0
SPEAKER_00
No way.
0
SPEAKER_00
What s up, dude?
0
SPEAKER_00
What s your name?
0
SPEAKER_00
You gotta be kidding me.
0
SPEAKER_00
How s it going?
0
SPEAKER_00
It s good.
0
SPEAKER_00
I m Salmon.
0
SPEAKER_00
Your name is Salmon?
0
SPEAKER_01
Not really.
0
SPEAKER_01
That s my, like, gamer name, I guess.
0
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
0
SPEAKER_00
What games do you play?
0
SPEAKER_00
In what arenas are you known as Salmon?
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh, man.
0
SPEAKER_01
I game so much.
0
SPEAKER_01
I play Destiny.
0
SPEAKER_01
Ooh, I m so nervous right now.
0
SPEAKER_01
Play World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy, a whole bunch of MMOs, stuff like that.
0
SPEAKER_00
What level are you in World of Warcraft?
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh, you know, just max level.
0
SPEAKER_01
All over the place here.
0
SPEAKER_01
Hold on.
0
SPEAKER_01
I m going to a different room where there s... Babe, I m on the phone with the therapy gecko.
0
SPEAKER_00
So, Salmon.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
0
SPEAKER_00
It says here that you are a real licensed therapist, and that you hate your 18-month-old baby.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
0
SPEAKER_01
So, yeah, I m a real therapist by state.
0
SPEAKER_01
I got my degree last May, and yeah, got my license, and I ve been seeing clients.
0
SPEAKER_01
I ve worked in the field for a long time, like 10 years, mental health and addiction and trauma and stuff.
0
SPEAKER_01
I love it, man.
0
SPEAKER_01
Being a therapist is super fun.
0
SPEAKER_00
Can I ask you something?
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
Does anyone ever get better?
0
SPEAKER_00
Hell fucking yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
Really?
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
Really?
0
SPEAKER_01
Dude, totally.
0
SPEAKER_00
Can I hear an example?
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I ll just start with me.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like, so I, I got sober when I was 16.
0
SPEAKER_01
So I got into recovery, um, when I was 16 and super gnarly depression, like suicidal, um, really gnarly anxiety, you know, childhood trauma, addiction, family addiction, stuff like that.
0
SPEAKER_01
So, I mean, when I got into recovery, I like, I hit it pretty hard as far as like, um, you know,
0
SPEAKER_01
going to meetings, being in 12-step recovery, but also going to therapy.
0
SPEAKER_01
I started going to therapy when I was probably 18 or 19 because I was in recovery and I was meditating a lot and exercising, kind of doing all the wellness stuff to combat depression and anxiety, but nothing was really working.
0
SPEAKER_01
Nothing I was doing on my own.
0
SPEAKER_01
when my own willpower was working.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, fuck it, dude.
0
SPEAKER_01
I need to go to therapy.
0
SPEAKER_01
And my therapist, I found this therapist that was super badass.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like, it kind of worked out to where I was able to afford it, because he had a sliding scale.
0
SPEAKER_01
He was this really good trauma therapist.
0
SPEAKER_01
And we did trauma therapy, and dude, it helped a lot.
0
SPEAKER_00
How old are you now?
0
SPEAKER_00
27.
0
SPEAKER_00
27.
0
SPEAKER_00
So, I mean, you ever... Alright, and I don t want to discount your story, because you have a good story.
0
SPEAKER_00
But I m talking like, you know, I feel like at 16, 18, it s very like, everyone, not everyone, but like, it s very easy to, nah, nah, nah, it s easy, but, you know, changing your life at 16, 18 is one thing.
0
SPEAKER_00
Do you ever get like, like a broken 35 year old man,
0
SPEAKER_00
who turns it around.
0
SPEAKER_00
Dude, totally.
0
SPEAKER_01
Tell me about that.
0
SPEAKER_01
So, granted, I ve been an individual therapist for less than a year.
0
SPEAKER_01
So clients that I ve worked with, you know, I haven t been working with for more than a year.
0
SPEAKER_01
But for example, I ve got a client, I won t give too much detail, but really intense,
0
SPEAKER_01
sexual trauma, um, and a lot of complex trauma from childhood up into adulthood.
0
SPEAKER_01
And in a relatively short period of time with, so I do EMDR, which is a type of trauma therapy.
0
SPEAKER_01
She s made progress and it s, you know, it s, it is a slow game, but ultimately like the little games are, are pretty awesome.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like,
0
SPEAKER_01
Moments of hope, moments of shifts of perspective, where a client will be able to move in and out of that hopelessness way more, with way more flexibility.
0
SPEAKER_01
And that shit s awesome, man.
0
SPEAKER_01
Just ride that out.
0
SPEAKER_01
So why do you hate your baby?
0
SPEAKER_01
If my wife listens to this, just for the record, I don t hate my baby anymore.
0
SPEAKER_00
I have a proof.
0
SPEAKER_00
You texted me.
0
SPEAKER_00
I m gonna read it.
0
SPEAKER_00
You said... Wait, you texted me like seven things.
0
SPEAKER_00
Hold on.
0
SPEAKER_00
You said... I accidentally... No, no, no.
0
SPEAKER_00
Don t be sorry.
0
SPEAKER_00
This is not something you need to apologize for.
0
SPEAKER_00
You said, I had an exorcism while on vacation in Mexico.
0
SPEAKER_00
We might get to that.
0
SPEAKER_00
You said I hate my 18 month old Baby, why do you I by the way?
0
SPEAKER_00
I just want to say this um a few people in the chat said how could this man hate a baby?
0
SPEAKER_00
And I think those people are idiots that have never met babies before because babies They re not they re not they re not cool guys.
0
SPEAKER_00
You know, but you might have a different reason.
0
SPEAKER_00
So you go ahead you You tell me what s up?
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh, man, it s been so hard.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like, yeah, my wife and I, my wife s a little bit older than me.
0
SPEAKER_01
And she, she became ready to have a baby a little bit kind of before I was like, she already had her degree, she already had her career.
0
SPEAKER_01
And it s kind of just like, alright, let s do this.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I was super resistant, super fearful about it.
0
SPEAKER_01
And yeah, just like kind of self centered.
0
SPEAKER_01
Um, but all basically like everyone in my life that I trusted and looked up to was like, dude, you just gotta send it.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like, it ll be worth it.
0
SPEAKER_01
You know, don t, don t live from this place of self-centeredness.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, yeah, hell yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like I love her so much.
0
SPEAKER_01
Um, so it s not worth like, you know, people get divorced over that shit.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like,
0
SPEAKER_01
That s just like no way like I love Patricia so much and I have Had this like, you know Career like faith that it would work out and it would be okay And I kind of thought like sure I don t really love babies in general But I bet whenever I have my own kid, it ll like override that the people are like, oh my god.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s like there s you know, like people are you know, it s like the kid is born and I ve never
0
SPEAKER_01
Felt so much love immediately.
0
SPEAKER_01
I was like, yeah, fuck it.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like it ll probably be like that.
0
SPEAKER_01
Right, dude.
0
SPEAKER_01
No, like, um, it was wild.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like we didn t, we didn t do the whole, like find out the sex of the baby.
0
SPEAKER_01
So like in my mind it was, there, there were going to be like a blonde haired girl just cause like, I don t know, that was just the vibe.
0
SPEAKER_01
And
0
SPEAKER_01
He s a redheaded boy.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, who the fuck is this?
0
SPEAKER_01
It was so scary, dude.
0
SPEAKER_01
And the actual process was terrifying.
0
SPEAKER_00
What was the actual process?
0
SPEAKER_01
Like, the birth was super complicated.
0
SPEAKER_01
It was scary, like health wise.
0
SPEAKER_01
And my wife was like, I don t know, had some difficulties, had some like,
0
SPEAKER_01
preeclampsia, um, which is scary, like blood pressure shit.
0
SPEAKER_01
And it was an emergency C-section.
0
SPEAKER_01
And like, I was just like watching her on in the operating room, like, and I m just like, she s going to die.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I like all the, I could like see her blood going into a fucking vacuum thing.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I was so scared.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like, I was like, she s going to fucking die.
0
SPEAKER_01
I felt like I was going to pass out.
0
SPEAKER_01
And like, the surgeons are just like, you know, they re just like at work.
0
SPEAKER_01
They re just like, they could be working at Starbucks making a fucking coffee.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like they re just like talking about shit.
0
SPEAKER_01
I m like, dude, I m about to pass out.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so it was super scary.
1
SPEAKER_00
And like, we were in the hospital for eight, eight days, um, just cause there was a lot of medical issues.
1
SPEAKER_00
And, um, we both felt similarly, like we were just like, felt disconnected from this baby.
1
SPEAKER_00
Um, and it did not have, we didn t have that like rush of endorphins that people get, um, sometimes.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it was really hard, dude.
1
SPEAKER_00
So when we were in the hospital, that was the day that my master s program started.
1
SPEAKER_00
So I started grad school in the hospital, my first classes I took in the hospital.
1
SPEAKER_00
So it was so stressful.
1
SPEAKER_00
And yeah, it was just really hard.
1
SPEAKER_00
So the reason that I texted that is because, I mean, it s an exaggeration, but I have been, it s been really hard for me to bond with him.
1
SPEAKER_00
Um, because of my own, just like avoidance, my own fear, a lot of like resistance to joy.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think like that part of me that is still depressed still, I still have that, like,
1
SPEAKER_00
you know, that depressed part that comes up.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s like, you know, it s just part of my experience.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think that part of me is like, don t love that baby.
1
SPEAKER_00
You don t want to love that baby.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, like it s just like that resistance to joy and love.
1
SPEAKER_00
Um, so that s just what I ve been working with the past year and a half is like just practicing letting go of the idea that I want my life.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, I want to be able to do whatever I want.
1
SPEAKER_00
that type of thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I don t know, embracing it.
1
SPEAKER_00
And honestly, like, I feel like I texted you like 1000 times once I realized that I could try to actually talk to you.
1
SPEAKER_00
And genuinely in the past two months, it s gotten like way better.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t know if it s like a shift within me.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, dude, and I ve been doing a lot of therapy about it.
1
SPEAKER_00
So there s another example of how it s helped.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, I ve been able to feel less
1
SPEAKER_00
hopeless, feel a lot more hope and really like notice those moments of joy with him or he s doing something funny or I allow myself to like laugh and it s like we re connected.
1
SPEAKER_00
Last Saturday was actually, or not last Saturday, like maybe four Saturdays ago was one of the first days where we were together all day and I just vibed.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like we just hung out.
1
SPEAKER_00
Connected, I didn t feel super self-centered, like I didn t have all these, like, I m gonna do whatever I want, thoughts.
1
SPEAKER_00
It was just like, alright, I m over with this baby, like, this is the grind and, like, a practice.
1
SPEAKER_00
Fuck, dude.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yesterday we were at the park, and it was fun.
1
SPEAKER_00
He and I just walked around, we went on a little hike.
1
SPEAKER_00
He s 20 months now.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m really making an effort to bond more with him.
1
SPEAKER_00
I have this like, kind of like fire under my ass of like, oh shit, like, I want him to like me.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like I need to be there for him.
1
SPEAKER_00
He needs me.
1
SPEAKER_00
I can t just have this like resistance, this aversion to loving him.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, dude, it s been so hard, but.
1
SPEAKER_02
So you say it s been, it s gotten better in the past two months.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s gotten a lot better.
1
SPEAKER_02
How has it gotten better?
1
SPEAKER_02
In what ways has it gotten better and how did you achieve those ways?
1
SPEAKER_00
So I think I did a lot of, this is a good example.
1
SPEAKER_00
So the birth was super traumatic for me.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was very afraid and I just was in this like hyper-vigilant state and then went immediately into being in grad school and full-time stay-at-home dad.
1
SPEAKER_00
So I never had a chance to really like process the trauma of the birth.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so I did end up going back to therapy.
1
SPEAKER_00
So like about probably like five months ago, I started going to a perinatal therapist who does like trauma work for like births and shit.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I think that really, really helped.
1
SPEAKER_00
So like, I didn t have the like, the physical reaction of the PTSD.
1
SPEAKER_00
from the birth whenever I thought about it, like the overwhelm, like I was able to like let that go, process it.
1
SPEAKER_00
So now I m more present.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m more able to be present with like the truth of what s happening just in the present moment.
1
SPEAKER_00
So what it looks like is just me being able to experience both joy and like extreme discomfort.
1
SPEAKER_00
very fluidly and flexibly throughout the day.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s like one moment, he s super happy.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m super happy.
1
SPEAKER_00
We re hanging out.
1
SPEAKER_00
Next moment, he s fucking freaking out because he wants oatmeal.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we have to go and I get super overstimulated.
1
SPEAKER_00
And but it s like, OK, I can hold both of those things now.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, it s OK.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s OK for me to have to feel this unpleasantness because I know that
1
SPEAKER_00
It s worth it.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s huge for me, like being able to think like, it s worth it because I know we re going to connect later and that would be special.
1
SPEAKER_02
Have you always felt a sort of like, I guess, aversion to happiness?
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah, dude.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t know what is up.
1
SPEAKER_00
Dude, I got a fucking dude.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you should see the fucking drawings I drew as a kid, like as a little kid.
1
SPEAKER_00
I drew the most like demented fucking creepy drawing as a little kid.
1
SPEAKER_00
And yeah, like I started, I had my first like real suicidal thoughts in sixth grade.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like I just, there was just this part of me that hated life.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was just really overwhelmed.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m afraid of feeling joy, like, you know, just in that, in that space.
1
SPEAKER_00
So that s kind of always been there.
1
SPEAKER_00
Hmm.
1
SPEAKER_02
And so this is a process of you, like, accepting that you should be able to feel happiness.
1
SPEAKER_02
And not only that, but you re also, it s not just for you, you know, of course it s not just for you.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s for the wellbeing of, of, you know, another person that you re in charge of as well.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think so.
1
SPEAKER_02
Oh, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
So, um, has your ability to start so you say in this past two months has gotten better.
1
SPEAKER_02
So as your ability to start feeling joy, interacting with your child leaked out to your ability, like as it has it increased your ability to start feeling joy and other realms of your life as well.
1
SPEAKER_01
Hmm.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know, I think not necessarily because, man, today I can feel some joy.
1
SPEAKER_01
I can feel some joy about stuff.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, and I think, yeah, man, like I love, I love life now.
1
SPEAKER_00
Even though there s always going to be that darkness, like I don t become that darkness anymore.
1
SPEAKER_00
I just am able to be with it.
1
SPEAKER_00
You can come along for the ride.
1
SPEAKER_00
But that s why, like, to the whole, like, not being able to feel joy with him has been so disturbing.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because I feel like I ve historically been able to, like, overcome challenges, like mental health challenges and shit like that.
1
SPEAKER_00
This has been a real doozy.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it s probably going to be a doozy for the next, like, ideally, like, I don t know, however many years I ll be alive, but I ll probably, hopefully be a parent for that amount of time.
1
SPEAKER_02
So you ve accepted that, so this is an interesting thing, I ll get into it, but you ve accepted that this is gonna be a doozy for the rest of the time that you are alive.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Dude, that s a hard thing to accept.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s a hard thing to accept, because I ve been thinking about this a lot.
1
SPEAKER_02
Dude, I ve been thinking about this a lot.
1
SPEAKER_02
I m pretty much your age.
1
SPEAKER_02
And, you know, I often really do feel like I m depressed and anxious all the time and carrying a rock.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I saw this comment on Reddit.
1
SPEAKER_02
I might have talked about this on the podcast already.
1
SPEAKER_02
I ve just been talking about it to my friends.
2
SPEAKER_00
I saw this comment on Reddit that said something like, people think that when they turn 30, there s going to be this crazy magical thing, or they re going to explode, or they re going to feel different, and the truth is, it just keeps going.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I read that, and I was like, oh no, I find such great solace every day in imagining like a fucking version of the future,
2
SPEAKER_00
where I m not as anxious and I m like, you know, all these problems are kind of gone.
2
SPEAKER_00
And what if it just never happens?
2
SPEAKER_00
And what if I m just like dealing with shit?
2
SPEAKER_00
This is why I m afraid of getting older, because I m like, oh, what if I m just dealing with shit forever?
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, I talk to people on the podcast and I read on Reddit and all this stuff of like people in their like, you know, 30s and 40s and 50s who are going through
2
SPEAKER_00
these problems and I m like, sometimes I m just like, God damn, man.
2
SPEAKER_00
That sounds exhausting.
2
SPEAKER_00
Just problems like forever.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, do you, do you ever feel that way?
2
SPEAKER_00
I m like, Oh my God.
2
SPEAKER_00
How, I m just going to, how are you not tired?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I have felt that way.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t feel that way very much anymore.
2
SPEAKER_01
I get it though.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like I truly relate.
2
SPEAKER_01
I truly relate to that.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I hear it a lot.
2
SPEAKER_01
Actually, one of my friends is, I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_01
Go ahead.
2
SPEAKER_01
No, you go ahead.
2
SPEAKER_01
Um, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
One of my friends is like hella suicidal right now.
2
SPEAKER_01
And similarly, like, just feels like this is going to be this way forever.
2
SPEAKER_01
Um, and I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I think you, if you have a lot of that self-awareness of like noticing whenever your mind is going to the like, well, maybe one day I won t feel this way.
2
SPEAKER_01
Um,
2
SPEAKER_01
But it s like a, that s a good indicator of looking at, okay, what s happening right now.
2
SPEAKER_01
And, you know, in this moment that is leading to this sense of dissatisfaction and what is it, is it that longing that is causing this dissatisfaction?
2
SPEAKER_01
Is it a physical thing?
2
SPEAKER_01
Do I need to eat?
2
SPEAKER_01
Is it a lack of connection?
2
SPEAKER_01
Do I need to be with a friend?
2
SPEAKER_01
Um, am I burnt out?
2
SPEAKER_01
Do I need to change what I m doing?
2
SPEAKER_01
It s like all comes to what is happening in the present moment that needs tending to like, how can I be kind to myself or be kind to another person as a response?
2
SPEAKER_01
Because like, yeah, dude, we re never like the future.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I don t know, maybe in like a fucking quantum physics sense, it exists.
2
SPEAKER_01
But right now it s like, it doesn t exist.
2
SPEAKER_01
And what usually whenever we re thinking about the future, we re maybe this is obvious, but we re
2
SPEAKER_01
There s something happening right now that we don t like, or we re afraid of, or we re like, you know, holding on to, but it s already going away.
2
SPEAKER_01
And the good news is it s like, we can just let go.
2
SPEAKER_01
And the practice and like, you know, what can become kind of fun is like figuring out how can I let go right now in a way that will give me some freedom.
2
SPEAKER_01
Um, but it s not easy.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s dude, it s not easy.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, is there anything fun going on with you?
2
SPEAKER_01
Hell yeah, dude.
2
SPEAKER_00
Fucking war.
2
SPEAKER_00
Let s talk about that before we go.
2
SPEAKER_00
Let s talk about some fun stuff.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, no, this was fun.
2
SPEAKER_00
This was good.
2
SPEAKER_00
This was, this was, uh, this was good.
2
SPEAKER_00
This was good.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I m glad to hear that you re, uh, it sounds from the way you re talking to me that these struggles are, are on a positive upward trajectory towards being, um,
2
SPEAKER_00
dealt with and handled, you know, by you in a way that makes your life better.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m happy to hear that.
2
SPEAKER_00
How does your wife feel about all this stuff?
2
SPEAKER_00
You talk to her about all this?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I definitely do.
2
SPEAKER_01
She knows.
2
SPEAKER_01
She knows the struggle.
2
SPEAKER_01
And she s supportive, man.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, she s just patient and wonderful.
2
SPEAKER_01
And she knows me and is really patient with me.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I ve definitely tried to not let it leak out too much because it s like sucks for her to be with somebody that s like me It s so hard all the time, you know, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s the thing That s the way that when you re dealing with a partner is you got to like at us, you know You want somebody who you can lean on emotionally?
2
SPEAKER_00
But also you got to you know, kind of step it the fuck up so that she s not dealing with that all the time Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah Tell me about those fun things Man
2
SPEAKER_01
It s warm now, so I feel just more hopeful in general.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s fun to be outside.
2
SPEAKER_01
I love doing Muay Thai.
2
SPEAKER_01
I love boxing, MMA, shit like that.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I ve been doing that a ton.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s been fun.
2
SPEAKER_00
Should I get into that?
2
SPEAKER_00
Do you recommend that?
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, dude, it s the best.
2
SPEAKER_01
Muay Thai especially because it s like, it s the perfect mix of like, there s a lot of humility to it as it s very like,
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s not a lot of like macho bros.
2
SPEAKER_00
Can you get fucked up doing it?
2
SPEAKER_00
I let I I want to do it.
2
SPEAKER_00
I want to do more like physical hobbies.
2
SPEAKER_00
That ll get me in better shape.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I just don t want to get like my nose broken.
2
SPEAKER_01
No, dude, that s the great thing about Muay Thai is like, okay, so I ve gone to boxing gyms, I ve gone to MMA gym, where you just get the absolute shit beaten on you.
2
SPEAKER_01
It sucks.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, like, I m like, I don t want to do that.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t want to do that.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s not like that.
2
SPEAKER_01
You can go to beginner classes and just learn the techniques and do it.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re just doing it with a partner who s holding the pads.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re not hitting each other in the face.
2
SPEAKER_01
And the sparring is super light.
2
SPEAKER_01
I spar every week and I don t get injured.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ll have bruises and shit, but I never leave being like, yeah, I have a concussion or I just broke my nose.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s very light.
2
SPEAKER_00
Alright, I might do that.
2
SPEAKER_00
I might do that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Alright, you re doing Muay Thai, what else is going on?
2
SPEAKER_00
Dude, what if I get into Muay Thai and I just go ultra fucking Joe Rogan mode and like I m only talking about martial arts on the podcast forever now?
2
SPEAKER_01
I would be supportive.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay, you re doing martial arts, anything else fun going on?
2
SPEAKER_01
Definitely being able to spend time with my wife, just hanging out with her.
2
SPEAKER_01
Work is fun.
2
SPEAKER_01
Work is exciting.
2
SPEAKER_01
Bicycling, going cycling, playing video games.
2
SPEAKER_01
Fucking love playing video games.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, me too.
2
SPEAKER_00
Video games have been such a, they re such a great solace, especially like, if you have anxiety, you know, because video games have such a, they re very clearly defined.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, they have clear, life is the opposite of a video game.
2
SPEAKER_00
It is, it is, there s no clear objectives, you know?
2
SPEAKER_00
So video games are great for kind of like, let s exist in a universe where everything makes sense for a second.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, no doubt.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, it s actually interesting, like, so I m a huge believer in, yeah, like the power of gaming and community.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I ve been trying to start this group therapy
2
SPEAKER_01
thing for gamers, like, you know, probably people like you and me that have been gaming for a long time.
2
SPEAKER_01
And like, I don t know, a lot of my best friends are people that I just hang out with on Discord.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I ve been trying to get it going, but it s been hard to find people.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t know, it s just hard to get a group going.
2
SPEAKER_01
But if anybody lives in Tennessee and wants to do group therapy for gamers, I m your guy.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, healthy gamer GG, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that guy s the GOAT.
2
SPEAKER_00
Salmon, you said your name was?
2
SPEAKER_00
Salmon, this was a good talk, man.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re a respectable guy.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s funny talking to a guy like you who s pretty much my age, because...
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_00
I feel like I m 16 and I m talking to you and you re like a real adult.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m inspired by your adultness.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m going to try to incorporate some of that into my life as well.
2
SPEAKER_00
I appreciate it.
2
SPEAKER_01
And can I say something to you?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, of course.
2
SPEAKER_01
You would be an excellent therapist and
2
SPEAKER_01
It s not that hard.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ve heard you say like we have to go to school for a million years.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s not that hard.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, I Sincerely, I appreciate you saying that I I have to tell you something Okay, I would never ever ever ever ever in a million years become a real therapist I have no desire to ever do that.
2
SPEAKER_00
I have no
2
SPEAKER_00
desire to ever do that.
2
SPEAKER_00
I like it playing pretend therapist on the internet is fun.
2
SPEAKER_00
I
3
SPEAKER_02
like it I have no desire to I m never I am I am never going back to school ever again in my entire life for anything I have nightmares dude where like I ll wake up like be dreaming that I forgot to do my fucking homework and then I wake up and I m like oh I I never have to do anything ever again you know I ve thought
3
SPEAKER_02
No, I still wouldn t even do- like, in my head, I m like, what if I became a life coach?
3
SPEAKER_02
And I m like, it s a terrible- that s terrible.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s so funny, because I m like, I m sitting around in my- I m asleep.
3
SPEAKER_02
I m like laying in bed on a sheetless mattress with fucking Doritos all over my floor, and I m like, I should be a life coach.
3
SPEAKER_02
No, I m never gonna do either of those two things.
3
SPEAKER_02
But...
3
SPEAKER_02
I appreciate you saying that, I do, and I m glad that you re a real therapist, and you sound like a very smart guy, and I m glad that you re doing it, because it s hard, man, it sounds hard, it would be too serious, you know?
3
SPEAKER_02
Like, I can do whatever I want on this little podcast, and I don t, you know, I don t, I think, having a whole serious thing, and being a, although, actually, I ll say this, I ll say this,
3
SPEAKER_02
I would become a real therapist because it would be really funny.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like, to post a picture and it s like, the therapy gecko became a real therapist.
3
SPEAKER_02
That would be very... Like, I would do it as a bit.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Hey, life is a bit.
3
SPEAKER_02
Life kind of is a bit.
3
SPEAKER_02
Um, but thanks for the kind words, Salmon.
3
SPEAKER_02
Um, good luck to you.
3
SPEAKER_02
Good luck to your family.
3
SPEAKER_02
Um, is there anything else that you want to say to the people of the computer before we go?
3
SPEAKER_00
You should go get an exorcism in Mexico.
3
SPEAKER_02
Oh yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Do you have a 30 second long version of that story?
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
All right.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m counting.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
I went to Mexico on a meditation retreat.
3
SPEAKER_00
I went to this shaman off the beaten path that was not a part of the retreat.
3
SPEAKER_00
Did not expect this, but had a full on exorcism and
3
SPEAKER_00
like the real everything, like everything you would think.
3
SPEAKER_00
And afterwards, I was able to admit that I want to live and I want to be happy.
3
SPEAKER_00
And since then, I haven t been suicidal.
3
SPEAKER_00
So whatever was in me that wanted me to die, was so afraid of life that wanted me to die, it s out of me.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s sick.
3
SPEAKER_00
Where d you get that?
3
SPEAKER_02
Where in Mexico is this?
3
SPEAKER_00
Teotihuacan.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m really sorry for anyone that knows how to fucking not be an idiot American that doesn t speak Spanish.
3
SPEAKER_02
Teotihuacan?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Is that near Mexico City?
3
SPEAKER_02
Close, yeah, like a couple hour drive.
3
SPEAKER_02
Interesting.
3
SPEAKER_02
What, did you take any drugs or just, you just like, you know, said some stuff?
3
SPEAKER_00
Free ballin  it.
3
SPEAKER_00
No drugs.
3
SPEAKER_00
I haven t touched a drug.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, I don t have any like delusions, paranoid delusions, anything like that.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like it was just a, I don t know, man.
3
SPEAKER_00
It was weird.
3
SPEAKER_00
Um, did not expect it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And like I was with, you know, some friends and they could hear me like screaming and like they heard it all.
3
SPEAKER_00
It was crazy.
3
SPEAKER_02
Did you, uh, would you recommend other people do it?
3
SPEAKER_00
Um, I would recommend,
3
SPEAKER_00
Mmm.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t know dude.
3
SPEAKER_02
I don t know I Kind of want to try this now.
3
SPEAKER_02
I m down.
3
SPEAKER_02
I m at a point right now where I m like let me let s try some shit Actually, I m I m full of shit.
3
SPEAKER_02
I am still scared to do stuff, but maybe I will maybe I ll do a exorcism It sounds well.
3
SPEAKER_00
We re all just looking for answers Somewhere don t in my lap if it falls into your lap go for it, but I don t know if you should go seek that experience It was scary
3
SPEAKER_02
Uh, thanks for calling, Salmon, and... you know, I ll, uh... I ll see you... I ll see you in the afterlife, maybe.
3
SPEAKER_00
That sounds good, man.
3
SPEAKER_00
We ll chill.
3
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
3
SPEAKER_00
You do good stuff.
3
SPEAKER_02
Thanks, man.
3
SPEAKER_02
I m trying.
3
SPEAKER_02
You too.
3
SPEAKER_02
Take care, brother.
3
SPEAKER_02
Alright, bye-bye.
3
SPEAKER_02
An exorcism... in Mexico.
3
SPEAKER_02
I do... that is...
3
SPEAKER_02
You know, I m looking for a shortcut, right?
3
SPEAKER_02
Cause I was saying to Salmon, I m like, when am I going to be able to just like, how do I take all this anxiety and just like live like a normal person, you know?
3
SPEAKER_02
And sometimes I hear stuff like that and I m like, should I go to a fucking shaman in Mexico and get an exorcism?
3
SPEAKER_02
And it turns out all the, it turns out what I really need to do is like, you know,
3
SPEAKER_02
Like stop smoking weed, right?
3
SPEAKER_02
Like you could, like everything that you think you re gonna get from getting an exorcism from a shaman in Mexico, you could probably just do in your house.
3
SPEAKER_02
But, maybe I m fucking wrong.
3
SPEAKER_02
What do I know?
3
SPEAKER_02
I don t know shit about anything.
3
SPEAKER_02
Maybe I need to go to the shaman.
3
SPEAKER_02
Maybe I need to clean my room.
3
SPEAKER_02
Maybe both, why not both?
3
SPEAKER_02
Why not clean your room, then go to the shaman?
3
SPEAKER_02
Life s crazy.
3
SPEAKER_02
Hello?
3
SPEAKER_02
Hello?
3
SPEAKER_02
Who is this?
3
SPEAKER_01
This is Jimmy.
3
SPEAKER_02
How can I get you today, Jimmy?
3
SPEAKER_02
What s going on?
3
SPEAKER_02
What would you like to talk about?
3
SPEAKER_01
So I was hoping that I could get a little bit of advice, maybe on a situation that I was in.
3
SPEAKER_02
Tell me.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I went, you know, there is this very nice person I ve been talking to, beautiful human being and everything like that.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I was hoping that I could maybe get a little bit of guidance as to where I should take my next step and where I should go next.
3
SPEAKER_01
We ve been chatting Very very friendly human being and everything like that and we had a nice little we had a nice little interaction at the rainforest cafe Where we we actually we had a nice little photo opportunity in front of the endangered frogs exhibit that they have there It was very nice.
3
SPEAKER_01
I got to watch the animatronic monkeys waving at me.
3
SPEAKER_01
It made me very happy wait, so what you
3
SPEAKER_02
Jimmy, give me the full scope here, you know?
3
SPEAKER_02
So you met a woman at the Rainforest Cafe?
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, I had known her beforehand, and we ended up meeting at the Rainforest Cafe.
3
SPEAKER_02
All right, you ended up meeting at the Rainforest, does that mean you asked her on a date to the Rainforest Cafe?
3
SPEAKER_02
You went to the Rainforest Cafe alone, you saw her at the Rainforest Cafe alone, and then you guys met?
3
SPEAKER_01
No, this was a planned interaction.
3
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t know if I would necessarily say that it was a date, though.
3
SPEAKER_01
I would say it was more of a planned interaction, if you understand what I mean.
3
SPEAKER_02
Jimmy, why do you live life in such cryptic terms?
3
SPEAKER_01
I m not trying to be cryptic.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m just saying, I don t think that maybe necessarily I came across with the way that I needed to convey that message.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know what I m saying?
3
SPEAKER_02
I don t think that- Jimmy, if you talk to this woman any way, like you talk to me right now, the cryptic, the failure of communication of the nature of the meeting is a hundred percent on you.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know what, I think that you might be right there, because I think maybe I was a little bit too patient.
3
SPEAKER_02
Because the way you didn t even, you say I met this human being and we had an interaction at Rainforest Cafe.
3
SPEAKER_02
What does that fucking mean, dude?
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I think it means exactly that.
3
SPEAKER_01
You could have said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
3
SPEAKER_01
You could have, here s what you could have said.
3
SPEAKER_02
You could have said, I met a woman.
3
SPEAKER_02
and I asked her on a date to the Rainforest Cafe, and we went together to the Rainforest Cafe.
3
SPEAKER_02
Saying we had an interaction at the Rainforest Cafe, that could mean a thousand different things.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay, that s fair.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s fair.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay, am I being reasonable right now?
3
SPEAKER_01
No, no, no, no, I think you re actually, you re putting things in a way that I hadn t necessarily thought about them before.
3
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because I think that may have been one of my issues, is that I was coming off a bit,
3
SPEAKER_01
See, my thing is that I don t wanna come off a bit too strong, you know what I m saying?
3
SPEAKER_01
I m always a little bit too nervous to be like a little bit too just like, hey yo, what you doing?
3
SPEAKER_01
What you up to right now?
3
SPEAKER_01
And I just didn t wanna come off with that type of vibe.
3
SPEAKER_01
I wanted to make it very friendly, very cordial, very chill.
3
SPEAKER_01
A chill type time.
3
SPEAKER_02
You know what, Jimmy?
3
SPEAKER_02
We got off on the wrong foot here.
3
SPEAKER_02
So let s start with this.
3
SPEAKER_02
How did you meet this woman initially?
3
SPEAKER_01
So we both are in the same.
4
SPEAKER_02
F1 historical card collecting community Off to a phenomenal start Yeah, yeah, we both collect rare vintage Nini f1 cards of people like Juan Manuel Fangio area and Barrett and Santa Michael Schumacher everything like that.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh, you got a little maker Michael she oh absolutely That s amazing.
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t know who that is, but that s cool what I m
4
SPEAKER_01
Alright, so you met her at this F1 card collecting thing, and this is an in-person group?
4
SPEAKER_02
Uh, so this is- this is an online thing.
4
SPEAKER_02
We just kind of noticed that we both had a very similar collection, and, uh, we both- we both, you know, it s not too often that you find, first of all, even Americans that like F1 at all.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s a very rare thing.
4
SPEAKER_02
So when I found a woman, I was like, let s just make a casual conversation here.
4
SPEAKER_02
But see, that s the thing, is like,
4
SPEAKER_02
She s also a woman in F1 card collecting community.
4
SPEAKER_02
There aren t a lot of those.
4
SPEAKER_02
I m gonna be completely honest with you.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s a whole lot of dudes.
4
SPEAKER_01
Okay, so you met her on Discord and does she live in the same vicinity as you?
4
SPEAKER_02
She lives within like a six hour drive, I would say.
4
SPEAKER_01
All right, and so you met up at the, how did you phrase this?
4
SPEAKER_01
Were you like, let s hang out at the Rainforest Cafe?
4
SPEAKER_02
Well, it was kind of a, uh, we were all at the same spot at the same time type deal.
4
SPEAKER_02
So it kind of worked out like that.
4
SPEAKER_01
Was this just you and her or you went with a group of people?
4
SPEAKER_01
Say, what did you say?
4
SPEAKER_02
It was just, it was just me and her, just the two of us.
4
SPEAKER_01
All right.
4
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
4
SPEAKER_02
It was kind of one of those, like our paths were kind of crossing at the same time.
4
SPEAKER_02
She was going this way.
4
SPEAKER_02
I was kind of going that way and we were like, Hey,
4
SPEAKER_02
Look at how this is matched up.
4
SPEAKER_02
That s a fantastic situation.
4
SPEAKER_01
I feel like I m, all right, you re at Rainforest Cafe with this woman.
4
SPEAKER_01
And are you sensing that she might like you?
4
SPEAKER_01
Is this, what s up?
4
SPEAKER_02
I think it was hard to tell because I mean, I could definitely get the sense that she didn t not like me.
4
SPEAKER_02
You know what I mean?
4
SPEAKER_01
Uh-huh.
4
SPEAKER_02
Like there was definitely, it was definitely clear that like, this person did not hate my vibes.
4
SPEAKER_02
Uh-huh.
4
SPEAKER_02
But I also couldn t tell if they were just like, Ayo, this is a cool person or like, Ayo, I m trying to like see what this person looks like shirtless.
4
SPEAKER_02
You know what I mean?
4
SPEAKER_01
Uh-huh.
4
SPEAKER_01
No, it s hard.
4
SPEAKER_01
It is hard.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s, you know what s, it s hard because, no, I understand that.
4
SPEAKER_01
I understand like, you know, that in your brain, you re like, ah, she s the only woman in an all male dominated thing.
4
SPEAKER_01
She probably gets hit on all the time, but like,
4
SPEAKER_01
What if she actually does like me, but also I don t wanna, you know, be just another fucking guy hitting on her if I do.
4
SPEAKER_01
I understand the back and forth of the brain in this situation.
4
SPEAKER_01
um yeah now as as far as what to do about it i don t know part i want to i want to say to just be honest and be like you know hey i like you it s totally we can still be friends you know even if you if you don t like me like that it s totally cool but i just thought i would i d be honest i d put it out there you know yeah i don t think there s anything wrong with that yeah that s what i m thinking of doing too because like i want to shoot the shot i m very much
4
SPEAKER_02
Shooting your shot, but also like to make things weird afterwards, but that would be the you know what I mean?
4
SPEAKER_02
Cuz I know I can be like cool about it and I ll just be like whatever it s cool It s like if it don t land, but I m just saying I don t want to be weird about it You know what?
4
SPEAKER_02
I mean?
4
SPEAKER_02
Cuz I know that there s a whole lot of dudes out there in the f1 card collecting community They got cooler cards than me and they can shoot their shot at any time so I m just saying I want to make sure that like
4
SPEAKER_02
Kind of protect myself here, but I also understand that like there s a whole bunch of other dudes who are trying to do the same thing And I m not trying to look like a whole you know I m not like trying to look like the other I m not trying to look like every other dude.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know what I m saying.
4
SPEAKER_01
You re afraid that some guy With you know even cooler f1 cards will swoop in I know Yeah, that s so funny
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t know my gut feeling was telling me that you know, there s a way to go about this that Is like hey throwing this vibe out here if There s no interest totally fine.
4
SPEAKER_01
No worries.
4
SPEAKER_01
We can say that we re not gonna make it weird.
4
SPEAKER_01
We can still be friends We can still hang out in the community.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s not gonna be a whole fucking thing.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, it s chill.
4
SPEAKER_01
I
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
Go for it.
4
SPEAKER_02
You know, I think, I think I might do that.
4
SPEAKER_02
I might do it right after I hang up with you here today and then I ll let you know how it goes in the future.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
Go ahead.
4
SPEAKER_01
Go ahead.
4
SPEAKER_01
Why is ever I see F1 all over the, it s racing, right?
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
You know, like the little cars, they go vroom, vroom.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I know that.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
You ever been to a race before?
4
SPEAKER_01
No, it sounds horribly boring.
4
SPEAKER_02
Nah, it s awesome.
4
SPEAKER_02
My friend, I will tell you what.
4
SPEAKER_02
Do you ever get the chance in one of your travels to just come across an auto race?
4
SPEAKER_02
Just maybe sneak in there for a second.
4
SPEAKER_02
They might even let you into the car.
4
SPEAKER_01
No, I don t want, I don t, I don t like doing like, uh, I m not interested in, in thrills.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know what I mean?
4
SPEAKER_01
Like I don t, I have no interest in, um, you know, skydiving or race car driving or bungee jumping.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m not a big thrill guy.
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t want to, you know, life is too precious.
4
SPEAKER_02
I understand, I understand.
4
SPEAKER_02
But sometimes you gotta live a little bit on the edge, you know?
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah, that s true.
4
SPEAKER_02
That s how I find the greatest pleasures in life, is when you just get a little bit too close to that danger, and then you say, okay, here we go, baby.
4
SPEAKER_01
So then I say to you, Jimmy, live a little bit on the edge and ask this girl out.
4
SPEAKER_01
And be, don t, just use real words.
4
SPEAKER_01
Don t say, I would like to have an interaction with you, you know?
4
SPEAKER_02
You don t want me to speak in like a poem like I did earlier?
4
SPEAKER_01
No, don t ever do that to anyone ever again.
4
SPEAKER_02
All right, I will only use at the most three haikus, I promise.
4
SPEAKER_01
What did you get at Rainforest Cafe?
4
SPEAKER_01
I m curious.
4
SPEAKER_01
Did you get the volcano where they bring it out and they yell volcano?
4
SPEAKER_02
No, I didn t get the volcano.
4
SPEAKER_02
I got this like chicken gumbo thing.
4
SPEAKER_02
I don t know why I made it.
4
SPEAKER_02
It was a bad decision.
4
SPEAKER_02
Underwhelming to say the least.
4
SPEAKER_01
Dude, I haven t been to Rainforest Cafe.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m gonna go.
4
SPEAKER_01
I haven t been to Rainforest Cafe since being an adult that could actually pay for the meal himself.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m gonna go and I m gonna get some shit.
4
SPEAKER_02
Dude, it s, uh, it s an experience.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m sure.
4
SPEAKER_02
I definitely recommend, you know, if you can go to one.
4
SPEAKER_02
Don t maybe, I went to the one in the Atlantic City, like, a couple weeks ago.
4
SPEAKER_02
And, uh, I gotta admit, the whole boardwalk just looks awful right now, so maybe don t go to that one.
4
SPEAKER_02
That one s not the best.
4
SPEAKER_01
Um, I m not gonna show up in the gecko suit or else people will think I work there and ask me where the bathroom is.
4
SPEAKER_01
Uh...
4
SPEAKER_01
Take care of Jimmy, GECK bless you, and good luck.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yep, thank you for the call, I appreciate it.
4
SPEAKER_02
Have a great rest of your night.
4
SPEAKER_01
Now I m hungry for Rainforest Cafe.