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My name is Lee Hawkins.
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I ve been a journalist for over 25 years.
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On my new podcast, What Happened in Alabama, I get answers to some of the hardest questions about how things came to be for many black Americans and the truth that must come before any reconciliation can happen.
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I investigate my family history, my upbringing in Minnesota, and my father s painful nightmares about growing up in Alabama.
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What Happened in Alabama is a new series confronting the cycles of trauma for myself, my family, and for many Black Americans.
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Listen now.
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Dana s and Becky s.
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Hardly a moment in my life goes by where I don t get asked about the show s closing theme song, Listen to Your Heart, by the phenomenal Edie Brickell.
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Where can I find it?
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Why can t I find it?
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SPEAKER_01
I need a copy of it, please.
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I have looked everywhere.
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Please release it to the public.
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I love it so much, over and over.
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Unfortunately, this has not been possible until now.
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Go to DontAskTig.org and click on the Announcements tab to stream the complete recording of the song with courtesy from Edie Brickell herself.
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Enjoy.
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And now you can stop asking.
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Also, a reminder that I m still on the road.
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I ll be in Jacksonville, Oregon, July 21st, Eugene, Oregon, July 22nd, Colorado Springs, September 25th, Breckenridge, Colorado, September 28th, Boulder, Colorado, September 29th, and Brooklyn, New York,
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November 4th at King s Theater.
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There s two shows.
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I believe the first one is sold out.
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I apologize again for having to move my taping from June to November, but because of the WGA strike, I had to move it to November.
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So go to TigNotaro.com for all show links and ticket information.
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Now let s start the show.
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Can we get a little taste of what a chicken sounds like?
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Oh, God.
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Why am I walking myself right into this?
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I don t know.
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God, it was so long ago.
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She s like, I ll give him a little turkey gobble and I ll get him going.
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You re hired.
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We will see you at 30 Rock, son.
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This is Don t Ask Tig, I m Tig Notaro, and the jury is still out on my advice.
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My next guest is an actor who stars in films including the X-Men trilogy, Sonic the Hedgehog, and The Notebook, as well as the hit new comedy show, Jury Duty, the Emmy-nominated series, Dead to Me, which earned him a Critics  Choice Award nomination, and the film, Walk of Shame, with yours truly,
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James Marsden, welcome to Don t Ask Tig.
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SPEAKER_03
Hello, Tig.
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How are you?
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SPEAKER_01
I am doing well.
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Way to finish those credits with the most important one.
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SPEAKER_03
I appreciate that.
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SPEAKER_01
Of course.
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Well, I mean, I think that s where you got your big boost in your career was working in a film with me.
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That was when I went stratospheric.
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SPEAKER_03
Yeah, well, we did.
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SPEAKER_01
When we did.
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SPEAKER_03
Yes.
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SPEAKER_03
I was just sort of idling along until Walk of Shame.
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SPEAKER_03
And then all of a sudden, we re just, you know, shot out of a cannon.
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SPEAKER_01
Right onto this podcast.
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SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
You were born and raised in Oklahoma.
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SPEAKER_01
I d love to know more about what life was like for you growing up in those parts.
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SPEAKER_03
What was life like growing up in Oklahoma?
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SPEAKER_03
You know, I m very fond of my childhood, having grown up there.
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We were on the outskirts of suburbia of Oklahoma City, but just enough rural so that I could hop on my bike and go to trails and go fishing and things like that.
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SPEAKER_03
So I was surrounded by the outdoors.
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SPEAKER_03
I got home from school and immediately just was outside, you know, which I don t think kids know what that is anymore.
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SPEAKER_03
So very, yeah, very kind of modest.
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SPEAKER_03
You know, we didn t
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SPEAKER_03
didn t have much growing up in Oklahoma but I had two brothers and a sister and we were all very close and you know it s like uh boy I m trying to think I m trying to decide whether or not I lie to you and say that it s way more interesting than it was
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SPEAKER_03
Or like that I was some rancher or something, learning how to lasso bowls and all that.
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SPEAKER_03
But nope, I was just enough to the city part of Oklahoma City to feel like I wasn t really out in the sticks, but just far enough out that I could actually feel like I was at one with nature, I guess.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
That s definitely something unusual for kids today.
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SPEAKER_03
Yeah, yeah.
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SPEAKER_03
And also, when I was in middle school, that s when I discovered acting, if you can call it that.
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SPEAKER_03
I was trying to stack my schedule in middle school with easy classes, because you have your main ones, like math and history and English and all that.
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SPEAKER_03
And I was like, drama?
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SPEAKER_03
That sounds easy.
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SPEAKER_03
Let s do that.
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And I was always a fan of
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SNL, and that was my dream, was to be a regular on Saturday Night Live, because I was just doing goofy impressions and accents and things and made people laugh.
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SPEAKER_01
James, you have to do some.
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SPEAKER_03
Oh, well, no.
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SPEAKER_03
They weren t great.
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SPEAKER_01
Well, this is a show called Don t Ask, Too.
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SPEAKER_01
This is, you know, low stakes.
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SPEAKER_01
Let s hear a little something for your SNL audition.
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SPEAKER_03
Oh, God, what would I have done?
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SPEAKER_03
I think I was just emulating everyone I was seeing at the time.
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SPEAKER_03
It was like I was just doing Dana Carvey bits.
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SPEAKER_03
I was doing, you know, the church lady and I was doing George W. and all that.
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SPEAKER_03
Basically, I wasn t doing my own stuff.
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SPEAKER_03
I was just ripping, ripping them off.
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SPEAKER_03
What would I have done?
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SPEAKER_03
I don t know if I,
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SPEAKER_01
Let s hear some George W. Come on.
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SPEAKER_03
Well, well, no, it wasn t George W. It was a George Sr.
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SPEAKER_03
OK.
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SPEAKER_03
It was when he was doing the wouldn t be prudent at this juncture, that whole thing.
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SPEAKER_01
So you were you were a big Dana Carvey fan.
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SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I was doing him and chopping broccoli and all that.
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SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it was just yeah, I think that was my kind of time period for SNL.
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SPEAKER_03
It was like him and Chris Farley and Adam Sandler.
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SPEAKER_01
And did you ever try to audition?
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SPEAKER_03
Um, I do have a vague memory of in Oklahoma, me and my buddy that we used to do like kind of comedy bits together for drama class.
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We heard that Saturday Night Live were like doing like a tour of the United States looking for people and there were stops in Oklahoma City and just like show up and come and audition.
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SPEAKER_03
So I remember doing that.
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SPEAKER_03
This is either a dream and it didn t really happen.
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before it really happened.
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And I think, what did we do?
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SPEAKER_03
I think they just said, just show us anything.
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And I think we literally just pretended we were chickens.
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We just sat around, we just clucked like chickens that were discovering one another in sort of like this weird mating ritual.
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SPEAKER_01
And they didn t hire you?
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SPEAKER_03
Shockingly, no.
0
SPEAKER_03
They did not.
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SPEAKER_03
I don t know why.
0
SPEAKER_01
You re like, fine, I ll just join the X-Men trilogy.
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I ll just go off and do that.
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SPEAKER_03
Right, right.
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They ll recognize my real talent with this chicken bit that I m doing.
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SPEAKER_03
I don t know why we did that.
0
SPEAKER_03
It was like, wow, we really picked the wrong thing to lead with.
0
SPEAKER_01
Speaking of the junior and senior Bushes, you have a place in Texas?
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SPEAKER_03
I have a place in Texas.
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SPEAKER_01
I lived in Texas many years.
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SPEAKER_03
You did?
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SPEAKER_03
Where?
0
SPEAKER_01
Outside of Houston.
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SPEAKER_01
I lived in Austin.
0
SPEAKER_01
I lived outside of Dallas.
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SPEAKER_03
You have family there?
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SPEAKER_03
What was the draw?
0
SPEAKER_01
I have family, and I grew up part of the time in Texas, but we still go back.
0
SPEAKER_03
The reason I took a liking to Austin specifically was because I had a lot of friends that lived there, and they were always encouraging me to come visit.
0
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So I was.
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For the last 20 years, I d go get out on the lake, Lake Austin.
0
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And it was just like, wow.
0
SPEAKER_03
This reminded me of the good parts of growing up in Oklahoma, but much prettier.
0
SPEAKER_03
I mean, Oklahoma is beautiful, it can be beautiful, but Austin and Texas Hill Country was just really, really special.
0
SPEAKER_03
And it s a two-hour flight from L.A., and so I ve been visiting for 20 years and just playing with the idea that can you live somewhere else outside of L.A.
0
SPEAKER_03
and still work in this business?
0
SPEAKER_03
And the answer is yes, because we re always, I don t know, we have a tendency to lead nomadic lifestyles anyway.
0
SPEAKER_01
Was it hard to actually put roots down there?
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Did you feel like, oh, I live here?
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SPEAKER_01
Or did you feel like, oh, I m away from home in this other home?
0
SPEAKER_03
The latter.
0
SPEAKER_03
I mean, it s, you know, I m there plenty of the year.
0
SPEAKER_03
But when I m there, you re right.
0
SPEAKER_03
It was like, what s my life here?
0
SPEAKER_03
Because I ve lived in LA for 30 years now.
0
SPEAKER_01
You can t inner tube all day in Austin.
0
SPEAKER_01
No.
0
SPEAKER_03
And it s a very leisurely city.
0
SPEAKER_03
It s very like, cold beer, barbecue.
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I know it, sir.
0
SPEAKER_03
Get some country music going, get out on the boat.
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SPEAKER_01
You like country music?
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SPEAKER_01
I do.
0
SPEAKER_03
I grew up with country music.
0
SPEAKER_03
I was in a country band for a little bit, yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
What do you play?
0
SPEAKER_03
I play guitar and I sing.
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SPEAKER_01
Wow.
0
SPEAKER_01
Can t wait to get our country band going.
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SPEAKER_01
Do you like new country, old country?
0
SPEAKER_01
You like it both?
0
SPEAKER_03
I like prime country on XM satellite.
0
SPEAKER_03
That s like 90s country, like Tim McGraw, George Strait, Garth Brooks.
0
SPEAKER_03
Grew up with Garth Brooks.
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SPEAKER_03
Both of us went to Oklahoma State and Stillwater.
0
SPEAKER_03
In fact, my band in high school and into college, all we did is Garth Brooks covers.
0
SPEAKER_01
Love me some Garth.
0
SPEAKER_03
Garth s great.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_03
And my ex-wife, who I m still very, very close with, she s like my bestie, her father wrote Colin Baton Rouge, that Garth Brooks song.
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SPEAKER_01
That is my favorite Garth Brooks song.
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SPEAKER_03
Are you kidding?
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SPEAKER_03
Really?
0
SPEAKER_01
I love that song so much.
0
SPEAKER_03
I m going to send you his demo that he played for Garth.
0
SPEAKER_03
It s so different than how the song turned out.
0
SPEAKER_03
Because a lot of times, his name s Dennis Lindy.
0
SPEAKER_03
He also wrote Goodbye Earl for the Dixie Chicks.
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh my gosh.
0
SPEAKER_03
He was a legend.
0
SPEAKER_03
He s not with us anymore, but he was an incredible songwriter.
0
SPEAKER_03
But he was kind of like this character.
0
SPEAKER_03
He took on these characters when he wrote these songs and sometimes intimidate the artists.
0
SPEAKER_03
A lot of his songs weren t sing-songy ballads.
0
SPEAKER_03
They were kind of like
0
SPEAKER_03
Warren Zevon and kind of Randy Newman structures and stuff.
0
SPEAKER_03
Anyway, the demo of that is so lo-fi and simple and he s playing a kazoo on it at some point.
0
SPEAKER_03
You ll love it.
0
SPEAKER_03
But now you go to an LSU game, the entire stadium is singing Colin Baton Rouge.
0
SPEAKER_03
And it s pretty cool to see.
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh my, I had no idea.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I have family out in Louisiana, Mississippi, all that.
0
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, that s my...
0
SPEAKER_01
Hands down favorite Garth Brooks song.
0
SPEAKER_01
I love it so much.
0
SPEAKER_03
Love that tune.
0
SPEAKER_03
But yes, country music s always been something I ve been a fan of.
0
SPEAKER_03
Did you grow up, did you, forgive me, I should know this, but did you grow up in Texas?
0
SPEAKER_01
Mississippi, Texas, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_03
Hard to avoid the country music influence coming from those parts.
0
SPEAKER_01
It is very hard.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s all over there.
0
SPEAKER_03
You either grew up hating it or you grew up embracing it to some degree.
0
SPEAKER_01
Or you grow up hating it, and then you get older, and you go, oh, this sounds good again.
0
SPEAKER_03
It s kind of good.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you go out on a boat, have a drink in the sunshine.
0
SPEAKER_03
Putting on some Clint Black.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yes, sir.
0
SPEAKER_03
Vince Gill.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yes, sir.
0
SPEAKER_03
Oh, man.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I do enjoy all that.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, so I ll get the guitar out occasionally when I m in Austin, and we ll have little sing-alongs here and there.
0
SPEAKER_01
Well, I really can t wait for our band.
0
SPEAKER_01
Now, James, let s talk about your latest project, Jury Duty.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s gotten a lot of buzz.
0
SPEAKER_01
For my listeners who have not seen it, would you explain what it s about?
0
SPEAKER_03
Sure.
0
SPEAKER_03
So it s a TV show.
0
SPEAKER_03
It s as if you took The Office and The Truman Show and sort of fused them together with a backdrop of jury duty.
0
SPEAKER_03
So you have essentially a whole cast of actors, improv artists, myself, who s I m playing myself, a sort of heightened, entitled Hollywood.
0
SPEAKER_01
Did you do any chicken?
0
SPEAKER_03
No, no, no.
0
SPEAKER_03
They didn t ask for it.
0
SPEAKER_03
I offered it up, but they were saying, we don t need it.
0
SPEAKER_03
We re good.
0
SPEAKER_03
Maybe.
0
SPEAKER_01
Their loss?
0
SPEAKER_03
Yep, their loss.
0
SPEAKER_03
And one guy that thinks the whole thing is real, and it s all fake.
0
SPEAKER_03
So you re thinking at this point, if you haven t seen the show, is this a prank show?
0
SPEAKER_03
Are they just fooling him for a couple of weeks of his life?
0
SPEAKER_03
And I wasn t interested in doing it if it was going to be anything mean-spirited or cruel, because three weeks is a long time to keep somebody in the dark.
0
SPEAKER_03
One person in the dark and the rest of us are following these scripts.
0
SPEAKER_03
So there were scripts, but there was no scripted dialogue.
0
SPEAKER_03
It was like comedy beats.
0
SPEAKER_03
Marsden stands up and tries to get out of jury duty by saying he s a distraction.
0
SPEAKER_03
Todd walks in wearing chair pants, you know, stuff like that.
0
SPEAKER_03
And then we get to kind of play with it on top of it.
0
SPEAKER_03
So that s basically it.
0
SPEAKER_03
They ve said, we re not doing a prank show.
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SPEAKER_03
We want to see if we can create a hero s journey for somebody.
0
SPEAKER_03
So the idea was we re going to surround this guy who doesn t know the whole thing is fake with absurd scripted circumstances and see how he reacts.
0
SPEAKER_03
I mean, we kind of threw a moral obstacle course at him and he just, you know, he passed with flying colors.
0
SPEAKER_03
Not that that was our intention.
0
SPEAKER_03
It was just, let s hoist this guy on our shoulders at the end of this and celebrate his humanity, but in doing it in a really kind of unconventional way.
0
SPEAKER_03
We re going to bamboozle him for two and a half weeks.
0
SPEAKER_01
And what was most rewarding to you about doing this type of show?
0
SPEAKER_03
Well, I was excited about getting in a room with improv artists and playing, because I d never really exercised that muscle before.
0
SPEAKER_03
But Christopher Guest was a huge hero of mine.
0
SPEAKER_03
I mean, my dream would be to, if I didn t get cast from the Chickens to be a regular on SNL, my next goal would be to see if Christopher Guest would cast me in Waiting for Guffman or Best in Show or one of these other
0
SPEAKER_03
great pieces where it s just like you have a structure and then you get to kind of just play with it and stay in that character and throw everything up against the wall.
0
SPEAKER_03
So that was very gratifying to get into a room and mess around.
0
SPEAKER_03
What I wasn t prepared for was the sort of wild animal in a cage element of this guy who s there
0
SPEAKER_03
thinking that the whole thing is real with real stakes.
0
SPEAKER_03
So it was this balancing act of like playing the kind of goofy, entitled, petulant brat Hollywood celebrity.
0
SPEAKER_03
But then in addition to that, you re trying to get him to the finish line.
0
SPEAKER_03
You re trying to kind of steer him through this sort of maze of absurdity.
0
SPEAKER_03
And hopefully by the end of it, he has a good time and he doesn t have a full-on mental breakdown.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I think that was the most rewarding thing, to be honest.
0
SPEAKER_01
What was the most challenging part of the whole process?
0
SPEAKER_03
There were moments where we were never aiming at him for the jokes.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_03
You know, we were aiming at each other.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_03
I don t want him to feel like he s ever the butt of a joke.
0
SPEAKER_02
Right.
0
SPEAKER_03
And there were moments where, even though he was on the periphery, we were doing stupid, foolish things that sometimes would elicit a response from him of, like, disappointment.
0
SPEAKER_03
He was so empathic.
0
SPEAKER_03
Like, if we were embarrassing somebody because it was scripted,
0
SPEAKER_03
he felt bad for that person.
0
SPEAKER_03
So it was like, well, you didn t want him to feel bad for this person.
0
SPEAKER_03
But that was the hardest thing, was like, I really struggled with that every day.
0
SPEAKER_03
Like, boy, what are we doing to this guy?
0
SPEAKER_03
This is his reality.
0
SPEAKER_03
He s getting to be friends with us.
0
SPEAKER_03
We re getting to be friends with him.
0
SPEAKER_03
and really caring about each other and having genuine laughs and forging these real relationships.
0
SPEAKER_03
And he thinks, I mean, I was named James, but everyone else had a fake name.
0
SPEAKER_03
And then at the end of it, he s like, wait, so you re not really Ron?
0
SPEAKER_03
You re not really Genie?
0
SPEAKER_03
So it just was kind of like you just had to cross your fingers and hope that our endeavor to create this hero s path for somebody, that he ll end up feeling it and that he will have enjoyed the experience
0
SPEAKER_03
That was the hardest part.
0
SPEAKER_03
And actually, as you go on, the Jenga tower gets taller.
0
SPEAKER_03
As you get closer to the end, the stakes are much greater because if we screw it up now, then Amazon has two and a half weeks of footage that they can t use.
0
SPEAKER_03
So it s kind of wild.
0
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
Any advice you would give your younger self just starting out as an actor, as we almost transition into our advice questions?
0
SPEAKER_01
Right.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_03
Boy, don t force anything.
0
SPEAKER_03
A good performance is never going to come from really muscling your way through it.
0
SPEAKER_02
Have fun.
0
SPEAKER_03
Have a great time.
0
SPEAKER_03
When I look back on the things that worked, it was because I was just having a blast.
0
SPEAKER_03
And jury duty is a perfect, prime example of that.
0
SPEAKER_03
I was having so much fun.
0
SPEAKER_01
Are you good at giving advice?
0
SPEAKER_03
It depends on the topic.
0
SPEAKER_03
But yeah, typically, I feel like I m a pretty good friend that way.
0
SPEAKER_03
But I would never try to do something, give somebody advice, where I m out of my jurisdiction.
0
SPEAKER_03
I would not, no.
0
SPEAKER_01
Well, you play a juror who is less than perfect.
0
SPEAKER_01
Maybe you can still help.
0
SPEAKER_03
Well, are you saying the jury s still out on that?
0
SPEAKER_03
Jury s still out.
0
SPEAKER_01
Maybe you can help with the first listener.
0
SPEAKER_03
Okay.
0
SPEAKER_01
Cece writes, I have lived in my apartment in Manhattan for four years.
0
SPEAKER_01
In the past six months, I ve received three postal letters for the former tenant for jury summons, all with an urgent notification.
1
SPEAKER_00
I haven t opened the letters and left them in my mailbox.
1
SPEAKER_00
Should I try to contact the person this was originally addressed to?
1
SPEAKER_00
Should I contact the local government?
1
SPEAKER_00
What is my civic duty here?
1
SPEAKER_01
You get a lot of government officials listening to your show.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s the only, my podcast, my standup, everything.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s all government officials.
1
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, yes, you contact that gentleman or wonderful woman and you let them know.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was going to say, pitch him because he s probably just going to pitch him anyway.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was also going to say, just do the very lazy thing of return to sender.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, you know, you can just write that on an envelope and drop it in the mail and you ve... How old is this person?
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_01
They don t disclose their age?
1
SPEAKER_01
Because if they re under 30, they don t even know what drop it in the mail means.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_01
You said it d be lazy, but that actually sounds like, to a Gen Z-er, like a lot of work.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I think it s the right thing to do.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Locate a pen.
1
SPEAKER_01
What s a pen?
1
SPEAKER_00
Write on the envelope where it s addressed to the old tenant and write off to the side, return to sender, underline it.
1
SPEAKER_00
If you don t know where to do it, Google where to write return to sender, and then Google what a mailbox looks like, and then walk out of your house and drop that into the mailbox.
1
SPEAKER_01
She s in New York, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, there s pigeons there, too.
1
SPEAKER_01
You could attach it to a carrier pigeon.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, there you go.
1
SPEAKER_01
James and I. We re going way back in time.
1
SPEAKER_00
Back in the days of classic country.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
So that s how you do it.
1
SPEAKER_01
I ve never done the return to sender thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
You just write on the envelope, return to sender, and then drop it in one of those blue mailboxes that are on the side of the street.
1
SPEAKER_00
Or even in your own mailbox.
1
SPEAKER_01
Right.
1
SPEAKER_01
OK.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then they return it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then if they don t, at least your conscience is free.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, and you can also write on there, no longer at this address.
1
SPEAKER_01
Can I write that on all the junk mail that I get in my mailbox?
1
SPEAKER_00
You can write it on a wall.
1
SPEAKER_00
You can write anything you want anywhere.
1
SPEAKER_00
You might get in some trouble.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m going to write it on a wall.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m going to spray paint it on a wall.
1
SPEAKER_01
Return to sender.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s a good plan.
1
SPEAKER_00
Cece, James and I find you guilty of not forwarding mail.
1
SPEAKER_00
You are sentenced to listen to the rest of this episode, which will return right after this break.
1
SPEAKER_00
James, don t go anywhere.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we re back, James.
1
SPEAKER_00
Our next question is from A Bride to Be.
1
SPEAKER_00
Deirdre writes, dear Tig and special guest, my fiance and I are just starting to plan a wedding.
1
SPEAKER_00
We have many polyamorous friends, but are not made of money.
1
SPEAKER_00
What is the best way to ask our polyamorous friends to only bring one guest, especially when this request won t be true for all our polyamorous friends?
1
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes we are friends with a whole polycule.
1
SPEAKER_00
Thanks for your help.
1
SPEAKER_01
Okay, this is gonna need some explanation for me.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m not familiar with a polycule.
1
SPEAKER_00
Are you?
1
SPEAKER_01
Polycule?
1
SPEAKER_01
Is that a play on the word molecule?
1
SPEAKER_01
What is that, polycule?
1
SPEAKER_00
I m guessing it s a bunch of people that are in a relationship together.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_01
Is that polyamory?
1
SPEAKER_01
It s like an open relationship with several people?
1
SPEAKER_01
Is that what that is?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think so.
1
SPEAKER_01
Am I selling the idea that it s confusing to me?
1
SPEAKER_01
And that I don t practice this on my day-to-day?
1
SPEAKER_00
What is this weird concept that I secretly do?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
OK, so wait, they re trying to plan a wedding for themselves?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, but they have all these polyamorous friends.
1
SPEAKER_00
So then all of a sudden, it becomes a circus of how many guests they re inviting to their house.
1
SPEAKER_01
No, no, no.
1
SPEAKER_01
No matter if you exercise polyamory relationships or not, you should be allowed one guest.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s just a plus one.
1
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t matter what the nature of your relationships.
1
SPEAKER_01
You should just have a plus one.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, there were times where I was dating casually.
1
SPEAKER_01
Hundreds of people, the same?
1
SPEAKER_00
Four different people.
1
SPEAKER_00
And if I got invited to a wedding, I wouldn t be like, can I have plus four?
1
SPEAKER_01
But I m in love with all of them.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s going to be strange to only share it with one of them.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think I thought I was.
1
SPEAKER_01
That is an interesting one.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, but also, what do the polycules expect?
1
SPEAKER_00
I think they want it all.
1
SPEAKER_00
They got it all.
1
SPEAKER_01
I guess the bride and groom are not polyamorous, otherwise they would be marrying a host of people.
1
SPEAKER_01
But they have lots of polyamorous friends.
1
SPEAKER_00
Seems like we need to figure out what this is before we can even guide anybody.
1
SPEAKER_01
I agree.
1
SPEAKER_01
I feel ill-equipped to answer this.
1
SPEAKER_00
I feel like because I m in the LGBTQ world that I should know all this, but I don t even though it s not necessarily bi or gay or trans.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s not specific to LGBTQ.
1
SPEAKER_01
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
If anything s gender or sexuality, usually it s like, come on into our group.
1
SPEAKER_01
Maybe it just depends on the bride and groom s intentions.
1
SPEAKER_01
Maybe if they re wanting to open up their mind to exploring polyamory on the day that they give their vows, maybe they do allow a couple extra guests.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I don t want to be presumptuous to say that that s what they re exploring.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t think they are.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I think if just buy the books, you get a plus one.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s it.
1
SPEAKER_00
You get a plus one.
1
SPEAKER_00
All right.
1
SPEAKER_01
You get a plus one.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s an easy one.
1
SPEAKER_00
Deirdre, weddings are tricky, but congratulations to you and your fiancé, and keep us updated if you add a plus one to your marriage.
1
SPEAKER_00
James, this next question was sent in by a listener named Fiona.
1
SPEAKER_00
Fiona writes, how do I handle my 13-year-old daughter s tantrums?
1
SPEAKER_00
She s going through a lot of changes and finding life a bit confusing, but the tantrums are hard to cope with.
1
SPEAKER_00
She didn t have them at two years old, and I think this is harder.
1
SPEAKER_00
Help.
1
SPEAKER_00
I only have two nearly seven-year-old boys.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it s one of those things where I think of, is that down the road of having tantrums?
1
SPEAKER_01
Maybe, maybe not.
1
SPEAKER_01
Maybe, maybe not.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I have two boys and a girl, and my oldest boy is 22.
1
SPEAKER_01
My girl is 17.
1
SPEAKER_01
There s a lot going on there for boys and girls, but I d say specifically girls, and this is through my ex-wife teaching me about it, changing their bodies and hormones.
1
SPEAKER_00
Also, the time of what s going on now in the world.
1
SPEAKER_01
In the world, and your self-worth, you feel like it s measured.
1
SPEAKER_01
off of social media.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, God, I just hate that for young girls.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t know what the tantrum is about.
1
SPEAKER_01
I do know that these storms come by.
1
SPEAKER_01
And the storms pass.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s usually all good at the end of it.
1
SPEAKER_01
And finding a balance of
1
SPEAKER_01
Let s talk about your feelings while they re screaming and throwing s*** across the room.
1
SPEAKER_01
But also, you can t be screaming and throwing things and hitting people.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, no, you can t do that.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I guess it s just a tricky thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
Depends on the personality of the kid and allowing them to have these tantrums.
1
SPEAKER_01
Or if you re going to have the tantrum, go have it in private.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, you know, it s funny because I was imagining what would my instinct be just based on not having this experience yet.
1
SPEAKER_00
Our big punishment in our house is
1
SPEAKER_00
All right, you re going to have to go sit by the front door.
1
SPEAKER_00
And they are terrified of that.
1
SPEAKER_00
And they want to avoid sitting by the front door at all costs.
1
SPEAKER_00
But when I think about what if it escalated?
1
SPEAKER_00
I just wonder if and I hear what you re saying, you don t want to get to like, I feel this and I think this when somebody is losing their mind.
1
SPEAKER_00
But my instinct would be, do you have nature around you?
1
SPEAKER_00
It might be really nice and calming, and this might be some hippie side of me, but to go sit by an ocean, to go take a walk in the woods.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, you re right.
1
SPEAKER_00
or go if there s a big piece of land or pasture to lie down in and just look at the sky and talk to your child.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I m not saying it like it s as easy as that.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is totally coming from somebody that has seven-year-old boys that are scared to sit by the front door.
1
SPEAKER_00
That would be my instinct is to try and go talk to them in wide open nature.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Try and connect there.
1
SPEAKER_01
I agree with that.
1
SPEAKER_00
I also think it s important to see if they want to speak to a therapist, somebody that isn t directly related to the family.
1
SPEAKER_01
Great advice.
1
SPEAKER_01
Great advice.
1
SPEAKER_00
See if the therapist would come to the beach with you and lie down and look at the sky.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s really smart because sometimes it s just like getting them out of that space and like, go move the legs, move the furniture around, go walk.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, and to see that the world is bigger than what s going on right under your nose, and that s looking at a sky so huge, or an ocean so huge, or a forest so deep in the woods.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s a reminder that your problems aren t as big as maybe they feel.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and I ve truly gone and would lie down in a field and stare up at the sky.
1
SPEAKER_00
I remember once when I was heartbroken.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that is what I did to just kind of take in and deal with my emotions.
1
SPEAKER_01
They say to get in touch with the earth too, like when you re actually laying on the grass, when you re feeling the earth underneath you, it actually does something physiologically to you and emotionally too.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think the other thing too is, and this is a tricky one because it depends on what the tantrum s like and what they re trying to fit about, but give yourself permission to not have to fix it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes it s just like,
1
SPEAKER_01
let her get it all out.
1
SPEAKER_01
I feel like as parents, we always feel like we have to create a solution or provide a solution.
1
SPEAKER_01
And sometimes it s just like, let this just run its course and be a quiet, supportive presence next to her.
1
SPEAKER_01
And she ll remember that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Fiona, James and I are both parents, so that was some expert advice, I would say.
1
SPEAKER_00
Thanks for writing in and all of the best to you and your daughter.
1
SPEAKER_00
James, before I ask this last question, do you smoke weed?
1
SPEAKER_00
I promise it s relevant.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t.
1
SPEAKER_01
I ve never been much of a weed smoker, but what I have discovered recently is a specific strain of sativa or whatever it is that actually helps me sleep in the form of like a gummy.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t take any of it to like take my brain to places where I can write more interesting stuff or have more laughs in a conversation.
1
SPEAKER_01
The application for me is always to chill me out, turn the brain off and go to sleep.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s been great to not have to take anything else.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
So Sarah in D.C.
1
SPEAKER_00
writes, Hello Tig and guest.
1
SPEAKER_00
I am an almost 50 happily married lesbian mother of two.
1
SPEAKER_00
I work part time as a pediatrician and have a great village of friends.
1
SPEAKER_00
I consider myself medium fun.
1
SPEAKER_00
I have so far never tried marijuana and I m ready to do so.
1
SPEAKER_00
It is legal where I live.
1
SPEAKER_00
Could you suggest a perfect scenario for my first, maybe only, experience?
1
SPEAKER_00
I will do whatever you suggest.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, careful there.
1
SPEAKER_01
She will do whatever you suggest.
1
SPEAKER_00
This person feels like my speed.
1
SPEAKER_01
Medium fun.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, well, just like, okay, I don t do drugs.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m ready to try it.
1
SPEAKER_00
The robot is ready to let loose.
1
SPEAKER_00
Tell me what to take.
1
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t sound like you re ready.
1
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t sound like it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Sounds like you re already giving yourself, you re already walking into paranoia land.
1
SPEAKER_01
I get that feeling, though, because I guess she s like, I need to maybe loosen up a little bit.
1
SPEAKER_01
And got a village of friends.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s great.
1
SPEAKER_01
I wonder if they all smoke.
1
SPEAKER_00
Or even, you know, I m not a pot smoker, but my wife Stephanie and I went to Amsterdam and we wanted to have the typical go to Amsterdam and buy weed and get high.
1
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we,
1
SPEAKER_00
Neither of us are pot smokers, and we got our drugs, we went to our hotel room, we smoked it, and we turned into cartoon versions of high people.
1
SPEAKER_00
We were in so much pain laughing, we were crying so hard, we could barely breathe, and it was the most fun.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then we went back to Amsterdam a year later,
1
SPEAKER_00
We bought pot again, and we tried to recreate the moment, but we didn t know what strain we had purchased the first time.
1
SPEAKER_00
And the second one, we just were sitting out next to one of the canals, and we just turned to each other and said, I don t want to do this ever again.
1
SPEAKER_00
It was such a different experience from the first time, like truly gasping for air.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it was so fun.
1
SPEAKER_00
So I guess my suggestion would be if your spouse is interested or one of your medium fun friends in your village, I would say do it with somebody that is your silliest friend that s open to doing it.
1
SPEAKER_00
And Stephanie and I laugh very hard without any pot on a daily basis.
1
SPEAKER_00
We destroy each other.
1
SPEAKER_00
find the person that will destroy you and have a grand old time.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s what I suggest.
1
SPEAKER_01
Great advice.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes, I would say, if you re the medium fun person in your group, I would find the friend in your village that is the most giggly, the most easy to laugh, just positive, have a great time.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s so important, though, the sort of tone that you carry with you when you step into that world, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
You want someone with positivity and perpetually grinning to do that with.
1
SPEAKER_01
Maybe there s an old movie from the 80s or 90s or whatever that you guys share that you always thought was funny.
1
SPEAKER_01
Maybe put that on too.
1
SPEAKER_00
Go rent a hotel room or something and just watch a stupid movie.
1
SPEAKER_01
Get into costume.
1
SPEAKER_01
Put costumes on and then take it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Buy some junk food.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, get some Twinkies and Doritos.
1
SPEAKER_00
Go have the dumbest time you could possibly have.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, without any expectation.
1
SPEAKER_01
Don t put expectations on it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, I m supposed to be laughing, or I m supposed to be listening to this music, or I m supposed to be... Just, nothing matters.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s a free day.
1
SPEAKER_00
Even if you don t laugh that hard, you ll at least laugh at how you didn t get that high, and you re sitting in a hotel room with Twinkies and a bad movie on, and that ll make you laugh, probably.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it ll make you laugh.
1
SPEAKER_01
And go easy, maybe kind of baby steps into the dosage.
1
SPEAKER_01
I remember the first time I smoked, I was 21 or something, and the person that introduced me to it was my future wife.
1
SPEAKER_01
She was my wife at the time.
1
SPEAKER_01
But she was actually pretty good at it.
1
SPEAKER_01
She was like, OK, we re going to have a joint.
1
SPEAKER_01
And here, you smoke this.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m going to go to the bathroom.
1
SPEAKER_01
And when I come back, we re going to have some fun.
1
SPEAKER_01
And she went to the bathroom.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I took 10 hits off of this joint, thinking that you smoke it like a cigarette.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I was out of my mind.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so maybe take the baby steps of dosage.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I can t wait to hear how that turns out.
1
SPEAKER_00
Sarah, I m not sure why you asked me.
1
SPEAKER_00
But that s why this show is called Don t Ask Tig.
1
SPEAKER_00
Happy 420.
1
SPEAKER_00
James, you played an actual superhero, Cyclops, in the X-Men movies.
1
SPEAKER_00
So the last segment I ve selected especially for you is one I call Don t Ask Your Heroes.
1
SPEAKER_00
Everyone always says don t meet your heroes, but what about asking your heroes for advice?
1
SPEAKER_00
Don t ask your heroes is the part of the show where we imagine what your hero might have to say about a particular question that s on your mind.
1
SPEAKER_00
So James, you might have more than one, but if you had to name just one person, who would you say is your hero?
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I have a lot of different kinds of heroes.
1
SPEAKER_01
My ex-wife taught me a lot about how to be a good person in this world, and how to be a good father, and how to participate in a life in a really great way.
1
SPEAKER_01
And sometimes it can be in a very simple way.
1
SPEAKER_01
great for me.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I owe a lot of what I ve learned in life to her.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s nice.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
We started really young.
1
SPEAKER_01
And like I said, we re still very, very close.
1
SPEAKER_01
But um,
1
SPEAKER_01
Are there heroes?
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, there s like industry heroes, like people that you looked up to as far as their work and things like that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
1
SPEAKER_01
I always loved Paul Newman.
1
SPEAKER_01
He seemed like a guy who could do drama really brilliantly, but also had a sense of humor and could do comedy as well.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then he had a whole other life outside of this business.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
And he was very happily married and had his charity.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I don t know, I just always liked him.
1
SPEAKER_00
Did you know Paul?
1
SPEAKER_01
No, I had never met him.
1
SPEAKER_01
No.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, if you could ask him one advice-related question, what would you ask him?
1
SPEAKER_01
If I could ask Paul Newman an advice-related question.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m better at giving the advice.
2
SPEAKER_01
Boy, how do you cope with aging?
2
SPEAKER_01
What s your secret?
2
SPEAKER_01
I think he was famously known for sticking his head in a giant bucket of ice water every morning.
2
SPEAKER_04
Wow, it s getting popular with all the polar plunging that s going on.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I guess so, the cold plunge stuff.
2
SPEAKER_01
What is the most graceful way to accept getting older?
2
SPEAKER_04
What do you think he would say?
2
SPEAKER_01
I think he would say, just keep getting older for as long as you can.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t know what he d say.
2
SPEAKER_04
Stick your head in a bucket of ice water.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, stick your head in a bucket of ice water.
2
SPEAKER_01
Maybe don t take yourself so seriously.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s the advice I would give to somebody.
2
SPEAKER_01
Don t sweat the small stuff and it s all small stuff, that kind of thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
We just go through life worrying about everything.
2
SPEAKER_04
Well, that goes back to the, you know, go lie down at the beach and go lie in a pasture and go walk through the deep woods.
2
SPEAKER_01
Let Mother Nature coddle you and cradle you a bit.
2
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_04
Well, James, I couldn t agree more, first of all.
2
SPEAKER_04
And second of all, it was such a pleasure to have you on the show and to see you again.
2
SPEAKER_04
That s great.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s good to see you, too.
2
SPEAKER_01
That was so much fun.
2
SPEAKER_01
I can talk to you for another couple hours.
2
SPEAKER_04
I know, I was very lost in the episode, and I was surprised when it... It felt like we were just laying on the beach somewhere, didn t it?
2
SPEAKER_01
Felt like in a kind of meandering little meadow, staring up at blue skies.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m going to miss this.
2
SPEAKER_01
What am I going to do to calm myself again?
2
SPEAKER_01
I m going to actually... Take a walk.
2
SPEAKER_01
Take a little walk.
2
SPEAKER_04
Into the woods.
2
SPEAKER_04
Or maybe we could go lie down in a pasture in Oklahoma and listen to some Garth Brooks and just chill out.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was going to say, you know, what people do in the pastures of Oklahoma is they go find the old
2
SPEAKER_01
cow turds that have fossilized and they find little mushrooms growing out of those cow turds.
2
SPEAKER_01
And you take that mushroom, and I guess this is probably not something anything I should be condoning.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s probably illegal.
2
SPEAKER_01
But if you really want to turn up the volume on the color spectrum and all that while you re laying in the field,
2
SPEAKER_04
Isn t that crazy that that would be illegal to get mushrooms off of poop?
2
SPEAKER_04
Like how is that possibly written in a rule book somewhere?
2
SPEAKER_04
You re going to jail if you take mushrooms off of cow poop and put it in your mouth and then see crazy things.
2
SPEAKER_04
All right, so I don t think that s up to us to tell people to do it or not to do it.
2
SPEAKER_04
There s poop out there with mushrooms.
2
SPEAKER_01
We re gonna.
2
SPEAKER_01
We re gonna go lay a cow.
2
SPEAKER_04
We re going to listen to Baton Rouge.
2
SPEAKER_01
We re going to listen to Baton Rouge and we re going to experiment with some strains of... Poop shrooms.
2
SPEAKER_04
Like the good parents that we are.
2
SPEAKER_04
James, is there anything you would like to mention?
2
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Retract?
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Anything you d like to retract or add to before we head out of here?
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I think I ve added plenty.
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No, it s been lovely.
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It s so great seeing you and that was a fun chat and we d love to do it again.
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Love to have you and loved having you and hope to see you again soon.
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Walk of shame too.
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SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
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Walk of shame too.
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Bye.
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Bye.
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That s what you
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Don t Ask Tig is hosted by me, Tig Notaro.
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It s produced by Thomas Ouellette and Shana Deloria.
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Our executive producer and editor is Beth Perlman.
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Engineering and sound mixing by Alex Simpson, Derek Ramirez, Josh Savageau, and Evan Clark.
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Digital production by James Napoli.
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Talent booking by Marianne Ways.
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Our theme music is Friend in Tig by Edie Burkell and Kyle Crusham, and Listen to Your Heart by Edie Burkell.
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Special thanks to Hunter Seidman.
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APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Cavati, Alec Shaffert, and Joanne Griffith.
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Concept developed by Tracy Mumford.
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Our executive consultant is Dean Capello and Gobsmack Studios.
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You can always ask for advice at DontAskTig.org.
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Just write in with your problem or send us a voice memo.
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Remember to follow us on social media at DontAskTig.
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DontAskTig is a production of American Public Media.
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And as always, thanks Dana, and I ll tell Becky.
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Hi, I m stand-up comedian and sex symbol Tig Notaro.
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And I m actor and writer Cheryl Hines.
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Before Cheryl and I got into the big business of podcasting together, we were just simply friends.
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And we re still friends.
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But now we talk about a different documentary every week on our podcast, Tig and Cheryl, True Story.
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So whether you love documentaries or just want to hear us slowly lose our minds, check out Tig and Cheryl, True Story, wherever you get your podcasts.
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Alright, cool.