0
SPEAKER_03
Hello.
0
SPEAKER_03
Morning time.
0
SPEAKER_03
Good morning.
0
SPEAKER_03
How are you today?
0
SPEAKER_03
I m good.
0
SPEAKER_03
I just had a lot of dreams.
0
SPEAKER_03
You know when you wake up and you re like, that was 18 movies.
0
SPEAKER_03
Just starring all the people in my life.
0
SPEAKER_03
Or people used to be in my life.
0
SPEAKER_03
I m sure I m not allowed to bring this up.
0
SPEAKER_04
Then you have to.
0
SPEAKER_04
Well, it s not my thing to tell.
0
SPEAKER_04
Even better.
0
SPEAKER_04
A friend of ours had a dream about you.
0
SPEAKER_04
But okay, I think you might have misunderstood exactly what it was.
0
SPEAKER_04
This person had a dream that there was a big group trip happening and I was there and you were there and a lot of our friends were there.
0
SPEAKER_04
You were taking videos throughout the trip as you do.
0
SPEAKER_04
They were really good as they are.
0
SPEAKER_04
Oh my God, we have this on the record.
0
SPEAKER_04
Finally.
0
SPEAKER_04
You ve stopped eye-rolling.
0
SPEAKER_04
Even if I don t like them, I recognize that they re good and they re well-produced.
0
SPEAKER_04
That doesn t mean I like being in them.
0
SPEAKER_04
Okay, got it, got it, got it.
0
SPEAKER_04
They are very good.
0
SPEAKER_04
You re very talented.
0
SPEAKER_04
And then in this dream, you got the footage from the Ring cam.
0
SPEAKER_04
and, like, the security cameras in the house that we were staying in.
0
SPEAKER_04
And you were, like, splicing in footage that we didn t know.
0
SPEAKER_04
Like, we didn t know we were in, and they were, like, us naked.
0
SPEAKER_04
And this person was masturbating.
0
SPEAKER_04
It was like Black Mirror.
0
SPEAKER_04
You were just, like, splicing in our real life within these nice, produced, cute videos.
0
SPEAKER_03
Isn t that crazy?
0
SPEAKER_03
I misread that completely.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_03
I have a tendency to read things too quickly.
0
SPEAKER_03
So I skip words.
0
SPEAKER_03
When I got the text, I was on a run.
0
SPEAKER_03
How I read it was, you were making videos that were becoming more and more sexual and you were masturbating.
0
SPEAKER_03
I didn t realize that I was exploiting people in this video.
0
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_03
I read a very rose-colored glasses version.
0
SPEAKER_03
I was a little weirded out by this person saying that I was masturbating in their dream.
0
SPEAKER_03
I was like, that s a little much.
0
SPEAKER_03
Right.
0
SPEAKER_03
But this feels worse though.
0
SPEAKER_04
Maybe you were, but I know this person also was, and I was also naked in it.
0
SPEAKER_04
So there was a lot.
0
SPEAKER_03
Everyone was naked.
0
SPEAKER_04
Yes.
0
SPEAKER_04
I thought this was so interesting.
0
SPEAKER_04
For one, I just thought it was funny because that s bizarre.
0
SPEAKER_04
So then I asked them, so you saw me naked in your mind.
0
SPEAKER_04
but you don t know what I look like naked.
0
SPEAKER_04
So I really am curious about the version that this person saw versus the reality.
0
SPEAKER_04
Oh, I like that.
0
SPEAKER_04
This is a close friend, so they know me in like a bathing suit and stuff.
0
SPEAKER_04
They know essentially what my body looks like, but nobody knows what your body really looks like unless you re fully naked in front of them.
0
SPEAKER_03
I feel like I know what your body looks like naked.
0
SPEAKER_03
No, you don t.
0
SPEAKER_03
I think I do.
0
SPEAKER_03
OK, but you don t.
0
SPEAKER_03
You don t think you do with me?
0
SPEAKER_03
No.
0
SPEAKER_03
I think I know what a lot of your body looks like based on a bathing suit.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_03
Maybe you d be surprised by like one little element, but mostly you d get it right.
0
SPEAKER_04
Although sometimes you get pop outs, like every now and then I ll see someone close to me s boobs or something.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
0
SPEAKER_04
And I will be surprised.
0
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, boobs really come in all different shapes and sizes.
0
SPEAKER_03
I would love to know what other, well not other people, but some people.
0
SPEAKER_03
What their boobs look like.
0
SPEAKER_03
What their boobs look like and what they think my boobs look like.
0
SPEAKER_03
That s my whole point.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
0
SPEAKER_03
That s what I m saying.
0
SPEAKER_01
Isn t it really just nipples?
0
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
0
SPEAKER_04
I guess it s nipples.
0
SPEAKER_04
That s mainly it.
0
SPEAKER_04
Cause obviously, you know, size and stuff based on definitely bathing suits and tight shirts or whatever.
0
SPEAKER_04
Well, this person did say, I said, Oh God, I wonder what you pictured.
0
SPEAKER_04
And they said the same thing you just said.
0
SPEAKER_04
Just like, I know what it looks like.
0
SPEAKER_04
And I was like, no, you don t.
0
SPEAKER_04
Then they re like, I do think I got it a little wrong because Liz s boobs were bigger.
0
SPEAKER_04
And I was like, yeah, she has small boobs.
0
SPEAKER_03
Flashbacks, being 14.
0
SPEAKER_03
I kind of like that he imagines me with big boobs.
0
SPEAKER_03
I mean, I am attracted to women.
0
SPEAKER_03
I prefer bigger boobs.
0
SPEAKER_04
But that s probably because you have smaller boobs.
0
SPEAKER_04
So everyone just wants what they don t have.
0
SPEAKER_04
I would love to have... Don t say it.
0
SPEAKER_03
I would.
0
SPEAKER_03
You have the most perfect... Don t.
0
SPEAKER_03
I would love to have very small boobs.
0
SPEAKER_03
You can t say that publicly.
0
SPEAKER_03
You can t.
0
SPEAKER_03
I just said it.
0
SPEAKER_03
You can t.
0
SPEAKER_03
You have the ideal body.
0
SPEAKER_03
You can t.
0
SPEAKER_03
I m just telling you, people are going to be mad.
0
SPEAKER_04
People are going to be mad at you because there s no such thing as the ideal body.
0
SPEAKER_04
And I mean that not from a feminist standpoint.
0
SPEAKER_04
I really do mean that because there are so many shirts and shit that I cannot wear or I just do wear, but it doesn t look nearly as good as it would if I had a flatter chest.
0
SPEAKER_03
Right.
0
SPEAKER_04
And vice versa.
0
SPEAKER_03
I love my boobs now, but I really was insecure about it.
0
SPEAKER_03
Just as a teenager too, like when I played underwater hockey.
0
SPEAKER_03
What?
0
SPEAKER_03
With an all-male team.
0
SPEAKER_03
What s that mean, underwater hockey?
0
SPEAKER_03
You re below water?
0
SPEAKER_03
Yes, you re below.
0
SPEAKER_03
You don t know this?
0
SPEAKER_03
No.
0
SPEAKER_03
Okay, underwater hockey, there s a goal in the shallow end, there s a goal in the deep end.
0
SPEAKER_03
The stick is shorter, so it s about this big.
0
SPEAKER_03
Like a ruler size, but it s like curvy.
0
SPEAKER_03
And then the puck is heavier, so it sinks to the bottom of the pool.
0
SPEAKER_03
And then you have defense and you have like the same.
0
SPEAKER_03
And then you switch, because obviously it s way harder when your goal is in the deep end to defend.
0
SPEAKER_03
And so you switch every like, I don t remember, 15 minutes.
0
SPEAKER_03
And it s the hardest.
0
SPEAKER_03
I did synchronized swimming, and that was hard.
0
SPEAKER_03
This was...
0
SPEAKER_03
So hard.
0
SPEAKER_03
That sounds impossible.
0
SPEAKER_03
How do you stay underwater that long?
0
SPEAKER_03
You have flippers.
0
SPEAKER_03
You have a mask so you can watch the game and breathe and then choose when to go down.
0
SPEAKER_03
Oh, this sounds like a play.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I m definitely playing that.
0
SPEAKER_03
You won t even go on hikes with me.
0
SPEAKER_04
I won t even swim across the pool.
0
SPEAKER_04
That s the quickest way to get me to die.
0
SPEAKER_04
Ding, ding, ding.
0
SPEAKER_04
Last week s episode of How I Die.
0
SPEAKER_04
You forced me to do underwater hockey.
0
SPEAKER_01
I don t think we have that here.
0
SPEAKER_03
Google it.
0
SPEAKER_03
I ve never heard of it.
0
SPEAKER_03
It started in New Zealand.
0
SPEAKER_03
You should.
0
SPEAKER_03
Oh, my God.
0
SPEAKER_03
It should be a flightless bird.
0
SPEAKER_00
Go to David s pool.
0
SPEAKER_03
Oh, my God.
0
SPEAKER_03
David knows about it.
0
SPEAKER_03
Let s call David.
0
SPEAKER_03
David probably knows about it.
0
SPEAKER_03
OK, I m calling him.
0
SPEAKER_00
David s not a sports guy.
0
SPEAKER_04
But he ll know.
0
SPEAKER_04
He s a New Zealand guy.
0
SPEAKER_04
Well, also, of course, it started in New Zealand because it sounds so childish.
0
SPEAKER_04
Everything s babyish, like cookie time and baby.
0
SPEAKER_02
How quick was that pickup?
0
SPEAKER_04
Okay, David, you re on Synced.
0
SPEAKER_02
Oh, hello.
0
SPEAKER_04
We have a question for you.
0
SPEAKER_04
Are you aware of underwater hockey?
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, water polo.
0
SPEAKER_02
That s different.
0
SPEAKER_04
No water polo is different than underwater hockey.
0
SPEAKER_04
Do you know about underwater hockey?
0
SPEAKER_02
Exactly Ridiculous, and I don t think it s real.
0
SPEAKER_03
I agree Google Liz is saying that it started in New Zealand And so we played it competitively and I know my history You don t know that it started in New Zealand and you don t know it exists.
0
SPEAKER_01
It started in England actually
0
SPEAKER_03
Oh, fuck.
0
SPEAKER_01
South Sea England in 1954.
0
SPEAKER_01
But wait, it does say New Zealand, but in another... It says New Zealand, Great Britain, France, Turkey, Australia, South Africa, and Colombia are the leading underwater hockey nations.
0
SPEAKER_04
Okay.
0
SPEAKER_04
David doesn t even know.
0
SPEAKER_04
Well, of course he doesn t know, because I do think you dreamt it.
0
SPEAKER_04
I think this is all made up.
0
SPEAKER_04
I have photos of competition.
0
SPEAKER_02
For the record, I think any sport that s a regular sport, but then you just decide to put it underwater, shouldn t count as a sport.
0
SPEAKER_03
I agree.
0
SPEAKER_03
I am so hurt right now.
0
SPEAKER_03
Wait, is synchronized swimming not a real sport?
0
SPEAKER_03
No, that s a real sport.
0
SPEAKER_03
That s half above water.
0
SPEAKER_03
Some of it is all underwater.
0
SPEAKER_03
It can t be all underwater.
0
SPEAKER_03
You can t even see the synchronization.
0
SPEAKER_04
To lift people up, you have to do lifts and you re underwater.
0
SPEAKER_04
OK, but the whole sport isn t underwater.
0
SPEAKER_02
The sport we do have in New Zealand that I think is very New Zealand is we have competitive sheep shearing, where we have competitions to see how quickly you can shear the wool off a sheep.
0
SPEAKER_04
Wait, I love that.
0
SPEAKER_04
That s not a sport, that s just an activity.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, okay, good point.
0
SPEAKER_02
I ll see myself out.
0
SPEAKER_04
Wait, for about 20 seconds, Rob, David, and I were on the same page.
0
SPEAKER_04
That s the longest it s ever been.
0
SPEAKER_01
Aligned against Liz.
0
SPEAKER_04
I m happy, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_04
Common enemy, that ll happen.
0
SPEAKER_04
Okay, bye David.
0
SPEAKER_02
Bye, guys.
0
SPEAKER_04
Bye.
0
SPEAKER_04
Oh, man.
0
SPEAKER_02
All right.
0
SPEAKER_03
Well, I m sorry that happened to you, but you did get schooled.
0
SPEAKER_03
Schooled in what way?
0
SPEAKER_03
I d done it for several years.
0
SPEAKER_03
I have photos of the competitions that we did.
0
SPEAKER_03
I can call up many of my friends who were on the team with me.
0
SPEAKER_03
There was only one team in Montreal, so I had to play with the middle-aged men and teenagers.
0
SPEAKER_03
It was like a mix of people.
0
SPEAKER_03
Because there was only one team, which is kind of... That goes to show how small the sport is.
0
SPEAKER_03
I m not saying it s not a small sport.
0
SPEAKER_03
I was just saying it s from New Zealand.
0
SPEAKER_03
Right.
0
SPEAKER_03
But that s wrong.
0
SPEAKER_03
Ish.
0
SPEAKER_03
They play it there.
0
SPEAKER_03
It s a leading.
0
SPEAKER_03
OK, anyway, what am I arguing for?
0
SPEAKER_03
I don t know.
0
SPEAKER_03
I played underwater hockey.
0
SPEAKER_03
You did.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I don t even know how we got here.
0
SPEAKER_03
We were talking about boobs.
0
SPEAKER_03
Anyway, did you have were you insecure about how developed you were as a kid?
0
SPEAKER_04
That s sort of the point is everyone is insecure about their body, regardless of what it looks like and regardless of what other people think the body should look like, because it s all so different.
0
SPEAKER_04
And yeah, I was definitely insecure, but that s why.
1
SPEAKER_01
You can t really win.
1
SPEAKER_01
But you like your boobs.
1
SPEAKER_01
I like what they look like naked.
1
SPEAKER_01
They do get in my way a ton when I m, like, buying clothes or shopping or... I think everyone can relate to this.
1
SPEAKER_01
There s always something about somebody else that you wish you had.
1
SPEAKER_01
But nipples are so different.
1
SPEAKER_01
different across the board.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I do think what people imagine in their head is not always accurate.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t know if I m imagining people s nipples, though.
1
SPEAKER_01
Are you?
1
SPEAKER_00
If I m thinking about someone s boob, I m not imagining it without a nipple.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
Rob, you ve seen a lot of nipples.
1
SPEAKER_00
Do you feel surprised most of the time at what they look like?
1
SPEAKER_00
Or is it mostly what you expected to look like?
1
SPEAKER_01
Uh, there s usually some surprise.
1
SPEAKER_01
There s some variance there.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s what I m saying.
1
SPEAKER_01
Even just as a straight woman, seeing my friend s boobs, it s always like, oh, wow, I guess really what I imagine always is probably my nipples.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m just projecting that everyone s nipples probably look like mine because that s what I m used to, and then they don t.
1
SPEAKER_01
Body is fascinating.
1
SPEAKER_00
Do you remember going to the like swimming pool with your mom and then just seeing like... No, I m gonna stop you there.
1
SPEAKER_00
No.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right, right.
1
SPEAKER_00
Sorry.
1
SPEAKER_01
To play underwater hockey?
1
SPEAKER_00
No.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay, not swimming, but like being in a changing room basically.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, okay.
1
SPEAKER_00
And suddenly seeing...
1
SPEAKER_00
so many vaginas and boobs and pubes.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m imagining like the Ferris Bueller song, this intense experience of just being exposed to so many bodies and being like, oh my God, women s bodies.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because you had only seen your mom.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
If anything, I feel like that s a universal experience.
1
SPEAKER_00
It is.
1
SPEAKER_00
Or even like at school, you would change and you d be so curious.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, but then you don t want to look.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, that s interesting, because when I was younger, the adult female body was way more, like, jarring and scarring than when you re in your own locker room at P.E.
1
SPEAKER_01
Do you guys have P.E.?
1
SPEAKER_01
We do.
1
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_01
What do you think?
1
SPEAKER_01
Look, we just don t know about what everyone has, okay?
1
SPEAKER_01
And I just want to be respectful and ask.
1
SPEAKER_01
Speaking of, this is so funny.
1
SPEAKER_01
Did you watch my video?
1
SPEAKER_01
So, our friend Anna,
1
SPEAKER_01
Me and you were at Kara, shout out, per usual.
1
SPEAKER_01
And we were doing computer work.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s what I call working on your computer.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Computer work.
1
SPEAKER_01
Computer work.
1
SPEAKER_01
We were there for hours.
1
SPEAKER_01
And as I was getting ready to leave, I got a text from her.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, if you haven t left it, can you get me a burrata?
1
SPEAKER_01
And then, but like 14 versions of the word burrata.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then eventually she said, that was Siri trying to say burrata.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, okay, whatever.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know, I just get this text, that s it.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then later, her girlfriend had posted a video of her dictating that into the phone.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so I spliced it together and it really, really made me laugh.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s funny.
1
SPEAKER_01
Different cultures.
1
SPEAKER_01
you know, because of her accent.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I assume that s why, but it s very interesting because Ana can try to, like, do an American version of her accent, and David does this, too.
1
SPEAKER_00
I do it, too, all the time.
1
SPEAKER_00
We adjust to you, because or else you don t know what we re talking about.
1
SPEAKER_00
How do you speak normal?
1
SPEAKER_00
Cirque du Soleil.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s not how we say it.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s Cirque du Soleil, but if I say it the right way, you don t know what I m talking about.
1
SPEAKER_00
I understand.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that makes sense.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s like Le Frigidaire or whatever it is.
1
SPEAKER_00
Which, by the way, I thought about this morning, an additional fun fact about Frigidaire is that we also shortened it to Frigo.
1
SPEAKER_00
We don t even say the name of the brand.
1
SPEAKER_00
We just like make it our own.
1
SPEAKER_00
Also interesting, just speaking about different languages, I can do Siri in English on my phone, but I cannot.
1
SPEAKER_00
do it in French.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like if I speak French and I m writing to anyone in my life that I speak French with, it doesn t know my voice in French.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, interesting.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so I wonder if that s also what happened to Anna.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think your phone is getting to know how you talk.
1
SPEAKER_00
But it knows what you re saying in English.
1
SPEAKER_00
It does.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
But not in French because it hasn t, I don t know, learned it.
1
SPEAKER_01
But we have to be fair to Anna and David, that they have accents.
1
SPEAKER_01
You speak French perfectly, and then you speak French in the way that French is supposed to be spoken.
1
SPEAKER_01
Okay, when I speak English, I don t sound— You don t have an accent.
1
SPEAKER_00
I used to, but yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Really?
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God, yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
I sounded like Celine Dion.
1
SPEAKER_00
Do it.
1
SPEAKER_00
I ll close my eyes.
1
SPEAKER_00
There s actually a voicemail at my parents  house.
1
SPEAKER_00
We could listen to it, and that s how I used to talk.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, wow.
1
SPEAKER_00
If no one answers, you ll hear my voice and be like, oh, that s different.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, they still have a landline.
1
SPEAKER_01
In their little cottage.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, cute.
1
SPEAKER_00
Let s see if it works.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because sometimes when I hit the voicemail, I m like, oh, man, that that is me.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I was before.
1
SPEAKER_00
How old were you?
1
SPEAKER_00
Probably like 18.
1
SPEAKER_00
So many phone calls on this episode.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, no.
1
SPEAKER_00
They took it off?
1
SPEAKER_00
Why?
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_00
So sad.
1
SPEAKER_00
I ll just text them about the answering machine at the cottage.
1
SPEAKER_00
But yeah, it s like, you have reached 544, like, okay, you re closing, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
I remember it was like, bonjour, you have reached 566, I had to lisp a little bit more too, 0524.
1
SPEAKER_00
Please leave us a message.
1
SPEAKER_00
It was like that.
1
SPEAKER_01
But that sounds actually more American.
1
SPEAKER_00
That was Canadian?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, the French-Canadian accent is like... So like, do you understand the way that we... That s really like... I never talked as much like that.
1
SPEAKER_00
I didn t have an accent that was that thick.
1
SPEAKER_00
But it s a little bit like, you know, we add a lot of uhs and do it like this and, you know, Monica Padman and her podcast, It s Really Good.
1
SPEAKER_00
It would be like that, you know?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that is specific.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s a very specific accent.
1
SPEAKER_00
When I hear someone talk, I m like, I know.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s so fun because you get to be like, oh my god.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh my god.
1
SPEAKER_01
Are you good at accents in general because of that?
1
SPEAKER_00
No, I don t think so.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, you won t put it to the test because it might end up racist.
1
SPEAKER_00
It will.
1
SPEAKER_01
You can t do accents anymore.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think it s— Well, Meryl Streep can.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, Meryl Streep can do whatever she wants.
1
SPEAKER_01
I know.
1
SPEAKER_01
On Only Murders in the Building this season, there s a scene where she s, they re doing a play and they re at the table read and she starts doing these different accents and it s unbelievable.
1
SPEAKER_01
You forget how good she is because she s so natural and then that comes into play and you re like, oh, this human, how?
1
SPEAKER_00
My dad, I don t think it works anymore since we changed our telephone service provider.
1
SPEAKER_01
How sad.
1
SPEAKER_01
He should have warned you so you could have saved him.
1
SPEAKER_01
I know, so sad.
1
SPEAKER_00
All right.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, I guess back to boobs.
1
SPEAKER_00
Do you think that we ve evolved when it comes to our acceptance of women s diversity of bodies and boobs?
1
SPEAKER_01
I think it s more just knowledge.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, and also to be fair, I guess men have known this for a long time because they have seen a lot of boobs.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I think it s actually women
1
SPEAKER_01
that don t know.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like I just said, I just project my own body onto other people s bodies.
1
SPEAKER_01
And same with vaginas and vulvas.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like that goop episode they did where they showed all of those different women s vulvas.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was shocked.
1
SPEAKER_00
Do you feel like yours is changing?
1
SPEAKER_00
Really?
1
SPEAKER_00
Is yours?
1
SPEAKER_00
I think it might be.
1
SPEAKER_01
What way?
1
SPEAKER_00
But I don t know if it s just that I haven t, because I don t pay that much attention to it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Do you mean aesthetically or internally?
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t know internally.
1
SPEAKER_00
I haven t been there.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh.
1
SPEAKER_00
How would you know?
1
SPEAKER_01
With vagina bubbles, I m saying is there like something happening internally that you feel is different or are you talking about aesthetic?
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I think both.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think it s a very fragile ecosystem.
1
SPEAKER_00
Microbiome.
1
SPEAKER_00
Microbiome.
1
SPEAKER_00
And that it s related to your gut and it s related to your stress and it s related to so many different things.
1
SPEAKER_00
And men, again, because it s on the outside, it s the same skin.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know that, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Same skin as what?
1
SPEAKER_00
The penis and vagina.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s the same skin.
1
SPEAKER_00
So when people say, you know, oh, vaginas have a smell like they don t, it s literally the same thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s just that ours is on the inside and guys have it on the outside.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, okay, I have to push back a little bit on the fact that we have to acknowledge that there s a different smell often from a penis and a vagina.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think that that is not a result of the internal physicality of the organ.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think that that s as a result of how it is.
1
SPEAKER_00
Wait, what do you mean how it is?
1
SPEAKER_00
That it s the same skin.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, it s not the skin that s making the smells.
1
SPEAKER_01
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, that s what I m saying.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I don t think anyone thinks that.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s internal.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I think some people, I mean, there s a lot of myths about vaginas.
1
SPEAKER_00
billion dollar industry that s around like cleaning your vagina and douches and products that actually threaten your vaginal, you know, health more than actually help it.
1
SPEAKER_00
That comes from these myths that women need to clean the insides or, again, put stuff up there when it s a self-cleaning.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s a self-cleaning oven.
1
SPEAKER_01
It is.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s what they say.
1
SPEAKER_01
I agree with all that, but I think it is actually it s because there s so much microbiome in a vagina that is not there in a penis.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
And that s why women are more likely to get HIV more than men.
1
SPEAKER_00
Same thing with a lot of STDs.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, it s an open wound.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t know if it s a wound.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, sometimes.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
Emotionally.
1
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
We are supported by Skims.
1
SPEAKER_01
I am so thrilled.
1
SPEAKER_01
We would do this for free.
1
SPEAKER_01
We should not say that, but we just said it.
1
SPEAKER_01
I wore a Skims outfit
3
SPEAKER_01
Because that s not proving anything.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s just the truth.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s not trying and they re not saying like, we re perfect or we re, it s just like, we ve done this for 35 years.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like knowing that it s not been perfect for that whole period of time.
3
SPEAKER_01
I prefer that.
3
SPEAKER_00
What about Ryan Reynolds  captions about Blake Lively?
3
SPEAKER_00
Let me read some.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like for her birthday and he s done the posting bad photos of her.
3
SPEAKER_00
That feels more authentic.
3
SPEAKER_01
The only thing irrevocably mine in this world is the love and appreciation and awe I feel for this person.
3
SPEAKER_01
Witnessing her life is something I couldn t take for granted if I tried.
3
SPEAKER_01
And believe me, I try.
3
SPEAKER_01
Happy birthday, Blake Cleverley.
3
SPEAKER_01
You hung the damn moon. 
3
SPEAKER_01
Very sweet.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s not trying.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s beautifully written.
3
SPEAKER_01
I agree.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m not against people showing appreciation of other people on social media.
3
SPEAKER_01
So how should they do it?
3
SPEAKER_01
What should be the rules?
3
SPEAKER_01
No, I don t want rules.
3
SPEAKER_01
Everyone can do whatever they want to do.
3
SPEAKER_01
I just see through a extremely verbose post that, for me, feels like I want the world to know how in love we are.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because from my head, I m like, why do you need the world to know that?
3
SPEAKER_01
Because if you know it, that really is enough.
3
SPEAKER_01
The Ryan Reynolds post doesn t feel like he s trying to prove anything.
3
SPEAKER_01
He s just saying, I love this person, which is different.
3
SPEAKER_01
There s different types.
3
SPEAKER_01
People can post whatever they want.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think it s monitoring how you perceive these things.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
I used to think jealousy was just, I think less of myself.
3
SPEAKER_00
But it s you think less of yourself and you think more highly of others.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Than what they probably actually are.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so both are warped.
3
SPEAKER_00
Not only your view of yourself, but the view of other people.
3
SPEAKER_00
That was something I mean, I guess I m still working on, but I think is less intense than it used to be.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I didn t even realize that I was doing it.
3
SPEAKER_00
I just was assuming that like everyone else is great.
3
SPEAKER_01
Right.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I m just broken.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it s like, no, literally everyone has their own little thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
That was something that my parents, especially my mom, had such a constant perspective and voice on.
3
SPEAKER_01
She would always say, you never know what s really happening over there.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, because I was always doing so much comparison, especially when I was young.
3
SPEAKER_01
That was her party line.
3
SPEAKER_01
Just like, you have no idea what s really happening over there.
3
SPEAKER_01
Or even when it was like, this mom and dad, blah, blah, blah.
3
SPEAKER_01
You don t live in their home.
3
SPEAKER_01
You don t know what s happening.
3
SPEAKER_01
Which I always felt mean, but now I m like, that s right.
3
SPEAKER_01
I have internalized that.
3
SPEAKER_01
You have no idea what is really happening with anyone, with any relationship, anything.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it helps me.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it s also real.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s realistic.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Similarly, my parents were so on the outside what we were on the inside, and that was really hard for me.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I felt
3
SPEAKER_00
Like I wished we could be like the other normal families that were just kind of normal on the outside.
3
SPEAKER_00
And again, probably chaotic.
3
SPEAKER_00
But they weren t.
3
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes I wish that my parents would at least try.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes, just be, quote, normal.
3
SPEAKER_01
But that s so fucked up because there is no such thing as that.
3
SPEAKER_01
And actually, in hindsight, the people who were acting, quote, normal or very presentational, they are the ones doing a disservice because they re acting like there s a perfect way to be and there s not.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
And that s also giving the message to the kids, too, that you need to hide yourself.
3
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_01
You need to fall into this box in order to be liked.
3
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay, let s hop into some questions.
3
SPEAKER_01
This is perfect for us.
3
SPEAKER_01
This is from Kim.
3
SPEAKER_01
Is therapy making us selfish?
3
SPEAKER_01
What is too much therapy?
3
SPEAKER_00
So good.
3
SPEAKER_01
I ve been on a journey in therapy since my dad died while I was in uni.
3
SPEAKER_01
Once I found the right psychologist for me, it was a great experience.
3
SPEAKER_01
After being the avoidant, I m just brutally honest friend, starving self-perfectionist my whole life, I started to learn to feel my emotions, work through trauma, and a lot of walls in my life dismantled.
3
SPEAKER_01
But flip side, my number of friends has dwindled significantly as I set up boundaries and set standards for how I want to be treated.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m also finding myself just focused on myself, which I know is part of this, but how much is too much?
3
SPEAKER_01
How do you know if you re recovering from people pleasing or becoming an asshole with no friends?
3
SPEAKER_01
Help.
3
SPEAKER_01
This is such a good question.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think about this all the time.
3
SPEAKER_01
We ve talked about it.
3
SPEAKER_01
Are we over-therapized?
3
SPEAKER_01
And I don t feel that I am, but I worry that that could happen.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it is something to consider when you re overthinking so much about every relationship, every interaction.
3
SPEAKER_01
Should I put up boundaries here?
3
SPEAKER_01
It kind of can become all-consuming in a way that can feel unhealthy.
3
SPEAKER_01
in its own way, like trying to be so healthy that that also becomes unhealthy.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes, which applies to every other facet of our health.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like caring about what you re eating.
3
SPEAKER_00
Great on face value, but if you re overthinking that and obsessing about it and it s taking over other parts of your life, I mean, it literally has a name, it s orthorexia, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
Just like wanting to be healthy and wanting to eat healthy, you know, it can become a disorder.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t know if we have like a disorder, is it narcissism, I guess?
3
SPEAKER_00
If you re constantly thinking about yourself.
3
SPEAKER_00
I also think about this a lot and I haven t really fallen on one way or the other, but I sometimes feel like I wish I didn t know so much.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s such a fine line because you do need information in order to stop negative patterns and you have to practice it and it is not easy and it does require a lot of thought for a long time before you can make new patterns.
3
SPEAKER_00
And this actually is something I want to talk about, which is this period of time between when you know what you re doing wrong, where your actions are not reflecting
3
SPEAKER_00
the new attitude and the new neural pathways that you re creating about changes that you want to make.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s also a process.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I do feel like that s where people do give up on therapy.
3
SPEAKER_00
Or I also think we should expand that because that can feel so like a really elitist thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like a lot of people can t afford therapy, but it s like free 12-step programs.
3
SPEAKER_00
It could be self-help books.
3
SPEAKER_00
It could be spiritual retreats.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right.
3
SPEAKER_00
Some of my friends, like it s not even that they re doing that much therapy, but they re, I think, overmeditating.
3
SPEAKER_00
And like spend so much time trying to get better and to fix themselves that then it becomes... Then they re isolating themselves from even the real world.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes, the point of I think all kinds of therapy is to have better connections with yourself, but also with other people.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes, for sure.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so if that s cutting you off, and in this case, maybe it means if you re disconnecting from people who aren t healthy, are you spending time connecting with people who are?
3
SPEAKER_00
And maybe that s what needs to happen.
3
SPEAKER_01
What I also want to say is it s okay to have fewer relationships if those relationships are healthy and real and the other ones weren t.
3
SPEAKER_01
I do think there s a fallacy for a lot of people, I think for a lot of women, that the more friends you have, the better off you are, or it makes you feel good by having a ton of people around or have like the most people at your birthday party.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that s not true.
3
SPEAKER_01
It only serves you if it s a healthy, real connection and relationship, and you can have one of those in your life, and that can be perfect and enough.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I think it s, did you lose people who you wish you hadn t?
3
SPEAKER_01
But it kind of doesn t sound like it.
3
SPEAKER_01
It sounds like you had boundaries and then that led to this and the realization of, oh, wow, there s a lot of people in my life who I didn t have healthy relationships with.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that can, I guess, be jarring.
3
SPEAKER_01
But it s OK to let those people go.
3
SPEAKER_01
Also, I will say, and we ve talked about this before, but I really, really believe it.
3
SPEAKER_01
Boundaries can look different.
3
SPEAKER_01
Boundaries doesn t always have to be, I m not engaging in a relationship at all with this person, or like cutting people off.
3
SPEAKER_01
It can be, I m not gonna have this kind of relationship with them.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m not gonna share all my secrets with this person, because I don t think this person can handle secrets.
3
SPEAKER_01
Or I m not gonna go to drinks with this person, because I think this person can t handle drinks.
3
SPEAKER_01
You can adjust the type of relationship.
3
SPEAKER_01
You can still have one.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it can just not have every single component to it or all the parts.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s true.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s not all or nothing.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s not all or nothing.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it s reminding you of what does this relationship serve?
3
SPEAKER_01
If it serves fun, then great.
3
SPEAKER_01
Amplify that and put boundaries around the other pieces and vice versa.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I do think there s a recovery period, for sure, when you start getting into therapy and you re really applying all of the things you re being told, and it s a little overwhelming and it can be all-consuming.
3
SPEAKER_01
There s a, like you said, a time frame.
3
SPEAKER_00
There seems to be an end, but that means that there s a beginning.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I think seeing this as the beginning of something might also be helpful, just reframing this moment.
3
SPEAKER_00
Again, if these were relationships that weren t serving you, not even serving, I feel like that s a weird, even that, like, relationships aren t there to serve you.
3
SPEAKER_01
I know what you mean, because it sounds like you re just trying to get something out of somebody, but that s not what it means.
3
SPEAKER_01
A relationship is additive to your life.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so in that way, it is serving you.
3
SPEAKER_01
Everyone should be served on both sides of the relationship equally.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I think that s the distinction.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think it s okay to say that.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I do think that, again, in this over-therapizing world, there s a lot of therapy speak and people diagnosing themselves and each other and using that as a way to, again, disconnect and to diminish people or to cancel people, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
Right.
4
SPEAKER_01
Like this person s lesser than.
4
SPEAKER_00
Person s toxic.
4
SPEAKER_00
For sure.
4
SPEAKER_01
And it s like, you know, OK, they did something that you don t like and you do things that people don t like, you know.
4
SPEAKER_01
So I guess seeing this as an opportunity to choose things that feel right for you in your life and people that you can be additive to in your life, I think is good.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think the last bit is you are what you give your attention to.
4
SPEAKER_01
And if you re constantly focusing on your problems, and that s what therapy can be.
4
SPEAKER_01
But make sure to talk about your wins in therapy or positive things that you re doing in therapy.
4
SPEAKER_01
My approach is I have to talk about what s wrong in my life.
4
SPEAKER_01
And sometimes I m like, I don t have anything wrong that happened this week.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then you almost look for it.
4
SPEAKER_01
You do.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
So that is problematic.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think it s no one s fault.
4
SPEAKER_01
But talk about the positive things.
4
SPEAKER_01
relationships in your life and that will grow, you know, instead of giving more attention to what s not working and the people who ve left.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I think that s true.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s a balance.
4
SPEAKER_02
Everything s a balance.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
Okay, great.
4
SPEAKER_02
Let s see.
4
SPEAKER_02
This one s tricky.
4
SPEAKER_02
Do I tell my now adultish children about their father s infidelity?
4
SPEAKER_02
This is anonymous.
4
SPEAKER_02
When my youngest child was only a few months old, my husband cheated on me with my sister.
4
SPEAKER_02
Oof.
4
SPEAKER_02
My husband was very remorseful and we worked hard on repairing the damage that was done.
4
SPEAKER_02
My sister and I no longer have a relationship.
4
SPEAKER_02
My children are now 21 and 23.
4
SPEAKER_02
They wonder why their aunt is not in our lives.
4
SPEAKER_02
I feel it might be the time to tell them.
4
SPEAKER_02
I would like for them to hear it from us rather than someone else in the family or outside of our family.
4
SPEAKER_02
I don t want them to hate their father.
4
SPEAKER_02
He s an amazing man, great father who made a horrible mistake.
4
SPEAKER_02
Do I keep this secret forever or is there a time to let them know what everyone else in our family knows?
4
SPEAKER_02
Oh man, that s hard.
4
SPEAKER_02
What s your instinct?
4
SPEAKER_01
My instinct is to want to ask her, like, why does she think it would be important for them to know?
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, I think she s saying she s worried that they re going to find out from somebody else.
4
SPEAKER_01
If that is the reason, then that, I think, is a good reason.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
She says they wonder why their aunt is not in our lives.
4
SPEAKER_02
I guess there s an active questioning.
4
SPEAKER_01
But like, what would be the benefit of them knowing this?
4
SPEAKER_01
And if the benefit is that they would learn it from you instead of someone else, I guess that s good.
4
SPEAKER_01
But secrets are hard.
4
SPEAKER_01
You re only as free as your secrets, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
Or what s the expression?
4
SPEAKER_01
Sort of.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think that s right.
4
SPEAKER_01
Secrets weigh you down.
4
SPEAKER_01
And and if this is weighing you down and it s taking a lot out of you or that you feel like it s affecting your relationship with them.
4
SPEAKER_01
I encourage people to tell the truth as much as possible.
4
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, it implicates a lot of other people.
4
SPEAKER_02
It does.
4
SPEAKER_02
And there is this school of thought of like, have no secrets, always be honest, always share absolutely everything.
4
SPEAKER_02
I mean, we talked about this a little bit last week on another question about, would you tell someone if you knew they were being cheated on?
4
SPEAKER_02
And secrets are, I do think, more nuanced a little bit than what we d like, which is just be honest.
4
SPEAKER_01
Wait, can I say something?
4
SPEAKER_01
Why is it up to her to tell the daughters?
4
SPEAKER_01
Why is it up to the dad if he cheated?
4
SPEAKER_01
Why is she the one who would be revealing this?
4
SPEAKER_02
Well, she says, I would like for them to hear it from us.
4
SPEAKER_02
So my assumption is they together would tell.
4
SPEAKER_01
I feel like it s the dad s like because that feels different to me, too, because I m just imagining for me, like if my mom told me this, that would be just very difficult versus if my dad is telling me something and he s owning up to it, then I think that s different.
4
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, why is it her?
4
SPEAKER_02
What I m guessing is they re approaching this as a unit and it s like, are we going to tell them together?
4
SPEAKER_02
Not, am I going to?
4
SPEAKER_02
Kind of like when two parents sit down their kids and tell them they re getting a divorce.
4
SPEAKER_02
My guess is it s sort of like that.
4
SPEAKER_02
Also, because they re what seems to be in a healthy place now, they probably want to come as a solid front as like, we ve worked hard and now we re here.
4
SPEAKER_02
We feel like we should tell you because you might find out from somebody else.
4
SPEAKER_02
But I will say, I don t want to know.
4
SPEAKER_02
if my parents have cheated on each other.
4
SPEAKER_02
Like, I really don t.
4
SPEAKER_02
Same.
4
SPEAKER_02
As a grown-up person, it could have happened, and I don t care if it happened.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I will care if I know.
4
SPEAKER_02
So I d just rather not if I was in this scenario, if I was the kid, and my grandma or something was like, oh, you know that your dad cheated on your mom with Karen.
4
SPEAKER_02
I d be mad at my grandma.
4
SPEAKER_02
Same.
4
SPEAKER_02
I d be like, no, he didn t.
4
SPEAKER_02
Or I d be like, why did you tell me that?
4
SPEAKER_02
It s not your place to tell me that.
4
SPEAKER_02
Don t meddle in my life.
4
SPEAKER_02
I would be mad at that person.
4
SPEAKER_02
I mean, I m a specific person.
4
SPEAKER_02
I don t know how everyone would react, but I think I would just feel then defensive of my dad, which is a weird defense mechanism to protect yourself and your own family.
4
SPEAKER_02
I don t know.
4
SPEAKER_01
There s a chance that they don t even want to know.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s how I, again, and this isn t even a show about telling people what to do at all to begin with, but I wouldn t want to know.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s why I m like, why does it concern them?
4
SPEAKER_01
Does it affect their life?
4
SPEAKER_01
What are the consequences?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_01
And is she launching a show about fidelity with her dad?
4
SPEAKER_01
Like, like, OK, then there would be a reason to bring it up.
4
SPEAKER_01
But it feels like there s not really a reason other than maybe they would learn it from someone else, which, again, could be a concern that weighs her down and she doesn t want to live with that.
4
SPEAKER_01
But otherwise, I don t need to know everything about my parents.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
You re my parents.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s actually kind of the whole thing.
4
SPEAKER_01
Like, I m not supposed to know every up and down and your role is to be there for me.
4
SPEAKER_01
And that s a unique relationship.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think it s okay that parents have certain things that they don t tell their kids.
4
SPEAKER_02
And then it s like, they re going to go through their whole life and think about all the times.
4
SPEAKER_02
And it is a
4
SPEAKER_02
burden you are adding to them.
4
SPEAKER_02
And it might be worth it.
4
SPEAKER_02
I m not saying it s not worth it.
4
SPEAKER_02
It might be.
4
SPEAKER_02
But that is the truth.
4
SPEAKER_02
You are adding a weight to them.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
Again, we can t really tell you what to do, but that s a really, really tricky position.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I m really sorry you re in it.
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t think that they would be angry at you that you didn t tell them.
4
SPEAKER_01
If they were to find out, sure, but they re not kids.
4
SPEAKER_01
Like, I don t think if I was 21 and I found out by someone else, like, would that make a dramatic difference in how I feel about it?
4
SPEAKER_01
It s like, no, I ll know it.
4
SPEAKER_01
It won t make a difference to their lives.
4
SPEAKER_01
I mean, it might.
4
SPEAKER_01
There are people who would have a big reaction to this and might cut out their dad.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
And sorry, my point was like, I wouldn t be mad at my mom if she had withholding this information.
4
SPEAKER_01
or withheld this information from me.
4
SPEAKER_01
And if she had said, I m not talking to your aunt anymore because we didn t get along.
4
SPEAKER_01
Don t create an intricate lie about it where it s like, she moved away and like, just say we didn t get along.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s not lying.
4
SPEAKER_01
You don t owe every single, in the way that I don t owe every single part of my life to my mom either.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then if they find out, they find out, you know, and you re like, I thought it would hurt you.
4
SPEAKER_01
And now that you know, we can talk about it.
4
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then you talk about it and you grow from it.
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t think they need to know.
4
SPEAKER_01
Would you want to know?
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, would you want to know?
4
SPEAKER_00
No.
4
SPEAKER_00
So, my mom got remarried, and no one in my family knew... Okay.
4
SPEAKER_00
...that she had a previous marriage.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I found it in her closet when I was looking for a birth certificate.
4
SPEAKER_02
Uh-huh.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then they uncovered it, like, three years later, and I was like, yeah, I knew.
4
SPEAKER_00
Didn t really change or matter.
4
SPEAKER_02
Right.
4
SPEAKER_02
I mean, look, there is something about learning that there s been this secret this whole time that feels very unsettling, I think.
4
SPEAKER_02
But that s going to happen either way.
4
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
4
SPEAKER_02
They re going to find out either from you that there was a secret the whole time or from the other people.
4
SPEAKER_02
And maybe they ll never find out from the other people.
4
SPEAKER_02
So I would just let it be, I think.
4
SPEAKER_02
It feels like kind of weird advice.
4
SPEAKER_00
But I think your point s right.
4
SPEAKER_00
They re not gonna be resentful of the mom for having not told this secret.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
I would be like, that makes sense.
4
SPEAKER_02
If they can have empathy and compassion for the whole situation, then they won t be mad.
4
SPEAKER_02
Or again, if she s like, I thought this was gonna hurt you, you d be like, yeah, it does.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s hurting.
4
SPEAKER_01
Unless again, it s like totally fine, but then you wouldn t be mad at all about anything.
4
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
4
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
4
SPEAKER_02
I know it s weird because I ve thought about this on my own of if I found out that my dad cheated.
4
SPEAKER_02
I feel really bad saying this.
4
SPEAKER_02
I would not care.
4
SPEAKER_02
And then I feel guilty because then I feel like I should care on behalf of my mom.
4
SPEAKER_02
You have such an interesting relationship to cheating.
4
SPEAKER_02
You should like write a book about it.
4
SPEAKER_02
He hasn t that I know of.
4
SPEAKER_02
This isn t a real experience.
4
SPEAKER_02
This is just imagined.
4
SPEAKER_02
So maybe I m completely wrong.
4
SPEAKER_02
Maybe if I found out I would hate him.
4
SPEAKER_02
I just want everyone to be getting what they want, basically, as long as one thing doesn t come at the cost of another.
4
SPEAKER_02
And that s so relationship dependent, especially in this society.
4
SPEAKER_02
Obviously, we really put monogamy on a pedestal.
4
SPEAKER_02
And we think if you don t adhere to that rule, then you re bad and that you should be shamed.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I see all kinds of different relationships in my life.
4
SPEAKER_02
And my parents have a specific relationship that I see, and I m like, if my dad was cheating, would my mom care?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s more about their relationship than my parents are, too.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it s looking at their relationship, and this is so bad to be making it them, because it s all hypothetical.
4
SPEAKER_02
But let s say she didn t want to have sex with him anymore, and he wanted to have sex.
4
SPEAKER_02
She would be like, yeah, I don t want to have sex with him anymore, but I don t want to get divorced.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think it depends on how hurt your mom would be, too.
4
SPEAKER_00
If she was, like, fawning over him and they were so in love.
4
SPEAKER_02
Like, how much pain is this causing overall is something to sort of pay attention to.
4
SPEAKER_02
And it is very different for each person.
4
SPEAKER_02
And to just think, oh, it s just 100% awful and bad across the board, I do disagree with.
4
SPEAKER_02
Esther Perel has written a whole book about this, and she doesn t say one way is better than the other.
5
SPEAKER_00
But I do think that I m in this Puritan sort of view of it s bad and it s the most awful form of betrayal.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I think that you have a more complex view of it, which I think is accurate of how things work in society.
5
SPEAKER_01
I think it s possible to say, this is my partnership.
5
SPEAKER_01
And this is my priority.
5
SPEAKER_01
This is my family unit.
5
SPEAKER_01
This is my priority.
5
SPEAKER_01
This is always going to come first.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I m not getting everything I need out of this relationship.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so I am going to get the other things I need.
5
SPEAKER_01
If those things need to fall by the wayside for the other unit, they will.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I m not going through this life without getting things I want if I can.
5
SPEAKER_01
And that sounds so selfish.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it is.
5
SPEAKER_00
Esther Perel s view is sometimes an affair can help you stay in a relationship.
5
SPEAKER_00
an affair can actually kind of save your marriage, which again is controversial.
5
SPEAKER_00
But that s kind of what you re saying.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I think that s not what we think when we see a headline of a couple where the guy or the woman cheated on the other person.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s not what we think of.
5
SPEAKER_00
We just think like he or she ruined the relationship and betrayal.
5
SPEAKER_00
But in I think more cases than we are admitting, it does help save the relationship.
5
SPEAKER_00
Again, allows you to stay in that partnership.
5
SPEAKER_01
Esther always says, like, you cannot get everything from one person.
5
SPEAKER_01
That is the reality.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I just so 100% believe it.
5
SPEAKER_01
I ve seen it.
5
SPEAKER_01
I see it all over the place.
5
SPEAKER_01
If you really start looking at relationships like that, it s so obvious you re not going to get all of what you need from one person.
5
SPEAKER_01
And that, you know.
5
SPEAKER_01
Sets you up to fail and cheat, potentially.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
If you go in thinking, well, this person has to be my absolutely everything.
5
SPEAKER_01
Give me 100% of everything I need.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s just not going to happen.
5
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, did we answer it?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, we did.
5
SPEAKER_01
We did.
5
SPEAKER_01
We did.
5
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
5
SPEAKER_01
Should parents contribute a bit of money to their son s weddings?
5
SPEAKER_01
Huh?
5
SPEAKER_01
This is from Hope.
5
SPEAKER_01
My fiance and I have been together for a long time and we are finally getting married.
5
SPEAKER_01
We are excited to finally do it, especially after lots of hounding from his parents.
5
SPEAKER_01
My parents  bride are graciously contributing $10,000, as they did for my older sisters, and I m so grateful to them.
5
SPEAKER_01
My fiance s parents  groom haven t offered anything and we ve been engaged for nine months.
5
SPEAKER_01
I know that it s not an obligation, but they do have the means to help out a bit, even if it s a couple thousand.
5
SPEAKER_01
My fiancé and I don t have a lot of money, and I m sure you know how much weddings cost.
5
SPEAKER_01
And his mom has been asking us for years to hurry up and get married and have babies.
5
SPEAKER_01
She seems to not realize how much these things cost.
5
SPEAKER_01
I want to ask her if she can contribute a bit to help us out, but that seems tacky.
5
SPEAKER_01
I have such strong opinions on this.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh my gosh.
5
SPEAKER_01
Because you re Canadian.
5
SPEAKER_01
You ve been to like one and a half weddings.
5
SPEAKER_01
But 400 funerals.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_01
So I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_01
I wonder if this is a different custom there.
5
SPEAKER_01
But here, the antiquated system we have is the bride s family pays for the wedding.
5
SPEAKER_01
I did not even know this.
5
SPEAKER_01
Is this true?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_01
We didn t.
5
SPEAKER_01
Both sides contributed.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s nice.
5
SPEAKER_01
The tradition is... Yes.
5
SPEAKER_01
That the bride s family pays for the wedding, and then the groom s family pays for the rehearsal dinner.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s like a dowry.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s what it feels like, which is not good.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s child bride vibes.
5
SPEAKER_01
What the heck?
5
SPEAKER_01
What?
5
SPEAKER_01
I know.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s kind of interesting hearing it from a different cultural perspective, because, like, it is crazy.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s wild.
5
SPEAKER_01
So the idea behind it is...
5
SPEAKER_01
If that is true, what else is true?
5
SPEAKER_01
And I m afraid to ask.
5
SPEAKER_01
I will say I do think it s becoming more and more of a equal thing or people contribute.
5
SPEAKER_01
Also, people are getting married much later.
5
SPEAKER_01
As you get married older, you often pay for your own wedding and maybe like parents contribute or family contributes.
5
SPEAKER_01
The thought originally is these are basically kids getting married.
5
SPEAKER_01
Same reason why you give all these gifts because they re starting their life.
5
SPEAKER_01
They don t have any money.
5
SPEAKER_01
You don t have a toaster.
5
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
5
SPEAKER_01
So it s like the community comes together to help.
5
SPEAKER_01
So they don t have the money.
5
SPEAKER_01
So the parents are like obligated to pay.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I am all about in 2023, if people have the means and one family member
5
SPEAKER_00
How would you ask?
5
SPEAKER_00
Maybe I m just too Canadian, but like, why is she the one asking?
5
SPEAKER_00
Why isn t he the one asking his own family?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, for sure.
5
SPEAKER_00
That is weird for her to go to her mother-in-law.
5
SPEAKER_00
His mom.
5
SPEAKER_00
Not to generalize, but with my married friends, sometimes I do see this happening where the son is not empowered to
5
SPEAKER_00
confront or challenge, you know, his mom maybe in a certain way or sees that as a confrontation or challenge.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so then the female partner is kind of put in this awkward position of needing to do that.
5
SPEAKER_00
So I would just say, like, have a conversation with your partner.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then he should definitely be asking his parents and saying, this is how much they re contributing.
5
SPEAKER_00
How much are you contributing?
5
SPEAKER_01
Also in this weird day and age, assuming anyone s contributing, it s all complicated.
5
SPEAKER_00
My parents would laugh at my face.
5
SPEAKER_00
The idea that I would ask my parents, it would be ridiculous to them.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s so funny.
5
SPEAKER_01
No, if you have daughters in America, mostly, again, this is changing, but like, let s say when my age.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, let us know in the comments.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s actually maybe an interesting thing.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, how this has changed.
5
SPEAKER_00
Did you split?
5
SPEAKER_01
I am curious because my age, let s say, so my parents  generation, if you have daughters, like there s a wedding fund.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, my parents, I don t know, because they re not of this culture.
5
SPEAKER_01
Also, I think my mom s parents paid for their wedding.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, sometimes there is also just a discrepancy in how much money people have.
5
SPEAKER_01
And sometimes it s the opposite.
5
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes the bride s family cannot contribute and the groom can.
5
SPEAKER_01
So.
5
SPEAKER_01
They should.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like, if parental support is happening, it should just be what people can contribute and who has the means to.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_00
Proportional to what you can.
5
SPEAKER_00
Proportional.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s all proportional.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_00
Which is hard.
5
SPEAKER_00
Even at really good weddings.
5
SPEAKER_00
I haven t been to a lot of weddings, but they re great.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, I do see the way that the money thing can kind of play into... And even in happy families, money is complicated.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s so complicated.
5
SPEAKER_00
It is.
5
SPEAKER_00
But again, if they can, especially, which is what the letter writer is saying,
5
SPEAKER_01
Ask your fiancé to ask his parents.
5
SPEAKER_01
Now, what if the fiancé says, I don t want to ask, then what?
5
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_00
Don t get married.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
No, we re not saying that.
5
SPEAKER_01
We re not saying that.
5
SPEAKER_01
We can t tell people not to get married.
5
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
5
SPEAKER_01
But if he says, I don t want to ask.
5
SPEAKER_01
If he says, I don t want to ask.
5
SPEAKER_01
No, if he says, I don t want to ask, she says, why do you think that I should then?
5
SPEAKER_01
He might be like, I don t want us to ask them.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s not the responsibility and I don t want us to.
5
SPEAKER_01
Either of us.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh, OK.
5
SPEAKER_01
So then you re having a really small wedding, I guess.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, then maybe you say, then I don t think my parents should contribute either because that doesn t seem fair.
5
SPEAKER_01
So let s elope or go to City Hall.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, because you re going to carry resentment.
5
SPEAKER_00
Again, it s not fair.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s not fair.
5
SPEAKER_00
And caught resentment right in the bud.
5
SPEAKER_00
And if you can tell that there was going to be some like it s going to grow.
5
SPEAKER_00
This is the beginning of your partnership.
5
SPEAKER_00
You want it to be on solid ground and don t let the wedding
5
SPEAKER_00
Again, this is why I don t like weddings.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m like, don t let the party ruin the marriage.
5
SPEAKER_00
Just the party.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s just the party.
5
SPEAKER_01
Best case scenario, the fiance approaches his own parents and says, hopes parents are contributing $10,000 to the wedding.
5
SPEAKER_01
Is there any way you guys could match that so that it feels equal for us?
5
SPEAKER_00
What are you comfortable giving?
5
SPEAKER_00
And then maybe downsize.
5
SPEAKER_00
Your parents can give that same amount and then do a wedding that size.
5
SPEAKER_01
Or, yes, take the money and save it for kids or a house and then go to City Hall.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s cute.
5
SPEAKER_01
Kristen and Dax did City Hall.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s chic.
5
SPEAKER_01
I love it.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s what my parents did.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s what Canadians do.
5
SPEAKER_00
Do it the Canadian way.
5
SPEAKER_00
The Canadian wedding.
5
SPEAKER_00
No, I think a lot of people get big married in Canada, but not me.
5
SPEAKER_01
You said a lot of people don t get married.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s Quebec.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s more country.
5
SPEAKER_01
So do it the Quebec way.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Put a down payment for a little condo.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
All right.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, I think that s going to be it for today.
5
SPEAKER_01
But we ll see you next week.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Bye.