0
SPEAKER_00
Hey everyone, this is Molly and Matt and we re the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart Podcasts.
0
SPEAKER_02
It s a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting.
0
SPEAKER_00
Like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone and so much more.
0
SPEAKER_02
Let s learn about all of it and then some.
0
SPEAKER_02
Listen to Grown Up Stuff How to Adult on America s number one podcast network, iHeart.
0
SPEAKER_02
Open your free iHeart app and search Grown Up Stuff.
0
SPEAKER_01
This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol.
0
SPEAKER_01
The joy they brought to the nation.
0
SPEAKER_01
You re free completely.
0
SPEAKER_01
No one is there to destroy you.
0
SPEAKER_01
The danger they endured.
0
SPEAKER_04
They said my head should be cut off.
0
SPEAKER_01
I m John Legend.
0
SPEAKER_01
Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
0
SPEAKER_04
Guess what, Will?
0
SPEAKER_04
What s up, Mango?
0
SPEAKER_04
I ve been trying to write a promo for our podcast, Part-Time Genius, but even though we ve done over 250 episodes, we don t really talk about murders or cults.
0
SPEAKER_03
I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese, so I feel like that makes us pretty edgy.
0
SPEAKER_03
We also solve mysteries like how Chinese is your Chinese food and how do dollar stores make money?
0
SPEAKER_03
And then, of course, can you game a dog show?
0
SPEAKER_03
So what you re saying is everyone should be listening.
0
SPEAKER_03
Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
0
SPEAKER_05
Just pull the car over.
0
SPEAKER_05
Stop driving in a direction that you think you should go in because you re directionless right now.
0
SPEAKER_05
Stop.
0
SPEAKER_05
Let all the cars drive past you and enjoy the fact that you re actually stopping.
0
SPEAKER_03
Zane Lowe.
0
SPEAKER_03
Zane Lowe, international DJ.
0
SPEAKER_05
Apple Music s creative director.
0
SPEAKER_03
I love you, Zane.
0
SPEAKER_05
I d rather just start.
0
SPEAKER_05
I don t really have a big introduction.
0
SPEAKER_05
I really genuinely thought, I m just going to live with these aches.
0
SPEAKER_05
This will be it for the rest of my life.
0
SPEAKER_05
Why would you want to live with pain?
0
SPEAKER_05
The harder you work, the more you achieve, the more you achieve, the more you tell yourself you re okay, the more you tell yourself you re okay not dealing with this shit.
0
SPEAKER_06
Before we jump into this episode, I d like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed.
0
SPEAKER_06
All I want you to do is click on the subscribe button.
0
SPEAKER_06
I love your support.
0
SPEAKER_06
It s incredible to see all your comments, and we re just getting started.
0
SPEAKER_06
I can t wait to go on this journey with you.
0
SPEAKER_06
Thank you so much for subscribing.
0
SPEAKER_06
It means the world to me.
0
SPEAKER_04
The best-selling author and host.
0
SPEAKER_01
The number one health and wellness podcast.
0
SPEAKER_05
On Purpose with Jay Shetty.
0
SPEAKER_06
How do you describe what do you do?
0
SPEAKER_06
How do you like to choose?
0
SPEAKER_06
Because I feel like when you have a role that is public, like I always get asked, what do you want your lower third to say?
0
SPEAKER_06
And I don t like being defined by the lists of roles and titles.
0
SPEAKER_06
So how would you describe what you do or what you believe in?
0
SPEAKER_05
I agree.
0
SPEAKER_05
I mean, I think roles and titles make it easier to work with other people with roles and titles.
0
SPEAKER_05
But I think in life, it s different.
0
SPEAKER_05
In my life, I m just a fan.
0
SPEAKER_05
I m just a I m a fan.
0
SPEAKER_05
I m someone who discovers something very early on in life that stuck with me.
0
SPEAKER_05
I knew it was going to be very special and important to my development, to my identity, to helping me find my way in life.
0
SPEAKER_05
And once I kind of made it a singularity rather than one of many hobbies, I just tried to immerse myself in as much of it as possible, like almost obsessively.
0
SPEAKER_05
And so I m just a big, big fan of what I love, which outside of my family and friends is music.
0
SPEAKER_05
So I m just a super fan.
0
SPEAKER_06
That is, I love that.
0
SPEAKER_06
That s such a great, cool way of defining yourself.
0
SPEAKER_06
With that, you ve sat down with obviously so many incredible artists and beautiful interviews.
0
SPEAKER_06
I ve watched your, one of my favorite interviews is yours with Harry Styles actually.
0
SPEAKER_06
I thought that was brilliant.
0
SPEAKER_06
But when was the first time you felt like a fan when you hadn t met someone?
0
SPEAKER_06
Like when was the first time you felt like a real fan when you didn t?
0
SPEAKER_06
sit opposite that person and you didn t know that person.
0
SPEAKER_06
And do you remember that moment?
0
SPEAKER_06
You mean like at a concert and stuff?
0
SPEAKER_06
At a concert or like when you bought your first record or like, where was that experience of your first moment?
0
SPEAKER_05
What a beautiful question out the gate, bro.
0
SPEAKER_05
Like what an amazing question.
0
SPEAKER_05
Um, the first time I really, I really realized that, um, it was chemical.
0
SPEAKER_05
It was, um, it wasn t really a,
0
SPEAKER_05
something by design, it was reactive, was probably going and seeing a band called Split Ends, which is arguably New Zealand s most influential and legendary band.
0
SPEAKER_05
They were around predominantly in the 70s and had a lot of success in the 80s.
0
SPEAKER_05
In the late 80s, they sort of splintered off and Neil Finn left to go and form Crowded House.
0
SPEAKER_05
And of course, everyone knows Crowded House and Neil Finn, Don t Dream It s Over.
0
SPEAKER_05
And he s had huge success and a huge career, has other members of that band.
0
SPEAKER_05
But in their heyday, when I went and saw them as a kid with my mom,
0
SPEAKER_05
I think being in that crowd and reacting the way I did to the music, which I don t really remember.
0
SPEAKER_05
My mom always told me that it was almost like an out of body experience.
0
SPEAKER_05
Like it was like I was in church or something.
0
SPEAKER_05
Like I wasn t listening to the music in the same way that she d seen me at home or she was looking left and right.
0
SPEAKER_05
I was somewhere else for the entire, yeah, in a way, in some kind of trance.
0
SPEAKER_05
And so that s when I think she realized, oh, this, it grabs this kid.
0
SPEAKER_05
And then I think also going and seeing Stop Making Sense, the movie by Talking Heads was when I realized, like, I wanted to get as close to, because it was different with Split Ends, they were right there on the stage, but seeing Talking Heads on that screen, and I made my mom take me to that movie two days in a row as a young person, but a little bit older, that was when I was like, oh, how do I get to them?
0
SPEAKER_05
Like they re on a big movie screen right now.
0
SPEAKER_05
How do I get to them?
0
SPEAKER_05
Like split ends is down the road, but talking heads is somewhere like they might as well be on Mars.
0
SPEAKER_05
You know?
0
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_06
That s a beautiful answer.
0
SPEAKER_06
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_06
I love the.
0
SPEAKER_06
I love the idea of firsts.
0
SPEAKER_06
I remember, I think the first movie I saw in theaters was Cool Runnings, which I loved.
0
SPEAKER_06
That was such a great first experience at the theaters.
0
SPEAKER_06
And I was like, wow.
0
SPEAKER_05
I don t know anyone who doesn t love that film.
0
SPEAKER_06
I know, it was just, it was such a great like first experience.
0
SPEAKER_06
And then my first album that I properly listened to, so it s weirdly, I talk about this, I haven t talked about this a lot, but it makes sense talking about it with you.
0
SPEAKER_06
Like I grew up in a home where I was encouraged to learn how to play instruments.
0
SPEAKER_06
But we never listened to a lot of music.
0
SPEAKER_05
Interesting.
0
SPEAKER_05
So it was more discipline than an enjoyment level.
0
SPEAKER_06
Correct.
0
SPEAKER_06
It was more like an extracurricular academic activity because it would look good on my resume when I applied to a better school later on.
0
SPEAKER_06
And it really.
0
SPEAKER_06
hampered my ability to love instruments.
0
SPEAKER_06
And so I grew up playing the piano.
0
SPEAKER_06
I did up to grade four in the piano.
0
SPEAKER_06
I did grade five theory.
0
SPEAKER_06
I played percussion.
0
SPEAKER_05
All the while not really knowing what listening to music, the feeling is, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_06
There was no feeling.
0
SPEAKER_06
And then I turned 12 or 13 when I kind of stopped doing that.
0
SPEAKER_06
And I was introduced to Eminem for the first time through a friend at school.
0
SPEAKER_05
So you went from studying an instrument and not really being exposed to the enjoyment of music to listening to Eminem?
0
SPEAKER_05
Yes, literally, that was it.
0
SPEAKER_05
That was exactly it.
0
SPEAKER_05
We don t want you eating any sugar in the house and then eventually, look, here s a six-tier chocolate death cake.
0
SPEAKER_06
Decadent and delicious and just, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_06
And I remember getting it from a guy at school and he had the Infinite album too, which was awesome.
0
SPEAKER_00
The first one?
0
SPEAKER_06
Yeah, the first one.
0
SPEAKER_06
And I remember putting it on and feeling like such a fan where, in a way that I ve never felt again maybe even, and that first is so important.
0
SPEAKER_06
But with you, what do you think s changed about
0
SPEAKER_06
your relationship with being a fan.
0
SPEAKER_06
You said you re still a fan, but what was it like being a fan back then and what is it like being a fan back now when you re so close to the industry?
0
SPEAKER_06
You are the industry in so many ways.
0
SPEAKER_06
You define what takes off, what doesn t.
0
SPEAKER_06
You re so close to it all.
0
SPEAKER_06
What has changed in being a fan?
0
SPEAKER_05
A lot, nothing.
0
SPEAKER_05
I mean, you know, the simple question is very little.
0
SPEAKER_05
I mean, the distance between who I was in that concert and who I am today is very, it s a very short distance.
0
SPEAKER_05
I still get the same sense of, I still, I can still find myself in that space where I m lost.
0
SPEAKER_05
You know, I can still put on music in my headphones and go for a walk and end up in floods of tears quietly on my own.
0
SPEAKER_05
You know, it s, it s something that is deep.
0
SPEAKER_05
It affects me deeply.
0
SPEAKER_05
And I haven t had to work to hold on to that.
0
SPEAKER_05
That s how I know I m in the right place in my life.
0
SPEAKER_05
You know?
0
SPEAKER_05
In terms of the industry side of it, that s a whole other conversation.
0
SPEAKER_05
I mean, everything s changed there.
0
SPEAKER_05
And I think finding myself in any room or in any seat or behind any microphone or in any conversation or in any studio to me was always a privilege.
0
SPEAKER_05
I didn t know how to get in those rooms.
0
SPEAKER_05
I didn t know how to do that.
0
SPEAKER_05
I didn t come from a background where the kind of music industry I wanted to move into or the area I wanted to move in my life made sense.
0
SPEAKER_05
My dad is from a radio background.
0
SPEAKER_05
So, okay, you can say that makes more sense, but
0
SPEAKER_05
wasn t my intention as a kid.
0
SPEAKER_05
I didn t wake up and want to follow in my father s footsteps.
0
SPEAKER_05
He knows this.
0
SPEAKER_05
I wanted to be in recording studios and make music my whole life.
0
SPEAKER_05
And I didn t know how to get there.
0
SPEAKER_05
And I didn t know what a music industry was.
0
SPEAKER_05
And I mean, there was no music industry really in New Zealand.
0
SPEAKER_05
And some might even argue that there is, but it s specific to that environment.
0
SPEAKER_05
It s not London, it s not New York, it s not Tokyo, it s not Germany, you know, wherever.
0
SPEAKER_05
So that is a
1
SPEAKER_00
journey that I can t even put into context myself.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think you know this more than anyone, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, stay in the moment, absorb the situation, learn and move forward.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I think I was doing that without even realizing it, because I couldn t have charted this path.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, that makes your journey even more fascinating to me because you re right.
1
SPEAKER_01
You didn t grow up in a space that naturally lended itself to the career you have today.
1
SPEAKER_01
Do you remember if you could track back for us, even before what consciously comes to mind, what was that first step you took to say, I m going to pursue this?
1
SPEAKER_01
Because I feel today it s really fascinating that there s even more choices in one sense, there s even more access, but.
1
SPEAKER_01
People who are listening today, even myself a few years ago, I found myself having the limiting belief and the...
1
SPEAKER_01
hopelessness almost of my dreams really far away.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t think it s possible.
1
SPEAKER_01
Those kinds of things don t happen to people like me.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m not set up to succeed.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, because I think at that, in that moment in time, and I felt that many times in my life, I think that what happens is we re at our most effective when we have some kind of singularity to focus on, you know, it s like, this is what I love.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is who I love.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is the person I most want to have this conversation with in my life right now.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is what I need to do to be healthy.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I think when we re focused on things that are ultimately giving us.
1
SPEAKER_00
purpose, we manifest without even realizing it, you know?
1
SPEAKER_00
And I think when we get into that place of hopelessness that you ve been in, I ve been in, others have been in and are in, it s when we split that singularity up into 55 things, a hundred things, a thousand things, a million things.
1
SPEAKER_00
At best, they contradict each other or counter each other.
1
SPEAKER_00
At worst, they actively fight for your attention.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you can t give your attention to everything.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so that s where you end up just standing still.
1
SPEAKER_00
questioning your own purpose, your own abilities because it seems hard just to take a step forward because there s so much noise that s around you.
1
SPEAKER_00
When I ve been at my most effective and best for myself is when I ve been least affected by that noise and the most focused on what I know is moving me emotionally and inspirationally in my life.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I ve never heard it put that way, but that resonates deeply.
1
SPEAKER_01
I remember I sat down with one of my spiritual teachers, probably when I was, I don t know, maybe like 10 years ago.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I said, I ve got all these ideas, I want to do all these things, but I don t know where to start.
1
SPEAKER_01
It was what you just described that like fragmented, distracted.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, static.
1
SPEAKER_01
Static, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I said to him, I just, I don t know where to start.
1
SPEAKER_01
And he said something beautiful to me.
1
SPEAKER_01
He said, open every door that you possibly can,
1
SPEAKER_01
And then he said, the doors that close, let them close and just keep walking through the ones that remain open.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s amazing.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it was, it was the best advice I ve ever got in life because I felt like all of us were just standing at one door or 10 doors, just trying to open all of them.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, all my wife says to me when I get like there, she s like, pull, not literally, and maybe sometimes literally, but she says, pull the car over.
1
SPEAKER_00
And what she means is that just pull the car over, stop driving in a direction that you think you should go in because you re directionless right now And you re actually possibly driving yourself further away from where you should be Pull the car over, stop, let all the cars drive past you and don t worry about where they re going Let the traffic go past you, don t worry about it, just enjoy the fact that you re actually stopping
1
SPEAKER_00
ignore the traffic, ignore everyone else, focus on where you want to go, choose your direction and focus on it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because right now and this is I mean, you know, when she s at a most lol, she s like, because right now you re veering all over the freeway.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like you have no idea where you re going.
1
SPEAKER_00
And, you know, it s to me that kind of it speaks a similar truth, which is
1
SPEAKER_00
We re all in everyday life entirely capable of being distracted and distracting ourselves and allowing ourselves to be distracted.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it s a part of life because it s noisy.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s really noisy.
1
SPEAKER_00
And especially the older you get, the more you see, the more you absorb, the more you try to own, the more you try to define yourself through the things you own.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is an awesome space, but you got stuff in here, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
At some point if you leave, you got to figure out where this stuff goes.
1
SPEAKER_00
Do you take it?
1
SPEAKER_00
Do you leave it?
1
SPEAKER_00
These are all decisions, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Everything s a decision.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I think that, you know, when we re probably most capable of making the decisions that ultimately charter a path of true holistic and spiritual and also just ambition level value is when we re focused on simplicity, simple things.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s true.
1
SPEAKER_00
Simple doors.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s true, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it s what I found really attractive is a peaceful mind and an internal simplicity
1
SPEAKER_01
allows for navigation of external chaos.
1
SPEAKER_00
It makes us more capable of moving through that thrash.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
Correct.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like I ve always thought about what I ve tried to work on a lot and I work on every day because I m not there yet is to refine my internal intention to be so simple and clear
1
SPEAKER_01
that then the external complexity, which naturally comes with being an entrepreneur and running a business and everything else that comes with trying to make an impact and trying to provide for your family and the people you love,
1
SPEAKER_01
But it s like the reason for doing it is just one little dot.
1
SPEAKER_00
I do.
1
SPEAKER_00
When I m at my most indecisive, I probably had a few nights drinking some wine.
1
SPEAKER_00
My work is really busy and I m not really seeing, I m not seeing it.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m not seeing the playbook for that week.
1
SPEAKER_00
And someone can call me and ask me the most simple thing and I can t make that decision.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it s because to your point, I ve clouded my own ability to be decisive.
1
SPEAKER_00
Um, and sometimes it s not, it s not my, it s not my decision.
1
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes it s just stuff going off around you.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, the thing is as well about, about trying to find that internal balance, that clarity internally is that that s where the most noises.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, this all pales to that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like think about every experience and every memory and everything and whether it s trauma or joy that we re absorbing all the time.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like that s why I love therapy so much.
1
SPEAKER_00
And if you can do it and you can afford it and it s something that you are willing to try, I m a big believer in it because to me it just creates space.
1
SPEAKER_00
It just helps you like down like 30% of the trash.
1
SPEAKER_00
And now I have space to fill it with stuff based on my learnings and what I truly know about myself.
1
SPEAKER_00
That is a value to me versus the stuff that I either inherited that I never wanted in the first place or stuff that I thought I wanted that is not actually good for me.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like just get rid of all that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it s a good, great way to clear out.
1
SPEAKER_00
And cause that is to me, the noisiest for me, that is way noisier than what s outside the store.
1
SPEAKER_00
Way noisier.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you say you re not there yet.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m never going to get there, Jay.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I love the process.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes, the pursuit.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I like the way you described therapy as a clear route, because I don t think that s how it s often always seen.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it s really interesting, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
We all know, I need to clean my wardrobe out.
1
SPEAKER_01
I need to get rid of some of my clothes.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it feels good when you do.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it feels good when you do, but we don t think about our thoughts that way.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we are finite.
1
SPEAKER_00
We have finite space.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think we have finite ability to be able to process, certainly emotionally,
1
SPEAKER_00
and the way that we process information and how it makes us feel.
1
SPEAKER_00
A lot of our feelings are wasted, are a waste.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because we get driven by ego or it takes us back to a time in our life we weren t happy or it triggers something that is unresolved and our feelings then dictate our actions.
1
SPEAKER_00
But if we re not...
1
SPEAKER_00
creating space for us to be able to fill ourselves with good things, then our feelings sometimes, again, our feelings just won t be, they won t honor us, I don t think.
1
SPEAKER_01
Wow, yeah, that you ve reminded me of a study that I read a while ago that said, and it may be different now because of just how fast things are changing, but it was saying that the human brain has the ability to compute like 74 gigabytes of data a day.
1
SPEAKER_01
but we are just filling it up with like we re easily consuming that much that isn t selected, cleared out, curated.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s just being filled up with what s coming.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we re always going to have to because we can t like controls fallacy and we can t dictate how our life works in terms of who gives us what information and how we process things and who tries to.
1
SPEAKER_00
you know, how we unload energy on each other.
1
SPEAKER_00
And that s just part of being a human and living in a society.
1
SPEAKER_00
But what it does allow us to do is to be conscious of that and to allow ourselves... The way I always look at it is like a meter in the red, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
If you look at those old kind of like, I don t know if they re giga meters or whatever, you ve got the needle here and the last kind of 10% is red.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s always red.
1
SPEAKER_00
The rest of it s white, everything s great, bad.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, good, bad, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
And if you haven t got the ability to be able to process it properly, then even if you wake up in the morning and you sort of back to sort of 30, because you re restless and you ve got some anxiety when you wake up, if you haven t got the space figured out, the smallest thing and you re back in the red, what I try to do is have it go like that.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then when it gets to about 70, figure out how I get it back down to 30.
1
SPEAKER_00
So if it does get in the red, I ve just, I ve got more of an ability to process and to manage those feelings.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, definitely.
1
SPEAKER_01
One of the things I wanted to go back a couple of steps was something you mentioned that was beautiful where you described your.
2
SPEAKER_01
trance-like experience almost of being lost.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it reminded me of the visual, which I think Baz Luhrmann did a great job of in the new Elvis movie.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like when you see- I like that movie.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I really liked the visual storytelling of it.
2
SPEAKER_01
And the music was spectacular.
2
SPEAKER_01
I thought the scenes of young Elvis having those trance-like experiences was really, really special.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I wonder, what did it feel like when
2
SPEAKER_01
Maybe when you were DJing, you were creating that you saw people having that kind of experience to you.
2
SPEAKER_01
How was it like almost being on the opposite end?
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, the reason that I chose to DJ in the first place was because I think there s always been a performative part of my nature that I sort of turn my back to stronger term.
2
SPEAKER_00
But as I found myself in the media side of things, I guess, connecting the artist to the fan, which I love to do.
2
SPEAKER_00
it meant I didn t really have so much of an outlet for that until I got to radio.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then I guess that started to come out in the way I broadcast in the way that I played records.
2
SPEAKER_00
It was very, I was very sort of like, and I still am, but very much during my time at the BBC, I was very active with the music.
2
SPEAKER_00
I liked to use effects and reverbs and sing along to the songs and pull them up and explode them and in them early.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I just saw them as things to kind of play with rather than just,
2
SPEAKER_00
Press play, sit back, think of something to say, wait for the song to end, say it, press.
2
SPEAKER_00
That is actually the most respectful way to treat music in the media.
2
SPEAKER_00
And my favorite DJs do that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Not all of them, but some of my favorite DJs are the ones who pull a song up and play it five times in 30 minutes and scream over it and get me excited and make me connect to the music in a different way.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s an example of the performative side of who I am.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so I started to get that outlet in radio.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then I was like, well,
2
SPEAKER_00
I miss being on stage, I miss being in front of crowds.
2
SPEAKER_00
How would I carve up space for myself as a DJ?
2
SPEAKER_00
And when I started to sort of carve out my identity as a DJ, I was trying to do so in a way that was built out of the kind of chaos that I love about music, the genre, an indefinable genre, violence of the clash.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like I don t know what they make half the time, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
The way the Bomb Squad made Public Enemy Records and Ice Cube Records and just
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, whoa, is that a chainsaw?
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, what s going on?
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, hang on, what did they just do?
2
SPEAKER_00
Did they stop that?
2
SPEAKER_00
The way the Beastie Boys did it with Paul s Boutique, you know.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I got all my stuff.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m going back to New York City.
2
SPEAKER_00
What the heck?
2
SPEAKER_00
I do believe I ve had enough.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, what are they dropping in?
2
SPEAKER_00
Where are they going?
2
SPEAKER_00
What s happening?
2
SPEAKER_00
Why is this happening?
2
SPEAKER_00
What s going on?
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, it s just full of surprises, left turns, right turns.
2
SPEAKER_00
The whole thing is just completely unpredictable.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I tried to do that.
2
SPEAKER_00
I say all that to say that I had to learn how to put people in a trance because most of the time I think I was just hurting them.
2
SPEAKER_00
Their sensibilities, at least, you know, I was just like, that was like, Whoa, and some kids got it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And we re like, this is awesome.
2
SPEAKER_00
And some kids were like, man, I just want a house mix.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, can you just like mix something and blend something, you know?
2
SPEAKER_00
So, I mean, my, I mean, for me, like the joy I got out when I was DJing and watching the way people reacted to music was just realizing that in that, in that moment in time,
2
SPEAKER_00
whatever else was going, and I m sure every artist would tell you this, who gets to step on a stage and do anything in that environment.
2
SPEAKER_00
Knowing that in that moment in time, whatever else has happened before or they re worried about happening after doesn t really matter.
2
SPEAKER_00
That as far as being in the moment is concerned, you get to share in that with people and you get to try to create an environment where that matters.
2
SPEAKER_00
And every DJ that I ve ever played with or toured with, the greats of all time right through to, you know, my friends.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s what really is that if you boil it down to its primary source, I think it s about creating a community and experience that exists in the moment that is free of the thrash of life and is really there to just inspire people to, yeah, go into that space that I was in as a kid.
2
SPEAKER_00
That and not have to socialize with people, which if you re socially anxious like me, then be a DJ.
2
SPEAKER_01
It protects you.
2
SPEAKER_00
You never have to speak to anyone again for the rest of your life.
2
SPEAKER_00
You don t want to, no one expects you to.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was going to ask you that actually, like you talked, you touched on like the importance of therapy and you re saying that s worked for you.
2
SPEAKER_01
What was it initially that guided you in that direction?
2
SPEAKER_01
A, how did you, why did you specifically choose to therapy as a modality to support you in whatever you were looking for?
2
SPEAKER_01
And what were you looking for from it?
2
SPEAKER_01
Parenthood.
2
SPEAKER_00
you know, I became a father and, um, I realized in that moment that I was ill prepared to beat, to, to share my best.
2
SPEAKER_00
Um, and so I had to do the work in order to be at my best.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I m incredibly grateful to my wife and to my friends and my family for encouraging me to do that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Um, at the time I was,
2
SPEAKER_00
at my lowest point, I think.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it was really hard.
2
SPEAKER_00
But in doing that work, my life just changed for the better in every way.
2
SPEAKER_00
And ultimately gave me the ability and the tools to be able to like and love myself enough to love the people that I love more than anything in the world completely.
2
SPEAKER_00
and without compromise.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think if I hadn t done that work, I think I would have always either felt compromised in my ability to love others, certainly love my kids and my wife and be loved.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think that, you know, that is the thing that really ultimately makes me the saddest is thinking back to
2
SPEAKER_00
that alternative and how that feels for people.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think to be loved and to love completely is the purpose.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think that is it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Someone who is feeling that sense of love and commitment has to let go for us to exist.
2
SPEAKER_00
And we have to let go to move on.
2
SPEAKER_00
And somewhere in the middle, it s just about the ability to be loved and to love.
2
SPEAKER_01
Do you think that
2
SPEAKER_01
you fell out of love with yourself or that you were never in love with yourself in the first place?
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s a great question.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_00
I was definitely loved my mom and my dad and my brother.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I come from a very loving family, but I think that it was a compromised environment in terms of, it was a divorced environment and.
2
SPEAKER_00
So you see sides of relationships in life and the family structure that are shocking to you as a kid.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s hard to figure out what your identity is to yourself, let alone what you need to be for everybody else.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, I wanted to fix it and I couldn t, I didn t have the tools.
2
SPEAKER_00
I was too young.
2
SPEAKER_00
I didn t know what to do.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I guess somewhere along the line, I just lost touch with the simple,
2
SPEAKER_00
ambitions of life, which are like, which is try to put yourself in an environment, which is as joyful as possible around people that you love and just try to find as much balance as you can.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I just think I, yeah, I don t know, man.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I definitely came from a background that was, it wasn t dissimilar to in terms of the cause and effect as billions of people.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, relationships start, relationships end.
2
SPEAKER_00
I love my parents.
2
SPEAKER_00
In the end, it was the right decision for them.
2
SPEAKER_00
It was very tough for me as a kid at that moment in time.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think what I had to do was take responsibility for that rather than either ignore it or project some kind of really pointless blame on a scenario that was completely out of my control.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s like, okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so the only way I could really sort of, the only point in my life I could do that was when I realized that I had something that was more important than the blame or more important than the ignoring.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that was being a dad.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s like, all right, like,
2
SPEAKER_00
I need to take responsibility for how I m processing this or not.
2
SPEAKER_00
Otherwise this beautiful future is, I m not going to get the most out of it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And neither are they.
2
SPEAKER_01
What kind of dad do you want to be and why?
2
SPEAKER_00
I want to be a father that
2
SPEAKER_00
and hope I am a father that provides our kids with a sense of unconditional love, a very trusting father who really leans into the principles that I hold dear, which are just love and support and honesty.
2
SPEAKER_00
I want our kids to know that, and they do,
2
SPEAKER_00
that I m happy if they re happy and I want them to work hard and I want them to be focused on it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And if they re lucky enough to find something they love, which both of them seem to have done, I want them to know that there s no substitute for the graft and for the work and, you know, for the dedication and being respectful and of your opportunities and making the most of them and keeping a keen, very sharp radar for when the door opens ever so slightly, know how to walk in and know how to stay.
2
SPEAKER_00
But equally, I just want them to be happy.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I want to be someone who they feel, like I said, they feel unconditionally understood.
2
SPEAKER_01
That takes a lot of work on your part.
2
SPEAKER_00
Especially considering that I didn t even understand myself.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I m very lucky.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean, if we re going to go there, we ll just go there.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like I, you know, I have this incredible partner for life and my wife who has been, I don t even know how to tell you, man.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean, she s just incredible.
3
SPEAKER_02
And.
3
SPEAKER_04
Sounds it for sure.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean, you get it.
3
SPEAKER_02
Even through the advice that you said.
3
SPEAKER_02
But you get it, but you get it, you get it.
3
SPEAKER_02
You find someone in your life that makes you better.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then you start to figure out how you can make them better because it can t go one way.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then you ve got, then you ve got something special.
3
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, my wife has exposed to me flaws that I would have hidden for so long from the world because I could, and then all of a sudden in a very non-judgmental and non-critical way,
3
SPEAKER_04
someone helps you realize, it s so subconscious as well, it s not even like a teacher, it s not like having a coach or a guide or someone who s telling you or showing you, it s just someone who effortlessly reveals to you parts of yourself that you know they re the only one that sees it.
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, love is an unspoken language a lot of the time.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean, that s why families, if you have a very loving unit around you, you re able to communicate without saying anything.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I think in a different way, when you develop your own family, your own relationships that, you know, ultimately grow with you over the course of your life, it becomes more of an individual experience that builds from within that out.
3
SPEAKER_02
The language changes again, but it s still an unspoken thing.
3
SPEAKER_02
How did you meet?
3
SPEAKER_02
Oh, wow.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean, Cara and I met when we were kids and, you know, I always say it was love at first sight for me.
3
SPEAKER_02
It just took her like 10 years to figure it out, but we weren t together.
3
SPEAKER_02
Took her 10 years.
3
SPEAKER_02
We weren t together for that time.
3
SPEAKER_02
New Zealand s small and we knew each other in certain circles and we were just kids growing up and running around.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then I moved to London and she followed about six to eight months after that, just on her own and just looked me up because we knew each other from back and back in the day and back home.
3
SPEAKER_02
And she didn t really know anyone out there.
3
SPEAKER_02
And she s like, Hey, I m out in London if you want to get a beer.
3
SPEAKER_02
And it s a true story.
3
SPEAKER_02
We went for a beer.
3
SPEAKER_02
at a pub, which I think is called the famous cock.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean, there s a lot of cocks in London that serve beer.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_02
There s famous cocks and there s roosters and cocks and there s like, you know, the Thames on Henley cock and there s lots of cocks.
3
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
So we went to one of those cocks, I think on Regent Street, and it was me, and I hope she doesn t mind me telling you this, but I m sure she wouldn t, because it s a great footnote in our story.
3
SPEAKER_02
It was me and a good friend of ours, who still is a good friend of ours, called Hose and Cat Deely, who I knew from MTV, who was just getting her break in MTV and doing some great stuff, even as a young person on TV.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so we all went for a pint, and that s how I reconnected with her.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then from there, our story started to unfold.
3
SPEAKER_02
and would have to drink wine to tell you the rest of that.
3
SPEAKER_02
But, you know, it s just long and brilliant and, you know, unique like everyone s story.
3
SPEAKER_02
But yeah, I mean, I ve known who s, I mean, I always joke I had to move halfway around the world to marry someone I d known.
3
SPEAKER_02
most of my life from home.
3
SPEAKER_04
How did, when you ve known someone for that long, I always wonder how you allow that growth on both sides, because I guess when you ve known someone for that long, you ve, you ve been three different people or at least more of who you are and she s becoming more of who she really is.
3
SPEAKER_04
Like, how have you continued?
3
SPEAKER_04
Cause you said you ve been over together for over two decades or something like that.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Nearly 24 years.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_04
24 years we ve been married.
3
SPEAKER_04
You said exactly.
3
SPEAKER_04
Which is,
3
SPEAKER_04
really long time, congratulations.
3
SPEAKER_04
Like how, was that conscious and intentional or you ve both just been flowing?
3
SPEAKER_02
To stay together that long?
3
SPEAKER_04
To stay together, but more importantly to, it seems and it sounds from what I m hearing that you ve kind of grown together during that time and allowed the growth.
3
SPEAKER_02
I think you can stay together unless you grow together, otherwise you grow apart.
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, you know, we got, we got married quickly, you know, we were together and it was like, oh, this is meant to be.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then for one reason or another,
3
SPEAKER_02
our marriage was really dictated by other things.
3
SPEAKER_02
It was like a visa issues and she ll have to go home.
3
SPEAKER_02
And because we didn t have a, I could stay in London, she couldn t.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so, it really came down to like, look, if there s a future for this, then this has to be the only way forward.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so we got married and...
3
SPEAKER_02
It was in a registry office and with two witnesses, you know, and it was short of telling our parents, which we did about two weeks beforehand.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean, we would have eloped.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean, it was so fast.
3
SPEAKER_02
And, you know, I think both of us felt like it was forever, but I think it s kind of too simplistic to say that we were dead.
3
SPEAKER_02
I think we were just trying to keep it going.
3
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
I think we were just like, look, this is really great.
3
SPEAKER_02
We don t know what the future holds, but if you have to leave and I stay, it s going to make it that much harder for us to find out.
3
SPEAKER_02
And in a way that works for the kind of people that we are.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean, not to speak for her.
3
SPEAKER_02
I m very conscious not to do that because she s her own person, but, um,
3
SPEAKER_02
You know, I think I think both of us just liked finding out, and we re still finding out.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I think that s what s cool about it is that we didn t go into it with some kind of major pressure with no disrespect.
3
SPEAKER_02
I ve been to some incredible weddings, and I think you should be entitled to celebrate your union however you want.
3
SPEAKER_02
But for us, not feeling a bit with sort of
3
SPEAKER_02
150 pairs of eyes on us, you know, like this is for life, everybody.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like, I mean, it just, it just suited us to just get going, just get to work.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like we just work at one day and we re like, let s just get to work.
3
SPEAKER_02
And we have, and we ve been working at it ever since.
3
SPEAKER_02
And it takes work, but I guess someone said to me once, you know, even, even the days when it seems like it s really hard work the next day, like anything in life, the hard work pays off.
3
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, absolutely.
3
SPEAKER_04
So just so you know, we had 400 people at our wedding and I ll tell you why.
3
SPEAKER_04
Because in an Indian household, your parents are obliged to invite every person that s ever invited them to their kid s wedding.
3
SPEAKER_03
So you could literally, you could start the ball rolling early and just invite everybody whether you know them or not.
3
SPEAKER_03
And then just be like, I am set for the rest of my life.
3
SPEAKER_03
I have so many great experiences I m going to have.
3
SPEAKER_03
And they only get better, right?
3
SPEAKER_04
So it s like literally my parents and my wife s parents have a list of people that have to be invited to the wedding because they ve been to their kids  weddings.
3
SPEAKER_04
Love that.
3
SPEAKER_04
And so half the wedding list is- You re like, who are these people?
3
SPEAKER_04
I mean, we don t know.
3
SPEAKER_04
Like my wife still talks about it.
3
SPEAKER_04
We re like walking around at our reception saying, hello.
3
SPEAKER_04
And my wife s like, I have no idea who this person is.
3
SPEAKER_04
And that s small for an Indian wedding.
3
SPEAKER_04
Like I have friends who had like 500 to a thousand people at their wedding.
3
SPEAKER_04
We were somewhat
3
SPEAKER_02
In a way it s not dissimilar because it s not like you re signing like some kind of emotional contract for these people.
3
SPEAKER_02
It just comes down to the union, to the team.
3
SPEAKER_02
And it s like it either works or it doesn t.
3
SPEAKER_02
I don t hold my parents.
3
SPEAKER_02
I don t have any ill will to all my parents or hold them responsible for the end of their marriage.
3
SPEAKER_02
It just ceased to exist.
3
SPEAKER_02
And it happens all the time.
3
SPEAKER_02
I ve got good friends going through it right now.
3
SPEAKER_02
I just think for us, we try to keep things really simple.
3
SPEAKER_02
We make each other laugh, like a lot.
3
SPEAKER_02
And if it s not the same thing, it s at each other.
3
SPEAKER_02
She gives that to me, like she really dishes out a lot, you know, like you re a moron kind of stuff, you know?
3
SPEAKER_02
And I am, so it s an easy joke.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then I think beyond that, we like each other s company.
3
SPEAKER_02
And we know that we re not always going to agree, but we know that it s not going to, it s not going to get in between the simple principles that keep us together.
3
SPEAKER_02
She s just smarter, better, way hotter.
3
SPEAKER_02
You know, she s just, I definitely married her.
3
SPEAKER_04
It s beautiful.
3
SPEAKER_04
You talked about having a social anxiety and, you know, being a DJ and talking about how we were joking about how it s easier to get away with that.
3
SPEAKER_04
But obviously in your career, there s been so many opportunities, as you said, with your children, you want them to be able to walk through the door and stay there.
3
SPEAKER_04
And that requires one to kind of
3
SPEAKER_04
negotiate through that social anxiety sometimes i m sure you ve had to walk into the rooms and pitch yourself and hold your own and negotiate and then stand your ground and whatever it may be talk to lawyers and you know there s so much to it when you re in and i feel like there s so many people who are listening and watching where social anxiety is at a point where it cripples them it stops them from walking into rooms starting that conversation what was
3
SPEAKER_04
What were you saying to yourself?
3
SPEAKER_04
What were you working on in order to move through some of those uncomfortable experiences?
3
SPEAKER_00
Guess what, Mango?
3
SPEAKER_00
What s that, Will?
3
SPEAKER_00
So iHeart is giving us a whole minute to promote our podcast, Part-Time Genius.
3
SPEAKER_01
I know.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s why I spent my whole week composing a haiku for the occasion.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s about my emotional journey in podcasting over the last seven years, and it s called Earthquake House.
3
SPEAKER_00
Mango, I m going to cut you off right there.
3
SPEAKER_01
Why don t we just tell people about our show instead?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s a better idea.
3
SPEAKER_01
So every week on Part-Time Genius, we feed our curiosity by answering the world s most important questions.
3
SPEAKER_01
Things like, when did America start dialing 911?
3
SPEAKER_01
Is William Shatner s best acting work in Esperanto?
3
SPEAKER_01
Also, what happened to Esperanto?
3
SPEAKER_00
Plus we cover questions like how Chinese is your Chinese food?
3
SPEAKER_00
How do dollar stores stay in business?
3
SPEAKER_00
And of course, is there an Illuminati of cheese?
3
SPEAKER_00
There absolutely is.
3
SPEAKER_01
And we are risking our lives by talking about it.
3
SPEAKER_01
But if you love mind blowing facts, incredible history and really bad jokes, make your brains happy and tune in to part
4
SPEAKER_04
Genius.
4
SPEAKER_04
Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
4
SPEAKER_00
A new season of Bridgerton is here.
4
SPEAKER_00
And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m your host, Gabrielle Collins.
4
SPEAKER_00
And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
4
SPEAKER_00
Colin Bridgerton has returned from his travels abroad.
4
SPEAKER_00
Is Betrothal written in the stars for the eligible bachelor?
4
SPEAKER_00
Meanwhile, the ton is reverberating with speculation of who holds Lady Whistledown s pen.
4
SPEAKER_00
We re discussing it all.
4
SPEAKER_00
I sit down with Nicola Coughlin, Luke Newton, Shonda Rhimes, and more to offer an exclusive peek behind the scenes of each episode of the new season.
4
SPEAKER_00
Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
4
SPEAKER_00
Then, fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
4
SPEAKER_00
Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday.
4
SPEAKER_01
Hey everyone, this is Molly and Matt and we re the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart Podcasts.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting.
4
SPEAKER_01
like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone, and so much more.
4
SPEAKER_02
We re back with season two of the podcast, which means more opportunities to glow up and become a more responsible and better adult, one life lesson at a time.
4
SPEAKER_01
And let me just tell you, this show is just as much for us as it is for you.
4
SPEAKER_01
So let s figure this stuff out together.
4
SPEAKER_01
This season, we re going to talk about whether or not we re financially and emotionally ready for dog ownership.
4
SPEAKER_02
We re going to figure out the benefits of a high yield savings account.
4
SPEAKER_01
And what exactly are the duties of being a member of the wedding party?
4
SPEAKER_02
All that plus so much more.
4
SPEAKER_01
Let s learn about all of it and then some.
4
SPEAKER_01
Listen to Grown Up Stuff How to Adult on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
4
SPEAKER_04
It s case by case.
4
SPEAKER_04
You know, my friend was having a function the other night, beautiful function, a total, a reason to celebrate.
4
SPEAKER_04
And I, I, I nearly was like, I can t go.
4
SPEAKER_04
There wasn t any valid reason for me to not go in my mind from a cerebral kind of, Oh, that makes sense.
4
SPEAKER_04
None of it made sense.
4
SPEAKER_04
And then there are times when, you know, I m skipping out the door.
4
SPEAKER_04
It just depends.
4
SPEAKER_04
I mean, for me, in terms of like breaking it up into two things, because you make, you made some good points, like in terms of like the social side of it, I try to be kind to myself.
4
SPEAKER_04
I try to allow myself the space to make a decision that s as pressure free as possible.
4
SPEAKER_04
And then more often than not, I find good valid reasons to continue forward.
4
SPEAKER_04
I feel that if I apply too much pressure on myself, most of it s unreal and then I ll end up just not going anyway and then I ll feel bad because the unreal will evaporate and I realize that I made a decision that wasn t based in the real So I know myself enough to get ahead of that and just be like, you don t have to do anything, don t go
4
SPEAKER_04
And once I just tell myself that I m like, Oh, well, there s a couple of good reasons to go, you know, and I started to bring myself forward on that in terms of the work side of it and getting in the room.
4
SPEAKER_04
I don t know what to tell you.
4
SPEAKER_04
I mean, the few times when I ve, when I ve, I know that I ve had to step up and do something that s ultimately helped change the shape of my journey and therefore my family s journey or whatever.
4
SPEAKER_04
That s when you start getting into the intangible a bit for me.
4
SPEAKER_04
into the sort of the magic of the moment and what makes performers, athletes, surgeons, I mean, I m going lofty, but anybody, I mean, some heroes, people do out of body things.
4
SPEAKER_04
It s nowhere near on the same level.
4
SPEAKER_04
And I m not trying to put like getting in a room and pitching your best shit at the same thing, but it exists in the same space of like, I don t quite know why, what s motivating this extra gear.
4
SPEAKER_04
But I m using it.
4
SPEAKER_04
And I think true greatness comes from people who know how to access it more consciously than I do at this point in my life.
4
SPEAKER_04
You know, you re talking about, you know, the Michael Jordans of this world who can the Beyonce s of the sword who are like, I can, you know, they don t shy away from the occasion, they level up.
4
SPEAKER_04
They see it, they know what it is, they understand.
4
SPEAKER_04
And I m just talking about the arts now, respectfully to everybody else.
4
SPEAKER_04
Like, cause if I start going in apologizing for every other outlet or occupation or thing in life, that s more important than the arts to everyone else, then I m just going to end up in like the position and this podcast is going to be over.
4
SPEAKER_04
So I m just focusing on your.
4
SPEAKER_03
I know how it goes.
4
SPEAKER_04
I know how it goes.
4
SPEAKER_04
There s more important things in life than music and the arts.
4
SPEAKER_04
I get it and I respect it, but for me, that s the world I m in.
4
SPEAKER_04
So I m just going to focus on that.
4
SPEAKER_04
So in the performing arts, you know, I watch, I watch people all the time, step up further than they have before.
4
SPEAKER_04
And I just think it s something in us that is there.
4
SPEAKER_04
And sometimes the occasion requires it.
4
SPEAKER_04
And sometimes you d meet someone who has found a way to harness it.
4
SPEAKER_04
And that is when you start dealing with like the greats, like the people who just, they see it, they manifest it, it happens, but then they recognize that it s happening.
4
SPEAKER_04
And then they recognize the feeling.
4
SPEAKER_04
And then they remember that feeling, and then they practice that feeling, and then they get the ball in with 0.3 seconds to go every time.
4
SPEAKER_04
And that s like, that s when you re dealing with just another level.
4
SPEAKER_04
I m not there, but I ve had a few moments in my life when that gears kicked in and I love it.
4
SPEAKER_04
I mean, you know, the job I m in now.
4
SPEAKER_04
I mean, I nearly got on a plane and flew home because I just was like, I don t know where this is going and I m unhappy.
4
SPEAKER_04
I don t think I don t feel, I don t feel like I can do this.
4
SPEAKER_04
And I had a big meeting the next day and I went the next day and I had a great meeting and it changed everything.
4
SPEAKER_04
So who knows, man?
4
SPEAKER_04
I mean, it just comes out of nowhere, but I m more interested in the people who just somehow know how to like kick that shit into action.
4
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_04
Because they exist.
4
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, absolutely.
4
SPEAKER_03
They exist.
4
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_03
There s a beautiful book called Flow.
4
SPEAKER_03
I don t know if you ve ever come across it.
4
SPEAKER_03
I forget the author s name.
4
SPEAKER_03
It s like Mihaly
4
SPEAKER_03
i think it s a name if i mess it up everyone please do not be mad at me i think it s cheek sent me hi i think that s how it said me hi chick sent me hi the books called flow.
4
SPEAKER_03
And that s what you re describing this flow state that people experience where you see freestylers rappers musicians you know athletes artists where.
4
SPEAKER_03
Time stops, but it s really fast and no one knows what s happening.
4
SPEAKER_03
Like it almost feels like time slows down and speeds up at the same time.
4
SPEAKER_04
I ve had a couple of conversations in that state, weirdly, like on the record, like, like interview situations where it s like, there s been such a nice mood in the room.
4
SPEAKER_04
And I feel it is such a strong.
4
SPEAKER_04
like to and fro going on until it s the question, the answer, and then the question, the answer.
4
SPEAKER_04
And it s just been, I m like, wow.
4
SPEAKER_04
And then someone s like, okay, time it s been going for like two hours.
4
SPEAKER_04
I m like, it was like that.
4
SPEAKER_04
I mean, you must ve done it too.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s lovely.
4
SPEAKER_04
It s really cool when it happens like that too, because it s human experience with somebody else.
4
SPEAKER_04
So it feels really nice.
4
SPEAKER_04
I also, you know, my social anxiety, I think, I think it s, it s, it s unique for everybody.
4
SPEAKER_04
I mean, I have no problem walking in a room and being around people, but there s a difference between being present and,
4
SPEAKER_04
fitting in or playing a role that you think is going to serve a purpose for that environment or that party or whatever.
4
SPEAKER_04
And just being able to be comfortable in yourself.
4
SPEAKER_04
That s what I m talking about.
4
SPEAKER_04
Like I m not always and very often entirely comfortable.
4
SPEAKER_04
I just, I ve just figured out how to maintain.
4
SPEAKER_04
But there s always something in me that s, I felt that like my skin s a little bit too tight or my brain s not really focused on what someone s asking me.
4
SPEAKER_04
And I m, I guess that s where I m, that s my form of social anxiety.
4
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_03
And I think I find that most people at events, especially in the entertainment and the arts feel that way.
4
SPEAKER_03
I don t know many people who don t feel that way.
4
SPEAKER_03
That s good to hear.
4
SPEAKER_03
I mean, I definitely do.
4
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, whether it s at an award show or whether it s at a red carpet or whenever I speak to people behind the scenes, that s the number one emotion that people are experiencing and everyone s feeling it in a different way about themselves.
4
SPEAKER_03
So why do you think that is?
4
SPEAKER_03
I think it s because
4
SPEAKER_03
the way events are organized, they re not crafted for community and connection.
4
SPEAKER_03
So the challenge is that the way it s been built is not set up for people to come in and feel.
4
SPEAKER_03
So I went to one place that was, I went to Cannes Lions last week.
4
SPEAKER_03
I d never been to the Lions Festival before.
4
SPEAKER_03
It was my first time there, been to Cannes.
4
SPEAKER_03
And it was crafted for community.
4
SPEAKER_03
Like, I felt like you could walk into any space, you connect with people, you could hang out with people, you bumped into people walking in and out of stuff.
4
SPEAKER_03
No one had an ego where people were like, you know, on a high horse.
4
SPEAKER_04
And maybe that s part of our evolutionary state.
4
SPEAKER_04
I mean, we always talk about how-
4
SPEAKER_03
five years of that festival.
4
SPEAKER_03
That s what I m saying.
4
SPEAKER_04
And maybe we need to actually just start looking at every single micro experience rather than like, we re all going to evolve.
4
SPEAKER_04
Like something s going to happen.
4
SPEAKER_04
We re all going to evolve.
4
SPEAKER_04
It s like, maybe we are, maybe it is just like right down to the smallest thing, like an event like that, where being able to walk in there and for you to feel connected to people and like you came away with something that was meaningful, not just valuable.
4
SPEAKER_04
Maybe that s, that s going to inspire people to do, to do it in multiple different places.
4
SPEAKER_04
I mean,
4
SPEAKER_04
I would like that.
4
SPEAKER_04
I ve gotten bitter at just maintaining it.
4
SPEAKER_04
Like when you re younger, it s like, Oh my gosh, everything risks on this night.
4
SPEAKER_04
And then after a while you re like, can we go?
4
SPEAKER_03
That s exactly what it is.
4
SPEAKER_03
You re spot on.
4
SPEAKER_03
That s exactly what it is.
4
SPEAKER_03
Like when you first, I remember that when I first moved to LA, I went somewhere.
4
SPEAKER_03
It was like, Oh my God, if I don t make this move right now, that s the end.
5
SPEAKER_01
of my career and then like years later you re like actually it didn t affect it at all.
5
SPEAKER_01
Someone asked a friend of mine who I was working with at the time, someone in the industry was like, is Zain afraid of success?
5
SPEAKER_01
When I first got to LA because I wasn t in 65 parties a night running around doing everything and then yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah and my goals become very clearly and my intention is always like can I find one person tonight who I can bare my soul to?
5
SPEAKER_00
Like is there one person that I can
5
SPEAKER_00
fully be myself, because then at that event, I ve fully been myself.
5
SPEAKER_00
So how do you know who that person is?
5
SPEAKER_00
I know it probably changes, but is there a constant to that?
5
SPEAKER_00
You can get a sense pretty quick, obviously, and like we re saying, it s respective to what you personally are interested in.
5
SPEAKER_00
So for me, I m, I m hoping that I can have a conversation like I m having with you today, which is meaningful, it s purposeful, it s vulnerable, it s, it s open, it s thoughtful, it s about growth, it s about being better.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like, but when I walked in the house today and we met for the first time and we sort of held each other s gaze for a second and it was like, all right, cool, we ve got this moment here.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like, it s more than just like transactional, like, all right, if we re gonna do this, let s do this and let s start and see where this relationship goes in the future, right?
5
SPEAKER_01
It s not just gonna be like, good to be on your podcast, next.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like, is there a technique to how you find people?
5
SPEAKER_00
I wouldn t say it s a technique.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think it s more of a intuition.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, I do believe it s energetic as opposed to like,
5
SPEAKER_00
ask these three questions.
5
SPEAKER_00
I don t think I have a formula like that, but I feel like you can usually tell by someone s language, body language, and emotional language as to whether you re on the same frequency or vibration.
5
SPEAKER_00
I find over time I ve been able to
5
SPEAKER_00
to sense that.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I ve also realized where your ego wants to force it with someone because there s personal gain or there s importance.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s big self-awareness energy right there.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
You can tell when it s like, oh, there actually isn t a frequency, but I m pretending there is, or hoping there is, or trying to manufacture it because I think this person could do something for me, or I m useful to them, or I feel significance because I m being useful to them.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
I think also realizing that you don t want to be that to someone, but also someone s trying to be that to you.
5
SPEAKER_01
Correct.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s really important for anybody going into any, any area of life.
5
SPEAKER_01
And it s something that I think people should try to develop that radar from a young age because it ll save you so much time and energy.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
And also it s fine to acknowledge that you re doing that to me and I m doing that to you because we re in a trade.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s totally fine.
5
SPEAKER_01
Great work, great things come out of that.
5
SPEAKER_01
But friendship is different.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m really realizing how important my friendships are.
5
SPEAKER_01
And there are multiple types of friendships.
5
SPEAKER_01
There are people I love to just hang out with and sometimes some of them I like to talk industry with and music with.
5
SPEAKER_01
And they re not the people I m going to call up and have a heart to heart with about someone else.
5
SPEAKER_01
And there are others that I know I can call up when I m in a low point or they can call me and there is that.
5
SPEAKER_01
I think it s just understanding that.
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, we all serve, we all serve a purpose.
5
SPEAKER_01
And if you re in someone s life, you ve got a purpose.
5
SPEAKER_01
Just understand, try to understand what that purpose is.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s what being thoughtful with your thoughtfulness is to me.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like maybe I m not the person to pick the phone up and check on someone s wellbeing.
5
SPEAKER_01
Cause that s not the kind of friend I am to that person, but they have those friends.
5
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t mean I m not their friend.
5
SPEAKER_00
Correct.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
We have different relationships with different people in our life that, that serve us in different ways.
5
SPEAKER_00
And we serve in different ways.
5
SPEAKER_00
And knowing how you do that for someone is, is so important.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s really important, and yeah, that s a big self-awareness lesson, I think.
5
SPEAKER_01
It took me a while to figure that out.
5
SPEAKER_01
I was always trying to be all things to everyone, I think, for a lot of my life.
5
SPEAKER_01
Trying to fix everything, be all things, be this, be that, be funny, be caring.
5
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes just be funny, or not, just try.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s a great point, I love that.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s actually really powerful to think that.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think you re so right, we want to be all of ourselves to everyone.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, cause we re covering all the bases.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, covering all the bases.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
And, and we, there s that subtle ego in like, we want to be considered funny and this and smart and this.
5
SPEAKER_01
How do you manage your ego in a situation like this where you, where you, I mean, you said at the very beginning, you have the number one health podcast in the world.
5
SPEAKER_01
Congratulations, by the way, like that s, that s a real thing to have a number one of anything, but to have a number one in an area where you re adding so much value and support to people.
5
SPEAKER_01
but the very nature of a number one anything is really, that s just like, you know, bourbon for the ego, right?
5
SPEAKER_01
It s like number one is like, by its very nature is connected to an ego experience.
5
SPEAKER_01
How do you continue to build around success, but manage, what s your relationship like with your ego in this environment?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s a, I would say it s a constant conversation on a daily basis between my conscious self and my ego self.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think that,
5
SPEAKER_00
it s something I have to be vigilant of on a daily basis because of the world we live in and the environment we re in.
5
SPEAKER_00
Just someone that I mentor messaged me this morning and he s kind of having a real moment in his career and things are going well.
5
SPEAKER_00
And he was saying the same thing to me.
5
SPEAKER_00
He goes, Jay, I don t think this is healthy for me.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, I m worried about my ego.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, this is amazing.
5
SPEAKER_00
The fact that you re even aware and you re conscious and you re, because 99% of the time you have the success and then it falls apart and then you think about your ego.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so for me, I,
5
SPEAKER_00
There are a few things that I do.
5
SPEAKER_00
The first thing is that I always look at how I compare to the work I really want to do.
5
SPEAKER_00
So the impact I really want to make in the world is not
5
SPEAKER_00
just downloads or views or whatever else or numbers.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s actually, I m trying to create a journey for everyone that connects with my work from entertainment through to education through to personal enlightenment in how they define that term.
5
SPEAKER_00
And to me, it s like I m trying to create that journey by building steps that I know from the journey that I ve been on, the journey that I m still on, and the journey that I ve learned from the greats, and trying to put those building blocks in place for people.
5
SPEAKER_00
And my goal is, unless I m helping people walk that journey, the number is insignificant.
5
SPEAKER_00
But the beautiful thing is, because by the way, I m not anti-ego, like ego serves an important role.
5
SPEAKER_01
No, this is a great conversation.
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, there s ego and it, and those two things need to be managed in a way that, like I said, a sense of self-awareness and understanding of what is gonna press your buttons, both positive and negative.
5
SPEAKER_01
But what I m interested in is like, it s interesting, because you re building this thing internally from within your own vision, what inspires you, it s come from this tiny little fire that you re building into this beautiful thing that helps people, but you can t help
5
SPEAKER_01
more people without your ego serving a purpose, a role.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes, absolutely.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so I think engaging it and being aware of it are the only two options you have.
5
SPEAKER_00
Because I think that when you try and ignore that, there were probably even times in my life where I tried to suppress the desire to do and make an impact because you think it s ego.
5
SPEAKER_00
not realizing that then it s just brewing and now you re envious of everyone else.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s why the word humility is so interesting to me, right?
5
SPEAKER_01
Because we kick around humility all the time, like it s a really important, positive part of our makeup.
5
SPEAKER_01
And it is.
5
SPEAKER_01
It can be.
5
SPEAKER_01
There s a time to be humble.
5
SPEAKER_01
There s no universally sort of
5
SPEAKER_01
positive humility and there s no universally negative ego.
5
SPEAKER_01
Complexities cross both of them, but it s interesting, isn t it?
5
SPEAKER_01
Like you can find yourself, if you deny your ability and what you love and your talent and your ambition too much, you find yourself in a false state of humility.
5
SPEAKER_00
And you can t help the people you want to help.
5
SPEAKER_01
So it s ultimately turning your back on what you should be doing.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and to me ego when it gets dangerous is when you feel better or worse than others.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so I feel like there s a difference between doing what you think you re meant to do and doing it well than thinking you do it better.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like I am friends with so many people in this space who do
5
SPEAKER_00
who are number one in their fields, and even in a similar field in a different way.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, I know a phenomenal set of scientists in this space who are doing incredible health and wellness work and are number one in the way they do it.
5
SPEAKER_00
But it s like, I have my own version and I have my own way and method.
5
SPEAKER_00
And that s what I m excited and have an ego about, I guess, is the idea that I m doing what I m doing, but it doesn t make me better than someone or worse than someone.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I think- So interesting.
5
SPEAKER_01
though, because growing up like in music, there is an innate competitiveness of wanting to be the best.
5
SPEAKER_01
And in sports, you won t find a coach that will look you in the eye and tell you that that attitude is going to get you to be the best in the world, right?
5
SPEAKER_01
So it s so interesting how we relate to this thing that I think we know very little about.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, which is why I think some of the best athletes, like I know that Cristiano Ronaldo, who s the biggest football and soccer star in the world for anyone.
5
SPEAKER_00
Is he though?
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean him and Messi.
5
SPEAKER_01
We just did a little Rolling Stones Beatles thing.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, exactly.
5
SPEAKER_00
The world is divided.
5
SPEAKER_00
My TikTok feeds me Cristiano Ronaldo.
5
SPEAKER_00
My one feeds me Messi.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, there you go.
5
SPEAKER_00
We re a complete human being.
5
SPEAKER_00
And now we re in the US and so Messi, everyone s excited because Messi s coming to Inter Miami.
5
SPEAKER_00
Get on board, man.
5
SPEAKER_00
And he s awesome.
5
SPEAKER_00
And my point being that whenever he does an interview, I always see him say,
5
SPEAKER_00
I have to think I m the best in the world.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like I have to think that way is what he ll say.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I think that s really interesting language because he s not saying I am, or I definitely am.
5
SPEAKER_00
He s saying, I have to think that way in order to perform at my best.
5
SPEAKER_00
So he s dividing it into a mentality versus a reality.
5
SPEAKER_00
Correct.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s beautifully said.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, exactly.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I think that that s what s so fascinating that if you sat down with Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant, who I had the pleasure of interviewing, or today LeBron, it s like,
5
SPEAKER_00
I m sure they have to feel that way.
6
SPEAKER_00
But it s where they re like, if they were, you know, all things said and done behind closed doors, you know, I m sure they have an opinion on stuff that you can say when you re retired too, that you couldn t say when you were playing.
6
SPEAKER_00
Are you a manifesta?
6
SPEAKER_00
I would honestly say I ve been an accidental, unintentional manifesta.
6
SPEAKER_00
So I don t believe that I ever set out to say, okay, I believe in manifestation.
6
SPEAKER_00
I know how it works and I m going to do it.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t think I ever had that.
6
SPEAKER_00
I ve just had things happen in my life where I can track back when I first visualized it in my mind and then it came to fruition, but I never intended for that to happen.
6
SPEAKER_01
And so when that happened, did you ever have the intention to try to kind of do it more or master it or anything else?
6
SPEAKER_01
Or were you just like, I love the curiosity of that.
6
SPEAKER_01
I like to let it happen.
6
SPEAKER_00
I love the curiosity and I love the magic of it because that also makes me realize that it s beyond me and I like that humility.
6
SPEAKER_00
I love that.
6
SPEAKER_01
Okay, so the mystery of it is, that s cool.
6
SPEAKER_00
That surrender of it that I don t, I love the idea that it s happening and it s happened in my life so subconsciously that it also makes me recognize that there is more than me to this.
6
SPEAKER_01
I would say I m more like you than I am like some of the other people who I know who, you know, are continually searching for that feeling that they can then
6
SPEAKER_01
And with some success, again.
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah, I know people who I consider to manipulate material energy, like they have that they have that ability.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I don t that Ryan Reynolds, Ryan Reynolds is a master manifesto.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I m so sorry, but you cannot take Rexham.
6
SPEAKER_01
and do that unless you know how to bend energy forms.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, absolutely.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s the point.
6
SPEAKER_00
I sell billion dollar telecom companies.
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah, that mint.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I don t think there s a right or wrong again.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like I don t think someone who focuses on manifesting in the sense that the way it s been packaged or marketed is a bad thing.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s just not the way I function.
6
SPEAKER_00
Can I ask you another question?
6
SPEAKER_00
Is it cool if I ask you a question?
6
SPEAKER_00
This is a real conversation.
6
SPEAKER_01
I want to I want to talk to you about ambition, like what your relationship is with your ambition, because you have a big you have, you ve already built something massive, and you want to continue to reach more people.
6
SPEAKER_01
So how do you manage your ambition into something that is balanced with your life?
6
SPEAKER_00
I think it s evolved over time.
6
SPEAKER_00
So I ve always honestly said that when I first started, I was working 16 to 18 hour days and seven days a week, but I never missed meditating.
6
SPEAKER_00
And that was always my grounding practice.
6
SPEAKER_00
I was like, I m going to meditate and I m going to work my socks off because I kind of had that moment of, or at least what I ve heard when you were saying that about your kids, like I remember the first time I felt the door open and I was just like, I never believed this door would ever open.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like I have to be so grateful and responsible for this.
6
SPEAKER_01
And that was through meditation?
6
SPEAKER_00
That was, no, no, no.
6
SPEAKER_00
That was, oh no, spiritually that had happened.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, like externally with building a platform.
6
SPEAKER_00
Got it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Got it.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like when you realize like, wow, I have a shot.
6
SPEAKER_00
I have an opportunity to do this in a, like I was happy and content and anyone who knows me the back then would verify this.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like I was happy and content.
6
SPEAKER_00
doing what I do today for the 10 people that showed up every week for 10 years.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I was so happy.
6
SPEAKER_00
I didn t feel like, oh, there s not enough people or like, oh my God, I m not like, I just felt grateful and happy that even 10 people would show up.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I loved it.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then at one point I did feel, I was like, I feel this message matters.
6
SPEAKER_00
The people that are coming are having great success from it.
6
SPEAKER_00
I think it should reach more people.
6
SPEAKER_00
So I should attempt to.
6
SPEAKER_00
And when I attempted and I had that first glimpse,
6
SPEAKER_00
Then I was like, wow, I m so grateful and I should be responsible for this.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I shouldn t take this, I should take this as a gift.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I should give my heart and soul to it, not just live off this momentary, you know, success.
6
SPEAKER_00
So for me, that s to me, the graft was me expressing my gratitude back to the universe to say, I see that you ve given literal me a shot.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I feel my only way of expressing my thanks and appreciation back to you for this gift is to show you that I m willing to work to make the most of it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Correct.
6
SPEAKER_00
So that was like a couple of years where I did that.
6
SPEAKER_00
As soon as I started doing that and things started to grow externally, I started to realize, all right, this is not sustainable, like on an energy level.
6
SPEAKER_00
And so then I cut back.
6
SPEAKER_00
So then I was like, I m only going to work five days a week.
6
SPEAKER_00
So I took my weekends back.
6
SPEAKER_00
I was still working evenings.
6
SPEAKER_00
Now I m at a point where I ve taken my weekends and my evenings back.
6
SPEAKER_01
Because that to me is like, that s the crucial moment where perhaps some like maturity and some life and some distance between youthful ambition, the desire that I ve got to go and take every opportunity I can versus where you were at that moment in your life really served you.
6
SPEAKER_01
Because that s the moment when I think it can,
6
SPEAKER_01
consume people and relationships get hurt or get torched.
6
SPEAKER_01
And we chase something so far down the road that we forget where we wanted to go in the first place.
6
SPEAKER_00
Totally.
6
SPEAKER_01
So yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s a really great point.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I think for me, it was like- That was a turning point for you that moment, right?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
And at the beginning, it was just like, all right, all that matters is this and my wife.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like those are the only two things that mattered.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t really have time for anything more than that.
6
SPEAKER_00
And now I m at a point where working backwards, where I have the privilege of only working 9am to 6pm and don t work evenings or weekends.
6
SPEAKER_00
And now I can take care of my wife and my friends and my family.
6
SPEAKER_01
Because you re in the era of no.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I think there was an era of complete yes and there has to be.
6
SPEAKER_00
And there has to be.
6
SPEAKER_00
There has to be.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I don t want to lie about not...
6
SPEAKER_00
Like perfect balance.
6
SPEAKER_01
You can t get to know without figuring out like where your line is.
6
SPEAKER_01
And you can t figure that out unless you push yourself.
6
SPEAKER_01
And that s what work is.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s what the working era is like when you just grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, grind, grind.
6
SPEAKER_01
And, and, but yeah, I m a, I m a fan of, of,
6
SPEAKER_01
balance, I was talking to someone about this the other day about ambition, because I have friends of mine who are never going to stop.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I love them for that.
6
SPEAKER_01
And they just to them, to them, it s all out there.
6
SPEAKER_01
And why would they ever not grab every opportunity or explore the next thing and no numbers too big and opportunities to too far away.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I and I love it.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I ve definitely been that.
6
SPEAKER_01
in my own way.
6
SPEAKER_01
But I m reaching a point in my life, which isn t to say I m going to turn down opportunities, or I m willing, I m winding down, I m not in semi retirement mode, I want to I want to do my best work over the next 10 years.
6
SPEAKER_01
But I want to do it in a way that is joyful.
6
SPEAKER_01
And to your point, really make gratitude like the number one driving force.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think to be truly grateful, you need to allow yourself space to be grateful.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think we kick the word gratitude around a lot.
6
SPEAKER_01
I know I ve been definitely the kind of person who s like done a hundred things in a day.
6
SPEAKER_01
And then when I ve had two minutes in a day gone, I m really grateful.
6
SPEAKER_01
I thank you so much for and it s like, it s not a checklist item.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like, you got to feel it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I think to do that.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I guess that s what meditation provider I d never been able to find the space to meditate and calm my mind down enough.
6
SPEAKER_01
I know I will.
6
SPEAKER_01
I just can t force it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
You have a naturally Zen energy though.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s cool.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s like, I would have thought you were a meditator, which is quite nice.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
You, you have that.
6
SPEAKER_00
The, I always said like, I mean, and Kobe Bryant did meditate, but he was the most, like he had the most gravity around him of any person I ve ever met.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like he was just like time, like things stood still when he spoke and there was that, but he did meditate.
6
SPEAKER_00
But I feel like you have a real, like, there s a, there s a peace around you, even though it s not, you know, if it s not from that, which is really beautiful in and of itself.
6
SPEAKER_00
Hard earned peace.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
Hard earned peace.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
But, but I think it s true.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like, I think also, you know, it s what we re saying about the yes and no, there s also a different time in life for
6
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes it s scale, sometimes it s speed, sometimes it s strategy, sometimes it s sincerity.
6
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes it s, you know, like it s, I think what you realize is that if you just go speed, speed, speed, speed, speed, like that doesn t actually make any sense.
6
SPEAKER_01
Well, you miss your opportunities more than you actually grab them, I think.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you think about like being a Formula One racer.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s not speed at every turn that helps them master the track.
6
SPEAKER_00
Speed s a massive part of it, but- Only when you need to go fast.
6
SPEAKER_00
Only when you need to go fast.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like round the bend, if you just go fast, cause you re like, no, no, no, I just got to beat the other guy.
6
SPEAKER_00
You could potentially turn over and throw the, you know, the race away.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s why I love boxing so much.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like I ve just started to like, like do boxing training and stuff.
6
SPEAKER_01
My wife boxes.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s the most fun.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s the greatest exercise I ve ever done.
6
SPEAKER_01
I ve struggled with exercise my whole life.
6
SPEAKER_01
Fits and starts like everybody else.
6
SPEAKER_01
No pun, well, pun very much intended.
6
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, this is a whole other level.
6
SPEAKER_01
I love it, right?
6
SPEAKER_01
And the reason I love it is because my mom has dementia and she s in the latter stages of dementia, I feel.
6
SPEAKER_01
And it s been really tough to witness, but I ve also watched her sort of want to hold on to memories.
6
SPEAKER_01
And the whole cognitive awareness thing has become very present for me.
6
SPEAKER_01
And what I love about boxing is that it s really, it s 100% mind and body and it s about strategy and it s about people just think you just bash stuff.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s so not.
6
SPEAKER_01
The most tiring thing I do when I m working out boxing is the inside work.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m not actually punching anything.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m just trying to push this guy off.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like that s the most exhausting thing out of any of it.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like that punching the mitts is like just rhythm.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s the driving fast.
6
SPEAKER_00
Correct.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
And that s what I mean.
6
SPEAKER_00
I think we just live in one mode of like speed or, or slow.
6
SPEAKER_00
We think, we think those are the only two things to play with.
6
SPEAKER_00
And when you box or if you drive a car or whatever, maybe you start going, Oh wait, there s, there s so many other dials to play with here.
6
SPEAKER_00
And so I think I m trying to, you know, I ve, I ve realized that.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I also realized that it s the same as a hike, like getting up the hill is different as staying at the top and getting
7
SPEAKER_00
down again and going deep into the valley, like, yeah, it requires a different skill set.
7
SPEAKER_00
And so I try and you know, I try and live a very disciplined life health wise in order to be able to be high performing.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I value all of that.
7
SPEAKER_00
Like the high performance world, like I value all that.
7
SPEAKER_01
Do you have cheat days, though?
7
SPEAKER_01
Do you allow yourself a chance to slip out of routine?
7
SPEAKER_00
Always.
7
SPEAKER_00
I mean, you have to.
7
SPEAKER_00
Like this morning was one of those mornings.
7
SPEAKER_01
Well, you just got back off tour for a start, so you re all over the show, right?
7
SPEAKER_00
No, no, no, no, I wasn t.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s the thing.
7
SPEAKER_00
I allow myself like small windows and then I go back.
7
SPEAKER_00
But like this week, I haven t missed a single workout.
7
SPEAKER_00
And this morning, last night, I told my friends that I was going to work out with today.
7
SPEAKER_00
I go, guys, I m sleeping in tomorrow.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m burnt.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m not going to be there.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m tired.
7
SPEAKER_00
So I woke up an hour and a half later than I usually wake up today.
7
SPEAKER_00
It was the best thing I ever did.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I loved it.
7
SPEAKER_01
Do you sleep well?
7
SPEAKER_00
I sleep.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s a big thing for me.
7
SPEAKER_00
I actually read you.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s been something you ve had to work through, right?
7
SPEAKER_01
Like, dude, I ve never been, I m not a good sleeper.
7
SPEAKER_01
I mean, you know, what s crazy.
7
SPEAKER_01
And I was telling a friend of mine, who s in a band about this this morning, because she was like, I m just trying to kind of come down off tour.
7
SPEAKER_01
And I said, listen, man, let me give you a bit of advice.
7
SPEAKER_01
And I know it s going to work for you.
7
SPEAKER_01
And I m telling you, like, I read somewhere, something ages ago, where Rick
7
SPEAKER_01
Ruben said that he goes out every morning when he wakes up and exposes himself to natural light.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
7
SPEAKER_01
First thing he does is expose himself to natural light.
7
SPEAKER_01
And then I, someone else said it and someone else said it and I was like, all right, this is like too many things pointing in this direction.
7
SPEAKER_01
So
7
SPEAKER_01
And I haven t had a good night s sleep in a long time.
7
SPEAKER_01
And so I started going outside and it was so strange.
7
SPEAKER_01
It was such an alien experience for me to stand out in my yard at like six 30 in the morning, like in my boxer shorts, like, like I feel like a weirdo.
7
SPEAKER_01
This is really weird.
7
SPEAKER_01
And then the second day felt less weird.
7
SPEAKER_01
And the third day felt less weird.
7
SPEAKER_01
And I started putting shorts on.
7
SPEAKER_01
Cause I was like, you know, I m going to enjoy this.
7
SPEAKER_01
Um,
7
SPEAKER_01
I have been sleeping like, like I wake up and my head is just like heavy on the pillow and I m just rested.
7
SPEAKER_01
Like that works.
7
SPEAKER_01
That circadian rhythms thing.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s crazy.
7
SPEAKER_01
Like, yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, no, they re all ancient practices though.
7
SPEAKER_00
I know you do yoga too.
7
SPEAKER_00
And so the ancient yoga asana is called the Surya Namaskar.
7
SPEAKER_00
So what that means is sun salutations.
7
SPEAKER_00
And so the ancient practice was the first thing you do in the morning is you salute the sun, which was that bathing and gazing and paying respects to the sun.
7
SPEAKER_00
And that was what was happening.
7
SPEAKER_00
Like your circadian rhythm was kicking off.
7
SPEAKER_00
Now you re on that circuit.
7
SPEAKER_01
And we sit there and we read that and we think, oh, it s only a worship to the sun.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s all worship based.
7
SPEAKER_01
But actually it can be worship based and it can also be lifestyle related.
7
SPEAKER_00
They were figuring out how to get
7
SPEAKER_00
a good night s sleep.
7
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
They were figuring out how to get vitality and energy as well.
7
SPEAKER_00
And that s what they were paying gratitude to the sun for.
7
SPEAKER_00
And your day started with gratitude, but for everything, not just for being the sun, but for the light, the heat, the warmth, I mean, for everything that it provides.
7
SPEAKER_00
Right.
7
SPEAKER_00
So
7
SPEAKER_01
So we have all this literature and all these opportunities, like even in this conversation, to be able to just dive into all of this.
7
SPEAKER_01
And there ll be the people who roll their eyes and they re probably not listening or watching, and there ll be the people who are open and absorbing and ready to sort of try and make positive changes and help others further down the line.
7
SPEAKER_01
But where do you think we re going wrong?
7
SPEAKER_01
Like if the ancient species were saluting the sun, increasing their ability to be able to manifest good things,
7
SPEAKER_01
understood the power of gratitude, understood the power of rest, understood what they needed in order to maintain that this is thousands of years ago.
7
SPEAKER_01
Why do you think we seem to be getting either further away from that or trying to get back to that, but we haven t actually gone on from that?
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s a, it s a big question.
7
SPEAKER_00
And one place I really experienced it beautifully was when I was in Hawaii and every morning.
7
SPEAKER_00
Which island?
7
SPEAKER_00
We were on the big island.
7
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
7
SPEAKER_00
So in Kona.
7
SPEAKER_01
Kauai is like.
7
SPEAKER_00
I ve heard, I need to go, I need to go.
7
SPEAKER_01
I ve never ever been to a place where the, the energy, the ley lines and the oxygen coming out from the ocean is so intense.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s amazing.
7
SPEAKER_00
I need to go next year and you ll have to give me all the recommendations.
7
SPEAKER_01
No, I ve got no recommendations.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s not that kind of place.
7
SPEAKER_01
The beautiful thing is it s just pure local.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s not like a go here, go here, go here.
7
SPEAKER_01
Just rent and just get a really awesome little Airbnb near the ocean.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s my recommendation.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s it.
7
SPEAKER_00
Okay, good.
7
SPEAKER_01
And just barefooted to the coffee store every day.
7
SPEAKER_00
I love it.
7
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, sorry.
7
SPEAKER_00
No, no, no.
7
SPEAKER_00
And so I remember in Hawaii, we d get like a kayak every morning.
7
SPEAKER_00
One of their, I forget the official name of this big like canoe kayak.
7
SPEAKER_00
They have a name for it.
7
SPEAKER_00
jumped in we d go out there they d pay their respects to the sun they had their own offerings which i loved learning about they d offer it to the water like so what i find that where we ve gone wrong is that we ve unlearned and reconditioned to a new way of working so hard and so strong and for so long that undoing that
7
SPEAKER_00
and resetting our habits to be healthy for us is the biggest challenge.
7
SPEAKER_00
So discipline is 99% of the challenge.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I think the problem is that because if you think about school, which was the only thing that had the opportunity to discipline us and parenting, those are probably the only two things that you have.
7
SPEAKER_01
Certainly our introduction to it.
7
SPEAKER_00
Your introduction to it.
7
SPEAKER_00
As school discipline, you always knew what you were going to do.
7
SPEAKER_00
You always knew what the next grade was.
7
SPEAKER_00
You knew what the next class was.
7
SPEAKER_00
It was all mapped out for you.
7
SPEAKER_00
You never actually had to discipline yourself.
7
SPEAKER_00
And so when that runs out at age 18 or 21, whenever you finish school,
7
SPEAKER_00
you now are left to your own devices to figure out discipline and you ve never actually been taught how to build a habit, how to break a habit, how to grow discipline, how to end discipline, right?
7
SPEAKER_00
And that s really what s missing.
7
SPEAKER_00
Like my wife has single-handedly coached me to better eating habits.
7
SPEAKER_00
than anyone ever has in my life.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I had to live with her every single day, you know, for the past seven years for her to do that for me.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I m like, well, if I didn t live with her, I don t think I would be able to do these health changes.
7
SPEAKER_00
Like to me, eating pizza, burgers, you know, a Sprite or a 7-Up, like that was my like every other day.
7
SPEAKER_00
And then all of a sudden I marry my wife and she s just like, you know, I m sure that as doing, yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
And you know, like, and I m like, well, wait a minute, it took that much coaching and guidance and steer.
7
SPEAKER_00
So I don t think anyone s at fault.
7
SPEAKER_00
I think it s more that society set us up.
7
SPEAKER_00
to not know how to, the biggest skill you can learn is how to build a habit and how to break a habit.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, because one of the best things that we re capable of doing, but we tend to use against ourselves is the ability to absorb and translate.
7
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
7
SPEAKER_01
And it s like, all right, if you can manipulate that, if you know how to put things in, because we re really complex, but also quite simple.
7
SPEAKER_00
Totally.
7
SPEAKER_00
Everything s a routine, right?
7
SPEAKER_01
Everything s a pattern.
7
SPEAKER_01
It takes one person to do something cool.
7
SPEAKER_01
And we re quite a sync.
7
SPEAKER_01
We live in a singularity pretty quickly.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s just like, you know what I mean?
7
SPEAKER_01
It s just like, Oh, that s cool.
7
SPEAKER_01
Let s all do that.
7
SPEAKER_01
Right.
7
SPEAKER_01
We all do it.
7
SPEAKER_01
And so, yeah, it s, it s interesting, isn t it?
7
SPEAKER_01
Like I think you re right.
7
SPEAKER_01
We allow ourselves and, and to your point about discipline, we need to have the confidence in our own abilities and in our own determination to be disciplined enough to do what s right for ourselves.
7
SPEAKER_01
Right.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
Because otherwise I think,
7
SPEAKER_01
we are susceptible to the shiny lights.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, of course.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I think that discipline comes ultimately through going, what is truly valuable to me.
7
SPEAKER_00
It goes back to what you were saying that that singularity of not having this fragmented approach to, I want to be this and I want to be this for that person.
7
SPEAKER_00
I want to do that.
7
SPEAKER_00
You know, it s, it s, well, what do I, what do I care about?
7
SPEAKER_00
You used to overwork too, right?
7
SPEAKER_00
Like that was a big,
7
SPEAKER_00
Big thing for you.
7
SPEAKER_00
Did it lead to, did you ever get to that brink of burnout and pain and that s what shifted you?
7
SPEAKER_00
Yes, absolutely, man.
7
SPEAKER_01
I had physical pain for like five years.
7
SPEAKER_01
Chronic pain, like?
7
SPEAKER_01
I wouldn t say it was chronic.
7
SPEAKER_01
It was a consistent, there were consistent pains.
7
SPEAKER_00
Where in the body?
7
SPEAKER_01
Arm, finger.
7
SPEAKER_01
neck, lower back, hip.
7
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
7
SPEAKER_00
A lot.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
A lot of pressure points.
7
SPEAKER_01
And a lot of it really was, well, there s a couple of things going on there.
7
SPEAKER_01
There was some, there was some, some stuff I had to process from one side of the brain to the other that I hadn t done.
7
SPEAKER_01
So it was stuck in my body.
7
SPEAKER_01
So once I actually started to work that through in therapy.
7
SPEAKER_00
And you did that all through therapy, that shit.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
100%.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
My guy put me to sleep.
7
SPEAKER_01
Once he basically broke it down for me, I was like, for 20 minutes woke up and three weeks later things started to dissipate.
7
SPEAKER_01
But also I was absorbing a lot into my body of the work and the stress and the overwork.
7
SPEAKER_01
Because I didn t have anywhere else to put it.
7
SPEAKER_01
And so my body was trying to protect me.
7
SPEAKER_01
It was like, well, we ll store it.
7
SPEAKER_01
But after a while, that body gets filled up and then it starts to ache and hurt and the pain starts to happen.
7
SPEAKER_01
I really genuinely thought I m just going to live with these aches.
7
SPEAKER_01
This will be it for the rest of my life, right?
7
SPEAKER_01
As long as it doesn t kill me, I can live with it.
7
SPEAKER_01
Why would you want to live with pain?
7
SPEAKER_01
So I m so glad that I was able to kind of start to unlock that.
7
SPEAKER_00
So verbal release, all the therapy you did was traditional therapy?
7
SPEAKER_01
It was more even just a concept that actually
7
SPEAKER_01
in my mind, in my brain, I have been storing it in an area where my brain is telling me to put it all in here.
7
SPEAKER_01
And what I need to do is to create space in here to put it somewhere, which has infinitely more ability to be able to process and distribute and remove and release.
7
SPEAKER_01
So I needed to get it over there.
7
SPEAKER_01
And as simplistic as that sounds, it just worked for me.
7
SPEAKER_01
I mean, it was a concept and perhaps it s rooted in truth and perhaps it s not.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m sure there ll be people who are saying,
7
SPEAKER_01
and other people who d be like, ah, that s exactly right.
7
SPEAKER_01
But the way that it was explained.
8
SPEAKER_01
me was that I had been storing it in my brain because I didn t have the ability to be able to deal with it emotionally and so I didn t want to.
8
SPEAKER_01
And so once I figured out that I didn t have anything to be afraid of, just talk it through, get it out, release it, let it go, it started to transfer and the pain started to disappear.
8
SPEAKER_00
That s the first time I ve heard about that therapy.
8
SPEAKER_00
That s cool.
8
SPEAKER_01
But I was working through it.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
Like working around the clock.
8
SPEAKER_01
Because again, it s a great distraction, isn t it?
8
SPEAKER_01
You know, getting up and going to work is a great way to spend your time avoiding things that you don t really want to deal with and it s also more productive.
8
SPEAKER_01
So the harder you work, the more you achieve, the more you achieve, the more you tell yourself you re okay, the more you tell yourself you re okay not dealing with it.
8
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
8
SPEAKER_00
So it s like, okay, you know, and the opposite, the opposite is also true, which is why back to your argument of balance, like the opposite is also true, where you if you re too idle, and there s no direction, and there s no pursuit, and there s no work.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, for sure.
8
SPEAKER_01
There s an infinite amount of ways to do it.
8
SPEAKER_01
I m just that s how I did it.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
And, and, you know, there s a difference between working hard and and working and working hard, right?
8
SPEAKER_01
Like, like, for me, it s like, I love to work and I love to work hard.
8
SPEAKER_01
But I don t have to work hard to be working.
8
SPEAKER_01
Well, right, I can I can, I can do it in a way that is like,
8
SPEAKER_01
you know, efficient and good for my balance, excuse me, good for my balance, my decision making got better, my ability to delegate got better, I became less stressed out about the things that I didn t have any reason and or right to be stressed out about.
8
SPEAKER_01
I stopped feeling a need to respond to every single email and every single thing.
8
SPEAKER_01
And I started to trust the process and I don t know, you have to ask my colleagues, but I feel like I m happier and better at what I do.
8
SPEAKER_01
So yeah, I m a, I m a big believer in, in just because you re putting the hours in doesn t mean you re actually getting the most out of it.
8
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
8
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
8
SPEAKER_00
You ve sat with so many of the, you know,
8
SPEAKER_00
most iconic artists of our time and this generation.
8
SPEAKER_00
And, you know, you, you re a brilliant interviewer.
8
SPEAKER_00
You ask awesome questions.
8
SPEAKER_00
You listen so effectively.
8
SPEAKER_00
Like it s, it s fun to watch, like genuinely fun to watch.
8
SPEAKER_00
Who do you feel was like wise beyond their years or like an old soul, but because most of them are young, like a lot of, a lot of them are very young.
8
SPEAKER_00
Who did you find was kind of like.
8
SPEAKER_01
You know, I find the conversations that leave me most inspired and
8
SPEAKER_01
feeling like something in my life has changed and I ve learned something new tend to come from the people who reached a point in their life where they re not trying to sell something anymore.
8
SPEAKER_01
And they don t have to do this.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s, there s some value in the conversation and perhaps they re looking for learning themselves.
8
SPEAKER_01
The truth is more often than not, I find elements of that in everybody because I m not
8
SPEAKER_01
trying to squeeze juice out of the lemon.
8
SPEAKER_01
I m genuinely not trying to sell anything at this point in my life.
8
SPEAKER_01
I love music, so it s easy for me to talk about it and to say it s great and to back and forth about it.
8
SPEAKER_01
But I don t feel any need and I don t feel there s any requirement for me at this point in my life
8
SPEAKER_01
to try to sell anything.
8
SPEAKER_01
When I go into the conversation, and I don t know if I was going to answer your question, because no one immediately sprang to mind because I think I m not, I m not existing in a hierarchy anymore.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
8
SPEAKER_00
That s a beautiful answer.
8
SPEAKER_01
I m not, I m not thinking like this person surprised me, or this person was not charming, or this person was wise beyond their years.
8
SPEAKER_01
If you d asked me that five years ago, I could have given you an answer like that.
8
SPEAKER_00
That s a beautiful answer.
8
SPEAKER_00
I love that.
8
SPEAKER_01
I m trying to go into every conversation, whether it s Little Yachty or Neil Young or Billie Eilish or, you know, whatever.
8
SPEAKER_01
I m just trying to go into a conversation from a position just like us of what is the most interesting and human experience that I can have.
8
SPEAKER_01
And I remove as much of the cell as I can.
8
SPEAKER_01
And I try to get into a place with people where
8
SPEAKER_01
Like I don t really have questions anymore and I don t really go in with a framework anymore.
8
SPEAKER_01
I just try to feel the music, retain how it makes me feel and just get to that as much of that feeling as I can in the conversation.
8
SPEAKER_01
And so.
8
SPEAKER_01
Everyone is surprising and everyone catches me off guard with their observations because I m not going in with any prior observations or any kind of premeditated framework.
8
SPEAKER_01
I m not coming in and going, I think I know what you re like.
8
SPEAKER_01
And I will say that the one only time I ve ever had a proper, like long form conversation with Justin Bieber changed.
8
SPEAKER_01
That s what changed it for me because I thought I was going to get a great conversation focused on an album.
8
SPEAKER_01
that served the purpose that the label and the management and the artists wanted it to serve and serve the purpose that Apple Music wanted it to serve.
8
SPEAKER_01
And I would get something out of it too.
8
SPEAKER_01
And that conversation became something very different very quickly.
8
SPEAKER_01
And I realized that he wasn t interested really in selling anything either on that day.
8
SPEAKER_01
And that was the moment that I learned how to listen and stopped trying to control the narrative and gave myself the space to go with it
8
SPEAKER_01
and not panic.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s just a moment.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s just people.
8
SPEAKER_01
Stay present, listen, observe and try and figure it out.
8
SPEAKER_01
So from that point forward, everybody that I ve spoken to really, I get there with everyone in some way, shape or form.
8
SPEAKER_01
If that makes sense.
8
SPEAKER_00
Makes so much sense.
8
SPEAKER_00
Makes beyond sense.
8
SPEAKER_00
I love it.
8
SPEAKER_01
Every time I d have a conversation with anyone before that, I would come in with so many different metrics of, you know, questions and orders and this and that and expectations and whatnot.
8
SPEAKER_01
You know, if you ever get a chance to sit, if you haven t already opposite Neil Young, you cannot go into it with that.
8
SPEAKER_01
He has no interest.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s like, this is all that matters.
8
SPEAKER_01
And if you think you re gonna be able to sort of carve out some shape with him, then he s just gonna be like, look, man, like it s not what I m here for.
8
SPEAKER_01
I m not interested in it.
8
SPEAKER_01
So I really like this.
8
SPEAKER_01
I like this.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I love that.
8
SPEAKER_00
Thank you for saying that.
8
SPEAKER_01
I don t know what to do with the old method anymore.
8
SPEAKER_01
I used to have one.
8
SPEAKER_01
I just don t know what to do with it.
8
SPEAKER_01
And every now and then I find myself falling into it because I m worried and I can t stick to it.
8
SPEAKER_01
Everything you need to know is in the answer, right?
8
SPEAKER_01
Every question you need.
8
SPEAKER_00
You have a structure when you re untrained and then when you re trained, it s spontaneous.
8
SPEAKER_00
It s like a,
8
SPEAKER_01
I just wasn t listening, Jay.
8
SPEAKER_01
I was just going in and trying to figure it all out before it even happened, which is very in line with who I was and who I ve been through my whole life.
8
SPEAKER_00
And how people are trained too, I think sometimes, right?
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I m just terrified.
8
SPEAKER_01
I m a very anxious person.
8
SPEAKER_01
I got to know that, you know, my therapist always says, you know, anxiety is based on not knowing the outcome, right?
8
SPEAKER_01
You re scared of what the outcome is going to be.
8
SPEAKER_01
And so, you know, I need to prepare for every outcome.
8
SPEAKER_01
And at the end of the day, what I really need to do is just start and listen and it will be what it will be.
8
SPEAKER_00
Zain, this has been such a special, honest, open conversation.
8
SPEAKER_00
I ve loved every bit of it.
8
SPEAKER_00
And we end every On Purpose interview with a fast five.
8
SPEAKER_00
So these are questions we do ask everyone.
8
SPEAKER_00
And every question has to be answered with one word to one sentence maximum.
8
SPEAKER_00
So it s short answers.
8
SPEAKER_00
So Zain Low, these are your fast five.
8
SPEAKER_00
The first question is... Do they change every time?
8
SPEAKER_00
No.
8
SPEAKER_00
Four out of five stay exactly the same.
8
SPEAKER_00
Okay, hit me.
8
SPEAKER_00
So the first question which we ve asked everyone who s ever been on the show is,
8
SPEAKER_01
Be yourself because everyone else is taken.
8
SPEAKER_01
Nice.
8
SPEAKER_00
Second question.
8
SPEAKER_00
What is the worst advice you ve ever heard or received?
8
SPEAKER_01
Eat that it s not that hot.
8
SPEAKER_00
All right.
8
SPEAKER_00
Question number three.
8
SPEAKER_01
Hot ones at me.
8
SPEAKER_01
Seriously, hot ones call me.
8
SPEAKER_01
My kids won t ever respect me until I m on that show.
8
SPEAKER_00
I love that.
8
SPEAKER_00
Question number three.
8
SPEAKER_00
What is the one thing that if you d want your children to remember every day, what would it be?
8
SPEAKER_01
You are loved and you can love.
8
SPEAKER_00
Love that.
8
SPEAKER_00
Question number four.
8
SPEAKER_00
What s something you re trying to unlearn right now?
8
SPEAKER_01
That I don t have to wash my hands every time I touch a surface and I don t have to check the taps.
8
SPEAKER_01
I m always trying to unlearn my OCD compulsions.
8
SPEAKER_00
How does that affect life?
8
SPEAKER_00
What is that?
8
SPEAKER_01
It s because I ve been in my life for so long that I think the most frustrating thing is I m just, I m used to it.
8
SPEAKER_01
That s what frustrates me the most.
8
SPEAKER_01
If I ever stop and take a step back and realize and actually try to have a step back for myself and realize what I m doing and what it must look like, not that I m ashamed of it or that I worry about what other people think of it, just for my own sense of awareness, I get very frustrated and really try to tell myself like,
8
SPEAKER_01
If you don t do this routine, the world is not going to end.
8
SPEAKER_01
And I have varying degrees of success.
8
SPEAKER_00
And that s hard.
8
SPEAKER_01
But I m always trying to unlearn it.
8
SPEAKER_00
Fifth and final question that we ask every guest on the show.
8
SPEAKER_00
If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
8
SPEAKER_01
That we would allow ourselves the privilege of listening to each other before we act, that we would do our best to understand.
8
SPEAKER_01
There are many points of view and that, that level of understanding and ultimately that knowledge would
9
SPEAKER_02
allow us to come together to fix things and not keep breaking things.
9
SPEAKER_02
So needed.
9
SPEAKER_02
Zane Lowe, everyone, if you ve been listening or watching wherever you are, whether you re walking your dog, whether you re cooking, driving, whether you re at home, whether you re at work, wherever you are, thank you so much for listening and tuning in.
9
SPEAKER_02
I hope that you ll tag me and Zane with the things that you love, the things you re gonna talk about this week because of this podcast, the things you re gonna share with your friends and your family that resonated strongly with you.
9
SPEAKER_02
Please tag us both on Twitter or on Instagram, on TikTok, on any platform you use, sharing your favorite clips.
9
SPEAKER_02
I love seeing what connects with you all.
9
SPEAKER_02
And I hope this conversation is connected with you all as it has with me.
9
SPEAKER_02
So thank you for listening.
9
SPEAKER_02
And Zane, thank you for your generous time and energy and presence.
9
SPEAKER_02
And I m really grateful that we got to listen and connect with each other today.
9
SPEAKER_02
So thank you so much, man.
9
SPEAKER_02
Same, Jay.
9
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
9
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
9
SPEAKER_02
If you loved this episode, you ll enjoy my conversation with Meghan Trainor on breaking generational trauma and how to be confident from the inside out.
9
SPEAKER_01
My therapist told me stand in the mirror naked for five minutes.
9
SPEAKER_01
It was already tough for me to love my body, but after the C-section scar with all the stretch marks, now I m looking at myself like I ve been hacked.
9
SPEAKER_01
But day three when I did it, I was like, you know what?
9
SPEAKER_01
Her thighs are cute.
9
SPEAKER_02
Okay, this is something that I ve been waiting for and you are absolutely going to love it.
9
SPEAKER_02
My wife Rathi s book Joyful is launching on February 27th.
9
SPEAKER_02
I am so excited for her first book ever to be in your hands and be in your home and fill it with joy.
9
SPEAKER_02
So go to joyfulbook.com
9
SPEAKER_02
to pre-order now for an exclusive video and a daily wellness guide made by Radhi herself.
9
SPEAKER_02
Again, that s J-O-Y-F-U-L-L book.com, joyfulbook.com.
9
SPEAKER_02
Check it out, pre-order it right now, get your free video and wellness guide, you re gonna love it.
9
SPEAKER_00
A new season of Bridgerton is here.
9
SPEAKER_00
And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
9
SPEAKER_00
I m your host, Gabby Collins.
9
SPEAKER_00
And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
9
SPEAKER_00
Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
9
SPEAKER_00
Then fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
9
SPEAKER_00
Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday.