1
SPEAKER_00
you, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
I feel like we spend our whole lives trying to figure out what s going to work for me.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then imagine finding that and a few years into it, you feel like it s not for you anymore, maybe.
1
SPEAKER_00
Or you feel like you just, your heart yearns for more.
1
SPEAKER_00
I feel like there s no other way for me to really summarize that sentiment.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I mean, there were just so many
1
SPEAKER_00
aspects to that decision, whether it s financially or the people that rely on me.
1
SPEAKER_00
I decided to pay for my parents  retirement.
1
SPEAKER_00
I work with so many people whose incomes rely on me.
1
SPEAKER_00
Any change that I make to my business structure, even though as a person, I may just look like a person making content, there are so many other people that I should consider, and my audience, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Obviously, there are people that I want to make happy.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I feel like this constant desire to make people proud and I m like, what if this doesn t feel like the right choice for other people, but it was something I had to do for myself and I just keep hoping that
1
SPEAKER_00
As long as I try to optimize for my happiness and health, that will allow me to output the best stuff that I can over my whole lifetime, whatever that will end up being.
1
SPEAKER_01
Right.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
So when you were doing, you know, before you made this decision, this was what, like last year?
1
SPEAKER_00
This was like eight months.
1
SPEAKER_01
Eight months ago, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
So you took a pause, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
You took a break.
1
SPEAKER_01
How long was that pause?
1
SPEAKER_00
That was about a month.
1
SPEAKER_00
So every like two years or so, I m like, I m going to go insane.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I m so lucky to be able to take a month off.
1
SPEAKER_01
Sure, sure.
1
SPEAKER_00
But yeah, it s because the rest of the year, it s like non-stop.
1
SPEAKER_01
Now before then, were you like streaming every day a certain amount of hours or five days a week?
1
SPEAKER_01
Or what did that look like?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so I probably started off like six days a week, at least six hours.
1
SPEAKER_00
Six hours a day.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Streaming your content.
1
SPEAKER_00
That might sound weird to you, I know, being in front of a computer talking for six hours every day, yeah, but to me, I was like, that s not enough.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I even had a manager at some point who was like, no, you need to do like 10 plus hours every day.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, I kid you not, my brain will melt.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so you re playing video games and you re talking for six hours a day.
1
SPEAKER_00
I know that sounds like not much, but you feel like you have to be so on that whole time talking to people.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s a lot of energy.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I do feel like every streamer is a bit different.
1
SPEAKER_00
Some people are like, I m just going to chill and play my game.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I feel like maybe that s more sustainable or easier to do even like 10, 12 hours in a day.
1
SPEAKER_00
But for me...
1
SPEAKER_00
literally not stop talking the entire six hours.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I end up being pretty tired after, but then you want to film some YouTube videos, you want to take photos.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I m someone who, honestly, out of everything, I love the business aspect of being a content creator.
1
SPEAKER_00
I ve helped co-found an organization.
1
SPEAKER_00
I co-founded a management agency and consultation brand.
1
SPEAKER_00
I work with a clothing company.
1
SPEAKER_00
I just love doing all of these little things on the side.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s many streams of income, many projects, many everythings all at once, which is fun, but sometimes it gets a little overwhelming too.
1
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
1
SPEAKER_01
What are the top three revenue streams that most streamers make from?
1
SPEAKER_01
Is it live streaming?
1
SPEAKER_01
Is it sponsorships and ads?
1
SPEAKER_01
Is it selling your own products?
1
SPEAKER_01
What else is there?
1
SPEAKER_00
I would say primarily streaming.
1
SPEAKER_00
And when you stream, you have subscription revenue.
1
SPEAKER_00
If people subscribe to you, that s a fee every month.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then you also have ad revenue and donations as well, if people want to send in money.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I feel like at some point in your career, it s like you don t want to accept too much in donations.
1
SPEAKER_00
So I ve personally capped mine.
1
SPEAKER_01
Why don t you want to accept donations?
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, I ll cap it at like $2 or $5.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think that s my cap because it just started feeling wrong to take money from people.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, when I was like a college student in debt, I was so grateful.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it was so nice.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it made such a huge difference in my life.
1
SPEAKER_00
But once you get to a certain point in, again, like very grateful, very privileged, but like financial stability, you re like, the likelihood is that this person might need the money more than me, like even $20.
1
SPEAKER_00
Send me two instead, not 20.
1
SPEAKER_00
Keep the rest for yourself.
1
SPEAKER_00
So it s like I keep that interaction without, I don t want to cause financial strain on it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Sure, sure, sure.
1
SPEAKER_00
So that sponsorships for sure.
1
SPEAKER_00
And probably like YouTube ad revenue.
1
SPEAKER_01
Right.
1
SPEAKER_01
Those are the main revenue streams, the top revenue streams for you.
1
SPEAKER_01
Gotcha.
1
SPEAKER_01
Now, how did you deal with self-image and self-confidence when you re staring, maybe not looking at yourself the whole time, but you re on a screen and you can see part of yourself for six hours a day, some people 10 hours a day.
1
SPEAKER_01
You ve got probably tens of thousands of comments coming through throughout this time.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m assuming tens of thousands of live viewers at different times, if not more, and money coming in and also positive comments and negative comments.
1
SPEAKER_01
How do you stick true to your family values?
1
SPEAKER_01
while also staring at yourself and having to be a personal brand and put yourself together and be on camera and photos and play a character in a sense sometimes to an audience.
1
SPEAKER_01
How do you manage that?
1
SPEAKER_00
That s a great question because I don t feel like a lot of people even consider that aspect of it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Obviously, it looks very fun.
1
SPEAKER_00
You play games, you make videos for a living, and it is really, really fun.
1
SPEAKER_00
But when you look at it from that angle, especially from that of a female streamer, you do get constant comments on your appearance.
1
SPEAKER_00
and there s simply no way to not process or be impacted by that mentally, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Personally, I try to take as, I guess, a reasonable and realistic of an approach as I can, which is like, if I know that this is a part of my day-to-day,
1
SPEAKER_00
I need to minimize the negative aspects, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
That means one, having moderators who will remove like the really annoying or weird stuff, or the negative comments, even filtering out certain words.
1
SPEAKER_00
is very, very helpful.
1
SPEAKER_00
And secondly, I try to spend so much time offline or honestly undoing the downsides of just being chronically online, frankly.
1
SPEAKER_00
Really?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
And when those kinds of things get too hard, therapy.
1
SPEAKER_00
And frankly,
1
SPEAKER_00
The most difficult times in my career or the times where I m most unsure of myself, I try to ask myself like, if I try to imagine myself like five or 10 years younger watching me, how could I make this person proud?
1
SPEAKER_00
You know?
1
SPEAKER_00
How can I maybe positively influence them in the decisions that I make, the things that I do or say?
1
SPEAKER_00
What is something that could enrich someone s soul?
1
SPEAKER_00
Because I think you can very easily just start focusing entirely on how you look or optimizing for that.
1
SPEAKER_00
But is that like the right message that I want to send to my female viewers or people who might not feel the best about themselves?
1
SPEAKER_00
So I try to be considerate of all those things.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s good.
1
SPEAKER_01
But especially therapy.
1
SPEAKER_01
When did you start going to therapy and what was the biggest lesson that you ve learned in therapy?
1
SPEAKER_00
I actually feel like I started going almost as soon as I moved to LA.
1
SPEAKER_01
Really?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
As soon as I started feeling like, oh, this is just getting to be a lot.
1
SPEAKER_01
What is?
1
SPEAKER_01
What s getting to be a lot?
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, well, at the time I lived with other content creators.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, man.
1
SPEAKER_01
So it s nonstop all day, all day, all night.
1
SPEAKER_01
Streaming, streaming, streaming.
1
SPEAKER_00
It felt like I was in like a reality TV show.
1
SPEAKER_01
You kind of were.
1
SPEAKER_01
An online reality show, live streaming.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, kind of fun, but kind of mentally overwhelming.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, how do I keep my sanity intact?
1
SPEAKER_00
And I just try to be very considerate of how I m being influenced in a way, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
So I started going to therapy then, and it was really nice because it felt, how do I say this?
1
SPEAKER_00
It felt like it was like, yeah, just keeping me sane a little bit, like a way to take care of my brain and calm it down.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think the thing that I learned or the thing that comes off that that comes to mind when you ask me that question is my current therapist now at one point told me like, hey,
1
SPEAKER_00
The rate that you re going at, I don t think there s any way for you to continue this lifestyle at this rate without needing consistent therapy.
1
SPEAKER_01
Really?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
1
SPEAKER_00
This was maybe like a year ago.
2
SPEAKER_00
That was very helpful for me to realize.
2
SPEAKER_00
I was getting so frustrated with some of the issues that I was experiencing that I realized for me to stop winding up in the same place or winding up in the same place, I need to make big changes.
2
SPEAKER_00
You want to see big change?
2
SPEAKER_00
Make big changes, kind of thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
What were the biggest frustrations you were facing?
2
SPEAKER_00
Some of the...
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, just some of the harassment you get online?
2
SPEAKER_00
or not just you in general.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m very cognizant that if you put yourself out there, there s going to be negativity, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
You re opening yourself up to all types of comments.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes, 1,000%.
2
SPEAKER_00
And honestly, I feel like I have pretty thick skin.
2
SPEAKER_00
I grew up with an older brother.
2
SPEAKER_00
We fought all the time.
2
SPEAKER_00
I ve played video games my whole life.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I get it, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
But even all those things considered, being a female in a male-dominated space, there were just certain things that I was dealing with that were getting to be too much and too
2
SPEAKER_00
Cyclical.
2
SPEAKER_00
Really?
2
SPEAKER_00
It felt like every three to four months, it was like some crisis, some big thing that was like really impeding my life.
2
SPEAKER_01
Really?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
What were these, what types of crisis?
2
SPEAKER_01
Is it like stalkers?
2
SPEAKER_01
Is this like...
2
SPEAKER_00
sometimes, sometimes it s like, um, other content creators, like having some sort of like hate campaign against you or like farming you for views.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
I hate to say that.
2
SPEAKER_00
And like, you know, at the end of the day, I m putting myself out there, but it became very,
2
SPEAKER_00
evident that the way that I was being treated in the past was very different than my male counterparts.
2
SPEAKER_00
Really?
2
SPEAKER_00
And that was very frustrating.
2
SPEAKER_00
Luckily, that has improved year over year, I would say, but it was difficult to deal with at certain points in my career.
2
SPEAKER_01
What advice do you have to young individuals watching or listening who
2
SPEAKER_01
struggle with criticism, rejection, the opinions of other people, how have you learned to overcome that, those opinions?
2
SPEAKER_01
To not let it affect your self-value and self-worth.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think for starters, just accepting that statistically, there s going to be a percent of people that don t like you.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s life.
2
SPEAKER_00
Do you like everybody you ve ever met?
2
SPEAKER_00
No, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
So don t worry about it too much, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Some level of criticism, of distaste is to be accepted and is completely normal.
2
SPEAKER_00
Take advice from people that you look up to because some of the things random people online say to me, I m like, I m sorry, you don t have the qualifications to comment on that, frankly, which is kind of funny.
2
SPEAKER_00
And lastly, this one is a bit more specific.
2
SPEAKER_00
Criticisms that are solely tied to something that is outside of your control, whether that s like how you look or your gender, your race, any of these things that are much more personal and frankly unfair.
2
SPEAKER_00
From my experience, it is best to find validation and reassurance from like-minded people.
2
SPEAKER_00
The support I got from other female streamers and women in the space is like the sole thing that kept me pushing through.
2
SPEAKER_00
So that s so, so, so, so helpful.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s great.
2
SPEAKER_01
What are the advantages and disadvantages that women have in the online streaming gaming space versus men, advantages and disadvantages in the same space?
2
SPEAKER_00
I d say advantage is like sometimes, I don t know if minority is the right word to use in this case, but I guess it is.
2
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes being a minority helps you almost like stand out in a way as a content creator when there s something that differentiates you from everyone else, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
If you see a hundred people and they re kind of similar,
2
SPEAKER_00
or like even if they re like the same gender and then there s one girl you re like oh at least like your eye is kind of drawn there like this is different right so maybe that s an advantage but it s also a disadvantage because then people will use that attribute to maybe pick on you or treat you differently um yeah that s the main thing i mean i don t know if you know much about gaming but
2
SPEAKER_00
It s pretty well known that like, there s a hint of misogyny here and there.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t like to talk about it too much.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s like a bit of a tired topic, but it just kind of is what it is.
2
SPEAKER_00
Luckily the, I feel like there is more variety in the gaming community year over year.
2
SPEAKER_00
The pandemic brought a lot of eyeballs into this industry a lot as well.
2
SPEAKER_00
So yeah, it s improved a lot.
2
SPEAKER_01
What is the...
2
SPEAKER_01
the thing you love the most about being able to stream to an audience live?
2
SPEAKER_00
I love the interaction.
2
SPEAKER_00
I love talking to people.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s so fun.
2
SPEAKER_00
And getting like an insight into other people s lives.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I feel like there is no greater sense of fulfillment than having a positive influence on someone else.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s good.
2
SPEAKER_00
Which might sound grandiose for gaming, but you know when someone s like, oh, I m so happy to see you live, or you ve kept me company during a tough time.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s so nice, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
And being someone who, like, I ve been a viewer of the same content creator that, or type of content creator that I then became, I understand that position so well that it just feels really good.
2
SPEAKER_01
Now, how long have you been doing this?
2
SPEAKER_01
Almost 10 years?
2
SPEAKER_00
Eight, nine years.
2
SPEAKER_01
You ve been in the kind of streaming space.
2
SPEAKER_00
Crazy.
2
SPEAKER_01
Do you feel like after almost a decade of being in the space that you fit in or that you belong?
2
SPEAKER_00
I think I would probably say both at this point.
2
SPEAKER_00
but mainly because it feels like I really carved out a space for myself.
2
SPEAKER_00
I took years building my own little chair, and I m like, I m gonna sit here, okay?
2
SPEAKER_00
And you can t do anything about it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And luckily then, I got my little circle of friends, and now I feel like safe, and really like everyone you fit in.
2
SPEAKER_01
You belong in that community, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Maybe you fit into the whole community, but in your community, you belong.
2
SPEAKER_01
I belong, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
What is it about you that makes your community love you the most?
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_00
Ask them.
2
SPEAKER_00
I would want to say that I try to be as like upbeat as I can.
2
SPEAKER_00
Just naturally.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s what I like to do.
2
SPEAKER_00
I feel like I ve been
2
SPEAKER_00
very lucky to have had this career at a kind of pivotal time within streaming.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I feel weird saying this about myself, but it feels very nice when members in my community are like, Oh, you inspire me or you motivate me, or you make me feel like I can stream as a woman, as this, as that, you know, you make me feel like it s okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
That is so, so kind.
2
SPEAKER_01
You see comments come through constantly.
2
SPEAKER_01
Most of your community, I m assuming, is in their teens and early 20s.
2
SPEAKER_01
Is that correct?
2
SPEAKER_01
Most of the community?
2
SPEAKER_00
I would think so, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Why do you think so many people in their teens and early 20s struggle with mental health and motivation today?
2
SPEAKER_00
Honestly, I hate to say it as someone who profits from this industry, but I think social media has a
2
SPEAKER_00
big hand in that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Um, I also think though that there are just a lot of modern day issues that feel very isolating or difficult for people to deal with.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think that off the top of my mind.
2
SPEAKER_01
Do you feel like it s, do you feel like people are more isolated, that they don t have a purpose or they feel like they don t belong in their communities that causes them to suffer mentally?
2
SPEAKER_00
all of the above.
2
SPEAKER_00
And the internet can be a great getaway, like even for me personally, when I was in high school, it felt like I had a bit of a double life.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like Hannah Montana, I would go to high school, I was like part of the student council with all my friends, and I d go home and I would only be online with like my online friends.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I felt like I bonded with so many people over gaming, people that
2
SPEAKER_00
I felt like I couldn t have those types of connections with my friends that I knew in real life.
2
SPEAKER_01
Really?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
So you had deeper connections online than in-life connections?
2
SPEAKER_00
I think so, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
But also it s like, that s kind of when you connect the most with people.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
On your off time, experiencing things together, and gaming with someone is experiencing something together.
2
SPEAKER_00
Bonding.
2
SPEAKER_00
It is.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re like competing, you re going for a challenge, let s go.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes, absolutely.
2
SPEAKER_00
You have like the same hobby.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay, the first game that I started streaming was called League of Legends.
2
SPEAKER_00
And during that time, like before it started blowing up, it was like any time I met someone who also played, it was like,
2
SPEAKER_00
You re a secret club, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
will be like, do you need some money?
4
SPEAKER_00
But it s really, really sweet.
4
SPEAKER_00
And frankly, I feel like the biggest privilege I ve had in life was having caring and attentive parents, regardless of like, oh, were they kind of strict?
4
SPEAKER_00
Did that make me feel?
4
SPEAKER_00
Whatever.
4
SPEAKER_00
They were there for me.
4
SPEAKER_00
They cared.
4
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like they loved me a hundred percent and even when I like ran off to LA to do God knows what They still always told me like if all else fails you have a bed in our home with us like you can always come back here and I feel like that s something that everybody deserves and It like it hurts my heart and soul so much that
4
SPEAKER_00
It just feels so unfair that some people don t have parents that treat them that way.
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m like, can I treat you that way?
4
SPEAKER_00
I ll make an extra bed for you.
4
SPEAKER_01
Right, right.
4
SPEAKER_00
But yeah, it feels like you re genuinely the greatest privilege I ve had in my life.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh, that s cool.
4
SPEAKER_01
What decision have you made that you re the most proud of?
4
SPEAKER_00
Frankly,
4
SPEAKER_00
persevering through very difficult, weird online situations.
4
SPEAKER_00
Really?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, there were a lot of times where like, as the number one Twitch female streamer, I was
4
SPEAKER_00
put in a position where I really didn t want to be, not that position in particular, but just like being talked about in certain ways, either like people being inappropriate towards me or like sexualizing me when I really didn t want to be, or spreading rumors or this and that, especially on like a
4
SPEAKER_00
like a large stage in front of communities and communities and whatever happened, doing my best to react in like the right way, in a way that would make other women in the space feel safe.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I think the messages that I still get to this day of people being grateful for that means the world to me.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
So when you were facing some of these difficulties, you know, the ego wants to defend, it wants to react, it wants to... And sometimes I did, and I have to apologize for that.
4
SPEAKER_01
It wants to, you know, say what it needs to say.
4
SPEAKER_01
It wants to, you know, whatever you want to do, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, it wants justice.
4
SPEAKER_01
It wants fairness.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like, this doesn t feel fair.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s not fair.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s not right.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s not true.
4
SPEAKER_01
Why did they do this?
4
SPEAKER_01
So how did you respond in a, I guess, conscious way that people still talk about today?
4
SPEAKER_01
How was that response?
4
SPEAKER_00
I think when you re in tough situations like that, especially when you feel that ego kicking in, you need to get advice from other people.
4
SPEAKER_00
People that you trust, people that you know will give you an honest answer.
4
SPEAKER_00
And don t get advice from one person, ask like 10 people, you know?
4
SPEAKER_01
So don t just jump on video and say how you feel right away.
4
SPEAKER_00
Been there, done that.
4
SPEAKER_00
Not the best idea, but really formulating like, how do I want to go about this?
4
SPEAKER_00
And as I said before, like,
4
SPEAKER_00
If I was in the audience instead of in my shoes, how would I want to see my favorite content creator or someone that I look up to respond or react?
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, what would I find inspiring?
4
SPEAKER_00
What would I find benefits this ecosystem as a whole of like live streaming of gaming this community?
4
SPEAKER_00
How can I make a good impact when I know people are watching or are waiting for my answer?
4
SPEAKER_00
Right.
4
SPEAKER_01
How many people are on the streaming Twitch world?
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, let me think about it.
4
SPEAKER_01
How many million people are on the platform?
4
SPEAKER_01
I m not even aware.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, I have like nine million followers, so more than that.
4
SPEAKER_01
Right.
4
SPEAKER_01
And how many people, just to give context, because I m assuming a lot of people watch or listen to this, my community isn t on Twitch as much.
4
SPEAKER_01
What is the top people on Twitch, how many live viewers will they have on an average day?
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, Twitch has gone through its ups and downs.
4
SPEAKER_00
The peaks were like 50, 100,000 viewers.
4
SPEAKER_00
Live.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
For some of the top people.
4
SPEAKER_00
For you as well?
4
SPEAKER_00
When everybody was at home during the pandemic, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
I ve had numbers like that, which is insane.
4
SPEAKER_01
100,000 people watching live.
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SPEAKER_00
For hours.
4
SPEAKER_00
You can t even fathom that, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
This football stadium.
4
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
4
SPEAKER_00
But nowadays it s calmed down a little bit and it s more so people who are like really dedicated to watching.
4
SPEAKER_00
So like probably the top live streamers maybe have like 50,000.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m around like 10,000, which is still like a ton.
4
SPEAKER_00
I feel like that was like, I hit one to 5,000.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m like set for life, like that s fine.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then you get into it and you re like, the way that it can snowball is crazy.
4
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
4
SPEAKER_01
And what is the strategy moving forward for you with business, with branding, with managing this community and this audience and kind of reinventing yourself?
4
SPEAKER_01
What s the vision you have moving forward?
4
SPEAKER_00
As I said before, I ve just written down a bunch of mantras that I want to live my life according to.
4
SPEAKER_01
What are those?
4
SPEAKER_00
Some are just like, I mean if I had my phone I d tell you right away, but like for example, instead of just focusing on content that either I know people will like or that is like optimized for the algorithm or whatever.
4
SPEAKER_00
balancing that with an equal amount of content that is for like a specific community of people that I wanted to resonate with.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like every piece of content doesn t need to be a banger.
4
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes you just want to cultivate a community or
4
SPEAKER_00
tell like-minded people how you feel, what you think, make them feel like they re not alone, and sometimes that s not everyone and that s okay, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
It s more so about, again, creating that community of people that you will be proud to be a part of, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
And what about the business that you have going forward?
4
SPEAKER_01
Is it less streaming, and so therefore, potentially less revenue there, and you re trying to generate revenue in other places?
4
SPEAKER_01
What s that strategy for you?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so it was a little bit two-fold making that decision.
4
SPEAKER_01
Because you re not streaming all the time anymore, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
Not anymore, no.
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SPEAKER_00
I ll stream maybe like two, three times a week, as opposed to like almost every day kind of thing.
4
SPEAKER_01
Still six hours or a little less.
4
SPEAKER_00
I ll do like four to eight hours, something like that.
4
SPEAKER_01
But, but half the week.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Which is different.
4
SPEAKER_00
Um, and I m working on other projects, as you know, like when your income is directly tied to your time, it s not very scalable and it can be very tiring if you re trying to optimize how much you make.
4
SPEAKER_00
Right.
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, it s all on you too.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s like the energy of your face, your persona, your brand.
4
SPEAKER_01
You ve got to be on constantly.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
And as I mentioned before, I love the business marketing aspect of everything.
4
SPEAKER_00
So interesting to me.
4
SPEAKER_00
So I m in the works.
4
SPEAKER_00
I have a project that will launch when it launches.
4
SPEAKER_01
Sure.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that s been such a fun, like passion of mine.
4
SPEAKER_00
Um, and I wouldn t have had the time to pursue it if I didn t actively make the decision to, you know, stream less and explore other things.
4
SPEAKER_00
But for a long time, it was really hard, especially as I said, like
4
SPEAKER_00
coming from an immigrant family or like being an immigrant it s like the number one thing is to make it financially and like pay back your parents and that has always been like such such a heavy factor in my decision making that to
4
SPEAKER_00
Rewire that was a little bit difficult and again, I m I m so lucky to even be able to make the decision not to But I m sure I m not the only one out there Like I find there s probably a lot of people who end up working so hard in one direction For example, especially like the corporate ladder and then you wind up somewhere where maybe you re making good pay But you might not be as happy as you thought you were right?
4
SPEAKER_00
So what do you do then?
4
SPEAKER_00
Right?
4
SPEAKER_00
And I feel like, I feel like there were like different seasons of my life.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I intentionally decided to make one season, like the season of like, I would just grind, let me just grind until I m financially stable enough to do whatever I want.
4
SPEAKER_00
So that was,
4
SPEAKER_00
Even having that opportunity is very lucky, I guess.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s very difficult for me to talk about these things because I don t want to come off out of touch or privileged, even though being a content creator, you frankly just are.
4
SPEAKER_00
But speaking frankly, that was just a decision that I decided to make.
4
SPEAKER_00
I was like, I m going to make less money so I can have a more fun life.
4
SPEAKER_00
But before that, I m going to grind my ass off.
4
SPEAKER_00
So yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, my parents don t have to worry, and I don t have to worry.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s amazing.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, you wanted to have more peace, more harmony, more balance in your life.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I think you mentioned being a content creator is a privileged life, and I think
5
SPEAKER_00
For some, you know, I think there s a lot of content creators that don t make any money that don t have either the timing, the talent, the skill, you know, the drive that you ve had where it s really popped off and worked for you.
5
SPEAKER_00
Some people try and it doesn t work for whatever reason.
5
SPEAKER_00
And there s a lot more people that struggle trying to make a living from content.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think it s a challenging thing.
5
SPEAKER_00
So for you to be able to do what you ve done is inspiring and impressive.
5
SPEAKER_00
But it sounds like you figured out, you know, you can t keep doing the same grinding thing nonstop for many more years.
5
SPEAKER_01
And for some people, they can, and if that makes them happy.
5
SPEAKER_00
Right.
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, all the more power to him.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m curious, you ve had, you know, eight, nine years of kind of experience in the streaming world and just reinvented yourself a few different times and grown and, you know, been to therapy and all these different, had some hardships and dealt with some stress.
5
SPEAKER_00
You didn t feel like you belonged or fit in at times.
5
SPEAKER_00
If you could go back to your 16 year old self and give three pieces of advice before you kind of jumped into this world of streaming and online personality,
5
SPEAKER_00
to set her up for success, what would you say to her?
5
SPEAKER_01
I would actually start off by saying like, disarm yourself a little bit.
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, apologizing is not a bad thing.
5
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes things may feel unfair, but not everything is about what s fair or not.
5
SPEAKER_01
Life in general is not fair.
5
SPEAKER_01
Um,
5
SPEAKER_01
So take a moment, like anytime you feel defensive or reactive, it s much better to just take a moment.
5
SPEAKER_01
I also like to think like, I don t dwell on this kind of question too much because I m like, what if I this, what if I that?
5
SPEAKER_01
Would I go back and change this decision?
5
SPEAKER_01
At the end of the day, I m like,
5
SPEAKER_01
As cheesy as it sounds, I really do view every mistake as like a learning lesson.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s also how I cope.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m like, I might ve made that mistake, but I learned from it.
5
SPEAKER_01
What else can I do?
5
SPEAKER_01
So you just let it go.
5
SPEAKER_01
Definitely.
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SPEAKER_01
That would be number one.
5
SPEAKER_01
Number two is like, try very hard to stay true to yourself, but that s also, that s a lesson you learn.
5
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes you stray too far one way and you re like, I don t really feel like me.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then you,
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, you re back a little bit, throughout life probably.
5
SPEAKER_01
And lastly is probably to prioritize your health as much as you can, physical, mental, in whatever ways that you can, because, you know, that s the number one limiting factor of anything you want to accomplish.
5
SPEAKER_01
Right?
5
SPEAKER_00
For those who look up to you, and whether it be young women or men that are like, I want to get into streaming, I want to make this a full-time career, or content creation, what s the one thing you would have people do with an hour a day before they did any of their content?
5
SPEAKER_00
If you could have an hour to do this one thing to set yourself up for a better life, what would that be?
5
SPEAKER_01
Before making a content?
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SPEAKER_00
Before you start, yeah, before your 10 hours a day grinding and just going for five to 10 years, if you had to carve out an hour a day for something else, what would that be?
5
SPEAKER_01
Honestly, before your day, get some sunlight, 10 minutes.
5
SPEAKER_01
Meditate, 10 minutes.
5
SPEAKER_01
And have a well-balanced meal, 10 minutes.
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SPEAKER_01
Honestly, move your body somehow.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s it.
5
SPEAKER_01
Those four things, and your quality of life will improve significantly, and you will be minimizing the downsides of however hard you want to work.
5
SPEAKER_00
Right.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Because I feel like there s a lot of, I mean, I see the younger generation, and I see a lot of them just either on their phone for 10 to 15 hours a day, and it looks like they re either consuming TikTok or Snapchat or Twitch or whatever, or just messaging their friends all day.
5
SPEAKER_00
Or they re on a screen, you know, some type of screen.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I just feel like I see the power of using social media.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s what I ve done to build my business as well, but I also know how powerful it is to disconnect every day.
5
SPEAKER_01
Not just powerful, I think necessary.
5
SPEAKER_01
I wish there was more education surrounding that topic, especially for the younger generation.
5
SPEAKER_01
Parents nowadays who have to figure out how to manage their kids  relationship with these devices.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s all very new territory, but people need to be very, very cognizant of the ways that it can shape your mind.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I mainly speak to this, especially for young girls, because I know how detrimental it can be to their self-perception, their confidence, all of these things.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
What does looking at yourself, looking at other
5
SPEAKER_00
women on social media or streaming with filters and, you know, modification apps do to young women.
5
SPEAKER_01
It makes you feel not right.
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, I feel like we re constantly being told, whether we recognize it or not, when we see something repeatedly and we see something be praised repeatedly, we know, oh, this is what s right.
5
SPEAKER_01
And anything that doesn t look like that is wrong.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so I think it s very important to one, be wary of who you follow.
5
SPEAKER_01
Are you diversifying who you follow?
5
SPEAKER_01
Are you following them because of how they look, because of what they say?
5
SPEAKER_01
What are the reasons for that and are those reasons good?
5
SPEAKER_01
And then two, I just implore people to spend more time in real life, frankly, because online you see a lot of the same.
5
SPEAKER_01
But when you re just walking around real life, you see what real bodies look like, what people look like up close.
5
SPEAKER_01
We all have wrinkles and spots and this and that, and not everybody s flat-stomached, and even the people who post photos like that at some point are not, like after a big meal.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like, yeah, go to the gym, see real people working out what those things actually look like.
5
SPEAKER_01
Otherwise, our perception is just a culmination of what we see.
5
SPEAKER_01
If all that we see is optimized, filtered, modified in some way, it s not realistic.
5
SPEAKER_01
So make sure to spend an equal amount of time in a more realistic environment.
5
SPEAKER_00
Has that affected you at all, seeing other women on social media with filters and everything else?
5
SPEAKER_01
For sure.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I mean, partially just as a viewer or as an audience or a woman in her 20s, you know, it s like, oh, this kind of style is praised a lot.
5
SPEAKER_01
Should I do this?
5
SPEAKER_01
Should I do that?
5
SPEAKER_01
And then secondly, as a content creator, like, oh, people really like this kind of look.
5
SPEAKER_01
would it be optimizing my business to look this way?
5
SPEAKER_01
You get what I mean?
5
SPEAKER_01
There s so many levels to it and I think going down that rabbit hole too much 1.
5
SPEAKER_01
Hurts your brain and 2.
5
SPEAKER_01
Honestly detracts from the fun
5
SPEAKER_01
and more like fulfilling parts of content creation, which is like making someone happy.
5
SPEAKER_01
Right.
5
SPEAKER_01
Or putting something out that means a lot to me, as opposed to focusing too much on appearances can be hard sometimes.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, sure.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
So I ve had like any time I feel my brain getting caught up in that a little bit too much, I m like, okay, let s reel it back.
5
SPEAKER_01
Let s reevaluate how much time I m spending online, what I m thinking about, the kind of content that I consume.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s really important too.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, like you said, your whole TikTok is motivational stuff.
5
SPEAKER_00
It is.
5
SPEAKER_00
Motivational.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so that s what your brain is going to be all about, and the things that you talk about is going to be all about that, too.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, exactly.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m curious about your perspective on money.
5
SPEAKER_00
You started making really good money in your late teens, early 20s.
5
SPEAKER_00
More than 99.9% of people in their late teens and 20s in the world, probably.
5
SPEAKER_00
How did that affect you, making more money than your peers, most of your peers, at a young age?
5
SPEAKER_00
And what is the dark side of making money for someone who s really young?
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, I don t want to act like it s
5
SPEAKER_01
such a detrimental thing, you know?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Because I mean, I started streaming when I was in high school, didn t make much in college was still in debt for like two years and then it started taking off.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then maybe two, three years after that, I started making significantly more, like more than what a doctor makes.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then for like two, three years, it was much, much more that I could have ever imagined.
5
SPEAKER_01
So.
5
SPEAKER_01
Initially it was it was really just like step by step like I m
6
SPEAKER_00
I m just looking to have a part-time job, basically.
6
SPEAKER_00
I can make a little bit of money here while studying engineering.
6
SPEAKER_00
Cool.
6
SPEAKER_00
Then I was like, wait, if I focus on this for a couple months, I can pay off my student loans.
6
SPEAKER_00
Cool.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then, frankly, for me, my dream in life was always to make six figures.
6
SPEAKER_00
Because that s what a doctor makes.
6
SPEAKER_00
Sure, sure.
6
SPEAKER_00
Let s go.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I really felt like, at that point, I was like, OK, I m good.
6
SPEAKER_00
But it felt like the expectation in life is to optimize that.
6
SPEAKER_00
So when you see the opportunity, right, it s like, go for it, go for it.
6
SPEAKER_00
But at some point, it s like, you don t really realize what you re sacrificing.
6
SPEAKER_00
or if you should keep going for it.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I think there were a lot of times where I just put like my health and my mental on the back burner because I was so fixated on like I need financial stability.
6
SPEAKER_00
And just like with anything else it can get like
6
SPEAKER_00
It just becomes a habit, almost like addicting.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s like, okay, need to focus on this.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I just, I lost sight of, again, like, what do I want?
6
SPEAKER_00
What actually makes me happy?
6
SPEAKER_00
And it s like, there was such a scarcity sentiment.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, even with content creators, it s like, you don t know where your career is going to be in a year or two.
6
SPEAKER_01
Right.
6
SPEAKER_01
What if the algorithm changes?
6
SPEAKER_01
What if they cancel my account?
6
SPEAKER_01
What if, who knows, right?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m not going to say that there were crazy downsides, aside from things that I had to figure out myself, like how to really manage my life and my business structure.
6
SPEAKER_00
But I do feel like sometimes to my peers, maybe they viewed me differently, knowing that.
6
SPEAKER_01
Really?
6
SPEAKER_01
How so?
6
SPEAKER_00
I think depending on the person, it might be something that they judge you off of.
6
SPEAKER_01
How much money you re making?
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
Really?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
I think for some people it can be inspirational, but for some people it s like, oh, you re over there and I m here kind of thing.
6
SPEAKER_00
But it s like, oh, I don t come from money.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m not like that, man.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, which I understand, right?
6
SPEAKER_00
Everybody makes assumptions based off of what they might know about someone.
6
SPEAKER_00
But I also think the lifestyle that I was leading when I wanted to like save up as much as I could, take care of my parents, do this, do that, that lifestyle was also isolating.
6
SPEAKER_01
Really?
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah, for sure.
6
SPEAKER_01
How so?
6
SPEAKER_00
It s just work, work, work all the time.
6
SPEAKER_00
And when you re optimizing for work or for financials, everything else is on the back burner.
6
SPEAKER_00
And it takes so much effort to like, oh wait, I need to keep up with friends.
6
SPEAKER_00
I need to create a friend circle.
6
SPEAKER_00
I need to do this.
6
SPEAKER_00
I need to do that.
6
SPEAKER_00
Even taking care of like your health.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s so easy to set everything else aside when you re focused on career goals.
6
SPEAKER_01
Now, it sounds like you weren t raised with a ton of money, but you had money, you had a home, you had opportunities, but you weren t having this rich lifestyle growing up as a kid, right?
6
SPEAKER_00
Not at all.
6
SPEAKER_00
I feel like, you want to know how I learned really the value of a dollar?
6
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
6
SPEAKER_00
Which in hindsight, I m so glad that I did.
6
SPEAKER_00
I ve had numerous jobs before streaming.
6
SPEAKER_00
My very first one was I was a newspaper delivery girl.
6
SPEAKER_00
I ve always had like a very mathematical optimization kind of mindset and I would make maybe like a hundred dollars every two weeks or something and I would do it like two three times a week and I had this kind of a route
6
SPEAKER_00
And I did meet everything up to be like, okay, every time I drop off a newspaper, that s five cents.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
So I m like, five cents, five cents, five cents.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
So that was, I mean, that was, and I was so excited, you know, cause I didn t get like, um, what do you call it when your parents give you money?
6
SPEAKER_01
Like entitled or an allowance.
6
SPEAKER_00
An allowance.
6
SPEAKER_00
I didn t have like an allowance or anything like that.
6
SPEAKER_00
So for me to have money to spend on my own, that was the only way, like go get a job.
6
SPEAKER_00
So I was like 13 years old, five steps, five steps.
6
SPEAKER_00
But it was so exciting to be able to do something on my own, to exchange my time and labor for any amount of money, right?
6
SPEAKER_00
And then you start thinking, okay, how can I optimize this?
6
SPEAKER_00
Let me ride a bike.
6
SPEAKER_00
A little bit faster.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then, you know, a couple of years later, you re able to work elsewhere.
6
SPEAKER_01
You also divvy that up, so... What... When... I mean, how did you learn how to manage money when it started to come in in abundance, really, and more and more?
6
SPEAKER_01
Because you grew up, you know, five cents at a time with newspapers to six and seven figures and beyond.
6
SPEAKER_01
How did you handle it?
6
SPEAKER_01
Like, how did you manage it, handle it, and not be scarce with it still, but think abundantly?
6
SPEAKER_01
Or was there a period of still scarcity?
6
SPEAKER_01
Because you re like, I don t know if this is going to keep coming in.
6
SPEAKER_00
I think I was very lucky that everything came one step at a time.
6
SPEAKER_00
From that one newspaper job, to getting a part-time job, to getting a full-time job, to streaming, to I feel like everything was incremental throughout my whole life.
6
SPEAKER_00
So I ve been able to have a bit of an adjustment period.
6
SPEAKER_00
But when I started making pretty good money,
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I m very lucky.
6
SPEAKER_00
My dad raised me well.
6
SPEAKER_00
He got me a bank account at 13.
6
SPEAKER_00
Even if there s not much in it, it s like, this is your bank account.
6
SPEAKER_00
This is how much you have.
6
SPEAKER_00
You should have a savings account.
6
SPEAKER_00
You should have a checking.
6
SPEAKER_00
And rule of thumb, try to save at least this much percentage of your money.
6
SPEAKER_00
So I was always very considerate of these things, no matter how much I made.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s like, I need to be saving at least, let s say, half of my income.
6
SPEAKER_00
and your spending money should only be like this portion.
6
SPEAKER_00
And having that mindset already going into it allowed me to not spiral too much one way in terms of scarcity or spiral too much one way in terms of, let me just spend, spend, spend, spend, spend, right?
6
SPEAKER_00
And I also, I try to be very experimental
6
SPEAKER_00
Again, I feel like I ve learned so much in school, engineering, but experimental in the sense that I would experiment on spending on different things.
6
SPEAKER_00
If I spend a lot more on a video, what does that return look like?
6
SPEAKER_00
If I invest in myself in terms of my health, if I get a trainer, if I invest more in nutrition, therapy, what are the things where I get the most return and that are actually very helpful?
6
SPEAKER_00
And some things don t make that large of a difference.
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SPEAKER_00
Like frankly, as much as I love clothes and fashion, it s like some shirts, if it s good quality, it could be $50.
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If it s $500, is it gonna make that much of a difference?
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No.
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But honestly, leveling up with like therapy, that was huge.
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Nutrition, health, therapy.
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Yeah, my therapist.
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is like, yeah, he s honestly partially a life coach.
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Very, very worthwhile.
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Any sort of health investment I ve made, most investments in myself, I feel, paid off a lot, so I started prioritizing that, investments in that in my business, and I feel like looking at it very holistically is what helped me the most.
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That s beautiful, I love that.
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Investing in yourself is never a bad investment.
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One thousand percent.
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And honestly, just try stuff.
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Experiment.
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Experiment almost like very considerably and safely.
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Like, I m going to try this intentionally and I will jot down how it goes.
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Should I keep doing it?
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Yes.
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No.
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Yeah, right.
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I ve got a few final questions for you.
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This has been fascinating, Iman.
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I appreciate you.
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I hope so.
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By the way, feel free to ask me anything about the streaming space.
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I love talking to people who have no idea what it s about.
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So if you have any weird questions... I ll see what I can come up with.
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I m curious.
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I wanted to ask you first about how to navigate relationships while being a streamer, while being a big personality, live streaming all day.
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You ve got a massive community watching you constantly, subscribed to you everywhere.
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How do you build relationships with friends and intimate relationships over the last 10 years so that you can create harmony in relationships and not stress?
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I mean, it s for sure a learning process.
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And frankly, just like anything else that s worthwhile, good friendships and relationships require effort, like regular communication, time with each other.
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And I feel like
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During perhaps the most like successful parts of my life.
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I Mean people say it a lot, but it can also be the loneliest but now when I feel successful because I spend so much time building out these relationships I can try to Like maximize both at once, but you really really need to be intentional with those things Otherwise, it s it s hard to have those deep deep relationships
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And how do you manage an intimate relationship with, you know, working nonstop and having this big audience or, I don t know, people being jealous or not?
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Like, how do you manage that?
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I think compartmentalizing time is helpful, you know?
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You re like, if I wanna manage these relationships that mean a lot to me, I need to create time and space for them.
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Especially with any friends that I have that aren t in the public eye, it s about having that conversation of like, are you comfortable being in these things or not?
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Seeing- Like in the live streams you mean?
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Yeah, or anything, in vlogs, in photos.
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I think sometimes people can be a little bit,
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like worried, obviously, or like unsure, because it s such a new space.
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And it s very easy living in LA, you ll always meet people who are a little bit too excited to be in front of the camera.
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And you can tell maybe that s their priority.
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Yeah, so I think communications helped me.
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I mean, it s just the key to making sure that you re on the same page with anyone.
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And ultimately creating very specific times when I m on, I m Pokimane, I m working, I m doing whatever, and very specific times when I m off.
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And if I get along really well with someone when I m just being me, there s no cameras, no nothing, no nothing to benefit from.
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And we develop a beautiful friendship relationship based off of that.
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That s how I know I can carry that into my public life, if they re comfortable with it.
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Sure, sure.
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Do you feel pretty safe in LA?
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You mentioned it before, the streaming world is a different type of, I wouldn t say crazy, but fanatics, right?
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If people are watching you six, ten hours a day, they re probably really into you in certain ways and feel like they get to know you and you re their best friend and all these things.
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It gets parasocial sometimes.
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Parasocial?
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Yeah, that s the term we use quite a bit.
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What does that mean?
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It just means when people... It s a one-sided relationship, essentially.
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If someone is watching you for eight hours a day, it s easy for them to feel close to you, but you don t know them at all.
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So they might come up to you like, oh my God, hey, act like your best friends.
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You re like, you re a stranger to me.
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So it s such an interesting... Does that happen a lot for you?
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It s different in LA because celebrities everywhere and people are more like chill about it.
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Luckily, I feel like general understanding and knowledge or education around these parasocial relationships has gotten a lot better.
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So even from the viewer s perspective, they re like, oh, we need to be considerate of these things.
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We need to approach people respectfully.
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So nowadays, to me, people are really, really nice.
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That s good.
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Yeah, I have had some security concerns.
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People always want to find out where you live, what you re doing, who you re with, these kinds of things.
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But frankly, the less that I stream, again, a very connected, long format type of content, the less of these issues I have.
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And I ve tried very, very hard.
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I m eight years into this.
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I ve set those boundaries publicly.
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I ve figured out, like,
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What are the things and topics that I should avoid so that people don t get too curious?
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What are things that you keep to yourself?
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I don t even like, I can t post photos like outside of my window.
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To show anything.
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It s just a wall.
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Sometimes I ll move in somewhere and I ll like paint the place differently.
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I ll get things removed, things changed to make sure it doesn t match anything online.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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I mean, it s been quite the learning experience.
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Just to avoid any sort of security concerns.
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Wow.
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What is the psychology of being really great on Twitch and live streaming?
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Like, what is the psychology to make someone a great streamer to build a bigger audience?
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I think... I mean, I hate to say it, but we really are all people pleasers.
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To some degree we are.
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We just want like that positive viewer reaction and feedback loop, especially with the chat.
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I think people who learn quickly, adapt, are great because it s interesting.
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You can look at your chat as like constant feedback.
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And if you take that in properly, you optimize how you are as a streamer.
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how you talk, what you say, what you do, what do people react positively to.
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So I would say that, and people who just have a big personality and like to talk.
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I mean, you have to talk the whole time, basically.
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Do those things, yeah.
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Do those things and you have an opportunity, a chance.
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That s amazing.
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A couple of final questions for you.
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This is a question I ask everyone towards the end.
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It s called the three truths question.
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So imagine a hypothetical scenario.
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I m going to put this in your context.
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Twitch and streaming is still massive 100 years away, but it s your last day on earth.
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You have done and created everything you want to create in your life.
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You ve had the life of your dreams.
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You ve accomplished everything.
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I sure hope so.
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Relationships, family, fun, all these different things you ve had.
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But for whatever reason, all the content you ve ever created, no one has access to anymore.
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It has to go to the next place, wherever you go after we die.
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But you get one final live stream.
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And this piece of content will stay in this world forever.
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And you only get to share three lessons that you ve learned from your life.
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If you could imagine this future scenario, what would be those three lessons or what I like to call three truths that you would share if you were streaming live your final time and there was no other content to watch of you?
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The first thing I would say is that... I feel like compassion is the key to humanity.
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So cultivate that.
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Treasure it.
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Utilize it as much as you can.
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Put yourself in other people s shoes.
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Talk to other people all the time.
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No one is below or above anyone else.
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We all lead such cool, unique individual lives, right?
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That s such a beautiful thing.
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And something that I find a little bit difficult about the internet is that sometimes it removes that humanity.
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Like, oh, you re just a person.
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You re one sentence.
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You re one comment.
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You re one 15 second clip.
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But everyone you encounter online or in person have like a whole backstory to them.
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And that is what really informs their behaviors, good or bad or whatever, right?
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I think that s just something that s good to keep in mind.
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Um, two, I d probably say something about gratitude.
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Another thing that I feel requires a lot of cultivating because
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We live in a really, really cool day and age where we have access to so much.
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But sometimes I feel like as humans, we weren t meant to.
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It s like these neurons start like firing a little bit too much.
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Your brain becomes a little bit fried and it s easy to lose sight of things.
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And gratitude above all else is what s going to keep you grounded.
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And maintaining some type of contentment, no matter what life you lead.
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And lastly, I just hope everybody s happy and healthy and has a good life and like take care of yourself.
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It would be so hard.
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You re like, I m going to disappear.
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This is the last thing I can say.
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Yeah.
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Honestly, at the end of my stream, I like to just wish everyone well, like drink some water, go for a walk, do something good for yourself today.
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Take care.
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I ll see you in the next one.
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Yeah.
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Really, um, I mean you can, you can go on and on about like deep lessons and this and that.
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But take care of yourself and tend to the garden you can touch.
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The people around you that you see, treat them well.
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You don t have to worry about every problem in the world.
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Just help those that you can help.
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Take care of each other.
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Take care of yourself.
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Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
You sound like a true life coach.
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I like it.
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You ve got a lot of wisdom for your youth.
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All the mantras I have in my journals.
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Exactly.
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I ve got another final question for you.
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And I want to see where we should follow you and support you, how we can support you in a second.
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But I want to acknowledge you for a moment because I think it s really hard when you re in the public eye as a young age
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and have a lot of audience and have a lot of pressure, a lot of great stuff happening, but also some challenges to face, money, all these
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things that you just feel like you re in a very solid place right now.
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And I acknowledge you for acknowledging that you might have different breakdowns in your past and saying what can I do to pause and get some support and go to therapy, get coaching, get advice.
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I really acknowledge you for that because I think it s hard
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For anyone to want to go to therapy, I ve been doing it for years.
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I love it.
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It brings me a lot of peace.
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Especially the youth.
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I think it s hard to acknowledge when, hey, I m not doing so well.
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I ve got some breakdown.
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Let me get some support here.
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So I really acknowledge you for doing that and talking about it.
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And I also acknowledge you for reinventing yourself to do what fills you up.
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not just what makes me the most money or what other people want me to do, but what also fills you up.
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So I really am inspired that that s where you re at in this stage of your life, and I acknowledge you for that.
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Thank you so much.
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You are an amazing listener and conversationalist.
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SPEAKER_00
I feel like you really just summarized the last year of my life.
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That s good.
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Thank you so much.
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Before I ask the final question, how can we follow you, support you?
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Where are you going to be hanging out the most online?
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Um, I ve been having a lot of fun posting random TikToks.
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On TikTok, I m P-O-K-I Poki.
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That s it.
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But feel free to look me up anywhere.
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P-O-K-I-M-A-N-E.
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On Instagram, I like to post day to day.
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Twitch, if you want to check out some live streams, I read.
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I mean, this is probably my, like, greatest and oddest life skill.
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When I stream, it doesn t matter how many messages are in chat.
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I genuinely can read all of them.
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Wow.
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You can game and read, you can play and... Yes, a little bit, but even if it s going super super fast, I just... You see it all.
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Yeah.
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I mean, you just learn doing something for 10 years.
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That s probably the oddest skill that a live streamer has.
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It s like you can skim books super quickly, but chat messages instead.
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Wow.
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So that s my most fun way to be like, wow, I can essentially meet or interact with a human being just like if they tune into my live stream.
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That s amazing.
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Yeah.
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And answer anything.
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And then YouTube more so for like bigger moments.
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Uh-huh.
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So whatever you re interested in, go explore.
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We ll follow you everywhere.
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Pokey.
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SPEAKER_00
Appreciate that a lot.
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SPEAKER_00
Thank you so much.
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Pokey everywhere.
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Make sure you guys follow.
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Final question for you.
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What is your definition of greatness?
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My definition of greatness is someone who is secure in what they find fulfilling and what brings them joy and they pursue that with all their might.
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I hope today s episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness.
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Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today s show with all the important links.
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And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel on apple podcast.
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SPEAKER_01
If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend, leave us a review over on Apple podcast, and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis Howes.
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I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better.
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And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness Newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com slash newsletter.
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And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.
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And now it s time to go out there and do something great.