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My name is Lee Hawkins.
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I ve been a journalist for over 25 years.
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On my new podcast, What Happened in Alabama, I get answers to some of the hardest questions about how things came to be for many black Americans and the truth that must come before any reconciliation can happen.
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I investigate my family history, my upbringing in Minnesota, and my father s painful nightmares about growing up in Alabama.
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What Happened in Alabama is a new series confronting the cycles of trauma for myself, my family, and for many Black Americans.
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Listen now.
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Hey listeners, a few episodes ago I asked you to call in or write in and share your mantras, those miniature pieces of advice you give yourselves throughout the day.
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I got some thoughtful replies I want to pass along.
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Teresa wrote in, quote, when someone shows you who they are, believe them.
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Yes, I have heard that and I can definitely relate to that.
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Kim shared hers, quote, mine was picked up from watching Twin Peaks back in the 90s when Agent Cooper said to give yourself a present every day, even if it s just a slice of pie.
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The small gifts I give myself, such as a sweet treat or setting aside time to do a crossword puzzle, have really helped me through stressful times.
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I love it.
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That s great.
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I love the thought of having a piece of pie every day.
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Ann offered, quote, never underestimate the power of a brief encounter.
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That s such an interesting concept to hold in your mind as you go about your day.
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I mean, it could make you paranoid, but it s interesting to think about.
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Kim, Teresa, Ann, I love these words of wisdom.
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Thanks so much for writing in.
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And remember to buy your tickets to my Hello Again Tour at TigNotaro.com.
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New dates are being announced regularly, so go check out my website.
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All right, let s start the show.
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I ve known in recent years, in the past decade-ish, that I m claustrophobic, and I was just doing my last show of This Last Leg in Sacramento, and I got locked in and trapped in the bathroom of my hotel for 30 minutes.
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Oh, there were no windows.
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The door was two inches thick.
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And it was one of the most traumatic things in my entire life.
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And I went on stage that night.
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And as I was walking up the steps, just like just do your material.
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And as soon as I opened my mouth, I was like,
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I was just trapped in a bath like I just went into a whole like unplanned moment of like all this material and I was just cracking up because I was not planning on doing that.
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What was the solution?
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What happened?
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At one point the door slid open.
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Was it a pocket door?
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It was a pocket door.
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It had a hook lock that locked inside.
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Yeah.
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And that got stuck.
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But I love that you walked right onto stage.
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You re like, I m not going to do this, but I m going to do this.
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I had no intention of talking about it.
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And it came from being on stage saying, Sacramento, I am so happy to see you.
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And it was like hitting these real, authentic emotions in me.
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And they were just like such an energetic crowd.
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And then I was like, OK, I m going to tell these people.
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And I just went off.
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Yeah.
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And I was saying on stage, I didn t see this as being funny anytime soon.
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And I couldn t believe 30 minutes later, I was on stage doing this in front of a theater.
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It s the magic of standup.
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Yeah, I always like to think it s nice to have a good set with material that I ve done before and that I do really well and polished on stage.
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But I think the sweet spot is getting up there and doing what I ve seen you do.
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You just lean into that portal, whatever that topic is, that is unplanned.
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And I see you do that with audience members.
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And to move in that direction and not veer away from it, but to
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consciously go, OK, here I go.
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I m going to do this thing.
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And I have no idea what is going to come out of my mouth, but I m going to go there and see what happens, especially when you have an audience like that, when there s that kind of chemistry that you can do something so unplanned and there s so with you and that connectivity and authenticity and everybody is just laughing till they cry and you re crying.
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That s the sweet spot for me.
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That s why I love fandom.
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I feel lucky to have it.
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And I m still dealing with some PTSD.
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I m sure.
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But the stand up, it was a helpful moment for me.
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This is Don t Ask Tig.
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I m Tig Notaro, and I m seriously considering opening a baked goods store called Donut Ask Tig.
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My apologies to everyone.
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Joining me now is an actor, comedian, and writer known for his work on Will & Grace and the Golden Globe and Emmy Award winning series, Transparent.
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His standup special, Ian Harvey, May the Best Man Win, is available on Amazon Prime.
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Ian Harvey, it is so good to see you, and thank you for stopping by.
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Thanks, Tig.
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It s good to see you.
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I want to call you Barb.
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I know.
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We were both on Transparent.
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I mean, no scenes together, but I loved Barb.
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You were so good on that show.
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You know what?
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I m one of those people that has a super hard time watching myself.
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I don t know if you enjoy watching yourself, but I don t like watching myself.
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With acting?
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Yeah.
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I guess I can t even say I don t like it.
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It s more of that I m like, oh, look at you.
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Oh, how interesting.
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Look at me trying to act.
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It s funny because I remember I was doing this play in New York a couple of summers ago with Dolly Wells and Jesse Tyler Ferguson, Cindy Chung, and so many great people.
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And I hadn t done theater since the eighth grade.
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I was in The Hobbit in the eighth grade.
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Oh, congrats.
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Yeah, thank you.
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I had no idea.
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Yeah.
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I mean, it s not on my IMDb yet.
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But so I went to New York, did this play.
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And Jesse Tyler Ferguson, always, he s like the papa of the group and teased the crap out of us and me in particular.
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And one time I said, that scene we were doing last night, I was really feeling it.
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And I was really feeling like and I was describing what I was feeling.
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And he said, Oh, my God, you guys look at Ian.
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He s describing what it feels like to act.
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And I was just like, wait, oh, that s not what we re doing here?
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Oh, okay.
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Anyway, but watching myself now, I think I do something similar.
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Yeah.
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I kind of don t even feel like it s me.
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And I m not even that hard on myself.
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It s just more like, oh, God, that didn t feel good.
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But you ve described yourself as annoyingly positive.
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Well, I try to not say mean things to myself.
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I mean, I m critical, but I m not like, God, you re a terrible human being for that take or whatever.
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I m just like, there s enough people out in the world to say negative things.
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I don t need to join them kind of thing.
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So I just try to reframe what I m thinking about myself.
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And do you have any advice for people struggling with finding the positive in life?
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I don t know if I have advice, but you have to change your thinking.
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Whatever previous repetitive thinking that you have done and whatever narrative that you have told yourself on repeat, I think you really have to start with refusing to do that, and second, try to say something completely opposite even though you don t believe a word of it.
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until you start to sort of believe the word of it.
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I mean, people say, you know, fake it till you make it all the time.
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But to put that into practice is really just stopping what you re doing to yourself in that moment.
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I often think I would never say these things to another human being.
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Why do I give permission to myself to do it to myself?
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So just to, you know, say, I would never do that to a friend, be my best friend to myself.
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and stop doing that behavior, even if I can t get to the positive words yet.
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And then step two, try to say, you know, the positive stuff, even if it feels fake, even if it feels contrived and inaccurate at the moment.
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Yeah, you re blazing a new trail for yourself and your thoughts.
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And in that, like, I think you re also creating new brain patterns.
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Yeah.
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I ve gotten addicted to positivity.
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And sometimes I have to reel that in because there s times when positivity is not needed.
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Yeah, it s like read the room, Ian.
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Come on, Ian, take it down a notch.
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Yeah, yeah, for sure.
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I remember one of the things I loved about Stephanie when we got together, and I couldn t put my finger on it, and then I realized, I said, you don t ever say anything bad about yourself.
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And she said, yeah, I never would.
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And she said, that doesn t mean there s not room for self-improvement, but I would never speak poorly about myself.
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And I was like, oh, that s why I m attracted to you, you know?
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It s such an attractive quality.
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Now, some people are attracted to those kinds of people because they want some of that to rub off on them.
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And some people want to be near that quality because they possess it as well.
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Do you feel like it s one or the other of those?
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I don t feel like I speak poorly about myself.
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I certainly will make jokes about myself and that kind of thing, but I m not like, you re stupid, you re ugly, you re terrible, you re the worst at this, you ll never be able to do that.
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You know, I m not at all that person.
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I have hope and confidence in myself and that s probably
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true what you re saying.
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Like it s a similar quality, I guess, that I have.
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Yeah.
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I ve been with people where they wanted it from me, but they also didn t really want to receive it or wanted some of it to sort of rub off on them.
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I ve been in relationships with people like that and it just didn t work out because it was attractive to them, but they didn t really want it in their life.
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And so, and it, I think ultimately ended on that or because of that.
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Yeah.
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I had an old girlfriend.
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So I m originally from Maine.
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And she used to say this old girlfriend of mine used to say, I can t believe it.
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You could fall into a bucket of crap and come out with a new sweater.
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She s like, I just don t get it.
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It annoys the crap out of me.
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And I m like, yeah, I m sorry.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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That s the point where you say scram clown.
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Yeah.
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You know, they re not into it.
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I like an opportunity to say scram.
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Yeah.
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Oh, I wedged it in anytime I can.
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Anytime I can.
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I see you re drinking your water.
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I know you re, you re a sober comedian.
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I am.
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Yeah.
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29 years.
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29 years today.
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Thanksgiving was my 29 years.
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Okay.
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So the night before Thanksgiving, 29 years ago, I got hammered.
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And that was just life changing for you.
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Well, I started drinking when I was super young.
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And it became kind of a regular thing in high school.
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And then by the time I turned 21, I was just exhausted from it.
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It takes whatever it takes for people to quit.
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And for me, it took hurting somebody s feelings really bad.
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I m a very sensitive soul.
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And so when I hurt this person s feelings, I was devastated by it.
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And I want to say on the third day of that hangover,
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which was probably alcohol poisoning.
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I mean, three days of a hangover I think is just, you ve made yourself pretty darn sick with booze if it s lasted that long.
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So someone called me, this friend of mine who I really adored and said, hey, I m headed to a 12-step meeting, you want to go?
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I was like, yes.
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And that was it for me.
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When I got there, everybody in there, it just, the stories people told, it just all resonated with me.
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I m like, this is me.
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Like, I m so much like you.
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And I really like the collective effort of a group trying to achieve something together, whether that s an ensemble cast and a play, or, you know, whether it s a group of people trying to stay sober, I m really obsessed with ensembles.
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You know, community, really.
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So I just felt at home there.
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And it was also so long ago that it was a giant open room in Portland, Maine, and it was one side of the room was smoking and the other side was non-smoking.
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And the entire room was just filled with smoke.
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I was going to say, I bet the non-smoking side of the room couldn t even smell any of that cigarette smoke on the other side.
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No.
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Yeah, I m not sober, but I m certainly not the biggest drinker you ll find.
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It s a rare day or evening that I ll have a drink.
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Yeah.
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And you know what?
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And as an alcoholic, I still watch for like who s drinking, who s not, how many you had.
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If you had had a drink in my presence, I could tell you how many you had.
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And you know what?
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If I did choose to have a drink, I would never do it and walk on stage.
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Never.
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It s like I ve seen alcohol like ruins so many people, so many
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get-togethers, it s just like, oh man, reel it in.
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Why does it have to get to this place?
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I mean, I feel for people, obviously, but yeah, it s just not for me, and I just find moderation or sobriety way more attractive.
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Yeah.
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I have a friend who he and I are both sober.
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He said, look, someone asked me if I wasn t an alcoholic, would I still drink?
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He said, yeah, every freaking day.
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I feel the same.
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I know through and through, I ve tested it.
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I know that it s in me chemically, genetically, however you want to describe it.
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I learned how to do stand-up without it, which I m so grateful for.
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And this is just from conversations with dozens and dozens of other comics that start with it and don t know how to do it without it.
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And I had this friend say, you know what?
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If you start without it, you can always add it later.
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But if you start with it, then you think you need it in order to step onto the stage.
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A lot of people do.
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Right.
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That s a good point because I ve seen plenty of comedians get sober and then be really scared of the stage after that.
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Yeah.
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Anyway, Ian, are you ready to answer some advice questions?
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Yeah, I would love to.
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Our first question concerns a kindergartner s finances.
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Samantha writes, my five-year-old wants to earn money to buy toys for a pet fish.
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We re brainstorming chores she can do that she will be good at and that will actually be helpful to our family.
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Any suggestions?
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What I like is that they want to give them chores that are easy that they can do.
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I m like, why not give them hard chores?
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I mean, why not make it a little bit more difficult?
0
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Why not give them super impossible chores that they will never eat?
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Such as?
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They have to remodel the bathroom and retile the floor.
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I mean, make it super functional.
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And this is all to buy a $2.99 toy.
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We have some tile in the garage.
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There s some grout and some mortar out there.
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And I m sure you know what grout and mortar is.
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Here s a YouTube video.
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Give us a ring when you re done.
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Do you have plans to have children, Ian?
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With our children, we have five and a half year olds.
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And since they started talking, I made a decision to teach them not the typical word for something, because I think it s so cute to hear brewski come out of their mouth, you know, like, Oh, go get Rick wants a brewski.
0
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And then to see a three-year-old or two-and-a-half-year-old bring it over and say, Beruski.
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Absolutely.
0
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It s just to amuse yourself is basically.
0
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Yeah.
0
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It s definitely along those lines.
0
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Just talking to them as if they were little adults and assuming that they know what you re talking about and seeing what happens.
0
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I don t know.
0
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I just like that kind of baffling kids.
0
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At our house, Max and Finn do chores.
0
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And at the end of the week, they get a dollar and their chores are, they have to turn their nightlight off in the morning and they have to feed the cat and they have to pick up their toys.
0
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We go pretty easy on them.
0
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Like they ve never remodeled any part of our house.
0
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And I ll be honest, a lot of times they don t even have to save their money for
0
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things like fish toys, we ll just buy it for them.
0
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And they just collect the cash and we end up losing a lot of money on this decision to have children.
0
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Well, you just named like three great things for this person to do with their five-year-old, you know, turn off your nightlight, feed the cats and pick up your toy.
0
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put your pajamas on your bed for the next night.
0
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But yeah, I mean, why are we even asking Ian?
0
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Ian has no children and no plans to have a child.
0
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So Samantha, there you have it.
0
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Maybe check in on your state s child labor laws before taking any advice from Ian Harvey.
0
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Yeah, that s for sure.
0
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Yeah.
0
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All right.
0
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It s time for a break, but we ll be right back with more listener questions.
0
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I m Ben Nadafafri.
1
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host of the history show The Last Archive, and I want to tell you about a new series we re running in our feed.
1
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It s called The Deadline.
1
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Six essays written and read by Jill Lepore, the New Yorker writer, American historian, and founding host of our show.
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These are incredible essays on everything from the history of cryogenics to the Silicon Valley gospel of disruption.
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And at the end of each essay, I interview Jill about her craft as a writer.
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You can listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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We re back.
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Ian, this next one comes from a listener named Mandy.
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Okay.
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Mandy writes, hi Tig, my question comes out of my recent wave of procrastination with buying wedding gifts.
1
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I had two close friends get married two years ago and one close friend got married last year.
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It started because I wanted to buy the perfect personal
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gift or make something since I was in the wedding party in two of those weddings.
1
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Then I spiraled and did the same for the wedding last year.
1
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At this point, it s been so long.
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Am I terrible if I just give money? 
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Gosh, how dare you give money?
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Yeah, everybody hates
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money.
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Yeah.
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The last thing anybody wants is a sack of cash in their hands.
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Right?
1
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I mean, I, I can t even imagine getting married and having an issue with somebody not getting me anything or giving me a sack of cash.
1
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It s just, I don t know.
1
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I mean, I think it s a big ask to have someone in your wedding and then to
1
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give them a gift and you know with having to buy a dress or rent a suit or buy a suit or whatever those all those expenses are go away stay in a place a lot of times that taking out a bunch of time out of your life so i think that
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you know, when it comes to the gifts, like, don t be so hard on yourself.
1
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You know, and also, like you said, people love money.
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They want everybody would love a cartoon bag of cash, you know, not that that s going to give us chances.
1
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Are they re getting married just to get money?
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OK, that s the reality.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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That s why I got married for sacks of cash.
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Truly, and for the personal gifts that everybody made by hand.
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That was also what was so important to me.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think it s really sweet that they wanted to do something original and thoughtful and, you know, whatever kind of handmade or gesture, as long as you put whatever you put a note and say, Look, I might be a fool for waiting two years to do this, but it s been on my mind for that long.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I really adore you.
1
SPEAKER_01
And
1
SPEAKER_01
I m sorry, it s taken this long, but here s what I came up with, whatever that is.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think that that sack of cash, even that is, I don t know, I just think it s sweet.
1
SPEAKER_01
The note that is with it.
1
SPEAKER_01
I like the notes just as much as I like whatever the gift is, you know.
1
SPEAKER_02
You like a handwritten note equally as much as you like a stack of cash in?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I do.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, look, I mean, no one s actually giving a sack of cash unless you re- Oh, well.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, you get a hundred bucks here and there.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s our thing.
1
SPEAKER_02
No, you invite me to your wedding, you re getting a sack of cash, buddy.
1
SPEAKER_01
All right.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, I ll make sure that invite is in the mail.
1
SPEAKER_01
I just think that the note part of it, I m a sap.
1
SPEAKER_01
I actually really like writing the notes and putting something in there that I ve thought about them as a couple.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s not a letter or a podcast or a long thing, but just something that makes me think of them.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s not what I should do.
1
SPEAKER_01
Is that what you re saying?
1
SPEAKER_02
Well, I just don t like this sitting down writing notes.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think it s so nice.
1
SPEAKER_02
But for me to sit down and write a note and tell people how I feel about them, I just am like, look, read between the lines.
1
SPEAKER_02
Here is a sack of cash.
1
SPEAKER_02
I there s no way I m going to give this to somebody I hate or don t care about.
1
SPEAKER_02
Sack of cash, sack of cash.
1
SPEAKER_02
Also, it seems like being in the wedding is a huge nice thing that you re doing for the person that s getting married.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s a lot.
1
SPEAKER_01
Listen, I remember I ve been in a few weddings.
1
SPEAKER_01
The last one that I was in was in San Diego before I transitioned and I had to buy a dress that was very expensive.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I didn t want to wear a dress and my friend didn t want to make me wear a dress, but her mom really wanted me to wear a dress.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I wore a dress.
1
SPEAKER_02
What are people s hang ups?
1
SPEAKER_02
Like, oh, my gosh, I have to see you in a dress.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s a thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I think, you know, her mom had a vision for her daughter s wedding and she didn t want
1
SPEAKER_01
one oddball, you know, ruining that.
1
SPEAKER_02
But it s her daughter s wedding.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I, you know, I didn t mind doing it for my friend.
1
SPEAKER_01
I really felt like it s kind of like, well, I love my friend and I m going to be a clown today and drag, which is what I felt like.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I just like, I ll do this for my friend.
1
SPEAKER_01
And we danced together, she and I, her and her wedding dress and me and my dress, like a couple s dance at her wedding, which was really fun.
1
SPEAKER_01
So, yeah, I think it s a lot of work for anybody to be part of somebody s wedding.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I think that s also kind of part of the gift, aside from the bag of cash.
1
SPEAKER_02
Especially if it s a destination wedding, people are paying money to get out there.
1
SPEAKER_01
I flew from Maine to San Diego to be in that wedding, bought a dress, stayed in a hotel for four days.
1
SPEAKER_02
You re a good friend.
1
SPEAKER_02
You re a good friend.
1
SPEAKER_01
It was a lot.
1
SPEAKER_01
It was a lot.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
It feels like your presence, your physical presence at a wedding and being involved and the money that you spend to be in the whole ceremony, that s a lot.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s a big gift.
1
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
1
SPEAKER_02
Truly.
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, it s like, you know, I don t even remember when I got them.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think it was cash.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think I put maybe a hundred bucks in like a envelope and was in a sack.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
Was it all ones or was it all coins?
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh my gosh.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s the best gift is rolls of quarters, not even rolls, just loose change in a sack.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think cash is great.
1
SPEAKER_01
And no matter how prompt you are with it or how far after the wedding is, people are going to be like a surprise amount of money is going to be amazing.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, who wouldn t like go to their door, get the mail and like see an envelope or whether it s in person or whatever and be like, listen, I love you.
1
SPEAKER_01
Sorry it s been so long.
1
SPEAKER_01
And you open it and there s a lot of cash in there.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like you re like, absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_01
This is great.
1
SPEAKER_02
If your married friends ditch you because you didn t appropriately gift them for the unions, then so be it.
1
SPEAKER_02
But it doesn t sound like that s going to be the case.
1
SPEAKER_02
So Mandy, better late than never.
1
SPEAKER_02
Never is fine too.
1
SPEAKER_02
This next one comes from Jen.
1
SPEAKER_02
Jen writes, Hi Tig, I struggle with body image and I m looking for tips slash advice on how to appreciate my body.
1
SPEAKER_02
How can I better embrace my shape and love my body just the way it is?
1
SPEAKER_02
Help your number one fan, Jen.
1
SPEAKER_02
Wow.
1
SPEAKER_02
Um,
1
SPEAKER_02
It s so nice to finally meet my number one fan.
1
SPEAKER_01
Did you not know that she was?
1
SPEAKER_02
I didn t.
1
SPEAKER_02
I didn t.
1
SPEAKER_02
I knew that I knew she was out there.
1
SPEAKER_02
I assumed, um, because I ve met the number five and six fans.
1
SPEAKER_02
Um, so I can only assume that there were some higher rankings out there, but hello, Jen.
1
SPEAKER_02
Um, uh, what, what are your feelings about body image?
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, you mentioned earlier that you transitioned.
1
SPEAKER_02
what is your feeling about your body before or now?
1
SPEAKER_01
It s funny, I don t think that what Jen is going through and what I ve
1
SPEAKER_01
been through and sometimes still go through and even what you ve been through surgically, you know, having double mastectomy, I think we all have something, you know, something kind of similar in, you know, we are thinking about our bodies in a way and that a lot of other people
1
SPEAKER_01
do as well.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think that there s a few people who don t.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think those people are generally men.
1
SPEAKER_01
I do.
1
SPEAKER_01
I do.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like I said to my buddy, I was my buddy, Dan, who s a comic.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was like, God, like, well, what do I do if like I get a gut and like, you know, I, you know, am not taking care of myself and I get it because you re not going to care.
1
SPEAKER_01
You re going to be a dude and you re just not going to care.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, no, but I do care.
1
SPEAKER_02
But you do care.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
But, you know, I do think that most people have discomfort with their body.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think that is what unifies us and that nobody feels 100 percent OK about their bodies.
1
SPEAKER_01
And if they do, then they re the weirdo.
1
SPEAKER_01
They re the not the norm.
1
SPEAKER_01
The norm is that this is a struggle that most everybody can walk by a mirror and go, what the you know, at some point.
1
SPEAKER_02
Please watch your language, Ian.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I think admitting any sort of struggle is healthy.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think it s very helpful.
1
SPEAKER_02
I know, as you mentioned, my double mastectomy.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m sorry, I didn t mean to, if people weren t aware.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, word is not out yet that I had cancer or had a double mastectomy.
1
SPEAKER_02
I m so sorry, I thought people knew.
1
SPEAKER_02
doing comedy topless.
1
SPEAKER_02
But I think it was when I was faced with the fact that I had to have a double mastectomy that I really got in touch with how I felt about my body on a deeper level and I didn t want
1
SPEAKER_02
In that moment, I didn t want surgery.
1
SPEAKER_02
I didn t.
1
SPEAKER_02
You know, I ve talked about this before where people contacted me saying, hey, congrats on the free top surgery.
1
SPEAKER_02
And and I was just like, that s so bizarre to assume that it was what I wanted or that it was that casual for me, because I was actually devastated to have anything done.
1
SPEAKER_02
And then
1
SPEAKER_02
Soon after i was actually not only fine with it but i was like oh my gosh i feel like i m ten years old again you know just with this completely flat chest and.
1
SPEAKER_02
It was a whole up and down roundabout experience that i went through where it was a struggle.
1
SPEAKER_01
But you didn t really have a choice.
1
SPEAKER_01
It was presented to you kind of like as a medical necessity, in which I do think that trans and non-binary and gender non-conforming folks who need surgery to feel better in their bodies, it is a medical necessity for them as well.
1
SPEAKER_01
But this wasn t something that you were seeking.
1
SPEAKER_01
This was something that was, you know, put to you in a different way.
1
SPEAKER_01
And that s
1
SPEAKER_01
Definitely different.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I do think that one of the things that I ve found that really helps is naming it, saying it out loud, admitting it, because I do think it takes some of the air out of it to say it out loud, because usually it s just festering inside of us.
1
SPEAKER_01
And to be able to take some of the wind out of that and find relief and comfort in knowing others who are feeling similar back to that community and ensemble.
1
SPEAKER_01
you know, thing that I love.
1
SPEAKER_01
The moment that I realized that I was not the only one that felt this way, I felt so much better.
1
SPEAKER_01
And that was a massive relief.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I think that s probably in the beginnings of feeling better.
1
SPEAKER_01
But then also back to that language of not letting yourself be mean to yourself, being a friend to yourself, thinking about, you know, all those things that I would never say to another human being or another friend.
1
SPEAKER_01
Why am I allowing myself to say them to myself?
1
SPEAKER_01
And that whatever your shape is, like, find new language for it.
1
SPEAKER_01
I know that there are fat phobes out there.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I m not even assuming that this person is whatever, but they don t like their shape.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know, I call people who are differently shaped people of shape.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know, there s people of color, there s, you know, gender nonconforming people.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I m just trying to find new language that doesn t sound historically
1
SPEAKER_01
bad or negative to my ears and like, what can I, how can I reframe this in a way that is more loving.
1
SPEAKER_01
And also, I have to tell you, you know what, it is a really hard step, but also acceptance and like maybe
1
SPEAKER_01
figuring out what the steps are to acceptance of where you re at.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m a guy who I look in the mirror and I see scars on my chest and I now think, well, that s my body.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s what this guy s body looks like.
1
SPEAKER_01
There are as many different bodies as there are human beings.
1
SPEAKER_01
The whole norm or what is supposed to be is just an absolute crock of shit.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s all very great and helpful and true.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I think also you talked about community and realizing that you re not alone and all genders go through this and experience it.
1
SPEAKER_02
I also think it s probably helpful to talk to somebody about it, a therapist, and figure out maybe what triggers you might have.
1
SPEAKER_02
Is it mirrors or
1
SPEAKER_02
seeing ads of people and just making sure to not surround yourself with those triggers, especially when you re going through a process of feeling good about yourself.
1
SPEAKER_02
Not that you can avoid mirrors and ads for the rest of your life, but just to kind of get in check and touch base with yourself.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think counseling is really
1
SPEAKER_02
always a good thing to do, whether it s online or in person.
1
SPEAKER_01
I love talk therapy.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s saved me so many times on so many topics, and I m just such a huge fan of it.
1
SPEAKER_01
I agree with you.
1
SPEAKER_02
One of the things that I like to say when people are hard on themselves, I always say, hey, don t talk about my friend like that.
1
SPEAKER_02
When they re the one that says it about themselves.
1
SPEAKER_02
And it s something also that you can try and apply to yourself if you re alone and talking about yourself like that, to just be like, hey, why am I talking about my friend like this?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I love that.
1
SPEAKER_01
Just like a little tap on the shoulder to stop and reframe.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, oh, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, it s so sweet and simple.
1
SPEAKER_01
I do like that.
1
SPEAKER_02
Jen?
1
SPEAKER_01
Number one fan.
1
SPEAKER_02
Number one fan.
1
SPEAKER_02
I hope that something or all things that we said were helpful to you.
1
SPEAKER_02
And please, please don t drop in the rankings of
1
SPEAKER_02
loving me.
1
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_02
Ian, we ve got one last thing to do together before I let you go.
1
SPEAKER_01
All right.
1
SPEAKER_02
Everyone wishes they had the perfect response at the ready for certain social interactions.
1
SPEAKER_02
Come back to me later is a segment where we make that wish come true.
1
SPEAKER_02
Come back to me later.
1
SPEAKER_02
This is Come Back to Me Later, where we help a listener come up with the perfect response.
1
SPEAKER_02
Jaden writes, Hi Tig, I just started a new job at a health-based grocery store.
1
SPEAKER_02
I m transgender and I use she and they pronouns, which are on my name tag.
1
SPEAKER_02
However, some coworkers still misgender me.
1
SPEAKER_02
What are some good responses for when this happens?
1
SPEAKER_02
I have a sense of humor, so I ve been trying to think of the funniest response I can.
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, in my special Happy to be Here, I talk about how when I go up to a counter and somebody says,
1
SPEAKER_02
How can I help you, sir?
1
SPEAKER_02
I ll respond and just, you know, say it s a guy that said it.
1
SPEAKER_02
I ll say, I ll just have this pack of gum, ma am.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s so funny.
1
SPEAKER_01
I love that.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I ve done that.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think that that s a perfect response because they did it.
1
SPEAKER_02
Why can t you?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Just give it back to them.
1
SPEAKER_02
And not that it s like trying to fight with people, but it s just and they weren t doing it to fight with you They just misgendered and and then I don t make a big deal out of it.
1
SPEAKER_02
I just say Oh, um, i ll have this ma am and then they re like, oh I don t know, but I also enjoy awkwardness.
1
SPEAKER_02
So
1
SPEAKER_01
You do.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I also think that if you add a giant grin to it while you say it, it s just going to go down really easily.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think if you say things with a smile like that, it s just, it s a beautiful thing.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think that it s really important to consider people s intentions because oftentimes there is misgendering, but there is good intentions.
1
SPEAKER_02
in not just gender issues, but just in life.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think it s really crucial to have good intentions and to consider people s intentions when they
2
SPEAKER_00
Have a misstep or mishap.
2
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think I m a pretty good read of people up front I know that most people are sort of operating from a place of default.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and I think when someone misgendered me it s from a place of habit and not a place of they automatically whatever my sort of presentation looks like they just even if it s
2
SPEAKER_01
ambiguous.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think that people just fall into whatever they think is closest visually.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t think that people are in the habit yet and don t have mal intent.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think they just don t know.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I actually
2
SPEAKER_01
I m still waiting for everybody to know and not everybody s going to know.
2
SPEAKER_01
I just have ultimate forgiveness for people that do not have ill intentions with it.
2
SPEAKER_01
To read that very quickly and do it with a smile back and do what you say, I think is a fantastic.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ll tell you, I think that it works way better than wagging your finger at somebody.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think, you know, if you make it into a joke, which Jaden was talking about doing, like, I d like to do it with a sense of humor.
2
SPEAKER_01
That, I think, is a really great way to access people rather than slapping their hand and, I think, making a joke out of it and doing the same thing back is hilarious, especially with a big grin.
2
SPEAKER_00
I hope that helps, Jayden and Ian.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s the end of the show.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh my goodness.
2
SPEAKER_00
I know.
2
SPEAKER_01
What a fun time.
2
SPEAKER_00
I know, it flew by.
2
SPEAKER_00
Thanks so much for being here and for helping my listeners.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, well, it s helped me too.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I m going to go and practice some of these things that we ve discussed that I m imperfect about.
2
SPEAKER_00
Good.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m going to be nice to myself and I m going to say to others, you know, hey, that s my friend you re talking about.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
I thank you for having me.
2
SPEAKER_00
Is there anything that you want to share with the listeners?
2
SPEAKER_01
Since the beginning of the pandemic, I ve really gotten into woodworking.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I built the world s largest catio for our friend Margaret.
2
SPEAKER_00
Margaret Cho.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I started an Instagram of the little projects that I do.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, that s awesome.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s called Official Trandyman.
2
SPEAKER_00
Love it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And are you pretty trandy?
2
SPEAKER_01
I m super trendy.
2
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, you look very trendy.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m super trendy.
2
SPEAKER_01
And you ll see on my Instagram, all the things that all different things that I built.
2
SPEAKER_01
So you can check that out.
2
SPEAKER_00
I can t wait to check it out.
2
SPEAKER_00
It was a real pleasure talking to you and seeing you again.
2
SPEAKER_00
I haven t seen you since you were at my old office.
2
SPEAKER_00
I know.
2
SPEAKER_00
We were shooting a TV show that didn t get aired.
2
SPEAKER_01
I know.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I love seeing you.
2
SPEAKER_00
I will hopefully see you sooner than later.
2
SPEAKER_00
And thank you again for being on the show.
2
SPEAKER_01
Thank you, Tig.
2
SPEAKER_00
Bye, Ian.
2
SPEAKER_01
Bye.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I m currently on the road for my Hello Again tour.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you want to see me in person, go to TigNotaro.com for all of my tour dates.
2
SPEAKER_03
Oh, my sweet child, there s so much I want you to know.
2
SPEAKER_03
Oh, my sweet child, there s so much I want you to know.
2
SPEAKER_00
Don t Ask Tig is hosted by me, Tig Notaro.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s produced by Thomas Ouellette, Shana Deloria, and Ryan Lohr.
2
SPEAKER_00
Our executive producer and editor is Beth Perlman.
2
SPEAKER_00
Engineering and sound mixing by Johnny Vince Evans and Eric Romani.
2
SPEAKER_00
Digital production by James Napoli.
2
SPEAKER_00
Talent booking by Marianne Ways.
2
SPEAKER_00
Production support from Pizza Shark.
2
SPEAKER_00
Our theme music is Friend and Tig by Edie Burkell and Kyle Krusham, and Listen to Your Heart by Edie Burkell.
2
SPEAKER_00
Special thanks to Hunter Seidman.
2
SPEAKER_00
APM Studios executives in charge are Lily Kim, Alex Shaffert, and Joanne Griffith.
2
SPEAKER_00
Concept developed by Tracy Mumford.
2
SPEAKER_00
Our executive consultant is Dean Capello and Gobsmack Studios.
2
SPEAKER_00
You can always ask for advice at DontAskTig.org.
2
SPEAKER_00
Just write in with your problem or send us a voice memo.
2
SPEAKER_00
Remember to follow us on social media at DontAskTig.
2
SPEAKER_00
DontAskTig is a production of American Public Media.
2
SPEAKER_00
And as always, thanks, Dana, and I ll tell Becky.
2
SPEAKER_02
I m Christina Cotarucci, and this season on Slow Burn.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s called Proposition 6.
2
SPEAKER_02
The Briggs Initiative.
2
SPEAKER_02
John Briggs is going to fire every gay and lesbian school teacher in California.
2
SPEAKER_02
With so much at stake, young people became activists.
2
SPEAKER_02
We can t let this happen in California.
2
SPEAKER_02
And activists became leaders.
2
SPEAKER_03
My name is Harvey Milker, and I m here to include you.
2
SPEAKER_02
Slow Burn, Season 9.
2
SPEAKER_02
Gays Against Briggs.
2
SPEAKER_02
Out now, wherever you listen.