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Coming up next on Passion Struck.
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Think of soap operas and the emotional roller coaster that they take you through.
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That s example of really good storytelling.
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And what you got to do is think about the moments in your story, the scary ones, the happy ones, the good ones, the bad ones, exciting ones, and how to integrate them and take people throughout the journey.
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And make sure you share the details because the devil s in the details of storytelling.
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Welcome to Passion Struck.
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Hi, I m your host, Jon R. Miles, and on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance of the world s most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice for you and those around you.
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Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself.
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If you re new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays.
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We have long-form interviews the rest of the week with guests ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries, and athletes.
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Now, let s go out there and become Passion Struck.
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Hello, everyone.
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Welcome back to Episode 446 of Passion Struck, consistently ranked as the number one alternative health podcast.
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A heartfelt thank you to each and every one of you who return to the show every single week, eager to listen, to learn, and to discover new ways to live better, to be better, and to make a meaningful impact in the world.
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If you re new to the show, thank you so much for being here.
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Or you simply want to introduce this to a friend or family member, and we so appreciate it when you do that.
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We have episode starter packs, which are collections of our fans  favorite episodes that we organize into convenient topics that give any new listener a great way to get acclimated to everything we do here on the show.
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Either go to Spotify or Passionstruck.com slash starter packs to get started.
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Are you curious to find out where you stand on the path to becoming Passionstruck?
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Dive into our engaging Passionstruck quiz.
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Crafted to reflect the core principles shared in my latest book, this quiz offers you a dynamic way to gauge your progress on the Passionstruck continuum.
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Just head over to passionstruck.com to embark on this insightful journey.
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And with just 20 questions and roughly 10 minutes of your time, don t miss this chance to gain valuable insights into your passionstruck journey.
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Take the quiz today.
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In case you missed it, earlier this week, I interviewed psychologist, Emma Sapella.
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We discuss her roadmap to becoming psychologically sovereign, empowering you to break free from self-destructive beliefs and live life to the fullest, as well as her role as the science director of Stanford University s Center for Compassion and Altruism Research and Education, where she spearheads research on fostering compassion and altruism throughout society.
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And if you liked that previous episode or today s, we would so appreciate you giving it a five-star rating and review.
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They go such a long way in strengthening the PassionStruck community
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where we can help more people to create lives of significance.
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And I know we and our guests love to hear your feedback.
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Today, we are doing a different type of episode, and we are diving deep into the realm of digital marketing, entrepreneurship, and personal branding with none other than Neil Patel.
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a New York Times bestselling author recognized by Forbes as one of the top 10 marketers and hailed by the Wall Street Journal as a top influencer on the web.
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Neil s journey from a teenage entrepreneur to being honored by President Obama as a top 100 entrepreneur under the age of 30 and his recognition by the United Nations showcases not just his brilliance in digital marketing, but also his profound impact on global business practices.
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In today s episode, Neil shares invaluable insights into the power
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of personal branding, the essence of understanding your audience, and the magic of storytelling in building a brand that resonates and endures.
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We ll explore Neil s unique perspective on leveraging failures as stepping stones for success, his methodical approach to creating massive personal brand influence, and how he views the future of content creation and digital marketing.
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I learned so much in this episode.
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Whether you re an inspiring entrepreneur, a digital marketing enthusiast, or someone passionate about creating a life of intention and purpose, Neil s journey and expert advice offer a roadmap to success.
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So join us as we uncover the strategies that have propelled Neil to the forefront of industry and how you can apply these lessons to skyrocket your own personal and professional growth.
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Thank you for choosing PassionStruck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life.
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Now, let that journey begin.
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I am absolutely thrilled today to have Neil Patel on PassionStruck.
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Welcome Neil.
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Thanks for having me.
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Well, I am so excited to have you here.
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And as I told you before we started, I feel like I ve been following you now for over a decade.
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And I wanted to start out with your earlier journey into entrepreneurship, which started unusually early for you with various business ventures during your teenage years.
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Can you share how some of those experiences helped shape your perspective on business and innovation?
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Sure.
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So I grew up in middle-class America.
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My mom was a teacher.
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My dad was a loan processor, people wanting mortgages for their house.
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He worked for the banks.
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And I wanted to live better than the lower middle-class lifestyle, or maybe we were just playing middle-class lifestyle.
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I wanted something better than that.
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So I was too young to actually get a job, Microsoft or Oracle, because they re not hiring high school students.
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Maybe they are today, but I doubt it.
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And back then, they definitely weren t.
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So what I wanted to do was make money.
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And the only way to make money was at that time, start your own business.
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So that s how I really got into entrepreneurship.
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That s how I started my journey.
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And when I was searching for jobs online, like Microsoft, Oracle, and I quickly realized they weren t hiring people at my age, and they weren t hiring without college degrees back then, I realized, well, I can t find a job.
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Let me just create a job board to help other people start a job.
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Bad idea, but that s what I did.
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And that was my first dip into entrepreneurship.
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Well, I love it.
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I started working myself when I was younger.
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I wish I would have explored more entrepreneurship in my teens as well.
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But I think any type of work sets a good baseline for trying to figure it out and understanding yourself and understanding where you want to take your career.
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It was also good for me because there were some failures that I had in an early age as well.
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That s where I wanted to go next.
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I think sometimes we all have defining events in our life, whether those are great defining events or pivotal failures.
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Can you describe a defining event for you that kind of set your stage for your future success?
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There wasn t one defining stage.
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And I tell most people this.
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People think they have a lot in stages.
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In most cases, they have many things that got them to the path of where they re at today.
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It wasn t necessarily one thing and one aha moment or light bulb that just turned on.
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And what I tell people is you re going to make a lot of mistakes.
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And I made tons.
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I tried to create a cloud computing company before it was hot and it failed miserably.
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Right time, wrong people, poor execution.
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tried to create a web analytics company before Google Analytics came out for free.
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Again, did a lot of things right time or wrong time.
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And the thing that I learned from my mistakes was I m going to make mistakes.
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Most entrepreneurs, including Elon Musk and Bill Gates, all make mistakes.
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What separates the winners from the losers is the winners continually learn from their mistakes and they avoid making the same one over and over again.
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Because if you don t make the same mistakes over and over again, eventually you ll be down a path doing the right stuff and you ll accomplish a lot of your goals.
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So I appreciate everything that you re saying.
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And I love how you say that there s not one defining thing, but it was a series because for everyone, it really differs.
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And for me, I ve had a number of defining events that have influenced me, not just one.
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So I truly appreciate that.
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So I want to really talk about personal branding today, kind of marketing yourself and going through some different elements of that.
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But I m going to start out with this.
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I was reading your blog and you wrote an interesting blog titled, I wish I never built a personal brand.
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Can you kind of talk about that and explain why?
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Personal branding is great.
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We ve done analysis on our revenue at our ad agency, NP Digital.
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And the first year of business, we did around 5 million in revenue.
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Almost all of it came from my personal brand.
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The second year, I believe it was around 18 million in revenue, and around 10 million came from my personal brand.
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And then the year after, I don t have the numbers off the top of my head, but I know it was in the 30s at least.
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and still only 10 million came from my personal brand.
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And as the company kept growing and doubling in size and kept growing year after year, we still never drove more than 10 million in revenue from my personal brand.
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Still to this day, maybe around 10 million comes from my personal brand, but that s less than 10% of our revenue, right?
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So it s just like, it just goes to show personal branding is great,
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but you re only going to make so much money from your personal brand.
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Jordans have done really well for Nike.
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Michael Jordan made good money.
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LeBron James has.
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So has Kobe Bryant from selling shoes.
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But the person who really made the
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most money is Nike.
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Kylie Cosmetics did really well selling beauty products because leveraging the Kylie Jenner name, but who s done better in beauty is Estee Lauder, L Oreal, and all these big corporate brands.
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Personal branding is fine.
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I do think a corporate brand is better.
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I m not saying you should ignore personal brand.
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Personal brand helps you get things started, but you really need to build a corporate brand to do well in the long run.
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You just can t rely on a personal brand.
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Yeah, it s an interesting discussion because even for myself, I have my personal brand, but I have a corporate brand, which is Passionstruck.
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And even though I equate myself to Passionstruck, it s still a team environment.
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And you re right.
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I make the majority of my money through Passionstruck versus my personal brand.
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So if you re someone who s kind of starting out on this journey,
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I have been told oftentimes by people that initially that I should have gotten rid of passion struck or gotten rid of my personal website and not kept both.
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But I think they both serve different purposes.
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What are your thoughts on that?
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I think they serve different purposes.
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I m a fan of having to, I still think majority of time needs to be spent on the corporate side, but there s nothing wrong with having to nothing wrong with having a personal social profile on a corporate one, right?
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It can t hurt.
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It just helps.
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Okay.
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And I think a lot of individuals struggle to market themselves and it comes down to whether they think they re marketable.
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Maybe it s they lack creativity or some other excuse they might have.
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What are people doing to shoot themselves in the collective foot when it comes to building successful personal brands and presence and the SEO around them when they re not marketing themselves?
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There s a few things people do wrong.
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Number one, they produce crap content.
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So people want you to produce good content and consistently and a lot of it.
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And this content needs to be about new stuff people haven t heard about.
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They don t want regurgitated old information.
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And the second thing is they re not persistent.
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So you re not going to build over a personal brand in a month or six months or a year.
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It takes a solid three plus years for it to kick in.
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It doesn t mean that your personal brand will peak out in three years.
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It can grow much more after three years.
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It doesn t mean that you re going to get no results in the first three years.
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You can slowly see a trajectory.
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You have to be persistent enough and be willing to push forward for at least three years to see some meaningful results.
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And if you don t post content every single day on all those social platforms, you re not consistent, you re not creating amazing content.
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And if you make some of those mistakes, even if you do it for three years, it s not going to work out, right?
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So knowledge as a content has to be amazing and great and you have to be posting on a regular basis.
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You need to be doing it for a minimum of three years.
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Yeah.
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Speaking of content, I ve seen some of your LinkedIn posts.
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There was one that had a great interview of you where you put emphasis on video content and the need to distribute video content four times daily across multiple platforms, which if you don t have a podcast or something like that,
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What could be difficult?
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Why does this four times daily matter so much?
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And what advice do you give to people on how they even get ahold of this content or create it?
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You can use ChatGPT for ideas.
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You can read articles on the web.
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You can browse social.
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The formula we typically use is post on X three, four times a day, see what hits, use the winners, create videos.
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You can just bust out your phone and record yourself.
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You don t need fancy editing and put those short form videos on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn, and you re off into the races and then create at least one blog article a week based on the content that performed the best.
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Okay.
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So what I heard there is you go to Twitter, try out three to four pieces of content, seeing if any of them resonate from there.
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You then take the piece that s resonating the most.
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Start doing some short videos around different aspects of that content, which you could put into chat GPT to get ideas on what to talk about, and then utilize this to create a blog post.
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And I have seen different bloggers use different approaches.
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For instance, my friend Seth Godin blogs almost every single day and has been doing so for a long time.
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What do you think is the best frequency for your blog?
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Ideally, two to three times a week.
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If you can t do that, no less than once a week.
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Okay.
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And then how do you suggest utilizing other platforms like medium as compared to your blog?
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Do you post similar content or do you recommend not doing it at all?
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You don t need a medium.
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You just need the content on your own website.
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Okay.
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And I saw your interview with our mutual friend, Rory Vaden, and you guys talked a lot about creating a personal brand.
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And I really love brand builders formula.
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One of the things that they always start with is discovering your uniqueness.
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So.
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I think finding your uniqueness and then actually utilizing it as that core pitch point are two different things.
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How would you suggest to someone that they go about one, finding their uniqueness, and then once they do, what are some of your suggestions on then how do they properly articulate that?
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Because that s really the lens for which they should showcase their expertise, as I understand some of your past talks.
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I wouldn t worry too much about how you find your uniqueness or showcase it.
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I would look at it from a different approach.
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Post a ton of content and see what sticks and then you ll figure out what people like that you re posting and what resonates with them.
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Then you know what to double down on because that s your uniqueness.
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That s your angle.
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That s how you want to convey yourself.
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But instead of worrying about it at the beginning, what you should just do is test a ton of different content, ton of different content types and see what sticks because that s what s going to give you ideas.
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Okay.
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And we re really on the show about personal development.
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How do you see digital marketing and personal development intersecting?
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Yeah, so personal development is just about improving yourself, always trying to be better each and every single day, and if you can do that, great.
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I know it s tough, but digital marketing is really important to get yourself out there.
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Improving isn t just about learning something new.
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It can also be about getting more notoriety and fame out there, whether you like it or not, because that can do wonders for your career.
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Whether you want to be an entrepreneur, whether you want to work nine to five, having a brand doesn t hurt.
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And the way you get that brand is you re going to have to use a lot of digital marketing.
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Yeah.
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Maybe we could talk through some of the different ways you can do that.
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So what is your thought now on podcasts like we re doing right now?
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Do you think.
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the whole area is saturated right now and people should shy away from it?
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Or do you think that this is something that is still a great medium for people to explore?
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So check this out, I put this on X the other day, and it s called You re Creating the Wrong Type of Content.
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The average person spends 556 minutes a day consuming content, and I got that number from a breakdown of a few different sources.
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So TV, 294 minutes according to marketing charts.
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Seems high, but that s what they re saying.
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Videos, 154 minutes a day that came from SocialPilot.
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Texts, 48 minutes a day, Economist.
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Podcasts, 60 minutes a day that came from Backlinko.
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Now, going after the TV vertical, even though it has the highest consumption, it s competitive, it s hard.
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A few people control, really, the channels.
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When you think about videos, according to Micro Focus, YouTube alone gets 4 million hours of videos uploaded each day, with the average web video being 76 seconds.
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According to Binder, that means roughly
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189,473,682 videos are being uploaded each day, and that s just YouTube, so it s really competitive.
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As for texts, 7.5 million blog posts a day, and now with AI, you re going to see those numbers going even higher.
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On the flip side with podcasts, there are roughly 5 million of them, but only 720 of them have more than 10 or so episodes.
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The average podcast has roughly 50 episodes, according to Yagura.
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And according to podcast page, there are roughly 82,191 new podcast episodes that are released each day.
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If you look at our podcast, Marketing School, it generates roughly a million listens a month.
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And we don t spend much at all.
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Now we started doing this stuff where my co-host was like, oh, let s get someone to help record and make it all fancy and set it up.
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I was like, okay, whatever.
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And that cost us thousands of dollars.
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But before that, we re getting the same amount of views for just recording over Zoom calls.
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And our cost was a few hundred bucks, maybe 600 bucks a month.
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And we don t do much to market our
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podcasts.
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But on the flip side, if I look at all my other social channels, and channels like SEO, etc, I spent more than 140 grand a month.
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Podcasts, I could get it done in less than 1000.
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It s just not that competitive.
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So I love it.
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Listeners, if you haven t started a podcast, look into it, but I would definitely.
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Tell you that before you do really research different people who are doing it, understand how people put on different shows, the formats they use interviews, non-interviews, individual episodes, non-individual episodes, length of time you want to do it.
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But more importantly than anything, what I had to get in my mind, Neil, is that I was going to do this for the long haul, because as you were saying, so many people start.
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After 10, 15 episodes, they don t see the traction that they re hoping for.
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I certainly didn t either, but I kept going with it, just setting a goal to myself that I was going to do at least a year before I even started reconsidering what I was doing.
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And I think the same thing goes with any posting that you re doing.
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It s not as if you re going to start using X and overnight, you re going to start having your posts take off.
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Same thing with LinkedIn.
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etc.
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So no matter what you re doing, I think it comes down to consistency, which is something that you talk about quite frequently.
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But most people are too lazy to be consistent.
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Just being honest, they really are.
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It does take work.
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But I think what people get wrong is they think they have to be overly creative, or they think that they have to package these things in the right way.
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And what I found works for me the most is whenever you re putting out there is authentic.
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And people, I think, can sense that in the person who s delivering it.
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What are your thoughts on that?
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Authenticity is huge.
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If you re not authentic, people see right through it and it doesn t work out.
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You just got to be yourself.
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you got to be careful to being yourself can cause issues as well.
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For example, some people are politically opinionated or religiously opinionated, and you can
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off a lot of people from that or some people are very opinionated on things like what s happening with the war or the world and You just got to be careful because you ve seen I ve seen people not buy Tesla s anymore because of what Elon Musk puts out I m not here to tell you what he puts out is bad or good.
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That s his life and it s his prerogative but
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It affects business whether you like it or not and you just have to be careful what you put out and just be cautious about it.
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The internet stores stuff.
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It s out there forever.
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Clicking a delete button doesn t mean it s gone.
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A lot of people screen capture all this stuff.
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Yes, I know this firsthand because as I ve approached this, I ve just decided to go right down the middle and not take any sides at all.
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Because what I m trying to do is help people from all walks of life.
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And I don t really care what their political affiliation is, what their religious affiliation is, what their sexual orientation is.
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I just want to help.
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And I always feel if you come down even slightly on one side or another, you re alienating a certain component of your audience.
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So I feel it s just more beneficial, at least for what I m doing to not try to take any sides at all, but you re right.
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There are a ton of people.
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Sean Ryan is a great example, another podcaster and veteran who I know who does take a very strong angle, but in so doing, he has also attracted a very big crowd who follows that angle.
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So it s just becomes a personal choice in what you re doing.
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SPEAKER_01
At the end of the day, the way I m looking at marketing just in general is there s going to be a lot of ups and downs.
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SPEAKER_01
There s going to be a lot of things that you like or don t like or that you see or people judging or people putting comments that can hurt your feelings or can hurt business.
2
SPEAKER_01
You got to not just think things through, but you also have to have pretty tough skin, right?
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SPEAKER_01
Especially as your personal brand grows.
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SPEAKER_00
Man, I have seen that firsthand, the more it grows.
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SPEAKER_00
And I think the more people see it out there, the more you start getting attacks.
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SPEAKER_00
And sometimes what I ve seen is they come from the closest people that you have in your life.
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SPEAKER_00
And it s really an interesting dynamic how that happens, but unless you re doing it, you re not going to be able to get yourself out there.
2
SPEAKER_00
So.
2
SPEAKER_00
To me, you just have to have that thick skin and realize that you re talking about your own success, your own journey, your own values and that s really what matters.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yep.
2
SPEAKER_00
And speaking of people who are authentic, I just wanted to talk about two and maybe we could explore, since they re both very successful at what they re doing, maybe what has caused them to have this distinctively successful niches that they ve each inserted themselves into.
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SPEAKER_00
The first is Tim Ferriss and the second is Jay Shetty.
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SPEAKER_00
And both have really exploded.
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SPEAKER_00
I look at what Jay has done over the past three or four years, and he is just like a rocket ship.
2
SPEAKER_00
And the same thing with Tim Ferriss, who you could say is very authentically who he is and how he presents themselves.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I was hoping you might be able to use those two as case studies on what are they doing right.
2
SPEAKER_00
And what is causing their content to take off in the way it is.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, first off, they re not in niches.
2
SPEAKER_01
People say the riches are in the niches.
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SPEAKER_01
That s far from true.
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SPEAKER_01
The riches are in big, massive TAMs that appeal to everyone.
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SPEAKER_01
The biggest companies in the world create stuff that appeals to everyone, not niches.
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SPEAKER_01
The second thing is they ve been doing it for a very long time.
2
SPEAKER_01
And the third is they focus on trying to creating amazing content that really resonates with others.
2
SPEAKER_01
Look how many experiments Tim has run with his own life, own body for some of his books to really gain traction, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
It s not like you just crank something out and be like, yeah, here you go.
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SPEAKER_01
He puts in a lot of time and energy.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I like his new series that he s doing where he is partnering.
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SPEAKER_00
If people haven t seen this, he s partnering with professionals doing things that he has never done before.
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SPEAKER_00
For instance, he had never played drums before and he did a whole learning segment with Stuart Copeland, the drummer for the police.
2
SPEAKER_00
And basically is on camera being vulnerable, showing himself learning how to play drums as well as other things.
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SPEAKER_00
And I think that approach is really ingenious because it really puts him out there and it makes him vulnerable in a way that other people can see basically his screw ups and also his progress.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think the point he s trying to make with it is that if you look at the people who.
2
SPEAKER_00
are making gains in any area of their life.
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SPEAKER_00
It s because they re investing time in it.
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SPEAKER_00
And if you just simply invest 10 to 15 minutes of your time every single day, and you do that for a year, you re going to be better in that field than probably 95% of the, of the other people on the planet.
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SPEAKER_00
I m just using that as an example, but it s probably not far from the truth.
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SPEAKER_00
And I think the same thing goes with what you re talking about here with content.
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SPEAKER_00
Can you kind of put those two thoughts together?
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, it s yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
And funny enough, Google talks about something called E and it s E-A-T.
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SPEAKER_01
So it stands for experience, expertise, authority, and trust.
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SPEAKER_01
When your content has that, it s much more likely to do better.
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SPEAKER_01
So for example, if you re playing the drums, you can share your own personal experiences if you re brand new to it.
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SPEAKER_01
But on the flip side, if you re the lead drummer for The Police, which is one of the most famous bands, right, from back in the day, you can talk about your own experiences and techniques and things like that that others don t teach you at school to get really good at playing the drums.
2
SPEAKER_01
What people want is they want that personal touch in your content, stuff that you re just not going to find on YouTube in a normal how-to video.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
And for the person who s listening to this, who feels that internet marketing is a moving target, meaning the tools and platforms are constantly changing.
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SPEAKER_00
We now have AI, social media platforms are making changes.
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SPEAKER_00
Google puts out new algorithms all the time.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think a lot of people are thinking, how do you keep up with all this and keep your head above the water in such a rapidly changing climate?
2
SPEAKER_00
What would be your advice to them?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so my advice to them is continually read and stay up to date, go to their current conferences and you ll know how to stay ahead.
2
SPEAKER_01
And for example, like today, Google released a algorithm update or announcement about it and they confirmed it.
2
SPEAKER_01
They re trying to get rid of 40% of the unhelpful content out on the web.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s great.
2
SPEAKER_01
And they broke down what they re changing, reading it and staying up to date.
2
SPEAKER_01
There was a few key takeaways, like they want original content, not duplicate content or regurgitated.
2
SPEAKER_01
Non-helpful content isn t going to do as well.
2
SPEAKER_01
And they may not even index it in their web.
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SPEAKER_01
And you got to look at it as, Oh, if you create AI content or content through AI, a lot of it s just going to be regurgitated.
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SPEAKER_00
It won t be as helpful.
3
SPEAKER_00
So it s focusing on.
3
SPEAKER_00
The signals that people are putting out there, the platforms are so you can adapt and do better.
3
SPEAKER_01
So did I just hear you say that they re going to get rid of 40% of content that they find not valuable, unhelpful content?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes, but that it s a, probably a really tiny percentage.
3
SPEAKER_00
You get what I mean, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
Cause it s like what is unhelpful, but they think they can get rid of like 40% of the junk.
3
SPEAKER_01
So Neil, I wanted to ask you, knowing your audience is critical, how do you stay connected with your audience s evolving needs and preferences?
3
SPEAKER_01
And how do you choose when you need to adapt what you re doing?
3
SPEAKER_00
So the way I stay in touch with my audiences, you continually communicate with them, direct message them, help them out whenever they have questions, respond to comments.
3
SPEAKER_00
And what was the second part of your question?
3
SPEAKER_00
One was to staying connected and the other was?
3
SPEAKER_01
The second one is how do you stay.
3
SPEAKER_01
Evolved with knowing what their preferences are and how they are changing and then changing your approach to their evolution.
3
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, you get feedback when you stay connected and then you can test new things out and you can see how it works.
3
SPEAKER_00
Either it s going to work out well or it won t.
3
SPEAKER_00
But the way you adapt is a simpler approach.
3
SPEAKER_00
You just test new things based on the feedback you get.
3
SPEAKER_00
If it resonates, it ll do well.
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SPEAKER_00
If it doesn t resonate, it won t do well.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then to move on and try something else.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay, one of the things I ve put some time into is understanding storytelling, because I think storytelling has been very critical in me trying to explain my brand and also the content that I tried to put on the channel.
3
SPEAKER_01
Even when I was getting ready for your interview, I was trying to look back at your story and the stories that you put out there.
3
SPEAKER_01
What tips can you offer for listeners and how they can craft compelling narratives and better utilize storytelling?
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SPEAKER_00
Think of like soap operas.
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SPEAKER_00
If you haven t watched one in a while, like me, you can always just turn on the TV and you can find one.
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SPEAKER_00
pretty much in any country, or you can just find one on YouTube.
3
SPEAKER_00
And think about the emotional roller coaster that they drive, take you through, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
That s example of really good storytelling.
3
SPEAKER_00
And what you got to do is think about the moments in your story, the scary ones, the happy ones, the good ones, the bad ones, exciting ones.
3
SPEAKER_00
And you got to figure out how to integrate them and take people throughout the journey.
3
SPEAKER_00
And make sure you share the details because the devil s in the details of storytelling.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s how you get a story to do really well.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s when you lack the details, the stories tend not to do well.
3
SPEAKER_01
I love that.
3
SPEAKER_01
So details matter.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I guess not only the details, but how you portray them, the emotion that you re using to talk through them.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I know for me, when I was starting this podcast, it was hard for me at first to be vulnerable because some of the things that you end up sharing are really painful, but
3
SPEAKER_01
Once you start sharing them, you realize that this.
3
SPEAKER_01
Sabertooth tiger that you ve been worried about jumping out at you.
3
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t do that.
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SPEAKER_01
In fact, I think it makes people just tune in more because they see that you are sharing and.
3
SPEAKER_01
If someone is at that point now where they do have some great stories, but they don t feel the confidence or maybe the self, maybe they re worried about self criticism or criticism that they might get from it.
3
SPEAKER_01
What would be your recommendations for them?
3
SPEAKER_00
So you re saying someone ends up posting it and they re getting criticism for it, or they re not doing, no, I m saying that they are kind of afraid to put themselves out there.
3
SPEAKER_01
And how do you break through that mindset that.
3
SPEAKER_01
feeling that it s unsafe to realizing that you re going to need to share if you want to grow.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s really simple.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you don t put anything out there, nothing will happen.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you put something out there and it sucks and people don t like it, no one s going to see it and nothing s going to happen anyways.
3
SPEAKER_00
And if it s good, people will see it and they ll get traction and you ll feel great.
3
SPEAKER_01
So basically you might as well experiment with it.
3
SPEAKER_01
And if it doesn t do what you re thinking, it s going to do, it s probably not touching that many people anyhow.
3
SPEAKER_01
And therefore what is the loss and giving it a try?
3
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
I guess when you grow and now you re talking to millions of people a month, what you say has more meaning, but I still think
3
SPEAKER_01
that people who have been tuning into you this long probably understand parts of your story.
3
SPEAKER_01
And the more that you can share parts that they don t know, I think it makes you more enduring.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
And people know not everything is going to be perfect or accurate, or not everyone s going to like everything.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
Adapt as time goes on.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s why I said earlier in the interview, people need to learn to have thick skin.
3
SPEAKER_01
So there are a lot of things changing when it comes to social media.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think the biggest one is probably AI and our use of it.
3
SPEAKER_01
But what do you suggest for the audience to invest their time in?
3
SPEAKER_01
What trends, what new technologies that you think are going to shape personal branding in the near future?
3
SPEAKER_00
ChatGPT, amazing for doing research and helping you come up with ideas for content.
3
SPEAKER_00
So is Gemini.
3
SPEAKER_00
There s a lot of image tools out there like MidJourney, which are amazing.
3
SPEAKER_00
Sora is going to be amazing in the video creation.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I think these AI tools, you should use them, play with them.
3
SPEAKER_00
They re not at the point where they drastically help with personal branding or marketing in general.
3
SPEAKER_00
A lot of the data analysis that they do, the tools are off.
3
SPEAKER_00
A lot of the information they spit out is inaccurate and off.
3
SPEAKER_00
There s a lot of work that these tools need to do.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I like using them just to get an idea.
3
SPEAKER_01
Let s say I m working on a solo episode just to help me think about the structure that I m going to use for it.
3
SPEAKER_01
But what I have found when I ve used these is there is a ton of inaccuracies in the data that they pull.
3
SPEAKER_01
Plus it reflects a completely different personality than who you are and your typical writing style.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I have not found anything that comes close to the way I like to write, nor is it going to know your personal stories and how to weave them into the content, which makes it unique.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and when you think about AI too, Sergey Brin, the co-founder of Google, who came out of retirement to work on AI, even said Gemini leans left and so does Chad GPT and Grok and a lot of the others out there.
3
SPEAKER_00
We re talking about from a political stance.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I don t really have any views on any of that kind of stuff, but it doesn t matter where you stand politically, just to show you how much work is involved,
3
SPEAKER_00
The way these platforms succeed is not to be biased, it s to be neutral and just share everything, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
That s how far they are from being perfect.
3
SPEAKER_00
They know these things.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s hard to get these tools and these technologies to be perfect.
3
SPEAKER_00
It takes so many hours and so much time.
3
SPEAKER_00
Everyone s like, look how fast Chad GPT is evolving.
3
SPEAKER_00
It is evolving fast, but they haven t been working on it for a year or anything.
3
SPEAKER_00
This company is more than five or six years old.
3
SPEAKER_00
I agree it s progressing at a really rapid pace and it ll continue to, but people just have to be patient because
3
SPEAKER_00
You re not going to get, people are in essence are overestimating what AI can do for them in the short run, but they re underestimating what it can do for them in the long run.
3
SPEAKER_00
It ll be able to do way more than you can imagine in the long run, but in the short run, it s not a magic wand that you can wave and it solves all problems.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes, I think you just use it as an augmentation of what you re doing already.
3
SPEAKER_01
And what I found is the trick is just knowing what input to put into it to get the type of content you want out of it.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because the questions you ask, the tone that you ask it to set, the audience you ask it to deliver it for really matter when you re looking at the output of what it s delivering back to you.
3
SPEAKER_01
So those are some things that I ve seen when I ve been trying to play around with it, because my thought is instead of just ignoring it, the more I can learn about it and how to best utilize it on top of everything else I m doing is just going to make everything I m doing much easier.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yep.
3
SPEAKER_01
So one of the things I ve heard you talk about in the past is the power of collaborations and networking.
3
SPEAKER_01
How have collaborations accelerated your brand s growth and how do you select your collaborators and recommend others select theirs?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Collaborations is a great way to just grow your brand.
3
SPEAKER_00
And the way you select it is who has similar size audiences or bigger audiences or slightly smaller, but their audience are related to yours and their audience should love to learn about you and vice versa.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I think that s good.
3
SPEAKER_01
I see some collaborators are closer to my niche than others.
3
SPEAKER_01
And there are some who want to pull in someone of equivalent size.
3
SPEAKER_01
So.
4
SPEAKER_00
it would be me trying to Sam collaborate with Jay Shetty when we re at two completely different marketing levels.
4
SPEAKER_00
But how could you go about attracting influencers, even influencers or collaborators, even if you re smaller than them who might want to partner with you?
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you would first build a relationship, reach out to them, comment on their posts, get to know them, direct message them.
4
SPEAKER_01
It actually starts with the relationship.
4
SPEAKER_01
You could also try the cold outreach.
4
SPEAKER_01
We find the cold outreach to work quite well on LinkedIn.
4
SPEAKER_01
Uh, we found it to work better on LinkedIn than say Instagram or some of the other networks, but just cold outreach and building relationships.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
And what s your thoughts on LinkedIn?
4
SPEAKER_00
Do you think it s important to sign up for one of their pay to play programs or do you shy against that?
4
SPEAKER_01
You can sign up for it.
4
SPEAKER_01
There s nothing wrong with it, but we just use a lot of the free features.
4
SPEAKER_01
I know that our company people do have paid accounts too.
4
SPEAKER_01
And at our company, we probably have many paid accounts.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m not saying they re good or they re bad.
4
SPEAKER_01
You can use either one.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, you have been really successful with your content on LinkedIn.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I ve been talking to Tim Denning a lot about it as well, whose content moves.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I found some things that were pretty interesting.
4
SPEAKER_00
At first, I really thought that the newsletters were going to take off, but several people I ve been talking to are saying they re not really benefiting
4
SPEAKER_00
people as much as they thought and LinkedIn is really pushing them down a couple pegs as far as them really trying to promote the newsletters.
4
SPEAKER_00
What have you heard and found?
4
SPEAKER_01
I ve seen people do really well with them.
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t know how much they re downplaying them or not.
4
SPEAKER_01
I just don t spend too much time on them because they don t necessarily produce the results that one may be looking for.
4
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t mean that they re downplaying them.
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t think the community cares too much for them more than anything else.
4
SPEAKER_01
If everyone adapts and loves newsletters, LinkedIn would push it more.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think the problem is a lot of people don t care for the feature.
4
SPEAKER_00
Gotcha.
4
SPEAKER_00
So if that s not what is attracting people, what are your, some of your recommendations specifically on LinkedIn on what type of content does work?
4
SPEAKER_01
The type of content that works is the stuff that you posted on X earlier.
4
SPEAKER_01
Remember we talked about posting multiple times a day, take your hits and then post it on LinkedIn.
4
SPEAKER_01
That model works.
4
SPEAKER_00
And sometimes what I m posting on Twitter might be more personal mastery type of things.
4
SPEAKER_01
Well on LinkedIn too.
4
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t have to be professional just because it s a professional network.
4
SPEAKER_01
I see people posting B2C content on LinkedIn and doing well too.
4
SPEAKER_00
And what s your thoughts about the use of hashtags or tagging people or putting links into the post, those types of things?
4
SPEAKER_01
They re all great.
4
SPEAKER_01
There s nothing wrong with that, but we do see hashtags not working as well as they used to.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s better than nothing.
4
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
4
SPEAKER_00
I had always been told that not to put links in the actual posts themselves and to put into the comments because LinkedIn doesn t want to promote something that s going to take someone away from their platform.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s most social networks.
4
SPEAKER_01
The moment you link out to a competitor at any site, they don t like it as much.
4
SPEAKER_01
They d rather keep people on their own platform.
4
SPEAKER_00
Okay, so how has another topic that I want to talk about is customer feedback over the long term.
4
SPEAKER_00
How much has that shaped your company and your brands, or is it something you listen to, but you stick to your strategy and maybe use this to do slight adjustments.
4
SPEAKER_01
We stick with our strategy.
4
SPEAKER_01
We then get feedback or not even stick.
4
SPEAKER_01
We start our strategy.
4
SPEAKER_01
We get feedback.
4
SPEAKER_01
If enough people give us the similar feedback, we then adjust the strategy.
4
SPEAKER_01
So it can shape it by a little or drastically depending on what percentage give us the feedback.
4
SPEAKER_01
If everyone says you re doing something wrong and we don t like this, we change.
4
SPEAKER_01
If one out of thousands says we don t like this, probably ignore it and move on and keep doing what we re doing.
4
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
4
SPEAKER_00
And one of the things that I think is extremely important in anything you do is to measure the performance of what you re doing.
4
SPEAKER_00
What metrics do you consider the most important for measuring your social performance and how it s impacting your brand, whether that s your personal brand, or if you re running a small company, your company brand.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so funny enough, I just gave a talk about this morning with the metrics that most people don t measure on social media.
4
SPEAKER_01
And it was quite interesting.
4
SPEAKER_01
So interesting stuff for you.
4
SPEAKER_01
62.3% of the world uses social media, but less than 1% actually knows how to measure their social media success or failure.
4
SPEAKER_01
So the 11 KPIs that we look at is conversions, impressions.
4
SPEAKER_01
So conversions, just sticking with that one first, conversions is are you getting leads or direct sales?
4
SPEAKER_01
Impressions is how many views is your account getting?
4
SPEAKER_01
Geography, are you targeting the right region or country that is your ideal buyer?
4
SPEAKER_01
Follower count, if it s going up and to the right, that s good.
4
SPEAKER_01
Engagement rate, what s a percentage?
4
SPEAKER_01
What s your percent engagement rate when you post a video or image or text?
4
SPEAKER_01
Your audience growth, like how fast are you growing on a monthly basis?
4
SPEAKER_01
How many direct messages are you getting?
4
SPEAKER_01
And what s the sentiment of those direct messages?
4
SPEAKER_01
Are they asking for help or business?
4
SPEAKER_01
Are they saying great content?
4
SPEAKER_01
Post timing, if you post during the wrong time, you may not do as well.
4
SPEAKER_01
Brand mentions, the more people brand mentioning your brand, the better off you are.
4
SPEAKER_01
Comment sentiment.
4
SPEAKER_01
If a lot of the comments are negative, then you re not doing something good.
4
SPEAKER_01
And if they re positive, you re doing something right.
4
SPEAKER_01
And retention, if people are watching a video or engaging with your content, how many of them stick to the end?
4
SPEAKER_01
Those like the 11 KPIs that a lot of people need to track, but don t with their social.
4
SPEAKER_00
Man, that is a great list.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m going to have to put those in the show notes because that s a great starting point.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think for anyone.
4
SPEAKER_00
And speaking of marketing, a lot of people now are writing more books.
4
SPEAKER_00
What are some of your best tips for someone who s written a book to keep getting the message about the book out there and to drive not only sales of the book, but more the messaging that you re trying to bring from the book so that you can get things such as keynotes and other leads into your main business from it?
4
SPEAKER_01
Sure.
4
SPEAKER_01
Continue to try to sell the book from your website, talk about it, get it mentioned in articles, promote it when you re on podcasts.
4
SPEAKER_01
All these things helps with book sales, which then gets you more speaking gigs.
4
SPEAKER_01
Two, there are a lot of speaker bureaus out there.
4
SPEAKER_01
Submit yourself to them, talk about your book, and that will also help you get way more speaking gigs.
4
SPEAKER_01
That you may have to start by speaking at some conferences for free, and you can talk and plug in your book.
4
SPEAKER_01
And as you do well, and you get more, better ratings and reviews, then hopefully you ll get more speaking gigs and hopefully they ll be paid.
4
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I have just a couple more questions for you.
4
SPEAKER_00
The first one would be advice for aspiring entrepreneurs.
4
SPEAKER_00
What is your top piece of advice for those who are looking to build a massive brand in the future?
4
SPEAKER_00
Where would you start?
4
SPEAKER_00
What are the first one, two, three things that you would do?
4
SPEAKER_01
You can do it in any different way.
4
SPEAKER_01
You can post content on Facebook or Instagram or social or create it.
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It s not about the one, two or three.
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That part s really easy because most people already know how to use social media.
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The hardest part is you got to pick a topic that s a big market and be that you re passionate about.
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If you re not passionate about it, you won t create good content and you won t create enough of it consistently.
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I love that you bring up passion given the name of this podcast is passion struck so appreciate that.
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And then lastly, I ve heard you talk a lot about fundamentals, and you ve mentioned that success is about mastering the basics.
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Can you share an instance when maybe you or you ve seen another influencer who s returning to the fundamentals significantly impacted where they were and helped to kind of take their brand to the next level?
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Yeah, I haven t seen it too much with individuals because I don t track a ton.
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I ve seen it with corporations where a lot of these big corporations stick with the fundamentals and they ve done wonders with their growth rate and their revenue.
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But just think about what s working and it may not always be sexy and just keep doubling down on it even if it s not sexy.
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Okay.
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And then Neil, for those who might not be familiar with your work, where are some of the best places for them to go to learn more about you, but more importantly, some of the services that you offer.
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So I have an ad agency called NP digital, where we help companies grow and they can just go to NP digital.com blog, Neil Patel.com.
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All my social handles are pretty much Neil Patel.
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Okay.
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Well, Neil, thank you so much for being here.
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And it was such an honor to have you on the show.
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Thanks for having me.
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What an incredible honor that was to interview Neil Patel.
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And I wanted to thank Neil for joining us on today s show links to all things.
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Neil Patel will be in the show notes of passionstruck.com.
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Please use our website links.
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If you purchase any of the books from the guests that we feature here on the show videos are on YouTube, but both John R. Miles and our clips channel at passionstruck clips, please go check it out and subscribe and join over a quarter of a million other.
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Subscribers, advertiser deals and discount codes are in one convenient place at passionstruck.com slash deals.
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Please consider supporting those who support the show and make it free for our listeners.
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You can find me on all the social platforms at John R. Miles, where I post daily doses of inspiration.
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Or if you want to join the passion struck challenge, you can do it by signing up for our newsletter, live intentionally.
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And you can do that by going to passionstruck.com.
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You re about to hear a preview of the passion struck podcast interview that I did with Dr. Michael Greger.
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who s a renowned physician, New York Times bestselling author, and a celebrated public health expert.
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Dr. Greger joins us to discuss his new groundbreaking book, How Not to Age, the scientific approach to getting healthier as you get older.
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This isn t just any podcast episode.
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It s a comprehensive guide to aging gracefully, packed with evidence-based strategies to enhance your health and wellbeing.
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In these countries, our most common and major diseases were universally rare, like heart disease.
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In the African population of Uganda, for example, coronary artery disease was almost non-existent.
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If you look at age-matched heart attack rates in Uganda versus St.
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Louis, out of 632 autopsies in Uganda, one myocardial infarction, and it was evidence of a healed myocardial infarction, so it wasn t even the cause of death.
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Yet, out of 632 autopsies in Missouri, same age and gender distribution, 136 myocardial infarctions.
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100 times the rate of our leading killer.
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In fact, they were so blown away, went back, did another 800 autopsies in Uganda, and still just that one small healed infarct out of 1,427 patients, less than one in a thousand.
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Whereas here in the United States, heart disease is an epidemic.
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Remember that we rise by lifting others, so share the show with those that you love and care about.
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And if you find someone who could use Neil Patel s guidance, then definitely share the show with them.
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The greatest compliment that you can give us is to share the show with those that you love and care about the most.
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In the meantime, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so that you can live what you listen.
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Until next time, go out there and become Hash Instructor.