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This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol.
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The joy they brought to the nation.
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You re free completely.
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No one is there to destroy you.
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The danger they endured.
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They said my head should be cut off.
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I m John Legend.
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Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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A new season of Bridgerton is here.
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And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
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I m your host, Gabby Collins.
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And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
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Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
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Then fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday.
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Guess what, Will?
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What s up, Mango?
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I ve been trying to write a promo for our podcast, Part-Time Genius, but even though we ve done over 250 episodes, we don t really talk about murders or cults.
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I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese, so I feel like that makes us pretty edgy.
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We also solve mysteries like how Chinese is your Chinese food and how do dollar stores make money?
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And then, of course, can you game a dog show?
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So what you re saying is everyone should be listening.
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Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
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SPEAKER_05
When that happened, you know, I was 14 years old and he completely took advantage of his power as a teacher at the school.
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And to be doing that to a little girl was just so wrong.
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The bestselling author and host.
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The number one health and wellness podcast.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty.
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Hey, everyone.
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Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world.
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Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to become happier, healthier, and more healed.
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And I m so excited to be talking to you today.
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I can t believe it.
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My new book, Eight Rules of Love, is out, and I cannot wait to share it with you.
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I am so, so excited for you to read this book, for you to listen to this book.
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I read the audiobook.
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If you haven t got it already,
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Make sure you go to 8rulesoflove.com.
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It s dedicated to anyone who s trying to find, keep, or let go of love.
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So if you ve got friends that are dating, broken up, or struggling with love, make sure you grab this book.
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And I d love to invite you to come and see me for my global tour, Love Rules.
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Go to jscheddytour.com to learn more information about tickets, VIP experiences, and more.
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I can t wait to see you this year.
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Now you know my favorite thing in life is sitting down with people who are able to be open, vulnerable, and honest about their experiences in a way that we can all learn from, in a way that we can all
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feel inspired by and empowered by in our own lives.
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And today s guest is someone who has a new memoir out.
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Now I ve read this memoir cover to cover, and I can honestly tell you it is one of the most authentic, open, genuine accounts that I ve
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I feel allows someone to claim back their narrative.
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And I recommend you read it as well.
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And I m going to tell you who I m sitting down with today.
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I have the fortune and honor of sitting down with the one and only Paris Hilton, CEO, New York Times bestselling author, philanthropist, DJ, designer, recording artist, actress, host, model, and influencer.
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Paris has defined and dominated pop culture, commanding her position as one of the most recognizable faces on the planet.
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I grew up watching her, so I know very well.
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Paris has masterfully harnessed her self-made spotlight to architect a thriving entertainment and consumer products empire, which spans an impressive range of businesses and verticals, including TV, film, audio, music, publishing, licensing, consumer products, brand partnerships, and so many more.
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In 2006, she created Paris Hilton Entertainment, a multi-billion-dollar company consisting of 45 branded stores, 19 product lines, and 29 fragrances that has amassed over $4 billion in revenue.
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In 2001, Variety declared Paris Hilton as a billion-dollar entrepreneur in recognition of her successful business and global brand.
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Paris  new book is out now.
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It s called Paris, The Memoir.
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I literally just finished reading it.
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And today we have Paris Hilton in the studio.
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Paris, thank you for being here.
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Thank you.
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Thank you for the introduction.
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Oh, I meant it.
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And congratulations.
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You know, I, whenever I sit down with someone who s written a memoir and I want everyone who s listening to really understand this, because I think people see memoirs coming out and they see books coming out and you just, you kind of think like, oh yeah, someone s just telling their story.
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And I think what I found really fascinating about yours is I can t imagine how hard it was to retell so many of these stories and to relive so many of them.
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And I just wanted to thank you for being able to go there so many times because I think
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even though as in your own words, where people may think that they don t relate to you, I actually think that the stories you tell us so much more relatable than people would expect.
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And I just want to thank you for, for sharing them so vulnerably.
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Thank you.
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Yeah, it was definitely very difficult and emotional, but extremely just therapeutic.
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Just
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putting it all out there because it s so much that I ve held on to for so long and so many things that I ve never told anyone, like things I ve never even wanted to say out loud because I didn t even want to think that they were real.
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But it s just been the most healing experience of my life.
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So you feel it s actually been healing, even though it was uneasy.
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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It s actually been something that has been therapeutic.
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It s been healthier than unhealthy.
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Were there parts where you were like, oh gosh, I just need a break from this.
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Definitely.
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So many parts, just cause I ve been through so many traumatic experiences in my life.
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So just to have to write them down and then doing the audio book was even, that was even harder having to say things out loud, especially in a room with,
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three strangers I ve never met before and having to tell my story, but I m so happy that I did my audio book as well because I think it s important for people to hear the story from the person who wrote it.
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Yeah, that s such a great point too.
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Even having to say it out loud for yourself, I think so many of us, we hold our truth so deeply buried inside of us and we might think it,
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but we never actually speak it out loud.
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And that s such a great example.
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I never thought about it like that.
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I think the other thing before we dive in, I wanted to mention, which I loved about your memoir is,
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You were so phenomenally observant.
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I almost feel like you had a Hawkeye, where you re able to find all these details.
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You re incredibly smart, phenomenally astute, just spotting these tiny details and patterns and connections.
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And the stories you tell and the history you tell, I really enjoyed it.
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I literally felt like you were talking to me.
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And I read it.
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I didn t listen to it.
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And now I ll have to listen to it.
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But I read it, and I literally felt like I was like this talking to you.
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Yeah, so it s hard to do that.
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It s hard to pull that off.
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So I just want everyone to know who s going to read it that you re really going to feel that.
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Where I wanted to start was, you talked a lot about how, and I think this is completely true, you said most of us regret things that we didn t do, not things that we did do.
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But you said in your 20s, there are a few things you do regret.
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And I was wondering, were there regrets that you did do or didn t do and what were they?
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For me, I feel that everything that I ve done in life has made me who I am, and I m such a strong person.
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And especially after writing this book and just seeing my life story and everything that I ve been through, I feel that I don t have regrets in life because it s made me the woman I am today.
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What made you say that, that chapter that I think you were just like, ah, I ve got a couple of regrets.
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Like, even if they were silly ones, like I m guessing there weren t any big ones.
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Relationships.
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Like I wish I didn t meet certain people.
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Like I, I wish I didn t let certain people in my life that shouldn t have been in my life be pulled with bad intentions because I ve, especially growing up was just always just so trusting of everyone and would let anyone in.
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And there s so many people who just didn t deserve that.
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Do you think you ve got better at assessing and evaluating energy and intentions around you because of all your bad and negative experiences that you re saying?
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Do you feel like you ve found a better radar or is it just something that we all keep making mistakes on because it s so hard?
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Because what I read is you want to be a trusting person.
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You want to be a loving person.
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You want to feel loved like we all do, but have you found that you ve got better at it?
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And if so, what would you say you ve got better at in terms of sensing people s energy and intention?
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I think in the beginning I was just unexperienced in life.
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So I, I really didn t know and I had been through so much in life.
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So I think I was just after the trauma that I experienced as a teenager.
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I was not, I don t know, I think in the right headspace to make decisions on being in a relationship.
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Like the first person I started a relationship with, I was not ready for that.
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And because of so many things that happened to me, my heart just had this huge wall around it for a very long time.
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And so many things that happened that it made me not trust anyone.
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And it wasn t until with my husband that I
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had those walls come down and I actually let someone in.
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But that took me a very long time just from so many life experiences that made me that way.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and I want to get to that because I want to talk about a lot of those things you just mentioned, but one line that really took me, kind of spellbound me in your book was, everyone was under the spell of love and money.
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SPEAKER_00
And when I read that, I was thinking about it and I was wondering, it kind of aligns with what you re saying here is that a lot of people with negative intentions or
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unhealthy intentions are often under the spell of love and money and that makes them do crazy things.
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I mean, what was some of the craziest thing you saw people do?
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Maybe not even to you, but what were some of those things that you saw when people were bound by this spell of love and money?
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SPEAKER_00
As you say, what, what lens have you seen people go to?
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I just have seen people change where money can just take over their mind and
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who they are as a person and any values they have would just go to the side.
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Just seeing people change, especially fame and money.
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I ve just seen so many people come into this town, some people come and go, and the fame and the money get to their head so much where they become a different person and start thinking that they re better than others and treating others beneath them.
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And that s something that I
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hate more than anything.
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When someone is unkind to someone and treats someone as if they re lower than them, that s like one of the things that is one of my pet peeves.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s interesting, right?
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Like you can t buy class.
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Like fame and money can t buy class.
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I ve always felt that way that when you see people come into those things, it doesn t change your taste or your habits or your values.
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SPEAKER_00
It kind of just amplifies who you already are.
1
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I think I ve heard many people say where it almost just, it almost exposes you for who you really are when those things come your way.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think you said in the book, or you ve said once before when asked about self-esteem, and I really want to talk about the things that happened in your teenage years, but I think self-esteem is such a big topic in the world today, especially because of social media, especially because of so much self-judgment and self-criticism.
1
SPEAKER_00
And when you ve been asked before, you ve mentioned like you re good at pretending sometimes, or you have been good at pretending.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I wonder,
1
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When was it that you allowed yourself to stop pretending and really start working on it?
1
SPEAKER_00
What did that take?
1
SPEAKER_00
Because I feel like most of us, it s so much more easier to pretend and we hide behind it.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I feel like you claiming your narrative back in this book was almost saying, well, I m not going to let what s happened to me define my self-esteem.
1
SPEAKER_00
Would you say that s fair?
1
SPEAKER_01
definitely everyone goes through that and it took me a while just after what I had went through.
1
SPEAKER_01
My self-esteem was just destroyed from the things that were said to me and the abuse that I suffered when I was a teenager at these
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t even like to call them schools.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it wasn t until my documentary back in 2019 where I really started doing this whole path of self-discovery and really just talking about so many things I had never told anyone.
1
SPEAKER_01
Then with now my book, that was the second part of it, because I wasn t even ready at that point to open up in ways I did.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I ve just grown so much in the past couple of years.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then getting married, my husband, it s just my life has completely changed.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I m going to be always forever so grateful to Alexander Dean, the director of my documentary, because that film literally changed my life.
1
SPEAKER_00
making it change your life.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes, in so many ways.
1
SPEAKER_01
And now really just turning my pain into a purpose and helping make a difference in other people s lives has just been so rewarding.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I feel that people understand me in ways that they didn t before.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it just feels really good to finally be understood.
1
SPEAKER_00
I want to tap into some of those events because I think
1
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I actually think there s more people suffering in silence than people who are vocal about the pain and what they ve been through.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I think that what I meant earlier, which I said this to you offline, but I want to repeat it here on the show, that I think a lot of people for a lot of part of your life see parts of your life as unrelatable.
1
SPEAKER_00
But then when you open up about these things in the book, I actually think I have a lot of friends and especially women that I know that
1
SPEAKER_00
have been through similar things but have never opened up and have held it tight or opened up to a couple of people and so i m hoping that with you opening up in this way a lot of people will look at that and go well maybe i need to talk to someone or maybe i can reach out so i wanted to talk about some of them i mean the first one that comes up is
1
SPEAKER_00
You have your teacher who you call Mr. Abercrombie, who s manipulating you and grooming you and making you think in a certain way.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s really interesting because our teenage years are these years where we wait to be liked to feel likable, or we wait for someone to desire us to feel desirable.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think you re in eighth grade.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
And he s preparing you in this way.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then, you know, he takes you in his car one night and he kisses you and pulls you into him.
1
SPEAKER_00
And like, you know, it s completely against your will.
1
SPEAKER_00
You don t know what s going on at the same time.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s nice to be like wanted.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you talk about that before.
1
SPEAKER_00
I can t imagine that being someone s like, you know, first kiss to that degree.
1
SPEAKER_00
And like,
1
SPEAKER_00
you talk about how like, because your parents kind of caught you.
1
SPEAKER_00
And of course the book goes into much more depth.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m just synthesizing it for the, for the question, but you didn t want to talk about it with them and they didn t talk about it with you.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, what does it feel like when you hold onto uncomfortable things?
1
SPEAKER_00
What does that feel like?
1
SPEAKER_00
And then what gave you the courage to actually say, I need to talk about this?
1
SPEAKER_01
For me, um,
1
SPEAKER_01
That s just how my family was.
1
SPEAKER_01
We didn t like to talk about things.
1
SPEAKER_01
And when that happened, you know, I was 14 years old and he completely took advantage of his power as a teacher at the school and to be
1
SPEAKER_01
doing that to a little girl was just so wrong.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I m so glad that my parents ended up driving out the driveway because who knows what he would have tried to do.
1
SPEAKER_01
And after that happened, I just didn t ever talk about it with my family up until a few weeks ago when I asked my mom, I said, that night that you caught me in the car and you were chasing me,
1
SPEAKER_01
infant car and everything, did you know who that was? 
1
SPEAKER_01
And she said, no.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was like, oh, I always thought my whole, since I was a teenager, I thought that she knew that it was that and she had no idea until now.
1
SPEAKER_01
She just thought it was some teenage boy.
1
SPEAKER_00
Wow, up to like a couple of weeks ago?
1
SPEAKER_01
Literally, up until a couple weeks ago when she read my book.
1
SPEAKER_00
And what was her reaction to that?
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean... In shock.
1
SPEAKER_01
She just couldn t believe it.
1
SPEAKER_01
She was in shock of so many things in the book.
1
SPEAKER_01
My sister and her, we just spoke about it like at my house a few weeks ago and they were both just
1
SPEAKER_01
crying and saying, I can t believe it.
1
SPEAKER_01
You didn t tell us any of this.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, I wish you could have came to us.
1
SPEAKER_01
But it s just, it s hard to talk about things.
1
SPEAKER_01
And especially when you re raised in that way where you don t really talk about anything that s hard.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s been difficult, but I m so glad that I finally got the courage to do it.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I know that my story is really important, and I wish that I had this book back when I was a teenager because I would have definitely not felt so alone and misunderstood.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I, it s really interesting, isn t it?
1
SPEAKER_00
Family, like we feel so close to, we all feel, and I think you do a, I think you really healthily talk about how like no one s family is perfect, but you love your family, but then there s complex.
1
SPEAKER_00
And that s, that s just, I think a lot of us have that experience where it s like,
1
SPEAKER_00
our families would say the same thing, like, why didn t you tell me?
1
SPEAKER_00
But then at the same time, it s like, well, if I told you, you may not have reacted in a way that was helpful.
1
SPEAKER_00
Did, do you feel like, did, do you feel like when your mom read that, she like felt some guilt or like, or how did she carry that?
1
SPEAKER_00
Like.
1
SPEAKER_01
She definitely felt guilty.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think as a kid, you just, you re scared, like, oh, I m going to get in trouble.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think that s something that,
2
SPEAKER_01
That shame is such a powerful, powerful thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that s a really important message in my book, that the shame shouldn t be on you.
2
SPEAKER_01
It should be on the person that hurt you.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I felt like I just held on to so much shame my whole life because of other people hurting me.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think other people who ve been through the same thing need to hear that as well.
2
SPEAKER_00
That is so powerful.
2
SPEAKER_00
I just want everyone who s listening or watching right now to go back and listen to that, because what you just said is so true.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m going to try and repeat what Parish has said so beautifully, that when someone else dumps something to you, the shame should not actually be something you have to feel and experience.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s actually on them.
2
SPEAKER_00
and yeah i was noticing that i actually was when i was making notes it was like shame and embarrassment are these constant themes in the book and it s so interesting because all of us in our lives we always feel embarrassed for someone else what will my parents think of what i did or i feel so ashamed of myself for what someone did to me when actually what you just said is
2
SPEAKER_00
They should be feeling shameful of what they did, but like Mr. Abercrombie that day in the car, just drops you off and runs away because they want to just run away from that.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you start to realize, actually, that person is feeling so much shame that they have to lie to themselves about it.
2
SPEAKER_00
in order to escape it.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I love that.
2
SPEAKER_00
I hope that everyone who s listening just feels freed by recognizing that, that the shame you re feeling is actually for the person who hurt you to feel.
2
SPEAKER_00
And what really hit me was also just, again, talking about vocalizing things.
2
SPEAKER_00
You said it took you so long to even use the word pedophile because you didn t want to explain to us why it was important to use the word, but why it took you long.
2
SPEAKER_02
A new season of Bridgerton is here.
2
SPEAKER_02
And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
2
SPEAKER_02
I m your host, Gabrielle Collins.
2
SPEAKER_02
And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
2
SPEAKER_02
Colin Bridgerton has returned from his travels abroad.
2
SPEAKER_02
Is Betrothal written in the stars for the eligible bachelor?
2
SPEAKER_02
Meanwhile, the ton is reverberating with speculation of who holds Lady Whistledown s pen.
2
SPEAKER_02
We re discussing it all.
2
SPEAKER_02
I sit down with Nicola Coughlin, Luke Newton, Shonda Rhimes, and more to offer an exclusive peek behind the scenes of each episode of the new season.
2
SPEAKER_02
Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
2
SPEAKER_02
Then,
2
SPEAKER_02
Fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_02
Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday.
2
SPEAKER_03
Hey, everyone, this is Molly and Matt, and we re the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart Podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_04
It s a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting.
2
SPEAKER_03
like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone, and so much more.
2
SPEAKER_04
We re back with season two of the podcast, which means more opportunities to glow up and become a more responsible and better adult, one life lesson at a time.
2
SPEAKER_03
And let me just tell you, this show is just as much for us as it is for you.
2
SPEAKER_03
So let s figure this stuff out together.
2
SPEAKER_03
This season, we re going to talk about whether or not we re financially and emotionally ready for dog ownership.
2
SPEAKER_04
We re going to figure out the benefits of a high yield savings account.
2
SPEAKER_03
And what exactly are the duties of being a member of the wedding party?
2
SPEAKER_04
All that plus so much more.
2
SPEAKER_03
Let s learn about all of it and then some.
2
SPEAKER_03
Listen to Grown Up Stuff How to Adult on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_06
Guess what, Bango?
2
SPEAKER_06
What s up, Will?
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SPEAKER_06
So iHeart is giving us a whole minute to promote our podcast, Part-Time Genius.
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SPEAKER_05
I know, that s why I spent my whole week composing a haiku for the occasion.
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SPEAKER_05
It s about my emotional journey in podcasting over the last seven years, and it s called Earthquake House.
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SPEAKER_06
Mango, I m going to cut you off right there.
2
SPEAKER_05
Why don t we just tell people about our show instead?
2
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, that s a better idea.
2
SPEAKER_05
So every week on Part-Time Genius, we feed our curiosity by answering the world s most important questions.
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SPEAKER_05
Things like, when did America start dialing 911?
2
SPEAKER_05
Is William Shatner s best acting work in Esperanto?
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SPEAKER_05
Also, what happened to Esperanto?
2
SPEAKER_06
Plus, we cover questions like how Chinese is your Chinese food?
2
SPEAKER_06
How do dollar stores stay in business?
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SPEAKER_06
And of course, is there an Illuminati of cheese?
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SPEAKER_06
There absolutely is.
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SPEAKER_05
And we are risking our lives by talking about it.
2
SPEAKER_05
But if you love mind-blowing facts, incredible history and really bad jokes, make your brains happy and tune in to Part-Time Genius.
2
SPEAKER_06
Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
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I think that I had just been so manipulated by him and I didn t want to think of myself as a victim.
2
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But now as an adult, I look back on that and think of when I have a daughter one day and she s a teenager.
2
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And if someone had tried to do something like that to her, I couldn t even imagine.
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And it just angers me.
2
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And I never had told anyone that story, but I know it s an important story because I know that s something that happens every day to people.
2
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I literally read your book as if I was reading it about my daughter.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like that s how I was like, and I don t have a daughter, but I was, I have a younger sister who I ve always been very protective of.
2
SPEAKER_00
And to me, when I was reading your book, that s literally the lens.
2
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What you just said is how I read the book where I was just like, if this happened to my, like my younger daughter or younger child, even son, like whoever it is, I can t imagine
2
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how upset I d feel if I didn t keep that door open for them.
2
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And I just want to, you know, if there s any parents listening as well, I just hope that this inspires you to really keep that door open with your kids because it s so easy to judge them and it s so easy to make it out like you made every right decision and your kids are making bad decisions.
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But
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I promise you, you ll be so much happier if the communication lines are always open.
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I mean, speaking of communication with parents, you said there were some things that were difficult for your mom to discuss.
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Obviously, this was one of them.
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What were the other things that you felt your mom really was just shocked by and just felt like she wished you could have spoken to her about it?
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My mom had me when she was 19.
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So she was a kid herself.
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And that generation, like, I think a lot of people really didn t talk about their feelings.
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Like no one was talking about mental health.
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It was just, I think that generation is just how they were raised.
2
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So I could understand why she was that way.
2
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And now ever since she s read my book and watched my documentary and has learned so much from me in that way, we ve just never been closer.
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So it s been a really healing experience for both of us as well.
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And I hope that encourages anyone who s felt like that for a long time.
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Because like you re saying, most of us are not going to tell our parents what we re doing when we re doing it.
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I was the same.
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I had so many secrets from my parents.
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My parents never knew about any of the girlfriends I had.
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My parents never knew about anything that I was up to because I was scared of them.
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being mad at me and upset with me because the line in my house was, focus on your education, don t worry about girlfriends.
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And so as a young boy, all you care about is having girlfriends.
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And I was like, well, as long as I can get good grades, I m just going to carry on doing all this other stuff.
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And it s interesting because I feel like even as we get older, we re still scared of our parents, right?
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It s almost like it never stops.
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And so it s so strange.
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My wife talks about this all the time.
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She talks about how she s still scared sometimes to tell her parents.
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about what she s up to or whatever.
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I always feel like a teenager with my parents.
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I don t know why.
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It s just how it is.
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Yeah.
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And all of us feel that way.
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And there s this...
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It s so important that I think we get the courage, even as adults, because a lot of us are like, oh, that was the past, it doesn t matter.
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But actually, it will actually change the relationship you have with your parents when you can actually open up the lines of trust.
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On the flip side, you have a beautiful relationship with your grandma.
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That comes across in the book.
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So strongly and beautifully.
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And when you speak about her, I feel like it just comes out the page and it s beaming.
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And your appreciation and your admiration for her is just this amazing thing.
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What would you say is a lesson that you think
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has stayed with you, that she taught you, that you still carry with you every day?
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What would you say that would be, if you had to pick one?
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She was just a force of nature, would just walk in a room and light it up, and always made me feel so confident.
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And I remember when I was a little girl, she told me,
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But she went to a psychic and the psychic said, one day your granddaughter is going to be one of the most famous and most photographed women in the world.
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And she said, I know that s going to happen one day and I just want you to always remain the same sweet down to earth girl that you are with such a big heart and so kind and never let that get to your head.
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And that was something that I always kept close to my heart and nothing ever changed no matter what happened in my life.
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I always
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remain the same sweet person.
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And I think that s so important to be kind.
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And that s something that she really instilled in me my whole life.
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I mean, that, that sounds like a great thing.
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Everyone should tell their kids, like, I love all of that because it s almost like, I believe in you.
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I know you re going to be successful, but don t forget where you came from, who you are and how you treat people.
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Like that s what s, what s foundational and really important.
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And
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Yeah, we all need that figure in our lives, like whether it s a grandparent or uncle or aunt, a friend who reminds us of who we need to continue to be because it s so easy to get distracted.
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But what I think is really interesting is how you kept that mindset when, so you go, and I know you don t like calling it a school, and I agree from your description of the CEDU, right?
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CEDU.
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CEDU, yeah.
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Yeah, one of them, Provo Canyon School.
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Yeah.
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Cascade and Ascent.
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Yeah, so like looking at all of these facilities, even when they re taking you there, it almost feels like you re being kidnapped.
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You have handcuffs walking through an airport when you re not a convict or, you know, you haven t done something illegal.
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And then it s even like when they explain it, they re like, we re going to this place to fix you.
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And your reaction is,
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There s nothing wrong to fix.
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What I m fascinated by is how did you hold on to the idea that there was nothing to fix when everything around you is programming you to believe that you re broken, you re wrong, and you re needing fixing?
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How do you not
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take that all in.
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I knew that I didn t deserve to be there.
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And, you know, I wasn t a bad kid.
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I live a very strict life, very sheltered.
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Then I moved to New York City, started sneaking out, getting bad grades.
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And my parents talked to a therapist who recommended that I go to these emotional growth boarding schools.
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And they had no idea.
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They just thought it was a normal boarding school.
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And the way they take kids to these places is they have two men come into a room in the middle of the night and say, do you want to go the easy way or the hard way and literally hold up handcuffs.
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And this is how children are brought to these places.
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And it s extremely traumatizing.
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That s something that I had severe nightmares for
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two decades.
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It wasn t until my documentary and all the advocacy work that I ve been doing that those nightmares finally went away.
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But for me, I just always thought to myself, I know that I m a good person.
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I don t deserve to be in here.
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And that was the only thing that kept me going was who I was going to become and what I wanted to be when I got out of there.
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Did you see other people break down?
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Did you see other people around you?
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Because I find that to be one of the hardest things where if you re being told you re broken, if you re being told you re wrong, if you re being told you re wrong and letting your parents down.
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And by the way, you re doing very normal things at this point.
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I think sneaking out, getting bad grades, getting in trouble is actually pretty normal for any teenage kid.
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And I had attention deficit disorder, which no one knew because no one was talking about that either.
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So that s the reason I couldn t pay attention in school and was getting bad grades and no one knew why.
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They just thought that I was purposely trying to not pay attention, but I just really couldn t focus.
3
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Yeah.
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Yeah, and it s incredible to think that, and I think this is what s coming out so much today, where people who weren t able to focus at school because of ADHD or other challenges that they have are doing phenomenally well in business and in life.
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And it s like, you start to recognize that there isn t this correlation between... It s not like, oh, if you got good grades, you had a great career or great profession.
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It could very well be the opposite.
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How do you find you ve been able to...
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What s different about business than school, I guess, that you ve been so passionate about and been so prolific at that you feel is different about how you approach school?
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I feel that my ADHD, I consider it my superpower.
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And I think that s why in business and everything that I ve done, I ve always been very future thinking and thinking outside of the box and being a risk taker and someone who is an innovator and pioneer.
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And I really attribute that to my superpower of ADHD.
3
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Yeah.
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But how do you, how do you, I guess,
3
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not, how does not always being able to force yourself to focus actually become a superpower in business like that?
3
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How does that work?
3
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Thinking in a different way.
3
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And with ADHD, my doctor, Dr. Heller says that it s like having
3
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brain of like a Ferrari with bicycle brakes.
3
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So you re kind of just always moving really fast and thinking really fast.
3
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And I think that s why in business I ve done so many things first, because I just, I don t know, just took a risk and I m impulsive.
3
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Yeah.
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And that can, and that s the interesting, isn t it?
3
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Because it s almost like in school, everything has to have a process and a method and a approach where sometimes in business, actually trying something out,
3
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and being impulsive or making an intuitive decision can actually work out, whereas being intuitive school is not valued at all.
3
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Yeah, I think I just found it to be boring.
3
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Besides, I loved art class, music class, but
3
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Math was not my favorite.
3
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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My favorite subjects at school were art and design, philosophy, and I enjoyed economics because of how it was taught, but art and design and philosophy were by far my favorite subjects at school.
3
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And it s really interesting because when I was at school, all I d ever hear is, Jade, those are dumb subjects to focus on.
3
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Don t focus on those subjects.
3
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They re not going to get you a job.
3
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And now when I look at my life, I feel like my entire life is art and design, philosophy, and economics.
3
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That s literally it.
3
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And so it s interesting how we all have strengths that we miss out on.
3
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I wanted to roll back a few years because the experience that you describe about meeting the guy in the mall, and then it s almost like you go through this experience and you wake up and you re like, you know what s happened, but again, it s another moment.
3
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where you don t want to tell anyone about what s happened.
3
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And I just feel every time I was reading your book and I read these points, it was like a punch in the gut for me.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was just like, I can t believe it that something keeps happening that is not something that you re inviting or encouraging.
3
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And it s someone taking advantage.
3
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It s someone going,
3
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far beyond any point of consent.
3
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And again, you re having to hold on to it.
3
SPEAKER_01
Can you walk us through that and just talk again about what it feels like to have to hold on to something the second time around, especially when this is like from your first kiss to your first sexual experience?
3
SPEAKER_01
How does that keep accelerating internally?
3
SPEAKER_01
Like what s going on internally?
3
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That was another thing in my book that I had never told anyone.
3
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Like after that happened, I never said it out loud again and just tried to forget it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And, um, my friend and I were at the mall when I was 15 and a half.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
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And we had met these two older guys that we had seen like every weekend there and they got our numbers and invited us over.
3
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And I had never drank alcohol in my life before.
3
SPEAKER_00
And he had these wine berry coolers, these wine coolers, and kept telling me to drink it and pressuring me.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I kept saying no.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then I was like, it s open, just do it.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I had a couple sips and then
3
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I was roofied and knocked out and woke up with him on top of me and whispering, you re dreaming, you re dreaming.
3
SPEAKER_00
And, um, that was just terrifying to go through.
3
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And something that I felt ashamed for when, again, that was not my fault.
3
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This was someone who took advantage of a young girl.
3
SPEAKER_01
And how did it feel like a second time thinking, I can t tell anyone again?
3
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I guess my question is with, with shame and embarrassment keeps cycling in this way.
3
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Do you feel like you literally held onto that shame and embarrassment until the doc and the book?
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, would you say you ve carried it for that long?
3
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And what does that feel like as it festers?
3
SPEAKER_00
It s extremely, it s isolating.
3
SPEAKER_00
You just feel alone, just like that no one knows, but it s something that you re holding onto.
3
SPEAKER_00
And
3
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Yeah, it was something that I held on to until I wrote it in my book.
3
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Because I know that has happened to so many other people.
3
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And ever since I ve released my book, so many people have written me letters and contacted me on social media or met my book signings.
4
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have went through the same experience and they were all thanking me for them not feeling alone and them being able to talk about it for the first time and hold people accountable for what they did to them.
4
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And why do you think we do that?
4
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Why do you think
4
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we don t keep those people accountable but we see it as our mistake or our like you know you walk away thinking i m such an idiot i m so stupid i shouldn t have done that like why do you think that is why is it that we just reflect it back onto ourselves seeing as you ve gone through things like that i don t know why we do that i wish i knew why
4
SPEAKER_00
But I think when people can talk about things like this and it makes others feel safe to be able to talk about it as well.
4
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And that s something that I m working on every day.
4
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Just all of this, this is like, I ve been healing, but there s so much there and I ve now put it out to the whole world and it s just, it s been, um,
4
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hard just talking about it and just thinking about it but again I know it s important for others to hear.
4
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We re so quick to judge others so when we hear about these things if it s never happened to us
4
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we always think, oh, but they could have avoided it.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then when it happens to you, you reflect that judgment onto yourself and you think, oh, I could have avoided it.
4
SPEAKER_01
And so it s almost like the more we judge others and we re quick to judge others, we actually judge ourselves more.
4
SPEAKER_01
And the more we judge ourselves more, the more we are judging others.
4
SPEAKER_01
And it kind of becomes this vicious cycle where
4
SPEAKER_01
We judge ourselves, we self-sabotage, we self-criticize.
4
SPEAKER_01
Then we judge others, we criticize them, we point fingers, and it just keeps going around.
4
SPEAKER_01
And it s almost like if we gave ourselves more grace, we d give others more grace.
4
SPEAKER_01
And if we gave others more grace, we d give ourselves more grace.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I do think that when people tell their stories, like I can t relate or say I ve gone through anything that you ve gone through, but hearing your story, and I m sure for the people who have been victims and have gone through these things,
4
SPEAKER_01
I m hoping that it creates a sense of empathy and compassion and grace for everyone, because I think the reason we don t tell everyone is because we think that they somehow think it was our fault.
4
SPEAKER_00
They ll judge you.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
And have you felt this time when you ve opened up through your book, do you still feel that there s been judgment back?
4
SPEAKER_01
Because I know in the past when things have happened, there s been a sense of,
4
SPEAKER_01
Like you ve talked about before, like the idea of when you re seen as a sex symbol, it s like, you re like, I like the symbol part because that s like iconic.
4
SPEAKER_01
But it s like when people start labeling you, would you say that this time when you re sharing the book, you felt that people have really received it well through the book as opposed to other ways?
4
SPEAKER_01
Or do you still find that there s still some judgment that s always going to be there?
4
SPEAKER_00
The reaction to the book has just been incredible, just overwhelming with so much love and support and just the things that people have said to me at the book signings and every single interview and people are just, it just feels amazing to finally be understood and have people respect me and
4
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have empathy and kindness and
4
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I feel because I had played a character for so long, people had no idea and now they know that there s so much more to me and that s been incredible.
4
SPEAKER_00
I haven t felt any negative energy at all.
4
SPEAKER_00
So that s just been the best feeling ever.
4
SPEAKER_01
That makes me so happy.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m so happy to hear that.
4
SPEAKER_01
Honestly, congratulations.
4
SPEAKER_01
You deserve that and little Paris deserves that too.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I m so happy to hear that because I think being understood is the hardest thing and
4
SPEAKER_01
especially being understood for the trauma that s unseen.
4
SPEAKER_01
Like everyone sees the page six or sees the front cover or sees whatever, but no one really.
4
SPEAKER_01
really sees the inner child that actually went through all of this, because that s the part of you that the character s covering.
4
SPEAKER_01
The character s not covering the truth, it s covering the inner child that s experiencing all of this and is not mature enough and not smart enough and not ready enough to endure so much suffering and so much pain.
4
SPEAKER_01
Does your inner child feel safer now?
4
SPEAKER_01
Or how do you think about your inner child with the healing work that you re doing?
4
SPEAKER_00
finally feel safe with everything.
4
SPEAKER_00
My husband is just so incredible.
4
SPEAKER_00
Having my little baby boy, I just feel that my life is complete.
4
SPEAKER_00
Finally, I just feel that I ve built a real life and I m just so proud of everything that I ve accomplished.
4
SPEAKER_00
And just reading my story, I m a survivor and I m a badass.
4
SPEAKER_01
I love that that s I mean it s you definitely are you definitely are it s uh but and and you see it you know it s like it s challenging because you know there s so many people that the media kind of naturally picks on in that way and sometimes it s good for business and sometimes it makes sense for the character and
4
SPEAKER_01
but there s always more going on.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I feel like you and, you know, even someone who s your close friend, like Britney Spears as well, like have both had the kind of tabloid clickbait articles, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I think you went to a wedding last year too, and you ve stayed strong, even though sometimes the media pits you against each other or does that, how have you managed?
4
SPEAKER_01
Because I feel like there s something really interesting that s happened in culture.
4
SPEAKER_01
When you started influencing, using that word from your book,
4
SPEAKER_01
There was a lot of like, even for actors back in the day and musicians, what I ve heard is it was like, well, you are the only influencer and everyone else can t be.
4
SPEAKER_01
If they come up, then you re going to go down.
4
SPEAKER_01
I had a lot of actors tell me that what they were told is you have to be the number one black actor.
4
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And if you re friends with the other black actor, then you can t be friends because people are going to choose one of you.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I feel like that happens in culture and race.
4
SPEAKER_01
It happens in careers.
4
SPEAKER_01
It happens in industries.
4
SPEAKER_01
How did you manage to keep a real friendship with Britney during a time when all of this is happening to both of you at the same time?
4
SPEAKER_01
Like, how do you keep a genuine relationship at that level where you re both these huge tabloid targets?
4
SPEAKER_02
When the Taliban banned music in Afghanistan, millions were plunged into silence.
4
SPEAKER_02
Radios were smashed, cassettes burned.
4
SPEAKER_02
You could be beaten or jailed or killed for breaking the rules.
4
SPEAKER_02
And yet, Afghans did it anyway.
4
SPEAKER_02
This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol.
4
SPEAKER_02
The danger they endured.
4
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They said my head should be cut off.
4
SPEAKER_02
the joy they brought to the nation.
4
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You re free completely.
4
SPEAKER_02
No one is there to destroy you.
4
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I m John Legend.
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Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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me because we understand each other and she s one of the kindest, most down-to-earth people and is just so lovely.
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I think it s important when women support each other because we re all in this together and
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I think the 2000s were definitely about trying to pit women against each other in the media.
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And they were so cruel to us and targeted us.
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And it was really difficult to have to deal with just the constant pressure from the media and people inventing stories and paparazzi chasing.
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And it was just.
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really crazy time.
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But it s important when then you can have friends around you that can understand that because they go through the similar experiences.
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Yeah, I think I think that s the hardest part, right?
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Like,
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There s only like 1% of people who are having any given experience and that applies across the board.
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And it s like, if you re not friends with people who are going through the same thing and have the courage to open up to each other, you can feel so alone.
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And it s amazing that you ve been able to maintain that because
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it almost feels like as more rumors get told, you re more scared.
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Would you say that s fair?
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Do you feel as more comes out about you that s not true, you become more fearful of how people view you?
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I think in the book you talk about one point, like every room I go into, I know what people have seen or what they know.
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I guess my question is, how has that stopped you from just closing off and hiding and actually going, well, no, I m still going to be who I want to be.
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Because I can imagine that when you walk in already feeling like you have a big sign on your forehead, it s hard to walk into new places.
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But you keep doing it with business.
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You keep walking into boardrooms.
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You keep walking into new environments.
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How have you
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you found that strength?
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Just from being in this business for so long and also what I went through as a teenager at these schools just made me, I think prepared me for Hollywood in a way because I had just been through such abuse that literally I could take anything.
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You build a tough skin when you re constantly around this.
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For sure.
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The abuse in the schools was worse.
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Yes.
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So it definitely prepared me for anything.
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Are you still friends with anyone who went to the schools that you kind of stayed connected with and have they kind of found themselves again or?
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I reconnected with some of the people that I was there with.
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And it s just been amazing just to
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come together and tell our stories and just have made so much impact.
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And now I ve changed laws in nine states and now going back to Washington, D.C.
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in two weeks to introduce our new bill to push for federal legislation.
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So it s just been really empowering just to
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meet with people that have been through the same thing as me and who knew me before all of this.
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And now to really have used our voices and are now saving children s lives.
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I m, I m so glad that we re talking about this on, on purpose because I feel like that is such a journey of paying into purpose.
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And I think you said it in your book that actually when you started helping and doing this work and
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Not just doing this work of trying to help the people who went there, but trying to change laws so that people never end up there in the first place.
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That approach is
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when you actually started to feel like you were healing.
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Like when you actually not just trying to heal yourself, but when you re trying to help others, that s when you really felt it.
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Can you walk us through how hard it is to try and push forward a new bill or change legislation in nine states?
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Like, can you walk us through like just how technically challenging that is and what you come up against?
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Because I don t think, we always hear these announcements, but I don t think people know what goes into that.
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This is every day of my life.
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I m working.
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I have Rebecca Melendro, who s my head of impact at 1111 Media.
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And we are constantly speaking with senators, traveling.
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Going and telling my story.
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I ve been back and forth to D.C.
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and this is a multibillion dollar industry.
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So there s the schools.
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Yes.
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There s thousands of these schools.
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There s hundreds of children that have died in these places.
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Just the reports we have of abuse and people.
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There s no regulations.
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And it s just a lot having to go in there and
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and really push for this because people don t understand.
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They don t know what s happening behind closed doors.
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And since it s such a profitable industry, it s also difficult because there s so many people that are trying to fight us against it.
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But when I actually go there and speak to them face to face and they hear the stories of myself and the other survivors that I bring with me,
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that s when they understand what s happening.
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And when people know that that s happening, they can t just ignore it.
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So everyone that we ve been speaking to, when they hear and we actually go there, that s when it really makes a difference.
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And I think that s why we ve been so impactful.
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What do you say to survivors or of the schools or even people that you meet who ve been through abuse?
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Like, what do you, what do you,
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What, how can a friend help someone, a friend in their life who s gone through some sort of abuse?
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Like, how do you be a good friend to that?
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Because I can imagine that a lot of people are listening right now going, I don t know what to say to my friends.
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Cause I don t, I ve never been through it.
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I don t know how to connect.
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Like what s helpful.
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I think it s just helpful to know that they can tell you and that you ll be there for them and not judge them and let them know it s not their fault.
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And just being able to talk about it and having a safe space where you can make them feel supported and just know that you re there for them and whatever they need.
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And what do you think like really creates that safe space?
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Because I feel for so many people, we think we re so close to so many people, but you almost figure out that you re not.
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There s only a few people you can, and then you even name some of your closest friends who ve kind of been through the same stuff.
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But like, what really defines a safe space for you?
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You know, what is, you ve talked about the relationship that you have with Carter, your husband, and the space you have right now, but what has made it safer?
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Like what s actually created that environment differently now than you ve ever had?
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because I have people around me that I can trust.
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And it s definitely about knowing that when you say something, that people are not going to go and repeat it.
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So that s something that
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I ve just learned over the years, even before I would test people in my life and tell them some fake rumor and then just see if it would end up in page six or in the media.
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And that was a big test back in the day that I would do with people.
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And a lot of people failed that test.
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And now I have, I don t have anyone around me that I would even have to worry about that with.
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And that s something that s really important to me is trust because trust and loyalty is priceless to me.
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That s such a great test.
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Yeah.
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That s such a great test.
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Yeah.
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If anyone s wondering, if you have a real friend, tell them a fake rumor about yourself and see if it comes back to you.
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Exactly.
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That s like, wow.
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What was the fakest thing you ever said?
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Do you remember?
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What was like a rumor that, like the ones you push the boundaries on?
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I don t even remember.
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Maybe just like, oh, there was like a guy or something.
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Like, I have no idea.
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Just something stupid.
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And then it would end up and I would be like, oh, man.
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How does it feel?
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Because at one point in your book, I think, you know, you talk about this reputation that you developed in the media of like, oh, she sleeps around.
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She s always with lots of men.
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And then it s like, and you re like, well, that just wasn t the case.
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Was there a part of you that it was just, that was part of the character and it worked?
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Or was there a part of you that just felt, no, that s not true.
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I want people to know, like how, how did you process that?
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I just knew that it wasn t true.
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And in the media, anytime I was seen with someone at a party or whatever, whatever people would just assume that that was the case, but no one had any idea what I had went through that had made me.
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really fearful.
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Like even though I was known as the sex symbol, I didn t feel that way inside at all.
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And I was so scared to let people in.
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That s why a lot of my relationships didn t work because I was like a teenager in a way where I only would want to kiss and make out and that was it.
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And a lot of people wouldn t be able for themselves to stay loyal because all I would do is kiss and they wanted more.
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And then the media, they just assumed that it was a lot more wilder than it really was because in reality it was actually quite innocent.
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Yeah.
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And did you just accept that?
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You just realized you couldn t change that narrative and it was going to be what it was going to be?
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Or was it something you didn t pay attention to?
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I just try just to not pay attention to things.
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I just feel that the media just always was constantly inventing rumors about me.
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And I just felt like a target a lot of the times because I felt that it was myself and then a certain group of girls that they would do this to.
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What I find the most amazing thing is even in this interview, so many times you ve said, I m in a better place now.
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I m in a, and I know you re saying there s still healing.
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I know you re not saying it s figured out and it s perfect.
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I don t, I don t think that s what you re saying.
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Uh, but what I m hearing is like, you know, I ve worked through things, I ve found a good partner, like I m in a healthy space.
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I think the hardest, hardest thing after going through all of these things from an outside perspective is, how do you trust another man?
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It s like you ve had all these men who ve abused you, mistreated you, who ve exploited you with the sex tape, who ve used your image in ways without even ever consulting or any sort of...
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consent and complete, you know, so, and it s like, you ve gone through all of this.
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How do you even think about dating someone later and marrying someone for real?
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Like, because I feel like that requires so much of yourself.
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And although you re sitting here and obviously, you know, you re a new mom and like, and I m so happy, but I can only imagine that I ve had, and I ve had people, by the way, ask me this question when I m on tour,
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where they ll say to me, Jay, I ve just been so abused or misused or mistreated.
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How do I love again?
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How do I trust again?
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How have you continued to believe in real love and real trust and loyalty when you ve seen the complete opposite your whole life?
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It was extremely difficult just not being
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able to let anyone in for so long.
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With Carter, I wasn t even looking for love at this point.
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This was back in 2019.
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I went home to the Hamptons for Thanksgiving.
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And I saw Carter that day at Thanksgiving lunch.
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And he was just so sweet and kind of his mom.
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And it was just so different than all the other guys.
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And he s a Midwestern boy from a town of 800 people.
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and he s just like this sweet nerdy like cute like just kind person who s doesn t care about fame or any of this he s just
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so the opposite of everyone that I ve ever known and just has this incredible family values and is just this angel.
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Like I really believe that my grandmother and his dad are up in heaven and planned for us to meet because right away it was just so different and this like electricity that I had never felt.
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And it was literally like we were inseparable right away.
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moved in with each other and then the world shut down in March.
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So then we were really together.
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Before that, I d been on the road and traveling over 250 days out of the year for two decades.
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So I never really had time to get to know someone because I was always on a plane.
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So just having to be in one place and not the world shutting down, and it was just me and him together.
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And I feel like times during COVID, like one year of that is like seven years of like my normal life, because my life is usually so busy with everything I m doing.
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So
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all of that has just been like, I don t know, it s just been so different than any other relationship where I just felt like this is my destiny.
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That s beautiful.
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Congratulations.
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So happy to hear that.
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I can see you come to life and there s a, there s a, there s a glow when you re talking about Kyle, which is, which is really beautiful to see, but how, how and when did you start feeling comfortable with talking to him about
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what had gone on because I m guessing that was a safe space probably the first time you d felt it from someone you were close to.
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What was that process like?
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Because I can imagine it s also really scary to be like, I found a really great thing.
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Now I m going to share what my real trauma is and challenges is and how does this affect like, will that person stay?
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Will they run away?
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These are like the real things real people think about.
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How did you get
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How did you start sharing what you d been through?
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And when did you start feeling like you wanted to do that?
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It was just, I feel that timing is everything.
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And I had just finished filming my documentary when we started dating.
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So I was already going through this whole just,
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like emotional journey.
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And then I showed him my documentary and he was the first person I had showed it to.
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So he learned so much about me from that.
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And then he just started asking me so many questions.
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And since I had already opened about it in the film, I felt like that really prepared me for being able to speak about it in real life to people.
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Do you remember an interesting question he asked you about your experience that you felt like really brought you both closer together?
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Like, was there something specific that he asked about that when you, and what was your answer and one that something that brought you closer together than you were before that?
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Yeah, I think it was just.
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the way he was, he just actually listened.
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And he started crying during certain parts of our conversation because he felt just so emotional for what I had went through.
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And just to see someone care that much really just made me trust him even more, just to know that he
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cared so much to even, I don t know, have a conversation like that.
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Cause I feel like I had never really had such a deep conversation with someone before.
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You said that you don t cry about a lot of this much anymore, but when did you really allow yourself to cry about it and feel it through?
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When was that opportunity you gave yourself?
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A lot of times I would cry just, just,
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after going through things in life and just feeling so alone, just coming home at the end of the night and having no one to talk to about it, um, just a lot of times in my life.
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And especially after my documentary and writing my book, just rereading all of that has just been, um, so emotional just to have to feel it all.
6
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Yeah, yeah, you even spoke about hiding your pregnancy from your family and that was something that you and Carter kind of kept to yourself.
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When I first learned about that, I was like, that was so interesting to me because it seems like, in one sense, your life since you were young has been so public and so broadcasted and so overly commented upon and been out there and then almost you re having this really precious, personal, beautiful moment.
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And my interpretation was that it was a protection of like, no, this needs to be personal and private and sacred and special.
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Is that what was going through your mind of why you wanted it to be so private?
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How did that decision come about where it s like, no, well, actually, this is the one thing that is going to be that way?
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I just felt that my life has been so public for over two decades of being in this whole industry.
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With my baby, I just felt that this was something that I didn t want all the outside opinions in the world or just the online trolls or anyone talking about my son until he was here in this world and healthy and safe.
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And I just, I don t know.
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I just feel like I wanted to keep that for me.
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So no one knew about it until he was literally a week old.
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Wow, what s the pleasure in public broadcast and what s the sweetness in private, sacred, personal experience?
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Talk to me about the difference of the joy you get from like being in media and being on stage, being in front and center, and then what s the difference in how it feels when you get to have a special experience like that?
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I just want everyone to hear because I think those are two things we crave and chase.
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For me, I love to make other people happy and feel that energy and love.
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And it s just an amazing feeling.
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But then to be with my baby boy and just have him laying on my chest and looking up at me at night with his innocent eyes and just
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this little sweet, precious angel who s just my world.
6
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So there are two different feelings.
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Like one is just exciting, but then the other one is actually just true, real love.
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And I feel that for so long, I always considered all of that type of attention, love, but now I know what real love truly is.
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Well, yeah, that hit.
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That hit.
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I want everyone to take that away, that we often think of attention as love.
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We think of validation as love.
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We think of compliments as love.
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but love actually isn t any of that.
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Those are just almost like fake currency or fake money.
6
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And yeah, real love is what you re experiencing now with your baby boy and with Carter and with yourself at the deepest level.
6
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Like, do you feel that, we hear these words like self-love and self-care all the time now, they re all over the world, but how do you define self-love now?
6
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Like, do you feel like this is the first time in your life that you ve allowed yourself to love yourself or,
6
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Have you loved yourself throughout all of this?
6
SPEAKER_00
It s the first time I ve gotten to know myself so therefore I could really love myself because I felt that for so long I was just very lost and I had been through so much that I was just living such this fast-paced life that I never even had time to think about anything and I think I purposely
6
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made myself so busy that I wouldn t have time to think about anything that that I d went through in my life.
6
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And now I ve just, I ve gotten, getting to know myself and just feel so many different feelings.
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Now I truly can love and know every part of me.
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Absolutely, absolutely.
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How are you hoping to be as a mother now?
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You ve had an interesting relationship with your own family, which you talk about in the book so much.
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I think we all have complex relationships with our own parents and family.
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we love them, we appreciate them, and then there s certain decisions, there s a, you know, you talk about how like, you know, at one point you wish that your parents would just say, sorry, we did that, but then you ve learned to understand that they may never get there.
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How does that, how have you become okay with that?
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We ll get to the mothering part, but how have you become okay with that?
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Because I think for a lot of people, that s the hardest thing, where it s like, my parents were wrong, they made a mistake, they should be sorry, they should be accountable, but you re actually saying, I do feel all those ways, but at the same time,
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I actually feel like that s okay.
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That s their journey and that s their story.
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And I m okay with that.
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How do you, cause that s a real nuanced, subtle place to be.
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How do you, how do you become okay with that?
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For me, just knowing everything I know now, I think for when I was a teenager and I was sent away, I,
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was so just sad and I was angry, but now being an adult and just doing all my research and now finding out that these schools are completely manipulative and they lie to the families and have all this false advertising.
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fake brochures and just it s such an evil industry and my parents had no idea and they were tricked and that s something that I realize now and so I can t be angry at them because they were just trying to do what they thought was right.
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Yeah.
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That, that requires a lot of maturity though.
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Like that requires a lot of looking at the context because I find like when you don t have that context, it s so easy to be in conflict with someone.
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But when you actually create that context and you zoom out and you go, wow, like this is a big industry.
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So many people have been brainwashed.
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So many people have been marketed to, and so many people have been made to believe that this is the best thing for their kids to the point that you re on the phone and they re still saying, no, no, no, just work the program.
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And
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how does that affect how you wanna be a mother?
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Because I can imagine that it makes you wanna be really protective, but at the same time, you ve also lived a life where you know the benefits of exploring.
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You talk about in the book multiple times of you re happy you partied, you re happy you went out, you re not upset with that.
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And then it s like, how do you think about with becoming a mother and how you plan on raising a child?
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How do you think about
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protecting versus also exploring and curiosity and how you help a child with all those crazy decisions we all have to make.
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Now that I m a parent, I can completely understand just
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If I had a daughter and she was sneaking out in the middle of the night in New York City and I had no idea where she was, I would be so terrified.
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So I can completely understand just how my parents were just scared because they were just trying to protect me.
7
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And I think that s a hard part because you just want to protect your children so much.
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I think when you re so strict, it just makes them want to rebel.
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So I don t know.
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I think I m definitely going to be strict.
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I d hope that my little phoenix does not rebel, but at least I ll be more prepared because of everything that I ve went through.
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And also I won t be able to be tricked about sneaking out or any of that because I know everything.
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But I m hoping that he will just feel so safe that he ll be able to tell me anything or he won t want to hide anything because I think that s when kids will sneak out or do things or lie because they feel like they can t talk to you.
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Yeah.
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I think that s what it is.
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That really resonated for me.
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Every kid in the world is going to make bad mistakes and bad choices and bad decisions.
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I mean, I don t know anyone who hasn t, but
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if you feel safe enough and comfortable enough to tell your parents and you don t feel like you have to hide from them, then you can actually solve stuff with them and you don t feel judged by them.
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That makes the world of a difference.
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Yeah, it s funny what you said there.
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You re like, he s never going to be able to get away with anything because you re the ultimate.
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He is your son, so you never know.
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He s going to be super smart as well and know exactly how to play the game.
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Exactly.
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You said in your documentary that you don t believe you will be truly happy until you have $1 billion.
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How s that goal changed?
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How has that metric changed?
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I think before I had such a focus on
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money because I really saw that as freedom.
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Because that was something I said to myself, when I get out of here, I m going to become so successful, make so much money that no one will be able to control me or tell me what to do.
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But now I ve just become so successful and everything I ve created with my media company and all of that.
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And I m so proud, but that s not my main focus.
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I care more about babies than billions.
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Babies over billions.
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Yes.
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Or I can have both.
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I love that.
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One of the things that really struck me in your book, and I m happy to hear that shift in goal, that s beautiful.
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I think one of the things that shifted, you said this, you talked about how you got robbed of time.
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And then you said, the only way you got through, and I thought this was so true and so powerful, and that s why I want to share it with everyone.
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You said, the only way you got through the school, specifically you re talking about the school at that time, but assuming pretty much everything in your teens that you went through in your 20s, you said, I created a future world, a future self, and a future life without boundaries, and that s how you survived.
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Can you walk us through what that means?
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Like, how were you in this, almost in prison, like it sounds that way, the way you described it, but creating a future world, a future self and a future life?
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What does that look like when you re in prison chaos, like pain?
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How are you doing that?
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I was just so just
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sad and depressed.
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And it was just so horrible of what I was going through every single day that I just started just creating in my mind of this whole life that I wanted and what I wanted to do.
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And I got out of there and
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just building this kind of almost fantasy life of who I could be.
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And I really do believe in manifestation and really manifesting who you can become because I really believe that I did that.
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And it all started from just so much pain and then wanting to turn it into something positive.
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how much of it happened the way you imagined it versus how much of it has actually been better than you imagined or less than, because yeah, I d love to know.
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I just, I always had big dreams, but I had no idea it would ever be on this level.
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And it was just, it s been such a journey, just everything that I ve went through, like,
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When I was a little girl, I wanted to be a veterinarian and then moved to New York and just saw just this whole other world of business and everything.
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And I think that just sitting there and having time just to really think about everything.
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And I always dreamed of having one perfume and now I m about to release my 30th.
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And it s just that I feel like everything I ve really put my mind to has came true.
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And that was just your focus.
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So when you re in that school facility and you re going through all of this, your mind s just there.
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Is that literally you just sit there and visualize it?
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It was like an escape, definitely.
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Otherwise it would have just been so hard to go through if I didn t have dreams of what I wanted to do.
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And would you say that was the same technique with one of the things that hit me was like, you know, you felt good things happening in a role before.
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And then, you know, specifically in the example, when you re talking about simple life comes out, it s good.
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It s going to come out.
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It s you re excited about it.
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The sex tape comes out straight off to all of a sudden, everyone s, you know, tearing you apart, taking you down.
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It s,
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the worst things happen where, you know, it s put up in a grocery store sign.
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You know, there s, you talk about all of this in the book and I m thinking, you re just feeling like you ve got through the tough time, your life s on track.
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And then all of a sudden it s like this, something goes back in your face again.
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I m like, how did you just, I constantly, when I was reading the book, I was just like, how do you get up from this?
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Right?
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Like, was it again, the same visualization and manifestation?
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that helps you break through that?
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Or what helps you overcome and reframe that?
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Because I think that would just knock people out forever.
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That was one of the most painful experiences to go through, just to have been with someone and really loved and trusted them.
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something that was one night of your life where you never thought anyone would see it.
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And then the whole world is watching it and judging and just being so cruel.
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And it was just,
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mortifying and I didn t leave my house for like months and I didn t want to see anyone.
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I canceled the press tour for The Simple Life.
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I just was, it was so just painful to go through that and just to have the whole world just knowing that everyone was watching it.
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And it just felt like he took away something from me because I,
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I d always looked up to these amazing women and like Princess Diana.
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And I just felt that because of what he did to me, the whole world would always assume that I was something that I wasn t just based upon.
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One Night was someone who I really trusted.
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What s the first step you took outside your house?
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What gave you the courage to do it?
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And how did you realize, I m not going to let that person define my narrative?
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It definitely took a while for me to feel brave enough to go out there.
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And my first thing that I did was actually Saturday Night Live with Jimmy Fallon.
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And I feel like I took control of the narrative there just with that script, with how they wrote it.
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I thought it was just really... Yeah, you share in the book really well.
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a funny way to, I don t know how to describe it, but I just felt like I was taking control of my narrative in that way.
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Yeah, when I read your story and when I listen to them, like here s someone who has just never backed down, like never given up.
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And I think this book, which I encourage everyone who s listening to read, I really do because I think when we see things in the news, they re very different to when you see it from the viewpoint of the person going through it.
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Yeah.
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I just want everyone to think about for a second just how you feel when your friends think something differently than the truth.
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Or how you feel when your parents or maybe you live in a bigger community and they all think something of you that wasn t true or they see something about you and they react to it differently.
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And you know inside of you how you feel when your narrative is taken away from you and it s stripped away from you and another narrative is placed on you.
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I think everyone in the world knows what that feels like on some scale and some level.
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And I hope that it allows us to
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see that nuance in everyone else it s not saying that anyone s perfect or anyone s amazing it s saying that can we just accept that there are two sides to every story that there are there s countless hidden truths that we never discovered that we re not aware of
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And that there s nuance to everything, there s subtleties to everything, and that everything isn t how it s made to seem in the way it s presented.
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And if we could just give people the benefit of the doubt, we ll probably give ourselves the benefit of the doubt as well.
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Definitely.
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Don t judge a book by its cover.
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Yeah, and we all do that all the time.
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Paris, it has been such a joy talking to you today because I really appreciate your trust.
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I know you haven t done a lot of interviews and you haven t, I really appreciate and value your trust and your team s trust in me and having this conversation with me today, it really means a lot to me having read your book to actually get to sit with you.
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And we end every episode with a final five.
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These are five questions that have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.
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So short answers.
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You re very good at taglines and all the rest of it, so this should be easy for you.
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But Paris Hilton, these are your final five.
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Question number one is, what is the best advice you ve ever heard or received?
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You only live once, so make the most of it.
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Okay.
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And what s the worst, second question, what s the worst advice you ve ever heard or received?
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The worst advice that I ve ever seen is when people say they care so much about the opinions of others.
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And I feel that in my life that I used to just care so much about what others think.
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And I think it s just important to care only about people in your life that love and care about you think and not others who are not good people.
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Question number three, how would you define your current purpose?
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My current purpose is to make the world a safer place for children.
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Oh, that s a beautiful purpose.
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Thank you for doing that.
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Like I m, I feel so grateful that that s your purpose.
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I think that s such a need in the world right now and the legislations and the bills and you know, it s, that s the only way it s really going to happen to, to make sure that it doesn t happen in the first place in a proactive way.
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So that s really beautiful.
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If you had a message or an intention or a something you would say to the people that have hurt you and made you feel like you were the one who had to be shamed and embarrassed, what would you say to them?
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You should be ashamed of what you ve done.
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And I hope that you read this book and you never do it again.
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Thank you, great answer again.
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I think it s so interesting to really feel remorseful and to really
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feel sorry means to really try your best to live through the pain you cause someone.
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I don t think you can, you can never really take, you can never take back what you did and you can never, to be honest, your sorry and your remorse can never really
8
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repay the other person and i m guessing you ve had to do all this work without any apologies or remorse right or has there ever been any apology or remorse from any of these people or never no never
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I think that s the, uh, that s probably one of the most incredible lessons from this book is that there s a famous quote that says we should learn to accept apologies that we ve never received.
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And it seems like that s what your work is doing, that you ve learned to accept apologies that actually never came your way.
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And I love what you said about people reading the book to really understand how much they
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potentially wreck and ruin someone s life, especially a young person.
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Fifth and final question.
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You ll like this one.
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If you could create one law in the world that everyone had to follow, what would it be?
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My law would be that everyone has to do one kind thing every single day.
8
Beautiful.
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I feel that the more things that people do, the better place the world will be.
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I love that.
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Paris, thank you for being here.
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Thank you for writing this book.
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I want to ask you a question.
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Is there anything that...
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anything that s on your heart and mind that I haven t asked you about that you really wanted to share that, want to open it up, give you that space.
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Is there anything you d like to share?
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Anything I haven t asked you that you feel is really front of mind or front of heart for you?
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Doesn t have to be.
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I can t think of anything.
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Great, that s good.
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That s a good thing.
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That makes me happy.
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That makes me happy.
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I just wanted to honor it because I really feel you ve been so giving and kind and generous through your story.
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And I want everyone out there who s listening and watching to
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Go and grab a copy of the book, Paris, the memoir, give it to a friend who s gone through something or.
8
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you might know they ve gone through something and they re not sure how to process it, and they re thinking about it, they re struggling with it.
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I think that this book is gonna open up some incredible conversations about abuse, about ADHD, about connection to our families and parents, about rediscovering ourselves, and I hope it starts that conversation for you and your friends.
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Paris, thank you again.
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Thank you.
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Thank you.
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So happy that I came on this.
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You re awesome.
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Thank you, you re very sweet.
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Thank you so much, I appreciate it.
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If you loved this episode, you ll really enjoy my episode with Selena Gomez on befriending your inner critic and how to speak to yourself with more compassion.
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Hey, everyone, this is Molly and Matt, and we re the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart Podcasts.
9
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It s a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting.
9
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Like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone and so much more.
9
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Let s learn about all of it and then some.
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Listen to Grown Up Stuff How to Adult on America s number one podcast network, iHeart.
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Open your free iHeart app and search Grown Up Stuff.