 Two other key elements for hardcore drummers are playing "tight" with the other musicians, especially the bassist (this does not mean metronomic time; indeed coordinated tempo shifts are used in many important hardcore albums) and the drummer should have listened to a lot of hardcore, so that she or he can understand the "raw emotions" it expresses.Lucky Lehrer, the drummer and co-founder of the Circle Jerks in 1979, was an early developer of hardcore drumming; he has been called the "Godfather of hardcore drumming" and "Flipside" zine calls him the best punk drummer.According to Tobias Hurwitz, '[h]ardcore drumming falls somewhere between the straight-ahead rock styles of old-school punk and the frantic, warp-speed bashing of thrash."