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SPEAKER_00
 Bring a little optimism into your life with The Bright Side, a new kind of daily podcast from Hello Sunshine, hosted by me, Danielle Robay.
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SPEAKER_00
And me, Simone Boyce.
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SPEAKER_00
Every weekday, we're bringing you conversations about culture, the latest trends, inspiration, and so much more.
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SPEAKER_04
I am so excited about this podcast, The Bright Side.
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SPEAKER_04
You guys are giving people a chance to shine a light on their lives, shine a light on a little advice that they want to share.
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SPEAKER_06
 Listen to The Bright Side on America's number one podcast network, iHeart.
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SPEAKER_06
Open your free iHeart app and search The Bright Side.
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SPEAKER_07
 Discover a new educational and interactive podcast, Stories for Kids by Lingokids.
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Our episodes are packed with fun activities.
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SPEAKER_07
Right, Elliot?
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SPEAKER_07
Oh, yes.
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SPEAKER_07
We went shape hunting around the block, and we found spheres and cubes on the street.
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SPEAKER_07
That was great fun.
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SPEAKER_07
Join Stories for Kids, the Lingokids podcast, inspiring you to learn while having fun.
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SPEAKER_07
Listen to Stories for Kids on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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SPEAKER_01
 Hey everyone, this is Molly and Matt, and we're the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart Podcasts.
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SPEAKER_05
It's a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting.
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SPEAKER_01
Like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone, and so much more.
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SPEAKER_05
Let's learn about all of it and then some.
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SPEAKER_05
Listen to Grown Up Stuff How to Adult on America's number one podcast network, iHeart.
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SPEAKER_05
Open your free iHeart app and search Grown Up Stuff.
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SPEAKER_03
 Oh my goodness, I have been waiting for this day.
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SPEAKER_03
Jay and I are so excited to announce that this fall, we will be launching our very own hot tea brand called, drum roll please, Lusama.
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SPEAKER_03
Herbal tea has been part of my daily rituals for such a long time now.
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SPEAKER_03
I choose different teas throughout the day, depending on how my body feels, my mood, my intention.
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SPEAKER_03
It's really the first thing that I drink in the morning and the last thing that I drink at night.
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SPEAKER_03
 Luckily, Jay is exactly the same.
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SPEAKER_03
So we have a moment together every morning, every night, sipping on tea.
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SPEAKER_03
Over the last year, having a ritual that brings a little moment of peace, comfort and presence has been so important.
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SPEAKER_03
It reminds me of being at home with my family in London, sitting by the fire, laughing, sipping on tea, which is a feeling I have been missing a lot.
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SPEAKER_03
It's been hard to find that feeling of comfort and of acceptance in the chaos lately.
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SPEAKER_03
But honestly, a cup of tea has most definitely helped.
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SPEAKER_03
 There's so much more I want to share with you, but for now, go ahead and sign up today at SamaTea.com and enter to win a signed, limited edition sampler box full of vibrant, delicious, fantastic teas that will inspire moments of mindfulness.
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SPEAKER_08
If you're listening to this and you're in an unhappy situation, I get it.
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SPEAKER_08
I get how hard it is.
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SPEAKER_08
One of the things that can help is to say, this demon would come out with another person too.
0
SPEAKER_09
 Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world.
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SPEAKER_09
Thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow.
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SPEAKER_09
And I'm so excited to be talking to you today.
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SPEAKER_09
I can't believe it.
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SPEAKER_09
My new book, Eight Rules of Love is out and
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SPEAKER_09
 I cannot wait to share it with you.
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SPEAKER_09
I am so, so excited for you to read this book, for you to listen to this book.
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SPEAKER_09
I read the audiobook.
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SPEAKER_09
If you haven't got it already, make sure you go to 8rulesoflove.com.
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SPEAKER_09
It's dedicated to anyone who's trying to find, keep, or let go of love.
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SPEAKER_09
So if you've got friends that are dating, broken up, or struggling with love, make sure you grab this book.
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SPEAKER_09
And I'd love to invite you to come and see me for my global tour, Love Rules.
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SPEAKER_09
 Go to jscheddytour.com to learn more information about tickets, VIP experiences, and more.
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SPEAKER_09
I can't wait to see you this year.
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SPEAKER_09
Now you know that I love sitting down with experts, people that have dedicated their life, their time, and their years to understanding more about human behavior, human dynamics, and understanding how our mind works.
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SPEAKER_09
And today I'm sitting down with someone that I've wanted to meet for a long, long time.
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SPEAKER_09
I've watched his YouTube videos for years.
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SPEAKER_09
 I've been a fan of his content for many, many years on Instagram and other platforms.
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SPEAKER_09
We've been trying to get together and we finally made it happen.
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I'm talking about none other than New York Times bestselling author, international speaker, and dating expert, Matthew Hussey.
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SPEAKER_09
Matthew, thank you for being here, man.
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SPEAKER_09
What's up, man?
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SPEAKER_09
Thanks for having me.
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SPEAKER_08
 I share the sentiment.
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SPEAKER_08
I wanted to do this for years and somehow the planets never aligned until now.
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SPEAKER_09
I know.
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SPEAKER_09
I remember messaging with you on Instagram.
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SPEAKER_09
I think I was actually in London at the time a few years back and there was a video that we were going to do together.
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SPEAKER_09
It was one of these dating videos that you were doing and you're like, oh, do you want to?
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SPEAKER_09
And I was in London, but I don't know how we kept missing each other.
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SPEAKER_08
Yeah, we even had a brief phone call where we like connected and got on really well.
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SPEAKER_08
And I know we're both mutual friends of Lewis Howes and it just, yeah, it's fun though to finally be in the same room and do this.
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SPEAKER_08
It's fun.
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SPEAKER_09
 Yeah.
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SPEAKER_09
And I feel like it's a momentous occasion because England's playing in the final on Sunday and we're like, we've been brought together as two Brits.
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SPEAKER_09
Uh, and I, have you decided where you're watching the final or you don't know?
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SPEAKER_08
I have to be in true introverted fashion.
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SPEAKER_08
I have to be at home.
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SPEAKER_08
Like, I like being with my family because I do like the energy of people who really care.
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SPEAKER_08
 yeah what drives me mad is when you've got people who have no idea what they're talking about yelling at a screen during a match yeah and i genuinely love hearing all of the commentary yeah so like i'm one of those people i'm i'm a fight fan like boxing and so on when there's a big boxing match i'm like all right everyone can come over but just
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SPEAKER_08
 I want to hear the commentary.
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SPEAKER_08
So like, I don't, I hate that bar environment of everyone yelling at the screen.
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SPEAKER_08
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_09
So yeah, I get that.
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SPEAKER_09
Yeah, no, I've, I've actually, I lead a spiritual book club on Sunday and half of it is bang in the first half of the game.
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SPEAKER_09
So I'm only going to get to watch the second half.
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SPEAKER_08
It's hard for me to imagine anything more different than the energy of English fans back home than a spiritual book club.
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SPEAKER_09
 Literally, this is like a really, it's like an intimate, it's a group of friends that I lead a spiritual book club for.
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SPEAKER_09
Happens every Sunday and it's 11 to 1, so 11 to 12 I'm going to be doing.
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SPEAKER_09
Sorry, 11 to 1 and so the game starts at 12 here.
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SPEAKER_09
Man, that's funny.
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SPEAKER_09
Yeah, I'll get the second half.
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SPEAKER_09
But no, thank you for being here, man.
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SPEAKER_09
And like I said, I've watched your videos for years, seen your interviews, seen your books, not seen you on stage in person.
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SPEAKER_09
I look forward to being able to do that.
0
SPEAKER_09
 But I wanted to start with the question, I'm not sure if I've seen you been asked this before, but I wanted to ask you, what's your favorite love story ever?
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SPEAKER_09
Or is there one that you have?
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SPEAKER_09
Whether it's a real life one, a client, a personal experience, a book, what's your favorite story of love?
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SPEAKER_08
That is a really tricky question.
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SPEAKER_08
There's a movie I saw recently,
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SPEAKER_08
 It's a Japanese movie called Weathering With You.
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SPEAKER_08
I've not seen that.
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SPEAKER_08
It's an animated movie.
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SPEAKER_08
This guy, he created what was at one time the biggest grossing anime of all time.
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SPEAKER_08
But this movie Weathering With You is about a young guy and a girl who are, you know, in this kind of, this young love.
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SPEAKER_08
There's this kind of mythical story where she, it's constantly raining in Tokyo.
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SPEAKER_08
 and she has the power to make the rain go away they call her a sunshine girl but and everyone she's so prized because she's the sunshine girl and so she's constantly called upon by people who are running events or fireworks displays or whatever to come along and make it stop raining only and I
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SPEAKER_08
 spoiler alert for anyone who's not seen weathering with you, by the way, I'll come back in three minutes.
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SPEAKER_08
But there's a, every time she does it, she, she start a piece of herself starts to disappear.
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SPEAKER_08
And it gets to the point where she completely floats up into the sky and no longer has a presence here on earth because she's given so much as the sunshine girl.
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SPEAKER_08
 And there's a moment where he goes to save her from up in the clouds because he realizes she can't, you know, even if she comes back down to earth and never does another thing as a sunshine girl, and all it does is rain all day, he still chooses her.
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SPEAKER_08
And the, for me at least, I'm not saying the director meant this, but
0
SPEAKER_08
 It's so beautiful because it felt to me like a story of a person who is accepting that even if being with you means that it's raining, I still choose you.
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SPEAKER_08
I don't just choose you when the sun is shining.
0
SPEAKER_08
And there's something stunningly beautiful to me about that because that's
0
SPEAKER_08
 It's a much more grown up kind of love than the one that we tend to look for in our 20s.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_08
Or as teenagers and some of us for the rest of our lives.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_08
Where, you know, we love someone as long as the sun is shining.
0
SPEAKER_08
But when when the chips are down and when things are tough, they start reassessing everything.
0
SPEAKER_09
 That was a beautiful answer.
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SPEAKER_09
I love that.
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SPEAKER_09
That was wonderful.
0
SPEAKER_09
I mean, like, I love movies too.
0
SPEAKER_09
So when you said a movie and I've not seen that movie, so that sounds amazing.
0
SPEAKER_09
I love that.
0
SPEAKER_09
What a great love story.
0
SPEAKER_09
And yeah, now, now I don't know.
0
SPEAKER_09
Should I still watch the movie?
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SPEAKER_08
I really enjoy it.
0
SPEAKER_08
And there's another movie he did prior to that called Your Name.
0
SPEAKER_08
 And there's something very beautiful about his movies.
0
SPEAKER_08
Yeah, I would check them out.
0
SPEAKER_09
Yeah, okay, I'll take a look.
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SPEAKER_09
Yeah, no, I love that.
0
SPEAKER_09
And it's so interesting with what you referred to there, this idea of the view we have of love and relationships in our teens, in our 20s, or like you said, for some people, their whole life.
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SPEAKER_09
How do you think your view of love has changed while helping people create, find, keep love?
0
SPEAKER_09
I mean, you know, you've been on this amazing journey.
0
SPEAKER_09
You've been doing this for what?
0
SPEAKER_09
 Decade now?
0
SPEAKER_09
15 years.
0
SPEAKER_09
15 years, right.
0
SPEAKER_09
Okay.
0
SPEAKER_09
So you've been doing this for 15 years.
0
SPEAKER_09
How has your view of love changed over the last 15 years of actually working with people and speaking on stages, being interviewed in all these places?
0
SPEAKER_08
 I suppose getting older myself, and I realize I'm still relatively speaking a young man, but getting older myself, it's become much more apparent to me the importance of reevaluating what is actually important in a partner.
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SPEAKER_08
 And we tend to, our younger selves, we do have this list of things that we think we want that seem important.
0
SPEAKER_08
It might be charisma.
0
SPEAKER_08
It might be the fact that, you know, someone is super sexy because they can speak three languages or that, you know, they've achieved a certain status in their life or an award or,
0
SPEAKER_08
 whatever, they can play the guitar.
0
SPEAKER_08
And we rate these things as these things.
0
SPEAKER_08
And when we think of losing someone, we look at all of those things and go, I couldn't lose them.
0
SPEAKER_08
They're funny and they're charismatic and they're super fun to be around and they're sexy and they can play the guitar and they can speak three languages.
0
SPEAKER_08
And it still is a kind of,
0
SPEAKER_08
 instagram profile version of a person and someone recently said to me like i'm in a relationship with a guy and you know he plays the guitar and i find that really sexy and he's really good looking and i'm like he doesn't need in order to be in a relationship with you he doesn't need to be great at music he needs to be great at a relationship yeah
0
SPEAKER_08
 And if you want to hear someone play guitar really well, go to a John Mayer concert.
0
SPEAKER_08
Like you don't need that every day in your relationship.
0
SPEAKER_08
What's important in a relationship is someone who is really competent in a relationship and has those skills.
0
SPEAKER_08
And those skills are hard won.
0
SPEAKER_08
It's one of the reasons that relationships with big age gaps.
0
SPEAKER_08
 don't work.
0
SPEAKER_08
It's not because there is necessarily a chasm in the way these two people feel.
0
SPEAKER_08
It's that there is a huge chasm when it comes to their relationship competence and their experience and that really does matter.
0
SPEAKER_08
 And if you're with someone who has a far lower level of relationship experience, then they either have to learn through you, which is going to be a painful process.
0
SPEAKER_08
They're going to make a lot of mistakes.
0
SPEAKER_08
They're going to hurt you a lot in the process.
0
SPEAKER_08
You're going to feel like you're going to have to be careful of avoiding the role of teacher constantly in the relationship and try and be equals in a situation that's inherently kind of unequal.
0
SPEAKER_08
 And you're going to have to hope that they do learn those skills.
0
SPEAKER_08
You're making quite a big bet on the idea that one day they will have that skill set.
0
SPEAKER_08
Some people take most of their lives to get it and some people never learn it because they're not the kind of people that want to grow and be self-aware and do the work.
0
SPEAKER_08
 And so I have come to really believe that my view of love has changed to the extent that I think, firstly, the idea of, you know, is it about meeting the right person or is it about being the right time?
0
SPEAKER_08
 And I've started to weight my opinion far more towards time.
0
SPEAKER_02
Wow.
0
SPEAKER_08
That when you have decided it's the right time for you to really meet someone, you go into love with a completely different intentionality.
0
SPEAKER_08
Love isn't happening to you.
0
SPEAKER_08
It's not this wave that's washing over you, which is super easy.
0
SPEAKER_08
 When a wave's washing over you, you just stand there and just bask in the goodness of how wonderful it feels to feel that sort of drug.
0
SPEAKER_08
But that's not the same thing as intentionally.
0
SPEAKER_08
There's a difference between winning the lottery and starting a business.
0
SPEAKER_08
You know, when you start a business, there's a method, there's a practical, there's a pragmatism to it, the things you need to do in order to build this thing.
0
SPEAKER_08
 and i think that that to me it's i don't think i've developed a less romantic view i actually if anything have more and more and more come to see a person who's in a place where they're willing to actually do the work of a relationship as romantic yeah and i think people consistently get burned when they're not factoring into the equation of how right someone is whether this person is demonstrating
0
SPEAKER_08
 A, that they are also at a time in their life where they're looking for the same thing, and B, that they have genuine great relationship skills.
0
SPEAKER_08
Like, you know, we're all going to argue at some point, but how do we argue?
0
SPEAKER_08
That's just one area, but it's a huge thing.
0
SPEAKER_08
 So that to me would probably be the biggest shift.
0
SPEAKER_08
I believe in timing more these days.
0
SPEAKER_08
And I believe that we undervalue to an incredible extent genuine relationship skills and we overvalue just kind of mindless attraction.
0
SPEAKER_09
 Yeah, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_09
I love that answer, man.
0
SPEAKER_09
That's so fascinating to compare person versus time.
0
SPEAKER_09
And yeah, I often say to my friends, like the most romantic thing in the world is someone who's trying to build relationship competence.
0
SPEAKER_09
Like that is the most romantic expression that someone can have.
0
SPEAKER_09
I love the way you talk about relationship skills and we're talking about relationship competence.
0
SPEAKER_09
 I find that actually, and I can say this for my relationships too, before I met my wife and with now, relationship competence always felt like both people didn't have it.
0
SPEAKER_09
I don't think I was in many relationships where I had it and the person didn't.
0
SPEAKER_09
I actually think for many years it was just we both, like me and the other person, we both had zero relationship competence.
0
SPEAKER_09
How do you think people build relationship competence?
0
SPEAKER_09
Because it almost feels like, and you're right, and I know we both agree on this, that you just expect to know how to be in a relationship and you kind of just,
0
SPEAKER_09
 you're almost expected to know that, oh yeah, you started dating and then you know what to do next.
0
SPEAKER_09
And none of us know what to do next or now.
0
SPEAKER_09
Tell us about how you go about building relationship competence and what are the skills that you kind of break it down into for people to think about that?
0
SPEAKER_08
Well, firstly, I had very much the same experience as you.
0
SPEAKER_08
 I always thought I was such a great guy in relationships.
0
SPEAKER_08
I really did.
0
SPEAKER_08
Like I always thought I was so, you know, the line I always used to say about myself is, you know, I, yeah, maybe I wasn't ready or maybe I wasn't in a place where I wanted the same thing, but I was a great partner while I was in it.
0
SPEAKER_08
 It wasn't true.
0
SPEAKER_08
No, I was, I was, uh, what's the word?
0
SPEAKER_08
I was a gentleman.
0
SPEAKER_08
I was respectful.
0
SPEAKER_08
I, in many ways, I've always been kind.
0
SPEAKER_08
That's always been a through line of my life, but you could be kind and dumb.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_08
 And you can hurt a lot of people when you're kind and dumb, you know?
0
SPEAKER_08
And so I look back on myself and sometimes it takes someone who's better than you at a certain part of a relationship, maybe not the whole thing, but they come along and you notice that they, you know, going back to that example, argue differently than you do.
0
SPEAKER_08
 you went into fight mode and they, they went into compassion mode and said, look, babe, I know you on, I know you feel like this, but here's like the way you're reacting right now, here's how it's making me feel.
0
SPEAKER_08
And you go, oh, that was different.
0
SPEAKER_08
What was that?
0
SPEAKER_08
 It's like you learn a new move.
0
SPEAKER_02
What was that move?
0
SPEAKER_08
I haven't seen that one before.
0
SPEAKER_08
I'm usually, I've been in relationships where I say this and then you give me the silent treatment.
0
SPEAKER_08
And then I have just, I feel justified in then being mean because you're going silent.
0
SPEAKER_08
And now we amp it up.
0
SPEAKER_08
And now all of a sudden you come across someone who takes you off road.
0
SPEAKER_08
 And that's a scary moment.
0
SPEAKER_08
And when someone takes you off road, you have two choices.
0
SPEAKER_08
You can either be afraid of that.
0
SPEAKER_08
I know there's something uncomfortable about it because you're not used to it.
0
SPEAKER_08
Even kindness can be uncomfortable if you're not used to it.
0
SPEAKER_02
Absolutely.
0
SPEAKER_08
Right.
0
SPEAKER_08
But when someone takes you off road, that really is an opportunity to watch what someone else is doing.
0
SPEAKER_08
I think the same is true in business, right?
0
SPEAKER_08
 you see someone else who just did a different thing, like in your industry, someone took a turn that everyone else didn't.
0
SPEAKER_08
And you can either be the person who says, what are they, what are they, what's that?
0
SPEAKER_08
Why are they doing that?
0
SPEAKER_08
That's stupid.
0
SPEAKER_08
Or they think that's gonna work.
0
SPEAKER_08
Or you can go, oh, that's interesting.
0
SPEAKER_08
No one else is doing that.
0
SPEAKER_08
Why are they doing that?
0
SPEAKER_08
Let me check that out.
0
SPEAKER_08
You could be curious about it.
0
SPEAKER_08
Especially if you think, oh, there's something to that, what they're doing.
0
SPEAKER_08
 And so I think that the exploring areas where someone isn't doing the same thing as you, and it takes you into a different experience, that's not bad.
0
SPEAKER_08
It's like it almost feels like, oh, this is uncomfortable, but maybe it's showing me something I'm not very good at.
0
SPEAKER_08
 You know, maybe they just, maybe they went out with their friends and I picked a fight because I'm jealous about something that I think is, I've got this portrayal of what's going on or whatever.
0
SPEAKER_08
I went out with my friends and they said, hey, have the best night, babe.
0
SPEAKER_08
And I'm like, oh, that's weird.
0
SPEAKER_08
Everyone I've been with so far is, when I go out with my friends, they get super jealous.
0
SPEAKER_08
 And that always makes me feel like I've got something to resist.
0
SPEAKER_08
But now I just went out and they said, have the best night.
0
SPEAKER_08
By the way, you look gorgeous.
0
SPEAKER_08
And I'm like, uh, okay, what's that?
0
SPEAKER_08
That's a new move, which is, what's that one?
0
SPEAKER_08
You know, and you learn something and that you pay attention because you go, that was really interesting.
0
SPEAKER_08
That made me, my God, that made me, that made me, when I was out, think about them half the time.
0
SPEAKER_08
 you know and think what a sexy confident person they are yeah that's i want to make her feel that when she next goes out yeah yeah and that apparently that that's how you do that oh that's interesting you learn from it so i think that there's a learning that we get from relationships but in order to do that you actually have to be in a space of
0
SPEAKER_08
 of being willing to put eyes on yourself, and in a constant student mindset, which most of us are not.
0
SPEAKER_08
You know, we do go into relationships, a lot of us thinking we know it all, we learn it all from our last relationship, but there's, there is, it's a cliche, but they're just,
0
SPEAKER_08
 There's always another level.
0
SPEAKER_08
There are so many levels to life and it fascinates me because I'm always thinking that.
0
SPEAKER_08
I'm just thinking, my God, there are so many people that are so good at so many different things.
0
SPEAKER_08
Like not, I'm not saying everyone's better than us.
0
SPEAKER_08
They might be good at this one piece of the puzzle, but you watch how they do it and you go, that's really interesting.
0
SPEAKER_08
There's something to learn from that.
0
SPEAKER_08
 But if we're constantly trying to defend our own position and trying to feel like what we do is the right way, we'll never learn that.
0
SPEAKER_08
And I do, I'm a believer in, I'm a believer in therapy or anything that gets you to be, to look at yourself in a constructive way.
0
SPEAKER_08
And someone in front of you, who's not gonna give you the answers that you,
0
SPEAKER_08
 You know, I remember a long time ago, me saying to a friend, like, I mean, I was in this relationship and I was like, you know, this person wants to speak a lot.
0
SPEAKER_08
And I've, you know, I've got this and I've got this and I've got this.
0
SPEAKER_08
And I was expecting him to be like,
0
SPEAKER_08
 Well, she sounds like a lot of work.
0
SPEAKER_08
Yeah, like she sounds really difficult man That's it.
0
SPEAKER_08
Yeah, like tell me about it and instead he went I'm kind of with her on this one Yeah, like actually it's super important that you he was like He actually said to me something funny.
0
SPEAKER_08
He goes you he goes I go to the gym one-tenth of the time you do but I have a body like a bag of milk and
0
SPEAKER_08
 He said, so you get what you pay for.
0
SPEAKER_08
And in your relationship, you get what you pay for.
0
SPEAKER_08
If you want it to be great, invest in it.
0
SPEAKER_08
And that friend or that mentor or that therapist- Don't ever see them again.
0
SPEAKER_08
Fire them immediately.
0
SPEAKER_08
 They're worth their weight in gold because we surround ourselves with, you know, people, you know, men surround themselves with the boys club.
0
SPEAKER_08
Oh man, she sounds different.
0
SPEAKER_08
Oh, you know, that's so high maintenance, blah, blah, blah.
0
SPEAKER_08
And women surround themselves with their friends who sit around and say, I can't believe he did that.
0
SPEAKER_08
I can't believe he said that to you.
0
SPEAKER_08
And half of them sometimes are sitting there going, you kind of seem like the unreasonable one here, but they don't tell her.
0
SPEAKER_08
 And then she gets further ingrained in this way of thinking.
0
SPEAKER_08
In fact, they even may amp her up and send her back into a relationship charged now and, and even more defiant.
0
SPEAKER_08
And now, you know, you get even more conflict.
0
SPEAKER_08
So that those to me are some of the key ways to learn and, and just to be open always, always, always, always be open.
0
SPEAKER_09
 I love that.
0
SPEAKER_09
I love that.
0
SPEAKER_09
I think it's so true.
0
SPEAKER_09
And I love what you said about how like, it's not like you're going to meet the mentor and your partner or the coach or the guru, but like they may be just better at one thing, or they may be great at just one area of a relationship.
0
SPEAKER_09
And that's what you're kind of mining and picking from.
0
SPEAKER_09
When I look back at what you're saying in my relationship, I'm trying to reflect it.
0
SPEAKER_09
In my teens, I realized I had a serious issue with, I just loved being loved.
0
SPEAKER_09
 And so I was kind.
0
SPEAKER_09
I identify with so much of what you said.
0
SPEAKER_09
I was always kind.
0
SPEAKER_09
I was always a gentleman.
0
SPEAKER_09
I was always like generous.
0
SPEAKER_09
But I realized that in my teens, I would go above and beyond to want someone to fall in love with me.
0
SPEAKER_09
And that's all I wanted.
0
SPEAKER_09
All I actually wanted was for someone to fall in love with me.
0
SPEAKER_09
And it didn't actually matter who it was sometimes.
0
SPEAKER_09
Like it wasn't even that I really liked them or knew them or understood them.
0
SPEAKER_09
I just wanted that feeling of,
0
SPEAKER_09
 this person loves me and what would often happen is they would fall in love with me because I would be the perfect guy by giving them gifts and remembering this and whatever it was and and then I would feel like they're not giving me anything back now I feel like the one I'm the one who's doing all the loving and there's no love back which I've only created myself because of my crazy cycle.
0
SPEAKER_08
Totally relate to all of that and I was that guy too and
0
SPEAKER_08
 Those guys will often look at guys who are kind of the textbook, the textbook jerk.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_08
And be like, well, he's awful.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
0
SPEAKER_08
Like, you know, he slept with her and he completely ghosted her and he never called her again or he disrespect, whatever.
0
SPEAKER_08
He's, it's easy to point to that guy and be like, what a piece of crap that guy is.
0
SPEAKER_08
But
0
SPEAKER_08
 We're more dangerous.
0
SPEAKER_09
I would then break up with them because I didn't feel loved.
0
SPEAKER_09
And then I'd feel like I was the victim and that I'd been the one not treated well.
0
SPEAKER_09
And then my wife broke me because I tried to, I did the same thing with her.
0
SPEAKER_09
I was always like, but she wasn't impressed by any of the ways I tried to love her apart from being me.
0
SPEAKER_09
And that was when it all kind of like unraveled.
0
SPEAKER_09
And I was like,
0
SPEAKER_09
 Oh, I finally found someone who actually didn't want all the stuff I was trying to do to get her to love me.
0
SPEAKER_09
And so my wife was the kind of person who broke through that barrier because she just didn't care about the stuff or the memory or the gifting or the extravagant, like she hated all that stuff.
0
SPEAKER_09
And so all of a sudden my technique wasn't, it wasn't even a technique, it was genuine in my delusion, but it wasn't working anymore.
0
SPEAKER_09
 And that's when I had to really look at it because I really loved my wife and I was like, oh, I actually have to really look at this.
0
SPEAKER_09
And so she was the one who broke that and taught me that idea.
0
SPEAKER_09
That's beautiful.
0
SPEAKER_08
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_08
So it took someone who valued something completely different than the thing that the weapon you were used to using, right?
0
SPEAKER_08
Exactly.
0
SPEAKER_08
The move.
0
SPEAKER_08
The move that I was used to.
0
SPEAKER_08
She like took away all of your special moves.
0
SPEAKER_08
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_08
All the power was gone.
0
SPEAKER_08
You have to fight this fight now with none of these special moves.
0
SPEAKER_08
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_08
 And then you're all of a sudden, like you say, it's like being stripped bare.
0
SPEAKER_08
Now I get a chance to truly be loved for who I am, not the performance that I'm doing in the beginning, which as you say, it's not that it's not genuine.
0
SPEAKER_08
It's genuinely about
0
SPEAKER_08
 Getting something for ourselves completely as opposed to genuinely about discovering somebody else or building something or whatever and and and I did the same thing and It's it's one of the great, you know, I deal with my god in my company.
0
SPEAKER_08
We're dealing with I mean millions of women a month worldwide but tens of thousands in terms of real coaching and I
0
SPEAKER_08
 the one of the biggest problems is people falling for people really quickly yes falling in love too fast where it's because they went on a couple of great dates with a guy and they can look at the date and go he was amazing and you you should have seen what he did and how he was on the date and all of that and the thing i have to always break down is
0
SPEAKER_08
 that may not have been about you.
0
SPEAKER_08
It is about something he wanted you to feel by the end of the date.
0
SPEAKER_08
And not that, you know, I kind of loathe this culture we have right now where everyone's a narcissist.
0
SPEAKER_08
We're so quick to like label, he's a narcissist, she's a narcissist.
1
SPEAKER_07
 I'm like, not everyone, like we all have a narcissistic streak.
1
SPEAKER_07
And we all exhibit narcissistic behaviors at times.
1
SPEAKER_07
That doesn't mean we're a diagnosable narcissist, but a narcissistic streak we all have early in dating and to differing degrees is the desire to impress rather than connect.
1
SPEAKER_07
 And so we go on a date with someone and, you know, at the height of it, if someone's really on the extreme end, they will give the greatest date of someone's life.
1
SPEAKER_07
And that person goes away and they're like, this guy is amazing, or this person.
1
SPEAKER_07
And they may have put on an amazing date, but you know nothing yet.
1
SPEAKER_07
And what's cool about your wife going through that process with you is,
1
SPEAKER_07
 You know, I can imagine for her, it's almost like, well, I want to see how you are in week four, or I want to see how you are in month three.
1
SPEAKER_07
And until you've been there, you really don't know how great of a partner somebody is going to be.
1
SPEAKER_07
And that's what I mean by, you know, when you asked me about what I've really learned about love and I talked about valuing the wrong things, that's one of the big ways that it shows up.
1
SPEAKER_07
If you are getting crazy nervous on a date,
1
SPEAKER_07
 You're already, that's already a reflection of the fact that you've valued the wrong things.
1
SPEAKER_07
Because you're valuing this person's looks or their status or what you perceive them to be.
1
SPEAKER_07
But you can't, you're not valuing them in a relationship or in relation to you, which is defined by how much they give, how they connect with you, how they relate to you, how they see you.
1
SPEAKER_07
All of that stuff is completely, you're a zero.
1
SPEAKER_06
 Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_07
So how can you be nervous if you're valuing the right things?
1
SPEAKER_07
You can only be nervous if you're valuing the wrong things.
1
SPEAKER_07
 If that to me is the key to eliminating early nerves in early dating is that there is, I almost feel a little fatalistic about it, which is funny coming from someone who gives advice in this area for a living because, you know, I do believe that we can influence situations with what we do, but we do have to have a bit of a dose of fatalism that the thing that didn't pan out wasn't the thing.
1
SPEAKER_07
 The person who's still great in week eight is showing you the right things.
1
SPEAKER_07
But if they suddenly ghost you in week nine, then it doesn't mean they would have been great in week 16.
1
SPEAKER_07
They're like, oh, but they were the one and I just, I don't know what, I need closure.
1
SPEAKER_07
You have closure.
1
SPEAKER_07
That action was closure.
1
SPEAKER_07
What they showed you is they had eight good weeks in them.
1
SPEAKER_03
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1
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1
SPEAKER_00
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1
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It's a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting.
1
SPEAKER_00
 like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone, and so much more.
1
SPEAKER_01
We're back with season two of the podcast, which means more opportunities to glow up and become a more responsible and better adult, one life lesson at a time.
1
SPEAKER_00
And let me just tell you, this show is just as much for us as it is for you.
1
SPEAKER_00
So let's figure this stuff out together.
1
SPEAKER_00
This season, we're going to talk about whether or not we're financially and emotionally ready for dog ownership.
1
SPEAKER_01
 We're going to figure out the benefits of a high yield savings account.
1
SPEAKER_00
And what exactly are the duties of being a member of the wedding party?
1
SPEAKER_01
All that plus so much more.
1
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Let's learn about all of it and then some.
1
SPEAKER_00
Listen to Grown Up Stuff How to Adult on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1
SPEAKER_05
 That's interesting.
1
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, that's interesting.
1
SPEAKER_05
And it's the same as you'd say in sport.
1
SPEAKER_05
I was just thinking about sport while you were saying that.
1
SPEAKER_05
It's the idea of like a player may have one good season in him or her.
1
SPEAKER_05
And then that player may have had 10 good seasons in him or her.
1
SPEAKER_05
And sometimes we have these players where we're like, oh, she's going to be the next or he's going to be the next.
1
SPEAKER_05
And then all of a sudden, they don't give you that season.
1
SPEAKER_05
 And in sports, we get closure by just going, all right, they had potential, but they didn't make it.
1
SPEAKER_05
But you're right, in love and life, it's a lot hard to have that mentality of like, they gave me eight good weeks, but they didn't make it.
1
SPEAKER_07
And you sit there and you obsess over someone who just left you going, you obsess over what they could have been.
1
SPEAKER_07
Yeah, that's what it is.
1
SPEAKER_07
They could have, you know, this was so promising.
1
SPEAKER_07
 They were everything that I was looking for.
1
SPEAKER_07
This could have been.
1
SPEAKER_07
And anytime someone breaks up with us, you know, the heartbreak is the loss of the life we thought we were going to have with someone.
1
SPEAKER_07
This is what it could have been.
1
SPEAKER_07
This is what it should have been.
1
SPEAKER_07
And my answer to that is it would have been if it should have been and could have been.
1
SPEAKER_07
Then it would have been.
1
SPEAKER_07
You're literally
1
SPEAKER_07
 You're grieving over something that was not, by definition, it wasn't meant to happen because it didn't happen.
1
SPEAKER_07
It didn't happen.
1
SPEAKER_07
So this idea that it was supposed to or it should have is myth, it's a fantasy, it's science fiction.
1
SPEAKER_05
 But I feel like in relationships we have this fantasy mind that's already written the script and the book and the trilogy before the second date is over.
1
SPEAKER_05
And so it's almost like relationship seems to be like the one area of our life where we write decades into the future
1
SPEAKER_05
 And we can't help ourselves because we almost think that that, and it's almost like you're living, what you're saying is you're living off the fantasy, not even of the reality that's right in front of you.
1
SPEAKER_05
And so even when you're on a date with them, you're not even there because you're in your fantasy land of what you think it is.
1
SPEAKER_07
And that's where, in so many ways, everything that you are, you know, your expertise in mindfulness and everything you've learned there is so important in dating.
1
SPEAKER_07
 Because in dating you have to be on the date you're on.
1
SPEAKER_07
Mindful dating is be on the date you're on.
1
SPEAKER_07
Don't be on date 2, but really you're not, you're on date 32.
1
SPEAKER_07
Your mind has to be on date 2 with your body.
1
SPEAKER_07
 And when people don't do that, that's where they start constructing a fantasy of where this relationship is going.
1
SPEAKER_07
A fantasy of who this person is.
1
SPEAKER_07
They know 5% of someone and they've built the other 95% out of extrapolation.
1
SPEAKER_07
 Oh, he was really sweet in that moment.
1
SPEAKER_07
You know, I bet he's good with kids.
1
SPEAKER_07
I bet he's this, I bet he's that.
1
SPEAKER_07
I bet he's, you know, I bet he's an amazing family man.
1
SPEAKER_07
I bet, you know, and, and we've all had the experience of meeting someone who is incredibly charming, fun to be around.
1
SPEAKER_07
You know, you went away from like, as men, we sometimes go out and we meet another man and it's like, we've been on a date with that man and you come home and you go, he was so great.
1
SPEAKER_07
You know, I loved him to bits.
1
SPEAKER_07
He was, and he really charmed you.
1
SPEAKER_07
 And then six months later, that person has really lost their shine because they're flaky.
1
SPEAKER_07
You realize they don't actually show up when you need them to.
1
SPEAKER_07
You realize that it's, they kind of, you know, in The Talented Mr. Ripley, there's that great line.
1
SPEAKER_07
That's a great movie.
1
SPEAKER_07
 Great movie, there's a great line where Matt Damon is like, you know, he's become the new chosen best friend of Jude Law's character.
1
SPEAKER_07
Jude Law's character's name's Dickie and Matt Damon is feeling suddenly shut out, like out of nowhere he feels shut out, when five minutes ago he was like, this guy's my best friend and he loves me and he's so, and he says to Matt Damon's girlfriend at the time,
1
SPEAKER_07
 he's expressing how he feels that, or no, he's not even expressing, she sees the look on his face that he's sad that he no longer has this like friendship that feels real to him.
1
SPEAKER_07
And she says, the thing about Dickie is when he puts his attention on you, it's like the sun is shining on you.
1
SPEAKER_07
And then the attention moves on and it's very cold.
1
SPEAKER_07
 And that's the experience of a lot of those people.
1
SPEAKER_07
But when you're taking the 5% of the sun shining on you and you use it to build the 95% that you cannot possibly know.
1
SPEAKER_07
You can't know who this person is when your brother gets sick and you need to travel to the hospital to be with that person and you need support in that moment.
1
SPEAKER_07
You can't know how that person is when you're having an anxious moment and you need someone to show love and compassion towards you and this,
1
SPEAKER_07
 anxiety that you can't seem to control and what you really need is a loving teammate to be there with you and not to judge you.
1
SPEAKER_07
You can't know what this person is like in year three of a relationship when the, you know, you need to make a shift in your sex life because it feels like that part has become stayed but you need to work together to figure out.
1
SPEAKER_07
You don't know what that person is like in those stages.
1
SPEAKER_07
So thinking that you have all the answers because you've been on even 10 or 15 dates with this person and had a wonderful time,
1
SPEAKER_07
 is a, is a fallacy, a fantasy.
1
SPEAKER_07
There's a great, the, the, the relationship itself is about every stage of it and the effort that's put in.
1
SPEAKER_07
And there's a, there's a story from Bukowski where he, he slept with a prostitute.
1
SPEAKER_07
Every romantic story begins with, begins this way.
1
SPEAKER_07
He slept with a prostitute and she, he woke up to her having stolen his poetry.
1
SPEAKER_07
 And he was so upset, so mad.
1
SPEAKER_07
And he wrote about it.
1
SPEAKER_07
And he wrote a piece that was all about how you could take anything, take my money, take the other stuff in the apartment, take it all.
1
SPEAKER_07
 please not my, anything but my poetry.
1
SPEAKER_07
And the whole piece finishes with the line, and then God said, crossing his legs, I see where I've created a great many poets, but not so very much poetry.
1
SPEAKER_07
And the, the idea is that, you know, the person who has potential in a relationship is the poet.
1
SPEAKER_07
 The poet, everyone's a poet.
1
SPEAKER_07
Not many people writing poetry.
1
SPEAKER_07
Writing is the more difficult part.
1
SPEAKER_07
A lot of people who are great on a date, very romantic, very charming, they're a poet on a date.
1
SPEAKER_07
The poetry is the relationship.
1
SPEAKER_07
And you shouldn't, you know, Bukowski was upset because his poetry was taken, the thing he'd worked on.
1
SPEAKER_07
 And that's how it should be in a relationship is don't get upset because you lost a poet.
1
SPEAKER_07
Poets are a dime a dozen.
1
SPEAKER_07
Poetry is rare.
1
SPEAKER_07
People who are willing to write the poetry of a relationship, people who are willing to stick it with you for a year, two years, five years, 10 years, that's really rare.
1
SPEAKER_07
And we need to start valuing the poetry far more than we value the poet.
1
SPEAKER_05
 Yeah, I love that.
1
SPEAKER_05
What a beautiful analogy.
1
SPEAKER_05
Let's talk a bit about that poetry because I feel like what's amazing is we convince ourselves more of the fiction when you are lusting after that person's looks, fame, prestige, whatever they have that you're attracted to.
1
SPEAKER_05
It's almost like then even if they do a million bad things, like you said about the guy playing the guitar or whatever it is, it's like, you're like, oh, but he's so or she's so whatever.
1
SPEAKER_05
 But tell us a bit about what to look out for.
1
SPEAKER_05
So when people are out there, and I know what I love about what you do is that, and I love this conversation by the way so far, because it's philosophical and it's real, but you're great at getting practical too.
1
SPEAKER_05
And I see that in all the work you put out.
1
SPEAKER_05
What's some of the practical things that people can look out for?
1
SPEAKER_05
I know so many friends who are in early relationships or just started to date someone or finally met someone.
1
SPEAKER_05
What can they look for?
1
SPEAKER_05
 in those moments or is it looking for anything?
1
SPEAKER_05
Maybe that's even the wrong place to start.
1
SPEAKER_07
I think it's, so we have a duty early on to bring our best to the table in as much as we can.
1
SPEAKER_07
We're all going to make mistakes.
1
SPEAKER_07
We're all going to have anxious moments or jealous moments or moments where we let our insecurity get the better of us.
1
SPEAKER_07
Moments where we let our anger get the better of us.
1
SPEAKER_07
Everyone's going to have these moments, but we want to try and put our best foot forward.
1
SPEAKER_07
 But I always think that we learn a lot in the moments where you have your first fight or you reveal something about yourself and you see how they react to it.
1
SPEAKER_07
You know, do they react with compassion or is there immediate judgment?
1
SPEAKER_07
 And I don't mean a moment where you kind of try and perform.
1
SPEAKER_07
I mean a moment where you genuinely are brave enough to let someone in and be seen.
1
SPEAKER_07
Does this person, do they see you?
1
SPEAKER_07
Do they acknowledge you?
1
SPEAKER_07
And do they show compassion?
1
SPEAKER_07
 and curiosity about why you are that way and what's happened in your life to get you there.
1
SPEAKER_07
Are they looking to figure you out and who you are is a wonderful, wonderful sign because a lot of people are just in a relationship and they're sleepwalking.
1
SPEAKER_07
They're enjoying it.
1
SPEAKER_07
They're enjoying the fruits of the relationship, but you don't get the impression someone's really trying to get to know you.
1
SPEAKER_07
You don't feel seen by that person.
1
SPEAKER_07
The person who's actually asking questions of you
1
SPEAKER_07
 The person who's looking to understand the good and the bad in you, and who elevates the good and soothes the bad, that's something very beautiful to look out for.
1
SPEAKER_07
The person who can come back and say sorry.
1
SPEAKER_07
 as of course, and I apply the same standard to both sides, but the person who can come back and say sorry, you know, again, we all, when I'm, with one of my staff in my company, when I say, you know, when I give them a difficult piece of feedback,
1
SPEAKER_07
 I don't expect them to smile in that moment.
1
SPEAKER_07
I don't expect them to like take, you know, I would hope that they don't react in a really negative or toxic way, but I don't expect them to have an easy time with that.
1
SPEAKER_07
But if that person can go away over the next few hours or days and then come back and say, you know, I really thought about what you said and I'm going to work on that.
1
SPEAKER_07
That's something to look for.
1
SPEAKER_07
 Because you can really, like that person, if you're both that kind of person, you can work with that person.
1
SPEAKER_07
That's someone you can genuinely have a relationship with because it's not a relationship that's based on perfection or never having an argument, but it is based on two people who are humble enough to genuinely own their mistakes or to own the areas where they want to get better.
1
SPEAKER_07
 I'm always looking at the ways people argue and whether they're trying to do damage in an argument or whether they're trying to rebuild in an argument.
1
SPEAKER_07
And if you're with someone that every time you come out of an argument, you feel like they lacerated you and you come out of an argument bleeding every time.
1
SPEAKER_07
 You know, and you're like, why did they have to say that incredibly nasty thing?
1
SPEAKER_07
And it's one thing if they come back an hour later and say, or even a day later and say, I truly regret having said that to you and I will do better.
1
SPEAKER_07
 But if they won't even acknowledge that that was a really toxic way to have an argument, and that was a really nasty thing to say, then that's a problem.
1
SPEAKER_07
Because this is a relationship that's not going to soothe you.
1
SPEAKER_07
It's going to create more and more wounds.
1
SPEAKER_07
So that I would say is an important thing.
1
SPEAKER_07
And two people genuinely
1
SPEAKER_07
 genuinely at the core of it operating as a team.
1
SPEAKER_07
What do you need?
1
SPEAKER_07
And can I tell you, you know, you're working really hard right now.
1
SPEAKER_07
Can I understand what your goal is in doing this and seek to understand that?
1
SPEAKER_07
 and where that's coming from for you and why that's important but can I also voice to you that I'm not feeling very loved right now and that I'm you know maybe it's just my insecurity or maybe that you know but I or maybe I don't have some enough as many things going on in my life right now as you do in yours but I know one of the effects is it's creating some anxiety for me.
1
SPEAKER_07
 And it's making me feel like you don't love me as much as I love you.
1
SPEAKER_07
You know, you want an environment where you can have that real conversation.
1
SPEAKER_07
And it then, to me, a relationship is no longer about right and wrong.
1
SPEAKER_07
It's about the conversation.
1
SPEAKER_07
Can the conversation be had?
1
SPEAKER_07
That, to me, is one of the greatest signs of a relationship you should hang on to, is can the relationship be had?
1
SPEAKER_07
 And can it be had in a beautiful and productive and loving way?
1
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_07
Because that's all, you know, David Brooks said marriage is a 50-year conversation, right?
1
SPEAKER_07
Is that conversation, does it feel good?
1
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_07
Doesn't always feel comfortable, but does it feel like this is a conversation that is making me better?
1
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_07
Or is it a conversation that's always making me worse?
1
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, I love that.
1
SPEAKER_05
And I think it's such a vicious cycle though sometimes because I find that
1
SPEAKER_05
 You get into an argument, like you said, which I think the first argument is such a great, like it's such a great marker to put down as let's reflect on this.
1
SPEAKER_05
I think that's such a great way of putting it that you said.
1
SPEAKER_05
And if you look at that, often what happens is the person reacts badly.
1
SPEAKER_05
It's natural.
1
SPEAKER_05
You react badly too.
1
SPEAKER_05
 and then you're waiting for that person to make up and that person's waiting for you to make up and then maybe you go ahead and put the first hand in but then now they deal with the second bad and now you're waiting again and I feel like we get lost in this like waiting game and I kind of got to a point where I was just like I want to
1
SPEAKER_05
 make sure that I am leading this conversation.
1
SPEAKER_05
So a conversation that me and my wife always have is I'll always check in with her and be like, is this relationship going in the direction you want it to go in?
1
SPEAKER_05
Like, is this going in the direction?
1
SPEAKER_05
Is this relationship what you want it to be?
1
SPEAKER_05
And if it's not, what do you want it to be?
1
SPEAKER_05
And what are you willing to do to get there?
1
SPEAKER_05
Because, and I'll always be like, well, this is not how I want the relationship to be.
1
SPEAKER_05
 And this is what I wanted to be.
1
SPEAKER_05
And I found like that conversation for me is really healthy and I'm always happy.
1
SPEAKER_05
One thing that I've got to right now, and I think my wife has this in different parts of our relationship, I'm always happy to take the responsibility for the quality of the relationship because I'm in it in the same way as I am with my company, in the same way as I am for this podcast, in the same way as I am for anything.
1
SPEAKER_05
It's like, it's easy to, it's easy to sit there and go, well, what are you bringing to the table?
1
SPEAKER_05
 And I realized at one point where I was like, if I care about stuff, I've got to be okay with grabbing onto the reins.
1
SPEAKER_05
And the funny thing is I started to realize that actually there are plenty of times when my wife does that.
1
SPEAKER_05
She just does it in different areas that I don't notice.
1
SPEAKER_05
And so it can feel like I'm carrying the burden, but actually that's not true.
1
SPEAKER_05
I'm taking responsibility where I thrive.
1
SPEAKER_05
And actually she's taking responsibility where she thrives and I don't even notice that.
1
SPEAKER_05
 That's when I started to feel healthier rather than like, I was like, well, you show up, what are you doing?
1
SPEAKER_05
I remember when I was a monk, the teachers would always tell us that you may sit in a class with a non-charismatic teacher.
1
SPEAKER_05
They were like, some of the monks are not going to be the most charismatic, the most
1
SPEAKER_05
 attentive, the most dynamic teachers of the text and the spiritual scriptures.
1
SPEAKER_05
And they were like, but if you're a student, that's 10 out of 10.
1
SPEAKER_05
Even if the speakers are one out of 10 in presentation, you're going to get lots.
1
SPEAKER_05
But if you're a one out of 10 and the speaker's 10 out of 10, then they're lifting you up.
1
SPEAKER_05
 But by the way, if you're at a 1 out of 10 and they're at a 1 out of 10, that's all you're going to get.
1
SPEAKER_05
And it's kind of like what your friend said about the bag of milk, you know, the idea of like taking your own responsibility for if you want to be in a relationship.
1
SPEAKER_05
I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.
1
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_07
But that speaks again.
1
SPEAKER_07
You're so right, Jay, and it's truly beautiful that you have that in your relationship.
1
SPEAKER_07
And it's also brave.
1
SPEAKER_07
 Because talking, those conversations are not easy.
1
SPEAKER_07
And people can say things in those conversations that can scare us.
1
SPEAKER_07
They can say, well, I'm not happy because I want it to go in this direction.
1
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, I've heard that too.
1
SPEAKER_07
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_07
Like, you know, or I didn't realize you were unhappy in that way, or I didn't realize you felt like that.
1
SPEAKER_07
It takes a lot of bravery to have conversations like that.
1
SPEAKER_07
And I commend you for that.
1
SPEAKER_07
And I think
1
SPEAKER_07
 That's one of the things a lot of people aren't willing to do is step bravely into an area where they could be criticized.
1
SPEAKER_07
Um, but I, I think it is one of the most important aspects of a relationship is being able to do exactly that.
1
SPEAKER_07
So no, I think it's, I think it's a stunning thing.
1
SPEAKER_05
 Well, it's uncomfortable.
1
SPEAKER_05
Like you're saying, it's not, and I'm not sharing it as like we've perfected and we've got it right.
1
SPEAKER_05
I'm just saying that that's what we've had to do in order to, like, you know, we're only at year five, year eight in our relationship, year five in marriage.
1
SPEAKER_05
But it's like, that's what we've just, I've had to find these, what you're saying, like the 50 year conversation and the idea you're saying of having these, like, I'm just, I've noticed that without these things, you could go years without changing anything.
1
SPEAKER_07
But speaking of what you said with the idea of the monks,
1
SPEAKER_07
 That to me goes back to what I was saying about timing being important.
1
SPEAKER_07
I do believe when you go into a relationship with genuine purpose, and even when you go into dating with genuine purpose, you go on a dating app, because a lot of people out there listening to this won't be in relationship, they'll be right now in the crapshoot of dating apps trying to figure out how to navigate.
1
SPEAKER_07
When we're intentional,
1
SPEAKER_07
 We bring a different energy to the things we do.
1
SPEAKER_07
We bring a different energy to a person.
1
SPEAKER_07
And in early dating, I think that when you're really intentional and when you really are like, I'm looking for a real connection here, you don't actually judge people as quickly.
1
SPEAKER_07
You don't dispose of people.
1
SPEAKER_07
 as quickly where you just go wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.
1
SPEAKER_07
You, you start actually looking for what could be right.
1
SPEAKER_07
You start, and I'm not saying ignoring abusive and toxic behavior.
1
SPEAKER_07
I'm just saying those superficial things we just, you know, decide, no, they don't meet this checklist.
1
SPEAKER_07
They don't meet this one.
1
SPEAKER_07
We lose that because what we're looking for is, is deeper.
1
SPEAKER_07
And we start genuinely seeking to like, we're on a date and we start going, let me really find out who this person is.
1
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_07
 Like let me really see them and let me not be judgmental of them so quickly and look to understand them and the reward for that is that this person now actually feels seen by you.
1
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, that's great advice.
1
SPEAKER_07
And they now give you a different energy than they may have given on the last 10 days.
1
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_07
 you suddenly they blossom on the date differently because of the energy in front of them.
1
SPEAKER_07
There's a Mitch Albom wrote a line about, you know, if the culture isn't serving you, then you have to be brave enough to create your own culture.
1
SPEAKER_07
 And in dating, for so many people, I, you know, I get all the complaints about dating these days, you know, it's superficial, it's no one, everyone's flaky, no one goes on real dates, no one's trying, no one's really committing, no one's a real relationship.
1
SPEAKER_07
It's like, okay, so what you're describing to me is what you perceive to be a culture that's not working for you.
1
SPEAKER_07
But if that culture isn't serving you, then create your own
1
SPEAKER_07
 culture that surrounds you.
1
SPEAKER_07
And your culture can be powerful, not for the world necessarily, because for that there needs to be a combined cultural shift.
1
SPEAKER_07
But in your micro life, in your micro problems and opportunities, the culture you create will have an impact on the people around you.
1
SPEAKER_07
And the same way, you know, I said,
1
SPEAKER_07
 If you go into a room at a party and you say, I hope this party's good.
1
SPEAKER_07
Well, now you're a victim to however this party is.
1
SPEAKER_07
You know, if everyone seems kind of closed off and mean and, you know, this cliquey and it's like, oh God.
1
SPEAKER_07
Then you go home and you say, oh my God, that party was so, you know, it was one of those horrible parties.
1
SPEAKER_07
But if you go in and you say, I'm gonna at the very least be responsible
1
SPEAKER_07
 for a part of this party.
1
SPEAKER_07
I'm going to go in and I'm going to give the love and the energy and the compassion and the authenticity that I would love for people in this room to join me in giving.
1
SPEAKER_07
Some will, some won't.
1
SPEAKER_07
And by the way, that's also good because it will help you find your crowd, right?
1
SPEAKER_07
So you find your crowd by being the thing you want to be, not by hoping that your crowd elicits it from you.
1
SPEAKER_07
You found your crowd online by going out and being an energy that you wanted to be first.
1
SPEAKER_07
 And then that crowd noticed you.
1
SPEAKER_07
It's like a lighthouse.
1
SPEAKER_07
All the ships start knowing where to come home because they see the, you know, they see the lighthouse.
1
SPEAKER_07
That for me is, that's one of the most beautiful things about giving energy early on.
1
SPEAKER_07
I see dating, you know, not just relationships, but I see people in dating these days.
1
SPEAKER_07
It's the game is who can try less.
1
SPEAKER_07
 who can be cooler, who can be more indifferent.
1
SPEAKER_07
And that's honestly not the way to do it.
1
SPEAKER_07
That's certainly the way to attract someone of a lower frequency.
1
SPEAKER_05
I love that.
1
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_07
Right.
1
SPEAKER_07
You can certainly attract someone who wants the game, who wants the, who's
2
SPEAKER_04
 got the demons that make them chase someone who's not into them.
2
SPEAKER_04
And there are plenty of people with those demons, but you don't want to be in a relationship with a person like that.
2
SPEAKER_04
Because for sure, a person like that, the moment you stop playing hard to get and you turn around to meet them, they're not going to be interested in you anymore because their demons will tell them, this person likes us now.
2
SPEAKER_04
This person is no longer cool to us.
2
SPEAKER_04
They were only cool to us as long as they didn't like us.
2
SPEAKER_05
 So you can't ever... It's so messed up.
2
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, but it's, you know, it's that, uh, that Kraut Joe Marx thing, I wouldn't want to be a member of any club that would have me as a member.
2
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_04
That describes dating insecurity amongst people like that is I want to, that person doesn't want me, they must be a catch.
2
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
2
SPEAKER_04
And so what we have to do is give, when we give a little more energy in dating and say, you know what, this person who I've known for five minutes,
2
SPEAKER_04
 Maybe I'm not feeling much energy here, but I'm just going to give some energy.
2
SPEAKER_04
I'm going to give an amount of energy I'm willing to lose.
2
SPEAKER_04
That's a key way of looking at it.
2
SPEAKER_04
What you don't do is you keep trying with someone who's not giving you equal energy back.
2
SPEAKER_04
That then becomes masochistic.
2
SPEAKER_04
 but giving an amount of energy you're willing to lose.
2
SPEAKER_04
I always think about that in every interaction.
2
SPEAKER_05
That's so true.
2
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_04
Give an amount you don't mind losing.
2
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_04
It's like going into the casino and playing like roulette.
2
SPEAKER_04
It's like, all right, I'm in Vegas.
2
SPEAKER_04
I'll give like a hundred bucks and then I'm not spending anything else here in these casinos.
2
SPEAKER_04
That's it.
2
SPEAKER_04
You know, for me, it's normally like 10 bucks because I just, I'm not a gambler, but you just decide what am I happy to lose?
2
SPEAKER_04
And it's the same with energy.
2
SPEAKER_04
It's, you know, I'm dating right now.
2
SPEAKER_04
 I want to find someone amazing, someone beautiful.
2
SPEAKER_04
 I'm going to give to everyone I interact with an amount of energy I don't mind losing.
2
SPEAKER_04
And some people, I'm going to bring out the people who now are willing to give it back because all of a sudden they might be jolted out of their little coma that they've been in because they're disillusioned with dating and they feel like no one's trying.
2
SPEAKER_04
And so they went into their shell, but now they see you with a different level of warmth and playfulness and just positivity and they go,
2
SPEAKER_04
 Huh, who is this?
2
SPEAKER_04
This makes me feel good.
2
SPEAKER_04
And then they come out a little bit and all of a sudden you see who they are.
2
SPEAKER_04
You wake them up a little bit and then there's a bunch of people you won't and that's okay because you were willing to lose that much energy.
2
SPEAKER_04
But what people do instead, they do a far more dangerous thing of being afraid of the rejection from people that they approach or talk to in the first five minutes.
2
SPEAKER_04
God forbid I get rejected in the first five minutes.
2
SPEAKER_04
 But then they'll meet someone where they have a bit of connection in chemistry, but who isn't trying, who isn't giving them equal energy and they'll keep pouring energy into that person month after month after month when they're not getting the same in return.
2
SPEAKER_04
And they think that's safer than going out there and getting rejected by a new person.
2
SPEAKER_04
But actually this is the dangerous one.
2
SPEAKER_04
 So being rejected in five minutes by someone who doesn't even know you, who on an app, how much can someone really reject you anyway?
2
SPEAKER_04
And we all know our experience.
2
SPEAKER_04
We've all chosen people in life who on an app, we might've swiped right past.
2
SPEAKER_04
So we know from our own personal experience that if we get rejected on an app, it doesn't even mean that person wouldn't like us in real life.
2
SPEAKER_04
But we're so afraid of that rejection.
2
SPEAKER_04
That's mortal fear is that rejection and yet,
2
SPEAKER_04
 continuing to waste months or years on someone who's giving us unequal energy is something people happily do.
2
SPEAKER_04
They spend that time like it's nothing.
2
SPEAKER_04
And that's the really dangerous part.
2
SPEAKER_05
Because it feels safe.
2
SPEAKER_05
Because it feels like there's something at least.
2
SPEAKER_04
There's some connection.
2
SPEAKER_04
There's some comfort.
2
SPEAKER_04
Well, there's a couple of things.
2
SPEAKER_04
Firstly, it's comfortable, right?
2
SPEAKER_04
It's what I know.
2
SPEAKER_04
It doesn't mean I'm... Happiness and comfort are very different things.
2
SPEAKER_04
It's not happy.
2
SPEAKER_04
I'm not happy.
2
SPEAKER_04
I'm not getting my needs met.
2
SPEAKER_04
 but it's comfortable.
2
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_04
Right.
2
SPEAKER_04
So I'll stay in it for that reason.
2
SPEAKER_00
A new season of Bridgerton is here.
2
SPEAKER_00
And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm your host, Gabrielle Collins.
2
SPEAKER_00
And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
2
SPEAKER_00
Colin Bridgerton has returned from his travels abroad.
2
SPEAKER_00
Is Betrothal written in the stars for the eligible bachelor?
2
SPEAKER_00
 Meanwhile, the ton is reverberating with speculation of who holds Lady Whistledown's pen.
2
SPEAKER_00
We're discussing it all.
2
SPEAKER_00
I sit down with Nicola Coughlin, Luke Newton, Shonda Rhimes, and more to offer an exclusive peek behind the scenes of each episode of the new season.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
2
SPEAKER_00
Then fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_00
Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday.
2
SPEAKER_01
Guess what, Bango?
2
SPEAKER_01
What's up, Will?
2
SPEAKER_01
So iHeart is giving us a whole minute to promote our podcast, Part-Time Genius.
2
SPEAKER_02
 I know, that's why I spent my whole week composing a haiku for the occasion.
2
SPEAKER_02
It's about my emotional journey in podcasting over the last seven years, and it's called Earthquake House.
2
SPEAKER_01
Mango, I'm going to cut you off right there.
2
SPEAKER_02
Why don't we just tell people about our show instead?
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that's a better idea.
2
SPEAKER_02
So every week on Part-Time Genius, we feed our curiosity by answering the world's most important questions.
2
SPEAKER_02
Things like, when did America start dialing 911?
2
SPEAKER_02
Is William Shatner's best acting work in Esperanto?
2
SPEAKER_02
Also, what happened to Esperanto?
2
SPEAKER_01
 Plus, we cover questions like how Chinese is your Chinese food?
2
SPEAKER_01
How do dollar stores stay in business?
2
SPEAKER_01
And of course, is there an Illuminati of cheese?
2
SPEAKER_01
There absolutely is.
2
SPEAKER_02
And we are risking our lives by talking about it.
2
SPEAKER_02
But if you love mind-blowing facts, incredible history and really bad jokes, make your brains happy and tune in to Part-Time Genius.
2
SPEAKER_01
Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_03
 When the Taliban banned music in Afghanistan, millions were plunged into silence.
2
SPEAKER_03
Radios were smashed.
2
SPEAKER_03
Cassettes burned.
2
SPEAKER_03
You could be beaten or jailed or killed for breaking the rules.
2
SPEAKER_03
And yet, Afghans did it anyway.
2
SPEAKER_03
This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol.
2
SPEAKER_03
 The danger they endured.
2
SPEAKER_02
They said my head should be cut off.
2
SPEAKER_03
The joy they brought to the nation.
2
SPEAKER_00
You're free completely.
2
SPEAKER_03
No one is there to destroy you.
2
SPEAKER_03
I'm John Legend.
2
SPEAKER_03
Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_04
 anyone again, which is a fallacy because you found this person.
2
SPEAKER_04
You did it already, you know.
2
SPEAKER_04
And by the way, this person's not so unique that they're the only person in the world that's going to find you attractive.
2
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_04
Right.
2
SPEAKER_04
Like they're attracted to you because you're attractive.
2
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_05
But that's the crazy thing, right?
2
SPEAKER_05
We have this massive paradox between there's now unlimited choice more than ever.
2
SPEAKER_05
You feel like you have way more choice than you had before.
2
SPEAKER_05
But then we have
2
SPEAKER_05
 limitless fear to go with that, that we may not find anyone ever again.
2
SPEAKER_05
Like it's that weird thing, right?
2
SPEAKER_05
Like it's the idea of like, I don't, so I've never had to online date or app date.
2
SPEAKER_05
I became a monk when I was 21 and then my wife's been the only person I've been with since I left.
2
SPEAKER_04
 It's a really impressive age to become a monk, by the way.
2
SPEAKER_04
I feel like that's uniquely impressive is becoming a monk at 21.
2
SPEAKER_05
Well, I started at 14, so I had seven years of being a single man.
2
SPEAKER_04
Becoming a monk at 80?
2
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, I'll take that.
2
SPEAKER_05
I think I did it because of having to figure out some of this stuff.
2
SPEAKER_05
 But I, the last time I went on a date was apart from my wife was about what, like, I don't know, like 12, 13 years ago.
2
SPEAKER_05
So I never had to date from an app.
2
SPEAKER_05
The closest thing we had was high five.
2
SPEAKER_05
Do you remember high five?
2
SPEAKER_05
No.
2
SPEAKER_05
High five was like an early Facebook where it'd show you 200 to 300 friends in your network.
2
SPEAKER_05
Got it.
2
SPEAKER_05
And it was Facebook, but it was most people, most guys in their teens used it for dating.
2
SPEAKER_05
But the idea of.
2
SPEAKER_05
 You feel there's so much choice now.
2
SPEAKER_05
Like you just always, like you said, you're just swiping away, you're looking at profiles, everything, but at the same time, you feel like you'll never find someone again.
2
SPEAKER_05
What's happening there?
2
SPEAKER_05
What are you seeing there when you're speaking to people?
2
SPEAKER_04
I think there's a combination of things.
2
SPEAKER_04
It's people aren't experiencing
2
SPEAKER_04
 For a lot of people, they're not experiencing what they see as an endless ocean of choice.
2
SPEAKER_04
What they're experiencing is an endless ocean of disappointment, of constantly talking to people with it not going anywhere, being ghosted, talking to someone and that person never actually takes them up on going on a date.
2
SPEAKER_04
So it's like we're living a computer game version of dating, but I'm not actually meeting up in real life.
2
SPEAKER_04
 or, you know, meeting someone, it seems to be going well for a few dates and all of a sudden they disappear and, you know, or they're not interested anymore, it fizzles out.
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SPEAKER_04
And so it's a lot of disappointment.
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SPEAKER_04
But the ironic thing about that is that on the flip side, people experience that choice in a negative way.
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SPEAKER_04
So what they feel is the person I could be going, I'm going on a date with had endless choice.
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SPEAKER_04
And that brings out all of my insecurity.
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SPEAKER_04
 Because I feel like I'm never, how can I possibly compete with what Bo Burnham says is everything all the time.
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SPEAKER_04
I can't compete with that.
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SPEAKER_04
I can't compete with you having access to everyone in a 10 mile radius or more if you choose to have more.
2
SPEAKER_04
 That's something I, how do I possibly live up to that?
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SPEAKER_04
And that to me is at the root of so many people's lack of confidence, even their lack of authenticity when they go on a date because they're trying to be, they stop trying to connect and they start trying to be something they think the other person wants them to be.
2
SPEAKER_04
And now it's a departure from themselves.
2
SPEAKER_04
 Now, to me, the lesson here is the same as, you know, one of the things I really enjoy about working with people in their love lives is that there is, it's so transferable and universal to other domains.
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SPEAKER_04
So if you look at this, this problem of we're afraid, you know, we can't live up to the choice that somebody else has.
2
SPEAKER_04
That's actually true in business too.
2
SPEAKER_04
It's true in content creation, right?
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SPEAKER_04
Like I, I've had it in the last couple of years, I've had moments where
2
SPEAKER_04
 I look at just how many creators there now are and just how much video content is pumped online every day.
2
SPEAKER_04
 that I feel like I've overeaten and want to be sick.
2
SPEAKER_04
And I'm like, it can get to a point where even though, because in one sense, being good at something creates confidence, right?
2
SPEAKER_04
If you feel like you're a good partner and you're attractive and you have good qualities and so on, then you feel like a version of competence.
2
SPEAKER_04
 And the same is true in content creation.
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SPEAKER_04
I've been doing what I do for 15 years.
2
SPEAKER_04
I feel very competent when it comes to speaking into a microphone, going on TV, going on stage, making videos.
2
SPEAKER_04
And yet there's still moments where I've had just this little feeling of like,
2
SPEAKER_04
 Do I need, like, does the world need another voice?
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SPEAKER_04
Everyone is speaking all the time.
2
SPEAKER_04
And I mean, this is a side note rant, but like, you know, it's so funny.
2
SPEAKER_04
I was watching, there was like some thumbnails for a major podcast and this is no slant on it because I understand what happens with this, but it was so funny because I was like, there was one thumbnail that was like,
2
SPEAKER_04
 you know, be kind to yourself.
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SPEAKER_04
And then the next one was achieve through suffering.
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SPEAKER_04
There's like another one that's like push past your limits and ignore the realistic.
2
SPEAKER_04
And there's another one that's like motivation is BS.
2
SPEAKER_04
 And it was all the same podcast.
2
SPEAKER_04
But it's like every next thumbnail is like a piece of wisdom that contradicts in some way the last piece.
2
SPEAKER_04
But that I think is just, I think we're all force feeding ourselves content at the moment, just untenable.
2
SPEAKER_04
But when you're a creator in an environment like that, you can get to a point where you're like, does the world need me?
2
SPEAKER_04
Like, if I just stop talking, does it matter?
2
SPEAKER_04
Everyone else is saying it anyway, in a thousand different ways.
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SPEAKER_04
 What I tell myself is there is someone that uniquely vibes with my personality and the way I deliver the message.
2
SPEAKER_04
It's not about me worrying how do I grab that person's audience or
2
SPEAKER_04
 How can I appeal to everybody?
2
SPEAKER_04
It's just about me saying, you know what, William Zinsser, there's a wonderful book for life and writing.
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SPEAKER_04
Someone once said to me, every book on writing is a book on life.
2
SPEAKER_04
But there's a, William Zinsser wrote one of the seminal books on writing.
2
SPEAKER_04
 which I forget.
2
SPEAKER_04
I think it's on how to great writing or something.
2
SPEAKER_04
If you look up Williams in so people will find it but he says, you know, when you go to he said you may be a aspiring travel writer who when you think about going to Tokyo to write about Tokyo you think but thousands of travel writers have been to Tokyo and written about Tokyo.
2
SPEAKER_04
What do I possibly have to add?
2
SPEAKER_04
 And he says, but the world hasn't heard what your lens on Tokyo is.
2
SPEAKER_04
The world hasn't heard your take on Tokyo.
2
SPEAKER_04
And that might contain some idea or way of looking at things that
2
SPEAKER_04
 other people haven't actually done, or that you may say the same thing, but you may say it fresh.
2
SPEAKER_04
And so I tell myself that when I'm creating content, that it's not about appealing to everyone.
2
SPEAKER_04
It really is about saying, my take on this is interesting for its own sake to the people that vibe with me.
2
SPEAKER_04
The same is true in dating.
2
SPEAKER_04
I see that.
2
SPEAKER_04
 You, there is a specific audience for you and it doesn't have to be 99.999% of people.
2
SPEAKER_04
If you're looking for a serious relationship, it just has to be one.
2
SPEAKER_04
Those are amazing odds.
2
SPEAKER_05
That's a great analogy.
2
SPEAKER_05
I love that.
2
SPEAKER_05
It resonates, you're so right on both levels and you're spot on.
2
SPEAKER_05
It's weird that in dating too, we want to be attractive to everyone.
2
SPEAKER_05
 We want everyone to feel, just as a content creator, you want everyone to feel a certain way about you.
2
SPEAKER_05
And so I think that's such a great way of looking at it.
2
SPEAKER_05
And yeah, I love the idea, the writer you mentioned around the voice on Tokyo.
2
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, I always feel that.
2
SPEAKER_05
I'm like, we need more faces and more voices because there are just so many people that you can connect to that I can't connect to and vice versa with everyone else.
2
SPEAKER_05
And I see that all the time.
2
SPEAKER_05
 and whatever field you're into, right?
2
SPEAKER_05
Like I always say like there's enough space for the best athletes, the best actors, like there's so many actors, there's so many actresses, but there's always a new person that kind of makes it in and wins the upcoming actor award.
2
SPEAKER_00
That's really true.
2
SPEAKER_05
Actress award, because you kind of want to discover, and you also want the idea of discovery.
2
SPEAKER_05
And I think people almost make it like, I think we've always made it about like, oh, who's your top three?
2
SPEAKER_05
Who's your top five?
2
SPEAKER_05
 And the people that actually are watching and listening, they don't see it in a hierarchy.
2
SPEAKER_05
They just are like, oh, I listened to this group of people.
2
SPEAKER_05
That's usually how people think about it.
2
SPEAKER_05
I feel like even if someone asked me, like, who are your favorite authors?
2
SPEAKER_05
I don't have a categoric, like number one author.
2
SPEAKER_05
There's a group of authors that I love reading from.
2
SPEAKER_05
And I feel like that's how people, and in relationships, obviously, like you're saying, it's a much smaller pool.
2
SPEAKER_05
 but you having that intention is going to be much more clear.
2
SPEAKER_05
But tell me about your take on changing people.
2
SPEAKER_05
I wonder how much you get people saying, I'm with someone, I met someone, they have potential, I think I can change them.
2
SPEAKER_04
There's a quote from, I think it's Jacob M. Broad, where he says, consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand how foolish it is to think you can change somebody else.
2
SPEAKER_04
And that people should really let that sink in because
2
SPEAKER_04
 In the beginning of January, 60, 70, 80% of the world decides they want to get fit and healthy.
2
SPEAKER_04
What percentage of those people get fit and healthy?
2
SPEAKER_04
Those are people who want to change.
2
SPEAKER_04
They didn't make that resolution for nothing.
2
SPEAKER_04
They made it because they want that.
2
SPEAKER_04
It's not someone saying to them, you should really lose weight and them going, I'm fine.
2
SPEAKER_04
That's someone saying to themselves, I should really lose weight.
2
SPEAKER_04
 and they still can't do it.
2
SPEAKER_04
Now, consider being in a relationship with someone who's not even admitting that they need to change and thinking that they're going to change.
2
SPEAKER_04
 It would be on your heart of behalf, and I'm not saying it would be wrong to trust someone when they say this, but it's still speculative if you are in a relationship and you say, Matt, I'm going to change.
2
SPEAKER_04
That's still speculative for me.
2
SPEAKER_04
You might, it might be too hard.
2
SPEAKER_04
 It might be worth me staying if we have a lot of love between us and you're saying, I'm going to change because I say, you know what, that's if you're really committed to this, then game on, let's do this.
2
SPEAKER_04
But in order for that to happen, you have to first acknowledge that there's something to be changed and then show desire to change it.
2
SPEAKER_04
And frankly, to have any real credibility, show a plan for changing it.
2
SPEAKER_04
 when two people are in a relationship or two people break up and a woman comes to me and says, you know, two weeks later he came back and he said he'll never, you know, he wants me back and whatever and he's not going to hurt me again.
2
SPEAKER_04
I always say an important question to ask is why would it be different this time?
2
SPEAKER_04
 Not from an emotion, not from a like charged place, but a real curiosity.
2
SPEAKER_04
I get that you're telling me.
2
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_05
Has that person even thought about that part?
2
SPEAKER_04
Right.
2
SPEAKER_04
Like two weeks later, which is a suspect time anyway.
2
SPEAKER_04
Right.
2
SPEAKER_04
Because this is like, you're very much in the panic stage of I'll say anything to get you back right now.
2
SPEAKER_04
That's not considered, but fine.
2
SPEAKER_04
This is where we're at.
2
SPEAKER_04
We're two weeks out from our breakup.
2
SPEAKER_04
You're telling me you want me back and you'll never hurt me again.
2
SPEAKER_04
I get you want me back.
2
SPEAKER_04
 But what is it that's different this time?
2
SPEAKER_04
That's what I need to understand to feel safe to go down this road with you again.
2
SPEAKER_04
And so I think people can and do change, otherwise you and me would be out of a job.
2
SPEAKER_04
But change, if you are not the author of your own change,
2
SPEAKER_04
 then the idea that your partner is somehow gonna will you to change, you know, it's like telling your partner, I want you to do therapy.
2
SPEAKER_04
And then going, okay, I'll go.
2
SPEAKER_05
And that's the reason most people do go.
2
SPEAKER_05
 I find at least from people that I speak to or work with, you hear that so often that the number one reason people do go to therapy is because their partner kind of forced them into it and they kind of agreed to it.
2
SPEAKER_04
And that's a problem because you're hoping that they will see the value in it once they get there and they might, but someone needs to have some skin in the game.
2
SPEAKER_04
And so I just think that
2
SPEAKER_04
 Here's what I will say, because there are so many people in relationships or in situationships, if you want to call them that, that are convincing themselves, they're conning themselves that somebody else is one day going to be different.
2
SPEAKER_04
And at that point, you have to say to yourself, on what basis have you decided this?
2
SPEAKER_04
 What is it that this idea that they are, that some grand change is imminent?
2
SPEAKER_04
What is that based on?
2
SPEAKER_04
Is it based on them having said to you, Hey, I know that in these last few months or years or whatever, this has been a big problem in this relationship.
2
SPEAKER_04
And I know that's because of me.
2
SPEAKER_04
And this is something I am committed to changing.
2
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_04
 Have they said that?
2
SPEAKER_04
Because if they haven't, I have to ask, where is the logic here underpinning your argument that they're one day going to change?
2
SPEAKER_04
 Oh, this isn't about them that they're going to change or that they've even expressed a desire or a willingness or a commitment to change.
2
SPEAKER_04
This is about your demons calling the shots.
2
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_04
This is about your fear of losing someone because maybe they don't want to change.
2
SPEAKER_04
 But what's really happening is you don't want to lose someone.
2
SPEAKER_04
You don't want to be on your own again.
2
SPEAKER_04
You don't want to take the risk that there's something else out there where you can get your needs met on a higher level.
2
SPEAKER_04
And then it becomes about exploring yourself and saying, well, this person's been this way for years and I've complained about it for years.
2
SPEAKER_04
So is this still about them?
2
SPEAKER_04
Can I really keep saying this is about them?
2
SPEAKER_05
 That's so powerful, man.
2
SPEAKER_05
That really like hit a chord and I hope that everyone who's listening and watching, you know, that drops and sinks in for them as well because what you just said there, I think that's the dilemma that most people are in.
2
SPEAKER_05
Do I stay or do I go?
2
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_05
And you've just answered like, you know, that's how you know, like that's, it's clear.
2
SPEAKER_04
 You know, I sometimes look at videos of myself from years ago and I cringe because I, I'm like, I, you know, it's not what I'm saying might be factually right.
2
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_04
But the way I'm saying it, I was once, um, it's like looking at old hairstyles.
2
SPEAKER_05
It's the same thing.
2
SPEAKER_05
 It's like looking at old fashioned sense, old advice.
2
SPEAKER_04
Oh, I thought that looked good.
2
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_04
I thought that, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_04
I was in Beverly Hills when I first got to LA, I was about 25 and, and I was making a video in front of the Beverly Hills sign.
2
SPEAKER_04
I was like, I'm going to get the Beverly Hills sign in the background.
2
SPEAKER_04
And, and, and it was a video about getting over heart break.
2
SPEAKER_04
And I think it was like the three tips for getting over heartbreak.
2
SPEAKER_04
Right.
2
SPEAKER_04
Which by the way, as soon as you say three tips for getting over heartbreak, you already don't understand.
2
SPEAKER_04
 Because anyone who's deep in heartbreak is not coming to you going, what are your tips?
2
SPEAKER_04
They're going, save me from this existential doom I am in where life doesn't feel worth living right now.
2
SPEAKER_04
 You know, and I was making this video and at the end of the video, a guy came over, it's like a three, four minute video, because of course you can sum up how to get over deep, deep loss in three minutes.
2
SPEAKER_04
He came over and he said to me, you've never been heartbroken, have you?
2
SPEAKER_04
Someone who's just watching, just to listen to the whole, I didn't know he was listening, but he was like in earshot the whole time.
2
SPEAKER_04
And he was like, you've never been heartbroken, have you?
2
SPEAKER_04
 Now, 25 year old know it all me.
2
SPEAKER_04
I was like, in my head, because out loud, I went, no, I have.
2
SPEAKER_04
And yeah, I have.
2
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_04
And I like sort of shuffled on.
2
SPEAKER_04
In my head, I went, who do you think you are?
2
SPEAKER_04
Of course, I've like, what does this guy know?
2
SPEAKER_04
Like, oh, you know, so much more than me.
2
SPEAKER_04
He was right.
2
SPEAKER_04
 I had never been truly, I'd had time, I'd had things that like hurt me.
2
SPEAKER_06
Yeah, sure.
2
SPEAKER_04
I'd never been like crushed.
2
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_04
And having had that experience in my life now, the video I make is very different.
2
SPEAKER_04
How I talk about that is extremely different.
2
SPEAKER_04
 And the reason I say that is because I am aware that these things we're talking about here, it's very easy from a distance to say to people, this person hasn't changed in a long time.
2
SPEAKER_04
What makes you think they're going to change now?
2
SPEAKER_04
And why are you still there?
2
SPEAKER_04
And the why you're still there is because this stuff is so hard.
2
SPEAKER_04
Change is so hard.
2
SPEAKER_04
 leaving a situation.
2
SPEAKER_04
It's doing it, changing anything is hard.
2
SPEAKER_04
Like this is one of the things that I sort of, one of my gripes I suppose sometimes with some of the self-development rhetoric is that it makes things sound so much easier than they are and it sort of
2
SPEAKER_04
 it trivializes what are really difficult things.
2
SPEAKER_04
You know, most people, if they could just turn off their depression or their anxiety, if there was just a switch where they could go, they would do it.
2
SPEAKER_04
And it's a terrible thing to feel.
2
SPEAKER_04
So the fact that they are feeling it must mean it's very difficult for them to not feel that.
2
SPEAKER_04
 And the same is true of a relationship.
2
SPEAKER_04
If someone has stayed in an unhappy situation for a long time, that must mean it is incredibly difficult for them internally to make peace with the idea of leaving.
2
SPEAKER_04
And what's happening, of course, is in this moment where it's evident to all of their friends and family that they should leave and that they should never look back.
2
SPEAKER_04
 their abandonment issue that's been around their whole life is screaming at them.
2
SPEAKER_04
Screaming, using any tactic it can.
2
SPEAKER_04
 to get them to stay.
2
SPEAKER_04
And when they were in the relationship, the tactic it used maybe was to go into people pleaser mode.
2
SPEAKER_04
And even though this person's not treating me right, I'm gonna do anything I can to make them happy.
2
SPEAKER_04
Make every compromise, make every sacrifice, bend over backwards, subjugate my own needs to try and serve you, all in order so that I can keep you.
2
SPEAKER_04
And then at a point where you get so unhappy,
2
SPEAKER_04
 And you say, Oh my God, this person's terrible.
2
SPEAKER_04
I've had to lose myself in this relationship to make them happy.
2
SPEAKER_04
I'm going to leave.
2
SPEAKER_04
Just at the point of leaving, just as your friends are like, thank the Lord.
2
SPEAKER_04
They did it.
2
SPEAKER_04
They left.
2
SPEAKER_04
You go home that night and that abandonment demon realizes a different tactic has to be played.
2
SPEAKER_04
So it says, maybe they weren't so bad.
2
SPEAKER_04
 maybe like we're asking for too much maybe like you know they did have really great qualities didn't they i mean they were they were loyal and they they're a lovely person a lot of the time and