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The money wasn t the goal.
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The life was the goal.
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The fulfillment was the goal.
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I ve had many journeys about what will fulfill me and what the money s for, but ultimately it s just one variable out of what I would call the three variables.
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Your wealth, your health, and your time.
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Like, how do I allocate those resources, right, over my life to get the most fulfilling life?
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And so I think a lot of people look at money as the goal, and it s not even close to the goal.
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The goal is a fulfilling life.
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Welcome to the School of Greatness.
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My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur.
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And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness.
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Thanks for spending some time with me today.
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Now let the class begin.
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Welcome back everyone at the School of Greatness.
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Very excited about our guest.
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We have the inspiring Bill Perkins in the house.
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My man.
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Good to see you brother.
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Great to see you.
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Great to see you man.
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For those that don t know you, you have done amazing things in business and financially over your life.
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You have
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As a hedge fund manager trading mostly natural gas, you ve brought in over $2.2 billion in profits for your businesses.
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You ve personally brought in over $600 million to you individually over the years, and you ve had an incredible
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experience unlocking financial freedom for yourself and showing others how to do that as well.
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And a lot of people struggle around the idea of money, around the idea of how do I make money?
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Am I deserving of more money?
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Is money good?
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Is it bad?
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What do I do with my money?
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Do I save it for a rainy day?
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Do I keep it all until I retire when I m old and can t move?
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Do I give my money to my kids?
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Do I give it to charity?
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What do people do with their money?
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You ve had an inside look around some of the richest people in the world, some of the biggest celebrities in the world, massive personalities, and you ve seen the good, the bad, and the ugly, and you ve also experienced the good, the bad, and the ugly around what money can do for people.
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Now, I m curious, where did your fascination with wanting to make more money come from originally?
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And what do you believe was the true unlock for you from not having a certain amount of money to it becoming an abundance that started to come your way?
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What was that moment where you started to see it unfold and unlock in a bigger way?
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I think it was when I was younger when I didn t have any money and I was out trying to conquer things.
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And I was having lots of thoughts about what is it all for?
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What does it all mean?
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I was a screen clerk, which is basically a peon, assistant assistant peon.
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And when you re in Manhattan, you can t swing a dead cat without hitting a millionaire, right?
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Very rich people.
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But when I was younger, I was like, oh, they re old.
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Now they were younger than the age I am right now.
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I m 54.
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Right.
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But when you re growing up, I was like, Oh gosh, what are they going to do with the money?
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Buy another car and drive their kids to school?
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Like what is use of it?
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Right.
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For me, it was all about the girls and the parties and stuff like that.
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Things that, uh, uh, a 20 year old, 21 year old, a 22 year old would think, but
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The more I thought about it and books I read like Your Money or Your Life, which was a very influential book for me, the money wasn t the goal.
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The life was the goal.
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The fulfillment was the goal.
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And so once I realized... Money was the tool.
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Yes.
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Money is like hammers and saws, right?
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Like you can keep buying hammers and saws, you can go to the hardware store, but the hardware store, the tools that you get out of there, that s not the goal.
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The goal is the house and the things you build, right?
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And so money is the tool to build your life.
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right?
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To give you the experiences you want with your friends or hedonistic or charitable.
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It doesn t matter the type of experience.
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It s just money is just one of those tools in your toolkit.
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And so once I started to think about that, that I wanted to have an adventurous life, a life with scars, a life with mistakes, a life with risks, you know, money had its place.
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right, in building the life that I wanted.
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And so I think that s when I started to unlock kind of my fearlessness.
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my risk-taking, I ll go anywhere to try and acquire this tool to build the life I want, but really it s about building the life I want and trying to figure out what kind of life I want.
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A lot of times I think I m building the life I want, but it was really what was advertised to me.
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You re young, you re impressionable, it s like, oh, I want my life to look like a rap video or I want my life to look like this, right?
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And then I do it and I m just like, oh, this is not really me, this is not really fulfilling to me.
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And so I ve had many,
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journeys about what will fulfill me and what the money s for, but ultimately it s just one variable out of what I would call the three variables.
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Your wealth, your health, and your time.
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How do I allocate those resources over my life to get the most fulfilling life?
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And so I think a lot of people look at money as the goal, and it s not even close to the goal.
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The goal is a fulfilling life.
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And so is there a calculation or a formula on how to develop a fulfilling life where money is a part of that equation?
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Yeah, I wouldn t say there s a formula, like do this, multiply by that, X, Y, and Z. But there are mental models, like how to think about it.
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The first unlock is, what tools?
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I m in this organic spacesuit, and I have a finite time here on Earth.
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what tools are at my disposal, right?
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Well, I got my health, right?
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But this spacesuit is going to decay and die, right?
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So that s how much time I got in my health.
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And there are things I can do.
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There s many great books, many great authors and things you can do to maintain this spacesuit as long as you can and be healthy, right?
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There s time and time management and mainly the time for the grave.
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But also the time in between seasons of your life, right?
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Because as you start to pick out the experiences you want to have in your life, they kind of...
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obviate other experiences.
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You know, I use very crass examples, like the time to be going out to clubs and dancing with glow sticks is probably before you get married and have kids.
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And so if in your life, over the totality of your life, you want to have that experience, it probably goes into a time bucket pre-marriage, right?
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Not after marriage, in order for you to get the maximum fulfillment score.
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And then the spending of money, right?
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When I go to work, I try my best to attribute what am I working for, right?
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What is the money for?
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What do you think about when you re doing that then?
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Well, I think about one, survival and the lifestyle that I have.
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The things that I normally think I m going to be doing.
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for now until the day I die.
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But I think about the activities, how they will change as my life changes, right?
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I mean... Give me some examples in the last five years to where it ll be different five years from now.
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The going to the club and glow stick days, they re fading.
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I still go, you know, I like to be young, but they re not as like every weekend, boy, where are we going?
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Like what s going on, right?
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So those dollars are spent, you know, they re pretty much useless, right?
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And
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I like hiking, I like traveling to different places and seeing different cultures and so I do a lot of physical activity while I m there.
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When I used to go, when I visited Paris and I was there for the summer, I used to take a leisure learning class and I d put my books on my back and I d walk to class about three or four miles and then walk around the city with the students, et cetera.
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I cannot do that enjoyably today.
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Why not?
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My back.
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My body s deteriorating.
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I can do six miles.
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I can do it, but it s not enjoyable, right?
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It s not like I can t do it.
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It s not as enjoyable.
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It s not as fulfilling to me.
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And so a trip to Paris, walking around eight or nine miles, my knees start hurting, a little swelling, et cetera.
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I don t get the same exact fulfillment that I did some time ago.
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We can just draw the line out.
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That s going to shrink and shrink and shrink, right?
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And so I know that trips that involve that type of activity, I need to be spending that money today, not in the future, right?
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And so these are the type of things, you know, I think about like, okay,
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the physically demanding trips and fulfilling things now, I need to be doing those now, getting those experiences under my belt now, and not be pushing them out until I m 66, 72, 81, if I make it that far.
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And so, I think a lot of people will look at the, on autopilot, are not thinking about these things.
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They think they re gonna retire one day, and then their life is gonna look like a carnival commercial.
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And they have perfect health when they re 60.
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No, well, I mean even perfect health when you re 60 is a lot different than perfect health when you re 40, 50, 20, 30.
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And so as your health declines naturally, the activities that you can do or that you will like change.
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And so you don t need money for those experiences, right?
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in the future, you need them now, right?
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I imagine if I m anything like my parents and my ancestors, I m gonna enjoy just visiting grandkids, talking about the old days, et cetera.
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And so what I m trying to do is create what I call memory dividends.
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Having the experience now, not only do you get enjoyment from the experience when you do it,
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you get a piece of that enjoyment every time you bring it up, every time you discuss it.
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Like I went on this trip and this happened and we got stopped by the security guard and we had to sleep overnight and we met this other couple and it was great and we had a good time and you tell that story and that creates another experience which also gives you joy.
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And so
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When you invest in experience, not only do you get the joy of that experience and the fulfillment of experience, but you get what I call the memory dividend every time you access that experience through your memories.
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And much like investing in a bank or a stock that pays dividends, investing in experience pays a dividend.
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And so these mental models, right?
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You know, it s a lot to remember, right?
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Like, oh, what do I do?
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Do I do an experience now?
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I just come with a formula, formulaic way of thinking, not a formula, of like, OK, how do I think about the totality of my life?
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What experiences belong where?
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And what will be the most fulfilling for me?
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So if someone s in their mid-20s, early-30s, right, and they re in this kind of 10-year range,
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How can they start thinking about this?
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Maybe they ve just said, you know what, I m just hustling.
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I m going after money right now or a career just to make money that I m spending it all.
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I don t really have much in savings yet, but I know I should be investing.
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But how can they start to think about the formula for their life in terms of maximum enjoyment or fulfillment, these memory dividends, which makes a lot of sense to me, without being broke the entire time?
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Right, so for each person in each profession, right, like there s certain situations where people have pensions, guaranteed jobs, etc.
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And career progression, right, where their salary is going to be going up.
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And they re also going to have their own health, right, like they re very healthy, not that healthy, etc.
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what they re trying to do is thinking about okay what experiences in the 20 to 25 bucket or 25 to 35 or whatever any way you want to break it up what experiences belong now okay that i should be doing now and gifting the memory dividends to my future self interesting or what things am i doing now that are robbing my future self from stability
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you know, and causing worry, right?
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And so there was a period in my life when I was in my 20s, I was seesawing, right?
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I was like saving too much.
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I was borrowing from my poor self to give to my future richer self, which did not make any sense, right?
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And then I went from the, I m gonna party and going crazy and I m spending every single nickel I made, right?
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To creating future instability for myself by not saving.
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And now, so for each person,
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their career path, their earnings potential, et cetera, that will be different.
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But the thing is to get off autopilot and be thinking about it.
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Right.
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And maybe you re fumbling your way through it for a year or two.
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You re like, OK, I m not sure what it s going to be, but I m paying attention to what I want right now and the future.
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Right.
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So people will have other experts, like a financial planner.
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A lot of times the financial planners are about, let s maximize the money.
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That s not the ultimate goal.
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The goal is to maximize fulfillment.
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And so they will keep you safe and maybe you ll save a certain amount of money.
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But you re the driver.
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You re responsible for your own life.
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And so if you want to be intentional and get the most out of your entire life and each time period, you have to think about, okay,
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Is backpacking now through Europe, is this the period to be backpacking tonight or is it 20, 30 years from now?
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Is this a trip or an experience or a charitable thing that I need to be doing now or is this something that I need to be doing later in my life, right?
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Just that thought process by ordering your life properly will help you have a more fulfilling life.
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Yes.
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What do you think is the biggest psychological crime someone can make when it comes to their money?
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I think the biggest psychological crime is people fear running out of money instead of fear of wasting their life.
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And so, you know, they have this fear of embarrassment of like, I m going to run out of money and I m going to be broke or I m going to do X, Y, and Z. Instead of fear, like, I am wasting my life.
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I have for the, we were talking about the 20 to 30 bucket.
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I ll just, you know, this is it.
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This is the only period I ll be 20 to 30.
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There are certain activities, experiences that are meant for this bucket, right?
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People are marketing services and products to you.
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You know that they re there, right?
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Like, I don t want to do them.
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Like, go have fun, right?
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And you only get one shot, one go around.
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You know, and so, and they re worried about, you know, in the 30, 40.
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So I think people worry about embarrassment, what other people think, judgment about their lifestyle or them failing in the future, et cetera, as opposed to worrying about like, I don t want to waste this ride.
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And it s not even the ride for the whole life, every single period of your life.
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So if you re a parent with small children, not wasting that period,
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With teenagers, I know a lot of us would like to waste that period and just be like, can we get rid of spirit?
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But that period, and then, you know, eventually you don t have kids in the house anymore.
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And that s a different period in your life.
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And there s different activities and different opportunities that go.
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And I often say, life is like Tetris, right?
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If you were in heaven, let s assume this heaven, and you re about to come down to earth as a human being, and God s like, here s the bucket of experiences.
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And when I say use experience, I mean choices, right?
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I mean it in the broadest sense, hedonistic, charitable, whatever.
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And you re like, ooh, the infinite bucket of experiences.
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I wanna go hiking, I wanna do tennis a thousand times, I wanna have sex a jillion times, I wanna do all these things.
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You re throwing them into the experience bucket.
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I wanna start a business, I wanna go to school, blah, blah, blah.
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And it s full.
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And God goes, great, you can have all those, you just have to get the order right.
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So life is like Tetris.
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You know, you remember the game Tetris where you had to get the shapes right?
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Life is that way.
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Like if you don t have the experiences at the right time, they run to interfere with each other or your ability to do them disappears.
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So you can have all the money in the world, right?
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When I was in St.
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Petersburg, Russia, this was before the war, beautiful city.
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And one of the things about Europe is like,
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things they allow you to do would be completely illegal in the United States.
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It s not like safety laws or whatever.
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So you can climb these steps, walk around the churches, and then walk around the balcony.
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It s beautiful.
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It s amazing.
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It s like, wow, I can t believe we still get to do this.
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And it was like 115 steps.
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I remember it was an odd number.
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I think it might have been 111.
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And there were like six or eight tour buses of senior citizens coming to go see the museum and this church.
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Not a single one climbed those steps.
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Not a single one.
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So their trip to St.
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Petersburg was entirely different than my St.
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Petersburg trip.
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Their experience, the information they got to process, the things they got to see was totally different.
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I m not saying it wasn t enjoyable.
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but perhaps at a city that allows you to roam around and do these things and go on cliffs and overlook type of things and you enjoy it, perhaps that trip should have been taken much earlier.
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Wow.
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And so, you know, that s an example of getting the order right.
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Yes.
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Getting the order right and making sure you re using your money at the time where you re able to use it the most effectively, right?
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Yes.
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It s getting the most out of that tool.
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It s getting the most out of that tool.
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Right.
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The tool of money.
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Your ability to convert your money into meaningful, fulfilling experiences decays over time.
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So, you know, your brain reaches mental maturity around 28.
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your body is physical maturity around 33.
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So if, by and large, if you were in the best shape of your life at 33, that is the top.
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Then you go into plateau and decline.
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I will never ever, unless, you know, new technology and gene therapy or whatever, but be in better shape than I could have been at 33, right?
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It s over.
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It doesn t mean you can t be in still great shape at your age.
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No, no, you can still be in great shape, but I m just saying my ability to do certain... Like, listen, I can get... I was recently... You re not playing college football anymore, hitting, you know, yeah.
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No, no, no, no, no.
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Last year, I was, like, one in, like, great shape.
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I got down to, like, a 9% body fat.
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My cardio VO2 was over, but my lazy 28-year-old self will smoke myself in a race.
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Really?
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Like, smoke myself, right?
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Like, you just... Doesn t need to warm up.
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No, no, just go.
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Not stretching, anything, right?
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Like... Right.
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And so, and then on top of that, if I erase them, I m sore afterwards.
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Like my knees hurt.
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You need to recover for a week.
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Yeah, cartilage in the back is kind of, you know, all those things, right?
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He s just hopping around, you know, no sleep, able to do whatever.
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Yeah.
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That guy, so lucky.
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He just doesn t know how good he has it, you know?
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And so, you know, I think about these things and, you know, sometimes they re very small things.
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Like I was at a place where my friends were going to go wakeboarding at my 50th birthday.
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I m generally a lazy guy.
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I m laying on the beach.
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I m like, I don t want to go.
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You guys go, whatever.
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And I thought about it.
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I said, when am I ever going to have a chance to go wakeboarding in the future?
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We re here.
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We re in the Caribbean.
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There s a wakeboard boat there.
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When s the next time there s going to be a wakeboard boat?
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Maybe two years from now, three years from now?
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And I thought about my back.
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Once your cartilage starts going, it just keeps going.
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I thought, this may be the last time I m able to go wakeboarding and enjoy it, and I m gonna switch to another physical activity.
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So I got my lazy butt off the beach and said, I m coming.
2
SPEAKER_01
I did a jump, I landed a jump, I was happy, you know, it surfed, and that was the last time I will ever go wakeboarding.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because of the speed of wakeboarding.
2
SPEAKER_01
So now I wake surf, which is a lot slower speed, and I can do it later in my life.
2
SPEAKER_01
But my wakeboarding days are gone forever.
2
SPEAKER_01
And had I not done it at that time, it would have been years and years before, but I m wakeboarding.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I got all the enjoyment, all the memory devins of that trip, hanging out with my friends, et cetera, but that s it.
2
SPEAKER_00
the wakeboarder bill is dead.
2
SPEAKER_00
But now you have that memory dividend that you can tell this story to me and you can think about that story for the rest of your life.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes, and I can also use it as a teaching tool, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
So for people who are still, you know, got all their cartilage, all their cartilage and no broken bones or anything like that, like, hey,
2
SPEAKER_01
you know, the time is coming where whatever activity it is, it will be the last time for you.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
And you ll be moving on to other activities, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
So, I m a wake surfer, you know, maybe golf, whatever.
2
SPEAKER_00
Maybe you re just a boater eventually, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, exactly.
2
SPEAKER_00
Your book has really taken off in the last few years since it came out.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s called Die With Zero, getting all you can from your money and your life.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I want people to get a few copies of this because I think there s been this misconception of like make as much money as you can and save it for as long as you can so that you can enjoy the rest of your life when you retire at 64 or 72 or whatever the retirement age is, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
this kind of concept, save, save, save, invest, which I m a big fan of saving and investing.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
So that it will pay me dividends now and in the future.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so I won t stress or have worry about money.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I think people take it to extremes sometimes, and they don t enjoy their time.
2
SPEAKER_00
And they get the bucket list and the time bucketing backwards.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so why should we be thinking about die with zero?
2
SPEAKER_00
And the idea of having nothing when you die, for some people, seems selfish.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, what about leaving money for my kids or for charities?
2
SPEAKER_00
Or, you know, am I going to leave my family with nothing?
2
SPEAKER_00
What does that say about me and my legacy?
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
So what is your your thoughts around, you know, these 17 questions I just asked around?
2
SPEAKER_00
you know, how we should be thinking about money for retirement, how we should be thinking about money for leaving it behind, how we should be thinking about legacy, and how does having money in the bank when you die connect to legacy?
2
SPEAKER_00
What s your thoughts on that?
2
SPEAKER_01
So I m going to go first, which is on everybody s mind.
2
SPEAKER_01
And one of the number one questions I get is like, what about the kids?
2
SPEAKER_01
And there s a chapter called What About the Kids?
2
SPEAKER_01
And it s about charity and kids.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so
2
SPEAKER_01
The same laws of physics that govern your body govern your kid s body, okay?
2
SPEAKER_01
So, they re gonna grow, their brains are gonna eventually mature.
2
SPEAKER_01
Trust me, parents, their brains will eventually mature, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
How many kids do you have?
2
SPEAKER_01
I have two.
2
SPEAKER_01
I have two.
2
SPEAKER_01
16 and 19.
2
SPEAKER_01
And their bodies will reach physical maturity, and then they will plateau and start to decline.
2
SPEAKER_01
So,
2
SPEAKER_01
If your body is unable to convert the money into meaningful experiences as you age, right, like your physical ability to either enjoy them or do them goes down, the same is true for your kids.
2
SPEAKER_01
Actually, giving a smaller amount to your kids at an earlier age will be more impactful and more fulfilling than waiting until you kick the bucket and they re 66 or 65 or 60, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
And two-thirds or more of their life has gone by, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
So what I advocate for is that be intentional.
2
SPEAKER_01
You want to give your kids fulfillment, a fulfilling life and choices.
2
SPEAKER_01
So whatever you re gonna give them, some people are like, I m not giving my kids anything.
2
SPEAKER_01
I had to make it, they had to make it.
2
SPEAKER_01
But whatever you re gonna give them, give it to them at the right time.
2
SPEAKER_01
Timing is important.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I advocate somewhere between 25 and 33, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Some kids are very mentally mature and they can handle money when they re younger and it s gonna be fine.
2
SPEAKER_01
And some are a little bit later in life, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
But at a certain point, it s their life.
2
SPEAKER_01
right?
2
SPEAKER_01
You ve done your best to prepare them to navigate the world.
2
SPEAKER_01
They re their own person.
2
SPEAKER_01
If they want to light an on fire, let them light an on fire.
2
SPEAKER_01
If they want to do this, you know, and they re industrious, et cetera, let them do that.
2
SPEAKER_01
But it s their adventure.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so, and that money has the most impact when you give it to them then.
2
SPEAKER_01
And also your legacy
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, people are like, I m working hard for my kids, you know, they re 60, I m working hard for your kids.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, part of the legacy and the fulfillment from your kids is spending time with you, moments from you, not you going to work, you with them, memories with them.
2
SPEAKER_01
So in some situations, in a perverse way, you going to work to make more money to give your kids when you die is actually taking away from the fulfillment and diminishing your legacy.
2
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
2
SPEAKER_01
So, we have to be really intentional and think about what are we trying to do when we re giving our kids money?
2
SPEAKER_01
And you know, six-year-olds are not kids.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know what I mean?
2
SPEAKER_01
So, I think one of the most asinine things we do or the most autopilot, not living with intention things we do is wait till we die to transfer assets to our kids.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that s the same thing with charity.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like charity is now.
2
SPEAKER_01
right, people are hurting now, dying, starving, whatever the issue is that speaks to you, it is now.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right?
2
SPEAKER_01
So, you know, I give kind of examples as like, imagine the people that donated to, you know, funds for polio said, let me just go wait till I die.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then more kids have polio, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, there s people, you know, and I just use that as an example.
2
SPEAKER_01
And even if it s into education, the returns on education or a human being educated right now far exceeds any market return that you can make.
2
SPEAKER_01
So, if you are a charitable person and you identify capital that you re not going to use before you die, now.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
So, how do you think about this in your own life, then, with terms of, you know, you have two teenage kids.
2
SPEAKER_00
How do you make sure that you raise kids to not rely on you for money and you re not giving them too much, personally, but you also want to maximize for fulfillment and memories and, you know, you have a...
2
SPEAKER_01
So you re going on a sub-question, it s like, do you give your kids money or not?
2
SPEAKER_01
And there s books on this, like, give them, there s books like, don t give them anything, and there s books like, give them everything.
2
SPEAKER_00
How do you navigate that?
2
SPEAKER_00
Because it s all, you know, you ve got an amazing lifestyle, you ve got properties, you ve got boats, you ve got planes, you ve got, you know, do you put them in the back of the plane?
2
SPEAKER_00
You ve got a coach and you re in first class.
2
SPEAKER_01
They take a Greyhound across the city.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, how do you do it where they re psychologically set up for success, but also,
2
SPEAKER_00
rich in memories and experiences with you.
2
SPEAKER_01
So by me, quote unquote, making it right, I ve made my life easier and therefore their lives are easier.
2
SPEAKER_01
And they re in a bubble, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
And as much as I try and, you know, the exposure, I try and get them outside the bubble.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
But the main thing I wanted to do is raise strong, independent women who are kind, who can navigate the world.
2
SPEAKER_01
the best I can hope for, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
And as far, you know, the way I look at it is, is that I have an amount that I want to give them, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
That is for them to do as they please when they re mature enough to get it.
2
SPEAKER_01
So it s not my money.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s in a trust.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s separate.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because if Bill Perkins goes out gambling in some poker game, they re not going to get my, it s not my money.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I mean, it s their money.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I don t have to worry about the risk to me, et cetera.
2
SPEAKER_01
They re taken care of, but they don t get to use it.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s not like a 16 year old s running around in a Ferrari or something like that.
2
SPEAKER_01
It turns over to them, to their control when they re between 28 and 33.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think mine is between 28 and 30.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
And what does it unlock?
2
SPEAKER_01
Every month a certain amount or is it a lump sum that there s there s you know, there s all we re
3
SPEAKER_00
We re getting to state and trust planning, but you know, there s a board that has for health support and maintenance that they can trust.
3
SPEAKER_00
Not me.
3
SPEAKER_00
Other people can be like, okay, you re going to grad school.
3
SPEAKER_00
We ll give you a little bit of a paperback or whatever, but all of it unlocks to them at 30.
3
SPEAKER_00
Got it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
Because I ve lived my life.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I say to my friends like, me, I live my life.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s their life now.
3
SPEAKER_00
If I m going to give it to them, if it s a real gift, it s theirs.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right.
3
SPEAKER_00
When they re able to handle it.
3
SPEAKER_00
you know, I ll give it to them.
3
SPEAKER_00
And they re like, well, what if they can t handle it?
3
SPEAKER_00
It s too late.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s not like at 40, it s going to help them anymore.
3
SPEAKER_00
And their health is declining, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
So I m just like, let them have the adventure they want to have with the resources that I m willing to give them.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I don t tell people, hey, you have to give your kids money or not.
3
SPEAKER_00
I just tell them the when.
3
SPEAKER_00
The when, the when, the when is very, very important.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and it s your responsibility, I guess, as a parent to educate, teach, train them to be kind, you know, thoughtful human beings.
3
SPEAKER_01
And hopefully they re able to make those decisions by then.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that s, in some way, your responsibility as well to oversee that up until 30 or whatever that time is.
3
SPEAKER_00
At a certain point, your job is done, and they re raising it, and they re their own person.
3
SPEAKER_00
They re adults.
3
SPEAKER_00
They re not going to listen to you anymore.
3
SPEAKER_00
They re not going to listen to you anymore anyway, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
You re on the advisory committee.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think I m already on the advisory committee.
3
SPEAKER_01
They call you when they need money.
3
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m on the advisory committee, and you hopefully have done a good job, but your job, that part,
3
SPEAKER_00
of trying to control your kids is done.
3
SPEAKER_00
You mulled through advice from that point on.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so a gift is a gift.
3
SPEAKER_00
And my gift is set and it s done.
3
SPEAKER_00
If I come into a windfall and hit the lottery and I feel like, hey, I want to give more to them, I can add to it.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I m living intentionally.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, hey,
3
SPEAKER_00
This is when they re going to reach peak mental maturity, mental acuity, and physical maturity.
3
SPEAKER_00
This is where they re going to hit plateau, etc.
3
SPEAKER_00
This is when it s going to have the most impact on their life, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
It s going to have less impact on their life because they can t even convert it into experiences they want later on in their life, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
And so it s their adventure, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
Their adventure to have.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t want to control people from the grave.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
Here are the rules I set forth, you must do this.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m just like, what kind of human being does that?
3
SPEAKER_00
Like tries to control another human being with money, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
I want them, like you ve done your training, have the adventure you wanna have.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so, that s how I think about that.
3
SPEAKER_00
Now, the having the zero part is, you know, one of the 17 questions, is if I spend, I have only, the only thing I have is my life energy, and that s the time I have on planet, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
On this planet, the minutes, et cetera.
3
SPEAKER_00
So if I spend that time,
3
SPEAKER_00
going to work, let s say I m just digging holes, digging holes, and they gave me this thing called money.
3
SPEAKER_00
It could be chucking shoes, it could be anything.
3
SPEAKER_00
They give me this thing called money.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then I just hold it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then I die with it.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve essentially wasted my time digging ditches.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve worked for no reward.
3
SPEAKER_00
We can see on his face that that s asinine.
3
SPEAKER_00
You don t want to go do something that you normally wouldn t do with all the other activities you can do on this planet.
3
SPEAKER_00
Almost infinite choices.
3
SPEAKER_00
We don t want to go do that for no reward, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
So we re going to work for something, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
And a lot of us are going to work, you know, some of it we enjoy it, we enjoy what we re doing, we enjoy teaching people, but that reward, when we slice up the reward part, that is for us.
3
SPEAKER_00
to use as a tool in our tool bucket to maximize our fulfillment.
3
SPEAKER_00
Nobody goes into the hardware store, let me get some hammers and saws and then throws them away, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, I guess there are some people who buy hammers and saws, put them in the garage and never use them, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
But that s what happens with a lot of people is they just save, save, save, save, never use it, die.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so I m trying to stop them from doing that and say, hey, let s think about how we can spend and use all your assets, your wealth, your health, and your time, or focusing on your wealth before you die to get maximum fulfillment and the maximum ride.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so one of the axioms is spend all your money down to zero as close as you can before you die.
3
SPEAKER_01
So you do not waste your life working for no reward.
3
SPEAKER_01
So in your 20s, you may not have a ton of excess money, so you might need to save a little bit in your 20s, but also experience life and have adventures.
3
SPEAKER_01
but not be broke and in survival mode constantly, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like there s a- There s different things you re able to do, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
Like you re able to go, let s go hiking with my friends.
3
SPEAKER_00
Let s go biking.
3
SPEAKER_00
There s a lot of experiences.
3
SPEAKER_00
You can do a lot of free things.
3
SPEAKER_00
A lot of free things, a lot of raging, a lot of, you know, Super Saver tickets, back of the bus.
3
SPEAKER_00
House parties, you know.
3
SPEAKER_00
Jeep hop at the concert.
3
SPEAKER_00
Those are some of the greatest times of my life.
3
SPEAKER_00
Backpacking.
3
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_00
Camping, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Exactly, but you re also saving away
3
SPEAKER_00
for security right the the one experience we all want and you know people push back is like the experience is survival we want to be able to survive like if you re out of the game okay then there s no fulfillment right so we want to be able to survive and we need to calculate our survival number like we got to pay rent we got feed ourselves we got to do these things right and we re saving for
3
SPEAKER_00
some sort of calamity where I m unemployed for a couple weeks.
3
SPEAKER_00
But a lot of times, we re saving for, I want to go on this trip.
3
SPEAKER_00
I want to buy this house.
3
SPEAKER_00
I like this car.
3
SPEAKER_00
I want to get the girl the ring.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
3
SPEAKER_00
I want to take my parents on a trip or dinner, whatever it is.
3
SPEAKER_00
I like to attach the money to activities.
3
SPEAKER_00
So they re not just working for some abstract Chuck E. Cheese token that we never cash in.
3
SPEAKER_00
in the Chuck E. Cheese.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so it s like, OK, great idea.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I first like to think about, OK, when we re saving for retirement, we re talking about things like, what s your survival number?
3
SPEAKER_00
Because we re working for survival, and then everything else is choices.
3
SPEAKER_00
Everything else is about the grand adventure.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it s like, OK, what adventures go where in our life?
3
SPEAKER_00
What timeline?
3
SPEAKER_00
Where do they go?
3
SPEAKER_00
And what adventures will I really be doing?
3
SPEAKER_00
in my 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
Now, the Jack LaLanes are like, I m sure, you remember Jack LaLane?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
The juicer?
3
SPEAKER_00
No, no, there used to be a guy when I was growing up, a normal old guy.
3
SPEAKER_01
The health guy, the health guy.
3
SPEAKER_01
The health guy.
3
SPEAKER_01
No, the Jack Juicer.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, he would have like, he would be like 70 years old.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, of course.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m sure he was raging in clubs and spending money on fire at his older, but like, most of us, you know, will be more, have more,
3
SPEAKER_01
More relaxed life later in life.
3
SPEAKER_00
Sedentary lives, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
More relaxed lives that aren t really high in consumption.
3
SPEAKER_00
And the data shows this.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you look at the data, even adjusting for health care costs, because they go, what about health care?
3
SPEAKER_00
Even adjusting for health care costs, seniors spend less money as they age, in aggregate.
3
SPEAKER_00
Why is that?
3
SPEAKER_00
I get asked this question a lot.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I m going to speculate.
3
SPEAKER_00
They can t.
3
SPEAKER_01
They re sitting around all day.
3
SPEAKER_00
They can t spend the money.
3
SPEAKER_00
They can t travel, they can t move.
3
SPEAKER_00
They don t have the energy.
3
SPEAKER_00
They don t have the attitude.
3
SPEAKER_00
or the ability, both, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
It s a penny, I don t wanna go flying.
3
SPEAKER_00
My mom s that way.
3
SPEAKER_00
We had to basically kidnap her to go to Scotland for her 80th birthday.
3
SPEAKER_00
She loved it, it was great, but it was a kidnapping.
3
SPEAKER_01
It takes a whole year to build up the energy.
3
SPEAKER_00
She s like, I gotta go on a plane, I gotta sit, it s cramped, I don t like it, I gotta feel, whatever.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, she had the best time in Scotland, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
But they just don t.
3
SPEAKER_00
You get comfortable with your life.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I tell a story in a book, like I was like, you know,
3
SPEAKER_00
maybe an insensitive gif or a not very thoughtful gif like remember i m young and i m on autopilot i made some money and i was a broker and i was like
3
SPEAKER_00
my grandmother s birthday.
3
SPEAKER_00
I would want money.
3
SPEAKER_00
She s been giving me money since I was a kid, like a dollar for each age.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was like, here you go, here s 10 grand.
3
SPEAKER_00
I gave her 10 grand for her birthday and she bought me a sweater and that was it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, my daughter, Achin, well later on, but that was it.
3
SPEAKER_00
I thought she was going to call up her friends
3
SPEAKER_00
We re going to Vegas, we re going, whatever, like with some adventure.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I was just like, and I m an idiot.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was a complete idiot.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like I just realized like, oh wow, like the money was almost useless to her, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, it was useful as a tool to like give me a sweater that I probably didn t need.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
3
SPEAKER_00
About to move to Texas, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
It s not sweater weather, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
What is the most meaningful thing that people who are more seasoned in life want that money can t give them?
3
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, I would say that money, you can t give it to them.
3
SPEAKER_00
It can be a tool to enhance the experience.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think what they want is, senior people want these relationships, time with their kids, family, loved ones, these adventures.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, I used to say to people, you rarely see people go to the movies alone.
3
SPEAKER_00
We love shared experience.
3
SPEAKER_00
We re wired to connect, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
And so, you know, people have different tribes, different friends, different, etc.
3
SPEAKER_00
But they love taking their whole family.
4
SPEAKER_00
family on an adventure.
4
SPEAKER_00
Now it could just be a picnic, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
And a small one, like at all levels you can do that.
4
SPEAKER_00
But you can make it more fun and people talking about it and having et cetera.
4
SPEAKER_00
So I think, you know, money doesn t give them that, it s their personal connections, but you can make them better.
4
SPEAKER_00
You can make them more fulfilling, you can make it easier for some of your family members.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like, oh, I live so far away, I can t afford to go.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, it s okay, I ll fly you.
4
SPEAKER_00
or I ll pay for the bus ticket, or I ll drive and come pick you up, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
These are the things I think that money can t particularly give them, but can enhance the experience, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
When you, you know, you were talking about this kind of generational fear of our grandparents from the Great Depression to
4
SPEAKER_01
our parents to all these different fears that were passed down generationally, or conditions around money, beliefs around money.
4
SPEAKER_01
Save it for a rainy day, retire with money, all these different things.
4
SPEAKER_01
Which seemed to make sense back then.
4
SPEAKER_00
Right?
4
SPEAKER_01
When maybe it wasn t as abundant, or they were in scarcity, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
Or in survival mode.
4
SPEAKER_01
So maybe that made sense for a period of time for them.
4
SPEAKER_01
But it seems like there s more money available now than ever before.
4
SPEAKER_01
There s more printed, physically, available than ever before.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s for sure.
4
SPEAKER_01
And there s more ways to make money than ever before.
4
SPEAKER_01
There s more side hustles, side gigs, creative endeavors that people can do to make money.
4
SPEAKER_01
What was the actual moment where you broke the generational conditioning around scarcity and unlocked it into abundance for you where it converted into money entering your hands and your bank account?
4
SPEAKER_00
I think it s weird because I was a screen clerk.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think it was making like $16,000 a year, uh, you know, and then driving a limo at night to make ends meet.
4
SPEAKER_00
Um,
4
SPEAKER_00
And my roommate at the time was a waiter and he was making like $77,000 a year.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I was thinking, I can always wait tables.
4
SPEAKER_00
But I wasn t in it for the 16,000, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
I was in it for a career path to really make a bunch of money.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so that s a kind of weird thing.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I was just kind of like, if I lose my ego, which I had no ego back then, I was driving a limo at night.
4
SPEAKER_00
I was like, if I lose my ego, I can always get a job.
4
SPEAKER_00
I can always get a job.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m not gonna be completely busted, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
I might be poor and I ve been broke before and I m okay with that and I ve had great times, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
Like, you know, I have good friends, we goof off, do whatever.
4
SPEAKER_00
But it gave me kind of this freedom.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like there s this safety net of like, I will be able to find something.
4
SPEAKER_00
I remember one of the FCMs, I worked for this guy named Mark, and he was like, I used to be a garbage driver.
4
SPEAKER_00
If they shut this place down, I can always drive a garbage truck.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, if I lose my ego about, like, I m too proud to do this job, right, then I shouldn t always go work.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, there s way more jobs and way more opportunities, and I don t have the fear of, like, moving to another place to get the job or going to another place, et cetera.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, it s painful for a lot of people.
4
SPEAKER_00
People have the fear of going into a new environment and moving, which I think limits them to only local opportunities.
4
SPEAKER_00
but for me i was like i ll go anywhere for the opportunity i ll go to siberia you know you know i was one of those dumb young ambitious people that will like i put me on the moon i will trade right and so like when i got the chance i was in new york city i
4
SPEAKER_00
Left, didn t know anybody, had a mattress and an empty room, and I ll be there.
4
SPEAKER_00
Sir, yes, sir, let s go.
4
SPEAKER_00
And if that didn t work out, so what?
4
SPEAKER_00
I had an adventure.
4
SPEAKER_00
I want the scars.
4
SPEAKER_00
A life with no mistakes, to me, is a uninteresting life.
4
SPEAKER_00
An unfulfilling life, actually.
4
SPEAKER_00
You haven t touched your limits.
4
SPEAKER_00
You don t know what your limits are, because you never fail.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
If everything s always working out and you fail, it s like, well, you never touched your limits.
4
SPEAKER_00
You never really sent this thing until you run so hard where you throw up and you re about to pass out, which, you know, I did in college when they used to make you run, you know, back and forth.
4
SPEAKER_00
You don t know your limits, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
Like, you don t know when you re struggling with the weights, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
Like, I mean, physically, but like also emotionally, like until
4
SPEAKER_00
You ve said, I love you first and you ve gone through the break and you ve done everything you can for the relationship.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like you just don t know, like this is as much as I can give in a relationship, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
This is as much as I can do.
4
SPEAKER_00
This is as far as I can go figuring out this business.
4
SPEAKER_00
I need to bring in help or partners or whatever, you know, like all those things.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so, um, wanting a fulfilling ride is the goal, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
literally the money the money is only a tool to get the fulfillment now i have fancy fulfillment things right and they do it but and i am learning how to use that tool to drive for my fulfillment but i m also learning hey from other professionals and other verticals in the health like how do i optimize my health there s time management books how do i optimize my time and then even in the wet bucket there s like
4
SPEAKER_00
How do I get the better deal to get the same experience and the same fulfillment points when I go to Greece?
4
SPEAKER_00
No, don t do that hotel, get the Airbnb, it ll be nicer, and you actually have more fulfillment, it ll be cheaper, and you have more money for the trip to Japan, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
So I m just saying, at the macro level, this is how these things interact, and this is how you should be thinking about the arc of your life, but then you can go into each vertical and sub-optimize.
4
SPEAKER_01
Right?
4
SPEAKER_01
But what was that psychological moment for you where you realized, oh, I m actually good at making money?
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, wow.
4
SPEAKER_01
And not like, OK, I m making 16 grand a year and I m working a nice, you know, driving a limo.
4
SPEAKER_01
And but actually I m breaking through the generational conditioning that I live in scarcity to now I live in abundance or have the potential to live in abundance.
4
SPEAKER_01
How did you learn that you were worthy and deserving of more money?
4
SPEAKER_01
How did you learn that you were capable of generating?
4
SPEAKER_01
Wealth.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, wow.
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t know if I learned it or I just believed it and it became.
4
SPEAKER_00
Really?
4
SPEAKER_00
So I always tell people, like, I think one of my advantages was that I was delusional.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so they were like, what do you mean?
4
SPEAKER_00
I was like, like, I believed I can do it.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that drove my decisions.
4
SPEAKER_00
Now, that didn t mean I was gonna be successful.
4
SPEAKER_00
I could ve easily believed I was done it and just never have done it, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
Tried a hundred times.
4
SPEAKER_01
Failed and broken, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
But the fact that I had that delusion and that belief that I can do it, that you could throw me in a desert and I d have a fighting chance, I d figure it out, I d drink my own pee, I d do whatever.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
4
SPEAKER_00
Right, right.
4
SPEAKER_00
Whatever it takes.
4
SPEAKER_00
Whatever it takes, I m just gonna do it.
4
SPEAKER_00
I had this delusion that I could do it.
4
SPEAKER_00
And because of that,
4
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes you gotta drink your pee if you re in the desert and you re dying of thirst, you know?
4
SPEAKER_00
Rehydrate.
4
SPEAKER_00
But, you know, eat the bugs, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
That delusion sent me in the course to try and to learn.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so when I was learning, it wasn t like I couldn t learn this or I couldn t learn options trading or whatever.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like, I can do this.
4
SPEAKER_00
I can do this because I had this delusion.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so I think the belief is powerful.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s very, very powerful.
4
SPEAKER_01
How d you get that belief?
4
SPEAKER_01
Most people don t believe in themselves enough to believe they re deserving and worthy of
4
SPEAKER_01
money of wealth of abundance?
4
SPEAKER_01
How did you get to believe you are deserved?
4
SPEAKER_00
Okay, so I had a very
4
SPEAKER_00
Topsy-Turvy relationship with my dad.
4
SPEAKER_00
He came from a different generation, hard-boiled, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
He was pre-civil rights.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, dreams were squashed, and it was openly squashed and legally squashed, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
Like in this, and I was born post-civil rights, okay?
4
SPEAKER_00
And so, one of the things, and I don t wanna turn this into a whole racial story, but one of the advantages of growing up in Jersey City being black is that
4
SPEAKER_00
people in that period, people talk about you.
4
SPEAKER_00
You re accused of this, why you re people like this, you re inferior, you can t do this or whatever.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so what you develop, okay, the good side of that is you don t care what people think.
4
SPEAKER_00
You ve been trained.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know what s true about you and your people and your relatives or whatever?
4
SPEAKER_00
We re not bad people, we re not criminals, I m not whatever, I m not this, I m not inferior, I m not whatever.
4
SPEAKER_00
You just learned to brush that all off, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
And my dad was a badass.
4
SPEAKER_00
And he was like, you can do whatever.
4
SPEAKER_00
Look at all the adversity.
4
SPEAKER_00
we have to deal with and we overcome, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
And so, that not giving a what people think and only listening to your dreams is a superpower forged in adversity, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
And so, like, I just, you just, so, you know, a lot of people walk around like, I don t care what you think or whatever, and they re thinking this about whatever.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m just like, I don t give a, I don t give a. And like, I don t care, that s their problem, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
Like, and everybody cares a little bit, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
extent that people s thoughts will interfere with my priorities I care more right but in general on the not giving a scale I m on the further scale because I grew up in a period where you know I was born in 69 right there s you know racial attitudes going on we re just coming out of the 60s right you know being having that
5
SPEAKER_00
and then just having to deal with that prepares you for this period of like, I m not afraid to look like a fool.
5
SPEAKER_00
You guys thought I was a fool?
5
SPEAKER_00
You thought I was fool at birth, but on skin color.
5
SPEAKER_00
You thought I was inferior at birth on skin color.
5
SPEAKER_00
You thought this about me on skin color.
5
SPEAKER_00
So you just don t give a. And so my dad and the trainings of being a minority in a city during that time period prepared me for like,
5
SPEAKER_00
Who cares?
5
SPEAKER_00
I m already a fool.
5
SPEAKER_00
Might as well try.
5
SPEAKER_01
But some people who maybe have grown up in a lot of the similar adversities, or worse, or a little bit less adversities, they might take that adversity and say, well, I don t have the skills.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m never going to be able to do this.
5
SPEAKER_01
And they stay stuck in that.
5
SPEAKER_01
They don t say, because of this adversity, I don t care, and I m going to go for it.
5
SPEAKER_01
They say, because of this adversity, this is who I am.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think, you know,
5
SPEAKER_00
I think the victim story is marketed to people, and if you don t take that victim story, I think they would have the same experience as me.
5
SPEAKER_00
I don t want to go too deep in it, but I would just say that I wasn t conscious.
5
SPEAKER_00
I just felt it.
5
SPEAKER_00
You know, you just had a pride, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
You re the underdog pride and it came.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I guess some people, they might have, you know, I was lucky I had a father and a mother, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
Who, you know, two college educated parents, my dad via scholarship and my mom later on in life.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so if anybody was designed to succeed, it was me.
5
SPEAKER_00
But there were, you know, when I was led on my own and it s time for me to do it on my own or, you know,
5
SPEAKER_00
Who moves from New York City to Texas to go, you know, like the things, the decisions I made were kind of this like, it can be done.
5
SPEAKER_00
You know, when I had not that much experience, but I knew I can recruit people to build in to do this solar development project in the Nevada desert, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
And then sold it to Capital Dynamics, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
And made my friends and myself a good chunk of change.
5
SPEAKER_00
and also putting solar on the grid, it s just this belief that you can figure it out and you can do it.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so I guess that there are some people who...
5
SPEAKER_00
get dealt the clouds of inferiority and it stunts them.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I would hope that somebody somewhere along the line flips it for them, you know?
5
SPEAKER_00
Flips it for them and says, this is a badge of honor, man.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like you got nothing to lose, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
You got nothing to lose.
5
SPEAKER_00
You got no whatever.
5
SPEAKER_00
Nobody expects anything from you.
5
SPEAKER_00
So when you- No pressure.
5
SPEAKER_00
No pressure.
5
SPEAKER_01
No pressure.
5
SPEAKER_01
This could be your greatest gift.
5
SPEAKER_00
This could be your greatest gift.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so for me, I think it, you know, my greatest gift was like not giving and my willingness to look like a fool.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like I m just winging life like everybody else.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m winging it, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
And so, and I m trying to figure things out and I wrote this book for me.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then I figured if I can save my own life, like not waste my own life, and maybe it will be useful to other people.
5
SPEAKER_00
But occasionally, I get somehow stuck on autopilot and I need to go back in a book or my wife needs to remind me, like, hey, hey, hey, let s think this through.
5
SPEAKER_00
Let s get off autopilot.
5
SPEAKER_00
you know, you re doing these things, you re playing speed chess on life, like how is this the most fulfilling thing for you to be doing in your life right now?
5
SPEAKER_00
It s not.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m deleting.
5
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
5
SPEAKER_00
You know, things like that, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
There s more things that are deeper than that, but I think
5
SPEAKER_00
that early experience and my dad gave me the confidence uh seeing him do it in much harder circumstances right much deeper clouds of inferiority uh much more hard knock like to look at that and then other people in life like i m like you know i go places and i get inspired by people who make it you know a lot of people
5
SPEAKER_00
you know, they, oh, well, they had this help, or they look for the thing that was the one piece of help, but they still overcame a lot.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m like, wow, I m pretty lazy.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, if that person could do it, and look at all the advantages I have, you know, born in the United States of America, growing economy, growing population, jobs, technology, I just was born in such a great era.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, I m like, I can ride this wave, I could surf this wave, I can do it.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m gonna surf this wave of life,
5
SPEAKER_00
and navigate it the way I want to go.
5
SPEAKER_00
You know, and so I just had this delusional belief and it happened to work out.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s amazing.
5
SPEAKER_01
You ve been around a ton of wealthy individuals.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Billionaires, mega billionaires.
5
SPEAKER_01
And you ve also been around a lot of broke people who are in a ton of debt or people who ve lost all their money.
5
SPEAKER_01
You ve seen the both sides of the spectrum.
5
SPEAKER_01
From your perspective at this stage, what would you say are the three keys to really making more money and also being fulfilled with the money you have?
5
SPEAKER_00
Okay, so three keys to making more money.
5
SPEAKER_00
I would have to say that on the earning part, there s a lot of people who speak better to making more money, but I will speak just more in terms of psychology and belief, is this belief that you can and you re entitled.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so when you think you can, you read the book.
5
SPEAKER_00
You read the business book, you read the so-and-so, you make the attempt, et cetera.
5
SPEAKER_00
A lot of people will just sit in stands,
5
SPEAKER_00
Not go up to bat, they won t take the chance.
5
SPEAKER_00
Not only will you take the swing, you ll strike out and you ll do it again, and you ll do it again, and you ll do it again.
5
SPEAKER_00
I was just talking with somebody on Twitter and like, oh yeah, and I break rep, and I was like, isn t it great that you re bankrupt and now you can still go out and earn and take another swing?
5
SPEAKER_00
Lose the ego attachment, get the out there and let s rip it again.
5
SPEAKER_00
You know, and so that s, that s what it is in America, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
Like there s so many people in failure stories and like Steve Jobs got fired and rehired, you know, like things like that, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, like all these learnings that you get, like, wow, you went to school.
5
SPEAKER_00
This is an expensive school, but you know, let s go.
5
SPEAKER_00
You got subject matter expertise.
5
SPEAKER_00
What s the next thing?
5
SPEAKER_00
What s the next dream on your plate?
5
SPEAKER_00
And so when you believe you can, you start to take actions that actually develop your ability to do it.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then so that is one.
5
SPEAKER_00
We ve already been talking about it.
5
SPEAKER_00
You know, there s a saying, like, never tell your dreams to your parents that you want to do it, because even though they love you, they saw you as a teenager and you didn t take out the garbage, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
So they re always like, oh, you sure you really want to do that?
5
SPEAKER_00
Is this a safe job?
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, you have such a good thing going on.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, you can just get a job at the post office or whatever.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, they are afraid for you, right, to go on your adventure.
5
SPEAKER_00
They want to protect you.
5
SPEAKER_00
And they ve also seen you in your clown years.
5
SPEAKER_00
Right?
5
SPEAKER_00
Not the new bad bald Jew, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
And so, and then also, you know, as much as your friends and maybe some of your peer group may love you or not,
5
SPEAKER_00
a lot of people behave out of fear they don t want to look like an idiot they had a great idea they had a thing they want to do and they don t do it they tried it and it failed or they don t want to do it again but they don t do it for you so your success exposes their cowardice right say it again their your success exposes their cowardice right so when you go out and you fail they re like see
5
SPEAKER_00
I m right not to go do that.
5
SPEAKER_00
See what he did?
5
SPEAKER_00
He went out and failed.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I told him he shouldn t have done that.
5
SPEAKER_00
That was crazy.
5
SPEAKER_00
Why did he do that, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
So they feel comfortable in their safe life and they re powerless.
5
SPEAKER_00
They didn t go live their dreams or take the risk or whatever.
5
SPEAKER_00
But if you go succeed, they re like.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m a coward like I had a chance to do I could have done this I could have been to work I could have grinded for a year or two years or no award-living eat ramen and and and and been successful, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
So I always say people like success, but they love a failure.
5
SPEAKER_00
Mmm Right.
5
SPEAKER_00
They love a failure because it Reaffirms that they re doing the right thing and and you re not cowards and so
5
SPEAKER_00
Be very, very careful about your mindset that you re getting from other people.
5
SPEAKER_00
And success is not just doing the thing and making it.
5
SPEAKER_00
Success is living a fulfilled life.
5
SPEAKER_00
It is about the ride.
5
SPEAKER_00
A lot of people say, oh, it s easy for you to say, listen, I ve gone busted twice.
5
SPEAKER_00
I ve been fired, I ve been whatever, and it s been, that has been great.
6
SPEAKER_00
That has been great.
6
SPEAKER_01
Losing your money, getting fired.
6
SPEAKER_00
Getting fired, getting humiliated, people talking behind your back.
6
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh, he s a clown or he can t do this.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like, it s part of it.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s like, I learned who my friends were and who weren t.
6
SPEAKER_00
I know who my supporters were and who weren t.
6
SPEAKER_00
I learned about myself.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like, do I care or do I not care?
6
SPEAKER_00
What things really upset me?
6
SPEAKER_00
What mistakes did I, what did I mistakes?
6
SPEAKER_00
Like, where did I get lazy?
6
SPEAKER_00
Where did I get off track on vision?
6
SPEAKER_00
You know, it s about that.
6
SPEAKER_00
It was great.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then, you know, here I am on this side of the coin, but like, still would have been great.
6
SPEAKER_00
You know, I did, I tried to do some huge project in Central America, went bust, vaporized $10 million.
6
SPEAKER_00
Learned a lot.
6
SPEAKER_00
Gone.
6
SPEAKER_00
like years, time, meetings, whatever, you know?
6
SPEAKER_00
And it s gone.
6
SPEAKER_00
I tried to do an importation project in California, learned all about permitting in California, the interest groups, et cetera, gone, the ride, you know?
6
SPEAKER_00
And it wasn t like now where I have a bunch of money, it was like, that was a very significant.
6
SPEAKER_00
That was all your money.
6
SPEAKER_00
It was like, oh, we might have to cut back on staff here, Mr. Perkins, you know?
6
SPEAKER_00
I think it s like really be careful about how you speak to yourself and the people you keep around you and who you share your dreams with.
6
SPEAKER_01
Wow, that s interesting.
6
SPEAKER_00
And the third thing?
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh man, third thing.
6
SPEAKER_00
The third thing, consistency.
6
SPEAKER_00
Take it seriously.
6
SPEAKER_00
I hear a lot of people like they ll have an idea and they re about to go into the execution phase.
6
SPEAKER_00
So ideas are like a dime a dozen.
6
SPEAKER_00
Right?
6
SPEAKER_00
There s no market for ideas that I think Paul Graham says, right?
6
SPEAKER_00
You can t just go, I m gonna sell you this idea.
6
SPEAKER_00
No, you can sell the business, you can sell the execution.
6
SPEAKER_00
So like 90 something percent of it is the execution.
6
SPEAKER_00
And they go in the execution phase and they don t take it seriously.
6
SPEAKER_00
You know, this is your dream, this is your life.
6
SPEAKER_00
People take video games, simple things, party things more seriously than they ll take their dreams.
6
SPEAKER_00
And so if your dream is this business or this idea or some way of making money,
6
SPEAKER_00
And it could just be like showing up for work on time, right?
6
SPEAKER_00
It doesn t have to be this like, I m starting this entrepreneurial thing.
6
SPEAKER_00
It just be like, I want to be the best person being consistent and taking it seriously.
6
SPEAKER_00
Taking it very seriously.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think more money comes to you when you show the universe how consistent you are with what you care about.
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Use all your resources like as if your life depends on it.
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And the funny thing is,
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These are the hours of your life.
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So your life does depend on it.
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This is your life.
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This is the time period.
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And some people don t take, you know, I ll see guys come in with pitches or things.
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I m like, did you do this?
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Did you use this resource?
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Did you do whatever?
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It s not like they couldn t have thought of it.
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It s not like they couldn t have done it.
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They just didn t because they didn t take it seriously enough.
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You know, so use all your resources at your disposal to drive your fulfillment.
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If your fulfillment is this job and making money or this idea, use all your resources at your disposal to make it happen and take it seriously.
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And so I think a lot of people are flip it with their own dreams.
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I don t know why.
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And I think it comes down to the I ve done it before, too.
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I ve done it in school.
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It s one of those things where, like, you have this fear that you can t do well, so you don t try your best.
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You know what I mean?
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They re like, oh, I m afraid of failing, so I m just not gonna do my best.
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And so, when I failed, I didn t really try that hard.
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You know what I mean?
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I wasn t really trying to lift it that much.
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I wasn t really stretched out or whatever.
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And so, you have this excuse that you didn t try hard, so that s why you failed.
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And so, it makes your ego feel good.
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And I ve done that before and I think other people do it too.
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I don t know if these are the three keys.
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I don t know what you could take out of that.
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But I think it s something that people can take home with and see if that applies to them.
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I love this.
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I m so excited for people to read this.
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I ve got a few final questions for you.
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But die with zero.
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It s a new approach to looking at your life and maximizing your wealth, your health, and your time.
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getting all you can from your money and your life by Bill Perkins.
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Make sure you guys get a few copies of this.
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I think it s got over 3,000 five-star reviews on Amazon.
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So get a copy there, share it with your friends.
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I think there s going to be different insights in here that will give you a perspective on your money and your life.
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that you haven t been thinking about.
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This is some of it we ve covered, but there s a lot more in this book, so make sure to check it out.
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This is a question I ask everyone towards the end.
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It s called the three truths.
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We just asked you three keys to making more money, but this is three truths.
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I d like for you to go into your hypothetical future self as your last day on Earth, and whether there s technological advances and you live to 200 or it s whatever.
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It s your last day in this world.
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Your space suit goes into outer space for the rest of time, and you ve gotten to experience your life exactly the way you want from this moment until then.
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You have a excess of memory dividends, the adventures, the love.
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You wrote it to it till it all fell off.
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I wrote it well.
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Okay.
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But for whatever reason on this last day, everything you ve ever created has to go with you.
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So this book, this conversation, any creation of content in the future, no one has access to it.
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But you get to leave behind three final lessons, and this is your last day.
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From all the experiences you ve had, from the first memory to the last memory dividend,
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You get to share three final things in this.
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Why don t you ask a softball?
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Make it easy for you.
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You re giving me a softball here.
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Yeah, good.
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So anyway, I call this the three truths.
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Okay.
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Got what would be those three truths for you on the final day?
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Wow.
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Um, no matter what the question, love is the answer.
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I, in, um, wow.
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You just on the spot here with these three truths.
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Always do your best.
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And I learned that from, there s a book called The Four Agreements.
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It s my number one recommended book.
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But always do your best.
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And your best is different on different days.
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But if you do your best, you know, whenever I look back and somebody says, what do you regret?
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And a lot of people say, no regrets.
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I m like, anytime I have a regret, it s always related to not doing my best.
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So if I got angry and yelled at somebody, I didn t do my best.
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You re not going to control myself.
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If I got fired or whatever, I didn t do my best.
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I could have figured that out.
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I could have showed up on time or whatever.
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Relationships that once arise, I really didn t do my best.
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And so always do your best.
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Oh my gosh!
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The final last truth.
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I m going to get technical here on this one.
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It s going to come out of nowhere.
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It s going to come out of nowhere.
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Life is movement.
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Life is experience.
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Life is essentially processing information.
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And the more movement and the more information you process, the more life you will have, thus the more fulfillment you can potentially have.
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So get out there and move.
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Mm.
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That s beautiful, man.
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I love this.
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Again, Die With Zero.
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I want you guys to get a few copies of the book.
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You can go to diewithzerobook.com.
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You can go to Amazon, all the different bookstores.
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You re also on Twitter.
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BP22, I believe, is your Twitter.
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If you want my hot, crazy takes.
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I don t recommend it, but if you want to interact with me, you can.
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You ve got a lot of cool stuff on there, on Twitter, Instagram as well, Bill Perkins.
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Although it sounds like your social media will be deleted at some point.
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It s just me raging, enjoying life, exploring the world.
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But if people have questions for you, they can go there and connect with you over on social media and message you.
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And definitely read the book first before you have other questions.
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So get the book, read it, dive in, and have a conversation with a friend of yours about this book.
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This isn t to make anyone wrong or make you wrong in your life, but to just question, am I doing things to maximize my memories, my fulfillment, my health, my time, my relationships?
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Am I doing the things that my future self will be proud of me doing right now?
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And just to ask yourself, and this will give you some of those perspectives.
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Yeah, the book is essentially a fulfillment maximizer.
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That s what I m solving for.
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Here s these other variables, we can optimize for those, but we re really driving net fulfillment.
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It s net fulfillment over net worth.
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Yeah, I love that, man.
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I want to acknowledge you, Bill, before the final question for your journey and where you re at currently, because I know you ve lived a pretty wild life and you ve been around a lot of wild individuals.
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And you have, it seems to me, gotten to a place where you ve found a lot of peace, harmony, and fulfillment internally.
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And I think that s hard for people with a lot of money, even though I think a lot of people think people with a lot of money are fulfilled and find peace.
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I agree with you.
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But not all of them are.
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And you ve been around a lot of billionaires who have more stress than when they didn t have money sometimes, right?
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Maybe some of them have figured it out, but not all of them.
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And I m not saying you have it all figured out, but you re on a journey of peace and harmony, which is beautiful to watch.
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So I acknowledge you for being on that journey.
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Yeah, I mean, it s work.
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I m doing my best.
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I m always trying to work on myself, right?
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I have coaches.
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I have influences.
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I read books.
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And I m here to make mistakes, you know?
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And just realize that, you know, you have to forgive yourself.
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You re human.
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Absolutely.
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Yes.
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What s your contract, by the way?
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Do you remember?
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I m a loving, forgiving, caring man.
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Yes, you are.
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I love it, man.
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Oh, man, you pulled out my contract.
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Do you remember?
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I know loving, forgiving, caring man.
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That s good.
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That s good, man.
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That s amazing.
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For those of the underground who know what the contract is, forward to you guys.
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The final question for you, what s your definition of greatness?
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Wow.
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Oh, wow.
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Wow.
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I ve known, um, this is, this is a, you asked the softballs, don t you?
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Uh, so, so I, you know, I ve, I ve looked at what you, you have in your, in your book and it s like your special mission, right.
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And your time.
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And I would kind of agree with that.
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Um, I think it s a greatness is,
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A life lived in integrity with yourself, with your values, right?
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When I see something great and it s like, you know, they may not have much, whatever, but it was a life lived in integrity with their values and their pursuits and their dreams.
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And so if when I m being great, I m in integrity.
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All my, you know, my priority is in balance.
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I m not skimming.
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I m doing my best.
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I m in integrity.
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When I m out of integrity, I m not so great.
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I m just not so great.
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You know what I mean?
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I m just that guy.
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I m like, oh, breakdown.
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I ve had a breakdown.
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And we see that manifest that in different people.
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People, they re about forgiveness.
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I think about Nelson Mandela living in a prison for most of his life and coming out like, how s this guy so happy and forgiving?
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Somebody who believes in a cause and this is a cause I fight for.
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Women who didn t get recognition in earlier times but believed in what they were doing and diligently lived through it.
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They believed in the cause or whatever they were working on, whether it be physics or women s rights or whatever.
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A life and integrity.
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I hope today s episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness.
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Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today s show with all the important links.
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And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel on apple podcast.
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If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend.
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Leave us a review over on Apple podcast and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis house.
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I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better.
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And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness Newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com slash newsletter.
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And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.
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And now it s time to go out there and do something great.