0
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We have updates.
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We have a lot.
0
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I mean, I feel like you have a lot to share.
0
SPEAKER_02
Well, I have stuff to share, but also you have an update because last weekend I got to come see a screening of your movie.
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You have been working on a documentary.
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Yes.
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For a while, and I guess you should describe it.
0
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Yeah, so I was working on it when we were freezing our eggs together, and it was at the apex of the difficulty.
0
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Chaos.
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Yeah, the chaos and the dark night of the soul, right?
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Part of the film where I, yeah, I get, I get, I get S-U-E-D.
0
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Can we say it?
0
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S-U-E-D.
0
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What s that?
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Oh, oh, oh, oh.
0
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It s early.
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SPEAKER_01
It s early.
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Can we have like a- No, I don t want to change the time.
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It s just like, I feel sometimes that I m like, I m still- Waking up.
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Waking up.
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Okay.
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I have this problem too, obviously.
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And I m like half dead for the first- I feel like-
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Six minutes.
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Me too, me too.
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But then, I do like being done at the time we re done.
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It s true, it s true.
0
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This is like, this is a tale as old as time.
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It is.
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I just hope people know the vibe is like morning after a slumber party.
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It s not like afternoon cozy vibes.
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That s good.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s more like morning after, what are we talking about?
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That s my how I can get into it because for some reason I feel like this podcast is like cozying up afternoon like You know sweatpants and I m like, oh no, this is like a morning.
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It s a morning show.
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It s a morning morning After morning after oh, I love that morning after morning after show we can still be in sweat.
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We both we both are
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I ll be close today.
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So synced, obviously.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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Your movie.
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So yeah, my movie.
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Yeah.
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So it starts with our egg freezing and sort of this question of, you know, should I genetically test embryos?
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And would I be a good parent to a child with a disability?
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And sort of what does it take in 2023 in the world that we live in?
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And I go on this little adventure to find out and there s a lot of twists and turns and surprising- And S-U-E-I-N-G.
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And S-U-E-I-N-G.
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And thank you for coming.
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It was so sweet.
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Everyone was so happy to meet you.
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And they were like, she s so cute.
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Like, she s so beautiful.
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And she s so little.
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And I was like, I know.
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I did feel little that day.
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I think my sweatshirt or something, I don t know.
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But I was so happy to see it because I ve been hearing about this for so long and it s always a privilege to get to see something ahead of time.
0
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You re still working on it, like you re finishing it up.
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So that was really exciting.
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Did it feel like, you know, sometimes you meet your friend s baby that, okay, this is going to come out real wrong.
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And you think it s ugly?
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Well, not ugly.
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Well, that happens too.
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But there s this whole TikTok thing of like when you meet the baby that you told your friend to abort.
0
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And it s a joke, obviously.
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It s not like we re encouraging abortion left and right.
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But when we were freezing our ex together, I was in a really dark period.
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At one point, you know, I said, I think I need to stop making this.
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And you were like, I think you should.
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Like, you know, you re a wreck.
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And you re being obviously a really good friend.
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And a lot of people told me that.
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And so did it feel like you met the baby that you told me to abort?
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I didn t put two and two together like that, which is a great way of framing it.
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However, you did pause during the egg freezing because it was getting so overwhelming.
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It was such a, I think, smart idea for you to like, I can t, I have to like actually press pause on that thing.
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I can t be doing both of these things at once because they re both so taxing.
0
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Yeah.
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But one, you ve been involved in advocating for disability rights and just being sort of a
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mouthpiece for ableism and disability.
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I feel like mouthpiece is a bad word.
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Is that bad?
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Yeah.
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Oh.
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Is it mouthpiece like you re like a... Wait, am I wrong?
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What s it mean?
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That s bad.
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Oh my God, but I m probably wrong.
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I could definitely be wrong.
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I should have said advocate.
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I feel like mouthpiece is what you say like, you re a mouthpiece for the, you know... Oh, but is it that they took the word...
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Those people maybe took the word and I m taking it back.
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Okay, take it back.
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It sounds purely like you re a voice for.
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Got it.
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Okay.
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Reclaim it.
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I think that s more what it is.
0
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I ve heard it how you re saying as well.
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People will ruin words, don t let them.
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Okay, we re reclaiming mouthpiece.
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It s like dog whistle.
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Dog whistles bad.
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It s like when you often like with racism is sort of the most classic example.
0
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Instead of saying the overtly racist thing, you re saying something that s like a subtweet.
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That s like a, you know, well, you know, some people, you know, are really can t be trusted and are really lazy, right?
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You re sort of saying the racist thing without and then being able to be like, I didn t say Black people are lazy.
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I just said, you know.
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It s like a way to not be overt.
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So the dog whistle analogy is like you re calling out silently to your people.
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Kind of, or using like a stereotype again, like referencing something in our culture that everyone knows what that means and what that implicates.
0
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Without saying it straight up or whatever.
0
SPEAKER_02
Oh, and you re saying they took the word dog whistle, which is an actual thing.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, dog whistles are fine.
0
SPEAKER_02
Oh, dog whistles are from the dog whistlers?
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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Well, like someone who wants a whistle for a dog.
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The actual tangible.
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Okay.
0
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Isn t also it a thing?
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It s like a, it s like an actual thing.
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Yeah, there s a whistle for a dog.
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Yeah, for them to come running.
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Come running.
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But it s being used for this other thing.
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Yeah, I wonder how dogs feel about it.
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I hate it for them.
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It sucks.
0
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Okay, so you have been really wonderfully advocating for a long time, and you re so knowledgeable on all things ableism.
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This movie is about that.
0
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Yeah.
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And it s really
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really good.
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It s really good.
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I was so proud of you.
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I wouldn t have done it if I knew how hard it was.
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Yeah.
0
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It s like the blessing of not knowing.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
0
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Greta Gerwig talked about this with Barbie where she was like, I wish the credits were like filmed by and then like all of the people because it s just such an impossibly difficult task.
0
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I mean, just the amount of people who supported the project and supported me, like just the emotional support of a filmmaker and just being nice to them and giving them hugs.
0
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is really appreciated.
0
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So yeah, thanks for coming.
0
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It was so fun.
0
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It was so fun.
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And you did the thing that s scary to do, which is after you ask everyone for feedback.
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Yes, I did.
0
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And you know, I hate audience participation.
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You do.
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SPEAKER_01
Oh, I hate it.
0
SPEAKER_01
I hate it.
0
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Why do you hate it?
0
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I, I don t know.
0
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I just like even at an intimate dinner, I just went, I hate participating in conversation.
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No, no, no.
0
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Like I went to a dinner recently.
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It was a very intimate, small group, maybe 10 people.
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I mean, some people knew each other, but not everyone knew each other.
0
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And so there was this, why don t we go around and say our name and just quickly what we do.
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And it was very benign.
0
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It was not a big ask.
0
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But of course, I hate it.
0
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I hate it.
0
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As soon as that was instructed, I just sunk down.
0
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I don t like people looking at me.
0
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And this is now a new through line.
0
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We were talking about it on Armchair yesterday too.
0
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I think I m also, cause I ve been watching so much couple therapy, Penn.
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Oh my God.
0
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I can t wait.
0
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Penn.
0
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I m so into it.
0
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Thank you for your Hulu password.
0
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Of course.
0
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I ve been thinking so much about my old stuff and I used to be really shy and that is seemingly completely gone.
0
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But then there are moments
0
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like audience participation, where it flares up.
0
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And so yeah, you asked all of us for feedback and people were giving it and I thought they were great.
0
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No, you hated it.
0
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Okay, you felt bad for who?
0
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You.
0
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Me.
0
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For some of the feedback.
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I was like, because in feedback situations, I do feel that many people want to just talk, to hear themselves talk, and to then feel like, I contributed.
0
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I m smart.
0
SPEAKER_01
Right.
0
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I ve been in that situation too, where even in class, I remember sometimes like, yeah, I had a question, but I also want to say something.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
0
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I think I have something really smart that s important.
0
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I want to ask a question or contribute something so that everyone else can hear how smart I am.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s an L.A.
0
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screening type as well.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that s what this was.
0
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Like any Q&A in L.A.
0
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for a screening, that s the type of people that are usually asking a question.
0
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LA specific, and especially if you re at any sort of screening or anything, because people, I believe many of them think it s an opportunity because what if somebody else is kind of, what if somebody else is in there who s like, that person is so smart, I m going to hire them or like something.
0
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Oh my God, off of your question at a screening.
0
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Wow.
0
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Yeah.
0
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Sometimes people do note cards, and then it s like, maybe I ll say something so profound, and they ll be like, I need to hire them as my assistant director or something.
0
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LA s hard.
0
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It s a hard place to be.
0
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I m so oblivious to that.
0
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Well, not oblivious, but I moderate panels, and I love panels.
0
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I m like, I love a good panel, and I hate a bad one.
0
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And one of the things that drives me crazy is when I ll be in the audience and that the moderator isn t reining people in.
0
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If someone s just there to, like, talk and use someone else s panel as a soapbox for themselves, I get so irate.
0
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I almost just want to grab the mic away from them.
0
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So I relate to that.
0
SPEAKER_01
But there s so many pins in what you said.
0
SPEAKER_01
Okay, so you used to be shy.
0
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I also am shy.
0
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And it comes out in all these weird— Dude, like—
0
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Same thing as like a small dinner or something that if we have to go around the room, my Tulsa program, like, I can t share.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like, I get so nervous and shy and I don t want to be perceived.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
0
SPEAKER_01
I don t want to be perceived.
0
SPEAKER_01
I don t want anyone to see me.
0
SPEAKER_01
I don t want anyone to know me.
0
SPEAKER_01
You brought it up recently at the end when people are holding hands sometimes you leave.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yes, I leave.
0
SPEAKER_02
It s like, is it that we re shy?
0
SPEAKER_02
The hand-holding feels not about shyness.
0
SPEAKER_02
It s about intimacy.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yes, which I totally understand.
0
SPEAKER_02
I probably would do the same thing and feel the same way.
0
SPEAKER_02
When did you get not shy?
0
SPEAKER_02
It was a slow burn.
0
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Probably over high school is when I really started to shed that because I was doing theater and I was cheerleading and stuff.
0
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But it s weird because those things are so external.
0
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But the feeling of shyness is more just in your everyday life.
0
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It s not when you re performing.
0
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Performing is a different mode.
0
SPEAKER_02
And both of those have performance, cheerleading and obviously acting.
0
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So
0
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Sometimes I m like maybe I m still just really shy.
0
SPEAKER_02
Oh, I don t think so cuz even like Easter egg pin I don t feel shy on date.
0
SPEAKER_02
You don t What do you of course?
0
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I mean for especially the beginning you feel shy.
0
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I feel is shy the term Yeah, like I mean look it s really nice when you do go on a date with someone.
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh
0
SPEAKER_01
There s a bug.
0
SPEAKER_01
I feel like it came.
0
SPEAKER_01
There s bugs everywhere.
0
SPEAKER_01
There s a lot of bugs.
0
SPEAKER_01
I had a bug event.
0
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Pin.
0
SPEAKER_01
Wait, Rob, can you write down the pin?
0
SPEAKER_01
Bug event.
0
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I also want to talk about silent dinners because I feel like I wanted to put a pin in that, but I was putting a pin in somebody else, but I feel like we should have a silent dinner.
0
SPEAKER_01
What?
0
SPEAKER_01
I think that so much gets lost when we talk.
0
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And that, I know, this sounds so... One of the people at the screening, his name is Josh Rocks, and he does this group meditation thing where you re just with people and you basically meditate in group.
0
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And it sounds weird the way I m saying it.
0
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It s called Kindred.
0
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And it s like,
0
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It s almost like you re like a cross between like a meditation group and like kindergarten.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like you re just kind of playing with each other and you re looking into each other s eyes.
0
SPEAKER_01
And there s moments where you re just literally told to look into the person s eyes for like a minute.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I start crying every time.
0
SPEAKER_01
Almost everybody does.
0
SPEAKER_01
I bet if we were to do this now, I would definitely start crying.
0
SPEAKER_01
What?
0
SPEAKER_01
I don t want to do it.
0
SPEAKER_01
Then we don t have to do it.
0
SPEAKER_01
But all the defenses come off, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
You re not— And at the beginning, you want to just look away.
0
SPEAKER_01
But like, the fact that you have to actually look into— Because we also don t look into each other s eyes.
0
SPEAKER_01
I mean, we do because we re doing a show, and so we— You know, but even if we re hanging out, it would be weird, actually, if you just maintain eye contact, like, intently.
0
SPEAKER_01
So anyway, silent dinners, but back to the shy thing.
0
SPEAKER_01
So you re not shy on dates, so you don t, do you feel nervous before a date?
0
SPEAKER_02
Yes, I do feel nervous, definitely.
0
SPEAKER_02
But when I m there, I sometimes feel, not the opposite of shy, but I sometimes feel like, am I gonna have to carry the conversation?
0
SPEAKER_01
That s sort of a fear I have.
0
SPEAKER_01
I think a lot of women might feel that way.
0
SPEAKER_01
I feel that for sure.
0
SPEAKER_02
Like a shy person wouldn t be able to do that.
0
SPEAKER_02
I don t think.
0
SPEAKER_02
Maybe it s not that I m shy.
0
SPEAKER_02
Maybe it s that I m afraid of fucking up or looking stupid.
0
SPEAKER_02
That s really probably what it is.
0
SPEAKER_02
And so when it s something like, go around and say your name and say what you do, I ll say something stupid?
0
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
0
SPEAKER_01
I think it s my favorite thing we do.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s such a cute little adult thing.
0
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Because a shy kid is like, oh, you re shy.
0
SPEAKER_01
But as an adult, it s so adorable.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s like you care.
0
SPEAKER_02
That s a good point because you talk about kids being shy all the time.
0
SPEAKER_02
This kid is shy, this kid is outgoing, but no one talks about shyness for adults, but those kids grow up into adults and still are probably keeping some level of shyness.
0
SPEAKER_02
Although as you go through life, you re forced to get rid of some, you re like put in situations where you have to get rid of some of that, I guess.
0
SPEAKER_02
Right.
0
SPEAKER_02
Anyway, wait, how we get on Shy and then a bug life?
0
SPEAKER_01
Silent dinners, bug events.
0
SPEAKER_01
Well, there s a lot of bugs.
0
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, I just, I was falling asleep.
0
SPEAKER_01
I was grumpy.
0
SPEAKER_01
There was a lot of like, I was feeling annoyed with a lot of things.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, okay, just go to bed.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I was just about to fall asleep.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I had definitely an object fly into my vicinity and into my ear and like,
0
SPEAKER_01
I just was like, how do I, it s in my room and it s big.
0
SPEAKER_01
It wasn t just a little, like, I think it was one of those black butterflies.
0
SPEAKER_01
Moth, like a moth.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like a real.
0
SPEAKER_02
That s a really sweet way of putting moth.
0
SPEAKER_02
It s a black butterfly.
0
SPEAKER_02
That it s a black butterfly.
0
SPEAKER_02
But like it had floppy.
0
SPEAKER_02
Ew.
0
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And wings.
0
SPEAKER_02
Wait, moths are, you gotta be careful.
0
SPEAKER_02
Oh God.
0
SPEAKER_02
Because they ll eat all your clothes.
0
SPEAKER_02
Right.
0
SPEAKER_02
So make sure you buy some moth traps.
0
SPEAKER_02
Traps?
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I have some.
0
SPEAKER_02
They re these like sticky traps that you hang and they attract the moths.
0
SPEAKER_02
Have you noticed any holes in your clothes?
0
SPEAKER_01
I mean, this happened only 72 hours ago.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s a recent event.
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh, God.
0
SPEAKER_01
We ll see.
0
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I did open my window for a minute.
0
SPEAKER_02
Oh, you opened your window.
0
SPEAKER_02
But just for a little bit.
0
SPEAKER_02
So what if it was a bird?
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh God, that s what I thought.
0
SPEAKER_01
Because again, when you re just falling asleep, I have a friend who was just falling asleep and was living in Brooklyn and a cat.
0
SPEAKER_01
No.
0
SPEAKER_01
A black cat went on her and it was in her apartment.
0
SPEAKER_01
And then, you know, there s all kinds of stories.
0
SPEAKER_01
We all have a friend who had a cockroach, you know, in bed with them.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like there s, you know, and then everything crosses.
0
SPEAKER_01
So I hid under my covers like a child, and then I got hot, and then I was like, I can t sleep now.
0
SPEAKER_01
I know, I got really annoyed.
0
SPEAKER_01
And then the next day I was like, why did I feel so crazy?
0
SPEAKER_01
Because do you ever just get in your head and everything is a danger, and everything s a threat, and then you just put on Taylor Swift for a few minutes and you re like, oh my god, everything s fine.
0
SPEAKER_01
Or you ll just go out for a walk and you re like, it s all cool.
0
SPEAKER_01
But I was stewing in my own fear.
0
SPEAKER_01
But okay, so you re shy, you re not shy on dates.
0
SPEAKER_01
You ve been on a few dates.
0
SPEAKER_02
Okay, yeah, I do want to do an update.
0
SPEAKER_02
It s really important that I do this update because I edited our episode from last week, right?
0
SPEAKER_02
And it was such an interesting time for us to have recorded because it was after my first date and before my second date.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I had such a bad attitude going into the second date.
0
SPEAKER_02
You were unsure.
0
SPEAKER_02
I was unsure and I was like, I don t, I still think this feels a bit unsettling to, to be like kind of talking to two people.
0
SPEAKER_02
It s just unnatural for me.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_02
So yeah, I had a bad attitude.
0
SPEAKER_02
I also had to wear my hair in a ponytail again.
0
SPEAKER_02
You look so pretty in a ponytail.
0
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s insane, but I understand if it s not your preferred fit.
0
SPEAKER_02
It s not my preferred.
0
SPEAKER_02
I can t hide behind my hair if I have a pony in.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I wore essentially the same outfit, just a different shirt.
0
SPEAKER_02
And it was kind of like a cool experiment.
0
SPEAKER_02
It s like I look the same and the location was close.
0
SPEAKER_02
They were close to each other-ish.
0
SPEAKER_02
I get there.
0
SPEAKER_02
It s super cute.
0
SPEAKER_02
Of course I park and I m like, where am I?
0
SPEAKER_02
I don t even know where this is.
0
SPEAKER_02
New location?
0
SPEAKER_00
It was new location.
0
SPEAKER_02
Went up there.
0
SPEAKER_02
It was adorable.
0
SPEAKER_02
And
0
SPEAKER_02
He was there before me.
0
SPEAKER_02
Okay, I ll move.
0
SPEAKER_02
And he was great.
0
SPEAKER_02
It was a wonderful surprise and taught me a lot about expectation and just like, it s fine.
0
SPEAKER_02
It s all good.
0
SPEAKER_02
They re both great.
0
SPEAKER_02
and very different.
0
SPEAKER_01
I like that.
0
SPEAKER_02
And this is, we ve all seen this movie, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s the best.
0
SPEAKER_01
So many contestants.
0
SPEAKER_02
No, we re not calling them that.
0
SPEAKER_02
We are not calling them that.
0
SPEAKER_02
But they re both wonderful.
0
SPEAKER_02
And that s just, for me, that s just hopeful.
0
SPEAKER_02
It s like, there are really, there are wonderful people.
0
SPEAKER_02
Look, I ve been on one date with both of these people.
0
SPEAKER_02
So maybe they aren t wonderful.
0
SPEAKER_02
Maybe they re horrible.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I just don t know yet.
0
SPEAKER_01
Well, they re probably just people just like you.
0
SPEAKER_01
Of course.
0
SPEAKER_01
There s no such thing, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
Everyone s wonderful and horrible.
0
SPEAKER_01
That s why when the first date s bad, don t go.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s like, it s only going to... We re only going to learn more about this person.
0
SPEAKER_02
I think that s right.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
So that s great that you had a good first date.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_02
And it was really easy.
0
SPEAKER_02
And we talked about some really fun, funny little stuff, which was cute.
0
SPEAKER_02
And also my main takeaway, which is why I want to actually talk about this, because I think this is the only thing worth really imparting is... I don t agree already, but okay.
0
SPEAKER_02
Other than my gossipy life.
1
SPEAKER_00
When I left that date, I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it, and I thought, huh, what did I enjoy about that?
1
SPEAKER_00
Because I really enjoyed the first one too, which we discussed, but this one felt very different, both good, so I was like, what s happening?
1
SPEAKER_00
And then I recognized that on this second one, and on the first one too, but again, different, I really liked
1
SPEAKER_00
who I was on that date.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, I enjoyed the version of myself that was coming out on that date.
1
SPEAKER_00
And perhaps it was because I had a sort of low expectation that I was probably coming in very me.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then it was just easy to be, like, playful and me.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I liked it.
1
SPEAKER_00
And there was space for that.
1
SPEAKER_00
He created space for that.
1
SPEAKER_00
So I think that s a really important thing for me to click in on on dates is do I like me on this date?
1
SPEAKER_00
Not does that person like me or do I like him?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Even necessarily.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s do I like me in this environment?
1
SPEAKER_00
I was happy to have that realization because it sounds kind of woo-woo.
1
SPEAKER_00
If you had told me, I hope you just can like see if you like you on the date, I d be like, okay, like, I ll, sure.
1
SPEAKER_00
So it was good I stumbled upon that so that now I actually know what it feels like to recognize that.
1
SPEAKER_01
First of all, I think that s wonderful and it s funny because I thought about it afterwards because obviously, I wish I could have been there, like with a little newspaper.
1
SPEAKER_01
I wish.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I loved how you explained it to me and I loved imagining what he did and like how he— So like, how did he make space for you to be the best version of who you are?
1
SPEAKER_01
Or fully yourself, I guess.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s not even the best version, it s just fully you.
1
SPEAKER_00
Synced is supported by Skims.
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SPEAKER_00
It s the holidays.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s such a good gift.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was just talking about this with a friend.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, we do this white elephant party, and a couple years ago, one of my friends brought the Skims robe.
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SPEAKER_00
It s unbelievable.
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SPEAKER_00
It s just like fluffy loungewear.
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SPEAKER_00
It s so soft.
1
SPEAKER_00
And she brought it and it got stolen within like the first two rounds.
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SPEAKER_00
Of course.
1
SPEAKER_00
Of course.
1
SPEAKER_00
Such a good gift.
1
SPEAKER_01
They love getting like soft things for Christmas, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
Like for the holidays.
1
SPEAKER_01
Cozies.
1
SPEAKER_01
Giving something that s going to feel so good.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I ve already, you know, my sister doesn t listen to this podcast, so it s okay.
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SPEAKER_01
I m giving my family skins.
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Amazing.
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Because it s just, there s nothing like it.
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1
SPEAKER_00
I don t want it to sound like the first date was not me.
1
SPEAKER_00
It was, and it was also a version I liked, or I wouldn t want to probably continue, but it was a little different.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I guess on this second date, how did he make space?
1
SPEAKER_00
That s a good question.
1
SPEAKER_00
I guess he was definitely a good
1
SPEAKER_00
listener and good at keeping a conversation up.
1
SPEAKER_00
Both were, actually.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_00
Again, that s why I don t actually think it s about him.
1
SPEAKER_00
It was just something between us on that day that let me feel
1
SPEAKER_00
easy, which was nice.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
You could frame it one way, which is your expectations are low, but I feel like the best dates I ve had is when I ve shown up with my glasses on, like don t have a bra on, like I have a loose, whatever, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
That I m showing up in the way that I, not that I m on, you know, I m showing up schlubby, but I m showing up in the way that I probably would show up with like a friend.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
Instead of like, I m
1
SPEAKER_01
positioning myself to be desirable or trying to conjure this romantic energy between us.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I ve had friends say that to me.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, it was my whatever state on hinge, and I just decided, I, you know, showed up in the afternoon.
1
SPEAKER_01
We didn t even do anything fancy.
1
SPEAKER_01
And, you know, you end up marrying that person.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s that you re showing up, you know, just as who you are.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s no surprise that best friends fall in love and get married because that s what s happening.
1
SPEAKER_00
You re just already you.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you love that person.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you love you as yourself.
1
SPEAKER_00
When you re that person.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
With that person, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
So it was pretty enlightening.
1
SPEAKER_00
I am going on another date with the first person and hopefully with the second person.
1
SPEAKER_00
They re out of town currently.
1
SPEAKER_00
They re both out of town.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s a sink.
1
SPEAKER_00
They are fairly synced, which is really funny and sim.
1
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
1
SPEAKER_01
And you also, when we were talking about this, you were like, I wouldn t mind if I was dating someone who was dating more than one person.
1
SPEAKER_01
I wouldn t.
1
SPEAKER_00
You wouldn t?
1
SPEAKER_01
And that to me was— Oh yeah, you found that shocking.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, unless I don t like them.
1
SPEAKER_01
If I like them and I know they re going on other dates— You don t like it.
1
SPEAKER_00
I would be so sad.
1
SPEAKER_00
Maybe if we re like eight dates in.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I might feel that but first like three or four dates I hope they are going on multiple dates with multiple people and Gosh So many contradictions in my brain because I do have very low confidence in so many ways but I also
1
SPEAKER_00
Maybe it s just because I see all these different couples in my life.
1
SPEAKER_00
And everyone s great.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like everyone is a catch.
1
SPEAKER_00
All of my friends are fucking tens.
1
SPEAKER_00
Across the board, personality, everything.
1
SPEAKER_00
And if I think about mixing up some of the pairs, it doesn t work.
1
SPEAKER_00
What do you mean mixing up the pairs?
1
SPEAKER_00
Like if I put this person with this person instead, that wouldn t be a good match.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it has nothing to do with how great they are.
1
SPEAKER_00
Compatibility is specific.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s not universal.
1
SPEAKER_00
You can be perfect, which by the way, no, you can t because no one can.
1
SPEAKER_00
But let s hypothetically say someone s perfect objectively, compatibility is going to be different between so many different people.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s just life.
1
SPEAKER_00
And that s also cool.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like I m starting to like that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Even in all the different relationships in my life, just like, oh, these compatibilities are different.
1
SPEAKER_00
Anthropologically, I guess.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t have an anthropology degree.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m like sex.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s fascinating.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like I m starting to get really interested in like this space between two people that happens.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s like this mat.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s like a potion.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s Hogwarts.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like a vapor that happens between two people.
1
SPEAKER_00
Chemistry.
1
SPEAKER_00
I guess that s why they call it chemistry.
1
SPEAKER_01
What you re saying is so deep.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like I think it s so helpful because when I like someone, I just think they don t like me back, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
Like that s my go-to story.
1
SPEAKER_01
And you re right.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s like, no, it s… They might think you re perfect.
1
SPEAKER_01
And again, but even think… The example about your friends is so on point.
1
SPEAKER_01
Because yeah, you re not ranking your friends.
1
SPEAKER_01
All of them, you re like, oh my God, like, you re amazing for all these different reasons.
1
SPEAKER_01
And you re right that if we swapped the couple, like, then it would be a disaster.
1
SPEAKER_01
And that s not because… Nothing has changed about that.
1
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s just who you re with.
1
SPEAKER_01
And trying to make a relationship work with someone who s not…
1
SPEAKER_01
compatible, I think what makes you stay in that relationship longer is thinking that you aren t perfect, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, you re getting rejected.
1
SPEAKER_01
You don t want to be rejected.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
Or that you need to change something and then it will be.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it s like, no, sometimes it s just not.
1
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes it s not.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you can love the person or like think they re on the page is so perfect and that the vapor in between just isn t exactly what you want.
1
SPEAKER_00
Or they have the smell.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, that s the smell is… The vapor has a smell.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
The smell is a chemical sort of manifestation of the emotional stuff too, which is like, oh, it just doesn t work.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
So fascinating.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, speaking of couples, should we talk about… Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay, so you binged.
1
SPEAKER_00
I binged Couples Therapy.
1
SPEAKER_00
Part of the reason I m so tired today is I did it again last night, but two nights ago- Monica, you watched the whole season?
1
SPEAKER_00
No, not, I did half, I did half.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay, okay.
1
SPEAKER_00
Two nights ago, I started Couples Therapy.
1
SPEAKER_00
We had Jedediah Jenkins on armchair.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s probably tomorrow.
1
SPEAKER_00
And he recommended Couples Therapy, this show on Showtime slash, you can watch it on Hulu, but it s on Showtime.
1
SPEAKER_00
that I guess everyone knows about.
1
SPEAKER_00
I guess everyone on TikTok knows about.
1
SPEAKER_00
I ve seen clips on TikTok.
1
SPEAKER_00
Dax and I both had not heard of it.
1
SPEAKER_00
So they started it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Kristen and Dax started it.
1
SPEAKER_00
And they re like, it s really, really good.
1
SPEAKER_00
So I started it a couple nights ago and I started it at 8 p.m.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I watched the whole first season.
1
SPEAKER_00
I have no idea.
1
SPEAKER_00
I could do math, but I don t want to about what time it was when I finally went to sleep.
1
SPEAKER_00
I could not stop.
1
SPEAKER_00
I found it so voyeuristic.
1
SPEAKER_00
I kept having to get up and then walk to the bathroom and pee to move my body because I was stressed.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was feeling very tense, but in a way that I needed more.
1
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
1
SPEAKER_01
You were completely—because I watched an episode and I was like absorbed.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s very—like you feel immersed and it s very intimate.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s so intimate.
1
SPEAKER_01
And you feel like you re in there.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you feel like you re not supposed to be in there, but you are.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes, that s why.
1
SPEAKER_00
Kudos to the couples.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
who are being, I think, I take it at face value, very real.
1
SPEAKER_00
Some things they say to each other, you re like, what?
1
SPEAKER_00
And in kind ways too, and they re also learning about themselves.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, this is, so it s also like, it s a doc series and it s kind of like Esther Perel s mating in captivity, but it s filmed and it s not her.
1
SPEAKER_00
But a couple s therapist is just giving couple s therapy and you, but it s, you have about like three or four couples throughout the season that you keep revisiting.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you see how they re progressing.
1
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
1
SPEAKER_00
And what is also so interesting is there are people who at first you
1
SPEAKER_00
Hate.
1
SPEAKER_00
Ew.
1
SPEAKER_00
Why is anyone in a relationship with this person?
1
SPEAKER_01
Am I going to start liking the guy that s like a complete narcissist?
1
SPEAKER_01
You might.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh god.
1
SPEAKER_00
I knew it.
1
SPEAKER_01
I hated him.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I was like, why?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, like this person is not okay.
1
SPEAKER_01
He s just contrarian.
1
SPEAKER_01
I can t stand contrarians.
1
SPEAKER_01
He disagrees with everything anyone says.
1
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_01
We end up liking him.
1
SPEAKER_00
By the end, I was like, I get him.
1
SPEAKER_00
Whether I like him or not, I understood him.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you meet these couples and you think, oh my God, she s amazing.
1
SPEAKER_00
Why would she ever be in a relationship with him or vice versa?
1
SPEAKER_00
And you just start meeting all the pieces of everyone and you get it.
1
SPEAKER_00
It is just so hard to be a person on Earth.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s like shocking.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s scary.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s so hard.
1
SPEAKER_00
The fact that there are so many of us walking around is a miracle.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
It was crazy.
1
SPEAKER_00
What I loved about it is— How far did you get?
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, I only— Because I had this gala.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh my god, what gala?
1
SPEAKER_01
Best Buddies.
1
SPEAKER_01
What s Best Buddies?
1
SPEAKER_01
Best Buddies is like a friendship program.
1
SPEAKER_01
If anyone wants to get involved, there s chapters literally all over the world.
1
SPEAKER_01
So wherever— It s between people with disabilities and people without disabilities.
1
SPEAKER_01
And you just get a buddy and you hang out.
1
SPEAKER_01
They have a jobs program.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s an amazing organization.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s awesome.
1
SPEAKER_01
And if you re looking for volunteer opportunities, it s the best.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I watched an episode on the way there.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then on the way back, my Uber driver was very chatty.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I tried to... That ll happen.
1
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Also, okay, hard pivot.
1
SPEAKER_01
I feel like there s something going on with Ubers.
1
SPEAKER_01
The drivers don t get paid enough.
1
SPEAKER_01
Everything s mocked.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s why I just sit there and I take it.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I feel like now I get into an Uber,
1
SPEAKER_01
And the music is blaring.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m kind of just there, and you re just doing your thing, as opposed to like, we re in here together.
1
SPEAKER_01
And even the way that the company was first branded, it s like, get a personal driver, like for, you know, half the price or whatever.
1
SPEAKER_01
Or I don t know that s how exactly they did it, but almost like getting, you know, driven around, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
Again, not the driver s fault.
1
SPEAKER_01
They are like so underpaid for what they do.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I do feel like things are getting up.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I was trying to watch.
1
SPEAKER_01
Even on the first ride out, it was so loud, the music and the radio, and I just was like, oh my God, I m being so overstimulated.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I was trying to watch the thing, and at one point he kind of heard that I was, but even sometimes you ll be on a phone call or something, and you have to say like, can you, you just put it down?
1
SPEAKER_01
So anyway, this is- I know, do you put quiet preferred?
1
SPEAKER_01
I do.
1
SPEAKER_01
I know, so do I, and I have noticed that it s- I just think, again, I just think everyone s not doing well.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s just how I feel about everything, everywhere, all at once.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
I just want, I want everyone to, I want a timeout.
1
SPEAKER_01
I need, I feel like we all need a kindergarten teacher to be like, okay, everyone s, turn off the lights.
1
SPEAKER_01
Let s just all sit and like, take a beat.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s not a thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
Unfortunately, there s no teacher of life, but you are the teacher of your own life.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes, that s true.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you can, as hard as it is, touch base and say like, I have to do a timeout or turn off the lights.
1
SPEAKER_01
To your point, coming back to couples therapy, what struck me about watching that show and something I ve been reflecting on lately is like, I don t say anything.
1
SPEAKER_01
In so many of my relationships, I ve never done couples therapy, and I ve done a lot of personal work, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I ve been with people who ve also done personal work, but I ve never done the couples therapy thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, it just struck me that I m honest, but I have trouble like, when I m disappointed or someone does something, I ll find it almost like humiliating to have to tell them.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I realized that that s
1
SPEAKER_01
you know, being an adult means you have to say, you know, people can t always know what you want and know what you need.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think I ve cut a lot of relationships short because I ve been like, oh, no, this means that you and I ll create meaning out of their actions, which it s not that I m imagining things or that their actions aren t hurtful.
1
SPEAKER_01
But instead of sitting there and being like, okay, I was hurt and being like, very honest, I think I can
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, okay, I hop out.
1
SPEAKER_01
When that s the uber situation, I just need to say, can you put the music down instead of just being angry the whole ride.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then talking about it on a fucking podcast.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s true because I guess it s weighing, is it worth it?
1
SPEAKER_00
Like what is it cost versus cost benefit?
1
SPEAKER_00
Economy.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s a term.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s an economic term.
1
SPEAKER_00
But do you struggle with that?
1
SPEAKER_01
Can you tell people when you re hurt?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, but I ve done a lot of work on that and sometimes it s not worth it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like I always am evaluating, is this conversation worth having?
1
SPEAKER_00
And not like, because what will it cost me?
1
SPEAKER_00
What will I gain from having it?
1
SPEAKER_00
Is there actually anything to be gained?
1
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes the answer is no.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s just me feeling like, oh, I just really want to get this off my chest, or they really need to know this thing that is bothering me and that they did to me.
1
SPEAKER_00
And if I know that s not going to lead to anything, it s only going to cause more problems.
1
SPEAKER_00
And knowing the difference
1
SPEAKER_00
of when actually this might lead to some change that s good for us versus, you know, like knowing that difference is really hard.
1
SPEAKER_00
But what I try to do all the time now is really evaluate, is this worth me having a conversation over?
1
SPEAKER_00
My therapist said something really interesting.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was talking about something.
1
SPEAKER_00
This thing was bothering me like over time.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I said, do I need to have a conversation about it?
1
SPEAKER_00
She said, well,
1
SPEAKER_00
In doing that, if you have a conversation, you re actually increasing intimacy.
1
SPEAKER_00
And that s why the couple therapy is nice, because really what they re, they are there to increase intimacy, even though they seemingly hate each other.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like they do want to fix it, which is lovely, you know So she was saying like it actually increases intimacy Which is fine if that s what you want, but if your actual goal is to really build boundaries increasing intimacy Actually doesn t do that
1
SPEAKER_00
And that depends.
1
SPEAKER_00
You don t always need a boundary.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, you know, it s establishing when you really need a boundary and when you really don t, or if you re being like self-protective.
1
SPEAKER_00
But if you feel this person is not capable
1
SPEAKER_00
of changing in the way that you want them to change.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you have to build a boundary around that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Having a conversation and asking them to change when you know they can t is just asking something of them, increasing intimacy, and then you re in it even more.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because, yeah, I think there was this thing of like, well, do I say that I m putting up a boundary?
1
SPEAKER_00
And she s like, no, you just put up the boundary.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was like, yeah, it s complicated and feels hard and can feel hurtful and painful.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I think it s an interesting thing to say.
1
SPEAKER_00
So I don t think I have a problem with it, all to say.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t think I have a problem telling people, but I ve chosen not to often.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I think that I m way better off for that.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
But like Uber driver, you should say.
1
SPEAKER_01
I just feel... Anyway, it s like, I m like, he s, you know, or she, but it s like... But it was a guy.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s often... The one with the best musical taste was a woman.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s why I let her... I also was like, that s fine.
1
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, I guess there s a part of me that s like,
2
SPEAKER_00
And whatever, it s gonna sound like I m— But I m like, they re just— Yeah, you re being compassionate.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s like, they re driving, and driving is so stressful, and they re dealing with all these people, and they just want to listen to their music, you know?
2
SPEAKER_00
So when you say that, does it erase the anger?
2
SPEAKER_00
No.
2
SPEAKER_00
It doesn t.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay, because— Well, it doesn t—
2
SPEAKER_00
It s not the anger.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s like, I almost feel like I need to talk about this.
2
SPEAKER_00
I feel so overstimulated lately.
2
SPEAKER_00
I actually started wearing earplugs, even walking around.
2
SPEAKER_00
I feel like I m—sounds and lights, I just feel a little overstimulated.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, that for me is anxiety.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
My mind very much presents itself like that.
2
SPEAKER_01
Of course you re anxious right now.
2
SPEAKER_01
You have a lot going on, and the world has a lot going on.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m probably just more sensitive.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m a Pisces.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m sensitive to begin with.
2
SPEAKER_01
By the way, so many people have said that we are so stupid.
2
SPEAKER_01
We are stereotypes of our size.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, really?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think that s right.
2
SPEAKER_00
So the mix of the Virgo Pisces, they say it s fun.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s fun.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s working for me.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, me too.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think we balance each other out.
2
SPEAKER_01
Good balance.
2
SPEAKER_01
In some ways we re synced, in other ways we re...
2
SPEAKER_01
Not synced at all, which makes us sync.
2
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was going to say.
2
SPEAKER_01
We re learning the lessons we need to learn from each other.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes, exactly.
2
SPEAKER_01
So, well, I hope, yeah, maybe more meditation to try to, like you said, turn the lights down, take a time out.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
I just need to be my own kindergarten teacher.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m like, not joking.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, I just need to, like, have playtime and turn down the lights and just have naps.
2
SPEAKER_00
Do it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Someone needs to take the iPad away.
2
SPEAKER_01
We are supported by Warby Parker.
2
SPEAKER_01
You, Liz, are currently wearing your Warby Parker glasses.
2
SPEAKER_00
Not even on purpose.
2
SPEAKER_00
I just wear them every day now.
2
SPEAKER_01
I love your glasses.
2
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
2
SPEAKER_01
They look so cute.
2
SPEAKER_01
Mine haven t come yet, but I m so excited for them to arrive.
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SPEAKER_01
I picked out my five.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
2
SPEAKER_00
I love it.
2
SPEAKER_00
I love it.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I went in actually, I got an eye exam and it was like the best eye exam I ve ever had because I can t see at night and no one has ever given me like a real explanation.
2
SPEAKER_00
And the optometrist at Warby was like, you have large pupils and so your eyes are adjusting.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so now I feel like I m not losing my eyesight.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh my gosh.
2
SPEAKER_01
She was great.
2
SPEAKER_01
I did the home try on program and it was so fun on the website because you can virtual try on.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Warby Parker offers everything you need for happier eyes.
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Eyeglasses, sunglasses, contact lenses, and eye exams.
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And you can shop with them online or in stores.
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Glasses start at $95, including prescription lenses.
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Ships free and includes a prepaid return shipping label.
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Try five pairs of glasses at home for free at warbyparker.com slash synced.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
Do we get all our pins?
2
SPEAKER_01
Bugs life, silent dinners, dates.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think we ve done it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay, great.
2
SPEAKER_01
Let s run the gamut.
2
SPEAKER_01
Let s do a few cues.
2
SPEAKER_01
Also, write us some questions.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
Submit questions.
2
SPEAKER_01
We d love your questions.
2
SPEAKER_01
To the website.
2
SPEAKER_01
We d love your questions.
2
SPEAKER_00
We love small town gossip.
2
SPEAKER_00
They don t have to be big existential questions.
2
SPEAKER_00
They can be like very specific.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like the more specific, kind of the better.
2
SPEAKER_01
The better.
2
SPEAKER_01
I agree.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m with you on that.
2
SPEAKER_01
I loved the engagement ring one last week.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
We went deep.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I hope you saw our video.
2
SPEAKER_01
We haven t done it yet.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was like, do we need a video?
2
SPEAKER_01
Check out our video.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay, let s see.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay, speaking of gossip, this is a ding, ding, ding.
2
SPEAKER_01
How much gossip is too much gossip at work?
2
SPEAKER_01
I m no mean girl by any means, but love a lunchtime tea spill with my work buddies.
2
SPEAKER_01
Except lately, I ve been feeling like I ve been saying too much.
2
SPEAKER_01
So please help me decide what info I keep off limits, Rachel.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, wow.
2
SPEAKER_01
That was great because that was just the- The subject line?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay, great.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay, we love this.
2
SPEAKER_01
My work girlies are all in different departments and share all the gossip about our teams, bosses, and more over lunch.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was recently struck with the realization that one of the girls may not be keeping the tea in the inner circle.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh.
2
SPEAKER_01
As I overheard a convo she had with an outsider related to an in-group topic, I don t want to lose my work friend by refusing to participate in the gossip sesh, and I fear that my own secret shares end up being not so secret.
2
SPEAKER_01
Can I find a balance?
2
SPEAKER_01
How do you decide when to shut your mouth?
2
SPEAKER_01
Gossip is so hard to resist.
2
SPEAKER_00
We all do it.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s how we evolved as human beings.
2
SPEAKER_00
It is.
2
SPEAKER_00
Even gossip is how workers rights, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
And workers unite in workplaces.
2
SPEAKER_00
It has so many positive outcomes.
2
SPEAKER_01
It has a purpose.
2
SPEAKER_01
But it also has so much destruction.
2
SPEAKER_00
and can get you fired.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s one thing I learned when I was stupid in 26, like, oh, they own all of the channels.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you are particularly, like, you re very vigilant, I would say.
2
SPEAKER_01
When you text and stuff, you always give, like, pseudonyms or… Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
I never want to put… Which I laughed so hard at at first when you started texting.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then I… I get it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because you never know.
2
SPEAKER_00
You never know who s around when the phone pops, you know.
2
SPEAKER_00
I ve been in crazy friend situations where there was, like, one of our friends was reading our text, like, reading people s phones and, like, doing… Oh, God.
2
SPEAKER_00
And again, I thought it was just me, but then I have another friend.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so now I m extremely paranoid.
2
SPEAKER_00
We could do a whole show about this.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because I do think about this a lot.
2
SPEAKER_00
So gossip, for me, was a coping mechanism in toxic workplaces that I ve been in, or not toxic.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, every workplace can be difficult, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
And especially, I think, right now, a lot of people are struggling with like, they don t like their job or they re not getting paid enough and being asked to do so many things that are nuts.
2
SPEAKER_00
And people are working from home, so you don t even have the free snacks and the hangouts.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so I get it.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think that gossip can be a way to create relationships and community within your workplace.
2
SPEAKER_00
Do you think that if there s a weak link that is sharing, that is a black and white, you can t talk to that person?
2
SPEAKER_00
Because that s your job.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s your livelihood.
2
SPEAKER_00
That is to me, there s no nuance there.
2
SPEAKER_00
And even doing it as a group, like I would almost find like one person.
2
SPEAKER_00
Usually you ll have your work bestie, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
You can just look at each other and you don t even need to say anything.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re like, oh my God, this person again, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think that that lowers the potential damage that it can create.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s hard though, because I think...
2
SPEAKER_01
it s nearly impossible to keep a secret.
2
SPEAKER_01
I really, I do.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, just in my experience, people can t keep stuff to themselves.
2
SPEAKER_01
And they share it with one other person and do the same thing, which is like, obviously you can t share this with anyone.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then that person s in another conversation where it s relevant.
2
SPEAKER_01
They say, okay, but you just like can t share it.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then all of a sudden everyone knows.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I feel like the only secrets that can truly exist are if like two people commit a murder, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Don t commit murders with your coworkers.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God.
2
SPEAKER_01
No, don t.
2
SPEAKER_01
They will throw you under the bus.
2
SPEAKER_00
You might lose your job.
2
SPEAKER_01
You might, you might.
2
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, so if two people commit a murder and those two people truly do not tell anyone, that s the only way.
2
SPEAKER_01
But if one person tells their wife it s already over, everyone knows you re in jail.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, do you watch Sir Tarty?
2
SPEAKER_01
It s all about— Even— They do it together.
2
SPEAKER_00
I haven t watched it.
2
SPEAKER_00
I had to skip over the scary parts because I am such a scaredy cat, but it s really good.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s really fun.
2
SPEAKER_00
And— But even them, like, they re all friends.
2
SPEAKER_00
They have a real reason not to— They re stakes.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, stakes.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it obviously just, you know— See?
2
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, snowballs.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay, but I have a cautionary tale I want to share for this person.
2
SPEAKER_01
I know someone who works at a company, revered jobs, hard to have.
2
SPEAKER_01
And a bunch of the people got fired because they were on a slack.
2
SPEAKER_01
They were talking about some other people in the workplace.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I don t know, something happened where they left it up or something got sent and the person
2
SPEAKER_01
who they were talking about, who was a superior, saw it, and they got fired.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
They had big jobs and big positions.
2
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_00
And they got fired over gossip.
2
SPEAKER_00
Gossip.
2
SPEAKER_00
And the content of the chats, was it like, this person s annoying, or was it about their work?
2
SPEAKER_00
That I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
That I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_01
That is such a cautionary tale because especially if you feel safe in your job and like you re doing well in your job, you feel sort of inoculated and you forget there are people above you and people are people and have hurt feelings.
2
SPEAKER_00
Of course.
2
SPEAKER_01
And if they have power over you, you have to understand that in a professional setting.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s humiliating.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because it happened to me once, a small little company I worked at, and I sent a Google chat at that time, instead of to my friend, my bestie, gossipy about my boss to my boss.
2
SPEAKER_01
No, Liz!
2
SPEAKER_01
No!
2
SPEAKER_00
I did.
2
SPEAKER_00
No!
2
SPEAKER_00
And that s why I m paranoid.
2
SPEAKER_00
Fuck.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
What did you say?
2
SPEAKER_00
It was like, it wasn t as bad as some of the things that I think I had previously, like, of all the things that could have ended up in his chat, it was probably a three out of ten.
2
SPEAKER_00
But it still was clearly, he was just bringing, whatever, if I get too specific, it ll be, well, who cares.
2
SPEAKER_00
But it was just like a really janky fire escape that was basically the conference
2
SPEAKER_00
room, honestly.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so my boss kept bringing people into the fire escape, and I was like, why is—and I, you know, used the name, like, bringing everybody in the—you know, what s he doing?
2
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, oh, uh—and I invented something.
2
SPEAKER_00
You did?
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, of course, because I m— Were you able to pull it off?
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it was one of those things where I think he knew, but he just was like, okay,
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes, he was gracious.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes, he was gracious.
2
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I was crushing it.
2
SPEAKER_00
They couldn t get rid of me.
2
SPEAKER_01
But that is what I m saying.
2
SPEAKER_01
Some of these people were killing it at their job, in a big job, and it didn t matter.
2
SPEAKER_01
If someone s upset enough and they re your boss, you re gone.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I had a work bestie.
2
SPEAKER_00
We made up names for everyone.
2
SPEAKER_00
Everyone has a pseudonym, code names that have nothing to do—you can never know.
2
SPEAKER_00
And we used that.
2
SPEAKER_00
But then, I think there s always a line, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Where gossip can be fun and, again, help you connect.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that s how we evolved as a human race.
2
SPEAKER_00
But if you re even asking the question, it probably means you ve crossed that line.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Where it s actually not bringing you closer together.
2
SPEAKER_00
And people
2
SPEAKER_01
feel it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Even if you use code names, even if you re, you know, not even doing the look and you wait until after the meeting, people will feel it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then you re isolating yourself in a way, you know, from other people.
2
SPEAKER_00
And the last thing I ll say is also,
2
SPEAKER_00
Particularly with gossip, I have been trying to be much more mindful about how much I m doing it because gossip also makes you feel like you ve done something and it actually just is going to build up resentment because the person or the people around you will keep acting the way that you do.
2
SPEAKER_00
And just because you keep talking about it to someone else and not doing anything differently or not telling them, it almost can start eroding your relationships with, again, some of these people because you re clearly frustrated or think what they re doing is wrong or, again, just weird.
2
SPEAKER_00
And instead of communicating it or having a response to it, you re going in another group and you re talking about it and it can create more momentum for resentment instead of connection.
2
SPEAKER_01
I just think it just creates negativity.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it can be fun.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it feels like a relief and a release when you gossip.
2
SPEAKER_01
But like you said, it s very temporary because it doesn t actually fix anything.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s just a vent and then it s back the next day.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so they ll do it again and then you ll have to do the cycle again.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s ultimately negative.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so if you want
2
SPEAKER_01
to like decrease the level of negativity, then I think for me, a good trick is exactly what you just said about the Uber driver.
2
SPEAKER_01
Try to find why that person is the way they are.
2
SPEAKER_01
You like hate the way they are, which is fine.
2
SPEAKER_01
Not everyone has to like everyone, but it s recognizing, okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s a direct quote.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s a Michael Scott direct quote from The Office.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, why are you the way that you are?
2
SPEAKER_00
To Toby.
2
SPEAKER_00
It is.
2
SPEAKER_00
It is.
2
SPEAKER_01
So true.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that s okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, it s also fine.
2
SPEAKER_01
You will not like everybody.
2
SPEAKER_01
No, you won t.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s my point.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m not saying try to like everybody.
2
SPEAKER_01
You won t.
2
SPEAKER_01
But you can recognize that is not a person I like.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t like that this, this, and this about them.
2
SPEAKER_01
It drives me nuts.
2
SPEAKER_01
I feel like it s affecting me.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, that s actually a pin.
2
SPEAKER_01
So if it s just like, ugh, this person s so annoying.
2
SPEAKER_01
Try to, in your own head, give a justification of that.
2
SPEAKER_01
They probably feel really insecure because they re not friends with us or whatever.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because they re not in the cool group.
2
SPEAKER_01
No, or whatever.
2
SPEAKER_01
Whatever.
2
SPEAKER_01
Just find the reason.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it will bring you some compassion.
2
SPEAKER_01
And you feel worse when you talk badly about someone and you know they re
2
SPEAKER_01
insecurity and fallibility.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it ll be less tempting for you to create again.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that s why it s fun.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re creating storylines.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re just creating your own page six for your office.
2
SPEAKER_01
And monitor how much you do it, and then change the subject.
2
SPEAKER_01
And now you know this person can t
2
SPEAKER_01
Sorry, but there s a leak.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so you have to you have to tighten that shit up.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s scary.
2
SPEAKER_00
Very bad.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
And again, you don t know.
2
SPEAKER_00
I just when people can be trusted, you know, I just watch.
2
SPEAKER_01
Just watch your back a little bit.
2
SPEAKER_01
And.
2
SPEAKER_01
And know, just like universal truth, that you re not special.
2
SPEAKER_01
If people, if whoever you re talking to in this group, you re talking about other people, people are talking about you.
2
SPEAKER_01
And they are, probably, because they re inclined to.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it s kind of like, do I want to be part of this?
2
SPEAKER_01
Because I ve had that.
2
SPEAKER_01
I have a friend who really engages in a lot of gossip.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I love her, but I really recognize
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I know for certain she s talking about me too, because there is no way she s talking about every single other person except me.
2
SPEAKER_01
So when I m engaging with her, I know that.
2
SPEAKER_01
She likes to talk about people and she ll probably talk about me and so that like shifts my relationship with her a little bit.
2
SPEAKER_01
Sure.
2
SPEAKER_01
And changes what I m willing to give.
2
SPEAKER_01
So it s just being aware of it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think you re right.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like noting the toxic line and having some compassion for just everyone.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, except if it is affecting you or your work.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think that s something you have to address.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you think your work is getting stifled or stamped on or whatever, stomped on, that s something for you to either have a conversation about with a superior in a very professional way.
2
SPEAKER_01
In fact, I would do that.
2
SPEAKER_01
I would not even talk to the person.
2
SPEAKER_01
I would just talk to the boss and say, I m struggling with this right now.
2
SPEAKER_01
Wonder if you have any advice on how to go about it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And also, this just came to mind, but gossip about your work with people who you don t work with, too.
2
SPEAKER_00
If there s something that needs to be... Oh, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right?
2
SPEAKER_00
My work bestie from a previous job just started a new job, and she s just sending me slacks of stupid things.
2
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so we can commiserate, even though I ve literally never met these people.
2
SPEAKER_00
Obviously, I m not there.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m not going to... Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it has no... It sort of reduces the casualties that can possibly come from it.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s great advice.
2
SPEAKER_00
Just talk about it to someone else.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
I agree.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
Did we do this one?
2
SPEAKER_01
How do I increase the amount of sex I have in my relationship?
2
SPEAKER_01
Sam.
2
SPEAKER_01
We ve done a sex, a different.
2
SPEAKER_00
We have done a sex one.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Let s see if this, right, okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
We haven t done this.
2
SPEAKER_01
No.
2
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
Hi, Monica and Liz.
2
SPEAKER_01
My boyfriend and I have been together for five years.
2
SPEAKER_01
We ve lived together for four years and over the past one to 1.5 years, the amount of sex we ve had dropped drastically.
2
SPEAKER_01
Last year, I think we had sex less than 10 times.
2
SPEAKER_01
This year, I think it s been less than five.
2
SPEAKER_01
All the times we have sex, I ve been the one to initiate.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ve gained weight over that same time and I can t help but think my boyfriend isn t attracted to me anymore.
2
SPEAKER_01
We both say we want to have more sex, but nothing ever comes from these conversations.
2
SPEAKER_01
How can we increase the amount of sex and intimacy we have and keep it up?
2
SPEAKER_01
I feel like it s obviously a major part of our relationship that is missing, but the love and commitment is definitely there.
2
SPEAKER_01
Ooh.
2
SPEAKER_01
Sex is so deep.
2
SPEAKER_01
I know it from couples therapy.
2
SPEAKER_01
Season two.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
What do they talk about?
2
SPEAKER_01
There s a couple, almost exact same question, gender reversed, where the boyfriend texted the girlfriend and basically said, I don t think we re having enough sex.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then when they were talking to the couples therapist about it,
2
SPEAKER_01
weight came up as an insecurity.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it s so sensitive and wanting to feel wanted and attractive is we all want that.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it feels devastating to think you re not attractive to your partner.
2
SPEAKER_01
Part of what I learned in couples therapy
2
SPEAKER_01
is that you just have to be really, really communicative and really vulnerable.
2
SPEAKER_01
It made me really happy to be sitting alone in my bed, if I m being honest.
2
SPEAKER_01
Actually, I was.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was feeling so many things because I would vacillate so fast from
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God, I m so glad I m not in a relationship too.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, these people, they just love each other so much and just like can t make it work.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I want that.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I want to be in couples therapy.
2
SPEAKER_00
I want to be in couples therapy.
2
SPEAKER_00
It looks fun.
2
SPEAKER_00
The way they sit is interesting.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s that you have like, you kind of have a fact checker in the room, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, because in therapy, on one on one, you can kind of,
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, if you have a good therapist, they ll, you know, notice and check you.
3
SPEAKER_01
But overall, you can kind of just say, they don t know that there s someone else in the room.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s like, I was there.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s not actually, you know.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I also had that feeling watching it too, where I was like, man, I wish I could do this because I would learn so much about myself.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, and there s so many things that I just wouldn t be able to avoid.
3
SPEAKER_01
You can t avoid certain things.
3
SPEAKER_00
I feel like we should normalize couples therapy for any relationship.
3
SPEAKER_00
Should we go to therapy?
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh God, maybe.
3
SPEAKER_00
Do we have Esther come in and do it?
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh God.
3
SPEAKER_01
She did a whole thing about friends, because she says that.
3
SPEAKER_01
She s like, the fact that friends don t go to therapy, it s weird.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like we have family therapy, we have couples therapy, but friendships often end.
3
SPEAKER_01
And she did an interview, whatever, I can t remember what it was.
3
SPEAKER_01
she did with these two guys that lost, you know, drifted apart.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t know, from the story, they seem like, oh, they just drifted apart, but it s so deep.
3
SPEAKER_01
They each had, like, assumed that a thing was true for the other person.
3
SPEAKER_01
It wasn t true.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, and to come back to Sam, she has insecurities about her body, and she has feelings now from having decided that that s why her partner isn t having sex with her.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I don t know what her partner thinks, but unless she asks him and has a conversation about it, she s inferring that and that might just be a projection and a really painful one, which might not even have anything to do with it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
Because I want to say that too.
3
SPEAKER_00
I want to say you have to have a hard conversation and you have to lead with your vulnerability and you have to say, I m feeling like this about myself and I m wondering if
3
SPEAKER_00
You re feeling it because, okay, in the episode of the couple s therapy, the girlfriend says, yeah, he s gained weight and I don t like it, kind of.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, wow.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s that straightforward.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then she s very blunt, this woman.
3
SPEAKER_00
And in fact, she works on that throughout the process of therapy, season two.
3
SPEAKER_00
Why is she so harsh is something that starts coming out.
3
SPEAKER_00
But after that session, like,
3
SPEAKER_00
They started working out together and made that a part of their routine.
3
SPEAKER_00
And she herself was like, I feel that way about me too.
3
SPEAKER_00
People are so complicated.
3
SPEAKER_00
All you can do is be honest.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s the only thing that will get you anywhere.
3
SPEAKER_00
So you just have to, I think, say, I feel like this right now.
3
SPEAKER_00
And maybe I m projecting it on you, but I m worried that you aren t attracted to me right now because of my weight.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I really want you to be honest with me about it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And maybe we can come to a solution.
3
SPEAKER_00
And maybe he ll say, like, I love your body.
3
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_00
Or maybe he won t.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I hope he meets you with his honesty so you guys can really figure this out.
3
SPEAKER_00
But do you, Liz, as someone who says you can t even tell the Uber driver to turn down the music.
3
SPEAKER_00
If something physical was happening with a partner, there were some physical changes, who knows, wait, whatever, that you did find unattractive.
3
SPEAKER_00
Would you be able to say it?
3
SPEAKER_01
It s so funny because as we were talking, that s what was in the back of my mind.
3
SPEAKER_01
The question of like, is that ever appropriate?
3
SPEAKER_01
That s the moral, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, are you supposed to just love your partner unconditionally?
3
SPEAKER_01
And that s what I like to believe.
3
SPEAKER_01
Maybe I haven t talked about this with you, but when I m dating someone and they like really talk about my body a lot, there s a guy who s like, oh my God, this part, you know.
3
SPEAKER_01
He loves your parts.
3
SPEAKER_01
Love my parts.
3
SPEAKER_01
And actually, that doesn t feel good to me.
3
SPEAKER_01
That stresses me out.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because then I m like, that means that I have to maintain this.
3
SPEAKER_01
Or that means that if something happens, a.k.a.
3
SPEAKER_01
childbirth, like particularly women s bodies.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, what are you saying?
3
SPEAKER_01
Like our bodies change just within our menstrual cycle.
3
SPEAKER_00
For sure.
3
SPEAKER_01
You can gain five pounds just having your period.
3
SPEAKER_01
So your body s going to change.
3
SPEAKER_01
Shit happens.
3
SPEAKER_01
I might get a cancer.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I think, and maybe this is naive, what your partner s body looks like, not that we should pretend like you re not going to notice or it s not going to affect you in any kind of way, but I think that if you re in a true partnership, it shouldn t be... I don t feel like you have a say.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
So this is interesting.
3
SPEAKER_00
In theory... Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
I 100% agree with you.
3
SPEAKER_00
I wish we lived in a world where physical, by the way, it sounds like they are in a loving, committed relationship, that the love is not on the table here.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I think that s good, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
It s not like she s saying, I think he might leave me.
3
SPEAKER_00
She s saying, we don t have sex.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so I think that s kind of common that you love someone and you re going to be there and you re committed, but the physical attraction can wane.
3
SPEAKER_00
And part of that, I think, is also just over time.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think that happens.
3
SPEAKER_00
But that s the thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
You can t get in a relationship being like, well, this is what you look like.
3
SPEAKER_01
You have to look like this the whole time.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s not an expectation anyone should have.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s not.
3
SPEAKER_00
Also, we don t know.
3
SPEAKER_00
We don t know if this person is feeling that way or not.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right, right, right.
3
SPEAKER_00
But we also are humans, and sometimes things aren t as physically attractive as others, and I don t know what to say.
3
SPEAKER_00
If I was in a relationship
3
SPEAKER_00
and we were in a loving, committed relationship forever, standing the test of time.
3
SPEAKER_00
Then all of a sudden, he came down with halitosis.
3
SPEAKER_00
Halitosis.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
What s halitosis?
3
SPEAKER_00
What does halitosis do?
3
SPEAKER_00
Chronic bad breath.
3
SPEAKER_00
Chronic.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay?
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
would be very hard for me.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t think I would divorce that person or leave them, but I can t lie and say that s not going to affect my physical attraction and our sex life.
3
SPEAKER_00
But maybe if we had a conversation about it, I could say,
3
SPEAKER_00
Look, that s why I m saying, could anyone ever really have this conversation where I could be honest and say, look, I love you.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m not going anywhere.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m here.
3
SPEAKER_00
And something s happened.
3
SPEAKER_00
We can t kiss when we have sex.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean that, like, maybe.
3
SPEAKER_00
Something s happened and I m sorry, but I can t be attracted.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, there s something physical and separating it from the emotional.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I love you no matter what, but physically we have a little ish and maybe there s some like middle solutions or something that we ll never get there if we don t have that conversation.
3
SPEAKER_00
But it also feels, I get that it feels impossible to have that conversation.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
I feel like when I really love someone, even the things that are— Like, we ve talked about this with someone that I was dating that has— B.M.
3
SPEAKER_01
Other people think— Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, oh no, I love that.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, because I was so, you know— A hundred percent.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s different, though.
3
SPEAKER_01
You like it.
3
SPEAKER_01
I wasn t like, this smells great.
3
SPEAKER_01
You kind of come to love the things that are imperfect about them.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes, but that s different, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
Because you re falling in love with him and you know it.
3
SPEAKER_00
It might be different.
3
SPEAKER_00
It might be.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_00
It might be different if you are already in the relationship, committed, and then all of a sudden you re like, why do you smell like that all of a sudden?
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t like that smell.
3
SPEAKER_00
But obviously, I love you.
3
SPEAKER_00
I love you.
3
SPEAKER_00
But this is tricky.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think the answer is you have to be vulnerable and say that you re struggling with this and that you re scared and see what he says.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s scary.
3
SPEAKER_00
This is all being, again, being a person is impossible.
3
SPEAKER_01
Why is it so?
3
SPEAKER_01
They should give us classes.
3
SPEAKER_01
Even at the Best Buddies thing last night, someone was like, oh yeah, I teach life class to people with intellectual disabilities.
3
SPEAKER_01
I teach them how to organize a party and go to the grocery store.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, I kind of need that.
3
SPEAKER_01
Where are those classes for us?
3
SPEAKER_01
Because I need a class.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, and I think for this, it s, in many cases, this is also something that your partner is aware of and annoyed with or trying to fix.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, yeah, he s apparently saying, they re both saying.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
But even if there s this new physical change, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
I think in certain cases, it s not really your job to tell them that this turns you off as much as, okay, wait, how do I open this?
3
SPEAKER_01
If they re aware of it and they re managing it, it s not your job to... Wait, which person?
3
SPEAKER_01
If your partner... Again, I feel like also like some people might have these things where, you know, and then I don t want to make people feel bad.
3
SPEAKER_00
I know, I know.
3
SPEAKER_00
I know, me either.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I want to be honest because I do think probably a lot of people have dealt with this.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it s hard.
3
SPEAKER_00
In sickness and in health, though.
3
SPEAKER_00
What do you do with that?
3
SPEAKER_00
But in sickness and in health doesn t mean I m going to have sex with you in sickness and in health.
3
SPEAKER_00
OK, this is the difference.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I do think there s a real difference.
3
SPEAKER_00
We also don t know that someone s got a disease in this question.
3
SPEAKER_00
She s gained like a little weight, and they re not having a lot of sex.
3
SPEAKER_00
I get what you re saying.
3
SPEAKER_00
Insignasin and health is, doesn t matter what the fuck happens in this, we re together forever.
3
SPEAKER_00
You also believe in that a little more than me.
3
SPEAKER_00
Not Insignasin and health.
3
SPEAKER_00
I definitely believe in Insignasin and health, but you have a very optimistic view of partnership.
3
SPEAKER_01
I saw it with my family.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think I had it modeled where I think most people would have left.
3
SPEAKER_00
I love that.
3
SPEAKER_00
You do have a very optimistic view, which I think is beautiful.
3
SPEAKER_00
And yeah, when you commit, it s a choice every day.
3
SPEAKER_00
You commit.
3
SPEAKER_00
You ve decided.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I don t think that s necessarily the same as physical attraction.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I do think we have to parse those two
3
SPEAKER_01
And it probably helps to do that, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Because then it doesn t make it this personal rejection thing of, again, you don t want to be with me.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s like, I think your view is good in the sense of like, if you take sex as a metaphor for your whole relationship, then you might turn it into a bigger thing or the issue won t get resolved.
3
SPEAKER_01
Then it s become this whole, do you really love me?
3
SPEAKER_01
And I think that s how it feels when someone does that, you know, when you feel rejected.
3
SPEAKER_00
I know, because it s about being desired.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s a physical problem, but it s so emotional, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_01
And even in this, Sam s letter, it s mostly about the emotions.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s not like, she s not even talking about the physical consequences.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s having a lot of emotional consequences.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I think we should speak more openly about sex.
3
SPEAKER_01
And we have a lot of questions around sex or what we were talking about last week around, you know, STIs.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because it s sex, it s like, oh my God, we can t, there s a stigma or there s this fear or there s this,
3
SPEAKER_01
silence around things, and it s like, no, like, let s just talk about it in the way that we talk about everything else in our relationship, like chores and domestic labor and, you know, those boring elements.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, have a boring conversation about sex, I think should be the goal.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Sam, you re perfect.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I hope- I would totally have sex with you.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I would invite you.
3
SPEAKER_01
Have a conversation so that you re not creating, you know- A whole narrative that might not be true.
3
SPEAKER_00
A whole narrative that might not be true.
3
SPEAKER_00
I would say 99% chance, it has nothing to do with your weight.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I agree.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so let s figure out what it is.
3
SPEAKER_00
Because also maybe it s like,
3
SPEAKER_00
Libidos are not always at a 10, and men also feel very obligated to keep it at a 10.
3
SPEAKER_00
And if they re not, they feel like they re not masculine or they re not adequate.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so maybe he just isn t really physiologically feeling very sexual, but feels like he has to kind of keep up the facade that he is.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, there s a million things.
3
SPEAKER_00
So many things.
3
SPEAKER_00
So just get to the bottom of it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Watch couples therapy.
3
SPEAKER_00
Let s see, do I have a shorty?
3
SPEAKER_00
We could try this.
3
SPEAKER_00
Let s try it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
Didn t get a plus one for my boyfriend.
3
SPEAKER_00
Christina.
3
SPEAKER_00
Close friends of mine are getting married and I did not get a plus one for my boyfriend for the wedding.
3
SPEAKER_00
We all go to the same CrossFit gym.
3
SPEAKER_00
I knew the couple before they were a couple and we had an established friendship before my boyfriend started at the gym.
3
SPEAKER_00
My boyfriend has social anxiety and it takes him a long time to warm up to people.
3
SPEAKER_00
It took him over a year before he was even comfortable with me, and during that time it was hard to tell if he was interested at all.
3
SPEAKER_00
But we ve been dating for over a year now.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m pretty upset I didn t get the plus one for him.
3
SPEAKER_00
I know it s not due to budget or limited space, and other people in similarly situated relationships got the plus one.
3
SPEAKER_00
I have a feeling it s because my boyfriend does not make an effort to make small talk at the gym when he sees them.
3
SPEAKER_00
He s just terrible at that and he s not doing it to be mean.
3
SPEAKER_00
I know it s their day and they can do what they want, but I was shocked they excluded him and I got pretty sad about it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Should I try to see it another way and not have hard feelings over this?
3
SPEAKER_00
What do you think?
3
SPEAKER_00
I would want to know how big it is.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s not going to change it, though.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s the thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
Getting any details is not going to change it.
3
SPEAKER_00
They, for some reason or another, and you don t know why, and I don t think knowing why is going to change anything.
3
SPEAKER_00
Um, I have a hot take.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, God.
3
SPEAKER_00
Go.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think what s happening when he gets excluded is there s two things.
3
SPEAKER_00
One, a fear that you ll eventually be excluded if you stay in this partnership because this person you re worried
3
SPEAKER_00
Causes people to isolate or distance themselves from him.
3
SPEAKER_00
And if you stay in this partnership, you might be isolated, too I feel like that s what s happening for you personally like you re scared that you yourself will
3
SPEAKER_00
not be invited to the next thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I think, and this happens a lot, where if you haven t really noticed or cared about something in your partner, and then your friends express that they don t like something, now you see this in a new way.
3
SPEAKER_00
You see this, let s call it character defect flaw, whatever you wanna call it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And now you re a little angry because now you have to sit with the fact
3
SPEAKER_00
that you re in a relationship with a person like this, and do you want to be?
3
SPEAKER_00
You ve been sort of put in this position to have to think about it, and that s uncomfortable.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think that s bullseye.
3
SPEAKER_01
A wedding is a— I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s like whatever.
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SPEAKER_01
I mean, not whatever, but it s not that much of a big deal.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s a day.
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SPEAKER_00
It s a party.
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SPEAKER_01
Not that much a big deal, but it seems like a big deal to you.
3
SPEAKER_01
And you re explaining so many things about him, and you re defending him in your letter, which is not a bad thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
I totally get that.
3
SPEAKER_01
But the fact that you re kind of defending him means that you feel, yeah, you re feeling defensive around this.
3
SPEAKER_01
And you haven t talked to them about it directly, so we don t even know that that might be the reason, but it seems like you re pretty sure that is.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, which means that you yourself are somewhat struggling with that.
3
SPEAKER_00
And to that, I would try to remind you, even though this is so hard, you re not him.
3
SPEAKER_00
And you can love someone with lots of issues because anyone you love is going to have lots of issues.
3
SPEAKER_00
We all have lots of issues.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I think also you might be taking those on like we often do as yours and they re not yours.
3
SPEAKER_00
He s his own person with his own set of things.
3
SPEAKER_00
And they might be unappealing to other people, but that doesn t mean you are unappealing.
3
SPEAKER_00
And if you love him, you can love the flaws.
3
SPEAKER_00
You can be okay with it.
3
SPEAKER_00
You can choose to and say, I know this about this person.
3
SPEAKER_00
And you can have acceptance around it.
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SPEAKER_00
And that s it.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
Cause you already know and you have decided that it s all right.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
And he might not even want to go.
3
SPEAKER_01
It seems like he s- It s not about the wedding.
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SPEAKER_01
That s the thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s not like, oh, he s upset and he s sad and like, it s like, you re sad that he didn t get invited, but it doesn t even seem like he really wants to, he didn t want to be invited in the first place.
3
SPEAKER_01
So also accepting that, yeah, this might be a relationship where you are going to weddings and maybe have that conversation.
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SPEAKER_01
By yourself.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
Like if your partner does have a lot of, you know, and that s common.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Often extroverts love introverts and vice versa, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
But sort of accepting that and that reality.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think when you recognize, oh my god, my friends don t like my partner, that is heavy.
3
SPEAKER_00
It is.
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SPEAKER_00
But then you have to do, do I like my partner?
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SPEAKER_00
They re not living with him or in a relationship with him.
3
SPEAKER_00
You are.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you do, great.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s great.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
All right, I think that s it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Check out our video, remember.
3
SPEAKER_00
We have a video.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, it s so good.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s such a good video.
3
SPEAKER_00
You guys had so much fun making that video.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s so much fun.
3
SPEAKER_00
We re manifesting.
3
SPEAKER_00
We are.
3
SPEAKER_00
So thank you for listening and please submit.
3
SPEAKER_00
Keep submitting.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes, we love your questions.
3
SPEAKER_00
We love the questions.
3
SPEAKER_00
We re so grateful to everyone who s submitted already and we ll see you next week.
3
SPEAKER_00
Wait, what is today?
3
SPEAKER_00
Today is, this is the 22nd.
3
SPEAKER_00
Wow, we re just heading straight into these holidays.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s nuts.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s nuts!
3
SPEAKER_00
Alright, I love you.
3
SPEAKER_00
See you next week.
3
SPEAKER_00
Bye, love you too.