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 This is episode number 1,214 with Dr. Uma Naidoo.
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Welcome to the School of Greatness.
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My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur.
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And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness.
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Thanks for spending some time with me today.
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Now let the class begin.
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 Welcome back my friend today's guest is Dr. Uma Naidoo and she is described as the world's first triple threat in the food and medicine space as a Harvard trained psychiatrist, professional chef, and trained nutritional specialist.
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And Dr. Naidoo founded and directs
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 the first hospital-based nutritional psychiatry service in the United States, and is the best-selling author of This Is Your Brain on Food, where she shows the cutting-edge science explaining the ways in which food contributes to our mental health and how a sound diet can help treat and prevent a wide range of psychological and cognitive health issues, from ADHD to anxiety, depression, OCD, and others.
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This is fascinating stuff on how our brain is
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 constantly being affected by the foods we eat.
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So in this episode, we discuss the best and worst foods for your mental health, the benefits and negative effects of different types of foods, how to optimize your brain health, how to develop strong nutritional habits and drop the unhealthy habits and so much more.
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I really love this episode.
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 And I know there's so much we can do to prevent the stress and anxiety and worry that could potentially come in our futures.
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And a lot of it comes down to the nutritional optimization of the brain foods that we could eat on a daily basis.
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So if you're inspired by this, make sure to share this with someone that you think
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 This would be helpful for as well and spread the message of greatness forward to a friend or post it on social media.
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You can use the link lewishouse.com slash 1214 or copy and paste on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening to this show.
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And I give a big thank you
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 to the fan of the week.
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This is from Canupria, who said, I love this podcast to the core, as it is the most real people with real information.
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And I've been through a very rough phase.
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And this podcast keeps me very positive.
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The reason it's the best podcast is that the people especially those related to the medical field are eye openers for me and explain every detail wonderfully.
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 Kunupriya, I'm so happy that you're getting a lot of value and inspiration from the different medical guests that we have on, but also just all the great guests in general.
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So thank you for leaving a review over on Apple Podcast and being the fan of the week.
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Okay, in just a moment, the one and only Dr. Uma Naidu.
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 This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp Online Therapy.
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We talk about BetterHelp a lot on this show, and this month we're discussing some of the stigmas around mental health.
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For example, some people think you should wait until things are unbearable to go to therapy, but that isn't true.
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Therapy is a tool to utilize before things get worse.
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 and it can help you avoid those low lows.
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And I'll admit, I used to be embarrassed about going to therapy, but I'm telling you, it is so important, and now it is so accessible as well.
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I highly recommend that everyone turn to BetterHelp to get started on their mental health journey.
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They are customized online therapy that offers video, phone, and even live chat sessions with your therapist, so you don't have to see anyone on camera if you don't want to.
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 It's much more affordable than in-person therapy and you can be matched with a therapist in under 48 hours.
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Give it a try and see why over 2 million people have used BetterHelp online therapy.
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This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp and School of Greatness listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com slash greatness.
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That's B-E-T-T-E-R-H-E-L-P.com slash greatness.
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 In your book, I've been diving in, it's amazing because you share these different foods that either hurt or help, things like depression, PTSD, ADHD, OCD, anxiety, sex drive, all these other things.
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I've been reading through all this stuff.
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It's fascinating.
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I have been a big fan of
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 Realizing that food is medicine for a long time And you're in your book you're talking about the actual science showing and proving that food is medicine now, is that correct?
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Absolutely.
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Well, thanks for the kind introduction and for hosting me and that that's what it is it's it's I think that the missing conversation has been around how food and nutrition impact our mental health and
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 We go into our doctor's offices and we talk about lots of things.
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We don't talk about our brain health, and we most certainly don't talk about nutrition enough.
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Part of that is doctors don't really study that much nutrition.
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But I think the niche that nutritional psychiatry fills
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 Is that conversation and helping understand that the food we eat impacts our mental well-being is newer science that has come forward What is the what would you say is the percentage if you could either guess or if there's percentages out there of how much food?
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percentage wise affects These negative side effects of mental health from anxiety depression and things like that is food a hundred percent responsible for these thoughts and feelings Is it fifty percent responsible?
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What would you say?
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 Off the top of my head, a clinical guess would be about 50% because I do think that environment, genetics, psychosocial factors, so many other things play into one's emotional well-being.
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But I think that by cleaning up a certain amount of how we eat, and that includes my diet, everyone, none of us is perfect.
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 by cleaning it up a little bit, I have seen people show significant improvement.
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And really, the path to this is understanding it's not a quick fix.
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It's not an overnight thing.
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It's really a prescription for a lifestyle change.
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And by doing it that way, it's sustainable.
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It's not just let's lose five pounds before the show or before the event or the wedding.
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It's sustainable.
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And people do lose weight, it turns out.
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 How do we build a sustainable nutritional lifestyle when we've been so conditioned with certain habits and foods for so long, especially here with the sad diet?
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Absolutely, the sad diet.
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It is sad, and I think that it's true.
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That's what we're used to, and I think it's understanding, firstly, it's educating ourselves and not relying on the wrong sources of education and information.
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 And by that I mean just simple things, understanding food labels, for example.
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I'm not saying you have to go deep into the nutrition science, but understanding that four grams of sugar is one teaspoon is a little bit of a trick for people because we cook in pounds and ounces.
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So every recipe in the United States is standardized.
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 You learn that in culinary school.
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And our food labels on grams.
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So most people picking up a small half a cup yogurt with fruit in it, because they've heard me say blueberries are great for you, don't realize there might be six or eight teaspoons of sugar, of added sugar.
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So it's educating ourselves and that power really comes back to us because we then eat in a healthier way.
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 I'm curious about the fruit and sugar or vegetables and sugar.
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If you have a certain amount of vegetables or fruit that is supposed to enhance something in your brain, but you also have
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 just as much refined sugar that you've poured on top of it.
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Are there any benefits to that or does the sugar override the benefits of the vegetables and the fruits?
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Have you heard the expression, you can't exercise out of a bad diet?
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Right.
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Right?
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It's not that dissimilar because you might be eating those servings of veggies and the nutrients are gonna get through.
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But the negative impact of what happens with the added and refined sugars is where the issue is.
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 Yeah, someone told me you can't outwork your mouth.
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You can just say, you can't outwork out your mouth.
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If you keep eating more and more, you're not gonna be able to outwork it.
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Okay, this is fascinating.
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Of these six on the cover of the book and more that you talk about in the book, the depression, PTSD, ADHD, anxiety, OCD, and let's say low sex drive,
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 Of those six, which have you seen the fastest or the best results based on a shift in food changes, in consuming different foods?
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Have you seen, and how fast can this happen?
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You said it doesn't happen overnight.
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 But are you starting to see this over a week or a few weeks based on certain changes or how does that work?
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So some of this answer is also dependent on understanding the science of the microbiome because each of our microbiomes is like a thumbprint.
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So a response a person has to the food is also dependent on their quota of microbes in the gut.
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 And therefore, the response times change.
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So I've seen people start to feel emotionally better, and the condition I see probably the most robust change is either depression or anxiety.
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People do, when they start to make those shifts, start to feel better.
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 That's within like a few days, overnight, a week or two.
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At least a week, at least a week.
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So they're doing the changes daily for a week, they start to feel better.
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They start to feel uplifted a little bit.
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They start to notice with people with anxiety, they start to notice by say cutting out or limiting a bad eating habit.
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 Let's not call it bad, that's severe, but a less healthy eating habit that they're starting to notice a change.
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But usually we know from the science of the microbiome that it takes about 28 days for there to be healing.
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So usually within the first month is a good guideline to say if you really are following this and you're being sincere about, look, no one is perfect, so if you're doing it 80% of the time at least, I ask people to do, and you really are limiting those foods that could be driving your condition,
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 that people start to feel better.
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But over time, it really gets better.
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And if they're sticking with it, it becomes almost part of how they live, which is what I want.
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And because then they're feeling a lot better.
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And then, you know.
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And so they keep doing it.
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They keep doing it.
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And that's the hook.
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That's what very often happens in that first week.
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Someone notices, not every single time, someone notices, wow, I'm sleeping better.
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 wow, I'm feeling less anxious when I wake up.
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But I will say that with anxiety specifically, it's not just one thing.
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Learning mindfulness, practicing and relaxation exercise, and actually doing those things when you're not having a panic attack.
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The worst thing you can say to someone who's feeling anxious is calm down.
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Stop feeling anxious.
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Stop feeling anxious, calm down.
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It doesn't make sense because when your system is in overdrive that way, you can't even hear.
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 What's the best thing to say to someone who's feeling anxious?
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The best thing is to actually have them tap into what you've either worked with them on in coaching or that they've learned in time.
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Breathing exercises, you know, mindfulness.
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 Do they respond to a walk in fresh air?
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Do they respond to getting on the treadmill for 10 minutes?
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Sometimes just burning off that angst can help people.
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So they have already almost pre-learned certain things that they can do.
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And that's what you want to help get them to calm down that episode.
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 But the great thing with nutrition and changing around how you're eating is that can help you all along.
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Because that's working no matter what else is going on.
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It's improving because it's working in the gut microbiome and the whole gut brain system and it's helping you.
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And how important is a healthy gut microbiome?
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 it's actually so important for all parts of our health.
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Right, not just mental health.
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Exactly.
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My focus is on nutritional psychiatry and therefore mental health, but you know, it's, um,
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 the gut microbiome is related to sleep, circadian rhythms, hormones, vitamin production, immunity, and mental health, as well as more.
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So the health of your gut microbes is uniquely becoming, I would say, even more important in this day and age, as we understand the science more.
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You see, the gut microbiome research is really only about a decade and a half to two decades old.
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It's newer science, and it really has unfolded the food-mood connection, or the nutritional psychiatry piece.
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 But at the same time, it's it's hugely important.
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So, you know things like inflammation of the gut Are being associated with conditions like depression anxiety cognitive disorders and more because it's being seen as an underlying mechanism Therefore if you're taking care of your gut health, you actually are taking care of quite a lot of
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 your brain health as well and everything else.
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Definitely your brain health, but even your physical health.
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Right, right.
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Yeah, I've been hearing a lot more about the gut microbiome and how it's connected to the brain and, you know, the thoughts are connected to the gut and all that stuff.
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But inflammation is one of the main causes, would you say, of brain stress or the anxiety of the brain?
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 Absolutely.
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So research is showing more and more that inflammation that is sort of chronic and insidious and is happening in our gut microbiome impacts the brain.
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And that, therefore, conditions like even Alzheimer's, cognitive disorders, depression, anxiety, when you start to improve your gut health, therefore, in that sort of cycle, improve your mental well-being as well.
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 So the same thing that's good for your gut microbiome is also the similar things that are good for your brain.
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For your brain health, absolutely.
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Brain health.
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You talk about brain foods, specific foods that we should be stocking our kitchen with.
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Can you share what some of these brain foods are?
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You have an acronym for them.
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I'm not sure if you have them all memorized.
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 So I'll give you a few to get you started.
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So I use the brain foods acronym to really almost have be a checklist for people.
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I like people to take a photograph of it or read it or list it in their phone so that when they're at the supermarket, they're picking out those nutrients.
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So, you know, bee is my favorite berries and my favorite berry is blueberry.
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Now they're rich in anthocyanins, they're rich in fiber.
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 They are colorful.
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And that brings me to the R, one of the R's, is to eat the color of the rainbow.
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And these are sort of things, Lewis said, many people overlook.
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Their doctors have said it or they've heard it or read it.
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But what we're uncovering in the science is that the color of the rainbow, the colors of vegetables, the phytonutrients in those interact with the gut microbes.
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These are powerful antioxidants.
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 powerful anti-inflammatory substances which impact things like depression, anxiety, and more.
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So it's no longer just eat a colorful salad.
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There's actual good evidence as to why we should be eating it.
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And does it matter if it's cooked or uncooked?
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 You know, the science on that varies, but my feeling about it is the following.
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When you have raw veggies, they have, you know, their microbiome intact, they're providing those bacteria, they're giving you good nutrients.
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So I like to play...I like people to do the following.
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Have some...say when they're preparing their vegetables for a roasted veggie dish, you know, keep some chopped veggies that you munch on.
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 and then roast the rest or whatever, baking the rest, whatever.
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So you're having a little bit of combination of both.
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Some raw, some cooked.
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Some cooked.
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But in things like, say, spinach, steaming the spinach can actually help lower the oxalate levels.
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So some of it is more specific.
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Okay, gotcha.
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Now here's a, I've heard a topic about fruits that some people say have as much as you want, others say,
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 the less fruit the better or do it in seasonal times or things like that.
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Have you seen anything where if people are only eating fruit that it helps or hurts them psychologically or can you never have too much fruit in moderation, I guess?
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 So I think when it comes to psychological health, one of the biggest things is how mental health and metabolic health are now connected.
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And what I mean by that is I talk about berries because they have a low glycemic index.
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So they have a powerful positive impact, eaten in moderation.
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So I don't mean four cups of blueberries a day, but I do mean about a half a cup at least is one of your servings of fruit in a day.
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 The issue with fruit is that the higher glycemic fruits, say the more tropical fruits, you know, mangoes and pineapples, those are actually less healthy for those with mental health because many individuals with mental health might have a struggle with weight and sometimes with metabolic health.
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 Interesting.
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And so if you have a lot of these high glycemic fruits, they store more fat.
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They could increase your weight.
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They could potentially increase your weight.
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Which could make you psychologically say, oh, I'm overweight or not confident in yourself.
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That as well as your metabolic health because it could impact your insulin resistance, your insulin sensitivity, your glucose load.
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So because in my clinical practice, I often see people who are struggling with their weight.
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And I don't mean low weight.
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I mean struggling with a little bit of extra weight.
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 They are taking medications like selective serotonin, reuptake inhibitors, Zoloft, Prozac, to name a few.
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One of the side effects is weight gain.
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Not everyone develops it, but many people do.
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Psychotropic medications, others, antipsychotics, also have a problem.
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They impact metabolic health and glycemic control, and they impact weight.
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So as a psychiatrist, you really have to be tuned into that.
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 to realize if you're gonna save food, qualify better food for that individual to eat.
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Because a person could eat two bananas a day and that could totally increase their weight.
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Are bananas on their own unhealthy?
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No.
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To an average person of normal weight who's exercising and leading a healthy lifestyle, perfectly fine to eat a banana.
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But to that individual, it may not be the best solution.
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So it's that caveat with mental health that's important.
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So what's the best fruit to eat if you're trying to lose weight?
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 So the best answer to that is stick with a couple of servings of different berries.
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Stick with a lifestyle that is supporting your weight loss, which goes from mindfulness all the way to hydration to outdoor time to good sleep and all of that, right?
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Because we know it's not just one thing.
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Eliminating stresses in your life.
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 Exactly.
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Stress is a huge driver of weight gain, right?
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Because of the impact on cortisol.
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So I would say stick with a couple of different types of berries and smaller servings and have those regularly.
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Because the fiber and the phytonutrients from them are still gonna help you.
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So I would never say exclude fruit completely unless your diabetologist has said, look, you need to do this in order to bring down your hemoglobin A1c.
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Then it's a different conversation.
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So when is fruit good for you then?
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 Because if you're trying to lose weight, I'm hearing it's not as good to have a lot of it.
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Not a lot of it.
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In moderation.
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Actually, to be honest, everything in moderation, right?
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Because every healthy food, you want to eat it in a portion-controlled sort of way.
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Food is actually always good for you.
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It provides nutrients, macronutrients, which are healthy for your body, healthy for your brain.
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 So whether it's the vitamin C from kiwi or if you're having leafy greens, not a fruit, but if you're having folate from leafy greens, that's affecting you in a positive way.
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So food is always a good option.
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But that also comes from my food philosophy, which is I am diet agnostic and I don't demonize a food group.
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 So if you come into me and say, I'm vegan or carnivore, my role as a nutritional psychiatrist is to improve your mental well-being.
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I will advise you how you can tweak your diet in a positive way.
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You may not agree with me, but I'm going to offer you that guidance.
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Because what I find is that people fall into these eat this, not that mentality.
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 Then they exclude entire food groups.
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Then they crave that food group.
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Then there's a rebound effect.
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And then they end up either gaining the weight or they end up being unhappy because they've started to consume a food that they previously gave up.
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It becomes a vicious cycle.
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They feel shameful.
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Like I said, they weren't going to eat something.
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Then they go eat it for a month.
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Regret.
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Depression.
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Feeling more anxious.
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Interesting.
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 And then almost unable to get back on that saddle of just eating a healthier diet Which I want people to to eat eat healthier foods as part of their lifestyle So it's a natural if they whether they're traveling whether they're walking through an airport or whether they're at home They're just reaching for those healthier options or carrying it with them.
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And what about antioxidants?
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Why are these so powerful for mental health?
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 So antioxidants have an extremely important impact through the gut microbiome, but also on the brain.
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In the natural process of life, we encounter different things that form these unhealthy substances in our body called radical oxygen species.
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 If left on their own, they can actually lead to cancer, heart disease, lots of bad things, as well as, you know, worsening our mental health.
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So what antioxidants do is they kind of...they interact with these radical oxygen species to almost neutralize them.
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And that's why they're so powerful.
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So that's why we should eat our antioxidants.
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Okay.
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And what foods are rich in antioxidants?
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 Starting with berries, but you know, they're also spices.
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That's that's something people don't realize there are spices that are rich in antioxidants like turmeric with a pinch of black pepper my nutritional psychiatry no-brainers add a black add a pinch of black pepper because that makes the turmeric more bioavailable and bioactive your body and
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 So spices, many of them have rich antioxidants.
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So the spice cabinet is probably one of the ones you're not tapping into to add antioxidants, as well as veggies, all these different colors of vegetables, you know, different bell peppers, different lettuces.
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All of these, you know, the purple carotenoids from carrots have rich antioxidants because of the nutrients in them.
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 What about the research that's been out about lectins and nightshades?
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Is this something that you would avoid or limit or is the science from your research not really saying there's an issue with nightshades and lectins?
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 So, you know, part of it depends on the person.
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If they are working with a physician who's asked them to, and their condition, if they've been asked to stay away from nightshades because of a certain condition, and it's been working for them, I'm not there to say stop doing that and eat everything.
0
SPEAKER_01
If it's working for them, absolutely.
0
SPEAKER_01
But many people come to me a little confused about where, you know, what foods include lectins and what they should avoid.
0
SPEAKER_01
 But there are also some culinary techniques where you can get around by food preparation, for example, if you like nuts.
0
SPEAKER_01
There's a way to get raw natural nuts, soak them in water overnight, rinse them out, and slow, it's not even roasting because it's such a low temperature, almost dry them out in the oven at a very low temperature, and that circumvents some of the anti-nutrients in them.
0
SPEAKER_01
 So there are always ways to think about food and make it healthier, or look at a cooking technique which could improve either the nutrient value or get around things like that.
0
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So I'd rather have that conversation than ask people to exclude things.
0
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Not about other people's research, but more about my approach to how I feel I can help individuals with their mental well-being.
0
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Because this is not just for someone with depression or anxiety.
0
SPEAKER_01
 A lot of people in the last few years have just been feeling a little off.
0
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And I use that term loosely.
0
SPEAKER_01
It's a little bit anxious, not sleeping well, feeling blue, just not, just feeling, there's a great article calling it languishing, you know, just not feeling good, just not feeling quite themselves.
0
SPEAKER_01
And so eating in a good way can help a lot of that without a prescription.
0
SPEAKER_00
 What would you say is the best cooking technique that you've learned to get the maximum result for optimal nutrition?
0
SPEAKER_00
Is it from the nuts?
0
SPEAKER_00
Is it from soaking something?
0
SPEAKER_00
Is it from some other type of food where you've seen, okay, here's the original raw form, and by applying this technique, it actually enhances it to really help your mental health, your brain that much more?
0
SPEAKER_00
Is there a technique like that?
0
SPEAKER_01
 I don't think there's one technique.
0
SPEAKER_01
I think that, I mentioned things like spinach and steaming it or applying gentle temperature, the nuts, that's specific to a better way to enjoy the nuts.
0
SPEAKER_01
Some people don't have a problem with nuts.
0
SPEAKER_01
They eat them and they feel okay.
0
SPEAKER_01
Now, the lectin research may refute that, but again, you pay attention to how you're feeling emotionally, how you're feeling physically, what your doctor's telling you, and you either continue or you change direction a little.
0
SPEAKER_01
 One thing I will say is that many people hear their doctor say, eat your vegetables, eat your greens, and they roll their eyes and they move on, they don't do it.
0
SPEAKER_01
Often it's that action step.
0
SPEAKER_01
One of the things I can say is just gently roasting vegetables in the oven with delicious flavors, putting in colorful veggies, adding spices, even your kids will want to eat it, because it's interesting, it's different.
0
SPEAKER_01
That, I think, is one of the things where you can really expand
0
SPEAKER_01
 and just little simple tricks like you can do your colorful roasted vegetables with different spices for the flavor, plus you can do your protein on.
0
SPEAKER_01
Whether you're plant-based, you eat tofu, whether you eat chicken, you can do it on the same sheet pan and that makes it super easy for someone to prepare dinner.
0
SPEAKER_00
The next thing you say is include lean proteins and plant-based proteins.
0
SPEAKER_00
From the science, you say you don't eliminate any diet or any food groups.
0
SPEAKER_01
I try my best not to, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
 There are so many people that try to say like, eat only meat and this is the way to go, and other people that say, be vegan, this is the way to go.
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SPEAKER_00
Is there science proving which foods are better, like lean proteins that are plant-based versus animal proteins?
0
SPEAKER_01
 So I will say that, you know, in nutrition science, they're usually things I can quote, and they're probably in the same day or same week or same year, at least three other articles which will refute that.
0
SPEAKER_01
Because that tends to be the spirit of nutrition science.
0
SPEAKER_01
You know, omega-3s, I've seen clinically.
0
SPEAKER_01
 help my patients time and time again.
0
SPEAKER_01
Usually, I like them to use food sources first, but some people prefer supplements or they do.
0
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And I've seen the improvements.
0
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Yet, there is research to say they're terrible, that you shouldn't use them, that kind of stuff.
0
SPEAKER_01
So I say this with an open mind, understanding that.
0
SPEAKER_01
 So I feel, you know, that the camps who, and they are sort of camps, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
Because they tend to be very polarized.
0
SPEAKER_01
Either only eat this and they, the individuals say who are plant-based will say, well, there's this studies to, you know, name a substance that is negative for your health because it is from meat.
0
SPEAKER_01
And then there are,
0
SPEAKER_01
 you know, people, individuals who eat meat who will say, but, you know, you don't get enough from just the plant.
0
SPEAKER_01
So there's always this polarization.
1
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 Here's what I feel about it.
1
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I think that the more we continue to have these camps, the more confused we are going to continue to be as a country and the worse our nutrition is going to get.
1
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Because most people
1
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 Well, it's not most people.
1
SPEAKER_02
A lot of people know the SAD diet and are consuming that.
1
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So anything we can move from that to a healthier version of that food, understanding what healthy whole foods are, is better for us.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think it's much more about that for more people than camps of eat this and not that.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I have difficulty with those because
1
SPEAKER_02
 I feel that science can support both sides of the argument.
1
SPEAKER_00
I know.
1
SPEAKER_00
You can always find evidence for each side.
1
SPEAKER_02
You can always find evidence for both sides.
1
SPEAKER_00
And something against the other side, probably, right?
1
SPEAKER_02
Exactly.
1
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And say, well, gee, you're missing this nutrient because you're plant-based, or you're missing that nutrient because you're eating or consuming more meat.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I think that's where most people in the public get confused.
1
SPEAKER_02
 And they come in and say to me, should I exclude this entire food group?
1
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Should I give up whole grain?
1
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Should I never eat a slice of this or that?
1
SPEAKER_02
And I think that perpetuating that is not good for us as a country.
1
SPEAKER_02
But if we can find a sensible way forward,
1
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 To for the most so not the people in different camps But those who just want to eat healthier want to feel emotionally better and we most of us need to right now With all that's going on.
1
SPEAKER_02
I Think it's a healthier way forward and and more sustainable.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah Hmm I'm curious about
1
SPEAKER_00
 Nuts, you mentioned nuts for a second.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is actually the next thing on the brain foods, the nuts.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm a big fan of nuts, but can you overdo it?
1
SPEAKER_00
I don't drink milk anymore, but I have the milk substitutions like almond milk and things like that.
1
SPEAKER_00
So if you're having the physical nuts and then you're having almond milk and then almond butter, is there too much of that?
1
SPEAKER_02
 So there's always, even a healthy food, we can overdo even a healthy food.
1
SPEAKER_02
So practicing, I'm not so much of a calorie counter as much as I am the source of food and the quality of food, and then paying attention to portions.
1
SPEAKER_02
So I mentioned blueberries, and I said, you know, that doesn't mean three cups of blueberries a day, because unfortunately then the load of the amount of sugar from that is not good for you, even though berries are healthy, and they have lots of nutrients in them.
1
SPEAKER_02
So similarly with nuts.
1
SPEAKER_02
 You want smaller servings and you want different types of nuts.
1
SPEAKER_02
My favorites are macadamia and hazelnuts.
1
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I eat them in smaller portions.
1
SPEAKER_02
For someone who likes nuts and they're going to consume that portion of nuts in a day,
1
SPEAKER_02
 You may want to switch to something like hemp milk, which by the way, you can make in like two, literally make in two easy steps.
1
SPEAKER_02
And hemp milk has the advantage of having short chain omega-3s in it because it's rich in ALA.
1
SPEAKER_00
So there's a good solution for... So if you're going to have nuts, you don't also have almond milk.
1
SPEAKER_02
 and nut butters and everything in the same day, in that same 24 hour period.
1
SPEAKER_00
Have hemp milk instead if you're gonna use a milk.
1
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Have hemp milk instead.
1
SPEAKER_02
Have your nut butter, but nut and seed butter, because you're getting other seeds and the value of that.
1
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And just don't have a ton of it.
1
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So everything in moderation.
1
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If you do eat more of it,
1
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 then maybe have that the next day and balance it up.
1
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It's similar to avocados.
1
SPEAKER_02
You'll have delicious avocados in California.
1
SPEAKER_02
The truth is a good serving in a day is about a quarter of a medium avocado to get the benefit of the healthy fats.
1
SPEAKER_00
Really?
1
SPEAKER_00
A quarter of a medium avocado?
1
SPEAKER_02
About a medium to large avocado.
1
SPEAKER_00
So not a whole avocado?
1
SPEAKER_02
 No, it becomes, what happens is it gets calorie dense at that point.
1
SPEAKER_02
And so, you know, it's balancing that up.
1
SPEAKER_02
Now, if you ate that for breakfast, that's okay.
1
SPEAKER_02
My policy around that is, you know, just course-correct to the next meal or the next day because you understand something a little bit better.
1
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
1
SPEAKER_00
Man, I'm so used to overeating, I think.
1
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 I think we all are.
1
SPEAKER_00
I eat a lot.
1
SPEAKER_00
I consume a lot.
1
SPEAKER_02
Well, we all do.
1
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And the thing about that is what I've learned over time is that I load up on my veggies because things like the sulforaphane-rich veggies, cauliflower, the cabbage, the Brussels sprout, low calorie, super rich in fiber.
1
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Fiber's great for your gut microbes.
1
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That's what feeds them.
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Great for your body in general.
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Your digestion.
1
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And your digestion, everything.
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 So by eating by filling my plate up with a lot of you know My nutritional psychiatry played with a lot of those veggies low-calorie gonna fill me up gonna be nutritious add in my spices to make them tasty That's a great way to go, you know And and that sort of what I find over time is that is filling and it has my blood sugar in a more even keel So if you're gonna overeat overeat vegetables, yeah Those vegetables those vegetables what are the vegetables you don't want to overeat?
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay
1
SPEAKER_02
 You don't want to overeat the sort of most starchy vegetables.
1
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And by that, I mean that they're going to impact your blood sugar in a different way.
1
SPEAKER_02
So we know that potatoes do that.
1
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We know that sweet potatoes do that.
1
SPEAKER_02
That doesn't mean you shouldn't eat them.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
Just don't overeat them.
1
SPEAKER_02
 just don't overeat them.
1
SPEAKER_02
Or my hack for potatoes, I mean, potatoes are delicious, but my hack for them is when you bake a potato and you allow it to cool, it changes the reaction within that potato to make it a resistant starch, which not only lowers the glycemic index, it actually makes it a healthy food.
1
SPEAKER_02
 So big potato is baked potatoes and then cool them and then, you know, really eat them up or whatever It's a process that happens within the potato.
1
SPEAKER_02
So having a baked potato Oh, but then cooled not hot bake it cool it and then you know heat it up or do whatever you're gonna do to To to have it with your topping interesting is actually what happens if you have it baked and you eat it hot and
1
SPEAKER_02
 So it hasn't gone through the process of that change, which makes it a resistant starch.
1
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The process is called retrogradation.
1
SPEAKER_02
So it hasn't gone through that.
1
SPEAKER_02
So you're kind of just eating the potato.
1
SPEAKER_00
So that's a good cooking strategy.
1
SPEAKER_02
That's a good cooking strategy to add.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_00
So bake the potato, cool it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like put it in the refrigerator or just let it sit out?
1
SPEAKER_02
 You can let it sit out, or you can place it in the fridge and have it for the next meal, something like that, allowing it to process.
1
SPEAKER_02
That just changes it into a different form and different effect on your microbiome, and that is healthier.
1
SPEAKER_02
Does that mean you should eat six a day?
1
SPEAKER_02
No.
1
SPEAKER_02
Should it mean you should eat one every day?
1
SPEAKER_02
No.
1
SPEAKER_02
It's still in moderation, but it's trying to prove my point that when I say potatoes, I don't mean never eat a potato.
1
SPEAKER_02
 You know, it's actually a vegetable we all eat and something that's at all our holiday tables, et cetera.
1
SPEAKER_02
So it's just kind of sort of understanding that a little bit and, you know, and thinking about it.
1
SPEAKER_00
 More fiber-rich foods, fish and fermented foods.
1
SPEAKER_00
How much, can you have too much fish in a day?
1
SPEAKER_00
And what is too much fish, I guess?
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, so generally two to three servings of fish a week are good.
1
SPEAKER_02
You can have more if you like a seafood diet or you're pescatarian.
1
SPEAKER_02
Certainly that's perfectly fine.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think, again, the source and the quality.
1
SPEAKER_02
So wild sockeye salmon, a fatty fish that's rich in omega-3s, good for your brain, good for your body.
1
SPEAKER_02
 Mussels, oysters, rich in zinc, great for your brain.
1
SPEAKER_02
So it's balancing that up with everything else that you're doing.
1
SPEAKER_02
Again, lean into those vegetables, leafy greens, the salads, all of that, as well as the fiber-rich foods, because you don't get fiber from animal or seafood protein.
1
SPEAKER_02
You get it from vegetables, fruit,
1
SPEAKER_02
 beans, nuts, seeds, lentils, legumes, and those healthy whole grains.
1
SPEAKER_02
So you need to add those fiber, the fiber-rich foods.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I always say fiber foods help your anxiety because they basically, they're your friend.
1
SPEAKER_02
They metabolize more slowly, so add those in.
1
SPEAKER_02
So, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
But seafood as well, it's portion control, eating better sauces if you can, and balancing it out with everything else.
1
SPEAKER_00
What about fermented foods?
1
SPEAKER_02
 So that's a good one because a good and recent study published in Cell, which is a highly reputable journal from the summer, from researchers at Stanford talked about fermented foods helping with that inflammation we mentioned and reducing it.
1
SPEAKER_02
So adding in a serving of fermented foods into each of your meals is a super great way to go.
1
SPEAKER_00
 What are the top tasting fermented foods?
1
SPEAKER_02
So I like kimchi.
1
SPEAKER_02
I like kimchi.
1
SPEAKER_02
It depends on the person's palate.
1
SPEAKER_02
Kefir, if you eat dairy, it's a soured yogurt.
1
SPEAKER_02
Get the plain kind, either to smoothie or something else.
1
SPEAKER_00
Soured yogurt, what's it called?
1
SPEAKER_02
 Kefir, K-E-F-I-R.
1
SPEAKER_00
Kefir.
1
SPEAKER_00
K-E-F-I-R.
1
SPEAKER_02
And they do have the fruited ones, so try to skip those, just get the plain.
1
SPEAKER_02
Kombucha, look for one that doesn't have a ton of added sugar in it.
1
SPEAKER_02
Miso, miso paste.
1
SPEAKER_02
I have a recipe in my book for miso-glazed sweet potatoes, and it actually is a great way to have your fermented food.
1
SPEAKER_02
 as well as, you know, more complex vegetable, but you can also add it to other veggies.
1
SPEAKER_02
I happen to pair it with sweet potatoes, but you can brush it on, the marinade onto other veggies.
1
SPEAKER_02
And almost every culture has a fermented food, so there are certainly several more, but that's some ways to get started.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Oils is the next one you have here.
1
SPEAKER_00
I've heard conflicting things on oils, that there are certain oils that are great for the brain food, that are great.
1
SPEAKER_00
But then also, isn't oil like a non-natural process where you're extracting something from the food and so it's processed still?
1
SPEAKER_02
 Right.
1
SPEAKER_02
So, you know, with the oils, the ones that I kind of recommend we or suggest we use are things like extra virgin olive oil.
1
SPEAKER_02
I use a little bit of avocado oil.
1
SPEAKER_02
But what you're referring to is a very important point because processed vegetable oils and those seed oils,
1
SPEAKER_02
 Especially the ones that are used in like fast-food restaurants because they cost effective Yeah Up prone inflammatory they up our omega-6 Levels in the body and so they are really driving inflammation instead of lowering it So it's a good reason and certainly for physical but also importantly mental health for us to be a little bit careful is extra virgin olive oil and avocado oil help decrease inflammation and
1
SPEAKER_02
 they have healthy fats in them, which are brain-healthy fats.
1
SPEAKER_02
So that's the way to think about them.
1
SPEAKER_02
And yes, they don't drive, they're not increasing, they're not pro-inflammatory.
1
SPEAKER_02
They're not driving inflammation.
1
SPEAKER_00
Those two.
1
SPEAKER_00
But if you have too much of it, it's too many calories, right?
1
SPEAKER_02
 Exactly, they can be very calorie dense.
1
SPEAKER_02
Now people who eat certain diets will say have as much olive oil as you want, put in as much butter as you want.
1
SPEAKER_02
Now butter's delicious, you can have butter, just have it in moderation, as with everything else.
1
SPEAKER_00
The next thing is omega-3 rich foods.
1
SPEAKER_00
So omega-3 is in fish, is that right?
1
SPEAKER_02
 Yes, so Omega-3s on fish, you get the short chain Omega-3s in some plant foods, the ALA, like hemp seeds, chia seeds, flax seeds, sea algae, sea vegetables.
1
SPEAKER_02
But the conversion to the longer chain is not as efficient.
1
SPEAKER_00
In the seeds?
1
SPEAKER_02
In the vegetable sources, the plant-based sources.
1
SPEAKER_00
As it is with fish?
1
SPEAKER_02
As it is with seafood, exactly.
1
SPEAKER_02
Seafood, gotcha.
1
SPEAKER_02
Or the fish.
1
SPEAKER_02
 My my the I feel that you know rather than struggling about whether you're gonna get that conversion in your body One of the things is if someone is plant-based consider an algal oil supplement Which can which can make up for that now not every person who is vegan may agree with that But it's a suggestion to suddenly for my patients.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm awesome to do that and I'll an algae supplement Exactly algal oil.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yep.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_00
Gotcha.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I
1
SPEAKER_00
 I wish there was just like one supplement you could take for everything.
1
SPEAKER_00
So dairy has, you say dairy is one of the things for brain foods as well.
1
SPEAKER_00
Is milk and dairy products...
1
SPEAKER_00
 really that good for you?
1
SPEAKER_00
I've heard a lot of different conflicting things about the inflammation behind milk and cheeses and things like that, but you say certain cheeses, yogurt and kefir, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
But what about milk and...
1
SPEAKER_02
 Absolutely, so you know I think that this comes down to the nature of your microbiome the nature of your health because in my practice from when I started I think that oh I know that my nutritional psychiatry plans have become much more highly personalized as we understand a little bit more about the science of the microbiome.
1
SPEAKER_02
Data does not agree with everyone.
1
SPEAKER_02
You know it besides the lactose intolerance
1
SPEAKER_02
 People may find it inflammatory.
1
SPEAKER_02
But again, it goes back to the source.
1
SPEAKER_02
If I'm recommending dairy or working with someone who does consume dairy, it's grass milk fed dairy.
1
SPEAKER_02
It's not just, you know, sort of the infused dairy, which is completely different.
1
SPEAKER_02
 Which is what we had growing up, absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_02
And so it's the sauce, it's finding alternate milks that, like you mentioned, that could, you know, could substitute that flavor that you might be used to, that richness.
1
SPEAKER_02
With the cheeses, it really is the look for the probiotic sauces.
1
SPEAKER_02
Remember that cheeses can be sheep's milk and goat's milk.
1
SPEAKER_02
 Because there's less of an issue around the dairy farming problem that we run into.
1
SPEAKER_02
So that's an option for people who like cheeses as well.
1
SPEAKER_00
Are those the top type of cheeses you recommend?
1
SPEAKER_00
Sheep and goat's milk cheese?
1
SPEAKER_02
If you don't like dairy, then you might want to consider those alternatives to cow's milk dairy products.
1
SPEAKER_00
If you love cheese like me, you're saying you recommend those?
1
SPEAKER_02
 I'm saying look for a good source and make sure that you're getting a good source of the cheese.
1
SPEAKER_02
If you drink milk, make sure it's a grass milk.
1
SPEAKER_00
Got it.
1
SPEAKER_02
Where you get it from becomes important, organic and all of that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Gotcha.
1
SPEAKER_02
That makes a difference.
1
SPEAKER_00
Last thing you talked about, spices.
1
SPEAKER_00
You already talked about it a little bit, but the turmeric with pepper and certain other spices.
1
SPEAKER_00
If you have no spices on your food, is it still okay if you're doing most of these things?
1
SPEAKER_02
 Absolutely, there's no hard and fast rules.
1
SPEAKER_02
So if you don't need spices, well, maybe you don't like them, but I would encourage you to explore a little bit outside of the box because many people just don't realize the brain benefit in their spice cabinet.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's often overlooked.
1
SPEAKER_02
It's, let's add a little bit of this and move on, but actually they're very powerful.
1
SPEAKER_00
 In chapter four, you talk about, I believe, trauma, PTSD and trauma.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm curious, what type of foods continue to emphasize traumatic experiences in our mind or in our thoughts, in our bodies, I guess?
1
SPEAKER_00
 There are certain foods that keep us living in traumatic patterns, and then there are other foods that help us heal traumatic memories, whether it be mentally or physically, from the past.
1
SPEAKER_02
Trauma is a very, very complicated subject, and it's something that
1
SPEAKER_02
 to be, you know, as a psychiatrist, there's not only one route to healing.
1
SPEAKER_02
And that's where, like with other conditions as well, all forms of therapies and healing and sometimes even medication become important.
1
SPEAKER_02
But if we would look just at the nutritional elements, going back to that sad diet, going back to the diet that produces inflammation in the body, the added and refined sugars that worsen our microbiome, impact inflammation in the brain, all of that just keeps you in that negative cycle, you know?
1
SPEAKER_02
 It keeps you, when you've experienced a traumatic event or more than one, your brain is dealing with that.
1
SPEAKER_02
So there's less of your brain available to making healthier choices.
1
SPEAKER_02
So what you want to do is almost think about it as eating in a way that calms down that brain and helps with the healing so that the person can actually heal from it and make those better choices.
1
SPEAKER_02
 So that's part of the psychological experience of it.
1
SPEAKER_02
But then, you know, foods that can help you, blueberries, actually, have a good amount of evidence, believe it or not, behind them.
1
SPEAKER_02
But then leaning into those antioxidant and anti-inflammatory rich foods and, you know, adding sort of almost revitalizing your diet.
1
SPEAKER_02
And where I always start with people is think about just one kind of unhealthy habit you've picked up during the pandemic, you know, and start there.
1
SPEAKER_02
 It's gonna help you.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
Limiting all that sugar.
1
SPEAKER_02
Exactly, and of course, you know, step away from the cookies, find a better alternative to the ice cream or whatever it is.
1
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_00
I did an interview with Dr. Daniel Amen, which I know you know as well.
1
SPEAKER_00
 And I'm curious, he talks a lot about brain health as well, and I did the whole brain scan.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don't know if you've done that as well.
1
SPEAKER_00
I haven't done it with him, but I've heard good things.
1
SPEAKER_00
It's fascinating what you learn about the traumas of the brain that you've had and all that stuff.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'm curious your thoughts on the effects of alcohol, smoking, vaping, and marijuana on the brain health, and how those things hurt or help your brain health.
1
SPEAKER_02
 Yeah, so let me start with smoking because lung cancer is still a massive killer in the United States.
1
SPEAKER_02
Putting COVID aside, putting heart disease aside, it's still a massive killer.
1
SPEAKER_02
So smoking, I can't really find a way, whereas with food or even alcohol or caffeine, substances that people sometimes don't consume, let's say, or don't eat, I can always find a way to
1
SPEAKER_02
 provide guidance around moderation.
1
SPEAKER_02
With smoking, it's hard for me to do that.
1
SPEAKER_00
There's no benefit.
1
SPEAKER_02
I can't find a benefit.
1
SPEAKER_02
I still haven't.
1
SPEAKER_02
My patients who I'm encouraging to give up smoking will tell me it helps them with their weight.
1
SPEAKER_02
 That's that's unfortunately just the only benefit but it's an unhealthy medicine unhealthy benefit because you know You you're kind of killing your lungs at the same time when you're creating COPD, which is very painful As you grow older to to suffer from and when you have that in your lungs, what does it do to your brain health?
1
SPEAKER_00
I
1
SPEAKER_02
 Well, for one thing, our bodies run on oxygen as well as nutrients.
1
SPEAKER_02
And if your lung capacity is getting lower and lower, it's not feeding your brain enough oxygen.
1
SPEAKER_02
You see this in COPD patients and people struggling with those conditions.
1
SPEAKER_02
So I can't justify that one, Louis.
1
SPEAKER_02
 With cannabis, the research is emerging.
1
SPEAKER_02
There's also separate to marijuana, there's the psychedelic research that's emerging in psychiatry.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think we'll be learning more and more about that.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think what gets confusing for the public is that because marijuana has been legalized in some states,
1
SPEAKER_02
 Recreational use is not the same as medical use that is regulated and prescribed.
1
SPEAKER_02
So there's a little bit of confusion with that.
1
SPEAKER_02
What I notice is in individuals who are using it recreationally or what I see in my hospital practices,
1
SPEAKER_02
 People don't often know what that that cannabis is mixed with and they can have from psychotic episodes to worsening anxiety They can lose touch with reality So it can be very mixed.
1
SPEAKER_02
So I think it's it's about the source.
1
SPEAKER_02
It's about whether it's prescribed It's about whether using it responsibly or you just kind of using it recreationally.
1
SPEAKER_00
There's a whole gamut of things there There's any research on brain health and vaping.
1
SPEAKER_00
I
1
SPEAKER_02
 Not that I'm familiar with off the top of my head.
1
SPEAKER_02
I will need to look into that because I think we, I don't personally know yet.
1
SPEAKER_02
And then with alcohol?
1
SPEAKER_02
But with alcohol, there's a good amount of research.
1
SPEAKER_02
But my feeling about it is offering people guidance around moderate use,
1
SPEAKER_02
 responsible use, because more people than not drink alcohol.
1
SPEAKER_02
So having them understand that becomes important, because it's, I know that, you know, for example, dry January is a big thing, and I encourage people, if that's something they wanna try, just make sure that if they've been drinking really heavily on the holidays, they don't just stop overnight, because they can go into physiological withdrawal, and be quite sick, and very anxious, and have the heart racing, and all sorts of things.
1
SPEAKER_02
 But if that's a healthy habit that they wanna make, go for it by all means.
1
SPEAKER_02
Just do it with some guidance.
1
SPEAKER_02
With alcohol, there are a couple of things.
1
SPEAKER_02
Pay attention to your body intelligence, one of the principles and pillars of nutritional psychiatry.
1
SPEAKER_02
So if you're drinking alcohol and you're not feeling good, pay attention to that.
1
SPEAKER_02
Or if you're feeling like you need two more glasses of wine to feel okay during COVID, that has become a problem to a lot of people.
1
SPEAKER_02
We know that alcohol and drug use increased during COVID.
1
SPEAKER_02
 That's important to pay attention.
1
SPEAKER_02
If you're leaning on a glass of wine to help you sleep, it's gonna disrupt your sleep architecture.
1
SPEAKER_02
So all of that being said, if you're drinking moderation, enjoying a cocktail, have a clean cocktail.
1
SPEAKER_02
Avoid those simple syrup, which is simply sugar, the added liquors, which is just messing it up.
1
SPEAKER_02
You know, just have a clean cocktail.
1
SPEAKER_02
 And wine, red wines, whatever it is you're drinking, stay within some guidelines, moderation.
1
SPEAKER_02
And if it's something you want to give up, speak with a doctor because you don't want to go from six glasses of wine a day, shouldn't be drinking, to zero.
1
SPEAKER_02
You want to do it gradually so that your body can handle it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Have you seen anything on the science around sparkling water, carbonated water, on how that affects either the gut or the brain?
1
SPEAKER_02
 a little bit and I want to actually learn a bit more about it because people have said... Because I love sparkling water.
1
SPEAKER_02
Exactly, and I drink sparkling water, a plain, you know, because I like water as, you know, my go-to beverage that I sip on and actually it has a good amount of evidence in mental health because dehydration can worsen anxiety and precipitate panic and low levels of water and actually dehydration has been, there's an association with depression as well.
1
SPEAKER_02
 So, you know, it's important to keep our bodies running.
1
SPEAKER_02
But the combination, I've heard things about, you know, the impact of the microbiome.
1
SPEAKER_02
I'm just not sure.
1
SPEAKER_02
So that's something I want to look into.
1
SPEAKER_00
I'd love to learn that.
1
SPEAKER_00
If you get the research, let me know.
1
SPEAKER_02
I will.
1
SPEAKER_02
I will.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because I want to make sure that I'm not drinking too much of it.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Because I don't drink any alcohol and so I've never been I've never been drunk I'll have like a Bailey's on ice.
1
SPEAKER_00
Maybe like once or twice a year.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, and that's about it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah and Water gets boring after a while.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don't want to have soda.
1
SPEAKER_00
I pretty much eliminated soda from my life.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah forever occasionally.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah
1
SPEAKER_00
 So it's like, and I know that, you know, fruit juices like lemonade or something has a lot of sugar in it.
1
SPEAKER_02
So it's like... Do you flavor your water with like citrus or berries or just a natural?
1
SPEAKER_00
I don't like berries, which is bad.
1
SPEAKER_00
That's okay.
1
SPEAKER_02
 pieces of citrus pieces of Kiwi Maybe something like a thing of lemon just put it exactly a fresh squeeze of lemon a fresh squeeze of actual orange Very different from a juice, you know, the actual squeeze of that really just helps to give you a little bit of a different flavor Yeah, like that and lots of ice, you know change it up a little yeah, I guess start doing that more You also have some
1
SPEAKER_00
 Great research in here, which I think some people will like this chapter on, I guess, libido, the foods that you should be eating that can enhance your libido or the foods that will hurt your libido.
1
SPEAKER_00
Can you share a few of the positive and the negative ones?
1
SPEAKER_02
Sure.
1
SPEAKER_02
So, you know, the ones that you want to be leaning into this long list, but, you know, dark chocolate, people will be happy to know, extra dark natural chocolate, that's, you know, 75% or higher.
1
SPEAKER_02
 is actually good and is an oxytocin-rich food, pistachio nuts, avocado, apples, there are a few that you can tap into.
1
SPEAKER_02
And, you know, cleaning up that, it goes back to cleaning up that diet, you know, there's a certain amount of research on that.
1
SPEAKER_00
 Let's see, soy protein was one?
1
SPEAKER_02
In men, yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
For men, to avoid.
1
SPEAKER_00
For women, it's okay?
1
SPEAKER_02
It was what the research showed that wasn't as problematic for women.
1
SPEAKER_02
So, it's sort of interesting there, but again, you know, it's a lot of...
1
SPEAKER_02
 Asian countries a lot of actually in the US, you know, sorry That's the sources of soil, right?
1
SPEAKER_02
So non Jim well sourced organic tofu Actual edamame soybeans, you know versus some sort of processed version those become important
1
SPEAKER_00
 Sugar is a big thing as well to avoid.
1
SPEAKER_02
It comes back to that sad diet.
1
SPEAKER_00
If you could eliminate one food from everyone's diet forever, if you just say, we had to eliminate one thing from the earth, no one could ever eat this specific thing, what would that be?
1
SPEAKER_00
To help us improve our mental health, our brains, our overall physical health, our gut microbiome.
1
SPEAKER_02
 It would be refined sugars.
1
SPEAKER_02
Because we have sugar in, you know, many different foods get broken down to sugar, but it's the refined, those added and refined sugars.
1
SPEAKER_02
 So, you know, how high fructose corn syrup got developed in the food industry.
1
SPEAKER_02
All of those things really did change the nature of our food.
1
SPEAKER_02
And so adding refined sugars, I think, would make a difference if... Getting rid of those.
1
SPEAKER_02
Getting rid of those would make a difference.
1
SPEAKER_00
What are three great substitutes instead of refined sugar if they're used to putting sugar in coffee or, I don't know, on top of foods?
1
SPEAKER_00
 What would be three, in moderation, substitutes that would maybe even benefit if you took these things?
1
SPEAKER_02
So berries, we'll go back to that.
1
SPEAKER_02
I know you don't like them, but a piece of fruit.
1
SPEAKER_02
So I like a little clementine.
1
SPEAKER_02
They're tiny, they're small, you eat a little bit of it.
1
SPEAKER_02
 Cinnamon.
1
SPEAKER_02
Cinnamon is a spice that actually offers sweetness.
1
SPEAKER_02
Along with that, I think pumpkin pie spice.
1
SPEAKER_02
So those all have a little bit of sweetness without the actual sugar.
1
SPEAKER_02
So although, unless you have a spice that is a blend which has sugar added, that's different.
1
SPEAKER_02
I'm talking about the pure spice.
1
SPEAKER_00
Pumpkin pie spice, cinnamon.
1
SPEAKER_02
Cinnamon all have a little bit of the sweetness because the spices have sweetness.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I guess the third one would be,
1
SPEAKER_02
 Yes, we do.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like honey, agave, those...
1
SPEAKER_02
 Right, so I use a touch of honey in things, and the reason is that honey, I know individuals who are plant-based won't consume honey, but honey has a lot of other health benefits.
1
SPEAKER_02
It helps immunity, it helps a lot of other stuff, so a good source of like manuka honey or really well-sourced honey could actually have other health benefits.
1
SPEAKER_02
So for me, if I'm sweetening a whole batch of chia pudding that I'm using, I'm not using a ton of it, I'm using a touch of honey.
1
SPEAKER_02
You know, just- What's a touch?
1
SPEAKER_00
Because I love honey.
1
SPEAKER_02
 Right.
1
SPEAKER_02
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_02
So it's like if I'm making a whole bowl of, say, two or three cups, I would probably use not more than a teaspoon.
1
SPEAKER_02
For a large batch, it's not much.
1
SPEAKER_02
So for me, over time, I've
2
SPEAKER_01
 kind of honed my sweet senses to having less sugar.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I can do that.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it's a process.
2
SPEAKER_01
Even my patients will tell me it's a process.
2
SPEAKER_01
From a candy bar, going, teaching them to eat and get used, have their palate get used to a dark, natural chocolate that actually is low in serotonin and magnesium and lots of good things for you.
2
SPEAKER_01
 they go from a whole candy bar to eating a square or two because their palate changes.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that part of it is that, you know, the candy bars often the sugar that tastes good and that is wanting us to eat more as well.
2
SPEAKER_01
It gets into that vicious cycle.
2
SPEAKER_00
 You've been studying this for a long time.
2
SPEAKER_00
You teach this to a lot of people with your clients, but you're also now teaching this to nutritionists and other experts in the world.
2
SPEAKER_00
What's the thing that you struggle with the most in your own, with all the information that you know, with your own food intake?
2
SPEAKER_00
Or I guess, what's the thing that's challenging for you?
2
SPEAKER_01
So this is a great question because with the emergence of my book during a pandemic,
2
SPEAKER_01
 sharing my book with the world became almost an entire job on its own.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's a lot of work.
2
SPEAKER_00
Marketing and promoting.
2
SPEAKER_00
Exactly, you know.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's a lot of work.
2
SPEAKER_01
The thing that I really had to relearn was my time management around food preparation.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I say that as a chef.
2
SPEAKER_01
I say that as someone who talks about meal preparation as being so important because what would happen, Lewis, is I would be going from one podcast to the next and I would not realize I didn't have a lunch break.
2
SPEAKER_01
Grab something, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
 I would be sitting with the virtual world and promoting the book, be sitting on one interview after the next and have forgotten my water bottle.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so really I had to take a step back and reevaluate how I was gonna handle it because like I said, it became like a whole other job.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so trust me when I say my nutrition is not perfect.
2
SPEAKER_01
I've had to relearn a lot of that again and say Wednesday's gonna be my meal prep day and I'm gonna go back to making my chia pudding and stuff because it was so thrown off
2
SPEAKER_01
 by the pandemic and needing to promote and share my book without any media being available.
2
SPEAKER_00
Chia pudding, is that a healthy dessert?
2
SPEAKER_01
So you can actually have it in many different ways.
2
SPEAKER_01
I have it as a breakfast, I have it as a dessert.
2
SPEAKER_01
So the great thing about chia pudding is it's all about the ratio of the chia seeds to the coconut milk.
2
SPEAKER_01
 And then the seeds expand and gel and they form like their own little pudding.
2
SPEAKER_01
So you don't need much of it to be very satiated because they're rich in fiber and protein.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then you get some healthy fat from the coconut milk.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I top it, so if I'm having in the morning, I'll put, I know, berries.
2
SPEAKER_01
But if I want to do this more for an evening dessert, I'll either add some, make it a cocoa flavor with
2
SPEAKER_00
 Some cacao nibs or something?
2
SPEAKER_01
Some cacao nibs for crunch or add in some natural cacao powder when I'm making it.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, you can play with it and really get something good out of it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Or I have my turmeric in it.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then just switch it out with maybe some crunchy nuts for the evening or whatever it is.
2
SPEAKER_01
So you can actually have it as a snack whenever you want.
2
SPEAKER_00
How do you make this?
2
SPEAKER_01
 It's very simple.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don't have the ratio with me, but it's because I usually make it in large batches.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's a small amount of chia seeds.
2
SPEAKER_01
It's with coconut milk.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it's basically two ingredients.
2
SPEAKER_01
You make sure that it's blended.
2
SPEAKER_01
You just use a spoon.
2
SPEAKER_01
And what I do is I set it out in little mini ramekins.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I have a little chia pudding.
2
SPEAKER_01
You can use jars and seal it.
2
SPEAKER_01
The little tiny mason jars, you can use little ramekins and cover it with
2
SPEAKER_01
 you know, kind of a plastic wrap.
2
SPEAKER_01
So that it's sealed and then you can use it at least for seven days at a time.
2
SPEAKER_01
You can make a batch and it sets overnight.
2
SPEAKER_00
So you just mix in coconut milk with chia seeds in a jar.
2
SPEAKER_00
Do you put it in a fridge or how does it work?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes, in the fridge.
2
SPEAKER_00
You set it in the fridge.
2
SPEAKER_00
That's all you do?
2
SPEAKER_01
That's all you do.
2
SPEAKER_00
 You mix it in and then you put it in there.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes, so the chia seeds swell with the liquid.
2
SPEAKER_01
Kind of coagulates a little bit.
2
SPEAKER_01
Exactly, and they kind of make this pudding-type texture.
2
SPEAKER_00
That's all it is.
2
SPEAKER_00
There's no other process to it.
2
SPEAKER_00
You put it in the refrigerator, let it cool.
2
SPEAKER_01
Stir it up and just chill it overnight.
2
SPEAKER_00
For 24, 12 hours, 24 hours?
2
SPEAKER_01
Actually, the small ones set pretty fast.
2
SPEAKER_01
So you can sometimes do it in a few hours.
2
SPEAKER_01
So you can do it in the morning and eat it late in the day.
2
SPEAKER_01
What I tend to do is make it when I do my food prep day and make it for the week.
2
SPEAKER_00
 That sounds good, I'm gonna have to try that.
2
SPEAKER_00
I could do that and not mess it up, I feel like.
2
SPEAKER_00
Do you have the ratios in here?
2
SPEAKER_01
You do?
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay, perfect.
2
SPEAKER_01
And if not, it's also on my Instagram.
2
SPEAKER_00
That's amazing.
2
SPEAKER_00
This is your Brain on Food, an indispensable guide to the surprising foods that fight depression, PTSD, ADHD, anxiety, OCD, help with your sex drive, and so much more.
2
SPEAKER_00
This has been very inspiring.
2
SPEAKER_00
I have a couple final questions for you, but I wanna make sure people get the book.
2
SPEAKER_00
 If they can get it anywhere online, Amazon, your website.
2
SPEAKER_00
What is your website, by the way, where people can get more?
2
SPEAKER_01
Sure, my website is UmaNaiduMD.com and my Instagram is at D-R-U-M-A-N-A-I-D-O-O.
2
SPEAKER_01
We also put out tons of information there and I'm actually hosting my first virtual course in nutritional psychiatry early in 2022 for anyone who wants to learn more and dive deeper than the book.
2
SPEAKER_00
Wow, what will that cover?
2
SPEAKER_01
 That will cover beyond what's in the book.
2
SPEAKER_01
So we go through the basic tenets of the book, because people have individual questions, they want a deeper learning of the subject.
2
SPEAKER_01
And as you know, in any book, you can never cover all the topics.
2
SPEAKER_01
So we go into more topics, question and answer sessions, and hopefully it will deepen people's knowledge of the subject and their interest.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Dr. Uma, I really acknowledge you for the way you show up.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think researchers and people working in universities can stay stuck in the university or working with one-on-one clients, and there's nothing wrong with that, but by you taking this, simplifying it into a book, and now wanting to go beyond that, I think is really inspiring for so many people that are confused around what to eat, how to eat, how it affects their gut, how it affects their brain.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I really acknowledge you for
2
SPEAKER_00
 for showing up, for doing the work, for packaging this in a way that we can consume it and understand it so it doesn't seem so overwhelming, and for doing all the podcasts you do to get it out there, even if your diet's a little off here and there.
2
SPEAKER_00
But it's amazing, and so I really acknowledge you for your...
2
SPEAKER_00
 decades of research and training so that we can become better human beings.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's really inspiring.
2
SPEAKER_00
I have a question that I ask everyone at the end called three truths question.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I'd like you to imagine a hypothetical scenario.
2
SPEAKER_00
It's your last day on earth, many years away from now.
2
SPEAKER_00
You get to live as long as you want to live, but eventually you got to call it your last day.
2
SPEAKER_00
 And you've accomplished all of your dreams in life.
2
SPEAKER_00
You've accomplished everything.
2
SPEAKER_00
You've created the life of your dreams.
2
SPEAKER_00
You've spent time with the people you love.
2
SPEAKER_00
But for whatever reason, you've gotta take all of your work with you.
2
SPEAKER_00
Your message, your content, your books, videos, everything you've ever created, for whatever reason, it's gotta go somewhere else.
2
SPEAKER_00
So we don't have access to your information anymore.
2
SPEAKER_00
But you get to leave behind, on this last day, three lessons.
2
SPEAKER_00
 Three things, you know to be true about all the things you've learned in life that you would like to share with the world What would you say would be those three truths off the cuff obviously number one?
2
SPEAKER_01
Be kind to yourself Because without that honestly that can be able to help anyone else.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah the second is
2
SPEAKER_01
 you are what you eat, even though it's cliched and overly used and it's often misunderstood and never actually taken seriously.
2
SPEAKER_01
So you mentioned the sad diet and you know what I'm talking about.
2
SPEAKER_01
And the third is
2
SPEAKER_01
 spices of the magic in your kitchen cabinet that are gonna help your mental health.
2
SPEAKER_00
Really?
2
SPEAKER_00
I like it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Spices of the magic.
2
SPEAKER_00
Very cool.
2
SPEAKER_00
I'm excited for this.
2
SPEAKER_00
I want people to get the book.
2
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
2
SPEAKER_00
Is there anything else we can do to support you currently?
2
SPEAKER_01
 Well, thank you.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think, you know, helping me to bring this message forward in whatever way you can.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I thank you for sharing this podcast and inviting me, but people listening to it, you know, supporting the book, supporting the work, letting us know the burning questions that they have.
2
SPEAKER_01
 It's social media, I can't be a doctor, I can't answer medical questions, but if we hear from people, we'll put a post out on something.
2
SPEAKER_01
We'll add it as a segment to the course that I teach, that type of stuff.
2
SPEAKER_01
So that really helps me.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay, cool.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay, final question, Dr. Uma, what's your definition of greatness?
2
SPEAKER_01
Truly being yourself.
2
SPEAKER_01
 If you are able to reach that place within yourself to be confident to be yourself, I truly think that makes you the greatest that you can be on this earth.
2
SPEAKER_00
Thank you so much for listening.
2
SPEAKER_00
I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness.
2
SPEAKER_00
Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's show with all the important links.
2
SPEAKER_00
And also make sure to share this with a friend and subscribe over on Apple Podcasts as well.
2
SPEAKER_00
 I really love hearing feedback from you guys, so share a review over on Apple and let me know what part of this episode resonated with you the most.
2
SPEAKER_00
And if no one's told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.
2
SPEAKER_00
And now it's time to go out there and do something great.