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Parents, if you ve ever experienced bedtime battles with the kids, I m gonna let you into a little secret.
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The Koala Moon podcast has revolutionized over 20 million bedtimes, with parents like you calling it life-changing and the perfect nighttime routine.
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Listen to Koala Moon on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Finally, a show about women that isn t just a thinly veiled aspirational nightmare.
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It s not hosted, not narrated.
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We re just dropping into a woman s world.
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I found out when my dad was gay when I was 10.
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We were in a convertible on the 405 freeway, listening to the B-52s.
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Looking back, I should have said, this is gay.
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This is already all gay.
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Listen to finally a show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Imagine you asked two people the same seven questions.
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I m Minnie Driver, and this was the idea I set out to explore in my podcast, Minnie Questions.
0
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This year, we bring a whole new group of guests to answer the same seven questions, including Courtney Cox, Rob Delaney, Liz Phair, and many, many more.
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Join me on season three of Minnie Questions on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite podcasts.
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Seven questions, limitless answers.
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Mental health is now talked about more than ever, which is awesome.
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I mean, I don t have to tell you that it s a primary focus of On Purpose.
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But on a day-to-day basis, many people don t know where to turn or which tools can help.
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Over the past couple of years, I ve been working with Calm to make mental wellness accessible and enjoyable, or as I like to say, fun and easy.
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Calm has all sorts of content to help you reduce anxiety and stress, build mindful habits, improve sleep, and generally feel better in your daily life.
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So many bite-sized options from the most knowledgeable experts in the world, along with renowned meditation teachers.
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You can also check out my 7-minute daily series to help you live more mindfully each and every day.
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Right now, listeners of On Purpose get 40% off a subscription to Calm Premium at calm.com forward slash j. That s c-a-l-m.com forward slash j-a-y for 40% off.
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Calm your mind, change your life.
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I don t give a about my network.
0
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So many people tell me I ve got this great idea, but I don t want to hear about, but like, let s go for it.
0
SPEAKER_01
Part of being an entrepreneur is to have the courage to fail.
0
SPEAKER_01
If you re afraid to fail, you ain t going to do shit.
0
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The global sports company Fanatics.
0
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You heard of it?
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
Founder and CEO Michael Rubin.
0
SPEAKER_01
Welcome back, sir.
0
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I ve seen death in his eyes.
0
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I ve almost gone bankrupt multiple times.
0
SPEAKER_01
There are so many things that I should not have succeeded at, but I have because I won t quit.
0
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If you set goals that are easy to accomplish, then you re actually saying you want to fail.
0
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Before we jump into this episode, I d like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed.
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The best-selling author and host.
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The number one health and wellness podcast.
0
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty.
0
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Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world.
0
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Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow.
0
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Now you know that my goal here and intention is to talk to people from different backgrounds, different walks of life, people who ve achieved
0
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impact in their own life and are having an impact around and across the world.
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People who are motivated to do better, be better and give back.
0
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And today s guest is someone who s doing exactly that.
0
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Probably not as fast as he would like, I ve just learned as well.
0
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I m talking about the one and only Michael Rubin, an entrepreneur, philanthropist and social justice advocate.
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Michael has built several multi-billion dollar direct-to-consumer companies.
0
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Michael s CEO of Fanatics, a global digital sports platform that is reimagining the fan experience across many different businesses.
0
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Michael s an advocate for criminal justice reform and the co-chair of Reform Alliance, an organization that includes some of the biggest names in sports,
0
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business and culture that s dedicated to advancing criminal justice reform and eradicating antiquated probation laws that perpetuate injustice in the United States.
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Michael was named Sports Business Journal Executive of the Year in 2022 and has also been named to the Bleacher Report Power 50 list of most influential people in sports.
0
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Welcome to On Purpose, Michael Rubin.
0
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I m happy to be here.
0
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I ve watched what you ve done, admire what you do, and you ve got such an incredible following and just huge respect for you.
0
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Well, thank you.
0
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The feeling is very mutual.
0
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It s been amazing watching you from afar.
0
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And I ve always been fascinated and drawn to people who ve built incredible businesses and then use their platform for impact.
0
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Because growing up, I didn t see a lot of that.
0
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Growing up, I either saw people build businesses or have an impact.
0
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And so when I see people doing the same, it s exactly the values I try and live by.
0
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And I love watching it.
0
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So thank you for going down that line.
0
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But let s dive straight in.
0
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I want to ask you, Michael, you re such a successful business person.
0
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What was your first ever job?
0
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that you ever had in life?
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So for me, I think a lot of people know the story.
0
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I was a terrible student, you know, barely made it out of high school, went to college for less than a semester.
0
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As bad as a student as I was, I was honestly a worst athlete.
0
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Like I was just, I wasn t coordinated.
0
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I wasn t a good athlete.
0
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The one thing I was always good at was working.
0
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Like I loved business from the time I was a kid.
0
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So everything I remember about being young was working.
0
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So my first job was, that I can remember, was probably eight years old.
0
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I probably had like five different side hustles.
0
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I mean, I was selling trading cards, you know, by the way, not to my friends, but to my friends  parents, because they had the money.
0
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I was, when it would snow in Philadelphia, where I grew up, I would get five kids to do the snow shoveling.
0
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I would go door to door and actually sell the snow shoveling.
0
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I was selling vegetable seeds door to door.
0
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I was making stationery on the Apple II Plus and selling it.
0
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I mean, I was just like,
0
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I was the real entrepreneur.
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It s what I was good at, it s what I liked doing.
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I had so many different jobs as an eight year old.
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When people say how long you ve been at it, it s crazy.
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43 years.
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I ve been doing this since I ve been eight years old.
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Wow.
0
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When you were doing that, was there any inspiration?
0
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Was it just you wanted money?
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What did you want to buy?
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What were you doing with that?
0
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What excited you the most?
0
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Even at eight years old, it was ever about money or wanting to buy things.
0
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I think it was always about doing what you re good at.
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And for me, knowing that I wasn t good, like I had a lot of learning challenges.
0
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I mean, as a kid, like I had every, you know, person to try to help me with all the things I sucked at, whether it was athletically or, you know, it was just like, I just, I wasn t good at sports.
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I wasn t good at school, but
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business was what I was good at.
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So I just always gravitate to that.
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I think that s a good thing.
0
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Like you should always figure out how to do things that you love.
0
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You should figure out how to do things that you re good at and kind of double down on that.
0
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So that s always been my whole life.
0
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How did you know that at eight?
0
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Because I feel like most eight-year-olds today obviously are playing video games.
0
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Back then they were probably watching TV.
0
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Maybe they were out riding a bike.
0
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Like how did you know that you were good at this and
0
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I think it s something for me I was born with, like I was born with that entrepreneurial hustle.
0
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I think I came out of the womb, like just, you know, wanting to be an entrepreneur, like just loving the hustle.
0
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And you know, to me, you know, I ve been at this a long time.
0
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I work harder than I ve ever worked today.
0
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I love it.
0
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It s an honor to do it.
0
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It s fun.
0
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It s an opportunity.
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Like I m never tired.
0
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I m never worn out.
0
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Like I m just always, I just want to go.
0
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Yeah, can it be learned?
0
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Can you teach people to hustle and grind and develop that mindset?
0
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Or is it born with as you are?
0
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So I think I was definitely born with it.
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That said, I do think, you know, for me, the way I learned is by being a sponge from people.
0
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So I m always picking things up from different people.
0
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Like, if you just look at the diversity of people I have around me, like I m always taking so much learnings from them to, you know, be better in what I do.
0
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And I try to give those back.
0
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So yeah, I think you can definitely
0
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learn a lot of this stuff.
0
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Just, you know, find people you respect, find people that you admire, find people that you want to be like, and then, you know, take the good from them.
0
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And by the way, figure out what they do that you don t like and ignore that.
0
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Like I see good and bad in each person.
0
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I try to take the good and learn from the bad.
0
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And same thing with me.
0
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I ve got lots of bad habits.
0
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I mean, like I m myself.
0
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That s right.
0
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That s all I ask for.
0
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That s all I ask for.
0
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There is no judgment here.
0
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It s a safe space.
0
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I just want people to be their authentic selves.
0
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So please continue to be yourself.
0
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I love that idea of learning from people, being a human sponge.
0
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What s the most recent or most memorable thing you think you took away from someone?
0
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A conversation, a moment, something you read or heard or learned.
0
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Was there anything that kind of stuck with you?
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, for sure.
0
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I mean, look, I m in LA for the week, I m doing six to 10 meetings a day in my house.
0
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And, you know, two of the people I met within the last two days have been through some real challenges.
0
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And just watching the challenges that they ve been through, I m like, okay, I need to be that much more careful about how I conduct myself in everything that I do.
0
SPEAKER_01
So to me, I m always taking learnings away from people.
0
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I think if you re not, like, you know, you have no chance of like, you know, getting better at what you do.
0
SPEAKER_01
I mean, it s like, life is no different than sports, you just got to keep getting better at your sport.
0
SPEAKER_01
And so to me, I keep working on everything I do.
0
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Yeah, what do you think, obviously now, like when you started 43 years ago,
1
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at eight years old, entrepreneurship wasn t as touted as this incredible opportunity.
1
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No, it wasn t touted.
1
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It was actually weird.
1
SPEAKER_00
To be clear, I was a nerd.
1
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I loved business.
1
SPEAKER_00
Entrepreneurialism came cool really around technology.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t think it became cool till almost, from my perspective, I think it was really the birth of the dot-com era, kind of late 90s is when entrepreneurialism became cool.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think before that it was kind of nerdy and weird.
1
SPEAKER_00
So I was definitely born before it all.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and I d say even after the financial crisis in like 2007, 8, like that recession, which is because I grew up in the era where we still aspire to be investment bankers or consultants.
1
SPEAKER_01
So when I was at college or when I was growing up, that was seen if you were into business, my goal was to go into that world because that s what I aspired for.
1
SPEAKER_01
Whereas I think the generation after me and the one after me, they were like, I m not going to go work for someone.
1
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I want to build something of my own.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think that s amazing for me.
1
SPEAKER_00
I love, one of the things that I m fortunate enough to do is really, I think in a lot of ways, you know, encourage entrepreneurialism and you know, one of our biggest businesses, the collectibles business, which is trading cards and memorabilia, and that s all about entrepreneurs.
1
SPEAKER_00
There s so many entrepreneurs in that business.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s probably the business in a lot of ways that I, I actually relate to all three of our businesses, but it s the business that s maybe the most relatable for me because I grew up selling trading cards as an eight year old, but also it s all about entrepreneurialism.
1
SPEAKER_01
Talk to me through that business because, so I remember, so back in London, obviously where I grew up, I collected football stickers, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
Soccer stickers.
1
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So that s what we d have.
1
SPEAKER_01
We d have the big, you d have the spread with all the Premier League clubs and you d collect the little stickers and that was a big part of collectibles.
1
SPEAKER_01
How has that industry evolved as technology s grown or has it stayed the same?
1
SPEAKER_01
Were people still collecting cards and like top trumps and things like that?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, well, I ll say we got into the business about three years ago in a really significant way.
1
SPEAKER_00
Today, we own Topps, which is the kind of preeminent brand in trading cards.
1
SPEAKER_00
I d say that until our arrival in the industry a little less than three years ago, I said there hadn t been a tremendous amount of innovation, there hadn t been a tremendous amount of marketing.
1
SPEAKER_00
We kind of looked at the business and said, wow, this is such an incredible collector base, such an incredible fan base, yet it hasn t changed for decades here.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you go to a,
1
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the big trading card show where there s more than 100,000 people that come to Chicago this past summer.
1
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It s called the National Trading Card Show.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it looks like something from 20, 30, 40 years ago.
1
SPEAKER_00
So for us, that just meant opportunity.
1
SPEAKER_00
It meant if you actually make innovative products, you actually really market these products, you build a better consumer experience and bring people forward into 2023, like what an opportunity.
1
SPEAKER_00
So for me, we do that in all of our business.
1
SPEAKER_00
We love finding great opportunities, big challenges, and kind of being unrelenting about going after them.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
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How has that changed?
1
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How has that practically changed?
1
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Like, are people still buying cards and trading?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, physical cards are the biggest part of the business.
1
SPEAKER_00
In a lot of ways, it s very similar to art.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I can tell you, like, just as one quick example, this year, you know, our team came in and actually the CEO of our business, Mike Mahan, said, Hey, I got a great idea.
1
SPEAKER_00
Every time a player debuts for the first time, I want to put a patch on their jersey.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then as soon as they get done the game, I put that patch off and put it in a one-on-one trading card.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you have the card from the first.
1
SPEAKER_00
So think about for us, you know, maybe I grew up in the Michael Jordan era.
1
SPEAKER_00
Had I had, you know, Michael Jordan, or yeah, if I had
1
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Michael Jordan or Kobe s first one-on-one cards.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that could be the most valuable keepsake that I could ever have.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so, you know, that innovation, like for us, it was really simple.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, yeah, why would you not want to put a patch on someone s jersey, stick it into a card and make this a one-on-one card?
1
SPEAKER_00
But no one did that until we created it.
1
SPEAKER_00
And by the way, it s already live.
1
SPEAKER_00
We came up with the idea this past December.
1
SPEAKER_00
It was live in April with all baseball players.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s going to be 300 to 400 baseball players debut this year with this debut patch that we put into a one-on-one cart.
1
SPEAKER_00
So that s just like one of dozens of examples of innovations because you have to be aggressive.
1
SPEAKER_00
We have to be great entrepreneurs.
1
SPEAKER_00
We have to push in whatever we do.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah no what I love about that though for everyone who s listening is I think we re stuck in this world now that believes that all innovation has to be digital or technological or virtual or some sort of you know AI whereas this is like the most tangible physical change but it s still so valuable because it s what people want.
1
SPEAKER_00
Look, we re a three business day.
1
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Our first business where we started is what we call Fanatics Commerce.
1
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That s our merchandise business.
1
SPEAKER_00
We own Lids, the hat retailer.
1
SPEAKER_00
We own Mitchell Ness.
1
SPEAKER_00
We own Fanatics, which operates obviously all of the different league, the NFL shop, the NBA store.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we sell more than $6 billion of mostly fan apparel and headwear, more than 100 million units of merchandise a year.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s a very physical business.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay, but AI is helping us to do things more effectively.
1
SPEAKER_00
In the collectibles business, AI is going to help us to be more effective.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then our third business is the online sports betting and iGaming business.
1
SPEAKER_00
So, you know, for me, we still do a lot of physical things, but there s so many things in the digital world that help us to be better.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, no, but I love that collaboration and thinking about it that way, because sometimes the greatest value to someone is a physical change, but you re learning that through the AI.
1
SPEAKER_00
I still want to wear my Kobe jersey.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, exactly.
1
SPEAKER_01
I want my Bron card.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s the same thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m still buying, I support Manchester United, that s my soccer team and I m still buying, you know, soccer jerseys every single year.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, we appreciate that because that s a Fnatic store.
1
SPEAKER_01
Even though we absolutely suck right now, but it s, you know.
1
SPEAKER_01
But that s what being a sports fan is about.
1
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes you re going to have great years and you re getting those championships and other times you re going to suck and you got to stay with your team.
1
SPEAKER_00
You got to feel the pain.
1
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I m a real fan now.
1
SPEAKER_01
I grew up as a glory hunter because we just won everything and now I m going through a real fandom of
1
SPEAKER_01
We re going to test you now.
1
SPEAKER_00
We re going to see what you re made of.
1
SPEAKER_00
Are you really committed to Man United here?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I m being tested right now.
1
SPEAKER_01
Perfect.
1
SPEAKER_01
We were talking about people not being, entrepreneurship not being touted when you started.
1
SPEAKER_01
When you look at it today, now it s become the cool, sexy, interesting, fascinating thing for people to want to try.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s not necessarily things people are good at, like you said you were.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s not necessarily a skill that we honor or
1
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give it the kudos that it deserves.
1
SPEAKER_01
What are the mistakes people are making when they think about being an entrepreneur today?
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, first of all, entrepreneurialism isn t for everybody, but if you think it s for yourself, you better go out there and try it, put your best foot forward.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, for me, look, the biggest mistakes I see people make
1
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in building a business are kind of a couple of common themes.
1
SPEAKER_00
One is, first you have, like, are you even gonna take the at-bats?
1
SPEAKER_00
So many people tell me, I ve got this great idea, but, like, I don t wanna hear about but.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, let s go for it.
1
SPEAKER_00
If you have an idea, you wanna do something, you know, I love the story you were just telling me before we went on here, that you came over here and, you know, you worked one place for six months, then you re like, I wanna go out and do this, and you went out and did it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, part of being an entrepreneur is to have the courage to fail.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, you just have to go out there and try it.
1
SPEAKER_00
And by the way,
1
SPEAKER_00
When you fail, which many times you will, you re gonna learn from that failure, you re gonna grow from that failure.
1
SPEAKER_00
You talked about Kobe being your favorite athlete.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, guess what?
1
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How many times did he fail and then he got better and he pushed through?
1
SPEAKER_00
And so that s what being an entrepreneur is.
1
SPEAKER_00
So from my perspective, it s really all about first and foremost, if you have something you wanna do, if you believe in it, go for it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Don t worry about whether you succeed or not.
1
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Go out and take the swing.
1
SPEAKER_00
And guess what?
1
SPEAKER_00
If you strike out, if you fail, just go back again.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I know some people are going to say, oh, well, he s really successful now, so it s easy to say.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I ve got to tell you something, I ve seen death in its eyes.
1
SPEAKER_00
I ve almost gone bankrupt multiple times.
1
SPEAKER_00
I ve had epic failures, and every one of those led me to be better in what I do.
1
SPEAKER_00
So that s my first thing.
1
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The second thing I d say is you need great people around you to succeed.
1
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Whether it s great people you re learning from that you want to be a sponge from, whether it s you build a great team to do what you do.
1
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I know for Fanatics, we have 18,000 people that get up and go to bed obsessed with how do we improve the fan experience each day, but I collect and work with the best people on the planet.
1
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If you don t work with great people, you will fail.
1
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You can t win a championship if you don t have great talent, but that talent also needs to work together.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then the last thing, and this will sound corny,
1
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Have fun in what you do.
1
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I love what I do.
1
SPEAKER_00
I have the greatest job on the planet.
1
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I get to wake up, work 18 hours a day, go to bed thinking about what s next.
1
SPEAKER_00
I dream about my work nearly every day.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m having work dreams all the time because I m obsessed with what I m doing.
1
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It s fun.
1
SPEAKER_00
I should pinch myself.
1
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It s so awesome what I get to do.
1
SPEAKER_03
Get emotional with me, Radhi Devlukia, in my new podcast, A Really Good Cry.
1
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We re going to talk about and go through all the things that are sometimes difficult to process alone.
1
SPEAKER_03
We re going to go over how to regulate your emotions, diving deep into holistic personal development, and just building your mindset to have a happier, healthier life.
1
SPEAKER_03
We re going to be talking with some of my best friends.
1
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I didn t know we were going to go there.
1
SPEAKER_03
People that I admire.
1
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When we say listen to your body, really tune in to what s going on.
1
SPEAKER_03
Authors of books that have changed my life.
1
SPEAKER_03
Now you re talking about sympathy, which is different than empathy, right?
1
SPEAKER_03
And basically have conversations that can help us get through this crazy thing we call life.
1
SPEAKER_03
I already believe in myself.
1
SPEAKER_03
I already see myself.
1
SPEAKER_03
And so when people give me an opportunity, I m just like,
1
SPEAKER_03
Oh great, you see me too!
1
SPEAKER_03
We ll laugh together, we ll cry together, and find a way through all of our emotions.
1
SPEAKER_03
Never forget, it s okay to cry, as long as you make it a really good one.
1
SPEAKER_03
Listen to A Really Good Cry with Radhi Devlukia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1
SPEAKER_02
When you find that bright spot to help you get through your day, it s powerful.
1
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That s where The Bright Side comes in.
1
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A new daily podcast from Hello Sunshine that s bringing you a daily dose of joy.
1
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I m Danielle Robay.
1
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And I m Simone Boyce.
1
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Listen, both Danielle and I are reporters.
1
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We ve covered the news and we know the world can feel heavy, but The Bright Side podcast is a space to have a little fun, to learn something new and get into some friendly debates.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s right.
2
SPEAKER_01
Join us five days a week to see how life can look from the bright side.
2
SPEAKER_01
We ll hear from celebrities, authors, experts, and listeners like you.
2
SPEAKER_01
Whether it s relationships, friend advice, or figuring out how to navigate life s transitions, we ll talk through it all together.
2
SPEAKER_01
Listen to The Bright Side from Hello Sunshine every weekday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_00
Something that makes me crazy is when people say, well, I had this career before, but it was a waste.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that s where the perspective shift comes.
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That it s not a waste, that everything you ve done has built you to where you are now.
2
SPEAKER_00
This is She Pivots.
2
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the podcast where we explore the inspiring pivots women have made and dig deeper into the personal reasons behind them.
2
SPEAKER_00
Join me, Emily Tish Sussman, every Wednesday on She Pivots, as I sit down with inspiring women like Misty Copeland, Brooke Shields, Vanessa Hudgens, and so many more.
2
SPEAKER_00
We dive into how these women made their pivot and their mindset shifts that happened as a result.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s a podcast about women, their stories, and how their pivot became their success.
2
SPEAKER_00
Listen to She Pivots on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, absolutely.
2
SPEAKER_03
No, I love hearing that.
2
SPEAKER_03
And I think, you know, what s fascinating to me as well with being an entrepreneur, you know, my story was very different to finding my way into entrepreneurship.
2
SPEAKER_03
I grew up thinking I had to have a steady job because that s how I was raised by good Indian immigrant parents who made me academically astute.
2
SPEAKER_03
And so I was a straight A student, did first class at uni, like I was always good at that.
2
SPEAKER_03
And then I got into a job afterwards after my own detour.
2
SPEAKER_03
And when I finally got into a job, I was just like, this doesn t feel right.
2
SPEAKER_03
Like this doesn t feel like this is going to use my skills to the best of my ability.
2
SPEAKER_03
This doesn t feel like I m going to propel and do well and become my best version of myself.
2
SPEAKER_03
It wasn t about money or what I thought I could win at.
2
SPEAKER_03
It was, I just don t feel this is going to complete me or make me feel like I m winning in the way that I can.
2
SPEAKER_02
Listen, the most important thing is enjoying what you do every day.
2
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I m going to tell you something.
2
SPEAKER_02
I know a lot of people that have been really successful financially and they re miserable.
2
SPEAKER_02
You know what?
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They don t love what they do every day.
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SPEAKER_02
They re not happy.
2
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Like for me, I don t think about financial success
2
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I think about just loving what I m doing now.
2
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Financial success can tell you, are you winning or losing?
2
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That s your report card.
2
SPEAKER_02
That s the scoreboard, right?
2
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Good financial results means you re winning.
2
SPEAKER_02
Bad financial results means you re not winning in the current moment.
2
SPEAKER_02
But for me, I just want to love what I do every day.
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SPEAKER_03
I couldn t agree with you more.
2
SPEAKER_03
I want to wake up and do what I love every day, which is why I do this, because I get to sit down with fascinating people, pick people s minds.
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And then we each learn from each other.
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SPEAKER_03
Absolutely.
2
SPEAKER_03
Absolutely.
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By the way, I guarantee you, I ll leave here today having picked up some things from you and you ll leave from here.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, I m definitely going to.
2
SPEAKER_02
That s the way it works.
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SPEAKER_02
That s the way like we should all be students of each other.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah absolutely.
2
SPEAKER_03
Who s the randomest person you ve learned from?
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SPEAKER_03
I wonder like who s the most curious random intriguing person that we wouldn t expect for you to learn from like not like a business mogul or a you know someone like that but someone you re like you know what that person I didn t expect to learn from them but I did.
2
SPEAKER_03
Is there someone like that comes to mind?
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I could give you a thousand examples.
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SPEAKER_02
I mean, I could tell you when I used to be part of the ownership group of the Philadelphia Sixers, I d walk through the arena and I would ask lots of arena workers, what s going on here today?
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You know, what s working, what s not working?
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Like, you know, you can pick up things from everybody.
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I could walk through the street, look at what someone s wearing and say, hey, where d you buy that?
2
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Is that a good, do you like that?
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Do you not like that?
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SPEAKER_02
Like, I m always asking questions.
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So, you know, for me, I mean, that s pretty random for you to just walk up in the street and ask somebody, you know,
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SPEAKER_02
Where d you buy that?
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Why d you buy it?
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Do you love that?
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So I m always picking things up.
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I m watching the way trends are changing with people.
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Probably the most unique thing about me is the diversity of friends that I have.
2
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And I m learning from the people around me every single day.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I think that s the only way you understand the pulse of human behavior, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
It s like asking questions, watching patterns.
2
SPEAKER_03
I think pattern watching is an ability, whether it s an algorithm, whether it s the stock market, whether it s crypto, whatever it is for people, watching patterns is such an unbelievable skill.
2
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Would you say that s a skill that you ve honed and developed and built?
2
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Well, I think it s a really important skill in business, because I think it s very predictive of the future.
2
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So the reality is, when someone comes in, and I m interviewing a top executive for a role in one of our businesses, and they could seem great, and then I m going to go out, and I m never going to ask anybody for a reference ever.
2
SPEAKER_02
I ve never asked somebody, hey, can you tell me who to call?
2
SPEAKER_02
You ask me for reference on myself, I d call each other s people and say, hey, I gave you as a reference.
2
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Make sure you say great things about me.
2
SPEAKER_02
So the reality is, I ll interview somebody.
2
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The first thing I do is, if I like them, as soon as they leave,
2
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I go out and I start calling people that I knew we had in common to recognize patterns.
2
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Okay.
2
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Because to me, 50% is the interview and 50% is, um, what I learned behind the scenes.
2
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And that s probably the more important 50% because someone can blow me away.
2
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And then, you know, you ll find out one minute that person sucks, that person, people don t like working with them, or you can find out that person was a little bit understated, but they re a beast.
2
SPEAKER_02
You know, they ve got huge followership.
2
SPEAKER_02
Um, they re super smart.
2
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They ve got an unrelenting work ethic.
2
SPEAKER_02
So to me, pattern recognition is everything I use in everything.
2
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that I do.
2
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By the way, I use pattern recognition when I go play blackjack with my friends.
2
SPEAKER_02
You know, there s three types of cards you re going to get cards, you re either going to be, you know, you re either streaking hot, you re streaking cold, or you re kind of in between.
2
SPEAKER_02
And, you know, when you re cold, you should not do what sometimes I ll do if I m misbehaved, which is be aggressive when you re cold, because you got it, you got a pattern going on.
2
SPEAKER_02
So you got to recognize patterns, whatever you do.
2
SPEAKER_03
I find it fascinating how super powerful entrepreneurs hire and fire and recruit and reward and retain people.
2
SPEAKER_03
What have you found?
2
SPEAKER_03
When you re interviewing someone, I feel like you must have interviewed so many people over the years for huge positions, small positions in the beginning.
2
SPEAKER_03
What are you looking for and how are you finding out?
2
SPEAKER_03
Apart from the second part, which I love, calling up people that you have in common, what are you asking?
2
SPEAKER_03
What are you looking for and how are you making sure you find it in that very date-like format?
2
SPEAKER_02
So let me say, first of all, and this will, I think, shock you, I still probably spend 10-20% of a 70-90 hour work week interviewing people, okay?
2
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So I am a beast.
2
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on finding great talent within our companies, because to me, you can t win without great talent.
2
SPEAKER_02
So it is probably the thing, or one of the things that I spend the most time on, is the quest for incredible talent.
2
SPEAKER_02
I m looking for first, does someone have the subject matter expertise and the intellect to be successful in what we want them to do?
2
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And then two, do they have the leadership skills?
2
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Because generally I m interviewing people that are either going to work for me or someone who s going to work for someone who I work with.
2
SPEAKER_02
So let s say the top 50 to 100 people within our 18,000 people.
2
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So I m looking for people that are going to be real leaders, that are going to share the same values that we share.
2
SPEAKER_02
I m looking for people that can be with us for a long period of time.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like, I don t want people that want to come in and be with us for three years.
2
SPEAKER_02
I want people that want to come, like, I like people who want to be with us and build their careers with us for maybe their entire life.
2
SPEAKER_02
You know, we want people that are just going to be, you know, and also people that are going to like, just, they re going to figure out how to win.
2
SPEAKER_02
They re going to put it on their shoulders and they re going to be unrelenting.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like, that s my personality.
2
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Like, there are so many things that I should not have succeeded at, but I have because like, I won t quit.
2
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Okay.
2
SPEAKER_02
And so, so I think those are some of the things that I just rambled to you that I care about.
2
SPEAKER_03
No, I love those and I guess the thing about not quitting is really interesting right because you ve got this unrelenting, you can see it in the way you speak, in your eyes like I ve just spent a few moments with you, we ve never met before today and I can fully see that it is just at the core of who you are and you probably find that you can push people and they may not be able to go as far every time.
2
SPEAKER_03
because they may not have that same energy in them.
2
SPEAKER_03
So how have you found that balance of seeing someone who you know has the potential, you know they have the skills, but it s almost like they re like, Michael, I already went seven times and you re like, yeah, dude, we re going to go 17 because I know at 17 we re going to get there.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I think the people that are in my real inner circle, you know, I have six key executives that I work with day in and day out.
2
SPEAKER_02
The people that run my three businesses, the online sports betting and iGaming business, the commerce business, which is merchandise, and the collectibles business, which is trading cards and memorabilia.
2
SPEAKER_02
These businesses and then my three corporate executives, like
2
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They have that same mentality.
2
SPEAKER_02
I wouldn t want to work with anyone that didn t have that mentality of like, you know, because they re saying the culture for the entire 18,000, you know, employees at fanatics.
2
SPEAKER_02
And so to me, people don t share our core values.
2
SPEAKER_02
You know, they don t believe in what we believe in, there s probably not gonna be the right fit.
2
SPEAKER_02
They could be a great human being a great individual, just not be right for us.
2
SPEAKER_03
Do you ever take a break?
2
SPEAKER_03
Have you ever taken a break?
2
SPEAKER_03
To me, I don t understand work-life balance.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s just, it s not who I am.
2
SPEAKER_02
So I m not going to apologize for it.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I know I sound like if people could listen to say like this guy s a little bit deranged and, but I am who I am.
2
SPEAKER_02
I know, like, I know what I m good at and I know what I like doing.
2
SPEAKER_03
I mean, it may shock you, but I fully relate to it.
2
SPEAKER_03
Like to me, it s, I, you know, I think people,
2
SPEAKER_02
I appreciate it.
2
SPEAKER_03
I m trying to get more people to not look at me like I m crazy.
2
SPEAKER_03
And I would agree with you.
2
SPEAKER_03
I feel exactly the same way.
2
SPEAKER_03
Like this week, and this is my average normal week, I have morning hikes where I m out with people that I work with.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I love them and I enjoy their company.
3
SPEAKER_00
They re not people I have to work with, they re people I enjoy working with.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I m having a hike meeting in the morning, which is, you know, 7.30am.
3
SPEAKER_00
Then I m at work, whether I m doing this or whatever I m up to, whether I m recording meditation.
3
SPEAKER_00
So sometimes I m alone in a studio and sometimes I m with people.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then I have meetings, and then I ve been having dinner meetings too, and I love it.
3
SPEAKER_00
I wouldn t have it any other way.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve had the best interactions.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m getting to know the best people.
3
SPEAKER_00
I know their families.
3
SPEAKER_00
I know they re getting to know their kids, their spouses, whatever it is.
3
SPEAKER_00
And to me, it s like, this is what I want life to be.
3
SPEAKER_00
I actually don t look at life as work and life.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, I don t have that disconnect.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I actually think that when you look at life as a disconnect, that s when you think you re taking away from the other.
3
SPEAKER_00
And that s what creates friction.
3
SPEAKER_01
I also think if you do what you love to do, it almost breaks those barriers down.
3
SPEAKER_00
Totally, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I m actually more on your side than people may think.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m a big fan of having my daily routines and habits that make me the best version of myself.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like obviously meditation, working out, there are certain non-negotiables.
3
SPEAKER_00
Are there things in your day that you do that are your routines that may not be those things but things that you re like, you know, this one thing that I do per day, this makes me feel great.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s probably centered around work, if I m going to be honest with you.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I was always pleasantly plump until Mon Giorno came out.
3
SPEAKER_01
So now that Mon Giorno s came out, I ve gone from 210 to 160.
3
SPEAKER_01
I d say working out is more important to me.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, when you re 210, it s harder to work out.
3
SPEAKER_01
When you re 160, it s much easier to work out.
3
SPEAKER_01
So you live here in the top of Runyon.
3
SPEAKER_01
And, you know, for me, you know, kind of hiking to the top of Runyon, you know, I ve done that
3
SPEAKER_01
once already this week, I m going to do it again tomorrow.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like I love doing it.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like it s a, it s a blast for me.
3
SPEAKER_01
Working out is actually something that is becoming good for me because it s the one thing that lets me get a little bit of a mental break.
3
SPEAKER_01
Putting my phone down sometimes, I can be so addicted to my phone.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s just like, I just need like, sometimes at dinner when, you know, my family has dinner, just like put my phone down for 20 minutes.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s a good thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I d say
3
SPEAKER_01
Things that have helped me of late have been, you know, getting those three to four workouts in per week, because it does give me some mental clarity.
3
SPEAKER_01
I d say putting my phone down 20 or 30 minutes a day, when I m just not going to look at it and say, okay, like, give me a mental break, because I think you could just become so obsessed, that it s almost it s bad for you.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then you become less effective.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Um, probably the biggest routine I have, if we say like, let s keep it real, it s going to be the people that I work close with.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s talking to them all the time.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m always just like peeling the layers back on what we re doing.
3
SPEAKER_01
So like any of my, you know, top leaders I m on the phone with on Zooms with meeting with in person all the time, because that s the way we re just like building the best business.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, absolutely.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I do believe that it s what it takes for the level of success that you ve achieved.
3
SPEAKER_00
I wonder, you know, if you Google your net worth, it says 11 billion, it could be more, probably is.
3
SPEAKER_00
How do you define how much you re worth?
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t.
3
SPEAKER_01
I ll tell you a story I probably shouldn t say.
3
SPEAKER_01
God, this is blowing somebody up.
3
SPEAKER_01
I shouldn t blow up.
3
SPEAKER_01
Forbes reached out and they said, hey, we want to put you on the cover of Forbes for the Forbes 400.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m like, no, I don t want to be known for my net worth.
3
SPEAKER_01
I want to be known for building a great company.
3
SPEAKER_01
By the way, there s so many things with our company that we suck at that we need to be better at.
3
SPEAKER_01
The way I look at it is
3
SPEAKER_01
I m a big startup and I want to make sure that I m always fighting to be better in everything we do.
3
SPEAKER_01
And in everything we do, I want to build what we make better for the fan.
3
SPEAKER_01
And we have so much to do to accomplish that.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I don t want to be known about money.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t want to be known.
3
SPEAKER_01
I want to be known about making the world a better place and making my company better.
3
SPEAKER_01
Those are honestly, you know, the two things I m maniacally focused on.
3
SPEAKER_00
I believe it.
3
SPEAKER_00
I genuinely do.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m not in a competition.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s irrelevant.
3
SPEAKER_01
My life is not changing financially based on anything that happens going forward.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m fortunate that I m in a nice position today.
3
SPEAKER_01
The thing that gets me most exciting is winning in business because that s my sport.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s what I m good at.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so I look at each business and I look at not all the things we do right.
3
SPEAKER_01
I look at all the things we do wrong and all the things we can be better at.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so I m always saying, how can we improve in everything we do?
3
SPEAKER_01
Because guess what?
3
SPEAKER_01
There are a lot of things we need to be a lot better at.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that s what I m focused on.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then, you know, up front, you talked about kind of giving back is interesting.
3
SPEAKER_01
I never, ever
3
SPEAKER_01
cared about making a difference in the world until I had an event in 2017 that changed my perspective.
3
SPEAKER_01
Before that, I would just always write checks.
3
SPEAKER_01
You came and said, hey, I m doing this.
3
SPEAKER_01
Hey, let me give you a check to shut you up as quickly as I could because I didn t care.
3
SPEAKER_01
I just want to focus on work.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then my eyes got open, which is what people say, like, hey, should I be behind this?
3
SPEAKER_01
I said, do what s authentic, do what s real.
3
SPEAKER_01
And, you know, for me, that s kind of how my life has kind of, you know, evolved.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and why was it, I believe it was Meek Mill who introduced you to criminal justice?
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, everyone knows the story at this point.
3
SPEAKER_01
Meek got sent to prison for two to four years for popping a wheelie on a motorcycle.
3
SPEAKER_01
The smartest thing he did for both of us was say, hey, can you come to court with me that day?
3
SPEAKER_01
I want you to see what happens when a black person goes to court.
3
SPEAKER_01
I didn t even understand what he was saying.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then I watched him get sent to prison for two to four years for not committing a crime, for popping a wheelie on a motorcycle.
3
SPEAKER_01
That was the most uncomfortable
3
SPEAKER_01
thing that s ever happened to my body because it was like, I m used to being in control.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m a strong business leader.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m used to leading.
3
SPEAKER_01
And now I had a judge who sent him to prison for two to four years for not committing a crime for popping a wheel on a motorcycle.
3
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And it was like the most out of body experience I ever had.
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And so once he ultimately got out of prison and we started the Reform Alliance, you know, for me,
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You know, I learned a really valuable lesson because a lot of people told me, don t get involved with this.
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Don t get involved with him.
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You re going to hurt your business.
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You re going to hurt the Sixers.
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And I just went with my instincts, which is like, this is my brother and like, he needs help.
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And by the way, Jay-Z and Desiree Perez from Roc Nation stepped up in a huge way.
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Like, you know, it was, it was kind of us collectively, but like, I ve had a couple experiences in the last,
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four or five years where we ve done things where people told us would be bad for business, bad for us.
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And we didn t care.
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We do what we thought was the right thing.
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And you always get paid back in karma.
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Like that is something I ve learned in the last five years.
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Probably the biggest thing I ve learned in the last five years.
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You know, don t worry about what people tell you is going to be the right outcome.
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You do what you think is right.
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If you do what s right, you know, it generally works out.
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Yeah no and I m glad you repeat that story there may be some of our audience who may or may not be aware so thank you for sharing that but and I wanted them to hear it from you because it is it s so interesting when something becomes so personal when it happens to someone that s so close to you the issue almost becomes so much more relatable and easy to access for you what have been some of the most like I loved what you said like the moment you walked in here I was telling you how much
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I ve appreciated the impact work you re doing and you re like, we re not doing it fast enough, there s more to do, you know.
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And I love that, like that s exactly the energy you need to have.
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So walk me through the wins that have been there that have shown you that you re doing the right thing and then walk me through what are the issues that you re still trying to solve and figure out.
3
SPEAKER_05
Guess what, Mango?
3
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What s that, Will?
3
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So iHeart is giving us a whole minute to promote our podcast, Part-Time Genius.
3
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I know.
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That s why I spent my whole week composing a haiku for the occasion.
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It s about my emotional journey in podcasting over the last seven years, and it s called Earthquake House.
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Mango, I m going to cut you off right there.
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Why don t we just tell people about our show instead?
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SPEAKER_04
Yeah, that s a better idea.
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So every week on Part-Time Genius, we feed our curiosity by answering the world s most important questions.
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Things like, when did America start dialing 911?
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Is William Shatner s best acting work in Esperanto?
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Also, what happened to Esperanto?
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Plus, we cover questions like how Chinese is your Chinese food?
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How do dollar stores stay in business?
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And of course, is there an Illuminati of cheese?
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There absolutely is.
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And we are risking our lives by talking about it.
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But if you love mind-blowing facts, incredible history and really bad jokes, make your brains happy and tune in to Part-Time Genius.
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Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
3
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Hey, it s me, Blippi, and this is my best friend, Mika.
3
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Hi, I m Mika, and this is our brand new podcast, Blippi and Mika s Road Trip.
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The Blippi Mobile will take us to amazing places.
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We ll explore and listen to the sounds of awesome places like farms, racetracks,
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and even construction sites!
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Follow your ears, what do you hear?
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And we ll meet new friends along the way!
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They ll teach us awesome new things about the places and things we see and hear!
3
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What did we learn today?
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Hey, it s so cool!
3
SPEAKER_06
Listen to Blippi and Mika s Road Trip Podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
3
SPEAKER_03
Hey, everybody, welcome to Across Generations, where the voices of Black women unite in powerful conversations.
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I m your host, Tiffany Cross.
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Tiffany Cross.
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I want you all to join me and be a part of sisterhood, friendship, wisdom and laughter.
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In every episode, we gather a seasoned elder.
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But even with a child, there s no such thing as the wrong thing if you love them.
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Myself, as the middle generation.
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I don t feel like I have to get married at this big age in life, but it is a desire I have and something that I ve navigated in dating.
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And a vibrant young soul for engaging intergenerational conversations.
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I m very jealous of your generation that didn t have to deal with Instagram and Tinder.
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This is Across Generations, where Black women s voices unite
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And together, you know how we do, we create magic.
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Listen to Across Generations podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Well, look, the interesting thing was when me got sent to prison,
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in November 2017, just about everybody I knew said, do not get involved in this, this will reflect poorly on the Sixers, this will reflect poorly on Fanatics, less people will buy tickets, and they re gonna see you helping a criminal.
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And so, Desiree Perez from Roc Nation, myself, we spent a lot of the next six months working every day to get him out of prison, and once we got him out of prison, Meek said to me, and I said to Meek, look,
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This is destiny, man.
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You got sent to prison because you were the one anointed to help fix the system.
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If you would have asked me before November 12th, 2017, when he got sent to prison, if you would have said to me, what do I care about from a charity perspective?
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It was writing checks to get people out of my office as quickly as possible.
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I did not care about any issues.
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But what Meek used to always say to me, Michael, this is a normal day for black America.
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And so, you know, that he had been sent to prison for a technical probation violation, it was easy for us to say, we have to change the probation and parole system.
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That s what we set out to do.
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The interesting thing was, when we finally decided to do this, which was, I guess, finally, when we did it immediately, I was trying to figure out how to come up with a goal.
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Because to me, you have to come up with big, bold goals.
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And this speaks to entrepreneurialism and not taking a kind of charitable approach to things.
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I asked a friend of mine who I don t want to name, but someone I have huge respect for.
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I said, you know, how many people should we try to get out of probation parole?
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They said, well, how many people in the system?
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I said, four and a half million.
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They said, well, go with 10,000.
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That s a really safe number.
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I said, 10,000, let s go for a million.
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So we re in this less than five years, we ve passed 17 bills in 11 states and created a pathway for 700,000 people to get off of probation and parole who shouldn t be on it.
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And by the way, there were four and a half million people on probation and parole when we started, there s 3.8 million people today.
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And what s proven, this is really important to understand, if you keep someone on probation or parole too long, you entrap them in the criminal justice system, and then what you do is you actually create a less safe outcome
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for neighborhoods and for environments, versus if people serve their time, have the appropriate amount of rehabilitation, you know, they re on probation for the right amount of time, then they re going to go out, they re going to make, you know, a positive impact in the world.
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So Meek had been on probation between the time served and time left.
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18 years.
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Now in California, where we re doing this today, the governor signed it in one of the first bills that we did with Gavin Newsom, which was amazing, is a one-year cap on misdemeanor and a two-year cap on felonies.
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And that was like breakthrough legislation that we worked on together, you know, with many people to bring together to make that happen in the state of California.
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It was one of the best things we ve done at the Reform Alliance.
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So my point is like- That s huge.
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We turn this negative into a positive,
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We then came up with a really bold goal that people thought we were nuts.
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When I told people a million people, everyone looked at me like I have seven heads, but I m like, what s the worst that happens?
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So we get 300,000 people, 400,000 people.
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I ll still think we won.
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I don t care.
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You want to say we failed because we didn t get the million?
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And by the way, now we re going to surpass the million, I think.
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Wow, that s incredible.
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And you re so right.
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Most of us, when we set a bold goal, whether it s to make an impact or whether it s in business, we re actually just worrying about what everyone will think if we don t hit that goal.
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So I m going to give you a great example.
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So today at Fanatics,
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You know, we ve built a pretty big business in our commerce business, which is merchandise.
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That s where I started.
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That s where a lot of people know us from.
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By the way, we still have so much to do to be better, so many things to improve the consumer experience, to innovate more product.
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We re a leader in that business, in the collectibles business.
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We re a real leader today.
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In the online sports betting and iGaming business, we re just starting, okay?
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We re going to be, Fanatic Sportsbook just launched earlier this year, we ll be basically in just about every legal state by the end of this year under the Fanatics brand with One Wallet.
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I woke up and our guys, we talk about being number three, like, you know, hey, FanDuel s number one, DraftKings number two, we re number three.
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And, you know, sorry, we aspired to be number three.
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Today we re like number eight.
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We re just starting.
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And I woke up about three weeks ago and I called our CEO, Matt King, who s amazing.
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I said, Matt, like we got, our goal needs to be number one.
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By the way, maybe we ll accomplish it.
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Maybe we won t.
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Maybe we won t be successful at all.
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Like the jury s out.
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We re investing a billion and a half dollars to try to be the top player.
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Okay.
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But like, I don t want to play for number three.
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Number three is a loser.
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I want to play for number one.
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And so many people are going to say to me, so many people listening to this would be like,
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Wait, you want to be number one to FanDuel and DraftKings in online sports betting and iGaming?
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I m declaring right now, it s the first time I ve publicly said this, I want to be number one.
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I have no idea whether I have any chance of that accomplishing, but I can tell you what, I m not waking up to try to be number three.
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That s a loser.
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And that s what s got you here.
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So you feel convinced that that s what it was.
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Do you remember the first big goal you ever set?
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I do.
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In 2009, I made a goal.
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I said to all of our team, I said that I want to build, we were $250 million in revenue, 2010.
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I said, one day we could be a billion dollars in revenue.
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That division s six billion dollars today, okay?
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I said, one day we could be a billion dollars, okay?
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Then, four years later, we said, one day we could be five billion dollars, okay?
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And we were only just trying to come up with goals for just like, to try to measure, you know, success or failure.
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But I love coming up with bold goals, and I don t care whether I accomplish them or fail.
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I care about coming up with bold goals to work against, and then making huge progress against them, whether I accomplish them or not.
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Yeah, the point is you re more likely to challenge yourself enough to come up with better strategies, more products, better customer service.
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Like you re actually just going to improve drastically towards that level.
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If you set goals that are easy to accomplish, then you re actually saying you want to fail to start with.
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If you come up with bold goals and by it s easier, look, I know what people are going to say, I m an owner.
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It s easier to say that as an owner.
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Okay.
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And maybe sometimes you just need to set goals up that you d say to yourself, cause you don t want to tell your boss that goal always.
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Okay.
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Or you tell your boss, here s the budgeting goal I m giving you, but now let me tell you the real goal that I have.
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Okay.
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And so I like rallying people against big, audacious, you know, hard to achieve goals because I think you re just going to accomplish more.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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How does this energy convert over to Michael s love life?
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How does Michael in love change from Michael in business?
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You have to ask Camille that.
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I think what Camille would say is she s incredibly supportive of what I do.
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She knows it s what I love doing.
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She s the most incredible mother on the planet.
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I have a 17-year-old daughter, then I have a 3-year-old and a 1-year-old with Camille.
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You know, she puts as much energy as I put into work.
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She puts into being a mom.
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And I think that s what makes us great together.
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Would I say that, you know, I m always the most available person?
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No.
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Does she want to, you know, kill me multiple times a week?
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Probably yes.
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But she also knows this is what makes me me and what I love to do.
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And, you know, she loves being the greatest mom in the world.
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We have a great relationship.
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But, you know, would you call my personal life or our personal life perfect?
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Definitely not, because I work like an animal.
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No, of course not, of course not.
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No one has the perfect personal or professional life.
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But did you, the reason why I ask is, you know, it s really interesting.
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I always feel like, you know, so much can be solved at the point of connection.
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What I mean by that is, I, you know, my wife s a busy person, I m a busy person, but I ve, you know, I was saying to some of my team the other day, I m really grateful that my wife has never said to me in the last 10 years that we ve been together, you don t spend enough time with me.
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It s because she knows who I am, she understands how I work, she knows I make time, I am present when I m there, but she gets me, like she really gets me and she got me when we got together.
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Yes, I was very not successful when we met, but she gets me and she s seen that energy grow and so she loves the time.
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And by the way, I don t say the same to her either.
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She never hears from me, like you don t spend enough time with me or you re not around.
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If she s busy and she has to move.
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Did you know that when you met Camille?
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How did you set that up?
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How did that become real?
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How did she get to know you that well?
4
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Because I feel like for a lot of people, the way you work, the way I work, the way certain people work, it would be unbearable and it would be a deal breaker, but then it s really hard to also have an amazing life and build everything you want to build, right?
4
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So how did you, I m just intrigued as to how you had that conversation early days.
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Yeah, I m not sure if we had the conversation and it kind of just grew into what it is.
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I think the same thing for Camille or my older daughter, Kylie.
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They would both say they wish that I were more available, more present, but they also respect and learn from my work ethic and what I do.
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And I think, you know, it kind of works itself out in the end, but, you know, different than you.
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I do hear from both Camille and Kylie, you know, you don t have enough time for me.
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You re not available enough.
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And sometimes that s a really good priority.
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Like, okay, you know,
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put your phone down and turn the ringer off for a half an hour.
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You know, you don t always need to grab every call.
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And you know what, what my older daughter would always say to me, Kylie is like, dad, it s always somebody important.
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I m your oldest daughter.
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And Camille would say to me, you know, it s me, like, just let it go for a little bit.
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So they actually helped me, whatever little balance I have, I think I get from Camille and Kylie.
4
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I loved what you said.
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Like, you know, sometimes they say I need more time, but they also respect me.
4
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How do you
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reconcile that kind of dad guilt that could come with that or, and a lot of, I m not a father yet, but a lot of my friends who are, they ll say, it s so painful watching your little girl.
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My, my friends who have little girls will say, it s so painful watching a little girl say, daddy, just stay at home with me today.
4
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Right.
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Like, how are you, how do you reconcile?
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Like, this is good for them to see me work hard.
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And I know when to like put my phone down, but how do you, how do you make sense with that?
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Well, the good thing is my three year old and one year old have grown up with me like this.
5
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So, and so did Kylie, by the way.
5
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So they ve all seen that work ethic.
5
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Look, Kylie is, everyone knows my 17 year old is with me, you know, all the time.
5
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She travels with me all the time.
5
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She s actually on a plane right now.
5
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She s about to land here in a few hours.
5
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So, you know, you know, she s with me a lot.
5
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She s got a great, you know, Kylie and Camille have a great relationship that they may have a support group, you know, together for the two of them against me.
5
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Um,
5
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Every family s different.
5
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Every person s different.
5
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Everyone needs to do what works for them.
5
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And I think I do what works for me and they do what works for them.
5
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And I think they appreciate it.
5
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I also know to be there when it really matters.
5
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And so for me, Kylie went through an experience earlier this year and she called me and it had to do with college.
5
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She s like cursing me out.
5
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She s like,
5
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Like I need you to help me figure this out right now.
5
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And it s about like, get you good.
5
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Cause Kylie s much smarter than me, but she s not like, you know, she goes to the toughest school in Philadelphia and she like, she wanted like some help with certain things.
5
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And like, I had to call around and figure out how to do that and learn and pull the layers back and ultimately figure it out together.
5
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It s like, when it really matters, like I m always there and I m good at figuring out what matters and what doesn t.
5
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And so I think that could be a superpower I have, which is how to prioritize.
5
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I am good at figuring out when am I really need it?
5
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When do I need to like, you know,
5
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lock in and focus.
5
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It could be lock in and focus on a really important business deal, or it could be lock in and focus on a really important moment for Camille or for Kylie.
5
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Yeah.
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What your daughters do for you, my sister does for me, she ll always be like, stop being Jay Shetty, just be my brother.
5
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Like, you know, it s like that feeling of like, stop giving me that advice, just be my brother and like give me a hug.
5
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Yeah, I get that from both of them all the time.
5
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My three year old, Romy, will I m sure be giving me that like within a year or two.
5
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And it s the best feeling, right?
5
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It s such a beautiful feeling because you know someone loves you and wants you to just be there for them.
5
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It s getting those moments which you can really appreciate.
5
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So, you know, I try to get them when I can.
5
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Yeah, and Michael, that s what I m trying to do on this podcast here.
5
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You know, I don t think there is an ideal way to live.
5
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I don t think there is a perfect way to approach your problems.
5
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I think that what I like to do is I like to introduce people.
5
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This is kind of my whole hypothesis in life.
5
SPEAKER_04
If I can introduce people to as many diverse people as possible,
5
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that have all in their own way found purpose, impact and success.
5
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Then people actually have a chance of saying, I like what they re saying, I m going to run with that.
5
SPEAKER_04
Or actually, you know what, I never thought about it like that, because I find when I was growing up, we were all exposed to the same set of people.
5
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and the same set of ideas, and it was so hard to break that.
5
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And it was only for me, obviously, which is my personal journey.
5
SPEAKER_04
When I met a monk at 18, I didn t know what monks were.
5
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I didn t care what monks were.
5
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I had no interest in anything spiritual.
5
SPEAKER_04
If I d never met a monk, I would never have gone down the path of life I did.
5
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And so I m always asking people, who s your monk?
5
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And for some people, their monk will be you.
5
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And what I mean by that is they re going to get introduced to you and go, yeah, that s how I want to live my life.
5
SPEAKER_04
That resonates with me.
5
SPEAKER_04
makes sense.
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It makes complete sense.
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I m a huge believer in it.
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And I have, look, if you d say what s the most unique thing about me, it s probably the diversification of the people around me.
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And I think I built that because it s right for me, because I m learning from all these people around me.
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And so I ve got this person, actually, it s a person who owns a local hobby shop.
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And he keeps sending me these really long text messages.
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And I actually keep meaning to send back a voice note to say, hey, man, I actually appreciate your input, but I barely read.
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I m not that literate.
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You re laughing.
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I m dead serious.
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I haven t read a book since ninth grade.
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The last book I read was in ninth grade.
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I read The Swoosh, the unauthorized story about Phil Knight.
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SPEAKER_03
It s not the last time I read a book, okay?
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So I m not a good reader.
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I m pretty dyslexic, okay?
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So the way I learn is by quick conversations.
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You want me to read something, send me three lines and I m actually gonna read it.
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You send me three paragraphs, I m tuned out before I start.
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So that s why I m saying we all gotta learn from each other what works for each other and that s what makes me me.
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Absolutely.
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Michael, you ve been amazing.
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We end every episode with a final five.
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You ll like this.
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Each question has to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.
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So it goes aligned with what you just said.
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So Michael Rubin, these are your final five.
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Question one is, what is the best entrepreneurship advice you ve ever heard or received?
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Don t be afraid to fail.
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Because?
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Because if you re afraid to fail, you re never going to take the shot.
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Like how do you want to be an entrepreneur?
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You re sitting there and you re trying to figure out
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Like, should I do this or not?
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Like, you gotta go for it.
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Second question, what is the worst entrepreneurship advice you ve ever heard or received?
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Do it for the money.
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All right, question number three.
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What s something you re currently trying to learn, maybe in business or in life, something you re working on?
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how to do what s best for the consumer in everything that we do.
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Like just complete consumer focus.
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I didn t grow up as a complete consumer person.
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So I think there s things, if I look at parts of fanatics where we re not good enough, we haven t been good enough, I d say it s an obsession with the consumer.
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Yeah, that s what I always loved about, I still love it today.
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Like when I grew up, I remember the first time my parents took me to Disney World.
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And I was just like, everything about this place is like perfectly organized for me to have the best time of my life.
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And it s insane how much detail you can put into someone s experience.
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Yeah, I think we got our business model right.
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Everything I do has to be about the consumer.
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To win in a consumer business, it has to be about consumer first in everything you do.
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That s something that I ve, that I m really, it s the biggest thing I m focused on right now.
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Yeah, I love that.
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That s beautiful.
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All right, question number four.
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How would you define your current purpose with your impact work?
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Real change, like to make real change, not like, like so many people who make impact work, they write, first of all, writing a check is easy.
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Okay, if you have money, writing a check is easy.
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Don t think because you give money away that you re making a difference, like go do the work.
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Okay, but making real change, like measure the results, treat it like a business, not like, you know, a charity.
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Like, we don t want to run the reform alliance.
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like a charity.
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We want business results.
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Beautiful.
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Fifth and final question.
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We ask this to every guest who s ever been on the show.
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If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
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I couldn t be president after 65.
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I want the president of the United States to be an animal from a work ethic perspective.
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I want them to be on their A-game.
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I want to make sure that they re maniacal about the country the way I m maniacal about my business.
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One law to go in place.
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Max, you can t be elected to become president after 65 years old.
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Michael Rubin, everyone.
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If you ve been listening and watching, make sure that you cut the clips for TikTok and Instagram that related to you, insights that you loved.
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SPEAKER_04
Share them.
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SPEAKER_04
I love knowing what are the lessons you re taking away.
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What are you practicing?
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What are you implementing and putting into your life?
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I think everyone s got the best pep talk that they need.
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SPEAKER_04
for right now in their life.
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SPEAKER_04
This is going to get you to those big goals.
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SPEAKER_04
Listen to this episode, share it with your friends, share it with your family.
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I m sure someone just needs a train to come run through their mind and break through all of the barriers that they ve set up.
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I think Michael s that train.
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Michael, thank you so much.
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Or by the way, disagree with us.
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Or disagree with us.
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Tell me what you don t agree with.
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By the way, I love when you disagree with me too.
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Yeah, yeah, totally, of course.
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If you disagree with us, you can tell us too.
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You ll do that anyway.
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SPEAKER_04
I don t need to ask for that.
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Hey, thanks for having me.
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It was a blast.
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Thank you, Michael.
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Such a blast.
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I appreciate you, man.
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And thank you for being so.
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What I appreciate about you is your clarity.
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your commitment to that clarity, and that you re still open and available to learn.
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I think that curiosity, that s what I see in you.
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It s like complete clarity, complete commitment to who you are, and then still being curious.
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That s a deadly combination, so thank you.
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Thank you, well said, and I m going to try to preach it and do it every day.
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Thank you, man, thank you.
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If you love this episode, you ll love my interview with Kobe Bryant on how to be strategic and obsessive to find your purpose.
5
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Our children have become less imaginative about how to problem solve, and parents and coaches have become more directive in trying to tell them how to behave versus teaching them how to behave.
5
SPEAKER_04
I couldn t be more excited to share something truly special with all you tea lovers out there.
5
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And even if you don t love tea, if you love refreshing, rejuvenating, refueling sodas that are good for you, listen to this.
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Radhi and I poured our hearts into creating Juni Sparkling Tea with Adaptogens for you because we believe in nurturing your body and with every sip, you ll experience calmness of mind, a refreshing vitality and a burst of brightness to your day.
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Juni is infused with adaptogens that are amazing natural substances that act like superheroes for your body to help you adapt to stress and find balance in your busy life.
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Our Super 5 blend of these powerful ingredients include green tea, ashwagandha,
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acerola cherry, and lion s mane mushroom, and these may help boost your metabolism, give you a natural kick of caffeine, combat stress, pack your body with antioxidants, and stimulate brain function.
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Even better, Juni has zero sugar and only 5 calories per can.
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We believe in nurturing and energizing your body while enjoying a truly delicious and refreshing drink.
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SPEAKER_04
So visit drinkjuni.com today to elevate your wellness journey and use code ONPURPOSE to receive 15% off your first order.
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That s drinkjuni.com and make sure you use the code ONPURPOSE.
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Discover a new educational and interactive podcast, Stories for Kids by Lingokids.
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SPEAKER_02
Our episodes are packed with fun activities.
5
SPEAKER_02
Right, Elliot?
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yes.
5
SPEAKER_01
We went shape hunting around the block, and we found spheres and cubes on the street.
5
SPEAKER_01
That was great fun.
5
SPEAKER_02
Join Stories for Kids, the Lingokids podcast, inspiring you to learn while having fun.
5
SPEAKER_02
Listen to Stories for Kids on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
6
SPEAKER_03
Hey, everybody, welcome to Across Generations, where the voices of Black women unite.
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I m your host, Tiffany Cross.
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Join me and be a part of sisterhood, friendship, wisdom, and laughter.
6
SPEAKER_03
We gather a seasoned elder, myself as the middle generation, and a vibrant young soul for engaging intergenerational conversations, prepare to engage or hear perspectives that literally no one else has had.
6
SPEAKER_03
Listen to Across Generations podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
6
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The Black Effect presents Family Therapy, and I m your host, Elliot Connick.
6
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Jay is the woman in this dynamic who is currently co-parenting two young boys with her former partner, David.
6
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David, he is a leader.
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He just don t want to leave me.
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SPEAKER_01
But how do you lead a woman?
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SPEAKER_01
How do you lead in a relationship?
6
SPEAKER_01
Like, what s the blue part?
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David, you just asked the most important question.
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Listen to Family Therapy on the Black Effect podcast network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.