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Welcome to this special masterclass.
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We ve brought some of the top experts in the world to help you unlock the power of your life through this specific theme today.
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It s going to be powerful.
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So let s go ahead and dive in.
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There s more ways to make money than ever before.
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There s more side hustles, side gigs, creative endeavors that people can do to make money.
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What was the actual moment where you broke the generational conditioning around scarcity and unlocked it into abundance for you, where it converted into money entering your hands and your bank account?
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I think it s weird because I was a screen clerk.
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I think I was making like $16,000 a year.
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you know, and then driving a limo at night to make ends meet.
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And my roommate at the time was a waiter and he was making like $77,000 a year.
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And I was thinking, I can always wait tables.
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But I wasn t in it for the 16,000, right?
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I was in it for a career path to really make a bunch of money.
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And so that s a kind of weird thing.
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And I was just kind of like, if I lose my ego, which I had no ego back then, I was driving a limo at night.
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I was like, if I lose my ego, I can always get a job.
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I can always get a job.
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I m not gonna be completely busted, right?
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I might be poor, and I ve been broke before, and I m okay with that, and I ve had great times, right?
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Like, you know, I have good friends, we goof off, do whatever, but it gave me kind of this freedom.
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Like, there s this safety net of like, I will be able to find something.
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I remember one of the FCMs, I worked for this guy named Mark and he was like, I used to be a garbage driver.
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If they shut this place down, I can always drive a garbage truck.
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You know what I mean?
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You know, if I lose my ego about, like, I m too proud to do this job, right, then I shouldn t always go work.
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You know, there s way more jobs and way more opportunities.
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And I don t have the fear of, like, moving to another place to get the job or going to another place, et cetera.
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You know, it s painful for a lot of people.
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And people have the fear of going into a new environment and moving, which I think limits them to only local opportunities.
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But for me, I was like, I ll go anywhere for the opportunity.
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I ll go to Siberia.
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I was one of those dumb, young, ambitious people that were like, put me on the moon, I will trade.
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And so when I got the chance, I was in New York City, I left, didn t know anybody, had a mattress and an empty room, and I ll be there.
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Sir, yes, sir, let s go.
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And if that didn t work out, so what?
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I had an adventure.
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I want the scars.
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A life with no mistakes, to me, is an uninteresting life.
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An unfulfilling life, actually.
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You haven t touched your limits.
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You don t know what your limits are because you never failed.
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If everything s always working out and you fail, it s like, well, you never touched your limits.
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You never really sent this thing until you run so hard where you throw up and you re about to pass out, which, you know, I did in college when they used to make you run, you know, back and forth.
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You don t know your limits, right?
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Like you don t know when you re struggling with the weights, right?
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Like physically, but like also emotionally, like until you ve said, I love you first and you ve gone through the break and you ve done everything you can for the relationship.
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Like you just don t know, like this is,
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as much as I can give in a relationship.
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This is as much as I can do.
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This is as far as I can go figuring out this business.
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I need to bring in help or partners or whatever.
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All those things.
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And so, wanting a fulfilling ride is the goal.
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Right?
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Literally, the money.
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The money is only a tool to get the fulfillment.
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Now, I have fancy fulfillment things, right?
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And I am learning how to use that tool to drive my fulfillment.
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But I m also learning, hey, from other professionals and other verticals in the health, like, how do I optimize my health?
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There s time management books.
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How do I optimize my time?
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And then even in the wealth bucket, there s like,
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How do I get the better deal to get the same experience and the same fulfillment points when I go to Greece?
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No, don t do that hotel, get the Airbnb, it ll be nicer and you actually have more fulfillment and it ll be cheaper and you have more money for the trip to Japan, right?
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So I m just saying, at the macro level, this is how these things interact and this is how you should be thinking about the arc of your life, but then you can go into each vertical and sub-optimize.
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Yes, absolutely.
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But what was that psychological moment for you where you realized, oh, I m actually good at making money?
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Oh, wow.
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And not like, OK, I m making 16 grand a year and I m working a nice, you know, driving a limo.
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And but actually I m breaking through the generational conditioning that I live in scarcity to now I live in abundance or have the potential to live in abundance.
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How did you learn that you were worthy and deserving of more money?
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How did you learn that you were capable of generating?
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Wealth.
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Oh, wow.
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I don t know if I learned it or I just believed it and it became.
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So I always tell people, I think one of my advantages was that I was delusional.
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And so they re like, what do you mean?
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I was like, I believed I can do it.
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And that drove my decisions.
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Now, that didn t mean I was gonna be successful.
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I could ve easily believed I was done it and just never have done it, right?
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Tried a hundred times.
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Failed and broken, yeah.
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But the fact that I had that delusion and that belief that I can do it, that you could throw me in a desert and I d have a fighting chance, I d figure it out, I d drink my own pee, I d do whatever.
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You know what I mean?
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Right, right, right.
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Whatever it takes.
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Whatever it takes, I m just gonna do it.
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I had this delusion that I could do it.
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And because of that,
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Sometimes you gotta drink your pee if you re in the desert and you re dying of thirst, you know?
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Rehydrate.
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But, you know, eat the bugs, right?
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That delusion sent me in the course to try and to learn.
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And so when I was learning, it wasn t like I couldn t learn this or I couldn t learn options trading or whatever.
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It s like, I can do this.
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I can do this because I had this delusion.
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And so I think the belief
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is powerful.
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How d you get that belief?
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Most people don t believe in themselves enough to believe they re deserving and worthy of money, of wealth, of abundance.
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How did you get to believe you are deserving?
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Okay.
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So I had a very, uh,
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topsy-turvy relationship with my dad.
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He came from a different generation, hard-boiled, right?
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He was pre-civil rights.
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You know, dreams were squashed.
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It was openly squashed and legally squashed, right?
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Like in this.
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And I was born post-civil rights, okay?
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And so one of the things, and I don t want to turn this into a whole racial story, but one of the advantages of growing up in Jersey City being black is that
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people in that period, people talk about you.
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You re accused of this, why you re people like this, you know, you re inferior, you can t do this or whatever.
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And so what you develop, okay, the good side of that is you don t care what people think.
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You ve been trained.
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You know what s true about you and your people and your relatives or whatever?
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We re not bad people, we re not criminals, I m not whatever, I m not this, I m not inferior, I m not whatever.
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You just learned to brush that all off, right?
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And my dad was a badass.
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And he was like, you can do whatever.
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Look at all the adversity.
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we have to deal with and we overcome, right?
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And so that not giving a what people think and only listening to your dreams is a superpower forged in adversity, right?
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And so like, I just, you just, so, you know, a lot of people walk around like, I don t care what you think or whatever, and they re thinking this about whatever.
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I m just like, I don t give a, I don t give a. And like, I don t care, that s their problem, right?
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Like, and everybody cares a little bit, right?
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To the extent that people s thoughts will interfere with my priorities, I care more, right?
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But in general, on the not giving a scale, I m on the further scale because I grew up in a period where, you know, I was born in 69, right?
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There s, you know, racial attitudes going on.
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We re just coming out of the 60s, right?
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You know, being, having that,
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and then just having to deal with that prepares you for this period of like, I m not afraid to look like a fool.
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You guys thought I was a fool?
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You thought I was fool at birth, but on skin color.
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You thought I was inferior at birth on skin color.
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You thought this about me on skin color.
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So you just don t give a. And so my dad and the trainings of being a minority in a city during that time period prepared me for like,
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Who cares?
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I m already a fool.
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But some people who maybe have grown up in a lot of the similar adversities or worse or a little bit less adversities, they might
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might take that adversity and say, well, I don t have the skills, I m never going to be able to do this.
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And they stay stuck in that.
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They don t say, because of this adversity, I don t care and I m going to go for it.
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They say, because of this adversity, this is who I am.
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I think the victim story is marketed to people and if you don t take that victim story I think they would have the same experience as me.
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I don t want to go too deep in it but I would just say that I wasn t conscious.
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I just felt it.
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You know, you just had a pride, right?
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You re the underdog pride and it came.
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And I guess some people, they might have, you know, I was lucky.
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I had a father and a mother, right?
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Who, you know, two college educated parents, my dad via scholarship and my mom later on in life.
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And so if anybody was designed to succeed, it was me.
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But there were, you know, when I was led on my own and it s time for me to do it on my own or, you know,
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Who moves from New York City to Texas to go, you know, like the things, the decisions I made were kind of this like, it can be done.
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You know, when I had not that much experience, but I knew I can recruit people to build in to do this solar development project in the Nevada desert, right?
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And then sold it to Capital Dynamics, right?
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And made my friends and myself a good chunk of change.
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and also putting solar on the grid, it s just this belief that you can figure it out and you can do it.
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And so I guess that there are some people who get dealt the clouds of inferiority and it stunts them.
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And I would hope that somebody somewhere along the line flips it.
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for them you know flips it for him and said this is a badge of honor man like you you got nothing to lose right right you got you got nothing to lose you got no whatever nobody expects anything from you so when you no pressure no pressure no pressure this could be your greatest gift this could be your greatest gift and so for me i think it you know my greatest gift was like not giving and my willingness to look like a fool yeah like i m just winging life like everybody else
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winging it right and so uh and i m trying to figure things out and i m i i wrote this book for me and then i figured if i if i can you know save my own life like not waste my own life uh and and maybe it will be useful to other people yes right but occasionally
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I get somehow stuck on autopilot and I need to go back in a book or my wife needs to remind me, like, hey, hey, hey, let s think this through.
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Let s get off autopilot.
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Let s get off autopilot.
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You re doing these things.
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You re playing speed chess on life.
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How is this the most fulfilling thing for you to be doing in your life right now?
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It s not.
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I m deleting.
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Okay.
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You know what I mean?
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Things like that, right?
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There s more things that are deeper than that.
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that early experience and my dad gave me the confidence uh seeing him do it in much harder circumstances right much deeper clouds of inferiority uh much more hard knock like to look at that and then other people in life like i m like you know i go places and i get inspired by people who make it you know a lot of people
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you know, they, oh, well, they had this help, or they look for the thing that was the one piece of help, but they still overcame a lot.
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I m like, wow, I m pretty lazy.
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Like, if that person could do it, and look at all the advantages I have, you know, born in the United States of America, growing economy, growing population, jobs, technology, I just was born in such a great era.
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Like, I m like, I can ride this wave, I could surf this wave, I can do it.
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I m gonna surf this wave of life,
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and navigate it the way I want to go.
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And so I just had this delusional belief, and it happened to work out.
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That s amazing.
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You ve been around a ton of wealthy individuals, billionaires, mega billionaires.
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And you ve also been around a lot of broke people who are in a ton of debt or people who ve lost all their money.
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You ve seen both sides of the spectrum.
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From your perspective at this stage, what would you say are the three keys to really making more money and also being fulfilled with the money you have?
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Okay, so three keys to making more money.
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I would have to say that on the earning part, there s a lot of people who speak better to making more money, but I will speak just more in terms of psychology and belief, is this belief that you can and you re entitled.
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And so when you think you can, you read the book.
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You read the business book, you read the so-and-so, you make the attempt, et cetera.
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A lot of people will just sit in the stands,
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Not go up to bat, they won t take the chance.
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Not only will you take the swing, you ll strike out and you ll do it again, and you ll do it again, and you ll do it again.
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I was just talking with somebody on Twitter and like, oh yeah, and I break rep, and I was like, isn t it great that you re bankrupt and now you can still go out and earn and take another swing?
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Lose the ego attachment, get the out there and let s rip it again.
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And so that s what it is in America, right?
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Like there s so many people in failure stories and like Steve Jobs got fired and rehired, you know, like things like that, right?
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Like all these learnings that you get, like, wow, you went to school.
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This is expensive school, but you know, let s go.
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You got subject matter expertise.
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What s the next thing?
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What s the next dream on your plate?
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Yeah, and so when you believe you can you start to take actions that actually?
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Develop your ability to do it.
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Yes, and then and then so that that is one um the the the we ve already been talking about it you have to I
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You know, this is a saying like never tell your dreams to your parents that you want to do it because even though they love you, they saw you as a teenager and you didn t take out the garbage, right?
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So they re always like, oh, you sure you really want to do that?
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Is this a safe job?
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Like you have such a good thing going on.
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Like you can just get a job at the post office or whatever.
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Like they are afraid for you, right?
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To go on your adventure.
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They want to protect you.
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And they also seen you in your clown years.
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Not the new, bad, bald you, right?
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And then also, as much as your friends and maybe some of your peer group may love you or not,
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A lot of people behave out of fear.
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They don t want to look like an idiot.
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They had a great idea.
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They had a thing they want to do and they don t do it.
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They tried it and it failed or they don t want to do it again.
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So your success exposes their cowardice.
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Say it again?
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Your success exposes their cowardice.
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So when you go out and you fail, they re like, see?
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I m right not to go do that.
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See what he did?
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He went out and failed.
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See, I told him he shouldn t have done that.
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That was crazy.
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Why did he do that, right?
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So they feel comfortable in their safe life and they re powerless.
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They didn t go live their dreams or take the risk or whatever.
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But if you go succeed, they re like.
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I m a coward.
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Like I had a chance to do it.
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I could have done this.
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I could have been to work.
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I could have grinded for a year or two years with no reward, lived and eat ramen and been successful, right?
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So I always say people like success, but they love a failure, right?
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They love a failure because it reaffirms that they re doing the right thing and you re not cowards.
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And so be very, very careful
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about your mindset that you re getting from other people.
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And success is not just doing the thing and making it.
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Success is living a fulfilled life.
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It is about the ride.
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A lot of people say, oh, it s easy for you to say.
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Listen, I ve gone busted twice.
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I ve been fired, I ve been whatever, and it s been, that has been great.
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that has been great losing your money getting fired getting fired getting humiliated people talking behind your back you know what I mean oh he s a clown or he can t do this like it s part of it it s like I learned who my friends were and who weren t I know who my supporters were and who weren t I learned about myself like do I care or do I not care what things really upset me what mistakes did I what did I mistakes like where did I get lazy where did I get off track on vision
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You know, it s about that.
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It was great.
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And then, you know, here I am on this side of the coin, but like, still would have been great.
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You know, I did, I tried to do some huge project in Central America, went bust, vaporized $10 million.
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Learned a lot.
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Gone.
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like years time meetings whatever you know and and and it s gone i tried to do an importation project in california learned all about permitting in california the the interest groups etc gone the ride you know and and it wasn t it wasn t like now where i have a bunch of money it was like that was a very
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That was all your money.
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It was like, oh, we might have to cut back on staff here, Mr. Perkins.
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And so I think it s like really be careful about how you speak to yourself and the people you keep around you and who you share your dreams with.
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Wow, that s interesting.
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And the third thing?
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Oh man…the third thing…the third thing…consistency.
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Take it seriously.
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I hear a lot of people like they ll have an idea and they re about to go into the execution phase.
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So ideas are like a dime a dozen.
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Right?
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It, it, there s no market for ideas that I think Paul Graham says, right?
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You can t just go, I m going to sell you this idea.
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No, you can sell the business, you can sell the execution.
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So like 90 something percent of it is the execution and they go in the execution phase and they don t take it seriously.
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You know, this is your dream, this is your life.
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People take video games, simple things, party things more seriously than they ll take their dreams.
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And so if your dream is this business or this idea or some way of making money,
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And it could just be like showing up for work on time, right?
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It doesn t have to be this like, I m starting this entrepreneurial thing.
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It just be like, I want to be the best person being consistent and taking it seriously.
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Taking it very seriously.
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I think more money comes to you when you show the universe how consistent you are with what you care about.
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Use all your resources like as if your life depends on it.
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And the funny thing is,
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These are the hours of your life.
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So your life does depend on it.
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This is your life.
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This is the time period.
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And some people don t take, you know, I ll see guys come in with pitches or things.
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I m like, did you do this?
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Did you use this resource?
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Did you do whatever?
2
SPEAKER_01
It s not like they couldn t have thought of it.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s not like they couldn t have done it.
2
SPEAKER_01
They just didn t because they didn t take it seriously enough.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, so use all your resources at your disposal to drive your fulfillment.
2
SPEAKER_01
If your fulfillment is this job and making money or this idea, use all your resources at your disposal to make it happen and take it seriously.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I think a lot of people are, are flip it with their own dreams.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t know why.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think it, it comes down to the, um, I ve done it before too.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ve done it in school.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s one of those things where like you have this fear that you can t do well, so you don t try your best.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know what I mean?
2
SPEAKER_01
They re like, oh, I m afraid of failing, so I m just not going to do my best.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so when I failed, I didn t really try that hard.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know what I mean?
2
SPEAKER_01
I wasn t really trying to lift it that much.
2
SPEAKER_01
I wasn t really stretched out or whatever.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so you have this excuse that you didn t try hard, so that s why you failed.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so it makes your ego feel good.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I ve done that before, and I think other people do it too.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t know if these are the three keys.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t know what you could take out of that.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think it s something that people can take home with and see if that applies to them.
2
SPEAKER_02
There s been a lot of changes over the last few years with the financial world, with interest rates, with real estate, with people losing jobs, with whoever knows what s happening.
2
SPEAKER_02
How can we be prepared for what s to come financially, whether it s incredible financially or it s a nightmare financially?
2
SPEAKER_02
What can we do today to start being better prepared so that we are not as affected as we could be?
2
SPEAKER_00
I think diversification is really important.
2
SPEAKER_00
So that s making sure that you have that emergency fund, making sure that there s money you are investing in the stock market through index funds that are all diversified.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re not just buying one stock and being like, that s it.
2
SPEAKER_02
Roll the dice.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s not like that.
2
SPEAKER_00
You want to be really diversified.
2
SPEAKER_00
You want to be buying some bonds.
2
SPEAKER_00
You want to be buying equities.
2
SPEAKER_00
You want to consider maybe investing in real estate.
2
SPEAKER_00
Maybe that s buying an actual physical property or just investing in funds or something like that.
2
SPEAKER_00
I also think that there is a disconnect right now from a mindset perspective of a lot of people.
2
SPEAKER_00
not to get on this like rah-rah soapbox again but
2
SPEAKER_00
So many people now aspire to a life that, frankly, they will never be within their means.
2
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I say that, and I know it s harsh.
2
SPEAKER_00
But keeping up with the Joneses has become keeping up with the Kardashians.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because you have it all on your phone.
2
SPEAKER_00
You can see this immense amount of wealth that, like, in any other reality, like, before our parents  time, our grandparents  time, you were never able to see it.
2
SPEAKER_02
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
like people have always had yachts but now you see a yacht like every other day you re like apart for the course like this is great whatever like i should have a yacht too and so you ve got people spending money like it s going out of style to keep up and it doesn t make sense i know people who only take black cars i
2
SPEAKER_00
make seven figures a year, and I am ready to get into the Toyota Camry that picks me up.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, it s crazy to me that there is just, again,
2
SPEAKER_00
this almost like desire to like fake it till you make it of like you know this this trend of like de lulu like delusional like yes in some ways it s great because you want to apply for jobs that you re unqualified for you want to do things that are outside of your comfort zone but like
2
SPEAKER_00
That can also put you in a really precarious situation very quickly.
2
SPEAKER_02
Right.
2
SPEAKER_02
Is it possible for anyone to become wealthy or to become rich, or is it only for a certain mindset or a certain demographic of people?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think anybody who wants to have money, anybody who wants to have richness can get there.
2
SPEAKER_00
It certainly is not as easy as everyone on the internet makes it seem.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s not rah, rah, Amazon dropshipping, rah, rah, wholesale real estate, rah, rah, buy some life insurance, and you re good to go.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s just not it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think a big conversation that we don t talk about is proximity.
2
SPEAKER_00
In my life now, I have many rich friends.
2
SPEAKER_00
And those rich friends provide me additional rich opportunities.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I got to go to the US Open on a bank s dime because my fiance worked with a guy who is at an investment bank.
2
SPEAKER_00
And he had four tickets, took him, his wife, my fiance, and myself.
2
SPEAKER_00
Those tickets are thousands of dollars.
2
SPEAKER_00
They re very, very expensive.
2
SPEAKER_00
I have friends who had an incredible accountant, had a great team in terms of financials for business.
2
SPEAKER_00
And they were like, you should talk to my team.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s how I got hooked up with my business manager.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you don t have that proximity to people who have money, who ve done it, who played the playbook, how are you going to learn it?
2
SPEAKER_00
Because sure, if you are a young person growing up low income, and you want to make smart money decisions, work very hard in school, get good grades, do the American dream thing, and you go, you get to Harvard, OK?
2
SPEAKER_00
You get to Harvard, the rich kids still don t want to be friends with you.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because you can t afford to split the table at the club on Friday night.
2
SPEAKER_00
You can t afford to pay for the dues for your finals club or whatever they call it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, you don t have that money to get you there.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I think the process of becoming wealthy and becoming rich and having money
2
SPEAKER_00
It s available to anyone, but the trajectory and the timeline is very, very different where you start.
2
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
2
SPEAKER_02
So proximity alone isn t enough, is what I m hearing you say.
2
SPEAKER_02
Because you could have the grades or the skills and the proximity, but if you don t have the money still, then people may not.
2
SPEAKER_02
What are you saying?
2
SPEAKER_00
So I m saying that proximity makes it easier.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
So if you grow up rich,
2
SPEAKER_00
And your parents are very, very tough.
2
SPEAKER_00
And they re like, we re not leaving a penny to you guys.
2
SPEAKER_00
You still grew up around all of those rich people.
2
SPEAKER_02
You still have access, contacts, information.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes, exactly.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you still got all those soft skills.
2
SPEAKER_00
Whereas someone whose parents are like, I will leave you every dollar I have, but they grow up lower middle class, they don t have that proximity that you had.
2
SPEAKER_02
growing up.
2
SPEAKER_02
What skills should employees be developing throughout the year or years at a career or multiple careers?
2
SPEAKER_02
What can they develop to make themselves more indispensable?
2
SPEAKER_02
Besides just like, okay, I m doing the job and I m showing up and doing it, but should I be taking classes?
2
SPEAKER_02
Should I be learning public speaking?
2
SPEAKER_02
Should I be, I don t know, some other skills learning to make myself more desirable at the current job or on another place?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think every job, being good at your technical skills is great.
2
SPEAKER_00
But you want to have transferable skills.
2
SPEAKER_00
And these are the soft skills.
2
SPEAKER_02
Bring it.
2
SPEAKER_02
What is it?
2
SPEAKER_02
What is it?
2
SPEAKER_00
Tell me.
2
SPEAKER_00
Again, it goes back to those fork and knife skills.
2
SPEAKER_00
You want to be able to have a conversation with just about anyone.
2
SPEAKER_00
You want to be able to make someone feel special.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I feel so lucky because after my
3
SPEAKER_01
stint on Wall Street, I went and worked at a media company in strategy sales.
3
SPEAKER_01
And let me tell you, sales, that is another beast because you eat what you kill.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I got some sales training that my company obviously paid thousands and thousands of dollars for.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I don t remember any of it except for one thing, WIIFM.
3
SPEAKER_01
So you guess what that means.
3
SPEAKER_00
W-I-F-M.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was thinking what if something, but I m not sure.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay, so you got the W. What?
3
SPEAKER_01
What s in it for me.
3
SPEAKER_01
We always know what we want.
3
SPEAKER_01
What s in it for us.
3
SPEAKER_01
But what s in it for me for the other person?
3
SPEAKER_01
Why do they need to help you do that thing?
3
SPEAKER_01
And this is how I always get what I want.
3
SPEAKER_01
I, no, no, think about it.
3
SPEAKER_01
I always think at the other end of the table, what s in it for that person?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like the prenup.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s the prenup.
3
SPEAKER_00
What s in it for your fiance?
3
SPEAKER_01
What s in it for my fiance?
3
SPEAKER_01
What s in it for, you know, I ll talk about you.
3
SPEAKER_01
I know that you have, you know, a very, very successful podcast.
3
SPEAKER_01
But wasn t it for you interviewing me?
3
SPEAKER_01
You want a lot of people to listen to this.
3
SPEAKER_01
You want to get those, you know, charitable numbers up.
3
SPEAKER_01
You want to be up the ranks.
3
SPEAKER_01
You want a big social splash.
3
SPEAKER_01
You want all of these things.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I...
3
SPEAKER_01
position myself in a certain way to make those things happen.
3
SPEAKER_01
If I go to a car dealership, I m like, OK, it s the end of the month.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s the end of October.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m going to go.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m going to ask for the floor mats.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m going to do all of these things.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I m like, but what s in it for that guy?
3
SPEAKER_01
That guy s getting a commission because it s the end of the month, and they need to make their number.
3
SPEAKER_01
They want to hit their quota.
3
SPEAKER_01
They want to get the kicker.
3
SPEAKER_01
They get paid upon delivery, so I m going to go four days before the end of the month and blah, blah, blah.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m going to have to buy, you know, an Aziz car on the lot.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I think about what s in it for them.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s cool.
3
SPEAKER_01
When I m at a gate and my flight s been delayed and I m mad and I m angry, I m like, this gate agent wants to kill me.
3
SPEAKER_01
She does not like me.
3
SPEAKER_01
She doesn t want to help me.
3
SPEAKER_01
What can I say that is going to make her want to help me?
3
SPEAKER_01
So maybe it s, hey, I know you ve got a crazy crowd control thing happening going on.
3
SPEAKER_01
When do you think we are going to have an answer?
3
SPEAKER_01
If not, I would like to just rebook my flight.
3
SPEAKER_01
That way I can get out of your hair.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then they re like, oh, OK, this person has already thought through solutions.
3
SPEAKER_01
I can just ABC pick one for them, whichever one that I think is going to make the most sense based on what I think the plane s going to arrive to the gate versus,
3
SPEAKER_01
What s going on?
3
SPEAKER_01
No gate agent wants to answer that question because it s always bad news.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re always going to be mad.
3
SPEAKER_01
So think about what s in it for me.
3
SPEAKER_01
What s in it for them?
3
SPEAKER_00
Man, I m excited about this.
3
SPEAKER_00
Rich AF, the winning money mindset that will change your life.
3
SPEAKER_00
Make sure you guys get a few copies of this.
3
SPEAKER_00
Give them to your friends.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you want to learn how to really maximize your earnings to get more out of your current job or your career, if you want to understand the difference between savings, accounts, investing, all these different things,
3
SPEAKER_00
The technical side of things here as well, if you want to learn more tax strategies, legal loopholes, it s all in here.
3
SPEAKER_00
Make sure to check it out.
3
SPEAKER_00
You ve also got an amazing podcast that I want people to check out as well.
3
SPEAKER_00
We ll have all these things linked up.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s called Net Worth and Chill.
3
SPEAKER_01
Net Worth and Chill.
3
SPEAKER_00
You ve got Your Rich BFF.
3
SPEAKER_00
You ve got so many different things.
3
SPEAKER_00
Your social media is great.
3
SPEAKER_00
I love seeing your content online, your TikTok, your Instagram.
3
SPEAKER_00
We ll have all that linked up.
3
SPEAKER_00
What else can we do to be of service to you today besides get a copy of the book, check out your content, all the things?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
So you can get a pre-order copy of Rich AF at richaf.me.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes, I made the URL a manifestation.
3
SPEAKER_01
And you can find me on social as yourrichbff.
3
SPEAKER_01
But if there is one favor that you can do for me that I would so, so appreciate is just talk to your friends about money.
3
SPEAKER_00
I love that.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because we ve been told for so long that it s taboo and tacky.
3
SPEAKER_01
And you are doing nobody any favors except for big ol  corporations.
3
SPEAKER_01
when you keep that information hidden.
3
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
3
SPEAKER_01
When you hold that shame.
3
SPEAKER_01
Let me tell you, when you talk to your friend about money, and they make more than you, they don t suddenly make less for having told you.
3
SPEAKER_01
But you now know, and you can go and ask your boss for more.
3
SPEAKER_01
So please, please talk to your friends about money.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s beautiful.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think the earlier you can speak about money and make it more of a common practice as just having a conversation over coffee and just relaxing, it will be less stressful in the future.
3
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t have to be an icky topic.
3
SPEAKER_00
It doesn t have to be.
3
SPEAKER_00
I love that.
3
SPEAKER_00
Vivian, this is powerful.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve got two final questions for you.
3
SPEAKER_00
This is a question I ask everyone towards the end.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s called the three truths.
3
SPEAKER_00
Hypothetical question and scenario.
3
SPEAKER_00
Imagine you get to live as long as you want.
3
SPEAKER_00
Ooh.
3
SPEAKER_00
But it s your last day.
3
SPEAKER_00
So you live as long as you want in this life, but we re at the last day of your life.
3
SPEAKER_00
It can be 100 something years old.
3
200.
3
SPEAKER_01
OK, but has my body deteriorated?
3
SPEAKER_00
You re still in perfect health.
3
SPEAKER_00
OK, great.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you still look great.
3
SPEAKER_00
OK, great.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re filthy rich, you ve accomplished everything you wanna accomplish, you ve got a beautiful life, family, everything you want, it s happened.
3
SPEAKER_00
But it s the last day and you ve gotta take all of your work with you to the next place.
3
SPEAKER_00
So the book is gone, this interview is gone, everything you ve ever created, for whatever reason, it s gone.
3
SPEAKER_00
But you get to leave behind three lessons with the world.
3
SPEAKER_00
And this is all we have to remember you by.
3
SPEAKER_00
I call it three truths.
3
SPEAKER_00
What would be that for you?
3
SPEAKER_01
Wow, OK, wasn t prepared for that one.
3
SPEAKER_01
That is an excellent question.
3
SPEAKER_01
I would say the first, always buy them the chicken parm.
3
SPEAKER_01
And this has to, you know, there s a little bit of an explanation behind this.
3
SPEAKER_00
I love chicken parm.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s incredible.
3
SPEAKER_01
OK, so the first.
3
SPEAKER_00
Dude, there s amazing chicken parm here in LA.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, really?
3
SPEAKER_00
Amazing chicken parm, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Um, the first guy I worked for on Wall Street, my boss s boss, was this super Italian guy.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, just the most Italian Italian man you ve ever seen.
3
SPEAKER_01
And he told me one day, he was like, Viv, you always got to buy them the chicken parm.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, sir, I m lactose intolerant.
3
SPEAKER_01
What are you talking about?
3
SPEAKER_00
I m vegan.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m like, I don t even eat cheese.
3
SPEAKER_01
Um, but what he meant by that was,
3
SPEAKER_01
Every so often, out of just the random kindness of his heart, he would buy a bunch of chicken parms and he would dish them out to the people on our team.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then, you know, the guys on IT, the guys in the back office, the guys in the middle office, and, you know, he must be spending like almost a thousand dollars on chicken parm.
3
SPEAKER_01
And he meant by like, just treat people with kindness, not because, you know,
3
SPEAKER_01
You have to, but because you want to.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then when he ever had an issue, those people came running to his desk.
3
SPEAKER_01
If multiple people were having issues, they only ran to his desk.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because he had genuinely treated them with kindness when it didn t serve him.
3
SPEAKER_01
When it was just a random Wednesday, he would be like, oh, how s your kid s little league game going?
3
SPEAKER_01
And took a genuine interest in people.
3
SPEAKER_01
And to your point of being interesting and asking questions, just being kind.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think that s really important.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s cool.
3
SPEAKER_00
OK, that s the first one.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s a good one.
3
SPEAKER_01
I would say if you are a woman, just know yourself and know your worth.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think we compete a lot with other women because we have that scarcity mindset.
3
SPEAKER_01
And we think that another person s success is our downfall.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that, you know.
3
SPEAKER_01
If you re number one on the podcast charts, it means I m not number one, OK?
3
SPEAKER_01
But there s always room for more people to succeed.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, there s enough white space for all of us to get there, for all of us to have what we want and get what we need.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I think it took me a very long time to learn that.
3
SPEAKER_01
I would always be like, if that girl has XYZ, I can t have it.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, I need to do this.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was just, like, so unhealthy.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I think it s more of knowing yourself, knowing your worth, and not being unnecessarily competitive.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think there s a little healthy competition in everything.
3
SPEAKER_01
But don t let it be to the detriment of your mental health or anything in your life.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then just I think the third one is don t kill the golden goose.
3
SPEAKER_00
You have that on your shoes.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God, no.
3
SPEAKER_01
Don t tell people what kind of shoes I m wearing.
3
SPEAKER_00
It says Golden Goose on it.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it does.
3
SPEAKER_01
So, not sponsored by the Golden Goose shoe brand, but I would like to be.
3
SPEAKER_01
The old fable is that, and I m sure you ve heard it, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
Go ahead, say it.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
A farmer and his wife, they have this goose, and every single day this goose lays a golden egg.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh my gosh, like a little nugget of gold.
3
SPEAKER_01
They re like, that s so weird.
3
SPEAKER_01
All the other geese are doing this, but like, this gold is amazing.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like we now have this.
4
SPEAKER_02
little pellet of gold.
4
SPEAKER_02
I wish we had more.
4
SPEAKER_02
And so every day, they get a little egg of gold.
4
SPEAKER_02
And they re like, well, it s not happening fast enough.
4
SPEAKER_02
We should kill the goose.
4
SPEAKER_02
And that way, the inside of the goose will be entirely gold.
4
SPEAKER_02
We ll be able to get it all at once, and we ll sell it.
4
SPEAKER_02
So they slaughter this goose.
4
SPEAKER_02
And the inside of the goose is a regular goose body.
4
SPEAKER_02
And there is not a single piece of gold.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I think
4
SPEAKER_02
this is a bigger metaphor of like life of us always wanting the next big thing wanting more but like i am a big big like this is a problem i have um
4
SPEAKER_02
I currently have the life that I prayed for a couple months ago, and sometimes I don t get to enjoy it.
4
SPEAKER_02
Sometimes I m not even enjoying it, and that s sad.
4
SPEAKER_02
I think we need to not kill the golden goose, enjoy those little nuggets of gold that we get every single day, and it s okay to want to work for more and strive for more, but don t ruin a good thing just because you re always trying.
4
SPEAKER_02
to hit the next milestone, they ll come.
4
SPEAKER_02
But you could completely lose this entire journey if you don t take a second to stop them roses, and stop and smell the roses.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s beautiful.
4
SPEAKER_01
How does someone create that belief that they can have control over their money?
4
SPEAKER_00
I think it starts with dealing with their past.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, our friend Dr. John Deloney has a book called Own Your Past, Change Your Future, and you have to own the shame and the guilt and the baggage and the mistakes and the hurt and the financial trauma and your parents divorced and it was money stress and money fights and you took on all this debt and so who are you to ever build wealth and become debt free?
4
SPEAKER_00
You have to grapple with that and go like, that s not who I am.
4
SPEAKER_00
those are things that happened and yes they may have happened to me but that s not going to control my destiny and so it starts with that realizing like this is my past that s fine that s not where i m headed and so we always say the windshield is bigger than the rearview mirror for a reason so if you can start looking ahead going regardless and in spite of all of that i am going to
4
SPEAKER_00
Change my family tree.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s what we call it.
4
SPEAKER_00
Build generational wealth.
4
SPEAKER_00
Break the cycles and chains that have come before me.
4
SPEAKER_00
Those people are the ones that inspire me every day when they call the show.
4
SPEAKER_00
And they didn t come from money.
4
SPEAKER_00
They didn t come from trust funds.
4
SPEAKER_00
They came from broken homes and little incomes, and they overcame.
4
SPEAKER_00
Those are the heroes.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I think I saw someone earlier this week
4
SPEAKER_01
a woman come on the show and say she got out of like $300,000 in debt in like 18 months or something on your show.
4
SPEAKER_01
And maybe it was $300,000, maybe it was $170,000 I think it was that she got out of debt in 18 months.
4
SPEAKER_01
And the amount of peace that she had in her facial expression and her body language around being debt free from
4
SPEAKER_01
These, I guess, bad debts really looked empowering on what she was capable of doing now without that debt weighing her down.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I m curious, before we get into the next, the fifth habit.
4
SPEAKER_01
How does someone develop that that belief that they can pay down their debts if it seems so daunting and so overwhelming?
4
SPEAKER_00
Realizing that you re not alone, I think, is a really important step.
4
SPEAKER_00
Too many people feel like, well, my situation is different, and I m unique, and I m special, and they don t get it.
4
SPEAKER_00
But then I meet people every day, and I get in a Financial Peace University class, and there s all these other people who made money mistakes.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I go, oh.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m not alone.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m not the only idiot out there.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m not the only average George out there.
4
SPEAKER_00
That to me is encouraging because it tells me that this path is something that other people have done before me, that will come after me, and that I can do this too.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so I think it s important to get other people around you.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that might mean cutting out some toxic friends who are not trying to be on that journey.
4
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
4
SPEAKER_00
Finding people who aren t trying to live on less than they make, that s an important piece.
4
SPEAKER_00
And the other piece is feeling progress.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that s why I think those baby steps are so important.
4
SPEAKER_00
When you start with just, hey, a thousand bucks, can you get a thousand bucks?
4
SPEAKER_00
Most of us would say, yeah, I can sell some stuff.
4
SPEAKER_00
I can get the second job.
4
SPEAKER_00
I can, you know, not eat out this month.
4
SPEAKER_00
Now it s like, all right, let s attack that consumer debt.
4
SPEAKER_00
Debt snowball, smallest to largest.
4
SPEAKER_00
Let s just attack the small debt.
4
SPEAKER_00
Can we just do that?
4
SPEAKER_00
One thing at a time, we re not saving, we re not investing.
4
SPEAKER_00
We re just gonna do one thing at a time.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that to me is what builds that hope and builds that progress and momentum and keeps you motivated on the journey.
4
SPEAKER_00
You have to have a little win early on or else you give up.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s good.
4
SPEAKER_00
And what about the fifth habit?
4
SPEAKER_00
Ooh, the fifth habit is so boring and unsexy that it will upset you.
4
SPEAKER_00
it is getting on the budget, it s making a plan.
4
SPEAKER_00
And what I found was that budgets are not for broke people, budgets are not for wealthy people, budgets are for intentional people.
4
SPEAKER_00
That was a game changer for me, because I always thought like, we have to be a super nerd and love Excel.
4
SPEAKER_00
Or you have to be like really broke, because you think budget, you think this person s real frugal and stingy and cheap, and they can t spend anything.
4
SPEAKER_00
You say, I m on a budget, that means I can t go out with the friends.
4
SPEAKER_00
Right.
4
SPEAKER_00
But to me, it s just putting a plan on paper and looking at reality going, my income is 5,000,
4
SPEAKER_00
I need to spend, I m going to make a plan for every single dollar because otherwise what happens?
4
SPEAKER_00
Dollars float away.
4
SPEAKER_00
You go, where do, where, oh my gosh, we spent 600 bucks eating out this month and door dashing a burrito.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, all of that unintentional spending and impulse leads to you not hitting financial goals.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
So it s conscious spending habits.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s being aware of where you re spending your money.
4
SPEAKER_01
There was a quote in here.
4
SPEAKER_01
Let me see this quote real quick.
4
SPEAKER_01
I saw this based on budgeting.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I had a whole chapter called Budgeting is Freedom.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s the first one in the Breaking Free section to help people.
4
SPEAKER_01
And the quote on that is from John Maxwell.
4
SPEAKER_01
He said, a budget is telling your money where to go instead of wondering where it went.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I think a lot of people aren t conscious about their spending habits.
4
SPEAKER_01
And they re not intentional about where they want their money to go.
4
SPEAKER_01
They buy things based on impulse and based on pleasure and based on desire.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then they realize like, oh, I don t have as much money as I thought I had because they re not intentional about it.
4
SPEAKER_01
How often should we be looking at all of our accounts?
4
SPEAKER_01
Should this be a daily thing?
4
SPEAKER_01
Should it be monthly?
4
SPEAKER_01
Is it too much to look at it where it s an obsession and you re over obsessing versus like a natural flow?
4
SPEAKER_01
What do you think?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s a great question.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, we tell people to make a budget every month.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so actually creating the budget on paper before the next month begins is key.
4
SPEAKER_00
So that will happen one time.
4
SPEAKER_00
And if you ve got a spouse, you need to do that together with a quick budget meeting.
4
SPEAKER_00
This is not a four hour, you know, Lord of the Rings saga here.
4
SPEAKER_00
This is going, hey, what s going on this month?
4
SPEAKER_00
Hey, we got that birthday party.
4
SPEAKER_00
We got to get that gift for this thing.
4
SPEAKER_00
Remember, we have that vacation coming up.
4
SPEAKER_00
Let s start saving.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so that s all it is.
4
SPEAKER_00
But as far as tracking your transactions, because that s a really important part of the budget, people forget to do.
4
SPEAKER_00
Looks great on paper.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then we just spend the rest of the month and hope.
4
SPEAKER_00
Fingers crossed we have money in the account at the end of the month and don t overdraft.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s most people.
4
SPEAKER_00
But tracking your transactions is a key, and you want to do that once every day or other day.
4
SPEAKER_00
And again, if you do it once every other day, it s like cleaning your room.
4
SPEAKER_00
You don t ever have to clean your room if you just tidy up real quick.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so with EveryDollar, our budgeting app, this is as easy as just dragging the transaction.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like Amazon, drag it up to shopping.
4
SPEAKER_00
We re done.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so when you do that, you can actually see, do we have any money left?
4
SPEAKER_00
for xyz or hey we re over budget we got to figure something out we got to sacrifice we got to cut this category here what most people do is just overspend in four different categories and they go we re a thousand bucks over and we put it on the credit card we ll figure it out next month and that s why it s important to not only do a budget but to use your own money and i only have i have one debit card and i use cash occasionally that s it my life is very simple in that way and i have my business my ramsey business debit card as well
4
SPEAKER_01
What do you say to people that say, well, I love having a credit card because it allows me to get points for flights or whatever it might be for other perks.
4
SPEAKER_01
And if I m tracking it, just like I would a debit card, then I m missing out on all these other perks.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, I found the people who actually could stand to benefit and actually have any meaningful rewards make enough money and spend enough that they don t need the rewards.
4
SPEAKER_00
So it s kind of hilarious at that point to be like, if you make $150,000, the $1,000 in rewards is not changing your life whatsoever, and the mental calories you re spending to play the game and maximize is not worth your time.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so I break down, in chapter three on credit cards, I break down eight different character archetypes that I found with credit cards.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so there was the rewards redeemer.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s the world traveler.
4
SPEAKER_00
The person s like, I got to have my airline miles.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I break down, you got to spend $50,000 in order to get your $250 flight.
4
SPEAKER_00
But you don t even know that, because what do they give you?
4
SPEAKER_00
Points and miles.
4
SPEAKER_00
What is 100,000 miles?
4
SPEAKER_00
We don t know anymore.
4
SPEAKER_00
The credit card companies want to confuse us.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I found this out from an ex-Capital One employee.
4
SPEAKER_00
She told me verbatim that these credit card companies run 10,000 experiments a year on consumers, and A.B.
4
SPEAKER_00
tests them to go, oh, if we switch it from cash back to points, it triggers something different in their brain.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like Chuck E. Cheese.
4
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
4
SPEAKER_00
You re like, I don t know what 100,000 points is, but it feels like a lot.
4
SPEAKER_00
Let s sign up for the bonus.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s like two candy bars.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
5
SPEAKER_01
So most people, they re stepping over a dollar to hopefully pick up a quarter, and the average credit card interest right now is 22% APR.
5
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
5
SPEAKER_01
But we re doing all this in hopes of getting 2% cash back?
5
SPEAKER_01
You re like, is it worth spending a hundred bucks to get two bucks?
5
SPEAKER_01
But they tell me as well, I m not spending any differently than if it was my own money.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m like, you want to bet?
5
SPEAKER_01
Here s $1,000 cash of your own money.
5
SPEAKER_01
Go hand over $1,000 and see the emotional pain it causes.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so adding friction back into our life will actually help us spend less.
5
SPEAKER_01
And that s what happens when you use cash especially, but even a debit card, your brain knows.
5
SPEAKER_01
This is coming right out of my account.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s Louis  money right now.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so in the book, the thesis of that chapter is when it hurts less, it costs more.
5
SPEAKER_01
When we remove the friction, you re going to spend more.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I quote MIT studies using fMRI technology on the brain, and they re seeing when people swipe that credit card, it releases the brakes on spending and hits the accelerator.
5
SPEAKER_01
Really?
5
SPEAKER_01
And so it s like both and.
5
SPEAKER_01
And every study shows you spend more when you swipe that card.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so I try to hit every single objection here, because we ve heard so much on the Ramsey show.
5
SPEAKER_01
What if I paid the perfect spenders, the first one in there?
5
SPEAKER_01
I never pay a dime in interest.
5
SPEAKER_01
What s wrong with using my credit card?
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, all of those excuses.
5
SPEAKER_00
Pay it off every month, all that different things.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
But even then, think about it, you could have zero bucks in the bank at the end of that month.
5
SPEAKER_01
You re not building wealth just because you have a zero credit card balance.
5
SPEAKER_01
I want people to build wealth, not just play the game perfectly of Capital One.
5
SPEAKER_00
Right.
5
SPEAKER_00
And if it s coming out of a debit card, you d be much more conscious of like, do I really need this thing?
5
SPEAKER_00
Or is this...
5
SPEAKER_00
Whatever I m gonna buy right now.
5
SPEAKER_00
Is it really gonna be the thing that I want right now?
5
SPEAKER_01
I m gonna make me happy rotating cash back So when you tell me I spend just like I would not know you re going out to eat because you get 5% This month on restaurants rights like they know what they re doing.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s always on travel and restaurants.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s never hey pay your utility bills And we ll give you 5% cash
5
SPEAKER_01
It s never the boring stuff.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s the frivolous spending.
5
SPEAKER_01
Sure.
5
SPEAKER_01
So there s so much in there that was fascinating, especially the Fed Reserve study that shows that $15 billion moves from the poor, uneducated, to the wealthy or educated through credit card rewards.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so when people tell me, well, George, I m not, like, who s benefiting from this?
5
SPEAKER_01
Like, I m not hurting anyone by doing this.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like, technically, I m not on a moral high horse.
5
SPEAKER_01
But the study shows that the poorest, most uneducated people
5
SPEAKER_01
is who s paying for your flight, who s paying for your cash back.
5
SPEAKER_01
And to me, that s not a system I want to be a part of, if I can opt out of it by using my own money.
5
SPEAKER_00
What do you think is the number one thing about money that stresses them out the most?
5
SPEAKER_00
The idea of money.
5
SPEAKER_00
Is it the debt of money?
5
SPEAKER_00
Is it having lots of money?
5
SPEAKER_00
Is it relationships and money?
5
SPEAKER_00
Is it people s opinions about your money?
5
SPEAKER_00
What is the number one thing about money that stresses people out the most?
5
SPEAKER_01
When it comes to stress, I think a lot of stress is based on fear of the unknown and when you have headlines and economic uncertainty and what s the president going to do or not going to do and are they going to forgive student loans?
5
SPEAKER_01
And I have so much peace when it comes to personal finances because I ignore all of the noise and I only focus on what I can control.
5
SPEAKER_01
When you start pointing fingers at, well, what are we going to do about inflation, the cost of eggs?
5
SPEAKER_01
And dude, Congress has got to get their act together.
5
SPEAKER_01
And the Fed, they keep messing with these interest rates.
5
SPEAKER_01
And the guy in the White House is to blame.
5
SPEAKER_01
And all of that is, we can always complain about that for a moment.
5
SPEAKER_01
But at the end of the day, we got bills to pay.
5
SPEAKER_01
We got goals to achieve.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so I go through all of those excuses in chapter one to tell people, like, hey, we can point fingers and enjoy it, and that s cathartic.
5
SPEAKER_01
But at the end of the day, what you can control is the guy in the mirror and how he spends his money and how she saves her money.
5
SPEAKER_01
And to me, that at first is kind of like, OK, I can control me, whoop, whoop.
5
SPEAKER_01
But it s so empowering when you realize, like, oh, if I m the problem, I m the solution.
5
SPEAKER_01
This is amazing.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so I think that stress comes from the fear of the unknown and what could happen and what if the stock market tanks.
5
SPEAKER_01
But when you have no debt, no lenders to pay, you have a fully funded emergency fund, and you ve got wealth being built for the future, and you re thinking long term, you re not worried about what happens tomorrow.
5
SPEAKER_01
Right.
5
SPEAKER_00
Because you ve got your plan and you re sticking to it.
5
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m so confident in my plan.
5
SPEAKER_01
And it s not because I m some like multi-millionaire.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s because I m content with where I m at.
5
SPEAKER_01
I don t need another million dollars tomorrow.
5
SPEAKER_00
You don t need a new watch.
5
SPEAKER_00
You don t need a new car.
5
SPEAKER_00
You don t need to go on five extra trips that you see other people doing.
5
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
5
SPEAKER_00
You don t need to overspend because you have financial peace.
5
SPEAKER_01
And the simpler you can create, the simpler life you can create, the better off you re going to be.
5
SPEAKER_01
Because the more stuff you own, the more it kind of owns you.
5
SPEAKER_01
The more complicated life gets.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so, you know, I was just hanging out with the minimalists and we were talking about all of this stuff because we re seeing anxiety stems from the stuff around us.
5
SPEAKER_01
And the less clutter in our life, emotionally, physically, financially, the better off we are.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I ve never seen someone debt free who s like, my life is worse now that I have no debt.
5
SPEAKER_01
Not once, they always are levitating because they just have a piece about them because their body s not keeping the score anymore of the debt that they owe.
5
SPEAKER_00
Do you think people have more shame around being in debt or more shame today about having an abundance of money?
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh, like, is there a shame and like, well, I don t want to, because other people are hurting.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
I ve got, I have wealth.
5
SPEAKER_00
I figured out how to like take responsibility for my life and, you know, pay off the debts and then start building wealth.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I ve actually done it now.
5
SPEAKER_00
I spent 10, 20, 30 years of actually creating something of value and I ve been smart with my money.
5
SPEAKER_00
Now I have it.
5
SPEAKER_00
which used to be like celebrated, like, you know, it s like, but now it s kind of like, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
So do you feel like people have more shame around being in debt and broke?
5
SPEAKER_00
and a victim that they don t have control of their life financially or more shame about being rich.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, in a culture where debt has become celebrated, I think we ve lost a level of shame that we ought to have.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like back in our grandparents  days, it was not okay to owe people money.
5
SPEAKER_01
It was a goal to not owe people money.
5
SPEAKER_01
Now there s TikToks about people going, I m $15 million in debt and I m proud of it and you should be $15 million in debt too.
5
SPEAKER_01
And the people who have wealth and have earned it with integrity are going like, I don t want to hurt anyone s feelings because everyone s upset.
5
SPEAKER_01
And at the heart of it is, I don t think it s fair that Lewis has more than me.
5
SPEAKER_01
And it s this comparison culture and mentality of if he has something I don t, that s not fair.
5
SPEAKER_01
And, you know, it goes into basically social and socialist anarchy at that point.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so the best thing we can do, whether, you know, we have people with all the baby steps and they re whispering to us like, hey,
5
SPEAKER_01
They re not, they re not like owning it.
5
SPEAKER_01
They re not like shouting from the rooftops, but we live in such a weird world at Ramsey where we re celebrating people paying off debt.
5
SPEAKER_01
We re asking about income all day long.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so it s, there s, there s less shame in our Ramsey bubble, but it s weird that we whisper that.
5
SPEAKER_00
Why do you think there s so much shame for people that have, you know, a hundred grand or a million dollars of net worth where they can t speak about it to their friends and family openly without feeling judged, attacked, having handouts everywhere where people now, now you got to pay off my debts.
5
SPEAKER_00
Is that what it is, that people are just shaming people that have taken responsibility for their money?
5
SPEAKER_01
The heart behind it is there s wisdom to it.
5
SPEAKER_01
Me telling a random person or my friend, like, hey, bro, I got a million bucks.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s out of context, and it s going to make them feel small and less than.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so I think the heart of it is good.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s good intentions.
5
SPEAKER_01
And there s a time and a place to talk about it.
5
SPEAKER_01
The Ramsey Show is one of them.
5
SPEAKER_01
We love celebrating people.
5
SPEAKER_01
But going down the street being like, I m a millionaire.
5
SPEAKER_01
What are you guys doing?
5
SPEAKER_01
It s hard.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so even with this book, I don t brag that I m a millionaire.
5
SPEAKER_01
I tell people, I m the average George.
5
SPEAKER_01
If I can go from broke to millionaire, you can too.
5
SPEAKER_01
So it s never a flex on my part.
5
SPEAKER_01
All it is, is I want to empower other people that I didn t come from money.
5
SPEAKER_01
I am a W-2 employee.
5
SPEAKER_01
I didn t start my own business.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m not a self-made entrepreneur.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m a guy who just followed a simple plan and believes that anyone can become a millionaire in America today.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so I talk about money so that we don t have to talk about money.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s like, let s take the shame out of it and let s just make it fun and conversational.
5
SPEAKER_01
And it s not about a flex, it s about encouraging and empowering each other.
5
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
5
SPEAKER_00
So you re telling me you can work somewhere for a decade.
5
SPEAKER_00
not start your own business, not be hustling on the side constantly and spending all your time trying to earn more constantly, and you could get to millionaire status.
5
SPEAKER_00
Is that what you re telling me?
5
SPEAKER_00
It s possible?
5
SPEAKER_01
It s possible.
5
SPEAKER_01
I think it looks different for a lot of people.
5
SPEAKER_01
A part of my wealth building was my spouse, Whitney.
5
SPEAKER_01
I met her at Ramsey.
5
SPEAKER_01
And we are net worth millionaires together as a household.
5
SPEAKER_01
And people are always like, well, that doesn t count.
5
SPEAKER_01
because really you have to take half of that because what if you divorce?
5
SPEAKER_01
I m like, that s such a weird, that s like saying like, well, what if the stock market goes to zero?
5
SPEAKER_01
You re not a millionaire anymore.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m like, you re right.
5
SPEAKER_01
I wouldn t be.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I think a spouse is one of the most powerful wealth building tools.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s underrated.
5
SPEAKER_01
Tell me why.
5
SPEAKER_01
Because when my wife and I met, we were so aligned, obviously.
5
SPEAKER_01
We both worked at Ramsey.
5
SPEAKER_01
We drank the Kool-Aid, and it was good.
5
SPEAKER_01
And we were like, we started off our marriage debt-free.
5
SPEAKER_01
I had paid off my consumer debt at that point.
5
SPEAKER_01
She was much smarter than me, much better looking, much better at money management.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so it s a life hack to start your marriage off debt-free, already investing for the future, having an emergency fund, getting into a home.
7
SPEAKER_01
emotionally stable enough to manage that chaos and stress in your life?
7
SPEAKER_01
Do you want that in your life?
7
SPEAKER_01
And I don t know all the details of what actually happened, but I do know that more money doesn t always mean more peace.
7
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes more money means more pain if you re not educated or emotionally ready for that amount of money.
7
SPEAKER_01
And do you think that is
7
SPEAKER_01
Do you think if people got written a million dollar check today and they were in debt, do you think their lives would be better or more stressful?
7
SPEAKER_00
Well, I think money magnifies who you are.
7
SPEAKER_00
And if you ve never managed a lot of money, it s scary.
7
SPEAKER_00
Because if you haven t managed the little money you ve had well, what makes you think you re going to manage a million dollars well?
7
SPEAKER_00
Just because you have more of it doesn t mean you re going to make wise decisions.
7
SPEAKER_00
And we see this with the data on lottery winners.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s gone.
7
SPEAKER_00
Like, how did you blow?
7
SPEAKER_00
We got a call the other day, and this guy s like, I won a million bucks, and it was gone within a few years.
7
SPEAKER_00
Really?
7
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And he just blew it.
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Doesn t take much, you know?
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And so it was really sad, because a million bucks in the lottery is really $600,000.
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And you spend $100,000 a year for six years.
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Gone.
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That money s gone.
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Yeah.
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Not that crazy to do.
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And so, I mean, you ve had our friend Dave Ramsey on this show multiple times, and he shared his story of bankruptcy.
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And he was over leveraged in real estate.
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The bank called the notes and he couldn t sell off the properties fast enough and it destroyed his life.
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Wow.
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It almost destroyed his marriage.
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And so there s a reason Dave is so risk averse when it comes to debt.
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And now he has a $600 million real estate portfolio with the Ramsey headquarters and all kinds of properties.
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and he paid cash for every dang one.
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That s incredible.
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He doesn t have a cent of debt.
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And so to me, it s inspiring to go like, you don t have to, there s not this one game you have to play to be a real estate investor.
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You can do it differently.
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You can go slow until you can go fast.
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And that s what Dave did.
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Cause when you have all paid for properties, that thing cash flows like a mother.
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And so all of a sudden, pretty quickly, you have enough cash to deploy and get more property.
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Right.
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And so it s a different game.
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It s the tortoise versus the hare, but Dave s real peaceful with this property.
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You know what I mean?
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Like no one s ever coming after him to collect.
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Exactly.
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And so that puts you in control.
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You started in debt and then you have a net worth of over a million dollars now.
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What is your biggest fear around money with everything you know with your own personal life moving forward?
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That s a great question.
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I mean, I m unbelievably blessed and highly favored just to be where I m at today and getting the platform of Dave Ramsey and getting to work with the amazing team I get to work with.
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And financially speaking, while we don t have any payments, there s always this nagging fear about what could happen and what is enough.
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And that s something I ve been grappling with of, you know, the goalpost is always moving.
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Like, is it, you know, you could say like, once we have 2 million in retirement, I ll feel safe.
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Cause if I can withdraw this much and then we can live off this, we ll be okay.
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But then what if you get your retirement?
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And the stock market tanks as soon as you enter retirement.
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It s a five year, you know, bear market, whatever it is.
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There s always this fear of the unknown.
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And so the only thing I can do is try to prepare without becoming paranoid.
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I don t want to have to build a bunker and have $500,000 sitting in cash in order to sleep at night.
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Wow.
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And so I m sort of, that s something I m grappling with of what is enough?
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What does that even mean?
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What is enough for you?
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I don t know.
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I mean, there s, there s, you know, hey, 20 years from now, if this compound interest works in my 401k and we upgrade this house, I m such a planner and such a nerd that it s fun to do those calculations.
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And so to me, it s like, well, we ll upgrade to this type of house five years from now, we ll have a second kid.
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Be a million-two house we could pay for in cash, that would be a cool goal.
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Maybe in 25 years my retirement account, we should have about $4 million, that should be enough to retire on.
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You have all of those things on paper, but I don t know what life s going to hold in the meantime.
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I might have a lot more than that, it might be less.
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And so what I m grappling with is, are you okay to adapt?
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And I ve been a guy who wants to plan everything.
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I want to be prepared for everything in life.
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And it s hard to let go of that and just be present in the moment and not have to think about what s the next year look like?
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What are our goals?
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As someone who s goal-driven, it s so hard to let go and just stare my baby in the eyes and go, this is all that matters right now.
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Wow.
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You know what I mean?
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That s something I m truly struggling with, just to be present.
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My wife was like, can you stop looking at your phone?
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Like your little girl is trying to get your attention.
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Wow.
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You know what I mean?
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And so as someone who s addicted to screens, like many of us millennials are, I m trying to now unlearn and deprogram some of this kind of high anxiety feelings I have.
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And getting rid of debt was a huge part of that and getting to a good financial spot.
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I don t have financial stress anymore, but there s still the normal anxiety of, of life and inputs and trying to get more centered and do the quiet time and work out and eat better.
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All of it, it s a lot.
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And so that s something truly that I think in the next year, as a new dad, I m trying to grapple with is, I got new goals now.
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It s not about me or even my wife anymore.
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It s, we got a little girl to raise in this chaotic world.
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I want to do her right.
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You know, my gravestone, it s not going to have my net worth on it of like, look at what this guy achieved.
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Look at how many YouTube subscribers he had.
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It s going to, it s going to be like beloved father, you know, doting husband.
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It s going to say that.
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And so to me, it changes the way I look at money and changes the generational impact I want to have.
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And so the goalpost, I m trying to just stop looking at it and not look at the 401k balance and instead look at my little girl in the eyes and goes, this is all that matters right now.
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Wow.
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That s it.
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What s your daughter s name?
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Mia.
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Mia.
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When she was born, was there something that shifted in you?
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around money and your mission, or was it all kind of just like everything was the same?
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Did something shift inside of you around your views around money when she was born?
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I think so.
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One of the first thoughts was, I can t believe she gets to grow up in a home where money, stress, and money fights will never be a problem.
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Wow.
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Like, she s gonna grow up in a home that doesn t have a mortgage attached to it.
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Like, that is mind-boggling privilege that I get to give to this girl.
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There s the fear of entitlement, because when you re doing well, every parent wants their kids to do better than they did.
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But then the struggle is, well, I don t want my kid to think we have money.
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So you try to hide the wealth, like, we re not doing that well, honey.
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You know what I mean?
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There s that fear, but I think it s a lot more about…
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how you raise them, the character, the integrity versus money.
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Because I ve seen Dave Ramsey raise his kids and his kids are incredible.
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There s zero entitlement.
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They are the most humble kids in the world and they re inheriting the Ramsey empire and you wouldn t even know it because they re just so kind, so hardworking, not an ounce of entitlement.
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And so that s what I hope to do for my kid.
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And when it comes to money, she s going to go to college debt free, and that might mean – doesn t mean that we re going to have unlimited monopoly dollars to hand to her, but I want to do my part in saving to help her avoid the chains that I fell when I graduated college, the cynicism that I had.
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And so it s a beautiful fresh start when it comes to money to go like, I get to raise this innocent, pure human to be a generous person, not only with their money.
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But with their time, their resources, I get to raise them in such a way that they spend wisely, that they learn delayed gratification, they learn how to save for things they want over time.
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And to me, it s a huge burden, but it s also a beautiful responsibility.
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Wow.
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So I m excited to lean into that.
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She barely can look at me in the eyes, but I m still looking forward to those days as we learn those lessons and she gets her first little Ramsey piggy bank and starts to understand
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Money comes from work.
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There s three things you can do with it.
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You can give, save, and spend.
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And so, you know, well, I m not going to have her doing a budget at three years old, but I think it s a really cool opportunity for any parent to raise their kid in such a way that they go, I got to be a part of
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raising a good human.
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And we need more of those in today s world.
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So if you re on the fence, if you re a good person and you re on the fence about having kids, please have the kids because there s a lot of stupid people out there having kids and we have to displace some of that.
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Sure.
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With some amazing humans.
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That s cool, George.
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I hope you enjoyed today s episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness.
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Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today s episode with all the important links.
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And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on Apple podcasts.
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Share this with a friend on social media, and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well.
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Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review.
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I really love hearing feedback from you, and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward.
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And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.
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And now, it s time to go out there and do something great.