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 This is episode number 1,191 with New York Times bestselling author, Lori Gottlieb.
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Welcome to the School of Greatness.
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My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur.
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And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness.
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Thanks for spending some time with me today.
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Now let the class begin.
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 Welcome back, my friend.
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Today's guest is Lori Gottlieb.
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We brought her back for part two.
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She's a psychotherapist, podcast host and New York Times bestselling author of Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, which has sold over a million copies and it's currently being adopted
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 as a television series for ABC.
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And she's got a new workbook that serves as a companion to her best-selling book, Maybe You Should Talk to Someone Workbook, a toolkit for editing your story and changing your life.
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And the first episode was so powerful, I just couldn't stop.
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I wanted to keep going in the interview.
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So this is part two.
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And if you haven't checked out part one yet, make sure to go to lewishouse.com slash 1190.
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 after this.
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They're both incredible episodes.
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In this interview, we discuss the biggest red flags to look out for in relationships.
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And so many people miss these specific ones we talk about here.
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How to improve your trust and communication with your partner.
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Why it's dangerous to rely on your partner to make you happy.
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And so many people do this.
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 The key things healthy relationships have in common and so much more.
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And if you know anyone that is in a relationship or it's looking to get in a relationship or is struggling and wanting to improve their relationship, then send them a link to this episode right now.
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They will be inspired by Lori's message.
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Just text it to them, post it over on social media.
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Make sure to tag me and Lori as well on your social media profiles.
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 So we know who is listening and consuming this while they're listening to it.
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And a big shout out to the fan of the week who is from Giovanni.
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And they said, hey, a new subscriber and I've learned so much from you, Lewis, from episodes with Mel Robbins, Matthew McConaughey, and Joe Dispenza.
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You and your guests provide excellent value on your show to learn from and just overall value.
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So big thank you to Giovanni for leaving us a review
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 And if you guys want a chance to be shouted out on the School of Greatness podcast, then go to Apple podcast right now, subscribe and leave a review or at any time during this episode, if you're inspired and something really stands out to you, just share some feedback in the review section of the part you enjoyed the most.
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Okay, in just a moment, the one and only Lori Gottlieb.
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 So if you feel like you're a good team, you got the character qualities of they show up for you, they're reliable, you feel like you can trust them, they have emotional generosity, flexibility, similar lifestyle, and the quality on a daily basis is good, then that's a pretty good mess, is what I'm hearing you say.
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 Again, there's those intangible qualities, but if all of that is there and that's going on, yeah.
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Yeah, like look at the Goodwill Bank.
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How's the Goodwill Bank going?
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Yes.
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You know, if you did the assignment that we gave this person, Elena, on our podcast, you know, to like really keep that log of the day to day.
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 What does it look like?
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And you have to think, you know, people think when they first meet someone, they're thinking so much in the present instead of, you know, like, they're like, yeah, well, you know, this person doesn't really call when they say they will, or yeah, this or that, but it's okay because there are all these other great things and, you know, they're like obsessed with that person.
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And I always say to people, like, is this the marriage you want?
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Is this what you want 15 years from now?
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Is this, do you want to worry about, like, why this person isn't calling me?
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 or are they going to be there or they forgot to do this or they said they were going to pick up the toilet paper but they didn't every time.
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They always have an excuse.
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They lie about the little things like, you know, there are those people who are like, they won't just tell you, yeah, you know what, I forgot to do that.
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 I had this experience with this couple where he was always coming up with excuses because he didn't want to take responsibility for the things.
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And they were just little lies.
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And she's like, why would you lie about these tiny little things?
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Instead of wanting to be responsible.
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Right.
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And so there was this one time where he was supposed to go to the market and they had kids and she wanted him to get organic strawberries.
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 Because she was worried about the pesticides and the little kids and he bought the regular ones and and he used to lie about it Be like, oh they were out of organic and this time he said, you know what?
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I just it totally slipped my mind.
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It totally slipped my mind I should have bought the organic ones and I didn't do it and she started crying.
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She said you told me the truth and
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 Like, all I wanted was the truth.
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I just wanted you to own it and acknowledge it and take responsibility.
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He's like, I'll go back and I'll go exchange them right now.
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She's like, no, no, no.
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It's fine.
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Like, you told me the truth.
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You forgot.
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Please don't forget next time.
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He never forgot again.
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 Wow.
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But do you see how these little things in relationships can change a dynamic?
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Yes.
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In a big way.
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Huge way.
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He never forgot again, and she trusted him.
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Yeah.
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What would you say are the biggest red flags, then, women should look for when entering a relationship?
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Well, I think it's not a gender thing.
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People, yeah.
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I think people.
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I think you look for just, how do I feel around this person?
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 Um, you know, do I, do I feel on edge?
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Is there something I, you know, I think even when people are ignoring the problems, there's a place of knowing that we all have inside of us that gets drowned out by all the noise out there, right?
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The bigger voice is like, I really want this to work out or look at, look at how great, you know, on paper this person is, or, or I feel really good about myself cause this person's a catch, you know, or whatever it is.
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Or I'm this age and I really feel like, yeah, you know, what happens if I don't,
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 If I give this up, what if I don't find somebody?
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Those are those really loud voices.
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There might be this really quiet voice that says, I don't think this person is the right person for me.
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Or, I don't really trust this person.
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Or, this person isn't really as stable as I would like.
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Or, this person drinks too much.
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Or, this person doesn't really emotionally regulate.
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Or, this person says mean things to me, and I don't like that.
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And yeah, they were drunk, but I don't like it.
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 Right.
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And be aware of that.
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Yes.
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If they continue doing this, which they probably will or may, are you okay with that?
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Right.
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Well, if you talk to them about it, and what does that look, again, the repair, and then do they change their behavior as a result of that?
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 If they don't change the behavior, then you're staying.
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Right.
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You can justify it any way you want, but you're not listening to that voice inside of you.
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So I think we all have this place of knowing it's not your friend's opinions.
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It's always like, I think your friends have all these opinions, and then we try to crowdsource.
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Oh, this guy's amazing.
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You're so lucky to have this guy in your life.
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He's a catch.
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What a great guy.
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You don't have to live that life.
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 And I think the same thing, by the way, going back to affairs, like people say, like, leave the guy.
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Like, he's trash.
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Leave him.
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And it's like, you don't have to live this person's life, and this person might have really good reasons why the affair didn't break their marriage.
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You know, so when someone had an affair, like, don't go telling 12 of your friends.
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 Like right away, like you need to process this, maybe go to a therapist, process this, but don't go telling like 12 people, and don't broadcast it, and don't go on social media about this, because you might actually find that you love this person, and wanna stay with this person, and that this person really is the right person for you, and they will never do this again, and they will not, you know, like they understand what happened.
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But telling the world, and your family, and your friends, they're never gonna support that person in your life again.
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Right, right.
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Every time you go around for the next years, you're gonna make it uncomfortable,
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 Right.
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And that's going to be rupturing the relationship in the future.
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Right.
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And what feels really good in the moment is to blame your partner.
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Now, yes, they're responsible for having the affair, but they're not necessarily responsible for all the other factors that are going into this.
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Yes.
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Interesting.
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 What are some unrealistic expectations that people should stop having?
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How long do you have, Luis?
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Well, entering a relationship, because I feel like people, not just women on men, men on women, but people have an expectation that their partner should be kind of like everything, you know, and should be perfect, and all these things.
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What are some things that they could have a standard, you know, I want my relationship to have this standard, but this expectation is unrealistic.
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 If you ask people if they have unrealistic expectations about certain things, nobody thinks they do.
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So people will say, no, no, no, no, no.
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I know that they don't have to be like, you know, the hottest person or the most this person or they make the most money or they're the most charming or funny or entertaining or whatever it is.
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I know that.
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But that's not what their behavior says, you'll find.
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 So people with unrealistic expectations are often the people who don't realize that they have them.
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People who actually have realistic expectations sometimes think they don't have realistic expectations.
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It's interesting.
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There's sort of a lack of self-awareness there.
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The unrealistic expectations have to do with
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 Maybe it's like, it could be around appearance, it could be around what the other person is going to do for them.
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When somebody isn't satisfied in their own life, they somehow think it's the other person's responsibility to make them happy, to fill the hole, to fill the gap.
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 You know, when they're having a hard time in their life, suddenly they're bored in the relationship, right?
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It's like, I don't feel good about myself and oh look, I wonder if maybe I'm with the wrong partner.
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I wonder if she's the problem.
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I wonder if he's the problem.
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 You know, I'm feeling stuck in my life.
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Oh, maybe I need a new relationship.
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As opposed to maybe there are other things that are making you feel stuck in your life.
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And this idea that I think that some of us have that we would never articulate, but that your partner's there to save you.
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 You know, save me from my damaged childhood.
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Save me from the other hurts in my life.
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Save me from these wounds.
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And when there's misattunement in the relationship, and there always will be.
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So again, I'm very, you know, suspicious of couples who say, oh no, we agree on everything.
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There will be misattunement because somebody's tired one day, somebody had a bad day, or you're just different people and you see the world differently.
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 So when there's misattunement, suddenly that person becomes, oh, you don't understand me.
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As opposed to, wait, you didn't understand that, let me explain it again.
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Let me help you understand me, because you thought this, but actually what I'm trying to say is this.
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But then people don't do that, and so they think, oh, they just sit with it, and they go, my partner never understands me.
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Every time I say something, my partner thinks this, but I've never tried to help them to understand me.
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They're supposed to magically, intuitively be telepathic.
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Read my mind.
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Read my mind.
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 Understand me in exactly the way that I need to be heard and seen and felt now in therapy We have this expression feeling felt that that's what you want You want to feel felt and it's such a great feeling when it happens, but even therapists will get it wrong You know, sometimes I will misunderstand someone but the person doesn't like yell at me about it or they don't think like I need a new therapist because we'll repair it right there in the moment and
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 but they don't do it with their partner.
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They'll go home and their partner will make the same mistake I did, and they will say, oh, I don't know if I should be with this partner, he doesn't understand me.
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And the partner's like bewildered.
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Like, I didn't even know that I didn't understand, because you never told me I didn't understand.
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So I just assumed that I was, that I understood you.
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When do you know that your partner understands you, even if they completely disagree with you?
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 When should someone know like, okay, they disagree with everything I just said, but I feel felt and they understand me at least.
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Yeah, because we say that expression feeling felt because you feel it.
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So it's not up here, it's in here.
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 It's an emotional feeling.
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I feel, okay, my partner disagrees with everything I just said, but they understand where I could be coming from if they stepped in my shoes.
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I think it has to do with respect, right?
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You feel respected in that moment.
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You feel like, and you feel loved and cared for.
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Like, you and I see this very differently, but I love you, I care for you.
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I don't agree with you.
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Mm-hmm.
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 But I respect you as a human.
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I respect you as a person.
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I'm not gonna cast aspersions on your character because of this.
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I can accept and acknowledge the separateness of us as two different human beings.
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And when people get really enmeshed, they have a real problem with that.
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Someone will say, my friend did this, can you believe that my friend did this?
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And her partner will say,
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 Yeah, well, but I can kind of see, because you also did this.
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And she's like, how can you take her side?
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I'm not taking her side.
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I'm just giving you a perspective.
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I see it a little bit differently.
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I can see why you felt the way, I can see why you feel hurt.
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I can see both and.
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And if you can't accept the both and about yourself and your partner,
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 then you're gonna end up feeling very alone.
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So it's almost like you need to be flexible in their communication as well, and them not siding with you on everything, but saying, okay, I understand where you're coming from, and I see this perspective, I just see it differently.
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Yeah.
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So having the flexibility to be okay with that also.
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Like, I can hold both.
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You can hold both, and I can hold both, and we care deeply about each other, and we have each other's backs, which doesn't necessarily mean we agree, we have the same perspective on every single thing.
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 Yeah.
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The beginning of this year, I had...
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 I started seeing a therapist in a previous relationship.
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And the therapist had me just working on my own healing stuff.
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That's like healing stuff that I was going through.
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And she had me put a photo of myself around five or six years old on my phone so I see it.
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So I still have this up where I just constantly remind myself like you're safe, you're okay, I got your back, we're healing together, things like that.
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It's been a beautiful journey for me to work on inner child healing and just kind of the memories of the past.
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 And I'm curious about just like the consistency of healing in a relationship.
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And, because I heard you say that like, it's hard to fully heal alone.
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We almost need a mirror to be able to practice and integrate this, is what I think I heard you say, right?
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It's like, you need to have someone where you can practice it coming up.
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If you're in a vacuum, you're not going to be triggered, right?
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It's like, can you show up differently in the future and not repeat the past?
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 what is the thing people usually need to heal?
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Is it something from childhood?
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Is it something from previous relationship?
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Is it their whole life?
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It can be anything from, you know, there's different, we use the word trauma a lot and people say, oh, you know, trauma is, trauma is something big, like someone died in a car crash or you were in the war or, you know, systemic racism, right?
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All traumas that people accept as trauma.
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 Think about the daily trauma.
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The little t's.
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The little t's but they're big t's because the trauma might have happened to you once like you got in this bad accident and you're traumatized by that or whatever it might be.
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The dailyness of a parent saying, you're stupid.
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What's wrong with you?
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You're so stupid.
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Right?
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We had someone on our podcast like that.
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 And he, you know, we really like got him through that in that hour of going through a way to think about it differently.
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And he needed to understand, like, this was real trauma.
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And he knew that, right?
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He knew that, but he kind of felt almost like, nah, it's not really that bad.
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Right, right, right.
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But, you know, just like, you're worthless, you're stupid, what's wrong with you?
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All those things.
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And think about the number of times that that happened if you add all those up.
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 I mean, that's trauma.
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 So when you talk about the inner child, and I love what your therapist had you do, it's really important that we are able now, we weren't then able to be that adult for our inner child, but now we are.
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So don't expect your partner to be that, that you have to be that for yourself.
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And then your partner is there because you're not in that toxic environment anymore.
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So it makes it safe for you.
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It makes it safe for you as the adult, it makes it safe for you as the child.
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 And at any given moment, by the way, a different age of us will be exposed.
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So like, you know, you go home for Thanksgiving, you're 12, you know, with your siblings or whatever it is, right?
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You know, something happens with your partner that just feels very similar to you of some feeling you had when you were five.
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You're five.
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You're going to act like you're five.
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You know, there are times when you act your age.
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 So you don't know, like, so I always say to people, like, when couples are getting added in couples therapy, I'm like, how old are you right now?
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 I will say that to them and they'll step back for a second and go, oh, I know exactly how old I am.
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I'm eight.
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I'm 16.
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Ooh.
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So you mean how old are you emotionally reacting?
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Yes, yes, yes.
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Right now.
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Right now.
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Physically.
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Yes.
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That's what I meant.
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So they're, they're, they're doing something.
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Something's happening for them and they're not able to kind of, I can see them regressing and their partner's getting really frustrated and you're watching this happen.
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And I just say to them, how old are you right now?
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 And if they can just step back and they have so much compassion for that kid that they are at eight or 12 or 16 or whatever they are, and so does their partner, by the way.
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When their partner says, oh, you look like a grown man, right?
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You look like a grown man.
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But that eight-year-old, and they don't mean it in a pejorative way.
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They don't mean it.
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They're not judging their partner.
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They become really compassionate, like, oh.
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 that eight-year-old, and they move toward their partner.
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Like, I can see that.
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So the partner isn't healing the eight-year-old, but the partner is creating this environment that lets the adult do the work for the eight-year-old there.
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 What should the adult be saying or doing for the younger version of themselves that is having an emotional human experience that is not their age in this moment?
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What's the conversation or the?
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It's exactly what they wished at age eight that
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 that someone would have said to them.
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We all know what that is.
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We all know what we wanted to hear because as a kid you fantasize about it.
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You look at other people's parents and you say, oh, that interaction.
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You can see what you would like it to look like.
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Which my parents were like that.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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 So saying that out loud internally to your 8, 12, 16-year-old self.
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Right, right.
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And being really kind.
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Have you ever noticed how unkind we can be to ourselves?
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My entire childhood was pretty much unkind to myself.
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Right.
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But we carry that into our adulthoods.
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 I had this patient who was like so self-critical and she did not realize it.
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And you have to realize, and I said to her this, that the person we talk to most in the course of our lives is ourselves.
0
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And what we say to ourselves isn't always kind or true or useful.
0
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I say that all the time to people.
0
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I will say that until I'm blue in the face because people don't get it until they try this exercise, which is what I had her do.
0
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I said, I want you to write down everything you say to yourself over the course of a few days.
0
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And then when you come back next week, we're gonna talk about it.
0
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 And so she did the assignment.
0
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She was very skeptical.
0
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She's like, I'm not that.
0
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I'm not that.
0
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I'm not like, not that.
0
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Like every thought that comes to you.
0
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Yeah.
0
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Like everything.
0
SPEAKER_00
Like when you hear, it's like this radio station is playing in the background that you think you're not hearing because it's just like playing in the background or like a TV show that you have on in the background.
0
SPEAKER_00
Right.
0
SPEAKER_00
And you're like, I'm not really paying attention to it.
0
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I'm doing other things.
0
SPEAKER_00
But no, you hear it.
0
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 And so she came back and she starts to read this and she said I can't even read this I am such a bully to myself Wow and they were little things she would do in the course of a day like she was typing an email and she made a typo and the voice in her head said you're so stupid like it was spontaneous and she would not have paid attention to that before like she didn't know she was saying that or she passed her reflection in a mirror and she said God you look terrible mmm
0
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 Now, if your friend or someone you cared about made that typo or looked however she looked that day, you would not truly think that person is stupid or that they look terrible.
0
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You'd think like, oh, you know, like they made a typo.
0
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It's like there's no emotional generosity toward oneself.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
0
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So what should we be doing instead?
0
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And so it's starting to notice how do you talk to yourself?
0
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 You know, like whose voice is that?
0
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It's not yours.
0
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We are not born with that voice.
0
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So that voice came from people who raised you.
0
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It came from the culture.
0
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It came from, um, you know, the people around you.
0
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It came from whatever we're being told.
0
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It's external is the point.
0
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It's external to you.
0
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It is not of you.
0
SPEAKER_00
So we need to listen to that voice inside of us that is of us.
0
SPEAKER_00
 And we will be so much kinder, not only to ourselves, but to other people, because as we always know, like the biggest bullies are, you know, twice as mean to themselves.
0
SPEAKER_01
Right.
0
SPEAKER_00
So when you think about like the environment, I talked about the biosphere before, like the, the ecosystem in your relationship, that's the ecosystem in your home.
0
SPEAKER_00
We saw during COVID, right.
0
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Where everybody was like in the same contained space.
0
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 And we were all worried about the contagion of the virus.
0
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And I said to people, I want you to look at the contagion of mood.
0
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Look at the contagion of anxiety.
0
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If someone is anxious or someone's in a crabby mood or someone is being unkind, everybody's going to be crabby or anxious or unkind.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
0
SPEAKER_00
Right?
0
SPEAKER_00
Because it's so contagious.
0
SPEAKER_02
So when a partner is coming from that space of angry, upset, or negative mood, what
0
SPEAKER_02
 should be done in order to try to shift that energy without...
0
SPEAKER_02
 rushing them along but without allowing it to be going on for so long that it's just like sucking up all the air and the energy of the atmosphere, what should happen next?
0
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it depends what they're going through.
0
SPEAKER_00
If they're going through something that's kind of like they're grieving something or there's a loss, the worst thing you can do is rush their wellness.
0
SPEAKER_00
We call that actually rushed wellness, where you are trying to kind of, oh, well, it's been a year, shouldn't you be over this?
0
SPEAKER_00
It's like, but the person's still dead.
0
SPEAKER_00
 It's like, what does that even mean?
0
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So how are they grieving?
0
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What does their grieving process look like?
0
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What kind of support are they getting?
0
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Are they able to talk about it?
0
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Do they have a therapist?
0
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Do they have a grief group?
0
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What are they doing in their lives to go through this process?
0
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How can you support them in it?
0
SPEAKER_00
So there's that.
0
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But I think if people are just being crabby or they're just being unkind because
0
SPEAKER_00
 they're worried about a promotion at work, or someone, their brother said something mean to them, or whatever happened, and they take it out on you.
0
SPEAKER_00
That's when you've gotta say, wait a minute, what's going on here?
0
SPEAKER_00
Let's talk about what you're upset about.
0
SPEAKER_00
 before it gets to that point.
0
SPEAKER_00
And if someone's really anxious all the time, it's like, what are you doing to, let's talk about the anxiety in the household, because it's really contagious.
0
SPEAKER_00
I can support you in certain ways, but you might need to get a different kind of support.
0
SPEAKER_00
Maybe it's medication, maybe it's a therapist, maybe it's, why don't you explore some options?
0
SPEAKER_02
 If someone is bringing in this contagious energy from a previous relationship, they're recalling events from the previous relationship, they're talking about the previous relationship, they're in fear on things that happened, they don't want it to reoccur in this current relationship.
0
SPEAKER_02
 How important is it to let the past be in the past and not bring it up?
0
SPEAKER_02
Or how do we not ruin the current relationship by talking about the past relationships?
0
SPEAKER_02
What is that balance?
0
SPEAKER_02
It's like, well, here's what has happened in my previous relationships, but not talking about it all the time.
0
SPEAKER_00
 Right?
0
SPEAKER_00
So that's called punishing your partner for someone else's crimes.
0
SPEAKER_00
You don't want to punish your partner for someone else's crimes.
0
SPEAKER_00
So your other partner, previous partner, treated you a certain way, and then you don't trust your partner.
0
SPEAKER_00
You know, you're like, why are you looking through my phone?
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh, well, because in my last relationship, this happened.
0
SPEAKER_00
And so I want to make sure it's not going to happen to me again.
0
SPEAKER_00
But I didn't do that to you, right?
0
SPEAKER_00
And I don't like people looking through my phone.
0
SPEAKER_00
 If there's a difference between secrecy and privacy, we all need privacy in relationships.
0
SPEAKER_00
We all need privacy.
0
SPEAKER_00
So secrecy is something like, Carl Jung called secrets, it was like emotional poison or something like that.
0
SPEAKER_00
It's a poison when you keep secrets.
0
SPEAKER_00
That's different from privacy.
0
SPEAKER_00
Privacy is we're allowed to think things and feel things
0
SPEAKER_00
 We don't need to share every thought or feeling that comes across our frontal lobes.
0
SPEAKER_00
Or anywhere in our brain or in our heart.
0
SPEAKER_00
We don't need to share everything.
0
SPEAKER_00
So it's not like you have an x-ray of the other person.
0
SPEAKER_00
 So in this relationship that I'm talking about, she was like, but you know that I have these trust issues.
0
SPEAKER_00
And he said, yeah, but I'm not doing anything to break your trust.
0
SPEAKER_00
And by the way, let's redefine trust.
0
SPEAKER_00
So a really good redefinition of trust.
0
SPEAKER_00
 is that you are okay with what you don't know.
0
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That you feel safe with what you don't know.
0
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Then you really trust someone.
0
SPEAKER_00
If you can feel safe with what you don't know, that's trust.
0
SPEAKER_00
What she was confusing was she was saying, I will trust you if I know everything.
0
SPEAKER_00
No, no, no, no.
0
SPEAKER_00
Trust is going to be if you don't know everything and you feel safe.
0
SPEAKER_02
 Yes.
0
SPEAKER_02
How does someone get to that place where they have no reason to mistrust someone?
0
SPEAKER_02
You know, they're, everything they say they're doing, they're backing up, you know, maybe you checked their phone cause you thought something and then you didn't see it and everything was fine.
0
SPEAKER_02
Like, how do you get to a place of just accepting their word and trusting them?
0
SPEAKER_00
 Right?
0
SPEAKER_00
So it's within reason.
0
SPEAKER_00
So if someone says, you know what, I have a sensitivity around if I text you and I don't hear back for, you know, five hours, um, and I know, and you're in town and you're at work and things are normal or whatever, right?
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I know you keep your phone by you all the time.
0
SPEAKER_00
That's going to make, that's going to trigger me.
0
SPEAKER_00
And so then you want to make sure that you respond to the person in a timely manner, but that doesn't mean like you have 30 seconds.
0
SPEAKER_00
 So it has to be reasonable, right?
0
SPEAKER_00
You have 30 seconds or else I'm going to like, you know, I'm after the races.
0
SPEAKER_00
Um, you know, those kinds of things.
0
SPEAKER_00
What, what does it mean?
0
SPEAKER_00
What is, what do you mutually agree on?
0
SPEAKER_00
Like, how often do we need to be in contact?
0
SPEAKER_00
What does it mean to be in contact?
0
SPEAKER_00
Um, and, and what feels good to both of us, because it's not going to work if it doesn't feel good for both of you.
0
SPEAKER_02
It's only good for one.
0
SPEAKER_02
And the other person feels like, ah, I'm constantly having to do something I don't want to do.
0
SPEAKER_02
That's not good.
0
SPEAKER_00
 And then what the person does is they become untrustworthy because they don't want to report in.
0
SPEAKER_00
And so then they start hiding things just because they weren't given enough space.
0
SPEAKER_00
It's kind of like, I use this analogy with parenting, but I think it works in relationships too, which is the aquarium.
0
SPEAKER_00
So it's like, you don't want to be so confined that you feel like you're in a fishbowl, but you don't want the boundaries to be so loose that you're like in the ocean.
0
SPEAKER_00
You want to be in an aquarium with your partner, which is that like, we're in a safe contained space.
0
SPEAKER_00
 but we both have enough room to swim around.
0
SPEAKER_02
I've got some darkness over here.
0
SPEAKER_02
I can just chill and I can go with it.
0
SPEAKER_02
I'm still in the bubble but let me just be alone for a minute.
0
SPEAKER_02
So the difference between secrecy and privacy in a relationship
0
SPEAKER_00
 what's what do we need and should everyone have access to someone's passwords and phones and at all the time or I mean you know I think that people have to agree again but I think this idea that you know like you can look at my phone whenever you want will feel
2
SPEAKER_01
 It was like what I said before I felt like he had he had like, you know grabbed his heart and like extended it to her and said I feel lonely Right like that you can you that if your partner is going to give you something think of it as like something really Fragile and delicate like, you know when you mail things that says like fragile like be very careful.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes, like it's really delicate and
2
SPEAKER_01
 You have to be really gentle.
2
SPEAKER_01
Be really gentle.
2
SPEAKER_01
When your partner is handing you something delicate, be really, really gentle.
2
SPEAKER_01
Or you can bet that there's going to be a lot of loneliness in that relationship because people are going to go into their own silos.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Man, this is so good.
2
SPEAKER_00
So the keys to a thriving relationship, kindness, being gentle when there's vulnerabilities.
2
SPEAKER_00
Is there anything else you would add there?
2
SPEAKER_00
Or if you can do those two things, that's a pretty good relationship.
2
SPEAKER_01
And take care of your own healing.
2
SPEAKER_01
Do the work.
2
SPEAKER_01
Don't expect someone else to do it for you.
2
SPEAKER_01
Do the work and bring that work to the relationship.
2
SPEAKER_00
I love this.
2
SPEAKER_00
I love this.
2
SPEAKER_00
 You've got an amazing book, maybe you should talk to someone.
2
SPEAKER_00
I feel like this is such a game changer for so many people, so make sure you guys pick up a copy of this book.
2
SPEAKER_00
You also have a workbook, same title, maybe you should talk to someone, workbook.
2
SPEAKER_01
The workbook, it's called How Changing Your Story Can Change Your Life, and it takes people through the process of rewriting their story and getting a much more accurate version of their story.
2
SPEAKER_00
Which is a game changer for your healing process to rewrite the story of the past, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
 Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
And even the faulty narratives that we carry around in the present.
2
SPEAKER_01
We carry around all these faulty narratives.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, I'm unlovable.
2
SPEAKER_01
I can't trust anyone.
2
SPEAKER_01
Nothing will ever work out for me.
2
SPEAKER_01
How do you rewrite those narratives?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so this workbook... The workbook takes you through a step-by-step process of doing that.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's based on, maybe you should talk to someone in the book, but it's also based on my TED Talk, which is about changing your story.
2
SPEAKER_01
 can change your life.
2
SPEAKER_01
And, you know, everybody said, well, maybe you should talk to someone, came out, they said, I learned so much from the book, but I wanna be, like, I want a guide to do that.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I put together this guide for everybody who has been asking for it, and I really wanted to give people the experience of what I do with people in the therapy room, how I help them edit their stories.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Where can we get that, the workbook?
2
SPEAKER_01
Wherever you buy, Amazon, independent bookstores, wherever you get your books.
2
SPEAKER_00
 It's all there.
2
SPEAKER_00
And where's the, and everything, uh, the podcast, everything's on your website too.
2
SPEAKER_01
The podcast is called Dear Therapist.
2
SPEAKER_01
So you can listen on Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_01
Um,
2
SPEAKER_00
 It's a great podcast, and Guy is your co-host in there.
2
SPEAKER_00
He's been on the show as well.
2
SPEAKER_00
He's amazing, so you guys have a great banter there.
2
SPEAKER_00
So Dear Therapist, the workbook.
2
SPEAKER_00
You're also on Instagram.
2
SPEAKER_00
I see you over on Instagram, all your content as well.
2
SPEAKER_00
We'll link up that, everything in the show notes, the TED Talk.
2
SPEAKER_00
 This is amazing.
2
SPEAKER_00
I want people to, you might need to go back to this conversation and take some notes and start really implementing some of these things.
2
SPEAKER_00
So hopefully this has been a helpful resource for people.
2
SPEAKER_00
I appreciate you sharing.
2
SPEAKER_00
How else can we be a support to you?
2
SPEAKER_00
What else can we do to take action on?
2
SPEAKER_00
So let's get the workbook, get it for you and your partner.
2
SPEAKER_00
Get this book, listen to the podcast.
2
SPEAKER_00
What else can we do?
2
SPEAKER_01
 Yeah, I would say like the best thing that people can do is to just, you know, benefit from all of this is to actually use it in their own lives.
2
SPEAKER_01
I feel like, you know, emotional health is not just a thing that happens between you and yourself or you and a partner, but on a societal level, if we could all do these things, we would live in a very different kind of world.
2
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
 I love this, Lori.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm so grateful for you for coming back on and sharing this wisdom.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I acknowledge you for showing up and doing the work with people.
2
SPEAKER_00
You're in the work on a consistent basis.
2
SPEAKER_00
You're hearing these stories.
2
SPEAKER_00
You're getting feedback by giving exercises.
2
SPEAKER_00
You're just a wealth of information and knowledge.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I acknowledge you for showing up and making tools for us, like the book and the workbook and the podcast.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Because this stuff is messy for a lot of people.
2
SPEAKER_00
Really messy.
2
SPEAKER_01
It is.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that's why, you know, I feel like in the therapy room, you work with one person or two people or whatever it is.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I really wanted to make this accessible to everyone.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that's why I'm writing these books and doing the podcast and TED Talk and all of that and having these conversations with you.
2
SPEAKER_01
 Because I think that people, you know, nobody did this for people, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Like growing up, like we don't, that's not what we do.
2
SPEAKER_01
We learn all these subjects in school, but we don't learn about emotional health.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I really want to make it accessible for people and valuable for people.
2
SPEAKER_00
I love it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Lori.
2
SPEAKER_00
 I asked you this question before, but I'm curious again, your three truths.
2
SPEAKER_00
So imagine it's your last day on Earth.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you've accomplished all of your dreams and written lots of books and created more and more content, but for whatever reason, no one has access to your content anymore.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's gotta go somewhere else.
2
SPEAKER_00
Your books, this podcast, everything, it's all gone for whatever reason.
2
SPEAKER_00
Hypothetical.
2
SPEAKER_00
 But you get to leave behind three lessons to the world or what I would call three truths.
2
SPEAKER_00
And this is all we would have to kind of have access to your content.
2
SPEAKER_00
What would you say would be those three truths for you?
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, that's really hard on the spot.
2
SPEAKER_01
I would say the first one is you are enough.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think that people forget that, that you can be messy and fallible and imperfect and all of those things.
2
SPEAKER_01
But you are enough.
2
SPEAKER_01
Your essence is enough.
2
SPEAKER_01
I would say
2
SPEAKER_01
 If you, the thing about if a fight breaks out in a bar, in every bar you're going to, maybe it's you, I would say, your blind spots are important to shine a light on.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's really important to shine a light on your blind spots.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I would say, be kind to yourself.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because then you will be kind to others.
2
SPEAKER_00
 I've heard this in the past, I can't remember who, but it's kind of in the personal development talk.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's like what's inside of you comes out.
2
SPEAKER_00
So if there's whatever, you get cut off in the car in front of you,
2
SPEAKER_00
 If you're reactive and angry, there's anger inside of you.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you're like, okay, he's probably just having a bad day and smile, or she's having a bad day, then there's kindness inside of you.
2
SPEAKER_00
So it's like whatever's inside of you comes out.
2
SPEAKER_00
So be aware of what's coming out of you and how you're reacting to situations.
2
SPEAKER_00
That can be a blind spot too, so.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right, and what we were saying before about like that biosphere that, you know, if you yell at that person then, what are you putting into, what fumes are you putting out into the world that other people are gonna be breathing, and you're breathing them too.
2
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Final question, what's your definition of greatness?
2
SPEAKER_01
I think it's very different from our culture's definition of greatness.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think greatness is like a feeling of peace.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think it's a feeling of peace, but not in a kind of a way just for you, but I think like making peace for other people in the world.
2
SPEAKER_01
That you're offering peace, that you're creating a way for people to find peace, that you act, you navigate through the world in a way that creates peace for other people.
2
SPEAKER_00
 There you go.
2
SPEAKER_00
Lori, thanks so much for being here.
2
SPEAKER_00
Appreciate it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Thank you so much again for the conversation.
2
SPEAKER_00
Amazing.
2
SPEAKER_00
 I really love hearing feedback from you guys, so share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most.
2
SPEAKER_00
And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.
2
SPEAKER_00
And now it's time to go out there and do something great.