60731f9b_Comments_regarding_Forestfarm__Content
[Rating] Negative [Author] krowten (9 reviews) [Content] 
On Oct 7, 2009, krowten Greensburg, PA wrote: My experience with this company spans a number of years, but only a single purchase. My initial order arrived promptly but had a couple of tiny, inferior plants (among a half dozen different plants), both of which died. After an extensive email exchange with Ray, Ray agreed to replace the dead plant and issue a credit for the other. We agreed to wait for the next year before the replacement was sent, which was OK with me. The next year I was delighted to get a large, beautiful replacement plant, which survives and is doing well to this day. Two years after receiving the plant, it bloomed and set fruit. That is how I discovered that my replacement goumi was actually an autumn olive. While both species bloom in similar time frames, goumi fruits ripen in spring and early summer while autumn olive fruits ripen in the late fall. I emailed Ray back again, initiating another email exchange. Ray basically said he would have to check his stock to verify what I said was correct, which I suppose is reasonable, but that frustrated me as it should be obvious to anybody working with these plants what the difference is and that there is a problem with the goumi stock. A nursery raising these plants should pick up on the fruiting time difference. Well, Ray emailed back confirming that his stock of goumi was actually autumn olive. He indicated that his seed supplier must have sent him the wrong seed. Here again, while similar in appearance, autumn olive seed are significantly smaller than goumi seed (about half the size or slightly less) so I felt that this error should have been caught at the beginning. At this point in time, I also realized that goumi started from seed usually does not supply the same quality as named lines started via cuttings, something I had not picked up on during my initial purchase. Ray indicated that he would take care of the problem and I was expecting to see a goumi plant the following spring. However I have heard nothing from him nor received anything in the past two years. I've debated making a comment here for some time, not sure what to do. After all, there was an effort made to fix the original problem, which I did greatly appreciate. However, shipping misidentified plants can be a big problem for all of us and I've been disappointed for a long time with my experience with Forest Farm. You can invest years and much effort in a plant to later find it is not what you wanted. I am disappointed that this problem was neglected and ignored but I also wonder how many others may have gotten an autumn olive instead of a goumi and did not realize the problem. On October 7th, 2009, krowten added the following: I just noticed this update from Forest Farm and wanted to respond to Ray's rebuttal. First of all, I am not happy with Ray's lack of discretion by posting the text of what should have been a private email exchange between the two parties to resolve this issue. I was trying to be fair about this problem, obviously conflicted, and really didn't know whether I wanted anything from Forest Farm at this point in time, as the issue was long past for me. Yet Ray, stating his concern for Forest Farm's reputation, seemed to me more concerned about his reputation at Dave's than trying to satisfy a customer or prevent problems from happening. I felt that I was being pressured by Ray to make a decision that I wasn't prepared to make. And that is precisely the point. I stopped pursuing the problem with Forest Farm initially, partially out of frustration of dealing with Ray's e-mails, e-mail style, and communications. Then, after deciding to post my concerns, was again pressured by Ray to agree to his solution. Ray's expressed concern that I should have contacted him first, before posting, is simply not valid - he was contacted regarding the problem but did not follow through. Ray, a simple apology for being missed and an offer to make amends was really all that was necessary and really all that was necessary to say in your rebuttal. I understand that mistakes happen in business. A good faith effort to fix them goes a long way. Yet, you felt the need to take our communications public and push for your solution which does not solve the issue from my point of view. I am now more frustrated and unhappy with Forest Farm than I was before. Had you simply answered my questions privately and asked me to update my feedback with a note that we were working to resolve the issue, I would have done so. By responding in the way you chose to do, you tried to show that I was not responding to you, even after you were told that I wanted some time to think about it. Taking this public was an effort to push the problem on me after Forest Farm had made a simple, but significant mistake. It was not necessary and, in my opinion, not good customer relations. For the record, Ray decided to send me a refund check. I have not yet decided whether it will get cashed. Despite an impressive catalog and some stock that appears to only be available from Forest Farm, it is highly unlikely they will receive additional business from me. And, no, I will not change my rating after seeing this latest posting from Ray. Oh, and some advice to all: If you decide to do business with Forest Farm, be aware that they feel they have the right to publish any private communications that you might have with them. I have not checked to see if their web site has a privacy policy, but many ethical companies respect the privacy of their customers and their communications. While many Dave's subscribers know my name, my handle is krowten for public postings. On Oct 7, 2009, Forestfarm responded with: "On Aug 23, 2009 10:15 AM, Forestfarm responded with: Four weeks have now passed since [name removed by customer request] posting, and we havent been able to get the information we need from him to make things right. So its time to post a rebuttal. Were guilty (sort of) as charged. Yes, [name removed by customer request] replacement Goumi did not get sent to him, although it was not forgotten. It just slipped through the cracks. We wish that [name removed by customer request] would have come to us directly, of course, rather than post a negative rating. Although we try hard to please everyone, with thousands of customers, and only limited brain power to remember all the things that need to be done, omissions sometimes happen. I D-mailed [name removed by customer request] immediately (on Sunday) after his post. After not receiving a response for several days, we went into our storage to pull out the papers from his last order, so I could contact him directly. It turns out the phone number he had then was no longer valid for him, but I was able to reach him via email. Ill paste the exchanges below. I immediately replied to you through Dave's Garden, but apparently you haven't read my email. We did not have your email in our computer any longer, but went into our storage area and found your last order, which gave me this email address. I hope it is current so that you will receive the message that I'm pasting below. Thank you, Ray I certainly can't blame you for posting a negative rating about Forestfarm. You have been more than patient. Please know that you have my humble apology. The funny thing is that the Goumi for you has popped into my mind over the past few years, and I wondered whether we had solved the problem. I even asked the office staff about it, but during the busy shipping season, no one had time to look. I guess I assumed that we had taken care of you, because it had been in my mind, and I had wanted to follow through. But I didn't have a way to check without having your name in front of me, and the old emails have been deleted by our tech consultant. I also assumed (and hoped!) that since I didn't hear from you again, we had fulfilled our obligation. Wrong, I guess, and I'm sorry. We got rid of the batch of plants that turned out to be autumn olive, and got true Goumi again, particularly with you in mind. I can only apologize for not sending you one when we were supposed to. As to the seed question you raise, we tend to believe what our suppliers tell us, unless the plants turn out to be different, which may not be noticed until years later. It might be possible to note the difference in the seed size, as you mention, but it is not likely something that the staff would have noticed when planting those seeds. We might have wished that to be the case, but it's just not something that happened. Ordinarily, if we need to ship a replacement plant to someone, which does happen occasionally (we're certainly not perfect, and although we try hard not to make mistakes, they happen), we will put an order in the computer for the next feasible time to do so. Unfortunately, with the Goumi, we had to wait two growing seasons for the new crop to be ready, and that's how your order slipped through the cracks. We had no way to put in an order for shipment that far in advance. So your paperwork got put into a file, and that's where it stayed. The only thing we can do now, except apologize profusely, is to save one of the large 3-4') 1-gal. size Goumis to ship to you in fall, when the weather cools sufficiently to permit safe shipping. If it would please you, we actually could ship one to you now via Air, and absorb the extra $22 in Air shipping costs (whatever we can do to make you happy). We are at your mercy. Please tell me what we can do to make amends, by replying directly to me at plants@forestfarm.com. Thanks, Ray [name removed by customer request] wrote: Ray, Thank you for your email. Frankly I did get your email on Dave's Garden and did not respond immediately because I just didn't know my own mind or how to answer your questions. To answer a couple questions specifically: 1) I do not want you to ship air at this time. I think that would be unreasonable for me to expect you to do this. 2) I do not want you to ship a goumi for fall. I have pursued goumi's from other sources and lost a couple during spring leaf break. I think it important that they have the growing season to establish. 3) I would like to know, although none of my business, if you notified other recipients of the goumi that were autumn olive - I think I ran into someone on Dave's who had an AO but thought it was a goumi. I need some time to think this through a bit. I was not expecting to hear from you, although I knew this was a possiblity. Thanks [name removed by customer request] Thank you for responding. I am glad that you were able to read my response to you. The most important thing to me is to make you happy, after the disappointment you've been through. If you think that a Goumi could establish before winter if we shipped it to you now, via Air, I would be willing to do so. I feel bad enough about you waiting this long that whatever it costs us to make amends is what I'm willing to do. Please don't see it as an unreasonable expectation. We could not be sure which plants were for certain A.O. and which might have been Goumi, as the plants from several seed batches had been mixed. When we heard from someone that they may have gotten an A.O., we replaced it without question. Sent on Aug. 2: I haven't heard from you after my last email to you, so please tell me if you will be around this week to receive a Goumi, and which address we should ship it to. We will send one via Air to arrive toward the end of the week. Please understand that your posting on the Garden Watchdog stings, and I need to do whatever I can to make things right for you. Thanks, Ray Sent on Aug. 8: We would really like to be able to send the goumi to you this week, but haven't heard from you as to which address we can send it to. Please let me know so that we can close this chapter. Thanks, Ray We have not heard from [name removed by customer request] again. We dont know to what address we could ship the plant. The only thing we can do now is give him a refund for the plant, which we have done. Ray"
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