0
SPEAKER_10
 Bring a little optimism into your life with The Bright Side, a new kind of daily podcast from Hello Sunshine, hosted by me, Danielle Robay.
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SPEAKER_10
And me, Simone Boyce.
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SPEAKER_09
Every weekday, we're bringing you conversations about culture, the latest trends, inspiration, and so much more.
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SPEAKER_01
I am so excited about this podcast, The Bright Side.
0
SPEAKER_01
You guys are giving people a chance to shine a light on their lives, shine a light on a little advice that they want to share.
0
SPEAKER_00
 Listen to The Bright Side on America's number one podcast network, iHeart.
0
SPEAKER_00
Open your free iHeart app and search The Bright Side.
0
SPEAKER_04
Hey, everyone, this is Molly and Matt, and we're the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart Podcasts.
0
SPEAKER_06
It's a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting.
0
SPEAKER_04
 like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone, and so much more.
0
SPEAKER_06
Let's learn about all of it and then some.
0
SPEAKER_06
Listen to Grown Up Stuff How to Adult on America's number one podcast network, iHeart.
0
SPEAKER_06
Open your free iHeart app and search Grown Up Stuff.
0
SPEAKER_03
 A new season of Bridgerton is here.
0
SPEAKER_03
And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
0
SPEAKER_03
I'm your host, Gabby Collins.
0
SPEAKER_03
And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
0
SPEAKER_03
Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
0
SPEAKER_03
Then fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
0
SPEAKER_03
Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday.
0
SPEAKER_02
 I honestly think I maybe have a different view of failure than other people do.
0
SPEAKER_02
I think that it's one of the things people are most terrified of in the world, especially in my community.
0
SPEAKER_02
So many women in my community, petrified of failing.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I always think like, if you can understand that 99% of the time, you're not afraid of failing, you're afraid of other people seeing you fail.
0
SPEAKER_07
 Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world.
0
SPEAKER_07
Thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow.
0
SPEAKER_07
Now this is a guest, a friend that I've been talking to, DMing, messaging with,
0
SPEAKER_07
 for a bunch of years now.
0
SPEAKER_07
And I've been waiting for this moment to actually sit with her in person.
0
SPEAKER_07
I'm a huge fan.
0
SPEAKER_07
I've admired her work for a long, long time.
0
SPEAKER_07
Wanted to be in the same room.
0
SPEAKER_07
We've actually never crossed paths in person, but we're finally here in the studio.
0
SPEAKER_07
I'm speaking about none other than three times New York Times bestselling author and the founder of The Hollis Company, Rachel Hollis.
0
SPEAKER_07
Rachel, thank you for doing this.
0
SPEAKER_02
Oh my gosh.
0
SPEAKER_02
I'm so tickled.
0
SPEAKER_02
I'm tickled just to get to hang out with you.
0
SPEAKER_02
And the fact that there are cameras is also great.
0
SPEAKER_07
 I know, I've genuinely been looking forward to this and you were kind enough to have me on your podcast last year.
0
SPEAKER_07
Yeah, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_07
We had to do it digitally.
0
SPEAKER_11
Yeah, I know.
0
SPEAKER_07
But it was still wonderful.
0
SPEAKER_07
I felt like we really got along and connected.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_07
Even now, you've just walked in and I'm already like, I feel like I already know you, like genuinely.
0
SPEAKER_02
A hundred percent, a hundred percent.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I anticipated that, so.
0
SPEAKER_07
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_02
No, this is wild.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, same.
0
SPEAKER_02
It's honestly wild too, just because with everything that's happened in the last year, year and a half, maybe at this point,
0
SPEAKER_02
 We haven't, I just haven't had the chance to connect with colleagues or with people who sort of have the same mindset or kind of striving for the same thing.
0
SPEAKER_02
So it's always a treat to get to connect in real life.
0
SPEAKER_07
Yeah, definitely.
0
SPEAKER_07
I'm excited to talk to you offline as well after this and more and as much as we can.
0
SPEAKER_07
But we literally just discovered something, which has to be where we start.
0
SPEAKER_07
So Rachel literally just said to me, Jay, I need to tell you what I was doing yesterday.
0
SPEAKER_07
And I was just like, I did the same thing.
0
SPEAKER_07
So why don't you,
0
SPEAKER_02
 So there, um, Dr. Daniel Amen is someone I've admired his work forever.
0
SPEAKER_02
I've read his books and I always wanted, he's a doctor of the brain.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, he's a clinical neuroscientist.
0
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
0
SPEAKER_02
I knew you knew the words.
0
SPEAKER_07
 He's been a guest on the show twice.
0
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
0
SPEAKER_07
So if anyone, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_02
Love his work.
0
SPEAKER_02
But I had always wanted to have it done.
0
SPEAKER_02
And my friend Trent, do you know Trent Shelton?
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I know Trent, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
0
SPEAKER_02
So Trent's a really dear friend and we were texting a few- He got scanned recently because I saw him when he was here.
0
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, so he was here, right.
0
SPEAKER_02
So he was here and he was like, oh, I'm in California, I'm having some scans done.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I was like,
0
SPEAKER_02
 By who?
0
SPEAKER_02
Because I feel like if you're sort of in this industry, there's one person you go to.
0
SPEAKER_02
And so he connected me and I nerded out when I got to talk to Dr. Amen for the first time, just because in my life, what I want most is to understand myself emotionally, physically, why do I do the things that I do and how can I become a better version of me?
0
SPEAKER_02
And I just feel like the more information I have for that, the better.
0
SPEAKER_02
 Also, a ton of mental illness in my family.
0
SPEAKER_02
My older brother was schizophrenic and took his own life.
0
SPEAKER_02
And there's just depression and anxiety and so many things that run in this.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I just want to understand if there are things that I can be doing to better live each day.
0
SPEAKER_02
And so I felt like my favorite book by Dr. Amen is
0
SPEAKER_02
 I think it's the end of mental illness, which I just found fascinating.
0
SPEAKER_02
Essentially the idea that the brain is the part of the body that like if you broke your arm, they would take an x-ray of your arm before they did anything to try and make it better.
0
SPEAKER_02
But if you go to a doctor and you're struggling with mental illness or emotional issues, they don't look at your brain, they just start prescribing things.
0
SPEAKER_02
 I'm a huge proponent of taking the medicine that you need and getting the help that you need.
0
SPEAKER_02
But I just, I know in my brother's case, there was a lot of medicating and it was a different time and my parents really didn't have the information they needed to help him.
0
SPEAKER_02
But I just think he would have been better served by more info.
0
SPEAKER_02
So that was why.
0
SPEAKER_02
So I went yesterday and got brain scans and found out that you and your wife were there like 30 minutes.
0
SPEAKER_02
You were there two hours before us.
0
SPEAKER_02
Ryan's so crazy.
0
SPEAKER_07
 That's actually crazy, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_07
So our reason was, I mean that's a beautiful reason to go and you know I'm sure there's so many people listening and watching right now going, oh my gosh, like I need to know more about this.
0
SPEAKER_07
And we went because I've realized that we, like what you were saying, we just know very little about ourselves.
0
SPEAKER_07
 And I'm just always like, I want to learn.
0
SPEAKER_07
I want to be curious.
0
SPEAKER_07
And I really struggle with not knowing that I could be acting in a certain way or behaving in a certain way because of something that I have no clue about, but actually I could be doing something about.
0
SPEAKER_07
And I think the other thing that changed for me for a while was we were always told to live a long life.
0
SPEAKER_07
And that was a big thing when you were growing up.
0
SPEAKER_07
 I don't know, at least in my culture, it was very much like you get blessed to live a long life.
0
SPEAKER_07
And I was thinking, but actually I want to live a healthy life.
0
SPEAKER_07
The length is going to be up to God and whatever that needs to be, but the health is up to me of how conscious I am about how I live.
0
SPEAKER_07
And so I think for me going to get my brain scanned, and I went with my wife yesterday, we were going there for that reason.
0
SPEAKER_07
What are we doing wrong?
0
SPEAKER_07
What are we doing that's harmful?
0
SPEAKER_07
What are we doing that's good for us?
0
SPEAKER_07
But I love your reason.
0
SPEAKER_07
 I think for so many people who have had people in their life who've struggled with depression or mental illness and not known where to start.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_07
And we don't discover anything yet, so we don't have anything to share.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, we don't know.
0
SPEAKER_02
Sorry, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_02
We don't know.
0
SPEAKER_02
I know, we'll do a follow-up.
0
SPEAKER_02
We just set you all up.
0
SPEAKER_02
Right, right.
0
SPEAKER_07
Rachel and I have nothing to share.
0
SPEAKER_02
I know.
0
SPEAKER_02
Well, but I do think, you know, one of my big fears is being so intentional about trying to live in a healthy way.
0
SPEAKER_02
 But there are times in my life where I found, let's say I'm taking a supplement that I think is really good for me, and then I'll find, like, something will start to feel off or go wrong, and then I'll go have blood work done and find, like, oh, well, you know, you're anemic, and I'm anemic, and I have low blood pressure.
0
SPEAKER_02
So, like, you actually shouldn't be taking that supplement because it's going to make this thing worse.
0
SPEAKER_02
So I hate the idea that without information,
0
SPEAKER_02
 we actually do things that are harmful that we think are helpful.
0
SPEAKER_02
Because I really just feel like that it's so discouraging when you're making choices that you think, like, maybe they're choices that are even hard for you to make, or you're eating in a certain way, and you're trying to, like, take care of yourself, and then you find out, like, oh, it was actually the opposite.
0
SPEAKER_02
That's so discouraging.
0
SPEAKER_02
So I just, I am a nerd for information.
0
SPEAKER_07
Do you have an example of something like that that you've done?
0
SPEAKER_07
Because I think that's...
0
SPEAKER_07
 I can relate, and I'm trying to think about our audience.
0
SPEAKER_07
Yeah, what's something that you thought was healthy?
0
SPEAKER_02
So I grew up, what's popping into my head is I grew up in a family, my family's Southern on both sides, Oklahoma and Arkansas, and really not conscious of health in any way.
0
SPEAKER_02
 not mental, not emotional, not nutritional, nothing.
0
SPEAKER_02
So I grew up in a family that deep fried everything, covered it in gravy, covered it in cheese, right?
0
SPEAKER_02
It was delicious.
0
SPEAKER_10
 That's where The Bright Side comes in, a new daily podcast from Hello Sunshine that's bringing you a daily dose of joy.
0
SPEAKER_10
I'm Danielle Robay.
0
SPEAKER_09
And I'm Simone Boyce.
0
SPEAKER_09
Listen, both Danielle and I are reporters.
0
SPEAKER_09
We've covered the news and we know the world can feel heavy.
0
SPEAKER_09
But The Bright Side podcast is a space to have a little fun, to learn something new and get into some friendly debates.
0
SPEAKER_10
 That's right.
0
SPEAKER_10
Join us five days a week to see how life can look from the bright side.
0
SPEAKER_10
We'll hear from celebrities, authors, experts and listeners like you.
0
SPEAKER_09
Whether it's relationships, friend advice or figuring out how to navigate life's transitions, we'll talk through it all together.
0
SPEAKER_10
Listen to The Bright Side from Hello Sunshine every weekday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
0
SPEAKER_08
 When the Taliban banned music in Afghanistan, millions were plunged into silence.
0
SPEAKER_08
Radios were smashed.
0
SPEAKER_08
Cassettes burned.
0
SPEAKER_08
You could be beaten or jailed or killed for breaking the rules.
0
SPEAKER_08
And yet, Afghans did it anyway.
0
SPEAKER_08
This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol.
0
SPEAKER_08
 The danger they endured.
0
SPEAKER_00
They said my head should be cut off.
0
SPEAKER_08
The joy they brought to the nation.
0
SPEAKER_03
You're free completely.
0
SPEAKER_03
No one is there to destroy you.
0
SPEAKER_08
I'm John Legend.
0
SPEAKER_08
Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
0
SPEAKER_04
 Hey everyone, this is Molly and Matt and we're the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart Podcasts.
0
SPEAKER_06
It's a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting.
0
SPEAKER_04
Like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone, and so much more.
0
SPEAKER_06
 We're back with season two of the podcast, which means more opportunities to glow up and become a more responsible and better adult, one life lesson at a time.
0
SPEAKER_04
And let me just tell you, this show is just as much for us as it is for you.
0
SPEAKER_04
So let's figure this stuff out together.
0
SPEAKER_04
This season, we're going to talk about whether or not we're financially and emotionally ready for dog ownership.
0
SPEAKER_06
 We're going to figure out the benefits of a high yield savings account.
0
SPEAKER_04
And what exactly are the duties of being a member of the wedding party?
0
SPEAKER_06
All that plus so much more.
0
SPEAKER_04
Let's learn about all of it and then some.
0
SPEAKER_04
Listen to Grown Up Stuff How to Adult on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
0
SPEAKER_02
 sort of the idea in my family growing up was if you made it at home, it was healthy.
0
SPEAKER_02
It was if you ate out, that was unhealthy.
0
SPEAKER_02
And so just no awareness around nutrition.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I remember very specifically after I had my first son, he's 14 and a half, so it's been a while, but I had gained a lot of weight in my pregnancy because I just had no idea how to take care of myself or what to eat.
0
SPEAKER_02
 And I just want to say for the record, because this is very important to me, I hate how often weight is used to control women and make them feel shame.
0
SPEAKER_02
And so this is not a conversation about weight.
0
SPEAKER_02
I don't care what you weigh.
0
SPEAKER_02
Live your life.
0
SPEAKER_02
You're beautiful.
0
SPEAKER_02
But for me, I'm 5'2", and I was 52 pounds heavier than I am today.
0
SPEAKER_02
And at 5'2", that's a ton on my frame.
0
SPEAKER_02
 physically very uncomfortable, like in pain, just all the things.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I remember after I had Jackson, it was the first time in my life that I thought I need to lose weight and I had no concept.
0
SPEAKER_02
 of even how to, and no idea.
0
SPEAKER_02
And absolutely did things in retrospect that were horrible for my body, like fad diets or protein powders or things.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I mean like slim fast.
0
SPEAKER_02
I don't mean like what we have today that's good for us.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I remember about going through like a month where I was like on a diet and I didn't weigh myself because I was just trying to make great strides and whatever.
0
SPEAKER_02
And finally getting to the end of the month and weighing myself
0
SPEAKER_02
 And I think I had gained a pound and I was devastated.
0
SPEAKER_02
Like, first of all, I probably, my son was probably four months old at the time.
0
SPEAKER_02
I'm exhausted.
0
SPEAKER_02
I don't know what I'm doing.
0
SPEAKER_02
And now I feel like I've been restricting myself and feel like I've been doing things that are good for me.
0
SPEAKER_02
And actually it was the opposite because I really didn't understand food at all.
0
SPEAKER_02
So I was eating things I thought were healthy.
0
SPEAKER_02
 and they weren't.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I was, it just, it was a whole mess.
0
SPEAKER_02
And it's been years of learning a different way.
0
SPEAKER_02
But when you're already tired, you're a mama and you like feel overwhelmed.
0
SPEAKER_02
And now you just did the, then you're like, screw it.
0
SPEAKER_02
Like, why am I even trying?
0
SPEAKER_02
I may as well go to Taco Bell because at least that burrito is gonna make me happy instead of sort of making these choices.
0
SPEAKER_02
So I just, I grew up without
0
SPEAKER_02
 education from my family about what that looked like.
0
SPEAKER_02
And my personal development journey really was a journey of me trying to arm myself with information that I never had.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I found that information in books and podcasts and YouTube videos and it changed my life.
0
SPEAKER_07
 Yeah, no, that's such a great example, by the way.
0
SPEAKER_07
Like, I love that story and journey because it's so relatable for so many people.
0
SPEAKER_07
Like, no one grew up with parents who knew everything about... When I married my wife, I was just like, how do you know all this?
0
SPEAKER_07
Because that's her world.
0
SPEAKER_07
 And I didn't grow up in that way either.
0
SPEAKER_07
I grew up eating four chocolate products a day.
0
SPEAKER_07
So I grew up, I used to eat a chocolate biscuit, a chocolate bar, a chocolate yogurt and a chocolate ice cream every single day and it was amazing.
0
SPEAKER_07
And now I'm like addicted to chocolate for life.
0
SPEAKER_07
Like it's such a strong thing.
0
SPEAKER_07
And it's funny, I actually told Dr. Danny Lehman this.
0
SPEAKER_07
I said to him when he was on the podcast, I said, oh, you know, now I've become really good at controlling my sugar intake and I do a cheat day once a week.
0
SPEAKER_07
And he said, yeah, it should be called a cheat day.
0
SPEAKER_07
I was like, what?
0
SPEAKER_07
He goes, you're cheating your brain.
0
SPEAKER_07
 And he just, he like flipped it on me, like he did that matrix thing.
0
SPEAKER_07
I was like, he was just like, yeah, you're cheating yourself.
0
SPEAKER_07
He was just like, it's not a good thing because you think that your sugar a week is a treat because it's actually cheating your brain.
0
SPEAKER_07
And I was like, oh man.
0
SPEAKER_07
 I still do my once a week.
0
SPEAKER_02
I know, I know.
0
SPEAKER_02
We were honestly, we were talking about it.
0
SPEAKER_02
We're like, he's good.
0
SPEAKER_02
When we have this consultation, he's going to like, tell us like, you never have coffee again.
0
SPEAKER_02
Never.
0
SPEAKER_02
Because I did yesterday.
0
SPEAKER_02
Honestly, I was telling you, I couldn't have coffee beforehand and I had flown out from Austin.
0
SPEAKER_02
And so I could not believe how much brain fog I had yesterday without caffeine.
0
SPEAKER_02
 Like, he texted me yesterday and said, how'd everything go?
0
SPEAKER_02
And I was like, I am addicted to coffee.
0
SPEAKER_02
I am.
0
SPEAKER_02
Because I haven't tried to live without caffeine since I was pregnant the last time.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I cannot believe how much I need that for focus.
0
SPEAKER_02
And in fact, as much as I am high producing, like, you know, I'm always doing, I am an achiever.
0
SPEAKER_02
I like do all the things.
0
SPEAKER_02
 the lowest scoring thing on, you know, that computer test was focus lowest scoring for me.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I had suspected that because I can accomplish a lot, but I get distracted easily.
0
SPEAKER_02
And so I'm dying to know like, why or what am I, what do I need to do?
0
SPEAKER_02
And I'm afraid he's going to be like, never have coffee again.
0
SPEAKER_07
 I think that's all of us.
0
SPEAKER_07
I really do believe that the evolution, and I love social media, right?
0
SPEAKER_07
Like without social media, I wouldn't even have this community we have and be able to have this podcast.
0
SPEAKER_07
So I'm not someone who likes to bash social media.
0
SPEAKER_07
I think it, you know, it has its pros and cons as anything.
0
SPEAKER_07
But I find that as social media apps evolve,
0
SPEAKER_07
 I find that they do worse for my focus and distraction consistently.
0
SPEAKER_07
So I saw the difference between the difference between Instagram and TikTok for my brain.
0
SPEAKER_11
Right.
0
SPEAKER_07
And I'm just being aware, like I haven't even had that tested.
0
SPEAKER_11
Right, right.
0
SPEAKER_07
But I saw that the more time I spent on TikTok,
0
SPEAKER_07
 the more I would need distraction, the more I would feed distraction, the more I would choose distraction.
0
SPEAKER_07
And I've realized that for me at least, I'd love to hear, I'm trying to take this as, I'd love to hear what yours is.
0
SPEAKER_07
For me, I found that when I don't look at my phone first thing in the morning, I'm able to control that urge.
0
SPEAKER_07
 And when I go on breaks, I was literally in Miami for two weeks recently, and the work that I was doing meant from 9 a.m.
0
SPEAKER_07
to 5 p.m.
0
SPEAKER_07
we couldn't be on our phones.
0
SPEAKER_07
I was working with a client, and so I wasn't on my phone.
0
SPEAKER_07
And not being on my phone from 9 a.m.
0
SPEAKER_07
to 5 p.m., which is very abnormal for me in my life, and I'm sure in yours too, it was a phenomenal feeling.
0
SPEAKER_07
And so for me, I've been able to figure that out by realizing I feel so much more clarity and focus when I don't pick up my phone in the morning,
0
SPEAKER_07
 when I do do like a social media fast regularly throughout the year.
0
SPEAKER_07
What have you been doing apart from the coffee?
0
SPEAKER_07
Like, what have you been doing to help improve?
0
SPEAKER_07
And I guess, why do you want to improve your focus is a good question too, because some people are sitting going, well, I'm happy just doing this.
0
SPEAKER_02
 Well, oh my gosh, so many thoughts.
0
SPEAKER_02
So many things, sorry, so many things.
0
SPEAKER_02
So I'll just start here.
0
SPEAKER_02
I literally just went.
0
SPEAKER_02
I love it.
0
SPEAKER_02
So I think three weeks ago, not only did I remove TikTok from my phone, but I closed my account.
0
SPEAKER_11
Wow.
0
SPEAKER_02
I literally deleted it.
0
SPEAKER_02
And it was a very conscious choice because of how, like I would go on fast where I'm like, I'm not gonna open TikTok for a month or whatever, but there's, I mean, obviously it's designed in such a smart way.
0
SPEAKER_02
 I just will lose an hour and a half.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I would sort of tell myself, I would only do that, like, let's say it's night and the kids are in bed and I have nothing to do.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I'm like, okay, I'm just going to watch for five minutes.
0
SPEAKER_02
And then I lose an hour and a half.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I know there's a lot of people who would say like, well, who cares?
0
SPEAKER_02
 I care because the greatest value in my life is growth.
0
SPEAKER_02
And in order for me to grow, I have to constantly be feeding my mind.
0
SPEAKER_02
I sound so cheesy right now.
0
SPEAKER_02
I feel like if I was watching this, I'd be like, OK, whatever.
0
SPEAKER_02
But for me, that's books.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I never run out of nonfiction books on my nightstand, on tables.
0
SPEAKER_02
And so I have all these sacks I really want to read.
0
SPEAKER_02
And that hour and a half, that was my reading time.
0
SPEAKER_02
Because when I'm done, I'm tired, and now I need to go to bed.
0
SPEAKER_02
 For me, it was a very conscious decision of you have to know what it is you want, and this is fun, and this is beautiful, and this is a cool way to connect with people, but I just knew this is not serving me well.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I had tried not having it there, but I don't know if you ever feel like this, like if you have an account on social and you're not posting on it, there's almost this like weird guilt that happens.
0
SPEAKER_02
 And so you feel like you have to, and I just thought, nope, I'm just removing this distraction from my life.
0
SPEAKER_02
So why focus matters to me is there's so many things that I want to do, meaning there are 10 books inside my brain that I want to write, and screenplays, and things I want to try, and stuff I haven't done before.
0
SPEAKER_02
 The only way I'm going to pull that off with a company to run and four children is the ability to focus and get into flow state and get that work done and be highly productive and then move on to the next thing.
0
SPEAKER_02
So for me, I am constantly trying to figure out how I can do those pieces better.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I really feel like this is part of wanting to have a brain scan too.
0
SPEAKER_02
I feel like my focus has gotten so much worse in the last few years.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I don't know if that's the result of social or the phone or
0
SPEAKER_02
 what it is, but I just know that if I can get back into the focus that I had maybe four years ago, whatever was going on, I was so much more productive and I really want that back.
0
SPEAKER_07
I can actually relate to that so much.
0
SPEAKER_07
Like everything you're saying, I'm just like, I feel the same way and that's been what's making me so conscious of it, especially in the last 12 months.
0
SPEAKER_07
 where I think we've all consumed more content in the last 12 months than ever before.
0
SPEAKER_07
And for me as well, like, so I, this is, this is real and I know it sounds like crazy, but it's, I hadn't watched television, like a TV show in the last 10 years before.
0
SPEAKER_11
Me either, before COVID.
0
SPEAKER_07
Before COVID.
0
SPEAKER_11
And then now I have, and I sort of hate it.
0
SPEAKER_07
 Yeah, I literally noticed myself.
0
SPEAKER_07
I watched movies, so I'm a big movie fan, but I hadn't watched a TV show or watched something consistently or binged or any of that.
0
SPEAKER_07
So I do watch movies, just to clarify, because I talk about movies a lot.
0
SPEAKER_07
But TV shows, I hadn't.
0
SPEAKER_07
 And I feel so different mentally now that my habit became every night me and Riley would finish our day and we'd turn on a show, which we didn't do for such a long time.
0
SPEAKER_07
And we've been married for five years.
0
SPEAKER_07
So for five years of our relationship, we haven't done that at the end of the day.
0
SPEAKER_07
We've been doing that nearly every day for the past 12 months.
0
SPEAKER_07
And I feel different.
0
SPEAKER_07
Like I feel slower.
0
SPEAKER_07
I feel more lethargic.
0
SPEAKER_07
I feel less alert.
0
SPEAKER_07
I don't feel my best self.
0
SPEAKER_02
 Well, it's interesting, I was talking to, I was talking to my boyfriend about this, which I'm fine to say that I have a boyfriend, I'm just not going into detail.
0
SPEAKER_02
So I was talking to my boyfriend about this the other day, about how important boredom is for imagination.
0
SPEAKER_02
So when we were all growing up,
0
SPEAKER_02
 you were just bored sometimes.
0
SPEAKER_02
And that was life, right?
0
SPEAKER_02
And in the boredom, you know, we need to have those times when you're a little kid and you'd be bored and you sort of like wander around the house and like try and figure out something to do.
0
SPEAKER_02
And then you'd end up doing something clever, interesting, or like you'd make up a game or whatever.
0
SPEAKER_02
Kids don't have that anymore.
0
SPEAKER_02
There is a million things that can distract them from being bored.
0
SPEAKER_02
 And he said something really interesting.
0
SPEAKER_02
He's like, no, kids are still bored.
0
SPEAKER_02
They're just bored and distracted, which is way more dangerous because they're still bored scrolling on their phone, but now they're not even conscious of the boredom.
0
SPEAKER_02
And what is that doing to the next generation of not being able to be creative thinkers or sort of go outside the box?
0
SPEAKER_02
 I have this conversation with my kids a lot, because they have our old phones.
0
SPEAKER_02
My ex and I, it'll be like, oh, here's an iPhone 4 that you can try and make work.
0
SPEAKER_02
But they definitely have phones, and that's very much a part of their life.
0
SPEAKER_02
 they get so frustrated with me because I'm like, no, you need to be, yeah, I can't figure out what you're going to do with this time.
0
SPEAKER_02
This is your time to, you can read a book, figure it out.
0
SPEAKER_02
And as much as they're frustrated by that process, me removing tech and making them go do something, that's also when my youngest will always gravitate to painting.
0
SPEAKER_02
 Right?
0
SPEAKER_02
The oldest will always go and start playing with Legos or building something that he's like too cool to do because he's 14, but they'll always gravitate to these things that they wouldn't do otherwise.
0
SPEAKER_02
But I wonder how much we need that as adults as well.
0
SPEAKER_02
Like how often are you bored?
0
SPEAKER_02
How often are you just like sitting sort of letting your mind wander?
0
SPEAKER_02
I feel like we're missing that because we just, it's such a, we're always here like grabbing for where's the phone.
0
SPEAKER_07
 Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_07
We're bored and stimulated, which is weird, right?
0
SPEAKER_07
It's like, how can you be stimulated but be bored?
0
SPEAKER_07
But we are.
0
SPEAKER_02
Right.
0
SPEAKER_07
There's actually a great book by the School of Life called How to Be Bored.
0
SPEAKER_07
It's a really small book.
0
SPEAKER_02
Oh, interesting.
0
SPEAKER_07
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_07
I came out a couple of years ago and I spoke about with Yuval Noah Harari, the author of Homo Deus and Sapiens.
0
SPEAKER_05
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_07
We spoke about boredom on the podcast and we were going to start the boredom movement.
0
SPEAKER_07
 We were like, you should have X amount of time every day where you allow yourself to be bored and you allow yourself to not do anything.
0
SPEAKER_07
And maybe, like you said with your children, we'd actually do something innately creative and magical and beautiful.
0
SPEAKER_07
Maybe you won't, maybe you'll just be bored.
0
SPEAKER_02
Just be bored.
0
SPEAKER_07
But it's healthy for the mind and the brain.
0
SPEAKER_07
I wonder what Dr. Dhania was going to tell us.
0
SPEAKER_11
I know.
0
SPEAKER_07
But I wanted to ask you, this is something I've actually wanted to ask you for such a long time.
0
SPEAKER_07
 Because, and you mentioned it, you mentioned you love reading books, stacks of books.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_07
And you've had three phenomenal successes as bestsellers.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_07
But that's not where your author career began.
0
SPEAKER_07
No.
0
SPEAKER_07
And I remember reading articles about you and just looking at like, and I forgot the exact numbers, so forgive me, but how many books did you write before Girl, Wash Your Face?
0
SPEAKER_02
Girl, Wash Your Face was my sixth.
0
SPEAKER_02
 Sick.
0
SPEAKER_07
That's what I was going to say six books before.
0
SPEAKER_07
I was going to say six or seven, but I didn't want to get it right.
0
SPEAKER_07
So girl, wash your face.
0
SPEAKER_07
Girl, stop apologizing.
0
SPEAKER_07
Didn't see that coming.
0
SPEAKER_07
These three books, multi-millions of copies sold, extremely successful, like the guidebook for literally every person I've seen online.
0
SPEAKER_07
But then there's five books before these three.
0
SPEAKER_02
 And like four people read it.
0
SPEAKER_07
Do you have a number of, just as a rough, I'm not asking for a sales figure, I mean more just like how many people would care?
0
SPEAKER_02
I mean that, it's hard with, so the very first book I wrote was called.
0
SPEAKER_02
Oh, they've all changed now.
0
SPEAKER_02
Right, that's what's hard.
0
SPEAKER_02
I'm like, oh, they sold hundreds of thousands now.
0
SPEAKER_02
 No, yes, yes, yes.
0
SPEAKER_02
But back then, you know, here's how I would think of it.
0
SPEAKER_02
So when you're an author, just saying this for peeps who are at home who might not know, you get an advance.
0
SPEAKER_02
So a publisher gives you an advance to write a book, and then if you sell out that advance, then you start making royalties.
0
SPEAKER_02
I know you know this.
0
SPEAKER_07
 No, no, no.
0
SPEAKER_07
It's useful.
0
SPEAKER_02
It's very useful.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_02
So just as a point of reference, my advance for my first book, which was Party Girl, was $1,000.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I was like, I am rich.
0
SPEAKER_02
I have made it.
0
SPEAKER_02
I'm killing it in life.
0
SPEAKER_02
So that was just this tiny fiction book that I wanted to write about and I still love so much.
0
SPEAKER_02
 Fiction is still such a big place in my heart.
0
SPEAKER_02
I actually just finished my first screenplay.
0
SPEAKER_02
That's amazing.
0
SPEAKER_07
I didn't know that.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I've always wanted to do it and I've had the idea forever.
0
SPEAKER_02
But that's again, this sort of like creativity and ability to focus is like, how do I shift my brain from thing to thing?
0
SPEAKER_02
Um, so yeah, so I started in fiction and I think that'll always be a part of, of, of like love for me.
0
SPEAKER_02
And it doesn't even have to be successful.
0
SPEAKER_02
Here's the interesting thing.
0
SPEAKER_02
Maybe we talked about this when we did the podcast.
0
SPEAKER_02
 Um, being an author was never ever something I planned to be known for.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
0
SPEAKER_02
I just love books and it was my hobby.
0
SPEAKER_02
And so I would write a book.
0
SPEAKER_02
And in fact, Party Girl, I self-published.
0
SPEAKER_02
No publisher wanted that book.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I self-published and then it started to sell and it started to do well.
0
SPEAKER_02
And then a publisher came and said, Hey, we want to buy this and turn it into a series and we'll give you a thousand dollars.
0
SPEAKER_05
And I'm like,
0
SPEAKER_02
 Hot damn.
0
SPEAKER_02
Wow.
0
SPEAKER_02
So it really was just supposed to be this little thing I did on the side.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I honestly, I don't know how this will sound, but like, I miss the obscurity.
0
SPEAKER_02
I miss writing and not having anyone care what I wrote about because there is a freedom as a creative to do whatever you want to do.
0
SPEAKER_02
Like, do you remember when you first maybe started creating content and you could freaking do anything and now everything
1
SPEAKER_04
 things under a microscope and how did it perform compared to that?
1
SPEAKER_04
And what, and so I feel like you lose some of that artistic, you know, joy in the process.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I love that.
1
SPEAKER_01
That's been actually, it's really interesting every time.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I've been having this conversation a lot more recently, like people have been asking me like, what's the big thing you're doing this year?
1
SPEAKER_01
Right.
1
SPEAKER_01
And that's a question I'm sure you get asked a ton.
1
SPEAKER_04
What's the next book?
1
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
 Well, really, if I'm completely honest, the big thing I'm doing this year is self discovery, like rediscovery.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like I'm so, I'm in such a strange land for myself this year and I'm loving it because it's the first time where I'm just like, I just want to figure out what I care about.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like I really want to just explore and be,
1
SPEAKER_01
 you know, re-find what I want to dedicate my life to for the next three to five years or whatever it is.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I'm just in that space.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I can see how uncomfortable it is as an answer to some people who are like, well, Jay, you can do this.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I'm like, well, we're doing a lot of stuff that I love.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, I love the podcast.
1
SPEAKER_01
I'm sitting down with amazing people.
1
SPEAKER_01
I am writing my second book and I'm loving the process.
1
SPEAKER_01
 There's also a part of me that's allowing myself to just unfold and unravel again.
1
SPEAKER_01
And a lot of it to me is, and I said this to my friends the other day, we had a group call with all my friends in London who I miss.
1
SPEAKER_01
 And I was saying, like, I literally feel like I'm back at the beginning of my journey again in so many ways.
1
SPEAKER_04
I do too.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_04
That's wild.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
I do too.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it's really, like, liberating and refreshing.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I love that you said that.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I'm so happy.
1
SPEAKER_01
It's nice to know that, you know, you're not alone even when you are.
1
SPEAKER_04
Well, I feel like I'm experiencing that too or did experience that.
1
SPEAKER_04
Maybe everybody did coming through 2020.
1
SPEAKER_04
 But in 2020, I got divorced and I had been with him for 18 years.
1
SPEAKER_04
So it was literally the first date I went on.
1
SPEAKER_04
I'd never been on, like, my boyfriend right now is the second man I've ever been on a date with.
1
SPEAKER_01
Wow, I didn't know that.
1
SPEAKER_01
Wow, that's amazing.
1
SPEAKER_04
It's pretty wild.
1
SPEAKER_04
 But what I'm seeing in real time and it is like how often we think, and this is going to sound, I don't know, how often we think like this is what life is.
1
SPEAKER_04
And then you go through something, hopefully we just went through this globally, but you go through something that shakes that and you realize like, oh,
1
SPEAKER_04
 wait, I can redefine my life at any moment.
1
SPEAKER_04
I can change the way that I see things or do things.
1
SPEAKER_04
Even in my relationship, you know what he does for a living and it's not a normal job.
1
SPEAKER_04
And it involves a lot of travel, like a lot.
1
SPEAKER_04
And even that is very interesting for me to wrap my brain around.
1
SPEAKER_04
Like at first I was sort of like, well, how is this going to work?
1
SPEAKER_04
Because I only know one way of being in a relationship with someone.
1
SPEAKER_04
And now I'm,
1
SPEAKER_04
 I'm like, or you can reframe the way you see this.
1
SPEAKER_04
Like how lucky are you?
1
SPEAKER_04
First of all, he's amazing.
1
SPEAKER_04
He's super hot, but also, but also like what a cool job and what sort of adventures are we going to get to have because of the travel and all of those things.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I'm reframing how that looks.
1
SPEAKER_04
 Even sort of reframing, we all did this with work.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I know you've worked from home, but for most people, that was a new experience last year.
1
SPEAKER_04
And now I feel like suddenly business owners besides me are like, wait, do I need an office?
1
SPEAKER_04
I don't think I need an office.
1
SPEAKER_04
I mean, I need a studio, but I don't need everything I thought I needed to do life in a certain way.
1
SPEAKER_04
So I'm really loving the redefinition of how I'm going to show up in the world.
1
SPEAKER_04
 And like you said, discovering what that means.
1
SPEAKER_04
I also think coming out of 2019, 2019 was the most insane, constantly on the road, speaking all the time.
1
SPEAKER_04
I don't know if you've had seasons like that.
1
SPEAKER_04
And a second book in a row comes out, and press tours, and just it's madness.
1
SPEAKER_04
It was untenable.
1
SPEAKER_04
It was not something I could have kept doing.
1
SPEAKER_04
And it was also the most financially successful year of my life.
1
SPEAKER_04
 And what I love is the reminder.
1
SPEAKER_04
I want to acknowledge that in 2020, so many awful, hard things happened for so many people.
1
SPEAKER_04
Lost jobs, lost businesses, lost family members.
1
SPEAKER_04
There were so many pieces of that that were brutal.
1
SPEAKER_04
 But as a human, having gone through a lot of really hard stuff in my childhood, I really do live my life trying to figure out how an experience can be for me.
1
SPEAKER_04
Like, how can this experience, what can I learn from even the hardest seasons?
1
SPEAKER_04
And so I'm looking at 2020, and I'm grateful for the knowledge or the reminder that it can all be taken away.
1
SPEAKER_04
 it can all be taken away.
1
SPEAKER_04
The business that you thought couldn't be touched, the speaking career that you thought was amazing, your health, your relationship, like all of these foundations I had in my life were eviscerated in 2020.
1
SPEAKER_04
 And I will, because I know this about myself, I will hold that knowledge for the rest of my life.
1
SPEAKER_04
That I'm going to be so grateful that I get to sit in this room with you because there were 18 months that I didn't get to sit in a room and talk to friends.
1
SPEAKER_04
I'm a little worried.
1
SPEAKER_04
I don't know how you feel about this, but
1
SPEAKER_04
 I feel like human nature is that everyone wants to forget what we just went through.
1
SPEAKER_04
I mean, if you go to an airport, I don't know if you've been to an airport in the last month, it's wild.
1
SPEAKER_04
They are packed.
1
SPEAKER_04
People are like, I'm going on vacation.
1
SPEAKER_04
I'm living my life.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I get it.
1
SPEAKER_04
 But at the same time, there were beautiful pieces.
1
SPEAKER_04
We did slow down.
1
SPEAKER_04
We were more present.
1
SPEAKER_04
We spent time with our family.
1
SPEAKER_04
We called our grandma.
1
SPEAKER_04
We did these things.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I just don't want to forget the redefining and the shifting and all of these things that we learned last year.
1
SPEAKER_04
That's my big thing going forward is like, Jess, hold this.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so I was actually going to follow up with that, but I think you answered it.
1
SPEAKER_01
That's how you process the idea
1
SPEAKER_01
 that the lesson you said you learned was that everything can be lost at any moment, which can feel like a very overwhelming, painful thought for a lot of people, and it is in a valid way.
1
SPEAKER_01
But you're saying that the way you hold that thought is saying, let's not forget what we did get.
1
SPEAKER_01
This is precious.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, this is precious.
1
SPEAKER_04
This is like, let's hold this.
1
SPEAKER_04
Let's be conscious of this.
1
SPEAKER_04
 It was actually a big part of what I wrote about in the last book, because unfortunately I've experienced a lot of loss, like I've lost a lot of people I love in my life.
1
SPEAKER_04
And when you go through, when you lose someone in death,
1
SPEAKER_04
 I think you're always reminded of how short life is and that it can be taken so fast and you don't expect it.
1
SPEAKER_04
And so I think you're more, when you come out the other side of grief like that, you're more aware to say, I love you every time, to give people hugs, to look them in the eye, to be conscious of those moments.
1
SPEAKER_04
 And that's what I'm hoping coming through last year that I just don't miss.
1
SPEAKER_04
Like I remember the first time I have a very close group of best girlfriends and they are my sisters, my squad, my like everything.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I went through however many months we all did where we were in lockdown and I couldn't see them.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I will never forget, we all met up in Palm Springs.
1
SPEAKER_04
So I had seen them last at the beginning of March and it was July.
1
SPEAKER_04
 And I know there are people who went longer than that.
1
SPEAKER_04
And so I'm conscious of how blessed I am.
1
SPEAKER_04
But I remember coming out of the Palm Springs airport and my three best girlfriends are waiting there and just running and like holding them and sobbing because we just hadn't been together.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I just don't want to miss that.
1
SPEAKER_04
I just don't want to lose those pieces.
1
SPEAKER_04
I even thought this, you know, I'm in this new relationship.
1
SPEAKER_04
It's like five months.
1
SPEAKER_04
 And I was telling him today, I was like, I want us, we're both big journalers.
1
SPEAKER_04
I'm a big journaler.
1
SPEAKER_04
We're so cool.
1
SPEAKER_04
We both journal every day.
1
SPEAKER_04
It's a big part of our morning routine.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I was like, I want us both to journal what it feels like at five months.
1
SPEAKER_04
 because it already feels different than it did at two months.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I don't want to lose this because I know what it feels like to be in a relationship for 18 years and lose pieces because of kids and life and hardships and pain and all of this stuff that you lose.
1
SPEAKER_04
 I'm going to sound so cheesy right now and that's okay, but when we first started- I love how you keep saying that, you're prefacing all the women.
1
SPEAKER_04
Because I'm embarrassed.
1
SPEAKER_04
So when we first started dating, well, first of all, I'll just tell you this because it's
1
SPEAKER_04
 great.
1
SPEAKER_04
We were not dating.
1
SPEAKER_04
We were friends.
1
SPEAKER_04
You know, he lives in Austin and it was just supposed to be this friend that like we got coffee and we would go walk around the lake.
1
SPEAKER_04
That was like, we were just friends.
1
SPEAKER_04
And both of us were not, we're just wanting nothing.
1
SPEAKER_04
And then we would go have, we would get coffee and we would walk around the lake.
1
SPEAKER_04
And then I would get back to my car and it had been like four and a half hours.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I was like,
1
SPEAKER_04
 That's weird.
1
SPEAKER_04
What a good friend this is.
1
SPEAKER_04
And then I just started to feel like, oh my God, I think I have a crush, like I'm eight.
1
SPEAKER_04
Like it was so lame, whatever.
1
SPEAKER_04
But when we first started dating, I remember I was...
1
SPEAKER_04
 So embarrassing.
1
SPEAKER_04
But I would literally, like, I would look at his eyes and I would just, like, have a panic attack.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I was just like, he's so beautiful and his eyes are so beautiful.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I'm just, like, lost in his eyes.
1
SPEAKER_04
And people would be like, are you okay?
1
SPEAKER_04
And I'm like, what?
1
SPEAKER_04
I couldn't even hear what he said.
1
SPEAKER_04
And yesterday I was like, oh my God, when is the last time that I looked at his eyes and freaked out about how beautiful they are?
1
SPEAKER_04
And I know that sounds
1
SPEAKER_04
 whatever, but I just thought it's just like being conscious of these things, being conscious of my daughter's four and she's so sassy and she like puts her hand on her hip and she's like got an opinion and she's adorable.
1
SPEAKER_04
And honestly, I'm so screwed when she's a teenager, but I just want to be conscious of this stuff because life is speeding back up so fast and I don't want to miss it.
1
SPEAKER_06
 Parents, ready to discover a new educational and interactive podcast for kids?
1
SPEAKER_06
Join Stories for Kids by Lingokids, where episodes are packed with fun activities.
1
SPEAKER_06
Right, Elliot?
1
SPEAKER_06
Oh, yes!
1
SPEAKER_06
We learned how to recycle at the beach.
1
SPEAKER_06
 That was great fun!
1
SPEAKER_06
Cowie, what do you say?
1
SPEAKER_06
It was!
1
SPEAKER_06
And that time when we did the science experiment, and Billy made raisins dance!
1
SPEAKER_06
That is so cool, Billy!
1
SPEAKER_06
He did!
1
SPEAKER_06
Not to mention when a certain Elliot took up swimming classes with Lisa.
1
SPEAKER_06
That was me!
1
SPEAKER_06
Bet you can't catch me!
1
SPEAKER_06
I'm going to get you!
1
SPEAKER_06
 All this fun and more in our Stories for Kids.
1
SPEAKER_06
Lingo Kids Stories for Kids is now available on Story Button, the kid-friendly device for screenless podcast listening.
1
SPEAKER_06
Listen to Stories for Kids on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1
SPEAKER_00
 A new season of Bridgerton is here.
1
SPEAKER_00
And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm your host, Gabrielle Collins.
1
SPEAKER_00
And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
1
SPEAKER_00
Colin Bridgerton has returned from his travels abroad.
1
SPEAKER_00
Is Betrothal written in the stars for the eligible bachelor?
1
SPEAKER_00
 Meanwhile, the ton is reverberating with speculation of who holds Lady Whistledown's pen.
1
SPEAKER_00
We're discussing it all.
1
SPEAKER_00
I sit down with Nicola Coughlin, Luke Newton, Shonda Rhimes, and more to offer an exclusive peek behind the scenes of each episode of the new season.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
1
SPEAKER_00
Then fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1
SPEAKER_00
Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday.
1
SPEAKER_02
 Guess what, Mango?
1
SPEAKER_02
What's that, Will?
1
SPEAKER_02
So iHeart is giving us a whole minute to promote our podcast, Part-Time Genius.
1
SPEAKER_03
I know, that's why I spent my whole week composing a haiku for the occasion.
1
SPEAKER_03
It's about my emotional journey in podcasting over the last seven years, and it's called Earthquake House.
1
SPEAKER_02
Mango, I'm going to cut you off right there.
1
SPEAKER_03
Why don't we just tell people about our show instead?
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, that's a better idea.
1
SPEAKER_03
So every week on Part-Time Genius, we feed our curiosity by answering the world's most important questions.
1
SPEAKER_03
Things like, when did America start dialing 911?
1
SPEAKER_03
 is William Shatner's best acting work in Esperanto.
1
SPEAKER_03
Also, what happened to Esperanto?
1
SPEAKER_02
Plus, we cover questions like how Chinese is your Chinese food?
1
SPEAKER_02
How do dollar stores stay in business?
1
SPEAKER_02
And of course, is there an Illuminati of cheese?
1
SPEAKER_02
There absolutely is.
1
SPEAKER_03
And we are risking our lives by talking about it.
1
SPEAKER_03
But if you love mind blowing facts, incredible history and really bad jokes, make your brains happy and tune in to part time genius.
1
SPEAKER_02
Listen to Part Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
1
SPEAKER_04
 There's this, have you ever read The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron?
1
SPEAKER_04
So she has this quote, which I'm going to butcher right now, but basically that the quality of your life is the quality of your ability to pay attention, to pay attention to the details and to see
1
SPEAKER_04
 all the little things that are happening around you.
1
SPEAKER_04
So that's my, that's my goal.
1
SPEAKER_01
That's a great lesson.
1
SPEAKER_01
That was a beautiful affirmation for all of us.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think the way you were sharing that, like, I think we were all thinking about like, Oh, what have, what have I, what am I going to miss?
1
SPEAKER_01
Or what am I going to forget?
1
SPEAKER_01
Right.
1
SPEAKER_04
Or like, what is it?
1
SPEAKER_04
The law of familiarity.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_04
That it happens so often that you just take it for granted.
1
SPEAKER_04
 We have a mutual friend who has a really, and I'm not going to say his name, but I'll tell you later, but like he has a really insane house here in the Hollywood Hills, just absolutely insane.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I remember going over there for the first time and he and his wife had worked so hard and this is like such a celebration of how hard they worked.
1
SPEAKER_04
And it's the most insane view I've ever seen in LA, like ridiculous.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I remember walking in the first time and being like, what the?
1
SPEAKER_04
 hell, like what on earth?
1
SPEAKER_01
And he's like, yeah, you know what I'm talking about, right?
1
SPEAKER_04
So I'm like walking through with them and they're like, yeah, and it's whatever.
1
SPEAKER_04
And he's like, and just, I feel like what I'm most nervous about is the day that I walk into this living room and that view doesn't take my breath away.
1
SPEAKER_04
And the only way to counteract that is to be conscious of not wanting to have that happen.
1
SPEAKER_04
You know, I, I think this with, um,
1
SPEAKER_04
 like interacting with fans or readers or listeners of your podcast.
1
SPEAKER_04
If you've ever had those moments where maybe you're tired or you're on press tour or just something's happening where you're like, you're depleted and you maybe are like, oh, I've had those moments where I'm like, oh, I have to go do a book signing right now, right?
1
SPEAKER_04
And I make myself remember, I make myself remember the first 25 book signings
1
SPEAKER_04
 where two people came, and I was related to one of them, right?
1
SPEAKER_04
Like, I make myself remember what it feels like to sit at that table and have nobody come up and ask you, or nobody cares about your book, nobody wants to read, and like, you've worked so hard, because if I can put myself back into those places, I will always be conscious of appreciating these.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it's, and it is like, you know, this is, we know this,
1
SPEAKER_01
 But we still don't get it right.
1
SPEAKER_01
Tomorrow is going to be the three year mark of me moving to LA.
1
SPEAKER_04
Oh really?
1
SPEAKER_04
Did you move from London?
1
SPEAKER_01
From New York.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was in New York for two years.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I went from London to New York for two years and then moved to LA three years ago.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I've been in the States for five years.
1
SPEAKER_01
 I hope every day, and I do this right now, but again, what you're saying, I drive through LA streets and people think, it was always interesting, people always just like, oh, why do you live in LA?
1
SPEAKER_01
It's superficial, materialistic, whatever.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I'm like, I live here because I get to see blue skies every morning.
1
SPEAKER_01
I didn't get that in London.
1
SPEAKER_01
I know what that feels like.
1
SPEAKER_01
It barely rains.
1
SPEAKER_01
I can wear anything I want every day.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don't have to think about carrying an umbrella.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, I look at the palm trees every day in like the mirror through my car.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I'm just like,
1
SPEAKER_01
 I live in a place that I would have dreamed to go on vacation.
1
SPEAKER_01
Right.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so there's such a like appreciation for nature and the hikes.
1
SPEAKER_01
Today I went on a hike around.
1
SPEAKER_01
We have a hike close to where we live.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it was just like, that to me is how I want to feel.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I hope I feel like that forever.
1
SPEAKER_01
But you're right.
1
SPEAKER_01
The only way you feel like that forever is by not forgetting.
1
SPEAKER_05
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so I think everyone right now, I want you to sit down.
1
SPEAKER_01
I want you to take a moment to do what Rachel just said and take a moment to just ask yourself, what am I scared of forgetting?
1
SPEAKER_04
 Ooh, good one.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know, like, what am I scared of forgetting from this last 12 months?
1
SPEAKER_01
It's been painful for all of us.
1
SPEAKER_01
I've lost people.
1
SPEAKER_01
Rachel says she's lost people.
1
SPEAKER_01
We've had family, friends and mentors and people that we've lost.
1
SPEAKER_01
What are you scared of forgetting that was a gift at this time?
1
SPEAKER_01
I think that's such a beautiful reflection for people to do.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I'm so glad you shared that with us because we do need to hear it again and again.
1
SPEAKER_04
 Yeah, I mean, I think another way, this is sort of going back to an earlier thing you said about not looking at your phone in the morning.
1
SPEAKER_04
Probably the greatest practice in my life, and I've done it for a decade, is journaling every single morning.
1
SPEAKER_04
And a lot of times, those are where I remember.
1
SPEAKER_04
It's that very conscious moment of, I mean, this is a Julia Cameron thing too, but doing the morning pages.
1
SPEAKER_04
So having to fill a certain amount of pages every single morning.
1
SPEAKER_04
And sometimes you have great things to say, and sometimes you're just like,
1
SPEAKER_04
 It's cold.
1
SPEAKER_04
I'm tired.
1
SPEAKER_04
You know, you can't sort of think, but those are when I have those detailed moments.
1
SPEAKER_04
And for the longest time, I never reread the journals.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I've started doing that every time I get to the end of a journal, I'll start at the beginning and read all the pages.
1
SPEAKER_01
How many do you have?
1
SPEAKER_04
A lot.
1
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
1
SPEAKER_01
That's cool.
1
SPEAKER_04
I have a lot.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_04
And it's such a beautiful,
1
SPEAKER_04
 collection for me of just life and what was happening and how I was feeling.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I heard someone say recently, she was like, you'll never get to be with this version of yourself again.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I just thought that was so beautiful.
1
SPEAKER_04
I heard it at a time when, you know, when I started dating this person and I didn't have a lot of experience and I felt so nervous and
1
SPEAKER_04
 You know, I can get on stage and speak to 18,000 people, zero problem.
1
SPEAKER_04
Like hanging out with Oprah, we're all good.
1
SPEAKER_04
But going on a date, I felt like I was going to die.
1
SPEAKER_04
Like I felt like I was going to have a heart attack.
1
SPEAKER_04
I didn't know how to act.
1
SPEAKER_04
I was so awkward.
1
SPEAKER_04
I didn't feel like myself.
1
SPEAKER_04
I just, it was, it was a joke.
1
SPEAKER_04
 And I was really hard on myself internally about that.
1
SPEAKER_04
Like, how can you be this person who's achieved all these things, and you can't sit and have dinner with this man without acting like an idiot?
1
SPEAKER_04
And I was so frustrated.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I heard that quote, and I just loved it.
1
SPEAKER_04
 Oh, you're never going to be with this like nervous, giddy version of yourself again.
1
SPEAKER_04
You're never like, if it doesn't work out with this person and you date someone else, that time surely you won't be as nervous as you were here.
1
SPEAKER_04
So could you just allow yourself to be graceful and appreciate
1
SPEAKER_04
 this version of you, who she is today.
1
SPEAKER_04
And that really helped me to sort of sit in the process.
1
SPEAKER_04
But if you're already journaling about what you don't want to forget, I can't, there's no greater practice I have in my life is just writing down the thoughts.
1
SPEAKER_01
I love that.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
And for anyone who doesn't see themselves as a writer, try.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Because it will come out.
1
SPEAKER_01
And if you really can't, then what I do is voice note.
1
SPEAKER_01
 So I voice record myself all the time.
1
SPEAKER_01
I find it easier to talk, find it easier to listen to myself.
1
SPEAKER_01
I can always listen to myself on 1.5 or 2 if I'm listening back.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I find like talking out loud to myself helps me remember things in a really, you know, visceral way.
1
SPEAKER_04
That's awesome.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so yeah, I think journaling is a huge practice, writing or audio, whichever one works for whoever's listening.
1
SPEAKER_01
But you know, you were talking about, you've been doing my relationships and
1
SPEAKER_01
 You know, people have gone through so many big relationship transitions during COVID.
1
SPEAKER_01
You went through a huge one.
1
SPEAKER_01
I feel like transitions are hard, but that's what life is made of, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
It's like life is made of transitions.
1
SPEAKER_01
And transitions are usually where we feel we need the most help.
1
SPEAKER_01
It's where we're at our weakest, where we struggle.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like whether you're moving house, getting married, getting divorced, breaking up, meeting someone new, all of these are transitions.
1
SPEAKER_01
 And these are the most life-defining moments.
1
SPEAKER_01
How have you learned to transition better as life has progressed?
1
SPEAKER_01
Because we never perfect it.
1
SPEAKER_01
We never get it right.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
Have you got better at transitioning in life?
1
SPEAKER_01
Do you feel you have?
1
SPEAKER_01
What has helped you do it?
1
SPEAKER_04
I think I've gotten so much better because I don't rush it.
1
SPEAKER_04
That is the biggest lesson I have learned in 38 years is
1
SPEAKER_04
 had I gone through a divorce 10 years ago, I would have pushed myself to like, okay, get over it, figure it out.
1
SPEAKER_04
It's been four weeks.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I really was so proud of myself in the divorce that I let myself sit in the pain.
1
SPEAKER_04
And it was so painful and it was so hard.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I let myself feel every emotion.
1
SPEAKER_04
I let myself feel
1
SPEAKER_04
 super sad I let myself feel very angry at him and very angry at myself and I just let it all sort of flow through me and kind of almost like watching yourself experience those emotions instead of like drowning inside them and that was I think so much more healing and I think is a huge reason that I can't speak for him and how he processed but I know for me that's a huge reason
1
SPEAKER_04
 for why I think our relationship is so healthy and good and why we were able to transition our kids so well through the process.
1
SPEAKER_04
So for me, I think in transition, just allowing yourself to like be in it is a big one.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I also, when you were talking about transition, I was also thinking
1
SPEAKER_04
 it's not just the transitions that sort of make us, it's also points of tension.
1
SPEAKER_04
It's areas of tension, which essentially, if you are going through a change, that's gonna feel tense.
1
SPEAKER_04
But those areas of tension in our life are either going to make us someone better or we're gonna get worse.
1
SPEAKER_04
There is no, there's no sort of stasis.
1
SPEAKER_04
There's no, I think a lot of people think that they can hang out in a comfort zone, but you're either being pushed
1
SPEAKER_04
 and becoming better or you're being pushed and becoming worse.
1
SPEAKER_04
And if we can, I think there's a lot, like if we can sort of not embrace tension, well actually, yeah, like my tattoo says embrace the suck.
1
SPEAKER_04
Because I really do believe that
1
SPEAKER_04
 the best version of me comes on the other side of the hardest seasons.
1
SPEAKER_04
And that feels like transition or change or whatever it looks like is just allowing myself to be like, we're gonna embrace this.
1
SPEAKER_04
We're gonna embrace all the parts of this and hopefully come out the other side as a better version of me.
1
SPEAKER_04
I do really believe that, I assume that you are like a manifest or goal setting, like you have an idea
1
SPEAKER_04
 of like who you want to be in your life, right?
1
SPEAKER_04
And not even necessarily what you want to achieve, but just like the kind of man that you want to be.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I think that when we call our shot like that, when we start to dream and envision and have a plan for where we want to go, I do think the universe shows up to aid us in that process, but it isn't necessarily
1
SPEAKER_04
 an easy journey or a comfortable one.
1
SPEAKER_04
I think that most of the time people call the shot and then everything goes to hell in a handbasket.
1
SPEAKER_04
Everything gets hard.
1
SPEAKER_04
Everything feels impossible.
1
SPEAKER_04
And they're like, they use that as an excuse or they see that as an example of, oh, well, that goal wasn't for me or that dream wasn't meant to be mine.
1
SPEAKER_04
When the reality I think is that the universe was like, oh, no, no,
1
SPEAKER_04
 No, no, you said you wanted that thing.
1
SPEAKER_04
And so we've put things in your path to make you strong enough to climb that mountain.
1
SPEAKER_04
Like you had to go through these things to have that, but you just, you gave up here.
1
SPEAKER_04
You quit because you thought that the hardship meant that it wasn't supposed to be yours.
1
SPEAKER_04
When really I think that the hardship was meant to grow you into who you're meant to become.
1
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_01
Is that, is that what kept you going when you were writing
1
SPEAKER_01
 five books.
1
SPEAKER_01
Right.
1
SPEAKER_01
Because that's just that to me is the perfect example of you living what you just said.
1
SPEAKER_01
Right.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like that to me is such a great you know if it's like when I look at you and everything you've achieved and all the amazing work you do to me when I when I remember reading that story years ago
1
SPEAKER_01
 and just going, wow, like six books.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like that is not a joke.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like there's nothing about that that is easy.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know, we talk about like, you know, it's like, oh, and I think a lot of people can relate to this today because we live in the world of like, oh, I put out three videos and none of them went viral.
1
SPEAKER_01
So like what I do, like, you know, we live in this world of like, oh, but I've been posting every day for a month and nothing's happened.
1
SPEAKER_01
Or, and I feel people have this, how did you write five
1
SPEAKER_01
 books and keep going.
1
SPEAKER_01
Was it just that you loved it and you were passionate?
1
SPEAKER_01
Were you getting better?
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, what was, what kept you going to get to that point?
1
SPEAKER_04
I think all those things, right?
1
SPEAKER_04
I did love it.
1
SPEAKER_04
I was very passionate about doing it and I felt like I was getting better.
1
SPEAKER_04
And
1
SPEAKER_04
 I honestly think I maybe have a different view of failure than other people do.
1
SPEAKER_04
I think that it's one of the things people are most terrified of in the world, especially in my community.
1
SPEAKER_04
So many women in my community, petrified of failing.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I always think like,
1
SPEAKER_04
 If you can understand that 99% of the time, you're not afraid of failing.
1
SPEAKER_04
You're afraid of other people seeing you fail.
1
SPEAKER_04
And that's about your ego.
1
SPEAKER_04
That's not about your work.
1
SPEAKER_04
And so for me, I have a really different definition of what it is to fail.
1
SPEAKER_04
 And I get it wrong, I freaking get it wrong all the time.
1
SPEAKER_04
Like I, oh gosh, back in April said something on social media that was so hurtful to so many people and I was devastated.
1
SPEAKER_04
I'm still devastated.
1
SPEAKER_04
I could like cry forever.
1
SPEAKER_04
You and I have texted about this the last couple of months.
1
SPEAKER_04
 But I also think that like, I have to get it wrong.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I hope, I freaking hope that people see me get it wrong and then keep trying to learn and do better.
1
SPEAKER_04
Like I think as, honestly, as a white woman in America, I have to acknowledge when I mess up, when my privilege is showing, understand that I didn't understand and do the work to figure it out.
1
SPEAKER_04
But I feel like there is this sort of,
1
SPEAKER_04
 way of being right now that it's like, if you get it wrong, like go, just quit.
1
SPEAKER_04
Just stop.
1
SPEAKER_04
Just, just, if your book flopped, then don't write another one.
1
SPEAKER_04
If you put out five pieces of content and nobody cared, then that should be it.
1
SPEAKER_04
If you say something that you shouldn't have said, like, but my God, how are we going to improve?
1
SPEAKER_04
How will we evolve as human beings if we're not willing to get it wrong?
1
SPEAKER_04
And honestly, as painful as that experience was, and it was so painful because
1
SPEAKER_04
 my worst nightmare is hurting someone, especially without intention, like all of that.
1
SPEAKER_04
But I
1
SPEAKER_04
 freaking have, I am a, like, I'm a different mom because of that experience.
1
SPEAKER_04
I've had my, two of my best girlfriends are black women and like have had to have the hardest, most painful conversations with them and how that has evolved our friendship because of that.
1
SPEAKER_04
What it looks like to have your kid come home from middle school and be like, oh, I saw a YouTube video where someone was making fun of
2
SPEAKER_01
 Like that, as a mom, that's devastating.
2
SPEAKER_01
But then, okay, great, let's have a conversation about what it looks like for us to have privilege and own that.
2
SPEAKER_01
And like all of it, it's a big, painful, like mistake.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And I could see that as a failure and I could literally, and I think plenty of people do, just stop trying to learn or close themselves off.
2
SPEAKER_01
And man, I'm never going to get better as a human being if I don't go through that process, all of us.
2
SPEAKER_01
 So I guess I just have, I really, oh, this is going to sound like a bumper sticker, but I really, I only think it's a failure if I didn't learn from the process.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that goes for books or content or podcasts or relationships, any of it.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, when I got divorced, I got such awful backlash from so many people and, you know, that my marriage failed.
2
SPEAKER_01
I'm like, my marriage.
2
SPEAKER_01
 is a massive success.
2
SPEAKER_01
Four beautiful kids, four kids through foster care, 18 years together, like beautiful memories, grew so much, dear friends, still raising a family to get like...
2
SPEAKER_01
 That's not a failure.
2
SPEAKER_01
Maybe that's your definition of failure.
2
SPEAKER_01
That's not mine.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I think that I guess maybe the advice I would give in this is if we could all be more graceful with ourselves and redefine earnestly and humbly, go into situations where really your intention is to grow.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I told you my number one value in life is growth.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And I will tell you that when you call that shot, you know, I've for years, I've had, I'm a nerd.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I have written down all my core values.
2
SPEAKER_01
But if that's your defining core value, it's the same sort of thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, all right, the universe is going to give you some opportunity to grow.
2
SPEAKER_01
 But yeah, I think that that is the most important piece is that you have to redefine what failing is.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, failing is getting to the end of my life and not having tried and not having written these stories down in my head because I was worried about what people would think of me for, you know, wanting to write about superheroes or wanting to make a movie, like who freaking cares?
2
SPEAKER_01
Because I think that when you get to the end of your life,
2
SPEAKER_01
 You're the only one there.
2
SPEAKER_03
It's just you, you know?
2
SPEAKER_01
And I don't want to get there and think like, oh, I could have, I could have done that thing, or I might've had that, or maybe there was more work for me to do, but I was so scared of what people would think, or I was so scared of getting it wrong that I just thought it was better not to try.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Thank you so much for sharing that.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think it's, it's amazing just hearing someone go through a difficult time personally, professionally, and then to share in the way you have.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you know, it's, it's hard because it's, it's that balance between what you've just said is it's that balance between being humble enough to learn from others, but there's a part of you when you're creating
2
SPEAKER_00
 to not get tied up in people's opinions.
2
SPEAKER_00
So it's like knowing like, for example, when you make a mistake, to be able to learn from it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you know, I think about it.
2
SPEAKER_00
I've made so many mistakes.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm not perfect.
2
SPEAKER_00
And often when you're trying to teach the challenges that, yeah, you're on a pedestal now and it's difficult to then make mistakes.
2
SPEAKER_00
But
2
SPEAKER_00
 we're trying to learn as we're trying to help.
2
SPEAKER_00
And there's no, you know, like, I don't think, I don't think anyone on the planet is perfect.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I don't think we should aspire for it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I don't think there's anyone who gets anything right all the time.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think my best girlfriend, we talked a lot about this.
2
SPEAKER_01
She does a ton of work in racial reconciliation and understanding diversity and it's, it's what her,
2
SPEAKER_01
 training is in.
2
SPEAKER_01
And she had this great line where she was like, Rachel, there's a difference between your intent and your impact.
2
SPEAKER_01
Those are two completely different things.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like your intent was this, but the impact was this.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And in you not knowing that the impact would be this, that is the definition of your privilege.
2
SPEAKER_01
And like you not being aware of that thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
So there was- That's so well explained.
2
SPEAKER_00
I love that.
2
SPEAKER_00
That's a really great definition.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because I think what, I definitely had a moment of getting trapped in this narrative and I'm sure other people do too, is you're like, but
2
SPEAKER_01
 I wasn't, that wasn't what I, and it's like, no, no, it doesn't matter.
2
SPEAKER_01
It doesn't even matter what you said, it matters what they heard, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
And like, if you care about the community and what you're trying to do and the work that you're putting out in the world, and you did hurt someone, it doesn't matter what the intent was.
2
SPEAKER_01
It only matters what it felt like to them.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I have to own that and hold space for it and
2
SPEAKER_01
 learn from it and grow and all of that.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I'm curious then how, what that looks like for you as a creator.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was talking to Trent about this too.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think a lot of us in this space, like we've all been in social for a long time.
2
SPEAKER_01
We all built our careers in it.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think what is maybe hard to understand, unless you kind of were back at the beginning, is I'm guessing for you, I know this is true for me and Trent,
2
SPEAKER_01
 we sort of, almost like a comedian working out a joke at the local bar, we worked out our bigger form content in social posts.
2
SPEAKER_01
So you would sort of like have an idea and you'd put it out there.
2
SPEAKER_01
You'd throw it out.
2
SPEAKER_01
You didn't give it a ton of thought.
2
SPEAKER_01
You'd just be like, here's this thought.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And then based on the feedback, maybe you'd have a dialogue with your community or something would like go wild.
2
SPEAKER_01
You were like, whoa, I wasn't expecting that to go viral.
2
SPEAKER_01
It was sort of how we learned what to do longer form or what to like evolve and make bigger.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that doesn't feel like it is a possibility anymore.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don't know if you feel like that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
First of all, when we, when we first started, like,
2
SPEAKER_00
 you didn't know, you didn't try, you don't try to make something go viral.
2
SPEAKER_00
You just, you just, you create something that you really value and believe in and you like and you enjoy and it's, and you put it out there and then you see the feedback and then people like it or, you know, whatever, they don't like it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And to me it was always,
2
SPEAKER_00
 you know, I was always looking out for like, where's the positive energy?
2
SPEAKER_00
Where's the positive comments?
2
SPEAKER_00
Because I'm trying to put, so my intent was positive.
2
SPEAKER_00
And when the impact was positive, more than critical or like, oh, we don't like your hair or you pronounce words weird or, you know, you don't know what you're talking about.
2
SPEAKER_00
Who are you?
2
SPEAKER_00
Like when it was that kind of stuff, I was like, all right, well, I'm going to keep trying my best.
2
SPEAKER_00
 with my intent and hope.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think that now I'm trying to do that more and more.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think what I've, and you've said this, and this is where I think we're aligned on this, is I've gone from living a life where all that mattered to me growing up was being educated because that's how I was raised.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I was very fortunate enough to go to great educational institutions and none of them were paid for it.
2
SPEAKER_00
They were just exam-based and study-based and academic.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then I went off and lived as a monk.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And that was completely the opposite, because I gave up all my job offers and work, and then I was a monk for three years.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then I've left, went back into the world of business, and then now married and an entrepreneur and everything else.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I feel the most myself today with my hair like this, because we're joking about it, my hair like this, wearing the clothes that I wear, living in the way.
2
SPEAKER_00
I feel the most myself today.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And there's a bit of monk in there.
2
SPEAKER_00
There's a bit of management in there.
2
SPEAKER_00
There's a bit of business in there.
2
SPEAKER_00
There's a bit of academic in there.
2
SPEAKER_00
There's a bit of hopeless romantic in there, which I've always been my whole life.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that's who I am.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I just want to, I know that I struggle with having to choose because I don't want to choose it.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I'm trying, I think is the answer, to be more and more putting out all elements of myself.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And that can often be difficult for people because people go, well, Jay, you're the monk.
2
SPEAKER_00
How are you the entrepreneur?
2
SPEAKER_00
And I'm like, I used to be a monk and this is what I learned from being a monk that I practice today every day.
2
SPEAKER_00
But hey, this is what I love about entrepreneurship and business and strategy.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I love both.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I always say to people, like, you can't have strategy without sincerity and you can't have spirituality without strategy and you can't have
2
SPEAKER_00
 data without intuition, you need both.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I feel like I'm being forced sometimes to pick.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, Jay, are you going to be the monk or are you going to be this?
2
SPEAKER_00
And I'm like, well, I am.
2
SPEAKER_00
There are parts of me that are still monk-like.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm not a monk, of course, I'm married.
2
SPEAKER_00
There are parts of me that are, I always say, you can think like a monk and not live like a monk.
2
SPEAKER_00
There are parts of me that still think like a monk, but there are parts of me that think like an entrepreneur and think like a strategist.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And that makes me happy and I feel fulfilled and I feel real honest to myself.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I don't know if that even answers your question, but I'm allowing myself to be like, it's what you're saying.
2
SPEAKER_00
If I want to, and I'm not going to do this, don't worry anyone.
2
SPEAKER_00
If I wanted to be an athlete, like a soccer player, which has always been my number one love in terms of sport,
2
SPEAKER_00
 I want to go and be a soccer player.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like I'm going to try.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm not going to try, but I'm going to try because if that's what I want to be and express myself in that way, then why not?
2
SPEAKER_00
So anyway, I've got to a point where I don't want to limit myself as to how I express myself.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I'm trying to reconnect with that.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm trying to be comfortable with that.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it's uncomfortable because often you feel forced and squashed.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And I think that people feel that, even outside of social, they definitely feel that in their very real lives, that it's sort of like, well, you're- You're an accountant.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
You're a lawyer.
2
SPEAKER_01
Why do you think you can also play guitar?
2
SPEAKER_01
And the reality is that the most beautiful versions of ourselves are their whole.
2
SPEAKER_01
They're many parts of us.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's not just this sort of one area.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I do think that there is this
2
SPEAKER_01
 desire on social or this thing that comes through, and this exists with the community and it also exists with the algorithm, frankly, that they want you to stay in your lane.
2
SPEAKER_01
They want you, oh, but you're, like if you and I put something on social and we're using words that the algorithm is used to seeing us use, that's going to get shown to more people than if you're talking about
2
SPEAKER_01
 Work or business or whatever.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so there's all of these things that, again, it's these points of tension of, yeah, you could be really happy.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like I could keep writing Girl, Wash Your Face over and over and over and make a crap ton of money and have that be my life forever.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And there are people who do that and that's amazing and awesome.
2
SPEAKER_01
But because I started and writing was never supposed to be my job, I never want it to be about what is going to make the most money or what is the box that I can check.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, my last book
2
SPEAKER_01
 was, I mean, you know, God bless the publisher was like, okay, you want to write a book about grief and pain when I'm known for writing things that are funny.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so it's like, you're going to come out of nowhere with this book about all of these hard things.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that book did nothing compared to what the two books before it did.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I would rather, um,
2
SPEAKER_01
 Oh, Casey Musgraves has this great line in one of her songs where she says, I'd rather lose for who I am than win for who I ain't.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, I'd rather get it wrong in your eyes, but I showed up as myself, than keep doing the thing that the world wants me to do.
2
SPEAKER_01
 So I love that.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think that as a fan of yours, and I think like anybody in your community, like you want to see the whole, you want to see all the parts of it, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Like the people we admire, really, we want to see all of who they are as a person, not just like, what's the PR spin on your life.
2
SPEAKER_00
And my biggest thing of that is like, I think when you allow yourself to have that opportunity, you allow others in your life,
2
SPEAKER_00
 And when you allow others to have that opportunity, you allow yourself.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think the more, you know, does that make sense?
2
SPEAKER_00
Usually what happens is we project.
2
SPEAKER_00
So if we feel we're not allowed to be all of ourselves, we don't let anyone, including our kids.
2
SPEAKER_00
And by the way, this doesn't just transfer over to your partner or a friend or someone who follows you on social media.
2
SPEAKER_00
It transfers over to everyone in your life because you can't suddenly not live a value.
2
SPEAKER_00
 You either live a value and it transfers and cascades all over your life, or you don't live a value and it doesn't cascade.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so if you live the value that I don't allow myself to be fully myself, you're not going to let your wife, your husband, your partner, your kids, your parents, your aunts, uncles, whoever it is, be themselves fully.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Or alternatively, if you go around saying, well, that person is that person and they're not that, you're then blocking your own self from being two things.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think that's where, that's what it always hits me by.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm like, me and my friend were talking yesterday and we were having a very frank and honest conversation about
2
SPEAKER_00
 another one of our mutual friends who's struggling.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it was so easy because those conversations so often roll into judgment and criticism and feeling holier than thou and like, oh, at least we don't have that problem.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it's crazy because you can do that by people you know.
2
SPEAKER_00
And me and him just sat down and I said, look, what I want to do actually to grow this conversation, and you said a value is growth.
2
SPEAKER_00
I said, I just want to talk about all my flaws right now.
2
SPEAKER_00
 in this area.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because I was like, only if we do that, will I not walk away from this conversation thinking I'm better.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because if I think I'm better, guess what?
2
SPEAKER_00
I don't have to become or grow anymore.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because I already think I made it just by talking about someone.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so we spent the rest of the conversation really talking about our own challenges and impediments and flaws in that particular area we were discussing.
2
SPEAKER_00
We just realized, I was like,
2
SPEAKER_00
 I'm just, that person just doesn't know about my flaws, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, I think this too with kids is it has always been so important for me as a mom to give my kids autonomy over themselves.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like they can wear whatever they want.
2
SPEAKER_00
They're so fun to watch.
2
SPEAKER_00
They show up, they are.
2
SPEAKER_00
They are so fun to watch.
2
SPEAKER_00
They are so, I have to say.
2
SPEAKER_00
They're good.
2
SPEAKER_00
They're good kids.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, they're good.
2
SPEAKER_00
They're adorable, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like my oldest is in middle school and he is so himself.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like he wore a,
2
SPEAKER_01
 revolutionary wig to his school pictures.
2
SPEAKER_01
He like shops at the Goodwill and like wears funny tee.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I just never had that kind of confidence at 14 years old.
2
SPEAKER_01
He's so himself.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I was really conscious of that
2
SPEAKER_01
 I wanted it for them, but mostly I felt like if they had autonomy over who they were, they would give it to others.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I didn't, I grew up in a really religious, yeah, like I grew up in a really religious home and environment and city.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it was very much like, we know the right way to be.
2
SPEAKER_01
And if you're not this way, you're wrong.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I just never wanted my kids to have that.
2
SPEAKER_01
I want them to believe that everybody is,
2
SPEAKER_01
 valuable and good and cool and has potential and gets to do and be whoever they are.
2
SPEAKER_01
Um, so yeah, I love when he was like, can I get a wig for, I was like, yes, every year this should just be the thing, man, like, let's go.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that starts there with wigs and autonomy and then leads to forgiveness.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like if I can forgive myself, I'm more likely to forgive others.
2
SPEAKER_00
If I forgive others, I'm more likely to forgive myself.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that just becomes a value of life.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think that,
2
SPEAKER_00
 The mind always wants to like pick holes and do this and do that.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it's like, but we do the same with ourselves.
2
SPEAKER_00
That's why we all judge ourselves so much.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, to be totally honest, I was brutally hard on myself when that happened.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like I was maybe the lowest I've ever been in my adult life, for real.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And I, because I just felt so ashamed.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like I, I can't imagine hurting someone like, you know, you know how much this work takes and how hard this is and showing up and doing all this, these things with the intention of putting goodness out into the world and positivity.
2
SPEAKER_01
And the worst for me was feeling like,
2
SPEAKER_01
 I've worked so hard to create a safe space for my community and having people who felt like it wasn't safe anymore.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like because I showed up in a way that was different than what felt safe or right to them.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I just was, I was devastated.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was heartbroken.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And I spent, for real, like a few weeks just like wallowing.
2
SPEAKER_01
There's no other way to say it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was just wallowing in misery and so ashamed, so mad at myself.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then one day I was like, this is not helpful.
2
SPEAKER_01
This is not helping anybody.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like you're just feeding into your own narrative.
2
SPEAKER_01
You're feeling sorry for yourself.
2
SPEAKER_01
You're like spinning out.
2
SPEAKER_01
You're all of this.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so you have to own, yes, like in life sometimes you will make a mistake.
2
SPEAKER_01
 you will hurt someone else.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like you have to own this and you have to hold space for this and you have to learn from this experience or it was all wasted.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like it was all for nothing.
2
SPEAKER_01
All of this pain, all of these people that you hurt, this way that you felt, embarrassing your kids, embarrassing your best friends, like all of this stuff.
2
SPEAKER_01
You have to hold this and learn from it or it was for nothing.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it took, I mean, I just, I want to say that because I don't want anyone to think like, oh, you flip a switch and then you're fine.
2
SPEAKER_01
That's why I was talking earlier about transitions for me are about allowing myself to feel it.
2
SPEAKER_01
 Yeah, I needed a few weeks to like be a weenie and then I had to like, okay, time to grow, like time to learn.
2
SPEAKER_00
That's what you're saying, that that level of like sitting in the pain is all proportionate to how big you think the impact ended up being on others, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Like it's like if something has massively impacted others,
2
SPEAKER_00
 it is going to take a deeper, longer process of reflection to grow through.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so it's in proportion to the impact.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think in those situations, I don't know if you've ever gone through something like this, everybody wants like, what are you going to say?
2
SPEAKER_01
Or what's the statement?
2
SPEAKER_01
Or make a podcast or whatever.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I just, I kept telling everyone like,
2
SPEAKER_01
 it would be disingenuous.
2
SPEAKER_01
It would be- At the time.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like if I don't actually learn from that, I can't show you what you need to see, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Like I can write a perfectly appropriate response, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
We can all do that.
2
SPEAKER_01
We can write the thing and put it out in the world or
2
SPEAKER_01
 I can actually learn.
2
SPEAKER_01
I can actually grow.
2
SPEAKER_01
And you can see, I hope, the evolution as I continue to grow as a woman and a sister and a friend and a mama.
2
SPEAKER_01
I want you to see through action who I am, not because I just really quickly gave you the answer
2
SPEAKER_01
 I just, yeah, so it was not a fast process and it did involve a lot of self like, yeah, you're going to have to forgive yourself because you're never going to get better in this.
2
SPEAKER_01
And if you don't.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Yeah, no, I think that's what happens, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
It's like the world's forcing us to provide an answer, but it's actually the behavior that is what we're working on.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that's always what I've found.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like for me, it's always been about like, well, what do I need to change?
2
SPEAKER_00
What do I need to figure out?
2
SPEAKER_00
That's always been my focus because that's what actually is what the universe is trying to tell me to do.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, it's sort of that, there's some quote and I don't know who said it and I'm going to butcher this one too, but it's essentially like,
2
SPEAKER_01
 An apology without action or an apology without change is empty.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's not real.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you have someone in your life who is, I think we do this in relationships all the time, they say they're sorry.
2
SPEAKER_01
I'm sorry that I did this thing, but there's no change.
2
SPEAKER_01
Then it's not actually real.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And I think it's a really powerful thing to process, whether you're guiding your kids through an issue with their friends or you're dealing with this in your marriage or whatever it looks like.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you continue to do the same thing that someone has said, this is hurting me,
2
SPEAKER_01
 Like, I'm going to continue to make mistakes.
2
SPEAKER_01
In my life, of course, I'm going to continue to make mistakes because I'm going to keep trying.
2
SPEAKER_01
And if you're continuing to try, you're going to continue to make mistakes.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's just what it is.
2
SPEAKER_01
But if you've told someone, like if my community says to me, Rachel, you said this thing and this was hurtful.
2
SPEAKER_01
 and this made us feel these ways, and I don't change based on that, then I was never really sorry.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you told your partner that when they lose their temper, or they do these things, or they have too much to drink, or they're smoking, or whatever, and that it is hurtful to you, and it's sincere, and you have a conversation, and they say they're sorry, and they keep doing it again, and again, and again, it's not a real apology.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I do think that there's something
2
SPEAKER_01
 that we need to hold on to of like, what does it look like in our lives to actually make change based on what we said or who we said we didn't want to be?
2
SPEAKER_01
Like it's as important to know who you don't want to be as this person that you do want to reach for.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
I remember I started in my spiritual community, I started, uh, mentoring young men quite early on and,
2
SPEAKER_00
 I remember saying to all of them, and I still say this to people when I coach them today or when I work with people, one of the first things I say to them after we've agreed to work together or connect is always, just know that I will let you down.
2
SPEAKER_00
And they'll always just, it was really useful to me to see their response.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I'll say, I will let you down, not because I don't care, not because I don't love you, not because I don't want you to be your best, not because I want that to happen, but because I'm human.
2
SPEAKER_00
That will happen.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And if you're okay with that, then this is real.
2
SPEAKER_03
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
But if you have some other expectation, then this is actually not going to work.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it's been really interesting to me.
2
SPEAKER_00
I remember when I first used to say that, I was probably like 22 or something.
2
SPEAKER_00
And there were some people who changed their mind about me being their mentor based on that.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I used to be like, this is great.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, because now we know.
2
SPEAKER_00
 At least we're both safe.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like they're safe now because I've told them the reality of it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I'm safe now because I feel, and so that's always been my approach to it is just, just being okay with that and putting it out there and just, you know, not having any other false expectations.
2
SPEAKER_01
I'm curious.
2
SPEAKER_01
 I have just a question for you.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was curious as you were talking about that, because I know you do mentor and you coach a lot, and that mixed with what you're doing in the wider community, on social and with videos and podcasts and all of it.
2
SPEAKER_01
How do you maintain your own energy in the midst of giving so much to other people?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that's a great question.
2
SPEAKER_00
 You're like, it's a million dollar question.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, no, no.
2
SPEAKER_00
As in, this is the obvious answer, but it's true and it's ongoing, like it's every day, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
So me and my wife had a conversation this weekend and she was just like to me, and my wife's great at this, and she was just like, I think you need to recommit to these practices, like to do them deeper, to do them better.
2
SPEAKER_00
And my ego was just like, all right.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Like, you know, you want to just, you just want to be like, well, I do all this and I do this.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I was just like, nope, take it seriously.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then I recommitted to certain practices and behaviors that I may not have been doing with as much depth.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I feel so much better for it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so I think having a wife that is
2
SPEAKER_00
 really grounded and rooted is huge.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so that's just a blessing and I lucked out, but having that is so important.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think another thing for me, which is probably like the biggest thing is, I still speak a lot to my monk mentors and they are just so not interested in anything I do externally.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And I remember one of my monk teachers, he asked me a question.
2
SPEAKER_00
He said, what are you up to?
2
SPEAKER_00
This was probably about, I don't know, maybe like three years ago.
2
SPEAKER_00
And he was like, well, what are you doing?
2
SPEAKER_00
And so I gave him a long list of all the cool stuff I was doing.
2
SPEAKER_00
And he said something really powerful to me.
2
SPEAKER_00
He said, for all of this, I have no expectation.
2
SPEAKER_00
And he said, I have no expectation for what you do in all of this.
2
SPEAKER_00
He goes, I simply demand the purity of your heart.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And it was just like, it was one of those moments where like my heart sank, like, and, and it was like a punch in the gut.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I was just like.
2
SPEAKER_00
 but it's so much easier to give you all this.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, it's so much easier to offer all of this.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think that happens in relationships.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think at least the men that I know are always thinking, oh, but I'm doing all of this.
2
SPEAKER_00
And their partner's just like, but I just want to feel loved.
2
SPEAKER_00
I want to feel seen.
2
SPEAKER_00
I want to feel heard.
2
SPEAKER_00
And the men in my life and me, it's very easy to be like, no, but we're doing all of this.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so you want to be the magician because that's actually easier.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, it's actually easier to do that than do this.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Having my monk teachers in my life has been a really great one because they're just so oblivious to everything and so above and beyond all of this world that they're just a good reminder.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think like you're right, failures and mistakes keep you on the path.
2
SPEAKER_00
So they're another one, like that's partly why they're there.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And I really spend a lot of time alone.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like I really, that's my biggest one for regenerating energy.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think people find it uncomfortable because, and I'm really honest with you, I have a friend staying with me right now who opened the door for you, by the way.
2
SPEAKER_00
And he's such a sweet guy.
2
SPEAKER_01
He's been one of- Do you only allow beautiful people around you, by the way?
2
SPEAKER_01
Because between you and your wife and that guy who opened the door, I was like, what is happening?
2
SPEAKER_00
He's my wife's best, they basically grew up together.
2
SPEAKER_00
Their moms are best friends.
2
SPEAKER_00
And when he's in LA, he stays with us.
2
SPEAKER_00
 But he's been trying to get us to, so he's always like, can you come visit me?
2
SPEAKER_00
Can you come do this?
2
SPEAKER_00
And I'm always honest with him because he's such a close friend and he lives with us when he's in LA.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I spend plenty of time with him, but I'm always just like, I can't because if I got that time that you want me to come and spend with you, I'm going to take that for myself.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And it's so awkward and uncomfortable to say it to people, but I've got so used to it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Today I got a message from someone and they were just like, I'd love to spend more time with you.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I messaged them back saying, I would too, but my schedule just won't allow it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And when it does, I'll reach out.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I know you do this.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it's like, I really love time alone and I crave it and I seek it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it's such a big part of my DNA that I recharge alone.
2
SPEAKER_00
I can't recharge around people.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And when y'all started dating, were you really upfront with her about that?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
I feel like that's so important because it's like, you're establishing those boundaries in the beginning.
2
SPEAKER_01
So there is an expectation of, okay, I'm the same way.
2
SPEAKER_01
I love being alone.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so does my, I don't know why I'm referencing up the ceiling.
2
SPEAKER_01
So does my boyfriend, like he also really likes it.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that was one of the first conversations we had was sort of like,
2
SPEAKER_01
 We're going to love this time together and we're going to be really honest about when we do need to decompress.
2
SPEAKER_01
And there are definitely times where he'll have come back from a trip and I want to like tackle him immediately.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he'll be like, I need a day.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it like, I'm sad because I want to see him, but I also totally respect and get it.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that was something that we established from the very beginning.
2
SPEAKER_01
Is that like when you're coaching people, do you ever,
2
SPEAKER_01
 give advice on if you've never established a boundary and maybe it's being alone or whatever it looks like for you.
2
SPEAKER_01
How do you establish a boundary when you haven't done it before with someone?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think it's exactly what you just said.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like it is just a status update.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like it is like saying like this is a new thing for me.
2
SPEAKER_00
And by the way, it doesn't mean I love you less.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's saying what it doesn't mean.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
As much as what it means to you.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think the mistake we do, we say,
2
SPEAKER_00
 This means so much to me.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
I want you to value it because it's important to me.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
And we negate how it is important to them.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
So if we say, oh, how it's relevant to them.
2
SPEAKER_00
So if I had a new update for Radhi, and Radhi had a new update for me actually today, but if I had a new update for her, I would say to her, Radhi, I have this new update and I just want you to know, this does not mean I don't love you.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
This does not mean I don't care for you.
2
SPEAKER_00
It doesn't mean that I don't love spending time with you.
2
SPEAKER_00
It just means I'm exhausted.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_03
 Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
And that helps someone rather than saying, you know what, I'm so overworked and I've been doing so much that I need this time.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_05
And that person's going, oh, so you'd rather have that time than time with me.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_05
And that's what they're thinking.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
And so you can help the person with their thought process.
3
SPEAKER_05
 by answering all their unsaid questions without them saying it.
3
SPEAKER_05
Obviously, it doesn't always work out that perfectly.
3
SPEAKER_05
But I think that it's a status update and you can change.
3
SPEAKER_05
I think at the beginning of lockdown, Radhi and I had completely different expectations than we've ever had before.
3
SPEAKER_05
 Because we've never lived together for this long in one place.
3
SPEAKER_05
And so we had to set new boundaries about cleanliness, about chores, about housekeeping, all that kind of stuff that we haven't had to do for a long time because we're always moving around.
3
SPEAKER_05
And so I think every time there's a change or a transition or a point of tension, it's because you haven't made someone aware
3
SPEAKER_05
 of your new priority.
3
SPEAKER_05
Right.
3
SPEAKER_05
And how it affects them.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
It's the same as us doing things like going on tour or writing a book.
3
SPEAKER_05
Like I always preempt, I'll always say to, we've been talking about, like we haven't seen our family for a long time.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
And so we've been trying to go back to London and me and Radhi have been talking about it.
3
SPEAKER_05
And I was like, but if we go back then.
3
SPEAKER_05
 we have this priority and so we're thinking ahead and I'm like, just so you know, this is what we plan to do in September.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
I just don't think there's any substitute for being honest up front and resetting your actual needs.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_05
As opposed to pretending.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
That yeah, that's fine.
3
SPEAKER_05
 And then expecting the person to know you're stressed out and then figure it out.
3
SPEAKER_02
Right.
3
SPEAKER_05
And that's a long answer to a short question.
3
SPEAKER_02
No, and I think it's a, it's sort of like a habit or a muscle to build like anything else that if you haven't done it before, it is really hard to learn to say no and to allow yourself to frustrate people or have them be disappointed or maybe even hurt their feelings unintentionally.
3
SPEAKER_02
 because you need to hold that space for yourself.
3
SPEAKER_02
Because I am so with you, if you are doing something where you're serving other people, you're around a lot of other energy or however that is, you have to have that time where you go sort of refill in whatever way makes the most sense for you.
3
SPEAKER_02
Totally.
3
SPEAKER_02
Because I think that other people will,
3
SPEAKER_02
 We see life as we are, not as it actually is.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so even what I think of is like, when I'm going through a hard season, if I'm going through grief or when I went through the divorce, anytime I'm going through something hard, I want to be alone.
3
SPEAKER_02
I do not want to be around it.
3
SPEAKER_02
It is how I process.
3
SPEAKER_02
 And I have girlfriends who they process grief or pain in groups.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so all they want to do in the world is bring me soup or wine or sit with me or talk it out.
3
SPEAKER_02
And it is so hard to navigate.
3
SPEAKER_02
 they're really trying to love you well, and they're trying to love you in the way that makes sense to them, and having to be so clear about, thank you, and I love you, and I promise you I'm going to call when I'm ready, but this is how I need to handle these things.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_02
And you are allowed to do those
3
SPEAKER_02
 processes exactly how it works for you.
3
SPEAKER_02
And it's not selfish.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I think that that's what is put on most of us is that you wanting time alone away from your wife or me wanting time alone away from my kids, that that would be a selfish choice because you're not showing up for those other people.
3
SPEAKER_02
When the reality is none of us can serve those we love well if we're depleted.
3
SPEAKER_05
 Totally.
3
SPEAKER_05
And I also want to give my best to people.
3
SPEAKER_05
So you're just exhausted and drained.
3
SPEAKER_05
I think about it like Gary Chapman's love languages.
3
SPEAKER_05
It's almost like this is pain languages.
3
SPEAKER_05
Like, how do you process pain?
3
SPEAKER_05
And I know that if we're having an argument, Radhi will want to have space and time to reflect.
3
SPEAKER_05
And I want to talk it out.
3
SPEAKER_05
 Like I'm like, all right, let's figure this out.
3
SPEAKER_03
Let's figure this out.
3
SPEAKER_05
And she's like, I just don't want to, I need to just think about it.
3
SPEAKER_05
Like I just need to reflect and think, otherwise I'm going to say something I don't want to say and whatever it is.
3
SPEAKER_05
And it took me a while to realize that that wasn't because she didn't care.
3
SPEAKER_05
I'd always be like, you don't want to talk about it because you don't care as much as I do.
3
SPEAKER_05
And that's the problem.
3
SPEAKER_05
You see it as a sign of care.
3
SPEAKER_05
I go, oh, just because you don't want to talk about it right now, that means you don't care about this relationship as much as I do.
3
SPEAKER_05
 This is not true.
3
SPEAKER_05
You care about it as much as I do.
3
SPEAKER_02
That's why you don't want to talk about it.
3
SPEAKER_02
That's why you're being intentional.
3
SPEAKER_02
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_02
What is your love language, by the way?
3
SPEAKER_05
My love language is, okay, so it's adapted and I've talked about this.
3
SPEAKER_05
So my top love language, and I realized it was from when I was growing up, was gift.
3
SPEAKER_05
And it was because my mom, we didn't have a lot, but when we were growing up on my birthday, my mom would always get me the one gift that I'd always wanted all year.
3
SPEAKER_05
 and it was such a big moment, and she'd always surprise me.
3
SPEAKER_05
But here's where it got interesting.
3
SPEAKER_05
I realized that the value was not gifts, it was surprises.
3
SPEAKER_05
It wasn't the actual thing.
3
SPEAKER_05
It was the feeling that someone had thought about me in disguise and then made me feel special.
3
SPEAKER_05
So it was surprise.
3
SPEAKER_05
I put surprise at the top, but it's gifts in the five.
3
SPEAKER_05
And then the other one has always been words of affirmation.
3
SPEAKER_05
I think words of affirmation is huge for me.
3
SPEAKER_05
 It took me ages for my ego to admit that.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
Because it felt so like, oh, that's so lame.
3
SPEAKER_05
Like, I want to be told, like, how.
3
SPEAKER_05
And I was like, no, I actually really like to be told by the people I love how I make them feel.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yes, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
And that's great, like, because I'm good at giving words of affirmation too, and I want that.
3
SPEAKER_05
So those are my top two.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I love that.
3
SPEAKER_02
How about yours?
3
SPEAKER_02
So it's interesting.
3
SPEAKER_02
Mine was words of affirmation forever.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then, however this sounds, but when my career really exploded beginning of 2018,
3
SPEAKER_02
 All I got were words.
3
SPEAKER_05
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so it sort of stopped having meaning.
3
SPEAKER_05
I agree.
3
SPEAKER_02
That makes sense.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so my number one now is acts of service.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like if you bring me a cup of coffee, if you, you know,
3
SPEAKER_02
 help with the dish.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like if you just do something that's really helpful, that is, it just makes me feel so taken care of and loved and appreciated.
3
SPEAKER_02
I just, that's, that's a big one for me.
3
SPEAKER_02
And interestingly, um, when I first went on, like when I first started hanging out with the guy, um, I was explaining to him what, what love languages were cause he'd never heard of it.
3
SPEAKER_02
Cause you know me, I don't know if you do this, but I'm like, what's your Enneagram number?
3
SPEAKER_02
I need to know everything.
3
SPEAKER_02
 Yeah, I'm a 3.
3
SPEAKER_02
Oh, I'm a 3 too.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I thought so.
3
SPEAKER_02
Are you a 3-4 or 3-2?
3
SPEAKER_02
I'm a 3-2.
3
SPEAKER_02
Okay, that's interesting.
3
SPEAKER_02
I'm a 3-4.
3
SPEAKER_02
So we're walking and I'm trying to explain all these things and with love languages, you don't need to take a test.
3
SPEAKER_01
You can tell someone and they're like, I'm that.
3
SPEAKER_02
 So he's like, oh, I'm words of affirmation.
3
SPEAKER_02
So I'm thinking, great.
3
SPEAKER_02
That feels whatever.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then as every time we would hang out, he would be like, oh, I saw this and I thought of you.
3
SPEAKER_02
Or like, oh, you said you like this kind of coffee or whatever.
3
SPEAKER_02
Every time he'd show up at my house with just some little thing.
3
SPEAKER_02
 And I was like, no, you're gifts.
3
SPEAKER_02
You're not words.
3
SPEAKER_02
You're gifts.
3
SPEAKER_02
Cause he just did it always.
3
SPEAKER_02
And on a random whatever, I like showed up at his house one day with coffee and he acted like I had brought him a million dollars.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, oh, you're gifts.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, buddy, this is actually what you care.
3
SPEAKER_02
So here's how it, but it's just such a powerful tool for friends or even members of your team to understand how to like love them well and lead them well.
3
SPEAKER_05
 And doing it for pain too.
3
SPEAKER_05
That's why I think we've uncovered what you're saying today, like knowing that, oh, when we're in pain, Rachel needs space, but Rachel's friends need to talk in a group.
3
SPEAKER_05
And this friend needs two friends.
3
SPEAKER_05
This friend needs drinks and a party and 10 friends.
3
SPEAKER_02
Distraction or whatever.
3
SPEAKER_02
Whatever it is.
3
SPEAKER_05
And like, we judge how we process pain and how we want to be loved.
3
SPEAKER_05
And it's not selfish.
3
SPEAKER_05
It's real.
3
SPEAKER_05
And so, yeah, I'm really glad that we stumbled upon that because
3
SPEAKER_02
 It's a good one.
3
SPEAKER_02
Maybe that's your next book.
3
SPEAKER_05
Pain languages.
3
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
No, I don't.
3
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
It's just, I do think there's something about learning how people process pain and being okay with how they want to do it, which is beautiful.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
And not making that process, not making their process of pain about you.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_02
 Because we do do that all the time.
3
SPEAKER_02
It's like you were saying earlier about someone wanting space or someone asking to hold a boundary and you somehow making that about them and what you need in this process.
3
SPEAKER_02
Or I think this a lot in a new relationship because my, do you know about attachment?
3
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_02
 I'm Anxious Attachment.
3
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, it's avoidant, anxious, and whatever's just like chill.
3
SPEAKER_05
The positive one, the good one, the neutral.
3
SPEAKER_02
Right.
3
SPEAKER_05
There's one more that's meant to be the positive.
3
SPEAKER_02
It's like healthy.
3
SPEAKER_02
I don't know what it's called.
3
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, there's one that's meant to be the good one.
3
SPEAKER_05
Right.
3
SPEAKER_05
We know the ones that don't because I'm avoidant.
3
SPEAKER_02
I'm anxious.
3
SPEAKER_02
And he's like, whatever the chill one is, he's just like chill and happy and fine.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I'm anxious about everything.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I do, if you don't know what we're talking about, you're listening to this, you got to look it up.
3
SPEAKER_02
There's a great book called
3
SPEAKER_02
 I think it's called The Attachment Star.
3
SPEAKER_02
Or Attached.
3
SPEAKER_03
Attached.
3
SPEAKER_02
So good, fast read, and it just will really be helpful for you.
3
SPEAKER_02
He would do something or ask for something and I would be like, oh, he doesn't like me anymore.
3
SPEAKER_02
I said something stupid, whatever.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so what's really helpful for me when I'm having those moments, or just I think this in life, is just to ask like,
3
SPEAKER_02
 Act as if or give the benefit of the doubt or what if what they're saying is actually totally truthful.
3
SPEAKER_02
Now, certainly there are times in life where we're interacting with someone and our intuition is telling us this is not a good person.
3
SPEAKER_02
There's something wrong here.
3
SPEAKER_02
You need to listen to that.
3
SPEAKER_02
But I do think when it's sort of my mind running away with me,
3
SPEAKER_02
 that it has been so helpful to just, hey, Rach, act as if this person is good and honest and mature and has done a lot of therapy and is literally just telling you what they need instead of playing games with you.
3
SPEAKER_02
Because you have no reason to believe otherwise.
3
SPEAKER_02
And that can shut off my anxiety about that moment or me making it about me that fast.
3
SPEAKER_02
Because I'm like, oh, yeah, you're being ridiculous.
3
SPEAKER_02
Knock it off.
3
SPEAKER_05
 Yeah, no, I think there are certain things like the love languages attached, the attachment styles.
3
SPEAKER_05
Like if you know them in an early stage in a relationship for you and your partner, it can save you so much time and effort.
3
SPEAKER_05
And unfortunately we feel geeky or cheesy or lame to talk about these things, but it's like, that's actually what's going to help.
3
SPEAKER_05
Because if you know your partner,
3
SPEAKER_05
 as an anxious attachment style, you're now going to be more conscious of that.
3
SPEAKER_05
You're going to know how to behave with them and speak to them in their language in a way that's going to help them feel secure.
3
SPEAKER_05
I think it's called secure.
3
SPEAKER_02
 No, I think it's called attached.
3
SPEAKER_02
No, no, no.
3
SPEAKER_05
No, I think it's called the secure attachment style.
3
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
I think it's attached, avoidant and secure.
3
SPEAKER_05
I think that's the word.
3
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yes, you are correct.
3
SPEAKER_02
I think that's the word.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
That's the third word, secure.
3
SPEAKER_05
Like, and, but that's the whole point, right?
3
SPEAKER_05
It's like, if you know that someone is an avoidant personality type, attachment type, you know how to make them feel more secure.
3
SPEAKER_05
Rather than being like, oh, they're just weird or they've got something wrong with them or, you know, all those terms.
3
SPEAKER_02
 Well, it's interesting.
3
SPEAKER_02
Have you ever, I don't know if this sort of falls into your realm.
3
SPEAKER_05
I feel like we read all the same books.
3
SPEAKER_02
Do you know, is it Tim Grover?
3
SPEAKER_05
Tim Grover.
3
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
 So I am not into sports, but I love understanding how athletes at the highest level function.
3
SPEAKER_02
I'm just fascinated by it.
3
SPEAKER_02
Don't know anything about football.
3
SPEAKER_05
It is another level.
3
SPEAKER_02
Right.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like Tom Brady.
3
SPEAKER_02
Right.
3
SPEAKER_02
I don't, so if people, I don't know anything about football, but how in the world at his age
3
SPEAKER_02
 And even more importantly and more impressive to me is how can you have won that much and still have the drive to keep winning?
3
SPEAKER_02
Like I'm- I'm with a new team.
3
SPEAKER_02
Oh my gosh.
3
SPEAKER_02
A new group of people.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like fascinated by what it takes.
3
SPEAKER_02
Because I think if you've ever pushed to sort of a high level in your career, let's say, or maybe for an athlete or whatever, what you understand is that
3
SPEAKER_02
 staying at that level or even evolving past that level is a million times harder than it was to get there.
3
SPEAKER_02
It's so much more difficult because it takes like something other.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so I'm fascinated by Kobe or Michael Jordan or just Serena Williams, like how in the hell do they maintain?
3
SPEAKER_02
So I don't know if you'd like these books, because they're pretty intense, but I love Tim Grover's work.
3
SPEAKER_02
 I interviewed him the other day, and I was geeking out so hard.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I was telling him that the first time I read his first book, which is called Relentless, which is this relentless pursuit of excellence and trying so hard and whatever, it was like a out-of-body experience.
3
SPEAKER_02
I felt like I was reading
3
SPEAKER_02
 something I could have written.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I felt, I don't know if you've ever had a moment where you're reading something or listening and you're like, I thought I was the only one.
3
SPEAKER_02
And he was explaining things that I just had never, sort of this sounds terrible and someone can do therapy with me later, but like,
3
SPEAKER_02
 that I would achieve something, and maybe you have a bit of this as an achiever, but I would achieve something, and immediately, what's the next thing?
3
SPEAKER_02
That's done.
3
SPEAKER_02
We did it.
3
SPEAKER_02
What's the next thing?
3
SPEAKER_02
And so I was reading this book, and I loved it.
3
SPEAKER_02
It's the only time in my life I finished a book and immediately started it again.
3
SPEAKER_02
Wow.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I gave it to my ex-husband.
3
SPEAKER_02
 And we were married at the time.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I was like, this book explains me.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like, this is it.
3
SPEAKER_02
Read this book.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I was telling Tim that he, Dave read it.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I remember him looking up and looking at me like I was an alien.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like, what the hell?
3
SPEAKER_02
Like, what?
3
SPEAKER_02
 And that's nothing against Dave.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
But I was telling Tim this, like, oh, I felt seen.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then he read it and looked at me like I was an alien.
3
SPEAKER_02
And Tim was like, oh, that's actually way more a reflection of you.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
 And you being in a relationship where your partner didn't know who you actually were.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like that's way more telling about you than it is about him.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I, part of that is we got together so young and I just had evolved so much.
3
SPEAKER_02
You changed so much.
3
SPEAKER_05
I mean, you can't, like, I mean, you were, how old were you on your first date you said?
3
SPEAKER_02
I met him when I was 18.
3
SPEAKER_05
 Yeah, so it's like at 18 you really do not know who you are.
3
SPEAKER_02
No.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like no one.
3
SPEAKER_02
No.
3
SPEAKER_02
But I just thought that was so interesting of how many times in relationships.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
 your partner really sees you as who they think you are instead of who you actually are.
3
SPEAKER_02
And how much tension in a relationship happens because you're trying to be you and they think that you're actually this person.
3
SPEAKER_02
I don't know.
3
SPEAKER_02
I just, I thought that was so fascinating.
3
SPEAKER_05
Well, I think sometimes you're, and I'm so glad you brought this up and I want to read that book.
3
SPEAKER_05
I think sometimes you actually are becoming more of the version they think you are.
3
SPEAKER_05
 So you're, I think, in a relationship often, like, if your partner sees you as loving and caring and homemaking, you start becoming more of that to try and be who they love.
3
SPEAKER_05
And they do it back, and that's considered a good thing.
3
SPEAKER_05
But actually what ends up happening is there's a whole part of you that's being underserved.
3
SPEAKER_05
And then when they discover that, they're like, who are you?
3
SPEAKER_05
I don't even know who you are.
3
SPEAKER_05
And I can relate to that.
3
SPEAKER_05
So because I met
3
SPEAKER_05
 Me and Radhi met when I was 20, 21, but we started dating when I left being a monk, so I was 26.
3
SPEAKER_05
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_05
And so, but when I left being a monk, that's when I felt the most self-aware.
3
SPEAKER_05
So when I met Radhi, I was really clear.
3
SPEAKER_05
I was like, this is what I care about.
3
SPEAKER_05
My purpose comes first.
3
SPEAKER_05
 this is where what I and it wasn't about achievements like I didn't have like goals it was more just like this is who I am and I'm more likely to choose this over this if we had the choice yes and and I remember having all this and I have not changed a bit like I'm the exact same person and Radhi would testify to that we should be like yeah you're the same guy married just maybe on steroids a bit but but like you know you're the same person
3
SPEAKER_05
 And Radhi's actually changed more.
3
SPEAKER_05
So Radhi's changed more.
3
SPEAKER_05
When I met Radhi, she was very much like, she just wanted to be a homemaker.
3
SPEAKER_05
And now it's like, she's like got her career growing.
3
SPEAKER_05
She's doing really well.
3
SPEAKER_05
And it's, and I found that because I'm so
3
SPEAKER_05
 still and steady in my space, I'm able to appreciate and support.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
As opposed to feel threatened or scared or confused.
3
SPEAKER_03
Right.
3
SPEAKER_05
Or like you're not the person.
3
SPEAKER_03
Right.
3
SPEAKER_05
Because I'm seeing her go through what I went through back then.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_05
And I'm seeing her find herself.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
Which is actually so beautiful to watch, but it's only beautiful to watch if you're doing that yourself.
3
SPEAKER_02
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_05
And otherwise it's really scary because your world starts to change, right?
3
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_05
It's like your world's getting shaken.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_05
Because all of a sudden that person you thought was this,
3
SPEAKER_05
 is not that anymore.
3
SPEAKER_02
 And I know for women in my community especially, and I'm sure this happens with men, but I know with women, there's often this massive tension of they're beginning to change and evolve.
3
SPEAKER_02
And their partner, usually a man, is really struggling.
3
SPEAKER_02
And it's exactly what you're saying, because that man maybe hasn't gone through his own evolution.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so she begins to change, and he's terrified.
3
SPEAKER_02
So it's like, well, if you're going to change, are you going to change in such a way that you leave me behind?
3
SPEAKER_03
 Totally.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then it's sort of like holding on tighter and, you know, that honestly, that was a massive catalyst for why I'm not married today is, I mean, there's a million factors, obviously, but
3
SPEAKER_02
 he met an 18-year-old.
3
SPEAKER_02
And when we got married, when I was 20, I guess, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
I, all I wanted was to be his wife and to have babies and to, here's the home and I'm going to work, but obviously this is what it is.
3
SPEAKER_02
And that's sort of like who he signed on for.
3
SPEAKER_05
 Yes, that's what it is.
3
SPEAKER_02
And he was a massive cheerleader of mine and a dear friend and whatever, but it just kept shifting to such a place where it felt like
3
SPEAKER_02
 in order for this thing to work, I had to keep pretending to still be that woman.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I'm not like, she's gone.
3
SPEAKER_02
She's so far gone and I can like play that role and I would play that role.
3
SPEAKER_02
But then there was so much resentment there because I feel like I'm trying to fit into a certain box in order to accommodate the vision that you have of me.
3
SPEAKER_02
 And then when I step outside of that box or I do something that feels threatening, and it just is too much space to hold there.
3
SPEAKER_02
So it's interesting.
3
SPEAKER_02
One of the things I hope most for my kids, and this is maybe a random thing.
3
SPEAKER_02
 But I hope that they find the person that they want to partner with long term later in their life.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like I hope that they have that time to figure out who they are in a way that I really didn't.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I think is very common and definitely like in Southern culture and sort of how I grew up.
3
SPEAKER_02
Oh my gosh, heck yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
 Even in Indian culture.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so you are growing up together, but that can cause tension if sort of one of you is growing in a way that the other is not.
3
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
I'm so glad.
3
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
And I'm so happy that, like you said, like you've both, and you know, I, I love Dave and it's like, I'm so happy that you've both
3
SPEAKER_05
 seeing how this isn't a failure and your friendship and your connection for your kids.
3
SPEAKER_05
I think it's so beautiful to see that.
3
SPEAKER_05
And I'm glad that we need to stop seeing the end of things as failure.
3
SPEAKER_05
It's like, do you see the end of your favorite show as a failure?
3
SPEAKER_05
You don't.
3
SPEAKER_05
It's a celebration and there's nostalgia and you miss it.
3
SPEAKER_05
 But it wasn't a failure because the show ended.
3
SPEAKER_05
There's no show with never-ending seasons.
3
SPEAKER_05
There's shows that have eight seasons and four and 12.
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, also it's crazy to think that success is length of time.
3
SPEAKER_05
Oh, which is terrible.
3
SPEAKER_05
It's a terrible metric.
3
SPEAKER_02
We all know people who've been together for 25 years and they're miserable.
3
SPEAKER_05
Terrible metric for a relationship.
3
SPEAKER_02
Absolutely.
3
SPEAKER_05
And that's when Bill and Melinda divorced recently.
3
SPEAKER_02
 I don't know why I said that like I know them.
3
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, no, no, neither do I. I don't know them either.
3
SPEAKER_05
But when Melinda Gates said that, and this, you know, I'm, again, I'm not commenting on their anything else.
3
SPEAKER_05
I don't know them.
3
SPEAKER_05
I'm just commenting on this one statement.
3
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
She said that, you know, we realized we had nothing more to learn from each other.
3
SPEAKER_03
 Oh wow.
3
SPEAKER_03
And I was just like, I love that.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
I was like, what a great, and you know, it was like the picture that had been put up in the press was like a broken glass picture of their mouth.
3
SPEAKER_05
I was like, come on.
3
SPEAKER_05
That's actually a really good lesson.
3
SPEAKER_05
Like if we're not learning from each other, then we probably shouldn't be together.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
 And I don't know, I just, I love that you guys have found that way.
3
SPEAKER_05
And it makes me really happy as, you know, as a friend of both of yours and seeing that and just seeing how wonderful you all both are independently too.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I think like, it's so rad watching him in his new relationship, truly.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like from the beginning, I'm just like, hell yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like I think it would be really surprising to people how much we sort of talked about that or what it looks like.
3
SPEAKER_02
And to, I think there's something so beautiful about
3
SPEAKER_02
 him having someone who is meeting him as he is today, and because that's a gift for me in my life, this man met me right now, not 20 years ago me, but who I am right now today, this is who he's getting to meet, and the same for Dave, and having a girlfriend who's just like, you're the best, and this is awesome, and it's so cool to see him have someone who shares
3
SPEAKER_02
 his hobbies and the things that he's into, whatever, like, look at this, this is so great.
3
SPEAKER_02
So yeah, I just, I refuse to see it as something that's bad because I think, my God, it has been such a ride and we will be family for the rest of our lives.
3
SPEAKER_02
We have four kids, like we're a family.
3
SPEAKER_02
 We're about to have a crazy Thanksgiving with his girlfriend, all her family, we're figuring it out.
3
SPEAKER_02
And there's something beautiful about that process, but I don't think that's possible if you sort of see it all as this negative thing or it all went awry or it all went badly.
3
SPEAKER_02
 And it's not to say that it wasn't painful, and it's not to say it wasn't hard on our kids, and all of the things to navigate and figure out.
3
SPEAKER_02
But yeah, this was just what that chapter of our lives looked like.
3
SPEAKER_05
 Yeah, I love that.
3
SPEAKER_05
Rachel, I could talk to you for hours and hours and hours.
3
SPEAKER_05
I'm in love with this, but I'm going to lean into the final five.
3
SPEAKER_05
These are your rapid fire fast five rounds.
3
SPEAKER_03
Oh my gosh, okay.
3
SPEAKER_05
So you can only answer the questions with one word or one sentence maximum.
3
SPEAKER_03
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_05
One sentence is like 10 words.
3
SPEAKER_03
Okay, I'm going to try and do one word.
3
SPEAKER_05
I don't know what a definition is of a sentence, but Rachel Hollis, these are your final five.
3
SPEAKER_03
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_05
 I love the look on your face.
3
SPEAKER_02
We need a sound effect.
3
SPEAKER_05
But okay, question number one, what is the best advice you've ever received?
3
SPEAKER_02
 best advice I've ever received.
3
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_02
This was not given to me directly, but my favorite quote, and this is, I'm going to take his advice, was from Oprah.
3
SPEAKER_02
When I was a teenager, I saw her say this and I've thought it and lived it ever since.
3
SPEAKER_02
There is no such thing as luck.
3
SPEAKER_02
There is only preparation meeting opportunity at a moment in time.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I've spent my life preparing for those moments.
3
SPEAKER_05
That's beautiful.
3
SPEAKER_05
I love that.
3
SPEAKER_05
And it was so great to see you both on stage.
3
SPEAKER_05
So I love that.
3
SPEAKER_05
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_05
Question number two, what's the worst advice you've ever received?
3
SPEAKER_02
 I know exactly what it is.
3
SPEAKER_02
My mom always told me that if your husband doesn't get you what you want for Christmas, just tell him.
3
SPEAKER_02
If you want something, just buy the gift yourself.
3
SPEAKER_02
She would always just tell me, basically sort of saying you can fix him and kind of make him who you want to be.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I am conscious of this now because
3
SPEAKER_02
 I now know what it's like to date someone who gets you exactly as you are and that you don't have to explain anything to.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so I consider that really bad advice.
3
SPEAKER_02
You shouldn't try and mold someone to be who you want them to be.
3
SPEAKER_05
Beautiful.
3
SPEAKER_05
All right, question number three.
3
SPEAKER_05
How would you define in one sentence your current purpose?
3
SPEAKER_02
To make as many beautiful memories as possible with the people I love.
3
SPEAKER_05
I love that.
3
SPEAKER_05
That's a beautiful purpose.
3
SPEAKER_05
 All right, question number four, what's the next thing you're most excited to learn or what's something you're currently learning that's new to you and that's exciting?
3
SPEAKER_02
Letting go of my attachment to the outcome.
3
SPEAKER_02
That is a big one for me right now.
3
SPEAKER_05
That is a big one.
3
SPEAKER_05
We could talk about that a lot.
3
SPEAKER_05
Question number five, the fifth and final question is, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
3
SPEAKER_02
 We are not allowed to care about what other people think of us.
3
SPEAKER_02
I think that would change the world.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I think that if we could give that to our children, to not be concerned with other people's opinions, it would change everything.
3
SPEAKER_05
 Amazing.
3
SPEAKER_05
Rachel Hollis on On Purpose.
3
SPEAKER_05
Rachel, thank you so much for doing this.
3
SPEAKER_02
Oh my gosh, Jay, thank you.
3
SPEAKER_02
This was so much fun and we've talked for, God knows how long.
3
SPEAKER_05
I did not know what time it is.
3
SPEAKER_05
We've talked for such a long time.
3
SPEAKER_05
I did ask you when you walked in on that.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, my flight's not till four.
3
SPEAKER_05
But this has been amazing.
3
SPEAKER_05
We would love to see
3
SPEAKER_05
 There are so many incredible takeaways in this episode.
3
SPEAKER_05
I hope you're going to go back, make notes.
3
SPEAKER_05
Me and Rachel would love to see what stuck out to you.
3
SPEAKER_05
Please, please, please tag both of us on Instagram, on Twitter.
3
SPEAKER_05
Let us know what were the moments, what were the things that Rachel mentioned that are going to stay with you and that you're going to remember so that you can apply them into your own life.
3
SPEAKER_05
Rachel, thank you so much.
3
SPEAKER_05
Is there anything you'd like to share with anyone?
3
SPEAKER_02
 Oh my gosh, no, thank you.
3
SPEAKER_05
Everyone who's watching, please go follow Rachel on Instagram and across all social media platforms and find out more from The Hollis Company as well, so you can go to the website.
3
SPEAKER_05
We'll put all the links into the comments section.
3
SPEAKER_05
Rachel, thank you again for being on the show.
3
SPEAKER_03
Thanks, Jay, this was so fun.
3
SPEAKER_05
This will be the first of many.
3
SPEAKER_03
Yes, absolutely.
3
SPEAKER_05
Thank you.
3
SPEAKER_05
Thanks, everyone.
3
SPEAKER_06
 This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol.
3
SPEAKER_06
The joy they brought to the nation.
3
SPEAKER_03
You're free completely.
3
SPEAKER_03
No one is there to destroy you.
3
SPEAKER_06
The danger they endured.
3
SPEAKER_04
They said my head should be cut off.
3
SPEAKER_06
I'm John Legend.
3
SPEAKER_06
Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
3
SPEAKER_00
 Guess what, Will?
3
SPEAKER_00
What's that, Mango?
3
SPEAKER_00
I've been trying to write a promo for our podcast, Part-Time Genius, but even though we've done over 250 episodes, we don't really talk about murders or cults.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese, so I feel like that makes us pretty edgy.
3
SPEAKER_00
We also solve mysteries like how Chinese is your Chinese food and how do dollar stores make money?
3
SPEAKER_00
And then, of course, can you game a dog show?
3
SPEAKER_00
So what you're saying is everyone should be listening.
3
SPEAKER_00
Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
3
SPEAKER_04
 At one of the most famous restaurants in the world, there's a table in the corner where the most incredible conversations on the planet are happening every week with owner Ruthie Rogers and amazing guests like Martha Stewart, Jimmy Fallon, and Paul McCartney.
3
SPEAKER_04
 We've saved you a seat.
3
SPEAKER_04
Ruthie's Table 4.
3
SPEAKER_04
Listen to Ruthie's Table 4 on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.