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Hey guys, it s Spadoodle.
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You can always go to davidspade.com to look at my tour dates, because I bless a lot of cities in America with my hilarious stand-up act.
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Or you could not go to it and get on my enemy list.
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Up to you!
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This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.
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But you know, look at how fast, we re almost halfway through the year.
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Crazy, yeah.
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Are you proud of what you ve done in 2024 so far?
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I mean, you always wanna do more, right?
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Life goes so fast.
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David, it s important to take a moment to celebrate your wins, make adjustments for the rest of the year.
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Therapy can help you take stock of your progress and set achievable goals for the next six months.
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David.
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Listen, therapy is the way to go.
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I did it for a while.
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And I think the thing that slowed me down was what they, is driving to Santa Monica in traffic once or twice a week.
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Yes.
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This is online.
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No, it s so convenient.
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It s a great idea.
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Very convenient.
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It helps you.
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You ve got coping skills, how to set boundaries.
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I mean, there s so many things you can do here to be a better version of yourself.
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You can probably always sharpen it.
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Yeah, I mean, I had a therapist in Portland and I would commute and that was a pain.
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That s a long drive.
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I know it was 1300 miles one way, but you know, it s good therapist.
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But yeah, this one you can mix and match and your thoughts kind of control you and you want to master them.
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And when you talk to someone else, they re able to kind of discern it out.
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So if you re thinking of starting to give therapy a try, give better help a try.
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Yeah, it s entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, suited to your schedule.
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You fill out a questionnaire, get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapist if you want to for any reason, no charge.
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Take a moment, visit betterhelp.com slash F-O-T-W today.
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Get 10% off your first month.
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That s betterhelp, H-E-L-P.com slash F-O-T-W.
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So guys, we got David Byrne
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A kind of a legendary dude in the music world, obviously with the talking heads and solo stuff.
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It s interesting when Dana and I get to talk to a guy like this because he does have that wispy SNL connection because it s
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He was on with the Talking Heads in 1979, and then he went on solo in 89 and 2020.
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You have to be doing well to have that big of a gap in between.
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That means you re still churning it out, and it s still working, and people are still buying it, and that s hard to do.
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Longevity.
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But you hear his name all the time, and you still hear it about Broadway,
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and the things he does.
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He s such a smart dude.
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This was an interesting one because Dana and I were in a little over our heads, which is fine.
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But I have on my iPod or whatever old thing I have, I have burning down the house.
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I have wild, wild life, which is a real toe tapper.
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And it s fun to talk to a guy like this.
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He s just,
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Very bright.
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The dude is a genius.
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He wears those, he wore that big coat in that, I think, same as it ever was video.
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And I wore a big coat in Father of the Year, which is a huge hit on Netflix.
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I m not even saying that sarcastically.
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It was a hit.
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Look, check it out.
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Why does no one believe me?
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It was.
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Anyway, so we have that in common.
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Someone told me the other day we have being a Leo in common.
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And then they pitched me a show at breakfast.
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And I m like, he goes, listen, I m a good guy.
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Listen, we re both Leo.
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So I m like, that s your wispy connection to me.
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First of all, I m not a Leo.
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So our wispy, wispy connection is over.
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You re back to a total stranger.
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All right, anyway, here s David Byrne.
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And we hope you like, you like the juice?
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When David Byrne comes on the Zoom.
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Dana, that s the guy.
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Here s this.
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I m on the Zoom.
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Wait a minute.
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I m, I m nearsighted.
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Hey David.
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Oh my God.
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I m on the Zoom.
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How are you doing?
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Oh, we re doing incredible now that, now that you re here.
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Nice to meet virtually.
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Yes, this is, is this your first Zoom today?
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No, it s my second one today.
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Really?
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Did you have one with Lorne Michaels earlier?
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You ll find David and Dana.
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Well, we ll try to make this interesting.
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Here s my first question, David.
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This is just to kind of be a little pithy.
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Has anyone ever used your last name against you in an argument?
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You burned me, Byrne.
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No, I don t think so.
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But yeah, there s been some, probably plenty of articles where they did make puns, make puns like that, you know, burning down the house, but we like with my name.
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Oh, right.
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Things like that.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I was called Dana Carkeys in grade school and it drove me nuts.
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Why car keys?
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Car V, car keys?
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It didn t even make sense, but it brutalized me.
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I m still wounded.
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It s basic bullying.
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David, my name is David Spade.
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Nice to meet you.
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First of all, I m a little nervous because David has such a vast career and it s almost too much and we
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It s almost like an intervention.
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It is almost too much.
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I got exhausted.
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He s doing too much.
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It s too much.
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Well, or not enough, but you ve done so much.
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It s really kind of amazing.
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I want to ask you things you haven t been asked for, but what I observed when I was watching you in some of these videos is the way you move.
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So I think of you as a dancer first, and then singer, songwriter, filmmaker, and pretty much everything artistic.
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So was that conscious?
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Because it s kind of Polynesian to me.
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It s sort of slow, but it s very graceful.
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Interesting.
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And it s graceful and it s inside the loop.
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You never are frenetic.
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It s very interesting to watch.
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Anyway, am I the first person to ask you that or maybe the 20th?
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I have been asked, you re like, where does your dancing come from?
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I, I, uh, I made a conscious.
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It looks like you re falling.
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Uh huh.
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I may, I may constantly tripping.
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That s what it is.
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Yeah.
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I, uh,
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Pretty early on, I thought to myself, I don t want to move like other kind of rock and roll.
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Mick Jagger or James Brown.
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Yeah.
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So I thought, oh, yeah.
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I mean, that s where the bar was set, kind of.
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Yeah.
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people and, and many others.
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And I just thought, well, there s no way I m going to do that.
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And besides, they ve kind of cornered that, but they do that.
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Yeah, they do it really well.
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So I have to find something that works for me.
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So I, for a long time, I didn t do anything.
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And then gradually, little by little, I started kind of
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figuring out moves and things that kind of felt like they were coming from me, and that they emerged from the music, and they didn t feel like they seemed like anything else that I d seen out there.
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They seemed a little bit odd sometimes.
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Well, it s charismatic because there s no overt effort
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And it just seems to work.
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I was watching the Jimmy Fallon thing from your show.
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That s what humans do.
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And your little choreography with everyone and how you d go up and do the chorus and you come back and you re barefoot.
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I don t know.
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It s very charismatic because it s ultimately asking us to go at you.
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You re not coming at us with a lot of energy.
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It s all just so relaxed.
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And you could do it till you re 90.
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All right, pretty much, I m hoping.
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And then, yeah, I tend to go for things that
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I don t look like I ve had a lot of dance training, which I haven t had.
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So they re the kind of thing that I m I hope that other people see it and go, oh, I could do that.
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I could be a dancer.
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If this guy can do it, I can do it.
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Yeah.
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OK.
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I m going to write that down.
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No.
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Moving to the music.
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It s very care.
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Yeah.
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So anyway, David, do you have a question?
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Not you, David Byrne, but you.
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I know that.
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Of course, I. Yes, I was a little nervous because he is a
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He s very smart and I m very smart and Dana might feel weird on this podcast.
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I feel like a third wheel.
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I ve got two giant brains in front of me.
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But I ve seen interviews with you and you seem like very light on your feet and that was my first kind of thing because I grew up
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My brother is smarter than me, and he s very artistic.
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He eventually got into design.
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He started that Kate Spade handbag company with his wife, and he was so, you were his favorite band, and so I d hear it, and I didn t quite grasp the coolness of it.
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I just always thought it was kind of surface-y, very, I like the songs, and then the older you get, and you start to get in the words and what you re doing, there s so much going on there that it makes it easy
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in more layers and layers and layers.
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And so that was fun.
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And then I, when I heard, when I saw that you were kind of fun and light in your feet, that was nice to see because sometimes you don t know what personality is behind all that when you re so smart like that.
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And it s, it s great that it made it less nervous to talk to you.
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Oh, good.
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Yeah.
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I m glad it comes across that way.
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Yeah.
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I wouldn t want it to be like, Oh, he thinks he s so smart.
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And, uh,
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Yeah, because I m really smart and I m a little prickly to deal with.
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You re incredibly smart.
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But anyway.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, okay.
1
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I keep throwing that in there, but no one even agrees.
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I think you come off anti-pretensive.
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There s no sense of like, well, look what I m doing, you know, at all.
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It just feels, and I think for an artist, first time I m going to use the word,
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playful, you know, and childlike in some ways and loose.
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So I don t know.
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It s very interesting to watch.
1
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Thank you.
1
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Yeah, yeah.
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I really enjoy it.
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And I hope that your audiences can sense that I m enjoying myself and having fun and sometimes having a laugh with it.
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Well, Dana, you know that he s got an Academy Award, a Grammy, a Tony, and a Golden Globe, so he s got an E-Gog.
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But a lot of people are going for the E-Got.
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No, no, so yeah.
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SPEAKER_02
Oh yeah, there s no E. Yeah, there s no E, so not quite.
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You ve got a Gog-Got.
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SPEAKER_00
No, you don t have the E. You really need a vowel.
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You need something to keep this going.
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SPEAKER_00
But Golden Globe is,
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SPEAKER_00
Good, so what Emmy, is Emmy on the future?
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Is this killing you that you don t have an Emmy?
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It s killing me that I don t have one.
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It s all I think about now.
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I m in TV and I don t have one, and you might graze by it and win one, and I m over here struggling every day in the salt mines.
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Well, no, honestly, no, I don t think about it.
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I don t think about it, but yeah.
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Yeah, I don t.
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You got enough stuff.
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I have a starting live question because this is sort of the idea how we tricked you into this, but, uh, we don t have to talk about only starting live.
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Um, when you go on, I always wonder what the music gets.
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And I never asked when I was there, do they tell you what songs to pick or do you say, I want to do these and what order?
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Cause you get two songs.
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Uh, I remember early on, early on, I, I seem to recall being very pushy about it.
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saying, yeah, oh, they were, I was very pushy.
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I feel very pushy and going, I want to do this.
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I want to do this.
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SPEAKER_02
And I, uh, I think at one point, I don t know if it was on Saturday night live or Letterman or some show where I said, I want you to shoot it in black and white.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it was really, I was really pushy, you know, say, oh, you know, I want something that looks a little bit different, et cetera, et cetera.
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SPEAKER_02
And, uh, it,
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They yeah.
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So it was what I go back and forth, the record company where they say we d like this one sort of out there to help this album or whatever back them.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I kind of learned, you know, you learn after a while you go, you got to give them the single or the song that s being promoted.
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SPEAKER_02
And then for the second one, you can put in, you know, you can be a little more artistic and show them kind of the breadth of kind of the range of what you re you re doing.
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Yeah, of course.
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That s what I kind of remember is that the first one I usually knew, I remember when Pearl Jam was on and that was sort of my era when I was there.
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But I was never one to get music right away, like I told you with my brother.
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So I liked Pearl Jam by the time they came back.
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I liked Nirvana by the time they came back.
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So I go, are you going to do Alive?
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They go, we did it last time.
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I go, you did?
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So by that time, I had loved it.
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So then I started to pay attention, but I m always about a year back like Europe.
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Well I was introduced by Lorne Michaels because I was staying at his house in 1986 before I was on SNL but I was cast on SNL and I stayed for a month
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And The Talking Heads played, I don t want to exaggerate, I d say 12 hours a day throughout the house.
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Wow.
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You may find yourself, you may find yourself, and I fell in love with it.
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SPEAKER_01
I was aware of you guys and I knew that it was new.
1
SPEAKER_01
It was a new... Your singing phrasing was popped out to me, like Sinatra or something.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
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When did you first get that?
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Was that always there when you started your first band?
1
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I don t know how you ve described your vocalization, but it s very you.
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There s no one else does it quite like that.
1
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It was a little more Yelpy at first.
1
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Oh, I didn t want to say that.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it was a little more Yelpy at first.
1
SPEAKER_02
And then gradually, kind of listening to other singers and records and things, I thought, oh, you know, I can.
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SPEAKER_02
I can actually sing a melody if I have to, and I can do that.
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SPEAKER_02
And that might be a way to get some things over.
1
SPEAKER_02
I thought the same thing, but it didn t work out.
1
SPEAKER_02
I might be able to do that.
1
SPEAKER_02
I remember the last time we were on Saturday Night Live, which is probably 2020 with John Mulaney, right?
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
Wow.
1
SPEAKER_02
Just before the pandemic, like weeks before.
1
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After we did the rehearsal,
1
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Uh, I got invited or should I say called into the meeting with Lauren that the entire cast goes into.
1
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And I thought, Oh, this didn t happen before.
1
SPEAKER_02
What, what s, what s going to happen.
1
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And, uh,
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He gave me some notes, he, you know, singled me out and gave me some notes.
1
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Do you remember them?
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SPEAKER_00
Wow.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think he said something about my, it was something, no, it was not about the moves.
1
SPEAKER_02
It was something about my vocal delivery.
1
SPEAKER_02
He felt it was a little too aggressive or something or other.
1
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There was some comment about adjusting my vocal delivery.
1
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
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And I wasn t sure exactly what he meant, but I thought, okay, okay, I ll just,
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SPEAKER_02
Keep that in mind, whatever he means, I ll keep it in mind.
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Yeah.
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God, I can safely say I ve never heard of that.
1
SPEAKER_00
I ve never heard of Lorne giving notes to music except, you know, Sinead O Connor telling her not to rip up the picture of the Pope, but it was a little late.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
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He goes, you know, that s the stuff for rehearsal.
1
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And then he handed her some scotch tape and said, it goes back together just as easily.
1
SPEAKER_01
It was ripped.
1
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Maybe no one will notice, but probably a lot of people would give notes in, you know, one word, you know, basically like we re about to start a sketch and you would just say, Oh, it has to breathe just like that.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know, probably with you would be like, if you could bring it down a notch and let it come to you or something like that.
1
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Usually there s some wisdom in it, but I, you know, I wouldn t give you notes.
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I wouldn t have the guts to say David, you know, when it comes to singing, I,
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But lorna i like that i like these a black and white is cuz you re like sort of a pre kanye where your you know these artistic minds come on there and it feels like it s a certain stamp i know the look of where the music is i know the coloring of the lighting.
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Every week i know it s gonna look like and it does take someone to walk in and say.
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What if we shoot it a little differently?
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Or what if we shot it over there?
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Or what if we shot it outside?
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Or what if we made it black and white?
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SPEAKER_00
I like that because no one does that.
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SPEAKER_00
They just come in, they do it and leave like you re supposed to.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I love that you re throwing things out though.
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It was, I didn t want it to have like the standard rock and roll lighting with the colored lights flashing and all that kind of stuff.
1
SPEAKER_02
I thought, how can I, how can I easily avoid that?
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And so that was probably the idea there.
1
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But by the time we went in, in like 2020 or whenever, uh, there was much more, there was much more, uh, kind of a collaboration with the director and the lighting people and all, everybody was super accommodating.
1
SPEAKER_02
Like, okay, we we ve seen what you re doing.
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So we ll, we ll try and do that.
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Right, when I was there, it was only, Dana, do you agree?
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It was only for blocking.
1
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Like they would come in on probably Thursday before we would rehearse.
1
SPEAKER_00
We didn t even get to rehearse until Thursday night, the sketches.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s how late in the game, if people don t know that.
1
SPEAKER_00
So music comes in and they get like an hour or two, but they do their songs.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s really, camera s going to get here.
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SPEAKER_00
They just want to see the song just for cameras, but it was always the same lighting, pretty much.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think later in the years, they started to play with it a little bit.
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SPEAKER_00
I don t think there was a lot of thought.
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SPEAKER_00
I do like when they play with it.
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And guys like you are great because that s what you want.
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You want different, you want a memorable.
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SPEAKER_01
Is it kind of interesting you, David, like David Byrne?
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SPEAKER_00
I never think you re talking to me, don t worry, go ahead.
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Just that when you have a long career and then it becomes long, and then you come back and you look great, you re at the top of your game, and do people, like in my little teeny world, I ll go to a little comedy club and I feel like I m a museum piece, like he s still here, I still recognize him, and he s doing the church lady.
1
SPEAKER_01
So there is this, people must respond to you in a different way, or just in a warm way, or there s something,
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It s like, Laura, there s something about seeing you again and and you look great, you move great.
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The songs are great.
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Your voice is still there.
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Perfect.
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SPEAKER_00
So voice is strong.
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You can comment on that or not.
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SPEAKER_01
I m talking too much.
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SPEAKER_01
Go ahead.
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Yeah, there s always there s always a portion of the audience that kind of the kind of the kind of the original fans that are kind of
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my age, or just a little bit younger, maybe, who have a kind of legacy sense of all that journey.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah, that s part of their journey, too.
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And that s kind of nice.
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They, I think they expect to see something different.
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from me, which is a nice kind of opportunity for me.
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SPEAKER_02
And of course, the younger audience that comes often has no idea what to expect.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
I think they expect that they just picture one of their songs and they re going to do it exactly.
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That s the way I picture concerts.
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And when you come out, at least you come with that baggage of which is baggage sounds negative, but they know that you are out of the box.
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And so anything s really possible when you re out there.
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SPEAKER_00
So not to expect really anything.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah.
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As long as you don t antagonize them or give them things, do things that are just like, oh, I m going to piss off the audience by indulging myself in a half hour of just talking to you or- Drum solo.
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Yeah, the drum solo, whatever.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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I have a question about, oh, go ahead, Dana.
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Well, you ve managed to just always surprise.
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One lane of show business is money and how to do that.
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And you keep reinventing yourself all around a certain general theme, but it is always new.
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SPEAKER_01
And so how did you, did you ever get a offer to sell out?
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Yeah.
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Like in the eighties, a commercial and just for millions of dollars or something like that.
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SPEAKER_01
Or how have you managed to stay an artist again, all the way through, stay totally cool and manage the business side of it all?
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SPEAKER_01
sell out, you mean like do a lemonade commercial or.
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SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah.
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Lemonade commercials and things like, yeah, they ve been they ve been few offers for I ve done commercials, I ll be honest, and things like that.
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SPEAKER_02
And I m of a generation where you kind of that musicians kind of avoided that if they could.
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Yes.
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I mean, I realize that now it s actually encouraged.
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It s like if that s what you do to get your music to a larger audience, then you should do it.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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Oh my God, it s like, first of all, just in full disclosure, I ve never said no to anything.
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Now, also a lot of these musicians that used to be, but Eddie Vedder, you know, you remember that, you know, I won t even do Ticketmaster, I won t do this.
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SPEAKER_00
All these things that made sense at the time, which was actually hard to run a concert, I m sure back then, when you re saying, I can t sell out if I do this corporate, this corporate, but corporations own the arena.
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It s just hard to avoid, I m sure.
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SPEAKER_00
So,
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And you can comment on that if you want, but it is.
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Yeah, I m wow.
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I was really impressed at Eddie Vedder and that they kind of decided we want to do this tour without Ticketmaster and whatever, because our fans are tired of paying all these extra costs that get added on and all the scalping stuff that goes on with the in these ticket
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SPEAKER_02
sales things are complicit in this with the scalpers and, you know, they were trying, they were trying to kind of do the right thing, but it is, yeah, it s a really hard thing for them to do.
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And I admired them for giving it a try.
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Yes, I did too.
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I thought, wow, I didn t.
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SPEAKER_00
And then you look and you go, oh, Ticketmaster is, is kind of racking everyone, you know, if you get break it down.
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SPEAKER_00
And then when you hear they re sort of in bed with
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the scalpers and stuff or whatever, I don t know for sure.
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But you know how it is and you go, so they buy some, they sell them right back and they give them the first third of the ticket.
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SPEAKER_00
It s just so weird because you go, yeah, every time I turn around, one minute later, they re marked up to 800 bucks.
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SPEAKER_00
You go, normal fans don t have a chance.
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SPEAKER_00
And the artist wants the normal fans to be able to pay
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SPEAKER_00
real ticket price, that s bad enough, really, and then just get in there and have a good time.
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SPEAKER_00
And they feel like they re part of it being the bad guy when they re not, but that s what it looks like.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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And now there s the whole thing of, I guess, what they call dynamic pricing, where- That doesn t sound good.
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SPEAKER_00
What s that?
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SPEAKER_00
I don t even know.
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SPEAKER_02
No, yeah, yeah.
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SPEAKER_02
They ve done it on Broadway for a long time, but now they re kind of moving it into concerts, where, you know, with a big artist, like there was a big brouhaha about Bruce Springsteen tickets.
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SPEAKER_02
Because if there s a high demand for kind of the prime seats for a show like that, they ll jack the prices up for those.
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SPEAKER_02
Now, they might still keep some cheap seats in the back.
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SPEAKER_02
But the ones up front will just go
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SPEAKER_02
they re kind of trying to beat the scalpers in a way.
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SPEAKER_02
But that means that- 1200.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah, the prices start going up into the scalper range where it s over $1,000.
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SPEAKER_02
Wow.
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SPEAKER_02
And yeah, the fans are just going, that s not what was originally listed.
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SPEAKER_00
That s not really the plan.
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SPEAKER_00
Like, I don t really get that because they re going to make the scalper money up front instead of the scalpers.
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SPEAKER_02
They re saying that, yes, at least if we do that, the money goes to the artists.
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SPEAKER_02
But it s still pretty tough.
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It s still pretty tough on the fans.
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SPEAKER_02
Do you, something that s a little, maybe a little more unusual in my world.
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Do you both go into clubs, like you said, go into comedy clubs and different places and could try out new material that way and kind of make a surprise appearance somewhere and go, okay, I got, I got to try some stuff out.
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And the only way I know what works is to do it live.
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SPEAKER_02
David does it a lot.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
A hundred percent.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
I have to, I have to,
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SPEAKER_00
Well, I m kind of on a tour right now, and when people are paying and it s a bigger theater, you have to try.
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SPEAKER_00
But I ve always done that because it s always the only way to even keep going.
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SPEAKER_00
So luckily in LA, there s the improv and the comedy store and the laugh factory.
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SPEAKER_00
So you can go in.
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SPEAKER_00
You can go in any time.
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SPEAKER_00
I mean, they re nice enough to say, just come in whenever you drive by.
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SPEAKER_00
you can go up and do whatever you want.
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SPEAKER_00
And so you try it and there s a lot of great comedians there.
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SPEAKER_00
The only thing these days is some comics are having them put the phones in those zip bags because you can t work on a new special if people are leaking it on YouTube the next morning or put it on their TikTok or whatever.
2
SPEAKER_00
and then all your jokes are out there.
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SPEAKER_00
So it s not like building up for a special.
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SPEAKER_00
Someone like Eddie Murphy, I would see having a real problem coming back to stand up because where do you practice where people aren t going to film you and leak everything?
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SPEAKER_00
And if it s not that funny, cause you re really working it.
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they re going to see that and say, oh, he s not that good anymore.
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SPEAKER_00
And you re like, well, this is how I used to do it in little clubs.
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SPEAKER_00
And then the world sees it.
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SPEAKER_00
But like a band, I don t know.
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SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
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SPEAKER_00
That s the only way to do it.
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SPEAKER_01
Well, for me, and I want to ask you a question.
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Music, David.
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SPEAKER_01
the i started in small clubs and i didn t know i was i wasn t really a stand-up i was a sketch player so the small clubs allowed me to go i m going to be a character for two minutes and then as i got on tv and stuff i played bigger rooms and i found it much more of a
2
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heavy lifting for me, unless there were screens.
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So I love the small clubs.
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And with comedy, it s always a surprise.
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So ideally, you vetted it in a small room.
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So when you go to the big room, you don t go, da-da-da-da-da-da, and it didn t get a laugh.
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SPEAKER_01
But did you, when you re in the 70s in those low ceiling clubs and your first band was just kicking in, there s a certain, some energy to that.
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SPEAKER_01
But you ve played all kinds.
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You have a show that you do occasionally.
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Only 16 audience members can come in at a time.
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We ll get to that in a second, your fascination with the brain and neuroplasticity and all that.
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But in terms of rooms, what s your favorite size room?
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Or it s the room you re in, I guess.
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Broadway is pretty intimate in its own way.
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Broadway is fairly intimate.
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I like that size room.
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You can still, it s big, but you can still get a sense of all the people.
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I still feel like, as you probably do, I still feel like I m speaking right to them and they re listening to me.
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And if there s a reaction, I can respond to their reaction.
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And sometimes I can, as you might do, if you get a laugh, you re trying to say something else that s going to put a laugh on top of the laugh.
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And yeah, that kind of thing.
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But you can t you can t like make that up at home.
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You can t like write that.
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You have to see how the audience reacts.
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That s the best place to be is in the moment, kind of like with us right now.
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And life is really about that listening and being in the moment, certainly performing, never trying to force it.
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Don t anticipate it.
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All I think before I go out on stage, the last word I say to myself
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is have fun, because if I forget to have fun, it can unravel pretty quickly.
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If people are drunk or it s a shitty audience or I blew a joke, but always have fun.
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That s that helps me a lot.
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SPEAKER_01
What do you say right before your show, David?
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David, what do I say?
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SPEAKER_01
Ladies and gentlemen, American Utopia, David Byrne.
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Do you have any ritual or prayer or just like take a deep breath and or you just walk out and.
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SPEAKER_02
Usually the band and I are kind of backstage.
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And we re all on like our mics and everything like that.
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So we can all talk to one another, but yeah, but nobody else can hear us.
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SPEAKER_02
And so there s a lot of joking around like, okay, who s out there tonight.
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SPEAKER_02
People take a peek and go, oh, there s, yeah, there s.
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there s a really strange looking person in the front row, or there s a kid in the front row who s sleeping.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, to lighten it up.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
Sure.
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Yeah, that s, you know, I do the same thing.
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I peek out in the front and try to go, is there anyone I want to mention or say anything?
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Because when you re live, you can sort of, I do one crowd work.
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I go out the audience and I go, I go, what are you guys having?
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SPEAKER_00
nachos and they go yep and I go oh it s an anniversary or something and then I just I go that s my crowd work folks I get one laugh and then I move on.
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SPEAKER_00
The worst crowd work ever.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah because I go I did it looks like they they really like it in stand-up and probably in music when you re doing something that
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they think is not the hand stamped show.
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So if you re in a crowd, even obviously in music, you just mentioned the city, they get excited.
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SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
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Even though you re reading it off the back of a mic stand.
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SPEAKER_00
But if you just say, you know, I saw the Eagles and they were like,
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on a dark Arizona highway, and everyone goes, whoa!
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SPEAKER_00
Anything local.
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SPEAKER_00
That s where we live.
3
SPEAKER_00
Anything local.
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SPEAKER_00
Cool Scottsdale wind in my hair, and everyone s like, my friend lives in Scottsdale, and they go, warm smell of ASU Stadium, and everyone s like, all right, just sing the fucking song, dude.
3
SPEAKER_01
I always tell them, what s the rival town?
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SPEAKER_01
So if you re playing Fresno, and I go, what?
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh yeah, that s a good one.
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SPEAKER_01
They go, we hate Modesto, then I go out, and I just say, Modesto sucks, and I ve got them.
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SPEAKER_01
It s the easiest thing in the world.
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SPEAKER_00
Or you go, nah, that joke was funny.
3
SPEAKER_00
This guy from Modesto doesn t get it.
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SPEAKER_00
And then it s a running gag.
3
SPEAKER_00
David, you can use any of these, any of them.
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SPEAKER_00
Okay, okay.
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SPEAKER_00
Just take them with you.
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SPEAKER_00
It s so funny.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, I have a question about your, one of my favorite songs, Wildlife.
3
SPEAKER_00
The video, isn t the video, does it have a ton of cameos in it?
3
SPEAKER_02
Uh, yeah, it s people.
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SPEAKER_02
It s meant to be like a karaoke night or something like that, where people are jumping up and singing a line.
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SPEAKER_02
It s kind of taken off on that.
3
SPEAKER_02
And people, the audience members are kind of dressing up like their favorite singers or whatever.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
That s a great one.
3
SPEAKER_00
And, uh, that one was Buscemi in it or am I crazy?
3
SPEAKER_00
No, it was not.
3
SPEAKER_02
Buscemi was a local guy in Dallas that looked like Buscemi.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, for real?
3
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was about to say, who is in that thing?
3
SPEAKER_00
Because that was such a fun video and such a great song.
3
SPEAKER_00
I still crank it on my iPod.
3
SPEAKER_00
Is iPod something?
3
SPEAKER_00
iPod s a good thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think that s what I have on my phone.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s on my phone, but whatever.
3
SPEAKER_00
Believe me.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I m one of these guys.
3
SPEAKER_00
that I get those Apple songs and they re 99 cents or whatever.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so instead of joining something, I just go, well, I already have this, I don t wanna learn anything new.
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SPEAKER_00
And I realized I have 20,000 songs, so I ve spent 20,000.
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SPEAKER_00
It s the dumbest thing I could ever do, but I just keep doing it one by one and they re just adding up.
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SPEAKER_00
I m like, I think this isn t smart, but love that.
3
SPEAKER_00
Take Me to the River has a great beginning.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m going through your songs now, which is, I know you get bored by that, but it s great because I m asking, so it s something different.
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SPEAKER_00
Take Me to the River, Dana, you know, that one is such a killer beginning.
3
SPEAKER_00
Brilliant.
3
SPEAKER_00
And the only thing you need in the middle when you go drop me in the water, you could have me up there and I ll go,
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, that s his best sound effects.
3
SPEAKER_00
So if I m ever there, I ll jump up and could add that it s everyone can t do it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And the, uh, as, as we ve said before, the MTV generation growing up with me, the V was for the videos and it was for the music.
3
SPEAKER_00
And, um, it wasn t a 24 hours of ridiculousness, which is a show, which is actually really good, but they used to have more than one show on there and music videos.
3
SPEAKER_00
No one believes me, but that was a really fun time when you probably got a new song.
3
SPEAKER_00
It was probably kind of fun where they go, the next step literally is what s your video?
3
SPEAKER_00
Is that kind of how it was?
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
I really enjoyed making videos back then.
3
SPEAKER_02
You could, you had a song, you thought, okay, this might be the single and you could go out and do a video kind of cheaper, cheaply, kind of more cheaply than you can do today actually.
3
SPEAKER_02
And you know, they d run it.
3
SPEAKER_02
They were desperate for material.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then you were getting all their material for free from the record company.
3
SPEAKER_02
So if you could give them a video, they d start running it within a week, which was just kind of amazing for us.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s great.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, yeah, you re a blank slate and you re kind of an artist.
3
SPEAKER_00
You are an artist.
3
SPEAKER_00
So that must be fun.
3
SPEAKER_00
You ve got the song, which already wrote, you made that, that was one breakthrough.
3
SPEAKER_00
and now a song is working, and then you go, oh, now I get one more crack at it.
3
SPEAKER_00
The scary thing is, what s everyone gonna remember forever?
3
SPEAKER_00
Because you sort of, at my age, I would just picture the video when I hear the song.
3
SPEAKER_02
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_02
So you had to be a little bit careful, because you know that s what s gonna be burned into people s minds.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, we discovered that there were songs that, in those days, songs that broke because of the video.
3
SPEAKER_02
um oh yeah they get better yeah the radio maybe wasn t really playing it that much and then the video would people just they d play it over and over again and then the radio would kind of be forced to play it
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, for sure.
3
SPEAKER_00
It took on a new life.
3
SPEAKER_02
Mm-hmm.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it did seem, obviously, going back a little bit, your art school roots, like John Lennon, seemed like it was a natural fit for you.
3
SPEAKER_01
Everything had an artistic bent.
3
SPEAKER_01
And for a second, just American Utopia, the album and the show, it would appear to me that would be as satisfying as anything you ve done, this recent Broadway run, because the way you reinvented Broadway, I mean, you can speak to that.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, you reinvented it.
3
SPEAKER_01
with that stage show by everyone being mobile.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s that s pretty brilliant.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, go talk to that.
3
SPEAKER_02
To me that yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Starting way back with music videos, but being able to kind of do a stage show like that, it was kind of bringing together everything that got me excited, whether it was, you know, the staging or the choreography or the lighting and all those things.
3
SPEAKER_02
I kind of bring it all together in one package.
3
SPEAKER_02
And.
3
SPEAKER_02
The trick with the trick with Broadway, I think, was
3
SPEAKER_02
Getting the sound to be like, not Broadway sound.
3
SPEAKER_02
The sound mix on Broadway musicals tends to be of a certain type.
3
SPEAKER_02
We thought, no, we want this to sound like a real concert.
3
SPEAKER_02
We need people to understand the words and all that, which is, you can t always do at a music concert, but we need to do that.
3
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, that was a little bit of an uphill battle, but it worked.
3
SPEAKER_01
Really inspiring for the percussion section.
3
SPEAKER_01
So you knew you wanted the drummers to move, so you needed, rather than the drummer behind the kit, so you had multiple drummers, almost like a marching band, moving about in choreography.
3
SPEAKER_01
How were you?
3
SPEAKER_01
Did you do every show, David?
3
SPEAKER_01
Were you starring in every show?
3
SPEAKER_01
I had to.
3
SPEAKER_00
I had to.
3
SPEAKER_01
I d assumed that who could substitute for you.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m not going if he s not there.
3
SPEAKER_00
How did you pace yourself with that?
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, is that a beating?
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I do 60 minutes of standup and I lay down in a hammock afterwards and people fan me.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was packed in ice earlier today.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was packed in ice.
3
SPEAKER_01
I get packed in ice in my tub at the Holiday Inn.
3
SPEAKER_01
On a regular basis.
3
SPEAKER_01
Uh, but obviously you were having so much fun that that keeps fatigue at bay.
3
SPEAKER_01
You were enjoying it.
3
SPEAKER_02
Uh, yeah, I was enjoying it.
3
SPEAKER_02
I paced myself.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Um, I, I ran into Hugh Jackman at a dinner once.
3
SPEAKER_02
So I, so before I did the show on Broadway, I reached out to him and said, um,
3
SPEAKER_02
I m not used to doing, you know, shows, whatever, six or seven days a week or whatever it might be.
3
SPEAKER_02
Do you think I can do this?
3
SPEAKER_02
Do you have any advice for me?
3
SPEAKER_02
Because he s the only person I could think of who had done like a one man show singing the whole show.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
On Broadway.
3
SPEAKER_01
He s an athlete.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
And so I asked him, do you think I can do this?
3
SPEAKER_02
And he said, yeah, you can do you know, how s your voice?
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, my voice is fine.
3
SPEAKER_02
They said, you know,
3
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He said, don t go to parties after don t go, don t visit your, don t hang out with your friends at a bar after, because you will end up talking louder in a bar that you are singing on stage.
3
SPEAKER_02
And that will wear that s like doing a whole nother show.
3
SPEAKER_02
So he said, don t do that.
3
SPEAKER_02
Meet them for lunch the next day.
3
SPEAKER_02
he said, if you ve got two shows, don t pick an app in between the two shows, because that s your first inclination is, phew, got through that, now I need to rest up for the next one.
3
SPEAKER_02
He said, no, no, no, no, because then you re, whatever, you re
4
SPEAKER_00
energy and stuff will just drop down to zero and you got to build it all back up again for the next show.
4
SPEAKER_00
He said, you just got to, you know, push through it and then you ll be ready for the next one.
4
SPEAKER_02
Could I possibly, after this, get the Hugh Jackman s information?
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I need his number too.
4
SPEAKER_02
Because he seems to really be good about advising.
4
SPEAKER_01
I want my life coach.
4
SPEAKER_02
Just whatever, HughJackman.com.
4
SPEAKER_01
He also sounds boring.
4
SPEAKER_01
After the show, lay down in a hyperbolic chamber.
4
SPEAKER_01
Until the next show, I m like, well, how can I go out and get my kudos?
4
SPEAKER_01
I need some high fives.
4
SPEAKER_02
I would have told you, pack yourself in ice before the first show.
4
SPEAKER_02
Get repacked in between shows.
4
SPEAKER_02
How did you...
4
SPEAKER_02
How did you come down then to go to sleep or do you have a scotch on the rocks?
4
SPEAKER_02
Do you meditate?
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
I d have a couple of glass.
4
SPEAKER_00
I d go home, have a couple of glasses of wine and watch like some TV show.
4
SPEAKER_02
I call it brain candy.
4
SPEAKER_02
Right.
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SPEAKER_02
Just something that brain candy.
4
SPEAKER_00
Nothing.
4
SPEAKER_00
Nothing too heavy.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Nothing too emotional.
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SPEAKER_00
That would kind of make me dream weird dreams.
4
SPEAKER_01
Stuff like just the Saw movie franchise.
4
SPEAKER_01
I usually watch that.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
4
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If you want to put on movies called Clean Slate or Opportunity to Offset, I guarantee you, David, you are out within five minutes.
4
SPEAKER_02
You re like, what the fuck?
4
SPEAKER_02
Give me a little Chardonnay.
4
SPEAKER_02
You may want to have a third glass of wine.
4
SPEAKER_02
Be careful about that.
4
SPEAKER_02
When you see an abomination, you know, it starts to tip.
4
SPEAKER_02
There s two things I m really interested in.
4
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One is your fascination with the brain.
4
SPEAKER_02
Um, and I was gonna, I was curious what your thoughts are with the, the studies about psilocybin or ketamine in terms of helping with addiction and helping the brain.
4
SPEAKER_02
Cause you ve done a lot of stuff around the brain.
4
SPEAKER_02
You have that show where you come out with a brain, you talk about the brain.
4
SPEAKER_02
Um, and so where are you at with that now?
4
SPEAKER_02
What s your thoughts?
4
SPEAKER_02
What are you doing with the brain?
4
SPEAKER_00
I haven t tried any of those therapies.
4
SPEAKER_00
I watched the Michael Pollan show about psilocybin and stuff like that.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, you haven t done them?
4
SPEAKER_00
I haven t done them, but I kind of watched the show.
4
SPEAKER_00
It was all about that, treating those things as therapy and all that stuff, LSD and everything were used pretty successfully, it seems, for therapy.
4
SPEAKER_00
until it was made illegal.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then it was just like silence, no more research.
4
SPEAKER_00
You couldn t touch it.
4
SPEAKER_00
Everything, any kind of beneficial stuff that it did was all denied and
4
SPEAKER_00
shoved aside and it was all this government propaganda about how you would have babies that would look like fish or whatever.
4
SPEAKER_00
But now that s kind of, people are kind of getting back into it and kind of treating it seriously as a therapeutic thing.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I ve sort of thought, okay,
4
SPEAKER_00
probably have to monitor it really carefully, see how people respond.
4
SPEAKER_00
But for some things, yeah, like post-traumatic stress, things like that, it seems like it does help people.
4
SPEAKER_02
I was told this, I m sorry to interrupt, but I want to hear your response to this, is just that non-psychoactive psilocybin drops.
4
SPEAKER_02
Over time daily create bigger neural pathways and the metaphor was told to me is that if you re if you re stuck on a cycle of thinking.
4
SPEAKER_02
That s negative negative or whatever it s a it s like a little river going down a little stream going on a giant canyon.
4
SPEAKER_02
when you do these psilocybin drops over a period of time, your thoughts start to emancipate and you re seeing a gush of water, a big giant whoosh of water going down, and it frees open that negative pattern.
4
SPEAKER_02
So anyway, thoughts either of you guys?
4
SPEAKER_00
I could definitely see that that could be the case, that yeah, we do get stuck in our ways of thinking.
4
SPEAKER_00
If somebody s had a traumatic experience, they just kind of play that movie over and over again, and they need to kind of find a way out of it.
4
SPEAKER_01
And people are non-trusting the pharmaceutical companies more and more, so they re trying...
4
SPEAKER_01
you know, Eastern medicine, there s different things that everyone wants to try, just to say, what if there s something from the earth?
4
SPEAKER_01
What if there s something that I just haven t tried that they don t seem to want me to try, but it might be great for me?
4
SPEAKER_01
And I know a lot of people doing special K now and microdosing, and I really didn t know it was for real treatment other than just recreational, but they are saying- Special K is ketamine, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
Ketamine, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
Okay, special K. But you hear it s a horse tranquilizer, so you go,
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, I mean, I can t even do Z-Quill.
4
SPEAKER_01
I can t even do a full teaspoon.
4
SPEAKER_01
So I go, I don t think I need that because I, a horse is bigger than me.
4
SPEAKER_01
The last horse I saw.
4
SPEAKER_02
Ketamine is supposed to like, you go on a pretty heavy trip.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I guess if it works for your brain, what I m told is that it, you re able to get outside yourself and you re able to laugh at yourself and you have these revelations that last, even though you have a bit of nausea for a couple of days.
4
SPEAKER_02
And for three months, you re just freed from that locked negative thinking.
4
SPEAKER_02
So what are you, David, David Byrne, if you have the blues, you re feeling kind of down, do you go on a bike ride?
4
SPEAKER_02
Cause you re a big bike guy.
4
SPEAKER_02
You re always hungry, bud.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I ll do that.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
I ll do that.
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t, you know, I don t get the blues.
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t get depressed that often.
4
SPEAKER_00
And we all do sometimes, but, but in general, I m pretty upbeat.
4
SPEAKER_00
And if, if I m going through a difficult period, I ll just kind of go, okay, just keep going.
4
SPEAKER_00
Just keep going.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
That thing you did is look.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
That thing you did failed or it looks like it s not going to happen or yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
Could you possibly work that into a song?
4
SPEAKER_02
Like,
4
SPEAKER_02
I don t ever get the blues.
4
SPEAKER_02
You know, it s a blues song about a guy.
4
SPEAKER_02
I don t ever get the blues.
4
SPEAKER_02
You might find yourself not getting the blues.
4
SPEAKER_01
You might find yourself.
4
SPEAKER_00
So I had to do that as it ever was.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, no, I don t think nobody.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, I don t think people want to hear that.
4
SPEAKER_00
They don t want to hear like, oh, yeah, I m a super happy guy.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, blues does better.
4
SPEAKER_00
My life is great.
4
SPEAKER_00
And it s kind of like, well, fuck you.
4
SPEAKER_02
My latest self-talk, David, both Davids, is I just say big life, big life.
4
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Big life if you try a career, if you have children, if you have marriages, if you travel, if you buy things, if you make money, you can lose money.
4
SPEAKER_02
So big life,
4
SPEAKER_02
up and down, so you just accept it when problems come.
4
SPEAKER_02
This is big life, big problems, and that s your own self-talk to yourself, and that helps.
4
SPEAKER_02
I m interested in this because you seem so future all the time.
4
SPEAKER_02
Ask about that art stuff.
4
SPEAKER_02
Well,
4
SPEAKER_02
The robots have arrived.
4
SPEAKER_02
They re here.
4
SPEAKER_02
They re studying us.
4
SPEAKER_02
They re manipulating us.
4
SPEAKER_02
They re making everybody angry.
4
SPEAKER_02
And they re doing all kinds of things.
4
SPEAKER_02
And now they re in art.
4
SPEAKER_02
They re riding the hook.
4
SPEAKER_02
They re all over music.
4
SPEAKER_02
You don t have to write the music.
4
SPEAKER_02
You don t have to sing the music.
4
SPEAKER_02
You point to guys with AIs on computers, and then they put it together in a lab.
4
SPEAKER_02
And now in art, in visual art, recently in AI,
4
SPEAKER_02
drew a painting, they put in all this information, and it won first prize at this art show, and the real artists were really angry.
4
SPEAKER_02
So it just seems to me that since you re always future-future, are you going to incorporate with AI, or what are your thoughts about that, integrating with art?
4
SPEAKER_01
Sorry, sorry.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh yeah, it s his favorite thing is meeting together.
4
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
4
SPEAKER_00
No, I to be honest, no, I haven t thought about doing that.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I yeah, I remember reading about that, seeing the picture and thought that picture is kind of nice pictures, kind of nice.
4
SPEAKER_00
I saw.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s not not exactly what I would do, you know, but OK, that s nothing wrong with that.
4
SPEAKER_01
I blame the guy buying it.
4
SPEAKER_01
Because I blame the person who would buy that art or pay a lot of money for it because you don t want to make a market for that.
4
SPEAKER_01
There is something about what art is about coming from someone.
4
SPEAKER_01
Is that the picture, Dana?
4
SPEAKER_02
Well, it s just one I did recently.
4
SPEAKER_02
Could a robot make that?
4
SPEAKER_00
No, that s good.
4
SPEAKER_00
I sort of doubt it.
4
SPEAKER_01
No, but a four-year-old could.
4
SPEAKER_02
Someone was really bugging me.
4
SPEAKER_02
That s the person on top in the bubble and I was on the bottom and they were- I love it.
4
SPEAKER_01
Dana s got good art.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s real.
4
SPEAKER_01
I like it.
4
SPEAKER_02
No, it s just heartfelt.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s a cliche.
4
SPEAKER_02
I m not the artist, but I do do it for my own processing of thoughts.
4
SPEAKER_00
But I doubt that a machine would do that.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
That s the greatest thing anyone s ever said.
4
SPEAKER_02
David Byrne said a machine could not do my.
4
SPEAKER_02
No, I understand what you re saying.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I agree with you.
4
SPEAKER_02
I don t like it.
4
SPEAKER_02
I still think the human soul or the human brain can create stuff.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I think when I was reading your exit essay after American Utopia and about you find out later and it doesn t sound pretentious, but you find out later kind of what you were
4
SPEAKER_02
writing about commonly in your writing and in your art, that you re kind of doing it spontaneously from some place, and it may be not literal, and then a year later or whatever, you kind of figure out what it was.
5
SPEAKER_02
And I was interested in the very end, you said American utopia.
5
SPEAKER_02
It s not ironic.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_03
So it s just kind of a surprise coming from me because some of my material is ironic.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_03
But in this case, I thought, no, no, no, no.
5
SPEAKER_03
I want to really hold out some kind of
5
SPEAKER_03
either visually or in the songs and in the way we present it, the whole attitude and what I say, I want to hold out some kind of hope that all the things that we wish we could be and what we could be as a country and all that, that they re not all entirely out of reach, that we do have possibilities.
5
SPEAKER_02
Well, for me, I just read history and then I feel better.
5
SPEAKER_02
You know, right when the pandemic hit, you know, I read a book, The Splendid and the Vile.
5
SPEAKER_02
It was a brilliant book, but it was a new one about Churchill and the Blitz in London.
5
SPEAKER_02
And, you know, it just helped calm me down or read about the plague or the Middle Ages.
5
SPEAKER_02
And it gives you perspective.
5
SPEAKER_02
I ve seen people on an iPhone with a latte.
5
SPEAKER_02
going, is this the worst time to be alive?
5
SPEAKER_02
And there was no medicine until like maybe 50 years ago.
5
SPEAKER_02
You have a heart attack, they d shake your hand and give you a baby aspirin, see you later.
5
SPEAKER_02
Now they can put all this stuff in you.
5
SPEAKER_02
So you re kind of on this wavelength because you have this reason to be cheerful online thing.
5
SPEAKER_02
You re on this sort of happy, cheerful, if American Utopia means it s possible, that s very up message.
5
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_02
Reasons.
5
SPEAKER_02
The reason to be.
5
SPEAKER_02
What are the reasons to be cheerful, David Byrne?
5
SPEAKER_02
Well, wow.
5
SPEAKER_03
We we report on a lot of stuff.
5
SPEAKER_03
I haven t done a lot of writing for them recently, but we have a group of writers.
5
SPEAKER_03
They look for places around the world where people have found solutions to like.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_03
If some place in Italy where the the sea was getting overfished,
5
SPEAKER_03
And they kind of, the fisher, fish communities, the fishermen communities, they get together and then go, okay, we re going to manage this because we know if we overfish this, we re all screwed.
5
SPEAKER_03
We don t, that s our livelihood.
5
SPEAKER_03
So we have to kind of manage it.
5
SPEAKER_03
And they kind of figure out a way to do that, a way to kind of look out for people who were kind of,
5
SPEAKER_03
uh, breaking the rules or whatever.
5
SPEAKER_03
And sure enough, the fish come back and their, their catch increases.
5
SPEAKER_03
And so they end up making more money than they did before.
5
SPEAKER_03
Um, you know, happy ending.
5
SPEAKER_03
Good news is not reported.
5
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_02
Go ahead.
5
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_02
Nice to hear that stuff.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, we re biased towards bad news.
5
SPEAKER_03
We like to hear bad news, scary stuff.
5
SPEAKER_02
It feeds part of our brain, right?
5
SPEAKER_02
Somehow.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it s part of our brain.
5
SPEAKER_03
We like to be aware of what kind of lions and tigers are looming around the corner, as opposed to the nice stuff.
5
SPEAKER_03
So it s a little bit of an uphill battle, but but, you know, this stuff is happening.
5
SPEAKER_03
I m surprised at how much of it the writers are finding.
5
SPEAKER_02
You re right.
5
SPEAKER_02
I mean, it s probably an old stand up bit, but there s never a newsflash breaking news.
5
SPEAKER_02
Two hundred million people are relatively happy in North America.
5
SPEAKER_02
It s always going to be death and pain.
5
SPEAKER_02
I get an odd, I ll go down the rabbit hole a little bit in the morning and I go to myself, I said, I m being hypnotized into darkness.
5
SPEAKER_02
Because whatever is bad, with a robot stirring it, is going to be presented 10 times as bad.
5
SPEAKER_02
It is it s it s a trap to be unhappy your whole life, because I know tribal people.
5
SPEAKER_02
We don t really talk politics here, but they re in both camps and they re both just so angry.
5
SPEAKER_02
And I m like, what good is this doing right now?
5
SPEAKER_02
All this fury.
5
SPEAKER_02
But you re right.
5
SPEAKER_02
What part of the brain is that feeding is some primal part of our hypothalamus.
5
SPEAKER_03
It seems like it is.
5
SPEAKER_03
It s some sort of primal part that obviously evolved for
5
SPEAKER_03
something really useful to us.
5
SPEAKER_03
War.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, to be aware that what s that moving in the jungle?
5
SPEAKER_03
What s that moving?
5
SPEAKER_02
Fight or flight.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_03
If I run away,
5
SPEAKER_03
might not be anything, but if I run away, I m going to be all right.
5
SPEAKER_03
But if I stay and wait to find out, I might be dead.
5
SPEAKER_03
So better to run away, better to be fearful and suspicious than to just kind of sit it out and go, well, let s wait and see what it is.
5
SPEAKER_02
And it s a bioevolutionary, it s a Darwinian proposition because the people didn t run away, didn t live long enough to have kids.
5
SPEAKER_02
So we re predisposed, all of us, to be a little kind of jumpy because the ones who weren t dead.
5
SPEAKER_03
Exactly.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_03
And the algorithms on all the stuff kind of feed on that can feed on our propensity.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Covid was a real boon for them because it was like the first case got to America and they re like projecting 10 million dead.
5
SPEAKER_00
I go, well, someone just sneezed.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s it.
5
SPEAKER_00
One guy tested positive.
5
SPEAKER_00
We don t even know what s going on.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, no, no.
5
SPEAKER_00
Right now, you better, you know, make funeral arrangements.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m like,
5
SPEAKER_00
So it s like that where it s like a half truth or there s a piece of a truth where they can run with it and they run hard with it and they don t run the other way.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s always could be worse, might get worse, probably worse, instead of like, hey, we might pull out of this.
5
SPEAKER_00
And that s a tough one to live with every day.
5
SPEAKER_00
And that was hard, especially during COVID, because nothing else is really happening in your life except bad news on the TV 24 hours a day.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s tough.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, you could just dig really deep into that.
5
SPEAKER_03
There s not much else to do.
5
SPEAKER_03
When you re on tour, are the audiences back?
5
SPEAKER_00
You know, they are and they re excited and it seems like they want to laugh and they don t really want it super PC.
5
SPEAKER_00
They seem to appreciate that.
5
SPEAKER_00
If you re a comedian, the ones that come out to the clubs, that aren t on Twitter 24 hours a day complaining about it, there are some people that just say, just go do it, we ll decide if we like it or not, but give it to us.
5
SPEAKER_00
And if we don t like it, we ll boo, and that s part of the fun, or we ll not laugh, but as a comedian,
5
SPEAKER_00
is sort of an art also and you want to say whatever you want and that s usually how it was working for a long long time and then people are being scared to get cancelled and they don t want to say the wrong thing so we don t want the world to turn into the
5
SPEAKER_00
the eight, everyone s telling the same eight jokes that are approved by America, you know?
5
SPEAKER_00
And that s what happens.
5
SPEAKER_00
You go, okay, I walked out and everyone was happy.
5
SPEAKER_00
People go, it wasn t funny, but I didn t get mad, thank God.
5
SPEAKER_00
And you go, well, you got to sort of crack some eggs here.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you gotta, I don t get mad.
5
SPEAKER_00
I never try to complain to comedians when they re not funny or they do something too far.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m like, I would say they probably won t do that again or they might tweak it, but it s not my place to tell them.
5
SPEAKER_00
to complain about and say, get off stage.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s stupid to me.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_03
And I ve been to shows where somebody s done some stuff where I go, Oh, I crossed a line just across the line right there.
5
SPEAKER_03
But the rest of the show was really great.
5
SPEAKER_03
And I remember I ve been to some shows where I had to put my phone in the bag.
5
SPEAKER_03
I have no problem with it, but
5
SPEAKER_03
Do you go to comedy shows, David, or music?
5
SPEAKER_03
Every once in a while.
5
SPEAKER_02
I love it.
5
SPEAKER_02
Oh, I want to see you sitting in the back one day.
5
SPEAKER_02
That d be awesome.
5
SPEAKER_02
I d be nervous.
5
SPEAKER_02
I d bring up this podcast.
5
SPEAKER_03
No, I m there to laugh and have a good time.
5
SPEAKER_02
I think to your original idea, David Burr, was that, yes, we ve run into a little roadblock now with Ukraine and the economy, but there was a period, a short period post-COVID where the Roaring Twenties had it after the Spanish flu of, let s dance and get drunk and just because this could go away.
5
SPEAKER_02
So I think there was a gusher of ticket sales initially to- And then it went away.
5
SPEAKER_02
Well, now we re not having a Roaring, we re having all this other stuff again right now and COVID,
5
SPEAKER_01
Who knew, as Dr. Fauci would say, who knew there were so many mutations?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I didn t know.
5
SPEAKER_01
I thought you d be dancing in the street.
5
SPEAKER_02
But for me personally, being someone who does impressions as part of what I do, political comedy is the hottest oven of all of balancing that balancing act, because you ve got, you know, it s tribal and stuff.
5
SPEAKER_02
But
5
SPEAKER_02
I try to do Biden and I do Trump, but it s a delicate dance.
5
SPEAKER_02
I mostly want to have my true North Star to be funny.
5
SPEAKER_02
But have you found that in any of your work now?
5
SPEAKER_02
You re doing art exhibits at the Pace Gallery, trees and things, which are awesome.
5
SPEAKER_02
on gigantic walls that are beautiful.
5
SPEAKER_02
So where are you on the political spectrum?
5
SPEAKER_02
Can you, who are you voting on?
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Don t go there.
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No, but do you bring it into your, are you careful about anything when you re out there?
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Do you stay away from things?
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Wow.
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When I was doing American Utopia, there was, yeah, I would do some talking stuff, sometimes about issues and things in between some of the songs.
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And a lot of those were kind of political, although I made a point never to endorse a politician or a particular party.
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Right.
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I tried to keep it bipartisan and just talk about issues.
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That s smart.
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I talk about getting people to vote.
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And can we talk about that?
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Can I?
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The challenge was, can you figure out a way to talk about that?
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And it s funny.
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Yeah, that s true.
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If it s funny, then it doesn t come off as a teacher.
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You know, yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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Can I get some information across?
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But in a way that s funny.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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And sometimes that took a little bit of trial and error.
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SPEAKER_00
Let s see where the where the laughs are and how people react to that.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
So you re kind of a comedian in a way when you re out there.
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You do you have a monologue.
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There s room for that.
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Right.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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I m I wouldn t say I m a comedian, but I m learning some of the challenges that you all face.
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You know, people like a little levity and when they re out having fun and they already like you.
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I mean, that s half the battle being comic.
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So.
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They like you, they re there to see you.
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And in between songs, I think we asked McCartney, was that like a nerve, it s a nervous thing to, he tries stuff.
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He goes, oh, I m gonna say something here.
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And sometimes it turns into just part of the show, because if something works, he locks it in, you know?
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Exactly.
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And that s great, because the shows are so big, it s like hard to mess around with it.
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But yeah, there is a little room that must be fun, or one night go, I m gonna say this at this part.
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And it s something to think about.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, or some things happen in the news and you feel like, yeah, you want to acknowledge, not pretend like it didn t happen, but not turn the whole show into being about that.
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Yeah, it is.
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It s a delicate dance.
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So what s David?
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I have something and we ll let him go.
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I only have like 500 questions, but that s.
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SPEAKER_01
Well, I just I just researched you and you kept doing so much stuff.
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You can t stop.
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SPEAKER_01
My computer goes, all right, give me a break.
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Dingbat drawings, the tree drawings, the stuff during the pandemic.
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It s just it goes on and on artistically.
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SPEAKER_01
You re just you re you re ping pong in all these different areas, it seems.
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I m very lucky and I m having a good time.
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I m lucky that.
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That in a way, people accept that I can try these different things.
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Yeah.
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They don t always work, but people kind of allow me to try that stuff.
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Well, you look 30 years old.
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I mean, it s like you have drive and if you still drive, that s where the whole trick, you still like it.
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And I m scared one day when I was, when I m writing jokes and scribbling stuff and going.
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And if it gets hard, I go, well, what if one day I don t want to do this?
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You know, I don t have that in me anymore.
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And that s what you don t want.
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You know, you always want to still, it s fun to still do that stuff.
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I just don t want that fun to go away.
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So I think it s nice that you still think of a germ of an idea and go, there s really no limits.
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It doesn t have to be this.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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Cause you, you, you could be out there now with just bald face talking the talking heads review show.
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And just playing all your hits.
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You could.
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And people would pay a lot of money for that.
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SPEAKER_00
Of course.
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SPEAKER_00
Right up front.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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I ve gotten offers for that, but at the same time, I know that you re not going to be happy.
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SPEAKER_00
You re not going to be happy there.
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It s a Faustian deal.
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SPEAKER_02
Is that part of the equation too now?
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SPEAKER_02
Being happy?
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SPEAKER_02
Oh, I hope so.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_02
No, you re right though.
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But a lot of people don t think that way.
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They think they get scared and they move it out of fear.
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I get it.
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I mean, of course it would make sense if you went out with that again, but there also is, you ve got other things you want to do and it makes it seems more fun to do that.
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I think you started, you were yourself from the beginning and you never fell into that trap.
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And I think it s done you well.
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It s probably why you look so young and fresh and,
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SPEAKER_01
You know, what do you get?
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SPEAKER_01
I mean, how big a couch can you buy?
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SPEAKER_01
You need 20 bicycles.
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SPEAKER_01
I mean, there s a level to money where it s, we all, I love my healthcare and I would wish it on everyone in the world.
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That s my most prized possession, but I don t live in a giant place.
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I have one car, one wife, so.
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SPEAKER_01
He lives in a dump, David.
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I just, everything you own owns you back.
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And it s true.
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It s true.
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I realized, yeah, at some point, OK, I got enough bicycles.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
I don t my apartment s big enough.
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SPEAKER_00
I m fine.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
Well, that makes you rich in reverse.
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SPEAKER_00
You know, exactly.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
That also gives me the opportunity to try things that might fail.
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SPEAKER_01
Yes.
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SPEAKER_01
You don t have to you don t have to make
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400,000 net every month.
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SPEAKER_01
I just put out a specific number in order to make ends meet.
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SPEAKER_01
That s pretty big.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that d be crazy if someone had that much.
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SPEAKER_01
No, I m not there, no.
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But your expenses can creep up and then you can become a slave to them.
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But I do think, I m so admiring and a little bit envious that you keep reinventing yourself and you never stay
6
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stagnant.
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With me, a lot of the characters I did on SNL, the audience would like to see them, and I push them out there to a point.
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SPEAKER_01
And also in comedy, you have to feed the beast.
6
SPEAKER_01
You can t come back to the same city the next year.
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SPEAKER_01
You have to have a new hour.
6
SPEAKER_01
But I do think your path has been really fun to watch.
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SPEAKER_01
I ve been watching you a lot the last day and a half.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
in my research.
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SPEAKER_01
And you re like, this guy is having fun.
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SPEAKER_01
He can t be cooler.
6
SPEAKER_01
I know that s not your quest, but.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s good to be cool, though.
6
SPEAKER_01
Well, it just means you re following your true north star.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I don t know if you had a lot of therapy early on.
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SPEAKER_01
I finally got into therapy at 60, a little bit too late.
6
SPEAKER_01
But it seems like you had a sense of yourself and a confidence early on.
6
SPEAKER_00
I tried therapy for a while when I was having some relationship, marriage stuff.
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SPEAKER_00
Other than that, I think my therapy is, yeah.
6
SPEAKER_02
Let s roll some video from that therapy session.
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SPEAKER_00
Going for a bicycle ride or whatever.
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SPEAKER_02
I think we ve, thank you, David, for bearing with us.
6
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I know this isn t a typical sort of interview thing, but you re a lot of fun to talk to.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s been really a pleasure, David.
6
SPEAKER_01
Thank you.
6
SPEAKER_00
And you keep it up.
6
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If you happen to want to bring your Broadway show back,
6
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I would make my way to see it.
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SPEAKER_01
I don t know if you re not the type to repeat, but the reviews on that, I ll just say they were off the charts.
6
SPEAKER_01
So I don t know if you have plans to bring it back, but don t do it for me is my only message.
6
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Don t mount.
6
SPEAKER_01
I did this for Dana.
6
SPEAKER_00
Dana wanted to see.
6
SPEAKER_00
Do it for me.
6
SPEAKER_01
It is on HBO live streaming right now, right?
6
SPEAKER_01
Isn t it?
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, right.
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SPEAKER_01
So that s that s available for everybody.
6
SPEAKER_01
Let s do housekeeping at the very end.
6
SPEAKER_01
David Byrne, he he s got albums out.
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SPEAKER_01
He s got he s got art shows.
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SPEAKER_01
He s at the Pace Gallery.
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SPEAKER_01
Trees and yeah, Pace Gallery in New York City.
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SPEAKER_01
I m going to be there soon.
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SPEAKER_01
I m going to check that out.
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SPEAKER_01
He does neuro society.
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SPEAKER_01
I can t.
6
SPEAKER_01
Anything you want to add?
6
SPEAKER_00
No, that s good.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s good.
6
SPEAKER_01
Fans can consume.
6
SPEAKER_01
All right.
6
SPEAKER_01
Well, good luck on on your next podcast, David.
6
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
6
SPEAKER_02
But this is I m going to go buy some more bicycles.
6
SPEAKER_02
All right.
6
SPEAKER_02
Great to meet you both.
6
SPEAKER_02
Be well.
6
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
6
SPEAKER_02
Because he said, you know, you don t need more bicycles.
6
SPEAKER_02
This has been a podcast presentation of Cadence 13.
6
SPEAKER_02
Please listen, then rate, review and follow all episodes.
6
SPEAKER_02
Available now for free wherever you get your podcast.
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SPEAKER_01
No joke, folks.
6
SPEAKER_01
Fly on the Wall has been a presentation of Cadence 13, executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Chris Corcoran of Cadence 13 and Charlie Finan of Brillstein Entertainment.
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The show s lead producer is Greg Holtzman with production and engineering support from Serena Regan and Chris Basil of Cadence 13.