0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, comment if you want.
0
SPEAKER_01
Whatever, no pressure.
0
SPEAKER_02
It s chilly.
0
SPEAKER_02
Have you seen videos of people in New York right now?
0
SPEAKER_02
Why, what is it?
0
SPEAKER_01
Crazy cold.
0
SPEAKER_02
It s like people are leaking videos and it looks like they re about to fly away.
0
SPEAKER_01
I couldn t do it.
0
SPEAKER_01
As much as I romanticize it because it s like coats and scarves and it s cute, but actually I don t think I could do it.
0
SPEAKER_01
Also, your skin looks so glowy.
0
SPEAKER_02
I just got a highlighter.
0
SPEAKER_02
It was pushed on me by TikTok, and I fell for it.
0
SPEAKER_02
It looks great.
0
SPEAKER_01
Thanks.
0
SPEAKER_01
Very glowy.
0
SPEAKER_02
Because I never had— I never knew what to do.
0
SPEAKER_02
I felt intimidated by highlighter.
0
SPEAKER_02
There s so many, like, steps to do the no-makeup makeup look, and highlighter is an important part of it, and I didn t have any, and so I was like, I ll just do it.
0
SPEAKER_02
I love it.
0
SPEAKER_02
And so I m probably wearing way too much of it.
0
SPEAKER_01
No, it looks really nice.
0
SPEAKER_01
Of course, today I told Robby we didn t need video.
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh my god.
0
SPEAKER_02
You would have looked so pretty on that.
0
SPEAKER_02
You always look so pretty.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I m wearing your sweater.
0
SPEAKER_02
I ve worn this every day since you gave it to me.
0
SPEAKER_02
It looks great on you.
0
SPEAKER_02
I love wearing Monica outfits.
0
SPEAKER_02
I did a closet clean out.
0
SPEAKER_02
Massive closet clean out.
0
SPEAKER_01
Huge.
0
SPEAKER_01
Which always feels so good.
0
SPEAKER_02
Can you give tips for people, because I think this is extremely difficult to do.
0
SPEAKER_02
I aspire to clean out my closet and to be able to throw away things, but you actually did it.
0
SPEAKER_02
I do it often.
0
SPEAKER_01
You gave things that you actually wear.
0
SPEAKER_01
Well, I would say I gave things that I like, but I didn t give things that I currently am pulling out of the closet a lot.
0
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yes, I will give some tips on this if you re getting into it.
0
SPEAKER_01
You might need a buddy.
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh.
0
SPEAKER_01
It helps if you have somebody else there and someone who might be hard on you a little bit.
0
SPEAKER_01
Me.
0
SPEAKER_01
It would help if you had me there to say, you re not going to wear that.
0
SPEAKER_01
When was the last time you wore that?
0
SPEAKER_01
It s all prickly.
0
SPEAKER_01
It looks like you have had it for 10 years.
0
SPEAKER_01
Put it in the pile.
0
SPEAKER_01
I did that for my friend Gina, one of my best friends from childhood.
0
SPEAKER_01
Still one of my best friends, but maybe five or six years ago, I went to visit her in North Carolina and
0
SPEAKER_01
we did a big closet clean out for her.
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh, another hack.
0
SPEAKER_01
Put all the stuff in a couple big bags and then put it in a closet far away so you don t see it.
0
SPEAKER_01
You don t give it away yet.
0
SPEAKER_01
And you give yourself whatever, how much time?
0
SPEAKER_01
Two weeks, a month.
0
SPEAKER_01
If you haven t thought about any of those items in that time, gone.
0
SPEAKER_01
Gotta go.
0
SPEAKER_02
That, I think, was the greatest hack.
0
SPEAKER_02
Because you mentioned that.
0
SPEAKER_02
You re like, at first I was just making bags to put somewhere else.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_02
Ooh, what is that?
0
SPEAKER_00
The hack of all hacks.
0
SPEAKER_02
We re talking about hacks.
0
SPEAKER_00
Thought body optimization.
0
SPEAKER_01
We re talking about hacks for your closet.
0
SPEAKER_01
A little different.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
Closet clean out.
0
SPEAKER_00
Clacks.
0
SPEAKER_00
Closet hacks.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
Hacks.
0
SPEAKER_01
Dax is joining us today.
0
SPEAKER_00
You and I got a good thing going today.
0
SPEAKER_00
We re on fire.
0
SPEAKER_00
We started at 7.45 AM.
0
SPEAKER_01
We did.
0
SPEAKER_00
We already did one of our brainiest guests today.
0
SPEAKER_00
We kept up at that early hour.
0
SPEAKER_01
You did, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
I was tired for like 40 minutes.
0
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, no, we ve had a big day, but also- Riveting fact check.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s nice to have our resident armchair expert every now and then.
0
SPEAKER_00
So I just had to pop inside and back to the hack.
0
SPEAKER_00
Chia seed pudding.
0
SPEAKER_00
People probably are mildly familiar with it.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
Monica, have you ever made yourself?
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I used to make it constantly.
0
SPEAKER_01
I get in and out of it.
0
SPEAKER_01
I feel like it had its moment.
0
SPEAKER_02
It had a big moment.
0
SPEAKER_00
Okay, it s past.
0
SPEAKER_02
But you re sticking to it, which I respect.
0
SPEAKER_00
Well.
0
SPEAKER_02
Because it s not just a trend for you.
0
SPEAKER_00
But I do want to make a case for people, as I understand it.
0
SPEAKER_00
Mind you, I haven t actually prepared it for myself, but I ve watched Kristen prepare it.
0
SPEAKER_00
And to my knowledge, it can be more simple.
0
SPEAKER_00
You put a scoop of chia seeds in something, and then you fill that up with some water, or in our case, some ripple protein,
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, milk of some sort normally.
0
SPEAKER_00
Pop it in the fridge next morning, you have this delicious pudding.
0
SPEAKER_00
That was great, we love that.
0
SPEAKER_00
We just recently started adding a scoop, 30 grams of chocolate protein to it, and now it s like a fucking dessert.
0
SPEAKER_00
I can t believe I get to have it for breakfast.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s fun.
0
SPEAKER_00
Do you want to try it?
0
SPEAKER_00
Have a bite.
0
SPEAKER_01
Okay, I ll try a little bite.
0
SPEAKER_00
Be careful.
0
SPEAKER_01
Be careful, there s so much protein.
0
SPEAKER_01
Chia seeds have a lot of protein.
0
SPEAKER_00
Do they?
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh, wow.
0
SPEAKER_01
Mmm.
0
SPEAKER_01
Ooh, it is good.
0
SPEAKER_00
It s outrageous, right?
0
SPEAKER_00
Would you like to try some?
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
0
SPEAKER_01
Try a bite.
0
SPEAKER_02
We re all having it.
0
SPEAKER_00
I feel like we re passing a joint.
0
SPEAKER_00
This is great.
0
SPEAKER_02
Oh, that is good.
0
SPEAKER_02
That just tastes like regular pudding.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s right.
0
SPEAKER_02
I mean, like Jell-O.
0
SPEAKER_01
Chocolate pudding?
0
SPEAKER_01
Remember the pudding from all time?
0
SPEAKER_01
I do.
0
SPEAKER_02
Oh, my.
0
SPEAKER_01
The vanilla.
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh, my God.
0
SPEAKER_01
Do they not have it anymore?
0
SPEAKER_01
No.
0
SPEAKER_01
Why?
0
SPEAKER_01
They stopped.
0
SPEAKER_01
Why?
0
SPEAKER_01
That s a war crime.
0
SPEAKER_01
I know.
0
SPEAKER_01
They had a batch that they didn t feel was up to par.
0
SPEAKER_01
Probably still tasted great.
0
SPEAKER_01
But for them, you know, they have really high standards.
0
SPEAKER_01
And so they were like, we re not doing it until it can get back to its
0
SPEAKER_01
original plays, and it hasn t been back.
0
SPEAKER_01
It was so good.
0
SPEAKER_00
Do you think they re continuing to fight towards that previous benchmark, or have they thrown in the towel?
0
SPEAKER_01
Well, they re on vacation.
0
SPEAKER_02
It s like the second book curse.
0
SPEAKER_02
You know, you do something great once, and then you try and do it again, and then it s, you know, very difficult.
0
SPEAKER_00
Jackie Brown.
0
SPEAKER_01
They have the best desserts.
0
SPEAKER_01
Liz and I s soulmate dessert is their chocolate cake.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s the best chocolate cake in the world.
0
SPEAKER_02
I think.
0
SPEAKER_02
It s so good.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
At the risk of making you jealous, Liz, Monica and I have actually had the very best dessert that s ever been made.
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh, so random.
0
SPEAKER_01
We ll never have it again.
0
SPEAKER_00
Very average hotel, too.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s part of the beauty.
0
SPEAKER_01
We were at an average hotel.
0
SPEAKER_01
And we ordered a sticky toffee pudding.
0
SPEAKER_00
Fuck.
0
SPEAKER_01
It was like a random get, but then... Impulse buy, really.
0
SPEAKER_01
Changed your life.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s hard to know, though.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like, if we were at a fancy restaurant and we got it, I wonder...
0
SPEAKER_00
our expectations were low.
0
SPEAKER_00
But I ll add a wrinkle to actually bolster my claim, which is we had eaten Emily Burger for the first time that day.
0
SPEAKER_00
So we had already had our taste buds knocked the fuck out of the game, see?
0
SPEAKER_00
So really, it should have paled in comparison.
0
SPEAKER_01
You re right.
0
SPEAKER_01
What a day, what a food day.
0
SPEAKER_01
Where was this?
0
SPEAKER_01
New York.
0
SPEAKER_01
In Brooklyn.
0
SPEAKER_02
What s the best food day of your life?
0
SPEAKER_02
That s such an amazing question.
0
SPEAKER_02
I want to think about it because it s such a crucial one.
0
SPEAKER_02
What s the best food?
0
SPEAKER_00
While you re thinking, I would definitely rank for me that day as my, if not number one, I can t think of one right now that s better.
0
SPEAKER_00
I mean, my favorite burger I ve ever had in my life.
0
SPEAKER_00
And then having the favorite dessert I ve ever had in my life in one day.
0
SPEAKER_01
That was so Sim.
0
SPEAKER_01
That would definitely be up there for me.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, what s yours?
0
SPEAKER_01
That day and maybe another day in New York.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like it s always in New York.
0
SPEAKER_00
Are you missing that a lot?
0
SPEAKER_00
I do.
0
SPEAKER_01
I do.
0
SPEAKER_02
It s probably good because you ve changed your diet.
0
SPEAKER_02
I have.
0
SPEAKER_02
I wouldn t be able to enjoy the same things that I enjoyed.
0
SPEAKER_02
That s right.
0
SPEAKER_02
You might get sad.
0
SPEAKER_02
I don t know if you have this.
0
SPEAKER_02
You re not eating gluten either.
0
SPEAKER_02
I get a lot of joy out of seeing other people eat gluten.
0
SPEAKER_01
You do?
0
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
0
SPEAKER_02
You don t get jealous?
0
SPEAKER_02
I don t.
0
SPEAKER_02
I bring everyone to All Time so that they can eat the chocolate cake so I can watch them and like really take it in and feel like I m doing it too.
0
SPEAKER_00
I share that in common with you, which is like, I like when people do drugs.
0
SPEAKER_00
I encourage it.
0
SPEAKER_00
I think it s great.
0
SPEAKER_00
If I see someone smoking, I m like, God bless you, man.
0
SPEAKER_00
That looks great.
0
SPEAKER_02
As a waitress, I loved when people got drunk.
0
SPEAKER_02
I really enjoyed it.
0
SPEAKER_02
Sometimes you also did get drunk.
0
SPEAKER_02
I mean, not drunk.
0
SPEAKER_02
Well, sometimes.
0
SPEAKER_02
But seeing other people go through an experience, if you re in the same vicinity of it, you can kind of get the energy from it.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I have a whole theory on it because obviously I ve not drank in 19 years and I ve been around people drunk.
0
SPEAKER_00
So my take on it is if you start with them at zero, you can kind of join them and be mildly infected by their ebullience.
0
SPEAKER_00
Back this morning.
0
SPEAKER_01
That was big.
0
SPEAKER_00
I don t even know where that came from.
0
SPEAKER_01
Do we know if it s a real word?
0
SPEAKER_00
I m not sure.
0
SPEAKER_01
It is now.
0
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
0
SPEAKER_00
It s a great word.
0
SPEAKER_00
Now, but if you walk in and people are already at age, you re fucked.
0
SPEAKER_00
If you start on the ground floor with them, you can kind of... Can I poke a hole?
0
Please do.
0
SPEAKER_01
when our group of friends did mushrooms and you were sober, you didn t like that period of us coming to get high.
0
SPEAKER_01
Then you were fine once we were.
0
SPEAKER_00
Well, let s be clear.
0
SPEAKER_00
First of all, you guys micro-dosed, which I was against from the get-go.
0
SPEAKER_00
And then there was a period of everyone sitting around going like, I don t know.
0
SPEAKER_00
Can you feel it?
0
SPEAKER_00
Can I feel it?
0
SPEAKER_00
Look at your hand.
0
SPEAKER_00
Does this work?
0
SPEAKER_00
Like that whole phase.
0
SPEAKER_00
And no one had done enough.
0
SPEAKER_00
So I was like, this is such a waste of time.
0
SPEAKER_01
No, you even did it after you gave us enough.
0
SPEAKER_00
Then I gave you enough.
0
SPEAKER_00
Then there s a very predictable 15 minutes before people are high, or they re just evaluating, tricking themselves into whether they re not.
0
SPEAKER_00
And that part I did find laborious a bit.
0
SPEAKER_00
I ll pop back in when everyone s just high and they ve stopped talking about whether or not they re high.
0
SPEAKER_02
That s true and... Yeah, I see both.
0
SPEAKER_02
When do you get the most, I don t know if this still happens, but when does an environment increase like a craving or potentially make you wish you could?
0
SPEAKER_00
That s a good question.
0
SPEAKER_00
It certainly never happens with alcohol.
0
SPEAKER_01
I was gonna say probably more about the substance itself than the environment.
0
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
0
SPEAKER_00
And then shrooms, I will maintain this.
0
SPEAKER_00
I don t think that s an addictive thing.
0
SPEAKER_00
I ve never craved more when I was on it, and I never wanted it the next day.
0
SPEAKER_00
I ve never been around people blowing lines hard.
0
SPEAKER_00
Like if I was around people on coke, that might... I ve said that a bunch.
0
SPEAKER_00
I don t ever...
1
SPEAKER_02
to be around it because that one to me is the real triggering one.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, I also just start doing coke is like paying to be the most annoying person in the room.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like I ve never done it, but maybe you can also be like people are kind of annoying if you re not on coke.
1
SPEAKER_02
Again, I don t think I ve been around people that were gacked up without me being gacked up.
1
SPEAKER_02
So I m not sure.
1
SPEAKER_02
I don t really have any experience with that.
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, obviously I ll interact with somebody occasionally.
1
SPEAKER_02
I m like, oh, they re fucking
1
SPEAKER_02
Gack to the gills.
1
SPEAKER_02
They re eating their sandwich.
1
SPEAKER_01
They re eating their sandwich?
1
SPEAKER_01
An air sandwich.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s like chewing their lips.
1
SPEAKER_02
They re active, man.
1
SPEAKER_02
They re chewing nothing.
1
SPEAKER_02
And then they are so enthusiastically engaging in a very mundane conversation.
1
SPEAKER_02
I m like, oh yeah, okay, I remember this.
1
SPEAKER_02
Oh, can I ask, since we kind of dipped into it for a second, what are you missing most about New York and what are you liking most about it?
1
SPEAKER_02
I like to do it.
1
SPEAKER_02
I wanted a little city by city comparison.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s such a good question.
1
SPEAKER_01
I really miss the amount of interactions.
1
SPEAKER_01
that you have in New York without planning them.
1
SPEAKER_01
It is so nice to just have conversations or even eye contact, some sort of connection with many people throughout the day, which in New York is almost impossible.
1
SPEAKER_01
If you re going outside, you re like interacting with so many people.
1
SPEAKER_01
And that, I think, makes dating easier.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, I find dating hard in LA because you really have to be so deliberate and be like, we are meeting at this time.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it can be a half hour drive just to meet the person.
1
SPEAKER_01
Whereas in New York, you just run into people or it s more casual.
1
SPEAKER_01
You can drop in and it s not, you know, as much of a thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I think what I love about L.A.
1
SPEAKER_01
is my nervous system is so much more regulated here in a way that I think it would be jarring to go back to New York.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, when I do go back to New York, I notice it.
1
SPEAKER_02
There s less stimuli and you re less aroused.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes I m like, this is boring, you know, but it s more in line with being in my thirties.
1
SPEAKER_01
It feels more grown up a little bit.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I like, feel like it s cozier.
1
SPEAKER_01
The night we had at your place, just going through clothes and like moving your little armoire.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, I broke your lamp.
1
SPEAKER_00
It wasn t you.
1
SPEAKER_00
You don t have to take responsibility for that.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I had to outsource.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay, as people probably know who listen to any of our shows, I have 14 armoires.
1
SPEAKER_00
You re an armoire collector.
1
SPEAKER_02
You re one of the biggest armoire collectors on the West Coast.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I had to move one for the Christmas tree, and Ana and Jess moved it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Both strong.
1
SPEAKER_00
Jess is very tall.
1
SPEAKER_00
This armoire required, unfortunately, it s tall.
1
SPEAKER_00
So to get it from one side of the apartment to the other, you have to tilt it to get it through this arch.
1
SPEAKER_00
They did a great job.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now it s time to put it back.
1
SPEAKER_00
I needed help.
1
SPEAKER_00
Jess and Ana came back, and Liz was there also and was also helping.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I was making dumplings for everyone.
1
SPEAKER_00
Except Liz, who couldn t eat them.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it was going great.
1
SPEAKER_00
Actually, the armoire hadn t even been moved yet.
1
SPEAKER_00
We were just moving the couch and stuff around to get the armoire to its rightful place.
1
SPEAKER_00
And a lamp did shatter.
1
SPEAKER_02
Hmm.
1
SPEAKER_02
Under the care of Liz.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, Liz and Jess together is a bad guy.
1
SPEAKER_00
It was just a lot.
1
SPEAKER_00
They re just strong.
1
SPEAKER_00
And they shoved it right into the lamp and it did implode.
1
SPEAKER_00
But it was fine because I wanted to buy a new lamp anyway.
1
SPEAKER_01
You had an amazing, you were like a Buddha in that moment.
1
SPEAKER_01
I actually kept looking at you and being like, she s gonna eventually be mad.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, or like, be like, fuck, like, and now I have to, but you were just looking at lamps.
1
SPEAKER_02
It was a great opportunity.
1
SPEAKER_00
I did immediately.
1
SPEAKER_00
Glass half full.
1
SPEAKER_00
Look, I m not going to get too mad.
1
SPEAKER_00
I guess that s the upside of my love of shopping and love of material items.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t get that upset when one is ruined because I know that there s always more.
1
SPEAKER_02
You have an abundant viewpoint?
1
SPEAKER_00
I do have an abundance mindset for that.
1
SPEAKER_00
For lamps.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then circling back.
1
SPEAKER_02
Oh no, you have scarcity mentality for arm wires.
1
SPEAKER_02
If you see one, you ve got to get it.
1
SPEAKER_02
Might be the last one.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, it normally is because they re vintage.
1
SPEAKER_00
But then this leads me back to what we were talking about before you stepped in, closet clean outs.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
I get rid of a lot of clothes and you were able to take some, which is always so fun.
1
SPEAKER_02
How the fuck are you taking Monica s clothes?
1
SPEAKER_00
That s my sweater.
1
SPEAKER_02
Oh.
1
SPEAKER_02
You guys have much different body types.
1
SPEAKER_00
We do.
1
SPEAKER_00
They re very short.
1
SPEAKER_00
It fits differently, but still great.
1
SPEAKER_00
Also, that sweater in particular never fit me right, probably because it wasn t really for my body, but I just loved the way it looked, so it worked out perfectly.
1
SPEAKER_00
Hmm.
1
SPEAKER_00
You ve done this.
1
SPEAKER_00
You ve done big closet clean outs.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s nice to know that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
Sometimes I m in a group and I look and I start noticing like, oh yeah, there s a piece of my clothing on.
1
SPEAKER_00
I love it.
1
SPEAKER_02
It makes you feel less wasteful.
1
SPEAKER_00
It can have many lives.
1
SPEAKER_02
I ve long wanted to ask this, but this just brought it to the surface, which is.
1
SPEAKER_02
I have such curiosity of how you and Jess get along.
1
SPEAKER_02
No one ever likes being told they re like anyone else, but I feel like you guys have a lot of similar characteristics.
1
SPEAKER_02
They can always go one of two ways.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s either oil and oil or oil and water, whatever.
1
SPEAKER_02
I ve been very curious how your guys  interactions are.
1
SPEAKER_01
I love Jess.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t know how Jess feels about me.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think at first I thought he didn t like me, but I love Jess.
1
SPEAKER_01
I adore him.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I do see kind of the similar, we re both a little.
1
SPEAKER_00
You guys are similar in a lot of ways.
1
SPEAKER_00
You re different in ways too.
1
SPEAKER_02
For sure.
1
SPEAKER_02
But obviously the yin and yang that you two have was also the same yin and yang that Monica and he have.
1
SPEAKER_02
Like one is more impulsive, one s dating a ton, but one s not dating at all, but neither person has a long-term.
1
SPEAKER_02
These things are pretty similar.
1
SPEAKER_01
And we had a conversation, actually, at your closet clean-out.
1
SPEAKER_01
You and Jess were connecting.
1
SPEAKER_01
We were.
1
SPEAKER_01
We were both being a little… Well, we weren t being shamed, but you guys were like… So, basically, I thought it was a good public shaming.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was like, oh, I needed to hear this.
1
SPEAKER_01
So, at one point, we re talking about dating or whatever, and I used the term out of my league.
1
SPEAKER_01
And maybe I used it more than once or something like that to refer to different people or maybe with my roommate s situation.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was like, she s out of his league.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, she s way harder than him.
1
SPEAKER_01
And Ana, you and Julia were kind of reactive to that and were like, why are you using that term?
1
SPEAKER_01
That s not a thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, that s not true.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then Jess was like, yeah, I guess I do do that.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m like, oh, that guy is way hotter and you feel good when you get someone that s like out of your league.
1
SPEAKER_01
And at that point, I did think like, oh, yeah, Jess and I do have things that I probably haven t even thought about in common.
1
SPEAKER_00
What do you think?
1
SPEAKER_00
Can I say something really, really quick?
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_00
You said that you went on a date with someone who is out of your league.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s how it started.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_00
You weren t saying people were below you.
1
SPEAKER_00
You were saying someone was above you, which led to...
1
SPEAKER_00
No, they re not out of your league.
1
SPEAKER_00
You believe them to be because of X, Y, and Z, but that is not true.
1
SPEAKER_00
You re offering so much that they aren t, and how are you evaluating this?
1
SPEAKER_00
It was to tell you that you re better than who you think you are.
1
SPEAKER_02
To bolster your assessment of yourself.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yes, but it s also- When you say shame, is it because you felt like what they were suggesting is that you were vain and trivial?
1
SPEAKER_01
I think my immediate reaction was, oh, I m, like, less evolved, and they have a much more evolved view of dating and relationships, and I m creating these hierarchies, and I value power and status and give importance to that, and, like, they don t.
1
SPEAKER_01
I, like, thought a lot about it the whole week afterwards.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was like, all right.
1
SPEAKER_01
I still do believe in the— I believe in numbers.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, I think that there are 10s, and then there are 7s.
1
SPEAKER_01
And, like, a 10 to me could be a 7 to you, but I do think that there are rankings.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, you have a hierarchy in your mind of what you find most attractive and also what would be the most desirable occupation for somebody and what would, yeah, I think it d be naive and untruthful to say we don t have some hierarchical preferences.
1
SPEAKER_00
We obviously do, but it s based on so many factors.
1
SPEAKER_00
So for me, there isn t a 10.
1
SPEAKER_00
I really believe that.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m not just saying that to be like, you guys, that s bad.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t know a 10.
1
SPEAKER_02
But do you have a hottest in your mind?
1
SPEAKER_00
Based on what?
1
SPEAKER_00
That s the thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes, I know 10 physicality.
1
SPEAKER_00
They re not a 10 to me as a whole.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like that math makes no sense to me.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like if you re averaging out all the things, how smart they are, how funny they are, how sweet they are, how hot.
1
SPEAKER_00
There s so many things to give a number to that I can t do it like that.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, what I liked about your response, because you referenced someone that you d been on a date, like dates with, that there was not a league thing, but sort of similar to that.
1
SPEAKER_01
And what you said was, we re in different places in our lives.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
By the way, that person is out of my league in a lot of ways, but he s not out of my league in the ways that matter to me.
1
SPEAKER_00
So that s my whole point.
1
SPEAKER_00
What are we doing?
1
SPEAKER_00
But to him, you re out of his league based on what maybe what he values too.
1
SPEAKER_00
We don t know that.
1
SPEAKER_00
We don t know how he evaluated me.
1
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
1
SPEAKER_02
Let s get him on the phone, Rob.
1
SPEAKER_02
Patch him through.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I don t think he did think that.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, so when there s a significant difference in money, I think for guys, I think that s hard to overcome.
1
SPEAKER_01
It can be, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think women can overlook it a little bit more, but I think for guys, if they can t offer that.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s an ego thing, for sure.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s an ego thing in our society and what men are supposed to bring to relationships versus what women are supposed to bring in relationships.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think when men can t.
1
SPEAKER_01
Stereotypically.
1
SPEAKER_01
Totally stereotypically.
1
SPEAKER_01
And again.
1
SPEAKER_02
date laterally and above and mandate laterally and below.
1
SPEAKER_00
But again, that s based on average.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like I financially likely am not going to date laterally or above.
1
SPEAKER_00
Let s be.
2
SPEAKER_02
Honest.
2
SPEAKER_02
So that doesn t mean I just like... Bill Gates is single.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, fuck.
2
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I forgot.
2
SPEAKER_00
So is Brad Pitt.
2
SPEAKER_02
A lot of them.
2
SPEAKER_02
Man.
2
SPEAKER_02
Never mind.
2
SPEAKER_02
I take it back.
2
SPEAKER_02
I am gonna... I m just saying, that s not even on my radar of trying.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think that s great that you are able to completely ignore that.
2
SPEAKER_01
People are going to find me unlikable, but I find that it s harder to date the more successful I get.
2
SPEAKER_01
In my 20s, when I was dating, I didn t… And even if there was a gap in sort of success, it was still like malleable.
2
SPEAKER_01
Whereas now, it s like we re in different places.
2
SPEAKER_02
OK, so you find it harder because of people who aren t as successful as you are threatened by it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think it goes both ways.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think there must be some level of feeling intimidated, but I actually think it s even more coming from me where, yeah, I ll be on a date and I talk to you about this date.
2
SPEAKER_01
I d been on like a FaceTime date.
2
SPEAKER_01
At one point, he references like, oh yeah, I could never live in New York.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s way too expensive.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, okay, well, that— Again, not that I— You didn t like that.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, it makes me think, well, that would actually potentially curtail my career, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, if there are certain places we can t live— Like, right now, obviously, I live in L.A., but I might have to live in New York at one point.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so, if you can t afford to live— You know what I mean?
2
SPEAKER_01
I hated that it created this internal—
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, I would argue, though, that there was actually a deeper thing under what that person said, which is I couldn t live there.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s too expensive.
2
SPEAKER_00
So what you ve learned already is that ambition wise, they don t even hold that as an option.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s not obviously something they re going to pursue.
2
SPEAKER_00
So they ve they ve almost capped their own ambition outwardly.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s okay to want a partner who s ambitious and engaged in fighting the fight.
2
SPEAKER_00
So it s like, it s also really important to understand what the subtext of everything you re responding to is.
2
SPEAKER_00
It might not be literally you can or cannot be in New York, but anyone that says like, I could never do this.
2
SPEAKER_00
They ve told you a little bit about their own expectations.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that s true.
2
SPEAKER_02
I mean, also these things are primal, right?
2
SPEAKER_02
Like there s a deeper thing underneath of this person can t take care of me if they re not financially strong.
2
SPEAKER_02
Right.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I have a luxury.
2
SPEAKER_02
I don t need someone to take care of me financially.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I don t think you do either.
2
SPEAKER_00
Clearly.
2
SPEAKER_02
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_02
But I think you think you do, if I m being honest.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think you still place yourself in a,
2
SPEAKER_02
You don t see your level of success.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think you have a hard time seeing it, which is nice.
2
SPEAKER_02
It makes you modest.
2
SPEAKER_02
But in dating, I think that can maybe be a problem for you because you don t see everything you come to the table with and you don t need anyone to fill those spaces.
2
SPEAKER_02
Sync to supported by Rocket Money.
2
SPEAKER_02
Okay, this just happened where I think I might have like three or four, but I just realized that I had two subscriptions and these are not cheap, they add up.
2
SPEAKER_02
So frustrating.
2
SPEAKER_02
And Rocket Money, it s a personal finance app, and it finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions.
2
SPEAKER_02
It monitors your spending.
2
SPEAKER_02
It helps lower your bills.
2
SPEAKER_02
I feel like a lot of these subscription services now are banking on you forgetting.
2
SPEAKER_01
They are.
2
SPEAKER_01
I feel like it s the new frontier in consumer, like, human rights, if that s a thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because I started playing guitar, and I realized because of Rocket Money, I was paying for, again, two subscriptions to one little guitar app.
2
SPEAKER_01
And again, it s like $15 a month.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like these things are not, it s not like $1.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re saving.
2
SPEAKER_01
It adds up, especially if you think about it for over like several years that you re doing this.
2
SPEAKER_02
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_02
And Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has helped save its members an average of $720 a year with over $500 million in canceled subscriptions.
2
SPEAKER_01
So stop wasting your money on things that you don t use.
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SPEAKER_01
Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash sync.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s rocketmoney.com slash sync, S-Y-N-C, rocketmoney.com slash sync.
2
SPEAKER_02
We are supported by Open.
2
SPEAKER_02
If you want to know the secret to pretty much anything.
2
SPEAKER_02
Stress.
2
SPEAKER_02
I mean really stress.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s breathwork.
2
SPEAKER_02
And it s why we love the Open app.
2
SPEAKER_02
Because we are constantly trying out things to feel grounded to the earth.
2
SPEAKER_02
And you know, some things work, some things don t, but one thing that s always working is breathing.
2
SPEAKER_01
I find breathwork to be one of the most underrated practices out there for mental health and physical health.
2
SPEAKER_01
And Open is the first one that I ve really found is just so easy to use and makes me want to do breathwork.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because sometimes breathwork can be like, I mean, it s not a chore, but it s like another thing on your list, but it really only takes five minutes a day and it feels so good to do it.
2
SPEAKER_02
I really like doing it before sleep.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
Because I end up like staying up and kind of tossing and turning.
2
SPEAKER_02
But when I m using the Open app and I use their meditations before bed, I m asleep in under 10 minutes.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s really incredible.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it s so well designed.
2
SPEAKER_02
If you want to get on our daily routine, you can get 30 days free of Open by visiting withopen.com slash synced.
2
SPEAKER_02
Again, 30 days free by visiting withopen.com slash synced.
2
SPEAKER_00
Can I ask a question of both of you?
2
SPEAKER_00
It would be easy to be dishonest in this moment, maybe even unaware, but how much of that, this whole league thing, is your own assessment and then what percentage of it is your factoring and also what your friendship group would think of this pairing?
2
SPEAKER_00
I want to know how...
2
SPEAKER_00
Weighted that is because I think there s two things happening here.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s wow.
2
SPEAKER_00
I fell in love with this person.
2
SPEAKER_00
They surfed their mom s couch I don t really care It s gonna be a bummer to bring him out to dinner and I m gonna sit there while everyone asks What do you like do we know what percentage is what because I think another way through this would be to hone in on your own
2
SPEAKER_00
personal values and measures and ignore the external ones, which is hard.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I think there s growth within that as well, which is like, yeah, this motherfucker doesn t do a thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
Check him out.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I m in love with him.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, I wonder how much is the pressure of your social group.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s so extreme, though, right?
2
SPEAKER_02
Because we are not going to be attracted to someone who does nothing.
2
SPEAKER_02
I mean, I m not like that s just boring.
2
SPEAKER_02
I need that.
2
SPEAKER_02
I need
2
SPEAKER_02
a partner to have something going on.
2
SPEAKER_02
It doesn t need to be high status or it doesn t need to be extremely financially lucrative.
2
SPEAKER_00
But inaction is a turnoff.
2
SPEAKER_02
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_02
But if they re like a fucking awesome third grade teacher, yes, that s amazing.
2
SPEAKER_02
And that s something I don t have and they re doing and that s great.
2
SPEAKER_02
I d be happy to bring someone like that to a group.
2
SPEAKER_00
But back to, do you ever feel yourself modeling out the interaction among your peer group?
2
SPEAKER_00
What the response will be when you present this person.
2
SPEAKER_00
I do, I do.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think everyone goes to some degree.
2
SPEAKER_02
I don t think I ve gotten far enough.
2
SPEAKER_02
I just haven t gotten far enough to get there.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, let me ask you, there s two different dudes you were dating a few months ago.
2
SPEAKER_00
When you were on these dates, did it ever cross your mind like,
2
SPEAKER_00
OK, what would happen if I brought this person to a pot hang?
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, did that enter your analysis at all?
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
I was still so far out.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
It was not even remotely on the table yet.
2
SPEAKER_02
I was still evaluating my time with them.
2
SPEAKER_00
There was a recent interaction with somebody that was very high status that I thought was mutually quite cute and connected.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I saw that there was something brewing between you and this other person.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then I
2
SPEAKER_00
I myself thought, wow, what a great addition to the pod this person would be.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then how could you not feel like the person I brought is additive?
2
SPEAKER_00
Like this is a good offering.
2
SPEAKER_00
I went out and snagged for us as a collective, like it s in the mix and it s fair for it to be in the mix.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think even more than that, for me, it s like a litmus test where I ll be like, what would, and sometimes I do do it with you guys.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m like, what would they think?
2
SPEAKER_01
Would they think they re funny?
2
SPEAKER_01
And sort of seeing that person through the eyes of the people that you respect and that you care about when you re unsure, or again, you re like sussing someone out is interesting.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and I don t think it should be binary.
2
SPEAKER_00
Either you include that or you don t.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s just like, what is the percentage?
2
SPEAKER_00
And what do we think is a productive percentage to be considering that?
2
SPEAKER_00
Because I do think a lot of people are very happy.
2
SPEAKER_00
Look at these men.
2
SPEAKER_02
I know.
2
SPEAKER_00
Who are with these trophy people.
2
SPEAKER_00
My friend Eric was just showing me a post of this dude he s friends with who s a billionaire who s with this person.
2
SPEAKER_00
I was looking at it and reading the thing and I was like, this would kill.
2
SPEAKER_00
kill me.
2
SPEAKER_00
I d be so embarrassed to be showing up to dinner with a 23 year old.
2
SPEAKER_00
So that s in the mix.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like when I think about myself moving through the world at 50 years old with a 20, that s humiliating to me.
2
SPEAKER_00
So that is, it s on the table.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
All of those things are things that you think through.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think that s what s so hard about dating is you re like, oh yeah, my friends don t like him, but I like him.
2
SPEAKER_01
Does that mean I should be with him?
2
SPEAKER_01
I should do what my heart wants and I m in this relationship, but it s really hard to, there s just so many factors to take into consideration into the equation of whether you should be with someone.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I do think minimally, we could probably all agree that it shouldn t be more than 50%.
2
SPEAKER_00
It should not.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_02
And you can t be with someone
2
SPEAKER_02
In order, not you, in general, in order to elevate your status within your group.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, no.
2
SPEAKER_02
So it s not like, I should date this person because people in the group will think that s cool.
2
SPEAKER_02
That is not gonna work.
2
SPEAKER_02
Then it s not about the relationship.
3
SPEAKER_02
you re starting it off in a ledger.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean, I guess that s part of why it s nice to start out in these groups single, because you re already you, you bring your own shit to the table.
3
SPEAKER_02
You hope that whoever else comes with you isn t gonna detract or enhance.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, enhanced would be great.
3
SPEAKER_02
But it shouldn t, I mean, they can be a cool addition that people can like, but it shouldn t enhance you.
3
SPEAKER_00
But there might be a version of you that s in love and having fun that actually makes a better version of you.
3
SPEAKER_00
Even though you are a perfect version on your own, this union might elevate the whole thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s the ideal, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
You become a better version of yourself when you re with that person.
3
SPEAKER_02
I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_02
I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean, yes, I hear what you re saying.
3
SPEAKER_02
I also think it s dangerous because these things are tenuous.
3
SPEAKER_02
So I don t think that.
3
SPEAKER_02
I think I want a partner to enhance my life and have great conversation and go to dinner, do like make my life more enriched, but not make me better or more likable or more happier.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like I want to be happy with or without.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I,
3
SPEAKER_02
I am for the most part.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I ll say that I trusted people less.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was less optimistic.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was less patient.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was more road ragey.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was more greedy.
3
SPEAKER_00
I got all those qualities.
3
SPEAKER_00
from Kristen, not because she asked me to, but because I observed how she was moving through life and I noticed the results of which, and I would have been foolish to deny those.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s just like, hey, I m watching someone try a technique.
3
SPEAKER_00
Lo and behold, that s helped with a similar problem I have.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I think it s made me more appealing through having been in a relationship with her.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I think that also happens too.
3
SPEAKER_02
You ve learned stuff from her.
3
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_02
You ve learned stuff from her, she s learned stuff from you.
3
SPEAKER_00
But her example has made me, I think I m more, back to the point, like, I think you guys enjoy being around me more simply because I did adopt some of the qualities she has.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, you learn from her.
3
SPEAKER_02
But if she were to go away, now you have those things.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s not like now this entity is better.
3
SPEAKER_02
Your relationship with her, just like your relationship with
3
SPEAKER_02
many people.
3
SPEAKER_02
It doesn t necessarily have to be an intimate partner you can gain stuff from.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right.
3
SPEAKER_00
And you don t need a thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve been best friends with you for eight years and it s been great.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m not asking you to get better in any way.
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, I do need to get better.
3
SPEAKER_00
But the notion that you would have liked me 17 years ago, I guarantee it.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
But you would probably like this version more.
3
SPEAKER_00
So what I m saying is like, yes, I already like you, but my hunch is there s a possibility that I would only like you even more in four years.
3
SPEAKER_02
You might like me less.
3
SPEAKER_00
I could like you less.
3
SPEAKER_02
There are things that happen in relationships where you change in other ways that maybe you d be like, oh, fuck.
3
SPEAKER_02
That s normally what happens when I see people enter relationships.
3
SPEAKER_02
Things go away.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like what?
3
SPEAKER_02
Availability or more?
3
SPEAKER_02
No, not just availability, even like parts of personalities get dimmed.
3
SPEAKER_02
That happens.
3
SPEAKER_02
I ve been around so many people who ve paired up in my lifetime.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s not always good.
3
SPEAKER_00
And to your point, there are probably some of my friends from Detroit that would argue I have gotten worse, like that I ve gotten more naive or that I have gotten soft or that I have gotten delusioned or, you know, so probably sure.
3
SPEAKER_00
Some folks from my past might think that these changes have been degrading.
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, there s also a thing of like, do you think, this is kind of controversial, but do you think women, because I can relate a little bit to what you re saying where some of my, but it only applies to my female friends, my male friends.
3
SPEAKER_00
You don t see dudes losing themselves.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but women, you can, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
And it s not that they become a worse version of themselves, but they become more sort of, yeah, different.
3
SPEAKER_02
I ll be fair.
3
SPEAKER_02
I can think of two examples with men where it s happened, where there s like a shininess that has gone away.
3
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
3
SPEAKER_02
Do you think that s because they re with the wrong person?
3
SPEAKER_02
No, I don t.
3
SPEAKER_02
I think it s about the compromise that s happened in their life.
3
SPEAKER_02
They might be a better person in general, or there s things that are better for their life, but as just like a hang.
3
SPEAKER_02
Things are gone.
3
SPEAKER_02
Interesting.
3
SPEAKER_00
I kind of know who that is.
3
SPEAKER_02
Are you afraid that that s going to happen to you?
3
SPEAKER_02
I don t think it can because I don t think I ll be in a relationship at this point in my life.
3
SPEAKER_02
I m unwilling to shed parts of my personality that I like.
3
SPEAKER_02
happy to shed the ones I don t, and if that person can be responsible for it, great.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I don t know, though.
3
SPEAKER_01
Who knows?
3
SPEAKER_01
I think relationships can reveal to you the more difficult parts of yourself, but you have to be willing to like work through them, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Which you, you know, working through, I don t know, road rage, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Or like, that must have been still difficult or confronting, and you had to be like, okay, I m going to work on this.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m going to add, though, that she never said to me I needed to be more like her, and I never said to her she needed to be more like me.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you re trying to change somebody, you probably shouldn t be in this relationship, if you think it s your job to change them.
3
SPEAKER_00
But if just by being an example of equality ends up appealing to your partner and they adopt it, that to me seems great.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I think what happens a lot with like these women who lose their personalities, like the dude s really controlling, he s threatened by some part of her personality, and then he starts rigorously trying to snuff that out.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that s poor things.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think it s like men are attracted to these whimsical, free-spirited creatures.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then as soon as they re with them, they re terrified that that same whimsy will take them away from them.
3
SPEAKER_02
They re attracted to their singleness in some ways.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like the things that make you single, which is this sort of like, I can do whatever I want.
3
SPEAKER_02
I do whatever I want.
3
SPEAKER_02
They like that.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then in the relationship, that part is obviously inherently gone.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s connected to availability in some ways.
3
SPEAKER_00
This happens.
3
SPEAKER_00
Almost every female huge musician we interview, or even Paris Hilton, it s like, they re completely attracted to the power they have.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then the second that they re linked to it, they feel small compared to it, and that this powerful person will have better options than them.
3
SPEAKER_00
So the only way to limit their options is to reduce their power.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t even know that they re conscious of it.
3
SPEAKER_00
But it s like, seems to be one of the most well-worn patterns and tropes you see, is just like, all these men who are attracted to these powerful women, the second they re with them, they re like, well, everyone s attracted to their power, just like I was.
3
SPEAKER_00
I gotta get rid of this power.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m too insecure.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and it s this idea that like, which I definitely used to do, which I was very attracted to powerful men or like men who were extremely confident.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like what was the minimum bench press they had to do?
3
SPEAKER_01
The minimum, I have no idea.
3
SPEAKER_00
Just be literal with power.
3
SPEAKER_01
Right.
3
SPEAKER_01
flip side is when you re with a person like that, yeah, they re super fun.
3
SPEAKER_01
They re super gregarious.
3
SPEAKER_01
And actually, it made me more confident because I would see how they would act and how they would respond to life.
3
SPEAKER_01
They didn t tell me to do things differently, but I was like, oh, wow, that s so much better.
3
SPEAKER_01
But then yeah, the flip side is then when you re with your own group of friends, they take up all of the oxygen and like they re going to do that
3
SPEAKER_01
right when they re doing their shiny thing, but they re going to do it in your life too.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so at a certain point, I had to also be like, I can t just want that one part of them in that one setting or a few settings, but not the other settings.
3
SPEAKER_01
I have to live with, with, yeah, there s always a positive and a negative to every quality and being accepting to all the parts.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think it does happen in reverse and I think I ve observed it and hopefully I ve been critical enough of men to now say this without getting burned at the stake.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I also, I think I ve observed this with women doing it to men in terms of sports stars, which is they find this literally a hyper male.
3
SPEAKER_00
They over index on testosterone by like three X.
3
SPEAKER_00
There are three standard deviations above.
3
SPEAKER_00
They re in the paint battling dudes.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then when they also are on the road and cheat, that s a shock.
3
SPEAKER_00
And to me, there s something teensy bit naive about this.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, well, you can t want the hyper over-indexing, testosterone-sweating phenom, and then for him to be a church mouse as soon as he leaves the court.
3
SPEAKER_00
That seems a little naive.
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, if he says I m committing, I probably wouldn t do it because I do think that you re right.
3
SPEAKER_02
But if they aren t committing and you re just like, but we ve been dating a long time and like they should at this point be committed to me.
3
SPEAKER_02
No, they re not going to.
3
SPEAKER_02
This is who they are.
3
SPEAKER_02
This is who they want to be.
3
SPEAKER_02
I do think if people say that I m committing and then they don t, that s unfair.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like it is.
3
SPEAKER_02
People shouldn t go against their word.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I ve said a lot a bunch of times and people hate when I say this, but I actually think it s just me being enormously realistic, which is like, I met Kristen.
3
SPEAKER_00
She s a movie star.
3
SPEAKER_00
She is away on sets for months at a time, pretending she s in love with people.
3
SPEAKER_00
I like the whole package.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve taken on more risk.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve taken on the risk of far more people are attracted to her.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve taken on the risk of she s alone and pretending to be in love with people.
3
SPEAKER_00
So it s like, I can t have this prized,
3
SPEAKER_00
elusive thing and not acknowledge that I m taking on more risk.
3
SPEAKER_00
I have to be a little more realistic about my expectations.
3
SPEAKER_00
I entered it going like, there may be a day in her mid 40s she makes out with a dude in her trailer, and I think I can live with that, and I can.
3
SPEAKER_00
Because if I wanted someone that there was no threat, I would marry someone that doesn t leave their house and no one knows exists and no one s attracted to.
3
SPEAKER_00
That would be the safest bet for me.
3
SPEAKER_02
I think it s fine that you can look at it like that.
3
SPEAKER_02
I think it s
4
SPEAKER_01
great you can, I think it s also okay for people to expect commitment.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think if someone says, I do have a lot of options in this life, they have to understand, I m gonna have a lot of temptation in this life, I m gonna have a lot of options, but I m choosing this person every day.
4
SPEAKER_00
I agree with you.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think both parties can be very naive.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think the dude making the commitment or the movie star female making the commitment often isn t,
4
SPEAKER_00
entirely realistic with what their life s going to be like in this role.
4
SPEAKER_00
So I think it s on both sides, but I just think you don t get something for nothing.
4
SPEAKER_00
And it s denying the reality of risk.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s measurable degrees of risk and they vary and they re predictable.
4
SPEAKER_00
And sure, there s outliers and this and that, but I don t think you can want your cake and eat it too.
4
SPEAKER_00
You want the hottest dude in school?
4
SPEAKER_00
Guess what?
4
SPEAKER_00
Every other girl thinks he s hot too.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s the reality.
4
SPEAKER_00
He s got all the options.
4
SPEAKER_00
If you want no threats, go to the dude that no one likes.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s no options.
4
SPEAKER_02
And maybe he ll cheat on you too, right?
4
SPEAKER_02
Exactly.
4
SPEAKER_02
Sure.
4
SPEAKER_00
But I m not saying it s okay.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m just talking about living realistically.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Within you want huge rewards, you take on more risk.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s pretty consistent across everything.
4
SPEAKER_01
But again, huge rewards.
4
SPEAKER_01
You re saying the huge reward is that you get the status that that person has.
4
SPEAKER_01
Like, that s why we can t be searching for that.
4
SPEAKER_01
You have to be searching for the connection.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s not about the movie star person or the person no one likes.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s what is happening between two people.
4
SPEAKER_02
Not just like the status, but someone like Kristen is like, she s so talented and, you know, has all these qualities.
4
SPEAKER_00
Unless triggering word would be charisma, because it s not really status implicit.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s just like someone with enormous amounts of charisma, you are going to be attracted to, and so is everyone else.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s how it is.
4
SPEAKER_02
I think it s about recognizing the difference between the fantasy of being with that person and what it s actually going to be like, which is what you re describing, which is, and maybe they never cheat, but you ll be aware of the amount of temptation and even that can drive you crazy, right?
4
SPEAKER_02
And so do you want to be, or can you tolerate that?
4
SPEAKER_00
This is a pretty common pattern I ve also observed is like two people have been together for a long time.
4
SPEAKER_00
One of them gets in great shape out of nowhere and they re not getting validated or the partner is not very excited about it because it s old fucking news.
4
SPEAKER_00
So then they always, they have, they ve worked so hard.
4
SPEAKER_00
They wanted that validation.
4
SPEAKER_00
They re not getting it.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then they turn.
4
SPEAKER_00
I ve seen that with wives.
4
SPEAKER_00
I ve seen it with husbands.
4
SPEAKER_00
That also happens.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s also them using their body as a big band-aid for whatever misconnection is happening between the two people.
4
SPEAKER_01
Expecting your partner to now like you more because your body s changed is not gonna work.
4
SPEAKER_00
But it works at the beginning, that s why it s misleading.
4
SPEAKER_00
At the beginning...
4
SPEAKER_00
People do have a body type they re in search of, and when they get it, they re super horny and excited for it, but then it just turns into white noise.
4
SPEAKER_02
You adjust.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s not novel, and it s, you know it s yours, and all these different things that are bouncing around.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
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or they don t have it, and then you have to go to a different place.
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4
SPEAKER_01
We never talked about the hacks.
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, we put the clothes in the bags.
4
SPEAKER_01
You put them away for a month.
4
SPEAKER_01
No, we did, okay.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then, friend.
4
SPEAKER_01
Maybe I ll start a business, a biz.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I love that.
4
SPEAKER_00
I apologize if it felt like I hijacked that.
4
SPEAKER_00
No, not at all.
4
SPEAKER_01
Not at all, not at all.
4
SPEAKER_01
We really were done with closet clean out.
4
SPEAKER_00
Was that a question?
4
SPEAKER_01
No, we just started talking about it.
4
SPEAKER_01
Cause Liz was wearing one of my sweaters.
4
SPEAKER_01
That resulted from the closet clean out, but then I forget.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh yeah, I was commenting on Liz s highlighter.
4
SPEAKER_01
She has a highlighter on.
4
SPEAKER_01
She has a new skin product on her face, a highlighter.
4
SPEAKER_00
And you like the results?
4
SPEAKER_01
I think it looks really nice.
4
SPEAKER_01
Thanks.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I wanted to talk, I did, we ll save this for next week, because, I mean, unless you want to contribute to this, our top five favorite beauty products.
4
SPEAKER_00
Ooh.
4
SPEAKER_00
I have one.
4
SPEAKER_01
I know, do you want to say?
4
SPEAKER_00
No, I ve bogarted a lot.
4
SPEAKER_01
No, I mean, why don t, we ll talk about ours next week.
4
SPEAKER_00
Vicky Becky s Tinted Moisturizer.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you love it.
4
SPEAKER_01
With the Augustina Spader.
4
SPEAKER_01
Good job.
4
SPEAKER_01
I know.
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t know any of those.
4
SPEAKER_00
They have a collab.
4
SPEAKER_00
That sounded like almost gynecological.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, Augustinus.
4
SPEAKER_00
Did I hear Spady in there?
4
SPEAKER_01
Augustinus Bader.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I love the tinted moisturizer and I panic.
4
SPEAKER_00
They re often out of it because it s so good.
4
SPEAKER_01
You gotta stock up.
4
SPEAKER_01
All right, so next week, you think about your five.
4
SPEAKER_01
I have to think about my five too because I don t know what I would.
4
SPEAKER_00
I also like crust 3D white a lot for my teeth.
4
SPEAKER_02
The strips or the toothpaste?
4
SPEAKER_00
The toothpaste, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
Oh, well, I feel like they re all the same, but they re not to you.
4
SPEAKER_00
In my mind.
4
SPEAKER_02
They are not all the same.
4
SPEAKER_02
No?
4
SPEAKER_00
You ve stumbled into an old wound from when I got home.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh, God.
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, no, just an old loyalty, which is, because I use Arm & Hammer peroxy care.
4
SPEAKER_01
And if I use anything else, my mouth falls off.
4
SPEAKER_01
I ve seen it happen.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you ve seen my mouth on the floor.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, on the floor a few times.
4
SPEAKER_01
No, really.
4
SPEAKER_01
I get these like weird, like in my mouth, the inside of my mouth like peels.
4
SPEAKER_01
No way.
4
SPEAKER_01
You get like canker sores?
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, I do get mouth ulcers if I don t use the Proxy Care, but also the skin like peels within my mouth.
4
SPEAKER_02
I have that all the time.
4
SPEAKER_02
Maybe I should switch to your technique.
4
SPEAKER_02
Proxy Care.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s really good.
4
SPEAKER_02
I just thought I just ate a lot of hot sauce but maybe I m using the wrong toothpaste.
4
SPEAKER_02
Do you get mouth ulcers?
4
SPEAKER_02
All the time.
4
SPEAKER_01
You do?
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
I m always playing around with it.
4
SPEAKER_02
Then you should try it.
4
SPEAKER_00
But that s more anxiety driven?
4
SPEAKER_01
That s what I thought because I play with them and then they grow.
4
SPEAKER_01
I mean my dad introduced it to me because he has mouth ulcers.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then it fixed his.
4
SPEAKER_01
He gave it to me fixed.
4
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s a challenge.
4
SPEAKER_00
Praise be to him.
4
SPEAKER_00
We re all living in his sim.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yes, sir.
4
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
4
SPEAKER_01
If you re not going to listen to him... The architect.
4
SPEAKER_01
I have never smelt anything on my dad.
4
SPEAKER_01
Ever.
4
SPEAKER_01
I ve never smelt breath on him.
4
SPEAKER_01
I ve never smelt BO.
4
SPEAKER_01
He doesn t have a smell.
4
SPEAKER_00
Proof of his simness.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m grateful for it.
4
SPEAKER_00
He s definitely an avatar.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, there s no way, because dads always have a smell.
4
SPEAKER_02
Does your dad have a smell?
4
SPEAKER_01
Of course.
4
SPEAKER_01
Really?
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
I love it.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s your dad s smell.
4
SPEAKER_02
Did your dad have a smell?
4
SPEAKER_00
Fucking obsession by Calvin Klein.
4
SPEAKER_00
He must have put three, four ounces on a day.
4
SPEAKER_01
But I mean, did he have like a fair amount?
4
SPEAKER_00
You could never know.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, you couldn t have gotten through that force field.
4
SPEAKER_00
What about his breath?
4
SPEAKER_00
He had really bad breath.
4
SPEAKER_00
He drank six, seven pots of coffee a day, smoked cigarettes.
4
SPEAKER_00
It was bad.
4
SPEAKER_00
It was rough.
4
SPEAKER_00
My brother and I always complained about it.
4
SPEAKER_00
And you know the story.
4
SPEAKER_00
I was at the Teen Choice Awards and it was quite an eventful thing from beginning to end because I brought him and he didn t know what a seat filler was.
4
SPEAKER_00
And if you re in the audience, you don t know what a seat filler is.
4
SPEAKER_00
When you look at the audience of an award show, every seat is full, but clearly many of those seats are of the people that are backstage.
4
SPEAKER_00
So they have people on hand to sit in those seats while the performers are backstage so that there s not empty seats in the audience.
4
SPEAKER_00
I should have explained that to my father.
4
SPEAKER_00
So I get on stage, I m in the middle of reading the teleprompter and I can see my father s on his feet yelling at a woman who has stolen my seat.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
4
SPEAKER_00
The textbook senior.
4
SPEAKER_02
Oh no.
4
SPEAKER_00
I wanna get the fuck out of there.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so I come off stage and I immediately grab him and I just wanna leave there.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I m walking across the parking lot, I think you remember this.
4
SPEAKER_00
And lo and behold, we bump into Jessica Alba, who is at peak Jessica Alba powers.
4
SPEAKER_00
This is like 2006.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I had been on an episode of Punk d with her.
4
SPEAKER_00
What he doesn t even know is that I ve hung out with her a few times.
4
SPEAKER_00
He makes his way immediately over to her and he approaches her and starts talking into her nose like it s the microphone at a bank.
4
SPEAKER_00
Dax talks about you so much.
4
SPEAKER_00
He thinks you re great.
4
SPEAKER_00
You should exchange numbers.
4
SPEAKER_00
He s trying to wingman me with this starlet.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I am fucking elevating out of my body going like, well, this is about as bad as it could go.
4
SPEAKER_00
He s talking into her nose holes.
4
SPEAKER_01
And he doesn t have great breath.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s a euphemism.
4
SPEAKER_01
What did she do?
4
SPEAKER_01
She was kind about it.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, is that rough for me?
4
SPEAKER_00
I forgive you and I love you, Dave.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, it s funny.
4
SPEAKER_01
You don t talk about being embarrassed by him much, but I talk about being embarrassed by my parents.
4
SPEAKER_01
We talk about it and they re relatively not embarrassing to be fair to them.
4
SPEAKER_00
And in fairness, I often was not embarrassed by him.
4
SPEAKER_00
He always drove cool cars.
4
SPEAKER_00
He had pretty good style.
4
SPEAKER_00
But on a hot mic with that breath, that was rough.
4
SPEAKER_00
With, obviously, an actor that I am very attracted to.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_02
But everyone s parents are embarrassing.
5
SPEAKER_01
We all like shift a little bit when we re interacting with other people s parents too.
5
SPEAKER_01
You become a little more accepting.
5
SPEAKER_00
I ll also say that for most of my life, my mother was additive for me.
5
SPEAKER_00
I thought like, oh good, she s here.
5
SPEAKER_00
They re going to like me more because she s such a catch and so wonderful.
5
SPEAKER_00
This is his only feather in my cap.
5
SPEAKER_00
So she would start talking about like anal sex or something.
5
SPEAKER_00
Recoil a little bit.
5
SPEAKER_02
Oh boy, oh boy.
5
SPEAKER_02
All right, let s do some questions.
5
SPEAKER_02
I want to see if there s any that are specifically like... Are there any card questions in there?
5
SPEAKER_02
I want ones that you ll connect with, Dax, but that won t get you in trouble.
5
SPEAKER_00
Ooh, that is narrowing.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s a trifecta.
5
SPEAKER_02
I can t seem to find... I ll just listen.
5
SPEAKER_00
I ll listen to you.
5
SPEAKER_02
No, no, no, no, no.
5
SPEAKER_02
Okay, we re going to try it.
5
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
5
SPEAKER_02
My boyfriend thinks the blame for S-A, sexual assault, is 50-50 between the girl and the guy.
5
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Lauren.
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My boyfriend and I were recently watching the news when we heard about a story of a girl s parents suing a basketball player for sexually assaulting their daughter at a party.
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She was intoxicated and couldn t consent.
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SPEAKER_02
When we heard the story, we immediately had different reactions.
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He shook his head and said she probably touched him, led him on, voluntarily went to the room with him, et cetera.
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And if we ever have a daughter, he wants to teach her not to get into these situations.
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SPEAKER_02
Now, to be fair, we don t know the details of what happened in this story, but I was completely taken aback that he focused entirely on the girl s actions instead of the athlete s actions.
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SPEAKER_02
I said I d rather focus on teaching our son that if the girl doesn t say yes, she s saying no.
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He basically thinks the guy shouldn t have had sex with the girl, but the girl shouldn t have let him on, so they re both at fault.
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SPEAKER_02
I ve been with him for almost two years, but is this a big red flag that I missed, or am I overreacting on one story we don t actually know the details of?
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SPEAKER_02
I want to hear Liz s opinions first.
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SPEAKER_01
I mean, I don t know the details of this story, but I find the details less important than where he went to with what information was available.
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SPEAKER_01
It doesn t matter what actually is true about the story.
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SPEAKER_01
Yes.
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SPEAKER_01
If there was information about her leading him on, whatever that means, that would be, I guess, different.
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But the fact that it s a pretty neutral story and that that s his inclination is to go into why she s responsible.
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SPEAKER_01
I mean, I would feel uneasy and have a lot more questions about why her behavior is being scrutinized and like his isn t.
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SPEAKER_01
And also, the fact that the parents are suing, I m assuming she s not 18.
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SPEAKER_01
You can t sue— On behalf of— On behalf of—unless she s under conservatorship.
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SPEAKER_01
My parents can t sue someone for doing something to me.
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SPEAKER_01
So, I m assuming she s under 18 when it happened, so that s even more kind of clear that there s a power dynamic.
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SPEAKER_01
If she was a minor when it happened on top of it, if he was an adult, then to me, it just—
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SPEAKER_01
feels pretty clear-cut.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah, we can spend time trying to dissect, like, the details which we don t have and they don t maybe even have.
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SPEAKER_02
If there can be a conversation of, okay, so let me tell you about why this makes me feel uneasy, why our conversation makes me feel uneasy, and you explain it, and then there s some understanding, then maybe there, like, you know, you can move forward with some understanding of one another, but if it s
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SPEAKER_02
Very stubborn and it s the woman is to blame and that s it.
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SPEAKER_01
That would be hard for me as well.
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SPEAKER_01
Maybe his friend was an athlete and was accused of sexual assault and it was, you know, maybe there was a case of there s like a personal thing for him and that s why he s leaning this way.
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SPEAKER_01
I would have more questions.
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SPEAKER_01
More conversations about it.
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SPEAKER_01
What do you think?
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SPEAKER_00
I think the first thing that s already interesting is the stuff that you guys honed in on the stuff that I honed in.
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SPEAKER_00
And so I think there s a bunch of information here and we re all kind of circling the things that are concerning to ourselves.
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SPEAKER_00
And I doubt we re even talking about the same details of the story.
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SPEAKER_00
When I hear that, what I can relate to him on is the sentence I heard that scares the fuck out of me is she couldn t consent because she was intoxicated.
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SPEAKER_00
It doesn t say that she was passed out.
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SPEAKER_00
It doesn t say that she said no.
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SPEAKER_00
It says she can t consent because she s intoxicated.
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SPEAKER_00
That s an incredibly dangerous realm.
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SPEAKER_00
So you say anyone that s intoxicated, you can t have sex with because they are incapable of consenting.
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SPEAKER_00
That s a pretty crazy world to enter into when all young people fuck when they re drunk.
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SPEAKER_00
If you re considering that you should never have sex when both people are drunk, cause you might wake up in the morning and go to jail.
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SPEAKER_00
That s a very scary proposition.
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SPEAKER_00
What I totally reject from his point of view is like, she led him on that stuff to me is repugnant and you can want to blow each other and eat each other out and not want to fuck.
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SPEAKER_00
So I don t, I m not with him on that.
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SPEAKER_02
I get that, but we don t know any of that.
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SPEAKER_02
And I don t want to include it because he didn t say that.
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SPEAKER_02
We re talking about this specific girl s situation.
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SPEAKER_02
I don t want to make it like, we have to go based on what he s saying.
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SPEAKER_00
I was only pointing out how, when I hear the story, the things that go through my mind that probably won t go through your minds, because naturally I, of course, imagine myself as the male in this situation.
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SPEAKER_00
And you guys are going to imagine yourself as the females in this situation.
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SPEAKER_00
And then once I do that, I m already considering all that from a very specific point of view.
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SPEAKER_00
And I think it s very natural for us three to do it that way.
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SPEAKER_00
And so what I m saying is, even if the three of us had this conversation, we hear the same news thing, we re thinking about three different aspects of the same story, and then from two different points of view of the same story.
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SPEAKER_00
So I can see where tension would arise.
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SPEAKER_00
I would caution anyone
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from writing someone else off until we really explored what the real fear is going on.
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If his belief is girls aren t allowed to lead guys on and say no, then he s a piece of shit and you should get rid of him.
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SPEAKER_00
If that s what we found out through deeper exploration, but if he s afraid, if he s going through his mind of every time he had sex with someone that was drunk who said yes, and he s actually thinking, oh my God, this is terrifying.
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SPEAKER_02
I agree.
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I think more conversation is definitely what is needed here.
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And her leading with her own vulnerability of, I feel scared right now.
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Based on this conversation, I want to tell you why.
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SPEAKER_02
Can we talk about this and see how he meets you?
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SPEAKER_02
I mean, unfortunately, we don t know what he s going to say.
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SPEAKER_02
So, but I don t, yeah, I don t think you have to hear this and then think, oh fuck, I gotta leave right now.
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SPEAKER_02
But I do think it s worth more exploration because it could be that your value systems are not aligned at all.
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SPEAKER_02
You do need to know that before you have children with a person.
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SPEAKER_01
It s unfortunate because sexual assault and rape is like, the vast majority of people who commit these crimes never spend a minute in jail.
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It s the least prosecuted crime.
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SPEAKER_01
And that means that women are coming from, and men too, obviously, but women are desperately affected.
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SPEAKER_01
If a woman speaks and she says she s been assaulted, we just immediately believe her and we immediately, especially if it gets to a place of going to court, we want there to be justice.
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SPEAKER_01
But it means that there s not a lot of room for nuance, which is kind of what you re speaking about, which is if most people in their 20s are having sex when they re drunk, how do you, you know... How do we deal with that?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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Exactly.
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SPEAKER_00
And by the way, listening to you, you shined a light on something that didn t even cross my mind.
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SPEAKER_00
So I heard people at a college party.
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SPEAKER_00
I m assuming she s over 18.
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SPEAKER_00
It didn t even occur to me like, yeah, that is weird.
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SPEAKER_00
The parents are suing.
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SPEAKER_00
You pointed that out and like, oh yeah, that s helpful.
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SPEAKER_00
That didn t cross my mind.
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SPEAKER_00
I was focused on this drinking part of the whole thing.
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SPEAKER_02
But he could be underage too, right?
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SPEAKER_02
Or can you not sue someone underage?
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SPEAKER_00
Well, if it s assault, you can get sued regardless.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_02
So they both could be underage.
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And we don t know.
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SPEAKER_00
You know, another element of the conversation that as someone who has kids and specifically has daughters, and we ve had these conversations, you are working with a very challenging situation, which is you should have the right, just as a man does,
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to get blackout drunk and pass out in the middle of a party.
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We shouldn t live in a world that it s dangerous for you to do that.
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SPEAKER_00
That is how it should be.
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SPEAKER_00
Then we look at the data of how many people are date raped when they re blacked out and incoherent.
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SPEAKER_00
So we go, and that s how it is.
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SPEAKER_00
And so am I preparing my children for how it should be or how it is?
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SPEAKER_02
This is the biggest fight my dad and I have ever gotten into.
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SPEAKER_00
Really?
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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And I agree.
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And Liz and I have had some similar differing opinions on this, not in a party or rape, but even just walking down the street as a woman at night.
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Liz is like, no, we should be able to do that.
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And I say, we should be.
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SPEAKER_02
And the chances of something happening to us in that environment is higher than it is for a man.
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So I m not willing to just be like, it should be like this, so I m going to throw myself in this situation.
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I adjust.
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Even though that sucks and is wrong, it s preferred for me to adjust than to live with the outcome of something bad happening.
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SPEAKER_00
So, yeah, my advice to my daughters will be I don t recommend you get blackout drunk at a frat party.
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SPEAKER_00
That is going to be my advice.
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SPEAKER_00
I don t think that s fair.
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SPEAKER_00
I wish that weren t the case, but that will be my advice.
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SPEAKER_00
If you re going to get annihilated drunk, you should be with friends you trust.
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I think it s fine to say, if you re going to get drunk, you need to have people around who you feel safe with.
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SPEAKER_02
And this is why, and it s not just like, this is on you, but she s like, this is the reality of the world.
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SPEAKER_02
It s not fair.
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And I also agree with her because people always do this.
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SPEAKER_02
They position it as an either or like when people say, I want to tell my daughter this,
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The response is, well, why wouldn t you tell the son?
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SPEAKER_02
Tell both, tell everyone.
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SPEAKER_00
I happen to have girls and we re talking about girls, but yeah, bad boys.
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SPEAKER_02
I m not talking about you specifically, I m saying in general.
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a great point because I think we re hopefully going to be moving to a situation where we should be warning our boys more not to be drunk alone because something dangerous could happen.
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SPEAKER_00
I think we should be preventing our sons from assaulting people.
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SPEAKER_00
I think we should be preventing our sons from ending up in a situation where they could be misidentified as assaulting someone.
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SPEAKER_00
We do put such an emphasis on telling girls not to drink too much, but boys also, there s a danger to being blackout drunk at a party and engaging again in a situation where maybe he didn t assault her, but he can t remember.
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SPEAKER_00
And so then you re in a vulnerable position and we re just sounding like party poopers, like don t drink, but we should be warning everyone.
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SPEAKER_02
Malcolm Gladwell did it in a much more articulate and measured way two books ago.
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SPEAKER_02
There s a whole chapter about what happens to your brain at this many drinks.
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SPEAKER_02
If you re a male, this many drinks, if you re a female, your memory stops.
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SPEAKER_02
And so when you have two people who have a prediction of how they would have behaved in a situation, let s presume that the guy would say, well, I wouldn t assault anyone.
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SPEAKER_02
And then the girl saying, I wouldn t have slept with a stranger on the first date.
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SPEAKER_02
Neither people has actual memory of the situation.
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SPEAKER_02
It s just ripe for fucking disaster.
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SPEAKER_01
It is, yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
Minimally.
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SPEAKER_01
It s like prepping everyone for danger.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_02
We need a rule, it s like, no fucking after drink five, whatever.
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SPEAKER_02
We gotta establish a top baseline tolerance and then come up with some kind of actionable strategy where it s like, if you re having a night where you re gonna set a record and do 15 shots, go for it, but let s go into it knowing this isn t the night for that.
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SPEAKER_02
Cause you won t even know what s going on.
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SPEAKER_02
You ll have an assumption of what you would have done on both sides.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
I would just ask more questions.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_02
It seems like too little information and too few conversations to be determining the future of the relationship.
6
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
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SPEAKER_01
Is it okay to keep an intimate secret from a partner to protect their feelings?
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SPEAKER_01
Anonymous.
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SPEAKER_01
Is it okay to not tell your partner about sex toys?
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SPEAKER_01
My partner and I have been together for over seven years.
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SPEAKER_01
I love him very much, but I ve been finding myself much less attracted to him physically.
6
SPEAKER_01
Lately, we have struggled to take care of our bodies and, more importantly, our mental health, but I m trying hard and find a little time every day to do something for myself.
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SPEAKER_01
He seems to have given up on his health, mental and physical, and struggles with motivation.
6
SPEAKER_01
I support him as best as I can and suggest things we can do together to help, but he is very resistant.
6
SPEAKER_01
This has led to challenges with our physical intimacy as well, and my interest in sex with him has really taken a hit.
6
SPEAKER_01
I still want sexual satisfaction, but I am almost never in the mood to have it with him, and I ve been thinking about getting myself some solo toys, vibrators, et cetera.
6
SPEAKER_01
Part of the reason I want them is because they will help my libido, which will help our relationship.
6
SPEAKER_01
But I know that if I tell him about them, he will get very insecure about the relationship and his proficiency as a sexual partner.
6
SPEAKER_01
He has expressed in the past that this is a real trigger for him, and it may make his mental health worse.
6
SPEAKER_01
Am I worrying too much about it, and I should just tell him, or is it okay to hide this from him? 
6
SPEAKER_00
Wait, what s a trigger?
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SPEAKER_00
The fact that she would use sex toys?
6
SPEAKER_01
I guess.
6
SPEAKER_01
Oh.
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SPEAKER_01
He gets insecure.
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SPEAKER_02
I m not defending it, but what he might be hearing is like, he can accept she s not sexual, but to accept that she actually is quite sexual, just doesn t want it with him, could have whatever impact it has on him.
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SPEAKER_02
You must talk about this.
6
SPEAKER_02
These things don t get better through hiding sex toys.
6
SPEAKER_02
I think it must be talked about.
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SPEAKER_02
Most importantly, you should listen to our episode with Vanessa Morin.
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SPEAKER_01
Oh, yes.
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SPEAKER_02
Because the entire episode is about this exact question.
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SPEAKER_01
It is.
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SPEAKER_01
It s more of a bummer to me that she is understanding that he s not well mentally, which is like leading to all of this.
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SPEAKER_01
And he s not doing what he needs to do for himself.
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SPEAKER_01
I think this is very codependent, right?
6
SPEAKER_01
Like he s not doing what he can for himself.
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SPEAKER_01
So she s sort of trying to regulate him and also say, like, I should keep this from him because this might hurt him, but he s not helping himself.
6
SPEAKER_00
The both of you made really good points, and I think you have to discuss it because it ll just grow.
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SPEAKER_00
Now it s just sex toys, but then it ll still start.
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SPEAKER_01
So vibrator isn t going to help her attraction to him, unfortunately.
6
SPEAKER_00
That too.
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SPEAKER_00
And sometimes people have to, you know, we want to obviously be nice with everybody and, you know, everyone s mental health is more fragile than it s ever been.
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SPEAKER_00
But I think that people also need to be shook a little bit and also challenged and be held, it s not really accountable, but know the consequences of their inaction in terms of their mental health and just their health in general.
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SPEAKER_00
And in a way, her bringing this up could bring up consequences, being like, when you re not taking care of yourself, it affects me in this way.
6
SPEAKER_00
And now this is what I m seeking.
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SPEAKER_02
They should have had toys from the get go.
6
SPEAKER_00
That too.
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SPEAKER_00
It s funny to talk about sex stories as like outside of our marriage, you know, but you know, and sex stories, I think also can be incorporated and should be into their
6
SPEAKER_00
sex life, and maybe that s also a way to do it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Maybe him realizing the effect that it s having on her.
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SPEAKER_00
Like, we hide things for us.
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SPEAKER_00
She feels more comfortable probably not challenging him, and she doesn t know how that conversation is going to go.
6
SPEAKER_00
So I understand the anxiety around it, but actually being honest with him isn t just better for her, but it s probably better for him too in the long run.
6
SPEAKER_00
It might jolt him into action.
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SPEAKER_02
My first thought is just to say, like, it s always tempting to think it s your partner s problem.
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SPEAKER_02
And what I would just say from watching Orna and talking to Vanessa, like, it s 50-50 no matter how you want to dice that.
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SPEAKER_02
You guys are both playing a role.
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SPEAKER_02
So just acknowledging first and foremost, it s never one person s problem.
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SPEAKER_02
You guys are in a pattern together and you re dancing.
6
SPEAKER_02
And then there s also an optimistic...
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SPEAKER_02
way to look at this.
6
SPEAKER_02
So she s presuming the worst case scenario, which is likely.
6
SPEAKER_02
But another great scenario is like he may have written off that she s just not sexual and he has to live with it.
6
SPEAKER_02
And he might actually see by her getting toys, oh, she is sexual.
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SPEAKER_02
I m just not.
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SPEAKER_02
arising to the occasion or figuring out how to engage with her sexually.
6
SPEAKER_02
So in a weird way, it could be the most optimistic thing he could hear.
6
SPEAKER_02
He might find out, no, she is a sexual creature.
6
SPEAKER_02
So there could be a positive outcome of it.
6
SPEAKER_02
But I also think these problems just as tempting as they are to say one person let themselves go.
6
SPEAKER_02
They re just always 50-50, unfortunately.
6
SPEAKER_02
And then hopefully he ll address some things that have led to this.
6
SPEAKER_02
And then you guys will both together find your way out.
6
SPEAKER_01
I don t think this is a sex question.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s an attraction question, but attraction is mental.
6
SPEAKER_01
And she s saying, I m trying hard to find a little time every day to do something for myself.
6
SPEAKER_01
He s given up.
6
SPEAKER_01
I support him as best as I can.
6
SPEAKER_01
I suggest what we can do together to help, but he s very resistant.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s not attractive.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like, that s the truth.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like, forcing someone to love themselves is not attractive, and I think that s at the root of it.
6
SPEAKER_02
I totally agree with you.
6
SPEAKER_02
If the person doesn t think they re attractive, how can, but she could be playing a role just as he s playing a role.
6
SPEAKER_02
Like who knows if some of her behavior set off his and now his is setting off hers.
6
SPEAKER_02
And it s all just falling into the vortex that these things seem to do.
6
SPEAKER_02
I just would be hesitant to say that one person s done something.
6
SPEAKER_02
I think generally they re inextricably linked and there s all this action and reaction.
6
SPEAKER_02
And so I don t think blaming is going to get anyone.
6
SPEAKER_02
anywhere.
6
SPEAKER_02
But I agree with you.
6
SPEAKER_02
If someone s not, if someone s thrown in the towel in their life, you can t force yourself to be attracted to that version of them.
6
SPEAKER_01
you know, if we re taking this at face value, which we do, she said she was in the same boat, right?
6
SPEAKER_01
She was like, we both let ourselves go and I m doing baby steps to get myself out of it.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s really hard when you re trying to pull yourself out of a hole and then your partner is not.
6
SPEAKER_01
Good sex is going to be impossible in that situation.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m not blaming him.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m just saying,
6
SPEAKER_01
Everyone needs to like get themselves out of the ocean.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like, you know, they re drowning and like, they need to come out before the sex piece even gets addressed.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I agree.
6
SPEAKER_02
I think you hit the nail on the head earlier, which is just like, she s looking very down river.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_02
Which is like, this is the last piece of it.
6
SPEAKER_02
There s so much stuff way up river that may impact that without any work.
6
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
6
SPEAKER_02
Sex, let s just say, and this is from Vanessa, sex is our most vulnerable topic.
6
SPEAKER_02
It s the thing we re scaredest about.
6
SPEAKER_02
So that might even be the hardest one to tackle.
6
SPEAKER_02
Whereas I want to build and grow and get bigger and bigger and better and better with you.
6
SPEAKER_02
That s less, in my opinion, threatening and scary than
6
SPEAKER_02
I don t want to fuck you.
6
SPEAKER_02
That s kind of like, that s the A-bomb.
6
SPEAKER_02
I think we could work on some other stuff before we even tackle that.
6
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
6
SPEAKER_01
Because again, it might not even be right.
6
SPEAKER_01
You might be physically attracted to him again once he feels better about himself.
6
SPEAKER_01
But then it is tricky because if he just, if he won t, that might no longer be a relationship that s fulfilling.
6
SPEAKER_01
Well, thank you for joining us, Dax.
6
SPEAKER_01
That was awesome.
6
SPEAKER_01
We will be back next week.
6
SPEAKER_01
We re getting closer and closer to our hot girl hobby reveal.
6
SPEAKER_00
I got singing lessons from Hannah and there was a lot wrong with me.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s so cool that you re doing that.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
My Cheers Ricochet coming February.
6
SPEAKER_01
Dropping.
6
SPEAKER_01
And my Seize the Day essay.
6
SPEAKER_02
Oh, that s what you re doing Carpe Diem?
6
SPEAKER_01
So Liz had to write the title of the essay that I will be writing and she said, seize the day.
6
SPEAKER_01
I haven t started.
6
SPEAKER_01
Great.
6
SPEAKER_02
You haven t sozed the day.
6
SPEAKER_01
I haven t.
6
SPEAKER_01
All right.
6
SPEAKER_01
We ll see you next week.
6
SPEAKER_01
Love you guys.
6
SPEAKER_00
Bye.