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Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert, experts on expert.
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I m Dan Rather, and I m joined by Modest Mouse.
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Hi there.
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Hi.
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Jacques-Marie Marge.
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Jacques-Marie, she s, Imani s in her Jacques-Marie Marge new sunglasses looking very cool.
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Yeah, and if you want to hear more, which I know you do, listen to the fact check.
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How could you resist?
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Try not to skip forward all the way to the fact check right now, because you re so hot to hear about the Jacques-Marie Marge.
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Today, to finish out Fargo week, to close strong, and you heard the reverence that both of the actors we spoke to this week have for this man, Noah Hawley.
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He is the creator and the showrunner and the screenwriter and the director of Fargo.
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He s so outrageously talented.
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He s also a novelist.
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We ll get into this.
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Maybe the most prolific writer.
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No, we had R.L.
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Stine.
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I guess he sets the bar pretty high for prolificness.
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I m just saying quantity.
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The fact that Noah wrote six novels while he was writing several different TV shows seems impossible.
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That is a lot.
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But you probably love him from Fargo.
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He also created and ran Legion, Lucy in the Sky, My Generation, The Usuals, his books, just to name a few, The Anthem, Before the Fall, and The Good Father.
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And of course, season five of FX s Fargo is out now, which you probably have already consumed.
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And if not, I m so jealous.
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Noah is so smart.
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This is such an interesting episode.
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Yeah, he definitely felt more like when we interview a professor from Harvard.
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Yes, it doesn t feel esoteric, which sometimes is the fear when we have showrunners or directors on.
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It doesn t feel like that at all.
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He s just an all around polymath.
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Hardcore.
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Please enjoy Noah Hawley.
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He s an armchair expert.
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He s an armchair expert.
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He s an armchair expert.
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Welcome.
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Thanks for being here.
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Hi, Monica.
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Nice to meet you.
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I would ask if you re always up this early, but with the noise, I would imagine it s hard to ever sleep.
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I am up this early.
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We don t ever record this early.
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This is unique.
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I appreciate you changing it up.
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We did this one other time.
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Do you remember when I crashed my bicycle in the way to work?
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It was an expert.
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I don t remember, but yes, you crashed.
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It was an expert.
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We were willing to do it at like 7 in the morning and I used to live
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a thousand feet that way through this gated neighborhood.
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And I have this electric bike, and I m coming over this hill, it s pitch black, it s like six in the morning, and I m flying on this electric bike and right as I cross the hill, there s a car coming.
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So I swerve to the right, and then immediately there s a parked, it s like a set piece happening in real life.
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So this one went much easier.
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I m so glad.
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I don t want anyone injured in the making of this part.
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I m not a big believer in suffering for art.
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I think it s misguided and macho thing.
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I agree.
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Yeah, that s actually a really great first topic because I look around me and I hear these horror stories.
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I m not going to name names.
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Well, I m going to name some names and then we re going to cut them out.
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I hear these experiences of these different directors.
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I have to acknowledge that the work is fucking great.
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Yeah.
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It s so disheartening.
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I m like, is that the only way?
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But I mean, clearly it s not.
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But do you ever succumb to that fear?
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Like, God, can you do it as a nice guy?
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Yeah, you can do it as a nice guy.
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There s no reason you can t do it as a nice guy.
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And there s no reason you can t just do your best work and go home to your family.
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Yeah.
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And I ve certainly been exposed to the other side of it, of people who believe that the drama has to exist off the screen as well as on the screen.
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And I think that s completely inefficient.
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I don t think it buys you anything really other than trauma.
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Right, right.
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And I read the 800 page book on the making of 2001 A Space Odyssey.
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I don t know if you read that at all.
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I haven t.
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Please save me the 800 pages.
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Well, I read it.
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Two people almost died.
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You know, when they put the ape makeup on, you ve got about three minutes of air.
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Oh, wow.
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And the same with the space helmets.
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So they almost killed a couple of actors because Kubrick was like, keep rolling.
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And so I read this 800 page book while I was making Lucy in the Sky.
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And I thought, well, if anyone wrote a book about this movie, they d say they made the movie.
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And that would be the book because it was just we just showed up every day.
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We made the movie.
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And I think all the energy is on the screen.
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But then again, you know, 2001 Space Odyssey, it s a masterpiece.
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Of course.
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Yeah.
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I feel like it s an excuse to just be horrible.
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Like I need this.
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I ve earned it.
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Sure.
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Well, let s put it this way.
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There s like a level of dedication and perfectionism that exists probably for Fincher who s willing to do 78 takes.
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I admire what he s doing.
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And then in that process, people are likely going to suffer.
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And then that s when I start going like, fuck, do I have it in me?
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But there s a difference, I think, between what you re calling suffering and what David does.
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I mean, yes, it s a lot of takes within the energy of the day, but it s not psychological manipulation and melodramas off the screen.
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And Ridley Scott, who I m working with on this Alien series, told me,
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a story about when he made Alien, he would always have an AD or something jump out at the actors at some point during the day and scream in there to scare the crap out of them.
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You know what I mean?
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Because as a young director, he thought that that energy was required to keep the level of fear up on the set.
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As an older man, he knows it s called acting.
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You don t need to do that.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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There s some pretty famous Dustin Hoffman quotes about that similarly.
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He had stayed up all night long for Marathon Man, and then he got to run another actor, and he said, you know, that s a fine approach, but also you could act.
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Right.
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Which is what you ve been paid to do.
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Yeah, it s interesting.
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I work with a lot of British actors, especially in the Fargo world, and what I always love about them is that they can be really grounded and real, but they know what movie they re in.
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They know that it s a slightly heightened tone, and sometimes you get the more Method-y
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American actors and it s hard for them to keep in mind that there s comedy in here.
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Yes, there s violence coming.
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Yes, we re facing these forces of darkness, but the tone is elevated and the Brits are so good at the energy of denial versus acceptance.
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Well, it s almost built in culturally, right?
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They re just not easily riled.
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Right.
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It s almost like as a cultural pride.
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They re sipping tea as bombs are cascading down.
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Right.
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And the fun is to just keep increasing the pressure until they crack.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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This is very early for me, so I m a little out of my sorts, but I know stuff about you already within like the first two minutes you re sitting here.
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Okay, tell me.
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Okay.
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You re pretty hyper vigilant.
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Is that a fair assessment?
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Vigilant in terms of being aware of my surroundings.
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Yeah, I pay attention.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Me too.
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I m aware.
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And a lot of it in comedy is it s all material, right?
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So you say something and then 10 minutes later, if I don t remember it, I can t bring it back.
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Pay it off.
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Yeah.
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But I m also a dad, so you re always like, that s a sharp corner.
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How old are your kids?
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Well, they re older now.
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I have a 16 and an 11 year old.
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Are they in school in Austin?
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They are.
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Did they start here in LA in school?
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My daughter did a year here, but I ve only really ever lived in LA maybe three years total over the 20 years of my
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career.
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I started in San Francisco and then I came down to L.A.
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and I worked on the show Bones for a couple of years.
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But then I got my own show and we filmed it in New York and then we moved to Austin.
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And then somewhere around the first season of Fargo, I had this panic that we were doing it wrong, like we d retired to Austin and we needed to get back.
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So we moved back to L.A.
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My wife was pregnant and within like four months they picked up Fargo and then we moved to Canada to shoot there.
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And my wife says that I was making Fargo and she was living it.
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There s kids in school, and you know, 40 below zero.
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In the great north.
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But you re from New York.
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I grew up, yeah, in the West Village.
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I gotta say, well, I m just a hyper Fargo fan, okay?
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I talk about it on here all the time.
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I just could not be more blown away.
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particularly with season five, for many reasons.
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A, it s just the most incredible season.
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But then also, I find it so impressive that, by my estimation, that season five could possibly be the best season so far.
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It s like its own unique triumph.
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Thank you, I really appreciate that.
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And my hope was that if I was going to do another one that the only acceptable review was Back and Better Than Ever.
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It sort of concentrated Fargo this year.
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The episodes are really tight and short.
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There s a lot of suspense and energy to it.
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It s not as philosophical a season as some of the early ones.
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Last year, set in 1950,
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23 main characters, 60 minute episodes, which was a triumph in my mind for different reasons.
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But coming back this time, I really thought, you know, as a viewer, I was feeling a little overwhelmed by the volume of story within a show.
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It s hard to know what that critical mass is.
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And I think when you re inside of it, you certainly aren t the best to evaluate.
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Not that I m agreeing with your criticism of it or
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anything, just it s hard to know critical mass in that.
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When is it fatiguing?
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It is.
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And my motto is, what else can I get away with?
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And so you want to push
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the envelopes and certainly going into a fourth year of Fargo, it s sort of what haven t we done?
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Going into a fifth season and going back to the movie, feeling like we ve finally earned the right to engage directly with the movie Fargo.
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It did just create a story that was super streamlined and was really fun.
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The trick of it was there was a lot of comedy in the scripts and then the moment that you make it real and you bring in the violence and especially the domestic violence, managing that tone becomes a lot trickier.
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Yeah, I even heard it like inside thing I want to know about later to that exact point of like, when have we dipped into a hole we shan t climb out of is quite a task.
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Yeah.
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And you see that Coen brothers tone, it requires a sort of narrower bandwidth.
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You can t descend into farce and still maintain the drama and the violence, and you can t get too brutal and still maintain the comedy.
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So you re always trying to adjust where you are.
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Yeah.
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Anytime you re dipping in and out of different almost genres, yet a cohesive tone.
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I think that s the most artful tightrope walk one does.
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And so few people do it successfully.
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Like if you look at all the Pulp Fiction knockoffs that came, it s like he too is a master of you re laughing at this violence.
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Scorsese, you re laughing at the mailman being shoved in the oven.
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But there s a handful.
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Yeah.
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If you look at the show, you know, a lot of it has to do with where music is and what music is.
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And if you re managing multiple tones, you can t score the comedy or you ll lose the drama and you can t score the drama.
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Otherwise the comedy goes away.
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And so it becomes very tricky sometimes to figure out where the cue goes and what the cue should be.
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This season, especially with Juno and the suspense and the sense because she is this creative problem solver.
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I talked with Jeff Russo, the composer, about creating this sort of like, there she goes again, like scheming kind of cue that can come in at certain moments.
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She s in MacGyver mode.
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Yeah.
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That reminds you that there s something playful that s happening here.
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But if you overuse it, then it pulls the teeth out of the suspense.
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It s a complicated dance that goes all the way from script to the locked cut.
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Yeah, it s very, very precise.
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Have you gained confidence over this amount of time?
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Like when you started season one, I assume it was more of like, oh God, are we about to do something crazy?
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And now it s gotten a lot of validation over time.
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I assume you ve gotten more confident.
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Yeah, you know, it was such a terrible idea to adapt Fargo, the movie, that it was actually pretty liberating to feel like, well, two people are going to watch this and one of them is going to hate watch it.
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But the other thing was that under the auspices of making a Coen brothers movie, I could get away with things that I couldn t get away with if it was just me.
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So I could say like, well, it s not that I want a 10 minute parable sequence, right?
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But it is a Coen brothers movie.
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So it feels like that s in the cinematic language of their storytelling.
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You re also inheriting an audience in a sense that has already declared a tone they love.
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So there s also a lot of benefit to it, I d imagine.
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But I want to skip back.
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So when I asked to get you on here, it was of a fan of Fargo, right?
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And then, of course, I was also aware of Legion.
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And then in researching you yesterday, I really didn t understand the brunt of what you ve been up to for the last 15 years.
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You ve written six novels.
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You ve created five TV shows, maybe six.
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You ve done features.
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You ve written many features.
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It s bonkers.
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But I have to say the thing that almost answered the most for me to learn about you was I think we re in this really incredible year of feminist
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Product and the best I ve ever seen the most obvious is Barbie that was this year and that was phenomenal But I don t know if you saw poor things.
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Yes, but fucking poor things.
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I m like, wow, they Articulated this thing that men have in the most elegant and incredible way.
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It s so brutally honest
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It s the Anthony Bourdain story.
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And then this season of Fargo is so feminist in the most delightful way.
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So I m reading about you and finding out like, oh, your mother was a very outspoken activist, feminist activist, talking about sexual abuse, talking about incest, writing books, speaking around the world.
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And then I thought, okay, this kind of adds up for me how you pulled off
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such a feminist point of view in this season.
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So I m just, I want to go back to New York, growing up with that mother, and also buckle up, Monica.
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He s an, well, not identical.
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Are you and Alexi identical?
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Fraternal.
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Fraternal twin, and his brother created the rookie, his brother has created a few TV shows.
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Wow.
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Yes.
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Okay.
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So this is all the insanely exciting stuff I learned yesterday, but can we talk about what life in Manhattan was like with that mom and a twin brother?
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Yeah, I mean, I grew up in Manhattan in the 70s and 80s, and my mother was a writer.
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Her mother had been a writer.
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Her mother, who had emigrated from Ukraine when she was
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five years old and never had more than an eighth grade education.
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She ended up as the assistant to Walter Lippmann, who ran the New York World and was a very famous essayist at the time.
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She was a playwright and she moved in that Maxwell Anderson circle.
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Then she had my mother and my mother s first book.
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It was a children s book.
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It was called A Child s Guide to Freud.
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And perfect.
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It was an illustrated Oedipal complex story.
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This is Billy.
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He wants to sleep with his mother and kill his father.
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That was a quite hip thing in 1964, whenever she published it.
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And she was born in 37, right?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So my parents, they were just before the baby boomer, all the hippie stuff.
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Like we tried the commune thing early on, but my parents ended up the grownups at the commune, which is not driving the school bus with no headlights, but somebody has got to be on the roof with the flashlight.
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And right.
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So we were in the West Village in the late 70s.
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My mother, who had been an incest survivor, she wrote this book, Kiss Daddy Goodnight, and she sent the proposal to a lot of publishers and they said, what s a fascinating subject, but it s just so rare.
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Oh, right, right.
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So I ve talked about me molested on here.
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As a dude in 2020, found that to be one of the most impossible things to talk about publicly.
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So where does this woman born in 1937 have the gall to admit she has been a victim of incest?
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Because that s got to be the single most taboo topic.
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Well, certainly it was.
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It s something that people don t want to talk about.
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And at that time, as I said, it s so rare, quote unquote, you know, but I think part of it was being in the New York second wave feminism environment, knowing the Andrea Dworkin s and Susan Brown Miller s and Gloria Steinem s.
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And there s a certain empowerment.
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I think that comes from seeing other people telling their stories.
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And she was tough, my mom.
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She had a great sense of humor and she pushed hard on things.
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And she didn t have a college education either.
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She never made it past high school.
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And so her whole thing was, I m just asking a question.
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And so she did that book and book on domestic violence, book on kids in private psych hospitals.
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And it was always just like, well, bringing the audience in for
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Help me figure this out.
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If it s a crime to do it to the neighbor s kid, why isn t it a crime to do it to your own kid?
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Right, that was the premise.
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This idea of incest survivor was very political at the time.
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Political in the sense that there was a criminal element to it, right?
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And there was this sense of consequences.
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But what survivor meant to her was you had survived it and you had moved on.
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And then what was born in the aftermath of that book was the self-help industry, which came up in the 80s and had a lot to do with incest.
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Once everyone realized, oh, it s not that rare, then surviving became this thing that you did for your whole life.
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It became a self-help thing, not we need to change the laws.
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And so that was always the element in our house was that it was never this touchy-feely thing.
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It was always like, well, we need to treat people better and we need the laws to reflect that.
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Well, now as adults, you and I can appreciate how brave and incredible that that was the road she took.
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But I can also imagine as the son and a young kid being pretty embarrassed that this is mom s work.
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I don t remember feeling that when you re a boy raised by, you know, a feminist mother.
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I mean, our parents sort of train us anyway, right?
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You always think that your parents are normal.
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That s what normality is.
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And because this was happening before adolescence, for me, you don t have that same kind of embarrassment.
1
SPEAKER_02
If I d been 13 and suddenly those issues were in front of me, it would have been a different environment, I think.
1
SPEAKER_02
But instead, it just seemed normal.
1
SPEAKER_02
She would have these innocent survivors coming through and interview them.
1
SPEAKER_02
It was a speak out, so there was people telling their own stories and she d pay each of them a dollar.
1
SPEAKER_02
So there was some contract, some rights thing, and they would just tell their stories.
1
SPEAKER_02
I certainly wasn t in the room for those stories.
1
SPEAKER_02
Being told, but I was there for the meals.
1
SPEAKER_02
I was there for the friends that she made during that process.
1
SPEAKER_02
And yeah, if you look at Fargo, Fargo is a female show.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s Frances McDormand.
1
SPEAKER_02
Alien is a female movie.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s Sigourney Weaver.
1
SPEAKER_02
And so the power of orienting me as a storyteller, I can t overestimate the impact of that.
1
SPEAKER_00
I have a similar mother.
1
SPEAKER_00
Minimally, I saw modeled.
1
SPEAKER_00
woman being capable of absolutely anything and I think that s really impactful.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know it s such a positive thing that said that survival that
2
SPEAKER_01
idea that you had that experience and moved on from it didn t prove to be psychologically true for her.
2
SPEAKER_01
Do you know what I mean?
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t think for anyone, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so my parents were sort of madman generation.
2
SPEAKER_01
So it was smoking, it was drinking, and that stuff catches up with you.
2
SPEAKER_01
And she became, in the back half of her life, a sort of more frightened person.
2
SPEAKER_01
And she was an alcoholic.
2
SPEAKER_01
It was catching up with her.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so part of what I ve done in this year of Fargo, because there s always a character in Fargo who is denying reality to themselves, just like Bill Macy in the movie.
2
SPEAKER_01
He did this terrible thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
He was doing everything he could to stay away from it psychologically.
2
SPEAKER_01
He wouldn t even admit it to himself.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so those characters like Kirsten Dunst s character, Martin Freeman s character, that denial of reality is always tragic for everyone around them.
2
SPEAKER_01
And Juno s character is very similar, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Even though she s fun, protecting everyone, she s still not really admitting what happened to her.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so a big part of the season was differentiating her from those earlier characters and having her face the abuse that she suffered so that she could heal from it and then happily ever after for the people around her, potentially.
2
SPEAKER_00
I didn t notice the parallel until you just said it, but in a weird way, it s almost the same device as like Born, where he doesn t know why he s got all these skills.
2
SPEAKER_00
And we get that same sense from her when we meet her, like, oh, she has this bizarre skill set that seems pretty inexplicable as a woman at the PTA meeting.
2
SPEAKER_00
Does she know?
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s funny that it can be self-imposed, that device.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and it s not that she s actually ignorant of her past.
2
SPEAKER_01
It really is, well, I don t want to go back there.
2
SPEAKER_01
And if I admit it, this life that I ve built is going to go away.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I m going to do everything I can to pretend it s not happening for as long as possible.
2
SPEAKER_01
It endangers her husband.
2
SPEAKER_01
It endangers her child.
2
SPEAKER_01
But because she s such a fun and mischievous character, we don t ever go, like, this is the world s worst mom.
2
SPEAKER_01
She s been so reckless with everyone she loves.
2
SPEAKER_01
But what I love is that she teaches her daughter how to be prepared without teaching her to be afraid, which I think is a really critical thing because there s too much fear in our world.
2
SPEAKER_01
But it s good to be prepared for things, just not to live in fear of them.
2
SPEAKER_00
How does being a twin, because twins pop up all over the place in your work.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s a lot of brother stuff, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, but even the notion that Ewan McGregor is playing an identical twin in one season, then you have twins in a few different.
2
SPEAKER_00
The Kitchen Brothers in the second year.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then outside of the Fargo universe, in your book, The Good Father.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
He suspects his son has killed somebody.
2
SPEAKER_00
He newly
2
SPEAKER_00
has twins, isn t that right?
2
SPEAKER_00
He does.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then the punch has brothers in it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Do you have?
2
SPEAKER_00
I have an older brother.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I have the most little brother complex you ve ever seen.
2
SPEAKER_00
He s five years older.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I was convinced I was terrible at everything.
2
SPEAKER_00
I just live to be invited to anything he did.
2
SPEAKER_00
But we have a shared identity yet at the same time.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because of the chaos in our house.
2
SPEAKER_00
I was just writing about it this weekend.
2
SPEAKER_00
We looked at each other at some point in life and thought,
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, right.
2
SPEAKER_00
Everyone s nuts, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
You see it and it s you and I and it s us against the world.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that s a bond.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s pretty bonkers.
2
SPEAKER_00
We re not twins, but I do have that thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes, it s certainly formative.
2
SPEAKER_01
And what you don t really have as a twin is personal space.
2
SPEAKER_01
I married a woman who s an only child and she d be happy to never be alone again.
2
SPEAKER_01
I relish my privacy because I spent 18, 20 years not necessarily sharing a room, but definitely sharing a life.
2
SPEAKER_01
Same high school, same college.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was going to be a musician and I played guitar and sang and he played drums and we had a band.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so there was this segue when it s time to choose a college.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s like, well, we want to keep that.
2
SPEAKER_01
going.
2
SPEAKER_00
The band together.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so we went to the same college.
2
SPEAKER_01
Was he a poli-sci major as well?
2
SPEAKER_01
There were no majors at Sarah Lawrence, where we went.
2
SPEAKER_00
Don t you have a degree in political science?
2
SPEAKER_01
I have a lovely BA from Sarah Lawrence.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t know what you would necessarily say it s in, but I did study a lot of political science there.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then we went to New York to try to be rock stars or whatever.
2
SPEAKER_01
But then there did come a point in my mid-20s, because it s not just my brother in the band, there s these other filthy penniless men, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
And you re just like, I kind of feel like I want to do something that doesn t involve
2
SPEAKER_01
this group activity everywhere that I go and I had started writing fiction and I wanted to change.
2
SPEAKER_01
It was New York in the 90s and it was not a great place and I never really known anything else and so I took a trip to San Francisco and I was just like you mean it can just be beautiful someplace and the bridge is orange and I moved there.
2
SPEAKER_01
People are paragliding off of things.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and really just sort of established my own thing for a decade.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was publishing, and my brother had started doing some screenwriting, trying to break into that.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then my first book was Optioned by Paramount, and I ended up adapting it for them, among other projects that got set up.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so we were suddenly on a parallel track.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s pretty comical, really.
2
SPEAKER_00
Back to the wife, because I, too, married an only child.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m going to make some guesses.
2
SPEAKER_00
Do you love to shut the door in the bedroom and she leaves it open?
2
SPEAKER_00
Let me see.
2
SPEAKER_00
You mean when we re in there or?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, just for me, I want that fucking door shut because my brother had access to me at all times and just took whatever he wanted from me.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I m like a big, I want the door shut.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think it s more of the mom thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think it s more of the, I would shut the door, but then what if the kids need something in the night, you know?
2
SPEAKER_01
And it s like, well, they re a little bit old now.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think they can figure that out.
2
SPEAKER_00
Do you like sharing food from your plate with her?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I don t mind that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, you do?
2
SPEAKER_00
No, I don t mind that.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then Sarah Lawrence, did you watch the doc on Sarah Lawrence?
2
SPEAKER_00
I did.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
Well, it was just the setting.
2
SPEAKER_02
I hate to make it a Sarah Lawrence doc because it s unfair to Sarah Lawrence.
2
SPEAKER_00
It is, but wasn t it in the title?
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, which is so unfair, but yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
What did you think of that doc?
2
SPEAKER_01
Monica and I loved it.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s a wild story.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s a unicorn, which is why those things like Wild, Wild Country, it s so tabloid and the behavior of that man was so crazy.
2
SPEAKER_01
But to be fair to my alma mater, the vast majority of that story- And to Bill Lawrence.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, the vast majority of that story happened in New York City, outside of the school.
2
SPEAKER_00
None of it was even on campus.
2
SPEAKER_00
Had nothing to do with the school.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
My fascination with that was
2
SPEAKER_02
Maybe remind people or tell people.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
So there is a man gets out of prison.
2
SPEAKER_00
His child is going to school at Sarah Lawrence.
2
SPEAKER_00
He moves in to her apartment.
2
SPEAKER_00
She is sharing that with four or five other kids.
2
SPEAKER_00
And slowly over the course of him living there, he grooms all of them to become members of really a cult.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then he takes them out into the city and they live in an apartment and they just have the most destructive
2
SPEAKER_00
dystopian existence.
2
SPEAKER_00
And for me, I was like, we re so much more vulnerable mentally than we ever want to acknowledge.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s just below the surface.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like when you see what the people would endure through that weird psychological manipulation of this person, and even really incredibly smart people, the one gal was a doctor.
2
SPEAKER_00
I looked at that and I was like, oh, it s so scary in that we all are very vulnerable.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and it started as a New York Magazine piece that I read, and of course if you re a certain level in Hollywood, everyone s always calling you to say, do you want to do something with this?
2
SPEAKER_01
And the thing about that story, for me, for all its salaciousness is, I need something positive.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know what I mean?
2
SPEAKER_01
You need a triumph.
2
SPEAKER_01
I made this movie, Lucy in the Sky, which was a fictionalized version of this sort of diaper astronaut story.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t know the diaper astronaut.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, it was this woman who had gone to space and she had started this affair with this other astronaut.
2
SPEAKER_01
At the space station?
2
SPEAKER_01
Back at NASA.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, sorry.
2
SPEAKER_01
Back on Earth.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s like going on MeCube.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, he had basically, it hadn t lasted long and then he had gotten involved with this other woman and so the female astronaut in question had driven across the country to confront the two of them with some half-cocked
2
SPEAKER_01
kidnapping scheme.
2
SPEAKER_01
And the story had been that she d worn a diaper for the drive.
2
SPEAKER_00
Now that s ringing a bell.
2
SPEAKER_01
She was in such a hurry.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so what I was interested in doing was taking a tabloid story, which, as we know, is a story that robs people of their dignity.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, let s give her dignity back because the reality is she was just a very troubled woman who had these big feelings and didn t know what to do with them.
2
SPEAKER_01
So when I looked at that Sarah Lawrence story, I was just like, well, I don t see what the upside is.
2
SPEAKER_01
Who am I rooting for in this story?
2
SPEAKER_01
It s just a tale of mass destruction, really.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s a heartbreaking story as a parent of these children with such promise in their futures who were totally derailed by a predatory criminal.
2
SPEAKER_01
Narcissist.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
I guess my interest in it is the exact interest I have in the Stanford prison experiment.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, I m preoccupied with how people dominate other people.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think that s my primary focus and who s going to try to dominate me and know where the potholes are.
2
SPEAKER_00
Wow, this is interesting.
2
SPEAKER_00
How does someone fall into this?
2
SPEAKER_00
Just psychologically, I found it very interesting and terrifying.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, because it doesn t seem possible.
2
SPEAKER_00
We tell ourselves.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s so transparent.
2
SPEAKER_01
Why would you?
2
SPEAKER_01
It s not like he s an attractive man.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he s coming in, he s somebody s dad, so I guess he has authority, but at 18, 19, are we really that intimidated by adults at that point?
2
SPEAKER_02
Well, I think you are lost.
2
SPEAKER_00
Searching.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
purporting to have had this extraordinary life as maybe a CIA agent or something.
3
SPEAKER_02
So he s really activated their own sense of romance and what life could be.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean, there s just a lot going on there.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s not like he s just a bozo that showed up, took his shirt off and he had followers.
3
SPEAKER_00
Charisma is a real thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
We see it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Certainly we see it in this town.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s sort of the business of an actor to be charismatic.
3
SPEAKER_00
I hope you re feeling it right now or I m powerless.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that s a good thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
There s at least four feet separating us.
3
SPEAKER_00
Certainly in our politics, we re feeling the power of charisma.
3
SPEAKER_00
Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.
3
SPEAKER_02
Going back to the band in New York, so I just have some guesses here because there s these interesting gaps.
3
SPEAKER_01
Was your dad around?
3
SPEAKER_01
I just have to ask that.
3
SPEAKER_00
My dad was around until my 30s.
3
SPEAKER_00
He had been an actor in New York.
3
SPEAKER_00
They met because she went to a play that he was in.
3
SPEAKER_00
And when he had kids, he went out and got a job and worked first at United Press International and then was part of the birth of
3
SPEAKER_00
cable television, worked at the first satellite news network, but he was in sales and he would travel first the country and then the world and ultimately he went to work for Westinghouse and traveled the world trying to sell country music, television, and the Nashville network to the Japanese.
3
SPEAKER_02
Oh wow.
3
SPEAKER_02
Did he succeed in that endeavor?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
But, you know, it also gave me a real sense of personal responsibility.
3
SPEAKER_00
He realized that he had to provide for his family.
3
SPEAKER_00
And he was such a great partner for my mom.
3
SPEAKER_00
And you see it reflected in the work.
3
SPEAKER_00
You see it reflected in the Wayne character, the husband, this exploration of masculinity.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_02
And being able to not be threatened by a woman who s dominant and strong and engaged.
3
SPEAKER_02
Wayne s a guy, he s got a car dealership, he brings home the money, but she s just better at the decisions.
3
SPEAKER_00
And his mother, again, it makes total sense he s married her.
3
SPEAKER_00
Very strong mother, and it s like he just wants to play floor hockey in his socks and watch Real Housewives.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, he doesn t need to be the boss of everything.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I feel the same way.
3
SPEAKER_00
I am a boss.
3
SPEAKER_00
I get to make so many decisions.
3
SPEAKER_00
Then when I go home, I m like, why do I have to be the boss here too?
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t need to, I don t want to.
3
SPEAKER_00
You talked about power and dominance and this idea of having to impose your will on others.
3
SPEAKER_00
And sometimes it literally will come out of anxiety for people of like, I need to have my way, otherwise I m not settled or comfortable.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I think the more that you can share the decision-making or a seed, some control, the healthier a person you are.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
So back to New York, I too had this moment where I was two years out of high school.
3
SPEAKER_02
I was living in a flat in Detroit with three other dudes.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then I had this moment of like, Oh, you re going to look up in 30 years and be in this flat.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I had this insatiable drive to not do that.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then moved out here by myself and was insanely lonely.
3
SPEAKER_02
And in that loneliness started writing, cause it was like my only escape.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I m curious what was happening in San Francisco.
3
SPEAKER_02
You were a paralegal there.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I had started in New York.
3
SPEAKER_00
In New York, I worked for the Legal Aid Society in family court.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so I was one of two paralegals for like 40 attorneys doing abuse and neglect cases, termination of parental rights cases, and juvenile delinquency cases.
3
SPEAKER_00
So both civil and criminal trials in a New York family court, you re really such a Band-Aid.
3
SPEAKER_00
in that.
3
SPEAKER_00
And there were attorneys who had worked there for so long that a child who had come in as a neglect case and then a termination of parental rights case was now a parent whose child was coming in.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
3
SPEAKER_00
They were watching the entire cycle.
3
SPEAKER_00
And they had to switch which they represent.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it was so demoralizing for people.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I was there for four years in New York.
3
SPEAKER_00
And that s where I started writing fiction really as a way to kind of process
3
SPEAKER_00
the stress of that and the emotion of it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then when I moved to San Francisco, I looked for similar work, but they didn t really have that kind of paid work in San Francisco.
3
SPEAKER_00
So yeah, I went to work for some law firm that represented Shell Oil Company.
3
SPEAKER_02
Okay, but so you re in San Francisco, Conspiracy of Tall Man s your first book.
3
SPEAKER_02
That s 98.
3
SPEAKER_02
How long had you been in San Francisco before that book gets published?
3
SPEAKER_00
It was like three years.
3
SPEAKER_00
San Francisco had such a great writing community.
3
SPEAKER_00
And there was this group called the Writers Grotto there, which had been started by these six writers, including Ethan Kanin and Poe Bronson, who basically just didn t want to write in their kitchens anymore.
3
SPEAKER_00
So they just rented office space.
3
SPEAKER_00
And when I published, I ended up meeting them and then becoming part of that group.
3
SPEAKER_00
We had 21 writers and filmmakers with their own offices in this old converted dog and cat hospital.
3
SPEAKER_00
It was a sort of dream come true.
3
SPEAKER_00
We had handball on the roof and we played basketball and there was always someone to have lunch with.
3
SPEAKER_00
And if you wanted to write a piece that you thought would be good for Esquire, you could find the guy who wrote for Esquire and the opposite of the Hollywood competitive nature.
3
SPEAKER_00
It was a very collaborative and warm place.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I was there for eight or nine years.
3
SPEAKER_00
San Francisco was interesting because it was the only place I ve ever lived where people make you feel like a loser for being successful.
3
SPEAKER_02
Right.
3
SPEAKER_02
It like mirrors Sweden in that way.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
You sort of show up at the party and everyone s like, what have you been up to?
3
SPEAKER_00
And you re like, well, the book s coming out and I m writing a feature, whatever.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it s like, you re holding up a mirror.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s what my wife calls the velvet rut.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s a lifestyle town and you can wake up one morning and you re 45.
3
SPEAKER_02
So is it safe to say you had a similar version of what happened in New York there?
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t want to say I outgrew it, but the Hollywood work really took off.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was single and I was like, well, there s nothing really holding me back from seeing where this wants to go.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I had written, I think, three TV pilots by that point.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I thought, well, if any of these ever gets picked up, I need to know how to make a show.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so I came down here for this pilot staffing season that we used to have when all we had was broadcast television.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I did the rounds and I had some options of what to work on, but I went to work on Bones because Hart Hanson, the creator, said, you re going to learn how to produce a show here.
3
SPEAKER_00
And he was good to his word.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
So you do Bones for three years.
3
SPEAKER_02
Then you write another novel, The Punch.
3
SPEAKER_02
Then you create, I guess, The Unusuals.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
In 09.
3
SPEAKER_02
Then in 2010, you create My Generation.
3
SPEAKER_02
Then 2012, The Good Father.
3
SPEAKER_02
Fargo starts in 2014.
3
SPEAKER_02
Which means 2013 for the writing of it, etc.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Can we just, for one second, collate publicly Warren Littlefield?
3
SPEAKER_00
Because...
3
SPEAKER_02
Warren was producing this project I had, and I immediately fell so in love with him.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then I was delighted in my research to find out that you re really involved with Fargo because of Warren.
3
SPEAKER_02
Is that safe to say?
3
SPEAKER_02
He calls John Langrad at FX and pitches your version to him.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I mean, Warren and I had made my generation together.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I can t stress enough, if there s anyone listening to this who s looking for advice, find a mentor.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s great advice.
3
SPEAKER_00
I have many of them.
3
SPEAKER_00
And just as a slight digression, I always offer to anyone who writes for me,
3
SPEAKER_00
I always say, you re in the family now, call me anytime, no one ever calls me.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s so strange.
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, I can speak for them.
3
SPEAKER_02
I have had the hardest time in my life availing myself to advice and mentorship because I m so panicked that I don t belong here that to ask you for help would be to acknowledge that.
3
SPEAKER_02
This last year, I found myself calling two people for advice and at 48, that was the first time.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, get out of your own way, man.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean, you know what I m saying?
3
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I m pushy that way, I guess.
3
SPEAKER_02
All I m saying is I don t think it actually comes from arrogance.
3
SPEAKER_02
I think it comes from... No, no, I don t think it comes from arrogance at all.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think people either get overwhelmed or they don t take me seriously.
3
SPEAKER_00
They think I m just being nice.
3
SPEAKER_00
They don t want to put you out.
3
SPEAKER_00
They re codependent, maybe.
3
SPEAKER_00
But if someone offers me, you know, you re going to hear from me.
3
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And even now, I tracked down David Fincher a couple of years ago because I thought, oh, he could answer this question for me.
3
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And we d shared a DP, Eric Messerschmidt.
3
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I was like, can you put me in touch with him?
3
SPEAKER_00
And then David was the nicest guy.
3
SPEAKER_00
Now I keep in touch with him and if I have a question or just want to see him.
3
SPEAKER_00
Mentorship is such a critical part of understanding.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I had Warren Littlefield, former NBC president, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
And I had a writer named Bob DeLaurentis.
3
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So if I want to understand what the network s thinking.
3
SPEAKER_00
I can ask both of those guys and they ve seen it from opposite sides of the table.
3
SPEAKER_00
But yes, Warren is the nicest guy who, if you need him to go full New Jersey, he will go full New Jersey.
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, and he, by the way, full circle payoff, he proves the opposite of what we were suggesting that you have to be an asshole to be enormously effective and successful.
3
SPEAKER_02
He s like David Carradine in fucking Kung Fu.
3
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This sweet man is going to take my hand and walk me across the finish line.
3
SPEAKER_02
How is this going to unfold?
3
SPEAKER_00
I know, but he s so savvy.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve learned a lot from him.
3
SPEAKER_00
So much of what my job is just creative problem solving, whether it s on the page or in a production.
3
SPEAKER_00
And Warren and I are similar.
3
SPEAKER_00
Rarely is the answer to yell.
3
SPEAKER_00
But if the answer is to yell, who should yell?
3
SPEAKER_00
Should Warren yell?
3
SPEAKER_00
Or should I yell?
3
SPEAKER_00
If I yell, it means something different.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so
3
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the more you can be unemotional, even if it s emotional for you, but to look at it strategically.
3
SPEAKER_00
And he was such a great mentor for that.
3
SPEAKER_00
Where he s like, okay, calm down.
3
SPEAKER_00
We re not going to do that.
3
SPEAKER_00
Here s what we can do that s going to be effective.
3
SPEAKER_01
So you don t really have trouble, even though you were around a lot of stories of women being abused, basically, you don t really have a problem with
4
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t sound like trusting men.
4
SPEAKER_01
No, I m not alpha in that way.
4
SPEAKER_01
Although what I always found was that alpha is not really alpha.
4
SPEAKER_00
Go on.
4
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This is a topic Monica and I talk about a lot.
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, you know, it s an interesting thing about leadership, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
Is that the loudest guy isn t necessarily the leader in the room.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I was never the pushiest.
4
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I was just always going to do my thing.
4
SPEAKER_01
And it was part of the twin thing also, right, is that my mom did an interview with us when we were five, because she was a writer, and so she taped us.
4
SPEAKER_01
And my brother was on there saying, he s going to be better than me at everything.
4
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And whatever I do, he s going to follow me around, he s going to be better than me at everything.
4
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And I was just saying at five years old, I was like, well, I just want to do my thing.
4
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You know, I just want to be good at what I m good at.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I ve had that.
4
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mindset ever since really, which is I m just going to do my thing.
4
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And it s amazing if you look like you know what you re doing, how people just kind of fall in.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s kind of the George Washington approach.
4
SPEAKER_00
Say less and just keep marching and people will slowly go, Oh, this one s not full of shit.
4
SPEAKER_00
Let s hop behind.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and it s leadership the right way, which is there s no insecurity to it.
4
SPEAKER_01
So many bosses, they have that imposter syndrome and they tend to take it out on people because they don t feel like they deserve what they ve got or that their ideas are great, but they re in a position of power.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I just feel like to have a healthy sense of yourself and respect for others is the best way to lead.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s portrayed always as the like hyper-masculine chest pounding, but I don t think that s what an alpha is.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
I always like to confuse my peers in Hollywood by reaching out to them.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, like when Ryan Murphy and I started competing in the awards in the same category, we were both at FX.
4
SPEAKER_01
I called him up and said, let s have lunch.
4
SPEAKER_01
And he seemed very confused by that.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
4
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What s my angle?
4
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I reached out to Sonny who does beef.
4
SPEAKER_01
I love the show.
4
SPEAKER_01
Good luck.
4
SPEAKER_01
And people are so grateful to have a human moment.
4
SPEAKER_00
Also, and I say this often, of all the different roles in Hollywood, I think the one that really deserves the very most respect is showrunner.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think it s the hardest, most all-encompassing.
4
SPEAKER_00
You need so many different skill sets.
4
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I think it s so impressive when people do it successfully.
4
SPEAKER_00
And of course you should all be friends, because no one else really knows what you re going through.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s so much solidarity there, I d imagine, once you break through that awkward work competitor s phony facade.
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, and it s such a complicated word that it s almost meaningless to people.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, when you say showrunner, one of the things that I don t like about it is there s no art in that word.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_00
It sounds very managerial.
4
SPEAKER_01
It feels like the guy at the air traffic control versus the artistry of the writing and the filmmaking, et cetera.
4
SPEAKER_01
But especially the bigger showrunners, every time you go into production, you re the CEO of a $70 million production, $100 million, $150 million production.
4
SPEAKER_01
If you re Greg Berlanti or Ryan Murphy,
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, you re talking about a billion dollars of capital that you re managing for these companies.
4
SPEAKER_01
And as a result, you have relationships with the Ted Sarandos s or the Zaslov s or Eiger in a way that sort of transcends, I make a television show and you can use that power to elevate other voices and all those things.
4
SPEAKER_01
But the collective sense when I was at ABC studios and we re doing my generation, I had offices in the old animation building.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I had come from this collective of writers and filmmakers.
4
SPEAKER_01
And in the old animation building, nobody talked to each other.
4
SPEAKER_01
You pass people in the hall, they didn t really look you in the eye.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I thought, if we all collaborated, we could take over the studio.
4
SPEAKER_01
So maybe that s on purpose, I guess.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, perhaps.
4
SPEAKER_00
Okay, let s talk about directing.
4
SPEAKER_00
What s the first time you direct?
4
SPEAKER_00
Is it on Fargo?
4
SPEAKER_01
No, I did a short film when I first was working down here.
4
SPEAKER_01
Fox Searchlight had a program called Search Lab.
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t know if it ran more than a year or two.
4
SPEAKER_01
Peter Rice was in charge of Searchlight at the time and it was basically a new director development program.
4
SPEAKER_01
A sort of cheap way to give a little bit of money to some directors and see if they did something interesting.
4
SPEAKER_01
And so I made a short film for them, was my first directing.
4
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But then I didn t get behind the camera again until Fargo.
4
SPEAKER_00
I want to applaud you and it s almost maddening, but you direct one and two of season five.
4
SPEAKER_00
The first episode is fucking unreal.
4
SPEAKER_00
The set piece, starting with her exiting the car and going into the gas station, the shot selection and how you re telling the story and what piece we see, it s fucking really annoyingly masterful.
4
SPEAKER_00
I hope you re so proud.
4
SPEAKER_01
I am very, very proud of it and on some level also proud of the decisions that we made that made it possible to shoot that in four days or whatever it was.
4
SPEAKER_01
We found an airstrip that had been abandoned.
4
SPEAKER_01
We built the gas station.
4
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We created a controllable situation.
4
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I don t storyboard everything to death, but I did map out where the camera move should be.
4
SPEAKER_01
And one of the things I m proudest of is the simul action, because sometimes you don t have the shot where you re like, well, she s going into the bathroom, but I have the shot where Lamorne slides down.
4
SPEAKER_01
But then in the background, you see her going into the room and then we can connect those shots, which is the Coen brothers.
4
SPEAKER_01
They re super economical.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God, is it good.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s so, so impressive.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, I was heading into set the third morning and I was able to sort of quickly cut some stuff together.
4
SPEAKER_01
And there s a moment in the sequence now where she runs in and she stops because she sees this Bisquick on the shelf.
4
SPEAKER_01
And that wasn t in the script.
4
SPEAKER_01
And so on that third morning, I called my AD and I was like, I need boxes of Bisquick.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then I need these newspaper inserts that say the most important meal of the day.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_01
So the art department s scrambling.
4
SPEAKER_01
We re in production.
4
SPEAKER_00
We re like, we re going to have those by 3 p.m.
4
SPEAKER_00
This is film and TV making.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like you have this enormous machine and quite often you re waiting for a piece of paper.
4
SPEAKER_01
Right.
4
SPEAKER_01
What I realized while I was making it was it wasn t emotional yet.
4
SPEAKER_01
Like we needed that piece that was really going to make it emotional for the audience, which I think elevated beyond just bullets flying.
4
SPEAKER_00
Right.
4
SPEAKER_00
This is going to be an esoteric question that ll bore everyone.
4
SPEAKER_00
But when you re writing, you know, you re going to direct the thing.
4
SPEAKER_00
Do you find that you get incredibly detailed about each step?
4
SPEAKER_00
How are you managing what s on the page and what you end up going to shoot?
4
SPEAKER_01
I write it so you can see it.
4
SPEAKER_01
Rather than just saying in action lines the action, it will say close up on, it will say angle on, it specifies visually the story.
4
SPEAKER_01
Well now we re looking at the object on the table and now we re looking at her looking at the object on the table and
4
SPEAKER_01
I do that for a couple of reasons.
4
SPEAKER_01
One, I just think as you re reading it, you re really seeing it.
4
SPEAKER_01
And the other thing is I don t direct all of them.
4
SPEAKER_01
And when I hand you a script and it says close up here, probably you should get a close up here.
4
SPEAKER_00
Are you watching stuff in that same way?
4
SPEAKER_00
I guess I find that writing s the thing that ll take me out more than any probably other piece.
4
SPEAKER_01
If they start breaking their own rules.
4
SPEAKER_01
You certainly need a character logic and a big part of Fargo, right, is it says it s a true story.
4
SPEAKER_01
And so we can avail ourselves to coincidence and randomness and elements like that that don t always fall into fictional stories that you watch.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, the UFO is an example of the deus ex machina that you would be like, really?
4
SPEAKER_01
if it was just a fictional show, but that s what happened, guys.
4
SPEAKER_00
And people might not even know the genesis of this that the Coen brothers realized at some point.
4
SPEAKER_00
You can write this is a true story, but it doesn t have to be that that was like some kind of weird breakthrough creatively.
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, and I ve had so
4
SPEAKER_01
many conversations with FX and MGM Legal about so many things, but they have never once said, you can t say something s true when it s not.
4
SPEAKER_01
So that seemed like the most obvious premise to contest.
4
SPEAKER_00
Now, because the show, each season is completely different.
4
SPEAKER_00
You re basically launching a new television show every year.
4
SPEAKER_00
You re introducing all new characters.
4
SPEAKER_00
Nothing is a given.
4
SPEAKER_00
Everything has to be earned all over again.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s literally five different television shows thus far in one.
4
SPEAKER_00
Correct.
4
SPEAKER_00
So that is daunting in the odds of success are low.
4
SPEAKER_00
If you created 20 shows, if you are a fucking Babe Ruth, four of them might run a few seasons.
4
SPEAKER_00
Right.
4
SPEAKER_00
that you have to do it anew every time is incredible, but at the same time, maybe liberating.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m curious to keep everything fresh and novel and to keep you inspired to write.
4
SPEAKER_00
What are the pros and cons of this?
4
SPEAKER_01
What you re really trying to create is a state of mind.
4
SPEAKER_01
And it s a fascinating elastic thing.
4
SPEAKER_01
When I first went into pitch FX, my version of Fargo, I said, why is the movie called Fargo?
4
SPEAKER_01
It takes place in Minnesota.
4
SPEAKER_01
except that the word Fargo is so evocative of a place, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
What Joel and Ethan called Siberia with family restaurants.
4
SPEAKER_01
And after the movie, it now has come to mean a type of true crime story that isn t true where truth is stranger than fiction.
4
SPEAKER_01
And so that state of mind, the word Fargo has come to have this expansive meaning.
4
SPEAKER_01
And my job is just to really sort of say, okay, well, if in year one, it can be a kind of one-to-one
4
SPEAKER_01
car salesman, insurance salesman, where it kills the wife, not kidnap the, you know, with a kind of Marge Gunderson parallel.
4
SPEAKER_01
All right, it can be that, but in season two, can it be this 1979 crime epic about the death of the family business and the rise of corporate America?
4
SPEAKER_01
Or in season three, can it be this kind of like rivalry story of these two brothers that also, through David Thewlis s
5
SPEAKER_00
explores sort of the post-corporate billionaire status.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then of course in the fourth year, 1950, really a story about assimilation and what it means to be an American.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, every time it just feels like, what makes it Fargo?
5
SPEAKER_00
Other than a sort of tone of voice, the fact that there s always a crime, the fact that it s always basically decent people against cynicism and corruption.
5
SPEAKER_00
But it is liberating because the beats that you need, the decency, the catharsis of the ending, you re like, I need to get there.
5
SPEAKER_00
I don t know how I m going to get there this time.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
I heard you say that this show couldn t have ever been a multi-season show in that the big happy ending at the end of Fargo the movie is life will return to normal.
5
SPEAKER_01
Sanity will resume.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so in that way, it s almost intrinsically precludes you from having a second season.
5
SPEAKER_01
But it did cross my mind while I was researching, has it ever been talked about that you could actually bounce back and almost do second seasons of previous seasons?
5
SPEAKER_00
I did talk to FX at one point.
5
SPEAKER_00
I was like, does it have to be 10 hours?
5
SPEAKER_00
Because I could do two hours with Billy.
5
SPEAKER_00
I could see revisiting that character, but I don t think we want to build a whole thing about it.
5
SPEAKER_00
And FX, they just don t want to be in the movie business.
5
SPEAKER_00
You know, and Warren Littlefield did say to me as we were coming out of our second season, Patrick Wilson is so amazing in it.
5
SPEAKER_00
He s like, the Lou Salverson show, we got to do it.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, I know, but then it s not Fargo.
5
SPEAKER_00
Then it s not a true story.
5
SPEAKER_00
Now it breaks that wall.
5
SPEAKER_00
So as much as I would love to watch that show or maybe even make that show, I couldn t do it and be consistent with the mindset.
5
SPEAKER_01
I was making a movie called The Judge and Billy Bob was leaving that movie to start Fargo.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
And he s like, you know, I got to go up to, um, wherever the hell you guys shot.
5
SPEAKER_01
Calgary.
5
SPEAKER_01
He s like, oh yeah, I m going to be up there for it.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, what are you doing?
5
SPEAKER_01
He s like Fargo.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, hmm.
5
SPEAKER_01
Back to your, this is a terrible idea.
5
SPEAKER_01
I was like, well, I guess you re a great start.
5
SPEAKER_01
The fact that they ve reached out to you legitimized us for sure.
5
SPEAKER_01
A thousand percent.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, that first scene between he and Colin Hanks where he s talking to him in a way that only Billy Bob can talk to somebody.
5
SPEAKER_00
Billy was such a get for us, and I had written that first script, went to meet with him, and he had called Joel and Ethan and said, is this real?
5
SPEAKER_00
Is this bullshit?
5
SPEAKER_00
And I offered to talk him through the story, the season.
5
SPEAKER_00
He s like, no, I don t need that.
5
SPEAKER_00
Proof s on the page.
5
SPEAKER_00
And they re in, so I m in.
5
SPEAKER_00
That really went a long way, because obviously, if he s going to do it, clearly, qualitatively, we must be in the running with the Coens.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_01
This is a totally sidebar.
5
SPEAKER_01
My daughters are nine and 10.
5
SPEAKER_01
The 10 year old just recently, I was watching like grand Budapest on a family vacation.
5
SPEAKER_01
And she sat down next to me and she was like, why is this so weird?
5
SPEAKER_01
And I go, Oh, well, Wes Anderson, he s got these elaborate sets and there s these big winners.
5
SPEAKER_01
No, I m sorry, explain to her the mechanics of what makes Wes Anderson, Wes Anderson.
5
SPEAKER_01
So she got totally infected by it.
5
SPEAKER_01
We ended up watching like seven Wes Anderson movies together.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then we were sitting around at dinner not too long ago and she said, so Wes Anderson s the best director?
5
SPEAKER_01
And I said, he is a fantastic director, but if we re talking best for me, it s probably Coen Brothers and Quentin.
5
SPEAKER_01
And mom starts saying these things.
5
SPEAKER_01
And she s like, Coen Brothers.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, what could I watch with them?
5
SPEAKER_01
And so last week we all as a family watched Raising Arizona.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I can t explain to you my elation of watching them feel the same thing I felt.
5
SPEAKER_01
Because I think I saw it at probably 12.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, what s going on in this movie?
5
SPEAKER_01
Why does it look like this?
5
SPEAKER_01
Why is it so interesting?
5
SPEAKER_01
But so those two, I mean, I got to say, I ve gotten auditions for them a few times, which was so rewarding.
5
SPEAKER_01
But the privilege of getting to be able to pick up the phone and call them, I imagine, is lovely.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you know, I like to say that I have a low resting heart rate, but those guys, it s amazing.
5
SPEAKER_00
Does it fuck with you?
5
SPEAKER_00
Like give me some enthusiasm.
5
SPEAKER_00
I haven t had a lot of interactions with them, but you know, I ve had a couple of good meals.
5
SPEAKER_00
I went by the place in Tribeca, they were editing whatever it was and they ll say like, you re still making that thing, you know, they re not precious.
5
SPEAKER_00
I ve also had like the world s most uncomfortable breakfast with them where it s like,
5
SPEAKER_00
They re not talking.
5
SPEAKER_00
Because they don t need to, they re just fine.
5
SPEAKER_00
They say all their words on the screen.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I just feel like I m abusing my access.
5
SPEAKER_00
They hate me in this moment, you know.
5
SPEAKER_00
This last time I did send Joel an email and I said, I hear you need a new pool, so I m gonna make another Fargo.
5
SPEAKER_00
They re great.
5
SPEAKER_00
The first time I met them in person, at the very end of the meal, I said, you know, would it be okay if I called you to talk about how you guys make a movie?
5
SPEAKER_00
And they looked so horrified at that.
5
SPEAKER_00
I never followed up.
5
SPEAKER_00
I never bothered, you know.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s almost better for your own personal narrative because you ultimately did this on your own.
5
SPEAKER_01
They could have held your hand and guided you through it.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then the reward of that would have been diminished.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, it s such a privilege.
5
SPEAKER_00
If you think about the level of trust and the fact that they read that first script and they watched that first episode and they said, we hate imitation.
5
SPEAKER_00
But it felt like you were channeling us.
5
SPEAKER_00
They got excited.
5
SPEAKER_00
They engaged with the script, that motel scene, the do you have pets scene.
5
SPEAKER_00
They sent me a punch up, added some stuff, which was super exciting.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, to receive pages that you re going to incorporate into your script from the Coen brothers is one of those few moments in life.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it was thrilling.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then I don t know if they ve ever watched another episode.
5
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_00
Right, right.
5
SPEAKER_00
Who would know?
5
SPEAKER_01
But on some level, that could be good, right?
5
SPEAKER_01
I imagine we re all projecting a lot of preciousness about that movie that they actually don t have.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
I bet some part of them is like, yeah, go ahead.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, I ve also had the thought because, you know, every time we launch one, we would usually do a premiere event in New York and I would always go and there s bus ads and subway ads.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, how weird must it be for them, this movie they made in the 80s, to see a more marketing than that movie ever got, you know, 40 years later.
5
SPEAKER_00
I hope it feels cool for them.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m sure it does.
5
SPEAKER_00
It has to.
5
SPEAKER_00
They re still relevant.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
5
SPEAKER_01
How do you decide?
5
SPEAKER_01
So I don t know if every season, but certainly several of the seasons have some sprinkle of sci-fi supernatural other worldly.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I personally don t love sci-fi, which breaks my heart.
5
SPEAKER_01
Cause I m so into your writing and what you do, and I m wanting to become obsessed with Legion.
5
SPEAKER_01
And it s just a little out of my space, but right with all that said to me, it s the most perfect sprinkling of it.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s very palatable to me.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s just enough that I kind of dig it.
5
SPEAKER_01
I love that the Swede might ve been alive for the last 300 years.
5
SPEAKER_01
I don t know if that was the intention of that flashback, but it seems to me he s been alive for a few hundred years and I m like, I m in one character.
5
SPEAKER_01
Give it to me.
5
SPEAKER_01
This guy somehow warlock.
5
SPEAKER_01
I love it.
5
SPEAKER_01
Are you inclined to add more of it or less of it?
5
SPEAKER_01
Like how do you figure out what percentage will have that magic in it?
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it kind of depends, but when I look at the Coen s work, I see a lot of these characters that I describe as sort of elemental, where you feel like maybe they ve always been out there, whether it s Anton Chigurh or the Lone Biker of the Apocalypse from Raising Arizona.
5
SPEAKER_00
The Warthog from Hell.
5
SPEAKER_01
particularly cruel to the littler things.
5
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
5
SPEAKER_00
Even the start of A Serious Man, which starts in the shtetl and it s the D-book and the whole Schrodinger s cat thing about is he alive or is he dead.
5
SPEAKER_00
So the first year with Billy Bob s character, I just had this feeling, I think maybe not literally him, but whatever he is, has always been blowing through the American landscape.
5
SPEAKER_00
He represents uncivility.
5
SPEAKER_00
And sort of similar thought about David Thewlis in season three.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, he s this sort of Faustian character who comes in and tempts you and it doesn t manifest in season three in any real way other than it feels like part of it to me.
5
SPEAKER_00
Obviously the UFO element in the second season, the Coens made that movie with Billy, the man who wasn t there, and there s a UFO in that.
5
SPEAKER_00
And for me, that came out of, all right, it s 1979.
5
SPEAKER_00
We ve had Watergate.
5
SPEAKER_00
We ve had all these assassinations.
5
SPEAKER_00
The conspiracy really does go all the way to the top.
5
SPEAKER_00
You know, watch the sky.
5
SPEAKER_00
American citizens had become so distrustful and the conspiracies were real.
5
SPEAKER_00
So there was that sense
5
SPEAKER_00
I did find a late seventies state trooper from that region who says he saw a UFO.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it just felt like we could get away with it.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then the Swede now, you know, and you ll see he s very much involved in the end game of the show this season.
5
SPEAKER_00
This idea of sin eating that was introduced in his story, which is, God bless the rich, they re always looking for a loophole.
5
SPEAKER_00
So it used to be that, you know, if you re a rich man who sinned, that on your deathbed, you could give a guy two coins and he would eat food from your body and drink the wine.
5
SPEAKER_00
Then your sins would pass on to him and you would go to heaven and he would go to hell.
5
SPEAKER_00
There is that idea baked into it, which again, this season is very much about debt, both financial debt, but also the things we owe to each other.
5
SPEAKER_00
And Munch has a very kind of biblical sense of eye for eye.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so all those elements, the sort of old world elements, it does feel very Coen to me.
5
SPEAKER_01
Roy Tillman, this is my favorite role I ve seen Jon Hamm in other than Mad Men.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m so fucking into the way he did every single thing.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s hugely impressive.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m curious how you again, it s a percentages thing.
5
SPEAKER_01
Do you clearly have your own politics?
6
SPEAKER_01
You have your own assessment of the world.
6
SPEAKER_01
You might have views on the billionaires and this and that and debt collectors.
6
SPEAKER_01
But the salient observation of this whole season that I love so much was Lorraine, the mom, is having a showdown with Roy Taylor.
6
SPEAKER_01
And this is great because this is like the most powerful woman we ve seen.
6
SPEAKER_01
She takes no shit.
6
SPEAKER_01
This guy takes no shit.
6
SPEAKER_01
He s a fucking misogynist.
6
SPEAKER_01
What s going to happen in her line.
6
SPEAKER_01
And to me, this is a real sendup of the libertarian perspective, which is like, so you want all the freedom and none of the responsibility.
6
SPEAKER_01
So you want to be a baby.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, oh my God, that just fucking gut punch.
6
SPEAKER_00
There s something so truthful about that.
6
SPEAKER_00
Not only does he want to be a baby, he s fighting for his right to be a baby.
6
SPEAKER_01
He s fighting for his right to be a baby.
6
SPEAKER_01
Obviously, you don t want to deny your own point of view, and you also don t want to be heavy handed.
6
SPEAKER_01
Or is it even conscious when you decide how much of your own stances you re going to let in?
6
SPEAKER_00
No, let s call a thing what it is, really.
6
SPEAKER_00
In my mind, in writing this season,
6
SPEAKER_00
I feel like everyone on the screen is a Republican.
6
SPEAKER_00
That was sort of what I was going into it with, which was like, I don t want to have a political conversation, but I want to talk about responsibility that we have to each other in a society.
6
SPEAKER_00
This idea of Minnesota nice, which is the comic conceit of the movie Fargo, which is that when people have to be forced to be nice and that all they re going to be is nice, they don t know how to let off steam and they just kind of break at a certain point.
6
SPEAKER_00
the passive aggression of it.
6
SPEAKER_00
But of course, in our modern moment, there s nothing passive going on.
6
SPEAKER_00
And that s why the season starts with a melee at a school board meeting.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s like people have stopped being nice.
6
SPEAKER_00
I sort of wanted to look at Lorraine 10 years ago.
6
SPEAKER_00
She would have been the villain as the Koch brother, capitalist Republican.
6
SPEAKER_00
But then now we have this other thing we call Republican, which is this sort of alt-right, gun-toting, Bible-pumping.
6
SPEAKER_00
He s a sovereign citizen.
6
SPEAKER_01
I reject everything.
6
SPEAKER_00
And so it s interesting to put those two in conflict because on some level they re on the same side.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
One s only relatively better than the other.
6
SPEAKER_00
Lorraine jokes, she s like, are you here to raise money for the new roof for the orphanage or whatever?
6
SPEAKER_00
And he s like, I m the fight the orphans for sport kind of guy.
6
SPEAKER_00
So neither of them like the orphans, you know, neither of them.
6
SPEAKER_00
Believe in handouts to people.
6
SPEAKER_00
But she s saying, all right, but I mean, you just want to be a baby.
6
SPEAKER_00
I feel I have a responsibility to keep civilization intact.
6
SPEAKER_00
And yeah, I m going to get rich doing it, but I don t think we should all just do what we want all the time.
6
SPEAKER_00
It is, it s this crazy Tiger King Christianity that is just sort of inherently contradictory, it seems.
6
SPEAKER_00
Fargo says it s a true story, but what is a true story?
6
SPEAKER_00
It s either a story or it s true, right, on some level.
6
SPEAKER_00
And starting in season three, where I really wanted to kind of deconstruct that idea, coincided perfectly with the rise of this alternative facts.
6
SPEAKER_00
mindset in America.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I ll never forget watching Newt Gingrich during the 2016 convention saying like, well, crime is up all over the nation.
6
SPEAKER_00
And the news anchor was like, well, actually it s down.
6
SPEAKER_00
He s like, well, people feel like it s up.
6
SPEAKER_00
And that s a fact.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s also a fact, right?
6
SPEAKER_00
And that idea that your feelings are facts, just like my facts are facts, it would be funny if it weren t so crazy.
6
SPEAKER_00
And what is that if not Kafka or the Coen brothers?
6
SPEAKER_00
So it s not politics in my mind.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s just, you can t not talk about it if you re going to make a Coen brothers movie about that region and crime and sheriffs and all that.
6
SPEAKER_00
Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think this would be helpful.
6
SPEAKER_01
Talk about mentoring.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think the more we re honest about the kind of struggle, therein lies the actual advice.
6
SPEAKER_01
You have no advice to give when you re talking about how great the show is.
6
SPEAKER_01
You wrote season five.
6
SPEAKER_01
I can t learn much from that.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like, okay, be great.
6
SPEAKER_01
But you ve had a ton of setbacks too.
6
SPEAKER_01
You ve written features that were going that didn t materialize, right?
6
SPEAKER_01
Some big ones.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I wonder what is your strategy
6
SPEAKER_01
for navigating the many, many heartbreaks that go on?
6
SPEAKER_01
Because if you just have a perfunctory knowledge of you, you re like, oh, everything s been a home run.
6
SPEAKER_01
But in fact, it hasn t.
6
SPEAKER_01
You ve probably had as much heartbreak as success.
6
SPEAKER_01
And how do you navigate that?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I was going to make a Star Trek movie with Cate Blanchett.
6
SPEAKER_01
Right.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, and Rami Malek.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m thinking of that.
6
SPEAKER_00
Could have had that.
6
SPEAKER_00
Right.
6
SPEAKER_00
America.
6
SPEAKER_00
How do you let that go?
6
SPEAKER_00
The best advice I can give you is don t take it personally.
6
SPEAKER_00
Someone doesn t like your script, it s not you.
6
SPEAKER_00
They re not saying they don t like you.
6
SPEAKER_00
Someone doesn t make your pilot, someone doesn t greenlight your film, or they release your film but they don t promote it, etc, etc.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, yeah, I ve had a ton of frustration and setbacks and when My Generation was cancelled, when a show is cancelled after its second
6
SPEAKER_00
Episode airs and you re still shooting.
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh, how s morale on set on that day?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it was interesting because I had talked to go back to Warren Littlefield to him about it and there is this sense of so Napoleon on the battlefield the Emperor of France next day.
6
SPEAKER_00
He s on an island nothing to do
6
SPEAKER_00
To go from being emperor of France to nothing to do, that is a very weird day, right?
6
SPEAKER_00
Because your adrenaline, your energy level, the amount of multitasking that you re in the middle of.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s cocaine, let s be honest.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then suddenly to pull that plug and to be home going, well, what am I going to do next?
6
SPEAKER_00
And your identity.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it can be very disconcerting and undermining of your sense of confidence, your sense of self.
6
SPEAKER_00
What Fargo has afforded me is a sense of arrival and security.
6
SPEAKER_00
You know, even if the Star Trek movie doesn t go or a film I wrote doesn t do well, I m not in danger of falling back down to the bottom.
6
SPEAKER_01
Right, right, right.
6
SPEAKER_00
You ve internalized that.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s less impactful in that way.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I also, as I said, what else can I get away with?
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, Fox Searchlight made Lucy in the Sky.
6
SPEAKER_00
It didn t do well for them.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s going to exist forever.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s the movie that I wanted it to be.
6
SPEAKER_00
So ha ha, at the end of the day.
6
SPEAKER_01
I had a friend say to me, go back to the playground and talk to fifth grade Dax and tell him you directed a movie at Warner Brothers with motorcycles and car chases.
6
SPEAKER_01
Do you think he s going to ask, what did it do at the box office?
6
SPEAKER_01
Focus on what the fifth grader would be like, what the fuck?
6
SPEAKER_01
Really would grow up and do that?
6
SPEAKER_01
I ve sold two shows to FX.
6
SPEAKER_01
Neither of them have been made.
6
SPEAKER_01
I ve sold six features to studios.
6
SPEAKER_01
Only one of them has been made.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I think there s an impulse and you finally, cause it s impossible to sell something.
6
SPEAKER_01
Then you sell it.
6
SPEAKER_01
And then as you re watching it lose traction, your instinct is to fight harder and figure out how to make that.
6
SPEAKER_01
And certainly there are success stories where people, they followed it for 10 years to the end and it was great.
6
SPEAKER_01
But I think the more you can go like, then let s write the next thing.
6
SPEAKER_01
Then let s write the next thing.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I have two things to say to that.
6
SPEAKER_00
One is, you know, I used to joke that there s a proud tradition in Hollywood of failing up and I want in.
6
SPEAKER_00
Because it s like, there s worse things than having written the best pilot that didn t get made, right?
6
SPEAKER_00
People know.
6
SPEAKER_00
Or making the best pilot that didn t get picked up to series.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s a ladder.
6
SPEAKER_00
Every step that you climb on, even if it ends in failure, quote unquote, you re still up or wrong.
6
SPEAKER_00
So I think that that is really important.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then I forgot the other thing I was gonna say.
6
SPEAKER_01
Right.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I just think it s easy to get married to stuff.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I think the quicker and this.
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh, well, that s the other thing, which is, I remember a writer said to me once, I just want to have published a book.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, well, that s a past tense goal.
6
SPEAKER_00
You can t want to have done something.
6
SPEAKER_00
It has to be, what am I doing today?
6
SPEAKER_00
And that s always the thing for me is that I love the creative process so much that every morning I get up and it s like, what am I working on today?
6
SPEAKER_00
What am I thinking about today?
6
SPEAKER_00
And it s so helpful.
6
SPEAKER_00
You know, if you ve written a script and you ve sent it out and you re waiting on a read, if you can be working on something else, it s so much less stressful.
6
SPEAKER_00
As long as you re engaged in the art, you re always feeling good.
6
SPEAKER_00
Even at the end of the day, if it was a struggle, you didn t get that many pages today, but you were in it.
6
SPEAKER_00
The more you can live in process.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
Have you befriended Stephen Conrad by chance?
6
SPEAKER_01
I ve met him.
6
SPEAKER_01
You guys have a very similar thing happening.
6
SPEAKER_01
The musician, the writing, the directing.
6
SPEAKER_01
He s a funny guy, I like him.
6
SPEAKER_01
Did you see the... Patriot?
6
SPEAKER_01
The Patriot?
6
SPEAKER_01
I did, yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
Whoa, what a fucking show.
6
SPEAKER_00
I really liked it.
6
SPEAKER_00
There s a thing that we re thinking about collaborating on, actually.
6
SPEAKER_00
You Zoom with him, it s in a room full of guitars.
6
SPEAKER_00
He s authentic, man.
6
SPEAKER_00
Talk about a low resting heart rate, you cannot agitate that guy.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s good.
6
SPEAKER_00
To be a calm presence is a good thing.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it can bring down the temperature all around you.
6
SPEAKER_01
Well, this has been awesome.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m so glad you squoze us in.
6
SPEAKER_01
We were told you re flying off somewhere.
6
SPEAKER_01
Are you going home?
6
SPEAKER_00
I was going to fly back today, but ice storms in Texas, they don t know how to de-ice a runway.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t think so.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m going to wait till tomorrow.
6
SPEAKER_00
I think we ll have a nice lunch.
6
SPEAKER_01
We ll take it easy today.
6
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
6
SPEAKER_01
Wonderful.
6
SPEAKER_01
Anyone who s not watching season five of Fargo, you re missing the boat.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I ll add.
6
SPEAKER_01
You do not need to have seen any of the other Fargos.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s how it works.
6
SPEAKER_01
This could be the first season you ever saw.
6
SPEAKER_00
But also go back and watch all the Fargos because they re all amazing.
6
SPEAKER_01
But in any order.
6
SPEAKER_01
Start anywhere.
6
SPEAKER_01
Inevitably, if you watch season five, you will be going back.
6
SPEAKER_01
I rest assured that ll happen.
6
SPEAKER_01
So awesome to get to meet you.
6
SPEAKER_01
You too.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m very grateful you re making shit because it s amusing me to no end.
6
SPEAKER_01
I ll keep going.
6
SPEAKER_01
You keep
7
SPEAKER_00
Keep trying Legion, I think it ll hook you.
7
SPEAKER_00
My wife and I last night were like, okay.
7
SPEAKER_00
A, we re just maddened with the wait for the next episode.
7
SPEAKER_00
And yeah, when I was researching you, I was like, we need to give Legion another crack.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s not a two device show.
7
SPEAKER_01
You kind of got to.
7
SPEAKER_01
be in it.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s surreal and comedic in that way, but also I try to make things that you want to rewatch.
7
SPEAKER_01
And if you can surprise people, if you do something unexpected, they put down the other device because so much that we watch these days, you re on your phone, you re going, well, he s the killer.
7
SPEAKER_01
And you know what I mean?
7
SPEAKER_01
Like, you know, we re so sophisticated.
7
SPEAKER_01
I mean, my son s 11 and he games and watches Bob s Burgers at the same time, right?
7
SPEAKER_01
He listens to an audio book and reads a graphic novel at the same time.
7
SPEAKER_02
That makes my brain want to explode.
7
SPEAKER_00
Well, you know, there s this great book, The Weirdest People on Earth, Joseph Henry.
7
SPEAKER_00
And it talks about how physiologically learning to read changed the structure of our brain.
7
SPEAKER_00
Permanently, if you re in the West, we ve relegated areas of our brains that used to pick up on other things to reading.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s abstract and complex.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I have to imagine similarly, like your son, other people, I couldn t do that.
7
SPEAKER_00
I can t even listen to fucking music and read a book.
7
SPEAKER_00
I can t listen to music and do my research.
7
SPEAKER_00
I gotta have tunnel vision or I m out to sea.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I do imagine the structure of the brain is gonna keep up with this weird.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I mean, I talked to a psychiatrist who said ADD is actually the best version of your brain for the modern world.
7
SPEAKER_01
The ability to multitask, there s that great line in that last Ghostbusters movie, overstimulation calms me.
7
SPEAKER_00
And that s my son, right?
7
SPEAKER_01
It s like he goes crazy when there s not enough stimulation.
7
SPEAKER_01
Now his underwear is all over the place and you got to be able to executive function, but he s actually great at learning quickly, multiple sources coming at him at the same time.
7
SPEAKER_01
And that s the world we live in.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
7
SPEAKER_00
Well, Noah, what a pleasure to meet you.
7
SPEAKER_00
I hope I bump into you in Austin, my second favorite place on earth.
7
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
Come on down.
7
SPEAKER_00
Do you ever get down there and get in the medicinal waters of Barton Springs?
7
SPEAKER_00
Of course.
7
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I m there every trip.
7
SPEAKER_01
The polar bear plunge on New Year s Day is... Oh, I should trek down for that.
7
SPEAKER_01
You float there and you re just trying to envision the year, what you re going to do, how s it going to go.
7
SPEAKER_01
And yeah, it s important to have those moments.
7
SPEAKER_00
I was there in October and I did my first night swim there.
7
SPEAKER_00
I didn t even realize they were open at night.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, 9 p.m.
7
SPEAKER_01
or something like that.
7
SPEAKER_00
What a magical experience that is.
7
SPEAKER_00
Nighttime at Barton Springs.
7
SPEAKER_00
It is, yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
All right.
7
SPEAKER_00
Be well.
7
SPEAKER_00
Good luck with everything.
7
SPEAKER_00
Everyone watch Fargo.
7
SPEAKER_02
Hi.
7
SPEAKER_00
Hi.
7
SPEAKER_00
Cool sweater.
7
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s striped.
7
SPEAKER_00
Go ahead and say it.
7
SPEAKER_02
No, I m not going to say it this time.
7
SPEAKER_00
Why?
7
SPEAKER_00
I loved when you did that.
7
SPEAKER_02
I know.
7
SPEAKER_02
I know you want, you wanted me to, and I just, I can t repeat like that.
7
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
7
SPEAKER_02
It is from London.
7
SPEAKER_00
London?
7
SPEAKER_02
It kind of has a smell right now.
7
SPEAKER_00
Like, um, gamey wool?
7
SPEAKER_02
No, like it got some aromas on it.
7
SPEAKER_02
Food aromas.
7
SPEAKER_00
Would you take a sweater like that off when you go to the toilet?
7
SPEAKER_02
No.
7
SPEAKER_00
If you re at home?
7
SPEAKER_02
No.
7
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
7
SPEAKER_00
You wouldn t be nervous that it like it would absorb some smell?
7
SPEAKER_02
No, no.
7
SPEAKER_02
I feel like I like cooked a chicken or something and it like got on.
7
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
7
SPEAKER_00
Were you wearing it last night when you cooked bolognese?
7
SPEAKER_02
No, but it was hanging.
7
SPEAKER_02
Oh.
7
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
7
SPEAKER_02
And you got a new sweater.
7
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
7
SPEAKER_00
Look at this fun sweater.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
7
SPEAKER_02
It s very fun.
7
SPEAKER_02
It s very cute.
7
SPEAKER_02
It s, it s loud.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s so loud.
7
SPEAKER_00
George saw it and was like, oh, that s for Dax.
7
SPEAKER_02
Oh, that s really funny.
7
SPEAKER_02
I mean, I love it.
7
SPEAKER_02
I love it on you.
7
SPEAKER_02
I think you should wear it every day.
7
SPEAKER_00
Do you think I look cute in it?
7
SPEAKER_02
I do.
7
SPEAKER_02
I really like it.
7
SPEAKER_02
I would never see it.
7
SPEAKER_00
and think that s Dax.
7
SPEAKER_02
Right.
7
SPEAKER_02
I mean, it s very him.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s very him, but his point was, and I like it, he s like, it s the perfect sweater for you, because it s like cute and playful, but then you have your sleeves up and there s like some scary tattoos coming out.
7
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
7
SPEAKER_00
He s like, it s a fun mix.
7
SPEAKER_02
Because it almost looks like Hello Kitty.
7
SPEAKER_00
Or Mario Brothers.
7
SPEAKER_00
Right.
7
SPEAKER_00
Like, look at the back.
7
SPEAKER_00
has, look at those clouds in the mushroom.
7
SPEAKER_00
There s a teddy bear on front and it says Gucci endorphin.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s an incredible sweater.
7
SPEAKER_00
I would never buy it for myself.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s like one of the craziest out of nowhere gifts.
7
SPEAKER_02
It s beautiful though.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I really like it.
7
SPEAKER_02
I like Playful.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s fun to get new sweaters.
7
SPEAKER_00
You know I like my Babar s sweater, cutesy.
7
SPEAKER_02
Well, I have a story to tell.
7
SPEAKER_00
Okay, great.
7
SPEAKER_02
Since I saw you, since we recorded, I had a middle of the night scare.
7
SPEAKER_02
So I woke up at 3 a.m.
7
SPEAKER_02
and there was a smell in the apartment.
7
SPEAKER_02
Not like the smell that s currently on my sweater.
7
SPEAKER_00
Okay, not Bolognese.
7
SPEAKER_02
A smell that smelled like fire.
7
SPEAKER_02
It was a fire smell.
7
SPEAKER_00
Would you wake up and say, oh Lord, it s a fire.
7
SPEAKER_00
No.
7
SPEAKER_00
Remember that video?
7
SPEAKER_02
No.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s a woman on the news, and she s explaining how her house was on fire.
7
SPEAKER_02
Oh.
7
SPEAKER_00
And she s like, I got up to drink a cold pop, walked into the kitchen, said, oh, Jesus, it s a fire.
7
SPEAKER_02
Oh, I have not heard that.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
She references the Lord six or seven times in this story about her house burning down.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s pretty great.
7
SPEAKER_02
Wow.
7
SPEAKER_02
Well, so then, yeah, I went to the oven.
7
SPEAKER_02
Everything s off.
7
SPEAKER_00
Did you do a candle sweep, sweep for candles?
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, exactly.
7
SPEAKER_02
Nothing.
7
SPEAKER_02
Then I go back, I close my eyes again, but I still smell it.
7
SPEAKER_02
Something s up.
7
SPEAKER_00
Right.
7
SPEAKER_02
Something s up.
7
SPEAKER_00
That always stinks.
7
SPEAKER_02
So then I remember, I have a heater under the floor with the floor grate.
7
SPEAKER_00
Very traditional California bungalow style.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yes, in these old ass apartments, they don t have central cooling or heating.
7
SPEAKER_02
And often what they offer you is for air conditioning, just a box in the wall and for heating, a floor.
7
SPEAKER_00
Fire.
7
SPEAKER_02
Literally, it s just like a pilot light.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s just a fire down there.
7
SPEAKER_00
It heats up a big piece of metal that then radiates heat up.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it s so antiquated.
7
SPEAKER_00
I know, but I will say this.
7
SPEAKER_02
Say what you ll say.
7
SPEAKER_00
Remember when I was living at your house during COVID?
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
You were elsewhere and Erin and I were quarantining.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
And it was March, so it was chilly.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I got to use it.
7
SPEAKER_00
Preferable is central heat, obviously.
7
SPEAKER_00
I do like walking by the source of the heat and being able to feel the heat coming out of there.
7
SPEAKER_00
It feels almost like a fireplace.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, but it just feels like frame it, right?
7
SPEAKER_02
Well, no, because it feels like it s bad for you.
7
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
Like there s carbon monoxide.
7
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s fair.
7
SPEAKER_02
I realized, Oh gosh, it s probably that it s probably dust or something is getting burnt.
7
SPEAKER_02
But then I remembered a couple of weeks before I was doing something in my bathroom.
7
SPEAKER_02
I forget what, like makeup.
7
SPEAKER_02
And I think a cap or something, maybe it was the back of an earring, something small flew off and it went in the grate, I thought.
7
SPEAKER_02
I was like, oh fuck, where d that thing go?
7
SPEAKER_02
I don t see it anywhere.
7
SPEAKER_02
Shit, it maybe went down that grate.
7
SPEAKER_02
Oh well, I can t care about that.
7
SPEAKER_02
But then this fire smell is happening and I think, oh fuck, whatever that was is getting burnt alive.
7
SPEAKER_02
So I go and I look and I see there s a hair tie
7
SPEAKER_02
in there.
7
SPEAKER_02
And I was like, oh, it was a hair tie that flew off and got in there, which is very confusing because the holes are so tiny in this grate.
7
SPEAKER_02
How d that happen?
7
SPEAKER_02
But okay, it s gonna burn.
7
SPEAKER_02
It s gonna cause a huge fire.
7
SPEAKER_02
I have to get this out.
7
SPEAKER_02
This is three in the morning.
7
SPEAKER_00
Oh boy.
7
SPEAKER_02
Um, how am I going to get it out?
7
SPEAKER_00
I can only imagine what you re actually seeing.
7
SPEAKER_00
Cause I know you have terrible vision in high light with a full night s rest.
7
SPEAKER_00
So low light on three hours of sleep, you must ve just been seeing like looking through a bowl of mayonnaise at everything.
7
SPEAKER_02
That is what it felt like because there s two greats and they overlap.
7
SPEAKER_02
And so it s a magic eye when you re looking.
7
SPEAKER_02
It makes you nauseous, distorts everything.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, your eye doesn t know what plane to focus on.
7
SPEAKER_02
So, but I see this hair tie in there and I gotta get it out.
7
SPEAKER_02
And so I m like scouring the apartment for, I remembered I had just got my dry cleaning done.
7
SPEAKER_02
Perfect timing to have those wire hangers.
7
SPEAKER_02
Cause I normally, I don t have wire hangers.
7
SPEAKER_02
But then I remember lady came and she threw them all out.
7
SPEAKER_00
Okay, she knows you, mommy doesn t want those.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, she knows about that.
7
SPEAKER_02
So I m looking for another tall apparatus.
7
SPEAKER_02
I don t have anything.
7
SPEAKER_02
And I go into the coat closet and there is one wire hanger hanging a basket from high up.
7
SPEAKER_00
Perfect.
7
SPEAKER_02
I see it.
7
SPEAKER_02
I get a stool.
7
SPEAKER_00
Shocked you saw it, but you did.
7
SPEAKER_02
Thank God it was a miracle.
7
SPEAKER_02
And I got it down.
7
SPEAKER_02
I unravel it.
7
SPEAKER_02
I make a tiny, like a little hook to grab it.
7
SPEAKER_02
I go, I m sticking it in.
7
SPEAKER_02
It s impossible to see.
7
SPEAKER_02
It is so confusing.
7
SPEAKER_00
And you re not using a flashlight nor your phone to illuminate into the gray.
7
SPEAKER_02
I have the light on.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s not enough.
7
SPEAKER_00
As I recall you have flashlights though.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m recalling that you do.
7
SPEAKER_02
Um, actually Eric got me a flashlight, but I don t Believe in it.
7
SPEAKER_02
I don t think I put that I it s like fancy.
7
SPEAKER_00
So okay, so it s probably not charged.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah Okay, so I put it in I m trying with like all my might yes to get this hair tie
8
SPEAKER_01
and it will not grab.
8
SPEAKER_01
And I realized it s not even moving this hair tie.
8
SPEAKER_02
Do you start considering that it s already been melted to the face of the heating apparatus?
8
SPEAKER_01
100%, it melted, it s stuck.
8
SPEAKER_02
Welded.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
And so I m just trying to scrape it.
8
SPEAKER_01
It won t come up.
8
SPEAKER_01
I can hardly get the thing in and out at this point.
8
SPEAKER_01
So then I just have to turn off the heat.
8
SPEAKER_02
It s freezing.
8
SPEAKER_01
And then I get the fire extinguisher and I put it by my bed.
8
SPEAKER_01
So just in case.
8
SPEAKER_02
Wish for the best.
8
SPEAKER_01
Then the next day in the light of day, it s not a hair tie, it was just a piece of metal, part of the heater itself.
8
SPEAKER_02
The total construction of it.
8
SPEAKER_02
Oh no, so you were trying to pry off a piece of metal that was welded to it.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and it wasn t even an open circle, it was a solid circle.
8
SPEAKER_02
Oh boy, in the harsh light of day.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_02
Oh, that s a drag.
8
SPEAKER_01
It was rough, and so I still don t know what the smell was.
8
SPEAKER_02
I think it s just dust accumulates on those things, and then the dust itself starts burning a bit.
8
SPEAKER_02
That s how it was in my old apartment that had the same heater.
8
SPEAKER_01
I know, but it was extra there.
8
SPEAKER_02
And then I d have to pull the whole grate off and dust on the inside of it, and then the smell would go away.
8
SPEAKER_01
Well, that was another thing.
8
SPEAKER_01
I couldn t, the grate- Wouldn t come up.
8
SPEAKER_01
Won t come up.
8
SPEAKER_01
There s not even any screws.
8
SPEAKER_02
Ooh.
8
SPEAKER_01
That s really bad.
8
SPEAKER_02
I wanna inspect this thing.
8
SPEAKER_02
I now see this as a challenge for myself to get that grate up.
8
SPEAKER_01
Oh, okay.
8
SPEAKER_02
I don t care if I ve gotta break apart the hardwood floor with a pry bar.
8
SPEAKER_01
I hope you don t, okay.
8
SPEAKER_02
Or it s coming up.
8
SPEAKER_02
You gotta dust.
8
SPEAKER_01
You gotta dust.
8
SPEAKER_02
You gotta dust.
8
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, so that was a bad evening.
8
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that s a bummer.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s just, it felt very- Did you have a hard time falling back asleep?
8
SPEAKER_01
It felt very Fargo.
8
SPEAKER_01
I felt like her.
8
SPEAKER_02
You did.
8
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_02
You felt like Dot, Dorothy.
8
SPEAKER_01
I felt like Dot, Dorothy, who s also Home Alone.
8
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, Home Alone, Dorothy Lyon.
8
SPEAKER_01
And I felt like her, but then to no avail.
8
SPEAKER_02
Oh, that s frustrating.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
Okay, your yesterday, I know you want to talk about.
8
SPEAKER_01
This was a big day for you.
8
SPEAKER_02
What part?
8
SPEAKER_01
Well- My hike?
8
SPEAKER_01
No.
8
SPEAKER_01
Oh, what happened on your hike?
8
SPEAKER_02
Oh my goodness.
8
SPEAKER_02
The most important thing that, well, the lion s loss was absolutely soul crushing.
8
SPEAKER_02
I can almost, I don t want to talk about quite yet.
8
SPEAKER_01
Oh, you care that much that fast?
8
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
8
SPEAKER_02
Because I have loved sporting teams and lost.
8
SPEAKER_02
I know what that feels like.
8
SPEAKER_02
I ve been rooting for the Lakers and they lose.
8
SPEAKER_02
I ve been rooting for the Pistons and they ve lost.
8
SPEAKER_02
This was such an emotional event for Detroit.
8
SPEAKER_02
We have not been to the Super Bowl since 57.
8
SPEAKER_02
That s 67 years.
8
SPEAKER_02
The team has been a laughingstock for 67 years.
8
SPEAKER_02
The city needed it so much.
8
SPEAKER_02
If the 49ers lose, San Francisco is still one of the coolest cities in the country, and they got fucking Silicon Valley and whatever.
8
SPEAKER_02
You know, like, they re not struggling.
8
SPEAKER_02
Detroit has had a rough go.
8
SPEAKER_02
Sure, that s true.
8
SPEAKER_02
Like, I wanted it so bad for the people in Detroit.
8
SPEAKER_01
I see that.
8
SPEAKER_02
I was looking at all their, there was quite a few Detroit fans in that audience.
8
SPEAKER_02
Like, Nate even was like, God, I can t believe how many people are from Detroit.
8
SPEAKER_02
I m like, yeah, people have gone into debt to go to this game.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_02
Because they want to see the Lions come back.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_02
So really, I just was heartbroken.
8
SPEAKER_02
And it d been one thing if it started and they just weren t as good as the 49ers the whole time and they lost.
8
SPEAKER_02
I even think that s one version that would have been sad.
8
SPEAKER_02
But this was, they had it.
8
SPEAKER_02
It was their game.
8
SPEAKER_02
All they had to do is kick this fucking field goal to go up by 17 points.
8
SPEAKER_02
Instead, they decide on a fourth down to run it and try to get seven points instead of three.
8
SPEAKER_02
and they didn t get it.
8
SPEAKER_02
The 49ers got the ball in like the 20-yard line at that point, and then they, is that how it worked?
8
SPEAKER_02
No, it couldn t work that way.
8
SPEAKER_02
Point is, that changed everything.
8
SPEAKER_02
They got greedy, and they didn t take the three points, and then they completely collapsed mentally.
8
SPEAKER_02
All of a sudden, three, four passes in a row that were right in the person s chest and hands got dropped.
8
SPEAKER_02
There was a fumble.
8
SPEAKER_02
It just collapsed.
8
SPEAKER_02
Like, to watch the mental collapse,
8
SPEAKER_02
And it was interesting because there are a lot of rookies on the team that are really good.
8
SPEAKER_02
And so the first half of the broadcast when they re destroying is all about how great these rookies are, how energized they are, what a gift to the team it is.
8
SPEAKER_02
But then you see the flip side of the coin on rookies, which is like mentally, they haven t been there a bunch of times.
8
SPEAKER_02
They could not get back on track.
8
SPEAKER_02
And you just watch this wonderful thing get squandered for the last two quarters.
8
SPEAKER_02
Now for the upside of my day.
8
SPEAKER_02
I only hike with people.
8
SPEAKER_02
That s not true.
8
SPEAKER_02
I sometimes hike by myself.
8
SPEAKER_02
I mostly hike with people and I have not gone to the tippity top of Griffith by myself.
8
SPEAKER_02
So I usually go to the observatory and then beyond that, all told it s a six mile hike.
8
SPEAKER_02
And I decided yesterday, I went on a hike, and I was like, oh, I m by myself.
8
SPEAKER_02
I can go as fast as I can humanly go.
8
SPEAKER_02
I m gonna time myself and see how quick I can do this.
8
SPEAKER_02
It normally takes two and a half hours to do the six miles.
8
SPEAKER_02
So I left at 11.33 a.m.
8
SPEAKER_02
At 11.53, I was standing at the observatory.
8
SPEAKER_02
I was like, ooh, I got to the top of the observatory in 20 minutes.
8
SPEAKER_02
That was boogieing.
8
SPEAKER_02
Then I got to the very pinnacle
8
SPEAKER_02
It had taken me 45 minutes and then it only took me 40 minutes to come down.
8
SPEAKER_02
So I did the entire thing in an hour and 25 minutes, which is normally two and a half hours.
8
SPEAKER_02
It s the hardest I ve ever worked out in my life.
8
SPEAKER_02
Coming down the last two thirds after I d like exerted myself and I was jogging down a lot of it at the end, I went out to lunch.
8
SPEAKER_02
I was like, had such a runner s high or something.
8
SPEAKER_02
I started fantasizing about my next tattoo and how I want it to look and where I m going to place it.
8
SPEAKER_01
What are you?
8
SPEAKER_02
I got a hunch it s gonna anger you somehow.
8
SPEAKER_01
Oh boy, what is it?
8
SPEAKER_01
What is it?
8
SPEAKER_02
I m gonna get J2C.
8
SPEAKER_01
That s cute.
8
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s also hilarious because it s Capricorn.
8
SPEAKER_01
Your chart is, you re moving up.
8
SPEAKER_01
You don t want to acknowledge it.
8
SPEAKER_02
Well, it s Capricorn and Cancer.
8
SPEAKER_01
Oh, right.
8
SPEAKER_01
But it s astrology, I m saying.
8
SPEAKER_01
You re now tattooing astrology to your body.
8
SPEAKER_01
So your percentage, you can t deny.
8
SPEAKER_01
You also brought it up in an interview today.
8
SPEAKER_01
You re at 34.
8
SPEAKER_02
That may or may not be true.
8
SPEAKER_02
I ll accept that.
8
SPEAKER_02
But obviously it s not a tattoo about my astrological sign.
8
SPEAKER_02
It s an Aaron tattoo.
8
SPEAKER_02
I have a bazillion tattoos and I don t have any for Aaron.
8
SPEAKER_02
This longest lasting friendship I ve ever had.
8
SPEAKER_02
and I very much want, and for people who don t know, I know everyone already knows, but Erin and I are in the very most exclusive club in the world, which is J2C.
8
SPEAKER_02
January 2nd, Capricorn, July 2nd, Cancer.
8
SPEAKER_02
J2C is very exclusive.
8
SPEAKER_02
Oh my God, stop!
8
SPEAKER_02
So exclusive.
8
SPEAKER_02
I mean, I can t imagine a more exclusive club.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yes, I can.
8
SPEAKER_01
A24, A24!
8
SPEAKER_01
How convenient.
8
SPEAKER_01
That s cool.
8
SPEAKER_01
A24V.
8
SPEAKER_01
Okay, A24V.
8
SPEAKER_01
That s me and Dave Chappelle.
8
SPEAKER_01
Trying to join that club.
8
SPEAKER_02
The problem with that club is what makes ours cool is we re six months apart yet we have the same J2C.
8
SPEAKER_02
Oh my God.
8
SPEAKER_01
And we re different signs.
8
SPEAKER_01
Dave Chappelle and I are so many years apart.
8
SPEAKER_01
No, I mean.
8
SPEAKER_01
Whatever, my club s so cool.
8
SPEAKER_02
Okay, go.
8
SPEAKER_02
The point is I was really getting creative and I m like, I want the inside of the J to be the blue crow feathers.
8
SPEAKER_02
I want the two
8
SPEAKER_02
to be mammal fur.
8
SPEAKER_02
I don t know whether that s leopard or chimp or cheetah or something.
8
SPEAKER_02
And then I want the seed to be scales of a beautiful fish.
8
SPEAKER_00
Oh, fish.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_02
So birds, mammals and fish.
8
SPEAKER_00
Don t make it a snake.
8
SPEAKER_00
No, there s not gonna be any snakes.
8
SPEAKER_02
I guess you re right, people do get snake skin.
8
SPEAKER_00
And scales.
8
SPEAKER_02
But fish scales look really pretty in tattoos.
8
SPEAKER_01
Iridescent.
8
SPEAKER_02
Feathers and scales are like the prettiest things in tattoos.
8
SPEAKER_02
That s why they re so present on people.
8
SPEAKER_02
People have a lot of fish.
8
SPEAKER_02
But at any rate, the point of all that is, and I really got distracted with the placement, like do I want it on the right side of my neck?
8
SPEAKER_02
You re gonna do it on your neck?
8
SPEAKER_02
Just below my Adam s apple and then on this side?
8
SPEAKER_02
Do I want it on my left peck, my right peck, and then in my sternum?
8
SPEAKER_02
Do I want it along my hip, my, so I m just like playing with all the many different placements of it.
8
SPEAKER_02
And then I realize, oh, you re timing yourself to make this quick.
8
SPEAKER_02
Like at this point, I ve stopped jogging and I m just fantasizing about this tattoo that I totally forgot my mission at one point for like three or four minutes and then commenced running.
8
SPEAKER_02
But I was tore up.
8
SPEAKER_02
It felt so great to push myself that hard.
8
SPEAKER_02
I was so proud of averaging almost five miles an hour through the whole thing.
8
SPEAKER_02
So physically was like my biggest physical challenge I think to date was yesterday.
8
SPEAKER_01
And I m 49.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s cool.
8
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
Your back has a tattoo, right?
8
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I just forgot about it.
8
SPEAKER_01
The Chevy flags.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but I can t imagine it for some reason.
8
SPEAKER_02
You wanna see?
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s so weird.
9
SPEAKER_00
But I can t either.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s funny you bring this up, because when I was thinking about the placement, I was like, oh, there s something on my back, and I m like.
9
SPEAKER_00
I literally was like, oh God, I have one on my back that I haven t seen in 20 years.
9
SPEAKER_01
But it makes more sense that you, yeah, yeah, up top.
9
SPEAKER_00
Uptipity.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s a good size tattoo to forget about.
9
SPEAKER_01
It is.
9
SPEAKER_01
I guess I would understand that you would forget.
9
SPEAKER_01
People don t look at their backs a lot.
9
SPEAKER_00
Especially in the back of their neck is even probably the hardest spot to see.
9
SPEAKER_01
But we re all in saunas and bathing suits and stuff all the time, and I forgot.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
That s weird.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s kind of sad.
9
SPEAKER_00
I don t think I would forget if you had huge flies.
9
SPEAKER_01
It s not sad.
9
SPEAKER_01
I mean, no, the reason I, I said that because I, I don t, I don t think you should get a tattoo on your front.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
9
SPEAKER_00
Too much.
9
SPEAKER_01
I just, it s a clean area.
9
SPEAKER_00
I feel you.
9
SPEAKER_00
I know.
9
SPEAKER_00
I know what you re saying, but think about on Beckham.
9
SPEAKER_00
Is there any of them that you don t like?
9
SPEAKER_01
I don t even, I can t, I don t know.
9
SPEAKER_00
You re not sure.
9
SPEAKER_01
But listen, I was going to say that out loud.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
And then I thought, I think he has one on his back.
9
SPEAKER_01
I can t even remember or know.
9
SPEAKER_00
Right, right.
9
SPEAKER_01
So then maybe the same thing would happen on the front.
9
SPEAKER_00
Listen, I understand why you re saying it.
9
SPEAKER_00
And I have a similar inclination, which is,
9
SPEAKER_00
I like my tattoos more because there is so much blank space without them.
9
SPEAKER_00
They actually make me appreciate and notice.
9
SPEAKER_00
So I agree with you.
9
SPEAKER_00
I like having big swaths of like, no, no, they don t exist there.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
Why don t you get it on your wrist or something?
9
SPEAKER_00
I ve already taken out my wrist.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I thought about my hand too.
9
SPEAKER_00
I kind of want it on the... Oh, that s nice.
9
SPEAKER_00
This was another location I was considering a lot.
9
SPEAKER_00
Your palm.
9
SPEAKER_00
No, they don t really work there.
9
SPEAKER_00
Has anyone ever done that?
9
SPEAKER_00
People get it, but they get, they get worn off.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
In fact, I was warned that this one on my knuckle wouldn t stick around.
9
SPEAKER_01
Why don t you do it here on your other arm?
9
SPEAKER_00
Because again, I like that this arm s kind of blank and this one s full.
9
SPEAKER_00
I don t want two sleeves.
9
SPEAKER_01
Then just add it to that big sleeve.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, but I don t know.
9
SPEAKER_00
No, no, no, no.
9
SPEAKER_00
I knew that this was not going to, I don t think though you, if I had pitched you this, I don t think you think you would have liked this.
9
SPEAKER_00
Be honest.
9
SPEAKER_00
You already had, you already had something here, but like all of this, you would have been like, don t cover your, I would have said, don t get a sleeve.
9
SPEAKER_01
I know, but.
9
SPEAKER_00
But now that I have one, you don t mind it, right?
9
SPEAKER_00
Well, now you already have it.
9
SPEAKER_01
Too late?
9
SPEAKER_01
So you might, I guess, keep going there, but don t start in a new location.
9
SPEAKER_01
Okay, so then you finish your hike.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
I finished my hike, and I had a personal record for the plunge.
9
SPEAKER_00
It was a day of personal records, and I was delighted.
9
SPEAKER_00
because I m 49.
9
SPEAKER_00
It excites me so much that I think.
9
SPEAKER_00
You re in the best shape of your life.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think I did it as the fastest I could have ever done it in my 49 years, and I m very proud of myself for that.
9
SPEAKER_01
You should be, that s great.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
I love that.
9
SPEAKER_01
Oh, is Aaron gonna get the tattoo also?
9
SPEAKER_00
Well, so I m not gonna tell him I m just gonna get it, and then I m gonna see if he wants to get one too.
9
SPEAKER_01
He has tattoos, right?
9
SPEAKER_00
He just has one.
9
SPEAKER_00
He got one when we were all young and we were all getting them, and then he stopped.
9
SPEAKER_00
And I kind of like that about him because he was living in a world, he was riding with a bunch of different biker gangs and owned a barn down to Detroit.
9
SPEAKER_00
And for whatever reason, he didn t, which I think is cool of him.
9
SPEAKER_01
What is his?
9
SPEAKER_01
Do you know?
9
SPEAKER_00
His initials, A-M-W, right here.
9
SPEAKER_00
Aaron Matthew.
9
SPEAKER_00
Michael Weakley.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay, Michael Weakley.
9
SPEAKER_00
I told him he put the strong in weakly.
9
SPEAKER_00
Since 1975, putting the strong in weakly.
9
SPEAKER_01
Huh, that s, okay, because Callie, Callie has her name, too.
9
SPEAKER_01
Well, she has Watch, her last name.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh, that s cute.
9
SPEAKER_00
Is it in the shape of a watch or anything?
9
SPEAKER_01
It s not, but it s on her wrist.
9
SPEAKER_00
Where a watch would go.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
I have a ding, ding, ding.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay, what is it?
9
SPEAKER_01
San Francisco, 49ers, going to the Super Bowl.
9
SPEAKER_01
Noah Hawley, he went to, he lived in San Francisco.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh, he lived in San Francisco.
9
SPEAKER_01
And he was saying San Francisco s the only place.
9
SPEAKER_01
You get shamed for success there.
9
SPEAKER_01
But I thought it was funny because we had Billy Joe on who said the exact same thing.
9
SPEAKER_00
Right.
9
SPEAKER_01
Also about San Francisco.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
We have two people who have now attested to that.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
It s interesting.
9
SPEAKER_00
It is interesting.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s the culture there.
9
SPEAKER_00
That s how Scandinavia is, too.
9
SPEAKER_01
It s so interesting.
9
SPEAKER_00
I think Minnesota s that way, too, because of the Scandinavian-ness.
9
SPEAKER_00
Like, Peter was telling me they didn t know what to do when the Vikings went to the Super Bowl.
9
SPEAKER_00
They knew they were supposed to have a parade, but it kind of went against everything they believe in.
9
SPEAKER_00
Like they don t believe in a big, really celebrating people and raising people up too high.
9
SPEAKER_00
So they re in a tricky situation.
9
SPEAKER_00
That s also a ding, ding, ding, Minnesota nice.
9
SPEAKER_01
It is Fargo.
9
SPEAKER_01
Is it the first episode with the gas station?
9
SPEAKER_01
Yes, it is the first episode.
9
SPEAKER_00
That has the gas station set piece.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
9
SPEAKER_01
The diaper astronaut, her name is Lisa Nowak.
9
SPEAKER_00
And if people don t remember, I certainly didn t until I was reading about it and then I did recall it a little bit, but this astronaut wanted to go see her ex-boyfriend and she drove straight through from the Midwest or East Coast all the way to the West Coast and wore diapers so she could go into the bathroom in her diapers and not stop to go to the bathroom.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, 14 hour cross country drive.
9
SPEAKER_01
She s also the first astronaut ever to be arrested.
9
SPEAKER_00
That s shocking, because those 60s astronauts were wild guys.
9
SPEAKER_01
She wanted to confront the new flame of her former lover.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and the way the story broke when it happened was very tabloid foddery.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
That was the whole thing.
9
SPEAKER_01
He wanted to sort of give her some dignity back.
9
SPEAKER_01
Also, like, revenge is a dish best served cold.
9
SPEAKER_00
You already know my stance on diapers.
9
SPEAKER_00
So to me, I was like, this person s a genius.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
But also just like, maybe don t like try to take your anger down in life.
9
SPEAKER_01
Cause this could be you.
9
SPEAKER_00
This could be me?
9
SPEAKER_01
No, no, like.
9
SPEAKER_01
Anybody.
9
SPEAKER_00
It could be anybody.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, cautionary tale when revenge is driving you.
9
SPEAKER_00
Did she want revenge?
9
SPEAKER_01
Well, she wanted to confront the lover of her ex.
9
SPEAKER_01
I mean, that s all very, yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
Revenge-y?
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, vengeful.
9
SPEAKER_00
Vengeful.
9
SPEAKER_01
Anyhow, so just try not to do that.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, inaction is often the best action one can take.
9
SPEAKER_00
It is.
9
SPEAKER_00
Hey, hey, pause when agitated.
9
SPEAKER_01
P-W-A.
9
SPEAKER_00
Pause when agitated.
9
SPEAKER_00
That s good.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s really good.
9
SPEAKER_01
This was in 2007 also.
9
SPEAKER_00
her diaper drive.
9
SPEAKER_00
He missed an opportunity to call the movie Diaper Drive.
9
SPEAKER_01
That s true.
9
SPEAKER_01
It was from Houston.
9
SPEAKER_01
She had a steel mallet, a BB gun, a four inch knife, and large trash bags.
9
SPEAKER_01
Oh boy.
9
SPEAKER_01
Making her a diaper astronaut is silly.
9
SPEAKER_01
She was not well.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
Mentally, and then was gonna try to go kill someone it seems.
9
SPEAKER_00
Well, from the tools that were brought.
9
SPEAKER_00
Or build her an ADU.
9
SPEAKER_01
What about the trash bags?
9
SPEAKER_00
That s to put all the scrap lumber and take out the mess when you re building that ADU, additional dwelling unit, if you don t live in California.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, ADUs are very common here.
9
SPEAKER_00
Very popular.
9
SPEAKER_01
You have some.
9
SPEAKER_00
Guest house, we d call them, in the rest of the country.
9
SPEAKER_01
You have two ADUs on this property.
9
SPEAKER_00
I guess you could say that.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s hard to think of a garage as an ADU, but it certainly is.
9
SPEAKER_01
Okay, Fox Search Lab, that s a program he did.
9
SPEAKER_01
It started in 2001.
9
SPEAKER_01
It was still going in 2012.
9
SPEAKER_01
That s what I m pulling up here as the last update.
9
SPEAKER_00
Maybe when it ended?
9
SPEAKER_01
My guess is it ended in 2012 or 2013.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
Fox Searchlight was the very first place to ever buy a script from me.
9
SPEAKER_01
My first sale.
9
SPEAKER_01
Oh, that s nice.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, the one I was sued over.
9
SPEAKER_01
Right.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
Okay, now the pivot.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
9
SPEAKER_01
Sexual abuse.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
I looked up some stats.
9
SPEAKER_01
Again, it s so hard, these incest stats.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh, right.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh, because his mom wrote about, yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
They re so hard because so much isn t reported.
9
SPEAKER_01
Like, it s like the most, they think, like the underreported.
9
SPEAKER_01
But according to rain.org, child sexual abuse is an underreported crime, making it difficult to know its true impact.
9
SPEAKER_01
Many survivors wait to report child sexual abuse, particularly when it has been committed by a family member or never reported at all.
9
SPEAKER_01
Although statistics vary, research suggests of sexual abuse victims that come to law enforcement s attention, more than a quarter are victimized by a family member, while 60% are abused by someone else in their social network.
9
SPEAKER_01
The majority of juvenile victims know the perpetrator, and approximately 34% of perpetrators in cases of child sexual abuse are family members.
9
SPEAKER_01
This is really upsetting.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s rough.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s weird to have deep gratitude that a neighbor molested me.
10
SPEAKER_00
my uncle or something.
10
SPEAKER_00
I just feel like it would make it that much.
10
SPEAKER_01
Harder to report too.
10
SPEAKER_00
Impossible.
10
SPEAKER_00
Well, I didn t even report the neighbors.
10
SPEAKER_00
So yeah, I would have never reported my uncle.
10
SPEAKER_00
And then if you imagine whatever things I immediately inherited about the world being a dangerous place, I didn t also have to acknowledge that people I love and trust will hurt me.
10
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that feels like an even, I just was like, the whole outside world is dangerous and I don t trust anyone in the outside world.
10
SPEAKER_00
But I still had my family, and to have that stolen from you as well is downright- Horrific.
10
SPEAKER_00
Catastrophic, and I feel terrible for anyone who s had that.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and I think it s, again, not I think, that s what we re learning, it s so much more common than we think.
10
SPEAKER_00
So much that s more common.
10
SPEAKER_00
I think it was body keeps score.
10
SPEAKER_00
I say it in here a lot and I get the stats I m sure at this point I m way off but I want to say it was that 25% of couples have physical violence in the relationship It was like a staggering number where you re like, well fuck man That means I know several couples that are physically violent towards each other.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah well ding-ding-ding
10
SPEAKER_00
Scary ding ding ding?
10
SPEAKER_00
Duck Duck Goose.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s a Duck Duck Goose.
10
SPEAKER_01
Let s label it a Duck Duck Goose.
10
SPEAKER_01
I hung out with your children yesterday.
10
SPEAKER_00
Did you beat them?
10
SPEAKER_01
I did not abuse them, but we went on a shopping spree.
10
SPEAKER_00
Fun Auntie Monty.
10
SPEAKER_01
It was really fun.
10
SPEAKER_00
Delta was all decked out in her new outfit you got her today.
10
SPEAKER_00
And she had to stop right before she entered school.
10
SPEAKER_00
And she was like, Lincoln, can you make my pants tighter?
10
SPEAKER_00
And then Lincoln got in there and used a little stretchy thing.
10
SPEAKER_00
And she like got her all sewn up.
10
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, look at this good big sister.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_01
They re such a good little pair.
10
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I know it s different when they re with their parents, of course, but yeah, they re a good, they re a good duo.
10
SPEAKER_01
They weren t fighting or anything like that.
10
SPEAKER_00
They re a great dynamic because they have completely different skill sets.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_00
And together they make a really competent little duo.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so we went to Target and then we went to Zara.
10
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it was really, really sweet and fun.
10
SPEAKER_01
The problem was, upstairs of Zara, the air conditioning was out.
10
SPEAKER_00
Notes.
10
SPEAKER_01
It was so hot.
10
SPEAKER_01
Oh, boy.
10
SPEAKER_01
We were, it was so hot.
10
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
10
SPEAKER_01
I normally, I don t feel that.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you don t get hot.
10
SPEAKER_01
I don t get hot.
10
SPEAKER_01
And so it was, it was feeling like a little panicky.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, soul cycle.
10
SPEAKER_01
A little bit because I don t really feel that feeling.
10
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, oh my God, I like can t really breathe in here.
10
SPEAKER_00
Right, overheating.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_01
And then, and then, yeah, the,
10
SPEAKER_00
Well, the poor staff.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, exactly.
10
SPEAKER_01
I was talking to them and they were like, oh my God, it s been like this for 48 hours.
10
SPEAKER_01
But anyway, yeah, so that was a fun little girls trip.
10
SPEAKER_01
They had a blast.
10
SPEAKER_01
Good, I m glad.
10
SPEAKER_01
We decided, because it was for Christmas, that it got delayed and delayed, but then we thought maybe that s a fun time for us to do it.
10
SPEAKER_00
Better deals, post-Christmas always, they re slashing prices, everything must go.
10
SPEAKER_01
And then you ve already got your Christmas presents, so you know, you already have stuff, yep.
10
SPEAKER_00
What didn t you get?
10
SPEAKER_00
It is the cool move.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so I think that might be the new plan.
10
SPEAKER_00
The new protocol.
10
SPEAKER_01
Let s see what else I have.
10
SPEAKER_01
He just said a lot of really wonderful things.
10
SPEAKER_01
He said like, well, we sort of just talked about it with the diaper.
10
SPEAKER_01
astronaut, but tabloid stories rob people of their dignity.
10
SPEAKER_01
I thought that was a really interesting way of phrasing it.
10
SPEAKER_01
I had never heard it like that.
10
SPEAKER_01
That s exactly what it is.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_00
I was in this tricky situation and I generally don t, you know, I have a policy not to really shit on anyone s projects in this business we re in because I know how hard it is.
10
SPEAKER_00
But my girls got turned on to this kid dance show.
10
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
10
SPEAKER_00
Like a reality show.
10
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
10
SPEAKER_00
and they were watching it, and I was like, God, I don t like this show, and I don t like they re watching.
10
SPEAKER_00
It was like dance moms, and it was like pitting the moms against the teacher, and then the teacher had them come out in like crazy sexy clothes for seven-year-olds, and gyrating the hips, and some of these parents were uncomfortable, and then the,
10
SPEAKER_00
the teacher was a bit nuts and was telling him, it was not, and it was just like kind of a trash fest.
10
SPEAKER_00
Right.
10
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, how am I going to approach this?
10
SPEAKER_00
So it ended, they watched a few episodes.
10
SPEAKER_00
I didn t stop them.
10
SPEAKER_00
And I said, what do you think of that show?
10
SPEAKER_00
And they re like, it s, it s, you know, entertaining or whatever.
10
SPEAKER_00
And I said, something about that show makes me feel protective of the people on it.
10
SPEAKER_00
And I think they re being exploited.
10
SPEAKER_00
I don t think anyone on that show shined.
10
SPEAKER_00
And I think the producers knew that they were doing it.
10
SPEAKER_00
And I think it was really manipulative.
10
SPEAKER_00
And I think it just preyed upon some desperate people who maybe needed a little bit of money and were willing to do a show with their children.
10
SPEAKER_00
And they were both like, yeah, you re right.
10
SPEAKER_00
Everyone seemed bad.
10
SPEAKER_00
And I was delighted.
10
SPEAKER_00
And then they stopped watching it.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I mean, I think it s good to teach kids about exploitation.
10
SPEAKER_01
It s not something I think we feel.
10
SPEAKER_00
It s not obvious.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s not obvious.
10
SPEAKER_00
And in fact, while it was irritating me for the first two episodes it was on in the background, I wasn t even quite clear about why I hated my kids watching this show.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_00
But I was like, this is tabloids.
10
SPEAKER_00
This is like pointing at the bearded lady or the monkey man.
10
SPEAKER_00
You know, it s just like, if you make assholes out of rich, privileged people, I don t mind.
10
SPEAKER_00
Like, I don t watch any of the housewife shows, but I think it gets pretty catty and gnarly.
10
SPEAKER_00
But I m like, yeah, these are all rich people that didn t need the money.
10
SPEAKER_00
If they want to be on display doing this, I don t feel like anyone s being victimized or preyed upon.
10
SPEAKER_00
There s no desperation there, so it doesn t bother me.
10
SPEAKER_00
But there is certain, like, just combing a trailer part, trying to- There could be desperation in another way, though.
10
SPEAKER_01
For sure.
10
SPEAKER_00
And there probably is.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_00
But I guess, you know, that one doesn t bother me as much.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_00
There s like single moms trying to scrape by and can get free dance lessons if they let their kid be filmed.
10
SPEAKER_00
That seems pretty fucking gross.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_01
Oh, uh, we talked about the Sarah Lawrence documentary and then we said it s not fair to call it that.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_01
Not fair to Sarah Lawrence, but also not fair to Bill Lawrence.
10
SPEAKER_01
Bill Lawrence, for people who don t know, is a big show runner out here in Hollywood.
10
SPEAKER_00
Created Scrubs.
10
SPEAKER_01
Created Scrubs, created Cougar Town.
10
SPEAKER_00
He s an exec producer on Ted Lasso, I noticed.
10
SPEAKER_00
Oh.
10
SPEAKER_00
Another big hit for him.
10
SPEAKER_00
I was very delighted.
10
SPEAKER_00
He happens to be one of the nicest guys I ve ever met in show business.
10
SPEAKER_01
He seems so cool.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, he s a very, very nice guy.
10
SPEAKER_01
There s also like all these stories about he kept seasons of shows going far longer than he wanted to just so that everyone could keep getting paid.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, he s a good, good guy.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, he s of the Sarah Lawrence family.
10
SPEAKER_00
Mm-hmm.
10
SPEAKER_00
He has a great grandparent started or something.
10
SPEAKER_01
Family tree.
10
SPEAKER_01
Family tree, Henry Louis Gates, Jacques-Marie Mage.
10
SPEAKER_00
Jacques-Marie Mage?
10
SPEAKER_01
Jacques-Marie Mage, the glasses.
10
SPEAKER_00
Oh, okay, that is, I don t know that I m ever gonna know the name of those glasses.
10
SPEAKER_01
Jacques-Marie Mage?
10
SPEAKER_00
He has three French words in a row.
10
SPEAKER_01
Okay, well?
10
SPEAKER_00
Well?
10
SPEAKER_00
Guess what happened?
10
SPEAKER_00
Did you get a pair, Jacques-Marie Mage?
10
SPEAKER_01
I got a pair.
10
SPEAKER_00
What s the acronym for it?
10
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JMM.
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JMM.
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Can we call them those?
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No, we got to call them Jacques-Marie Mage.
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They re so fancy and that they deserve it.
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Where are they?
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I would like to evaluate.
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I wore them yesterday.
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You saw them for a second.
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You love them.
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Oh, they are here.
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Yeah, they re here.
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Oh gosh.
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I have to tell you, I m a little worried.
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SPEAKER_00
Why?
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That when I put these on, you need to have a positive reaction, okay?
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Well, do we want to enter a phase of our friendship where you don t know if I m telling you the truth or not?
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You had one bad experience.
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And I think that should buy you confirmation that all the other positive ones, which they ve all been positive besides this, were truthful.
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That s fine.
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But I own these.
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It s done.
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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But you were wearing my glasses.
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You weren t wearing a pair you had picked out.
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SPEAKER_01
I know, that s fine.
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It s fine, but it was a strong reaction.
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It was a strong reaction.
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I just said, those aren t for you, yeah.
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Those are not good for you.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, you did, you did say that.
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But it was, it felt mean.
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Oh my goodness.
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So these are my actual.
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What s it called, what if I don t like something?
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I told you, we already talked about this.
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Well, this I own, it s too late, you can just be like, great, oh no, but now you re gonna say.
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So great is, great is.
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Great is, I hate it.
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Is a push, is a push.
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Again, if it s just like we re at a store and we re trying stuff on, you don t love it.
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Right, I d say, oh, I prefer that other pair.
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That s how I would handle that.
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Okay, I prefer that other pair.
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It looks a little wide for your face.
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It looks, remember that?
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It s a little, the blue is a little dark on your skin or, you know.
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The man helped and we tried on a bunch of stuff and Liz was there and I like them, so I feel good about it.
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But these are my, and they re very limited.
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Oh, like my sweater?
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They re very cool right now before they re even on your face.
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I love the deep ledge on the top of them.
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Two.
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Yeah, it s really cool.
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They only make, I think like 300 and something.
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Of each silhouette?
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Of.
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Or a combination of everything.
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Yeah, they have a certain amount of each.
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It s engraved, I don t see where, of like what number this is.
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Oh.
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And then they stop making it after that.
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Can we take my headphones off?
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Limited edition collector s item.
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Those look awesome.
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Do you like them?
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Yeah, they re awesome.
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Do you like them, Rob?
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Yeah, they look great.
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They look great.
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Oh no, those are super cool.
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I like them a lot.
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And you know I m sincere because I ll tell you if they don t look good.
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You ll say, it s a little wide for your face.
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Yeah, it s wide for your face.
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I love them.
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They re great.
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They re beautiful.
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They only sell them in Los Angeles right now.
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Oh my gosh.
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They gave you all the top buzzwords.
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It was a no brainer.
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They had you salivating.
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Yeah, I had a fun shopping day on Saturday and Sunday with the girls, but on Saturday, I got my glasses.
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SPEAKER_00
You and Liz made some moves?
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, we went to this fancy store.
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Atelier.
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Sort of an atelier.
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We went to a fancy store.
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I m not gonna say the name of it because I think Unsinked will probably talk about something that happened there.
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Okay.
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I don t wanna.
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SPEAKER_00
Pretty woman episode?
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Sort of.
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TBD.
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Not TBD, Easter egg.
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All right.
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Well, that is it for Noah and that s it for Fargo week.
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Fun week.
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SPEAKER_00
I m so glad we did that.
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Me too.
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So fun.
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I hope people are watching.
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SPEAKER_00
Yes, me too.
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SPEAKER_00
All right.
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Love you.
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SPEAKER_01
Love you.