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Hey everyone, this is Molly and Matt and we re the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart Podcasts.
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It s a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting.
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Like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone and so much more.
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Let s learn about all of it and then some.
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Listen to Grown Up Stuff How to Adult on America s number one podcast network, iHeart.
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Open your free iHeart app and search Grown Up Stuff.
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This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol.
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The joy they brought to the nation.
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You re free completely.
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No one is there to destroy you.
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The danger they endured.
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They said my head should be cut off.
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I m John Legend.
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Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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A new season of Bridgerton is here.
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And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
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I m your host, Gabby Collins.
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And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
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Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
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Then fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday.
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My next guest is Idina Menzel.
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She has a new album called Drama Queen and a children s book called Proud Mouse out September 12th.
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Make sure to watch and read.
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My son is mixed.
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I don t want my whiteness to be something that I know people say, you re the mom.
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He s going to love you.
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But there s going to be things that I can t understand for him because I m not in his skin.
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And as he s getting older, he s becoming more and more aware of the society that he lives in and the violence, the racism.
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and I just want to be someone he can come to.
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Hey, everyone.
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Welcome back to On Purpose.
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I am so grateful for our community here at the number one health podcast in the world.
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Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow.
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And I know that you re always looking for new stories, new ideas, new things to bring into your life so that you can feel better, feel happier, feel healthier, and feel healed.
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And today I m talking to a guest who has a really unique experience of life.
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And that s what I love.
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I love learning about people who ve come from different backgrounds, different walks of life, taken different paths.
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And I m speaking to all of you about Idina Menzel, a powerhouse, multi-hyphenate, a singer, an actress in film and TV, a songwriter, a Broadway star, and a philanthropist.
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And I mean, her accolades are absolutely unbelievable.
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Idina rose to fame for her role as Maureen in the popular Broadway musical Rent, and her career took off when she won a Tony Award for her role as Elphaba, the Wicked Witch of the West in the musical Wicked.
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If you haven t seen it, it s phenomenal.
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I can t believe you haven t seen it, yeah?
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Idina s voice can be heard as Elsa in Disney s Oscar-winning Frozen, the second-highest-grossing animated film of all time, with more than 1.2 billion
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billion dollars in worldwide box office revenue.
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And right now, she s out talking about her children s book, Loud Mouse, which we ll be hearing about today as well.
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Please welcome to the show Idina Menzel.
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Hi.
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Thank you for doing this.
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Thanks for having me.
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Yeah, it s so great to meet you and so happy to get to spend this time with you.
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I know you ve had a long day.
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We were just talking about you ve been up since 4 a.m.
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Yeah, and I m on LA time.
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So that was weird because I couldn t get to bed with my jet lag, so I m running on
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empty, but I m happy to be here.
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I ve just come in as well three days ago.
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And so I know what that feels like.
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But I guess the question is that you ve been up since 4am.
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You ve been doing so much work today.
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What drives you?
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What motivates you?
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What keeps you going?
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My son, my 13 year old son, Walker.
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I think that s the main driving force.
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I mean, obviously, creativity and my
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you know, artistic soul, my desire to keep creating and finding new ways to express myself.
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But if I m being completely honest, it s, you know, it s how can I be a better mom?
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How, what am I doing today to help my son?
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You know, my relationship with my husband.
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I think it s because I m, I ve turned 50 now and,
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The ambition starts to wane a little bit when you have a little success, too.
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start to feel okay, like I can afford to pay for his schooling, and I can pay my mortgage, and I m doing wonderful things and working with terrific people, and so I can relax a little bit.
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When I was younger, I was just pounding the pavement so hard, you know, and really, I believed in myself, but I was just really working hard and playing gigs everywhere and trying to get noticed.
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So at this age, it starts to, you know, you go, okay, everything s going to be okay, you know?
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And so you want to give a lot of energy to your marriage, to your child.
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And that s why this children s book is, I guess, is sort of an organic step in the evolution of things, you know?
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Because people always ask me to do one, you know?
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Because I guess my trajectory of characters and this sort of Elphaba s and Elsa s
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These amazing young women that have all this incredible power and are role models for kids.
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It s all about embracing that power and harnessing it and not being afraid to send it out into the world.
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For some reason, there s
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The universe has thrown these things my way.
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I don t know if it s the chicken or the egg.
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Is it me, you know, choosing these somehow, even though they were jobs I needed and I had to audition for them?
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So I think that there s, in the tradition of those characters, I felt that I wanted to write a children s book that was about
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Really, me having those very similar experiences when I was little and really believing in myself at a young age, really recognizing that I had something special to offer, but also being hesitant to share it out of fear of being alienated, being disliked, feeling like I was calling too much attention to myself.
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How much space can we take up in the world?
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What s allowed?
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especially as women, I think, we re always sort of second-guessing ourselves.
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So that s what the book s about, but that s what I deal with as a grownup, too, every day.
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I m still second-guessing, when I walk in a room, how much space I can take up, how big my voice is, literally and metaphorically.
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Wow.
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And how do you think your view has changed of what you view as important from that time when you were, like, grinding and hustling and busy working hard to now having a bit more, I guess, structure and peace and a bit of arrival feeling, if that makes sense?
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The desperation isn t there, you know?
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It doesn t mean that I m not... I m not still dreaming and there s not things that I... There are still things I want.
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There s a lot of things that I find still elusive to me.
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We could talk about those.
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So I still have ambition, but the fear of literally not being able to pay my rent or not making good on my commitment to myself as a young girl of working hard to have my dream come true.
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My dreams have come true.
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I perform on a stage, I perform in all these incredible venues for thousands of people, and I m Disney Princess Queen for God s sakes, you know?
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So, but you know, the more you get, the more you want, and you see things differently through different
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a different lens when you become a mom, really.
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Yeah.
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Two things you hit there, which I read about you when I was looking for this interview.
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You said you have many dreams, but then one of the dreams I ve heard you ve had is your teeth falling out.
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I know that s a different type of dream.
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That s not the kind of dream.
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That s my nightmare.
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Have you ever looked into all the meanings behind it?
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Yes, it s all about anxiety.
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Have you ever found a meaning that sits well with you, that gives you some comfort?
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No, not that dream.
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It s always such anxiety and that s what I ve read about it.
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And I also, usually the teeth come out and you can hear the sound of them clinking against the sink.
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Yeah.
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I have that one and I have one that I never actually graduated college, but I m two credits short.
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And I have it so much that I still wake up with a feeling of like, why do I feel unsettled?
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Oh, you think you didn t graduate?
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Which I go, wait, no, I was there.
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I got my diploma.
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That s so funny.
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Yeah, I get the dream of like, I have another exam again.
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I think that s the one that sets me up.
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I m like, no, I don t want to do another exam.
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I ve done enough.
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exams in my life.
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But no, that s interesting.
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And yeah, that lack of control, I think that s what I ve seen as well.
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Like when you re losing your teeth in a dream, it s like feeling like the anxiety around losing control.
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Yeah.
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And then I have cracked a tooth on a bagel, so I was like, my nightmare s coming!
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It s coming true.
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On a bagel?
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You know, whatever.
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Yeah.
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Oh my gosh.
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Yeah, it was a hard bagel.
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Yeah.
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And hearing the teeth, that sounds... I know.
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Sounds make me very late-school-ish.
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I know.
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I feel like sounds are tough.
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And then also with working hard, I mean, before this, you used to, well, not before this, a long time ago, you used to perform at bar mitzvahs and weddings.
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Yeah.
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Which one did you prefer?
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Was there a better one?
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I went through different phases.
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When I was 15 years old, my parents divorced.
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And I wanted to get a job to kind of help out.
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Dad was supporting two households.
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And my mom started dating this guy who was really sweet and saw a talent in me.
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And he knew some guy that had a wedding band out in Long Island.
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And he said, you should audition.
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I said, I don t know enough songs.
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And we lied about my age, because we didn t want them to worry that I was still a kid.
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So we said I was 18.
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Like, that s so old.
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And I started learning a bunch of songs.
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I put on kind of a slutty dress, and I went in and I sang what I sing back.
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I m dating myself, but I sang
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evergreen, like a Barbra Streisand song, and I sang We re Walking on Sunshine.
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Oh, I remember I sang a Flashdance song.
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Anyway, and I got the job, and I started working all the time, weddings, bar mitzvahs.
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It didn t matter.
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They all can be bad because nobody s listening.
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They can be really wonderful, especially for a young girl.
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becoming, trying to figure out my identity as a vocalist, having to learn so many kinds of genres of music, you know, like Motown, pop, rock, jazz.
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So I really, that was kind of my education of music and I m working, there s a lot of incredible musicians that do it as a side gig just to make extra money.
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So
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The good thing about people not listening is you can try a lot of things.
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And one of my favorite times would be when they say, ladies and gentlemen, please take your seats.
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Your salad is being served.
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And then the band would take a break except for me and the keyboard player.
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And then we d sing a Billie Holiday tune or Ella Fitzgerald.
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And at a young age, I learned.
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what melody is and I would listen to them on the car ride to the gig and then I d learn what I was contributing to it and how to improvise and where were my instincts, my impulses as a singer.
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I actually still identify with, I still see myself as that girl, the chick gig singer, the wedding singer.
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And it s been so much longer that I ve not been that than I was, but I still just feel like that s who I am.
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When I m on stage, I could be
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at Madison Square Garden.
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I m still with my band.
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I want to jam.
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I m okay with spontaneity.
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You walk on, I was 15 years old, and they call a tune.
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You have to call it in the right key.
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You have to know the lyrics.
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If you don t know the lyrics, you tape.
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Now, they have iPads, but I would pull out a little Rolodex of cheat sheets, and I d tape them to the mic, and I d
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sing the songs.
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Like I said, nobody s paying attention to the band, so they don t see.
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But I still identify as that person.
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And no matter what, when I go to someone else s wedding or bar mitzvah, or when I get paid a lot of money to come be a guest with somebody and sing a couple songs, then I m really taken aback.
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Because I m like, I used to make $100 for the night to sing.
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And then I m up there, and I still feel like that
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that unknown girl just trying to.
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do a great job and get the song done.
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That s amazing.
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Yeah.
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That s incredible.
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What are the next steps?
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When you hear about that experience that you re in, and I am doing a bit of biography charting because I do find it fascinating.
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You look at the stage you re on today and you look back there and you re like, wow, that s a long, long way.
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I think it s easy externally to be like, oh yeah, there was this line of great things that happened and it took off.
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But what s the next step from that?
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In what part?
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It worked part of the timeline.
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Pretty much immediately, after you re doing that, I m guessing, is that building your confidence?
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Is it just allowing you to pay for a few things on the side?
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What is that doing for your creative career?
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To be a working singer, to make a living as a singer, especially at that age, was a source of
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Deep pride for me.
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Then, as I kept getting rejected at auditions, I was writing my own music.
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I was trying to get a record deal.
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Nothing was happening.
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Now I m doing it six, seven years.
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Now I m getting a little bit annoyed.
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You were singing at weddings and bar mitzvahs for like six, seven years.
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Yeah, go in and out depending when I was in college.
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I went to NYU and certain semesters it was rough, but then other semesters I could pick up gigs.
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Then I would be a little bit more, I like to say, disgruntled, and I d stand and I d think, if I m doing this when I m 30, you know, I m quitting the business.
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And I d get in trouble.
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The band leader would say, you have an attitude today.
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And I d be thinking, well, it s because I just...
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I m going to be something one day, you know, I m going to get out of here.
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So, I forget what your question was.
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Well, no, my question is that idea.
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What was the next thing?
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No, like, that is, that s, you re doing exactly what I was asking.
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Like, that idea that you re going to auditions, what were you auditioning for?
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Like, what was important to you at that time?
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Yeah, so when I was a little girl, my parents took me in, I grew up in Long Island, they d take me into the city to see Broadway shows.
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I wanted to be on Broadway.
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Then when I started doing all these weddings and seeing all these kinds of music, I started writing my own music.
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And my tastes evolved with the kind of music that I wanted to sing.
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And so then I wanted my own record deal.
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I wanted to make albums.
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And so I would now also put rock bands together.
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And I d go play at CBGBs and at the Bitter End, out in the village.
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And so that started to be the thing that I wanted.
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I finally, at 25, I got the original cast of Rent, which was the big rock musical of the time.
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It was theater, but it was rock, and so that started me on this sort of path of kind of straddling both worlds always.
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which back then in the 90s, it was frowned upon to try to go from theater to legitimate rock, pop kind of career.
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Now, everyone can do everything.
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But back then, if you re a movie star, you didn t do TV.
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And if you were a theater person, people wouldn t believe you as a rock.
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but here I was kind of in both.
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And so I did that dance for a long time.
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And now you get to the point where you ve done so many different things and so many, I put out so many kinds of albums and that I can get on stage and I don t care that I m one particular style because now my body of work is who I am.
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But it s taken me all that time to feel like, you know,
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I have a story and identity because back then it was like, but who are you?
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What kind of singer are you?
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What are you going to be?
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What do you represent?
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I said, well, I can do jazz and I can do Motown and I can do Madonna and Whitney Houston and rock and roll.
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Yeah.
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So my versatility was my curse.
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Wow.
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What were you doing by age 30?
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Because you said, if I m doing this by 30, I m going to quit.
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What were you actually doing when you were 30 years old?
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I was in a workshop of Wicked.
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So I was hired to develop Wicked, which was a five-year process.
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And after every workshop of that, I always thought they were going to replace me with someone more famous or something.
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And so I always thought I was going to get fired.
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So the fact that I actually got to the Gershwin Theater when I was, I don t know, 32, I was like, whew.
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You always think you re going to get fired in this business.
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So when they bring you into develop, and pardon my ignorance, just because I don t know.
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So if they re bringing you into develop, what does that actually mean?
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Does that mean you might make it into the show, or you re in the behind the scenes?
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They say that they re looking for their muses, and so they d like to find the people that they are writing for, because the composers are writing.
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for your voice, which is like the greatest honor.
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Rent was like that as well.
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And most of the things I do, because they re original musicals, they go through these long developmental processes, which I love.
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I love standing on a piano and an incredibly talented composer, like Stephen Schwartz or Tom Kitt or Jonathan Larson, and they say, figure out where my voice sits
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and how they want to write something.
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so that I can soar and the character can soar.
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Sometimes that gets confused.
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Or it s one and the same, I guess.
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But I love that process so much.
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And what it is, is you go in a room, usually in like a regular rehearsal room, and sometimes they only have the first act.
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Sometimes they have the whole thing, but then they, so you do like a little reading of it for a bunch of people, investors, and then everyone gives notes.
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And then six months later, they ve scrapped a bunch of things.
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Maybe they took a song out of Act Two and put it in Act One, and now that offsets the whole balance, and then this part sucks, but this part s really working, you know, and they keep having to, and you just go with the flow, and I find it fascinating, the whole process.
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Yeah, no, it s interesting hearing about it as a fan of Broadway.
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I always have been in the West End in London where I grew up and then Broadway here.
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It s interesting knowing how it works because I think you take for granted that some of these things, the amount of time they take in development before we even see them.
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It s funny, I did Wicked at the West End for six months, a year and a half after I left it here in New York.
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I always wanted to open a show on the West End.
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To me, that was the most prestigious
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thing to do.
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And I had one of the greatest times of my life.
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I had two Australians starring with me who taught me how to party and do eight shows a week, which I think I only learned that because I like, they like to take credit for that.
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But I also think it was because I had already won a Tony.
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I knew I wasn t going to get fired.
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I knew how to pace myself eight shows a week.
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The pressure was off me.
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SPEAKER_01
And so I could go to the pub after, but you know, when,
2
SPEAKER_01
When you re in the beginnings of a show, you re a monk and you don t do anything and you go home and you watch movies and you don t drink alcohol and that can be kind of lonely.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, those schedules seem just insane.
2
SPEAKER_02
I was with a friend recently, they re piloting a show in San Diego at the Old Globe Theater to try and take it into Broadway.
2
SPEAKER_02
So I was watching her and she was telling me about her schedule.
2
SPEAKER_02
Then I just went and saw The Music Man this Sunday.
2
SPEAKER_02
And like watching Hugh do that.
2
SPEAKER_02
And it was just, it s fascinating to me to think just what a tough schedule that is.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s exhausting.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
And how do you like, what were your coping mechanisms the first time around?
2
SPEAKER_01
Like not when you d won the Tony and not... Well, the first time with Brent, I lost my voice.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, I started, I was abusing my voice.
2
SPEAKER_01
I didn t, I took voice lessons my whole life, but I stopped going to my teacher at one point.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I just had never, even though I was singing all those gigs at the weddings, I had never done eight shows a week.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I had to go back to a teacher and address all the different problem spots in the show for myself.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then I ended up being stronger than ever, and then it s never happened to me again.
2
SPEAKER_01
But back then, I don t know if you re familiar with Jonathan Larson, who wrote, he was a composer.
2
SPEAKER_02
I don t know him, but I know him.
2
SPEAKER_01
But he passed away early on in our process.
2
SPEAKER_01
and it was a very emotional time for all of us and we all felt so committed to never missing a show because
2
SPEAKER_01
We just felt like our mission was to show up and communicate his message, you know?
2
SPEAKER_01
So for six months, not one of us missed a show.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was actually the first one, because the doctor ordered me to have voice rest.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I ve never had a cast do that ever again.
2
SPEAKER_01
I realized that that was very rare, that people wouldn t miss a show for six months.
2
SPEAKER_01
So that was a commitment.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that set a precedent, I think, for me.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s also because I have an ego and I don t want my understudy to go on all the time.
2
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, and the more people coming to see a show.
2
SPEAKER_01
with your name on the marquee, the more pressure you feel to be there.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, definitely.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s a lot of pressure.
2
SPEAKER_01
But you learn to pace yourself.
2
SPEAKER_01
What I like to say is I have an A, B, and a C show.
2
SPEAKER_01
So the A show is the one that has lots of acrobatic vocals and what I want to sing if I could all the time.
2
SPEAKER_01
The B and the C are melodies that are maybe not as hard, but people don t even notice the difference.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, we re not going to recognize it.
2
SPEAKER_01
So it s a psychological thing for me that I don t feel like I m failing if I don t get the A show.
2
SPEAKER_01
I just say, I have a cold, so go out there and do a really great B show today.
2
SPEAKER_01
Then the pressure s off and I end up having a great show.
2
SPEAKER_01
So a lot of it s mental.
2
SPEAKER_02
That s a great technique.
2
SPEAKER_02
I love that.
2
SPEAKER_02
I don t think I ve ever heard anyone say that before because I think people think that you only have two choices.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re either on or off.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God, I can t reach that note.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s like- Yeah, you re on or off.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
And that s actually not true.
2
SPEAKER_02
I love the ABC grading for anything in life because I don t think we re ever at our A game every single day.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s too much.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s not possible.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
And how many times do you realize you think you had the worst show, interview, whatever,
2
SPEAKER_01
someone comes and they had no idea what you re talking about.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s all that dialogue in your head that s sabotaging you.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
I went to public speaking and drama school since I was 11 years old.
2
SPEAKER_02
And public speaking is now the majority of my life.
2
SPEAKER_02
And so I know exactly when I think I messed a line up or didn t quite get that message across right and I ll be overanalyzing it.
2
SPEAKER_02
I used to do a lot more earlier days, but then you realize no one even noticed any percentage of that.
2
SPEAKER_02
But I love your ABC grading.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I wish I could do that with life.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, well, I think it s a good tool for life.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m hoping that everyone is just... Today I ll be an ABC mom.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m not going to get it all right, you know, today.
2
SPEAKER_01
And my son s going to be angry with me, but that s okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I m really hard on myself about that stuff.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m hard on myself in general.
2
SPEAKER_01
I d like to give myself a break.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
How did you... How do you think you were able to give yourself a break on stage?
2
SPEAKER_02
Because that s obviously, in one sense... I mean, I m sure, and I d love to hear this from a mother s perspective, but...
2
SPEAKER_02
And I don t want to assume either way, but I m guessing you may say that actually being a mother to one child is actually more pressure than performing in front of thousands of people.
2
SPEAKER_01
And when I became a mother, I found perspective.
2
SPEAKER_01
Obviously, I became less self-absorbed.
2
SPEAKER_01
I realized that my son has a fever tonight.
2
SPEAKER_01
I want to snuggle with him, take care of him.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t want to worry that
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t care if I get sick.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I got a big show tomorrow.
2
SPEAKER_01
What happens if I get strep throat or something?
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, it s too bad.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m not going to sleep in the other room.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s just not going to be.
2
SPEAKER_01
I just have to be with him.
2
SPEAKER_01
So then I d wake up the next day, didn t get a lot of sleep, worrying about my kid.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m on stage.
2
SPEAKER_01
What can I do?
2
SPEAKER_01
I m doing the best I can.
2
SPEAKER_01
I d have the best shows.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because I just lowered the expectations of myself and for myself.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s really, it changed my life in a lot of ways when you have something that you care about way more than yourself.
2
SPEAKER_03
When the Taliban banned music in Afghanistan, millions were plunged into silence.
2
SPEAKER_03
Radios were smashed, cassettes burned.
2
SPEAKER_03
You could be beaten or jailed or killed for breaking the rules.
2
SPEAKER_03
And yet, Afghans did it anyway.
2
SPEAKER_03
This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol.
2
SPEAKER_03
The danger they endured.
2
SPEAKER_05
They said my head should be cut off.
2
SPEAKER_03
The joy they brought to the nation.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re free completely.
2
SPEAKER_00
No one is there to destroy you.
2
SPEAKER_03
I m John Legend.
2
SPEAKER_03
Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_04
Guess what, Bango?
2
SPEAKER_04
What s up, Will?
2
SPEAKER_04
So iHeart is giving us a whole minute to promote our podcast, Part-Time Genius.
2
SPEAKER_05
I know, that s why I spent my whole week composing a haiku for the occasion.
2
SPEAKER_05
It s about my emotional journey in podcasting over the last seven years, and it s called Earthquake House.
2
SPEAKER_04
Mango, I m going to cut you off right there.
2
SPEAKER_04
Why don t we just tell people about our show instead?
2
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, that s a better idea.
2
SPEAKER_05
So every week on Part-Time Genius, we feed our curiosity by answering the world s most important questions.
2
SPEAKER_05
Things like, when did America start dialing 911?
2
SPEAKER_05
Is William Shatner s best acting work in Esperanto?
2
SPEAKER_05
Also, what happened to Esperanto?
2
SPEAKER_04
Plus, we cover questions like how Chinese is your Chinese food?
2
SPEAKER_04
How do dollar stores stay in business?
2
SPEAKER_04
And of course, is there an Illuminati of cheese?
2
SPEAKER_04
There absolutely is.
2
SPEAKER_05
And we are risking our lives by talking about it.
2
SPEAKER_05
But if you love mind-blowing facts, incredible history and really bad jokes, make your brains happy and tune in to Part-Time Genius.
2
SPEAKER_04
Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_00
Hey everyone, this is Molly and Matt and we re the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart Podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_04
It s a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone, and so much more.
3
SPEAKER_01
We re back with season two of the podcast, which means more opportunities to glow up and become a more responsible and better adult, one life lesson at a time.
3
SPEAKER_00
And let me just tell you, this show is just as much for us as it is for you.
3
SPEAKER_00
So let s figure this stuff out together.
3
SPEAKER_00
This season, we re going to talk about whether or not we re financially and emotionally ready for dog ownership.
3
SPEAKER_01
We re going to figure out the benefits of a high yield savings account.
3
SPEAKER_00
And what exactly are the duties of being a member of the wedding party?
3
SPEAKER_01
All that plus so much more.
3
SPEAKER_00
Let s learn about all of it and then some.
3
SPEAKER_00
Listen to Grown Up Stuff How to Adult on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
3
SPEAKER_03
What do you think it s going to take?
3
SPEAKER_03
I love what you said there, and I think everyone can relate to that.
3
SPEAKER_03
I think anyone who s listening right now, if you re a mother, you ll definitely feel it.
3
SPEAKER_03
If you re not a mother, you ll feel it.
3
SPEAKER_03
The idea of, I just need to be a bit easier on myself.
3
SPEAKER_03
I think most people are very self-critical.
3
SPEAKER_03
Most people who even come across as confident or even arrogant are often insecure and dealing with something internally.
3
SPEAKER_02
I m not an expert.
3
SPEAKER_02
No, not an expert.
3
SPEAKER_02
I m just intrigued as to how you think you re going to... Well, and I also, I m not ashamed to say, my publicist is here and she s probably like, don t say that, but I take, you know, Prozac and I have help and I, yeah, because there are some days where I just, I m, you know, people expect me to let it go and I can t, you know?
3
SPEAKER_02
So, I m doing the best that I can, but...
3
SPEAKER_02
being in the moment, being present, you know, is just the hardest thing to do.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s like what we aspire to do as artists, actors, singers to, you know, it s so weird because the greatest moments I have when I m performing are usually moments I can t even remember because I transcended in some way, you know, but that s not being present then, you know, and that,
3
SPEAKER_02
You know, you can meditate, you can do all these things, but it s trying to achieve just one moment where I felt like I m here in my body understanding this without judging myself, without criticizing.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so I don t have the answers.
3
SPEAKER_02
I just, I give myself things to try to stay in the moment, you know?
3
SPEAKER_02
Whether it s very clinical, just think about the lyrics, think about breathing, think about getting Walker to school tomorrow or focusing on the person in front of me and trying to change them and the scene or the song, you know.
3
SPEAKER_02
But sometimes it s just, it s really hard.
3
SPEAKER_02
I can t get out of there.
3
SPEAKER_02
And other days I can.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, but I think that ABC grading is, you ve already, you ve already come up with the perfect.
3
SPEAKER_02
I m getting the advice, but I have to walk the talk, walk the talk.
3
SPEAKER_03
No, but it s what you said beautifully.
3
SPEAKER_03
It s like, that s, that is the way we all need to think, how you started thinking about the stage.
3
SPEAKER_03
You know, think about our life that way.
3
SPEAKER_03
I think it s a great, it s a great method.
3
SPEAKER_02
I also have an incredible husband who was an actor.
3
SPEAKER_02
His life changed and he became, he s a clinical director of
3
SPEAKER_02
an inpatient facility out in California that has two houses, recovery, alcohol and drug recovery, and also mental illness.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so he thinks I m just like a piece of cake all the time, which is really nice to come home and think, he s like, what?
3
SPEAKER_02
That mood is fine, that s nothing, you know?
3
SPEAKER_02
So that s giving me some perspective too.
3
SPEAKER_02
He just thinks all my neuroses is like normal
3
SPEAKER_02
He can handle it.
3
SPEAKER_02
I m not too much for him.
3
SPEAKER_03
That s beautiful.
3
SPEAKER_03
That s really special.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, that s amazing.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, no, I mean, yeah, that s a beautiful thing to have in your life.
3
SPEAKER_03
And I think that s true for pretty much, I often think with relationships and with my wife,
3
SPEAKER_03
If I sat there, I could easily reel off reasons why I think she s annoying or frustrating or whatever it may be.
3
SPEAKER_03
That s easy.
3
SPEAKER_03
I think anyone could do that if they ve been long enough with someone.
3
SPEAKER_03
But if I stop to think about the things that are special about her and unique about her and the things that she does that no one else could do, all of a sudden, it s like all those other things seem so insignificant and irrelevant.
3
SPEAKER_03
And I think it s so easy to amplify those small, irrelevant... And like life is too short.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean, he gets on my nerves so much when we travel because I m traveling all the time.
3
SPEAKER_02
I know how to wear my...
3
SPEAKER_02
I don t wear shoes with laces.
3
SPEAKER_02
I get through the security.
3
SPEAKER_02
I know how to do it.
3
SPEAKER_02
If something changes, I can go get another flight.
3
SPEAKER_02
I m moving and grieving.
3
SPEAKER_02
He walks too slow.
3
SPEAKER_02
He doesn t have that aggressive traveling attitude.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I m like, ugh.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then I realize, why am I, you know, he s sweet.
3
SPEAKER_02
Why is this getting on my nerves?
3
SPEAKER_02
Life s too short, you know?
3
SPEAKER_02
When it comes down to it, he s an incredible father to my son.
3
SPEAKER_02
And he s there for me whenever I need him.
3
SPEAKER_02
And he really sees me, sees my soul.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so those little things are so silly.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_03
And I feel like we all pair up with someone who s exactly the other way.
3
SPEAKER_03
I m probably more like you in that sense, as you described that.
3
SPEAKER_03
I want to get to the airport three hours early and figure everything out.
3
SPEAKER_03
And like, I don t like rushing.
3
SPEAKER_03
I don t like being late.
3
SPEAKER_03
And my wife s like, you know, she s happy to run to the, what do you call it?
3
SPEAKER_03
The terminal, like run to the- The gate.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, the gate.
3
SPEAKER_03
Sorry, the gate.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, run to the gate.
3
SPEAKER_03
And I m like, I don t want to live like this.
3
SPEAKER_03
And she loves the pressure or whatever it may be.
3
SPEAKER_03
But I feel like we always pair up with people like that.
3
SPEAKER_03
With your dreams earlier, you said this, you re like, you know, dreams for the future.
3
SPEAKER_03
Like, what are the dreams now?
3
SPEAKER_03
Like, how have your dreams shifted, changed, or what s left?
3
SPEAKER_03
You said elusive.
3
SPEAKER_03
Some of the dreams are still elusive, you said.
3
SPEAKER_03
That was the word.
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, now talking to you, they seem so trivial.
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, professionally, there s things.
3
SPEAKER_02
I want to be a better performer, a better artist.
3
SPEAKER_02
I want to work with
3
SPEAKER_02
people that I ve always looked up to.
3
SPEAKER_02
I want to work with some more people like that that can teach me stuff.
3
SPEAKER_02
I want to create more original musicals.
3
SPEAKER_02
But my son is mixed.
3
SPEAKER_02
He identifies as black and I see him as a black 13-year-old boy, little man.
3
SPEAKER_02
That s kinda where a lot of my focus is, I think, lately, is I don t want my whiteness to be something that, I know people say, you re the mom, he s gonna love you, but he s super smart and intuitive, and there s gonna be things that I can t understand for him because I m not in his skin.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I find myself preoccupied with that a lot.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like, how can I be so close to him, be the one that he can come to for everything,
3
SPEAKER_02
If I can t totally understand all that because I just haven t lived it, how can I educate myself?
3
SPEAKER_02
How can I be better in that way?
3
SPEAKER_02
And as he s getting older, he s becoming more and more aware of the society that he lives in and the chaotic world he lives in, the violence.
3
SPEAKER_02
the racism, and I just want to be someone he can come to, you know?
3
SPEAKER_02
So I m probably overthinking a lot of that, but that s a lot where my energy goes to, just how can I really be better in that way for him?
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_03
I mean, I think my parents felt that way when I was a kid for different reasons completely, but mine was probably not as smart or as intuitive as your son sounds, but I was highly rebellious and I was getting involved in all the wrong places and circles and my parents didn t raise me that way.
3
SPEAKER_03
And they did everything right and they were loving and wonderful.
3
SPEAKER_02
Why were you pushing back?
3
SPEAKER_03
I think I ve always been a thrill seeker.
3
SPEAKER_03
I ve always deeply wanted a purpose.
3
SPEAKER_03
I didn t know that word at 13.
3
SPEAKER_03
I just thought thrill meant excitement and almost doing well in school and getting good grades didn t feel like enough.
3
SPEAKER_03
I was like, that can t be the goal of life to do well at school.
3
SPEAKER_03
That can t be it.
3
SPEAKER_02
You got to live.
3
SPEAKER_02
That s living.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_03
What does it mean to live?
3
SPEAKER_03
And I feel like it s really interesting because that age at least, and whenever I m working with someone or whenever I hear about that, I always feel like that s the age when kids kind of like start going off on their own journeys and their own directions.
3
SPEAKER_03
And one thing that my dad did that I think was a game changer, because I realized that at that point, no matter what my parents said, I wasn t going to listen to it, no matter what they said.
3
SPEAKER_02
That s part of your job, I d say.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, exactly.
3
SPEAKER_03
I think everyone who s been a child, everyone has that experience of, yeah, I didn t listen to my parents when I was 13.
3
SPEAKER_03
Then I think every parent has that experience of, my kids don t listen to me from 13 to 21 maybe.
3
SPEAKER_03
Then my dad started giving me books of people s lives, of people that he thought I d be inspired by based on my ambitions and my rebellion.
3
SPEAKER_03
Well, at that time, it started to be people like Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, and then later on, I read Einstein.
3
SPEAKER_03
Then I was also reading people that I was interested in as a 15-year-old kid like David Beckham.
3
SPEAKER_03
So I was into soccer or Dwayne The Rock Johnson because he was in WWE.
3
SPEAKER_03
So I was reading Malcolm X on one side and David Beckham on the other.
3
SPEAKER_03
It was really fascinating to me because it was almost like those people could talk to me at that time in a way that my parents couldn t.
4
SPEAKER_01
parents never could because they had lived experiences or things that for some reason, you know, connected with me and resonated with me in a way that even if my parents had the same things, it would never have connected.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I wonder, hence you writing a children s book, which is where my direction is going.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m fascinated by who the voice is your son needs to hear right now at this time in his life.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I don t know if it s mine.
4
SPEAKER_00
No, no, no.
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t think it ever is your parents.
4
SPEAKER_01
Not because our parents are wrong.
4
SPEAKER_01
There s that famous quote.
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t know who said it, but it s, the day you realize
4
SPEAKER_01
your parents were right, your kids are telling you that you re wrong.
4
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s one of those moments, like now I m so grateful to my parents that I can see everything.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m 35.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m like, okay, yeah, I value everything my parents did and they tried their best.
4
SPEAKER_01
But in those times, I find finding the voices of other people that feel like your voice to you, that he can hear it from someone else feels like
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, it feels like, I m wondering, this children s book, was that a way of communicating to, like, what was the purpose behind it?
4
SPEAKER_00
I want him to hear that message.
4
SPEAKER_00
My son s pretty confident.
4
SPEAKER_00
So I think the book comes from my interaction with so many young people.
4
SPEAKER_00
through all the projects that I ve been a part of, and it s multi-generational projects, you know, of really seeing lots of young people inhibit themselves and scorn their unique qualities.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I relate to that because that s how I was.
4
SPEAKER_00
My son s pretty sure of himself.
4
SPEAKER_00
So hopefully that s good.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, because I think we all as parents project
4
SPEAKER_00
you know, all the stuff that I need to work on in myself, when you have a kid, it comes like glaring back at you, you know?
4
SPEAKER_00
He s okay with the spotlight, you know?
4
SPEAKER_00
So I don t know if this book is necessarily written for him, to help him, because he teaches me.
4
SPEAKER_00
I, you know, I am, he said, he said, Mom, when I get my braces off and I go through puberty, this is gonna be no stopping me.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s awesome.
4
SPEAKER_00
He means that with the girls.
4
SPEAKER_00
He means that with basketball.
4
SPEAKER_00
He means that with everything.
4
SPEAKER_00
So it s like, I just need to take a lesson from my son, you know?
4
SPEAKER_00
So I think the book comes from, I wrote it with my sister, first of all, who I m very close to, Kara, and she s a teacher.
4
SPEAKER_00
an elementary school teacher, a writer, and also specialized in literacy at school.
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So I wanted to write it with her because she s a pro.
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And she understood me better than anyone else in the world understands me.
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She s the closest person to me.
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She s younger, but she s the wiser.
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She s the older soul.
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And it was the two of us writing this together because we experienced it as sisters.
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I was always loud and singing and taking up all this space.
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And she was always, am I supposed to know what I want to do at the age of seven?
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You know, I don t know what I want to do.
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And so we ve been really exploring all of those issues, I think.
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So that s more for those kids that are just a little bit hesitant to kind of
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allow people to see them, you know, and allow themselves to be vulnerable and take a risk.
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Yeah, that s fascinating.
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Yeah, I have a younger sister and we became, we re still extremely close.
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She s like my best friend.
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She knows everything about me and I know everything about her.
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She s, I almost treat her like a little child.
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She s only five years younger than me, but to me that s like, I remember holding her when I was five years old and she was this tiny little baby.
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Me too, I remember holding my sister.
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Yeah, it s one of those like, you know, very special memories of kind of seeing her grow up and feeling older, even though it wasn t old.
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But it s interesting, like I think with siblings, it s fascinating to hear that
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that difference also of being okay with one being loud and one being silent and noticing how neither of those are strengths or weaknesses, although I think it s often imprinted that someone who s loud is more confident and is more out there.
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Right, and that s totally a contradiction, at least in me.
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I mean, if you saw me
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at home I m actually kind of quiet and people that meet me they say oh you re actually really soft-spoken and so the big the girl with the big voice and singing to the rafters is definitely part of me but I think we all have these different sides and then
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My sister, who is very soft-spoken, she s the one that when I went to watch her teach, she was a TA back in Boulder at CU, and she didn t know what she wanted to do, and it was like some neuroscience classes, and she was a TA, and I sat in the back and watched her, and she was unbelievable, so charismatic, so on her voice.
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so engaging.
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The students loved her.
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And I said, this is your thing.
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You got to teach.
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So our voice emerges in many different ways.
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And I think it s a little bit a misconception that someone like me who knows how to produce loud sounds and hit the back row is necessarily comfortable in her own voice in my own life.
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Because especially given that mantle
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sing Let It Go to kids or Defy Gravity.
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It s like, oh, you know, I m not always that example.
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I mean, I have those days where I can t get out of bed myself, and I have to find my voice as well.
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It s so, I hate for people to think that there s this perception of me that I m fearless because I m not.
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Yeah, of course.
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And it sounds like this book is also a way of finding your voice because you re playing so many other voices.
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Yes.
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Well, there s, yeah, I mean, it s autobiographical in a too little mouse, too little mice way.
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I love that you chose a mouse to represent.
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Yeah, because the mouse is so small, but when she sings, the joy and the sound of her voice, when she decides to share it with the class instead of just keeping it to herself at home,
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she ends up becoming a huge, huge, huge mount.
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And now everybody can see her and hear her.
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And that invites a lot of scrutiny, a lot of accolades, but a lot of different things, you know?
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And that s, I think that s what happens with all of us when we allow ourselves to be seen.
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Yeah, I m always finding, I m always intrigued by people who play lots of voices.
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And as you said, like, I think everyone s always searching for their voice in life because
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They forget that their early voice was so informed by their parents, and then their later voice was so informed by friends.
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Our voice is just always a mix of other people s noise.
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And then, I wonder for you, do you ever feel like...
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you ve rubbed off on the voices of your characters, your characters  voices rub off on you.
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Like, I m always fascinated by people who play people for a living, like how that... That s what I was saying before, chicken or the egg, how much am I bringing to something that then the writers are inspired by what I m bringing, and how much is the part sort of finding me?
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Which characters do you think rubbed off the most on you in a...
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And each one was like a gift at the time, you know, like the rent stuff was really, it was a celebration.
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That character was unafraid, sexy, funny, just an excuse for me to really be all those things.
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And then when Wicked came along, I was definitely more insecure and needing to sort of
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allow myself to not be afraid of my own anger and my larger than life qualities, you know?
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So that one was really art imitating life, you know?
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So different things, I don t know, the voice.
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Yeah, no, those are beautiful, I love those.
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Yeah, no, those are wonderful.
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It s just so much, yeah, it s so much more, when you re playing someone deeply, it s so much more deeper than just,
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Oh yeah, they re a character, right?
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And then you live with them for how many shows a year?
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Yeah, well, that s even more than a movie, right?
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Like, even more than a TV show or a movie.
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It s like, this character s what, eight shows a year?
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Yeah, and I ve had two instances now with Rent the Movie.
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We did it 10 years after I left the show.
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And then I have this sequel to Enchanted, Disenchanted, coming out now.
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And that s 15 years later.
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And it s kind of fun to revisit a character years later because it s just you see how life has informed who you are and how you approach the character now.
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I find it really fascinating.
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to go back and see that.
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I threw caution to the wind a lot.
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I didn t have as much process when I was younger.
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I just kind of like was raw and in the moment and spontaneous and in the moment.
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But the older I got, I ve been getting the less in the moment I am because the more you re aware of how
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far you can fall, you know, and you get in your head.
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So, I don t know.
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Yeah.
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What s something that you feel you used to value that you don t value anymore?
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Something that was important to you that s become less and less important?
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Hmm.
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I was going to say being liked, but having people caring about what people think, but I think I still care about what people think.
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We all do.
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Yeah.
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When I was asked this question, and that s where I started to involve in my interviews, and it was probably one of the only questions that made me stop and think, like you had to.
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You know, most questions, you re just talking.
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My answer to it in the moment, without thinking about it in like seven seconds of thinking about it, was being understood.
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I think I realized that 99% of the world would never be able to understand anyone fully.
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I don t think it s actually possible.
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And I think the pressure we put on ourselves to try to understand someone fully
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rushes the process of understanding them half.
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And so that feeling of, oh, I understand you.
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We just want to be able to say that.
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And we want to be able to say that so quickly.
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So I was saying about my son.
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I will never be able to be all those things to him.
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I live in a white woman s body and my background and where I ve come from.
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And just because he came from my womb doesn t get me.
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the carte blanche to understand his emotion, you know?
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So that s very frustrating for me, and I need to just accept that, you know?
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Yeah, and accepting it just, yeah, I think for me, it was like, I realized that even if someone does understand you, they won t understand you in the way you want them to understand you, right?
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Even in wanting to be understood, like, you re talking about trying to understand someone else, but even, I think, all of us crave to be understood when we say something.
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That s what I m saying, really seeing, like, someone really gets me.
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Exactly.
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And I ve found even the people that really get me.
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That you don t really, really get.
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They get me, they do.
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My closest friends really get me.
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But even then, there s a part of you that only you get.
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No one will ever know.
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And no one will ever know.
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And being at peace with that has been very good for me.
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If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
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It would just be to mind your own business.
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Stop worrying about what other people are doing and live your own life.
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That s a great one.
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I love that.
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Idina and Madzel, everyone, if you have been listening or watching, thank you so much for tuning in.
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Make sure you share what you learned, what you took away, any reflections, any questions that you ve had.
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Tag us both on Instagram, on TikTok, on Twitter, all the platforms there.
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You know that we re on right now.
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And of course, the book, Loud Mouse, is available.
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We re going to put the link in the show notes so you can order it as well.
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You can read along.
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I know I m going to be ordering a ton of copies for all my nieces and nephews.
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You are?
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Oh, thank you.
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And there s a refrain in it.
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So there s a song I wrote that goes along with that.
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I love that.
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And you don t have to sing it like me.
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I definitely will not sing it.
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Sing it however you sing it.
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I just gave you a little start.
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I don t sing.
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I definitely don t see it, but I ll be ordering the book for my nieces and nephews to share it with them as well.
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I know that.
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It s probably one of my favorite things to do is to sit down and read a children s book with a child.
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And I don t have kids of my own yet, but when I do it with nieces and nephews or, you know, my godson, it s like one of the most fun bonding experiences.
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I look forward to that.
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It s beautiful.
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Thank you, Irina.
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Thank you so much.
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Thank you.
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If you love this episode, you ll enjoy my conversation with Meghan Trainor on breaking generational trauma and how to be confident from the inside out.
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My therapist told me stand in the mirror naked for five minutes.
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It was already tough for me to love my body, but after the C-section scar with all the stretch marks, now I m looking at myself like I ve been hacked.
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But day three when I did it, I was like, you know what?
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Her thighs are cute.
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Guess what, Will?
5
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What s up, Mango?
5
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I ve been trying to write a promo for our podcast, Part-Time Genius, but even though we ve done over 250 episodes, we don t really talk about murders or cults.
5
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I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese, so I feel like that makes us pretty edgy.
5
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We also solve mysteries like how Chinese is your Chinese food and how do dollar stores make money?
5
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And then, of course, can you game a dog show?
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So what you re saying is everyone should be listening.
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Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.