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It turns out that 95% of serotonin is produced not in your brain, in your gut.
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Come on.
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I was in a dark place.
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And making that change completely radically transformed my health.
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And because I had that moment, I m a medical doctor and I care a lot.
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So I felt like I have no choice.
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I have to bring this into the clinic.
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A board-certified, award-winning gastroenterologist.
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Two-time New York Times best-selling author.
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The man with the master plan for the microbiome.
0
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Welcome, Dr. Will Bulsiewicz.
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Dr. Will Bulsiewicz.
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Dr. Will Bulsiewicz.
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We got 38 trillion microbes.
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Now, this is, by the way, more than we have human cells.
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Really?
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Yeah, we are less than 50% human.
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How many times should we be pooping a day?
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That s just getting right to it.
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I m just curious.
0
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I m so glad that you asked this question.
0
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Inflammation influences anxiety and depression.
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Oh, 100%.
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You could do all the right things physically, but if you don t feel emotionally or psychologically, you can t take off as a human being.
0
100%.
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That is fascinating.
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I think this is the missing piece that a lot of people haven t heard and they need to hear.
0
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Wow.
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Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness.
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Very excited about our guest.
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We have the inspiring Dr. Will Bolzewicz in the house, who is the U.S.
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medical director at ZOE.
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and also a New York Times bestselling author, and also a gastroenterologist.
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Welcome to the show.
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Very excited.
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Thank you, my friends.
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It s great to be here.
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I m very excited.
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There s so many things I want to talk to you about.
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The first one being the connection between the gut and the brain, and how much gut health actually impacts mental health.
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There s a lot of anxiety, stress, overwhelm,
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mental diseases or just blurriness mentally it feels like in society today.
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How much does our gut health impact our mental health?
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Yeah, well, we ve seen these conditions that are escalating.
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Depression, anxiety, different mental health disorders, different cognitive disorders, including Alzheimer s disease, Parkinson s, things like this.
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And the question is, what the heck is going on here?
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And when you see things changing this quickly, it s not genetic.
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So you have to take a step back and say, what is it about our environment?
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What is it about the way that we live that ultimately is resulting in this effect?
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Because we didn t have all these mental health issues 50 years ago.
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Well, they existed.
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They existed, but they didn t exist to the level of intensity or the number of people that are being affected by these things as what we see today.
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And these are complex issues.
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So to sit here and pretend that this is just this one thing, you know, hey, it s the gut microbes.
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That s all that matters.
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That would be oversimplifying it.
0
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But I think that the important point, though, that the listeners need to hear is that these gut microbes do play a role.
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So in order to introduce this conversation, I feel like let s take a quick moment, take a zoom out and let s talk about the microbiome, which is the living microorganisms that are a part of our body.
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There are 38 trillion microorganisms that exist covering all external surfaces of our body.
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So they re on our skin, on the top of our head, our scalp, literally they re
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crossing my eyeball as I sit here and look at you and talk to you.
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But they re so small, I can t see them.
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So thankfully, they re not affecting my vision in any way.
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So these are like little bugs.
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Little bugs.
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How many?
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30 trillion?
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38 trillion.
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Bugs.
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38 trillion.
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We call them gut bugs, but really we re talking about bacteria.
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Bacteria.
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That is around, that s on the outside of our body and our inside of our body.
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Well, so here s an interesting thing about that.
0
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It turns out that what s inside of our body, we re talking about our intestine, is actually outside of our body.
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Yeah, bizarre.
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I know.
0
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Our intestines are on the outside of our body.
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Okay, so here s the thing.
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Your intestines are a continuous tube.
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It starts at your mouth.
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Now you, you re a tall guy, much like me.
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Okay.
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But the average person in the United States, somewhere between 20 and 28 feet.
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Okay.
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Is this continuous tube of intestines?
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28 feet.
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Yeah.
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The tube is never broken.
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All right.
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There is no point where things that enter into the tube, leave the tube and go into the body unless they re absorbed by the body.
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Interesting.
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So basically what that means is because it s a continuous tube,
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It starts at your mouth, which is outside of your body.
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Things are outside of your body.
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You swallow them down.
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You may think of them as being inside your body, but actually they re within this tube and they never actually enter into your body.
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So all the way through, this is actually an external facing surface.
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You re interacting with the outside world, which is one of the key points to understand.
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You re interacting with the outside world within your intestines.
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So this is the reason why, by the way, Lewis, that 60 to 70% of our immune system lives in the wall of your intestine.
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This is the home of your intestines.
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Like people may think of the bone marrow as being, hey, that s where immune cells live.
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No, no.
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They re born there, they may be born in the bone marrow, but then they move to other places, much like you were born in Ohio and I was born in New York and now you re here and I m in Charleston.
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The immune cells move and most of them take up residence within the lining of the intestines.
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And the reason why they re there is because this is actually where we re interacting with the outside world.
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And so we need our defense systems in place in that location.
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All right, so anyway, so here we are, we got 38 trillion microbes.
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Now this is, by the way, more than we have human cells.
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So we are, yeah, we are less than 50% human.
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How many human cells do we have?
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About 30 trillion.
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30 trillion human cells, 38 trillion.
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Well, non-human cells?
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Non-human cells.
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Really?
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Yeah.
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So they re clearly outnumbering us.
0
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There is no doubt.
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You are definitely less than 50% human.
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And actually, if we took your 30 trillion cells, if we took your 30 trillion cells and we moved the red blood cells and the platelets, which by the way, aren t like the classic cells.
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Like when we think of cells, I think we all have a picture in our mind of like the
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cell with the organelles, the mitochondria, all these things, right?
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So if you took just those cells, you are actually about 90% microbial and only 10% human.
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And so a microbe is not a human element.
0
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No, it s not.
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And it s also not a part of our body.
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They take up residence after birth.
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That s crazy.
0
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Yeah.
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So the water breaks.
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The water breaks.
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Mom goes into labor.
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And for the first time, the baby is exposed to the outside world.
0
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And with that come a flush of these microbes.
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And actually passing through the birth canal is a gift from nature.
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Because as a child passes through the birth control canal for the first time, it s being exposed to this world, this microbial world that dominates.
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And they ve been around, Lewis.
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So like humans, we ve been around for about three, three and a half million years.
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Archaea, which live inside of our microbiome, okay, they re not bacteria, they re not fungi, they re these weird things, but they produce gas, right?
0
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So when you pass gas, think of archaea.
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They, there s a archeologic site in Greenland where they found four billion year old archea, four billion years.
0
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And we think that that s the oldest life on this planet.
0
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Wow.
0
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So these, these microbes, they have been around forever.
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They ve survived everything that exists.
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No matter what happens in this world, no matter what happens, there will be microbes that will continue to exist.
0
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And they re an important part of us as humans, which is really the key point, because we can t be our best selves without our microbes there to support us.
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Come on, really?
0
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So wait, so how much of our bodies is actually human versus non-human?
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And what s the percentage?
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So human versus non-human, clearly less than 50% human.
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Wow.
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Okay, clearly less than 50%.
0
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Some would argue 10% human.
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And then if we were to talk about your genetic code, you are less than 1% human.
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Come on.
0
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Yeah.
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So what are we?
0
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We re a mishmash, we re superorganisms.
0
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We re superorganisms.
0
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Wow.
0
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That are a mishmash of these microbes and we think of ourselves in isolation like, hey, we re these big strong humans, but actually the big strong humans would be quickly broken down and weak humans if they didn t have these microbes to back them up.
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They back us up.
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If we didn t have these alien organisms crawling over our body, we would not exist is what you re saying.
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Well, I mean, we think of them as alien, but they re more native than we are.
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They ve been around for 4 billion years.
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Interesting.
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So yeah.
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And so now with the gut-brain connection.
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So the gut, we rely on these microbes.
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This is where they live.
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They are most concentrated within our colon.
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That s their number one location.
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Yes, they re on our skin and our mouth and a woman s vagina, all these places.
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but they re most concentrated in the colon, and they re involved in these core, essential parts of human physiology.
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Digestion of our food, access to nutrients, shaping our immune system, which is inflammation.
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Our metabolism, on multiple different levels, these microbes are key players in our metabolism.
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Our hormones, so like for men, androgenic hormones that make us feel masculine, they play a role in that.
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Yes, there are connections between microbes
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Erectile dysfunction.
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Wow.
1
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Yeah.
1
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Really?
1
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Absolutely.
1
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Okay.
1
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This is how we get guys to listen to this show.
1
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Like, okay, wait, how do I have better erections?
1
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All right, now what do I do?
1
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But for women too, it s connected to estrogen and estrogen metabolism and multiple different conditions including endometriosis, polycystic ovary syndrome, et cetera.
1
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And then the last part is our brain, which is what you started this question with.
1
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Our gut-brain connection.
1
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Our gut-brain connection.
1
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And we can unpack this to describe the multiple ways that those microbes are communicating to our brain, but the bottom line
1
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is that your brain clearly has a best friend and its best friend is your gut.
1
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They re talking to each other like teenage girls all day long.
1
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They re just on the phone nonstop or texting all day long and the brain is taking signals from your gut and adapting to them, but it goes both ways because the brain is sending signals back to the gut, which can affect the way that we digest our food.
1
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
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So can you have a healthy brain if you have an unhealthy gut?
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I think that to have the healthiest brain possible, it is essential to have a healthy gut.
1
SPEAKER_00
Really?
1
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Yeah.
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I think that we need to be quite intentional about the way that we go about these things.
1
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Because we can kind of just stumble into our health, or we can wake up and see that here we are and we have 38 trillion microbes.
1
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They re constantly evolving and changing.
1
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The food that you eat today will change your microbiome by tomorrow.
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And with those choices, you are shaping the microbiome, and that microbiome will affect health throughout your entire body, including your brain, including your ability to function, including your ability to maintain memories, including your ability to focus and get stuff done, and your long-term cognitive health, which includes things like Alzheimer s and things of this variety.
1
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Wow.
1
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So if someone is feeling like they have symptoms of some type of mental health
1
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challenge.
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They re feeling maybe they have ADHD or they have depression or depressed thoughts or they have anxiety or stress or overwhelm.
1
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what are three things they could do to start recognizing how to fix them?
1
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Well, I ll give you three things and they all connect back to the microbiome.
1
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Um, I would start with food.
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The food is, the food is our most powerful lever that we can pull in terms of shaping and changing the microbiome.
1
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And there are simple choices that anyone can make.
1
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Um, and this doesn t have to fall under a dietary pattern or a label.
1
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It s just changing the way you eat.
1
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What would be, for that first one, what would be the top five foods that everyone should eat daily to optimize their gut microbiome?
1
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Okay, I can give you a top five, but can I start with this essential rule?
1
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Yes.
1
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Which is diversity of plants.
1
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All right, so eating as much variety of different plants in our diet.
1
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We have to be intentional about this if this is what we want.
1
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Because the problem is the food system is not going to do that for us.
1
SPEAKER_00
You go into the supermarket, they ve distilled it down to 75% of the calories in our supermarket is three foods.
1
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What are those three foods?
1
SPEAKER_00
Wheat, corn, and soy.
1
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
1
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Yes.
1
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That is 75% of the calories in the supermarket.
1
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Now granted, most of those are ultra processed, right?
1
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So I m here to advocate for real food.
1
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Fruits, vegetables, whole grains, seeds, nuts and legumes, that s at least five.
1
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We could add mushrooms.
1
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Those are broad categories.
1
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And we can get more specific if we want to, but to me it s about getting that variety.
1
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And this is not just an idea or a concept, this is actually scientifically proven.
1
SPEAKER_00
So in a study called the American Gut Project, which by the way was international, but it was run out of UC San Diego, what they found is that
1
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At the end of the day when they did their analysis above everything else there was this one rule
1
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the diversity of plants in your diet was the number one factor in predicting who had the healthiest gut.
1
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And the number is 30.
1
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30 per week.
1
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30 different plants per week.
1
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Now all fruits, vegetables, whole grains, seeds, nuts, and legumes.
1
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Include those 30.
1
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They count.
1
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All of them, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
So you want to have 30 different
1
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ingredients every week of plants.
1
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At least.
1
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Wow.
1
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At least.
1
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But you know what?
1
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I don t even know if I ve tried 30 different plants in my life.
1
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Lewis, you and I need to spend more time together.
1
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Exactly, right?
1
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It s like 30.
1
SPEAKER_01
Wow, that s incredible.
1
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You start to take a smoothie.
1
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It could be Monday morning.
1
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Take a smoothie, bananas, blueberries, greens of your choice, whatever ones you like.
1
SPEAKER_00
Chia seeds, hemp seeds.
1
SPEAKER_00
Chia seeds, hemp seeds, flax seeds.
1
SPEAKER_00
We re already up to six.
1
SPEAKER_00
You want to add in some raspberries or some other kinds of berries.
1
SPEAKER_00
We can easily get this up to 10.
1
SPEAKER_00
You re making pasta sauce.
1
SPEAKER_00
Why would you just do pasta sauce?
1
SPEAKER_00
Why not throw some plants in there?
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, there you go.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Onions, garlic, basil, oregano.
1
SPEAKER_00
Those count too.
1
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Spices count.
1
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Why is the, you know, if someone s like, listen, I just like my five to 10 plants a week.
1
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I eat healthy plants.
1
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I eat mostly plants.
1
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I eat non-processed foods.
1
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Is that good enough?
1
SPEAKER_01
Or is it really more about the
1
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adding more and more of the diversity as possible as opposed to just broccoli and spinach by itself.
1
SPEAKER_00
The average person in the United States, 10% of their calories comes from actual plants.
1
SPEAKER_00
The number one plant is the potato.
1
SPEAKER_00
We re not talking about optimal nutrition here.
1
SPEAKER_00
There s a reason why people in the United States are suffering through the health-related issues that they currently have.
1
SPEAKER_00
We need to make changes.
1
SPEAKER_00
If we simply added more fiber to our diet, we would radically transform the health of this country.
1
SPEAKER_00
Really?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
And that person who s not necessarily eating a lot of variety, but is eating a lot of plants, number one, I give them a standing ovation.
1
SPEAKER_00
Their diet s a great starting point.
1
SPEAKER_00
They re way better off than the average American is right now, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
We all, though, should be looking to optimize.
1
SPEAKER_00
We all have opportunities to do better.
1
SPEAKER_00
So if you take that diet and you add more variety to it, they will reap the rewards of that.
1
SPEAKER_00
And the reason why is because every single one of these plants has unique properties that are, number one, going to affect our microbiome.
1
SPEAKER_00
So these microbes, they re kind of like us in many ways, Lewis.
1
SPEAKER_00
They have personalities.
1
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Some of them are not nice.
1
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They have cliques.
1
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They have certain ones that they tend to hang out with and they work together.
1
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They also have taste buds.
1
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They have different food preferences.
1
SPEAKER_00
Not every microbe, believe it or not, likes kale.
1
Right.
1
SPEAKER_01
But you can trade it to like kale, or you can get rid of the ones that don t like kale, I guess.
1
SPEAKER_00
You can trade it to like kale, but there s going to be a lot of microbes that are going to be hungry if the only thing that you eat is kale.
1
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right?
1
SPEAKER_00
So every single plant is feeding certain families of microbes.
1
SPEAKER_01
Interesting, so the more diverse and expansive that you have with your plant diversity, the less hungry you ll be as well, is what I m hearing you say.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, 100%.
1
SPEAKER_01
So if I just eat broccoli and spinach and kale a few times a week versus I might never feel like I m full.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s like I still want more, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
So I need some different carbs or some snacks or things to feel more full.
1
SPEAKER_01
If I m hearing you say it right, if you have more diversity of plants more frequently, you re gonna feel more satiated, you re gonna get the fiber that your body needs to be less hungry as well.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so satiation, like feeling full, is an important concept these days, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
We have all seen the rollout of Ozempic and these other GLP-1 type agonists.
1
SPEAKER_00
What is this GLP-1 that we re talking about here?
1
SPEAKER_00
This is a hormone.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s a gut hormone already produced by your body and makes you feel full.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now, I m not sitting here and going to try to pretend that what you eat is going to have the same effect on your body that a drug does.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s not what I m trying to do here, but I want people to understand that here we exist.
1
SPEAKER_00
We re 95% of Americans, 95% are deficient in fiber.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is our most prevalent nutritional deficiency.
1
SPEAKER_00
And fiber is what actually leads to the release of GLP-1.
1
SPEAKER_00
GLP-1 is what exactly?
1
SPEAKER_00
GLP-1 is glucan-like peptide 1, which is a gut hormone, which is what Ozempic is.
1
SPEAKER_00
Ozempic is GLP-1.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it has these different effects on our body, including helping us to control our blood sugar and making us feel full.
1
SPEAKER_01
Interesting.
1
SPEAKER_00
Which is the reason why Ozempic is used for diabetes and for weight loss.
1
SPEAKER_01
When someone takes an external drug like Ozempic to create a chemical, I guess, formulation inside of the body, the brain, the gut, the nervous system, things like that, to either turn on or turn off certain things.
1
SPEAKER_01
How effective is that versus, you know, having 30 plants a week and just eating the foods that will make you feel, that will turn on these hormones that you re talking about that the drug would do and make you feel more satiated than a fool by itself?
1
SPEAKER_00
So, um, first of all, we have to fully acknowledge that these drugs are highly effective.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like there is no doubt that they work.
1
SPEAKER_00
They re getting results.
2
SPEAKER_00
But what are the long-term effects of these?
2
SPEAKER_01
We have no clue.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
We have no clue.
2
SPEAKER_01
We don t have the data yet to say what the long-term results of these are.
2
SPEAKER_01
What we do know with complete clarity is that if you stop using the drug, by the way, they re very expensive.
2
SPEAKER_01
They re very expensive.
2
SPEAKER_01
Thousands of dollars per month.
2
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right?
2
SPEAKER_01
And are we ready to commit to doing this for the rest of our lives?
2
SPEAKER_01
Because when you come off of the drug, you go right back to where you were.
2
SPEAKER_00
Really?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes, you rebound immediately.
2
SPEAKER_01
So flip side though, I think it s important at the same time as we re having this conversation about Ozempic and these types of weight loss drugs.
2
SPEAKER_01
Again, I m not here to vilify them.
2
SPEAKER_01
But when we re doing that, instead of changing the way that we eat.
2
SPEAKER_01
The behaviors.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
The problem that exists with this is like, yes, we can measure weight loss.
2
SPEAKER_01
And when people lose weight, there are different things that can certainly improve and they become more healthy.
2
SPEAKER_01
But is the only thing that matters for human health our weight?
2
SPEAKER_01
That is not the case.
2
SPEAKER_01
There is so much more to us as humans and our determinants of our health beyond just whether or not we re obese, skinny, or what our body habitus is.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so we need to look at that bigger picture.
2
SPEAKER_01
The bigger picture is that when we optimize our diet,
2
SPEAKER_01
We have opportunities to improve ourselves metabolically, which includes improving our weight, which includes improving our blood sugar control, but we also have opportunities to prevent other diseases far beyond what Ozempic is capable of preventing.
2
SPEAKER_00
It also sounds like, as I m hearing you talk about this, it sounds like if someone s taking something like Ozempic to lose weight,
2
SPEAKER_00
If that s their main goal, like I want to lose weight, I m going to take this drug, it s going to help me be less hungry.
2
SPEAKER_00
But if someone s losing weight, but they re just still eating processed foods, and they re not having plants, and they re just eating less junk, but they re still eating junk, how will that affect the brain and the gut connection to feeling good beyond just losing the weight?
2
SPEAKER_01
So the data are clear.
2
SPEAKER_01
that when we consume an ultra-processed diet, which in the United States today, 60% of calories are ultra-processed foods, so more than half.
2
SPEAKER_01
These are foods, by the way, that did not exist 100 years ago.
2
SPEAKER_01
So what we re describing was not possible for our great-grandparents.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s no way they could have ate the diet that we currently eat, because these foods did not exist.
2
SPEAKER_01
And our kids, 70% of calories in our kids come from ultra-processed foods.
2
SPEAKER_01
And there s no doubt that they cause a shift in the microbiome.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s a shift towards what we call dysbiosis.
2
SPEAKER_01
So it s the opposite of what we see when we eat a diverse diet.
2
SPEAKER_01
Diverse diet leads to a diverse microbiome, and that is a healthy microbiome.
2
SPEAKER_01
When we shift towards ultra-processed foods, we re actually contracting the microbiome.
2
SPEAKER_01
We re empowering the ones that love sugar.
2
SPEAKER_01
We re empowering the ones that create inflammation.
2
SPEAKER_00
And they re signaling the direction they want to go in.
2
SPEAKER_00
They want you to go in.
2
SPEAKER_00
Hey, you want more of this sugary drink.
2
SPEAKER_00
You want more candy.
2
SPEAKER_00
You want more chips.
2
SPEAKER_00
They re telling your brain, you need this.
2
SPEAKER_01
There are interesting studies to suggest that our taste buds and our cravings are driven
2
SPEAKER_01
by our microbiome.
2
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s almost like we don t have control sometimes.
2
SPEAKER_00
Or maybe it s felt in the past, like, I want this so bad.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes, I can stop myself, but my desires and cravings are just like, I m going to go to the store and buy candy right now.
2
SPEAKER_00
And is that the microbiome kind of signaling and constantly telling us, get this, go buy this.
2
SPEAKER_00
You need this.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think that they play a role in that.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think that they play a role in that whole impulse.
2
SPEAKER_01
Um, and yes, that certainly exists, but also the beautiful and exciting thing is our taste buds can change, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Those impulses can change and you can get yourself to a place where what you crave is actually something that s good for your body and nourishes your body.
2
SPEAKER_00
How long would you say it takes to change your taste buds from not craving sugar and processed foods into craving a diverse plant-based healthy options?
2
SPEAKER_01
I think you really start to see the benefits of four weeks.
2
SPEAKER_01
Four weeks of doing it consistently.
2
SPEAKER_01
Of doing it consistently, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
But by the way, I don t recommend that people try to flip a switch.
2
SPEAKER_01
Now, there are some people that it works for, but to me, what I want is sustainable.
2
SPEAKER_01
Something that you can actually stick with.
2
SPEAKER_01
Not extremes.
2
SPEAKER_01
Not extreme.
2
SPEAKER_01
We don t want yo-yo.
2
SPEAKER_01
We don t want to be swinging all over the place.
2
SPEAKER_01
We want consistency, sustainability, and we want it to taste good.
2
SPEAKER_01
So, start with the stuff that you enjoy, introduce simple, sustainable choices, and build from there, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
And as we start to build, we start to build momentum, and our microbiome is given a chance to change with us.
2
SPEAKER_01
So, I say four weeks is what it takes to really make this huge change, but really I would rather that you do it over the course of six months, a year, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Because then by consistently doing this, you are actually going to completely reshape your microbiome.
2
SPEAKER_01
Getting back to the question about ultra-processed foods and brain health, what you re going to create with these ultra-processed foods is an inflammatory microbiome.
2
SPEAKER_01
Inflammation is an essential feature that exists in many different cognitive disorders and mood disorders, including depression, including anxiety.
2
SPEAKER_00
So from my perspective, so start- Inflammation influences anxiety and depression.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, 100%.
2
SPEAKER_00
How much would you say, sorry to cut you off there, but how many, what s the percentage of the human population would you say has an inflamed gut and brain?
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh gosh.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s hard to put an exact number on that.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I think what we see if we were to zoom out,
2
SPEAKER_01
Even in America then, maybe.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, in America.
2
SPEAKER_01
If we just focus on what s happening here in the States, if you zoom out for a moment, think of all of the digestive disorders that exist.
2
SPEAKER_01
Obesity, digestive disorders.
2
SPEAKER_01
Metabolic issues, immune issues, meaning autoimmune type issues that are hugely on the rise.
2
SPEAKER_01
Hormonal issues, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
And you go down the line and you think of these things, and I haven t even gotten to the brain yet.
2
SPEAKER_01
Heart issues.
2
SPEAKER_01
And basically what I m saying is the gut microbiome is a player in all of these different conditions.
2
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_01
So if the gut microbiome is a player in these conditions and you have these conditions present, you ve already proven.
2
SPEAKER_01
You ve already proven what the state of the microbiome is.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then the question is, how is it affecting your brain?
2
SPEAKER_01
And could you have better energy, better focus, better ability to do tedious hard things during the day?
2
SPEAKER_01
And the answer would be yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
And the way that that starts is by changing your diet.
2
SPEAKER_00
So the number one thing you said is food.
2
SPEAKER_00
We covered some of these foods.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes, and 30 different plants.
2
SPEAKER_00
And 30 different plants.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
What are the next two things?
2
SPEAKER_01
We talked about the top three things.
2
SPEAKER_01
So on food, real quick before we move on, there s a study called the SMILES trial.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
where they took a plant-predominant, it was not vegan, it was a plant-predominant Mediterranean diet.
2
SPEAKER_01
So it has some fish and shellfish, things like that.
2
100%.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it was as effective as medication for the treatment of major depression.
2
SPEAKER_00
Really?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
just putting them on that nutritional food plan.
2
SPEAKER_00
For some reason, I don t like the word diet, because I feel like it s a restriction, as opposed to an addition of healthy, good things.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s not about eating less and starving yourself.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think that s what people associate the word diet to.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s like starvation, cutting out all foods that I enjoy, and being miserable.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s what people think when they think of diet.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so I d like to try, I try to keep correcting myself to be like, what s the healthy food plan?
2
SPEAKER_00
What s the nutritional abundance plan that we re going to step into?
2
SPEAKER_01
Abundance is the right word for what we re talking about here.
2
SPEAKER_01
30 different plants or more.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m asking you to add more variety, not take away, not restrict.
2
SPEAKER_01
So it s the opposite of what we ve been told by traditional fad diets.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
So, all right.
2
SPEAKER_01
Number two.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
So we want to improve our mood.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
Exercise.
2
SPEAKER_01
So, exercise clearly improves our mood, can be used as something to help in the treatment of major depression.
2
SPEAKER_01
And the question is, how is it doing that?
2
SPEAKER_01
And one of the answers to that question is actually through the way that exercise shapes our microbiome.
2
SPEAKER_01
How do they shape our microbiome?
2
SPEAKER_01
It depends on what exercise you re doing.
2
SPEAKER_01
So what kind of exercise do you like?
2
SPEAKER_01
I m curious.
2
SPEAKER_00
I like to lift really heavy.
2
SPEAKER_00
Me too.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I like to run about two to three miles.
2
SPEAKER_00
I ran four miles last night, but I usually run two and a half to three at about a seven mile hour pace.
2
SPEAKER_00
Cool.
2
SPEAKER_00
So not too intense, not like too slow, but kind of like a steady pace.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Do you switch up your exercise every once in a while to see if you can get better gains?
2
SPEAKER_00
I daily do different sets and different kind of like body parts, I guess, but I m constantly following a program to either intensify or add reps or add weight.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so I m getting more gains.
2
SPEAKER_00
In fact, I just put up 220, I haven t done 225 in years, but I started like six months ago, maybe four months ago, being like, how many can I do?
2
SPEAKER_00
And I did three.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s like, okay, let me see what I can do over the next few months.
2
SPEAKER_00
And a couple weeks ago, I did 11 and a half reps at 225.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I feel like I m back
3
SPEAKER_01
almost college when I did 15, when I was training football.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I feel like I can do more than that now that I have more wisdom and knowledge and nutritional and training and recovery information.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s amazing to be in your 40s and thriving.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I m actually lifting my heaviest weight in my 40s as well.
3
SPEAKER_00
Let s go.
3
SPEAKER_00
Let s go.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, dude, I m pumped.
3
SPEAKER_00
Let s go get the cameras and let s go.
3
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I like to play pickleball.
3
SPEAKER_01
I want to make sure I m doing like some athletic movements also, not just like I m on a bar, I m jogging on a treadmill, but it s like, OK, I need to do some pickleball.
3
SPEAKER_01
I like to do ping pong.
3
SPEAKER_01
I like to do different activities.
3
SPEAKER_01
I like to dance salsa.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I m also making sure that I m doing lateral movements, not just in the gym, because I know how important that is for mobility, stretching, all those different things.
3
SPEAKER_01
Ice tub sauna, like I m incorporating as many diverse activities as possible.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, this is the point, and I don t know that you were intentionally trying to set me up there because we haven t talked about this before, but actually diversity of exercise is actually a relevant idea.
3
SPEAKER_00
Really?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
So much of what we talk about, different types of foods have a different effect on our microbiome.
3
SPEAKER_00
Different exercises have a different effect on our microbiome.
3
SPEAKER_00
They did this study where they looked at marathon runners.
3
SPEAKER_00
And they identified that there was this one bacteria called Vellanella that was disproportionately represented within these marathon runners.
3
SPEAKER_00
So the scientists, this was by the way done, I believe at Harvard and Boston.
3
SPEAKER_00
The scientists asked the question, what s the deal with this Vellanella?
3
SPEAKER_00
Like why, why would the runners have more this specific thing?
3
SPEAKER_00
And the answer was quite interesting.
3
SPEAKER_00
The Vellanella was breaking down lactic acid.
3
SPEAKER_00
When we run endurance exercise, lactic acid accumulates in our muscles.
3
SPEAKER_00
That creates muscle fatigue.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you want to be a better runner and have greater endurance, you would break down lactic acid.
3
SPEAKER_00
the microbes are helping.
3
SPEAKER_00
They have another study done by rugby players in Ireland, and they looked at their microbiome, these rugby players, and they discovered that there was a shift within their microbiome towards actually more anti-inflammatory bacteria that interact with fiber.
3
SPEAKER_00
to produce what are called short-chain fatty acids, which are the most anti-inflammatory molecules out there.
3
SPEAKER_00
And these short-chain fatty acids, which people may have heard of them, butyrate, acetate, propionate, these short-chain fatty acids have healing effects right there in your gut.
3
SPEAKER_00
They help to shape the microbiome.
3
SPEAKER_00
They affect the immune system.
3
SPEAKER_00
They affect our metabolism.
3
SPEAKER_00
And they enter the bloodstream, and they travel all the way to the brain, and they affect the brain, including the blood-brain barrier.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s interesting, because playing football growing up in high school and college, I always felt like I healed very quickly.
3
SPEAKER_01
I felt like when I d get a scrape or a cut or I d get a bruise, it wouldn t really show.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I don t know if that was because I was training in a certain way that was explosive in power and speed that my microbiome, I guess, were helping me recover faster.
3
SPEAKER_01
I have no idea.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like a rugby player.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, it s interesting because you think about all the great athletes, for example, in the NFL, and you see these guys do, you know, like Adrian Peterson comes to mind, where some of the recoveries that he had during his career- That s crazy.
3
SPEAKER_00
Crazy.
3
SPEAKER_00
And they defy, like, the rules of recovery.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it makes you wonder if there s something- Is that genetics?
3
SPEAKER_01
Is that microbiome?
3
SPEAKER_01
Is that, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Are there other factors in play here?
3
SPEAKER_00
But what s interesting is because you have this shift in the microbiome towards these anti-inflammatory molecules.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, I just mentioned that depression has an inflammatory component to it, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
So here we are and we discover that exercise is actually good for helping our mood.
3
SPEAKER_00
And what I m saying is what s happening under the hood, if you lift up the hood and take a look, is there s this shift in the microbiome and now you don t even have to change your diet.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I do want you to eat more plants, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
But exercise alone helps you improve your anxiety, your stress, or depression.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
And that shift that s happening in the microbiome is actually helping you to get more from your fiber.
3
SPEAKER_00
So you don t change your diet.
3
SPEAKER_00
You eat the same fiber.
3
SPEAKER_00
Now you get more from it.
3
SPEAKER_00
But what if you also changed your diet at the same time that you were implementing this exercise?
3
SPEAKER_00
You did one and two, food and exercise.
3
SPEAKER_00
This is why they synergize so well.
3
SPEAKER_01
So would you say your gut microbiome influenced your mood more than anything else?
3
SPEAKER_00
I think that the answer is yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
And the reason why I say that is they have these bizarre studies that they ve done where they take people and they inject into them something called lipopolysaccharide.
3
SPEAKER_00
What is that?
3
SPEAKER_00
Lipopolysaccharide is produced by bacteria that live inside of us like E. coli.
3
SPEAKER_00
So, we ve all heard of E. coli, okay?
3
SPEAKER_00
So, this is like... They inject a disease inside of us.
3
SPEAKER_00
So, they re injecting this thing that you find in E. coli into a person s bloodstream, okay?
3
SPEAKER_00
And then they track them over the next couple of hours.
3
SPEAKER_00
We re talking about humans, we re not talking about mice right now.
3
SPEAKER_00
And they see what happens and here s what they find.
3
SPEAKER_00
Number one, because this bacteria has entered into the bloodstream, they get increased levels of inflammation in the body.
3
SPEAKER_00
Number two, their mood and their motivation to work dips.
3
SPEAKER_00
Number three, they socially withdraw.
3
SPEAKER_00
All right, so what s going on here?
3
SPEAKER_00
Basically, what I ve just told you is that when they inject this E. coli type stuff, which I, by the way, want to unpack that in a quick moment.
3
SPEAKER_00
When they inject this E. coli based stuff called lipopolysaccharide,
3
SPEAKER_00
It basically activates inflammation, which affects their mood, and it also makes them socially withdrawn.
3
SPEAKER_00
And they think that what s happening is that the body is starting to shut down to preserve energy because it needs to fight the infection.
3
SPEAKER_00
So that s number one.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s going to slow itself down.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s not going to have the energy to talk to people and be motivated.
3
SPEAKER_00
A hundred percent.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then they socially withdraw.
3
SPEAKER_00
Why would they socially withdraw?
3
SPEAKER_00
We re social creatures.
3
SPEAKER_00
We come from living in tribes of people, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
And you want to protect one another.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you re sick, you don t want to pass that on to someone else.
3
SPEAKER_00
So when you feel sick, there s this natural inclination to socially withdraw.
3
SPEAKER_00
To get away.
3
SPEAKER_01
Interesting.
3
SPEAKER_00
To protect the others.
3
SPEAKER_01
Now is this injection through this study, is that
3
SPEAKER_01
causation or is it I guess correlation I guess what is it the difference between like did it cause them the microbiome to be depressed or is it
3
SPEAKER_01
part of the correlation of it.
3
SPEAKER_01
It couldn t be something else that is causing that.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay, so we have these studies where there s correlation.
3
SPEAKER_00
You have a group of people with major depression, and you study their microbiome, and you discover that their microbiome is damaged.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay, they have what we call dysbiosis, or a weaky gut, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
Now, what s causing what?
3
SPEAKER_00
That s the question, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
Because there s a correlation, but you can t prove that the microbiome caused the depression, or similarly, you can t prove that the depression caused the microbiome change.
3
SPEAKER_00
So then it raises the question, how do we then prove this?
3
SPEAKER_00
And there s a couple of ways that you prove this through interventions.
3
SPEAKER_00
And when you take this lipopolysaccharide, basically what you re recreating is what happens when a person has a damaged gut.
3
SPEAKER_00
Because when you have a damaged gut,
3
SPEAKER_00
Those microbes, they live inside the tube of the intestine, and as we discussed at the very beginning of the show, that tube is outside of our body.
3
SPEAKER_00
We have a single layer of cells called the gut epithelium that basically protect us, because on the other side of the epithelial layer is 60 to 70% of our immune cells.
3
SPEAKER_00
The immune system is there to protect us on the other side, and the single layer of cells, it s like the wall of our castle.
3
SPEAKER_00
And when our gut breaks down, when our microbes are damaged, when we don t have enough anti-inflammatory short chain fatty acids, you start to see this gut barrier breakdown.
3
SPEAKER_00
We get what people may call leaky gut and what leaks.
3
SPEAKER_00
is the lipopolysaccharide.
3
SPEAKER_00
This lipopolysaccharide that they were injecting in this study, basically what they were recreating, they were not recreating an infection.
3
SPEAKER_00
They were recreating chronic inflammation.
3
SPEAKER_01
Interesting.
3
SPEAKER_00
That comes from a damaged gut.
3
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
3
SPEAKER_01
So when you have inflammation because your gut is out of whack or is not healthy, it s going to cause you in some ways to feel lower energy, anxiety, depression, or some type of
3
SPEAKER_01
I guess symptom that doesn t cause you to be your best self is what I m saying.
3
SPEAKER_00
100%.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I think that these can exist on an entire spectrum.
3
SPEAKER_00
This could be a bad day.
3
SPEAKER_00
But it could also be something that is more chronic and clinical, such as major depression.
3
SPEAKER_00
And for me personally, this is where my personal journey started, was that I was in a bad place with my own health.
3
SPEAKER_00
And one of the issues that I had was I was depressed.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I just wanted to be by myself.
3
SPEAKER_00
And this was when you were in medical school, before or after?
3
SPEAKER_00
So I was in my gastroenterology training.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was in the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you looked at me on paper, you thought that everything was perfect.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yet there I was laying under a blanket in a dark room watching reality television.
3
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like all of us do when we re depressed.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s like, I ve been there.
3
SPEAKER_01
I ve been there.
4
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
4
SPEAKER_01
Below deck, baby.
4
SPEAKER_01
Below deck.
4
SPEAKER_01
That was your drug of choice.
4
SPEAKER_01
So this was when?
4
SPEAKER_01
How many years ago was this?
4
SPEAKER_01
This was 12 years ago.
4
SPEAKER_01
12 years ago.
4
SPEAKER_01
So you re in medical school.
4
SPEAKER_00
I was in, no, so I graduated medical school in 2006.
4
SPEAKER_00
So we re talking about roughly 2012 now.
4
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
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SPEAKER_00
So I was a board certified internal medicine doctor.
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SPEAKER_00
I d finished my internal medicine training.
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SPEAKER_00
I was the chief resident in Northwestern.
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SPEAKER_00
And then I moved on to the University of North Carolina.
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SPEAKER_00
I was on a grant from the NIH.
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SPEAKER_00
And I was studying both at the School of Public Health, which is like one of the top three schools of public health in the country.
4
SPEAKER_00
I was doing that and working during the day as a gastrologist in the hospital.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I was miserable.
4
SPEAKER_00
And my life was in a bad place.
4
SPEAKER_00
I also had high blood pressure, high cholesterol.
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SPEAKER_00
From a mood perspective, tons of anxiety.
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SPEAKER_00
high levels of depression.
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SPEAKER_00
Again, like I just wanted to lay in a dark room by myself under a blanket and be left alone.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s all I wanted to do.
4
SPEAKER_01
But you had made it.
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SPEAKER_01
You were at the top of your field.
4
SPEAKER_01
You were an expert.
4
SPEAKER_01
You were, you know, leading a hospital and the department.
4
SPEAKER_01
So why do you think you were sick even though you were a doctor?
4
SPEAKER_00
All I know is this, that I did not want my own medicine in that moment.
4
SPEAKER_00
The things you were prescribing to others.
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SPEAKER_00
The things that I was prescribing to others and that I had been trained by great doctors to do, I didn t want that in that moment.
4
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so the table said turns, now I m the patient.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I needed something to help me.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I tried to exercise my way out of this.
4
SPEAKER_00
So I m going to work out harder.
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SPEAKER_00
I m a type A. Right.
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SPEAKER_00
So I go hard.
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SPEAKER_01
Sass.
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SPEAKER_01
Oh.
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SPEAKER_01
Hardcore.
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SPEAKER_00
45 minutes of weight training a day.
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SPEAKER_00
Hit training.
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SPEAKER_01
Cardio.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Jump on the treadmill for either a 5 or a 10K.
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SPEAKER_00
Wow.
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SPEAKER_00
Or jump in the pool, because I was in North Carolina, and do 100 laps.
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SPEAKER_01
Dang, that s intense.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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SPEAKER_01
It s triathlon training.
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SPEAKER_00
I grew stronger or faster or whatever athletic measure you want, but I still felt unwell.
4
SPEAKER_00
Really?
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SPEAKER_00
Maybe you felt a little bit better, but ... I felt a little bit better, but I really felt unwell.
4
SPEAKER_00
And you had a big gut.
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SPEAKER_00
I had a big gut.
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SPEAKER_00
Really?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
And I needed something to change.
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SPEAKER_00
And the weird and bizarre thing about it is that I grew up ... I come from a humble place in upstate New York, and I was raised on junk food.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
And this is the way I ate for 75% of my life.
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SPEAKER_00
And the food that was glorified in our house, how could that possibly be the cause of my problems?
4
SPEAKER_01
The food that brought us love and connection and intimacy and fun and play.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Get home from school, play some hoops or Mario Kart, fire up the grill, couple dogs, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
Like every day.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, summer barbecues.
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SPEAKER_00
Let s go.
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SPEAKER_00
It was fun.
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SPEAKER_00
And I loved it.
4
SPEAKER_00
But it caught up to me.
4
SPEAKER_00
Wow, I caught up to me in my early 30s.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so I needed something to change.
4
SPEAKER_00
And the and the thing that changed for me was that I eventually looked in the mirror.
4
SPEAKER_00
It was actually by meeting my wife.
4
SPEAKER_00
So, who, like, here we are, you know, more than 10 years later, we have four kids together, but in this moment, we re going on our first date.
4
SPEAKER_00
And she ate very differently than me.
4
SPEAKER_00
Really?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I had never seen anything like this.
4
SPEAKER_00
How did she eat?
4
SPEAKER_00
We were at, so we were in, you know, North Carolina.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Right?
4
SPEAKER_01
They didn t have all the diversity back then.
4
SPEAKER_00
No.
4
SPEAKER_00
They didn t have foods.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, and you look at the menu, and my wife said to the waiter, she pulled him aside, and she goes,
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SPEAKER_00
Can you get me a plate?
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SPEAKER_00
And on that plate put collards and black eyed peas and okra and some mashed potatoes.
4
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
4
SPEAKER_00
All right.
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SPEAKER_00
And so she had them arrange a plant plate.
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SPEAKER_00
And I was like,
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SPEAKER_00
Who are you?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
What is going on?
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SPEAKER_00
I get some steak or chicken or yeah, I got my usual pork chop.
4
SPEAKER_00
So look, I m not saying that s wrong.
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SPEAKER_00
What I m saying is that my diet needed an overhaul, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
There needed to be changes.
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SPEAKER_00
And, um, seeing that she opened my mind cause she looked amazing, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
She looked amazing.
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SPEAKER_00
She seemed to be healthy, have everything going for her and it seemed to be effortless.
4
SPEAKER_00
And here I am grinding out an hour and a half of exercise every day.
4
SPEAKER_01
With a gut still.
4
SPEAKER_01
With a gut still.
4
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
4
SPEAKER_00
Right?
4
SPEAKER_01
What is going on?
4
SPEAKER_00
Why don t you go on a date with you?
4
SPEAKER_00
So I have no clue.
4
SPEAKER_00
I have no clue.
4
SPEAKER_00
The sun shines on the dogs, you know.
4
SPEAKER_00
So anyway, um, and it just, but it was enough to open my mind.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so there was this one day where, uh, I was going to go to Hardy s and get my usual $5 deal where they can get you like 2,500 calories for five bucks.
4
SPEAKER_00
So bad.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, for about two seconds, you ll agree that you feel sick.
4
SPEAKER_00
Then you just want to get on some sweats and lay on the couch and make weird noises.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
So, um, so anyway, uh, instead I went home, look, I m a single guy in my thirties.
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SPEAKER_00
I am not going to cook a gourmet meal.
4
SPEAKER_00
Right.
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SPEAKER_00
Right.
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SPEAKER_00
So I pulled out a blender.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I threw a bunch of stuff in there and that worked and I made like a 40 ounce smoothie and I instantly felt like something that had been missing from my life was in that in that cup and And it made me you know, I don t know if you ve ever experienced this but when you feel really unwell and
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SPEAKER_00
I just want to feel better.
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SPEAKER_00
And so that made me feel better.
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SPEAKER_00
And when that happens, it s enough to make you say, well, I want to feel that way again.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so I came back the next day and I did it again.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that started the process for me of changing my diet.
4
SPEAKER_00
And once I started to change my diet, the weight melted off my body.
4
SPEAKER_00
My confidence, because I had extremely low self-esteem,
4
SPEAKER_01
But you were at the top of your field as a medical doctor and GI and running a hospital division and all the degrees.
4
SPEAKER_00
You can shower me with the degrees and the awards and all these things and I felt good for a day and then I went back to feeling like trash.
4
SPEAKER_01
Why do you think you felt...
4
SPEAKER_00
so insecure or low self-esteem?
4
SPEAKER_00
I think that the way that we feel about ourselves is affected by what s going on inside of us.
4
SPEAKER_00
Really?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I do.
4
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
4
SPEAKER_00
I absolutely do.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think it s more than just like there are labels that we can apply, whether or not a person has a clinical condition, major depression, generalized anxiety disorder, whatever you want it to be.
4
SPEAKER_00
But there are also aspects of who we are that are very human that maybe we don t have a label to apply to it, but we all experience it, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
And that is self-esteem and that is energy levels and things of this variety.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I was in a dark place.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so anyway, making that change completely radically transformed my health.
4
SPEAKER_00
And because I had that moment,
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SPEAKER_00
I m a medical doctor and I care a lot.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so I felt like I have no choice.
4
SPEAKER_00
I have to bring this into the clinic.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so I started bringing this into the clinic to treat my patients.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I saw radical transformations among people with irritable bowel syndrome and acid reflux and Crohn s disease and ulcerative colitis.
4
SPEAKER_00
I see these radical transformations.
4
SPEAKER_00
And you get to a point, I eventually got to a point in 2016 where I was like,
4
SPEAKER_00
This story, like people deserve to hear this and it should not be pre-required that you come to see Dr. B as your doctor in order to hear this story.
4
SPEAKER_00
You should be able to hear this no matter where you are.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that s what motivated me to get out there and start doing this.
4
SPEAKER_00
Wow, man.
4
SPEAKER_01
Do you think it s possible for us to have high self-esteem, high positive energy,
4
SPEAKER_00
without exercising and eating only processed foods?
4
SPEAKER_00
I think you ll be so, such a fraction of the person that you could be if you were to start to make those, implement those changes.
4
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, absolutely.
4
SPEAKER_01
We ve only talked about food and exercise first.
4
SPEAKER_01
What s the third thing?
4
SPEAKER_00
All right, cool.
4
SPEAKER_00
So, I wanna start by saying this.
4
SPEAKER_00
There are these 12 nerves in the brain called the cranial nerves.
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SPEAKER_00
And if you actually look, as I did in gross anatomy in medical school, at the skull, clearly we have evolved to really protect these nerves.
4
SPEAKER_00
They come from our brain.
4
SPEAKER_00
And they passed through these special sort of channels within the skull.
4
SPEAKER_00
And they basically controlled everything that really matters.
4
SPEAKER_00
So our ability to see one another, our ability to smell, to hear, to taste, to move our tongue, to talk, to swallow, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
These 12 nerves impact everything.
4
SPEAKER_00
Impact everything.
4
SPEAKER_00
But there s this one nerve among the 12 that s like, dude, what are you doing here?
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like the black swan because 11 of the 12 are just involving basically the brain and the upper neck.
4
SPEAKER_00
But there s this one nerve that breaks off, travels from the brain all the way through the chest, all the way down into the abdomen.
4
SPEAKER_00
The brain comes down.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, the nerve comes down from the brain.
4
SPEAKER_00
This one nerve, not all 12.
4
SPEAKER_00
No, no, only one out of 12.
4
SPEAKER_00
So when you think about how important these nerves are, clearly, these are our priority nerves.
4
SPEAKER_00
And here s this one nerve that has come down to connect to our gut.
4
SPEAKER_00
And this is called the vagus nerve.
4
SPEAKER_00
And the vagus nerve is absorbing information.
4
SPEAKER_00
It is sensing what is happening within our gut.
4
SPEAKER_00
with our immune system and communicating that back to
5
SPEAKER_00
our brain.
5
SPEAKER_00
And this is one of the ways I mentioned earlier in the show that the gut has multiple ways to communicate to the brain.
5
SPEAKER_00
We ve actually started to cover several of them.
5
SPEAKER_00
One of them is with short chain fatty acids.
5
SPEAKER_00
Another is through the vagus nerve.
5
SPEAKER_00
All right, so these are two of the ways that our gut communicates to our brain.
5
SPEAKER_00
The vagus nerve is fascinating because there s new technology that s coming out now that shows us that you can actually just activate the vagus nerve and change the way that a person functions.
5
SPEAKER_00
So they call it a vagal nerve stimulator.
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SPEAKER_00
It s an implanted device.
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SPEAKER_00
You need surgery in order to have this.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it sends an electrical signal through the vagus nerve.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it goes back to the brain.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it goes back to the brain.
5
SPEAKER_00
And by doing this, you can improve a person s recovery after stroke.
5
SPEAKER_00
You can reduce their exposure to debilitating diseases like epilepsy.
5
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it s FDA approved for major depression.
5
SPEAKER_01
Holy cow.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s now being studied in irritable bowel syndrome.
5
SPEAKER_00
Crohn s disease and ulcerative colitis.
5
SPEAKER_00
So now we re studying these things in digestive health conditions, not just cognitive conditions, because the vagus nerve affects both.
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SPEAKER_00
So the vagus nerve is quite fascinating.
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SPEAKER_00
We have the ability
5
SPEAKER_00
using a technique that s completely free and every single listener can apply this to their own life right now to control the vagus nerve in a number of ways and the one that I m here to advocate for is breathing.
5
SPEAKER_00
So deep breathing exercises affect the vagus nerve.
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SPEAKER_00
The way that we do this is to take four seconds in through the nose and then to release for six seconds through pursed lips.
5
SPEAKER_00
All right.
5
SPEAKER_00
So, you actually are going to be forcing air on some level because you got six seconds of a release.
5
SPEAKER_00
Slowing it down a little bit on the way out.
5
SPEAKER_00
So, this is a 10 seconds.
5
SPEAKER_01
Longer on the way out.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
So, it s not box breathing, but it s a... Not a complete box.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
5
SPEAKER_01
So, not holding at the top.
5
SPEAKER_01
breathing out longer than holding at the bottom.
5
SPEAKER_00
You re just breathing in and out longer.
5
SPEAKER_00
You know, different studies look at different variations on basically the same thing.
5
SPEAKER_00
It always seems to be something on the order of four seconds in and at least four seconds out, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
So I m talking about six seconds out just because of this one study that we have at the site.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, a little longer.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
But like if you do four seconds in, four seconds out, you re good.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s better than most of us breathing through our chest, one second in, one second out, only in the chest and not deep, intentional, slow, fully oxygenating the body, the brain, everything, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
All of that and then activating the vagus nerve.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s what we re getting at.
5
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_00
So we re talking about activating the vagus nerve.
5
SPEAKER_00
by doing this, and you can do this every day.
5
SPEAKER_00
And if you do it for literally 10 minutes, literally 10 minutes, you will notice differences as you start to do this day by day.
5
SPEAKER_01
So if you just do this for 10 minutes a day, just breathing to activate the vagus nerve, what type of improvements can you see?
5
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
5
SPEAKER_00
So we talked about the vagus nerve is this information superhighway connecting our gut to our brain.
5
SPEAKER_00
So we would expect
5
SPEAKER_00
to see improvements in both.
5
SPEAKER_00
Am I right?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
5
SPEAKER_00
So number one, I m of course interested in pooping because that s what I work for, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
So I want people to poop and I want them to have great bowel movements.
5
SPEAKER_00
And in one particular study, they took people that had irritable bowel syndrome with constipation.
5
SPEAKER_00
So they were constipated people and they had them do this exercise on a daily basis.
5
SPEAKER_00
And what they discovered is that it actually radically transformed their bowel motility, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
Their intestines were moving differently and they pooped more frequently.
5
SPEAKER_00
So they actually had relief from their constipation, not by changing their diet, not by taking a laxative, but by breathing.
5
SPEAKER_00
That was it.
5
SPEAKER_01
No exercise, no different foods, no dieting, nothing, just breathing.
5
SPEAKER_00
They pooped better.
5
SPEAKER_00
They pooped better.
5
SPEAKER_00
Now, if you exercise, you ll poop even better.
5
SPEAKER_00
If you eat fiber, you ll poop a hell of a lot better.
5
SPEAKER_00
But it s amazing to think, just ponder that the power that simply by a breathing exercise, we can alter the physiology of our intestinal system.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s incredible.
5
SPEAKER_00
But we can also affect our brain.
5
SPEAKER_00
And this is backed by studies and science and research.
5
SPEAKER_00
We can post it to the show notes.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s amazing.
5
SPEAKER_00
We can also change the way that our brain works.
5
SPEAKER_00
So by doing this type of breathing, we can improve our focus, improve our memory, improve our cognition, and improve our mood.
5
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
5
SPEAKER_00
This is incredible.
5
SPEAKER_01
I do want to talk about, so these are the top three things we can do to improve our mood.
5
SPEAKER_01
Food, exercise, breathing, along with all the things you said within each three, which I think are powerful.
5
SPEAKER_01
I know there s a lot more to it, but that s a great baseline.
5
SPEAKER_01
I do want to talk to you, since we talked about poop, how many times should we be pooping a day?
5
SPEAKER_00
Let s just get right to it.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m just curious.
5
SPEAKER_00
My wife has told me that I m far too comfortable talking about this topic.
5
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes we re at dinner parties and it s like, yeah, this is how you should be pooping and how it should look.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
She s like, you re not allowed to talk about bloody bowel movements anymore.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
5
SPEAKER_01
So wait a minute.
5
SPEAKER_01
First off.
5
SPEAKER_01
How many times should we be pooping a day and how long does it take for after you eat food for it to come out?
5
SPEAKER_01
What s the optimal timeline to know that you re a healthy, functioning human being?
5
SPEAKER_00
I m so glad that you asked this question because actually there s a fun experiment that people can do at home.
5
SPEAKER_00
So now, first of all, let me answer the question about pooping.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m of the belief that pooping should be a, it should feel full.
5
SPEAKER_00
It should be a complete evacuation.
5
SPEAKER_00
All right.
5
SPEAKER_00
It should be a complete evacuation.
5
SPEAKER_00
You should no longer feel like you have to go when you re done.
5
SPEAKER_00
It should be satisfying.
5
SPEAKER_00
And this entire process, dare I say, should be fun.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like it should feel good.
5
SPEAKER_01
It shouldn t be painful.
5
SPEAKER_00
It certainly should not be painful.
5
SPEAKER_00
It should not be effort.
5
SPEAKER_00
It should feel good, and you should be able to flip that door open and strut out in slow motion, and Michael Buble, I m feeling good, is blasting wild explosions and slow motion dubs.
5
SPEAKER_01
Fireworks and smoke, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
All right, this is the way that I think it should be for people.
5
SPEAKER_00
Unfortunately, it s not.
5
SPEAKER_00
Shocking, considering 95% of Americans are fiber deficient.
5
SPEAKER_00
Of course, that plays a role.
5
SPEAKER_00
How often should we poop?
5
SPEAKER_00
The average American poops once a day.
5
SPEAKER_00
If you were consuming an adequate diet with an adequate amount of fiber, you would be pooping more than once a day.
5
SPEAKER_00
Really?
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, definitely.
5
SPEAKER_00
You would poop probably twice a day, but it s not about the number.
5
SPEAKER_00
So I want to make sure that we not fixate on this because I m quite sure there will be listeners who will hear this and they ll go, something s wrong with me.
5
SPEAKER_00
Hold up.
5
SPEAKER_00
If you are pooping on a level where you have complete adequate bowel movements, it s satisfying, you have a sense of relief when you re done, and you are not suffering symptoms as a result of your bowel movements, you re in a great place.
5
SPEAKER_00
And maybe that s not once a day for you, and that s okay.
5
SPEAKER_00
All right, so there are people who poop every other day, and I would not classify them as constipated based upon that alone.
5
SPEAKER_00
Meanwhile, Lewis, there are people who poop every day, and they are clearly constipated.
5
SPEAKER_00
And unfortunately, they don t even realize that they re constipated because they say, I m pooping every day.
5
SPEAKER_00
You need better bowel movements.
5
SPEAKER_00
If you are not completely evacuating when you go, then that is to me the first step towards backing up and backing up as constipation.
5
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
5
SPEAKER_01
How long should it take when you get on the toilet to finish?
5
SPEAKER_01
Should it be like, okay, I sit down, it should be like 30 seconds done, I wipe it clean and move out, or is it like okay to be there for a few minutes?
5
SPEAKER_00
So for the dudes in the audience, I m quite sure that many of you have a habit of bringing your phone into the bathroom and checking your Fantasy League or whatever it may be, or playing a video game.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I don t want you spending more than five minutes on the toilet if you can avoid it.
5
SPEAKER_00
So the process of pooping should be where we feel a sense of urge.
5
SPEAKER_00
Not necessary urgency, but urge.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, I need to go.
5
SPEAKER_01
I gotta go.
5
SPEAKER_01
I can hold it if I need to, but it s ready.
5
SPEAKER_00
But now s the time.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Right.
5
SPEAKER_00
And in that moment, you are listening to the cues of your body, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
This is completely natural.
5
SPEAKER_00
And you go into the bathroom, you get into a proper pooping position, which by the way, a proper pooping position is not sitting rigidly on a toilet.
5
SPEAKER_00
What is it?
5
SPEAKER_00
It s moving your feet up.
5
SPEAKER_00
So having some sort of... Oh, I ve got that.
5
SPEAKER_00
You got a squatty potty?
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Do you?
5
SPEAKER_00
I love it, man.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes!
5
SPEAKER_00
I love a squatty potty, man.
5
SPEAKER_00
I ve had that for a few years.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, you re a pooping master.
5
SPEAKER_00
You re a pooping icon.
5
SPEAKER_01
I don t know about that.
5
SPEAKER_01
I think the reason I got it is because I used to be constipated.
5
SPEAKER_01
I used to be like blocked up, right?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
I don t know if this is too TMI here, but... Certainly not with me.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I want to ask you this.
5
SPEAKER_01
for probably, I don t know, 15, 20 years.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like it was not every day, but it seemed like it was off and on, right?
5
SPEAKER_01
It s like, oh man, I m taking a while to go.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s like, you know, and here s when it started to change.
6
SPEAKER_01
So what you re telling me at the beginning of this conversation is starting to make some sense.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I started to pull some of this together in the last couple of years, too.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m curious about when I was 16, I had eight teeth removed.
6
SPEAKER_01
The orthodontist was like, you ve got a small mouth, we gotta open your mouth, we re gonna give you braces, but we gotta take out the four wisdom and then four on the sides.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s brutal, right?
6
SPEAKER_01
It was miserable.
6
SPEAKER_01
Four weeks of recovery with just ice bags and a freaking helmet to like hold it together, right?
6
SPEAKER_01
It was miserable.
6
SPEAKER_01
Now, as I started to heal, I was just like, I don t wanna go through more pain.
6
SPEAKER_01
I was 16.
6
SPEAKER_01
Football season was coming up.
6
SPEAKER_01
I was gonna wear a mouth guard for three months.
6
SPEAKER_01
I was like, I ll wait till basketball season.
6
SPEAKER_01
to put the braces on.
6
SPEAKER_01
I delayed it as long as I could.
6
SPEAKER_01
You know, three months turned into 20 years.
6
SPEAKER_01
where my teeth started to enclose, I couldn t, my back teeth stopped touching.
6
SPEAKER_01
So I only could touch my front two teeth, right here.
6
SPEAKER_01
The back teeth like enclose, it like went reverse my jaw.
6
SPEAKER_01
So the back teeth did not touch.
6
SPEAKER_01
So I wasn t able to chew properly.
6
SPEAKER_01
So it would get very tiring chewing with my front two teeth.
6
SPEAKER_01
So it essentially just eat a few bites and swallow.
6
SPEAKER_01
So one, I finally got Invisalign and got braces and I finally got implants of those teeth so that I can actually chomp my food better.
6
SPEAKER_01
Once I got those implants in, I still have one more thing to do.
6
SPEAKER_01
Once I got them in, I noticed that I started to use the bathroom better.
6
SPEAKER_01
I was able to chew more fully, chomp more fully.
6
SPEAKER_01
and therefore process better.
6
SPEAKER_01
I was also more intentional about how I was eating and what I was eating and things like that.
6
SPEAKER_01
But I m curious if, you know, if you re just chewing a few bites and swallowing your food as opposed to actually chewing it down, how that affects your, I guess, blocked up or constipation levels.
6
SPEAKER_01
And adding that with a processed diet, I m assuming, did not support me with my gut.
6
SPEAKER_00
Right.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
There s multiple different factors there.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s interesting what you re describing with your teeth because this is what a lot of older people deal with on a routine basis.
6
SPEAKER_00
Really?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
And they struggle to be able to chew their food.
6
SPEAKER_00
And because they can t chew their food, they opt for simpler foods that are pre-digested in a way.
6
SPEAKER_00
Really?
6
SPEAKER_00
Which are ultra-processed foods.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s a lot easier to eat ultra-processed foods.
6
SPEAKER_00
There s quite a bit of data actually around eating rate, how fast we eat.
6
SPEAKER_00
By the way, this is something that we re looking at at ZOE.
6
SPEAKER_00
ZOE is a company that we are running the world s largest nutrition science study right now, and I m the US medical director.
6
SPEAKER_00
With eating rate, how fast you eat.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s highly compelling that foods that require us to slow down actually are beneficial to our metabolism.
6
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
And you can take the exact same food and serve it two different ways, one of which you can just scarf down, or the other one requires you to actually chew your food.
6
SPEAKER_00
And the one that requires you to chew your food that s less pre-digested actually is better for your body metabolism.
6
SPEAKER_01
Really?
6
SPEAKER_00
So what about smoothies?
6
SPEAKER_00
What about a smoothie?
6
SPEAKER_00
In a perfect world, you would eat a salad.
6
SPEAKER_00
You wouldn t make a smoothie?
6
SPEAKER_00
You wouldn t make a smoothie, but I m here advocating for smoothies because they re delicious and they re a great way to still get fiber, phytochemicals, polyphenols into your diet with a diversity of plants.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then you can have your salad for a month.
6
SPEAKER_00
You re not going to eat a salad at every meal, let s be honest.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, exactly.
6
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
6
SPEAKER_01
So you re saying nut butter versus almonds.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s better down the almonds.
6
SPEAKER_00
A hundred percent.
6
SPEAKER_00
Why is that?
6
SPEAKER_00
I think there s a couple things.
6
SPEAKER_00
Part of it is the food itself.
6
SPEAKER_00
Food is more than just calories and nutrients and macros.
6
SPEAKER_00
There s a structure to the food.
6
SPEAKER_00
We call it the food matrix.
6
SPEAKER_00
An intact food matrix is, generally speaking, the preferred way to consume our food.
6
SPEAKER_00
Basically, what that means is less processed.
6
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
So if it s pure, even if it s like a whole food, but it s pureed or processed, right, or crushed down or whatever it might be, it s better to have the whole food by itself than the processed version or the crushed down version.
6
SPEAKER_00
When possible, but like, I m not here to make it sound like I don t like almond butter or peanut butter.
6
SPEAKER_00
There have been some interesting studies about if you take the exact same food and you cook it
6
SPEAKER_00
If you cook it, it actually has a different effect on the microbiome.
6
SPEAKER_00
For example, you take kale and maybe you would steam the kale to soften it up and things like this.
6
SPEAKER_00
By steaming it, you re actually changing the food a little bit.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s not a bad thing.
6
SPEAKER_00
It ll have a slightly different effect on your gut microbiome than that raw, uncooked kale.
6
SPEAKER_00
There s a lot of interesting stuff there.
6
SPEAKER_01
What is more effective or more efficient, the raw uncooked vegetables or cooked slash steamed slash sauteed vegetables?
6
SPEAKER_00
Well, I think when people are changing their diet, it s better to give your gut an opportunity to adapt and to gently ease into it.
6
SPEAKER_00
And cooked food or like, you know, smoothies, like things that are kind of broken down already, they re a lot easier to digest than like the raw foods are.
6
SPEAKER_00
So like going raw food only, to me, I don t really
6
SPEAKER_00
Advocate for that hard.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
All right, so bowel movements.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yes, so I Prefer for people to have a natural bowel movement in five minutes or less.
6
SPEAKER_00
You shouldn t have to strain to go in a perfect world It should come out quite naturally you get your business done you get up you walk out the door.
6
SPEAKER_00
Don t sit there Don t sit there because blood gets pulled down into your pelvis when you re sitting there in that position and
6
SPEAKER_00
It actually fills the hemorrhoids.
6
SPEAKER_00
We have an epidemic.
6
SPEAKER_00
I hate to say this.
6
SPEAKER_00
I feel like we ve been talking about a lot of epidemics here today.
6
SPEAKER_00
We have an epidemic of hemorrhoidal issues.
6
SPEAKER_00
What is hemorrhoids?
6
SPEAKER_00
Hemorrhoids are the most attractive concept out there.
6
SPEAKER_00
These are basically like veins that carry blood and they exist right around our bottom.
6
SPEAKER_00
Now, I know I should have an answer for why did we evolve to have hemorrhoids and I do not.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t honestly know why we evolved to have hemorrhoids, but we did.
6
SPEAKER_00
They re there.
6
SPEAKER_00
All right.
6
SPEAKER_00
And when our bowel movements change, whether that be constipation or diarrhea,
6
SPEAKER_00
or straining to go and bearing down and pushing.
6
SPEAKER_00
We are actually driving blood down into these beds of tissue, these hemorrhoids, and they get engorged, they get enlarged, and then they can cause trouble.
6
SPEAKER_00
So they can cause bleeding, they can pop out, they can itch.
6
SPEAKER_00
So there s a number of different things, and statistically 50% of Americans who are age 50 have hemorrhoidal issues.
6
SPEAKER_00
So- You heal those hemorrhoids.
6
SPEAKER_00
You can make dietary changes that will certainly improve them substantially because they ebb and flow a little bit.
6
SPEAKER_00
So maybe they wouldn t be completely non-problematic because they are a part of our anatomy.
6
SPEAKER_00
So when you change the anatomy and you have an issue there, it s on some level there to stay until you do something surgically to fix it.
6
SPEAKER_00
But anyway, so that s the reason to not spend too much time on the toilet.
6
SPEAKER_01
So if someone is having one of those three, I guess you said, diarrhea, constipation, and... Like straining to go.
6
SPEAKER_01
Straining to push through to go, right?
6
SPEAKER_01
If they re experiencing that occasionally or frequently,
6
SPEAKER_01
What are the main causes of those three styles of unhealthy pooping?
6
SPEAKER_00
This is a huge conversation.
6
SPEAKER_01
I mean, like I have- It might take a day to hold it in.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I have like courses that are multi-hour courses that I ve taught on each of those topics.
6
SPEAKER_00
But if we were to say, okay, let s bring it back to like, what is the thing you can do?
6
SPEAKER_00
And the answer is fiber.
6
SPEAKER_00
Fiber.
6
SPEAKER_00
Because the power of fiber, again, 95% of Americans are deficient in fiber.
6
SPEAKER_00
What s unique and special about fiber, one of its superpowers beyond feeding and fueling our gut microbiome to create short-chain fatty acids, is that it s the only thing that I m aware of
6
SPEAKER_00
that can fix both diarrhea and constipation.
6
SPEAKER_00
Fiber.
6
SPEAKER_00
And bring it back to the middle.
6
SPEAKER_00
So it gives your stool form.
6
SPEAKER_00
It gives you that glorious soft but formed bowel movement that we re striving towards.
6
SPEAKER_00
And when it s soft and formed, then it comes out a lot easier.
6
SPEAKER_00
You don t have to strain to go.
6
SPEAKER_00
So we are addressing all of the issues that you just described.
6
SPEAKER_01
So when you have hard...
6
SPEAKER_01
And when you have hard poop, or... I can see you blushing just a little.
6
SPEAKER_01
Or you have, I guess, I don t know what the word would be, like, not continuous, or it s like just... Yeah, loose.
6
SPEAKER_01
Loose, where it comes out?
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
What does that mean?
6
SPEAKER_01
Does this mean you don t have fiber?
6
SPEAKER_01
If you have, like, really...
6
SPEAKER_00
All right, so what we do know is this.
6
SPEAKER_00
It actually brings me back to a question that you asked earlier, which is how long should it take for us to poo?
6
SPEAKER_00
If it s faster, that s typically associated with loose stool like diarrhea because you have faster transit as you re moving through.
6
SPEAKER_00
And when it s slower, that s associated with constipation.
6
SPEAKER_00
And both of these things are actually associated with changes in the microbiome.
7
SPEAKER_01
Because the microbiome is a player for sure in our gut motility and whether or not we develop diarrhea or constipation.
7
SPEAKER_01
We can actually do a simple at-home exercise to measure this and determine what our gut transit time is.
7
SPEAKER_01
Zoe, this is actually a study that we published in one of the top gastroenterology journals on the planet called The Gut.
7
SPEAKER_01
Basically, what we did is we had people eat blue muffins.
7
SPEAKER_01
These blue muffins, the food died.
7
SPEAKER_01
will show up in your poop.
7
SPEAKER_01
So you can see when it comes out.
7
SPEAKER_01
So you can see when it comes out.
7
SPEAKER_00
How long?
7
SPEAKER_00
You time it?
7
SPEAKER_01
You time it, yes.
7
SPEAKER_01
And most people are like, either they re pooping 24 hours later, or 36 hours later, or up to 48 hours later, and all that is normal.
7
SPEAKER_01
All that is normal.
7
SPEAKER_01
But if you see that blue in less than 18 hours, you got fast transit, and typically you re gonna have diarrhea, and that s actually, that s not good.
7
SPEAKER_01
We don t want that.
7
SPEAKER_01
So that s a lack of fiber.
7
SPEAKER_01
Many times that s a lack of fiber.
7
SPEAKER_01
Or you may see very slow transit where it s coming out more than two days later.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s not good either.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s not good either.
7
SPEAKER_01
So all of these things are actually correlated not just to our microbiome because they are,
7
SPEAKER_01
but they re also correlated to metabolic parameters.
7
SPEAKER_01
For example, there s this thing that we use as physicians to predict a person s risk of cardiovascular disease like heart attack.
7
SPEAKER_01
This is like a 10-year risk score.
7
SPEAKER_01
Believe it or not,
7
SPEAKER_01
like your bowel transit time in this study was correlated to your cardiovascular risk.
7
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
7
SPEAKER_01
So it s worth us paying attention to these things.
7
SPEAKER_00
So having healthy poop is a huge part of living a healthy life.
7
SPEAKER_01
I think so.
7
SPEAKER_01
And I think that like the thing that s interesting about poop is that we ignore it.
7
SPEAKER_01
We ignore it because it s like we ve stigmatized it.
7
SPEAKER_01
But if as a gastroenterologist... Do you look at your poop every time?
7
SPEAKER_01
Most of the time.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m kind of proud.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m kind of proud.
7
SPEAKER_00
We re in a good place.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s good.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
Well, it s important to pay attention, I guess.
7
SPEAKER_00
This is the key.
7
SPEAKER_00
You don t have to stare at it, but it s important to be like... You don t have to be creepy about it.
7
SPEAKER_00
Okay, yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
Be flush.
7
SPEAKER_00
See it as it goes down and, all right, I m doing the right thing.
7
SPEAKER_01
You don t have to be creepy about it and you don t have to obsess about it, but you should take a look at it.
7
SPEAKER_00
You re not putting your hand in there and checking it out.
7
SPEAKER_00
You re not doing weird stuff.
7
SPEAKER_01
Please don t do weird stuff.
7
SPEAKER_01
But I do think it s worthwhile to take a look and understand where you re at.
7
SPEAKER_01
And there are these seven different measures of stool called the Bristol Stool Score.
7
SPEAKER_01
And they re individual pictures that allow you to see like, hey, my poop looks like this.
7
SPEAKER_01
All right.
7
SPEAKER_01
And some of them are diarrhea and some of them are constipation and some of them are right in the middle where you want to be.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s a Bristol 4.
7
SPEAKER_01
Bristol 4 is the fantastic glorious bowel movement.
7
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
7
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
7
SPEAKER_01
So, and the thing that s key from my perspective, because this correlates to our gut microbiome, and if it correlates to our gut microbiome, then it also correlates to our digestive health, our metabolic health, our immune health, our cognitive health.
7
SPEAKER_01
Because of this,
7
SPEAKER_01
we should be looking at this.
7
SPEAKER_01
So I think it s important for people to know so you can at least know, hey, is this not a Bristol 4?
7
SPEAKER_01
Is this a Bristol 1 or 2, which is constipation?
7
SPEAKER_01
Is this a 6 or 7, which is super loose and watery, which is diarrhea?
7
SPEAKER_01
Because if that s where you are, then we need to make some changes in order to get you to a better place.
7
SPEAKER_01
And a lot of it comes down to adding more fiber to your diet.
7
SPEAKER_01
If you add more fiber to diet for the vast majority of people, they will actually see substantial improvements in terms of those bowel issues.
7
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
7
SPEAKER_01
Now, I don t want to sit here.
7
SPEAKER_01
Like there are people that have, you know, um, uh, some sort of medical issue.
7
SPEAKER_01
Sure.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s more complicated in those people.
7
SPEAKER_00
So let s not make it too simple here.
7
SPEAKER_00
Right, right, right, right.
7
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
7
SPEAKER_00
Fiber.
7
SPEAKER_00
Fiber is one of the keys.
7
SPEAKER_00
It sounds like now, how do you know what are the, I guess, what are the main symptoms of having a leaky gut?
7
SPEAKER_01
Well, we ve started to touch on this.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
So a leaky gut, again, it comes back to this single layer of cells, the epithelial layer.
7
SPEAKER_01
And when it s breaking down, it s because of things that are happening within the microbiome.
7
SPEAKER_01
And it s creating opportunity for things to get into the bloodstream or across into the immune system that aren t supposed to be there.
7
SPEAKER_01
When a person has a leaky gut,
7
SPEAKER_01
There can be a number of things, but I think the first thing you re going to feel is a loss of energy.
7
SPEAKER_01
We saw this in the lipopolysaccharide study where they injected the lipopolysaccharide into their blood.
7
SPEAKER_01
They felt fatigued.
7
SPEAKER_01
That was within a couple hours.
7
SPEAKER_01
So low energy is one of the key signs.
7
SPEAKER_01
And I think the reason why this is, Louis, is because energy is this thing that we all experience.
7
SPEAKER_01
I do, you do.
7
SPEAKER_01
I could ask you right now what your energy level is, zero to 10, you d have an answer for me for sure.
7
SPEAKER_01
And so would everyone else.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yet doctors don t get it.
7
SPEAKER_01
Doctors don t understand.
7
SPEAKER_01
You go to your doctor and say, I m feeling low energy, I m feeling fatigued, and they kind of roll their eyes.
7
SPEAKER_01
And the reason why is because I don t think they mean to dismiss you.
7
SPEAKER_01
I actually think they re very compassionate.
7
SPEAKER_01
They just don t know what to do with that.
7
SPEAKER_01
And what I m saying to you and what I want people to hear is that this is because it s connected to our immune system and inflammation.
7
SPEAKER_01
There s overwhelming evidence that this is true.
7
SPEAKER_01
So right now, if you look at a group of people,
7
SPEAKER_01
20% of people will tell you in the United States that they have low energy and they have tons of fatigue.
7
SPEAKER_01
Okay, 20%.
7
SPEAKER_01
But if you were to look at a group of people that go to their doctor, it s 1 in 3 instead of 1 in 5.
7
SPEAKER_01
1 in 3 people that go to their doctor have low energy.
7
SPEAKER_01
And if you look at people that have a chronic inflammatory condition, it s at least one in two.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s at least 50%.
7
SPEAKER_01
But if you were to look at autoimmune diseases, which are like overt, rip-roaring, chronic inflammation,
7
SPEAKER_01
among autoimmune diseases like Crohn s disease, ulcerative colitis, MS, multiple sclerosis, it s like almost 100% of people will tell you that they have low energy.
7
SPEAKER_01
So to me, energy is, we re pretending, or the traditional medical system has pretended that it s meaningless.
7
SPEAKER_01
We don t know what that means.
7
SPEAKER_01
And I m here telling you that there s now overwhelming evidence that this is a measure of our inflammation.
7
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
7
SPEAKER_00
Now, we ve been talking about the gut health with the immune system.
7
SPEAKER_00
But how does gut health play in with the nervous system and impact it?
7
SPEAKER_01
It gets back to the gut-brain connection.
7
SPEAKER_01
We ve touched on two different ways that the gut connects to the brain.
7
SPEAKER_01
One is for triglycerides and the vagus nerve.
7
SPEAKER_01
So let s look at some of the other ways.
7
SPEAKER_01
One is neurotransmitters.
7
SPEAKER_01
So neurotransmitters are things like serotonin.
7
SPEAKER_01
Serotonin is the happy hormone.
7
SPEAKER_01
When we treat major depression or generalized anxiety disorder, we use serotonin reuptake inhibitors to boost serotonin levels in the brain.
7
SPEAKER_01
It turns out that 95% of serotonin is produced not in your brain, in your gut.
7
SPEAKER_00
But everyone talks about serotonin in the brain.
7
SPEAKER_01
But it s produced in the gut.
7
SPEAKER_01
95% of it is produced in the gut.
7
SPEAKER_01
5% of it is produced in the brain.
7
SPEAKER_01
Now in the brain, it is very relevant and important for how we feel, our mood, our energy levels, our focus.
7
SPEAKER_01
But in the gut, the microbes have the ability to actually shape the production of serotonin and serotonin precursors.
7
SPEAKER_01
And these serotonin precursors affect bowel motility and affect mood and can cross the blood-brain barrier.
7
SPEAKER_01
So if you think about this, people that have, for example, irritable bowel syndrome.
7
SPEAKER_01
All right, so what is irritable bowel syndrome?
7
SPEAKER_01
There s no, here we are, it s 2024.
7
SPEAKER_01
We don t have a blood test.
7
SPEAKER_01
We don t have a CAT scan or anything we can do to diagnose this condition.
7
SPEAKER_01
We ve known about it for 50 years.
7
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
7
SPEAKER_01
What is going on here?
7
SPEAKER_01
Well, they have a change in bowel motility.
7
SPEAKER_01
They all have either diarrhea or constipation.
7
SPEAKER_01
They all have abdominal pain.
7
SPEAKER_01
And in an overwhelming fashion, they suffer from mood disorders.
7
SPEAKER_01
there is a massive disproportionate prevalence of depression, anxiety, and other mood disorders in people that have IBS.
7
SPEAKER_01
And it s quite fascinating because when you think about it, it connects back to the gut and the brain and the new way of thinking about this condition, which has changed many times during my career.
7
SPEAKER_00
Really?
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
About thinking about and treating IBS.
7
SPEAKER_01
Treating about IBS, right?
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SPEAKER_01
Now there s a more holistic view, which is a good thing.
7
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Not just say, here s a drug or here s this thing.
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SPEAKER_01
Yes.
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To say it s not just a digestive disorder, this is a disorder of the brain and gut axis.
7
SPEAKER_01
Interesting.
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Yeah.
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you know, people struggling to go to the restroom from different times if they feel like unsafe, if they feel like maybe they re in an unhealthy relationship and it s causing certain gut issues.
7
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Is that connected to the nervous system not feeling safe because of the environment or relationships that are out of alignment?
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SPEAKER_00
Does that impact the digestive inner workings as well?
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SPEAKER_00
You know, is that all play in?
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100% Really?
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100% Do you think IBS is more
8
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of an emotional challenge then?
8
SPEAKER_01
I think it s a disorder of the brain-gut axis.
8
SPEAKER_01
Interesting.
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I think it s more than just one or the other.
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I think it s both.
8
SPEAKER_01
So we have to incorporate both in our concept of that.
8
SPEAKER_01
But start with a simple example.
8
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A person s about to go on stage and give a speech.
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SPEAKER_01
They have anxiety around that.
8
SPEAKER_01
What do they do?
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They feel flutter in their stomach.
8
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Start to feel some nausea.
8
SPEAKER_01
Maybe it builds towards cramping abdominal pain.
8
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and maybe they have to run to the restroom and go.
8
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
8
SPEAKER_01
Right?
8
SPEAKER_01
When I was in medical school on test day, there was a line out the bathroom door.
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SPEAKER_01
It was disgusting.
8
SPEAKER_00
Right before when I played football, man, I had to go like five, 10 minutes before the game started.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
It was like, you try to go an hour before to get it done, but then like just the nerves of the excitement would just be like,
8
SPEAKER_00
I gotta go now.
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SPEAKER_01
Right before we re starting the game, I m like, I gotta go.
8
SPEAKER_01
Let s describe exactly what s happening there.
8
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So basically what s happening there is this is once again the brain-gut connection.
8
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Now the brain is taking center stage instead of the gut.
8
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The gut becomes secondary.
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SPEAKER_01
And the stress of the moment leads to activation of the sympathetic nervous system.
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The sympathetic nervous system is the opposite of what we were describing with the vagus nerve.
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The vagus nerve is our parasympathetic, that s our rest and digest.
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The relaxed state.
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SPEAKER_01
The sympathetic is I m about to run into a football field and try to knock someone s head off, right?
8
SPEAKER_01
So you re getting charged up for a fight or to run away from a saber-toothed tiger or whatever it may be.
8
SPEAKER_01
That s our sympathetic nervous system.
8
SPEAKER_01
The brain, as a part of that stress response, there are good things that happen.
8
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You get an adrenaline surge.
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You feel powerful.
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You can, in that moment, do superhuman things.
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But there s a sacrifice.
8
SPEAKER_01
And the sacrifice is your gut.
8
SPEAKER_01
The brain releases a hormone called corticotropin-releasing hormone, or CRH.
8
SPEAKER_01
And the CRH sets off this inflammatory cascade.
8
SPEAKER_01
And downstream, if you follow that, ultimately what you discover is it has a negative impact on the gut microbiome.
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It affects bowel motility.
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SPEAKER_01
It also actually directly affects the microbes.
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So there s a shift within the microbiome.
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SPEAKER_01
And then here we are and you got to go to the bathroom.
8
SPEAKER_00
You would think that in a fight or flight moment that your body would suck it in so you could actually run away, right?
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SPEAKER_00
Or like get away from the moment.
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SPEAKER_01
Some people do.
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Some people get very, very constipated under stress.
8
SPEAKER_01
But you know, basically what we re talking about though is like an acute stress, right?
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An acute stress.
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SPEAKER_01
Yes.
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Which is different from a chronic stress.
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What do you, what do you do if you ve been exposed to trauma and it lives in your unconscious mind?
8
SPEAKER_01
and it causes you chronic stress on a daily basis because you have not healed that wound, that emotional wound.
8
SPEAKER_01
What happens?
8
SPEAKER_01
People get IBS, and Crohn s disease, and ulcerative colitis, and I ve had many patients- Leaky gut too?
8
100%.
8
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
8
SPEAKER_01
Because what I m giving you are the diagnoses, but the root cause is a damaged gut with leaky gut.
8
SPEAKER_00
So the symptoms, or the diagnoses, I guess, are the damaged gut,
8
SPEAKER_00
But the root of that is a lack of healing, an emotional trauma.
8
SPEAKER_01
I ve had many patients.
8
SPEAKER_01
These are actually my proudest moments as a doctor, to be completely honest with you.
8
SPEAKER_01
My proudest moments are not getting people to change their diet.
8
SPEAKER_01
My proudest moments are taking that person who has been to six or seven doctors and they re not getting better even with medication.
8
SPEAKER_01
and you build a doctor-patient relationship, it s not one visit, talking about four, five, six visits, and you get to a place where they tell you something from their past that is still affecting them today.
8
SPEAKER_01
And my role as the doctor is not to fix that specific issue, it s to bring awareness to them so that they understand that these are not separate issues.
8
SPEAKER_01
And once they discover that, then actually treatment is like next level because they actually turn their attention towards the thing that they ve been avoiding or ignoring.
8
SPEAKER_01
They turn towards that.
8
SPEAKER_01
And they have a health care professional, not me, that s not what I do, but they have a health care professional who helps them to heal that wound.
8
SPEAKER_01
And when they heal that wound, these are people that have been doing 30 different plants.
8
SPEAKER_01
exercising, deep breathing exercises, everything.
8
SPEAKER_01
Their gut is still messed up.
8
SPEAKER_01
Gut s still not messed up.
8
SPEAKER_01
Dr. B, I ve done everything your book tells me to do.
8
SPEAKER_01
I m still messed up.
8
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
8
SPEAKER_01
Once we discover this, the healing is a rocket ship.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s like within days, it s like transforms.
8
SPEAKER_01
They are completely transformed because everything is right, but it s like that rocket ship is chained down.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s chained down, so it s trying to go off, but it can t go off because of these chains, and you gotta break the chains, the chains that are holding him back, and that is their history of trauma.
8
SPEAKER_00
Man, isn t this fascinating that you could do all the right things physically, but if you don t heal emotionally or psychologically and allow your nervous system to feel safe, you can t take off as a human being.
8
100%.
8
SPEAKER_00
That is fascinating.
8
SPEAKER_00
And that s why I just believe that learning to face yourself and address the emotional, psychological, or memory wounds that you re holding onto and processing those things that can take time and healing those things emotionally will set you free physically as well.
8
SPEAKER_01
I think this is the missing piece that a lot of people haven t heard and they need to hear.
8
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
8
SPEAKER_00
It s almost like doctors, if they had also training on therapy,
8
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you know, how to implement that type of process.
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I guess you couldn t be trained therapist with some type of training.
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SPEAKER_00
It s almost like that could also elevate healing better.
8
SPEAKER_01
I am a believer in a teams-based approach to healing.
8
SPEAKER_01
That there s not going to be that one person that does everything anymore.
8
SPEAKER_01
That you need to surround yourself with a team of competent people that you trust and you have faith in and work with them.
8
SPEAKER_01
But it s the, I want to give a quick shout out to one of my mentors at the University of North Carolina.
8
SPEAKER_01
His name is Doug Drossman and he is the
8
SPEAKER_01
founder of irritable bowel syndrome.
8
SPEAKER_01
So he wrote the book.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s called the Rome Foundation.
8
SPEAKER_01
And basically it was like a group of scientists that met in Rome, Italy for the first time and like put together this idea of what IBS is back in the 80s.
8
SPEAKER_01
So that was Rome one and they ve gone through and I think they re on Rome four now.
8
SPEAKER_01
So basically, but he s the author.
8
SPEAKER_01
He s the guy that has organized this and led this, created this diagnosis.
8
SPEAKER_01
I worked in his clinic.
8
SPEAKER_01
The hospital hated us.
8
SPEAKER_01
We would see two patients.
8
SPEAKER_01
in a half of a day.
8
SPEAKER_01
Most gastroenterologists these days see two patients in 15 minutes.
8
SPEAKER_01
Really?
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
We would see two patients in a half of a day.
8
SPEAKER_01
We would spend hours with these people, but these were the people that I m describing that would bounce from doctor to doctor and never get better, and the system was failing them.
8
SPEAKER_01
Because you can t just use a pill for everything.
8
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
8
SPEAKER_01
You can t just make a diagnosis and fix everything.
8
SPEAKER_01
At some point, someone needs to have a holistic view.
8
SPEAKER_01
and see the complete person and see that we are more than just this one set of symptoms.
8
SPEAKER_01
And that s what we did.
8
SPEAKER_01
And he was quite interesting because he was a professor of both medicine and psychiatry, and I would call him a maverick.
8
SPEAKER_01
because like he s back there in the 80s and 90s and coming up and making connections like, you know, for example, history of sexual abuse in childhood, connecting that to the manifestation of digestive disease as an adult.
8
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
8
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that s something I talked about on this show many times about dealing with sexual abuse as a five-year-old and how it left me feeling very unsafe and clinched a lot and kind of like always looking out to see who is going to try to attack me, abuse me, take advantage of me in different social settings, even when it wouldn t be a sexual abuse setting, but just a setting of like school setting, right?
8
SPEAKER_00
Sports, whatever it might be.
8
SPEAKER_00
And I believe that was a big part, like, you know, four or five years ago, I started really diving in deeper on sexual abuse healing.
8
SPEAKER_00
I started about 11 years ago, but didn t fix the teeth and I still ate poorly as well, but I started to kind of put it all together four or five years ago with fixing teeth, intentional eating, eating healthier, healing trauma on a deeper level.
8
SPEAKER_00
And I feel like it s allowed me to have more
8
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freedom within my body as well, peace and harmony.
8
SPEAKER_00
Someone asked me this morning, how are you feeling today at the gym?
8
SPEAKER_00
How are you feeling?
8
SPEAKER_00
And I had another guest on earlier today where I told him I always tell people the truth about how I m feeling.
8
SPEAKER_00
So if I m not feeling good, I m like, man, I m messed up right now.
8
SPEAKER_00
I m stressed out on this.
8
SPEAKER_00
Like, I m honest with how I m feeling.
8
SPEAKER_00
I don t just say good for every answer.
8
SPEAKER_00
And I said, I m feeling peaceful, loved, abundant, grateful and harmonious.
8
SPEAKER_00
and it s how I feel.
8
SPEAKER_00
But it s been willing to face incredible amounts of pain within myself, address it, not just once and be done, but consistently for the last four and a half years, almost weekly, and being willing to
9
SPEAKER_02
face it and process the pain to create meaning, to process shame, guilt, insecurity, and whatever else I was holding on to psychologically, emotionally, physically from the different traumas of life and allowing myself to self-love without shame anymore.
9
SPEAKER_02
And it has been one of the most challenging processes I ve ever had to experience, but the most liberating and freeing process.
9
SPEAKER_02
And it s a journey that will continue.
9
SPEAKER_02
I feel better.
9
SPEAKER_02
My gut has reacted better.
9
SPEAKER_02
And I only feel like I can improve from here as well and continue to get better.
9
SPEAKER_02
So I m so glad that you, as an expert in this field, as a doctor, medical doctor, talking about
9
SPEAKER_02
Healing the emotional traumas can sometimes be the final thing that allows us to elevate our physical potential as well.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s people like you that have the ability to change the lives of millions of people because you sit here and you speak with openness about a difficult topic for you, and that requires courage and putting yourself out there.
9
SPEAKER_00
I appreciate that you do that.
9
SPEAKER_00
And there s an interesting thing that you said just a moment ago that I can t help but comment on real quick, which is that you talked about feeling tensed up.
9
SPEAKER_00
Clenched.
9
SPEAKER_00
Clenched is the word you used, right?
9
SPEAKER_00
it s actually not a coincidence that constipation is actually the manifestation, in many cases, of that kind of trauma.
9
SPEAKER_00
Because that feeling of clinched, actually, like you truly are.
9
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, constantly.
9
SPEAKER_02
I mean, I constantly was.
9
SPEAKER_02
I don t attach that to myself anymore.
9
SPEAKER_02
But in my years growing up, in my teens, in my early 20s, it was a clinched feeling.
9
SPEAKER_02
It was almost like I was ready to fight at all times.
9
SPEAKER_02
It was like waiting for someone
9
SPEAKER_02
Wanting to trust and love the world, but waiting for someone to take advantage of me at the same time.
9
SPEAKER_00
And it wasn t a relaxed state of being.
9
SPEAKER_00
How can you trust when you re a five-year-old who s vulnerable and exposed to something like that?
9
SPEAKER_00
That s really hard.
9
SPEAKER_00
And as an adult, we re constantly struggling to overcome those types of experiences that we have.
9
SPEAKER_00
But I just find it interesting that the words like this, like clinched, you re intending it figuratively, but it actually is literal.
9
SPEAKER_02
It is literal.
9
SPEAKER_02
And it caused
9
SPEAKER_02
Digestive pain, you know, and it s it s hard to go to the bathroom It was what I m saying there for 20 30 minutes at times, you know being like, how am I gonna get this out?
9
SPEAKER_02
You know, it s just like But like you said going back to the breathing like just activating the breathing alone for 10 minutes a day will allow you to relax your mind your nervous system Your body and connect it your gut as well so that you can process everything better
9
SPEAKER_02
You add the exercise, you add the food, but I feel like the fourth thing, what I m hearing you say, I don t know if this would be the fourth thing, would be healing emotional wounds.
9
SPEAKER_02
healing trauma, and you could do the first three, food, exercise, and breathing, but it sounds like a lot of your patients, until they healed the trauma, they still struggled with their gut.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I don t think this is everyone.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
9
SPEAKER_00
But for people that have something in your past that you re still struggling with, and maybe you ve repressed it, right?
9
SPEAKER_00
Maybe you re not thinking about it, but it s there.
9
SPEAKER_00
If you have something like that, I just want to bring awareness to the fact that this is not something that you re able to hide.
9
SPEAKER_00
and put away to the side, it s continuing to affect you.
9
SPEAKER_00
And to be the best version of yourself, the best thing that you can do is reach out for help and address it directly.
9
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
9
SPEAKER_00
This is beautiful, man.
9
SPEAKER_02
I got so many other questions on my list that I would like to ask you, but I think a lot of these things are probably in one of your books.
9
SPEAKER_02
And you ve got so much content as well.
9
SPEAKER_02
I want people to check out your website.
9
SPEAKER_02
What is the main place that we should send people to to learn about your books, your programs, your information?
9
SPEAKER_00
So, yeah, you can find me on social media.
9
SPEAKER_00
So, I m the Gut Health MD.
9
SPEAKER_00
You can come to my website, which is theplantfedgut.com.
9
SPEAKER_00
I m quite proud of my email newsletter.
9
SPEAKER_00
We have a large community, and basically, my favorite way of communicating is not on social media.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s through your newsletter?
9
SPEAKER_00
It s through my newsletter, because then I can really attack
9
SPEAKER_00
and break down studies the way that I like doing it.
9
SPEAKER_00
I m signing up.
9
SPEAKER_00
Thank you, dude.
9
SPEAKER_00
The other thing is that I mentioned this a few times, but I think I should bring attention to this.
9
SPEAKER_00
I m the US Medical Director of ZOE.
9
SPEAKER_00
ZOE is running the world s largest nutritional sciences study.
9
SPEAKER_00
Basically, if you were to sign up, we send you a kit.
9
SPEAKER_00
It has a microbiome test, a continuous glucose measure, and a blood fat test.
9
SPEAKER_00
And we combine all those factors to give you a personalized dietary plan.
9
SPEAKER_00
And I m actually very proud of the fact that, first of all, Zoe, we ran a randomized controlled trial.
9
SPEAKER_00
and the results are going to be published in Nature Medicine.
9
SPEAKER_00
I don t know exactly when, it depends on when the show airs.
9
SPEAKER_00
Sure, sure.
9
SPEAKER_00
But that s literally the top journal on the planet.
9
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
9
SPEAKER_00
That journal never takes randomized controlled trials.
9
SPEAKER_00
I think the reason why they took ours is because this is a groundbreaking study.
9
SPEAKER_00
But nonetheless, we re honored.
9
SPEAKER_00
What did the study reveal?
9
SPEAKER_00
Well, so people were randomized, so it s a clinical trial, and people in the United States were randomized to either do the ZOE program or U.S.
9
SPEAKER_00
dietary guidelines.
9
SPEAKER_00
Now, U.S.
9
SPEAKER_00
dietary guidelines, if you go and you look at it, I mean, people can find stuff that they disagree with, right?
9
SPEAKER_00
We can all find stuff.
9
SPEAKER_00
But if you actually follow it, most of it is sensible advice.
9
SPEAKER_00
What s the main philosophy of it?
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh, we want you to consume enough fiber.
9
SPEAKER_00
We want you to add more fruits and vegetables to your diet.
9
SPEAKER_00
So, I mean, there s stuff in there that I may disagree with, but the majority of it, I m gonna sit here and say, you know what, you got probably 80% of it right.
9
SPEAKER_02
Sometimes grandma said, finish your pie, you know, so, you know.
9
SPEAKER_01
That s because she loved you.
9
SPEAKER_01
That s because she loved you.
9
SPEAKER_01
It wasn t because she was worried about your health.
9
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
9
SPEAKER_01
And she wanted you to love her back.
9
SPEAKER_00
Exactly, yeah, yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
Anyway, we re not comparing to eating croutons.
9
SPEAKER_00
We re comparing to actual real diet that is recommended by our government.
9
SPEAKER_00
In this study, people that were on the ZOE program, first of all, by simply doing the ZOE program for 18 weeks, they lost multiple centimeters off their waist.
9
SPEAKER_00
They reduced their visceral fat.
9
SPEAKER_00
They lost weight.
9
SPEAKER_00
They lowered their triglycerides.
9
SPEAKER_00
They improved their gut microbiome.
9
SPEAKER_00
And then I think the part that I want to talk about, because it s relevant to this whole conversation that you and I have been having here today, is that they had more energy, substantially.
9
SPEAKER_00
Substantially more energy.
9
SPEAKER_00
better mood They slept better and it improved their hunger.
9
SPEAKER_00
So in other words there they were able to control their appetite Yeah, okay, so they got all of these benefits, but then the cool part is people that were the most compliant with our program
9
SPEAKER_00
Meaning there s some people that don t do it.
9
SPEAKER_00
But if you actually do it, what happens?
9
SPEAKER_00
You get everything that I just described yet intensified.
9
SPEAKER_00
You get even more.
9
SPEAKER_00
So you double the number of centimeters off your waist by actually doing the program.
9
SPEAKER_00
But then you also start to reduce cardiovascular risk factors.
9
SPEAKER_00
You lower your blood pressure, your ApoB, your LDL cholesterol.
9
SPEAKER_00
Now here s the part that I think got Nature Medicine excited.
9
SPEAKER_00
I m about to tell you the reason why I think they published our paper.
9
SPEAKER_00
We looked at the people who were most compliant with ZOE versus people who were most compliant with the government guidelines.
9
SPEAKER_00
Like, do you actually follow the advice?
9
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
9
SPEAKER_00
Right?
9
SPEAKER_00
So now it s not an excuse of, oh, I didn t do it.
9
SPEAKER_00
Now it s like, are you actually doing it?
9
SPEAKER_00
And when we compared those two things, ZOE dominated.
9
SPEAKER_00
So in other words, this personalized plan that is specific to you, it s not the same for everyone.
9
SPEAKER_02
Interesting.
9
SPEAKER_00
Outperformed what our government considers to be our ideal diet.
9
SPEAKER_02
which is kind of do this for everyone.
9
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, do this for everyone.
9
SPEAKER_02
So Zoe kind of takes these three different measurements and tells you here s what your
9
SPEAKER_02
your body, your gut, your blood, your genetics, here s what you should be doing for you.
9
SPEAKER_02
And it ll be different for someone else.
9
SPEAKER_00
A hundred percent.
9
SPEAKER_00
You could do it with, if you have a sibling, you have a brother.
9
SPEAKER_00
I ve got three older siblings, yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
Brother and two sisters.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
So like, hypothetically, if y all did this, what you would discover is that you re different.
9
SPEAKER_00
Right?
9
SPEAKER_00
A big part of your difference is your microbiome.
9
SPEAKER_00
Your microbiome is completely unique to you.
9
SPEAKER_00
There s no one on the planet with a microbiome like yours.
9
SPEAKER_00
You might share some more genetics, but your response to food is different because you have all these other factors that are different.
9
SPEAKER_00
We can see that.
9
SPEAKER_00
We can look at your blood sugar, your blood fat, your microbiome.
9
SPEAKER_00
We can give you that feedback, and we can also empower you with an understanding of your food.
9
SPEAKER_00
There s no food that s off limits.
9
SPEAKER_00
This is not about restriction.
9
SPEAKER_00
This is about abundance.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s about understanding, though, your food and how to properly eat for your own unique biology.
9
SPEAKER_00
That, to me, is exciting.
9
SPEAKER_02
So anyway, how can people get access to this or try this?
9
SPEAKER_00
If you want to check it out, go to zoe.com slash will be the reason why I put slash will be there is because you ll find a sweet little gift for me, which is a 10% off ticket.
9
SPEAKER_00
Nice.
9
SPEAKER_00
Um, and you can use that little code to, uh, to save a little cash if you decide to go for it.
9
SPEAKER_00
Amazing.
9
SPEAKER_00
And we have a podcast too, by the way that I ve seen it.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s in the
10
SPEAKER_01
top of the charts in the health section, I see that.
10
SPEAKER_01
It s always competing with me.
10
SPEAKER_01
I m trying to get ahead of it all the time.
10
SPEAKER_00
Well, you have an amazing, diverse podcast.
10
SPEAKER_00
I love what you do.
10
SPEAKER_00
And we are science-oriented exclusively, with a heavy focus on nutrition, but a lot of other things.
10
SPEAKER_00
That s great.
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And so people can check that out, too.
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No, you guys are doing awesome.
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Zoe.com slash will be also the plant fed gut.com.
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Check that out.
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Plant the gut health MD on Instagram, Facebook and social media.
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This is powerful stuff, man.
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And I feel like the more knowledge and wisdom we have around this information, this science, and the more we can just start testing a little bit of it, trying some of it today.
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and seeing how it impacts our mood, our health, our well-being, it s just going to make us better human beings.
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So I m so grateful and I want to acknowledge you, Will, for dedicating the last 20 years of your life to understanding this and expanding your knowledge and doing all the studies and the research.
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but also taking a big risk and a leap of faith when you got sick, I guess, 10, 12 years ago, and saying, hey, let me see if there s other information I can gain outside of my medical training.
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Let me try new things.
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Let me try to take this from a first principles approach.
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Let me try to see if there s other ways that I can heal myself first so that I can help others heal as well.
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So I want to acknowledge you for that, man, because I think there s a lot of people that are sick today, like you talked about.
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And unfortunately, unless people get this information from you or from other people like yourself who are teaching this.
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people are going to be very sick over the next five to 10, 20 years.
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And it s going to take big wake-up calls for them until they make a change.
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So I hope people are able to spread this message and share this with a friend today and help anyone.
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Even if it doesn t seem like someone is unhealthy physically, send them this episode on video or audio to get people educated, informed on how to be healthier and impact the people in their life more.
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It just feels like people are sicker now more than ever.
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Closing thought?
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Yes.
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That sounds very pessimistic.
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I get it.
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And I understand that people would feel that way.
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I m very optimistic.
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That s good.
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Here s why.
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Because there s a revolution taking place in science.
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We didn t know anything about this microbiome stuff until now.
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Now we have the ability to not just look at it, now we can manipulate it.
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We re proving that, for example, with the ZOE study that I just mentioned, the randomized control trial.
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We have the power to manipulate it.
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The choices that you make today will have an effect on your microbiome by tomorrow.
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So for the listeners at home, be optimistic that you can make a small choice.
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And these small choices may seem trivial in the moment, but guess what?
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If you were to come back and do that again tomorrow and the next day, this actually small choice will become a massive and powerful choice for your health.
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Don t wait until you have a problem.
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Do it now.
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That s incredible, man.
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I want to ask you two final questions, Dr. B. One is, I call it the three truths.
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So imagine a hypothetical scenario.
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You get to live as long as you want, but it s your last day on earth.
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And you get to see your family grow up, have a beautiful life, continue to create in science and research and write more books and speak and whatever you want to do, you get to live your life fully.
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But it s the last day, and for whatever reason in this hypothetical scenario, you have to take all of your work with you.
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Every conversation that is recorded is gone.
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Every book, every podcast, every post, anything you ve ever published, it s gone.
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We don t have access to your information anymore.
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But on your final day, you get to leave behind three lessons to the world, three truths that would be your truths.
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What would be those for you?
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So I m going to start with the obvious one from this episode, which is increase your fiber intake and add 30 different plants to your diet.
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All right, so let s get that out of the way and we don t need to talk about that anymore because I want to move into the part that I m excited about, which is number two, to invest into human connection.
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I think it s so important.
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And number three, make sure that you make time for your family and the people that you love.
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So because at the end of the day, all these things, the money is seductive, it s attractive, but it s love, it s relationships, it s family that really are what make us feel full.
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Final question, what s your definition of greatness?
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Thriving in everything you do.
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I hope today s episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness.
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Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today s show with all the important links.
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And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel on apple podcast.
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If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend.
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Leave us a review over on Apple podcast and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis house.
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I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better.
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And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness Newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com slash newsletter.
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And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.
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And now it s time to go out there and do something great.