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SPEAKER_02
Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.
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SPEAKER_02
I m Dan Shepard.
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I m joined by Lily Padman.
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SPEAKER_00
Good afternoon, sir.
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SPEAKER_02
Oh, how are you?
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SPEAKER_00
I m really good.
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SPEAKER_02
Oh yeah.
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Me too.
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This is a very rare occurrence.
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We re both doing the intro and the fact check in the same four hour chunk that we did the interview.
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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So I m riding fucking high off of this one.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
What a special interview.
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SPEAKER_02
Oh my God.
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SPEAKER_02
Everyone should watch his doc, American symphony.
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I almost feel like if you re unfamiliar with John at all, watch the doc, then listen to this interview.
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Cause you can t imagine how special and creative this human being is that lives on planet earth with us.
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John Batiste.
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Oh my fricking God.
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Just to set the stage, he was nominated in 2022 for 11 Grammys.
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He won five.
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He won Album of the Year.
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That same year he won an Academy Award, a BAFTA, a Grammy, and a Golden Globe.
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SPEAKER_00
Wait, is he a EGOT?
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SPEAKER_02
Nah, I was looking at that.
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That was gonna be one of my questions.
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SPEAKER_02
He needs an Emmy and a Tony.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, we ll get him there.
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SPEAKER_00
So easy.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah, he s fucking your age, for Christ s sakes.
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SPEAKER_00
Bastard.
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SPEAKER_00
I hate that part.
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That was the only bad.
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The only bad thing about John is that he s young.
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I think it s okay, because he s not human.
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That s true, yeah.
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On his planet, where he s from, he s 70.
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Oh, that s comforting.
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Well, he is a Grammy Award winning musician and television personality.
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He s also done so much acting, we didn t even talk about that, but he was in three seasons of Treme, and he s been in two Spike Lee movies.
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The body of creativity is so dense, and we took a long time.
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We did, we went way over.
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Still couldn t get to it.
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We went way over.
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Fun behind the scenes, he had a hard out at 1230, and he left at three.
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SPEAKER_00
No, 1.30.
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1.30?
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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But still, an hour.
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Oopsies.
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Oopsies.
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His albums are World Music Radio.
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That s his new album that s out right now.
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It s incredible.
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You know some of the songs on it, and it s just a beautifully done album.
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We Are is the one that got all the nominations.
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Hollywood Africans, Christmas with John Batiste, social music, and this documentary that we are so high on.
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It s on Netflix.
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It s called American Symphony, and it s a really beautiful and touching, heartbreaking documentary.
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Profound, yeah.
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Please enjoy John Batiste.
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This is gonna depress you.
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SPEAKER_00
Mm-mm.
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SPEAKER_00
What?
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Depress me into knowing he s only six months older than you.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, I already know that.
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SPEAKER_00
You knew that?
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SPEAKER_00
Yes, I know.
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The reason why it doesn t depress me is because you re not from this world.
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You re not human.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that helps.
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The whole ensemble is amazing.
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Thank you.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, my God.
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SPEAKER_00
That s so flattering.
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SPEAKER_00
I do want to say, I know you probably already just said it outside and it s redundant.
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You re probably so sick of hearing it by now, but we ve had a ton of awesome people in this attic, but I don t think we ve had a level of genius like we have today.
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You got to save that to the end.
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I had to say it now because it s so true.
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SPEAKER_03
This is amazing to see what it looks like here.
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Wait, John, have you heard the show before?
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SPEAKER_03
Yes.
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SPEAKER_03
My wife introduced me to the show.
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SPEAKER_02
She did.
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SPEAKER_03
We listened to David Sedaris.
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SPEAKER_03
Ah, sure.
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He s a dream.
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She s a huge fan and got me converted to be a fan of David via this show.
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SPEAKER_00
That s so nice.
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Yeah, he too is from another galaxy, I think.
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The storytelling this man is able to pull off.
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Exactly.
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Yes.
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The things he gets away with.
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Oh my god.
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Right?
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It knocks me out and I can t believe that he s seeing things so differently than everyone else.
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Yes.
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He perceives the same situation that everybody will be in the same room and seeing but he s seeing it from another lens and then is able to communicate that.
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SPEAKER_03
Thank you for that.
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Oh, I m so delighted.
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He s maybe our most frequent guest.
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We ve had him like four times or something.
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I took him for his first motorcycle ride out front.
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He s a very special person we have.
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Oh my gosh.
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And the way that y all have a rapport makes sense.
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It s four times you say it.
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Y all got a vibe.
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SPEAKER_03
Yes, loud, yes.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, loud.
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SPEAKER_00
Loud.
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SPEAKER_03
Oh my God, I love this so much already.
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This is so fun.
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I can t believe that you have created this and have the vision to make space for this and share it with others in the organic way that you have come together.
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And to see that, to understand that vibrational frequency existed between you
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And you could connect those dots in the world to create a space for this and manifest it and share it, build community around it.
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Huge, huge fan.
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And also there s a DNA of the way you have conversations.
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It s kind of lay therapy.
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It s accessible.
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People connect to the heart and the journey, and it s not promotional.
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It s organic.
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Thank you.
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And there are not many places, just when you re on a press junket or you re doing stuff like that, where you can actually talk and be for real.
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And breathe.
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Come on, right?
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SPEAKER_02
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
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SPEAKER_00
Listen, I m gonna make some... So your teeth are so beautiful.
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Did you notice that in the talk?
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The two of you, I want you guys to stand next to each other and just smile.
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You got some good ones in there.
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Oh, no.
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You got it.
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I m telling you, you got it.
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Don t deny it, Monica.
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Thank the stars for it.
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Monica.
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I m gonna make some... Let s do it, let s do it.
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You got some teeth.
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And look at the hue of the brown skin.
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It is as caramel-esque as the skin can be, isn t it?
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Come on.
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Let it shine.
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Mighty but powerful.
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Oh, mighty pow.
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She s mighty powerful.
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Wait, hold on.
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SPEAKER_03
Wait, is she mighty and powerful or mighty and powerful?
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SPEAKER_03
You re not married.
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SPEAKER_00
No.
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Do you want to get married?
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think so.
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SPEAKER_03
Wow.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_03
Okay, I know this is not supposed to be.
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SPEAKER_03
No, we do all kinds of things.
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SPEAKER_02
We started in the driveway.
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I didn t know he was up mood.
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I said, oh my God.
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SPEAKER_00
Is that all right?
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SPEAKER_00
Of course, I m so flattered.
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SPEAKER_03
Man, own it.
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SPEAKER_02
You know, we got a lot of stuff we don t own about ourselves.
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We met John for five seconds and now he and I are already coordinated in the same exact agenda for you.
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SPEAKER_00
I know.
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SPEAKER_00
You guys find me a husband.
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SPEAKER_00
I m happy to have you guys.
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You re a once in a lifetime entity.
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I mean, you re so special in so many ways.
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SPEAKER_02
So what guy will hit the lottery?
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That s the question.
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Why do you feel like you haven t met that person?
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SPEAKER_00
Well, I have so many issues.
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SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
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Brown kid, Georgia, New Orleans.
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And pretty early on, I had some experiences that told me that I was not attractive or worthy and so many things.
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Can I say even worse?
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There was a boy that liked her and she liked the boy and the friends were setting them up.
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And they said, why don t you ask Monica out?
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And he said, I can t.
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Her parents work at Dairy Queen, which is like an Indian stereotype.
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They didn t.
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They didn t.
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One s an engineer, one s a computer programmer, but out.
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He s out.
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He s afraid to fuck with someone whose parents work at Dairy Queen.
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Okay, thank you.
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So she learned really quickly, my ethnicity is going to stand in the way of anyone.
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It s going to prevent anyone from loving me, even if they do love me.
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And now, how do I protect myself from that?
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SPEAKER_02
Well, I m not going to like anyone anymore because I don t want to open myself up to that.
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Or I m only going to like people who definitely can t or won t love me back.
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Probably more can t, like very unavailable.
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Or the captain of the football team, Ben and Matt Damon, in the stratosphere, unobtainable.
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It s like these extremes, and it creates a scenario where it s hard to find that actual compliment.
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SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
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But you re getting there now.
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SPEAKER_00
Well, I m trying.
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SPEAKER_00
I ve been going on some dates.
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I ve really been forcing myself to do it.
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And there is this person, and I probably have to cut this because he ll probably listen.
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Let him have it.
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I m in this space.
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Let s be honest.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, right?
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Let s just lay it all out there.
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SPEAKER_03
Open the kimono.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s right.
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SPEAKER_00
He s so nice and he really likes me.
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And so I am trying hard to not let that be a problem.
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Because when boys do like her, it fucks with the whole... It s like messing up all the programming.
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Because for me, if people like me, something s wrong with them.
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Yeah, it s really an interesting thing you re saying.
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We have so many brilliant women in our lives who haven t found that person.
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And oftentimes they say the same thing.
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If someone loves them and really is just giving them the world, it s difficult.
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It s almost like a concession.
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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Please, I know this is supposed to be the other way, but please just tell me about that because these brilliant women, beautiful in our lives, and they re just not able to find that.
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There s a few options under that umbrella.
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One is like, they don t see it.
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I ve witnessed that a bunch of times where like someone s clearly hitting on Monica.
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We walk away and I m like, that dude was in love with you.
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She s like, well, you re fucking stupid.
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So there s that version.
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Then there s the one she just said, which is, well, if this
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person likes me, there s something wrong with them because I m unworthy of loving.
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There s something broken in them if they re attracted to me, which is the most heartbreaking of all these.
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Yeah, that s rough.
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But we all have a different side of that same die, right?
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So another version of the unworthiness for mine is like, well, I got a show I put on and I definitely think it works.
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You re going to fall in love with me.
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I have the opposite things like you re going to fall in love with me, but we all know this is smoke and mirrors.
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And when it clears and you find out who I am, we re fucked.
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But it s all the same dye of unworthiness, not worth loving, right?
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Yeah.
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Do you feel that that s an extrovert s game where you re creating the show or is it because you re an introvert and you don t feel comfortable sharing up front in that way?
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So you ve created this character.
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That s a good question.
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I created a character at 11 that worked.
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So I stuck with it, which was like, I m punk rock.
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I don t give a fuck.
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Girls were like, this guy s confident.
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I wasn t, but it worked.
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And I m like, Oh, this works.
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I m going to keep at this.
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Who knows what the 11 year old is.
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He s so far gone.
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I don t know what that little boy, when I look at my fifth grade, there s a sweet little boy like Lincoln in that photo.
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And then sixth grade, it s like,
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Let s go see exploited and get wild.
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And then that s just been me now for so long.
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But we definitely need you now.
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Did you jive with women early?
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Have you always been able to chat with gals and get on with them?
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What s amazing is I ve always had close platonic friends who are women from, I remember in elementary school.
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And I always had male friends as well, but I always had at least one
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close woman friend who was probably the only person I had certain conversations with.
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It was like a way for me to also understand the world from another perspective.
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With the guys, we weren t going there.
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Yeah, I was going to ask, do you think it was a refuse from masculinity and maleness?
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It s so funny you phrase it like that.
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I was thinking about that recently and have only just started to be able to articulate that.
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Yeah, because you re not safe when you re a boy to say, I m scared, this person frightens me, or I m nervous about this.
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All that stuff, you can t do it.
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You can t touch it.
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No, you re dead.
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Persona non grata.
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Right.
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You know, I was a kid who really, I didn t talk until I was about 10.
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I was very quiet, very observant of all the folks around me.
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Big family, come from a very, very colorful city in New Orleans.
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In a jazz dynasty.
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It s amazing.
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It s also scary, because everyone is really putting themselves on stage.
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They know themselves.
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You re the youngest.
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You don t know yet.
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You don t feel... Do you have brothers and sisters?
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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SPEAKER_00
Okay.
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And I m the youngest of 30 cousins.
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SPEAKER_00
Whoa.
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All my siblings, all of my uncles and aunts.
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at eight years old in a band with your brothers.
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Yes, it was great, don t get me wrong.
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It just was not the expression that I thought would become my primary mode as a career path.
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I never thought I would be a musician until I was well into my teens, almost 20.
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Even though you were so firmly on the path to become one, you still didn t identify with that?
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Really quick, do you think it s because there wasn t enough available air in the room where you grew up?
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You know, it was deep, man.
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I thought about that and it wasn t so much that, it was more the thing that we were talking about, Monica, as far as seeing yourself and if someone s hitting on you.
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You don t see the situation you re in.
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We don t see who we are or where we are in time.
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And time is moving.
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There s a real momentum.
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Things are happening.
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Things are falling into place.
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Things are shifting.
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Decisions are being made.
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And I got to a point where I realized the path that I was on and
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It s a matter then where we all face this question, do we accept it or not?
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Am I understanding you in the way that sometimes you re waiting for life to happen, but it takes a long time to realize, like, it s happening.
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It s happening.
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Yeah.
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You re waiting for it, but P.S.
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it s happening and it s blowing by.
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And you got to recognize like, no, no, it s today.
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Today life s happening.
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Momentum is moving, it s quick.
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Not when you graduate, not when you get hired for this thing, not when you book this gig.
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You were born into this, Baptiste.
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This is who you are.
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Some people are blessed enough from day one, it s set.
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Other people, it s already set, but you just have to find it.
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All are equal.
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But for you, there s a huge force for whatever reason, mammoth mechanics behind this.
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And you have to just decide if you want to accept that or not.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
When did you accept it?
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I started to really see music as a profession when I was in my teens, 17, 18, 19, but I didn t really accept it until I was 24, 25.
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SPEAKER_01
Can I guess at one of the things that might have solidified that?
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Oh my goodness.
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I just want to say, I love this.
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Me too, me too, me too.
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You re a bad cat, man.
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You know, when the who s gather on the Christmas tree and they celebrate Christmas anyways, even though there were no presents and his heart grew three times, like you re making my heart three X. Because I think the most moving thing that you ve done for me is stay human.
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And you re going out in the real world and it s an antidote to the plug in and drop out society we live in.
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And you re going out and you re actually getting to look into the faces of the people who s
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emotions and mood you are adjusting with your output.
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And as an introvert, wow, you haven t been doing that comedically or through overt gab like I was doing.
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So I have to imagine when you re moving through the real world with your band on a subway, on a corner in New York, and you are orchestrating human emotions.
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I have to imagine enough of that.
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And you go, oh, yeah, I got a thing I can do.
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It s so glaring.
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Yeah, I bet.
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It s clarion.
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It hits you.
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It s like, oh, wow.
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And the introvert aspect of things and not really being comfortable with that.
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We started to call that out and say, we have to get our rejection in today.
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We have to throw ourself in the water.
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Let s get rejected today.
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Yeah.
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Whether it s saying hello to somebody on the subway.
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Eventually that turns into play a ballad for this person who looks lonely on the subway.
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Yeah.
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And it becomes this way of shedding this self-consciousness and also realizing, oh, wow, I have something that I can do that is creating community.
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And it s tapping into all of these lineages and these major forces and sound and culture.
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And it s connecting to something that in this time people really, really need.
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And I felt that it was so purpose-driven.
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That s when everything changed for me.
1
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You really nailed it.
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The name Stay Human came to me as the band name, as the mantra, the idea of what we were doing, calling it social music, and understanding, wow, this is something else.
1
SPEAKER_01
Also, I don t want to get too saccharine or sentimental about music, but if there were a day to do it, it would be today.
1
SPEAKER_01
So as a comedian, I go do stand up at Largo.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s community and it s wonderful.
1
SPEAKER_01
They re my folks.
1
SPEAKER_01
They like this kind of comedy.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s heavenly.
1
SPEAKER_01
I went and did it in Vegas.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s miserable.
1
SPEAKER_01
You got a guy from Texas with a cowboy hat next to a Jewish fellow from New York next to a guy from Alaska who just lost $12,000.
1
SPEAKER_01
They re all looking at you like, we re not in the same group.
1
SPEAKER_01
You can t cut through that.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s almost impossible.
1
SPEAKER_01
But music, this is where I would say it s the ultimate superpower because you could drop down anywhere.
1
SPEAKER_01
You could even throw an alien in the mix and you will articulate what can t be articulated.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s the only thing we can all agree on these days.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes, you could put the left and the right in a room.
1
SPEAKER_01
And if you play Coltrane s Alabama, people are going to cry.
1
SPEAKER_02
And even on the most basic level, we can all agree that we re hearing sound together.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_02
We can t even get to a point in the major power centers of this country and the planet, really, where half of one side can agree
1
SPEAKER_02
with half of the other side that something is happening.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s really true.
1
SPEAKER_02
And you can be looking at the same thing, feeling the same thing.
1
SPEAKER_02
But music, it has this power that if you can get people to agree on the fact that we re hearing and experiencing something together at the same time, what you can attach to that experience and what can be carried from that experience to all of these different people s lives, which then ultimately affects the whole, is so profound.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s what Stay Human became a vehicle of, and we would play everywhere.
1
SPEAKER_02
We started playing in the subways just for fun and creating these experiences, but we played on military bases.
1
SPEAKER_02
We ve played for royalty.
1
SPEAKER_02
We ve played in situations where our lives were in danger, and we literally changed the energy in the room so that people didn t know we were shifting their intention.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you hijacked the whole nervous system.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yep, and the anxiety goes away, all the racket inside goes away.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s so magical, it s impossible.
1
SPEAKER_01
It can t be explained.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s this bizarre thing we do as primates.
1
SPEAKER_01
One of the many monkeys on planet Earth made all these instruments, and they re plugging into other people through.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s really wild.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, you say in the doc, which I love, that music is inevitable.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s such a beautiful way of putting it.
1
SPEAKER_00
It was always coming, it was always here.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s in the fabric.
1
SPEAKER_00
of the universe.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s incredible.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s so deep that one of us created these instruments at some point.
1
SPEAKER_02
What drove that?
1
SPEAKER_02
And think about how long ago that came
2
SPEAKER_01
into being that that was a feeling that we need to spend the time to do this and then so many traditions and rituals and ways of expressing that have existed and then maybe in the last millennia it s become something that is a infrastructure and a business and it s commercialized and you know you put it on t-shirts and
2
SPEAKER_01
You could sell a concert ticket, but for millennia before that, many thousands of years, it s been something way, way deeper, an inevitable reality in the realm of the invisible.
2
SPEAKER_01
That is what I want to bridge back to.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because right now, that s what we need in our traditions of music more than ever, is how do we bridge back to that early intention of the music.
2
SPEAKER_02
Well, what s great, I don t say this to insult music, but it serves absolutely no purpose.
2
SPEAKER_02
There s no purpose to it.
2
SPEAKER_02
You do not need it for survival.
2
SPEAKER_02
Of all these things, we needed tools.
2
SPEAKER_02
We figured that out.
2
SPEAKER_02
Even drawing to some degree is a form of communication to inform another generation.
2
SPEAKER_02
This is how you stab the fucking ox.
2
SPEAKER_02
Music has no purpose other than to be in harmony with one another.
2
SPEAKER_00
Except I feel like the original beat is your heartbeat.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s like how you know you re living is through a sound.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s the first sign of life.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so perhaps that s why we re so wired.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
You lay your head on someone s chest and you can hear their heart and you love them and you think, oh my God, that s the thing that s keeping them here.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, it s proven.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ve studied this in great detail because of the way that we re born and 75% of our body as infants is water.
2
SPEAKER_01
And the way that that sound carries the heartbeat of the mother or the lullaby that is sung in your ear when you re a child, all these songs.
2
SPEAKER_02
You re right, you re born into rhythm.
2
SPEAKER_02
You spend your first nine months being formed.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s very loud in there.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh my goodness, it s a symphony.
2
SPEAKER_01
When the music becomes something that is more entertainment based, we lose the thread of that.
2
SPEAKER_01
And as we lose more and more of it, you have these conversations.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it doesn t just affect the creative arts, it affects our investment in engineering, our investment in science.
2
SPEAKER_01
I believe that these kinds of intangible
2
SPEAKER_01
art forms and mediums can solve our issues.
2
SPEAKER_01
No, we have to sit down and we have to talk about policy and we have to have this table full of people who are not artistic, who are not creative in this way, who aren t scientific, who aren t envisioning things that don t exist.
2
SPEAKER_01
Policy is great, we should address that and we should vote and all that, but sitting at the table to discuss solutions for humanity and removing music and art and science, it s unbelievable.
2
SPEAKER_02
I was thinking while researching, you went to the New Orleans Creative... Yes, yes.
2
SPEAKER_02
What was it called?
2
SPEAKER_01
New Orleans Center for the Creative Arts, NOCA.
2
SPEAKER_01
NOCA.
2
SPEAKER_00
Shout out.
2
SPEAKER_01
For NOCA, shout out, baby.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, 504, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
We have interviewed so many people that have attended public creative arts programs.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, again, it s one of those things you could think is an extraneous expense, or it s not vital, people need to learn to add more, whatever.
2
SPEAKER_02
But an inordinate amount of people we end up chatting with are the products of those things.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_02
I do want to step out of the ethereal for half a second and talk about Juilliard.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
Because for the outsider, for Monica and I, like, what do you think of, Monica, when you think of Juilliard?
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I don t know anything about it, but I picture like this picturesque campus, everyone walking around is creative and singing and drawing, and I assume it feels wonderful to be there.
2
SPEAKER_00
However, I ve heard enough stories about Juilliard to know that I don t think that s true.
2
SPEAKER_02
My thought of it is much more like in Rocky IV when the Russian is being trained by the government.
2
SPEAKER_02
He s got all these high tech machines and it s so dialed and everyone s trying so hard.
2
SPEAKER_02
And like having read the 10,000 hours Malcolm Gladwell thing, knowing the fucking repetition, I think more of whiplash.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think of like this pressure cooker, a pursuit of perfection that s relentless and daunting.
2
SPEAKER_02
And then the people that make it have to be so specific.
2
SPEAKER_02
I want to know about that.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like, is there a common thread?
2
SPEAKER_02
Like the amount of time y all spent by yourselves in a room is interesting.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s got to be a freak show in a spectacular way.
2
1%.
2
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes less is accepted in a year.
2
SPEAKER_01
from all across the world.
2
SPEAKER_01
So with all respect, I say this, if you get into Juilliard, you had to be a weirdo.
2
SPEAKER_01
When I say weirdo, I mean, so counterculture.
2
SPEAKER_01
Who s gonna sit in a room from maybe eight years old or before until 17 with a cello, perfecting bow strokes, trying to figure out how to make
2
SPEAKER_01
this tuning or this piece that s impossible to play that no one on the block understands.
2
SPEAKER_01
How to make this work or how to just do the perfect plie and tendu and literally become so competitive with this.
2
SPEAKER_01
that it s what you re thinking about maybe every waking hour of your life for your adolescence.
2
SPEAKER_02
I feel like OCD s a prerequisite.
2
SPEAKER_01
Beyond.
2
SPEAKER_01
Or you re just a natural- You re a phenom.
2
SPEAKER_01
Do those exist?
2
SPEAKER_01
You seem to be one, but do they exist?
2
SPEAKER_01
I believe that there s more people who are phenomenal now because of many factors.
2
SPEAKER_01
The information age, there s so much.
2
SPEAKER_01
Definitely, they exist.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think that Juilliard is a place where people go and find community with other weirdos
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think that that s a beautiful thing.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
I just know this from my uncle.
2
SPEAKER_02
My uncle went to Juilliard, played trumpet.
2
SPEAKER_02
He had outgrown the trumpet instructor in his town.
2
SPEAKER_02
Then they would go to downtown Detroit.
2
SPEAKER_02
Then they had to drive to Ohio.
2
SPEAKER_02
Eventually he outgrew everyone in a three state area and they had
2
SPEAKER_02
to drive to Pennsylvania, you know, like you re getting more and more isolated in a sense.
2
SPEAKER_02
And then you get to this place finally, and everyone else has had the same bonkers experience on planet Earth.
2
SPEAKER_02
So in some way, I would imagine you re seeing like-minded people for the first time.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_02
And that could either be really bonding or also you re very aware too of the competition, which you just mentioned.
2
SPEAKER_02
So that could also be a roadblock.
2
SPEAKER_02
So I m wondering what is the vibe between the student body?
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, it s many different eras of Juilliard.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s the era of competitive razor blades in the piano for the competition.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, that kind of thing, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
And then there s this era, which is the recent era.
2
SPEAKER_01
I really applaud the generation that s coming up now.
2
SPEAKER_01
living through COVID in the lockdown.
2
SPEAKER_01
Although that s a musician s dream.
2
SPEAKER_01
You guys are already in your bedroom the whole fucking summer.
2
SPEAKER_01
But think about your college years though.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s the worst.
2
SPEAKER_01
The most anti-social.
2
SPEAKER_01
You can t perform for people.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s no work.
2
SPEAKER_01
The mental fortitude that they have to stay focused on the craft, to live through that, to come out of that.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s a more communal feeling now.
2
SPEAKER_01
And there was competitiveness
2
SPEAKER_01
for reasons that weren t productive when I was there.
2
SPEAKER_01
As much as I learned, you know, I built a band nest.
2
SPEAKER_01
Stay Human came from friends that I met at school and friends that I still have today.
2
SPEAKER_01
And there s a lot of great mentors that I had in moments that were key for me, but also had moments where it was like, okay, there s competition from people who are supposed to be helping me.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s interference.
2
SPEAKER_01
and a lack of understanding of my approach to art, which doesn t match the pedagogy, maybe doesn t match what is considered to be the right way.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was going to say, were you a threat to tradition?
2
SPEAKER_01
That s what it would be perceived as.
2
SPEAKER_01
But as I grow, I see it more as I m expanding the tradition.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, now they re very happy.
2
SPEAKER_01
I always believed that.
2
SPEAKER_01
As much as I felt I was going against the grain, I always believed it was for a greater purpose and it would be something that would make space for a lot more people.
2
SPEAKER_02
Could we assume that they wanted to insist that you got the perfect classical foundation and then you were free to
2
SPEAKER_02
fly away and create beyond that.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like, let s say Picasso, you got to learn first to draw realism before you can do cubism.
2
SPEAKER_02
But was that maybe their premise, if we re being generous?
2
SPEAKER_01
It was even more of a lack of understanding of my idiosyncrasies and the way that I was as a human being.
2
SPEAKER_01
First off, I was sent within my first year to a psychiatrist.
2
SPEAKER_02
You mentioned that in the doc, and I was like, is that true or is that just kind of like a throwaway?
2
SPEAKER_01
They were worried about your mental health.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
They were like, something is wrong with him or he s on some substance.
2
SPEAKER_01
Sure.
2
SPEAKER_01
What do you think you were doing that made them think of that?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, because you re amidst a lot of people who I would assume are similar to you.
2
SPEAKER_01
And you strike me as very sane.
2
SPEAKER_01
I feel like it s very stiff in environments of the arts most of the time.
2
SPEAKER_01
And people feel self-conscious and nervous.
2
SPEAKER_01
And when I was 17, this is the age of me developing my character, that character that allowed for me to move to the world and have armor.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that character
2
SPEAKER_01
is something that was a protective mechanism and also very, very much a flamboyant outward expression of my joy and exuberance for music and life and wanting to share that with other people, wanting to free other people.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, why are you sitting there stiff?
2
SPEAKER_01
And it also was just a lack of over-reverence for things that people said you re supposed
3
SPEAKER_01
to really buy into and look at as law?
3
SPEAKER_01
Why is that?
3
SPEAKER_01
Hmm.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I love John Coltrane, but I would be in that age and I would say, huh, what about John Coltrane could be better?
3
SPEAKER_00
What about this?
3
SPEAKER_01
What could have been different if he was here today?
3
SPEAKER_01
Or what about Beethoven could be better?
3
SPEAKER_01
Why is that the gold standard?
3
SPEAKER_02
This is a great point, and I would imagine it pertains way more to Juilliard than any other kind of musical tradition, which is, in a weird way, you re expected to accept that the greatest have already been here.
3
SPEAKER_02
That you re in the shadow of all these people, they re on another plane, and the best you could ever do is match them.
3
SPEAKER_02
The best.
3
SPEAKER_01
It can t be done, can t be replicated.
3
SPEAKER_01
And you should just spend all your time trying to just reach the level where at least you can express what they had expressed.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s like an arrested art in a weird way, which is counterintuitive.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and it s not what the world needs.
3
SPEAKER_01
I have so many huge ambitions.
3
SPEAKER_01
I feel like I m just getting started in so many ways.
3
SPEAKER_01
And the expression of the art was like the beginning of me understanding how big the world was, how much stuff was possible, how much we could actually do.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
You knew that so young.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s so impressive.
3
SPEAKER_00
If someone told me to go to the psychiatrist when I was 17 or something, I would be like, something s wrong with me.
3
SPEAKER_00
Did you ever feel like that?
3
SPEAKER_00
Or you were like, no, they re wrong.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Huge anxiety, huge levels of depression, needing a lot of moral support from friends and family.
3
SPEAKER_01
That whole first year was just a doozy, baby.
3
SPEAKER_01
Shut up.
3
SPEAKER_01
We were rolling.
3
SPEAKER_01
I fainted in the subway.
3
SPEAKER_01
I got pneumonia the first couple weeks.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was in New York.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was in the hospital alone, no family in New York.
3
SPEAKER_01
I discovered I had a distant cousin, my cousin Lisa, and then that s how we got connected, because I was in the hospital.
3
SPEAKER_02
Right.
3
SPEAKER_01
From there, I go to school, get sent to the psych office, have a consult.
3
SPEAKER_01
Then he writes a letter to the dean.
3
SPEAKER_01
When the dean gets this letter, I probably could find this letter now, but gets a letter saying, you are mistaken about this young man.
3
SPEAKER_01
In fact, I believe I was in the presence.
3
SPEAKER_01
This is his words, not mine.
3
SPEAKER_01
He said some very glowing things.
3
SPEAKER_01
I want to kiss him on the lips.
3
SPEAKER_01
Me too.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so things like that, moments like, oh wow, this person sees something in me.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was able to achieve this small goal.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I have these friends or family that are helping me to move through this period.
3
SPEAKER_02
I moved to...
3
SPEAKER_02
California at 20.
3
SPEAKER_02
I had so many friends in Detroit and then I land in Santa Barbara.
3
SPEAKER_02
The shit I was doing in Detroit was not working there.
3
SPEAKER_02
I was so lonely.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I had a year where I was questioning my sanity a lot, truly nervous.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like, are we going to have a breakdown?
3
SPEAKER_02
Like, am I crazy?
3
SPEAKER_02
And this is my arrogance side.
3
SPEAKER_02
I m like, do smart people go crazy?
3
SPEAKER_02
trying to explain why I m crazy.
3
SPEAKER_02
And it was linked to the loneliness and the trying to figure out where I m going in the world.
3
SPEAKER_02
But I was very scared I was losing my mind for a year and a half.
3
SPEAKER_01
Did you have those fears?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I want to ask you, too, because you ve found a way to not be pigeonholed.
3
SPEAKER_01
You force people to reassess how they view you.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s a huge, huge element to it.
3
SPEAKER_01
First, you think you re crazy.
3
SPEAKER_01
You think that the way that you re moving through the world and the things that you expect for yourself are just outsized, or maybe everybody else is crazy, which is even worse.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, exactly.
3
SPEAKER_01
All eight billion, y all.
3
SPEAKER_01
Crazy.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m the only sane one.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s the scary world of being.
3
SPEAKER_01
So you get past that, then that s the first entree into maybe achieving something.
3
SPEAKER_01
So then you achieve something, and then people want you to do that thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
Then you say, I m somewhere else now.
3
SPEAKER_01
I want to do something else.
3
SPEAKER_01
And you do that next step.
3
SPEAKER_02
And really quick, I want to ask you, yes, as of you, and I want to ask you, I feel like one of the hurdles of those changes is some interesting pull to not seem ungrateful.
3
SPEAKER_02
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_02
If you liked me in comedies and then I go, well, I m going to take two years off so I can write and direct something.
3
SPEAKER_02
You do feel a bit ungrateful for the folks who supported you doing the original thing you wanted to do.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
And you love them.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_02
And you re truly so grateful for them.
3
SPEAKER_02
But like, if I do something for a while, I m like, okay, we did that.
3
SPEAKER_02
Now what are we going to do?
3
SPEAKER_02
This is a short ass ride.
3
SPEAKER_02
I want to do all the things.
3
SPEAKER_02
So what s next on the docket?
3
SPEAKER_01
But it feels ungrateful.
3
SPEAKER_01
It really does.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m really big on being very self-aware and having gratefulness and humility guide everything.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because if you stop seeing yourself, you stop being yourself.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then you can t create the thing that s the most resonant that only you can create.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I am aware of that for many reasons as a value, but I also feel like that can limit you like crazy.
3
SPEAKER_01
That could make you be like, well, I m gonna just do this because this is my place.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m gonna stay in my place and this is what society want me to be.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I can t do it.
3
SPEAKER_01
It repels me.
3
SPEAKER_00
Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you dare.
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, listen, when you just said, I haven t done what I m going to do yet, I believe that deeply because I think so many artists, they love an art and then they try to do their version of it.
3
SPEAKER_02
And what I see with you, the eclectic nature of what you re doing, world radio, I m going to do this genre.
3
SPEAKER_02
I m going to do this genre, your symphony.
3
SPEAKER_02
I m going to have indigenous stuff.
3
SPEAKER_02
Whereas most people only have kind of the bandwidth to commit to like, I want to be the Beatles.
3
SPEAKER_02
Let s see what my version of it is.
3
SPEAKER_02
You re going, I want to be the Beatles.
3
SPEAKER_02
I also want to be Engelbert Humperdinck.
3
SPEAKER_02
I also want to be so-and-so.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so you re, in my mind, still in the phase where you re doing almost everybody.
3
SPEAKER_02
And even though you are, you have such a fingerprint on everything, we still haven t seen, I don t think yet, you weave it into this whole other thing that someone will try.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_02
Right?
3
SPEAKER_02
Like, you re still knocking off all these genres in this incredibly interesting way, but I think you re tasting everything at the all-you-can-eat bar, and then you re like, now I m gonna go make this dish.
3
SPEAKER_02
And we re not even there yet.
3
SPEAKER_00
Did he nail it?
3
SPEAKER_02
Go ahead, dad.
3
SPEAKER_01
Do you relate to that assessment?
3
SPEAKER_01
I love that.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I relate to that.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it s so true.
3
SPEAKER_01
I feel like the latest bloomer.
3
SPEAKER_01
It is so true to my experience and how I m perceiving my journey.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re still like perfecting your shit.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s crazy from the outside, though, because it s already better and a true gift in a way that no one else is doing.
3
SPEAKER_00
And you re saying you just started.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s so hard for a regular human to wrap their brain around.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I get it.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think that s the difference between people who are just really great at something and then a genius level.
3
SPEAKER_02
where you re going to actually create an entirely new thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
Something brand new.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
But even like we are, the notion that you had a classical composition on there, you did that.
3
SPEAKER_02
Okay, great.
3
SPEAKER_02
I don t know what you took from that.
3
SPEAKER_02
I don t think that was the finished product.
3
SPEAKER_02
I think you were like, okay, that s a piece.
3
SPEAKER_02
I m going to try this thing.
3
SPEAKER_02
I m going to try this thing.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then somehow that s going to be what comes out.
3
SPEAKER_02
Eventually, who knows what the timeline is.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re casting lines out there.
3
SPEAKER_01
This is what came back.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, wow, now I understand this a little bit through doing it.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m huge on the experiential learning and really just like I was talking about getting our rejection in, throwing ourself in the water.
3
SPEAKER_01
Find a way to do the thing and do the thing with stakes.
3
SPEAKER_01
Put skin in the game and then learn from that.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s the best for me process.
3
SPEAKER_02
OK, so I m thinking out loud now, because we have all of our genres pretty well defined for better and worse.
3
SPEAKER_02
And there s no new instruments.
3
SPEAKER_02
There s no new notes.
3
SPEAKER_02
There s no new tempo.
3
SPEAKER_02
All the building blocks are there.
3
SPEAKER_02
I think what s new is the human experience is continuing to evolve, that you and I, two men in modern public stage, will say we had to have female friends because we didn t feel like the whole side of ourselves was being experienced without them.
3
SPEAKER_02
That s a new development.
3
SPEAKER_02
Coltrane s not saying that in an interview, and that s why he s shooting dope as well.
3
SPEAKER_02
So the new thing that s out there for you to grab.
3
SPEAKER_02
is weirdly the evolution that we re experiencing just as a species.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
Music is life is music is life.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it s converged.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that s the thing that I was getting at when I think about the internet age and the information age, the convergence of all this experience that s accelerated the human experience.
3
SPEAKER_01
So now we have all these different conversations and we re processing them at a way that s exponential.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Which then changes the way that we relate to each other and the things we make.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then now, what are we going to make that is of the essence of this time?
3
SPEAKER_01
Musically, it s going to express all of these values and all of this synthesis.
3
SPEAKER_01
All of this stuff is really just found a way to be one.
3
SPEAKER_01
and connect to, you know, the past, of course, but it s really creating the future that we re doing right now.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it s almost like we ve just been scattergun blasted with all these things that seemingly don t have a thread connecting them.
3
SPEAKER_02
I think of like the first time you go to Disneyland or World, you re like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
3
SPEAKER_02
There s so much stuff.
3
SPEAKER_02
What s that?
4
SPEAKER_01
That s about pirates.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s about nymphs that are floating around.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s about it s a small world.
4
SPEAKER_01
And it s so overwhelming.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think that s the stage we re at right now with all of this crazy new technology and information we re getting.
4
SPEAKER_01
We re at the stage where like we just walked into Disney World.
4
SPEAKER_01
We re like, my Lord, this is hard.
4
SPEAKER_01
But over time, you re like, oh, yeah, it s organized this way.
4
SPEAKER_01
You can chill.
4
SPEAKER_01
and kind of make sense of it.
4
SPEAKER_01
But I think we re at that stage where someone needs to help us make sense of all this or figure out what is the through line of all this.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s right.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s so deeply tied to the real spiritual and moral awakening that we re yearning for.
4
SPEAKER_00
Connecting the dots on all of this disparate information and experience.
4
SPEAKER_00
is going to show us the oneness of all of us.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I think music s going to play such a crucial role in the way that physicists no longer speak in English, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
Soon as they get to a level of physics, now math has to speak for them.
4
SPEAKER_01
Right.
4
SPEAKER_01
And when they re telling you about the theory of relativity, they re doing their best to make metaphors out of the math.
4
SPEAKER_01
But the math s actually what says it.
4
SPEAKER_01
And so I think what we re trying to find and express and latch on to, it s not going to exist in words.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s going to exist in math.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then it s going to exist in music, which is this thing that is really a magic trick.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s so crazy because music has to now find its new meaning in society.
4
SPEAKER_00
The expression of those things, the things that can t even be put into words, this sort of
4
SPEAKER_00
language of the invisible realm and the unspoken truths that we re now in need of articulating so that we can move to the next phase.
4
SPEAKER_00
Music needs to shift its purpose so it can serve that ultimate vision.
4
SPEAKER_01
You have a great quote I wrote down.
4
SPEAKER_01
Jazz is really a term that doesn t encompass what it s pointing at.
4
SPEAKER_01
The intellectual breath of black geniuses who were basically denied the credential of being a genius in society because of their skin tone.
4
SPEAKER_01
We always talk about improvisation and it really is one of the only forms of music that exemplifies the American experiment, putting all these different cultures into one country and coexisting and trying to create beautiful music together.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s that.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_01
I got to say there were many moments in the doc that I was really jealous of.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_01
The doc, American symphony.
4
SPEAKER_01
Kristen said in the middle of it, she goes, this is almost too devastating to watch, but in the most complimentary way.
4
SPEAKER_02
But in the way that life is devastating and beautiful and you have to keep going.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s incredible.
4
SPEAKER_01
She wasn t referring to the Sulayka of it all.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s not what she was saying was devastating.
4
SPEAKER_01
What was devastating is this magic that exists that so few people can access.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s so kind of rare in our life.
4
SPEAKER_01
You seem to be, you and Sulayka, seem to be living inside of the bubble of the magic.
4
SPEAKER_01
I had so much envy watching it for many reasons, but one of them being you two seem to live in this just endless bubble of creativity and expression, which is so beautiful.
4
SPEAKER_02
But with stakes, as you just said earlier, I think that s part of perhaps why there s stakes in both of your lives.
4
SPEAKER_01
But even her response, so for people that don t know, your wife had leukemia, was in remission for five years.
4
SPEAKER_01
The timing of this is- 10, right?
4
10.
4
SPEAKER_01
10.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I m so sorry.
4
SPEAKER_01
So she was in remission for 10 years.
4
SPEAKER_01
Also, it s so cute, you guys met at band camp.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_02
I know, it s so cute.
4
SPEAKER_01
That was Monica s favorite part, band camp.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I was like, do you know they met at band camp?
4
SPEAKER_01
But she s in remission for 10 years, and then literally the moment, if we fast forwarded through, it s like Juilliard, then it s Stay Human, it s Netherlands Teaching, it s starting to perform live, it s a couple albums, it s becoming the band leader and composer for The Tonight Show with Stephen Colbert.
4
SPEAKER_01
This whole thing leads up to your album, which gets nominated for eight Grammys.
4
SPEAKER_02
11, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, three for Soul, eight for We Are.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_01
You re on a campaign for the Grammys, you re also composing your first symphony to be at Carnegie Hall, and the leukemia returns.
4
SPEAKER_01
I mean, the evilness of the universe, of the timing, is cruel and unique and... Cosmic.
4
SPEAKER_01
And life.
4
SPEAKER_01
And no wonder your body started speaking back to you.
4
SPEAKER_01
Like I m watching you try to uphold this schedule of going to work on the symphony, then do some press for the Grammys, then fly to the Grammys, then see her in the hospital and do this, then FaceTime with her.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, this is too much for a human to handle.
4
SPEAKER_01
And he mentally is going to keep doing it, but things are going to start cracking as they do.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_00
Life is all one.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s the big lesson that I ve started the process.
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t even want to say I learned it.
4
SPEAKER_00
You just have to keep readdressing it.
4
SPEAKER_00
All of it can change and everything is fair game all the time.
4
SPEAKER_00
Just like the possibilities of our imagination and things that we can change to make the world better or relationships that we can invest in and all the things that we can do to make our environment be beautiful and magical, it can all fall apart.
4
SPEAKER_01
Did you ever in your mind when you were feeling low and dark, did you ever feel like her coming out of her mission was your punishment to flying too close to the sun?
4
SPEAKER_01
Of course.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s a natural thought to feel that one is a cause and effect of the other.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, like God gave me all this, and it s a little too much.
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t deserve this.
4
SPEAKER_01
No one does.
4
SPEAKER_01
No one gets 11.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s preposterous.
4
SPEAKER_00
But see, you can t hold on to that belief.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s toxic.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s like when you don t think that you re beautiful.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
No, it s the same kind of things.
4
SPEAKER_00
We don t see ourselves.
4
SPEAKER_00
We deserve all of it.
4
SPEAKER_00
All of it.
4
SPEAKER_01
But do you not have, I have the voice.
4
SPEAKER_01
Monica has it too.
4
SPEAKER_01
We relate a lot to this.
4
SPEAKER_01
Great example.
4
SPEAKER_01
She s long outgrown auditioning for commercials.
4
SPEAKER_01
She s building a house across the street from us.
4
SPEAKER_01
She s past that.
4
SPEAKER_01
But she had such a hard time letting go of those auditions, because she thought, if I stop doing that stuff, this will get taken from me.
4
SPEAKER_02
Like the world is a give and take.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s like, if you mess with this.
4
SPEAKER_02
You re making deals.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, you re making deals all the time with who knows.
4
SPEAKER_01
With the universe, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, like, OK, if you show you re ungrateful here, then the other thing will go away.
4
SPEAKER_02
I used to have a really big obsession with, if good things happen, something bad will happen.
4
SPEAKER_01
Right, like there s a homeostasis.
4
SPEAKER_02
Which is very wrong.
4
SPEAKER_02
I think that s what you re saying, is like that s something to fix, but it s scary.
4
SPEAKER_01
But I would have fallen into that personally.
4
SPEAKER_00
One thing that dispels that myth, and that s not the same thing as saying the energy you put out in some form doesn t come back to you, theory of relativity.
4
SPEAKER_00
But if you prioritize differently, if you re so focused on forward motion, momentum, healing,
4
SPEAKER_00
If you re so focused on being a vessel and being the voice, the tip of the spear, if you re so focused on that, these other thoughts become trivial.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like it falls away.
4
SPEAKER_00
You re going too fast.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s too much fire around.
4
SPEAKER_00
It just burns off.
4
SPEAKER_00
Because these bodies, man, if you re giving it your all, you only have time for one thing.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then the key is, if you have many things going on, how do I integrate all of it so that it s all still serving that one thing?
4
SPEAKER_01
Would you agree you have to become a master of compartments?
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I was wondering that.
4
SPEAKER_01
And shifting, now we re doing this, now we re doing this, now we re doing that.
4
SPEAKER_00
I said in my mind that I was compartmentalizing until Sulika, my wife, she s a sage, and she said to me,
4
SPEAKER_00
No, John, you re integrating.
4
SPEAKER_00
You found some sort of wild harmony.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s unorthodox harmonic symbiosis.
4
SPEAKER_00
You figured out how to do this.
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, it s real syncopation, actually.
4
SPEAKER_01
No, no, that s not in this beat.
4
SPEAKER_01
Wait.
4
SPEAKER_01
No, it is, like it or not.
4
SPEAKER_00
It is.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s some divine logic to it, and I believe that.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s a hard one.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s why I can t say I fully learned that.
4
SPEAKER_00
You have to really invest in it every step of the way.
4
SPEAKER_01
Okay, so I had a lot of envy.
4
SPEAKER_01
I have to earmark one other thing I want to tell you I was very envious of, but one thing I was not envious of, and this was really consuming me while I watched it.
4
SPEAKER_01
You spend so much time in the hospital with her.
4
SPEAKER_01
By the way, I didn t know the outcome while I was watching.
4
SPEAKER_01
I was terrified.
4
SPEAKER_01
I thought this was going to have a heartbreaking ending.
4
SPEAKER_01
We didn t know the outcome while filming.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s crazy.
4
SPEAKER_01
Right.
4
SPEAKER_01
And there s some moments on the second trip to the hospital after the bone transfusion, I m looking at her and if I were you, I feel like the thing I d be wrestling with is, does she need me to be endlessly hopeful right now?
4
SPEAKER_01
Or does she want me to summarize and give closure to this beautiful experience we had?
4
SPEAKER_01
Because I ll do either, but I just don t know which one to do.
4
SPEAKER_01
I could sit here and tell you, baby, whatever you got to do, if you got to let go, I want you to know this was a miracle and this is a fucking victory.
4
SPEAKER_01
This life we had, I wouldn t know what to do.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I guess it s a male thing.
4
SPEAKER_01
I guess it s an impulse to fix something.
4
SPEAKER_01
But were you at all wrestling with like what she needed?
4
SPEAKER_00
If she wasn t such a superstar, I would be wrestling with it more.
4
SPEAKER_00
Naturally, I wrestled with what to say in any given moment over eight months of not knowing
4
SPEAKER_00
Are we gonna be here together?
4
SPEAKER_00
How do you know what to say ever?
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, exactly.
4
SPEAKER_00
How do you know what to do?
5
SPEAKER_00
ever.
5
SPEAKER_00
But there s a pressure on people who are going through illness to suffer well, and she s shouldered that in the most authentic way possible, that it s a beacon for how to be a caregiver, how to be with her.
5
SPEAKER_00
It becomes like, oh, she is so authentically
5
SPEAKER_00
embracing this situation that it instructs me and I ll see her and sometimes it s a time to cry.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s better if you don t say anything.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s better if we just kind of sit with the weight of the reality.
5
SPEAKER_00
Other times I know that I need a word from you and I m giving you the cue and if you re attentive to that cue you ll know
5
SPEAKER_00
what to say, because it s not even about trying to be some sort of wise person who s encapsulating it all.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s just about being there.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, it s a hard place to be.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Just be there.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s the hardest thing.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, she s a fucking gangster.
5
SPEAKER_00
She has a role on this planet to show us how to live under duress with grace.
5
SPEAKER_00
She really is the person and she has such a way of expressing and creating art.
5
SPEAKER_00
through that, that is another layer.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like it would be one thing if it was just her ability to be an example of this aspect of the human experience and how to be in community in that, how to be alone in that, how to process that, but then to create art.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, she s sitting in there.
5
SPEAKER_01
She can barely keep her eyes open.
5
SPEAKER_01
She s making these paintings that are so beautiful that I can t do on my healthiest day.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s not normal.
5
SPEAKER_00
And as our family,
5
SPEAKER_00
continues to grow.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m so grateful for this chronicle, having this chapter documented, and of course, of us making it to this point on the other side of it.
5
SPEAKER_01
When you met her and she was playing stand-up bass, to me, I d be horny as fuck, because that s such a, like, you picked the stand-up bass.
5
SPEAKER_01
Is that part of the appeal?
5
SPEAKER_01
Was that instrument she played?
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, what are you doing over there on the stand-up face?
5
SPEAKER_00
You know, it s like an immediate cue of a certain type of personality.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yes, it s such a good clue.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh, she ll do anything she wants to do.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, that s you?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
It lays out a lot for you.
5
SPEAKER_00
Of course, her first impression of me, because you got to remember this time I m like 14, I m still like weird-ish.
5
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
5
SPEAKER_00
Quiet.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Let s be very honest, John, because you re so successful, it s all working.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I meet you at 7-Eleven and you re penning this.
5
SPEAKER_01
I might have a different.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh, this guy s hanging on by a thread.
5
SPEAKER_01
What s going on?
5
SPEAKER_01
Outside 7-Eleven screaming, yes, Lord.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
What s going on?
5
SPEAKER_00
I think, man, look, that was the other thing.
5
SPEAKER_00
She could see nine times out of 10.
5
SPEAKER_00
People can t see what you re giving them up front.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, that s you.
5
SPEAKER_00
They can t perceive the layers of a person.
5
SPEAKER_00
Or look through all this stuff.
5
SPEAKER_02
Well, she saw your soul.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah, quick.
5
SPEAKER_00
And that was at first like, oh, this is disconcerting.
5
SPEAKER_00
I don t know if I m comfortable with this.
5
SPEAKER_00
I feel very naked.
5
SPEAKER_00
You or her?
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, me.
5
SPEAKER_03
You, okay.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_00
She had this epiphany moment when we reconnected.
5
SPEAKER_00
She was at Juilliard for like her last year of high school.
5
SPEAKER_00
She didn t even graduate from high school, but she was there for the pre-college program.
5
SPEAKER_00
Of course she did.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I was at Juilliard the first year, so like, we re a year apart.
5
SPEAKER_00
And she s in the subway with our friend Michelle.
5
SPEAKER_00
Michelle recounts the story, and so like, remember, she s like, that s John Baptiste.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I was wearing headphones doing some weird dance in the subway.
5
SPEAKER_00
I didn t see her.
5
SPEAKER_00
I didn t see anything.
5
SPEAKER_00
You re in the bubble.
5
SPEAKER_00
This was like a period of time I always wore headphones.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m always in some world.
5
SPEAKER_00
And she goes,
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, that s John Baptiste from the Summer Bandcamp.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m gonna marry him one day.
5
SPEAKER_00
Come on.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, that s what I mean.
5
SPEAKER_02
She has a... She s connected in a different way.
5
SPEAKER_00
She has this kind of way of connecting with what s happening, but it s like premonitions.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s not an obvious thing to say that at that point in time.
5
SPEAKER_00
We don t have, like, years of history.
5
SPEAKER_00
We don t really even know each other like that.
5
SPEAKER_01
Can I also say, I think you re an intimidating person to fall in love with.
5
SPEAKER_01
I said this out loud while I was watching the documentary.
5
SPEAKER_01
I said, he s on such a different planet in a beautiful and wonderful way that if I loved you and was interested in you, I m going to be jealous of that force in your life.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I would feel perhaps that I couldn t ever fully connect with you.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s an intimidating level of creativity.
5
SPEAKER_01
You have given yourself to it.
5
SPEAKER_01
The wind came in, you re like, blow me away.
5
SPEAKER_01
And you have been blowing around.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I think it takes a very confident person to love you and to think that they ll have a role in that.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think a lot of people before her thought that.
5
SPEAKER_00
And not even people who I ve had relationships with, but people who I could tell, they were on the periphery and intrigued and to think,
5
SPEAKER_00
Man, could I be in a relationship with John?
5
SPEAKER_00
And they ultimately decided no.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I can see that now because they see our relationship and they re like, oh, I didn t even know that this was possible.
5
SPEAKER_00
When they see you and Sly guy.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes, it s really interesting.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like some of them are my friends.
5
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it s like, I didn t know that these pieces could fit.
5
SPEAKER_02
Because you already had a love.
5
SPEAKER_02
You re already married to something so profound.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_02
How could you possibly make room for another?
5
SPEAKER_00
And I didn t even know that for a while, because I was so deep in, I didn t realize that I was being perceived like that by potential suitors.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m thinking that as a straight dude watching it.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m like, this guy scares me.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m afraid to love him.
5
SPEAKER_01
I was really thinking that.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m afraid to fall in love with Sulika, too.
5
SPEAKER_02
I m like, I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_02
You guys are such an amazing pair.
5
SPEAKER_01
Can I be a part of that creativity?
5
SPEAKER_00
She s a force and a polymath.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s unbelievable.
5
SPEAKER_00
She absorbs a medium and then just jumps right in.
5
SPEAKER_00
You know, we met, she s playing the bass.
5
SPEAKER_00
She s written books.
5
SPEAKER_00
Best sellers.
5
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
5
SPEAKER_00
And now this painting.
5
SPEAKER_00
obsession that s incredibly productive while she s in the hospital.
5
SPEAKER_00
If she didn t have that relationship with her craft, it couldn t have connected.
5
SPEAKER_00
When I was speaking with Kristen and thinking about you guys, I wanted to ask, immediately just hit me, it s like, oh wow, you guys do this public relationship so well and are beloved.
5
SPEAKER_00
So far.
5
SPEAKER_00
But no, really, for us, this is our first experience and it s a lot.
5
SPEAKER_02
I bet.
5
SPEAKER_00
In a beautiful way, but it s very, very, very exposing.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, something about that vulnerability begets vulnerability, it begets expectation.
5
SPEAKER_00
And we have really, really felt that.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like it s unreal, the kind of response to us as a relationship.
5
SPEAKER_01
This is a great, great, great avenue because you actually touch on it
5
SPEAKER_01
in the doc while you re making it, which is this fame thing is a really peculiar thing.
5
SPEAKER_01
And you seem to have a sense that it is minimally corruptive.
5
SPEAKER_01
It ll change you.
5
SPEAKER_01
What s funny is I think I m ahead of it as I m sure you think you re ahead of it, but then I m also smart enough to know, like, well, there s no way I m ahead of it.
5
SPEAKER_01
Right.
5
SPEAKER_01
I might be doing hopefully the best version of it, but to be arrogant enough to think that it hasn t affected me or changed me is probably insane.
5
SPEAKER_01
Even though I don t think it has, but clearly it has.
5
SPEAKER_01
It has to, it s too much.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s too powerful and abnormal and unique.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so now you add a relationship into that and then that becomes a third member of the relationship.
5
SPEAKER_01
There s a third person in your relationship, in my relationship.
5
SPEAKER_02
third person, there s a world.
5
SPEAKER_00
People have this vision of things that they have to share with us or have to, like, instruct us about.
5
SPEAKER_00
Even this weird thing of people having to almost pit us against each other.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, hey, you know, it s not a competition, but we win either way.
5
SPEAKER_01
Right, right.
5
SPEAKER_01
But by the way, it s the same as you being a musician.
5
SPEAKER_01
You make people feel a certain way.
5
SPEAKER_01
with your musical output.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then when they meet you, there s some expectation that you as a person chatting will give them that same emotion, but you can t chatting, give the emotion your music does.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s why you fucking do the music.
5
SPEAKER_01
Because you re frustrated.
5
SPEAKER_01
Because you re an introvert.
5
SPEAKER_01
So yeah, you can t deliver in person the thing that they fell in love with.
5
SPEAKER_01
So it s a very similar pressure.
5
SPEAKER_01
So your relationship, certainly as portrayed in this documentary, seems very aspirational.
5
SPEAKER_01
Not even aspirational.
5
SPEAKER_02
It feels like of another time and space and planet and so special.
5
SPEAKER_02
And if only there s so much like if only I could have that.
5
SPEAKER_02
Which is beautiful, but if you re out on the street and people are coming up to you two together and they re like crying That must be weird.
5
SPEAKER_02
Like I don t know how to handle this right now.
5
SPEAKER_02
I m a person
6
SPEAKER_00
It s also the merging of that, because the experience of the music and what we ve done there and the experience of what she s built, that coming together is super intense.
6
SPEAKER_00
Individually, as an artist, you want to cultivate that sort of intensity with folks, because that s what s going to feed people the most.
6
SPEAKER_00
But then in person,
6
SPEAKER_00
It s a difficult thing to understand when you re protecting your family and you re protecting what is sacred for you and what helps you to replenish and thrive and then be able to deliver.
6
SPEAKER_00
How do I continue to service this community that we love, but also
6
SPEAKER_02
Keep some stuff for yourself.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, because it s only one of each of us.
6
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, exactly.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s why I was like, man.
6
SPEAKER_01
Let s be honest.
6
SPEAKER_01
We both want it both ways.
6
SPEAKER_01
So you do want to.
6
SPEAKER_01
model and share as you did.
6
SPEAKER_01
And it s beautiful.
6
SPEAKER_01
And people hopefully feel very moved like we did.
6
SPEAKER_01
And then you want to go to a different planet where you live on as a normal person.
6
SPEAKER_01
Because when Chris and I are in a restaurant and we re pissed at each other, it fucking happens all the time.
6
SPEAKER_01
We go to New York and say, where do you want to eat?
6
SPEAKER_01
No, I want to eat here.
6
SPEAKER_01
We ate there last time.
6
SPEAKER_01
Fuck it.
6
SPEAKER_01
Fine.
6
SPEAKER_01
We ll go to your place.
6
SPEAKER_01
And then they see us and like, we re both on our phone at a table.
6
SPEAKER_01
And they re like, no, no, no, no.
6
SPEAKER_01
You re supposed to give me this warm, fuzzy feeling.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I m nervous you guys are getting divorced.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s the element.
6
SPEAKER_01
How do you deal with that?
6
SPEAKER_01
Well, how we have chosen to deal with it thus far is to try at every turn to be super honest about, well, we re in couples therapy and we don t get along.
6
SPEAKER_01
And COVID was almost career ending for us.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s just going, I m happy to share the fun.
6
SPEAKER_01
posts where I get her a sloth, but also know it s a beat down and we hate each other sometimes.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s all happening.
6
SPEAKER_01
So I feel like the only antidote is just, if you re going to be transparent on one end of it, then you re almost obligated to be transparent across the board.
6
SPEAKER_01
Or now it is a product.
6
SPEAKER_01
Now it is curated.
6
SPEAKER_01
Now it is inauthentic.
6
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
6
SPEAKER_01
So to me, the antidote is letting the other shit be known as well.
6
SPEAKER_01
We ve always said this.
6
SPEAKER_01
We re flattered by this hashtag relationship goals.
6
SPEAKER_01
But do not fool yourself.
6
SPEAKER_01
You re not going to meet your Kristen.
6
SPEAKER_01
Life s going to be easy.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s a fucking job.
6
SPEAKER_01
Just like your music s a job.
6
SPEAKER_01
You work your fucking ass off.
6
SPEAKER_01
It kills you.
6
SPEAKER_01
The symphony almost killed you.
6
SPEAKER_01
And the relationship s almost going to kill you.
6
SPEAKER_01
But there ll be an opening night and you ll go, fuck, that s why I did it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yes, the truth is the anecdote.
6
SPEAKER_00
The investment breeds these moments of just transcendent glory.
6
SPEAKER_00
You give it all and you make it to those.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
And you re just hoping to go from like little hill you climb to the next little hill, but most of it s a valley.
6
SPEAKER_00
Do you feel an obligation to continue to be transparent or is there a moment where you feel like, okay, we did it.
6
SPEAKER_00
We ve given a great example.
6
SPEAKER_00
Now it s time for us to retreat.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yep.
6
SPEAKER_01
We are 16 years down the road of this.
6
SPEAKER_01
You are,
6
SPEAKER_01
I don t know what year you re on?
6
SPEAKER_01
Two.
6
SPEAKER_01
So there was a moment where, you know, I knocked a paparazzi down and I was freaked and I fucking hated it.
6
SPEAKER_01
We wouldn t go anywhere.
6
SPEAKER_01
There s definitely a whole ride.
6
SPEAKER_01
For me, there becomes a moment of acceptance, which is like.
6
SPEAKER_01
You re not going to change the world, get realistic, learn to live life on life s terms.
6
SPEAKER_01
It involves this, you got to get at peace with it or it s going to kill you.
6
SPEAKER_01
And then you go like, oh yeah, none of it matters.
6
SPEAKER_01
If they know my kid s name, there were years where I didn t want anyone to know my kid s name.
6
SPEAKER_01
Now they know everything s okay.
6
SPEAKER_01
For me, it s been just a process of accepting it and learning to be fine with it.
6
SPEAKER_01
And no, I don t think there ll ever be a moment we retreat.
6
SPEAKER_01
other than if we just go retire and there s no way you would see us, but I m at peace with it now.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s totally fine.
6
SPEAKER_01
Other than, and I ve talked about this on here a bunch, the pressure of the third identity, which is us together, that s very present.
6
SPEAKER_01
To be trying to service this third fictitious identity can get a little tricky.
6
SPEAKER_00
And as far as balance,
6
SPEAKER_00
There s got to be times where you don t feel like being on and she does or vice versa.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s a deep thing.
6
SPEAKER_00
And with us in particular, I m thinking about I m always so protective of Sulika and preserving her energy.
6
SPEAKER_00
But even we go places and you have like TMZ, it s not even planned.
6
SPEAKER_00
So it s those moments more so where you re somewhere and then all of a sudden
6
SPEAKER_00
you re bum-rushed, and there s a conversation that someone wants to have, and I m like, no.
6
SPEAKER_00
And she s so generous.
6
SPEAKER_01
Well, she s in a very unique situation, which is people are going to see American Symphony, it s going to remind them of their loved one who went through that, or maybe they went through that.
6
SPEAKER_01
So the people that approach her are going to come at her with a level of emotion that she will have to service, and it s taxing.
6
SPEAKER_02
She doesn t have to.
6
SPEAKER_01
She doesn t have to.
6
SPEAKER_01
I really do want to be clear about that.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s what I m always saying.
6
SPEAKER_02
She doesn t have to do it.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m coming to a solution though, I think, maybe.
6
SPEAKER_01
And it goes for us too, which I like, I cherish.
6
SPEAKER_01
If you like this show, it s because you ve been through some shit.
6
SPEAKER_01
Maybe you re an addict.
6
SPEAKER_01
You know how many people I meet that are fans of this show that they re on like month three of sobriety?
6
SPEAKER_01
And I know what that s like, and it s heavy.
6
SPEAKER_01
We were at our friend, Matt and Laura s wedding.
6
SPEAKER_01
There s another wedding going on at the same place.
6
SPEAKER_01
This dude pulls me aside and he goes, I m only at this wedding because I listened to your show and I got sober.
6
SPEAKER_01
My brother would have never had me here and I m the best man.
6
SPEAKER_01
He started crying and then I started crying.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s like, yeah, I m going to walk through the world and I m going to be at a wedding happy day, but I m going to start crying with this dude.
6
SPEAKER_01
I got to learn to love that and be grateful for that.
6
SPEAKER_01
But maybe a tool that helps me a lot is it s all about expectations.
6
SPEAKER_01
So yes, it s when you didn t expect TMZ to be there and you feel fucking bum rushed and you were expecting another thing and that thing happened and now you didn t have a game plan for that.
6
SPEAKER_01
You feel powerless.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s very hard for me.
6
SPEAKER_01
So I have to be really good about where are we going?
6
SPEAKER_01
What should I expect?
6
SPEAKER_01
When we go out and fly out of an airport, I m going to talk to a lot of people.
6
SPEAKER_01
People are going to try to take pictures of my kids.
6
SPEAKER_01
I don t like that.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s all coming.
6
SPEAKER_01
And just admitting to myself that s coming helps me a lot.
6
SPEAKER_01
When we think we re going to go to a beach,
6
SPEAKER_01
that s in the middle of nowhere, and there s three for talk.
6
SPEAKER_01
Now that s unexpected, and I hate unexpected, and I had expectations, and the expectations are not coming true.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s the discomfort for me.
6
SPEAKER_01
So the better I can get my expectations right, the easier it is.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yes, you almost have to move through situations and know, oh, if this happens,
6
SPEAKER_00
Okay, I know where I m going to shift to.
6
SPEAKER_00
And guess what?
6
SPEAKER_00
It s going to happen.
6
SPEAKER_01
It will happen at one point.
6
SPEAKER_01
So then when it doesn t happen, you re delighted because your expectation was I was going to have to deal with this.
6
SPEAKER_01
And then when it does happen, you re a genius and clairvoyant and you predicted this.
6
SPEAKER_01
So at least you feel like you have power because you already knew about it.
6
SPEAKER_01
Oh man, this is great.
6
SPEAKER_02
I m rude to people.
6
SPEAKER_02
I know you feel like you can t.
6
SPEAKER_00
I understand the sense.
6
SPEAKER_02
I can t touch it.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m sorry.
6
SPEAKER_02
Listen, to you it will feel rude, but it s actually just putting up a boundary.
6
SPEAKER_02
And it s just like, we actually can t talk today.
6
SPEAKER_02
I m so grateful for you.
6
SPEAKER_02
And we re having alone time right now.
6
SPEAKER_02
You have to practice it.
6
SPEAKER_02
It will save you, though.
6
SPEAKER_02
Because if you re just giving and giving and giving, you ll run out.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s a lot what you just said.
6
SPEAKER_00
Even that made me get anxious.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m like, I haven t said it to the people.
6
SPEAKER_00
I know.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then you get to the point where you re driven to do something like that and set a boundary sometimes.
6
SPEAKER_00
And you feel so outside of yourself, like, oh, no, I m thinking about it for a month.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_02
Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.
6
SPEAKER_02
That s my expectation.
6
SPEAKER_02
You know you re not.
6
SPEAKER_01
And your friends know you re not.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m just like trying to.
6
SPEAKER_01
No one that knows you would say that.
6
SPEAKER_01
And that s really important.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I think you have to go like, yeah, I m going to have to be okay with the fact that some people will not have the interaction they wanted.
6
SPEAKER_01
And they ll tell everyone they know that I was an asshole and I ll still be alive and I ll still be able to do all the things I want.
6
SPEAKER_01
You know, like you do have to accept that some people, I was just thinking the other day I was in some crazy situation.
6
SPEAKER_01
Oh,
6
SPEAKER_01
We were in Vegas for the Formula One race.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
And Robbie was like, let s go eat at this restaurant.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m going, great.
6
SPEAKER_01
How far is it?
6
SPEAKER_01
He s like, it s 15 minutes.
6
SPEAKER_01
Great.
6
SPEAKER_01
Cut to an hour and five minutes later, we have been walking as fast as we can through Vegas, zipping in and out of people going up and down staircases.
6
SPEAKER_01
Right.
6
SPEAKER_01
I saw a look on someone s face that was so excited to see me, but I was on hour and five minutes of this walk, considering just taking a cab to the airport and flying home.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s where I was at mentally.
6
SPEAKER_01
I was like, oh, this poor person, they re getting to me on an hour and a half walk to dinner.
6
SPEAKER_00
But that exists.
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh, man.
6
SPEAKER_00
See, that s the thing.
6
SPEAKER_00
When you run into people, they re expecting 100 percent.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I ve had to
7
SPEAKER_01
tendency to just always want to give it.
7
SPEAKER_01
Now we re together, I want to protect Zulaiqa.
7
SPEAKER_01
So then it s also like that.
7
SPEAKER_03
That gets easier, right?
7
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
7
SPEAKER_03
It s probably easier for you to draw a boundary if it s for her.
7
SPEAKER_03
Exactly.
7
SPEAKER_03
So lean on that.
7
SPEAKER_00
You re a bad man.
7
SPEAKER_03
You re a nasty man.
7
SPEAKER_03
Oh my God.
7
SPEAKER_03
I kind of want to tickle John.
7
SPEAKER_00
I feel like y all created this.
7
SPEAKER_00
Y all created this thing to have this real conversation.
7
SPEAKER_03
There s a moment in the doc
7
SPEAKER_04
Oh, I know what you re about to say.
7
SPEAKER_03
You seem so fucking graceful about it.
7
SPEAKER_04
I almost threw the remote.
7
SPEAKER_03
I wanted to go to that airport and find the person.
7
SPEAKER_04
The shoeshine.
7
SPEAKER_03
The shoeshine.
7
SPEAKER_04
Oh my gosh.
7
SPEAKER_03
So let s tell people.
7
SPEAKER_04
I was just about to say that too.
7
SPEAKER_03
You walk up to get a shoeshine.
7
SPEAKER_03
He explains to you somehow he doesn t have the correct products to shine your shoes.
7
SPEAKER_03
And then people start recognizing you.
7
SPEAKER_03
Then he notices you re on the fucking cover of the newspaper.
7
SPEAKER_02
This all happens real time.
7
SPEAKER_02
It s insane.
7
SPEAKER_02
And then he remembers he has a special polish that will work for your shoes.
7
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, that s just people.
7
SPEAKER_04
But John, how do you... It s not okay to live in a world where that s happening.
7
SPEAKER_03
I can t handle it.
7
SPEAKER_03
We re watching Couples Therapy, this amazing show.
7
SPEAKER_03
You watch it?
7
SPEAKER_03
Oh, for sure.
7
SPEAKER_03
So the tall black dude who s so awesome.
7
SPEAKER_03
I love him so much.
7
SPEAKER_03
The tall black dude who s with the Puerto Rican woman.
7
SPEAKER_03
He s letting us in on some stuff, which like, you know, intellectually, but to hear him say, she s like, why don t you kind of stand up for yourself more?
7
SPEAKER_03
Why aren t you more?
7
SPEAKER_03
He s like.
7
SPEAKER_03
Hon, I am a very large black man.
7
SPEAKER_03
I don t have the luxury of being aggressive or outspoken.
7
SPEAKER_03
Things can go in a direction.
7
SPEAKER_03
I have to cross the street so I don t scare people.
7
SPEAKER_03
And I was like, oh my God, that hit me.
7
SPEAKER_03
When this racism conversation comes up, it s always positioned as just like, will they get this job?
7
SPEAKER_03
Will you get into the school?
7
SPEAKER_03
Will you make this money?
7
SPEAKER_03
No, no.
7
SPEAKER_03
It s fucking walking down the street.
7
SPEAKER_03
It s not being able to advocate for yourself.
7
SPEAKER_03
It s all day, all the time, not at work.
7
SPEAKER_03
It s everywhere.
7
SPEAKER_03
And we keep thinking if we get these metrics right, if we had, let s say black folks are 16% of the population and they occupied 16% of CEO roles, boom.
7
SPEAKER_03
No.
7
SPEAKER_03
Get the numbers on the page.
7
SPEAKER_02
That s not.
7
SPEAKER_03
the beatdown of the experience.
7
SPEAKER_03
You trying to get a fucking shoeshine is the beatdown.
7
SPEAKER_02
I mean, you re holding five Grammys and you can t get a shoeshine?
7
SPEAKER_02
That s reality in 2022.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yes, yes.
7
SPEAKER_01
I have experienced this, speaking of being in the public and perception.
7
SPEAKER_01
So even before I had noticed, when I first started working in TV and I would wear the thing that I m seeing on television, some version of that in public.
7
SPEAKER_01
People treat you
7
SPEAKER_01
in this way.
7
SPEAKER_01
I go out, go to a restaurant that I frequent with a friend of mine.
7
SPEAKER_01
This time, it s not after work.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m wearing a hoodie.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m covered.
7
SPEAKER_01
You can still see I m a black man.
7
SPEAKER_01
This guy, who is the most effervescent, friendly person to me all these other times, he s like, hey, you can t be here.
7
SPEAKER_01
You can t wear a hoodie in here.
7
SPEAKER_01
What?
7
SPEAKER_01
So I m like, oh, excuse me.
7
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
Another moment happened to me where I m coming home before I m so known.
7
SPEAKER_01
This is about 15 years ago in New York.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m living uptown.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m walking down to my apartment.
7
SPEAKER_01
We re in Washington Heights.
7
SPEAKER_01
We go through an alley to get to this place.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s a shortcut.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s about 3 a.m.
7
SPEAKER_01
There s a woman there.
7
SPEAKER_01
We re walking through.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m wearing a tuxedo.
7
SPEAKER_01
She turns around, she sees me.
7
SPEAKER_01
She keeps walking faster.
7
SPEAKER_01
She turns around again, and I m like, oh, she must have said hello.
7
SPEAKER_01
I wave.
7
SPEAKER_01
She runs.
7
SPEAKER_01
Full speed.
7
SPEAKER_01
She s thinking.
7
SPEAKER_01
for whatever reason, that she should be afraid of me.
7
SPEAKER_01
She s seeing a black man in an alley.
7
SPEAKER_01
Forget that he s wearing a tuxedo.
7
SPEAKER_01
So that s a deep part of our psychosis.
7
SPEAKER_01
We re programmed in a certain way to perceive race, gender.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s a certain perception for each category.
7
SPEAKER_03
a white person can actually understand what it s like to look at a human, not human, to get scared.
7
SPEAKER_01
It was deep.
7
SPEAKER_01
It was a real lesson for me.
7
SPEAKER_01
And not that I didn t understand it before that, because I really did, but it was just such a perfect microcosm of the reality.
7
SPEAKER_01
Encapsulated the whole experience.
7
SPEAKER_01
Oh wow.
7
SPEAKER_01
You can t even do enough.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m in a tux going to my house.
7
SPEAKER_01
We probably live in the same building.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
And this person sees me and I m waving and even thought that I needed to comfort this person.
7
SPEAKER_01
Why do I need to make you feel safe?
7
SPEAKER_00
I m in my neighborhood.
7
SPEAKER_01
Who are you?
7
SPEAKER_01
There s such a deep and you see it in programs on television.
7
SPEAKER_01
We re producing a lot of stuff now and thinking about images of black people
7
SPEAKER_01
who aren t perfect.
7
SPEAKER_01
nuanced images of black people in media, nuanced images of people of color in media.
7
SPEAKER_01
Think about how limited it is and how much there s this desire to create a surface level diversity.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s like swirlconomics.
7
SPEAKER_01
We can just mix things and present the image of it.
7
SPEAKER_01
And we know that people will buy into it because it sweeps under the rug the bigger issues that you re talking about.
7
SPEAKER_01
The nuance that actually needs to be addressed and understood
7
SPEAKER_01
so that people can actually then move it forward.
7
SPEAKER_01
So not just on the page.
7
SPEAKER_03
Well, let s think of our most primitive desire, which is the people will love us.
7
SPEAKER_03
What is the opposite of people loving us?
7
SPEAKER_03
people being terrified of us.
7
SPEAKER_03
It s the opposite of what every human would want.
7
SPEAKER_01
You re out of community then.
7
SPEAKER_01
You re a castaway.
7
SPEAKER_04
It s the, I can t love you because.
7
SPEAKER_04
I can t love you because you re brown.
7
SPEAKER_04
There s nothing I can do.
7
SPEAKER_03
What are we going to do about this?
7
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, I can t.
7
SPEAKER_04
And it s the same.
7
SPEAKER_04
It s, I feel I m not worthy.
7
SPEAKER_04
You feel like I m not safe to be around.
7
SPEAKER_01
This is why the reaction when stuff like what, you know, Trayvon Martin, Sandra Bland, all these moments.
7
SPEAKER_01
You know, we were out marching in Brooklyn, thousands of us.
7
SPEAKER_01
I was leading marches.
7
SPEAKER_01
The feeling is so ubiquitous.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s hard to even articulate.
7
SPEAKER_01
Is it a protest or is it just an affirmation of humanity or is it...
7
SPEAKER_01
all of the above, and there s so much to be said.
7
SPEAKER_01
How do you even express, as someone who studied the civil rights movements and the effectiveness of them, and you know, you talk about the way that things were organized and the level of depth of study and philosophy that was put into it and understanding of policy and the connecting of so many dots that our greatest leaders did.
7
SPEAKER_01
And the criticism is, well, you know, in the modern era,
7
SPEAKER_01
People don t know what the end game is.
7
SPEAKER_01
People don t have a vision of how to protest or how to connect those dots.
7
SPEAKER_03
You re right, because in the 60s, there were actual laws to be attacked that could be seen as the finish line.
7
SPEAKER_03
And now the finish line is a little bit opaque.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s because of things that are so systematically
7
SPEAKER_01
built.
7
SPEAKER_01
So how do you address something collectively that s really, really insidious?
7
SPEAKER_01
And in general, I believe in people expressing their humanity.
7
SPEAKER_03
This guy speaking on couples therapy, the gift he gave me and everyone that watched it, oh man, this dude can t be himself.
7
SPEAKER_03
That s his experience on planet Earth.
7
SPEAKER_03
He was unable to be himself because it was too dangerous.
7
SPEAKER_01
How do you express your humanity when there are things put in place to take it away, that are invisible, that sometimes you re not even aware of?
7
SPEAKER_01
And that goes for all of us.
7
SPEAKER_01
There s an assault on humanity through our political systems, through our worship of capitalism, and
7
SPEAKER_01
the chief value of our whole culture being driven towards monetization.
7
SPEAKER_01
This is why images that we re seeing in media or discussions that we re having around how to change things are impossible because at the root... Well, that s why I would argue it has to be led by art because the legislation can t do it.
7
SPEAKER_03
Exactly.
7
SPEAKER_03
They could pass any law they d want.
7
SPEAKER_03
It s not gonna make
7
SPEAKER_03
that woman not afraid in the alley, regardless of what laws on the books.
7
SPEAKER_03
Something much more penetrative has to happen, and I think that s where art is quintessential.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, how do we purify this?
7
SPEAKER_01
How do we see each other again?
7
SPEAKER_03
Think about that movie, Philadelphia, right?
7
SPEAKER_03
Oh yes!
7
SPEAKER_03
How much that changed the landscape.
7
SPEAKER_03
To see this man we all feel safe with, Tom Hanks, go through this thing and just observe his story.
7
SPEAKER_03
They re not telling you you have to do anything.
7
SPEAKER_03
They re just asking you to watch the experience.
7
SPEAKER_03
And then lo and behold, what happens in the wake of it?
7
SPEAKER_01
I map the progression of things by sitcoms that I love.
7
SPEAKER_01
And so funny, you say Philadelphia.
7
SPEAKER_01
When you said that, it made me think about what I watched growing up.
7
SPEAKER_01
I ve watched Dick Van Dyke Show.
7
SPEAKER_01
Oh, okay.
7
SPEAKER_01
And then I watched Mary Tyler Moore.
7
SPEAKER_01
My favorite show is probably Taxi, Andy Kaufman, Lotka, that character.
7
SPEAKER_03
21 gigawatts, what s his name?
8
SPEAKER_02
How great was he in fucking taxi?
8
SPEAKER_02
Do you remember the episode where Jim, I think, was his name on the character?
8
SPEAKER_01
Jim who plays in Back to the Future, Doc Brown, but Jim is a cabbie.
8
SPEAKER_02
And he has to pass his driving test, but he can t.
8
SPEAKER_02
Do you know this episode?
8
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
8
SPEAKER_02
And he brings two people from his cab company to help him cheat.
8
SPEAKER_02
And he goes, what do you do at a yellow light?
8
SPEAKER_02
And they go, slow down.
8
SPEAKER_02
What do
8
SPEAKER_02
He just keeps saying it slower and slower.
8
SPEAKER_02
Andy s going, what?
8
SPEAKER_02
Great episode.
8
SPEAKER_02
Oh my God.
8
SPEAKER_02
You watch text.
8
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_02
Love it.
8
SPEAKER_02
Love it.
8
SPEAKER_02
But what a theme song too, huh?
8
SPEAKER_02
Oh yeah.
8
SPEAKER_02
Heartbreaking theme song.
8
SPEAKER_00
Bob James.
8
SPEAKER_00
The cab crossing the Brooklyn Bridge.
8
SPEAKER_02
They were like, hey, will you score this sitcom?
8
SPEAKER_02
He came in there like, you re way off base, but we re gonna go with it.
8
SPEAKER_02
It s so good, we don t give a fuck that it doesn t match at all the tone of the show.
8
SPEAKER_01
But it s perfect.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s beautiful.
8
SPEAKER_04
It s so good, this is great.
8
SPEAKER_01
The ideas of those shows and what was acceptable and then you get to like, The Jeffersons and All in the Family.
8
SPEAKER_03
Yes, loved All in the Family.
8
SPEAKER_01
Oh, good times.
8
SPEAKER_01
Even, you ever watch Gerard s show?
8
SPEAKER_01
I like Gerard Carmichael.
8
SPEAKER_01
Love him.
8
SPEAKER_01
We interviewed him in one of my favorite interviews.
8
SPEAKER_01
His decision to make a sitcom in the modern age, to approach it the way he did, guy s brilliant.
8
SPEAKER_01
Even before that, Bill Cosby show, you have to be perfect in order to be black in media and have it be real life.
8
SPEAKER_01
For all of America to love it.
8
SPEAKER_03
To accept it.
8
SPEAKER_01
But then now look at Atlanta.
8
SPEAKER_01
And then you re like, Donald Glover.
8
SPEAKER_02
Atlanta should be the Cosby show.
8
SPEAKER_02
That s what s infuriating.
8
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_02
You know what I m saying?
8
SPEAKER_02
That should be the most ubiquitous.
8
SPEAKER_02
That shows number one for me.
8
SPEAKER_02
It s like a new language.
8
SPEAKER_02
And it s all sides of him.
8
SPEAKER_02
And that s the essence of the age we re in.
8
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
8
SPEAKER_02
This is kind of what we re talking about.
8
SPEAKER_02
It s like, I m going to give you all of it.
8
SPEAKER_02
I m going to give you some really funny stuff.
8
SPEAKER_02
I m going to give you some poignant stuff.
8
SPEAKER_02
I m going to give you some heartbreaking stuff.
8
SPEAKER_02
I m going to give you a black and white episode where he s in the basement of Michael Jackson s house, but it s not Michael Jackson, but it is Michael Jackson.
8
SPEAKER_01
I m going to give you everything.
8
SPEAKER_01
It does speak to something about what people are ready to accept in terms of the images and stories and who s represented and how they re represented.
8
SPEAKER_01
There s so much that s left to be done.
8
SPEAKER_02
We re still in the phase of the Chris Rock joke.
8
SPEAKER_02
His neighbor s an average white dentist.
8
SPEAKER_01
Like we re still in the phase where you have to be spectacular.
8
SPEAKER_01
It really is a high bar.
8
SPEAKER_01
That s the thing about what can happen if you show the normal true depiction of a person.
8
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
8
SPEAKER_02
That s the movement right now.
8
SPEAKER_01
Lacking extraordinary even.
8
SPEAKER_02
That s great.
8
SPEAKER_02
We ve had a few different guests on who have said, we want permission to show the full spectrum.
8
SPEAKER_02
So us not being likable, us being likable, like that s really the request.
8
SPEAKER_02
It s not just, I want to be visible.
8
SPEAKER_02
I want to be visible with all aspects of my humanity.
8
SPEAKER_02
I want to be a full human.
8
SPEAKER_03
Well, which is why I say when TMZ is up your ass to say, we re not talking today.
8
SPEAKER_03
We re not talking right now.
8
SPEAKER_03
You re allowed to do that.
8
SPEAKER_03
That s what people do.
8
SPEAKER_03
And I know part of it is being a celebrity and being liked, but part of it I m sure is being black and wanting to be nice and kind and represent.
8
SPEAKER_02
You re representing everyone.
8
SPEAKER_02
Oh yeah.
8
SPEAKER_03
The burden.
8
SPEAKER_02
I ve said this so much, of the many things I wouldn t like, being responsible at all times to represent an entire population of people, I m not up for that.
8
SPEAKER_02
I can barely represent myself on most days.
8
SPEAKER_01
Do you feel like you have anything in your life as a white person that is like that?
8
SPEAKER_01
That you feel representative of the lineage of or the expression of?
8
SPEAKER_02
No, other than maybe an addict.
8
SPEAKER_02
It s about like the only thing I feel this kind of importance that I represent correctly.
8
SPEAKER_01
On the flip, I ve thought about how do I represent, if I m going to represent something larger, either make it be my family or make it be humanity.
8
SPEAKER_01
Because then it allows for a noble expression of the group.
8
SPEAKER_01
And we need allegories.
8
SPEAKER_01
We need figures to aspire to or to at least watch be aspirational.
8
SPEAKER_01
Try to live up to the greatest ideals that have been defined by our greatest minds.
8
SPEAKER_01
So I think it is actually important for us.
8
SPEAKER_01
But when it s thrust upon you in a way that is looking for a fall, that s when the pressure is unhealthy.
8
SPEAKER_01
And that s why I wonder, besides race, is there something that you feel
8
SPEAKER_02
I have the luxury of not.
8
SPEAKER_02
That s the honest truth.
8
SPEAKER_02
If BLM s at its height and I m in an interview, I don t have a responsibility to have an answer.
8
SPEAKER_02
You do.
8
SPEAKER_02
I saw it, it s in the doc.
8
SPEAKER_02
I can feel this guy tiptoeing around wanting you to make the statement that s going to service the thing about what s happening and please now go sum this up for us, make us feel better and safe.
8
SPEAKER_02
That s not on my plate.
8
SPEAKER_02
For Kristen, it s going down a red carpet and we re both going down a red carpet.
8
SPEAKER_02
I m three people ahead of her.
8
SPEAKER_02
Not one person s asked me who s with the kids, but every person asks her, where are the kids?
8
SPEAKER_02
So that s something as a woman.
8
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
When you re a brilliant, successful woman, you re threatening too many.
8
SPEAKER_01
You re pushing against too many things.
8
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
8
SPEAKER_01
You re starting to make me feel uncomfortable.
8
SPEAKER_01
What can I do to take you out?
8
SPEAKER_02
You must be a terrible mom.
8
SPEAKER_02
That ll make me feel better.
8
SPEAKER_02
It s a wild thing.
8
SPEAKER_02
I don t.
8
SPEAKER_02
I m lucky.
8
SPEAKER_01
I mean, the best I can do is just own that.
8
SPEAKER_01
But what about in comedy when you re putting that hat on?
8
SPEAKER_01
For me, I also think about musicians and like, how do I live up to quality is another one of our values and our family.
8
SPEAKER_01
How do you live up to the highest quality in the craft?
8
SPEAKER_01
Do you put that pressure on yourself or do you just say, I m just being Dax and I m doing my thing?
8
SPEAKER_02
I have a commitment to write what I like and then accept whether that appealed to many people or not.
8
SPEAKER_02
This is the only thing I can do.
8
SPEAKER_02
I ve never felt myself going like, I know people like that kind of thing and I m going to try to do that or I could or it s there for the taking.
8
SPEAKER_02
That I haven t done.
8
SPEAKER_01
You know, I really enjoy stepping into that lion s den in another medium.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, because you act a bunch now, or you have.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
8
SPEAKER_01
Being a person who s not viewed, okay, you have to represent the next phase of where this art form is going, and you can just be
8
SPEAKER_01
a practitioner or taking something that s like the early cuts of this film.
8
SPEAKER_01
I m good friends with George Lucas, and I didn t know this was going to happen.
8
SPEAKER_01
He opened the opportunity for this to happen.
8
SPEAKER_01
Matt sent me a cut of the film.
8
SPEAKER_01
This is almost at the end.
8
SPEAKER_01
Matt is incredible.
8
SPEAKER_01
And he doesn t want me to show this film, but I m sitting with George and George is like, I hear you working on this film.
8
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, okay, well, I m going to step into this lines and cause he says, you know, who s coming over today?
8
SPEAKER_01
Francis for Coppola.
8
SPEAKER_01
You re going to get notes from these two and Ron Howard s.
8
SPEAKER_02
And Cecil B. DeMille just exited the grave, and his ghost will be present.
8
SPEAKER_01
He hangs out in the theater and watches films with his friends, and his friends just happen to be these people.
8
SPEAKER_01
And then JR, the great French artist, is there, and he s making a film, and we all are watching each other s films.
8
SPEAKER_01
Oh my lord.
8
SPEAKER_01
And we play the film, and Francis is like, oh, you have a film?
8
SPEAKER_01
I would love to see your film, John, and I ll also play you my film.
8
SPEAKER_01
So we re sitting there, and I m in this lion s den, and literally the film is up there, and it s up against- How scary.
8
SPEAKER_01
Do you understand?
8
SPEAKER_04
Yes, this is insane.
8
SPEAKER_01
Multiple Academy Award winners, like three of the best that ever did it.
8
SPEAKER_01
I prefer that when, you know, I m bringing into another space because hearing their perception from their medium, it informs my music.
8
SPEAKER_02
Okay, great.
8
SPEAKER_02
This was another observation I made about you from American Symphony that I found so envious.
8
SPEAKER_02
You re still getting piano lessons.
8
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
8
SPEAKER_03
I could not believe that.
8
SPEAKER_03
And I was also like, this guy, what s he doing?
8
SPEAKER_02
The best part is, he has, and I would have been that, Monica, just like you.
8
SPEAKER_02
I d have been like, I went to Juilliard, I m still gonna stay.
8
SPEAKER_02
And the guy s getting rough with you, he stopped you, he s like, no.
8
SPEAKER_02
He grabs your hand.
8
SPEAKER_02
He s like, you gotta breathe.
8
SPEAKER_02
You gotta breathe.
8
SPEAKER_03
It was a beautiful note, but I was like, who is this guy that he is?
8
SPEAKER_03
I don t know about this guy.
8
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I didn t like him either.
8
SPEAKER_02
But what I was seeing, I was recognizing why I could never truly be great at something because you re still a student.
8
SPEAKER_02
That part blew my mind.
8
SPEAKER_02
The fact that you can sit down and take instruction.
8
SPEAKER_02
I crumble on criticism.
8
SPEAKER_01
Man, I feel like you so open in conversation that it s
9
SPEAKER_00
It seems like you re curious and you re constantly trying to grow.
9
SPEAKER_00
Y all both are having these conversations and are trying to obviously take something from this into your life, not just for the sake of having.
9
SPEAKER_00
And I feel that way with everything in the planet.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s a growth mindset, they call it now in elementary school.
9
SPEAKER_00
I feel like I don t know anything and I have to temper it which is like I m constantly looking to see what more I can know or how I can understand it better and at a certain point it can drive me crazy to push and to push and to push and to want to
9
SPEAKER_00
almost forsake the things I think I know, because I m like, oh, no, that s old.
9
SPEAKER_00
That s not going to be the thing that really is going to resonate in the right way.
9
SPEAKER_00
Screw that.
9
SPEAKER_00
But then I m like, no, that was hard fought to get.
9
SPEAKER_00
So then I need to have these pillars of feedback.
9
SPEAKER_00
The great part about that scene, watching that back, I m like, oh, wow.
9
SPEAKER_00
Remember, I first met him.
9
SPEAKER_00
He s an incredible piano teacher who I met.
9
SPEAKER_00
I was 19.
9
SPEAKER_00
I took a lesson every day for a year.
9
SPEAKER_00
And it s like, oh,
9
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
9
SPEAKER_00
I m still trying to think about the things that I was doing when I was 19.
9
SPEAKER_01
I love how he goes, yeah, you remember the first time you played and you did a bunch of fancy stuff to try to impress me?
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
William Dogley, that s him.
9
SPEAKER_00
He pulls no punches, that s for sure.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh my gosh.
9
SPEAKER_00
That was from day one.
9
SPEAKER_00
But yeah, I don t know.
9
SPEAKER_00
And if you can give me insight, I m welcoming it.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s beautiful.
9
SPEAKER_00
I admire it.
9
SPEAKER_02
They say the most brilliant people understand they don t know anything.
9
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
9
SPEAKER_02
That s what it means to be smart, is to understand that you actually don t know anything.
9
SPEAKER_01
Your own limits.
9
SPEAKER_01
Okay, last thing I was gonna say, I said at your market, and it s a thing I m envious about.
9
SPEAKER_01
So what Monica and I have both experienced, which is blissful and transcendent, is improv-ing on a stage with people.
9
SPEAKER_01
It feels so good, but it s not emotion.
9
SPEAKER_01
When I was watching you connect with these different musicians and go places, I found myself like, oh my God, I m not ever going to be able to experience that before I die.
9
SPEAKER_01
This is tragic.
9
SPEAKER_01
I just got so jealous that you can do that.
9
SPEAKER_01
I guess I wanted to know that it does feel in your chest and in your heart the way it seems like it would.
9
SPEAKER_01
It s,
9
SPEAKER_00
One of the best feelings I can t describe.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I thought you couldn t.
9
SPEAKER_02
How could anyone?
9
SPEAKER_00
It becomes like a super consciousness, as you ve probably experienced in some way when a joke that is improvised or a scene that s improvised lands in the timing, in the moment, in the audience.
9
SPEAKER_00
It just all feels like, wow, we re connected to something
9
SPEAKER_00
in this moment that s created oneness there s a real beauty to that that is so so inspiring it s so hopeful it leaves you with such a feeling of inspiration that i can t even express to you
9
SPEAKER_00
how much it s changed my life, knowing that that s an option, that s a space to go into.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and do you make space for it?
9
SPEAKER_01
Do you intentionally go, I need X amount of this in my life?
9
SPEAKER_01
Do you protect it?
9
SPEAKER_01
That s what I want to ask.
9
SPEAKER_00
I ve tried to make everything, every process and ultimately living life an act of protection.
9
SPEAKER_00
creativity and inspiration and improv in the most structured environments on the biggest stages in the studio or any sort of expectation where this is where you button it up, Baptiste.
9
SPEAKER_00
This is where you like, you got to zero in and you got to know what s going to happen before you get there.
9
SPEAKER_00
I always leave space.
9
SPEAKER_00
A little wiggle room.
9
SPEAKER_00
And make it be as free in certain zones as possible.
9
SPEAKER_01
Okay, great.
9
SPEAKER_01
So do you think it was a gift ultimately?
9
SPEAKER_01
The fucking power goes out in the middle of this thing you ve been working on forever while juggling a bone marrow transfusion and the Grammy thing.
9
SPEAKER_01
And now all this and the power goes out
9
SPEAKER_02
One night only performance that you ve been working on for five years.
9
SPEAKER_00
Literally, this performance had been postponed three times.
9
SPEAKER_00
I got COVID the day before the concert.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh boy.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
9
SPEAKER_00
I woke up in the morning, took the test, and I felt like crap.
9
SPEAKER_00
A bus had hit me and I d be hospitalized.
9
SPEAKER_00
That s not even in the film, but that was happening while we were filming.
9
SPEAKER_00
Perfect.
9
SPEAKER_00
He filmed it.
9
SPEAKER_00
He captured 1,500 hours of footage.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
9
SPEAKER_00
Matt Heineman is a beast.
9
SPEAKER_00
And this guy is relentless.
9
SPEAKER_00
And it s truly just like, I just want the truth of what happened.
9
SPEAKER_00
And the story s going to tell me what it s supposed to be.
9
SPEAKER_00
And I m going to capture this.
9
SPEAKER_00
And I m going to capture that.
9
SPEAKER_00
And then I ll decide.
9
SPEAKER_00
Three postponements.
9
SPEAKER_00
I m bedridden three months before what you see in the doc as the premiere, literally in the hospital.
9
SPEAKER_00
Before that, the world shuts down.
9
SPEAKER_00
And it was postponed another year.
9
SPEAKER_00
We get on stage.
9
SPEAKER_00
You got an orchestra that I hand selected these people in the orchestra.
9
SPEAKER_00
You got people with modular synthesizers, people who are playing classical instruments with like indigenous folk instruments all blended together.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s just this impossible logistical thing.
9
SPEAKER_00
Matt has 12 cameras shooting.
9
SPEAKER_00
With Steadicam on stage, that was a battle in and of itself.
9
SPEAKER_00
Then we re recording it.
9
SPEAKER_00
We re going through all of this stuff, union stuff.
9
SPEAKER_00
This orchestra is hand-selected.
9
SPEAKER_00
Some of these people have never even played indoors before.
9
SPEAKER_00
And we re on stage.
9
SPEAKER_00
The first movement, the power goes out for 15 minutes.
9
SPEAKER_00
15 minutes.
9
SPEAKER_00
Not only does it go out for 15 minutes, no one in the audience is aware because the light in the venue on stage.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, only on stage is the power out.
9
SPEAKER_01
Only on stage.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s not like the whole Carnegie Hall went dark.
9
SPEAKER_01
Right.
9
SPEAKER_01
I m watching you hit that little board.
9
SPEAKER_01
I thought you were doing some kind of a beat and I m like, I don t hear the beat he s making.
9
SPEAKER_01
Like just bump, bump, bump, bump, but nothing s happening.
9
SPEAKER_01
Oh, so stressful.
9
SPEAKER_01
The anxiety and then you have this crazy moment.
9
SPEAKER_01
It appeared to be at some point you surrendered to it.
9
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
9
SPEAKER_01
And then
9
SPEAKER_01
What was the piece you played?
9
SPEAKER_01
It was completely improvised.
9
SPEAKER_01
It was completely improvised.
9
SPEAKER_01
And it starts with the frustration of the moment.
9
SPEAKER_01
It starts out hectic in Nina Simone.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
9
SPEAKER_01
And then we find some beautiful kind of exit to it.
9
SPEAKER_01
It transforms real time.
9
SPEAKER_01
It s almost like
9
SPEAKER_01
We re literally peeking inside what s happening inside of your body physiologically.
9
SPEAKER_01
It s like panic, frustration, stress.
9
SPEAKER_01
It starts.
9
SPEAKER_01
And then now you re doing the thing you know how to do.
9
SPEAKER_01
And you remember you can swim.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
9
SPEAKER_01
And then you re like, wait, we have a big hole to fill and I know how to fill it.
9
SPEAKER_01
That s what it appeared to be.
9
SPEAKER_00
Is that what was happening internally?
9
SPEAKER_00
That s what was happening in my reverse analysis of it.
9
SPEAKER_00
In the moment, it was survival.
9
SPEAKER_00
And it was just this idea that, oh, wow, so many people created the opportunity for us to be the people to create this moment in history.
9
SPEAKER_00
Whether you know it or not, this is so important.
9
SPEAKER_00
And for it to be halted, it felt like a spiritual attack.
9
SPEAKER_00
Just like the years of toil and the craft of music and studying all of these people s music and living life and trying to transmute that into music and vice versa and all this comes into a piece of music that s like, oh wow, I didn t even have the audacity to even try to write anything like this a few years before this.
9
SPEAKER_00
And now we did it.
9
SPEAKER_00
And we re here.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s like, who pulled the plug?
9
SPEAKER_00
Who is trying to attack us?
9
SPEAKER_00
What force out there is trying to attack us?
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s the same force that s got you at the hospital.
9
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
9
SPEAKER_00
It was a processing of it and a purging of it.
9
SPEAKER_00
It was like a battle.
9
SPEAKER_00
We come out on the other side.
9
SPEAKER_00
We can just take a deep breath.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
And finally just revel in this moment.
9
SPEAKER_00
Sulayka is there, front and center.
9
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it was really a spiritual purging.
9
SPEAKER_00
It was a battle.
9
SPEAKER_01
I bet that s quite an experience to have lived through.
9
SPEAKER_01
Because fear of things, right?
9
SPEAKER_01
Like your worst nightmares and what they feel like they ll be versus what they re like when you re walking through them, when you show up, as you said.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s so much better.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s almost like I revel in that.
9
SPEAKER_01
You survived and now you wouldn t change a thing, I d imagine.
9
SPEAKER_01
No, I prefer it.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it was rad.
9
SPEAKER_01
That was quite a moment.
9
SPEAKER_01
The documentary American Symphony is so beautiful and wonderful.
9
SPEAKER_01
And then World Music Radio, which is your album that s out right now, which if I can just give a shout out that my kids love Be Who You Are so much.
9
SPEAKER_01
I ve been listening to your music all week in preparation for this and driving the kids to school.
9
SPEAKER_01
And then when Be Who You Are came on, Lincoln already knows the words, which is awesome.
9
SPEAKER_01
But for me, Calling Your Name is the song.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
9
SPEAKER_01
I love that word.
9
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God, can I tell you the funniest story?
9
SPEAKER_01
Chris and I got on a plane leaving Nashville one time.
9
SPEAKER_01
It was like 11 years ago.
9
SPEAKER_01
And fucking Lionel Richie was on the plane.
9
SPEAKER_01
He s three rows ahead of us.
9
SPEAKER_01
And then in the middle of the flight, he just gets up and he comes over to our seat.
9
SPEAKER_01
We re assuming he doesn t know who we are.
9
SPEAKER_01
And he goes, hi, I m Lionel Richie.
9
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, oh my God, how are you?
9
SPEAKER_01
Hello.
9
SPEAKER_01
We re chatting.
9
SPEAKER_01
And he had just performed at Bonnaroo and we were there promoting something at Bonnaroo.
9
SPEAKER_01
Oh yeah, I was at Bonnaroo too.
9
SPEAKER_01
And I said, you know, I have to tell you, this is going to blow your mind, but I actually know what your best song is.
9
SPEAKER_01
And he goes, Oh, what?
10
SPEAKER_01
is my best song? 
10
SPEAKER_01
And I go, this is your life.
10
SPEAKER_01
And he goes, that is my best song.
10
SPEAKER_01
There s no way he thought that, but it was this hilarious moment where he was nice enough to give me that.
10
SPEAKER_02
Oh my God, was it fun.
10
SPEAKER_02
That s great.
10
SPEAKER_02
Lionel Richie, he should be studied in music programs.
10
SPEAKER_02
He did something transitioning from where he started to where he ended up as a songwriter and his cultural presence that s really pretty unprecedented.
10
SPEAKER_02
And done very elegantly.
10
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
10
SPEAKER_02
The whole ride.
10
SPEAKER_02
Oh yeah.
10
SPEAKER_02
We just were together in Montreux.
10
SPEAKER_02
Sulayka s family is in Tunisia and also in Switzerland.
10
SPEAKER_02
So we were there, the whole family, for a month.
10
SPEAKER_02
And we spent some time with Mr. Richie.
10
SPEAKER_02
We were hanging out out there.
10
SPEAKER_02
He was performing at the Great Demontro Jazz Festival, and we were just there.
10
SPEAKER_02
And then I called him and I said, hey, I just like to spend time around the legends.
10
SPEAKER_02
Again, they know something, but it s oftentimes just being around them, you pick up something.
10
SPEAKER_02
Even just the way you gave me that anecdote, the exchange in his energy, I got something from that.
10
SPEAKER_01
That felt familiar.
10
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it s like, wow.
10
SPEAKER_02
This is how you are.
10
SPEAKER_02
Your music will never be any more or less than you are as a human being.
10
SPEAKER_02
All of it s coming out.
10
SPEAKER_01
That s what you have to give, what you are.
10
SPEAKER_01
So, what are you?
10
SPEAKER_02
Yes, yes.
10
SPEAKER_03
Ooh, he said, sun and a star, night and a day.
10
SPEAKER_01
World music radio.
10
SPEAKER_01
It s so good.
10
SPEAKER_01
It s so good.
10
SPEAKER_01
So if we were on an airplane, I would have told you, you know, the best song on that album is calling your name.
10
SPEAKER_03
Oh man.
10
SPEAKER_01
So beautiful.
10
SPEAKER_01
This has been so heavenly.
10
SPEAKER_01
I have to shut it down.
10
SPEAKER_01
I wouldn t shut it down if not reality were knocking at the door.
10
SPEAKER_04
We re probably in trouble because you had a hard out six hours ago.
10
SPEAKER_04
Way past it.
10
SPEAKER_01
I m not so good at those.
10
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, us either.
10
SPEAKER_03
Roll with it.
10
SPEAKER_03
This was a dream.
10
SPEAKER_04
This was a dream.
10
SPEAKER_03
So will you be set up?
10
SPEAKER_03
Like, would you be set up?
10
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_03
Really?
10
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_03
Okay.
10
SPEAKER_04
You get my number and you set me up.
10
SPEAKER_03
OK, you ll be set up.
10
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_03
I can t wait to hear who you got in mind.
10
SPEAKER_03
Wow.
10
SPEAKER_03
Wow.
10
SPEAKER_03
L.A.
10
SPEAKER_03
base has to be L.A.
10
SPEAKER_03
base.
10
SPEAKER_04
I am building a house.
10
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, that s right.
10
SPEAKER_04
So you got roots getting mad.
10
SPEAKER_03
I would call.
10
SPEAKER_01
I can t wait.
10
SPEAKER_01
Jacob, Jacob.
10
SPEAKER_01
Hey, Jacob, you re lucky as a motherfucker.
10
SPEAKER_01
I know.
10
SPEAKER_01
You don t even know.
10
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_02
Well, you know what?
10
SPEAKER_02
We got something.
10
SPEAKER_04
I like it.
10
SPEAKER_04
I like that.
10
SPEAKER_01
John, this has been so fun.
10
SPEAKER_01
So, so fun.
10
SPEAKER_01
At closest, I m going to get to it.
10
SPEAKER_02
I love it.
10
SPEAKER_01
Transition to the taxi theme song.
10
SPEAKER_03
How s it go?
10
SPEAKER_03
Monica s so nervous.
10
SPEAKER_03
I love John doing it.
10
SPEAKER_03
You don t like it?
10
SPEAKER_03
I love it.
10
SPEAKER_03
She wants me to stay out of it.
10
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes.
10
SPEAKER_01
I get it, I get it.
10
SPEAKER_01
We have a history, you know?
10
SPEAKER_01
Like, Picasso s here, he s painting.
10
SPEAKER_01
I m like, hey, I got paints, too.
10
SPEAKER_01
Look at these.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s what s happening.
10
SPEAKER_04
But I also love that you re expressing yourself.
10
SPEAKER_01
Thank you.
10
SPEAKER_04
If you do another one night only symphony, can you please invite us?
10
SPEAKER_01
That s so interesting.
10
SPEAKER_01
I had a similar request.
10
SPEAKER_04
I was so angry watching this that I wasn t there for that.
10
SPEAKER_01
Well, you know what I m angry about?
10
SPEAKER_01
And it s literally in my notes.
10
SPEAKER_01
I want to see Stay Human on a subway or in person in public.
10
SPEAKER_01
If you told me we re playing tomorrow, I will fly to New York that day.
10
SPEAKER_01
That is a life goal of mine now.
10
SPEAKER_01
Do you guys ever still?
10
SPEAKER_01
Do that?
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_02
You know, I m doing my first ever tour in February.
10
SPEAKER_02
Okay, so February, what s the name of the tour?
10
SPEAKER_02
It s called Purifying the Airwaves.
10
SPEAKER_02
Purifying the Airwaves.
10
SPEAKER_02
And I m doing it in small theaters and it s across America, it s the election year.
10
SPEAKER_02
And it s the time where I feel like the stay human experience needs to be revived.
10
SPEAKER_02
Right.
10
SPEAKER_02
And that experience that we created together in this time is almost more relevant than it was when we were doing it in the subway in 2011, 2012.
10
SPEAKER_02
We re even further off course now.
10
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_02
I almost feel like the tour is a love campaign, like a love revolution.
10
SPEAKER_02
And it has to be town hall feeling, intimate.
10
SPEAKER_02
There s so many things we re going to do around it.
10
SPEAKER_02
Schools we re going to go into, community centers.
10
SPEAKER_02
We re going to be playing in the public.
10
SPEAKER_02
I have a bus.
10
SPEAKER_02
Do you need me to drive you to all these shows?
10
SPEAKER_02
Man, come on, let s go.
10
SPEAKER_02
However I can make myself useful.
10
SPEAKER_02
Come on.
10
SPEAKER_02
I m getting back into the stay human experience.
10
SPEAKER_01
Keep us updated.
10
SPEAKER_01
I ll go see those shows, but also if you ever think you re going to pop out on First Avenue and get crazy, I want to be there.
10
SPEAKER_01
I ll try to snap and clap quietly, Monica, but I can t make any promises I won t get.
10
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I ll bring my, yeah, I ll bring, yeah.
10
SPEAKER_04
Oh my God, you re gonna come with your drum set.
10
SPEAKER_04
Fuck.
10
SPEAKER_01
Well, lovely.
10
SPEAKER_01
This has just been heaven sent.
10
SPEAKER_01
Thank you.
10
SPEAKER_01
Thank you, John.
10
SPEAKER_01
Thank you, thank you.
10
SPEAKER_01
Be well.
10
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_01
Stay tuned for the fact check so you can hear all the facts that were wrong.
10
SPEAKER_04
Hello.
10
SPEAKER_01
Hi.
10
SPEAKER_01
Are you still nauseating on your chippies?
10
SPEAKER_04
A little, I have a couple chippies left.
10
SPEAKER_01
Stuck in your teeth?
10
SPEAKER_04
Mm-hmm.
10
SPEAKER_01
Chips will do that.
10
SPEAKER_01
You have some chips and then you re dealing with it for a little while afterwards.
10
SPEAKER_04
I do love a chip.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, they re phenomenal.
10
SPEAKER_01
Especially a salt and vinegar.
10
SPEAKER_01
I know.
10
SPEAKER_01
More vinegar the better, please.
10
SPEAKER_04
Extra Vin.
10
SPEAKER_01
Extra Vin, and don t be stingy with the Vinny.
10
SPEAKER_01
That d be a cool shirt, don t be stingy with the Vinny.
10
SPEAKER_04
Sure, it d be extra cool if your name was Vinny.
10
SPEAKER_01
Oh, we should get that for Vinny.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, we should.
10
SPEAKER_01
And one for Cinny.
10
SPEAKER_03
And Cinny.
10
SPEAKER_01
Oh, don t be stingy with the Cinny.
10
SPEAKER_04
Speaking of Cinny and Vinny, David.
10
SPEAKER_04
David Farrier.
10
SPEAKER_04
David Farrier, who we call Cinnamon, a.k.a.
10
SPEAKER_04
Cinny.
10
SPEAKER_04
He ordered Vincent a baby White Sox hat.
10
SPEAKER_04
like a year and a half ago or something.
10
SPEAKER_01
Right when he was born.
10
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_01
And it just arrived?
10
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
10
SPEAKER_01
I feel like that would only happen to David.
10
SPEAKER_01
This is so in keeping.
10
SPEAKER_04
It is.
10
SPEAKER_04
It ended up getting like to FedEx, even though it wasn t FedEx, it like got all over.
10
SPEAKER_04
And the guy wrote this long letter to David
10
SPEAKER_00
The guy delivering it.
10
SPEAKER_00
UPS driver.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_00
Someone from like, they had paid for like DHL postage and brought it to UPS.
10
SPEAKER_00
So it just got stuck in this like.
10
SPEAKER_00
It got stuck in this like internal world.
10
SPEAKER_01
In the cogs of the logistics world.
10
SPEAKER_04
And then some guy working there like came across it and I guess it was all fucked up so he could see what was in it.
10
SPEAKER_04
And then he wrote this whole letter.
10
SPEAKER_04
It s very sweet, actually.
10
SPEAKER_04
It s a very heartwarming story.
10
SPEAKER_01
A lot of apologies in the letter, or just explanation?
10
SPEAKER_04
No, because it wasn t that guy s fault, but he made sure it got to him.
10
SPEAKER_01
Okay, he took it on his own to get this.
10
SPEAKER_01
Maybe because he saw it was for a baby.
10
SPEAKER_01
That would help motivate you to be helpful.
10
SPEAKER_04
I think, and he was a White Sox fan himself.
10
SPEAKER_01
It s a movie miracle.
10
SPEAKER_01
It might, yeah, it d be a Christmas.
10
SPEAKER_01
It sounds like it might be an EQ.
10
SPEAKER_01
They might fall in love.
10
SPEAKER_01
It s a male episode.
10
SPEAKER_04
Ding, ding, ding, Easter egg.
10
SPEAKER_01
It does sound like a Christmas movie.
10
SPEAKER_04
Exactly.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, like it was supposed to be delivered.
10
SPEAKER_04
Ding, ding, ding, Easter egg.
10
SPEAKER_01
Christmas.
10
SPEAKER_01
That s coming.
10
SPEAKER_01
Well, today again, and I m with it now.
10
SPEAKER_01
So today s really December 1st.
10
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_01
So I woke the girls up with the Charlie Brown Christmas album playing throughout the house.
10
SPEAKER_01
It s on now.
10
SPEAKER_01
It s like, we cannot miss it.
10
SPEAKER_01
Today s the day.
10
SPEAKER_04
Today s the day.
10
SPEAKER_01
Christmas songs start today and they will not stop until the new year.
10
SPEAKER_04
Today is the day I get to start eating my Tony s advent calendar.
10
SPEAKER_01
Oh, you have a Tony s advent calendar.
10
SPEAKER_04
You know Tony s chocolate?
10
SPEAKER_04
I do not.
10
SPEAKER_04
Yes, you do.
10
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
10
SPEAKER_04
The big bars, your family has them.
10
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I do know.
10
SPEAKER_01
It looks like kids drew the packaging.
10
SPEAKER_04
Yes, and it s so delicious.
10
SPEAKER_04
They have an advent calendar this year they sent me, and I get a new chocolate every day.
10
SPEAKER_01
Ooh.
10
SPEAKER_04
I m so excited.
10
SPEAKER_01
Fun.
10
SPEAKER_04
Yes, okay.
10
SPEAKER_01
About to get serious?
10
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, to get serious.
10
SPEAKER_01
Okay, you re shifting gears.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
10
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
10
SPEAKER_04
I feel bad because this has now happened multiple times recently where we are recording the fact check so quickly after we ve recorded the guest.
10
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I actually prefer that.
10
SPEAKER_04
But it s not.
10
SPEAKER_01
Today.
10
SPEAKER_04
Well, today it s good, I guess.
10
SPEAKER_01
Normally I don t like that.
10
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
10
SPEAKER_01
But in this weird case, because one of the complaints I read about online, which is a fair one, is so often we don t talk anything about the gas.
11
SPEAKER_02
Oh, that s weird.
11
SPEAKER_02
I hear the opposite.
11
SPEAKER_02
Like, you never get to the facts.
11
SPEAKER_01
You never say facts.
11
SPEAKER_01
Right, which would be about the guest.
11
SPEAKER_02
Oh, that s what they mean then.
11
SPEAKER_01
Well, it can go either way, right?
11
SPEAKER_01
But the problem is, is it might ve been a week later, and it s just not on front of mind.
11
SPEAKER_01
So in this case, what I m glad about, I don t think it s gonna wane, but the amount of magic I feel in my heart and soul in this moment, because we re in the direct wake of it.
11
SPEAKER_02
Well, yeah, okay, so let me finish.
11
SPEAKER_02
So we ve been having so many episodes where the fact check is recorded so quickly after the guest is recorded that there isn t, I haven t edited it yet.
11
SPEAKER_02
I don t even have it yet, so I can t do facts on it.
11
SPEAKER_02
And I feel like maybe people think,
11
SPEAKER_02
we ve given up, we don t care anymore.
11
SPEAKER_02
And that s not true.
11
SPEAKER_02
I want to remind everyone, there was a very long and rich writers and actors strike that we still are feeling the ramifications of.
11
SPEAKER_01
Normally we have a little buffer that we don t have.
11
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
It s kind of fun.
11
SPEAKER_01
We re flying by the seat of our pants.
11
SPEAKER_02
Fun.
11
SPEAKER_01
And stressful.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_02
So we have just finished interviewing John Batiste.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
11
SPEAKER_02
And now we re doing a fact check on him.
11
SPEAKER_02
So yet again, there are no facts because we literally just did it.
11
SPEAKER_02
But I would venture to say, I don t think there are any facts on this episode.
11
SPEAKER_01
It didn t feel fact heavy.
11
SPEAKER_01
It felt emotional heavy.
11
SPEAKER_01
It felt art heavy.
11
SPEAKER_02
Art both is and isn t facts.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
11
SPEAKER_02
I have been wanting to have him on for quite a long time.
11
SPEAKER_02
And you know why?
11
SPEAKER_02
My witch, my face witch, who I don t necessarily consider very plugged in.
11
SPEAKER_01
Right, to the zeitgeist of pop culture.
11
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, because she lives in Hogwarts.
11
SPEAKER_01
Witchland, yeah.
11
SPEAKER_02
She mentioned him, that she had seen him on something or an interview or something.
11
SPEAKER_02
This was a while ago.
11
SPEAKER_02
She was like, you should really have him on your show.
11
SPEAKER_01
Oh, she suggested to have it on the show.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
11
SPEAKER_01
Oh, wow.
11
SPEAKER_02
Yes, and- What was she write?
11
SPEAKER_01
Let me thank her.
11
SPEAKER_02
She was telling me about his story, him and Sulika s story.
11
SPEAKER_02
And I was like, oh, wow, that really does sound really interesting.
11
SPEAKER_01
I don t need to say this, but I m going to say it.
11
SPEAKER_01
If you watch the doc and then you watch him perform, say at the Grammys, and you wonder, is he actually that person?
11
SPEAKER_01
Could someone be that person?
11
SPEAKER_01
I just want to say that he in person is beyond that person.
11
SPEAKER_01
The thing that seems unimaginable when you re watching him perform or whatever, there s actually more of that in real life.
11
SPEAKER_01
I mean, he s in the top five most unique people we ve interviewed.
11
SPEAKER_01
Top five, I think- Well, I just, I say that to be safe, because we ve had so many, and I ll probably think, I ll be like, oh really, Letterman?
11
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
11
SPEAKER_02
No, Letterman is, but he s not.
11
SPEAKER_02
Like, I loved that.
11
SPEAKER_02
So I m not saying, yes, I think he s the most unique person we ve had on this show.
11
SPEAKER_02
I said, and I stand by, I think he s the highest level of genius we ve had in this attic.
11
SPEAKER_02
I do think that.
11
SPEAKER_02
I think it above the scientists.
11
SPEAKER_02
It s a different frequency of life he is living on.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_02
He s been dropped down.
11
SPEAKER_01
Like I believe that.
11
SPEAKER_01
It s adjacent to what you re saying, but I would say his version of genius is in the most finite amount I ve ever seen.
11
SPEAKER_01
Like there are,
11
SPEAKER_01
almost nobody that has his specific genius.
11
SPEAKER_02
That s what I mean.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
That s what I mean.
11
SPEAKER_02
It is a truly one of one on so many levels, not just his musical ability.
11
SPEAKER_02
His synthesis, oh, here we go with this horrible word.
11
SPEAKER_01
Does that plague you a lot?
11
SPEAKER_02
Synthesization, synthesis.
11
SPEAKER_01
Synthesis.
11
SPEAKER_01
There s no Z. Real time fact check, there s no Z in synthesis.
11
SPEAKER_02
That s right.
11
SPEAKER_02
His synthesis of what life is about and his ability to communicate that through music is on another, it s just another level.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
Oh, but just the spirit of his energy.
11
SPEAKER_01
Oh, so fun.
11
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, when I said I wanted to like tickle him and roll around with him, that s the best way I can explain how I felt about him.
11
SPEAKER_01
Like, I just want to like tickle and roll and just tackle each other.
11
SPEAKER_01
Like puppies, like playing a pen.
11
SPEAKER_02
Oh, but you don t want to hurt him on accident.
11
SPEAKER_01
Oh God, no.
11
SPEAKER_01
No, I just want to like play, like the play was so fun verbally and then now I just want to like wrestle and you know.
11
SPEAKER_02
You re a very physical person.
11
SPEAKER_01
I am.
11
SPEAKER_01
It s my first language.
11
SPEAKER_01
It s my love language.
11
SPEAKER_01
It is your love language.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, touch, squeeze, shove.
11
SPEAKER_02
Physical touch.
11
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, sometimes you throw people across the room.
11
SPEAKER_01
Ten, yeah, give someone a ten.
11
SPEAKER_01
Pick them up, carry them around.
11
SPEAKER_02
During the Wiz Khalifa episode, you pushed me down.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, that s right.
11
SPEAKER_02
And he had to act like he didn t see it.
11
SPEAKER_01
He wasn t worried about the domestic abuse that was happening in front of his eyes.
11
SPEAKER_01
Imagine if you tickled him.
11
SPEAKER_01
By the end, it would have worked.
11
SPEAKER_01
I think it would too.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
He almost tickled me by the end.
11
SPEAKER_02
He was very sweet with Lincoln, whiz.
11
SPEAKER_01
Whiz, yes.
11
SPEAKER_01
And Lincoln, that was so weird.
11
SPEAKER_01
Lincoln is not a hugger by nature.
11
SPEAKER_01
I mean, she hugs us, of course, but she s not, like Delta will hug an Uber driver.
11
SPEAKER_01
Lincoln s not that way.
11
SPEAKER_01
And when Lincoln walked up and just started looking at him, she just weirdly, instinctually just walked in and hugged him when she greeted him, which is so un-Lincoln.
11
SPEAKER_02
That is.
11
SPEAKER_01
Something like about him.
11
SPEAKER_02
He was very warm towards her.
11
SPEAKER_02
I noticed it.
11
SPEAKER_02
I was like, oh man, he s really, and he has a 10-year-old, so I m sure he connects with that age, but it was really sweet.
11
SPEAKER_01
And not just does he have a 10-year-old, which became very clear.
11
SPEAKER_01
He s very into the 10-year-old in a way that is so, he doesn t just have a kid.
11
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_02
But we re not here to talk about whiz.
11
SPEAKER_01
But we could as well.
11
SPEAKER_02
But we can if we want.
11
SPEAKER_01
Let s go back to the fax thing.
11
SPEAKER_02
OK, great.
11
SPEAKER_01
So people will complain about that.
11
SPEAKER_01
But part of me doesn t buy it a tiny bit, because let s be honest.
11
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
Even in the best version, facts make up like 7% of this, and we ve been doing it for six years, and we talk for an hour every time.
11
SPEAKER_01
So I can t imagine you re still listening to the fact check, expecting a ton of facts.
11
SPEAKER_01
That s the part I don t understand.
11
SPEAKER_02
My guess is that people who listen to the fact check like hearing about what s going on in our life.
11
SPEAKER_01
That s my hope, and my kind of belief at this point, because this isn t new that we re only giving facts for 5% of the time.
11
SPEAKER_01
We do pick up new listeners along the way.
11
SPEAKER_01
Did you read the breakdown that Spotify sent us about our year?
11
SPEAKER_02
Yes, I did.
11
SPEAKER_01
Did you notice what our fastest growing, it says our fastest growing country.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yes, I knew.
11
SPEAKER_01
Did you see what number two was?
11
SPEAKER_01
Yes, I knew you would.
11
SPEAKER_01
India?
11
SPEAKER_02
Boom!
11
SPEAKER_02
You didn t see it?
11
SPEAKER_02
It was India, right?
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
11
SPEAKER_02
I thought you were just guessing, but yes, it was India.
11
SPEAKER_01
India!
11
SPEAKER_02
I know.
11
SPEAKER_01
Was that not a shocker to you?
11
SPEAKER_02
It was, I was not expecting it.
11
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_02
But then I was like, wow.
11
SPEAKER_01
Well, I guess one reason I wasn t expecting that is I kind of forget that everyone speaks English there or that many, many people speak English there.
11
SPEAKER_01
I forget that.
11
SPEAKER_02
Pretty much all, yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
Like whenever we see the breakdown of who s listening, generally outside of the US, like Australia is always up there, Canada s up there.
11
SPEAKER_01
It s all English speaking, New Zealand, England.
11
SPEAKER_01
So to see India, I was thrilled, but then I was like, yeah, they do speak English and there are a billion Indians, so sure.
11
SPEAKER_02
I wonder if a lot of them are my family.
11
SPEAKER_01
That crossed my mind.
11
SPEAKER_01
I m not kidding because when we went and saw Hussan, the audience is 93%.
11
SPEAKER_01
Indian, Desi.
11
SPEAKER_01
Desi.
11
SPEAKER_01
And what I liked about that is like, they show up for each other.
11
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
And you re Indian.
11
SPEAKER_01
So I was like, maybe they re showing up for Monty.
11
SPEAKER_01
They might be.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yes, your Indian-ness could maybe make us pass Joe Rogan.
11
SPEAKER_01
Because there s a billion.
11
SPEAKER_00
What if when you go to India, you re like Justin Bieber there?
11
SPEAKER_02
And I don t even know.
11
SPEAKER_00
You haven t been to India before either?
11
SPEAKER_02
Not since when I was four.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, your first time back.
11
SPEAKER_02
What if there are murals up?
11
SPEAKER_01
That would be.
11
SPEAKER_02
They don t give a fuck.
11
SPEAKER_02
They have their own.
11
SPEAKER_02
They have huge stars there.
11
SPEAKER_02
They are not paying attention to little old me.
11
SPEAKER_01
I think they are.
11
SPEAKER_01
I think that s why we re seeing the huge growth.
11
SPEAKER_01
And I thank you.
11
SPEAKER_01
Rob and I both thank you on behalf of the show.
11
SPEAKER_01
We thank you.
11
SPEAKER_02
I was excited to see that.
11
SPEAKER_01
Because if we, let s just say that we had the same percentage of listeners per capita in India that we had in the US, well, that would be a juggernaut.
11
SPEAKER_02
Maybe I should go do a little tour.
11
SPEAKER_02
Let s do a press tour.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, do a little press tour.
11
SPEAKER_02
I m dying to get to Kerala, so.
11
SPEAKER_02
My parents are planning a trip, a big India trip after my dad retires maybe, or whatever, in a couple of years.
11
SPEAKER_01
He s not gonna retire.
11
SPEAKER_02
I know.
11
SPEAKER_01
But he s acting like he s gonna?
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
It s kind of a damn thing to do.
11
SPEAKER_02
My mom really wants to travel bad.
11
SPEAKER_02
And so he, I do think, wants to give her that.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_02
So they re making all these trips and plans and stuff.
11
SPEAKER_01
You know what he s probably, I suggested this to my father-in-law.
11
SPEAKER_01
When he s getting ready to retire, they re not gonna want him to retire.
11
SPEAKER_01
It s a prime opportunity to say, like, I d like to go down to six months a year.
11
SPEAKER_01
Just throw it out there to see if that s an option.
11
SPEAKER_00
He ll keep doing contract work.
12
SPEAKER_00
Let him do that.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
12
SPEAKER_01
He already, because he was supposed to retire like before.
12
SPEAKER_00
Of course, same with Kristen s dad.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, his work s changing a bit.
12
SPEAKER_01
Like now he s more into a mentor role, which he really likes.
12
SPEAKER_01
Look, here s the other thing.
12
SPEAKER_01
I want them to travel because I know that ll make my mom very happy, but I think it s keeping him young and I like that for him.
12
SPEAKER_00
The work.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
12
SPEAKER_00
And mentally agile and all that.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and it gives him a ton of self-esteem.
12
SPEAKER_01
He says that.
12
SPEAKER_00
Also, he has an enormous brain that has to be focused on something.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
That s what people don t predict.
12
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
12
SPEAKER_00
Like what fills that?
12
SPEAKER_01
I know.
12
SPEAKER_00
It s hard.
12
SPEAKER_00
My Papa Bob, he was forced to retire.
12
SPEAKER_00
He was the longest employee at Wonder Bread in their history.
12
SPEAKER_00
He was forced to retire because he had an ulcer that actually blew out.
12
SPEAKER_00
And I remember going to the hospital and he was forced to retire.
12
SPEAKER_00
And he was so depressed.
12
SPEAKER_00
He really took that hard.
12
SPEAKER_00
When you think about retiring, what do you think?
12
SPEAKER_00
Do you think about it?
12
SPEAKER_00
You re so young.
12
SPEAKER_01
I don t think about it at all.
12
SPEAKER_01
I have a bigger fear of when this show, when you retire.
12
SPEAKER_00
Right.
12
SPEAKER_01
Like when this show comes to an end, what the fuck will I do then?
12
SPEAKER_01
Like what is next for me?
12
SPEAKER_01
That scares me a lot, but I try to, I try to remember that there was a time before this.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that you were happy and fine and healthy.
12
SPEAKER_01
Well, no, that like there was a time before this and then this came.
12
SPEAKER_01
Right.
12
SPEAKER_01
And I could never have imagined it or expected.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_01
So.
12
SPEAKER_00
I have a plan for you, but you know.
12
SPEAKER_01
What is it?
12
SPEAKER_00
I just think you re such an exceptional writer.
12
SPEAKER_01
Thank you.
12
SPEAKER_01
That is on my list.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you could write.
12
SPEAKER_00
It s on my list.
12
SPEAKER_00
In several different ways.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
By the way, that s my retirement plan.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
Like I m not gonna just.
12
SPEAKER_01
Sit around.
12
SPEAKER_00
Wake up in the morning and then relax throughout the day.
12
SPEAKER_00
I don t think that s ever in my future.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
So what is it I ll do?
12
SPEAKER_00
And that s for me what it ll be.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yes, I definitely want to devote time to it.
12
SPEAKER_01
Speaking of, I have some, I don t know for sure, I don t know for sure, but I think I might not do my gift guide this year.
12
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
12
SPEAKER_00
Well, it s funny.
12
SPEAKER_00
You d bring that up.
12
SPEAKER_00
Cause I was laying in bed last night.
12
SPEAKER_00
I was thinking like, fuck Monica, let s get going.
12
SPEAKER_00
I need, I like, I need the shit.
12
SPEAKER_00
I got to start ordering.
12
SPEAKER_00
Cause it won t get here in time.
12
SPEAKER_01
That s why I m feeling like, oh fuck.
12
SPEAKER_01
I have to do it today, tomorrow.
12
SPEAKER_01
I don t, but right now we have a lot going on right now.
12
SPEAKER_01
up until we have a break, but then it ll be too late.
12
SPEAKER_01
Right.
12
SPEAKER_01
And up until that point, I feel overwhelmed.
12
SPEAKER_01
Like, we just have a lot.
12
SPEAKER_00
We do.
12
SPEAKER_00
Six shows a week.
12
SPEAKER_01
We have six shows a week and two fact check.
12
SPEAKER_01
I have eight edits a week.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
12
SPEAKER_01
And that s great and fine.
12
SPEAKER_01
And I love it.
12
SPEAKER_00
As long as that s all you have.
12
SPEAKER_01
But I, yeah, like the idea of doing the gift guide feels like one thing too much.
12
SPEAKER_00
The break, yeah, the straw that s gonna break.
12
SPEAKER_01
The straw that might break this camel, and I am a camel because I don t drink water, smack.
12
SPEAKER_01
I might change my mind, I might do a big pivot.
12
SPEAKER_00
I gotta start making backup plans.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
I gotta like, well, everyone s getting gift cards this year, and you can blame Monica.
12
SPEAKER_00
If you re pissed about the lack of thought that went into it, you can blame Monica.
12
SPEAKER_01
That s my fault.
12
SPEAKER_01
It just reminded me, because I posted this week about Chad s show.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yes, beautiful, again, your writing, beautifully written.
12
SPEAKER_01
It s so good.
12
SPEAKER_01
The show is really good.
12
SPEAKER_01
I am not, that was not an exaggeration.
12
SPEAKER_01
I think there is an, the second to last episode of the show is- Oh, that s the one we cried at the end of.
12
SPEAKER_01
When I was editing it again, I was bawling.
12
SPEAKER_01
I am so grateful that that piece of work exists and that we are affiliated with it is another level of gratitude.
12
SPEAKER_01
It s very special.
12
SPEAKER_00
In fact, intimidatingly so, because I m supposed to do a season of it and you are.
12
SPEAKER_00
I m like, I don t know if I m gonna be.
12
SPEAKER_01
I think I might do a twist.
12
SPEAKER_00
Oh, shocker.
12
SPEAKER_00
Here we go.
12
SPEAKER_00
Last year.
12
SPEAKER_01
I m probably not gonna do a gift guide.
12
SPEAKER_01
No, I think if I do it, or when eventually, I might do a exploration of all the boys and men who have impacted my life.
12
SPEAKER_00
Oh, interesting.
12
SPEAKER_01
And contributed slash not slash maybe I ll learn they didn t or they did to my issues with boys and men.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
So to help you comprehend it all.
12
SPEAKER_01
Process my stuff.
12
SPEAKER_00
I know where you re at.
12
SPEAKER_00
Jed said it.
12
SPEAKER_00
We ve had a bunch of people say it.
12
SPEAKER_00
We all know it well.
12
SPEAKER_00
It s so maddening to know why you are the way you are and it has no impact.
12
SPEAKER_01
It s crazy.
12
SPEAKER_01
I have a date.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_01
tonight.
12
SPEAKER_01
It is taking everything to not cancel.
12
SPEAKER_00
Can I tell you, I m so proud of you.
12
SPEAKER_00
Truly.
12
SPEAKER_00
I m, Imani, I m so proud of you.
12
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
12
SPEAKER_01
It s hard.
12
SPEAKER_01
He s so nice.
12
SPEAKER_01
And he, he really likes me.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, of course he does.
12
SPEAKER_01
And I m really trying to not let that be why exactly.
12
SPEAKER_01
And it is going against.
12
SPEAKER_00
It s contrary action.
12
SPEAKER_01
It s literally contrary action.
12
SPEAKER_01
It s so hard.
12
SPEAKER_01
So we ll see, but it is, it is.
12
SPEAKER_01
It s complex.
12
SPEAKER_01
These things are so hardwired.
12
SPEAKER_01
Orna, come on the show already.
12
SPEAKER_00
Oh, get down here, Orna.
12
SPEAKER_00
Have we reached out to Orna?
12
SPEAKER_01
Don t brush your hair.
12
SPEAKER_01
I follow her on Instagram now.
12
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I do too.
12
SPEAKER_00
There s very few posts, right?
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and like not very many followers.
12
SPEAKER_00
Oh, really?
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
12
Oh.
12
SPEAKER_00
And then I had that Anderson .Paak post.
12
SPEAKER_01
Did it?
12
SPEAKER_00
He wrote back, meet me at his pizza place.
12
SPEAKER_00
No.
12
SPEAKER_00
That s in Koreatown.
12
SPEAKER_00
No.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I mean,
12
SPEAKER_00
I don t know that it ll, that ll happen, but he responded, let s meet here.
12
SPEAKER_00
And he tagged his restaurant.
12
SPEAKER_00
Can I tell you the weirdest fantasy I had?
12
SPEAKER_00
And this is actually for the first time in this fact check on message.
12
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
12
SPEAKER_00
Because John has worked with Leon Bridges, he s worked with everyone.
12
SPEAKER_00
Like when you go through the list, it s so amazing.
12
SPEAKER_00
I had this insane fantasy where John knew he was coming here.
12
SPEAKER_00
So he happened to look at my Instagram.
12
SPEAKER_00
I don t know why he would do that, but let s just say he did.
12
SPEAKER_00
And then he saw that.
12
SPEAKER_00
And then he s like, oh, I m really good friends with Anderson.
12
SPEAKER_00
This will be hilarious to show up with him.
12
SPEAKER_00
I had like a 1%.
12
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
12
SPEAKER_00
It s like you re camping.
12
SPEAKER_01
Sure.
12
SPEAKER_01
Right?
12
SPEAKER_00
I understand.
12
SPEAKER_00
I made it make sense as a possibility.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I know.
12
SPEAKER_01
Fantasies, they re tough because- They re so fun though.
12
SPEAKER_01
They re fun, but man, do they set an expectation that-
12
SPEAKER_00
Although it turned out great because he didn t show up with Anderson .
12
SPEAKER_00
And it was even better.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_01
I wouldn t, I mean, I, I would have not liked that because we need full time with both.
12
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
12
SPEAKER_00
Totally.
12
SPEAKER_00
And I wouldn t have wanted to miss out on what we experienced today with him.
12
SPEAKER_01
So special.
12
SPEAKER_00
I just want to say one behind the scenes thing that happened post interview.
12
SPEAKER_00
He and I were talking, well, the taxi score, of course.
12
SPEAKER_00
Once we went out to take pictures, he was now playing the score from taxis.
12
SPEAKER_00
He loves it.
12
SPEAKER_00
And we were dancing a little bit.
12
SPEAKER_00
And then on the walk to the car, I kind of forced him to listen to my favorite score of all time, Dave Gruson s score from Racing with the Moon.
12
SPEAKER_00
I cannot recommend this movie enough for people.
12
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It s young Sean Penn.
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He s beautiful in it.
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He s such a beautiful boy in it.
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And Nicolas Cage, like two of my favorites.
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It s such a good movie.
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And the score is my very favorite score of all time, Dave Gruson.
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So I played it for him when we were walking out and he stopped in his tracks and he started doing the thing you saw on the dock.
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He went to a place and then we were leaning on each other and I was starting to tear up.
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And then we looked at each other and stared in each other s eyes while we were leaning.
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That was kind of the tickling thing I was talking about.
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Like we needed to be touching.
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It was lovely.
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Yeah, that s lovely.
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It was very fun.
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What a moment.
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Did you have what I had?
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I told him about it, but did you have what I had when I was watching the doc?
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Or it s just this deep sadness that I don t have that thing.
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I do, I am, yeah, I feel very jealous.
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You can observe it, but I feel more, like, I don t see an astronaut go to space and feel like, oh shit, I can t do that.
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The way this thing is like, oh, that s there for the taking, and I didn t dedicate my life to figure out how to do it.
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Oh, I don t have that.
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I don t think there is a shot in hell that even if I started at age two, I would be able to do what he s doing.
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That is a gift.
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It s not something earned.
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But there are people interacting with him musically that aren t him, yet they can join
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the ride and participate without being him.
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They can.
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That guy playing the trombone while he was playing the piano, that guy was doing things for me emotionally that were on par with what John was doing, just like, oh, look at this thing they re sharing.
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And then you hear that, and oh, and then it s this.
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Yeah, I think my number one love is music.
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I m listening to music all day, every day.
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I have since I was a kid.
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I just fucking love music.
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I love every genre and I can t participate in it.
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But it s okay.
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I mean, I play along with the drums.
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But there s an ego version of it.
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And then there s just a, I m missing out on something beautiful.
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It s not my ego.
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I ll get that way about, I ll see someone stand up and I m like, shit, I think I should be able to do that.
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That s more my ego.
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This is more like,
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There s an emotional experience on planet Earth that I can t have.
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But instead of just taking the emotional experience, it s an emotional experience to- Consume it.
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Have it infiltrate you, and as opposed to- But I wanna participate.
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But that s the part that, I know you do, but you re getting pulled out of the actual thing by wishing you were a creator of it.
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The recipient is as important as the creator of art.
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You re right.
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I m gonna take one more run at it from a different angle.
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Okay.
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Because it s really important to me that, I don t know why, it s really important to me that you don t think this is my ego talking, but my very favorite thing to do in the world is to communicate.
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That s what we re doing.
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I love it.
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I love connecting with people.
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So it s just a version of communication that is even more impactful and more to the point and more emotional.
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And I can t do it.
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I don t speak the language.
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I get it.
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And I would love to, because I love to communicate.
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If I could sit with John and ping pong emotions out of this thing, I just, oh, that would be great.
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Yeah.
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But you talk to him in your own way.
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So why, like, I just wonder if there s something about approval in there.
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I really don t think that s it.
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There are so many things, like again, the standup thing I can admit to, that s me wanting to prove my prowess or my abilities, test myself against something, see if I can hit the mark.
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But this to me is what I said in the interview that I believe, which is like math explains physics in a way that language can t.
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And similarly, music explains emotions in a way that I can t.
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And I d love to express my emotions with something like that.
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Yeah, I understand.
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I do understand that.
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It feels like that would be very beautiful and efficient and true.
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I m just trying my best with these words, these dumb sounds I m making with my tongue and teeth.
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Yeah.
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You know?
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I do know.
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Yeah.
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I get it.
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I feel that way a little bit.
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I mean, I feel more when I watch it, when I see his hands on that piano and what is happening and what is getting channeled through his heart, through his fingertips that then get to come into my ears.
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And not only my ears, my body, like I get to experience it.
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I just feel so deeply
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grateful that that exists on this earth, that we get that.
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Yes.
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I think the other element we re responding to that we know innately, but we re not conscious of is we can see his brain s not doing that.
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I mean, we know biomechanically his brain is doing it, but he s not conscious of what comes out when he is
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breaking up that power outage.
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Yeah.
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He has learned how to, I mean, it s flow, I guess is the definition, but he doesn t have to think about that.
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Yeah.
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That s to me what s so intriguing and appealing about it.
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Yeah.
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Even when talking, you run every sentence through your head in a nanosecond before you let it come out of your mouth for good reason.
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But this thing he does just, it just pours out.
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It s so pure, just very pure.
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We love it, we love it.
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I have a lot of muscle memory, because when we do do these fact checks and you look down at your computer, you re about to tell me a fact.
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I know.
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And you keep looking at your computer, and I keep having to remind myself, oh, there s no fact coming.
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Me too.
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I keep doing that too.
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I keep looking for facts and then remembering there aren t any.
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I m glad we re both in it.
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Yeah, we are.
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Well, it was very special.
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And we, ew.
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I thought it was paper, but it s an onion.
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Oh.
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Onion paper.
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We have one more Monday left of this year for this show.
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After this episode we have a Thursday episode, another Monday episode, one other Thursday episode.
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I better start rehearsing my Elvis Christmas songs.
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Yeah, we gotta get on our, we have a Christmas special coming your way.
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But anyway, this is our second to last Monday of the year, and it s been quite a year.
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I had a lot of, again, fun is not necessarily the word, but kind of going through all of our episodes to figure out our best of.
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This year, we re gonna do a little bit different of a best of.
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Fewer best of and longer.
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Fewer.
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Longer and spread over two days.
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So Monday, we ll have our Monday best of.
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That s a great idea.
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Top 10.
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Yeah, I love that you re doing experts and yeah, Mondays.
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And then Thursdays, we ll do our top 10 Thursday.
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But I was piecing, putting this all together this week and figuring out who we were gonna do in the sections.
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And you felt good about it.
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I m very proud of the three of us and what we ve built.
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Very proud of it.
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And I m grateful.
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For the year.
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Me too.
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You guys are impossibly great.
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I don t know how the fuck we all found each other, but it s like all three of our little zones that we re responsible for is just, at least I ll speak for you two, is being done absolutely perfectly.
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It s crazy.
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I m astounded all the time.
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Me too.
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Just you two also.
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We re gonna have to use this on the best of.
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We re gonna repeat ourselves.
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Yeah, I m gonna cut all this.
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Okay, well you re about to leave to go on a little nightcation.
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Yeah, a day trip to Vegas to go to the Sphere.
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Ah, I can t wait to hear.
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Which I ve been dying to go to.
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See you too.
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Can t wait to hear all about it.
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Yeah.
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So fun.
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Someday, bloody Sunday.
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All right, I love you.
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Love you.