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Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Anonymous.
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Boy, I know people are impatiently awaiting this.
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Part one of stalking was like we put out Dr. Death or something.
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The comments were like, people screamed, they pulled their car over to breathe for a while.
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That was such a pop out.
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Oh my Lord.
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Yeah.
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Part two delivers too.
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It almost made me think that we could have a whole show about stalking.
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Probably, which is such a bummer.
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It is a bummer.
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I think I was nervous putting out the first one because I m like, it s such a rough topic.
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Implicit in it is someone getting scared out of their mind because of somebody.
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Yeah.
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But then when I realized like, no, we love, it s like murder shows.
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It is.
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It s true crime.
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It s true crime.
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We love true crime.
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We love true crime.
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And I hate this crime because it s almost impossible to convict anyone of anything.
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That is the through line for sure.
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It s like true crime, but maddening true crime.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Okay.
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So this is stalking part two.
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Please enjoy.
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Hi!
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How are you?
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I m well, how are you?
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Good, where are you?
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Austin, Texas.
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Oh, baby!
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We love that.
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My home away from home.
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Oh, so you re in a beautiful fort.
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A homemade teepee, kind of.
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Thank you.
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Lovely.
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How long have you been in Austin?
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20 years, almost.
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Oh, wow.
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Okay, you have a stalking story?
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Yeah.
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Oh, we don t know what to expect now.
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Yeah, we re halfway through.
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We won t make any assumptions.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I wanted to preface with, I will end on an upswing.
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Okay, thank you.
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Good to know.
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It s gonna get a little low for a bit.
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Sure.
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I am gonna go by Skyler, if that s okay.
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Great, Skyler, love it.
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Connected to Good Will Hunting, because that s also my favorite movie.
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Oh, fuck yes!
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Hunting Sisters.
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Hunting Sisters, Ben and Matt.
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Huge, great memories of childhood.
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I will say that.
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And I m very loved.
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However, there was a bit of a turn starting from pretty much the beginning of me being able to form a memory.
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We had someone who would stock our entire family, including our immediate family.
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So myself, my parents, as well as people in our extended family.
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So she had a job that had access to this was late eighties, nineties.
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And was it in Texas?
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Yes.
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Her job gave her access to people s addresses and phone numbers at the time.
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So she was able to track down our family members and would call obsessively.
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This was pre caller ID, pre cell phones.
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So this is your home line being obsessively called all hours of the day.
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And this is like our whole family.
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So it escalated to, she would come to our homes.
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We would come out to go to preschool and work and all of the windows in our cars would be smashed.
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Oh God.
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Did she have a connection to you guys?
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That will come in.
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Okay, great, great, great, great.
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Okay.
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It s one of those many stories.
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Are you Latina?
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Yes.
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Okay.
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Were you thinking this was like racially motivated at all or what was the explanation for why someone would be vandalizing?
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I really don t know, like in my child brain, what I consider the motivation or how I explained it to myself.
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And my parents never really full out explained it at this point.
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It was just, there s a crazy person, quote unquote.
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And so I had no idea.
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So this continues.
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There s more incidents where she would show up.
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I was at my grandparents  house one day with my little cousin.
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She showed up with a gun.
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Oh my God.
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This is so traumatic.
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Yeah.
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When you guys would go to the police, what would the police say?
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So the explanation from police is that something physical has to happen.
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The vandalization, stuff like that.
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You couldn t prove it.
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And so she was always gone by the time police would come.
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Yeah, in the 80s and 90s, the cops are like, well, we got to catch her murdering you.
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And then we ll know.
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That s now too.
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Yes.
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Well, that s one of the things with stalking.
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It s a rough one.
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So we moved, we got a nice new house.
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It s two story.
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My bedroom s in the front on the second floor.
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And she would come just to kind of torment us.
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And especially me, she would come and park in the
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driveway and shine her lights into my bedroom window.
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So like I would know she was there, just an intimidation.
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It was all just intimidation with like slight violence.
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It got to the point where I was in such an anxious state that I would army crawl along my floor to avoid the windows.
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And nobody knows going through this stuff.
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It was just what I did as a child to like cope.
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Nobody really understood anxiety at that time.
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Yeah.
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Or the long-term effects of this on your brain.
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Yes, we ll also get to that.
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So there were more incidents that happened.
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She tried to run my mom and I off the road at one point, and that s actually what got the restraining order.
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And so we would take her picture to my school, show them, let them know she s never allowed.
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I wasn t allowed to play outside alone.
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I would always have to have an adult around.
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We had a cul-de-sac.
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She would come and park in the cul-de-sac and just stare while I was outside until I just like ran inside.
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I have a terrible guess of why this is happening, but I ll patiently wait.
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Yeah, I do too, but let s see.
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Relatively accurate.
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So, eventually I start figuring out that Dad is a little bit of a womanizer.
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There we go, yeah.
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He is...
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An addict, which I already knew.
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Does he live with you guys though?
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Up until I was about eight, but then things continued.
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So on my 11th birthday, which Capricorn.
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Boom.
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Yeah.
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And also day after Christmas.
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I know you guys mentioned that as like the worst birthday.
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Oh wow.
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Yeah.
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Feds are real.
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Fuck you.
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But I actually really like it.
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I don t know.
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I love the fanfare around the time.
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So yes, we would do this thing every morning of my birthday after my parents divorced, my dad would come over.
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We d watch the news they would send in my picture and the news would like show your picture That s a pretty good clue of how small of an area you lived in by the way So he would come over we would watch the news and see my picture and celebrate and so he comes over we get a phone call and
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My mom answers it and she says it s, and it says a name.
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And I m like, oh, it s my cousin calling to wish me happy birthday.
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So I go to the phone, answer it.
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She is on the other line.
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She starts yelling all kinds of crazy things.
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And it s just like one giant rant of basically me and your daddy had sex and you have a brother.
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And so.
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She just starts yelling this at me.
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I scream.
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11th birthday.
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Wait, why did your mom give you the phone when she knew?
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She gave a fake name.
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Oh, she gave the name of my cousin.
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So at this time there was caller ID, but she would do it to where it came up as out of area.
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Right.
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Or it would come up as a block number, like a number that wasn t public.
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Our whole family ended up making our numbers private, you know?
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And so she lied to get to me, said that.
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I scream.
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Dad comes running in.
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yells at her, cusses her out, you know, they convinced me, they sit me down and they say, she s just trying to hurt you.
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Oh, it s not true.
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This is their big opportunity to come clean.
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They blow this one.
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You re 11.
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It s like they, Oh God.
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Yeah.
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So I am convinced this is nothing.
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It s her trying to hurt me.
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And I m like, okay, great.
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Carry on in life.
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A few months later, sit me down again.
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CPS had been called on her for my brother.
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He was found not in great shape.
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And so they removed him from the home, and my dad was going to attempt to have custody.
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And so at that point, they did have to let me know, obviously, that I have a three-year-old brother, not just a new brother, a three-year-old brother.
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Yeah, you ve had one for three years.
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So fast forward, I guess, a little bit.
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This carried on a little bit more.
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She was a lot more careful about it.
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especially with everything with my brother in custody.
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And it was rough because I was almost forced to be around her at times because she would have to come pick up my brother or they had like supervised visitation.
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I would have to tag along in the cars while my dad went and did all this.
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So it was a lot of just situations that I did not know how to get out of and I couldn t really comprehend at that time.
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And just like my little childhood brain was not
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putting it all together.
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No, I don t think the adults in the situation can even manage this level of craziness and stress.
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Yeah.
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And so eventually things tapered off.
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I moved to Austin and was, you know, kind of freed in a way.
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At what age?
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Did you go early?
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20.
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20.
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Okay.
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And so moving here really gave me kind of like a second lot on things and a freedom to like not be afraid of who s around me.
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Yeah.
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I m a hypervigilant person.
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How could you not be?
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Yeah, exactly.
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And so, you know, I moved here as I was getting older, I started piecing together more and more things from my childhood and
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In my 20s and early 30s, it really drove me into like a deep kind of depression and anxiety of trying to figure out like, who do you trust if you couldn t even trust your family growing up?
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Who do you trust if you re like your parents lied to you for so much, which I know it happens, but also that was my narrative is like, everybody goes through shit.
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And so I just kept saying like, well, everybody goes through shit.
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Everybody goes through shit.
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And then a couple of times in my 20s and like early 30s.
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I talked about what I had gone through and they re like, not everybody goes through that shit.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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I know exactly what you re saying.
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Or you have like a boyfriend or a girlfriend and you re kind of hearing about their childhood and you re like, oh, okay, well, boy, they got lucky.
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Yeah.
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Oh, that s nice.
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Yeah.
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That sounds really nice.
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It s weird.
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Cause it s such a juxtaposition where I had these beautiful experiences in childhood, especially my parents from the outside, everything was great.
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And then even talking to some of my family members, I ll tell them what happened.
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growing up.
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And even they re kind of unaware of like the depth of everything.
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Yeah.
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And so I went through a real ditch for a bit.
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So I ve been a private chef for a while.
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And I always jam out while I m cooking because it takes away my anxieties also.
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And I hadn t listened to the podcast yet.
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Your podcast came out.
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Back to boys in a can.
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And so that was the first podcast I ever listened to is when you guys came out, fell in love with you, Monica.
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And we have like a lot of dingles along the way.
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I have literally listened to you guys almost every day for since you ve been on.
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And so I started doing the work and one day I was sitting on a beach somewhere that I was private shopping and a friend had joined me and we re talking and
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I was like, I think I m ready to start dating again.
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She was like, are you?
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And I m like, yeah, I think so.
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And so she s like, list out all of your crazy things, like what your dream person is.
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I listed out a few minutes later, I get a message on Instagram from a person who was from my past.
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And on my list was someone from my past that could come back in and knew me before I was like, really, really down.
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And I was like, I think I ve done the work between stalking and lying and all this stuff that really created this anxiety and like bubble of
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unknown for me.
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Like, I didn t know how to get out.
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I was like, actually, I ve always really liked this person.
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This is the person that, like, really outlined everything that I would want.
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And so fast forward to a couple weeks later, he ended up asking me out on a date.
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We go on our first date and we reconvened and now we ve been together for almost three years.
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Yay!
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I love it.
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This is such a happy ending.
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And he s a vulnerable boy.
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Oh no!
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I love vulnerable boys!
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Yay!
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Yeah.
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And it s just been a real full circle to be here.
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I have to say, I had to include that part because really it s helped me.
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I ve been in therapy for over two years now.
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Our relationship really brought out a lot of the things that like I had pushed down and needed to really work out and the next level of stuff that I needed to work out.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I feel like I would have gotten there eventually, but truly like listening to you guys talk and be so open with everything really gave me the confidence and just the support within myself to be able to redefine what I want in life and go for it.
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That s really very cool.
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I have a really big dream life going on.
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I m private chefing all over.
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I private chef for a lot of your guests and friends.
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Oh, my God.
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Amazing.
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I m like heavily NDA bound.
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It s a dream.
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Next time we re in Austin, we have to do a chef thing.
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We need you to come cook for us.
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I didn t know how to say it.
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It sounded bad, but I want to eat your food.
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Yes, I would love you to eat.
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And also, so my boyfriend, he is also a chef at one of the top restaurants.
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I think chefs over-index in vulnerable boy status and vulnerable girl status.
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I agree.
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Yeah, yeah, I really do.
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All the chefs I ve met, I can see in them pretty quickly.
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There s anxiety healing happening within cooking, I think.
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Yeah.
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I just had to add, this is so superficial, you look 19.
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Like when you were saying you ve been in Austin for 20 years, I m like, okay, so you came when you were a baby.
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Yeah, it s impossible.
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I mean, you really look like you re in your early 20s at the most.
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Do you wear sunscreen?
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SPEAKER_00
No way.
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SPEAKER_00
Yes, she does.
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SPEAKER_03
She does.
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She wears it.
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Also, I have the filter on here and I put makeup on.
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Like, let s be real.
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I wish we could hug each other right now.
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SPEAKER_04
All right.
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Well, we ll have your email from Emma and for real, if Monica and I are in Austin, we must.
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Yes.
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You must cook for Monica.
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I ll cook you something.
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You cook Monica something.
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You ll do a cooking roulette.
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Thank you for chatting with us.
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Great meeting you.
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Thank you so much for everything that you do.
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It s bigger than big.
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SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
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Bye.
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SPEAKER_00
All right.
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Take care.
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SPEAKER_03
Okay, I this reminds me that one time when I was working at UCB this woman came in and Her stalker was she had a restraining order against him.
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Uh-huh.
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He was outside a performer No, he was just standing outside.
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She was stuck.
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She like came in She was like, I don t know where to go and I was like stuck 25 deal with that.
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Yeah deal with that.
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SPEAKER_00
Holy smokes.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh
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Hi.
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SPEAKER_03
Hi.
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SPEAKER_00
Hello there.
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SPEAKER_03
What would you like to go by?
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SPEAKER_00
You are a woodland nymph.
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SPEAKER_00
That s immediately obvious.
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SPEAKER_01
I feel like that under my desk.
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SPEAKER_01
Could you pick a name for me?
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SPEAKER_00
Okay.
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I m going to go with Ariel.
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SPEAKER_01
Oh, I like that.
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SPEAKER_01
Let s go with Ariel.
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Okay, great.
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Are you allowed to tell us where you re at or is that not a great idea?
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I think it s important to the story.
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So I live in New York city.
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I live in Brooklyn.
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The big city.
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SPEAKER_00
You look like a Brooklynite.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I love it.
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SPEAKER_00
Slash, did Peter Pan have a sidekick?
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SPEAKER_01
Oh, Wendy.
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SPEAKER_01
Tinkerbell!
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SPEAKER_01
Oh, Tinkerbell.
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SPEAKER_01
Yes, there it is.
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SPEAKER_01
I m wearing green.
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SPEAKER_01
Is it because I m wearing green?
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SPEAKER_00
No, it s you have a very sweet, magical looking face.
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SPEAKER_01
Thank you.
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SPEAKER_01
That s the best compliment ever.
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SPEAKER_00
I m sincere about this.
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SPEAKER_00
Okay.
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So you re in Brooklyn and it is relevant to the story.
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SPEAKER_01
Should I just jump into it?
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SPEAKER_01
First of all, after submitting my story to the show, I went back and fact checked a few things and I ve updated a few details.
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My memory of this time period.
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feels hazy.
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And I think maybe that s a way that my brain is coping, but I m fine now.
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SPEAKER_01
Okay.
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SPEAKER_01
Well, it s good to know that, but I have some notes here for that reason, like to just keep me on track in case I get lost.
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SPEAKER_01
So this takes place in 2019.
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I was 21 years old and I was living in New York city.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was on Tinder when I met a guy and
1
SPEAKER_01
I guess we need a fake name for him too.
1
SPEAKER_00
Peter.
1
SPEAKER_00
Peter.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s so weird.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was about to say Peter Pan.
1
SPEAKER_00
Peter Pan.
1
SPEAKER_00
Peter Pan.
1
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I meet Peter on Tinder and he s very handsome.
1
SPEAKER_00
Will you quickly tell me, I ve never been on those, but Tinder s what vibe?
1
SPEAKER_00
Is that one like let s get together and make out or that s go on a date or somewhere in between?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it was definitely more let s make out.
1
SPEAKER_01
So we are both out of long-term relationships.
1
SPEAKER_01
So we were looking for something more casual, but also fun.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like we would definitely hang out a lot during the day and go on day trips to different parts of the city.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it was just really fun to be around.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so we were doing that for a few months.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then one day I received a DM on Instagram from a girl that I didn t know.
1
SPEAKER_03
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_01
And she was asking me if I could meet her that day at a coffee shop in our neighborhood.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so, of course, I had to go find out what this was all about.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now, you acknowledge some people won t know, and you would have.
1
SPEAKER_00
I would have.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I want to know the tea, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
What would you have done, Monica?
1
SPEAKER_03
God.
1
SPEAKER_00
Probably not, right?
1
SPEAKER_03
Probably not.
1
SPEAKER_03
But I probably would have been like, I don t want to meet you, but what is this regarding?
1
SPEAKER_01
I had a feeling.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_03
OK.
1
SPEAKER_01
My gut was like, I know what this is about.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I went and met her and a third girl and a fourth girl who was joining us on FaceTime because she couldn t make it there in person.
1
SPEAKER_03
OK.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_03
Mm hmm.
1
SPEAKER_03
He s got a real scandal going.
1
SPEAKER_03
It s impressive actually.
1
SPEAKER_03
It s a class action lawsuit.
1
SPEAKER_03
It is impressive.
1
SPEAKER_03
It s like, how are you juggling all of this?
1
SPEAKER_01
For real though.
1
SPEAKER_01
And they basically lay out for me what had been going on, which was that he was seeing all of us simultaneously and for other girls who couldn t be there in person either.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you were kind of the most recent acquisition.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t know, to this day, I don t know how many more people there were.
1
SPEAKER_01
The gist that I got was like, he was waking up in one girl s bed, going to hang out with another for the day, and going to a third s to sleep at her place.
1
SPEAKER_01
He was just like a drifter and just always good.
1
SPEAKER_01
How long were you guys together?
1
SPEAKER_03
Three months.
1
SPEAKER_01
You were together three months.
1
SPEAKER_01
And were you exclusive-ish?
1
SPEAKER_01
So it was a little more than three months.
1
SPEAKER_01
It must ve been like four or five, I want to say.
1
SPEAKER_01
And we hadn t said that we were exclusive.
1
SPEAKER_01
But we were spending, like, it felt like we were getting there, eventually.
1
SPEAKER_01
For some of these girls, they actually had decided to be exclusive.
1
SPEAKER_01
So he was definitely in the wrong.
1
SPEAKER_01
Lines were crossed.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
We also found out that he d been lying about being a student and going to a school.
2
SPEAKER_01
That seemed really kind of dark to me, but I guess how would you have time to go to school if you re doing all this?
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, it sounds like school is just an excuse to buy himself time to be away from the other eight girls.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, oh, I have class on this day.
2
SPEAKER_00
What was the age gap?
2
SPEAKER_00
Was there an age gap?
2
SPEAKER_01
He was about four years older than me.
2
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, very good excuse.
2
SPEAKER_01
Perfect excuse.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I called him and I confronted him and I was like,
2
SPEAKER_01
Please never contact me again.
2
SPEAKER_01
That was weird behavior.
2
SPEAKER_01
Then later that day, when I got back to my apartment, he was sitting on the stoop.
2
SPEAKER_01
He really wanted to talk about it because he insisted it was all a big misunderstanding.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I gave him like five, 10 minutes, nodding my head, not believing anything he s saying.
2
SPEAKER_01
I go back up into my apartment and I think I m never going to see him again.
2
SPEAKER_01
But that was not the case.
2
SPEAKER_01
For the next few days, he would be on my stoop, walking by my building or hanging around on the street that I lived on.
2
SPEAKER_00
Had you ever been to his house?
2
SPEAKER_01
I had, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
He has a place to live.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
Technically.
2
SPEAKER_01
He was also blowing up my phone, like just constantly calling me to the point where I couldn t use my phone because it was getting hot.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then I blocked him and he would just continue to do that through no caller ID.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then one night I watched him sit on the sidewalk across the street in the pouring rain and just cry.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s very dramatic.
2
SPEAKER_00
At any point, did he say, yes, there s all these people, but I actually am in love with you.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so I m willing to get rid of all this.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you are the one of these 12.
2
SPEAKER_01
That was exactly the story he was trying to tell me.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Hard to know.
2
SPEAKER_00
Also possible.
2
SPEAKER_00
It doesn t matter.
2
SPEAKER_00
It doesn t matter.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
She doesn t matter.
2
SPEAKER_00
Not interested in being with someone who would ever do that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Of course, doesn t even matter, but is also interesting and relevant.
2
SPEAKER_01
It is interesting, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, because there s two versions of this.
2
SPEAKER_00
He s going to all eight of them and saying they re the ones and crying.
2
SPEAKER_00
Or Ariel is the one that he s like, oh fuck, my behavior is caught up with me and I m about to lose a girl that I actually am in love with.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m a sex addict, but I m in love with, I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_00
It doesn t matter.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re not going to be with them, but it s also interesting.
2
SPEAKER_01
My theory now is that he saw me as like an easy target because I had a lot of empathy.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m naive.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was younger than the other girls.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so him crying on the sidewalk, definitely looking back now, I m like, that was a great way to manipulate me pulling at my heartstrings.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think I made the mistake in the beginning of trying to talk to him and reason with him.
2
SPEAKER_01
I begged him to just cut it out and go home.
2
SPEAKER_01
I tried asking kindly.
2
SPEAKER_01
I tried asking angrily.
2
SPEAKER_01
I tried reaching out to his mom, his dad, just asking them if they could talk to him and his friends and nothing seemed to be working.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I tried a new tactic, which was I m going to ignore him.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Which they say, and we probably should have said this much earlier in this episode, but they say the number one technique for a stalker is to absolutely cut off all communication.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because right, they can use anything as confirming that you are still interested.
2
SPEAKER_00
Even if you re like, fuck off, I hope you die.
2
SPEAKER_00
They ll go like, they still care.
2
SPEAKER_00
Look how passionate they are.
2
SPEAKER_01
Definitely a mistake I made at the beginning and I would never do again.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I stopped even asking him to leave me alone.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like I just pretended he didn t exist.
2
SPEAKER_01
that maybe if I gave him zero attention he d have nothing to feed off of and maybe he d get bored and just give up and go home.
2
SPEAKER_01
But things just got worse.
2
SPEAKER_01
He started showing up at the subway station near my job.
2
SPEAKER_01
I used to work in retail and then near the subway station near my apartment I would be in like a train car.
2
SPEAKER_01
I could feel him staring at me from the other train car and I would just pretend like he wasn t there.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like I would pretend like I didn t know he was following me.
2
SPEAKER_01
God.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then he d pull the whole like calling my job and just breathing into the phone multiple times a day, which I m assuming was him because I don t know anyone else.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it was definitely him.
2
SPEAKER_01
Safe to say that ignoring him was not going well.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then one night I got off the train after getting off of work and I was walking home in the dark and he just sort of appeared, kept my head down and I was just trying to like walk faster, just get home as fast as I can.
2
SPEAKER_01
And like I said, ignoring him was not working him.
2
SPEAKER_01
It turns out it just made him mad.
2
SPEAKER_01
And eventually I was just full on sprinting and he was chasing me.
2
SPEAKER_01
No!
2
SPEAKER_00
What was the duration from the breakup till the chasing at night?
2
SPEAKER_01
Probably three weeks.
2
SPEAKER_01
That was the night I actually decided to file a police report and get a temporary order of protection.
2
SPEAKER_01
I thought that it would be enough to make him stop, but it seemed like there was no impact on his behavior whatsoever.
2
SPEAKER_01
Even the temporary restraining order?
2
SPEAKER_01
He threw rocks at my window at night and he started to message and harass my family and friends, which is where I was like drawing the line.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, you shouldn t message my younger sister.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s crazy.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I lost track of how many times he was arrested for breaking the order of protection, just because I would call them whenever something like this would happen.
2
SPEAKER_01
especially when I saw him outside on my stoop and I needed to go to work or go somewhere.
2
SPEAKER_01
But whenever they d get there, usually he d already be gone and there was nothing they could do.
2
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes they would catch him around the corner trying to get away or whatever, but he was arrested so many times.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I m sure I racked up, I don t know how many felonies at that point, because it had turned from temporary order protection to a more serious one.
2
SPEAKER_01
Every time he was arrested, he would just be released and be back doing the same thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
after 24 hours, like four days max.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I d know when he was out because my phone would just start blowing up again.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think maybe he was able to do this because his family is pretty wealthy and they had political connections.
2
SPEAKER_01
I d like to have more faith in our system, but I think that definitely played a large part in it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, that certainly answers a question I had about how is he supporting himself?
2
SPEAKER_00
He clearly can t have a job and have this sex addiction and the stalking.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Mommy and daddy.
2
SPEAKER_01
And you told the parents, so they re in the know about this.
2
SPEAKER_01
They knew exactly what was going on.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I had tried to reason with them.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, I think at one point I was like, I ll do anything.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ll drop the charges.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you can just make him stop.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s ruining my life right now.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I just need to like, get up and go to my job and go to classes.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like I have a life that I need to be living.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I was trying to do that as normally as I could, but it was so disruptive and time consuming.
2
SPEAKER_00
Did you stay in touch with any of the gals you had had this coffee with to find out if they too were being stalked by him?
2
SPEAKER_01
I was.
2
SPEAKER_01
They were not experiencing any of this.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t think he would have had time for two, but he s surprised me before.
2
SPEAKER_01
The detective assigned to my case would give me rides to work some mornings and then there would be like a patrol car parked outside my apartment for hours.
2
SPEAKER_01
It seems like they were like working in shifts, but it didn t stop.
2
SPEAKER_01
After another one of those incidents, I was in my kitchen with a police officer and he was like, I m not supposed to tell you this, but like this isn t the first time that he s done this.
2
SPEAKER_01
He has a history of this sort of behavior.
2
SPEAKER_01
So that was also really
2
SPEAKER_01
scary.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m like, okay, not only does he not care about it now, he s never cared about it.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then around this point is when he started to post these concerning social media posts, like photos on his story where he s definitely on top of like the Williamsburg Bridge and looking down on the water.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then he posted a photo from the roof of a building, like looking down at the sidewalk.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it took me a second to realize that was my building.
2
SPEAKER_01
It was on top of my roof.
2
SPEAKER_01
I called the police.
2
SPEAKER_01
I explained to them, he s on my roof, can you please help me?
2
SPEAKER_01
And when they arrived, they couldn t find him on top of the roof and they got annoyed with me.
2
SPEAKER_01
They were like, you re taking time away from other things that are happening.
2
SPEAKER_01
Kind of made it seem like I was being dramatic and looking for attention.
2
SPEAKER_01
But then that same night, he was arrested for breaking and entering into a building two buildings down from mine.
2
SPEAKER_01
I didn t know about until like a few days later.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then one night I was home alone because it was winter break and both of my roommates were back with their families and I was in bed.
2
SPEAKER_01
The lights were off.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was trying to go to sleep and I start hearing tapping at my window.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I had a fire escape right outside my window.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I knew probably what was happening.
2
SPEAKER_01
And my plan was like, I m going to lay here and ignore it and lay dead.
2
SPEAKER_01
The lights are not being turned on.
2
SPEAKER_01
He needs to think that I m not here.
2
SPEAKER_01
But then I could hear him getting into the window somehow.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, I don t know how he managed to open it.
2
SPEAKER_01
It seemed like it was like a knife or something, but it was an old building.
2
SPEAKER_01
So it probably wasn t that hard.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then I ran to the kitchen to get a knife with no intention to actually use it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was just like, I m going to have this in
2
SPEAKER_01
my hand so that he knows I m serious.
2
SPEAKER_01
As he comes through the window, I m like, I ve called 911.
2
SPEAKER_01
They re on their way.
2
SPEAKER_01
You need to exit through the front door of my apartment.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I m escorting him out with the knife in my hand, which I was surprised by how easy it was to do that when you had a knife in your hand.
2
SPEAKER_01
He complied.
2
SPEAKER_01
How bold you could be.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
And very creepy, still trying to talk to me, telling me that he loved me and all this weird stuff.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then when he left, I think I was so tired at that point.
2
SPEAKER_01
I didn t even call the police because what are they going to do when they get here?
2
SPEAKER_01
He s not here.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like they re going to make it seem like I was looking for attention.
3
SPEAKER_00
again.
3
SPEAKER_00
Around mid-December now, so all this had been going on for quite some time.
3
SPEAKER_03
Mid-December of what year?
3
2019.
3
SPEAKER_03
2019, okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
I woke up one morning and I saw that I had no Miss Caller ID calls and I was like, whoa, what s happening?
3
SPEAKER_00
I opened my Instagram to find a post from one of his best friends and it was like a tribute post.
3
SPEAKER_00
It was like, rest in peace, Peter.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh my god, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
I had a feeling that s how this was going to end.
3
SPEAKER_00
My stomach dropped.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I went and I looked at his most recent Instagram posts and it had 30 plus comments from friends and even his younger brother.
3
SPEAKER_00
And they re writing things like, you will be missed.
3
SPEAKER_00
And his younger brother had commented, rest in heaven, big bro.
3
SPEAKER_00
Crying emoji.
3
SPEAKER_00
I love you.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I m completely distraught.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like I have never lost someone similar in age and that I knew.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I had to go stay with my parents for a week and just try to process everything.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I didn t leave my bed.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I was at the same time feeling a lot of denial, like this can t be real.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I know that s also part of grieving.
3
SPEAKER_00
So.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was refreshing my Google search for like obituaries for Peter and eventually actually reached out to his mom and I offered my sincere condolences and she thanked me.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then I called his dad, who s divorced from his mom, and expressed my condolences.
3
SPEAKER_00
And he had no idea what I was talking about.
3
SPEAKER_00
What?
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, my God.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I start to realize, like, oh, this is fucked up.
3
SPEAKER_00
I text his mom and all I say is that I spoke with Peter s dad, period.
3
SPEAKER_00
And she sends me a text, which is definitely not intended for me.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s intended for Peter.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I have a screenshot of it.
3
SPEAKER_00
It says, obviously, he must have said that he is unaware something happened to you.
3
SPEAKER_00
She just trumped us, which was pretty sneaky.
3
SPEAKER_00
If your father doesn t know, it means it s not true.
3
SPEAKER_00
You see, it s backfiring, as I told you.
3
SPEAKER_03
What in the flying fuck?
3
SPEAKER_00
He faked his death.
3
SPEAKER_03
Well, and the brother s in on it and the mom s in it.
3
SPEAKER_00
What kind of fucking twisted family is this?
3
SPEAKER_00
I never texted Baxter or anything.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like I just left it at that.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was like, wow.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s a whole new level of crazy.
3
SPEAKER_00
And after like a week and a half of me bawling my eyes out.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_02
And probably feeling weird guilt, even though you should never.
3
SPEAKER_00
But oh, blaming myself, being like, oh, my God, if not for me, this person would probably still be alive for a week and a half.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s a long time.
3
SPEAKER_03
You re a better person than me.
3
SPEAKER_03
If I would have woke up to no thing and I saw he killed himself, I d be like, thank fucking God.
3
SPEAKER_02
I would feel relieved.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then I would feel a lot of guilt about feeling relieved.
3
SPEAKER_03
I would have felt happy and I would have strutted on the street and whistled.
3
SPEAKER_03
And I m like, yeah, it was him or me.
3
SPEAKER_03
And it was him with victory.
3
SPEAKER_00
This is insane.
3
SPEAKER_00
Me now would do that.
3
SPEAKER_00
I trusted people.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think that s what feels so weird about that.
3
SPEAKER_00
So as soon as that happens, the no caller ID starts right back up.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I have to go back to Brooklyn.
3
SPEAKER_00
I need to go to work because I need to pay my rent.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I m so tired that when the detective is like, there s not much else we can do for you.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like we know how this plays out.
3
SPEAKER_00
We ve seen it before.
3
SPEAKER_00
It doesn t go well for you.
3
SPEAKER_03
Do they advise you to get a gun at any point?
3
SPEAKER_00
No, they didn t.
3
SPEAKER_02
Why don t they arrest him permanently?
3
SPEAKER_02
I can t with the justice system.
3
SPEAKER_02
And even if they did, what would that do for him?
3
SPEAKER_02
He needs help.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, but he can t be out on the street doing this to people, harming people.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
And their recommendation was you need to relocate.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I m like, great.
3
SPEAKER_00
So how do I pay for that?
3
SPEAKER_00
Because I need to break a lease.
3
SPEAKER_00
I need to move things.
3
SPEAKER_00
Are you going to pay for that?
3
SPEAKER_00
And they re like, no, but you can reach out to these domestic violence shelters.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I did.
3
SPEAKER_00
And obviously there s people on those lists that need help.
3
SPEAKER_00
way faster.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I didn t have time like that.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I ended up selling a lot of my stuff, like my whole closet and using my savings and breaking my lease and getting out of there.
3
SPEAKER_00
He did still continue to bother me even after I moved back to my parents for like maybe a few months.
3
SPEAKER_00
But over time, it just slowed down.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then July 7, 2021 is when he pleaded guilty to all the charges.
3
SPEAKER_00
And the court sentenced him to participate in like a mental health program.
3
SPEAKER_00
However, because of COVID, I don t actually know if he ever had to do it.
3
SPEAKER_03
Wow.
3
SPEAKER_03
So you re still kind of living with this.
3
SPEAKER_00
He s out there.
3
SPEAKER_03
Oh my God.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t feel scared of him anymore or the situation.
3
SPEAKER_03
Do you spy on him at all, like with a phantom account?
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t even want to go there.
3
SPEAKER_00
There was a few other incidents that are notable that happened since I moved back to my parents.
3
SPEAKER_00
On January 23rd, 2021, I got a call from my DA and it was like, have you heard from him?
3
SPEAKER_00
Because he is a missing person right now.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I think what happened was that he was pulling the fake death thing again on someone else because they found him a few days later.
3
SPEAKER_03
Fuck, this is wild and terrifying.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s crazy, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
When I m talking about it, I don t really feel like it s real.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re probably disassociated of it.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Which you have to for survival.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s great.
3
SPEAKER_03
I hate to prescribe the source of the problem is a man, but I also think if we could get some renegade buck in there like me, who s just dying to defend somebody, can we get like a watchdog?
3
SPEAKER_03
Could you fall in love with a hillbilly?
3
SPEAKER_00
Who could I call?
3
SPEAKER_00
I need a service for that, honestly.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I volunteer.
3
SPEAKER_03
Like I want to be there and I want to see him on the thing and I want to go out there and just beat the fuck out of him when he comes back, I ll beat the fuck out of him again.
3
SPEAKER_03
And after 12 or so ass beatings, I feel like that might be the only solution left because the cops aren t helping.
3
SPEAKER_03
So maybe it s time for some bounty law.
3
SPEAKER_00
I actually saw him.
3
SPEAKER_00
in person once.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I moved back to New York City.
3
SPEAKER_00
I wanted to finish my degree and I got all that done, but it was the summer of 2022 and I was sitting in Bryant Park having a snack on a bench and I, out of nowhere, like I wasn t even thinking about him.
3
SPEAKER_00
I just had this like intense feeling that he was about to walk in on my right hand side.
3
SPEAKER_00
In my head, I counted down.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was like, four, three, two, one.
3
SPEAKER_00
And he
3
SPEAKER_00
He sits down on a bench near me.
3
SPEAKER_00
In my head, I m like, I expected this.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m not surprised, but I m also like scared.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I m just glaring at him though, like with rage.
3
SPEAKER_00
And he looks at me, realizes who it is and like gets up and walks away so fast.
3
SPEAKER_00
And he looked really scared.
3
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
3
SPEAKER_03
I m inclined to try to make sense of all it.
3
SPEAKER_03
And you just can t make sense of what s going on in someone like that s head.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_03
There s no predicting.
3
SPEAKER_02
Wow.
3
SPEAKER_02
What a story.
3
SPEAKER_02
Oh man.
3
SPEAKER_00
Thanks for sharing.
3
SPEAKER_03
I m so sorry all that fucking happened.
3
SPEAKER_00
I know it s so corny, but I m much better because of it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like I needed to learn a lot of things that I got.
3
SPEAKER_03
Well, that s a very glass half full takeaway.
3
SPEAKER_00
I have to be that way.
3
SPEAKER_03
You did not deserve it at all to have to be taught that lesson by the universe.
3
SPEAKER_03
Fuck.
3
SPEAKER_03
I m so sorry.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
Really?
3
SPEAKER_00
It is.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s not, but he s doing that probably to still other people.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I feel a weird responsibility that he s still out there doing it.
3
SPEAKER_03
You ve done everything that can be done.
3
SPEAKER_02
Literally everything and more.
3
SPEAKER_02
This is part of the whole problem.
3
SPEAKER_02
This, and then you are left feeling shitty.
3
SPEAKER_03
Oh, yeah, I have that guilt.
3
SPEAKER_03
Like, if I would have been honest about the dude who molested me, I probably would have prevented other people who have been molested.
3
SPEAKER_03
But it s like, I can t carry that, man.
3
SPEAKER_03
It s too young.
3
SPEAKER_03
Like, I need to save myself.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you do.
3
SPEAKER_03
It s gonna be so destructive in my head.
3
SPEAKER_03
Well, thank you so much for sharing that story.
3
SPEAKER_03
That was terrible.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s a terrible story, but I like it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Thank you for listening.
3
SPEAKER_00
I honestly don t tell the story a lot, usually because I feel like it s kind of unbelievable or it makes me sound crazy or I just don t want it to like affect my career or anything.
3
SPEAKER_00
So this is like the perfect kind of place to tell it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_03
Thank you so much.
3
SPEAKER_03
Well, I will say this.
3
SPEAKER_03
You still very much have your Tinkerbell energy and I m very glad that that wasn t ruined.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Still there.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_03
It s very much shining bright.
3
SPEAKER_02
That means a lot.
3
SPEAKER_03
All right, well, nice meeting you.
3
SPEAKER_02
Thank you for telling us that.
3
SPEAKER_03
Nice to meet you.
3
SPEAKER_03
Okay, take care.
3
SPEAKER_02
Bye.
3
SPEAKER_02
The world is scary.
3
SPEAKER_02
Those were juicies, man.
3
SPEAKER_03
Well, listen, this is what fucking sucks.
3
SPEAKER_03
The stark reality of that is that was four women we talked to.
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, exactly.
3
SPEAKER_03
And it s so fucking scary to be a woman on this planet.
3
SPEAKER_03
I m so sorry it is.
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, I shouldn t have interrupted that, because you re right, and thank you.
3
SPEAKER_02
And also, there were a few men who sent in, but then they didn t respond when Emma reached back out.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it s not to say it doesn t happen.
3
SPEAKER_03
Women stalk men for sure, but the threat level is much different.
3
SPEAKER_02
They re probably not chasing you down the street.
3
SPEAKER_03
And in fairness, one of the stalkers was a woman.
3
SPEAKER_02
But she wasn t the scary one.
3
SPEAKER_03
The affair woman is a woman.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
You re right.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_03
Everyone can go crazy.
3
SPEAKER_03
I just think the threat levels a lot.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
I can t believe she played dead.
3
SPEAKER_02
Oh, the brother pose.
3
SPEAKER_02
Oh my God.
3
SPEAKER_03
I have no sympathy for that dude, but at least it s illuminating.
3
SPEAKER_03
Like, well, sure.
3
SPEAKER_03
He s the product of a family that would all be in on this thing.
3
SPEAKER_03
The mom s definitely bonkers.
3
SPEAKER_03
No wonder the dad split.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Geez.
3
SPEAKER_03
All right, well you tell me the second something like this happens to you, Monica, and we re not gonna be a second visit.
3
SPEAKER_02
Somebody knock on wood, please.
3
SPEAKER_03
Okay, but I m just telling you, don t go to the cops, come to me, martial law.
3
SPEAKER_02
The cops are, I m sorry.
3
SPEAKER_03
Wow.
3
SPEAKER_02
I m sorry.
3
SPEAKER_03
Their hands are bound, like if you don t commit a crime.
3
SPEAKER_02
How is it not committing a crime?
3
SPEAKER_02
It s harassment.
3
SPEAKER_03
It is.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean, he did go to jail.
3
SPEAKER_02
They just kept letting him out.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like, at what point, I guess you have to be dead in order to send someone to jail.
3
SPEAKER_02
That s, oh my God.
3
SPEAKER_02
Anyway, okay.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it was very stressful.
3
SPEAKER_02
All right, I m stressed.
3
SPEAKER_02
Okay, bye.
3
SPEAKER_03
Say something positive, though.
3
SPEAKER_03
Let s end on something positive.
3
SPEAKER_02
Um, everything s bad, bye.
3
SPEAKER_02
All right.
3
SPEAKER_03
I love you.
3
SPEAKER_03
Whoa, that was a doozy.
3
SPEAKER_01
Do you wanna sing a tune or something?
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, a theme song?
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh.
4
SPEAKER_00
Okay, great.
4
SPEAKER_00
We don t have a theme song for this new show, so here I go, go, go.
4
SPEAKER_00
We re gonna ask some random questions, and with the help of armchairies, we ll get some suggestions on the fly, right?