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SPEAKER_10
 Bring a little optimism into your life with The Bright Side, a new kind of daily podcast from Hello Sunshine, hosted by me, Danielle Robay.
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And me, Simone Boyce.
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Every weekday, we're bringing you conversations about culture, the latest trends, inspiration, and so much more.
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I am so excited about this podcast, The Bright Side.
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You guys are giving people a chance to shine a light on their lives, shine a light on a little advice that they want to share.
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 Listen to The Bright Side on America's number one podcast network, iHeart.
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Open your free iHeart app and search The Bright Side.
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SPEAKER_08
 Guess what, Will?
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SPEAKER_08
What's up, Mango?
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I've been trying to write a promo for our podcast, Part-Time Genius, but even though we've done over 250 episodes, we don't really talk about murders or cults.
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SPEAKER_07
I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese, so I feel like that makes us pretty edgy.
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We also solve mysteries like how Chinese is your Chinese food and how do dollar stores make money?
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SPEAKER_07
And then, of course, can you game a dog show?
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SPEAKER_07
 So what you're saying is everyone should be listening.
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SPEAKER_07
Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
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SPEAKER_09
This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol.
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SPEAKER_09
The joy they brought to the nation.
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SPEAKER_04
You're free completely.
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SPEAKER_04
No one is there to destroy you.
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SPEAKER_09
The danger they endured.
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SPEAKER_03
They said my head should be cut off.
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SPEAKER_09
 I'm John Legend.
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SPEAKER_09
Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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SPEAKER_05
If you looked at it from the outside in, people would say, well, dropping out of college, that was a pretty big risk.
0
SPEAKER_05
Taking the company private, that was a pretty big risk.
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SPEAKER_05
Doing the largest tech acquisition ever with $50 or $60 billion in debt, that was a pretty big risk.
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But to me, they actually didn't see that risk.
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SPEAKER_01
 Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world, thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn and grow.
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Now, today's guest is someone that I was really excited to have today on the show, because I think there's so many moments in his life where he's gone through experiences that we can all learn from.
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 I'm talking about none other than Michael Dell, the Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Dell Technologies, an innovator and technology leader providing the essential infrastructure for organizations to build their digital future.
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Now, he's the author of two books,
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 including the next upcoming book.
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The one that I really want you to read is Play Nice But Win, a CEO's Journey from Founder to Leader.
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I love the title.
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I've already loved chapters of the book that I've read, and I cannot wait for you to read it.
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Michael is an honorary member of the Foundation Board of the World Economic Forum and is an executive committee member of the International Business Council.
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 I welcome to the show Michael Dell.
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Michael, thank you for taking the time to do this.
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I cannot wait for people to read your book, and I'm so lucky that I get to sit down with you as the author of the book before everyone gets to.
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So thank you so much for your energy.
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SPEAKER_05
Yeah, thank you, Jay.
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Great to be with you, and great to be with your audience.
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 Yeah, like I said, I love the title.
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I want to dive into the book a bit later, but I want to start off with asking you a question that I've been asking a lot of people recently, because I think there's something beautiful about learning about this.
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I'll share with you a story.
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I work with a lot of corporate clients as a speaker or a coach.
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 And I was speaking with one of my clients recently, and of course, we're on Zoom, and he's got something in his background, and I'm wondering what it is.
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And he has a paintbrush hanging on his background wall, and it's a real paintbrush, and it's a big paintbrush, you can't miss it.
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And I said to him, I said, look, I don't want to be creepy, but I'm just being curious, why do you have a paintbrush on your wall?
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 And he started laughing.
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He said, no one's ever asked me that before.
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And I was thinking, wow, people must really be scared of you.
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But he said that the reason he has it is because his first ever job was that he used to paint fences.
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And then when he did that successfully, he painted walls.
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And then when he did that successfully, he got to paint homes.
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And he keeps that paintbrush up there to remind him of where he started.
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Today, he's a very successful executive.
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I wanted to ask you, what was your first ever, ever job
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 that you did?
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And is there a lesson that you learned there that you've carried with you throughout your success?
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Yeah, you know, I, first of all, I'm a big believer in those early jobs, you know, my first job, I was 12 years old, I was a dishwasher in a Chinese restaurant, I got promoted to water boy, and then assistant maitre d. So I was moving up pretty fast.
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 And I got recruited away by another restaurant.
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And I've been working every day since then, pretty much.
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And I have to say, I've loved it.
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That's incredible.
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Do you mind me asking you, how much did you used to make at the time as a 12-year-old?
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I guess it was like, this would have been in 1977.
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So what was the minimum wage back then?
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Like $1 or $2 or something like that?
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It wasn't very much.
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Yeah.
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What would you save it up for?
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What were you doing with that money at that time?
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What was it leading towards?
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 Yeah so at the time I was into stamps and I started you know I was collecting stamps then I started like buying and selling stamps I ran a stamp auction.
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 I got into stocks and currencies when I was like 14, 15, started investing.
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My mom was a stockbroker, really got interested in financial markets.
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Around 14, 15, it was sort of the dawn of the microprocessor age.
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And I happened to get exposed to the origins of what became the PC.
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And that obviously impacted my life in a big way.
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 So if you were a 12-year-old today, you'd be doing NFTs and crypto, and that would be your world, I'm guessing, seeing as what I'm hearing from you all the time.
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Probably, yeah.
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Now there's so many interesting things going on with technology and the intersection of the biological sciences and the computational sciences, and
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 You know, it used to be technology was about IT departments and stuff like that.
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Now it's pretty much affecting everything and every business is getting upended in some way by technology and AI and data and
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 networks, and it's super exciting to see the pace that the economy is changing with technology at the fulcrum of that.
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Absolutely, and I know that you dropped out of college, and a lot of successful founders have dropped out of college, and I'm not at all recommending that or encouraging that, and neither are you.
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I'm intrigued to think about, though, if you finished your degree,
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 How differently do you think your life would have gone?
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That's the first part of the question.
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And the second part of the question is, what gave you the courage to actually drop out and pursue something which at the time, as you said, was very new and very cutting edge and innovative, but people didn't really have a lot of certainty and surety around it?
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Yeah, you know, it seemed like kind of an easy decision for me.
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I mean, let me start with the first part.
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You know, what would have happened if I'd graduated?
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 I don't know.
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I don't know that I would have gone down this path.
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I might be like a doctor in Houston somewhere, which is what my parents wanted me to be.
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But
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 When I started, first of all, if you have nothing, you have nothing to lose, right?
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So it's a pretty easy decision.
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The University of Texas here in Austin, you can take a semester off and come back with no academic penalty.
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So that was kind of the deal I made with my parents that I would go do this for a while.
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And if it worked out, I would keep doing it.
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And if it didn't, I'd go back to school.
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So it didn't seem like an enormous risk.
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 To me, my parents were pretty upset with me for sure because, you know, when the world they came from, giving up an opportunity for an education was like the worst thing you could possibly do.
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 But it all worked out.
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I love that.
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I want to hear more about that interaction with your parents, Michael, because I feel there are so many children today and young people and young adults that go through the same experience as you did.
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They either want to quit or they want to start something new, or they're on the verge of an idea they have, but they don't have the confidence.
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Their parents might not be into it.
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 what does someone look to at that time, at that early stage in their career where they don't have the wins on their list yet?
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They don't have the successes, but they wanna follow their dreams, follow their passion, follow their heart.
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What advice do you have for someone who's in that position right now?
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Well, it's difficult and extremely emotional.
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And I talk about this in the book and the kind of struggle that I had with that and with my parents.
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Ultimately,
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 I just decided that I was gonna do this whether or not I had their approval.
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 which was a really tough thing to do.
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And my mother was unbelievably upset with me.
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And I would say it took about a year or two, maybe three to sort of fully get through that.
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I don't know that there is universal advice here other than if you are in a situation where you can take the risk,
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 and you don't have a lot to lose and you can fall back on something else.
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Look, I think a lot of people
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 don't achieve even a small fraction of what they're capable of, because they're afraid to fail.
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And they're not willing to take on more risk.
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And there's a lot of potential that's left on the field that never gets utilized.
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Because people want the perfect plan, or they want to do what they're supposed to do, or they're just not willing to take on that risk.
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And we need people to take on risk, not just
0
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 for new companies but you know for existing companies and to redo and rethink and reimagine our world you know we can't just like do a little bit better version of what we had before we have to constantly be reimagining things.
0
SPEAKER_01
 You spoke a lot about risk there, Michael.
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I'm wondering, what do you think is the biggest risk you ever took?
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You said that decision was fairly easy.
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What do you think?
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What was a time when you feel you like, yeah, I took a big risk and whether it paid off or not, I'd love to hear about how it panned out.
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But what was the biggest risk you ever took?
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If you looked at it from the outside in, you know, people would say, well, dropping out of college, that was a pretty big risk.
0
SPEAKER_05
 Taking the company private, that was a pretty big risk.
0
SPEAKER_05
Doing the largest tech acquisition ever with $50 or $60 billion in debt, that was a pretty big risk.
0
SPEAKER_05
But to me, they actually didn't seem that risky, right?
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Because on a risk-adjusted basis, I could see my way through to the opportunity.
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And could it have all gone wrong?
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Sure, but I didn't think it was going to.
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It's also a situation where
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 You know, if I had sat there and said, gee, should I drop out of school?
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Should I not drop out of school?
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Let's go talk to 10 or 100 people and ask them what they think.
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 probably most of them would have told me, you're crazy for dropping out of school, okay?
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I didn't ask anybody.
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That wasn't how I was thinking about it.
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Yeah, what would you say would be your biggest failure to date that you feel like you were down and out where it was a really tough situation?
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Was there a moment where things really felt like they weren't working out?
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When would that have been?
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Well, look, there have been plenty of times and I think what people maybe fail to understand is that
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 embedded in success are failures.
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SPEAKER_05
Right.
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And at the root of success you have kind of curiosity, learning, experimenting and failure.
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And without those things, you don't have any success.
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SPEAKER_05
Right.
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 Failures are, are not necessarily bad, you know, especially if you're learning from them.
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And so, yeah, we've had all kinds of failures along the way to, uh, you know, cumulative revenues of about $1.4 trillion.
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Right.
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But yeah, I mean, you know, early on we had some super ambitious technical projects that failed and we learned from that.
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We built a lot of capability that allowed us to.
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SPEAKER_05
 Marc Titus, Ph.D.
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SPEAKER_05
: Create all kinds of new new products.
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As a result, we had inventory planning challenges early on that led us to be really world class at supply chain management because we had to write and and
0
SPEAKER_05
 You know, necessity is the mother of invention and the key is to learn from the failures and correct them quickly and hopefully not make the same mistakes over and over again.
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 If you can learn from other people's mistakes, learn from your new mistakes that you're making and correct them quickly, you're going to be very successful.
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You've got to be willing to experiment and fail.
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SPEAKER_05
The other thing is, when you're going into new areas,
0
SPEAKER_05
 There's no playbook, right?
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SPEAKER_05
You can't read a book or talk to an expert and tell you how to do this.
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You just have to start.
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I love that.
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Thank you, Michael.
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No, I love hearing that.
0
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It's always wonderful to hear of someone who seems to be having fun and growing continuously and enjoying life on the journey as well.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I want to come to your book now, Play Nice But Win, a CEO's Journey from Founder to Leader.
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SPEAKER_01
I wanted to talk about the title for a bit.
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SPEAKER_01
 When you hear the words, play nice, but win, were these words that you said a lot?
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Were these words that you heard a lot?
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How did these words take shape in your life?
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Yeah.
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So, um, my, my two brothers and I, uh, you know, when we were little kids and we would go out in the street and play ball with our friends, that's what our parents told us, you know, almost every time they say play nice, but win.
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SPEAKER_05
 And so it kind of became this philosophy of, you know, let's not forget about the winning part right but we're gonna we're gonna play nice.
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We're going to play fair.
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We're going to do it, you know, kind of ethically responsibly, but
0
SPEAKER_05
 Yeah, we're in it to win, right?
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And so it's kind of been something that's just stuck with me ever since I was a little kid and it goes back to my childhood and I talk about that in the book as well.
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Did you ever meet anyone along the way that tried to challenge that?
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 and tell you it wasn't possible or tell you you had to play ruthless, you had to play bad and win?
0
SPEAKER_01
Was there anyone who challenged that?
0
SPEAKER_01
And not specifically, I don't need you to tell me exactly who, I'm just saying, was there anyone who really debated and challenged that hypothesis and said, Michael, this is not going to work, you're going to have to play unfair?
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SPEAKER_01
And was there anyone in your life that you met that completely disagreed with that statement?
0
SPEAKER_05
 Well, look, I, you know, I've been running our company for 37 years.
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SPEAKER_05
I mean, I believe markets are long-term efficient, right?
0
SPEAKER_05
 And, you know, I think everything sort of comes back to you in a good way, you know, or a bad way if you're playing the other side.
0
SPEAKER_05
And I've just kind of avoided the opposite path.
0
SPEAKER_05
And it's worked for me.
0
SPEAKER_05
And, you know, it just feels right to me.
0
SPEAKER_05
And at the end of the day, you know, you have to feel
0
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 write about what you're doing.
0
SPEAKER_05
And you know, when I'm 90 or a hundred or hopefully older, I want to be proud of everything I did and the way I did it.
0
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And that's just really important to me.
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So, and, and look, I've, I've run into plenty of people that didn't play nice.
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And I just tried to, you know, certainly not have them in our company, you know, avoid doing business with them to the extent I could.
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SPEAKER_05
 And that's what's worked for me.
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 I'm Danielle Robay.
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SPEAKER_10
And I'm Simone Boyce.
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SPEAKER_02
Listen, both Danielle and I are reporters.
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SPEAKER_02
We've covered the news and we know the world can feel heavy.
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SPEAKER_02
But the Bright Side podcast is a space to have a little fun, to learn something new and get into some friendly debates.
0
SPEAKER_10
 That's right.
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Join us five days a week to see how life can look from the bright side.
0
SPEAKER_02
We'll hear from celebrities, authors, experts and listeners like you, whether it's relationships, friend advice or figuring out how to navigate life's transitions.
0
SPEAKER_02
We'll talk through it all together.
0
SPEAKER_10
Listen to the bright side from Hello Sunshine every weekday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
0
SPEAKER_07
 Guess what, Mango?
0
SPEAKER_07
What's that, Will?
0
SPEAKER_07
So iHeart is giving us a whole minute to promote our podcast, Part-Time Genius.
0
SPEAKER_08
I know, that's why I spent my whole week composing a haiku for the occasion.
0
SPEAKER_08
It's about my emotional journey in podcasting over the last seven years, and it's called Earthquake House.
0
SPEAKER_07
Mango, I'm gonna cut you off right there.
0
SPEAKER_08
Why don't we just tell people about our show instead?
0
SPEAKER_08
Yeah, that's a better idea.
0
SPEAKER_08
So every week on Part-Time Genius, we feed our curiosity by answering the world's most important questions.
0
SPEAKER_08
Things like, when did America start dialing 911?
0
SPEAKER_08
 is William Shatner's best acting work in Esperanto.
0
SPEAKER_08
Also, what happened to Esperanto?
0
SPEAKER_07
Plus, we cover questions like how Chinese is your Chinese food?
0
SPEAKER_07
How do dollar stores stay in business?
0
SPEAKER_07
And of course, is there an Illuminati of cheese?
0
SPEAKER_07
There absolutely is.
0
SPEAKER_08
And we are risking our lives by talking about it.
0
SPEAKER_08
But if you love mind blowing facts, incredible history and really bad jokes, make your brains happy and tune in to Part Time Genius.
0
SPEAKER_07
Listen to Part Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
0
SPEAKER_09
 When the Taliban banned music in Afghanistan, millions were plunged into silence.
0
SPEAKER_09
Radios were smashed.
0
SPEAKER_09
Cassettes burned.
0
SPEAKER_09
You could be beaten or jailed or killed for breaking the rules.
0
SPEAKER_09
And yet, Afghans did it anyway.
0
SPEAKER_09
 This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol.
0
SPEAKER_09
The danger they endured.
0
SPEAKER_03
They said my head should be cut off.
0
SPEAKER_09
The joy they brought to the nation.
0
SPEAKER_04
You're free completely.
0
SPEAKER_04
No one is there to destroy you.
0
SPEAKER_09
 I'm John Legend.
0
SPEAKER_09
Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
0
SPEAKER_01
 Yeah, was there ever a time though that you felt pressured that you might have to change your approach to win or was it always easy to stay to that?
0
SPEAKER_01
I love it by the way, I completely agree with you.
0
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I think my favorite way to win is to play nice and the best way to play nice is to make sure you win.
0
SPEAKER_01
So I love that approach to life.
0
SPEAKER_01
I'm just wondering whether there were any times where
0
SPEAKER_01
 you actually maybe just had a thought and you thought, well, maybe if I didn't play so nice, maybe I'd win more.
0
SPEAKER_01
Maybe I would be more successful if I did this or did this thing.
0
SPEAKER_01
Did you ever have that debate?
0
SPEAKER_01
Did you ever have that thought internally or were you always convinced that this was the way?
0
SPEAKER_05
Not for a second.
0
SPEAKER_05
I mean, it wouldn't feel right to win if I had cheated or done it in an unscrupulous way.
0
SPEAKER_05
 you know, and I talk about in the book, some of the early formative experiences where we had people that did things that weren't exactly correct, right, in one way or another.
0
SPEAKER_05
And it really surprised me, maybe I was naive, or I think people love
0
SPEAKER_05
 the clarity of knowing what we stand for, right?
0
SPEAKER_05
And knowing that we don't change the rules depending on who it is or how important it is or anything like that.
0
SPEAKER_05
It's like, hey, we're very clear about the ethical standards that we uphold as a company.
0
SPEAKER_05
And it's just a lot easier that way.
0
SPEAKER_01
 I love hearing that, trust me, I'm so happy to hear that because I think value-based businesses are so needed in the world right now.
0
SPEAKER_01
And when we look at things like conscious capitalism and the idea of creating wealth, creating impact through values and through purpose and through mission, it's beautiful to hear that you never even had a moment of doubt.
0
SPEAKER_01
I love hearing that because I think it shows what's possible.
0
SPEAKER_01
 I wonder, there's a lot of our listeners who may be trying to decide between entrepreneur or employee.
0
SPEAKER_01
And today, because the entrepreneurial life mindset has become so mainstream culture and accessible, a lot more people are thinking in that direction.
0
SPEAKER_01
I wonder, what can you do to teach us about the difference between the entrepreneur mindset and the employee mindset, and what differences people can see so that they can see where they're best placed?
0
SPEAKER_05
 When things get pretty heated, I think you see more opportuners and not necessarily the pure entrepreneurs.
0
SPEAKER_05
And that's okay.
0
SPEAKER_05
Everybody can choose their own path.
0
SPEAKER_05
In my experience, it's not for the faint of heart to go start a business.
0
SPEAKER_05
 all in and when I started, fortunately I was 19 years old and I could work 18 hours a day and sleep at the office and had no responsibilities in terms of family or anything like that.
0
SPEAKER_05
And I had the kind of physical stamina to work like a maniac for several years, which that's sort of what it took at the beginning.
0
SPEAKER_05
Fortunately, that didn't have to perpetuate.
0
SPEAKER_05
 But yeah, I mean, it's not all glamorous and success, and there are plenty of businesses that don't work out.
0
SPEAKER_05
And yeah, I mean, it's easy to look at the successful businesses and say, wow, it was just straight up, you know, to the right forever.
0
SPEAKER_05
It's like, not exactly, that's not exactly the way it goes really in any business.
0
SPEAKER_05
But yeah, I mean, it's a very personal decision in terms of what someone's risk appetite is.
0
SPEAKER_05
 And, you know, are they willing to take all that on?
0
SPEAKER_05
And, you know, when you put your head down at night, you're thinking about all those people that you're responsible for.
0
SPEAKER_01
I loved how in chapter three, you said, you know, you don't start a company if you're not an optimist.
0
SPEAKER_01
 There has to be that optimism and part of your optimism was the openness to compete with IBM and to challenge a long established company even when you were young.
0
SPEAKER_01
Where did that confidence come from?
0
SPEAKER_01
Where did that ambition, that desire come from that gave you so much confidence and strength in that sort of a mindset?
0
SPEAKER_05
 I guess if I was being objective, looking at it now, I'd say there was some naivete there for sure as well.
0
SPEAKER_05
But all that mixture was pretty powerful.
0
SPEAKER_05
And what I saw when I looked at the IBM PC back in 1981, when it first came out, it just had the 40th anniversary a month or two ago of the IBM PC.
0
SPEAKER_05
 was it was this thing they sold for like $3,000, but it had $500 worth of parts in it.
0
SPEAKER_05
 And none of the parts were made by IBM.
0
SPEAKER_05
So to my teenage mind, it kind of seemed like a criminal enterprise.
0
SPEAKER_05
It's like, why does it cost so much?
0
SPEAKER_05
And why does it take so long?
0
SPEAKER_05
And why can't it be faster?
0
SPEAKER_05
And had a ton of ideas.
0
SPEAKER_05
And it's hard for people to really understand right now.
0
SPEAKER_05
But back in the early 1980s,
0
SPEAKER_05
 IBM was not just the most successful computer company, they were unbelievably dominant
0
SPEAKER_05
 in this field, unlike any other company, except maybe like Standard Oil, you know, back in the day, they just dwarfed any other company in the IT slash data processing field.
0
SPEAKER_05
Obviously very different 30, 40 years later, but at the time they were the giant, and they were also like the most valuable company in America, right?
0
SPEAKER_05
So it was a big business, but hey, they seem vulnerable to me.
0
SPEAKER_01
 I love that example of what you said, looking at it and seeing a criminal enterprise because of the shocking difference between the parts and the pieces.
0
SPEAKER_01
And you're right.
0
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I grew up in a world where IBM was still very powerful.
0
SPEAKER_01
But I know what you mean.
0
SPEAKER_01
You're talking about the scale of it at the time.
0
SPEAKER_01
And you talk about in Chapter 7, the fight for Dell to go private.
0
SPEAKER_01
 And it's been like a long, disruptive process for everyone that's involved.
0
SPEAKER_01
And you mentioned in the book that in Dell, you had this saying of failure is not an option.
0
SPEAKER_01
I want to know what kept you going in that fight to make it private?
0
SPEAKER_01
What was the thing that kept you consistently fighting?
0
SPEAKER_01
Because sometimes we're fighting for fighting's sake, but in this situation, that wasn't it.
0
SPEAKER_01
You were fighting for something more important and more deep.
0
SPEAKER_01
Where did that come from?
0
SPEAKER_05
 Yeah, you know, I really felt that going private would allow us to accelerate our transformation and it would allow us to kind of reignite the entrepreneurial risk-taking spirit that was the origin of the company.
0
SPEAKER_05
 And, you know, I think Winston Churchill said something to the effect of, you know, if you're going through hell, you know, keep going.
0
SPEAKER_05
We were in the middle of it.
0
SPEAKER_05
It's not easy to like stop and say, we're just kidding.
0
SPEAKER_05
Never mind.
0
SPEAKER_05
Forget it.
0
SPEAKER_05
You know, I guess we could have done that.
0
SPEAKER_05
But once you get started,
0
SPEAKER_05
 It was a fight worth winning.
0
SPEAKER_05
I thought we could win.
0
SPEAKER_05
I thought it was truly believed that it was a very important thing for the company to do at that time to inflect the transformation.
0
SPEAKER_05
And we can look back seven years later and say, yeah, good thing we did that.
0
SPEAKER_01
 Everyone else can make the connections in hindsight, but you were able to make the connections in the process, and I think that's always what's harder.
0
SPEAKER_01
But another area of your life, apart from your professional success, of course, but you're one of the few people who have this rare
0
SPEAKER_01
 Personal success, too, with marrying your wife, your four children.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I wanted to understand, you probably get asked the work-life balance question a million times.
0
SPEAKER_01
I personally don't believe in balance.
0
SPEAKER_01
I think it's a myth.
0
SPEAKER_01
I'm not convinced that it's real.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I think that it actually causes more pressure than creates fuel in our lives when we're constantly trying to balance.
0
SPEAKER_01
I wanted to understand what was your journey
0
SPEAKER_01
 in creating a successful professional life, an extremely successful professional life, but also managing to have a real genuine personal life as well?
0
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, so first of all, I think when you're starting a business,
0
SPEAKER_05
 you know, this idea of balance, you know, just forget about it.
0
SPEAKER_05
It's like, you know, it's like you're, you're not going to have it.
0
SPEAKER_05
So, you know, if you're thinking, oh, I'm going to be an entrepreneur, I'm going to start a company and I'm a great work-life balance.
0
SPEAKER_05
It's not going to happen.
0
SPEAKER_05
If it is, it's a foreign thing to me.
0
SPEAKER_05
I don't, I'm
1
SPEAKER_02
 understand how you could do that.
1
SPEAKER_02
But, you know, once you have a business kind of up and running and you're into year 10, year 15, year 20, right, you've got systems and processes and people and well, what you find is there's a diminishing return to the number of hours worked.
1
SPEAKER_02
And also, you know, your happiness is impacted and you don't have to do everything yourself and you sort of,
1
SPEAKER_02
 always kind of are reassessing what is the point of impact where I can make a meaningful impact on the company and cause something great to happen.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I'm not going to do that in my 90th hour or 100th hour of work in a week.
1
SPEAKER_02
There's a sweet spot there.
1
SPEAKER_02
And so
1
SPEAKER_02
 Yeah, I also consciously wanted to have a family and children and a family life and that kind of grounding that I had as a child.
1
SPEAKER_02
And that was something I really desired.
1
SPEAKER_02
And so I sought it out and planned my life in that way.
1
SPEAKER_02
 Because I also knew that if I kept working for another 10 plus years and didn't have that, I would be unhappy.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, but I'm sure that there were those tough decisions to make.
1
SPEAKER_04
I'm sure there were moments where
1
SPEAKER_04
 Maybe your wife and your children wanted your time, but you had to be at an important meeting, or you had to be on a plane.
1
SPEAKER_04
How did you deal with those challenges?
1
SPEAKER_04
Because they're very natural.
1
SPEAKER_04
It doesn't make you a bad person, but I'm sure there were moments where you felt guilty or you couldn't be somewhere with your family that you really wanted to be with.
1
SPEAKER_04
How did you deal with that and get through that successfully when so many other people struggle with those moments?
1
SPEAKER_02
 First of all, you know, you have to have some boundaries and and set some boundaries and I'll say I was pretty good about having boundaries didn't really do a lot of work on the weekend.
1
SPEAKER_02
 So that was pretty sacred time.
1
SPEAKER_04
When in the journey did that happen?
1
SPEAKER_04
Or was that from the beginning you never worked weekends?
1
SPEAKER_02
I'd say when we started having little kids.
1
SPEAKER_02
I also kind of set up our house where we had a place where people could come over for dinner.
1
SPEAKER_02
And so I would often have a lot of dinner still do at the house.
1
SPEAKER_02
 and that way it just saved time.
1
SPEAKER_02
Sometimes my kids would, you know, this is kind of a funny story, my son, he figured out when he was about five or six that, you know, if he came to one of the dinners toward the end, he could get a dessert, right?
1
SPEAKER_02
But then after a while, he's like, hey, that's Bill Gates.
1
SPEAKER_02
You know, maybe I'll learn something, you know?
1
SPEAKER_02
So he would like come and sit down
1
SPEAKER_02
 participated in the dinners, it helped a lot to do that at home.
1
SPEAKER_02
And yeah, you got to have some boundaries.
1
SPEAKER_02
You can't make it perfect all the time, you know, and there are going to be times when we haven't been doing this lately, obviously, but you know, when I would go to Europe or Asia on business trips, you're just going all out, like for, for a long time, from early morning to late at night.
1
SPEAKER_02
 And that's okay.
1
SPEAKER_02
You know, you can sprint for a while and do that.
1
SPEAKER_02
But also, yeah, I made time to relax and play and exercise and think and not be overly scheduled too.
1
SPEAKER_04
I think the dinners is a genius one.
1
SPEAKER_04
I love that, that opening up your home and having those work dinners or people over for dinner so that you're actually at home, you're with your family.
1
SPEAKER_04
 It's still part of family time.
1
SPEAKER_04
I think that's genius.
1
SPEAKER_04
And it makes so much sense as to why that's beneficial for the family, for work, for so many other things.
1
SPEAKER_04
So I love you sharing that tip.
1
SPEAKER_02
You can make story time with the kids and still have a dinner with your business colleagues, you know.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, it's brilliant.
1
SPEAKER_04
That's a brilliant one.
1
SPEAKER_00
 A new season of Bridgerton is here.
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And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
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I'm your host, Gabrielle Collins.
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And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
1
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Colin Bridgerton has returned from his travels abroad.
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Is Betrothal written in the stars for the eligible bachelor?
1
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 Meanwhile, the ton is reverberating with speculation of who holds Lady Whistledown's pen.
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We're discussing it all.
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I sit down with Nicola Coughlin, Luke Newton, Shonda Rhimes, and more to offer an exclusive peek behind the scenes of each episode of the new season.
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Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
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 Fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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1
SPEAKER_01
 Hey everyone, this is Molly and Matt and we're the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart Podcasts.
1
SPEAKER_03
It's a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting.
1
SPEAKER_01
 like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone, and so much more.
1
SPEAKER_03
We're back with season two of the podcast, which means more opportunities to glow up and become a more responsible and better adult, one life lesson at a time.
1
SPEAKER_01
And let me just tell you, this show is just as much for us as it is for you.
1
SPEAKER_01
So let's figure this stuff out together.
1
SPEAKER_01
This season, we're going to talk about whether or not we're financially and emotionally ready for dog ownership.
1
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 We're gonna figure out the benefits of a high yield savings account.
1
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And what exactly are the duties of being a member of the wedding party?
1
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All that plus so much more.
1
SPEAKER_01
Let's learn about all of it and then some.
1
SPEAKER_01
Listen to Grown Up Stuff How to Adult on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1
SPEAKER_04
 You mentioned in the book that you always kept mementos in your office, like some personal, some about the highs and low points of the company.
1
SPEAKER_04
Can you tell us about some of these mementos?
1
SPEAKER_04
Because you collected stamps, obviously, so collecting is part of your DNA.
1
SPEAKER_04
I love collecting mementos as well.
1
SPEAKER_04
I want some inspiration.
1
SPEAKER_04
What were some of the things that you held on to?
1
SPEAKER_02
 Yeah, I kept things that were meaningful.
1
SPEAKER_02
In the book, I have a picture of the motherboard that J. Bell, our first engineer, hand-wired up.
1
SPEAKER_02
That's obviously a pretty treasured memento for me about the origins of our company and
1
SPEAKER_02
 tons of stories there.
1
SPEAKER_04
I love how one of the values of your company was to be known as a great company and a great place to work at.
1
SPEAKER_04
You know, the first few years of my entrepreneurial journey and trying to build a team, we have a team of, you know, just shy of 50 people across the world that are working on my certification school, my courses, my podcast, my videos, my books,
1
SPEAKER_04
 just the whole area of my work.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I love that you said you wanted your company, one of the values was to be known as a great company and a great place to work at.
1
SPEAKER_04
I wanted to know what were three key ingredients in ensuring you were doing that as a leader?
1
SPEAKER_02
First of all, you want to have an inspiring mission and you want to have people excited, not just engaged, but you want them to believe that what they do is really important and makes a difference in the world.
1
SPEAKER_02
 And you're basically engendering passion, which is way more powerful than just about anything else you can present as a motivational tool.
1
SPEAKER_02
I'd say the second thing is you want people to feel like they can succeed and grow and fulfill their full potential inside the organization.
1
SPEAKER_02
 And there's nothing holding them back.
1
SPEAKER_02
There's no limits for them and that you're caring about their success.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think a part of that is probably the third point is that you've created an environment that is inclusive and anybody can succeed.
1
SPEAKER_02
You're not looking for people that are all the same.
1
SPEAKER_02
You want to hear a diverse set of voices and you're stronger because of the
1
SPEAKER_02
 diverse set of voices and ideas coming together.
1
SPEAKER_02
And we're all focused on ultimately something that's bigger than ourselves.
1
SPEAKER_02
And again, we've got a really important reason to get up out of bed every morning.
1
SPEAKER_02
What we do matters in the world.
1
SPEAKER_04
 Yeah, absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_04
I love that.
1
SPEAKER_04
Thank you so much.
1
SPEAKER_04
That's going to be really, really useful to me as we continue to grow.
1
SPEAKER_04
So, Michael, I want to thank you for just being so generous with your time and giving us such great insights.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I'm so excited for my audience to read, play nice, but win.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I want to end, as we always do on On Purpose, with our final five.
1
SPEAKER_04
These are our fast five questions.
1
SPEAKER_04
You have to answer them in one word to one sentence maximum.
1
SPEAKER_04
That's it.
1
SPEAKER_04
 So, Michael, these are your fast five.
1
SPEAKER_04
The first question is, what is the best piece of advice you've ever received?
1
SPEAKER_04
If you find a problem, fix it as fast as you find it.
1
SPEAKER_04
I love that.
1
SPEAKER_04
OK, second question.
1
SPEAKER_04
What is the worst advice you've ever received?
1
SPEAKER_02
Nobody ever says, boy, I'm glad you waited to make that tough decision.
1
SPEAKER_02
Right.
1
SPEAKER_02
And so it's important to lean into difficult conversations and difficult decisions
1
SPEAKER_02
 And, you know, anybody that tells you otherwise is just creating more problems.
1
SPEAKER_04
Got it.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_04
Question number three.
1
SPEAKER_04
What's the first thing you do in the morning when you wake up and the last thing you do at night before you go to bed?
1
SPEAKER_02
I spend some time every morning thinking about what do I want to accomplish during the day?
1
SPEAKER_02
What's really important for me to get done today and be proud of at the end of the day.
1
SPEAKER_02
 And then as I'm going to sleep, I'm really trying to wind down and relax and, you know, calm myself.
1
SPEAKER_02
And sleep is super important.
1
SPEAKER_02
I try to go to sleep early, get up early, want to get a great night's sleep, want to get a high score in my aura ring and my sleep eight pod and just try to relax, calm myself, think grateful thoughts and not be too wound up about all the stuff I have to do tomorrow.
1
SPEAKER_04
 Awesome.
1
SPEAKER_04
Question number four, what is your current purpose today?
1
SPEAKER_02
Our purpose as a company is still enabling human potential with technology.
1
SPEAKER_02
And, you know, I think that's a super powerful mission that will continue for a long, long time that that's enduring and we're continuing to be excited by it.
1
SPEAKER_04
 Fantastic.
1
SPEAKER_04
And fifth and final question, Michael, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
1
SPEAKER_02
Be grateful for what you have and take responsibility for your own life.
1
SPEAKER_02
 Self-determination.
1
SPEAKER_02
Don't blame it on other people.
1
SPEAKER_02
It's all on you.
1
SPEAKER_02
You've got to go make it happen.
1
SPEAKER_02
And it's nobody else's fault.
1
SPEAKER_02
I love it.
1
SPEAKER_04
Michael Dell, everyone.
1
SPEAKER_04
And the new book is out.
1
SPEAKER_04
It's called Play Nice, But Win.
1
SPEAKER_04
A CEO's Journey from Founder to Leader.
1
SPEAKER_04
 Michael, I want to thank you again for your energy.
1
SPEAKER_04
I hope that everyone who's been listening or watching that you're going to share your greatest insights on Instagram, on Twitter.
1
SPEAKER_04
Make sure you tag me and Michael and let us know what resonated with you.
1
SPEAKER_04
And again, go and grab a copy of the book.
1
SPEAKER_04
Michael, thank you for this time.
1
SPEAKER_04
I look forward to meeting you in person one day soon.
1
SPEAKER_04
All the best with everything you're working on.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I'm so happy that we got to spend this time together.
1
SPEAKER_04
 Thank you so much, Jay.
1
SPEAKER_04
Great to be with you.
1
SPEAKER_04
If you want even more videos just like this one, make sure you subscribe and click on the boxes over here.
1
SPEAKER_04
I'm also excited to let you know that you can now get my book Think Like a Monk from thinklikeamonkbook.com.
1
SPEAKER_04
Check below in the description to make sure you order today.
1
SPEAKER_00
 A new season of Bridgerton is here.
1
SPEAKER_00
And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm your host, Gabby Collins.
1
SPEAKER_00
And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
1
SPEAKER_00
Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
1
SPEAKER_00
Then fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1
SPEAKER_00
Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday.
1
SPEAKER_01
 Hey everyone, this is Molly and Matt, and we're the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart Podcasts.
1
SPEAKER_03
It's a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone, and so much more.
1
SPEAKER_03
Let's learn about all of it and then some.
1
SPEAKER_03
Listen to Grown Up Stuff How to Adult on America's number one podcast network, iHeart.
1
SPEAKER_03
Open your free iHeart app and search Grown Up Stuff.
1
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 At one of the most famous restaurants in the world, there's a table in the corner where the most incredible conversations on the planet are happening every week with owner Ruthie Rogers and amazing guests like Martha Stewart, Jimmy Fallon, and Paul McCartney.
1
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 We've saved you a seat.
1
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Ruthie's Table 4.
1
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Listen to Ruthie's Table 4 on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.