1
SPEAKER_00
 We were going to be talking for the next three weeks.
1
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Because there are many, many ways to fail.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's one of the reasons why I mastered scale.
1
SPEAKER_00
We try to go, here's an interesting pattern to possibly navigating the minefield.
1
SPEAKER_00
Here's an interesting pattern.
1
SPEAKER_00
Here's a good sensor, kind of concepts for doing this.
1
SPEAKER_00
Part of the reason why we put this in is because the natural thing that everyone goes, OK, I got it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Scale's religion.
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SPEAKER_00
I'm only going to do things at scale.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you actually, in fact, say, well, actually, every successful entrepreneurial venture, all of these things that have gotten a scale,
1
SPEAKER_00
 have done a set of things along the path that were essential to succeeding that were not themselves scale activities.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so people might buy into the religion too blindly.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you actually say, look, I know that I only succeed when I really get to this scale, whether it's the business or climate change or wisdom, but
1
SPEAKER_00
 If I don't do some things that are kind of experimenting with product market fit, taking some experiment and innovation, whether it's an organization or go-to-market, the organization of how you run or go-to-market, if I'm not doing some of that, I may miss that critical path
1
SPEAKER_00
 that unlocks the journey to magic at scale, the journey to how this really works in transforming the world and society we're living in.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so there's a whole set of different kinds of techniques where you go, well, that won't scale, so we're never going to do it.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's like, well, look, if you think it's really important, experiment with it.
1
SPEAKER_00
 see what's doable, and then you go, wow, it's really important.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay, so what version of this might I be able to scale?
1
SPEAKER_00
And that's essentially the through line through the chapter, which of course opens with, you know, Brian Chesky and Airbnb again.
1
SPEAKER_05
Yes, absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, no, I think that that, again, is a really significant note because it's so easy to just get lost in the numbers.
1
SPEAKER_05
And I really feel that it's even with the work I do, I found that
1
SPEAKER_05
 Ultimately, can you help one person have an incredible experience?
1
SPEAKER_05
And when you can do that for one person, you get trusted to do it with 10, and then 1,000, and then 100,000, and then a million, and a billion, whatever it may be.
1
SPEAKER_05
It's the idea of like, I really feel like being able to give one person a unique experience, and you just learn so much about that.
1
SPEAKER_05
 And I know that any founders that I know, they spend all their time looking at customer service in the beginning to try and figure out what part of the journey were people not truly feeling was working or was flowing for them.
1
SPEAKER_05
There's such a attention to detail there, which is often ignored when it's like, oh, we've got this many sales already.
1
SPEAKER_05
Could you give any examples, and again, you don't need to name names, Reed, of any companies that actually started off right
1
SPEAKER_05
 but maybe didn't apply some of this wisdom and you saw them fall off and again I'm not trying to point fingers or name names I'm trying to understand more that have you seen that where it looks like everything's going great but then there's something that isn't external but internal that breaks down
1
SPEAKER_00
 Well there's a number and to some degree any of the ones that were super hot once upon a time and then went away.
1
SPEAKER_00
Webvan or you know kind of all advantage or an early search engines excite or kind of excited home.
1
SPEAKER_00
There's all of these things that said look something
1
SPEAKER_00
 broke along that path to scale.
1
SPEAKER_00
There's also ones that also failed to get to scale.
1
SPEAKER_00
There are those patterns as well.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so it's a whole set of things where part of the journey of scaling is the problem changes.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like we opened with a discussion of entrepreneurs are problem solvers.
1
SPEAKER_00
Too often, one of the things that happens when you're a problem solver is, oh, I solved this version of the problem.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so I've got the tool.
1
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That's the hammer.
1
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I'm going to keep doing it.
1
SPEAKER_00
And the scale journeys involve, and that's why we have another chapter, Learn to Unlearn,
1
SPEAKER_00
 is changing the tool set up and the path that got you here is not necessarily the path that will get you there.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so sometimes you have to say, well, that really helped us launch our product, but the scale model is actually in fact doing deep embedded into SEO and Google, or the scale model is moving to telesales and an enterprise
1
SPEAKER_00
 model to bring to my product.
1
SPEAKER_00
For example, one of the things that was not anticipated at LinkedIn is we thought for the first X years it would all be individuals only and we thought individuals would expense their recruiting or their sales or their problem solving to the company but we found that the company started knocking at our door almost before we'd launched our subscription product going, well, we want an enterprise product.
1
SPEAKER_00
 I was like, oh.
1
SPEAKER_00
And by the way, this is kind of classic entrepreneurship.
1
SPEAKER_00
OK, so we listened.
1
SPEAKER_00
We said, well, that's different than our plan.
1
SPEAKER_00
How do we measure this?
1
SPEAKER_00
How do we have a bias to speed, action, and learning?
1
SPEAKER_00
And we said, OK, well, let's create a PowerPoint deck that describes a product, by the way, at this moment is totally fictional.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like we literally sat around for a weekend and said, the product could look like this.
1
SPEAKER_00
So let's mock it up, create a PowerPoint deck, and then go out and say, well, this is a product we're working on.
1
SPEAKER_00
What do you think about it?
1
SPEAKER_00
Would you buy it?
1
SPEAKER_00
 Right?
1
SPEAKER_00
And the first salespeople were very entrepreneurial.
1
SPEAKER_00
They're not the same as the scale success salespeople that LinkedIn has now.
1
SPEAKER_00
But those really came back and they said, well, we got some weird feedback on this one.
1
SPEAKER_00
We should change that.
1
SPEAKER_00
But this is the product we think that a bunch of people will initially buy.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so then we went and built it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
1
SPEAKER_00
And that's kind of classic for these kind of entrepreneurial journeys.
1
SPEAKER_05
 Yeah, I love that, I love that.
1
SPEAKER_05
It's always, I find that in all successful entrepreneurial journeys, you see this pivot, you see this moment where you're now creating something that wasn't the plan, it wasn't the business model, it wasn't the way you thought you were going to get to success or scale or speed.
1
SPEAKER_05
Rarely comes from something internally as well, right?
1
SPEAKER_05
It comes from how the customer's using it, playing with it, who's asking the right questions.
1
SPEAKER_05
In chapter three, Reid, you talk about the big idea.
1
SPEAKER_05
What is the big idea?
1
SPEAKER_05
 And I feel like, and I'm asking this question, you probably get this question all the time, I think it's important to ask it because I do think this is the majority of people that I connect to, that I meet, that I hear when I'm recording the podcast is
1
SPEAKER_05
 I think I have an idea but I'm too scared to take action on it or take it seriously because the whole journey seems overwhelming.
1
SPEAKER_05
Do I have to fundraise or not?
1
SPEAKER_05
Do I have the skills or not?
1
SPEAKER_05
 Are there too many competitors that are doing the same thing?
1
SPEAKER_05
Is my idea even original?
1
SPEAKER_05
I saw 10 companies like this fail last year.
1
SPEAKER_05
These are the things that go through our head.
1
SPEAKER_05
And then the most basic one, what will my friends say when this doesn't work out?
1
SPEAKER_05
What will my parents think of me that I left my college education to do this or I quit law to do this?
1
SPEAKER_05
These are the kind of things we're hearing all the time.
1
SPEAKER_05
 what do you say to people when they say that to you or when you see that when you hear that and i get that that's a big broad question but how do you try and help people narrow it down?
1
SPEAKER_00
 It's a very complicated question because it comes down to the individual and the individual's goals, purposes, strategy, risk tolerance, what kind of activity they want.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you have to always condition it based on it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now a few general principles which again apply very differently depending on kind of who you are.
1
SPEAKER_00
 is what circumstances you're in.
1
SPEAKER_00
How much risk can you take?
1
SPEAKER_00
Entrepreneurship always involves risk.
1
SPEAKER_00
Even if you think you've de-risked the idea a lot, there's always a lot of unknown unknowns and part of entrepreneurship you have to deal with the unknown unknowns in order to do this.
1
SPEAKER_00
 I think there's a question around, you don't do an entrepreneurial idea unless you can think of yourself doing it for the next 10 years, because part of success is like, would this be worth at least 10 years of my life in so doing?
1
SPEAKER_00
And if not, then great, not the thing that you need to do, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
And then when you go and talk to your friends about it and try to get some wisdom of the crowds around how does the thing work,
1
SPEAKER_00
 You don't ask them, do you like the idea?
1
SPEAKER_00
You don't ask them, do you think it can work?
1
SPEAKER_00
Because they will think that what you want is reassurance.
1
SPEAKER_00
 which you wanna say, what won't work about this idea?
1
SPEAKER_00
What could cause the idea to fail?
1
SPEAKER_00
Because if you get that feedback and then you begin to aggregate this, this also gets back to the learning from knows that we were talking about.
1
SPEAKER_00
You aggregate that feedback, then you have a better chance of taking smart risks, including choosing whether or not to do it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now, one last little kind of pro entrepreneurial tip for people who are daunted.
1
SPEAKER_00
 which is another thing that good entrepreneurs do is they kind of figure out how to experiment.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you say, well, I've got this idea.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's an idea for a new app.
1
SPEAKER_00
Maybe it's an idea for a mindfulness or wisdom app or something.
1
SPEAKER_00
You say, well, all right, but I'm really nervous about doing this.
1
SPEAKER_00
What could I do?
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, I could go buy some kind of, I could go put up a web page, describe what it is, say click on here if you're interested in this, and then buy some advertising against it.
1
SPEAKER_00
 and then see what the click-throughs look like.
1
SPEAKER_00
And if the click-throughs look totally fantastic, then I was like, well, maybe, shoot, that's data.
1
SPEAKER_00
Maybe I should go do this, because I've described all those.
1
SPEAKER_00
And if the click-throughs look bad, then you can say, well, maybe I didn't do the experiment the right way, or maybe I shouldn't do this.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so there's ways to experiment with things.
1
SPEAKER_00
People too often get stuck in their mind.
1
SPEAKER_00
 when do and then reflect, think, do, reflect, think, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
And be in that cycle on a relatively quick basis is central to solving these unknown, unknown problems.
1
SPEAKER_05
 Yeah, I'm so glad you added that last piece.
1
SPEAKER_05
I feel like experimenting is one of the greatest assets in skill.
1
SPEAKER_05
And the best thing about experiments are they can be free or very cheap.
1
SPEAKER_05
They can be very quick to do.
1
SPEAKER_05
You don't have to build for a year or waste time in your life.
1
SPEAKER_05
You could literally build it this weekend if you felt like it and tested something.
1
SPEAKER_05
And you get immediate feedback and response
1
SPEAKER_05
 from people that are not connected to your family or your friends or people that you feel oh well they're saying it because they're connected or they don't like it because I'm their friend and they know me and they want me to stay safe and so I couldn't agree with you more that I remember when when I first was starting what I was doing I think experimenting even today has always been my favorite way of realizing whether I should do something or not
1
SPEAKER_05
 And I love it because anyone who's sitting there going, it costs too much.
1
SPEAKER_05
Experimenting is free or cheap.
1
SPEAKER_05
Please remember that it takes too long.
1
SPEAKER_05
No, it doesn't.
1
SPEAKER_05
This could literally happen this weekend.
1
SPEAKER_05
And oh, it's, you know, well, who's going to use it anyway?
1
SPEAKER_05
You have no idea.
1
SPEAKER_05
That's the fun of it.
1
SPEAKER_05
And so I'm so happy you you really emphasize that point at the end there, because there's no better way to see whether your idea actually has legs.
1
SPEAKER_05
And oh, yes, please read.
1
SPEAKER_05
Go ahead.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Yeah, let me add one thing to this, which is people always think experiment is out in the world.
1
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes the experiment's with yourself, too.
1
SPEAKER_00
How does this make you feel?
1
SPEAKER_00
Do you feel stressed by it?
1
SPEAKER_00
Do you feel energized by it?
1
SPEAKER_00
That experimentation is also good.
1
SPEAKER_00
We have this presumption, because we're in our own heads, that we're the best experts of ourselves.
1
SPEAKER_00
And the answer is, of course, we have a depth of experience and all the rest.
1
SPEAKER_00
But actually, in fact, we have blind spots to ourselves.
1
SPEAKER_00
We have unknown unknowns about ourselves.
1
SPEAKER_00
And experimenting is useful there, too.
1
SPEAKER_05
 Yes, for sure.
1
SPEAKER_05
That deep check-in with ourselves is potentially why, when we ignore that, it's why we're seeking approval and validation from outside because we've not really sense checked the idea, the experience with ourselves.
1
SPEAKER_05
 I've often found the other way around that I've been so sure about my decisions and pretty much everyone in the room is saying no, but I'm still going to do it because I feel so sure.
1
SPEAKER_05
And I've always felt that that internal surety and assurance and confidence has actually made me feel stronger than even when everyone else agrees.
1
SPEAKER_05
And it wasn't for the same reason as you said earlier.
1
SPEAKER_05
For me, when I'm in a room when everyone agrees, it feels uncomfortable if I am not sure.
1
SPEAKER_05
 And I think often we're trying to make other people's assurances make up for our lack of assurance, but that actually never works and it never feels right, whereas it's the other way around.
1
SPEAKER_05
Your assurance can make up for everyone's lack of assurance and push the idea through.
1
SPEAKER_05
I see you nodding and laughing, so I feel like, okay, I'm understanding, I'm getting this right.
1
SPEAKER_05
Chapter four read was the one that I am most in love with, and it's because it's where I am at in my journey.
1
SPEAKER_05
 In terms of culture for my company culture for my teams, you know, we've been fast growing for the last few years Across my different ventures in different organizations.
1
SPEAKER_05
We have probably around 50 people now It's and it's not always people that I meet and see all the time.
1
SPEAKER_05
There's people working internationally there's there's people across working across time zones and in different areas of our company where I have chief operating officers and other individuals who manage them more on a day-to-day basis and as someone who is also
1
SPEAKER_05
 quote-unquote using industry language not seeing myself this way, talent and CEO.
1
SPEAKER_05
It's an interesting position to be in and it's something that I realized that I spent a lot of years trying to choose and figure out which one and I only just feel
1
SPEAKER_05
 This year I've kind of figured out how I want to balance the two and so when your chapter four is dedicated to what you call the never-ending project which is culture and I believe I'm on a culture 2.0 for my work and what I'm trying to create and you talk a lot about how your first employees in the company are important.
1
SPEAKER_05
 And you say if your company is dominated by one type of person, your collective blind spots will add up to tunnel vision, which I thought was fascinating.
1
SPEAKER_05
But the part of culture that I find most interesting is being able to sustain, continually inspire and create a culture that
1
SPEAKER_05
 people also want to be a part of.
1
SPEAKER_05
Now recruitment, retention and reward are all part of that puzzle.
1
SPEAKER_05
Let's go through each of them.
1
SPEAKER_05
Let's start with recruitment.
1
SPEAKER_05
What has been your favorite way of knowing you've made a good hire?
1
SPEAKER_05
What has been your favorite method, approach, tactic to hiring that has deeply helped or one that you've seen through the podcast that you've been blown away by?
1
SPEAKER_02
 A new season of Bridgerton is here.
1
SPEAKER_02
And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
1
SPEAKER_02
I'm your host, Gabrielle Collins.
1
SPEAKER_02
And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
1
SPEAKER_02
Colin Bridgerton has returned from his travels abroad.
1
SPEAKER_02
Is Betrothal written in the stars for the eligible bachelor?
1
SPEAKER_02
 Meanwhile, the ton is reverberating with speculation of who holds Lady Whistledown's pen.
1
SPEAKER_02
We're discussing it all.
1
SPEAKER_02
I sit down with Nicola Coughlin, Luke Newton, Shonda Rhimes, and more to offer an exclusive peek behind the scenes of each episode of the new season.
1
SPEAKER_02
Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
1
SPEAKER_02
Then,
1
SPEAKER_02
 Fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1
SPEAKER_02
Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday.
1
SPEAKER_01
Hey, everyone, this is Molly and Matt, and we're the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart Podcasts.
1
SPEAKER_04
It's a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting.
1
SPEAKER_01
 like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone, and so much more.
1
SPEAKER_04
We're back with season two of the podcast, which means more opportunities to glow up and become a more responsible and better adult, one life lesson at a time.
1
SPEAKER_01
And let me just tell you, this show is just as much for us as it is for you.
1
SPEAKER_01
So let's figure this stuff out together.
1
SPEAKER_01
This season, we're going to talk about whether or not we're financially and emotionally ready for dog ownership.
1
SPEAKER_04
 We're going to figure out the benefits of a high yield savings account.
1
SPEAKER_01
And what exactly are the duties of being a member of the wedding party?
1
SPEAKER_04
All that plus so much more.
1
SPEAKER_01
Let's learn about all of it and then some.
1
SPEAKER_01
Listen to Grown Up Stuff How to Adult on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1
SPEAKER_03
 When the Taliban banned music in Afghanistan, millions were plunged into silence.
1
SPEAKER_03
Radios were smashed.
1
SPEAKER_03
Cassettes burned.
1
SPEAKER_03
You could be beaten or jailed or killed for breaking the rules.
1
SPEAKER_03
And yet, Afghans did it anyway.
1
SPEAKER_03
This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol.
1
SPEAKER_03
 The danger they endured.
1
SPEAKER_05
They said my head should be cut off.
1
SPEAKER_03
The joy they brought to the nation.
1
SPEAKER_02
You're free completely.
1
SPEAKER_02
No one is there to destroy you.
1
SPEAKER_03
I'm John Legend.
1
SPEAKER_03
Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
1
SPEAKER_00
 So I think one of the really key things to do well is to not make hiring a solo journey for you as founder or CEO or for any manager or executive, but to rather make both the hiring decisioning, at least moderately a group journey, not just because of buying a group and all the rest, but even if you're like, look, I'm hiring a new, you know, VP of people, it's the beginning of an organization,
1
SPEAKER_00
 But you're like, and I will report to the CEO, but I wouldn't just do it as only the CEO.
1
SPEAKER_00
So that's one part of the hiring.
1
SPEAKER_00
But then the next part gets really critical, which is make a group responsible for the onboarding.
1
SPEAKER_00
 So that part of how a person comes up to speed quickly on the culture begins to add to it is not just the discussions that you have during the interviewing and reference checking and other kinds of things in the process, but also during the initial parts of work.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because if you have that, then you have the whole, you know,
1
SPEAKER_00
 a proxy of the organization reaching out and helping with that onboarding.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then that gets the detail of your question because how do you know that you've made a magnificent hire is when call it the three people or five people that you've made
1
SPEAKER_00
 jointly responsible for the onboarding all come back and say, oh, this new person, she's great.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, this new person, he's really interesting and he's doing well.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so, because then you can say, ah, I've got a lot of different touch points.
1
SPEAKER_00
And by the way, of course, one of the things is if you get three of them or two of them saying, hey, great, and the other two going, I don't know, you go, okay, well, let's see, I don't know, do I need to make an adjustment?
1
SPEAKER_00
That's not necessarily an adjustment of the person should meet with the organization, but you want to do all of the stuff early.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Because you usually when you have this magnificent partnering between new employees and the organization they're working, it starts on a very strong foot.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's rare that it starts on a weak foot and then converts.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you want as much of that initial strength as possible and you need the organization to kind of collectively work at it.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then by the way, ultimately make a decision because like,
1
SPEAKER_00
 If you go if you're 60 days in and you're like, this is a mistake Then you want to fix the mistake as as quickly but also as humanly as possible
1
SPEAKER_05
 Yes, I really appreciate that advice.
1
SPEAKER_05
I think that's the mistake I made first time round.
1
SPEAKER_05
The whole recruitment approach was one person led.
1
SPEAKER_05
It was very, very difficult to figure it out.
1
SPEAKER_05
And you're so right that as soon as we switch to a more group-based system, that in effect, and it's hard in the beginning because sometimes there isn't that big a group.
1
SPEAKER_05
 In the beginning it is just you and so you're kind of relying on yourself.
1
SPEAKER_05
But I like the idea of including people even if they're not full-time, even if they're people that work with you freelance or part-time that you trust and love.
1
SPEAKER_05
You may even have someone involved that you value in your personal life as part of the interview process.
1
SPEAKER_05
 I think that we think of that as weird or awkward but it's not at all because there may be someone in your personal life who you believe really understands you and knows you that could help with that process.
1
SPEAKER_05
So I think that's such a great way of thinking about it and such a simple way of solving the problem.
1
SPEAKER_05
Let's move on to retention, keeping that culture, growing that culture, preserving it, expanding it.
1
SPEAKER_05
 What are certain cultural principles?
1
SPEAKER_05
Every company has their own culture and everyone has their own deck and everyone puts their own words on the wall.
1
SPEAKER_05
What are some that you think underline all good company culture?
1
SPEAKER_05
Are there some key pillars, key themes that you believe are just integral to any successful company that kind of go beyond industry boundaries and backgrounds?
1
SPEAKER_00
 Well, I think there's patterns that you want in every culture.
1
SPEAKER_00
It doesn't necessarily mean they're instantiated the same way.
1
SPEAKER_00
So it's kind of the question of, what does excellence look like here?
1
SPEAKER_00
We always search excellence, but what is excellence for us?
1
SPEAKER_00
A culture should always be seeking excellence, but specific, not, we seek excellence.
1
SPEAKER_00
But our excellence is this sort.
1
SPEAKER_00
We are thoughtful.
1
SPEAKER_00
 multi-stakeholder inclusive.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's like what are the top priorities in terms of what you're doing.
1
SPEAKER_00
Another one is this is how we define our team play.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is the kind of way that we hold each other accountable.
1
SPEAKER_00
Part of defining a culture is like for example where
1
SPEAKER_00
 Should every employee be able to hold the founder or the CEO accountable?
1
SPEAKER_00
What should they hold that person accountable for?
1
SPEAKER_00
Like what's the way that we are running in that?
1
SPEAKER_00
And I think that's part of like what the pattern of that is.
1
SPEAKER_00
So like are we, we are move fast or we are.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Take intelligent risks or we are act like owners, you know, all of these things could be very good cultural elements But which one particularly define us and even though there might be a list of 20 virtues Part of culture is like well, these are the ones we most focus on These are the ones we most hold each other accountable to these are the ones that like when we're cross-checking
1
SPEAKER_00
 how we're evolving, how we're playing the game, how we're getting the scale.
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That cross-checking is still the thing that, with each other, that drives us forward.
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And you want to set that from the very earliest days.
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It grows, it can change.
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The mistake that people frequently have about thinking about culture is they think like a culture deck.
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They think it's like, you know, the Ten Commandments.
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You know, it's like it comes written in stone.
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And you're like, no, no, culture evolves.
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 And so you wanna have the right organism, the right set of people who are adding to it, who when you bring in a new person, they're a part of that organism too, also adding to it and also helping it adapt and change and expand with a foundation, but still organic and developing.
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 Yes, one of the ones that I think worked like that for me was as an entrepreneur one of your values naturally is risk-taking, it's expression, it's failing, it's figuring it out and I realized that actually for my team one of their biggest values was the exact opposite and it was safety.
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 and I started to realize how important safety was to team members and to me that blows my mind because I was just like I've never looked for safety in my life anywhere and it's so easy to get caught up in building a culture that is only for you but not everyone can work that way and I started to recognize how certain things we did even though we didn't do it
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 to have this impact, it would be seen as unsafe to someone, even though it was never from that mindset.
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The mindset was always growth and building and doing more amazing things, but how not bringing people on that journey made them feel unsafe.
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And so that one for me was a huge one that I had to realize that this idea of being proactive and risk-driven and all this actually had to be completely reverse engineered into a feeling of just safety and support.
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 which was new to me.
1
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And by the way, the nuance of course, which I'm certain was part of your journey is, which parts of safety, which were the fundamental, it's not safety on everything, safety in everywhere, it's which were the key parts that are part of this organization, this set of team play.
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And that's part of organic cultural evolution.
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Yes, yes.
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No, and that's why, yeah, I think that that nuance is,
1
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 is so clear that we live at a time where everyone's just like, well, should I make a company that's risky or that's this?
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And it's so much more about embracing polarities than it is about choosing one or the other blanketly, because that doesn't work either.
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So no, I love that distinction and so important.
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Chapter seven that I wanted to dive in, and I'm mixing and skipping now, is watch what they do, not what they say.
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And in terms of looking at the customer, and I find that
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 This is something that some people have an innate ability to spot patterns and notice how people are interacting.
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And, you know, sometimes I feel like my mind works like an algorithm and I feel like my mind's like just connecting dots and stuff.
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But at the same time, what are some of the most practical ways you've seen companies really listen, learn and watch their customers or people before they become customers?
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What have been some of the most masterful ways that companies have actually made systematize that?
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 Well there's a whole set and it goes from obviously consumer internet, which tends to be the software telemetry in terms of what's going on, to even physical hardware.
1
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Like for example watching on like one of the earliest things that's taught in design school from decades ago was watch the unboxing experience.
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Because while people you might say what did you most love, what did you most hate?
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 The person may not realize that the thing that caused them to start on the wrong foot was like, for example, a weird unboxing experience.
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And so the general truth of the matter is you always want to spend a little bit of time kind of observing a kind of an unguided and unforced interaction.
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 with the product or service that you're trying to do.
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And sometimes you need a lot of time.
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Sometimes you need a lot of people doing that.
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But you want to get some sense of it.
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Because if you don't have that sense, and some people, of course, are just totally natural at that intuition.
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This is among the brilliances of the Steve Jobs and so forth.
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But if you don't get that sense, then you could make some very fundamental bad assumptions, bad judgments.
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And too often,
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 Very, very few of us should totally prioritize, you know, I am genius.
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I know the product.
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It's always like, you know, be learning.
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Be learning from other people.
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Be learning from watching.
1
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And, you know, like for example, one of the things that I think people underappreciate in the kind of the Steve Jobs canon is how much that every time he kind of found an interesting new product, even one that he thought was completely bonkers.
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 he would invite the founder by for lunch or for breakfast or for coffee and talk to them because a way of learning is a way of doing that.
1
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And I think that is a similar kind of tactile nature of that.
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And so I think that's the thing is to try to get some observation and some engagement there is I think critical for every entrepreneur.
1
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Wow.
1
SPEAKER_05
And that's the side of Steve Jobs that's often
2
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 often not talked about or not often shared and it's really fascinating.
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For me, Steve Jobs has been such an inspiration in so many ways by studying his life and studying decisions, choices, his spiritual background.
2
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 There is such a fascinating individual.
2
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And I think, again, when we look at entrepreneurs and we study entrepreneurs, it's so important to not start putting them in boxes and then trying to choose which personality type we are, because people are so much more complex and multilayered and textured.
2
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 Like each interesting entrepreneurial journey is somewhat sui generis.
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So while there are archetypes that you should pay attention to, whether it's Jungian or anything else, the notion of what you're doing is you're creating something new.
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And by the way, you don't want to invent everything across the whole spectrum.
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You want to focus a set of new things.
2
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Usually the product or service, sometimes in the way you go to market, sometimes in the way you organize.
2
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 But one mistake that's kind of entertaining that entrepreneurs make is they invent new on everything.
2
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And actually, in fact, it is sui generis, it is unique, and a specific subset of inventions are what's key.
2
SPEAKER_00
 I love that.
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That's such an interesting and new way of thinking about it as well that I don't think that we've all fully considered.
2
SPEAKER_00
Reid, we've got a few more moments left with you.
2
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I've got a ton more questions for you, but I'm going to narrow some of them down.
2
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I wanted to ask you, before we dive into what we call the final five on On Purpose, which is our fast five,
2
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 I wanted to ask you, we were speaking earlier before we came live and we were talking about purpose and you were talking about how Masters of Scale is like philanthropic, it's service-based, it's extension, right?
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How important, at what point is purpose important?
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Is it important from the beginning?
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Does it usually evolve later for entrepreneurs?
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Where does it fit into the puzzle of joy, happiness, success?
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And where have you seen it being most beautifully incorporated?
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 Frequently entrepreneurs can make a mistake here because they go, look, there's this market opportunity.
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This technology enables this.
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I see this competitive space opening up.
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I see that I could now do this with this new technology.
2
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I could offer this product that's now based on the cloud or based on AI or based on mobile.
2
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And that's all very, by the way, very important.
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It's super relevant to the success of the entrepreneurial journey.
2
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 But these entrepreneurial journeys, they're team sports.
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They're not individual sports.
2
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And as part of a team sport, and part of the reason why whenever you look at any team organization, sports teams, military teams, other things, is that esprit de corps, that we're in this together, and that it matters that we're in this, and that we have pride that we're in this, pride with each other, pride with our families, pride with the society.
2
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And that is all part of having a purpose, part of having a mission.
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 And so defining that, like what is the world that we are seeking to make better?
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And by the way, it doesn't have, like, obviously the people trying to cure cancer is super important, but there's lots of aspects to making society better.
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This is how we are doing that.
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This is why the thing that we're adding in is so important.
2
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And so I think that that's important from the very earliest seedling
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 of the idea within all of these projects, but especially the entrepreneurial where you're trying to build these institutions that help transform society at scale.
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And so I think it's one of the things to start with on day zero.
2
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 That's brilliant, I love hearing that.
2
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That's music to my ears of course and the On Purpose community because I really believe that it's always there from the birth of the idea and the purpose is what keeps you going, it keeps you persevering, it keeps you through all those crazy late nights and early mornings and lack of sleep and the breakdown.
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The only thing that keeps you going is your purpose, whatever that may be.
2
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 I love hearing that.
2
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Now, Reid, I want to ask you the final five.
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These are the fast five where you have to answer the questions in one word or one sentence maximum.
2
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So, you have one sentence.
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Please feel free to play with that.
2
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Reid, these are your fast five.
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Are you ready?
2
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 I hope so.
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Awesome, I love it.
2
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So, the first question I have for you is, what is the best entrepreneurship advice you've ever received?
2
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Make decisions quickly and recover when you need to.
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Nice.
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Okay, great answer.
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What is the worst entrepreneurship advice you've ever received or given?
2
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Persevere against all odds.
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 And the answer is because you need to learn, right?
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So it isn't only perseverance, it's also adaptation.
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Yes, absolutely.
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Pivoting, learning, adapting, regenerating completely, if that's what it takes.
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Okay, third question.
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What is something that you once valued that you no longer value?
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Crazy hard work.
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 And what I mean by that was it's kind of a youthful thing, which is when you're 18, you're like, ah, you should pull an all-nighter.
2
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You should show that you could do it by pulling three all-nighters.
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And now I'm definitely of the working smart.
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You have to work hard on all these journeys, but working smart is the important governor on working hard.
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I love that.
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Great.
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Question number four.
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What's a daily habit that you don't negotiate with, that you always do no matter what?
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Adequate sleep.
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 How many hours do you sleep?
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Minimum six.
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With the occasional, frequently weekends, go to eight.
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Try to have one or two nights usually, mornings, usually on the weekends where you don't set an alarm and you wake up when your body is like, okay, I'm ready.
2
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Part of this is because we go through life, we make decisions all the time.
2
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We make multiple decisions all the day.
2
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And if you're making bad decisions, you're going to err.
2
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 And so you have to be cognitively in the right place, which, of course, is also mindfulness and purpose.
2
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But sleep is the baseline.
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I love that.
2
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That's such a great one.
2
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Such an important habit and underestimated.
2
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As a monk, I didn't sleep very much.
2
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But today, sleep is one of my biggest values, too.
2
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I couldn't agree more.
2
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All right.
2
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Fifth and final question, Reid, is if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
2
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Listen first, then speak.
2
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 Very, very great advice and would be an amazing law.
2
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Reid Hoffman, everyone.
2
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The book is called Masters of Scale, same name as the podcast.
2
SPEAKER_00
Surprising truths from the world's most successful entrepreneurs.
2
SPEAKER_00
You can go out and grab it right now.
2
SPEAKER_00
You will not regret it.
2
SPEAKER_00
You may want to get it for a friend and family member too.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Reid, again, it has been such a joy talking to you.
2
SPEAKER_00
And even through this screen, I feel your friendliness, I feel your kindness, I feel your graciousness.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's truly special.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's truly special.
2
SPEAKER_00
I've had this experience.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And actually, the other time I had it this week was actually with someone in person.
2
SPEAKER_00
But with you, I'm feeling it through the screen, which is really special.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I want to thank you for being so present, for being so conscious for our community and our audience today.
2
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You've really served them beautifully with your experience, wisdom, insight.
2
SPEAKER_00
I really, really hope everyone goes and grabs a copy.
2
SPEAKER_00
I can't wait for people to read it.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And I really again hope to see you in person very soon.
2
SPEAKER_00
So yeah, thank you so much.
2
SPEAKER_00
If any of you have been listening or watching, make sure that you tweet, Instagram, tag me and Reid because we'd love to see what are the nuggets of wisdom that you're going to apply.
2
SPEAKER_00
 What's the thing that you're practicing, experimenting with, exploring?
2
SPEAKER_00
I love being able to see what you're taking away from these episodes because they help me understand which questions to ask, what to improve, what to make better.
2
SPEAKER_00
So please, please, please tag me and Reid.
2
SPEAKER_00
And again, thank you so much for listening to On Purpose.
2
SPEAKER_00
And Reid, it's been a pleasure.
2
SPEAKER_00
Thank you so much.
2
SPEAKER_03
 With NFL news happening around the clock, you'll never be left on the outside looking in on the Insiders podcast, featuring myself, Tom Pellicero, along with Ian Rappaport, Mike Garofalo, Judy Batista, and NFL Network's team of experts.
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The Insiders has you covered with up-to-the-minute news from around the league, detailed team reports, and analysis that only the Insiders can deliver.
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Listen to the Insiders podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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 This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol.
2
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The joy they brought to the nation.
2
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You're free completely.
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No one is there to destroy you.
2
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The danger they endured.
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They said my head should be cut off.
2
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I'm John Legend.
2
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Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_04
 Guess what, Will?
2
SPEAKER_04
What's that, Mango?
2
SPEAKER_04
I've been trying to write a promo for our podcast, Part-Time Genius, but even though we've done over 250 episodes, we don't really talk about murders or cults.
2
SPEAKER_04
I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese, so I feel like that makes us pretty edgy.
2
SPEAKER_04
We also solve mysteries like how Chinese is your Chinese food and how do dollar stores make money?
2
SPEAKER_04
And then, of course, can you game a dog show?
2
SPEAKER_04
So what you're saying is everyone should be listening.
2
SPEAKER_04
Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.