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Calling all conscious achievers who are seeking more community and connection, I ve got an invitation for you.
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Join me at this year s Summit of Greatness this September 7th through 9th in my hometown of Columbus, Ohio to unleash your true greatness.
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This is the one time a year
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that I gather the greatness community together in person for a powerful, transformative weekend.
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People come from all over the world, and you can expect to hear from inspiring speakers like Inky Johnson, Jaspreet Singh, Vanessa Van Edwards, Jen Cinchero, and many more.
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You ll also be able to dance your heart out to live music, get your body moving with group workouts, and connect with others at our evening socials.
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So if you re ready to learn, heal, and grow alongside other incredible individuals in the greatness community, then you can learn more at lewishouse.com slash summit 2023.
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Make sure to grab your ticket, invite your friends, and I ll see you there.
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The number one question I get at my talks is what do you do when the people closest to you don t support your growth?
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And the main reason they don t support it is because you re killing off the person they love.
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I mean, think about that.
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Like, you re changing who you are, and they re comfortable with who you are, and they feel that s their reality, too, is caught up in who you are being.
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So when you decide to change, you re killing off their buddy or their whatever, and you re screwing up their reality because you fit into theirs.
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Welcome to the School of Greatness.
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My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur.
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And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness.
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Thanks for spending some time with me today.
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Now let the class begin.
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And I wanted to start with
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asking you a question about money and talking about money for a moment because I feel like a lot of people are in fear around money right now.
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They re scared, they re uncertain of what s gonna happen with all these things in the world around money and inflation and crisis and all these different things.
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I m curious, with all of your research and all of your feedback from your audience with your book about money, what do you feel like is the number one thing that holds people back
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emotionally and mentally around believing that they are deserving of making the money they want.
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About the deserving piece.
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Oh, wow.
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Well, first of all, I think that a lot of people think it s not okay.
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There s a real morality around making money.
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Really?
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Because think about it, we really focus on greed.
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And when you desire money, it s not the same as being greedy, but I think that we combine those two things.
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And so, of course, if you decide that you want to make money, you don t tell people.
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I remember, like, when I was on my path to, like, get rich, people were grossed out, you know?
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Really?
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I mean, I always compare it to, like, if I was like, I m going to lose 100 pounds, people were like, go you.
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But you re like, I m going to get rich.
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They re like, you re disgusting.
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Wow.
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You know?
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So there is a real judgment around it.
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Why is that?
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If someone s ambitious around making money and creating financial abundance for themselves, why is that?
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I think because there is an implied morality piece where you re going to do things that are really bad for everybody involved.
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Money is the main goal, so you ll do anything to get rich.
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I think there is this really weird
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perception of that.
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And I do think that, you know, the news definitely focuses on all the evil that people do to make money.
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And so, I mean, you know, that you rarely hear about people giving lots of money away or doing wonderful things with money.
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It really is about how evil the rich are.
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Yeah, it s more rare.
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People are giving, but you don t hear about it that much.
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Yeah, not so much.
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And it s also, here s the interesting thing, because we ve also been taught to diminish our giving, like to not talk about our giving.
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Right.
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To make it anonymous.
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Don t brag that you re giving.
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Where I actually have started to prescribe to
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Maybe talk 50% of the time about what you re giving and the other 50% of the time it doesn t have to be, you know, you telling the world about it.
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But I think when you say, here s what I m giving, it inspires other people to be generous in giving as well.
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Absolutely.
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And it doesn t have to be only money, but it can be your time, your energy, your resources in other way.
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But I think sharing about it sometimes empowers other people to be more generous as well.
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I agree.
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And it also takes away the stigma that you re an egomaniacal fathead and that you want all the praise for being such a good guy.
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And why not?
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We talk about other good things we do.
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It s just money.
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I ve written about sex.
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I ve studied religion.
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Money is by far the most loaded.
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The most loaded.
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Absolutely.
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It s the dirtiest topic.
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Really?
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I don t know why.
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And I don t, I really don t.
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I don t, it s interesting though, like, did your parents talk to you about money?
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You know, I grew up- A little bit.
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Yeah.
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A little bit, but there was stress around money.
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Right.
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Which caused it to feel more unsettling.
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So there was some conversation, but most of the conversation was stressful.
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Or their relationship wasn t peaceful.
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Right.
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So I was like, okay, well, if they re not peaceful, but they re working really hard and money is tied to working hard, then something must be off.
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Exactly.
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And it wasn t a money issue, it was just an emotional healing issue.
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Right.
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And that just happened to be mixed in with money.
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Yes.
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And so in your little brain, you put it attached to money makes stress.
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Yeah.
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Exactly.
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What was your perception of money before you started to make it?
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versus when you started to make it.
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Well, I grew up in a super waspy household, so we don t discuss money like it s dirty and uncouth.
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Never learned anything about it at all.
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No education around it?
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Oh, no.
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Oh my God, no.
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Nothing.
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And so I was very of the mind that it wasn t cool to want to make money, the unholy dollar.
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I was a rock and roller, so I was more about the art.
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And you re not going to sell yourself out.
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Exactly.
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Selling out.
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What a concept.
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Selling out basically means you re getting paid for doing what you love.
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Why is that so bad, right?
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And then the whole starving artist crap and all that stuff.
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Yeah, and that rich people sucked and I was too cool to focus on money.
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I also believed I sucked at making it, which was the truth.
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I also had a weird feeling that it was almost like a different species.
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It s almost like there s me and then there s grownups, right?
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And I felt that way about money, too.
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There s me and there s people who actually make real money and have big houses and fancy cars and do stuff.
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But I was the child version of that, always sitting at the kid table financially.
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And so it was a total identity shift that I had to go through where it was like that I could open myself up to like being somebody who could receive that kind of wealth.
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It was a real big shift for me.
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Do you think we have to go through an identity shift in order to see money differently and to be able to receive it differently?
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I think you do.
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Absolutely.
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That s a really great way to go at it.
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Yeah.
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So what was your, you know, the key words around your identity with money when you didn t have much versus the key words that you would speak about within yourself or what money is once you started to unlock more money?
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Well, it wasn t necessarily around identity, my words, because I did have two very serious mantras.
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But there was a lot of visualizing myself with money.
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Like, I wrote about buying the Audi and you are a badass.
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And like, I m not the kind of person who drives an Audi.
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Are you kidding me?
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And like, almost feeling like the guy who is like test drove it with me would be like, get out of here.
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I know who you are.
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You can t afford this.
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Exactly.
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But my mantra is really, before I started making money, I said, I can t afford it to pretty much anything you could throw at me.
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My first words out of my mouth were, I can t afford it.
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What are we doing when we re saying that, whether it s true or not true?
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We are buying into an identity as somebody who can t afford stuff.
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We are also proving it.
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You know, what you speak, you want to prove because you want to be right and it is sort of the foundation of your reality.
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So when I say I can t afford it a hundred times a day, I m subconsciously pulling in proof like, look at the car I m driving.
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I m living in an alley.
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Like I make this much money a year.
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I m, I m building all the foundational blocks to prove that I can t afford it.
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And that becomes my reality.
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And then that becomes my, I like to call it familiarity zone because comfort zones are not comfortable.
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Interesting.
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Right?
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So, so then I m just proving it over and over and over and that becomes my reality.
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And then to shift out of that.
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Literally means to obliterate your reality and your identity, right?
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So that s why- It s like an explosion.
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It is.
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It s like you have to have a death, an explosion, a bomb almost to go off.
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It does.
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And it s killing off your old identity.
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And this is why I m going to totally go off on a segue here, but this is why the number one question I get at my talks is, what do you do when the people closest to you don t support your growth?
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And the main reason they don t support it is because you re killing off the person they love.
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Oh, man.
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I mean, think about that.
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Like you re changing who you are and they re comfortable with who you are and they feel that s their reality too, is caught up in who you are being.
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So when you decide to change, you re killing off their buddy or their whatever, and you re screwing up their reality because you fit into theirs.
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Wow.
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So it s really a thing.
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It s so interesting.
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I was telling someone on my team this a few weeks ago, that in the different seasons of my life, from 18 until now,
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I have had all these amazing experiences from school, to sports teams, to moving to new cities, to finding new groups and communities.
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And a lot of them I ve outgrown in certain ways, or just transitioned out of.
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Maybe not outgrown, but just I ve gone to do other things and continue to try to evolve.
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I m not saying I m better than, but I ve continued to try to evolve and let go of the old me.
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And some of them don t like it.
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And I lose friends in the process of changing myself, reinventing myself, letting go of old behaviors and stepping into a different identity.
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And it s not easy to have communities that you love and people you are familiar with and hanging out with that support you.
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And you go to parties and do whatever activities, and then all of a sudden they stop returning your calls.
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And they stop texting you back.
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and you feel sad, hurt, you know, disappointed.
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Yeah.
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That you re trying to go somewhere and they don t support that.
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It s a scary time.
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Yeah, it is.
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It s very lonely.
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That s why it s lonely at the top.
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What suggestions do you give to people then who are shifting their identity, stepping into a new reality for themselves, and their friends don t like it, their family doesn t like it, their communities don t like it, and they re telling them to, hey, come back and hang out with us.
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What do you say to them?
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Well, first of all, really make the decision, are you going to stay small and shrink just so that you can be around those people and make them comfortable?
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Or is your comfort more important and your growth more important?
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And also, it doesn t serve them either.
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Like, if you all stay at the same low level,
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Cause not everybody ditches you.
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There are some people that are just like, Oh my God, you inspire the crap out of me.
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I m going to do it too.
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Right.
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So focus.
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It s all where you place your focus.
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Right.
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And then also focus on who you re going to meet now that you re getting big.
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Right.
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Right.
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Those exciting, inspiring people who are turned on by the same things you are, who were doing the same things you are like, it s all about where you put your focus.
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And you can only, I mean,
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I really only have maybe five to seven close friends that I can actually spend meaningful time with, outside of my girlfriend, which I spend a lot of time with, outside of my team, which I m spending time with during the day.
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There s only so many nights and weekends that I can spend quality time with people.
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And you may need to open up space to inviting people that are at a, I don t know, an awareness or a support or a level of thinking that you want to be at as well to create that time and connection with.
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So it s scary though.
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If it s not scary, you re doing something wrong though, right?
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That s true.
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So how old were you when things started to shift psychologically, mentally, and emotionally?
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And did you create a bomb?
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Was it more of a slow breakthrough for you in shifting this identity and this old skin?
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Yeah, I was 40.
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It was in my 40s.
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I really struggled and suffered for way too long.
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I mean, don t get me wrong.
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I had a fun life.
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I was going on road trips and I was in a band and I was doing all the things I wanted to do, but financially I was just
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I was so stuck and stubborn in my thinking, you know?
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And so that s actually how I finally picked up a self-help book.
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I mean, self-help was as ugly as making money was for me.
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I was always scared I d die and they d find them in my house because I was too cool.
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And that s when I was just like, I have got to do something.
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And that s when I started reading them when I was sort of end of my 30s, beginning of my 40s.
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But it was in my 40s that I hired my first life coach and went totally into debt for it, like put it on my credit card.
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called her and begged her for the money back.
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And luckily she was a great coach.
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She s like, that could be the most important money you ever spend.
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Wow.
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And then I was like front row doing every single, single thing she said.
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And luckily she was an excellent coach and I tripled my income in like three months.
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And wow.
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And then once things, once I saw myself do that, then I was like, okay, this works, this works.
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And then I was just a straight A student just doing all the things.
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Just kept showing up.
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Oh, I kept doubling my rates and kept cold calling and doing all this stuff that I was just like, but it was so cool at the same time.
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It was so fun because one of the things about being stuck is that life force that s going through all of us.
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It was about the money, but it wasn t about ... It was about the money.
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Money is great.
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I love having money.
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It s just freedom and options, right?
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Money is just freedom and options, and who does not want that all day long?
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But also it was about the life force that I knew I could be doing better.
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There was just so much Jen Sincero that wanted to like go.
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Shine, basically, right?
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And I was blocking it off.
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I could just feel it.
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So it was just this clogging and this frustration that once I hired the coach, I was in the game, and I was playing, and I was taking risks, and I was doing stuff I d never done before.
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And it was so exciting.
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It was so alive.
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It s a life force.
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Money is currency, and currency is energy, and that energy is a life force.
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And when you were feeling stuck financially and around money, was it more of a thinking or a feeling in your body and an emotional connection to it?
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Or was it both?
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Both.
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Definitely both.
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What was the thought and what was the feeling tied to it?
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The thought was, I am never going to get out of this.
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I m 40.
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I m living in a garage in an alley.
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I ve never been able to make money.
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It s just not something I personally can ever do.
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And then more subconsciously, lots of things subconsciously, but it s not okay to do it.
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I discovered that I had a really, the biggest block for me was if I get really rich, my father, who wasn t able to show love very comfortably, would always give me a 20.
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That was his way of... Yep.
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And I was like, if I get rich, I don t need dad anymore.
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Oh, wow.
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And it s like putting a knife in his heart.
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Oh, my goodness.
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That one blew everything open for me when I realized that.
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And so, yeah, so those were the things.
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But it was really hopelessness, just like frustration and hopelessness.
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Like, how am I ever going to get out of this?
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And then I guess the feeling was hopelessness, despair, sadness, anger, frustration.
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Resentment.
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Yeah, resentment.
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Yeah, everything.
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Now, did you resent people with money back then?
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Was it like, oh, screw them, they re entitled, or they have this?
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Anybody who talked about it, I was really resentful of.
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I was like, oh, shut up.
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Don t talk about it in any room.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah.
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And what happens if we don t speak about money in a healthy way?
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We perpetuate it as being the big boogeyman.
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Yeah.
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And I think anything that s hush hush has, you know, and I do, I relate it to sex all the time.
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Like, we re all supposed to be really good at sex, but you re never allowed to talk about it.
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And you certainly don t learn about it, you know?
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So it s like this weird, mysterious, dirty thing.
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It really is.
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I mean, it s dirty.
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Money is dirty.
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You don t want your dirty money.
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You know what I mean?
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It s dirty until you don t make it dirty, right?
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Exactly.
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Until you change it.
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Exactly.
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So just by like airing it out and talking about it and being joyful about it and talking about what you do with it joyfully and sharing it and making it and being happy that you made it and not, you know, it s so not a big deal.
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And it s like we all need it.
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You know, it s so funny.
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I always think like,
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If I told the average person, I m going to give you $10,000, they d be like, sweet.
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But talking about how do you feel about rich people?
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How do you feel about people who make tons and tons of money?
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And the difference between that, you want it, but there s still dirtiness around it, which is why I put in two of my books to write that letter to money, because it s a really interesting exercise.
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You wrote a love letter to money.
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Yeah, you just write a letter to money as if it s a person almost.
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So it s like, I love you.
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I wish I had more of you, but I don t trust you.
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And I feel like a dirty for even saying that.
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And, you know, all so all the all the things and then you can see what you got going on.
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This is a topic that I ve been fascinated about for decades because I didn t have money at one point.
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Also, I was living on my sister s couch for a year and a half.
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I couldn t pay for the rent.
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I didn t buy food.
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I was just like living off of her for a year and a half while I was recovering from a surgery, a wrist that I broke playing football.
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SPEAKER_00
And I was afraid of it.
1
SPEAKER_00
My father also got into a pretty, um, bad car accident a year prior to me getting injured, where he was kind of that, like, lifeline for me, where he d give me a hundred bucks when I needed it, and paid for things, and just said, hey, you know, go live your dreams, and when you re done, we ll figure out what you re gonna do with the job.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
He got in a car accident.
1
SPEAKER_00
He had extreme head trauma, was in a coma for three months.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, my God.
1
SPEAKER_00
Ended up surviving, but wasn t able to work anymore.
2
SPEAKER_01
He was physically alive, emotionally and mentally kind of not here.
2
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_01
So he passed a year ago, but it was 17 years of him struggling, right, to try to recover.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I had this, you know, father backup to support me financially in a sense.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, just give me 20 or 100 bucks here and there.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he was no longer able to do that.
2
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I remember being fascinated by this conversation 20 years ago because I was like, I don t understand it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t know how to make it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t know why anyone would give me money.
2
SPEAKER_01
Where does my value come from?
2
SPEAKER_01
How am I going to ask someone for money when I don t even know what skills or values I have?
2
SPEAKER_01
Right, right, right.
2
SPEAKER_01
And early on, I started to learn from these mentors and coaches teaching me about money.
2
SPEAKER_01
And one of them was around the way we speak about money.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because if we are essentially saying this is bad and evil, or I m not good enough for this, then why would that thing come to us if we think it s bad and evil?
2
SPEAKER_01
We re going to be rejecting it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Or if we don t think we re deserving of it, why would we receive it?
2
SPEAKER_01
Why would we bring it into us?
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I had to really shift this conversation 20 years ago around money.
2
SPEAKER_01
And do what you talk about, which is just having more open conversations.
2
SPEAKER_01
Not talking about it like it s this hush-hush thing, but just being more open and conversational and not being so emotionally heightened when you talk about it.
2
SPEAKER_01
And learn from a peaceful place of talking about it.
2
SPEAKER_01
So, I love that you have this write a letter to money.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
And really, I tell people, if you want your money to appreciate, you must appreciate it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_01
And treat it like you re the greatest lover of your life.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
Treat it like if you want your partner to be investing in you and to be
2
SPEAKER_01
Giving you words of affirmation and a physical touch and like gifts if you want all these love languages Then you ve got to pour into and appreciate the partner you re with absolutely how grateful you are every day Tell them what you love about them what you see in them and when you appreciate a person like you said Or if you appreciate money it can appreciate in value and yeah, do you in return?
2
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s energy and it really that likes money is currency and currency is energy like and
2
SPEAKER_00
Like I had to hear it like 6,000 times before I really got that money is energy.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s a frequency.
2
SPEAKER_00
So when you raise your frequency and get into alignment with it, and that whole alignment thing is all about none of the limiting beliefs, just being in surrender and in alignment and having it flow in.
2
SPEAKER_00
At the beginning, you asked me what my words were.
2
SPEAKER_00
So at first it was, I can t afford it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then I eventually went to money flows to me easily and freely.
2
SPEAKER_00
And this is still while I was living in the garage, still while I was so in debt.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I had started doing all the energy work around it and I was like, all right, what are my blocks?
2
SPEAKER_00
Like when you write a new mantra, it s all about like really feel like the letter to money, like what just kept coming up and that I was stuck and that it was hard and that I didn t know what I was doing.
2
SPEAKER_00
So there was like hard and stuck and confusion.
2
SPEAKER_00
So flowing easily and freely, it was just like,
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, even though I did not believe it at first, it wasn t about believing it.
2
SPEAKER_00
It was about the feeling, because we are emotional creatures, and you know, that emotion, the frequency of emotions was, you know, the flowing, the easily and freely flowing was really, really powerful for me.
2
SPEAKER_01
So now when you write a statement or a mantra that you re wanting to step into, but you don t believe it yet.
2
SPEAKER_01
Is that lying to yourself or how do we overcome this thing that, okay, this is what I want and this is what I m stepping into and the feelings I want to experience, but I don t have it yet.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t, I don t.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that s not actually true yet.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m just going to say if you are not successful at what you want to be successful for and you re feeling stuck, you re already lying to yourself because you re buying into the identity that is not
2
SPEAKER_00
in the flow.
2
SPEAKER_00
So that s the lie.
2
SPEAKER_00
So money flowing to me easily and freely because I live in an abundant universe and I m a creature who receives, that is the truth.
2
SPEAKER_00
So even though the identity that I m in is not believing it yet,
2
SPEAKER_00
It doesn t matter.
2
SPEAKER_00
What matters is that I m feeling it.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I always tell people, you don t have to believe it at first, but you have to feel it.
2
SPEAKER_00
So that s why what the words make you feel like are the most important part about it.
2
SPEAKER_00
So ease and free and flow was the most important part of that.
2
SPEAKER_01
Do you feel like, OK, you said you were around 40 years young when this kind of happened.
2
SPEAKER_01
Was there something in your life that was like, I m just sick and tired of feeling this way after two decades?
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, I just want to see what s possible for me in this next decade.
2
SPEAKER_01
Was there something around that time that made you say, all right, this hasn t worked for 40 years of my life.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Now I want to try something different.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, I think it was, there really wasn t like, I didn t almost get hit by a bus or, you know, I just, I, first of all, it s so boring being broke.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like you can t do anything, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Really, you can t do anything.
2
SPEAKER_00
So,
2
SPEAKER_00
And and I think it was just sort of a it s almost like I ripened, you know It s almost like how many times do you hear something before it s the aha moment?
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, why does that suddenly happen?
2
SPEAKER_00
I think you just Finally are in a place where you can hear it for some reason So I had started reading the self-help books and I was really into it and you know, I made a bunch of happy
2
SPEAKER_00
Attempts at like getting my act together, but I think it was just I think I just ripened and then I made the decision Like I think really living in and and it was like a one-car garage like it was small.
2
SPEAKER_00
I Think after a little while of that, I m sick of this on I am 40
2
SPEAKER_00
years old, you know, I can do better than this.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right, right.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so I think I was just so sick of myself.
2
SPEAKER_01
My friend, Dean Graziosi, says, we pay attention to what we pay for.
2
SPEAKER_01
Do you think you making this investment in a coach made you pay attention more to, OK, now I m going to make my money back, and I want to make more than my money back.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I m going to focus.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m going to do all the painful things that she tells me to do.
2
SPEAKER_01
and I m ready to be the best student I can be.
2
SPEAKER_01
Is that what your thought was because you invested?
2
SPEAKER_00
Definitely.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I will say, though, is I ve had clients pay me lots of money and not do a damn thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
So it s not a guarantee.
2
SPEAKER_00
So that is part of it, for sure, because I ve also given free coaching sessions to my friends.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s the biggest waste of all of our time, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
So I do think that the exchange of money is very, very real.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I think, more importantly, your attitude and the decision.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s deciding.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because you can decide to invest, but you re still not committed to taking the action and doing whatever it takes.
2
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I ve been given things for free, especially at that time in my life.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like anything I could get my hands on, I was straight A student.
2
SPEAKER_00
So the money did have something to do with it, but I was ready.
2
SPEAKER_00
But you were also committed for free, pay, whatever.
2
SPEAKER_00
I was so ready.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, I was... You were all in.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Before you weren t committed.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes, exactly.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because you had the emotional blocks that were just half
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and so I do think it was that sort of, it s sort of like the water hitting the rock, and then it s the Grand Canyon, you know, like reading the self-help books.
2
SPEAKER_00
I did, I had started that a couple years before The Garage, so I was sort of priming myself, and then finally I was just like, I ll do anything.
2
SPEAKER_00
Hit me, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
What was the book that really inspired you the most?
2
SPEAKER_00
The Science of Getting Rich by Wallace Waddles.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, not only because it s like this big, because I m super impatient, but
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, and it s super cryptic.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s like, it s all about the universe being a thinking stuff.
2
SPEAKER_00
And when you impress your thoughts into the thinking stuff, it becomes real and material world.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I just, it really, really, really spoke to me.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ve read it hundreds of times.
2
SPEAKER_00
Really?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
What was the biggest takeaway from that book?
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I m so happy you asked.
2
SPEAKER_00
talk about this line all the time is to think what you want to think is to think the truth regardless of appearances.
2
SPEAKER_00
So this is everything, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
So mindset is everything.
2
SPEAKER_00
So regardless of appearances, regardless of the fact that I m living in a garage in an LA driving a car with no grill, like,
2
SPEAKER_00
Those are the appearances.
2
SPEAKER_00
But to think what you want, and I think the want is so key, too, because that s your authenticity.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s not like thinking what other people think you should do and how you should live your life.
2
SPEAKER_00
To think what you want, the purpose that you were put on planet Earth to live out, that s the truth.
2
SPEAKER_00
That is the truth.
2
SPEAKER_00
So your desires are the truth, not what s physically around you.
2
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_01
So how do we know that we are in harmony and congruency with our desires?
2
SPEAKER_01
that it s for something not just selfish and self-serving by itself, or ego-driven, but more, I don t know, driven by something greater.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, because if someone says, well, I want to make a lot of money, or I want to make $100,000 in a year, or $500,000, or whatever it is, or millions, how do we line up our desires with our authentic selves so that we don t hurt ourselves in the process of making money, or it become overwhelming, daunting, or draining?
2
SPEAKER_00
I think you always come back to, is it fun?
3
SPEAKER_01
Does it give me energy or deplete my energy and does it have meaning?
3
SPEAKER_01
those are the three things that I m really living my life by these days and I Think that if you re in alignment with those three things Another thing certainly, but those are sort of my big three.
3
SPEAKER_01
Is this fun?
3
SPEAKER_00
Does it give me energy and does it give me meaning?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and is it meaningful?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, is it meaningful?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I like that.
3
SPEAKER_00
I
3
SPEAKER_00
And where were you at 39 doing things that weren t fun, that drained your energy and didn t give you meaning?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, pretty much.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I was a freelance writer hustling my butt off.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then like when I really did the math, I was like, the amount of time I spent hustling for this gig, and they don t pay that well, like magazine articles, come on.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was making like, I was probably losing money, quite frankly.
3
SPEAKER_01
So, yeah, no, there was none of that.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was not fun.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was exhausting.
3
SPEAKER_01
It had some meaning, but you got to get all three, you know?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Or at least start working towards it, because you may not be able to at this season, but you got to focus on, can I get one?
3
SPEAKER_01
Can I get one?
3
SPEAKER_01
And is it leading in the direction of something that is fun, that is going to give me energy and has meaning?
3
SPEAKER_01
Because you re right, like when you re building a company or when you re doing something, like it is exhausting.
3
SPEAKER_01
But if it s still exciting and fun and has meaning, then yeah, yeah, it doesn t get to be a picnic all the time.
3
SPEAKER_00
When was the biggest aha moment for you then?
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, was it after you made a certain amount of money or a client paid you something or was it just a feeling you had, like releasing all of it in the process of working?
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, when was that moment where you re like, I m actually emotionally and mentally free around the idea of money?
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, interesting.
3
SPEAKER_00
Um, maybe I m not.
3
SPEAKER_01
No, I will tell you.
3
SPEAKER_01
No, I actually did.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I did put it in.
3
SPEAKER_01
You are a badass.
3
SPEAKER_01
I put it in one of them.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was when I had, oh my God, it was such a cool moment.
3
SPEAKER_01
So because money is currency and currency is energy, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
So we re really going to get woo woo with the money, like really shifting the mindset around money.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I, and bring me back to my story.
3
SPEAKER_01
If I go off on a tangent, cause I m about to go on off on a tangent and I want a room, but I, um,
3
SPEAKER_00
Money is currency and currency is energy.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
Money is currency, currency is energy.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I ve had so many clients that have told me, and it s happened to me too, where they manifest when they get into the meditation and they start to raise their frequency and they focus on the amount, the exact amount comes in from outer space that you didn t even think of.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so my story is around that where
3
SPEAKER_01
I was working with my coach and we were really going to shift my money reality.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so she s like, you know, what amount of money would be really great for you to make right now?
3
SPEAKER_01
Like what would have a lot of meaning?
3
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, $10,000 because I m $10,000 in debt on my credit card.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I hate being in debt.
3
SPEAKER_01
She s like, perfect.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so she s like, okay, so how soon are you going to make it?
3
SPEAKER_01
And she goes, you know, like about a week, two weeks.
3
SPEAKER_01
Cause I, you know, and I was at the time making like 30 grand a year.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, my God, if I made 10,000 in a week, that would be incredible.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, but you know what?
3
SPEAKER_01
I got to do it in two days.
3
SPEAKER_01
Cause I know myself and I won t keep myself in that frequency.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like I ll lose steam.
3
SPEAKER_01
and I ll decide that like, yeah, it s not, I can t do it or whatever.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like I knew that the stuff would start creeping back in.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I was like, all right, 10 grand in two days.
3
SPEAKER_01
She s like, great.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
So how are you going to do it?
3
SPEAKER_01
And at the time I had this little online coaching business that I had just started coaching writers and I said, I ll get three private clients, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
3
SPEAKER_01
So then we re, you know, putting all the pieces in place.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then she s like, okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
And is there anything else?
3
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, well, you know, there was this guy that I was coaching years ago.
3
SPEAKER_01
He was my first private client.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was charging him like 50 bucks an hour.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, I could also call him and see if he wants to work with me again.
3
SPEAKER_01
And she s like, okay, great.
3
SPEAKER_01
And we re still on the phone.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I checked my email and he has written me.
3
SPEAKER_01
I have not thought of this matter communicated with him in years.
3
SPEAKER_01
Email, he s like,
3
SPEAKER_01
you know, are you still coaching?
3
SPEAKER_01
Can you help me?
3
SPEAKER_01
When can we start?
3
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so she s like, okay, here s what we re going to do.
3
SPEAKER_01
We re going to put together a $10,000 package for him and you re going to sell it to him right now.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I know what I was like, I was charging him 50 bucks an hour.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was, and I really adore him.
3
SPEAKER_01
He s such a special person.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, felt like, you know, a greedy pig, blah, blah, blah, all the things, fraud, complex, gigantic.
3
SPEAKER_00
Imposter syndrome.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, beyond.
3
SPEAKER_01
Beyond.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so she s like, and what we ll do is we ll put together a $15,000 package and a 10 so that the 10 looks cheap.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, I can t do 15.
3
SPEAKER_01
She s like, all right, 12.
3
SPEAKER_01
Pain in my ass.
3
SPEAKER_01
So did a 12, sent it to him, and literally wanted to throw up.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was just like, if he, because I really cared about this guy, he bought the 12.
3
SPEAKER_01
Holy cow.
3
SPEAKER_01
I know.
3
SPEAKER_01
I know.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re like, I should have made it 15.
3
SPEAKER_00
I know.
3
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_01
I know.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, here s the thing, you know, it s not like you were charging him $12 on an hour.
3
SPEAKER_00
Obviously, you created a positioning and packaging of services that would over-deliver, that would serve him in a big way.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
I worked with him for five years after that.
3
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
So it s not like, I m just going to charge some number and give very little.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, no.
3
SPEAKER_00
You made sure that the value was there.
3
SPEAKER_00
Totally.
3
SPEAKER_00
How did you learn to package and position your value to be able to charge for what you wanted?
3
SPEAKER_01
My coach helped me put it all together, but then I had to rise to that frequency.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I ll tell you, you know, when you re charging something that scares the **** out of you, you show up with your A-plus game.
3
SPEAKER_01
And he did, too.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was a lot for him, too.
3
SPEAKER_01
We knocked it out of the park.
3
SPEAKER_00
Because you pay attention to what you pay for.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Totally.
3
SPEAKER_00
You ll rise to the occasion.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, I got to focus.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
I got to show up on time.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, my God.
3
SPEAKER_00
I got to deliver the results on time.
3
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
3
SPEAKER_00
I got to give my best here.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yep.
3
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
3
SPEAKER_00
So, now, I m curious about the next thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
Was that everything to the story first off?
3
SPEAKER_00
I want to make sure I get it.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
Money is currency and currency is energy.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m curious about the next thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
So once this happened and you sold a $12,000 package and you were like, this is crazy and this is more money than I ve ever made in my life, essentially, in two days, did you fall back at any point or did you stay focused?
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, interesting.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because sometimes people get an opportunity
3
SPEAKER_00
And they decided, and then, well, I tried it again and it didn t work.
3
SPEAKER_00
So maybe this was a fluke, maybe this was a one-time, and the thermometer goes back down to what they re comfortable or familiar with.
3
SPEAKER_01
Very common.
3
SPEAKER_01
Very common.
3
SPEAKER_01
I did not, but only because I continued to get coaching.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I got bigger and bigger and bigger packages.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I was paying six figures.
3
SPEAKER_01
by the end.
3
SPEAKER_00
100 grand for like a year of coaching?
3
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I just, because I knew myself, I was like, I am rickety in this whole sort of wealth consciousness department.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I knew that I had, it s like getting a personal trainer, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
So I just kept investing in the coaching and now I m good, but I do still have to work at it.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s different levels.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s different levels, you know.
3
SPEAKER_00
You feel comfortable at this level, but if you want to break through... Exactly, exactly.
3
SPEAKER_00
...and do something you ve never done, it means you ve got to have a different frequency still, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, yep.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, there s always more growth to be had.
3
SPEAKER_00
Do you feel like you re kind of at like a block right now?
3
SPEAKER_00
Because again, you ve sold, you know, I don t know, 5 or 10 million copies of your books.
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You ve got a coaching program.
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You ve got all these quarterly success, financial freedom, all these different things.
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but is there like a level you ve reached that you feel like, okay, well, can I break through this?
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This is so much now and I feel abundant, but could you break through?
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If I want, if I could decide what I want the next thing to be yet, I m still in that sort of incubation period of like, what would be fun?
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Give me energy and that meaning.
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I m getting there.
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Like I definitely feel like I m getting there and I m doing a lot of things that meet those requirements in the meantime, but it s not the big.
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What s your biggest, what s your biggest fear or insecurity around money right now?
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That I don t know what to do with it when I make it.
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Like I m good at making it.
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My bookkeeper called me one day and she s like, would you please just open a savings account at your bank?
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Because I had like a million dollars in my checking account.
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This was a while ago.
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I finally got my, so I ve hired financial plan, like I ve hired people who, grownups who know what they re doing with money, but like I m teaching myself about it, but I find it boring.
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I find investing boring and confusing and out of my league.
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So luckily there are amazing people who know what they re doing.
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So I have finally gotten that team together.
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Gotcha.
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And there is a little tiny part of me, if I gave it any attention, that is a little scared it s all going to go away.
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SPEAKER_00
Really?
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Yeah.
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But it s not that bad, and I probably should not even speak it out loud.
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Right, right, right.
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You re being honest about it, I think.
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There s one thing about speaking it out loud so it doesn t happen, but another thing about saying it so it doesn t have power over you.
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You know, it s like, if you re afraid of it, like you re afraid to have the conversation around money.
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I m all believer, like, don t speak into something that exists because you don t want that to happen.
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You know when I started talking about my fears my shame and my security it actually felt like the poison was coming out of me and Now I could see it outside of me or I could have a conversation with it as opposed to it being in me Right afraid to talk about right and then I could get coaching about it, right and then I could okay Let me create a game plan.
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Okay.
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Well
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I m afraid of it, but now I have a coach to help me invest it the right way and whatever I need to do. 
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As opposed to ignoring it and just, I hope I don t lose it, but I m not gonna speak about it.
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Right.
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That s a good point.
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That is a good point.
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Okay, I ll tell you another one.
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What s the other one?
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The other one is that I m going to make too much of it and I won t and it is it s kind of like the same as the first one but I won t know what to do with it.
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Like I m scared of it coming in too fast and too much because it s going to bury me alive almost.
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Yeah, I know, I know.
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And so this is like... Bury me alive.
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Kind of, yes.
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Why would money bury you alive?
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Just telling you what I... Well, this is the interesting thing, Jen.
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I think it s powerful that you re talking about this because there s different levels of insecurities or fears at the stages of money we make.
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And when I was broke on my sister s couch, I had a lot of fear and insecurity, uncertainty of the future.
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And then I remember one day I made $6,200 in an hour doing a live webinar selling a program.
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This was in 2009.
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Before there was courses and webinars and all this stuff.
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And I go, I m the richest man in the world with $6,200.
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Now, I had to split that with the person who promoted this training for me.
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But I still felt like $3,100 in an hour.
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I go, I could do this every day for the rest of my life, right?
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Because I was sleeping on my sister s couch.
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But there was still, I d never made six figures.
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And so there was still a challenge, like, how do I do this?
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And how do I manage it?
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And I understand it.
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And now taxes, what?
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All my money s gone?
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I just made money.
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I have zero again.
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And this fear of, like, this tax thing.
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And then you get to the next level, the next level, the next level.
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And I just think there s different challenges or
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things we get to overcome at every level of money as well.
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Sure.
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Yes.
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You know what I mean?
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You level the devil, right?
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Is that right?
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Yeah.
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So one of the fears is, will the money bury me alive?
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Yeah.
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Why do you think that is?
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Gosh, why do I think that is?
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I think it s my insecurity about not knowing what to do with it.
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When I had very little of it, I could manage it, right?
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That was easy.
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And then as I started getting more and more, and so I do have pieces in place, but I ve opened, I ve hired a new financial team so I can make, like build the nest and it will come.
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Cause I was like, if I don t take care of this, I will literally block it.
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I will energetically block it if I m scared of it coming in and think it s going to bury me alive.
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Like that is not,
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an abundant mindset, you know?
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Sure.
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So yeah, so I just created the nest.
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So now, ring it on, universe.
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Right, right.
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So now you have a foundation for it to come.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So it s not scary anymore because I know where it s going to go.
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Yeah, but I realized that.
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I was just like, wow, I am kind of scared of it coming in too much.
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I know.
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It s interesting, isn t it?
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I think it s fascinating.
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I think we all get to experience at different levels how to break through.
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Otherwise, it wouldn t be interesting if it was just, I don t know, there s no obstacle.
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What do you think are the key things that abundant mindset people around money do differently than scarcity mindset people around money?
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If you had to say three or five kind of key things.
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Appreciate it as you said that that is a biggie.
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They appreciate it and they speak about it as They love it.
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They re not weird about it They re also generous with it because when you pinch yourself off from giving you that is sort of a subconscious way of saying There s not enough to go around and it s not gonna be I m not in the flow.
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So when you don t give generously It s because you re scared that it s not going to come in anymore
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They take risks.
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You gotta take risks.
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You are where you are because you ve been doing what you ve been doing.
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So if you wanna change your life, you ve gotta do stuff you ve never done.
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What else?
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Wealthy people.
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They learn about money.
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You focus on money.
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That was such a big thing for me too.
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When I was broke, I never wanted to think about money, right?
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I was all about writing songs and doing much more noble things.
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Sure, sure.
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But when you re broke,
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All you think about is money.
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I don t really think about money that much now that I have it, but every single decision you make when you re broke is about- Well, I have enough to pay for this.
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Exactly.
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Can I afford it?
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What happens if I don t have it?
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Right.
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You wake up first thing in the morning in a panic because you ve got to pay your bills.
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So, you re always thinking about money.
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So, it is really just sort of getting in the flow with that and just being on good terms with it and focusing on it.
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And, you know, how are you going to make it?
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Like being realistic about your income streams and, you know, and if you want to make it, you ve got to coax it in, you know, give it.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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I m curious about this.
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Okay.
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You, you re a starving artist.
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You wanted to do noble things, which about art and making art and all these different things.
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What would have happened if someone would have said, Jen, you know what?
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I love that you re an artist.
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I love that you have this, you know, passion for art and you want to keep doing this.
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And this is where you ve been for 40 years and we don t want you to change.
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Here s a hundred grand a year for the rest of your life.
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Don t worry about money up to a hundred grand.
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What would that have done to you if someone would have given you a hundred grand a year?
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And you would have just been like, okay, I m going to write and do whatever I want.
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And how do you think it would have been mentally, emotionally, spiritually versus you having to risk emotionally, mentally, you getting to heal, let go, overcome, challenge yourself into asking for money, into becoming something greater than that limiting belief.
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What do you think, where do you think you d be now?
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probably would have spent it on beer, honestly, back in those days.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I wasn t you.
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You re absolutely right.
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It s an it s an it s a frequency.
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You know, it s like it s like.
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I don t know, I mean, I always I always had
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I guess I m going to say gall, that s not the right word, but I did, I didn t do a lot of stuff that was pretty edgy and I pushed the envelope a lot.
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So I may have gotten there, but I don t think it would have been as exciting as it was to do it myself.
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You know, there really is, you do grow and they say, you know, starting your own business is the best personal development course you can possibly do because all your stuff comes up, right?
4
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Relationship training, it s leadership training, it s inner child training, everything.
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Everything, totally.
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Every button is pushed.
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Totally.
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So it wouldn t have been as satisfying, I don t think.
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I think I still would have done it though, because that is kind of my personality.
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When I m ready to change, I m ready to change and I do it.
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But I think it wouldn t have been as glorious and I probably wouldn t have written You Are a Bat.
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It totally changed my entire life.
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It changed yours, but it also changed other people s lives.
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Yes.
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So it s who you become, the lessons you learn, the wisdom you have, to then be able to be of service and teach from your own experience.
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Exactly.
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Yeah, the book about me getting $100,000 a year just for being would not be that interesting to people.
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Right?
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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Right.
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That s interesting.
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What is the question you get asked by your readers the most that you wish they truly could hear and believe the answer to?
4
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Oh, so many.
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Well, the one that I said about what do you do when the people closest to you don t support you.
4
SPEAKER_00
Another one is how do you keep the motivation?
4
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Like, you know, we go to these seminars, we read books, we listen to the podcast, and we re all raring to go, and then... A month later, you go back in your old house.
4
SPEAKER_00
Exactly, yeah.
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So... So how do you stay motivated?
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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on your vision and on your growth journey?
4
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Well, I call it going to the spiritual gym and you ve got to have a spiritual gym practice because you do not get to work out physically and then stop going to the gym once you re in shape.
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So just because you got in shape at the seminar or listen to the podcast or whatever, you don t get to stop doing stuff.
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And it doesn t, and you know, everyone s like, oh, I m working so hard to start my business.
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I don t want to do anything.
4
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So it s like, it can be 20 minutes.
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You know, you working out for 20 minutes a day can do a lot of great things.
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So it s like spiritual gym workout, meditate for 15, read a self-help book for five.
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Like what music are you listening to?
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Who are you hanging out with?
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What makes you feel like you could flip over a car?
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Like what are those things?
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And do them every single solitary day for 20 minutes.
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It s not that big a whoop-de-doo.
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You know, when you think about that, it s going to change your entire life.
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you know so and take it as seriously as anything else because that work will make everything else that you re taking seriously and trying to achieve so much easier and you know i m giving a lot of talks right now and the and the thing that i m just so excited and i m so excited to be speaking right now too because it reminds me it s my spiritual gym right like we all need it so
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But the thing about because we are spiritual creatures having a physical experience, right?
4
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And instead of just giving it lip service and talking, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that.
4
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But think about it.
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We are the universal intelligence that created everything that is.
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We are.
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Our thoughts, our universal intelligence is stuff that created everything that is.
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Why are we not more stuck up?
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Why are we not feeling so powerful all of the time?
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If we re really going to believe it, if we re really going to go steroids on woo-woo and go there, if you thought about that all day long, about your thoughts being
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You know, when you re in alignment, not the garbage thoughts that you think, but when you get quiet and you tap into your inner yippy skippy, as I like to call it, and you re there and you re in the flow, it s like, it s so exciting, right?
4
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Instead of spinning out on how pissed off you are at somebody or freaking out about this.
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Judging people.
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Judging people, what we do all the time, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
If you can just catch yourself, and that s why awareness is the key to transformation, right?
4
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So you just catch yourself.
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when you re in the spins.
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And this is why meditation is so important because it
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gets you into the habit of catching yourself, right?
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Because you re trying to stay clear.
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So it s not just about catching yourself in meditation and moving the thoughts away.
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Meditation is practice for doing it all day long.
5
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So catching yourself and be like, ah, I m going to tap back into universal intelligence, the stuff that created all that is.
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And then just going from there.
5
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If you could reflect on You Are Bad, which when I read it, it gave me this jolt of energy because I was like, this is exactly what I want to talk about consistently.
5
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come out from maybe, I don t know.
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I think I read your book maybe a year after I started.
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I saw it out on the shelves, but I ended up getting it maybe a year after I started the show.
5
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And I was like, this is amazing.
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I m so glad you re talking about this, because it s everything that I believed in and everything I wanted to continue to express in my own way.
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If you could reflect on one idea from that book, and you could only share one idea.
5
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You re so mean, man.
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All right.
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That you believe
5
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is the thesis of the book that you want people to remember.
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And remember a concept, a phrase, an idea from it.
5
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What would that be for you?
5
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Well, kind of what I just said, but since I just said it, I m going to use my point for another one.
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Use my one thing, my one thing I get to say.
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I really believe that if we all did something that scared us every single solitary day, our lives would change so quickly we wouldn t know what hit us, right?
5
SPEAKER_01
Let s go, Jess.
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And scary in that like terror excitement way, like terror excitement, like you don t have to like run into traffic.
5
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You know, but something that s like in the direction of where you want to go that scares you because fear is the sign, it s the compass that you re getting outside of the familiarity zone.
5
SPEAKER_00
So true.
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Right?
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So if you just take those steps outside and just do the scary thing every day, every day.
5
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Wow.
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Cause that s, that s really when I was making all of my huge financial transformations, it was always, you know, my coach would always tell me something, I d be like,
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I totally didn t want to do it, but I knew if I did it, it would transform our life, and it was exciting.
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You know, it was like leaping into the void, just like, ah.
5
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Yeah, I love that.
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And that s the sign, yeah.
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I have this concept in my latest book, The Greatest Mindset, called creating your fear list.
5
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If you want to become fearless, you ve got to create a fear list.
5
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That s brilliant.
5
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And really go all in on this.
5
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This is something I did as a teenager in my 20s and my 30s.
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At different seasons of life, I was like, what is the thing that makes me feel so insecure right now?
5
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I had a lot of false confidence.
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I was like this jockey ego, like I m big and tough and I m an athlete and I can dominate on the sports field, but then I couldn t talk to girls without sweating and being terrified.
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I couldn t dance or sing in public without being humiliated or whatever it was.
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I couldn t speak in public also.
5
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So all these things I wrote on my fear list in my 20s after I broke my wrist and was on my sister s couch, I was like, I m already humiliated.
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I have no money.
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I m living in my sister s place for a year and a half.
5
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You know, my dad just went through this thing that I don t have him really in my life anymore.
5
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My passion, my dreams are gone, so what do I do now?
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Let me just conquer all my fears.
5
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And it was the greatest gift I gave myself because it gave me so much belief and confidence in me every time I would just get a little bit better in my fears.
5
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It s not like I had to overcome it all in a day.
5
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But I just saw a little bit of progress every day in practicing my fears, public speaking.
5
SPEAKER_00
a little bit every week.
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I was like a little less nervous, a little more confident, a little more skill every week over a year s time where I was like, man, I m a powerful human being.
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I can do anything now.
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Let me figure out the next fear and just kept repeating it.
5
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And I m still in that now.
5
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Like I m trying to learn Spanish and I still get insecure like speaking Spanish.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m still like a beginner, but it s like, I got to keep practicing and a little bit of growth every day, a little bit better.
5
SPEAKER_00
You know, I don t have to be fluent overnight.
5
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What am I overcoming?
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Just little by little.
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That really gives me a lot more confidence in self and belief.
5
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And I think my thesis is self-doubt is the killer of dreams.
5
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When we doubt self, it s really hard to do anything courageously because we re constantly in doubt mode.
5
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That s why I loved your book about stop doubting yourself and start stepping into your greatness.
5
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And a lot of people are stuck in doubt.
5
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What do you think, beyond facing fears, we can do to believe in ourselves more and overcome the self-doubt that we have better?
5
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I think not waiting until you re ready, you know, and this is kind of saying the same thing, like facing the fear, but like making sure everything s perfect, making sure you ve got all the money tucked away, making sure you re the right weight, you know, whatever, like just doing it now, you know, just do it now and take action now is a really big one, I think.
5
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And, um, and also,
5
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paying attention again to how you speak about yourself and what you think about yourself and how you treat yourself.
5
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And I wrote a whole section in Bad Habits about boundaries.
5
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Boundaries are huge when it comes to self-care and self-doubt.
5
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And we make lousy boundaries and put everybody in front of us because we wanna be liked.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then we re passive aggressive and resentful, which is super fun for everyone.
5
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So it s like,
5
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But, you know, really getting clear on who you are and what you love and making that a priority.
5
SPEAKER_00
When did you stop abandoning yourself?
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, I still do it sometimes, of course.
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SPEAKER_01
I mean, yeah, yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
In what ways do you?
5
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Oh, God.
5
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Is it in relationships?
5
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Is it in self-care?
5
SPEAKER_00
Is it in the way you talk?
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Not speaking, you know, sort of not standing my ground in the moment if somebody says something really crappy, you know, and it doesn t have to be.
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I m not.
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I also don t want to be the personality police, like if someone s going to say something.
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But more just not saying anything.
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Instead of rushing it over because it s awkward, just letting it sit there like the big turd it is and let everybody have a good look at it instead of helping them recover.
5
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In the moment is always interesting to me.
5
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So my mantra for the past five years has been slow down and shut up.
5
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Slow down and shut up.
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Like I m, you know, just listen and just choose your words wisely.
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You don t have to react to everything.
5
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Exactly.
5
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So yeah, for sure.
5
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Personality police.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
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It s not your job to teach everybody how to behave.
5
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Let them say what they want.
5
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Let them, you know, and this is all part of my whole, like, not giving a crap what people think of me.
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It s just like, think what you like.
5
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Think what you like.
5
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It s not my...
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It s almost, in a way, and I ve done this many times, it s not like I m saying I m above or anything, but when we judge another person because they didn t do it the way we liked it, or they think they should do it, or it s appropriate in the setting.
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We are being judgmental.
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We are being judgmental.
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We re not accepting.
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I m not saying that s the right or wrong thing to do, but it s just something to notice.
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There s a judgment that s happening.
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And when there s a judgment, there s usually a right and wrong.
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And so it s just, is that serving us in the flow of our peace, our happiness, our abundance?
5
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and being in harmony with the world.
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And maybe there is a time where we need to step up and create a boundary and say something and say, get away from me or whatever it is, but.
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But it s really more about it s the inside job thing where it s none of your business, you know, that s their journey.
5
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So that s really, you know, and I don t think we ever get there.
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I don t think I think it is human to judge, you know, and it s fun.
5
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Come on.
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Sure, sure.
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But but I do think that it s a very worthwhile way to spend your time, like working that muscle and just getting because it s also more fun, like
5
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If you don t, if you just leave it to them and let them do it, it s, it s, you re not spinning out on it anymore.
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You re not focusing on it, which pulls more of it into your radar anyway.
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Like if you can just focus on what feels fun and good and true and just like, let them have it back.
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Right.
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How important is healing our past and our thoughts tied to having peace around making money?
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Super important, because if you re, because if you go out and make a ton and you re still weird about it, right?
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You re first of all not gonna enjoy it and you ll probably lose it.
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Or you ll be, you know, put it in a hole in the backyard and never spend it or.
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Porn it, yeah.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it is.
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What is the thing that people should focus on healing the most in order to set themselves financially free?
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I think it s different for everybody.
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I think we all are fed different lies and fears and things.
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So I think it s, but figuring out what your bag of worms is, you know, you ve got to get clear about that.
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And I ll tell you the way that I discovered the big kahuna for me, which was my dad, like stabbing my dad in the heart, like I was talking about earlier, was spending money.
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So the way that I, so I did, I did the letter to money.
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I was doing all, I was really serious about figuring out my stuff with money.
5
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And I was at a coaching seminar and this coach was speaking from the stage and he said that he charged $85,000 a year to work with him.
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And he was great and I really loved him and I totally wanted to work with him.
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You know, when I heard $85,000, because I had been doing all this work on my wealth consciousness, instead of being like, he s high, like what a, you know, but about a million- He s crazy, yeah, yeah.
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Very rational excuses not to do it.
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Instead of going there, I went to, okay, how am I going to get 85 grand?
6
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Like, that s where my mind went first, and that s only because I d been going to the financial spiritual gym for so long.
6
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that that s where my mindset was.
6
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So I went, how am I going to get $85,000?
6
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And I had a vision of my father.
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And a lot of stuff comes to me visually.
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A vision of my dad.
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And he always wore this yellow V-neck sweater.
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And he had his hands in his pockets.
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And he was looking down at the ground really sad.
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And I was like, oh my god, that s it.
6
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It s going to kill him if I get rich.
6
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Because he won t be able to show me he loves me anymore.
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh my gosh.
6
SPEAKER_00
It was so profound.
6
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And that really was a straw that broke the camel s back for me.
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So what did you do after that then?
6
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What was interesting, I ended up not working with that coach.
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But I ended up hiring a different coach a couple weeks later for the same amount.
6
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So how did you heal that?
6
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belief around, like, I m going to kill my dad if I make a lot of money.
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Did you have conversations with him?
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Did you do something internally?
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It wasn t about him at all.
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It was about me and my perception.
6
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So what I started doing was visualizing him being so proud of me and supporting me and being happy and, like, turning it around as being, like, he s going to be so relieved that I can take care of myself because my dad had me when he was older.
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So it s like he ll feel so rested.
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And the other thing, too, that was so funny, like,
6
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So, my relationship with it was pretty rough.
6
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And so, when I started making money, and I would tell him about it, he didn t really listen very well.
6
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And I d be like, dad, you know, I just got paid this much.
6
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He s like, that s nice.
6
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He has an Italian accent that I always try to imitate that I m terrible at.
6
SPEAKER_00
At the end of the call, he d be like, you know, do you need some help financially?
6
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And I d be like, dad, I just told you.
6
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after the yellow sweater, hands in pockets moment, I was like, it s the only way he knows how to show love.
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So I could be like, dad, I just made $10 million.
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SPEAKER_00
And at the end of the call, he d be like, do you need 20 bucks?
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I d be like, you know, that d be great.
6
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Thank you so much.
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SPEAKER_00
And I could see how much it meant to him and I get 20 bucks and everything s good.
6
SPEAKER_00
So it was a really beautiful and it really healed my relationship with him a lot.
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SPEAKER_01
Did he say, I love you?
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Did he speak English?
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, he always said, I love you.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like, he was good that way, but he was a real, he just, he was a super introvert, and he just was really uncomfortable with emotions.
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Yes.
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And he s Italian.
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I thought they re all screaming and yelling.
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Right.
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And I was like, are you sure you re Italian?
6
SPEAKER_00
Sure, sure.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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But that was his way of showing affection, that he loved you by this act.
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SPEAKER_01
And he also was raised to think men are providers, and that s how you show, yeah.
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Even if you make money, I m still going to provide and support you.
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Yes.
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What do you think would have happened if you would have
6
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stopped allowing him to give you $10, $20, $50 because he wanted to give it to you.
6
SPEAKER_00
What would have... It would have really hurt his feelings.
6
SPEAKER_00
It really would have made him feel cut off from me.
6
SPEAKER_01
So this is interesting because you don t need someone to pay for you for things, right?
6
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You can pay for your own life.
6
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You can pay for food and dinner and trips and your home.
6
SPEAKER_01
You don t need someone to pay for you.
6
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The thing that I ve learned in the last couple of years of being with my girlfriend, Martha, is that she can take care of her own stuff, and she takes care of certain stuff, and there s certain things that I take care of for us, and I take care of myself financially in certain ways.
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I ve gotten to the point where I don t feel like I need to pay for everything to feel like I m enough.
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Like I m good enough or that I m deserving or worthy or this is my value and being able to give everything financially.
6
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Now, again, and I don t want to rob her of being able to pay for the things that she s made her money.
6
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I want her to be able to pay for certain things for herself, but it does mean I get to show up
6
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in a different way, maybe not financially, but spiritually, with my presence, with my generosity of my words and my time, my thoughtfulness, and provide value in other ways not tied to money.
6
SPEAKER_01
And sometimes that can be uncomfortable if we haven t trained ourselves how to provide value outside of money in a relationship.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I ve had to learn that, and it s been a powerful breakthrough in a lot of ways.
6
SPEAKER_01
It hasn t been in the last two years.
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It s been like a decade of me doing this.
6
SPEAKER_01
It allows me not to feel like, oh, she s paying for her own food right now, I m worthless.
6
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Then I m nothing to her.
6
SPEAKER_01
And it s been powerful to empower her to be able to make decisions financially, which she was doing before me.
6
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She didn t need me to do that.
6
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She was already doing that.
6
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But to me, not feel like I have to pay for everything.
6
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And she just has to, like, let me provide.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I know.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s interesting.
6
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It s more of a mutual providing of value in the relationship, intimately, peacefully.
6
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Like, the highest currency for me is peace.
6
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I would take peace over money all day long.
6
SPEAKER_01
And she brings peace to the relationship.
6
SPEAKER_01
Therefore, I don t need her to ever spend money on anything.
6
SPEAKER_01
Just be peaceful and I m you ve got a happy man.
6
SPEAKER_01
Uh-huh But um, and I think that s just something to look at like what how can you bring value into a relationship?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah related to money Yeah, well, listen Lewis.
6
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I m cutting you a check after I leave You said that right after I was like, of course, it s my daddy stuff.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, come on.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah Yeah, no, that isn t look at for sure.
6
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What s the best lesson your dad s taught you?
6
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you know, he
6
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I don t know.
6
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This is such a great lesson, but it s a really funny line, so I have to say it.
6
SPEAKER_00
I think he taught me a lot about perspective because he grew up in Italy, in Naples, and he didn t come over here until he was in his 20s.
6
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He just always thought American children were so spoiled.
6
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He was like, oh my God, you whiny little
6
SPEAKER_00
So I remember one time in college, I was like, Dad, will you help pay for therapy?
6
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I d really like to talk to a therapist.
6
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He s like, you don t need therapy.
6
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You know what you need?
6
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A war fought on your soil.
6
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And I was like, OK, right.
6
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Good perspective.
6
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But just sort of his...
6
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I mean I think also that you can love in different ways.
6
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I feel like that s sort of what he has really taught me with the money stuff.
6
SPEAKER_00
You love however you can.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean the guy could not look at me without crying, but he couldn t express it.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I was so angry at him for so long for not
6
SPEAKER_00
Telling you certain yes and not listening to me the right way and all stuff and I m just so he lived into his 90s And I m so glad he did because I feel so good with where our relationship was by the time he passed Because I put down the bag, you know, I was like let it go Jen like he s doing his best.
6
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I
6
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the best that he can and he loves me and how lucky am I that I have a dad who loves me that much.
6
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So it was really, really great.
6
SPEAKER_00
So I just feel like he really taught me a lot about it doesn t have to be the way you expect it to be.
6
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It can be different.
6
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Somebody can love you differently than you would love them and that you expect it and to be grateful that they do.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s beautiful.
6
SPEAKER_01
I love that.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
I want to ask you about coaching because I ve heard coaching a few times.
6
SPEAKER_01
As an athlete, I know the value of coaching from sports into business.
6
SPEAKER_01
I have a relationship coach.
6
SPEAKER_01
I have a, you know, health coach, nutrition coach.
6
SPEAKER_01
I have coaching in every area because coaching worked for me as an athlete to get to my goals and accomplish the dreams that I had in sports.
6
SPEAKER_01
So when I transitioned from sports into life, the first thing I did is look for mentors and coaches to guide me on my path.
6
SPEAKER_01
I don t think I d be where I am today without having great coaches and guides.
6
SPEAKER_01
Do you think we should all find a money coach or have some type of coaching within money, whether that s a financial advisor or maybe it s reading your book around money or listening to content about money or should we have guides and coaches?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, especially if you re not making it.
6
SPEAKER_00
You need money and you need it now.
6
SPEAKER_00
So get a coach.
6
SPEAKER_00
I always talk about Olympic athletes have coaches.
6
SPEAKER_00
Why do you think you and your scraggly little trying to scrape it together, why do you think you don t need one?
6
SPEAKER_00
That s what got me doing it.
6
SPEAKER_00
I was just like, who am I kidding?
6
SPEAKER_00
I ve been trying for 40 years on my own and I couldn t do it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Right.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
No, I think coaching, I think coaching because also we all know what it s like, like when you re saying, you know, how would I coach somebody who s going through what I m going through?
6
SPEAKER_00
Super easy, right?
6
SPEAKER_00
When it s not me.
6
SPEAKER_00
So that s what a coach also does.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s like they re not in your forest with all your trees.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like they re looking at it without all your bull around it, you know?
6
SPEAKER_00
So they can see it so much more easily.
6
SPEAKER_00
And so a good coach can save you so much time and money in the long run.
6
SPEAKER_01
Do you have a coach right now?
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t have a coach right now.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, but I m still in that sort of incubation.
6
SPEAKER_00
Trying to figure out what you want.
6
SPEAKER_00
Maybe I need a coach to help me figure out what I want to do next.
6
SPEAKER_00
Right, right, right.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
No, but I m not scared of hiring them.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I love that.
6
SPEAKER_00
Right, right.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
But you re in a season of discovering and reflecting on what you want next.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
watching the last decade, and now you re figuring out, OK, where am I at?
7
SPEAKER_00
What do I want to contribute, or how do I want to show up?
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
7
SPEAKER_00
That ll come to you.
7
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It s fun, and I m still doing stuff, and I really believe in not sitting around and trying to figure it out, because when you re about to do something new, you don t know what it is, you ve never done it, so you gotta go out and do stuff.
7
SPEAKER_00
Try things.
7
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Try things, so I m out there trying things for sure, and I m still doing all the bad stuff.
7
SPEAKER_02
We ve got a lot of really cool things happening in that arena, so that s all super duper fun.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s great, that s great.
7
SPEAKER_02
But just, you know.
7
SPEAKER_00
Live the dream, Jen, I got a couple final questions for you.
7
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
7
SPEAKER_00
What is the thing you re most proud of that most people
7
SPEAKER_00
What do I know about you?
7
SPEAKER_02
Um, I would say that I m a really good friend.
7
SPEAKER_02
I have friends, I have lifelong friends from forever, and a lot of them, and we re just like a family.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s cool.
7
SPEAKER_02
I have, I feel like I m an art collector, and I have all these masterpieces of humanity that I just, I pick good ones.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s great.
7
SPEAKER_02
And I keep them around, because they re really important to me.
7
SPEAKER_02
That s cool.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
I like that explanation of it.
7
SPEAKER_00
You re an art curator of humanity.
7
SPEAKER_00
I am.
7
SPEAKER_00
I like that.
7
SPEAKER_02
I m telling you, I want to have an unveiling, which will just be called a party to some people.
7
SPEAKER_00
I like that a lot.
7
SPEAKER_00
I asked you this question on our previous
7
SPEAKER_00
interview that was a virtual interview, but I m curious your response to it now.
7
SPEAKER_00
So we ll have to reflect afterwards on what those answers were before to where they are now.
7
SPEAKER_00
This question is called the three truths.
7
SPEAKER_00
So imagine a hypothetical scenario.
7
SPEAKER_00
You get to live as long as you want to live on this earth, but then one day you turn off the lights in this physical world.
7
SPEAKER_00
And you get to create and achieve and accomplish all the things you want to do.
7
SPEAKER_00
But for whatever reason, all of your written audio and video material has to go with you.
7
SPEAKER_00
OK.
7
SPEAKER_00
From all your books and this interview and everything is gone.
7
SPEAKER_00
Hypothetical scenario.
7
SPEAKER_00
OK.
7
SPEAKER_00
But you get to leave behind three truths, three lessons you would share with the world.
7
SPEAKER_00
And this is all we have left of your words.
7
SPEAKER_00
What would be those three truths for you?
7
SPEAKER_02
Um, well, let s see.
7
SPEAKER_02
Three truths would be the most important thing to develop if you want to really live an awesome life is your mindset.
7
SPEAKER_02
Really develop your mindset and pay attention to it.
7
SPEAKER_02
Um, do the scary thing.
7
SPEAKER_02
Definitely do the scary thing every single day and have as much fun as you can.
7
SPEAKER_02
Like what else are we here for?
7
SPEAKER_00
That s beautiful.
7
SPEAKER_00
You have...
7
SPEAKER_00
Again, 10-year anniversary of You Are a Bat.
7
SPEAKER_00
You ve got other amazing books as well.
7
SPEAKER_00
You re a Bat at Making Money.
7
SPEAKER_00
You re a Bat at Every Day.
7
SPEAKER_00
Bat at Habits.
7
SPEAKER_00
So many amazing books.
7
SPEAKER_00
Number one New York Times bestseller.
7
SPEAKER_00
You ve got an amazing course, I believe, as well.
7
SPEAKER_00
Coaching course?
7
SPEAKER_02
Group coaching course.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s so fun.
7
SPEAKER_00
Group coaching course at jensincero.com.
7
SPEAKER_00
S-I-N-C-E-R-O.com, where they can get that information.
7
SPEAKER_00
What do they get in this course and this coaching?
7
SPEAKER_02
Well, I m doing it live now, which I haven t done in eight years.
7
SPEAKER_02
And it s so much fun.
7
SPEAKER_02
I missed coaching.
7
SPEAKER_02
I really miss talking to other people.
7
SPEAKER_02
And it s, I ve been selling it as a DIY course for a while, but now I m back in it.
7
SPEAKER_02
So basically you get, um, it s eight weeks long.
7
SPEAKER_02
You get, and we, and what I love about this course is I wrote it right after I finished writing you are a badass.
7
SPEAKER_02
So I put in a lot of like time management and sort of like, you know, brass taxi kind of thing.
7
SPEAKER_02
And every other week is a spiritual element.
7
SPEAKER_02
So you start applying the spiritual to the tactile.
7
SPEAKER_02
So because I really feel like, you know, we talk about all this stuff, but unless you re actually doing it while you re taking action, who cares?
7
SPEAKER_02
So people, it s been so much fun.
7
SPEAKER_02
So basically you get a video at the beginning of the week.
7
SPEAKER_02
You get a PDF with the video.
7
SPEAKER_02
And then every other week, you get a 90-minute coaching, group coaching call with me.
7
SPEAKER_00
Wow, that s cool.
7
SPEAKER_02
It s recorded, so if you can t be there, it s fine.
7
SPEAKER_02
Or a guided meditation or a guided motivational.
7
SPEAKER_02
That s beautiful.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it s really fun.
7
SPEAKER_02
And a Facebook group where you can hang out with the other people in the course.
7
SPEAKER_00
Everyone could use more coaching from you.
7
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
7
SPEAKER_00
This energy, I love it.
7
SPEAKER_00
You re also on social media everywhere, Janice Sanchero everywhere on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook.
7
SPEAKER_00
What s the main platform you hang out the most?
7
SPEAKER_00
I like Instagram the best.
7
SPEAKER_00
Instagram.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
7
SPEAKER_00
I ll make sure to follow you there.
7
SPEAKER_00
So if you enjoyed this, make sure to follow, share a story, leave a message about your biggest takeaway from this episode on social media and also in the comments below over on YouTube.
7
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I want to acknowledge you, Jen, for your journey.
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You being an example of what s possible for people.
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Someone, you know, your whole life until you were 40, really being stuck in a mindset and having the courage to break through, through taking action on your fears consistently, through investing in yourself, through investing in coaching, through being willing to risk feeling vulnerable, feeling overwhelmed, feeling embarrassed, feeling like a failure at times.
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and doing it consistently over the last, I guess, 15 plus years now.
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So I really acknowledge it for...
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you being a channel to share this work with the world and impacting so many people along the way.
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It s been a beautiful journey to watch.
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I m a fan of you, your work, your books.
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It resonates so much with me, so I acknowledge you for the gift that you are to humanity as well.
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It s beautiful.
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Thank you so much.
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You re welcome.
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It s so nice to meet you in person.
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You re like the easiest, but you re totally kindred.
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You are.
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Like, you re just nice.
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You re all day.
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Yeah.
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My final question is, what s your definition of greatness?
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allowing yourself to be, do and have everything that lights up your little heart.
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I hope today s episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness.
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Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today s show with all the important links.
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And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel on apple podcast.
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If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend.
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Leave us a review over on Apple podcast and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis Howes.
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I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better.
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And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness Newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com slash newsletter.
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And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.
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And now it s time to go out there and do something great.