0
SPEAKER_10
 Bring a little optimism into your life with The Bright Side, a new kind of daily podcast from Hello Sunshine, hosted by me, Danielle Robay.
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SPEAKER_10
And me, Simone Boyce.
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SPEAKER_11
Every weekday, we're bringing you conversations about culture, the latest trends, inspiration, and so much more.
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I am so excited about this podcast, The Bright Side.
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SPEAKER_00
You guys are giving people a chance to shine a light on their lives, shine a light on a little advice that they want to share.
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 Listen to The Bright Side on America's number one podcast network, iHeart.
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SPEAKER_01
Open your free iHeart app and search The Bright Side.
0
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Hey, everyone, this is Molly and Matt, and we're the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart Podcasts.
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It's a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting.
0
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 like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone, and so much more.
0
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Let's learn about all of it and then some.
0
SPEAKER_07
Listen to Grown Up Stuff How to Adult on America's number one podcast network, iHeart.
0
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Open your free iHeart app and search Grown Up Stuff.
0
SPEAKER_05
 A new season of Bridgerton is here.
0
SPEAKER_05
And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
0
SPEAKER_05
I'm your host, Gabby Collins.
0
SPEAKER_05
And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
0
SPEAKER_05
Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
0
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Then fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
0
SPEAKER_05
Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday.
0
SPEAKER_03
 And I use interviewing and interrogation interchangeably because in the world I came from, truly, it's the same thing.
0
SPEAKER_03
It's a conversation.
0
SPEAKER_03
Whether it's me wanting a confession or admission or information on the case, or even doing a business deal, you know, and I work in television and negotiating terms, I make sure to hear what that other person is saying before I say, hey, let me tell you what I want.
0
SPEAKER_03
Because also when I hear that, I'm thinking, okay, this is what's important to them.
0
SPEAKER_03
 I can bend on this because I'm not worried about this so much, but this is what's important to me.
0
SPEAKER_03
So I'll bend here, but I won't bend here.
0
SPEAKER_03
And so you can come in a more meaningful way and connect with people.
0
SPEAKER_04
 Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world, thanks to each and every single one of you who are obsessed with learning about your mindset, learning about human behavior and learning how to make powerful decisions.
0
SPEAKER_04
Now,
0
SPEAKER_04
 And one of the things that I love about recording the podcast is I get introduced to fascinating people, people that I may not have heard of before, people who've had experiences that I can't even imagine, people who've lived lives that are so extraordinary.
0
SPEAKER_04
And today's guest is exactly one of those people.
0
SPEAKER_04
 I can't tell you how much I've been looking forward to this interview.
0
SPEAKER_04
And today's guest is none other than Evie Pomporis.
0
SPEAKER_04
Now, she is a former Secret Service Special Agent.
0
SPEAKER_04
She was part of the protective details for President Barack Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama, as well as former Presidents George W. Bush, William J. Clinton, and George H. Bush.
0
SPEAKER_04
 She worked complex criminal investigations and undercover operations, executed search and arrest warrants, and investigated both violent and financial crimes.
0
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Evie currently can be seen as an assessor on the Bravo series, Spy Games.
0
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If you've not seen it, check it out.
0
SPEAKER_04
 Now, today I'm excited to talk to Evie about her amazing new book called Becoming Bulletproof.
0
SPEAKER_04
Protect yourself, read people, influence situations, and live fiercely.
0
SPEAKER_04
And inside, she shares the lessons from protecting presidents, as well as insights and skills from the oldest and most elite security force in the world to help you prepare for stressful situations,
0
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 instantly read people and really make a difference in your life.
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Evy holds a Master of Science from Columbia University in Journalism, a Master of Arts in Forensic Psychology from Augusta University, and a Bachelor of Arts in Political Science and International Affairs from Hofstra University.
0
SPEAKER_04
And as you can see, super academic, super practical, and someone who literally in two seconds has made me realize she's also just really nice and kind, Evy Pomporis.
0
SPEAKER_04
Evy, thank you for being here.
0
SPEAKER_02
 Hi, Jay, thanks so much for having me.
0
SPEAKER_04
You are such an accomplished, incredible individual.
0
SPEAKER_04
The life that you've lived just absolutely fascinates me.
0
SPEAKER_04
I don't even know where to begin, to be honest, and that's not usually me.
0
SPEAKER_04
I usually know exactly where to start.
0
SPEAKER_04
But also what I love about it, Evy, is, and we've never met before, and I really hope that one day we do get to meet, but even just interacting with you now, I'm like, how has this person lived in such a tough,
0
SPEAKER_04
 stressful job, yet your energy is so sweet and kind and soft and loving.
0
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Tell us about that, just to start it off with.
0
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How does that work?
0
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I think that people feel that there's only one version of themselves, like you're just one thing, and it's not true.
0
SPEAKER_03
There's different versions of us, and I learned this over time, because I would hear people say, I'm just going to be myself, and I always wonder, what is myself?
0
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 And I really didn't understand this.
0
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It was when I became a polygraph examiner, I became an interrogator for the US Secret Service.
0
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And then I would interview so many people, Jay, like hundreds of people would come through the door.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I learned that I couldn't be one thing with everybody, and that people respond to different things and need different things from you.
0
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And so some people needed a more sensitive version of me.
0
SPEAKER_03
Sometimes I needed to bring out a more authoritative version of me.
0
SPEAKER_03
 you assess people and you realize, all right, who's my audience and what's going to resonate best with this audience, but it's still authentic.
0
SPEAKER_03
It's still me.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I found that when I started to do this, I began doing this at work, but then I began doing it in my relationships.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I realized that it actually strengthened my relationships and strengthened my communication skills with people because I was really
0
SPEAKER_03
 paying attention to people and becoming in tune to them.
0
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So if I had somebody who was soft-spoken and shy, I would say, OK, this is not a person that Secret Service Evie would really need to be with or to be that type of person.
0
SPEAKER_03
But at the same time, you can still be strong, and you can still be assertive, and you don't have to be a jerk about it.
0
SPEAKER_03
You can still have grace and kindness and connect with people.
0
SPEAKER_03
 And there's actually part of my studies when I studied interviewing and interrogation, and it's really about connecting with people.
0
SPEAKER_03
People hear interrogator and you think of the TV stuff and it's not like that at all.
0
SPEAKER_03
But one of the things that was taught is that the most successful interviewers, like those people that would get confessions or admissions or information from people, they were the ones that were perceived to be competent and then warm.
0
SPEAKER_03
 being fear-based, making people fearful of you, intimidating people, being cold, thinking that that is going to get people to listen to you more, it actually backfires on you.
0
SPEAKER_04
 You, you're already blowing my mind.
0
SPEAKER_04
What a great answer, right?
0
SPEAKER_04
I couldn't agree with you more.
0
SPEAKER_04
And I love what you said about how it can still be authentic, even if you're adapting, because I think people feel like if you're using techniques, then how can you be a, you know, how can you care?
0
SPEAKER_04
But if you're doing it from a place of compassion and a place of connection and a place of wanting to understand, then that's what brings the authenticity.
0
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Am I right?
0
SPEAKER_04
Does that make sense?
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it does.
0
SPEAKER_03
Because, but that's, but that's what drives me.
0
SPEAKER_03
I think,
0
SPEAKER_03
 you know, I mean think of it this way, you ever go to a meeting or have a conversation with someone and it's just bumping heads confrontational, you're thinking why did that happen that way?
0
SPEAKER_03
It's because both people are trying to shove their ideas and their perceptions almost like down the other person's throat and it doesn't, it doesn't resonate.
0
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One of the things I found, like the best interviewers were the people that
0
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 that made people feel understood.
0
SPEAKER_03
Like usually we just want to feel understood and some people want to feel understood and they're very aggressive about it.
0
SPEAKER_03
Like you'll have someone maybe just yell and scream and, you know, give you their opinion on something.
0
SPEAKER_03
But what they're really telling you is like, I'm not being heard.
0
SPEAKER_03
And so I'm screaming and I'm yelling because I want to feel heard.
0
SPEAKER_03
 And once people feel hurt, and if you cannot take it personally and think, you know, how dare you talk to me this way, but you can put your ego aside and ego is a big sabotage.
0
SPEAKER_03
But if you can put that aside and just understand this doesn't have to do with me, this has to do with this person.
0
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They're not feeling hurt by me or by anybody.
0
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So let me kind of sit back, be quiet and listen and let that resonate with them.
0
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And then after that's done,
0
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 you know, come back in a more meaningful way.
0
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I can't tell you how many times I sit in the interview room and people would just be angry.
0
SPEAKER_03
They're angry that they're there.
0
SPEAKER_03
They're angry that they're talking to a special agent.
0
SPEAKER_03
They're angry that they're talking to me.
0
SPEAKER_03
They're just angry.
0
SPEAKER_03
And rather than bump heads and try to put them in their place, because truly that would be my ego doing it, I'd say like, all right, let me just sit back.
0
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Let me let them vent, honestly.
0
SPEAKER_03
And then once that was done and the steam came out and, you know, they're exhausted too,
0
SPEAKER_03
 then I could really come in in a meaningful way.
0
SPEAKER_03
And now they've also told me what's resonating with them, what they're upset about.
0
SPEAKER_03
And when I speak to them, I can make sure that I am thoughtful in my conversation, rather than coming in blind and just pulling things out of nowhere and then saying the wrong thing.
0
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So look, could you use this to manipulate power people?
0
SPEAKER_03
Like, you know, yes, you could.
0
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But
0
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 it's going to backfire on you because people can read through that nonsense eventually.
0
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But if you use it in a way to connect with people, and you can use compassion or empathy, I use empathy so much.
0
SPEAKER_03
It draws information out of people because when you empathize with people, you build rapport, and they trust you.
0
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And the more people trust you, the more they open up.
0
SPEAKER_03
And that is truly
0
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 That's interrogation that the best interrogator, so to speak.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I use interviewing and interrogation interchangeably because in the world I came from, truly, it's the same thing.
0
SPEAKER_03
It's a conversation with people.
0
SPEAKER_03
But when you can do that, everybody opens up to you and you get what you want, whether it's me wanting a confession or admission or information on the case, or even doing a business deal.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I work in television and negotiating terms.
0
SPEAKER_03
I make sure to hear what that other person is saying
0
SPEAKER_03
 before I say, hey, let me tell you what I want.
0
SPEAKER_03
Because also when I hear that, I'm thinking, OK, this is what's important to them.
0
SPEAKER_03
I can bend on this because I'm not worried about this so much, but this is what's important to me.
0
SPEAKER_03
So I'll bend here, but I won't bend here.
0
SPEAKER_03
And so you can come in a more meaningful way and connect with people.
0
SPEAKER_04
 Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_04
Do you ever find that people in your personal life, because they know your skills and know what you are, they're always feeling a bit like, oh no, Evie can tell what I'm really thinking.
0
SPEAKER_04
Do you find that people sometimes put their guard up when they're around you because they feel like, oh, Evie can see right through me?
0
SPEAKER_03
You know, it's interesting.
0
SPEAKER_03
Some people will say that.
0
SPEAKER_03
Actually, let me just say this.
0
SPEAKER_03
My family, no.
0
SPEAKER_02
They just do whatever they want to me.
0
SPEAKER_02
 I'll just put that out there.
0
SPEAKER_02
I don't know why it is, but we can have, like, degrees and expertise.
0
SPEAKER_02
But when it comes to family, none of that matters.
0
SPEAKER_04
It's true.
0
SPEAKER_04
It's true.
0
SPEAKER_04
Very good point.
0
SPEAKER_04
You don't want to hear it.
0
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_03
But I think it's about connecting with people.
0
SPEAKER_03
But it's genuine, you know?
0
SPEAKER_03
I genuinely listen to people because I want to know what they think.
0
SPEAKER_03
I care about what they think.
0
SPEAKER_03
And so when it comes from an authentic place, I don't think people see that.
0
SPEAKER_03
 But when it looks like manufactured, when it looks like, and it feels like someone's selling you something, you've probably had that.
0
SPEAKER_03
We've all had that, where you feel like somebody, all right, this person's trying to sell me really hard.
0
SPEAKER_03
And if something's truthful and genuine, you don't have to sell so hard.
0
SPEAKER_03
You know, the truth is, we used to have this saying in the Secret Service, the truth is simple.
0
SPEAKER_03
It's simple.
0
SPEAKER_03
You don't have to work so hard.
0
SPEAKER_03
So when somebody's really working hard to sell you something, that's when your red flags are up.
0
SPEAKER_03
 That's when you're kind of like, why is this person working so hard?
0
SPEAKER_03
Something's not right.
0
SPEAKER_11
 When you find that bright spot to help you get through your day, it's powerful.
0
SPEAKER_10
That's where The Bright Side comes in.
0
SPEAKER_10
A new daily podcast from Hello Sunshine that's bringing you a daily dose of joy.
0
SPEAKER_10
I'm Danielle Robay.
0
SPEAKER_10
And I'm Simone Boyce.
0
SPEAKER_11
Listen, both Danielle and I are reporters.
0
SPEAKER_11
We've covered the news and we know the world can feel heavy, but The Bright Side podcast is a space to have a little fun, to learn something new and get into some friendly debates.
0
SPEAKER_10
 That's right.
0
SPEAKER_10
Join us five days a week to see how life can look from the bright side.
0
SPEAKER_11
We'll hear from celebrities, authors, experts and listeners like you, whether it's relationships, friend advice or figuring out how to navigate life's transitions.
0
SPEAKER_11
We'll talk through it all together.
0
SPEAKER_10
Listen to the bright side from Hello Sunshine every weekday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
0
SPEAKER_09
 Guess what, Mango?
0
SPEAKER_09
What's that, Will?
0
SPEAKER_09
So iHeart is giving us a whole minute to promote our podcast, Part-Time Genius.
0
SPEAKER_08
I know, that's why I spent my whole week composing a haiku for the occasion.
0
SPEAKER_08
It's about my emotional journey in podcasting over the last seven years, and it's called Earthquake House.
0
SPEAKER_09
Mango, I'm gonna cut you off right there.
0
SPEAKER_08
Why don't we just tell people about our show instead?
0
SPEAKER_08
Yeah, that's a better idea.
0
SPEAKER_08
So every week on Part-Time Genius, we feed our curiosity by answering the world's most important questions.
0
SPEAKER_08
Things like, when did America start dialing 911?
0
SPEAKER_08
 is William Shatner's best acting work in Esperanto.
0
SPEAKER_08
Also, what happened to Esperanto?
0
SPEAKER_09
Plus, we cover questions like how Chinese is your Chinese food?
0
SPEAKER_09
How do dollar stores stay in business?
0
SPEAKER_09
And of course, is there an Illuminati of cheese?
0
SPEAKER_08
There absolutely is.
0
SPEAKER_08
And we are risking our lives by talking about it.
0
SPEAKER_08
But if you love mind blowing facts, incredible history and really bad jokes, make your brains happy and tune in to Part Time Genius.
0
SPEAKER_09
Listen to Part Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
0
SPEAKER_06
 Hey everyone, this is Molly and Matt and we're the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart Podcasts.
0
SPEAKER_07
It's a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting.
0
SPEAKER_06
Like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone and so much more.
0
SPEAKER_07
 We're back with season two of the podcast, which means more opportunities to glow up and become a more responsible and better adult, one life lesson at a time.
0
SPEAKER_06
And let me just tell you, this show is just as much for us as it is for you.
0
SPEAKER_06
So let's figure this stuff out together.
0
SPEAKER_06
This season, we're going to talk about whether or not we're financially and emotionally ready for dog ownership.
0
SPEAKER_07
 We're going to figure out the benefits of a high-yield savings account.
0
SPEAKER_06
And what exactly are the duties of being a member of the wedding party?
0
SPEAKER_07
All that plus so much more.
0
SPEAKER_06
Let's learn about all of it and then some.
0
SPEAKER_06
Listen to Grown Up Stuff How to Adult on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
0
SPEAKER_04
 Tell me how you even get to the point.
0
SPEAKER_04
Before we dive into the book, and I'm really excited for everyone who's just tuning in and watching or listening right now, we are talking about Evie's new book called Becoming Bulletproof, which is all about protecting yourself, reading people, influencing situations, and living fearlessly.
0
SPEAKER_04
We're going to put the link in the comment section so you'll be able to buy the book if you're loving this conversation.
0
SPEAKER_04
 Evi, before we even dive into the book, I just want to talk a bit about how you even get there.
0
SPEAKER_04
Like, how do you even become the role that you became?
0
SPEAKER_04
Like, what does that process take?
0
SPEAKER_04
What did you want to do growing up?
0
SPEAKER_04
And how did you find yourself, you know, becoming such a successful secret agent?
0
SPEAKER_04
Tell us about that journey and that process.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I will tell you one thing.
0
SPEAKER_03
Work, work, and more work.
0
SPEAKER_03
Truly.
0
SPEAKER_03
Like, I...
0
SPEAKER_03
 My parents are immigrants.
0
SPEAKER_03
They came from Greece.
0
SPEAKER_03
And, you know, they were very poor.
0
SPEAKER_03
They grew up in poverty in Greece.
0
SPEAKER_03
My parents were very, very poor.
0
SPEAKER_03
And they came to the United States.
0
SPEAKER_03
And we lived in New York City.
0
SPEAKER_03
I was born in Harlem, Washington Heights area, which was a very high crime, very poor area.
0
SPEAKER_03
And Greek was actually my first language.
0
SPEAKER_03
I learned English in school.
0
SPEAKER_03
 I think we grew up around crime, a lot of crime, a lot of drugs.
0
SPEAKER_03
I saw the difficulties my family faced as immigrants.
0
SPEAKER_03
You know, they had very heavy accents.
0
SPEAKER_03
You know, even my dad, you know, I would see the hardships he would go through.
0
SPEAKER_03
In fact, when he came to America, he couldn't find a job.
0
SPEAKER_03
Nobody wanted to hire him.
0
SPEAKER_03
He had like a really thick accent.
0
SPEAKER_03
You know, I'm quite fair, but he was quite tanned, very dark, very ethnic looking.
0
SPEAKER_03
 They went through such hardship.
0
SPEAKER_03
In his first job, actually, in America, he finally had gone through so many places.
0
SPEAKER_03
I remember nobody would give him a job.
0
SPEAKER_03
And the last place he went to was a donut shop, a coffee shop in Harlem.
0
SPEAKER_03
And he went in there.
0
SPEAKER_03
He's like, just, I'll work for free.
0
SPEAKER_03
 Because the guy didn't want to give him work.
0
SPEAKER_03
And he's like, I'll work for free.
0
SPEAKER_03
I'll work for food.
0
SPEAKER_03
He's like, let me just get experience here so at least I can go somewhere else and say, hey, I have experience working in a donut shop selling coffees.
0
SPEAKER_03
He's like, I'll take your trash.
0
SPEAKER_03
I'll do whatever.
0
SPEAKER_03
And my father's first job in America was working for free.
0
SPEAKER_03
He worked for free.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I think it was after a few weeks that the man actually hired him.
0
SPEAKER_03
And so I think growing up with that and seeing the hardship they went through, I was like,
0
SPEAKER_03
 I, I'm not going to go through that.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I want to make a better life for them.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I was like, you know, and I watch, you know, it sounds silly, but we watch a lot of TV because we couldn't, we couldn't really play outside that much.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I would see on TV, these people doing extraordinary things in extraordinary roles.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I, I went to Greek school.
0
SPEAKER_03
I went to a Greek American school and I learned about Greek mythology and heroes.
0
SPEAKER_03
 And I was so inspired by it.
0
SPEAKER_03
You know, like when you're a kid, you're like, when I grow up, I want to be this.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I was inspired by courage and by bravery.
0
SPEAKER_03
And having grown up, you know, we've been victims of crime and dealt with so many hardships.
0
SPEAKER_03
I was like, I am not going to grow up afraid.
0
SPEAKER_03
I'm not going to grow up weak.
0
SPEAKER_03
I'm going to protect my family.
0
SPEAKER_03
You know, I'm going to do well so I can help take care of them.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I think just intuitively,
0
SPEAKER_03
 It led me into this career, because I knew nothing about law enforcement.
0
SPEAKER_03
Jay, I didn't even like police.
0
SPEAKER_03
They would pull me over when I was a teenager, and I was like the biggest brat.
0
SPEAKER_03
I knew nothing about that world, but I knew I wanted to serve people and help people.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I created this drive where I was just like, work, work hard, work hard, work hard.
0
SPEAKER_03
And even in college, I got an internship working for a congresswoman.
0
SPEAKER_03
I'll never forget, Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy.
0
SPEAKER_03
 And I worked for her for two years for free, for free.
0
SPEAKER_03
And everybody's like, you're crazy.
0
SPEAKER_03
You're wasting your time.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I was like, no.
0
SPEAKER_03
I'm learning.
0
SPEAKER_03
I'm connecting with people that I would never, Jay, I would never connect to these people.
0
SPEAKER_03
I had no network.
0
SPEAKER_03
I had no access.
0
SPEAKER_03
All I knew was my parents' immigrant community, no college education.
0
SPEAKER_03
I don't even think my mom finished high school, actually, now that I'm talking, or my dad.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I was just like,
0
SPEAKER_03
 I have a choice and I have to drive myself.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I think just one thing led to another.
0
SPEAKER_03
I didn't grow up with this idea.
0
SPEAKER_03
When I grew up, I'm going to be a Secret Service agent.
0
SPEAKER_03
I had no idea what that was.
0
SPEAKER_03
Zero.
0
SPEAKER_03
But I also was of the mindset, like, why not?
0
SPEAKER_03
Why can't I?
0
SPEAKER_03
Why can't I help my family and other people in a meaningful way?
0
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And I think when you're in the struggle and you see other people struggle, and I think just authentically, I wanted to
0
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 to help myself, help my family.
0
SPEAKER_03
And first, I went into the New York City Police Department.
0
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I applied.
0
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And I was just like, why not?
0
SPEAKER_03
And I got into the police department.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I had simultaneously applied to the US Secret Service.
0
SPEAKER_03
I bought a book on international careers.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I spoke languages at the time.
0
SPEAKER_03
I loved languages.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I spoke multiple languages.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I'd studied in different countries while I was in college on my own.
0
SPEAKER_03
 I worked like multiple part-time jobs.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I'm like, all right, this semester I'm going to work.
0
SPEAKER_03
And then next semester, I'm going to go to Mexico and do a semester there.
0
SPEAKER_03
And then I'd come back and I'd work.
0
SPEAKER_03
And then the next semester, I'm like, all right, I'm going to go to Italy now and go to school there.
0
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And I just had this hunger to open up my mind.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I think all those things kind of led me down a path where I was like, what more could I do?
0
SPEAKER_03
And honestly, the US Secret Service
0
SPEAKER_03
 I studied government, I studied international affairs.
0
SPEAKER_03
I bought a book that said careers in international affairs.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I was just, and it had about, I had about 300 organizations in there.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I was like, somebody is going to give me a job in here.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I sent a resume out, Jay, and this is back in the day when there was like no internet, none of that stuff was around.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I sent out 300 resumes the summer I graduated.
0
SPEAKER_03
I'm like, somebody is going to say yes.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I think,
0
SPEAKER_03
 I got maybe 25 rejection letters, and then eight or seven people replied back, hey, fill out this form.
0
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And one of them happened to be the Secret Service, just happened to be them.
0
SPEAKER_03
So I was just like, well, why not?
0
SPEAKER_03
And I think, although I didn't plan that path, sometimes I think that life takes you down the path you're meant to go, and although you don't realize it.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I think when people ask me, what's your five-year plan, or what are your hopes and dreams?
0
SPEAKER_03
 I'm like, look, I feel it.
0
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I see it.
0
SPEAKER_03
I think this is it.
0
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But nothing has ever turned out the way I thought it would or expected it to work out.
0
SPEAKER_03
And it's almost always for the better.
0
SPEAKER_03
I'm not saying it's not hard, because it's a hardship.
0
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And even when I was applying for these jobs, even when I went to the NYPD,
0
SPEAKER_03
 My family was very upset with me.
0
SPEAKER_03
They were like, why are you doing this?
0
SPEAKER_03
And even my dad, I had to get his paperwork, you know, I needed his naturalization paperwork and all that stuff.
0
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And although he was a strong, resilient man, like he couldn't understand, he's like, why are you doing this?
0
SPEAKER_03
Why would you think that they'd hire you?
0
SPEAKER_03
And it was hard, you know, it's hard to hear that when you're like 18, 19, and you're thinking,
0
SPEAKER_03
 I can't listen to this.
0
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I have to just try.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I was always like, let somebody else tell me no.
0
SPEAKER_03
Let somebody else reject me.
0
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I'm okay with that.
0
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But I was like, I'm not, I can't listen to other people because at the end of the day, like I have to live with myself.
0
SPEAKER_03
And I learned over time because there were moments where I would listen to other people and I look back and I'm like, man, I shouldn't have listened to this person.
0
SPEAKER_03
I should have really done what I wanted to do.
0
SPEAKER_03
And so what if I failed?
0
SPEAKER_03
 And that really kind of became part of my DNA after that, why I could, and it took a time to get to that, to that point where I could tune people out.
0
SPEAKER_03
I mean, I listened to people, you need good counsel, but if I felt something, Jay, like I would, I would tune people out and I'd be like, no, just go forward, do it.
0
SPEAKER_03
You know?
0
SPEAKER_03
And, and I think that just kind of became part of who I am and my, my internal mantra, maybe so to speak.
0
SPEAKER_04
 Yeah, for sure.
0
SPEAKER_04
Thank you for sharing that, by the way.
0
SPEAKER_04
It's always fascinating to hear about someone's background.
0
SPEAKER_04
And I love what you said about almost stumbling into this world.
0
SPEAKER_04
And I often say that, you know, we get to where we want in life, just not in the way you imagined it.
0
SPEAKER_04
And I love the analogy you gave, because
0
SPEAKER_04
 I can connect with what you said so strongly when I hear you say things like, you know, you just sent out all these resumes and you just waited to see who responded.
0
SPEAKER_04
And for anyone who's listening or watching right now, Eddie's talking about a really important principle is that so often we sit there and we try and figure out like, oh, which path should I take?
0
SPEAKER_04
And we try and construct it.
0
SPEAKER_04
We try and build it perfectly.
0
SPEAKER_04
And we try and technically figure it out.
0
SPEAKER_04
And it's almost like the real answer is open all the doors and see which ones stay open.
0
SPEAKER_04
 some of them are going to close and some of them are going to stay open and keep walking through the ones that stay open.
0
SPEAKER_04
And so we can see that in Evie's life and it led to this incredible journey.
0
SPEAKER_04
So Evie, what I want to dive into now is I want to talk about some of the, almost the mistakes that we make in reading people.
0
SPEAKER_04
 And I think, you know, the biggest challenge that people have is like, how do I know someone's telling the truth?
0
SPEAKER_04
How do I know if I can trust someone?
0
SPEAKER_04
How do I know to believe someone?
0
SPEAKER_04
This applies to whether you're a CEO hiring for your company, whether you're an entrepreneur hiring for your startup, it relates to whether you just want to date someone or you're talking on Tinder or Hinge or whatever it is.
0
SPEAKER_04
Like there are so many places where I feel
0
SPEAKER_04
 we ask ourselves the questions, can I trust this person?
0
SPEAKER_04
Is this person telling me the truth?
0
SPEAKER_04
Tell us the mistakes we make when trying to assess whether we can read someone right and how to do it properly.
0
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I think it's so important because like who you have in your circle of people, whether business, whether personal relationships is so important and you have to make sure that people
0
SPEAKER_03
 are meant to be there and sometimes people come in and they may have good intentions for us initially but then sometimes it's like you know this relationship needs to finish and evolve and you I always talk about constantly assessing everything and everyone around me to make sure like is this working now because it may be working before but maybe it's not working later and you know how do you get people to trust you but the biggest thing is to really read people and it's not like a gimmicky thing
0
SPEAKER_03
 like you really have to pay attention to people.
0
SPEAKER_03
I think one of the greatest mistakes I see that people do is that
0
SPEAKER_03
 they will not look at the actions of a person.
0
SPEAKER_03
So you may have someone who's like, let's say they're in a relationship, Jay, and their partner comes home late all the time, or their partner makes excuses all the time, or their partner does these things.
0
SPEAKER_03
And so if you're on the outside of the relationship and you see all these red flags, you're like, you look at him like that person's cheating.
0
SPEAKER_03
No question.
0
SPEAKER_03
 But then the person that's in the relationship, because they can't separate the actions from the person.
0
SPEAKER_03
They're like, well, he's working late or she's working late because of this.
0
SPEAKER_03
Oh, well, they were talking to that person because of that.
0
SPEAKER_03
Oh, well, they couldn't unlock their phone for me because they forgot the security code.
0
SPEAKER_03
Because you start to mix the individual with the actions.
0
SPEAKER_03
And that's where we make a mistake.
0
SPEAKER_03
We don't judge the actions.
0
SPEAKER_03
We look at the person.
0
SPEAKER_03
 And that's what happens when we end up getting betrayed.
0
SPEAKER_03
It's not until after the fact where you're like, man, like, how did I miss that?
0
SPEAKER_03
You know how after something happens, all the nickels start dropping.
0
SPEAKER_03
And you're like, but they did this.
0
SPEAKER_03
I knew it.
0
SPEAKER_03
I dismissed it.
0
SPEAKER_03
I should have paid attention.
0
SPEAKER_03
And that's because you're really focused on the person and you help make excuses for the person because it's in your benefit.
0
SPEAKER_03
Because if you've invested time in someone, as we're talking, let's say a personal relationship,
0
SPEAKER_03
 You don't want them to be unfaithful.
0
SPEAKER_03
It doesn't suit you for them to be unfaithful because it means you've lost all this time all this investment in this energy so it's easier for you to fall into that narrative and Listen and believe their excuses because it's it's the narrative you want to believe Yeah, and so you really have to be careful when somebody shows you things through action
2
SPEAKER_03
 of us can look to people, and yeah, people with negative behavior teach us what we don't want to be like, and people with positive behavior teach us what we do want to be like.
2
SPEAKER_03
And I think that that's something that we can all do so practically, because when people say like, well, what's the good in being in a bad situation?
2
SPEAKER_03
That's what it is.
2
SPEAKER_03
You learn what you don't want to repeat.
2
SPEAKER_03
You learn what you don't want to recreate.
2
SPEAKER_03
And I think that's really, really beautifully explained.
2
SPEAKER_03
 But yeah, okay.
2
SPEAKER_03
So Ebi, what I want to end with you is your final five.
2
SPEAKER_03
These are your rapid fire questions.
2
SPEAKER_03
So you've given us some incredible answers with so much depth and insight.
2
SPEAKER_03
Now we've got to turn it the other way.
2
SPEAKER_03
So you'll be a pro at this because I'm guessing you've done so much more of this than I have, but you've got to answer the next five questions with either one word or one sentence maximum.
2
SPEAKER_02
 Oh, the pressure, Jay, the pressure.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I mean, this is easy for you.
2
SPEAKER_03
You're like, oh, come on.
2
SPEAKER_03
I got thrown around a room.
2
SPEAKER_03
But let's do it.
2
SPEAKER_03
Let's do it.
2
SPEAKER_03
OK.
2
SPEAKER_03
So the first question is, what question do you usually open interrogations with?
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, tell me about your day.
2
SPEAKER_03
 Oh, interesting.
2
SPEAKER_03
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_03
Question number two.
2
SPEAKER_03
Uh, what is the most powerful thing you learned from Barack Obama or observing Barack Obama?
2
SPEAKER_03
It doesn't have to be directly.
2
SPEAKER_02
His voice, the power of voice.
2
SPEAKER_03
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_02
His, his voice, like he commanded his voice.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I never, I never thought about that till I watched him and how would a powerful tool that is paralinguistics, not what you say, but how you say it.
2
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_03
 Great lesson.
2
SPEAKER_03
Love it.
2
SPEAKER_03
Uh, what's one thing you learned from Michelle Obama?
2
SPEAKER_02
Self-worth.
2
SPEAKER_02
She taught me like that.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think because I grew up a certain way and I, we didn't grow up in poverty, but we didn't grow up great either.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I always thought that taking care of yourself and doing certain things meant was a luxury and you shouldn't do that.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
 And I had a wrong perception of it.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I learned from her that that just means you love yourself and you respect yourself.
2
SPEAKER_02
So I learned self-worth, taking care of yourself.
2
SPEAKER_03
That's beautiful.
2
SPEAKER_03
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_03
Question number four out of your five, if you could create one law that everyone else in the world had to follow, what would it be?
2
SPEAKER_02
 stop trying to shove your opinion down somebody else's throat.
2
SPEAKER_02
Just listen.
2
SPEAKER_02
You don't have to like it, but just allow people to express themselves.
2
SPEAKER_02
Even if you don't like it.
2
SPEAKER_03
Great answer.
2
SPEAKER_03
And question number five, what's the biggest lesson you've learned in the last 12 months?
2
SPEAKER_02
Um, God, man, there's so many.
2
SPEAKER_02
I've learned that
2
SPEAKER_02
 During a time of crisis, you can either be a giver or you can be a taker and you choose who you want to be.
2
SPEAKER_02
So when this whole thing is over, when I look back and when you look back or whenever a person looks back, what were you?
2
SPEAKER_02
Were you someone who gave to help during the pandemic or these issues or did you say you were someone who took?
2
SPEAKER_02
And so I learned that there's a role to play and you have a choice.
2
SPEAKER_03
 Beautiful.
2
SPEAKER_03
What a great answer.
2
SPEAKER_03
Everyone, that is Evy Pompouras.
2
SPEAKER_03
We've been talking about becoming bulletproof.
2
SPEAKER_03
I will put the link to the book in the comments.
2
SPEAKER_03
If you want to build up a mental shield, if you want to read people, understand body language, influence scenarios, and most importantly, live fearlessly, this is the book that you want to go and grab.
2
SPEAKER_03
Full of incredible stories, insights.
2
SPEAKER_03
We haven't even dived into
2
SPEAKER_03
 We literally scratched the surface today.
2
SPEAKER_03
There is so much more that Evie has to share about human behavior, the mind, and those fascinating stories that underpin her life.
2
SPEAKER_03
Evie, thank you so much for joining us today on On Purpose.
2
SPEAKER_03
It's been so wonderful speaking with you.
2
SPEAKER_03
I hope we get to meet at some stage.
2
SPEAKER_03
And I just want to thank you for all the incredible work you did.
2
SPEAKER_03
So thank you so much.
2
SPEAKER_02
Thank you so much, Jay.
2
SPEAKER_02
It was awesome.
2
SPEAKER_02
I hope we get to meet too.
2
SPEAKER_02
Be well, be safe.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Guess what, Will?
2
SPEAKER_00
What's up, Mango?
2
SPEAKER_00
I've been trying to write a promo for our podcast, Part-Time Genius, but even though we've done over 250 episodes, we don't really talk about murders or cults.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese, so I feel like that makes us pretty edgy.
2
SPEAKER_00
We also solve mysteries like how Chinese is your Chinese food and how do dollar stores make money?
2
SPEAKER_00
And then, of course, can you game a dog show?
2
SPEAKER_00
 So what you're saying is everyone should be listening.
2
SPEAKER_00
Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_01
This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol.
2
SPEAKER_01
The joy they brought to the nation.
2
SPEAKER_02
You are free completely.
2
SPEAKER_02
No one is there to destroy you.
2
SPEAKER_01
The danger they endured.
2
SPEAKER_00
They said my head should be cut off.
2
SPEAKER_01
 I'm John Legend.
2
SPEAKER_01
Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_04
 Discover a new educational and interactive podcast, Stories for Kids by Lingokids.
2
SPEAKER_04
Our episodes are packed with fun activities.
2
SPEAKER_04
Right, Elliot?
2
SPEAKER_04
Oh, yes.
2
SPEAKER_04
We went shape hunting around the block, and we found spheres and cubes on the street.
2
SPEAKER_04
That was great fun.
2
SPEAKER_04
Join Stories for Kids, the Lingokids podcast, inspiring you to learn while having fun.
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Listen to Stories for Kids on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.