0
SPEAKER_01
The following is a conversation with Devon Larratt, considered by many to be one of the greatest arm wrestlers in history.
0
SPEAKER_01
And now, a quick few second mention of each sponsor.
0
SPEAKER_01
Check them out in the description, it s the best way to support this podcast.
0
SPEAKER_01
First is Allform, my go-to furniture company.
0
SPEAKER_01
Second is Aidsleep, a self-cooling mattress cover I sleep on.
0
SPEAKER_01
Third is InsideTracker, a service I use to track my biological data.
0
SPEAKER_01
Fourth is ExpressVPN, the VPN I ve been using for many years.
0
SPEAKER_01
And fifth is SimpliSafe, the home security company I use.
0
SPEAKER_01
So the choice is comfort, health, or security.
0
SPEAKER_01
Choose wisely, my friends.
0
SPEAKER_01
And now on to the full ad reads.
0
SPEAKER_01
As always, no ads in the middle.
0
SPEAKER_01
I try to make these interesting, but if you skip them, please still check out our sponsors.
0
SPEAKER_01
I enjoy their stuff.
0
SPEAKER_01
Maybe you will too.
0
SPEAKER_01
This show is brought to you by Allform, a furniture company.
0
SPEAKER_01
They ship to your home quickly, take it back for free if you don t like it in the first 100 days.
0
SPEAKER_01
The thing is easy to assemble, it looks beautiful, classy, sort of minimalist, feels amazing.
0
SPEAKER_01
I love it.
0
SPEAKER_01
There s a love seat, which is the first thing I got.
0
SPEAKER_01
And in case you re wondering, the all-form love seat is not uncomfortably small, it s perfectly small.
0
SPEAKER_01
So if it s with a stranger, you can choose to be sufficiently distant to where you re not committing to a thing.
0
SPEAKER_01
But if you want, just a little bit closer, you can use the love seat as a catalyst for something magical.
0
SPEAKER_01
Speaking of something magical, the first person I sat on that love seat with
0
SPEAKER_01
is Michael Malice.
0
SPEAKER_01
I think it s for the episode where he wore the white suit.
0
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, go to allform.com slash Lex.
0
SPEAKER_01
They re offering 20% off all orders if you go to allform.com slash Lex.
0
SPEAKER_01
This episode is also sponsored by 8 Sleep and it s Pod Pro mattress.
0
SPEAKER_01
It controls temperature with a nap and it s packed with sensors.
0
SPEAKER_01
It can cool down to as low as 55 degrees on each side of the bed separately.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s actually starting to warm up here in Austin, which is where I am currently.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I gotta tell you, there s few things I enjoy about life than a good nap.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like a full night s sleep is nice, but a good nap on a cool, chilled bed with a slightly warm blanket, that, my friends, is heaven.
0
SPEAKER_01
It continues to surprise me that a 20-minute nap can take me from a place where nothing is working, where I m just low energy, and 20 minutes later, I m at the top of the world.
0
SPEAKER_01
I love it.
0
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, go to asleep.com slash Lex to check out their Pod Pro cover and save $200 at checkout.
0
SPEAKER_01
Asleep is currently shipping in the USA, Canada, and the United Kingdom.
0
SPEAKER_01
That s asleep.com slash Lex.
0
SPEAKER_01
This show is also brought to you by InsideTracker, a service I use to track my biological data.
0
SPEAKER_01
They have a bunch of plans, most of which include a blood test that gives you a lot of information that you can then make decisions based on.
0
SPEAKER_01
They have machine learning algorithms that take that data, analyze it, and make decisions.
0
SPEAKER_01
Now the data includes blood data, DNA data, fitness tracker data, and so on.
0
SPEAKER_01
And it provides you with a clear picture of what s going on inside you.
0
SPEAKER_01
and offers you science-backed recommendations for positive diet and lifestyle changes.
0
SPEAKER_01
I love this idea.
0
SPEAKER_01
I talk about it all the time.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s obvious that we should be making decisions about our body using data that comes from our body, not population data.
0
SPEAKER_01
That s great science.
0
SPEAKER_01
The 21st and the 22nd century will be based on data that comes from each individual person s body.
0
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, for a limited time, you can get 25% off the entire InsideTracker store if you go to insidetracker.com slash flex.
0
SPEAKER_01
That s insidetracker.com slash flex.
0
SPEAKER_01
This show is also brought to you by ExpressVPN.
0
SPEAKER_01
The app that has the big sexy button, it does the thing it s supposed to do and does it well.
0
SPEAKER_01
That s the best of software.
0
SPEAKER_01
I use it to protect my privacy on the internet from those ISPs that can still get your data even if you re using Chrome incognito mode to browse all those creepy websites that you browse.
0
SPEAKER_01
I know you do, listener.
0
SPEAKER_01
I know you too well.
0
SPEAKER_01
You can change locations to watch various shows that are geographically constrained.
0
SPEAKER_01
And my favorite is that the thing just works fast, and it works on any device, any operating system, including Linux, my favorite operating system.
0
SPEAKER_01
Anytime I get a chance to mention Linux, I mention Linux.
0
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, go to ExpressVPN.com slash LexPod to get an extra three months free.
0
SPEAKER_01
That s ExpressVPN.com slash LexPod.
0
SPEAKER_01
This show is also brought to you by SimpliSafe, a home security company designed to be simple and effective.
0
SPEAKER_01
It takes 30 minutes to set up.
0
SPEAKER_01
You can customize the system for your needs on SimpliSafe.com slash Lex.
0
SPEAKER_01
I have it set up in my place and I love it.
0
SPEAKER_01
I take my physical, mental, and cyber security very seriously.
0
SPEAKER_01
I add layers of protection.
0
SPEAKER_01
SimpliSafe is kind of, I would say, the first layer of protection.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s making sure nobody gets into my home.
0
SPEAKER_01
Or there s a lot of data evidence of them attempting to do so.
0
SPEAKER_01
As you can imagine, I have other layers of protection as well.
0
SPEAKER_01
But SimpliSafe is the first.
0
SPEAKER_01
And like I said, super easy to use.
0
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, go to simplisafe.com to customize your system and get a free security camera.
0
SPEAKER_01
plus a 60-day risk-free trial.
0
SPEAKER_01
Again, that s simplysafe.com slash Lex.
0
SPEAKER_01
This is the Lex Friedman Podcast, and here is my conversation with Devon Larratt.
0
SPEAKER_01
You are considered to be one of the greatest arm wrestlers in history, plus are one of the most charismatic and fun people to watch in arm wrestling.
0
SPEAKER_01
But let me first start with the ridiculous, the controversial opinion.
0
SPEAKER_01
I actually really enjoy Over the Top, the movie with Sylvester Stallone, where he s a trucker.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s like a father-son movie.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s like a bunch of sports have the definitive movie.
0
SPEAKER_01
Boxing has Rocky, maybe folk-style collegiate wrestling has Vision Quest.
0
SPEAKER_01
What else is there?
0
SPEAKER_01
Billiards has Color of Money.
0
SPEAKER_01
This is the sort of movie for arm wrestling.
0
SPEAKER_01
So what did Over the Top get right?
0
SPEAKER_01
What did it get wrong about arm wrestling?
0
SPEAKER_00
That was actually based off of a real story.
0
SPEAKER_00
A lot of people don t know that.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, the over the top movie, I mean, to a certain degree, that s actually real life.
0
SPEAKER_00
Like that tournament over the top was real.
0
SPEAKER_00
It was literally named over the top.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yes, yes.
0
SPEAKER_00
There was a trucker division and the guy actually won a truck for real.
0
SPEAKER_00
His name s John Brzenk.
0
SPEAKER_00
You know who that is, right?
0
SPEAKER_00
So the actual over the top tournament, the trucker division was won by John.
0
SPEAKER_01
Who is John Brzenk?
0
SPEAKER_01
He is, a lot of people talk about him as like a legend and one of, if not the greatest arm wrestlers of all time.
0
SPEAKER_00
John Brzenk is
0
SPEAKER_00
every arm wrestler s father to a certain degree, all of us.
0
SPEAKER_00
The entire sport looks up to him.
0
SPEAKER_00
It s incredible what he s done.
0
SPEAKER_00
I mean, at 18, he won over the top.
0
SPEAKER_00
At 57, he just competed with me a couple months ago.
0
SPEAKER_00
still at the world level, 18, that s 40 years of being at the top of the sport.
0
SPEAKER_00
It s incredible.
0
SPEAKER_00
He s hailed as the greatest of all time in the sport of arm wrestling.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
And he doesn t, he s beaten some monsters.
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
And he doesn t, I mean, when you talk about like the,
0
SPEAKER_00
the evolution of the sport, he s responsible for so much of it.
0
SPEAKER_00
Like when you talk about, like a lot of times when you go back like 20 years, 30 years, a lot of us looked at arm wrestling, I think it s, I mean, as something you could kind of do.
0
SPEAKER_00
And he s the first guy who s like, if you wanna get better at arm wrestling, you gotta arm wrestle.
0
SPEAKER_00
And it seems so simple, but he answered so many questions that all of us had about techniques in the sport back pre-video internet.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, he s been everybody s target for like 40 years.
0
SPEAKER_01
So in terms of strength, in terms of power, in terms of skill, what did he teach the sport of arm wrestling?
0
SPEAKER_01
So if you look, how did the sport change from 80s, 90s to the aughts?
0
SPEAKER_01
You were at the top of the world for many years.
0
SPEAKER_01
Many argue you re still at the very top of the world, but you were very dominant both left and right hand in, I don t know, 2008 to 2013, something like that.
0
SPEAKER_01
So how did that sport evolve to today?
0
SPEAKER_00
It s hard for me to comment prior to when I came to the sport was kind of mid-90s.
0
SPEAKER_00
I ve been arm wrestling my whole life, but I wasn t really involved in the sport to a major degree until probably mid-90s.
0
SPEAKER_00
But I ll say that before the mid-90s, it was really hard to get good at arm wrestling.
0
SPEAKER_00
Very difficult.
0
SPEAKER_00
Everybody was doing it wrong, really.
0
SPEAKER_00
Like, it was really rare to find people who were technically good arm wrestlers.
0
SPEAKER_00
It was very underground.
0
SPEAKER_00
When I got into sport, it was a flyer that came in the mail.
0
SPEAKER_00
You had to know somebody who knew somebody who knew somebody, and then you go to a club and you can t do anything with these people.
0
SPEAKER_00
And they knew how to arm wrestle, they did, but real masters were rare.
0
SPEAKER_00
And, you know, then internet, internet helped everybody.
0
SPEAKER_00
Communication, the transfer of knowledge became so much faster.
0
SPEAKER_00
People became technically, you know, invested.
0
SPEAKER_00
People start train, sharing ideas.
0
SPEAKER_00
By I d say, 2000,
0
SPEAKER_00
Well, probably around the turn of the millennia, I d say that professional leagues started to slowly pick up.
0
SPEAKER_00
More organized, bigger productions started to attract more athletes, more people took it seriously.
0
SPEAKER_00
By 2010, I d say there was another jump, more serious leagues, a little bit more money.
0
SPEAKER_00
By 2015,
0
SPEAKER_00
more major media, like people were investing a lot of money, like, uh, you know, millionaires, billionaires type of people were organizing events, setting up leagues.
0
SPEAKER_00
And, um, yeah, I mean, the past five years, it s just blown up, uh, the techniques.
0
SPEAKER_00
I mean, if, if I was to go back to when I started, uh, you know, what, what took me 10 or 15 years to learn, I mean, new guys are showing up and they ve got it down in like a year.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
Well, the thing about it, the development of the sport is it s, like I was telling you off mic, it s a battle.
0
SPEAKER_01
of one versus one.
0
SPEAKER_01
And then that can turn into battle of nations, which there is.
0
SPEAKER_01
There s Canada, there s the United States, there s all the Eastern Europe, Russia, Georgia, all of that.
0
SPEAKER_01
That s what makes some of the greatest sports in Olympics great, like weightlifting.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s a battle of nations, not just a battle of individuals.
0
SPEAKER_01
And it s almost like these two humans represent the two nations.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I see that very much.
0
SPEAKER_01
We ll talk about your matches coming up, but there is that battle between North America and that other part of the world.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
North America is very prized.
0
SPEAKER_00
The North American champion is always highly sought after because they re typically the most famous.
0
SPEAKER_00
Even still when, quite arguably, there s always somebody in Eastern Europe who s just monstrous.
0
SPEAKER_00
It s typically the North American athlete who s more recognized.
0
SPEAKER_01
By the way, we ll have a cup here with some maple syrup.
0
SPEAKER_01
Cheers, Lex.
0
SPEAKER_01
Cheers.
0
SPEAKER_01
We should probably show
0
SPEAKER_00
You just downed that whole thing.
0
SPEAKER_00
No, no, no, I m gonna sip it.
0
SPEAKER_00
I m gonna sip it, you know, but by all means.
0
SPEAKER_00
It s really good, right?
0
SPEAKER_00
That is delicious, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
That is maple syrup.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s a perfect July day from Canada in a bottle, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
So you re, on a total tangent, you are known for appreciating food in all kinds of ways, but one of the things you re known for is pancakes.
0
SPEAKER_00
That is, yeah, that s gone to a crazy place in the sport, but yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
Where did that originate?
0
SPEAKER_00
So, where that originated.
0
SPEAKER_00
When it went from your actual love for pancakes to the meme.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so I think what happened was,
0
SPEAKER_00
I had a match with Michael Todd, big match.
0
SPEAKER_00
Michael, great champion.
0
SPEAKER_00
He s another guy who s never going to get off the horse.
0
SPEAKER_00
His elbow is a complete disaster.
0
SPEAKER_00
Probably one of the most loved and hated guys in the sport right now.
0
SPEAKER_01
Is it because of the King s move?
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, the King s move brings him a lot of hate.
0
SPEAKER_00
Not from me, not from a lot of people, but a lot of observers have a big problem with the King s move.
0
SPEAKER_00
What s wrong with being a little bit controversial?
0
SPEAKER_01
That s fun.
0
SPEAKER_00
You know, I get so passionate about it.
0
SPEAKER_00
I get so angry, you know, because there s this thing like, oh, can you beat him at a hook?
0
SPEAKER_00
Can you beat, man, win, win.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s all that matters.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s it.
0
SPEAKER_00
Just win and don t talk to me about anything else.
0
SPEAKER_00
If you can win with style, win with style.
0
SPEAKER_00
but don t talk to me about anything but winning.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s the priority.
0
SPEAKER_00
So you had this match with Michael Todd.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so I was in a terrible place.
0
SPEAKER_00
I guess I get so screwed up with the years.
0
SPEAKER_00
It s 2022 now, right?
0
SPEAKER_00
No, it s 2030.
0
SPEAKER_00
What are you talking about?
0
SPEAKER_00
That s right, I think it is actually 2030.
0
SPEAKER_00
We re way ahead of schedule.
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh man.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s right, so when was this?
0
SPEAKER_00
This was like a decade ago or no?
0
SPEAKER_00
No, this is like a year.
0
SPEAKER_00
in a bit ago.
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh, this is very recent.
0
SPEAKER_00
Very recent, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
So I got really sick.
0
SPEAKER_00
Is that the match?
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, this is the match, right?
0
SPEAKER_00
Awesome match.
0
SPEAKER_00
So this match is for the Legacy Hammer.
0
SPEAKER_00
So we invented this thing called the Legacy Hammer and Michael took it from me in, I think, 2018.
0
SPEAKER_00
And then COVID shut everything down and
0
SPEAKER_00
Michael went overseas to try and set up, because at that time, Michael was a North American champion.
0
SPEAKER_00
He beat me, and he went to Dubai, and he organized this great big match with Levon.
0
SPEAKER_00
And the whole thing fell apart.
0
SPEAKER_00
Organizers, leagues, wouldn t let it happen, but there was still an ability to have a match of significance happen.
0
SPEAKER_00
So Michael s like, who do you want?
0
SPEAKER_00
And I m like, let s give Devin a rematch.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I m like, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I was really sick at the time.
0
SPEAKER_00
I had DVT, I had pulmonary embolism, I was mentally in a terrible place, and I got offered the match, and I just totally turned my life around.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I committed really hard.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
And what happened in this match, by the way?
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I just totally destroyed him.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I just beat the piss out of him.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
Michael s a good friend of mine.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, there s a lot of camaraderie.
0
SPEAKER_01
You guys talked afterwards, it was great.
0
SPEAKER_00
But we fight like brothers, so we let each other really fight hard against each other.
0
SPEAKER_00
I mean, strength and mass, they go hand in hand.
1
SPEAKER_01
hand.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I committed to just getting as big and as strong as I could, and literally I was eating pancakes every day.
1
SPEAKER_01
Bacon, pancakes, every sloppy bit of garbage food I could eat.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was trying to eat healthy also, but if there was garbage food, I d eat it.
1
SPEAKER_00
What do you mean bacon and pancakes isn t healthy?
1
SPEAKER_00
What are you talking about?
1
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_00
People should go watch, there s a video where you make the Canadian meal of bacon with some bacon cooking tips, water, that was interesting.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then obviously pancakes and maple syrup all over the whole thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
You re making me very hungry.
1
SPEAKER_01
I ve caused more diabetes and then, you know, probably gonna get in trouble karmically for making the world obese.
1
SPEAKER_00
You should probably write like a book, The Pancake Diet.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think I will do that one day.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you said mass and strength go hand-in-hand just at a big level about arm wrestling.
1
SPEAKER_00
What s more important?
1
SPEAKER_00
strength, power, endurance, skill, strategy, or mental toughness?
1
SPEAKER_00
How do these components all come into play in arm wrestling?
1
SPEAKER_01
They re all important.
1
SPEAKER_01
You can use everything and you can adjust your strategy based off of the tools that you have.
1
SPEAKER_01
I would say if I could pick ever just one thing to have more of,
1
SPEAKER_01
I would say that it would be strength gained while fighting.
1
SPEAKER_01
While actually arm wrestling, so not off the top.
1
SPEAKER_00
No, no, no.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you get stronger from arm wrestling.
1
SPEAKER_00
How do you get stronger from arm wrestling?
1
SPEAKER_00
Like in jiu-jitsu and grappling, you can get good by training with people much technically worse than you.
1
SPEAKER_00
So with white belts and blue belts, it s actually beneficial.
1
SPEAKER_00
Agree.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because you get to work stuff out.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I wouldn t say it develops like,
1
SPEAKER_00
that intensity and power required to go against people at your level.
1
SPEAKER_00
So how do you balance that?
1
SPEAKER_00
Is it okay to go against people that are much weaker than you, or do you really have to go against people at the same level?
1
SPEAKER_01
I think that a blended strategy is probably the best.
1
SPEAKER_01
I d say kind of a rule is whatever you do, you get better at, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
So you want to be kind of as precise as possible.
1
SPEAKER_01
You don t want to get hurt.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it s just about investment.
1
SPEAKER_01
And the answer is not always the same.
1
SPEAKER_01
Things are going to change.
1
SPEAKER_01
I am currently a big believer in what I call tower building, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
So you have to do a lot of volume.
1
SPEAKER_01
to build a great tower.
1
SPEAKER_01
You need to have a ton of volume.
1
SPEAKER_01
So, when you look at how to best build volume, you want to do workouts that aren t particularly challenging, that make you feel good, and do them so that when you add them all together,
1
SPEAKER_01
you get the biggest number.
1
SPEAKER_01
So many easy workouts a day that are as specific as possible, in my opinion, is the best way to lay the foundation for an extreme peak.
1
SPEAKER_01
And precision, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
There s no more precise way to get strong at arm wrestling than arm wrestling.
1
SPEAKER_00
So how often can you arm wrestle?
1
SPEAKER_00
What s your training regimen?
1
SPEAKER_00
You ve talked about this as the climb.
1
SPEAKER_00
What is the training process to get great at arm wrestling?
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, again, it s gonna depend on what level you re at.
1
SPEAKER_01
The answer at the beginning might not be the same.
1
SPEAKER_01
For me, a guy who s been doing it almost 30 years,
1
SPEAKER_01
I have to harvest, I have to harvest energy from clubs.
1
SPEAKER_01
I call it Cosmic Punch.
1
SPEAKER_00
Sorry to interrupt, you were here in Austin, Texas, you are in Austin, Texas, but you were at the, what was it called?
1
SPEAKER_00
The Water Tank.
1
SPEAKER_01
The Water Tank, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you had an awesome crowd.
1
SPEAKER_00
It was great.
1
SPEAKER_00
I get to watch, I get to interact with a lot of those guys.
1
SPEAKER_00
Just amazing community, amazing human beings.
1
SPEAKER_00
I got to talk to Dimitri in Russian and in English.
1
SPEAKER_00
He s an engineer, his wife is an engineer, so he s a brilliant dude, but also one of the toughest, I guess, guys you faced there.
1
SPEAKER_00
You faced, I don t know how many people, it must have been hundreds of matches.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so the bar was full.
1
SPEAKER_01
And that for me is a perfect training scenario.
1
SPEAKER_01
So if I go in and just kind of be, I m like a lightning rod.
1
SPEAKER_01
and I just absorb everything that I can get from people, all their effort, that s perfect, that s perfect.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I m lucky because I m in a place that I can handle it.
1
SPEAKER_01
If I was losing or failing, this would not be optimal.
1
SPEAKER_01
But because I m strong enough, I ve been doing it long enough that I can kind of absorb it without damaging me, this is perfect, this is perfect.
1
SPEAKER_01
I typically, when I m training up for a very serious match, I ll try and do that three or four times a week.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then the days in between, I will just do blood flow rehab.
1
SPEAKER_01
Blood flow rehab.
1
SPEAKER_01
I will never hit a PR, a record.
1
SPEAKER_01
I ll never do it anymore.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t do it.
1
SPEAKER_01
I used to.
1
SPEAKER_01
A lot of things change.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s why I say there s a lot of ways to do it.
1
SPEAKER_01
This is currently a system that s working very well for me.
1
SPEAKER_00
So when you say PR, you re not aggressively chasing a peak, you re just building and building and building.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, my only peak that I care about is for this cycle, the 25th of June.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s my only PR.
1
SPEAKER_00
Let s talk about the 25th of June.
1
Oh yeah!
1
SPEAKER_00
Let s talk about Levon Siganishvili, the Georgian Hulk.
1
SPEAKER_00
Question number one, is it possible to beat him?
1
SPEAKER_00
He is widely acknowledged as the most powerful person in arm wrestling today.
1
SPEAKER_00
Is he beatable?
1
SPEAKER_00
And if so, how?
1
SPEAKER_01
Everybody s beatable.
1
SPEAKER_01
Everybody s beatable.
1
SPEAKER_01
Levon is incredible.
1
SPEAKER_01
He is what this modern peak of arm wrestling represents.
1
SPEAKER_00
So for people who are just listening, we also have an overlay of a video of LeVon going against Vitaly Levin, another top three person in the world, perhaps, in arm wrestling.
1
SPEAKER_00
And LeVon is the guy on the right, just big.
1
SPEAKER_00
I love it.
1
SPEAKER_00
And the aggression, I mean, actually sort of underneath it all, it seems to be a teddy bear, but when he turns it on, it s raw power.
1
SPEAKER_00
He s the full package.
1
SPEAKER_01
Levon is, he represents the pinnacle.
1
SPEAKER_01
There s Dennis in the background.
1
SPEAKER_01
He s like, I want to be back in there.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
LeVon has a lot of bases covered.
1
SPEAKER_01
He s, I mean, he s curling 300 pounds with one arm.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, the strength that he shows for arm wrestling is so far ahead of the field.
1
SPEAKER_01
He s very, very strong.
1
SPEAKER_01
But it s absolutely possible.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s absolutely possible.
1
SPEAKER_01
The one thing that I m confident about, well, I d say there s two things.
1
SPEAKER_01
The two things I m confident about is that I have more experience than he does.
1
SPEAKER_01
And experience counts for a lot.
1
SPEAKER_01
The other thing is my ability to breathe and recover.
1
SPEAKER_01
So if ever there s an opportunity for the tide to turn, that s I think where he ll never get it back.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I think if I can somehow find a hole in his game, then,
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you want to hold off the initial assault of power and then wear them out to find the hole.
1
SPEAKER_00
How much of that is mental?
1
SPEAKER_00
How much of it is just the physical ability to do for your muscles to have the endurance to hold off?
1
SPEAKER_01
I like to make the sport bigger.
1
SPEAKER_01
And a lot of things that most arm wrestlers believe the sport is, I always try and push those boundaries.
1
SPEAKER_01
There is definitely a mental aspect to it when you re faced with something that you ve never seen before.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s when things like experience comes in.
1
SPEAKER_01
He can become surprised where what s a surprise for him is routine for me.
1
SPEAKER_01
So my adjustments will be more precise, more accurate.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s how I get in.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s how I get in.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I play a dirty game.
1
SPEAKER_00
So some of it, how important is confidence in the progression of the match?
1
SPEAKER_00
Is there ups and downs of confidence?
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, holy shit, I actually have a chance to win this.
1
SPEAKER_00
Holy shit, I m winning this, you re done.
1
SPEAKER_00
Some of my favorite moments, I don t know if those are fake or not in terms of your expressions, fake it until you make it, but whenever you shake your head or whatever, you make it apparent that,
1
SPEAKER_00
You believe the match is finished.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I wonder if that gets in the head of the other person.
1
SPEAKER_00
When you start to actually, so I m sure you re doing things, like precise, detailed things with your hands to also indicate that you believe they re finished.
1
SPEAKER_00
But you re facially just.
1
SPEAKER_00
See this?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Quit.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, that s right, because it s facing the other way.
1
SPEAKER_00
So that s ultimately what the battle is about.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s like, you re done.
1
SPEAKER_00
You might as well give up.
1
SPEAKER_01
Commitment is so important in anything that you do, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
I always kind of try and bring things to a level of commitment that s uncommon.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think that that s a lot of reasons why I do well.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s because I just get so committed in the whole process
1
SPEAKER_01
And by the time that I actually show up to fight, I sometimes just wish that they would kill me.
1
SPEAKER_01
I wish that they would, because that s how far I want to go.
1
SPEAKER_01
People talk about how committed are you to the match.
1
SPEAKER_01
If you re committed to the match and you lose, you should be hurt.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m often unhappy.
1
SPEAKER_01
When I lose a match and I don t have an injury, I m like, damn, what the fuck?
1
SPEAKER_01
I feel like I didn t commit.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t know if you know Dan Gable is the wrestler.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah, he was on the podcast?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
He talked about his whole career, he dreamed of working so hard that he can t get off the mat by himself.
1
SPEAKER_00
And he s disappointed ultimately at the end of his career because he was always able to get off the mat on his own accord.
1
SPEAKER_00
So he wants to leave it all on the mat just from exhaustion.
1
SPEAKER_00
So that s what commitment looks like.
1
SPEAKER_00
What is this process, what is this climb for
1
SPEAKER_00
probably the toughest match of your career.
1
SPEAKER_00
I would say the most epic match in arm wrestling history.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s really building up.
1
SPEAKER_00
You are the, you said North America, that s, I mean, I think, by accounts of many, you re one of the greatest arm wrestlers ever.
1
SPEAKER_00
He is one of the scariest arm wrestlers ever.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so this match, by the way, where is it happening?
1
SPEAKER_01
It ll be in Dubai.
1
SPEAKER_00
In Dubai.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
June.
1
SPEAKER_01
So what does the climb look like?
1
SPEAKER_01
The climb for me, um, what I have to change in my life always, um, people talk about being a professional and I ve always loved the sport.
1
SPEAKER_01
I ve loved it like crazy.
1
SPEAKER_01
Uh, but to me, the path is about simplicity and removal of distractions.
1
SPEAKER_01
I do better and better the more I get rid of everything, nothing else, so that my life is just the goal, just the target, and everything else is off the table.
1
SPEAKER_01
And that s where I need to get to, where there s nothing.
1
SPEAKER_01
There s nothing between me and Him.
1
SPEAKER_00
And every single day you re putting in the volume.
1
SPEAKER_00
Every day, all day.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now you said you worked out, so yesterday you did hundreds of arm wrestling matches, and then today you said in the morning you still worked out, so what was that workout?
1
SPEAKER_00
So you re mixing up stuff where you re doing weights also?
1
SPEAKER_01
This morning, you know,
1
SPEAKER_01
I try to really focus on what s administratively easy.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s a big part of me, everything I do.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I just travel with bands.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I got bands with me.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it s rehabilitative in nature, so I m really focusing on blood flow, feeling good, doing proper movements.
1
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, just a band workout in the hotel room.
1
SPEAKER_00
What does a band workout look like?
1
SPEAKER_00
So are you doing the arm wrestling movement?
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, see that?
1
SPEAKER_01
See what you did there?
1
SPEAKER_01
What s that?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you wanna bring him in.
1
SPEAKER_01
Up, up.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, the up thing?
1
SPEAKER_01
Up, up, up, up, up, and to your center, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
You think, what can you control out here?
1
SPEAKER_01
No, you bring everything close.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s it, don t worry about pinning.
1
SPEAKER_01
Pinning happens once it s close to you.
1
SPEAKER_01
People always think about pinning.
1
SPEAKER_01
Don t think about pinning.
1
SPEAKER_00
How much of the body is a part of this too?
1
SPEAKER_00
Like the core, the torso, because it feels like there s that almost like Mike Tyson punch power, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Does it come from the hips too and the legs?
1
SPEAKER_00
It s definitely the whole body.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s definitely the whole body.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like everything is working.
1
SPEAKER_01
You re connected to the table at times as far as your base.
1
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes your base is your feet, but a lot of times you can base off the table.
1
SPEAKER_01
So you can base off your hips, but I ll tell you.
1
SPEAKER_01
No arm wrestler cares about doing squats.
1
SPEAKER_01
No arm wrestler is doing planks.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s all about the forearm and the actions of the hand.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s always the limiting factor.
1
SPEAKER_01
You look at a guy like Oleg Zok.
1
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_01
Do you know this guy?
1
SPEAKER_01
Oleg Zok.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Marvelous.
1
SPEAKER_01
He s a, he s a total hell boy.
1
SPEAKER_01
He s my inspiration to what I call pumpkin training, but.
1
SPEAKER_00
What s pumpkin training?
1
SPEAKER_01
probably we ll get into that, but I only train my right arm, that s it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, with homework.
1
SPEAKER_01
But back to full body, it is full body.
1
SPEAKER_01
My good friend Matt Mask, when he arm wrestled me, he actually blew his internal abductor in his leg.
1
SPEAKER_01
So yeah, people walk away from tournament, their calves can be sore sometimes, you know, it happens.
1
SPEAKER_01
But no, oh, there he is right there, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, like, he is a real life hellboy.
1
SPEAKER_01
He s like 170 pounds there.
1
SPEAKER_01
Look at his arm, look at his arm.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s crazy.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, he s totally crazy.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s you doing left right there.
1
SPEAKER_00
So by the way, Levon, you re going right.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
So can you say more about the mental side?
1
SPEAKER_00
Are you visualizing what it takes to beat him?
1
SPEAKER_00
Are you trying to get in his head?
1
SPEAKER_00
All of these things.
1
SPEAKER_00
Do you think it s possible to get in his head?
1
SPEAKER_01
There s definitely strategies that you can do depending on who it is you re facing.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s very good to know who it is you re fighting and choose the correct strategy mentally.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I always follow a process when it comes to my mental preparation.
1
SPEAKER_01
When I m far away from an event, I just always build up my opponent.
1
SPEAKER_01
Build them, I build them, I respect them.
1
SPEAKER_01
To a point where I almost start to fear them and start to believe that they ll beat me.
1
SPEAKER_01
And this is a very vital part of my preparation.
1
SPEAKER_01
And that s where I am right now with Levon.
1
SPEAKER_01
I just build him up, build him up into this thing that scares me.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it forces me to be responsible.
1
SPEAKER_01
Because I don t want to lose.
1
SPEAKER_01
I want to win.
1
SPEAKER_01
So the greater my opponent, the greater I can build their worth in my mind, the more motivation it gives me.
2
SPEAKER_01
me.
2
SPEAKER_01
Then there comes a point when it changes.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then I start to degrade them.
2
SPEAKER_01
And yeah, that s when it normally starts to get fun.
2
SPEAKER_01
And normally by the time I face them, I just try and completely dominate from every interaction from start to finish.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
When in the actual moment of the match, in the moments leading up to it, what s the feeling?
2
SPEAKER_00
Is it fear?
2
SPEAKER_00
Is it confidence?
2
SPEAKER_00
Anxiety?
2
SPEAKER_00
What s going through your mind?
2
SPEAKER_00
I love to fight.
2
SPEAKER_00
I love it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I always have.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s every day where you have the distractions of life, and then there s really living in the moment, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
It s whatever you love to do, and that s when you can really be free.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m free when I m fighting, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
So you put me in a good fight,
2
SPEAKER_01
And I just love it.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I don t think about the past.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t think about the future.
2
SPEAKER_01
I just think about killing that dude in front of me and I enjoy that.
2
SPEAKER_01
and just being intensely in the moment.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s it, just right there, just fighting as hard as I can.
2
SPEAKER_00
Do you study the opponent?
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, do you have you for this particular match, do you study videos of LeVon?
2
SPEAKER_00
I ve seen everything.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ve read everything.
2
SPEAKER_01
I get opinions from other people.
2
SPEAKER_01
I watch very closely, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
What do you make of his evolution?
2
SPEAKER_00
So he s grown in size, but also you ve talked about his evolution technically as well.
2
SPEAKER_00
In studying him, since we re in the build your opponent to beat terrifying stage, what makes him great?
2
SPEAKER_01
He s very impressive.
2
SPEAKER_01
The greatest thing about him is his strength.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s the thing that sets him apart from everyone.
2
SPEAKER_01
His strength, specialized strength, exact strength for arm wrestling.
2
SPEAKER_00
I believe it s unmatched.
2
SPEAKER_00
Can we just linger on that word strength?
2
SPEAKER_00
What does strength mean?
2
SPEAKER_00
What does it feel like?
2
SPEAKER_00
Are we talking about bicep
2
SPEAKER_00
like shoulder, are we talking about like whatever controls the wrist?
2
SPEAKER_00
Is it the, how does strength manifest?
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, like when I touch your hand, when we grab arms, I feel like, fuck, that s strong.
2
SPEAKER_00
What is that feeling?
2
SPEAKER_00
Where does that come from?
2
SPEAKER_00
In arm wrestling, when you re at the top of the world, where does that come from?
2
SPEAKER_01
So, it s chains.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s chains of strength.
2
SPEAKER_01
And in arm wrestling, this is like technical strength, okay?
2
SPEAKER_01
And we use these technical chains to fight each other.
2
SPEAKER_01
Um, the, the chains that I ll talk about is, so you ll talk, remember how we talked about the post, this upwards drive, this ability to close this angle.
2
SPEAKER_01
This is a chain.
2
SPEAKER_01
Um, it can be used.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s, it s a technical attack.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s also an attack that can be built with, with training, just the ability to just drive upwards.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s a chain where you cup, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Cup your wrist in.
2
SPEAKER_01
Cup your wrist in and the anchor and the chain brings you right to your heart, right to your center, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
This chain, and this can be done at any time.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s a pronation chain and that s to turn your thumb over, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Turn your thumb over and you attack the person s cupping chain.
2
SPEAKER_01
And there s a huge number of muscles involved in each of those chains.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right, and that s why I say it s a chain, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
But they re movements, and these movements you can develop in the gym or through practice.
2
SPEAKER_00
So you don t mean, so it s easy to sort of interpret strength to mean how much you curl, essentially.
2
SPEAKER_00
But you mean the chain, it s all has to do with the... Right, and that s like, I mean, people talk, is it a bicep?
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, yes, there s bicep for sure involved, but I ll always be inaccurate if I try and tell you like what muscles are the, so I prefer to explain it in a movement and then everything that s involved to do that movement, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
And LeVon s movements for arm wrestling are incredibly impressive.
2
SPEAKER_00
What do you attribute to, how much of that is genetics, how much of it is some training thing he s doing?
2
SPEAKER_01
I think that LeVon is very special in terms of his genetics.
2
SPEAKER_01
Not everybody can be LeVon.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s not many LeVons out there.
2
SPEAKER_01
But what I ve encountered in the bias that I always see, like when people talk about people like Levon, they discount the other side so very quickly.
2
SPEAKER_01
And the thing is, Levon rarely has to show the other side because he s so far ahead.
2
SPEAKER_01
You talk about the technical application of the sport.
2
SPEAKER_01
He so rarely needs to show it, but he s clearly incredible.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you watch his progression, he came up having very difficult technical struggles to overcome.
2
SPEAKER_01
Georgia is a great country for arm wrestling.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s this guy, Gennady Kvikvinia, who no one would ever say is not technical.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it took him years to defeat him.
2
SPEAKER_01
to a point where now it s not even a discussion.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you talk about the progression.
2
SPEAKER_00
They had a lot of battles together over the years.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s fascinating to see the tides turn.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
And once they ve turned, it s like completely, completely different level.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I mean, he s got strength, he s got technique.
2
SPEAKER_01
Some people will argue that his technique is flawed at times.
2
SPEAKER_01
They ve shown matches where he hasn t shown the best technique, but he s still won.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think sometimes he just plays with people.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s a famous match that he had with
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, they call him the Bruce Lee of arm wrestling, a guy called Ongarbaev, Kurtogali Ongarbaev.
2
SPEAKER_01
They had a match in the top eight, great match.
2
SPEAKER_01
Kurtogali is like 220-pound guy from Kazakhstan, brilliant technician, but power-wise, you know, not in the same world.
2
SPEAKER_01
And Kurtogali did well, even though he lost six-nothing.
2
SPEAKER_01
He still did well.
2
SPEAKER_01
But in my opinion, Lavon didn t care.
2
SPEAKER_01
Lavon was like grabbing him low and just like, whatever.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like I will show him things that he s not seen before.
2
SPEAKER_01
I will.
2
SPEAKER_01
Um, he hasn t competed often in this rule set, which will be a challenge for him.
2
SPEAKER_01
But, uh, yeah, what can I say?
2
SPEAKER_01
Like Lavon, he s, he s Everest.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you are seen by basically everybody as the big, big underdog.
2
SPEAKER_00
But you re also, even in the Eastern, even, I mean, I talk to Russians a lot.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know that moment in Rocky when they start cheering for Rocky?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re kind of the, they love you, they want you to win.
2
SPEAKER_00
And just, you know, it s not even,
2
SPEAKER_00
just the battle itself is inspiring.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s like the culmination of your career because you re at the top for a long time, but it s like it s almost like it should be over for you, but no, you re returning.
2
SPEAKER_00
It is like this big moment.
2
SPEAKER_01
the big climb, I will be the pointy end of the spear for North America.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Ah, beautiful.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, thanks for bringing that match up.
2
SPEAKER_00
Let s talk about just the match against Dennis, your left-hand match.
2
SPEAKER_00
He s also terrifying and seen as one of the strongest, probably one of, if not the strongest, left-hand arm wrestler.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s a lot to be said there.
2
SPEAKER_00
Maybe you could talk about this match at a high level.
2
SPEAKER_00
Why did you take on this match?
2
SPEAKER_00
Why did you do the left hand versus the right hand?
2
SPEAKER_00
Can you tell the story?
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay, Denis Zaplankov.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s so much about this match.
2
SPEAKER_01
I love Denis.
2
SPEAKER_00
Russian guy.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, Russian guy.
2
SPEAKER_01
Russian, I used to call him Denis Chernobyl.
2
SPEAKER_01
What a monster.
2
SPEAKER_01
He kind of led, I d say, this new era of arm wrestling where the super heavyweight strength level has just gone through the roof.
2
SPEAKER_01
I wanted the match for such a long time.
2
SPEAKER_01
We tried to get the match.
2
SPEAKER_01
We couldn t get it organized.
2
SPEAKER_01
This is back in 2008 to 2012.
2
SPEAKER_01
Couldn t get the match, couldn t get the match.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ve always been more of a one-on-one puller.
2
SPEAKER_01
He was doing the tournament format.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was ranked number one in the world.
2
SPEAKER_01
And towards the end, it kind of was very undecided.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ended up getting surgery.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ended up abandoning the super heavyweight division.
2
SPEAKER_01
I went down to 225s for a few years.
2
SPEAKER_01
WAL failed temporarily.
2
SPEAKER_01
So the 225-pound division was scrapped.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I said, okay, I m going to go for the big crown once again.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I started to go after super heavyweights.
2
SPEAKER_01
The 2018 season was right hand.
2
SPEAKER_01
I started to enter negotiations to have the match with him.
2
SPEAKER_01
We d been chasing the match for 10 years.
2
SPEAKER_01
They wanted to do a left hand, I wanted to do a right hand.
2
SPEAKER_01
I just wanted to do the match.
2
SPEAKER_01
I wanted to do the match with Dennis, I wanted to meet Dennis.
2
SPEAKER_01
So people should know that you were, the right hand has always been your strongest.
2
SPEAKER_01
It has been.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I had surgery in 2016.
2
SPEAKER_01
I hate to make excuses.
2
SPEAKER_01
I hate to do it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Dennis was better than me that day, even on my best day.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you had gone back my entire career, at no single day do I beat Dennis Ziplankov in 2018.
2
SPEAKER_01
I would like to think that I could maybe do it now, but at that point there would be no version that could have beat him.
2
SPEAKER_01
Left or right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Right hand, no.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m curious about the right.
2
SPEAKER_01
But left hand... So is the world.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, it might still happen.
2
SPEAKER_01
It might.
2
SPEAKER_01
But Dennis completely destroyed me.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I learned a lot from it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think before the Dennis match, I think I was, I don t know, I don t know exactly what words to use.
2
SPEAKER_01
Maybe I felt like my thinking was a little bit elitist.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I really learned a lot.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was really humbled that day.
2
SPEAKER_01
by how far and how professional and how prepared Dennis was, and how seriously he took the sport.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s a mental, a slightly terrifying calmness to him, which only comes with extreme preparation, I think.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, his level of dedication was extremely inspiring to me.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, I,
2
SPEAKER_01
used to do a job where
2
SPEAKER_01
it was serious enough that the price could be death, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
And I arm wrestled throughout that entire period.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I always kind of looked at the cost of doing an activity being death limited to soldiering.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I kind of changed my mind a lot after that match.
2
SPEAKER_01
I realized that
2
SPEAKER_01
anything that you re in love with, once you get far enough down the road and professional enough at it, it s gonna kill you.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, doesn t matter what you re doing, if you re crazy enough about anything, it s probably gonna take your life from you in some way.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that doesn t mean you rush towards death, it s just your level of investment and level of risk can have some catastrophic effects.
2
SPEAKER_00
Bukowski, Charles Bukowski, I think has the quote, do what you love and let it kill you.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like that.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I understood that Dennis s level of professionalism far exceeded mine in what we were doing at the time.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I realized that, you know, I was no longer employed.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was now in the world of professional arm wrestling.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I realized that, you know, what was I doing?
2
SPEAKER_01
Like how serious was I?
2
SPEAKER_01
So Dennis is an incredible guy.
2
SPEAKER_00
Is there moments in that match, there s this humility there too from him.
2
SPEAKER_00
That was a fascinating sort of, it seemed like you realized that you just hit a wall and you were not ready enough for it.
2
SPEAKER_01
It was incredible.
2
SPEAKER_01
There was so many things that I remember about the Dennis match.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I remember seeing video of somebody and then meeting them in person, it s different.
2
SPEAKER_01
I remember in the weigh-ins, sorry, not the weigh-ins, the standoff that we did before the match, I m looking at him, I m close, I m looking at his arms, and his bicep, it looked like an ass.
2
SPEAKER_01
It was like a freaking glute muscle.
2
SPEAKER_01
His entire structure was so sinewy and just so strong.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was like, wow, physically so impressive.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I remember when I arm wrestled him at a certain time, he allowed me to kind of set my position.
2
SPEAKER_01
You can t really tell because it happens very quickly, but he let me set my position, which means I kind of got my locks in where you can kind of really do a great hold.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he just ripped through me.
2
SPEAKER_00
So you were able to get this great position.
2
SPEAKER_01
So it was tore right through me.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and the first time I ever thought that I had torn something, I thought like after the match, I m like, geez, did he rip my chest right in half?
2
SPEAKER_00
Did it?
2
SPEAKER_00
No, I think- It was 100% chest.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, no, I didn t actually, nothing went purple or anything, but...
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, the strength gap was very significant with Dennis.
2
SPEAKER_01
Could he, what would it take to beat him on that day?
2
SPEAKER_01
Um, it would, it would take me just being a little bit stronger, um, and more healthy.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Uh, my left was not as healthy as it should be.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like I didn t have a full rounded technical arsenal.
2
SPEAKER_01
It takes a time after surgery.
2
SPEAKER_01
It really does.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, I mean, you can be good, but
2
SPEAKER_01
After a surgery like what I had, you re probably looking at three or four years before you re starting to hit technical proficiency the way you should be.
2
SPEAKER_00
And yeah, just a bit stronger.
2
SPEAKER_00
How do you interpret the calmness on his face?
2
SPEAKER_00
What is that about?
2
SPEAKER_00
Is he actually that calm?
2
SPEAKER_00
It s very Russian, isn t it?
2
SPEAKER_00
It s a Russian thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s a Russian thing, I think.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_01
I see a lot of Russians like that.
2
SPEAKER_01
They re so stoic.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m such a fan of Russia.
2
SPEAKER_01
I really want to go to Moscow.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ve been saying it forever.
2
SPEAKER_01
You ve never been?
2
SPEAKER_01
Not yet, not yet.
2
SPEAKER_01
I wanna go, I wanna just go and live there for like a month and just train.
2
SPEAKER_01
Moscow s got such a crazy arm wrestling scene.
2
SPEAKER_01
They ve got, from what I understand, they just have so many clubs, there s so many strong athletes.
2
SPEAKER_01
Just go and just lightning rod, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Have you considered doing something of that sort?
2
SPEAKER_00
It s like Rocky IV again.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, and lead up to June.
2
SPEAKER_01
I would certainly consider it.
2
SPEAKER_01
only one trip planned at the moment, administration is very important.
2
SPEAKER_01
What do you mean by administration?
2
SPEAKER_01
Like managing your time?
2
SPEAKER_01
Management, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
The management has to be very efficient.
2
SPEAKER_01
When I m a tourist, when I m a visitor, a little bit of that goes down.
2
SPEAKER_01
When I m at my home and things are familiar, I ve got a really great grasp on my time.
2
SPEAKER_01
Everything s in place.
2
SPEAKER_01
Everything s perfect.
2
SPEAKER_01
If I could magically transport Moscow into my hometown and just go out and visit them, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
So it s very difficult when you re traveling, you have to keep all the, you have to figure out what are you eating, how are you getting the food, all the socializing, plus you re more and more a celebrity, so there s social interaction, which I don t know how draining that could be on you outside of the arm wrestling table, so you have to manage
3
SPEAKER_01
all of that, because ultimately you have to focus on the fight ahead.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
A lot of my strength comes from just being in a familiar place, doing my routine.
3
SPEAKER_02
I love to travel.
3
SPEAKER_02
I love to get out there and meet people and new experiences.
3
SPEAKER_02
But when I just want to really prepare for a big match, yeah, home is where I get strong.
3
SPEAKER_01
So that loss against Dennis was one of the few losses in your career.
3
SPEAKER_01
How did that feel in the moments after, in the days after, in the months after, in the years after?
3
SPEAKER_01
How has it changed you as an arm wrestler, as a human being?
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, it s tough to lose.
3
SPEAKER_02
Still haunting you?
3
SPEAKER_02
Um, I don t think so.
3
SPEAKER_02
I actually was really happy to lose to Dennis because, you know, sometimes when you lose a match, there s a lot of matches that have lost where they upset me because I know I made a mistake.
3
SPEAKER_02
I didn t make a mistake with Dennis.
3
SPEAKER_02
He was just, he was just way better.
3
SPEAKER_02
There s nothing I could have done that day.
3
SPEAKER_02
Uh, I m really at peace with it.
3
SPEAKER_02
Um,
3
SPEAKER_02
Dennis, to me, was just a big inspiration.
3
SPEAKER_02
I think that me arm wrestling Dennis left-handed that day just let me touch probably one of the strongest human beings on the arm wrestling table that s ever lived, you know, left-handed.
3
SPEAKER_01
So... So knowing that s possible is almost like inspiration to you that I can be at that level too.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, seeing what Dennis did, just trying to absorb a little bit of his knowledge, planted seeds in me.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I mean, when I look at my career, it s a bit like the stock market, but for sure I m trending upwards.
3
SPEAKER_02
And since really kind of wrapping my mind around some of the Russian philosophies, they really changed my training systems.
3
SPEAKER_02
There was some base philosophies that they talked to me about over there that massively impacted my training.
3
SPEAKER_01
Is it possible to convert some of those philosophies into words?
3
SPEAKER_01
Can you describe some of the ideas they taught you?
3
SPEAKER_01
Never smile.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right?
3
SPEAKER_00
Man, it takes a while to break the ice with a lot of these guys.
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, once you do, I mean, that s as deep as Bonzi can form there.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
3
SPEAKER_02
I think that I was raised under, I believe it s a flawed, I mean it s not flawed because it has its value as well, but it s best if you understand both philosophies.
3
SPEAKER_02
I think a North American thing that s just so ingrained in our fitness society is no pain, no gain.
3
SPEAKER_02
You know, and just pushing and like sweating and going harder and like fighting through like, and grit and tough, but, and then you talk to the Russians and they re like, yeah, never fail.
3
SPEAKER_02
You never fail.
3
SPEAKER_02
Never go to failure.
3
SPEAKER_02
Always feel good.
3
SPEAKER_02
Always feel good.
3
SPEAKER_02
You should always feel good.
3
SPEAKER_02
Don t, and those two philosophies express themselves very differently.
3
SPEAKER_02
And if you want to get strong,
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, don t fail, don t fail.
3
SPEAKER_01
So that s how you, they also are believers of volume.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, there s a lot of strategies, but volume is a massive principle.
3
SPEAKER_02
And volume is very hard to achieve when you re believing in no pain, no gain.
3
SPEAKER_02
They don t really go together.
3
SPEAKER_02
No pain, no gain, more injuries.
3
SPEAKER_01
So is there parallels, because in wrestling, some of the greatest wrestlers of all time are Russian, and they were big, Dan Gable talks about it, they were big on play, like lighter wrestling, because probably ultimately, actually, it boils down to that s how you achieve higher volume.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like over the stretch of years, the way to reduce injury.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, in wrestling also, technique,
3
SPEAKER_01
might have greater value than it does in arm wrestling.
3
SPEAKER_01
Obviously, technique is extremely important in arm wrestling, but power can defeat technique, it seems like.
3
SPEAKER_01
In wrestling, you can get away, there s a lot of ways you can really do sneak attacks, sort of use leverage, all those kinds of things.
3
SPEAKER_01
So there s even more incentive to do play and all that kind of stuff.
3
SPEAKER_01
But do you see the parallels between the two worlds, wrestling and arm wrestling?
3
100%.
3
SPEAKER_02
You saw what I did the other night, right?
3
SPEAKER_02
So I m playing on the table for hours, right?
3
SPEAKER_02
So that s my number one training thing that I do, is I go on the table for hours and I play, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, when you did, Sergei, can you pull up that video?
3
SPEAKER_01
It s on Devin s channel, the water tank one.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, it s like 180p.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s like the wifi in there was so bad.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s great, I love it.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t know if it was fisheye, but it had a fisheye feel.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was crowded.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, so much camaraderie.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was amazing.
3
SPEAKER_01
But maybe just a brief mention of Dmitry, the Russian guy.
3
SPEAKER_01
in that play, what are some memorable things here?
3
SPEAKER_01
Like when you go against a bunch of different people, a bunch of strangers, what are all the differences?
3
SPEAKER_01
And how do you grow from them?
3
SPEAKER_01
How do you learn from them?
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, everybody s a bit different, so.
3
SPEAKER_02
I love to go to new clubs because the energy is always high.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like the first time you go to a club, everybody s trying to kill you.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
So there s excitement and there s a, so you feed off of that.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, you do.
3
SPEAKER_02
You can, you can, if you re able to be strong enough to absorb it without injury, it s awesome.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s awesome.
3
SPEAKER_02
Because they re giving you everything they got.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Right, so it s very specific, right?
3
SPEAKER_02
Like I m gonna get way stronger at arm wrestling.
3
SPEAKER_02
And what I try and do when I go to these places is I make an assumption, I make an assumption that I m the best guy there.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so I ll arm wrestle in a way that kind of protects them, because the more I can protect them and kind of keep them kind of in a good position, they can actually give me more, right?
3
SPEAKER_02
So I kind of give them little pieces that I think will put them in a place that they can really give me more.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so yeah, that s what I m doing.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then when I see somebody like Dimitri,
3
SPEAKER_02
I pull that in a little bit, right?
3
SPEAKER_02
Okay, so I know Demetri s the number one guy in Texas.
3
SPEAKER_02
Lots of respect to the guy.
3
SPEAKER_02
I won t give him all the pieces until I really kind of gauge where he s at because I certainly in training don t want to fail.
3
SPEAKER_02
I don t want that.
3
SPEAKER_02
I don t want to, when you fail in arm wrestling, imagine it s just bad technique and you re trying and bad technique, you re gonna get hurt.
3
SPEAKER_01
So you always want to be in a strong position here.
3
SPEAKER_01
What about, how does endurance come into play here?
3
SPEAKER_01
And here s video strapping up with the pantry.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, you went for like, I don t know, two hours?
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it was long.
3
SPEAKER_02
So this first run of the video, I think, was a little over an hour, and then I took a break, and I probably did another 45 minutes or so.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, do you...
3
SPEAKER_01
Are you okay with the endurance aspect of this?
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that s probably like when you talk to the arm wrestling world, that s probably what I m best known for is my endurance.
3
SPEAKER_02
So this helps build that.
3
SPEAKER_02
It does, but that s not why I m doing it.
3
SPEAKER_02
I m doing it to get strong.
3
SPEAKER_02
In my opinion, this is one of the best ways to get strong, especially far away from a tournament or any kind of an event.
3
SPEAKER_02
I wouldn t want to do this, you know, even a month or even six weeks or even maybe even eight weeks before a big event.
3
SPEAKER_02
I d want to already be kind of shrinking my volume.
3
SPEAKER_02
But far away from an event, yeah, as much volume as your body can handle, and you ll feel it.
3
SPEAKER_02
You ll feel it.
3
SPEAKER_02
Like I felt it at times, like, you know, after the hour mark, I m like, okay, I can feel my blood sugar kind of diminishing.
3
SPEAKER_02
I can feel like the blood that s going to my muscles is kind of like,
3
SPEAKER_02
it s not really pushing more good stuff in, I m starting to break down.
3
SPEAKER_02
And you don t want that, you don t want that.
3
SPEAKER_01
Quick pause, bathroom break?
3
SPEAKER_01
I m good, I m good.
3
SPEAKER_01
I kinda need one.
3
SPEAKER_02
I ll maybe get a sweater, it s a bit, is it cold?
3
SPEAKER_02
Does that matter, does that care for chemical?
3
SPEAKER_02
No, no, no, no.
3
SPEAKER_02
I can make it warmer.
3
SPEAKER_02
No, no, no, I ll just put a sweater on.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I still love the idea of you going to Russia and training there.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m also making a trip out to Russia.
3
SPEAKER_02
Oh yeah, when?
3
SPEAKER_01
For different reasons.
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, it s hard with the current conflict, the tensions there, but I m hoping before your match actually, so May, for a couple of interviews with a couple of folks, some of which people know.
3
SPEAKER_01
Maybe I could ask you about, to comment on some matches that stand out to you in your career.
3
SPEAKER_01
Is there something, is there a particular, I have a bunch that I really enjoy, but is there something that stands out to you as memorable?
3
SPEAKER_01
We talked about
3
SPEAKER_01
sort of a defining loss, perhaps, to Dennis.
3
SPEAKER_01
Then you faced Michael Todd, like we mentioned, John Brzenk, you faced Matt.
3
SPEAKER_01
Is there something that stands out to you that technically or psychologically you ve learned a lot from?
3
SPEAKER_02
I feel like I try and learn something from every match, but there is a very special match to me that, to this day, I can t explain.
3
SPEAKER_02
very weird phenomena.
3
SPEAKER_02
So I think it was 2005 was my first combat tour overseas.
3
SPEAKER_02
So it was a active tour.
3
SPEAKER_02
Among other things, I got shot during that tour.
3
SPEAKER_02
We got blown, long tour, rough tour.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I trained the whole time through knowing that at the end of this, I was gonna have a big match.
3
SPEAKER_02
So there s a champion guy called Ron Bath.
3
SPEAKER_02
He s kind of, if there was no John Brzenk, there would be Ron Bath.
3
SPEAKER_02
Okay, so extremely decorated, unbelievable arm wrestler from the United States.
3
SPEAKER_02
And this is kind of when I was just kind of coming up in the sport still.
3
SPEAKER_02
I was fairly well established.
3
SPEAKER_02
I was definitely the best guy in Canada.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I had been for a few years, but I hadn t really expanded internationally too much.
3
SPEAKER_02
So I had a one-on-one match with Ron Bath, and that s the one.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Extremely hard-fought battle.
3
SPEAKER_02
Was 3-1, I think, 3-1, but every match was really close, and he won the first one, and I had to kind of like dig my way out of the trenches and ended up coming back and winning, but it was a match
3
SPEAKER_02
that was probably one of my closest matches ever.
3
SPEAKER_01
It seems like there s frustration on you.
3
SPEAKER_01
What is that?
3
SPEAKER_01
What was going through your mind here with these?
3
SPEAKER_01
Was it, first of all, going in, did you think you could beat them?
3
SPEAKER_01
What was the level of confidence?
3
SPEAKER_01
I always think I can win.
3
SPEAKER_02
I always do.
3
SPEAKER_02
But a lot of respect to the guy.
3
SPEAKER_02
But yeah, I mean, I always think I can do it.
3
SPEAKER_01
So what lessons did you take away from it?
3
SPEAKER_01
Why is it so meaningful to you?
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, it s what happened afterwards.
3
SPEAKER_02
So I had some kind of a release afterwards.
3
SPEAKER_02
And that was the strange thing to me.
3
SPEAKER_02
So match ended and I felt like so relaxed afterwards, so calm, so, you know, satisfied.
3
SPEAKER_02
because it was one of those matches that kind of takes everything from you, but you win it.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I was relaxing in the chair, and I ve never had this sensation before, I ve never had it afterwards, but it s like the center of my backbone just exploded, and it was like,
3
SPEAKER_02
It s so weird, right?
3
SPEAKER_02
Because I m not really spiritual that much or religious even, but it s like a fire just ripped through me.
3
SPEAKER_02
And it only lasted an instant, just exploded through my whole body, out of the top, through my feet.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then it was gone, that was it.
3
SPEAKER_02
Weirdest thing I ve ever felt in my entire life.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, but it was as a result of what happened in the match and leading up to it, I had some kind of a release.
3
SPEAKER_01
How did you interpret it psychologically?
3
SPEAKER_01
Was it like some kind of, I mean, not to be spiritual or whatever, but some kind of superpower that was like,
3
SPEAKER_01
Like a lingering feeling like, holy shit, I, you know.
3
SPEAKER_02
I can t explain it.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I haven t really tried hard enough to try to.
3
SPEAKER_02
But something changed.
3
SPEAKER_02
Something happened there, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Something happened to me.
3
SPEAKER_02
I was sore for about three or four months afterwards.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s like it smoked out my entire body.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that whole summer.
3
SPEAKER_02
I was kind of sore and Yeah, and then after that like two or three years later.
3
SPEAKER_02
That s when I won the world championships Yeah, I mean all the matches are you know you get something from people like you know you study them you you take something from them people have an invisible crown and He had one and I think I took it from him Yeah
3
SPEAKER_01
Maybe that was the feeling of wearing the crown.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, maybe.
3
SPEAKER_01
What about all the trash talk?
3
SPEAKER_01
How much of that did you learn?
3
SPEAKER_01
Does that come naturally to you?
3
SPEAKER_01
You re one of the most charismatic, fun.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, there s always like respect behind it.
3
SPEAKER_01
I would say to me, and I m a fan of a lot of sports, you re one of the greatest trash talkers in all of sports that I ve ever seen because you re able to talk shit
3
SPEAKER_01
but there s so much love and respect behind it.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s just masterful.
3
SPEAKER_01
But you also get into people s heads in the moment.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s beautiful to watch, because it really gets to some people.
3
SPEAKER_01
So where does that come from?
3
SPEAKER_02
It s a powerful weapon, right?
3
SPEAKER_02
Your voice is a powerful, powerful weapon.
3
SPEAKER_02
And it s underutilized by so many athletes, because they think that
3
SPEAKER_02
it s not sportsmanlike or something like that.
3
SPEAKER_02
But the truth is, I mean, you can be a weak person, but with your voice, you can influence and change any number of things.
3
SPEAKER_02
And the same thing happens in a fight between two people.
3
SPEAKER_02
If you can just be a never-ending flow of negative encouragement to someone or suggestion,
3
SPEAKER_02
Anything can happen.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s a tool.
3
SPEAKER_02
And when you re fighting a person, you re not just fighting them.
3
SPEAKER_02
You re fighting everyone who s watching.
3
SPEAKER_02
You re fighting the crowd, the referees.
3
SPEAKER_02
And to get in the most ideal positions, situations, you need to use your voice.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and there s, for people who haven t seen, I definitely recommend you watch a bunch of arm wrestling matches, because there s a crowd really gets into it, and it feels like there s a really intimate connection with the crowd.
3
SPEAKER_01
I suppose because the crowd is allowed to be very close to you.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I love it.
3
SPEAKER_02
I want the crowd like right up on me.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
So sometimes,
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Whenever you talk to somebody, do you literally pick somebody from the crowd?
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah, I ll start fucking off his fans and I ll start talking to their wives or whatever.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, there s Jodi.
3
SPEAKER_00
She s pretty dangerous to listen to also.
3
SPEAKER_02
But yeah, one of his buddies, Mike Solaris, who s, you know,
3
SPEAKER_02
A really good arm wrestler was cheering for him, so I started to go after him.
3
SPEAKER_02
Smiling the whole time.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it s fun, right?
3
SPEAKER_02
It s fun.
4
SPEAKER_02
to listen to, but it s also, what s fun is how much it actually affects some of the people you re facing.
4
SPEAKER_01
They get frustrated.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s great to see.
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, you have to fight, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
A lot of people think things will be given to them.
4
SPEAKER_01
And the thing that I ve always believed from the time I was very young,
4
SPEAKER_01
I was convinced that our inevitable death was gonna come from aliens, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
Like some super aggressive, super violent species was gonna come and smoke us all.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, I m not like that.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m like, but as soon as one person is,
4
SPEAKER_01
then you re forced to have to accept it as reality, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
So I like to fight for every single thing.
4
SPEAKER_01
I like to try and be more and more aggressive.
4
SPEAKER_01
And if someone matches me, that s when I can use my endurance.
4
SPEAKER_01
And if they don t, then I have the tactical advantage.
4
SPEAKER_01
So that s kind of my balance point.
4
SPEAKER_02
And then, by the way, you also yell at the ref.
4
SPEAKER_02
I mean, the games, there s levels to this game.
4
SPEAKER_02
But the feeling sometimes when people get frustrated is like, okay, this person s cheating, or you re trying to get a good grip.
4
SPEAKER_02
before it goes, and I think some of the frustration in combination with the trash talk is, well, this person is cheating, but everybody is kind of trying to cheat, get an edge within the rules.
4
SPEAKER_01
So I try and just ramp it, ramp it, ramp it, but everybody s different.
4
SPEAKER_01
I ve learned how to play the game based off of the tools that I have physically.
4
SPEAKER_01
And for me, this works because, you know, my genetic makeup is more, I m more of a persistence hunter, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
So like I need to extend things and that works well for me.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, if I was more explosive, I probably wouldn t have the same strategies.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
By the way, for people who are watching, you re wearing a No Limits hoodie, which is one of your nicknames.
4
SPEAKER_02
I don t wash this thing too much.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s my bacterial shield to the world.
4
SPEAKER_02
Awesome.
4
SPEAKER_02
So you mentioned Jodi.
4
SPEAKER_02
She s often in your corner and does perhaps more trash talking than even you.
4
SPEAKER_02
So, I mean, if we could step away, she s an incredible human being, sort of as a fan, it s fun to watch the two of you, both when you re arm wrestling and just as people, you just see so much.
4
SPEAKER_02
I don t know, kindness and love radiating from the two of you whenever you re trash talking or talking about just random things or just talking about life.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s just a beautiful thing to watch.
4
SPEAKER_02
And thank you for sharing that with the world, but maybe can you, she paid me to ask you this, but what are the things you love about Jodi, your wife, Jodi Larratt?
4
SPEAKER_02
What are the ways she s affected your life?
4
SPEAKER_01
Jody and I go way back.
4
SPEAKER_01
We were in high school together.
4
SPEAKER_01
The thing that I admire most in people is bravery.
4
SPEAKER_01
To me, it s the most admirable quality.
4
SPEAKER_01
And Jodi always has inspired me, because she s such a fighter.
4
SPEAKER_01
If she believes that something s true, she does not back down.
4
SPEAKER_01
She will not.
4
SPEAKER_01
And not to say that she can t change her mind, because she can, but while she is convicted, she will not stop fighting.
4
SPEAKER_01
She s pulled me out of the fire repeatedly.
4
SPEAKER_01
We ve lived through so many things.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m very lucky.
4
SPEAKER_01
How does she made you a better arm wrestler?
4
SPEAKER_02
She s fed me.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I could see your videos of your house basically coming apart when she s not there.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, without Jodi, I m on the street living in a tent and yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Down by the river.
4
SPEAKER_00
Eating dog food, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
Bravery.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
What about love?
4
SPEAKER_02
How has love made you stronger?
4
SPEAKER_02
Now we re gonna make Devin uncomfortable.
4
SPEAKER_01
Love is difficult to accept.
4
SPEAKER_01
Love is one of those things that a lot of times you don t feel worthy of it.
4
SPEAKER_01
And so it s hard sometimes to accept someone s love.
4
SPEAKER_01
And someone who really loves you, they ll love you even when you don t.
4
SPEAKER_01
And here you go, you re gonna make me cry, Alex.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, Jodi and I have been through so much.
4
SPEAKER_01
And she s shown me how, you know, she supported me just repeatedly, repeatedly.
4
SPEAKER_02
Some of that is loyalty and patience and perseverance and all those things.
4
SPEAKER_02
That s like when love really shows itself.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s like sticking through together for years, even when you re through the shitty times.
4
SPEAKER_01
Love and faith are powerful forces in this universe.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, without them,
4
SPEAKER_01
that we can descend into darkness very quickly.
4
SPEAKER_01
As a world, even between people, when love and faith is destroyed, then we fall apart.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I ve been graced by the love that Jodie s given me.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s allowed me.
4
SPEAKER_01
to continue to build.
4
SPEAKER_01
When you have love between people, then you build together.
4
SPEAKER_01
I love my family.
4
SPEAKER_01
I love Canada.
4
SPEAKER_01
I love the arm wrestling community.
4
SPEAKER_01
I have a love for what we re trying to achieve as a human species.
4
SPEAKER_01
And when that falls apart, we don t have much.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, just with my boy there.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
You also mentioned you were in
4
SPEAKER_02
You once had a job where your death was a real possibility, so you were in the Canadian Special Forces.
4
SPEAKER_02
What did you take away from that experience, that time in your life?
4
SPEAKER_01
It was such a great life.
4
SPEAKER_01
Really, really loved it.
4
SPEAKER_01
Honestly, I never wanted to leave.
4
SPEAKER_01
I never thought I would leave.
4
SPEAKER_01
I thought I d be there my whole life.
4
SPEAKER_01
a real honor to get to serve.
4
SPEAKER_02
What did you get to do?
4
SPEAKER_02
What was the things you loved craftsmanship-wise, like fun things you get to do, learn and challenge yourself?
4
SPEAKER_02
And you mentioned sort of honor in terms of the serving part.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, my favorite thing about serving in the Special Forces was for sure the people that I worked with.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s probably the first thing I could say
4
SPEAKER_01
I never, I always felt like totally comfortable and putting my life in the other guy s hands.
4
SPEAKER_01
I was so happy to be in a place where I felt I could follow, like didn t matter.
4
SPEAKER_01
Like I knew that the people ahead of me,
4
SPEAKER_01
were incredible, I knew the people beside me were incredible.
4
SPEAKER_01
So just having that faith in your team, it s very special.
4
SPEAKER_01
And to know that they re there for a reason that has nothing to do with money.
4
SPEAKER_01
And that s what kind of brings everybody together, is you re there for a higher purpose.
4
SPEAKER_01
And in terms of being an adrenaline junkie, there s nothing like it.
4
SPEAKER_01
I mean, there s nothing like, you know, going out at night and fighting.
4
SPEAKER_01
And when I say fighting, like, my whole life I wanted to fight.
4
SPEAKER_01
And to me,
4
SPEAKER_01
There s a lot of, and look it, I ve said this in the past, and I think it s been a personal failure of mine, because I ve said things like, it s the highest level that you can do.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I don t believe that to be true anymore.
4
SPEAKER_01
But at the time, I thought it was the best way I could express my drives that I had, you know, to be a fighter.
4
SPEAKER_02
So your sense in the past and maybe in part now is that fighting is when humans get a chance to express themselves deeply.
4
SPEAKER_02
That mix of the bravery, the integrity, whatever that is that makes us human, that human spirit can really shine.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I don t believe that anymore.
4
SPEAKER_01
I believe that you can do that in any field, in any discipline.
4
SPEAKER_01
If you go hard enough, it all kind of starts to feel the same.
4
SPEAKER_01
But at the time, that expression to me was really, really awesome.
4
SPEAKER_01
I loved close quarter battle.
4
SPEAKER_01
That was my favorite thing.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s really the whole reason I was there.
4
SPEAKER_01
Can you describe close quarter battle?
4
SPEAKER_01
Cold-sport battle is is team fighting so and it can look a lot of different ways but basically it s ground troops doing some kind of a mission and it s the orchestrated movement that is the skill the orchestrated movement and the drills
4
SPEAKER_01
done quickly and accurately, it s very difficult.
4
SPEAKER_01
With communication?
4
SPEAKER_01
With communication.
4
SPEAKER_02
So it s basically cooperating together, communicating, there s some strategy, there s some adapting to the changing environment.
4
SPEAKER_01
And the more the team works together, the less communication there is.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
Uh, and that s an amazing thing to do, to be part of a machine, well, machine, a team of people who can fight together like that.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s, I think it s, it s, uh, we re really designed to do it like as good as we can fight as individuals.
4
SPEAKER_01
The thing that makes us really good is our ability to fight as, as a team.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that s one of the things that makes us really human is that collective intelligence and the social aspect.
4
SPEAKER_02
And fighting is the highest of stakes, so that social interaction under the highest of stakes really does bring out something that s deeply human.
4
SPEAKER_02
I mean, war in general brings out something deeply human.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s just, it s, I mean, obvious to say that it s tragic that it results in so much loss of life and well-being.
4
SPEAKER_02
Let me, if it s okay for a brief moment to take us back to,
4
SPEAKER_02
Arm wrestling, we did this offline, we talked about, you gave me some advice about arm wrestling, but maybe do a high-level overview of the different styles and strategies that we ve talked about.
4
SPEAKER_02
We talked about the importance of strength and power.
4
SPEAKER_02
but is there like offensive, defensive styles?
4
SPEAKER_02
Is there, we mentioned King s move.
4
SPEAKER_02
What would you classify your style as?
4
SPEAKER_02
It s nice for people that don t know, maybe even zoom back out.
4
SPEAKER_02
So arm wrestling is a sport where two people, you know,
4
SPEAKER_02
have to, when we talk about strictly the sport, put their elbow on a particular pad, means they have to keep that elbow on that pad, and they win when the back of one of their hands crosses some kind of, or basically touches the table.
4
SPEAKER_02
And when you actually lock up,
4
SPEAKER_02
you do so, depending on the organization, without straps, meaning there s just you, agree, it s like mutual agreement that you re going to clasp your hands in a way that s fair, and there s a referee that helps ensure that it s fair, but of course there s these little games going on.
4
SPEAKER_02
And then when you actually go all out with this battle, if there s no straps, you can slip out.
4
SPEAKER_02
So often you ll put the straps, which means you re, it s like marriage.
4
SPEAKER_02
You re committed for, like somebody will have to lose essentially.
4
SPEAKER_02
There s no pulling out.
4
SPEAKER_02
So that s sort of the battle within that.
4
SPEAKER_02
What are the different styles that you can speak to that people that don t know arm wrestling could understand?
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, we can start to kind of just dance around the subject a bit.
4
SPEAKER_01
I d say there s a lot of different types.
4
SPEAKER_01
There s specialists.
4
SPEAKER_01
And there s kind of blenders and people who are very versatile.
4
SPEAKER_01
A lot of guys win world championships on one singular move.
4
SPEAKER_01
They get just extremely crisp at, say, a hook or a top roll.
4
SPEAKER_01
And their style is very kind of focused.
4
SPEAKER_01
And you ll see it with a lot of athletes.
4
SPEAKER_01
kind of talk about a guy who s very active, a guy called Jerry Catarat.
4
SPEAKER_01
As soon as you think Jerry Catarat, he s got a very unique style, he s got a flop wrist press.
4
SPEAKER_01
So most of his technique is built around this one system.
4
SPEAKER_02
Flop wrist means your, what it sounds like.
4
SPEAKER_02
So your wrist is flopped, so it looks like you re pushing.
4
SPEAKER_01
So he is pushing from a losing position?
4
SPEAKER_01
No.
4
SPEAKER_01
He will be offensive.
4
SPEAKER_01
So he will be in a press so offensively, so he ll give his hand away so that he can get his shoulder behind it properly.
4
SPEAKER_01
So he doesn t...
4
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
4
SPEAKER_02
So you can press, press means put, like push.
4
SPEAKER_02
Push.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
Without having that hook position.
4
SPEAKER_01
Right.
4
SPEAKER_01
Which is what most people are always looking for.
4
SPEAKER_01
And Jerry s looking for it as well.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then, so example, there s another one.
4
SPEAKER_01
There s another specialist, Matt Mask.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
He s a top roller.
4
SPEAKER_01
Right?
4
SPEAKER_01
Basically, that s his great move, the top roll.
4
SPEAKER_01
And his other weapons aren t nearly as powerful.
4
SPEAKER_01
Just incredible top roll.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then you have a lot of athletes that are more blended, okay?
4
SPEAKER_01
They have a lot of good options.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think that I probably fall more into that category.
4
SPEAKER_01
You have people who are more speed guys, okay?
4
SPEAKER_01
So they try and do very little, I d call it attrition.
4
SPEAKER_01
Right.
4
SPEAKER_01
So a lot of people are very willing to trade energy because they have faith that their their gas tank or their pool eventually will tire the other person out.
4
SPEAKER_01
So anytime there s a trade, they ll trade.
4
SPEAKER_01
Whereas, you know, a guy like Travis Bajan.
4
SPEAKER_01
you know, he was very, very well known as being extremely explosive, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
But if the match stops, typically he s gonna lose, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
So based off of your genetics, your hands, you know, there s a lot of ways to skin it.
4
SPEAKER_02
So I think you said something like you re a 20 second guy.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s right, I m a 20 second guy.
4
SPEAKER_02
So what are the seconds we re talking about?
4
SPEAKER_02
So a lot of the power people, they wanna win in the first maybe five seconds.
4
SPEAKER_02
Even shorter.
4
SPEAKER_02
Just that first push, that first press.
4
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely, right to the pad, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
And so you re trying to hold off that attack.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, if I beat you in a second, we re not in the same world.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
When I m with my peer group, I will typically win 20 seconds and beyond.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s a typical win for me when I m with a peer.
4
SPEAKER_01
Whereas other guys, when they re with their peers, they ll win in a second, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
That s how they do it.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s the way they re built.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s the way they train.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, most guys at a higher level at all, it starts to get more and more difficult to be a specialist at the high level now.
4
SPEAKER_01
Some people just have little holes in their games.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s rare to get someone who can really do all the moves.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s very rare.
4
SPEAKER_01
What, um, where would you put Levon?
4
SPEAKER_01
Uh, I would not say he s a specialist.
4
SPEAKER_01
I d say his top role is the strongest move.
4
SPEAKER_01
Top role?
4
SPEAKER_01
Top role is the strongest move.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
Uh, and the interesting thing about the, the specialist versus the blender,
4
SPEAKER_01
There s a counter, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
Every move has a move that theoretically should be the right choice.
4
SPEAKER_01
So if you re a single move guy, uh, there s going to be a guy out there who will get you.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it ll be very difficult for you to beat that guy.
4
SPEAKER_01
But like when you come to like a tournament, typically specialists do much better in tournament scenarios because their singular move can get them through a tournament very quickly and efficiently.
5
SPEAKER_00
Whereas you get a blender in a tournament, they typically will have longer and more difficult matches.
5
SPEAKER_00
But in supermatch format, typically blenders do better.
5
SPEAKER_01
So we offline also talked about arm sumo or freedom arm wrestling.
5
SPEAKER_01
I don t know how you wanna call it.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I love freedom.
5
SPEAKER_01
Exactly, North American way.
5
SPEAKER_01
So this is this idea and I watched a few videos and it looks fun.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s basically removing the restriction of having to keep your elbow on the pad and just being able to arm wrestle over the whole table.
5
SPEAKER_01
I think you ve mentioned that the criticism that gets is it might be injury prone or something like that.
5
SPEAKER_01
So can you describe this arm sumo, freedom arm wrestling idea?
5
SPEAKER_00
When you come to freedom arm wrestling, basically it removes the limitation of a standard arm wrestling table.
5
SPEAKER_00
So basically every single thing is a freedom arm wrestling table.
5
SPEAKER_00
Some are better than others.
5
SPEAKER_00
All right.
5
SPEAKER_00
So looking for that nice table where we can kind of stand apart from each other and we re anatomically, you know, in a fairly safe position and the rules and freedom, the way you win is like the knuckles must either touch the tabletop or you hold it off the edge for a, for a three count.
5
SPEAKER_00
Right, so this is the main way to win.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes, you can foul, like if you lift your eyeball up, it s still a foul, but you have the entire playing surface.
5
SPEAKER_00
So your elbow s no longer limited to your 7x7 or 7x9 pad, so you can move it all over the table.
5
SPEAKER_00
You can move your body around the table a bit too.
5
SPEAKER_00
And if it s a big table, your body could largely be on the table.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
So it basically, it s like adjusting your ring size.
5
SPEAKER_00
So arm wrestling, you re fighting in a phone booth.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Right.
5
SPEAKER_00
So you re fighting in a field, you re fighting, you know, just bigger.
5
SPEAKER_00
So it just, it just makes the sport bigger.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
This is Japan.
5
SPEAKER_00
But even on a small table there, the,
5
SPEAKER_01
Even in a slightly larger phone booth, you can get a lot more fun and variety.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s very interesting to watch.
5
SPEAKER_00
I love it.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think it makes the sport bigger.
5
SPEAKER_00
I actually believe that it s the future of the sport.
5
SPEAKER_00
I really do.
5
SPEAKER_01
Because it makes it more accessible.
5
SPEAKER_01
You don t need the equipment.
5
SPEAKER_01
You can do it at a bar, all that kind of stuff.
5
SPEAKER_00
Less equipment requirements.
5
SPEAKER_00
Most kids start freedom.
5
SPEAKER_00
Most kids arm wrestle on school desks.
5
SPEAKER_00
And if you see a guy on the street, you re like, whatever.
5
SPEAKER_00
You can arm wrestle anywhere.
5
SPEAKER_00
You don t need to bring your table around with you.
5
SPEAKER_01
We talked about the elite level.
5
SPEAKER_01
If somebody was interested in starting in arm wrestling, or going from
5
SPEAKER_01
just like you go to the gym, you kind of lift, you ve arm wrestled a few times, trying to get better at it, trying to learn.
5
SPEAKER_01
How would you advise getting better to where you can beat your closest buddies, that first step?
5
SPEAKER_00
First step, I d say find people.
5
SPEAKER_00
Find people, find good people.
5
SPEAKER_00
Volume.
5
SPEAKER_00
We ll get with a club, get with people who know what they re doing, who can mentor you.
5
SPEAKER_01
And that s really cool, I realized there s a club in Austin.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m sure there s in a lot of places.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, they re everywhere.
5
SPEAKER_00
We got this app called Armbet.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Which is a app that helps you find other people there.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, very easy.
5
SPEAKER_00
But I mean, they re all over social networks.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s kind of widespread now.
5
SPEAKER_00
But yeah, find people, find people.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it s just much easier to learn with another person.
5
SPEAKER_00
And you ll get stronger that way.
5
SPEAKER_00
But I mean, do the lifts.
5
SPEAKER_00
If you go to the gym, just start doing the lifts.
5
SPEAKER_00
And right away, those will technically prepare you.
5
SPEAKER_01
What are the lifts?
5
SPEAKER_01
Can we describe?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so I d say if you want to just keep it very, very simple, let s just talk about three.
5
SPEAKER_00
There s much more than three, but when you talk about energy allocation, these three lifts, in my opinion, should be like 90% of your investment.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s very big, these three lifts.
5
SPEAKER_00
And the exact percentages, you can argue about it, but we ll start off with the cupping of the wrist.
5
SPEAKER_00
Just this, it s a simple thing.
5
SPEAKER_00
And do it with a cable.
5
SPEAKER_00
You can get a thicker diameter so it kind of is more out on your fingers where an armrest is gonna attack you.
5
SPEAKER_00
Because any good armrest is gonna attack your fingers.
5
SPEAKER_00
So like open hand.
5
SPEAKER_00
No.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, I mean, for health, yes, you could.
5
SPEAKER_00
But if you want to be really specific, you train exactly the way you would at a table in the position that you actually start the match.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then you re just doing this kind of... Yes, to your center.
5
SPEAKER_00
One of the big misconceptions in arm wrestling is that you re aiming for that pin pad.
5
SPEAKER_00
Right.
5
SPEAKER_00
No, the center.
5
SPEAKER_00
The chest up here.
5
SPEAKER_00
Bring it close to you.
5
SPEAKER_00
Make it come close to you, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
You see like whenever I do my exercises, the vector is always pulling straight towards me.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so just cupping close to you.
5
SPEAKER_00
The most dangerous thing that a person can do to me on an arm wrestling match is just pull me away from my body.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s a terrible thing for me.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so that cupping, that s a massive part of the sport.
5
SPEAKER_00
So now when you think, what does the cup do to the other person?
5
SPEAKER_00
If I cup, they get turned over, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
So this has to get really strong.
5
SPEAKER_00
This pronation.
5
SPEAKER_00
So.
5
SPEAKER_01
So to fight the, to fight that rolling.
5
SPEAKER_01
Exactly, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
So that s through the thumb.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh, so you put, got it.
5
SPEAKER_01
You put on the thumb and you put this motion.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Got it.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
And those two things, those two things together, this cupping and rolling, this is what s going to make the person s hand bend back.
5
SPEAKER_00
And once a person s hand is bent back, they re just, their whole game gets cut to pieces.
5
SPEAKER_00
Got it.
5
SPEAKER_00
They have very little good options.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s all like nasty stuff.
5
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
So those two things, that s a, that s a huge part of, of your, of your investment.
5
SPEAKER_00
Uh, rise.
5
SPEAKER_00
Always be climbing, yeah, exactly.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, those three simple things, that s what I would tell anybody to spend most of their time on if you wanna become an art wrestler.
5
SPEAKER_00
So, and to use bands would be good for this?
5
SPEAKER_00
Bands are great because they re easy to transport.
5
SPEAKER_00
The only problem I have with bands is like if you like to measure, you know, and if you like to be precise, bands just aren t that precise.
5
SPEAKER_01
Right, to have growth.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Just, I mean, it s just like, you know, you know exactly what you need.
5
SPEAKER_00
The prescription is kind of, a band is kind of like, and a lot of people, myself included, I like to, I like to know exactly my outputs.
5
SPEAKER_00
So, so weights.
5
SPEAKER_00
So it would be like cables?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yep.
5
SPEAKER_00
Cables are nice.
5
SPEAKER_00
Bands are great too.
5
SPEAKER_00
I, I, I mixed it too.
5
SPEAKER_00
Bands are, uh, when I kind of don t need to, they re more like easy for me.
5
SPEAKER_00
I, when I train bands, bands are dangerous because the acceleration is so high on them.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like when you screw up with band training, the acceleration is way faster than gravity.
5
SPEAKER_00
Right?
5
SPEAKER_00
So if you do something bad, it can.
5
SPEAKER_00
can make it go really much worse.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s funny that you didn t mention bicep curls or... Well, it s a chain.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s a chain.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, the idea, if you focus on these three, the other stuff catches up.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s all involved.
5
SPEAKER_01
This whole thing is involved.
5
SPEAKER_00
So, if you have an axe, right, the blade of the axe,
5
SPEAKER_00
That s these things, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
Like you need the pointy end of all your attacks to be awesome, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
If you have a super sharp ax, you could have a shitty hand.
5
SPEAKER_00
Exactly, yeah, right?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so focus on that, the pointy, the tip of the ax.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, the tip of the ax is so important, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
Like if I have an awesome bicep and I can t quite use it, what s it good for, right?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I think a lot of the motions with the wrist that you mentioned are,
5
SPEAKER_01
Just thinking about jiu-jitsu, especially in the gi, there s a lot of, I mean, there s so much importance to this, and people don t often work it explicitly.
5
SPEAKER_01
So many of the chokes require ability to, it s almost like exactly like arm wrestling.
5
SPEAKER_01
Because you re weak here, what s that called, flop wrist, and you re strong with the cup.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so just getting the muscle, whatever that s involved,
5
SPEAKER_01
the muscle, the turning, the pressure, because that s where also the choke comes.
5
SPEAKER_01
That little, the thing that makes you win in arm wrestling is also the thing that finishes the person when you have them grabbed.
5
SPEAKER_01
The strength is very similar.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s fascinating, actually.
5
SPEAKER_01
Of course, like you said, if you want to be very good, you should be doing the very specific, exact motion.
5
SPEAKER_00
So if I was going to do jujitsu, I d be working out with the gi.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, the problem is, you know, it s difficult to construct the exact, so you have to actually go with people and then they don t like being choked on, right?
5
SPEAKER_01
So like it s hard to, I m actually a big, we have these kinds of debates all the time is,
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, I m a big believer in drilling.
5
SPEAKER_01
I love doing something thousands of times.
5
SPEAKER_01
John Donaher, somebody I mentioned to you about, the jiu-jitsu folks here, they re less believers in drilling.
5
SPEAKER_01
They see the value of drilling.
5
SPEAKER_01
almost like the mind of going live and exploring ideas, it s that play.
5
SPEAKER_01
You don t need to do the thing 1,000 times.
5
SPEAKER_01
You just need to always be thinking about the little details that make you better.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then in action practicing, like developing the strength, the power, the explosive of the agility in action.
5
SPEAKER_01
So actually rolling.
5
SPEAKER_01
I agree with this, but I just,
5
SPEAKER_01
believe in volume more.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so you can accomplish it through volume.
5
SPEAKER_00
You can play a lot.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yes, exactly.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, that s, if you really want to get it good, as you re talking about, I mean, that s why a lot of these folks are training three times a day.
5
SPEAKER_01
They re doing, you know, they re putting in the hours, eight hours, nine hours, just... Oh, that s tough.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, my God.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, so a lot of them are not going hard.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s just being on the mat.
5
SPEAKER_01
Some of it is just sitting there talking through ideas, watching others or teaching, explaining stuff.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s not just physical.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s mental, too, because you re keeping in your mind.
5
SPEAKER_01
Some of the greatest, this is what they talk about, the wrestlers I ve talked with, the fighters, at the top of their career, they basically,
5
SPEAKER_01
George St.
5
SPEAKER_01
Pierre is like this, another fellow Canadian.
5
SPEAKER_01
He has stick figures in his head that he can t help.
5
SPEAKER_01
They re like in there.
5
SPEAKER_01
Because if you train enough hours, it s just gonna be in your head and they re all going to be playing around in your head.
5
SPEAKER_01
And some little detail over time, it s almost like computing or something like that, and that ends up having a result even though you re not physically doing anything.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s always in there.
5
SPEAKER_01
I do have to return to diet real quick.
5
SPEAKER_01
I know we re talking about pancakes.
5
SPEAKER_01
Let me, quite seriously, you are one of the, I mean, strongest athletes in the world for your sport.
5
SPEAKER_01
So you have to get big, you have to get powerful, you have to get strong.
5
SPEAKER_01
What is the right diet for you for that?
5
SPEAKER_01
What do you eat?
5
SPEAKER_01
How often do you eat?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, from the highest detail to the smallest, or the things that make you happy and feel good.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
I ve experimented with every diet.
5
SPEAKER_00
I ve done it all.
5
SPEAKER_00
I ve been a vegan.
5
SPEAKER_00
I ve done raw.
5
SPEAKER_00
I ve eaten only meat.
5
SPEAKER_00
I ve eaten balanced.
5
SPEAKER_00
I ve eaten like a bodybuilder.
5
SPEAKER_00
You name it, I ve probably tried it.
5
SPEAKER_00
I don t believe that it s as important in the sport of arm wrestling as it is perhaps in other sports.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, just to be very basic, I mean, if you re eating enough food, you re probably gonna be okay.
5
SPEAKER_00
So it s just calories.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s a lot, I mean, really, I mean, not to overcomplicate it, but I mean, that s where the conversation starts, are you eating enough food?
5
SPEAKER_00
And it can come in any number of ways, and I don t think it s as important as a lot of other people do.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m certainly irresponsible in a lot, but the thing is, is back to like volume, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
Like you need to, like if you want to be a super heavyweight, it s very different than if you want to be a weight category guy.
5
SPEAKER_00
If you want to be a weight category guy, I d say that you need to be more responsible, make better choices.
5
SPEAKER_00
If you want to be a super heavyweight, everything.
5
SPEAKER_01
so we re watching a delicious looking omelet, so eggs, bacon, syrup, so you don t care, carbs, so in all the things you try, so I mostly eat meat now, and I landed on that, there s several things, obviously I m not,
5
SPEAKER_01
but I do a lot of sport.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I was very surprised how my particular very specific body could perform better with only meat.
5
SPEAKER_01
Why better?
5
SPEAKER_01
The sports I do, the mind matters.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so for some reason, my mind is just clear.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I don t think, because it feels unhealthy.
5
SPEAKER_01
It just makes me feel really good.
5
SPEAKER_01
I don t think I would recommend it to anybody else.
5
SPEAKER_01
So it s interesting that that journey of just exploring can take you to figure out something about your own self.
5
SPEAKER_00
One of the most interesting things that I heard about nutrition was, I heard there was a... Actually, Doritos, I forgot about that.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m an idiot.
5
SPEAKER_00
Now, I d say over the last couple of years, I ve really gone into carbs a lot and high glycemic carbs.
5
SPEAKER_00
I feel like it s one of the best things you can do if you re working out really hard.
5
SPEAKER_00
Just add carbs.
5
SPEAKER_00
Cheers.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, exactly.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, where was I?
5
SPEAKER_01
Distracted.
5
SPEAKER_01
I forget everything.
5
SPEAKER_01
No, so you ve added the high glycemic carbs into the mix.
5
SPEAKER_01
So those help, but that s for mass building.
5
SPEAKER_00
Right, so there was a study that I heard about by somebody who s trying to identify heart attacks.
5
SPEAKER_00
They did this great big study, and at the end of it, I mean, didn t matter what the people ate, the most important thing was how they felt about the food that they were eating.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
So if you believe in the food, if you believe that it s going to do good things for you, if you allocate it the right way, it s going to have a positive impact.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I try and do that no matter what it is.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like I have my foods that I think do certain things.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so, you know, for me, I know that
5
SPEAKER_00
Actually, I learned about corn-fed pumps when I was overseas.
5
SPEAKER_00
I realized that I never used to eat crap, really didn t.
5
SPEAKER_00
I ate super clean all the time.
5
SPEAKER_00
When I was faced with imminent death more, I would be like, okay, I m going out tonight, let s have a couple ice cream bars.
5
SPEAKER_00
You know, like whatever.
5
SPEAKER_00
And what I realized is if I eat like an entire bag of chips or like a bunch of chocolate bars,
5
SPEAKER_00
and then I go and have a workout, my workout will be incredible.
5
SPEAKER_00
It ll be incredible.
5
SPEAKER_00
There s something about easily processed carbohydrates that will continue to quickly get into your blood as fast as you can burn it.
5
SPEAKER_00
And there s something about that that will give you incredible blood flow, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
And also your mind plugging in, enjoying that, and then believing it works, and that s how it makes it work better.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I feel that way.
5
SPEAKER_01
I think this is really not, this has been frustrating to me about the health culture in the United States, and the studies that are done.
5
SPEAKER_01
You look at the importance of sleep, the importance of X diet, all those things.
6
SPEAKER_00
those kinds of things, I wish incorporated into that would be your mental relationship with all these things.
6
SPEAKER_00
So for example, people that tell me, well, your sleep schedule is insane.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yes, perhaps, but also it s insane because I m doing what I love and I don t see it as a problem.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I think that s really important to understand.
6
SPEAKER_00
If you re sleeping crazy hours,
6
SPEAKER_00
is not affecting your stress and is actually making you happier.
6
SPEAKER_00
You re drawing some kind of source of happiness and pleasure and satisfaction, like being awake when others aren t.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s like the Mike Tyson thing or something, like training when you ve convinced yourself everybody s sleeping and therefore you re somehow training much better.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s powerful even if you look statistically six hours may be worse than eight hours, or four hours may be worse than six hours.
6
SPEAKER_00
So the mind is a powerful thing, super powerful.
6
SPEAKER_01
But if you wanna be a super heavyweight, eat.
6
SPEAKER_01
You gotta eat like stupid amounts all the time, yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
You have to test your digestive system.
6
SPEAKER_00
What s your favorite meal, by the way?
6
SPEAKER_00
Just if you had to, you know.
6
SPEAKER_01
You know, I am, I do, oh jeez, I like so much food, it s tough.
6
SPEAKER_01
But I d say the food that I rely on a lot when I m getting ready to compete is sushi.
6
SPEAKER_01
Just because it normally comes in an all-you-can-eat format.
6
SPEAKER_01
So I love to go and just binge all you can eat buffets.
6
SPEAKER_01
Sushi is just super convenient.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
If I was a sushi all you can eat buffet place, I d be terrified when I saw you.
6
SPEAKER_00
Have you had barbecue at Texas?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I love it.
6
SPEAKER_00
I love it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
So you, just a small tangent on this, you faced the mountain.
6
SPEAKER_00
You have four, first of all, you arm wrestled them.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s interesting to ask, so this is the mountain from the Game of Thrones.
6
SPEAKER_00
Strong man, one of the strongest people in the world, for a time, the strongest person in the world.
6
SPEAKER_00
What was it like, I know, sort of, you guys maybe weren t going 1,000%, but what s it like?
6
SPEAKER_00
Well, he probably wasn t going 1,000%.
6
SPEAKER_00
But it s interesting to think, what does that strength feel like?
6
SPEAKER_00
So it s a specialized strength in another sport.
6
SPEAKER_00
What did it feel like?
6
SPEAKER_00
How strong was he?
6
SPEAKER_00
What are some kind of deep insights he drawn from that battle?
6
SPEAKER_01
I feel like if we were to go back a thousand years,
6
SPEAKER_01
And if you give him armor and a two-handed sword, he will just rip across the landscape.
6
SPEAKER_00
And no one will stop him.
6
SPEAKER_00
So this is the boxing match you can t do, but there s also a video of them arm wrestling.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, what a Titan though.
6
SPEAKER_01
What a Titan, you know a guy like that tall Yeah, strong fit disciplined.
6
SPEAKER_01
I mean he is he s quite a warrior 419 pounds.
6
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, he s he s incredibly impressive.
6
SPEAKER_01
I really like Hap Thor and I like Eddie Hall too and I was just so I m just so caught up with the drama okay, so
6
SPEAKER_01
So Eddie Hall and Hapthor Bjornsson, two of the strongest legendary strongmen that we have, and they were the coolest, they were the top when strongman was really super cool.
6
SPEAKER_01
I don t know all the details, but they legit hit each other.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like legit.
6
SPEAKER_01
So I think it kind of stems, I don t know, like I say, I m not right there with them, but
6
SPEAKER_01
Eddie won the World s Strongest Man event or something one year.
6
SPEAKER_01
And the thing, it was one of those victories where Hapthor was not accepting of his defeat.
6
SPEAKER_01
And there was a little bit of back and forth.
6
SPEAKER_01
Basically, from what I understand, they were gonna fight like the knight of the World s Strongest Man.
6
SPEAKER_01
And they kinda got pulled apart.
6
SPEAKER_01
And this heat between them got translated into a potential boxing match.
6
SPEAKER_01
So it s very real, it s a very real fight.
6
SPEAKER_01
So you have the two strongest dudes on the planet are gonna fight each other.
6
SPEAKER_01
So I ve been like, you know, because arm wrestling is strong, man, it s kind of similar communities.
6
SPEAKER_01
Who do you got?
6
SPEAKER_01
If you were giving me financial advice.
6
SPEAKER_01
I am so bad.
6
SPEAKER_01
I always call it wrong.
6
SPEAKER_01
They re very different.
6
SPEAKER_01
I see Hapthor as being, you know, Eddie Hall is slimming down.
6
SPEAKER_01
Is that what you mean?
6
SPEAKER_01
I see Hapthor as a bit more regimented.
6
SPEAKER_01
Um, but I see Eddie Hall as like way more barbaric and like, I think he s a little bit more athletic, but Hapthorne is bigger.
6
SPEAKER_01
And, uh, and you know, they ve chosen slightly different paths to prepare for the match, but, but what happened was like, they were about to fight and Eddie, Eddie Hall blew his bicep.
6
SPEAKER_01
So me, I was getting ready for LeVon in December.
6
SPEAKER_01
We were supposed to arm wrestle in December, but he s got his movie.
6
SPEAKER_01
And so I was like, okay, I can kind of get away from the sport just a little bit, broaden my base.
6
SPEAKER_01
That happened.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I was like,
6
SPEAKER_01
Oh, an opportunity.
6
SPEAKER_01
You stepped in.
6
SPEAKER_01
An opportunity to fight.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m like, I ll do it, so.
6
SPEAKER_00
How much training?
6
SPEAKER_00
You trained a little bit, so can you tell about your own decision to do that?
6
SPEAKER_00
What was the training like?
6
SPEAKER_00
What was the experience like?
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, oh, it was so much fun.
6
SPEAKER_01
It was so much fun.
6
SPEAKER_01
So basically, I made a funny video and I sent it to the organizers of Core Sports that I would do it.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m like, I ll do it.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m sure they got 1,000 people who wanted to do it.
6
SPEAKER_01
But I m like, I m like, listen, I m like, I, I m an old man.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like I m gimped up like everywhere outside the arm wrestling lanes.
6
SPEAKER_01
Uh, I said, but, but I will 100% like if you let me fight him, I ll, I ll give it my all.
6
SPEAKER_01
And uh, and whatever.
6
SPEAKER_01
They didn t get back to me.
6
SPEAKER_01
They re like, yeah, whatever.
6
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
6
SPEAKER_01
So then, so then they call me on a Friday, like five weeks before the event and they re like, Hey Devon, were you serious?
6
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, Oh shit.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, yes, I was serious.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I ll do it.
6
SPEAKER_01
And they re like, okay.
6
SPEAKER_01
They re like, it s down to you and like two other people.
6
SPEAKER_01
We ll get back to you in a day or two, but you would do it.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, okay.
6
SPEAKER_01
So they got back to me on Sunday.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m like, so right away I m like skipping rope and I m like, and I m so, I only arm wrestle legs.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s all I do.
6
SPEAKER_01
So what was your, you did some striking training.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so I went to this guy that, he was awesome, Zach Bambushida there.
6
SPEAKER_01
That was it, from TriStar.
6
SPEAKER_01
Do you know for us the hobby?
6
SPEAKER_01
And yes, people in the comments, I will interview him on this podcast.
6
SPEAKER_01
He s brilliant, right?
6
SPEAKER_01
He s an incredible guy.
6
SPEAKER_01
So right away, like I had no idea about the fight community across Canada, really.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I got like,
6
SPEAKER_01
by the fifth message that said, you must train with for us.
6
SPEAKER_01
Uh, I was like, okay, called him up.
6
SPEAKER_01
He was incredible right away.
6
SPEAKER_01
He s like, yeah, you can come and we ll just work with you.
6
SPEAKER_01
So I got, I got the call.
6
SPEAKER_01
I called him on like Monday at two o clock by like seven o clock.
6
SPEAKER_01
I had my things packed and I went to Montreal and I spent four weeks in, in the fighter dorms.
6
SPEAKER_00
Just humbling yourself.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
Every day, just getting punched in the face, you know, uh, over and over, uh, going for runs with all like, they re all like Olympians and pro fighters living in the dorms.
6
SPEAKER_01
Super cool dudes.
6
SPEAKER_01
They were so good to me.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, there s a good video of you and Faraz just talking.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t remember which stage this was, but- This is early.
6
SPEAKER_00
But you were already beginning to get humbled.
6
SPEAKER_01
Oh, man, I knew.
6
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I knew what I was getting into.
6
SPEAKER_01
I knew it was gonna be a losing battle, but I felt like the opportunity to fight Thor, how cool is that?
6
SPEAKER_01
I had to do it.
6
SPEAKER_01
I love the process and I learned a lot from doing it.
6
SPEAKER_01
The dorms, I wanna do something like that with arm wrestling.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think we re big enough now that we can have these kind of dorms, frat houses, whatever you wanna call it.
6
SPEAKER_00
What s the dorm like?
6
SPEAKER_00
So you re basically staying there, food is there.
6
SPEAKER_00
You mentioned, what was the word you used, administration?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, exactly, that s it.
6
SPEAKER_01
So it removes all of that.
6
SPEAKER_01
Makes it so simple.
6
SPEAKER_01
You can just focus.
6
SPEAKER_01
The gym is here.
6
SPEAKER_01
you live here, you know, that your life becomes simple.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
So there s a guy named Jimmy Pedro here in America.
6
SPEAKER_00
He s a famous coach.
6
SPEAKER_00
There s a place up in Boston.
6
SPEAKER_00
He has kind of a dorm like that too.
6
SPEAKER_00
And that becomes essential when the community is small but you re trying to do epic things like win an Olympic gold.
6
SPEAKER_00
So you have to really put the people together in these kind of minimalist conditions where they just focus on the training, focus, focus, focus.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it wasn t enough time.
6
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I trained for about three or four weeks, but I loved the journey.
6
SPEAKER_00
What are some of the fun things you enjoyed?
6
SPEAKER_00
So you did mostly striking, did you?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I guess it was.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it was boxing.
6
SPEAKER_00
It was straight up boxing.
6
SPEAKER_00
Boxing, yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
What are some things that were transferable?
6
SPEAKER_00
What are some cool things you learned from that?
6
SPEAKER_00
So from the world of armor, have you taken anything back?
6
SPEAKER_00
Like some training regimens, ideas about training, even movements?
6
SPEAKER_00
Because for us it s a unique mind as well for training.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
I don t know, I mean, I ve gone very far down the path of arm wrestling.
6
SPEAKER_01
Boxing and arm wrestling are very different.
6
SPEAKER_01
They re very different sports.
6
SPEAKER_01
The physicality required is very different.
6
SPEAKER_01
The mentality, I mean, it s fighting, so it s another form of fighting, which is cool.
6
SPEAKER_01
The big things that I took back from it, the things that I loved about it was I had to run again.
6
SPEAKER_01
So really work on endurance.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I was going for runs with guys in the dorms and they would just destroy me.
6
SPEAKER_01
It was so bad.
6
SPEAKER_00
How did you feel in the actual boxing in terms of endurance?
6
SPEAKER_00
Were you able to?
6
SPEAKER_00
It s a torture.
6
SPEAKER_01
It was terrible.
6
SPEAKER_01
And the thing is, it was so crazy for me because I really was good once upon a time.
6
SPEAKER_01
I really was.
6
SPEAKER_01
Physically, I had incredible full body endurance.
6
SPEAKER_01
But being so specialized, I realized how much I had slipped.
6
SPEAKER_01
And
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it was it was fun to try and regain.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think it s affected my body composition.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think since that training, I ve become much more lean.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think it was a very healthy thing for me to do, like health wise.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like I always think that, you know, when you re far away from competition, it s really good to kind of spread out really good.
6
SPEAKER_01
So I think that in that way, also for your mind.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
Just like.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
So something about clearing your
6
SPEAKER_00
I think you ve talked about this.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s like you re basically taking steps back before you take steps forward.
6
SPEAKER_00
I forget how you call it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, the wave.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, under.
6
SPEAKER_01
You know, you have to go under.
6
SPEAKER_01
You gotta.
6
SPEAKER_01
You know, if you wanna go above the line, you have to spend some time beneath it.
6
SPEAKER_01
And yeah, I was definitely beneath the line for a long time.
6
SPEAKER_01
But Mountain, I mean, like the interesting thing was as incredible as he is,
6
SPEAKER_01
You know, like, what a monster.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I think if you had had him training in boxing, you know, for a long time and like from his youth, I think he would, you know, the guy could be world champion.
6
SPEAKER_01
But, you know, to be so specialized and then to switch, you re at a disadvantage.
6
SPEAKER_01
And also, like, I know from just fighting guys in the gym in TriStar,
6
SPEAKER_01
Some of those guys were way scarier for real.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like as scary as Thor is like there s guys in that tri-star gym that don t look like anything that would murder me much worse, much worse.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
But also, you know, that s the difference between being in the gym and under the lights, too.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, GSB is an example, George St.
6
SPEAKER_00
Pierre is an example of somebody that maybe doesn t look terrifying.
6
SPEAKER_00
He s a tri-star.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yep, he trains a tri-star, but he s quite, he s super nice, super humble, but is terrifying when he s fighting.
6
SPEAKER_00
Right.
6
SPEAKER_00
He s dominating people.
6
SPEAKER_00
You mentioned
6
SPEAKER_00
death, and your Canadian special forces, and in general, thinking about mortality.
6
SPEAKER_00
Do you think about your death?
6
SPEAKER_00
Do you contemplate the end, that this thing, that this ride ends?
6
SPEAKER_00
All the time.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, from, I ve thought about death from a young age.
6
SPEAKER_01
Are you afraid of it?
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I hate it.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I don t want to die.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, definitely, definitely don t want to die.
6
SPEAKER_01
But there s times when I can rid myself of it.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
But for sure, I mean, I m not, I m not happy that, you know, death is inevitable.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I m not happy that, potentially, it s inevitable for all of us.
6
SPEAKER_01
But it does, you know, I like to fight against it.
6
SPEAKER_00
If you could be immortal, would you choose to?
6
SPEAKER_00
That s my only wish.
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh, see, but here s the thing.
6
SPEAKER_00
The point is to have that wish.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s like the all-you-can-eat buffet at sushi.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s that sushi s more delicious if you have a limit.
6
SPEAKER_01
Do you have a, oh, well, I don t know.
6
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I don t think I get sick of stuff.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m very simple.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I don t think I would get tired of it.
6
SPEAKER_01
I really don t.
6
SPEAKER_01
I mean, if someone would pose it to you, do you wanna live forever?
6
SPEAKER_01
You would choose no?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I would choose no.
6
SPEAKER_01
Choose no.
6
SPEAKER_00
Well, my answer s probably yes.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like, no, I would, it s more like the snooze button.
6
SPEAKER_00
Or you could go to sleep.
6
SPEAKER_00
But it s very difficult in the moment to go to sleep, but if I m allowed to live forever, I m going to delay death.
6
SPEAKER_00
all the crazy, all the ambitious goals, all the, because there s always time.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s fine, but there is tomorrow then.
6
SPEAKER_00
But there is tomorrow, but see, I think that takes away from the richness of the lived experience of just each moment.
6
SPEAKER_00
I think the richness of each moment comes from saying, I could die tonight.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like that, it tastes delicious because you re gonna die.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m afraid if you re not, I m afraid all of that goes away.
6
SPEAKER_00
All of that magic goes away if you can live forever.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
6
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
6
SPEAKER_01
But I ll tell you, every time I have a near-death experience or think I m gonna die, I definitely live better afterwards.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, like it s always been that way, but yeah, no.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s why the Stoics, you know, they really preach contemplating immortality often.
6
SPEAKER_00
It kind of reminds you, this whole thing could just end any moment and it makes you really appreciate.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I don t know, I don t know.
6
SPEAKER_00
Certainly improving the quality of life is important, but,
6
SPEAKER_00
Part of me thinks that immortality is not as fun as we would like to imagine.
6
SPEAKER_01
Do you think that maybe what you re building, potentially, is immortal?
6
SPEAKER_00
Well, that s what I definitely think about with robots.
6
SPEAKER_00
if they were to have a human-like experience and be able to interact with humans in a deep, meaningful way, I think they too have to be mortal in some fundamental way that means mortal.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like their ride has to end as well because they won t be able to interact with humans deeply unless that s the case.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like to have,
6
SPEAKER_00
To have fear, to have love, the ability to suffer, the ability to miss somebody, I think scarcity is important.
6
SPEAKER_00
You have to be able to truly lose somebody.
7
SPEAKER_00
to fear things, you have to truly have the risk of destroying yourself.
7
SPEAKER_00
And to have a sense of what it means to be a self.
7
SPEAKER_00
you have to be able to lose it.
7
SPEAKER_00
So if you re immortal, you re just going to be, I feel like you re going to be like a toaster, an intelligent toaster that just serves.
7
SPEAKER_00
Such a negative perspective on it.
7
SPEAKER_00
On immortality?
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, just think, well, now you can get all those things done that you wanna do.
7
SPEAKER_01
I hope you re right, I hope you re right.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
I mean, potentially, you could invest even harder because you re like, wow, I m actually gonna be able to get all this stuff done.
7
SPEAKER_00
I think about this a lot.
7
SPEAKER_00
I hope you re right, but I fear that the drive to create, I can even do more, all of that disappears if you have all the time in the world.
7
SPEAKER_00
I just know how lazy I am.
7
SPEAKER_00
And if I have all the time in the world, I m just gonna sit there and just watch the stupidest YouTube videos for the rest of all eternity.
7
SPEAKER_00
Now, eternity s a long time.
7
SPEAKER_00
Eat Doritos, eat Cheetos, and just get fatter and fatter.
7
SPEAKER_00
I can get in shape later.
7
SPEAKER_00
There s always time.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s like a long period of contemplation.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
So for the first thousand years, it ll be the Dorito period of the Lex life.
7
SPEAKER_01
You could be like Jabba the Hutt for a thousand years.
7
SPEAKER_00
You mentioned aliens, very important topic.
7
SPEAKER_00
Do you actually think about this?
7
SPEAKER_00
There s been an increased interest, there s been increased UFO sightings and encounters, all that kind of stuff.
7
SPEAKER_00
The US government at least releasing data, releasing videos of UFO sightings.
7
SPEAKER_00
pilots, pilot observations and from airplanes of UFOs.
7
SPEAKER_00
Do you think about this kind of stuff?
7
SPEAKER_00
Because you mentioned in the following context, you mentioned like, us humans will get our shit together when the aliens eventually come.
7
SPEAKER_00
What do you make of all the sightings?
7
SPEAKER_00
Is that something you think about?
7
SPEAKER_00
I thought about it a lot when I was younger.
7
SPEAKER_01
And I ve just, I made my conclusions and
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I don t think that there s a possibility that there aren t aliens.
7
SPEAKER_01
I would think it would be impossible for there not to be aliens.
7
SPEAKER_01
I feel like this is pretty good real estate, so you d probably want it, but we already might be, well, I don t even think might.
7
SPEAKER_01
I mean, it s probably quite likely that we are, to some degree, aliens.
7
SPEAKER_01
I mean, all life is probably, to some degree, alien.
7
SPEAKER_00
I like the real estate, so the resources, but we re also kind of interesting.
7
SPEAKER_00
whatever this ant colony of living organisms that we ve created, it s kind of interesting to study.
7
SPEAKER_00
I tend to believe that the alien civilizations that are going to reach us or have reached us are far more intelligent.
7
SPEAKER_00
just orders of magnitude more intelligent than us.
7
SPEAKER_00
And so it s going to be very difficult, both ways actually, for us to understand them and for them to dumb themselves down enough to understand us.
7
SPEAKER_00
So they might even just miss our existence altogether.
7
SPEAKER_00
I tend to believe, I don t know what you think, that we re not that special in terms of all the life forms in the universe.
7
SPEAKER_00
There s a lot of cool stuff out there.
7
SPEAKER_01
It has to be.
7
SPEAKER_00
But to us, we re special.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, well, that s all that matters, right?
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
Even the human species is the most special to us humans.
7
SPEAKER_00
There could be much more special species here on Earth that we re just totally oblivious to, like trees.
7
SPEAKER_00
On a scale of thousands of years, maybe they re onto something.
7
SPEAKER_00
Lex, you know,
7
SPEAKER_01
I think that so much of what makes a person special is what they pass on, your kids.
7
SPEAKER_01
But I think that you are quite special because you re part of this thing that s potentially giving birth to the next thing.
7
SPEAKER_00
The robots.
7
SPEAKER_00
The robots.
7
SPEAKER_00
I should say, the funny thing is, while talking to Devin, during this podcast, I had a doorbell ring, had to go downstairs, and there was a big box, medicine box, with a new-legged robot.
7
SPEAKER_00
So...
7
SPEAKER_00
the hilarity of you saying that is, because that robot is actually going to likely be the main robot that I show to the world in the coming months, because that has the, that s the highest compute level in that robot.
7
SPEAKER_00
So I ve been playing a lot with legged robots, the four legs, like a dog.
7
SPEAKER_00
I like all robots, but there s something about when a robot has legs, it s able to communicate
7
SPEAKER_00
It s able to connect with humans in some kind of deep way, in the way a dog can.
7
SPEAKER_00
Just show affection.
7
SPEAKER_00
Something about step, step, step, step, and then the robot realizes you re here and then it steps and then notices you in the way the dog does and raises its head.
7
SPEAKER_00
It makes me feel...
7
SPEAKER_00
noticed and heard in the same way I do when a dog notices me.
7
SPEAKER_00
That excitement, that stupid excitement of like, yes, fellow living organism.
7
SPEAKER_00
And what excites me about legged robots is that holy shit, it s possible to engineer this.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s possible to create that feeling.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I wonder where that can go.
7
SPEAKER_00
There s a lot of negative possible trajectories, but I have a sense that there s positive ones too.
7
SPEAKER_00
Add more love to the world.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think so because I, so there s this fear of robots that they become super intelligent and run away from us humans and basically become so intelligent and then they almost just not giving a damn will destroy us.
7
SPEAKER_00
But I think in order for robots to become intelligent, they have to integrate themselves with society.
7
SPEAKER_00
So they, by the very nature of how they become intelligent, have to bring us along.
7
SPEAKER_00
So it s not that there ll be this separate thing.
7
SPEAKER_00
They have to, like we ll have robots in the home, they ll be interacting with us, you have human kids, and you have a bunch of robots, you have robot friends, you have human friends.
7
SPEAKER_00
And the robots make your,
7
SPEAKER_00
human-to-human relationships much more meaningful and richer.
7
SPEAKER_00
They bring more love to the world, but it s integrated.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s not like they ll be developing smarter and smarter as sentient beings by themselves.
7
SPEAKER_00
I think that s very difficult to do.
7
SPEAKER_00
You have to be doing that together with humans, and so we ll come for the ride.
7
SPEAKER_00
There s technical things.
7
SPEAKER_00
like we might merge like cyborgs more and more.
7
SPEAKER_00
Well, we already saw our cyborgs, right?
7
SPEAKER_00
With the phones and so on, but more and more, so with Elon and Neuralink, deeper integration of robots and AI into, increasing the bandwidth at which they can communicate.
7
SPEAKER_00
So if we do implants in the brain,
7
SPEAKER_00
I think, again, a lot of people are really nervous about this, as am I, but I think there s a lot of trajectories that are positive there.
7
SPEAKER_00
That, to me, is exciting.
7
SPEAKER_00
And also, I just don t think it s possible to stop this development, so we should steer it.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
I mean, you must have watched the movie Terminator, right?
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, of course, I love Terminator.
7
SPEAKER_00
I love Schwarzenegger.
7
SPEAKER_01
My favorite movie of all time.
7
SPEAKER_01
I mean, that s the big fear, right?
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, what s the conclusion with Terminator?
7
SPEAKER_00
Isn t ultimately humanity wins?
7
SPEAKER_00
I think they re at like Terminator 8 now.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s interesting, actually.
7
SPEAKER_00
I was going to bring this up as you were talking about it.
7
SPEAKER_00
But China and the United States, I actually don t know where Canada is on this, but they both have agreed that they re not going to put limits on autonomous weapon system development.
7
SPEAKER_00
They re not going to.
7
SPEAKER_00
They re not going to.
7
SPEAKER_00
So because China said we re not going to, and now US officially announced that we re not, we can t.
7
SPEAKER_01
Well, you can t.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s like, you never could, right?
7
SPEAKER_01
As soon as it exists and it s better, people will use it.
7
SPEAKER_00
Well, but you, there s been a global ban on bioweapons.
7
SPEAKER_00
So you were able to come to an agreement there that we re not going to use biological weapons in war.
7
SPEAKER_00
So it was, a lot of people are really upset that in the case of,
7
SPEAKER_00
AI-driven weapons, the world said, nope, that s okay.
7
SPEAKER_00
And so now you have this potential for greater and greater automation in drones, for example, in picking bombing locations.
7
SPEAKER_00
so the area at which they attack, and so you get, some of that stuff that you mentioned that drew you to the military is that teamwork between humans, that decision making.
7
SPEAKER_00
So there s strategy, but built into that team is a deep humanity, like,
7
SPEAKER_00
Even when there s an enemy, there s lines that you are aware of, of what is ethical and what is not, what is just and what is not, and it s so easy for a machine to miss all of that, plow through it, and do deeply inhumane acts, commit atrocities, that s something that
7
SPEAKER_00
worries a lot of people.
7
SPEAKER_00
Because, yeah, an AI-based war is just, it s terrifying, especially with cybersecurity, which is becoming more and more of an issue, which is hacking, sort of people that look a lot like me being the warriors of the future, which is meaning people behind a keyboard versus,
7
SPEAKER_00
versus the traditional warriors?
7
SPEAKER_00
Probably inevitable.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
And terrifying.
7
SPEAKER_01
It is, it is.
7
SPEAKER_01
But I think if you believe that it s possible, it s certainly gonna happen.
7
SPEAKER_01
Like at some point, it s just when.
7
SPEAKER_01
Right, when does it happen?
7
SPEAKER_01
Anyway.
7
SPEAKER_00
So that, I mean, to me, I m ultimately optimistic about the future.
7
SPEAKER_00
And to me, I m excited about the world with AI.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m even excited about the metaverse and all these kinds of things.
7
SPEAKER_00
Living more and more in the digital space, in the virtual reality.
7
SPEAKER_00
I think, so it s a part of me that grew up in the non-internet world, non-computer world.
7
SPEAKER_00
It says, oh, kids these days with their video games.
7
SPEAKER_00
There s part of me that s like that.
7
SPEAKER_00
But I think technology at its best can bring out the best of humanity.
7
SPEAKER_00
And so I think virtual reality, all of these things, over time, we ll figure out how to,
7
SPEAKER_00
how to fix it to bring out the humanity.
7
SPEAKER_00
Social networks, the first generation of social networks, now Facebook, Twitter, and so on, they have so many problems.
7
SPEAKER_00
They re bringing out the worst in people.
7
SPEAKER_00
But I think we re learning from that, and I think the next generation of social networks will be better and better and better.
7
SPEAKER_00
So I m optimistic, but of course, you know, one reason we may have not seen aliens yet, obviously, like in a way that s obvious, is because once you get clever and smart and have all this cool technology, you destroy yourself.
7
SPEAKER_00
And we sure as humans are pretty close to that.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, there might be that limit that is hard to get right.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m hoping we get all our aggression between nations out through arm wrestling competition.
7
SPEAKER_00
Right?
7
SPEAKER_01
Just all of that.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God.
7
SPEAKER_01
Wouldn t that be great if it was that simple?
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
Do you know if there s another over-the-top type movie to be made?
7
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
There s always stuff in the works.
7
SPEAKER_01
There s a tournament called Over the Top in Australia that s a couple months away.
7
SPEAKER_01
I think they re doing an all-over-the-top scene.
7
SPEAKER_01
There are arm wrestling movies that are being made right now.
7
SPEAKER_01
Actually, there s a documentary that s filming me for this whole LaVon thing.
7
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, we re probably due for another big one.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
But you re also, just with your YouTube channel, you re doing a lot for the sport.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s really cool to see.
7
SPEAKER_00
Just being genuine, but just being like, looking not like you re looking today, but just like.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
Just the beard.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I m normally in that.
7
SPEAKER_00
Just like sleepy, you know, and just putting yourself out there completely as you are.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s a beautiful thing.
7
SPEAKER_00
The best thing about the sport is it brings people together.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s it.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, the community, the folks I got to interact with, just so awesome, so excited, so full of kindness.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m definitely going to find the club here and start working on my arm wrestling game.
7
SPEAKER_00
Devin, this is such a huge honor that you would spend your valuable time, you come down to Austin, you would
7
SPEAKER_00
hang out with me and do this conversation.
7
SPEAKER_00
This was awesome.
7
SPEAKER_00
Super cool to talk to you, Lex, yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
As I mentioned, in case people, people I m sure will tell me.
7
SPEAKER_00
So I hang out with Joe Rogan all the time.
7
SPEAKER_00
He s a friend.
7
SPEAKER_00
I told him that he should talk to Devin.
7
SPEAKER_00
He s going through some stuff currently.
7
SPEAKER_00
But I m sure, I hope the conversation between you, Devin, and Joe happens eventually.
7
SPEAKER_00
That would be epic as well, because he s,
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, he loves fighting.
7
SPEAKER_00
He loves fighting.
7
SPEAKER_00
He loves wrestling.
7
SPEAKER_00
He loves strength.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I think all of those are like so perfectly encapsulated in the sport of arm wrestling.
7
SPEAKER_00
So thank you so much for talking to me.
7
SPEAKER_01
Thanks so much, Lex.
7
SPEAKER_00
Thanks for listening to this conversation with Devon Larratt.
7
SPEAKER_00
To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description.
7
SPEAKER_00
And now, let me leave you with some words from Miyamoto Musashi.
7
SPEAKER_00
The only reason a warrior is alive is to fight, and the only reason a warrior fights is to win.
7
SPEAKER_00
Thank you for listening, and hope to see you next time.