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SPEAKER_01
 when you're communicating with people again connection connection connection why does it matter and not that you want to be nice to people it's not about being nice it is about negotiating it's about communicating it's about connecting when you do all these things you will be
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SPEAKER_00
 Welcome to the School of Greatness.
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SPEAKER_00
My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur.
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And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness.
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SPEAKER_00
Thanks for spending some time with me today.
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Now let the class begin.
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SPEAKER_00
 So I'm curious, for people that I feel like they've lost their self-esteem and confidence, what are some things that people could do to really own their confidence again and build it back up?
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SPEAKER_01
Everything you're saying actually is true and I've seen it because I've had so many people reach out to ask about questions and there's a pattern.
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We're in a very fear-based place.
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 where people are very fear-based, very unsure of themselves, very unsure of their decisions.
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Even when we're seeing this mass exodus of people leaving work, you're seeing people almost re-evaluating themselves, trying to understand their lives.
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People are not as assertive or certain about a lot of things.
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They're not definitive, they're not clear.
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 They're not, it's very fear-based, very fear-based, I'm not sure, I'm afraid.
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I even see it in the classroom, I'm an adjunct lecturer and professor, and I teach criminal justice and criminology.
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So even in my classroom, I will see my students be afraid to raise their hand when I ask a question.
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Why, because they don't want to look silly or something?
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They don't want to be wrong.
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 And we're also in this space where people are afraid to say the wrong thing and be wrong.
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So it's fear in so many ways.
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So it's not just the physical fear of the body, the illnesses, the COVID, all that stuff.
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But it's also this fear of, what is the world going to think of me?
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How am I going to be labeled?
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And I will sit in class.
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I will ask a question.
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Nobody raises their hand because they don't want to be wrong.
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And then even when I can get them to speak,
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 You can see them speak in very hushed tones, very soft.
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I can barely hear them.
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And I tell them, own your answer.
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Don't worry about being right.
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Be wrong.
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It's a classroom environment.
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And so I think it comes from a very fear-based, we're just very afraid in general.
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SPEAKER_00
 It's interesting, I've been doing a lot of research for a new book I've been writing about really three main things that hold us back in our life, the three main fears that cause us to doubt ourselves.
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The fear of failure, the fear of success, and the fear of judgment, other people's opinions.
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And for most of my life, the fear of other people's opinions was the biggest thing that held me back.
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I was the one who wouldn't raise my hand.
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I wouldn't speak aloud because I was so afraid of being made fun of or picked on or whatever it might be.
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 How can someone overcome that fear of a classmate laughing about them or saying, oh, that was a dumb question or just something maybe bigger, they're putting something out on social media and getting attacks or whatever it might be.
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How do people overcome that insecurity?
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Well, I do think we've taken a step back actually in in-person communication, a huge step.
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Everything now is people are more comfortable in texting.
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 and communicating through social, and then when it comes to in person, something's completely shifted.
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You can see people having a harder time communicating in person, and everyone's kind of deviating towards typing, texting, or email.
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It's become the comfort space zone.
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What's the easiest way to communicate without?
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Text.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, exactly.
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Text is the easiest.
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Email.
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So here's the thing.
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In person is the best way to communicate, by the way.
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Whenever I can speak to somebody in person or sit down and see them,
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 Like this?
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This is where you get the best.
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This is where you get magic.
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Then there's Zoom.
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OK.
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Then there's the phone.
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Phone is another great way.
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But when you go to email, you still have to write.
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But long form sentences, you have to write properly.
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Texting is just a couple of words.
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 And that is where everyone's kind of shifted to gone.
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It's also the, when I text or when I post on social, I'm not as, it's keyboard courage.
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I'm not.
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You wouldn't say it to someone's face.
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You never say it to somebody's face.
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I feel like you should only say things online with what you would say to that person through their face.
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Otherwise, what are we doing?
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 Yes.
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If you can't look at somebody and say it, then you shouldn't write it.
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But it's the anonymity that I can write this stuff and then I can take out whatever's going on in my life out on somebody else and I can feel brave in that way.
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SPEAKER_01
But it's such a false way to be brave.
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SPEAKER_00
 What does that do to the person communicating in that way, having that false bravery by saying something strong or powerful or aggressive online, but the unwillingness to do that in person?
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What does that do to that person?
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You have to check in with yourself and realize, am I being a coward?
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If I can't say something to somebody's face, but I can do it over text, there's something that's missing.
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SPEAKER_01
 I think bravery is something that we don't speak about and courage is something we don't speak about.
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We don't do it in a very overt way, in a very physical way, in a very engaged way.
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It's talked about as this like thing.
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Oh be brave, be motivated.
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Where is that?
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 You have to manifest that with your body.
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You have to do it.
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And it's doing it in the day-to-day decisions that you make.
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So going back to my class, it's interesting.
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We talk about criminal justice, right?
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Criminology, and sometimes we'll talk about even being, for example, I showed them a video of somebody who fell on these New York City train tracks in New York City, and there were all these people on the platform.
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One person gets down to go help the person.
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And so I asked them, would you do that?
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 The majority of the class, no.
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No, hell no.
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No, whoa, I'm not gonna do that.
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And I hear that and I think something is lost there.
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 amongst us.
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When the answer, at least I feel, through my belief system again, is that the overwhelming answer should be like, I would want to help save another human being's life.
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I would want to help save somebody else.
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But we've come to this place where it's very much self-preservation, don't say anything wrong, don't do the wrong thing, right?
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And attack in a way that's safe and comfortable, or not even attack, but you can disagree.
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And here's the other amazing thing.
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 I think we don't understand how to disagree.
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So you can disagree or you can be competitive.
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It's something actually that you're taught in interviewing and in interrogations.
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Are you trying to be competitive in an interrogation?
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So when I say competitive, I mean that I can disagree with you in a healthy way.
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So you call it competitive dialogue.
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SPEAKER_00
How does it look if I say, you know, the sky is green today?
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SPEAKER_01
Okay.
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SPEAKER_01
Well, tell me why you think the sky is green.
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SPEAKER_00
 It's just it just looks green, you know, I just see the color You know, I don't know.
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SPEAKER_00
Maybe it's a reflection of something but it's green.
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It's not blue Okay, so now what I would do in that moment is ask you why you think of it that way why you see it this way What is your not disagreeing with me and saying?
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Oh, you know, you're an idiot.
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It's blue.
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Yes, you're not doing that You're not getting like defensive or aggressive because that is your value system.
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Okay?
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SPEAKER_01
 So I may, for example, I have a very strong belief system, fitness and working out.
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It's been part of me.
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But that's my belief system.
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It is not somebody else's.
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If I try to impose it to somebody, so for example, when you hear somebody say, I have to lose weight, I have to lose weight, their belief system is not really based upon working out and fitness.
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So I can turn around and be very direct.
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And that's being direct with someone is the way you lose people.
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So what you want to do is,
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 You want to always let people talk, even if you don't like what they have to say, even if you don't agree with them.
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Let them go, let them explain themselves.
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What happens when you let someone explain themselves, even when you know they're 100% wrong?
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You shut up.
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You shut your mouth.
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 That's like I always say that.
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The gift to any great communicator is this.
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Let them go.
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Don't correct them.
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Don't tell them that they're wrong.
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Just let them be in their world.
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Now, here's the important thing.
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One, they're going to say everything they want to say.
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You're going to understand what their mindset is.
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 And two things happen.
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One, you can speak now because once somebody's done sharing everything, now they can hear you.
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But what you do is you're speaking, I cut you off, I insert myself, you get frustrated, hey, you're not listening to me, I'm talking, she's dismissing me.
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And so when I speak, you come back at me, I come back at you, and now we have conflict.
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SPEAKER_01
 And so, for example, when I used to do interviews, I would sit in rooms with people who... When you mean an interview, you mean an interrogation.
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Interrogations.
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You know, it's interesting.
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You call them interviews, though.
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Interviews and interrogations are the same thing.
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So what you see in TV, in law and order, that you did it, you this, you that, that's garbage, it doesn't work.
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 Doesn't that work?
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The best confessions I've ever gotten, they've been almost like psychology sessions or conversations where people progressively, over a bit of time, give you what we call admissions.
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A little more, a little more.
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Yes.
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So it'll be like, yes, I was there at the house.
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Oh, yes, I was there at the time.
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Yes, I saw her or I saw him.
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Yes, I left upset.
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 Yes this, yes that and then incrementally you get to the confession, yes I did it.
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Whatever that is, right?
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Whereas most people go straight for the kill, tell me and it's because of this lack of patience, this thing that we know everything and maybe you are right in that moment but it's not what
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SPEAKER_01
 You think it's what the other person thinks, understanding how they think, getting into their head and speaking to them.
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SPEAKER_01
So now if we bring this back to what you asked me about, being competitive means I can compete with you in ideas without it being ugly, without being confrontational or conflict, but what we've done is we've made conflict a confrontation, this very negative thing,
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 We don't want it.
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When it happens, people lose their minds.
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I have so many people reach out, especially when I do consulting.
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The question's always, how do I avoid confrontation?
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How do I avoid conflict?
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Why do you spend so much time avoiding it?
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Why do you spend so much time avoiding speaking what you want to say, speaking your truth or sharing your ideas?
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 And why can you not present them in a way where there is disagreement, there is competitiveness, I compete, you compete, no, the sky is green, well, I see it this way, oh, I see it blue, but why do you see it this way?
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And you have that dialogue.
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But it's not an aggressive competitiveness, it's an open dialogue.
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It's not me being a jerk to show you how smart I am.
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And it's not me shutting you down.
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And it's not me having an attachment to the end result, me being right, and me showing you how right I am.
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SPEAKER_01
 Confident people don't care how right they are.
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They don't.
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When you're confident, it's like, I know what I know.
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I'm good with it.
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This person sees things a different way.
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And also, it also comes into where the dialogue, where sometimes we think, well, I'm saying this, and this is what I mean.
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You also have to think, what is this person hearing?
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So just because I think, well, I said this, it's like, that's great.
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But what are they hearing?
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How do they hear you?
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SPEAKER_00
 What's the skill then for people to, what happens when people avoid conflict as much as possible as opposed to leaning into it and being comfortable with the discomfort of conflict?
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SPEAKER_01
That is very dangerous and it is very bad.
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To avoid it.
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To avoid it because I'm not telling you to go look for it.
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 Avoid it to certain degrees when it's noise, when it's chatter.
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Like people talk to me about politics all the time because I was former Secret Service.
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I don't participate.
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To me, it's noise, it's chatter.
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I don't share.
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And I never speak about the people that I had access to or protected.
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But that, it doesn't matter to me.
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SPEAKER_00
But a conflict between relationships of friends or family or coworkers.
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SPEAKER_01
So, it depends.
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If it's important to you, you should address it.
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What you do is it causes long-term regret.
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 if you don't address it.
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If you don't address it, it causes you to build up resentment, anger, bitterness, and hate.
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That's where that comes from.
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SPEAKER_00
And the other person doesn't even know what they did, maybe.
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SPEAKER_01
Maybe they know, but if you don't check them, because from time to time in life you have to, I say check, this is my queens coming out, but when I say check, address it.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, check in with them.
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SPEAKER_01
Yes, you said this,
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 This is how I see this, and when you debate something with people, use language that's factual.
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SPEAKER_01
You said this, you said this, you said this.
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SPEAKER_01
Rather than trying to speak to people, you did this, you said this, you said this, because you're giving somebody something factual, intangible to look at, rather than I feel this way, I feel that way.
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SPEAKER_01
That's what happens is we get lost a little bit.
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SPEAKER_00
 So instead of saying, I feel this, you just say, I heard you say this or you said this?
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When you said this to me.
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SPEAKER_00
When you said this to me.
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SPEAKER_01
Okay, this is how I took it.
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SPEAKER_00
Okay.
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SPEAKER_01
This is why it's upsetting to me.
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SPEAKER_01
 Okay, is this how you see me?
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SPEAKER_01
Is this true?
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SPEAKER_01
We also have to check in with ourselves sometimes.
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SPEAKER_01
You know, we provoke people or we can be difficult people to deal with.
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SPEAKER_01
But at the end of the, right, we always like, and there's this, I don't know if you've noticed this, there's this theme out there.
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SPEAKER_01
Everybody's a narcissist and everybody's toxic.
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Everybody else, right?
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Everybody.
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And we don't realize, one, toxic people hang out with toxic people.
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 So check in with yourself.
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So if you're around a lot of toxic people, check in with yourself.
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And then you can't label everybody a narcissist.
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You can't label everybody something just to make it okay for you.
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SPEAKER_00
 and to put the blame on someone else.
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SPEAKER_00
You didn't do that.
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SPEAKER_01
Right, because we also have to look at what we're doing.
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What are we doing?
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Who are we engaging with?
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How much of this stuff do we bring into our lives?
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SPEAKER_01
We're not always innocent, sometimes we are.
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Especially in certain situations with serious trauma or abuse, especially with children.
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There are some situations where that is completely...
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 Innocent, but then if you see a pattern in your life If you see this you have to find a way where you are not afraid to speak why is it so scary for people to speak about a disagreement or a Conflict one because the theme is to avoid it Avoid the stuff avoid confrontation conflict and confrontation have a very negative tone stigma
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 And I say, I always tell people embrace confrontation.
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SPEAKER_01
When I worked in the White House, you have the cabinet room.
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The president sits in one seat, then you have all the heads of the different departments.
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The whole goal of the cabinet room was to debate things.
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So instead of, if somebody says to you or your boss says to you, you know, I didn't like the way this was done, do it this way next time.
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SPEAKER_01
And you hear, he doesn't like me, there's an issue there.
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SPEAKER_01
 because you're making everything too much about yourself.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, taking it too personal.
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SPEAKER_01
You're taking it, yes, your identity is becoming tied into everything.
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Whereas, can you just hear what he said or she said?
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They're telling you they didn't like the way this was done to be effective.
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 and execute quickly to get things done, they're just telling you, I don't like it, I want it done this way.
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And so we've lost that ability too to not make everything about us.
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SPEAKER_01
We're also in this very me, me, me, me, me, me, me space.
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Everything's me, me, me, me.
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 And we don't think about the other person across from us.
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SPEAKER_01
What are they dealing with?
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SPEAKER_01
It's my boss.
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There's a deadline.
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SPEAKER_01
They're just trying to communicate with me in an efficient way.
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And I think one of the blessings I had from being in the Secret Service, there was no, it was just very direct.
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Hey, this wasn't supposed to be done this way.
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Get it done this way.
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SPEAKER_00
Did people take it personally?
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SPEAKER_01
Zero.
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SPEAKER_00
Really?
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SPEAKER_01
And we were so much more efficient.
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SPEAKER_00
Did they train you on how to not take things personally?
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SPEAKER_00
Or was that just a culture and you had to learn quickly, otherwise you would suffer?
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SPEAKER_01
 I think when you go through training itself, they put you in very stressful situations.
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You begin to understand that this isn't about me, that you're about a collective unit or team.
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You are there for the other person.
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You're there, there's human life on the line.
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SPEAKER_01
So you really understand the bigger concept and idea.
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SPEAKER_01
And then you understand too, what is the goal or the mission?
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SPEAKER_01
The goal is to protect the president.
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SPEAKER_01
The goal is to solve this case.
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SPEAKER_01
You understand that there's a goal.
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SPEAKER_01
You are less likely, very less likely to take things,
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SPEAKER_01
 Oh, you don't like me?
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SPEAKER_01
It's like you have nothing to do with this.
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SPEAKER_00
It's so interesting because I would say that I used to have a fragile, what would you call it, personality maybe or confidence level in my teens and 20s, right?
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SPEAKER_00
When someone would give me critique or say I wasn't doing something right, I would take it so much offense and take it personally.
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SPEAKER_00
I would resist critique at all costs because I had a fragile identity about self-belief.
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SPEAKER_00
 And then when I hit 30, I'm 39 now, I started going to a lot more emotional intelligence training workshops where they taught me the power of feedback and not to take it personally.
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SPEAKER_00
And it was so challenging to receive feedback.
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SPEAKER_00
 in these workshops, but the more I practice it, I was like, okay, actually I want feedback on how can I improve to be more effective in these areas of my life.
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SPEAKER_00
And some things maybe are gonna land for me and support me and other things, maybe it doesn't resonate with me, but not take any of it personally.
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SPEAKER_00
Just use it of how can I be more of service to my mission?
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SPEAKER_00
And I think I was so afraid of what people thought about me and how I looked, as opposed to am I just giving my best towards my mission in life right now?
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SPEAKER_00
 And when you have the mission at a high level of presidency and protecting people, you're not thinking about yourself or what people think about you.
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SPEAKER_00
You're just thinking about getting the job done at the highest level, right?
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SPEAKER_01
 Yes, but you're also thinking about, too, executing it to the best of your ability.
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SPEAKER_01
I want to perform my best.
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SPEAKER_00
So give me more critique or feedback, right?
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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SPEAKER_01
I think, I know, and I have people who work for me as well, and I always tell them, don't yes me.
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SPEAKER_01
If you see something different, tell me, and then I'll make the best assessment that I can.
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SPEAKER_01
I don't want you to yes me because I may see something different.
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SPEAKER_01
I have a different background, a different mindset.
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SPEAKER_01
Let me know.
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SPEAKER_01
 But we don't want to hear that.
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SPEAKER_01
We want to be told how great we are.
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SPEAKER_01
We don't want to hear that we're making mistakes, or that we're wrong.
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SPEAKER_01
We take it way too deeply.
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SPEAKER_01
And what that does, it doesn't allow us to grow.
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SPEAKER_01
It makes it harder for people to work with us.
0
SPEAKER_01
 And in fact, a lot of companies reach out in that one of the issues that they have is communicating to their employees, where they wanna tell them, we want you to do this task this way.
0
SPEAKER_01
And when they speak to their employees, the employee hears something else.
0
SPEAKER_01
They get very upset, they get sensitive about it.
0
SPEAKER_01
They're like, we don't know how to dialogue with them to make them care about the task.
0
SPEAKER_01
Everything becomes about them personally.
0
SPEAKER_00
 Hmm what they're not doing right or something or how they yes, how am I perceived?
0
SPEAKER_01
What do people think of me and at the core and it's interesting that you said that it does come from our insecurity So, how do we overcome these insecurities?
0
SPEAKER_00
So we're not offended by everyone that gives us feedback.
0
SPEAKER_00
I
0
SPEAKER_01
 Well, you have to ask yourself, am I an insecure person?
0
SPEAKER_01
And be honest about it.
0
SPEAKER_01
And most people don't want to think of themselves that way.
0
SPEAKER_00
I had a lot of false confidence growing up.
0
SPEAKER_00
Or I was confident in one area, but not in other areas.
0
SPEAKER_00
So I could be confident in the sports arena, but then in life, I would be more fearful of people's opinions.
0
SPEAKER_00
And it took a while to learn how to unlearn that and just be okay with that.
0
SPEAKER_01
Where do you think that came from?
0
SPEAKER_00
 I mean, I mean, probably a lot of stuff.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I was the youngest of four.
0
SPEAKER_00
I didn't have a lot of friends growing up because I was, I was in the bottom of my class and I had like special needs classes and tutors all through college even.
0
SPEAKER_00
So I just felt like the thing I was spending the most time in school, I was the worst at compared to my peers.
0
SPEAKER_00
And so I think just getting picked on and made fun of in that arena made me insecure about myself thinking I'm not good enough, not smart enough, not whatever, talented enough.
0
SPEAKER_00
 And then when I was more of a teenager, I got into sports and became, put all my energy and effort into that and started to excel, which gave me confidence.
0
SPEAKER_00
I got results in an area of life.
0
SPEAKER_00
So I went all in.
0
SPEAKER_00
But when I got injured playing football, when I was 23, I lost my identity in that.
0
SPEAKER_00
So it was like my confidence was tied to identity of sports.
0
SPEAKER_00
And then if I no longer have that identity, who am I?
0
SPEAKER_00
And where's my confidence come from?
0
SPEAKER_00
So I had to learn later in my 20s
0
SPEAKER_00
 how to build confidence within with my character, which is what something you talked about.
0
SPEAKER_00
It's like learning to trust people not based on really their results or who they are or how famous they are or what they've done or how much money they have, but on how they show up and their way of being consistently.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I had to learn the hard way, you know, by making lots of mistakes and then shifting that through pain.
0
SPEAKER_00
Okay, now I need to show up in a different way consistently.
0
SPEAKER_00
So I think that's how I learned.
0
SPEAKER_00
 But part of me is grateful for the early training and the inner insecurities, but other part of me wishes I never had that also.
0
SPEAKER_00
But it allows me to connect with other people and see people and have a lot of empathy as well, so.
0
SPEAKER_01
 I think when we are younger, yes, it's a bit more difficult during the teenage years and early adulthood.
0
SPEAKER_01
I mean, just factually, the human brain doesn't develop fully until you're 25 years old anyway.
0
SPEAKER_01
So there's all these other issues happening biologically, which is harder to communicate sometimes with younger people.
0
SPEAKER_01
In fact, actually, even when we look at crime, the majority of crime committed is by younger people, 18 to 25.
0
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
0
SPEAKER_01
 So it goes to show you that there's correlation there with other things.
0
SPEAKER_01
We also see higher rates of impulsivity within that age group.
0
SPEAKER_01
So the younger population typically is the more, you know, I'm sorry to all my younger people out there, but I was there too.
0
SPEAKER_01
And if you think back where it's where we are the most unstable, we are the most impulsive, which means we don't really think through things.
0
SPEAKER_01
We don't think of the consequences.
0
SPEAKER_01
 We are much more identity-based, me, me, me.
0
SPEAKER_00
What we wear, who we're hanging out with, what we're doing.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yes, I'm the sun, everything revolves around me.
0
SPEAKER_00
Right, right.
0
SPEAKER_01
Right?
0
SPEAKER_01
And it is, and so that's where we also see, you know, this impulsive behavior.
0
SPEAKER_01
Impulsivity tends to be one of the characteristics when we see criminal behavior, deviant behavior.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
 So when you hit that 25 mark, and there's a lot of theories trying to figure it, trying to figure out why that is, but we see even when it comes to just crime and deviant behavior, we see a kind of a, it peaks, peaks, peaks, we hit 25 and then just starts to fall off the cliff.
0
SPEAKER_00
Why is that?
0
SPEAKER_01
 Some people think it's because of the biology, the development of the brain.
0
SPEAKER_01
You're fully developed now.
0
SPEAKER_00
Other people think... You have more responsibilities in your life.
0
SPEAKER_01
You have a job you're responsible.
0
SPEAKER_01
You have a partner that you answer to.
0
SPEAKER_01
You have these responsibilities.
0
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes if you look at it just based off of gender, male gender, which tends to skew more towards committing crime, they also think hormones, biology plays a role, testosterone plays a role in that.
0
SPEAKER_00
 More men committing crimes than women when we look at the data.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yes when we look at we're getting caught at least you know Actually women so let me that's the first part.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yes when we look at violent crime Overwhelmingly, it's mostly men.
0
SPEAKER_00
However violent crime.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yes violent crime actually crime overall to be fair But were we seeing as we have this equality taking place?
0
SPEAKER_01
What's interesting?
0
SPEAKER_01
We're also seeing women commit more crime.
0
SPEAKER_00
Come on
0
SPEAKER_01
 Yes, so where we see actually more crime being committed by women is not really in the violent area, violent crime, they're property crimes.
0
SPEAKER_00
What are they doing?
0
SPEAKER_01
Property crimes, fraud, money, scams.
0
SPEAKER_01
Really?
0
SPEAKER_01
And I'm trying to think back when I worked investigations, I would arrest quite a few women and the crimes that I would arrest them for typically was fraud.
0
SPEAKER_01
 stealing money from the government, checks, cashing, fraud schemes, electronic crime fraud.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yes, that's where women tend to commit when we look at the data the most crime.
0
SPEAKER_01
Violent crime typically still at the moment skews more male although women are definitely closing the gap.
0
SPEAKER_01
And then when we look at the male population who's
0
SPEAKER_01
 represented in a prison war, we do have men.
0
SPEAKER_01
However, to be fair, is it also the mindset that when a woman goes before a judge or the court and a man goes before the judge and the court, are they going to look at those two individuals?
0
SPEAKER_00
The bias.
0
SPEAKER_01
The bias, differently.
0
SPEAKER_00
They do, I'm assuming, right?
0
SPEAKER_00
And you want to feel like, okay, we have to protect the woman maybe from what could happen in prison.
0
SPEAKER_01
 I think it's because we don't perceive women as... Could they really do this?
0
SPEAKER_00
Could you really stab this person or shoot them in the face?
0
SPEAKER_00
 She seems so nice.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, she seems so put together.
0
SPEAKER_00
She's so kind.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
0
SPEAKER_01
Well, we don't perceive Typically, I do think it's shifting, but we typically historically Women even if you just look at something simple as who gets away with getting a speeding ticket men versus women women, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
Probably women.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yes now it doesn't who's harder on women in court male judges or female judges and
0
SPEAKER_01
 So I would think female judges would be harder on women in court.
0
SPEAKER_01
It's something called double marginality, where when you are, and they also noted this in races as well, when it comes to race, when you are in that capacity.
0
SPEAKER_00
You can't let your race or your gender get away with something.
0
SPEAKER_01
You will try to overcompensate to show, I'm on this side, I'm a judge, I'm not gonna be biased towards somebody because of gender or race, because they're my same gender or race.
0
SPEAKER_01
 because it would not be perceived as well.
0
SPEAKER_01
So I might even be harder on them, just so that I'm not perceived as being soft on them, which is not fair.
0
SPEAKER_00
That's tough.
0
SPEAKER_00
I'm curious.
0
SPEAKER_00
I've heard that, I don't know the statistic, but I've heard that women in relationships cheat just as much as men, but women don't get caught as much.
0
SPEAKER_00
Why is that?
0
SPEAKER_00
And I don't know the statistics, but that's what I've just heard.
0
SPEAKER_00
Why do you think, if that's the case,
0
SPEAKER_00
 that women don't get caught as much, but still cheat as much.
0
SPEAKER_01
You know, that's interesting.
0
SPEAKER_01
I'd not heard that.
0
SPEAKER_01
The one thing I had known is that what we're seeing more is women are more likely to file for divorce.
0
SPEAKER_01
 two day than a man would.
0
SPEAKER_01
That I've heard.
0
SPEAKER_01
As far as lying and cheating, my experience, I've seen it, I've seen everybody lie and cheat, regardless of gender.
0
SPEAKER_01
People do it, so I've, in my years and years of interviewing hundreds and hundreds of people, to me I've seen people lie equally and cheat equally.
0
SPEAKER_01
I will say that, yes.
0
SPEAKER_01
I've not, I think some, I think certain people may not get caught,
0
SPEAKER_01
 perhaps because you're not looking at them as much, they're being overlooked, you don't see them.
0
SPEAKER_01
Well look, maybe you're not thinking there as...
1
SPEAKER_04
 I don't want to say that they're better liars because it has to do with the person.
1
SPEAKER_04
But if you don't see them as much of a threat, you're not going to suspect them as much.
1
SPEAKER_04
You know, here's a good example.
1
SPEAKER_04
I did undercover work.
1
SPEAKER_04
One of the reasons I felt comfortable doing undercover work and I would get picked to do undercover work is because I didn't look like law enforcement.
1
SPEAKER_04
I didn't look threatening or menacing or anything like that.
1
SPEAKER_04
So I was more successful.
1
SPEAKER_01
 People trusted you more.
1
SPEAKER_04
I wasn't looked at as a threat.
1
SPEAKER_04
Oh, her?
1
SPEAKER_04
High five.
1
SPEAKER_01
She couldn't be a police or a secret service.
1
SPEAKER_04
Or even when I would do interviews or interrogations or even today if it's on TV, on camera, or for the news, when I'm interviewing people, guards tend to be lower versus when you've got somebody else maybe that's
1
SPEAKER_04
 a man that's bigger in size, you're gonna be a bit more, oh, I need to.
1
SPEAKER_04
It's just how we perceive people, but it all goes back to the way we size people up.
1
SPEAKER_04
And we all do it.
1
SPEAKER_04
We have our perceived ideas of what we think of people.
1
SPEAKER_04
You meet someone, within the first five seconds, you've sized them up.
1
SPEAKER_04
You make your impression of them, what you think of them, and once you make that impression, especially if it's negative, it's very hard to undo.
1
SPEAKER_04
 Very hard to undo.
1
SPEAKER_01
After the first few moments, first few minutes.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yes, yes.
1
SPEAKER_04
And that's good for us to know too, because when you're meeting someone, those few moments, when people don't have, when they don't know you, they have nothing to judge you by, they judge you on what they see and how they put you together.
1
SPEAKER_01
Your energy, what you say.
1
SPEAKER_04
How you speak, your energy, your behavior.
1
SPEAKER_04
You say energy, I say behavior.
1
SPEAKER_01
Behavior, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
We're in LA here, we say more energy, right?
1
SPEAKER_04
But it's behavior.
1
SPEAKER_01
It is behavior.
1
SPEAKER_04
 Everyone uses energy because they don't know how to define it.
1
SPEAKER_04
Assess people and behavior.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I'm bringing this up because this comes up a lot.
1
SPEAKER_04
Evie, I feel this person.
1
SPEAKER_04
I don't know.
1
SPEAKER_04
No, you do know.
1
SPEAKER_04
It's their behavior.
1
SPEAKER_03
What are their behaviors?
1
SPEAKER_03
What are they doing?
1
SPEAKER_04
What are they showing you?
1
SPEAKER_04
 Because you'll get this.
1
SPEAKER_04
I love you.
1
SPEAKER_04
I love you if we bring it that it can be Relationships or friendship.
1
SPEAKER_04
I love you.
1
SPEAKER_04
I would die without you the most important person to me people tell you that But then when you look at the behavior, what does the behavior show you?
1
SPEAKER_04
When you are to meet them, are they there do they cancel on you?
1
SPEAKER_04
Do they show up on time?
1
SPEAKER_04
Are they present?
1
SPEAKER_04
Do they blow you off?
1
SPEAKER_04
so we get confused with
1
SPEAKER_04
 I hear this, but they show me this.
1
SPEAKER_04
And so some people are very loud in the way they speak or very persuasive.
1
SPEAKER_04
And this is what people hear and follow.
1
SPEAKER_04
And then they're like, oh, but the energy of it's off.
1
SPEAKER_04
Is it the energy or is it what they're actually showing you in their behavior, in their tone, even their paralinguistics, how they sound when they speak.
1
SPEAKER_04
 Because you can even find deception sometimes in speech.
1
SPEAKER_01
In a tone.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, you'll see a change in cadence.
1
SPEAKER_04
So if I'm telling you a story, I'm going to lie to you, which I wouldn't lie to you, Louis.
1
SPEAKER_04
But if I were going to lie to you, you're asking me, Evie, what did you do last night?
1
SPEAKER_04
And initially, we're having this great conversation.
1
SPEAKER_04
And then you start asking me, what did you do last night?
1
SPEAKER_04
And I don't want to tell you what I did.
1
SPEAKER_04
Maybe I went out with your girlfriend and we partied it up.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I want to cover for her.
1
SPEAKER_04
 my cadence could shift.
1
SPEAKER_04
So I could be speaking normally and then, yeah, yesterday was great, I had a wonderful day.
1
SPEAKER_04
Abby, what'd you do last night?
1
SPEAKER_04
Oh, well, then I went to the store.
1
SPEAKER_01
You have to think about a story now, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yes, well, lying is work.
1
SPEAKER_04
 It's not easy to lie.
1
SPEAKER_01
It's hard.
1
SPEAKER_04
It's hard.
1
SPEAKER_04
Lying is work.
1
SPEAKER_01
You have to remember what you said of the lie, right?
1
SPEAKER_04
You have to remember.
1
SPEAKER_04
And most people, Lewis, don't like to lie.
1
SPEAKER_04
Most.
1
SPEAKER_04
We don't like to lie.
1
SPEAKER_04
We know it's wrong.
1
SPEAKER_04
Nobody wants to be a liar.
1
SPEAKER_04
And so actually the dominant way people lie is through omission.
1
SPEAKER_04
They leave parts out.
1
SPEAKER_01
 The white lies or they leave something out.
1
SPEAKER_04
No white lie is I mean, how do you like my outfit?
1
SPEAKER_04
I think you look I like to think you look amazing.
1
SPEAKER_04
I think you should you look amazing.
1
SPEAKER_04
I love it Let's say it was like bright fuchsia
1
SPEAKER_04
 And I'm like, no, no, you look great, Louis, right?
1
SPEAKER_04
That would be a white lie.
1
SPEAKER_04
Lying by omission is... Leaving something out.
1
SPEAKER_04
I leave a big crux of it out.
1
SPEAKER_04
So I'll tell you about my day yesterday, but I will leave out that part where I met up with your girlfriend and we went out and we hung out and we partied it up.
1
SPEAKER_04
I'll leave that part out.
1
SPEAKER_04
Or I'll leave out the part that she partied up.
1
SPEAKER_04
So that's why it's hard for people to spot lies sometimes.
1
SPEAKER_04
Because people will give us a story,
1
SPEAKER_04
 but they leave this crux out.
1
SPEAKER_04
And this is the thing you have to ask yourself, what's missing?
1
SPEAKER_01
How do you know when something's missing?
1
SPEAKER_04
Ask questions.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_04
 ask questions, when you see gaps in time, sometimes even in speech you'll hear, all of a sudden, and then, and the next thing I knew, those are typically sound bites of deception.
1
SPEAKER_04
Not always, but sometimes when you hear that, it's somebody skipping time in a story.
1
SPEAKER_04
So if somebody's telling you a story and you get these great details, they're sharing, then you get to a part of the story and there's a gap, and they're like, oh yeah, we went out, it was fine, and then they kind of,
1
SPEAKER_01
 And then we came back, and here's what, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_04
You have to say to yourself, what's missing?
1
SPEAKER_04
It's almost like when people hire individuals to work for them, and they look at their resume, and then they look at their application form.
1
SPEAKER_04
Where did you work before?
1
SPEAKER_04
What did you do here?
1
SPEAKER_04
And then there's that gap of time, like for employment, sometimes you'll see a gap of time.
1
SPEAKER_04
Oh, there's a couple of years here missing.
1
SPEAKER_00
What happened?
1
SPEAKER_00
What'd you do?
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, you know, I was just doing my own thing.
1
SPEAKER_04
Oh, I was traveling across Europe.
1
SPEAKER_00
 but I got fired from three jobs.
1
SPEAKER_00
I just left that out.
1
SPEAKER_00
You don't have to call those people.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I know.
1
SPEAKER_04
I did the HR when I was in the service, because I did the polygraphs, and I would look at their paperwork, and I would see gaps of time for jobs, or even when people got evicted, because they would get asked, have you ever been thrown out or evicted?
1
SPEAKER_04
Because you want to see somebody's history.
1
SPEAKER_04
And so we'd ask them, where'd you live?
1
SPEAKER_04
And they would have to put years of, I don't know, I can't remember how many years back, but 10, 15 years back where they've lived.
1
SPEAKER_04
 And you'd see gaps of time.
1
SPEAKER_04
Well, where'd you live here?
1
SPEAKER_04
Oh, just with some friends.
1
SPEAKER_04
Well, why didn't you write it down?
1
SPEAKER_04
We asked you to write it down.
1
SPEAKER_01
This was for someone trying to be in the Secret Service, right?
1
SPEAKER_04
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_04
I mean, that hiring process was way more intensive.
1
SPEAKER_01
So you put them through a lie detector test.
1
SPEAKER_04
I can help you out here for your employees.
1
SPEAKER_01
I'll do your paperwork.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, exactly.
1
SPEAKER_01
So you put them through a lie detector test and interrogate them on their whole history.
1
SPEAKER_04
 Yes, so it's called, when you do a polygraph, and this part I can share, because I always want to be mindful, I don't want to say anything that's sensitive or classified.
1
SPEAKER_04
When you take certain federal jobs, so with U.S.
1
SPEAKER_04
Secret Service, because people can write what they want to write, how do you verify what is or isn't truthful?
1
SPEAKER_04
And that's where it becomes tricky, and because of the nature of the job and the risk that comes with the job, and the power that is given to someone.
1
SPEAKER_04
 They do their best to validate that what is in the application is truthful.
1
SPEAKER_04
So there's two things.
1
SPEAKER_04
One, they'll look at national security stuff.
1
SPEAKER_04
Have you violated national security?
1
SPEAKER_04
Are you somebody who's trying to infiltrate?
1
SPEAKER_04
That kind of thing.
1
SPEAKER_04
And then there's another part of it where they call it lifestyle, which is where people struggle the most and people get disqualified the most.
1
SPEAKER_04
That is your history.
1
SPEAKER_01
 So if they could have made it a crime, that's the first part, there's no chance they were gonna make the job, right?
1
SPEAKER_04
Depends on what the crime is.
1
SPEAKER_01
Really?
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, it depends on what you did.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, when I was 14, I did this and then, you know.
1
SPEAKER_04
Correct.
1
SPEAKER_04
Or even 18 or 19, it depends on what you did.
1
SPEAKER_04
Because you have to look at people in general are flawed.
1
SPEAKER_01
Right.
1
SPEAKER_04
So especially when you're looking at the window of time, which you brought up, you know, I was young, I was this.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh man, lots of mistakes.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_04
 And so I think with those, at least I can speak, what they look for more is truthful and honesty.
1
SPEAKER_04
And the thing is, if you're going to lie about this, then what are you willing to lie about later?
1
SPEAKER_03
Absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_04
 Now there are of course some things like if you've got a couple of felonies you're probably not going to get hired because it kind of goes against the principles of that job function.
1
SPEAKER_01
Was there anyone who had like a pretty big crime but they were, hey it's been 15 years, my behavior has been so...
1
SPEAKER_01
 in alignment since then I've done this and this and this and they're truthful about all their flaws and they're just like yep this was me and his point and here's this and you're like they're so truthful and honest I now trust them more and we want them.
1
SPEAKER_04
 I think by the time they come to you, because the thing was, I would ask them, have you ever committed a crime?
1
SPEAKER_04
And then I would list the crimes.
1
SPEAKER_04
And so one of the signs where there was deception, a red flag, let's say a red flag.
1
SPEAKER_04
Oh, no, you guys ran my rap sheet.
1
SPEAKER_04
I don't have anything.
1
SPEAKER_00
 But have you done anything that wasn't caught?
1
SPEAKER_04
I didn't ask you what you got caught for.
1
SPEAKER_04
I'm asking you what you did.
1
SPEAKER_04
And we all know what we do or don't do.
1
SPEAKER_04
Typically, the people that were truthful would tend to have a very good shot.
1
SPEAKER_04
Where I would see things that were more memorable were when people would lie or cover it up.
1
SPEAKER_04
So I mean, you would get applicants that had, in the course of speaking to them, they would confess to- Really?
1
SPEAKER_04
 Yes, I mean I had abuse of animals which was a big thing like I remember had somebody who used to set animals on fire You would have really when they were the young though or something no through the course of there and that's actually a huge red flag
1
SPEAKER_04
 because they were as they were young and then they got older and then they progress from smaller to bigger animals and so that's um, that's actually a bit of a I don't want to say prerequisite, but it's something that you'll see in younger people which kind of leads to There's a lack of empathy there.
1
SPEAKER_04
So that's where you kind of go into sociopathic or psychopathic
1
SPEAKER_04
 Behavior personality disorders and when we see those disorders, you don't see them a lot Everybody thinks it's prevalent.
1
SPEAKER_04
It's not it's out there not as much but those are individuals who commit acts or harmful acts against someone but they don't feel bad and
1
SPEAKER_04
 They lack empathy.
1
SPEAKER_04
It's one of the few, there's not a lot of disorders out there that do that, but there are some, such as those, that's where you have serial killers, or you have serial rapists, where they do this, but they don't feel guilty.
1
SPEAKER_04
Where the majority of the population, when they cause you harm, they feel bad.
1
SPEAKER_04
That's why what's actually interesting, when I would do interviews, or as you like to call them, interrogations,
1
SPEAKER_04
 It was easier for me with the majority of the population to get a person who committed a violent crime to confess than it was somebody who stole money to confess.
1
SPEAKER_01
Because it wasn't harmful or what, why is that?
1
SPEAKER_04
Less guilt.
1
SPEAKER_01
Less guilt.
1
SPEAKER_04
 So if I do something to harm you, it means I'm doing something to harm you.
1
SPEAKER_04
To physically hurt you.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_04
Even if I stole money off of you, I have to take it off of you.
1
SPEAKER_04
I'm doing something to you.
1
SPEAKER_04
But now, if I'm in my pajamas and my bunny slippers, at my computer at home, sipping my School of Greatness coffee,
1
SPEAKER_04
 and I'm on the computer and I'm stealing from Chase Bank or I'm stealing from some…or even if I'm stealing from a person I don't know this person.
1
SPEAKER_04
 then I don't feel as bad.
1
SPEAKER_04
That is why we're seeing a huge also influx in crime here because now you're branching off to a larger portion of the population.
1
SPEAKER_04
So the reason why you see so much fraud and so much scams, like it's your cell phone, right?
1
SPEAKER_04
Every other minute, it's like, hi, you want to buy this life insurance or hey, this is about to expire.
1
SPEAKER_04
The reason you're seeing that skyrocket is people don't feel as bad about those crimes.
1
SPEAKER_04
So we have a larger portion of the population
1
SPEAKER_04
 committing those crimes.
1
SPEAKER_04
Whereas violent crimes, the majority of people feel bad.
1
SPEAKER_04
I'm causing harm to you.
1
SPEAKER_04
I'm physically doing something to you.
1
SPEAKER_01
It's more personal.
1
SPEAKER_01
It's personal.
1
SPEAKER_01
You see the person.
1
SPEAKER_01
You're with the person.
1
SPEAKER_04
Guilt.
1
SPEAKER_01
It's not like you don't know the person.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_04
So this is why we're seeing this huge, huge
1
SPEAKER_04
 blow up here it's like well I'm not really it's just some name on a screen that I see but you also just you know wiped out this person's life savings but you don't see it in that way so sad yeah you can't you're not emotionally connected to it as much yes I'm curious you talked about how it's really hard after a first impression
1
SPEAKER_01
 to change your mind about someone, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
Once you see them or you meet with them for a second or you talk to them for 30 seconds, you kind of have made up probably a lot of your bias about that person, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
Based on the way they look, the way they sound, what they say, you know, facial expression, I'm assuming, body language, all these things, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
If that is so important, the first impression, to building influential relationships,
1
SPEAKER_01
 What would you say is the thing that we should be thinking about every time we meet someone new, whether it be a stranger or an important meeting?
1
SPEAKER_04
You have to bring all of you.
1
SPEAKER_04
So the majority of what we communicate with people, if we look at the science, and this is truly science-based, is almost 70% of what you communicate with people is this, your body.
1
SPEAKER_04
 And people don't pay attention to it.
1
SPEAKER_04
So when they're sitting in a meeting, something as simple as having very poor posture, so slouching the whole time, sit up, show them you're there, taking space.
1
SPEAKER_04
So if I take space, so if I was doing this interview with you and I just was kind of sitting like this,
1
SPEAKER_04
 I'm conveying to everybody out there.
1
SPEAKER_04
I'm not sure of myself.
1
SPEAKER_04
I don't feel comfortable.
1
SPEAKER_04
I'm insecure.
1
SPEAKER_04
You're gonna make an assessment of me.
1
SPEAKER_04
But when you take up space, when you open yourself up, it shows I matter.
1
SPEAKER_04
I'm here.
1
SPEAKER_04
And people throw that out.
1
SPEAKER_04
People throw the body out.
1
SPEAKER_04
The other thing is, paralinguistics is powerful.
1
SPEAKER_04
So paralinguistics is what you sound like when you speak.
1
SPEAKER_04
 my tone, my pitch, my voice, even, and especially with women, this is one place where women sometimes, it's, we bring in these really high tones and these very, my girly voice, I can bring that in.
1
SPEAKER_01
Everything's a question also.
1
SPEAKER_04
Did I go out last night?
1
SPEAKER_04
Did I?
1
SPEAKER_04
I had dinner, I went with my friends.
1
SPEAKER_04
I'm Evie Pomperous.
1
SPEAKER_04
That sends a message about who we are and who we aren't.
1
SPEAKER_04
 Some of the research says only 7% accounts to what you actually say.
1
SPEAKER_04
So people will sit and memorize a speech.
1
SPEAKER_04
They will memorize a speech.
1
SPEAKER_04
I have to get this perfect.
1
SPEAKER_04
But that's only 7% of what people actually hear.
1
SPEAKER_04
So the two most important things is your body the tool.
1
SPEAKER_04
Are you bringing it?
1
SPEAKER_04
Is it engaging?
1
SPEAKER_04
 Are you connecting with people?
1
SPEAKER_04
Do you even eye contact?
1
SPEAKER_04
When you talk to someone, are you really looking at them?
1
SPEAKER_04
Or do you break eye contact a lot?
1
SPEAKER_04
Most of the time we break eye contact when we talk to people, especially when we want to remember something.
1
SPEAKER_04
But when you're really trying to bring it in a scenario, in an interview, you're hiring someone or they're hiring you.
1
SPEAKER_04
 Bring it.
1
SPEAKER_04
Be there.
1
SPEAKER_04
Eye contact also conveys a huge amount of trust and a huge amount of confidence.
1
SPEAKER_04
So one of the things I hear is, oh, I'm uncomfortable with eye contact.
1
SPEAKER_04
It's going to affect you.
1
SPEAKER_04
Because now, when I read you, that's not a confident person.
1
SPEAKER_04
Do I want to hire this confident person?
1
SPEAKER_01
So if they look you in the eyes while they're communicating with you or while you're communicating with them, it shows they're more confident.
1
SPEAKER_04
 It conveys strength and trust, confidence in myself.
1
SPEAKER_04
Also, eye contact, again, overwhelmingly, when we look at the data and research, it conveys trust.
1
SPEAKER_04
That's why everyone's like, look me in the eyes and tell me the truth.
1
SPEAKER_04
Look me in the eyes.
1
SPEAKER_04
I could look at you all day long, Lewis, and lie.
1
SPEAKER_04
I'm just as good a liar as you are.
1
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_01
It's really hard to look someone straight in the eyes and lie to them, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
You kind of have to look away for a second, right?
1
SPEAKER_04
Some people may.
1
SPEAKER_04
It depends how good they are.
1
SPEAKER_01
 Wow.
1
SPEAKER_01
Do they train you how to be a great liar?
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, do you have to learn to be a great liar in Secret Service in order to understand when someone's doing it, to see the slightest tells?
1
SPEAKER_04
No.
1
SPEAKER_04
I was never taught to be a great liar.
1
SPEAKER_04
I was taught how to read behavior.
1
SPEAKER_04
And even still, I continue to go to training to assess human, it's all behavior.
1
SPEAKER_04
What are the people showing you?
1
SPEAKER_04
What are the indicators?
1
SPEAKER_04
But the most important thing is, when it comes to reading people,
1
SPEAKER_04
 And I know you and I talked about this in depth last time.
1
SPEAKER_04
It's not about one thing somebody does.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I see it a lot where, oh, a liar is anyone who always does this or anyone who always does that.
1
SPEAKER_04
It is seeing the person's behavior and then pulling out red flags.
1
SPEAKER_04
So for example, if we go and actually one of the best ways to detect deception is through verbal.
1
SPEAKER_04
 words actually give people away a bit more.
1
SPEAKER_01
How many cues would you say that you're looking for?
1
SPEAKER_01
If there's like verbal, bottom language, the story, their behavior.
1
SPEAKER_01
Are there a set of cues that you're like, okay, I look for these five things and if four of them are off, then it's like... Because you may not do those things.
1
SPEAKER_01
Or it might just be like a nervous person in general.
1
SPEAKER_01
You're like, why is this person nervous?
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, I'm always nervous or something, right?
1
SPEAKER_04
 So, okay, when I first came in, you spent 10 minutes, 15 minutes chatting with me.
1
SPEAKER_04
Why do you do that?
1
SPEAKER_01
 Well, because I like you.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know, I want to see how you're doing, I want to connect with you.
1
SPEAKER_01
But you do that with all your guests?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I mean, I do a little more with you.
1
SPEAKER_04
But why?
1
SPEAKER_04
What's the reasoning why?
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, I don't want to just jump right into an interview.
1
SPEAKER_01
I want to build connection.
1
SPEAKER_01
I want to see what you're up to.
1
SPEAKER_01
What's really exciting in your life right now?
1
SPEAKER_01
Is there something off in your life that we can talk about and go into?
1
SPEAKER_01
And really just build a connection.
1
SPEAKER_04
So when you connect with them, do you not also get their energy?
1
SPEAKER_01
 Yeah, their behavior.
1
SPEAKER_04
Their behavior, their energy, their movement, how they sit and all that.
1
SPEAKER_04
Do you ever get somebody that's maybe, you read them, your impression is this person's a bit more shy, I don't want to have a boring interview.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, they're all off or they need this.
1
SPEAKER_04
I need to bring it, I need to make them more comfortable.
1
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
I always say the pre-show is the show.
1
SPEAKER_01
The show needs to be powerful, but if you don't bring it in the pre-show and build the connection there, it's like you're really interviewing someone in the pre-show.
1
SPEAKER_01
 so that the show can inspire and impact the world.
1
SPEAKER_01
And if I don't create that in the pre-show, or if we're not creating that, it's gonna be harder to create it when we get started.
1
SPEAKER_04
 And what you're trying to do is figure out that person's baseline when you first meet them.
1
SPEAKER_04
What's their baseline?
1
SPEAKER_04
Oh, right now I've got somebody very timid.
1
SPEAKER_04
They're not going to bring it.
1
SPEAKER_04
This podcast is going to suck.
1
SPEAKER_02
I can't have that.
1
SPEAKER_04
I want to have people feeling inspired.
1
SPEAKER_04
So you assess people's baseline.
1
SPEAKER_04
Everyone's different.
1
SPEAKER_04
So when you assess a baseline is this is who this person is in this moment.
1
SPEAKER_04
Now, when you start asking them questions and you're always very courteous to me every time I come on, Evie, is there anything you don't want me to ask you?
1
SPEAKER_04
And every time I say, go ahead.
1
SPEAKER_04
 Lay it on me, I have no problem.
1
SPEAKER_04
I mean, but then if you ask me questions then, if I don't like it, you'll see a deviation.
1
SPEAKER_04
So Evie, the entire time we were speaking, she's been sitting this way, using her hands, she's expressive, using illustrators.
1
SPEAKER_04
Then if you ask me a question that I don't like, I put my, well, I could just put my hands away, nothing more than put my hands away.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I can notice, oh, there's a shift here.
1
SPEAKER_04
 Wait a minute, right, you're gonna say, this whole time I've been speaking with her hands, she's very illustrative, and now she put her hands away.
1
SPEAKER_04
So what you're looking at is, what did I just do?
1
SPEAKER_04
I asked a question, or I said something or did something, and as a result of that, it caused a shift in behavior.
1
SPEAKER_04
That's a bit of a red flag.
1
SPEAKER_04
Now what you do next is, why?
1
SPEAKER_04
In your head, why did she do that?
1
SPEAKER_01
You bank it in your mind, you think about it.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yes, now if you're a good interviewer,
1
SPEAKER_04
 And it depends how deep you want to go.
1
SPEAKER_04
You'll ask me questions about it.
1
SPEAKER_01
About why you shifted.
1
SPEAKER_04
You won't say to me, Evie, why did you shift?
1
SPEAKER_04
You'll continue to ask me questions about that.
1
SPEAKER_01
That topic that made you feel there was a shift.
1
SPEAKER_04
There was a shift.
1
SPEAKER_04
Oh, there's something here.
1
SPEAKER_04
Oh, I want to know.
1
SPEAKER_04
Oh, what is she hiding?
1
SPEAKER_04
Oh, what is the story there that I want to know about?
1
SPEAKER_04
 So that can do that.
1
SPEAKER_04
For other people, I could just be sitting here the whole time.
1
SPEAKER_04
You ask me a question.
1
SPEAKER_04
I could do something as simple as put my hand over my mouth right before I answer you.
1
SPEAKER_04
Again, everybody doesn't do it, but you could say, why did she just put her hand over her mouth?
1
SPEAKER_04
But the thing is, what did I do?
1
SPEAKER_04
What did I say?
1
SPEAKER_04
 that caused her to do that.
1
SPEAKER_04
The goal is for you to be not afraid to ask questions.
1
SPEAKER_04
The majority of the population, very fear-based.
1
SPEAKER_04
We don't like confrontation.
1
SPEAKER_04
We don't wanna push through or ask.
1
SPEAKER_04
And we let things go instead of being curious.
1
SPEAKER_04
You're curious about people.
1
SPEAKER_04
You're fascinated by people.
1
SPEAKER_04
I am too.
1
SPEAKER_04
I listen to people.
1
SPEAKER_04
I love to hear their story.
1
SPEAKER_04
And when you talk to them, they will tell you
1
SPEAKER_04
 what they want to tell you, and they'll leave some stuff out.
1
SPEAKER_04
Can't you tell sometimes the parts that they leave out of themselves that they just don't want to share?
1
SPEAKER_04
There's something missing there.
1
SPEAKER_04
The energy shifts, the behavior shifts.
1
SPEAKER_04
It's behavior.
1
SPEAKER_04
I think people say energy because they just don't know how to define it.
1
SPEAKER_04
 So study a person's baseline, and you can do it within seconds, too.
1
SPEAKER_04
So when you're connecting with people, what you also probably don't realize that what you're doing is intuitively, Louis, you're reading people.
1
SPEAKER_04
You're getting the picture.
1
SPEAKER_04
You're getting a sense of who they are.
1
SPEAKER_04
You even said to me, actually, today, you said, Evi, you seem more relaxed on this one.
1
SPEAKER_04
Last time you came in, I thought you were gonna pile drive me.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, exactly, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it's interesting, and I always know that
1
SPEAKER_01
 And I guess it depends on if you're meeting someone for the first time versus we've met each other before so the energy or the behavior can be shifted I guess.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I always try to, and I think I did this with you, when someone walks through the door I try to open my arms.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think right away I was just like, hey, you know, I open my arms.
1
SPEAKER_01
I try to open my arms.
1
SPEAKER_01
 and really just kind of be a joyful person.
1
SPEAKER_01
Whether it's someone I know or someone I'm just meeting because I want people to feel like this is a safe space and this is a joyful place and I'm a safe human being.
1
SPEAKER_01
I'm not going to hurt anyone here.
1
SPEAKER_04
Let me ask you a question.
1
SPEAKER_01
I also know I'm much bigger than a lot of people.
1
SPEAKER_04
Did anybody teach you that or is that something you normally do on your own?
1
SPEAKER_01
 I've just done it for years.
1
SPEAKER_01
I can't think if someone taught me, I don't remember, but I've just always kind of been this, because I think when I started doing it, probably in my teens or early 20s, I was like, oh, people are much more receptive to this.
1
SPEAKER_01
There's probably a reward for that behavior based on what I was doing.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I was like, oh, let me just always be this way.
1
SPEAKER_04
 So actually there's a term for that.
1
SPEAKER_04
It's called an open posture, welcoming posture.
1
SPEAKER_04
So it's a wild because you do it intuitively.
1
SPEAKER_04
So this is when you want people to not feel intimidated.
1
SPEAKER_04
You want people to connect with you.
1
SPEAKER_04
What you want to do is exactly what you did.
1
SPEAKER_04
So supervisors, anybody out there, listen up.
1
SPEAKER_04
If this is you want to connect with people or people are intimidated by you, open posture.
1
SPEAKER_04
 So I'm open, my hands are out, my hands are open too.
1
SPEAKER_04
Nothing's in my hands.
1
SPEAKER_04
So it's, and you said, I'm safe.
1
SPEAKER_04
I'm not hiding anything.
1
SPEAKER_04
I don't have anything.
1
SPEAKER_04
My hands aren't in my pockets.
1
SPEAKER_04
I don't have anything in my hands.
1
SPEAKER_04
I'm open, I'm safe.
1
SPEAKER_04
And so I'm welcoming you.
1
SPEAKER_04
 So that's actually something, that's one of the first things they teach you in the foundation when it came to negotiation in interviewing school.
1
SPEAKER_04
Have an open posture when you speak to people.
1
SPEAKER_04
This is the open posture.
1
SPEAKER_04
Exactly what you do with everybody you meet.
1
SPEAKER_04
And it's smart that you do that because it's disarming, they feel relaxed, they feel welcome, they feel open, they connect with you, and you're gonna have a better interview.
1
SPEAKER_01
 Intuitively, I mean, or just like, unconsciously, the person's gonna feel safe, whether they're even aware that I'm doing that or not, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
I even try to be conscious.
1
SPEAKER_01
I move my hands a lot on my table, and you know, I cover my chin or I'm thinking, but I always try to go back to having my hands open here, even just in a relaxed position.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don't know if you notice that, or I'll bring it to the side here so you can see them, or I'll kind of have them here in like a open, collapsed position.
1
SPEAKER_01
 as much as possible, because I want people to feel, hey, I'm here, you know, I'm open.
1
SPEAKER_01
But then I'll grab my pan or I'll do something, but it always tries to go back to a relaxed position.
1
SPEAKER_04
 So the hands, again, is the same thing.
1
SPEAKER_04
You keep your hands, and I don't wanna say, it's not always a sign of deception, but one of the things they did teach you is just when you're talking to people, and you see the hands disappear, so you see somebody's hands, they sit on their hands, or their hands are under the table, never great signs.
1
SPEAKER_04
It doesn't mean, again, it's just a red flag.
1
SPEAKER_04
So if I have my hands up here, you ask me a question that I don't like, and my hands go down here,
1
SPEAKER_04
 You should take note.
1
SPEAKER_04
Why did Evie do that?
1
SPEAKER_04
What did I just do that caused her to do that?
1
SPEAKER_04
But the fact that you keep your hands out, and this is important, when you're communicating with people, again, connection, connection, connection.
1
SPEAKER_04
Why does it matter?
1
SPEAKER_04
And not that you want to be nice to people.
1
SPEAKER_04
It's not about being nice.
1
SPEAKER_04
It is about
1
SPEAKER_04
 Negotiating it's about communicating.
1
SPEAKER_04
It's about connecting when you do all these things.
1
SPEAKER_04
You will be more successful People will want to work with you.
1
SPEAKER_04
They will want to date you.
1
SPEAKER_04
They will want to be around you They will want it.
1
SPEAKER_04
They will want to be in your vicinity This makes your life so much better because everyone sits and they memorize strategies and tactics and techniques You are dealing with people at the end of the day You master people you will master everything.
1
SPEAKER_02
Mm-hmm
1
SPEAKER_04
 and it's so important, but we throw it away.
1
SPEAKER_04
We throw it away, and something as small as what you're doing, welcoming people, open hands, the hands out, being open, connecting, I'm showing you my hands, I'm here, Evy, I'm looking at you.
1
SPEAKER_04
Slam dunks all the way.
1
SPEAKER_04
Or touchdowns, excuse me, you play football.
1
SPEAKER_01
Touchdowns all the way, Luis.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
Now how does someone, when they're hearing you say this, and say they want to master the relationships in dating or in business or their career, how do they,
1
SPEAKER_01
 What are some of the key strategies to mastering them in business and relationships without people feeling like they're manipulating or creating a toxic environment with those individuals?
1
SPEAKER_04
So here's the thing, right?
1
SPEAKER_04
So you're saying manipulation, trick, am I tricking people, right?
1
SPEAKER_04
 I hear this a lot.
1
SPEAKER_04
I'm gonna give you an example or analogy.
1
SPEAKER_04
If you work out every day, right?
1
SPEAKER_04
Let's say you work out every day, you're muscular, you're strong, you're all that, right?
1
SPEAKER_04
Could you use that to help people, to help save people, keep people safe?
1
SPEAKER_04
Could you also use that to harm people?
1
SPEAKER_04
So this is the same thing.
1
SPEAKER_04
So all this stuff that we talk about, could somebody use it to harm someone?
1
SPEAKER_04
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_04
 It's like anything, you could take something that's meant to be positive and twist it.
1
SPEAKER_04
But I'll tell you this, when you come from a genuine place, people feel it.
1
SPEAKER_04
They feel it.
1
SPEAKER_04
When you are doing it with the goal to manipulate people, people feel that too.
1
SPEAKER_01
 What do you think are the subtle cues that people could tell if someone is trying to be more manipulative or more from a place of power, control, competition rather than a genuineness?
1
SPEAKER_01
Where it's subtle, it's not as clear.
1
SPEAKER_04
I think one is if somebody is very over the top, when I have somebody say Evie you can trust me.
2
SPEAKER_00
 this like we were talking entertainment business before you and I when I hear when I hear certain things when people try very hard to oversell this is a guarantee this is gonna happen no matter what this is easy you know all these things yeah those are always red flags I'm always thinking why is this person trying so hard to sell me I feel that I'm being sold versus look I'm gonna work with you I'll do everything I can you can connect with people and there's there's a genuine part that comes through but again
2
SPEAKER_00
 But it's also, does the behavior match what they say?
2
SPEAKER_00
So if somebody's saying, I'm gonna do this, you're so important to me, you're my most important client, you're my this, you're my that, but then they don't call back, they don't answer their cell phone, or when you do call, hey, I've got two minutes, I'm super busy, they don't deliver.
2
SPEAKER_00
When they don't do those things, that tells you what?
2
SPEAKER_00
 so that it's not in harmony.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'll bring another example.
2
SPEAKER_01
They're not in alignment of what they're saying and how their behaviors are acting.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
One of the things with you, and this is completely genuine, when one of the things that I appreciate about you where I saw that who you are and what you say is in harmony with what you do is, and I brought this up to you earlier when we were doing our hello,
2
SPEAKER_00
 When I did my first interview with you, at the top of the description box, the first line was about subscribe to my show and all that, and the second line was, hey guys, Evie's book, blah, blah, blah, blah.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I said, look, he put that up top.
2
SPEAKER_00
You, your behavior, what you said and what you showed me, what you were verbally telling me matched up with what you showed me.
2
SPEAKER_00
 That's what you wanna look at.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because you'd be like, Evie, you're great, you're this, you're that, and then if it's like not there, if it's like all the way at the bottom, or it's all about Lewis, Lewis, Lewis, Lewis, and my guess doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter.
2
SPEAKER_00
You can tell me I matter all day long, but people miss that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Don't just listen to, I don't wanna say the garbage people say, just don't look at what they do.
2
SPEAKER_01
 It's like trusting to an extent.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay, you're selling me, you're going to do something, I trust you, and let's see if the behaviors continue to match the words.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'll even better you this.
2
SPEAKER_00
You don't want to give unconditional trust.
2
SPEAKER_00
There's certain levels of trust.
2
SPEAKER_00
You give conditional trust.
2
SPEAKER_01
What's the difference?
2
SPEAKER_00
Conditional trust is I give you a little bit here, a little bit here, a little bit here, and I test you.
2
SPEAKER_00
Not I test you, but I watch.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And I wait, but what we do is, oh my God, I love Louis, he's great, which you are, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm gonna give him all my trust.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm gonna tell him everything.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then I get confused as to why do I feel betrayed later?
2
SPEAKER_00
Why do I this?
2
SPEAKER_00
Because you just gave it away like it's nothing.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's like you just took all the money out of your wallet and you just did this.
2
SPEAKER_00
 When you go to the store, what do you do?
2
SPEAKER_00
You ask, how much is that?
2
SPEAKER_00
Let me give you exactly what it costs.
2
SPEAKER_00
So you should be that way with your trust.
2
SPEAKER_00
You shouldn't be like just giving it out to people.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's conditional.
2
SPEAKER_01
Let me ask you a question about being vulnerable with people, being honest, open, and vulnerable with people, whether in your first few interactions with them or you've known them for a while.
2
SPEAKER_01
Should we be thinking about ourselves and saying,
2
SPEAKER_01
 I trust myself enough where I can be vulnerable and open with people no matter how they receive it?
2
SPEAKER_01
Or should we hold back who we are or some things about us to protect ourselves or to feel if they're trustworthy enough to have that information?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes, to the latter.
2
SPEAKER_01
Really?
2
SPEAKER_01
Interesting.
2
SPEAKER_00
I hear this vulnerable, vulnerable.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Nobody, one, nobody wants to see it all day long.
2
SPEAKER_00
Everybody's got their own problems and their own stuff they're dealing with.
2
SPEAKER_00
I will tell you this though, when people feel too comfortable with you, they will challenge you more.
2
SPEAKER_01
In what ways?
2
SPEAKER_00
They will test you more, they will push back more.
2
SPEAKER_00
 the more comfortable people feel with you.
2
SPEAKER_00
Think of it, the people that know you the best in life, they push you back, they push back the most, they'll call you out the most.
2
SPEAKER_00
And sometimes not in a healthy way, in an unpleasant way.
2
SPEAKER_00
But if you're, there's something powerful with keeping some things about you to you.
2
SPEAKER_00
You don't have to be an open book.
2
SPEAKER_00
I know this goes against a lot of, be vulnerable, be vulnerable.
2
SPEAKER_00
 I'm not telling you to be a jerk and I'm not telling you to conceal everything about you.
2
SPEAKER_00
What I'm telling you is you need to have a filter.
2
SPEAKER_00
Nobody needs to know, people don't need to know everything about you.
2
SPEAKER_00
Keep that stuff to yourself.
2
SPEAKER_01
When you were doing your interviews or interrogations,
2
SPEAKER_01
 Would you ever or did you ever become too vulnerable as a, I guess, strategy to try to get the other person to open up and share their vulnerabilities and kind of reveal that they did the thing they did?
2
SPEAKER_00
I think what I just did is I empathized the most.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because in truth, can I... I can see how you feel about this.
2
SPEAKER_01
I haven't experienced or I had a feeling here.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, if it's a criminal investigation, hopefully not.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, you killed her?
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, I could see why.
2
SPEAKER_01
Why I felt this in my life or whatever it may be.
2
SPEAKER_00
 No, because that would be disingenuous.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I'll give you an example.
2
SPEAKER_00
There's a difference between pretending I understand and understanding.
2
SPEAKER_00
Empathy is I've been there with you.
2
SPEAKER_00
So when I came in, I said, Louis, I'm really sorry about your dad, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
So I've also lost my dad.
2
SPEAKER_00
So if I said to you, Louis, I'm sorry about your dad, I understand how that feels.
2
SPEAKER_00
Can I say that to you?
2
SPEAKER_00
Do I understand?
2
SPEAKER_00
 because I lost my dad.
2
SPEAKER_00
You would say, she lost her father too, so she understands.
2
SPEAKER_00
Now, if I never lost my father.
2
SPEAKER_01
You couldn't say that.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I said that to you, you kind of be like, you don't really know.
2
SPEAKER_00
You still have your dad.
2
SPEAKER_00
So when you empathize with someone in a scenario where let's say you had just lost your dad and I didn't, I would try to empathize.
2
SPEAKER_00
That must be very difficult.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm sorry to hear that.
2
SPEAKER_00
 now but not relating it to yourself not relating to myself so the only way you can relate it to yourself and it be genuine is if you experienced the exact same thing the other person did so in this scenario yes you lost your dad I lost my dad so then you would feel genuine
2
SPEAKER_00
 So it would be the same thing when you speak to people.
2
SPEAKER_00
So it's how you say it.
2
SPEAKER_00
So if you're not experiencing the exact same thing, the best thing to do is say, I'm sorry to hear that.
2
SPEAKER_00
That must be so difficult.
2
SPEAKER_00
I can't imagine.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm here for you if you need anything.
2
SPEAKER_00
You would do something along those lines.
2
SPEAKER_00
Instead of saying, I know how you feel.
2
SPEAKER_00
And trying to then, and this is what you don't want to do.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Because when you first told me, actually, I didn't say to you I lost my dad.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because I would take away from what I was sharing with you.
2
SPEAKER_00
I made it now about me.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, you lost your dad?
2
SPEAKER_00
Let me tell you about my dad.
2
SPEAKER_00
And my dad died too.
2
SPEAKER_00
He died of cancer and all this stuff.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I'll go into that story.
2
SPEAKER_00
It takes away.
2
SPEAKER_00
So it's your story, your narrative, and I'm going to let you just talk to me about it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then if later mine comes up, fine.
2
SPEAKER_00
 So you don't want to make it about you.
2
SPEAKER_00
This is that me, me, me, me syndrome.
2
SPEAKER_00
When people are speaking to you, allow them to own their story.
2
SPEAKER_00
Don't feel that you have to be, oh yeah, I do the same thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah, this.
2
SPEAKER_00
They don't, one, they don't typically care.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Unless you've been through the exact same thing and you feel that by bringing that up, that person needs that, fine.
2
SPEAKER_01
But don't do it.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you don't need to, don't bring it in.
2
SPEAKER_00
Don't bring in the noise.
2
SPEAKER_00
Let that person's story be their story because what you're doing is you're bringing in your own stuff.
2
SPEAKER_01
Give them that moment.
2
SPEAKER_00
Let them have that moment.
2
SPEAKER_01
I want to go back to something you mentioned briefly that I thought would be interesting for people.
2
SPEAKER_01
 When you're asking someone, when you wanna get information out of someone, boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever, interrogating a criminal, whatever it might be, is it more- Employee.
2
SPEAKER_01
Employee, yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
Is it more effective to ask direct question, did you do this?
2
SPEAKER_01
Or you did this?
2
SPEAKER_01
Or is it better to ask an open-ended question and see what happens next?
2
SPEAKER_00
 So direct questions are not good, and this is why.
2
SPEAKER_00
Most people do this, they go in for the kill, so to speak, and they get garbage.
2
SPEAKER_00
You get nothing.
2
SPEAKER_01
What do people say?
2
SPEAKER_00
They shut you down.
2
SPEAKER_00
And especially if it's a sensitive topic, they're not gonna wanna tell you.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's like, did you do it?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, hey, I did, let me tell you, sit down.
2
SPEAKER_00
You wanna let people adjust.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's almost like you put their feet in the water, in the pool.
2
SPEAKER_00
Your feet, when you go into the ocean, you acclimate to the water.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Some people dive in, yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes I jump in because it's too cold to just keep going.
2
SPEAKER_00
But for the most part, the idea is you acclimate, and then by the time you get in, you're the same temperature.
2
SPEAKER_00
When you speak to people, then that's the way to do it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you don't have to get the information in that moment.
2
SPEAKER_00
You want to work on people over time.
2
SPEAKER_00
So you want to get admissions, which is pieces of information, if we make it about a crime, per se, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Rather than going, well, did you do this?
2
SPEAKER_00
Did you do this to this person?
2
SPEAKER_00
 rape this person, kill this person, steal this thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I would never say steal.
2
SPEAKER_00
Sounds ugly.
2
SPEAKER_00
Did you take this?
2
SPEAKER_00
Rape sounds ugly too.
2
SPEAKER_00
I would never say rape or kill.
2
SPEAKER_00
I would say, did you hurt this person?
2
SPEAKER_00
 Did you, you know, lose yourself?
2
SPEAKER_00
I would use different terms.
2
SPEAKER_01
Interesting.
2
SPEAKER_00
Sounds nicer.
2
SPEAKER_00
Even if somebody lies.
2
SPEAKER_00
Hey man, you're lying to me.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, Louis is a good, no.
2
SPEAKER_00
Louis, you're not, there's something you're missing.
2
SPEAKER_00
There's something you didn't tell me.
2
SPEAKER_00
I feel there's a part of the story I'm missing here.
2
SPEAKER_00
I want you to be comfortable enough to tell me.
2
SPEAKER_01
So you would say that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Sounds different.
2
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
2
SPEAKER_00
So, that's one.
2
SPEAKER_00
Think about the words coming out of your mouth.
2
SPEAKER_00
 What do I sound like?
2
SPEAKER_00
And then more importantly, what do they hear when I speak?
2
SPEAKER_00
Not what do I think I'm saying, because everyone's like, oh, I just said this.
2
SPEAKER_00
What did I say?
2
SPEAKER_00
It doesn't matter what you think you said.
2
SPEAKER_00
What matters is what they hear when you speak based off of their viewpoint, their biases, their DNA, their genetic makeup, their drama, their trauma, all their stuff, because they bring that in when they communicate.
2
SPEAKER_00
So you have to keep that in mind.
2
SPEAKER_01
 Are you also thinking about, are you trying to learn about the background of the person before you have a conversation with them and get as much information on them before?
2
SPEAKER_01
Where they're from, who they are, you know.
2
SPEAKER_00
Depends what you want.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
 What is your goal?
2
SPEAKER_00
What are you looking to get?
2
SPEAKER_00
And obviously sometimes time's a factor.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you're hiring somebody, I think when you, here's some tips, when you're doing your job interviews or you're bringing people on or you're working with people, you wanna sit them down.
2
SPEAKER_00
You don't wanna sit like the way we are here with a table between you and the person.
2
SPEAKER_00
You want an open space so you've got like two, put them on the sofas, sit down.
2
SPEAKER_00
That's openness.
2
SPEAKER_00
This is a barrier.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's just, it causes a break between us.
2
SPEAKER_00
There's also formality with the table.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And I feel like I'm being interviewed.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's more professional than as opposed to relaxed.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
And the thing is this, if you want to know who you're hiring, let's say, or who you're dealing with, or who you're bringing into your space, you want openness and you want them to speak to you in an open way.
2
SPEAKER_00
Freely.
2
SPEAKER_00
So you can get all the information.
2
SPEAKER_00
Tell me about yourself.
2
SPEAKER_00
How did you grow up?
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, where are you from?
2
SPEAKER_00
No kidding.
2
SPEAKER_00
What's about this?
2
SPEAKER_00
What about that?
2
SPEAKER_00
Now you get them and then you flow into the other questions.
2
SPEAKER_00
 But if people feel like they're being interviewed, that they're gonna bring that.
2
SPEAKER_00
So you wanna get people to feel comfortable and you wanna have that openness.
2
SPEAKER_00
Also, when you have a table, it cuts off the lower body.
2
SPEAKER_01
You can't see their triggers, can you?
2
SPEAKER_00
There's tells.
2
SPEAKER_00
There's tells.
2
SPEAKER_01
I could be- If you cross their legs, they're fidgety.
2
SPEAKER_00
They're fidgety.
2
SPEAKER_00
Maybe you ask me a question about...
2
SPEAKER_00
 Have you did you ever get fired from a job and then I crossed my legs as soon as you asked me that question You're not gonna say anything.
2
SPEAKER_00
You're gonna take a mental note.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, have you just crossed her legs right when asked her that question?
2
SPEAKER_00
Why I need to I need to I need to I need to pay attention to that.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes
2
SPEAKER_00
 Right?
2
SPEAKER_00
So that you want to just take notice.
2
SPEAKER_00
The whole goal is to be curious.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so if we can give it a term, maybe you need to Lewis house yourself.
2
SPEAKER_01
There you go.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
When people come in, you are super curious about them.
2
SPEAKER_00
You care about everybody who comes in, who's coming in.
2
SPEAKER_00
I want to know everything I can about them that they're willing to share.
2
SPEAKER_00
I want them to feel comfortable to open up.
2
SPEAKER_00
I get a great interview.
2
SPEAKER_00
My viewers love it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Boom.
2
SPEAKER_00
 This is like this with everything else.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you can bring that level of passion and curiosity with people, everyone's going to be open books.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes, that's it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Everyone's going to be an open book for you.
2
SPEAKER_01
Now, I'm curious about this with, I think you said you're married for 12 years, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes, I think so.
2
SPEAKER_01
He's going to be upset right now.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm trying to do the math in my head.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And he's in the Secret Service as well, correct?
2
SPEAKER_00
He was, he was a former special agent.
2
SPEAKER_00
I can't give too much away, but he does work with the federal government in a special agent capacity.
2
SPEAKER_01
So you were both in a similar field, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Exact same field, yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
Training, all of that.
2
SPEAKER_01
 How does that work in intimacy and relationships when you both have these skills?
2
SPEAKER_01
Is it incredible or are you guys constantly assessing and be like, huh, I'm noticing this strategy he's using, I'm noticing this.
2
SPEAKER_01
Are you able to flow into it?
2
SPEAKER_00
So as people sometimes we get, like I'm gonna get emotional or he'll get emotional.
2
SPEAKER_00
And when I see certain things happen,
2
SPEAKER_00
 I will identify what's happening, okay?
2
SPEAKER_00
He needs to vent, he needs to say this.
2
SPEAKER_00
Let me let him, he's not gonna hear anything I say.
2
SPEAKER_01
Until he gets it out.
2
SPEAKER_00
He gets it out.
2
SPEAKER_00
So you just have to have, and I think this goes across the board for all relationships, if you can just, here's my word, shut up.
2
SPEAKER_01
And let someone communicate.
2
SPEAKER_00
Just let them go.
2
SPEAKER_00
Even if you don't like what they're saying, just let them say it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Let them get it off their chest.
2
SPEAKER_00
 then speak.
2
SPEAKER_00
That's super powerful.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's going to help you.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then they're also able to listen to you.
2
SPEAKER_00
So sometimes I will pull in a strategy or sometimes we'll argue and he'll do a technique on me and I'll realize it after the fact.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm like, oh, I know what he did.
2
SPEAKER_00
But then I'll realize I understand why he did it.
2
SPEAKER_00
The whole goal of this stuff, it is not to manipulate or trick people.
2
SPEAKER_00
The goal of this stuff is to help progress a conversation.
2
SPEAKER_00
You don't want to get stuck.
2
SPEAKER_00
When you feel stuck with people, this is why.
2
SPEAKER_00
 You want progress.
2
SPEAKER_00
We all want progress in our lives, at work, in our conversations, in our relationship.
2
SPEAKER_00
So when you are stuck, you have to ask yourself, what am I doing that is causing me to be stuck?
2
SPEAKER_00
I want progress.
2
SPEAKER_00
So even in a conversation or dialogue, everything you do is to help keep the dialogue going in furtherance.
2
SPEAKER_00
In furtherance, how am I progressing the dialogue?
2
SPEAKER_00
Think of it this way, and there's something called,
2
SPEAKER_00
 The behavior wheel and it's actually these amazing researchers The allisons were the ones who created this and they teach it to a lot of the top negotiators.
2
SPEAKER_00
They actually teach the allison wheel The allisons allisons are their husband and wife who do research and there's something called the behavior wheel behavior wheel Okay, and this is where they teach you again to identify behavior And when you see a behavior, how do you respond to that behavior?
2
SPEAKER_01
How does the wheel look like?
2
SPEAKER_00
 So it's a circle.
2
SPEAKER_01
What's on the wheel?
2
SPEAKER_00
It's got all the different behaviors, but I'll give you an example of one.
2
SPEAKER_00
Let's do this, what we're talking about.
2
SPEAKER_00
You're having a conversation with someone and they are, let's put them at the top of the wheel.
2
SPEAKER_00
They're high power.
2
SPEAKER_00
They're controlling the conversation.
2
SPEAKER_00
They're setting the agenda.
2
SPEAKER_00
Now, when they are there, the other person has to go low power.
2
SPEAKER_00
 to allow them.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because you can't both be in that position at the same time.
2
SPEAKER_01
No.
2
SPEAKER_00
Look at this interview.
2
SPEAKER_00
What do you and I do?
2
SPEAKER_00
We flip.
2
SPEAKER_00
When you're high power, when you're controlling the agenda, I go down here.
2
SPEAKER_00
When I'm speaking and I'm high power, I go back up here, you go down here.
2
SPEAKER_00
You understand for me to have progress in this conversation.
2
SPEAKER_00
 We have to, if he's high power, I go low power.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that creates progress.
2
SPEAKER_00
Now if we're both high power, we're competing, we're arguing, nobody hears anything.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And so relationships are like that, even marriages, because you brought up marriages.
2
SPEAKER_00
So if somebody is in this high power, you go down here.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then when you can, you switch and you go up here.
2
SPEAKER_00
But if both people are up here, it's not going to work.
2
SPEAKER_00
And if both people are down here, it doesn't work.
2
SPEAKER_00
This is kind of a, where do you want to go eat?
2
SPEAKER_00
I don't know.
2
SPEAKER_00
Where do you want to go eat?
2
SPEAKER_00
I don't know.
2
SPEAKER_00
What do you want to go eat?
2
SPEAKER_00
You guys are going to starve.
2
SPEAKER_00
 because somebody has to go high power.
2
SPEAKER_00
That's the behavior wheel.
2
SPEAKER_00
Now that would be an example of the good behavior wheel.
2
SPEAKER_00
And to the Allison's, I'm sorry, I'm doing my best, I don't want to butcher your work, because they do some great, great stuff.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you go, now some people will visit the bad wheel.
2
SPEAKER_00
 The same thing, badwill.
2
SPEAKER_00
Badwill is when you have somebody who's very dominant, who's very domineering.
2
SPEAKER_00
They're trying to be high power, but it's not in a good way.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's aggressive.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's very aggressive.
2
SPEAKER_00
It shuts people down.
2
SPEAKER_00
Now here you have to be careful, and we see this in relationships, not just partner relationships, friendships, supervisors.
2
SPEAKER_00
When you have somebody like that, and you recognize they're high power, but in an unhealthy, not in a good way,
2
SPEAKER_00
 And you go low power, usually- You're just gonna take advantage of probably, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes, you become now weak.
2
SPEAKER_01
A doormat.
2
SPEAKER_00
Submissive, you become the doormat.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so what happens is, over a period of time, you've helped groom that person to stay here, and you go here.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that's why sometimes we'll see in relationships, there's that one person who's the aggressor, who's up here, and the other person who's super avoidant, submissive, and that's not good.
2
SPEAKER_01
How does that person get out of that position
2
SPEAKER_00
 Upsetting and making the other person more aggressive So what you would do is you don't want to you want to go back to the initial example I gave you which is the good love you're both.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so One thing is when I have bad behavior.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don't want to mirror that bad behavior because it escalates So what you always want to do is present the behavior you want the other person to have You don't mirror them
2
SPEAKER_01
 Just because they're being in that don't go there behavioral state.
2
SPEAKER_00
You don't match them You don't match it because it's gonna the whole thing's gonna take a nosedive So you want to say I see now this is where it gets important.
2
SPEAKER_00
I see this behavior.
2
SPEAKER_00
I know what I'm seeing It's not personal.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm not gonna get emotional and upset and how dare you know that even though I can think it and feel it but if I identify the behavior, it's not as
2
SPEAKER_00
 It's not as piercing.
2
SPEAKER_00
I know what I'm seeing.
2
SPEAKER_00
I understand this behavior.
2
SPEAKER_00
I know what's happening here.
2
SPEAKER_00
Now, I'm not going to be weak, submissive.
2
SPEAKER_00
What I'm going to do is I'm going to go back to this good wheel.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm going to go low.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm going to go down here.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I'm going to listen.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I'm going to say, OK, well, tell me why you feel that way.
2
SPEAKER_00
 So I can still maintain eye contact with you.
2
SPEAKER_00
I can still sit here.
2
SPEAKER_00
I can still Show you that I'm assertive.
2
SPEAKER_00
So this is where I'm listening, but I'm not becoming submissive or avoidant or small or Carrying away or letting you take over.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah I'm taking this low power part of the wheel But I'm here.
2
SPEAKER_01
So how does someone command respect then if they're in the lower part of the wheel you can still do that.
2
SPEAKER_01
I
2
SPEAKER_00
 Well, it depends.
2
SPEAKER_00
So here's the thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
I feel like we're doing a whole psychology course.
2
SPEAKER_00
One thing is if you have a relationship and for a long period of time you've had that dynamic, that power dynamic that we just talked, one person's the dominant, the this, the that, and the other person's down here.
2
SPEAKER_00
Once that's been set.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's so hard, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
 Very hard, almost impossible to get rid of.
2
SPEAKER_00
I've actually consulted with people who have come to me and said, I have a boss who's this way.
2
SPEAKER_00
And one of the first things I ask is, how long you've been there?
2
SPEAKER_00
How long this?
2
SPEAKER_00
And when I hear like three, four, five years.
2
SPEAKER_01
A boss isn't changing.
2
SPEAKER_00
 You're going to have to find another job.
2
SPEAKER_01
The only way that boss would change is if they got in trouble, everyone leaves or he starts losing a lot of money or something where it's a big breakdown.
2
SPEAKER_01
You'd have to have a big breakdown.
2
SPEAKER_01
 and do a lot of work on yourself to say, oh, I'm the problem, not everyone else around me.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right, but how many people actually get to that solution that they're the problem?
2
SPEAKER_01
Very few.
2
SPEAKER_00
Most people would be like, look, look at the people out there.
2
SPEAKER_00
Look at Gen Z or Gen this or Gen that.
2
SPEAKER_00
That's what's gonna happen.
2
SPEAKER_01
Lazy or this or that, whatever.
2
SPEAKER_00
They're gonna deflect.
2
SPEAKER_00
So to answer your question, if you've groomed someone and you've been groomed to be here and you shift, unless that person is on board and they realize what they're doing,
2
SPEAKER_00
 It'll work only then.
2
SPEAKER_00
If they don't, it's gonna be like, who are you now?
2
SPEAKER_00
What are you doing now?
2
SPEAKER_00
What do you think you are?
2
SPEAKER_01
It's probably even harder in an intimate relationship then.
2
SPEAKER_01
You've been with someone for five, 10 years and you've had this dynamic.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's gotta be so challenging to break that mold, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
 It is.
2
SPEAKER_00
It is hard.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you break it, is that person gonna... The key is if you can break it without them knowing you're breaking it.
2
SPEAKER_00
So when you... Little subtleties.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
So you have to un-groom them.
2
SPEAKER_00
You almost have to groom them the opposite way.
2
SPEAKER_01
So much work it seems like.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, depends if you want to stay or if you want to go.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Truthful in a certain scenario like that, it is very hard, because you're trying to change long-term behavior that's been set.
2
SPEAKER_00
That's my role, that's your role, it's set.
2
SPEAKER_00
And now you're trying to change the roles and that person's in it.
2
SPEAKER_00
So hard.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don't want everybody to go get divorced or break up, but be aware, what you would have to do is slowly groom that person to do the opposite.
2
SPEAKER_00
Unless you can convince them
2
SPEAKER_00
 hey, you're a part of this problem.
2
SPEAKER_01
It might be tough, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that's where acceptance comes in at some point.
2
SPEAKER_01
You just have to accept who you're with and realize this is who you're with.
2
SPEAKER_01
You either accept it, you try to change it, or you leave, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
It's like, what choices do you have?
2
SPEAKER_00
Some people do.
2
SPEAKER_00
Some people will accept it.
2
SPEAKER_00
They'll get in that role, they're comfortable in that role, they know that role, they don't want to get out of that role, and they stay there.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it's also, it's not so bad.
2
SPEAKER_00
I worked with someone, actually this isn't,
2
SPEAKER_00
 I've heard this a couple of times.
2
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes, and I'm not a relationship expert, but I've had people speak to me about this dynamic.
2
SPEAKER_00
And they will tell me, well, you know what?
2
SPEAKER_00
He doesn't hit me.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's not that bad.
2
SPEAKER_01
Just screams once a week.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so I'll hear that and I'll say to the person, your baseline or your threshold of whether it's healthy or not is, well, he doesn't hit me.
2
SPEAKER_01
 Why do people justify those things and why they'll stay in a toxic work environment or intimate relationship when they make these justifications?
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, at least it's not this and this and this.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm invested.
2
SPEAKER_00
I've invested.
2
SPEAKER_00
How many years you've been with your girlfriend?
2
SPEAKER_01
 About a year.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay, a year.
2
SPEAKER_00
You've been with her a year.
2
SPEAKER_00
So if there's issues happening in your mind and heart, you're like, I put a year into this.
2
SPEAKER_00
I've invested in this.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don't want this to go away.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that's what happens.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think that's one.
2
SPEAKER_00
We invest so much time and energy.
2
SPEAKER_00
I have to start over.
2
SPEAKER_00
I have to this.
2
SPEAKER_00
We do that.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And then maybe if we're, especially if we're in that submissive role, we've already, our confidence in our... Is lower.
2
SPEAKER_00
Is lower, we feel weaker, we've had somebody push us there, and it's harder now to get out of it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And we, it's amazing what a human being can normalize in their life.
2
SPEAKER_00
Especially when there were cases of abuse, or especially children.
2
SPEAKER_00
 when abused, you would be amazed as to how a human being can adapt to the most egregious
2
SPEAKER_00
 of environments, and that becomes their norm, where somebody on the outside would be like, I can't believe this.
2
SPEAKER_00
We have this amazing ability to adapt to a fault.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's kind of like the analogy of the frog in hot water.
2
SPEAKER_01
Have you heard this, where it's like a frog will stay in hot water, and the more and more it gets hotter, they'll just keep staying there because they're used to it, as opposed to just jumping out of a pot, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
And then they'll just die in boiling water eventually, like eventually you'll die.
2
SPEAKER_00
 But that's how everything is, it's incremental.
2
SPEAKER_00
People will do a little bit to you, they test it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, Louis still stayed.
2
SPEAKER_01
I'm still here, so I can get away with more and push and push.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, Louis did it, okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that's why it's called a grooming process.
2
SPEAKER_00
You are groomed and then that's why you have those moments where you stop and you think, how did I get here?
2
SPEAKER_00
 This isn't me, it's not your fault.
2
SPEAKER_00
But this is why looking at behavior is so important.
2
SPEAKER_00
Don't listen to the garbage people give you, look at what they show you.
2
SPEAKER_01
Have you seen Tinder Swindler?
2
SPEAKER_00
 No, it's next on my list.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's like the grooming process.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's And when you watch it from an outsider, you think how could this happen?
2
SPEAKER_01
But like you said the more you're groomed and you tied into someone Romantically and psychologically and emotionally you stay even when the behavior gets worse and worse, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
It's this you know, you'll see when you see it, but it's crazy, you know, it will also help people and
2
SPEAKER_00
 Look at who's around you.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don't know if you do this.
2
SPEAKER_01
I would I would and I'm making an assumption that you do Please tell me I would assume or presume that you are very thoughtful about who you keep around 100% 100% in work environment in personal life 100% and I'm even more it's interesting because before the pandemic I
2
SPEAKER_01
 Something I realized is I would connect with almost everyone and I would and I would give time to a lot of people I'd give meetings or I'd want to like oh, let's meet this person to meet this person and now it's like oh, I really have like a Handful of core friends that I want to see consistently right and then other friends I'll see when I have time, but it's like those core friends and
2
SPEAKER_01
 core team members, it's like really getting clear on that environment of the people that I wanna have in my life.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it's been a powerful, eye-opening experience.
2
SPEAKER_00
Why do you do that?
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, the clearer I am on my mission and my time, I'm like, I don't wanna spread my time all over the place.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's keeping me from my mission and the things that bring me the most joy.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it's also not deepening those relationships that I have that are really meaningful.
2
SPEAKER_01
 So I want to spend more time with quality people that enrich my life where we are in collaboration with each other in terms of just our experiences and our conversations and deepening those relationships.
2
SPEAKER_01
So that's where I'm at right now.
2
SPEAKER_00
 So when you do that, you have these people that you select to have around you that makes you more solid, more centered, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
It helps you in business relationships and everything.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so when you have somebody who's maybe not so good come in, this is why having a good core of people around you, these people will notice that.
2
SPEAKER_01
Really?
2
SPEAKER_00
 Yes, they will help you.
2
SPEAKER_00
So when you have one, they become your norm.
2
SPEAKER_00
Solid, grounded people become your norm.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you're surrounded by that, then that's what you know, that's what you're used to.
2
SPEAKER_00
So if you have somebody, and I don't like this word, I just can't think of another one, toxic come along, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Because we label, everyone labels everybody toxic.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, they're toxic.
2
SPEAKER_00
So if somebody toxic for you comes along,
2
SPEAKER_00
 You will notice that quicker.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because those people that are around you, they'll notice it, but they've also given you that stability.
2
SPEAKER_00
Now, if you are surrounded by off people, people who take advantage of you, there's a lot of noise, talking to everybody, getting everybody's chatter, you're not gonna pick that up.
2
SPEAKER_00
So, one of the ways to offset this thing that we're talking about is to also really select who's around you.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Because they make you steady or not steady.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don't care how strong I have a strong identity as a person You have a strong identity, but if you and I surround ourselves with buffoons Yeah, yeah, we're gonna be off right we're not gonna be as confident or centered or strong when things are off We're gonna we're gonna have that weakness people bring can either bring out strength or weakness.
2
SPEAKER_01
That's why I think it's so
3
SPEAKER_01
 crucial you know I've done I feel like I've learned so many lessons over the years of in multiple relationships that I've been in right I feel like you've got a you've got to learn the hard way sometimes when you when you when you keep making these mistakes in the past and all these
3
SPEAKER_01
 Previous relationships that I've been in have given me awareness of my flaws, my insecurities, why I chose certain people, all these different things.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I never put blame on anyone else.
3
SPEAKER_01
It's always about me and why I chose.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I remember interviewing Erwin McManus, who's a pastor here at a church called Mosaic.
3
SPEAKER_01
 I was asking he's been married for I think four decades right and he said this beautiful relationship I go, what's the secret to having a healthy long relationship?
3
SPEAKER_01
With someone the same person, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
And he said I hate to say this but 80% of it the happiness and the joy is who you choose Is the person you choose that's 80% of the success, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
So if you choose the wrong fit you're gonna be stressed out and dealing with conflict constantly and
3
SPEAKER_01
 Having a great partner, especially someone like Martha, who's so intuitive, she also kind of keeps me, I don't want to say protected, but can just be like, hmm, that was an interesting conversation with that person.
3
SPEAKER_01
Make sure you watch out for their energy or whatever.
3
SPEAKER_01
Just the subtleties of having someone strong in your corner, a friend or a partner, who can read people as well.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think it's really important.
3
SPEAKER_01
Who has got a solid identity like yourself.
3
SPEAKER_02
 I think you're right, and I'm not a relationship person.
3
SPEAKER_02
I can only speak for my own.
3
SPEAKER_02
I picked a solid partner, and he looks out for me.
3
SPEAKER_02
He'll see things.
3
SPEAKER_02
I remember even when I began doing the news, I wasn't paying attention as much as I should have to my body posture, because it's TV, and during commercial break, he'd be like, sit up, you're slouching.
3
SPEAKER_01
 You also said something that, earlier you said, oh yeah, he watched our conversation and he thinks you're like a good guy or something like that.
3
SPEAKER_01
A good person, yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, a good person.
3
SPEAKER_01
So are you guys doing this for each other where he'll watch your interviews that you're on and be like, huh, something off about that interviewer, be careful there.
3
SPEAKER_02
 Think of it this way, this is the person you have as your companion.
3
SPEAKER_02
So what the pastor said was right because first, this is the person you have the most exposure to.
3
SPEAKER_02
They know you the most intimately and you want a solid person.
3
SPEAKER_02
If you can be on equal playing field, that's powerful.
3
SPEAKER_02
When one is like this or it's like this, it's hard.
3
SPEAKER_01
 So when you're trying to fix someone or you're trying to coach someone in a relationship, what usually happens?
3
SPEAKER_01
I know you're not the relationship coach here, but.
3
SPEAKER_02
Identify the behavior.
3
SPEAKER_02
 I always go back to behavior because when I tell you, you did this to me and you this, it means something is wrong with you and you don't understand and then you feel attacked.
3
SPEAKER_02
But when you can identify the behavior and say you did this specific thing or said the specific thing, now you're giving somebody something visual to see.
3
SPEAKER_01
 It's not them as a human being, it's the thing that happened.
3
SPEAKER_02
It's the thing you did here.
3
SPEAKER_02
Because you did this thing or said this thing, it caused this.
3
SPEAKER_02
This is why it's upsetting to me.
3
SPEAKER_02
Now, that person in that moment will either understand, be able to communicate and be illuminated by it and have a discussion, or they'll shut down, they'll be aggressive, they'll do these other things.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then based on their behavior, you now can make intelligent choices and say,
3
SPEAKER_02
 Is this a person I can progress with or is this a person I should step away from?
3
SPEAKER_02
Because everybody is flawed like I'm flawed.
3
SPEAKER_01
What would your husband say is your biggest flaw or the thing that you've needed feedback on the most or support in overcoming or improving on or whatever it might be?
3
SPEAKER_01
 To be truthful, I think being in- And when someone says to be truthful, does that mean they're about to lie?
3
SPEAKER_01
No, no, I'm being truthful.
3
SPEAKER_02
But you're right, it's a qualifier.
3
SPEAKER_02
Honestly- Honestly?
3
SPEAKER_00
I'm telling you the truth.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yes, so you could have been cued by that and just been like, let me see how she answers.
3
SPEAKER_02
And this is why you have to be careful when it comes to deception, right?
3
SPEAKER_02
But I will tell you, I think one of the things I've had to work on
3
SPEAKER_02
 is because I came from a law enforcement background, I started off NYPD and then US Secret Service, and you're around people, you're around people when they are at their worst, especially when you're dealing with criminal behavior.
3
SPEAKER_02
You are around some of the worst behaviors and the people when they're at their worst.
3
SPEAKER_02
No one's ever happy to see the police, by the way.
3
SPEAKER_02
Fire department, they love, oh, the firemen are here.
3
SPEAKER_02
Police department, ah.
3
SPEAKER_02
 Having said that, you're interacting with people who despise you, hate you, and who are consistently lying to you.
3
SPEAKER_02
So one of the traits that actually they see in law enforcement is cynicism.
3
SPEAKER_02
And they become quite cynical.
3
SPEAKER_01
Of everything, because you're seeing the worst.
3
SPEAKER_02
Right, but you're dealing with it on a daily basis, all day long.
3
SPEAKER_02
Now that is a trait that I had to be careful of and that I noticed.
3
SPEAKER_02
 where people in general, most people, the average population, the majority of the population, are more likely to be trusting and to believe in people.
3
SPEAKER_02
So I say this to people too, so when they feel bad, oh this person tricked me, what's wrong with me, I got duped, there's nothing you did wrong.
3
SPEAKER_02
People in general, in nature, naturally, want to believe and are more trusting.
3
SPEAKER_02
The exception is,
3
SPEAKER_02
 Law enforcement, because you are typically around people who are not honest, genuine, deceitful, hateful.
3
SPEAKER_02
You deal with that type of behavior.
3
SPEAKER_02
I don't want to say people behavior.
3
SPEAKER_02
You become more cynical.
3
SPEAKER_02
So I had to work on that where I am more inclined to see the flaw.
3
SPEAKER_02
 or to see the problem than to be as trusting.
3
SPEAKER_02
I'm the opposite.
3
SPEAKER_02
I'm very, you know, I'm doing the assessment.
3
SPEAKER_02
What does this person want?
3
SPEAKER_02
What's the problem?
3
SPEAKER_02
What do they want from me?
3
SPEAKER_02
Where's the deception?
3
SPEAKER_02
Everyone's got an, that's why I have to work on it.
3
SPEAKER_01
 I didn't even realize until you told me, but you're pregnant and you're due to have a baby.
3
SPEAKER_02
Did you see or did you think it was just a lot of donuts I had?
3
SPEAKER_01
I didn't even see.
3
SPEAKER_01
I wasn't even like, you know, maybe I should have been more aware and checked your whole body and assessed everything.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I was just looking, I look in the eyes usually when I'm connected with someone.
3
SPEAKER_02
You're being polite.
3
SPEAKER_02
 She could be pregnant, she could have had a baby.
3
SPEAKER_01
I didn't know until you pointed it out.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I'm curious, you're four or five months pregnant?
3
SPEAKER_02
I'm five.
3
SPEAKER_01
Has anything shifted in you in terms of your intuition or your ability to sense behaviors differently while being pregnant?
3
SPEAKER_01
Or do you feel like it's the same as before?
3
SPEAKER_02
 You know, I, and this is probably gonna come into your language, I feel people's energy more.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that was- Not their behaviors?
3
SPEAKER_02
 I still analyze behavior, I can't turn it off.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but you feel energy, like the energy.
3
SPEAKER_02
I just feel people more and I'm much more aware, so I don't know, and I don't know if this is, this is kind of going to different space, and I tried to think about it, I don't know if it's because there's another soul inside of me, if you think of it to some extent, and that makes you more sensitive, but I am more maybe sensitive, not in a negative way, towards what's around me.
3
SPEAKER_02
 And more, I feel a bit more.
3
SPEAKER_02
So I'm using energy a bit more.
3
SPEAKER_02
That I'm aware of.
3
SPEAKER_01
What do you feel more?
3
SPEAKER_02
I think, one I have noticed, and I'm curious to see what other pregnant women have noticed, but what I noticed is,
3
SPEAKER_02
 I guess, think of it like a radio frequency.
3
SPEAKER_02
If my frequency was good before, it's like really crystal clear now, as far as somebody's energy coming through.
3
SPEAKER_02
Maybe I just get their behavior a bit more.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I was always pretty on point, but I can really feel
3
SPEAKER_02
 people on a stronger level more acutely and more maybe intuitively.
3
SPEAKER_02
I don't know why.
3
SPEAKER_02
I have no knowledge in this space.
3
SPEAKER_02
This is more an internal thing that I've noticed.
3
SPEAKER_01
So the Secret Service should be hiring pregnant women more to have that like superpower, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Maybe.
3
SPEAKER_01
Wow, you should come back and consult for a couple months.
3
SPEAKER_02
 Maybe, maybe.
3
SPEAKER_02
So it brings that awareness.
3
SPEAKER_02
I also think you become, I don't know, I mean I work very much so even though I'm connected and in tune,
3
SPEAKER_02
 I've also not, it was very important for me for it not to shift everything else in my life.
3
SPEAKER_02
I've always been very task-oriented.
3
SPEAKER_02
I like the work I do.
3
SPEAKER_02
And this is just like a whole other journey.
3
SPEAKER_02
God help me, right?
3
SPEAKER_02
I don't know who's gonna.
3
SPEAKER_00
It's exciting.
3
SPEAKER_00
I'm very excited for you.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that kid's doing push-ups.
3
SPEAKER_02
People ground their kids, my kids, and be like, get down and give me 50.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, exactly.
3
SPEAKER_02
I told you not to eat that cookie.
3
SPEAKER_01
Right, get to work.
3
SPEAKER_02
Get to work.
3
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 What would you say were the three greatest lessons you learned from working with the Secret Service and these different presidents that you worked with that you have taken with you and you'll apply for the rest of your life?
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I've learned to, one thing is resilience.
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 when you're around people who are in such a world stage, and they receive such hate, such venom, and you can see them just persist, and get shredded, and then get up and give a press conference, when other people, you know, completely become obliterated, because somebody said something to them.
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That, that I learned.
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That, that, yes, part of it was training, because they teach you like, hey, I don't want to be like, toughen up, but toughen up, no one wants to hear you.
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 But it gives you that resiliency and that awareness.
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But then also seeing people, heads of state, like you can't fall apart, you're running a country.
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That's one thing.
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The second thing I was taught was to be of service to other people.
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And it seems to me that I don't see a lot of it out there.
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 Everyone, and I don't know if it's just here in the US, I could be wrong, but we're very, very me, me, me.
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What's in it for me?
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I want this.
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I, I, I. And it kind of brings me back to that train track scenario where we don't do for other people.
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We don't serve.
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And when I mean serve, just serve for the greater good.
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It was always interesting when people
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 would say to me, you would really take a bullet for that person?
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Because the idea is when you're a service agent, a president and whoever it was, and not just president, but anybody else you were tasked to protect.
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And they would think like there was something really wrong with that.
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And I would always feel like I can't think of a better way or better reason to give my life or to die than saving the life of another human being.
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 It taught me to serve and to give of myself.
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I think that's just powerful.
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And I think sometimes when we grow up, and especially when we're younger, we just think about ourselves.
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And when I say to give of ourselves, I don't mean to just give to our small inner circle, I mean to humanity.
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 That, I think, was the biggest thing.
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That's number two.
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That's number two.
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And the third one was shut up.
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I learned in training to shut up.
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Not everything's about you.
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Listen.
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Observe.
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You know, and just... You learn so much when you shut your mouth.
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I think one of my greatest insecurities became one of my greatest superpowers later in life because
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 I felt afraid to speak to my friends when I was in elementary school, middle school.
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Later in high school I'm more confident but I was unsure of how to communicate and how to tell stories and be interesting around people.
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I was more unsure of myself.
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I was more quiet because just speaking in school I wasn't able to read aloud, all these different things.
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 And what it did for me is I just started observing people.
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I started watching people at school, not as a weird, creepy way, but I would just be in the hallways and just watch how people interacted with each other and their whole energy or the behavior.
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I would watch everything.
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And when I got into early in my career, my, my mid to late twenties, I remember thinking, I have no clue about this business stuff.
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I'm just young guy.
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There's all these professionals that I'm meeting.
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 Me acting like I know something is gonna be really disingenuous, so let me just ask questions and shut up.
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And for a decade, I've been doing this show where I've just asked questions.
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I speak very little, maybe 10% of the time, 15% maybe, when I'm interviewing someone.
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And I gain so much wisdom by shutting up and by asking.
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So I think if people learn to not try to be impressive to other people all the time,
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 Of course, if they're being interviewed, it's different, but if you're always trying to be the center of attention and have everything to say, I think you become more interesting when you listen and allow others to communicate.
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You become the most interesting person in the room when you're not speaking.
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I think.
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 if you can ask the right questions and get people to share about themselves in certain ways, it's like, wow, no one's really been that thoughtful to ask, you know, so.
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You know, it's, I've learned this, this is a side thing.
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I've learned that heroism is quiet.
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Strength is quiet.
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 Confidence is quiet and that the most lethal person in the room is the person who says the least Yes Especially it's like allowing everyone else to speak first before you give your opinion or before you give an idea, right?
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You get to hear what everyone else is saying in the back.
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SPEAKER_01
Okay, I really like that Let me pull from that and this and this and now let me present my case.
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I
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 Can I ask you a question Lewis?
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I'm curious because you've been doing this for so long and people probably see you in such a way for inspiration and guidance.
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I would presume again, this is an assumption, correct me if I'm wrong, that people come to you a lot for advice.
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What do you do in those scenarios because I would think you get hit up
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 A lot.
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What do you do?
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How do you manage that?
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I try to say, like if someone's emailing or messaging on social media and they ask for advice, my whole thing is, listen, I share all my wisdom here on the podcast.
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And there's people much smarter than me, check out this episode.
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SPEAKER_01
 So I try to save my time and their time by saying if you listen to this show or watch it, it's over 1,200 episodes, I've said pretty much everything to your specific case.
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SPEAKER_01
So I might just send them a link to something and listen to this or just like you, you've got your book, you've probably given a lot of your strategies already in the book.
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SPEAKER_01
If someone says tell me this strategy.
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SPEAKER_01
 You're like just read the book and then ask me a question a follow-up question, right?
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SPEAKER_01
So it's like I've got the book I've got the podcast things like that people want to pay for it if they want to have it for free they have access So it's more of just directing people to the answers or to people who have the answers.
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That's what I try to do
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 How about though real people, like people that you interact with, or acquaintances, or friends of friends?
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I'm just curious to see how you manage all that.
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SPEAKER_01
My strategy has always been, my greatest coaches in sports never gave me the answer, right?
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They never gave me the advice.
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 They would give me drills, they would give me feedback, they would show me game film or videos to see what worked well, what didn't work well.
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SPEAKER_01
They would have me observe.
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They would have me watch other talented people playing basketball or football.
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I'd watch other people who were professionals and see how they did it.
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And then watch myself back and how am I doing it?
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Am I close to that or not?
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 And the greatest coaches would challenge me with questions.
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They would almost be like, well, if you were in this position and coaching someone else, what would you tell them?
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So I think I try to do that as much as possible without giving people the answer.
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Because if we're always giving people the answer to their problems, they're never going to be thinking about how they can overcome it on their own.
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SPEAKER_02
 Do you find that you have to kind of, because you've been doing this for so long and it's become so popular, from a protective mode for yourself, do you find yourself having to shield yourself or protect yourself from getting hit up so much?
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SPEAKER_02
I'm even thinking just on a personal note, like, hey Louis, hey Louis, hey Louis.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, just out in the world, yeah.
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 I try to just listen and give a quick solution or I say you know I've got a great episode for you, send me a DM and I'll send you the link.
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SPEAKER_01
To keep it shorter as opposed to let me coach you for an hour.
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But it all depends where I'm at in the situation.
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SPEAKER_01
 Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
Okay, I want to remind people about this book.
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SPEAKER_01
The last time we had you on, people loved this, and they've been getting the book.
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SPEAKER_01
But if you haven't got this book yet, Becoming Bulletproof, Protect Yourself, Read People, Influence Situations, and Live Fearlessly by Evi Pomporis.
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SPEAKER_01
Make sure you guys get a few copies of this.
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SPEAKER_01
This will be a powerful tool in your toolkit to just improve the quality of your life, your confidence, and your skills with people.
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SPEAKER_01
 You said in the beginning, I believe the same thing, the quality of our life is directly related to the relationships we have, right?
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SPEAKER_01
Our success, our joy, our love is in how we interact with people in our life.
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SPEAKER_01
And so if you want to protect yourself and also create more abundance in these relationships, this is the way to do it.
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SPEAKER_01
Business, life, career, all these different things.
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SPEAKER_01
So make sure you guys get a couple copies of this book.
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SPEAKER_01
 Follow you.
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Where are you at?
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Most right now?
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SPEAKER_01
Is it Instagram?
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Is it Twitter?
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Where are you at?
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SPEAKER_02
The most probably Instagram Instagram Facebook?
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SPEAKER_02
Yes Twitter.
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SPEAKER_01
Okay.
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Do you spend the most time on Instagram yourself?
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SPEAKER_02
I try to check all of them.
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SPEAKER_02
Okay, actually I do try to connect with people.
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SPEAKER_02
Absolutely I feel like if somebody's going through their the process of reaching out or at least I read everything I do my best
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SPEAKER_01
 Yes, of course, that's good.
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SPEAKER_01
So check you out on Instagram every pom porous and every pom porous comms got all your information You do a lot of speaking Consulting you've got this book.
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SPEAKER_01
I think you said you're working on another book as well, right?
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SPEAKER_01
Maybe not yet, but in the future, I'm sure you'll have many more you're working on another Yes, yes How else can we be of service to you today?
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SPEAKER_02
I think I
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 I think you were great.
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I appreciate you, Louis.
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It was just a pleasure coming back, and no, you've been solid.
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SPEAKER_01
Okay, awesome.
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SPEAKER_01
One final question for you before I ask.
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I want to acknowledge you, Evie, for the consistency you have in your life.
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You consistently show up to serve, and I think coming from that service mindset of working for 12 plus years in Secret Service and with government,
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 And then transitioning and saying, how can I take this to more people in the world is really inspiring.
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SPEAKER_01
So I acknowledge you for constantly being of service and teaching people powerful strategies to help them improve their life.
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It's really meaningful work.
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And so I really acknowledge you for that.
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And I'm glad you're doing it while you're pregnant.
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I know you're gonna be a great mother.
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You got a great kid on your hands coming up now.
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SPEAKER_01
He's gonna be a lot of pressure though with both of you in the seat.
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 This kid's gonna be terrified.
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SPEAKER_01
Terrified, or the most powerful human being ever.
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SPEAKER_01
My final question for you, Evie, what's your definition of greatness?
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Man, Lewis, why do you ask these questions?
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I always pause, because I don't wanna just say whatever.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it's good, think about it.
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 If tomorrow were to be my last day and I'm okay to go, then I've lived a great life.
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If tomorrow were to be my last day and I'm not okay to go, then that means I've not lived a great life and I need to lock it up and change something.
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That's what I think of greatness.
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Did I live a great life?
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 And it's not, will I live it later on?
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I'll do it later.
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It's right now.
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Tomorrow's your last day.
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Am I okay to go?
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I'm okay to go.
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That means I've lived the best life I can live, a great life that I can live.
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How about you, before you high five me?
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Greatness is discovering and developing your unique skills and talents.
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 using them to pursue your dreams and in that pursuit making the maximum impact on the people around you.
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I feel like we all have a uniqueness and we've got to develop those skills and figure out what those are and sharpen them and based on life experiences I feel like
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SPEAKER_01
 We have to listen to the dreams inside of us and pursue those dreams and be on the journey.
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SPEAKER_01
Whether we accomplish them or not is irrelevant, but are we on the journey of the thing that we feel like we're chosen to do for that scene of life?
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SPEAKER_01
Are we listening to the inner voice or whatever conversation inside of us or feeling that's saying, go do this, go try this thing?
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And in that pursuit, like you said, are we making it all about me and look at me or are we using that tool
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 and pursuing that dream to inspire, impact, influence in a positive way.
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That's what I think greatness is for me.
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Yeah.
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Well, I thank you because you're also on the surface of everybody.
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Everything you do and everything you film and everyone you talk to, it's how can I help people?
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That's the mission.
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It's to serve 100 million lives weekly, to help them improve the quality of their life.
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That's what we're about.
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SPEAKER_02
 Solid mission.
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SPEAKER_01
Yes.
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SPEAKER_01
I appreciate it.
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SPEAKER_01
Thanks, Emi.
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SPEAKER_01
 I really love hearing feedback from you guys, so share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most.
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SPEAKER_01
And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.
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And now it's time to go out there and do something great.