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This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.
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Look at how fast, we re almost halfway through the year.
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Crazy, yeah.
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Are you proud of what you ve done in 2024 so far?
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I mean, you always want to do more, right?
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Life goes so fast, David.
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It s important to take a moment to celebrate your wins, make adjustments for the rest of the year.
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Listen, therapy is the way to go.
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I did it for a while.
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And I think the thing that slowed me down was what they, is driving to Santa Monica in traffic once or twice a week.
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This is online.
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It s a great idea.
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Very convenient.
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It helps you.
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You ve got coping skills, how to set boundaries.
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I mean, there s so many things you can do here to be a better version of yourself.
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You can probably always sharpen it.
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Yeah, I mean, I had a therapist in Portland and I would commute and that was a pain.
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That s a long drive.
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I know it was 1300 miles one way, but you know, it s good therapist.
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But yeah, this one you can mix and match and your thoughts kind of control you and you want to master them.
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That s betterhelp, H-E-L-P.com slash F-O-T-W.
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This next character was a thrill for me to have on the podcast, Mr. William Shatner.
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We did this one a while back.
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So we do talk about him going in outer space, which was an extraordinary to hear it firsthand.
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And he hosted SNL, like my eighth show.
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And he was, I ve mentioned before, one of the funniest hosts ever.
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And so we talk all about that.
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And you can talk to this too.
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The other thing about it is he s so philosophical.
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He s incredibly curious.
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And I m still in awe of his brain.
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And when you see him, it s like, what?
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He s 91 or something.
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Universally liked kind of guy, super famous.
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Everyone knows who he is.
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He has such a great life, great career.
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And he always, like you said, curious.
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He s always trying new things.
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He got involved in space.
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We talked about that.
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We had done this a little while ago.
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So if some things, you know, I talk about- Did you talk about UFOs?
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Oh, I might ve asked him about that.
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Or you said you believed in them.
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I do get into them.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And then he wanted to really get really into that.
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Why?
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Because when we take this- Don t you believe in them?
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Roswell just happened.
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That was in 1947.
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So it was a while ago.
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But yeah, Thriller album we talk about, because it just came out.
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Mike Tyson bit that dude s ear.
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Yeah, we did a huge chunk on Hubert Humphrey.
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But some of them get left, and I just found this one in the glove compartment.
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I m like, guys, we never even aired this one.
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So Shatner, we had a great time with.
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You could talk to him.
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I would talk to him every week if we could.
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He s just a blast.
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Yeah, Bill Shatner to his friends, Billy Shatner or BS BB.
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If you see DiCaprio, do you call him Leo or do you call him?
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I call him Cap.
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What s up, cap?
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I go, hey, no cap.
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I m a goddamn, I m a goddamn has-been.
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What d that guy say to you?
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Says I gotta go to Italy and make a town western.
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I can think of worse things than that.
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I was doing Brad Pitt and Leonardo DiCaprio.
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I don t normally do little sketches on this podcast.
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It s not what we re about.
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No, we ll do them soon though.
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Come on.
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Keep your eyes peeled.
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All right, so.
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William Shatner, enjoy this one.
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What a fun, fun guest he was.
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Billy Shat.
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His pants.
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You both are vying for great hair.
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It s all an illusion.
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My skull is like a game of risk.
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There s only so many soldiers in so much territory.
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There s a lot of product, fluffing.
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I faint.
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And a lot of eruptions.
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Eruptions, yes.
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I erupt often.
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Speaking of eruptions, hey, how are you, Bill?
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It s so nice to see you.
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You guys got a thing going here.
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Yeah, yeah, we do.
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Well, we re discovering in real time.
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We can think of anyone we want to talk to.
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And you were literally the first person that popped into my head.
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No, I m not kidding.
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I m not kidding.
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You could have had Trump.
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president of vice.
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You know, let me tell you something.
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We re doing very good.
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Excuse me.
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Excuse me.
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You did a terrific thing.
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I wouldn t go up, you know, base.
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Nobody cares.
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Listen to me.
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We re doing very well.
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We re doing terrific.
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Many people are saying, excuse me, excuse me.
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We re not going to, what do you do when he does that?
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I don t know.
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Usually we re at dinner and I let him go because it cracks my own amusement, but no, seriously, William Shatner.
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Well, wait a minute.
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Seriously.
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Are you in your bedroom?
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One of my bedrooms.
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Are you wearing pajamas?
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I m doing a Jeffrey Toobin.
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Let s put it that way.
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He literally rolled out of bed.
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It s called doing a Toobin.
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Or a single.
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He could have pleasured himself before, after the Zoom.
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He just couldn t.
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He really reach in and do it.
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I didn t see it.
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I didn t want to watch it.
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Dana, paint the picture.
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It was literally like this, in between Zooms, he s standing, walking around, and then he starts and everyone s like, what?
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He reaches down.
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No, the camera tilts down.
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He s already kind of doing it.
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Right.
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And he gets caught for a camera tilts down like that.
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Yeah, I think so.
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I m sure that s pretty.
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Yes.
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Here s both hands.
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You seriously.
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He actually he tilted the camera down so you would see what he was doing.
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Yeah, and then three months later there was a grace period he was talking about global economics, but all I thought of was the tubing.
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Did this figure of speech, when you were dating in the 1950s or 40s, this figure of speech, Bill, when did this come up to a woman?
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He s a very nice guy,
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but he can t be intelligent.
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He s a he s a but he can t keep it in his pants.
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When did that phrase come in?
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He can t keep it in his pants.
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That came around June the 30th, 1962.
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When your teacher said it to you, to your parents.
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But she was referring to a pencil I was trying to steal, and I put it in my pocket.
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Are we going to start recording, or are we?
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No, we re always recording.
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We re almost done.
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Shoot the rehearsal.
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Oh, happy hour came quickly.
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I thought of a question I wanted to ask you guys.
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Yeah.
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I have 38 for you, but go ahead.
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All right.
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Well, this will be the 1A.
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You two are very funny guys.
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Your reputation, stand up, series, you re very funny people naturally, professionally.
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Is it an onus, is it onerous for you to have a conversation like this, you re expected to be funny?
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Not in this particular session, no, but in life sometimes.
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You re going to do an hour.
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We re going to do an hour.
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Right.
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We re going to talk and we re going to schmooze and we re going to.
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Yeah.
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Do you feel it like incumbent upon you to be amusing?
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Are your reputations at stake because you re known to be amusing or funny, so you got to be funny now?
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Well, since this is, quote unquote, kind of behind the scenes,
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We don t have as much of the allegiance to jokes per moment.
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Like, I m very interested in your whole life.
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So I like that we re gonna work on both frequencies, but- And I m not, so it kind of cancels it out.
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It really does.
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The question, who do I- Who do you play to?
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Who s the most appealing, right, exactly.
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I think you d play, when I heard about this, because Dana did mention you early on, we were gonna say, let s talk to people from SNL or SNL related.
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music act, cast member, host, whatever, just some wispy connection.
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And then we can talk about anything also, but we ll touch on it.
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And then Dana put you on this first list of like, and I was like, oh, cool.
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And then I said, I don t know him.
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I almost saw you the other night, but I don t know him, but that s someone that is a guy that has so many things over his life that you can keep asking stuff about that you ve been asked a million times.
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We try not to do that.
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We try to get,
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No, I did a deep dive on your new album, which is... Have you heard it?
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It s incredible.
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Bill, the lyrics, the one Tuffy about being
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Jewish in the 19 whatever and getting bullied and how you had to be a badass.
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I think because you re not reinterpreting a space odyssey or, or, or, you know, rocket man, that this is bio autobiographical in the sense.
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I know you had someone working with you, but listening to you and your stories, the whole album was autobiographical.
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That s a, that was,
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That was the point, I guess.
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The whole thing is mystical in the way it came together.
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And also there is an addendum to it that I could talk to you about.
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I would like to know right now.
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Yeah, well, OK, so I did I did this album called Bill.
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And the thought was, well, let me just sketch it in.
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It just came out.
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I mean, right.
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It s very nice.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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It s been about a month.
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I became friendly with a
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A guy doesn t write for a living who is an executive.
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I don t quite remember the circumstances, but it turns out we started meeting at a Chinese restaurant of which you will know, so I won t say its name, but a weird Chinese restaurant whose main menu was duck.
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Like, oh, Chinese sounds like an old joke.
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Right.
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To China, to Chinese men with a duck.
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You can t do those jokes anymore.
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So we it became a routine.
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Every time you came in from New York, he d call Sam here and we d go to the Chinese to have duck and we became the best of friends.
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There s quite a difference in our ages.
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Mm hmm.
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But we have so much in common, including people and people we know, people we don t know in the work.
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And we just became inordinately friendly.
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It was just a lovely thing that was happening.
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And then one day he brought a friend of his along to dinner to have duck.
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And this friend was a guy he was friendly with in university, and they had a musical group together.
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And this guy, whose name is Dan Miller, went on to do They Might Be Giants, and he s won all kinds of awards.
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And Rob, the poet, went on to do, not to be an entertainer, but to be an executive.
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So now Dan, the musician, says to us, why don t we write an album?
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Oh, OK, let s write an album.
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And one of the two of them said, let s make it about Bill.
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And Bill said, oh, OK, let s make it about me.
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Because I ve written several books about my- Yeah, Bill said.
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So I ve written several stories about things that have happened to me, and they became books.
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So we took some of the incidences that went through my life, like the one that comes to mind that is most succinct.
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would be, I m leaving home.
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I ve graduated from the University of Montreal, and I ve been an actor since I was very young in Montreal, but now I m going to the Mecca of Canada, Toronto.
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I m on my way to Toronto, I m leaving home.
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And I m crossing a bridge, probably across the St.
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Lawrence River.
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And I m driving a little cheap car.
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My father lent me a couple of hundred dollars, and I bought a Morris Minor, and it s falling apart, but it s my conveyance.
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And I ve got everything I own in the car, and I m driving across this bridge, and coming at me is an 18-wheeler.
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Oh my God, and that 18-wheeler is pushing this volume of air, and the air almost pushes me over the bridge, and I almost go over the bridge, and all my belongings and me, I d have died, and nobody would have known that I ever existed.
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But I exist, and I cross the bridge.
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And the song is about
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we re always crossing a bridge, and we re always facing 18 wheelers coming at us.
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So the song, although ostensibly about me, is generalized, is a more general appeal.
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And that s what we ve done with all the songs on Bill.
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Now, the next part of this conversation, or this soliloquy, is I m in New York City,
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Bill has been released.
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It s gotten phenomenal reviews.
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Bill has been released.
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The three of us are having dinner.
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I m on my way.
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This is Sunday night.
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And on Monday morning, I m on my way to the desert to go up in the air.
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And we said, let s write a song about space.
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So we start sketching out, you know, yeah, then, and then what s his name, said a little blue dot.
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And then we go in again, and we figure out what it s like, and we kind of sketch out the song.
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When I come down from space, having been in actuality in space, I call Rob.
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I said, Rob, you remember the dinner we had last week?
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Yeah.
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Everything we talked about space.
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Yeah.
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Everything we said that space is going to be like, forget about it has nothing to do with it.
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And we ve written a song of what actually I felt that we ve got a monumental song.
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Is that so far from the moon or this is a new song now?
1
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Yeah.
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So far from the moon was is on bill.
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And it s kind of bill.
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And this is hopefully the next album.
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Well, I was so, just to go to that, I was driving down the 101 from Santa Anaz and you, it was landing and you came out.
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And of course, like everyone has told you, first of all, how articulate you were, because I looked at the Wikipedia page, you re not 22, 23, 24 years of age.
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I felt like you were so present.
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And then what you said was so emotional and the world has talked about it.
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How does it feel now, it s been a few weeks later, that you spontaneously came out of there and you talked about that thin blue line shot into outer space, the whole world s in tears, and this happens to you now?
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I mean, it s still a little surreal.
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What you re saying is really, to me, is fascinating.
1
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Two years ago,
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a young producer who produced Better Late Than Never, a series that went on, went around the world with some great guys.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it was very successful, but it was too expensive.
1
SPEAKER_01
The network canceled after two years.
1
SPEAKER_01
So this guy, Jason Ehrlich, was the producer on it.
1
SPEAKER_01
So he says to me one day, you know, Blue Origin is going to send a spaceship up there and they re going to get passengers.
1
SPEAKER_01
You should go.
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And I said, Jason, nobody.
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Why would I want to go?
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I don t need to go.
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I don t need to go.
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I ve got shit to do.
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Yeah, exactly.
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I got I got interviews to make.
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He goes, it s 12 minutes.
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You re like, OK, everyone s got 12 somewhere.
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So he says, no, they we really, really would.
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So he calls Seattle, calls them and they say, oh, great idea.
1
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Come on up.
1
SPEAKER_01
So we fly up to Seattle and we enter the lobby of
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of Amazon, which is a giant room filled with Star Trek paraphernalia.
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SPEAKER_01
Oh, wow.
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SPEAKER_01
Unbelievable number.
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SPEAKER_01
The spaceship itself, the Enterprise itself, is in a big glass globe, and people flock there.
1
SPEAKER_01
And there comes Jeff Bezos.
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SPEAKER_01
Hey, Jeff!
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And we take pictures around the Enterprise.
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Then we sit down at a table, and they say, oh, yeah, that s a really cool idea.
1
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So we leave Seattle thinking, hmm,
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And I m thinking, well, I suppose, you know, go up into space.
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COVID hits, a year goes by and nothing happens.
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And then somewhere about six months ago, they called and they said, you know, Jeff is going to go up.
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Uh, that s all we hear.
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So, uh, Jason Ehrlich says, well, maybe Jeff will pick you to be as, uh, I don t know.
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Sadie Hawkins, a lovely lady.
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And he picks a very young guy and that those, so now they go up.
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And I said to Jason, you see, nobody cares about me.
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Nobody cares about it.
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So now they announced the second vehicle is going to go up and Jason s
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And I said, listen, I select the vice president, you know, they want the president.
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The president went up, the vice president never appears, you know, I m not going to go, I don t need to go too much trouble out in the desert.
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They call, Shadner, would you like to go?
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I m thinking, you know, up in space.
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I like that.
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SPEAKER_01
I like it.
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SPEAKER_00
Wait, let s just watch this.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
No, no pilots.
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SPEAKER_00
We don t.
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SPEAKER_01
You don t even press a button like a ride.
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SPEAKER_01
Maybe they need a pilot.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s right.
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SPEAKER_01
You actually you were trying to take over.
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I could give voice command.
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I can t believe I agree to go based on the thrill of going up purely and only.
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Yeah.
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Do my mind.
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Nobody s going to pay any attention.
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SPEAKER_01
They weren t going to pay any attention to begin with.
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SPEAKER_01
Second shot.
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Forget about it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Just.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, no, it was all I heard about is going into space.
1
SPEAKER_00
It was so big.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, who who knew?
1
SPEAKER_00
I could have predicted it.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I know from your point of view, why would I call it if I had called you, if you just said, call me, I ll tell you what it s like.
1
SPEAKER_01
But no, you kept your silence.
1
SPEAKER_01
And what and what did I know?
1
SPEAKER_00
I used to run a PR firm and it was a whole
2
SPEAKER_03
Did you run?
2
SPEAKER_03
But if the no answer.
2
SPEAKER_03
But I was a bye bye guy.
2
SPEAKER_03
They could have said it would have made sense.
2
SPEAKER_03
I go, do you want the bye bye guy?
2
SPEAKER_03
And I d be like, bye bye, bye bye.
2
SPEAKER_03
And I go up in the rocket.
2
SPEAKER_03
But no one was listening to me.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but there s a certain permanence to bye bye or of war.
2
SPEAKER_01
So, yeah, we ll be back in a bit.
2
SPEAKER_02
If it exploded on takeoff, that would have been the greatest mic drop.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, wow.
2
SPEAKER_01
There was that possibility.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
Going through my head.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes, it s going to blow up.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s a pause.
2
SPEAKER_01
Are the that documentary everybody s seen about the Hindenburg?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Exploding and people running.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, the humanity of humanity.
2
SPEAKER_02
If it had been filled with helium, it would have been all the humanity.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, my God.
2
SPEAKER_02
Now, that s funny.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s never got hydrogen.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that s what they were putting in the rocket.
2
SPEAKER_02
And they said, anytime there s a pause, Bill, on the launch pad.
2
SPEAKER_03
Go ahead, David.
2
SPEAKER_03
I was saying he just he got worried because right before they went up, they go, can you sign these 200 waivers?
2
SPEAKER_03
Just press hard.
2
SPEAKER_03
Twelve copies.
2
SPEAKER_03
Just initial where if you blow up, everything s cool.
2
SPEAKER_01
And they did that on the first conversation.
2
SPEAKER_01
There were there were multiple.
2
SPEAKER_01
Did you ever skydive?
2
SPEAKER_01
Have you guys ever skydived?
2
SPEAKER_02
No, but I ve been in an airplane.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s like, you know, well, they take film of you saying it s OK.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, the plan they go through to make sure they re not to blame if you die.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m still suing no matter what.
2
SPEAKER_02
They would have sued Paramount Pictures or something.
2
SPEAKER_02
Anybody.
2
SPEAKER_03
I ll sue anybody near me.
2
SPEAKER_03
By the way, I have to say, I know you went up and it was fun, but everyone is so horny for Mars.
2
SPEAKER_03
Like, why Mars?
2
SPEAKER_03
To me, and this is my opinion, it s even a bigger shithole than the moon.
2
SPEAKER_03
Like, nothing s happening on Mars.
2
SPEAKER_03
Nothing s happening on the moon.
2
SPEAKER_03
And, you know, I believe in UFOs and stuff.
2
SPEAKER_03
So that s sort of- But what do you mean you believe in UFOs?
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_03
What does that mean?
2
SPEAKER_03
I mean- See, I told you- I m just gonna say, they are real.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t believe they re real.
2
SPEAKER_01
Wait a minute.
2
SPEAKER_01
Wait a minute.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s a there s a difference here.
2
SPEAKER_01
UFOs means unidentified flying up.
2
SPEAKER_01
I believe things are unidentified.
2
SPEAKER_01
They re everywhere.
2
SPEAKER_01
The shit going on that s unidentified.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s stuff in my room.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t leave it out there.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know what Fata Morgana is?
2
SPEAKER_01
I worked with them.
2
SPEAKER_02
It was it s a pasta dish, isn t it?
2
SPEAKER_01
Fata Morgana from Star Wars.
2
SPEAKER_01
No, Fata Morgana is the phenomena that you see in the desert with oases.
2
SPEAKER_01
Why do you see an oasis in the desert on occasion?
2
SPEAKER_01
A mirage.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, the pool, and the palm trees, and the thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s UFOs.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s being projected from an actual oasis somewhere.
2
SPEAKER_01
It could be 1,000 miles away, but as a result of some
2
SPEAKER_01
visual phenomena where that image is projected into a heat shelf, a current, and it s a broadcasting phenomena, like whales bounce off their sound off of warm currents, and it can be heard thousands of miles away.
2
SPEAKER_01
These images bounce off a heat
2
SPEAKER_01
current and then appear on Earth 100 miles, 10 miles, 1,000 miles away.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that s called a Fata Morgana.
2
SPEAKER_01
So wait a minute, William Shatner.
2
SPEAKER_01
So what you might be seeing is Fata Morganas.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, William Shatner.
2
SPEAKER_02
So you re saying Star Trek was not real?
2
SPEAKER_02
You re saying that you didn t go to those planets?
2
SPEAKER_02
No, no, I did.
2
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
2
SPEAKER_03
Dana doesn t get it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Knowing how to speak and understand a new language can be an invaluable tool when traveling, meeting new friends, or just even to master a new skill.
2
SPEAKER_00
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2
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2
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You won t just be studying English translations.
2
SPEAKER_00
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2
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helps you pick up a language naturally, first with words, then phrases, then sentences.
2
SPEAKER_00
Don t put off learning that language.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s no better time than right now to get started.
2
SPEAKER_00
For a very limited time, listeners can get Rosetta Stone s lifetime membership for 50% off.
2
SPEAKER_00
Visit rosettastone.com slash rs10.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s 50% off unlimited access to 25 language courses for the rest of your life.
2
SPEAKER_00
Redeem your 50% off at rosettastone.com slash rs10 today.
2
SPEAKER_02
i i want to do my wish list but in a second i have a wish list well i have a question too
2
SPEAKER_02
OK, but this is is it related to Blue Origin?
2
SPEAKER_01
So I think instead of coming to blows, you could is it related to Blue Origin?
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, this is my wish list.
2
SPEAKER_01
Why is a movie?
2
SPEAKER_02
Go ahead, Elvis.
2
SPEAKER_02
William Shatner was the first artist to go in space and come back down.
2
SPEAKER_02
And then we got all this cool poetry, basically spontaneously.
2
SPEAKER_02
So the next spaceship, I m thinking Dylan, Dr. Dre, Springsteen, Howard Stern, Billie Eilish and David Spade.
2
SPEAKER_02
You just added me.
2
SPEAKER_02
I just added you in, but I mean, shouldn t we send Bob?
2
SPEAKER_01
You interrupted him from asking the question.
2
SPEAKER_01
I did.
2
SPEAKER_01
You throw him a bone.
2
SPEAKER_02
Now we re getting into Raw Nerve, which I love, by the way.
2
SPEAKER_02
Does anyone ever ask you about that show, Bill?
2
SPEAKER_01
I m doing a show called I Don t Understand.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m doing a talk show called I Don t Understand.
2
SPEAKER_01
Again, hardly anybody s watching it because it s streaming.
2
SPEAKER_01
But you can look it up.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I get all those.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ve done 50 half hours of the weirdest, strangest people and subjects.
2
SPEAKER_01
And although it s not personality driven like raw nerve,
2
SPEAKER_01
Like what s a lie?
2
SPEAKER_01
What s a lie?
2
SPEAKER_03
Oh, that s why you catch me on.
2
SPEAKER_03
What s a UFO?
2
SPEAKER_01
What s a lie?
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, what s a UFO?
2
SPEAKER_01
OK, talk about a UFO.
2
SPEAKER_02
The biggest lies we tell are the stories we tell ourselves.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, boy.
2
SPEAKER_01
Heavy.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, that requires analysis to David.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Take the UFO thing, for example.
2
SPEAKER_01
Sure.
2
SPEAKER_01
What do you mean you believe that?
2
SPEAKER_01
in UFOs, what does that mean?
2
SPEAKER_03
UFO is a term, you re right, unidentified flying object.
2
SPEAKER_03
That could be a piece of paper in the air.
2
SPEAKER_03
It s unidentified, means nothing.
2
SPEAKER_03
Is it actual aliens from different planet?
2
SPEAKER_03
That s a little more specific.
2
SPEAKER_03
And have you seen those pictures?
2
SPEAKER_03
It could be fake.
2
SPEAKER_03
On the moon where there s like three ships on the side of it waiting in the wings?
2
SPEAKER_03
Terrifying.
2
SPEAKER_01
No, I haven t seen that picture.
2
SPEAKER_03
Terrifying.
2
SPEAKER_03
And there s a lot of stuff like that.
2
SPEAKER_03
But I believe since I was a kid, I was into that stuff.
2
SPEAKER_03
But I think you re into that.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, I m into it in as much that those recent pictures from the Navy pilots make me think, what is that?
2
SPEAKER_01
And then the Navy talks about ships going under the water, disappearing into the water.
2
SPEAKER_01
What is that?
2
SPEAKER_01
We don t know.
2
SPEAKER_03
They could be coming from the bottom.
2
SPEAKER_03
They don t have to come from space.
2
SPEAKER_03
They could be chilling on the bottom of the ocean, shooting up.
2
SPEAKER_01
One of the conversations I had with Bob Ballard, who is the guy who filmed the Titanic, but he s a major marine biologist, so he was
2
SPEAKER_01
He sent a bathysphere down to the separation of tectonic plates at 30,000 feet under the ocean.
2
SPEAKER_01
There is a bleeding scar in the ocean.
2
SPEAKER_01
where the tectonic plates are separating, and there s magma right there, hot stone, okay?
2
SPEAKER_01
So he puts a bathysphere with people in it, down below, and he s lurking there, and he can t come up because there s a cave, and finally he gets up, and they re coming up like this, slowly, and they re looking out the window, and they re seeing what seems to be like a chimney.
2
SPEAKER_01
And they re going past the chimney and suddenly they re at the top of the chimney and spewing out of the chimney is hot, 600 degree Fahrenheit water, six boiling point of waters to 212 degrees, 600 degrees Fahrenheit.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s coming out of this plume of water.
2
SPEAKER_01
Not only it s 30,000 feet under, so there s 30,000 feet of pressure.
2
SPEAKER_01
600,000 degrees, 600 degrees Fahrenheit boiling water.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it s all sulfurous.
2
SPEAKER_01
OK.
2
SPEAKER_01
And as they go by, they see 13 foot worms living there and clams.
2
SPEAKER_01
They re living.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
In those in that.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
My asthma of extreme conditions.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
T-mobiles.
2
SPEAKER_02
Mm-hmm.
2
SPEAKER_02
What does that say about life can go it can go anywhere the same terrifying terrifying?
2
SPEAKER_02
Well, why is it terrifying?
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, I think
3
SPEAKER_01
I think there s so much unknown that way that we don t pay attention to and we always look up.
3
SPEAKER_00
But unknown doesn t mean necessarily terrifying.
3
SPEAKER_00
Just to me it does, but I think... That s a clue to your whole character, isn t it?
3
SPEAKER_01
Fear.
3
SPEAKER_01
Don t lean in, that makes me more scared.
3
SPEAKER_01
That means you re onto something.
3
SPEAKER_01
But no, when you lean back, that s scary.
3
SPEAKER_01
Self-deprecating.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I know.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m scared of six foot worms.
3
SPEAKER_01
And did you say defecating?
3
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_02
No, I said I was just describing an action that I m performing right now.
3
SPEAKER_02
No, I said deprecating.
3
SPEAKER_02
Oh, Mr. Toobin.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
This whole thing is a waist down affair.
3
SPEAKER_02
No one sees where it goes.
3
SPEAKER_01
i have a story that i just like it just to change gears i m sorry this is so many boring but i think you are the host of snl and dennis said that he walked somewhere with you you might not remember this he was his observation but he told me years ago that when you walk with people that when you walk to the
3
SPEAKER_01
when people yell your name you would casually go like that that s kinda what they wanted and you just say why you talk cuz it was so ingrained in people that s gonna ask why you re still talking story what a great can t be true can t be true at all i can t even do that that s more of a spark thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
I can t do that.
3
SPEAKER_01
He said people wanted you to do it and you were like casual because you re so famous.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was sort of a fun complimentary story that you were walking around and so many people knew.
3
SPEAKER_00
Actually, what I do is like what the queen does.
3
SPEAKER_00
I just sort of regally.
3
SPEAKER_00
Thank you very much.
3
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, let s put a hit out on them.
3
SPEAKER_02
Nothing serious.
3
SPEAKER_01
I have a question.
3
SPEAKER_01
What s more of a popular phrase that you hear?
3
SPEAKER_01
Is it beam me up Scotty or warp speed captain?
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, have you gone out and signed autographs at Comic-Con and stuff like that?
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, Comic-Con s a big one.
3
SPEAKER_01
You probably don t do them because you re too big of a deal at those things.
3
SPEAKER_00
No, no, I don t do small things.
3
SPEAKER_00
I just do very large things.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you do that.
3
SPEAKER_00
Or small things that pay very well.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think that s good.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re not afraid to say no.
3
SPEAKER_00
The sign on the autograph, they ask, would you sign something?
3
SPEAKER_00
So it s a toss-up between those two, which is the most popular.
3
SPEAKER_00
See, Dana, that was a good question.
3
SPEAKER_01
That was a good question.
3
SPEAKER_00
Why shouldn t you be able to ask a good question, David?
3
SPEAKER_01
Because I m kind of stupid, Dana said, but I think that that was because I know Star Trek growing up.
3
SPEAKER_01
Are you guys going to get along?
3
SPEAKER_02
I ve had five years of intensive therapy.
3
SPEAKER_02
I started at 60.
3
SPEAKER_01
I learned i learned a lot you came up a lot in there david does david know about therapy and i do i haven t gotten into it but that means i m not fixed yet but i m just sort of skimming by but dana teaches me like is dana and i old friends.
3
SPEAKER_01
And he s very smart.
3
SPEAKER_01
And we have dinners and I learn a lot from him because he s he knows the drill.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so I m the elder statesman.
3
SPEAKER_02
We I do.
3
SPEAKER_02
We get along really well.
3
SPEAKER_02
I ve known David since before SNL.
3
SPEAKER_00
There was a movie that David was in.
3
SPEAKER_00
Everybody quiet.
3
SPEAKER_00
Eight heads in a- It was a straight role, David, and you were splitting, you were right on the ledge of, it was a beautiful performance of you who are known for your comedy, throttled that comedic instinct way back, and you were very real, and it was really a good, really good performance.
3
SPEAKER_00
What movie would that have been that I would have- Not Jack and Jill.
3
SPEAKER_01
Tommy boy no there s one called warning shot i played it straight there s a couple were i don t do that many and people say you should do it more but the truth is.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t get off of that stuff of course you have to go out there and find it and chase it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And work for nothing do it and it s a big if you can find a slot i ve had and i need you to get to corroborate.
3
SPEAKER_00
Most, if not all, comics, people known for the comedy and do stand-up and now become traditionally, oh, you re funny, be funny, started off as actors.
3
SPEAKER_00
And you were naturally amusing, and people said, oh, you re funny, and you developed that gift.
3
SPEAKER_00
And finally, the acting roles became less and less, and the demand for you as a comic became more and more, and your careers became that of being funny.
3
SPEAKER_00
Is that what happens?
3
SPEAKER_01
I started it just as a standup with no aspirations to do anything other than.
3
SPEAKER_00
No kidding.
3
SPEAKER_01
I try to be.
3
SPEAKER_01
Did he want to be a standup?
3
SPEAKER_00
The opposite of what I just said.
3
SPEAKER_01
No.
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, I would.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean, the same thing.
3
SPEAKER_02
I, I, I worship movies.
3
SPEAKER_02
You know, we talked about Goldfinger the other day, Sean Connery or The Great Escape.
3
SPEAKER_02
But for me, when I was I had big family, five of us rough and tumble childhood.
3
SPEAKER_02
when I would see the Danny Kaye show or the Jackie Gleason show early on and then Carol Burnett and Smothers Brothers and flips.
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, I aspired to that when I saw laughing when I saw Saturday Night Live, because I could kind of do voices.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I got a lot of attention for that when I was nine, eight, nine years of age, I could talk like the Beatles.
3
SPEAKER_02
Now, that was a big hit with my mom, you know, at least something was.
3
SPEAKER_02
I said, mom, do you think you could make me some pancakes?
3
SPEAKER_02
And she dropped the batter and screamed.
3
SPEAKER_02
So I ran out.
3
SPEAKER_02
No, it was, she laughed.
3
SPEAKER_02
But I, what about you being a dramatic actor and then also going on third rock and other things that are overtly comedic.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then you went back, Boston League, you played Denny Crane, that arc.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean, your Wikipedia page is just loaded with shit.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean, it is the most impressive, most eclectic,
3
SPEAKER_00
career twilight zone just keeps going i i i i love to make people laugh but i don t i don t tell jokes per se i mean i can tell but you re very funny
3
SPEAKER_00
So I have the same sense of humor that you guys have.
3
SPEAKER_00
Your mind works.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, that s you can make it funny.
3
SPEAKER_00
You can make it straight or you can make it funny.
3
SPEAKER_00
You make it funny because you like to see people smile and then laugh.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so I m the same way.
3
SPEAKER_00
But my whole genesis was that as an actor.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I always tried to find.
3
SPEAKER_00
the fun, the comedy, the laugh, no matter what it was.
3
SPEAKER_00
Because people, if somebody just died in their arms, might be not amusing, but might have an observation that, in retrospect, is funny.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, when I see you, you seem
3
SPEAKER_01
just seeing you from a distance in your career and talk shows and stuff you do have a lightness to you that s more of a comedic side to me than some actors are very.
3
SPEAKER_01
Heavy for all the drama you ve done and so and that s fine too but i just felt like me and dana wanna talk to you.
3
SPEAKER_01
you just feel like it s going to be more fun because you re sort of on our, that vibe anyway.
3
SPEAKER_01
So you wouldn t take anything offense or that kind of stuff.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re just kind of go back and forth with it and do your, and that s absolutely, I think talk shows like the ones, uh, essentially it s a, there s a talk show or at least, you know, the, the effect is, um,
3
SPEAKER_00
is you want to be informed, you want to have some insight, but you also want to be amused, you want to laugh.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you can make you laugh and inform you at the same time, it s much more entertaining.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I ve gone by that for a long time.
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, I would say two things.
3
SPEAKER_02
One is, like, I worked with Mickey Rooney in 1981, my first job ever.
3
SPEAKER_02
I met a lot of older actors at that point that were bitter by their time in show business.
3
SPEAKER_02
and or self-important.
3
SPEAKER_02
And none of that ever appeared in your vibe.
3
SPEAKER_02
You had a sense of humor about the entire ride, and you could do something flat, dramatic, brilliant, or you could do something completely hilarious.
3
SPEAKER_02
To me, I admire that about you, that you never got self-important or bitter, and you seem to be having fun.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, I don t know what they re self-important about.
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, a lot of people find a reason maybe to be.
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, that Wikipedia page feels pretty good.
3
SPEAKER_00
They research a reason for feeling self-important.
3
SPEAKER_00
I know, I don t get it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I never understood, for example, Brando said about acting, it s child s play, and he got discouraged about it.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think that being an actor, which is, I mean, you re reading somebody else s words, but there s so many
3
SPEAKER_00
colors there s so many nuances that if you re working if you re really working and thinking about it i could i you know how subtle timing is don t have to tell you two guys how you can miss a laugh just by somebody coughing in the audience i mean it s as delicate
4
SPEAKER_00
as a cobweb.
4
SPEAKER_00
And to keep that cobweb alive, to make every night in your stand-up or in a play, the laugh is still there.
4
SPEAKER_00
And sometimes, as the three of us know only too well, the laugh disappears.
4
SPEAKER_00
What the hell?
4
SPEAKER_00
What happened to the laugh that was there?
4
SPEAKER_00
What are you doing that is subtly different from last night that the laugh didn t come?
4
SPEAKER_02
I did it this weekend.
4
SPEAKER_02
I did two shows, and there s one joke, or not joke, but I sort of talk for a little bit.
4
SPEAKER_00
Ted, do it.
4
SPEAKER_00
Tell us the joke.
4
SPEAKER_00
Give us the example.
4
SPEAKER_02
Well, it s not really an example.
4
SPEAKER_02
Well, there was one where I said when people
4
SPEAKER_02
sneeze i just said bless you and i said i used to say that but for two years.
4
SPEAKER_02
In the middle recently when they would sneeze i d say oh shit we re all gonna die.
4
SPEAKER_02
And then I say it s so real, they were like, right?
4
SPEAKER_02
And then one night, it s a big laugh.
4
SPEAKER_02
The next night, I added to it and I said, and then for a month when it got really bad, I said, oh fuck, we re gonna for sure die because of your deadly poison boogers that you re shooting out at 3000 miles an hour into my faculties.
4
SPEAKER_02
And then I go, but then I tighten it back up.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s just bless you now, it s easier.
4
SPEAKER_02
One night they just listen like and stare, and the next night they re like, hey, that s a funny joke.
4
SPEAKER_02
And you go, and you listen back and go, what was different?
4
SPEAKER_02
It s an eyebrow.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s either you were louder or quieter.
4
SPEAKER_00
Also, I love that phrase that we ve all heard and which is worthwhile discussing.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s too soon.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s about anything about about making political commentary on something that s too soon.
4
SPEAKER_00
So it s too soon as a question.
4
SPEAKER_01
As soon as it bombs too soon.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
Some people are still wearing masks.
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, that s true.
4
SPEAKER_01
If they don t laugh too soon.
4
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think a lot of it is just clarity, right, David?
4
SPEAKER_01
I mean, if you do a bit and you ve got like three lines you have to say in sequence perfectly to set up the funny part, and then you get kind of used to it and maybe you skip one little phrase and they don t get what the premise is.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s one word.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s exactly right.
4
SPEAKER_00
Imagine being in a long run play, of which I have been in more than one, and every night
4
SPEAKER_00
You know that laugh is like a pearl.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s a string of pearls of laughs that have come about.
4
SPEAKER_00
You re in rehearsal, and you don t know where the laughs are.
4
SPEAKER_00
Take my wife, please.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s a laugh.
4
SPEAKER_00
But where the other laughs are, you really don t know.
4
SPEAKER_00
Same with your stand-up.
4
SPEAKER_00
You write your stand-up, and then, OK, I know that s going to be funny, but is this funny?
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, suddenly they re laughing.
4
SPEAKER_02
They laugh on the setup and you go, that s not even the funny part.
4
SPEAKER_02
But they all decide that s the funny part at once.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s crazy.
4
SPEAKER_01
Going to Saturday Night Live for a second to that point is that it read through you get laughs and you get on the show.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s Wednesday.
4
SPEAKER_01
Thursday, you do a dry rehearsal five, 10 times in a row with the crew laughs the first time.
4
SPEAKER_01
Then there s no laughter.
4
SPEAKER_01
Friday, you re doing walkthroughs, no laughter.
4
SPEAKER_01
Everyone s bored.
4
SPEAKER_01
Look in the ceiling.
4
SPEAKER_01
By the time you get to the practice show at like 7 p.m.
4
SPEAKER_01
on Saturday, you re like, I don t even know.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then
4
SPEAKER_01
Ah, this is funny.
4
SPEAKER_01
But you re almost everyone s tired of it.
4
SPEAKER_01
I just want to say, well, I was on Oprah one time, but it was with Chevy Chase and Tina Fey and people.
4
SPEAKER_01
And she always asks, who s your favorite host?
4
SPEAKER_01
So at that moment, because of
4
SPEAKER_01
You re the name that came up for me.
4
SPEAKER_01
I just said William Shatner.
4
SPEAKER_01
The reason was, one was it was such a thrill being a Star Trek fan.
4
SPEAKER_01
It was like maybe my sixth show and I got to play Khan in a sketch.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m doing Ricardo Montalban.
4
SPEAKER_01
All that was surreal.
4
SPEAKER_01
But then I noticed your attitude about SNL was so light and fun.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I said to you, you re so loose and having so much fun.
4
SPEAKER_01
I mean, how are you doing this?
4
SPEAKER_01
He goes, well, how else would you do this?
4
SPEAKER_01
We re under rehearsed.
4
SPEAKER_01
We don t know where we re going.
4
SPEAKER_01
And it was the perfect attitude of like, why take this so seriously?
4
SPEAKER_01
It s impossible.
4
SPEAKER_01
When it happens, it s great.
4
SPEAKER_00
But then the other part that is butt tightening is the word.
4
SPEAKER_00
Remember the words.
4
SPEAKER_00
You got to remember the words.
4
SPEAKER_00
In this case, they re all in front of you.
4
SPEAKER_00
So you re not going to forget the words.
4
SPEAKER_00
The other thing is, you re riveted looking at the cards as against trying to get looser, look away, give it a little.
4
SPEAKER_00
a little juice, you know, but but so many of the people who come on are, you know, yeah, you know, and then I went down the street.
4
SPEAKER_01
And and Christopher Walken, which I ve mentioned, just stared straight at the cards and never looked at anybody.
4
SPEAKER_01
And it worked.
4
SPEAKER_01
He just looked straight at the card, didn t even look over at you.
4
SPEAKER_01
Don t know why we re going here.
4
SPEAKER_01
Not going to whack, you know, but with him at work.
4
SPEAKER_02
You know, Dana, let me bore you guys with a quick story.
4
SPEAKER_02
Christopher Walken, I don t really do a good impression, but he was on a movie I did and we were in a house with the lights off.
4
SPEAKER_02
It was getting dark and then we come out and the lights come on.
4
SPEAKER_02
And so we start in the dark.
4
SPEAKER_02
So we re standing in the dark, there s probably four of us.
4
SPEAKER_02
We can t even see each other.
4
SPEAKER_02
And he goes, David, have you ever worked with an active dog?
4
SPEAKER_02
And I go, yeah, there s one in this movie.
4
SPEAKER_02
And he goes, they re good.
4
SPEAKER_02
They know what they re doing.
4
SPEAKER_02
They train them pretty well.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I go, yep.
4
SPEAKER_02
And then dead silent.
4
SPEAKER_02
And then he goes, hey, David, you ever work with an active cat?
4
SPEAKER_02
And I go, an actor cat?
4
SPEAKER_02
I go, no.
4
SPEAKER_02
And he goes.
4
SPEAKER_02
They re no good.
4
SPEAKER_02
They don t do anything.
4
SPEAKER_02
They have a trainer, but if you say go there, they don t.
4
SPEAKER_02
And then if you yell at them, they jump.
4
SPEAKER_02
But any cat ll do that.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I go, yeah?
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
And then silence.
4
SPEAKER_02
And then he goes, hey, David, you ever work on Act a Mouse?
4
SPEAKER_02
And I go, no way.
4
SPEAKER_01
Sounds like an old joke.
4
SPEAKER_02
I did on Mouse Trap.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I go, oh, that s right.
4
SPEAKER_02
You did a movie called Mouse Trap.
4
SPEAKER_02
They re good, they re smart.
4
SPEAKER_02
He goes, you say go up and take a beat and go to the right, and they do, I don t know how.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I go, oh, and he goes, I d work again with the mouse.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I go, I ll look.
4
SPEAKER_00
And he s deliberately, he s funny, right?
4
SPEAKER_02
He s very serious, very serious.
4
SPEAKER_02
He s just telling you.
4
SPEAKER_02
Was he doing a routine or was he?
4
SPEAKER_02
No, just telling me.
4
SPEAKER_02
That sounds like a great routine.
4
SPEAKER_00
I know.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s so funny to me, and the other people in there were going,
4
SPEAKER_02
And then he goes, then they re like, OK, rolling.
4
SPEAKER_02
And he s like, OK, quiet.
4
SPEAKER_02
I m like, is it a joke?
4
SPEAKER_02
I don t know.
4
SPEAKER_02
It just was so great.
4
SPEAKER_02
Act a mouse.
4
SPEAKER_02
I did a play.
4
SPEAKER_00
Boys in the Band was a big hit.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then Crowley was the author s name.
4
SPEAKER_00
And he had written the second play, was probably his first play.
4
SPEAKER_00
And Boyz II Men was his second play.
4
SPEAKER_00
Anyway, we were now in Los Angeles.
4
SPEAKER_00
We were going to go to Broadway on Crowley s next play.
4
SPEAKER_00
And it wasn t as good as Boyz II Men.
4
SPEAKER_00
So the opening moment is this actress, well-known Broadway actress, whose name I can t remember, and I come out on the apron in darkness.
4
SPEAKER_00
And we re holding hands and the curtains part, the lights come up, play begins.
4
SPEAKER_00
So we walk out onto the apron, opening night in Los Angeles, sold out house.
4
SPEAKER_00
She clutches my hand and then she turns to me, I guess, and whispers, are we in a disaster?
4
SPEAKER_00
Right when it comes up.
4
SPEAKER_00
And we were.
4
SPEAKER_00
It never got out of Los Angeles.
4
SPEAKER_00
She knew it was a disaster.
4
SPEAKER_00
Imagine opening night.
4
SPEAKER_00
Are we in a disaster?
4
SPEAKER_02
That s all your inner monologue is the whole night is.
4
SPEAKER_01
I had my Christopher Walken moment that I don t know how funny it is, but it always stuck with me.
4
SPEAKER_01
We re in a wooden spaceship, an 8H, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
A jack candy sketch.
4
SPEAKER_01
So we re going to land on planet Earth.
4
SPEAKER_01
But our our landing door always killed somebody.
4
SPEAKER_01
So when we walk out, the local townspeople are mad, kill him, hang him high.
4
SPEAKER_01
And so in rehearsal, he had one line where he would say, let s get out of here.
4
SPEAKER_01
But he would just say to me, say, let s get out of here.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then we d go back in the wooden spaceship, cramped in this little space.
4
SPEAKER_01
He laughed for like a minute after everything.
4
SPEAKER_01
Get out of here!
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t know why.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, he is admirable.
4
SPEAKER_00
He s a wonderful actor.
4
SPEAKER_00
Brilliant.
4
SPEAKER_00
I guess you know something that strikes me as being astonishing is that he was a tap dancer.
4
SPEAKER_00
He was a dancer.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so, there are films that, at least one that I can think of, where he does a little tap dance routine while waiting around a lamp pole.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_00
I thought, of course, he just ad-libbed that, or he told the director, I can do this.
4
SPEAKER_00
What a sensational kind of, what a character he is.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
He was a janitor in this one, Dana, when I did one.
4
SPEAKER_02
And he s got a broom, and he goes, what if I danced around with the broom?
4
SPEAKER_02
Same thing.
4
SPEAKER_02
And we said, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
And he s really good.
5
SPEAKER_01
He did that, uh, old video Fred Astaire.
5
SPEAKER_02
He did a video for like, not Moby, but back or someone where he dances very, very light on his feet.
5
SPEAKER_01
Fun to watch.
5
SPEAKER_01
I, you know, the, when he was, when I was at SNL, I had this old Southern gentleman who was doing my wardrobe and Christopher Walken was the guest host.
5
SPEAKER_01
And he d been a child actor and had performed in New York city.
5
SPEAKER_00
The dresser was a child.
5
SPEAKER_01
No, Christopher Walken.
5
SPEAKER_01
And the dresser knew him back then.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh.
5
SPEAKER_01
And just talked about him now because Chris had this sort of almost scary, funny vibe around him.
5
SPEAKER_01
And he said to me, this old Southern gentleman said about Chris, you know, he s got the devil in his eyes.
5
SPEAKER_01
And he was serious.
5
SPEAKER_01
He s got the devil in him.
5
SPEAKER_00
He s also got the devil in his hair.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s great.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s so funny.
5
SPEAKER_00
His whole thing is the devil.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, he s quite a character.
5
SPEAKER_00
I wish I... I ve never met him, I don t think.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I would love to have a conversation with him.
5
SPEAKER_01
He s really interesting, really surprisingly vulnerable.
5
SPEAKER_01
He s kind of intimidating, but he s very, very sweet.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I, you know, it s almost old fashioned in a sense.
5
SPEAKER_01
I would like to know what you think about this, Bill.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s just when you see Al Pacino in The Godfather,
5
SPEAKER_01
which is brilliant.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then my performance I love is when he extenuated his Cuban accent in Scarface.
5
SPEAKER_01
And it seems like as actors get older down their career, they ll become way more theatrical.
5
SPEAKER_01
Because maybe they re bored or something.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think they re looser.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think they re looser.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think what happens is you can go in any direction.
5
SPEAKER_00
So you go in three directions.
5
SPEAKER_00
Or you choose one, two, three.
5
SPEAKER_00
You don t just say hello.
5
SPEAKER_00
You go... Confidence, maybe.
5
SPEAKER_02
i got a confidence to go like you can play it more real like i don t always say hello in real life i go you can do anything is that really happens in real life so you can play there s so many different ways to play almost any line.
5
SPEAKER_02
I m sorry, I m answering for you.
5
SPEAKER_02
I m sorry, but that s what I know.
5
SPEAKER_00
You re absolutely right.
5
SPEAKER_00
You re absolutely right.
5
SPEAKER_00
I do believe it has to do with confidence.
5
SPEAKER_00
If you ve gotten older and you re still working, then there s a certain amount of confidence.
5
SPEAKER_01
How about you personally?
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, do you feel like did your confidence get to a point?
5
SPEAKER_01
Did it ebb and wane or did it go?
5
SPEAKER_01
And where is it now?
5
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
5
SPEAKER_00
Depending on how it s going.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
But.
5
SPEAKER_00
Going along that theme, it s also interesting how I think you should simplify.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think in a joke, the more you can cut away, cut superfluous material away from the words, you ve got to hone it down to its basic simplicity.
5
SPEAKER_00
The more simple you are as an individual, as an artist, as a person, as in a relationship, the more honest and simple it becomes then just
5
SPEAKER_00
being.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Right.
5
SPEAKER_00
Not trying, not pushing.
5
SPEAKER_00
You don t make the crowd work.
5
SPEAKER_01
I feel like the self-critical voice that, especially in standup or whatever, when you re doing a set and you re giving yourself a report card, the best sets are when that voice disappears and you re just completely fluid in the moment.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s always a really nice place to get to.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I did a movie with Burt Lancaster and Kirk Douglas talking about simplicity, because I was so in awe of them.
5
SPEAKER_01
And we re just shooting a scene around a little table.
5
SPEAKER_01
And they have their lines, but they just say them.
5
SPEAKER_01
Kurt does like, I don t think we should rub the bank.
5
SPEAKER_01
Just that.
5
SPEAKER_01
And Bert s like, if we don t rub it now, we ll never rub it.
5
SPEAKER_01
And they just like, they did take, but that s it.
5
SPEAKER_01
And they re Burt Lancaster, Kirk Douglas.
5
SPEAKER_01
Then I come around to my coverage and I d go, what do you guys think?
5
SPEAKER_01
Or whatever.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then Kirk Douglas always said, I think we got it.
5
SPEAKER_01
There s no reason to do another take.
5
SPEAKER_02
So he was- I like when you work with actors and they do 10 of the exact same takes.
5
SPEAKER_02
And you re like, I like to screw around and say, oh, they re going to pick it if they re a good editor.
5
SPEAKER_02
But sometimes people go, this is the way I see it.
5
SPEAKER_02
This is the way it s going to be.
5
SPEAKER_02
And you re not going to get me off it.
5
SPEAKER_00
So here it is.
5
SPEAKER_00
I got a funny moment.
5
SPEAKER_00
I got a funny moment about that.
5
SPEAKER_00
I did a.
5
SPEAKER_00
thing, a movie, Judgment at Nuremberg, it was called.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I played a officer at the lawyer s desk.
5
SPEAKER_01
Is this from Montgomery Cliff and everything or no?
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, that s it.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh, that movie.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh, my God.
5
SPEAKER_00
So I m at the desk doing nothing, just being this character that s at the desk.
5
SPEAKER_00
But I m seeing everybody come in because everybody comes in to testify.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
So they all do their thing.
5
SPEAKER_00
They do one day, Judy Garland.
5
SPEAKER_00
Come on, girl.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, Burt Lancaster comes in, does his day.
5
SPEAKER_00
And he does.
5
SPEAKER_00
You ll have to do it.
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, I didn t do anything.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m a good German.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m telling you, I did nothing.
5
SPEAKER_01
I was simply following orders.
5
SPEAKER_01
I didn t kill nobody, no where, no how.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m going to make it rain.
5
SPEAKER_01
Sorry.
5
SPEAKER_01
Go ahead.
5
SPEAKER_01
Perfect.
5
SPEAKER_01
Cut.
5
SPEAKER_00
Cut.
5
SPEAKER_00
Great bird.
5
SPEAKER_00
Great.
5
SPEAKER_00
Everybody applaud.
5
SPEAKER_00
Bird says, thank you very much.
5
SPEAKER_00
And he leaves.
5
SPEAKER_00
OK.
5
SPEAKER_00
The next morning, Hey, everybody was stopped the, uh, cutting the, not doing the, the, the, the schedule Bert wants to come in and, and, uh, he didn t feel right about doing it.
5
SPEAKER_00
He s going to do it again.
5
SPEAKER_00
Take two.
5
SPEAKER_00
Bert Lancaster comes back in.
5
SPEAKER_00
Now do Bert Lancaster like you just did.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m telling you, I did nothing wrong.
5
SPEAKER_01
I never killed anybody.
5
SPEAKER_01
You can ask anybody.
5
SPEAKER_01
I was sick of it.
5
SPEAKER_01
Great, Bert!
5
SPEAKER_01
Thank you very much.
5
SPEAKER_01
Thank you very much.
5
SPEAKER_01
Was it like the same reading?
5
SPEAKER_02
You just did exactly the same thing.
5
SPEAKER_01
It was hysterical.
5
SPEAKER_01
I just want to get it again.
5
SPEAKER_01
We laughed and laughed.
5
SPEAKER_01
He was sweet.
5
SPEAKER_01
He was a very nice man.
5
SPEAKER_02
How about this?
5
SPEAKER_02
This is an IMDB roulette question.
5
SPEAKER_02
There is twilight zone in there did you ever do night gallery which scared the shit out of me i was scared of night gallery do you remember night gallery?
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh yeah 67, 68.
5
SPEAKER_01
I remember night gallery but i don t remember.
5
SPEAKER_00
You know all those jobs back then were half hour shows.
5
SPEAKER_02
I love it.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, those half-hour shows and the hour shows, you did them to make a living.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, you had the rent to pay and the children to feed and nobody, you know, the audience at large, people are going to watch you in this, don t understand that you also have to make a living as an actor.
5
SPEAKER_00
And if you re not making $20 million a picture, which you put away and live on the interest, you have to work.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so some of the jobs you take because it s working.
5
SPEAKER_01
By the way, I want to thank Bill for you saved me a lot of money.
5
SPEAKER_01
In?
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, there s a story I happened upon and I won t name the stock I happened upon out of a probably a dumb investment.
5
SPEAKER_01
I got a lot of one particular stock.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s kind of famous now, but when it doubled, the experts said, no, you got to sell it because it would gyrate down.
5
SPEAKER_01
It would double and then come back.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I remember you regretting selling Priceline.
5
SPEAKER_01
So I held on to it and I still am holding on to it today.
5
SPEAKER_01
So I just want to thank you.
5
SPEAKER_00
Fantastic.
5
SPEAKER_00
So it was the dotcom bubble.
5
SPEAKER_00
It went way up.
5
SPEAKER_00
But because I was there originally,
5
SPEAKER_00
There s a thing called a tie-in or a tie-up where you can t sell it for a year and a half.
5
SPEAKER_00
So it went up, and I m watching it go up.
5
SPEAKER_00
I got it for like 25 cents, and it went up to $150 or more.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think, God, I m going to be rich.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m going to be rich.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m sorry.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I can t sell it.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then I can sell it and it s back down to 25 cents.
5
SPEAKER_00
So I sold it and it goes back and it went up again.
5
SPEAKER_01
Thousands of dollars.
5
SPEAKER_01
I have a question.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, go ahead.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, I was just curious about this Star Trek and then part of the 70s where you re kind of doing game shows or whatever, but then all of a sudden there s seven Star Trek movies.
5
SPEAKER_01
i mean that s never have anyone show business a series from the city and then seven star trek movies one in which you directed i i just think that s a fascinating part of your incredible it was it was it was did you not get paid i don t i think it said that you don t get paid a lot of star trek is that early job right.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, we didn t get, no, it was an early job and we were all, I had done Broadway and movies and stuff.
5
SPEAKER_00
A lot of stuff, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, before Star Trek.
5
SPEAKER_00
But, you know, to get to that level, you had to star in, even movies didn t do it, you had to do a series.
5
SPEAKER_00
And when I did that series,
5
SPEAKER_00
Uh, it put me into another, another level.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I was able to do those movies and I didn t, I stopped doing half hour shows.
5
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_02
Stop playing the heavy on Charlie s angels.
5
SPEAKER_02
No, it just sounds like something someone would do just for a week of work.
5
SPEAKER_01
Did you ever play a bad, you did a couple of Columbus, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, those are great.
5
SPEAKER_00
How is Peter Falk?
5
SPEAKER_00
They were they were sensational.
5
SPEAKER_00
And and I don t know whether this is common knowledge.
5
SPEAKER_00
They were very difficult to write for.
6
SPEAKER_00
And they were difficult to reverse engineering.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, exactly.
6
SPEAKER_00
What s exactly right?
6
SPEAKER_00
Well, it means that, you know, the criminal.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
And the whole drama is is Columbo learning who the criminal is.
6
SPEAKER_00
But you all you, the audience know it is.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
But what s the jeopardy?
6
SPEAKER_00
And then have you seen those, David?
6
SPEAKER_00
Because he plays the very difficult to make it work.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
6
SPEAKER_01
I ve seen Colombo when he he makes a side story like he goes, is this your dog?
6
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I had a dog like this.
6
SPEAKER_01
Meanwhile, I know you killed the guy.
6
SPEAKER_02
But is this like he played?
6
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it was kind of a passive aggressive character.
6
SPEAKER_02
You fit when you watch you feel like he knew, but he just left him dangling for a week.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I don t know.
6
SPEAKER_00
My wife, I don t know that when he unbuckled his
6
SPEAKER_00
Coat.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
What you were going to see.
6
SPEAKER_00
Might have been a tubing, maybe pre-tubing, an early tubing.
6
SPEAKER_00
I was going to go there.
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh, Peter Falk.
6
SPEAKER_00
Better not.
6
SPEAKER_01
Better not.
6
SPEAKER_01
Wait, Dana.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
6
SPEAKER_02
Gemini.
6
SPEAKER_01
When this guy did SNL, you were newer, you said.
6
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
Six, eight shows.
6
SPEAKER_01
Who wrote the Star Trek sketch?
6
SPEAKER_01
Was that Smigel?
6
SPEAKER_01
Probably, I don t know.
6
SPEAKER_01
And Mr. Shatner, were you okay with that sketch, beginning, middle, end?
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
That sketch reminded me or made me aware of the best comedy is played absolutely real.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
6
SPEAKER_00
If you can be ultra- Serious, yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
Ultra-serious.
6
SPEAKER_00
If it s, you know, there s a comedic cloud, just, it s just a little hint, a mist of comedy, so the audience knows it s funny, but doesn t know it s funny.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
6
SPEAKER_00
There s a balance there that you guys, you superb comedians, know exactly what I mean.
6
SPEAKER_00
The audience you and I are, three of us are talking to, might not know what we re talking about.
6
SPEAKER_00
But there is a hint of the actor is in on the comedy.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yes, but it s absolutely real.
6
SPEAKER_00
And that s those those are the comedic actors.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then there s the actors who don t have that hint.
6
SPEAKER_00
And it becomes absolutely real.
6
SPEAKER_02
It s not funny, wacky.
6
SPEAKER_02
You know, there was a TJ Hooker.
6
SPEAKER_02
sketch that we did as well.
6
SPEAKER_02
And again, we played it just flat as real as possible.
6
SPEAKER_02
Some of the car was whipping around.
6
SPEAKER_02
I can t remember.
6
SPEAKER_02
And then there was one where you were played some vein.
6
SPEAKER_02
You were in a, in a mirror posing going, look at that.
6
SPEAKER_02
But look at these arms.
6
SPEAKER_02
Do you remember that one?
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, you had a killer show.
6
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that was like, it was a killer show.
6
SPEAKER_00
The, the epitome of that was there was a movie I did with, uh,
6
SPEAKER_00
De Niro and I came on as myself to show him how to jump over a car.
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh, and and I said to them, look, I m going to play hurt and don t cut the camera because you re pretending I play.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, because it s going to look real.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I ll come up out of the car and I m going to play hurt.
6
SPEAKER_00
Do not.
6
SPEAKER_00
ever cut the camera don t no matter what i do do not cut never cut right so i jump over the car and now i m being ultra real oh shit oh
6
SPEAKER_00
And they cut the cut, which is the most flattering thing they could have done for you.
6
SPEAKER_00
Why did you do that?
6
SPEAKER_02
I told you not to cut.
6
SPEAKER_02
It s almost like a Ralph Crandom thing or something.
6
SPEAKER_02
You know, get out of here.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s the funny part.
6
SPEAKER_00
That would that would that was actually funny.
6
SPEAKER_00
I did it again, but probably not as well as the first time.
6
SPEAKER_00
No.
6
SPEAKER_00
Where you play ultra ultra.
6
SPEAKER_00
And the audience is in on the joke.
6
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_02
Pain is funny.
6
SPEAKER_02
I mean, look at Laurel and Hardy, look at the Three Stooges, look at Crap Balls, bang.
6
SPEAKER_02
The Three Stooges have gotten, when I think about them now and the abstraction of people hitting your friend with a hammer in his face and on his head and stuff, it seems funnier now than when I was a kid because I loved Abba and Costello and I really liked the Three Stooges.
6
SPEAKER_00
Abba and Costello.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
Abbott and Costello had more intellect, but that who s on the classic sketch, that classic sketch is maybe the most brilliant written piece of comedy ever, and delivered.
6
SPEAKER_02
Full circle, I did an homage to Abbott and Costello, Lou Costello, when Christopher Walken was in Wayne s World 2, and he s kind of the bad guy, and I m playing Garth, and he goes, Garth!
6
SPEAKER_02
Like that, and I started doing that.
6
SPEAKER_02
which is very hard to do, you know.
6
SPEAKER_02
And then Mike started doing it.
6
SPEAKER_02
But yeah, they were Abbott Costello meets Frankenstein as a kid.
6
SPEAKER_02
Watching that on television was like, ah, perfect.
6
SPEAKER_00
He couldn t when he saw Frankenstein and couldn t get it out.
6
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_02
What s the matter with you?
6
SPEAKER_02
I don t know.
6
SPEAKER_02
There s no one here.
6
SPEAKER_02
And he s just pointing.
6
SPEAKER_02
What are you talking about?
6
SPEAKER_02
Look, I m going to go over here.
6
SPEAKER_02
I ll be back in five minutes.
6
SPEAKER_00
Who invents that?
6
SPEAKER_00
Does Lou Costello invent that?
6
SPEAKER_00
Does the director say, hey, here s an opportunity.
6
SPEAKER_02
I just wonder, those early movie stars,
6
SPEAKER_02
vaudeville was such a breeding ground for all the basics of comedy in fact apparently i don t know that abban costello who s on first had been performed by some other act at some point that maybe it was something that
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s yeah, that I don t that it was the classic sketch in vaudeville, which they they took.
6
SPEAKER_00
But I can t imagine anybody doing it better because they played it so real.
6
SPEAKER_02
Absolutely.
6
SPEAKER_02
The timing.
6
SPEAKER_02
I mean, that s just you can t beat those two actors doing that.
6
SPEAKER_02
No, because they re just like, no, I would have required.
6
SPEAKER_00
hours of rehearsals, days of rehearsals.
6
SPEAKER_02
That s to your point about this whole podcast.
6
SPEAKER_02
I mean, one little drop beat, one guy doesn t remember one tiny bit, and the whole thing is done in a second.
6
SPEAKER_02
It has to be seamless.
6
SPEAKER_02
But it s very interesting, those vaudevillian stars who became movie stars, like the Marx Brothers, and kind of filmed their plays.
6
SPEAKER_00
If you look at the Marx Brothers today, they re not funny.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, the one with Jill leaning against the building.
6
SPEAKER_00
What do you think you re doing?
6
SPEAKER_00
Holding up the building?
6
SPEAKER_00
And he walks away and the building falls down.
6
SPEAKER_00
That was a great comic thing.
6
SPEAKER_00
but mostly walking around.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s not big as they go.
6
SPEAKER_02
Well, I when I was a kid watching reruns was a little too old fashioned for me.
6
SPEAKER_02
I like Jerry Lewis as a kid.
6
SPEAKER_02
Kids.
6
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
But yeah, but the audiences that were being entertained in those early movies were serious people laughing at the Marx Brothers and the Harpo.
6
SPEAKER_00
And today it s like ludicrous.
6
SPEAKER_01
Well, it was, yeah, it was part of that thirties, you know, class.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think I have this smart comedic palette.
6
SPEAKER_01
Meanwhile, I remember howling at Gilligan s Island.
6
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I don t know when I started deciding what was easy, funny, and what was smart, funny, but we were talking about Bob Newhart earlier and Bob Newhart was very dry and I, I liked it for some reason, even though it was dry and I was a kid going.
6
SPEAKER_01
This match was funny but it wasn t really like in your face like a sitcom and then but i like corny shit too so i think overtime my my comedy started decide what you like what you wanna focus on i guess but there but there are.
6
SPEAKER_00
basic tenets of comedy.
6
SPEAKER_00
Seeing the banana peel guy coming, or the guy slipping, and then you see the banana peel.
6
SPEAKER_00
Those academic analysis of comedy.
6
SPEAKER_00
They work.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s absolutely truthful.
6
SPEAKER_00
So, that s funny.
6
SPEAKER_00
You see the fat man coming, you see the banana peel, and he slips, and you laugh.
6
SPEAKER_01
I mean, they re coming to your head.
6
SPEAKER_00
You re like, oh, it s funny.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
It had to be when the guy put his axe down and brought in the dinosaur head.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then they did the joke about slipping on the dinosaur tail that they had to have been laughing a million years ago at that very basic comedy.
6
SPEAKER_00
On the other hand.
6
SPEAKER_00
Slapping on the head and those jokes that the Marx Brothers did, and then the three stooges, you know,
6
SPEAKER_02
hitting people.
6
SPEAKER_00
It was funny then, but not funny now.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I guess that s the changing tastes of funny, although I think there are eternals of comedy that remain from Greek times to now.
6
SPEAKER_02
Well, they say there s only 12 notes and everybody, the Beatles and Beethoven and everybody plays with those notes.
6
SPEAKER_02
And there s probably these basic tenets of comedy and we re just keep redoing the studio.
6
SPEAKER_02
And you try to add a little something.
6
SPEAKER_01
You do your version of that comedy.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like people say, Oh, this movie is similar to that movie.
6
SPEAKER_01
And you re like, but it s two new people doing it 20 years later.
6
SPEAKER_01
And it s just different.
7
SPEAKER_03
but there are certain themes you re going to go into.
7
SPEAKER_03
The old girlfriend comes back, or you do this.
7
SPEAKER_03
So every comedy movie and every movie movie, you know, you re going to fall into the same themes.
7
SPEAKER_03
What are you going to do with it?
7
SPEAKER_03
Are you going to put some spin on it, a little English to make it yours?
7
SPEAKER_02
I was drawn to the musicality of Monty Python and Andy Kaufman and the non-punchline punchline.
7
SPEAKER_01
There s a perfect example of Kaufman.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
7
SPEAKER_01
The reality and how- He played it so straight.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
He played it so straight.
7
SPEAKER_01
In fact, when he was on taxi, that was funny.
7
SPEAKER_01
But when he did the wrestling, that wasn t funny.
7
SPEAKER_03
Right.
7
SPEAKER_03
I was not a huge Andy Kaufman guy.
7
SPEAKER_03
Unpopular opinion.
7
SPEAKER_01
Say that again.
7
SPEAKER_03
I wasn t a huge Andy Kaufman guy, like Mickey Mouse maybe.
7
SPEAKER_03
To me growing up when I was younger, it had to have a payoff or I didn t really get what was going on.
7
SPEAKER_03
And when everything was like wrestling was so straight, if it was a long play, I just wasn t grabbing it.
7
SPEAKER_03
And some of his stuff was really appreciated by a lot of comedians.
7
SPEAKER_03
And I was one of the few going,
7
SPEAKER_01
I don t i like taxi like taxi i got to say what did you think of taxi i did like this performance and i was yeah i got any care it was funny it was a real character yeah and and it was funny the way you talked and we act that was comedy in his attempt.
7
SPEAKER_01
I mean it s a really interesting i d be delighted to hear people talk about it and the coffin did he.
7
SPEAKER_01
desperately look for another gig in being the wrestler?
7
SPEAKER_01
Did he or did he go nuts and think, you know, I mean, what what happened to Andy Kaufman, this wonderful actor?
7
SPEAKER_02
That s a really good question.
7
SPEAKER_02
I don t know.
7
SPEAKER_02
I mean, there was something it was like live
7
SPEAKER_02
gladiatorian theater when he would go there.
7
SPEAKER_02
And then he loved playing.
7
SPEAKER_02
He was satirizing sort of the big time wrestling guy, uh, being an anarchist in the, in the arena and screaming at the crowd.
7
SPEAKER_02
But, uh, the late great Rob Williams told me a story once who knew Andy back in that time.
7
SPEAKER_02
And he met him for lunch or somewhere.
7
SPEAKER_02
And he noticed that Andy had the wrestling clothes on underneath his real clothes.
7
SPEAKER_02
This is just him out in the world.
7
SPEAKER_02
And Robin members saying, Oh, Oh, Andy, what are you doing?
7
SPEAKER_02
What are you doing?
7
SPEAKER_02
Like maybe he tipped over someplace that we don t know, or the line between performance and reality, I don t know.
7
SPEAKER_03
Like you re trying to get people that are guessing ahead of what you re doing, and you re doing this long play, and then you do a joke that s too much of a long play, and you start to lose people because you re out thinking everyone, and at certain point he lost me.
7
SPEAKER_01
Imagine the courage it took for Dick Shawn.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
7
SPEAKER_02
I remember him very well.
7
SPEAKER_02
Died on stage.
7
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
7
SPEAKER_01
So you remember the, the great joke he told of there s old grandpa coming up from the civil war.
7
SPEAKER_01
Here he comes.
7
SPEAKER_01
He walks by the grandpa, the pretend grandpa walks by.
7
SPEAKER_01
He does three minutes preparing you for the grandpa to walk past him.
7
SPEAKER_01
What happens if the audience doesn t laugh?
7
SPEAKER_01
which must happen.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_02
Well, I don t know.
7
SPEAKER_03
How many minutes do you get away with keeping them until they give up?
7
SPEAKER_02
I think there s a lot of anger that floats around in comedy and some of the best comedy.
7
SPEAKER_02
And I do think that Andy had his good measure.
7
SPEAKER_02
I sometimes stay at the park of Meridian in New York and they ll play chaplain shorts in the elevator.
7
SPEAKER_02
And you just go, there s a lot of pathos and it s brilliant, but there s a lot of anger floating around the way he walks and stuff.
7
SPEAKER_02
And comedians sometimes are the bullied ones, sometimes the underdog.
7
SPEAKER_02
And so that always is informing.
7
SPEAKER_02
I mean, I was, before I had therapy, more passive aggressive, people pleasing, this was my disease.
7
SPEAKER_02
But in my characters, the church lady was kind of cruel in a funny way.
7
SPEAKER_02
Hans and Fran said, I could beat you up.
7
SPEAKER_02
You re a loser.
7
SPEAKER_02
So you just wonder, you know, if you turn the sound off and watch certain comedians, you just go, that s kind of an angry walk, you know?
7
SPEAKER_01
Well, and you could name those comedians right now.
7
SPEAKER_01
I know we might get sued.
7
SPEAKER_02
Well, guys, it s been finished with part one.
7
SPEAKER_02
We ll take a break.
7
SPEAKER_02
Bill, I just want to say this has been so much fun and I honestly don t know how you re, you just don t, you seem decades younger as you articulate and philosophize with us and the strength of your voice.
7
SPEAKER_02
I don t really even understand it.
7
SPEAKER_02
I don t even need to have an answer.
7
SPEAKER_02
I m just observing it.
7
SPEAKER_02
I don t have an answer.
7
SPEAKER_02
I don t have to have an answer.
7
SPEAKER_02
Good, I don t have one.
7
SPEAKER_02
But I do think just for the rest of us, and I remember Lorne Michaels saying this, you just keep going.
7
SPEAKER_02
There is no retirement in show business.
7
SPEAKER_02
You just keep going.
7
SPEAKER_02
Well, it s the truth.
7
SPEAKER_01
You just play older people, I guess.
7
SPEAKER_03
I don t know anything else.
7
SPEAKER_03
I can t go be a carpenter now.
7
SPEAKER_01
This is it.
7
SPEAKER_01
There is a stage.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s another thing.
7
SPEAKER_01
When you re in your 20s, I ve got grandchildren who want to be actors.
7
SPEAKER_01
They re 15, 16 years old.
7
SPEAKER_01
So you re 20, 21, you re an actor, you re pretty, boy or girl, you ve got physical beauty, and then you get to be about 30, and you re now half a step behind the 18-year-old coming up.
7
SPEAKER_01
You ve got a decision to make.
7
SPEAKER_01
Are you gonna continue?
7
SPEAKER_01
So now you re going through your passages, and you go through your 30s, and you re still trying to do it.
7
SPEAKER_01
Now you re in your 40s.
7
SPEAKER_01
What are you going to do?
7
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
7
SPEAKER_03
No one thinks that far ahead.
7
SPEAKER_02
No, I think.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_02
I mean, well, what, what about, what about the fifties?
7
SPEAKER_02
What happens in the fifties?
7
SPEAKER_01
It s too late and you re in your fifties.
7
SPEAKER_01
Well, you re both successful, uh, in that you ve made a living, you, uh, achieved, uh, a modicum of fame and you have.
7
SPEAKER_01
some treasure in your talent and in your bedroom.
7
SPEAKER_01
You got white sheets, for God s sake.
7
SPEAKER_01
But there come points in your life
7
SPEAKER_01
that being an actor is, you don t have any skill to fall back on.
7
SPEAKER_01
You can t become a plumber in another, a plumber gains experience and gets to be a better plumber.
7
SPEAKER_01
An actor gains experience and it doesn t matter.
7
SPEAKER_02
Right.
7
SPEAKER_02
Well, when I when I grew up, all the comedians were old.
7
SPEAKER_02
It was just different.
7
SPEAKER_02
You know, Bob Hope, Jack Benny, they re all in their 70s.
7
SPEAKER_02
And, you know.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but they they manufactured a joke.
7
SPEAKER_01
They had a writer or hopefully sometimes they wrote it.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
And they would make a political joke.
7
SPEAKER_01
And it was funny.
7
SPEAKER_01
So, you know, you had a known quantity with a Bob Hope.
7
SPEAKER_01
I want to tell you.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
Jack Benny.
7
SPEAKER_01
You guys are.
7
SPEAKER_01
You guys are.
7
SPEAKER_01
The latter day Bob Hopes.
7
SPEAKER_01
You ll go to an event and be amusing in your character, in your comedy.
7
SPEAKER_01
You ll work till you fall off the stage and that s not funny.
7
SPEAKER_03
Dana s Carol Channing.
7
SPEAKER_03
You can easily...
7
SPEAKER_02
Well, hello, I once punched, I played Regis on a short film and Carol Channing, I was running down the street in New York.
7
SPEAKER_00
I go, I gotta go, I gotta get to David Letterman, I m sorry, I ve gotta go.
7
SPEAKER_00
And Carol Channing was doing a cameo.
7
SPEAKER_02
I m sorry, Carol, I gotta go.
7
SPEAKER_02
And so then I, as Regis, I cold cocked her, knocked her down.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s just stuff you do and show.
7
SPEAKER_00
Dave s waiting for me.
7
SPEAKER_00
I d love to talk to you.
7
SPEAKER_00
Honest to God, you re one of the greatest, but I got to go.
7
SPEAKER_02
Don t you love Regis s voice?
7
SPEAKER_00
I mean, wasn t it just something about it?
7
SPEAKER_00
You know, kid, you re terrific.
7
SPEAKER_00
You do the space things and all.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s beautiful.
7
SPEAKER_00
You got to do a tremendous, tremendous job.
7
SPEAKER_00
Everybody s talking about it.
7
SPEAKER_00
You re the talk of the town.
7
SPEAKER_00
You were Captain Cook.
7
SPEAKER_00
You re Danny Crane.
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Who knows where you re going?
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You re in outer space.
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Ladies and gentlemen, William Shatner was here today.
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And I m telling you something, it was quite a treat.
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Joy and I love you very much.
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I love the charm of Regis.
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Guys, you two are wonderful together.
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You re going to make a smash show.
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We re having fun.
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I m glad to be with you.
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We re so glad to have you on and keep doing what you re doing.
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And we ll have you back the next time you go in space.
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We re having you back.
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Perfect.
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I ll be there.
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Take care, Bill.
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Good luck.
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Pleasure talking to you.
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Be well.
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This has been a podcast presentation of Cadence 13.
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Please listen, then rate, review, and follow all episodes.
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Available now for free wherever you get your podcast.
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No joke, folks.
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Fly on the Wall has been a presentation of Cadence 13, executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Chris Corcoran of Cadence 13, and Charlie Finan of Brillstein Entertainment.
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The show s lead producer is Greg Holtzman with production and engineering support from Serena Regan and Chris Basil of Cadence 13.