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 I am so excited to see so many of you in person at the Summit of Greatness, and we are announcing today a new episode with Dr. Marielle Bouquet.
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It's extremely powerful, and I'm even more excited because Dr. Marielle is actually going to be speaking at our upcoming Summit of Greatness event in Columbus, Ohio, September 8th through 10th.
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So make sure you go to summitofgreatness.com to buy your tickets today to hear her in person, as well as the incredible lineup of speakers that we have.
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Check out summitofgreatness.com
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 to see all the amazing speakers we have coming September 8th through 10th.
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Now, for the one and only, Dr. Mariane Bouquet.
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When we're in a nervous system response, and that's, you know, survival mode, you're in a chronic nervous system overhaul, right?
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So, whenever we are in a fight, flight, freeze, or fawn, any non-essential functions, any non-essential, like, organ functions, bodily functions, all of that is mildly shut down.
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 And if your cortical brain is not fully functioning in the ways that it, because it's in survival mode, then you're not really gonna get.
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Welcome to the School of Greatness.
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My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur.
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And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness.
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Thanks for spending some time with me today.
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Now let the class begin.
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 A lot of people are afraid to go back into the stories of their past.
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They're afraid to face the pain, the traumas that they're aware of, and also to face the things they're unaware of, the generational traumas.
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Why is it so hard for us to face these past traumas and pains?
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 It's hard for a number of reasons.
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I mean, I think that a lot of what makes it hard is that people start feeling really unsafe in their own bodies whenever they're talking about trauma.
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Trauma is like that area of mental health that we're still a little bit tentative about touching in conversation.
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 And so it makes it so that people don't necessarily want to get into the nitty-gritty of not only trauma and understanding what trauma is, but also how trauma impacts their own lives, how trauma transcends down their lineage, how trauma has been a part of their lives.
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Because people will exist in trauma, but then have a tough time even acknowledging that it even is a thing.
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So what would you say is the percentage of people that exist in trauma in the U.S. ?
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 Oh, goodness.
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Well, I mean, I saw not too long ago, like this statistic, I think it can't be variable because we got to acknowledge the fact that some people won't actually acknowledge that they're in trauma or know that they're in trauma, right?
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So, but the statistics said somewhere around like 65 or so percent in a lifetime.
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So we, like, someone will, 65% of the population in the US will experience trauma in their lifetime, some element of trauma.
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Now you layer in a pandemic,
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 All right.
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How many people actually face their trauma?
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Of the 65%, you know?
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Now we're talking like really, really tiny numbers, like... Little mountain.
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 Because we have to acknowledge that people are also not in the know that they're existing in trauma.
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People believe that the way that they're experiencing their emotions is status quo.
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Even when- This is the way it's supposed to be.
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It's the way I am.
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It's all they know.
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They've never been taught otherwise.
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What they've seen in their families has been a representation of trauma responses, and it's never been anything unlike what they experience in their day to day.
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So for them to actually even get to the point of saying,
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 Have trauma in my life.
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Oh, I have something to work on or I can like commit to actually working on this I don't have to exist in trauma.
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Mmm is Really unheard of for a lot of people.
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What are the levels of trauma?
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You know, is it like low level trauma versus a high level trauma?
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What are the differences and how can we identify?
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Oh, I think I'm Experiencing trauma in my body right now
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 Well, you know, I think we have to define trauma, right?
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So trauma is basically an acute emotional response to a life event that is extremely stressful.
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Sometimes that life event is threatening to your physical safety, sometimes it's threatening to your psychological safety, sometimes both.
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And so we can understand, okay, this is what trauma is.
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It's an emotional response.
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It's an emotional response to an event that is extremely stressful.
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 So it's like, so it's a trigger.
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You know, it's like if someone says something in your space and you're like, ooh, that triggered me, I don't like that feeling.
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I don't like what they said, I don't like what they did or their actions.
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There's an event happening in the world, your response to it is emotionally charged.
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Is that what I'm hearing you say?
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Correct, it's emotionally charged and it's also directly connected to your nervous system.
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So when people say I'm triggered, what they're saying is some,
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 Aspect of my experience is in fight-flight-freeze-or-fawn.
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Yes, that's what they're saying And if I'm in a trauma response, it's your behavioral response to being in fight-flight-freeze-or-fawn Yeah, you could be reactive or screaming and you'd be like and avoiding Exactly.
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That's the flee The freeze is like dissociating disconnecting from your environment and really being in that protective like mental space and then Collapsing completely is the phone response
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 Or numbing, right?
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It's like people do a lot of numbing, which drugs, alcohol or addictions of any site.
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 My, over the last few years, I've really said to myself, I would love to be able to be in the world and look at every event as a neutral event.
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As there are things happening, I may not like it or agree with it, or I may like it or agree with it.
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Kind of looking at it as a neutral event and seeing how can I consciously communicate
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 something about the event to get a result.
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My goal has been in the last few years is to figure out how can I look at the world as events are happening, but not letting them affect me emotionally.
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Yes, I'm gonna be affected by things, but not letting it hold me back, let's say, from taking action in my life, from being a good partner in my relationships, from taking care of my health.
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That's been kind of my goal.
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 It's a great goal.
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Because I used to grow up feeling very triggered by so many things and then I would be, you know, stuck in bed or I wouldn't take action on the things I wanted.
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Events would consume me.
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Events would hurt me.
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Events would trigger me or people would do those things.
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If someone would cut me off, I would scream in the car, right?
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I would be so triggered, right?
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It was like, I have to beat this person or something.
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 And I tell you what, by practicing this, and it's been doing a lot of self-reflecting, a lot of therapy, and a lot of work on myself, by practicing this the world is neutral mindset, even though it's not, there's a lot of bad things that are happening, it's allowing me to look at it and say, I don't like this, I don't want this to happen in the world, but I'm not gonna let it consume me and hold me back from living a peaceful, harmonious life.
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And that's been kind of my goal.
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It's been very challenging.
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 But I have never felt this much peace in my life.
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And I wonder, is that something we should be thinking about?
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Or is that ignorant of me?
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And I should be triggered more by all the life's events and all the people that are around me and just be so emotionally charged and reactive as opposed to, okay, I see this for what it is, how can I respond from a conscious way?
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 I mean, I think that it's a goal that we should all aim to strive for.
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Like, I think it's a goal that I definitely share with you.
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Really?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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You know, the only thing that the caveat there, right, is that because we're human, because we're designed a certain way, it's not very feasible.
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To protect ourselves.
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Exactly.
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So, you know, and the thing about that design is that anything that actually looks like a potential threat
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 or even catapults you back into time, like actually reminds you of something that has actually already like threatened your existence in some way, your safety in some way, that that's already gonna be something that's gonna revamp that emotional energy.
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And so you're not necessarily gonna be in that neutral place.
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We're not meant to be neutral.
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We're just not designed that way as humans.
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It's not being neutral.
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It's, here's the thing, I tell my girlfriend this, I say, I'm always aware.
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 She's like, how did you know this was happening?
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And I'm like, because I'm looking and I'm scanning the world for threats, right?
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Like it's my natural state to look for threats, but it's trying to not react from a fearful place.
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So I want to be aware and present of like, not just walk around the street and get hit by a car.
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I want to look around and be aware and reactive.
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 but then come back to a centered place of peace is the goal.
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Yeah.
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And I think a lot of what you're talking about is having, there is like this space between when your nervous system says there's a potential.
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Yes.
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Right.
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And then there's the space where there's mindful thought and conscious thought and then conscious action that happens thereafter.
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And I think that's where you're talking about.
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That's what I'm looking to create.
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That's what I'm looking to create.
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That's very, very doable, very feasible for anybody, even individuals that have undergone trauma and especially generational trauma.
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 But it's more of like the psychological threats and the nervous system threats is what I'm hearing you say is what are challenging for a lot of people.
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It's like something happens, an event happens, and it triggers our memory, right?
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A memory from a traumatic experience.
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Yes.
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But what if we remove the memory?
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What would happen then?
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Would we be reactive and triggered?
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Well, you know, I think you're talking a bit about how we can reconfigure
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 even like our cellular memory to actually respond less to what could have been triggering in the past.
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Because we have so many different variations of memory.
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We have olfactory memory, like the scent memory.
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There's so many ways in which our senses can produce triggers for us.
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 Isn't that interesting?
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Right, so we have to- Sound memory.
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Sound memory.
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Music.
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Yeah, there's a familiar taste and it just brings you right back into childhood and you're like, wait, something's up.
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Something's bringing me back into a place that isn't now, right?
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And so we have to talk about the ways in which you reprogram your mind, you reprogram your nervous system to be steady, to feel like it's in a safe place, even if a memory gets re-triggered by way of any of your senses.
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 I think a lot of people can relate to this with friends, family members, relatives, you know, where like something from childhood triggers them as an adult and they haven't figured out how to either heal the memory of the trauma or just be in the environment with people that triggered them so much as a kid growing up.
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If someone has a relative or someone that's in their environment, in their space that triggers them so much,
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 How do they not kick them out of their life completely, but also create a boundary so that it doesn't affect them?
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With the words they say, with the actions they have, things like that.
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 There are different variations of how people do that and that's why I love this work so much because you can be really creative with a client as to what will work for you.
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Where can you create some element of a boundary that can also keep you at close proximity to the people that you love because you still want to be in that space.
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And you want to be able to still be unified in some way but still preserve your energy.
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 In the psychological world, especially in like dialectical behavioral therapy, we call environments that still embody some of the trauma responses or the chaos a strong environment.
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So you're going back into that strong environment that's like immobile, it's inflexible.
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The trauma responses are embedded in that environment and have been for generations.
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People just operate that way at home, right?
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So the biggest thing that we have to do is not only to train the nervous system,
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 to be able to be well in this strong environment, right?
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But to train people to hold on to that, because eventually, even if it's microscopic changes, the environment will shift.
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Because you'll be showing up differently in your environment, so the environment is going to shift accordingly.
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 What are a few strategies someone can do to, I guess, work with their nervous system around people that trigger them?
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You're talking my jam.
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This is stuff I love.
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How can they shift so that the environment shifts?
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And I'll preface it this way.
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This has to be a daily practice.
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People have to get into the practice of nervous system regulation on a daily basis, especially if they come from a lineage of trauma or if they've experienced trauma just in their lifetime.
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 And the three practices that I like the most, I like them because they're accessible, because you can do them anywhere, and because they actually work.
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And the three are like breath work.
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I think people like, the saying take a breath has been so widely popularized.
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Okay, you're taking a breath, I love that.
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I do it all the time.
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Me too.
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That's one of my favorite things that I've been able to acquire as, you know, I've kind of like undergone my own journey that now by default, I do that too.
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 And I think it's so awesome.
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Yeah, you know, because it's almost like your body is taking care of you now, right?
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Like you've done all the work to like, I gotta take care of this body, I gotta take care of this mind, and now it's by default.
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And that is building mastery.
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It's like you have mastery over the task of actually doing deep breaths whenever your body needs it.
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 as opposed to holding it in all the time.
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Yeah, or short breaths or holding it in.
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It's interesting.
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Okay, so number one is breathwork.
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Yeah, and breathwork that is at least for five minutes.
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So the nervous system needs at least that amount of time to actually catch up.
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And it's important to value breathwork even though we have so many ways in which it's been, I think, overdone or people just discount it because it's been talked about so much.
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But the thing about breathwork is that
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 Eventually, your nervous system can't operate in the stress response and in the breathing response simultaneously.
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It has to relax.
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It's going to have to.
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Yeah.
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And so you keep it going until you feel that.
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And for trauma survivors, it can take a little bit longer because there's a lot of undoing, a lot of decades, right?
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And so the breathwork is going to be key.
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One of my other favorites are humming.
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Humming also is- So powerful.
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 Breathing and humming at the same time.
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This is what they teach in yoga and you know deep meditation practices.
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A lot of chanting practices utilize them.
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Yeah, and the OM sound right like really bringing that out actually triggers the parasympathetic nervous response which is
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 the part of the nervous system that initiates, it's also called a ventral vagal response, which initiates a relaxation process, a rest and recovery for the nervous system.
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So it's really essential for people to actually do humming.
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And the same rule applies.
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Do it until you feel like, okay, I'm in a steady place.
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One client one time did so much of the humming after I prescribed it that they were hoarse.
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Yeah, right, right, right, so much.
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 But you know, I think that also is a testament to commitment, right?
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If you can commit to it, do it and do what works.
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And the third one that I like is rocking.
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Rocking?
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Back and forth?
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Yeah, because if you think about the rhythmic element of rocking, it actually is almost like, you know... Soothing, yeah.
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It's soothing.
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It's like a baby in the womb.
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You're rocking back and forth.
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So funny.
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 I naturally rock, you know, pretty much my whole life, especially when I'm standing.
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I've never been good at sitting still or standing still.
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So I naturally just kind of like rock back and forth when I'm standing because otherwise I'll just...it's hard for me to just stand still.
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So breathing at least five minutes a day.
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But I think just trying to remind yourself throughout the day to take deep, slow, intentional breaths.
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Humming.
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 And then rocking your body.
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This could be sitting down, it could be standing, it could be laying down as well.
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Yeah.
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And I think for the busy minds and busy... I'm a busy mind, so I think it works for me to do all three.
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Yeah, of course.
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Yeah, I just integrate it.
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I do my own thing, you know?
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I rock, I breathe, I hum.
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And it's, you know, it allows me to really integrate the practices.
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 to get the full effect and to also, you know, just like, my mind is so preoccupied also with making sure that I'm on the technique that it adds a bit of mindfulness in there because I'm very present-centered.
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Yeah, that's good.
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 What's the difference between the traumas that happen to us and the generational trauma that happened to our ancestors?
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So the major difference is placed in biology.
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So there's a genetic component to intergenerational trauma.
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And so intergenerational trauma has this way in which there is a genetic transmission that happens from parent to child.
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And so it creates a predisposition to vulnerability to stress.
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 Give me an example.
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What's a common example you see in your practice that is a generational story?
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 Well, I mean, you know, there are people that will come in and say, you know, ever since I was a child, it was like difficult to soothe.
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And I was, you know, I had like this hyperactivity.
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There's a lot of trauma survivors that also like believe that their symptoms are coincide with ADHD, because there's a lot of overlap in the experience and in the symptomatology.
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 So there's a lot of that.
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There's like people that, you know, reflect back to their childhood and they say like, I've always had like this experience that felt like I was always anxious.
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When we dig into the layers and we dig deep, we start noticing, okay, especially because I do a lot of like family tree work and like really going down the lineage to know like, well, what are some of the trauma responses or what are some of the responses around also like inflammatory responses like depression or anxiety?
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 or other kind of like mental illness, you know, kind of experiences that were held in the family.
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And when we start going down the family line and we start exploring not only their childhood and how they responded in their childhood, what their attachment patterns were in their childhood, but also
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 how perhaps their mother had an inner child wound, and their mother's mother had an inner child wound.
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And they never healed it.
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Never healed it, expressed it as a trauma response, yelled and screamed in the home, had emotional outbursts.
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What did that do?
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That actually created a disruption in the attachment that you could have had in your childhood.
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It created an insecure attachment.
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You then went out into the world and experienced bullying, a pandemic, all kinds of things.
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And then that trauma, that trauma,
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 you know, propensity or vulnerability got triggered out.
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And so now you are continuing the cycle of intergenerational trauma because it was modeled to you genetically, it was passed down and then, you know.
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Now, is it genetic or is it, let's say the mother breaks the cycle before she heals her trauma, the generational trauma, before she has her child?
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She can.
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 She creates an environment of peace, you know, yeah Is it the environment or is it the biology the genetic code that is passed down because it's like these Environments are kind of passed down you witness your parents doing it You just follow the pattern and you follow the the environment pattern.
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Yeah, is that genetic?
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Is that environment?
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What is both or I?
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 It's both.
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It's like, you know, for as long as psychology has existed, we've had, like, theories on nature-nurture.
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Darwinism also kind of just started that way, like, way back when.
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So nature being, like, the biological aspects of our experiences, and then nurture being, like, the social aspects of our experiences.
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And intergenerational trauma is really the only trauma that is situated at the intersection of both.
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 So we have the nature side.
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Yeah.
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So, you know, on the nature side, the genetic expression, like we're, we're getting a lot of information from like the field of epigenetics, which helps us understand how behavior like impacts genes.
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And so basically what happens is that let's say a mother, a mother has stress and depression in her life.
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Let's say that this mother is actually pregnant at five months gestation.
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So she's pregnant.
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She has a baby in utero and
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 because she's at five months gestation, that baby also has all the precursors sex cells that they're gonna have for their lifetime, regardless of whether it's male or female.
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They already have those.
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So the mother, she experienced chronic trauma her entire life.
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And so because that became the status quo, her genes re-expressed.
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So her genes said, okay, this is the way that things are.
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We are a stressed body.
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And so because her genes are now saying we are predisposed to stress,
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 that's being handed down to the baby in utero, actually at conception.
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So the baby is conceived into genes that are predisposed to stress.
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And because she is already still stressed while she's having this baby, all those stress hormones, namely cortisol, those are being passed down to the baby in utero.
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And what's happening to the precursor cells, those are also ingesting a lot of that stress environment.
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So you have three generations in one body.
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 Genetically being passed down the the stress vulnerability But also the social piece the mother stress, you know, it's like she has all her things going on.
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SPEAKER_01
She's predisposed to trauma She's got all these things going while she's right, you know still pregnant is still stressful.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah Yeah, and so everybody in that lineage of three generations in one body is experiencing stress Is it just three generations or is it like every generation that's had it?
0
SPEAKER_03
Oh
0
SPEAKER_01
 Well, you know, like, I mean, I think it's a little bit of a chicken and egg kind of phenomenon when it comes to generational trauma, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
Like, it's like, who started it, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
But I think I illustrate that because it's, I think, a little bit easier to see, like, oh, well, maybe it started with mom.
0
SPEAKER_01
Maybe she was, you know, the person that.
0
SPEAKER_03
Maybe she had an extreme trauma and there was a reaction response, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
Exactly, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
And so now we at least get to see where the genetic line started from the trauma perspective.
0
SPEAKER_03
 When you think about it that way, you're like, man, I'm carrying the weight of multiple generations of trauma in my jeans, like physical weight, actual weight.
0
SPEAKER_03
That could get a little dark and heavy if you really put the emphasis on that.
0
SPEAKER_03
So how do we actually break that cycle once and for all where none of that trauma stays with us and we don't pass it down to our kids?
0
SPEAKER_01
 It definitely has to be a very, like, whole system overhaul for most folks.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like, it has to be, you know, an integration of holistic practices in our day-to-day lives.
0
SPEAKER_01
Daily.
0
SPEAKER_01
Every single day.
0
SPEAKER_02
Like, a daily practice.
0
SPEAKER_01
Every day.
0
SPEAKER_01
Can't waver on it, because we gotta think about what we're undoing.
0
SPEAKER_01
We're not just undoing the decades of trauma that... That you experience, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
You're undoing all the...
0
SPEAKER_03
 You really need to have a rebirth.
0
SPEAKER_03
It's like a spiritual, psychological, emotional, nervous system rebirth, in my opinion.
0
SPEAKER_03
I feel like I've had a couple of them in the last decade.
0
SPEAKER_03
10 years ago, kind of opening up about my sexual abuse trauma, and then in the last few years, just dealing with all relationships in general, like all intimate relationships that I've had.
0
SPEAKER_03
I've never really faced them until a couple years ago.
0
SPEAKER_03
 And I feel like I had to emotionally, spiritually die in a sense, psychologically, I guess.
0
SPEAKER_03
Allow it to burn and then build from the ashes kind of psychologically.
0
SPEAKER_03
And it's a process, I'm not saying I finished it or whatever, but it's like a constant journey of going back to the different stages of childhood.
0
SPEAKER_03
 healing each stage and integrating that age with my current self.
0
SPEAKER_03
So there's full integration and healing of every different memory from my life that was a traumatic response.
0
SPEAKER_03
And it's been a beautiful journey that has allowed me to have peace and harmony on the inside, which I never had that until really 10 years ago, I didn't start feeling it, but until a couple of years ago when I started feeling more and more peace on the inside.
0
SPEAKER_03
 And it allows me to, again, see the world differently.
0
SPEAKER_03
I'm not saying I'm like not triggered by things, but it allows me to see it and say, OK, this sucks.
0
SPEAKER_03
How can I consciously communicate what I want to change?
0
SPEAKER_03
 not from a reactive, overwhelmed, stressed, traumatic state, which I feel like you can't really get much done from that state.
0
SPEAKER_01
No, I mean, you can push things down and numb and still operate fairly well, but all of that will come back, because you're in survival mode still, because numbing is still survival mode.
0
SPEAKER_03
But you're not thriving, you're not creating an abundant life for yourself when you're in a traumatic response, are we?
0
SPEAKER_01
 No, not at all.
0
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I think, you know, abundance comes from being able to get into the depths of your soul, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
So I love that you're talking about the more like psycho-spiritual angle because that is definitely, I operate from a holistic angle.
0
SPEAKER_01
And so like a lot of the work that I do is very mind, body, spirit.
0
SPEAKER_01
And the spiritual piece is really essential because it's not,
0
SPEAKER_01
 You know, just your connection to higher power is really just also your connection to yourself.
0
SPEAKER_01
When you're like really disconnected from your true authentic self, you're not living abundantly.
0
SPEAKER_01
And if we want generational abundance, then we have to get into the depths of everything that's there, into the mud, if you may.
0
SPEAKER_03
 And I think if you're triggered or have a nervous system response to a lot of things, you're constantly in a survival mode, right?
0
SPEAKER_03
And it's hard to create an abundant...it's hard to dream from a place of survival.
0
SPEAKER_03
It's hard to create something beautiful from that place.
0
SPEAKER_01
 I mean, it makes a lot of sense even from a biological perspective.
0
SPEAKER_01
When we're in a nervous system response, and that's survival mode, you're in a chronic nervous system overhaul, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
So our nervous system is designed to actually make it so that whenever we are in a fight, flight, freeze, or fawn,
0
SPEAKER_01
 Any non-essential functions, any non-essential like organ functions, bodily functions, our brain even, like the cortical region of our brain, all of that is mildly shut down.
0
SPEAKER_01
So if you're talking about like alchemizing and creativity and like all these things,
0
SPEAKER_01
 Those things require a lot of cortical, you know structure like Manifestation of like, you know all the things that you want like really requires for you to get into your creative mind And if your cortical brain is not fully functioning in the ways that it because it's in survival mode Then you're not really gonna get that actualization.
0
SPEAKER_03
It's so interesting because I was I
0
SPEAKER_03
 I was in a relationship once where it was a couple years of stress, right?
0
SPEAKER_03
That was all my responsibility.
0
SPEAKER_03
I should have gotten out, but I stayed in and I wanted to make it work and all these different things.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I remember for like a year before the relationship, I was like getting ready to create a book, write a book.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I was excited about it.
0
SPEAKER_03
And then in the relationship, I had no energy to create because a lot of it was survival in this relationship.
0
SPEAKER_03
 It was kind of like, come back home, is she gonna yell at me?
0
SPEAKER_03
What are we managing today?
0
SPEAKER_03
What's the stress level?
0
SPEAKER_03
All these different things.
0
SPEAKER_03
 And I kept wanting to try to create this book, but I had zero energy or creative thinking to make it happen.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I kept being like, shaming myself.
0
SPEAKER_03
I was like, why do I not have the energy for this?
0
SPEAKER_03
But I was putting all my energy in kind of survival mode and just make this one environment work out.
0
SPEAKER_03
The moment things ended, it's like I finished the book in a few months.
0
SPEAKER_03
It's like I had all this energy and creativity, because I wasn't in that survival mode state.
0
SPEAKER_03
I want to ask you a question about, you mentioned mental health for a moment.
1
SPEAKER_03
 What are the main, I guess, I don't know all the terminology perfectly, so what are the main mental health challenges that people face today?
1
SPEAKER_03
Is it depression?
1
SPEAKER_03
Is it anxiety?
1
SPEAKER_03
Is it ADHD?
1
SPEAKER_03
What are the terminologies of mental health that are prominent today?
1
SPEAKER_00
 Those are primary ones, but actually depression is on a worldwide scale, happens to be one of the leading causes of disability, one of the leading causes of just global unwellness.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's very debilitating kind of condition because it's not just a mental health condition, it's also like a bodily condition.
1
SPEAKER_00
Physically, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's an inflammatory condition.
1
SPEAKER_00
So we know a lot of, you know,
1
SPEAKER_00
 I think some of the initial studies that came out that coincided with, you know, psychotropics, like, you know, some of the medications, you know, from like the 80s, 90s, and all of that, like, helped us to understand some of the ways in which the brain, you know, it operates a certain way to facilitate depression.
1
SPEAKER_00
But we weren't necessarily talking about other studies that were happening, which we're talking about.
1
SPEAKER_00
 more of the immunology that's implicated like all those anything that's inflammatory that's implicated in depression as well diet that's implicated in depression as well a lot of so many factors yeah yeah so many things so depression is like
1
SPEAKER_00
 A big one.
1
SPEAKER_00
But whenever someone comes to me with depression, I always like to look at the full picture, right?
1
SPEAKER_03
So I look at all those... Their whole life.
1
SPEAKER_00
Everything.
1
SPEAKER_00
I look at all those pieces.
1
SPEAKER_00
And depression is one of those mental health conditions that has, there are a number of them, but this one has like a weight identified and classified as either single episode or multiple episode.
1
SPEAKER_00
When a person is in a single episode, I usually look for an environmental trigger.
1
SPEAKER_00
What happened?
1
SPEAKER_00
 what happened, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
But when there's a multiple episode, I wonder a lot more what happened to you.
1
SPEAKER_03
Meaning what?
1
SPEAKER_03
The relationship, food, environment.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Loss of a job.
1
SPEAKER_00
Loss of job, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Divorce.
1
SPEAKER_00
The small T traumas, if you may, like some of the things that are like your day-to-day, everyday traumas, but nothing that really compromises your safety in any way.
1
SPEAKER_02
Right, right.
1
SPEAKER_00
But whenever we're talking about multiple episode depression,
1
SPEAKER_00
 I get very curious about a person's history, their family history, what happened to them, what happened within their family, and I really start digging.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because when you're talking about lifelong depression, you've been depressed your entire life, we have to really start wondering.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Is trauma implicated in your history in some way?
1
SPEAKER_00
And is that what's keeping the undercurrent of depression running?
1
SPEAKER_03
Depression is the main one you hear about.
1
SPEAKER_00
Anxiety.
1
SPEAKER_00
There's psychosis, which we don't talk a lot about.
1
SPEAKER_00
Psychosis is, you know, an extreme version of dissociation.
1
SPEAKER_00
There's some genetic loading there too, especially with schizophrenia.
1
SPEAKER_00
 There's genetic loading to some extent with depression and anxiety.
1
SPEAKER_00
There's trauma.
1
SPEAKER_00
Trauma is a whole separate category.
1
SPEAKER_00
You have complex trauma, you have developmental trauma, you have reactive attachment disorder, which is mostly for children.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it's like the very first sign of like, uh-oh, they're acting a certain way that is different.
1
SPEAKER_00
Maybe something happened.
1
SPEAKER_03
Something happened, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_03
So I'm curious.
1
SPEAKER_03
I just want to understand the terminology of these things.
1
SPEAKER_03
 In the term of a mental health illness, would depression, ADHD, psychosis, would these be considered illnesses?
1
SPEAKER_03
What would these be, the terminology?
1
SPEAKER_00
These, I would say illnesses because... Conditions, what is it?
1
SPEAKER_00
I know there's, you know, there are a number of us, especially the holistic psychologists of the world, like we look at illness and disorder, you know, just...
1
SPEAKER_00
 We we like to not look at it as that in some ways We like to really kind of like look at the global picture, but if we're talking about the diagnostic of an individual Yeah, yeah and and really the manual that we yes as psychologists and psychiatrists have to basically abide by when we're creating diagnostic code Then you know, these are considered mental disorders mental disorders.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay disorders or illnesses.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's actually the same thing
1
SPEAKER_03
 Now, is this disorder, is it a symptom?
1
SPEAKER_00
I hate that word.
1
SPEAKER_00
I know.
1
SPEAKER_03
Is this... But that's what it's called.
1
SPEAKER_03
This disorder, this challenge.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_03
Is it a symptom or is it a disorder?
1
SPEAKER_03
Is it a symptom of trauma or unresolved healing that causes this disorder?
1
SPEAKER_03
And if we heal the trauma, will we be able to eliminate these symptoms or these disorders?
1
SPEAKER_00
 I think we'll be able to get rid of a lot of stuff, a lot of it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Some of it, as I mentioned, because there is that genetic loading, and we got to think of the genetics that we talked about already, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, we're talking about lineages of genetic loadings.
1
SPEAKER_00
So, you know, if we start doing the work now, maybe we'll see a lot less of these disorders happening within our families and our communities.
1
SPEAKER_00
So there is a lot that we can do to actually rectify.
1
SPEAKER_00
 the abundance of mental illness that's out there, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
I believe that there is a lot of the mental illness that exists in the world that has an undercurrent of trauma.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we just haven't talked about that undercurrent or that possibility as much.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I don't know if we'll be able to absolve ourselves of 100% of the mental illness in the world.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I think that we can do a really good job in this generation to break cycles.
1
SPEAKER_03
We're kind of an individual.
1
SPEAKER_03
 Eliminate these mental health issues and an individual level if they are willing to do the deep healing work because essentially Because I feel like cook me if I'm wrong are these these are like symptoms of trauma.
1
SPEAKER_03
You didn't grow up depressed Certain things happen an event happened an environment continue to foster the feelings of depression.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah the state of depression and
1
SPEAKER_03
 And if we can heal the memory, the trauma, the event, and reconnect to our purest self, our whole human self, wouldn't those things start to go away?
1
SPEAKER_00
That's precisely the goal.
1
SPEAKER_00
So, you know, where we started off with psychology and psychiatry is we started off with symptom management.
1
SPEAKER_00
A lot of psychiatry, you know, we're still kind of there a little bit.
1
SPEAKER_03
 Which is like, here's the drug to manage the symptoms.
1
SPEAKER_00
Band-aid.
1
SPEAKER_03
But that's not healing.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_03
That's not resolving.
1
SPEAKER_03
That's just managing it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Precisely.
1
SPEAKER_03
But that doesn't do anything to bring back to wholeness.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
And integrate the person.
1
SPEAKER_03
Integrating the healing, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_00
And that's the goal.
1
SPEAKER_00
That's the goal for me.
1
SPEAKER_00
That's the goal in my practice.
1
SPEAKER_00
 I want full integration of that person.
1
SPEAKER_00
I want them to see, really see their authentic self.
1
SPEAKER_00
Some people have never even had an opportunity to see who they could be at their true core self because it's been masked by so much of the trauma and the symptomatology that's associated with the trauma like the depression and anxiety and all these things.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_03
So you believe that people can heal these mental health challenges as well if they integrate fully?
1
SPEAKER_00
 Many of them, especially the ones that, you know, because I think we have like bipolar disorder and we have, you know, schizophrenia that have a different mechanism to them, but many of them, absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_03
But many of the ones that a lot of people are facing, depression, ADD, ADHD, you know.
1
SPEAKER_03
Depression especially, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_03
Right.
1
SPEAKER_03
How important is finding a meaningful purpose in life support you in overcoming feeling depressed or depression?
1
SPEAKER_00
 It's like so critical.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, 100%.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean like when we're talking about what happens after trauma, meaning making is at the center.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's like one of the biggest things because you have to see your life having some sort of value and that there's meaning associated with your life and with everything that's within your life in order to actually like even feel motivated
1
SPEAKER_00
 to do the heavy lifting that is the healing work to get yourself to the other side.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you have to have meaning in that journey.
1
SPEAKER_00
Meaning making, it's alchemized in that journey, it's created in that journey, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
But I think at the very least you have to have hope that meaning making can be possible.
1
SPEAKER_03
Because what it sounds like to me,
1
SPEAKER_03
 is a lot of people attach meaning in a more negative, harmful state to events, to words, to actions that happen around them.
1
SPEAKER_03
And therefore, that meaning causes more depression, ADHD, or negative thoughts, all these different things that hurt us.
1
SPEAKER_03
But if we created a different meaning around the event, or the words, or the breakup, or the loss of a career, created a new meaning around it,
1
SPEAKER_03
 and had a different intention, different purpose moving forward, we wouldn't have those mental challenges as much.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I mean, I think people, you know, just haven't been trained to ask themselves the right questions around meaning making, right?
1
SPEAKER_03
And so... What's the right questions?
1
SPEAKER_03
Well, the right questions are, you know, well... If someone experiences a traumatic event or big T or little t, what questions should we ask?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, we should be asking, you know,
1
SPEAKER_00
 So questions around, well, let's talk about what was learned in that circumstance.
1
SPEAKER_00
That's a really hard question to ask because sometimes people will be like, you really, you think that that needed to happen?
1
SPEAKER_00
No, it didn't need to happen.
1
SPEAKER_03
It did happen.
1
SPEAKER_00
It happened.
1
SPEAKER_00
You can't change it.
1
SPEAKER_00
You can't.
1
SPEAKER_00
That's in your history now.
1
SPEAKER_00
But what can we take from that experience?
1
SPEAKER_00
And it doesn't even need to be the traumatic event itself, but your response, your reaction.
1
SPEAKER_00
What can we take from that to learn
1
SPEAKER_00
 how to now create a healing protocol for you.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it's about being able to ask questions that get people thinking outside of the box.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because what happens when you're in a state of trauma is that you're frozen in many ways.
1
SPEAKER_00
Your thoughts are frozen.
1
SPEAKER_00
You start thinking a lot of the same things, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
It's a lot of protective functions.
1
SPEAKER_00
Your feelings are frozen in time.
1
SPEAKER_00
People constantly feel worry, anxiety, a lot of things that are
1
SPEAKER_00
 you know, just them being in a protective state.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so if we can start asking questions to freeze some of that up, that's going to be like really key.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I like that question even though, you know, I think it can veer us in different directions, but I'm open to that whenever it comes to work with a client, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Because wherever we go, I'm with them.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm going with you and we're following that path.
1
SPEAKER_03
 If someone stays committed to their story of meaning, that it was this horrible event and it ruined my life, the divorce, the job loss, the injury, whatever it might be, what happens if they hold on to the meaning in a negative way as opposed to, that was a traumatic event, I don't wish it upon anyone, but here's what I learned from it, here's what I gained from it, here's what I'm gonna do with it in a positive way.
1
SPEAKER_03
 What happens to those?
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, the way that I interpret that is that that person is, one, still in a state of fear.
1
SPEAKER_00
They're not ready to really get curious about what other definitions meaning can have in their life.
1
SPEAKER_00
They're just really stuck on the one definition, that it tarnished their lives, that it got in the way, and they're just stuck there.
1
SPEAKER_00
 And so if that's the case, then my role as a clinician or their role as a person that wants to get out of it, hopefully, is to work on the fear.
1
SPEAKER_00
You got to work on where is fear trapped?
1
SPEAKER_00
How is the nervous system operating around fear, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Like where can we free them up in a bodily sense because the nervous system requires a lot of that body-based work.
1
SPEAKER_00
 And so we have to like really get curious about that and like go in that direction versus you know The the the questions are very mind focused, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
But we need the body-based practices in order to create safety in the body to release also Right to release the fear the pain the trauma and reconnect to the safety of your body.
1
SPEAKER_03
Is that right?
1
SPEAKER_00
exactly and so that when a person can feel that there is safety in their body they can feel that they are
1
SPEAKER_00
 can actually go into the depths of their minds in a way that doesn't feel scary and existential.
1
SPEAKER_03
 Right.
1
SPEAKER_03
Speaking of fear, I saw somewhere recently, I don't know if this is true, but I saw somewhere recently that we are, that human beings are born with three fears.
1
SPEAKER_03
The fear of loud noises, the fear of falling, and the fear of abandonment.
1
SPEAKER_03
I don't know if that's true, but if it is, we tend to build, add more fears as time go on.
1
SPEAKER_03
I don't know if that's true, if those are the only three, or we don't have fears at all.
1
SPEAKER_03
 but it seems like we gather, we collect more fears through childhood and adulthood.
1
SPEAKER_03
Why do you think we gather so many fears and collect them?
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, I think you're talking about like primary fears, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Like those feel like primary fears to me.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like they're like what you start off with as a baby, you're going to have that startle response as a baby.
1
SPEAKER_00
You're going to need to feel deeply connected and attuned to a caregiver.
1
SPEAKER_03
Otherwise you don't live.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Basically, right and so like it's basically a fear of losing life or fear of losing safety So it makes a lot of sense But the accumulation of it also makes sense because we operate in mental representations and categories basically So we have specific categories in our minds that are primarily created in our childhood and then everything else that happens in life We put in the different categories in the buckets of our minds and they just start accumulating and growing So if you have a big fear bucket then you're gonna have a lot of
1
SPEAKER_00
 fears that are going to come into your life and stay there because your fear bucket is just so enormous.
1
SPEAKER_03
What's the biggest fear you've had to overcome?
1
SPEAKER_03
The thing that held you back the most?
1
SPEAKER_00
 I think for me, you know, I grew up in poverty and that for me, the thing about growing up in poverty is that it's not only the fear of do we have enough, it's also that that
1
SPEAKER_00
 mental expression, that narrative stays with you throughout life.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it creates that, now we call it like deficit mentality, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Or other kinds of things.
1
SPEAKER_00
Scarcity.
1
SPEAKER_00
Scarcity mindset, all those things, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
And so, not having enough.
1
SPEAKER_00
 not being able to survive in that way has definitely been an enormous fear for me throughout life because I was born into such poverty that I remember with my grandmother, she carried a bucket of water to bring to her home from this tiny little spring, not having outdoor plumbing, indoor plumbing in the Dominican Republic.
1
SPEAKER_00
Wow, you grew up there?
1
SPEAKER_00
 I was there until I was five, and then I came to the U.S.
1
SPEAKER_00
You see that growing up, and there's that much scarcity that to ever go back to anything like that feels like it can happen at any time.
1
SPEAKER_03
 It's like you don't want to go back there.
1
SPEAKER_03
I remember when I was 20 23 24 25 that range I was living on my sister's couch I had no money and I was in student loan debt at the time living off three credit cards so 2008 when kind of the economy crashed that time and I remember thinking like I
1
SPEAKER_03
 this is not fun, you know, this is not fun, like eating my sister's leftovers and like not being able to pay for rent and just figuring out how we're gonna get food for the next couple of days, right?
1
SPEAKER_03
Like where's the money gonna come from?
1
SPEAKER_03
Now I had a roof over my head, but I wasn't providing for myself, right?
1
SPEAKER_03
It was like my sister was, even though I'm a 20 something year old man, right?
1
SPEAKER_03
 And I remember thinking to myself, after I started to make money for, I don't know, probably five years, I remember thinking, I just never want to go back there.
1
SPEAKER_03
So I was still kind of in a survival mode, even though I had money, like I had enough money in the bank for six months and then a year to like live off of, I was still kind of operating off of scarcity and not enough, and I need more to feel safe and secure.
1
SPEAKER_03
And I never want to go back to that place.
1
SPEAKER_03
 And it's challenging to break that physically, the nervous system, and also mentally, psychologically, and just knowing you'll be able to generate and create enough.
1
SPEAKER_03
It's a challenge to break through.
1
SPEAKER_00
It is.
1
SPEAKER_00
And the actual logistical challenge, I mean, that was there for sure.
1
SPEAKER_00
I had to do a lot to be able to break away from that and to help my family navigate out of that position of working class poverty.
1
SPEAKER_00
 The the psychological piece that takes serious work That's a serious work, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Cuz you you know, like it's about money management.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's about you know, like Things that I may desire and want to purchase but that's always in the back of my mind, you know and so like it's like really kind of Learning a whole new set of skills.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I learned with money.
1
SPEAKER_03
It was like I
1
SPEAKER_03
 I'm still educating myself today.
1
SPEAKER_03
I'm still learning and teaching myself different things about money from saving to investing to tax strategies to managing it, all these different things.
1
SPEAKER_03
I don't think you ever stop learning.
1
SPEAKER_03
And because I'm learning, I feel more and more confident with it.
1
SPEAKER_03
I feel more and more.
1
SPEAKER_03
 okay with it, but if I don't understand it, how am I gonna feel okay with it?
1
SPEAKER_03
And most of us were never taught this as kids.
1
SPEAKER_03
We're not taught this in schools, how to manage money, and if we grew up in lower income houses, we probably weren't taught how to manage it either.
1
SPEAKER_03
 So it's like you've really got to self-educate yourself on so many areas of life if you didn't learn.
1
SPEAKER_03
Money, healing, relationships, how to deal with failure, all these things.
1
SPEAKER_03
That's why I created the School of Greatness because it's everything I wish I had when I was growing up.
1
SPEAKER_03
There are some people that I've met who can't remember their childhood.
1
SPEAKER_03
 I met this one girl, I don't know, about 10 years ago.
1
SPEAKER_03
She was like, I don't remember anything before 17.
1
SPEAKER_03
I go, what?
1
SPEAKER_03
It just didn't make sense to me, right?
1
SPEAKER_03
I know I have, you know, I don't remember every year of my childhood and I don't remember everything, but if I can go back to that place or I see a photo, I'm like, yeah, I remember this.
1
SPEAKER_03
But when I met someone for the first time and said they didn't remember before 17, I go, that's interesting.
1
SPEAKER_03
I later realized there was a lot of trauma.
1
SPEAKER_03
 So if someone isn't able to recall childhood memories in general and they just have it blocked, is that because of trauma or is that something else?
1
SPEAKER_00
 So, trauma can be very much implicated.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, like, you know, humans, we're so variable that, you know, there can be other things.
1
SPEAKER_00
But when it comes to this type of experience that you're talking about and people saying, I don't remember a whole chunk of my life, I don't remember my childhood, it is incredibly common for trauma survivors, especially individuals that have undergone either complex trauma or
1
SPEAKER_00
 chronic trauma, or just have been in that trauma response and that survival mode for almost a lifetime.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I mean, there is a bit of a biological, psychological explanation for that.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I think we gotta like really get into memory and how it operates.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, what is memory, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
So we have short-term memory, we have long-term memory.
1
SPEAKER_00
And short-term memory really operates at this like 30-second interval.
1
SPEAKER_00
 And anything that isn't encoded into long-term memory dissolves with short-term memory.
1
SPEAKER_00
You no longer remember it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now, when we're talking about the nervous system, remember we have like a dissociative process.
1
SPEAKER_00
That dissociative process makes it so that also like you're in, you're operating only with the essential functions that you need, which means that that memory encoding, that's compromised too.
1
SPEAKER_00
 So when you're in constant survival mode and your memory isn't shifting into long-term memory, you're not encoding that, you can't later retrieve it.
1
SPEAKER_00
So retrieval isn't going to be possible later in life.
1
SPEAKER_00
You're not going to remember what happened when you were eight years old because it was a compromising of your memory process.
1
SPEAKER_03
Is there a way to remember things if you've blocked it for so long or is it kind of you've lost these memories?
1
SPEAKER_00
 I mean, especially in childhood, some of it we're supposed to lose, pruning away.
1
SPEAKER_00
We're not designed to remember everything.
1
SPEAKER_00
But if memories weren't encoded into long-term memory, it's gonna be hard to remember them because they're just not there.
1
SPEAKER_00
However, I think we have to further break down memory because we have implicit and explicit memory.
1
SPEAKER_00
What's the difference?
1
SPEAKER_00
 So, explicit memory is more of those like, you know, you remember, you know, that childhood girlfriend that you had, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Like you remember moments about, like you remember what you had for breakfast.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's like very concrete, conscious details of your memory.
1
SPEAKER_00
Implicit memory is more like sensory memory.
1
SPEAKER_00
 So the body still remembers.
1
SPEAKER_03
The smell, the sight, the experience, the music.
1
SPEAKER_00
The touch, like we remember in a more implicit way, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
And so like people when they're talking about not remembering, they're talking about explicit memory, not implicit.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because implicit, they're remembering a lot because they're living in that body that's constantly reminding them through triggers that there's a memory there.
1
SPEAKER_03
Let's say someone is...
1
SPEAKER_03
 got out all the things, you know, depression, all the stress, nervous system is broken down, they're just in a low state, all these things.
1
SPEAKER_03
Everything triggers them, right?
1
SPEAKER_03
If you wipe their memory off and they woke up without having the memory, cellular memory or the mental memory of the trauma, the little T, big T, the chronic trauma, all these different things,
1
SPEAKER_03
 What would happen?
1
SPEAKER_03
It's a hypothetical scenario.
1
SPEAKER_03
But if you were able to eliminate these memories, wouldn't you essentially be more positive or have like a more, a better outlook on life?
1
SPEAKER_00
 I mean, I think that you, you know, could have more of like what we talked about earlier, that neutrality, for sure, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, I think that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, like, because everything will be new, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
And so you won't have something that actually is attached to emotion.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, an event is not attached to emotion.
1
SPEAKER_00
And, you know, a scent is not attached to emotion.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you won't have the trigger response.
1
SPEAKER_00
You'll just be looking at something with a new set of eyes.
1
SPEAKER_00
So, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_03
 I just feel like a lot of people doubt themselves and they have a lot of self-doubt tied to previous events, right?
1
SPEAKER_03
I failed, this person made fun of me, I was laughed at, I was bullied, they broke up with me, I lost the job, whatever it is, all these events.
1
SPEAKER_03
 then attach their self-worth, their identity, and they doubt themselves because of a series of events.
1
SPEAKER_03
How do we break that so people can learn to believe in themselves more even if they had different events happen that didn't go their way?
1
SPEAKER_00
 Well, I think some of it has to be like a reconfiguration of their self-concept.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like it's very self-oriented, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Because like now we're talking about when someone said something to them about their clothes, how now they like, you know, have this like perception of themselves and how they dress that's negative, you know, or ill-fitted because of what was said.
1
SPEAKER_00
So now it's become a part of the self, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
 So a lot of the work has to be central to the self.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like how do we get you to a place where you're embodying either a more neutral or more positive sense of self and that your core self isn't an amalgamation of all of these negative experiences and how you then translate it and internalize those into how you see yourself and how you see the world.
1
SPEAKER_03
How do you teach that to someone?
1
SPEAKER_03
What's something someone can do if they're listening or watching and they don't
1
SPEAKER_03
 believe in themselves, that they have a series of events that remind them, see there I go again, I'm not good enough for this or I don't deserve this.
1
SPEAKER_03
What can they do to start having a different view of self?
1
SPEAKER_00
 I like the idea of challenging, of challenging thoughts, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
But the thing about challenging thoughts is that the first step is that we have to write down the limiting thoughts that have been there, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
We have to write down the emotions that have been associated with those limiting thoughts.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then we have to challenge those thoughts, like actively challenge them.
1
SPEAKER_00
There's so many of us that are walking around this world not having challenged a lot of those
1
SPEAKER_00
 initial ideas that we've created around ourselves, regardless of where they came from.
1
SPEAKER_00
They could have been from a parent who told you, you know, you disappoint me, you're not good enough, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
And that manifested into a mental representation of themselves as not being good enough, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
But we have to look at the root and then challenge the root and then also like work on the emotional piece.
1
SPEAKER_00
An emotional piece, I like the work around emotions to be like very body centered because emotions are very situated in the body.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so,
1
SPEAKER_00
 It's a it's a mind practice and that we're writing all these things down, but it's also a body practice.
1
SPEAKER_03
It's an integration It is mind always you got to integrate it You can't just be analytical around it.
1
SPEAKER_03
If your body is still reactive.
1
SPEAKER_03
You've got to integrate the two.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah always What do you think holds you back from your highest self right now?
1
SPEAKER_02
Hmm
1
SPEAKER_00
 I definitely have had my fair share of imposter syndrome, of wondering if I meet the mark.
1
SPEAKER_00
I've been in spaces where I've been the only person that looks like me, and so it's definitely made me wonder.
1
SPEAKER_03
Made me look like you, kind, energetic.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, you're so kind.
1
SPEAKER_00
Generous.
1
SPEAKER_00
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
1
SPEAKER_00
I receive all of it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Great smile.
1
SPEAKER_00
Thank you, thank you.
1
SPEAKER_00
What do you mean?
1
SPEAKER_00
 I mean, you know, like, I'm a black Latina, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm from the working class.
1
SPEAKER_00
I've entered a lot of elite spaces, you know, for education.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, I got an Ivy League education for my doctorate, and I was very much, you know, not seeing myself mirrored in a lot of these spaces.
1
SPEAKER_00
So it definitely, like, made me wonder a lot.
1
SPEAKER_03
You were standing out, as we were saying.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Yeah, and it can be very isolated, that experience.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so I think that it makes you wonder, do I belong here?
1
SPEAKER_00
Is my voice welcome?
1
SPEAKER_00
That sort of thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
So that definitely has been something that has been a struggle for me.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I think it will forever be something that I know has been there, but I work really, really hard on a daily basis.
1
SPEAKER_03
So if you're coaching someone else that's in a similar situation,
1
SPEAKER_03
 They stand out in their industry.
1
SPEAKER_03
They look different.
1
SPEAKER_03
They don't fit in.
1
SPEAKER_03
I guess right.
1
SPEAKER_03
They're not mirrored as you said Yeah, what would you how would you coach them?
1
SPEAKER_03
If they said they they feel like I don't know if I belong or I feel like an imposter What would you how would you coach them to interpret that differently?
1
SPEAKER_00
 Yeah, I love that question.
1
SPEAKER_00
I would, you know, I would start with the body always, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
So I would definitely, like, do some imagery exercises with them to, like, place them in their mind in that space and do some relaxation exercises with them around that because that's always my thing.
1
SPEAKER_03
To get them relaxed first.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_03
To start creating from that space.
1
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, I want safety.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Always safety.
1
SPEAKER_00
 However, I do always want to ask, like, who told you you don't belong?
1
SPEAKER_00
Because that's a question that we're not explicitly asking ourselves.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, someone said that in the STEM field, like, women aren't, you know,
1
SPEAKER_00
 there isn't open spaces for women, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, something happened there, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Who said that women don't belong in STEM?
1
SPEAKER_00
And so that's, you know, like, I always want to ask that question.
1
SPEAKER_00
Of course, we know some of the answer.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I think societally, you know, like, there's been like, ways in which we, we've created spaces that have been for specific populations.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so we have, we have to start asking, like, who
2
SPEAKER_01
 said that there isn't a space that's open for you.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I think that the reason why I asked that question is because I think that it opens up the mind to really wonder about that.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think it also offers a little bit of empowerment to the person that's receiving that question.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, yeah, who told me that I don't belong?
2
SPEAKER_01
And really stepping into that.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I've done that for myself, and it's been incredibly helpful.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it's good.
2
SPEAKER_00
What else would you say after asking that question?
2
SPEAKER_00
How else would you coach that person?
2
SPEAKER_01
 I would want them to really do some heavy lifting around the emotional piece.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think that that's always gonna be an important aspect of doing work that's imposter syndrome centered, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Because at the heart of it is fear, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
And so fear of, there's a fear of a lot of things, but fear of belonging is a big one, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, do I belong?
2
SPEAKER_01
 And so if we're talking about fear of belonging, if we're talking about not feeling good enough, a lot of those, you know, areas are what we really need to work on.
2
SPEAKER_01
So that's the depth work, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
The other stuff is a little bit more superficial.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's like where we start, but then we got to get into the emotion part.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, interesting.
2
SPEAKER_00
What has been the thing you're most proud of that you've overcome?
2
SPEAKER_01
 You know, definitely getting to this level of education I think is something that I hold a lot of pride around because I worked so hard and I was able to overcome at least like the bigger pieces of imposter syndrome around that and also a lot of things.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like I wasn't taught to operate at this level, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
And so a lot of it was self-taught.
2
SPEAKER_00
At what level?
2
SPEAKER_01
 At this level of education, I'm definitely a first generation in that regard.
2
SPEAKER_01
There's a lot of bureaucracies that you've got to learn and know when you're operating in educational spaces that are higher ed in this way.
2
SPEAKER_01
 The fact that I'm a very intuitive person, so my own intuition helped me to really scan environments in a way that helped me to learn the environment in a very concrete way and then learn to operate within it, but also just be myself.
2
SPEAKER_01
I bring myself.
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SPEAKER_01
I say I bring my sauce.
2
SPEAKER_01
 Because I'm like, I'm going to bring my whole Dominican self into whatever space that I'm a part of.
2
SPEAKER_01
And everybody who's around me, you'll have to adjust, rather than me adjusting to the environment and reconfiguring myself.
2
SPEAKER_01
So that's been something that I've been really proud of, just stepping into spaces where I've felt like before I don't belong and just proclaiming that I do.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that's cool.
2
SPEAKER_00
I love this stuff.
2
SPEAKER_00
 You've got, your social media is amazing.
2
SPEAKER_00
You've got a lot of great resources there.
2
SPEAKER_00
You're teaching, you're inspiring, you're entertaining, and you're connecting people to this work of healing generational trauma.
2
SPEAKER_00
You're also working on a book right now.
2
SPEAKER_00
You've got a course you're working on that's coming out soon.
2
SPEAKER_00
What is this course gonna be teaching people about specifically?
2
SPEAKER_01
 It's going to really get into the depths of trauma and how we heal from trauma through a number of holistic practices.
2
SPEAKER_01
So my hope is that for individuals that are just hoping to really enhance their knowledge of how to really integrate practices that
2
SPEAKER_01
 are going to be very helpful in the trauma journey, or for healer practitioners that are out there wanting to really enhance their own practice, coaches, whomever, right, and be trauma-informed, that this can be a really good hub and center for them to be able to acquire that knowledge.
2
SPEAKER_00
When is this course coming out, and how can we get access to it?
2
SPEAKER_01
 It's coming out in September, and access can be through my website, which is drmarielbouquet.com.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and click on courses, and there I am.
2
SPEAKER_00
There you are.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Do you have a newsletter, too, we can subscribe to?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I do, I do, and I actually offer one coping skill each week on my newsletter.
2
SPEAKER_01
Really?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
So one coping skill that people can integrate into their week, and then also, you know, all things my world, basically.
2
SPEAKER_00
 That's cool, very cool.
2
SPEAKER_00
So if we go to drmarielbouquet.com, they can get the newsletter, they can find out about the course, see you on social media as well.
2
SPEAKER_00
Instagram's your main thing?
2
SPEAKER_01
 Instagram and TikTok, I like TikTok, it's a lot of fun.
2
SPEAKER_01
I like to lighten the conversation on drama a little bit, because it is very heavy.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's heavy, it's dark.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's very dark.
2
SPEAKER_00
A lot of people don't want to face it.
2
SPEAKER_01
But that's the thing, is that if I can open up just a little, a small smidgen of like,
2
SPEAKER_01
 Conversation in there like people start getting really curious about trauma and I think that you know on tick-tock I've been able to do that where I you know I infuse a little bit of humor and people are like, okay It's not that scary to talk about I can do this What do you think's gonna happen in the world over the next three to five years if people don't face their traumas?
2
SPEAKER_01
 I think we're going to see a lot of, it's not just going to be on the personal end that we'll see the continuation of these generational cycles of trauma.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think it's going to be that we're going to continue to institute policies.
2
SPEAKER_01
We're going to continue to, you know, just operate in the world and in a way that is driven by a lot of hostility and aggression that is a representation of unhealed wounds.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
 It's interesting, in 2017, I wrote a book called The Mask of Masculinity, which is about how men can start to heal, can start to drop the masks that try to protect them from the outside world and reveal themselves, be a little more vulnerable, open up, and really just show their authentic self from a healed place, not from a hurt place or defensive place.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because I believe that
2
SPEAKER_00
 A lot of the problems that are happening in the world are caused by men who are wearing a mask, who are hurt, who are angry, who are traumatized.
2
SPEAKER_00
And there hasn't been a safe space specifically for men until I think more recently to start opening up about their traumas.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don't think it's been acceptable for men to talk about these things.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And so I'm so glad you're doing this work.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm so glad there's a lot of people doing this work, because I just feel like people need resources to start the healing journey.
2
SPEAKER_00
As my therapist says, it's a journey, it's not a one-time event where you're just, I'm healed, and it's all better.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's an integration of healing process over time.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I feel like more people like you need to be doing this type of work and teaching us how to heal, because I think,
2
SPEAKER_00
 If we can all heal, men specifically, speaking from my point of view, it's like, you know, if men can learn to heal and be more loving and authentic, then I think it's just gonna be a lot more harmonious environment in the world in general, so.
2
SPEAKER_01
I couldn't agree more.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I also think that, you know, a lot of women need to heal too.
2
SPEAKER_00
There's a lot of traumas that women can heal too.
2
SPEAKER_00
 they can create a safe space for men to be their authentic selves.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's like working together more as opposed to arguing and fighting as much.
2
SPEAKER_00
That's my intention, that's my mission here.
2
SPEAKER_01
I love it, I love it.
2
SPEAKER_01
It creates a lot more vulnerability.
2
SPEAKER_01
From that place of vulnerability, we can bridge curiosity, safety.
2
SPEAKER_01
There's so much that comes from that place where the work is done.
2
SPEAKER_01
Vulnerability and courage takes root and it creates definitely more of that harmony you're speaking to.
2
SPEAKER_00
 This is the challenge, I just wish people could have conversations consciously.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, just like, maybe I don't agree with a lot of things that you do, or other people do, or they don't agree with me, whatever.
2
SPEAKER_00
But to be able to question, and like you said, did you say question or did you say challenge the thoughts?
2
SPEAKER_00
Challenge the ideas, but not from a aggressive emotional state.
2
SPEAKER_00
I feel like if we can question and have a conversation from a place of calm,
2
SPEAKER_00
 Then it's gonna be able to help us come together more in just a lot of different areas in life.
2
SPEAKER_01
So that's my intention Yeah starts with the nervous system though, you know, like if we're if we're like heavily triggered and you know, the conversation that we're having is is is triggering because it's disrupting, you know, whatever is going on in our minds like or
2
SPEAKER_01
 Or it's just challenging us in a way where it's like pushing us out of our comfort zone.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it makes us feel uncomfortable.
2
SPEAKER_00
And we're like, ah, I need to protect myself.
2
SPEAKER_00
And we're going to scream and react and call you an idiot or whatever.
2
SPEAKER_01
Go straight into fight mode.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
But you can't solve anything that way, can you?
2
SPEAKER_01
It's really challenging to have... You can't be creative and solution-oriented in the ways that you would be if you were in more of that neutral state.
2
SPEAKER_00
I love that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
 It's a question I ask everyone at the end.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's called the three truths.
2
SPEAKER_00
So imagine, hypothetically, it's your last day on Earth many years away.
2
SPEAKER_00
You live as long as you want to live, but it's your last day.
2
SPEAKER_00
As old as you want to be.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you accomplish all your wildest dreams.
2
SPEAKER_00
But for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your work with you to another place.
2
SPEAKER_00
Your books, your courses, your content.
2
SPEAKER_00
We don't have access anymore.
2
SPEAKER_00
But we have access to
2
SPEAKER_00
 Three things that you would leave behind with the world, three lessons or three truths.
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SPEAKER_00
What would you say are those three truths for you?
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 It would be that you are not just what happened to you.
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You are abundantly so much more.
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I would let people know that healing is a lot of work.
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It sucks.
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It just bends you and twists you into different uncomfortable shapes, but it is incredibly worth it.
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 And that no matter where you are in your healing journey, today is always a good day to start to break the cycle.
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 I wanna acknowledge you, Mariel, for your journey, for stepping into this field of practice you were telling me before about how you had another career in advertising in New York City.
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And then you were volunteering on the weekends, and you found more meaning and fulfillment in being of service to helping people with these different challenges in their life.
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And you said, I'm gonna take on eight more years of school, I'm gonna take on this college debt and student loans,
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 To follow a mission a purpose that was more meaningful for you It's really hard for a lot of people to do and so I really acknowledge you for listening to your heart for listening to your truth for taking that step and Continually adding value to so many people in the world by doing the individual practice one-on-one that you do the coaching you do by sharing this content on social media
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 by working on books and courses, I really acknowledge you for stepping into this season of your life which is adding a lot of value for you and to the world.
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It's really meaningful to witness and to see you overcome so much to get to where you're at.
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Thank you.
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I really acknowledge you for that, yeah.
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 Thank you, I really appreciate that.
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Of course, of course.
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It's been a journey I treasure and I'm grateful that I'm here and thank you for highlighting my journey.
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Of course, yeah, of course.
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People can follow you, we'll have everything linked up.
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Your website, drmarielbouquet.com, social media, drmarielbouquet.
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Final question for you, what's your definition of greatness?
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 Well, greatness to me, you know, it's found in everyday people, the people that alchemize from the ashes, you know, and become cycle breakers very much like you have.
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And I just think they're the bravest souls on this planet, and that to me is really great.
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Gracias.
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It was such a pleasure.
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Thank you.
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Appreciate it.
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Thank you.
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 Thank you so much for listening.
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I hope you enjoyed today's episode and inspired you on your journey towards greatness.
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Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links.
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And also make sure to share this with a friend and subscribe over on Apple podcasts as well.
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 I really love hearing feedback from you guys, so share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most.
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And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.
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And now it's time to go out there and do something great.