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This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.
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Look at how fast, we re almost halfway through the year.
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Crazy, yeah.
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Are you proud of what you ve done in 2024 so far?
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I mean, you always want to do more, right?
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Life goes so fast, David.
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It s important to take a moment to celebrate your wins, make adjustments for the rest of the year.
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Therapy can help you take stock of your progress and set achievable goals for the next six months.
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Listen, therapy is the way to go.
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I did it for a while.
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And I think the thing that slowed me down was what they, is driving to Santa Monica in traffic once or twice a week.
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This is online.
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It s a great idea.
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Very convenient.
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It helps you.
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You ve got coping skills, how to set boundaries.
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I mean, there s so many things you can do here to be a better version of yourself.
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You can probably always sharpen it.
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Yeah, I mean, I had a therapist in Portland and I would commute and that was a pain.
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That s a long drive.
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I know it was 1300 miles one way, but you know, it s good therapist.
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But yeah, this one you can mix and match and your thoughts kind of control you and you want to master them.
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And when you talk to someone else, they re able to kind of discern it out.
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Cheryl Crow is such a super talent.
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Great.
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We re doing musical people now that were music guests on the show.
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I know Cheryl a little bit from the old days and seeing her out and
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What a sweet girl.
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She has done so many things.
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She sings with everybody that s famous.
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That s great.
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Highly respected.
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We had a great chat with her.
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Very cool girl.
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Yeah, if you look at her peers or singer-songwriters, female, from the 90s till now, I mean, her legacy, the amount of anthems she wrote, the amount of great hits,
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So it s a really fun chat we had with her and she s, you know, as likable as they come.
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And just knowing she has all that talent and she started playing the guitar at the very end.
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Yeah.
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Stay tuned for that.
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Every girl I know in the last, you know, 15, 20 years, if any of those songs come on.
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You know, they all love Cheryl.
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She knows what she s doing, writing, everything.
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And so I ve seen her in concert.
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She kicks ass.
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I saw her documentary.
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We talk about that.
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She s a great person to hang with.
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Yeah, we had fun.
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At one point she said, could I tell this story?
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And I said, if it makes you happy.
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If it makes you... I go, my... That s like, once you get that song in your head, you never get it out.
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That s such a banger.
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I mean... Yeah.
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That s one of the anthems.
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The girl s always saying, I m not the kind of girl you take home if it makes you happy.
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See, I hit it.
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Why are you so sad?
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Her stuff is sneakily deep.
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She has these pop anthems, but the lyrics are pretty heavy.
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And we do get into the Beatles a little bit.
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Sorry, they re kind of part of our podcast.
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And it was fun to hear her sense of the Beatles.
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I don t want to give it away, but I would stay tuned for that.
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It s very, very interesting.
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Here s Sheryl Crow.
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Oh my gosh, it s been 3,000 years since I ve seen either one of you.
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Hi, Cheryl.
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Weren t you at the 40th?
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You were at the 40th, weren t you?
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Yes, I was.
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I was.
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So that s when we last saw each other.
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When was that?
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2016, I think.
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That was 40 years into SNL.
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Yeah, I know.
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It feels like, yeah.
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Cheryl Cheryl Crow is with us.
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I just like to say this 32 Grammy nominations 9 wins and 50 million albums there just to reremind everyone what the fuck is going on right now.
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Yeah
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Let me put on my glasses so I can see you.
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Okay, yes.
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You both are looking very well.
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I m sorry that your listeners can t see us visiting with each other through our camera screens.
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I know.
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Even though this is all audio, I spent about 45 minutes on my chair and lighting and stuff.
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I don t know why.
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Oh, I spackled my face.
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I teased my hair.
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You got your guitars back there.
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The hair s looking great.
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Oh, Dana, I ve always loved you.
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Look at Dana.
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Dana looks like he s in solitary confinement.
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This room is empty of void, but all my son s models and little army men are in a plastic container and the laptop s on top of it, so it s very nostalgic when I do this.
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He s 28 now, but now I m single.
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Dana, what is that room that you re in that has no art on the walls?
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Nothing.
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Is it everything must go?
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It s very personal.
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I have sleep paralysis, so I have to sleep in an empty house because they ll come for me.
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I have it.
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Okay, I have sleep paralysis.
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How often?
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I have not had it in a while, but now for a long time I would have it almost every night and I would have it periodically through the night.
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And what s weirder, and I don t know if you have this, I m sure this is so interesting to your listeners,
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Do you ever have sleep paralysis on an airplane?
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No, I can t sleep on an airplane because I m too terrified, no matter what.
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I just watch the computer and check the pilots.
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I sleep like a damn baby on an airplane.
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Sleep paralysis is basically you feel like something s attacking you invisibly in the night or there s a weight on your chest.
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It s like a waking nightmare kind of.
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You can t wake yourself up and yet you think that you re awake.
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Like you see people in the room moving and you re trying desperately to get them to wake you up.
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You re paralyzed.
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Yes, you can t move.
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And the thing that got me, I was, it s the first time, San Ysidro Ranch in Montecito, whatever, you know, lifestyle is rich and famous.
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and just woke up, or I had that pressure on my chest, like something was crawling on top of me, and then I kind of went, okay, that was a dream, used the restroom, went back to bed, felt I was as awake as I am right now, and then came back again.
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But now I talk to it, it s never harmed me, I don t know if it s a spirit thing or something.
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Dana, then what did you do?
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I beat the shit out of it.
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No, you left, didn t you?
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Well, my wife was sound asleep, so I turned to her and said, we have to go now.
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It s three in the morning.
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We have to leave immediately.
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And she s a keeper because she didn t even blink.
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She s like, OK.
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OK, honey.
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It s OK, honey.
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See, I thought it was just mostly in women.
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The women in my family have it.
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My mom has managed through the years to figure out how to get my dad to wake her up.
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And she does it by singing.
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Oh, interesting.
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Well, you re in Nashville.
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Isn t that full of ghosts out there?
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Isn t it full of ghosts, like old country singers and stuff, I mean, walking around in the night?
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Yeah, and Civil War, lots of Civil War ghosts in Franklin.
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Oh, it s never a dull moment down here.
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And we live in the rainforest, except for when it rains.
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I thought Cheryl was in Guitar Center.
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It does look like a guitar set in here.
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She has 30 guitars behind her.
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Cheryl, I ve been to Smashville, and next time I go there, I m gonna make you come down to the Ryman and watch me bomb.
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I m so mad that you ve been here and not called me.
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I take it very personally.
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You know, the last time I saw you, but you lived somewhere in the canyon.
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Yeah.
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If you had some beautiful house.
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I lived right next- It was like a couple of houses.
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Right next to Runyon Canyon.
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Okay.
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And I won t give you the address because somebody else that s kind of high profile lives there now.
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However, that being said, I used to have wild parties at my house.
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And I don t know if you remember this and this, I ve only been thinking about it lately because
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of Salmon Rusty being in the news, not to mention we just played Chautauqua.
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But so I m sure you know what happened to Salmon Rusty.
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So Minnie Driver and I decided this is years ago.
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I m trying to think of what year it would have been.
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Salmon s usually my plus one at parties.
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He is.
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He is.
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He is fascinating.
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Anyway, we said, let s have a New Year s Eve party together and you can invite 40 people and I ll invite 40 people.
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And that was going to be it.
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And by about 11 at night, there must ve been 800 people in my house.
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And one of them was Salman Rushdie.
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And it was right after his book had come out and there was a bounty on his head.
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And I m just like, really?
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Is somebody getting killed here tonight?
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What s happening?
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Oh, Ms.
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Hollywood.
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Your house was like, was it a bunch of little houses or am I crazy?
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Yeah, there was a big old Spanish house
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And then across the driveway, which is the house I bought, and then right across the driveway on the same property were two other houses that were really old.
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One was built in the early 1900s and the other one was built in 1887.
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And the guy who lived in those, who had those two properties and the 11 acres,
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uh, wound up selling it to me for, he just needed to get out and kept lowering the price and lowering the price.
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And so I wound up with all three houses and it was just compound magical.
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But once I adopted my boys, I just didn t want to live in LA anymore.
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Dana, I understand.
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Dana, I knew Sheryl Suzanne Crowe a little bit.
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You know everybody.
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His Rolodex is metaphorical Rolodex.
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We used to run around in the same crew.
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No, we did, I know.
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Courtney and Jen.
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Who s that peer group?
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Was it kind of like the little club?
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Courtney Cox.
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Courtney Cox and Kid Rock was around.
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I was around with Kid Rock because of, it was during the Joe Dirt times when I saw Sheryl the most.
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And we call him Bobby, which I don t know, it s kind of gross, but we re always like Bobby Bob.
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But Kid Rock is a buffoon.
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He s hilarious.
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And we would all go out and then I would run into Cheryl and with all those other people and she was always nice.
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And she was always friendly and
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obviously being a superstar, but had a lot of fun.
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She has a great voice, and she has a great singing voice, but she has a great voice, too.
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I ve heard it.
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And it was fun.
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I just watched your whole documentary, and so it s just weird to have you pop on right after, because I finished it this morning.
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Oh, you did?
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Oh yeah, it s great.
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It s kind of a tearjerker for some reason.
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I have it on in the background right now.
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I just glance at it.
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It s never a dull moment.
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It s brilliant.
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I put it up there with Top Gun.
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I put it up there with Top Gun Maverick.
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By the way, can we sing Top Gun s praises for 10 seconds?
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Did you see it?
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I did like Top Gun.
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I don t know if I, what?
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Cheryl, there s a new top gone out.
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It s shockingly good, like my wife both flipped for it.
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Oh, the new one, yes.
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The new one.
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It was so good.
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Here s how I m gonna connect it and see if you guys connect to this.
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I connected to Roman Holiday with Gregory Peck and Audrey Hepburn.
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Interesting.
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The reason is, it s done a lot, but they did it better than anyone else.
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You invest in the characters, invest in the story, and then there s seven minutes of Hans Zimmerman soundtrack with kind of people hugging each other and giving thumbs up.
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And that s the part that gets you.
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Anyway, that s it.
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Wow, okay, I m gonna go back and watch it.
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I dragged my boys to see it, because they had no attachment to Top Gun.
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And I was kind of skeptical, but I d heard how great it was, and we loved it.
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I mean, it was such a good old-fashioned plot-driven movie.
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Anyway.
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How old are the kids?
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My kids are 15 and 12.
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Oh, right in the pocket.
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Oh, okay.
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That s perfect.
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Yeah.
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And they seriously don t think I m cool at all.
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It would be weird if they did.
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Oh my God, it s Sheryl Crow s cooking me a pancake.
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Tell them to watch the documentary.
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They ll say how cool you are.
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Do you think I should let them watch it?
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I don t know.
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I don t look at it from their eyes, but it shows how tough you are, how hard you bust your ass, how good you are.
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First of all, everyone that loves is crazy about you.
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All these huge, huge stars that rally around you and you re singing with every single one of them.
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I knew you more like a skim job because when you watch the, you know, when I d see you out, but we, you know, I don t get into all that stuff.
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And it s so, I had so many more levels to your whole life and career.
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I had no idea about, no idea.
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Well, you know, I think most people, and I m sure you guys too, you guys have stories that nobody knows anything about.
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No, I m so interesting.
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You re like a fully realized person that s not, you know, that s not,
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covered in the tabloids and all that stuff.
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I find that everybody has a story.
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Everybody.
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Yes.
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And way more than you think.
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I wouldn t release mine because no one would believe it.
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They would just laugh me out of the room.
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I don t know.
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There s a tease.
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I d like to know the story of Dana Carvey.
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Yeah.
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When I come to Nashville and we go around all the main street and we go in the bars, we see all the incredible bands, I ll tell you everything you want to know.
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So my new best friend is Cheryl Craw.
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I just want to make that announcement.
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Yeah, make it clear.
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So you re the thing I got from the documentary which I recommend everybody is such a human story is how hard you worked and how driven you were and then how you like most people well there s certain celebrities I know that are much easier with fame but how you had a love-hate with that and we talk about that part of the your drive and yet why do I want this and stuff like that
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Yeah.
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I mean, I, I still think fame is a weird, it s a mind, it s a real mind trip and, and I didn t really adjust to it very well.
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It, for me, instead of it being fun and something I could kind of navigate and manipulate and use to sort of build my brand, which was not the, you know, people didn t talk about brand back then.
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Instead for me, it was pressure, you know, it was pressure and it was a source of my,
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I mean, I ve always looked at my life as, OK, how am I going to fuck this up?
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Or, you know, that s just how I ve always I ve always been sort of uber critical of myself.
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I don t know why, but.
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And so fame was just one more avenue for me to fall short or embarrass myself or, you know, it becomes this thing like suddenly you re invited to the party and you re like with all the cool kids.
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And then you get this weird panic that when is this going to stop?
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And, oh, I wasn t at that event or I should have been at that, or I wasn t included.
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It s just like, it s another level of,
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panic, it was for me at least.
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I didn t enjoy it.
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Cheryl, you get re-reminded all the time.
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You were saying it in the documentary and you re saying it now.
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I would like, in tiny ways, you get re-reminded.
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Like you go to the Golden Globes and you re sitting eight rows back where you were the year before and you re like, is that weird?
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That part is kind of funny.
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Or there s so many little things you keep getting checked, like where you are in the food chain and Vanity Fair party, they invite you at nine or 1 a.m.
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You re like, wait a second.
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Why does that matter?
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And they re like, well, you can t go and you can t bring a plus one this time.
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And, or you can, and all that stuff is someone s in a room deciding your fame level.
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And, uh, all the pictures of people on the red carpet and you ve like gone out of your way to look hot and you re not in the pictures or they ll say a press announcement of like who came and you re not in those 10 they mentioned.
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You re like, Oh, okay.
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Well, I was gonna say, and one other thing, I find that I still see my name in the press and it ll be misspelled.
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Ooh.
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And I ll just go, okay.
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Do they misspell Crow or Cheryl?
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They do a C?
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Cheryl.
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They can t get C right?
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Or sometimes it ll be like an E on the end of Crow.
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Yeah.
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Anyway, that s the part that was so, once I moved, and especially once my boys came, and really, truth be told, after I got diagnosed with cancer, all that stuff just kind of went,
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out the window and seemed ridiculous, you know?
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That same thing happened to me.
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It happened to me twice.
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Once with a health issue I had botched bypass, but feels good now.
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And once when I was picking up my son and he went in for the play date, he s like nine, he comes out, he has a severely fractured wrist.
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It s just like going at a right angle.
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So either drive to the hospital and in that moment everything got real clear, you know Yeah, I read I read this thing recently based on what we re talking about and I can t believe I would read something recently That would be helpful in terms of getting dinged in show business.
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Yeah, the people who criticize you are doing less than you and
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Ooh, I like that.
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Isn t it good?
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Cause like we would never judge you.
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We know what the work that goes in.
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You know, I don t ever think of anybody who s hot or not.
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I just know they have a story and they re talented and whatever.
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But do you go on social media at all and look around and David s good.
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I m so, I mean, my assistant s sitting over here.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m totally embarrassed, but.
1
SPEAKER_00
First of all, I ll say that my kids say I was born in the 1870s.
1
SPEAKER_00
I am so not tech, but also I have nothing to do with social media.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s not true.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s not true.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m involved in my social media, but I don t know how to go on it.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t know how to post.
1
SPEAKER_00
I hand stuff to Liz and I ll say, can we post about this?
1
SPEAKER_00
This matters or, um, but I don t, I just don t do it.
1
SPEAKER_00
My kids don t have social media.
1
SPEAKER_00
I already know how my personality is and there s so much mean stuff on there.
1
SPEAKER_00
I would be distraught.
1
SPEAKER_00
So.
1
SPEAKER_01
How do you get your kids to not, do they want to be on and you, you don t let them.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, my 15-year-old initially, about when he turned 12, started begging me for Snapchat.
1
SPEAKER_01
Of course.
1
SPEAKER_01
For sure.
1
SPEAKER_00
About 12 and a half.
1
SPEAKER_00
And all of his friends had Snapchat.
1
SPEAKER_00
They didn t have Instagram.
1
SPEAKER_00
They didn t have whatever else that you have.
1
SPEAKER_00
What else is there?
1
SPEAKER_00
TikTok.
2
SPEAKER_01
have Tik TOK.
2
SPEAKER_01
Um, I know, I m sorry, but, um, didn t have Tik TOK.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then, um, I am weird.
2
SPEAKER_01
I, I love up worthy.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like I love that, that I can get with, but anyway, so he asked me for his 14th birthday, if he could have Snapchat.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I said, oh my gosh, buddy, you don t have to ask for it for your birthday.
2
SPEAKER_01
So he got that.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, that s the weird one.
2
SPEAKER_01
Cause you can t check what they re doing, but they re
2
SPEAKER_01
Sneak chat.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it is sneak chat.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s so many ways, though, to see all the TikTok stuff on YouTube, and we have all the parameters.
2
SPEAKER_03
I know, at a friend s house, and you know.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
You can t, hard to control that.
2
SPEAKER_02
My daughter is, actually grew up, I don t know where you were in Missouri, she s in Springfield right now.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, not far.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, so she, that s where she s growing up, and so- Brad Pittstown.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think it s nice.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s nice there, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
It is nice there, it is.
2
SPEAKER_01
My brother went to college there.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I ve tried to keep her there as long as I can in a bubble before she comes to stay in LA sometimes because just, I can tell it s just, it s getting scarier and scarier about terrifying it is for them to open to that world.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but it s kind of that way everywhere.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, we just have a, we have a rule that you can t be on your phone after, you know, can t come and lay down on the couch and be on your phone for, you know, I m sort of at a 30 minute, you can do 30 minutes, pick your screen.
2
SPEAKER_02
Um, and I look at my screen time.
2
SPEAKER_02
It says I m on, uh, 22 hours a day.
2
SPEAKER_02
I m like, we can pump those numbers up.
2
SPEAKER_03
I know, they do, they admonish you.
2
SPEAKER_03
Your phone says you re down, you re down this week.
2
SPEAKER_03
You re usually just down.
2
SPEAKER_03
It s like, fuck you.
2
SPEAKER_03
Why aren t you on anymore?
2
SPEAKER_02
What s wrong with you?
2
SPEAKER_03
What can we do to get you sucked back in?
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, come on.
2
SPEAKER_03
You know, anger really sells, man.
2
SPEAKER_03
And outrage.
2
SPEAKER_03
But I don t look at it.
2
SPEAKER_03
I get way too sensitive.
2
SPEAKER_03
If I see one negative thing or were you ever funny or whatever they say, I m kind of bummed out.
2
SPEAKER_03
And it makes me mad that I even am affected.
2
SPEAKER_03
But I don t listen or watch anything I do, essentially.
2
SPEAKER_03
I don t like to see, hear, or feel anything.
2
SPEAKER_01
Me neither.
2
SPEAKER_01
Plus, I ll tell you the one thing about making a documentary when you re 60, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Sexy 60.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m 60, I turned 60 in February.
2
SPEAKER_01
You see all that old footage of yourself and you still think you re that person.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then it comes back over to an interview with you and there you are in the chair and you re 60.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t want to see it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I like to think that I m still like in my 30s.
2
SPEAKER_03
Hey, I m up the ladder looking down at your age going, not bad, but you re right.
2
SPEAKER_03
How do we compete?
2
SPEAKER_03
You know, we re all so cute.
2
SPEAKER_03
Everyone is essentially all humans.
2
SPEAKER_03
All humans are cute.
2
SPEAKER_03
We get cuter with age.
2
SPEAKER_03
In their 20s.
2
SPEAKER_02
Adorable.
2
SPEAKER_03
Everybody s really cute in their 20s and 30s, but it s hard to, you know, compete with you.
2
SPEAKER_02
What about Cheryl Woodstock, Dana?
2
SPEAKER_02
I watched her shoes in the Woodstock one.
2
SPEAKER_02
I watch it because they said you were on it.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I watch it.
2
1999.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
Well, wherever you had a full blown mullet.
2
SPEAKER_01
I did.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was where it was.
2
SPEAKER_01
Let me just tell you, please.
2
SPEAKER_01
This is a total aside.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I have these wonderful hair pieces I can clip in my hair.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
Nice.
2
SPEAKER_01
Not wearing them now.
2
SPEAKER_01
But if I go on stage or whatever and I clip them on both my boys so that they ll look like Tommy boy.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, Joe Dirt, sorry, Joe Dirt.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh my gosh.
2
SPEAKER_03
There s so many, that s all right.
2
SPEAKER_01
Joe Dirt, yes.
2
SPEAKER_03
Joe Dirt is a big Halloween costume.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it is a look.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s cool.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh my gosh, I love it so much.
2
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, that documentary, 1999, the Woodstock is, I watched part of it on the airplane.
2
SPEAKER_01
a couple of days ago and I had to turn it off.
2
SPEAKER_01
It was so disturbing.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I remember it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I remember how awful it was.
2
SPEAKER_02
Was it scary for you because it got scarier, like by the time Jewel got on and stuff, it was getting closer and closer to that hole.
2
SPEAKER_02
I remember hearing about it, but when you watch how everyone went bananas, it must have been, I can t believe who would stay.
2
SPEAKER_02
You know what I mean?
2
SPEAKER_02
It was so bad.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_01
It is interesting that people did stay.
2
SPEAKER_01
It almost felt like they couldn t leave, but it was debauched from the beginning because we were on the first day and you could look out and you d see all these girls who were topless on guys  shoulders, trying to get the MTV camera to sweep around in front of them and get on TV.
2
SPEAKER_01
And they were already throwing shit from the outhouses that were
2
SPEAKER_01
not set up right, it relieved me.
2
SPEAKER_01
And at what point, some landed on my hand while I was playing bass during my favorite mistake.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s when we stopped.
2
SPEAKER_01
We played about four songs and I remember saying, not gonna do it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Not gonna do it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Not gonna do it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Wouldn t be prudent.
2
SPEAKER_01
He set me up.
2
SPEAKER_03
I don t normally do characters on the podcast, but not gonna do it.
2
SPEAKER_03
Feces on the bass.
2
SPEAKER_03
Bad.
2
SPEAKER_03
Anyway, well, that s a good gig story.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ve got a few of those.
2
SPEAKER_01
That was a highlight, though.
2
SPEAKER_01
We went on after Andy Dick.
2
SPEAKER_01
So that tells you what the vibe was.
2
SPEAKER_01
He went on after Insane Clown Posse.
2
SPEAKER_02
Who would go on after them?
2
SPEAKER_01
Jesus.
2
SPEAKER_01
We were like, is this our crowd?
2
SPEAKER_03
What d you open with?
2
SPEAKER_03
Come out with a rocker?
2
SPEAKER_03
How d you try to follow Andy Dick?
2
SPEAKER_01
I think we came out with, If It Makes You Happy.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, that was our weapon.
2
SPEAKER_02
That is a weapon.
2
SPEAKER_02
Wow, is that your one to go to?
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
You have a lot of anthems.
2
SPEAKER_02
You have a lot, a lot of anthems.
2
SPEAKER_02
God, look through her shit.
2
SPEAKER_02
I was like going, look at that song.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh my God, because I love Leaving Las Vegas and it came up my iTunes the other day.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, wow.
2
SPEAKER_02
And it was without my phone knowing we were going to talk this week.
2
SPEAKER_01
Or did it?
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, did it.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that s really the question.
2
SPEAKER_02
And that was it.
2
SPEAKER_02
That s a monster at that beginning bass and great song is a huge story about it in your documentary.
2
SPEAKER_02
And then also and then you keep going and going.
2
SPEAKER_02
Your first Letterman backup for Michael Jackson, just getting that you kind of skimmed over that in audition for Michael Jackson.
2
SPEAKER_02
How in God s green earth did you sneak in and audition where they didn t go?
2
SPEAKER_02
Your name s not on this list.
2
SPEAKER_02
You were just cute.
2
SPEAKER_02
You ran in and said, I m next.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s weird.
2
SPEAKER_01
I did a few sessions out there with, I started to get a little bit of work singing jingles, you know, the songs that are in commercials for those that don t know.
2
SPEAKER_01
And
2
SPEAKER_01
I think because I was the new kid in town, I started to get some work and started getting hired and was on a couple of sessions with the same guys.
2
SPEAKER_01
One of them was Daryl Phenasy, who s a fantastic singer.
2
SPEAKER_01
And actually, one of them was for Johnny Mathis.
2
SPEAKER_01
I overheard him talking to another singer about the Jackson tour.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I asked about it and you had to be recommended by Bruce Swedeen or Quincy Jones or Rod Temperton.
2
SPEAKER_01
And of course, I didn t know any of those people.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think I d been in town maybe six months when I first started getting work.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I found out where it was and I drove out.
2
SPEAKER_01
It was at a rehearsal space.
2
SPEAKER_01
I want to say SIR, but I don t think they have that in LA.
2
SPEAKER_01
I can t remember what it was called.
2
SPEAKER_01
Drove there and thought, well, what s the worst thing that can happen?
2
SPEAKER_01
So I went and I knocked on the door and they let me in.
2
SPEAKER_01
They asked me what my name was.
2
SPEAKER_01
I said, I m Sheryl Crow.
2
SPEAKER_01
I am not recommended, but I overheard Daryl Phenasy.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I told him straight up.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s good.
2
SPEAKER_02
You threw in some good names.
2
SPEAKER_01
And they said, well, come on in.
2
SPEAKER_01
And they put me on video first.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I said, hey, Michael, my name is Cheryl Crow.
2
SPEAKER_01
I just moved here.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was elementary school teacher.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m out here doing sessions and would love a chance to go on the road and sing back up for you or whatever.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then I got a call from Daryl and he put me with a couple of other singers and we went in and sang together and they hired us.
2
SPEAKER_02
Now, was this supposed to be backup or were we supposed to sing?
2
SPEAKER_01
Backup singer.
2
SPEAKER_02
Backup singer.
2
SPEAKER_01
No backup singer.
2
SPEAKER_02
But you eventually were doing stuff, singing with them.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, he had two or three songs that featured females.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like one of them was Man in the Mirror, which was Saida Garrett on the record.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, and I Can t Stop Loving You was also, was that also Saida?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
I just can t stop loving you.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that one.
2
SPEAKER_00
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SPEAKER_02
50% off at Rosetta stone comm slash RS 10 today It s interesting when you see it like you re at home now and you re Cheryl and sweet personable but when I watch you with Jagger and Michael Jackson, okay, so like these Titans and you re just like Going for it.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean it is kind of a it s a personality you put on it.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s fierce and
3
SPEAKER_02
and rock star-y.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean, that transition, I mean, who was tougher, Jagger or Michael to, like, keep in their face?
3
SPEAKER_02
Because they re both really aggressive, dancing with you, and you re right up on top of them.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s very cool to see.
3
SPEAKER_00
Mick Jagger was, I mean, he was far more terrifying, for sure.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I d grown up with that guy, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
I d grown up with the Sticky Fingers record and zipping the zipper.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, they were, like, dangerous.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, edgy.
3
SPEAKER_00
And they had all this folklore around them, you know?
3
SPEAKER_00
And by the time I got to sing with them, I mean, I d seen them live a handful of times.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that was like...
3
SPEAKER_00
That was the bomb.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was so afraid and I threw up all day.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was a nervous wreck.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I think I even talked about the documentary about Bobby Keys handing me a bottle of tequila right before I went on.
3
SPEAKER_00
Have a shot of courage.
3
SPEAKER_00
And the next thing I know, I m out there with them.
3
SPEAKER_00
Um, yeah, I mean, it s it s a funny thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I know you guys know this, too.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like you have you have this side that has to has to show up and be fearless.
3
SPEAKER_00
But then you also I don t know if you guys are like this.
3
SPEAKER_00
As soon as you walk off stage, you go, oh, my God, I suck or I sucked or that was I want to do it again.
3
SPEAKER_00
I wish I could, you know, and it s it s that that sort of balance between
3
SPEAKER_00
stepping into it and then coming away from it and being able to just put it away without rehashing it with all the voices that are in your head that tell you you suck.
3
SPEAKER_02
I sometimes do it later on.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean, when you came off from Jagger, really in that moment, did you think, I just sucked?
3
SPEAKER_02
Or did you feel kind of cool?
3
SPEAKER_02
Obviously, the first faces are crew guys or whatever, and they have a range of compliments.
3
SPEAKER_02
And sometimes they ll change it mid-word.
3
SPEAKER_02
Or nothing.
3
SPEAKER_02
That was really good.
3
SPEAKER_02
You get these little messages and then if you get someone really hyperbole, you crushed it, you crushed it.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then later, hours later, I would think, ah, fuck, I missed that.
3
SPEAKER_02
I rushed that.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s a funny thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
That was such an out-of-body experience that it was hard to even relate to it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then compound that with, literally, we didn t even have a hit yet.
3
SPEAKER_00
All I want to do is come out and it was starting to happen.
3
SPEAKER_00
But
3
SPEAKER_00
I couldn t even process it.
3
SPEAKER_00
But my nature has always been to not think I m good enough.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I guess that s part of what propels you to work so hard is that you feel like whatever you re doing is never as great as the Rolling Stones or never as great as Stevie Nicks or not even as great as you think you should or could be.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s taken me years, really, to grapple with that.
3
SPEAKER_00
You talk about the mental challenges that go along with being an artist or somebody who puts themselves out there, that shows up
3
SPEAKER_00
Um, you know, I, I spent a little time with, um, Robin Williams, uh, the years, and you look at somebody like that who can open himself up and be so beautifully funny.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so I just happy.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
But then in their real life, you know, they re struggling and that s, that s the story of a lot of us.
3
SPEAKER_02
I got to know Robin quite a bit.
3
SPEAKER_02
I ve known him since the 70s.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I got to know him when we were both up here in Marin County for the last five years.
3
SPEAKER_02
And part of what I feel about him is like his shyness and his vulnerability.
3
SPEAKER_02
He would call me boss, but he was my idol.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then his powerhouse on stage, and really he created this idea of a Shakespearean actor just showing up.
3
SPEAKER_02
And it was just a brilliant concept of like, oh, hey, who, and you never knew where he was gonna go, you know?
3
SPEAKER_02
One thing I wanted to ask you, Cheryl, but David s gonna ask question first, go ahead.
3
SPEAKER_01
No, I have a question about,
3
SPEAKER_01
What to say to people when they get off stage.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I did the, God, why do I think you were here?
3
SPEAKER_01
Andrea Agassi charity in Vegas.
3
SPEAKER_01
Maybe you weren t there.
3
SPEAKER_00
I might have been there.
3
SPEAKER_01
All these stars go on, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
It s comedy.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was at the table with Ray Romano.
3
SPEAKER_01
I thought you were my, why do I even think this?
3
SPEAKER_01
Anyway.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was there.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
So you were there.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s the night I met Lance Armstrong.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay, carry on there.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, interesting.
3
SPEAKER_01
My next question.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s part two of the interview.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay, I ll whiz through this story first because this one sucks.
3
SPEAKER_01
So they go, Ray s there and you re there.
3
SPEAKER_01
We re all this tape, whatever.
3
SPEAKER_01
They go,
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay, you re going to go up, then Cheryl, then remember, remember.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I have to go up before Ray.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I go after, do you remember there was like an 11-year-old Phenom singer from like American Idol or something?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes, I do.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes, I do.
3
SPEAKER_01
So they go, she s only doing one song or something.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I m waiting in the wings.
3
SPEAKER_01
And she goes up and she does like, I will always love you or something.
3
SPEAKER_01
And she gets a standing ovation.
3
SPEAKER_01
And she walks off and I go, hey, get him next time.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then she goes, what?
3
SPEAKER_01
Because I had to get in her fucking head, Cheryl, because you know what?
3
SPEAKER_01
She blew me off the stage, and I hate I couldn t follow her.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I m like, hey, tough crowd, huh?
3
SPEAKER_01
And she s like, what?
3
SPEAKER_01
I love your honesty.
3
SPEAKER_01
I love that you re open.
3
SPEAKER_01
11 years old, I got to get in there and let her know what s going on, man.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so then I went on.
3
SPEAKER_00
And she s been in therapy ever since.
3
SPEAKER_01
She s like, didn t I get a standing ovation?
3
SPEAKER_01
She never sang again.
3
SPEAKER_01
Isn t that good?
3
SPEAKER_01
I m like, I mean.
3
SPEAKER_00
Never opened her mouth.
3
SPEAKER_01
So then I got up, first of all, that was embarrassing.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then I get up and then I bomb.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then I come down and I say to Ray Romano, just like comedian to comedian, I go, hey, listen, you re next.
3
SPEAKER_01
Listen, the tables are really far apart.
3
SPEAKER_01
They can t hear you in the front.
3
SPEAKER_01
There s kids in the back.
3
SPEAKER_01
There s a bar over here.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s just, it s the worst case scenario.
3
SPEAKER_01
He gets up and kills for 20 minutes straight.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I was like.
3
SPEAKER_01
After I just explained why he s gonna bomb, and there s absolutely no way to do well here.
3
SPEAKER_02
He doesn t go down for anybody.
3
SPEAKER_02
Have you ever, Cheryl, when I ve seen you sing on this documentary, it seems like if you have nerves, they never affect your voice.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like if you re terrified with Jagger, you don t hit a bad note, do you, in the whole thing?
3
SPEAKER_02
That s just more mathematical, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
You don t hit a bad note.
3
SPEAKER_00
I have bombed before, I promise.
3
SPEAKER_00
In fact, I can remember
3
SPEAKER_00
doing a tribute, I think it might have been, I feel like Neil Young was on it.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_00
It was a Music Cares thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I thought I knew the song, but I didn t know it very well.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I got up and literally could not think of a single word and sang practically the whole song, making up crap.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I remember coming off stage and John Sykes, who was the head of... VH1?
3
SPEAKER_00
The head of VH1 saying something about, wow, I don t know if I ve ever heard that rendition before.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes, I have definitely had moments of bombing.
3
SPEAKER_02
Oh, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
I ve had death-defying bombs, you know.
3
SPEAKER_02
I ve done corporate work occasionally.
3
SPEAKER_02
I worked a gun show.
3
SPEAKER_02
And all these guys were eating steaks with their backs to me and they would just take a bite and kind of look up.
3
SPEAKER_02
But you know, they pay you so much you have to do those.
3
SPEAKER_01
Comedians are easy.
3
SPEAKER_01
They throw you anywhere.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I m jealous of musicians because corporate gigs can be tough.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then, but with musicians, you can sort of, even if you bomb in quotes, you just say you re, you just do your song.
3
SPEAKER_01
The in-between is kind of awkward because there s crickets, but we re doing every line.
3
SPEAKER_01
We re getting feedback that it s not working.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s not.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I cannot, I just can t imagine being a comedian and I love, I love the art form.
3
SPEAKER_00
I love comedians and Dave, I ve never seen you bomb.
3
SPEAKER_00
You ve always made me laugh.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, that s nice.
3
SPEAKER_01
But you re a sweet person.
3
SPEAKER_01
And no, no, that s the truth.
3
SPEAKER_01
I just can t imagine.
3
SPEAKER_00
We did a corporate gig.
3
SPEAKER_00
No, no, no.
3
SPEAKER_00
We did a virtual gig during the pandemic.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I ve never done one of those where you do a concert in front of like nothing.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
There s no, like in between songs, it s like, okay, you hit that big last chord and then it s just crickets.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like playing in Japan.
3
SPEAKER_01
You look over and there s some guy on the side just texting.
3
SPEAKER_01
He s like, works here.
3
SPEAKER_01
He s like, go on, do your next song.
3
SPEAKER_02
I call it comedy waterboarding.
3
SPEAKER_02
I did one with Tony Robbins and he was interviewing me on the Zoom and he was so enthusiastic and he had a global audience and all these screens.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I would do Tony Fauci or something and go, give it up for Dana Carvey.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then there d be two minutes of music and I would just be dancing in my room.
4
SPEAKER_01
No laughs.
4
SPEAKER_01
Woo, yeah!
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, it s just fun.
4
SPEAKER_01
I love Tony.
4
SPEAKER_01
But I was gonna ask you, so you, the one thing about being hard on yourself and you re still around doing great stuff is that we have data now and there is something about lasting, you know, and putting out cool stuff.
4
SPEAKER_01
And it seems to me that when you really got into the super celebrity thing, it was when you re already exploding as a superstar, and then you re dating another superstar.
4
SPEAKER_01
And that s when the tabloids went 10.0, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah, oh yeah, definitely.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and you know, I think interestingly enough, I have dated people before that were well-known, but there was something about that combo that was just,
4
SPEAKER_00
It was an odd mix.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I mean, I wouldn t put myself with J-Lo and A-Rod like way up there, but a combo like that is, it s titillating, I guess.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s too juicy, yes.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
Well, because there was Owen, hey, how s it going?
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, love Owen.
4
SPEAKER_02
Oh, Owen s the coolest dude.
4
SPEAKER_00
I still communicate with Owen, I absolutely love him.
4
SPEAKER_00
Hey.
4
SPEAKER_00
Just, you know, and I mean, I ve been really fortunate and I don t really have anything bad to say about Lance at all.
4
SPEAKER_00
I have been really fortunate to be with the people that I ve been with and I wouldn t change it, you know.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think that- But I will say one thing, I did dream last night that I married Brad Pitt.
4
SPEAKER_02
You must know Brad pretty well.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s a good plan.
4
SPEAKER_00
I do know him pretty well.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, I went to college with him.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh, you did?
4
SPEAKER_01
Really?
4
SPEAKER_01
Did the girls all love him then?
4
SPEAKER_01
Or what was he like in college?
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, you know, it s really funny.
4
SPEAKER_00
He s a year younger than me.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I was the song or the, yeah, the song leader at his fraternity, Sigma Chi.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_00
So I went over and I would work with them with their, we had, I can t remember what it was called, Greek week or whatever.
4
SPEAKER_00
So I was like their coach or whatever.
4
SPEAKER_00
But I knew him from campus running around.
4
SPEAKER_00
I knew the girl he was dating and we were always friendly.
4
SPEAKER_00
He s from Springfield where your daughter is.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Always friendly, and I ve seen him through the years.
4
SPEAKER_00
He s a good dude.
4
SPEAKER_02
I swear he sort of takes an odd beating out there over this divorce thing that never ends, but I ve never seen him not be cool to people, not be nice to people.
4
SPEAKER_02
He seems like the most down to earth.
4
SPEAKER_00
He s a nice person.
4
SPEAKER_02
As big of a star as he is, he gives everybody time.
4
SPEAKER_02
I don t know how he does it, and then, but he keeps getting roughed up.
4
SPEAKER_02
I mean, that s a divorce for you, I guess.
4
SPEAKER_02
I don t know.
4
SPEAKER_01
The energy around someone like Brad Pitt, and I think part of his shyness or reclusiveness, and he s not really readily available, and it almost, like Clooney was with Matt Damon and Brad Pitt, and they re at some film festival in Europe, and Clooney just said he and Damon just disappeared as soon as Brad Pitt showed up.
4
SPEAKER_01
So this other level of being a true sex symbol and a really brilliant actor is just this 10.0.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, David, you know how that is.
4
SPEAKER_00
Being a sex symbol, there you go.
4
SPEAKER_02
Cheryl, I m glad you brought that up because my life arrangement is a struggle.
4
SPEAKER_02
But you know, the truth is also when you re dating, like you were saying, if you date someone in the business, like you almost have to date someone like an Owen, because like that song even says, are you strong enough?
4
SPEAKER_02
Like, first of all, the tabloids don t care when you date a normal person.
4
SPEAKER_02
So it s not as big of a deal.
4
SPEAKER_02
And people think you re not even dating, they don t know what s going on.
4
SPEAKER_02
And then they only jump on it.
4
SPEAKER_02
If it s someone they know, and they end like together, it equals like five stars.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s like two celebrities equal five.
4
SPEAKER_02
So it s like you see these people on like, reality shows together, they make one actual star.
4
SPEAKER_02
So that s why they always date each other.
4
SPEAKER_02
Someone from The Bachelor dates someone from this one.
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, the cynic kind of thinks, is it an arrangement, David?
4
SPEAKER_01
Is it sort of like, hey, let s date for three months.
4
SPEAKER_01
Our profile will explode.
4
SPEAKER_00
You two should get together for six months.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s why I m going to marry Brad Pitt, because I feel like that ll put me actually at least a five.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh, you d be huge.
4
SPEAKER_01
You and Brad Pitt?
4
SPEAKER_02
No, you two guys, people couldn t deal with it.
4
SPEAKER_02
That d be crazy.
4
SPEAKER_02
Too much talent.
4
SPEAKER_00
I love my life.
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t want to get married.
4
SPEAKER_00
I love my life.
4
SPEAKER_00
You don t want to get married?
4
SPEAKER_00
That s crazy.
4
SPEAKER_00
No, I just want to sleep around.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
All right, now let s unpack the last part of our podcast.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m gonna make sure my kids listen to this podcast.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, good.
4
SPEAKER_00
Hey, you know, women should own their sexuality.
4
SPEAKER_00
They should be able to do that too.
4
SPEAKER_00
They should, but I gotta be honest with you.
4
SPEAKER_00
Nine o clock at night, I m like, that s like, yeah, that s REM sleep for me at 9.30.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m out.
4
SPEAKER_02
If the guy s ready to rally from 8.50 to nine, if it s not in that window, beat it.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I m with you, Cher.
4
SPEAKER_01
During the pandemic, I just went to bed early, got up early.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s hard for a nightclub performer.
4
SPEAKER_02
when you get up at 5 30 and the show s at 10 that night you have to wait 18 hours but yeah i like doing this in vegas me and dana did this show and uh i do it usually then he covered for me once and he s like this thing s at fucking 10 dude i know i know and then we do a q a at the end so it s at like
4
SPEAKER_02
you get off by midnight, I go, is that, that s too late, right?
4
SPEAKER_02
And he s like, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I go, what am I doing?
4
SPEAKER_01
I like seven o clock shows.
4
SPEAKER_01
I really, at this age, I just like, I don t want to party.
4
SPEAKER_02
You also, I was going to say, oh yeah, no, I won t ask you about this, but
4
SPEAKER_02
Ask me anything.
4
SPEAKER_02
No, it s not that exciting.
4
SPEAKER_02
No, I m not, I m not.
4
SPEAKER_02
I first of all like that when, and especially when you said driven is sort of a negative to women, but I think that it s nice in this day and age when no one really seems to want to work or work hard, that that seems like a trophy to say I was, you know what I mean?
4
SPEAKER_02
You wear it like a medal, like I m driven meaning
4
SPEAKER_02
I actually want to bust my ass and try really hard to get in a business where it seems like every year that goes by that s not how it works anymore.
4
SPEAKER_02
People want to be given things or people want to jump ahead a lot easier and they don t want to work or they don t have to work and so I love watching that when people put in the hours because it is
4
SPEAKER_02
a hard job to get right.
4
SPEAKER_02
And if you take it seriously, whether it s stand up or that or any sort of writing you write and do it all and you perform, that that s like something I m so proud of.
4
SPEAKER_02
And it s weird when people give it to you like it s a negative.
4
SPEAKER_02
That s a hard thing to take.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think, I think for women, you know, the idea of an ambitious woman is such a turnoff.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like, you know, it s like a woman gets called a, like a bitch or, you know I can remember when, I mean, this goes way back, but what was the woman?
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh my gosh.
4
SPEAKER_00
uh who ran for president years ago sarah palin vice president no no no this way way i want to say kafara but it s not that but anyway uh
4
SPEAKER_00
about, there was always a discussion about how ambitious she was and how unlikable, you know, that kind of thing.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I don t know, I still find that is problematic when you have ambitious men and it s such an admirable trait, but for a woman to be ambitious, and let s face it, you know, if you are the head of a company or
4
SPEAKER_00
or if you re a politician or a successful woman in general, you have some ambition.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that ambition is fed by, hopefully, the desire to be really good at something and the love of doing that something.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that question you were just asking, David, about
4
SPEAKER_00
people not wanting to work hard.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, even in raising my boys, I keep having to say to them, look, if you re going to do this, you want to dedicate your energy and your time and you re blessed to have resources to be good at this thing that you love because it s not all about the end product.
4
SPEAKER_00
And it s, I don t know where we re off, like where, when I was growing up, everybody was middle-class.
4
SPEAKER_00
There was no, you know, people weren t rich.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so I grew up idolizing all these amazing musicians and bands.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I felt like I didn t it wasn t about being famous.
4
SPEAKER_00
It was about being great.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
4
SPEAKER_00
So I don t know where we re off.
4
SPEAKER_00
I guess it s really easy to be to be famous and it s really easy to get rich.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
So nobody really wants to, they don t equate work with becoming famous or work with becoming rich.
4
SPEAKER_01
It just changed and it s not anyone s fault.
4
SPEAKER_01
But we, when you were really, when you re on television as Frank Sinatra or whoever, or Stevie Nicks, they were just really great.
4
SPEAKER_01
and now because of social media and instant hits and stuff and it s very demoralizing for young people when they see and I do a joke a guy who opens pickles jars and is making seven figures all right my name s Steve today we re going
5
SPEAKER_02
gonna open some nice deals you know and he s making seven figures and you to be able to have a modernization he s gonna
5
SPEAKER_02
Interesting enough, this comes back to you.
5
SPEAKER_02
So the corporations of the big music publishing companies are now buying artist catalogs.
5
SPEAKER_02
They obviously got Springsteen, they got this.
5
SPEAKER_02
They re not so much buying the more modern product because these anthems
5
SPEAKER_02
These big songs really monetize well going generationally.
5
SPEAKER_02
Your hits are just right here, right now.
5
SPEAKER_02
Strong enough.
5
SPEAKER_02
I mean, they re just, it makes you happy, all those.
5
SPEAKER_02
Have you been approached or have you sold your catalog?
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, I sold my catalog, not my songwriters, but I sold my catalog about three albums ago because everything was going to streaming and we were approached with the idea that they would start getting placement so that the songs would be heard more.
5
SPEAKER_01
Um, but I wouldn t lose my songwriters.
5
SPEAKER_01
So I didn t get the, the giant chunk that like a Springsteen or, you know, Bob Dylan or whatever.
5
SPEAKER_00
What s a songwriter mean though?
5
SPEAKER_00
What do you mean?
5
SPEAKER_01
Um, so you get paid for the, um,
5
SPEAKER_01
You get paid publishing and you get paid your songwriter.
5
SPEAKER_01
So I split my songwriter with whoever I write my song with.
5
SPEAKER_01
And if I don t write it with somebody, then I take a hundred percent of the songwriters fee or whatever the money that comes in.
5
SPEAKER_01
So when it goes through ASCAP or BMI or wherever it is,
5
SPEAKER_01
Some of it goes to the publishing company, some of it goes to the songwriter.
5
SPEAKER_01
But it s interesting now because everything is streaming.
5
SPEAKER_01
We make a penny or maybe two pennies every time a song is streamed.
5
SPEAKER_01
how much of a penny do you get paid for the songwriting?
5
SPEAKER_01
It s nothing.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, 100% of a penny is still going to be a penny.
5
SPEAKER_01
So it s just ridiculous.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I love that Bruce and Neil and all these people are making hundreds of millions of dollars, but I go, I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, it s sort of like Bitcoin to me.
5
SPEAKER_00
Do you mean like, how does the people that buy it make it back?
5
SPEAKER_00
Because it s so, it s, is it overpaying?
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, I guess what they do is they sell the right to use that song in a commercial.
5
SPEAKER_00
They re out there to try to sell it to make money on movies and stuff like that.
5
SPEAKER_02
And that s why maybe the album is kind of over for now in a way.
5
SPEAKER_02
I mean, you re going to release more like just batches of songs.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m going to release batches of songs, but I mean, that s not for everybody.
5
SPEAKER_01
For me, like I said, I m 60.
5
SPEAKER_00
Is the new term batches, Dana?
5
SPEAKER_02
It s like pancakes, you re gonna do batches of songs.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like batch one, batch two.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, the promised land.
5
SPEAKER_00
I liked in the, Dana in the documentary, remember I think it was Toward the End, where she said, you came out to somewhere, maybe it was Bonnaroo, where s Bonnaroo, Tennessee or something?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
And the people weren t there yet, but by the time you went on, first of all, when you said four o clock, I was like, I was at one of those festivals and it was like, Norm Macdonald went on at noon, I went on at six.
5
SPEAKER_00
I luckily went on before Tom Petty, which is great.
5
SPEAKER_00
But
5
SPEAKER_00
It was kind of nighttime, but there were very weird times we went on.
5
SPEAKER_00
It was like all day.
5
SPEAKER_00
But you went on, the place was packed.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then you said this whole new generation, when you went to, I think, If It Makes You Happy, which is one of your big mongo hits, that they all knew it.
5
SPEAKER_00
And that s cool.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s the coolest thing is that it keeps going.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s for me like someone seeing a movie or something that they, a new generation knows it and you can t believe, how would you even see it?
5
SPEAKER_00
because that s something people like, people don t listen to radio.
5
SPEAKER_00
You go, oh, here s a new Sheryl Crow song, or here s an old one.
5
SPEAKER_00
Someone had to tell them or something, and they all know all the words.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s very cool.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, it s funny because about maybe five years ago, my manager started talking about, and now you re a legacy artist.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, oh, that s like, okay, I ve got my ARP card.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m a legacy artist.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s what I m trying to be.
5
SPEAKER_01
But it s kind of cool.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, people s kids have grown up.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, like I know Burt Bacharach and I know, of course, obviously another Rolling Stones, but I mean, I grew up with parents that played music and all this generation is growing up with parents who grew up with my music and
5
SPEAKER_01
It is.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s a rarefied place to be.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s, you know, it s awesome.
5
SPEAKER_02
Some high school kid today, boy or girl, is going to listen to My Favorite Mistake today for the first time and become possessed by it, you know?
5
SPEAKER_02
I mean, I notice in your songwriting, which is kind of cool in, you know, Brandi Carlile talked about it, you re kind of, you re doing these major chords or just this setup
5
SPEAKER_02
And then it goes in unexpected places.
5
SPEAKER_02
I m not a musicologist, but seems to go minor or weird that the second parts of your songs are so explosively different.
5
SPEAKER_02
And the setup is kind of, I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_02
I mean, how do you write a melody like that s that part for my favorite mistake?
5
SPEAKER_02
Because that s such a cool melody, weird.
5
SPEAKER_01
I don t know, but I will say, I love, I m so proud of my references.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like, I love the Beatles so much.
5
SPEAKER_01
What?
5
SPEAKER_01
I know.
5
SPEAKER_01
Guilty.
5
SPEAKER_01
Love the Beatles.
5
SPEAKER_01
And that documentary just, I mean, I binge watched it and then I re-watched the last episode.
5
SPEAKER_01
And, you know, I think a lot of stuff that I wind up writing is osmosis.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean,
5
SPEAKER_01
you know, I don t know what it s like to write jokes because it seems like, I mean, I m sure you guys grew up with George Carlin and Richard Pryor, all the greats, and I m sure.
5
SPEAKER_00
Same thing, same thing.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
So you get like a cadence or, you know, you do what they do for a while and then you go, okay, now you start,
5
SPEAKER_01
hopefully transitioning to who you are, and that becomes your thing, but you re still standing on the shoulders of all the dudes that wrote the book, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
You re like a research paper of your favorite people, then you start turning into your own.
5
SPEAKER_02
This is a horrible question to ask, but what Beatles songs speak to you off the top of your head that you really liked?
5
SPEAKER_02
Okay, I ll just start.
5
SPEAKER_02
Here, There, and Everywhere?
5
SPEAKER_01
I hear they re in everywhere.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, that song is amazing.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then you hear Amy Lou Harris do it and you go, that song is amazing again.
5
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, that s why their songs are so great.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yesterday is one of my favorite songs.
5
SPEAKER_01
Long and winding road is one of my favorite songs.
5
SPEAKER_01
Love by John Lennon is one of my favorite songs.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I got married to that.
5
SPEAKER_01
There s just so much good stuff in there.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, get back, come together.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, just, you know,
5
SPEAKER_01
But definitely Blackbird and Yesterday, to me, are the two of the greatest songs ever written.
5
SPEAKER_00
When we did talk to, we got lucky to talk to Paul, but he said, was it yesterday where he says, when he goes, when he brings it in, do you bring it in and go, I got a winner?
5
SPEAKER_00
And he goes, no, you can t.
5
SPEAKER_00
You have to walk in and go, hey, I did a new one if you guys wanna hear it.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then he said, Ringo said, I can t put any drums on that.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then John said, I can t put any more guitar on it.
5
SPEAKER_00
And they said, what if we put strings?
5
SPEAKER_00
And he said, no.
5
SPEAKER_00
That was George Martin.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and he said, no, we re rock and roll.
5
SPEAKER_00
We don t want strings on it.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I go, oh, we get a little bit of the process.
5
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it was interesting, Cheryl, and we can cut this out if it overlaps, but we did get to talk to Paul.
5
SPEAKER_02
And we were both very nervous.
5
SPEAKER_02
I was on the road in Wyoming with my family in Montana.
5
SPEAKER_02
But anyway, once we started talking about Get Back, he really lit up.
5
SPEAKER_02
And I asked him, did John ever thank you for your baselines?
5
SPEAKER_02
And that was like a big thing for him.
5
SPEAKER_02
What did he say?
5
SPEAKER_02
Well, we found our way to come together.
5
SPEAKER_02
and he talked about how John just had one line here come old flat top which was a Chuck Berry song he had to pay for later and then he kind of teased it out of him that he wrote that opener he said to John we gotta have an opener we can t just go right in so that became
5
SPEAKER_02
So I go, Paul, that s one of the best openings of a song ever.
5
SPEAKER_02
And then later on he had said, we wrote it face to face because he comes in, even though it s so Lenny, Paul comes in with one, a cracker, he got juju eyeballs.
5
SPEAKER_02
Paul, his comprehensive musicality, I think, just influenced the band.
5
SPEAKER_02
His fingerprints were everywhere, because he could do the percussion, he had a four octave range, sing all the harmonies, he could play all the keyboards and all the guitars.
5
SPEAKER_02
So anyway, interesting interview, and I couldn t sleep for a week after that, because I kept thinking of what I should have asked.
5
SPEAKER_01
I see.
5
SPEAKER_01
I would have just loved to have been in the room on the wall listening to you guys interview him, because that was one of the things about the documentary that may not to be like all woo woo and stuff, but.
6
SPEAKER_00
watching them in the room and the musicality of all four of those guys, like Ringo never played anything that didn t feel exactly perfect and right.
6
SPEAKER_00
For the song.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yep.
6
SPEAKER_00
For the song.
6
SPEAKER_00
Paul, I mean, everything he played was not just tasteful, but it was like unique and memorable.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, there was so much happening.
6
SPEAKER_00
His interplay, even the tension between he and George,
6
SPEAKER_00
all of, and then the combination of him and John, I know I m going on, I m going somewhere.
6
SPEAKER_00
We love to talk about the Beatles.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I am so, I so believe that there is an energetic component to the universe that brings that together.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, because
6
SPEAKER_00
there are too many instances where you just go, where in the world did that come from?
6
SPEAKER_00
Or even when you write a song and you go, okay, like my favorite mistake, I felt that way after that song.
6
SPEAKER_00
I felt like, okay, I don t know where that came from.
6
SPEAKER_00
And also I feel like it s already been written because it feels so complete.
6
SPEAKER_00
There are moments where you go, okay, you can t define what creativity is.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
You can t really define what inspiration is.
6
SPEAKER_00
But it is a real thing.
6
SPEAKER_00
And that to me is like, okay, that s just God.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, however you want to define that energy that is unique to you.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I watched that in that documentary, that energy that no matter what was happening between them, it all was part of
6
SPEAKER_00
the outcome.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
6
SPEAKER_00
I guess the older I get, the more I get into the idea that these things aren t accidents.
6
SPEAKER_00
You re tapping into something.
6
SPEAKER_02
Well, Dennis Miller, who s a big Beatle fan, he said it this way to me.
6
SPEAKER_02
He goes, Carvey, I can understand Led Zeppelin, okay?
6
SPEAKER_02
I get Pink Floyd or, you know, U2 and all that.
6
SPEAKER_02
But for the life of me, I can t understand the Beatles.
6
SPEAKER_02
How does that happen?
6
SPEAKER_02
and it s lightning in a bottle.
6
SPEAKER_02
What was sweet about it, Cheryl, and it ll be on the podcast, is that he still has this love of John, and he loved that you could see them joking around with each other.
6
SPEAKER_02
Even though John was taking the piss out of him a little bit.
6
SPEAKER_02
There was a bit of a competition going on because Paul had Long and Windy Road.
6
SPEAKER_02
He was on this upswing and had a ton of songs.
6
SPEAKER_02
And John had to bring Across the Universe to the album, which is insane.
6
SPEAKER_00
Mind-blowing.
6
SPEAKER_02
It s like a left, it s a right.
6
SPEAKER_02
It s too much.
6
SPEAKER_02
I mean, the amount of hits.
6
SPEAKER_02
You could retire off that one alone.
6
SPEAKER_02
I know.
6
SPEAKER_02
It s unreal.
6
SPEAKER_02
If he just wrote Here, There and Everywhere, he d be a famous person.
6
SPEAKER_02
I can see your influence in a good way, but you have your own Sheryl Crow brand, but I think you do write songs, I m sure, if you ve met Paul, and I m sure he s a fan of your music.
6
SPEAKER_02
That s pretty trippy, right?
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t know if he is or not, but it s kind of funny, I did meet him when I was doing Fallon in the NBC building, and it s funny because
6
SPEAKER_00
I have so many memories, I mean, certainly from doing Saturday Night Live.
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh, that s right.
6
SPEAKER_00
Of being in that building and getting to meet people, you know?
6
SPEAKER_03
Oh, yeah.
6
SPEAKER_03
Three times on SNL, Sheryl Crow.
6
SPEAKER_00
Three times on SNL.
6
SPEAKER_03
That s a hard one to do.
6
SPEAKER_03
They have so, the choice of anyone at all times and to get asked back three different times.
6
SPEAKER_00
I had to sleep with Lauren like 11 times.
6
SPEAKER_03
Oh, I ve been there.
6
SPEAKER_03
What did Lauren say to you?
6
SPEAKER_03
I m still sleeping with him.
6
SPEAKER_03
I don t know why.
6
SPEAKER_03
I don t even know.
6
SPEAKER_03
It s just I m in a habit.
6
SPEAKER_02
So you ll be doing if it makes you happy and that ll be your first song.
6
SPEAKER_02
Maybe something we ve heard of.
6
SPEAKER_02
Maybe a second song you pick, dealer s choice.
6
SPEAKER_02
Here s what Paul said to me about you, Cheryl.
6
SPEAKER_01
You know, I go, Paul, who do you like contemporary?
6
SPEAKER_01
Well, you know, I like Cheryl Crowe, you know.
6
SPEAKER_01
She s got a good thumper.
6
SPEAKER_01
She s got a good, you know, bassy.
6
SPEAKER_01
It goes guitars and harmonies.
6
SPEAKER_01
She s a big vocal, a big voicer.
6
SPEAKER_01
Sorry.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s fine.
6
SPEAKER_00
He didn t say that.
6
SPEAKER_03
Don t.
6
SPEAKER_03
She s freaking out.
6
SPEAKER_03
Don t say that.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m freaking out just going, oh my gosh.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m sure he loves you.
6
SPEAKER_00
I wish I would have recorded that and then posted it like he actually did say that.
6
SPEAKER_01
You know, if it makes you happy, why are you so sad?
6
SPEAKER_01
You know, it s one of those turns John and I would do.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s like a big old chorus, you know, makes you happy.
6
SPEAKER_01
You think, oh, it makes you happy.
6
SPEAKER_01
Then why are you so sad?
6
SPEAKER_01
You know, it takes the carpet out, you know, and that one keeps it going, you know.
6
SPEAKER_01
It gets you all wheely-jeely.
6
SPEAKER_01
I don t know, okay, I ll do it all day.
6
SPEAKER_02
That s incredible.
6
SPEAKER_02
That sounds, that s incredible.
6
SPEAKER_02
I d do it just to be with Paul McCartney.
6
SPEAKER_00
Will you call my voicemail and just leave that on there for me so I can use it?
6
SPEAKER_00
It s not here right now.
6
SPEAKER_00
I can t do it.
6
SPEAKER_03
Dana, I gotta tell Cheryl before we let her leave and go back to Nashville.
6
SPEAKER_03
She doesn t want to leave.
6
SPEAKER_03
She wants to talk about- She doesn t want to leave.
6
SPEAKER_03
I don t!
6
SPEAKER_03
I have to tell her that when I m looking over these songs, first of all, I like that... I m trying to look at my favorite ones just for absolutely no reason.
6
SPEAKER_03
But if it makes you happy, I like that you work in mosquito in that one, because it s hard to get into songs.
6
SPEAKER_00
Thoroughly unused pop word.
6
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it s very, very underused.
6
SPEAKER_03
And I have to say, and this is a dumb story, but when I was...
6
SPEAKER_03
With kid rock one of his albums came out and this we re hanging out more and he goes I think he was up against pink when it came out.
6
SPEAKER_03
Hmm.
6
SPEAKER_03
I don t know why I remember this is probably a lie, but I So he s driving You can attest to this if you re in a car with him.
6
SPEAKER_03
He s playing his album if you re in his house.
6
SPEAKER_03
He s playing his album It s anywhere.
6
SPEAKER_03
He s playing a video of himself.
6
SPEAKER_03
So, um, he goes you got to hear the new album and I go Oh, and then he played the whole the whole thing
6
SPEAKER_03
So I don t know as much about music as you or Dana.
6
SPEAKER_03
I don t know anything.
6
SPEAKER_02
Dana knows a lot.
6
SPEAKER_03
I m just a fan.
6
SPEAKER_03
So he plays the songs and he goes this one s the one that comes out first and then this one and this one and then fucking picture comes on.
6
SPEAKER_03
And I know nothing, Cheryl.
6
SPEAKER_03
And I go, that s fucking great.
6
SPEAKER_03
And I go play that one again.
6
SPEAKER_03
And he goes, it s with Cheryl.
6
SPEAKER_03
And I go, God damn, that s catchy.
6
SPEAKER_03
That is so good.
6
SPEAKER_03
And she s so good in it.
6
SPEAKER_03
And he goes, well, that s going to come later.
6
SPEAKER_03
And if I m not mistaken, the first two songs did okay.
6
SPEAKER_03
And then picture blew the fuck up.
6
SPEAKER_03
Is that possible?
6
SPEAKER_03
It exploded.
6
SPEAKER_03
It s so good.
6
SPEAKER_03
It s so good.
6
SPEAKER_00
And you know what he said, which was funny?
6
SPEAKER_00
He said, after you recorded it, he said, that s going to go to number one.
6
SPEAKER_00
I was like, really?
6
SPEAKER_03
Oh, that s so cool.
6
SPEAKER_00
And he s like, that s going to go to number one.
6
SPEAKER_03
I m telling you, it pops up in my iPod all the time.
6
SPEAKER_03
And it s so fucking good.
6
SPEAKER_03
And you re so great in it.
6
SPEAKER_03
And I just go, God.
6
SPEAKER_03
And I know he takes a beating out there, but he can sing, man.
6
SPEAKER_03
He gets it right.
6
SPEAKER_03
And that one, he got right.
6
SPEAKER_03
And he s got a lot of great shit out there.
6
SPEAKER_03
How did that happen?
6
SPEAKER_03
He had it and it came to you, or you had it and it came to him, or what happened?
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh, no, he had it.
6
SPEAKER_00
In fact, I didn t write nearly as much on that as he did.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, and he s he s super like when he s in the studio, he is fearless, man.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, he has listened to so much great music and can play a lot of things.
6
SPEAKER_00
And, you know, he he s really masterful at getting his ideas down.
6
SPEAKER_03
And he knows it back and forth.
6
SPEAKER_03
He knows.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, he does.
6
SPEAKER_00
And he s but he s also, you know, very savvy when it comes to what he thinks will hit.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_03
You know, it s funny.
6
SPEAKER_03
I used to bust his balls because he goes, Hey, I got this, this guy wants me to come play his birthday party.
6
SPEAKER_03
Give me 50 grand to come sing.
6
SPEAKER_03
I go, does he give you another 50 to get off?
6
SPEAKER_03
Because he d play, we do karaoke at my birthday party.
6
SPEAKER_03
And he goes, maybe I ll get up with these guys.
6
SPEAKER_03
I m like, maybe it s, it s going to within seconds.
6
SPEAKER_03
So he would sing karaoke.
6
SPEAKER_03
And then that was for the next three hours.
6
SPEAKER_03
He can t wait.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t know if you ever came down to, in New York, I think it was in the late nineties, maybe we would show up once a week at Shine, which was a club downtown.
6
SPEAKER_00
And we do all covers and any given night.
6
SPEAKER_03
Oh my God, how fun.
6
SPEAKER_00
Mike Mills, Stevie Nicks sat in with us.
6
SPEAKER_00
Keith Richards sat in with us.
6
SPEAKER_00
Anyway, Kid Rock came down and it was the same night that Keith sat in and he kept yelling Keith s name, Keith Richards, Keith Richards.
6
SPEAKER_00
And Keith got really mad, like irritating.
6
SPEAKER_00
He s like,
6
SPEAKER_00
could say my fucking name.
6
SPEAKER_00
And at one point I m just like, OK, I m not sure how to manage.
6
SPEAKER_00
You know, we re doing all these bad 90s covers.
6
SPEAKER_00
But yeah, he s a lot of fun.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I will say that picture.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
Is one of the most covered songs, the karaoke in law for sure.
6
SPEAKER_00
That is, you know, one of my claims of fame.
6
SPEAKER_03
I m telling you, it s on top of everything else you ve done.
6
SPEAKER_03
And then I was looking at this and I go, oh, that s right.
6
SPEAKER_03
Picture on top of all this stuff.
6
SPEAKER_03
So just had to high five you for that one.
6
SPEAKER_03
That s so good.
6
SPEAKER_00
Gotta high five Bobby for that one.
6
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, yeah.
6
SPEAKER_03
He does.
6
SPEAKER_03
I bust his balls all the time, but he is good.
6
SPEAKER_02
Okay, you know, traveling, woolberries, wallberries.
6
SPEAKER_02
So, past and present, if you were going to make a female supergroup, who would be in there?
6
SPEAKER_02
I mean, obviously you would put in Stevie Nicks.
7
SPEAKER_00
Obviously, I would put in Stevie Nicks, most definitely.
7
SPEAKER_02
Super group, 10 out of 10, Stevie Nicks.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and I would ask Brandy, you know.
7
SPEAKER_01
She loves you, and she s cool.
7
SPEAKER_00
Brandy is amazing, and she s a great songwriter, and she s just a kick-ass chick.
7
SPEAKER_01
The Joker, yeah, she s cool.
7
SPEAKER_00
God, who else?
7
SPEAKER_02
It s only three, it s like Nirvana so far.
7
SPEAKER_00
I know.
7
SPEAKER_02
Bonnie Raitt, Emmylou Harris.
7
SPEAKER_00
Bonnie would be amazing.
7
SPEAKER_00
Emmy would be amazing.
7
SPEAKER_00
Linda Ronstadt would be amazing.
7
SPEAKER_00
Linda Ronstadt, I was going to say.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
7
SPEAKER_00
I mean, young wise, I mean, you know, the traveling wheelbarrows, each one of them had a huge full body of material.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
So, I mean, because there s a lot of young people out there that will be great.
7
SPEAKER_00
Who s young that you like?
7
SPEAKER_00
Oh man, I mean, I love Maren, she s a great songwriter, great performer, great singer.
7
SPEAKER_00
I love Courtney Barnett, she s amazing.
7
SPEAKER_00
I love the High M girls, they re great.
7
SPEAKER_00
Who else?
7
SPEAKER_02
This goes on and on.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I love Florence and the Machine.
7
SPEAKER_00
She s really interesting.
7
SPEAKER_00
There s a young girl named Cassie, I want to say.
7
SPEAKER_00
Anyway, there s a lot of good young female music out there.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s hard to break through though.
7
SPEAKER_01
I mean, there s just so much of everything.
7
SPEAKER_01
Everything is everything now.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s true.
7
SPEAKER_02
What s in your hand?
7
SPEAKER_02
What s going on down there?
7
SPEAKER_00
Who, me?
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
Oh, guitar picks.
7
SPEAKER_01
Are you going to write, as soon as this podcast is over, are you going to pick up one of those guitars and just go fucking crazy and write a masterpiece?
7
SPEAKER_02
Are you going to write a song about me and Damien?
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, just like, podcasting with the lady and Joe Dirt.
7
SPEAKER_01
What is it?
7
SPEAKER_00
Oh.
7
SPEAKER_02
Did you forget how to play?
7
SPEAKER_02
What is that?
7
SPEAKER_00
I can t even hear it.
7
SPEAKER_00
Oh, that sounded a little Patti Smith, didn t it?
7
SPEAKER_01
I liked it.
7
SPEAKER_01
It had a little punk to it.
7
SPEAKER_01
We ll get it on TikTok right away.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s cool.
7
SPEAKER_00
Please do.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
Please get me on TikTok.
7
SPEAKER_00
I know.
7
SPEAKER_02
Is that something they want you to do is like try to snippet your song on TikTok?
7
SPEAKER_00
Okay, so the documentary was coming out and Showtime was really hoping that I would open a TikTok account and do TikTok.
7
SPEAKER_00
God, is that so real?
7
SPEAKER_00
My 12-year-old was like, mom, please don t.
7
SPEAKER_00
She s like, that is so cringey.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m on TikTok and it s so gross.
7
SPEAKER_02
I m gonna join it.
7
SPEAKER_00
You know that word cringey though?
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, fuck yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
Doing something that you shouldn t be doing because you re not cool.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s crazy.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s right.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I m I m thinking of joining it, though.
7
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
7
SPEAKER_01
You are.
7
SPEAKER_02
I don t look at any social media, but I ve heard it as you look and he gets comments and I have to answer for him because they go, hey, what is Dana thinking?
7
SPEAKER_02
I go, Dana, what problem?
7
SPEAKER_01
I don t see look at anything, but I do.
7
SPEAKER_01
From what I understand, the New York you should do to talk.
7
SPEAKER_01
You would be huge.
7
SPEAKER_01
Well,
7
SPEAKER_01
Okay, I m saying that, and I don t... Thank you, Cheryl.
7
SPEAKER_02
You don t know anything, and it s based on no knowledge of anything.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s right.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s based on methods.
7
SPEAKER_01
New York Times had a 20-page article on what is TikTok.
7
SPEAKER_01
So, essentially, I got the idea that rhythmic musicality is shared.
7
SPEAKER_01
Like, you make something... Like, if I did... Then other people take it and go with it.
7
SPEAKER_01
So, I don t know.
7
SPEAKER_01
If it is about audio... Chopping broccoli could work.
7
SPEAKER_00
...musicality, catchphrasing... Chopping broccoli could work.
7
SPEAKER_02
Cheryl knows what it is.
7
SPEAKER_00
I do.
7
SPEAKER_00
I do.
7
SPEAKER_00
Chopping broccoli.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I ve said that in my kitchen to my boys and they look at me like, what?
7
SPEAKER_00
Ah, we got to get your boys up to speed, man.
7
SPEAKER_01
My kids don t like me.
7
SPEAKER_01
I try to turn them on to all the good stuff.
7
SPEAKER_01
They don t think I m funny.
7
SPEAKER_02
They just show me Drake and Joe Dirt and Benchwarmers
7
SPEAKER_02
Oh, they re gonna watch Joe Dirt, for sure.
7
SPEAKER_00
Oh, they ll watch Joe Dirt.
7
SPEAKER_00
And they need to know who the church lady is, for sure.
7
SPEAKER_01
In Wayne s world, they usually are okay with that.
7
SPEAKER_00
In Wayne s world, they need to know.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yes, they will.
7
SPEAKER_00
They will.
7
SPEAKER_00
Get them up to speed.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, party on, dude.
7
SPEAKER_01
So, Cheryl, you ll be at the 50th for SNL in three years, the 50th anniversary.
7
SPEAKER_01
I hope so.
7
SPEAKER_01
I hope I m invited.
7
SPEAKER_01
Are you kidding?
7
SPEAKER_01
Dave and I have been in.
7
SPEAKER_02
I m Dana s plus one.
7
SPEAKER_02
I d like to do a sketch with you.
7
SPEAKER_02
And then next time we go down there, we ll make Cheryl come out to the show.
7
SPEAKER_00
Hey, would y all please let me know if you ever come to Nashville?
7
SPEAKER_00
I m your buddy.
7
SPEAKER_00
I know, but I didn t really know for sure.
7
SPEAKER_01
Definitely, I love Nashville.
7
SPEAKER_00
We think about moving there all the time.
7
SPEAKER_00
Nashville s cool.
7
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s cool.
7
SPEAKER_00
Just don t come here and buy a house.
7
SPEAKER_01
Oh.
7
SPEAKER_01
California, come on out to take over.
7
SPEAKER_01
Californians making the prices go up, that kind of thing, interlopers.
7
SPEAKER_01
Oh my gosh, you have no idea.
7
SPEAKER_01
Montana, I m from Montana.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s all going on up there.
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SPEAKER_01
All the billionaires are coming in.
7
SPEAKER_01
I ll take five of those.
7
SPEAKER_02
There s a great comedian, Theo Vaughn, one of my good buddies lives out there.
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SPEAKER_02
So when I go see him, I ll play the Ryman and then I ll make you come down.
7
SPEAKER_01
How many seats is the Ryman?
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SPEAKER_01
I want to go in there and rock that place.
7
SPEAKER_01
How much is it?
7
20?
7
SPEAKER_00
300?
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SPEAKER_00
I think I played it once.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s 20 somewhere around there.
7
SPEAKER_02
I did play it once.
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SPEAKER_02
Was it the Grand Ole Opry or am I being stupid?
7
SPEAKER_00
It was the Grand Ole Opry and before that it was a church way, way early.
7
SPEAKER_00
Before that it was a Whataburger?
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SPEAKER_01
I played it and I came off stage and Cheryl happened to be there and she goes, that was good.
7
SPEAKER_01
That was so, you really went out there, didn t you?
7
SPEAKER_01
She goes, oh, they re a little tight.
7
SPEAKER_01
Why do we have all this self-loathing?
7
SPEAKER_01
What the fuck is going on?
7
SPEAKER_02
Here s the one to say, Dana, when Cheryl gets off, I m going to go, fuck that crowd.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m gonna get in the fetal position.
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SPEAKER_01
And you go, wait, I thought I did good.
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SPEAKER_00
I thought they liked me.
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SPEAKER_00
No, they were tough.
7
SPEAKER_00
No, that was a hard crowd, man.
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SPEAKER_01
No, we ll get them, we ll get them later.
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SPEAKER_01
I m gonna get in the fetal position and cry myself to sleep with questions I should have done better.
7
SPEAKER_00
Oh no you aren t!
7
SPEAKER_00
This was the best podcast I ve ever done.
7
SPEAKER_01
Ever.
7
SPEAKER_01
Thank you.
7
SPEAKER_01
We love you.
7
SPEAKER_01
You know, she s really good on the podcast.
7
SPEAKER_01
She s very straightforward.
7
SPEAKER_01
You don t have to play any games.
7
SPEAKER_01
I do Paul now.
7
SPEAKER_01
I actually write songs as Paul.
7
SPEAKER_00
Okay, wait, when you interviewed Paul, did you do Paul?
7
SPEAKER_01
Oh yeah, did you do it?
7
SPEAKER_00
Did you do Paul in your interview?
7
SPEAKER_01
I might have done it a little bit.
7
SPEAKER_01
I was a little, I couldn t, you know, I was trying, I didn t want to piss him off, but I probably did a little bit.
7
SPEAKER_02
I had interview paralysis.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_02
I was like, I m Dana s Yoko.
7
SPEAKER_02
I mean, there s just so many things you re scared to say to him because he seems very light on his feet, but he s too respected, you can t risk it.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, he s a sir, right?
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it s too big a deal.
7
SPEAKER_01
We didn t go there with a sir.
7
SPEAKER_01
At first I read a lot of Liverpudlian phrases, so I said, did you have your brekkie?
7
SPEAKER_01
Your brekkie?
7
SPEAKER_01
But he was just waking up, he had a cup of coffee.
7
SPEAKER_01
I don t think he knew what I was talking about.
7
SPEAKER_01
Because that s breakfast in Liverpudlian language.
7
SPEAKER_01
A scouser.
7
SPEAKER_01
You know, we had a good time.
7
SPEAKER_01
This is him now, you know, we did some things.
7
SPEAKER_02
No, he got into it, he got into it toward the end.
7
SPEAKER_01
We loved it, but yeah, we were getting stuff from each other, it was just electrifying.
7
SPEAKER_01
And he wanted to talk about the Beatles the whole time.
7
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
7
SPEAKER_00
I didn t know that in the beginning.
7
SPEAKER_00
I can t wait to hear it.
7
SPEAKER_00
From the guy.
7
SPEAKER_02
All right.
7
SPEAKER_02
So anyway.
7
SPEAKER_01
All right, let her go back to- Cheryl, everybody loves you.
7
SPEAKER_01
You re a great artist.
7
SPEAKER_01
I don t like, you know, Legacy, what s that?
7
SPEAKER_01
And you know, you re in Nashville.
7
SPEAKER_01
You re like a teenager.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
A teenager, really?
7
SPEAKER_01
Natural teenager at 60.
7
SPEAKER_01
Country music does not have an age, that s what s brilliant about it.
7
SPEAKER_00
No, it s true, it does not.
7
SPEAKER_01
You do pop, rock, jazz, you do every style, but you also can do country.
7
SPEAKER_00
I have to say, I feel like I m in my 20s.
7
SPEAKER_00
You look like you re in your 20s.
7
SPEAKER_00
And that s why I really like doing podcasts, because as far as your listening audience knows, I look like I m in my 20s.
7
SPEAKER_00
There, I said it.
7
SPEAKER_02
You look great, your voice is still raspy and sexy, and your singing is still perfect.
7
SPEAKER_00
Because I m still smoking like a fiend.
7
SPEAKER_00
No, I m kidding, I m not.
7
SPEAKER_01
You stayed really fit, even when you were touring.
7
SPEAKER_01
I was gonna ask how you stayed so fit throughout your career, because usually you tour a lot.
7
SPEAKER_00
I have to admit, it is genetic.
7
SPEAKER_00
What?
7
SPEAKER_00
Yes, it s genetic.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m from a long line of small, petite, wiry people.
7
SPEAKER_01
So you don t gain weight, you just kind of, and you work out on stage when you re out there.
7
SPEAKER_00
I work out on stage and I m very, I mean, I get up in the morning and I do not sit down.
7
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I m, I m always doing.
7
SPEAKER_02
Her backstage rider is five Triscuits in a slim gym.
7
SPEAKER_00
And that s all I get all day.
7
SPEAKER_02
That s it, and one five-hour energy.
7
SPEAKER_02
Actually, that s mine.
7
SPEAKER_00
All right, Cheryl, let s let her go, Dana.
7
SPEAKER_02
She s been too nice.
7
SPEAKER_00
Guys, thank you.
7
SPEAKER_00
Bye, Cheryl.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s good to see y all.
7
SPEAKER_01
We ll see you soon, I m sure, in Nashville.
7
SPEAKER_00
I hope so.
7
SPEAKER_00
Call me when you come to Nashville.
7
SPEAKER_01
Will do.
7
SPEAKER_01
Okay, bye, hon.
7
SPEAKER_00
Bye.
7
SPEAKER_01
Bye, Cheryl.
7
SPEAKER_01
Love you.
7
SPEAKER_00
Love you.
7
SPEAKER_02
Hey, what s up, flies?
7
SPEAKER_02
What s up, fleas?
7
SPEAKER_02
What s up, people that listen?
7
SPEAKER_02
We want to hear from you and your dumb questions.
7
SPEAKER_02
Questions, ask us anything.
7
SPEAKER_02
Anything you want.
7
SPEAKER_02
You can email us at flyonthewallatcadence13.com.
7
SPEAKER_01
If it makes you happy.
7
SPEAKER_02
I m not even going to look at the question.
7
SPEAKER_02
Just you tell me.
8
SPEAKER_01
Okay, this from Ryan Sozin.
8
SPEAKER_01
Hi, Ryan.
8
SPEAKER_01
Hi, David and Dana.
8
SPEAKER_01
Okay, here it is for Dave.
8
SPEAKER_01
I know you like a little ego boost to start, so love the show.
8
SPEAKER_00
They did say that?
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_00
That s funny.
8
SPEAKER_01
I was wondering why you both chose stand-up over improv en route to SNL.
8
SPEAKER_01
Did you consider improv?
8
SPEAKER_01
What makes a funny person more successful at one over the other?
8
SPEAKER_01
It s a two-parter.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_00
Okay, I would say improv is harder for me.
8
SPEAKER_00
I m pretty good on my feet, but to go to those improv freeze tag games and things you do, we would do it at the end of a comedy show once in a blue moon in Arizona at Anderson s Fifth Estate.
8
SPEAKER_00
and they would get up to the host and all the comics get up and the crowd would yell out, but it was like freeze, then you go and then you go, oh, holy super glue Batman, my hand is stuck here.
8
SPEAKER_00
But there was, I could see that they were doing like the same kind of ones.
8
SPEAKER_01
Well, stockprov, I better have an improv group open for me.
8
SPEAKER_01
The first night it s like, people are yelling out movie styles, like Woody Allen, and they all of course, you know, you re great, no, you know, and then the next night they yell out, Woody Allen, and they re all going, you know, I go, this is not improv, it s stockprov.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s hard though.
8
SPEAKER_00
It s hard to do improv, real improv, when I watch, whose line is it anyway?
8
SPEAKER_00
It s just different muscles.
8
SPEAKER_00
Stand-up is one thing, it s written mostly, and improv is improv.
8
SPEAKER_00
But they can both get you on SNL, they can both help you in movies and TV.
8
SPEAKER_01
I would say for me, I might ve, if I was in LA and got a whole, or the groundlings, they didn t have stuff like that in San Francisco, so I didn t know about it.
8
SPEAKER_01
I think I might ve joined it.
8
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes the problem is some of the,
8
SPEAKER_00
not top tier ones will say, oh, come audition.
8
SPEAKER_00
Oh, you know, you re really good for 500, you can join this level.
8
SPEAKER_00
And then they keep getting 500 to go to the next level.
8
SPEAKER_00
And they re just letting anyone do it.
8
SPEAKER_00
It s like Amway.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and it s just a pyramid scheme.
8
SPEAKER_00
And you bring your friend in, you get 10%.
8
SPEAKER_00
And at the end of the year, you re out 10 grand, but you can go, oh, holy super glue, Batman.
8
SPEAKER_01
I was trying to do sketch my whole life, but I was in honky tonk bars.
8
SPEAKER_01
So it was like really hard.
8
SPEAKER_01
And it took me three years to say, I m gonna be another character for a minute.
8
SPEAKER_01
And it was like, I had sunglasses, I was trying to be Robin Williams.
8
SPEAKER_01
Oh, because they didn t like it?
8
SPEAKER_01
Well, because I was terrified of, it was just scary.
8
SPEAKER_01
I had a character called Dana Babe.
8
SPEAKER_01
Oh, you re fabulous.
8
SPEAKER_01
It was my first character.
8
SPEAKER_01
I put sunglasses on.
8
SPEAKER_01
I was horrible, but that s where I got the guts to do sketch, sketch standup, I call it.
8
SPEAKER_00
All right, next week, we re gonna do a whole half hour on Dana Babe.
8
SPEAKER_01
Oh, flash story, it was in the other cafe and the people who were headlining there got sandwiches and there was the Dana-babe sandwich.
8
SPEAKER_01
Oh, that s not bad.
8
SPEAKER_00
I m not kidding.
8
SPEAKER_00
There s a picture somewhere.
8
SPEAKER_00
There s a Joe Drew pizza down at Mutz in Newport.
8
SPEAKER_00
Dana-babe.
8
SPEAKER_01
I had big yellow goggle sunglasses.
8
SPEAKER_00
Alright, thank you for that question.
8
SPEAKER_00
Thank you, really appreciate it.
8
SPEAKER_00
Ryan.
8
SPEAKER_00
This has been a podcast presentation of Cadence 13.
8
SPEAKER_00
Please listen, then rate, review, and follow all episodes.
8
SPEAKER_00
Available now for free wherever you get your podcasts.
8
SPEAKER_00
No joke, folks.
8
SPEAKER_01
Fly on the Wall has been a presentation of Cadence 13, executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Chris Corcoran of Cadence 13, and Charlie Finan of Brillstein Entertainment.
8
SPEAKER_00
The show s lead producer is Greg Holtzman, with production and engineering support from Serena Regan and Chris Basil of Cadence 13.