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I m David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick.
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Now, I like to think that in making this podcast, I m slowly learning to understand the customs and ways of the American people.
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And I am making progress.
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I m tipping correctly, and if I m horribly injured, I feel somewhat prepared for the trials and tribulations of the healthcare system.
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I m also getting used to getting a side of fries with everything, and the fact that you call fries fries and not chips.
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However, other things are more subtle and difficult to wrap my head around.
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And I realise that decades in New Zealand means that fitting into the United States is riddled with danger at every turn.
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Something that became painfully clear during the tipping episode of Flightless Bird.
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Let s rewind to September 6th.
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It was a Tuesday.
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Good.
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And I m really happy we ve settled at the 20.
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This is a good place to be.
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20 is a great place to be.
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Mainly just because I can do the maths.
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Maths isn t my strong suit.
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And thank God it s not some other amount.
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Okay.
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And also in America, it s math singular.
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What?
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Oh God.
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What?
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You do math.
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Are you being serious?
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No, I think this is probably just me being uneducated in general.
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I think it s probably the same in New Zealand.
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Okay.
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I would say I m bad at maths, but it should be I m bad at math.
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No.
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That s what you said.
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You said maths a couple of times and I thought you were joking.
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Oh, that s what I ve said my entire life.
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No.
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No, this is me.
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Okay, it s math, singular.
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Okay, thank you for this education.
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Monica absolutely roasted me for the way I talked about mathematics.
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My whole life, I d said maths.
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But here in America, it s math, no S. I panicked in the moment, backing down instantly, scampering away like a crab running under a rock.
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Dax noticed too.
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This was our conversation on an armchair expert that I accidentally gate crashed.
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Okay, so we re not here to talk about the way you say math or maths or how quickly you concede to a counterpoint.
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What?
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Can I just double down that- It s math?
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You have to say math in America.
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Of all the topics I ve delved into on Flightless Bird, religion, tipping, the healthcare system, it was this one word that elicited a tidal wave of feedback and raging debate.
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My inbox was filled to the brim, people fizzing from the bunghole with screens of math and maths.
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I d hit some kind of pressure point, not only in the United States, but across the entire planet.
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I wanted to find out what the confusion came from, and more importantly, who was right and who was wrong.
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So get your ruler, protractor, set square, compass and calculator, and don t forget to sharpen that pencil.
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Because this is the maths.
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Ah, fuck.
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Math.
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Math.
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This is the mathematics episode.
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Do you feel like this is going to be an attack?
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I feel defensive.
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That whole math maths thing marked a very seminal moment in Cinnamon s path and armchair umbrella.
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It s happened with you and I. There s a pivotal moment.
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I know what you re going to say.
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Where the new face is liked more than the introductory face.
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Oh!
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Ouch!
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I did not expect that to be the end of that sentence.
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Basically, what I learned in that is that people are willing to skewer you and I because they love David so much.
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That s my point.
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Very seminal moment.
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Monica s looking for a very dark look.
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Because I don t like to not be liked, so ouch.
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But it s also a seminal moment for you.
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It s a passing of the torch.
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Do you know how much shit I ve gotten on your behalf?
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I mean, do you know how many people have come for my head?
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Well, also, same about you.
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People are very passionate.
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And when people think a point, they go all the way in.
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And this is the internet in general.
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There s no one out there saying, oh, there was a difference of opinion.
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It s like picking sides and it s a war, which I secretly really like when it s about something as funny as language.
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I agree.
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But people in other countries, look, this is a show about America and I stand by, I stand by.
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In America, you say meth.
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And you were very clear about that.
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And this episode is going to be a big battle and it s going to be a fight.
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But I also want to say that you did very specifically say, in America, this is what you say.
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And that was new information to me.
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And so I appreciated getting that information.
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I m not ready to leave the emotional point.
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There s an emotional thing that happened, which is really beautiful, which is for at least this show, we introduced you to the listeners and the listeners were like, fuck you too.
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I m team David Farrier.
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That s a beautiful moment.
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And I don t want to skim over it.
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It felt good, right?
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It felt really good.
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Yeah.
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It s like, you re going to meet up with some friends at an amusement park and you bring a stranger, right?
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And then midway through, you re like, I m in the mood for hot dogs.
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The friend you brought that was a stranger to the other people says, I want pizza.
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And then the other gang goes, yeah, we re going with Mike to get pizza.
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And you re like, Whoa, that flipped.
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Yeah.
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When did that show?
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I hate that guy.
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Why?
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Because you should be loyal.
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I think it s a beautiful moment for David.
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What I loved about this is that when you re doing a podcast, and this is my first experience doing this, you don t know what is going to cut through into people s very core.
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And I thought episode one, religion, megachurches, God, why we re here.
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I thought that would create some craziness.
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It was like crickets, people listen to it.
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They re like, okay.
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What s really staggering when you enter is like how religious the country is.
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So that s maybe the downside.
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But then the upside is we ve also been hearing this goddamn debate since we were born in this country.
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Yeah, like I think we re kind of immune to it.
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Yeah, this is a new debate.
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Math and maths, people s imaginations were just ignited and everyone, I guess everyone could speak on it as well.
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It s a new technology, maths.
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Maths is like a whole new technology.
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Oh no, now you re going to say it.
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Oh God, no.
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It sounds ridiculous.
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Exactly.
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Oh, it s preposterous.
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None of the disciplines do you pluralize.
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We re going to get into this.
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We go some places.
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We re going to go on a real journey.
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Okay.
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But I did want to find out whether Monica was alone in this.
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She wasn t.
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Do you say math or maths?
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Math or mathematics.
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That s what we say.
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In New Zealand we put an S on the end.
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We all say maths.
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No.
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No S. Don t ask me to pronounce it.
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My pronunciation is horrible.
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Do you say math or maths?
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Math.
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Would you ever say maths or is it always math?
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Math.
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Math.
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Math.
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Math.
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Can t get used to it.
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It s always been math for me.
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Yeah, always been math.
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Math.
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You say mathematics, so why are you dropping the S when you shorten it to math?
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That s a good question.
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There s probably an answer somewhere, but I don t know it.
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I say math.
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You never say maths?
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I haven t, but I listened to the episode and I think everyone else does, so I m on your side on this one.
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I really appreciate that, that s really good.
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Motherfuck!
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Well, definitely, it s not maths-matics.
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Well, that s also a good one.
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Yeah, like, so we re taking the first part.
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If we took the second part, we might say matics, if it was an abbreviation in that way.
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But it s not appropriate to add the S from the end of the word to the middle of the word.
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OK, you say mathematics because under the umbrella of mathematics, you have addition, subtraction, division, multiplication, algebra, trigonometry.
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This is the field of mathematics.
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When you use the term math, you say, I just did the math.
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Do the math.
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You re talking about addition.
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You re not talking about the full spectrum of mathematics.
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It is always implied exactly what element of the mathematics umbrella you re talking about.
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You know, you got to deduct what he owes you.
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Do the math.
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You mean subtraction.
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You don t mean plural.
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You don t mean many different things.
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What do you say when you re at school in America and you re off to maths class?
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math.
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You don t say, I m off to mathematics.
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You say, I m going to math.
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I have math next, is what you would say.
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But if you say I m off to math, that means you re doing one thing.
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You just have to do some adding.
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We re doing adding today.
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If you re going to math in high school, you have algebra, you have trigonometry, you have geometry.
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You re not going into a general philosophical debate about mathematics as a historical discipline.
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It s one thing.
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I can see.
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No, that makes perfect sense.
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It also elicits so much fear in me because I truly hated the subject, mathematics, and I still get those dreams where I am at the end of the school year and I ve got the big maths exam coming up, math exam coming up.
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And I realize I haven t gone to any of the classes all year and I know nothing.
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And that is the stress stream that has never, ever gone away.
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Oh, wow.
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Interesting.
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Okay.
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So math ends at seventh grade here, typically.
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language and why we are doing what we re doing.
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Okay.
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Lego, if you asked the company, I ll give you that.
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I will give you that.
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That s a different thing.
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That s a company.
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But I feel a few things.
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Interesting that you, Dax, started this conversation by making it emotional.
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Because I am now.
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It was the Fast and Furious song.
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Well, I don t read the comments.
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So hearing some of those, well, the very nice one, the woman who stuck up for me, that person obviously reads the comments.
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And that means that there are a lot of comments about how I speak to you.
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Well, I think in that moment, not in general, it kind of sounds like for all the people that don t like the way Monica talks to David.
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No, it was around this debate.
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This math thing went bonkers.
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It s so bonkers that that s why she s making that reference to all the people.
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When I used to look at them for armchair, there was a slew of that exact same sentiment about, I put you down and Jax is always elevating Monica and she s always putting him down.
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And that is my job here.
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is to offer a different opinion.
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I think we re not so used to a woman saying, hey, that s wrong, or, hey, I m presenting this and meeting a tall, white, charismatic, charming man that now there are two.
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Which one?
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Exactly.
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Now I have two.
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And it bums me out.
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Oh, I m scared.
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But you really think that this specific example is sexism?
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I think you re a lot more assertive than David.
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I m a lot more assertive than David.
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David is much more likely to acquiesce.
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Forget sexist, like he is so much more acquiescent than you and I are.
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It s my New Zealand way.
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We re the pilots from New York city, uh, flying out of Teterboro.
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Like we ll go, we re getting on the fucking plan on it, you know?
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And I think that s what it is.
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If it s not, I m not, I get those random, by the way, I get those too.
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It s like Dex, why won t you let Monica have a nicer seat?
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Dex, why won t you?
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It s like all these, I m the big, bad white male.
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That s not letting you do stuff.
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You re going to get a handful of people that can only see the world through the lens of that.
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Right.
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You were like, that s crazy.
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As I would have said, and then he just moved on sheepishly.
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And I think people felt sad for him.
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It was a perfect storm.
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That he didn t defend himself.
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It was a perfect storm.
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It s not a comment really, I think, on your aggressiveness as much as they felt bad he didn t defend himself.
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That s fine.
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If it s just about this conversation, sure.
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Great.
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But I m worried that there are more about just the way that we communicate.
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And I am more aggressive than you.
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It s so funny because I thought if we had any problem on the podcast, it was that we re agreeing with each other too much.
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I always think we re too much in the same boat.
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I m like, oh no, will people just think we ve got two people with the same brain?
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So the idea that there s a perceived conflict about maths and maths, I just found it very funny.
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And I don t want you to feel sad about it.
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Don t feel sad.
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Anyone fighting about math or maths, I mean, it s just all so funny.
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It is funny.
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I just worried about a deeper issue that is old from me and you.
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If I see that replaying, I don t like it.
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The thing that I ve found very interesting about the show is what people think it is.
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So the biggest insult I ll get tagged in about anything I do will always be like, and you call yourself a journalist and you said that.
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SPEAKER_00
It s interesting because I don t see the show as journalism.
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SPEAKER_00
I see it as kind of a quirky, interesting, me sort of wandering and sort of meeting people and learning.
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And I sort of know nothing.
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SPEAKER_00
And I know a little bit more at the end, but I definitely don t know everything.
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SPEAKER_00
But it s funny, some people like to go to that sort of wanting a news team approach where I m sort of a well-resourced machine going out and getting every angle and everything completely.
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SPEAKER_00
And if I leave a fact out, it s like you call yourself a journalist.
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SPEAKER_00
You didn t mention this aspect of porn.
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SPEAKER_00
It s like it s like a sort of an hour we make every week and it s sort of delightful and weird, but it s not journalism.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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No, nor are you claiming it s journalism.
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But by the way, people are just very adept at figuring out the one thing they think they can best you in an argument with.
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SPEAKER_01
So yours is not very journalistic of you.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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It s comical, but that s just going to be a go-to.
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So for you, that s an easy go-to that s sitting there on the table.
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SPEAKER_01
If they didn t like your opinion on pornography, that s just an easy go for the knees shot.
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SPEAKER_01
I also have to just really quickly compare this to the Howard Stern show, which I know you guys don t listen to.
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SPEAKER_01
I ve listened to it a few times.
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I get the vibe.
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The notion that people are defending anyone in this room because we re being bullied is hysterical relative to the Howard Stern show.
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SPEAKER_01
Like I can t imagine what the commenters saying there.
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They re downright cruel to each other.
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SPEAKER_01
They re fucking with each other.
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They re telling each other they got fired.
3
SPEAKER_01
They re,
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faking deaths, 12 of them gang up on some guy until he finally blows up.
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SPEAKER_01
And that s the show.
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SPEAKER_01
The show is like this funny, it s the funny tension between this group of people that basically live together.
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You know, that s the story of the show.
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SPEAKER_02
But it s a lot of men.
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I mean, there s Robin, but I don t know if she s a part of the, like the nagging.
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And so for me, it feels way worse.
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I don t know if it s sexist, but it feels worse to be the
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the woman who people are saying is naggy or putting the men down in the room when I m just doing what everyone else is doing.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, absolutely.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, if that s ever a criticism, it s a completely mad criticism.
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And maybe it s not there.
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SPEAKER_00
But it s also built into culture in general.
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SPEAKER_00
So it s in the world in general.
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SPEAKER_00
So it s going to be elements of that everywhere, right?
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SPEAKER_01
But I also feel like you find a woman s personality aggressive, like you would find a man s aggressive.
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SPEAKER_01
Do you have to assume?
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SPEAKER_01
Well, I only mind her aggressiveness because she s a woman.
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SPEAKER_02
If you like a man s aggression, yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
But I don t think anyone likes aggressive, period.
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SPEAKER_02
Yes, they do.
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They like strong men with opinions who come in with confidence and are eloquent and able to speak them.
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SPEAKER_02
And if a woman comes in, they re not given that same level of respect inherently.
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SPEAKER_00
I mean, unless there s more chance there s going to be a nag as opposed to assertiveness.
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unless they re cozy and sweet and can package it up perfectly so that it s palatable.
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SPEAKER_02
I don t know.
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Anyway, I also think that you did this to help me.
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SPEAKER_02
I hear that.
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I see that.
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And I appreciate that.
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Yeah, whilst I did sort of picture it as being a war, I also want it to be a bridge-building exercise.
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Well, what s really funny is like, so throughout that whole piece, I would latch on to something like, well, okay, so we have it right, because it started with math.
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SPEAKER_01
Also, it s from the Latin, and A is the plural, or a vowel at the end is the plural, and there is no S. And then we immediately start contradicting our own rule.
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SPEAKER_01
Whether it s Legos or that s what s great.
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It s like nobody even has a rule they re following consistently.
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SPEAKER_01
Oh, it s chaos.
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SPEAKER_01
It s total chaos.
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SPEAKER_01
That s what I love about this.
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SPEAKER_01
I do want to say the Lego thing.
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SPEAKER_01
What I think happens with Legos, first and foremost, I can t believe in Michigan that we don t say maths.
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SPEAKER_01
We put an S on everything.
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SPEAKER_01
Kroger s, Target s, Walmart s, everything s got an S. I think the Lego thing in this country suffers from whatever that term is where you come to know the product as the brand name Kleenex.
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SPEAKER_01
We only say Kleenex, we say Xerox.
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SPEAKER_01
I don t think I ve ever thought that those were Lego brand bricks.
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SPEAKER_01
The brick itself is a Lego.
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SPEAKER_01
No one s ever said a Lego brick in my entire life.
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SPEAKER_01
The brick itself is called a Lego.
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SPEAKER_00
So even a knockoff brand would still be a Lego block.
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SPEAKER_01
You d even say like, do you see the huge Legos they re making in some other brand?
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SPEAKER_01
Like they make these big Legos.
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SPEAKER_01
Sounds exciting.
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SPEAKER_01
Cause there were, they were, what is it?
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SPEAKER_01
Duplo.
3
SPEAKER_01
Duplo.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Those are just big, big Legos.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
For kids.
3
SPEAKER_01
Right.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then you would never say I m going to play Lego.
3
SPEAKER_01
Cause that to me would mean you re going to take one brick and start playing with it.
3
SPEAKER_01
We re talking about
3
SPEAKER_01
All the bricks.
3
SPEAKER_01
We call the items Legos.
3
SPEAKER_01
We don t realize that s the brand name.
3
SPEAKER_02
Can you get me a blue Lego and then a green Lego?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes, we would say it then.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s so funny.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I m gonna play Legos.
3
SPEAKER_01
Legos are the noun.
3
SPEAKER_00
I also really like Lego.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m one of those pathetic adults that still will buy Lego sets.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so the other day someone texted me and I was like, I wanted them to think I was cool.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, what are you doing?
3
SPEAKER_00
And I, what I was doing was sat there playing Lego.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I just had a moment where I m 39.
3
SPEAKER_00
I sort of, you know, when you capture sort of how pathetic a certain aspect of your life is.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I m sort of sitting there with my instruction manual, crawling around the floor trying to find the bit.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, what is this?
3
SPEAKER_00
Is this what I should be using my time to do?
3
SPEAKER_00
And I tell you, when that spaceship was built, I felt so proud.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s so cool.
3
SPEAKER_02
I think it s fine.
3
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, the only thing I object to is using the instructions.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s the only part to me that s not as embarrassing or pathetic.
3
SPEAKER_00
You see how complicated this set was.
3
SPEAKER_02
I have a friend s set and it just sits because I don t play with Legos.
3
SPEAKER_02
So I would love for somebody to build it for me.
3
SPEAKER_01
I ll come and build it.
3
SPEAKER_02
Do you want to come over and play Legos?
3
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
3
SPEAKER_01
You gotta say they ll play Lego.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re right.
3
SPEAKER_01
I ll say it right.
3
SPEAKER_01
And have wine.
3
SPEAKER_02
But you know what I say?
3
SPEAKER_01
But I mean wine.
4
SPEAKER_05
I say, do you say I m going to go play Legos?
4
SPEAKER_05
I d say I m going to go play with Legos.
4
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_03
Not play with Lego.
4
SPEAKER_03
Want to build some Lego together this weekend?
4
SPEAKER_03
Oh wow.
4
SPEAKER_03
Lego.
4
SPEAKER_02
All right.
4
SPEAKER_02
So I ve got a little bit more of this documentary.
4
SPEAKER_02
You thought this was over?
4
SPEAKER_02
It s not over.
4
SPEAKER_02
There s more.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s 3am and I m wide awake.
4
SPEAKER_02
Dean s words are echoing through my head.
4
SPEAKER_03
No one s wrong in this.
4
SPEAKER_02
No one s wrong in this.
4
SPEAKER_02
No one s wrong in this.
4
SPEAKER_02
And when it comes to language, maths and math, he s right, I get that.
4
SPEAKER_02
But these differences between America and the rest of the world have consequences.
4
SPEAKER_02
Because thinking about how I say mathematics got me thinking about numbers and how we use them in America.
4
SPEAKER_02
More specifically, how we use numbers and measurement.
4
SPEAKER_02
And so when the sun finally came up and the weird American birds started calling, I went for a walk.
4
SPEAKER_02
and started talking to people along the way.
4
SPEAKER_02
How many ounces in a pound?
4
SPEAKER_02
Sixteen.
4
SPEAKER_02
Good job.
4
SPEAKER_02
Sixteen.
4
SPEAKER_04
Oh, in a pound?
4
SPEAKER_04
I have no idea.
4
SPEAKER_02
I m talking to people about units of measurement because American measurements make no sense to me.
4
SPEAKER_02
In New Zealand, like most of the modern world, we use the metric system.
4
SPEAKER_02
But America is stuck in the Dark Ages.
4
SPEAKER_02
Inches, feet, yards, miles.
4
SPEAKER_02
Ounces, stones, pounds.
4
SPEAKER_03
Sixteen ounces in a pound.
4
SPEAKER_02
16.
4
SPEAKER_02
16.
4
SPEAKER_02
How many ounces in a pound?
4
SPEAKER_04
I don t know.
4
16?
4
32?
4
SPEAKER_02
28?
4
SPEAKER_02
Look, most people I bummed into knew how many ounces were in a pound.
4
16.
4
16.
4
SPEAKER_03
16.
4
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, 16.
4
16.
4
SPEAKER_02
But what about how many pounds in a stone?
4
SPEAKER_02
How many pounds in a stone?
4
SPEAKER_02
Is that a trick question?
4
SPEAKER_02
Couldn t tell you.
4
SPEAKER_05
Okay, so my ex-boyfriend is Scottish and we ve had this conversation even he doesn t know.
4
SPEAKER_02
How many do you think?
4
SPEAKER_05
I thought it was seven.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s 14.
4
SPEAKER_05
I had half of it.
4
SPEAKER_05
Darn it.
4
SPEAKER_02
Oh, man, hold on.
4
60?
4
SPEAKER_02
No, it s like 14 or 13.7.
4
SPEAKER_02
You re the first person to get 14.
4
SPEAKER_02
Correct.
4
SPEAKER_02
Wow.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, there are 14 pounds in a stone.
4
14.
4
SPEAKER_02
Why?
4
SPEAKER_02
There were 16 ounces in a pound, so of course logically there are 14 pounds in a stone.
4
SPEAKER_02
Makes perfect sense.
4
SPEAKER_02
Look, to be fair, America doesn t really do stones.
4
SPEAKER_02
That wasn t yet part of the imperial system when the 13 colonies began, apparently.
4
SPEAKER_02
But my point is, the imperial system s rubbish.
4
SPEAKER_02
You guys need to get the metric system.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s really good.
4
SPEAKER_05
I used to share cooking and everything was both the metric and then there was the part for the Americans.
4
SPEAKER_05
That s how I would put it.
4
SPEAKER_05
Even though I m an American and I m from California, there s for the smart people and there s for us.
4
SPEAKER_02
She s being self-deprecating.
4
SPEAKER_02
Americans, please don t murder me.
4
SPEAKER_02
You re as smart or as dumb as anyone is.
4
SPEAKER_02
But what s going on here?
4
SPEAKER_02
Most of the planet uses the metric system, the most up-to-date version is known as the International System of Units, where everything operates in multiples of ten.
4
SPEAKER_02
Makes sense.
4
SPEAKER_02
When you adopt the metric system, it s known as metrication.
4
SPEAKER_02
Every nation in the world has metricated.
4
SPEAKER_02
Every nation except Myanmar, Liberia, and the United States of America.
4
SPEAKER_02
As Dean from earlier puts it, America s fully dived into the Kool-Aid of the imperial system.
4
SPEAKER_03
The imperial stormtroopers.
4
SPEAKER_02
The imperial system is just objectively bonkers.
4
SPEAKER_02
Back in 2018, Twitter user Ains pointed out the crazy in a series of tweets.
4
SPEAKER_02
I ll paraphrase, but it went like this.
4
SPEAKER_02
There are 16 ounces in a pound.
4
16?
4
SPEAKER_02
What kind of number is that?
4
SPEAKER_02
Guess how many pounds are in a stone.
4
SPEAKER_02
You ll never guess.
4
SPEAKER_02
Fourteen.
4
SPEAKER_02
Maths has clearly abandoned us.
4
SPEAKER_02
Numbers mean nothing at this point.
4
SPEAKER_02
How many ounces in a cup?
4
SPEAKER_02
Eight.
4
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
4
SPEAKER_02
Whatever you say, America.
4
SPEAKER_02
Twelve inches in a foot and three feet in a yard and one thousand seven hundred and sixty yards in a mile.
4
SPEAKER_02
What?
4
SPEAKER_02
Continuing on my walk, which I was attempting to calculate in yards, I was feeling increasingly unhinged.
4
SPEAKER_02
It was at that moment I met a recent graduate who threw more chaos into my already fragile brain.
4
SPEAKER_00
And there s also the association with math with either red binders or blue binders.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s a very big debate.
4
SPEAKER_00
So if you ask most high school or college students, what color is math associated with, half of them will say red and half of them will say blue.
4
SPEAKER_04
What do you say?
4
SPEAKER_00
I say blue.
4
SPEAKER_04
Same, me too.
4
SPEAKER_04
English is red.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, and science is always green.
4
SPEAKER_04
History is yellow.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so we kind of color coordinated all the subjects based on the binder we used for them in like middle school or high school.
4
SPEAKER_02
This is amazing.
4
SPEAKER_02
And do you think that differs school to school or state to state?
4
SPEAKER_00
I think it s based on school because everyone in your school did one thing.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so if you were doing something else, everybody would point it out or like make fun of you in a joking way.
4
SPEAKER_00
So everyone just kind of conformed to the one color.
4
SPEAKER_02
I guess everyone has laptops now, but when I was at school we did have books we d write in.
4
SPEAKER_02
But they weren t coloured because we d put Duracell on them.
4
SPEAKER_02
Do you have Duracell in America?
4
SPEAKER_02
I don t even know.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s like a sticky pattern paper you d seal over your books so they wouldn t get too dog-eared.
4
SPEAKER_02
So you d tell what subject each book was for, whether your Duracell showed a pod of dolphins or a montage of sheep or whatever.
4
SPEAKER_00
I ve also heard there s a space shuttle that blew up.
4
SPEAKER_02
What?
4
SPEAKER_02
A bombshell.
4
SPEAKER_02
The man went on, telling me a spaceship had blown up because someone forgot to convert from imperial into metric or vice versa.
4
SPEAKER_02
I had to find out more.
4
SPEAKER_01
So I m Omar.
4
SPEAKER_01
I majored in aerospace engineering.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s what I was really excited about.
4
SPEAKER_01
I came to the university in the US, but I originally was born in Egypt, lived in Dubai.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s my background.
4
SPEAKER_01
So I ve been used to the metric system.
4
SPEAKER_02
Omar, like me, was mystified by America s ways.
4
SPEAKER_02
Each day, he missed the metric system.
4
SPEAKER_01
When someone says it s 100 degrees Fahrenheit, I m like, that sounds hot.
4
SPEAKER_02
I don t know what that means though.
4
SPEAKER_02
Like me, Omar is used to Celsius, part of the International System of Units, that most recent version of the metric system.
4
SPEAKER_02
Zero degrees Celsius is freezing, a hundred is boiling.
4
SPEAKER_02
Simple.
4
SPEAKER_02
Anyway, I m talking to Omar because he s an aerospace engineer and knows about the incident NASA would prefer to forget.
4
SPEAKER_01
No one likes to blame one person at NASA.
4
SPEAKER_02
Back on December 11, 1998, NASA launched the Mars Climate Orbiter, which cost about $125 million to build.
4
SPEAKER_02
It was a space probe that would be used to discover the secrets of the Martian climate.
4
SPEAKER_02
Now, NASA is smart.
4
SPEAKER_02
They use the metric system, like a lot of American scientists do.
4
SPEAKER_02
But that doesn t mean all of NASA s American suppliers did.
4
SPEAKER_01
They still have to work with suppliers that are going to supply
4
SPEAKER_01
your 1 16th inch bolts and whatnot.
4
SPEAKER_01
And you have one supplier, Lockheed Martin.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s the main supplier.
4
SPEAKER_01
That is basically what people like to point as a source of the error.
4
SPEAKER_01
They were supplying data in what makes sense to them, US customary units.
4
SPEAKER_01
And so when they look at those results, they re like, this makes sense.
4
SPEAKER_01
We re good to go.
4
SPEAKER_01
We can move forward to the next stage of the project.
4
SPEAKER_01
But no one actually went ahead and said, let s make sure that when we re integrating this into the system, into the full orbiter, let s actually make this communicate in metric.
4
SPEAKER_01
That was where the real source of error came in.
4
SPEAKER_02
Basically, the nav team at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory used the metric system, while someone at Lockheed Martin in Colorado delivered very, very important information in pounds.
4
SPEAKER_02
And no one knew that.
4
SPEAKER_01
No.
4
SPEAKER_01
They have to use little thrusters that push it and rotate it back into the right orientation so that when it gets to Mars, it s in the orientation that they expect it to be.
4
SPEAKER_01
So those thrusters are giving you a force measurement and communicating that to the NASA team on the ground, mission control, essentially, so that they can predict the trajectory.
4
SPEAKER_01
Those forces are in pounds and they re assuming it s in Newtons or, you know, mass times gravity constant.
4
SPEAKER_01
So that s where the connection failed.
4
SPEAKER_02
Some pounds were not converted to newtons per square meter, and the Mars Climate Orbiter orbited too close to the Mars climate.
4
SPEAKER_02
The $125 million probe ignited in flames, exploded, and was never heard from again.
4
SPEAKER_02
All because someone didn t convert something to metric.
4
SPEAKER_02
There are other examples.
4
SPEAKER_02
In 83, a Boeing 767 ran out of fuel mid-flight because someone messed up a metric conversion.
4
SPEAKER_02
Luckily for the passengers, the pilot was also an avid glider pilot, and he glided that 767 100km to a landing strip.
4
SPEAKER_02
There are so many stories.
4
SPEAKER_02
Medical mishaps where sedatives were given in grains and not grams.
4
SPEAKER_02
My point is, I started this journey to discover the origin of the S in maths.
4
SPEAKER_02
You could argue it was all a case of math hysteria.
4
SPEAKER_02
But I d argue America s steadfastness in its grammar and units of measurements is no joke.
4
SPEAKER_02
Planes are running out of fuel and space shuttles are exploding in deep space.
4
SPEAKER_02
This is no laughing matter.
4
SPEAKER_02
Math, maths.
4
SPEAKER_02
Pounds and square meters.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s not hysteria.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s life and death.
4
SPEAKER_03
Did you find maths hysteria funny?
4
SPEAKER_01
I liked it.
4
SPEAKER_03
I missed it.
4
SPEAKER_03
It wasn t that I didn t think it was funny.
4
SPEAKER_03
I just heard maths hysteria.
4
SPEAKER_02
Sometimes when I m playing these documentaries to you guys, there s something I think s just out of genius.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I m looking at what you re doing and sometimes nothing.
4
SPEAKER_03
I feel devastated.
4
SPEAKER_03
Conversely, though, I m losing my mind over some areas you probably didn t see coming.
4
SPEAKER_03
And I m just glossing over completely.
4
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, like I had a couple of huge belly laughs that I don t think you saw coming.
4
SPEAKER_03
It s always a surprise.
4
SPEAKER_03
It s a roller coaster.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s what making a show is all about.
4
SPEAKER_03
It s like playing the guitar and
5
SPEAKER_02
staring at the person you re playing for.
5
SPEAKER_02
That s basically what he s doing, which is a big trigger for you.
5
SPEAKER_03
I m like, I think he never looks.
5
SPEAKER_03
He s always like looking.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but I ll flick.
5
SPEAKER_01
You d think that, but I m occasionally going, bang.
5
SPEAKER_01
Flicking my little eyes out to see what s going on over there.
5
SPEAKER_01
Darting them to and fro.
5
SPEAKER_01
My eyes are darting around all over the place all the time.
5
SPEAKER_02
What an incredible story about the NASA thing.
5
SPEAKER_02
I had not heard that.
5
SPEAKER_01
All because there was no conversion.
5
SPEAKER_03
I m going to start asking pilots, just making sure everything s been converted correctly.
5
SPEAKER_01
You re going to need a lot more liters than you need gallons.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
The temperature thing here, I agreed with Omar so strongly about during the heat wave in Los Angeles, people are like, Oh my God, it s a hundred, 120.
5
SPEAKER_01
And it s just like, okay, it s hot.
5
SPEAKER_01
But you run so excited and it just makes no sense to me.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I don t think it ever will.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, because there s like a mental hurdle for us.
5
SPEAKER_02
Once we go to triple digits, it means more.
5
SPEAKER_02
But for you, it d be the difference between like 38 and 39.
5
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, completely.
5
SPEAKER_02
Or something like that.
5
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_02
It just does not factor in.
5
SPEAKER_03
But that s not really emotional.
5
SPEAKER_03
You know, like it s emotional for us to hit triple digits, getting close to 100.
5
SPEAKER_03
Like everyone knows getting close to 100 is big deal in general, in school.
5
SPEAKER_03
Imagine when we all become 100.
5
SPEAKER_01
That ll be such a big deal.
5
SPEAKER_02
I don t know what it was like when you were growing up, but we made a big push in the 80s.
5
SPEAKER_02
Everyone was like, we gotta get on this metric system.
5
SPEAKER_02
And we had, in my elementary, every year we d have metric field day.
5
SPEAKER_02
And so we had all these events on the playground where you had to fill up a bucket with six liters of water, then you had to do the, you know, whatever it was, the 10 meter jump instead of the fucking, you know.
5
SPEAKER_02
Everything was done in meters and milliliters to help us.
5
SPEAKER_02
Didn t work.
5
SPEAKER_02
There was a real push to convert.
5
SPEAKER_02
And I honestly think by the end of the eighties, they were like, you know, fuck it.
5
SPEAKER_02
It s not going to happen.
5
SPEAKER_02
It s not taking earnest effort, but also England s still using standard.
5
SPEAKER_02
And we call it standard, by the way, imperial, whatever you were calling it.
5
SPEAKER_02
All right.
5
SPEAKER_02
Imperial system.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
We call it standard.
5
SPEAKER_01
Right.
5
SPEAKER_02
The other thing I want to say is I don t know how much it affects your average person.
5
SPEAKER_02
For me, as someone who has a lot of tools and works on stuff, it couldn t be more annoying.
5
SPEAKER_02
I have two entirely different sets of tools.
5
SPEAKER_02
I have every single socket in standard quarter inch, eighth inch, 16th inch, you know, three quarter inch.
5
SPEAKER_02
And then I have everything in millimeters.
5
SPEAKER_02
8 millimeter, 10 millimeter, 14.
5
SPEAKER_02
And why are you swapping?
5
SPEAKER_02
Because half the parts on the car, some are made in Japan with the metric system.
5
SPEAKER_02
Some are made here in the States with the standard system.
5
SPEAKER_02
But I m going from motorcycle to motorcycle.
5
SPEAKER_02
And as you add aftermarket parts, you don t know where.
5
SPEAKER_02
So you re constantly, as a mechanic, you re like, oh, that looks like it s a quarter.
5
SPEAKER_02
You go put it on there.
5
SPEAKER_02
It almost fits.
5
SPEAKER_02
It doesn t.
5
SPEAKER_02
Oh, I think that s 8 millimeter.
5
SPEAKER_01
Imagine making some sort of Mars orbiter.
5
SPEAKER_01
And you re dealing with those sort of conversions.
5
SPEAKER_01
Just on a bike, it would be crazy enough.
5
SPEAKER_01
It reminds me of that amazing story with that commercial airliner.
5
SPEAKER_01
There was an amazing documentary with bad special effects made about it.
5
SPEAKER_01
But an engineer used a bolt.
5
SPEAKER_01
The thread was just a tiny bit too small on the windscreen of this commercial liner.
5
SPEAKER_01
And as the plane was flying, it was up in the air, just doing its thing.
5
SPEAKER_01
We re filled with hundreds of people on this plane.
5
SPEAKER_01
It wasn t a tiny plane, big plane.
5
SPEAKER_01
Windscreen comes off.
5
SPEAKER_01
Windshield, we call it, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Gone.
5
SPEAKER_01
One of the pilots immediately gets yanked out with the pressure yanked out.
5
SPEAKER_01
But someone else in the cockpit, I believe it was a steward who had come through just to like check on things, had such lightning fast reactions, he grabbed their legs.
5
SPEAKER_01
No.
5
SPEAKER_01
And they basically landed the plane whilst the pilot was outside getting extreme frostbite freezing at that speed while the guy is getting frostbite from his hands just holding the guy s legs.
5
SPEAKER_01
And they landed that plane and everybody survived.
5
SPEAKER_03
No!
5
SPEAKER_03
He was able to hold on with that force.
5
SPEAKER_01
He dislocated his shoulder while he was trying to hold on because it was just so much force going on.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s the best and worst great result airline disaster story I ve ever heard about.
5
SPEAKER_03
Did somebody then hold on to his feet and somebody held, you know, it s like a big chain.
5
SPEAKER_02
Like a sandbag chain.
5
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_02
Scully gets all this attention.
5
SPEAKER_02
This person deserves to be celebrated.
5
SPEAKER_01
I wrote about it on webrun.
5
SPEAKER_01
With the show notes for this, I ll link to the story.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s an airline disaster that no one seems to know about, but it s the most incredible story I ve ever heard.
5
SPEAKER_02
I read about one similar as a Hawaiian flight from one island to the other and on those Hawaiian planes.
5
SPEAKER_02
Now, I don t want to scare anyone, but
5
SPEAKER_02
Let s say your average plane has 10,000 takeoffs and landings.
5
SPEAKER_02
I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_02
There s a very arbitrary number.
5
SPEAKER_02
Those island planes, they may take off and land 14 times in a day, right?
5
SPEAKER_02
So a four-year-old plane, they might have the equivalent of a 40-year-old plane takeoff and landing, whatever.
5
SPEAKER_02
There was a structural failure and the top of the fuselage ripped off over a whole section in the economy class.
5
SPEAKER_03
No, the top of the plane flew off.
5
SPEAKER_02
They were all of a sudden in a fucking convertible and several people, same thing got ripped out.
5
SPEAKER_02
That s why you always had to put your seatbelt on, but they did land that thing.
5
SPEAKER_02
Wow.
5
SPEAKER_02
After taking a convertible ride through the air.
5
SPEAKER_01
You think the whole thing would just be impossible, right?
5
SPEAKER_02
The whole thing would just... The force.
5
SPEAKER_02
I think that s when you understand all the structural integrity is in the wings.
5
SPEAKER_02
Just too much use on that plane.
5
SPEAKER_02
Too many takeoffs.
5
SPEAKER_03
So, ding, ding, ding, the pilots do need to know physics.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_03
So they remember physics.
5
SPEAKER_01
Do you say... Physics.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_03
We say, we say physics.
5
SPEAKER_02
Hey, this is a bridge.
5
SPEAKER_02
It also grows.
5
SPEAKER_02
It goes to show like, what are you focusing on?
5
SPEAKER_02
I mean, so much of the language we re speaking is identical.
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SPEAKER_02
There s so much more to be happy about.
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SPEAKER_01
There s only this handful of weird things.
5
SPEAKER_01
We should be celebrating our similarities, not the differences.
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SPEAKER_01
Although sometimes we should celebrate differences as well.
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SPEAKER_01
In the case of language.
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SPEAKER_01
Don t take that out of context.
5
2022.
5
SPEAKER_01
Uh-oh.
5
SPEAKER_01
God, can t win.
5
SPEAKER_01
All right.
5
There you go.
5
SPEAKER_03
Lego, that was really fun.
5
SPEAKER_03
I learned a lot.
5
SPEAKER_02
I did too.
5
SPEAKER_02
And what a turn it took with the whole metric system.
5
SPEAKER_02
That was thrilling.
5
SPEAKER_02
I will say also, I just want to add, I can do most of the conversions.
5
SPEAKER_02
I know a hundred kilometers an hour, 60 miles an hour.
5
SPEAKER_03
No, I can t do it at all.
5
SPEAKER_02
If you watch racing, you d care more probably.
5
SPEAKER_02
Or if you were into going high speeds, you know that there s three feet in a meter, right?
5
SPEAKER_02
We can do most of these things.
5
SPEAKER_02
A kilo is 2.2 pounds.
5
SPEAKER_02
We can multiply by 2.2.
5
SPEAKER_02
The conversion from Celsius to Fahrenheit is a fucking joke.
5
SPEAKER_02
It s like X minus 32 times seven over 31.
5
SPEAKER_02
There s some bizarre, I think it s 30 degrees Celsius.
5
SPEAKER_02
37.7 Celsius.
5
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_02
Zero is 32, which is fine.
5
SPEAKER_02
You go, Oh, I just add 32.
5
SPEAKER_02
No, because a hundred is two 12.
5
SPEAKER_03
I know.
5
SPEAKER_03
I don t get that.
5
SPEAKER_02
You follow me?
5
SPEAKER_02
Zeroes 32, but a hundred is two 12.
5
SPEAKER_02
So, so the formula to make both of those things work is very complicated.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Do you have it Rob?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Take the Fahrenheit amount minus 32 and then multiply it by five nines.
5
SPEAKER_00
Five nines.
5
SPEAKER_00
There we go.
5
SPEAKER_03
Five nights.
5
SPEAKER_03
Oh my God.
5
SPEAKER_03
This is obvious.
5
SPEAKER_03
I mean, I like the metric system.
5
SPEAKER_03
I m happy to go for it, but I d like to keep Fahrenheit.
5
SPEAKER_03
Cause I like the, you know, a hundred is extreme.
5
SPEAKER_02
I like that part too, but think how much they must like, like for us, 32 is insignificant.
5
SPEAKER_02
No one gets pumped when it s like, Oh, it s going to go to 31 tomorrow.
5
SPEAKER_03
Or like when it s 33, it s my 32nd birthday.
5
SPEAKER_03
Like that s a boring birthday, but a hundred.
5
SPEAKER_02
Well, okay.
5
SPEAKER_02
Still, but I want you to recognize that we gain something and we give up something.
5
SPEAKER_02
What we ve gained is going to a hundred.
5
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_02
It s awesome.
5
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_02
It s cool.
5
SPEAKER_02
So thrilling.
5
SPEAKER_02
Now going below 30, it s never on the news.
5
SPEAKER_02
Like we re going to hit 31 tomorrow.
5
SPEAKER_03
Right.
5
SPEAKER_02
Like that s our freezing.
5
SPEAKER_02
So we don t eventize freezing because it s 32 to 31.
5
SPEAKER_01
So important.
5
SPEAKER_02
I guarantee in Europe and everywhere, they re like, it s going to be negative one.
5
SPEAKER_02
It s like, Whoa, it s freezing.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s what we do in New Zealand on our weather.
5
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
5
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, but it means nothing to us. 31.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you get excited about the heat.
5
SPEAKER_01
We get excited about the extreme colds.
5
SPEAKER_03
But we live in Los Angeles.
5
SPEAKER_03
Freezing is not a thing.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s not for us.
5
SPEAKER_03
It s not for us.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s so hot here.
5
SPEAKER_03
I m suffering.
5
SPEAKER_02
I m always guzzling down this water.
5
SPEAKER_02
You just countered yourself.
5
SPEAKER_02
A minute ago, you were like, people like 101.
5
SPEAKER_02
I m like, it s a little hot.
5
SPEAKER_02
And now you re like, you re dying under the burden of this heat.
5
SPEAKER_03
Because he s becoming more American and Californian at that.
5
SPEAKER_03
Wow.
5
SPEAKER_02
Also, for someone who s complaining about the weather here so much, this motherfucker s been in shorts for like 300 of the last 310 days.
5
SPEAKER_02
I don t think you could do that in New Zealand.
5
SPEAKER_01
I have a really weird thing where my legs never get colds, but my top half always does get colds.
5
SPEAKER_01
So I could be in shorts all the time and it s not a problem.
5
SPEAKER_01
My top and my bottom have different things going on.
5
SPEAKER_03
Oh wow, you have different circulation?
5
SPEAKER_01
I also have one of those terrible things where I have really bad circulation to my hands.
5
SPEAKER_01
So I m nervous, my hands get very cold.
5
SPEAKER_01
And that can be like a social nightmare having to shake hands and something.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m always the cold clammy hand.
5
SPEAKER_01
I remember one time I had to meet Jessica
6
SPEAKER_01
to interview her in New Zealand when I just started in a newsroom, and my hands went like cold fish.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I had five minutes and I rushed into the urinal and just started blasting my hands with hot water to try and get them up for temp for Jess when she whipped in.
6
SPEAKER_01
What happened?
6
SPEAKER_01
is that somehow it got worse than just being like a cold fish.
6
SPEAKER_01
It became sweaty and there were layers of it.
6
SPEAKER_01
So when she finally shook my hand, she got an initial very hot sweat, and then she squeezed a bit, and I did a firm shake, because I want to say I m strong, firm shake.
6
SPEAKER_01
Then I think she pushed through and could feel the under, the cold core temp of my hand, which was icicle-like.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I think I saw her, I looked her sort of in the face because I knew it was going to be bad.
6
SPEAKER_01
But the look I got back is the one look you don t want to get from Jessica Alba and it was disgust.
6
SPEAKER_01
The hand that I presented to her was a mess.
6
SPEAKER_01
Fire and ice.
6
SPEAKER_01
Why am I saying this?
6
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
6
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes David accidentally tells us secrets and you have to take what you can get because he just refuses to share secrets.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m back in the cage again now.
6
SPEAKER_01
No more secrets.
6
SPEAKER_01
Am I more American?
6
SPEAKER_01
Slightly?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think you are because now you re going to start saying math and I m going to start saying Lego.
6
SPEAKER_00
We re going to meet in the middle.
6
SPEAKER_01
You re more Euro.
6
SPEAKER_01
He s more merry.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s right.
6
SPEAKER_01
Love you guys.
6
SPEAKER_00
Love you.