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My name is Lee Hawkins.
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I ve been a journalist for over 25 years.
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On my new podcast, What Happened in Alabama, I get answers to some of the hardest questions about how things came to be for many black Americans and the truth that must come before any reconciliation can happen.
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I investigate my family history, my upbringing in Minnesota, and my father s painful nightmares about growing up in Alabama.
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What Happened in Alabama is a new series confronting the cycles of trauma for myself, my family, and for many Black Americans.
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Listen now.
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Friends, today s guests introduced their new children s book.
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It got me thinking of my own fond memories of books I read when I was a child.
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Classic titles like Ribsy and Amelia Bedelia.
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I have to say, when I was a kid, any time it was story or circle time or whatever it was in the 70s, I was beside myself like I was about to see the Beatles live in concert when my teacher would pull out an Amelia Bedelia book.
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And as an adult, wonder now if that informed, I mean, it must have informed some part of my sense of humor.
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or if just that was already in me and then this book spoke to me.
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But either way, I cannot recommend Amelia Bedelia enough.
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I just thought I would share that with you.
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What is your favorite children s book?
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I would love to know, and I d also love to know if Amelia Bedelia or Ribsy was your favorite.
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Who knows?
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Maybe I ll add your favorite book to Max and Finn s library.
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Let me know at DontAskTig.org or call 833-275-8444.
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That s 833-ASK-TIG-4.
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And drop me a voicemail.
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Also, I m still touring.
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Come see me live and on stage.
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September 15th in Torrington, Connecticut.
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September 16th, Rochester, New York.
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September 17th, Wilmington, Delaware.
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September 25th, Colorado Springs.
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September 28th, Breckenridge, Colorado.
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October 28th, La Crosse, Wisconsin.
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Also, the rest of October, I m basically gonna be on a full-blown European tour, so go to my website for tickets and show information.
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And finally, Brooklyn, November 4th, for my next stand-up special taping.
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Hope to see you there.
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Again, TigNotaro.com for all show links and ticket information.
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Now, let s start the show.
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Let me adjust my hairdo.
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Even though it s not on the camera, you re going to adjust your hairdo?
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Well, you know.
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You are so wrapped up in your image.
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And looks.
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You ve always been this way.
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I know.
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And now I see it s gotten worse.
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It really has.
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You re on a podcast.
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No one can see you.
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Nobody can see me.
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Nobody wants to see me.
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And here I am just making sure I look hot and sexy all the time.
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You never wear a dress.
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And here you are dressed up.
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Yeah, I m wearing a dress today.
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And your top hat.
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And my top hat.
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And what is this Chanel?
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Who s dressed you today?
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My three cats.
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This is Don t Ask Tig.
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I m Tig Notaro, and if I ever make a spinoff of this podcast, I ll call it Better Not Call Tig.
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I m joined today by two guests.
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The first is an award-winning writer, comedian, and actor you ve seen in shows like Lucky Hank, HBO s Mr. Show, and of course, in the titular role of Saul Goodman in the Breaking Bad spinoff, Better Call Saul.
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I m joined also by his daughter, an artist, illustrator, and Pratt Institute graduate.
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Together, they co-created a book of poetry for children titled Zillit and Other Important Rhymes.
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Bob Odenkirk and Erin Odenkirk, welcome to Don t Ask Tig.
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Hey, great to see you, Tig.
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Usually I see you backstage at a comedy club.
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I know.
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And now podcasting at 8 a.m.
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Aaron, how are you doing?
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Hello.
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I m well.
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How are you doing?
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Well, I feel like if I ve met you, Aaron, it was a long time ago because, yeah, I met shows with your father and mother.
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I feel like she s always kind of lurking around being a manager, being a big wig and stuff.
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That s a good way to put it.
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She lurks.
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She lurks.
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If I ve met you, it was a long time ago because I don t recall.
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Tell me about this book that you two put together.
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How did this come about?
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So here s what happened, Tig.
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When the kids were little, right from the start, I love books.
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I love reading.
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And we would read to them.
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I would read to them even from like two months old.
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And in the course of doing that for years, I wanted them to think, I can write too.
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And so I thought, when we re reading the book, finish a book in like twice a week, take out a piece of paper and we ll write a poem.
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And I would literally write down, like, I d have my own ideas, of course.
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But then sometimes I d say, what happened to you today?
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Or you skinned your knee, or we went to this store today, or you ate too much dessert, or let s write about that.
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I would write a line, they would write a line, then we d talk about it and we d finish it up.
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And they were very nonsensical, these poems.
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Like not even words that make sense together.
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But look, over the course of four years, we probably wrote 80 of these things.
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And I kept them in this little notebook.
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And I put it on a shelf because I figured, I knew that some of them were pretty good.
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Like there was like three or four that were great.
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And then there were like 10 or 12 that were like, that s a good idea for a kid s poem.
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I always thought I d rewrite these when I was a grandpa and maybe see if I can make a book out of it.
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And then COVID hit and Erin had been doing artwork her whole life and the kids were, their lives were so sad as were all of ours.
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Erin was 19 and Nate was 21 and they had no social life.
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So I just tried to fill their lives with some projects and one of them was let s rewrite these poems and Aaron do the illustrations.
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And the art is incredible.
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Well, thank you.
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I love that style.
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What would you say that style of is there a name of if there is a name?
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I have yet to learn it or come up with it.
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But I can tell you I was very inspired by plenty of people.
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Shel Silverstein, number one.
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Dr. Seuss, number two.
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You might see some Dr. Seuss in the color palette, sort of like 70s rainbow, but calmer.
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And then also I was big into Calvin and Hobbes and big into Peanuts and The Mutts.
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And so sort of that like Sunday morning cartoon strip style blended maybe with some of the creepiness and intensity of Shell and the bright, fun Soothsian.
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You re so talented.
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Oh, that means a lot.
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Thanks.
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And as much as I enjoyed the poetry, I was so captivated by your artwork.
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It was so exciting.
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That was kind of a secret dream of mine to be an illustrator.
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Is that the trajectory that you re on or hoping to be on?
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I don t know.
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I m open to anything anyone has to offer.
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I really enjoyed the process of making this book.
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I didn t know if I would, but I did.
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And I think I got better throughout doing it.
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I mean, I started it when I was 19 and I m 22 now.
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And when you go back to those original drafts, you can see how different and how much better and in my own process, how much more confident I got.
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Uh-huh.
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When did you know Aaron s really a gosh darn talent in this arena?
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Tig, I m just speaking to you as a fellow parent.
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Okay.
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This was a very risky endeavor.
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Okay.
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If we had done this and she had been not very good or not good enough,
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and nobody bought it, then she might have been more depressed and more dissuaded from trying to be an artist or doing anything in this area for the rest of her life.
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We did 40 poems and we sent them out to publishers and they said no.
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That was the first thing was a no from everybody.
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One person said, we ll do it, but you have to make it more confrontational, abrasive, louder.
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And not so sweet, you know, not so bedtime-y.
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And I don t know how Erin felt at that moment, because that was a hard moment.
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That was a moment to either quit on the project and maybe feel like she d failed.
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How d you feel, Erin?
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It didn t hurt my feelings that bad.
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It made a lot of sense to me.
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And I think the reason it didn t is because all the confidence I needed came initially when you asked me to do it with you.
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You wanting to work with me, both as my father and as a writer that I respect and a comedian that I respect,
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Even if no one ever bought this book, getting to do that with you was enough permission for myself to try it.
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You re looking for people to want you around and want to believe in you and it meant a lot, meant enough.
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And so it made sense that they didn t buy it the first round to me.
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I kind of figured no one would ever buy it.
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And I kind of knew that it was special and it was special to us, but I didn t know if I could trust anyone else to see that.
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Even after that first round of illustration, I didn t know if I was good enough or if it was good enough.
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Well, I m here to tell you for sure you are.
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Oh, thank you.
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Now, this is my first parent and child duo on my podcast.
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And since it s an advice show, I m curious, Erin, what s the best advice your dad has ever given you?
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Boy, oh boy.
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I mean, to get real serious, he gave me a lot of dumb advice, a lot of silly advice.
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I ll take anything.
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The first thing that comes to my mind is my first year in New York was really hard for me.
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I had just moved here for school and I was kind of making friends, kind of not.
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It s a big city.
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I just felt really lonely.
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And I remember getting dinner with my dad.
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I started to tell him more about this and I got pretty sad.
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It wasn t really advice, but he just kind of was like, I know what you re feeling.
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I ve been there.
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I ve felt that.
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The way a friend might say, I ve been through what you re going through, and I m sorry, and it s hard.
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And that at the time meant a lot to me just to know that someone who I saw as big and okay and adult had had this experience.
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Well, yeah, I mean, sometimes it s really those moments of feeling just being validated in what you re experiencing is all you really need.
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Yeah.
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I also think the kids know you as you and you re established in this character in the world.
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Yes.
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And you re so sure of yourself, it seems to them.
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Yes.
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And it s hard to express.
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I sent
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Nate, my son, a little video I made when I was in Ireland, I was thinking about him a lot as I was hiking around.
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He wants to be a comedy writer and I know he wants to work at Saturday Night Live or a big show like that.
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And I got a job when I was 25 at SNL and I ve talked to the kids and I ve shared with people that I was unsure of myself.
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It was hard.
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It was existentially dangerous.
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I had feelings of
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I should erase myself, you know what I mean?
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And the kids don t believe, it s like they don t hear you.
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I think they look at you probably and go, oh yeah, I know you say you were unsure of yourself, but you re clearly so sure of yourself as a comedy writer and a...
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comic presence.
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After all of that success that you ve had.
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And I made a little video where I said, no, listen to me.
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I was too young when I got hired at SNL.
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That was not a good thing.
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That could have gone wrong.
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That could have gone so wrong.
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It came this close so many times to going so wrong.
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You ve got to believe me.
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Yeah.
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And it s hard for kids to believe you when you say I had no clue what I was doing and I was scared out of my wits for years.
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Yeah.
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As a comedian touring around, people are like, oh, you wouldn t understand.
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I do these terrible gigs.
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And I m like, do you think I just.
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did an open mic once and then I walked into a sold-out theater.
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This is decades of joy and hell, but decades of so much work and so much horror and terror and bad days and insecurity, all of those things.
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And I m hoping that was helpful to Nate.
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Well, I hope so, too.
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I mean, you really have to.
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It s a thing you really will want to do, especially when your kids are in their teens and in their early 20s, because you are you, Tig, and you have books out and you re in TV shows that you created and
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You re just such an established voice and you really have a genuine confidence because also you can t go through your whole life going, am I good?
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Am I any good?
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You know, that s just dumb.
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We know people like that.
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And you re like, calm down.
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No one believes you when you say you re not sure if you re an actor.
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No one believes you.
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If that s true, then you need help.
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Therapy, for sure.
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But, you know, at some point you have to go like, well, sometimes I m a better actor, sometimes I m a worse actor, but I can act.
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I mean, I can.
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But it takes so long to get there.
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And I think these years where Aaron is now, where my son is now, those are the years that you just so wish they could really believe you.
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Do you believe him, Erin?
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I m starting to.
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It s coming along.
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And do you have any advice now for your dad?
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Oh, loads.
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I feel like he s at an age that is in some ways his second teenage years.
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I think when you re a teenager, you re learning how to be sure of yourself and you re learning who you are and what to do with that.
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And then you kind of fall into a routine and a rhythm and you do that for 20, 30 years.
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And then you wake up on the other side of it, and maybe your kids are grown up, or maybe you retire, or maybe you move.
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You know, some big life change happens.
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Or you have a heart attack.
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Or you have a heart attack.
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I mean, that s the one he picked.
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I don t know why.
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How dare you?
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A little bit dramatic.
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But see, something happens that sort of resets you back to that elemental phase of being like, ah, where am I?
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What do I do?
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And
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Honestly, it s been making me smile.
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Like when he calls me and he tells me about, you know, what he thought about today or what he s struggling with today or just being very genuine and open with me.
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It makes me happy because I know that on the other end of it is a happy, assured version of himself.
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that is the new version of himself.
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It s the 60s version of himself.
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And maybe that version gets to have a little more fun in life.
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And so I guess my advice would be to enjoy the discomfort or enjoy what comes after the discomfort.
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Look forward to that.
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I love it.
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She s not wrong.
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I mean, I m at a juncture and have been for two years and it really did start with a heart attack.
0
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I mean, but what happened was I had, my memory went away every morning.
0
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So I didn t remember what I had done or talked to, who I talked to the week before or anywhere back to the heart attack.
0
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And then sort of very slowly, it kind of started to accumulate and connect and stick.
0
SPEAKER_01
But I knew from that incident that I needed to rethink how I was moving forward, that it really was simply, hey, you re going to die.
0
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I mean, you re going to die one day and you re closer to death than you are to being born.
0
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You re a lot closer.
0
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And you know, people see the world through their eyes and they occasionally step in front of a mirror and are, you know, brutally honest with themselves.
0
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But mostly they kind of see the, I mean, I m sort of 14 years old my whole life.
0
SPEAKER_01
I m stuck at the age of 14.
0
SPEAKER_01
I still love The Replacements.
0
SPEAKER_01
Same.
0
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I still have a great warm feeling towards the book On the Road by Jack Kerouac.
0
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I ll never stop loving Catcher in the Rye.
0
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I m just stuck there.
0
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But the heart attack was God or the universe screaming, well, you re not 14.
0
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Yeah, yeah.
0
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Well, you look good, Bob.
0
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That s nice of you.
0
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I have to say, you look good.
0
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Thank you.
0
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A 14-year-old with some gray hair, but you look good.
0
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Now, as you know, we here at Don t Ask Tig are tasked with giving advice to listeners.
0
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Are you ready to take some questions?
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
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This first question revolves around parenting and comedy.
0
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Thea writes, In my household we value laughing and joking around as one of the greatest pleasures in life.
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We have a smart
1
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loving, hilarious third grader who has taken this family value to heart.
1
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We try to limit our joking with her to puns and silliness so she doesn t offend when she takes her show on the road.
1
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The problem is that my spouse and I can t help but slip in sarcasm and light ribbing when joking with each other.
1
SPEAKER_02
She s picked some of that up and it makes us laugh, but she s still learning and her sarcasm doesn t always land kindly with her fellow eight-year-olds or teachers.
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How can I encourage her to freely experiment with humor while teaching her to use wisecracking with kindness?
1
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Boy, that s a hair to split right there.
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That s a tough one.
1
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That s a line to ride.
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I remember the first time I became aware of sarcasm and how funny it was.
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And I was nine years old.
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I mean, this is a very distinctive memory I have, Tig.
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Wow.
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My dad was taking us and he didn t do much with us.
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I didn t see my dad all that much in my life.
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But he took us to a Cougars game, which was a World Hockey League team.
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There was a short time where there was a separate hockey league from the NHL called the World Hockey League.
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And Chicago had a team called the Cougars.
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I don t know if it was two or three years.
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And we were going to the stadium, which was in a challenged part of Chicago, driving down some pretty rough streets.
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And he couldn t find the stadium.
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He didn t know where it was or he didn t have a good map.
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And he pulled over and he said, roll down the window.
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And he called to some guy out there.
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Hey, buddy, buddy.
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Hey, where s the stadium?
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Where is it from here?
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And the guy like made some nonsensical explanation.
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And I knew that didn t make any sense what that guy said.
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And then my dad goes, that s great.
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Thank you so much.
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Thanks for your help, buddy.
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And he drove away.
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And I laughed so hard.
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And I thought that guy did not help us at all.
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That was so funny.
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I think you have to be older.
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The only thing I can compare it to is in Zillit in the book, sometimes we use big words, right?
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There s a poem called Zillit, which is about building a zillit, which is a blanket fort.
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And it ends with the line,
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Don t get rambunctious.
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Don t clutter or overfill it.
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Be cool and mellow, and you won t compromise the integrity of the zillet. 
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And I used to say that line to my kids.
1
SPEAKER_01
My son invented the word zillet, and I d say, like, careful, guys.
1
SPEAKER_01
You re going to compromise the integrity of the zillet.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then I would say, you re going to knock it over.
1
SPEAKER_01
And in other words, I would use this big adult construction and then I would immediately interpret it.
1
SPEAKER_01
So, you know, two, three years from now, they re not going to have a problem, but just always interpret it, you know, without making it too much of a pedantic lesson.
1
SPEAKER_01
See if you can say, thanks, honey.
1
SPEAKER_01
I really appreciate that you warmed up the dinner two hours ago.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s really cold now.
1
SPEAKER_03
I feel like that s going to exasperate the issue of a third grader being a little bit spicy to their friends and teachers.
1
SPEAKER_01
But the thing is, the kids, the other kids don t.
1
SPEAKER_01
This is a real problem this person has.
1
SPEAKER_02
Well, that s why the show s called Don t Ask Tig.
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, what are you doing coming to us for answers?
1
SPEAKER_03
I d say let it fly.
1
SPEAKER_02
Uh-huh.
1
SPEAKER_03
I was thinking earlier today about how much I wish I had understood that between the ages of zero and 13, basically anything I did that was wrong was okay.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_03
And that getting in trouble is actually not the worst thing ever.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_03
You re not a bad person if you get in trouble.
1
SPEAKER_03
Because I was pretty convinced that if I did one little
1
SPEAKER_03
One little mess up and that was it.
1
SPEAKER_03
I was bad.
1
SPEAKER_03
I think let the freak flag fly.
1
SPEAKER_03
Make fun of your friends.
1
SPEAKER_03
See how it feels.
1
SPEAKER_03
Learn from the feeling.
1
SPEAKER_02
I m all for it.
1
SPEAKER_02
That was kind of where I was leaning.
1
SPEAKER_02
But I also appreciate what Bob is saying of giving an explanation and some background or something on the topic or joke to give an understanding.
1
SPEAKER_02
But also,
1
SPEAKER_02
they re gonna figure it out.
1
SPEAKER_02
They re gonna figure it out.
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, we re all about ribbing and joking and teasing and inappropriateness in our house.
1
SPEAKER_02
And, uh... I hope it all goes okay for everybody.
1
SPEAKER_02
Thea, I know sometimes I sound sarcastic, even when I m not trying to be.
1
SPEAKER_02
But, uh, good luck.
1
SPEAKER_02
All right, Erin and Bob, more listener questions after we take a short break.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m Christina Cotarucci, and this season on Slow Burn,
1
SPEAKER_02
It s called Proposition 6.
1
SPEAKER_02
The Briggs Initiative.
1
SPEAKER_01
John Briggs is going to fire every gay and lesbian schoolteacher in California.
1
SPEAKER_00
With so much at stake, young people became activists.
1
SPEAKER_00
We can t let this happen in California.
1
SPEAKER_00
And activists became leaders.
1
SPEAKER_01
My name is Harvey Milk and I m here to include you.
1
SPEAKER_00
Slow Burn, Season 9.
1
SPEAKER_00
Gays Against Briggs.
1
SPEAKER_00
Out now, wherever you listen.
1
SPEAKER_02
And we re back!
1
SPEAKER_02
Erin and Bob, this next listener has a parking problem.
1
SPEAKER_02
Kendra writes, I started a tiny vegan specialty store a year ago.
1
SPEAKER_02
My store has one parking space assigned out of 45 spots.
1
SPEAKER_02
The spot has a sign saying parking for my store only, but people park there all the time, sometimes for hours.
1
SPEAKER_02
I can call the tow truck, but it sort of bothers me that people will have to pay hundreds of dollars.
1
SPEAKER_02
So I end up leaving passive aggressive notes.
1
SPEAKER_02
I don t really like being mad, but I really need this space for customers and staff.
1
SPEAKER_02
Is there any alternative to just having people towed?
1
SPEAKER_02
I have an answer.
1
SPEAKER_03
Oh my gosh.
1
SPEAKER_03
This is coming from a pescatarian post-vegan.
1
SPEAKER_03
I ve been there.
1
SPEAKER_03
Paint I am vegan on the parking spot.
1
SPEAKER_03
See who parks there.
1
SPEAKER_03
Customers.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_02
The people that are very anti-vegan, when they pull in, they re not going to want to be associated with that, right?
1
SPEAKER_02
Is that what you re saying?
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, there s so much stigma.
1
SPEAKER_03
I mean, again, ex-vegan, I love vegan.
1
SPEAKER_03
I would park there in a heartbeat.
1
SPEAKER_03
But you put a little sign up, you put a little notice.
1
SPEAKER_03
Vegan parking only.
1
SPEAKER_03
Come join us.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I like that.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s a great suggestion.
1
SPEAKER_01
My suggestion is write up a note that isn t passive aggressive, that is plain spoken and straightforward that you could put on the cars as well as Erin s sign idea.
1
SPEAKER_01
and put it on the car every single time.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, print it up in bulk.
1
SPEAKER_01
Because not doing anything specific is going to make you feel ineffectual.
1
SPEAKER_01
But passive-aggressive is annoying to me.
1
SPEAKER_01
Just say, this spot was needed by my store.
1
SPEAKER_01
I only get one.
1
SPEAKER_01
You ve deprived me of business today.
1
SPEAKER_01
Please don t do it again.
1
SPEAKER_02
I m all for that.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think straightforward is the way to go, always.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s not always easy, but I say a straightforward note is a perfect idea.
1
SPEAKER_02
I also think we could make an even bigger sign rather than, I m vegan, and make it very straightforward.
1
SPEAKER_02
If you are parking in this spot, please be an employee or a customer of this store if you are not, and then really point out some terrible characteristics of a person that is ignoring that and parking.
1
SPEAKER_02
That is not passive-aggressive.
1
SPEAKER_02
That is aggressive.
1
SPEAKER_02
That is straightforward.
1
SPEAKER_02
You can put it on the note as well as on the building.
1
SPEAKER_02
is my feeling.
1
SPEAKER_02
That way, if you re pulling your car in and you re parking and you re just being a jerk about it, that sign is going to tell everybody, the person that gets out of this car is being a jerk if they do not go into this store.
1
SPEAKER_02
So please keep an eye on this.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
Public shaming.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, public shaming.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s not passive aggressive.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
Or you could just go back to the previous question and just write a sarcastic note on the wall or tag their car with it.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think we ve solved this as much as we can possibly solve it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I think this is good.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think we got some good solutions here.
1
SPEAKER_02
All right, Kendra, thanks for writing in.
1
SPEAKER_02
Hope that advice helped.
1
SPEAKER_02
We re going to take a quick break to answer a question that came in our Therapy Etiquette inbox.
1
SPEAKER_02
This segment is where we answer those awkward questions we all have as people getting the professional help we need and deserve and is sponsored by BetterHelp.
1
SPEAKER_02
Today s question was sent from Jessica in Liverpool.
1
SPEAKER_02
Hi Tig, I have been recommended therapy by my doctor, and I m having trouble making a start on my road to achieving a healthier mind.
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SPEAKER_02
I suffer from anxiety and depression, and the thought of therapy makes me anxious.
1
SPEAKER_02
Therefore, I have not started yet.
1
SPEAKER_02
Also, I know myself and I know that as soon as a therapist asks me a question, my mind will go blank and I won t have a response.
1
SPEAKER_02
And every time I speak to my doctor, he is like, have you contacted them yet?
1
SPEAKER_02
And I keep having to say no.
1
SPEAKER_02
Then the thought of all that makes me anxious, et cetera, et cetera.
1
SPEAKER_02
How do you think I could break free of this therapy anxiety related circle?
1
SPEAKER_02
Jessica, I totally get where you re coming from.
1
SPEAKER_02
I feel like anxiety almost always plays out like a loop.
1
SPEAKER_02
First, you feel anxious, then you have an emotional reaction to your own anxiety.
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, you re not alone in feeling that way.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s also completely okay to feel anxious about starting therapy, especially when you re dealing with anxiety and depression already.
1
SPEAKER_02
But remember, therapy is a tool to help you, and it s designed to work at your pace.
1
SPEAKER_02
So maybe take just a small step at first.
1
SPEAKER_02
You don t have to dive headfirst into a full session.
1
SPEAKER_02
What about writing down your thoughts?
1
SPEAKER_02
it might be easier to express yourself on paper.
1
SPEAKER_02
You can jot down how you re feeling, what s been bothering you, or even your worries about starting therapy.
1
SPEAKER_02
That could be a really good first session.
1
SPEAKER_02
Also, I don t really worry about your mind going blank because everyone s mind goes blank every once in a while.
1
SPEAKER_02
Therapists are skilled at gently guiding conversations so you won t be left hanging.
1
SPEAKER_02
Plus, your therapist is there to help you untangle your thoughts, not to judge you.
1
SPEAKER_02
Also, if you re comfortable, you could share your therapy journey with a friend or a loved one.
1
SPEAKER_02
Sometimes having someone familiar to talk to about it can ease the anxiety.
1
SPEAKER_02
The most important thing is to be patient with yourself.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s okay if it takes time to get started, because truly your doctor and potential therapist are there to support you.
1
SPEAKER_02
We re rooting for you, Jessica.
1
SPEAKER_02
As always, thank you to our therapy etiquette sponsor, BetterHelp.
1
SPEAKER_02
If you have any questions about the unspoken rules of therapy etiquette, share them with us by calling 833-275-8444 or visiting DontAskTig.org slash contact.
1
SPEAKER_02
And now, back to the show.
1
SPEAKER_02
Bob and Erin, this next question was sent in by Martha in Brooklyn.
1
SPEAKER_02
Martha writes, I ve been dealing with some health challenges and my doctor referred me to a specialist to discuss the prospect of an experimental but potentially effective treatment.
1
SPEAKER_02
I was excited at first, but in researching this other doctor, I found they have a lot of social and political views that don t align with my own.
1
SPEAKER_02
The more I read, the more unprofessional their social media presence seems.
1
SPEAKER_02
I m torn.
1
SPEAKER_02
I m very turned off by what I ve seen.
1
SPEAKER_02
But on the other hand, if they could help me, does that matter?
1
SPEAKER_02
Then again, can I trust a doctor who seems to spend a lot of their time yelling on what was formerly known as Twitter?
1
SPEAKER_02
Please help.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you got to be careful.
1
SPEAKER_01
This is not unlike, do you trust the art or the artist?
1
SPEAKER_01
You know, in this case, he s a doctor.
1
SPEAKER_01
he may be very good at being a doctor, and then as a person, he s a crank.
1
SPEAKER_01
But that doesn t mean he s not a great doctor.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know, I do think we have to separate those things.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m gonna tell you something very personal and true.
1
SPEAKER_01
My doctor was a conservative.
1
SPEAKER_01
He got crankier and crankier the older he got.
1
SPEAKER_01
When I was 50, I went in, he was a heart doctor, Cedars-Sinai, and he had signs up all around his office at this point.
1
SPEAKER_01
We do not accept Obamacare.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I hated this side of him that I only learned over time.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I d been with him for 20 years and he said, you need to start taking statins right now.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I said, well, I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t have heart disease in my family.
1
SPEAKER_01
He goes, just take them.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I didn t listen to him.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I went to another doctor and I had more thorough research done on my heart.
1
SPEAKER_01
And that other doctor said, you don t need medicine yet.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I had a heart attack.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think the first doctor was right.
1
SPEAKER_01
The cranky, conservative jack was right because he was a god good doctor.
1
SPEAKER_01
His political point of view doesn t have anything to do with his ability to judge your health and your health choices and needs.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I ve always felt that way about art, too.
1
SPEAKER_01
If somebody makes a great movie and then they have a really
1
SPEAKER_01
horrible personal behavioral choice that we all learn about, the movie can still be a great movie.
1
SPEAKER_02
It can still be a great movie.
1
SPEAKER_02
I feel like it still taints it for me.
1
SPEAKER_02
But as far as health goes,
1
SPEAKER_02
I would be more willing to put things aside to save my life, is my feeling.
1
SPEAKER_02
It wouldn t be my number one choice to go to somebody that had really differing views, but also that s what s so crazy about social media and the internet is the fact that you can find out this information, whereas before you would never have known what your doctor was up to or feeling or voting or whatever.
1
SPEAKER_02
I ve had my own health issues and I, whether I m with somebody with very opposing political views or getting to a point where I m trying, you know, stuff that would be considered wackadoo, I m on both ends of like, I just want to feel good.
1
SPEAKER_02
I want to be healthy.
1
SPEAKER_02
I don t want to be in pain.
1
SPEAKER_02
I want to be alive.
1
SPEAKER_02
I want to be with my wife and children and
1
SPEAKER_02
that s where I am with health issues.
1
SPEAKER_02
But I hear you on the art thing.
1
SPEAKER_02
I just personally
1
SPEAKER_02
it taints things a bit for me.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but don t forget that the art that you love made by somebody who s done wonderful, you know, who s a wonderful person, you don t actually know if they re a wonderful person.
1
SPEAKER_02
Of course.
1
SPEAKER_02
People live together for years and you learn new things about each other as time goes on.
1
SPEAKER_02
You know, you think, oh, we ve been together for two years or married for 10 or 40, but then new
1
SPEAKER_02
obstacles and trials and tribulations come along and you re surprised by how somebody reacts to something, or you don t even know it about yourself.
1
SPEAKER_02
There s always that lesson that s popping up with the twists and turns of life, and I hear that.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s just that when I do know very clearly that this person did this horrendous thing, for sure,
1
SPEAKER_02
It s hard for me to fully pull back and not... Yeah, it s hard to unsee something is part of it.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it s really hard.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I would say when it comes to doctor, go off the reputation this person has, go off as a doctor.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s what I would pitch.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yes, especially if you don t have a lot of other options.
1
SPEAKER_02
If you have a lot of other options and it seems that there s a great doctor that lines up, as far as you can tell, with your political or social ideas, then go there.
1
SPEAKER_02
But if this is the one that can save your life,
1
SPEAKER_02
I d go for it.
1
SPEAKER_02
Martha, that is our diagnosis.
1
SPEAKER_02
We hope you find the right or left doctor for you.
1
SPEAKER_02
Okay, Bob and Erin, the show is almost over.
1
SPEAKER_02
We have one last segment I need your help with.
1
SPEAKER_02
The Don t Ask Tig Confession Booth.
1
SPEAKER_02
Welcome to the Confession Booth.
1
SPEAKER_02
The Don t Ask Tig Confession Booth features listeners sharing secrets they ve never told anyone in order
2
SPEAKER_04
for us to give them the advice they re afraid to ask for.
2
SPEAKER_04
Today s confession was sent in by Coleman.
2
SPEAKER_04
Coleman writes, I decided to try my hand at growing tomatillos.
2
SPEAKER_04
I planted many seeds, but only one plant grew.
2
SPEAKER_04
It s producing flowers but no fruit.
2
SPEAKER_04
Then I learned that tomatillo plants are sterile and I need another plant to actually get fruit.
2
SPEAKER_04
I searched but no local nurseries carry any.
2
SPEAKER_04
There s a community garden across from my home that has many tomatillo plants, at least 15 to 20.
2
SPEAKER_04
The garden is fully fenced in and the gate is locked when no one is there.
2
SPEAKER_04
One night at dusk, I saw the gate was unlocked.
2
SPEAKER_04
I quickly walked in, dug a small flowering plant up with my fingers and planted the small plant next to mine in hopes that someday soon I will have tomatillos on my plant.
2
SPEAKER_04
I need to restore my karma.
2
SPEAKER_04
I didn t need to steal.
2
SPEAKER_04
I am ashamed.
2
SPEAKER_04
What does Coleman do?
2
SPEAKER_04
I can feel the sincerity of, I didn t need to steal.
2
SPEAKER_04
I am ashamed.
2
SPEAKER_04
So funny.
2
SPEAKER_06
Okay, look, here s what you need to do.
2
SPEAKER_06
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_06
First of all, when the tomatillos show up,
2
SPEAKER_03
Uh-huh.
2
SPEAKER_06
Every time you eat them, if you re eating with someone, you have to say, you know you re eating stolen tomatillos, right?
2
SPEAKER_04
You have to confess every time.
2
SPEAKER_04
Every time.
2
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_06
When you say your grace before your meal, as I hope we all do, you say, thank you, God, for these stolen tomatillos.
2
SPEAKER_06
It was referred to them as stolen tomatillos forever.
2
SPEAKER_06
I have more.
2
SPEAKER_06
You have to write a note, not passive aggressive.
2
SPEAKER_06
We ve established that.
2
SPEAKER_06
And go to the garden and plant it in the garden.
2
SPEAKER_06
An apology from the universe.
2
SPEAKER_06
saying in the middle of the night, when no one was looking, a crook, a robber, a thief, me.
2
SPEAKER_06
Me.
2
SPEAKER_06
Stoled, stoled your tiny tomatillo plant.
2
SPEAKER_06
This is from an author, stoled.
2
SPEAKER_06
Please forgive myself and may you live long and have many tomatillos in your life.
2
SPEAKER_04
Now can t they, I m all, yes, one million percent.
2
SPEAKER_04
Can t they trace that note and catch you?
2
SPEAKER_04
No, that s not what I was gonna ask.
2
SPEAKER_04
But Coleman, can t you create another plant from the two plants that you have and then go replant that with the note?
2
SPEAKER_04
And that would be even more special because instead of just leaving them high and dry tomatillos-less,
2
SPEAKER_04
how great to apologize, leave the note, but also, yeah, replenish your thievery.
2
SPEAKER_06
The point is, if Coleman did it right, stole it properly, then he will be bringing more tomatillos into this world.
2
SPEAKER_06
And so, the ends sort of justify the means a little bit here, if it works out.
2
SPEAKER_01
I concur.
2
SPEAKER_04
Well, since this is the confession booth, what sort of tenants should we assign Coleman?
2
SPEAKER_06
Oh, he never gets to eat any of the tomatillos that he grows.
2
SPEAKER_06
No.
2
SPEAKER_06
He can only feed them to guests.
2
SPEAKER_06
Here s my salad, and these I grew myself, and these are stolen tomatillos, and aren t you going to have any?
2
SPEAKER_06
Oh, no, I m not allowed.
2
SPEAKER_06
I stole these.
2
SPEAKER_04
All right, Coleman, to make amends for your sin, you must never have any of your tomatillos.
2
SPEAKER_04
Erin and Bob, this has been an absolute delight.
2
SPEAKER_04
Thank you for joining me on Don t Ask Tig.
2
SPEAKER_04
Bob, I m always excited for you.
2
SPEAKER_04
I mean, it s truly so fun to see
2
SPEAKER_04
everything that happens with you, and Aaron, what a fun discovery that Bob has this outrageously talented child.
2
SPEAKER_04
Congrats on everything.
2
SPEAKER_04
And I really am truly excited for you, and I really think your art is incredible.
2
SPEAKER_04
Thank you, Tig.
2
SPEAKER_02
I love cartoons, and I love art.
2
SPEAKER_02
I m just excited for you.
2
SPEAKER_02
Well, I believe you and that means a lot.
2
SPEAKER_02
So thank you.
2
SPEAKER_04
Well, thanks for believing me.
2
SPEAKER_04
Do you have anything that you would like to promote aside from the book that you can promote at a time where it s hard to promote things?
2
SPEAKER_04
Either of you?
2
SPEAKER_06
I don t think I have a thing.
2
SPEAKER_06
I m taking a break from everything, Jake.
2
SPEAKER_03
OK.
2
SPEAKER_06
And so nothing right now.
2
SPEAKER_06
And just the strike.
2
SPEAKER_06
Let s keep striking and get things right.
2
SPEAKER_06
Then we can all go back to work.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, strike until it s right.
2
SPEAKER_01
We can add that there is a Zillit audiobook to come out in the near future featuring Bob Odenkirk and Emo Phillips and Maria Bamford and Ron Funches and a lovely eight-year-old named Sam who have read Zillit in its entirety and it will come through your headphones into your ears and it s quite a delight.
2
SPEAKER_04
Awesome and also buy the book Zillit and Other Important Rhymes by Bob Odenkirk and Erin Odenkirk.
2
SPEAKER_04
Thank you so much for taking the time.
2
SPEAKER_04
I know it was early and I m half awake, but it was really a joy to see you both and talk to you both.
2
SPEAKER_01
Thanks, Tig.
2
SPEAKER_01
Thanks for having us.
2
SPEAKER_04
Thank you.
2
SPEAKER_04
Goodbye.
2
SPEAKER_06
Take care.
2
SPEAKER_04
Don t Ask Tig is hosted by me, Tig Notaro.
2
SPEAKER_04
It s produced by Thomas Ouellette and Shana Deloria.
2
SPEAKER_04
Our executive producer and editor is Beth Perlman.
2
SPEAKER_04
Engineering and sound mixing by Alex Simpson.
2
SPEAKER_04
Digital production by James Napoli.
2
SPEAKER_04
Talent booking by Marianne Ways.
2
SPEAKER_04
Production support from Maria Wurtele and Lou Barron.
2
SPEAKER_04
Our theme music is Friend and Tig by Edie Burkell and Kyle Crusham.
2
SPEAKER_04
And Listen to Your Heart by Edie Burkell.
2
SPEAKER_04
Special thanks to Hunter Seidman.
2
SPEAKER_04
APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Cavati, Alex Schaffert, and Joanne Griffith.
2
SPEAKER_04
Concept developed by Tracy Mumford.
2
SPEAKER_04
Our executive consultant is Dean Capello and Gobsmack Studios.
2
SPEAKER_04
You can always ask for advice at DontAskTig.org.
2
SPEAKER_04
Just write in with your problem or send us a voice memo.
2
SPEAKER_04
Remember to follow us on social media at DontAskTig.
2
SPEAKER_04
DontAskTig is a production of American Public Media.
2
SPEAKER_04
And as always, thanks Dana, and I ll tell Becky.
2
SPEAKER_04
Hi, I m stand-up comedian and sex symbol Tig Notaro.
2
SPEAKER_04
And I m actor and writer Sheryl Hines.
2
SPEAKER_04
Before Sheryl and I got into the big business of podcasting together, we were just simply friends.
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And we re still friends.
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But now we talk about a different documentary every week on our podcast, Tig and Sheryl, True Story.
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So whether you love documentaries or just want to hear us slowly lose our minds, check out Tig and Sheryl, True Story, wherever you get your podcasts.
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Alright, cool.