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 This is episode number 1,217 with Dan Millman.
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Welcome to the School of Greatness.
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My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur.
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And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness.
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Thanks for spending some time with me today.
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Now let the class begin.
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 Welcome back, my friend.
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Today's guest is Dan Millman.
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He is a former world champion athlete, university coach, martial arts instructor, and college professor.
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And after an intense 20 year spiritual quest, Dan's teachings found its form as the peaceful warriors way.
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And he's written 18 books, including the bestseller way of the peaceful warrior, which is one of my favorites, which had a big impact on my life when I read it many years ago.
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 And he's back with a new memoir called Peaceful Heart, Warrior Spirit, the true story of my spiritual quest, which is all about Dan's search for meaning in a modern world.
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And that's something I believe each and every one of us can relate to.
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It's a book that I loved going through and I loved this interview.
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So much wisdom.
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 from what Dan has to share.
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In this episode, we discuss the interesting approach to overcoming the fear of other people's opinions.
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And I think everyone should try this approach.
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It's something new that I hadn't heard that I really loved that I want to try myself.
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How Dan's definition of a purposeful life has become clearer over 75 years and what gets in the way for most of us for living a meaningful life.
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How to reshape your negative beliefs and build up your self-worth, which I know holds a lot of people back these days.
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 how to develop what Dan calls a peaceful heart and a warrior spirit.
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That and so much more.
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I was so inspired.
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Again, I really love this message.
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I hope you're getting a lot out of these interviews.
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Every week we try to bring you the most inspirational, inspiring guests we can find.
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 And if you're enjoying this at any moment, and you can think of a friend or two, or you want to post this on social media, then please share this message out there.
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You can post it over on Instagram stories and tag the link wherever you're listening to this episode.
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You can post it on, you know, your WhatsApp group chats on Facebook, wherever you want to post it, get this message out there to someone that you think would be inspired by this as well.
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 And I want to give a shout out to the fan of the week, Moe.
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And Moe said, what I look for the most in a podcast is being able to take something away from any episode that I can actually apply to my life.
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And this happens every time with the School of Greatness.
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It's so informative, thought-provoking, and always inspiring.
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So a big shout out to Moe for being a fan of the week, leaving a review over on Apple Podcasts.
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Thank you so much for your reviews.
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And if you want a chance to be shouted out, then make sure to leave a review of what you thought about this episode today.
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 And make sure to subscribe as well over on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or as well over on YouTube, as we're about to cross 2 million subscribers over there.
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Okay, in just a moment, the one and only Dan Millman.
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 Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness.
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I am very excited about our guest.
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Dan Millman is in the house.
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Thanks so much for being here, Dan.
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You bet, Louis.
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It's always a pleasure.
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 I'm excited because, uh, we've, you've been on a couple of times now and, um, I've been a fan of you personally.
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I've been a fan of your message and your work.
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Um, you know, your, your books have been very impactful way of the peaceful warrior was, uh, uh, so inspiring for me.
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And you've got a new book out called peaceful heart warrior spirits.
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And there is a saying out there, I may butcher the saying, but it, it's a saying that says it's better to be.
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 a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.
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And I'm curious, does that resonate with you in any way about having a peaceful heart and a warrior spirit?
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And what does that really mean?
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Is it connected to that in any way?
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Well, I like that saying.
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It has a nice resonance and balance.
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And yes, I love to have the opportunity to explain what I mean.
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 You know, way back when, when I was a young college professor in Oberlin, Ohio, I taught a martial arts course, basically Aikido and Tai Chi, and they're both internal arts.
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I was going to call the course The Way of the Warrior, which makes sense, but it didn't quite fit because they're internal martial arts, they're not really aggressive arts.
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 Then a light bulb went on and I said, hey, why don't I call it the Way of the Peaceful Warrior to add some balance.
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But it wasn't until years later that I wrote a book and decided to use that term as the
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 the title.
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But people ask me, what do you mean peaceful warrior?
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And so over time it evolved and I got more insights and it's like we're all peaceful warriors in training.
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Whether one would label themselves such or not, I view everyone that way because everyone I know is seeking to live with a more peaceful heart,
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 A sense of serenity, equanimity, balance in the chaos and changes of the world, since change comes at us in waves that we can't control or predict, as many of us have learned recently, but we can learn to surf those waves.
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And so that's the idea of a peaceful heart.
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 And there are times in our lives, not just athletes like you and me, former athletes, but there are times anyone needs a warrior's spirit.
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And it's not about fighting.
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It's not about a battle, except maybe the internal demons of fear, insecurity, self-doubt, those kinds of things.
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But really it's about rolling up our sleeves, standing up tall inside of ourselves and marching into everyday life and doing what we need to do.
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 with that kind of spirit.
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So that's why I view everyone as a peaceful warrior in training.
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You mentioned these kind of inner demons that we all face.
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What do you think is the strongest demon that each one of us needs to learn how to overcome?
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 Probably some form of fear, including self-doubt, that can be a big one.
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You know, Customato, the boxing coach, once said, heroes and cowards feel exactly the same fear.
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They just respond differently.
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And so the focus of my work recently, after working with the four primary mentors in my life over a 20-year period that I describe in the new book,
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 What I've come to is that we have less control over our thoughts that just appear in our mind, in our awareness, and less control over the emotions we happen to be feeling in any given moment.
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We can't just change them by willing them to change instantly.
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We don't have a spam filter in our head to stop certain thoughts.
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So rather than focus on what we have less control over,
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 I believe in focusing on what we have more control over, which is our behavior, what we actually do.
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And so that's become an emphasis in my work of late, and it really does simplify life.
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Barbara Rasp, the writer, once said, the lesson is simple, the student is complicated.
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 And that's true of all of us.
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We complicate everything.
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And so I'm striving for simplicity, directness, clarity by life skills, spiritual life skills we didn't learn in school necessarily.
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And so that's what I've gained, that kind of insight after working with these mentors over, as I said, several decades.
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 Mentors teach you about overcoming fear and self-doubt, or what did you discover within your own lessons and own failures and learnings on how to overcome failure and self-doubt so that it doesn't consume you or control you?
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Early on in the memoir, in the new book, early on, I go into my foundations as a young risk taker who was almost left the planet when I was still in diapers, running after a bouncing ball in the street till my dad grabbed me.
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 But I had a role model named Steve Yusoff when I was about five or six years old.
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He was seven or eight.
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He was streetwise, you know.
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And he and his friends, I'd followed them around.
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And he and his friends found a home under construction in our neighborhood, and they climbed to the roof naturally, and there was a huge sand pile below.
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 I climbed up with him.
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I managed to get up there.
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And Steve jumped off and sunk up to his knees in the sand pile and his friends followed.
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And then they said, come on, Danny.
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And so I went to the edge.
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And I wanted to so badly.
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I wanted to jump.
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But I was so afraid.
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I stepped back.
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Then I stepped forward again and stepped back.
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And he finally yelled something I never forgot.
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He said, Danny, stop thinking and jump.
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 And a light bulb went on.
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It was like, I could do that.
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I just stopped my thinking about it and bent my knees and pushed and jumped.
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And that became like a master metaphor.
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It became a meme kind of in my life.
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Stop thinking and jump.
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And I trained my gymnast to do that when I was coaching in Stanford University.
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When I knew they were prepared to do something, but there was still the fear.
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 What if we don't feel prepared to do something?
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Right.
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Now that's different.
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There's a saying that fear is a wonderful servant, but a terrible master.
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And it can serve us.
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I mean, if our fear is physical, if we could be injured or killed doing something, fear may be a wise counselor saying, wait a minute, step away from this.
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You're not ready yet.
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Or prepare better.
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Or take precautions.
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 or be especially alert if it's something we really want to do.
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But if we're not prepared yet, then we avoid it.
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So if the fear is physical, we need to listen to our fears.
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If we could be injured or killed, they may guide us.
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If we're walking down one dark street in a part of the city we're not familiar with and we get a weird feeling about to go around a corner,
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 We might want to listen to that and go wide around the corner or across the street, that sort of thing.
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But if the fear is subjective, if we're afraid of looking foolish or being embarrassed or ashamed or awkward, just do it anyway because it doesn't break bones.
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So we're embarrassed.
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So, you know, I've been embarrassed many times and I write about that in the book as well.
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So those are the two kinds of approaches.
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When do you know when to listen to fear?
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When do you cut through it?
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And that's how I would differentiate it.
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 Why do you think so many people are crippled by the fear of judgment of other people, the embarrassment, what people will think about them, what they'll say about them?
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Why do you think so many people?
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 will wait decades to actually start a project, a creative endeavor, writing their book that they've been dreaming about for so long out of the insecurity of someone else's opinion.
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I couldn't theorize about why other people do it, but I do know that I've faced it myself.
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 And yet, as a gymnast, I failed, and as a football player, former football player, you faced it too.
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I failed 50 times a day.
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I tried something, I messed up, I fell, I crashed, and I kept doing it.
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Failure to me was just a stepping stone to where I was going.
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 But many people haven't really encountered a lot of that and they just want to succeed and they feel their identity is on the line, their self-worth is on the line, and they put too much on the line.
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To me, it was all play.
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You mess up and you do better next time.
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So I think there's one fundamental kind of fear.
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Well, there's several actually, but the fear of public speaking.
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One Canadian study found that it was rated slightly higher than the fear of death.
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 Because when we're speaking in public, all these people seem to be judging us.
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What if they don't like us?
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Oh my God, we might as well roll over and die.
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But the fact is, if we focus more on the task at hand.
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 of giving to them rather than what they think of us.
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If it's all about me, how do I look?
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Do they like me?
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How do I sound?
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Then we can get all nervous about that.
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That's one kind of fear, but it also is related to self-doubt, and it's related to the God of opinion.
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 You know, you've heard that saying, what other people think of us is none of our business.
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But most people don't believe that.
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They put the best self forward on Instagram, on Facebook, whatever, because they want to look good to everybody else, thinking everyone will like them if they look good.
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But sometimes if we look too good, other people feel bad around us.
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They compare themselves.
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 And there is an exercise one can do to free yourself from the God of opinion, so you can begin to trust the God of your heart.
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All right.
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And this, by the way, this actually works.
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It sounds silly, but it works.
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 You make a little altar in your room, maybe put a white cloth on it, some incense, a flower, whatever, make an altar.
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Then you make a little god of opinion and you put it on the altar.
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It can look like Darth Vader or a clay figure or put someone's picture on it who represents the god of opinion, and every morning when you get up,
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 You get on your hands and knees in front of this altar before you start your day, you bow down, touch your head to the floor, as ridiculous as it may feel, and you go, how am I doing, God of opinion?
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Am I okay?
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Do I look okay?
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Do I sound okay?
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Do you approve of me?
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 Now, if someone walks in on you when you're doing that, it's like, whoa, what are you doing?
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And it's like, oh, I'm just worshiping my god of opinion.
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That's even better.
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But let's say no one walks in.
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You do it privately.
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You don't have to do it the rest of your life, just for a week or two.
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 But what happens is, during the day, when you confront somebody and they seem to be judging you, and you're worried about their opinion, you can say to yourself, wait a minute, they look a lot like the god of opinion, but it couldn't be, because I know where it is, I left it back on my altar this morning, and here's the key, I've already worshipped it today.
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 I already did that.
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Do I want to do it again?"
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What this exercise does, it works at a subconscious level, because that little inner child, our subconscious mind, likes humor, and it likes symbolic imagery, and this has both.
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So this actually can help cure worshiping the God of opinion and start paying attention to our own inner knower.
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 I love this example and exercise.
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I don't think it's too crazy.
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I think I'm always exploring and trying new things like that in my own way.
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So I think that's a beautiful exercise.
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I think people should try that 100% if there's been something that's been holding you back from the opinions of others, peers, family, friends, social media, whatever it is.
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 practice it, try it for a day, try it for a week and see what happens.
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Do you ever feel that insecurity at your life at this stage of your life from the opinions of other people when you're putting out a new project or speaking or anything like that or have you mastered that?
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I only feel insecure around my wife.
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 That's about the only time.
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I just am so focused on sharing with people that the insecurity or doubt just never comes up.
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Even if it does, I've learned that God of opinion exercise from one of the mentors I call the warrior priest.
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I found out it really works.
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 I learned from the mentor I call the sage, who I met more recently, some other principles.
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And so even if I feel self-doubt, I've learned three things that are very, very effective for functioning well in life, despite the feelings or thoughts, positive or negative, which is to accept my thoughts, positive or negative, and my feelings,
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 is natural to me in that moment.
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Now when I say accept them, I mean as I might in meditation.
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Notice them.
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They're there, not denying them or ignoring them or running from them.
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Just notice they're coming up.
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The second thing is, what is my purpose?
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What is my goal or aim?
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And the third is doing what needs to be done in line with my purpose.
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 It sounds very simple, it's not so easy, but by doing that we learn to function well in life despite conflicting thoughts and feelings, all those complications.
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So the three things, accept your thoughts and feelings in the moment.
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 Maybe you don't want to continue on with those thoughts and feelings, but accept that they're happening.
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You're feeling them.
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You're thinking these things is step one.
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Notice them, really.
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Number two is go back to thinking about your purpose.
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What is my purpose?
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And then step three is to start taking actions.
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 Steps line that are in alignment of your purpose, right?
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It's respectful of the individual not in alignment with Dan Millman's philosophy or what you read in a book or scripture.
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I mean, it's basically Just what is your purpose a constructive purpose and then do what needs to be done.
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We've all done that We've taken out the trash or done our work or gone to gone to school or whatever it is when we weren't when we're tired or not feeling like it we've all done that so we know how to do that and
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 You know, there's a saying, a man named Shoma Morita once said, when running up a hill, it's okay to give up as many times as you want, as long as your feet keep moving.
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Absolutely.
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Do you feel like we can control our thoughts and our feelings?
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 Absolutely not.
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I know there are many books around or people who will tell you how to feel more resourceful feelings and feel this and feel that so you can finally live well and how to quiet the mind or think more positively.
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I personally, in my own experience,
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 have found that neither I nor anyone else I've ever seen has a spam filter in their head, can just say, oh, I don't want to think that thought anymore.
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In fact, the best way to become obsessed is to try not to think a given thought all day.
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 So rather than focus on that, trying to control what we have little control over by our will, because feelings and thoughts change all the time.
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They come and they go.
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They don't stay with us unless we're, you know, what you fight, what you resist persists, that old saying.
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So rather than trying to fix my thoughts and feelings,
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 There's another way to liberate ourselves, literally, from that.
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Now, feelings can be very valuable.
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I mean, they have information.
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If I'm feeling depressed or angry when I'm around a particular person, there's some action I may need to take, something I may need to express or change.
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So feelings have information.
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I'm not saying deny or ignore them, but to try to change them
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 You know, if there were a terrible storm outside right now and a lot of destruction, would it be your fault?
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Would it be my fault?
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I don't think so.
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And why not?
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Because we have no control over the weather.
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Unless we're a storm, I guess in the X-Men or something, you know, she could control the weather.
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If we could, we'd have some control, but we can't control the weather.
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Therefore, we're not responsible for it.
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 So we can probably agree on this, that we are responsible for what we can control, not responsible for what we can't control.
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 And so if we come to accept this idea, many people haven't thought about it, I know I hadn't until the sage exposed me to these ideas, but I realized that thoughts just come and go.
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And one problem with many teenagers, and adults as well, is they feel too responsible for the wild and crazy thoughts and feelings they're having, and not responsible enough for what they actually do.
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 and they use emotions or negative thoughts as an excuse to not do what they need to do.
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So there is a way, an approach to simplify our lives and just focus.
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The one question, the key question in my life in any given moment is, what do I need to do now?
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 And do that to the best of my ability.
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And there are tricks, there are ways, there are hacks.
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For example, I recommend to people they dream big but start small and then connect the dots.
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A little of something is better than a lot of nothing.
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 Right.
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What if someone is saying, well, I feel like I don't, I can't manage my thoughts and my feelings and it's consuming me so much that I just feel stressed out or anxious or worried all the time.
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How do we then, I guess, redirect our thoughts and our feelings into a more peaceful, peaceful heart, I guess.
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Yeah.
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 Well, the peaceful heart is not always a feeling of serenity.
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It's a way we behave.
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Let me give an example.
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A young man came up to me after I gave a talk at a college, and he said, Dan, I think you mentioned you have done consultations with people one-on-one at times, but you must charge a lot of money for your time.
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I'm a poor college student, so what can you tell me for a dollar?
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And he gave me his dollar.
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 And I told him six words that could change his life.
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I gave him a lifetime practice in six words.
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I'm still practicing.
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And those six words are hear and now, breathe and relax.
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And that is an entire teaching.
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The hear and now part, most people say, oh yeah, I know that already.
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I know it's good to live in the present moment.
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But many people don't really understand what that's about and why.
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 And for example, technically a physicist will tell you there's no such thing as the present moment, because what nanosecond can we grab hold of?
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You know, a millionth of a second.
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It's gone.
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It's gone.
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It's gone.
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So what teachers like myself, what we say is just handle what's in front of you, because past and future do not exist.
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They literally do not exist.
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 The past is always going to be past.
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The future is always going to be future.
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There's no such thing as future happiness.
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We're either happy now or we're not.
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We're either strong now or we're not.
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It's not a matter of I will get that way later in the future.
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So what do we bring to that?
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How do we know?
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Well, first of all, when I say they don't exist, what we call the past is a set of neural impulses in our brain we call memory.
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 And someone can show me a picture of their 10th birthday party and say, look, I know the past is real.
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I can show you this picture.
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But what's actually happening is I'm looking at a picture in this present moment, and they're showing it to me in this present moment, a visual image.
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 But that was, it's still a memory.
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Nothing wrong with the past.
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It's a great human capacity to remember, to learn, to reflect on, to ruminate on the past, but not to mistake it for reality.
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And the same with the future.
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We can plan our day, we can use our imagination about the future, but
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 The future never comes, it's always our imagination.
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Even if we plan our day, we don't want to become too attached to the plans, because they have a way of changing, don't they?
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We intend one thing, something comes up.
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So by focusing on the present moment, the here and now, that's our moment of power, it's our moment of reality, our moment of sanity.
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We can always handle this moment.
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When we're concerned about a toxic meeting we're gonna go into, we're not looking forward to it, it's not happening right now.
0
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 You know, I was in Costa Rica teaching a workshop there some years ago, and one of the things we did was a zip line.
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You know what zip lines are.
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You go up on a big platform and link up to this line and leap off 30 feet in the air and zoom down this line.
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Well, it's kind of scary.
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 And she'd never done this before.
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We had our harnesses on, our safety harnesses, which they hook us up to.
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And we were walking up this gigantic tree, like in Middle Earth.
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It was a spiral staircase going up this tree.
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And as we were walking up, she said, oh, I'm so nervous.
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I'm really getting scared.
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And I went, I don't understand.
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Haven't you ever walked up stairs before?
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 And she went, oh yeah, I've walked upstairs.
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I said, well, that's all we're doing right now.
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She went, oh, OK.
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So she relaxed for a little while.
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We got to the top on the big platform.
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People were going off.
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And they hooked us up to a cable at the center of the tree, around the tree, so we wouldn't fall off the platform.
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 And then she saw somebody leaping off and she went, oh, I'm getting scared again.
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And I said, I don't understand.
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The only way we can get hurt standing here is to take off our helmets and bang our head against the tree.
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And she went, oh, OK.
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Brought her back to the present again.
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 And finally, she was standing on the edge, ready to leap off.
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They'd hooked her up to the line, and I went, now you can be scared.
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At least it's appropriate in the moment, you know?
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So by focusing on the moment, it simplifies our life.
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This is the moment of power.
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 to focus on our, not our cosmic purpose or ultimate purpose or 20 year goal, but focus on what I need to do now.
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What is my purpose right now?
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My purpose is very clear.
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So is yours.
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Has your definition of a purposeful life or meaningful life changed over, over the last 20, 30 years?
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Or has it always been the same?
0
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No, it's changed.
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It's evolved like everything else.
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Um,
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 It's become clarified more than changed, my sense of what it means to have a purpose.
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Reflecting on my little granddaughter when she was in diapers crawling across the floor, it struck me that she wasn't doing this to exercise.
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She wanted something, some sparkly little thing she was crawling toward.
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And I believe from infancy we're hardwired goal seekers.
0
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 We're happiest when we're pursuing a goal.
0
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Those people who feel most fulfilled aren't just those who've reached a destination, but those who are moving toward it.
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In fact, I define success as making progress toward a meaningful goal.
0
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 And you know, in the Peaceful Warrior movie, you may recall a moment when the character Dan is walking up this big hill with the man I called Socrates, played by Nick Nolte, you know.
0
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And Dan has this realization.
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He said, Sok, you know, I just realized it's the journey that makes us happy, not the destination.
0
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And that's a bit of wisdom, because most of our lives are spent on the journey.
0
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 But without a destination in mind, there is no journey.
0
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We just wander around.
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So from our point A,
2
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 And studying with him to improve my life.
2
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I was studying to maybe refine what I was teaching, to inform my teachings so I could simplify further and keep things more and more practical and realistic.
2
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And he was a devotee of reality and he brought me down to earth from the metaphysical realms.
2
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 So, your question is, yeah, I had a lot of success early on.
2
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It was just my destiny, if you will.
2
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I got lucky at the world championship, as I described what happened.
2
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You know, I was in the middle of my championship routine when I completely forgot the routine, forgot what I was doing.
2
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My mind was a total blank and I could have very well just stopped and hung my head down and that would have been it.
2
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 But I remembered that stop, thinking, and jump.
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And I just kept jumping, and I kept doing flips, and I just made it up as I went along.
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Improv.
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Now, people have trouble relating to that.
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They're used to seeing gymnastics in the Olympics, that people do routines over and over and over and rehearse and practice for their performance.
2
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But I never did.
2
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I used to do different routines every meet.
2
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I was creative, and I liked improvisational stuff.
2
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 I kept learning, all these experiences, and then I ended up lucking out and getting the coaching job at Stanford at 22 years of age and went through many experiences learning how to coach.
2
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Then, you know, it's funny, a lot of managers in business, I think they'd be better off considering themselves as coaching a team.
2
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 And it's a beautiful and apt metaphor.
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It's not just fancy words.
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They are a coach, no different from a sports coach, and they have a team to manage.
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But I think rather than a staff, you know, manager and staff, it works better to think of themselves as a team.
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 Yeah, so I learned a lot.
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What prepared me was my athletic days.
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That prepared me for what I was to do later on.
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I didn't know it at the time, of course, but I describe in the book how a Zen master knocked on my office door and said, I have a group of students.
2
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We meditate in the mornings.
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Could we use your floor exercise mat?
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And I went, sure.
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In fact, can I join you?
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 And later I learned transcendental meditation and all that.
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This was before I met any of the mentors.
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So I had some background in college after I shattered my leg in a motorcycle crash, as many people know about who've read my work.
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And I describe what really happened like that in the new book.
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I started thinking more deeply, what is inside?
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What's in my psyche?
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I realized my own mortality.
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It shook me upward, let's say.
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 And I actually experimented, it was back in the late 60s, I was at Berkeley, and I went to a teammate of mine and I said, listen, I've heard you can get some real insights with this stuff, what is it, LSD?
2
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And I said, can you give me any advice?
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He said, Dan, have you ever been drunk?
2
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I went, no, I don't really like alcohol.
2
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He said, have you ever been stoned?
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I went, no, I don't like having smoke in my lungs.
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He said, you better get drunk and or stoned first.
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You better walk before you run.
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 So I experimented a little bit with some grass and got the munchies and experienced music for the first time in a different way.
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But the LSD trip for me was quite valuable.
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I don't believe in recreational drugs at all, but for a sacred purpose in the right setting, it was quite profound.
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All that happened before I met any of the mentors.
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But I think more than anything,
2
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 what it was my commitment to share with other people.
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Because something hit me.
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I was so much into self-improvement, Louis.
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Maybe you were too.
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As a kid, I took memory courses, speed reading.
2
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I learned to juggle and do magic tricks, sleight of hand, yo-yos, bull whips, boomerangs.
2
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I just learned all these skills because I wanted to improve myself.
2
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 And one day it struck me that no matter how much I improved myself, only one person benefited.
2
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But if I could somehow influence other people in a positive way, and look what you're doing, you know, then it made my life more meaningful.
2
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Not everybody has that calling.
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That's fine, they don't need to.
2
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But for me, that was the call.
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And because I wanted to share anything I learned with other people, I think life opened me up to
2
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 meeting these four mentors, the professor, the guru, the warrior priest, and then the sage, over a span of 20 years, intensive training.
2
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Even people who've read Way and the Peaceful Warrior think, oh, Dan was this jock who met this old guy in a gas station, and now he teaches spiritual stuff.
2
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But they don't understand the intense preparation and training I went through to do what I do now.
2
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 If you could only, let's put you in a hypothetical scenario.
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Maybe it's not a fair question, but hypothetically, if you could only spend one more day with one of the mentors, one of the four mentors, and you had to choose one, which one would it be?
2
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And what question or conversation would you still want to ask?
2
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 that maybe is not been asked.
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Leave it to you, Lewis.
2
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That is a great question.
2
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I've never been asked and probably will never be asked again.
2
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If I could be with one of those mentors now.
2
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Only one.
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You can only be with one.
2
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Only one.
2
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Well, I could answer that different ways.
2
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Let me just take the easy way out.
2
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I'd want to be with the sage, the last one, because he's the only one still alive.
2
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 Okay.
2
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Though it'd be very interesting being with one of the others who passed on.
2
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So, and also because it was more of a culmination, it was more of a finishing school, if you will.
2
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Now, if you'd ask me another question, who's your next teacher?
2
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I have no idea if I will have one, but I suspect my wife has been one of my teachers all along.
2
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 Later in life, a lot of my training is just to keep up with her.
2
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I think she's an older soul.
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That's my own feeling about it.
2
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And I'm just playing catch up this life, doing all this hard work.
2
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 the things that she had already realized in some ways.
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So I think we need to appreciate our spouse, if they're in our corner.
2
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And to me, more than anything, she's my best friend.
2
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And I think that's so important.
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We're not competing with each other.
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We're not, even though I do feel insecure around her, as I mentioned, sometimes.
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So without idealizing her, I mean, she's got her issues too, like we all have, but,
2
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 It's been a real blessing in my life.
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Socrates, the ancient Greek, not my Socrates, he actually said this.
2
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He said, by all means, marry.
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If you choose well, you'll be happy.
2
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And if you do not choose well, you'll become a philosopher.
2
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 I mean, you realize he became a philosopher.
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You're a philosopher too, but it seems like you've got a happy marriage.
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Yes.
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Also, I had both best of both worlds.
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So you were asking?
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The greatest lesson your wife's taught you in the last 45 plus years.
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I believe the most challenging lesson for me, we all have our tendencies and values and priorities.
2
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And I think I came in to life on what they call a certain ray.
2
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 And my devotion was, my family was my extended spiritual family, my students, my readers.
2
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And so that was my priority.
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Fortunately, I did better than Mahatma Gandhi, who was a great figure, an iconic figure, but he completely ignored his children who suffered and their lives reflected that.
2
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 And my priority was always on my work.
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It felt important to me that I needed to spend my time no matter what.
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Before that, it was on the search.
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And my first wife suffered the effects of that because I really wasn't engaged in the relationship.
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I was just focused on my work.
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And so my work changed.
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It became teaching work in a larger world.
2
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 So what my wife has taught me, one day she said this, and it didn't make sense to me at the time, but I never forgot it.
2
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She said, Dan, with all the work you do and all the books you write, it may be some of the most important thing you'll have ever done is help raise our daughters.
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And at the time I said, well, yeah, that sounds good.
2
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But I didn't really get it, but now I do, now that they're grown.
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There are some amazing people, as all young people are, in their own way.
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 I don't want to be a bragging dad and I think it's more boring than hearing a bragging dad, but now it's grandchildren and it's taking care of them.
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It's not always easy.
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It's like running a marathon, delightful, but exhausting.
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So I'm having to, it humanized me in terms of focusing on my daily life, my relationships and family.
2
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 And setting aside my work at times when I need to do that.
2
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So I think that's, you know, I was introduced in Melbourne, Australia, when I gave a talk down there as an expert in mindfulness.
2
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And the first thing I said when I got up on the stage was, my wife might beg to differ.
2
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 When I do the dishes, she always finds the spots I've missed.
2
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Dan, come back and redo this.
2
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These are the kind of humble things that I learn from her each day.
2
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By the way, while we're on the topic of mindfulness, to me it's become a thing, this like solution.
2
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Oh, I practice mindfulness.
2
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But actually, mindfulness, I don't know how people can write whole books on it.
2
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Basically, it just means paying attention.
2
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 to what's going on in the present moment without judgments, just being aware.
2
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And if we do it internally, we call it mindfulness meditation, noticing the thoughts and feelings arising, letting them go.
2
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But even more important, because we don't live life in a sitting position, in a lotus position, more important is being mindful in everyday life.
2
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And that's something I'm still learning and my wife is still teaching me more about.
2
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 Wow, that's beautiful.
2
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It's interesting, in my relationship with my girlfriend, it feels different in the way that we communicate with one another than my previous relationship, let's say.
2
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There's a different quality to our conversations and spiritual connection, it feels.
2
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 And, uh, we, we've gone very, you know, vulnerable early on when the first day we met, both of us are very vulnerable and it's kind of been that way the entire time.
2
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And so every time she asked me what might seem like an uncomfortable conversation,
2
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 I tell her, do you want me to tell you the truth of what I think and feel and my vision and all these different things or not?
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Because everyone I've shared in the past hasn't been able to handle the truth without some type of reaction or not accepting me or getting upset or whatever it might be.
2
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And she said, yes, I can handle it.
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And then in my mind, I go, OK, here we go again.
2
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I'm going to say the truth, and then this is not going to work out.
2
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But the reason I'm queuing this up is because one of these conversations
2
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 was her asking me, what's my vision and what's my priorities in my life?
2
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And I said, do you want the truth?
2
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And she said, yes.
2
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I go, to be honest, I think most women will not want to hear what I'm about to say if I was in a relationship with them.
2
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 But my vision and my purpose, my number one priority is to take care of my mental, physical, and spiritual health first.
2
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Because if I'm not in a good state of mind or a good body or good physical health, then I'm gonna have to put all my energy into getting there so I can help others.
2
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 That's priority number one for me.
2
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Maybe I'm wrong, but that's where I feel like I'm out of my life.
2
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The second biggest priority is my mission, my purpose, my calling.
2
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Because if I'm abandoning my calling from my creator, I'm going to be very upset, resentful, unhappy, you know, whatever it might be.
2
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And so my mission is my main driver.
2
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 uh, beyond that.
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And then three will be you, my partner, if this continues to grow and work out.
2
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And I go, you're probably not going to like that because most women want to be the number one priority in a relationship, but that just doesn't work for me.
2
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And I've tried that in the past and it didn't work.
2
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And she looked at me, she goes, that's it.
2
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I love this.
2
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I've, you know, I've always wanted to find a man with a purpose.
2
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And so I was like, okay, well,
2
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 But I'm hearing you say that your work was a massive priority for you.
2
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Do you wish that you pulled back on that in your 30s, 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, and I guess were more present in your marriage or in your, you know, with your kids?
2
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Or do you feel like what you did was exactly in alignment with what you wanted to do?
2
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 Yeah, I really wouldn't change anything at this point in time.
2
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Looking back, I did what I needed to do, just as you stated, Louis.
2
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Taking care of my body and my health is essential to anybody's life, because spiritual life doesn't begin up in the air.
2
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It begins on the ground, where we are.
2
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And it's the old cliche, you know.
2
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 Take care of your oxygen mask before you put it on somebody else.
2
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So that allows us to do all that.
2
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So I'm really aligned with what you've done.
2
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And no, I think one thing I did to model this vulnerability is I wish I'd been more communicative with my wife and my daughters.
2
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About what?
2
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 Well, my own vulnerabilities, when I screwed up to apologize, even when I wasn't sure I was really wrong, but just to acknowledge it and
2
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 If when my daughters were young, being teenagers, they'd sometimes run in their room, slam the door, they were upset.
2
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Their mom would just pound on the door and come on, let me in, let me.
2
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I would step back.
2
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I just stepped back at that point.
2
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It was too difficult for me at the time.
2
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So maybe I would have stayed engaged and been more involved with their schooling, knowing their friends' names, that sort of thing.
2
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 These are small things, but big things for them at the time.
2
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It wasn't like I abandoned my family.
2
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I mean, I was a pretty good dad.
2
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We still have good relationships and everything.
2
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 Um, there, we all make mistakes, you know, we, we find things, we do them differently, but anyway, I want to make that clear because there are people out there, maybe in a similar situation, I wouldn't change my priorities.
2
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I I'm here to, to share what I can.
2
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And, but I will see this Lewis, when you get to be my age.
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 Your marriage, if that is your partner, is going to take on more and more priority because you've done the work, you've completed, you've accomplished a lot, and you realize you're going to be together this time and you've got the two of you.
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Many people are afraid of intimacy because they're afraid of loss.
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 And my wife and I talk about that because one day, you know, she says, I'm going to die first.
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I said, no, I'm going to die first.
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I don't want to have to deal with, with that, with you dying first.
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So there, these are intimate things, but many people have conversations about this.
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It's difficult.
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What do you think the lesson, you know, I'm seeing that as a big, a fear that's, you know, you don't want to lose your wife, obviously before you go, what do you think, um,
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 is the lesson for most people.
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You know, I don't want to put this out there, but what is the lesson for most people if they lost their partner?
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What is the lesson that they need to learn?
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Can learn if they're willing to step into, you know, that unfortunate, obviously, and very challenging time.
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 Well, just love and trust.
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And many people are afraid to do that because the grieving will be proportionate to the love.
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But I just came across a quote.
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It's a hobby.
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It's the one big hobby I had for the last 40 years.
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I collect quotations, pithy bits of wisdom, as you've noticed.
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I like to share them.
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I love them.
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Yeah, I do too.
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 It's been just a hobby of mine.
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And one that comes up for this situation, it may be when you lose somebody, the most appropriate response is not necessarily grieving, but gratitude for the time you had together.
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On the other hand, everyone grieves in their own way, and there's no one way to do it.
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And it's a natural part of life.
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When people have been together a long time, we just have to face that with a warrior spirit.
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 Mm.
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 Man, Peaceful Heart Warrior Spirit is out now.
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It's the true story about, really, your life and your spiritual quest and a lot of great lessons.
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The four different mentors that you've worked with over the years, the lessons they've taught you, incredible examples and stories, actionable practices that people can take on to have a deeper, peaceful heart and warrior spirit as well, to take on the challenges and adversities of life.
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 People can get the book right now.
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Where can we go and support you personally?
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Where do you spend the most time?
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I love getting your newsletter, so I know people can go to PeacefulWarrior.com at least and jump on your newsletter, but where do you spend the most time that people can connect with you?
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Well, I think my website, PeacefulWarrior.com.
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There's a free life purpose calculator.
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People might enjoy just putting in their date of birth, even a relationship number there you can do, and various books, online courses I teach.
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 a four-minute meditation, a four-minute workout, which I do every day as a core of my workout.
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So yeah, peacefulwarrior.com.
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But also, I share my favorite quotes with people on Facebook and Twitter as well.
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Anybody who wants to follow me there can do that.
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And yeah, so I'm going to continue to teach where I'm invited, and I'm looking forward to going on as long as that may be, staying in good health.
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 It's one of the treasures of my life is meeting people like you, Lewis, and being invited to share with you and have conversations.
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Yeah, I appreciate it.
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Every time you come on, we get such a great response.
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People love the message.
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So glad.
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You always got these new quotes to share, which I love.
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 I'm curious.
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I want to ask you a couple final questions.
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I've asked you these before, but I'm curious if the response is the same or if maybe they're different.
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This is called the three truths question.
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It's a hypothetical question that I'll have to look up what you said before, but I'm curious what you say now.
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Imagine it is your last day on Earth.
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You get to live as long as you want to live.
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But eventually, you got to call it.
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 call it a day.
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And you continue to live out your dreams and have the relationship you want with your wife and see your kids flourish and all these different things, they all come true.
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 But for whatever reason, in this hypothetical scenario, you have to take all of your work with you to the next place, or it goes somewhere, but we don't have access to your work anymore.
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Your message, your quotes, your books, your content, this video, it's gone for whatever reason.
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But you get to leave behind three lessons to the world, three things you know to be true from your life lessons, or maybe the lessons that these mentors tell you.
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What would be those three truths that you would share behind?
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Yeah, I don't know what I said last time at all, but this time,
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 Right now, I would underscore with a yellow highlighter some of the things I've shared already.
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First, it would be about trusting your process.
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Again, not comparing to other people, but trusting the process of your life unfolding.
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The second would be that faith is the courage to live as if everything that happens is for our highest good and learning.
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And the third would be to remember
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 your innate worth as a human being, and treat yourself kindly, with compassion, as you would treat others.
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I love that.
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I think that third one is a big one.
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And if people can remember their innate worth,
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 they can hopefully overcome the insecurities and self doubt that holds a lot of people back from the fear of failure, the fear of success, the fear of judgment, and just be willing to pursue the calling and listen to the calling and pursue whatever that calling is for you.
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Trusting the process of the failures, the lessons, the learning, and, um, have the courage to know that it's all coming in your highest,
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 It's the highest level of learning for you.
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So I love these three truths.
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I want to acknowledge you, Dan.
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I've been, again, a big fan of yours for a long time and just inspired by your message, your mission, the way you constantly show up as a human being.
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 The way you continually want to serve humanity.
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I think it's just such an inspiration So I really acknowledge you for it And I hope I hope you get to keep doing an in-person workshop sometime in the future and I got to come out sometime But I want people to make sure they subscribe and come to workshops and do your online courses and everything as well again peaceful warrior calm and the book
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 Peaceful Heart Warrior Spirit.
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Make sure you guys pick up a copy of this.
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You will be inspired.
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It'll just give you more tools to support you on your life's journey and figuring out what your message is, what your meaningful life is to you.
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So make sure you guys pick up a copy of the book, Peaceful Heart Warrior Spirit, anywhere online, Amazon, but also at Dan's website, peacefulwarrior.com.
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And support your independent bookstores.
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Oh, there you go.
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Support independent bookstores, yeah.
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 It's at Barnes and Noble and independent bookstores and all that stuff, yeah.
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And the final question is, what is your definition of greatness?
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There's an ancient quote that says, he or she who would be the greatest among you is the servant of all.
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Dan Milman, thanks so much for being here.
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I appreciate it.
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You bet, Lewis.
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You take care.
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 Thank you so much for listening.
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I hope you enjoyed today's episode and inspired you on your journey towards greatness.
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Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links.
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And also make sure to share this with a friend and subscribe over on Apple podcasts as well.
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 I really love hearing feedback from you guys, so share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most.
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And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.
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And now it's time to go out there and do something great.