 In 1947 it was discovered to be the same as the mineral ramsayite (now a synonym of lorenzenite), discovered in the 1920s in the Kola peninsula of Russia.It is also found in northern Canada.It occurs in nepheline syenites and pegmatites in association with aegirine, nepheline, microcline, arfvedsonite, elpidite, loparite, eudialyte, astrophyllite, mangan-neptunite, lavenite, rinkite, apatite, titanite and ilmenite.