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This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.
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Look at how fast, we re almost halfway through the year.
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Crazy, yeah.
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Are you proud of what you ve done in 2024 so far?
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I mean, you always want to do more, right?
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Life goes so fast, David.
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It s important to take a moment to celebrate your wins, make adjustments for the rest of the year.
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This is online.
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It s a great idea.
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Very convenient.
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I mean, there s so many things you can do here to be a better version of yourself.
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You can probably always sharpen it.
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Yeah, I mean, I had a therapist in Portland and I would commute and that was a pain.
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That s a long drive.
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I know it was 1300 miles one way, but you know, it s good therapist.
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But yeah, this one you can mix and match and your thoughts kind of control you and you want to master them.
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Aw, David.
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Aw.
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Do you ever notice how women, we re gonna talk about Bob Odenkirk, women have this gear, this empathetic gear of going, aw.
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You know, it goes up in the end, a man might see a puppy and go, aw.
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But a woman goes, aw.
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And that s the woman you want when you have erectile dysfunction.
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Aw.
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Yeah.
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That s all I got.
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Sometimes when it doesn t work, I go, what did you say?
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What did you say to it when I wasn t looking?
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You blame her.
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Yeah, of course.
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I go, well, you gotta give me a heads up, at least 48 to 72 hours.
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And then I ll start prepping things and I ll start coaching.
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There s medication.
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Well, that d be one of our sponsors, Cialis.
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They ll figure it out.
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Okay, let s get to Bob Odenkirk.
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Bob Odenkirk, so funny.
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We were there, he was a writer when I was there, when Dana was there, wrote in some of the hugest sketches.
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I mean, obviously, motivational speakers, the big monster,
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Arguably one of the best of all time.
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Brilliant writer.
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And very, he was, cause he was writing there and he wasn t really performing much.
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And then of course, later on he does, you know, he s better called Saul Brigabat.
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And now nobody, it becomes this movie star later in life, but he was very enthusiastic.
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He d be like, oh Dana, it s so funny.
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Yeah.
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Oh, and I wrote a movie with him called Tucson, which was a comedy Western for me and John Lovitz.
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John Lovitz was a Western sheriff and- Balderdash.
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Well, I was an innocent Irish guy coming to town to be the new sheriff and he was the mayor and he said, and he was on a hangman s noose and he s yelling at the crowd.
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And there s a sign, his campaign to be reelected was, if I don t clean up the town, you can hang me.
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So it was very Bob.
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Anyway, you can cut that part out.
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Bob s great.
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And we had a great time there talking to him.
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Also, yeah, he s done all this stuff and he s such a good laugher and he s very, he s a cheerleader.
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He really helps when you re writing.
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He helped me a lot with Hollywood Minute.
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And he s a great guy.
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I m excited.
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I m always excited to see him when I see him out.
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I always light up around a dude like that.
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He just, he s one of those, he does really cool stuff.
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Like the Bob and,
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David s Show was just very- Mr. Show?
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Mr. Show.
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Commonly known as?
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I saw it twice.
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I don t remember the name of it.
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The Show Show?
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I thought it was the Bob and David Show.
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That was more of a literal thing that it was literally their show.
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So I was halfway there, but Mr. Show was great.
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Very low budget, but so esoteric.
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That was huge before Breaking Bad.
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I mean, that was a huge, another feather in his cap.
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Do you have any feathers in your cap?
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There s so many feathers, I don t know how to count them.
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Oh, too many feathers.
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No, but then he was kind of struggling a little bit, his words, and then breaking bad and then better call Saul.
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So, and then now he s an action star.
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I think he s the new- Nobody is a movie we re talking about and nobody s really cool.
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Oh, sorry.
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And I saw it.
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Did you guys see it?
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I don t know how people get when you say nobody, but yeah.
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Nobody s really cool.
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And so he was great in that.
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So we will deep dive on our friend Bob Odenkirk.
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Is that Bob?
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Bob Odenklerk.
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How do you spell your name?
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O-K-E-N-D-O-R-F.
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O-K-E-N-D-O-R-F.
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O-K-E-N-D-O-R-F.
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O-K-E-N-D-O-R-F.
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O-K-E-N-D-O-R-F.
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O-K-E-N-D-O-R-F.
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O-K-E-N-D-O-R-F.
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O-K-E-N-D-O-R-F.
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O-K-E-N-D-O-R-F.
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O-K-E-N-D-O-R-F.
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O-K-E-N-D-O-R-F.
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O-K-E-N-D-O-R-F.
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O-K-E-N-D-O-R-
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Uh, no, uh, they called me, they called me Odie.
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Oh yeah.
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Odie.
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I think I called you Odie.
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It makes sense.
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Spudly, Spudly, Oldie.
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You know what, it took me weeks to come up with that, but I went over your name back and forth.
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You ran it by a couple seven year olds.
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I called him Captain Kirk back in the day.
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Oh, that s not bad.
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Captain Kirk.
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Because he was, he was Odenkirk.
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See?
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That s all we got.
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Thanks for coming on, Bob.
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I wasn t the captain of anything.
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You guys, I love your podcast.
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Thank you.
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I can t tell.
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Broadcasts are the place I go to to hang out with my friends now.
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That s why I did this, because I don t get to have dinner with friends.
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I m kind of an introverted person, and I stay inside a lot, so I m in my room right now.
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Even though you re broadcasting from the CNN headquarters?
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This is leftover from the Drew Barrymore show yesterday.
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And we thought, should we keep it?
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I go, Bob will smile like he is now, so I can get rid of it, but.
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What s the, you had Drew on?
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Yeah, and then we went on her show and she does a weekend update type segment.
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We were zoomed in and this was the background.
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So look how happy Bob is.
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He s really thinking.
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Do you have any questions for Drew, Bob?
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No.
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We have to do some housekeeping.
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Oh wait, I have a great beginning.
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Ready?
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Here we go.
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Robert John Odenkirk was born in Benren, Illinois to Barbara and John.
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Then you got SNL.
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Wikipedia alert.
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That s really all there is to it.
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That s really a big jump.
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Well, that s all that matters, right?
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A little birdie told me this morning.
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A little birdie.
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At a given point, he said, everybody knew Bob Odenkirk was the funniest guy in Chicago.
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Someone told me that today when I was doing my research.
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Wow.
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At some point in time, his initials are RS.
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Oh, geez.
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Robert.
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Robert.
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Robert thought that.
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Robert thought that, but I don t think anyone else thought that.
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Did Chicago vote on that?
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No, they didn t.
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It was common knowledge.
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No, they would have picked someone else.
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Yeah.
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Larry, Larry.
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Oh, what s his name?
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He s a stand up in Chicago.
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No, Larry Farley.
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Oh, shit.
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No, he s actually really funny.
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The cable guy comic who did zanies all the time.
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Oh, hmm.
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Oh.
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Doctor I should know Chicago guy and it never never left the Chicago Circuit, you know, who s really funny is a guy named Mike to me Also a Chicago who just stayed there.
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We had Will Durst.
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Yeah, we had San Francisco, you know, yeah Yeah, just they like it
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Yeah.
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Some people don t want to branch out.
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They just, they do well there.
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They make money there and they just stay.
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That s right.
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That s right.
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And it s okay.
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They get plenty of work.
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They get married and have kids and they, and they don t go crazy like the rest of us and their local stars.
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Right.
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They go on the top radio show.
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Anyway, Bob, how are you?
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How are you?
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This is what I would ask you if we were at a restaurant, I d say, Bob, how are you?
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Yeah.
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Um, just generalize.
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So good because I m talking to you guys.
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God, that s the best answer I ve ever gotten.
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Thank you.
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I really I really love that you asked me to do this and that I get to hang out with you because it s true.
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It s like I listen to podcasts to listen to my friends talk to hear their voices.
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And because we don t get to do anything either because we re working or covid fucked us up for two years or, you know, or, you know, just lives you get separated by
1
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having families and stuff and it s just a really wonderful thing to get to just hang out with people and I ve been listening a lot to the Gilbert Gottfried podcast which has been so entertaining even though I didn t know Gilbert very well but a lot of people I do know are on that.
1
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And he just was, yeah, you know, uh, Gilbert, you know, when I worked with the funny boys, do you remember that comedy team?
1
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Yes.
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Uh, Jim Valley and Jonathan Schmock, both funny on their own and they wrote together and performed.
1
SPEAKER_03
And so they were the guys that got me.
1
SPEAKER_03
In the improv, Louie got me in the comedy store and I didn t make it.
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I was 20.
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And the funny boys got me in the improv and I did make it.
1
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And I stayed on Jim Valli s couch.
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And then he goes, I m leaving for a week, but someone s going to stay here.
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And I go in and it s like, hello, it was Gilbert Gottfried in his underpants.
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And he just sat eating Cocoa Puffs.
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And I had a roommate for a week and I was like, who s this man?
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I didn t, you know, it s very weird to live with someone you don t know.
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And so I don t know him well like you, Bob, but I did get to spend a week just hearing him.
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Then I d see him out and about and he was so, you know, I just say what everyone else said.
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Very, very interesting brain.
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And, uh, it sounds like interesting guy.
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Very funny.
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Gilbert would share some certain sensibilities, Bob, you know, the way he deconstruct, I mean, his, his androdyne clay bit is bad.
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And they were just so funny.
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And he was just,
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Yeah, I mean, I certainly appreciated the hell out of him.
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You know, he was I only would see him around in New York, actually.
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And you probably did, too, at clubs.
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You know, when I did SNL, you guys probably don t know this, but I would go because you probably didn t even know I did some stand up once in a while.
1
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But I would do Sunday Night at the Improv, which is not it was kind of a sad club.
1
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But for me, for me, it was like I just get a couple laughs and it just was like,
1
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It made me feel so much better after my week of getting the shit kicked out of me.
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And just to even get a few laughs on that stage meant a lot to me.
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It charged me up for the week ahead.
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And so I would see him and Larry David and those guys around that club.
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It was interesting.
1
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Well, those are hard-earned laughs.
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I mean, when you re by yourself and you walk up and just get a couple of laughs, that means a lot.
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Yeah, yeah.
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But it gave me a little boost that I needed.
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And when stand-up is giving you a boost, you know you re in a hole.
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I remember going to that improv.
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That s true.
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Dana, this is stupid, but, and we ll get to Bob in about 40 minutes, but what I did is, I used to, I would come from Arizona, and they said, I was a stand-up, and my buddy said, he knows this guy, Gary Grant, that can book you gigs.
1
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So, I d fly the crummiest airline, I d stay at Columbia with my friend, I would take my suitcase with props, and I would get my New York coat, in quotes, which was my heavy, like,
1
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you know, like winter coat I would never wear in Arizona.
1
SPEAKER_03
It looked like a duster, it looked like young guns.
1
SPEAKER_03
So then I d walk to the subway, take the subway to 44th, walk to the improv, wait until they assigned me some comedian.
1
SPEAKER_03
I remember this guy was 36 and he had a Nova and I go, if I m still doing this at age 36, please kill me.
1
SPEAKER_03
Because I was 20.
1
SPEAKER_03
And then we drove to like BF Packies or somewhere in Jersey.
1
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This is how you did it.
1
SPEAKER_03
I d do a set, bomb, I would get maybe 60 bucks,
1
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come home, maybe spring for cab fare because it s too late and scary to do the subway, and do that for two weeks and I d clear 500.
1
SPEAKER_03
And it was great.
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But I got to see the improv.
1
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And I thought the improv, I d always meet at the improv was the point.
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But I, it was so, I always heard about it.
1
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And I go in there and the stage is like four inches high.
1
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It s like not that big of a deal.
1
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Not at all.
1
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The one in New York, yeah.
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You know what was interesting about that when I first went there was they had that wall of photographs when you came out of the showroom into the bar.
1
SPEAKER_01
And in those photographs were stuff from the 60s and 70s.
1
SPEAKER_01
And there s Andy Kaufman and there s, you know, probably Jerry Seinfeld s up there.
1
SPEAKER_01
But then there s a guy juggling and there s a singer.
1
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And I asked, I don t know, I don t think I asked Silver, who ran that club at the time, but I asked probably the bartender or somebody, what s with the singer?
1
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And what is this juggler doing?
1
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And they said, well, that s what the club used to be.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s what all clubs used to be, is specialty act, singer, or music, and then a comic.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then it became and then the stand up comedy boom hit.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it was like, everybody get the fuck out of here.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s just stand ups.
1
SPEAKER_03
It s just like Peter Potofsky.
1
SPEAKER_03
There was like guys that were juggler comedians, magic comedians, and they kept the comedy part is probably easier to get on stage.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know, I think it probably there s some value to it in that, you know, if it s just one comic after another, it s like,
1
SPEAKER_01
If there s just something between the comics that can kind of clean, clear the palette a little bit, it s kind of a, I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_01
To me, the issue I had, and I write about it in my book, which is why we re talking rights.
1
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Comedy, comedy, comedy, drama.
1
SPEAKER_02
I m halfway through it.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s great.
1
SPEAKER_02
Fascinating.
1
SPEAKER_01
I hope you like it, Dana.
1
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I just got to the comedy plus so far.
1
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I have my own lane of this life we ve shared together.
1
SPEAKER_02
And then where we intersected was so cool.
1
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I just have great memories of you.
1
SPEAKER_02
And we wrote a movie together, which you primarily wrote, but called Tucson.
1
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And we had a lot of fun.
1
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I remember Tucson.
1
SPEAKER_02
That still is a great, really funny script.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah, thanks dana.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think so too.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think it s a great scenario that you cooked up Which is that little guy in the west and irishmen?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah irishmen with good with his guns, but Just sweet as hell.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so the opposite of clint eastwood just the very polar opposite of a clint eastwood character
1
SPEAKER_02
and uh so um what was i saying just that yeah you remember the first scene i thought it must have been it s so you oh what well i think i come to town i m from ireland yeah and lovett s has got a hangman s noose around him and there s posters he was running for mayor and the posters said if i don t clean up the town you can hang me and then lovett s was the conniving oh hello and i was well i m good with my guns you know
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SPEAKER_01
so anyway but that was but um there was a joke in there dana that somebody else did in a movie very in the last few years it was one of the characters was named like clint eastwood yeah and there s some his name was clint eastwood and uh there was so much great stuff and he did that joke recently right yeah that s or john ham sometimes when john ham is in a show they call him john ham just as larry david is funny but yeah
1
SPEAKER_00
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SPEAKER_02
Should we go back to, and then make our way to SNL?
1
SPEAKER_02
I m sort of curious, because I didn t see it, but what was the stuff that got you?
1
SPEAKER_01
I talk a lot about the trauma of SNL.
1
SPEAKER_01
SNL is pretty easy to write about because it was so hard and difficult for me personally.
1
SPEAKER_01
But that s true for a lot of people, and the story s been told many times, but I just told my version of it.
1
SPEAKER_01
But it s such a crucible right of pressure and desire and and Discovering yourself and and it just leads to a lot of interior trauma and then that s something to write about whereas, you know when I got to the later parts of the book and I m writing about Breaking Bad where well, I mean there was a journey there and
1
SPEAKER_01
to become a better actor, but also the journey of the show.
2
SPEAKER_00
becoming famous but the show itself was a well-oiled machine with nothing but pros in every direction and nobody having any emotional issues just working really hard and supporting each other and pulling together yeah and and so there s not much to say we
2
SPEAKER_00
you know, isn t it great?
2
SPEAKER_00
The writers did a great job and then we all worked really hard and it turned out well and there s nothing to say.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s not like if someone has a good scene and everyone goes, that guy s the best one, he s the best one in that scene and then the rest of the day you feel like shit.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s different.
2
SPEAKER_02
And you know you re getting it day to day, I assume.
2
SPEAKER_02
When you re doing Better Call Saul, it s going to be great, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s a, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, especially over time as you, the more you do it and you get to know the, the values of the show, what s good about the show and you see it coming across in the writing and, and you know what you captured that day and think, well, that s going to play really well or be fun to watch.
2
SPEAKER_00
And, and,
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s just not this, it s, there s not as much to say, uh, as there is to say about Saturday night live where there s so many books and so many, and they re all fascinating.
2
SPEAKER_00
I love them all by the way.
2
SPEAKER_00
One of the reasons I wrote my book is I love to read showbiz memoirs.
2
SPEAKER_00
I just love them.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Uh, and, and usually when somebody gets into something that works and, or they re talking about their hit show,
2
SPEAKER_00
There s not much to say.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s all about the struggle and the failure and the loss and the, that s where there s juicy stories.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, Dana, when I got there, uh, Dana was, uh, Bob was there already when I got to the viewers.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Bob was there and, uh, Dana was there and I came in.
2
SPEAKER_01
And Bob is always, I saw Bob more than Dana just because Bob was a writer with me and we were in there all the time, but Bob s always sort of in a good mood, shockingly, when I look back, because it s hard to be in a good mood at that place, but always laughing, always took a second for me.
2
SPEAKER_01
So did Conan, but you guys at least would explain a little bit of what was going on because I was really a rube.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was a middle act.
2
SPEAKER_01
I didn t know how to write.
2
SPEAKER_01
I didn t know how to use a yellow pad.
2
SPEAKER_01
I had a square wooden desk and they just, Downey goes, here s your room, bye.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, I don t know what s going on.
2
SPEAKER_01
What am I doing?
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I would, everyone has so much to do on their own plate.
2
SPEAKER_01
You do, Bob, Dana does.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it s hard to take a second to tell someone, hey, because it s someone that not ultimately might take your job, but just one more person kind of in your way, in a weird way, and you have to put that aside for a second and be a human being.
2
SPEAKER_01
And you did that, it was very nice.
2
SPEAKER_01
And now whenever I see you at a party, if it s a showbiz thing, I don t see Dana out as much, unless we have dinner, but I run into Bob places, and then I just beeline over to him, because we always just start laughing within seconds.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that s fun to have, and we got through the craziness, and we re both sort of sane, I think.
2
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely, buddy.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s how I feel.
2
SPEAKER_00
I never told you this, but that party at Guy O s series where I met McCartney and got to sit with him for 15-20 minutes, as Naomi and I were walking in, my wife and I, I m dreading going to this party because I m
2
SPEAKER_00
you know 59 or at the time 54 or whatever and thinking fuck it i don t i don t want to go out anymore at all ever and uh and i m i m thinking it s just going to be intimidating there s going to be famous people here and i don t know what to say to them and i turn to naomi and i go you know what david spade will be here
2
SPEAKER_00
And buddy, we walk in the front door and we look down the hall and there you are.
2
SPEAKER_00
It fucking blew our minds.
2
SPEAKER_01
He s a man about town.
2
SPEAKER_01
There was one time I went to Guy s.
2
SPEAKER_01
I went to Guy s.
2
SPEAKER_01
I didn t even go there.
2
SPEAKER_01
I obviously don t go to the Oscars, but I didn t go to Vanity Fair or anything.
2
SPEAKER_01
I just went straight over to Guy s because Rock was over there.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I get there.
2
SPEAKER_01
And before you get in, there s a line for the bathroom.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I just stand in line for a second.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then McCartney comes behind me and then he has a little chitter chatter.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then I m floored and then Bono comes out.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I knew I was like, again, like you, I don t think anyone knows what to say to anyone.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I do a few jokes that, you know, sort of strike out and then we all kind of dart our eyes and then I drift away.
2
SPEAKER_02
Well, Bob, do you have something throughout, you know, Mr. Show or anything, if someone comes up to you in an airport or something, I assume like most celebrities, specific compliments are the most flattering rather than you re great.
2
SPEAKER_02
You know, because someone came up to me.
2
SPEAKER_02
I ll just couch it.
2
SPEAKER_02
They came up to me at an airport and they said, I love skinheads in Maine.
2
SPEAKER_02
The thing I did with Colbert on my show.
2
SPEAKER_02
And it s so specific.
2
SPEAKER_02
My friends share that laugh about it all the time.
2
SPEAKER_02
But you must have a hundred of those, especially with Mr. Show.
2
SPEAKER_02
So many quirky.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I ll tell you, I have.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I mean, we ve all gotten to do lots of cool stuff.
2
SPEAKER_00
Between the three of us.
2
SPEAKER_00
I ve just had this the variety in my career is sometimes strange in its intensity.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, because this movie nobody that I did this action movie that s like around the world a whole different audience that probably they ve never heard of Mr show.
2
SPEAKER_00
Some of them have seen Breaking Bad and they re just like a whole nother set of people.
2
SPEAKER_00
But you know, the strangest thing is I always do have to do the math when somebody comes up to me of like, I have no idea what you know me from, what you think I did that was great.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I ve had, the biggest surprise is how more than a few times a year, somebody will come up and go, you are so great on How I Met Your Mother.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, you re just the best.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s like, I was on the show six times.
2
SPEAKER_00
Do you have anything like that, David?
2
SPEAKER_00
Do you have anything?
2
SPEAKER_00
Probably.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I mean, there are little nuggets that I ve done that people, you know, I get Emperor s New Groove, and that s the only thing they know me from, because my voice.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then you get things that are like Light Sleeper, where I played one scene, and someone doesn t really know you at all, and they know you re famous or you re something, but that s the only thing in your whole life they saw.
2
SPEAKER_01
And they appreciate it, so I m happy.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it s true, I can sort of guess by who s coming up, I m guessing sort of what they know me from.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know what I mean?
2
SPEAKER_01
And you might be able to get a feel.
2
SPEAKER_01
If they just say, you re great, I go, yeah, well, now let s dig in.
2
SPEAKER_02
I find that if someone is funny or in one scene of a movie or one part of a show, if they catch me and really make me laugh or impress me, I m kind of like a fan from then on, even if it s just like a small cameo.
2
SPEAKER_02
But Bob, the interesting part of your story obviously is like we know where it sort of is, it went.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I m just wondering, when we go back to 87 to 91 and knowing you and your work ethic, you re smart, some funny, all that stuff, like how does that guy, what was the emotional, I mean, who was Bob in those years that was so tenacious and so talented that then you went to this?
2
SPEAKER_02
And then of course, nobody is, they re gonna make 10 of those.
2
SPEAKER_02
That was so great for that genre.
2
SPEAKER_02
I fucking love nobody.
2
SPEAKER_00
To reinvent that genre.
2
SPEAKER_00
Thanks.
2
SPEAKER_00
Listen, first of all, I got to tell you, when they finally greenlit that movie and I went to go make it, obviously, I m thinking probably we re going to fuck everything up and it ll be, but I also thought if it works, if it works.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Then the thing I m most excited about is my friends.
2
SPEAKER_02
yeah going what the yes i said it what it s like bob is doing this now and it s not a one-off they are that is too good it s like too fucking good
2
SPEAKER_01
I watch it and I go this better be exactly what I think it s gonna be and it was and it delivered and that fight I think it was on a bus or something.
2
SPEAKER_01
What the fuck?
2
SPEAKER_01
I couldn t even do I was like I m a bigger puss out of all of us and I couldn t even do the fake stunts for that because I m such a puss I d be like we can t even fake do it with you.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah
2
SPEAKER_01
It s because I go, I don t really need to get beaten up, but I can t lift my leg up and kick, and my muscle hurt, my clavicle, if I hold this too high.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I like that it was you, and you have to be in shape just to do a fight scene, a fake one.
2
SPEAKER_01
You got very fit for that, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
To pull punches, to do anything.
2
SPEAKER_00
I worked really hard because I knew I had a long way to go.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I, and I, and I, and listen, right from the start, I was like, look, if we re going to do this, it s not going to be ironic.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m not going to wink at the camera.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m not going to give myself an out.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m going to look, if I m going to look like an asshole, I m going to look like middle life crisis, loser.
2
SPEAKER_00
Pathetic like what happened to you guy?
2
SPEAKER_00
I m gonna do this thing all the way or not at all.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then if it works, it s amazing Yeah, and if it doesn t work, well who didn t who didn t think it wouldn t work.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, come on But I did when do you realize it worked?
2
SPEAKER_01
Um, at a test screening or at, uh, just rough dailies or as a certain point where you go, this is actually coming together.
2
SPEAKER_00
COVID really worked in our favor because we had a cut.
2
SPEAKER_00
It was good, but it felt kind of like an indie movie.
2
SPEAKER_00
Uh, it was a little slow, um, and small.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then this,
3
SPEAKER_02
Because of COVID, this editor, who s the second editor on the project, whose name is on it, because it should be, said, I got nothing to do.
3
SPEAKER_02
Give me your movie.
3
SPEAKER_02
Let me fuck with it.
3
SPEAKER_02
And two weeks later, this guy turned the movie back to us, and it was like, oh, wow.
3
SPEAKER_02
Okay, wait a second.
3
SPEAKER_02
And the interesting thing is,
3
SPEAKER_02
He added, he built the sequence that opens the film out of shit that was on the cutting room floor.
3
SPEAKER_02
Didn t not shot for the movie, just thrown away.
3
SPEAKER_02
What a worker and everything else in the movie.
3
SPEAKER_02
All he did was chop it a little bit, shift some of the, um, order a little bit, not much.
3
SPEAKER_02
All he, and it was a totally different movie, totally different experience and just work from the get go.
3
SPEAKER_01
Tighten and brighten.
3
SPEAKER_02
It was amazing what this guy did.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because you connected to the character, because it does work in the whole emotional arc.
3
SPEAKER_01
You really do feel, I feel sympathetic for your character.
3
SPEAKER_01
I want him to win.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, well, that s actually, honestly, that s one of the things I thought I could bring to that genre.
3
SPEAKER_01
Vulnerability.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, vulnerability genuine.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah that you bought.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, like cuz a lot of times, you know, you don t really they try to have it Mm-hmm, but they d force don t really buy it But you don t care if you re watching an action movie a lot of times you don t care.
3
SPEAKER_02
You re like so what I like this guy I like the scenario hit somebody.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it s fine.
3
SPEAKER_02
Go.
3
SPEAKER_02
Let s see the action.
3
SPEAKER_02
Let s have some fun with it but I thought is there something I could bring to this genre and I thought I
3
SPEAKER_02
You know, around the world, I m known from Better Call Saul.
3
SPEAKER_02
And that s a character who s getting his ass kicked in a lot of ways and emotionally getting his ass kicked.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I play him and there s a sort of a great degree of empathy that people have for that guy.
3
SPEAKER_02
And what the story they ve, Evan Schiff is the editor.
3
SPEAKER_02
Evan Schiff came on board and made that thing a beauty.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s important to give credit.
3
SPEAKER_00
I love it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
And, uh, well, if you re, if you re bullied a lot, Bob, like I was, and Dana was, and, uh, those movies are fucking, I love because it s what I could never do.
3
SPEAKER_00
And when you see like death wish with Charles Bronson, he s at least a guy that s not getting bullied every day because he s tough.
3
SPEAKER_00
But when you see a guy like you, I totally buy, I go, all right, Bob s a nice guy.
3
SPEAKER_00
He s out there trying to fucking get through the world like everybody.
3
SPEAKER_00
And people just always fuck.
3
SPEAKER_00
They do it to me all the time.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so,
3
SPEAKER_00
I know Chris Rock is doing the sequel, but anyway, um, but I feel like when you, when you, when you see you in that situation and I m like, please fucking screw these guys up.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like the equalizer or something.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right.
3
SPEAKER_02
Right.
3
SPEAKER_02
Right.
3
SPEAKER_02
And it s the fantasy wish fulfillment that I could deliver on because I could really be
3
SPEAKER_02
That first iteration of the guy and you really, really felt like, yeah, he really is.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s not just, you know, I don t know, Tom Cruise with glasses on or, you know, or a buttoned up shirt buttoned up to the collar, you know.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think you go into a bar, you go into someone and you say you want to see somebody they don t want you to and you don t back down at all on anything, which is I love.
3
SPEAKER_00
You just go, I think it s best if you, and you re like, this is the way I want to talk in all my whole life.
3
SPEAKER_00
I just want to say.
3
SPEAKER_00
Listen, here s what s gonna happen.
3
SPEAKER_00
I hit you, you hit the ground.
3
SPEAKER_00
I hit the next guy, he goes down.
3
SPEAKER_00
And the guy s like, what are you talking about?
3
SPEAKER_00
And you re like, just wait about 30 seconds, you ll see how this goes.
3
SPEAKER_02
I love that shit, I love it.
3
SPEAKER_02
So the fun of this, this idea, this thing I had, this secret I had inside me when I m training, which is like my friends, Dana Carvey, David Spade, all these guys, if I get to make this and it comes off, they re just not gonna,
3
SPEAKER_02
know where to turn.
3
SPEAKER_02
They re gonna have to go to the hospital and get an MRI.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, definitely was a little bit of an opening of an old-fashioned newspaper.
3
SPEAKER_01
Bob Odenkirk starring in action film.
3
SPEAKER_01
What the fuck?
3
SPEAKER_01
And the picture, the posters, like you kind of beat up, I think.
3
SPEAKER_01
That is a great poster.
3
SPEAKER_00
What s going on here?
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
Well, it was a great joy to make that happen and to have that come to life.
3
SPEAKER_02
But anyway,
3
SPEAKER_01
Can I ask you a personal question?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, go ahead.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, just for a second, because you re starring in this film and, you know, film and television have all overlapped now.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s like the best stuff s on television.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re starring in a film.
3
SPEAKER_01
So like when you re like in the 70s, whatever, what films woke you up to film hood or show business?
3
SPEAKER_01
Like what was a seminal film for you as a kid?
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, it could be for Ben Stiller.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was the Poseidon Adventure for
3
SPEAKER_01
For Bill Hader, it was taxi driver.
3
SPEAKER_01
Hanks was 2001.
3
SPEAKER_01
I can tell you, American graffiti.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay, Ron Howard, 1973, Harrison Ford.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, and you know,
3
SPEAKER_02
I d gone to films, you know, fun movies at the Cineplex, and they were just building Cineplexes at the time.
3
SPEAKER_02
But we had an old time movie theater in our small town of Naperville, Illinois, and I d seen a John Wayne film there on its first run.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s how old I am.
3
SPEAKER_02
Rio Lobo.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I thought it was the Cowboys.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I liked it.
3
SPEAKER_02
And it was great.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I loved going to movies when I could, but we didn t go to a lot of movies, but going to that little old theater where, you know, they showed just the latest thing from the studios for a week or two, right.
3
SPEAKER_02
And seeing American graffiti, man.
3
SPEAKER_02
That was a totally different vibe than everything I had seen in that theater or anywhere.
3
SPEAKER_02
It was a new wave of film in America.
3
SPEAKER_02
And it felt more real.
3
SPEAKER_02
It had a modern energy to it.
3
SPEAKER_02
And it s a very good film.
3
SPEAKER_00
George Lucas.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s really good.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s so interesting to see a movie that sort of changes the way you think and maybe it tilted you toward comedy, maybe not, but just that s the beauty of movies when they, you see a bunch that do nothing and you re just sort of killing time and then one just grabs you.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right.
3
SPEAKER_00
Nothing like it.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s what you want to do when you make movies.
3
SPEAKER_00
You go, I want one that people remember.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right, right.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s the funnest part.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that s the thing a movie can be that a TV show
3
SPEAKER_02
pretty much isn t, which is this kind of very core elemental connection that just gets you deep, deeply.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s like a, it s a fable and it s, and it really takes you on a ride.
3
SPEAKER_02
I think with TV, you re always, no matter how well it s done, you just aren t as close to those lead characters.
3
SPEAKER_02
You re still just watching the story.
3
SPEAKER_02
You can be totally wrapped in the story, but you re just not, I don t know, I feel like movies just kind of grab you and take you on that one ride and you feel close to those characters in a personal way.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I agree.
3
SPEAKER_00
It might be the fact that it s singular, you know, Bob, like it s just you go and this is a beginning, middle, end and you go, wow, and you want to see the whole thing again.
3
SPEAKER_00
And TV sometimes you go, if someone says, did you see the series?
3
SPEAKER_00
I m like, oh, what?
3
SPEAKER_00
And they re like, it s on episode four.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, you know, like season four, you go, I can t, but I don t have 200 hours.
3
SPEAKER_01
Go ahead, Bob.
3
SPEAKER_01
I just think the power of film more than ever now is turning off the cell phone and not being distracted because you re watching something with your wife, you re enjoying it, and then ring-a-ding-a-ding-a-ding.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, it s a problem.
3
SPEAKER_01
So the focus of a film.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, is really strong and really a powerful experience.
3
SPEAKER_02
Anyway, I still love TV and I love everything that we all get to do.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I really, I like moving around.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I certainly don t think I have a career, a future as a movie star.
3
SPEAKER_02
I will get to make a few more movies, but it s not important to me.
3
SPEAKER_02
It wasn t like the drive of my life.
3
SPEAKER_02
I was driven by comedy as my book
3
SPEAKER_02
really, really says, I mean, I m really trying to warn people with that title.
3
SPEAKER_02
I know a lot of people know me from Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad, but I want to say, yeah, I m going to talk about comedy in Chicago in 1980.
3
SPEAKER_02
85 and you re probably not going to give a shit about that.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re definitely have fans that don t know you from comedy at all.
3
SPEAKER_02
At all.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s rare for us for, you know, for comedians that you have a whole huge new crowd.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s, it s, yeah, it s true.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I, and I, I want to move around between these things because that s always been the most fun thing for me.
3
SPEAKER_02
And that s one of the
4
SPEAKER_00
One of the reasons I think I love sketch comedy so much is you re just jumping around from different ideas, different tones.
4
SPEAKER_00
Something s really broad, something s a little subtler.
4
SPEAKER_00
I like jumping around between all that stuff.
4
SPEAKER_03
How did you find yourself, because not everyone, people should read the book, but just quickly that journey from, I know Monty Python was a big, big thing.
4
SPEAKER_03
Wake up, call for you, and then your life in Chicago s Second City.
4
SPEAKER_03
But what was it about Monty Python that s not in the book?
4
SPEAKER_03
Even today, you feel like that is the one that you and your brother Bill just went, holy shit.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you know, I think, you know, there s a lot of comedy in the 70s that we all watched.
4
SPEAKER_00
It had kind of a, look, some of it was great, you know, for sure.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I loved Carol Burnett s show.
4
SPEAKER_00
Uh, the, the vibe with those people was like joining a party that was a very welcoming party.
4
SPEAKER_00
It wasn t like they were yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Friendly and sweet.
4
SPEAKER_00
And we sure needed that in my house.
4
SPEAKER_00
So I love that.
4
SPEAKER_00
But I think Python was.
4
SPEAKER_00
For me, the thing that spoke about how I looked at the world and it kind of put an arm around me and said,
4
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Yeah, the adults are crazy assholes.
4
SPEAKER_00
And don t worry, it s you re not the only one thinking this.
4
SPEAKER_00
And it s okay, you can laugh at it.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s what you can do.
4
SPEAKER_00
And, and I think it s because, you know, they re young guys, they were in their 20s, making that show.
4
SPEAKER_00
And they were very smart.
4
SPEAKER_00
And
4
SPEAKER_00
They re very silly, like extremely silly, but very smart.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that s, that s the, that s the tough combo to get right.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s the magic combination to me.
4
SPEAKER_00
And, uh, and I, I just, it just spoke to my, the way I needed to see the world to be really comforted.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, I mean, this is what all the things we do and the things that affect us on a deep level do.
4
SPEAKER_00
in whether it s a movie or a book or a TV show or some stand-up act, is it makes you feel less alone.
4
SPEAKER_00
You just get that feeling of, I m not the only one who sees this in the world.
4
SPEAKER_00
And when you re a kid and you re 10 or 11, at the time I was I think 11 when I first saw Python, that is a crucial, you re just about to become an adult.
4
SPEAKER_00
Probably really sensing and in my house.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean life was extremely unstable at that point because there s At that point five kids two more to come Wow two more to come how the fuck does that happen?
4
SPEAKER_00
When you know financially it s off the rails.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s no future There s no stability anywhere anywhere near you and like how
4
SPEAKER_00
And you just as a kid, you know, no one s including you in any of that shit.
4
SPEAKER_00
Your parents.
4
SPEAKER_02
I was Alec Baldwin.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, boy, I wish she was.
4
SPEAKER_00
I wish she was.
4
SPEAKER_03
Mine wasn t a picnic either.
4
SPEAKER_03
But we ve talked about this, I m sure, privately, but it was rough.
4
SPEAKER_03
And your sounds really intense.
4
SPEAKER_00
And yeah, but I mean, look, you know, it s not that special.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I try to express in the book.
4
SPEAKER_00
Look, I know my child is not special.
4
SPEAKER_00
It is a very typical 70s childhood.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, people were just starting to have the word alcoholism in their vocabulary.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, there was, you know, it was just coming to understand a lot of that.
4
SPEAKER_00
All of my dad s friends all ended up broke.
4
SPEAKER_00
bankrupt, divorced.
4
SPEAKER_00
Really?
4
SPEAKER_00
And yeah, he used to take us out.
4
SPEAKER_00
He said occasionally when he would hang out with us, he would take us to his office and we d go to lunch with these five guys and they d get fucking ripped at lunch.
4
SPEAKER_00
And and all of them car crashes.
4
SPEAKER_00
America playbook.
4
SPEAKER_00
It was like the playbook.
4
SPEAKER_00
Hey, you had your car crash.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m next.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m next.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, I remember my dad quiet getting in his car accident.
4
SPEAKER_00
And his was a good one.
4
SPEAKER_00
He went through the window.
4
SPEAKER_02
His car accident.
4
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He went through the window and landed like 15 feet outside the car.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I remember him looking in the mirror, picking glass out of his head, like even like a week later, he s still picking little pieces of glass out of his, out of his bald head.
4
SPEAKER_00
So you went in, but that was a seventies.
4
SPEAKER_02
That was a dad.
4
SPEAKER_02
I mean, my dad was a true excitement.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
But look, the bottom line is it wasn t special.
4
SPEAKER_00
It was just,
4
SPEAKER_00
where I was at when comedy came along and told me, yeah, he s nuts.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s crazy.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s okay.
4
SPEAKER_00
Just laugh at it.
4
SPEAKER_00
And, and, uh, and Steve Martin on SNL was also like a superpower rocket ship to like crazy town and the best comedy, the best mix of, you know, ample, you know, conceptualized,
4
SPEAKER_00
Uh, you know, like the fast drunk brothers, like that s fucking off the rails stuff, you know, wild and crazy guys, wild and crazy guys.
4
SPEAKER_00
I am.
4
SPEAKER_00
But they pull it off and it isn t.
4
SPEAKER_00
Look, there was a thing about the 70s humor that was kind of cute and palsy and wasn t didn t make me happy.
4
SPEAKER_00
The dangerous stuff is what made me happy.
4
SPEAKER_00
And and that s what came in, came around around.
4
SPEAKER_00
you know, this time for me.
4
SPEAKER_02
By the way, American Graffiti was my Life of Brian.
4
SPEAKER_02
I saw Life of Brian and I was like, what the fuck is it?
4
SPEAKER_02
I didn t know anything on Monty Python.
4
SPEAKER_02
I just went to a comedy and we snuck in because it was R-rated.
4
SPEAKER_02
And it really hit me like, what the fuck are these guys?
4
SPEAKER_02
It was nothing like I d seen.
4
SPEAKER_02
you know, I don t want to harp on it, but I just wanted to acknowledge that Monty Python stuff did hit me also.
4
SPEAKER_02
I mean, I saw Animal House.
4
SPEAKER_02
I saw all the stuff I m supposed to see and fucking loved.
4
SPEAKER_02
And then, um, that was just a little different move and smart, silly, of course, and just doing stuff we didn t do here.
4
SPEAKER_02
Oh yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
I had the same reaction.
4
SPEAKER_02
All of my friends loved it.
4
SPEAKER_02
And you, now, now Bob, I have to ask Bob if he wrote for Dennis because I didn t know that.
4
SPEAKER_02
I don t think I knew you wrote for Dennis Miller.
4
SPEAKER_02
Before SNL?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, before I got on as a writer, I would send jokes.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, I would send scripts to Robert.
4
SPEAKER_00
Here s what happened.
4
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
4
SPEAKER_00
I was doing different crazy shit in Chicago.
4
SPEAKER_00
Stand up, sketch shows, anything.
4
SPEAKER_00
And Robert Smigel, I d seen his work at this little theater that we all went to school at called the Players Workshop.
4
SPEAKER_00
And he wrote a show there that later became a hit show.
4
SPEAKER_00
They ran for like a year and a half and made tons of money.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so I saw that show in its early iterations, and it was already solid.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s such good writing and so strong.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s so like, it just works.
4
SPEAKER_00
I had a hit ratio of like 15%.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I didn t care, by the way, that was fine.
4
SPEAKER_00
And Smigel had a hit ratio of like 90%.
4
SPEAKER_02
And it was like, yeah, he was a big slugging person.
4
SPEAKER_00
Holy shit, man.
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t know where that comes from.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, Robert says,
4
SPEAKER_00
It s the Rupert Pupkin effect is what he calls his achievement as a young writer, where all these years I ve been pretending in my head that I was this writer and I ve been sort of writing stuff in my head like Rupert Pupkin in his basement.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then he said, if you notice on the show, in the movie, The King of Comedy, when he actually gets a chance, it actually works.
4
SPEAKER_00
He s actually pretty good.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
And it s like just from hundreds of hours of, you know, of doing it in front of the, you know, in front of the wall.
4
SPEAKER_00
And, and, and I hadn t done what Robert did, I think not even close to the hours he put in on really examining writing and sketch work and what a sketch is.
4
SPEAKER_00
And, and, but he had, I saw his work.
4
SPEAKER_00
I loved it.
4
SPEAKER_00
He saw me in this crazy show.
4
SPEAKER_00
It was off the rails, silly stuff, but I was doing characters and I was my, I mean, the only thing you could recommend about it was my commitment and my silliness.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it was super silly and he got that.
4
SPEAKER_00
I was willing to just go that far and, and thought it was cool.
4
SPEAKER_00
And we started writing a show together and then he got hired at SNL.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so here I am in Chicago.
4
SPEAKER_00
And he doesn t know anybody when he gets to SNL.
4
SPEAKER_00
So he s calling me up on a Monday and going, I have these two ideas calling me again on Tuesday, reading the script to me.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m going to do this joke.
4
SPEAKER_00
What about this?
4
SPEAKER_00
I m just pitching him jokes.
4
SPEAKER_00
And he had, he just has a partner, even though he s, you know, at SNL new to the job and he s got someone to call and work his stuff on with and work his stuff with on.
4
SPEAKER_00
And, uh,
4
SPEAKER_00
So I m sending stuff in he I guess he s sharing it with some
5
SPEAKER_01
other writers.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then I m sending jokes in for Dennis and Dennis is doing them.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, that, you know what that means.
5
SPEAKER_01
Waiting tables in Chicago.
5
SPEAKER_01
I remember my first joke.
5
SPEAKER_01
I remember delivering food to the table at Ed DeBevick s in Chicago.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I keep checking the screen because they have SNL on, you can t hear it.
5
SPEAKER_01
but it s on the TV and there s that picture of Bob Hope and there s my nasty joke, mean spirited joke, mean spirited from this fucking kid.
5
SPEAKER_01
Do you want to tell us what it is?
5
SPEAKER_01
The statute of limitations on respecting Bob Hope for his earlier work ran out today.
5
SPEAKER_02
And that s the Statue of Limitations.
5
SPEAKER_02
It s all the language and, you know, it s like a nicely, tightly written, short and tight.
5
SPEAKER_03
And it s something everyone s thinking.
5
SPEAKER_03
No one says out loud.
5
SPEAKER_01
No one says out loud.
5
SPEAKER_01
It did great, and Dennis does a couple of my jokes over the next year or two, and Smigel.
5
SPEAKER_01
Actually, there was one scene I wrote that got on.
5
SPEAKER_01
It was the Sideshow of the Stars.
5
SPEAKER_01
So, you know, they had Circus of the Stars, and this was Sideshow of the Stars.
5
SPEAKER_01
where they have, you know, I don t even remember the jokes, but somebody s got hair all over their body that you didn t know or something.
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, a sitcom actor.
5
SPEAKER_01
And Robert, of course, punched that way up.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I only got, that was the only sketch that I got on when I hadn t been a writer there yet.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then I had that meeting with Lauren that I detailed in the book and I kind of exaggerated, but the truth is Dana and David, I went into Lauren s office and I really did think this guy does not want his ass kissed.
5
SPEAKER_01
He s heard enough people, you know, praise him.
5
SPEAKER_01
He wants to, if he s going to hire somebody, he wants to hear somebody with a critical mind.
5
SPEAKER_01
Some moxie.
5
SPEAKER_01
I got to hear what you said.
5
SPEAKER_02
I m sure it s in the book.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, I mean, I just went like, yeah, I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_01
What do you think of the show?
5
SPEAKER_01
Do you like it?
5
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_03
I could fix it.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s been better.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s been better for sure.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I think the early years, you know, and what what what comedy do you like?
5
SPEAKER_01
What do you like?
5
SPEAKER_01
Monty Python, Monty Python.
5
SPEAKER_01
Now, that was great.
5
SPEAKER_01
And that was great because it was smart and silly and and they didn t have to, you know, they didn t they knew their lines.
5
SPEAKER_01
They were, you know, reading cue cards.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Fucking ripping the show.
5
SPEAKER_03
Well, thanks for coming in, Bob.
5
SPEAKER_01
I kind of think he s going to like this, you know.
5
SPEAKER_00
Talk about not reading a room, man.
5
SPEAKER_00
Holy shit.
5
SPEAKER_01
And the fact that he hired me is insane.
5
SPEAKER_01
The only thing I had in my favor was he doesn t really, I want to
5
SPEAKER_01
He doesn t have to examine that kind of hiring that closely.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, if a couple of writers want you to hire somebody, you re going to say, sure, go ahead.
5
SPEAKER_01
Give him a try.
5
SPEAKER_03
We can try.
5
SPEAKER_03
They think they re good because he doesn t.
5
SPEAKER_03
He s not.
5
SPEAKER_03
How can you tell in a meeting?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_03
But also, in fairness, I wasn t listening.
5
SPEAKER_01
The other thing I d say, David, is I mean, Lauren loves Python, too.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Friends with all of Lauren also.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, Lorne probably would say if you said, what s the best comedy show of the last 100 years?
5
SPEAKER_01
You go, oh, well, it s not my show.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s Monty Python, you know?
5
SPEAKER_01
And so the fact is, he probably kind of.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, the other thing is, he also knows what it s like to sit across from a very nervous young person who doesn t know what to say, is completely wildly intimidated.
5
SPEAKER_01
And he s just done that 10,000 times and probably kind of
5
SPEAKER_01
gave me a little break for that.
5
SPEAKER_03
Maybe.
5
SPEAKER_03
Sure.
5
SPEAKER_03
He s a, he s a, he s very funny also.
5
SPEAKER_03
And I don t know if that always comes across that we talk about him cause we joke, but he s very funny.
5
SPEAKER_03
He s very dry.
5
SPEAKER_03
And he, and when you can make Lauren laugh at read through, it s so fun when he cracks up.
5
SPEAKER_03
Sometimes he slaps the table and laughs and you re like, Oh my God, what a home run.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
I don t, I never did that, but
5
SPEAKER_03
Bob we Dana I don t know if you remember when I was having some troubles in the show and I think I would just credit Bob with Who the one in my picture in my head when I m joking about people magazine or just killing time of the day Bob is a great laugher by the way, which always helps disarm, you know make you feel better and sincere sort of came up with Hollywood minute and steered it with me and and
5
SPEAKER_03
Remember, Bob, we were thinking, like, maybe it could be a show.
5
SPEAKER_01
What did I do, David?
5
SPEAKER_01
What did I do to help you with that?
5
SPEAKER_01
I just said, what you do here back in the writer s room, you should just do that.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yes, it was something that simple, but it made me, and we were framing it, and I m like, could it be a show called Guess What?
5
SPEAKER_03
And I was like, guess what?
5
SPEAKER_03
You re an idiot.
5
SPEAKER_03
And then it turned into just a series of photos, which when you said that Bob Hope one, that was kind of like a simple way it s put.
5
SPEAKER_03
Do a joke, try to think of something people are thinking.
5
SPEAKER_03
Everyone s kissing ass to celebrities.
5
SPEAKER_03
And I was unknown, which helped, just innocent looking.
5
SPEAKER_03
That was part of it.
5
SPEAKER_03
That s why it took, I didn t want to do it as much later because I sort of turned into someone people knew and then it s, then it turns meaner and then it was just kind of fun to take someone s legs out for no reason.
5
SPEAKER_03
Like, Hey, this guy is famous.
5
SPEAKER_03
Fuck you.
5
SPEAKER_03
And you know, and then, and there was always a reason, like I didn t want to go up people more than once because you know, you get one freebie if they screw up and I didn t want it to be that mean.
5
SPEAKER_03
It was just for fun, but, but it was a big help.
5
SPEAKER_03
Just the fact that you encourage or even listen to me,
5
SPEAKER_03
in between we re eating Wally and Joseph s or whatever, it was nice.
5
SPEAKER_03
It sort of just got me thinking.
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, I love to hear somebody, you know, I ve helped a couple of young talent groups or people
5
SPEAKER_01
to find some way forward.
5
SPEAKER_01
And it s because I know what it s like to tread water and lose ground and be lost.
5
SPEAKER_01
And if you can give somebody a little cue that maybe gives them a shortcut or clarifies what they re doing already, it s a great feeling to be able to do that.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I guess I ve done that even more than I thought, but I like to do it.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, part of it is, you know,
5
SPEAKER_01
One of the ways that you can use your skills when you ve been at SNL for a few years as a writer, and by the time you were there, I d been there for three years, and I finally was feeling like I m starting to understand what the show needs.
5
SPEAKER_01
Because instead of what I wanted it to be,
5
SPEAKER_01
which was insane because it s never going to be Monty Python.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s not.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God.
5
SPEAKER_03
There s so much about the reality.
5
SPEAKER_03
What s the reality?
5
SPEAKER_03
How can you help?
5
SPEAKER_03
What s the show?
5
SPEAKER_01
It took me for years, years, but somewhere around my third year, my brain started to calm down and go, wait, it s not this other thing that you want it to be.
5
SPEAKER_01
It is a thing that is,
5
SPEAKER_01
Has all kinds of first of all it s so fucking hard to do you know whenever we talk about it and we critique the show and.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean the fucking thing just on the on the face of it is impossible sir it s an impossible thing it s absurd and the more i go back the more i go.
5
SPEAKER_01
When i go back and see the show being done i m like oh my god this is impossible.
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, when I was young, I never thought that.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh, my God.
5
SPEAKER_01
When I got hired there, I was like, come on, how come this isn t better?
5
SPEAKER_01
Come on, work, you guys.
5
SPEAKER_01
This is not hard.
5
SPEAKER_00
This is easy.
5
SPEAKER_00
This shouldn t be hard.
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, and it s like, once you ve produced a few things, you re like, you want me to do a show Saturday night with sets?
5
SPEAKER_03
You want sets?
5
SPEAKER_03
And how good all the departments are.
5
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, the departments are so fucking
5
SPEAKER_03
on it.
5
SPEAKER_01
They re so good.
5
SPEAKER_02
They re so practical.
5
SPEAKER_02
Anyway.
5
SPEAKER_02
Did you ever think during a long dress show, it s sometimes I thought maybe tonight s the night it won t, the show won t go on, they ll show a rerun or something.
5
SPEAKER_02
Sometimes it just seemed like.
5
SPEAKER_01
I never thought that.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I think it more now, but again, when I was there, Dana, when I started there, I had such, I don t know, you know, you guys know the people who start in this business, there s such a strange mix.
5
SPEAKER_01
of confidence, self-doubt, ego, self-hatred.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s the weirdest, like, how does it work?
5
SPEAKER_01
How does it work that you have a friend, you know, we all have a friend, literally walks around all day hating themselves, talking about how stupid and dumb they are, and then gets on stage and tells a crowd of strangers what they think.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s a madhouse.
6
SPEAKER_00
How does that work?
6
SPEAKER_00
Something s wrong here, because if you don t think you re worth anything, then you shouldn t be thinking, give me that mic.
6
SPEAKER_00
I need to tell everyone what I m doing.
6
SPEAKER_00
Give me that mic.
6
SPEAKER_00
I just always film.
6
SPEAKER_00
I need to lecture these people.
6
SPEAKER_01
Bob I always felt if I didn t kill I d be I d get fired I felt like I had to destroy and maybe I pushed a little too much at times until I got to Johnny Carson was the only sketch I did toward the end where I wasn t pushing but I just wanted to make the point that um are you still with us your screens frozen oh okay god you were just oh yeah is that it seemed like you were
6
SPEAKER_01
like if you told me you had a pretty good time in SNL wouldn t surprise you because seems like you were sort of around a lot like you d be in a room with conan or robert or here s an example i wanted the audience to hear franken and i are doing a george bush senior we re sitting around somewhere going hey i m doing the thing gotta do it gotta go and then and then it was uh we re trying to go i think al said in the less uh the lesson of vietnam
6
SPEAKER_01
and you would just eavesdrop or just walk by and you just went, stay out of Vietnam.
6
SPEAKER_01
And that killed on the show on Saturday.
6
SPEAKER_01
Lesson of Vietnam, stay out of Vietnam.
6
SPEAKER_01
Do you remember that moment, Bob?
6
SPEAKER_01
But I think you were around the show a lot.
6
SPEAKER_01
Grumpy Old Man was really your, you originated that.
6
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
6
SPEAKER_01
It seemed like you were around.
6
SPEAKER_00
You know, I, I, listen, if I try to think of the things I contributed to SNL and basically I say in my book,
6
SPEAKER_00
That I didn t help at all and I got paid and I learned so much about how to write a sketch and what a sketch is made of and I but and then I Gave nothing back nothing in return like Lauren Totally got the shit end of the stick with me but probably
6
SPEAKER_00
Those things may be added up to something.
6
SPEAKER_00
The little things that I was able to do because Robert included me in writing or, you know, anybody did.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I can think of some of them because they stick out because they were
6
SPEAKER_00
Um, it would meant a lot to me when I was able to help and, and say something that helped.
6
SPEAKER_00
I, I, I wanted it to work.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s the other thing.
6
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes I think I, when I talk about the show, it sounds like I hated the show or thought it was dumb and, and fuck this place.
6
SPEAKER_00
And it s not true.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s not true.
6
SPEAKER_00
I, I wanted nothing more than to be helpful and meaningful there.
6
SPEAKER_00
And, uh, it w it would have.
6
SPEAKER_00
meant so much to me to feel that way.
6
SPEAKER_00
But I, I just did my best.
6
SPEAKER_02
And, uh, you brought in like motivational speaker, which is one of the greats.
6
SPEAKER_02
I mean, that s just that alone.
6
SPEAKER_00
You could have fucking David, that was after I left that scene was true.
6
SPEAKER_00
That was the next, yeah, that, that they did that scene the year after I left.
6
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Now they gave me credit for it, of course, because I wrote it, I wrote it alone in my apartment in Chicago, but
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But that wasn t even, I had left.
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Van down by the river.
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Just that.
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Wow.
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Van down by the river as poetry.
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I mean, just the fact that it s one of the most, I mean, listen, I just was in the scene and I hear about it every day.
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So, uh, but I had nothing to do with it.
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I just was cast.
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Thank God, Lord Jesus.
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Well, you guys know that as proud as I am that I wrote it and I,
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supremely proud.
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It s a standout moment in my life.
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And SNL is, you know, Chris Farley is the reason freight trains.
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Yeah, just come on.
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I mean, that guy.
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I mean, I talk about him a lot in the book.
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And it s weird.
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And it s fun to talk to you guys right now, because I mentioned that Howard Stern on his podcast that, you know, it s strange to to write about
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somebody who I, I mean, David, you were very close to him.
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I was not.
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I mean, I, I was, I felt very close to him, but so did anyone who saw him perform.
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Or even hung out with him.
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Or met him.
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He s such a sweet.
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Yeah, he was so nice and look in the eye and just like shake your hand and be happy.
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And they felt like, oh, that s why he was so lovable.
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They re like, oh, this guy s my friend immediately.
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Yeah, Howard said, you know, I didn t really know him.
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And I said, but you did.
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You did.
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Because you saw him.
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Before him.
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Yeah, you saw him as a. That s basically what it was, yeah.
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And so.
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I felt a little strange about writing as much as I did, but it was pure honesty and he affected me and impacted me greatly as he did everyone who got to know him.
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So, you know, I mean, it s fun to talk about how I got to write that sketch and that it played so well on the show, but it s all Chris, you know.
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The show is always, the show is always performance.
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One of the things that probably bothered me was that SNL is always going to reward and celebrate a performance laugh over a construction story laugh.
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And as a writer, I m wanting those two to at least be equal, or if not, lean in my direction, where you go,
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Yeah, that performer who does says, well, whether he s all right, but the idea that s so well constructed.
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And that probably was Jack Handy, right?
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Jack Handy.
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Yeah.
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A Jack Handy sketch is a Jack Handy sketch.
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It is funny because Jack Handy is fucking genius.
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And it does it.
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You can put seven other actors in there if they re OK.
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Yeah.
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You re going to let your caveman lawyer.
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I mean, Phil was great, but the concept was just so Jack Handy.
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And Phil nailing it, but just he s nailing a great piece of writing or sketch that was written so well and Handy sketches, you know, like a fingerprint within a half a page at read-through You re like looking around going is this jack handy?
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Like it s immediately comes out of this of the gate.
6
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So Bob we know
6
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You have another appointment.
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So I just wanted to ask you about your health for a second How are you people say to me after that?
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I had my event They said how do you feel even a year later?
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Are you feeling?
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Okay, and I always go I either feel perfect or I m in the hospital So there s no way there s no like Bob s having a good day today.
6
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You re completely whole
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and energetic and healed, because the science is there just to make this go away, right?
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, absolutely.
6
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I m great.
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I m working out, doing the same workout I did when I did nobody, and I m back to it, and I feel great.
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I ve got good energy all day.
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It took a while, Dana.
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I had five weeks off after the part at
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attack.
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I had five weeks off.
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And then when I went back to work, they limited my hours to 12 hours a day.
6
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And that was actually, that was really, really squashed so quick.
6
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We just getting started here.
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Yeah.
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And, uh, and I needed that because I really got to about eight hours a day and I would just start to sit down in the closest chair.
6
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It takes it out of your stance and the drama of it, all of it makes you weak for a little while.
6
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So it took a couple more weeks or even a month and a half or two before I felt like I could do even the 12-hour day fine, but I m fine now.
6
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And I would just say that, you know, whatever.
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I knew that thing, I knew that the plaque was building up and I should have been on medicine.
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And anyway, I m gonna be okay now.
6
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And I got a lot of, a lot to think about after it happened and now.
6
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And I wanted to ask you because you ve also had a heart issue.
6
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Do you ever sometimes lay in bed and listen to your heart?
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I would say in the first year after all that, you know, any kind of little thing or skip a thing or whatever, it took me a while to let that go.
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But I m really aware of my heart.
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Like if it s beating rapidly, I m aware.
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um so yeah that that but you weren t before not not in the same way not in the same way but i love getting my heart rate up i love breaking a sweat i do everything the same i was just very very lucky and what i want to tell people with bob here is that
6
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You know, there are statins, there s medicines, and there s diagnostics, CT hard scans.
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There s ways to be ahead of this.
6
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You know, thank God Bob had who he had around him at that moment.
6
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But there are ways to prevent it.
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It s not a death sentence.
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It doesn t change anything.
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And it s the medicine and the technology has gotten so brilliant since the 90s.
6
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So I would just encourage people to get checked out if they have a family history.
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Right, Bob?
6
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Yeah, or even if they don t, Dana, I don t.
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Oh, you didn t.
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I don t have a family history.
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And and so if you re 50,
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And you re a man or woman, 50 years old, 55, just ask your doctor for some simple tests, LDL, that stuff.
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Get the simple test done.
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It ll tell you.
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And these medications are very mild.
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I mean, they re not gonna change anything about you.
7
SPEAKER_00
So just, you know, take the statin or whatever they recommend if you need it.
7
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And yeah, and I was very lucky.
7
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I was supremely lucky, you guys.
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Not only that, listen, I just learned this a few days ago.
7
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The AED device that Rosa Estrada used to jack me up and it took three runs.
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It took three tries.
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She had that in her car because she was trying to return it to somebody she borrowed it from.
7
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And she d been trying to return it for weeks and this guy was never home.
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But otherwise, there wouldn t have been one anywhere near.
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And so only because this guy didn t wasn t there to answer the door.
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that she had it in her trunk of her car and could go run and get it.
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You know, what s weird, Bob, is my brother Brad lives in Albuquerque.
7
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He s the guy I base Garth on.
7
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He had a massive heart attack 20 years ago.
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And two paramedics were part of the track club.
7
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And he just went lights out.
7
SPEAKER_01
Same kind of thing.
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15 minutes of all that.
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Start the heart.
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He s fine today.
7
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So and it was in Albuquerque, too.
7
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So I know two people in Albuquerque frequently had heart attacks where they should have had them.
7
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You don t want to have a heart attack alone.
7
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Well, there s two ways to look at it, David.
7
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It s either terrifying or it s exactly where you should go to have your heart attack.
7
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Albuquerque.
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Yes.
7
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Listen, I have a history of having an attitude.
7
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I would love to talk to you guys for five more hours.
7
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I love you, Bob.
7
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Thank you for coming, man.
7
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Thanks so much.
7
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Bob, it s been such a pleasure.
7
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You re right.
7
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We could go for five more hours.
7
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Peace out.
7
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All right.
7
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Miss you, buddy.
7
SPEAKER_01
Thanks.
7
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Miss you, too.
7
SPEAKER_01
See you.
7
SPEAKER_01
Take care.
7
SPEAKER_00
See you, pal.
7
SPEAKER_00
Bye-bye.
7
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Hey, what s up, flies?
7
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What s up, fleas?
7
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What s up, people that listen?
7
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We wanna hear from you and your dumb questions.
7
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Questions, ask us anything.
7
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Anything you want.
7
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You can email us at flyonthewallatcadence13.com.
7
SPEAKER_02
Steve Rusnack, guys, if you could star in a bio about anyone, who would it be?
7
SPEAKER_02
You guys are fantastic.
7
SPEAKER_02
Hmm, I guess I can t do- A bio movie?
7
SPEAKER_02
Judy Garland, someone already did that, Renee Zellweger.
7
SPEAKER_02
Who would I be good, who would you be good as?
7
SPEAKER_01
Probably the Life and Times of David Spade.
7
SPEAKER_02
Oh yeah, we could play each other.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_02
Because I don t think I could do- I think I could play- Anyone.
7
SPEAKER_01
I actually, if I think about it, I would love to put prosthetic makeup on and do a movie where I play Dwight D. Eisenhower.
7
SPEAKER_02
Riveting.
7
SPEAKER_02
Everyone s waiting for it.
7
SPEAKER_02
This is the week.
7
SPEAKER_01
I tested for the movie Amadeus.
7
SPEAKER_01
I was third in line for that movie.
7
SPEAKER_01
Amadeus playing Mozart.
7
SPEAKER_01
He s like a boy child.
7
SPEAKER_01
I can play a thousand things and you can t.
7
SPEAKER_02
Do you know I was I was in a movie called Light Sleeper.
7
SPEAKER_02
This doesn t answer the question at all.
7
SPEAKER_02
But who cares.
7
SPEAKER_02
And Paul Schrader who did Raging Bull Taxi Driver Unbelievable Rider was directing it.
7
SPEAKER_02
I went into audition and he goes, great audition.
7
SPEAKER_02
We re going to try to get Dana Carvey.
7
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And if we can t, we will hire you.
7
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And I said, very honest, I ll take it.
7
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And then they said, Dana doesn t want to fly to New York to do it.
7
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And I said, I will.
7
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Cause you had to pay for yourself too.
7
SPEAKER_02
And what was it?
7
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Light sleeper with Paul Schrader.
7
SPEAKER_02
They asked you and you were, you just got back from SNL and you got to want to fly right back.
7
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There s only one day shoot, so I did it.
7
SPEAKER_01
Well, they used to have a nickname, Kevin Klein, Kevin D. Klein, because he always said no.
7
SPEAKER_01
I think I was second in command.
7
SPEAKER_01
Here it is, it s this much money in Nova Scotia, you leave tonight.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that s- What?
7
SPEAKER_01
Because when you do standup and corporate standup or things, you re just like on call, almost like a firefighter.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you gotta leave in two hours.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s in Berlin.
7
SPEAKER_02
I know agents are always like, agents go, I d do it.
7
SPEAKER_02
I mean, and you go, well, yeah, you sit in your fluffy office with AC and I gotta go down and get in Southwest and connect through Houston.
7
SPEAKER_02
Anyway.
7
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I was offered a gig in Munich, you know, okay.
7
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Fly on the Wall has been a presentation of Cadence 13.
7
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Please listen, then rate, review, and follow all episodes.
7
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Executive produced by Dana Carvey and David Spade, Chris Corcoran of Cadence 13, and Charlie Finan of Brillstein Entertainment.
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Production and engineering led by Greg Holtzman, Richard Cook, Serena Regan, and Chris Basil of Cadence 13.