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Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert.
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I m Nick Shepard.
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I m joined by Monica Padman.
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Hi there.
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Hello there.
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Your friend is here.
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My old buddy, my sweet, sweet friend is here, Bradley Cooper.
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I don t need to tell you about Bradley Cooper, but I will anyways, because he s an award-winning actor and a filmmaker.
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He s nominated right now for 15 to 17 Academy Awards for his film Maestro.
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But before that, of course, we have a Star is Born, The Hangover, American Sniper, Silver Lines Playbook, Limitless.
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You know, hey, Cooper, what a fucking resume you ve put together.
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You know, time s just passing and all of a sudden this list here assembles and I m staring at it and it s what a career he s built.
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That s incredible.
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But you forgot to say Hit and Run and Brothers Justice.
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Hit and Run and Brothers Justice.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Let us not forget.
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His movie Maestro is out now on Netflix.
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This is my favorite conversation I ve had with him in years.
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That s great.
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It was lovely.
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Yeah.
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I really, really just like, I just, it was just very impactful and I really, really enjoyed it.
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So please enjoy my friend, Bradley Cooper.
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I was worried about the traffic, but I m okay.
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Yeah, you did fine.
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Yeah.
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Tell me about the Oscar luncheon.
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What happens there?
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What s that like?
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Klugman s coming.
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Okay, great.
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Kluggy will be in tow.
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You mean the voice of T-Mobile?
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That s right.
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And the creative nucleus behind it.
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Shut up, Panay, as well.
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Yeah, exactly.
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You kind of can t beat his voice.
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Do you know about his friend Brian Klugman?
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Best friend since Philadelphia.
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And he and Panay are partners with Nate.
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Yes, and Klugman s in the movie.
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Oh, who is he in the movie?
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This is insane.
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I know.
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Can we just break this down for a second?
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Yeah, Rob, explain yourself.
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So it s espresso with water, and then they have like a special whipped cream that they put on top.
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Who s they?
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Maru Coffee.
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Okay.
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Shout out Maru Coffee.
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Best coffee in the city.
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Black Ops, whatever, NATOC.
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Who else do we know from our time together?
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Wait, who is he in the movie?
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Mr. Amoroso, my cello teacher when I was in eighth grade.
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He s awesome in it.
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Oh, I was just kidding, another shout out.
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Oh, isn t he great?
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I thought you were saying Klugman was playing Leonard Bernstein s cello teacher.
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I know, that s what I thought.
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It s too early for jokes.
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Sorry, sorry.
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Okay, so your best friend Klugman.
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Oh man, I m sorry, this is the first thing I m having all day.
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No, isn t that great?
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This is fantastic.
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It is good.
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So it s called something, right, a cream top?
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Cream top.
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Also not a great thing for you to sip just before the photos, because it does look like you just blew an elephant a little bit.
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Just right here.
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That s what these hands are for.
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This has happened a few times.
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I kind of think you re doing it on purpose, Rob.
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One of his rascally moves.
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What s going on up there?
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The shepherd, what s he doing?
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What happens before the interview starts?
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Oh, we re all over the place.
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Back to... Look at this footwear that s going on.
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Yeah, a lot of boots.
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Oh, all three.
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Pretty good.
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What movie?
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What movie?
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TV show, Kitchen Confidential.
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These are from 2006.
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Wow.
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Because I live in New York, but I still have the place here.
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But all the clothes are from like... They re just getting older.
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Yeah, so I wore these Benetton women s pants.
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I must have worn all the time.
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Remember those red, almost pajama-like pants?
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Oh, for sure.
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Yeah.
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Okay, those were women s.
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I got those when I was on a trip with my parents in 1997.
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Really?
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1997!
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Oh my God.
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And they re still holding up.
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Yeah, I wore them yesterday.
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With the failure to launch Army.
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Oh my God.
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Do you do that too, though?
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Yes, I was just complaining about it.
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I haven t acted in a few years, so I haven t collected any new stuff.
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Right.
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And now it s starting to become really apparent, especially if I have to wear a suit, because I ll have had suits made for the game show, but I was one way.
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So nothing fits me anymore, and I m not going to fix that.
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I m just wearing stuff that doesn t fit now.
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Right.
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As a rule of thumb.
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So everything s way too big or small.
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For the last two and a half years, everything was way too small.
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I would put a rubber band in the little notch, and then put it around the button for the neck of the shirt.
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Oh, that s smart.
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You follow me?
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My neck was too thick.
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And I m like, oh, I ll just be able to cover it up with a tie.
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But then I d pop into the bathroom in the middle of an event and realize the tie had gotten a little loose, and you could see, like, my daughter s braces rubber band.
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I mean, it s not braces, but friendship bracelet.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So yeah, I don t know what I m going to be looking like in about six years when I continue to not collect any new clothes.
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I believe we re 49.
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Yeah, baby.
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How s it feel?
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I actually feel young.
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I feel like younger than I did 15 years ago.
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But I know it s coming, because people in their 50s say, just wait.
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After 50, your body starts to change.
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I feel healthy as I ever have.
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In fact, I was just thinking of you two weeks ago.
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I m going to see how fast I can get to the very top of Griffith.
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Oh, wow.
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And I was remembering you doing that in Vancouver Island.
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Yes.
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And then I was like, I need Cooper.
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I have no comp.
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I don t know if I m doing good or bad, right?
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The fact that you could even do it is the win.
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I guess.
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Dude, are you kidding?
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I haven t done anything like that in years.
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Oh, you haven t?
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Oh, no.
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I don t run anymore.
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You stay thin, though.
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I was watching you in maestro, and I thought you were on your diet.
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I got super thin in maestro.
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For the prosthetic, that was the best thing.
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Because otherwise, when you would put the stuff on your face, you almost look like a bobblehead.
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And then after that, I m like 181, 182, which is a great weight for me.
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Yeah, probably the healthiest weight.
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Oh, no question.
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Our height.
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Just diet then.
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Yeah, and work out.
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Work out in my bedroom.
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Okay.
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Like body weight.
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You might need more clarification.
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Sprints to the toilet?
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Let me see a photo of me working out.
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My screen s video.
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A video of me working out.
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Let me see.
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Here, I ll show you my routine.
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This was yesterday at 9.
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What do you do?
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So I have a Peloton bike that I used to use a lot.
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I don t really now, but I like the way it looks.
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It s very sleek.
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People know that there s an athlete in the room.
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And the other thing, the huge thing is this Catalyst suit.
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Do you know about this?
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No, tell me about that.
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So this Catalyst suit that I was turned on to like four years ago, it s a certain method of working out where it stimulates your muscles through electric.
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There s like electropulses.
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Exactly.
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And it s a 20 minute workout.
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I ve turned so many of my friends on to it.
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Because do you remember when I was doing Sniper, my tendons were really sore.
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I was like, how am I going to be able to build the arms up to match my back?
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Right, yes.
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Do you remember that?
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Well, you had focused very heavily on deadlifting for that.
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Deadlifting my neck.
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Remember all the neck shit?
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Yeah.
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No, because he had this incredible neck and we always wanted to shoot from the back of his neck, you know, anyway.
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The suit, you re still actually working out.
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Yeah, you re sweating, yeah, it s hard.
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And the great thing is I just focus on my lower back and glutes, because again, as we get older, that s really the only thing that matters.
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Yeah, but you already had the glutes.
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I had the glutes, but not the lower back.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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So you came with the glutes into this world.
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I did come with the glutes into this world, yeah.
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That s nice.
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Which I ve had a weird relationship with.
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Sometimes I ve hated it, but often I ve loved it.
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Because basketball with Dax, Shirley.
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Tennis court.
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Let s be honest though, where it really shines is the dance floor.
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That s true.
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I was just talking to a friend of ours about this.
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I didn t like my face, you didn t like yours.
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But I had to build a self-esteem.
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That s right.
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I just honed in on a couple things I had.
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That was my first foot forward no matter what.
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You have to have known your haunches were so powerful and infectious, especially on a dance floor.
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I just loved dancing, so I was shy.
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But for some reason, get me on that bar mitzvah or bat mitzvah dance floor.
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And I felt like I was in a place of comfort.
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You were at home.
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Yeah, I did.
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And the response from gals was that no other boys were dancing.
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So it was like, ah, finally, I have a fucking thing.
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At least somebody s dancing.
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That s right.
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Just the fact that we were out there meant a lot.
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I try to tell young boys, like, just get out there.
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Get dancing.
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You don t have to be good.
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No.
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In fact, it s almost better.
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Yes, it just says, I m a good time.
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That s right.
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But do you think it works the same for girls if they re not good?
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I still like it.
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I think at that age, it s just about being out there and moving around.
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It s a false flag of confidence, because it takes a lot of confidence to get up and potentially humiliate yourself.
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So yeah, even if a gal s dancing objectively poorly, God bless her.
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Look, she s confident and she s moving.
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That s attractive.
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I just think you guys might be a little misunderstood in that you both didn t like your faces, but you had nice ones.
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Okay.
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Go on.
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Continue.
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What specifically was nice about our faces?
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Nice faces.
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And so the dancing, even if you were good or bad, it was just like, oh, that s cute because they re cute.
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Thank you, by the way.
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You re welcome.
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And it could be right.
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Whatever the outside perspective is, what was going on, and that was one of the many things that we sort of aligned initially is our sense of self-esteem.
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We were monsters.
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and physically and all these things that we connected to, but that maybe the general populace would be like, what are you talking about?
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But it didn t matter, because it wasn t like this thing we told ourselves.
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We had a dossier of factual evidence, which would support that, in fact.
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SPEAKER_00
And that would refute, but you can t see that.
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SPEAKER_01
Yes, but in a court of law, we felt like we had a very, very good case.
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Wrong case, yes, yes.
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We didn t even need to make a final closing argument.
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SPEAKER_01
Once we bring the gals up that didn t like us, then we get on the stand admitting it.
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We re like, let s settle out of court.
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We re like, okay, no, we re going to take this all the way.
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We feel confident about the verdict on this one.
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Oh, can I just say real quick?
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Yeah, yeah.
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They had this incredible weekend in Santa Barbara.
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They did this film festival and they did a retrospective and they made this montage of all this stuff.
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And then they showed a thing from Hit and Run, man.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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You and I screaming at each other?
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It was like a moment right before that.
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You driving tough?
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It was so quick, but it was like me looking at you.
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I think it was right before the fight.
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Wasn t there a moment where we like just looked at each other?
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Yeah, because we love each other, and yeah.
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Because it didn t look like Kate.
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It didn t look like Kate.
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Oh, and then when we shot the T-Mobile commercial,
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did Hit and Run.
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Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, of course.
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Brad Stonecipher.
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There s been a lot of Hit and Run memories.
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Oh, that makes me so happy.
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And, you know, because that was the limitless wig.
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Yes, yes, yes.
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Oh, and I was watching... We haven t talked in a little bit, but I ve been completely turned on by reality television, and I m absolutely obsessed.
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What specifically?
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SPEAKER_00
Well, Love on the Spectrum is the greatest show I ve ever seen.
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Okay, yeah.
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Really loved The Golden Bachelor.
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That was my introduction into that world.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, wow.
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SPEAKER_00
I didn t know that.
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SPEAKER_00
But I was just taking in the last season of The Bachelorette.
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SPEAKER_00
Haven t finished it, so don t tell me anything.
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SPEAKER_00
Okay, that s fine.
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SPEAKER_00
But they were drifting, and I was thinking about you the other day.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh.
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SPEAKER_00
They went on a drifting date?
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, maybe I should watch The Bachelor.
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SPEAKER_00
They ve had so many years to try to wrangle everyone, Dan.
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SPEAKER_00
I can t believe all the seasons, I can t believe.
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SPEAKER_00
So many.
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SPEAKER_00
It s true, it s true.
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SPEAKER_00
It s gonna be like they re gonna have a bass angling episode or something.
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SPEAKER_00
It s true, they ve done so many, like what else can we do?
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SPEAKER_00
Spelunking.
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Love is blind, my lord.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh.
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Have you watched Love on the Spectrum?
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SPEAKER_00
Yes, the first season I saw several.
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SPEAKER_00
We watched some during the pandemic.
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I m new to it all, but whoa.
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SPEAKER_00
It s beautiful.
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SPEAKER_00
Do you have a theory on why this is suddenly appealing to you?
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SPEAKER_00
Sincerely.
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SPEAKER_00
It s not a theory.
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SPEAKER_00
It s just a logistical thing.
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SPEAKER_00
It entered your life.
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SPEAKER_00
It s entered my life.
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Okay, and you can t turn away.
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So I entered my life and I was like, oh, this is the most incredible reflection of human behavior and social dynamics.
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SPEAKER_00
But Love on the Spectrum, you re watching these people just move forward with their heart and mind totally open and they re saying the very thing that we re feeling and never have the courage to say.
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SPEAKER_00
It s like one date is the equivalent of 40 of our dates.
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
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SPEAKER_00
It s like, boom, let s get right down to it.
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SPEAKER_00
How are you feeling?
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SPEAKER_00
How s this going?
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SPEAKER_00
I think it s going well.
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SPEAKER_00
I m feeling this way.
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SPEAKER_00
I don t like this.
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SPEAKER_00
That s what always kills me is when they re like, no, I don t really like this.
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The first few I saw.
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I m like, yes, dude.
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SPEAKER_00
It s quite transparent to me why that appeals to you.
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SPEAKER_00
Okay.
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That specifically.
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Because you are always on high alert for the truth.
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I know where mine comes from.
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I don t even know that I know exactly where yours comes from.
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SPEAKER_00
I think it comes from a similar place.
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Okay, maybe charismatic, deceptive adults.
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SPEAKER_00
I think it s about how to survive and understand what s real as a child.
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SPEAKER_00
What s happening because there s conflicting signs that portray different realities.
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How do I decipher what s real so that I can survive?
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SPEAKER_00
So I m going to predict what s next.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
So these folks you re like, oh, this is it.
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SPEAKER_00
They re going to tell me, I plan on double crossing you in 15 minutes.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s nuts.
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SPEAKER_00
I find it very moving.
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SPEAKER_00
I struggle with it immensely.
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SPEAKER_00
Reality television.
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SPEAKER_00
No, no, I love it.
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SPEAKER_00
I don t have a show currently, but I ve had long periods.
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SPEAKER_00
I love dating shows where everyone s fucking.
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SPEAKER_00
I love that.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah, I haven t seen those yet.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, you should watch Are You the One?
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SPEAKER_00
Oh really?
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SPEAKER_00
Okay.
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SPEAKER_00
Can I lay out the premise for two seconds for you?
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SPEAKER_00
So it s 20 people, 10 hot girls, 10 hot boys.
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SPEAKER_00
They re on some romantic location.
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SPEAKER_00
And they re just free to mix and see who they connect with.
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SPEAKER_00
They ve been told that an algorithm knows who their perfect match is.
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SPEAKER_00
That s the buy-in, that this computer knows who their perfect match is.
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SPEAKER_00
So then, at the end of every episode, they have to pair off and declare, this is my true love.
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SPEAKER_00
Basically, only two of them are right.
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SPEAKER_00
But they ve fallen in love, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
They ve been fucking for a week.
1
SPEAKER_00
Only two of them are right, meaning to the algorithm.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
Do we as the audience know already?
1
SPEAKER_00
We don t know.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so they re trying now to figure out which two had it correct and which eight other couples need to do-si-do and switch partners.
1
SPEAKER_00
Whoa.
1
SPEAKER_00
But people are already in love.
1
SPEAKER_00
There s jealousy.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s like the most maniacal.
1
SPEAKER_00
Are they all living in this?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes, and they re drinking heavily.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, there s a lot of drinking in all these shows.
1
SPEAKER_00
You gotta get everyone hammered.
1
SPEAKER_00
Are you the one?
1
SPEAKER_00
Do you watch Love is Blind?
1
SPEAKER_00
No.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, because all the cups, you can t see through them, so you don t know how much they re actually drinking.
1
SPEAKER_00
Is Love is Blind the one where they ll show a penis part?
1
SPEAKER_00
No.
1
SPEAKER_00
No.
1
SPEAKER_00
Love is Blind is where they meet in pods.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think it came out of COVID initially.
1
SPEAKER_00
It did.
1
SPEAKER_00
I did see that.
1
SPEAKER_00
I did see that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay, and then they re kind of falling in love with what you would hope they d fall in love with.
1
SPEAKER_00
Personality.
1
SPEAKER_00
Their personality.
1
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then they now get to see each other.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
And they just did Love is Blind Sweden, which was incredible.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, was there a big cultural shift?
1
SPEAKER_00
Very much so.
1
SPEAKER_00
To the degree where there was no more engine in the show?
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, they don t care what each other looks like?
1
SPEAKER_00
Just different mannerisms, different way of communicating.
1
SPEAKER_00
But they dubbed it, so I didn t like it, because the voice is everything.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, at the end of it, they do the live coming back show, where you find out what happened, and that they hadn t, I guess, had time to dub.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then all of a sudden, you re hearing their voices.
1
SPEAKER_00
It was fantastic.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, they had small talk and pleasantries, which I appreciate about them.
1
SPEAKER_00
And they re all real handsome over there in Sweden.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh my god, yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
I just met our boss from Spotify and just a run-of-the-mill guy in Sweden.
1
SPEAKER_00
But here, you know, he s 6 2 , broad shoulders, he s gorgeous.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, this guy s just a fucking vibe.
1
SPEAKER_00
By the way, you look amazing, dude.
1
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
1
SPEAKER_00
You too, your eyes are crystal clear.
1
SPEAKER_00
We haven t seen each other in person, you look fucking great.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh wow, thank you so much.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right, doesn t he?
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I see him every day, but yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
He looks so calm and healthy.
1
SPEAKER_00
Is life good?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, life s really good.
1
SPEAKER_00
I ve carved out a really crazy, impossibly good thing here.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, but I mean just everything.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, but this kind of then informs how much free time do I have to exercise?
1
SPEAKER_00
How much free time do I have to drop my kids off at school?
1
SPEAKER_00
It goes backwards from there.
1
SPEAKER_00
Of course.
1
SPEAKER_00
Still playing the drums?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, getting worse.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s the fucking bummer.
1
SPEAKER_00
But still have it by the gym?
1
SPEAKER_00
Still, it s right underneath.
1
SPEAKER_00
I work out and then I play a little bit.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then I m like, God, it s weird, I m getting worse.
1
SPEAKER_00
Tell me your ritual.
1
SPEAKER_00
The exercise?
1
SPEAKER_00
No, just like get up in the morning.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, great, I d love to.
1
SPEAKER_00
So self-indulgent, I talk about it all the time.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, you do?
1
SPEAKER_00
Is this redundant?
1
SPEAKER_00
No, he asked, so it s fine.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, so you ve given me the blessing.
1
SPEAKER_00
I wake up two hours before the kids are up.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, two hours before I gotta drive to school.
1
SPEAKER_00
So five?
1
SPEAKER_00
No, six.
1
SPEAKER_00
I gotta leave the house at eight.
1
SPEAKER_00
How far away is school?
1
SPEAKER_00
Two miles.
1
SPEAKER_00
I can do it in about nine minutes.
1
SPEAKER_00
Amazing.
1
SPEAKER_00
If I m punching it.
1
SPEAKER_00
And what are we driving these days?
1
SPEAKER_00
We drive mom s electric Bolt there, because I can do U-turns really good in front of the school and get the spot.
1
SPEAKER_00
When mom s using her car, I m actually resentful.
1
SPEAKER_00
I wake up, I meditate for 20 minutes, then my reward for that is I get coffee and nicotine, and then I start journaling.
1
SPEAKER_00
I journal one page.
1
SPEAKER_00
Still journaling, my god.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I won t quit.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, I quit for a minute, and then I started doing opiates.
1
SPEAKER_00
It turns out they were very linked.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then I minimally have to write a page of prose, so I m writing a memoir by hand.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then, it s poopy time.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because we ve got nicotine and coffee in us.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes, and we re hammering that.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then we get on the commode, and the girls start filing in, they start chatting with me, and it s amazing they don t care.
1
SPEAKER_00
Is this a toco commode?
1
SPEAKER_00
Rondol, but same thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
So there s a heat.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
I do my posting for this show at that moment, like if it s a Monday, I put up the guests.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then the girls start coming in and out, and I wonder, is this the same with Leah, where they can sit and talk to me like a foot away from me, and it s terrible in there.
1
SPEAKER_00
My bedroom is the bathtub and the toilet, the bed are all in there.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s 24-7, dude.
1
SPEAKER_00
You can t even walk out of the bathroom.
1
SPEAKER_00
There s no doors, dude.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you find she doesn t care?
1
SPEAKER_00
There s no door in my bedroom.
1
SPEAKER_00
There s no door to the bathroom?
1
SPEAKER_00
No, the stairs go up and it s all in one floor.
1
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
1
SPEAKER_00
Let it rip.
1
SPEAKER_00
Just move from zone to zone.
1
SPEAKER_00
God, I would love that actually, because again, I m moving through these little steps.
1
SPEAKER_00
But do you find that your daughter doesn t care at all?
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah, no, no.
1
SPEAKER_00
We talk where I m on the toilet, she s in the bathtub.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s sort of the go-to.
1
SPEAKER_00
I have a great biological question surrounding this.
1
SPEAKER_00
Is it your genes that make you not care, or is it just the nurture of it all?
1
SPEAKER_00
It s insane that they don t care.
1
SPEAKER_00
They must not be able to smell it.
1
SPEAKER_00
There must be something pheromonal.
1
SPEAKER_00
Here s what s interesting.
1
SPEAKER_00
I didn t grow up that way.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
At all.
1
SPEAKER_00
No.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t think I ever saw my father on the toilet until he got sick.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, ever in my life.
1
SPEAKER_00
We could have a hundred conversations.
1
SPEAKER_00
I need six hours.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we gotta talk about nudity with a daughter.
1
SPEAKER_00
So it s like, we re the Swedish style or German.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, we re naked all the time.
1
SPEAKER_00
Me too.
1
SPEAKER_00
And by the way, I was like that, not with my mom, but my dad.
1
SPEAKER_00
My dad was always nude.
1
SPEAKER_00
And always took showers with him.
1
SPEAKER_00
There was no evacuations, but showering was fine.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you re quite comfortable nude.
1
SPEAKER_00
Totally.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_00
Then I take the kids to school.
1
SPEAKER_00
Then I work out.
1
SPEAKER_00
Then I research, or research, then work out.
1
SPEAKER_00
One of the two.
1
SPEAKER_00
Probably research first, and then I try to squeeze a workout in, and then we call it a day.
1
SPEAKER_00
So two workouts.
1
SPEAKER_00
No, no.
1
SPEAKER_00
I said the order wrong.
1
SPEAKER_00
I would always research first, because I can t drop that.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then I ll work out, and then we generally record at 11 for the first time.
1
SPEAKER_00
And meditation happens where?
1
SPEAKER_00
In this area.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, in my bed.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you sort of sit up?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes, if Kristen s sleeping with the girls, I can do that.
1
SPEAKER_00
If she s not, I wake up, I make my coffee, I bring it to the other middle bedroom, and then I meditate in there on the bed.
1
SPEAKER_00
Sitting up.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes, and I ve added cross-legged to it all.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, you have?
1
SPEAKER_00
Me too.
1
SPEAKER_00
When did this start?
1
SPEAKER_00
I m like this.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I couldn t do that.
1
SPEAKER_00
By the way, I know this is crazy.
1
SPEAKER_00
You do the hands thing?
1
SPEAKER_00
I do.
1
SPEAKER_00
You are supposed to.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because I feel that there s a difference.
1
SPEAKER_00
It feels like there s not one circuitous.
1
SPEAKER_00
I got you.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s supposed to be connected at all areas.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s why I brought up like skadoosh.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s what made me think of it.
1
SPEAKER_00
There s something circular about it when you do that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
A loop of energy.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s what it feels like.
1
SPEAKER_00
I gotta add that I sit like this.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because I feel like it s going in a loop around my arms.
1
SPEAKER_00
Guys, I m crossing my hands and setting them in my lap.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, I m doing this sort of like... Touching your ring fingers with your thumb.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s the original position that the Indians did that.
1
SPEAKER_00
The OP, original position.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, they invented that.
1
SPEAKER_00
The thing is never to rest your head against anything, obviously.
1
SPEAKER_00
When did you start crossing your legs?
1
SPEAKER_00
Because anatomically, I couldn t cross my legs three years ago.
1
SPEAKER_00
I started like this.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is how I used to meditate.
1
SPEAKER_00
You look like a schoolboy at his desk right now.
1
SPEAKER_00
Then I stopped meditating for a couple years, and I think when I started back up, that s how it started.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I always go to the roof in the West Village where I live.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s where I sort of try to go.
1
SPEAKER_00
Even in the winter?
1
SPEAKER_00
Even in the winter.
1
SPEAKER_00
Better in the winter?
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, it s interesting because I bundle up and then there s no chairs there because it s just a 450 square foot little area and I have a little plot of grass and you haven t seen it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I have.
1
SPEAKER_00
The very, very top?
1
SPEAKER_00
I was in the backyard.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was in the bathroom slash toilet slash bedroom.
1
SPEAKER_00
Just a tiny little deck.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay, lovely.
1
SPEAKER_00
Do you have mats you sit on though?
1
SPEAKER_00
No, it s just wood.
1
SPEAKER_00
So I just sit on wood.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s so much tougher.
2
SPEAKER_01
I had to evolve.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because there was no chair.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m so jealous right now.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because I m leaning against, not my head, but my low back has got some pillows behind it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, my lower back.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s grass, wood, and then I have wood on the wall.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay, so you re up against the wall.
2
SPEAKER_00
Fuck, because I was starting to think you were full David Carradine style.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, no, no.
2
SPEAKER_00
No support.
2
SPEAKER_00
That would be really hard, dude.
2
SPEAKER_01
I know!
2
SPEAKER_01
This happens a lot, that I ll be mid meditation and I m down here.
2
SPEAKER_00
You slowly start drooping into the ground.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes, I tell myself you cannot think about this and also lift your head backwards.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s right.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s what I always I m like, oh, where am I?
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay How did my head get down to my chest?
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay, is that first thing you don t have any caffeine before then do you know?
2
SPEAKER_01
So what I do is similar It s like all predicated on when do I have to get Leah up?
2
SPEAKER_01
So depending if my mom is visiting from Philly Leah loves sleeping with her all the way downstairs and we have three dogs So first of the dogs
2
SPEAKER_01
The dogs are at 4.50 to 5 a.m.
2
SPEAKER_01
Walk down the stairs, so it s six flights down.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh my god.
2
SPEAKER_01
Five and a half, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
No wonder you re not hiking, you don t use it though.
2
SPEAKER_01
Take them out to the bathroom, feed them, go back up to bed, try to catch another hour if I can.
2
SPEAKER_01
I always push the limits.
2
SPEAKER_01
God bless our school.
2
SPEAKER_01
Leah s always like...
2
SPEAKER_01
Tiny ladies.
2
SPEAKER_01
And we live a block away.
2
SPEAKER_01
The closer you are, the harder it is.
2
SPEAKER_01
The morning ritual is probably my favorite part of the day.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it gives you so much self-esteem, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, I ll tell you why.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because there s a game-changing element to it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
Hit my knees right away.
2
SPEAKER_01
Same prayer for the last
2
SPEAKER_01
20.
2
SPEAKER_01
Third step and 10 step.
2
SPEAKER_00
Serenity, our father, and then a list of people.
2
SPEAKER_00
That grows.
2
SPEAKER_00
Really quick, all this is our isms, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
So it s like, we gotta meditate.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, we gotta sit more properly.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, we gotta do this.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then the list is growing.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that prayer must take like.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s madness.
2
SPEAKER_00
45 minutes.
2
SPEAKER_00
The last year of your life will be making that prayer.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you ll have to add your name right as you die.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s true.
2
SPEAKER_02
And me, oh.
2
SPEAKER_00
And people have died that were in that prayer.
2
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then does it hit you emotionally or no?
2
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes no, sometimes yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m always aware of it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Two of them have died.
2
SPEAKER_00
Is Charlotte s name in there?
2
SPEAKER_00
No, I don t pray for the dogs.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s interesting.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, Charlotte, I don t think you should pray for dogs, but maybe Charlotte.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, Charlotte was like a human.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re a girlfriend, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was gonna be like, Dash, look at her.
2
SPEAKER_01
No, Dash, look at her.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s a beautiful woman.
2
SPEAKER_00
I sometimes felt like I was interrupting things.
2
SPEAKER_02
Speaking of, if I was in a relationship with someone who had a prayer like that, I would be obsessed with finding out if I was in that list.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, sure.
2
SPEAKER_01
It would drive me nuts.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know what s really nuts is like in the 20 years I ve been doing it, I think maybe I ve missed like five days.
2
SPEAKER_02
Wow, that s great.
2
SPEAKER_00
Do you have a bit of a superstition like I do about the journal and sobriety?
2
SPEAKER_00
That s the cornerstone of it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Not to stay sober, but I do feel like there s no better way to wake up and start thinking about other people.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, because the rest of the day I m going to be thinking about myself.
2
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_01
Everything is about, yeah, it s like, let s start it off.
2
SPEAKER_00
Let s at least get ahead.
2
SPEAKER_00
Before we can even find today s obsession, let s make room for some other humans on planet Earth.
2
SPEAKER_02
But do you worry it will turn into a pathology?
2
SPEAKER_02
Because I used to do a prayer at night.
2
SPEAKER_02
It became bad.
2
SPEAKER_02
Because if I didn t do it or I was forgetting something, it would become a problem.
2
SPEAKER_02
So I just dropped the whole thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s something about the physical action of getting on your knees and putting your head down on your bed.
2
SPEAKER_01
That physical action alone feels so deferential in a beautiful way.
2
SPEAKER_01
Again, it might be your only moment of humility.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, it really is like to start out like that.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s so part of like breathing now.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t really even think about it.
2
SPEAKER_01
That, dogs, back to bed, and then I put a cold plunge in the basement of where I live.
2
SPEAKER_01
Dude, I thought you were about to say your bedroom.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I was gonna fucking laugh so hard.
2
SPEAKER_00
This is becoming a Korean spa in there with like a bed in the corner.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s like no room to move.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I jump in the cold plunge every single morning for three minutes, and every day I don t want to do it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Every day I m in bed, I m like, I don t need to do it.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I force myself to walk downstairs, and it s cold outside, you know, it s cold in the house, and I m like, how am I gonna do this?
2
SPEAKER_01
And then I do it, set the little timer on the phone, three minutes, I m so happy when the alarm, and then I feel so fulfilled.
2
SPEAKER_00
I could literally go to bed and that s the end of the day.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s the level of fulfillment.
2
SPEAKER_00
I do too, but I m only about three days a week.
2
SPEAKER_00
I have so many goddamn routines in the morning.
2
SPEAKER_02
That is like, I have a- You guys are so similar.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s crazy.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s shocking we can be friends.
2
SPEAKER_00
It is really crazy.
2
SPEAKER_00
Our birthdays are a month apart.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, our sobriety birthdays.
2
SPEAKER_00
Sorry, yeah, I was gonna say we re like five days apart.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, our birthdays are three days apart.
2
SPEAKER_01
Three days apart, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Both born deaf, just to remind everyone.
2
SPEAKER_02
What are the ways in that- Both think we re ugly.
2
SPEAKER_02
I know, I can t.
2
SPEAKER_00
We re trying to get all the approval in the world.
2
SPEAKER_00
If everyone could line up neatly and just walk up to us and say, you re good, and then turn to the left.
2
SPEAKER_00
But then don t forget, you got to come back and say it again in 10 minutes.
2
SPEAKER_00
I probably won t believe it.
2
SPEAKER_00
30 seconds after you left, it ll feel obligatory.
2
SPEAKER_00
In fact, if you could write it out, it d be easier for me to...
2
SPEAKER_02
You have that.
2
SPEAKER_02
You re an approval junkie.
2
SPEAKER_01
Honestly, I think I ve grown a lot in the last three years.
2
SPEAKER_02
That s great.
2
SPEAKER_02
Was there an impetus for that?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, getting older and realizing there are certain parts of me that have really needed serious work about intimacy with people, women specifically, like being in a real healthy relationship.
2
SPEAKER_01
And also because I m a father and I m like, I just want to, the least amount of damage that I could do to my daughter, please let me work on myself.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it s all just getting older and people dying and mortality.
2
SPEAKER_01
Time s accelerating.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s the currency.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Nothing but time.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think being in a place where I felt like I was willing to go to those places and a dear friend turned me on to this incredible therapist that like changed my life and really realizing the problem was I had no self-esteem.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think that when I came on before we talked about this, which was years ago now, I think it was not recent.
2
SPEAKER_02
It wasn t, it was at least two years ago.
2
SPEAKER_01
What would you have been promoting?
2
SPEAKER_01
You would have been promoting... I don t think it was... The Guillermo movie.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, so it wasn t that long ago.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, when was that?
2
2021.
2
SPEAKER_00
2021?
2
SPEAKER_00
November 2021.
2
SPEAKER_00
I thought it was... So two years, two years, two months.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay, I thought it was more than that, okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, we re okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
A lot better.
2
SPEAKER_01
Everything s okay, we can...
2
SPEAKER_02
It does feel like a long time ago.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was maybe like a year into it at that point.
2
SPEAKER_01
Self-esteem, and it all stemmed from, I don t know if you feel this, but creating a narrative about my upbringing that wasn t really my upbringing.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I was starting it all on a false premise.
2
SPEAKER_02
Interesting.
2
SPEAKER_01
Of like, I m from Philly, I thought I was like a beautiful kid, and they thought I was a girl, and a chip on my shoulder, and loving parents.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s actually not exactly the situation.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
So if you re starting it out, and also Dax and I connected earlier on about our childhoods to a huge degree and our relationships to our fathers and all this stuff.
2
SPEAKER_00
Our mothers.
2
SPEAKER_00
Of course our mothers.
2
SPEAKER_00
We re like our mother s husbands.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
And we are the golden child.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s right.
2
SPEAKER_00
That was going to be minimally president.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I guess that was part of my false narrative to a degree too.
2
SPEAKER_01
Was that all it was or was there more?
2
SPEAKER_00
I m writing this memoir.
2
SPEAKER_00
It doesn t need to be published.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m writing it so I can get that version that I m so afraid to lose out of my head.
2
SPEAKER_00
It ll be there.
2
SPEAKER_00
If I ever want to revisit it, it ll exist.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s my action of letting it go.
2
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s the story I ve been telling for my whole life.
2
SPEAKER_00
And now we re gonna just set that over there, and maybe my dad was a beautiful guy, and maybe he was a loving human.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, and also, like, physically nurturing.
2
SPEAKER_00
A hugger and a kisser.
2
SPEAKER_00
Who got that in the 80s?
2
SPEAKER_00
All this new information s coming in that s like, meh.
2
SPEAKER_00
And my mom, I love her to death.
2
SPEAKER_00
She s also not the angel she was in my story.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s right.
2
SPEAKER_00
Nor should she be, and that s my fault.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s not fair to her.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s not her responsibility.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I have no resentment over it.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s just like, wow, I had a really clean story.
2
SPEAKER_01
I used to, not even knowing it, because that s how the behavior, I just found myself adrift.
2
SPEAKER_01
And starting with the real foundation.
2
SPEAKER_00
Which again, let s be honest, is just another one.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
I might reject the notion that there s a real one.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s just, there s all this data.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s just infinite data of your childhood.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, it s all a story we re telling ourselves.
2
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s for sure.
2
SPEAKER_01
And what one serves you in a feeling state at least, I can tell when I m more present when I m not as a human being in my life.
2
SPEAKER_01
When I started to do this work of reevaluating the foundation of my life and trying to look at it with a more critical eye on honesty and reflecting on true memory, I found that the benefit is I m much more present in my life.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t need the things I thought I needed to fill up whatever hole I had.
2
SPEAKER_01
And all of a sudden, I m willing to be more expressive, creative, present, giving, boundaried.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
So to me, yes, it s another story, but it felt like, boy, it s way closer to something honest because the benefits are practical.
2
SPEAKER_00
Does that make sense?
2
SPEAKER_00
It totally makes sense.
2
SPEAKER_00
For me, I guess the thing I try to be critical of
2
SPEAKER_00
is the story is immaterial.
2
SPEAKER_00
Is the story serving to either excuse my character defects, justify me getting the things I want, or somehow setting up a situation where you ll be even more impressed by me because you know the story.
2
SPEAKER_00
So if the story has these kind of like self-serving gross motives, which most of my story does, I m trying to self-aggrandize myself and seem like a victim and a victor at the same time.
2
SPEAKER_00
When I recognize that that s actually the purpose of the story, I think that s more what I m currently honed in on.
2
SPEAKER_00
I could also tell that I had the luckiest childhood that anyone s ever had.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s enough data points for me to point to these.
2
SPEAKER_01
Relatively speaking, we re already in the stratosphere on that benchmark.
2
SPEAKER_01
But what s the goal?
2
SPEAKER_01
Why are we doing this?
2
SPEAKER_01
And the goal for me was I want to be able to be more of service to people in my life and then me also.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I wanted to stop.
3
SPEAKER_00
living in my head so much really so that I could be present and I wanted to love myself like in a real way.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then through that all of a sudden boundaries just came up that I could never create in relationships.
3
SPEAKER_00
What do those look like?
3
SPEAKER_00
My relationship with my mother completely changed.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, boundaryless, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like completely, my relationship to friendships, my daughter.
3
SPEAKER_01
Your bed, your shitter, your mother.
3
SPEAKER_01
Three dogs.
3
SPEAKER_02
Does she respect the bat?
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, does she like that they re a... Here s the thing that occurs, and I don t know if you have felt this with your mother, but it all just effortlessly falls into place because the bottom line is I m finally an adult.
3
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Do I fall back into adolescent and childlike feelings and behaviors?
3
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
3
SPEAKER_00
But my baseline as an adult, whereas before my baseline was adolescence, when I was in a good space, I could live in the adult world for a little bit, but that wasn t my norm.
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, and Bradley, that s why work is so appealing to us is that you have all the evidence of adulthood through work.
3
SPEAKER_02
Because grown-ups work.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and grown-ups execute.
3
SPEAKER_00
And talk about there s boundaries.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re walking into a systematic, very clear... There s a start time and a hot time.
3
SPEAKER_00
...hierarchy and everything.
3
SPEAKER_00
I definitely have escaped in work before.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, because it feels like a very adult thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, and being a parent is a very adult thing, too, that can be misleading.
3
SPEAKER_01
Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert.
3
you
3
SPEAKER_01
I wanted to ask you this when you were talking about being a father.
3
SPEAKER_01
I wonder if you ve had this realization or thought, which is, it s not a realization, that would imply it s implicitly true.
3
SPEAKER_01
Have you had this thought, girls grow up and marry their dads and boys grow up and marry their moms.
3
SPEAKER_01
So my daughters are gonna go try to find me.
3
SPEAKER_01
Holy fuck, I better be like the most spectacular version of myself.
3
SPEAKER_01
I want them going out and shopping for the one that s not deceptive or duplicitous.
3
SPEAKER_01
or lying.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think about that a lot in terms of how does my relationship with my daughter impact her growth and the journey she s gonna be on, and specifically romantically in life, wherever intimacy finds her.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve clocked that she s gonna be seven in March.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know my relationship with my dad.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Spent a lot of time with him.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think I ve already logged more hours with my daughter than I did with my dad his entire life.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, same, same.
3
SPEAKER_00
So that alone is bonkers.
3
SPEAKER_02
Were they divorced?
3
SPEAKER_00
No.
3
SPEAKER_00
It wasn t like I was estranged from my dad.
3
SPEAKER_00
But the sheer just amount of time that my daughter and I have hung out is bonkers.
3
SPEAKER_00
I just can feel the safety that she feels.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s so tangible.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s palpable.
3
SPEAKER_00
That is so fulfilling.
3
SPEAKER_00
And again, this foundation that you and I created, manifested in order to justify the needs that we had growing up, was all based on living in an environment where we had to survive to understand what was real.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right?
3
SPEAKER_00
I was playing a game my whole childhood.
3
SPEAKER_00
A survival game.
3
SPEAKER_02
Why?
3
SPEAKER_00
Because things were not as what they seemed.
3
SPEAKER_00
Growing up with alcoholism in a family is a very specific way to grow up.
3
SPEAKER_00
What you think is real, you find it isn t real, and it s earth-shattering.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like finding out that we re living in some sort of metaverse.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, it s like that kind of macro.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re not human.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re not breathing right now.
3
SPEAKER_00
So as a kid, you re like, wait, that s not my dad.
3
SPEAKER_00
Who s my dad?
3
SPEAKER_00
What the heck s happening?
3
SPEAKER_00
All you do is dissect behavior like a scientist to try to understand what s real.
3
SPEAKER_00
So to be able to have a child not grow up that way.
3
SPEAKER_01
Not monitoring your every movement to try to predict what s next.
3
SPEAKER_00
I want her to have as much as she can of foundation that s like 25 feet thick cement that she can walk on this earth with.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s the goal.
3
SPEAKER_01
Of course.
3
SPEAKER_01
And do you find yourself having conversations with her, lying in bed or whatever, and then you leave and you go like, oh yeah, I didn t ever have a conversation like that.
3
SPEAKER_00
All the time.
3
SPEAKER_00
Every conversation.
3
SPEAKER_00
Her ability to articulate her feelings at six years old.
3
SPEAKER_00
My daughters can do a four step in like 30 seconds.
3
SPEAKER_00
By the way, no question.
3
SPEAKER_00
Her mother and I are balled over at this human being that we re raising that is able to articulate.
3
SPEAKER_00
And by the way, in her voice, like I don t even think I even found what my speaking voice was really like until like a couple of years ago.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, I m like, I think I m lowering it a little.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s okay, I have a sort of higher, it s all right, just be me.
3
SPEAKER_00
Sure, it s fine.
3
SPEAKER_01
Someone will love me.
3
SPEAKER_01
Or more importantly, I will.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes, yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
Our nine-year-old will have an enormous, I mean, she swears, which I love.
3
SPEAKER_01
I ll hear like, you re not the fucking queen of this place!
3
SPEAKER_01
To her sister or something.
3
SPEAKER_01
She can let a fuck rip, and it s great.
3
SPEAKER_01
And she doesn t do it often, but anyways, she can go for it.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then like 15 minutes later, she ll come and be like, I got really scared you weren t gonna include me in that thing, so I tried to hurt you back, but I never feel good when I try to hurt you.
3
SPEAKER_00
It is crazy.
3
SPEAKER_01
38 had been an A for fucking nine years before I figured out how to get halfway there.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, it s unbelievable.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, it s so awesome.
3
SPEAKER_00
And by the way, thank goodness they re armed with that because the world now is so much more complicated than it was when we were growing up.
3
SPEAKER_00
And the access to information, everyone s opinion.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, we just didn t hear it.
3
SPEAKER_01
We were making up terrible stories about everyone s opinion, but they actually hear it.
3
SPEAKER_00
I remember being like 12 years old and hear the term corruption.
3
SPEAKER_00
I remember like, what s corrupt?
3
SPEAKER_00
I didn t even know what, like, corruption was.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, what does that mean?
3
SPEAKER_00
Asking my dad that.
3
SPEAKER_00
I remember driving down Broad Street.
3
SPEAKER_00
It was on, like, the news or something.
3
SPEAKER_00
Dad, what is that?
3
SPEAKER_00
I feel like our children are exposed to the realities of human behavior and how septic it can be and just globally what s going on.
3
SPEAKER_00
We just have so much information.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s hard for me to even be able to compute it and be able to keep moving on as a person throughout the day, to grow up with that, that that s the norm.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m so glad that our children have that articulation about their feelings so that they can live in some sort of calm nature.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, equilibrium.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
You gotta wonder, like, chicken or the egg, maybe it s already just completely required.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, again, we didn t change and evolve until we were forced to.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it s almost like they have to already have found that.
3
SPEAKER_01
No question.
3
SPEAKER_01
Or it would be miserable.
3
SPEAKER_01
This is all they know, but boy, it wasn t like that.
3
SPEAKER_01
Isn t it?
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, it is.
3
SPEAKER_01
People get sick of me.
3
SPEAKER_01
I sound like a proselytizer.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m always- Being a parent?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
Honestly, I m not sure I d be alive if I wasn t a dad.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_01
What would have happened?
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I don t- I think he d be alive.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think he d just be fucking- I don t know, man.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m not sure.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think I d be alive, but I also think- Do you?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t think I could have ever achieved real self-esteem without them.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, no question.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s really what it was.
3
SPEAKER_00
And don t you think at 49 with no self-esteem, that s pretty scary?
3
SPEAKER_00
That s bleak.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
With your makeup?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Was I gonna make it to 80?
3
SPEAKER_00
That s pretty scary.
3
SPEAKER_01
No.
3
SPEAKER_01
All the things I chased to get that feeling that was not gonna be obtained,
3
SPEAKER_01
through any other way than this, for me.
3
SPEAKER_01
Other people get there for sure, I see it all the time.
3
SPEAKER_01
Tons of childless people.
3
SPEAKER_00
Of course, I m just talking about my experience.
3
SPEAKER_00
I just needed someone to say like, we re gonna drop this massive anchor.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I m like, why, we re speeding.
3
SPEAKER_00
I just got an upgrade on the boat and I know where the wind s coming in.
3
SPEAKER_00
They re like, no, no, no, there s a tsunami coming and you need an anchor and we re gonna drop it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Because this is gonna dictate everything you re gonna do from now on.
3
SPEAKER_00
Your DNA is going to tell you that there s something more important than you.
3
SPEAKER_00
I remember the first time I realized, because I was like, I would die in a second from my kid.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m always like, if I m being honest, I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like the first like eight months, I m like, I don t even know if I really love the kid.
3
SPEAKER_00
We don t know her yet.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s dope.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s cool.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m watching this thing morph.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then all of a sudden- I love that honesty, by the way.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s my experience.
3
SPEAKER_02
That s a lot of people s, I think, and they re afraid to say that.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, my experience was totally that.
3
SPEAKER_00
Fascinated by it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Love taking care of it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Would I die if someone came in with a gun?
3
SPEAKER_00
It s only a couple of months.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_00
She just arrived.
3
SPEAKER_00
She hasn t even had any drinks.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m not committed yet.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t know how she can be an asshole.
3
SPEAKER_00
A psychopath.
3
SPEAKER_01
I could be doing you a favor.
3
SPEAKER_01
Who knows?
3
SPEAKER_00
And then all of a sudden it s like, no question, that knowledge alone.
3
SPEAKER_01
For me, the thing is I spent 38 years evaluating had I gotten enough love.
3
SPEAKER_01
Who didn t give me enough love?
3
SPEAKER_01
Who should have given me more love?
3
SPEAKER_01
Who should have been more of service to me?
3
SPEAKER_01
That was my only analysis.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was never asking like, well, how many people have you loved?
3
SPEAKER_01
How many people have you committed your resources to?
3
SPEAKER_01
How much have you given?
3
SPEAKER_01
And I think having them forced me to flip the equation around, which is like my goal now is to give as much as I could.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then of course, ironically, and against what I would have guessed, I feel the most love by giving it.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t feel that love by receiving it.
3
SPEAKER_01
Whether I m broken or that s human, I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_01
But it s like, you can give me a lot of love and it does work for a minute, but ultimately it doesn t.
3
SPEAKER_01
But the giving it, it s the self-esteem thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s like, no, no, that s actually foundational and permanent.
3
SPEAKER_01
You can t take away the 11 years I ve given to Lincoln.
3
SPEAKER_01
I can feel your love for me go away quite easily.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s right.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s like the first permanence.
3
SPEAKER_01
Also, how about looking in a woman s eyes and going, I love you forever, for real.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I m never going anywhere, for real.
3
SPEAKER_01
No matter how you act, what you are, I had not had that sensation before them.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, the word unconditional.
3
SPEAKER_01
It actually means something.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I don t say that I don t love Kristen and won t be there for her, but it s like...
4
SPEAKER_00
This thing could do enough stuff that I would be out.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s also a reality.
4
SPEAKER_00
There are conditions to my love and marriage.
4
SPEAKER_01
But tell me this, even what you ve already been through, and I m just speaking hypothetically, you probably would have been out.
4
SPEAKER_01
The old guy.
4
SPEAKER_00
Sure, if you lined him up at the beginning and said, here s what s coming your way, I would have been like, oh, keep shopping.
4
SPEAKER_01
No, there s a sense of ease.
4
SPEAKER_01
I know exactly what you re talking about.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s like I m a different person, because it was always predicated on the behavior that could be happening right now.
4
SPEAKER_01
Like, I could be in and out.
4
SPEAKER_01
Let s see what you got, because I ll be out in two seconds.
4
SPEAKER_01
In fact, you re always looking for it.
4
SPEAKER_02
Right.
4
SPEAKER_01
What a horrible place for the other person to be in.
4
SPEAKER_01
I know.
4
SPEAKER_01
What a horrendous place.
4
SPEAKER_01
Again, to bring it back to The Bachelor.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, let s go.
4
SPEAKER_01
And you can see people that are living that way.
4
SPEAKER_01
In fact, I was watching an episode last night and I was commenting on like, I could see that that person
4
SPEAKER_01
is talking to the other person in a way of like, what are you going to do?
4
SPEAKER_01
Because I m out in two seconds.
4
SPEAKER_01
I d like to be here, but I m also so scared.
4
SPEAKER_01
But I m not even showing you that I m scared.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m showing you that are you the person that you are?
4
SPEAKER_02
Are you good enough for me?
4
SPEAKER_01
Are you good enough?
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
And no one s good enough for you because you re not good enough for you.
4
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I would never be so bold to say what that person s feeling, but I related to it in the way that I have been, you know, without even knowing it.
4
SPEAKER_01
And, but now I look back and think, what a horrible thing to put people through.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
And we ve dealt with this in our friendship.
4
SPEAKER_01
You share with me that you felt like you had to walk on eggshells with me in periods of our friendship.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I think that s what that was about to a degree, but I didn t even realize it.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
I ve had the feeling like,
4
SPEAKER_00
He s trying to figure out how I m screwing him over, and it s very stressful.
4
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like, I don t know how to say I don t have any ill intentions for you.
4
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
4
SPEAKER_01
It breaks my heart that I put you through that.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, I ve put you through it.
4
SPEAKER_00
This is how they work, the friendship.
4
SPEAKER_00
No, it s true.
4
SPEAKER_00
But back to the women, I guess this is where, too, the narrative, this is where it served me is, I do have conditions romantically.
4
SPEAKER_00
I actually kind of stand by that.
4
SPEAKER_00
You can t be a raging addict hosting orgies in front of our kids and think you re gonna live with me in this house.
4
SPEAKER_00
But I do think this is where the story is corrosive is I ve been married since I was born to a woman and that woman brought people around and I have pledged to myself because I love myself.
4
SPEAKER_00
I won t be along for the ride of a woman I love.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so that s the baggage I carry to previous relationships is like, I m waiting for you to behave in a way that maybe my mom did that I ve pledged to myself.
4
SPEAKER_00
I won t tolerate ever again.
4
SPEAKER_00
Do you feel like you ve been married to your mom since you were born?
4
SPEAKER_01
No question that my relationship to my mother is a massively profound element of my makeup in life.
4
SPEAKER_01
But my relationship to my mother is so different than yours to your mother.
4
SPEAKER_00
I agree.
4
SPEAKER_01
One of the foundations that I didn t realize was the lack of intimacy in my life as a kid.
4
SPEAKER_01
Seeking out intimacy was part of what I wanted because I felt so alone.
4
SPEAKER_01
That was a narrative I didn t even know.
4
SPEAKER_01
Because I grew up the miracle kid, and then they get children, and all of a sudden, I look like a beautiful girl.
4
SPEAKER_01
Do you know what I mean?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, the whole thing.
4
SPEAKER_01
Chip on my shoulder from Philly.
4
SPEAKER_01
All that stuff.
4
SPEAKER_01
Right, right.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s like, wait a second, wait a second.
4
SPEAKER_01
What was the reality?
4
SPEAKER_00
What s actually happening?
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, you were shy as shit, dude.
4
SPEAKER_01
You were alone a lot.
4
SPEAKER_01
And part of that bored imagination, which thank goodness I ve been able to put into art.
4
SPEAKER_01
We would both agree, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
I m eternally grateful for my childhood.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh!
4
SPEAKER_00
I m exactly where I want to be.
4
SPEAKER_00
Let s be clear.
4
SPEAKER_00
I wouldn t change an element.
4
SPEAKER_00
Me neither.
4
SPEAKER_01
We always talk about this, being addicted to cocaine, greatest gift of my life.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s awesome.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I don t think I would have gotten sober.
4
SPEAKER_01
If it was just alcohol, I think I would have carried the lineage of my predecessors, and I d be 50.
4
SPEAKER_00
Made it work.
4
SPEAKER_01
I d be a dad thinking that drinking s fine, and then one day my daughter would see me the way I saw my dad, and who knows what I would do.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, then it all blows up.
4
SPEAKER_00
Okay, this is really perfect foundation for Maestro.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
It is.
4
SPEAKER_00
First of all, obviously it s really, really well-made.
4
SPEAKER_02
You did it again.
4
SPEAKER_00
Really perfectly acted.
4
SPEAKER_00
Congratulations.
4
SPEAKER_00
Everything s great.
4
SPEAKER_00
Very unique tone that s consistent over three different film stocks and all of that is really impressive.
4
SPEAKER_00
The opening line is great art will create more questions than it answers, in a nutshell.
4
SPEAKER_00
And this man, who I know nothing about, Leonard Bernstein, I m so fucking mad at.
4
SPEAKER_00
I hate his fucking guts.
4
SPEAKER_00
I hate him so much.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s so personal watching this, which again is a testament to how fucking great it is.
4
SPEAKER_00
I finished it.
4
SPEAKER_00
My first knee jerks are like, why even make a movie about a guy like that?
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, when he looks at his daughter in lies, I wanted to fucking go through the screen and kill him.
4
SPEAKER_00
Because you wanted him to tell the truth?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I ll get to what it s all about.
4
SPEAKER_00
But this morning while journaling, I m like, what s going on?
4
SPEAKER_00
And I m like,
4
SPEAKER_00
It s all a continuum.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m on that continuum.
4
SPEAKER_00
I am Leonard Bernstein.
4
SPEAKER_00
I want glory.
4
SPEAKER_00
I want to be seen as special.
4
SPEAKER_00
I want to have a skill that s rare.
4
SPEAKER_00
I want to be adored.
4
SPEAKER_00
I want to indulge all of my carnal whimsies, but also have the love of my children and my wife.
4
SPEAKER_00
I want to be a selfish monster, and I want to create some kind of art or product that will excuse all my shittiness.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I always hate the people that are most like me.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s who I hate the most.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s who fucking gets me enraged.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I am in such judgment of other people that
4
SPEAKER_00
have what I have.
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t think I m Leonard Bernstein, but I think I m on the continuum.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I think I fight being him.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so for me, of course, the one moral high ground I have is that I would never look at my daughters.
4
SPEAKER_00
and deny the reality they witnessed.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so that was the moment where I m like, well, he s a piece of fucking shit and I m not.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then I woke up and I journaled this morning.
4
SPEAKER_00
But I have a question, that scene, what did you think was going on with him in that scene?
4
SPEAKER_00
Do you think it was hard for him to lie to her?
4
SPEAKER_00
I think it was really hard for him to lie to her.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I think he told himself he was doing it for his wife.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I think maybe you, even as an actor, were doing it for your wife.
4
SPEAKER_00
But then I go, but then go one step further.
4
SPEAKER_00
The wife only has to deal with this humiliation of having sold out her feminism, and she s afraid to be in front of her daughter, a bad model of what a woman should respect herself for, because of you.
4
SPEAKER_00
So, sure, you kicked it down the road and said, I m lying to protect my wife.
4
SPEAKER_00
But really, the reason your wife needs you to lie is because of you.
4
SPEAKER_00
He didn t get out of jail for me.
4
SPEAKER_00
in that scene.
4
SPEAKER_00
Does that make any sense?
4
SPEAKER_02
It wasn t for the wife, I don t think.
4
SPEAKER_02
I mean, it was, but it was for her.
4
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes lying... But he said, I want to tell her she s old enough, she s smart enough.
4
SPEAKER_00
I know.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then the wife was like, you can t.
4
SPEAKER_02
But then when he s sitting with her, I think it was for her.
4
SPEAKER_02
I don t think it was in service of the wife.
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, I could tell you what was going on, because I remember that very... No, no, no, no, I mean going on with me as Lenny.
4
SPEAKER_01
This is so great, though, that Monica and I always have debates.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and you re sitting right there.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s rare that you can turn to the person who knows the truth.
4
SPEAKER_00
No, but I don t know the truth.
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t know the truth.
4
SPEAKER_01
I mean, that s the thing.
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t know the truth at all.
4
SPEAKER_01
Meaning, I don t even know the truth about the actual conversation that occurred, or even, like, the truth of what is the movie.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_01
And by the way, I don t know if I even shared this with you, but throughout the process of making the movie, I went through the same machinations that you just described about him.
4
SPEAKER_01
I was like, fuck this guy.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m an idiot, why am I spending all this time dedicated to an asshole?
4
SPEAKER_01
And it was only because I m like, oh no, he s reflecting all the shit that terrifies me about myself.
4
SPEAKER_00
Dude, it s one of the most brutal mirrors I ve ever stared into.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, and it s like, oh shit.
4
SPEAKER_01
And if I want to try to approach this.
4
SPEAKER_01
without acting really go there.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know what I mean?
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you gotta be anchoring it to the things in you.
4
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
4
SPEAKER_01
And in that moment, I remember so well, because I tried to get it to have two cameras, but the composition, I couldn t, so we actually shot separately the sides.
4
SPEAKER_00
Because you re in 4-3 at that point still.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, 1-3-3.
4
SPEAKER_00
So you don t have the width to do dueling overs.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and I didn t want to do French overs.
4
SPEAKER_01
I could have done it if I did French overs.
4
SPEAKER_00
Too intimate.
4
SPEAKER_01
It was like the movie s showing that we re hiding, and I don t want it to be that way.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s supposed to be like I m actually revealing.
4
SPEAKER_00
You almost want it straight down the barrel in this moment.
4
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I don t want the audience to be behind them.
4
SPEAKER_01
I want them to be in between them.
4
SPEAKER_00
No safety.
4
SPEAKER_00
No safety.
4
SPEAKER_01
No distance.
4
SPEAKER_01
We re distant in other moments where we re peeking in, you know, when they re fighting and we re like, what s going on?
4
SPEAKER_01
But now, no, we re in the middle.
4
SPEAKER_01
This is a reckoning.
4
SPEAKER_01
It was so hard for me to lie to her.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oof.
4
SPEAKER_01
Every element of my body was saying, this goes against everything I believe.
4
SPEAKER_01
As Bradley.
4
SPEAKER_01
As Lenny and Bradley.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah, that s true.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you guys are in concert there.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, when she says I m relieved.
4
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I m going, oh, fuck.
4
SPEAKER_01
No.
4
SPEAKER_01
I can t teach you this.
4
SPEAKER_01
Relieved about what?
4
SPEAKER_01
You re basically going to live through the constructs that have been dictated to us.
4
SPEAKER_01
Because early in the movie, the reason why he talks to Felicia, he s like, you re like me.
4
SPEAKER_01
I could tell you have this accent that s kind of, I can t place, but your father s American, but you grew up in Chile.
4
SPEAKER_01
You lied about coming to New York to say piano, but it s acting.
4
SPEAKER_01
We re the same person because the world wants us to be one thing.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I find that fucking deplorable.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I actually find you attractive.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, remember in college, even when we first started hanging out, we spoke, we just kept talking.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like we were gacked up without gas.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yes, dude.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s because you re so excited to meet a like-minded person.
4
SPEAKER_01
That was like his anchor.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yes, the world won t accept me, but I ll never put out this fire.
4
SPEAKER_01
And this fire eventually burns everything down.
4
SPEAKER_00
Unfortunately.
4
SPEAKER_01
We can get to that in a second.
4
SPEAKER_01
But in that moment, I would never say that really is Lenny, but that character Lenny...
4
SPEAKER_01
it fucking killed him to lie to her.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, you could tell.
4
SPEAKER_01
Because the one thing he could hold onto was his identity of an unabashedly honest human being in a world that s trying to put him in a different category.
4
SPEAKER_00
Which is the most selfish, if you think about it.
4
SPEAKER_00
Also, but it s the only time we ve seen his own behavior actually catch up with him.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s true.
4
SPEAKER_00
He sees it affect other people.
4
SPEAKER_01
He has to curtail his own way of living.
4
SPEAKER_01
So that was a fascinating scene to experience.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think it s the most powerful scene in the movie,
4
SPEAKER_02
I think it s funny that you two projected those feelings, like you were so angry at him, because when I watched it,
5
SPEAKER_02
I felt so bad for him.
5
SPEAKER_01
I felt anger in the preparation.
5
SPEAKER_01
I didn t feel any anger towards him while I was filming it.
5
SPEAKER_02
Cause life is so complex and people are so complex and he s just one person caught up in this complexity.
5
SPEAKER_02
And I believe that he can have all these feelings all at once and that the world doesn t allow for that, but that s his truth.
5
SPEAKER_02
And how do you reconcile that?
5
SPEAKER_02
So for me, I was just like, Oh, life is so hard.
5
SPEAKER_00
What I like about it is it exposes our own things.
5
SPEAKER_00
So there would have been another character that would have been doing something that s one of your flaws and you would be irate.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I would be like, again, I ve overcome snorting cocaine.
5
SPEAKER_00
So when I see people snorting cocaine, I m not like those losers, they need to get their shit together.
5
SPEAKER_00
I just have compassion and I get it.
5
SPEAKER_00
Six months sober?
5
SPEAKER_00
I was like, these motherfuckers never going to get their shit together.
5
SPEAKER_00
You know, I don t have that issue anymore, but I think this is so funny.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then it s so obvious to me why you and I have the same reaction and interest in this is that we got a lot of feelings about someone that acts like that.
5
SPEAKER_00
I don t have a lot of feelings about Carrie.
5
SPEAKER_00
She might ve been flawed throughout this.
5
SPEAKER_00
And she probably did things that if you were a codependent or someone that lost your identity to another person, you d be in such great judgment of her the whole movie.
5
SPEAKER_00
I wasn t because that s not the fucking dragon I m battling.
5
SPEAKER_01
every night in bed.
5
SPEAKER_01
Dragon s the right word.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s what she calls him.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh, right.
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, you re a dragon.
5
SPEAKER_01
And that s part of it.
5
SPEAKER_01
He s like, oh, you see me and you love me?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
You know I m a dragon and you re kissing me?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, that s why that first scene when they re rehearsing, that s what she says to him.
5
SPEAKER_00
When he s playing the king.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes, exactly.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_01
Who doesn t want to be with someone who sees you and loves you so I could do anything I want?
5
SPEAKER_01
And then there s the tragic flaw.
5
SPEAKER_00
And again, you evaluate your life.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s the great relapse fantasy.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s like, I can do it this way.
5
SPEAKER_00
And as long as the other people don t know, that ll be a success.
5
SPEAKER_00
I just keep it from everybody.
5
SPEAKER_00
And you ignore the fact that you ll never keep it from yourself.
5
SPEAKER_00
His behavior comes home to roost in that scene with his daughter, irregardless of the other people around him, whether he s kept it on the rails or not.
5
SPEAKER_01
And you re right, no matter whether it was that moment in his life or another, it was gonna come back to roost, like you said.
5
SPEAKER_00
And also, the duality of he s also teaching and helping.
5
SPEAKER_00
No one s good or bad.
5
SPEAKER_01
Part of what she said seeped in, because be kind to him.
5
SPEAKER_01
Those are the last words she says to her daughter, basically, in the movie.
5
SPEAKER_01
Kindness, kindness, kindness.
5
SPEAKER_01
So something did seep through.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, of course you re always evaluating whether someone s doing just enough good stuff to excuse their bad stuff, like just keeping their own self-esteem in a homeostasis.
5
SPEAKER_00
Two for you, one for me.
5
SPEAKER_00
I ve certainly been guilty of two goods, and now I ve earned something for me.
5
SPEAKER_00
The other for me genius element was I have no reverence for conductors.
5
SPEAKER_00
Full honesty, I have been to the symphony, I m watching the guy with the baton,
5
SPEAKER_00
And I m watching the musicians and I m like, they don t ever look at this guy.
5
SPEAKER_00
This is like, I m wrong.
5
SPEAKER_00
No, you re not.
5
SPEAKER_00
Chris didn t explain the whole thing to me.
5
SPEAKER_00
No, but you re not.
5
SPEAKER_01
That does occur.
5
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
5
SPEAKER_00
So for me, it was such a wonderful exposure of my own.
5
SPEAKER_00
priorities and things I value, which is he s getting so much love and affection for this thing that a DAC shepherd thinks is almost fraudulent.
5
SPEAKER_00
Really, you spin this thing around, that s such an accomplishment, that s worthy of worship and praise, and it s preposterous that that little tiny thing he does would excuse anything.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then I go, yeah, and my things are just as preposterous.
5
SPEAKER_00
I too have a stupid thing I do.
5
SPEAKER_00
Does that make any sense?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes, that s really interesting.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it was very helpful that this character was such a legend in something that I didn t personally ever.
5
SPEAKER_00
But he also composed.
5
SPEAKER_00
Now, had you done a rock star or a film director or a race car driver, I would have been trapped in the, a little bit of, yes, this is a worthy pursuit and does justify some shit.
5
SPEAKER_00
You do have to dedicate yourself to your thing in a manner that alienates other people.
5
SPEAKER_00
But because I could find no purchase in the things he excelled at, that actually like is a gift to me,
5
SPEAKER_00
because it pointed out how equally preposterous the things I value are and that there isn t a hierarchy in it.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s just, you do something great and you hope you won t have to play by any rules because you do something great.
5
100%.
5
SPEAKER_00
It got me fucking revved up.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m glad.
5
SPEAKER_02
It s really, really good.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it got me really, really revved up.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, it took me all night to sleep on it and then to journal about it this morning.
5
SPEAKER_00
Because I was even thinking, like, what am I going to talk to Cooper about?
5
SPEAKER_00
What is my angle?
5
SPEAKER_00
And other than the obvious things, like I said, it s fucking perfectly made.
5
SPEAKER_00
I didn t know how I felt emotionally about it.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then once I was journaling, I m like, oh, I know exactly how I feel about this.
5
SPEAKER_00
This is the kind of person I hate because this is the side of me I hate.
5
SPEAKER_01
The reason I did the movie, one of the reasons, in terms of focusing on him and investigating this person, is that in the research, and we talk about elements of ourselves in him, but this guy lived his life, in all of those aspects, you re saying, at 100.
5
SPEAKER_01
Right, right.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like that one human being.
5
SPEAKER_01
was able to, with such abandon, embody all of the hypocrisies and contradictions of the human experience in his lifetime was mind-blowing to me.
5
SPEAKER_01
No wonder he died at 72.
5
SPEAKER_00
He went full throttle.
5
SPEAKER_00
Full throttle from 13 years old till 72.
5
SPEAKER_01
Right, started smoking when he was 13, ashtrays in the bathtub.
5
SPEAKER_01
Couldn t sleep, by the way.
5
SPEAKER_01
Total insomniac.
5
SPEAKER_01
Add that to the equation.
5
SPEAKER_01
Asthmatic.
5
SPEAKER_01
He was probably feeling physically terrible while also pushing through.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, if he was healthy, he would have lived to like 130.
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, and I talked to his kids about that.
5
SPEAKER_01
I was like, what happened to his brain?
5
SPEAKER_01
Because, you know, drank a lot.
5
SPEAKER_01
The guy just devoured.
5
SPEAKER_01
He was a dragon.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yes, yes.
5
SPEAKER_01
Chomp, chomp, chomp.
5
SPEAKER_01
And they were like, his brain was sharp as a tack till he died.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s like, God gave him everything.
5
SPEAKER_01
Let s see how the human experience works on this human being when they have everything.
5
SPEAKER_01
Beautiful, charismatic, effortlessly, totally present.
5
SPEAKER_01
If you watch interviews with him, he reminds me of Michael Jordan.
5
SPEAKER_01
There s like no inner monologue.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s just, you re asking him a question and he s answering it.
5
SPEAKER_01
His sense of self, whatever that thing is that he was given, is so concrete and ebullient for others to be around.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s why everybody I interviewed said like, well, when he walked in the room, you know, it s what you hear about Clinton, the energy changes.
5
SPEAKER_01
If he looks at you, you re like, I m seen.
5
SPEAKER_02
You re the only person in the room.
5
SPEAKER_01
These are massive.
5
SPEAKER_01
Weapons to explore this guy that reflects to various degrees in all of us.
5
SPEAKER_01
He embodied everything at a 10 I thought this is interesting.
5
SPEAKER_00
That was the thought I do believe the more I sit on it because as you just say that yeah like massive arsenal
5
SPEAKER_00
What human is going to navigate that with total morality at all times?
5
SPEAKER_00
That s a lot.
5
SPEAKER_00
To have that effect on people and to not enjoy that and to not want to live in that permanently.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, think about it.
5
SPEAKER_01
A guy brought a gun to school to kill him, a student, because he couldn t take that this person was living.
5
SPEAKER_01
Because it reflected how less than he was, and that his teacher strangled him during a rehearsal.
5
SPEAKER_01
Those things happened.
5
SPEAKER_01
One of the things I realized was that I d never tell my daughters, like, you hurt my feelings, ever.
5
SPEAKER_01
Because a kid can t hurt an adult s feelings.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s too much power to give them.
5
SPEAKER_01
Because when I was a kid and I heard that I was causing acid to run down my grandfather s esophagus, right?
5
SPEAKER_01
So you give me agita.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m six years old going, how am I pouring acid down this God who was a police officer?
5
SPEAKER_01
Imagine being a young man in your 20s.
5
SPEAKER_01
and a kid comes to school to try to kill you because of jealousy, and your teacher is strangling you because you re too talented.
5
SPEAKER_00
Think about what that would do to you.
5
SPEAKER_00
Have you found compassion in playing him?
5
SPEAKER_00
I guess.
5
SPEAKER_00
We all know this.
5
SPEAKER_00
This is a well-worn trope.
5
SPEAKER_00
You can t be in judgment of the people you play.
5
SPEAKER_00
You know, it s interesting.
5
SPEAKER_01
I was thinking about that the other day.
5
SPEAKER_01
I think I live by that, like you have to love your characters.
5
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I don t believe that at all.
5
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The one gift that I ve been given is empathy as a human being.
5
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And the flip side is that, is I m so sensitive.
5
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and could be hurt so easily.
5
SPEAKER_01
I think that also is part of why I feel like I found the right thing to do with my life professionally.
5
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Those things could be a benefit to telling a story.
5
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They re like height for a center.
5
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Yeah, and I have so much empathy for him because of all the things I ve just been saying, because he was alive and had all of these traits as a human being, and he had to survive with that.
5
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And it s not like a two for one thing that you re saying, but I don t believe at all.
5
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You know, that fight when she says, it s just hate in your heart.
5
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All you care about is showing everybody that they re less than you.
5
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I don t believe that at all.
5
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And nor does she.
5
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And that s the hope of that.
5
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That s also too binary.
5
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Yeah, exactly.
5
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I think it can be both.
5
SPEAKER_01
Of course he loves the idol aspect, but at the core,
5
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what I feel from him, and you could take any video, if you like YouTube, Leonard Bernstein, played any random one, and you and I talked about his eyes and his voice, I don t see hate.
5
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I see generosity.
5
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Now, that doesn t mean he wasn t a monster at times, but I do believe there s a deep light.
5
SPEAKER_00
And that s where we get into a much harder and more nuanced question, which is, can we have these super special people and expect that they re going to be completely normal than when we need them to be?
5
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His tragic flaw, and it s by his upbringing, the way society viewed him, his religion, his talent, he had a whole bunch of weapons pointed towards him.
5
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But his tragic flaw, and what we know now living in this, in quotes, evolved culture, is that he could have done the work to try to be more centered and have boundaries and be able to
6
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live a life of kindness.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I think that he didn t have those tools.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, he was living when if you re an alcoholic, he went to the sanitarium.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s right.
6
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Yeah.
6
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That s a great point.
6
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You can only be so disappointed in someone living in the context.
6
SPEAKER_01
It has to be contextualized.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s very fair.
6
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He had a lot of fires burning all at once.
6
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I can have a great family.
6
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I ll fuel that fire.
6
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Everybody wants to fuck me.
6
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I ll fuel that fire.
6
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I m a once-in-a-generation artist.
6
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I ll fuel that, composing and conducting.
6
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Very hard to stoke both with equal fervor.
6
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So you have all these fires burning.
6
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You can t keep them all.
6
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I mean, if I ve learned one thing, focus on one thing.
6
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But if you re trying to keep all of these things going, eventually they re not going to be tended to and they re going to burn out or they re going to take over everything.
6
SPEAKER_01
Well, and that gets to the heart of one of my cardinal sins.
6
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I m greedy.
6
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I want everything.
6
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I want to be the best drummer in Los Angeles.
6
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But do you still?
6
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No, it definitely has dissipated.
6
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That s what I m saying.
6
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
6
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Even sitting here watching you, I don t see any of that.
6
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Do you?
6
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It can be confusing.
6
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I m really referencing the foundational stuff I battle, and I do think there s been great progress.
6
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So I am in no way... Because your core that I will go to the grave is kindness.
6
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no matter all this shit you and I have been through.
6
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If not kindness, I want the best for the people that I love.
6
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I would say that s kindness.
6
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Okay, good.
6
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That s how we re going to define it.
6
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And I don t, now here s the thing I wasn t sure, I was urged to declare this diagnosis on him, but I was looking for like, just textbook narcissism as like a real personality disorder.
6
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Are the people around him props?
6
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Or is he genuinely concerned about the people around him?
6
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Does he want to help them as much as he wants to be helped by them?
6
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That was another thing I found myself kind of evaluating.
6
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And again, because like I would alcoholism, I try to really go, hey man, it d be real easy for you to start drinking the Kool-Aid.
6
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You got to really mind yourself about narcissism.
6
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And so I think I m hyper aware of other people, right or wrong.
6
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But who s keeping him in?
6
SPEAKER_00
Check.
6
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Why can t he have all of it for a long time?
6
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No one s saying stop this or no one s giving ultimatums.
6
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So what human would say, I guess on my own, I m going to give up this thing that is fulfilling me right now.
6
SPEAKER_00
None of us would do that if there weren t people saying you can t.
6
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No one was saying that.
6
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Like if you weren t actively betraying someone.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and they re saying, look, I m walking out or I m leaving or you can t do this to me.
6
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That was not happening.
6
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And so it would take a astronomical level of understanding.
6
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I think there was a lot of, no, first of all, just professionally what he overcame.
6
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never an American conductor, certainly a Jew, to come into this art form.
6
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Hoover had a folder on him that was this thick.
6
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Looks about three inches to the listener.
6
SPEAKER_00
For the listener, yeah.
6
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Imagine those are all tiny papers, very thin papers.
6
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The thinnest available for the FBI.
6
SPEAKER_00
But that s what I mean, he overcame so much.
6
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And if you go back and read, talk about bad reviews.
6
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Oh, did he get eviscerated?
6
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His whole career.
6
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Really?
6
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Oh yeah.
6
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Oh, that s so comforting, isn t it?
6
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People made fun of his tactics.
6
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In the 80s, his conducting was all of a sudden praised by the very people that were ridiculed.
6
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You know, he was a unicorn.
6
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People don t want unicorns.
6
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They re scared.
6
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And the other difference I felt that I can t relate to is I don t know so much that he needed the praise of people because he was so aware that he was a dragon.
6
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He had that in his own heart.
6
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Because it was a reality.
6
SPEAKER_02
You know, that was the idea of the beginning of the movies.
6
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He s not living with us.
6
SPEAKER_02
And God says, I m going to call you to come down here and show people this thing.
6
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Now that s a huge gift I m giving you.
6
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Let s see what you do with it.
6
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We ve witnessed it most recently a couple of times in Jean-Baptiste.
6
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Oh, dude.
6
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Dude.
6
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Yeah, no.
6
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He s unbelievable.
6
SPEAKER_00
He is.
6
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He s a gift.
6
SPEAKER_00
He s a gift.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s a joke.
6
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And talk about present.
6
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I can see in Jean-Baptiste s eyes that he is both grateful for the adoration, but that s not even in the equation.
6
SPEAKER_01
His pursuit is so far beyond that.
6
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And that was Lenny s too, I felt.
6
SPEAKER_02
That helps me link those two, actually.
6
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Okay.
6
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He was like a ridiculous talent, Lenny.
6
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When you get a chance, just YouTube, Leonard Bernstein does the history of music in five minutes.
6
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Oh, fuck.
6
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
6
SPEAKER_01
Dude, it ll be a very John experience.
6
SPEAKER_02
It is.
6
SPEAKER_02
He takes you through the beginning of sound to now.
6
SPEAKER_01
Oh, wow.
6
SPEAKER_01
In five minutes.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I need to see that.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
And you re just like,
6
SPEAKER_01
OK.
6
SPEAKER_01
And you re asking a lot.
6
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Again, here s the compassion thing.
6
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You re asking so much.
6
SPEAKER_01
You re asking someone to live on another plane or that stuff is accessible.
6
SPEAKER_01
And then between 5 p.m.
6
SPEAKER_01
and 9 a.m.
6
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live on your plane.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s what I was asking.
6
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Do we have to have some kind of tolerance?
6
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for if we want the things we want.
6
SPEAKER_01
Is Michael Jordan the funnest teammate?
6
SPEAKER_01
No.
6
SPEAKER_01
You re not going to get the funnest teammate and the teammate that brings you six championships.
6
SPEAKER_01
There also has to be some level of honesty in these equations, I guess.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
6
SPEAKER_01
Now, it doesn t excuse if you re being hurt by that person, but at the same time, there s just a certain reality.
6
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I think a lot of people want a lot of reward and not a lot of risk.
6
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And that feels dishonest as well.
6
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Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.
6
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Getting back to what s the reason to make this movie, I never really thought about weighing the analysis of it all in terms of judgment or win or lose.
6
SPEAKER_02
It was more like, I think this guy reflects things that we all feel and go through on a cinematic level because it s on steroids.
6
SPEAKER_02
So the hope is, the reason why you guys do this, you want to connect with people.
6
SPEAKER_02
That s it, bottom line.
6
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Can it connect with you so you don t feel so alone as a human?
6
SPEAKER_02
Period.
6
SPEAKER_02
It s real simple.
6
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And I hope to let you into my POV occasionally.
6
SPEAKER_02
That is the connection.
6
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
6
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That s the means by which we don t feel so alone.
6
SPEAKER_02
I don t want to live in a room by myself for my whole life.
6
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I need people.
6
SPEAKER_01
Also, they re great reminders because you evaluate everyone around you, assuming they re living in the same reality as you are, and it s wrong.
6
SPEAKER_01
And to have something tangible to experience someone else s reality actually reminds you like, oh no, we re all living in our own little thing.
6
SPEAKER_01
And so it s really important to remember this isn t the only version.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s all subjective.
6
SPEAKER_00
There s nothing objective about reality, which is scary, but true.
6
SPEAKER_02
But we assume it is.
6
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And don t you think social media and media in general reflects just how disparate realities are?
6
SPEAKER_00
How fragmented. 100%.
6
SPEAKER_02
We actually have a booklet of another reality that we could open up and read.
6
SPEAKER_02
And you re like, oh, wow, that s a completely different analysis of even things and people that I know.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
6
SPEAKER_01
Right.
6
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You and I are doing it individually, personally, with our own story.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s like, oh, that was a story that worked for 40 some years.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s right.
6
SPEAKER_01
Is that still the story that ll work for the next 40 and might be time to make a new one?
6
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
6
SPEAKER_01
I just wanted to ask really quick, because you had done so much research.
6
SPEAKER_01
I recently read the Mike Nichols biography.
6
SPEAKER_01
Have you read that?
6
SPEAKER_02
I read sections of it.
6
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I heard it s incredible.
6
SPEAKER_01
I was thinking about you the entire time I read it.
6
SPEAKER_01
I just kept thinking,
6
SPEAKER_01
Cooper has to be obsessed with this book.
6
SPEAKER_01
And again, I was a Philistine on him.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like everyone in New York knows about Mark Nichols.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s like a very elevated, same with Lenny Bernstein.
6
SPEAKER_02
And Leonard Bernstein was godfather to their children.
6
SPEAKER_01
I knew you were doing the movie and then I was reading the book and then I was learning that Mike hung out with him in Martha s Vineyard all the time.
6
SPEAKER_01
And then of course I got more interested.
6
SPEAKER_01
and Leonard Bernstein because this new guy I m obsessed with, Mike Nichols, was somehow connected to him and sharing some thing.
6
SPEAKER_01
But again, I don t know what parts of that book you read, but you know, he was like fucking smoking crack during a lot of these movies.
6
SPEAKER_01
And then addicted to this Benzo that made him go crazy for a year and he like sold everything he owned because he thought he was going broke.
6
SPEAKER_01
I mean, this motherfucker was on a ride while making all these incredible things.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I didn t even know he had been the most legendary comedian of his day.
6
SPEAKER_01
What?
6
SPEAKER_01
I know.
6
SPEAKER_01
Nichols and May.
6
SPEAKER_01
Insane.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
6
SPEAKER_01
So to me, I was like, oh, these two feel very similar in that they re doing everything.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
6
SPEAKER_01
Somehow Mike Nichols is the best Broadway director, but he s also doing movies.
6
SPEAKER_01
And he was the most inventive comedian with May.
6
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And fucking smoking crack.
6
SPEAKER_01
And a father.
6
SPEAKER_01
And married to Diane Sawyer.
6
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Makes me so fascinated with her.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
And beloved.
6
SPEAKER_01
Totally.
6
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That s the key.
6
SPEAKER_00
But that was at a time when you could be.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t know about now.
6
SPEAKER_02
Given his lifestyle, you mean?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and just that we don t like keeping people on top now.
6
SPEAKER_02
Oh, interesting.
6
SPEAKER_00
We want him to be that, but then we d love to tear him down at this point, if he was happy now.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
6
SPEAKER_01
What s your relationship to that?
6
SPEAKER_01
People wanting people to fall.
6
SPEAKER_01
Do you agree with that?
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
I don t think anyone s nefarious or malicious.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think that we are all blueprinted to tell stories.
6
SPEAKER_01
And when someone gets to the very top, we need a third act.
6
SPEAKER_01
So unless they can get higher, yeah, I think in general, people are like, well, what s next?
6
SPEAKER_00
In status monkeys, you get tired of seeing the same people on top and it feels unjust and unfair.
6
SPEAKER_00
And so let s use our power to take them down.
6
SPEAKER_00
I think it s rough.
6
SPEAKER_02
What do you think about it?
6
SPEAKER_02
I never thought of it.
6
SPEAKER_02
It s always so interesting to hear your point of view, this idea of like just needing more of a story because then it gets stale.
6
SPEAKER_02
I look at it from a different point of view, my own lens, which is I don t want to be alone.
6
SPEAKER_02
And I do think that s a deep need.
6
SPEAKER_02
I mean, we re social animals, period.
6
SPEAKER_02
There s nothing easier to connect with somebody by putting somebody else down, right?
6
SPEAKER_02
That s the old thing.
6
SPEAKER_02
You and I can shit on somebody that we know and we ll feel like, oh, look how connected we are.
6
SPEAKER_01
It won t last long.
6
SPEAKER_01
Let me applaud you.
6
SPEAKER_02
And I have given you credit on here many times.
7
SPEAKER_01
You are actually the person that pointed that out to me.
7
SPEAKER_01
I can remember so clearly three things you ve said to me.
7
SPEAKER_01
One was, when someone s talking shit about someone else to me, it tells me more about them than the person they re talking shit about.
7
SPEAKER_01
I was like, ugh.
7
SPEAKER_01
That opened up a whole world to me.
7
SPEAKER_01
One was my own vanity.
7
SPEAKER_01
Other people are onto what Cooper s saying.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m just exposing myself.
7
SPEAKER_01
Two, I started noticing I do it to point out a virtue of my own.
7
SPEAKER_01
If I m on set and I go like, oh, where s Mike?
7
SPEAKER_01
15 minutes behind, I guess.
7
SPEAKER_01
If I say that, I m saying I m on time.
7
SPEAKER_01
And I actually won t move through the world bragging about myself for being on time.
7
SPEAKER_01
So once I just connect the pieces of what I m really doing, then I don t have an appetite for it anymore.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I ve discovered so many traits of my behavior that I didn t even realize until this foundation thing, this new story we are telling ourselves that s more close to the truth.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I laugh at my boundaryless behavior.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I think like, oh, I know what I was doing.
7
SPEAKER_00
I had justified it all because I m honest.
7
SPEAKER_00
That whole thing.
7
SPEAKER_00
I don t lie.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s a little bit more than that.
7
SPEAKER_00
Unless you re lying to yourself.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, exactly.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, exactly.
7
SPEAKER_00
You might be telling the truth all the time.
7
SPEAKER_00
Your truth is totally wrong.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I could feel it in myself.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s so much easier to shit on somebody and connect.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I feel like this new reality that s out there that has been cultivated for years.
7
SPEAKER_00
When we first started being in this business, I think is the inception of it with like message boards.
7
SPEAKER_00
You know, remember back in the day.
7
SPEAKER_01
Your story with message boards is so fantastic.
7
SPEAKER_00
But I think that was the beginning of it.
7
SPEAKER_00
And now if you re part of a school council, you can go and read the comment.
7
SPEAKER_00
Like, it s everywhere.
7
SPEAKER_00
Everybody has their own little pocket of Hollywood.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
7
SPEAKER_00
And has to sustain a level of humanity or just sustenance, given the amount of slings and arrows that they can read about themselves on a daily basis.
7
SPEAKER_00
What saddens me
7
SPEAKER_00
is that it s the easiest way to connect with people by putting other people down.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s kind of sweet, though.
7
SPEAKER_01
When you actually frame it that way, it gives me sympathy for the two monkeys talking shit on the third monkey.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s like, oh, I see.
7
SPEAKER_01
They want companionship.
7
SPEAKER_01
This seems like the easiest way.
7
SPEAKER_00
But it s still hurtful.
7
SPEAKER_01
Oh, God, yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
But my goal is to hopefully give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s very hard for me a lot of times, but when you frame it that way, it actually allows me to be a little sympathetic to it.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, because I can relate to it.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s not like these people are monsters and I m a good guy.
7
SPEAKER_00
I don t want us as a collective to go into that base, easy way of communicating because all it s going to do is cannibalize ourselves because everybody s going to start feeling horrible about themselves.
7
SPEAKER_00
Suicide rates are going to skyrocket, drug use, and we re going to get lost.
7
SPEAKER_00
To grow takes work and not easy work, and it never ends.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, bad news.
7
SPEAKER_00
But when you work hard,
7
SPEAKER_00
and people are working hard around you and love is the actual tool.
7
SPEAKER_00
I can t believe that this movie got made the way it did.
7
SPEAKER_00
There was a tremendous amount of adversity, but there were enough people filled with love that made this film.
7
SPEAKER_00
And that s the only reason that it was able to become what it is.
7
SPEAKER_00
And that I know for a fact until I don t know it, which is...
7
SPEAKER_00
You and I undertake something and we work hard and we approach it with love.
7
SPEAKER_00
I don t know what we re capable of achieving.
7
SPEAKER_00
Because we re doing it together, I don t know where the ceiling is.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s really exciting.
7
SPEAKER_00
We re a multiplicate.
7
SPEAKER_00
But if I do it on my own, I know I ll never get to where I could get if I m surrounded by people that are all working together.
7
SPEAKER_00
This ability to connect with each other so quickly, globally, as a collective, we have so much opportunity.
7
SPEAKER_00
It just saddens me that the negative aspect of it is also so destructive because it s the easiest.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
Well, it s incredible.
7
SPEAKER_01
Do you know what you re going to do next?
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
Oh, fun.
7
SPEAKER_01
I watched it and when it ended, I was like, I don t know where he musters up another- I want to talk to you about it offline.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m very curious what you re going to think.
7
SPEAKER_00
because I always love your perspective.
7
SPEAKER_01
Well, thank you.
7
SPEAKER_01
I also need to just point out, it doesn t have anything to do with Maestro, but of course, in my research, I watch your most recent Fallon.
7
SPEAKER_01
You guys have the most special thing.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s so fun to watch.
7
SPEAKER_01
I can t believe how fun it is to watch you two together.
7
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I m glad.
7
SPEAKER_01
Do you fucking just love going there?
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, totally.
7
SPEAKER_01
You are so calm when you re there.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s incredible.
7
SPEAKER_01
You ve got like these very low energy counter punches that are so great.
7
SPEAKER_01
You re never in a hurry.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s very Bill Murray when you re there.
7
SPEAKER_01
What do you think it is about that relationship?
7
SPEAKER_01
Does it exist outside of the show?
7
SPEAKER_01
I don t really know him outside the show that well at all.
7
SPEAKER_01
Like zero.
7
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
7
SPEAKER_01
Did you see the most recent one?
7
SPEAKER_01
I don t know if I saw the most recent.
7
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God.
7
SPEAKER_01
I don t know if it s an in-show promo for these actual glasses.
7
SPEAKER_01
He s got like these glasses that you can hit record on at any time.
7
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I did see that.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yes, and they re like going back and forth with the glasses.
7
SPEAKER_01
It could probably have gone on for 26 minutes, I don t know.
7
SPEAKER_01
And then we re trying to talk about the high school reunion.
7
SPEAKER_01
You guys can t do anything sincere.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s what s consistent between the two.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s the chemistry, that s real.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yes, and every time you try to talk about something for real, it cannot be done.
7
SPEAKER_01
And there s something so fucking entertaining about it.
7
SPEAKER_00
I ve noticed as I ve gotten older and more present and boundaried, I m just calmer in my life.
7
SPEAKER_00
And one way that I really recognize it is how I cry.
7
SPEAKER_00
Because this Love on the Spectrum show, I cry through the whole show.
7
SPEAKER_00
Whenever I get emotional in my life, I m always like, I m the ugliest crier because my whole body starts to shake.
7
SPEAKER_00
Like I was never like the one tear guy.
7
SPEAKER_00
Like I m like, you sure you want me to cry in this scene?
7
SPEAKER_00
Because it s going to be...
7
SPEAKER_01
You re going to feel very- You re going to go wide now.
7
SPEAKER_01
My body s going to move around.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s going to be very uncomfortable.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m going to leave frame at some point.
7
SPEAKER_00
And music is so moving.
7
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I cried a lot through the research of this movie because I went to so many concerts, but that was happening in tandem of all this work I was doing.
7
SPEAKER_00
I cry so differently now.
7
SPEAKER_00
Oh.
7
SPEAKER_00
My body doesn t convulse.
7
SPEAKER_00
Because you re not trying to squeeze it in so hard.
7
SPEAKER_00
There s just more relaxation.
7
SPEAKER_00
That was one of the byproducts.
7
SPEAKER_00
I recognized that a couple months ago.
7
SPEAKER_00
I was like, tears are just coming down.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m not like having a seizure.
7
SPEAKER_00
I really think I m just calmer and more open.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s interesting and that s kind of a beautiful thing.
7
SPEAKER_00
I was so happy to feel that and recognize what it was because I thought I ve never in my life cried like that.
7
SPEAKER_00
Remembering my dad, when he would cry, which I never saw till I was like in my 20s, he looked like a baby.
7
SPEAKER_00
First of all, his voice would go three octaves higher because he wasn t open.
7
SPEAKER_00
You know, it was really interesting.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m not shocked that we re on a similar crying journey, because we ve been paralleling each other so perfectly.
7
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, I ve become a huge crier in the, what, Monica, last year and a half?
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, two years.
7
SPEAKER_01
I cry.
7
SPEAKER_01
We did this show on Fridays where we interview armcherries.
7
SPEAKER_01
Half of them I cry in.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m just crying all the time now.
7
SPEAKER_00
There s a person I ve spent time with, that person s seen me cry.
7
SPEAKER_00
Probably, I m not exaggerating.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m not kidding, probably 150 times in the last year.
7
SPEAKER_01
Wow, lucky.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I just had to go like.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s bonkers.
7
SPEAKER_01
Do you have some that always set you off?
7
SPEAKER_01
Because I have a very specific thing that seems to set me off.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s not sadness, it s almost like spirit that breaks through when- Humanity.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
7
SPEAKER_00
When I see humanity, and that s why I love on the spectrum is like black tar humanity.
7
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, Colombian flake.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, for me, it s these documentaries about female singers.
7
SPEAKER_00
Oh wow.
7
SPEAKER_01
Kristen came into the room about six months ago when the Sinead O Connor doc came out and I was sitting in bed watching in the middle of the afternoon and she came in.
7
SPEAKER_01
My shirt was wet.
7
SPEAKER_01
I was just bawling cause this woman, despite everything would stand there and let it rip.
7
SPEAKER_01
Fuck everything.
7
SPEAKER_01
Open up her throat and the chest and let it rip and fuck you.
7
SPEAKER_01
I won t let you not let me shine.
7
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, if,
7
SPEAKER_00
It s always the same kind of vibe.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s funny you say that.
7
SPEAKER_00
As the business has changed, most of what I talk to Dave Bugliari about is, are we going to get another T-Mobile commercial?
7
SPEAKER_00
And is Louis Vuitton going to keep us for a watch campaign?
7
SPEAKER_00
That s it.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s literally the discussions.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
7
SPEAKER_01
Well, you re kind of handling the other thing on your own.
7
SPEAKER_00
And it doesn t really bring in revenue.
7
SPEAKER_00
You know, so it s like everything s changed.
7
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I know.
7
SPEAKER_00
And so I was at the Louis Vuitton Paris men s fashion show for that, and Pharrell is the artistic director, and after the show, he brought on a group of musicians from a reservation.
7
SPEAKER_00
So they start singing, and I m sitting there, you know, with the Louis Vuitton outfit on.
7
SPEAKER_00
Trying to represent the brand well.
7
SPEAKER_00
And these men open their mouths and start, like you said, will not be quiet.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I m going to show you all the pain is going to come out of my instrument of my body right now.
7
SPEAKER_00
Because we re wind.
7
SPEAKER_00
and string instruments, right?
7
SPEAKER_00
That s who we are.
7
SPEAKER_00
We re both as humans, right?
7
SPEAKER_00
Because we have our vocal cords and air goes through us.
7
SPEAKER_00
So it s like two instruments at once being played through a human voice.
7
SPEAKER_00
Never thought of that.
7
SPEAKER_00
And bro, luckily, because as I m getting older, I need glasses, you know?
7
SPEAKER_00
And so think, and I don t know about you, but I m so happy.
7
SPEAKER_00
Luckily I need glasses.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I was, like, convulsing.
7
SPEAKER_00
But again, I was loose, so it wasn t hard, but, like, I was like... And just floods of tears.
7
SPEAKER_00
By the way, it wasn t like it took a second.
7
SPEAKER_00
You didn t need a ramp-up.
7
SPEAKER_00
They said action.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s right.
7
SPEAKER_01
It was exactly the same thing.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
7
SPEAKER_01
That someone would be beautiful despite all the fucking voices trying to shame them or embarrass them for being so.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s the greatest.
7
SPEAKER_01
All right.
7
SPEAKER_01
I love Leonard Bernstein.
7
SPEAKER_01
You came around.
7
SPEAKER_01
Oh Bradley.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, also I m shout out to Dave.
7
SPEAKER_01
You just brought him up But I m always so flat ever occasionally boogs will text me that he s listened to an episode It s always so thoughtful and nice.
7
SPEAKER_01
I want to talk about your high school reunion.
7
SPEAKER_01
I think it s so fascinating you went there, but we
8
SPEAKER_03
We don t have time.
8
SPEAKER_04
You gotta come back more.
8
SPEAKER_03
I would love to.
8
SPEAKER_04
It s so fun.
8
SPEAKER_03
What percentage of your life is in LA now?
8
SPEAKER_03
Ten, five?
8
SPEAKER_03
Oh no, two.
8
SPEAKER_03
We gonna ever just pull out entirely or no?
8
SPEAKER_00
I don t want to.
8
SPEAKER_03
Right.
8
SPEAKER_00
And luckily it s a two bedroom house, it s okay.
8
SPEAKER_03
But you know, who knows?
8
SPEAKER_03
Who knows if Vuitton gets the footage of you fucking collapsing at the fashion show.
8
SPEAKER_03
If you want to be an extremely sensitive man, Louis Vuitton.
8
SPEAKER_04
That s what we want.
8
SPEAKER_03
That s what we want.
8
SPEAKER_04
That s what we re asking for.
8
SPEAKER_03
You got to go.
8
SPEAKER_03
I m getting calls.
8
SPEAKER_03
Okay, great.
8
SPEAKER_03
I ll let you go.
8
SPEAKER_03
Did you watch the Beckham doc?
8
SPEAKER_03
I sure did.
8
SPEAKER_03
As I ve gotten healthier.
8
SPEAKER_03
I know about less people now.
8
SPEAKER_03
I don t know who s doing great at this or that.
8
SPEAKER_03
I m not really sure who s succeeding on massive levels.
8
SPEAKER_03
I think it s like a good sign that I m not tracking anybody.
8
SPEAKER_03
But in that, I ve also lost, as I ve gotten older, people I just am in awe of and I miss it.
8
SPEAKER_03
And I watch Beckham and I m like, thank you.
8
SPEAKER_03
We re back to me seeing Brad Pitt for the first time.
8
SPEAKER_03
I wanna look like you.
8
SPEAKER_03
I started wearing sweaters and blue jeans again.
8
SPEAKER_03
I love his tattoos on his neck.
8
SPEAKER_03
I love how he cleans his countertop.
8
SPEAKER_03
And I m like, oh good, I got one.
8
SPEAKER_03
I was afraid I couldn t get that anymore.
8
SPEAKER_00
I almost had the opposite reaction where I was like, yeah, everybody s human.
8
SPEAKER_00
Everybody s dealt with adversity, because my idea, Beckham, is like, oh, the guy, which people I m sure have said about us, born and then, you know, everything is easy.
8
SPEAKER_03
They never had a cavity.
8
SPEAKER_00
They don t have to wipe.
8
SPEAKER_00
It s like, oh, yeah, the human experience, again, getting back to that, is filled with strife, period.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, but if you can look as cool as him while you re going through it.
8
SPEAKER_00
That d be dope.
8
SPEAKER_00
Oh, my God.
8
SPEAKER_03
All right, I love you.
8
SPEAKER_03
This was so fun.
8
SPEAKER_03
Thanks for having me.
8
SPEAKER_03
I m glad you re doing so well.
8
SPEAKER_03
You too.
8
SPEAKER_03
Eyes are banging.
8
SPEAKER_00
Oh, good.
8
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_03
All right, love you.
8
SPEAKER_03
Love you.
8
SPEAKER_02
Stay tuned for the fact check so you can hear all the facts that were wrong.
8
SPEAKER_03
No, I was getting my hair cut.
8
SPEAKER_04
Oh, yeah, it looks nice.
8
SPEAKER_03
Oh, thank you.
8
SPEAKER_03
Two years younger.
8
SPEAKER_03
One s years younger.
8
SPEAKER_04
Four s years.
8
SPEAKER_03
Four s years younger.
8
SPEAKER_03
Oh, I just love how the sides feel.
8
SPEAKER_04
Do you like to touch it a lot?
8
SPEAKER_03
I do.
8
SPEAKER_03
I do.
8
SPEAKER_03
I remember when I was younger and the first time I shaved my head.
8
SPEAKER_01
Me too and I didn t see mine come until right before I hit my face You really believe I m gonna like it if your problem is that it s like an hour to chew through it Okay, that you ll be done in seconds 45 seconds.
8
SPEAKER_04
Oh, and should I suck it or chew it?
8
SPEAKER_01
Oh, wow.
8
SPEAKER_01
Oh
8
SPEAKER_01
Depends on your preference.
8
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I don t know if that makes a difference.
8
SPEAKER_01
I don t know what your kinks are, but if you suck it, it ll last longer.
8
SPEAKER_04
This is the first thing I m eating today.
8
SPEAKER_04
Is that bad?
8
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, not ideal.
8
SPEAKER_04
I know.
8
SPEAKER_04
Why don t I wait till I eat?
8
SPEAKER_04
I don t know, but we need it for the pot.
8
SPEAKER_04
Well, I guess this is what work is about.
8
SPEAKER_01
It ll make you hyper for the fact check.
8
SPEAKER_04
No one s gonna like what I m about to say.
8
SPEAKER_01
Uh-oh.
8
SPEAKER_04
Which already, it s too much.
8
SPEAKER_01
Well, it is a big piece.
8
SPEAKER_01
What?
8
SPEAKER_01
Well.
8
SPEAKER_04
It s like so sticky.
8
SPEAKER_04
It does taste very good.
8
SPEAKER_03
It s the duck fat.
8
SPEAKER_03
The game is to like chew not all the way.
8
SPEAKER_03
It s like dance it on your molar so it doesn t stick.
8
SPEAKER_03
I kind of like the challenge of it.
8
SPEAKER_04
It tastes so meaty because of the duck fat.
8
SPEAKER_04
I gotta put it away.
8
SPEAKER_03
Oh, you re not gonna finish it?
8
SPEAKER_04
I ll finish it later.
8
SPEAKER_04
This is how I feel about caramels.
8
SPEAKER_04
Like, I don t wanna finish it.
8
SPEAKER_04
It s gonna take me an hour to finish it.
8
SPEAKER_03
How come people not like the sound of that?
8
SPEAKER_03
That sounds so funny.
8
SPEAKER_04
It s all stuck.
8
SPEAKER_04
It s all stuck on my teeth.
8
SPEAKER_04
I appreciate you trying.
8
SPEAKER_03
I loved mine, but I already knew I loved it.
8
SPEAKER_04
It does taste really good, though.
8
SPEAKER_03
I even broke my sugar for you.
8
SPEAKER_04
Wow.
8
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_04
That s a big deal.
8
SPEAKER_03
Okay, back to the first time I shaved my head.
8
SPEAKER_03
Okay.
8
SPEAKER_03
I remembered, like, submerging my head in a bowl of water.
8
SPEAKER_04
Uh-huh.
8
SPEAKER_03
Like, tipping my head down.
8
SPEAKER_04
For what?
8
SPEAKER_03
I had shaved my head.
8
SPEAKER_04
I know, okay.
8
SPEAKER_03
And then I, like, wanted to get all the, like, whatever.
8
SPEAKER_03
Oh, residue.
8
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, all the little particles out.
8
SPEAKER_04
Uh-huh.
8
SPEAKER_03
And when I dipped my head in, it was one of the craziest sensations of my life.
8
SPEAKER_04
Wow.
8
SPEAKER_04
What did it tell me more?
8
SPEAKER_03
I don t know what to say other than, um, tickle, tickly, uh, you know, when you get, um, you get tingly s on your scalp.
8
SPEAKER_04
Like when hair play?
8
SPEAKER_03
Sure, sure, sure.
8
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it was just like putting a dome of hair play on.
8
SPEAKER_04
So it s like someone was playing with your hair when you put your head in the water.
8
SPEAKER_03
As I was inserting it into the water, as the water took over the whole shape, I was like, ooh, like I got like a chill.
8
SPEAKER_04
Oh.
8
SPEAKER_03
Pleasure chill.
8
SPEAKER_03
That s what they re called, pleasure chills.
8
SPEAKER_04
Wow.
8
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I really missed that, but not worth shaving my head again.
8
SPEAKER_03
That was part of my downfall in junior high when I got too close to the sun.
8
SPEAKER_03
I thought I could pull anything off and I couldn t.
8
SPEAKER_03
It really will expose how big your nose is when you shave your head.
8
SPEAKER_03
Did we ever address the fact that we did the nose swap, we posted it?
8
SPEAKER_04
No, I don t think we talked about it.
8
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it was pretty concluded.
8
SPEAKER_03
Well, first of all, a lot of people were like, oh my God, I couldn t figure out what was wrong with that photo, which is funny.
8
SPEAKER_03
But also, it did prove, I think, once and for all, that my nose is three times the size of yours.
8
SPEAKER_03
Okay.
8
SPEAKER_03
Because your nose looked tiny on my face, and mine looked enormous on yours.
8
SPEAKER_04
But okay, but this is a false- Negative?
8
SPEAKER_04
Negative, because obviously your nose is bigger than my nose, because your face is bigger than my face, because you re a bigger person than me.
8
SPEAKER_03
Okay.
8
SPEAKER_04
It s about proportions.
8
SPEAKER_04
And I think proportionally, my nose on my face is at least the same if not bigger than yours on your face.
8
SPEAKER_03
Well.
8
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_03
Agree to disagree.
8
SPEAKER_04
And now there s no way.
8
SPEAKER_03
We need another system because we thought that was gonna prove it.
8
SPEAKER_03
I knew there was.
8
SPEAKER_03
And your nose was a button nose on my face.
8
SPEAKER_04
Well, obviously.
8
SPEAKER_01
I mean, also the angle of the picture.
8
SPEAKER_01
I was like, oh wow, that would be a. I can do another one.
8
SPEAKER_01
I intentionally did not resize noses.
8
SPEAKER_01
Normally, if I m doing like a face swap, I ll try to make it proportionate.
8
SPEAKER_03
I have a new idea.
8
SPEAKER_03
Okay.
8
SPEAKER_03
Let s do molds of our nose, and then we will be able to hold the mold up.
8
SPEAKER_03
In your case, you ll be able to put my nose completely over yours, is my guess.
8
SPEAKER_04
Okay, but again, this is the same problem.
8
SPEAKER_03
Because you re talking proportionate.
8
SPEAKER_04
Yes.
8
SPEAKER_03
So what we need to do is we need to measure from the top of our hairline to our chin, but that s a little unfair because I m a male and have more of a receding hairline.
8
SPEAKER_04
But this is all part of it.
8
SPEAKER_03
Oh, I guess visually.
8
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_03
Anyways, yes, we do need to do a full ratio.
8
SPEAKER_03
Can we use your penis mold that you posted to do a nose mold?
8
SPEAKER_04
Well, I don t know.
8
SPEAKER_04
I kind of want to save it for a penis.
8
SPEAKER_04
A penis.
8
SPEAKER_04
I don t think I m ready to give it that up yet.
8
SPEAKER_03
And that was the only one on planet Earth.
8
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, yes, Drive Away Dolls, the movie, which I haven t seen yet, but that s a movie promotion.
8
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_03
Oh, interest.
8
SPEAKER_04
It s a Coen.
8
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_04
Ethan Coen.
8
SPEAKER_03
It s a Coen Brothers movie.
8
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_03
And they re handing out penis.
8
SPEAKER_03
Yes, of course.
8
SPEAKER_03
Well, I don t know.
8
SPEAKER_03
Of course, that sounds very risque for the Coen Brothers.
8
SPEAKER_04
Oh, don t you think?
8
SPEAKER_04
To me, it sounds so accurate.
8
SPEAKER_03
Oh, OK.
8
SPEAKER_04
Because they re funny.
8
SPEAKER_03
They are funny, but they re also classic.
8
SPEAKER_04
They re also not saying, even though we ve talked about this before, because you said, well, when it s one, it s actually both, but they re not saying it s the Coen brothers.
8
SPEAKER_04
They re saying it s Ethan, I think.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s just Ethan.
8
SPEAKER_04
Bradford, Vermont.
8
SPEAKER_03
Brad from Vermont?
8
SPEAKER_04
Bradford, Vermont.
8
SPEAKER_03
Oh, that s the location.
8
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
8
SPEAKER_03
I thought it was your friend Bradford, Vermont.
8
SPEAKER_03
Brad from Vermont.
8
SPEAKER_04
From Vermont.
8
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, like this is what basketball players will do.
8
SPEAKER_03
Like Susie Denver, Tiffany Sarasota.
8
SPEAKER_04
What do you mean?
8
SPEAKER_03
Because they go to a city to play basketball and they meet a Jennifer.
8
SPEAKER_04
Oh, you mean in their phone, yes, yes, yes.
8
SPEAKER_03
Oh, 100%.
8
SPEAKER_03
I thought you had a Brad Vermont.
8
SPEAKER_03
Oh, that d be cool.
8
SPEAKER_03
And I was like, oh, this is so exciting.
8
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, that would be cool.
8
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, people do that.
8
SPEAKER_04
They go to places, they hook up, and they put in the name.
8
SPEAKER_03
They don t know the last name.
8
SPEAKER_03
Even if they knew the last name, they know in three months the last name won t ring a bell.
8
SPEAKER_04
Exactly.
8
SPEAKER_03
And I think more ambitious and prolific some of these players got, I think there had to be more adjectives.
8
SPEAKER_03
Because I think there were multiple Jennifer s from Denver.
8
SPEAKER_03
And then so sometimes it s Jennifer Denver red hair.
8
SPEAKER_03
Freckle on nose.
8
SPEAKER_04
Oh my god.
8
SPEAKER_04
You re also giving them a lot of credit because I think they just didn t even put the name in.
8
SPEAKER_03
They might not have put the name in, I don t know.
8
SPEAKER_01
It looks like, so his wife wrote it a while ago.
8
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
8
SPEAKER_01
The script was conceived several decades ago.
8
SPEAKER_03
Oh, several decades ago.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, by his wife and she edited a bunch of their earlier movies wonderful And then he was Ethan explained me and Joel would never have made this movie It would not have happened.
8
SPEAKER_01
I don t think me and Joel would have written a romantic comedy about two female leads Here s the funny thing.
8
SPEAKER_01
I think 20 years ago.
8
SPEAKER_01
We could have gotten an important lesbian movie made but this is an unimportant lesbian movie Compute then
9
SPEAKER_01
That s hilarious.
9
SPEAKER_01
This is an unimportant lesbian movie.
9
SPEAKER_01
That s really funny.
9
SPEAKER_00
Also, Matt Damon s in it for a quick hot second.
9
SPEAKER_01
Oh, he s got a pop?
9
SPEAKER_00
Mm-hmm.
9
SPEAKER_01
Who are the leads?
9
SPEAKER_00
Beanie s here.
9
SPEAKER_00
Margaret Qualley.
9
SPEAKER_00
I mean, did I say Margaret?
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
I was like, this is a fresh face.
9
SPEAKER_01
Introducing Margaret Qualley.
9
SPEAKER_00
Margaret Qualley, beanies in it.
9
SPEAKER_00
Anyway, I got my penis in the mail and it is exciting.
9
SPEAKER_00
I have to mold someone s penis.
9
SPEAKER_01
Here s a fun question for everyone.
9
SPEAKER_01
I would be very flattered if someone asked me.
9
SPEAKER_01
Would you feel comfortable just asking Matt Damon, would you mind molding your penis?
9
SPEAKER_01
Because if I were him, I would feel so flattered.
9
SPEAKER_01
It s such a compliment.
9
SPEAKER_00
That s what I wonder like how inappropriate is it to request to ask like Jimmy to ask Matt for you?
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah Best boy to ask another best boy.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah if he ll just like make a little mold for me, I mean I
9
SPEAKER_01
Don t say a little mold, because that may trigger him to not want to do it.
9
SPEAKER_00
Or he ll really want to, because he ll want to show.
9
SPEAKER_01
It s a big mold.
9
SPEAKER_00
Or maybe it s a little, that s fine.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I know.
9
SPEAKER_01
I don t care.
9
SPEAKER_01
Everything s fine.
9
SPEAKER_01
I m just telling you, if you approach the dude and say, I want a little mold, I can just promise you that the boy will- I can t help you.
9
SPEAKER_01
The wish can only do big molds.
9
SPEAKER_01
If you want a big mold, call back.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay, but this is sort of similar to the question of like, can I have just a little bit of your sperm also?
9
SPEAKER_01
Is that also a question?
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, because we talked about this on Race to 35 with Andrew Huberman.
9
SPEAKER_01
Oh, right.
9
SPEAKER_00
How would you feel if someone asked for your sperm to be a donor?
9
SPEAKER_01
That to me, well, we ve talked about this under maybe a different guise, no one asking me, but just that would be a no for me because I couldn t handle knowing that a child of mine was alive and I wasn t helping.
9
SPEAKER_01
But a penis of mine out there giving pleasure to somebody, some guy or girl who, you know.
9
SPEAKER_00
Maybe both, maybe it gets passed around.
9
SPEAKER_01
Who knows, maybe it s a group party everyone has.
9
SPEAKER_01
Sounds unhygienic.
9
SPEAKER_01
Well, I m sure they could figure I don t think you re really thinking much about hygiene when you re you ve thrown Yeah, by the way, if you re worried about hygiene in an orgy you get out of the orgy.
9
SPEAKER_00
That s not for you I don t know for you.
9
SPEAKER_00
Well, I don t think it s for me for that reason sure then that s that s great I don t want to say never you can have your cake and eat it, too.
9
SPEAKER_01
So you agree, right?
9
SPEAKER_01
So this is everyone s gonna be honest.
9
SPEAKER_00
Well, you can have cake and eat it, too If you have cake at the orgy
9
SPEAKER_01
But ironically, that might lead to more infections than anything anyone else was fearful of.
9
SPEAKER_00
But it tastes so good.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I do think school kids wound up with UTIs and stuff, because they got a little too adventurous with the food and stuff.
9
SPEAKER_00
Of course.
9
SPEAKER_01
They were smearing on each other.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
UTIs.
9
SPEAKER_01
They ll get ya.
9
SPEAKER_01
Okay, so back to the mold.
9
SPEAKER_00
Penis.
9
SPEAKER_01
The penis mold.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
Who are your, you re gonna send three emails.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
What?
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, three emails.
9
SPEAKER_00
Of anyone in the whole world?
9
SPEAKER_01
Yep.
9
SPEAKER_00
Emails that would go directly to them, like not like.
9
SPEAKER_00
That s right, not to their people.
9
SPEAKER_00
Jimmy to the, that s wasting too.
9
SPEAKER_01
No, you ve got a direct line.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
9
SPEAKER_01
You go, hey, it s Monica.
9
SPEAKER_01
I got this really fun thing.
9
SPEAKER_01
It s a penis mold.
9
SPEAKER_01
And I was just thinking of like whose penis would I want a mold of and yours.
9
SPEAKER_01
So if you re up for it, I ll send it over.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
9
SPEAKER_00
And I have another, one more question.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
Am I allowed to send it to three people, three different, am I allowed to collect three?
9
SPEAKER_01
No, my thought here is just like, you re gonna mail to multiple colleges.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I see.
9
SPEAKER_00
And one acceptance.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
9
SPEAKER_00
I m gonna accept one.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
9
SPEAKER_01
I feel like we know two of them.
9
SPEAKER_00
I know, that s why like three is a small number.
9
SPEAKER_01
Okay, you wanna do five?
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
Okay, let s do five.
9
SPEAKER_00
Because then two we know.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yep.
9
SPEAKER_01
Matt and Ben, let s just reiterate, because this is your first episode of Armchair Expert, Matt Damon and Ben Affleck are the number one and two males sent.
9
SPEAKER_01
Not in that order, no particular order.
9
SPEAKER_00
No particular order.
9
SPEAKER_00
Those two, that would be so interesting to see the difference between those two penises.
9
SPEAKER_00
Do you think you could tell?
9
SPEAKER_00
Of course.
9
SPEAKER_00
I think I like in my heart.
9
SPEAKER_00
I feel like I Already feel like I can imagine what they look like sure sure me too.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay those two
9
SPEAKER_01
I feel like you re playing longer than you.
9
SPEAKER_01
I think you know immediately.
9
SPEAKER_00
No, I don t.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh, you don t?
9
SPEAKER_00
I really don t.
9
SPEAKER_01
Oh, okay, okay.
9
SPEAKER_00
Because look, this is not like- Let s not get into the reality.
9
SPEAKER_01
I know what you re about to say.
9
SPEAKER_00
What?
9
SPEAKER_01
Who really wants this penis anyways?
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh, no, I wasn t gonna say that.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh, okay, okay.
9
SPEAKER_00
No, I was gonna say it s different than like, who do I wanna get married to?
9
SPEAKER_01
Of course.
9
SPEAKER_01
So it s- This is whose dick do you want inside of you?
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
Which is very specific.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
9
SPEAKER_00
Maybe- Ooh, can I suggest one?
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
Carmelo Anthony.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s a good one.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, because your fucking pants exploded when he was sitting here.
9
SPEAKER_00
They did.
9
SPEAKER_01
Again, if you re new to the podcast or your first episode, Monica s wardrobe literally broke in two places while we were doing the interview.
9
SPEAKER_01
The crotch ripped right out and your buttons popped.
9
SPEAKER_00
They really did.
9
SPEAKER_01
I know, it s insane.
9
SPEAKER_01
Just from sitting.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yes, it s insane.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so that s a good, that s actually a really good pick.
9
SPEAKER_01
Okay, great.
9
SPEAKER_00
I think my body is gonna respond well.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yes, yes, clearly.
9
SPEAKER_01
As has already been demonstrated.
9
SPEAKER_00
And if anyone s married or girlfriended up with these people, or you consent in this like whole thing.
9
SPEAKER_01
Well, that s the thing.
9
SPEAKER_01
So like, if anyone wanted a mold of my penis, again, it d be super flattering and great.
9
SPEAKER_01
Obviously, my first question would have to be like, hold on, I ve got to ask my wife if I m allowed to make a mold.
9
SPEAKER_01
You would never ask her that.
9
SPEAKER_01
Well, I d have to ask her that.
9
SPEAKER_00
No, you just have to say no, because you know that she would not want that.
9
SPEAKER_01
Let me paint a scenario.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
9
SPEAKER_00
I bet you I can paint a scenario.
9
SPEAKER_00
Make a wish.
9
SPEAKER_01
Virtually, we get a letter from Dame Judi Dench.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh, okay.
9
SPEAKER_01
And she s like, I hope this isn t inappropriate, but I was watching something and it occurred to me I would love to have a mold of Dax s penis.
9
SPEAKER_01
If this is offensive, my apologies.
9
SPEAKER_01
She s so polite.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yes, and playful and fun, and you don t feel like everything s great.
9
SPEAKER_01
So Dame Judi Dench requests a mold of my penis.
9
SPEAKER_01
I would say to Kristen, hey, I got this email from Judi Dench.
9
SPEAKER_01
I m inclined to make her one.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
9
SPEAKER_00
And I have a hunch.
9
SPEAKER_00
She ll say yes.
9
SPEAKER_01
Kristen would say yes.
9
SPEAKER_00
I think you re right.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
9
SPEAKER_00
But realistically, it depends on the person.
9
SPEAKER_01
I know, which is funny because that just proves how arbitrary in your head it is.
9
SPEAKER_00
It would depend on the person for you if she was molding her pussy.
9
SPEAKER_01
Her pussy.
9
SPEAKER_00
It would, it would.
9
SPEAKER_01
Well, for sure.
9
SPEAKER_00
Like, you probably wouldn t want Mike to have access to that.
9
SPEAKER_01
Oh, interesting.
9
SPEAKER_01
I have a sliding scale.
9
SPEAKER_01
Like, this has already happened in real life in the past, which is I have a ton of variety of friends.
9
SPEAKER_01
I ve had varying levels of them being inappropriate with girlfriends I ve had.
9
SPEAKER_01
Sure.
9
SPEAKER_01
And there are certain friends of mine that I saw more predatorial than others.
9
SPEAKER_01
Bree and I used to play this game.
9
SPEAKER_01
We walk in and we re banging X. What s the reaction?
9
SPEAKER_00
I love this, yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yes, and so always like, if I walked in and Nate and her were making love, I d be like, well, I m kind of happy for both of them.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you used to say that about Kristen and Nate too.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I say that about Nate, Nate s allowed to make love to anyone.
9
SPEAKER_00
Now, hold on, I wanna deep dive into this a little.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yes, because I wanna make clear, it s not pity, because Nate s a stud.
9
SPEAKER_00
That s what I was about to say, because if I heard that about me, I would take that poorly.
9
SPEAKER_01
Oh, right, you would think it would mean you re not threatening.
9
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
9
SPEAKER_01
That s not it, so I m glad we re getting into the granular details of this.
9
SPEAKER_00
Me too.
9
SPEAKER_01
Every girl likes Nate.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, he s very attractive.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yes, and his personality is like the greatest of all time.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
but he would never, ever make anyone uncomfortable or he s just not like a hungry, predatorial type.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
You feel like it s safe.
9
SPEAKER_01
He s so safe.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
9
SPEAKER_01
And he would never cross.
9
SPEAKER_00
Run away with them.
9
SPEAKER_01
He s not trying to get what I have.
9
SPEAKER_01
So he feels better about himself.
9
SPEAKER_00
Right.
9
SPEAKER_01
I can isolate when people are trying to get what I have so they can feel above me or superior to me.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh, as opposed to just being attracted.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s not really it.
9
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yep, and so- So you re okay with people just being very attracted to her, but having nothing to do with you.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yes, and I told you, there was a very weird hookup, hookup, Freudian slip.
9
SPEAKER_01
There was a very weird hiccup in my open relationship with Brie.
9
SPEAKER_01
Which is like, I didn t care, I was not jealous, but there were a couple different people over nine years where I just felt like dude on dude when I was around them.
9
SPEAKER_01
I was like, this is more about you trying to alpha me.
9
SPEAKER_01
And like something male to male happened that had nothing to do with whether or not I cared they did something
10
SPEAKER_02
I didn t know about it.
10
SPEAKER_00
And you felt, did you kind of feel like protective of Bree?
10
SPEAKER_00
Like, is it even a, like, do you even like her?
10
SPEAKER_00
Right.
10
SPEAKER_02
And there s just a couple of different dudes that I felt like, oh, this is more of a challenge to me.
10
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
10
SPEAKER_02
And then that became a completely separate issue, but one that did make me.
10
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
10
SPEAKER_02
Against the notion.
10
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
10
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, there s certainly a ton of people that I guess I wouldn t care, and then there s a bunch of people I would not want.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and same for her, right?
10
SPEAKER_00
Right.
10
SPEAKER_00
That s the whole point is.
10
SPEAKER_02
Well, I do wonder, this is what we don t know.
10
SPEAKER_02
Is there anyone she d be like, yeah, it s okay.
10
SPEAKER_00
That s what I m saying.
10
SPEAKER_02
I m inclined to say, yeah, like definitely this Dame Judi Bench example, I think is a really good one.
10
SPEAKER_01
Like Meryl Streep.
10
SPEAKER_01
Oh, Meryl Streep.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_00
I don t know if she d want that.
10
SPEAKER_00
That s a good one.
10
SPEAKER_00
I don t know if she d want that.
10
SPEAKER_00
I ll ask her.
10
SPEAKER_00
I ll ask her.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, okay, the reason I feel like the answer is no is because even the idea of asking her this type of question, I feel like she s not gonna like this.
10
SPEAKER_02
Okay, yeah.
10
SPEAKER_02
As her friend.
10
SPEAKER_02
It doesn t need to be asked.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_00
Even the Judi Dench example.
10
SPEAKER_00
Because she ll be like, why do you need to do that?
10
SPEAKER_00
These questions, it starts getting out of control.
10
SPEAKER_02
They re a snowball.
10
SPEAKER_00
Why do you need your penis to be out there in the world?
10
SPEAKER_02
Right.
10
SPEAKER_00
And what would you say?
10
SPEAKER_02
Okay, I d have two things.
10
SPEAKER_02
One would be she asked for it.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_02
Dame Judi Dench asked for it.
10
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
10
SPEAKER_02
And then I would be honest and go, I find it very flattering and I like the idea that she wants that.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yes, and she would say, that s mine.
10
SPEAKER_00
That penis is mine.
10
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, and I d go, okay.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_02
But I would own that I feel very flattered by that.
10
SPEAKER_00
Of course, I think a lot of people would.
10
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I would if anyone wanted a multiply person.
10
SPEAKER_00
If Matt Damon wanted a- Oh my God, I would love it.
10
SPEAKER_02
Yes, yes.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that d be very, very flattering.
10
SPEAKER_02
But the conversation I m having now about all this with Kristen is like, now you re getting into this very, very interesting and dynamic spectrum of what is cheating.
10
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
10
SPEAKER_02
Which is like never endingly fascinating.
10
SPEAKER_02
And there are so many things for some couples that would be just cheating.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_02
that are not for others, you know?
10
SPEAKER_02
Everyone kind of gets to set their standard is.
10
SPEAKER_00
This would be to a lot of people, this would be cheating.
10
SPEAKER_02
Which is funny, because it s not cheating.
10
SPEAKER_02
The person s like never even touched the person.
10
SPEAKER_02
They didn t witness any of the stuff.
10
SPEAKER_02
Now, if it escalated to like, now I d like to show you a video of me using it.
10
SPEAKER_02
Now we re getting, now we re definitely, we re inching closer and closer.
10
SPEAKER_00
That s, yeah, I think most people would.
10
SPEAKER_02
Still not cheating to me.
10
SPEAKER_00
Well, to most people it is.
10
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I believe you re right that a lot of people would be, but like if I walked in and Kristen was watching a video of a guy jacking off that he had sent her that on DM.
10
SPEAKER_00
That she knows?
10
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it wouldn t be cheating.
10
SPEAKER_02
The fact that she watched it, she was curious and wanted to watch it.
10
SPEAKER_02
I don t, for me, that doesn t constitute cheating.
10
SPEAKER_02
Because what s the difference between that and pornography?
10
SPEAKER_02
So now we ve drawn a line between you can watch pornography, but if you know one of the actors in the pornography, then that s an issue.
10
SPEAKER_02
So that s just a very arbitrary and interesting line.
10
SPEAKER_00
No, if you know them and you talk to them in life and you re around them in life, it s much different than a stranger.
10
SPEAKER_01
Different than her just watching once or what do you catch her like three weeks later watching and masturbating?
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_02
Okay, great So what this is what I m suggesting so like yeah on the surface you re like, oh my god She s jerking off this dude that she knows but like if I walk in and she s jerking off watching pornography The physical reality is identical.
10
SPEAKER_02
She s having a fantasy about other people to climax
10
SPEAKER_02
And so what I m really saying is like, I don t mind her imagining being with these people sexually to climax by herself, but I mind if she s watching someone she knows to climax.
10
SPEAKER_02
Okay, so that seems like an obvious line until you think,
10
SPEAKER_02
I don t think I have a right to tell her she s not allowed to masturbate in her head about people she knows.
10
SPEAKER_02
So all we ve added is like a video component.
10
SPEAKER_02
Like I m fine with her masturbating to people she knows.
10
SPEAKER_02
And then I m fine with her masturbating to videos if it s pornography.
10
SPEAKER_02
So weirdly, I don t think it s as clear cut.
10
SPEAKER_00
But it is, well, it s not clear cut.
10
SPEAKER_00
Again, everyone s making their own rules for this, but it is crossing an emotional line.
10
SPEAKER_00
If someone is sending a video that they made for the person and- But let s just say she s never sent anything back.
10
SPEAKER_02
She s just consumed it.
10
SPEAKER_02
Now, where it gets, now I think you add another layer.
10
SPEAKER_02
It s like, I walk in and she s FaceTime masturbating with somebody she knows.
10
SPEAKER_02
Then that s like time to chat.
10
Right?
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I mean, look, again, and we need to, you re an anomaly and most people are very uncomfortable, would be extremely uncomfortable.
10
SPEAKER_02
And I m not judgmental of those people, I would ask them to not be judgmental of me back.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you have your own opinions on this.
10
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I m just not terribly threatened by that stuff.
10
SPEAKER_00
Right, I mean, but emotional shit mixed with physical shit, that s, it s the, I think,
10
SPEAKER_02
if it was Mike Schur.
10
SPEAKER_02
No, I was just kidding.
10
SPEAKER_02
I already said this on his episode, so I don t even feel bad saying it again.
10
SPEAKER_02
Her and Mike Schur going to a book conference in Pennsylvania for two days, that s way more problematic to me than her masturbating watching a video.
10
SPEAKER_00
of him that he sent her?
10
SPEAKER_00
Because that means when they go anywhere together.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it is, it is, it is.
10
SPEAKER_00
The chances of them really crossing the line are much higher.
10
SPEAKER_02
But again, I m threatened by Mike s philanthropic good nature.
10
SPEAKER_02
The thing I can t compete with.
10
SPEAKER_02
That s the thing that threatens me is what I can t compete with.
10
SPEAKER_00
But don t you think part of why she would be masturbating to him.
10
SPEAKER_02
Is because of the books.
10
SPEAKER_00
It is, it s because of his whole package.
10
SPEAKER_00
It s not his sexuality.
10
SPEAKER_00
That s, I think one thing, again, that s different often between men and women.
10
SPEAKER_00
Women are not necessarily, which is why back to the original premise of this whole thing where I m picking these penises, right?
10
SPEAKER_02
But I m thrilled you re actually excited about this.
10
SPEAKER_02
Cause I could even see you saying like, well, I don t care about the penis.
10
SPEAKER_02
That s where I thought you were going to go at one point.
10
SPEAKER_00
I am sort of getting there now, unfortunately.
10
SPEAKER_02
I had a hunch it was gonna go here.
10
SPEAKER_00
That s the truth about women.
10
SPEAKER_00
You re attracted to the... I keep forgetting.
10
SPEAKER_00
I know, it s okay.
10
SPEAKER_00
I m so sorry.
10
SPEAKER_02
It s okay.
10
SPEAKER_02
Every time you re making a point, I m like...
10
SPEAKER_00
You re attracted to the whole piece and the personality and the connection and those things skyrocket the sexuality to a much different level.
10
SPEAKER_00
Of course.
10
SPEAKER_00
That is threatening.
10
SPEAKER_02
Although women do watch pornography in enormously high numbers.
10
SPEAKER_00
Totally.
10
SPEAKER_00
But I think they re picturing
10
SPEAKER_02
They re projecting a personality onto them?
10
SPEAKER_00
Yes, I don t think it s just.
10
SPEAKER_02
That s probably true, because I project onto them, and in fact, this is, I ve already talked about this too, but again, if it s your first time, great, this will be your first time hearing it.
10
SPEAKER_00
Welcome to Armchair Expert.
10
SPEAKER_02
Yes, welcome, I hope you re enjoying it.
10
SPEAKER_02
It s not normally this pervy, but also it is sometimes this pervy.
10
SPEAKER_02
When I m looking through the options for pornography.
10
SPEAKER_00
Even though you don t,
10
SPEAKER_00
I often look at porn.
10
SPEAKER_02
I don t.
10
SPEAKER_02
And I think I ve been so honest this whole time.
10
SPEAKER_02
I hope people will believe me.
10
SPEAKER_02
I think some people watch porn every day.
10
SPEAKER_02
I watch porn like probably twice a month I ll watch porn.
10
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
10
SPEAKER_02
Right?
10
SPEAKER_02
24 times a year I ll do it.
10
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
10
SPEAKER_02
I forget it s even a thing.
10
SPEAKER_00
Right.
10
SPEAKER_02
When I do, and I m scrolling through these pages, when I m on high, I know from listening to Stern, guys are like, they like stepsister porn, or they like babysitter porn.
10
SPEAKER_02
They have a genre they like.
10
SPEAKER_02
I like porn where I actually think the girl s super into it and getting off.
10
SPEAKER_00
Right, you want it to be real.
10
SPEAKER_02
And I m like, I m scanning to try to evaluate whether I think this woman s enjoying it or not.
10
SPEAKER_00
That s nice.
10
SPEAKER_02
Because my projection is like giving tons of pleasure in being validated as being good and all that stuff.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_02
But yes, so ultimately I m projecting, yeah we are I guess, I m at least searching to find the thing I think that matches what I m,
10
SPEAKER_00
what you want in life.
10
SPEAKER_02
So maybe like sexually women who have a personality type or like they re scanning through and then that guy looks like a jock.
10
SPEAKER_02
I don t like that.
10
SPEAKER_00
This guy looks like, yeah, probably.
10
SPEAKER_00
Or I just think it s more a whole blown out fantasy versus just sexual pleasure.
10
SPEAKER_00
Like, yeah, the physicality of it.
10
SPEAKER_00
There s more, there s more happening with women.
10
SPEAKER_02
As we learned, responsive and or spontaneous arousal people.
10
SPEAKER_00
Vanessa Marin.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, she s been getting, I mean, people love that episode.
10
SPEAKER_00
It was a great episode.
10
SPEAKER_00
It was a great episode.
10
SPEAKER_02
If you re first time listening, go back and listen to that one.
10
SPEAKER_00
Okay, well, I still haven t picked my penises.
10
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah, okay, so we got, we have three of the five.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, we have three of the five.
10
SPEAKER_00
I want Brad Pitt s.
10
SPEAKER_02
Okay, great, yeah.
10
SPEAKER_02
That s the kind, you know what s funny is if you had this penis collection,
10
SPEAKER_02
I can only imagine there d be one that when girlfriends came over, you d be like, you want to see Brad Bitsby?
10
SPEAKER_02
You probably have.
11
SPEAKER_00
in a lucite box and show people.
11
SPEAKER_00
Maybe some lighting.
11
SPEAKER_00
If we interview him, I m gonna ask him, not for you, but I m gonna ask him, has anyone asked you to make a mold of your penis?
11
SPEAKER_00
And is it something you would do for somebody?
11
SPEAKER_00
Because that seems like a pretty good interview question.
11
SPEAKER_01
I feel like maybe we shouldn t put this out there, because then he s definitely not coming on.
11
SPEAKER_01
Okay, and then,
11
SPEAKER_01
And obviously I m not like, no one in my life is on my list.
11
SPEAKER_01
I m intentionally like, no one in my life is on my list.
11
SPEAKER_01
Charlie is not on the list.
11
SPEAKER_00
Don t have your feelings hurt Ryan.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, exactly.
11
SPEAKER_00
What if you said Rob?
11
SPEAKER_01
No, Rob s in my life.
11
SPEAKER_01
He can t be on the list.
11
SPEAKER_00
The looping guy?
11
SPEAKER_01
I was just thinking about him.
11
SPEAKER_00
You were considering him.
11
SPEAKER_01
I was considering him.
11
SPEAKER_00
Or Donald Glover.
11
SPEAKER_01
I was considering him too.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
I know.
11
SPEAKER_01
Okay, here s the other problem.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
11
SPEAKER_01
Donald Glover.
11
SPEAKER_00
Just because they have the personality you love doesn t mean that s an ideal dildo.
11
SPEAKER_01
Correct.
11
SPEAKER_01
And like, he s so sexy, but his dick on its own is not so sexy.
11
SPEAKER_01
It s just, it just is.
11
SPEAKER_00
Now we re back to, yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
That s why, that is why Ben and Matt are so- Premium?
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, really.
11
SPEAKER_01
Like, because I have so much emotional connection to those.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you ll hold it and you ll be like, oh, I m holding his penis.
11
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
I m getting excited just thinking about it.
11
SPEAKER_01
Like even Carmelo is not that, except I do think.
11
SPEAKER_00
That s more like I think you are visceral, erotic.
11
SPEAKER_01
I get excited because I know.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, primal.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
The way your clothes exploded.
11
SPEAKER_01
I m only gonna send out three emails.
11
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
11
SPEAKER_00
So Donald no, and Lupin no.
11
SPEAKER_01
I think no.
11
SPEAKER_00
And Brad Pitt no.
11
SPEAKER_01
Oh yeah, oh four.
11
SPEAKER_00
Four, that s great, you got 80%.
11
SPEAKER_01
I m gonna think about the fifth.
11
SPEAKER_00
I wanna pick someone weird for you.
11
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
11
SPEAKER_00
I want you to do like a genius.
11
Why?
11
SPEAKER_00
Because maybe there s something special about that.
11
SPEAKER_01
Oh, you just wanna see what it looks like?
11
SPEAKER_00
And I think you could like dial into exactly what we re talking about with Ben and Matt.
11
SPEAKER_00
Like if you had Einstein s penis.
11
SPEAKER_01
Oh, oh, we can do ghosts.
11
SPEAKER_00
But no, but I use him as an example of someone that might be thrilling.
11
SPEAKER_01
Oh, you know who I d wanna do if there was a ghost?
11
SPEAKER_00
Shakespeare s penis, who s?
11
SPEAKER_01
JFK Jr.
11
SPEAKER_00
Right, you d love that.
11
SPEAKER_00
Hold it, hold it.
11
SPEAKER_01
It s just so waspy, it s such a waspy dick.
11
SPEAKER_00
The mold was one color, but it comes out translucent white.
11
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God, or, or, ooh, I should, nevermind.
11
SPEAKER_00
Do it.
11
SPEAKER_01
I was gonna say like someone from high school who I wanted badly.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yes, that s good.
11
SPEAKER_01
And then I felt bad saying that because then it felt like a teenage dick, but they re adults now.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
I think I would be like so,
11
SPEAKER_01
mean to that one.
11
SPEAKER_00
Oh, you slam it in the door?
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, because it was, it didn t, yeah, they never gave it to me.
11
SPEAKER_00
You would hate fuck that one.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yes, exactly.
11
SPEAKER_00
This is incredible, it s incredible.
11
SPEAKER_01
It is, okay, look, it s a ding, ding, ding, because this is for Bradley Cooper, a very coveted.
11
SPEAKER_00
Where most people would want a copy of his dick.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yes, and I ruled him out because it didn t feel appropriate for this.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s good, that s smart.
11
SPEAKER_01
Okay, one of the facts is when Bradley says, and you said it too, but it s like him disliking his face.
11
SPEAKER_00
Oh, uh-huh.
11
SPEAKER_01
Which I believe him, right?
11
SPEAKER_01
Like he s not lying, he s not, that s true.
11
SPEAKER_01
But it s like a little bit, it s like when like- When Bezos feels broke?
11
SPEAKER_01
No, but when models go on talk shows and say they were tomboys.
11
SPEAKER_01
and you re a little like, oh God, like you can t.
11
SPEAKER_00
I know what you re saying, but I think it s different because I think he s not pretending he was a dork in high school.
11
SPEAKER_00
Some of these really hot, look, there was an Amy Schumer sketch about it.
11
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
11
SPEAKER_00
The famous great one.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
11
SPEAKER_00
It s a well-worn thing.
11
SPEAKER_00
I was, no guys like me and I was like a gaming nerd.
11
SPEAKER_00
That I think is a lie.
11
SPEAKER_01
But the problem, I don t think it s fair for us to say that.
11
SPEAKER_01
I don t think it s fair.
11
SPEAKER_00
But there was so many.
11
SPEAKER_01
I know.
11
SPEAKER_00
There was so many that there was a sketch about it.
11
SPEAKER_00
So I definitely think they know it s easy to hate someone as beautiful as them.
11
SPEAKER_00
And it just feels like less...
11
SPEAKER_00
You would hate them less if you found out that they were an awkward duckling for a while.
11
SPEAKER_01
That s what we are saying.
11
SPEAKER_01
Like, I don t know.
11
SPEAKER_01
I just, it gives me a little compassion for those women who we ve now like made, we have like made jokes about like, oh God, like they re saying they re a tomboy or that.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
They ugly ducklings, but they probably were.
11
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
11
SPEAKER_00
That s possible.
11
SPEAKER_01
I think it s funny because when Bradley Cooper, who objectively, exactly, is saying he doesn t like the way he looks, it just is reminiscent to me of when a model goes on a talk show and says they were a tomboy.
11
SPEAKER_00
So what s interesting though is like- But I just think it s funny.
11
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah, I see your point.
11
SPEAKER_00
I recognize your point.
11
SPEAKER_00
I don t see it the same.
11
SPEAKER_00
If Ashton was doing that, that to me would be identical to the models from CWD doing it.
11
SPEAKER_00
There is a class of dudes.
11
SPEAKER_00
If Josh Duhamel was saying it and Ashton was saying it and some of these other like pretty boy models were saying it, I think for me it would also file into the category of the crazy hot actresses who have done it.
11
SPEAKER_01
I think it s also hard, you ve been friends with him, you ve been friends with him for so long, and you ve been on the ride.
11
SPEAKER_01
I think it might be hard for you to see.
11
SPEAKER_00
I m trapped in his lower status.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I think so.
11
SPEAKER_00
I m glad I am, I guess.
11
SPEAKER_01
No, you should be.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, we met trying to claw our way into that.
11
SPEAKER_00
number seven on the call sheet of wedding crashers.
11
SPEAKER_01
So it s just different when he just appears on the scene in the hangover.
11
SPEAKER_00
Coming down the escalator in the suit.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and it s like, who is this person?
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, powerful.
11
SPEAKER_01
Powerful.
11
SPEAKER_00
Now I wonder if what he would admit, because I would like to hear it from him, and I ve never even asked him,
11
SPEAKER_00
I d like to know if he does acknowledge he has an animal magnetism because I could see him not liking his face, but recognizing, yeah, somehow I do have a major power over girls.
11
SPEAKER_01
I think he,
11
SPEAKER_00
He has to know that.
11
SPEAKER_01
Well, I don t think so based on what he was saying about Leonard and like his magnetism and his weapons.
11
SPEAKER_01
He was saying if not like I can relate type of, my take from that was that he doesn t recognize that he s him, that he also has all those weapons and does have a magnetism that people are just very drawn to.
11
SPEAKER_01
Okay, so the Catalyst suit he talks about that he works out in.
11
SPEAKER_00
Mm, yes.
11
SPEAKER_01
It s Catalyst with a K. Yes.
11
SPEAKER_01
It has EMS technology.
11
SPEAKER_00
Electromagnetic surge.
11
SPEAKER_00
Systems.
11
SPEAKER_01
And yeah, you wear it, it s FDA cleared for consumer use, custom suit sizing, machine washable textiles.
11
SPEAKER_00
Oh, wow.
11
SPEAKER_01
Unlike your donuts from the Apple.
11
SPEAKER_00
I wonder if you can give it, well, they just arrived, by the way.
11
SPEAKER_00
Oh, exciting.
11
SPEAKER_00
I did my first meditation this morning with the new donuts on.
11
SPEAKER_00
Exciting, you know, I decided to do is go to tone.
11
SPEAKER_00
So I have the green ones, but then I got those silvery white Donuts and I like how it looks nice.
11
SPEAKER_01
I like that.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, cool Okay, I put the green ones in the dishwasher.
11
SPEAKER_00
I ll let you know
11
SPEAKER_01
Yuck.
11
SPEAKER_00
We re sitting in there right now waiting to be blasted.
11
SPEAKER_01
Wait, did you really?
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
Dax.
11
SPEAKER_00
What?
11
SPEAKER_01
It s going to make everything so stinky in there.
11
SPEAKER_00
In the dishwasher?
11
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
11
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I don t think so.
11
SPEAKER_00
It s like a nuclear bomb goes off in this thing.
11
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
11
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
11
SPEAKER_01
Well, it says you can do a full body workout in 20 minutes with zero compromises.
11
SPEAKER_00
Oh, wow.
11
SPEAKER_00
Good, because I hate compromising.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so that s that.
11
SPEAKER_01
Okay, the reality TV show that you wondered if he was talking about but he wasn t is called Naked Attraction.
11
SPEAKER_01
That s the one where the...
11
SPEAKER_01
Penises are- Everything gets exposed.
11
SPEAKER_00
Right.
11
SPEAKER_00
Okay, now you know what s interesting?
11
SPEAKER_00
I m now gonna join your side of the street a little bit.
11
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
11
SPEAKER_00
Which is I watched an episode of that or something.
11
SPEAKER_00
What I can relate to is I haven t seen the person yet.
11
SPEAKER_01
Oh, it s not remotely sexy.
11
SPEAKER_00
No, like I see the vagina and I m like, yeah, I just don t know what it s attached to.
11
SPEAKER_00
I m not willing yet to- Interesting, yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
So you realize it is subjective and tied together to some degree.
11
SPEAKER_01
It is.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
Okay, why can kids be around dad s poop?
11
SPEAKER_00
Did you get some info on this?
11
SPEAKER_01
I asked Adam Grant.
11
SPEAKER_00
Oh.
11
SPEAKER_01
If he could help me, if he could point me in the right direction.
11
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
11
SPEAKER_01
He gave me.
11
SPEAKER_00
This is too PG-13 for him, did he like immediately bristle?
11
SPEAKER_01
I said I m sorry, I said I have a pretty disgusting fact to check.
11
SPEAKER_00
Uh-huh.
12
SPEAKER_01
kids often come into the bathroom to tell him things while he s going to the bathroom and they don t seem to care about the smell.
12
SPEAKER_01
Our guests had the same situation with their kid.
12
SPEAKER_01
I wondered if there was some sort of evolutionary explanation for this.
12
SPEAKER_01
Do you know anyone who could answer this?
12
SPEAKER_01
I m sorry to rope you into this very gross inquiry. 
12
SPEAKER_01
And then he responded with like this face.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, exactly.
12
SPEAKER_01
Like a yikes, but also a laughing face.
12
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
12
SPEAKER_00
And then he- A little, just a little laugh.
12
SPEAKER_01
And then he gave me an email of someone at Yale.
12
SPEAKER_01
So that s TBD, I haven t.
12
SPEAKER_00
Oh, okay, great.
12
SPEAKER_00
So this is kind of gonna be a multi-part exploration.
12
SPEAKER_01
Also, when I just did this, it reminded me, in Mr. and Mrs. Smith, she does your thing.
12
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I know, I know.
12
SPEAKER_01
She looks in the mirror and makes this horrifying face.
12
SPEAKER_00
She does so many great things in that show.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
She s so good.
12
SPEAKER_01
She is.
12
SPEAKER_00
I love when Mr. and Mrs. Smith gets into race stuff.
12
SPEAKER_00
I love it.
12
SPEAKER_00
You just don t see it.
12
SPEAKER_00
Everyone s pretending that people talk different than they do.
12
SPEAKER_01
He gets to tell that side of it, you know?
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and she gets to tell the Asian side.
12
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
12
SPEAKER_00
But I m just refreshed because like these are the real
12
SPEAKER_00
fucking conversations couples have about everybody.
12
SPEAKER_00
Like no one s putting their best foot forward to appear good in public and not get canceled.
12
SPEAKER_00
And you just don t see it on TV anymore and it s kind of maddening because I know what real life is about.
12
SPEAKER_00
Couples talk about race, they talk about everything.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_01
Okay, there s the five minutes of History of Music, Leonard.
12
SPEAKER_00
Oh, fuck, I forgot to look that up.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I was gonna play it, but this is going long.
12
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
12
SPEAKER_01
So, check that out on your own time.
12
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
12
SPEAKER_00
If this is your first episode, we don t normally give homework, so don t think this is standard.
12
SPEAKER_01
But sometimes I do.
12
SPEAKER_00
Probably one in, about as frequently as I watch pornography, so.
12
SPEAKER_00
Once, twice a month, maybe.
12
SPEAKER_00
You ll get homework.
12
SPEAKER_01
Okay, oh, he says skadoosh when he s talking about his meditation pose.
12
SPEAKER_01
And that s from Kung Fu Panda.
12
SPEAKER_01
Right.
12
SPEAKER_01
That s it.
12
SPEAKER_00
I wanna say for the record, I deeply, deeply enjoyed this interview.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, me too.
12
SPEAKER_00
And it really stuck with me and it really made some things click for me.
12
SPEAKER_00
And it s one of my favorite chats I ve had with Bradley, which is like stuff that then I brought into therapy to kind of discuss.
12
SPEAKER_00
And I just like, like he, you know, when I bring up all this stuff of like, it s hard for me to watch a guy that I m on a spectrum of, and these are my qualities I hate.
12
SPEAKER_00
And to hear that he,
12
SPEAKER_00
Like he had no defensiveness against that.
12
SPEAKER_00
He was very much like, Oh yeah, I have the same kind of thoughts.
12
SPEAKER_00
And I ve obviously he s been thinking about it for two years and I ve been thinking about it for 36 hours.
12
SPEAKER_00
And so kind of like once again, his, his synthesis of it and maybe his compassion he has for that person was just kind of, I liked observing it.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
I thought it was.
12
SPEAKER_00
It was nice, you know, Coop has a history, I have to acknowledge of like every five years, he kind of, he has a little pearl of wisdom I end up using a lot.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
You know, I never even finished my list.
12
SPEAKER_00
It occurred to me after the end of the interview, I said something like that, you ve taught me three really.
12
SPEAKER_01
Three, actually can you share because.
12
SPEAKER_00
I can t remember the third, but the first one, right, was it about people talking bad about other people?
12
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so that one was really a light bulb moment.
12
SPEAKER_00
The other was while in a relationship, not Kristen, him teaching me how to acknowledge what fear this situation is really bringing up.
12
SPEAKER_00
Because I would say the whole fight, and he would say, wow, if a woman said that to me, I would be feeling very less than, or I d be feeling very this and that.
12
SPEAKER_00
I really couldn t think that way yet.
12
SPEAKER_00
That was 18 years ago or something.
12
SPEAKER_00
I just couldn t, I was so stuck on that that was a mean thing to say to me, or that was objectively bitchy or cruel.
12
SPEAKER_00
And I didn t then think, well, probably that same statement wouldn t affect someone else that had a different set of fears.
12
SPEAKER_00
So why does that affect me?
12
SPEAKER_00
Like adding the piece of like, why is that so impactful to me?
12
SPEAKER_00
What fear do I have?
12
SPEAKER_00
And then like him encouraging me to say to that person, when you said X, it brought up this fear in me and I am very insecure about this.
12
SPEAKER_00
And like, that s the impact.
12
SPEAKER_00
And that felt like if I were to have ever done that in front of a woman, she d be so put off by me being weak and vulnerable that she d be out the door.
12
SPEAKER_00
And it was always the opposite reaction.
12
SPEAKER_00
And I did not think, that was like a paradigm shift for me.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, wow.
12
SPEAKER_01
That s great.
12
SPEAKER_00
That s like the beginning of the whole vulnerability thing maybe.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and then I can t articulate the third thing.
12
SPEAKER_01
I think I know what it is.
12
SPEAKER_01
Tell me I think I remember it it was You were saying you were sharing something with him.
12
SPEAKER_00
Mm-hmm.
12
SPEAKER_01
And then he said, oh That s why you don t like
12
SPEAKER_01
Because you re him, basically.
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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SPEAKER_00
That was just a really punch-in-the-nose observation.
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SPEAKER_00
I already knew that, but I was ignoring that I knew that because I wanted to be judgmental of this person.
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SPEAKER_00
I wanted to hold on to that, my moral, righteous indignation.
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SPEAKER_00
No, it was a different situation.
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SPEAKER_00
I remember it very well.
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SPEAKER_00
And it was basically pointing out, I felt slighted by somebody.
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SPEAKER_00
very public.
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SPEAKER_00
And then I was about to be in public and I was going to share that.
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SPEAKER_00
And I had this all mapped out of why it was fine and why this person deserved that.
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SPEAKER_00
And they shouldn t acted this way if they didn t want this known, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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SPEAKER_00
And he listened to this whole story and he s just like, you know, you could totally do that.
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SPEAKER_00
He s like, but I do think when you engage in negative, like
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SPEAKER_00
then everyone just engages with negative around you.
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SPEAKER_00
And you just start this whole swell of negativity.
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SPEAKER_00
It never ends anywhere positive.
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SPEAKER_00
Then maybe that person responds and they are now forced to be negative.
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SPEAKER_00
And it s like, as opposed to putting your energy into starting a project that s negative and will result in more negativity.
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SPEAKER_00
Why not just ignore it and talk about the things that are positive and productive?
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SPEAKER_00
And again, I m not articulating that one so well, but throughout the course of this conversation we had, it occurred to me, yeah, I don t wanna do that.
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SPEAKER_00
That s why I don t ever shit on movies in here or I don t shit on things.
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SPEAKER_00
I think that came in 2012, me stopping shitting on things.
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SPEAKER_01
That s great.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
I have a theory that I don t think you d like, right?
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SPEAKER_01
We ve talked about it.
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SPEAKER_01
I think we talked about it last time he was on.
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SPEAKER_01
that I think he s one of the only people you, what s the word?
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SPEAKER_00
Really listen to?
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SPEAKER_01
Like can hear.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, he s in the Tom Hanson.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, there s like a very small amount of men, I guess.
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SPEAKER_01
Well, I ll say men.
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SPEAKER_00
That s what it is.
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SPEAKER_00
Because I think I actually don t have a hard time hearing women or learning from them.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, I think that s right.
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SPEAKER_00
But yeah, I have a real issue with men.
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SPEAKER_00
and there s very few that I just blindly trust that they re telling me something they believe and not that they have an ulterior motive for me.
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SPEAKER_01
I think you look up to him.
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SPEAKER_00
To Bradley?
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SPEAKER_01
I do think that.
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SPEAKER_01
I don t see you have that thing a lot with people.
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SPEAKER_00
You re right.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
You re absolutely right, yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
It s funny, I don t know why I would be hesitant to say I look up to him.
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SPEAKER_00
Because I do, I look up to parts of him.
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SPEAKER_00
I don t look up to him as an actor.
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SPEAKER_00
I don t look up to him.
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SPEAKER_00
So I guess I m like nervous people would think.
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SPEAKER_00
But yeah, somehow Tom Hanson synthesizes things in a way that I can hear what he s saying and they penetrate my brain.
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SPEAKER_00
And Cooper too.
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SPEAKER_00
And I think, well, I can tell you what both guys share in common, which is they re abnormally truthful about their character defects and their flaws.
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SPEAKER_00
And so I guess I just trust them a lot more.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s great.
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SPEAKER_00
And I think people who are like really not trying to hide that stuff about themselves, I can hear a lot better.
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SPEAKER_01
I also think it s kind of one of those, like, we don t always know why.
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SPEAKER_01
We don t always know why there are people in our lives who we just, like, there s something about them that we want to be or like, or like, it has nothing to do with how much you like or love a person.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, definitely Hanson and Jimmy are like dad figures for me.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
And Cooper s a brother figure for me.
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SPEAKER_01
Right, right.
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SPEAKER_00
That s why maybe I m like not, like I can t go straight look up, but that s, I don t know why, because I look up to my brother, I looked up to him growing up.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
So yeah, I definitely look up to Cooper.
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SPEAKER_00
That s my conclusion, I think you re right.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I think it s nice.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
It s good to have people to look up to.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
It s an act of humility in a sense.
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SPEAKER_00
It is.
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SPEAKER_00
Which is why I m struggling so hard right now.
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SPEAKER_01
I know.
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SPEAKER_01
I know.
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SPEAKER_00
I know.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I don t think you want to be in a position where, like, a pat on the back from nobody would feel special.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Okay, well, this was fun.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so much fun.
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SPEAKER_01
And welcome for those first time listeners.
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SPEAKER_01
We love having you.
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SPEAKER_00
Hope you stay.
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SPEAKER_01
Hope you ll stick around and give us another shot.
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SPEAKER_01
Love you.
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SPEAKER_00
Bye, love you.