0
SPEAKER_01
I came to realize recently what great means, but I didn t know most of my life I was aiming for great, but I didn t know what that was.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I ve come to realize that great means it s a devotional kind of greatness.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s a gift to the universe.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s a gift to God.
0
SPEAKER_00
Welcome to the School of Greatness.
0
SPEAKER_00
My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur.
0
SPEAKER_00
And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness.
0
SPEAKER_00
Thanks for spending some time with me today.
0
SPEAKER_00
Now let the class begin.
0
SPEAKER_00
Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness.
0
SPEAKER_00
Very excited about our guest.
0
SPEAKER_00
We have the inspiring Rick Rubin in the house.
0
SPEAKER_00
Good to see you, sir, and thank you for being here.
0
SPEAKER_00
You have an incredible journey, incredible story, and you ve done some amazing things.
0
SPEAKER_00
You re a nine-time Grammy-winning producer, named one of Time Magazine s 100 Most Influential People in the World.
0
SPEAKER_00
You ve got a number one New York Times bestselling book, which has just taken over the world in a powerful way.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I ve got so many questions I want to ask you about this.
0
SPEAKER_00
But you ve also worked with some of the most influential artists of our generation, which is really cool just to sit and be with you to talk about some of this.
0
SPEAKER_00
Some of the people like Red Hot Chili Peppers, Johnny Cash, Jay-Z,
0
SPEAKER_00
Tom Petty, Anna Del Rey, so many Adele, The Chicks, Kanye West, Lady Gaga, so many incredible influential artists of our time.
0
SPEAKER_00
I watched part of your documentary series and I just am fascinated by the way you think and by the way you move throughout space and time.
0
SPEAKER_00
I love that you re an avid meditator and that you walk around barefoot pretty much every single day.
0
SPEAKER_00
I think you had to wear shoes here today just to enter the building, but otherwise,
0
SPEAKER_00
99% of your life is barefoot.
0
SPEAKER_00
And something that I feel like a lot of people struggle with is tapping into their creativity.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I think a lot of people are born with an artistic expression inside of them, but then it gets diminished over time.
0
SPEAKER_00
A lot of people, not everyone.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I m curious, do you feel like
0
SPEAKER_00
When have you felt like you ve been most insecure in your creative endeavors?
0
SPEAKER_00
Because you seem so confident, you have hit after hit, everything you touch turns into gold seemingly, but I m also assuming that not everything works out the way you envision.
0
SPEAKER_00
Do you ever feel insecure with your artistic expression or are you always confident?
0
SPEAKER_01
I m confident with artistic expression, um, because the, my only goal is to make something that I like, and I know that I can keep working on it until I like it.
0
SPEAKER_01
So in some ways there, there s no pressure because I m, the goal is to make the thing that I like.
0
SPEAKER_01
I know what I like.
0
SPEAKER_01
If I don t like it, I keep working and eventually we get to a place where we like it.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
Do you ever face the inner critic of, well, what if other people don t like this?
0
SPEAKER_01
No, I don t consider them at all.
0
SPEAKER_01
Really?
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
Something I say in the book is that the audience comes last and I believe that.
0
SPEAKER_01
I m not, um,
0
SPEAKER_01
I m not making it for them.
0
SPEAKER_01
I m making it for me.
0
SPEAKER_01
And it turns out that when you make something truly for yourself, you re doing the best thing you possibly can for the audience.
0
SPEAKER_01
So much of why, um, if you go to the movies, so many big movies, just not good.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s because they re.
0
SPEAKER_01
They re not being made by a person who cares about it.
0
SPEAKER_01
They re being made by people who are trying to make something that they think someone else is gonna like.
0
SPEAKER_01
And that s not how art works.
0
SPEAKER_01
Art doesn t, that s something else.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s not art, that s commerce.
0
SPEAKER_01
So if we re making art, we re making, it s almost like a diary entry.
0
SPEAKER_01
So could I be concerned that someone else might not like my diary entry?
0
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t make sense.
0
SPEAKER_01
It has nothing to do with them.
0
SPEAKER_01
My diary entry has nothing to do with anyone else.
0
SPEAKER_01
So everything we make as artists are essentially diary entries.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s interesting and it s also, most people never want the world to see their diary, right?
0
SPEAKER_00
It s like you kind of keep it closed off, you keep it to yourself, you almost feel embarrassed if someone found your diary, if it s really personal, intimate, you know, fears or concerns or hopes and dreams.
0
SPEAKER_00
So how does someone write or create something for themselves in their own personal diary, but also want to share it with the world and not allow the criticisms to affect them?
0
SPEAKER_01
That s where the courage of the artist comes in, which is, this is who I am.
0
SPEAKER_01
And in my case, I m less concerned with the result.
0
SPEAKER_01
So I think that s a lot of it.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s like, I m not making it.
0
SPEAKER_01
for someone else to get their reaction.
0
SPEAKER_01
I m making it to have my experience.
0
SPEAKER_01
And as soon as I decide to share it, in my mind, it s success because I care about it enough.
0
SPEAKER_01
I like it enough for other people to see it.
0
SPEAKER_01
If other people, they can like it or not, that s up to them.
0
SPEAKER_01
And that s, that s their thing.
0
SPEAKER_01
You know, that s about them.
0
SPEAKER_01
That s not about me.
0
SPEAKER_00
Why do you think so many people struggle with the opinions of others when they re sharing their art to the world?
0
SPEAKER_01
I think it s a natural human thought.
0
SPEAKER_01
I don t know if it was always the case.
0
SPEAKER_01
Because you don t have that at all.
0
SPEAKER_00
I don t have that at all.
0
SPEAKER_00
I don t have that at all.
0
SPEAKER_00
But it seems like 99% of people have that.
0
SPEAKER_00
It seems like it.
0
SPEAKER_00
Maybe I m wrong.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I think the best artists tend not to have that or find a way to turn it off.
0
SPEAKER_01
Really?
0
SPEAKER_01
And a big part of my job with artists is helping them turn it off.
0
SPEAKER_01
We re not thinking about singles.
0
SPEAKER_01
We re not thinking about chart position.
0
SPEAKER_01
We re not thinking about anything, but making the most beautiful, honest, true thing we can.
0
SPEAKER_01
And when I say honest and true, it could be fiction.
0
SPEAKER_01
Do you know what I m saying?
0
SPEAKER_01
It s the thing that touches us.
0
SPEAKER_01
and excites us and surprises us, which is also interesting.
0
SPEAKER_01
The fact that we can make something that surprises us happens every day.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
You talk about magic a lot.
0
SPEAKER_00
You know, I ve seen that in your book, but also in the documentary series about, uh, you know, the work you ve done and how does someone tap into their own magic?
0
SPEAKER_00
when they have such a critical mind, self-criticism, but also family critics, managers, all that other stuff, criticizing what s good and what s not good.
0
SPEAKER_00
How do you coach someone to actually eliminate or diminish decades of conditioning within a week or two to make their art?
0
SPEAKER_01
I would say it comes down to
0
SPEAKER_01
like a personal reaction to something.
0
SPEAKER_01
If I, if I gave you two different foods and I asked you to taste them, you wouldn t have a hard time telling me which one you liked.
0
SPEAKER_01
If you really liked one and didn t like the other.
0
SPEAKER_01
So if you had people around you saying, no, but this other one that you don t like, that s the good one that no one could convince you that the thing that tastes bad to you tastes good to you.
0
SPEAKER_01
So it s, it s a very simple, it s such a simple idea getting to what do I actually like?
0
SPEAKER_01
No second guessing.
0
SPEAKER_01
No,
0
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t go past, and it doesn t have to stand for anything.
0
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t have to represent you.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s just, this is the thing that tastes good to me.
0
SPEAKER_01
What do you think?
0
SPEAKER_01
That s our whole job is, this tastes good to me, what do you think?
0
SPEAKER_00
When an artist is, you mentioned commerce, and you mentioned art.
0
SPEAKER_00
When an artist is struggling financially, and they re like, I wanna make things that I enjoy that taste really good for me.
0
SPEAKER_00
But I ve been doing that for five, seven, 10 years, and it doesn t taste good for anyone else.
0
SPEAKER_00
How can I make a living around my art?
0
SPEAKER_00
Or should I not think about my art as making a living, but I should be thinking about commerce separate from the art?
0
SPEAKER_01
I think dividing them is a really healthy idea.
0
SPEAKER_01
And then having a job that supports you so that you can be free in your art is ultimately what s best for the art.
0
SPEAKER_01
Really?
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
Now you can get a job related.
0
SPEAKER_01
You can get a job in the industry you re interested in.
0
SPEAKER_01
You can get a job if you re a painter.
0
SPEAKER_01
You can get a job in a gallery.
0
SPEAKER_01
You can be around it.
0
SPEAKER_01
And then also when you do something like that, if you were to work in a recording studio, you may decide this is not for me.
0
SPEAKER_01
We don t really know.
0
SPEAKER_01
We have ideas of what we want to try, but then when you try them, sometimes yes, that works.
0
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes you don t.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, so many people get on a track when they re young.
1
SPEAKER_01
I have a cousin who went to school to become a dentist, and he was a dentist for years.
1
SPEAKER_01
And after 15 or 20 years, just like, I can t do this.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t want to do this.
1
SPEAKER_01
It was a wrong choice.
1
SPEAKER_01
So many people live an unhappy life sticking to a program from when they were younger.
1
SPEAKER_01
And we have to find, like, you are speaking to people now versus playing sports.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s a big change.
1
SPEAKER_01
But it seems like a really positive change for you.
1
SPEAKER_01
But it wasn t what you set out to do originally.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
You ve been doing this for how long now?
1
SPEAKER_00
Producing music, 40 years?
1
SPEAKER_00
Probably about 40 years.
1
SPEAKER_00
Roughly 40 years.
1
SPEAKER_01
Close to 40 years.
1
SPEAKER_00
Have there ever been a time where you felt like it was stagnant for you or you weren t creatively inspired or you felt like it was dull?
1
SPEAKER_00
It wasn t this awe or magic that you were wanting?
1
SPEAKER_01
It was, it s always magic.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s always exciting.
1
SPEAKER_01
Um, I can t say that every moment of every project has been that, but there are always these glimpses of wonder that come through the, through the creative process that are staggering.
1
SPEAKER_01
And, um, they re very addictive, you know, being in a room where something s not happening and all of a sudden it s happening and you don t know why, and you don t know what changed.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s a very exciting feeling.
1
SPEAKER_01
How often do you experience that feeling?
1
SPEAKER_01
All the time.
1
SPEAKER_01
Really?
1
SPEAKER_01
All the time.
1
SPEAKER_01
Now, when I say all the time, we may start a project that maybe doesn t happen for a few days, but then it starts happening.
1
SPEAKER_00
What is that moment and what is the feeling that you have and what is it that you notice either in your mind or in the environment that is shifting for that feeling to occur?
1
SPEAKER_01
It s an inner excitement.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s like a leaning forward.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s a curiosity of like, can we hear that again?
1
SPEAKER_01
What was that?
1
SPEAKER_01
What was that?
1
SPEAKER_01
I ve not heard that before.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s interesting to me.
1
SPEAKER_00
Really?
1
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_00
So after four decades of doing this, you still get surprised by hearing new things.
1
SPEAKER_00
All the time.
1
SPEAKER_00
Really?
1
SPEAKER_00
All the time.
1
SPEAKER_00
Why does this work with this?
1
SPEAKER_01
Who knows?
1
SPEAKER_01
And if I were to tell you the idea, or if someone were to tell me the idea, I would listen to their words and think, that s a terrible idea.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then we try it, and it s remarkable.
1
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
1
SPEAKER_00
Can you give me an example of something that stands out for you?
1
SPEAKER_00
From maybe a well-known artist that people know about, or maybe someone completely unknown?
1
SPEAKER_01
I can say something happened the other day where we recorded a song in a particular way with a particular instrument, and it sounded really beautiful.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then the artist said, well, let s try it.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m imagining it.
1
SPEAKER_01
And they described something so different.
1
SPEAKER_01
In the description, it sounded terrible.
1
SPEAKER_01
The way they explained it.
1
SPEAKER_01
The way they explained it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Or the references.
1
SPEAKER_01
They gave me references of, well, if we do it like this band with this kind of a beat.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I tried to imagine the same song that we just recorded this different way, that way.
1
SPEAKER_01
And in my imagination, it did not sound good.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then I said, let s try it.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then they played it.
1
SPEAKER_01
And at first, it didn t sound good.
1
SPEAKER_01
But very quickly, it got great.
1
SPEAKER_01
And there s no way to know.
1
SPEAKER_01
There s no way to know.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s a big part of it is I see artists who get into arguments, like a band who gets into an argument.
1
SPEAKER_01
Let s do it this way.
1
SPEAKER_01
No, let s do it this way.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I ll always say, well, let s just play it both ways and listen, see.
1
SPEAKER_01
Let s see.
1
SPEAKER_01
Let s see what actually happens.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
And that might spark something completely new.
1
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_00
They both might suck.
1
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
1
SPEAKER_00
Let s try another one.
1
SPEAKER_01
Or they both might be great.
1
SPEAKER_01
And sometimes when they re both great, it s like, oh, maybe this is better for the chorus than this other thing actually can work as a bridge.
1
SPEAKER_01
We weren t even looking for a bridge.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s fascinating.
1
SPEAKER_00
documentary series about you and your facility and kind of your life.
1
SPEAKER_00
The Shangri-La.
1
SPEAKER_00
Shangri-La.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Powerful.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m not all the way through it.
1
SPEAKER_00
I ve done the first episode and a half.
1
SPEAKER_00
Someone in the first episode says, Rick helps people be the best version of you.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I m curious who helps you become the best version of yourself.
1
SPEAKER_01
Probably, I would say now my family, having a family, but also I have some, some really, um,
1
SPEAKER_01
hard-driving friends.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, you know, you met Laird Hamilton.
1
SPEAKER_01
Someone like, if you have someone like Laird in your life, being around people like him make you better at being a human being.
1
SPEAKER_01
What s the biggest thing you struggle with today?
1
SPEAKER_01
I think that there are a lot of fun things to try and finding time to do all of the things possible, the exciting things that I want to try.
1
SPEAKER_00
Because how do you pick and choose the projects you work on and the artists you work with?
1
SPEAKER_00
Is it a feeling?
1
SPEAKER_00
relationships you have with their managers?
1
SPEAKER_00
Is it, yeah, I want to try this new thing and let s bring them in.
1
SPEAKER_01
Is it?
1
SPEAKER_01
It usually starts with meeting the artist.
1
SPEAKER_01
And, um, just if there s a connection with the human and
1
SPEAKER_00
that s usually how it starts.
1
SPEAKER_00
How often does that happen then?
1
SPEAKER_00
Cause I m assuming a lot of people want to work with you.
1
SPEAKER_00
So is it, you know, every Monday people will, you know, managers will send their artists to you and they ll have an interview process with you for an hour or two and then you ll get a vibe and see if you want to work with them.
1
SPEAKER_00
Is there a waiting list?
1
SPEAKER_00
How does that work?
1
SPEAKER_01
It honestly doesn t happen that often because I m always in different parts of the world and I m not really part of the system.
1
SPEAKER_01
So if you were to go to, if you got signed to a record company and they showed you a list of all the producers to work with, I m not on anybody s list.
1
SPEAKER_01
Interesting.
1
SPEAKER_01
So someone would have to seek me out outside of the normal system to find me.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then it either would or wouldn t happen.
1
SPEAKER_01
Interesting.
1
SPEAKER_00
What do you see is the thing that holds people back the most from being their most creative and best self?
1
SPEAKER_01
I think it s being concerned with what other people think and a feeling of that the people who make great things are somehow special and that they re not special.
1
SPEAKER_01
And that s just not true.
1
SPEAKER_01
We re all, everyone has the capability to make great things and none of us are special.
1
SPEAKER_00
It seems like a lot of people, they re focused on what other people think, like you said, and it almost it blocks them into this kind of rut feeling, I guess, that they feel like they re stuck in a rut.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t know if you ve heard this before with a lot of your artists, but with.
1
SPEAKER_00
With me as a writer and an author, I ve heard so many people come to me and say, I want to write a book.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I ask them, how long have you had this idea that you wanted to write this book about this thing?
1
SPEAKER_00
And some people will say five, seven, 10 years, but they ve been worried about what people think or they feel creatively stuck in a rut.
1
SPEAKER_00
Do you ever feel stuck in a rut?
1
SPEAKER_00
And if so, how do you personally get out of that?
1
SPEAKER_01
I think taking action is a really great thing and not setting up barriers of entry like,
1
SPEAKER_01
I can imagine a musician saying, I can t play this song because I don t have the right guitar, or I don t have the right equipment to do it.
1
SPEAKER_01
And there are no barriers to entry.
1
SPEAKER_01
There s always a way.
1
SPEAKER_01
I come from a punk rock background.
1
SPEAKER_01
So in punk rock, it was a do-it-yourself mentality.
1
SPEAKER_01
And, um, you know, I started my first record company, not knowing, not knowing that was something you can do.
1
SPEAKER_01
It just really happened automatically.
1
SPEAKER_01
I wanted to start making records.
1
SPEAKER_01
I wanted people to hear them.
1
SPEAKER_01
I never knew that you could get signed to a label.
1
SPEAKER_01
I just thought, well, if you want to make a record, you make a record.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I made records and, you know, print up 500 copies of a seven inch single, for example.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I think there s always a way you don t have to wait for permission from someone else.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think that s a big part.
1
SPEAKER_01
People are waiting for permission.
1
SPEAKER_01
To actually make their art.
1
SPEAKER_01
To make their art.
1
SPEAKER_01
Someone has to say, you know, I ll hire you to do this or I ll publish your book if you write a book or set the stage to allow you to do it.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I don t think that s the way great things are made.
1
SPEAKER_00
When you did those, when you printed those first 500 singles,
1
SPEAKER_00
What was your dream or your vision?
1
SPEAKER_00
Was it, okay, now I m going to, how do I sell these?
1
SPEAKER_00
How am I going to give them away for free?
1
SPEAKER_00
What was the process for you?
1
SPEAKER_01
Combination of giving them away for free and selling enough to be able to make another one.
1
SPEAKER_01
That was always, any of the things I ve made, it s always been about sustainability.
1
SPEAKER_01
As long as I can make another one, it s a success.
1
SPEAKER_00
But at this point, you know, your sustainable pride for life, I m assuming with the success you ve had.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you don t have to make something to try to make your money back, you know, or get your time back or whatever.
1
SPEAKER_00
So what is the vision now?
1
SPEAKER_01
It s still, I still think in those.
2
SPEAKER_01
terms that I want, I feel like I want to make it where it s sustainable by itself.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s something that feels good about that, that you make something that can live on, not because of an endowment.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s interesting.
2
SPEAKER_00
I know you re, I don t know why, I don t know why that is, but that s just my, and maybe it s just the way I was brought up may just be, what does an artist need to be thinking and feeling at the same time to create great art?
2
SPEAKER_01
I would say thinking is the least part of it.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s much more about feeling and being true to themselves, whatever that is.
2
SPEAKER_01
Feeling their truth.
2
SPEAKER_00
And how do you know when an artist is being truthful in front of you?
2
SPEAKER_01
It s just a feeling.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s a feeling.
2
SPEAKER_00
Feel it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think something that you said was,
2
SPEAKER_00
I have no skillset.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s all intuitive.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s not what s in my head.
2
SPEAKER_00
It comes through me.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
So you re not analyzing or thinking about it, you re saying, huh, something doesn t feel right.
2
SPEAKER_00
It starts with a feeling always.
2
SPEAKER_01
It starts with a feeling, the analysis comes in later to try to understand either the feeling, if there s a reason.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like if I m just feeling something, I can experience it and be fine.
2
SPEAKER_01
If we have to act on the feeling, then it s like, okay, this feels like this.
2
SPEAKER_01
Is there a way to figure out why?
2
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes you can, sometimes you can t.
2
SPEAKER_01
And if you can figure out why, or if you think you know why, then you can say, hmm, could it be this, this, or this?
2
SPEAKER_01
Let s try those things, see what happens.
2
SPEAKER_00
Do you have a process when you re starting the first session with an artist after you ve been introduced and you re saying, okay, let s do this, we re gonna work together.
2
SPEAKER_00
Do you have a process where you set a personal intention that you don t tell them, but then also you tell them what the intention is for your time working together?
2
SPEAKER_01
I ll say when we re starting a new project.
2
SPEAKER_01
I always have anxiety really always Always because I don t know what s gonna happen.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, there s a real question mark when we walk in start and
2
SPEAKER_01
And I know that it could go a lot of different ways.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I don t have, I m not interested in having a playbook in advance.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m interested in seeing where it s gonna go.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it s scary because it could not go good.
2
SPEAKER_01
And sometimes there s an, you know, some artists have an expectation that I m gonna do something.
2
SPEAKER_01
I can t do anything, you know?
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s like, it s either gonna happen or it s not gonna happen, so.
2
SPEAKER_01
But then usually within, sometimes it s the first day, sometimes it s the third day, sometimes it s the second week, where something happens like, whoa, what was that?
2
SPEAKER_01
How did that happen?
2
SPEAKER_01
And then that might give us a clue.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s like, oh, this is what it wants to be.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that may change also.
2
SPEAKER_01
That may be the first inclination.
2
SPEAKER_01
It could start that way, and then it makes a left turn, turns into something completely different.
2
SPEAKER_01
The work itself tells us where it wants to go.
2
SPEAKER_01
So because we have, the reason it s so scary is because we have so little control over it.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s what s scary.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s no control.
2
SPEAKER_00
None.
2
SPEAKER_00
And if an artist has a big expectation, I need to put out a record that s gonna do well, I need to make money, I need to make the label happy, whatever it is.
2
SPEAKER_00
My fans need to love this.
2
SPEAKER_00
then that could feel like a lot of pressure.
2
SPEAKER_00
But do you allow that pressure to affect you?
2
SPEAKER_01
No, because I know it s not in the interest of the work.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s like, we re all on the same page.
2
SPEAKER_01
Even the people we re ignoring, the record companies, the managers, the agents, the people who are yelling, I need this, I need this now.
2
SPEAKER_01
Ultimately, for everyone involved, if the artist makes the best possible work that they can, everybody wins.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s just that no one involved in the process understands what it takes for that thing to happen.
2
SPEAKER_01
I had a conversation with a basketball player, a member of the Golden State Warriors, who told me there s all this pressure now to do a lot of stuff on social media.
2
SPEAKER_01
He said, and it s getting in the way of our playing.
2
SPEAKER_01
Interesting.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I said, well, if you tell the people who are asking you to do the social media stuff, don t you want us to win?
2
SPEAKER_01
So if you want us to win, let us focus on winning.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he said, they don t seem to care.
2
SPEAKER_01
They want us to do the social media stuff.
2
SPEAKER_01
They want us to distract ourselves
2
SPEAKER_01
from the work of the game.
2
SPEAKER_00
From the flow, from the practice, putting in the reps, showing up.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then I say, well, if then it s up to you, what s more important to please them or to win?
2
SPEAKER_00
Man, this is fascinating.
2
SPEAKER_00
What was the experience for you where the artist or the band came in?
2
SPEAKER_00
And it was the fastest, best flowing process you ve ever experienced where just like everything was lining up.
2
SPEAKER_00
Authenticity, truth, you know, raw realness was happening every day.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it was also, it was a great success for them personally to have the art be real and honest, but it also landed
2
SPEAKER_00
commercially and took off.
2
SPEAKER_01
The first thing that comes to mind would be Johnny Cash because he had gone, you know, 25 years of not having success.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he had been dropped from two labels.
2
SPEAKER_01
And when I signed him, he didn t even know why I was interested.
2
SPEAKER_01
That really was a conversation.
2
SPEAKER_01
He s like, why do you think working with you is going to be any different than working with anyone else?
2
SPEAKER_01
Like he had given up.
2
SPEAKER_01
And for him to get into it, we recorded in my living room, and he would just play me songs on an acoustic guitar.
2
SPEAKER_01
And there was an honesty in what was happening there.
2
SPEAKER_01
We didn t know that we were making a record at that time.
2
SPEAKER_01
We were just looking for songs.
2
SPEAKER_01
So he was playing me songs.
2
SPEAKER_01
It was almost like a way for us to musically meet each other.
2
SPEAKER_01
He would play me the songs he loved, either from childhood,
2
SPEAKER_01
or songs that he thinks he d like to sing, or a song he wrote.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it was just a very honest experience.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then we went into the studio, we picked some of those songs, we went through hundreds of songs.
2
SPEAKER_01
and then picked a handful to try to record.
2
SPEAKER_01
And when we went into the studio with the band, it didn t sound, it didn t have what the living room recordings had.
2
SPEAKER_01
There was some intimate honesty and we d never heard Johnny Cash that way before.
2
SPEAKER_01
So that led to the first album, which was a solo acoustic album.
2
SPEAKER_01
Again, we didn t set out to make a solo acoustic album, but it revealed itself as that s the most interesting thing to do.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that ended up being very successful and very successful with young people, which he had not experienced since the 1950s.
2
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_01
And after that, after the success of that album, we made five more albums together and he had confidence based on the experience of the first one, which he d expected nobody to care about really.
2
SPEAKER_01
took hold with people.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then on, I think it was on our fourth or fifth album, he did a cover of Hurt, the Nine Inch Nails song.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that ended up being probably the biggest, you know, maybe the biggest hit of his life, certainly of his later life.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that was a real revelation.
2
SPEAKER_00
How important is confidence for an artist in your mind to have?
2
SPEAKER_00
Because I ve been around some of the greatest athletes
2
SPEAKER_00
that are freaks of nature athletically that are gifted beyond anything physically who can do anything in practice, but then they lacked the confidence in a game and they looked like an average player.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Is that the same thing with artists, singers, guitar players, musicians, where they could be so gifted, but if there s a time when the pressure is on to record, then on the confidence, does that hold people back?
2
SPEAKER_00
Have you seen that?
2
SPEAKER_01
I ll say it s not as simple as that, because there s a vulnerability required for the artist.
2
SPEAKER_01
that if you re confident to the point that it disguises your vulnerability, that doesn t work.
2
SPEAKER_01
So it s like a dance between being wildly open and vulnerable and commitment to do whatever it takes to get your work through.
2
SPEAKER_01
That combination, which is a difficult combination.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s almost like, what I m hearing is, this is a really interesting point, it s almost like you just have to have courage to be vulnerable, which is not really confidence, it s more of like, if you re unwilling to be courageous with your vulnerability, you just won t be able to share your art.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s true.
3
SPEAKER_01
though, to get up in front of people and sing takes a certain amount of confidence.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s a hard thing to do.
3
SPEAKER_00
I couldn t imagine doing it.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s true.
3
SPEAKER_00
A friend of mine, Rachel Platten, she wrote a song called Fight Song that was really popular over the last six or seven years.
3
SPEAKER_00
But she started a family over the last five years, so she s got two young kids.
3
SPEAKER_00
And she just played at the Troubadour a couple nights ago.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I d seen her play in the past where she was uber confident, but she hadn t played in a while.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so she came out, and she was like, guys, I m actually really nervous.
3
SPEAKER_00
And this is my first time playing with a man with these new songs in a while, and I m revealing myself of these new songs.
3
SPEAKER_00
You could sense this vulnerability, which was actually beautiful.
3
SPEAKER_00
It was like, we re rooting for her.
3
SPEAKER_00
She messed up a few times, but she kept going and she s like, Hey, I m going to restart this and thank you guys.
3
SPEAKER_00
But it was like, wow.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it made moments of awe and magic happen.
3
SPEAKER_00
It was so cool.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it s not about perfection.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s the thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
Humanity breathes in the mistakes.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s what s not ordinary.
3
SPEAKER_01
If it was machine-like perfect, it s not so interesting.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s cookie cutter.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s all the same.
3
SPEAKER_01
So it s the edges, it s the frayed edges that make it interesting.
3
SPEAKER_00
Talk about transcendence, you talk about manifestation, and the universe.
3
SPEAKER_00
I know you re a big meditator.
3
SPEAKER_00
How long have you been meditating for?
3
SPEAKER_01
I learned when I was 14, and it s been a big part of my life the whole time.
3
SPEAKER_01
I can t say I ve done it continually, but I go through phases of five years on, two years off, or something might replace it that s another kind of a meditation.
3
SPEAKER_01
I may go from a TM sitting meditation to learning Tai Chi and that Tai Chi will fill the slot of my TM time.
3
SPEAKER_01
Right.
3
SPEAKER_00
Transcendental meditation.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I also read that you really never been into drugs or alcohol.
3
SPEAKER_00
Is that correct?
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve never been drunk or high in my life.
3
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
3
SPEAKER_00
And, um, you know, as an athlete playing football, college football and professional football, it was kind of shocking when people would hear that from me because the stereotype is, you know, the dumb jock that just drinks into the cake stands.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I learned early on, I was telling you before, that my brother went to prison when I was eight.
3
SPEAKER_00
And when you go to a prison, a visiting room, every single weekend, then you realize quickly you don t want to go there.
3
SPEAKER_00
And a lot of guys were in there for drugs or doing bad things.
3
SPEAKER_00
And for me, I was just like, oh, I don t even want to try some of this stuff because I don t know where this might lead.
3
SPEAKER_00
So let me just eliminate this from my life.
3
SPEAKER_00
Now, I ve had sips here and there, but I ve never been drunk.
3
SPEAKER_00
How has cleansing your mind of drugs and alcohol, of not really diving into it, supported you as an artist?
3
SPEAKER_00
And do you think drugs and alcohol can make artists be great?
3
SPEAKER_01
I can tell you that when I was going to high school, most of the kids that I knew would come home from school and get high.
3
SPEAKER_01
And the main reason was out of boredom and just trying to fill time.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I never, I always feel like there s not enough time.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like there s so much I want to learn.
3
SPEAKER_01
There s so much I want to read.
3
SPEAKER_01
There s so much I want to try that.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m not trying to turn off time.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m interested in something different.
3
SPEAKER_01
Now the idea of a hallucinatory experience sounds interesting to me, but I ve not done it.
3
SPEAKER_00
You ve never done psychedelics or anything like, I ve never done that either.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve always been, you know, I have a lot of friends that do it.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m sure you do as well.
3
SPEAKER_00
Uh, and,
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t know, for whatever reason, it s never excited me to try.
3
SPEAKER_01
Maybe in the future.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, same.
3
SPEAKER_01
I feel like someday I will probably do it.
3
SPEAKER_01
Right.
3
SPEAKER_01
Have you been drunk or high?
3
SPEAKER_01
I got drunk one time as part of a school assignment.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, well, what school is this?
3
SPEAKER_01
I went to Harvard for a summer between my junior and senior year of high school to start getting college credits.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I took a logic class and a design class, and they had a Harvard bartending class.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I thought, that s really funny.
3
SPEAKER_01
Even as someone who doesn t drink, the idea of having a degree in bartending from Harvard was funny.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I did it.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I thought of it like chemistry.
3
SPEAKER_01
The idea of mixing things is interesting.
3
SPEAKER_01
Interesting.
3
SPEAKER_01
So only one time.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, the final exam was you had to mix like 30 different drinks and then taste them to know what they taste like.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I got really drunk and it was a terrible experience.
3
SPEAKER_01
So you ve never been drunk since then?
3
SPEAKER_01
No.
3
SPEAKER_01
You ve been high or?
3
SPEAKER_01
No.
3
SPEAKER_01
I went on my 40th birthday in Kauai.
3
SPEAKER_01
I prayed all day and I did a ceremony where I smoked some marijuana, the only time in my life.
3
SPEAKER_01
And, um, and I would say it had almost no effect.
3
SPEAKER_00
So you might ve felt a little buzz or something, but nothing.
3
SPEAKER_01
I didn t feel a buzz.
3
SPEAKER_01
I would say that when I looked down into, uh, the landscape, there was more clarity between the foreground and background.
3
SPEAKER_01
That was one.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I remember we drove to dinner, and I drove, and driving felt more fun than usual, like playing video games.
3
SPEAKER_00
Sure, sure, sure.
3
SPEAKER_00
But you weren t really high or whatever.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s fascinating.
3
SPEAKER_00
So never really drunk or high, except for a social experiment or a one-time trial thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t think I ve met...
3
SPEAKER_00
many people who s never been drunk or high like me.
3
SPEAKER_00
So that s pretty interesting.
3
SPEAKER_01
Maybe that s the Pisces in us, you know, maybe, and you know, Pisces have a tendency to go the other way of everything.
3
SPEAKER_01
You are addictive people.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
Historically.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s why one of the things is I don t think if I would have gotten into alcohol or, or some type of drug, I think I would have become addicted.
3
SPEAKER_00
I would have been extreme with it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I ve tried to be extreme and more healthier ways.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think for myself,
3
SPEAKER_00
Now, the stereotype is or the generalization is that a lot of artists smoke weed or do drugs or experiment with alcohol or do these different things.
3
SPEAKER_00
And they talk, you know, maybe this is my own perception of it.
3
SPEAKER_00
They talk about it in their creative process.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was high when I did this and it gave me all these creative ideas.
3
SPEAKER_00
How do you view that of when artists are working with you?
3
SPEAKER_00
Are they smoking?
3
SPEAKER_00
Are they drinking?
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, when they re with you, or do you try to help them eliminate that to clear their mind?
3
SPEAKER_01
I want people to do what they want to do.
3
SPEAKER_01
I have no opinion.
3
SPEAKER_01
If I see someone doing something that s interfering with their work,
3
SPEAKER_01
I ll talk about it, but if it s not interfering with their work, that s their business.
3
SPEAKER_00
Have you ever seen an artist that you knew had a history of alcohol or smoking marijuana or some type of drug that when they worked with you, they weren t, they were clear of all drugs and substances and they were actually able to create something beautiful and magical.
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, I saw the Chili Peppers go from a band that were very dysfunctional on a lot of drugs, which I didn t really know.
3
SPEAKER_01
I just knew that when I met them, the feeling in the room was one I didn t want to be around.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then I met them years later and they had gotten clean.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I felt like it was a different group of people.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then we ended up making
3
SPEAKER_01
uh, blood sugar sex magic, which ended up being a very successful album for them.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then I produced most of their albums since when they were clean.
3
SPEAKER_00
And you know, that s interesting.
3
SPEAKER_00
Do you think that people overall make better work as artists when they are clear minded without substances?
3
SPEAKER_01
I think over the long term, that s probably the case, but there are many great artists who use, uh, something like marijuana as a,
3
SPEAKER_01
Some people have told me that they can hear music in a different way.
3
SPEAKER_01
Again, I haven t experienced it, so I can t say, but some people have told me that they hear music in a different way when they smoke and they can access their creativity.
3
SPEAKER_01
Um, so I think you have to do your own testing.
3
SPEAKER_00
Do you think it s better to make, I don t know about better is the right word, but do you think
3
SPEAKER_00
It s more impactful to make your art from a place of pain, anger, or sadness, or from a place of love, peace, and harmony.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t think it matters.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think it s true to your experience.
3
SPEAKER_01
So if you re feeling anger and sadness,
3
SPEAKER_01
a sad, angry song would probably be good.
3
SPEAKER_01
And if you re feeling love and peace, then you re in the right frequency to create that kind of song.
3
SPEAKER_01
You can also, sometimes if you re in a real pain, you can write a yearning song for love that can have
4
SPEAKER_00
be very deep.
4
SPEAKER_00
But one of the things about when you re in pain, um, you tap into a,
4
SPEAKER_00
You tap into things to, you re looking for, you re not satisfied in your condition, so you re yearning for change.
4
SPEAKER_00
And sometimes the energy of yearning for change can lead to really beautiful music.
4
SPEAKER_00
Right, wow.
4
SPEAKER_01
Is there someone that you re able to talk about or share that spoke and created from a place of yearning when they worked with you?
4
SPEAKER_01
that later said it was an extremely healing process for them, working with you for a few weeks on an album and expressing their diary in that way and allowed them to heal and have lightness on the other side.
4
SPEAKER_00
The most recent one was
4
SPEAKER_00
I made an album, the last album of Kesha and her, she had gone through very difficult experience and she told me that it was a very healing experience working on the album and different than any experience she d had previously where it was much more about commerce before.
4
SPEAKER_01
What s the most painful thing you ve been through that
4
SPEAKER_01
you ve had to heal and overcome?
4
SPEAKER_00
Probably the biggest one was, you know, I was overweight most of my life and I was not comfortable in my body and I always felt like an outsider and felt like it limited what I could do.
4
SPEAKER_01
Really?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
So I think probably weight was my biggest issue.
4
SPEAKER_00
What was the root behind that, you think?
4
SPEAKER_00
I think it was mostly bad information.
4
SPEAKER_00
Although my mom was obese, so I thought it s just genetic and I tried everything.
4
SPEAKER_00
I tried every type of diet, nothing worked.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then eventually I found the correct balance and I was a vegan for 23 years and I weighed 318 pounds as a vegan.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you can be a sick vegan or you can be.
4
SPEAKER_00
I was very sick as a vegan and I wasn t getting what I needed.
4
SPEAKER_00
Right.
4
SPEAKER_00
And it s a carb, it s basically a carbohydrate diet.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
And you can have all the sugar you want being a vegan, but that doesn t mean it s healthy for you as well.
4
SPEAKER_01
So it s like, um, what do you think was,
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, it sounded like you tried a lot of different things for 20 years, but it didn t work, but you found the right combination.
4
SPEAKER_01
But was there something you needed to mend or heal emotionally that allowed you to shift internally?
4
SPEAKER_01
It was just information.
4
SPEAKER_00
I was always willing to do it.
4
SPEAKER_00
I would say probably the biggest, maybe there is an aspect, which is...
4
SPEAKER_00
I thought I knew what was best.
4
SPEAKER_00
So there was a sense of turning over control to someone else.
4
SPEAKER_00
That was a surrender.
4
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
4
SPEAKER_00
I saw a doctor at UCLA who a friend of mine recommended I go to.
4
SPEAKER_00
I knew it wasn t going to work because I had done everything and nothing worked.
4
SPEAKER_00
And he
4
SPEAKER_00
put me on a particular diet, and I remember thinking, it sounds terrible, and it s not gonna work, but I ll do what you say.
4
SPEAKER_00
I had no belief, but I put my faith in him, or I gave up, but listened.
4
SPEAKER_00
And committed to the process.
4
SPEAKER_00
And committed to the process, and the weight fell off.
4
SPEAKER_00
Really?
4
SPEAKER_00
How long did it take?
4
SPEAKER_00
Was it like a six month, year process?
4
SPEAKER_00
14 months, and I lost 135 pounds.
4
SPEAKER_01
Man, that s awesome.
4
SPEAKER_01
Congrats on that.
4
SPEAKER_01
Thank you very much.
4
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
4
SPEAKER_01
And when was this?
4
SPEAKER_00
12 years ago, something like that.
4
SPEAKER_00
12 years ago.
4
SPEAKER_01
You look really healthy right now.
4
SPEAKER_01
That sun tan, you know, wherever you re at.
4
SPEAKER_00
I spend a lot of time in the sun.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m a sun worshiper.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
Now, do you feel like when you were able to, I guess, get that support, see the changes physically, did something transform inside of you?
4
SPEAKER_01
spiritually to be a better artist once that transformation started to happen?
4
SPEAKER_01
Or did you think you were still making great art, you know, when you were a hundred pounds overweight, would you say?
4
SPEAKER_00
I think we were making great art the whole time.
4
SPEAKER_00
The differences between losing weight and then meeting Laird and starting to train and get into my body because I was sedentary my whole life.
4
SPEAKER_00
Just sitting all day.
4
SPEAKER_00
Sitting all day or laying down all day.
4
SPEAKER_00
I liked laying down more than sitting.
4
SPEAKER_00
This is the longest I ve been in a chair since I ve been on an airplane.
4
SPEAKER_00
With Laird, when I showed up to Laird s the first time, I couldn t do one push-up.
4
SPEAKER_00
Come on.
4
SPEAKER_00
Swear to you, could not do one push-up.
4
SPEAKER_00
And with his support, I worked up to being able to do 100 consecutive push-ups, which was mind-blowing.
4
SPEAKER_00
Um, so what changed between the weight loss and meeting Laird was I now see anything as possible and that you could train for anything.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s nothing you can t do.
4
SPEAKER_00
You can t be the best in the world at something.
4
SPEAKER_00
but you can be a lot better than you are at anything you want to put the time into learning, whatever it is, you could do anything.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that s a great, inspiring feeling.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I feel like I bring that into the art where I already had great confidence, but even more so, I now know anything is possible at any time.
4
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
4
SPEAKER_00
Just if you have to do the work.
4
SPEAKER_01
So this was 12 years ago when this started to happen, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
And so, if I ve got my wrath right, are you 60 right now?
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I just turned 60.
4
SPEAKER_01
Just turned 60 in March, I just turned 40.
4
SPEAKER_01
If you could go back to your 40-year-old self, what would the number one piece of advice be for you at 40?
4
SPEAKER_01
If you can think about where you were then, who you were working with, the projects you were working on, the people in your life.
4
SPEAKER_01
Knowing what you went through the last 20 years,
4
SPEAKER_01
What would you tell yourself then?
4
SPEAKER_00
I would always say just have as much fun as possible because we, um, I, I m a workaholic by nature and I love making things and I love making good things and a great deal of time and effort goes into that.
4
SPEAKER_00
And, um, and I m hard on myself in that way and that I, I have high expectations.
4
SPEAKER_00
Um,
4
SPEAKER_00
And I think we can have fun too.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, of course, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
What brings you the most joy?
4
SPEAKER_00
I think probably quality time in nature with my family.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s probably the best.
4
SPEAKER_00
Being in a beautiful place, being close to my family, breathing fresh air, walking on the beach, laughing together, reading together, watching movies together, you know, watching wrestling.
4
SPEAKER_00
I like pro wrestling.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, of course.
4
SPEAKER_00
Pro wrestling with my son.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s fun.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s great.
4
SPEAKER_01
Are you more of a wrestling fan or UFC now?
4
SPEAKER_00
always been pro wrestling.
4
SPEAKER_00
UFC feels like they might hurt each other.
4
SPEAKER_00
They do hurt each other.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s why I like wrestling.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like, it s more, uh, everybody s on the same side for it to be the best show.
4
SPEAKER_01
They want it to be a win-win.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s a win-win.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
You talked about that in this documentary series about, you know, I love the video of you being like the ultimate promoter with the BC boys and a commercial, like just being this hype man promoter, like, you know,
4
SPEAKER_01
How much has, I guess, pro wrestling influenced you as an artist?
4
SPEAKER_00
A lot, a lot, because it s a world where you never really know what s true.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s a world of mystery.
4
SPEAKER_00
And great skill is involved in what they re doing.
4
SPEAKER_00
And there s a story, and it s a story sometimes of people who seem to hate each other.
4
SPEAKER_00
Do they hate each other?
4
SPEAKER_00
They might be best friends.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, it s like, we don t know, but sometimes they really do hate each other.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then the matches are different when they really ate each other, but you never know when it is.
4
SPEAKER_00
So there s a sense of, and I think it s more honest than any other form of any other sport or any other form of entertainment.
4
SPEAKER_00
See, it s funny, I say it s the only legitimate sport is pro wrestling, because it s the most like the world.
4
SPEAKER_00
In the world, we don t really know what s true.
4
SPEAKER_00
Everybody has a facade.
4
SPEAKER_00
People put on airs or a performance.
4
SPEAKER_00
A mask.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Or the politician talks, and we don t really know who they are.
4
SPEAKER_00
They say these things that are often written for them.
4
SPEAKER_00
We don t know.
4
SPEAKER_00
So there s this performative aspect of the world
4
SPEAKER_00
that wrestling, that s what the world s really like.
4
SPEAKER_00
We say that the wrestling is fake.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like the world is fake and wrestling is real.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s what it is.
4
SPEAKER_00
I wanted to go back into what you talked about with
5
SPEAKER_00
You know, you mentioned transcendence, and I think you mentioned, you know, the universe having your back when you asked for an answer with this, you know, particular song with System of a Down.
5
SPEAKER_00
What s your thoughts on manifesting and manifesting something you want and alchemizing it into the world?
5
SPEAKER_00
Do you believe in manifesting?
5
SPEAKER_00
Do you believe in a, you know, artists should be thinking in that way?
5
SPEAKER_00
Or what s your thoughts on it?
5
SPEAKER_01
I believe in it a million percent.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s something that I ve experienced before I knew what it was.
5
SPEAKER_01
So when I say it s like, I feel like it has to do with the purity of the intention behind what you re doing.
5
SPEAKER_01
if your intention is pure and you re doing it for the right reasons, it seems like things tend to work out.
5
SPEAKER_01
And that ends up being, um,
5
SPEAKER_01
a manifestation mindset, but it didn t start for me that way.
5
SPEAKER_01
It just was like, I really believe in what I m doing.
5
SPEAKER_01
I really care about it.
5
SPEAKER_01
I want it to be the best it could be for me, and I m excited to share it.
5
SPEAKER_01
And the results have shown me that you can manifest things, it happens.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I ll say when I do it, it s never based on the outcome.
5
SPEAKER_01
Ooh, what do you mean?
5
SPEAKER_01
I m never asking for a result.
5
SPEAKER_01
What are you asking for?
5
SPEAKER_01
I m asking for to rise to the occasion to make the best thing that I can, for the thing that I make to be great.
5
SPEAKER_01
Great is a vague word.
5
SPEAKER_01
I don t know what great means.
5
SPEAKER_01
I came to realize recently what great means, but I didn t know.
5
SPEAKER_01
Most of my life I was aiming for great, but I didn t know what that was.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I ve come to realize that great means it s a devotional, it s a devotional kind of greatness.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s a gift to the universe.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s a gift to God.
5
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
5
SPEAKER_01
If you re making a gift to God, there s no greater, you can t put more into it than that.
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, you can t, what about the single?
5
SPEAKER_01
What about what someone s gonna say?
5
SPEAKER_01
Who has anything to say if we re making a gift for God?
5
SPEAKER_01
You re putting all of your purest intention into this thing for the universe.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s where it s at.
5
SPEAKER_01
I didn t know that.
5
SPEAKER_01
I came to realize that recently.
5
SPEAKER_01
Again, my word was greatness.
5
SPEAKER_01
Greatness.
5
SPEAKER_01
That was the word of what I was shooting for.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I ve come to realize what it is.
5
SPEAKER_00
Wow, you have a whole, you know, kind of section about greatness and success in the creative act, a way of being, which is, which I love your explanation there.
5
SPEAKER_00
Um, that is fascinating.
5
SPEAKER_00
So greatness for you, what I m hearing you say is, is a, is a pure gift of yours to God.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_01
And it s a, it s a gift of yourself to God.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s like, this is the best I can do.
5
SPEAKER_01
This is my offering.
5
SPEAKER_01
This is what I have to offer.
5
SPEAKER_00
If you think of a formula for manifesting as an artist, what would that formula be?
5
SPEAKER_00
I don t think there s a formula.
5
SPEAKER_00
Is there an art to manifesting?
5
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_01
I don t, I think, um, it sounds like a shortcut and I don t think there are shortcuts.
5
SPEAKER_01
I think it s always a,
5
SPEAKER_01
a version of doing the work, of finding your way into what it is that the universe wants you to do, and then
5
SPEAKER_01
really dedicating yourself.
5
SPEAKER_00
How do you know what the universe wants you to do and when to do it?
5
SPEAKER_00
The right timing?
5
SPEAKER_00
Because you could be like, I have this idea for this thing.
5
SPEAKER_00
Maybe it s the right time now.
5
SPEAKER_00
Maybe it s five, 10 years away from now.
5
SPEAKER_00
How do we really tap into that knowing?
5
SPEAKER_01
I think it s situational.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I think, again, if you re tapped into the universe, it tells you.
5
SPEAKER_01
It directs you.
5
SPEAKER_01
An example, I may have three different ideas that I m excited about.
5
SPEAKER_01
and I kind of get them all going.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then one of them just seems to take off on its own.
5
SPEAKER_01
And one of them, no matter how hard I work on it, it never seems to come together.
5
SPEAKER_01
Can t find the right collaborators, some obstacles in the way.
5
SPEAKER_01
When that happens, I feel like it s the universe saying now s not the time.
5
SPEAKER_01
Interesting, because you know,
5
SPEAKER_00
I love this.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I also hear the other side of the, I guess the coin where, you know, I don t know if you know Ryan holiday, but the obstacle is the way is his kind of stoic philosophy of like when the obstacle is there and presents itself.
5
SPEAKER_00
And you also feel like this is something you want to do.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like you ve got to kind of go through that pain and you know, to overcome it.
5
SPEAKER_01
That is part of it.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m not saying to turn away from the obstacle, but I m saying when the obstacles become insurmountable consistently,
5
SPEAKER_01
And there s another path that s going smoothly.
5
SPEAKER_01
And you feel the same about both of them.
5
SPEAKER_01
Go for the effortless way.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, pay attention.
5
SPEAKER_01
See when is the universe giving you a push?
5
SPEAKER_01
When is the wind hitting your sails the right way?
5
SPEAKER_01
There s something to it.
5
SPEAKER_01
I would never suggest not fighting through the work.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s grueling no matter what.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s grueling no matter what.
5
SPEAKER_01
That said, sometimes it feels like now s not the time.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s like everything you throw at it gets deflected.
5
SPEAKER_00
But this other thing is guiding you.
5
SPEAKER_01
Taking on its own life.
5
SPEAKER_01
Earlier you asked about what I perceive to be a shortcut.
5
SPEAKER_01
And a shortcut is
5
SPEAKER_01
how little can I get away with doing?
5
SPEAKER_01
And I think that the real question is, how much more can I give to the thing I m making?
5
SPEAKER_01
What else can I give to it?
5
SPEAKER_01
And thinking in terms of how much more can we do, not how much less can we do.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s not about shortcuts.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s not about getting it done.
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, it s not about a four hour work week.
5
SPEAKER_01
I loved it.
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, I loved it, but that s not, it s like whatever it takes for it to be all it could be, commitment and total commitment and dedicating your life to making the best things you can, whatever it is.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s beautiful, man.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so you think that, as artists, we should be thinking about manifesting, but not in the terms of doing less, but putting the maximum into making it great?
5
SPEAKER_01
Doing anything that s within our power, it doesn t have to make sense.
5
SPEAKER_01
Nothing has to make sense.
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, it could be, when I wear these purple socks, I can write a better song.
5
SPEAKER_01
Great.
5
SPEAKER_01
Doesn t matter.
5
SPEAKER_01
Don t question it.
5
SPEAKER_01
Just do whatever works, do it.
5
SPEAKER_01
Is it really art if you re making money off of it?
5
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
5
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t matter.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s not about the outcome.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s what I m saying.
5
SPEAKER_01
If you don t make money or if you do make money, that has nothing to do with the art.
5
SPEAKER_01
Art is the art and then whatever happens after happens after.
5
SPEAKER_01
If you make something that you love, I know if I make something I love,
5
SPEAKER_01
If more people like it, that s only a good thing.
5
SPEAKER_01
Now, I wouldn t change a word of it for someone else to like it.
5
SPEAKER_01
Do you know what I m saying?
5
SPEAKER_01
It s like, I make the thing I love and then present it to the world.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then if the world likes it, great.
5
SPEAKER_01
And if more people like it than less, better.
5
SPEAKER_01
Why not?
5
SPEAKER_01
We re sharing something we love, something we think is beautiful.
5
SPEAKER_01
So the more people who embrace it, but again, I would never change it for anyone else because that s not what it s about.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s not about that.
5
SPEAKER_00
All right.
5
SPEAKER_00
With the artists you ve worked with that you knew before they were global successes or their art, their music, or, uh, you know, was known by many,
5
SPEAKER_00
What did you see became their biggest challenge once they became extremely successful?
5
SPEAKER_00
Because a lot of artists, I would think, want their art to be liked and listened to by people.
5
SPEAKER_00
They want to make a living and more people like it.
5
SPEAKER_00
Typically, that s a good thing, typically.
5
SPEAKER_00
But sometimes we see artists who have this incredible rise of success and then seem to struggle with whether whatever depression, anxiety, maybe depression,
6
SPEAKER_00
Can I do this again?
6
SPEAKER_00
Will I be able to have these many hits again?
6
SPEAKER_00
What is the biggest challenge you see with artists becoming successful?
6
SPEAKER_01
Probably the biggest one is Nobody prepares you for success and you may have a dream of what it s like and you may think the success is gonna
6
SPEAKER_01
fill some hole you have in your soul and then the success and you work your whole life for the success that s gonna fill the hole and finally you get the success and the hole s the same and it s
6
SPEAKER_01
it creates hopelessness.
6
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
6
SPEAKER_01
Because you always, you re working towards this goal that s gonna fix the problem, but it s the goal doesn t fix the problem.
6
SPEAKER_01
I would say, I can t say never, but I would say almost never fixes the problem.
6
SPEAKER_01
What fixes the problem for people?
6
SPEAKER_00
It s something else.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s something inside themselves.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s something inside themselves.
6
SPEAKER_00
So do you think success can almost hurt someone more than before they have it after they have it?
6
SPEAKER_01
It just, it depends on the person s temperament.
6
SPEAKER_01
You know, for some people being famous is the greatest thing is all they ever wanted.
6
SPEAKER_01
And for some people,
6
SPEAKER_01
They become famous and it s the worst nightmare.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s not what they wanted.
6
SPEAKER_01
They miss their privacy.
6
SPEAKER_01
They miss their anonymity they miss being able to go and do whatever they want and not be singled out or pointed to or Talk to or even if people are nice like it s a different it s different and no one teaches you how to do that or you want to you know, go do something with your family and then
6
SPEAKER_01
There are photographers there and it s very awkward.
6
SPEAKER_00
What advice do you have for people that want to be famous?
6
SPEAKER_00
You know, success is one thing, but fame is another thing and they don t always happen together.
6
SPEAKER_00
for someone that wants to be famous, what advice would you have for them?
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
6
SPEAKER_01
I would say, I would look at why that is.
6
SPEAKER_01
I would maybe see, you know, consider therapy.
6
Right.
6
SPEAKER_00
Have you ever done therapy yourself?
6
SPEAKER_01
I ve done, yeah, I ve done all kinds of therapy.
6
SPEAKER_01
What has been the biggest lesson you learned through therapy for you?
6
SPEAKER_01
I learned how to express my feelings clearly.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like when I, the first time I went to therapy, I didn t even know how to talk.
6
SPEAKER_01
I didn t know how I felt about anything.
6
SPEAKER_01
How old were you then?
6
SPEAKER_01
Maybe 26.
6
SPEAKER_01
So you learned how to express your feelings then?
6
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
6
SPEAKER_01
And to not only, yes, express them, but also to actually feel them in myself, to understand, not just feel like blocked off or frustrated or like what s beneath it, what s actually going on.
6
SPEAKER_00
And what is the biggest lessons that meditation or meditation practices has provided for you?
6
SPEAKER_01
It provides a quiet space where the chatter, you realize that your thoughts are not you and that left to your own devices, there ll be a lot of voices in your head just going all the time and they re not you.
6
SPEAKER_01
and they don t mean anything, and they re really repetitious, and they re not working in your best interest.
6
SPEAKER_01
So if your thoughts aren t you, then what are you?
6
SPEAKER_01
I suppose you are the unchanging part of yourself that s always there, probably from the time you re born till the time you die, and maybe before and after.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s what s really inside.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s not changeable.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s what you came with.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s not the thinking mind.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s almost being the observer of the thoughts.
6
SPEAKER_00
The one who sees the thoughts.
6
SPEAKER_00
That sounds right.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
Observing the thoughts.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s good.
6
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s what I was hearing you say.
6
SPEAKER_00
When do you feel the most loved, Rick?
6
SPEAKER_01
I would say in general, I feel loved.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s a good feeling.
6
SPEAKER_01
I feel spiritually connected.
6
SPEAKER_01
And that gives me a great feeling of peace.
6
SPEAKER_00
Where do you think you d be in your life
6
SPEAKER_00
weren t a meditator and where do you think you d be if you allowed yourself to play with drugs and alcohol?
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I can t really predict.
6
SPEAKER_01
I would say meditation, without meditation, I don t know who I would be.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s such a big part of who I am, informed so many, everything.
6
SPEAKER_01
My understanding of the world is based on learning to meditate when I was young, so I don t know who I would be without that.
6
SPEAKER_00
Do you think you would have as much internal harmony and peace and external success without meditation?
6
SPEAKER_01
No, certainly not internal peace.
6
SPEAKER_01
I don t know about success.
6
SPEAKER_00
I wanted to ask you a question about comparison.
6
SPEAKER_00
You mentioned the NBA basketball player needing to post more on social media based on what their team or the coaches, or maybe not the coaches, but maybe the general managers wanted them to do.
6
SPEAKER_00
With artists, I see a lot of people competing and being in comparison versus just sharing their truths in an authentic way.
6
SPEAKER_00
And sometimes on social media, people are vulnerable because it gets attention, and then they re over vulnerable, and then that becomes a game in itself.
6
SPEAKER_00
But in a world where everything is oversaturated seeming, and there is a lot of competition for attention,
6
SPEAKER_00
how can an artist stay true to their inner voice and not be in comparison, but be willing to collaborate and also see success in others and be okay with it?
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I think staying out of it, you know, like not participating in that game, it s someone else s game.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s someone else s game.
6
SPEAKER_01
I would suggest play your own game.
6
SPEAKER_01
I can remember having a conversation with a,
6
SPEAKER_01
one of the biggest artists in the world, who described an album that they were gonna make.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I had just seen them play in a stadium full of people screaming and crying.
6
SPEAKER_01
And it was not Paul McCartney.
6
SPEAKER_01
And the album that they were describing was one that none of those 70,000 people screaming and crying wanted to hear.
6
SPEAKER_01
It was clear to me.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I remember saying,
6
SPEAKER_01
That s not your hand.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like you play when you re playing poker.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s not you can t just play any cards.
6
SPEAKER_01
You play the you play your hand based on the cards you ve been dealt.
6
SPEAKER_01
So depending on the artist you are.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like, um.
6
SPEAKER_01
It d be like there was a time, I think, when Metallica felt like, we don t really want to be a heavy metal band.
6
SPEAKER_01
We want to be a pop band, because pop bands were what s popular.
6
SPEAKER_01
And we have reached a ceiling being a heavy metal band.
6
SPEAKER_01
That did not go well.
6
SPEAKER_01
That was a bad idea.
6
SPEAKER_01
They weren t playing their hand.
6
SPEAKER_01
They weren t embracing Metallica.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I think if you embrace your part, it s your best chance
6
SPEAKER_01
being true to yourself, not saying, oh, well, those people over there are getting popular doing this other thing.
6
SPEAKER_01
I don t really like it, but it s really working for them.
6
SPEAKER_01
Maybe I could try that.
6
SPEAKER_01
Recipe for disaster.
6
SPEAKER_01
So don t chase something that s not your hand.
6
SPEAKER_00
No.
6
SPEAKER_00
But it sounds like...
6
SPEAKER_00
correct me if I m wrong, you know, the example I m thinking of is like Lady Gaga came onto the scene doing, I guess, pop music and became very popular, but then said, Hey, I want to do this more kind of jazzy bluesy, like Tony Bennett thing.
6
SPEAKER_00
She was being true to herself.
6
SPEAKER_00
And that s what I want to do.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I don t care if anyone likes it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Perfect.
6
SPEAKER_00
But it s what I want to do with this season of my life.
6
SPEAKER_00
True to herself.
6
SPEAKER_00
And it may lose money.
6
SPEAKER_01
But she was not doing it because I think people will like this.
6
SPEAKER_00
Right.
6
SPEAKER_01
This is working over here.
6
SPEAKER_01
So I m going to try to catch their heat.
6
SPEAKER_01
She was not doing that.
6
SPEAKER_00
She probably knew people wouldn t like it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Only a small audience.
6
SPEAKER_01
She didn t care.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
She didn t care.
6
SPEAKER_01
She was true to herself.
6
SPEAKER_01
This is what she wanted to do.
6
SPEAKER_00
And she did it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
6
SPEAKER_00
Were you in touch with her at all during that season or?
6
SPEAKER_00
I can t remember if we talked about that.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m curious, but that s, I m curious if she s just said,
7
SPEAKER_01
hey, I m going to do this and this is my thing.
7
SPEAKER_00
And for sure, that s pretty cool.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
No, I love it when an artist does something unexpected, whether it works or not.
7
SPEAKER_01
You know, it s like it s they re being true to themselves.
7
SPEAKER_01
Right.
7
SPEAKER_01
They get to be a better artist doing that.
7
SPEAKER_00
Whereas the other example is someone, you know, whether it s Metallica or whoever is like chasing a bigger audience or something.
7
SPEAKER_00
Now, if that s true to them, that music, then cool.
7
SPEAKER_00
There s an audience there.
7
SPEAKER_00
Go for it.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
But it s also something about staying true to yourself in terms of, um,
7
SPEAKER_01
If you come up making a certain kind of music and you get popular making that music, a feeling of, well, this is all anybody wants from me.
7
SPEAKER_01
So even though I don t care about it anymore, I have to keep doing it.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s a disaster as well.
7
SPEAKER_01
Right.
7
SPEAKER_00
That doesn t work.
7
SPEAKER_00
Who has been the most musically gifted artist that you ve been able to work with?
7
SPEAKER_00
Or maybe a few people that you re just like, they were so musically like talented and gifted.
7
SPEAKER_00
It was just.
7
SPEAKER_00
There ve been a lot.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
There ve been a lot.
7
SPEAKER_01
I can say the first time I was in the studio with Carlos Santana and he started playing guitar,
7
SPEAKER_01
it felt like this is coming from another planet.
7
SPEAKER_01
Or John Frusciante, when he plays from the guitarist in the Red Hot Chili Peppers, when he plays guitar, it s a transcendent experience.
7
SPEAKER_01
Spiritual.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
And then there s a drummer named Chris Dave, who s the best drummer I ve ever heard.
7
SPEAKER_01
And no matter what he plays, anything he plays is the greatest thing you ve ever heard, the simplest thing.
7
SPEAKER_01
He can make anything interesting just the way he plays it.
7
SPEAKER_01
Not the parts, doesn t have to be complicated, doesn t have to be look at me, just the touch, the feel, the tone is miraculous.
7
SPEAKER_00
Something you said before is the only goal is to be the best version of ourselves.
7
SPEAKER_00
Is there anything blocking you from becoming the best version of yourself moving forward?
7
SPEAKER_01
I don t think so.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I wouldn t say I m there, but I m always striving, always.
7
SPEAKER_01
Anything I can do to get closer, I ll do.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you re willing to learn something new, you re willing to try something on, or change anything.
7
SPEAKER_00
What do you think is the best habits that an artist can have, that maybe you have individually, but also that you see in other artists?
7
SPEAKER_01
I would say dedication to the craft, whatever their craft is, dedicating themselves to it, taking it very seriously.
7
SPEAKER_01
and being free to play in it, you know, like taking it seriously at the time, at the time when it warrants being taken seriously and having fun and being free in a play way to allow the thing that s worthy of being taken seriously to appear.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m sorry, right.
7
SPEAKER_00
Taking it seriously and also allowing yourself to play in it as well.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
Well, the play always is where it starts.
7
SPEAKER_01
It starts in this playful way where nothing is serious and there are no stakes.
7
SPEAKER_01
And then through that, something appears.
7
SPEAKER_01
And then in order to get that into condition to share, there s a grueling
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, take that seriously and sometimes it s sometimes you do a grueling effort and then you realize all that thing that happened the first day That s the best version of it, but you don t know that until you ve maybe Banged your head against the wall for six months working on it And then you realize you know what that first five minutes was the best that was it you can t know that until you go past you know, you have to work past it to see
7
SPEAKER_01
This was the one.
7
SPEAKER_01
This is the best version.
7
SPEAKER_01
How often is it the first version is usually the best for you?
7
SPEAKER_01
I ll say the first version is often, if it s not the best, it s very instructive and holds a magic in it that is to be retained no matter what else changes.
7
SPEAKER_01
You know, a big part of it is just not screwing up what s good.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m messing it up.
7
SPEAKER_01
No, there are all these stories of, you know, the demos being better than the album.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s easy to not know why something is good.
7
SPEAKER_01
You know, you make a demo and you think, okay, now when I get the professional musicians to play it, it s going to be great.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s going to be that much better.
7
SPEAKER_01
Maybe yes, maybe no, we don t know.
7
SPEAKER_01
We never know.
7
SPEAKER_01
We never know what s going to happen when we do anything.
7
SPEAKER_01
So to stay neutral and to keep every iteration along the way and be willing to look back after you just spent months refining something to then say, you know what?
7
SPEAKER_01
It was better three months ago.
7
SPEAKER_01
Throw that all away.
7
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
7
SPEAKER_00
The Creative Act, A Way of Being.
7
SPEAKER_00
This is a powerful book.
7
SPEAKER_00
I think it s been on the New York Times bestseller list for 42 plus weeks in a row, I believe, right now.
7
SPEAKER_00
This has been a game changer for so many different creatives, artists, and also people that don t think they re artists who have been buying this and tapping into their creativity, allowing themselves to express themselves more fully, more openly, more freely, more honestly and vulnerably.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I want to recommend this to anyone watching or listening to get a copy or two and give one to a friend.
7
SPEAKER_00
Really think about who in your life do you know has great talent, great artistry, or untapped talent that they should be expressing that more and giving that gift to God and to the universe as you say so beautifully.
7
SPEAKER_00
Again, think about who in your life needs this book.
7
SPEAKER_00
There s so many great,
7
SPEAKER_00
The thing I love about it is it s, you know, it s a bigger book, but every chapter is short, you know?
7
SPEAKER_00
And for me, I like short bits of wisdom that I can just open up at any time and read a few paragraphs and I ve got something great.
7
SPEAKER_00
Open it randomly and read something.
7
SPEAKER_00
Let s see what comes up.
7
SPEAKER_00
This is the first thing here.
7
SPEAKER_00
I don t even have this earmarked, but I ve got a lot of it earmarked.
7
SPEAKER_00
This says, in the end,
7
SPEAKER_00
The sum total of of the essence of our individual works may serve as a reflection.
7
SPEAKER_00
The closer we get to the true essence of each work, the sooner they will somehow at some point in time provide clues as to our own.
7
SPEAKER_00
That was the first thing that opened up for me.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s cool.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s page 245, so make sure you guys check that out.
7
SPEAKER_00
But there s, I love the whole section on, you got sections on greatness, you got a success, you got about listening, you know, inspiration.
7
SPEAKER_00
You talk about inspiration, it appears in a moment.
7
SPEAKER_00
And what defines inspiration is the quality and quantity of the download.
7
SPEAKER_00
At a speed so instantaneous, it seems impossible to process.
7
SPEAKER_00
Inspiration is the rocket fuel powering our work.
7
SPEAKER_00
It is a universal conversation we yearn to be a part of.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I think that s really cool.
7
SPEAKER_00
Because so many of us are chasing inspiration, but a lot of times it comes to us, right?
7
SPEAKER_00
It comes.
7
SPEAKER_00
And it s almost like getting out of the way and allowing for it to come in.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s what I love in the docuseries that you re a part of Shangri-La.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s like you have an intentional energy of your environment.
7
SPEAKER_00
You create a space for it to come.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I think that s really cool.
7
SPEAKER_00
And a lot of people aren t
7
SPEAKER_00
I think thinking about their environment of spatial surroundings, their environment of people s surroundings, their environment of what they consume of music or visual content or what they re reading, they re not intentional with it as much as I think they could be which you re extremely intentional to allow for inspiration to come, isn t that right?
7
SPEAKER_01
All we are is made up of everything we take in.
7
SPEAKER_01
So the places we re in, the people we re around, the media we consume, that s all we are.
7
SPEAKER_01
really curate what comes in for your highest, um, for your highest good.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
And in the, uh, the Shangri-La, the, the docuseries, you know, in your recording studio and in your facility, it s all white, you know, there s no TVs, there s no clocks.
7
SPEAKER_00
The floor is white.
7
SPEAKER_00
The walls are white.
7
SPEAKER_00
You have this space.
7
SPEAKER_00
that it s kind of like this void.
7
SPEAKER_00
You know, when I think of meditation, I really try to think about being no one, no thing, nowhere, no time, so that inspiration can come to me as opposed to having the noise constantly distracting me or influencing me to think something.
7
SPEAKER_00
And so you create a white blank canvas for people to express and develop their art.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I think it s really beautiful.
7
SPEAKER_00
I mean, you guys paint the floors like after someone comes in and does their work, you repaint the floor so that it s not dirty from the last artists of the past.
7
SPEAKER_00
You create a blank canvas every time an artist comes in, which is just so cool to think about.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I love the intentionality behind how you allow for space to be evolved for people to draw inspiration.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s really, really cool.
7
SPEAKER_00
I want people to watch that docuseries called The Shangri-La, but also, again, get a copy of this book, The Creative Act, A Way of Being.
7
SPEAKER_00
I ve got three final questions for you, Rick.
7
SPEAKER_00
And again, I m so grateful for your time here and for sharing
8
SPEAKER_02
showing up and just being an inspiration to so many people and specifically in this interview right now.
8
SPEAKER_02
This is a question I ask everyone towards the end of our conversations.
8
SPEAKER_02
It s called the three truths.
8
SPEAKER_02
So it s a hypothetical question and scenario.
8
SPEAKER_02
Imagine you get to, you know, Laird and Gabby continue to keep you fit and healthy and you get to extend your life as long as you want to be.
8
SPEAKER_02
Um, but eventually it s the last day you can live as long as you want, but it s the last day for you in the future.
8
SPEAKER_02
And you get to create and learn and experience all the things you want to experience from now at 62 till that moment.
8
SPEAKER_02
Um, but for whatever reason, it s your last day and you have to take everything with you.
8
SPEAKER_02
Everything you ve created, everything you ve worked on, everything you ve written, everything you ve spoken.
8
SPEAKER_02
We don t have access to it in this world anymore.
8
SPEAKER_02
Hypothetical scenario.
8
SPEAKER_02
But you get to leave behind three lessons and this is all we would have to remember your information by.
8
SPEAKER_02
And I call it the three truths.
8
SPEAKER_02
What would be those three truths for you that you would leave behind?
8
SPEAKER_00
I think it might just be one.
8
SPEAKER_00
It might just be, be true to yourself.
8
SPEAKER_00
Know yourself as best as you can to be true to who you are and allow that person to evolve and change as the conditions change and to not be inflexible.
8
SPEAKER_00
I love that.
8
SPEAKER_02
I want to acknowledge you, Rick, for putting this out there.
8
SPEAKER_02
I heard you talk about being kind of like a grueling process and some challenges here and there, some friction, some obstacles to get it out there.
8
SPEAKER_02
It wasn t like this effortless thing.
8
SPEAKER_02
And I m assuming it might have been harder than an album, putting an album out there.
8
SPEAKER_02
I wanna acknowledge you for sharing your gift with the universe and with all of us, sharing your greatness with so many people because you have a lifetime of wisdom and information and lessons, and to put it together in this way so that we can understand it is really powerful.
8
SPEAKER_02
So I acknowledge you for creating this work of art, for coming on the show and talking so openly and honestly the way you have been, and I ve seen you on a lot of my friends  shows as well.
8
SPEAKER_02
And, um, for being an inspiration to so many people, uh, people value you, they appreciate you, they respect you.
8
SPEAKER_02
And, uh, I hope you feel the love from so many people.
8
SPEAKER_02
And I would just want to acknowledge you personally for that.
8
SPEAKER_02
This question, you, you kind of answered it already, but I m going to ask you again and see what comes up for you.
8
SPEAKER_02
Um, what is your definition of greatness?
8
SPEAKER_00
Greatness is what you make in a devotional act for a higher power beyond any worldly ideas of success.
8
SPEAKER_01
I hope today s episode inspired you on your journey towards greatness.
8
SPEAKER_01
Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a rundown of today s show with all the important links.
8
SPEAKER_01
And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me as well as ad free listening experience, make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel on apple podcast.
8
SPEAKER_01
If you enjoyed this, please share it with a friend over on social media or text a friend.
8
SPEAKER_01
Leave us a review over on Apple podcast and let me know what you learned over on our social media channels at Lewis Howes.
8
SPEAKER_01
I really love hearing the feedback from you and it helps us continue to make the show better.
8
SPEAKER_01
And if you want more inspiration from our world-class guests and content to learn how to improve the quality of your life, then make sure to sign up for the Greatness Newsletter and get it delivered right to your inbox over at greatness.com slash newsletter.
8
SPEAKER_01
And if no one has told you today, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.
8
SPEAKER_01
And now it s time to go out there and do something great.