2
SPEAKER_01
 like probably every musician.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it's funny because people are always like, this is your thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, to me, they're like, how does your son have any performance?
2
SPEAKER_01
I'm like, well, he's human, but also I'm his mom, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
So it's not easy to learn this stuff from your mom.
2
SPEAKER_01
Of course.
2
SPEAKER_01
 But that's the one that works the best for him.
2
SPEAKER_01
I said, why would you go in to a performance situation, a musical performance situation, and assume they want you to fail?
2
SPEAKER_01
They don't want you to fail.
2
SPEAKER_01
They want to see you do well.
2
SPEAKER_00
They really want to be there.
2
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_01
So he says that's the one that helps him the most.
2
SPEAKER_00
And just having that thought in your mind before you enter that, they want the best for me.
2
SPEAKER_00
They want to have a good time.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Something I was nervous for a long time was public speaking.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I did a social challenge for myself where every week I went to Toastmasters.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And the first week I wrote out word for word my five-minute speech, which was called an icebreaker.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm not sure if you're familiar with Toastmasters or if you've been before.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And I remember saying to myself, I prepared for two weeks for a five minute speech.
2
SPEAKER_00
It was so terrified.
2
SPEAKER_00
Again, I was 24, going in to a room of really great speakers who were all much older than me, executives, professional speakers, and I chose that one.
2
SPEAKER_00
I went to five different Toastmasters clubs in Columbus, Ohio, and I chose that one because it was the scariest for me.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And I was like, I don't want to go to the easy place.
2
SPEAKER_00
I want to go to a place that's going to really challenge me.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it terrified me.
2
SPEAKER_00
I remember I wrote it out word for word, and I practiced it for a couple of weeks.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I could not look up the first time.
2
SPEAKER_00
I had to stay here, looking here word for word.
2
SPEAKER_00
 and dripping sweat, just humiliated and embarrassed.
2
SPEAKER_00
But luckily, they're there to give you positive feedback.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's not a bad crowd.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right, they are, that's true.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's not like I'm putting myself in front of critics that are really gonna make me feel bad.
2
SPEAKER_00
They're there to say, here's what you did well, here's what you can do better next time.
2
SPEAKER_00
 But I did that for a year until I felt like I had the confidence and I could go out and get paid to do it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And for years, I would go speak in front of big audiences and get paid well, but I still had a little bit of nerves.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, why have I not gotten rid of this?
2
SPEAKER_00
And I called one of my coaches, this was probably like five years ago, I called one of my coaches and I said, I don't know why I'm still nervous before these events.
2
SPEAKER_00
I've been doing this for so long, I shouldn't be, now I'm beating myself up.
2
SPEAKER_00
I shouldn't be nervous now.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And he said, the reason you're nervous is because you're still worried about what people think about you.
2
SPEAKER_00
You're still thinking of you, like making sure you remember that joke, or making sure you're funny here, or you don't mess up, or what if I forget this thing?
2
SPEAKER_01
You're thinking about that.
2
SPEAKER_00
And he was like, if you just put your attention on how can I be of service knowing I'm not gonna be perfect?
2
SPEAKER_00
How can I help and add value and entertain or educate knowing I'm gonna forget a joke, or knowing that the pause isn't gonna be there, or knowing that I'm gonna stutter?
2
SPEAKER_00
 Just let it go and just be of service.
2
SPEAKER_00
And when I came from that place, I was like, I'm just gonna serve.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I know I'm not gonna be perfect.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that has helped me let go of those nerves.
2
SPEAKER_00
I still feel like, you know, the excitement feeling, but it's more like, okay, every time I feel like I'm nervous or anxious, this is all about service.
2
SPEAKER_00
And my friend Rory Vaden says, it's hard to be nervous when your heart's on service.
2
SPEAKER_01
 That's so true, I love that.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so I just give your heart to the audience.
2
SPEAKER_01
That's the sort of, I mean, it's very related to this trust piece, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Like they want to get something out of this.
2
SPEAKER_01
That made me think of two things.
2
SPEAKER_01
One was, I once asked the person at HBS who I thought was like the best teacher.
2
SPEAKER_01
I said to her, when did you realize that you,
2
SPEAKER_01
 It's clear that she knows she's really good at this.
2
SPEAKER_01
When did you realize that?
2
SPEAKER_01
And she said, I went from being a good teacher to a great teacher the moment that I stopped thinking about what they were thinking of me and started just thinking about what they were thinking.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I cared about what they
2
SPEAKER_01
 I started watching their faces.
2
SPEAKER_01
Were they confused about something that I said?
2
SPEAKER_01
So it wasn't about me, it was about the content and helping them to learn.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I thought that was really good.
2
SPEAKER_01
Stop thinking about what they're thinking of you and start thinking about what they're thinking.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Why is that so hard for us to do in general?
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, I mean, it's back to that social rejection piece.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because we're environmentally, sorry, evolutionarily attuned to looking for signals that we're gonna get kicked out.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I don't know why we're still like that.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I don't know of a culture where people aren't like that.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's not like I can think of a society where people don't have that happening.
2
SPEAKER_00
So that was one thing you said you were gonna say.
2
SPEAKER_00
Do you remember the second thing?
2
SPEAKER_00
No!
2
SPEAKER_00
 That was a great example.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, no, I did remember actually.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's that people love, okay, so the best performances are performances that have never happened before and will never happen again.
2
SPEAKER_01
So in front of a live audience.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like when you go see a show, part of why I love The Dead, The Grateful Dead, The Dead and Company, is because they have never played the same show twice.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like every single show,
2
SPEAKER_01
 Thousands of shows is completely different.
2
SPEAKER_01
They've never played the same set list for the entire set list twice They always change it never.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes, and might be one song different and replaced, but it's really mixed up like it's really changed and there are all these jams in between so I mean There are just no two shows that are even close to being identical and that's part of what people love about it They don't yes, sometimes sometimes they forget the lyrics.
2
SPEAKER_01
I
2
SPEAKER_01
 But that's because they've got like, you know, 500 songs in their catalog, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
So, but nobody cares.
2
SPEAKER_01
In fact, like last year, I mean, sorry, last night at Chula Vista, Bob Weir forgot the lyrics.
2
SPEAKER_01
It just like for a minute and people loved it.
2
SPEAKER_01
The crowd like roared.
2
SPEAKER_01
They love that.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And they're cheering him on to remember it again.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and it's just like you're real.
2
SPEAKER_01
You're here with us.
2
SPEAKER_01
You are being here with us.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I always say give people an experience that has never happened before and that will never happen again.
2
SPEAKER_01
That doesn't mean you have to rewrite a completely new speech.
2
SPEAKER_01
But know that audience.
2
SPEAKER_01
Know who they are.
2
SPEAKER_01
And don't be over scripted.
2
SPEAKER_01
People want it to be a bit raw.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
 they remember the performance where somebody dropped their guitar pick and didn't have another one.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's like I got to see that thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, the mic went out and you had to scream or whatever, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Exactly, exactly.
2
SPEAKER_01
That's cool.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I think that making mistakes actually is not only not bad, but it makes you more human and relatable.
2
SPEAKER_00
More interesting.
2
SPEAKER_01
More interesting, right, and more memorable, for sure, more memorable.
2
SPEAKER_00
Identity came to my mind just now, and I'm curious about,
2
SPEAKER_00
 your research or just your personal findings on shaping our own identity with ourselves.
2
SPEAKER_00
Shaping our identity, having an identity, and how that either helps us or hurts us with our confidence and our personal power.
2
SPEAKER_01
 Well, I mean, there's so many different kinds of identities that we can have.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think that when we get, I mean, there's... Is it important to have a specific type of identity?
2
SPEAKER_00
Is it important to have a wide range of identities or things that we're into?
2
SPEAKER_01
Tell me what kind of identity you're talking about.
2
SPEAKER_00
 An identity is, you know, I'm a man from Ohio.
2
SPEAKER_00
I grew up in Ohio.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, I love football.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, I love park.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, all these different things that are likes, interests, and that we identify as.
2
SPEAKER_01
 Well, I think that the self-affirmation stuff is all about values.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so your identity is your values.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that, I think, is great.
2
SPEAKER_01
Being true to your values is great.
2
SPEAKER_01
The values I'm talking about are not values that need to be flexible.
2
SPEAKER_01
They can be wide.
2
SPEAKER_01
 But I think that when we get really identified with a certain group or interest, it can get dangerous.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I think first we stop thinking for ourselves and we start becoming much more concerned about remaining part of the group than about
2
SPEAKER_00
 our value, our personal value.
2
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so we compromise ourselves to be in the group.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think that that can be really dangerous.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like we're losing our sense of agency for sure, but also might be doing things that are not good.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like not healthy for us or for other people.
2
SPEAKER_01
So that I think can be, I think we need to stay in check around identity
2
SPEAKER_01
 in that way, just because it's what most people in the group are doing doesn't mean it's what I need to be doing.
2
SPEAKER_00
What is something we can do, I guess, to reflect on or give ourselves feedback on on a yearly or monthly or daily basis that supports that?
2
SPEAKER_01
I think, and this is not empirical, this is kind of off the cuff, but I've been thinking about this a little bit lately.
2
SPEAKER_01
 you know, thinking about what are my identity groups that I chose?
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, what are my chosen identity groups?
2
SPEAKER_01
And, you know, are there things that have happened in those identity groups that I don't agree with, but I didn't do anything to correct it, or I,
2
SPEAKER_01
 I kind of let it slide.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, how can I keep myself honest about these identity groups?
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, so... Because you may like The Grateful Dead, but there may be things that happen at the concerts that you don't acknowledge or you don't like.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes, exactly.
2
SPEAKER_00
You don't want to be, well, I'm never going to watch or support The Grateful Dead again because this happened.
2
SPEAKER_02
That's right.
2
SPEAKER_00
But how can I make sure, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
 I can enjoy a hobby and an interest, but not the identity of that thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
That's right, and yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I think that, yeah, there are things that happen at shows that I haven't been liking lately.
2
SPEAKER_01
We talked about this a bit, people being very territorial in the front space, which is called the pit, about their space, and being really nasty to each other.
2
SPEAKER_01
That kind of goes against, to me, the whole sort of essence of that community.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And I get angry about it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Part of it feels like righteous anger, like I want you to not be that way, but I also need to check myself.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don't want to contribute to the anger either.
2
SPEAKER_01
But it also doesn't, because it's imperfect, doesn't mean that I have to leave it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I get into that trap sometimes.
2
SPEAKER_01
I sort of get into the like, oh, there's something wrong.
2
SPEAKER_01
I probably shouldn't do this anymore.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I need to,
2
SPEAKER_01
 except that nothing's perfect, and I'm still allowed to love imperfect things as long as I'm checking myself.
2
SPEAKER_00
Does that make sense?
2
SPEAKER_00
I feel like I kind of, but yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, it makes sense, yeah, yeah, for sure.
2
SPEAKER_00
We talked about this a little bit earlier about the kind of fake it till you make it thing, but it's more of like facing it till you make it, I think, is how you reframe it, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
I say fake it till you become it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Fake it till you become it, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because it's hard to, well, it's,
2
SPEAKER_00
 Why is fake it till you make it harmful?
2
SPEAKER_00
If it's like, let me just keep faking and hopefully it'll happen.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think the problem, and it depends on how people interpret it, I realize, but the way I interpret fake it till you make it is kind of like, you know,
2
SPEAKER_01
 Sort of the slick salesperson who really does not buy what they're selling, but they're going to sell hard.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right, right, right.
2
SPEAKER_01
 and they're going to be faking, yeah, making it might be being promoted or making a lot of money, but they're still faking it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Faking it till you make it means faking it, getting the promotion and continuing to fake it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Fake it till you become it, and it's also about what you're conveying to other people.
2
SPEAKER_01
Faking it till you become it, the way that I
2
SPEAKER_01
 think of this is you're tricking yourself into believing in yourself, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
You're tricking yourself into, you know, like incrementally be a little bit more courageous.
2
SPEAKER_01
And eventually you become the person that you are in your mind's eye as your best self, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
So you're not becoming, you're basically, it's like,
2
SPEAKER_01
 I kind of think of it visually like you're this, we're not just shells, but think of yourself as a shell and you're sort of half full.
2
SPEAKER_01
Faking it till you become it is sort of filling that shell more and more and more until it's complete.
2
SPEAKER_00
You're partially up but you're not fully in.
2
SPEAKER_01
You're getting there.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Because imposter syndrome is a term that's been thrown around a lot in the last couple of years.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm hearing it all the time.
2
SPEAKER_00
Not everyone, but a lot of people are saying, I feel a sense of imposter syndrome, like I don't belong, or I'm not ready, or I don't have the, whatever.
2
SPEAKER_02
For me,
2
SPEAKER_00
 I felt like I had nothing at the beginning and I was just like I'm just gonna throw myself in and if it works great and if it doesn't I have nothing to embarrass myself because I had nothing.
2
SPEAKER_00
I was living on my sister's couch for a year and a half.
2
SPEAKER_00
I had no money.
2
SPEAKER_00
I didn't have a college degree.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I was like there's nowhere else I can go that's worse than where I'm at.
2
SPEAKER_00
 I didn't have anything to lose.
2
SPEAKER_00
I was just like, I have nothing to lose, so I'm going to throw myself in there and hopefully certain things happen.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I didn't feel like an imposter.
2
SPEAKER_00
I felt like I'm an experience and I need to figure out how to gain experience by learning skills, by finding mentors, by reading, by consuming content and developing more confidence.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Why has imposter syndrome become such a popular phrase?
2
SPEAKER_00
And is there a way to actually overcome it?
2
SPEAKER_00
Or are we always going to kind of feel like imposters if we're constantly growing?
2
SPEAKER_00
 There's a new thing that next year that I've never done that I'm gonna try to do, that I am an imposter, because I've never done it.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I'm gonna feel a sense of, oh, well, I've never done this, so here we go, if I'm growing as an individual, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
We should always feel it, in a sense.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I think, okay, to the question about, well, I don't know why it became, it's again, it's a catchy, it's a sticky, it's a sticky term to describe an experience that's pretty universal.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so it became, it's funny, because it's,
2
SPEAKER_01
 To social psychologists, it's a thing that we've talked about since the 1970s.
2
SPEAKER_01
Not that I was talking much in the 1970s, but it was coined in the 1970s, and so in academia, it's something we talk about.
2
SPEAKER_01
But it really got sticky in the last, I do think that I talk about it in the TED Talk, I think that was part of it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think there were some other books that came out that were talking about it.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And it just captures the experience so well, feeling like an imposter in your own life, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
But the interesting thing is that, well, first, the woman who coined the term, Pauline Clance, who was teaching at Oberlin at the time, in the 70s.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, Ohio.
2
SPEAKER_01
She, well, first of all, she said,
2
SPEAKER_01
 She says that she wishes she had not called it a syndrome, because a syndrome implies that it's pathological, and it's unusual, and it's actually so not unusual.
2
SPEAKER_01
There are different estimates, like 75 to 85% of people feel imposter syndrome.
2
SPEAKER_01
Also, women do not experience it more than men.
2
SPEAKER_01
Men are just less likely to openly talk about it, which is a burden.
2
SPEAKER_01
 I think are men, because they think they're the only ones feeling it.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then women get the burden of being like, oh, you always feel like imposters, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
So it cuts both ways in bad ways.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I don't think many people stop feeling it if they keep on trying new challenges.
2
SPEAKER_01
So in my book, I interviewed Neil Gaiman, the amazing author of many, many, many, many bestsellers.
2
SPEAKER_01
 super award winner.
2
SPEAKER_01
Part of why I interviewed Neil, he's a lovely human, but he's one of the only men who talked openly about having imposter syndrome.
2
SPEAKER_01
 I wanted to talk to him for that reason.
2
SPEAKER_01
Also he has a way with words but he said that in the beginning when he first started writing and was successful, he kept being afraid that somebody was going to come and tap him on the shoulder and be like, are you Neil Gaiman?
2
SPEAKER_01
And he'd say yes, I am.
2
SPEAKER_01
 say, oh, sorry, you know, we made a mistake.
2
SPEAKER_01
We're taking all this back.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then he said he finally got to the point, he'd written American Gods, which was like his big novel, he said, like that was the big, grand novel.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he said he thought he'd finally conquered imposter syndrome.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And he spoke to one of his mentors and said, I think I finally conquered this.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he said, I finally conquered writing a novel.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he said, you never conquer writing a novel, you just conquer writing the novel that you're writing.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so next time, so now a lot of his books have been turned into really wonderful television series.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he's a showrunner.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And that was a whole new thing for him.
2
SPEAKER_01
So he said, it just pops up.
2
SPEAKER_01
You see it on your desk.
2
SPEAKER_01
You're like, oh, there's the imposter.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he'll go away.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so you experience it every time you start something new.
2
SPEAKER_01
It just goes away faster.
2
SPEAKER_01
You don't get hung up on it.
2
SPEAKER_01
You don't become anxious about the imposter feeling.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And I think the more you're living your life and creating and building, if you can start to reflect on like, look at all the times I was feeling an imposter syndrome and look what I was able to create.
2
SPEAKER_00
And the results I got and the success or the impact that I had from making this thing or creating this thing, I can do it again.
2
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's like looking backwards to see the results.
2
SPEAKER_01
 Right, so you have this transferable sense of agency.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like self-efficacy is, I mean the way it's defined in psychology is like it's your belief that you're able to do this certain thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
 Agency is wider than that, and this feeling of being agentic.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think that when you conquer imposter syndrome again and again, that feeling does become transferable.
2
SPEAKER_01
And you're like, this is a totally new thing, but I've never been part of this rodeo, but I think I'm gonna be okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
You just know, okay, I've done this before many times, I can do it again.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And if not, I'll be okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'll survive.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right, exactly.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm curious.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm a big believer that self-doubt is the killer of dreams.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think when we doubt ourselves, we're not breathing correctly, we're shrinking, we're not taking the actions, we don't have the courage because we're just constantly in self-doubt.
2
SPEAKER_00
Do you think we can ever have too much self-belief?
2
SPEAKER_01
 That's a tricky question.
2
SPEAKER_01
First, I think what you call self-doubt, I think of as personal powerlessness.
2
SPEAKER_01
And what happens is that it activates what we call the behavioral inhibition system.
2
SPEAKER_01
 So it leads us to be more pessimistic, to be more fearful, to think more narrowly, less creatively, to not take risks, to see people as predators.
2
SPEAKER_01
It inhibits us in every way.
2
SPEAKER_01
 Even physically, like we can tolerate less pain when the inhibition system is activated.
2
SPEAKER_01
Feeling personally powerful activates the behavioral approach system, which does all the opposite.
2
SPEAKER_01
So it's like instead of seeing a challenge as a threat, we see it as an opportunity.
2
SPEAKER_01
Instead of seeing other people as potential predators, we see them as potential allies and collaborators.
2
SPEAKER_01
We feel optimistic instead of pessimistic.
2
SPEAKER_01
 Now, you could, you can get to the point of feeling too powerful.
2
SPEAKER_01
And, you know, in that case, I think that one of the things that that what we know that one of the things that happens is that people.
2
SPEAKER_01
 they're not as good at taking other people's perspectives.
2
SPEAKER_01
So they're not as good at perspective taking when they become really, and this is a lot about social power.
2
SPEAKER_01
So when people have both social power and personal power, they're not as good at taking other people's perspectives because they're.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean their feedback or their information or their ideas or.
2
SPEAKER_01
Just understanding what other people are like.
2
SPEAKER_01
Are feeling.
2
SPEAKER_01
Honestly, it's really more about social power.
2
SPEAKER_01
 As people gain social power, they're less dependent on others.
2
SPEAKER_01
When you have not much social power, when you're at the bottom of the hierarchy, you really need to be able to read other people's minds.
2
SPEAKER_01
You really need to understand what they're thinking because you're dependent on them.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And as you gain more power, you're less dependent.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so you're more likely to stereotype people.
2
SPEAKER_01
You're more you're less likely to be able to take their perspective.
2
SPEAKER_01
You just kind of forget what it feels like to be where they are.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I think that's that's a problem.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, I think, you know, there's a lot of research on overconfidence versus confidence and overconfidence is
2
SPEAKER_01
 even really fully understand like where it comes from and I don't I to me I don't think it is overconfidence I think it's a different thing altogether it's like ego yes or like arrogance you know it's an overconfidence arrogance is often
2
SPEAKER_01
 coming from a place of feeling threatened and defensive, and it's a smokescreen for insecurity, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
So yeah, I say it's a smokescreen for insecurity, and it's a way of deflecting, it's a way of preventing people from challenging you, because honestly, they don't find you pleasant.
2
SPEAKER_01
They don't challenge you because they don't like you, not because they believe you, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
So I always say confidence, not arrogance.
2
SPEAKER_01
Confidence allows,
2
SPEAKER_01
 allows room to be wrong.
2
SPEAKER_01
So you can hear people.
2
SPEAKER_01
When you're confident, self-affirmed, you know who you are, you're able to hear feedback.
2
SPEAKER_01
You don't feel like you have to steal the microphone all the time.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, confidence plus curiosity.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's like being willing to be, okay, I feel confident, but also I might have a beginner's mind.
2
SPEAKER_01
Totally, and if you're confident and you're excited about an idea, you should want that to be as good as it can be.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so if you're around people who are offering you good feedback,
2
SPEAKER_01
 Confidence allows you to hear the feedback, which I think is really interesting.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I love watching Shark Tank.
2
SPEAKER_01
I love reading the body language.
2
SPEAKER_01
Jonah, my son, and I used to watch this when he was younger.
2
SPEAKER_01
He loves reading the body language and guessing who's gonna do well.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I know you've talked to people about the body language of lying.
2
SPEAKER_01
It is so fascinating.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think this body language of arrogance is,
2
SPEAKER_00
 You can read it, you can feel it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and it's also, body language is also nonverbal vocal cues, like a certain way of speaking.
2
SPEAKER_01
But it's like, it's when they don't buy what they're selling.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you don't buy what you're selling, nobody's gonna buy what you're selling.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you don't believe your story, nobody's gonna believe your story.
2
SPEAKER_01
At least in the long run.
2
SPEAKER_00
How do you learn to buy what you're selling?
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, first of all, when people say,
2
SPEAKER_01
 How do I sell something that I don't believe in?
2
SPEAKER_01
I say don't.
2
SPEAKER_02
Don't sell it.
2
SPEAKER_01
You shouldn't be doing it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Go find a different vision.
2
SPEAKER_01
That's what I think.
2
SPEAKER_01
Find a different career.
2
SPEAKER_01
You can try, but I don't think you should.
2
SPEAKER_01
You need to check in with yourself about that.
2
SPEAKER_01
There are different reasons why we don't buy what we're selling.
2
SPEAKER_01
You could not buy what you're selling because you're actually self-doubt.
2
SPEAKER_01
You doubt your ability to sell anything.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that's different.
2
SPEAKER_00
 than the product or the vision you have.
2
SPEAKER_01
Or it's just not interesting to you.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's not something that you would use.
2
SPEAKER_01
But it's not that you think there's anything wrong with it.
2
SPEAKER_01
So there are a number of reasons that you can fix.
2
SPEAKER_01
You can learn to understand, well, this product really is helpful and valuable to these other people.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I need to understand their perspective.
2
SPEAKER_01
That makes you a more effective salesperson.
2
SPEAKER_01
 But there are also reasons that should lead you to go, I shouldn't be selling it.
2
SPEAKER_01
So you need to figure out, is it because I don't relate to it or I don't believe in myself or is it because there's something wrong with this thing?
2
SPEAKER_00
Who are the people on Shark Tank that you see after their one or two minute pitch where you're like, they're gonna get someone interested.
2
SPEAKER_00
If the numbers line up and everything works out just based on their body language, their belief, what do they have in common where you're like, yes, I would invest in them.
2
SPEAKER_01
 There are three kind of characteristics.
2
SPEAKER_01
The first is that you feel that they believe their story, that they just so deeply buy what they're selling.
2
SPEAKER_01
They really care about this.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it's with their body language.
2
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes they say it.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And I'm not sure that helps when they say, and I don't think they're necessarily lying when they say it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Saying it isn't, you can just feel it.
2
SPEAKER_01
They convey it with their body language.
2
SPEAKER_00
Their energy, their postural feedback, everything.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right, there's also, they're confident and not arrogant.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so they are open to feedback.
2
SPEAKER_00
 They're not like, this is the greatest thing in the world.
2
SPEAKER_01
Completely, like the arrogance is just, it just kills the whole, all the energy.
2
SPEAKER_01
Why would a shark want to invest if you're clearly not open to feedback?
2
SPEAKER_01
If you think you have all the answers, and if you start conveying that right away, you're out.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, why are you here in the first place?
2
SPEAKER_01
Right, so you have to buy what you're selling and convey that.
2
SPEAKER_01
You have to be confident and not arrogant.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And that is, like I said, you show your confidence through your openness, your willingness to be open.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's not insecurity.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's not like, oh, I mean, if you don't know the numbers, you're out.
2
SPEAKER_01
You do need to know the numbers.
2
SPEAKER_01
You need to know certain things.
2
SPEAKER_01
But you can't know everything.
2
SPEAKER_01
That's why you're there.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because you need support.
2
SPEAKER_01
Totally.
2
SPEAKER_01
And the last thing is that
2
SPEAKER_01
 their verbal and nonverbal language is synchronized.
2
SPEAKER_01
So what they're conveying with their words, the feelings they're conveying with their words, match the feelings they're conveying with their body language.
2
SPEAKER_01
And if you see somebody like,
2
SPEAKER_01
 trying to, you know, demonstrate like deep care in an issue, but their body language just doesn't line up with it.
2
SPEAKER_00
They're crossing their arms.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, exactly.
2
SPEAKER_01
Or if they're trying to convey, I don't know, like, you know, confidence, but they're showing fear.
2
SPEAKER_01
When we are, you know, fully present and just, you know, in it,
2
SPEAKER_01
 that stuff becomes synchronized.
2
SPEAKER_01
We're not scripting our body language.
2
SPEAKER_01
We're bad at scripting our body language.
2
SPEAKER_01
We're best at scripting our words, second best at scripting our facial expressions-ish, but below the neck, we forget about it all.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, people don't know what to do with their hands, for example, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
There was a 30 Rock episode about this, about not knowing what to do.
2
SPEAKER_00
I just remember there were so many,
2
SPEAKER_01
 Yeah, there's a whole episode about not knowing what to do with your hands.
2
SPEAKER_01
And people really don't pay attention to what they're doing with their feet and their legs.
2
SPEAKER_00
How important is body language with the feet and the hands when building trust and confidence with others?
2
SPEAKER_01
It's funny, have you ever had Joe Navarro on?
2
SPEAKER_00
No.
2
SPEAKER_01
Do you know who he is?
2
SPEAKER_01
Former FBI agent.
2
SPEAKER_00
 I want to have one, yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
You should.
2
SPEAKER_00
He's great.
2
SPEAKER_01
He's such a character.
2
SPEAKER_01
I love Joe.
2
SPEAKER_01
He's a great guy also.
2
SPEAKER_01
But he has many body language books, but one of them is called What Every Body
3
SPEAKER_01
 saying, which I love, it's clever, and you know he really gets into the nitty-gritty, but he says one of the things as an FBI agent, I think he did like counterintelligence, was
3
SPEAKER_01
 was to pay attention to people's feet.
3
SPEAKER_01
So if they, if you're questioning, and I'm not saying that this is, and I don't know what the empirical evidence is, but if somebody looks like, if their feet are turned away from you and they wanna run, he's paying attention to that.
3
SPEAKER_01
But it's more if their feet are turned toward you and they don't seem afraid, he's more likely to believe them.
3
SPEAKER_01
 That's the asynchrony.
3
SPEAKER_01
If they're like, I'm fine, exactly, and their feet are, so yeah, he thinks the feet are really important.
3
SPEAKER_00
More than the hands?
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, only because people are so unaware of what they're doing with their feet.
3
SPEAKER_01
So it's not that necessarily.
3
SPEAKER_00
You can hide your hands, you can put them in your pocket.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, exactly.
3
SPEAKER_01
They're just not thinking at all that my feet are gonna give me away, which is kind of interesting.
3
SPEAKER_01
 But also I think there's really a lot of evidence that being grounded is really important to how you feel, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
So walking around, if you're speaking or something, I'm kind of switching a bit here, but feet can really help you feel better.
3
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes people will stand with their ankles crossed,
3
SPEAKER_01
 or not totally balanced, like make sure that your feet, you feel that you're grounded and you feel that string, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
I have a friend named Rachel Kossar, who used to be a professional ballet dancer and a rhythmic gymnast, and she does body language training now.
3
SPEAKER_01
And she's really into that feeling of being grounded and how much that helps you.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, yes, you're connected to the ceiling, but you're also safe.
3
SPEAKER_01
You're connected to the floor.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like you're not gonna fall through it.
3
SPEAKER_01
 There's no trap door.
3
SPEAKER_01
Allow yourself to find energy in that feeling grounded.
3
SPEAKER_00
It's fascinating how many psychologists talk about body language and the power of body language to just improve the quality of your life.
3
SPEAKER_00
I know Jordan Peterson, I think in his book, 12 Rules for Life, I think one of the first rules is- Sit up straight.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, put your back straight.
3
SPEAKER_00
I've heard that, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Put your back up straight.
3
SPEAKER_00
It's like the rule for life.
3
SPEAKER_01
 Put your shoulders back.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right?
3
SPEAKER_00
It's just like, you'll have more confidence.
3
SPEAKER_00
You'll get more opportunities.
3
SPEAKER_00
People will like you more.
3
SPEAKER_01
It's like, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think that like the funny thing about sit up straight is that, you know, a lot of us heard it as kids.
3
SPEAKER_00
 from grandparents.
3
SPEAKER_01
But also I think part of it was because we were told to do it to show respect to others.
3
SPEAKER_01
And the thing is, it's actually more about showing respect to yourself.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like be self, you like that one?
3
SPEAKER_01
Sit up straight to respect yourself.
3
SPEAKER_01
And if you respect yourself, you're more likely to be able to respect others.
3
SPEAKER_01
You have to feel good about yourself to be able to treat
3
SPEAKER_01
 with sort of generosity and respect.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I think if we tell kids, well, if you sit up straight, you're gonna feel better about yourself, they're more likely to be open to that.
3
SPEAKER_00
You're gonna feel more confident, you're gonna love yourself more, you're gonna feel happier.
3
SPEAKER_00
You're gonna have more to offer others as well.
3
SPEAKER_00
When you respect yourself, like you said, you're gonna have more generosity, hopefully.
3
SPEAKER_01
So the whole sit up straight, you're being rude.
3
SPEAKER_01
If you don't sit up straight, kids are like, well, then I'm just gonna be rude.
3
SPEAKER_00
 It's so funny because our parents' story of make your bed in the morning was something that I never did until I actually went to a boarding school that was kind of similar.
3
SPEAKER_00
They graded you every morning in the dorm to make the bed at 6.30 a.m.
3
SPEAKER_00
It wasn't military, but it was just a strict kind of boarding school with rules and dress code and all that stuff.
3
SPEAKER_00
 And I remember just like, after that, when I went to college, I was like, I'm just gonna, you know, wake up and let the bed be messy.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then when I got to, I think it was like in my late 20s, I was like, I just don't feel good when I come back and look at a messy space.
3
SPEAKER_00
Let me try this out.
3
SPEAKER_00
Let me just start making my bed every morning and just spending two minutes, even though it's kind of a hassle, like, let me do this so I can come back and just feel at peace in my resting space, not messy.
3
SPEAKER_00
 And then I'm like, I wish I would've wrote the book, Make Your Bed, because that came out like five years later and became like this massive speech and phenomenon.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, what our moms told us growing up, you know.
3
SPEAKER_00
For me, I was like, this has gotta be a routine.
3
SPEAKER_00
Every time I don't make the bed, I feel like I have a sloppier day.
3
SPEAKER_00
I feel less productive, I feel less proud.
3
SPEAKER_00
 disrespected my sleeping space.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes, those little routines like that really help.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, that's the whole thing about being sort of neat is that it's self-respecting, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
And I mean, it also, I know there's, yes, it clears your mind, right, to not have to worry about clutter, but I think the self-respect piece is a big part of it.
3
SPEAKER_01
 Although for me, I was like an OCD bed maker as a kid.
3
SPEAKER_01
It wasn't good.
3
SPEAKER_01
If somebody sat on it, I'd be like, yeah, it was weird.
3
SPEAKER_01
Kids can go through OCD periods and not have it as an adult, but I definitely had some weird.
3
SPEAKER_00
You still have it as an adult?
3
SPEAKER_00
No, no.
3
SPEAKER_00
You can hug people and you can be messy.
3
SPEAKER_01
Sadly, I don't with the bed making.
3
SPEAKER_00
 Yeah, now you're messing bed, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
It's funny, because to me, being a grown-up is about having freedom.
3
SPEAKER_01
You're like, I'm gonna do what I wanna do now.
3
SPEAKER_01
I have a lot of flexibility right now, and my son called me the other day, it's like 10 o'clock, and he's like, are you still in bed?
3
SPEAKER_01
And I'm like, yep, and he's like, why?
3
SPEAKER_01
And I'm like, because I'm a grown-up, and I'm allowed to be.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I can do what I want.
3
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_00
 So funny.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I love that.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it's more of like, what are the routines that are gonna help you be optimized for that day and that season of life?
3
SPEAKER_00
There's certainly months where I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna sleep in and I'm not gonna do what I know I could do to be optimal performance, but that's the season where I need right now, rest, recovery season.
3
SPEAKER_00
 So it's being okay with that as well and not being so militant like every moment.
3
SPEAKER_00
Which I think that's not helpful either.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
You're too obsessed.
3
SPEAKER_00
No, for sure.
3
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
3
SPEAKER_00
Gotta hit every routine all the time and every minute.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, absolutely.
3
SPEAKER_00
Wake up in the same, you know, that's a lot.
3
SPEAKER_01
They have to be your routines that work for you.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was talking to a friend of mine who was an Olympic skier and a national
3
SPEAKER_01
 national champion in women's downhill.
3
SPEAKER_01
No, her name is Alex Wubbles and she's a fascinating person because she also, she had a second wave of fame.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, she was pre-downhill skiing getting a lot of attention, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
So that was like 98 to 2002 was like her era.
3
SPEAKER_01
Her maiden name was Schaefer.
3
SPEAKER_01
So anyway, but her married name is Alex Wubbles.
3
SPEAKER_01
 She became famous again about five years ago because she's now an emergency room nurse.
3
SPEAKER_01
And she was working at a hospital in Utah, the University of Utah.
3
SPEAKER_01
And there was a car accident.
3
SPEAKER_01
There was a patient.
3
SPEAKER_01
She specialized in burn victims.
3
SPEAKER_01
 He was badly burned, he was unconscious, and a police officer wanted a blood sample from him to see if he had alcohol in his system.
3
SPEAKER_01
 By the way, it turned out he did not, and it was the other person who was drunk, but really not the point.
3
SPEAKER_01
The point was that you cannot take a blood sample unless you have a warrant or verbal permission.
3
SPEAKER_01
And he- He was unconscious.
3
SPEAKER_01
Right, so he couldn't give verbal permission, and they did not have the authority to do it.
3
SPEAKER_01
And she was defending this man, and it,
3
SPEAKER_01
 nobody else really was.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, they were kind of being bystanders.
3
SPEAKER_01
And she was doing exactly by the books what she was supposed to be doing.
3
SPEAKER_01
Her voice is shaking.
3
SPEAKER_01
She's clearly really scared and not getting support.
3
SPEAKER_00
Is this on video or something?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, sorry.
3
SPEAKER_01
It's all on video.
3
SPEAKER_01
And this police officer, eventually, he's just...
3
SPEAKER_01
 This is this is not a statement about police officers.
3
SPEAKER_01
This is just an agitated guy Okay, and he was just like I'm gonna get this blood sample, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
he throws her against the wall and handcuffs her and throws her into his cruiser and Arrests her and she's screaming.
3
SPEAKER_01
It's like 90 degrees outside the way it's a it's a really upsetting scene And she absolutely did the right thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
So she became
3
SPEAKER_01
 you know, known as, you people, as a super brave person and who, which she is.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I knew I wanted to interview her for my next book.
3
SPEAKER_01
 But I didn't know her.
3
SPEAKER_01
I'm giving a talk at the Association of Critical Care Nurses.
3
SPEAKER_01
It's like 10,000 people.
3
SPEAKER_01
It happened to be in Boston.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I did, I think, the longest book signing line of my life.
3
SPEAKER_01
Nurses really relate to this material.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think.
3
SPEAKER_00
Great anatomy, it's been on there five times.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think that there's a lot of power stuff going on in healthcare.
3
SPEAKER_01
It's tough.
3
SPEAKER_01
 They're exhausted, and anyway, I did the sign-in line, and there's one, and I was really tired.
3
SPEAKER_01
I loved sign-in lines.
3
SPEAKER_01
I love talking to people, but I was, like, exhausted.
3
SPEAKER_01
After five hours, you're like, okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was a few hours, and there was one last person, and she was with a man, and the man walks over, and as she approaches, I see who it is, and he says,
3
SPEAKER_01
 I don't know if you know who this is and I just like, I started crying.
3
SPEAKER_01
She's crying.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like I knew exactly who it was.
3
SPEAKER_01
We embraced, I mean, we just like held on to each other and she's like,
3
SPEAKER_01
 you mean so much to me, like you've helped, your work has helped me so much and I'm like, I am such, you know, I'm such a fan of you and I wanted to reach out to you.
3
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, it was Alex Wubbles.
3
SPEAKER_01
I did not know at the time that she is, she was an incredibly good skier, you know, and national champion many times and I love skiing.
3
SPEAKER_01
 Anyway, it turned out that we lived in Park City for seven months through the pandemic, and she lives very close by, and we've got to be very close friends during that time.
3
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, what's interesting is that she's a physically brave and socially brave person.
3
SPEAKER_01
To ski like that...
3
SPEAKER_01
 Also, she's the nicest person on earth.
3
SPEAKER_01
She would give us ski lessons and be like, well, what do you want to achieve today?
3
SPEAKER_01
Just for fun.
3
SPEAKER_01
My husband wanted to be able to get his hips on the ground.
3
SPEAKER_01
She's like, we're gonna make that happen.
3
SPEAKER_01
And by the end of the day, she's cheering for you.
3
SPEAKER_01
She's a great person.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I said, what are the similarities?
3
SPEAKER_01
Going down the mountain, 70 miles per hour,
3
SPEAKER_01
 and being brave in that situation and she said for her it's about like following her own kind of rule book.
3
SPEAKER_01
She said the best skiers are not skiers who who have like a one-size like take a one-size-fits-all approach like you know
3
SPEAKER_01
 You know, Lindsey Vonn, you know, she likes fashion, she likes style, and people were really critical of that.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it's like, she's gotta be able to be who she is to be the best at what she does.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, why are you bothered that she likes to wear makeup and, you know, have nice clothing?
3
SPEAKER_01
Why does that bother people?
3
SPEAKER_01
 The more she was able to be who she was, the better skier she was.
3
SPEAKER_01
And Alex said it was the same for her.
3
SPEAKER_01
The more she was able to do it her way, and she had a coach who recognized that.
3
SPEAKER_01
She needed an off day before races.
3
SPEAKER_01
 And he was like, OK, I'm not going to force you to write.
3
SPEAKER_01
I realize that for you, you're going to perform better if you can do it that way.
3
SPEAKER_01
The bravery thing, there's this, she said, for me in that moment, I knew that I could not live with myself if I did not.
3
SPEAKER_01
This was just the right thing to do.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I had no question.
3
SPEAKER_01
 There was no question that I was going to do this.
3
SPEAKER_01
And she said, I was following my rulebook.
3
SPEAKER_01
She said, to me, that's what's important.
3
SPEAKER_01
I knew that that justice was important.
3
SPEAKER_01
Justice in this sense of protecting this man's freedom and his rights.
3
SPEAKER_01
And she said,
3
SPEAKER_01
 I just knew that, and I knew when I was skiing that I had to do it my way, and that allowed me to be brave and perform at my best.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I think that that's really important.
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SPEAKER_01
You gotta figure out what are your, again, it's back to what are your values, and how can you be true to them?
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SPEAKER_01
But she's just, yeah, she's pretty wonderful.
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SPEAKER_00
 I feel like I could talk to you for another few hours, but I wanna bring us home here and we're gonna have you back on when the book comes out and have you on for another long session where we're both recovered from surgery and yes.
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SPEAKER_00
I feel like actually the pain has been going away throughout this.
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SPEAKER_00
I feel like
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SPEAKER_00
 Earlier in the day, the pain was heightening, but with you, I feel like I've just been so excited about learning this, that this information has been so powerful.
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SPEAKER_00
I've got so many notes here.
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SPEAKER_02
Oh, good.
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SPEAKER_00
So I'm just excited to go back through all this stuff.
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SPEAKER_00
Before I ask the final couple of questions, again, I want to thank you, Amy, for being here.
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You're welcome.
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SPEAKER_00
This is really inspiring.
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Thanks for making this work.
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I've heard so many great things about you from all mutual friends over the years, so I'm glad we were able to make this work.
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SPEAKER_00
 How can we, before I ask the final questions, how can we be of support to you right now?
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SPEAKER_00
What's the thing that we could do to, is there somewhere we can go on your, what social media are you most active on, your website?
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SPEAKER_00
Can we opt in for your newsletter?
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SPEAKER_00
Can we get your books?
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SPEAKER_00
Is there a speaking tool you're doing?
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SPEAKER_00
What can we do?
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SPEAKER_01
You know, follow me on social media.
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SPEAKER_01
I'm on LinkedIn for sure.
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SPEAKER_00
Is that your main place?
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SPEAKER_01
 It's funny, I have the most followers on LinkedIn, and I don't post that often, because I wanna post really good, longer, high-quality content on there.
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SPEAKER_01
Twitter, Instagram, keep up with me on social media.
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SPEAKER_01
Amy Cuddy everywhere, right?
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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For me, it's just be brave.
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SPEAKER_01
That would make me really happy, and it's okay if you say,
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 Tag me when you do it.
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SPEAKER_01
I want to see it happening.
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SPEAKER_01
But when you see, for example, somebody being bullied on social media, the way to handle that is not to attack the person attacking them.
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SPEAKER_01
It's say something nice about them in the comments.
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SPEAKER_01
Like support them.
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It could be totally unrelated.
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SPEAKER_01
Just say, you know, say you see something
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SPEAKER_01
 somebody being, you know, trolled or whatever, and there's a pile on because that looks like the norm.
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SPEAKER_01
So more and more people are doing it.
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SPEAKER_01
Change the norm by being nice.
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Say, hey, so and so, you know, I really like that thing you shared last week, and this is how it helped me.
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SPEAKER_01
 And it's amazing, what you'll see is more and more people will start being positive.
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SPEAKER_01
That's a way of being brave.
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Be the one to make the first positive comment, to turn things around.
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SPEAKER_01
I love that.
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SPEAKER_01
That would make me feel supported.
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SPEAKER_00
Okay, cool.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so if you're on Instagram,
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SPEAKER_00
 Make sure to share this and tag Amy.
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SPEAKER_00
Again, Amy Caddy over on Instagram.
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SPEAKER_00
Tag her that you're watching this or listening to this over on YouTube.
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SPEAKER_00
Leave a comment below.
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SPEAKER_00
Leave something positive about this.
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The thing that you enjoyed the most about this over on YouTube as well.
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SPEAKER_00
Okay, there's a question.
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 that I ask everyone at the end, it's called the three truths question.
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SPEAKER_00
So it's a hypothetical question.
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SPEAKER_00
Imagine many years away, it's your last day on this earth.
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SPEAKER_00
You've lived as long as you want to live and you accomplished all the dreams and you have the life you want.
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SPEAKER_00
 But for whatever reason, everything you've ever created, your written word, this video, content, has to go somewhere else.
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SPEAKER_00
It's not on this earth anymore.
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SPEAKER_00
So it goes when you go.
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Hypothetical.
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And the only thing you get to leave behind are three truths.
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Three lessons that you learned that you would share with the world.
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What would you say would be those three truths for you?
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SPEAKER_01
Oh my gosh.
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Yes, off the cuff.
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SPEAKER_01
Oh my gosh, this is really hard.
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 The whole haters gonna hate philosophy, like the idea that people are just, there are just bad people and people are just gonna be bad, don't buy into that.
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SPEAKER_01
Just keep trying.
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The only thing that makes that absolutely true is if we believe it's absolutely true.
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So keep trying to be a better person, to model better behavior, to be optimistic about people, to have grace.
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 I think that's the most important one.
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SPEAKER_00
Okay, that's number one.
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SPEAKER_01
The second is, I'm going to quote Maya Angelou, stand up straight and realize who you are, that you tower over your circumstances.
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SPEAKER_01
 So that is, again, Maya Angelou, not me, but I love what it captures, which is carry yourself with a sense of pride and self-respect, and you will become more self-respecting, and you will treat others better.
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That's the second.
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SPEAKER_01
 The third, I think, is we just leave room for people to be weird.
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SPEAKER_01
You know what?
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SPEAKER_01
Let people let their freak flags fly.
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SPEAKER_01
Don't put people in a box.
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SPEAKER_01
Let people be different.
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Appreciate it.
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Just stop judging.
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Do your thing.
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Let your freak flag fly and let other people do the same thing.
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If they're not hurting other people, give people space to be themselves.
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Absolutely.
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SPEAKER_01
 That's it.
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Those are powerful.
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I love those truths.
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Before I ask the final question, Amy, I want to acknowledge you for all that you've done, all the research, all the work, all the giving back to serve people and helping them gain confidence.
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SPEAKER_01
Thank you.
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SPEAKER_00
And improve the quality of their life.
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That's what my mission is with the School of Greatness, is to help people improve the quality of their life.
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SPEAKER_00
And it's to bring people on like yourself that I've been inspired by for a long time to teach what you know.
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SPEAKER_00
You have this information, this knowledge,
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SPEAKER_00
 from deep research, practical experience, and teaching it to so many people that this audience could really use.
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SPEAKER_00
So I'm grateful for your consistent dedication.
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SPEAKER_00
I'm grateful for you being weird and starting to express that more on social media in the world and accepting that socially by posting the stuff that is unique to you, the things that you love, and reminding us that we need to continue to be unique to ourselves as well and be willing to share that.
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SPEAKER_00
 And I acknowledge you for the generosity you have with so many people.
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SPEAKER_00
Again, I have so many mutual friends that say you're an incredible giver, incredible, kind human being.
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SPEAKER_00
So I really acknowledge you for the impact you've made on my friends and the person you've become.
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SPEAKER_00
So hopefully we can be friends after this and have you back on many times.
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SPEAKER_00
And I want to see you continue to spread this message far and wide.
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SPEAKER_01
Thank you so much.
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SPEAKER_00
What a pleasure.
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SPEAKER_00
It's been great.
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SPEAKER_00
 My final question is what's your definition of greatness?
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SPEAKER_01
I think greatness is, I think people might think of it as sort of about being the most, sort of the best, the most competent.
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SPEAKER_01
I think it's a combination of being, yes, your most sort of effective self, but also your most generous self.
3
SPEAKER_01
So greatness has to combine those two qualities, right?
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SPEAKER_01
It's about being both generous and capable.
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SPEAKER_00
 Thank you so much for listening.
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SPEAKER_00
I hope you enjoyed today's episode and inspired you on your journey towards greatness.
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SPEAKER_00
Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links.
3
SPEAKER_00
And also make sure to share this with a friend and subscribe over on Apple podcasts as well.
3
SPEAKER_00
 I really love hearing feedback from you guys, so share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most.
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SPEAKER_00
And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.
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SPEAKER_00
And now it's time to go out there and do something great.