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In this episode of the Advanced Selling Podcast, we put our new co-producer Lauren to work with a massively difficult task.
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I speak conversational Latin, and we tackle the problem of lack of control in the sales process.
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Welcome, everybody, back to the Advanced Selling Podcast, the longest running sales training podcast in sales training podcast history.
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My name is Brian Neal.
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You sounded like Harry Carey there.
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Oh, did I?
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I didn t mean to.
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Good afternoon, everybody.
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That s a that s a tough.
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You got to be careful with your Harry Carey impersonations because it s got to be spot on.
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There s some good ones out there.
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Yeah, it s one of those people you got to.
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I ve been working on my Keith Morrison.
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You know him from Daylight?
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Oh yeah, I love Keith Morrison.
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Gosh, I could listen to that guy and read anything.
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Oh.
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Yeah.
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I ll tell a story sometime about a video that I did where I tried to mimic him.
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It is not easy.
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No.
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I thought I nailed it, then I went back and listened to it.
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It s not easy.
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Hey, if you re having a sales meeting or national sales conference as the fall approaches, we still have slots or two available, not many going into the back half of the year.
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But alls you need to do, alls you need to do, welcome to Evansville, y all.
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Alls y all need to do.
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is send us an email, listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com.
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Put come see us in the subject line, and we ll get the process started to come out and visit.
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It s a really, really great, fun event, and we d love to go do that.
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Oh, I found a new venue, by the way, local venue for us to talk about.
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Oh, really?
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Yeah, yesterday.
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Beautiful.
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We should do a podcast.
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We ll do a live podcast here in Indy.
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Where is it?
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Topgolf.
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Oh, yeah, the third level of Topgolf has an outdoor stage and a seating area.
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It s gorgeous, really gorgeous.
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I was out there at sunset last night.
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I thought, ooh, this is a good venue.
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Anywho, I was listening to a radio station, Z100 in New York City, Elvis Duran in the morning.
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It s on satellite radio.
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It s syndicated across the country.
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And they brought up a really interesting topic that I thought kind of fit some of the things we talk about.
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I wanted to see if you could come up with one of these.
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So you know how we, in life, we just sort of complain about things?
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And when you really step back perspective-wise, you look at the rest of the planet, there are people in way worse situations.
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There are people who don t have running water, who haven t eaten in weeks, who have disease and things like that.
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Totally agree.
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But we sometimes, in the Western world, especially in America, tend to complain about things that make our life horrible.
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And I wondered if anything popped in your mind.
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One thing that came to my mind when he said it, and I actually texted it into the show, was I was on a flight sitting up in first class a few weeks ago, and the Wi-Fi wasn t working.
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And I just about lost my lid.
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I m like, the Wi-Fi is not working.
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Well, I don t know.
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Can you have the pilot reset it?
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And bring me another mimosa up in front.
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What is my problem?
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I m on an airplane going 680 miles an hour, and I m trying to text my high school buddies, and I can t because the Wi-Fi in the airplane is out, and I ve got a bad life.
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That was my perspective complaint thing.
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That s great.
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Tony Robbins tells a story about back when planes really didn t have Wi-Fi or didn t have any kind of stuff like that.
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He would get on a plane, and he says, one time I got on a plane.
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And I knew that I was going to be out of commission for three hours.
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And the lady comes into the cockpit and says, well, we ve got some good news for you passengers who was flying first class.
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She says, we re going to have Wi-Fi today.
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And people are like yelling and screaming.
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And then like 30 minutes into the flight, it stopped working.
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And then people were like, you got on the plane not expecting anything, but just that little glimpse.
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Totally.
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You couldn t live without it.
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Isn t that funny, though?
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It was a good little exercise.
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And people were calling in with their, it s an interesting perspective journal where you re like, oh my gosh, I really shouldn t complain about this.
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We should always, like every day during our gratitude hour or whatever, we should be thinking about that.
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For sure.
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Yeah.
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So topic today is something that I m going to go and use a strong word here, Bill.
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I m going to say this is an epidemic, or maybe it s a pandemic.
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What s the difference between an epidemic and a pandemic?
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I don t know.
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Pandemic, isn t that across the world?
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Is that what it is?
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I think pan refers to the geography of the epidemic.
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Epidemic is like right close to something.
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Is that what it is?
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Yeah.
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Can you look that up, Lorne?
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So I think we re putting our newest member of the Advanced Learning Podcast team, Lorne Edwards, to work.
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Glad to have Lauren here.
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You re going to be hearing from her and about her a lot later.
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She is, right now, looking up the definition of pandemic.
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That s why we pay her a huge, huge return on our investment here with Lauren.
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When she gets really on the ball, she would have come back with a Keith Morrison clip.
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When she types it in Google, it s so much better than when I type it in Google on my phone right here, right?
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It s much more better, much more.
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OK, so let s pandemic.
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Let s call this a worldwide problem.
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What s that?
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Pandemic is the geography.
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It s just a bar.
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Geography, very good.
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You re smart.
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OK, so in my travels and speaking with salespeople and doing coaching, I am seeing a trend over and over and over.
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And that is that for some reason, we still have lost control of the sales process, and we have lost our assertiveness.
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We ve lost our gumption, our edge to lean into a deal, to drive it to a close, and that sort of thing.
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And I m not talking about in a cheesy,
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salesway, closing, or anything, I m simply talking about the work involved to put the work in to get a deal done is what I think has been missing.
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And I term it when I m coaching, I know, Bill, you ve used this word too, is I feel like we re lacking some assertiveness.
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in the sales process all the way through, not just at the end, but in the beginning and all the way through, that we re doing too much kind of polite, passive, what would you like to do next?
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What would you like to do next?
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We re kind of constantly giving control back.
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Kind of in the spirit of collaboration, but that s not really appropriate.
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Yeah, that s, I think, part of the myth is we think being collaborative means asking the other person what they want to do.
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And if you have been in a romantic relationship ever, or even maybe a friendship, companionship, and you ve ever done this for dinnertime, you will know that asking your partner where they d like to go eat is not a collaborative question.
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And it feels like it is.
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Where would you like to go eat?
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And then the person says, I ll go anywhere.
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You go, great.
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We ll go to Applebee s.
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And they go, no, I don t want to go to Applebee s.
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No, not Applebee s.
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We just ate there last week.
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You just said.
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So the problem with that is that s not collaborative either.
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And so if you re listening to this, if you re a sales manager also, by the way, a VP of sales,
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really, really great podcast to listen to, because I want you to take a pulse of your team and say, oh my gosh, my team has this.
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I have this passive, yeah, passivitis, if we will, right?
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Affliction, passivitis.
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Let s write that down.
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Put that in Wikipedia.
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Yeah, it s the Urban Dictionary has another entry.
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Passivitis.
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We should start our own dictionary.
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We can do that.
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We could do that.
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Our first entry will be passivitis.
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I think we ve got some other ones, too.
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Yeah, I think that s good.
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I think there s a tension, too, between, for a sales professional, between control and collaboration.
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And if you go in too hot and you say, well, look, Mr. Prosser, I ll tell you exactly how we re going to do this.
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We re going to meet.
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You and I are going to talk.
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We re going to bring your CEO in.
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And then we re going to talk.
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Then I m going to send you a proposal.
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And you can decide on the moment, on the spot.
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We re not going to give you.
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I think now you re way overboard.
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So yes, is that assertiveness?
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Yeah, but that s unhealthy assertiveness.
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So I think it s finding that middle ground between being in control and still being collaborative and being elegant about how you lay out the process.
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That s very good.
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Elegance.
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Sales elegance.
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Intention.
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We should write a book called Sales Elegance.
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That s a good word.
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So if you re a salesperson and you re listening to this, you should be thinking this is a look in the mirror episode where you re going, man, I could really use a little shot in the arm here.
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We re going to give you some thought things and some to-do items here.
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And you re assessing yourself right now.
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You re looking at yourself, boy, I think I ve got this passivitis thing going on.
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Sales managers and leaders, you re thinking about your team right now as you re listening to this going, oh my gosh, we got this too.
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And I went to church this weekend.
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Oh, good for you.
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Did you pray for me?
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I did.
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Thank you.
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And the pastor was talking about the spectrum of grace and truth.
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And grace is where someone says, hey Bill, I m sorry I didn t call you back yesterday.
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And this person, maybe they have a pattern of it.
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And you say, with grace, you say, ah, don t worry about it.
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No big deal.
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Don t worry about it.
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No big deal.
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But the truth is it bothered you.
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And so how do you bring out the truth and still do it with a, with an, so how do you bring out the truth and still have elegance around it?
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The process is the challenge in that spectrum.
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And it s, and this guy said, you know, it s really both.
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You can do it with both grace and truth, but you have to, you have to bring truth into it.
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It s, it s amazing to me how often truth is just
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a casualty of sales, and it s a casualty of buying.
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We just don t tell the truth.
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We re not lying.
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We re just not telling the whole truth.
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Correct.
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One of my good friends, he s so good at this.
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He says to me, and he lives this, I have no place in my life for resentments at all.
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He just can t handle them personally.
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When he resents someone.
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When he resents himself.
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Anything happens in a relationship, he always tells them.
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And he says things, he was on a trip with some buddies, and they were making fun of his shirt.
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And it bothered him.
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And he said, uh-huh.
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He s laughing.
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All night, he s thinking about it.
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Next day, he got up.
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He s like, hey, I want to let you guys know.
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It really, really bothered me.
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You guys were making fun of my shirt yesterday.
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And for guys to do that, that s a big deal.
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You know what I mean?
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It s like a weird thing, but good things.
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Anyway, so let s get into some of the memory.
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Or I might say to him, B, get to the point in your life where that doesn t bother you.
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That too.
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Correct.
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That part of it too.
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Or C, get it over with.
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You sure, because it is awful.
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Exactly.
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Let s see.
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Yeah.
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That s good.
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Anywho, OK.
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So let s talk about a couple of these things.
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Yeah, good.
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Now, some of these things, as I said, are thinking things first.
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And so I first want you to think about this.
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And when I m teaching this, I always use this word assertiveness.
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And when we re doing the self-assessment, we do a little scale.
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We put passiveness on the left with a dot.
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All the way in the right side of the scale is assertiveness.
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And I plot where I am just in general in my life, in my sales life, especially here.
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All right.
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So I m doing that first.
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Then I can also do it on a deal by deal basis.
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So it s a little to do item for you.
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What you re trying to get is your energy around a deal and saying on this deal, I ve been doing a good job leaning in, following up to, you know, pushing that sort of thing.
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This one I probably set back.
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I m fearful or I m scared of something.
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So that first thing I like is the assessment of,
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on my passive assertive scale where it is.
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By the way, a little caveat here, assertive does not mean aggressive.
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No.
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Assertiveness is aggressiveness with high intent.
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Assertiveness is aggressiveness with high intent.
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With no high intent, aggressiveness becomes off-putting demand.
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Yeah.
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See that?
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Becomes bullying, really.
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That s bullying, yes, even better.
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OK?
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So make sure you re checking your intent, something Bill and I talk about a lot on the podcast here.
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So do you think that conditionally, when I enter a deal,
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If it s a bigger deal, do I slip down to passive?
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Is there kind of an automatic?
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That s a good question.
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I m more fearful because there s more at stake.
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Oh, I don t want to mess this up.
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I certainly can t tell them the entire truth.
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Yeah, I do.
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And this is top of the mind answers.
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I m thinking back through the people and interactions I ve had with my clients that triggered this.
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That s a trigger.
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So the size of the deal is a trigger.
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the level of person that I m speaking with and my degree of the relationship with them.
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So if the person is lower on the decision-making grid and I have a good relationship with them, I m more fearful to press, if that makes sense.
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And what I do then, and this is what I see these clients doing, is they look for validation of their belief.
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And so they say things like, well, I sent him an email.
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He snipped back at me with one line.
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So there you go.
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See?
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That s how he is.
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And I m like, no, you can t.
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You re looking for reasons to stay passive is what they re doing.
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They re looking for reasons.
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Where with your intent, you should look for reasons to be more assertive if your intent is high.
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If you are complaining that you re out of shape, and I give you some ideas on exercise, and I come to you, and you re like, you know, it hurts my hips too bad.
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At some point, I m like, Bill, I ve got a question on you.
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I ve got a wooden leg.
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I mean, I can t do those one-legged push-ups on a wooden leg.
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Exactly.
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And so it s my duty, if I care about you, to continue.
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Like, Bill, you can t do this, man.
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You got it.
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Come on, let s go.
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Let s do it again.
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Let s get back in it.
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What a great trainer does.
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Right.
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And they keep coming back in a nice, supportive way.
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Here s something else that, as you were talking about the triggers I thought about, is I liked your, these are the triggers that cause you to move to passive, correct?
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Correct.
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So here s a trigger that might cause you to move to more assertive.
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And it is within your control, too.
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So this is a nice thing.
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And that is, what s the presenting problem?
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So you show up at the prospect s office, and they say, Bryant, man, I m so glad you re here.
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My sales team, I love them all.
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I got 25 of them, but we could be doing
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five times what we re doing now.
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We run into problems A, B, C, D, and E if we don t get this thing fixed.
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It s going to be a $20 million shortfall.
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Our profitability s good, but it could be 5X.
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And I ve got a million dollars to spend, and I don t know what I m doing, so can you help me?
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Well, if that s the presenting problem, you don t have to worry about being passive, because they have laid everything out for you.
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So on the other hand, if you show up and I say, well, Brian, yeah, no, I ve heard a little bit about you.
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Tell me how you can help me.
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Tell me what you got.
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What can you do to help my team grow?
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Now, there s like this.
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The control is way off.
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It s almost like the opposite of control.
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So now you feel pressure to sell and to pitch and convince.
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Absolutely.
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And now you re going to be a little less truthful because now it s like you re walking on eggshells through the process.
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So the technique here is get damn good
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and skilled at finding out what s the presenting pain, what s the reason they even invited me in the first place, that will lead to you being more assertive.
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Done.
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Mic drop.
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Done.
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Out of here.
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See ya.
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It s been real.
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This mic doesn t even drop.
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OK, that s it.
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Start the music.
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That s really, really good.
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I love this idea, too, that we should formulate or, I guess, expand upon for the listeners, which is the triggers.
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We didn t really prepare for that because we do a limited amount of preparation on purpose around here.
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And it s a good thing to identify the triggers.
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That s another good assessment thing.
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We re like surgeons.
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We do very little preparation.
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Very little preparation.
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We just kind of come in, slice them open, tool around up there, drop the scalpel, go out, get into our Porsche.
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That s what I want in a good surgeon.
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Driving a good 928.
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So let s get into some... So, Mr. Kasky, I ve worked for 40 years in this profession and every night I study my patients.
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Do you have somebody else here can help me?
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I m not comfortable with that.
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He s in the books too much.
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It is funny, though, how like surgeons and things like that.
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Do you ever fact check them?
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You never look up to see if they actually do have the degree that s hanging on the wall, or if they actually do know what they re doing.
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SPEAKER_01
No one ever does that, do they?
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SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
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SPEAKER_00
We see the degree.
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SPEAKER_00
No, yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
The question is, really.
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Totally.
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SPEAKER_00
Like, is this guy good?
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SPEAKER_01
Can I buy those?
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
And it s funny, too.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, every surgeon, you had some patient had to be the guy s first one, right?
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SPEAKER_01
How many babies you delivered, Doc?
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SPEAKER_01
This is it.
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SPEAKER_01
First one.
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SPEAKER_00
First one right here.
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SPEAKER_00
Hope it goes well.
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SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
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SPEAKER_00
What about you?
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I plan on doing 10,000, but this is the first.
1
SPEAKER_01
OK, so here s a very, very tactical, both a symptom that you might have passivitis and something to do.
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And this is an old Bill Kasky trick.
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Phone over email, phone over email, phone over email.
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And how many times when you re coaching a client nowadays, Bill, and I see this, this is what triggered this, this whole topic for me,
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SPEAKER_01
Tell me about the contact flow.
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What and how much and how often, what kind, that sort of thing.
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SPEAKER_01
I emailed them.
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SPEAKER_01
I didn t hear back.
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SPEAKER_01
I emailed them again.
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SPEAKER_01
I didn t hear back.
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SPEAKER_01
I emailed them.
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SPEAKER_01
OK?
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SPEAKER_01
We got to get past this email thing.
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I would also now add phone is greater than email.
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And I m going to put that texting is as good and sometimes better than the phone to push and drive a thing forward.
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OK?
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So everyone listening, I m giving you permission on the texting thing for one, and encouragement, and two,
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You got to pick up a phone and call people and get into dialogue with them.
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You can t do deals via email these days.
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And I ve changed my tune on that, by the way.
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I used to think differently.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, this is a great topic.
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SPEAKER_01
I know.
1
SPEAKER_01
This is a great topic.
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SPEAKER_01
I know.
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SPEAKER_00
What is the number one application right now
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in our social media culture.
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SPEAKER_00
The number one application, think about Alexa, think about Echo, it s voice.
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SPEAKER_00
Everything s voice.
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SPEAKER_00
Gary Vaynerchuk talks about that a lot, is that voice is the crazy app.
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SPEAKER_00
Well, you re not getting voice when you send an email.
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SPEAKER_00
So how will you get voice?
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SPEAKER_00
You ll get voice by calling them.
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SPEAKER_00
You can actually record a message and send it via email on your phone if you have an iPhone.
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SPEAKER_00
I think Androids do it too.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you can actually record a well thought out message and then just text them the voice recording.
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SPEAKER_00
But now there s a personality behind it.
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SPEAKER_00
In email, there s no personality.
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SPEAKER_00
And so we re not even talking about interrupting someone s day and saying, hey, I ve just called you.
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I didn t want to email you.
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SPEAKER_00
And the person says, well, I m right in the middle of 17 things.
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SPEAKER_00
Just voicemail them.
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SPEAKER_00
Just voicemail.
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SPEAKER_00
But you don t have to call them to do it.
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SPEAKER_00
You can record a voice memo and put a clever title on it, because that s the only thing they re going to see.
1
SPEAKER_00
And that s another way to do that.
1
SPEAKER_01
So that s good.
1
SPEAKER_01
You re also listening to two fellas who have a book called Email It.
1
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It s available for you to purchase, by the way.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it s a great email book.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it can t stand alone on its own.
1
SPEAKER_01
When we put email together for sales emails, the intention was not to stop calling and talking to people.
1
SPEAKER_01
The intention was to help you be better with that little segment of communication.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think some people have just taken this.
1
SPEAKER_01
And they look for the reasons that validate their position on that.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, he always responds with email or whatever, or it s just easier or quicker.
1
SPEAKER_00
He prefers email.
1
SPEAKER_01
He doesn t even talk to his spouse.
1
SPEAKER_01
No, he doesn t know via email.
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SPEAKER_01
He s like, where would he s he s emailing her.
1
SPEAKER_01
OK, so that s sitting on the couch.
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So that s one of the triggers or that s one of the things that we do.
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you know, mistakenly as we resort to email.
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I ve got one here that s probably more of a mindset, and that is, what is your role in the sales process?
1
SPEAKER_00
And if you think it s to convince them and persuade them and defend your price and do all that stuff and be a voice for good in their life, then I think
1
SPEAKER_00
When things don t go according to plan, it s easy to default back into passive.
1
SPEAKER_00
But the antidote to that is, is it anecdote or antidote?
1
SPEAKER_00
Antidote is like the opposite.
1
SPEAKER_00
Antidote.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s got to be Latin, doesn t it?
1
SPEAKER_00
It s a Latin thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
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SPEAKER_00
It must be.
2
SPEAKER_00
Dote?
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SPEAKER_00
Are you serious?
2
SPEAKER_00
Did you just say that?
2
SPEAKER_00
That would be a D-O-T-E.
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SPEAKER_00
Dote.
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SPEAKER_01
OK, Brian Neely.
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SPEAKER_01
Epler Buzunum.
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Well, the anecdote, Dote, as you might call it, is the story.
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SPEAKER_00
We were talking about Latin with a friend of mine.
2
SPEAKER_00
And he said, I took Latin, too.
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SPEAKER_00
I said, so did I. And he started to say the same first paragraph that I had to memorize my first Latin book, which is Britannia est insula.
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SPEAKER_00
Est ne Britannia parva insula?
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SPEAKER_00
Non parva est magna.
2
SPEAKER_00
See that?
2
SPEAKER_00
So he knew it.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s Latin.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so he and I were talking Latin at the bar.
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SPEAKER_00
That was as far as it went.
2
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
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SPEAKER_00
Britain is an island.
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SPEAKER_01
I don t think Latin is a good speaking.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s not a romantic language, is it?
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SPEAKER_00
I should start a podcast in Latin.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that d be a big hit.
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SPEAKER_01
For all the old Catholic priests still kicking.
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SPEAKER_01
All right, go ahead.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay, mindset.
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Your mindset needs to be, what is your role in the process?
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SPEAKER_01
Your role needs to be one of a guide.
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SPEAKER_01
You need to be the guide that the prospect follows.
2
SPEAKER_01
Why does the guide have followers?
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SPEAKER_01
Because the guide knows where they re going.
2
SPEAKER_01
The guide knows the land, the terrain.
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SPEAKER_01
They know the mistakes.
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SPEAKER_01
They know where the roadblocks, where the monsters are, where the villains are.
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SPEAKER_01
The guide knows everything.
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SPEAKER_01
The guide should be in control.
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SPEAKER_01
If you do not see yourself as a guide,
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you will see yourself as a follower of the prospect.
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SPEAKER_01
So shift your brain, get into guide mode, and then now it s up to you.
2
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You have to control the process.
2
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You don t want your guide on a mountain climb to say, I m lost.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t know where the hell, where do you guys want to go?
2
SPEAKER_01
You want to go down the cliff here?
2
SPEAKER_01
Bear Gillis, what s his name?
2
SPEAKER_01
Bear Gillis?
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SPEAKER_00
I don t know, but I love that guy.
2
SPEAKER_00
He s fun.
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SPEAKER_01
just a shift of mindset might help you, too.
2
SPEAKER_01
Instead of trying to come up with all these clever techniques and one-liners on how do I shift control, just get your mindset right, and everything else will follow.
2
SPEAKER_00
So good, isn t it?
2
SPEAKER_00
OK, that s a power episode right there.
2
SPEAKER_00
Good one.
2
SPEAKER_00
Hey, if you haven t done so already, send us an email, listener at advancedsellingpodcast.com.
2
SPEAKER_00
You can send all sorts of fun things there.
2
SPEAKER_00
You can request us to come visit you.
2
SPEAKER_00
You can send us an audio question.
2
SPEAKER_00
We will dip into the co-video audio mailbag here in a couple of episodes.
2
SPEAKER_00
And we love answering those.
2
SPEAKER_00
situations on the air on the podcast.
2
SPEAKER_00
So listener and advanced selling podcast dot com.
2
SPEAKER_00
Shoot us an email and we appreciate you listening and we ll see you next time on the Advanced Selling Podcast.
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SPEAKER_00
Bye.