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A new season of Bridgerton is here.
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And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
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I m your host, Gabby Collins.
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And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
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Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
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Then fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday.
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This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol.
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The joy they brought to the nation.
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You re free completely.
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No one is there to destroy you.
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The danger they endured.
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They said my head should be cut off.
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I m John Legend.
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Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Guess what, Will?
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What s up, Mango?
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I ve been trying to write a promo for our podcast, Part-Time Genius, but even though we ve done over 250 episodes, we don t really talk about murders or cults.
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I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese, so I feel like that makes us pretty edgy.
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We also solve mysteries like how Chinese is your Chinese food and how do dollar stores make money?
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And then, of course, can you game a dog show?
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So what you re saying is everyone should be listening.
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Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
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I was drugged and just, like, missing for, like, seven hours.
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I didn t want to find out what happened.
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I want revenge.
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Her EP is called Everything to Everyone.
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It s Renee Rapp in the middle.
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Let s give her a round of applause.
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I was shamed for so many years for being so hyper-emotional and crying so much and, like, getting angry so fast.
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I just am so afraid to celebrate myself and then be, like, slapped in the face.
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I don t want that.
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I value, like, being very true to how you feel, whether that s a good feeling or not.
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That s powerful.
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Before we jump into this episode, I d like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed.
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It s incredible to see all your comments, and we re just getting started.
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Thank you so much for subscribing.
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It means the world to me.
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The best-selling author and host.
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The number one health and wellness podcast.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty.
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Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world.
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Thanks to each and every single one of you that keep coming back every week to listen, learn, and grow.
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Now you know that the conversations we want to have on this platform are conversations of the heart and soul, conversations of the mind, conversations that help us become better, live better,
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evolve, understand our authentic selves and share that journey with our friends.
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And today s guest is someone who I believe has been on a rollercoaster of a journey and trying to navigate that and manage that with grace and with contentment in a way that I m excited to explore today and get curious about.
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Today s guest is Renee Rapp, and she knew she was born to perform ever since she was a kid.
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Renee s career took off when she landed the coveted role of Regina George in the Tony-nominated Mean Girls musical on Broadway.
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Shortly after, Renee found widespread recognition and praise from the likes of Harper s Bazaar and The Hollywood Reporter for her performance as Layton on the HBO Max series, The Sex Lives of College Girls.
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Big fan over here.
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Renee then turned her attention back to music, sharing her threadbare insecurities on her debut single, Tattoos, and the multi-hyphenate entire debut headline tour sold out in a matter of minutes.
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Her inspiring single, Too Well, has impacted the top 40, and Renee s discography has amassed over 200 million streams and counting.
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And today we re talking about her new work, which I can t wait to dive into.
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Renee, welcome to the show.
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Thanks.
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Thanks for having me.
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Honestly, I feel like you ve been through so much change, so many, you know, career paths.
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And then I was like, you re so young as well.
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And I was like, wow, like it s so much that you ve been through.
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And I guess my first question is, how do you feel about where you ve landed now?
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Like who is the Renee today?
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What version of this is you?
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How are you feeling?
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My manager and I were just talking about this in the car.
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Every couple months, I get into this new wave of where something really settles in, where I m at a new level, or I feel like personally I m at a new level, or I m at a different level of visibility.
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Typically in the past, it s felt really good.
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Right now, to be honest, it feels very scary in a lot of ways.
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I m really aware of myself all of a sudden.
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So I love the changes.
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I feel very grateful right now for everything I ve done and hopefully Knock on Wood or whatever continues to do.
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The new, the new, the newness and the new levels when they come, it knocks me.
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It knocks me.
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What s scary?
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I am becoming much more aware of how people perceive me.
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And whether that s good or bad or in between, I feel some kind of way about it.
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And I m trying to like let that go really bad.
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I m trying really, really hard.
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It s not been working.
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We had a bunch of stuff come out this morning about the album, and granted, this is all fairly good news, but I immediately just started having such an anxiety attack, because I was like, oh, I just don t want anybody to ever speak about me again, which is exactly why I m here today.
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And exactly why I keep doing this.
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Yeah, it s a weird thing.
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I don t know.
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I don t know.
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It s interesting.
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It s never really sat with me before in that way.
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Like this really hit me about a week ago where I was like, oh, I ve actually chosen to like have a very visible life.
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Just really hit me to be honest.
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Yeah.
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I m like, okay.
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Yeah.
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In my own small way, I can relate to that as well.
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In my own world.
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It s the same thing though.
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What s really interesting is I think from the outside in, a level up looks quite
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At least from the way I perceive it, my opinion.
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Sure, sure, sure.
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I think from the outside in, most people s careers level up, look very orchestrated and manufactured, when in reality they re a lot more organic and they re a lot more natural.
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I think so.
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I think so.
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Especially like… I m such an internet rat.
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I really have to get better about not reading everything.
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I m so bad at that.
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I commend people who are good at being like, I m going to turn my phone off and not take this to heart.
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I cannot do that.
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I care so much and I gotta let that go.
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But I definitely feel that way because I read things sometimes, again, I shouldn t be reading, but that are so interesting to me.
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Like somebody the other day called me an industry plant and I was like, bro, I wish I was an industry plant.
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I was like, that would be amazing.
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I was like, that would be iconic.
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I was like, if like my father was like some like industry mogul, that would be lovely.
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He went into like medical sales.
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Like he didn t help me out like that, you know?
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So yeah, it s always, it s always interesting.
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And I find it really silly and funny, but yeah.
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Yeah, and then it must be hard.
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I mean, obviously I think everyone s seen it, the video where you sadly have a stalker coming up to you and Drew on set, on stage.
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Yeah.
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And then it s almost like, looks like you ve been notified and you kind of see it coming and then you re protecting Drew.
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Like, I mean, like when you have moments like that happen, does that almost make you feel more vulnerable and susceptible or?
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I feel like even to say it out loud, it sounds so silly and so like, woe is me.
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But I really was so weirded out by that whole thing.
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That s not to say that it shouldn t be.
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I don t know.
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She s such a G and she s such a pro and sadly has probably had that happen her entire life.
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I ve never been in situations where that has happened to myself, luckily, or anybody around me.
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That was so scary.
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Understandable.
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I don t know.
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He had a bag on him and I was like, okay, I just don t know where this could go.
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Also, I live in fight or flight just by the nature of having so much anxiety.
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So when you see me twitch in that video and go, it s half of A, I m a pretty transparent person.
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If somebody scares me, you re going to know.
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And also B, that was so jarring for me.
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But yeah, I don t know.
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I ve just never been through anything like that before.
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To me, I m like, I know it sounds very woe is me and silly, but it did scare the hell out of me.
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It was very weird.
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Fully understandable.
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I m glad that, you know, it didn t go any further than it did.
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Same.
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And yeah, it s always worrying.
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Again, I think it s the unpredictability of it.
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I was reading a study that was saying that humans would rather know 100% that a bad thing is going to happen as opposed to have a 50-50 chance of it happening or not happening.
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Oh my God.
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Yeah, probably.
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Right?
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Like we would rather know that something bad is going to happen rather than live in this world of like, it could or it couldn t.
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Yeah.
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Like that uncertainty.
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You ve been doing this for a long time.
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What parts of your anxiety have...
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you got better at dealing with, and what parts of anxiety are still just flaring up?
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Well, it s funny, because I think that I get what you re saying, because 100% of my decision-making happens before I do something.
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Like this morning, when chart data or things are coming out about the album, before anything was even posted, published, out there, whatever, I had already made the assumption and was already like, okay, people are going to be
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upset about this, this is going to be not real.
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And I ve already decided that it s bad before it happens so that I ve, I can prepare myself to at least not be so disappointed.
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Um, so I definitely do that.
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Uh, does that help?
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I actually don t know.
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I don t know because for everyone around me, like all they say is like, we really want you to enjoy things.
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And like, we want you to be having fun and we want you to be able to celebrate yourself.
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I just am so afraid to celebrate myself and then be like slapped in the face.
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I don t want that.
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I would, I don t know.
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And I don t know if it s not great to say I would rather live in a state of like, just like chilling and like hope that nothing horrific happens, but be prepared if it does.
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I don t know what s better or worse.
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I m not sure.
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No, I don t think there is.
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I just wanted to know how you feel.
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Yeah, I don t know.
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I mean, don t get me wrong.
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I would love to enjoy things a little bit more.
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I m not really there right now.
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I still, I still, I think have like the same anxieties as when I started.
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It s just more that I m, I m much more aware of how I m perceived now.
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And you feel before you just weren t aware.
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And so, yeah, I just kind of was like, Oh, this is me.
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I m so,
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out here and don t care and whatever.
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I was always just so hungry to do this and to be doing music that it was just like, run for it.
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And now I kind of feel like that I m embarking on whatever music looks like in my life, I m much more nervous about it.
1
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Maybe just because I m in it and experiencing it, but it s definitely weird.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s definitely weird.
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Do you have to turn down the outside noise when you re creating and when you re making, and are you able to do that, or is it just so hard?
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SPEAKER_00
It s not something that I really think of when I m creating.
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It s something I think of when I m acting.
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I m more so thinking about, for me, do I feel like I m doing the best I possibly can?
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I m so hypercritical of myself when I m writing.
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that I m not even worried about another person, because I don t even have the space in my brain to think about someone else s opinion, if that makes sense.
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Which I guess is nice.
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Yeah, it sounds great.
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It sounds good to me.
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It s a little nicer, yeah.
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It s bad when I write a really bad song, though.
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Because when I write a bad song, my worst critic is myself, and it s like, oof.
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What s the thought you think you repeat the most at those times?
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that I will never write another good song again.
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It goes to that extreme.
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Oh my God, in two seconds.
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And that everybody around me is lying to me and that everybody who is kind enough to work with me and put their time and energy toward things that I really want for my career and how sweet that is, that they re all making ginormous mistakes and this is all a leap of faith that they ve taken that they re going to regret.
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Immediately jump into that.
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Totally.
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And then how long would you sit in that for?
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A long time, a long time.
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Like this morning, again, good things were happening.
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And I was just like, in my head, I m just like, they re all lying to me.
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I m like, there s no way.
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Mind you, these are people who I trust and love and who are giving up time out of their lives to work toward a goal that I really want so deeply.
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Like these are lovely people.
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It has nothing to do with them and everything to do with me.
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SPEAKER_00
But yeah, I sit in that all the time.
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And then what gets you out of it?
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I just keep going, like resilience.
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And also just, I want it so bad.
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And I also like, I want to succeed for myself, but I also really want to like prove to everybody who is working with me or who believes in me, or even like consumes my music from two seconds of a song to like listens to everything I put out.
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Like I want to do well for those people.
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So I don t know, maybe like drive, things like that.
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Fear of failure really motivates me.
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Love her.
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Do all of these characters in your head have names and voices and hers and his and theirs?
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My God, they re all, they re all, they re all me.
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They re just all different versions of me.
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Like the like fear of failure is like,
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me as like a kid, I think, because I used to set such obnoxious goals for myself as a child, and it would keep changing.
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I would be like, if I m not Beyonce by the time I m 18, I have failed.
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Wow.
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SPEAKER_00
Insane.
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SPEAKER_00
It used to be things like that.
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And when I was really, really little, I d be like, if I am not on Disney Channel by the time I am 13, I might as well just end it all.
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Like they were just such extreme, extreme things.
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So they re just all different versions of myself that just kind of coexist or lack thereof.
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SPEAKER_00
They don t have that.
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And do you find yourself still repeating those audacious goals even now or?
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Oh my God, every day.
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Yeah.
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Every day.
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And let s be clear, they re things that I m not necessarily proud of.
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SPEAKER_01
No, no, I get that, yeah.
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It s coming across, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it.
1
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Okay, fabulous.
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SPEAKER_00
Because sometimes I ll say something and I ll be like, no, no, no, that s not how I feel, that is what I think, though.
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SPEAKER_00
Like this morning, these are great things that are happening, okay?
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SPEAKER_00
And we had a top ten debut album, and everybody s like, this is amazing.
1
SPEAKER_00
And in my brain, I was like, I could have done better.
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SPEAKER_00
Like all I could think of in my head was like, I could have done better.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I cried and I like beat myself up.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then I like kind of came to and was like, oh no, this is actually like very exciting.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then I would like go back down again.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know that movie Talladega Nights?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, of course.
1
SPEAKER_01
What a great reference.
1
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I was thinking of this.
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If you ain t first, you re last.
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That s all I think of in my brain, which is so silly and so stupid, and I wish I didn t feel that way, but I really do.
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SPEAKER_00
I really do.
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No, hearing you explain it, and I want to clarify what I was reaffirming with you, was hearing you explain it is a really good breakdown of how I think so many of us think.
1
SPEAKER_00
Totally.
1
SPEAKER_01
So hearing you articulate it with so much clarity, I m listening going, I know there are times when I think exactly the same way as that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
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SPEAKER_01
And I know everyone who s listening is going, in their own way, are thinking the same thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
And we all know how debilitating that is, because now number two is the same as 99.
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SPEAKER_01
Yes.
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SPEAKER_01
And it makes no difference.
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SPEAKER_01
And by the way, 99 is great, but 99 is not, you know.
1
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Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_01
So it just keeps going and it s a perpetual cycle, which can be so paralyzing.
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SPEAKER_00
Insane.
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SPEAKER_00
I also would never hold someone else to the standard that I hold myself.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I m very aware of that.
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SPEAKER_00
It doesn t change how I feel, sadly, but I never in my life would say to somebody, if they were like, my debut album debuted at 5,600, whatever, I d be like, that is amazing.
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SPEAKER_00
What an incredible amount of work, blood, sweat, and tears you and so many other people around you have put into this.
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SPEAKER_00
And this is an accomplishment that you should celebrate for years and years on end.
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SPEAKER_00
and believe every single word of that.
1
SPEAKER_00
For myself, I m like, could have done better.
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I should have done more.
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I m just immediately like, what should I have done better?
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SPEAKER_00
Which is silly.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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But it is a kind of like a human thing, I guess.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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And I think it s that almost, it s interesting, isn t it?
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It s like, that s the same mindset that will make you improve and get better.
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But it s the same mindset that can slow you down and drain you.
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It is also the lifestyle that I have been praised for by adult figures in my life since I was very young.
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That s where it comes from.
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Oh my God, absolutely.
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SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
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SPEAKER_00
I don t blame anyone or think this is a negative thing that somebody put in my brain, but I do always think of it.
1
SPEAKER_00
I used to finish basketball games or
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any sort of competitive thing that I would do, whether it was sports or some showcase for singing.
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And my first comment from my parents, who I love and who are so supportive, but my first comment from my parents would be like, okay, what could you have done better?
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SPEAKER_00
Even if I would have crushed
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SPEAKER_00
And so like that is honestly my thought every single time, which in a way is really great because I m always like trying to make myself better and also like hold myself accountable for places that I slipped up, could have done more, didn t do enough.
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SPEAKER_00
But then also it becomes this thing where you just like beat yourself up for every little like tiny place you could have had a little celebratory moment and congratulations internally that you then don t have.
1
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Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Very weird.
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It s almost like, taking that question, if all of us were first asked, what did you do great?
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What could you have done better?
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Oh my god, it d be great!
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SPEAKER_01
Like it just positions it so differently.
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SPEAKER_01
Like if someone said to you, what did you do great?
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And you as a kid were like, I think I did this right, and I think I got this right, and I think I did this right.
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Now you ve celebrated, you ve got a moment.
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What you were just saying earlier, you ve had a moment to
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celebrate and know yourself and know that you ve won and that you re powerful and great.
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And then it s like, okay, well, what could you have done better?
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And now it s like,
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Okay, now I have the tools.
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Absolutely.
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I have a balance of those two things.
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Exactly.
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Whereas if you don t have the what you did great, you only have the critical, judgmental, questioning.
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Oh my God.
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When I first started doing therapy, I was 20.
2
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So this is like maybe three years ago now, three and a half years ago.
2
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And I will never forget, like they would, therapists would like ask me, they d be like, okay, what is something you like, like about yourself?
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Or what is something you re proud of that you do?
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And I could not for years, like answer,
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that question at all.
2
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I would just start sobbing every single time, every single time.
2
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I was just like, I cannot compliment myself in any sort of the way, which sucks.
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Sucks.
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How about now?
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I can, I can.
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I do a better job of it now.
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What would it be?
2
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I love the people in my life really, really hard.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s amazing.
2
SPEAKER_00
Very glad, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s beautiful.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
You found it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes, woo-hoo, yay!
2
SPEAKER_00
No, and you ve attracted them.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, and they re the best.
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SPEAKER_00
And they ve attracted you, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s a two-way thing.
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It s like they re around you because they love you and believe in you, and you re around them because you love them and believe in them.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s special.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, I m going to definitely miss you on Sex Lives of College Girls.
2
SPEAKER_00
Your character is awesome.
2
SPEAKER_00
Me and my wife watch the show all the time and absolutely loved it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Thanks.
2
SPEAKER_00
You were just talking about earlier, acting was actually a space that made you feel a lot more anxious and everything.
2
SPEAKER_00
Was that the reason to switch over or what was it for you that made you go, you know what, I need to step away?
2
SPEAKER_01
No, I mean, to be honest, like, I inevitably, like, one day, I m, like, very excited to talk about it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I can t say a ton about it, being with the Stag Strike.
2
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That being said, acting to me was always just so scary.
2
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It was just so scary.
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It was just something I had no confidence in and thought I was just so, so, so terrible at.
2
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It was something that came later on in my life, at least to this point.
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Later on in my life, I was, like, 18, 19.
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that I just didn t think I could do.
2
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And it became like a really amazing opportunity to like get people s attention, to pay attention to me to do music, which I didn t feel like I was getting when I was younger, or at least it was harder for me to, but I just really, really wanted attention musically.
2
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And I wanted to like get signed and do like the whole thing.
2
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And when acting became a conduit for that,
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I just was like, okay, I guess I got to do this.
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I would be silly not to do this.
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I still felt so, so incredibly insecure around it.
2
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I just was like, I cannot do this.
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I was like, I m going to get fired from any job that I have when it comes to acting.
2
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So it s something I ve developed a love for
2
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now, later on.
2
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Actors are so, so, so thoughtful.
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So thoughtful and so like careful and articulate and like you really have to like rid yourself of like the judgment and I struggle so, so hard with that.
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So it s just something that I was always so insecure about.
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SPEAKER_00
That s actually a really powerful lesson though.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
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And I m glad you shared that detail because
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Most of us have one goal and we think there s one path to it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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And we re just walking in that direction.
2
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And often that door doesn t open at a certain age, at a certain time, at a certain point in life.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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But we don t realize that a pivot at that point, doing something that you re even massively uncomfortable with.
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Oh my God, so uncomfortable.
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But that s actually helped and been a productive and proactive use of time as an investment in doing what you really want to do, which I love that as a life lesson.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s incredible.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s huge.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
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No, it s, it s been the best.
2
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I ve like, not only like in a, in a career sense, have I
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I ve grown so much and learned so much and been able to work with really incredible people.
2
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I ve also met my best friends in the whole wide world.
2
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My best friend in the planet I met on a TV show, Aaliyah.
2
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And so it s given me a lot.
2
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And it s been a really, really big catalyst for my music career.
2
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And that is not at all lost on me.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s fantastic.
2
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What s been your most difficult insecurity to channel in music?
2
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Like what s been the hardest thing to actually communicate and express, and why do you think that is?
2
SPEAKER_01
It s interesting.
2
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I feel like I express most of my insecurities and things that I think pretty well, and it s pretty open.
2
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, I think you do.
2
SPEAKER_01
No, totally, totally.
2
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But even though I do, I still constantly feel like
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I m so not communicating anything well, anything at all, even though I know I do that.
2
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That is the entire basis of my songwriting, is exactly how I feel, and letting that go.
2
SPEAKER_01
Again, whether it be something I m proud of, this thought and opinion I have, or whether it s something that I m not proud of, but at the end of the day, that is how I feel, and that is my art, and that is the reason why I put it out there, whatever.
2
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I still judge every inch of it so harshly.
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I cannot let it go.
2
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I wrote a bunch of songs on my album and I m really proud of the things that I said and proud of the place that it comes from.
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And then I ll panic about having written it and be like, oh my God, I shouldn t have said that.
2
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That was so stupid.
2
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Like, is this like sending the wrong message or something?
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Or am I going against everything I believe in?
2
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And then I m like, no, that is actually just like how I felt in that moment.
2
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And like, not everything I say is like Bible and like how you should live your life.
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Please, God, don t.
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But like, I don t know.
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I communicate it all and I m proud of how I do.
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but I don t let that just be.
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Like that just never exists.
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So I can over communicate as much as humanly possible and still be incredibly insecure about what I m saying or like how it is received.
2
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Absolutely.
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2
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2
SPEAKER_00
just sitting with you for a few moments, I really feel like when you do describe what anxiety feels like, a lot of the time when people talk about anxiety, it sounds like here, or it sounds like here, like their chest is tight or they feel uncomfortable.
2
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But when I hear you speak about it, you speak about it from here, which really helps because it s kind of like making sense.
2
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There was one lyric that stood out that I wanted to share with you.
2
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I ll make it through the winter if it kills me.
2
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I can make it faster if I hurry.
2
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I ll angel in the snow until I m worthy, but if it kills me, I tried, if it kills me.
2
SPEAKER_00
And when I was, there was a couple of lines in there that I wanted to kind of break down with you, if that s okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, no, please.
2
SPEAKER_00
So one was, I ll make it through the winter if it kills me.
2
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And I was like, when do you feel like you re most in winter?
2
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Like when does it feel the coldest?
2
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In the moments of me getting so riled up and so panicked and freaked out about my career, my family, being a good friend, like when I m just like really, really, really, really, really, I don t know, just coming for myself, to be honest, I never feel like I m gonna like stop.
2
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Like I just always feel resilient.
2
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in a sick way, honestly, in a way that has really, really, really helped me, but is crazy.
2
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Sometimes I think about it and I m very confused.
2
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I genuinely don t know where it comes from or what it is, but I could be having the worst day of my life.
2
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And I would still be like, yeah, this sucks.
2
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And like, this is the worst day of my life.
2
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And I feel like a terrible person.
2
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And I feel like I ve done something really, really horrible.
2
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And I m still not going to stop what I m doing.
2
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Not that behavior, I guess.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m still not going to
3
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stop like making music or doing the thing that I love.
3
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And it s silly now in retrospect because I get it like your kids you say dumb things but like I would like post these singing videos online when I was in high school and like all these girls would like go on Twitter and like say how terrible of a singer I was and how I was just so silly and I looked stupid and I remember that so so well and I remember really hurting my feelings but at the same time
3
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I still kept posting videos.
3
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It wasn t like it didn t hurt my feelings, but I was like, you re not going to stop me from doing the thing that I love to do and that I want to do.
3
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So winter is always, but winter is resilient and snow angels as a whole is just full of resilience.
3
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Absolutely.
3
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What makes you feel worthy now?
3
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I feel worthy when the people around me are happy, which I guess is something inherently that s like, oh, that sucks.
3
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I should feel worthy when I feel good about myself.
3
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But I really do, at this point in my life, I feel worthy when the people around me are happy and proud of me.
3
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If I feel like the people around me are happy and proud of me and they re okay, then I feel okay.
3
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And that goes for our community and fandom too.
3
SPEAKER_01
If they like things and they feel good, then I feel good.
3
SPEAKER_01
And if they don t, then I don t feel good, which sucks.
3
SPEAKER_01
I know that s something I have to inevitably work on and find some sort of equilibrium to be balanced and stuff.
3
SPEAKER_01
Right now it s really just like, it sucks, but it s when other people are proud of me, then I am proud of myself.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t do well finding that internally, which is not ideal, but it is like what it is right now.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, and starting from where you are is the only thing you can do, so being honest about that and knowing where it s at.
3
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it s interesting both times, even earlier when we were like, you know, what are you proud that you have around you?
3
SPEAKER_00
You were like, yeah, the people.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then even now it s like the people.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes, now it really does go like, mmm, anything else.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, exactly, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
And there s something beautiful in that and it s the idea that
3
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What makes you worthy is that those people choose to be in your life.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Because they see you as worthy.
3
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
3
SPEAKER_00
And that, and it s like, if you can just connect that.
3
SPEAKER_00
I know.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like it s like that, but it s hard.
3
SPEAKER_00
Then you re good, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
But it takes a while.
3
SPEAKER_00
It takes a while for all of us.
3
SPEAKER_00
We ve all been conditioned, whether it s everyone around me matters, everyone around me doesn t matter.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like whichever way we are, we re all at some end of that spectrum.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
What are the experiences in your life that you think have made you become resilient?
3
SPEAKER_00
Like when did that,
3
SPEAKER_00
When did you start to look at your life and go, I ve been through a lot of tough stuff.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
And that s built up resilience.
3
SPEAKER_00
What were some of those events or what was a moment that you felt made you resilient?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s interesting.
3
SPEAKER_01
Whenever I start to like, again, like compliment or, or like, like pat myself on the back in any sense of the word, I get so like, my immediate like response to be frank was to be like,
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, I ve had it very easy, and da-da-da, and I m good.
3
SPEAKER_01
And don t get me wrong, I haven t many, many ways.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I think that, I feel like my resilience comes from two different things.
3
SPEAKER_01
A, things I actually go through.
3
SPEAKER_01
B, things that, like how I speak to myself.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m very resilient when it comes to how I speak to myself.
3
SPEAKER_01
If I had the inner monologue that I have that was from another human being,
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh my gosh, like that would suck.
3
SPEAKER_01
That would suck.
3
SPEAKER_01
But for whatever reason, I keep pushing through and keep going.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that doesn t really change that much, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Keep going.
3
SPEAKER_01
But like situations like for instance, like so Snow Angel, which was like the single of this album and is now like the album title and everything.
3
SPEAKER_01
is something that I ve talked about for months, really just being like, okay, this is a situation that happened to me and this is something that I ll eventually talk about, but I want you to have the song, sit with the song, interpret it in the way that you need and feel like it can sit on you so that you have it.
3
SPEAKER_01
because, like, the situation of that song, A, is something that I pray and doesn t, not something legit that everybody can, like, relate to in the sense that I went through it, which I m very glad about.
3
SPEAKER_01
But, like, that was a huge moment of resilience for me.
3
SPEAKER_01
And even writing the song, I feel like, was resilience.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then, in a way, holding back from then talking about it for a couple months was
3
SPEAKER_01
resilience.
3
SPEAKER_01
So it shows up in my life in a lot of different ways.
3
SPEAKER_01
But for that specifically, it was January, maybe late January, early February of 2022.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I had just gone through like a breakup and it was really tough.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it was like the first time I had ever been really in love with someone and then experienced like a breakup.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I had always I had been in relationships back to back for like five years.
3
SPEAKER_01
So my like later teen years were all that.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so at this point, I m 22.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I started like having like freedom in my life kind of for the first time.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I was living here in L.A.
3
SPEAKER_01
and I was like hanging out in a new group of people.
3
SPEAKER_01
And they were like they were partiers and they like really sent it, really sent it.
3
SPEAKER_01
I like had heard from like my family and like my friends around me that like
3
SPEAKER_01
this isn t really like a good group.
3
SPEAKER_01
We don t think for you.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that s not to say that these are bad people.
3
SPEAKER_01
Cause I, I don t, I don t believe that.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think that people can do bad things and be, so be good people sometimes.
3
SPEAKER_01
Um, a couple of them.
3
SPEAKER_01
Um, but I was, I was in this group of friends and we were just like sending it and it was the first time in my life where I wasn t working.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was fresh out of this relationship.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was just going there.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I think that I had,
3
SPEAKER_01
always had to really nail myself to the ground.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I had always been just so incredibly nervous.
3
SPEAKER_01
And for the first time, I just didn t.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I really let my judgment go when it came to the people that were around me.
3
SPEAKER_01
we were all out and it was just situation after situation where they were just not trustworthy and then like the next thing you knew I was face up like laying down in like a bathroom stall in a hotel bar just waking up like five in the morning like completely alone and I woke up and I was like I was just so confused and I had like
3
SPEAKER_01
blood on my pants and I was really just like so caught off guard.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I like looked down, I had my phone and my purse and I looked down and I was completely alone in a bathroom stall.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I looked at my phone and it was like five in the morning.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was like, what happened?
3
SPEAKER_01
I was like, I was out of like a party with like my friends.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I had missed two texts from two people that I was with at like 1030.
3
SPEAKER_01
the night before, which was like seven hours had gone by, that was like, hey, I guess you left.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, well, you know, see you when we see you.
3
SPEAKER_01
And mind you, I was dating somebody in the group at that time.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so I didn t go to this place alone.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I had like a boyfriend or a situation or whatever, somebody that I was at least with.
3
SPEAKER_01
that just was nowhere to be found.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so I still have no idea what happened, no clue what happened, but I was drugged and just like missing for like seven hours.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I stopped being friends with those people.
3
SPEAKER_01
and stopped doing as much partying as I was, and told my parents, told some of my friends, and just kind of explained it in like a really matter-of-fact way.
3
SPEAKER_01
And they were all very concerned, and I didn t really even understand what was happening, because again, I didn t recall anything that had happened.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then a couple months later, we really delve into it.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I kind of started to have to deal with everything that happened and was just crying and so upset and very confused and then resentful of those friends that I was with.
3
SPEAKER_01
But all that to say, then a year later, we wrote Snow Angel.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I had been saying to Alexander, who I did this whole album with, I really want to write a song about this.
3
SPEAKER_01
I recounted the situation so many times.
3
SPEAKER_01
And after like the 10th time of telling like a group of people that, you know, through maybe just music sessions that you were like drugged and you have no idea what happened and you were like kind of into drugs at one point, but you don t really want to talk about it, but you do want to write a song about it.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then just being like,
3
SPEAKER_01
Then you kind of stop wanting to write that song naturally.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I was like, okay, I guess I just won t write anything about this.
3
SPEAKER_01
Um, and then eventually Alexander like came back to me and was like, I really want to write that song that you were talking to me about.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I think you and I should just do it together.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then we started writing it and it was just the two of us.
3
SPEAKER_01
And frankly, the whole time we were writing it, I felt nothing, nothing.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like I was explaining all this stuff and I was like, yeah, and you can like reference, like the snow is whatever you want to reference it as and things like that.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I felt nothing at all until we like had recorded the song and the whole thing was
4
SPEAKER_02
done.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I played it for a bunch of my friends and my manager and everybody was like, this is insane.
4
SPEAKER_02
But for me, that whole year of my life was inherent resilience because not only was I like fighting through an experience, I have no idea what happened to me.
4
SPEAKER_02
lost friends, felt like I couldn t go out with anybody and trust anybody, and then was like trying to explain the situation in a way that I understood it, but I didn t really understand it, and then wanted to write a song about it and wanted to write an album about it, but was also afraid to be judged for having something like that happen to me.
4
SPEAKER_02
But it s also like, what did happen?
4
SPEAKER_02
So it was a whole thing.
4
SPEAKER_02
Up until we decided to name the album Snow Angel and have that be the song, that to me was all resilience because I was just kind of cold face, fighting through everything.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I still don t really know how I feel about it.
4
SPEAKER_02
I just know that I feel weird and very resilient.
4
SPEAKER_00
A new season of Bridgerton is here.
4
SPEAKER_00
And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m your host, Gabrielle Collins.
4
SPEAKER_00
And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
4
SPEAKER_00
Colin Bridgerton has returned from his travels abroad.
4
SPEAKER_00
Is Betrothal written in the stars for the eligible bachelor?
4
SPEAKER_00
Meanwhile, the ton is reverberating with speculation of who holds Lady Whistledown s pen.
4
SPEAKER_00
We re discussing it all.
4
SPEAKER_00
I sit down with Nicola Coughlin, Luke Newton, Shonda Rhimes, and more to offer an exclusive peek behind the scenes of each episode of the new season.
4
SPEAKER_00
Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
4
SPEAKER_00
Then fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
4
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Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday.
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SPEAKER_05
Guess what, Bango?
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What s that, Will?
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So iHeart is giving us a whole minute to promote our podcast, Part-Time Genius.
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I know, that s why I spent my whole week composing a haiku for the occasion.
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It s about my emotional journey in podcasting over the last seven years, and it s called Earthquake House.
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Mango, I m going to cut you off right there.
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Why don t we just tell people about our show instead?
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Yeah, that s a better idea.
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So every week on Part-Time Genius, we feed our curiosity by answering the world s most important questions.
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Things like, when did America start dialing 911?
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Is William Shatner s best acting work in Esperanto?
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Also, what happened to Esperanto?
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Plus, we cover questions like how Chinese is your Chinese food?
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How do dollar stores stay in business?
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And of course, is there an Illuminati of cheese?
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There absolutely is.
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And we are risking our lives by talking about it.
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But if you love mind-blowing facts, incredible history and really bad jokes, make your brains happy and tune in to Part-Time Genius.
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Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Hey everyone, this is Molly and Matt and we re the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart Podcasts.
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It s a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting.
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Like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone, and so much more.
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We re back with season two of the podcast, which means more opportunities to glow up and become a more responsible and better adult, one life lesson at a time.
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And let me just tell you, this show is just as much for us as it is for you.
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So let s figure this stuff out together.
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This season, we re going to talk about whether or not we re financially and emotionally ready for dog ownership.
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We re going to figure out the benefits of a high yield savings account.
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And what exactly are the duties of being a member of the wedding party?
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All that plus so much more.
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Let s learn about all of it and then some.
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Listen to Grown Up Stuff How to Adult on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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That s resilient for sure.
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Yeah, that s resilient.
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Yeah, for sure.
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I mean, have you ever been able to piece anything together from the night or not at all?
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Like just nothing.
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That s, that must be so.
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It s almost like so disconnecting from yourself.
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Very weird.
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Yeah.
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Very weird.
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Yeah.
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No, I have no idea.
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And I just stopped talking to the group of people.
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I was like, I don t, I don t want to know what you know or don t or what you claim to know or don t know.
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I just wanted to let it go.
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Yeah.
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What, what made you trust them in the first place that you now look back as a red flag and go, I should have been aware.
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I really wanted to have fun.
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I really wanted to have fun.
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I had just gone through this breakup and I had just changed a lot of my life.
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And I had just, you know, become visible in like a different way in the career thing.
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And I just wanted to like party and have a good time.
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I didn t go to college and I didn t have that experience like to like let loose and just like chill.
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And these were people that I saw were really partying too much, to a point.
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And I just, I wanted to have fun.
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And I wanted people who knew none of my friends, who knew nothing about my life, who didn t know my ex, who didn t know two exes ago, who knew nothing about me.
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And I was just like fresh new into the group.
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I don t know.
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It was just like, it was exciting to have a group of people that just did not care about anything else other than partying.
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Because I cared so much about everything else.
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I wanted that like level of just like escape and not dealing with it.
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And then I just escaped too far.
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Yeah.
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How did they react when you kind of started to disconnect?
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To be honest, like it wasn t a big deal.
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Like it was,
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It was nothing to them to lose a friendship like that.
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It wasn t a big deal to them.
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And that s whatever, I guess.
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The only time that I ever heard anything was when I started to really release music and started getting more attention for it.
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Somebody was like,
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You know, I would love to talk to you about, like, the time da-da-da-da-da. 
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And I m just like, no, you don t.
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Like, no, you don t.
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No, you don t.
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And I feel like that person obviously—I mean, you don t just disappear, like, randomly.
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You just don t.
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As far as I m concerned, I could be way wrong and silly for thinking that.
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yeah, it wasn t a big deal to them.
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It was just nothing.
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And I ve, I ve made peace with it to just be like, okay, if that is how you react to something like that happening to me, then you don t value my life, friendship and safety, um, in the way that I would value yours.
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So as best we just part ways and then we just never really talked again.
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That s hard as well to like, yeah, how does that feel to you now?
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I trust people really fast.
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And then when I don t trust someone, I don t trust them.
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And I think it s very jarring for people around me sometimes, but I m good at letting go.
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Very good at letting go.
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And I don t know if that s something that I m really good at because I ve been burned one too many times.
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I mean, I would rather be like with my group of friends now and like,
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not be at risk to like be left alone and hurt and have whatever happened happen, then like be with those people.
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Yeah, I think I m doing like pretty good in my life where I don t really feel like I need that.
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And also the idea of like wanting to party and have fun is not a bad thing.
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Yeah.
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But it s like, you know, it s a, it s almost, it s so that wanting to have a great time and your intention is like, Hey, I ve got through this breakup.
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I want to party.
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I want to have fun.
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Like that doesn t seem like a terrible thing.
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No.
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And, and I also, I was worried about how my friends and people who were immediate in my life would like view me for then having all this have happened to be like, yeah.
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Okay.
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So I was out with this group of people, X, Y, and Z happened, whatever.
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I was very scared about how that would look.
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How did they respond?
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They were, at the time, they were much more worried than I was aware of what was happening.
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Cause I really just brushed it off.
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And honestly, I think I was just in like, kind of like a fight or flight thing.
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Just like, okay, well this happens.
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Got to move on.
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To be honest, the next weekend I went to Coachella.
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Like I was just like, okay, whatever.
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Um, my friends were very concerned and were really weirded out.
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And we re, I guess, talking like amongst each other more so than to me, but we re really protective.
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Did you feel like you had to move on fast in order so that people didn t take it too seriously?
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Cause you wanted them to be okay with it and you didn t allow yourself to feel it.
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Yeah.
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I also really didn t want to know what happened.
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I didn t want to find out what happened.
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And still, yeah.
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Nope.
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Um, and in a way I kind of do, cause I also am like,
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Vengeful to be honest, and I like in a way want to know like who let what I you know But also I was just like okay move on like I don t want anybody
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to see me sweat in that way.
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Because then that would be admitting that something bad actually did happen to me.
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And I ve never had anything specifically like that happen to me before.
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And I thought it was a very, like a long shot of an idea.
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Like that s something you hear about happening to like girls and people out who like,
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get drugged and things like that.
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And that s not ever something that would happen to me.
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So I just, I wanted to move past it quickly.
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It s that denial as well.
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Absolutely.
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How has that changed your way of now having fun and being able to go out and being able to trust?
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Like how has that impacted?
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I have better friends now.
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Talk about that group.
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Yeah, I m very, I m very lucky.
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I have good people in my life.
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I also am really,
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I think I m a more honest version of myself.
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If I don t trust someone, they will know.
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And odds are they won t really be around me.
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But also, I used to want everybody to be my friend so badly.
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And don t get me wrong, I still kind of do.
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But I wanted everyone s approval in the worst way when it came to a friend group.
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I don t necessarily feel like that anymore.
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I feel like I got taken advantage of, obviously, a lot in many ways.
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But now I don t really feel like that happens to me as much.
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Yeah, it s almost like how far are we willing to go away from ourselves to get someone else s approval?
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Oh my God, I would have ran to the ends of the earth, yeah.
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Once you made that song, as you were saying, you were trying to put it in and you were trying to get your team finally, Alexander you said?
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Yeah, finally like, you know, understood and was listening and how did it then feel to put that out there in the world to then obviously you ve talked about it with your family, your friends and now for everyone to hear it, how did that feel?
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It was honestly weird for the first couple months because I was like, what I wanted was for the song to live on its own and have its own kind of existence without my experience attached to it so that people could take it in in a way that they weren t listening to the song and feeling like pity for me in a way.
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I wanted everybody to have their own experience with it.
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Because again, this is a very specific song.
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I also, however, would find myself like getting so frustrated, like wanting to like talk about it and just like blurt it out before I was like fully like
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not ready to, but like before I was ready to like actually like make this like, okay, this is a thing.
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Now the album is out.
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It was like a weird back and forth.
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Cause also I m still very like angry from the situation as much as I want to like move past it and push past it would, it would just float between like,
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I really like nobody knowing what this is about.
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And also, like, I want revenge.
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Like, you know what I mean?
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And revenge for me is just like talking about it, I guess.
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But yeah, it went both ways.
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I am, however, really, really, really glad that people got to sit with it and take their kind of experiences with it.
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But it was really interesting seeing people s interpretations of the song, because somebody was like, oh my god, yeah, when it s cold outside, it s brutal.
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And I was like, yeah, girl.
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I was like, that is amazing that you feel that way.
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I was like, art really is subjective.
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Yeah, it was weird for a minute.
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It was so weird.
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Have you ever had people reach out to you and tell you about their experiences of similar things happening?
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Nobody has, not that I ve seen anything, because I don t even feel like it s really suggested incredibly in a song, but unless you like know.
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You won t know.
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Yeah, you won t know.
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But I have, however, had a couple people talk to me about like their own experience with, because these are people who have been through some sort of like,
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drug or alcohol related like thing or what have you and been like, hey, look, I really, really like this song for my own reason.
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And I ve been in and out of X, Y, Z situation.
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And this has been really helpful for me.
5
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And there have been a couple of times where like, obviously, I haven t like said anything.
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But like, you know, when you re talking to somebody and you re like not saying exactly what it is, but like you can kind of both tell in each other s eyes that there s like something
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much deeper happening than what you re both saying.
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It s that kind of like camaraderie and like, I see you without like saying it.
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Yes, absolutely.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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Which has been really comforting.
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it s sad that you can connect on that or understand each other, but at least you feel understood and held in that moment.
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Totally.
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Thank you for sharing that with us.
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I mean, it s like, it s just, it s just, I mean, you know, I think that whenever we go through things, go through things where we don t have control and we don t have consciousness even, you know, what I speak of control, it s,
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it s so disconnecting from the self because you were disconnected from a period of time from yourself.
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What have been the things today that you feel connect you to yourself?
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Like what are the things that you love to do that make you kind of, you know, smile and laugh and, you know, bring joy to you?
5
SPEAKER_02
I love talking to people.
5
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I m such a extroverted introvert.
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Relating is my favorite thing in the whole world.
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And whether it s actually relating or having someone else or myself feel understood, even if it s not necessarily relating, I love that.
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I love writing songs.
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Writing songs is my greatest weapon in this life.
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It s my favorite thing in the whole wide world.
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And I also, honestly, the thing that I like love most in my life right now is like, I love watching my little brother grow up.
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That s kind of like a complete segue.
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But that s great.
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Yeah.
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He s like he s only a couple of years younger than me, but he s like totally my baby.
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And so I m like really trying to like cherish watching him like grow up.
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So, yeah.
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Again, it s like all the like people connections.
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I m like, I love the people in my life very much.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, my, my youngest sister s like five years younger than me.
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And so I remember like when she was born, I remember holding her and she s getting married in a month and she s 30 years old and it s just like such a, you know, it s, I feel the same way.
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Like she s like my baby and my baby s getting married.
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Like it s, it s a, it s a crazy feeling.
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It s insane.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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Is it, were you like a, like a, like an emotionally, that s kind of an invasive question, I guess, but were you like an emotionally available older, older sibling?
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I have a really good relation with my sister and like she sees me that way as well.
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And so, yeah, definitely.
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I would say I was.
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And I would say that as she got older though, I kind of intentionally, I wouldn t say distance myself, but I intentionally gave her space to build up those skills herself.
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And so I started.
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That s smart.
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I m not doing that with my brother.
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Well, you still have time.
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I m like, Charles, how do you feel about everything?
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That s actually very smart.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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I just realized over time where it was like, I didn t want her to wake up one day if I wasn t around or whatever it was, or even right now I live across the world.
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The idea that she didn t have the tools and skills herself.
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And I was really trying to help her build those tools and skills herself.
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That s cool.
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And I m really proud that she s been able to do that.
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And it s taken years of doing that.
5
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Sure.
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SPEAKER_00
But it s almost like I wish, it s almost like when, you know, when you first start riding a bike, you have the stabilizers and your parent push the bike.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then your parents stop holding on to the bike and you just have the stabilizer maybe fall off.
5
SPEAKER_01
Totally.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then you put the stabilizer and then they get taken off.
5
SPEAKER_00
But it isn t like your parent like pushing you on a bike like when you re 21 years old.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so I feel like,
5
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With mentorship, with coaching, with anyone that I work with, the goal is always how do they develop the tools themselves.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh that s cool.
5
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What kind of tools do you think you re wanting to pass on?
5
SPEAKER_00
What are the lessons?
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SPEAKER_00
Oh my god.
5
SPEAKER_00
Because there s only a two year gap.
5
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
You re like accelerating your learning.
5
SPEAKER_02
Oh my god, I know.
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I really want,
5
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God, my brother is so much like me in my worst and best ways.
5
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I just want him to not beat himself up so much.
5
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I went through so… Granted, I m telling you, I still absolutely do.
5
SPEAKER_02
I don t, however, to the extent that I used to.
5
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I used to beat myself up into bad, bad places.
5
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It was
5
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Again, I couldn t sit with myself.
5
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I couldn t say something that I was proud of, because every thought I had would be met with something else I didn t do.
5
SPEAKER_02
And I really want that for him, really, really badly, because I don t want
5
SPEAKER_02
I don t want anybody to beat themselves up the way that I beat myself up, Jesus Christ.
5
SPEAKER_02
It was exhausting.
5
SPEAKER_02
I can tell you firsthand, it s very exhausting.
5
SPEAKER_02
Nobody else should really have to go through that, I don t think.
5
SPEAKER_00
What age was that?
5
SPEAKER_00
Do you think you were like the harshest critic?
5
SPEAKER_02
Oh my God.
5
SPEAKER_02
I mean, I feel like it honestly just started, to be honest, when I started doing music and when I got signed, like in June of 2022, my life changed a ton, a ton, because also I was working in a environment with a bunch of people who were choosing to be there and choosing to show up for me and choosing to help support and, and, and foster the thing that I wanted so badly.
5
SPEAKER_02
And I felt like I had,
5
SPEAKER_02
Big support, okay
6
SPEAKER_01
I felt like I had big guns behind me, which was a huge, huge boost of confidence and also made me want to work really hard to prove to everybody that believed in me and was investing time and money, let s be clear, into me that I was worth it.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I don t know, I just felt really like uplifted and I hadn t really felt that in a lot of like working situations before.
6
SPEAKER_01
I felt like everybody actually really cared what I had to say for the first time, and I had never felt that, specifically in work, never.
6
SPEAKER_01
So it was really nice to have that.
6
SPEAKER_02
Wow.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_02
It s amazing, isn t it?
6
SPEAKER_02
It s like we re constantly looking again for that external just kind of like.
6
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God, always.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
Always.
6
SPEAKER_02
And it s hard.
6
SPEAKER_02
And it s.
6
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Always.
6
SPEAKER_02
We re so programmed that way.
6
SPEAKER_01
I write music for a living.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like, I make songs for a living for people to listen to.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like, you know what I mean?
6
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Like, in a way, that s inherently that.
6
SPEAKER_01
And that s not to say that I don t do it for myself at all.
6
SPEAKER_01
I absolutely do.
6
SPEAKER_01
But like, you know, I go to a concert to perform, not for people to not have fun and not enjoy it.
6
SPEAKER_00
When the Taliban banned music in Afghanistan, millions were plunged into silence.
6
SPEAKER_00
Radios were smashed.
6
SPEAKER_00
Cassettes burned.
6
SPEAKER_00
You could be beaten or jailed or killed for breaking the rules.
6
SPEAKER_00
And yet, Afghans did it anyway.
6
SPEAKER_00
This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol.
6
SPEAKER_00
The danger they endured.
6
SPEAKER_01
They said my head should be cut off.
6
SPEAKER_00
The joy they brought to the nation.
6
SPEAKER_01
You re free completely.
6
SPEAKER_01
No one is there to destroy you.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m John Legend.
6
SPEAKER_00
Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
6
SPEAKER_02
What do you think that
6
SPEAKER_02
When you were, obviously you didn t, you didn t go to college because you were trying to, you know, get into the industry.
6
SPEAKER_02
You were just saying that when you were young, you wanted to, you know, figure out the Disney thing or figure out this thing or whatever it may be.
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SPEAKER_01
Yes, absolutely.
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Like, imagine you were sitting with 10 year old Renee right now.
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What does she need to hear?
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I, similar to have lived with a lot of years of beating myself up,
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I used to just live with this inherent guilt and regret, like a cloud over me, just in a big way.
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And I used to think that, oh, I would tell my younger self to do this and this and this better, or this and this and this, or da, da, da, da.
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I am now really deciding to not regret
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any of it.
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That s not to say that I don t want to hold myself accountable for things that I ve done that aren t great or for things that I inevitably will do that are not good or that, you know, don t serve myself or other people.
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That s a separate conversation.
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This is more about I m really so incredibly proud of like such a lively, spunky, monstrous little like 10 year old girl who was so
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fearless, so fearless.
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Like I was a rambunctious kid.
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I was crazy.
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I was inviting everybody in the neighborhood to my concerts on the fireplace.
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I was forcing people to come and listen to me sing.
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I was screaming for people to pay attention to me.
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And I m really, really glad that I did that.
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And I, I would just say like, do everything how you feel like you re going to.
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And when you mess up, just listen to yourself that you ve, you ve messed up.
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Yeah.
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I would honestly just say like everything she did was great.
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Happy to be here in, in, you know, failures and wins.
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You ve talked about being so self-aware and you can hear it when you re, you know, when I m talking to you today, I m like, there s, there s such an awareness of who you are.
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There s such an awareness of who you are, what you re feeling at this stage in your life.
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What are you hoping to unlearn for the future and learn for the future?
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If there was one thing you had to unlearn that you ve developed and if there was one thing you had to learn, what would you say they are?
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I would say something that I would like to learn is how to like, I m so hyper aware of when I do this in situations and I try so hard not to.
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Whenever someone is talking about something that they ve experienced with somebody else, like if somebody has hurt their feelings, right?
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Like if my best friend is talking to me about someone who has hurt them or harmed them or done them wrong in the smallest or biggest sense of the word,
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all I can think in my brain is like, when have I done that in my life?
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And just start like spiraling down this like, I remember when I did that to so-and-so and like, I need to call this person and be like, I am so sorry for what I put you through when we were like four.
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Like, you know what I mean?
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And I really would like to not center myself in what somebody else is talking about.
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And it s not, at least it s not consciously a selfish thing.
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Like I m not actively trying to make
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my friend s grievance about myself.
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Totally, it s just automatic.
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But I do, and I hate it, because then I m also like, oh my God, now I m not as present with my friend who s being so sweet and vulnerable with me.
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And now I m doing a disservice to her by not listening to her fully and being so hyper-conscious of how I ve acted or how I could have possibly showed up that way.
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I really want to unlearn that.
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I m trying so hard not to do that.
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I hate when I do that.
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Granted, if I just keep beating myself up for it, then I m gonna do it for the rest of my life, and then I m never gonna give myself grace for it.
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Something that I want to, well, I guess that s kind of learning and unlearning.
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Another thing that I wanna learn or unlearn, I need a little more internal patience.
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I need internal patience.
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I need internal patience and external judgment really quick.
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I really need a lot of internal patience.
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I also need to not,
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give people who have hurt me or done me wrong as much slack.
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Like, it s okay to, like, say that, like, no, thank you.
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I m good at, like, being done when I m done, but it takes me a second.
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SPEAKER_02
Right.
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SPEAKER_01
You know?
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Yeah.
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Like, I think, like, with that group of friends, like, I should have taken maybe two things that happened before I ended up, like, face up, you know, before that.
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Yeah.
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It doesn t need to get to that extreme.
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Correct.
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Correct.
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SPEAKER_02
Those are great answers.
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Yeah.
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Those are great answers.
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How have you, how have you kind of navigated the, the, you know, again, we re talking about change.
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You ve talked about before, like, I think you were struggling with an eating disorder when you were 10.
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You ve talked to obviously about how you ve had the, you know, the gray area of your sexuality, like figuring that out.
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Like how have you got comfortable navigating like the gray?
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When it comes to eating disorders, I think at least, and this is not necessarily everyone else s opinion, but how I perceive it myself, is eating disorders are something that you are always going to deal with and always going to have.
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SPEAKER_01
Right?
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And this is not to compare it to alcoholism because it is in nowhere the same or different or whatever.
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It s not a comparison.
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But it is to say that like with alcohol, you can decide to put yourself in situations where there is going to be alcohol there or not.
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Or like you are going to decide whether to drink or not.
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You are never going to decide whether you can eat or not.
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You have to.
6
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You have to.
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And again, that is not to like put down or make little of alcoholism or any sort of struggle like that.
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SPEAKER_01
My dad has been sober my whole life, but is an alcoholic.
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And this is something we talk about constantly and try to better understand each other.
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It s hard with an eating disorder.
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That is just constantly going to be around you.
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You have to eat to survive.
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So that s a constant gray area for me.
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I feel like I talk about it every day.
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So it s always just like, how did I do with it today?
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Or how am I going to do with it tomorrow?
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It s like living in a gray area, which is really frustrating because I think to myself a lot, like I would love for this to be gone, but it is just not something that I m never going to deal with.
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If I want to continue to be alive, I m going to be eating and I m going to have food around me and that s going to make me feel
6
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crazy some days and out of control and insecure and really proud of myself and in full control other days.
6
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So there s a gray area with that constantly.
6
SPEAKER_01
When it comes to like sexuality, that s a whole other gray area that like, at least for me,
6
SPEAKER_01
I over the last like six or seven months have become less gray, at least right now.
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But I think this is going to sound so silly, but like I try to.
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And granted, this is also very easy for me to say, because like I am a queer person who like
6
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is still at the end of the day like a white woman and is cisgender and like I also am bisexual so like I m going to be in heteronormative relationships inevitably just based off of being bisexual potentially.
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I think for me it is easy to say but I try to like view like the gray area
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or times when I m struggling for a label.
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I ll go through conversations with my girlfriend constantly if I ll be like, I actually feel incredibly not bisexual right now.
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And it s silly, but there are things we talk about all the time, both of us with each other.
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And I m just going to try to view it as a little pink area.
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Like, it s all good.
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It s all cool.
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SPEAKER_04
It s pink.
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It s good.
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It s good whatever it is.
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Like, if I one day feel like this label or whatever or lack thereof does not suit me, then that s great and that does not suit me.
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And I m very fortunate to be able to make that decision and have that not affect my life in an incredibly massive way.
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A lot of other people are not, but I view it as a little pink area.
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It s just good.
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I m trying not to be so angry with myself about it.
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I struggled to like want a rhyme and a reason and a label and a season to make sense every single day.
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And I m just not there.
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And I don t think a lot of people are, so I think it s fine.
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Like straight people, at least as far as I m concerned, don t like wake up every day and are like, oh my God, what level of straight am I today?
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And then if you are one of those people, you re likely queer.
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So, you know.
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Yeah.
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We re so hardwired to be like, you have to choose an answer, right?
7
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I think whether it was school, whether it was parents, it was like, there was always one right answer.
7
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You had to figure it out.
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There were no other options.
7
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There was no gray.
7
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You re either right or wrong.
7
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And so I think we still live in the right or wrong.
7
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And so it s really hard to be like, well, if I don t have the right answer, I must have the wrong answer.
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But I know this isn t wrong because it s how I feel.
7
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So then how do I make it right?
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And it s so confusing.
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And so I love the pink.
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I love the pink.
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This is just a little pink area.
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I m just chilling in the pink.
7
It s nice.
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I love it.
7
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Renee, you ve been so vulnerable, so gracious, so kind with your time today.
7
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I m so grateful to get to know you today.
7
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And thank you for letting us into your mind.
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You know, I really feel when I was sitting with you today, I was like, you really just kind of opened up your mind and let us walk in.
7
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And I appreciate that because it s hard to do that.
7
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And I felt like you opened up some cupboards and some drawers, you know.
7
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Uh, but Renee, we end every On Purpose episode with a fast five.
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These final five have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.
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Okay.
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I may ask you to expand and I ll let you know.
7
SPEAKER_02
All right.
7
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So Renee, these are your final five or fast five.
7
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Question one, what is the best advice you ve ever heard or received?
7
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Integrity over everything.
7
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Okay, great.
7
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Second question, what is the worst advice you ve ever heard or received?
7
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I would just stop trying to care.
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My God, I used to hear that all the time growing up.
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God.
7
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Yeah, you are going to care.
7
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I m like, are you kidding me?
7
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Now I care more because I care about not caring.
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It s ridiculous.
7
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Oh God, that s a good one.
7
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We ve never had that on the show before.
7
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I like that.
7
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All right, question number three.
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What s a part of yourself that you re most deeply trying to love?
7
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This is very two things for me.
7
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First and foremost, my mistakes, things that I ve done that I don t agree with, the things that I ve done that I m not proud of, I m trying to make peace with them, I guess is a better word, and do better from them.
7
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And second, honestly, as somebody with incredible, incredible lengths of difficulty of eating disorders, my body and the skin that I live in and my vessel that I just operate in,
7
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Very, very hard for me, so hard for me.
7
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
7
SPEAKER_02
Okay, question number four.
7
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What s something that you think people value but you don t really value?
7
SPEAKER_04
Keeping it cool all the time.
7
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Oh, interesting.
7
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I m very pro and this is just who I am.
7
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I guess maybe how I was raised or how I work, I m not sure.
7
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I love to just let your emotions get the best of themselves sometimes.
7
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I think that s really important.
7
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At least it is for me.
7
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I m very, very anti keep it in and deal with it and try to regulate your emotions.
7
SPEAKER_04
I think that, like, if you need them to be big in a way, let them be big in a way that feels, like, safe and careful for, like, yourself and the people you re around.
7
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Because if not, then that s just so stupid.
7
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I was shamed for so many years—this is not a short answer—I was shamed for so many years of my life for being so hyper-emotional and crying so much and, like, getting angry so fast.
7
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And that is something I just, I don t value the like being quiet and like the controlling your emotions and keeping things at bay.
7
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I value like being very true to how you feel, whether that s a good feeling or not.
7
SPEAKER_02
That s powerful.
7
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
7
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And how have you found a way of doing that in a way that it doesn t, you said, you said a statement, you re like to be mindful of like, you didn t say mindful, but you said to be aware of how it affects yourself and people you love.
7
SPEAKER_02
Like, how do you kind of get that?
7
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Because sometimes, like you said, an emotion can be so big and so real and so visceral, but then how do you kind of, how have you found a way to do that?
7
SPEAKER_02
Or at least how are you trying to find a way to do that?
7
SPEAKER_04
I have in beating myself up less, I m not like a physical danger to myself, which is great because I used to like get really, really, really angry.
7
SPEAKER_04
And like, I would like, you know,
7
SPEAKER_04
So many people do, I don t know what it is or what it isn t.
7
SPEAKER_04
My dad and I have talked about this at length because he said he did the same thing as I did as a kid.
7
SPEAKER_04
But I would either bang my head against the wall or hit my arms or things like that, or tweak out or freak out.
7
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And the more I ve stopped beating myself up for it, and the more I ve just been like, oh, these are just things that I feel, and I feel in a really big way, and the more I m around people who allow me to feel in a big way, the less I hurt myself.
7
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the less I feel the need to bang my head against the wall.
7
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I feel like if I m around somebody who s like, oh, this is upsetting you, that s okay that that upsets you.
7
SPEAKER_04
I don t even get to that point.
7
SPEAKER_04
So for me, it s about the company I keep and the things that people are saying to me.
7
SPEAKER_04
That being said, I also know that certain people in my life, like my mom, for instance, is the greatest.
7
SPEAKER_04
My mom does not like to see me incredibly upset all the time.
7
SPEAKER_04
And that s not to say she can t deal with me upset, but that is to say that I m an adult and I know that I don t want to put my mother through turmoil every day by calling her and telling her the 10 things that upset me, because she lives 3,000 miles away from me and will panic.
7
SPEAKER_04
So it s about going to the right people.
7
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And I go to her, of course, but not in a way that is going to,
7
SPEAKER_04
upset her or hurt her day because I, you know, she s my mama, but yeah.
7
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_04
I think the company you keep is important.
7
SPEAKER_02
Fifth and final question, if you could create, we ask this to every single guest who s ever been on, if you could create one lore that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
7
SPEAKER_04
What s a lore?
7
SPEAKER_02
A lore.
7
SPEAKER_04
What is that?
7
SPEAKER_02
Oh, a lore.
7
SPEAKER_02
A lore.
7
SPEAKER_02
Sorry, my accent.
7
SPEAKER_02
My accent, yeah.
7
SPEAKER_02
I was like, a lore.
7
SPEAKER_04
What is a lore?
7
SPEAKER_02
No, like folklore.
7
SPEAKER_02
No, no, no, lore, lore.
7
SPEAKER_02
That is the right lore.
7
SPEAKER_02
A lore.
7
SPEAKER_02
A lore.
7
SPEAKER_02
A lore.
7
SPEAKER_02
No, no, no.
7
SPEAKER_04
No, say lore.
7
SPEAKER_02
I like it.
7
SPEAKER_04
Lore, yeah.
7
SPEAKER_04
What is one law or lore that I would like everybody to follow?
7
SPEAKER_04
I grew up in North Carolina.
7
SPEAKER_04
I grew up in the South.
7
SPEAKER_04
I would love a law where everybody was just not so hateful.
7
SPEAKER_04
Personally, I would love that.
7
SPEAKER_04
The town that I grew up in, you drive right out of the neighborhood, and that s a dangerous place for friends of mine to be in.
7
SPEAKER_04
I would love if we just maybe weren t
7
SPEAKER_04
incredibly hateful.
7
SPEAKER_02
That s a good law.
7
SPEAKER_02
Renee Rapp, everyone, Snow Angel, I m so grateful to have your time and energy and I know everyone s going to be streaming more and more and I can t wait to have you back on years from now and to learn more about what you ve unlearned, what you ve learned, what you ve gained, wisdom along the way, and to hear about your brother too.
7
SPEAKER_04
Oh my God, he s the cutest.
7
SPEAKER_02
Thanks.
7
SPEAKER_02
I love it, Renee.
7
SPEAKER_02
Thank you so much.
7
SPEAKER_02
And everyone who s been listening or watching, make sure that you tag Renee and I with the things that stood out to you, the words that came from her that meant something to you.
7
SPEAKER_02
Maybe you ve had similar experiences or things you ve been through that you want to share back with us.
7
SPEAKER_02
Please do tag both of us across TikTok, Instagram, and across any social media platform that you re using to make sure that we see it.
7
SPEAKER_02
Renee, thank you so much again.
7
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
7
SPEAKER_02
You re the sweetest.
7
SPEAKER_04
Oh my God, such a sweetheart.
7
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
7
SPEAKER_02
Such a pleasure.
7
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
7
SPEAKER_04
Appreciate it.
7
SPEAKER_02
If you loved this episode, you ll enjoy my conversation with Meghan Trainor on breaking generational trauma and how to be confident from the inside out.
7
SPEAKER_03
My therapist told me stand in the mirror naked for five minutes.
7
SPEAKER_03
It was already tough for me to love my body, but after the C-section scar with all the stretch marks, now I m looking at myself like I ve been hacked.
7
SPEAKER_03
But day three when I did it, I was like, you know what?
7
SPEAKER_03
Her thighs are cute.
7
SPEAKER_01
Hey everyone, this is Molly and Matt and we re the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart Podcasts.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting.
7
SPEAKER_01
Like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone and so much more.
7
SPEAKER_00
Let s learn about all of it and then some.
7
SPEAKER_00
Listen to Grown Up Stuff How to Adult on America s number one podcast network, iHeart.
7
SPEAKER_00
Open your free iHeart app and search
8
SPEAKER_00
Grown Up Stuff.