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My name is Lee Hawkins.
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I ve been a journalist for over 25 years.
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On my new podcast, What Happened in Alabama, I get answers to some of the hardest questions about how things came to be for many black Americans and the truth that must come before any reconciliation can happen.
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I investigate my family history, my upbringing in Minnesota, and my father s painful nightmares about growing up in Alabama.
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What Happened in Alabama is a new series confronting the cycles of trauma for myself, my family, and for many Black Americans.
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Listen now.
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Dear listeners, it s your friend Tig.
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You ve reached the end of season two.
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I ve put over 75 episodes of Don t Ask Tig into your ears.
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That s a big deal, and I couldn t have done it without you.
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Thank you to all of you for tuning in, spending your time with me, and sharing your problems, secrets,
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and stories.
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I hope you ve learned a few things along the way, or even if you learned absolutely nothing, at least maybe had some laughs.
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Don t Ask Tig will be taking a brief summer break, but we will be back soon with all new episodes.
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And remember, I m still on the road with my Hello Again tour, likely headed to a city near you, like maybe San Diego on July 23rd.
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Get your tickets at TigNotaro.com.
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Now, let s start the show.
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I feel like these days people give like one good piece of advice and they re like, I should write a book where it s like, it s actually important to give good advice and hard to, because everybody is going through a lot of these days.
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And it s like, it s easy to, especially being middle-aged, I think.
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I always say a lot of stuff like that s not going to be a big deal later on, which is not good advice because it s like, if someone s asking you now, they need it now.
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Well, guess who maybe gave some advice and now has an advice podcast.
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Oh, gosh.
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All right.
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Is that how this all happened to you?
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I guess.
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Look, we re here.
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No matter how we got here, we re here, okay?
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This is Don t Ask Tig, I m Tig Notaro, reminding you, stay sexy, don t get murdered, and don t ask me for advice.
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With me now is a standup comedian, producer, and podcaster who co-wrote a book called, Stay Sexy, Don t Get Murdered.
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She was head writer on the Ellen DeGeneres Show, a writer for the FX series, Baskets, and is co-host of the podcast, My Favorite Murder.
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one of the most popular podcasts of all time.
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My pal, Karen Kilgariff.
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Thanks for joining me on my podcast today.
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It s my pleasure to be here.
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You know, this is what I like.
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It s like kind of organized hanging out for the quarantine set.
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It s a produced hanging out.
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It s kind of how I prefer my hangouts because if you don t have a producer to kind of cut you off at an hour, there might be, you know, friendship.
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Yeah, there might be a lot of burdensome relationships that start up.
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So keep it formal.
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That s what I say.
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Uh huh.
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Yeah.
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That s what you ve told me since the day I met you.
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So many times.
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Let s keep this formal.
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Hey, stared back at least four feet.
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And we have.
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I feel like we ve kept it formal, but I think we do like each other.
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Yes.
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I feel like, you know, we would both be sad if we heard bad news about the other person.
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Yes.
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But like, you don t swing by my house unexpectedly.
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Don t you think, though, with kids it s different?
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Because kids just have such a set time.
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It s like four is soccer and they have to eat by six because blank happens at seven or whatever.
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Well, first of all, Stephanie is going to be so excited to hear that we finally have a schedule for our children.
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So thanks for throwing that together.
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Somebody needed to.
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I can give you other options, too, on different days.
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No, I think we re good.
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We just needed somebody to do that.
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The after school planning, we haven t done it for years.
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Are you the type of parents that like, it s 1130 and you re like, boys, you really have to go to bed.
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This is crazy.
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No, our son, Finn, he s really into baseball and baseball stats.
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So he s very into numbers.
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And so he s very into time, time zones, schedules.
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And so he will be like, we should probably go up for our bath now.
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And Max, who is almost twice Finn s size, has no reason to listen to Finn.
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Will be like, I wanted to watch another show.
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And Finn s like, it s getting late, Max.
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And he s like, oh.
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And then they go up and they put themselves in the bath.
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And then Finn s like, we gotta brush our teeth and we gotta get to bed.
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It s almost eight o clock.
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He stays on a schedule and Max doesn t know he s the Hulk yet.
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And so he s ruled by Finn.
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It is the cutest.
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And Stephanie and I are always like, wait until he knows that he doesn t have to listen to him.
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Yeah, the dawning of that information for him is going to be amazing.
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But I also like picturing while Finn is running the show like that, like you and Stephanie are like binge watching something like, keep it down over there.
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Take care of that business upstairs.
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Talk about it elsewhere.
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Take this nonsense up to your room.
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Hey, Max, we got to get out of here.
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We got to get our nonsense upstairs.
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That s really the cutest.
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It is so cute.
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And I already apologize for going on about them.
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No, I like it.
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I like that you re a parent.
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I think it s really, it gives me a lot of like,
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I won t say hope, that s a little dramatic, but it s kind of just that thing of like, oh, we don t have to just be like comics riffing at a party the rest of our lives.
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Like more can come, more can bloom from all of this.
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Yeah, and it s not even just with kids, but there s so much blooming in life, which is exciting.
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It s true.
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I m thankful for it.
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Me too.
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And I was just on your, as we were talking about earlier, I was on both of your podcasts on, do you need a ride with my old, not just roommate, but almost legal spouse.
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We lived together for almost 10 years.
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What a pair.
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I mean, if you thought Max and Finn were funny, you should see what these two, you re like,
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Come on, Chris, I think you should get off the floor.
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We probably should write some new jokes.
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Chris Fairbanks, your co-host of Do You Need a Ride, he and I did a show together in Boise, Idaho years ago, and we had
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so much painful fun, crying, laughing.
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And he was going through a breakup.
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And I was just signing papers for a new house in Venice.
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And I was like, Do you want to just live with me?
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And he was like, Sure.
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And then he just moved into my house into a room that wasn t even a bedroom.
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But it s where he lived.
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Yeah.
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And then I was on my favorite murder.
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So um,
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We re kind of back-to-back, those two eras.
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You living with Chris, and then that brought you to your appearance on My Favorite Murderer.
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Exactly.
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And now here you are.
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And now here I am.
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What would you say about murder keeps you coming back, as well as all of the listeners that you have?
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I feel like, first of all, it was like my mom was a big reader and so she always had like paperbacks on the nightstand.
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She was a psychiatric nurse, the head nurse of a psychiatric hospital all week long.
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So on the weekend, she d be like, I m going to lay up in the bed and I m going to drink like tea and just plow through whatever Ann Rule just wrote or
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I remember her reading Jaws in a day.
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She was that kind of person of like, I just need to decompress and just basically read and escape.
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But I basically was like, what s so good about these books?
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And so then I started sneaking them when I was probably too young to be reading the latest Anne Rule, The Stranger Beside Me, about how she worked with Ted Bundy and thought he was great and tried to set him up with her friend.
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And you were how old?
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Like 10, I think.
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Wow.
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When I was a teenager, or like an adolescent, I should say, everyone read Judy Blume books.
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But then, like somewhere in like late 70s, early 80s, Judy Blume wrote Wifey, which was like an adult book that was dirty from page one.
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And I shouldn t say dirty, that s so Catholic of me.
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It was, you know, just erotic.
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I don t know.
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All I know is that I stole it off my mom s nightstand and read it and was like, are you kidding me?
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It was like a complete eye opener of what are these adults getting up to?
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So I think I got into like, that it was all forbidden, but especially those, and rule books were just like, once you were reading it, it was like, oh, this is real and this really happened to someone.
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And I think the first Anne Rule book I read was the one about Diane Downs, who was a woman who killed her children because her boyfriend didn t want kids.
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And it is one of the... As a kid, reading it, you re just like, sorry, what?
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Like, this is possible in the world.
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And she was, you know, a complete, I believe, like, diagnosed psychopath, so...
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she just didn t kind of care, and it was like whatever she wanted all the time.
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That story hooked me in, and Ann Rule s writing hooked me in.
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And then the idea that that s when I knew I had suspected before, but then I really knew.
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They were all keeping stuff from me, and they were not telling me the truth all the time.
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They were like, adults knew stuff that kids didn t know.
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And so I wanted to know everything.
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I wanted to know what they knew.
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Yeah.
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But you re clearly drawn to not just knowing what adults know, but murder.
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And not everyone has the same upbringing as you.
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So what is drawing everybody to this?
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Well, there s, you know, lots of answers, but the one I was thinking about most recently is it s a really good way to control the horror that you take in in your life.
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And especially lately, like things are very bad and scary and threatening.
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So I think there s a way of looking at true crime and going like, okay, I m going to sit here and for an hour, I m just focusing on this and I can kind of control the anxiety level and I can, it ll go up and it ll come down.
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And it s like, I m in charge as opposed to the way everything else actually works.
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Do you think there s any part where people can make themselves feel normal by looking at other people s cuckoo?
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I think absolutely, where you re like, I had this shitty upbringing.
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Both my parents worked and we were home by ourselves after school.
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And it s like, oh, really?
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Did you know about Diane Downs  children?
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Because she shot them.
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And one survived and actually had to go to court against her as a child.
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It s a context setter, it s a reality check.
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Yeah, I think a lot of those things that really all fall under the category of like anxiety alleviators in a very strange, ironic way.
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I know for myself, that s what I walk away from when I m watching any sort of true crime or documentary and you re just like, what?
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What?
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And then you go back to your life and you re like, things are all right.
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Yeah.
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You re like, ah, all the doors are locked and we re good.
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We re set.
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First of all, we have doors.
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Yes.
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And they are locked.
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One of the major themes on your podcast is that women often get killed for being polite.
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Would you say that your advice to women is not to worry so much about politeness?
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I m sure you re familiar with Gavin DeBecker and the book The Gift of Fear.
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Yeah, and I remember reading that years ago, and he talked a lot about that, where people won t cross the street and listen to their gut because they don t want to offend somebody.
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Yes.
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We said early on, and it was just essentially like, f*** politeness, because story after story that we would tell, it would come up where someone would
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exactly what you said, get the sense, I m in danger or I don t like this person, I can t explain why.
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And instead of following that and getting out or getting away or telling another person, they stay on the date or they stay in the car or whatever, they don t lock the car.
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That s one that
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gets me in terms of like how much women are told and talked to about their behavior.
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And like, it s unattractive if you re like that.
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Or there s these very strange ways that I think society has kind of restricted women where that s actually a concern of like this stranger that s actually scaring me might think I m a bitch, therefore I m not going to protect myself.
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Like if you really just lay that out, it s absolutely insane.
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So it s just that idea, I think, after the sixth story that we read where there was some piece of that of, I was worried about how it would look.
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It s just like, yeah, that because who gives a lock your door and peel out or do what you need to do.
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And it was kind of surprising because I think
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the upbringing I had, that was very normal to know that that was my right to do and I didn t have to worry about how it looked or what anyone s opinion was.
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But I think there s a lot of young women that are raised exactly the opposite way of like, go kiss your uncle, do the thing that you think is gross because it s polite or whatever.
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Right.
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My upbringing was not perfect by any stretch of anybody s imagination, but I am endlessly thankful that
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My mother would always encourage me to tell anyone to go to hell that had a problem with me or that I if I was uncomfortable They can go to hell.
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Yeah, tell them to go to hell, you know, and it s just like it s embedded in Who I am
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And I feel like it s been life-saving in certain ways that I ll never know about, probably.
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Right.
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It s almost like it set in you this kind of like, almost like these guardrails.
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My mother did the same thing.
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It was, I think she used to call it like a healthy disrespect.
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Because my mom was an only child, both her parents were alcoholics.
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So she kind of had to raise herself in a lot of ways.
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And so she was very much like,
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Just because it s an adult doesn t mean you have to listen to them.
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I remember one time we had a, my friend s mom was, she was pretty nuts and we went down.
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It was one of those classic kid things where it made perfect sense to us.
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We were walking down her hill, because we were out in the country, and the kids from the cross street were walking up this field.
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And we kind of met in the middle.
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We all went to the same school.
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And we met in the middle at this huge hole.
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And it was easily 25 feet across.
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I don t know if the farmer nearby was digging
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a hole for like to bury dead cows.
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Who knows what they were doing, but it was just a big hole and we all kind of were standing around it and like looking at it like, wow.
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And then it started raining and we re like, everybody in the hole.
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So we all got in there and just started mud fighting and it was like an hour of absolute joy.
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Like it was one of the most fun- Why didn t you call me?
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It was 1977.
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I ll never forget.
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It was me and Heidi Lilly, Bonnie Conover, Kevin Conover, like the kids in this neighborhood.
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Because it was all like when we met there, it was very coincidental, but it was also kind of like, are we in a fight?
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Like, is this good or bad?
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Like, no one was sure.
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And then suddenly it was just like, it s the party of a lifetime.
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But then when we got out of the hole and we tried to walk back to the house, my friend s mom was standing on the back porch and she was enraged.
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Like she snapped and she was like, you little f**kers, get in this house right now.
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And I was like, I stopped.
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I d never heard an adult say the F word.
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Adults did not speak like that to kids in our house, like ever.
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And it really shook me.
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And we got, she screamed at us like,
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all through getting our muddy clothes off and the whole thing.
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And then my mom came to pick me up and she s like, what s wrong with you?
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Why are you so quiet?
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Because of course I was never quiet.
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And I started crying.
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I was like, so-and-so hold us, whatever.
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And by that point we were at my aunt Jean s house.
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And my mother was like, what?
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And she got so pissed.
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And my cousin Cheryl, who was like 17 at the time, was like,
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you should have told her to fuck off.
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And then my mom went and called this woman and was like, if you ever talk to my daughter like that again.
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And it was this thing where it s like, oh yeah, it doesn t matter if I got mud all over my clothes.
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It doesn t matter if what we did was the dumb kid thing.
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You don t get to talk to me like that.
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And I don t have to take that from you.
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It was a very empowering thing to be fought for in a way of like, I don t give a shit what they did.
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You re in the wrong, never again.
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I got to witness things like that, where I was told in action and words, no one gets to treat you that way.
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And it was a huge advantage, I think.
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That s great.
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Stephanie told me this really funny story because we were watching
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A cartoon with our sons and there was like the bad guy that was like, yeah You know and really scary looking and stephanie said oh my gosh.
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I just remembered When I was little there was some show we were watching with a scary looking bad guy and my mom goes Oh, what is this?
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Why are they making a bad guy look like this bad guys look like dads businessmen your neighbor
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Quit teaching people and kids that the bad guy looks and acts like that.
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I mean, that s the thing that it feels like they can t get through the average person s head of like, yeah, the bad guy or woman could be a teacher at the school.
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It s like they hide in plain sight.
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That s the whole game of those people.
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They re not always dragging their knuckles with rotten teeth going, I m gonna get you.
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Karen, it s, I was gonna say sadly time for listener questions.
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Sadly time for the point of the podcast.
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Well, no, I love getting to this point, but I also love talking to you.
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Are you ready to give advice?
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I am.
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Okay, first up, we have a listener who needs help finding their voice.
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And Karen, you might be just the person to help with their particular problem.
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Okay.
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Anna writes, sometimes when I m tired or when I talk to my parents on the phone or when I ask a favor of anyone, I slip into a weird high-pitched voice that my partner calls a quote-unquote baby voice.
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It s creepy and I think it makes me sound like a serial killer.
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Any advice on how to kill the habit?
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Uh.
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You know, it s funny because I talk about this well, I noticed it in myself my voice when I was telling the truth and when I was not and I noticed when I fell in love with Stephanie that it was very different than Relationships before because I would speak about them and this is nothing against anybody But it was just where I was but I would speak in this tone where I was like, yeah, it s good I
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Yeah, you know, we ll see.
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And then when I fell in love with Stephanie and somebody would ask, my voice was so direct.
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I was like, she is the most incredible person.
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I love her so much.
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And that was just like the most honest place where my voice would fall, right there.
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Yes, because my assessment of that is that your internal truth doesn t need any extra.
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So when you have that voice, it s you re dealing with something where you feel you need to hide who you really are, maybe, or that you re not safe to actually be there authentically.
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Because it s fight, flight, freeze, and then there s fawn, where when you fawn, you re trying to make yourself more appealing to the person so they don t
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whatever, cause you harm in any way.
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So that s one of the things of like your voice going up, you becoming, you know, like shrinking down a little bit, curling your shoulders forward, like having small posture or whatever.
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It s a way of saying, don t hurt me without actually saying it out loud.
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So I think Anna has the kind of anxiety that might make her feel she needs to do that before she talks to that person, she needs to actually figure out what the problem is.
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Yeah, it s really fascinating when people change their voices because there s a few people in my life and I hope they re listening.
1
SPEAKER_04
When they have to say certain things, they do change their voice or they ll say it in a weird accent or in a weird character.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I often am thinking,
1
SPEAKER_04
I wonder why they re uncomfortable right now.
1
SPEAKER_04
Like, what is it about what they re saying is making them so deeply uncomfortable that they re changing their voice?
1
SPEAKER_04
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_04
It is something that Anna should look at.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I know she s listening going, uh, yeah, I know.
1
SPEAKER_04
This is looking at it, writing a letter.
1
SPEAKER_01
My ex-husband used to do an impression of me when I had to call.
1
SPEAKER_01
If I had to call to fix a problem, say like,
1
SPEAKER_01
I had to return shoes at Zappos or whatever, but there was such a problem that I had to actually call and talk to somebody on the phone.
1
SPEAKER_01
He would do this impression where you go, oh, my name s Karen.
1
SPEAKER_01
I know this.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, that I would start at such a strangely high babyish pitch because I was going in knowing it wasn t going to work.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, I know they re not going to give me my money back, or I know they re not going to help me.
1
SPEAKER_01
The thing I hate the most in the world is asking for help and not getting it.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s like I should have just done this myself.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I m bringing a lot of feelings to a very standard phone call or exchange that the average person s like, who gives a shit if the operator at Zappos thinks you re irresponsible or whatever, you ll get through it.
1
SPEAKER_01
But it s almost like this kind of
1
SPEAKER_01
I want this thing, and I m pretty sure I m not gonna get it, so I m trying any way I can.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_04
Anna, I don t know if that s advice, other than to just think about it.
1
SPEAKER_04
Try and figure out where this might be coming from, because that, I think, will lead you to making a change.
1
SPEAKER_01
What if Anna makes a list of the names of the people that she feels her voice goes up around, and the people that she can have her normal voice that she doesn t even think about it with?
1
SPEAKER_01
And then,
1
SPEAKER_01
she invites all those people on the high voice list to a dinner party.
1
SPEAKER_01
Kind of like Clue, although they know she s the one that invited them.
1
SPEAKER_03
And that s straight out of Karen Kilgareth s whispery mouth.
1
SPEAKER_03
We wish you good luck with your baby voice.
1
SPEAKER_01
Or you could actually go more into it and try to get it even higher and be like, if I m going to do this, I might as well be like, don t go for like a toddler, go for like an infant.
1
SPEAKER_04
Ooh, and she could put on a bonnet, wear a diaper, and hold a rattle.
1
SPEAKER_01
But have a cigar like the cartoon baby that was a mafia guy dressed like a baby.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_04
All right.
1
SPEAKER_04
Well, there we go.
1
SPEAKER_04
I think we ve fixed everything.
1
SPEAKER_04
Solved.
1
SPEAKER_04
Karen, let s take a break, but stay put because we ll be back shortly with more questions.
1
SPEAKER_00
a six billion dollar con.
1
SPEAKER_00
It didn t take long for it to spread like wildfire.
1
SPEAKER_00
You got to take a look at this really crazy gold stock.
1
SPEAKER_00
A buddy of mine got in at a dime.
1
SPEAKER_00
Which destroyed lives and devastated communities.
1
SPEAKER_00
Every little town across the nation, people have shares in this.
1
SPEAKER_00
We lost everything.
1
SPEAKER_00
And to date, no one has been brought to justice.
1
SPEAKER_04
Somebody knows more than we know.
1
SPEAKER_00
The $6 billion gold scam from the BBC World Service and CBC.
1
SPEAKER_00
Search for the $6 billion gold scam wherever you get your podcasts.
1
SPEAKER_04
And we re back.
1
SPEAKER_04
Karen, this next one is from a listener who needs help figuring out the psychology of their partner.
1
SPEAKER_03
Oh.
1
SPEAKER_04
LK writes, my beloved spouse and I get along fantastically except for one thing.
1
SPEAKER_04
Anytime I recommend a show, book, article, etc.
1
SPEAKER_04
to her, some switch goes off in her brain that makes her avoid that thing like the plague.
1
SPEAKER_04
She takes other people s recommendations, just not mine.
1
SPEAKER_04
She can t really explain why, but whenever I mention I ve really loved something and suggest she check it out, she smiles and nods, but I can see in her eyes she s thinking, well, now that thing is dead to me.
1
SPEAKER_04
I will shun it for the rest of my days.
1
SPEAKER_04
Why, Tig?
1
SPEAKER_04
Why is she like this?
1
SPEAKER_04
Please feel free to speculate freely.
1
SPEAKER_04
I told her I really like your show, so she is definitely not listening.
1
SPEAKER_04
Well, LK, aren t you a funny person?
1
SPEAKER_04
It s such a real problem though.
1
SPEAKER_01
That is so true.
1
SPEAKER_04
Oh, my gosh.
1
SPEAKER_04
One of my favorite books, and I had the author on Don t Ask Tig.
1
SPEAKER_04
Martha Beck wrote The Way of Integrity, and I could not recommend it enough to Stephanie.
1
SPEAKER_04
I was like, read this book.
1
SPEAKER_04
It is so good.
1
SPEAKER_04
It just changed
1
SPEAKER_04
My life in so many ways and I felt like I could see Stephanie connecting to a lot of the same topics and she just
1
SPEAKER_04
Nope, wouldn t touch the thing.
1
SPEAKER_04
And meanwhile, she always has a stack of books up to the ceiling, always reading a book, wouldn t touch that book.
1
SPEAKER_04
And then I d come in town and still nothing.
1
SPEAKER_04
Did you read Martha Beck s book?
1
SPEAKER_04
No.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I will, and then wouldn t.
1
SPEAKER_04
And then one time, oh, she read Martha Beck s book.
1
SPEAKER_04
And she was like, I can t believe I waited this long to read The Way of Integrity.
1
SPEAKER_04
But then also, she recommends things to me, and I just am like, yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I don t know, for me, it s a matter of like, when on earth am I going to have time to watch an entire series that lasted for seven years, you know?
1
SPEAKER_04
And she ll be like, I ll watch The Sopranos all over again with you.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I m like, I...
1
SPEAKER_01
It s all, it s all too much.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like it s, it s not just, and maybe this is a piece of it.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m thinking of me and my sister doing this cause I ignore her all the time.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then I totally come around seven years later.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m like, Oh my God, Friday night lights was good.
1
SPEAKER_01
And she s like, it s too late.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I think it s because when a person doesn t just recommend, but like, please, you have to, then what you re doing is giving them a homework assignment and B pretty much that person knows if they re not coming back with the same opinion, then that s a problem area.
1
SPEAKER_01
So it could be a person that s like, how about we keep all this neutral and we don t have a disagreement about,
1
SPEAKER_01
the thing you love that I might not love as much as you.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that makes sense.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I just think it s probably pretty common in a relationship, which is hilarious, because in the beginning, if somebody says, you got to read this, you d be reading it immediately.
1
SPEAKER_04
And you d call the next day with no and be like, I love this book.
1
SPEAKER_04
And here I ve dog-eared all of the pages and highlighted.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I would love to discuss with you your favorite parts.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s my favorite thing when you have a crush on a person secretly and they mention a thing and it s just like, well, watch me become the expert on this thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
Or just like, it s a very creepy, it s like kind of parallel to stalking where it s just like, you re trying to slightly slip into their skin of like, I like it too.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes, that s my thing too.
1
SPEAKER_01
Me too.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes, me too.
1
SPEAKER_04
I was just about to say that, but you be me too.
1
SPEAKER_04
Oh, my gosh.
1
SPEAKER_04
Listen, LK, I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_04
There s not advice in there.
1
SPEAKER_04
It s just basically... You re not alone.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, you re not alone.
1
SPEAKER_04
And that s just how it is.
1
SPEAKER_04
But your question was really funny.
1
SPEAKER_01
It was really... It touched on a thing that I think happens in almost every kind of relationship, too.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like my sibling
1
SPEAKER_01
You know what I mean?
1
SPEAKER_01
Every sibling, spouse, kind of like where it s just like, don t, it s, I have had a life standing, don t tell me what to do attitude.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it applies to anything and everything.
1
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, I mean, including books.
1
SPEAKER_04
I just wanted it to end in this awkward, quiet moment where you re like, nobody tell me what to do.
1
SPEAKER_04
and we ll fade out there, all right?
1
SPEAKER_04
LK, maybe try some reverse psychology and recommend your spouse not listen to my podcast or not read a book, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, burn books in your backyard and see what that kind of conversation kicks off.
1
SPEAKER_04
Do that for the environment, LK.
1
SPEAKER_04
We re going to take a quick break to answer a question that came in our therapy etiquette box.
1
SPEAKER_04
This segment is where we answer those awkward questions we all have as people getting the professional help we need and deserve, and is sponsored by BetterHelp Online Therapy.
1
SPEAKER_04
Emma writes, how do I tell my therapist that I don t think our sessions are dynamic, I guess?
1
SPEAKER_04
are working for me.
1
SPEAKER_04
I feel weird because they re supposed to be the expert, but I ve got feedback I want to give and I don t want to offend them or seem like a know-it-all or just ghost them, especially since I m the one coming in for help.
1
SPEAKER_04
Emma, I totally hear your concern here and also see that you are a considerate, kind person.
1
SPEAKER_04
I wonder if we were at a restaurant, would you tell our server if the kitchen got your order wrong?
1
SPEAKER_04
In that kind of situation, I would encourage you to speak up.
1
SPEAKER_04
The person providing the service to you here
1
SPEAKER_04
needs to know so they can either address a situation and you can really get what you need.
1
SPEAKER_04
And you came to therapy because you needed help.
1
SPEAKER_04
I trust that you re a tactful person and that you can deliver feedback in a way that isn t an attack on your therapist.
1
SPEAKER_04
Just keep it simple and stick to the facts.
1
SPEAKER_04
If you told your therapist what you just wrote in to tell me, I think that s a really great starting point.
1
SPEAKER_04
And remember, this type of situation happens all the time.
1
SPEAKER_04
Your therapist
1
SPEAKER_04
is an expert in psychology and other clinically mandated skills, they aren t necessarily an expert in you.
1
SPEAKER_04
So the sooner you have this conversation, the sooner you can move on to getting the expert help that you need from a person who you truly connect with.
1
SPEAKER_04
I hope that s been helpful or at least somewhat reassuring.
1
SPEAKER_04
We want to hear from you.
1
SPEAKER_04
Send us your therapy etiquette-related questions at DontAskTig.org.
1
SPEAKER_04
Thanks to our sponsor, BetterHelp.
1
SPEAKER_04
Now let s get back to our conversation with the hilarious Karen Kilgareth.
1
SPEAKER_04
Karen, it s time for our last segment, and we call this one Come Back to Me Later.
1
SPEAKER_02
Come back to me later.
1
SPEAKER_04
Everyone wishes they had the perfect response at the ready for certain social interactions.
1
SPEAKER_04
Come back to me later is the segment where we make that wish come true.
1
SPEAKER_04
Peyton writes, 25 years ago when I was 18, I left my small town to be on one of the very first reality shows.
1
SPEAKER_04
I had no idea what I was getting into, and when the show aired, I had a hard time adjusting to being in a national spotlight.
1
SPEAKER_04
The poor choices I made in my teens and early 20s just kept coming back up over and over.
1
SPEAKER_04
Now I m 43, married to a wonderful man, have two young kids, and have done a lot of work to heal, but I still get recognized occasionally and realize this isn t going away no matter how much I d like it to.
1
SPEAKER_04
I d like to own it a little more gracefully, but how do I do that?
1
SPEAKER_01
I absolutely empathize.
1
SPEAKER_01
I auditioned for Real World San Francisco when I was 19.
1
SPEAKER_01
And every day I thank the Lord that I just sent in a tape and never heard anything back.
1
SPEAKER_01
Because can you imagine?
1
SPEAKER_01
I would be permanently devastated because I was a lunatic.
1
SPEAKER_04
And like... You would not be sitting here today if you were on the Real World San Francisco.
1
SPEAKER_04
No way.
1
SPEAKER_01
No.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think the children of today are much more empathetic than maybe you think.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, yeah, I get it.
1
SPEAKER_01
You don t want people in the grocery store to be like, oh, were you that jerk or something?
1
SPEAKER_01
That feels bad.
1
SPEAKER_01
But if you re thinking of it in terms of, like, the way people look at pop culture, I feel like a lot of people are very smart about knowing that the early people on reality shows did not know what they were signing up for.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, they didn t know it was coming.
1
SPEAKER_04
They get a pass, for sure.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think so, for sure.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_04
But it sounds like he s still running into this, where people are coming up and saying something, and it seems like it s unavoidable, but, like, what should he say to be graceful in those moments?
1
SPEAKER_04
I mean, I know, without even having a history of being on a reality show, there s still times where being a public figure, where,
1
SPEAKER_04
You hope you can be more graceful or you wish you would have been or sometimes you can t and it s just kind of part of the.
1
SPEAKER_01
The whole bag i think there s a really something and they gave the answer themselves really where it s like.
1
SPEAKER_01
if you can fake a laugh, you know, act as if, the old AA style, act as if, and then be like, I know, can you imagine if you were on a reality show when you were 19?
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, turn it back of like, what would your, what would, how bad would you feel right now?
1
SPEAKER_01
Because like, you can see how bad you want me to feel.
1
SPEAKER_01
Where just like, yeah, God forbid there would be video going around of the bullshit I was doing, like in my early 20s.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s horrifying.
1
SPEAKER_04
Or yeah, you could say like, you know what, thankfully there s a new chapter in life or thankfully life goes on and there s twists and turns and here s my new twist and turn in life and you know.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, how about it s been 30 years luckily that s, you know, I ve put some time between me and that old version of me.
1
SPEAKER_04
Don t make me grow a mustache.
1
SPEAKER_01
How about that?
1
SPEAKER_04
That s what I tell everyone.
1
SPEAKER_04
Don t make me grow a mustache.
1
SPEAKER_03
Oh, she ll do it too.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think you have to get right with yourself a little bit so that it just doesn t bother you as much.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I am not saying that in a dismissive way because I really do
1
SPEAKER_01
think it s unfair how truly railroaded people on early reality shows were.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, it was like, there was kind of no morals about it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Everybody was cast as a person.
1
SPEAKER_01
So it was like, you re the bitch, you re the drunk girl, you re the asshole, you re the racist, you re the whatever, you know?
1
SPEAKER_01
That s how they produced those shows.
1
SPEAKER_01
It was all for maximum conflict.
1
SPEAKER_04
Aren t they still like that or no?
1
SPEAKER_04
Not really?
1
SPEAKER_01
I think so.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I think people are so hip now.
1
SPEAKER_01
People know how to be on TV now.
1
SPEAKER_01
So they know.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think it would have been really easy if it was like 1992 or whatever to truly forget the camera.
2
SPEAKER_03
If this person s, like, saying they... Or camera woman, or camera person.
2
SPEAKER_03
Or camera person.
2
SPEAKER_03
Um, my apologies.
2
SPEAKER_03
I m very sexist.
2
SPEAKER_03
But, like, if this is a person who was on, say, Big Brother, my heart bleeds for you.
2
SPEAKER_03
Or Big Sister.
2
SPEAKER_03
Or Big Person.
2
SPEAKER_03
Or Big Person.
2
SPEAKER_03
Which, please, don t body shame that person.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, just maybe figure out a way to make a t-shirt with your face on it and kind of turn the tide with merch.
2
SPEAKER_03
How about this?
2
SPEAKER_03
A person comes up and says, hey, are you that person that I used to see on the reality show?
2
SPEAKER_03
And then they pull a magician s bouquet of flowers out of their sleeve.
2
SPEAKER_03
Graceful, distracting.
2
SPEAKER_02
There you are, Peyton.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think Karen has the answer for you.
2
SPEAKER_02
And after you hand them fake flowers out of your sleeve of the t-shirt that has your face on it,
2
SPEAKER_02
So you have it way down in your armpits because it s a short-sleeved t-shirt.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s crumpled up on your chest and you pull it out through your arm hole.
2
SPEAKER_02
But yeah, just I think you need to find a way to understand why you went on the reality show, forgive yourself somehow through therapy or for doing whatever it is that you did that is uncomfortable for you, and then just do a light-hearted like
2
SPEAKER_02
reference to where your life is now, and that that was a step that led you to the incredible life that you have now, 25 years later, and have a good day, right?
2
SPEAKER_03
Or?
2
SPEAKER_03
I have one more.
2
SPEAKER_03
That was my twin.
2
SPEAKER_02
Goodbye, walking away already.
2
SPEAKER_02
That was my twin Clayton.
2
SPEAKER_03
Clayton and Peyton, the twins that live down the street.
2
SPEAKER_03
Invite them over to your birthday party.
2
SPEAKER_02
One got on the reality show and one didn t.
2
SPEAKER_03
And one became a neurosurgeon.
2
SPEAKER_03
That s right.
2
SPEAKER_03
Oh, you re thinking of my twin Peyton.
2
SPEAKER_03
I m the smart one, Clayton.
2
SPEAKER_02
Have we done it?
2
SPEAKER_02
First of all, best of luck.
2
SPEAKER_02
And Karen, yeah, we ve done it.
2
SPEAKER_02
That is the end of the show.
2
SPEAKER_02
We did it.
2
SPEAKER_02
Wow, that went fast.
2
SPEAKER_02
It flies.
2
SPEAKER_03
Do you think we helped anybody?
2
SPEAKER_03
No.
2
SPEAKER_02
I never have.
2
SPEAKER_03
No way.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s impossible.
2
SPEAKER_02
No, I think we may have helped a couple people.
2
SPEAKER_02
I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s been a real hoot to have you, Karen.
2
SPEAKER_03
Thank you so much for having me.
2
SPEAKER_03
It was fun to make up answers to real problems.
2
SPEAKER_03
Karen, what would you like to promote?
2
SPEAKER_03
I have a podcast called My Favorite Murder with Georgia Hardstark, and I have a podcast called Do You Need a Ride with the great Chris Fairbanks, and both of them are on the Exactly Right Podcast Network.
2
SPEAKER_03
Incredible.
2
SPEAKER_03
And that s it.
2
SPEAKER_02
I really always enjoy seeing you and talking to you.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I ll say it every day that I can.
2
SPEAKER_02
You re one of the funniest people that I know.
2
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I just can t wait for the big bump that your podcasts are going to get from my podcast.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_03
So do not ask me, Tig.
2
SPEAKER_03
All right, Karen.
2
SPEAKER_03
Thank you.
2
SPEAKER_03
I adore you.
2
SPEAKER_03
It s been so fun talking to you.
2
SPEAKER_03
Let s do it in real life.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yes, please.
2
SPEAKER_03
This is the life I want to be leading.
2
SPEAKER_03
I want Finn to tell me when to go to bed.
2
SPEAKER_03
I want my life to be organized by your child.
2
SPEAKER_02
Karen, it s getting late.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s almost 8 o clock.
2
SPEAKER_02
We should be taking a bath and in our pajamas by now.
2
SPEAKER_02
All right, Karen, well, thank you again.
2
SPEAKER_02
Absolutely.
2
SPEAKER_02
And goodbye.
2
SPEAKER_02
Goodbye, friend.
2
SPEAKER_02
Goodbye.
2
SPEAKER_02
And don t forget, Don t Ask Tig will be taking a short summer break, but we will be back with more episodes soon.
2
SPEAKER_02
In the meantime, I m still on the road doing live and in-person shows on my Hello Again tour, like San Diego, July 23rd, and other shows near you, I m sure.
2
SPEAKER_02
Tickets are at TigNotaro.com.
2
SPEAKER_02
I ll see you there.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s so much I want you to see.
2
SPEAKER_01
I wish that I could give you the answers.
2
SPEAKER_01
I wish that I could make you believe.
2
SPEAKER_01
I wish that I could put you on your path and set you free.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s what you are.
2
SPEAKER_02
Don t Ask Tig is hosted by me, Tig Notaro.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s produced by Thomas Ouellette, Shana Deloria, and Ryan Lohr.
2
SPEAKER_02
Our executive producer and editor is Beth Perlman.
2
SPEAKER_02
Sound mixing by Derek Ramirez and Rachel Brees.
2
SPEAKER_02
Digital production by James Napoli.
2
SPEAKER_02
Talent booking by Marianne Ways.
2
SPEAKER_02
Production support from Pizza Shark.
2
SPEAKER_02
Our theme music is Friend and Tig by Edie Burkell and Kyle Krushem, and Listen to Your Heart by Edie Burkell.
2
SPEAKER_02
Special thanks to Hunter Seidman.
2
SPEAKER_02
APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Kavati, Alex Schaffert, and Joanne Griffith.
2
SPEAKER_02
Concept developed by Tracy Mumford.
2
SPEAKER_02
Our executive consultant is Dean Capello and Gobsmack Studios.
2
SPEAKER_02
You can always ask for advice at DontAskTig.org.
2
SPEAKER_02
Just write in with your problem or send us a voice memo.
2
SPEAKER_02
Remember to follow us on social media at DontAskTig.
2
SPEAKER_02
DontAskTig is a production of American Public Media.
2
SPEAKER_02
And as always, thanks, Dana, and I ll tell Becky.
2
SPEAKER_00
A six billion dollar con.
2
SPEAKER_00
It didn t take long for it to spread like wildfire.
2
SPEAKER_00
You got to take a look at this really crazy gold stock.
2
SPEAKER_00
A buddy of mine got in at a dime.
2
SPEAKER_00
Which destroyed lives and devastated communities.
2
SPEAKER_00
Every little town across the nation, people have shares in this.
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We lost everything.
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And to date, no one has been brought to justice.
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Somebody knows more than we know.
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The $6 billion gold scam from the BBC World Service and CBC.
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Search for the $6 billion gold scam wherever you get your podcasts.