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My name is Lee Hawkins.
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I ve been a journalist for over 25 years.
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On my new podcast, What Happened in Alabama, I get answers to some of the hardest questions about how things came to be for many black Americans and the truth that must come before any reconciliation can happen.
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I investigate my family history, my upbringing in Minnesota, and my father s painful nightmares about growing up in Alabama.
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What Happened in Alabama is a new series confronting the cycles of trauma for myself, my family, and for many Black Americans.
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Listen now.
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Hey listeners, remember that Don t Ask Tig won a Webby Award for best advice slash how to podcast episode for our conversation with the spectacular Esther Perel?
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Well, last week I got to travel to New York to accept the award in person.
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You know, it was a really fun evening.
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I also got to go with producers of the show and see old friends in the audience and make some new friends.
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And a highlight, I have to say, for the night was Anita Hill wandered up and was talking in the same group that I was.
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And if I can just brag for a second, she knew who I was.
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I was looking at her thinking how truly groundbreaking her actions were and how she was very much a person of the evening where the crowd went wild.
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But I did think in that moment, do people really stop and think back on how long ago that was?
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I mean, 91, that was so recent and yet so long ago.
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I truly can t even put it into words.
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I m just blown away about speaking up about sexual harassment within her peers and on such a public world stage.
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And then to be made fun of by so many people and not believed.
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And now everything she endured.
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And then to see her, I mean, obviously there s plenty of people that aren t
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fans of hers.
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I mean, it s very similar to Monica Lewinsky.
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But it is nice to see all these years later, and sad that it is all these years later, people like Monica and Anita Hill are greeted with standing ovations and the respect that they deserve.
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I feel strongly that they deserve.
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So it was just to make it a selfish moment.
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SPEAKER_03
Gosh, was it fun to have her know who I was?
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I knew who she was.
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SPEAKER_03
I mean, come on.
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I know who she was.
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SPEAKER_03
I don t think she s talking to anybody about how I knew who she was.
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SPEAKER_03
I think it s just that she s a reminder of how far the country has come and has to go, but also a reminder that she s just a person.
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SPEAKER_03
I mean, she was at the awards show just eating a breadstick like me and everybody else.
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SPEAKER_03
It wasn t just the two of us eating breadsticks.
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SPEAKER_03
Everybody there was eating breadsticks.
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SPEAKER_03
Ah, OK.
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SPEAKER_03
Anyway, in other news, please remember that my Hello Again tour is still on the road.
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And for tickets, go to TigNotaro.com.
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SPEAKER_03
Anita, if you re listening, I d love to see you at a show.
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She s not listening.
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SPEAKER_03
OK, let s get on with the show.
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SPEAKER_01
The loveliest guy is just to sit and talk with because he was, he was so, he had a window into another world where it was very bizarre, but very kind.
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His favorite thing was to toast.
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He would say, you know, I d rather be here with you tonight than to be with the finest people in the world.
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He was just awesome.
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This is Don t Ask Tig, I m Tig Notaro, and today, this podcast gets turned up to 11.
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You know and love my next guest from his many unforgettable roles, including Lenny Kuznowski in Laverne and Shirley, Chuck McGill on Better Call Saul, and David St.
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Hubbins in This Is Spinal Tap.
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Michael McKeon, I am so grateful that you are here today.
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Thank you so much for the invitation, and I m glad I could show up, even though it meant not leaving my house.
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That s the kind of showing up I do at this age.
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I appreciate it.
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I ll take whatever I can get.
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Before we started the show officially, you had mentioned that you saw me perform at Largo in Los Angeles.
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I have something to share with you.
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SPEAKER_03
You do?
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SPEAKER_03
I do.
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SPEAKER_03
We actually met years ago.
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SPEAKER_03
I worked for you briefly.
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SPEAKER_01
In what capacity?
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SPEAKER_03
There s no way you would know or remember this, but you did an HBO pilot years ago, and I was the PA that was working for you.
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And you can try and act like you re trying to remember.
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SPEAKER_03
There s no way.
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SPEAKER_03
This was 25 years ago.
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SPEAKER_03
I m sure you remember the pilot.
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SPEAKER_01
No, I don t think I do.
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SPEAKER_03
It was you and Harry Shearer, and Harry was in a green suit.
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Oh my God, yes.
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I ll tell you, it was 23 years ago, because it was right before I got married.
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SPEAKER_04
Oh, okay.
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In fact, I was sort of directing it.
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Fortunately, the check bounced so I don t feel guilty.
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Well, I met you 23 years ago and never crossed paths again.
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Till that night at the Largo.
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SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
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Now, Michael, I heard that your father was involved with founding Decca Records.
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Here s what he, now my father was instrumental in the transition from single records to albums in Decca s post-war years.
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When Decca started, my father was in college and was not an executive.
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But these things, they wind up lodged in the lore.
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It is somewhere the truth that David Lander and I, a guy who played Squiggy on Laverne and Shirley, that when we met at college, we did, you know, we goofed around in college, but we did not ride a motorcycle through Donner Hall.
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We didn t do it.
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Well, to bring up Lenny and Squiggy, I know you hear it every day of your life, huge part of my childhood.
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My mother, my brother, we just adored the show and Lenny and Squiggy, oh my God, loved you guys.
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Well, thank you, thanks.
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You know, we lost David about...
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a year and change ago.
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We were together for a long, long time.
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We met when we were teenagers.
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SPEAKER_03
That s crazy.
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And we were friends until our 70s.
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Well, I m sorry for your loss.
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Well, it was everybody s loss because he really was the funniest man I ever knew.
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But you guys just together, it s so incredible.
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I mean, my wife and I are no Lenny and Squiggy, but it s so nice.
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I mean, she and I make each other laugh harder than anybody else on the planet.
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And when you find that person, of course, she and I are in love, but also there s been men in my life.
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And when I go on Stephen Colbert, I feel it too, just that crush and that love.
0
SPEAKER_03
It s like you fall in love with another comedian.
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It s when you find that rhythm where it s like neither of you are really thinking.
0
SPEAKER_01
You re just being funny and making each other laugh.
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Chris Guest and I were in London, it was 2000, so we were promoting Best in Show.
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And we went out to dinner.
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I didn t even know what it was, but we got onto some kind of a roll, and they were gonna throw us out of there.
0
SPEAKER_01
We were laughing so hard, and so, and it was like that thing, it s where you get to a point and you both can t breathe,
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And then you both have the same thought, and you try to say it at the same time, because it would be the funniest thing that ever happened.
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And you realize you re both going to say the same thing, and neither of you can say it anymore.
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And then you re gone.
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Yeah.
0
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I can t even believe that some people don t experience that also.
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My wife calls it people who talk to each other.
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And it s when you just go through the world.
0
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That s damning it with faint praise right there.
0
SPEAKER_03
Just saying hello and how is your day and this is delicious and good night and I love you.
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And that s the extent of the exchange.
0
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And then there s people that make your whole body explode.
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And it s just I feel so thankful to have that in my life.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_03
Now, you studied acting at Carnegie Mellon and NYU.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
0
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The first year at Pittsburgh was
0
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four in the morning, so I wasn t really available for my eight o clock class.
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David and I both got kind of culled from the herd after one year.
0
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And he went right off to NYU, because he wanted to be close to home.
0
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And so, the following year, I kind of went on my own for a while, and I played in a band.
0
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And then I just kind of basically hung out and lived off of other people.
0
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And then I went back to school, back to NYU.
0
SPEAKER_03
And you ve clearly gone on to play some of the funniest roles ever.
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SPEAKER_03
Were they improvised?
0
SPEAKER_01
Depends on the project.
0
SPEAKER_01
Final Tap was 99% improvised.
0
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There were, I think, four written lines.
0
SPEAKER_01
other actors other than us.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, we had the idea that it was just better to know where we were going and then just see if we could make each other laugh on the way there.
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And that s how that was done.
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And then, of course, Chris s films, Chris Guest s films, four of those that I did, those are all improvised.
0
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The dialogue is improvised.
0
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The intent is always clear.
0
SPEAKER_01
The story is always clear.
0
SPEAKER_01
So when you were with somebody like David, though, on Laverne & Shirley... Well, a lot in rehearsal, and also they expected us to rewrite our stuff.
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When David and I had stuff that was sort of standalone and wasn t about, oh, how are we going to help the girls or how are
0
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we re going to help save the pizza bowl or whatever was going on.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that was all nailed down.
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SPEAKER_01
But they wanted us to rewrite our stuff because it s not that easy.
0
SPEAKER_01
You know, it s it s not just like bazooka Joe dumb.
0
SPEAKER_01
There s a kind of a logic to what Lenny and Squiggy did.
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They had their own mentality, which just didn t jibe with your normal mentality.
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But it was for real and it had to have a certain logic.
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So they said, go do, you know, and so we did.
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Sometimes we actually got a script on the first reading and it said, Lenny and Squiggy enter and do something.
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And then they say this to the girls.
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So we just, all right, I guess, you know, it s the horse costume.
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SPEAKER_03
I mean, there must have been so many explosive moments of the anticipation of what you were going to walk in and do and even just the fun between the two of you.
0
SPEAKER_01
Well, they were great.
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I mean, it really was the four of us had a pretty good squad going when we really had something to do.
0
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
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There were times when it was very explosive and there were times when it was when it was the opposite.
0
SPEAKER_01
You know, there were times it just seemed to go over simmering.
0
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We ll get through this.
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want to feel.
0
SPEAKER_04
Right.
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But we did in those days, we didn t do scenes over and over again.
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We shot everything once.
0
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
0
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And there were no monitors.
0
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So you get, you know, find the old camera coordinators and get them to explain how it ever got done.
0
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But it was three guys, three cameras on three dollies shooting the whole show, real audience reaction, very little sweetening on our show.
0
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You know, we it was we had some really good houses.
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Oh my gosh.
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It was a really unusual time, but there was one moment that stands out for me in that whole process of seven years.
0
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We were doing a show that we hated.
0
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We just, on the pink version at the table the week before, it was like, well, let s just throw this in the garbage because this is terrible.
0
SPEAKER_01
So they rewrote it, they fixed it, fixed it, yeah, it s a little better, it s a little better.
0
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So we got it on its feet, and because of the guest cast, including Peter Abeling, who s a very, very funny actor,
0
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and because we really wanted to get it over with, we wound up shooting this amazing show, and it s one of the funnier shows.
0
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And having just crapped on the show all week, we re backstage, we re shooting, the audience is really digging it.
0
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And Cindy and I run off and we have an entrance.
0
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We re right about to go back on and she s panting.
0
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She goes, show s cooking.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I, we didn t do high fives in those days, but it was, there was an emotional high five.
0
SPEAKER_03
I still don t do high fives.
0
SPEAKER_01
No, no, it s best not to, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_03
They re not my thing.
0
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, you get an old guy reminiscing in your intro.
0
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Well, that s the end of our show.
0
SPEAKER_01
Part two.
0
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Now, Michael, is giving advice something you enjoy or you re good at?
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Sometimes I can give useful advice if it successfully helps someone else beat me to it.
0
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You know, because sometimes someone will say, I have a problem, and they ll start telling me.
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And I ll get an idea of just one little corner of it and say, well, what about this?
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And then sometimes I can put it into words.
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SPEAKER_04
OK.
0
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If I always knew the right thing, I d give a lot more advice.
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But I also know that lives are all different.
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They sure are.
0
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You know, what should I do?
0
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Should I ask this girl to marry me or not?
0
I don t know.
0
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I got mine already.
0
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I ve already been through that.
0
SPEAKER_03
All right, well, you re known for playing a rock star.
0
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
0
SPEAKER_03
And this next question is from a listener who can t make the rock stop playing.
0
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Mimi writes, as I lay my head down to sleep at night, Aerosmith s Dream On haunts my brain.
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SPEAKER_03
It s a good one.
0
SPEAKER_03
Night after night, this happens.
0
SPEAKER_03
How can I put an end to this?
0
SPEAKER_01
I have a real answer.
0
SPEAKER_03
Oh, okay, let s have it.
0
SPEAKER_01
Figure out the opposite of Aerosmith s dream on.
0
SPEAKER_01
Find something that s in a minor key, that has an ascending rather than descending scale.
0
SPEAKER_01
Listen to that right before you go to bed.
0
SPEAKER_03
Do you have an example?
0
SPEAKER_03
That would be really helpful.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s Only Make Believe by Conway Twitty.
0
SPEAKER_03
I love Conway Twitty.
0
SPEAKER_01
I do too.
0
SPEAKER_01
His name was the source of two parodies, Conrad Birdie in the show Bye Bye Birdie and Twit Conway, which was a Peter Sellers character.
0
SPEAKER_03
Wow, I didn t know that.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_03
I love music trivia.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_03
I always tell the story of flying on JetBlue from LA to New York, and they used to have the music trivia.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0
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And I would play from the time we took off to landing, and it would tell which seat you were in.
0
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And I remember I was just beating everybody on the flight, and this guy walked past me when he was exiting the plane, and he turned, and he was like, Ms.
0
SPEAKER_03
Rock and Roll.
0
SPEAKER_01
What s the first concert you ever saw?
0
SPEAKER_01
First rock concert?
0
SPEAKER_03
I went to see Sammy Hagar.
0
SPEAKER_01
Sure.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, sure.
0
SPEAKER_03
Sure.
0
SPEAKER_01
No, I met Sammy when he was with Chickenfoot.
0
SPEAKER_03
Oh, okay.
0
SPEAKER_01
London you saw him play, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
0
SPEAKER_01
He s a good loud singer.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
Sam s a good man.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I saw him on his I Can t Drive 55 tour.
0
SPEAKER_01
Well, you must have been a child.
0
SPEAKER_03
I was, but I also loved his band Montrose.
0
SPEAKER_03
I don t know if you re familiar with Montrose.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, kind of not my cup of tea, but I remember them.
0
SPEAKER_01
They were fine.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
I love those obscure bands that I used to make fun of and say, yeah, they re opening for them and they re opening for them.
0
SPEAKER_01
And then I hear something, they were good.
0
SPEAKER_01
There s a band called Rhinoceros who played a lot and they were always third on the bill.
0
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I bought an whole album.
0
SPEAKER_01
They re really good.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I have no idea what their status is now.
0
SPEAKER_01
They re probably, you know, retired or, you know, working
0
SPEAKER_03
Well, there s your plug rhinoceros.
0
SPEAKER_01
No, they were great.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, we re going to get their career back up and going after that.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, plug.
0
SPEAKER_03
Mimi, take it from Michael.
0
SPEAKER_03
He knows music after all.
0
SPEAKER_03
He was Oscar nominated for best original song.
0
SPEAKER_01
The other thing I ve had this problem for some reason I had Don t You Want Me by the Human League.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
In my head one night.
0
SPEAKER_01
That s a good song.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s not a good song.
0
SPEAKER_03
It is a good song.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh, maybe before this night, it was a good song, but now it s not a good song.
0
SPEAKER_01
Okay, because it did keep me and it was like, What the hell?
0
SPEAKER_01
I don t I never was crazy about this song.
0
SPEAKER_01
I don t I don t like everybody wants
0
SPEAKER_01
than when you heard it.
0
SPEAKER_03
My mother loved Everybody Wants to Rule the World.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it s fun.
0
SPEAKER_03
I was always kind of neutral about it, but I think because my mother loved it, I m like, ah, I always crank it up when I hear it now.
0
SPEAKER_01
Ah, that s sweet.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_03
All right, it s time for a break, and we will be back with more questions.
0
SPEAKER_02
a six billion dollar con.
0
SPEAKER_01
It didn t take long for it to spread like wildfire.
0
SPEAKER_01
You got to take a look at this really crazy gold stock.
0
SPEAKER_01
A buddy of mine got in at a dime.
0
SPEAKER_02
Which destroyed lives and devastated communities.
0
SPEAKER_02
Every little town across the nation, people have shares in this.
0
SPEAKER_02
We lost everything.
0
SPEAKER_02
And to date, no one has been brought to justice.
0
SPEAKER_01
Somebody knows more than we know.
0
SPEAKER_02
The $6 billion gold scam from the BBC World Service and CBC.
0
SPEAKER_02
Search for the $6 billion gold scam wherever you get your podcasts.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we re back.
1
SPEAKER_00
Michael, this one comes to us from Deedee.
1
SPEAKER_00
Deedee writes, Tig, what if you have young kids and think some of the kids  friends, I m talking age two to four, are real duds?
1
SPEAKER_00
Is it okay to stop scheduling play dates with their parents who are also somewhat duds?
1
SPEAKER_00
Or am I a bad person?
1
SPEAKER_00
Ha ha.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m always, I never write ha ha.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I always ask my wife, I m like, is this person laughing?
1
SPEAKER_00
Like what is, when somebody writes ha or ha ha, I don t, I never understand, but she ll tell me, she s like, oh, that s ironic or that s.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think of it as kind of the laugh track.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think if someone has asked you, reminding you to laugh,
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
Anyway, I don t know where that got us.
1
SPEAKER_02
I just think if there s any way to teach your kids to be as discerning as you are without bullying them, that s fine, you know.
1
SPEAKER_02
But the other thing, I ve had some friends that my parents thought were duds.
1
SPEAKER_02
And they were really cool.
1
SPEAKER_02
They were fine.
1
SPEAKER_02
My father loved my friends who were funny.
1
SPEAKER_02
When I was, you know, in those years, I had really funny friends of very different kinds.
1
SPEAKER_02
One guy was kind of the intellectual who was fun to watch TV with because he
1
SPEAKER_02
was Buddy Hackett, basically.
1
SPEAKER_02
He was just this goofy fat kid who just made me laugh so hard.
1
SPEAKER_02
And neither of those guys went into show business.
1
SPEAKER_02
And both of those people were totally acceptable to my folks.
1
SPEAKER_02
My folks thought they were fine.
1
SPEAKER_02
But there were some that they thought, what are you hanging around with him for?
1
SPEAKER_02
And I didn t need to hear that.
1
SPEAKER_02
You know, I made my own decisions about that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Have you ever met a two-year-old dud?
1
SPEAKER_02
Not a dud, no, no I haven t, I don t think.
1
SPEAKER_02
I don t meet many two-year-olds, but when I had two-year-olds, I would meet two-year-olds and they were all, I didn t really judge them that much.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, they re only two years into this life.
1
SPEAKER_00
I know.
1
SPEAKER_00
Two years.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, 24 months.
1
SPEAKER_02
You can t quiz them on anything yet.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, yeah DeeDee, why are you being so hard on two to four year olds?
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean two they can be annoying and frustrating if they re crying all the time or they re fighting or throwing tantrums but I guess I can t quite picture what a dud of a two-year-old is but I think that I
1
SPEAKER_00
If your kid has an interest in these kids, even if you find them to be boring or a dud, I think you still need to let your kid hang out with them.
1
SPEAKER_00
And my wife and I were warned all the time about once our kids got into school, we would be miserable with having to go to all the birthday parties and meet all the parents.
1
SPEAKER_00
We ve luckily had the opposite experience because on the weekends we love – when I say we, I m on tour right now, so Stephanie s really dealing with it – but she calls me all the time just thankful that there is a birthday party every weekend because it s so fun for our sons.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it s something to do.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s like a major activity.
1
SPEAKER_00
And all of the parents we like, you know, we re not hanging out with them all the time.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I guess I m just kind of bragging at this point that it s not really helping Deedee.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I m just, it s so fresh on my mind because Stephanie and I talk about how thankful we are that we re not feeling that way about... I think the dud parents looms a lot larger in this question than anything else.
1
SPEAKER_02
Because sometimes you do that, oh my god, this little bastard s just like his dad.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s like we tend to do that because we understand adults a lot better than we understand something as simple as a two-year-old.
1
SPEAKER_02
And they have their own complexities.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and I think that possibly these parents are more duds than we know, but we re also, I m sure as the other parents are, we re so busy that we don t really have time to be getting that tight with everybody.
1
SPEAKER_00
I would say, you know, as far as the two to four year old duds go,
1
SPEAKER_00
I think you need to lay off, Dede.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s a little rough.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, let him grow.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
And they have such limited information and experience.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I have almost 51 years of experience and I am not nailing it every day.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so if the parents are annoying, distance yourself and explain that you don t have that kind of time to spend with people outside of your tight circle.
1
SPEAKER_02
But, um, I don t know why, but I m reminded of someone.
1
SPEAKER_02
Someone gave me a list of things that doctors, expressions that doctors use to each other and don t use anywhere else.
1
SPEAKER_02
You know, they don t talk to non-doctors about it.
1
SPEAKER_00
And like what?
1
SPEAKER_02
Well, like, you know,
1
SPEAKER_02
I can t remember any of the setups, but there were just the, oh, I know, okay.
1
SPEAKER_02
It can get real dark, okay.
1
SPEAKER_02
We re both cancer survivors, you and I. But it was like a goober was a tumor.
1
SPEAKER_02
A roasted goober is one that s been treated with radiation.
1
SPEAKER_02
A healthy goober is a dead patient.
1
SPEAKER_02
So these really dark, dark things.
1
SPEAKER_02
And the other one was FLK.
1
SPEAKER_02
funny looking kid, he s in exam number six, FLK.
1
SPEAKER_02
And who is the FLP?
1
SPEAKER_02
And that s the funny looking parents, they ll be around.
1
SPEAKER_00
So wait, is that, that s a known thing with doctors?
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, this is things that doctors used to do.
1
SPEAKER_02
They have very dark senses of humor.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh my gosh.
1
SPEAKER_02
This doctor joke, this doctor joke, were the two most overrated things in the world, sexual intercourse and Johns Hopkins.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s a lovely thing you could only hear a doctor say.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh my gosh, funny looking kid.
1
SPEAKER_00
And there s nothing better than a funny looking kid.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh God.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, like there is truly no unattractive or unadorable, uncute kid alive.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t care what their face looks like, how it lined up.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t care what s going on.
1
SPEAKER_00
Kids are just the best, even if they re duds.
1
SPEAKER_02
they re on their way to being something else.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s the one thing that all kids have.
1
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It s they re not who they re gonna ever be.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
There are so many different ways to be beautiful anyway.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
You know, it s- And interesting.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
And oh my gosh, the dud element.
1
SPEAKER_00
I just, Dee Dee, you re wrong.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s what I have to say.
1
SPEAKER_00
Get back to us and let us know how things go with these kids when you finally get off their asses about being duds.
1
SPEAKER_00
All right, Michael, our next question was sent in by a frustrated friend.
1
SPEAKER_00
Ash writes, one of my dearest friends and I live in different states.
1
SPEAKER_00
We often communicate via FaceTime.
1
SPEAKER_00
I love her and she s a good friend, but every single time it s my turn to talk and I say anything more than a yes or no in response,
1
SPEAKER_00
she starts yawning.
1
SPEAKER_00
If I m telling a story, she will just yawn one after another until I m done.
1
SPEAKER_00
We ve talked about it, and she says she can t stop.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I can t help it.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s a riveting letter so far.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I can t help but feel self-conscious, knowing every time I talk, she s going to be yawning the whole time.
1
SPEAKER_00
Help.
1
SPEAKER_00
Ash, that was a long, I mean,
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_00
Maybe you need to edit, okay?
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, I would yawn sometimes right before I would do standup, and I think there s something psychological going on.
1
SPEAKER_02
Apparently, you re yawning because your brain needs more oxygen.
1
SPEAKER_02
You re doing kind of an emergency rethink of how much intake you got.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s what s happening on a completely non-conscious level.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, I m sure in the early days of doing stand-up, because that s when it was that I would start yawning.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think it was to calm myself, maybe.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_00
Does that make sense or no?
1
SPEAKER_02
I had it explained to me once why you yawn when you see someone else yawn.
1
SPEAKER_02
And it was very complex and I don t remember it at all.
1
SPEAKER_02
So I m glad to be of service.
1
SPEAKER_00
Why not?
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, we have time to fill.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now, my gut reaction to this is that it s something psychological, and I can t do much better than Michael did, to be honest.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t know what the psychological issue might be, if it is psychological,
1
SPEAKER_00
But I know for myself, I feel like I would yawn backstage because I would get excited and nervous right before I went out.
1
SPEAKER_00
So I think I would yawn to just kind of bring myself back down.
1
SPEAKER_02
Maybe you were trying to convince yourself that you re blasé about the thing.
1
SPEAKER_02
Oh, yes, I m going to go on now.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, my first stand-up performance, I was leaning against the wall on my ex backstage and I was yawning and the producer walked by and she said, are you tired?
1
SPEAKER_00
Are you?
1
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, no, I just, I can t stop yawning.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think it s nerves or something.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I mean, truly couldn t be more exhausted and tired before I walk out on stage.
1
SPEAKER_02
Have you ever yawned on stage?
1
SPEAKER_02
I don t think I ever have.
1
SPEAKER_02
No.
1
SPEAKER_02
I ve had to fake a yawn and it s pretty convincing, but I don t think I ve ever literally yawned.
1
SPEAKER_00
Do you know what I ve noticed in movies and TV, and I point it out to Stephanie all the time?
1
SPEAKER_00
It is rare that you see somebody do an authentic yawn on camera.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think I ve only seen it once.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because when you re closing at the end, after the, I mean, it is so hard to do an authentic yawn.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s a really interesting thing.
1
SPEAKER_02
You re right, of course.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s almost like that very fake money that you see in old movies.
1
Remember that?
1
SPEAKER_02
I was like, those aren t dollar bills.
1
SPEAKER_02
Picture of Louis B. Mayer on them.
1
SPEAKER_02
Come on.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
I truly think I ve only seen it once where I m like, oh my gosh, that looks like a real yawn.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I ve never seen, no matter how good the actor is, I m always like, meh, they re not tired.
1
SPEAKER_00
They re acting.
1
SPEAKER_02
Here s what we got to do.
1
SPEAKER_02
We got to put together a supercut of famous actors yawning, or just any actors yawning.
1
SPEAKER_02
You know, I m not going to do this.
1
SPEAKER_02
You re not going to do this.
1
SPEAKER_02
But maybe somebody will.
1
SPEAKER_00
No, I think it d be a great project for us to do together.
1
SPEAKER_02
You d be right.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think most of them would look like horseshit.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
All right, Ash.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m confident we didn t help you.
1
SPEAKER_00
But good luck.
1
SPEAKER_00
Michael, this next and final question comes from a listener in New Zealand.
1
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Amy writes, Tig, I just finished watching Bad Reputation, the Joan Jett documentary that you talked about in the Cyndi Lauper episode, and oh my God, I loved it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Any recommendations on movies or documentaries to watch?
1
SPEAKER_00
I have already watched everything with you in it multiple times.
1
SPEAKER_00
Amy, I can t help but think you should re-watch everything of mine all over again.
1
SPEAKER_00
Why not, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t know, Michael, do you have any recommendations for Amy?
1
SPEAKER_02
I really liked the Wilco movie.
1
SPEAKER_02
It was real good.
1
SPEAKER_02
I m Trying to Break Your Heart is the Wilco movie.
1
SPEAKER_02
And there s a movie called Anvil, the story of Anvil, which is a story of a Canadian band getting back together again.
1
SPEAKER_02
And it s really fun, except for one problem.
1
SPEAKER_02
20, 30, 40 years on, everyone knows what it s like to be in a kind of a reality situation.
1
SPEAKER_02
So a lot of times people are behaving a little differently.
1
SPEAKER_02
than they might if this were turn on a camera, you know, right?
1
SPEAKER_02
It s a little bit story driven and people are kind of like we got to get the band back together playing moments instead of like just.
1
SPEAKER_02
I try them again, call them again, call them at this number.
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, there s a famous piece of film and it s by the Lumiere brothers in the early part of the 20th century, say 1901, 1902.
1
SPEAKER_02
Nobody s ever seen a movie camera before.
1
SPEAKER_02
They parked one outside the Peugeot factory, which was a bicycle factory at the time.
1
SPEAKER_02
And it s all these hundreds of workers walking past this camera.
1
SPEAKER_02
And it s the last time you ll ever see a lot of people who have never seen a movie.
1
SPEAKER_02
Nobody knows what that camera does yet at this point.
1
SPEAKER_02
But now we all we do.
1
SPEAKER_02
And now in the last 20 years, everything s reality television.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s why people are proposing to each other loudly in restaurants and taking movies of it.
1
SPEAKER_02
at all times, everybody s treating their life on airplanes, if it s about masks, if it s about what, it s like, we re all on TV now.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I think it s made us all terribly evil.
1
SPEAKER_00
My other podcast, Cheryl Hines and I do a podcast about new documentary every week.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we kind of barely talk about documentaries, but there is just such a new way of making documentaries that it s so refined and like produced.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I mean, obviously, it s not like the first time seeing a movie, but there was just a real turn that documentaries took.
1
SPEAKER_00
you know, and some are good, but you lose that rawness.
1
SPEAKER_02
Well, I think that Errol Morris did an interesting thing when he started making documentaries.
1
SPEAKER_02
And he did The Thin Blue Line.
1
SPEAKER_02
And it was by far the most well thought of documentary of the year.
1
SPEAKER_02
Didn t get nominated for an Oscar because they said, no, it s all setups and stuff.
1
SPEAKER_02
And it s cutting away to the
1
SPEAKER_02
coffee cup hitting the floor and, you know, and just like he made a made a movie out of it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, right.
1
SPEAKER_02
That it wasn t a documentary.
1
SPEAKER_02
But he was really evolving as an artist, I think, you know, and he s made some wonderful films.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
But it s not the same as Frederick Wiseman, who really did just talk his way into great situations and just shoot it.
1
SPEAKER_02
So if you hear the air conditioning, you hear the air conditioning, you know, it s like it s like this is what s really happening here.
1
SPEAKER_02
So it is a different time.
1
SPEAKER_00
For sure.
1
SPEAKER_00
And everything is changing and, you know, it s like people griping about new music versus old music.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s like there s room for it all.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I like it all.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, because it s all good for you.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
And you feel it.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s like eating something that you can tell is nourishing you.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s not just a Snickers bar, you know.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and I can t claim that my podcast is nurturing with Cheryl, but it does exist.
1
SPEAKER_02
She s a good improviser.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, she s great.
1
SPEAKER_02
Cheryl s great on her feet.
1
SPEAKER_00
Cheryl and I, she s another one of those people where we just have
1
SPEAKER_00
comedy crushes on each other.
1
SPEAKER_00
We just laugh.
1
SPEAKER_00
We ve been friends for over 15 years and we started this a couple of years ago.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s called Tig and Cheryl True Story.
1
SPEAKER_00
I ll be there.
1
SPEAKER_00
People will write in so furious, like, this is a terrible movie review show.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it s like, that s not what it is.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s like the movie is a jumping off point for us.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we also get sidetracked and just cackle about nothing.
1
SPEAKER_02
Well, you re making your own rules.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s your responsibility, as far as I m concerned.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, Amy, that s what Michael thinks you should watch.
1
SPEAKER_00
And Michael, this last part of the show, it s a segment we call Name That Thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
Name that thing!
1
SPEAKER_00
where people write in when they need us to name that thing for them.
1
SPEAKER_00
Anything from a pub trivia team to a grandmother.
1
SPEAKER_00
The catch is that they must use the name.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is binding, so we can t mess it up.
1
SPEAKER_00
Do you understand the stakes here?
1
SPEAKER_00
Let s let s well, let me explain it again until you understand Okay Rebecca I m being crowd work Rebecca writes, can you please name my pickle tattoo or
1
SPEAKER_00
Why do I have a pickle tattoo?
1
SPEAKER_00
Because I love pickles.
1
SPEAKER_00
Simple as that.
1
SPEAKER_00
I ve always loved them since I was little.
1
SPEAKER_00
People think there s some hidden meaning to my pickle tattoo, but it s just something I love.
1
SPEAKER_00
So when I turned 50, I got a tattoo of a pickle on my ankle.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now when I sit on the can, I will never be bored.
1
SPEAKER_00
I just look down and there s my awesome tattoo.
1
SPEAKER_00
Thank you, Tig and guest.
1
SPEAKER_00
I love pickles.
1
SPEAKER_00
And just for a little information, pickles are great prebiotics, okay?
1
SPEAKER_00
You know of probiotics.
1
SPEAKER_00
I do.
1
SPEAKER_00
But prebiotics, fermented food, is really good.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
I hadn t thought about that before.
1
SPEAKER_00
And pickles are really great prebiotics.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I used to love them.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was famous in my family
1
SPEAKER_00
for my pickle sandwich, because my stepfather, I was a very picky eater.
1
SPEAKER_00
My stepfather, when I was given a sandwich, when I said, I don t want this, he said, well, take off what you don t want.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I took everything off the sandwich except a pickle.
1
SPEAKER_02
And so my family- Did you slice them lengthwise like they do in Chicago?
1
SPEAKER_00
No, just the little circles.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I think I just had two little circles in between bread.
1
SPEAKER_00
Dill?
1
SPEAKER_02
a pickle.
1
SPEAKER_00
No.
1
SPEAKER_00
What about would she get a pickle tattoo?
1
SPEAKER_02
She wouldn t get any kind of tattoo.
1
SPEAKER_02
No.
1
SPEAKER_02
I have one tattoo which I dreamed when I was in my 20s.
1
SPEAKER_02
I dreamed that I got a little star over here the size of a dime.
1
SPEAKER_02
And then in 1994, I was shooting a movie called Radioland Murders, which refused to rap.
1
SPEAKER_02
It just kept shooting and shooting and shooting.
1
SPEAKER_02
So Bob Goldthwait decided we re gonna have a rap party anyway.
1
SPEAKER_02
So he got a club downtown Wilmington, North Carolina, where we were shooting, and he got some cage dancers, and he got some tattoo artists, and some piercing people.
1
SPEAKER_02
Hey.
2
SPEAKER_01
Sky s the limit, whatever you want.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I got this tattoo that I had dreamed of.
2
SPEAKER_01
I got a little star the size of a dime.
2
SPEAKER_03
Sky s the limit.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s my entire tattoo thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
My wife, she just says, it s the only thing about you I don t like.
2
SPEAKER_01
She doesn t like my tattoo and she doesn t like pickles.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I think we ve brought it around full circle.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_03
Does anything stick out as far as naming this?
2
SPEAKER_01
Pankle.
2
SPEAKER_03
Ankle?
2
SPEAKER_01
Pankle.
2
SPEAKER_03
Pankle.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s a pickle on your ankle, hence pankle.
2
SPEAKER_03
Pankle.
2
SPEAKER_01
Now, pankle looks like a silly word, much as pickle does, but pankle
2
SPEAKER_01
Or out of some other language.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Pankle, like an umlaut or something.
2
SPEAKER_01
Or they have these great marks in Gaelic.
2
SPEAKER_01
When you see Gaelic in English print, there are all these little doodads on them and cicadas or whatever they re called.
2
SPEAKER_01
And not cicadas.
2
SPEAKER_03
I like cicadas.
2
SPEAKER_01
No.
2
SPEAKER_01
Aren t those bugs?
2
SPEAKER_01
Cedillas.
2
SPEAKER_01
Cedillas is the little meat hook under the seat.
2
SPEAKER_03
Cedilla pankle.
2
SPEAKER_03
Like a dill pickle.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s her full name.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m assuming it s a lady.
2
SPEAKER_03
Sadilla Pankle.
2
SPEAKER_01
Sadilla Pankle.
2
SPEAKER_03
That is the name of your pickle tattoo.
2
SPEAKER_03
Sadilla Pankle.
2
SPEAKER_01
Sadilla Pankle.
2
SPEAKER_03
Oh my gosh, we did it, Michael.
2
SPEAKER_01
We got it.
2
SPEAKER_03
Rebecca, your tattoo is Sadilla Pankle.
2
SPEAKER_03
You are more than welcome.
2
SPEAKER_03
Michael, that s all the time we have.
2
SPEAKER_03
Thank you, Dawn.
2
SPEAKER_03
I am just very appreciative of your time and your generous advice to my listeners.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think we have a lot more to talk about one day, Tig.
2
SPEAKER_01
I would love it.
2
SPEAKER_01
We re going to settle this whole world situation, me and you.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_03
Do you have anything that you d like to promote?
2
SPEAKER_01
There s a lovely movie called Jerry and Marge Go Large, starring Bryan Cranston and Annette Bening, is all.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I m in that.
2
SPEAKER_01
Me and little Anne Harada are married in that one.
2
SPEAKER_03
Amazing.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s a fabulous story.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s about the guy who s retiring from his job at the cereal factory.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he s got a lot of time on his hands and he decides to game the lottery program at the state.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he does, based on a true story.
2
SPEAKER_01
And just by bulk buying and doing a lot of smart planning, he just winds up with this corporation of his friends and they re all making a lot of money.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s an amazing story.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s really fun.
2
SPEAKER_01
So that ll be on Paramount Plus pretty soon.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I also did an episode of the show called Dead Ringers with Miss Rachel Weisz.
2
SPEAKER_01
Keep your eyes open for that because it s going to be a monster and it s really, really dark.
2
SPEAKER_03
Awesome.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I did one episode of that.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m going to London for something that I can t talk about.
2
SPEAKER_03
All right, top secret.
2
SPEAKER_03
Well, everything you do is good, sir.
2
SPEAKER_01
Thank you, Dawn.
2
SPEAKER_03
And it was so nice to cross paths again.
2
SPEAKER_01
One day face to face, okay?
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I would love it.
2
SPEAKER_03
Thank you, bye bye.
2
SPEAKER_01
Have a great day.
2
SPEAKER_03
And now that the show s over, head over to TigNotaro.com to buy tickets to see me on my Hello Again tour.
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New cities are being added all the time, so see you there.
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There s so much I want you to see.
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I wish that I could give you the answers.
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I wish that I could make you believe.
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I wish that I could put you on your path and set you free.
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That s what your heart says.
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Don t Ask Tig is hosted by me, Tig Notaro.
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It s produced by Thomas Ouellette, Shana Deloria, and Ryan Lohr.
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Our executive producer and editor is Beth Perlman.
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Engineering and sound mixing by Eric Romani, Alex Simpson, and Derek Ramirez.
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Digital production by James Napoli.
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Talent booking by Marianne Ways.
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Production support from Pizza Shark.
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Our theme music is Friend and Tig by Edie Burkell and Kyle Crusham, and Listen to Your Heart by Edie Burkell.
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Special thanks to Hunter Seidman.
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APM Studios executives in charge are Chandra Kavati, Alex Schaffert, and Joanne Griffith.
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Concept developed by Tracy Mumford.
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Our executive consultant is Dean Capello and Gobsmack Studios.
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You can always ask for advice at DontAskTig.org.
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Just write in with your problem or send us a voice memo.
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Remember to follow us on social media at DontAskTig.
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DontAskTig is a production of American Public Media.
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And as always, thanks Dana, and I ll tell Becky.
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I m Christina Cotarucci, and this season on Slow Burn.
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It s called Proposition 6.
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The Briggs Initiative.
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John Briggs is going to fire every gay and lesbian school teacher in California.
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With so much at stake, young people became activists.
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We can t let this happen in California.
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And activists became leaders.
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My name is Harvey Milker, and I m here to include you.
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Slow Burn, Season 9.
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Gays Against Briggs.
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Out now, wherever you listen.