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Hi, Liz.
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Hi.
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I missed you.
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I missed you so much.
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I m dying to know everything.
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Okay, so backstory.
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We haven t seen each other in over a week, which is a long time for us, because Dax and I were in India with Bill Gates.
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We talked about it on the Goldie Hawn episode and we posted on Instagram, but okay.
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You know what s rare?
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Going to India with Bill Gates.
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That is rare.
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You re right.
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No, what s rare for the armchair umbrella is our recording schedule normally lends itself to synced being recorded after Monday s fact check, right?
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What ends up happening is you and I are talking about something that often I ve already talked about, but this is a very fast turnaround for us.
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It s like our fastest ever.
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And so in fact, we re going to be talking about it.
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Wow, we are doing breaking news.
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We re breaking it.
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Wow, it s like we re the junior, or not you, but I m like an intern at the company and then suddenly like something happens with the schedule and I m the 9 p.m.
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anchor.
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You re the president.
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Yeah, I m the president.
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That s exciting.
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So what is the breaking news?
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What happened?
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I didn t hear that much from you in terms of what was happening.
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There were no IG posts, so I m in the dark.
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Well, I would have updated you more.
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But as we were just talking about as we entered here, the time.
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So it s 9 a.m.
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here.
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It is 1030 p.m.
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tomorrow in India.
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The time is so off of the U.S.
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schedule.
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So I m a little wonky, but I m I feel OK.
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So we were invited to go with Bill on one of his basically like check-in trips with the foundation and Gates Ventures.
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They have two.
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And so they do a ton of work in India and a ton of work in Africa.
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And he goes and checks in and meets with people.
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And we were sort of just like flies on the wall with him just following
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We found ourselves in some really crazy situations, some tables where we were just like,
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How are we here?
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How d they let us in?
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They don t understand why we re here, like all these Indian people.
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But we got to do a lot of really amazing stuff.
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We went to a revitalized slum.
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That was one of my favorite parts because they re doing a whole project there where they re taking these slums and giving land ownership to the people.
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They re sort of letting the women from the community run it.
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And it s pretty amazing what they ve done.
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So the whole trip was awesome.
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We ll be talking about it forever.
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But for me, I had a lot of anxiety going into the trip.
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I think more than I let myself feel for multiple reasons, mainly being I ve avoided
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this part of my identity for so long.
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And yeah, I was like, what s it going to be like when I m there?
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What am I going to feel?
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You know, my grandfather just passed away.
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How s that going to impact my feelings toward it?
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Whatever.
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I just was like, what is it going to be?
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And we ve talked about this on the fact check, so I feel comfortable saying it, but I felt a little anxious because Dax was so excited going in.
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And
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I sort of took that on as, okay, he s so excited.
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His expectations are at 100 and nothing can meet an expectation like that.
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So then when we get there, he s going to be disappointed.
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And then I m going to feel that.
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I m going to feel defensive over this.
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history of mine and identity and home that I don t even feel connected to at all.
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So it s very, it s very confusing.
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And so like going in, I already knew that.
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And I was sort of working through that with my therapist and trying to separate his feelings from my feelings.
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Anyway, we get there and we land and we re going to this like palace basically to stay.
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But immediately when you
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drive in, you re passing so much poverty already.
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And then you get to this palace.
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It s so stark, the contrast between the opulence and the poverty.
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But immediately, all I was thinking about was here in L.A.
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and how we re like on that track.
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It was very startling.
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Anyway, all to say, I left feeling very proud that I came from there.
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It s so vibrant and the people are so awesome.
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It s a very special place.
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And I sort of let myself feel that and I feel proud.
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I do.
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It was a surprising outcome for me.
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Like, you know, even like little things where we re at the buffet and I m transporting back to me being 12 or something, let s say.
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If I was with friends at an Indian restaurant somehow, like we landed there, which I would have never allowed, but if that happened, I would have acted like I didn t know what anything was.
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or like I didn t know how to pronounce anything or I didn t like, I would be very separate from it.
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I m like you, I don t know.
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And so it was weird to be there and like, you know, see all these things and just start embracing like, no, I know.
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I know how to say that.
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I know what this is.
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I know what it s made of.
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And it s like, I m 36.
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It s crazy how long this is taking.
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But I think it was really, it was really good for me.
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I mean, I have so many things I want to ask you.
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Like, it seems like you are connecting with the incredibly positive things about your identity.
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And before, for many, you know,
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racism probably and xenophobia and sort of the environment that you were raised in.
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You got the message that there were a lot of negative things and that those negative things you needed to hide or that those negative things somehow were like a threat to your acceptance and connection with others.
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Do you wish that you had had more opportunities to connect with the positive earlier in your life or are you glad it s happening now?
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The easy answer is yes, of course.
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I think I thought that at some point, like, oh, man, if we had come earlier, maybe I would have had this experience earlier.
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If I m being honest, I don t think that s true.
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I think it required all things happening at once, like for my own personal
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confidence to be at a place to match that experience.
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Because I feel pretty good as a person at this point.
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And that took a long time, right?
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So I think if I was even in my 20s, I don t know that I would have been able to embrace it in the same way that I did just because I didn t feel worthy of it.
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What do you mean worthy of it?
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I didn t feel worthy as a person, and I was still trying to gain worth from everyone around me, as opposed to just knowing it.
0
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Okay, so there was two things going on.
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Being close to this culture, so you feel sort of rejected by others, but then you also felt like it was foreign to you, and so you couldn t partake in your own culture?
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Is that what you mean?
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I didn t feel good enough about myself to be able to see any positives.
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Oh, got it.
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Got it.
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Got it.
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Whereas now I do feel good about myself enough.
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I mean, depending on the day, I guess, but enough so that I could really see it.
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So I feel like Dax
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saw a lot of the differences, right?
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Which we all do when we go to foreign lands.
0
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The culture is so old and rich.
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We think of Europe as old.
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India and Africa are where we all came from.
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The history is so old.
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And yeah, as we do when we go anywhere, you notice the things that are different.
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So he was noticing a ton of differences.
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But I was really noticing a lot of sames.
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It was kind of different experiences for us in that way.
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And I think obviously me as an Indian woman going to India, I m going to have a different experience than anyone else on that trip.
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So there was this little girl with her grandma, like, walking down the street, and she was just, like, being so annoying to her grandma.
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I was like, yeah, we re all just so annoying to our grandmas.
0
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Like, that s what we do, you know?
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All I could see was how
0
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It s so cheesy and so cliche, but we re the same.
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People are the same.
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They re in different environments.
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They have different jobs.
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They have different ways of living their lives, but it s the same ultimately, which I find very comforting.
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Did you ever know someone who was South Asian who also felt the same way that you did, and did you ever talk about it with them?
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Were these conversations that you
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with your family or not at all?
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No.
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And definitely not anyone, no friends or anything.
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Because again, that was the whole point.
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I was not them.
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So I wouldn t have had anything to talk about with them because I had a different experience than them.
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And I had this ability to do that when I was young because
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my mom grew up here, that I was like, well, I m different, because I m like some generations away, even though that was a big stretch.
1
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I mean, it must have felt like lonely growing up like that.
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Yeah.
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I can only see that in retrospect.
1
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Like when I was in it, it was just, it was second nature.
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It was just out of survival.
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It was just happening.
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I don t feel like I was making any deliberate choices necessarily.
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So I can only see loneliness in retrospect because I also wasn t lonely at all.
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I had really robust friendships that I still have.
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So yes and no.
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Lonely internally, perhaps, because I was negating this big part.
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I don t actually think lonely is the word.
1
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I think it s more like...
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There s always a tension.
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Like something you need to hide?
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Yeah.
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That s a lot to carry, especially as a child.
1
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You re different from your white friends, but then you re also different from your family.
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And so you re not at home with any group.
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And so that s why I m asking, yeah, were there other friends that were like, oh, me too, right?
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And I m sure even you having been able to talk about this with a friend of, you know, again, I remember reading, this is so random, but like I needed to get credit.
1
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for my last semester in college, and I took this high-level, really hard Asian-American literature class.
1
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Oh, wow.
1
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But I learned so much in it, and I read a lot about stories about children hiding their lunches.
1
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I m sure so many people relate so much to what you re saying.
1
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sometimes it was at age 36 that they finally started to shed these things.
1
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes it s later even, earlier, right?
1
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Like it s all these stories even beyond ethnicity, like people coming out when they re 80, right?
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Yeah.
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So I think these stories are so beautiful and so important.
1
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But yeah, I m also like, oh my God, I must have been
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Like, I wish I could have been your friend.
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It seems like you had great friends.
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You didn t need me, but I wish, like, I don t know.
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But if you were my friend and you were like, so tell me about your Indian-ness.
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I d have been like, you re not my friend anymore.
1
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Right.
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I wouldn t do that.
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I don t, I mean, whatever.
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I was probably a fucking idiot like every other kid.
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But I wonder if a white person, you know, had been around you and had been like, wow, that s so cool.
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Wow, that s so cool never happened.
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So yes, you re right that might have made a difference Although it s hard for me to it s no one s fault because I didn t even give anyone the opportunity to do that But yeah, you probably would have been like, oh, that s so cool.
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And then that would have been nice I Aspire to have been that kid, you know, but I
1
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And did you have friends over, or was that something you kind of avoided?
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I did, but I much preferred going.
1
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And I would say, like, 90-10, I would go to people s houses.
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Every now and then, people would come over, but it was rare.
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And also, I could get away with it.
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because it wasn t so prevalent.
1
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Because maybe, like, if I grew up in a pretty strict Indian household, or every dinner was Indian food, or the house was decorated in a very specific way, that would have been harder for me.
1
SPEAKER_01
It was almost like I was able to do it because of this weird middle ground.
1
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Because my mom grew up here, there was so much American-ness already in there that I just, like, leaned all the way and got, you know, beanbag chair and...
1
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Lava lamps and all the things that are so American.
1
SPEAKER_00
Specific.
1
SPEAKER_00
So specific.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I miss lava lamps.
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Oh man, skincare.
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I ve been on a real ride with skincare lately.
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And the thing about it is you feel like you have it figured out and then so quickly, there can be a hormonal change or you travel or pollution, you know, whatever.
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Exactly, stress.
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And your skin can just go haywire.
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And if you re not using products that are like legit, for me anyway, I m so much more at a risk of like having a big breakout.
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So I really like Curology because these are personalized prescription skincare products, and they re made for you.
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Was it healing for Dax, your friend, to be so excited?
1
SPEAKER_00
Or at this point, do you not need that?
1
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You mean when we got there?
1
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Yeah, just about India in general and getting that kind of, wow, that s awesome that you didn t get as a kid.
1
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That s a good question.
1
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I guess I didn t need it as much, which is also telling and huge.
1
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It was interesting, though, because we ve talked about this a lot, like when you talked about it with your grandma, when I m at restaurants and stuff and my dad is ordering and I m always like a little like…
1
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Even though he totally knows what to say, but there s like this second guessing, and then he points, and I feel like I have to speak for him, and it s always this thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
It was when we were at a restaurant, I just remember specifically having this like moment because Dax was trying to order something, and then I like stepped in and said it.
1
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And then I was like,
1
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Again, it s like, where do you belong?
1
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When I m here, I m speaking for my dad.
1
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I understand this.
1
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When I m there, I understand that.
1
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It s a weird man with no country thing.
1
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But I ve never felt like a man with no country because this is my country, and I ve never second-guessed or thought twice about it.
1
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But it was pretty profound.
1
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I m really glad.
1
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And that s none of that has anything to do with what we were doing.
1
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I mean, a little bit, obviously, but had nothing to do with Bill or any of that.
1
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That was just like this personal journey that was sort of happening on the side, which was good.
1
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And did you talk to your parents about it?
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Not yet.
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I have to call them.
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They ll be so happy.
1
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They will be.
1
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It reminds me of also the way that a lot of black people talk about, I mean, I think Trevor Noah talks about this maybe in his book, of just first I was like, oh, I m with the white kids and they embrace me.
1
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But then, oh, later the black kids were embracing me and I was like, oh, I m black.
1
SPEAKER_00
Again, as the world also just becomes more and more mixed.
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Mixed.
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Yeah.
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I don t know what the right term is.
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You know, blended blended.
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Uh, I think this is this is a reality for more and more people and being open about it is really brave and really important and I feel like this is the beginning.
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I kind of do I do too.
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I don t know what but Also, like i ve always said this is not pc at all, but i ve said like i m not so far like i m not attracted to
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Indian men really because it feels so familial, which is true.
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But then when I was there, because everyone s Indian, you can t say every single person around you feels like your family, like they don t.
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Because here, if you re around an Indian person, there s enough shared stuff that it feels familial because they know the things that your family knows, right?
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And nobody else does.
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But there, every single
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person knows those things, so you can t separate it out.
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And there s one guy that was so attractive.
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You had a crush in India?
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A little bit.
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I was hyper aware that I, I don t know if I would have felt that here or not.
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Hard for me to know, I guess.
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I think this will be a great essay in your book.
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I ve started, I ve written a little bit about the experience.
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I don t want to keep going on it.
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Okay, so tell me about your week.
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Not as interesting, really.
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I thought a lot about you.
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I went to New York.
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How long were you there?
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I was there for like a week.
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Wow.
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Yeah.
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I just got back on Saturday, and then I m going to Seattle later.
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I know.
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I m like moving around.
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And then we re going to South by.
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Yeah, we are.
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So that s exciting.
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SPEAKER_00
And we re going to have fun at South by Southwest.
2
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Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
Do you have your spreadsheet of parties?
2
SPEAKER_00
I am— I know that it s not— It didn t work for us the last time, so I m exploring something different.
2
SPEAKER_00
What are you exploring?
2
SPEAKER_00
I feel like I might send you like one party invite because I feel like I overwhelmed you and then I didn t get the results I wanted, which is us going to a party.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I m being a little bit more chill about it.
2
SPEAKER_00
But will you commit to considering going to a party with me?
2
SPEAKER_01
Here s the honest truth.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s a pretty tight sketch for me, but I ll consider it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
But you know, I also want to go to a little shopping, and I want us to go to breakfast.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
Last time we had an epic breakfast.
2
SPEAKER_00
We did.
2
SPEAKER_00
It was— I don t remember the name, but— Me neither.
2
SPEAKER_00
Shout out.
2
SPEAKER_00
Shout out some restaurant that we really like.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think we ate, like, deep-fried cinnamon rolls.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, there was just, like, a decadent menu.
2
SPEAKER_00
Also, on my airplane ride, I watched Anatomy of a Fall because you ve been telling me about it.
2
SPEAKER_00
The only problem is that we landed— No.
2
SPEAKER_00
Liz.
2
SPEAKER_00
There was a problem with my screen and then I had to go back and restart it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so then I just was like, I ll read this book.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then I plowed through this book, which you know, I m pretty proud of myself.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then I was like, okay, now I can watch Anatomy of a Fallen.
2
SPEAKER_00
I just I don t know what happens.
2
SPEAKER_00
You don t know like how it ends?
2
SPEAKER_00
No.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh no.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s a huge…
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, but it s great.
2
SPEAKER_00
I love it.
2
SPEAKER_00
You were so right and then the kid with this I m just like I understand now what you were like, you re gonna like this and you re gonna hate No, is it good that I didn t see the end?
2
SPEAKER_00
No, no.
2
SPEAKER_01
No, I just mean like cuz you saw enough of it that I
2
SPEAKER_01
The movie s so good.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s so small in a lot of ways.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s a small story.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I told you, I almost turned it off multiple times because it is so stressful.
2
SPEAKER_01
And what is going on with the justice system?
2
SPEAKER_01
I hate them.
2
SPEAKER_01
I know.
2
SPEAKER_01
And yes, this kid that s getting sort of dragged into it.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s what I mean about hate, like hating it because it s just like, why?
2
SPEAKER_01
It s infuriating.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s such a good look at
2
SPEAKER_01
relationships and how what goes on in a relationship can be misconstrued so quickly from the outside.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
Or that one person s version of events, like with the therapist, he s just like casting her as this villain and she s like, yeah, any therapist would cast the other person as a villain.
2
SPEAKER_00
Just it s this constant thought that I have of just like, I think it was a tweet, the worst person that you know is being told that they re enough by their therapist in therapy right now.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right?
2
SPEAKER_00
I hate that.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s psychotic.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s a story where you clearly, according to yourself and all your friends, were the victim, where their therapist is like, you are the victim.
2
SPEAKER_01
I know.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s just, I can t stand that.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, me and you talked about this recently at our Galentines, how there are events in our life that are watershed moments that have impacted from that day forward, the trajectory of our lives, these huge,
2
SPEAKER_01
things, like, you know, let s take the Dairy Queen, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s no chance in hell.
2
SPEAKER_01
He even has an iota of memory of that day.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, he doesn t know that that happened.
2
SPEAKER_01
And yet it has impacted my entire life.
2
SPEAKER_01
And we are that for somebody, probably many, many, many people.
2
SPEAKER_01
We had a bad day and we said a thing or did a thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that person s trajectory, like, took a left turn.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it doesn t even exist in our memory.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s terrifying.
2
SPEAKER_00
The positive is also true.
2
SPEAKER_00
There is a person out there.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like your Uber driver.
2
SPEAKER_00
My Uber driver.
2
SPEAKER_00
Which one?
2
SPEAKER_00
That significantly changed the course of my life in a positive way and they don t know it.
2
SPEAKER_00
So it s important to remember both truths.
2
SPEAKER_00
It works both ways.
2
SPEAKER_00
But that is terrifying and that is 100, like we ruined someone s life for sure.
2
SPEAKER_00
Probably more than one person.
2
SPEAKER_00
How do we right this wrong?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know what to do about it.
2
SPEAKER_00
If we ruined your life, write it.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, don t.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, should people write in?
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I guess that would be a way.
2
SPEAKER_01
No, I can t.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t think I can handle that right now.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m on my epiphany.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m having my own epiphanies.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m on another route right now.
2
SPEAKER_01
Please don t tell me if I ruined your life.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m sorry if I did.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, unless you suck.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s complex.
2
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes.
2
SPEAKER_00
Again, I have had my life ruined by events that I m glad happened to, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
2
SPEAKER_00
So there are instances where you get called out or you get confronted or challenged in a way.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, there s someone in my life currently I know for certain who thinks I ve really wronged them, and I know I didn t.
2
SPEAKER_01
But how can, is it fair to say I know I didn t?
2
SPEAKER_01
Because in this person s reality, I did.
2
SPEAKER_01
So what s true?
2
SPEAKER_00
It s wild.
2
SPEAKER_00
The way that reality is completely created and crafted and subjective.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like the book I was reading on the plane actually is like,
2
SPEAKER_00
I think it s called How to Change Someone s Mind, and it s this entire book about how to persuade people, and through the context of trying to make them see— Wait, is this a super communication book?
2
SPEAKER_01
What does that mean?
2
SPEAKER_00
What does that mean?
2
SPEAKER_00
Is it about super communication?
2
SPEAKER_01
Like how to be a super communicator?
2
SPEAKER_00
No, it s not one of those weird, like, influence people and manipulate them, but it s called How to Change— How to Change Your Mind is Michael Pollan, so it s not that.
2
SPEAKER_00
How to Change Someone s Mind, or How Minds Change.
2
SPEAKER_01
David McRae.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s not really a self-help thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s more the science of it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And one of the big things that he sort of talks about is just that even someone who believes something so different—my go-to is just on abortion rights, which is something that s important to me.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s still very difficult for me, but if I come into conversations with people with that perspective that like, you re either dumb or evil, no one s going to like, engage with me, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Or change their mind, which that is actually the point.
2
SPEAKER_00
So he talks about this like, hierarchy where the first step is you have to connect, and then you have to communicate, and then they change, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
So like, you have to come into conversations, not trying to change someone s mind, but actually just trying to connect with them.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes, so we had Charles Duhigg on armchair, and he was amazing, and he, that s why I was saying super communication, because that s part of what his book was about, but it s this.
2
SPEAKER_00
But it s hard, and especially in your case, where it s a personal thing that s happening, not that abortion is just some issue, but obviously all of these things, we have personal connections too, but it s so hard when you re in it with someone, and they just have a completely different
2
SPEAKER_00
story about what happened.
2
SPEAKER_01
I guess for me, the takeaway is I can t control this person s narrative.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I don t need to try to change their mind because I feel happy with my decisions.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s all I can do in this life.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, I can t control other people s opinions of my decisions.
2
SPEAKER_00
You might never get that recognition or acknowledgement.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I won t.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
This person will die with that opinion of me, and that s gonna have to be okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay, so what parties are you gonna go to?
2
SPEAKER_01
Or what party do you want me to go to?
2
SPEAKER_00
I need to look up my spreadsheet.
2
SPEAKER_00
No one has ever had a spreadsheet of parties?
2
SPEAKER_00
I think of parties as very specific.
2
SPEAKER_01
Do you like parties?
2
SPEAKER_01
Not really.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, yes, if it s a small party, like a dinner party, or a party of people I know, I love parties.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I don t love a party with a bunch of strangers.
2
SPEAKER_00
I prefer a party to a dinner party.
2
SPEAKER_00
You do?
2
SPEAKER_00
I know.
2
SPEAKER_00
Maybe I ll outgrow it.
2
SPEAKER_00
But there s something so exciting about a party.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re like, all these people, all these strangers.
2
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_01
Another Pisces Virgo difference.
2
SPEAKER_00
But you don t like small talk.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, but that s not what I m going to do at a party.
2
SPEAKER_00
What do you do?
2
SPEAKER_00
I m there to drink and dance.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s something super fun about connecting with people in the moment.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, yeah, dancing it out, having a moment at the bar, and then never speaking to that person ever again.
2
SPEAKER_00
I also loved, you know, dinner parties are great too, but parties, parties, and I also feel like they don t happen anymore.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like parties, parties are so rare at our age.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, they are.
2
SPEAKER_01
People don t do it anymore.
2
SPEAKER_01
So have you been to a party since you stopped drinking?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes, I have.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you still enjoy it?
2
SPEAKER_00
I still enjoy it, which is kind of exciting.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s always a moment at the beginning where I kind of wish I could have a drink.
2
SPEAKER_00
And okay, I will be honest.
2
SPEAKER_00
Actually, I have something to confess.
3
SPEAKER_01
We love confession.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I have decided... And by the way, I hope I didn t do the annoying thing where I was like, I m sober now.
3
SPEAKER_01
No, you didn t.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay, great.
3
SPEAKER_01
I did stop drinking, but I ve decided that I m still gonna drink on dates.
3
SPEAKER_01
It is too hard.
3
SPEAKER_01
It is rough out there.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I did go on a date in New York.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I did have an old fashion.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I thought about you.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was like, remember when we would have old fashion?
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, it was such a winter classic.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was.
3
SPEAKER_01
And maybe I ll have one with you.
3
SPEAKER_01
Maybe I ll make an exception.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was going to say, because now I m jealous.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it doesn t feel fair that these, like, random guys
3
SPEAKER_00
get to have a drink with you, and I don t, just because I m an old standby.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay, well, maybe I can make another exception.
3
SPEAKER_01
A list of exceptions.
3
SPEAKER_01
Maybe we can have an old-fashioned this winter.
3
SPEAKER_00
This winter?
3
SPEAKER_01
That s so long from now.
3
SPEAKER_01
Aren t we still kind of in a winter?
3
SPEAKER_00
No, I think it s technically spring.
3
SPEAKER_00
No.
3
SPEAKER_00
Dude, that s because the groundhog came out.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s not.
3
SPEAKER_00
How did they come out?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes, I think that is.
3
SPEAKER_00
March 19th.
3
SPEAKER_00
On my birthday.
3
SPEAKER_01
Spring baby.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it ends on my birthday, June 20th.
3
SPEAKER_00
Wow, so sick.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay, so March 19th.
3
SPEAKER_00
So it s still winter.
3
SPEAKER_00
Wait, your birthday s actually on the 19th.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
So, oh my God, wow.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay, so we have to celebrate spring and Liz all at the same time.
3
SPEAKER_00
I know, it s a lot.
3
SPEAKER_00
This is exciting.
3
SPEAKER_00
Support for Syncd comes from Rocket Money.
3
SPEAKER_00
I had this, another one.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, it happened again.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I don t, okay, this is a new one.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t know if anyone can relate.
3
SPEAKER_01
I literally don t understand what this charge is for.
3
SPEAKER_01
I know I m getting charged monthly, $6.99, and I don t even know how to cancel it because I don t know what it is.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
Rocket Money is so necessary.
3
SPEAKER_01
These are the times we re living through where they re just making money off of our inability to cancel or to keep up.
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To keep up.
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SPEAKER_00
It s really true because Rocket Money is awesome.
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It s a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills.
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We love this.
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They even will get you a refund for the last couple of months of wasted money.
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SPEAKER_01
So even if you realize like, oh my God, I ve been paying for this thing for like four or five months, they will do the work for you.
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Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash sync.
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SPEAKER_01
That s rocketmoney.com slash S-Y-N-C, rocketmoney.com slash sync.
3
SPEAKER_00
Synced is sponsored by BetterHelp.
3
SPEAKER_00
We love therapy so much.
3
SPEAKER_00
We do.
3
SPEAKER_00
Necessarily.
3
SPEAKER_00
I find it so necessary.
3
SPEAKER_00
You find it so necessary.
3
SPEAKER_00
You just came from therapy.
3
SPEAKER_00
I just came from therapy.
3
SPEAKER_00
Just rolled right in here.
3
SPEAKER_00
You literally just did.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I was thinking about this the other day.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was talking to my parents about therapy, and when I was telling them, I was having like the real-time realization of how much I ve actually gained, who I was when I started therapy versus who I am now.
3
SPEAKER_00
Completely different person.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
And therapists just will make links between things in your life that you would have never thought had any connection.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I just keep running into people who are really looking for therapists and moving to a new city or starting a new job.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, go to BetterHelp.
3
SPEAKER_01
You can find the right therapist for you no matter where you live.
3
SPEAKER_01
All online.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s all online.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it s just so convenient, so helpful for people.
3
SPEAKER_01
especially in this day and age where things are pretty crazy.
3
SPEAKER_00
Learn to make time for what makes you happy with BetterHelp.
3
SPEAKER_00
Visit betterhelp.com slash synced today to get 10% off your first month.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash synced, S-Y-N-C-E-D.
3
SPEAKER_00
Are you excited about your birthday?
3
SPEAKER_01
How do you feel?
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t love 37 as a number.
3
SPEAKER_01
So if anyone can tell me good things that happened when they were 27.
3
SPEAKER_01
I feel 27.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s actually the truth.
3
SPEAKER_01
Sure.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s a problem.
3
SPEAKER_01
I feel like there s an error.
3
SPEAKER_01
I do have imposter syndrome.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m like, if people know I m 37, they re going to expect things from me that I will not be able to deliver on.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that scares me a little bit.
3
SPEAKER_01
Birthdays are getting hard.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, they didn t used to be hard.
3
SPEAKER_01
And past 35, I ve noticed they re a little tougher.
3
SPEAKER_01
Do you find them?
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, it s only two, but yeah, this sort of like, oh.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it hasn t hit me too much, but I think you re right.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like after 35, you start feeling like, ooh, we re getting to 40, but I don t have a problem with 40.
3
SPEAKER_00
In fact, okay, I ve had some of the opposite feelings sort of recently where sometimes I think,
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God, I m only 36.
3
SPEAKER_00
I have a lot longer to work.
3
SPEAKER_00
And how am I going to fill all that time?
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, what am I going to do for that long?
3
SPEAKER_00
Will I be able to work for that long?
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, will there be opportunities for that long?
3
SPEAKER_00
I have that fear of, oh God, I m not that old and have a lot more time in the workforce, and I m worried that the opportunities won t match that time.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s real.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I feel that way.
3
SPEAKER_01
We re in an economy where that s a common feeling, and it s a rational feeling.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I like that framing.
3
SPEAKER_01
A lot of my friends are older, which helps when I go, they re like, you re literally a baby, you know?
3
SPEAKER_01
But then I also look at women who are 37 and like, I feel a mismatch.
3
SPEAKER_01
Do you?
3
SPEAKER_01
And maybe it s because we don t have kids.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think that s actually probably the main issue.
3
SPEAKER_01
It just keeps you young in a way.
3
SPEAKER_01
And again, the way that I live my life, it isn t that different than when I was 27.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, obviously so many things are different.
3
SPEAKER_01
I feel really young.
3
SPEAKER_01
I feel like I even look younger than when I was 27, which is funny.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you look super young.
3
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
3
SPEAKER_01
Not that there s anything wrong with looking your age.
3
SPEAKER_01
Of course.
3
SPEAKER_01
But again, the number doesn t make sense.
3
SPEAKER_01
The number doesn t match.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I think part of that is just because when you re super young, like a teenager, we just have a warped sense of age, and we think something s much older than it is in the grand scheme.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, we felt, well, when we were 16, we felt like full-blown adults.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
Or even 12.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was like, I am a full human being.
3
SPEAKER_01
Get out of my way.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, there s like this inflection point.
3
SPEAKER_00
You never feel young.
3
SPEAKER_00
where you feel old up into a point and then at some point it switches and you feel young forever.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right.
3
SPEAKER_00
Weird.
3
SPEAKER_00
At what age do you think that switches?
3
SPEAKER_01
I felt young when I was in my early 20s.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, I remember people were kind of impressed if you do anything.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I remember feeling, when I first moved to New York, like I remember feeling young for what I had like, how people perceived what I d done.
3
SPEAKER_01
But even then, like, I don t think you ever feel young.
3
SPEAKER_00
I didn t feel young when I was 11.
3
SPEAKER_00
But you re feeling young now, I m saying.
3
SPEAKER_00
It turns.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, I felt old in my 20s.
3
SPEAKER_00
I felt mature and wise.
3
SPEAKER_00
And in retrospect, that s all wrong, like completely wrong.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I felt it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then now I feel young.
3
SPEAKER_00
Maybe 35.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s such a big year.
3
SPEAKER_00
Do men have that?
3
SPEAKER_00
No, as we know, race to 35, ding, ding, ding.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s a really pivotal year for women as our eggs drop off the face of the earth.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, we have biological stuff we re dealing with.
3
SPEAKER_00
But men also have a biological clog, but they don t get told about it.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s not the same level of drop-off.
3
SPEAKER_00
We know 80-year-old men who are having children.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, but it has huge complications that can happen.
3
SPEAKER_00
There can be, but an 80-year-old woman cannot have it.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I guess I shouldn t say 100%.
3
SPEAKER_00
Maybe there s been one time in history.
3
SPEAKER_01
But it s a different level.
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, you can ejaculate, but that doesn t mean that you re fertile or that your fertility levels are going to be as high.
3
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I m shocked sometimes when I ll be on a nap or something like that and this guy s like, I m 42 and don t know if I want kids.
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I m like, you better fucking figure it out or freeze your sperm because you re not going to be able to wonder.
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Again, I think that men are given a lot more of a luxury
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to ponder about it and to not feel pressed when their bodies actually do have a biological clock.
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It s not as stark.
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Dating men would be easier if they also felt that same kind of pressure.
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I think there s a mismatch a little bit sometimes at our age.
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Some guys think they have more time than they do.
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You re talking about sperm health, which is, yeah.
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Okay.
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Well, let s do some questions.
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Okay.
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Should I tell my friend not to marry that guy?
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This is from Anastasia.
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My friend was in a terrible marriage and got divorced a couple years ago.
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All her friends, myself included, knew it wouldn t go well, but we all kept quiet and focused on being supportive of our friend.
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The divorce wasn t even filed, and she was hanging around this other guy, and I told her I hoped she would give herself the time to
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process everything.
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She didn t.
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Immediately, this guy moved in.
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Every time I ve been around him, he s been angry with her.
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She painted her business a color he didn t like.
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She made plans with me and didn t include him.
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And I got some weird vibes that he s the type of guy who would lay hands on someone.
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Just a vibe without evidence.
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I don t want to be around him.
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SPEAKER_01
Anyway, they recently got engaged and I want to say something.
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Can I?
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She does not seem happy and I ve known her since we were four years old.
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Oh, this is hard.
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It s hard.
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I think I would have a conversation and say, hey, before this marriage, I just want to make sure you re really happy because I ve known you for so long and I wonder.
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I think it s simple as that.
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In this book I was reading, they re like, therapists don t ever tell you... I mean, good therapists, unless you re in a dangerous situation, I think, they ll never be like, you shouldn t do that.
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But they will ask you the right questions that will make you... Because if someone else tells you, this guy s terrible for you, your immediate reaction is going to be being defensive and doubling down because someone s telling you that you re wrong.
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And no one wants to be wrong, especially for something that s as important
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Especially if she s already been divorced.
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Yeah, she s going to be very defensive around this.
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Yeah, she doesn t want to be Ross.
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Like, you don t want to make that mistake.
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It sucks.
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So, I actually wouldn t focus on what you think about him or, again, be negative about him.
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Because, again, then she will be defensive or, again, won t trust you because she loves him, right?
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Obviously, they re engaged, so it means you are on a timeline.
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But this might be like a multiple conversation situation.
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And yeah, asking her questions.
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I mean, again, like I remember my therapist doing this, the guy I was dating while we were recording Race to 35.
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This person was so clear in how they weren t, you know... Reciprocating.
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Yes.
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And weren t like... I mean, they really... I think there was a lot of affection, but they were like, I will be on tour.
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I will not be able...
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They re really clear with you.
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They were very clear.
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And I go to my therapist like, so I don t know why he s like using this.
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Like I came in with my whole analogy of like why he was and she was like, no, no, he s telling you.
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Like all she did was kind of repeat back the situation and say like, and is this what you want?
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Because then again, you go into delusion.
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You re like, well, I can make this work and like actually be really nice for all these.
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And it s like, no, no, let s go through the day to day in 10 years, like in two years.
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What does it look like with someone who s upset because you re hanging out with your friend, with someone who criticizes you?
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So yeah, I would just be curious, not go in with trying to change her mind or trying to argue with her about it, but sort of get her to see what you re seeing.
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But I also, for you, if you don t want to be around him, then don t be around him.
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But you don t tell her.
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You don t have to say, like, hey, if you go through with this, just so you know, I m not going to come around.
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Like, don t do that.
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But just put up your boundary.
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Like, if she does get married, you request, like, hanging out one-on-one with her.
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It s so hard.
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So many of us have been in this position where we see, we can just see like, ugh, why?
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I think this is a separate case, but I think it s important to remember that what we want out of someone is not necessarily what everyone else wants out of someone.
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And we project a lot of our own wants and needs on other people and they could be completely different.
4
100%.
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I ve been thinking about this a lot.
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I have friends who are in relationships and like there s one particular friend with like,
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The guy cheated on her and like I had to be there for her in that moment and not tell her to make the decision that I would make.
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Right.
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And they re still together and she s really happy.
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Like, you know what I mean?
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Yeah.
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And if I had inserted myself into that decision, and again, there are things that I can t tolerate that she wouldn t tolerate.
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Exactly.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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So you re right.
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It s also important to not, yeah, even though you do want to make decisions for your friends and you care about them so much.
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I mean, I relate so much.
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Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Okay, let s see.
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Oh, okay.
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This is from Nick.
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Yes.
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How to respond to female friends who regularly make broad negative generalizations about men as a man.
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I often find myself in the company of women who regularly make sweeping negative statements about men as a whole.
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It is usually joking such as kill all men type stuff, but it also regularly dips into uncomfortable generalizations about how men think and act, often in the realm of men being dumb or sex obsessed or other generally very patronizing things.
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These friends have largely had significant traumatic interactions with men.
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I myself have had my fair share of traumatic sexual experiences with women,
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So I understand their thought process on a very personal level, though it does not make these things any less hurtful.
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I am, quote, one of the good ones to them, which I feel is problematic on its own.
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I ve tried to bring up these feelings before but get shut down as I, quote, don t understand the danger they feel all the time around men.
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I just want to know how or if I should continue to bring up how this makes me feel as someone who happens to be male.
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Day one listener of Stinked and lover of Race to 35.
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Thank you so much for making this podcast in such an honest and unashamed way.
4
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It has opened up such an amazing view into how someone with experiences so opposite of my own may interact with the world.
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Thank you for listening, Nick.
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Yes.
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We do really, really appreciate it.
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Man, I m mixed on this.
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Oh.
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Because I get it.
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It must be so annoying as a man, like to just be lumped in with a bunch of negative stereotypes, just like any stereotype on earth, no one wants to be lumped into.
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So I do really get that.
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But also I think there s a reality
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that men can t understand a lot of the dangers.
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And I totally respect that you have had bad interactions with women, and it s not that men are bad and women are good.
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Like, I think that s often how it s portrayed, and that is not true.
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Women are just as complicated, do as crazy of stuff, so it shouldn t be positioned like that.
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But it s true that women walk around with a very specific level of danger around men that men don t have, just in a physical sense.
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Yeah, but kill all men, right?
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Yeah, that s rough.
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I think that that s a, if we re to give them completely the benefit of the doubt and say that s a valid emotion to feel when you re dealing with a traumatic experience or again, you re in the thick of it with a guy or several guys and it all adds up, but know your audience and maybe saying that to a guy who s actually not
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Also, like, kill all men, like, no, because you re friends with someone who s— You have an example right here.
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Exactly.
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So, say that to a girlfriend.
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There s a time and a place for those kinds of comments, and it s also not helpful to indulge in those comments.
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Like, it doesn t help me when I have an upsetting experience to be like, well, all men are— It s like, that s not true.
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It s feeding my delusion to feel like I m entitled to say that, and then people are enabling me to believe that.
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And it s a self-fulfilling prophecy, like the more you think it, the more you see it.
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But for him, the only thing I would say that you could say is just like, hey, is there any way we can not talk about this?
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It bums me out.
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And don t get in a debate with them, because that s where it will get tough.
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And they ll say like, well, and you don t understand, and don t engage in the debate here.
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You just speak vulnerably with your feelings, which is like, this type of conversation bums me out.
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Can we pivot and talk about something else?
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I think that s the really only way to handle it.
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And you said you ve tried, so these women aren t the ones that aren t going to probably adjust.
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Do you want to be friends?
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I mean, I think this applies to so many things.
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I have people in my life that can be very negative and be extremely pessimistic about what s happening in the world.
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And then I ll come out of a conversation with them and I m like, oh, why do I feel bad about
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myself, about the world.
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And it s something to know within yourself.
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Do you want to spend more time or invest more time in these friendships?
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Because it seems like that s not what you want to spend your time doing and it s contagious.
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It s important to think about who you re surrounding yourself with.
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SPEAKER_00
That s very true.
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Okay.
4
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Well, that s it for today because we re on a short timeline, but we have a lot of great questions next week.
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And I m so happy to be back with you.
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I missed you so much.
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Maybe when we come back, we ll have a party we ll be talking about.
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Maybe.
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Maybe.
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I m not committing, but at least a breakfast we ll be talking about.
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Yes.
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And I love you.
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I love you too.