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 Everybody wants to be loved in a different way and it may change over time.
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So you're constantly evolving and a part of your job as a good partner is to find out how does this person want to be loved.
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 Welcome to the School of Greatness.
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My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur.
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And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness.
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Thanks for spending some time with me today.
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Now let the class begin.
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 Welcome to this special masterclass.
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We brought some of the top experts in the world to help you unlock the power of your life through this specific theme today.
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It's going to be powerful.
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So let's go ahead and dive in.
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 What about the subtle red flags that you, maybe you saw over time, but you didn't take action on and you realized, oh, that was actually a much bigger flag than, but it was subtle.
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Like I let it kind of slip.
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What are those subtle red flags that people should be looking out for?
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If you tell me you're a vegan.
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And you eat meat.
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And I see you on Snapchat, you do some wings.
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You may think that's a small lie, right?
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But what does it say about that person?
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 It's saying that for some reason they feel that they need to, they can't be their true selves with you.
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They're trying to project someone who they think may impress you, and it's not really who they are.
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So when you see those subtle things that you don't understand, well, why didn't this person just be true and honest with me about this?
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This was a small thing.
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 How do you think they're gonna handle the big things?
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So I actually look at those little things.
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What kind of digital footprint are people leaving online on their social media?
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What do they think is funny?
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I remember once someone wanted to set me up on a blind date with an actor.
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 here in LA and I looked at him, I'm sure he had no shortage of women lining up to date him.
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And he'd reached out to a person who he knew was a mutual friend and said, you know, I'd like to meet Faith, would you set me up with her?
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Well, I went and looked on his social media.
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 And he had a joke that he put on his social media that I thought was really crude and that I didn't think was funny, but he thought it was funny.
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But in that moment, I said, I'm not gonna go out on a date with him.
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Some people may think, wow, you didn't even give him a chance.
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You didn't even, again, I know myself now.
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 I know myself and I know that when I date somebody, even what they put out publicly on their social media, that's a reflection of me.
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That's a reflection of our relationship.
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That's a reflection of all those things.
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You may think that joke was small, but to me, it represented a bigger picture of what I thought would be incompatibility.
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 How important is compatibility versus connection and chemistry?
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Of the three, connection, chemistry, and compatibility, which one is most important in your mind?
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Well, you need all three.
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When I think about compatibility, I think about not just making a decision about where you are now in your life, because over time when you get into a relationship,
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 As time goes on, people are going to change.
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When you lose a job or you get a new job, you have children, you don't have children, you go through
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 certain stressful situations with your family, your health, all of these things in life, they continue to change us and shape us into who we are.
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So when I think about compatibility, I think about a person who is committed to a certain level of growth.
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You are not just going together in the future, you are growing together.
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And
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 So that love has to be about being committed to the same commitment and a certain level of growth.
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When someone wants to continue growing and developing themself, when the other person doesn't want to, what happens in a relationship or a marriage when they're different there?
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 It's easy to fall in love, I think.
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I think it takes work to stay there.
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And so one example, I had a couple come into divorce court and the wife said, you know, initially our marriage was great, like most marriages, but over time,
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 he started saying things to me that would really hurt my feelings.
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I gained weight.
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I gained 15, 20 pounds over the last couple of years.
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And he would comment on my weight.
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And we were initially committed to just building each other up.
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And even when we had criticism to share with each other, we were always constructive.
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And we always thought, how can I say this in the most loving way?
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And so she said she continued to grow in that area, but he didn't.
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 And I turned to him and I said, so what happened?
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He said, well, I'm just speaking the truth.
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I said, would you ever say to a stranger the things that you're saying to your wife?
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This is supposed to be your best friend.
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He worked in a restaurant.
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I said, would you ever say those things to a patron in your restaurant, the things that you're saying to your wife?
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He said, I don't believe in divorce.
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We're Christians.
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We don't get divorced.
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I said, really?
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What does God say about love?
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You're a Christian.
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What does God say about love?
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Love is kind.
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Love is patient.
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Love is patient.
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 Love doesn't envy.
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Love certainly doesn't try to tear the other person down.
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So the commitment to that growth, it really shows up in the long term, in the longevity of the relationship.
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And if someone's not committed, again, you have to protect your peace.
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I would never advise staying in a relationship where you are being emotionally
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 abuse and disrespect it because I'm going to tell you what happens.
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It breaks my heart to see people come in and they've been in these relationships for so long where they have been repeatedly dishonored.
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You know why?
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Because over time,
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 When people have been repeatedly disrespected and dishonored, it becomes normal to them.
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It becomes a part familiar.
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And they in turn start to think they've been dishonored so much that they are not indeed worthy of honor because they've been dishonored repeatedly.
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Pain will subside in time after you leave, if you do the work.
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 But it will always be there if you stay in that type of situation.
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What would you say are the main causes of divorce then?
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Is it cheating?
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Is it disrespect?
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Is it a lack of growth?
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Is it foul play, emotional abuse?
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What are the main causes you see?
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People not being committed to the same commitment.
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And that is the growth, the love, the respect.
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Finding out how your partner
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 wants to be loved because everybody wants to be loved in a different way and it may change over time.
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So you're constantly evolving and a part of your job as a good partner is to find out how does this person want to be loved.
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If you stop doing all of those things, it's like if you maintain and you take care of your yard, what are the things you do to take care of your yard?
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 You have to mow the lawn, take care of the grass, fertilize it, pull out the weeds, all of those things to keep the yard looking great, to keep it growing.
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There are gonna be seasons.
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There are gonna be seasons.
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It may be dry one season.
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It may be a rainy season.
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You're gonna go through the storms, but just like in life, the seasons are gonna change, but what are you doing to maintain throughout all of those things?
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Being committed to doing the work to maintain
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 the relationship throughout the seasons is what speaks to success, and I see the opposite end of that.
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Because at no point can you just think that being on autopilot is what's gonna keep moving forward.
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There's a book obviously called, I think it's The Five Love Languages.
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Yes, I love that book.
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And I think it's such a powerful place to even just have a conversation with a partner in when you're dating.
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 and to take the love language test to see, does this person, do I like giving love in the way this person likes receiving love?
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I did this test with my girlfriend and I did it at the same time.
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I wish I would have done this in previous relationships.
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This isn't the end all, be all.
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This isn't like if you have this in a perfect alignment, your relationship's going to work out.
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But I think it's a great indicator of minimizing stress.
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 when you learn these things.
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And I realized that we have the exact same order of how we like to receive love based on the test we took.
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So we both like receiving love the same way, which means we both like giving love in the same way.
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Whereas in previous relationships, I didn't ask them, how do you really like to receive love?
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And they didn't ask me.
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We both didn't really do the test and go through that process.
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 And over time, I remember feeling like, oh, they really like when I do certain things that I'm not comfortable doing, or it's not my natural go-to.
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It's more of a strain, and it's harder for me to think of and remember to do certain things, and vice versa.
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They didn't like doing certain things that I like to be, I like being touched and told nice things, and they wanted to keep their hands to themselves, whatever it was.
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 And I was like, man, just like if people couldn't get an alignment on that, at least in a couple areas, I think it would make it much smoother in the process.
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And there's a lot of different things out there that people can do about that.
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But how important is that?
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Do you think figuring out the love language of your partner before you get married?
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 It's a part of the service that comes with being in a relationship and being in a marriage.
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Big part of marriage is service and sacrifice.
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And a part of the service is how am I going to serve my partner?
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I remember when my husband and I went through our premarital counseling and we did pre-engagement counseling even.
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 So before you got engaged, you did counseling.
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To see, is it worth getting engaged?
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And then when you were engaged, you got counseling to see like, let's go through.
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I think that's brilliant.
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I remember before, my current girlfriend, I remember thinking to myself, gosh, I would love to get into a relationship and start therapy.
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Like when everything's good.
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And see, are we in alignment?
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And like, diffuse some of the things that could be challenges in the future.
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 And we've been doing that in our own way, like she's got her own therapist, I've got mine, and we're starting to do stuff together.
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And it's uncomfortable to have certain conversations, but it's so freeing at the same time.
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So anyways, you did this because you were so serious about it, and what did you learn about doing counseling, pre-engagement, engagement, before marriage as well?
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 If I get engaged and then I go to premarital counseling, I've already made the decision to get married.
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So I wanted to know, because remember, you're talking about, I talked about the fear of the unknown.
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So I wanted to minimize the unknowns.
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So I thought, I have all these questions and I think I'm asking the right questions, but I want to know, is there something that I'm not asking?
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Is there another area that we need to explore?
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 Is there something else we need to talk about before we got engaged?
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Because we were talking about at that point, getting married.
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You know, so often when people get engaged and they announce it and they share with the world and the invitations are going out and then, oh, wait, wait, we need to do our premarital counseling.
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And you may find out something that you don't like.
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And are you going to see too late?
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 What are you gonna do?
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A lot of people feel the pressure.
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I've heard so many stories of people gotten divorced.
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I'm sure you've heard this too.
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Where the woman or the man said, I knew on my wedding day, this wasn't the right fit.
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It wasn't the right fit.
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Have you heard that before?
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Yes, they knew.
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And they still go through with it.
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I'm like, why do you put yourself through this?
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They don't want to be embarrassed.
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But then two, five years later, you went through just pain.
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 and sadness, and you settled for something that wasn't the right thing.
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People think that- And I'm not judging people here, because I've made a ton of my own mistakes, but it's like- We've all made those mistakes.
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We had to learn the hard way.
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Some people, you have to learn the hard way, and all opportunities for you to grow, but- But you can minimize that based on- You can minimize it.
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And maybe you go through all the premarital counseling and the pre-engagement, and it still doesn't work out for whatever reason, but at least you hopefully have a better- You did your due diligence.
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Yes.
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 You did your due diligence, so you can go in with a little more confidence because of your due diligence.
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And if something, when it came up in one of these conversations, that you were like, that's completely out of alignment with what I want, you could have figured out, is there a solution to this?
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If not, then maybe you wouldn't have gotten married.
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There are two things here about what you just said, which is great, because some people think that by getting married, it's going to change.
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 something or change a person or things will be different.
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The only thing a wedding will change is maybe your last name.
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 They, weddings will break the bank, but they will not break bad habits.
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So you can expect, when you get married, you've won the pie-eating contest.
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What is the prize for winning the pie-eating contest?
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More pie.
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You've won this person, what is the prize?
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You get more of them.
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So you better be happy with your choice.
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Yeah, and you can't change someone.
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Not because of pressure, or nagging, or crying, or any of those things.
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It has to be something that comes from within.
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Each person has to want to change.
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 I really don't think you can date or marry based on potential, personally.
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And I hear a lot of women saying, well, he's got so much potential, he could become this man, but then he never becomes it.
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That's why I wrote this book.
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That's why I wrote that book.
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And so you date or marry based on potential, but then you're really settling because who you're dating and who you're marrying is who they are.
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Maybe they grow into something greater based on what they want, but you can't expect them to be on a timeline you want.
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 you are dating their reality, you want to marry their potential.
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Those two things should be aligned.
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We went to pre-engagement counseling because I wanted to make sure that we were asking each other the right questions.
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 and we were getting to know each other the best we possibly could before even making the decision to get married.
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To get engaged.
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And then you had time to ask more questions.
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Absolutely.
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So what were the three conversations or questions that were the most challenging for you to have the courage to talk about or just navigate?
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What were the three most uncomfortable conversations in pre-engagement counseling?
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How have you healed from your past?
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 Healing is so key.
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It's so key.
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Because we both had past relationships that didn't work out for one reason or another.
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And I think we both wanted to know if there were going to be triggers that would bring out something from the past in our current relationship.
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There's always going to be residue.
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We're human.
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 You were talking about before we started that marriage is a technology.
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Now, what does that mean?
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What is the technology of marriage?
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I think anything that's designed to solve a problem is a technology, right?
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So, I mean, this mug is a technology.
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And what is the problem to which this technology is a solution?
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 Well, it's the problem of I can't hold hot tea in my hand.
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It's a problem of I don't want to use, and kudos to you for using non-disposable ones, that zero waste.
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And the truth is, is that it's designed to solve a problem.
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So the next question is, who has that problem?
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 Well, you know, anyone who wants to drink a beverage has that problem, you know.
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And the next question, and I think the most important question, is what problems does it unintentionally create?
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So, every technology is a Faustian bargain in the sense that it solves a problem and it creates a problem.
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 You've got to use water to wash it, you've got to store it.
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Exactly.
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Now you have to find stylish ones.
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I mean, you went classic plain, but you've got to find ones with witty sayings on them, and it can break.
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And now my favorite mug was broken, and how am I going to replace it?
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I mean, again, some of these problems are silly little problems in exchange for really great benefits.
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 Most people never ask themselves the question, the technology of marriage, which is a man-made technology, a human-made technology.
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We got together and said, hey, let's create this legal contract.
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Governed by a state.
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Right, governed by the state.
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Let's come up with something that, let's turn a lover into a relative.
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You know, let's find a way to turn this into a legally binding contract.
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 And people just go and sign up for this technology.
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And they spend more time thinking about what cake they should serve at the ceremony than thinking about, what did I just sign on for, and why did I sign on for it, and what are some problems it might create for me in exchange for the things that it solved for me?
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And by the way, will it even solve the problem that I'm trying to have it solve?
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And one of the things I talk about in the book is, if you got married to solve the problem of being alone,
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 You might be alone still in your marriage.
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If you got married because you want to have sex, you want to have more sex, being married is no more a guarantee of getting sex than living near a restaurant is a guarantee of getting fed.
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It doesn't mean just because you're in it, you're going to receive the benefit that you think you're going to receive of it.
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And how many couples before they get married really sit down and say, hey, we're going to sign up for this technology.
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 What do you want to get from it?
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What should I be wanting to get from it?
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How will it change over the years?
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That just doesn't happen.
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So if that doesn't happen, how are we then surprised that it doesn't work 53% of the time?
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53% is now the statistic.
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Is the divorce rate.
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 And the divorce rate, then more probably still don't work, but they're in it.
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Exactly.
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So that's the part, and it's funny that you go there, because that's where I go with it.
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So 53% is already terrifying, right?
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If I said to you, there's a 53% chance when you walk out of this room, you're going to get hit in the head with a bowling ball.
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Yeah, you're probably not going to go out.
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Or you're going to wear a helmet at a minimum, right?
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At a minimum, you're going to wear a helmet, but you probably wouldn't go out.
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 Now let's look at that number though, 53% and then divorce.
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That's U.S.
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or global?
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U.S.
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U.S.
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only, okay.
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Now think about what percent stay together for the kids.
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 that should get divorced but stay together.
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They can't stand each other.
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But they stay together.
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They stay together because they don't want to upset the kids or they don't want to give away their stuff.
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I would say another 75% stay together even though they want to get divorced.
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Okay, so let's say another 25% of married people, let's say.
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So now we've got a technology with a failure rate over 75%, okay?
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So now, what percentage stay together for religious reasons?
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 Probably a declining percentage over the years, but let's say, you know, 5%.
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That might be the same as kids and, you know, it might be the same.
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So, if I say there's a technology with a failure rate of 80%, Toyota had a .0001% brake failure.
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Nice save.
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A .0001% brake failure on one of their vehicles, and they recalled all of the vehicles.
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 So if I said 80% of technology, we still use it.
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Not only do we use it, we celebrate its use.
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Yeah, it's part of our culture.
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And we're shamed if we're not married almost.
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Absolutely.
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Well, because it's considered a sign that you're not mature and forward thinking.
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And we're shamed if we're divorced.
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Right.
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But now we're being celebrated to get out of marriages if it's not what we want or if we're not getting what we want.
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 That's a trend that's definitely starting to change.
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It's like leave him, divorce him or whatever, you know.
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Right.
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Well, I think it's self-actualization, you know, became more of a thing.
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And after the 1970s, you know, people started thinking about like, you know, themselves and their happiness.
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It wasn't just about the unit anymore.
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SPEAKER_01
It was about, you know, finding yourself.
0
SPEAKER_01
Then, yeah, it became more acceptable to be self-interested.
0
SPEAKER_01
I'm not going to say selfish because not all self-interested behavior is selfish.
0
SPEAKER_01
But it became more acceptable to say, I'm not happy.
0
SPEAKER_01
 I married this person when I was 20, and now I'm 40, and shockingly, I'm not the same person at 40 that I was when I was 20, and now I'm a different person, and it's no longer a good fit.
0
SPEAKER_01
The analogy I tell people is, if I said to you right now, you can have any car you want, what car would you have?
0
SPEAKER_02
 Well I just got a Tesla.
0
SPEAKER_02
I have a Tesla too.
0
SPEAKER_02
I actually don't care about cars at all.
0
SPEAKER_02
I'm not a big car guy either.
0
SPEAKER_02
But I got one for tax reasons actually.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I had a 1991, I still have a 1991 Cadillac El Dorado that had like 60,000 miles on it.
0
SPEAKER_02
 I Uber everywhere, I don't want to use it.
0
SPEAKER_02
I like the Tesla because it's fuel efficient, I just wish it had a bigger battery.
0
SPEAKER_02
You're a pragmatic guy.
0
SPEAKER_01
You ask most people that question.
0
SPEAKER_01
Ferrari, Lamborghini, I want a Maserati.
0
SPEAKER_01
Now if I then said to them, okay, you get one car.
0
SPEAKER_01
Whatever car you pick, that's the car you're going to have for the rest of your life.
0
SPEAKER_01
 Suddenly, a Lamborghini is a terrible idea, because you can't put a car seat in it for a kid.
0
SPEAKER_01
And you can't, you know, when you're 80 years old, get into that car, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
So if you are only allowed to have one car, you've got to find a car that not only makes sense when you're 20, and 30, and 40, but when you're 70.
0
SPEAKER_01
 And when you have kids.
0
SPEAKER_01
And when the kids have gone away.
0
SPEAKER_01
So, again, like a minivan that might make sense when you've got three kids, when the kids go off to college, that minivan no longer makes sense.
0
SPEAKER_01
Well, marriage is a technology where you're signing on with one person and saying, for the rest of my life, I'm going to be with this person.
0
SPEAKER_01
And that's a very challenging thing.
0
SPEAKER_01
But here's the thing.
0
SPEAKER_01
I actually think people give more thought
0
SPEAKER_01
 to the car they're buying than they do really to the technology of marriage and what about it specifically they like or don't like.
0
SPEAKER_02
What training or information do you think, do you wish every couple would go through before signing up for the technology of marriage?
0
SPEAKER_02
That's a great question.
0
SPEAKER_01
I think
0
SPEAKER_01
 You know, if you buy a house, you get a lead paint disclosure, you get a HUD disclosure that talks about the loan, you get all kinds of disclosures, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
You sign a will, there's all these pages that explain to you in great detail, you know, what's happening when you sign that will.
0
SPEAKER_01
You get married, you don't even get a pamphlet.
0
SPEAKER_01
You don't even get like a one-page brochure that says, by the way, this is the most legally significant thing other than dying that you will ever do, legally.
0
SPEAKER_01
 and you don't get any information about what just happened so the first thing i would say is i think everybody who's going to get married should have an hour consultation with a divorce lawyer.
0
SPEAKER_01
 Absolutely.
0
SPEAKER_01
So they should go into your office.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yes, but for a different reason.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yes, prophylactically.
0
SPEAKER_01
They should come in proactively and learn about what's about to happen legally, what's about to happen to my rights, what's about to change in terms of how I own property, the financial obligations I'll have to this person.
0
SPEAKER_01
I would also say one of the best things they could do is talk to someone candidly who's been married for an extended period of time.
0
SPEAKER_01
 You know, that's not something we do.
0
SPEAKER_01
We're not encouraged to be honest about our relationships.
0
SPEAKER_01
We're not.
0
SPEAKER_01
I mean, one of the things you talk about in Mask of Masculinity that I loved is about, particularly for men, but I think it's true for women too, we don't share candidly what's really going on in our lives.
0
SPEAKER_01
We're in a very curated society where you put up on social media the best picture and the best vacation photos and the best of everything we're doing and we don't share with each other
0
SPEAKER_01
 the challenges, we don't share with each other, even really relevant information.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like when I meet a couple who's been together for 20 years.
0
SPEAKER_01
 I want to know, I mean I love the story of how did you meet?
0
SPEAKER_01
How many times a week do you have sex?
0
SPEAKER_01
Who initiates it?
0
SPEAKER_01
Do you always do the same stuff because you've been together for 20 years and you know what each other like?
0
SPEAKER_01
Or do you like call an audible every once in a while and just do some wacky thing?
0
SPEAKER_01
What is it really like, the day to day of your relationship?
0
SPEAKER_01
And so many people, I mean you've been in relationships, I've been in relationships,
0
SPEAKER_01
 So many people just don't talk honestly, even when I'm with my guy friends.
0
SPEAKER_01
Do we really talk honestly about the day-to-day of our relationships, the way we talk to the women in our lives, the nickname they have for us or the nickname we have for them?
0
SPEAKER_01
Again, it's private to some degree information, but if we could share that stuff a little more, we'd have a lot more accurate of a perception of where our relationship stands in the scheme of things and how we're doing.
0
SPEAKER_01
 I really think there's this perception that people have of, oh, we're only having sex this many times a week.
0
SPEAKER_01
And it's like, well, OK, is that a lot?
0
SPEAKER_01
Is that too little?
0
SPEAKER_01
You have nothing to compare it to.
0
SPEAKER_01
So in marriage, there's no way to know if you're doing well at it.
0
SPEAKER_01
Because you can't say, well, we have fights every now and then.
0
SPEAKER_01
Well, OK, people have fights every now and then.
0
SPEAKER_01
But if you have a fight every week, that might be a lot.
0
SPEAKER_01
But how would you know?
0
SPEAKER_01
What would you compare it to?
0
SPEAKER_01
So I would say one of the best things you could do to people who are considering getting married
0
SPEAKER_01
 Put them in a room with people who've been good at that technology who've managed to not only endure marriage But endure it and still like it and thrive right and thrive right and still say you know what I'd sign on for this again Yeah, like in a room full of people.
0
SPEAKER_01
I'd still pick this person.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that's cool.
0
SPEAKER_01
You know
0
SPEAKER_01
 And how many of those opportunities we really get to talk to people that way about the relationship?
0
SPEAKER_02
Not many, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_02
And maybe also talk to someone who's been through divorce and ask them what didn't work and why didn't it work?
0
SPEAKER_02
And where did it break down?
0
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
0
SPEAKER_01
See, one of the principles that
0
SPEAKER_01
 Inspired me to write the book was the idea that you know again.
0
SPEAKER_01
I hate using car metaphors because I'm not a car guy But it's the best analogy I can think of in the sense that if when you bought a car You did every bit of preventative maintenance that a mechanic told you to do you change the oil every everything?
0
SPEAKER_01
Dentist you know and and she always says to me by the time your tooth hurts you
0
SPEAKER_01
 You're screwed prevent it.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah loss every day not after you do all this stuff She tells you to do when you go see her your teeth are gonna do well So it's for me who knows more about how a car breaks down than a mechanic, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
So I I know what
0
SPEAKER_01
 I know people are in my office, and I get a very candid view of them, and I get to talk to them, and I have been very blessed that people trust me with tremendously personal information.
0
SPEAKER_01
And so, what I wanted to do with that information is just find a way to leverage that into some kind of wisdom.
0
SPEAKER_01
 that people could use and say, you know what, just don't do what they did.
0
SPEAKER_01
When we were talking about titles for the book, you know, it was a hilarious escapade because, you know, one of the first ideas was what we'll call it, everyone screwing everyone, because it was about how people just abuse each other in the process of divorce and how they're really taking advantage of each other.
0
SPEAKER_01
And then we said, well, no, that's too pessimistic.
0
SPEAKER_01
 And we said, well, you know, maybe we can, you know, just call it, you know, vows and talk about, like, the promises that people make.
0
SPEAKER_01
But it's not really the promises that are interesting.
0
SPEAKER_01
It's the way that people go in with good intentions with those promises, and they just can't keep it together.
0
SPEAKER_01
Can't keep it, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
So, I really think that, you know, for me,
1
SPEAKER_00
 best thing we can do with anybody is to, yeah, show them a model of success, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
And show them a model of failure.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, and look, you've said it a million times on this show, that you learn just as much from your successes as your failures.
1
SPEAKER_00
You might learn more from your failures, even, to some degree.
1
SPEAKER_00
So, we don't have those role models.
1
SPEAKER_00
We don't have relationship role models, you know?
1
SPEAKER_00
And, you know, one of the things, you talked about masculinity when you're talking about
1
SPEAKER_00
 Neil Strauss and his marriage and how he says, look, it was my stuff.
1
SPEAKER_00
It wasn't like I said, oh, I don't like marriage because I don't like this about it.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don't like that it would force me to do this and force me to do that.
1
SPEAKER_00
And really what it was is he just didn't want to look at his own stuff.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
 And he felt like to have a good marriage, he'd have to look at his own stuff, which is absolutely true.
1
SPEAKER_00
Most of what my book is about is about, yeah, you gotta look at your stuff.
1
SPEAKER_00
If you wanna be successful in this technology, you gotta look at it, own it, and share it with this person.
1
SPEAKER_01
Be aware and be honest with the person about who you are and what you want, what you don't want.
1
SPEAKER_01
Now, you were married for how long?
1
SPEAKER_01
 I was married for 12 years.
1
SPEAKER_01
12 years, got divorced.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yep, got divorced.
1
SPEAKER_01
While you were a divorce attorney.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes, while I was a divorce attorney.
1
SPEAKER_01
So you're hearing these stories every day.
1
SPEAKER_01
And going through it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Going through your marriage.
1
SPEAKER_00
But you know, my marriage, I think, benefited from my experience as a divorce lawyer.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because you knew the cues of what not to do or what was going to work.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
But it was hurt by the fact that I love what I do for a living and was so consumed with it that I worked constantly.
1
SPEAKER_00
 You know, my ex-wife, who is one of my dearest friends to this day, she's remarried to an amazing guy who's a great stepdad to my sons who are now older.
1
SPEAKER_00
They're both in college.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I'm very blessed.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I've had an experience of divorce where I'm still close friends with her, I'm friends with her husband, you know, and I'm very lucky for that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because I look at it like there's a lot of people I love that I wouldn't want to be married to.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Sure.
1
SPEAKER_00
And she's one of them.
1
SPEAKER_00
She's someone I love.
1
SPEAKER_00
She's someone I appreciate, who I think is just an amazing person.
1
SPEAKER_00
But we don't have the chemistry, the exact ingredients that you need to be successful in marriage.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because we met when we were 17.
1
SPEAKER_00
And what we wanted when we were 17, 18, 19, 22 when we got married, 24 when we had kids.
1
SPEAKER_00
When we turned around and we're in our 30s, we went, you know, we don't actually have that much in common.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so either I'm going to have to stop
1
SPEAKER_00
 being who I actually am.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, I love to travel, you don't love to travel.
1
SPEAKER_00
You love, you know, I mean, from silly things, you love shabby chic furniture, and I like very zen aesthetics, you know?
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, you love this kind of movie, and I love this kind of movie.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you reach a point where you kind of go, well, do we white-knuckle it now because we don't want to quit something that isn't working?
1
SPEAKER_00
Or do we say, you know what?
1
SPEAKER_00
Let's call this.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Let's call this and let's find someone who feeds us in the right way and see if, or just be alone for the right reasons, you know?
1
SPEAKER_00
And I'm very blessed that the person who I was married to was mature enough to see it the same way and to have that painful but really wonderful conversation that so few people can have.
1
SPEAKER_00
And that is to say, look, this thing was successful.
1
SPEAKER_00
 You know, we both are leaving this better people than we were when we came into it.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we're leaving it with two kids that are the exact chemistry of the two of us, and they're made up of the two of us.
1
SPEAKER_00
But we're going to kind of take our different paths now, and let's still love each other.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Let's still respect each other.
1
SPEAKER_00
Let's just uncoupling.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that's the term that's been handed to it But you know, the truth is is I think people been doing it for years.
1
SPEAKER_00
You just don't hear about it It's not that my divorce is the least interesting thing about me really is Yeah, like if I said to you like, you know, tell me ten things about yourself the fact I'm divorced wouldn't make a list because the fact that I tried to
1
SPEAKER_00
 Marry someone and stay with them forever and it didn't work out, isn't that interesting?
1
SPEAKER_00
It's not that unique.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, what you hear about, the people who talk about their divorces incessantly are people who were wounded by them.
1
SPEAKER_00
And now they've been victimized by their divorce.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so it becomes a tremendous part of their identity.
1
SPEAKER_00
And they hold on to it for a while, and they talk about it, and here's what happened.
1
SPEAKER_00
 And so, there's a huge number of people that had divorces like mine, where the marriage just ended, it ended in a friendly fashion, they continue to co-parent successfully together, and they both live their lives.
1
SPEAKER_00
There's not this pain and resentment for years.
1
SPEAKER_00
 No, and I have to tell you, as a divorce lawyer, as a practicing divorce lawyer, a huge, I would say more than 50% of the people that I represent, it's that kind of transaction.
1
SPEAKER_00
It really is, that it's just two people, that their time is done, and now we just have to figure out how to divide up the things they have and work out the schedules with the kids.
1
SPEAKER_00
That's the majority.
1
SPEAKER_00
That's good to know, 50%.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I would say at least 50%.
1
SPEAKER_00
That's good.
1
SPEAKER_00
But the thing is, the other 50%
1
SPEAKER_00
 are louder, are so much more interesting.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, so much it's like, because really, who wants to hear about, like, oh, I talked to my ex-wife yesterday.
1
SPEAKER_00
She's lovely.
1
SPEAKER_00
She's moving to Rochester soon.
1
SPEAKER_00
That's her life.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's the drama on the train wreck.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, she threw a bat at me.
1
SPEAKER_00
She set my car on fire.
1
SPEAKER_01
It's way more interesting.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, man.
1
SPEAKER_01
Do you feel like, you know,
1
SPEAKER_01
 Marriage, I hear this all the time, it's something that's not gonna be easy, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
There's gonna be challenges, there's gonna be fights or arguments, and there's gonna be some things that you're not gonna agree on.
1
SPEAKER_01
If you ground everything awesome, but it doesn't sound like, there's many marriages that are always perfect.
1
SPEAKER_01
 and always smooth, after 10, 20, 30 years, there's gonna be some conflict.
1
SPEAKER_01
So does that mean, in your opinion, that we should just be like, you know what, let's just throw in the towel when it gets too challenging, or, you know what, it's getting challenging, that's when we gotta dive in deeper and come together as a marriage, because we signed up for this.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's a great question, I would say the following.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think one of the most common things people will say to you about marriage is, you know, marriage is hard, marriage is hard.
1
SPEAKER_00
 I don't know that that's true.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think if you consider paying attention hard, then marriage is hard.
1
SPEAKER_00
If you don't consider paying attention hard, then I don't think marriage has to be hard.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think that it's, again, not to use the metaphor again, but losing weight is harder
1
SPEAKER_00
 than maintaining your weight.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I really think, look, you're gonna have challenges.
1
SPEAKER_00
You're not necessarily gonna have fights, you're gonna have challenges.
1
SPEAKER_00
Life is gonna throw challenges in your way.
1
SPEAKER_00
Illness, adversity, career issues, you know, day-to-day miscommunications with each other.
1
SPEAKER_00
If you're not paying attention, those things get huge.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then the big, big things happen.
1
SPEAKER_00
So people come in and they go, I'm getting divorced because he's sleeping with his secretary.
1
SPEAKER_00
 You are.
1
SPEAKER_00
That's a great reason to get divorced, and that's a legit thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
He's sleeping with his secretary because there's something wrong in the marriage.
1
SPEAKER_00
And if you don't want to look at that, because you have some culpability in that, and it's easier to just go, oh, this harlot came and took him away.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it's a lot easier to say that.
1
SPEAKER_00
But the truth is, you stopped paying attention.
1
SPEAKER_00
And this is the question I find myself when I have a minute with a client who I've been some miles with.
1
SPEAKER_00
 And we're sitting outside of the courtroom waiting for the case to be called.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I have enough of a rapport with them, and we've been enough of a distance together that I feel like I can be candid with them.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'll say to them, was there a moment where you realized your marriage was over?
1
SPEAKER_00
What was that moment?
1
SPEAKER_00
 And you would be amazed at the insight if people think about that question that they give to you.
1
SPEAKER_00
I had a woman who said to me, and it was to me a very powerful example.
1
SPEAKER_00
I discuss a little bit in the book.
1
SPEAKER_00
She said there was a kind of granola that she liked, and you could only get it at like a certain store, like a Whole Foods or something like that.
1
SPEAKER_00
 And her husband used to always buy it.
1
SPEAKER_00
He used to always buy it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Whenever she was running low, she would just open the cabinet and there'd be another bag of it there.
1
SPEAKER_00
And she loved that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because he didn't say like, oh, and look, honey, I bought your granola.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, I get credit for that.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, like, he just...
1
SPEAKER_00
 would do it.
1
SPEAKER_00
He just saw that this was something that he was paying attention.
1
SPEAKER_00
He just saw that there was this little thing, and it was this little kindness that he showed her that let her know she was important to him.
1
SPEAKER_00
He was still kind of trying to woo her without being obvious about it, and he was still paying attention.
1
SPEAKER_00
And she said, then one day, she just ran out of the granola, and it wasn't there.
1
SPEAKER_00
So she thought, oh, well, maybe he's like busy, and he just didn't notice.
1
SPEAKER_00
So she kind of left the bag out.
1
SPEAKER_00
 And, you know, sure enough, he still didn't replace the granola.
1
SPEAKER_00
And she said she had a tangible memory.
1
SPEAKER_00
It was about a year before the actual divorce, but she had a tangible memory where she thought, OK, this is over.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, this thing is over now.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I think that
1
SPEAKER_00
 That's the thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
That's kind of, if you boiled my book down, one of the things I say to people is there's this thing in every relationship, some little thing that you had to, that you did for your partner or some little thing that you just had to tell them, that at some point you just stopped telling them.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
 I don't know if it's just in the morning saying, God, you're so pretty when she walks by, or if it's her saying to you, I love your strong arms, or whatever it might be.
1
SPEAKER_00
There's just those little things.
1
SPEAKER_00
We just want someone cheering for us.
1
SPEAKER_00
Why do we get together?
1
SPEAKER_00
We want connection.
1
SPEAKER_00
We just want connection.
1
SPEAKER_00
There's no other reason to get married other than wanting connection.
1
SPEAKER_01
 So people come in because they're in pain, and they want the pain to go away.
1
SPEAKER_01
And maybe they've tried something else that didn't work, and you're like, talk medicine.
1
SPEAKER_01
Without having to take a pill, how can I relieve this pain, this suffering, this problem?
1
SPEAKER_01
But the problem, what I'm hearing you say, is never about another person, it's always with them.
1
SPEAKER_03
 Well, not always.
1
SPEAKER_03
I think that, relationally, a lot of people don't realize that even if the other person is problematic... So, right, when I was training, one of my clinical supervisors once said, before diagnosing someone with depression, make sure they aren't surrounded by assholes.
1
SPEAKER_03
Right.
1
SPEAKER_03
Right?
1
SPEAKER_03
So, you know, it's not like there aren't problematic people out there.
1
SPEAKER_02
Their environment.
1
SPEAKER_03
 Right.
1
SPEAKER_03
But then what is your response to that?
1
SPEAKER_03
And I think that people don't realize how much agency they have.
1
SPEAKER_03
They don't realize that they can choose their response to their circumstances.
1
SPEAKER_03
They can choose their response to the people around them.
1
SPEAKER_03
And I'm not saying that there aren't incredibly daunting circumstances right now in the world, for example.
1
SPEAKER_03
But then how do you respond?
1
SPEAKER_03
You know, what are you going to do about it?
1
SPEAKER_03
And I think that's where people get stuck.
1
SPEAKER_01
 And you talk, I love your TED talk because you talk about rewriting your story from the past.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I believe that we hold onto our stories and we probably continue to write them in a more powerful way that keeps us trapped or traumatized.
1
SPEAKER_01
Is that fair to say that something happens in our past, we hold onto the story daily or whenever we're triggered and it's like amplifies the story in our mind.
1
SPEAKER_03
 Well, it does.
1
SPEAKER_03
And the problem is that often whatever that version of the story is, we carry with us and we never revise it.
1
SPEAKER_03
And so you create a story when you're younger, for example, about something that happened in your life.
1
SPEAKER_03
And then as an adult, you've never looked at that story through the adult lens.
1
SPEAKER_03
You're still looking at it through the childhood lens.
1
SPEAKER_03
And so that's why I say that when people come in, that we're all unreliable narrators.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_03
 that we all tell a story through, you know, this lens.
1
SPEAKER_03
And, and the thing is, these are usually faulty narratives.
1
SPEAKER_03
So there's a, there's a broader version of the story that people haven't looked at.
1
SPEAKER_03
And so I feel like in a lot of ways, what I do as a therapist is I act as an editor and I have, of course, a writing background.
1
SPEAKER_03
And so I help people to revise their stories because the reason they can't move forward in the story, the reason they can't get to the next chapter is because of something is wrong with the story.
1
SPEAKER_03
 They are stuck and so it's almost like I'm helping them with writer's block.
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SPEAKER_01
I mean for me life is an interpretation.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
Right?
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SPEAKER_01
There's an instance that happens and we can interpret it as good or bad or we can interpret it as this is a neutral event and I'm going to make the most of this.
1
SPEAKER_01
 Is that fair to say?
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_03
And also how we attribute other people's parts of the story, right?
1
SPEAKER_03
So who are the villains and the heroes in the story?
1
SPEAKER_03
You know, I talk in the book about the difference between idiot compassion and wise compassion.
1
SPEAKER_03
And idiot compassion is what our friends do.
1
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They back up our story.
1
SPEAKER_03
No matter what we say, this happened, this happened with my boss, this happened with my partner, this happened with my parent, right?
1
SPEAKER_03
This happened with my best friend.
1
SPEAKER_03
 And we say, yeah, that was terrible.
1
SPEAKER_03
Screw them.
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SPEAKER_03
They're a jerk.
1
SPEAKER_03
You know, that's awful.
1
SPEAKER_03
You're right.
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SPEAKER_03
They're wrong.
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SPEAKER_03
Don't let anyone treat you that way.
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SPEAKER_03
That's what we do.
1
SPEAKER_03
And if you've listened to your friend's stories, you start to realize over time that even though the situation and the names might be different, the kind of story they're telling is similar.
1
SPEAKER_03
It's kind of like if a fight breaks out in every bar you're going to, maybe it's you.
1
SPEAKER_03
But we don't say that.
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SPEAKER_03
That's idiot compassion.
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SPEAKER_01
 Maybe compassion is where we as friends say, yeah, you're the best person in the world.
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SPEAKER_01
This person's horrible.
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SPEAKER_01
Leave them or let them go.
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Forget about them.
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They're so bad at what they did.
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SPEAKER_01
There's always two sides to every story.
1
SPEAKER_03
Well, right.
1
SPEAKER_03
And so the value of therapy is that we offer wise compassion.
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SPEAKER_03
We hold up a mirror to you and help you to see yourself in a way that maybe you haven't been willing or able to do.
1
SPEAKER_03
And that's where the other version of the story comes in.
1
SPEAKER_01
 So how do we have wise compassion for our friends when they're like, she cheated on me, he left me, they had an affair, whatever.
1
SPEAKER_01
How do we change our story and also show compassion that we're there for our friends, not making, when they're in a vulnerable place, not making the other person right or wrong, but being there for them and also kind of giving them some tough love, I guess.
1
SPEAKER_03
 I wouldn't call it tough love, I would just call it... Reality?
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Love.
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Love.
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It's love.
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SPEAKER_03
It's much more loving to be truthful in a compassionate way.
1
SPEAKER_03
So I sometimes call them compassionate truth bombs because we need to hear them.
1
SPEAKER_03
But how do we do it?
1
SPEAKER_03
It has to do with timing and dosage.
1
SPEAKER_03
So the timing is when they're really raw, when something just happened.
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SPEAKER_03
You know, now's not the time to say, you know, this has happened with your last three boyfriends, right?
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SPEAKER_03
 Maybe you're the problem here.
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SPEAKER_03
Have you noticed that going through people's phones is not working well for you?
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SPEAKER_03
We are not going to say that maybe in that moment.
1
SPEAKER_03
So that's the timing.
1
SPEAKER_03
And then the dosage is how much are you going to say in a particular moment and in a particular conversation?
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SPEAKER_03
It doesn't all have to happen in one conversation.
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SPEAKER_03
 So, I think that that has to do with being a good listener.
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And a lot of us don't know how to listen, and I think it's really helpful.
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SPEAKER_03
I see a lot of couples in my practice, too.
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And if you can say to the person when they come to you with something, how can I be helpful in this conversation right now?
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SPEAKER_03
I know you're really hurting.
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SPEAKER_03
Do you want to just vent?
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SPEAKER_03
Do you want a hug?
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SPEAKER_03
Do you want me to help problem-solve with you?
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SPEAKER_03
Do you want my honest opinion, or do you want me to hold off and we can have that conversation another time?
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SPEAKER_03
 Let them tell you what they want so you can give them something that is helpful to them in that moment.
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SPEAKER_03
And then in another conversation, you might be able to offer them something more.
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SPEAKER_01
When they're not completely raw or broken.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
So what is that specific question?
1
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When anyone's coming to you with a challenge or a complaint or hurt, what's the question you should ask them?
1
SPEAKER_03
How can I be helpful to you right now?
1
SPEAKER_03
I know you're really hurting.
1
SPEAKER_01
 What does that do for the person who's hurting when they hear that?
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SPEAKER_03
It helps them to reflect on, oh wait, what do I need, right?
1
SPEAKER_03
Am I just gonna download all of this stuff and then I'm not gonna feel any different at the end?
1
SPEAKER_03
Or is there something else that I want right now?
1
SPEAKER_03
And maybe downloading it will make them feel different, just make them feel seen and understood and heard, which is important.
1
SPEAKER_03
Or maybe they want something else, but let them tell you.
1
SPEAKER_03
And I think the other thing is,
1
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 These three words that are really helpful when they're talking to you are, tell me more.
1
SPEAKER_03
So instead of saying, you know, when they say like, oh, here's what's going on.
1
SPEAKER_03
And we say, oh, well, we try to cheer them up.
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Like, you know, here's what you can do.
1
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We try to fix it.
1
SPEAKER_03
We try to cheer them up.
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SPEAKER_03
We try to make it seem like it's not so bad, whatever we do.
1
SPEAKER_03
Instead, just say, tell me more.
1
SPEAKER_03
We do this with our kids, I can say, as a parent.
1
SPEAKER_03
 We do this all the time, right?
1
SPEAKER_03
So your kid comes to you and says, you know, I'm really sad about this.
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I'm really worried about this.
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We say, Oh, don't worry.
1
SPEAKER_03
No, it's not a problem.
1
SPEAKER_03
And we say, Oh, don't be sad.
1
SPEAKER_03
Right.
1
SPEAKER_03
Go have ice cream.
1
SPEAKER_03
Right.
1
SPEAKER_03
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_03
But the thing is that then you get the message as a kid that like, Oh, wait, I, I'm not supposed to feel this.
1
SPEAKER_03
And really what it is, is we get uncomfortable as parents with our kids feelings.
1
SPEAKER_03
Because we can't, we are uncomfortable with feelings.
1
SPEAKER_03
We grew up in a way.
1
SPEAKER_03
 Where feelings were messy feelings were uncomfortable feelings were something that you know was they were gonna be trouble Yeah, as opposed to stop crying.
1
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Stop crying Yes, as opposed to just you know, let's feelings are actually a great thing people say Oh, there are these negative feelings like sadness anxiety anger, whatever even envy.
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SPEAKER_03
I always say feelings are like a compass they tell us what
1
SPEAKER_03
 what direction to go in.
1
SPEAKER_03
So with envy, for example, I say, follow your envy.
1
SPEAKER_03
It tells you what you want.
1
SPEAKER_03
If you are feeling envy, that's great because it says, what do I desire?
1
SPEAKER_03
It puts you in touch with your desire.
1
SPEAKER_03
What is it that I desire and what steps can I take to get something like that in my own life?
1
SPEAKER_03
If you're feeling sad, if you're feeling anxious, what is not working right now?
1
SPEAKER_03
 that you can look at if you stuff down that feeling, if you pretend it's not there.
1
SPEAKER_03
It just gets bigger and here's what happens.
1
SPEAKER_03
It doesn't go away.
1
SPEAKER_03
It comes out in too much food, alcohol, drugs, insomnia, a short temperedness, inability to function, distractibility, that mindless scrolling we all do through the internet.
1
SPEAKER_03
A colleague of mine said that the internet was like the most effective short-term non-prescription painkiller
1
SPEAKER_03
 out there, right?
1
SPEAKER_03
And so what happens is your feelings are still there, but you're not dealing with them.
1
SPEAKER_01
What happens when we never deal with our emotions or feelings?
1
SPEAKER_03
Well, you first of all, get sick.
1
SPEAKER_01
 physically sick, emotionally sick, mentally.
1
SPEAKER_03
Everything, everything, right?
1
SPEAKER_03
So we have, just like we have a physical immune system, we have a psychological immune system.
1
SPEAKER_03
And we have to take care of our psychological immune system.
1
SPEAKER_03
So it's just like, you know, what do you do to keep healthy with your body?
1
SPEAKER_03
Like you're gonna eat right, you're gonna exercise, you know, you're gonna do all the things that you wanna do to take care of yourself.
1
SPEAKER_03
You're gonna get enough sleep.
1
SPEAKER_03
Those things also help your psychological immune system.
1
SPEAKER_03
They're not totally separate.
1
SPEAKER_03
The mind-body connection is profound.
1
SPEAKER_03
 But at the same time, are you going to be around people who don't nourish you?
1
SPEAKER_03
That's going to hurt your psychological immune system.
1
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That's going to make you sick.
1
SPEAKER_03
Are you going to stuff down your feelings?
1
SPEAKER_03
That's going to make you sick.
1
SPEAKER_03
And so how do we take care of ourselves?
1
SPEAKER_03
And part of it is, instead of trying to numb out your feelings, because numbness isn't the absence of feelings.
1
SPEAKER_03
Numbness is a state of being overwhelmed by too many feelings.
1
SPEAKER_01
 Wow.
1
SPEAKER_03
And then not only do you not experience the feelings that you don't want to experience, but you don't experience the other feelings.
1
SPEAKER_03
You mute one feeling, you mute the others.
1
SPEAKER_03
You mute the pain, you mute the joy.
1
SPEAKER_03
So you're living in this state where you don't actually get to feel the range of feelings that make us human.
1
SPEAKER_01
What is that state called?
1
SPEAKER_01
Sick?
1
SPEAKER_03
Sick, I was gonna say dead.
1
SPEAKER_03
I mean, I feel like you can be alive, but not living.
1
SPEAKER_03
 And that's what happens to people is that they're alive, they're going through the motions, they wake up every day, but they're not really living their lives.
1
SPEAKER_01
 What's an assessment we could take for ourselves if someone's listening or watching to ask themselves how alive or how dead they are and if the people in their life closest are actually good for them or are hurting their psychological states?
1
SPEAKER_01
Is there a questionnaire we could take just off the cuff?
1
SPEAKER_01
Is there an assessment?
1
SPEAKER_01
Is there a few things we could ask ourselves?
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I mean, I think that it has to do with a sense of vitality, right?
1
SPEAKER_03
Which, of course, like vitality, the word life is right in there.
1
SPEAKER_03
 When you wake up in the morning, are you excited about what you're doing?
1
SPEAKER_03
Is there meaning in what you're doing?
1
SPEAKER_03
Do you feel connected to how you're spending your days?
1
SPEAKER_03
Because at the end of your life, are you gonna look back and say, what did I do that was meaningful?
1
SPEAKER_03
Maybe you should talk to someone.
1
SPEAKER_03
In my book, there's a woman that I treat.
1
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She's this young woman who goes on her honeymoon.
1
SPEAKER_03
She's newly married, she comes back, and she has cancer.
1
SPEAKER_03
And she says to me at one point, she says, why do we need a terminal diagnosis?
1
SPEAKER_03
 Why do we need a terminal diagnosis to live our lives with intention?
1
SPEAKER_03
Why do we need that to really pay attention?
1
SPEAKER_03
And I think that if we can keep the awareness of death sitting on one shoulder, and I don't mean in a morbid way or in a creepy way, it's not depressing.
1
SPEAKER_03
It's actually, again, going back to vitality, it helps us feel alive because life has 100% mortality rate, and that's not for other people.
1
SPEAKER_03
We like to believe that.
1
SPEAKER_03
 And so the thing is that if we know that we have a limited time here, I think we would pay more attention to what we're actually doing every day.
1
SPEAKER_01
Why is it so hard for people to pay attention?
1
SPEAKER_01
Fear.
1
SPEAKER_01
But they feel like they're stuck sometimes for years.
1
SPEAKER_01
It's like I stay stuck in a relationship that I know is not right for me for years.
1
SPEAKER_01
I stay in a depressed state for years.
1
SPEAKER_01
I stay in a job that I hate for years.
1
SPEAKER_01
It's all based on fear.
1
SPEAKER_03
 Well, I think it is fear.
1
SPEAKER_03
I think it's fear of uncertainty.
1
SPEAKER_03
This is gonna sound strange, but change is really hard because we cling to something that's familiar to us.
1
SPEAKER_03
So even though we may know, oh, this would help me, this would be a good change for me, we don't do it because it's unfamiliar.
1
SPEAKER_03
And so if you grew up with a lot of chaos, if you grew up feeling sad all the time or anxious all the time, that feels like home to you, even if it's unpleasant or even miserable.
1
SPEAKER_01
 She'll keep finding chaotic environments to stay in.
1
SPEAKER_03
It was funny because my own therapist gave me this great analogy.
1
SPEAKER_03
He said to me, he said, you remind me of this cartoon and it's of a prisoner shaking the bars, desperately trying to get out.
1
SPEAKER_03
But on the right and the left, it's open, right?
1
SPEAKER_03
No bars.
1
SPEAKER_03
So basically the prisoner is not in jail.
1
SPEAKER_03
 And that's what so many of us are like.
1
SPEAKER_03
We feel like we're trapped.
1
SPEAKER_03
We're not in jail.
1
SPEAKER_03
We can change.
1
SPEAKER_03
We can just walk around the bars.
1
SPEAKER_03
But why don't we?
1
SPEAKER_03
Because with freedom, the freedom to walk around the bars, comes responsibility.
1
SPEAKER_03
And if we're responsible for our own lives, that scares us.
1
SPEAKER_03
We feel like, oh, I don't know if I can do that.
1
SPEAKER_03
I don't know if I'm competent enough to do that.
1
SPEAKER_03
Or now I'm to blame if things don't go right.
1
SPEAKER_03
I can't blame it on everything else.
1
SPEAKER_01
 Is this one of the reasons why inmates, after a long time being in prison, who get out, go back into prison because they feel like they need to be back in that environment?
1
SPEAKER_01
Or are there other reasons maybe?
1
SPEAKER_03
I think there are other reasons.
1
SPEAKER_03
I think we don't give people the support when they come out.
1
SPEAKER_03
The mental health issues that they needed to be treated for, they never got that support.
1
SPEAKER_03
And then they come out, and they're back in the same situation where they don't have that community support.
1
SPEAKER_01
 Why is it so hard for us to take responsibility for our own happiness?
1
SPEAKER_03
I think that if you grew up in a household where you were seen and heard and understood, those are the people who do take responsibility for their own happiness.
1
SPEAKER_03
I think for people who felt like they were ripped off in their childhoods, there's a part of them that's still in a fight.
1
SPEAKER_03
There's a part of them that still wants that redo.
1
SPEAKER_03
 and so it's kind of like they're not aware of this but what they're saying is basically I will not change mom and dad until you give me the things that I did not get in childhood.
1
SPEAKER_01
So they'll go find a partner that
1
SPEAKER_01
 emulates their environment from mom and dad and try to change them so they... Well, right.
1
SPEAKER_03
This is the irony of relationship, right?
1
SPEAKER_03
For those people who have not sort of worked through it.
1
SPEAKER_03
This is so common.
1
SPEAKER_03
And I think all of us have this piece in us, right?
1
SPEAKER_03
Because nobody had a perfect childhood.
1
SPEAKER_03
So what happens is people say, okay, when I'm an adult, I'm going to pick a partner who really makes me feel nourished, who really gives me all those things that I did not get growing up.
1
SPEAKER_03
But what they don't realize is unconsciously they have this radar
1
SPEAKER_03
 for the people who look very different from their parents on the surface.
1
SPEAKER_03
But then once they get into that relationship, it's kind of like, oh, this feels familiar.
1
SPEAKER_03
Right.
1
SPEAKER_03
And so what they did was their unconscious said when they were picking their partner, hey, you look familiar.
1
SPEAKER_03
Come closer.
1
SPEAKER_03
Even though in consciously they thought, oh, you're totally different from my parents.
1
SPEAKER_03
I'm going to this is going to work out great.
1
SPEAKER_03
 But no, they have radar for that if they haven't worked out the stuff that's sort of their unfinished business.
1
SPEAKER_03
There's this saying, we marry our unfinished business.
1
SPEAKER_03
We actually do marry our unfinished business.
1
SPEAKER_03
So that is why it is so important as an adult to take responsibility and say, you know what, I am going to have to grieve this loss of what I didn't get.
1
SPEAKER_03
And I'm going to have to work through this and assess where I am as an adult so that I pick people and surround myself with people who are healthy for me.
1
SPEAKER_01
 What if you've chosen someone that you love deeply, but it's unconsciously your unfinished business?
1
SPEAKER_01
Is that the wrong person for you once you realize, oh, they're never going to change?
1
SPEAKER_01
Or is that a point for us to reflect back and say, actually, I need to heal the past, accept this person for who they are, and be willing to flow within this relationship?
1
SPEAKER_03
Well, what happens is, so you married your unfinished business, but so did they.
1
SPEAKER_03
 And so if you can both recognize that, if you realize, hey, wait, we have a lot of conflict in our relationship, or we're really avoidant in our relationship, or we don't feel connected in the way we want to feel connected, that's a great opportunity for both of you to work out your unfinished business.
1
SPEAKER_01
To heal together.
1
SPEAKER_03
To heal together, right.
1
SPEAKER_03
 And so that relationship could thrive if you both are willing to look in the mirror at yourselves and do the work.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yes, that could be a really beautiful relationship.
1
SPEAKER_03
And it can be very healing for both of you.
1
SPEAKER_01
In fact, it could potentially be the strongest bond ever if you both were able to go through that.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
But if you're unwilling to go through that,
1
SPEAKER_01
 Then what?
1
SPEAKER_01
You're going to be in pain?
1
SPEAKER_03
Right.
1
SPEAKER_03
Well, both people have to be willing.
1
SPEAKER_03
I mean, that's the thing.
1
SPEAKER_03
So it's like you may wake up one day and say, oh, wait a minute.
1
SPEAKER_03
I have all this unfinished business.
1
SPEAKER_03
And then your partner says, yeah, it's all you.
1
SPEAKER_03
You're the problem in the relationship.
1
SPEAKER_03
You know, it's kind of like in couples therapy.
1
SPEAKER_03
So often I'll see something like someone will say, like, you never listened to me.
1
SPEAKER_03
And I'll say, how well do you listen to them?
1
SPEAKER_01
Right.
1
SPEAKER_03
 Right?
1
SPEAKER_01
It's always like... If you're just yelling at someone all day, are they going to want to listen to you?
1
SPEAKER_03
Right, right.
1
SPEAKER_03
So, you know, there's this dance that we do in relationship.
1
SPEAKER_03
And what happens is people are doing these dance steps and people become very, they become very ingrained.
1
SPEAKER_03
It's like, oh, here we go.
1
SPEAKER_03
You can, you can script out people's arguments.
1
SPEAKER_03
You know exactly what they're going to look like.
1
SPEAKER_01
It starts with one thing and then it goes back into many different things and you're like, oh man.
1
SPEAKER_03
And you know exactly how it's going to go and who's going to feel what and who's going to accuse the other person of what.
1
SPEAKER_03
And that's the dance.
1
SPEAKER_03
And so if one person changes their dance steps,
1
SPEAKER_03
 The other person either is going to fall flat on the dance floor or they're going to have to change their steps too if they want to keep dancing.
1
SPEAKER_01
Thank you so much for listening.
1
SPEAKER_01
I hope you enjoyed today's episode and inspired you on your journey towards greatness.
1
SPEAKER_01
Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links.
1
SPEAKER_01
And also make sure to share this with a friend and subscribe over on Apple Podcasts as well.
1
SPEAKER_01
 I really love hearing feedback from you guys, so share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most.
1
SPEAKER_01
And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.
1
SPEAKER_01
And now it's time to go out there and do something great.