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Our episodes are packed with fun activities.
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We went shape hunting around the block, and we found spheres and cubes on the street.
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At one of the most famous restaurants in the world, there s a table in the corner where the most incredible conversations on the planet are happening every week with owner Ruthie Rogers and amazing guests like Martha Stewart.
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But I did have an affair with one of his best friends.
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Jimmy Fallon.
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Do you want a zip line over your dad while he gets attacked by alligators?
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And Paul McCartney.
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John and I hitchhiked to Paris.
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We ve saved you a seat.
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Ruthie s Table 4.
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Listen to Ruthie s Table 4 on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
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The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is your space to explore mental health, personal development, and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
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I m your host, Dr. Joy Harden-Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia, and I can t wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday.
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Listen to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Take good care and we ll see you there.
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So this idea that your weight determines your worth is a lie, and it is a lie that is impacting so many of us.
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Right now, as we speak, 89% of girls and women will opt out of meaningful activities, including interacting with friends or loved ones when they don t like how they look.
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And self-doubt will kill more dreams than almost anything else.
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Don t wait on your weight to live your best life.
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Hey everyone, I ve got some huge news to share with you.
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Subscribe right now.
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Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come back to to listen, learn, and grow.
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I am so excited because today s guest is a guest who s on for her second time, but thankfully this time in person.
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Last time we recorded
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I believe it was during the pandemic, we were doing virtual interviews.
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I m so glad we re not doing those anymore.
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I m talking about my dear friend, Jamie Kern Lima, a New York Times bestselling author, founder of It Cosmetics, a company she started in her living room and sold to L Oreal in a billion dollar deal, becoming the first female CEO of a brand in its 100 year history.
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Jamie is also an active philanthropist who has funded leadership training in more than 100 prisons and shelters across the United States and has donated over $40 million in product and funds to help women face the effects of cancer with confidence.
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Jamie is donating 100% of her author proceeds of her new book, worthy to charity as well, How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life.
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Simple Steps, Life-Changing Results.
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This is the book that I want you to go and grab.
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Order it right now.
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The book is available as we speak.
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Please welcome to the show, the author of Worthy, Jamie Kern-Lima.
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Jamie, thank you for being here.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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I am excited.
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This is going to be an amazing episode.
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I know, I just want to tell people.
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Just so you know, Jamie arrived an hour ago and we ve spent an hour just chatting and hanging out and I love it because I always love spending time with you.
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We became friends through a mutual friend, Brennan Burchard, a few years ago.
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And I ve always loved connecting with you, learning from you, hearing about how you have these divine downloads, as you call them, and how you channel in your work.
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And I remember when you actually told me, when you were divinely downloading this book,
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And I wanted to start off by, there s so many things I want to talk about in the book, but the thing that s calling me to start with is, do you feel worthy today?
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Our self-worth is our ceiling in every area of life.
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And Jay, I have to tell you, for the longest time in my life, I believed this lie that if I achieve enough, I will finally feel enough.
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And right now I can tell you I feel more worthy than I ever have.
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But it is a daily, it is a daily practice.
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It s a daily intention.
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And for anyone who is with us right now listening, watching, who s ever had a goal, like a big goal or a dream, and they thought, you know, once I finally get that thing, then I m going to feel enough and happy and fulfilled.
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And then you get that thing and maybe you worked for like a week or a month or several years, and then you get it and you re like, happy for a while, but you re like, why do I still feel like something s missing?
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Or like, I m not enough.
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And that was me most of my entire life.
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And usually when that happens, we think, oh, I ve just got to work harder.
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I ve just got to level up and hustle more and get the next thing and the next thing.
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And so I spent, oh my gosh.
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decades of my life, kind of as an achiever, but deep down inside not feeling like I was enough.
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Yet I thought I would solve that by doing all these things on the outside that the world told me makes you enough.
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And what s wild is even after
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not to like jump way ahead, but even after achieving some of these things that the days I was a Denny s waitress, I could not have imagined selling my company for a $1.2 billion cash, right?
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Or becoming the first CEO of, you know, a brand in L Oreal s history, any of those things.
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I couldn t have imagined those happening.
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And yet I found myself in a moment in my life where I was achieving all of these things and still feeling like I wasn t enough.
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And here s the thing.
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What I learned the hard way is when we achieve all these things, we build a lot of self-confidence, which is really important, but none of them build self-worth, which is different.
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And when we have a lot of confidence, when we re crushing it on the outside,
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But deep down inside, we don t feel like we re enough.
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It will show up in our lives.
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And it may not show up in our career.
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It might show up in our relationships.
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It might not show up in different areas.
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And I found myself in this moment in time where I was so confident, and all these things were going right, and I had put decades of hard work.
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And I still didn t feel like I was enough, and I was still sabotaging things in my life.
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And it was really only three years ago where there was a big moment that happened in my life with Oprah, actually, where I realized, oh my gosh, I am so confident, but I actually have a lot of self-confidence, but I actually don t have a lot of self-worth.
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And they re very different.
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And our self-worth is our ceiling, and it s why
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Even if we arrive at that goal, whether it s like a career thing or getting married and having kids or finally getting a six pack abs or, you know, whatever the things we, you still take you with you, which is why you still arrive there.
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And you re like, why do I still feel like I m not enough?
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And as you and I are talking, 80% of women don t believe they re enough.
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73% of men feel inadequate and not enough, right?
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And then you look at other areas of life, 75% of women deal with imposter syndrome, more than 50% of men deal with it.
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When we believe we are not enough,
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As we are, A, it is a lie.
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It is a lie, but it impacts almost every area of our life.
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So a big reason why I wrote Worthy is because I realized, oh my goodness, like in life, we don t become what we want.
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We become what we believe we re worthy of.
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And that is the thing.
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Our self-worth is our ceiling.
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And so it s really a book about, you know, believe that my first book was my story of learning to believe in myself.
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And Worthy is really like a playbook.
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Like, how do you believe in you?
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It s packed with over 20 tools on it, on building self-worth.
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And it s just the one thing, because it s the identity level.
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Like our self-confidence is, is really important, but it s, it s an internal trait, but it s based so much on the external on like our willingness to try and go for it.
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You know, how we feel we stack up and compare to others and how much of the world s definition of success we have, if we re winning or losing.
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And they show, you know, studies show the boxer who wins the fight is automatically 30% more confident.
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Our confidence is really important.
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It s an important part of our life, but it s fragile.
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It fluctuates.
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You know, our self-worth is different.
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It s that deep internal knowing and belief that we are worthy of love and belonging exactly as we are.
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Not as our past mistakes or failures or regrets, not as our future successes, but like innately and exactly as we are.
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And a lot of people worry, well, if I believed I was enough as I am, will I lose my ambition?
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Will I lose my edge?
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And it s like, oh no, you actually become more ambitious.
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Because when you learn to believe you are enough exactly as you are, you become fearless about going for things.
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Because even if you fail, or fall flat on your face, or you re embarrassed, or it doesn t go well, that might shake your confidence.
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But it cannot touch your self-worth.
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Because your self-worth is your identity.
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It s your foundation.
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Our self-confidence is the house with all the rooms and the art that we re building in our life, which is so important.
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But our self-worth is the foundation under it.
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And our house is only ever as stable and secure as that foundation.
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So yeah, I have been obsessed with self-worth, with building it.
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It is just the one thing that changes everything.
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And for most of us, like we can go into this if you want, but there s like three main areas that shows up in our life when we re struggling with it.
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So, um, but I m really passionate about it.
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Yeah.
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I love it.
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I love the distinction you just made between confidence and self-worth.
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Yeah.
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because I think we often get those two confused so often and we feel if I m confident then nothing else matters and we re chasing confidence and you shared some of these just now but when I read this it really hit me and it s on the first page of the book so you can t miss it but I m just going to share this if you don t mind because I looked at these stats and it just was like a punch in the gut when I read it because I was like this really hit me so listen to this this is Reading from Worthy by Jamie Ken Lima page one it says
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For the 80% of women who don t believe they re enough, the 75% of female executives who deal with imposter syndrome, and the 91% of girls and women who don t love their bodies.
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For the 73% of men who feel inadequate, and the 100% of men who come from a woman and likely have at least one girl or woman in their lives whom they care about.
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When you believe you re fundamentally not enough and unworthy as a person, it s a lie.
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The time to unlearn that lie has come.
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Together, let s leave no girl, no woman, no person left behind in knowing they are worthy. 
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Oh, wow.
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Like, when I read that, I was like,
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Those stats just put it into perspective because I think we often think of feeling worthy or self-worth as kind of like this soft thing.
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Right.
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And all of a sudden you read the statistics on it and you think, but wait a minute, we re all dealing with this, like in some way, in some area of our life.
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And exactly what you said, we, and me, most of my whole life, I thought self-confidence and self-worth were the same thing.
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So when we re struggling with not feeling enough, and maybe so many people listening to us right now have, you know, all of this stuff on the outside that everyone tells you should make you feel enough, and it s because we re all confusing.
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We think we just need more self-confidence.
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But what we really need is more self-worth, and they re so different.
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But we try to solve our feelings of not-enoughness with things that just build self-confidence.
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But none of them build self-worth, and they re so different.
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Like so many people think they need more self-confidence, which is important, but it s so, so, so different.
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For self-worth, if someone s listening to us right now and they re like, oh, wait a minute, is this why I don t feel fulfilled?
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Or is this why I feel like it s never, I m never enough?
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For self-worth, I m just getting so fired up, I want to jump out of your chair.
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But it shows up for so many of us.
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Like you look at those numbers, it s like, oh my gosh, three ways it shows up.
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So if we have low self-worth, right?
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And again, you can be crushing it on the outside, and you can be hiding this really well.
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But if you have low self-worth, for a lot of us, it looks like we re stuck, and we don t know why.
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We re stuck, and we don t know why.
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And we tell ourselves, like, for example, maybe we know we want to write a book, or we want to share our ideas at work, or we want to put our art out into the world, or we want to find a life partner, but we re not putting ourselves on the dating app.
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or we re not going out and socializing, or we re not raising our hand and sharing our idea on the Zoom call, or we haven t written the first word of our book.
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And we tell ourselves stories like, oh, I just need more experience, or I need to get more skill sets, or all these reasons why we re stuck.
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And they may be true.
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But what a lot of us don t realize is the reason we re stuck is because deep down inside, we actually don t believe we re worthy of the thing.
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And that will keep you stuck all day long and not knowing why, because again, your self-worth is your ceiling, right?
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And we don t soar to the level of our goals and dreams.
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We stay stuck at the level of our self-worth every time.
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And that s really how low self-worth often shows up.
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And then when you have a low to medium self-worth, what that looks like, maybe a lot of people listening can identify with this,
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It looks like you ll go for the thing, like you ll put yourself out there, but then you ll either hit a ceiling, a plateau, and you re trying for a breakthrough and you don t know why.
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Like maybe you want to grow your follower count, you want to grow your business to six figures, but you re hitting a ceiling at five figures and you don t know why you can t break past it.
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Or, or you ll go for it, but you ll sabotage it.
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You ll go for it and you ll sabotage it along the way.
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You ll meet a potential partner and you ll be like, they re amazing.
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And then you somehow are attracted to them and you put them in the friend zone.
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Or you ll write the book and then you won t send it out.
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Like you ll go for the thing, but you ll stop it because deep down inside, you don t believe you re worthy of it.
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And the third most common way, and this is for people who are ambitious or achievers.
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This is very, very common.
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This is me a lot of my life.
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You ll go for the thing and you ll actually make it happen.
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You ll actually achieve it.
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You ll actually, but you arrive at it.
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still feeling like something s missing, still feeling like it s not enough, still feeling like you re not enough.
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And so you feel unfulfilled.
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And then you think I ve just got to achieve more and more and more and more and more.
1
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And the most beautiful part about building self-worth is that you realize, okay, I am, which this is the truth, Jay.
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Every single person listening to us right now, this is the most beautiful part.
1
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Every one of us, I do not care.
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your past mistakes, your past failures, what you think you got wrong, who you think you hurt that you wish you didn t, any of that.
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And I don t care how much success you have.
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None of that matters.
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Every person right now is fully, fully worthy, exactly as you are.
1
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And this journey isn t about learning some stuff you got to do to be worthy.
1
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This is about
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unlearning the lies that lead to self-doubt, and then igniting those truths that wake up worthiness in us.
1
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And that is the part I m most excited about when I m jumping out of my chair, because when I think about everybody listening,
1
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When I think about everyone listening and watching you and I right now, the moment you learn to believe you are worthy, oh my gosh, that is the moment where it feels like breakthrough.
1
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It feels like joy.
1
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It tastes like freedom.
1
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It s the moment when unhealthy relationships end.
1
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It s the moment when you put your dreams and ideas out there no matter how they are received.
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It s the moment you share your ideas.
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It s the moment businesses are launched.
1
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Yeah, I m so passionate about this because, and I talk about this in Worthy a lot, that in life, in life, in our relationships, in our friendships, in our hopes and dreams, that we don t rise to what we believe is possible, right?
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And it s hard to believe things are possible, but even then, we don t rise to what we believe is possible.
1
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We still fall to what we believe we re worthy of.
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it is that one thing at an identity level that we will always return to and, and building it is everything.
1
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So yeah.
1
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Have you ever had a guest jump out of your chair before?
1
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No, it comes across
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And I m glad that you raised that because what I wanted to do with you, which I think would be really important, which was what resonated so strongly with me about your book, was these lies.
1
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Like as I sat here and I read through the lies, I was just like, I ve told myself that one, I ve told myself that one, I ve told myself that one, I ve told myself that one.
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And I think our community who s listening to On Purpose right now or watching will definitely feel like these lies are relatable.
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So I d love to dive into some of them.
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that really stick out to me and I love that you ve made it about unlearning lies rather than building self-worth because it almost feels so hard to be like well how do I build myself
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worth, but when you recognize that actually we re trying to extract and excavate through all of these lies, it makes a lot of sense.
2
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So let s start with, I want to start, and we re not going to go through all of them because I want you guys to read the book, but I m going to pick out a couple that I, that really resonated with me.
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The first one that really resonated with me was of course, don t wait on your weight.
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The lie, my weight impacts my worth.
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This has been conditioned deeply into society and into culture that their weight impacts their worth.
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Everyone, even if they don t say it, subconsciously feels it in some way or another.
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There s comparison, there s envy, there s images that are put in front of you about what you should be aiming for and what you should be.
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Walk us through that personally and in how we unlearn that.
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The lie, your weight determines your worth, has cost so many of us so much in our life, believing that lie.
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And I talk a lot about this idea of don t wait on your weight to live your best life.
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And this is a whole chapter in Worthy, like you said, I go into all these lies and how do you unlearn them.
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And this chapter is not about your weight.
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It s about if you ve been waiting,
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on your weight to live your best life.
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Or, by the way, the weight of expectations, other people s expectations or your own.
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What weight are you letting hold you down?
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So this idea that your weight determines your worth is a lie, and it is a lie that is impacting so many of us right now as we speak, 89%.
2
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89% of girls and women will opt out of meaningful activities, including interacting with friends or loved ones when they don t like how they look.
2
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And Jay, most of my life, I believed this lie.
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Even when I was crushing it by all other measures, I still, even when I built a company that was inspiring and does inspire millions and millions and millions of people to embrace who they are, I was still believing this lie that my weight determined my worth.
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And I was still waiting on my weight for that.
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the big way to overcome this lie, because first of all, it is a lie.
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Second of all, for anyone who has hit fitness goals or hit weight goal, they know you still arrive at that goal and you still don t feel in that.
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It does not change who you are, right?
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Because it is an external thing that can fluctuate confidence, but it does not impact your worth.
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That s the first thing.
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No matter what your weight is or isn t, it is irrelevant to your self-worth and understanding that s really, really important.
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But then how to break free of this lie is to flip it on its head.
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which is what happened to me in my life.
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And as human beings, as you know, we re wired to avoid pain at all costs.
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And we think, oh, if I, you know, we re waiting on our weight to, to live our best lives.
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And we think, oh, because I m not what I think I need to look like, I m going to skip out on the event.
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I m not going to go to the party.
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We re going to apply for the job.
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I m not going to apply for the job.
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I m not going to put myself out in the dating world until I m this or that.
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I m going to stand in the back of the photo, right?
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I m not going to live my best life.
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And because I think I attach pain to that, I attach the pain of, oh, I might be judged.
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If I go out in a swimsuit, oh, I might get disapproval.
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I might be all of these things.
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And so we hide.
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When you flip this around, and this is for everyone listening right now, and this impacts men in a huge way too, as well as women, but the numbers are just staggering.
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But when you flip it around and go, well, wait a minute, what has waiting on my weight already cost me in my life?
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That, that pain of the regret, when we flip it around and think of it that way, that pain is far more painful than, well, what happens if I m judged at a party?
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And in my life, I spent decades like telling myself, oh, nothing fits.
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I m just not going to go.
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I m just going to miss out on this.
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And it was having my daughter.
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And I remember this moment, Jay, I was at a public hotel, lots of people there, people I knew were there.
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And my daughter was one years old and going to go swimming for the first time.
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And I was literally on the side of the pool.
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I looked so cute, but I was covered up, covered up in a, I had a swimsuit, but I was covered up, covered up, covered up, sunglasses, all the things.
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And I was like, I m just going to watch my husband take her and swim.
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And I had this moment where I m like, I know why I m going to sit here and watch.
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I m about to miss out on the first moment my daughter s going to swim.
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because I am still waiting on my weight to live my best life.
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And when I looked at what has this already cost me, the memories, the joy, all of it, right?
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And I also realized me doing this is actually me telling her she is not worthy of her body, right?
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And I m like,
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The pain of that is far more.
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And that was the moment I literally took my cover up off.
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I walked over to the pool in front of everyone.
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I shook my cellulite with joy, like jiggled my cellulite with joy, Jay Shetty.
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And I got right in the pool.
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I swam with my daughter, Wonder.
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And I m like, I m done.
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I am done waiting on my weight.
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And here s the thing, y all.
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First of all, no one cares.
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You know what I mean?
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Even people at a really high profile, at the end of the day, it cannot impact your worth.
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And to unlearn this lie, the most important thing, first of all, is to realize it has been a lie impacting you.
2
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And then to go, wow, okay, let me really understand the difference between self-worth and self-confidence, and understanding the difference, and then understanding, okay, this lies impacting my self-confidence.
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It doesn t touch my worth, but it is impacting my self-confidence.
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Now, how do I unlearn it there?
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How do I unlearn it?
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And this is how you unlearn it.
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And I go deep into how to do this in the book, because when we can reframe a lie and believe, and not only associate more pain with believing it than with just going for it, that s when as human beings, we ll go for it.
2
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The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is an NAACP and Webby Award winning podcast dedicated to all things mental health, personal development, and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
2
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Here, we have the conversations that help Black women decipher how their pasts inform who they are today.
2
SPEAKER_04
and use that information to decide who they want to be moving forward.
2
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We chat about things like how to establish routines that center self-care, what burnout looks and feels like, and defining what aspects of our lives are making us happy and what parts are holding us back.
2
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I m your host, Dr. Joy Harden-Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia.
2
SPEAKER_04
And I can t wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday.
2
SPEAKER_04
Listen to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_04
Take good care, and we ll see you there.
2
SPEAKER_03
Get emotional with me, Radhi Devlukia, in my new podcast, A Really Good Cry.
2
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We re going to talk about and go through all the things that are sometimes difficult to process alone.
2
SPEAKER_03
We re going to go over how to regulate your emotions, diving deep into holistic personal development, and just building your mindset to have a happier, healthier life.
2
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We re going to be talking with some of my best friends.
2
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I didn t know we were going to go there.
2
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people that I admire.
2
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When we say listen to your body, really tune in to what s going on.
2
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Authors of books that have changed my life.
2
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Now you re talking about sympathy, which is different than empathy.
2
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And basically have conversations that can help us get through this crazy thing we call life.
2
SPEAKER_03
I already believe in myself.
2
SPEAKER_03
I already see myself.
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SPEAKER_03
And so when people give me an opportunity, I m just like,
2
SPEAKER_03
Oh great, you see me too!
2
SPEAKER_03
We ll laugh together, we ll cry together, and find a way through all of our emotions.
2
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Never forget, it s okay to cry, as long as you make it a really good one.
2
SPEAKER_03
Listen to A Really Good Cry with Radhi Devlukia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_00
Tune in to the new podcast, Stories from the Village of Nothing Much.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like easy listening, but for fiction.
2
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If you ve overdosed on bad news, we invite you into a world where the glimmers of goodness in everyday life are all around you.
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I m Katherine Nicolai, and you might know me from the Bedtime Story podcast, Nothing Much Happens.
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I m an architect of cozy, and I invite you to come spend some time where everyone is welcome and kindness is the default.
2
SPEAKER_00
When you tune in, you ll hear stories about bakeries and walks in the woods, a favorite booth at the diner on a blustery autumn day, cats and dogs, unrescued goats and donkeys, old houses, bookshops.
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SPEAKER_00
Beaches where kites fly and pretty stones are found.
3
SPEAKER_00
I have so many stories to tell you and they are all designed to help you feel good and feel connected to what is good in the world.
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Listen, relax, enjoy.
3
SPEAKER_00
Listen to stories from the village of nothing much on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Now, I think that question that you asked is huge.
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That question of what has it cost me?
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And to think that you could have
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never had that experience with your daughter, who is adorable, but like to have that moment with her.
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Do you remember, do you remember, I m going to share this moment with you.
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So we were at an airport together and my daughter, the first time she met Jay, she walks up to you and she calls you dad.
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She s adorable as well.
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So I was like, I ll take it.
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I ll take it.
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She s so cute.
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She s really shy.
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She just walks right up to you and calls you dad.
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I m like, what s happening right now?
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It s so funny.
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I love it.
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I remember my husband, Paula comes up and I m like, Paula, I promise you don t worry.
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She s so cute and it s like to think I love that question because I think it s really practical for everyone listening and watching right now to ask yourself what is it already cost you and what is it going to cost you that memory with your child yes that potential job that fulfills your dream that great memory with friends that whatever it may be like we re all missing out on something because of that and that is such a great just that one question just that question
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And I know we re going to dive into some of the lies.
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This whole book, when, when, when, oh my gosh, Jay, this is the thing when you ask yourself, what is self doubt already cost you in your life?
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Right?
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And then you look at it from that perspective.
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And a lot of us, we spend so much time building skill sets and this, and those are important.
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You know, you and I, you and I was talking about, it s important to put in the reps and get the experience and all the things.
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but also learning how to unlearn the lies that lead to self-doubt.
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Oh my gosh.
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Because again, our self-worth is our ceiling.
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And so just it s so powerful.
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Yeah.
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And we ve had that doubting voice, whether it s come through teachers, family members, whether it s come through your friend at school, whatever it was, we ve all
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adopted doubting voices over time and now we replay them to ourselves in our own voice and we think they re us when in fact they ve just been conditioned and trained.
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Yes, and self-doubt will kill more dreams than almost anything else, like literally.
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And it is a lie, right?
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And self-doubt lives in our head.
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It s our thoughts, but it is not you.
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It is not you.
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And it s like our knowing, our truth, our worthiness.
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I feel like it s in our soul.
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It s innate.
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I remember a moment, Jay, where
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My whole life, I, as a little girl, I would sit there home alone and I d watch Oprah and she was like my hero, right?
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And I dreamed of meeting her one day.
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So for everyone listening, maybe you had a, like a, maybe your hero was Superman or like we all have different, I dreamed of meeting her.
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I d watch her and I m like, one day I m going to host a show and share other people s stories with the world.
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And she was just my, my hero my whole life.
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And I remember this moment as a little girl where I m like, I m going to meet her.
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I just had this knowing I m going to meet her, which made no sense.
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I m in the middle of a suburb of Washington State.
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Like, I m going to meet her.
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I just knew it.
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And I dared to believe it was going to happen.
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I dared.
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I prayed it would happen.
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Fast forward 39 years.
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When I had a chance to meet her at an event, which is the long story I won t go into, it was amazing.
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And then after it went by so fast, I wrote her a letter after and sent it to her chief of staff, which is one in a billion that she would read, that the chief of staff would read it.
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Amy was her name.
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Then one in a billion, she would share it.
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Then one in a billion, Oprah would read it.
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All those things happened.
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And Oprah invited me to her house for lunch.
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And I m sharing this because everyone listening, I think, is going to have an aha in their own life with how we handle and how we sabotage things we don t believe we re worthy of.
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And now this was my dream my whole life.
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And I went to her house for lunch, which is like, what in the world, right?
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And we had a three-hour lunch, just me and her.
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At the very end, this is my lifelong dream.
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At the very end of it, she gave me her cell phone number and she said, call me anytime.
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You can call me anytime.
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And Jay, in this moment in my life, and I just want everyone to put themselves in these shoes, because we all do this, I was really confident.
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I did not know there was a big difference between self-confidence and self-worth.
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And everything was going right in my life, right?
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Like, I just sold a cosmetics for all this money, like the Forbes list, all these things.
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And I was really confident.
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And the day she gave me her number, I did not call her for four years.
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literally didn t call her for four years.
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And in that four year stretch, I told myself stories that I thought were true.
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Like, oh, I just need to have the perfect thing to say.
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Then I m going to call her or I bet everyone wants something from her.
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I m going to prove I don t need anything.
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I m not, you know, I tell myself.
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And literally four years later, it hit me like this light bulb that burst where I was like, the real reason I have not called her was because deep down inside, I didn t believe I was worthy of being her friend.
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And this is what self-worth, low self-worth will do to you.
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You can have a lot of confidence.
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You could be crushing it everywhere, but you sabotage an opportunity.
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You sabotage your marriage.
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You sabotage a friendship.
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It shows up in different areas.
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And that was the day, you reminded me of the story because we were talking about our thoughts and our self-doubt.
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That was the day when this happened and I realized it.
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I literally, I imagine myself turning down the dial, like almost like a volume dial of a radio, of my thoughts and my self-doubt that says, you are not worthy of being her friend.
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And I imagine like turning up the volume on my soul, like my knowing, because I am a kick-ass friend.
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I know I am worthy of being her or anyone.
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I am such a good friend.
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And I know that.
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And I remember turning the volume up on that knowing.
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And that was the moment I called her.
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When I learned to turn down the volume on the lies that tell us we are not enough and unworthy and like tune into our soul and to our knowing.
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And that was the day I called her.
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At first I called her.
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She did not answer.
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Oh my gosh, four years, and she didn t answer.
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But then I called again and she did.
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And that was the day I became obsessed with studying self-worth because I realized, oh my gosh, while self-confidence is so important, while I ve worked so hard and I m so proud and I believe we always need to be building self-confidence and growing and contributing something bigger than ourselves to feel fulfillment, all of those things are multiplied by our level of self-worth.
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And anything times zero is zero.
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So if we do not feel we are enough deep down, it is why we will be perpetually unfulfilled no matter how much we achieve.
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And what is the point of all of it if we are unfulfilled and don t enjoy it?
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And so became obsessed with studying self-worth.
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And I just think about how, you know, I taught a course with her this last year and now it s, and it almost didn t happen.
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And when I think about what does self-doubt already cost you, like for everyone listening and watching us right now, what hasn t happened?
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Like I almost so many times, Jade, doubted myself out of my own destiny, right?
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And like, this is why building self-worth is so important.
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I m a little passionate about, about Worthy, the book.
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I love it.
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No, but you, you have a chapter in here called change your relationship with rejection.
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Yes.
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And I think what s really interesting about that is that rejection
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is a reminder that we don t have self-worth, right?
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That s the root of why it hurts so much, is because when someone rejects us, it reminds us of how we ve been rejecting ourself time and time and time and time again.
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We haven t showed up for ourself.
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We haven t lived our authentic self.
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We have rejected ourself.
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And so when someone rejects that part of us, it causes so much pain.
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So when you re telling us to change your relationship with rejection, how does one even start?
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Because I think whether someone s trying to become an actor, whether someone s trying to get a job, whether someone s trying to find a partner, rejection is almost the path.
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Yes.
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But we don t always see it that way.
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Yes.
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And I love what you just said, which is so insightful.
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Every single time we show up inauthentically too, every time we re not who we are, every time we show up as our representative in a room or the people pleaser and we say yes when we mean no or
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Anytime we show up as someone who we think other people want us to be, but not as who we are, we are telling ourselves we are unworthy of being who we are.
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And we slowly but surely chip away at our self-worth.
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There s a whole chapter in here called, you re not crazy, you re just first.
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And it s all about the power and the data behind it of, oh my gosh, about how so often the things that we think are wrong or odd or quirky or off or different or strange or wrong about us are actually the things that are most right about us.
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And literally, I built a billion dollar business figuring this out.
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This tastes like freedom.
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When you embrace this, this tastes like freedom.
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I m so excited for everyone to read that chapter.
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And also the one you re talking about, when you change your relationship with rejection, you change your life.
4
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And exactly what you said.
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So again, so a lot of us associate so much pain with rejection.
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getting rejected or failing, right?
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That will stay stuck.
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And to your point, it can hit deeper.
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So here s the thing, whether we ve been rejecting ourselves by not showing up authentically, or a lot of us are unaware of past rejections or failures.
4
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And when we build self-worth, what s beautiful is rejections and failures, they just shake our confidence for a bit, but they cannot touch our self-worth.
4
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But for a lot of us, we ve had past rejections or failures that, yes, have hurt our confidence, but we ve let them take root at an identity level.
4
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And we ve started to believe we re a failure or we re a reject.
4
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And that is when they crush your self-worth.
4
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And so I go into a four-part framework called the Four R s in this chapter, and it is
4
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Oh my gosh, this might be my favorite chapter because this was almost its own book.
4
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When you change your relationship with rejection, you change your life.
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I did not want to wait two and a half more years to put it out, which as you know, as an author, you have to wait.
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I m like, no, people need this now.
4
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So it s now chapter two in the book.
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But here s the thing.
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when I was building IT Cosmetics, what a lot of people don t know, they just kind of read the press headline, oh, Denny s Waitress builds billion-dollar company.
4
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But it was hundreds and hundreds of rejections along the way.
4
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It was so many people that I just love.
4
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And I used to save my Denny s tip money to buy a lipstick at Sephora.
4
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And in the departments, like, I love shopping there.
4
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And all of a sudden, they re telling me no, that my idea is not going to work, the brand s not going to.
4
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And this was no after no after no after no.
4
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And from the point I launched this business in my living room, it was three years before I could even afford to pay myself a penny, but then hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of no s.
4
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And here s the thing.
4
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A lot of people, maybe they know it cosmetics today and they see it at Sephora or at Ulta Beauty or at, you know, in the department stores on QVC, uh, and they don t realize it was actually years of all of them saying no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
4
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And Jade, sometimes it wasn t just no.
4
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It wasn t like, no, come back later.
4
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It was like, no.
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Like some of the no s were so painful, I would cry myself to sleep under the covers.
4
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And most of us have so much pain attached to rejection that we give up.
4
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after one no or five nos, or we start to think that someone else s rejection or no or disbelief in us or whatever it might be is some indication of our potential or some indication of our idea or our dream or our talent.
4
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And it is not.
4
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It is not.
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And so my intention behind this chapter
4
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was I was like, okay, let me break down at a granular level.
4
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What are the tools on how to reframe rejection so that you actually embrace it in a way where you become fearless over it?
4
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And I break down the four R s, which is how I went from, you know, going through hundreds of rejections and literally not letting them take root, literally deciding like, oh, you know,
4
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This is no indication if my business is going to make it, if my idea is right.
4
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And there was one moment after this really painful rejection from QVC, and I knew in my knowing, right?
4
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We talk about our knowing.
4
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In my knowing, Jay, I knew, like, I m supposed to be doing this.
4
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And every time I d pray or get still, I just felt this knowing, like I m supposed to be doing it.
4
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But everyone around me was telling me no.
4
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Potential investors were telling me no.
4
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All these retailers were telling me no.
4
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And two things, for anyone who needs this today, what I realized is, okay, I m getting all these no s, but when I get still, and for some people that s meditation, for some people that s prayer, when I get still and I pray, I will hear a knowing.
4
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And every one of us has a knowing, and your knowing is more powerful than anyone else s advice.
4
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And in this case, I had this journey of all these no s.
4
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and I had my knowing.
4
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And I believe which one you listen to, do you listen to the no s?
4
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And sometimes our thoughts, we re the ones telling ourselves the most painful no s.
4
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Or do you listen to your knowing, right?
4
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And whether you listen to the no s or the knowing, I think your life, your business, your relationships can come down to which one you listen to.
4
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But when we re in the journey of understanding that, the no s can be really painful.
4
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So there was one particular moment I was crying under my covers from another rejection from QVC.
4
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And I started Googling every thought leader, every person who has helped move humanity forward, every person in business who s ever built incredible things.
4
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Every single one of them has faced countless rejections, countless failures, countless setbacks.
4
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They re just the brave ones willing to keep going anyways.
4
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And what I realized in that moment was every time I had been getting a no up till then, the first thought I d have is, yet there s proof I m not enough, right?
4
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And so, and why that s important is for everyone listening, if you imagine yourself getting rejected, or imagine yourself putting yourself out there, telling the person you wanna be more than just friends, or putting an idea on social media, or going for the business, or applying for the job, and you imagine yourself getting rejected or failure, or failing at it,
4
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Think about the first thought you think.
4
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Like for me, most of my whole life, it was, yep, I m not enough, proof I m not.
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For a lot of us, that first thought is so painful.
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And by the way, that first thought is actually your current definition of rejection or failure.
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That is the meaning, whether you know it or not, that you re assigning to rejection or failure.
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And that meaning for so many of us is so painful that it will keep us stuck.
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We will quit.
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We will give up.
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And so for me, my whole life, it was, oh yeah, there s proof I m not enough.
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And in this single moment, crying under the covers, then Googling all these people and realizing, wow, they ve all had a million rejections.
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They re just the brave ones willing to keep going anyways.
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And that day I wrote down, rejection does not mean I m not enough.
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Rejection means I m one of the brave ones.
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Like it s a victory.
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I m one of the brave ones willing to keep going for it anyway.
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I am not one of the ones sitting on the sidelines in regret, right?
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No, I m one of the brave ones.
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And so I reframed it.
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And then every time I got another no, I committed, right?
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Because right away I would think, oh yeah, proof I m not enough.
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Like, no, no, no, no.
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Intercept that thought, replace it with this new definition, like, this is a victory.
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It means I m one of the brave ones willing to go for it.
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And I believe that to be true.
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And so this four-part R framework is to reveal your current definition of rejection, which we all did, right?
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The first thought you have when you get rejected or failure, that s actually your current definition.
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And for a lot of us, it s real painful.
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When I ask groups of people this, it s like, I shouldn t have even tried.
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I m a loser.
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I m stupid.
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Why d I go for it?
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That s your current definition.
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I knew it wasn t meant to happen.
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Exactly.
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And so then when you redefine it, which is what I started to do in that moment where I wrote out, um, oh, rejection doesn t mean I m not enough.
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It means I m one of the brave ones willing to go for it.
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And then I started building a toolbox in my life.
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That s such a great tool.
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Right?
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Of new definitions.
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So another one I love is rejections, God s protection.
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Right?
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Rejection is the universe s protection.
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Rejection means I m one step closer to that yes.
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Rejection is I m putting in the reps.
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I m getting strong enough to carry the weight of my success when it does happen.
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Rejection means like, okay, I m excited for what s coming because this is not happening to me.
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It s happening for me.
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And I cannot wait to, right?
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So when, so I go through in the book, how you do this.
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and build this new set of definitions that you re committed to.
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And then the third R is my favorite, and it is called revisit.
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And this is the one that will change everything.
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It s going to be really emotional for everyone likely who does it.
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But J, a lot of us have past rejections or failures.
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The person that broke our heart, the person that we wanted it to work out so bad and it didn t, or the job we wanted so bad and they didn t see our value and we don t know why, or the partner who betrayed us, or the friend that pulled the rug out from underneath you, or the new friend that did not invite you to the party and you don t know why.
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And the third R is revisit.
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And this is where you go to rejections that have happened that you ve let take root
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into your identity and convinced you you re somehow a rejector, you re somehow a failure.
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And then you apply these first two steps to them.
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You reveal what your meaning is you re giving to them.
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and then you redefine them.
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And this is like, oh my gosh, so many of us are letting past rejections and failures stick to us like labels that we think are permanent, that are like lead balloons on our wings when we re trying to fly and we re trying to soar, but we re holding ourselves down.
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And I have done this with so many things in my life and it has been huge because two quick things, I m so excited.
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But you know, I was adopted and
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And I was raised by parents who, oh my gosh, I feel so blessed, but they worked a lot.
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And I was always home alone watching Oprah in my living room.
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But all growing up and later in life, I found out I was adopted.
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And I always had this, told myself this story that, or I always felt abandoned.
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or unwanted.
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And the way that that came out in my life, oh my gosh, like I would stay in toxic relationships because I didn t want to abandon the person.
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Later on when I m crushing it in business and have over a thousand employees in my company, I would not fire employees soon enough when like they really, really deserved it because I didn t want to abandon them.
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And I went through this process in the book and I m
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And I realized the meaning I was giving to being adopted, the meaning I was giving to growing up alone a lot.
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And I realized, okay, I can tell myself that story or I can actually redefine it in a way I know is true.
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And I just decided, okay, you know what?
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My birth mom and dad were together one time ever, like God chose me to be conceived.
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And then my birth mom s life would have been
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So much easier if she did not have me, but she chose to bring me in the world and my parents chose to raise me.
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I m like, I m not unwanted.
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I m chosen.
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And like, I believe that to be true.
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And it has shifted how I show up in friendships.
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It has shifted how I believe I m worthy of friendships.
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And my all-time favorite, just in case someone needs this today, because I think so many of us have been hurt by other people, have people have not loved us the way we need, or we re just hurt because we feel like we re not included, or a friend doesn t see our value, or we re trying so hard to put ourselves out there, and it s not working.
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I will tell myself this definition.
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And this is for someone who needs this today.
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I feel it in my soul.
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I will literally imagine God saying to me,
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Oh, you weren t rejected.
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I hid your value from them because they re not assigned to your destiny.
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And I will believe it.
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And even to this day, it helps me like let rejections roll right off me.
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Like if I m not invited to a party, Jay, the old me wants to think I m not enough that like, and right away I m like, Oh, okay.
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God s blocking my value from that person.
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Cause I don t know why, but they re not assigned to my destiny and I m going to trust it.
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I m going to believe it.
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And it helps me not let these things take root in my identity.
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And it helps me just like break free from them.
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And so I go through the whole four-part framework of how to do this.
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But I can tell you,
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It s almost never an accident when someone has been able to create or build or succeed in something.
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And while I have made so many mistakes and I have a lot of issues in my life right now, fear of rejection and failure is not one of them.
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It is literally one of the tools on how I endured hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of rejections.
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And then Jay, like,
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What s so kind of cool, this is cool, is just because I know someone needs to hear this today, that someone else s doubt about you is no indication.
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It s no indication of your potential, of if your dream s going to work, of if your idea s going to work, of if you re going to make it, of if your business is going to succeed.
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And I look back, and every single person that told me no along the journey of building IT Cosmetics, and sometimes it was years, even after we built the number one brand in QVC, number one beauty brand in their history, after they said no for years,
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Even after that, I think it was like, I don t know how many more years before Sephora finally said yes.
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It was no after no forever.
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And every single one of those no s turned into a yes.
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Every single one of them.
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And it s just like, I don t know who needs to hear this, but if you have a knowing, if you have a knowing that you are supposed to be doing what you re doing, whether it s putting your art or your talent out there in the world or going for that job or launching that business, like,
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Other people s no s cannot compete with your knowing.
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And you ve got to trust your knowing.
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The second you start trusting all those other no s or the no s that get in your head, that will take you down all day long, right?
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It will, but that rejection, those no s are no indication of your potential.
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And so it was just really important for me to go through.
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It s really like a masterclass in Worthy on how do you reframe rejection and learn to believe it so it does not have power over you and it doesn t take root in your self-worth and it doesn t hold you back.
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So I hope...
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I can t wait to hear how this blesses people, and I want them to share this.
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First of all, anyone listening, share this episode with someone who s like, oh my gosh, if they knew how to reframe a no or reframe rejection, but then post and tag Jay and tell him how this is impacting your life, because this is, yeah, it just tastes like freedom.
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And it s all a lie.
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Someone else s rejection impacts our potential.
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That is a lie.
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That is a lie.
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And when we learn not to believe it, it s just,
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It s freedom.
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You can see the freedom on your face and I want everyone to know, just so that you know, some of the other lies that I think you ll love to read when you get the book.
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A lie, I don t have anything special to offer.
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You re going to love that chapter.
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Another lie, I need to please them to love me.
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That s going to be another lie.
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That chapter is going to blow your mind.
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And there are so many other phenomenal insights, tools.
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Jamie has just shared a
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tip of the iceberg version of some of the amazing tools that are inside this book.
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And Jamie, I want to ask you one last question that I m sitting with as I m looking at your beautiful cover.
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I m witnessing you like a rocket ship flying off of this seat.
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And which lie are you still trying to unlearn?
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Which lie am I still trying to unlearn?
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I think every single day I work to unlearn them.
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The one I will say that feels the best to be unlearning right now.
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I mentioned it a little bit earlier, but didn t go into it.
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And maybe this is exactly for someone right now.
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It s so funny.
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I m not even thinking about you and me.
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I m thinking about the person listening who is just going to break free with this.
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That s why I m getting so excited.
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But my whole life, Jay, for anyone who has felt like they re a little odd or different, or maybe they don t quite fit in with their family, or they re like the one that likes to read books when no one else does, or they re the one that, you know, I used to listen to podcasts or has big dreams.
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I always felt like I
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had to kind of change who I was to fit in.
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And that who I was, if I was fully me, I would not belong.
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And I always kind of felt like that.
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And it always felt a little bit different.
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And I remember growing up, I would have these big wild ideas about, you know, things that could impact the world.
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And, and, and again, I have loving, blessed, loving family, but
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I would often hear things like, things like that don t happen to people like us or, you know, things like that.
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Right.
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And, and, and, and I remember, and I d always hear like, you re crazy, you re crazy.
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And it was a term of endearment, but you know, you re crazy.
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Who do you think you are?
5
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And I just got really good at dimming my own light to make everyone comfortable.
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I got really good at people pleasing.
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And in my 20s, I was the first person in my five families that I m aware of to go to therapy.
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No one had ever gone to therapy that I am aware of.
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And I remember flat out asking my therapist, I said, you know, I m,
5
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Am I crazy?
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My family s always said these words as terms of endearment, but I feel like I m very different, and I don t fit in.
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And I asked her, and she said, you re not crazy, but I m really glad you re here.
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And she explained to me that when you are the first,
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in your family, or your peer group, or the people you were raised around, or your colleagues, when you re the first to actually be brave enough to be who you authentically are, and be willing to think different, or love different, or vote different, or create different, right?
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It often comes with feeling othered, or feeling like you don t quite fit in, or you don t quite belong, because you are the first ever you.
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And I remember this moment that hit me like a light bulb, like so bright it burst when I realized I m not crazy.
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I m just first.
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I m not crazy.
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I m just first.
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I m the first ever me.
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And every person listening to you and me right now, like you are the first ever you.
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And if you are one of the brave ones willing to show up in this life as who you truly authentically are, you are first.
5
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There has never been another you before.
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There will never be another you again.
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Like no one in this world has your unique fingerprints or tongue print or, or iris of your eyes, or we all have a unique heartbeat.
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But also if you think about this, right, for everyone listening, no one else has, you know, the experiences you ve had and the emotions that you feel or sees art or beauty in the world the way you do.
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And so when you show up authentically as who you are,
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Do not be surprised if not everyone gets it.
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Like they ve never seen another you before, right?
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There s no social proof that your idea is going to work if you re doing it authentically because it s never been done before.
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And when we talk about that lie about, oh, I have nothing special to offer.
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Okay, I walked into a beauty industry with tens of thousands of brands, and I launched a concealer, then a foundation.
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That has been done a million times before, but guess what?
6
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I dared to do it authentic to me, right?
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And that has never been done before.
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And so for every person listening who thinks
6
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Someone s done my idea.
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Someone s done it better than me.
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Someone s done it smarter than me.
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That is a lie.
6
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Because when you are willing to be the brave one and show up as who you authentically are, you cannot prove me wrong.
6
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It has never been done before.
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Your idea has never been done before the way you re going to do it.
6
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And that is why it is your superpower to be fully authentically you.
6
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Because we think, oh, those things are wrong if they found out who I really am.
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You know, oh, uh-uh.
6
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The second you are not you,
6
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There is an automatic barrier of disconnection between you and customers, you and a potential partner, you and friends.
6
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When you are who you fully are, even the quirks and all, that is your superpower.
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You are not crazy.
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You are just first.
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And that has been, I think,
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Of all the lies, that is the one that is the most freeing.
6
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It is the most liberating.
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It has brought me so much closer in my friendships, right?
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And walking into this room with you, Jay Shetty, a friend who I love and adore, if I am thinking about, oh, I need to be a great guest and say the right things,
6
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there s now a barrier of disconnection between me and you, between me and every single person listening and watching right now.
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And there s probably a billion things I ve said that I could do such a better job at, but guess what?
6
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I said them fully me.
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I was jumping out of my chair because that is full, but this is how people connect.
6
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And so every person listening who
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feels like they have to be something slightly other than who they are, uh-uh, uh-uh.
6
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You are not crazy or odd or different.
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You re first, right?
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And the last thing I ll say to that, Jay, when I finally got one shot on QVC after years of them telling me no.
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And we sold out in 10 minutes, which is a wild story.
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And then I eventually did over 1,000 live shows, right?
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We were selling over $200 million in product a year, just me to a camera on QVC.
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I mean, the whole thing was wild.
6
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But I sat in that green room for over eight years, over 1,000 shows, and I met tens of thousands of entrepreneurs, of brand founders, of celebrities, of people that came in to sell their product on air.
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one out of every, I don t know, 1,000 ever come back because it is so hard to hit the sales numbers.
6
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Because you re live on air and they know by the second if you re hitting sales numbers.
6
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And I remember watching this, and this is for everyone listening right now, I remember watching over an eight-year window going, what is that commonality with the very few who make it?
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What is that?
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The very few who hit numbers get invited back another time and eventually build something that lasts.
6
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What is that commonality?
6
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And I would just watch, watch tens of thousands of, from every, the biggest brands in the world, the most famous people in the world, the greatest founders.
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And literally it was not who had the best product.
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It was not who is the most famous.
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It was not who s giving the best discount or deal of the day.
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None of that.
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And it was not who s the most seasoned sales person or television professional.
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The
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only thing they had in common, the very few who made it, was that they are the same on air when they are talking to customers and selling their product as they are off air in the green room.
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And it did not matter if they re extroverted or introverted.
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If they re quirky and out there and big personality or like really quiet and very like meticulous, it didn t matter.
6
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It s the ones that were the exact same.
6
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Because you cannot fake authenticity and customers and people sense it and feel it, whether it s your online community or it s the people buying your product, it doesn t matter.
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And when I watched that, I m like, this is the most freeing thing ever.
6
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because it takes all the pressure off of feeling like you gotta be something you re not, or you gotta show up as your representative.
6
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And I saw proof before my eyes in the form of literally success, of conversion to sales, of people trusting that person, like right before my eyes, year after year after year, that it does not matter how you show up, you just have to be authentic.
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Like that s it, and how few people are.
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And what I realized, the last thing I ll say, is that I realized this lesson that I try to live by every single day, because I think this applies to every area of our lives, that while authenticity alone does not automatically guarantee success, inauthenticity guarantees failure.
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Every time, over time.
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in every area of our life.
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But when we embrace that, it s just all the pressure comes off and it just tastes like freedom.
6
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It feels like joy.
6
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It s when we live in alignment with our assignment.
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Jamie, I want to thank you for revealing and releasing so many of the lies I have within me during this conversation too.
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I really felt that sitting here and consuming and deeply immersing myself in what you were saying.
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There were so many wonderful
6
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releases that happened just in that process, and I m sure that I m not the only one.
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And so, if you ve been listening or watching, I d love for you to grab a copy of Jamie s book, Worthy, How to Believe You Are Enough and Transform Your Life, Simple Steps, Life-Changing Results.
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The book is available now.
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The link is available in the caption below.
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Please go and grab a copy of this book.
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You re gonna love it.
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And I said earlier, Jamie is donating 100% of her author proceeds for Worthy as well.
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And so you ll also be supporting a good cause.
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Jamie, thank you for coming on to On Purpose today.
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So grateful to call your friends, so grateful to have you in the studio with us, and so grateful that you put this book together.
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So thank you for being here.
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Thank you, Jay.
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Thank you so much.
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Thank you.
6
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If you love this episode, you ll really enjoy my episode with Selena Gomez on befriending your inner critic and how to speak to yourself with more compassion.
6
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My fears are only going to continue to show me what I m capable of.
6
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The more that I face my fears, the more that I feel I m gaining strength, I m gaining wisdom and I just want to keep doing that.
6
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For all the parents out there, picture that it s bedtime.
6
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You and the kids have been busy all day.
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You know they re tired, but for some reason they just won t go to sleep.
6
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And for this reason, I created the podcast Bedtime History.
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Bedtime History is a series of relaxing history stories that end with an inspirational message.
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With over 2,000 positive parent reviews, Bedtime History is one of the top education podcasts.
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Join me and listen to Bedtime History every Monday and Thursday on iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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At one of the most famous restaurants in the world, there s a table in the corner where the most incredible conversations on the planet are happening every week with owner Ruthie Rogers and amazing guests like Martha Stewart, Jimmy Fallon, and Paul McCartney.
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We ve saved you a seat.
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Ruthie s Table 4.
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Listen to Ruthie s Table 4 on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Tune in to the new podcast, Stories from the Village of Nothing Much.
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Like easy listening, but for fiction.
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If you ve overdosed on bad news, we invite you into a world where the glimmers of goodness in everyday life are all around you.
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I m Katharine Nicolai, and I m an architect of cozy.
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Come spend some time where everyone is welcome and the default is kindness.
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Listen, relax, enjoy.
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Listen to stories from the Village of Nothing Much on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.