1
SPEAKER_00
 What is I going to do for myself as opposed to I'm going to have a cookie every day?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Whether I work out every day or don't work out every day versus if I do this thing five days a week for a month, then I get a cookie.
1
SPEAKER_00
Am I going to be happier during that entire month or less happy with the go for the month, then you get the cookie versus I get a cookie every day?
1
SPEAKER_01
Right, right.
1
SPEAKER_01
 Happy can mean different things, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
So for example, if I say, I'm happy that I'm going to get a new iPhone, it's a different feeling than saying, I'm happy because I just got this new iPhone.
1
SPEAKER_01
 Those are two very, very different things.
1
SPEAKER_00
What's the difference between the levels of happiness of, I'm going to get something versus I just got it?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
So when you are happy about something that's going to happen, it makes you feel excited, energized.
1
SPEAKER_01
Maybe it makes you feel strong and powerful and confident.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like you know it's coming.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
OK.
1
SPEAKER_01
When you're happy because you have something, it makes you feel satisfied and fulfilled.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it's like,
1
SPEAKER_01
 And those are very different feelings.
1
SPEAKER_01
Some people like one more than the other.
1
SPEAKER_01
Others like the other.
1
SPEAKER_01
How much dopamine comes in either form?
1
SPEAKER_01
With the second, there is zero dopamine.
1
SPEAKER_01
It turns off.
1
SPEAKER_00
Once you get something, once you get an award, once you get the cookie, once you buy something,
1
SPEAKER_00
 Within minutes, dopamine turns off.
1
SPEAKER_00
Turns off.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because you already have it now.
1
SPEAKER_01
Because now it's in the peripersonal.
1
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
1
SPEAKER_01
And dopamine doesn't function in peripersonal.
1
SPEAKER_01
Really?
1
SPEAKER_01
And so for some people, that's a moment of disappointment.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's so interesting you say this because most of my young adult life, let's say, for years, I would spend 10 or 15 years with a goal.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Sports.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was like, I'm gonna be an all-american athlete.
1
SPEAKER_00
I said this when I was five years old and I remember and I was a two-sport all-american I said I was gonna be a professional athlete all these different things and I remember when I the first time I became an all-american athlete There was so much joy
1
SPEAKER_00
 like an anticipation getting like before it actually happened right and the buildup and the training and the hard work and the failures and all these different things and then my name got called for being in the top eight in the country in the decathlon.
1
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I remember feeling like so like
1
SPEAKER_00
 Excited and happy for a moment and then maybe 10 20 minutes later.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was really sad depressed angry Kind of moody.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was kind of moving and my family was there was supposed to be the celebration We're having dinner and I was kind of like moody.
1
SPEAKER_00
I didn't want to be around anyone almost as if you were coming off cocaine Maybe I've never been on a cocaine.
1
SPEAKER_00
But yeah, maybe that's how that's what that's what yeah people It was weird and I was like kind of like didn't want to be around anyone Wow, you know, so I
1
SPEAKER_00
 Dopamine crush.
1
SPEAKER_00
Is that what it is?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you're having a dopamine crush.
1
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that's crazy But I wonder if it's because I wasn't really celebrating the moments in between like enough It's more like I can't keep pushing until I hit this goal and when I have it then I'll be satisfied, but I wasn't satisfied.
1
SPEAKER_01
Mm-hmm
1
SPEAKER_00
 Now I have a more of approach where I'm like, I'm gonna enjoy and celebrate every day the best way I can.
1
SPEAKER_00
And appreciate every day.
1
SPEAKER_00
All the ups and downs and everything that comes in between and find
1
SPEAKER_00
 appreciation for my health and my relationships and the work that I'm doing, even if it's not the biggest successful day, and I feel much more balanced in that approach.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm not sure if that's something you talk about, but.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, I think it's another example of you pay attention to the little things and the big things take care of themselves.
1
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know, just related to your decathlon story, I was once giving a talk and there was an artist in the audience, and he told me the most miserable times of his life are when he finishes a piece of artwork.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh my goodness, really?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
 When he finishes it, he's like, now he's miserable.
1
SPEAKER_01
Now he's miserable.
1
SPEAKER_01
I had so much fun writing this book.
1
SPEAKER_01
And when I finished the book, it was a real sense of loss.
1
SPEAKER_01
Really?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, because that part of my life was over.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because that was done.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
So what do we do when we accomplish something, when we achieve, when we create, when we ship, when we launch, when we build, when we...
1
SPEAKER_00
 post, how do we not have this dopamine depression?
1
SPEAKER_01
That's such a dopaminergic question.
1
SPEAKER_01
The correct answer is you just experience whatever happens in the present moment.
1
SPEAKER_01
So if you finish a work of art and you're miserable, be miserable, because that's what life is about.
1
SPEAKER_01
Life is not about always being on the top of the world.
1
SPEAKER_01
In order to enjoy the good moments, you have to suffer through the bad moments.
1
SPEAKER_01
 and live those suffering bad moments.
1
SPEAKER_00
That's part of life.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think it's also what's worked for me is to have, and maybe there's some psychological term behind this, but it's having a meaningful mission for my life where
1
SPEAKER_00
 It doesn't matter if I'm accomplishing something, my mission is to be of service.
1
SPEAKER_00
And whether that's just saying hi to someone and being of service in the moment, or doing it in a grander way of reaching millions of people in a day with a piece of content, my mission is to be of service and to be as joyful as possible.
1
SPEAKER_00
 And I can do that at all stages.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's like I don't have to be accomplishing the biggest things in order to be living that mission.
1
SPEAKER_00
That helps me kind of manage those emotional ups and downs, I think.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think that's so insightful.
1
SPEAKER_01
 We talk about what can we do to be happy, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
But we forget that pursuing happiness is really not the best way to get happiness really pursuing meaning You pursue meaning and happiness will just come
1
SPEAKER_01
 Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
What's the meaning for you?
1
SPEAKER_01
What's your mission, or meaningful mission?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so it changes a lot, you know?
1
SPEAKER_01
And we were talking about the unconscious mind earlier, and I think that that's where your mission comes from.
1
SPEAKER_01
A lot of people say, well, I want to be this kind of person.
1
SPEAKER_01
I want to be the kind of person who cares about the environment, or cares about poverty, or that.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so they go, and they're like,
1
SPEAKER_01
 Gosh, I don't really care that much.
1
SPEAKER_01
You've got to find out what you really care for and then pursue that.
1
SPEAKER_01
How do you know what you really care for?
1
SPEAKER_01
It has to do with paying attention.
1
SPEAKER_01
You've got to stop thinking about, what do I wish I were like?
1
SPEAKER_01
 and start paying attention to, what am I really like?
1
SPEAKER_01
Okay, I'm miserable.
1
SPEAKER_01
You can ask yourself, what can I do not to be miserable?
1
SPEAKER_01
Or you can say, let me see what this misery feels like.
1
SPEAKER_01
Let me get to know this misery better, because then I'll get to know myself better.
1
SPEAKER_01
When was the most miserable time in your life?
1
SPEAKER_01
 I know about your childhood.
1
SPEAKER_01
I had a tough childhood, too.
1
SPEAKER_01
My parents divorced when I was eight years old, and they hated each other.
1
SPEAKER_00
And they- It's not fun growing up in a household with people that are arguing and screaming and not expressing love with one another.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's really challenging.
1
SPEAKER_01
And their hatred for one another was so intense, they had no bandwidth left over to care for their kids.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, man.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so we were just kind of out there fending for ourselves.
1
SPEAKER_01
 Trying to figure things out my gosh.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, how long did it take you to heal those?
1
SPEAKER_00
memories and wounds any day now it's Wow, okay, but um, that's part of who I am.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, of course That's what drives you to be of service and help people find healing and relief That's right.
1
SPEAKER_00
And what you care about because of the pain.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and also, um, you know, I often think that I
1
SPEAKER_01
 I don't have a lot of self-confidence.
1
SPEAKER_01
It's hard for me to see myself as a good and worthy person.
1
SPEAKER_01
Really?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so it drives me to do things like write books and, you know, study hard.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I try to say, look, this is what my life is, and I'm going to have gratitude for the good parts of it.
1
SPEAKER_01
I'm not going to say, oh, I wish it were something else.
1
SPEAKER_00
Are a lot of people
1
SPEAKER_00
 making decisions based on survival strategy, like creating survival strategies.
1
SPEAKER_00
It sounds like you went into this, and you're like, I'm gonna work really hard, I'm gonna study extra hard, I'm gonna become on the board of this and the board of this and teach here and write these books and learn more and more to try to serve to find that worthiness and I guess self-confidence.
1
SPEAKER_00
And same thing for me in a different approach.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was like, I'm gonna care about everyone in the world, you know?
1
SPEAKER_00
Because I felt like no one cared about me.
1
SPEAKER_00
So it's like, I gotta find a strategy.
1
SPEAKER_00
 And I feel like I've gone beyond that now where I've really loved myself and cared for myself and healed the inner child and I'm on that journey of healing.
1
SPEAKER_00
But it's a journey, man.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes, it is.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's a journey.
1
SPEAKER_01
It sure is, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
 Yeah, and I think it's important to recognize that, that we're not where we need to be, that we still have a lot of growing to do.
1
SPEAKER_01
And we've got to enjoy the ride.
1
SPEAKER_01
We can't always be focused on what's next.
1
SPEAKER_00
So how much, I mean, this is something you study.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is something you teach.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is something you are a practitioner in.
1
SPEAKER_00
You have clients and patients in this.
1
SPEAKER_00
On a scale of one to 10,
1
SPEAKER_00
 10 being the most, one being the least, how much self-love and worthiness do you have for yourself?
1
SPEAKER_01
Those who can't do teach.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I work on it.
1
SPEAKER_01
When I started writing this book, I started meditating.
1
SPEAKER_01
As I was writing this book, I started meditating, because I began to realize how dopaminergic I was.
1
SPEAKER_01
Dopamine what?
1
SPEAKER_01
Dopaminergic.
1
SPEAKER_01
Dopaminergic.
1
SPEAKER_01
What does that mean?
1
SPEAKER_00
It's just an adjective.
1
SPEAKER_00
Allergic to dopamine?
1
SPEAKER_00
No, no, no.
1
SPEAKER_01
 It means very focused on dopamine.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay that the future the future the future the future not the now Yes, so meditation breathing strategies bring you back into now, right, right And what happens to people that are only focused on the future?
1
SPEAKER_01
 I think that they're very unhappy because you can't be satisfied because if you're satisfied it comes to a screeching halt, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
And your mind is always somewhere else.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so, you know, sometimes I'm walking down the street to work.
1
SPEAKER_01
 And I just noticed what a beautiful world it is.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know, the birds are singing.
1
SPEAKER_01
I love that.
1
SPEAKER_01
I'm smelling flowers in the air.
1
SPEAKER_00
Good for you.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's good practice.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
If you're always focused on the future, you never get that.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think that one of the things I realized is that reality, and reality only exists in the present, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
The future is always unreal.
1
SPEAKER_01
 Reality is a million times richer than anything that we can imagine.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so if you're always thinking about what might be in the future, you're living in this poor, thin, pale world.
1
SPEAKER_01
Whereas if you're in the richness of reality, it's a much nicer place to live.
1
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
1
SPEAKER_00
So reality is a beautiful place.
1
SPEAKER_00
 The future, the imagination can seem like a beautiful place in our mind.
1
SPEAKER_00
Imagining something, a world, an experience, an environment that we don't have yet that might improve the quality of our current reality.
1
SPEAKER_00
Is that right though?
1
SPEAKER_00
So there's a beauty of thinking creativity.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think Einstein talked about like imagination is one of the most powerful things a human can do or whatever.
1
SPEAKER_00
So imagining something greater than where you're suffering or where maybe you're not as fulfilled or happy.
1
SPEAKER_00
 So it kind of sounds like a dance.
1
SPEAKER_00
It is.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because if you were unworthy and didn't love yourself and were growing up scared in this environment, you don't want to be in that environment anymore.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
There's a reality that's not helpful.
1
SPEAKER_01
And that taught me to be somewhere else.
1
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_01
Not a healthy habit to acquire.
1
SPEAKER_00
 But it helps you get out of that current state of pain and suffering.
1
SPEAKER_00
So it sounds like a dance, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
It's a dance.
1
SPEAKER_01
You got to go back and forth.
1
SPEAKER_00
You can't just say, I'm going to enjoy my parents screaming at each other and feeling worthless.
1
SPEAKER_00
You don't want to just enjoy that, do you?
1
SPEAKER_01
 Right, right, right, it's a dance, it's a balance.
1
SPEAKER_01
Now some people choose, for example, like a Tibetan monk, right, they're gonna say no dopamine.
1
SPEAKER_01
They're gonna choose to live their entire life having gratitude for the present moment.
1
SPEAKER_01
And there are ways of putting people in a brain scanner and telling how happy they are, and Tibetan monks score highest on that score than anybody else.
1
SPEAKER_00
On happiness.
1
SPEAKER_01
On happiness.
1
SPEAKER_01
 Because they're just grateful in the moment for everything, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, they are.
1
SPEAKER_01
Tough, tough path for Westerners to follow.
1
SPEAKER_00
We have a different destiny.
1
SPEAKER_00
We want more.
1
SPEAKER_01
We want more, and we want to be like Einstein.
1
SPEAKER_01
We want to create things that never existed before, and there's a real nobility in that.
1
SPEAKER_01
The Tibetan monks have their own nobility, but there's also a nobility in creation, which they don't engage in.
1
SPEAKER_00
And evolution and building and evolving, yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
So scale one to 10, where are you?
1
SPEAKER_01
 Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
So if one is the Tibetan monk and ten is the... Well, ten is like the happiest.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, the happiest, the happiest, I see.
1
SPEAKER_01
And one is the most... Yeah, I'd say I'm about a six, maybe, on a good day, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
That's good.
1
SPEAKER_01
How about you?
1
SPEAKER_00
I feel like I'm a eight, nine.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, nice.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I really practice...
1
SPEAKER_00
 especially with my girlfriend, waking up and literally just being like, I'm so grateful for you.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm grateful for this moment, I'm grateful for waking up, I'm grateful for my body.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then I do things that bring me more gratitude for the actions I'm taking.
1
SPEAKER_00
So this morning I woke up early, I did a workout, and I'm like, man, I'm so grateful for taking this action, because I know it's gonna help my future self.
1
SPEAKER_00
So it's kind of like being present, but also,
1
SPEAKER_00
 I'll do something weird with my mind where I imagine myself years in the future next to me, it's kind of weird, and saying like, thank you for taking care of my future.
1
SPEAKER_00
Thank you for, now we're gonna have a better, healthier existence because of this hour exercise.
1
SPEAKER_00
Form of love.
1
SPEAKER_00
 It's like loving myself from the future to now.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
Which kind of sounds weird.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don't know if psychologically that's called anything, but it's future casting.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's like appreciating myself in the future for what I'm doing now.
1
SPEAKER_00
So interesting.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's melding the future and the present.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Yeah, but it's it's thinking about the future but just saying I'm so grateful for what I'm doing in this moment and appreciating the moment So I think my girlfriend does a great job of it of bringing presence Also, I can be thinking about what I want to create for my business non-stop all day Yeah, I wanted to mm-hmm.
1
SPEAKER_00
I can go home at night and I can just keep working
1
SPEAKER_00
 But with her, it's like she, you know, I wouldn't say demands it, but she is a force of presence that requires me to be present with her.
1
SPEAKER_00
She'll just come sit right in front of me and put her face in front of me, you know, it's like, so I have to, you know, okay, let me just.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Let's talk.
1
SPEAKER_00
Excuse me, I exist.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, well, it's not that I'm not, I'm avoiding her or something, but she just comes in and she'll sit next to me or she'll just come and hug me and it's just like, okay, I'm gonna be present with her for however long we're gonna be present for.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I think that's a helpful thing for people to be in relationships with other human beings where they see people, where they are required to be present.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so it's a beautiful gift.
1
SPEAKER_01
And by taking that time away from your work,
1
SPEAKER_01
 It probably actually makes you get more work done.
1
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_01
That's the thing I struggle with my patients.
1
SPEAKER_01
A lot of my patients are constantly working, working, working, and they're terrified that if they take the slightest breath, the house of cards will come tumbling down.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I say to them, if you take time off, you're actually going to get more work done.
1
SPEAKER_01
I believe it.
1
SPEAKER_00
 I was interviewing this pastor, Pastor Michael Todd.
1
SPEAKER_00
He runs a Christian church in the Midwest.
1
SPEAKER_00
And he said one of the best pieces of advice he got from one of his mentor pastors, who was kind of mentoring him as he was growing up in the world of the church, said, every year, take one month off where you don't do any work.
1
SPEAKER_00
There's no laptop, there's no emails, there's no nothing.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Play, fun, family, vacation, whatever it is.
1
SPEAKER_00
And he was like, a month?
1
SPEAKER_00
That's so much time.
1
SPEAKER_00
And he says it's non-negotiable.
1
SPEAKER_00
Every year he's been doing this.
1
SPEAKER_00
And he says, I come back.
1
SPEAKER_00
I come up with the greatest ideas.
1
SPEAKER_00
And he's like, that's where I came up with the idea for my next book that was a New York Times bestseller, from that space in between the work.
1
SPEAKER_00
 And he's like, there's an urge to want to start working, but I just have to pause.
1
SPEAKER_00
And when I came back, then I had all this energy and creativity and focus to get it done faster.
1
SPEAKER_01
One of the things that requires is trust.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know, we spoke a lot about how we want to be in control of things.
1
SPEAKER_01
How do you make yourself enthusiastic?
1
SPEAKER_01
How do you make yourself interested?
1
SPEAKER_01
No, you have to trust.
1
SPEAKER_01
You take the month off.
1
SPEAKER_01
 and maybe it will be a complete waste of time, or maybe you'll come up with a New York Times bestselling book.
1
SPEAKER_01
Right?
1
SPEAKER_00
How much time have you ever taken off since you started your practice?
1
SPEAKER_00
 Have you taken a half day off yet?
1
SPEAKER_01
I take long weekends.
1
SPEAKER_01
I like long weekends.
1
SPEAKER_01
That's good.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I can't take off, it's hard for me to take off a full week.
1
SPEAKER_01
Really?
1
SPEAKER_01
I just don't know what to do with myself.
1
SPEAKER_01
You have kids?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
How many kids do you have?
1
SPEAKER_01
I got two boys.
1
SPEAKER_01
Two boys, how old?
1
SPEAKER_01
They are now 25 and 20.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Wow, okay, cool.
1
SPEAKER_00
One of the best things I did for myself, this was probably four or five years ago, I came to a realization where I said, wow, for 15 years, every day I've had my phone, I've touched my phone.
1
SPEAKER_00
Maybe not all day, but I've touched my phone for 15 years.
1
SPEAKER_00
This was probably four years ago or something, or five years ago.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because I got my first cell phone in 2000, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
So it was like, maybe it was six years ago or whatever, seven years ago.
1
SPEAKER_00
 But I was like, 15 years, I've touched my phone every day since 2000, so this must have been 2015.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I said, what's a challenge for me?
1
SPEAKER_00
What's something that seems like I could never do?
1
SPEAKER_00
And I said, going away for a week and not having my phone with me.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so I made a commitment.
1
SPEAKER_00
I said, I'm gonna go to, I went to Hawaii by myself.
1
SPEAKER_00
 left my phone and laptop at home.
1
SPEAKER_00
No electronics on me.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it felt so uncomfortable the first day and a half because first off, I forgot where my rental car was, so I went to every rental car place and said, did I get this here?
1
SPEAKER_00
I didn't even have all the information.
1
SPEAKER_00
I didn't have a GPS in my phone, so I stopped at gas stations asking for directions to hotels.
1
SPEAKER_00
It felt like back in 1995, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
 And after the second day, it felt like the most incredible surrender and peace.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was like laying in the ocean, not thinking about, oh, my phone is on the beach or I need to like check something.
1
SPEAKER_00
 And I almost didn't want to go back to having a phone.
1
SPEAKER_00
I want to do that.
1
SPEAKER_00
It was the greatest gift I gave myself.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so my challenge to you would be to find at least a week to do that for yourself.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think Hawaii would be a good place to do it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Leave your electronics at home.
1
SPEAKER_01
That would be very hard, but I could imagine a realization coming at some point during that week saying, I've been enslaved by this and I'm finally free.
1
SPEAKER_00
That's how I felt.
1
SPEAKER_00
Freedom.
1
SPEAKER_00
It was incredible.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Okay, so you say you're at a 6 or a 7.
1
SPEAKER_00
What would it take for you, do you think, to get to an 8, 9, or 10?
1
SPEAKER_00
What is the thing, the unresolved stuff that you haven't faced that you feel like would support you in improving the quality of that
1
SPEAKER_00
 peace or joy because the reason I ask and the reason I challenge you Daniel is because I Believe your work and your message and your mission is extremely valuable for humanity and so I want you to be at an eight nine or ten to be able to give more from that space of Self-love and worthiness because I feel like you'll be able to serve at a higher level at that space So that's why I'm challenging you and asking you this.
1
SPEAKER_00
I
1
SPEAKER_01
 Yeah, so...
1
SPEAKER_01
 One of the things I've been doing more is learning to say no.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, that's good.
1
SPEAKER_01
So creating a boundary.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
When I first started my career as a psychiatrist, I decided that I was gonna say yes to everything.
1
SPEAKER_01
You have to when you're starting.
1
SPEAKER_01
You have to.
1
SPEAKER_01
You've gotta build something.
1
SPEAKER_01
You've gotta build.
1
SPEAKER_01
You've gotta be the guy that people will go to and they know the job will get done.
1
SPEAKER_01
I'll show up here, I'll take on this project, I'll do whatever you need.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
 And that worked out really, really well, but then that became my habit.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I started finding myself getting resentful.
1
SPEAKER_01
I felt like I was giving, giving, giving, and I wasn't getting what I expected in return.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so then I just started saying, no, I won't do that.
1
SPEAKER_00
In my happiness way.
1
SPEAKER_00
It went up a lot.
1
SPEAKER_00
That's one of the most powerful things.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think it took me the longest to learn that in intimate relationships, where I would,
1
SPEAKER_00
 choose, I don't blame anyone that I ever dated, but I would choose certain relationships and then I felt like I needed to say yes to make them happy or to do what they wanted for whatever it was.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I realized the things that I didn't want to say yes to.
1
SPEAKER_00
So it was never them, it was about me abandoning myself and being in constant abandonment of my own self-love or what I really wanted.
1
SPEAKER_00
 And so I think when I learned that lesson, it's been such a beautiful, peaceful environment inside in that.
1
SPEAKER_00
And when I started doing that in business years ago as well, and I found like, wow, I have so much more freedom and peace from that.
1
SPEAKER_00
So I think that's a beautiful.
1
SPEAKER_01
 thing that you're doing.
1
SPEAKER_01
One of the things my wife said to me is that when you open your hand to let go of something, your hand is now able to get the next thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
Right.
1
SPEAKER_01
And you can't receive the next gift unless you're able to give up the last one.
1
SPEAKER_00
That's so true.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was asking you before about this.
1
SPEAKER_00
You see patients almost every day or a few days a week?
1
SPEAKER_00
Every day.
1
SPEAKER_00
Every day?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
And what type of practice is it that
1
SPEAKER_00
 people come to you for?
1
SPEAKER_00
What is the main thing that people come to you for?
1
SPEAKER_01
My expertise is psychopharmacology.
1
SPEAKER_01
That is using medications to treat psychiatric illnesses.
1
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_01
And my specialty is bipolar disorder.
1
SPEAKER_01
Really?
1
SPEAKER_01
Depression, and depression as well.
1
SPEAKER_01
Where does depression and bipolar disorder stem from?
1
SPEAKER_01
What is the root cause?
1
SPEAKER_01
It's really biological.
1
SPEAKER_01
Really?
1
SPEAKER_01
 You know, in the old days, we would look at a person's past, and that has an effect.
1
SPEAKER_01
How healthy the environment they grew up in is going to determine their strength to recover.
1
SPEAKER_01
But really, it's about a genetic vulnerability.
1
SPEAKER_00
Really?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
But don't some people get in more depressed states, seasons of life, or if something traumatic happens, they might be in a depressed state, but other times they can be in a less depressed state?
1
SPEAKER_01
 Well, one of the challenges that we face is separating normal emotional experiences in life from medical illnesses.
1
SPEAKER_00
Got you.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know, one of the challenges that psychiatry faces is that it's often not viewed as a medical specialty in the same way that cardiology or pulmonology is, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
Because it can't be seen really, I guess, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
It's more in the mind.
1
SPEAKER_01
That's right.
1
SPEAKER_01
And also because the brain is so hideously complex.
1
SPEAKER_01
 You know, the heart's a pump.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don't want to dish my cardiology colleagues, but the heart's a pump.
1
SPEAKER_00
The brain is like a hundred trillion freaking cells.
1
SPEAKER_00
And yeah, we just had a brain surgeon on recently who was a neuroscientist as well.
1
SPEAKER_00
He's done over a thousand brain surgeries.
1
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
1
SPEAKER_00
He's like, you could cut out a piece of the brain.
1
SPEAKER_00
 where they think is, you know, I can't remember exactly what he said, but it's called the analytical side of the brain.
1
SPEAKER_00
You could cut out a piece of it and the person can still be analytical because the brain can readjust and rework itself.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's like this, yeah, incredible...
1
SPEAKER_01
 Yeah, and it's complexity makes psychiatry a younger science because we don't understand as much about our organ as our cardiologist colleagues do.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so I think that in some ways we get less respect because we're kind of, we're at a much more primitive level.
1
SPEAKER_01
 Yes, but it's still medicine.
1
SPEAKER_01
It's still medicine and we still approach it scientifically and and when the brain is broken That's different than when people are going through difficult experiences in their life Got you and their brain is responding the way you would expect it to the hard things.
1
SPEAKER_00
I asked you before I said what's been the biggest I guess challenge over the last year what type of people have come to you in the last year and you said
1
SPEAKER_00
 What do you say specifically people who might have an extreme mental illness versus people who are going through extreme adverse challenges?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes, so you know all of my patients are being treated for a mental illness and you know usually once they get better it holds and they stay better but not always.
1
SPEAKER_01
So they're coming in and they're saying gosh I'm feeling like I did before I saw you.
1
SPEAKER_01
 Did the treatment you gave me stop working, or is it because I'm stressed out and upset, just like all my friends who don't have mental illnesses?
1
SPEAKER_00
 you know, heal a wound that they haven't healed, or they need to heal a trauma, or they need to get out of a toxic relationship, or they need to stop watching the news, or they need eight hours of sleep, or, you know, eating healthier foods, or all the things lifestyle-wise that support a better feeling, a better mood.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
 I just ask them, how are the people at work doing?
1
SPEAKER_01
About the same as you?
1
SPEAKER_01
And if they say, yeah, everyone's the same as me, I'm like, healthy lifestyle.
1
SPEAKER_01
But if they say, no, everyone's pretty much okay and I can't drag myself out of bed in the morning because of this feeling of dread, I say, let's take another look at your medications.
1
SPEAKER_01
Interesting.
1
SPEAKER_01
Is there a way to heal depression without medication?
1
SPEAKER_01
There is.
1
SPEAKER_01
Mild to moderate depression can be healed without medication.
1
SPEAKER_01
 Severe depression though is going to need medication.
1
SPEAKER_01
Really?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
There's no way to get out of severe depression from extreme lifestyle shifts or again psychologically going back into childhood wounds and starting the healing journey.
1
SPEAKER_00
 creating self-love inside and finding meaning and all these different things?
1
SPEAKER_00
Doctors never say never.
1
SPEAKER_00
I like that.
1
SPEAKER_01
I'm glad you said that.
1
SPEAKER_01
We play the odds.
1
SPEAKER_01
Medicine is about statistics.
1
SPEAKER_01
It's about rolling the dice for the best outcome.
1
SPEAKER_01
But if you've got severe depression and you're going to try and do it without medication, the odds are way against you.
1
SPEAKER_00
 So you're saying it's much harder with severe depression where you're like, I can't get out of bed, I can't think, I can't move.
1
SPEAKER_01
It's hard to... I'm suffering from a psychosis.
1
SPEAKER_01
I'm hearing voices telling me I'm a horrible person.
1
SPEAKER_01
Severe depression is no joke.
1
SPEAKER_01
It's a real broken brain.
1
SPEAKER_01
People can have delusions.
1
SPEAKER_01
Their body is riddled with disease.
1
SPEAKER_01
They can have the delusion, I'm responsible for all the evil in the world.
1
SPEAKER_01
 It's not true, but they have this truth that's not a reality.
1
SPEAKER_01
Depression can be a fatal illness.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it leads to suicide.
2
SPEAKER_01
 So it's an illness to be taken very, very seriously.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
So if it's extreme, then medication you're saying is the way to get out of the extreme to start saying, okay, now you have some more balance.
2
SPEAKER_01
Let's start changing lifestyle stuff to see if that'll help you.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
And increase the mood or.
2
SPEAKER_00
 You know, if somebody has that extreme of depression, it's generally a chronic illness.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that's not to say that lifestyle and other changes isn't going to be incredibly helpful.
2
SPEAKER_00
But, you know, let's think about diabetes.
2
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes people can overcome diabetes with lifestyle changes.
2
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes they can't.
2
SPEAKER_00
 If they need medication, lifestyle changes will still be enormously helpful.
2
SPEAKER_00
But we don't wanna fall into the stigma of saying, well, mental illnesses don't count.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, we're gonna give the diabetic patient medication, but the guy with depression, he's gonna have to tough it out.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, there's a lot of cases now where Dr. Jason Fung is talking about reversing pre-diabetes or early stage type two diabetes, or able to reverse it.
2
SPEAKER_01
 through fasting, through eliminating certain foods and lifestyle changes.
2
SPEAKER_01
But the farther along it is, it's obviously much harder to reverse without having medication or something like that.
2
SPEAKER_01
That's interesting.
2
SPEAKER_01
Now, I'm curious about this.
2
SPEAKER_01
I'm forgetting the doctor I had on, the name of him.
2
SPEAKER_01
I'll have to come back and think about it.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I asked him about different stages of his life.
2
SPEAKER_01
He's probably in his 70s now.
2
SPEAKER_01
I'm forgetting his name.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And he, there were different stages in his life where he said, he was at lower points, more depressed type states, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Maybe not full depression, but depressed states.
2
SPEAKER_01
And lower points of enthusiasm, lower points of creativity and wanting to, you know, show up and work every day, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
And things like that.
2
SPEAKER_01
Gaining weight, all these different things.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I said, what changed?
2
SPEAKER_01
 And he said, love.
2
SPEAKER_01
He said, meeting someone and feeling powerful love changed the way I thought, changed the way I felt, changed the way I saw the world.
2
SPEAKER_01
How powerful is love when it comes to mental illness, depression, overwhelm, stress?
2
SPEAKER_01
How powerful is the feeling of love, feeling loved by another human being,
2
SPEAKER_01
 or fully loving yourself, reparenting yourself psychologically, and giving yourself a love that you'd never had as a child, or bonding with someone chemically through that feeling of love, how can that shift your depression, your states, and your
2
SPEAKER_01
 Desire to want to give and create more in the world.
2
SPEAKER_00
Mm-hmm.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think that Love involving another person is probably the single most powerful thing there.
2
SPEAKER_00
Really?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, absolutely Personally, you know when I met my wife that that was more healing than anything I'd ever experienced really for yeah that completely Changed me completely changed me as a person.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
So do you think people that are depressed have love I
2
SPEAKER_01
 Or are able to feel love?
2
SPEAKER_00
Maybe there's someone's loving them but not able to receive it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Again, I think we need to be very careful about distinguishing depression as a medical illness.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, because it's so easy to fall into the habit of blaming people for their mental illness.
2
SPEAKER_00
Say, oh, if only you loved yourself more, you wouldn't be depressed.
2
SPEAKER_00
We don't say somebody with cancer.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, you know, if only, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm just curious how powerful, if we learn to,
2
SPEAKER_00
 Receive and give and feel love.
2
SPEAKER_00
Let me give you the most powerful example I've come across.
2
SPEAKER_00
Share it with me.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it's one of the most terrible mental illnesses there is.
2
SPEAKER_00
Narcissistic personality disorder.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, this has been a massive topic that people are covering.
2
SPEAKER_01
Is that right?
2
SPEAKER_01
 a narcissistic expert therapist come on and talk about it.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I mean, it's got over a million views on our channel already from that alone.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think so many people have been in narcissistic relationships where they face this like sucking of their soul out of someone else.
2
SPEAKER_01
I know I've experienced that.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I wasn't aware of it until after the fact, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Until it's like you learn to heal your own self.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it was just like, you're not there.
2
SPEAKER_01
 It's crazy.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's crazy.
2
SPEAKER_01
So tell me more about narcissism and love and where you're going with this.
2
SPEAKER_01
So for a psychiatrist, narcissism is just brutal.
2
SPEAKER_00
How many narcissists come into your practice?
2
SPEAKER_00
When I was a resident, I was assigned a patient who had narcissism and I worked with him for two years and I did nothing for him.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And I remember a dream I had once.
2
SPEAKER_00
I was trying to climb a wall of glass and there was nowhere for me to get a hold.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that's what it was like working with this poor man.
2
SPEAKER_00
You're going to bring me back to my past now, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
There was not enough.
2
SPEAKER_00
I couldn't get it.
2
SPEAKER_00
I couldn't get a hold.
2
SPEAKER_00
And there was nothing I could do to help him change because everything was always other people's fault.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And there's never responsibility, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
This was not a bad man.
2
SPEAKER_00
I liked him, I felt sorry for him.
2
SPEAKER_00
He was miserable, but I couldn't, nothing was ever his fault.
2
SPEAKER_01
That is like the sign of a narcissist, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
One of the many signs.
2
SPEAKER_00
One of the many, many signs.
2
SPEAKER_01
If the blame ever won and never take responsibility, I'd face that in a couple of relationships.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so after two years of that, when a narcissist would come consult me, I would say, look, I can't take your money.
2
SPEAKER_01
 It's so funny, this therapist that we had on who teaches about this and educates people on what to look for with narcissism, does a YouTube channel, she was like, it's rare that I'll even treat a narcissist because they'll never wanna go to therapy.
2
SPEAKER_01
They'll only go because they're forced to go from their partner or something, or they're threatening a divorce and so they have to go.
2
SPEAKER_01
But it's like, they need to go almost every day
2
SPEAKER_01
 for years in order for them to say, you know what, I'm gonna see it differently, I'm gonna take responsibility.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then they need to stay in it in order to get out of that.
2
SPEAKER_01
How do people manage that if they're in a relationship with a narcissist?
2
SPEAKER_00
 I don't know, I think they gotta get out.
2
SPEAKER_00
That's the only solution, huh?
2
SPEAKER_00
That I can think of.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I'm not an expert in narcissism.
2
SPEAKER_00
I've never had any success.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I'll tell you something, so there's not very many therapists who can successfully treat narcissism.
2
SPEAKER_00
It takes a very special person to be able to do that.
2
SPEAKER_00
99% of therapists will get nothing done.
2
SPEAKER_00
But there is something that does reliably help narcissists.
2
SPEAKER_00
What's that?
2
SPEAKER_00
Being in a genuine love relationship.
2
SPEAKER_00
 That actually diminishes narcissism.
2
SPEAKER_01
So what do you mean by that?
2
SPEAKER_01
Not being in a relationship with them, but being in a relationship with someone else?
2
SPEAKER_00
If they are in a relationship where they truly love the other person, it's not that they just see the other person as a source of narcissistic gratification.
2
SPEAKER_00
 The other person is not just someone to be drained, that they truly love that person.
2
SPEAKER_00
But a narcissist would never do that, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
It happens, it happens.
2
SPEAKER_00
Really?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, psychiatry has been more pessimistic about personality disorders than we should be.
2
SPEAKER_00
And borderline personality disorder is another example.
2
SPEAKER_00
In the past, we've been very pessimistic.
2
SPEAKER_00
Now we're extremely optimistic and we think, oh, borderline personality disorder, there's an enormous potential for improvement.
2
SPEAKER_00
 I hope someday we'll get there with narcissism, but it's more malleable than we thought.
2
SPEAKER_00
Really?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
But not through treatment, it's through life.
2
SPEAKER_00
See, what's at the heart of narcissism is radical insecurity.
2
SPEAKER_00
Massive insecurity.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Huge insecurities.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
Massive wounds.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And they don't feel like, what, they don't love themselves?
2
SPEAKER_00
No, they don't.
2
SPEAKER_00
They feel that they are utterly unworthy.
2
SPEAKER_00
They may not be aware of it, it might be unconscious, but that's what it is, that they're utterly unworthy.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so there's this hole inside of them they're constantly trying to fill.
2
SPEAKER_00
And they fill it, you know, with other people.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that's why it's so horrible being with them, because they're just sucking out of you, trying to fill this hole.
2
SPEAKER_00
 The thing is, though, that if something real actually happens, like they do have a real relationship, or even graduating from college or getting a good job diminishes their narcissism, because suddenly they're not desperately empty.
2
SPEAKER_01
 Interesting, but it wouldn't never feel enough like well, I don't deserve this I've got this great person in front of me, but I I'm not worthy enough of deserving this I'm gonna sabotage it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I'm going to suck.
2
SPEAKER_01
I'm gonna blame them for everything still but how I feel that's what I went through it It's not yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I'm not an expert in this and as I said what I'm talking about are studies that look at statistics I would agree with you though.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think there's some narcissists.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's not gonna work.
2
SPEAKER_01
What's the difference between a narcissist who is
2
SPEAKER_01
 feels like they don't deserve, they have a massive wound, versus someone who just feels unworthy, who's not a narcissist.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like me and you growing up.
2
SPEAKER_01
Who wants to suck the life out of people and blame everyone, versus someone saying,
2
SPEAKER_01
 I know I feel unworthy, I take responsible for these, I'm responsible for these things.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it's a question of where the pain goes.
2
SPEAKER_00
The narcissist puts the pain outward on others, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
The person, because I think they're unconscious of their unworthiness.
2
SPEAKER_00
The person who is aware of their unworthiness, pain goes in.
2
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_00
And people tend to like them because they're always trying to please others.
2
SPEAKER_01
They are, yeah, that was me.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
 saying yes to everything and then resenting it later.
2
SPEAKER_00
That's fascinating.
2
SPEAKER_00
But those people tend to be more successful in life, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
The narcissists are kind of alone and miserable because nobody wants to be with them, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
The guys who are always trying to please people, well, they do good things.
2
SPEAKER_01
 They get taken care of, they get taken advantage of, yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
So what do you see for the future of the brain, dopamine, and creating happier, more fulfilling lives for ourselves when it seems like
2
SPEAKER_01
 And the statistics are showing that life expenses is actually dropping at least in the USA over the last I think 5 to 10 years, it's actually dropping now where access to foods and things that are unhealthy for the body are making us
2
SPEAKER_01
 needing these addictions more and more, cigarettes, whatever you mean, alcohol, plant medicine, all these things that people are doing to feel something.
2
SPEAKER_01
Social media, the phone, the addictions, all these different things.
2
SPEAKER_01
What do you see as the future of where we're going?
2
SPEAKER_01
And if someone truly wants to live a happier, more fulfilled life,
2
SPEAKER_01
 What can they do in the face of the next decade of just distractions?
2
SPEAKER_01
I don't think it's going to get easier for anyone with the accessibility to addictions, things, access, the now gratification.
2
SPEAKER_00
 You know, think back to our prehistoric ancestors.
2
SPEAKER_00
Can you imagine going out on a hunt for a woolly mammoth?
2
SPEAKER_00
How much fun that must have been.
2
SPEAKER_00
It'd be scary, fun, exciting.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah, like you with your buddies, like the tribe.
2
SPEAKER_00
You all depend upon one another.
2
SPEAKER_00
You all got a role.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's life or death.
2
SPEAKER_00
You could come home dead.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, you're going to bring home meat.
2
SPEAKER_00
 I bet that we don't experience anything like that our whole life that was as much fun as that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_00
Related to that, you know, like everyone, I started out life poor, you know, as a poor medical student.
2
SPEAKER_00
And now, you know, I'm financially more comfortable.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And there are things I miss about being poor.
2
SPEAKER_00
Isn't that interesting?
2
SPEAKER_00
Have you noticed that?
2
SPEAKER_01
I was sleeping on my sister's couch for a year and a half.
2
SPEAKER_01
No money.
2
SPEAKER_01
Broke.
2
SPEAKER_01
Eating mac and cheese and leftovers from her.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
I didn't have a car, so I'm walking everywhere and just like living by, I don't know, a couple hundred bucks a month.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And there's something about that time that I'm like, God, it was so exciting to see like, what could I create from this space of nothing?
2
SPEAKER_01
You're strategizing.
2
SPEAKER_00
Little wins are huge.
2
SPEAKER_00
Someone said yes to meet with me.
2
SPEAKER_00
Here's like all these things.
2
SPEAKER_00
So as our society progresses farther and farther away from scarcity, we lose those opportunities to have these incredibly big wins that are gonna change our life.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And so we we overeat on junk food.
2
SPEAKER_00
We spend time with these trivial nonsense pleasures on our cell phones Because the big things are no longer in our life.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's no longer about finding sources of food to survive It's now about you know, how many views am I gonna get with my latest post?
2
SPEAKER_01
It's not the same thing So what can we do over the next five ten years as these distractions are gonna become more prevalent?
2
SPEAKER_00
 We've got to think about meaning.
2
SPEAKER_00
We've got to think about what is meaningful.
2
SPEAKER_00
So for me, writing books has become so meaningful, and it's nice and hard, and sometimes it makes me miserable, which is good.
2
SPEAKER_00
You've got to find something that's hard, that will involve failure, because that's how hard it is.
2
SPEAKER_00
 You can't, you can't choose an easy life.
2
SPEAKER_00
Really?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
What happens if we choose an easy life?
2
SPEAKER_00
We become miserable.
2
SPEAKER_00
We become miserable, bored, fat, sick, diabetic, all of those terrible things.
2
SPEAKER_01
Do you have a chapter or a place in here that talks about meaning and finding meaning?
2
SPEAKER_01
It's my next book.
2
SPEAKER_01
That's the next book?
2
SPEAKER_00
That's the next book, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
What is that one about the unconscious mind?
2
SPEAKER_01
It's about the unconscious mind.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
And... What is the unconscious mind versus the conscious mind?
2
SPEAKER_00
 A lot of people have seen these pictures of the mind as an iceberg, right, where there's this little teeny part above the surface and huge masses below the surface.
2
SPEAKER_00
That's the unconscious mind.
2
SPEAKER_00
The unconscious mind is responsible for everything that goes on inside our heads that we don't have control over.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Emotions.
2
SPEAKER_00
Excitement.
2
SPEAKER_00
Enthusiasm.
2
SPEAKER_00
Interest.
2
SPEAKER_00
Most people don't think about this.
2
SPEAKER_00
You don't control what you're interested in, you know?
2
SPEAKER_00
Really?
2
SPEAKER_00
So somebody like football?
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
I personally don't like football.
2
SPEAKER_00
There's nothing I can, well I kind of do, but not that much, but there's nothing I can do to make myself passionate about football.
2
SPEAKER_01
Here's the thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
I'm going to challenge you on this and tell me if I'm wrong.
2
SPEAKER_01
 I never liked soccer.
2
SPEAKER_01
I played it growing up and then I stopped playing it when I was a sophomore in high school and I started playing football.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then I was like, I never want to watch soccer.
2
SPEAKER_01
The only time I was interested in soccer was during the World Cup when I was like, okay, I can get behind everyone going out and like watching game and supporting the USA, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
 but I never wanted to watch until a few years ago.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was just telling one of our producers here, Mike, that I went to a couple LAFC games.
2
SPEAKER_01
They're LA Football Club soccer team, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, this is incredible, the energy, the experience.
2
SPEAKER_01
I got to know the players, and I was like, became interested in the sport of soccer.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, I wanna go to more games.
2
SPEAKER_01
So how does that, what does that mean then?
2
SPEAKER_01
If I'm not interested, but then I become interested in something?
2
SPEAKER_01
Right, so we talked about this pastor
2
SPEAKER_00
 who took a month off and boom, the idea hit him.
2
SPEAKER_00
That came from his unconscious mind.
2
SPEAKER_00
He didn't dig it up, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
It came to him.
2
SPEAKER_00
You went to the soccer game and you were given a gift.
2
SPEAKER_00
You were given the gift of excitement.
2
SPEAKER_00
You didn't work for that.
2
SPEAKER_00
That was a gift for your unconscious mind.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that's why trust is so important, that we have to trust that these gifts will come.
2
SPEAKER_00
 We try to squeeze our unconscious mind and force it to give us things.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's going to rebel.
2
SPEAKER_00
We've got to kind of go through saying, look,
2
SPEAKER_00
 I'm not, I've got a co-pilot, or maybe I'm the pilot, maybe the other guy's, maybe I'm the co-pilot, maybe the other guy's the pilot and in charge.
2
SPEAKER_00
But it's a realization that you cannot control everything, that you have to be open to gifts that come from the unconscious mind.
2
SPEAKER_01
So it's kind of like being curious about life.
2
SPEAKER_01
I'm gonna try this thing, I'm gonna check this out and see how it makes me feel.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, can I tell the story I wanted to tell?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I did this TEDx talk, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it's a big deal.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Yeah, four years ago, wasn't it?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I practiced that every day for a month.
2
SPEAKER_00
That's great, great speech.
2
SPEAKER_00
Thank you, thank you.
2
SPEAKER_00
Every day for a month?
2
SPEAKER_00
Every single day, well, five days a week.
2
SPEAKER_00
When I went to work, first thing I did, first thing in the morning, is I ran through that speech.
2
SPEAKER_00
All right, so I get there, we do a dress rehearsal, get up there, and I'm giving my speech.
2
SPEAKER_00
 I draw a blank.
2
SPEAKER_00
Halfway through.
2
SPEAKER_00
Nothing.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm sweating.
2
SPEAKER_00
Dress rehearsal.
2
SPEAKER_00
Dress rehearsal.
2
SPEAKER_00
I got nothing.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I'm terrified.
2
SPEAKER_00
And there's a dinner that evening and I skip the dinner.
2
SPEAKER_00
I go back to my hotel room and I'm memorizing, memorizing.
2
SPEAKER_00
So now it's the day of the thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And I'm about to go out and I realize, I say, look, I didn't shirk, I wasn't lazy.
2
SPEAKER_00
I did everything I could and it wasn't enough.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so I said to my unconscious mind, we're all in this together, be a pal and help me out.
2
SPEAKER_00
 You know, I acknowledged that I didn't have control.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I was happy with that when my unconscious mind came through for me.
2
SPEAKER_00
But it came through for me as a friend, not as a servant.
2
SPEAKER_00
I didn't order it, I asked it.
2
SPEAKER_00
 So what happens to people who are extremely controlling in their life versus people that are more in surrender?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, those controlling people don't do well.
2
SPEAKER_00
Really?
2
SPEAKER_00
And a lot of times, you know, the unconscious mind has a sense of humor.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know about the Freudian slip, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
A lot of times the Freudian slip will reveal a truth that you were trying to hide, but the unconscious mind says, tough luck.
2
SPEAKER_00
You said this, yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so people are always trying to be in control.
2
SPEAKER_00
The unconscious mind is constantly sabotaging them.
2
SPEAKER_00
So the unconscious mind is in control,
2
SPEAKER_00
 We share control, we share control.
2
SPEAKER_00
And we need to work as a partnership.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's a partnership.
2
SPEAKER_00
And if you try to be the tyrant, like the people who are very much in control, the unconscious mind's gonna mess with you.
2
SPEAKER_01
 So what is the conscious mind versus the unconscious mind?
2
SPEAKER_01
The conscious mind is what?
2
SPEAKER_01
Every thought I'm thinking or saying in this moment?
2
SPEAKER_00
Or what does it mean, really?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes, the conscious mind tends to think rationally.
2
SPEAKER_00
It thinks logically.
2
SPEAKER_00
It figures things out.
2
SPEAKER_00
The conscious mind is very much about words.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it's funny, the Greek word for words is logos.
2
SPEAKER_00
That's where we get logic from.
2
SPEAKER_00
So words and logic are very much connected.
2
SPEAKER_00
 The unconscious mind doesn't use words, it uses feelings.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's about emotions, it's about a gut feeling.
2
SPEAKER_00
And people who have a good relationship with their unconscious mind, they rely a lot on their gut feeling.
2
SPEAKER_00
So they'll see someone and they'll just have this gut feeling and they'll trust it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that's their unconscious mind delivering them information.
2
SPEAKER_00
Really?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because what does the conscious mind try to do in every situation?
2
SPEAKER_00
 Well, let me give you an example.
2
SPEAKER_00
Think about the last time you said, let me sleep on that, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
When you say, let me sleep on that, that's an acknowledgement that your conscious mind can't work its way through the problem.
2
SPEAKER_00
Or it might react, or the unconscious mind might react if I... You need your unconscious mind, you know?
2
SPEAKER_00
So for example, think about making the decision about where to go to college.
2
SPEAKER_00
 There are too many variables for the conscious, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
So you visit all the different places and at some point you go, this is the right place for me.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you don't know why.
2
SPEAKER_01
There's something within your unconscious mind that just has a feeling.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
So where is the conscious and the unconscious mind?
2
SPEAKER_00
 like physically?
2
SPEAKER_00
Where is it?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's embedded in the brain circuits of the brain.
2
SPEAKER_00
Interesting, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
But the mind is not in the brain, is that right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Where is the mind?
2
SPEAKER_01
It's like, is it in the body?
2
SPEAKER_01
Is it around the body?
2
SPEAKER_01
Is it inside the brain?
2
SPEAKER_01
Where in the brain is the mind?
2
SPEAKER_01
Right, right.
2
SPEAKER_00
So, right.
2
SPEAKER_00
So as a scientist,
2
SPEAKER_00
 I'm going to say that the mind is simply the activity of atoms and molecules in the brain.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because that's all a scientist can say.
2
SPEAKER_00
As a human being, I don't believe that.
2
SPEAKER_00
But that's metaphysics.
2
SPEAKER_00
 beyond what we can measure and touch and bang on and experiment on.
2
SPEAKER_00
That's metaphysics, and scientists shouldn't talk about metaphysics.
2
SPEAKER_00
So there's physics within the body, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
There's metaphysics, which is beyond.
2
SPEAKER_00
What's quantum physics?
2
SPEAKER_00
 Physics.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
Physics.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's straight up physics.
2
SPEAKER_00
So everything in the universe is made up of two things, bosons and fermions.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
What are these things called?
2
SPEAKER_00
Quarks.
2
SPEAKER_00
Quarks?
2
SPEAKER_00
Those are fermions.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Fermions are what make up matter.
2
SPEAKER_00
So quarks are fermions.
2
SPEAKER_00
Quarks, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Electrons are fermions.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Bosons or fermions?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Protons.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, they're, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Bosons are energy.
2
SPEAKER_00
So photons, which carry light and radio waves, those are bosons.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
So, so we got bosons and fermions.
2
SPEAKER_00
Anything that's not bosons and fermions, like souls and mind and divinities, that's metaphysical.
2
SPEAKER_00
And consciousness, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
 I don't know.
2
SPEAKER_01
That's not part of photons and these other things.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don't know.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right, so it's something else that's not seen.
2
SPEAKER_00
Maybe.
2
SPEAKER_00
That's not measurable.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, materialists.
2
SPEAKER_00
Crick, I can't remember his first name, co-discoverer of the structure of DNA.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Francis Crick.
2
SPEAKER_00
Watson and Crick discovered the big thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
Anyways, he's a strict materialist.
2
SPEAKER_00
He does not believe anything beyond bosons and fermions.
2
SPEAKER_00
And he wrote this book called The Astonishing Hypothesis.
2
SPEAKER_00
And he said, the astonishing hypothesis is that you, your memories, your feelings, your hopes, and your dreams are nothing more than a vast assembly of neurons made up of molecules and atoms.
2
SPEAKER_00
 As Lewis Karas's Alice might say, you're nothing but a pack of neurons.
2
SPEAKER_00
So where does the soul, the minds?
2
SPEAKER_00
A fair number of scientists, especially neuroscientists, are strict materialists.
2
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
2
SPEAKER_00
And they will not admit the existence of anything beyond atoms and molecules.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's a no soul, no mind.
2
SPEAKER_00
No soul, no mind.
2
SPEAKER_00
No soul, no mind.
2
SPEAKER_00
What's your belief?
2
SPEAKER_00
I believe in souls and minds.
2
SPEAKER_01
And where do you, I guess,
2
SPEAKER_01
 If you're going away from the scientist's point of view, where would you say the mind is?
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, I think that once we move away from that, we don't need to talk about space anymore.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don't think the mind would be localized.
2
SPEAKER_00
It could be everywhere.
2
SPEAKER_00
It could be anywhere, is what you're saying.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
2
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it may not make so much sense to talk about it as being in a particular location.
2
SPEAKER_00
 You know, like in the old days, I don't know if this was like the 19th century, they did this crazy experiment in which they weighed someone right before they died and right after they died to find out how much the soul weighed.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Because the soul would leave their body at two ounces.
2
SPEAKER_00
The soul weighs two ounces.
2
SPEAKER_00
And, you know, nowadays we say, well, that's silly.
2
SPEAKER_00
 So I think that when we move away from science to faith, we're working in a completely different paradigm.
2
SPEAKER_01
That's crazy.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because there's so many times where people, you know, I'll call someone and they're saying, I was just thinking about you.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And why does that happen?
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, it's like, why are these connections beyond just the brain, you know, from the mind or the, now we're going beyond this book here, but.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's interesting stuff.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's fascinating.
2
SPEAKER_01
Is this anything that you tap into, you work on or research, or is it more?
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, it's pointless to research it.
2
SPEAKER_00
People have tried, and they've tried many times, because it is so fascinating, but it can't be captured.
2
SPEAKER_00
It cannot be captured.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And people who have faith would say, yeah, yeah, you know, you're not gonna put God in a box, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
He's not gonna... Can't explain it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and plus if there were a proof of God, there'd be no longer any faith, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Because you would be forced to believe in God.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like you have no choice but to believe 2 plus 2 equals 4.
2
SPEAKER_00
 In some ways you're a slave, you can't choose.
2
SPEAKER_00
If we could prove the existence of God, we'd be religious slaves, because proof would eliminate choice.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so what religious people say is that assuming God exists, he would not create a universe in which you could prove him, because he wants freedom for his creations.
2
SPEAKER_01
 prescribe faith to your patients?
2
SPEAKER_01
Do you see people with some faith or more faith as
2
SPEAKER_01
 healthier, happier brains and mental, I don't know, capacities?
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, you know, asking about spiritual beliefs is part of every standard psychiatric evaluation.
2
SPEAKER_00
Just like asking about diet and exercise, we ask about their spiritual beliefs.
2
SPEAKER_01
And what are the ones who are more depressed or seem to have more extreme mental illnesses?
2
SPEAKER_01
 on the spectrum of spiritual faith.
2
SPEAKER_01
Doesn't seem to be a connection between the two.
2
SPEAKER_01
Some of them might be strong faith, some might have no faith.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
In general, extreme hardship does drive us to a more spiritual orientation because it just forces us to look beyond the physical reality.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because you may not find a meaning or reason in the logical world, so you have to see beyond.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Now to me it makes sense that people with strong spiritual beliefs should be mentally healthier, but that has not been proven.
2
SPEAKER_00
What has been proven is that people who attend regular religious services are happier and mentally stronger than those who don't.
2
SPEAKER_01
 So it's the attending of a ritual, a community.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's the community, it's the people.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's everything, it's feeling a sense of peace for an hour.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's the people, because people who are spiritual all by themselves, which is a very important part of spirituality, they don't get the boost.
2
SPEAKER_00
 the boost comes from the community.
2
SPEAKER_00
Really, based on all the different patients you've had and the... I didn't do these studies, I didn't do these studies, but smarter people than me did the studies.
2
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
So showing up to a place for an hour a week with a community in a spiritual practice, a religious practice, tends to make people happier.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yep, so you would probably get the same benefit from the Pickleball League.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right, just showing up once a week to like a community activity.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yep, that's it.
2
SPEAKER_00
 So it's disappointing, we haven't been able to prove that spirituality leads to better mental health.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think it does, it ought to, but we can't prove it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think that that's just the way it is with metaphysical stuff.
2
SPEAKER_00
It doesn't lend itself to the scientific method.
2
SPEAKER_00
What else do we need to know?
2
SPEAKER_01
Is there anything else you think we need to be sharing or talking about that would be valuable for people today?
3
SPEAKER_01
 a molecule of more?
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, the one thing I was hoping we would get to was the question of love.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes, oh yeah, because we talked about it, then I think I distracted you.
3
SPEAKER_01
So you're saying narcissism, it's love.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, I talked about falling in love can reduce narcissism.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay, so tell me about love.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, I want to talk about a mistake people make with love.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
Because there are two kinds of love.
3
SPEAKER_00
There's dopaminergic love,
3
SPEAKER_00
 and there's here and now love.
3
SPEAKER_00
And they're very, very different things.
3
SPEAKER_00
And people get the two confused, and it can cause serious problems.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I wanted to make a distinction between the two.
3
SPEAKER_00
Dopaminergic love is the kind of love we experience when we talk about falling in love.
3
SPEAKER_00
It's a sort of insanity.
3
SPEAKER_00
It's a rush.
3
SPEAKER_00
It's a rush, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Some people, and I agree with them, call it the most intense, most pleasurable experience we can have in life.
3
SPEAKER_00
But then there's a crash.
3
SPEAKER_00
 Yeah, it comes to an end.
3
SPEAKER_00
Usually, there's a decline at some point.
3
SPEAKER_00
There's a decline.
3
SPEAKER_00
It doesn't have to be a crash, but there's always a decline.
3
SPEAKER_00
And with the decline, does it come...
3
SPEAKER_00
 an expectation hangover or like... Yeah, so dopaminergic love, we might call it passionate love, it only lasts for about a year or two, all right?
3
SPEAKER_00
And then it goes away, and you're no longer, when you're in love, all you want is to be with the other person.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, they're a god or a goddess, and they make your life perfect, and you feel like you've never, all you want is them.
3
SPEAKER_00
When that comes to an end,
3
SPEAKER_00
 they lose their divinity and they revert back to normal human status.
3
SPEAKER_00
And what a lot of people do is say, ah, I thought this was the one, they're not, I need to go find someone else because I'm no longer in love with that person.
3
SPEAKER_00
And that's a mistake because what happens is that passionate love never ever lasts.
3
SPEAKER_00
 but it can evolve into something called companionate love, and that's the here and now love.
3
SPEAKER_00
We talked about how dopaminergic happiness is about excitement, enthusiasm, and that's what it feels like to be in love.
3
SPEAKER_00
Here and now happiness is about fulfillment, contentment, satisfaction, serenity, and that's here and now love.
3
SPEAKER_00
That's what passionate love can evolve into, and in some ways it's better.
3
SPEAKER_00
 And so I think that, you know, our society, we romanticize passionate love, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
Movies are all about falling in love.
3
SPEAKER_00
You don't see couples who have been together 20 years and have this enormous level of comfort with one another.
3
SPEAKER_00
 Right?
3
SPEAKER_00
When you're in a companionate love relationship, you have this sense of trust.
3
SPEAKER_00
There's someone that you know will always have your back no matter what.
3
SPEAKER_00
Your life is deeply entwined with theirs.
3
SPEAKER_00
And that is a wonderful, beautiful thing that I think our society doesn't appreciate enough.
3
SPEAKER_00
 Yeah, they want more the rush.
3
SPEAKER_01
They want the feeling of falling in love.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it always goes away.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so then they leave the relationship on the next one to feel the next dopamine hit, I guess, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that's right.
3
SPEAKER_00
I had a patient who is a salesperson.
3
SPEAKER_00
 top salesman in the country in his company, very dopaminergic, and he would just jump from one relationship to another.
3
SPEAKER_00
And he must have gone through hundreds of relationships.
3
SPEAKER_00
No way.
3
SPEAKER_00
And one day he came to me with a big smile on his face, and he says, oh, I'm all better.
3
SPEAKER_00
I overcame my problem.
3
SPEAKER_00
I'm married.
3
SPEAKER_00
I'm like, what?
3
SPEAKER_00
And there was this girl, he was been dating for a couple of months, and he persuaded
3
SPEAKER_00
 we're gonna fly to Las Vegas and get married.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I said.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then it probably ended in the next year.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, it lasted another month and then it was over.
3
SPEAKER_00
Wow, no way.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, because it was just.
3
SPEAKER_00
There was no foundation.
3
SPEAKER_00
No foundation.
3
SPEAKER_00
He was solving in a dopaminergic way.
3
SPEAKER_00
He wasn't really growing his here and now circuits.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh man, so he got divorced.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh man.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it's all about creating that foundation.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
That's huge.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it's all about understanding that being in love is a temporary phenomenon.
3
SPEAKER_00
 and that it needs to evolve into something stronger and more long-lasting.
3
SPEAKER_00
Beautiful stuff.
3
SPEAKER_00
I'm loving this, Daniel.
3
SPEAKER_00
Anything else we need to share, you think?
3
SPEAKER_00
There's a lot more.
3
SPEAKER_00
There's a lot.
3
SPEAKER_00
Can I give you one more thing?
3
SPEAKER_00
Give me one more.
3
SPEAKER_00
All right.
3
SPEAKER_00
So we talked about the dopamine desire circuit.
3
SPEAKER_00
 That's what makes you want stuff.
3
SPEAKER_00
That's what gives you pleasure.
3
SPEAKER_00
That's what drugs hit, sex, food, all that stuff.
3
SPEAKER_00
There's another circuit that involves the frontal lobes.
3
SPEAKER_00
What is that?
3
SPEAKER_00
The most recently evolved part of the brain, the dopamine control circuit.
3
SPEAKER_00
The dopamine desire circuit says, I want it now.
3
SPEAKER_00
 The control circuit is also about the future, because all dopamine is about the future, but it's about the longer term future.
3
SPEAKER_00
It's about planning.
3
SPEAKER_00
It's about working with abstract knowledge.
3
SPEAKER_00
So the desire circuit says, I want that donut.
3
SPEAKER_00
The control circuit says, you know what?
3
SPEAKER_00
 We might be happier right now if we eat the donut, but 10 years from now, we'll be happier if we don't eat the donut.
3
SPEAKER_00
And what's that called again in the front?
3
SPEAKER_00
We call it the dopamine control circuit.
3
SPEAKER_00
The technical name is the mesofrontal circuit or the mesocortical circuit, but that's not very... We call it the dopamine control circuit.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay, cool.
3
SPEAKER_00
 So, you know, when you talk about people who are very strongly dopamine, they can look very different.
3
SPEAKER_00
So someone who has a strong desire circuit can be hedonistic.
3
SPEAKER_00
They're going out to clubs, picking up girls and drinking a lot of alcohol.
3
SPEAKER_00
 The person with the strong control circuit is the workaholic, who's spending all day and all night in the office making long-term plans for the future.
3
SPEAKER_00
So most people think about dopamine, they think about the desire circuit, but dopamine is all, and that's the hot circuit, but there's a cold dopamine circuit that is passionless and looks to the future, it is merciless.
3
SPEAKER_01
It just works nonstop all day.
3
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
3
SPEAKER_00
So that's the other thing I wanted to throw in there.
3
SPEAKER_01
So where should we be in there?
3
SPEAKER_00
 We need that, very, very powerful.
3
SPEAKER_00
We need both of them.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I mean, we need the control circuit to moderate the desire circuit, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
So it's a dance, and there's many, many partners, and we need to be aware of all the different partners.
3
SPEAKER_01
Man, so much to understand and dive into, but the book shares a lot of this and more, the molecule of more, how a single chemical in your brain drives love, sex, and creativity, and will determine the fate of the human race
3
SPEAKER_01
 Powerful book, make sure you guys get a copy if you wanna understand this chemical in your brain more.
3
SPEAKER_01
Where can people follow you, Daniel?
3
SPEAKER_01
How can they connect with you and support you?
3
SPEAKER_01
You've got this book, are you on social media as well?
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, I'm working on starting a YouTube channel, Ask the Psychiatrist, in which I'm gonna answer just questions that people have about psychiatry.
3
SPEAKER_00
Not up yet, but soon.
3
SPEAKER_00
DanielzLieberman.com if they wanna be aware when it goes live.
3
SPEAKER_01
 DanielZLieberman.com for the book and also for the next book on the unconscious and conscious mind.
3
SPEAKER_01
A couple of final questions for you.
3
SPEAKER_01
This is a hypothetical question.
3
SPEAKER_01
 Imagine it's your last day on earth many years away from now.
3
SPEAKER_01
You get to live as long as you want to live, and you create everything you want to create in your life, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
You share with the world, you make books, you do everything you want to do.
3
SPEAKER_01
But for whatever reason, you've got to take all of your work with you, all of your written work, your audio, video, the content you've created.
3
SPEAKER_01
It's got to go somewhere else when you die.
3
SPEAKER_01
It's got to go with you or somewhere else, but we don't have access to it in this world.
3
SPEAKER_01
 But you get to leave behind three things that you know to be true from your life experience.
3
SPEAKER_01
Three lessons that you would share with the world.
3
SPEAKER_01
What would you say are those three truths for you?
3
SPEAKER_00
I would say that the key to happiness is living in the present moment.
3
SPEAKER_00
That you are not alone inside your head and you better get to know your unconscious partner if you want to have a fulfilling life
3
SPEAKER_00
 And that life should not be about you.
3
SPEAKER_00
It should be about what you can do for other people.
3
SPEAKER_01
 Service is a big one for me.
3
SPEAKER_01
That's on my list as well.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah life of service I want to acknowledge you Daniel for Your drive for having the molecule of more inside of you to want to research want to obsess want to serve your your patients to help people heal and improve and understand their conscious and unconscious mind and
3
SPEAKER_01
 the dopamine circuit that's driving them, and for educating us on this information.
3
SPEAKER_01
It's really powerful, and I think a lot of people are suffering because they don't understand how their mind and how their brain works for them specifically.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I really acknowledge you for being on this journey of service and creating in a powerful way.
3
SPEAKER_01
It's beautiful.
3
SPEAKER_01
Thank you.
3
SPEAKER_01
Of course.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I hope to, next time I see you, I'll hopefully you're up to a seven or eight on the worthiness and self-love journey.
3
SPEAKER_01
I'm gonna work on it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes, exactly.
3
SPEAKER_01
 My final question for you is what's your definition of greatness?
3
SPEAKER_01
I think it is how much happiness you create in other people.
3
SPEAKER_01
Ooh, that's a good one.
3
SPEAKER_00
Damian Lieberman, thank you, man.
3
SPEAKER_00
Appreciate it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
3
SPEAKER_01
Thank you so much for listening.
3
SPEAKER_01
I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness.
3
SPEAKER_01
Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links.
3
SPEAKER_01
And also make sure to share this with a friend and subscribe over on Apple Podcasts as well.
3
SPEAKER_01
 I really love hearing feedback from you guys, so share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most.
3
SPEAKER_01
And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.
3
SPEAKER_01
And now it's time to go out there and do something great.