0
SPEAKER_06
My name is Lee Hawkins.
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I ve been a journalist for over 25 years.
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SPEAKER_06
On my new podcast, What Happened in Alabama, I get answers to some of the hardest questions about how things came to be for many black Americans and the truth that must come before any reconciliation can happen.
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SPEAKER_06
I investigate my family history, my upbringing in Minnesota, and my father s painful nightmares about growing up in Alabama.
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SPEAKER_06
What Happened in Alabama is a new series confronting the cycles of trauma for myself, my family, and for many Black Americans.
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Listen now.
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SPEAKER_03
Hey everyone, it s Rima Hrace, host of This is Uncomfortable.
0
SPEAKER_03
If you re looking for some good recommendations on books to read, well, you should join This is Uncomfortable s Summer Book Club.
0
SPEAKER_03
Every other week in our newsletter, we ll share a new book that ll make you rethink your relationship to money, class, and work, while also featuring an interview with the author or an expert on the topic.
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SPEAKER_03
Plus, when you join, you ll be entered in a giveaway where you could win some This is Uncomfortable merch.
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SPEAKER_03
Be sure to check it out.
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SPEAKER_03
Sign up today at marketplace.org slash book club.
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SPEAKER_05
Hey, Don t Ask Tig, friends.
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SPEAKER_05
Tig was a guest on another podcast recently, and we wanted to share.
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The show is called Pop Culture Moms, all about what we can learn from the TV and movie moms we love most.
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It s hosted by me, Sabrina Kohlberg, and my best friend of 20 years, Andy Mitchell.
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We re self-proclaimed pop culture aficionados, and now we re putting our knowledge to use.
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We re exploring the comedy and tragedy of what parenthood is like in real life.
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In the episode, Tig talks to us about processing the death of her mom through her show, One Mississippi, what it s like to raise twins, and the humor she finds in parenting.
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Okay, here comes the clip.
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If you like it, click the link in the episode description or search Pop Culture Moms while you re listening and follow.
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SPEAKER_05
Hi, honey.
0
SPEAKER_05
Hi, how are you?
0
SPEAKER_05
I m good.
0
SPEAKER_04
I m doing all right.
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SPEAKER_04
What about you?
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SPEAKER_05
I m really struggling.
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SPEAKER_05
I ve lived a whole day today and it s just, it s been a tough day.
0
SPEAKER_05
So I m so glad to have you.
0
SPEAKER_05
Oh my God.
0
SPEAKER_05
I m here to be your emotional support.
0
SPEAKER_05
If that s possible.
0
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_05
You know, we have a big week because it s the finale of our first season and it s Mother s Day.
0
SPEAKER_05
Can you believe it?
0
SPEAKER_05
Lots of exciting things happening, but also, like, Mother s Day to me is so overwhelming.
0
SPEAKER_05
I know.
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SPEAKER_04
I know.
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SPEAKER_04
You know, this is the tension of Mother s Day, and this is why I have, in the past, you know, I have proposed that Mother s Day, as it s celebrated family-wise, like everyone spending it with their mom or their grandmother or just all the history of women that they have in their lives,
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Keep it on Sunday.
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Make your Mother s Day on Monday.
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Ideally the kids are in school or they re somewhere that they re supposed to be.
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Your husband s somewhere else he s supposed to be.
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And it s just you.
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Like I really I want to say moving forward just plan a day that s during the week and then Mother s Day is going to be what it is.
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SPEAKER_04
It s a it s a tough day.
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SPEAKER_04
There s a tension of like
0
SPEAKER_04
Oh, we re celebrating you, but it does feel like a lot of outside pressure to do what other people think you should want to do.
0
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, that is really tricky.
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SPEAKER_05
And you re really always up against what your mom wants to do.
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That s the thing.
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And it s like my mom owns the real estate of all my specialties.
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I get that.
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My birthday is very important to her.
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Every holiday is very important to her.
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As was your wedding.
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SPEAKER_04
As was my wedding.
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As was your wedding.
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My wedding was my mother s day.
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SPEAKER_04
That s true.
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SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
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And my mother s day for you also.
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But that s ordinarily fine.
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It s just
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that on Mother s Day it always starts with like she wants to like she creates a concept of like the perfect day that I would love something for me which is like at this stage not necessarily something I would love like I would love simpler or you know anything that s like restful
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SPEAKER_04
But I should just go along with her plan and just take to Monday and then that s when you do your rest day.
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That s when you do a massage.
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I don t know what it is.
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SPEAKER_05
That would be the key to like avoiding a big fight with a mom.
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SPEAKER_05
You do their Mother s Day on Sunday and then just move yours.
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Just move the date.
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SPEAKER_04
Maybe pick a new month.
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SPEAKER_04
So this is just the tension of what it is to be a mother and a daughter, a daughter and a mother.
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Today, we are talking to someone who can speak to this, someone who created a show inspired by their own life, got to pick the actress who plays their mother on the show, which to me is like, it s the coolest thing and also potentially the biggest landmine of an argument, speaking of arguments with our mothers.
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Oh my goodness, yes.
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But we did ask our moms this very question.
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Who would you want to play you in a movie and show?
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And what did your mom say?
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My mom said, quote, I guess Kate Winslet or anyone from the Hallmark Channel.
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It s just such a wild swing to go from Kate Winslet to the Hallmark Channel.
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I said, we won t tell Kate Winslet you said that.
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Yeah.
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Also, my mom doesn t look like Kate Winslet.
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She was just picking a woman with gravitas.
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You know what I mean?
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I think she was just picking our favorite human being to ever live.
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Yeah.
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And my mother similarly had such a strange first response.
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And she said, well, not Julia Roberts.
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Yeah, you should be so lucky.
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Please, pretty woman?
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I know.
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Forever?
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I think she was thinking more that she doesn t look like Julia Roberts, but she landed on the one and only Farrah Fawcett.
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A bombshell.
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Yeah.
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I can see it.
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I ll tell you right now, I can see it.
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I mean, I can too, and she told me right away she volunteered some information.
0
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I think she was like,
0
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I don t want you to think I just automatically think I look like Farrah Fawcett. 
0
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So she was like, one time, when a man was pumping gas for me at a gas station, because you know in New Jersey we get our gas pumped for us here, which is one of the greatest perks of the state.
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He came up to her and he said, you look just like Farrah Fawcett.
0
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And she s never forgotten it.
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I bet it s been 30 years.
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Still the best compliment of her life.
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Honestly, that s, if I got that, now I have brown hair, I don t look a thing like Farrah Potts, I would be stunned and thrilled.
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SPEAKER_04
Like, just... I d take it with me wherever I went.
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SPEAKER_04
Well, this is interesting, though, because these actresses aren t the people that we would have picked for our mothers.
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SPEAKER_04
Like, that s the interesting thing is, like, when you think about, okay, but who would you cast as your mother on a show?
0
SPEAKER_05
You know, I think I would pick Goldie Hawn.
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SPEAKER_04
Yeah, 100%.
0
SPEAKER_04
I co-sign that.
0
SPEAKER_04
She s Goldie Hawn and overboard.
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Definitely overboard.
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SPEAKER_04
She is overboard.
0
SPEAKER_01
My life is like death.
0
SPEAKER_01
My children are the spawn of hell and you re the devil.
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Oh, God.
0
SPEAKER_05
You know, she loves Goldie Hawn, so she would be really honored by that.
0
SPEAKER_05
And who would you pick to play her?
0
SPEAKER_05
Like, if you had to cast your mom, who are you picking?
0
SPEAKER_04
Well, when I was telling my mom, I was like, okay, well, let me suggest someone.
0
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And she goes, who, Sinead O Connor?
0
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And I was like... Sinead O Connor s not an actress.
0
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She has passed, sadly, okay?
0
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Rest in peace.
0
SPEAKER_04
But I thought about it and I said, I think that I would pick
0
SPEAKER_04
either Marissa Tomei or Catherine O Hara.
0
SPEAKER_05
I would give good money to see Catherine O Hara study your mom for a week and then give it her best shot.
0
SPEAKER_04
I would love it.
0
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I think it would be great.
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I would love it.
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So as I mentioned, today s guest got to play this game and make it a reality and she says she nailed it.
0
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Tig Notaro is an award-winning comedian, writer, actor, and podcaster really well known for her dry deadpan style.
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It is so subtle, so impeccably timed, it kills me.
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She s so singular and that s another part of what makes her comedy special.
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She has this raw authenticity and willingness to share these really enormous things that she s experienced like
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In 2012, she had an incredibly difficult and life-changing span of four months.
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First, she became ill with pneumonia and then C. diff, and C. diff, for anyone who doesn t know, is a bacteria that causes an infection of the colon.
0
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She went through a breakup, was diagnosed with breast cancer, and her mother died very suddenly.
0
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And instead of just crawling into her bed and crying, which is what I would have done, she turned all of this into her own Amazon original TV series called One Mississippi.
0
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She co-created, starred in it, produced it.
0
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The plot revolves around Tig Bavaro, a Los Angeles radio host who returns to her hometown in Mississippi after the sudden death of her mother.
0
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while back home, Tig deals with her own health issues, including recovering from a double mastectomy due to breast cancer, and begins to confront her complicated family dynamics and past traumas.
0
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It s a funny, heartbreaking, and candid look at family illness, grief, and healing.
0
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I m Sabrina Kohlberg.
0
SPEAKER_04
And I m Andi Mitchell.
0
SPEAKER_04
From ABC Audio and Good Morning America, this is Pop Culture Moms.
0
SPEAKER_04
We talked to Tig about what it was like to create such a beautiful thing from such a difficult time in her life, casting the perfect actor to play her mother, how grieving the loss of her mom has changed her, and what it s like to raise twins.
0
SPEAKER_04
We ll talk with Tig after this quick break.
0
SPEAKER_03
Hey everyone, it s Rima Hrace, host of This is Uncomfortable.
0
SPEAKER_03
If you re looking for some good recommendations on books to read, well, you should join This is Uncomfortable s Summer Book Club.
0
SPEAKER_03
Every other week in our newsletter, we ll share a new book that ll make you rethink your relationship to money, class, and work, while also featuring an interview with the author or an expert on the topic.
0
SPEAKER_03
Plus, when you join, you ll be entered in a giveaway where you could win some This is Uncomfortable merch.
0
SPEAKER_03
Be sure to check it out.
0
SPEAKER_03
Sign up today at marketplace.org slash book club.
0
SPEAKER_00
I m Ben Nadafafri, host of the history show The Last Archive, and I want to tell you about a new series we re running in our feed.
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It s called The Deadline.
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SPEAKER_00
Six essays written and read by Jill Lepore, the New Yorker writer, American historian and founding host of our show.
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SPEAKER_00
These are incredible essays on everything from the history of cryogenics to the Silicon Valley gospel of disruption.
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SPEAKER_00
And at the end of each essay, I interview Jill about her craft as a writer.
0
SPEAKER_00
You can listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
0
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Tig, thank you so much for being here.
0
SPEAKER_04
Thanks for having me.
0
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We are so excited to talk to you today.
0
SPEAKER_02
Well, thank you.
0
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I guess we ll start with the incredibly difficult four-month span of time that you experienced in 2012, where you had pneumonia and C. diff.
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You went through a breakup.
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You were diagnosed with cancer.
0
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Your mother died suddenly.
0
SPEAKER_04
How did you get through that time?
0
SPEAKER_02
Oh, my gosh.
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I I feel like I m learning that I m still getting through that time.
0
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But in that moment, just incredible friends and family, the support of strangers, fans.
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And then, you know, there were also just those moments of just telling myself to kind of keep moving forward.
0
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in very small steps of getting up.
0
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I mean, it really felt like a huge accomplishment on some days to even just brush my teeth.
0
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But, you know, and my comedy was helpful.
0
SPEAKER_02
There were a lot of factors at work.
0
SPEAKER_04
While you were living it, were you like, this isn t very funny?
0
SPEAKER_02
This isn t... Yeah, I was definitely not in a place of thinking even, how is this funny?
0
SPEAKER_02
I was in and out of the hospital and devastated by losing my mother and...
0
SPEAKER_02
There were different stages of finding things funny but i was definitely not in each moment thinking oh you know.
0
SPEAKER_02
How is this funny?
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_05
But you eventually did because your show One Mississippi kind of focuses on that time in your life and especially the grieving process after your mom s death.
0
SPEAKER_05
Why did you want to write the show?
0
SPEAKER_02
Well, when I was approached to do a show, I was, you know, neck deep.
0
SPEAKER_02
in the healing of it all.
0
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My health was good.
0
SPEAKER_02
I had met Stephanie, my wife Stephanie, and my life was definitely showing promise.
0
SPEAKER_02
And so I was in a different place, but it was still so freshly
0
SPEAKER_02
on my mind all of those events.
0
SPEAKER_02
And so when I was approached to do a TV show, I thought, well, maybe I could work through all of this stuff with a TV series, but not make it totally autobiographical and use elements of my life as a jumping off point and then hiring a writer s room to contribute their experiences and stories to mine.
0
SPEAKER_02
And that way it would give me some distance and more of an ability to freely talk about things and my experience in, I don t know, different ways or more humorous ways, or, you know, it would just give me an in or an out through other people s experiences based on mine.
0
SPEAKER_04
I m wondering what was your mom like and how similar was she to the character in Lone Mississippi?
0
SPEAKER_02
It s funny because when we were casting that show, all of the people that were submitting for that role, because it was Mississippi, and because it was considered a comedy, people were kind of auditioning.
0
SPEAKER_02
In like a more heightened comedic and Southern like, hey, I m your mama, you know, and I was like, oh, that s not my mother.
0
SPEAKER_02
My mother was a New Orleans debutante who rebelled against her upbringing and.
0
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when all these different people were sent my way for casting, I was like, gosh, this person s awesome, but they re not right.
0
SPEAKER_02
And this person s awesome, but they re not right.
0
SPEAKER_02
And then I finally said, you know what, can I come down to the casting office and just look through every video submission that you think isn t my mother?
0
SPEAKER_02
And I m curious because it wasn t discarded.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_02
Let me just see that.
0
SPEAKER_02
And
0
SPEAKER_02
I went through thumbnails before clicking, and I saw the woman, Rhea, who plays my mother in the show.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I was like, oh, she kind of looks like my mother.
0
SPEAKER_02
And so I clicked it.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I was so floored.
0
SPEAKER_02
I couldn t believe how much she reminded me of my mother.
0
SPEAKER_02
And even on set,
0
SPEAKER_02
I kept saying to her, like, I felt like my mother was there.
0
SPEAKER_02
In fact, there s a scene in One Mississippi where I m in the hospital and the blood is bleeding through the bandage across my chest and my mother is at my bedside in the show.
0
SPEAKER_01
Where am I?
0
SPEAKER_01
You re in the hospital.
0
SPEAKER_01
You just did surgery.
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh, that s why it hurts so bad.
0
SPEAKER_02
Hi, Mom.
0
SPEAKER_02
How d everything go?
0
SPEAKER_02
Did they get all the cancer?
0
SPEAKER_02
Sweetie, I went just fine.
0
SPEAKER_02
But in real life, my mother didn t ever know I had cancer.
0
SPEAKER_02
She died before any of that.
0
SPEAKER_02
And in that scene, I was so emotional privately.
0
SPEAKER_02
I didn t show it, but I felt like my mother was actually at my side when I had cancer because she just embodied
0
SPEAKER_02
my mother, and I wasn t sure if I was hallucinating that, but my stepfather and my brother and everybody that saw that show could not believe how much that was my mother.
0
SPEAKER_04
That s amazing.
0
SPEAKER_02
It was really, really wild.
0
SPEAKER_05
That s incredible.
0
SPEAKER_05
you know, like still to this day when I m sick, all I want is my mom.
0
SPEAKER_05
So it was probably a little healing to just get to experience that for like one minute with someone.
0
SPEAKER_02
For sure.
0
SPEAKER_02
And similarly, that s what I wanted as an adult was my mother.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I remember
0
SPEAKER_02
When I was first getting sick and I didn t know what was wrong with me, I just thought I had a cold at the time.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I had pneumonia, C. diff, and invasive cancer and didn t know it.
0
SPEAKER_02
And that was the last time I talked to my mother and she had told me, oh, sweetie, why don t you just lie down and rest and have some orange juice?
0
SPEAKER_02
And it was like, well, we didn t realize I was battling three deadly illnesses
1
SPEAKER_04
illnesses.
1
SPEAKER_04
But yeah, it was very healing.
1
SPEAKER_04
It was very, very healing to have that moment.
1
SPEAKER_04
And yeah, it s hard to explain how incredible that was.
1
SPEAKER_04
And such a personal story to have somebody really feel like my mother and my stepfather.
1
SPEAKER_04
I mean, John Rothman, who plays my stepfather, he s like beyond.
1
SPEAKER_04
It was the same thing in casting where people would come in, I d be like, God, they re so good.
1
SPEAKER_04
And they re so funny.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I m a fan of theirs.
1
SPEAKER_04
And then John Rothman walks in, never seen or heard of the guy.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I was like, that s my stepfather.
1
SPEAKER_04
That s him.
1
SPEAKER_04
Same with Noah, who plays my brother.
1
SPEAKER_04
Did your brother like the portrayal?
1
SPEAKER_04
Did he love your feedback?
1
SPEAKER_03
And my stepfather loved it.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, he loved it.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I love that.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, because my family would let me know if they didn t think I had gotten someone up to snuff.
1
SPEAKER_03
They would have been.
1
SPEAKER_04
Well, and I think my brother and my stepfather would have been more forgiving with their roles if they weren t quite right.
1
SPEAKER_04
But
1
SPEAKER_04
I feel like they would have been a little harder about my mother like that.
1
SPEAKER_04
That s not her.
1
SPEAKER_04
You know what I mean?
1
SPEAKER_04
And the fact that they all loved those three main roles.
1
SPEAKER_04
I mean, I that s one of my proudest accomplishments in my career that I nailed all three of those people with casting.
1
SPEAKER_03
Can you tell us more about, your mom was like, let s say, very non-traditional.
1
SPEAKER_03
She gave you a lot of freedom, right?
1
SPEAKER_04
She did.
1
SPEAKER_04
My stepfather brought in the structure and all of that stuff.
1
SPEAKER_04
And my mother was an artist.
1
SPEAKER_04
She was a painter.
1
SPEAKER_04
She was one of the funniest people.
1
SPEAKER_04
She was an athlete, a dancer, a runner, liked to party and push back against the systems.
1
SPEAKER_04
Like, she used the back of our house as her canvas.
1
SPEAKER_04
She painted all over the house.
1
SPEAKER_04
When we would, you know, kick our balls or toys on the roof or in the trees, she was climbing the trees with us and on the roof with us.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I think she just connected with the ways that I was going about
1
SPEAKER_04
life and school or not going about school.
1
SPEAKER_04
And she was for sure raised in that more conservative, restricted kind of household, but that was what she was
1
SPEAKER_04
kicking the doors down on was like, yeah, she was raised with money and manners and taught this is what a good girl or young lady does.
1
SPEAKER_04
And she knew how to do those things, but she also gave everything the finger ultimately.
1
SPEAKER_04
But I mean, there was also the other side of it is there wasn t that consistency.
1
SPEAKER_04
When my stepfather was traveling, and it was my mother, there was the fun side.
1
SPEAKER_04
And then there was the like, oh, boy, what s gonna happen?
1
SPEAKER_04
And who are these people?
1
SPEAKER_04
And what s going on?
1
SPEAKER_02
What s happening here?
1
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_04
So it was it was a real mix and a real roller coaster of a relationship that I had with her.
1
SPEAKER_04
But the part of her that is so like, go to hell to everyone is really what is so just ingrained in me.
1
SPEAKER_02
And what sort of things from her did you take?
1
SPEAKER_02
Or are you still taking into your experience of being a mom?
1
SPEAKER_04
Oh man, it s funny because, I mean, there s the side of me that really wants my sons to be exactly who they are, which is what my mother wanted so desperately for me and my brother.
1
SPEAKER_04
She just wanted us to be who we were.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I feel like that s what Stephanie and I are trying so, not even trying, I feel like it s naturally coming through us.
1
SPEAKER_04
But we also marvel near daily how different of a life we are giving our children compared to what we had.
1
SPEAKER_04
And what s crazy is how busy
1
SPEAKER_04
our lives are and, you know, people from the outside could look in and be like, oh, the world of Hollywood and touring and comedy and acting and their lives must be crazy.
1
SPEAKER_04
No, they re not.
1
SPEAKER_04
Our kids are on the most structured day-to-day.
1
SPEAKER_04
They know what s coming.
1
SPEAKER_04
They know what to expect.
1
SPEAKER_04
They have never
1
SPEAKER_04
driven in a car with some random person or parent or, you know, like, well, yeah, yeah, there, there ll be eight in June, but I would say not even their grandparents have driven them anywhere.
1
SPEAKER_04
And also Stephanie s father is our child care.
1
SPEAKER_04
And so we never have a random person in our house.
1
SPEAKER_04
It s just very structured.
1
SPEAKER_04
They re very happy.
1
SPEAKER_04
They re functioning and, uh, outgoing and engaged.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I hope we re giving them a really great mix of that solid structure, but also really encouraging them to be who and what they want to be.
1
SPEAKER_04
And, um, my stepfather, he was an attorney.
1
SPEAKER_04
He was in the military.
1
SPEAKER_04
He was just very, this is how it s done.
1
SPEAKER_04
And he had told me that my career was a waste of my time and my intelligence.
1
SPEAKER_04
And one of my favorite things, after my mother passed away and my stepfather and I were driving off from Mississippi,
1
SPEAKER_04
He was very emotional and apologizing for not always understanding or accepting me and putting pressures on me to be somebody or do something I wasn t into.
1
SPEAKER_04
And he was apologizing for that and crying.
1
SPEAKER_04
And then he said, I m realizing that I was projecting my thoughts
1
SPEAKER_04
and expectations onto you and I didn t take the time to get to know you or support your interests.
1
SPEAKER_04
And he said, I now realize that it is not the child s responsibility to teach their parent who they are.
1
SPEAKER_04
It s the parent s responsibility to learn who their child is.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I m sorry I didn t do that.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I was so stunned because that s all my mother ever wanted from him was to accept me for who I was.
1
SPEAKER_04
And here we were, we had just buried her and we re driving away from the cemetery.
1
SPEAKER_04
And that s what he says.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I m just like, I can t believe, but I also feel like my mother was the kind of person that if I could tell her right now, like, oh my gosh,
1
SPEAKER_04
He came around.
1
SPEAKER_04
He cried.
1
SPEAKER_04
I saw him cry.
1
SPEAKER_04
He was my father since I was two.
1
SPEAKER_04
I d never seen him cry.
1
SPEAKER_04
And she just would have been like, sweetie, it doesn t matter when it came as long as it came.
1
SPEAKER_04
Even though she missed it, she would have been like, it s as long as it happened.
1
SPEAKER_02
We ll be back with more pop culture moms after this quick break.
1
you
1
SPEAKER_02
Did you and Stephanie always plan to become parents?
1
SPEAKER_04
Well, I had always wanted to be a parent.
1
SPEAKER_04
She always wanted to be a parent.
1
SPEAKER_04
I was trying to have a child.
1
SPEAKER_04
And when we first started dating, I was secretly trying to get pregnant.
1
SPEAKER_04
And then I was scared that I would run her off because she was 15 years younger than me and had never dated a woman.
1
SPEAKER_04
We met on an independent film.
1
SPEAKER_04
We both had two small roles in it.
1
SPEAKER_04
And then later, when the movie went to Sundance, we were both single.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I was through my illnesses.
1
SPEAKER_04
And that s how we ended up getting together.
1
SPEAKER_04
It wasn t even during the film.
1
SPEAKER_04
But I just thought, OK, I m not going to tell her I ll get pregnant.
1
SPEAKER_04
And not I ll get pregnant.
1
SPEAKER_04
I was going to have a surrogate.
1
SPEAKER_04
So I thought, OK, I ll have the surrogate.
1
SPEAKER_04
carry the baby and so I ll have nine months to like secure this relationship.
1
SPEAKER_04
And then I was having to go to these doctor s appointments.
1
SPEAKER_04
I was also having, you know, my moods were all over the place.
1
SPEAKER_04
So I shared it with her, just feeling scared that she s going to be like, Oh my God,
1
SPEAKER_04
older lesbian having a baby.
1
SPEAKER_04
Like, this is not what I signed up for.
1
SPEAKER_04
But I told her and she was like, oh, I want kids too.
1
SPEAKER_04
And she was like, I don t want you going to doctor s appointments by yourself.
1
SPEAKER_04
I want to be there.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I was like, what?
1
SPEAKER_04
What?
1
SPEAKER_04
And she was like, I always wanted five kids.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I thought, five kids?
1
SPEAKER_04
I thought, well, I ve never considered five kids, but I like you so much that
1
SPEAKER_04
Sure, let s have five kids.
1
SPEAKER_04
I always thought I d have one.
1
SPEAKER_04
But yeah, we stayed together, and we ended up doing the IVF and surrogate situation together.
1
SPEAKER_04
And we now have nearly eight-year-old twins and a production company and three cats.
1
SPEAKER_02
And twins is like, I think you re the first mother we ve spoken to who had twins.
1
SPEAKER_02
What s that like?
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, what is that like?
1
SPEAKER_02
Because I barely handled one.
1
SPEAKER_04
We look at people that have one child, and we re like, that is hilarious.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, we do too.
1
SPEAKER_03
We both have two children.
1
SPEAKER_03
They were born separately.
1
SPEAKER_03
They were born separately.
1
SPEAKER_03
We aren t strong enough to have twins, but we do think that.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_03
It s what a child s like.
1
SPEAKER_04
I mean, we obviously don t know any different.
1
SPEAKER_04
Selfishly, I think it s easier because you get both of them out at the same time and they re like in the same size clothes.
1
SPEAKER_04
They re in the same grade.
1
SPEAKER_04
They re in the same, you just kind of move it on.
1
SPEAKER_04
There you go.
1
SPEAKER_04
Both of you get, you know, but it s definitely hard.
1
SPEAKER_04
I would say our relationship was really strained in ways that it wasn t.
1
SPEAKER_04
for probably the first three years of their lives, because I personally feel like when they became four,
1
SPEAKER_04
it wasn t so crazy because our sons, they re both so active.
1
SPEAKER_04
I mean, they play soccer, baseball, basketball.
1
SPEAKER_04
They re on swim team, street hockey.
1
SPEAKER_04
They do every sport.
1
SPEAKER_04
They re constantly moving.
1
SPEAKER_04
And we would always marvel when we would be at like preschool or playdates or whatever.
1
SPEAKER_04
And kids would just sit on their parents  laps and we were like,
1
SPEAKER_03
What?
1
SPEAKER_04
What is that like?
1
SPEAKER_04
Because our kids were not like that at all.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I feel like they started to mellow more at four and they were listening.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I mean, we don t have any plans to have more children.
1
SPEAKER_04
But I do feel like I am someone that if Stephanie was like,
1
SPEAKER_04
Should we have another?
1
SPEAKER_04
I d be like, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, let s do it.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_04
But I don t know why I don t think we re going to.
1
SPEAKER_04
It s definitely hard.
1
SPEAKER_04
It was definitely hard wrangling twin boys.
1
SPEAKER_03
Well, that it does get I don t know, I think part of it getting easier, like them gaining more independence, I think.
1
SPEAKER_03
makes my experience of parenting much more enjoyable and I m not so scared if they can kind of verbalize what s going on like just living with like a ticking time bomb when they re like newborns or babies before they can really express themselves.
1
SPEAKER_03
I found that so
1
SPEAKER_03
I don t know, difficult to manage because I felt like walking on eggshells, that you re just not sure exactly what s wrong.
1
SPEAKER_03
But now I think I have two sons and the older they get, I think the more I m able to relax and just actually experience parenting rather than forcing my will onto them or feeling scared all the time.
1
SPEAKER_04
Do you have a favorite age so far?
1
SPEAKER_04
I mean, of course every age was incredible, but I would have to say now and also
1
SPEAKER_04
I ve always loved three.
1
SPEAKER_04
When they re talking in full sentences, but they re still struggling to say the right words and they can t pronounce things correctly.
1
SPEAKER_04
I love it.
1
SPEAKER_04
They re just, just, they re the best.
1
SPEAKER_04
Do they make you laugh all the time?
1
SPEAKER_04
Oh my gosh.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_04
I always tell people I live in a house of writers like they write all my material for me and our son Finn kind of makes us laugh.
1
SPEAKER_04
and not necessarily in a way that he means to.
1
SPEAKER_04
He has a very type A personality, and he loves a schedule.
1
SPEAKER_04
And when it s bedtime, he ll tell his brother Max, he ll be like, Max, it s getting kind of late.
1
SPEAKER_04
We should probably take a bath.
1
SPEAKER_04
And Max is like, oh, I just wanted to build another Lego set.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I m like, Max, you don t have to listen to Finn.
1
SPEAKER_04
You know?
1
SPEAKER_04
And then Max, I always say, was born 60 years old.
1
SPEAKER_04
And he is bone dry.
1
SPEAKER_04
And people are always like, oh, I wonder where he got that.
1
SPEAKER_04
But he is a comedian through and through.
1
SPEAKER_04
And he loves words.
1
SPEAKER_04
He journals.
1
SPEAKER_04
He writes jokes.
1
SPEAKER_04
He writes cartoons.
1
SPEAKER_04
But yes, they re very funny in very different ways.
1
SPEAKER_04
I mark my words, I think he will go in.
1
SPEAKER_03
You can see it.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_04
I can see it.
1
SPEAKER_03
I think like humor is such a huge part of life, but especially being a mom.
1
SPEAKER_03
Do you ever joke with your kids?
1
SPEAKER_03
Do you think, I mean, in general, that humor is a way that you parent them?
1
SPEAKER_04
I definitely make jokes and I, gosh, I get on my own nerves because I hate that I ve become the parent that is annoying, that has the bad jokes.
1
SPEAKER_04
Like, it s ridiculous that I am a professional comedian and in my house, I rolls.
1
SPEAKER_04
eye rolls with my... Already?
1
SPEAKER_03
Oh my god.
1
SPEAKER_04
I love that.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I m like, oh my gosh, I m that person.
1
SPEAKER_04
And the fact that I am that person that s saying I m that person.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_04
It s just like, endlessly horrifying to me.
1
SPEAKER_03
And is Stephanie siding with them?
1
SPEAKER_03
Like, does Stephanie give you the eye rolls?
1
SPEAKER_03
Or is it more just like, these two guys are an audience that doesn t care for this material?
1
SPEAKER_04
Well, Stephanie calls me Aunt Tig when I make a bad joke.
1
SPEAKER_04
She ll be like, okay Aunt Tig.
1
SPEAKER_04
I m like, why can t I catch a break in my own house?
1
SPEAKER_02
It s really the most humbling experience to be a mother.
1
SPEAKER_02
You re being cast in more and more TV shows and movies lately.
1
SPEAKER_02
If you were to play a mom, what mom would be fun for you to play?
1
SPEAKER_04
I mean, as I tell everyone, I don t have a tremendous amount of range in my acting, so it would have to be, I always say, I m Tig in space, Tig in a helicopter, you know, Tig in a police uniform.
1
SPEAKER_04
I mean, there s a part of me that thinks it would be fun to like really dress me up in a wig and a house dress and try and play straight mom and see how that flies.
1
SPEAKER_04
Because I think that would just be out of the gate humorous for people to see me in that look.
1
SPEAKER_03
Do you have any favorite moms like in TV or movies or like do any moms stand out as like kind of iconic roles that you ve seen growing up or now?
1
SPEAKER_04
I was the biggest fan.
1
SPEAKER_04
And you remember the TV show Good Times in the 70s and 80s?
1
SPEAKER_04
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, it s comforting to know there s still some respect for Black power around here.
1
SPEAKER_02
Mama, you should be resting.
1
SPEAKER_02
You re supposed to be weak.
1
SPEAKER_01
They only took out my appendix, not my mouth nor my fist.
1
SPEAKER_04
I feel like that show was so incredible because it hit with comedy so big.
1
SPEAKER_04
And then it also hit in such dramatic ways that when I think about it as an adult, in fact, I d love to go back and rewatch that show because I feel like the parents on there, they were so funny, but they had that like,
1
SPEAKER_04
They love their kids and their family.
1
SPEAKER_04
And I think I just connect, like my mother was so like, I will rip your head off if, you know what I mean?
1
SPEAKER_04
And I think that s what I respond to, like that vibe of like, I love my kids.
1
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, it is so fierce.
1
SPEAKER_04
The other mom, and she reminded me so much of the vibe of my mother, was Cher in Mask.
1
SPEAKER_04
Did you see that movie?
1
SPEAKER_04
Oh, my gosh.
1
SPEAKER_04
Cher s character in Mask just destroyed me and made me that way.
1
SPEAKER_04
I was like, this is my mother, too.
1
SPEAKER_04
You know, she was a single mom and she just loved her son so fiercely.
1
SPEAKER_04
And he had this condition that was a deadly condition.
1
SPEAKER_04
We re running a little bit late, so could you move it along?
1
SPEAKER_00
This is a public junior high school, Miss Dennis.
1
SPEAKER_00
There are special schools with wonderful facilities that might be more appropriate for his needs.
1
SPEAKER_04
Do you teach algebra and biology and English here?
1
SPEAKER_00
Of course.
1
SPEAKER_00
Those are his needs.
1
SPEAKER_04
She was just, I think, that
2
SPEAKER_00
free-spirited, badass mom that will rip your head off if you make the wrong move.
2
SPEAKER_00
And there is a moment when her son goes off to camp and she s just a bumbling mess.
2
SPEAKER_00
She s writing him a letter, just sobbing.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s so good.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s so good.
2
SPEAKER_03
Have you ever seen a depiction of what your experience of motherhood is?
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I guess I would say, um, the kids are all right.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s a good one.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Hey, Bug.
2
SPEAKER_01
Come here.
2
SPEAKER_01
We re watching Locked Up Abroad.
2
SPEAKER_01
I want my knife back!
2
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, I ve seen that one.
2
SPEAKER_04
It s good.
2
SPEAKER_01
Where are you going?
2
SPEAKER_04
Clay s.
2
SPEAKER_01
Don t be back late.
2
SPEAKER_04
I know.
2
SPEAKER_04
I know.
2
SPEAKER_04
I know.
2
SPEAKER_01
Hey, hey.
2
SPEAKER_01
Come give us a hug before you go.
2
SPEAKER_01
Hugs.
2
SPEAKER_03
Come on.
2
SPEAKER_03
No, Mom.
2
SPEAKER_03
Hug her.
2
SPEAKER_03
That s what she s there for.
2
SPEAKER_00
It was like, wow, this is a mainstream film about gay parents.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, there are certainly characters or independent films or whatever, but it was crazy to see these huge movie stars.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think, you know, that s the tricky thing is there s a lot of pushback when there are characters played by straight people in TV and film.
2
SPEAKER_00
where people get upset about it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And my wife and I have, you know, we are obviously gay and we also work in TV and film and we ve seen how sometimes you can t get a film made because there s not a gay person in real life that fits a character description or is available at the time.
2
SPEAKER_00
Or all of those things don t line up always exactly the way you want or hope.
2
SPEAKER_00
And people are like, why aren t they this or they should be this?
2
SPEAKER_00
And you re like, God, if you could see how complicated it gets.
2
SPEAKER_00
when the production is going.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I also feel like it s important to not make the actors the most important element of the film, because there s also gay writers working on the film.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s gay producers.
2
SPEAKER_00
There might be a gay director.
2
SPEAKER_00
There might be somebody, you know what I mean?
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, it can t all be
2
SPEAKER_00
just the lead actors, as long as there s inclusivity throughout the film.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think there s massive strides to go, but I don t think that we can discount that there has been some major strides, and I think it s exciting.
2
SPEAKER_00
You are unbelievable.
2
SPEAKER_00
Thanks for having me.
2
SPEAKER_00
It was so nice to talk to you as well.
2
SPEAKER_01
Thank you so much.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re amazing.
2
SPEAKER_01
You are the funniest.
2
SPEAKER_01
Not in my house.
2
SPEAKER_03
Not in my house.
2
SPEAKER_04
Not in your house.
2
SPEAKER_03
That was our conversation with comedian Tig Notaro.
2
SPEAKER_03
Tig has a new comedy special on Prime Video called Hello Again.
2
SPEAKER_03
And for more Tig in your life, listen to her podcast, Handsome.
2
SPEAKER_03
I love that she s remarking about how different her kids seem to be growing up than she did.
2
SPEAKER_03
Because we talk about this all the time.
2
SPEAKER_03
Like we re always like, do you think that our parents had a strategy or a philosophy guiding them?
2
SPEAKER_04
I know.
2
SPEAKER_04
I ve thought about that a million times.
2
SPEAKER_04
And finally, because of Tig, I was like, hey, mom, what s your parenting philosophy?
2
SPEAKER_04
And first, she was very confused.
2
SPEAKER_04
She was like, huh?
2
SPEAKER_04
What do you mean?
2
SPEAKER_04
Which tells you everything you need to know.
2
SPEAKER_04
But then she said, you know, my goal when you were young was to just fill you with as much love as possible.
2
SPEAKER_04
But she had a very important caveat, which is it wasn t
2
SPEAKER_04
possible until I started taking antidepressants. 
2
SPEAKER_04
And she said, and you can share that on the pod.
2
SPEAKER_03
I m Sabrina Kohlberg.
2
SPEAKER_03
And I m Andy Mitchell.
2
SPEAKER_03
That s it for the first season of Pop Culture Moms.
2
SPEAKER_03
But we won t be gone for long.
2
SPEAKER_03
Season two begins on Tuesday, June 4th.
2
SPEAKER_03
And we ll be back in your ears with all things pop culture and parenting before you know it.
2
SPEAKER_03
Until then, please follow the show, leave a review, and tell your friends.
2
SPEAKER_03
Pop Culture Moms is a production of ABC Audio in partnership with Good Morning America.
2
SPEAKER_03
Hosted by me, Sabrina Kohlberg.
2
SPEAKER_03
And me, Andy Mitchell.
2
SPEAKER_03
Our show is produced by Camille Peterson, Asal Asanipour, Sabrina Kohlberg, and me.
2
SPEAKER_03
Music by Evan Viola.
2
SPEAKER_03
Special thanks to Emily Schutz, Susie Liu, Josh Cohan, Arielle Chester, Liz Alessi, and Simone Swink, the executive producer of GMA.
2
SPEAKER_04
Laura Mayer is the executive producer of podcasts for ABC Audio.
2
SPEAKER_02
With so much at stake, young people became activists.
2
SPEAKER_02
We can t let this happen in California.
2
SPEAKER_02
And activists became leaders.
2
SPEAKER_02
My name is Harvey Milk and I m here to include you.
2
SPEAKER_02
Slow Burn, Season 9.
2
SPEAKER_02
Gays Against Briggs.
2
SPEAKER_02
Out now, wherever you listen.