1
SPEAKER_01
 to be able to get that out of the walls.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, exactly.
1
SPEAKER_01
They've seen every horrible thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
Crazy parties, animal feces, whatever it is.
1
SPEAKER_01
Everything.
1
SPEAKER_00
So when you say that, they immediately go to all this horrible stuff.
1
SPEAKER_01
No.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because you're going to take them to a better place.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you say first, are you ready for me to?
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm getting ready to ruin your day.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, man.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you let that sink in.
1
SPEAKER_00
 And then they go, so now you start bringing them out of it.
1
SPEAKER_00
How are you gonna seem to them if you're somebody who's asking for stuff for free?
1
SPEAKER_00
You're cheap.
1
SPEAKER_00
You're another cheap, entitled, self-centered traveler who's demanding.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so I'm like, I'm sure.
1
SPEAKER_00
Again, it's not a denial.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's an admission.
1
SPEAKER_00
 A prediction, I'm sure, I'm going to seem like another self-centered, unappreciative, demanding traveler who thinks the sun rises and sets on you, who wants something for nothing.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now, you no longer have a goat in your suitcase.
1
SPEAKER_00
Ritual sacrifice is not involved.
1
SPEAKER_00
You want something for free.
1
SPEAKER_00
They immediately start to feel better and believe you.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Now, because you asked me about questions.
1
SPEAKER_00
So now we get to the question to create a state of mind.
1
SPEAKER_00
The last obstacle is going to be how much trouble they're going to get into if they give me a free suite upgrade.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now, there's a colleague standing there.
1
SPEAKER_00
I've done this while the boss was standing there.
1
SPEAKER_00
I've done this literally while the manager was standing next listening to this whole thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
 They may need to go find a manager.
1
SPEAKER_00
So how much trouble am I going to get you in if I ask for a free upgrade to a suite?
1
SPEAKER_00
Because the last thing that's going to go through their mind that they have to reconcile before they make the move is whether or not they're going to get in any trouble.
1
SPEAKER_00
I lay this out in one hotel in New York.
1
SPEAKER_00
 And as a woman standing next, because you're almost always going to get it in front of somebody.
1
SPEAKER_00
So it works in front of other employees, it works in front of customers.
1
SPEAKER_00
You're not going to be in a vacuum.
1
SPEAKER_00
And the boss jumps in and says, because you asked nicely, let me see what I could do.
1
SPEAKER_00
She starts checking the inventory.
1
SPEAKER_00
I want to be there for four nights.
1
SPEAKER_00
And she says, look, if you can guarantee me that when you check out on Friday, you're out of here before 10 o'clock in the morning,
1
SPEAKER_00
 I got an upgrade for you, but I got late checkout problems on Friday morning.
1
SPEAKER_00
You cannot have a late checkout.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I'm like, you got it.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I'll come down in my pajamas if I got to get out of there in time.
1
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
1
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_01
So the three steps is I'm getting ready to ruin your day.
1
SPEAKER_01
Some type of approach of.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Because what are you getting ready to do?
1
SPEAKER_00
You're getting ready to give them something negative.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
And the second one is acknowledging that you're coming across as another greedy, demanding customer that expects the world to open up for them and have something for free.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then the third one is, tell me the third step.
1
SPEAKER_00
The hard question, how much trouble am I going to get you in if I issue a free upgrade to a suite?
1
SPEAKER_00
And this emotional journey, and really,
1
SPEAKER_00
 The point is always leaving people better than you found them.
1
SPEAKER_00
And they've been through a lot.
1
SPEAKER_00
They want to help you.
1
SPEAKER_00
If they would love to help you, the first thing is, do you appreciate what it is for them?
1
SPEAKER_00
 Like this poor schmuck behind the counter.
1
SPEAKER_00
He's getting yelled at by everybody.
1
SPEAKER_00
And everybody's going for a free upgrade.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I had a friend of mine who had this really entertaining one, but the success rate was really low.
1
SPEAKER_00
He's telling me, he says, you mean to tell me if the President of the United States wasn't coming in here tonight, you wouldn't have a suite?
1
SPEAKER_00
And the clerk says, of course we would.
1
SPEAKER_00
He said, well, the President ain't coming, give it to me.
1
SPEAKER_00
That's really entertaining.
1
SPEAKER_00
 But it left the guy resentful.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like one hotel I'm in, where I get the upgrade for several nights, an hour after I check into the room, my plans change dramatically.
1
SPEAKER_00
I gotta check out the following morning.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm not staying two nights.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now, by and large, they are completely entitled, based on the terms of the contract, to charge me for the second night.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, I've agreed to that.
1
SPEAKER_00
 I go down the next morning and I said, look, I am so sorry.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is my problem.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is not your problem.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because it was my problem.
1
SPEAKER_00
And if I asked to check out without getting charged, their first reaction is like, look, dude, that's your problem.
1
SPEAKER_00
Bad planning on your part is not constitute an emergency for me.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, we're a business.
1
SPEAKER_01
We got stuff to do too.
1
SPEAKER_01
You screwed up.
1
SPEAKER_01
Why should we pay?
1
SPEAKER_00
So that's what they're going to think.
1
SPEAKER_00
So they're going to think it's my problem.
1
SPEAKER_00
 So I've left them with really positive residue from the day before, because they felt great about helping me out.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I say, look, I'm sorry.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's my problem.
1
SPEAKER_00
And they go, what is it?
1
SPEAKER_00
What is it?
1
SPEAKER_00
What is it?
1
SPEAKER_00
I go, my plans have changed.
1
SPEAKER_00
I got to check out.
1
SPEAKER_00
I got to go home.
1
SPEAKER_00
 And they're like, oh, no worries, no worries, we'll get you out of here, what can we do?
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, leaving, because even after the deal, you always need some sort of collaboration from somebody.
1
SPEAKER_00
You're gonna need something.
1
SPEAKER_00
It doesn't matter what it is.
1
SPEAKER_00
And even if you don't need something, you want them to feel like they helped you, they felt good about helping you.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, the hotel staff, they realized that you could give them a great social media review as a result, which is gonna be really good for their business.
1
SPEAKER_00
 they don't want to get clobbered over the head.
1
SPEAKER_00
They don't want to say, well, I'm an influencer, and if you give me a free upgrade, I will broadcast it to all of my 75 followers on Instagram that this is a great hotel.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, everybody thinks they're an influencer.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, they want that, they just don't want to get clubbed with it.
1
SPEAKER_00
So if they liked helping you just because something about the interaction, instead of making them feel uneasy, made them feel like they collaborated with another human being that saw their challenges,
1
SPEAKER_00
 Then all that other stuff that you wanna use as primaries, now great fringe benefits, social media, commentary.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm gonna put a video on my Instagram about how cool the room is, or how great the view is, or I'm in downtown Detroit, and how revitalized downtown Detroit is.
1
SPEAKER_00
And this phenomenal hotel suite that I'm in, that I'm like, I'll move in here, this is so nice.
1
SPEAKER_00
 You know, so I'll put that out there.
1
SPEAKER_00
But you know, I don't want to use it against them.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don't want to leverage it against them.
1
SPEAKER_00
I want them to feel like I did it because I wanted to and because it was mutual gain.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
What would you say then are the three biggest mistakes you see a lot of people doing in negotiations?
1
SPEAKER_00
Trying to club somebody with their leverage.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Explaining.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, I got to go first.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, I got to set an anchor out.
1
SPEAKER_00
 You know this anchoring on price or terms is just such such a bad idea and so many people love to do it Can you give me an example what that means?
1
SPEAKER_00
Like if I if I know I want to pay $100 and I'm saying look the best I can do is like 25 I
1
SPEAKER_00
 You go to the side on the open market, I want to pay $100 and I want you to work me up there.
1
SPEAKER_00
The real problem with extreme anchoring from the beginning, I think all seasoned negotiators have learned, it drives deals from the table.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like I don't want to miss out a deal.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Because my extreme anchor on the price of the terms at the beginning was so extreme that you're like, I can never come close to this.
1
SPEAKER_00
When we should have made the deal, we should have figured out a way to work it out.
1
SPEAKER_00
Price doesn't break deals, doesn't make deals, it breaks them.
1
SPEAKER_00
You don't make a great deal based on price.
1
SPEAKER_00
You can break a deal on price.
1
SPEAKER_00
If you try to undercut extremes.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
Somebody's going to get mad, they're going to walk away.
1
SPEAKER_00
You're going to get a, you know, heck with you.
1
SPEAKER_00
You insult me with that offer?
1
SPEAKER_00
 And they just don't realize how many deals they drive away from the table.
1
SPEAKER_01
Interesting.
1
SPEAKER_01
 If someone wants to get a better price on something.
1
SPEAKER_01
So that was, I think, first off, before I ask that question, that was the second, I think, mistake.
1
SPEAKER_01
Was there another big mistake people make in negotiations?
1
SPEAKER_01
The price, extreme price anchoring, using too much leverage to try to club someone.
1
SPEAKER_01
Was there another big one?
1
SPEAKER_00
What a lot of people do that's actually taught out there a lot, which is really bad, is continue to ask for stuff after you've made a deal.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like ask for free stuff.
1
SPEAKER_01
That's the worst, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
We've made a good deal.
1
SPEAKER_00
People hate it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Here's a win-win.
1
SPEAKER_01
 And now you're asking more and more and more.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's gonna make, leave a sour taste in someone's mouth.
1
SPEAKER_00
That's every time.
1
SPEAKER_00
And that's taught out there regularly.
1
SPEAKER_00
Really?
1
SPEAKER_00
It was, you know, there was a negotiation guru from the 80s, and I can't remember what he called it, but he gave the example.
1
SPEAKER_00
You go out and you get a custom-made suit.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you've made the deal for the suit, and one of the guys measuring you, you say, so how many free times do I get with that?
1
SPEAKER_00
 And he said, that's a great way to get free things, free little things, after they made the deal.
1
SPEAKER_01
Throw in a pocket square, throw in a couple of ties, throw in a couple of legs.
1
SPEAKER_00
Whatever it is.
1
SPEAKER_00
And what that does is make the person you did it to hate you, which they're going to resent it.
1
SPEAKER_00
And if they have the opportunity to fail to comply with any term, they will do that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now, unfortunately, that's taught really extensively
1
SPEAKER_00
 And it's done a business all the time.
1
SPEAKER_00
People call it scope creep, feature creep.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like it drives every single business person crazy because they don't know how to deal with it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now, the black swan method, you know, you might say if you were good at how questions, you might say how can I give you free ties and continue to want to do business with you?
1
SPEAKER_00
 You know, how can I be a great tailor for you if you ask me for free stuff and it cuts my margin?
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, make what they ask for the obstacle to what they want.
1
SPEAKER_00
Either what you want as a path or if what they want is bad, it's the obstacle.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, how can I serve the needs of your family if you're cutting into my profit margins?
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, there's gotta be a way to wake somebody up to it.
1
SPEAKER_00
 because a lot of people have been taught that they don't know any better.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like if I'd have stuck to that training that I learned from this guy back in the 1980s, I'd have thought it was okay because I'm getting free ties all over the place.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like a lot of people, if they don't know any better, how do you wake them up so that if they only knew they'd change?
1
SPEAKER_00
Now there's some people that are doing it on purpose.
1
SPEAKER_00
If you do something like that to me because you didn't know any better,
1
SPEAKER_00
 Let me see if I can wake you up.
1
SPEAKER_00
If I can wake you up, awesome, we've got a great long-term relationship.
1
SPEAKER_00
If I can't wake you up, I now know, and I'm probably like, okay, cool.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is the last deal I make with this guy.
1
SPEAKER_00
One and done, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is a one and done, I'm out.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I need to know, if you just did it by accident.
1
SPEAKER_00
I got a job negotiation.
1
SPEAKER_00
Recently brought somebody onto my company.
1
SPEAKER_00
Thought we had the deal settled.
1
SPEAKER_01
 And the new employee.
1
SPEAKER_00
New employee.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because employment contracts like any other.
1
SPEAKER_00
And this person brings up a bunch of other stuff after we've laid out the terms, we've written the offer letter, we sent the offer letter.
1
SPEAKER_00
Offer letter doesn't get signed.
1
SPEAKER_00
Silence.
1
SPEAKER_00
Not a good sign.
1
SPEAKER_00
My director of operations, who knows no oriented questions,
1
SPEAKER_00
 She says to this person in an email, have you given up on signing the offer letter?
1
SPEAKER_00
Immediately comes back with a bunch of not ridiculous benefits.
1
SPEAKER_00
More asks.
1
SPEAKER_00
More asks, which are not on a plate.
1
SPEAKER_00
Some of them are like, wow, that was interesting.
1
SPEAKER_00
I never thought of that one.
1
SPEAKER_00
No, we can't do that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Not in a million years.
1
SPEAKER_00
 This is stuff I aspire to.
1
SPEAKER_00
But not you now.
1
SPEAKER_00
We can't do it now.
1
SPEAKER_00
But no, I like this one.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's just not in the package now.
1
SPEAKER_00
But my director of operations is like, I never had somebody come back.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I'm like, OK.
1
SPEAKER_00
First thing I got to do is I got to find out, did this person just not know any better?
1
SPEAKER_00
So I engaged in the conversation.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I said, all right, so however this goes, I want you to understand two things.
1
SPEAKER_00
First of all, I'm glad it came up now as opposed to six months from now.
1
SPEAKER_00
 But secondly, this is a bad habit to bring stuff up after the deal has been cut.
1
SPEAKER_00
So I'm guessing you just didn't know any better, and you were uncomfortable bringing it up.
1
SPEAKER_00
But if you come on board first, you've got to understand, we don't do this to people.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you've got to learn, we work all the little stuff out before we think we have an agreement, instead of going for the little stuff after the agreement.
1
SPEAKER_00
 And this person was like, hey, I didn't know.
1
SPEAKER_00
And my intention is to help build the company.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I appreciate you let me know.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I understand where you're coming from.
1
SPEAKER_00
They were genuine about it.
1
SPEAKER_00
They were very genuine.
1
SPEAKER_00
I needed to know that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Was this person advised to do this?
1
SPEAKER_00
Did they do it by accident?
1
SPEAKER_00
 Or do they do that because this is going to be the predictor of future behavior, which now we have a real problem.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because if this is a habit that you're born with, you are not going to last and you can't represent me.
1
SPEAKER_00
No.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because the people that work on my team are also my ambassadors.
1
SPEAKER_00
I got to find out which one it is.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I go back and we talk it through and we settle everything out.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I got a list of things to aspire to for employee benefits.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Because these are great things.
1
SPEAKER_01
Sure.
1
SPEAKER_01
So to finish that up, one of the worst things you can do is ask for more and more and more and more things after the negotiation has been agreed on.
1
SPEAKER_01
Right.
1
SPEAKER_01
Do that before the final agreement is what I'm hearing you say.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yep.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
If someone's looking to buy.
1
SPEAKER_01
Nice paraphrase, by the way.
1
SPEAKER_01
You want to make sure I capture that.
1
SPEAKER_01
If someone is looking to buy, wanting to buy something, acquire something, whether they're buying a business, a car, a house,
1
SPEAKER_01
 Some potential expensive item, a jewelry, something of more value than $1,000.
1
SPEAKER_01
And they might be able to negotiate a lower price.
1
SPEAKER_01
You mentioned the extreme price anchoring.
1
SPEAKER_01
 How that is a mistake, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
There's a house for a million dollars.
1
SPEAKER_01
I'll give you a 200 grand for it, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
But you want to get a better deal, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
Maybe it's a Rolex.
1
SPEAKER_01
Maybe it's a car.
1
SPEAKER_01
Maybe it's a house.
1
SPEAKER_01
Maybe you want to acquire business, whatever it is.
1
SPEAKER_01
Something of higher value, an engagement ring.
1
SPEAKER_01
You're going to marry someone.
1
SPEAKER_01
Let them make their profit off somebody else.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
What should be the lower percentage?
1
SPEAKER_01
 on a higher item of value.
1
SPEAKER_01
What should the initial offer be?
1
SPEAKER_01
You want to get a better deal.
1
SPEAKER_01
So you don't want to pay a million dollars for a home, but you really want the home.
1
SPEAKER_01
You don't want to pay $3,000 for the diamond ring, the engaged ring, but you really want that ring.
1
SPEAKER_01
 How low of a percentage should you go to anchor in order for you to feel like I got a great deal?
1
SPEAKER_01
And I got the thing I wanted and they didn't get screwed over.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know what I mean?
1
SPEAKER_00
Well depend upon the context I mean like 30 30 percent is a good rule of thumb to start at well for a target like if you if you and In very very context driven.
1
SPEAKER_00
Sure
1
SPEAKER_00
 Like for example, I'm in Macy's one time and picking out this jacket, girl I'm with really likes it.
1
SPEAKER_00
She searches this thing extensively.
1
SPEAKER_00
She finds like a thread out of place.
1
SPEAKER_00
And she goes like, watch me get 10% off on this jacket.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I'm like, I can get 30% by being nice.
1
SPEAKER_00
No way.
1
SPEAKER_00
Tell me more.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Well, like in every transaction, I look at it as there's an aggravation tax.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now, the person that you're dealing with has already built in the aggravation tax because of all the aggravating people that have come through the door ahead of them.
1
SPEAKER_00
So there's an aggravation penalty, there's an annoyance tax, there's an aggravation tax that's already there on a price.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now, if you're not aggravating, you don't need to pay the aggravation tax.
1
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
1
SPEAKER_00
Let somebody else pay that aggravation tax.
1
SPEAKER_01
 And you benefit from them actually paying that tax.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, let somebody else pay it.
1
SPEAKER_00
If I'm not aggravating, why should I pay the aggravating tax?
1
SPEAKER_00
So, you know, this young lady, she'd gotten 10% off on a regular basis.
1
SPEAKER_00
I will be demanding.
1
SPEAKER_00
 10% see annoyance tax when there's another 20% to be gained.
1
SPEAKER_00
Mmm interesting Like you don't so many people don't realize how much money they're leaving on the table really like massive amounts of money On any given the difference between 10% off and 30% right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Like they got a way to give you a better deal.
1
SPEAKER_00
Mm-hmm if they feel like it
1
SPEAKER_00
 So how do you get them to feel like it?
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, yeah, great.
1
SPEAKER_00
There you go.
1
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_00
Again, the approach, very similar to the hotel thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, there's a strategy where we sort of bundle the skills in a black swan method.
1
SPEAKER_00
We call it the accusations audit.
1
SPEAKER_00
The accusations audit.
1
SPEAKER_00
Accusations audit.
1
SPEAKER_00
Let me do an audit of all the names you would call me.
1
SPEAKER_00
 if I'm going to do this.
1
SPEAKER_00
You say this?
1
SPEAKER_00
You say it to yourself.
1
SPEAKER_00
OK, not to them.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because I need to come up with a list.
1
SPEAKER_00
So again, it's like, look.
1
SPEAKER_00
 You get annoying people coming through here all day long, every day, want something for nothing.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm going to look like another one of these annoying jerks.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's really demanding and rugby the wrong way.
1
SPEAKER_00
Don't appreciate how hard it is for you to work in this jewelry store, this car dealership, this wherever you are.
1
SPEAKER_00
You are knocking yourself out in a tough sales job.
1
SPEAKER_00
You're trying to feed your family.
1
SPEAKER_00
People are coming here trying to take food out of your mouth.
1
SPEAKER_00
 because how do they see it?
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, it's not about you.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it's not about, it's really not sympathy.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, the difference between sympathy and empathy.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, I feel your pain.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like I've been there too.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, like I'm a regular guy like you.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like don't give me that regular guy stuff.
1
SPEAKER_00
So, but you look at people like me who want something for nothing, who come walking in all the time.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, you look at us as wanting discounts and you know, and you're trying to feed your family.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Now suddenly this person is like, oh wow.
1
SPEAKER_01
Forget it.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is not the other annoying jerk that came in here.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now they're starting to open up.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then, you know, you talked before about being playful.
1
SPEAKER_00
Being playful about this.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Can be a really big deal.
1
SPEAKER_01
I've gotten so many things for free for being playful or upgrades or discounts Just by let me just say a friendly joke or just something funny, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
You know, let me just be goofy and dance in front of them and be like, what is this guy doing?
1
SPEAKER_01
You know?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you've just got you don't got to pay the aggravation tax.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah and then plus
1
SPEAKER_00
 See, Sean says you're 31% smarter in a positive frame of mind.
1
SPEAKER_00
Not only have you put the person in a better mood, you now got them thinking about options.
1
SPEAKER_00
What can they do?
1
SPEAKER_00
How can they help you?
1
SPEAKER_00
What can they get away with?
1
SPEAKER_00
How can they shortcut the TSA line?
1
SPEAKER_00
What's the code for the employee discount?
1
SPEAKER_00
In the same place where I'm trying to get this 30% or so off,
1
SPEAKER_00
 And I'm joking around with this guy, you know?
1
SPEAKER_00
And one of the things, again, see as a human being, I'm like, well, I'm Chris.
1
SPEAKER_00
Is there a Chris discount?
1
SPEAKER_00
What kind of Chris discount is there?
1
SPEAKER_00
And they laugh at that.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I'm still not getting enough of a discount.
1
SPEAKER_00
And finally, I go like, look, give me the employee discount.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now, I've been joking around, and I smile when I say this.
1
SPEAKER_00
This guy goes like.
1
SPEAKER_00
 I give you the employee discount.
1
SPEAKER_00
I gotta pay for this thing myself.
1
SPEAKER_00
I go I'll pay you back And I'm laughing and he laughs and so he looks at the machine and I says wait right here And he walks around and I see him and I walks up to a person and I perceived to be the manager He's whispering in the manager's ear and I see this manager stand there going like no No, really?
1
SPEAKER_00
 And he comes walking back and another employee intercepts him, whispers in his ear, and I see his eyes light up and he walks over and he plugs in a discount for me and we get the 30% off.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I was joking with him.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was showing I knew what it looked like from his perspective.
1
SPEAKER_00
 I'm getting myself out of this aggravation tax thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
Let somebody else pay the demanding, aggressive, annoying tax.
1
SPEAKER_00
You go in there and you brighten somebody else's day up.
1
SPEAKER_00
 You leave the world a better place.
1
SPEAKER_00
You get some practice in.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because you want that confidence for the big negotiation.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
And all these things work for you.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you end up feeling better about the day yourself.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
You get a fun interaction.
1
SPEAKER_01
 Yeah, you got a discount.
1
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_01
Do you practice every day?
1
SPEAKER_01
Any financial transaction are you practicing?
1
SPEAKER_01
Even if it's a cup of coffee, if it's the gas station, if it's a hotel, it's a plane.
1
SPEAKER_01
Are you always practicing?
1
SPEAKER_01
It's a perishable skill.
1
SPEAKER_00
And me and everybody on my team, if we let ourselves get out of practice, we get rusty.
1
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
1
SPEAKER_00
 I'm really used to my no oriented questions.
1
SPEAKER_00
That's pretty much all I ask what questions?
1
SPEAKER_00
Uh, no oriented where i'm trying to get you to say no That's what you do ridiculous idea.
1
SPEAKER_00
You're pricing that constant.
1
SPEAKER_01
I keep that I keep that teed up console Is it a ridiculous idea is kind of your go-to?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, is it a ridiculous idea for me to get a 30 employee discount today?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah
1
SPEAKER_00
 And so depending upon my daily interactions, I get so caught up in my world that I don't get my practice in.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so like when we started traveling in right after the pandemic, I'm getting ready to go into a hotel.
1
SPEAKER_00
I haven't done a hotel upgrade in a while.
1
SPEAKER_00
 and I almost talked myself out of it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Really?
1
SPEAKER_00
I am, oh, this, you know, amygdala's kicking in.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is not gonna work.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm gonna embarrass myself.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm tired.
1
SPEAKER_00
I can see this guy turning me down.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I literally stand outside the hotel and kind of go, all right, all right, you can do this, you can do this.
1
SPEAKER_00
Come on, come on, you can do it, you can do it.
1
SPEAKER_00
I gotta psych myself up, because I'm out of practice.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, but you're the guy.
1
SPEAKER_00
 That's right, everybody, it's perishable.
1
SPEAKER_00
For everybody.
1
SPEAKER_00
It is not riding a bike.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then you also gotta be willing, if it works nine times out of 10, sometimes you don't get anything.
1
SPEAKER_00
Hotel I was in recently, my read of the guy is you run across deceptive people,
1
SPEAKER_00
 that are not there to help you, that are not going to give you anything.
1
SPEAKER_00
And through the course of the interaction, I get several very strong reads that this person was that minority that we're all afraid of as the majority.
1
SPEAKER_00
 They're a minority and they're there.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so that interaction was, all right, so my read is this, this, and this.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now I'm smarter.
1
SPEAKER_00
I see this guy coming farther away, like Conor McGregor.
1
SPEAKER_01
I win or I learn.
1
SPEAKER_01
Sure, sure.
1
SPEAKER_01
You win or you learn.
1
SPEAKER_01
 Now I'm curious, when you go into a store, a hotel, an airport, and there's multiple options of people to talk to who you would buy from or get upgraded from.
1
SPEAKER_01
There's two people at the counter.
1
SPEAKER_01
There's three people at the store.
1
SPEAKER_01
 Are you assessing first who I should approach based on body language, based on if they smile, if they're, you know, in a more positive state or is it depending on male, female, is it, do you have a success rate based on, is it just more an intuitive feeling that who you walk up to?
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, I hadn't thought about that before.
1
SPEAKER_00
What I'm really more worried about is what kind of vibe I'm putting off.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like I don't have a lot of control over who I'm going to get,
1
SPEAKER_00
 In point of fact, they're reading me before I start reading them.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because, you know, they got a revolving door.
1
SPEAKER_00
They're picking up this energy.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think there's actual energy there.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's one of the things I bounced off of.
1
SPEAKER_00
Andrew Huberman, you know, is the energy actually there?
1
SPEAKER_00
And he's like, the data doesn't support it.
1
SPEAKER_00
 I suspect it's possible.
1
SPEAKER_00
And he's a very data-driven guy.
1
SPEAKER_00
He's solid, solid, solid science.
1
SPEAKER_00
Peer-reviewed journals.
1
SPEAKER_00
He's like, the data ain't there yet, but I think it exists.
1
SPEAKER_00
That's Chris Voss saying it, not Andrew Huber.
1
SPEAKER_00
Andrew didn't say that.
1
SPEAKER_00
He didn't say, I think it exists.
1
SPEAKER_00
Chris Voss says, I think it exists.
1
SPEAKER_00
These people behind the counter, they're picking up on my vibe.
1
SPEAKER_00
 So what I got to do instead of sitting there like, I want this guy, I want this guy, I want this guy, I might be putting off a bad vibe.
1
SPEAKER_00
 I need to put off a relaxed vibe.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, just go walk it right out.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm not in any hurry.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm cool.
1
SPEAKER_00
If I'm looking at them, I gotta make sure I'm looking at them and my inner voice is saying like, take your time.
1
SPEAKER_00
I know you guys are busy.
1
SPEAKER_00
I can't look at them like, do your job.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm standing here.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm a customer.
1
SPEAKER_00
You should be waiting.
1
SPEAKER_00
They're gonna pick up on that if that's my inner voice.
1
SPEAKER_00
So I gotta get my inner voice
1
SPEAKER_00
 in a place where I'm giving off a positive vibe.
1
SPEAKER_00
Relaxed, positive.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then I'm going to roll up and I'm going to do a read on the person in a moment.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, if they look like they're having a bad day, I'm going to say, tough day.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm hitting the reads on the TSA people all the time.
1
SPEAKER_01
Really?
1
SPEAKER_00
 for practice.
1
SPEAKER_00
I do a misread on a TSA guy.
1
SPEAKER_00
Don't remember what airport I was in.
1
SPEAKER_00
I ended up in an unexpected negotiation on the phone 15 minutes later.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because of the misread, I looked at this TSA guy and he just looked kind of blank.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I said, tough day?
1
SPEAKER_00
And he kind of went, hmm.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then I went, just another day, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
He goes, yeah, yeah, just another day.
1
SPEAKER_00
 But that little read is like stretching before going in the game.
1
SPEAKER_00
And the conversation I had 15 minutes later, which caught me off guard because I did the read earlier, was a really successful conversation.
1
SPEAKER_00
What was that conversation?
1
SPEAKER_00
I needed a favor from somebody and I did.
1
SPEAKER_00
I said, am I offending you if I ask you for this favor?
1
SPEAKER_00
 Because I needed him to go out of my way for me.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I did the no-oriented question, and I did sort of, you know, what am I going to do if I ask him?
1
SPEAKER_00
I'd offend him.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm doing an emotional read.
1
SPEAKER_00
I throw the two of them together on the spur of the moment, which is really kind of where you want to get.
1
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, you play the same notes over and over and over, and suddenly you combine them in the moment.
1
SPEAKER_00
 That's pretty cool.
1
SPEAKER_00
And that's why I work on minority questions all the time, and I'll do a random cold read.
1
SPEAKER_00
The TSA guy, my favorite one, I always got a bottle of water in my bag.
1
SPEAKER_00
I forget to pour out the water.
1
SPEAKER_00
TSA New Jersey.
1
SPEAKER_00
I got a New Jersey TSA guy.
1
SPEAKER_00
They don't put up with nothing.
1
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_00
So they get the water, and they're taking my bag off to the side.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now, they can almost walk me back out
3
SPEAKER_02
 you.
3
SPEAKER_02
I want them to get your book.
3
SPEAKER_02
I want them to check you out.
3
SPEAKER_02
BlackSwanLTD.com slash newsletter.
3
SPEAKER_02
Is that right?
3
SPEAKER_00
Slash the dash edge.
3
SPEAKER_00
The newsletter is the edge.
3
SPEAKER_00
Gotcha.
3
SPEAKER_00
But the website, the website is a gold mine.
3
SPEAKER_02
 Yes, there's a lot of free stuff so much good stuff there Yeah, I mean they got to get your book, you know If you're watching this or listening, you got to get your book.
3
SPEAKER_02
That's step one go through that or split the difference.
3
SPEAKER_02
It's incredible So, I don't know how many copies have you sold now you sold so many, you know worldwide.
3
SPEAKER_00
We're over three million three million It's incredible man.
3
SPEAKER_00
That's the other good thing about it.
3
SPEAKER_00
This works in every country.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes, like I'm in Dubai.
3
SPEAKER_00
I
3
SPEAKER_00
 young female, Asian female walks up to me.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don't know until I assess.
3
SPEAKER_00
She tells me she's Chinese.
3
SPEAKER_00
She says, I negotiate with your book all the time.
3
SPEAKER_00
I go, let me get this straight.
3
SPEAKER_00
 You're in China, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
She's like, yeah, I'm Chinese.
3
SPEAKER_00
I'm like, okay, so you're using Never Split the Difference to negotiate with Chinese people in China.
3
SPEAKER_00
And she's like, yeah, just wanna make sure.
3
SPEAKER_02
That's cool.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, three million copies.
3
SPEAKER_02
So if you guys don't have the book yet, get the book, BlackSwanLTD.com.
3
SPEAKER_02
So many good resources, articles, all this different stuff you got on there.
3
SPEAKER_02
I love all your stuff there.
3
SPEAKER_02
Thanks.
3
SPEAKER_02
 We've got a couple previous interviews with you.
3
SPEAKER_02
We'll make sure to link those up.
3
SPEAKER_02
But I think this was a good refresher and some more stories you shared here, which was really cool.
3
SPEAKER_02
Always a pleasure having you on.
3
SPEAKER_02
I've got a question for you.
3
SPEAKER_02
How else can we be of support and service to you today?
3
SPEAKER_02
Besides people getting the newsletter, getting the book, following you on social media.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, what we're trying to do, and you and I talked about this a little bit before, so I'll mention it again.
3
SPEAKER_00
We're trying to slowly back into the space of improving police community, minority community relations.
3
SPEAKER_00
 And so neither side realizes how traumatized their counterparts are.
3
SPEAKER_00
So the cops, most, many street cops are suffering from traumatic stress.
3
SPEAKER_00
The communities that they're serving are suffering from worse traumatic stress.
3
SPEAKER_00
So it's not surprising that there's problems.
3
SPEAKER_00
 So what we're trying to do is gently, quietly figure out ways to increase understanding with the other side.
3
SPEAKER_00
So if you're in law enforcement, spend some time in a community where you're not on the job.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you're in a community that needs cops but is not getting along with them,
3
SPEAKER_00
 Whatever you could do to give a cop a break, to take it a little bit easier on them, to not honk at them when they're blocking traffic, to realize they're not intentionally trying to screw up my day.
3
SPEAKER_00
We're just gently trying to get into the space, ever so gently, because these are two communities that need each other.
3
SPEAKER_02
How are you guys doing that, or how can people support that?
3
SPEAKER_00
 One of our trainers, Troy Smith, has got an organization called Walk a Mile in My Shoes.
3
SPEAKER_00
And he's developing relationships between the police and disadvantaged communities, which is really euphemism for black.
3
SPEAKER_00
By and large, the communities that struggle the most on a regular basis, for whatever reasons, there's no shortage of blame across the board.
3
SPEAKER_00
 Nobody, no group is without sin.
3
SPEAKER_00
But what Troy's doing with Walk A Mile In My Shoes is making a difference.
3
SPEAKER_02
That's cool, okay.
3
SPEAKER_02
Where can they check that out or learn more?
3
SPEAKER_02
 They Google walk a mile in my shoes.
3
SPEAKER_00
I'll probably find it or yeah Yeah, he should I think they've got it set up on on his website But or email us, okay email info at black swan ltd.com Say you want to be supportive of walk a mile in my shoes nice, and we'll turn you on to him.
3
SPEAKER_02
Okay, cool I don't acknowledge you Chris for your constant you constantly showing up and giving people tools strategies
3
SPEAKER_02
 Resources to become better communicators to become better negotiators in ethical win-win situations not manipulative situations for Giving people strategies to have a more enriched life.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, and it's really cool.
3
SPEAKER_02
You continue to show up this way So appreciate you for for all that you're doing and the consistent effort you add to the world
3
SPEAKER_02
 I've asked you this question before, but I'll see if it's different.
3
SPEAKER_02
Three truths questions.
3
SPEAKER_02
Let's imagine it's your last day on earth.
3
SPEAKER_02
 And you've accomplished everything you want, but for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your work with you.
3
SPEAKER_02
So no one has access to your books or your messages or this interview.
3
SPEAKER_02
It's gone.
3
SPEAKER_02
But you get to leave behind three lessons to the world.
3
SPEAKER_02
And this is all we would have of your wisdom, your life experience that you would share behind.
3
SPEAKER_02
What would be those three truths for you?
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, um, before you disagree with anybody, see if you can lay out what their position is.
3
SPEAKER_00
 how they see it.
3
SPEAKER_00
You're free to disagree all you want.
3
SPEAKER_00
But you gotta lay out, before I disagree, as near as I can tell, this is how you feel about this.
3
SPEAKER_00
And lay it out in a way that they would say, that's right.
3
SPEAKER_00
Then you can disagree all you want.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like if people would just do that, the amount of stress and anxiety in the world would decrease.
3
SPEAKER_02
Because they would feel seen and heard and understood.
3
SPEAKER_02
Right.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_02
That's number one.
3
SPEAKER_00
That's one.
3
SPEAKER_00
And how many more do I gotta do?
3
SPEAKER_00
Two more.
3
SPEAKER_00
 Don't quit, because your competition is going to.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, the McDonald's movie, The Founder.
3
SPEAKER_00
 You know, depending upon how, what you thought of that movie, Michael Keaton in that role, you know, early on he's listening to a motivational speaker, you know, persistence, persistence, persistence.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then after he's a big success, he's given the same speech.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, and it's cliche, you know, to be persistent.
3
SPEAKER_00
But the reality is your competition's gonna quit.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, the Black Swan team, we're not gonna quit.
3
SPEAKER_00
 And we're not in a hurry.
3
SPEAKER_00
But by and large, all of our competition in our space is slowly falling by the wayside because they're going to quit.
3
SPEAKER_00
They're going to stop learning.
3
SPEAKER_00
They're going to lay back on their laurels.
3
SPEAKER_00
And that's just not our competition.
3
SPEAKER_00
 your competition's gonna quit.
3
SPEAKER_00
So all you gotta do, Molly Bloom says you never lose.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you don't quit, you can't lose.
3
SPEAKER_00
Your competition's gonna quit if you just don't give up.
3
SPEAKER_00
All you gotta do, there is no finish line.
3
SPEAKER_00
Look at it, all the different ways that you hear it from other directions.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like there's no finish line, like when am I gonna be done?
3
SPEAKER_00
Your competition's gonna quit.
3
SPEAKER_00
So if you don't quit,
3
SPEAKER_00
 You're going to outlast the people that you're competing against.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then finally, just learn slowly.
3
SPEAKER_00
There's a phrase out there, you know, the only sustainable competitive advantage is to learn faster than your competition.
3
SPEAKER_00
Don't pressure yourself to learn fast.
3
SPEAKER_00
Because if you don't quit and you just learn slowly,
3
SPEAKER_00
 then those two things are gonna build.
3
SPEAKER_00
But if you pressure yourself to learn fast, like you have a bad day, somebody takes you out, and you have a great night out.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, you know, I'm old enough these days, like I can drink as much as I used to, but it takes me two days to get over it instead of a half a day.
3
SPEAKER_00
But if I got heavy pressure on myself to learn a lot every day, and I lose a day, now I'm kicking myself, because I feel like I lost a lot.
3
SPEAKER_00
But if I only wanna learn a little bit each day,
3
SPEAKER_00
 and I got a day where I'm in the tank, and I didn't do any good, and I didn't get out of bed, or I didn't eat right.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, I haven't lost a lot.
3
SPEAKER_00
I can recover from a lost day very easily if I don't pressure myself for each day to be big.
3
SPEAKER_00
So just learn just a little bit each day, and don't quit, and you're gonna get to meet interesting, cool people like Lewis Howes.
3
SPEAKER_02
There you go, there you go, I love it.
3
SPEAKER_02
Final question, what's your definition of greatness?
3
SPEAKER_00
 for a man to be a gentleman.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I realize that some people wanna say these are chauvinistic terms, the equivalent term for a woman would be the lady.
3
SPEAKER_00
But somebody close to me once pointed out the highest compliment you could ever pay a man is referred to him as a gentleman.
3
SPEAKER_00
So integrity, polite, hardworking, look out for other people.
3
SPEAKER_00
I stand when a woman walks in a room.
3
SPEAKER_00
 I pull out a chair.
3
SPEAKER_00
My girlfriend cannot get into a vehicle that I don't open a door for.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, that to me, to be a gentleman is to be a success.
3
SPEAKER_00
And there's an equivalent term, whatever that term might be, regardless of your gender or your gender orientation, whatever it is to be a good human being and whatever that label is that doesn't restrict you, but, you know, calls you to be your highest self.
3
SPEAKER_02
Chris, appreciate it, man.
3
SPEAKER_02
Thank you, brother.
3
SPEAKER_02
 Thank you so much for listening.
3
SPEAKER_02
I hope you enjoyed today's episode and inspired you on your journey towards greatness.
3
SPEAKER_02
Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links.
3
SPEAKER_02
And also make sure to share this with a friend and subscribe over on Apple Podcasts as well.
3
SPEAKER_02
 I really love hearing feedback from you guys, so share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most.
3
SPEAKER_02
And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.
3
SPEAKER_02
And now it's time to go out there and do something great.