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This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol.
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The joy they brought to the nation.
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You re free completely.
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No one is there to destroy you.
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The danger they endured.
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They said my head should be cut off.
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I m John Legend.
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Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Guess what, Will?
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What s that, Mango?
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I ve been trying to write a promo for our podcast, Part-Time Genius, but even though we ve done over 250 episodes, we don t really talk about murders or cults.
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I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese, so I feel like that makes us pretty edgy.
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We also solve mysteries like how Chinese is your Chinese food and how do dollar stores make money?
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And then, of course, can you game a dog show?
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So what you re saying is everyone should be listening.
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Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
0
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A new season of Bridgerton is here.
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And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
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I m your host, Gabby Collins.
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And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
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Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
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Then fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday.
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The word healthy to everyone is a great word.
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Everyone wants to be healthy, but for me, when someone says that I look healthy, it makes me want to spiral.
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Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health and wellness podcast in the world.
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Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to become happier, healthier, and more healed.
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And it s been an incredible journey this year so far.
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We ve had some phenomenal guests, so many different backgrounds, so many different walks of life.
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And today s guest is someone I m really excited to have here.
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I ve been looking forward to this interview for a long, long time.
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I m sitting down today with the one and only Nessa Barrett, a singer and songwriter who s been named Billboard s 21 Under 21 twice.
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as well as being featured on one s to watch list of 25 artists to watch in 2022.
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From being an emerging artist to being an established incredible icon today, Nessa has gone on to accumulate more than 1.4 billion global streams to date and her new EP is out now called Hell is a Teenage Girl.
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Please welcome to the show Nessa Barrett.
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Nessa, thank you for being here.
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Hello, thank you for having me.
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You have such a wonderful, warm, sweet energy.
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As soon as you walked in, you were just disarming.
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It was wonderful.
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I just, I really appreciate that.
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Thank you.
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Thank you so much.
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And I saw that it s going to be your birthday, your 21st birthday in like less than three weeks.
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Your new EP is titled Hell is a Teenage Girl.
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Yes.
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How does it feel to be out of hell?
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Oh my God, it feels amazing.
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Honestly, when I think about it, I feel like sometimes you re never fully away from hell and the bad moments, but I m getting there slowly.
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I feel like healing is like a really long journey, but yeah, I mean, getting out of the hell that I was in the past feels great.
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What do you think it is about teenage life?
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Because that statement, hell is a teenage girl, is so iconic and it s so powerful as well.
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And I think we underestimate how hard being a teenager is.
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Oh, 100%.
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And as we get older, I think we underestimate it even more.
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But when you re in that time, it can feel like everything matters, nothing matters.
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It s quite chaotic.
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Walk us through for you, what makes being a teenager so hard or what makes being young so difficult today?
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I know for me, my worst years were, I mean, the last 20 that I ve spent, and most of them were when I was a teenager.
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And I feel like when you re still developing and you don t really have a full sense of who you are yet, I mean, when you re a kid, you re taken, you know, and treated as a kid.
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And I feel like that s hard as well.
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Trying to grow up and find yourself and be your own while being influenced heavily by either your parents or those that are around you and older that are supposed to, you know, give you some guidance.
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I feel like sometimes it gets tricky and you get misunderstood.
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I don t know.
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I feel like it s not all sunshine and rainbows, you know, when you re young.
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Everyone likes to talk about childhood like it s this beautiful thing.
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But for me personally, it wasn t.
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Yeah, I think I can relate to in so many ways for myself.
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I think hell is a teenage boy too.
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And I remember being like teacher s pet until age 11.
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I was really well behaved.
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I was a good son, all the rest of it.
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And then like from 14 to 18, I just went completely off the rails and I was,
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messing around, trying things, experimenting, doing stuff that wouldn t make my parents proud.
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And it s really interesting because it just came out of this need to want to fit in, to be cool, to be relevant, to want people to respect me.
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And you end up doing things that are disrespectful to yourself for other people to like you.
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And it s crazy.
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You just mentioned now, though, that when I asked you just before we started filming, you said you actually ran away from home when you were 17.
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Yes.
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What made you do that?
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What did it take for that to happen?
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So I feel like I ve always had this big ambition and this big dream in my head of what I want to do as a career.
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I always dreamt about being in California.
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I dreamt about being a singer, a huge artist.
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And that wasn t something that was understood or at least, you know, seen as possible in the town that I came from and my family.
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And it was right as COVID hit.
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And I knew that I was either trapped and stuck there and forced to have to go to college and, you know, create a life that I knew wasn t for me, or I would just
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do it for myself.
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And, you know, if I didn t leave then, then I wouldn t be there like here where I am now.
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And so it was really weird, but yeah, I wasn t happy at home.
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I wasn t happy in New Jersey.
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And I felt in my heart that there was something that I had to do.
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And I booked a flight at like 1 a.m.
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that left for like 4 a.m.
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My parents knew that I was going to run away.
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And it was like this big chaos.
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I had like the cops come and it was like this whole thing.
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And so they stole and they took all of my suitcases, everything that I could use to leave.
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And so I found, I locked my door and I found like all of my old like school book bags and my soccer bags because I used to play soccer.
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And I stuffed all of my things in like these duffel bags and like school bags.
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And I m lugging around like, and I m small, I m like 17.
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four foot eleven, like lugging around these huge bags and I got an Uber and yeah, I got on the flight and I ve been here since.
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So that s been nearly four years now.
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That s insane.
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I mean, how did you as a 17 year old have the confidence and courage to go, no, I m going to go all in on this.
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I m going to, because that s, you know, I think a lot of young people today, a lot of people listening, they want to take risks.
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They want to try things out.
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They want to follow their passion.
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They want to pursue something that s a dream of theirs.
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But I think most of us get talked out of it or the doubt and the fear creeps in, in our head of what if I don t make it?
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What if it doesn t work out?
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what was it for you that allowed you to say, no, I m actually going to have the courage and the confidence at 17?
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I still am not the type of person and I never was to take a risk like that.
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I struggle with really bad anxiety.
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And I, as a kid, like I did everything that I was told, you know, I would never, I would follow the rules to a T and something like that was absolutely insane.
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And looking back on it now, I feel like there was something out of this world that kind of took
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a toll on me.
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It was a pretty, I don t even know how to explain it, but I just knew that I had to.
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And I was scared.
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I was terrified.
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I remember I had, there s no nonstop from Philly to LA at that time.
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And so I stopped somewhere
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And on my connecting flight, I was freaking out, having a panic attack.
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But yeah, I just kept going.
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But it was something that was very unlike me.
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And so I feel like, I don t know if it s my higher power or anything like that.
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And I just knew that that was something that I had to do.
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How did you have the money?
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Like, thank God.
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So I, uh, before I was in LA, I actually, this is like such a weird story, but I started off on social media.
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I feel like a lot of people, uh, know me as a social media person, even though that wasn t something that I intended to be, I have social anxiety.
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So I feel like me being a social media star, isn t something that s,
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you know fits the most with me and something that I would ever want to do but when social media like Instagram and TikTok became popular apps when I was young I never wanted to go on it
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I remember being in high school like during lunch and a bunch of my friends had it and they made me make an account and post a video and I made one video and I happened to accumulate a bunch of followers off of that without me even you know trying to
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be an influencer.
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I was just being a random teenage girl posting as if any other girl would on social media.
1
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And I gained a lot of followers for that.
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And it was really cool.
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It was awesome.
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And I had no money.
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No one in my family had money to just buy a flight whenever they wanted, let alone live in California or be able to get into a music studio.
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And so I honestly think I was truly blessed with that opportunity because I wouldn t still be able to leave and do what I ve always wanted to do and sing if I couldn t have the money first.
1
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And even the audience, it allowed me to go to LA and to get in a studio.
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And by the time I even had my first song out, people already knew who I was.
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That s incredible, that s incredible.
1
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What was your, going backward, if you could think of a couple of memories from your childhood that you feel made you really find it to be so tough or your teenage life to be so challenging, what were those memories for you that you think spurred this desire to leave and build your own life and create and kind of follow that higher power as you said?
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What were those things that happened to you specifically that you think were dark and hellish in that sense?
1
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Growing up, it was very hard for me to have friends.
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I struggled a lot in school and with people my age.
1
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You know, I was someone that was never really fit in, someone no one really understood, left out of a lot of things, bullied to an extent.
1
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And I feel like that also drove me to want to become better.
1
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And I believed my entire life just being a good person that will pay off.
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I feel like luckily it did.
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But even, you know, my home life wasn t the best.
1
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And seeing my parents struggle with, you know, financially and within themselves and with each other, I feel like that really drove me to
1
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I want to have a better life than what anyone in my family had.
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It was really hard growing up and I m at a place now where I love my parents so much, which came, you know, after a lot of healing.
1
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But I just saw a lot and I just knew that I wanted to be better than what I saw and I wanted to do better.
1
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And also, too, it s like where I m from, I m from a small town, a nine to five job and going to college.
1
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And that wasn t something that was for me, something that I desired, something that I was ever interested in.
1
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I remember junior year, I got in trouble because I refused to apply to any colleges.
1
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You know, I knew that I had to do something different.
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Was it you that rekindled your relationship with your parents or was it them?
1
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Like, how did that come about?
1
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Because that s really wonderful to hear when that can happen.
1
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It s not possible for everyone, but how did that start?
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Yeah, well, I ve always had a rocky relationship with my parents, but my mom, she s always my mom.
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And I loved her dearly and I always will.
1
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And so we ve always had somewhat of a relationship, even when I ran away, which at the time, me and my parents, we were not okay at all, which is why I ran away.
1
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um but uh yeah i started doing hypnotherapy maybe a little over a year ago if not a year ago and that has been the one thing that has truly been life-changing um and changed who i am as a person because the whole idea of it is that it reaches down in your subconscious
1
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And that s where all of your trauma is stored, you know, even things that you don t remember.
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And we worked through everything that has affected me to this day that I couldn t even tell you, you know, that we were able to bring out.
1
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And because of that, I ve been able to talk to my dad that I didn t for years and haven t since I ran away.
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I recently just visited them and went home for the first time last week for the July.
1
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I saw my little brother that I haven t even met yet because he was born a year ago.
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It s been really good.
1
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I feel like because of how I grew up and because of my childhood, I ve been very independent and I ve been that type of person that was like, I m going to do everything myself and I don t need anyone.
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I never needed anyone.
1
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you know, coming out here by myself at 17, being in this industry and having to do a lot, which does put a toll on you mentally and physically.
1
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And also seeing people that are doing the same thing as me around my age, having a family with them.
1
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At a certain point, I kind of realized how much family is important.
1
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No matter what, you know, no matter how bad things have gotten in the past, family is still family.
1
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And I ve kind of prioritized that recently.
1
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And I mean, I wouldn t be able to do it with therapy, but it s been really nice to have a relationship that I now have that I probably never had with them my entire life.
1
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That s beautiful.
1
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Thank you for sharing that.
1
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And it s so, so wonderful to hear that you ve been able to reconnect in that way.
1
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What do you think has been the hardest thing about coming out here on your own, figuring it out?
1
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Like what s been the biggest challenge with Hollywood, the music industry, this industry, as you mentioned, like what s been the most difficult obstacle that you think you ve had to face?
1
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I think loneliness, it s so weird how I would assume that some people, you know, that see me and see all that I ve accomplished and all of the people that listen to my music and follow me, they would think that that s something that I wouldn t struggle with, but it kind of makes me
1
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feel lonelier in a way.
1
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When I go on tour per se and I perform in front of thousands of people and I get off stage and I go back into a hotel room by myself, there s not a single thing that could explain how
1
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empty and lonely that feels, you know, being in front of so many people that love you and that you re connecting with through music and then just going back to have absolutely no one, you know, no one to talk to about it.
1
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Yeah, it s sad and I deal with things daily, you know, all the time.
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And sometimes I don t have the people that I can just, you know,
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call, like my mom, you know, I can t just have my mom that comes here and she can like tell me everything s going to be okay.
1
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And it does get scary.
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And I feel like I ve always been very mature for my age.
1
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But since being here, I ve matured a lot, having to deal with certain things in the industry.
1
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But still, at the same time, I feel like I m still a kid at heart.
1
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You know, I just am only about to turn 21, which is crazy to think about.
1
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But I don t know.
1
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I feel like loneliness is something that I struggle with.
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And it s very hard, especially in L.A.
1
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and Hollywood and industry to find the right people that you can really trust and count on.
1
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I feel like I m even lucky enough to say that I found like probably four, you know, the entire time I ve been here.
1
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But you never know what people s intentions are.
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And not everyone has the same heart as you, which I feel like I struggle with as well.
1
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Yeah, it s so interesting how artists I feel for years have struggled with being on the road alone.
1
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And this year I got a glimpse for my first time because I just went on a world tour.
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I d never done it before.
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I m obviously a lot older than you.
1
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And I was traveling from February 1st up until about two, three weeks ago when I got home.
1
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And that was the longest I ve ever been on the road.
1
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And I just sat there and just thought about all my clients or friends that I have who are musicians and people that I work with.
1
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And I was just sitting there thinking about how hard this would be if I started doing this when I was 15 or 16 or 17 or 20.
1
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and I can totally see why it s so challenging but it feels like no one s really found a way to make it easier which is why you still see artists after all this time cancelling tours and announcing that they need a break and it s do you now see that as
1
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natural that it is hard or do you sometimes still sometimes fall into the trap of like, oh, it s a weakness or it s something about you.
1
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Are you able to accept that this is just hard to do?
1
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Because I think some people kind of go back and forth.
1
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They feel guilty that they find it that challenging.
1
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I mean, I feel like it has to be hard.
1
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With all the amazing things that I ve been blessed with doing what I do, like there has to be things that have to be difficult, you know?
1
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And I don t mind, you know, struggling because it gives me something to talk about and to write about.
1
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I mean, that s the whole, that s what my whole music and everything that I m about is focused on is, you know, the things that I struggle with and I talk about them so that I can help people.
1
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In a way, it s hard, but I feel like I d rather deal with this, you know, and the struggles that come with this than, you know, having to do something that I don t love and, you know, be unhappy with my life.
1
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I think that s a great mindset.
1
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That s incredible that you ve been able
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to grasp that idea so young.
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I think that idea, and I just want to repeat it for everyone who s listening, because it s really powerful.
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You just said that the life you ve chosen, it comes with stresses and challenges and issues, but you d rather choose that life because it connects you to something you love.
2
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than the other life, which sometimes we think like there s a path that has stress and there s a path that won t have any.
2
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And that s just not true.
2
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Like both of them have it, whether you follow your dreams or you don t follow your dreams, there ll be stress on both parts.
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And it s about choosing which one you d rather have.
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So it s incredible that you ve grasped that idea.
2
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I know that you struggled with anorexia in the past and then you had a relapse during your tour as well.
2
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And I can t imagine just how challenging that is
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during a tour to have that experience again.
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Can you walk us through your relationship with it and how you ve been able to try and navigate it and still continue to pour out into your music and connect with your fans and show up today to talk about your experience?
2
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It s not easy to do that.
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How have you done that?
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I talk a lot about mental health because that s been something that I ve struggled with since I was six.
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And my entire life I ve never really known or had a figure that has made me feel like I m understood and not alone when it comes to things like that.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I feel like fortunately now it s not as taboo as it s always been.
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But I feel like for the past almost two years now, anorexia has been
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one of my biggest mental health struggles.
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And I have made a song about it before, but I made that song when I was recovered at the time, so I wasn t dealing with it as hard.
2
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But an eating disorder is something that s very personal and very hard to even articulate yourself because it takes over your mind and it s very,
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different for everyone else and sometimes I shy away from talking about it because I m either embarrassed or I don t want to admit that I m struggling at the time because it s a very toxic disorder or it s very hard to talk about it and not be triggering to others.
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which gets difficult.
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And I still deal with it pretty bad to this day.
2
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I ve been in talks about, you know, getting treatment and hopefully seeing someone and finally getting help because as much as I try to take time to focus on mental health when you really need intensive treatment for something, you know, to go away for three weeks, it s not that easy when you re trying to write an album, you know, and tour.
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Dealing with it on the road, though, was pretty hard.
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When I m at home in L.A., I live by myself.
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And the only time I don t go out, you know, I don t really I m not that much of a social person.
2
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So the only time I leave my house is when I go to the studio and I make music.
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So being alone, I feel like it s it s hard to struggle with anorexia, but it s easier because I m alone and I don t have to, you know, deal with anyone around me or any triggers.
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and things like that.
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But being on tour, you know, constantly being around a group of people where it is normal for people to eat.
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That s a thing that has to be done, you know, in order to live.
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So to be around people that are actually, that don t struggle with it and are taking care of their bodies and that don t have to deal with body image.
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And then me also having to get on stage
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in front of people every night where it s like people are there to see me.
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Not only like the people that come to my shows, but everyone else gets to see them because people post videos.
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You know, there s pictures and videos taken at every angle.
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And no matter how much I feel safe
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and at home on stage, you know, performing my songs and being with everyone that relates to them.
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In the back of my head, when I m struggling with my anorexia, all I can think about is how insecure I am and how I might look and what people might say or think.
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And I ve had a lot of pretty dark breakdown moments before stage where
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I couldn t even see how I could get on because I couldn t even figure out what to wear, you know, that would make me feel comfortable.
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And when you re on the road for how many weeks or months, you don t have a huge option to, you know, to wear whatever you want, like your stage outfits or your stage outfits.
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The biggest struggle, I think, is just the physicality part of it.
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Scientifically, to be able to get on stage and have the energy to perform for, you know, over an hour every night, you have to have energy and energy comes with eating and food.
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And that was something that I struggled with because touring and, you know, my music and all this is so important to me.
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And it s really hard
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to not let my eating disorder get in the way of that.
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And so I would have to, no matter how hard it was, but try and sit as however long it takes me and force myself to eat.
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That way I could, you know, get up on stage the next night without being too tired or God forbid passing out.
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you know, not having the energy that they came for, you know, because that s what it s important.
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And mentally, too, it s like when I m at a really low point and struggling and not eating for a while, I m not my best self.
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You know, I m not giving off that energy that makes people feel good around me.
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And I think that s kind of the saddest part about it.
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You know, I want to be my best self always.
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And so it s hard trying to find a balance, you know, and figuring out ways to help you, but also not make things harder because the recovery process with anorexia is probably the hardest thing that I ve ever dealt with my entire life.
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Like, I ve been through intensive
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trauma therapy with hypno for my BPD.
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But, you know, just trying to figure out how to have a comfortable relationship with food itself is something that has been one of the hardest and scariest things that I ve ever done my entire 20 years of living, which is hard to also do that, you know, during this time of my life.
2
SPEAKER_04
When the Taliban banned music in Afghanistan, millions were plunged into silence.
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SPEAKER_04
Radios were smashed.
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SPEAKER_04
Cassettes burned.
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You could be beaten or jailed or killed for breaking the rules.
2
SPEAKER_04
And yet, Afghans did it anyway.
2
SPEAKER_04
This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol.
2
SPEAKER_04
The danger they endured.
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They said my head should be cut off.
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The joy they brought to the nation.
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SPEAKER_02
You re free completely.
2
SPEAKER_02
No one is there to destroy you.
2
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I m John Legend.
2
SPEAKER_04
Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_02
Hey everyone, this is Molly and Matt and we re the hosts of Grown Up Stuff How to Adult, a podcast from Ruby Studio and iHeart Podcasts.
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It s a show dedicated to helping you figure out the trickiest parts of adulting.
2
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like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone, and so much more.
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SPEAKER_05
We re back with season two of the podcast, which means more opportunities to glow up and become a more responsible and better adult, one life lesson at a time.
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And let me just tell you, this show is just as much for us as it is for you.
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So let s figure this stuff out together.
2
SPEAKER_02
This season, we re going to talk about whether or not we re financially and emotionally ready for dog ownership.
2
SPEAKER_05
We re going to figure out the benefits of a high yield savings account.
2
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And what exactly are the duties of being a member of the wedding party?
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All that plus so much more.
2
SPEAKER_02
Let s learn about all of it and then some.
2
SPEAKER_02
Listen to Grown Up Stuff How to Adult on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_06
Guess what, Mango?
2
SPEAKER_06
What s that, Will?
2
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So iHeart is giving us a whole minute to promote our podcast, Part-Time Genius.
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I know.
2
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That s why I spent my whole week composing a haiku for the occasion.
2
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It s about my emotional journey in podcasting over the last seven years, and it s called Earthquake House.
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SPEAKER_06
Mango, I m going to cut you off right there.
2
SPEAKER_06
Why don t we just tell people about our show instead?
2
SPEAKER_06
Yeah, that s a better idea.
2
SPEAKER_06
So every week on
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As a part-time genius, we feed our curiosity by answering the world s most important questions.
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Things like, when did America start dialing 911?
3
SPEAKER_00
Is William Shatner s best acting work in Esperanto?
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Also, what happened to Esperanto?
3
SPEAKER_01
Plus we cover questions like, how Chinese is your Chinese food?
3
SPEAKER_01
How do dollar stores stay in business?
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And of course, is there an Illuminati of cheese?
3
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There absolutely is, and we are risking our lives by talking about it.
3
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But if you love mind-blowing facts, incredible history, and really bad jokes, make your brains happy and tune in to Part-Time Genius.
3
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Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
3
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Yeah, thank you for being so vulnerable and open.
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I really appreciate it because, you know, that s what I m trying to create here is a safe space where people can actually be seen and heard yourself and then everyone who s listening who s either struggling with something similar or may love someone who s going through something like this.
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I can definitely testify that.
3
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getting on stage without an eating disorder is hard enough in and of itself.
3
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And so having that extra layer of worrying and being concerned and even the energy as you were saying about even having the energy to perform.
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I remember just before I was going on stage like being present
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I remember how much presents I needed.
3
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I also sleep really early.
3
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So to go on the stage at 8 p.m., I m like, it s coming over my bedtime in two hours.
3
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Like, how am I going to stay up without pumping my body with sugar or anything else?
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I want to stay up naturally.
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And that s without any of the stuff you re having to think about.
3
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So I m just empathizing and listening in to what that challenge looks like.
3
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What would you like people to know?
3
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about anorexia so that they re aware?
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Because I feel that a lot of the times these terms get normalized and we hear them everywhere, but then we kind of become desensitized to it and people aren t necessarily aware of how to deal with their friend who s going through it, or sometimes someone s kids going through it.
3
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From your experience, not as like it s the same experience for everyone because we know it s not, from your experience, what do you think it s good for people to know if someone they love
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or someone they know is going through something like this or they think they might be, what would be useful for them?
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I think the first and biggest thing is that not only with just anorexia, but with all eating disorders, it looks different on everyone.
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There s not a look to it.
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And I feel like it s so damaging when there s a common idea or image, you know, of how someone that is anorexic should look or how someone that struggles with an eating disorder should look.
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And they kind of, you know, take that as to how sick they are, which that doesn t matter at all.
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And I also feel like it s something that, you know, but just it s impossible to understand something like anorexia if you have not gone through it before.
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Because, I mean, to
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Even with me just saying what I struggle with out loud and the whole idea that me being obsessive and scared over food and obsessive with calories and terrified of weight gain and a control thing and all the things that I allow myself to believe which
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they re all lies and how my brain processes things and all of that stuff.
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I know that it s not real and I know that it s all lies, you know, and I know it s absolutely delusional, but that s still, that s the disorder, that s what happens.
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And so when you don t struggle with that, you don t understand that, you know, so I have a lot of people that, you know, have told me before, you know, just eat, you know, or like,
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People will say things that they think will help, but that s not.
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That s not the issue.
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You know, I think most importantly is just to, you know, with any mental health disorder, anything like that, just the best thing to do for someone is to just give them love and support.
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Sometimes it s best not to try too hard to give advice or to say things that you think are going to help because there are some things that, you know, might
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seem helpful and that you might have good intentions by saying, but it might trigger someone, you know, that s dealing with it.
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For example, I know for me, and I feel like it might be a common thing for a lot of people that struggle with anorexia, the word healthy to everyone is a great word.
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You know, it s a positive word.
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Everyone wants to be healthy.
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But for me, when someone says that I look healthy, it makes me want to spiral.
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You know, it makes me go crazy because that s not a word that, you know, healthy to me.
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I associate with something that, you know.
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is not the best because unfortunately in my brain being called sick is something that in a terrible and ugly way is something that comforts me more than the word healthy.
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Which little things like that I feel like is important for people to know that want to be there for someone that don t you know understand it s like just have to be wise and not walk on eggshells but just be more
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sympathetic and understanding of what they could possibly be going through, even though you don t understand.
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It s something to this day that I still don t understand or get.
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I kind of struggle with even coming to terms with the fact that I deal with it because
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I am now at the point where I m aware of how unhealthy it is, but I still can t process, you know, that it really isn t real because I still have that eating disorder mind, you know.
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But yeah, I think just being supportive and loving and dealing with it with grace and patience.
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I feel like that s a big thing.
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Everyone wants who they love to be better and the best that they can be and healthy and to get help when they need it.
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But I think sometimes people forget the fact that getting help and recovery is something that s very linear and not linear.
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It s a long process, you know, and it takes time and something like this.
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I mean, I ve been rushed into recovery before, which led me into
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a pretty terrible relapse, you know, it takes time.
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So you just have to be patient with people that are struggling and just give them as much love as you can.
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I feel like love goes a long way.
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Yeah.
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Well, I think for what it s worth, your awareness and how
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eloquent you are in explaining at least what you re experiencing is really admirable.
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Thank you.
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Honestly, like just hearing you talk about it and reflect on it, your awareness is so high, which is an incredible step in your journey.
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And I think the advice you gave or the insight you gave is really useful because
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I think when we love someone, we think we have to solve their problems and we think we have to say the perfect thing and we think we can fix it.
3
SPEAKER_03
And you re so right that actually what we need to do is be patient and supportive and loving and kind and just be there.
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Yeah.
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And we don t have to say the perfect thing and we don t have to have the perfect advice because we don t know what it feels like.
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And I think that that s really useful for people to hear because we think we re useless if we can t fix someone s problems when we love them.
3
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And that person doesn t think you re useless, that person actually prefers if they just know you re there.
3
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And you don t have to have the solution.
3
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One thing I loved when our teams first started talking about us sitting down was your eight stages of a breakup, your new music.
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And I wrote a book called Eight Rules of Love this year.
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And so when that came up, I was like, I wrote a book about love this year, which is why I was on tour.
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And you ve written music, you know, and I know on TikTok, I ve been watching your videos of each stage and each part.
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And
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I find that you ve had two public breakups.
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It s never easy.
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Could you walk us through what you find is different between a public breakup and a private breakup?
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Because I almost feel like we don t really grasp that again until you ve lived it.
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And I m guessing you had breakups previously that were not public, potentially.
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What are the differences?
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What do you notice?
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Breakups in general are just absolutely the worst.
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Yeah, hard.
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Even though I feel like they re very critical experiences that you have to go through in life in order to grow, they suck.
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But a public breakup, man.
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It s just the fact that it s not, you know, just your close relatives and friends that know about you and your relationship.
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It s probably millions of people that have kept up to date with, you know, your relationship.
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And I ve been so invested and very, like, fixated on it.
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And even when it comes to the media today, anything that happens, even when it s not a breakup,
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drama is entertainment, you know, people love to talk, people love to speculate.
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And so dealing with public breakups, I feel like
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of the drama that has to come with it, which I feel like is very unnecessary and causes a lot more pain and hurt to the people that are actually going through it.
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You know, that doesn t help.
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But it s like, when I m dealing with the grief of a relationship and losing someone that I love so dearly, and then
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Also, on top of that, having to deal with hundreds of thousands of people talking about it as well, saying things that aren t true, you know, saying things that are hurtful, putting their two cents in it, being very insensitive towards the whole thing, you know, not really understanding because people don t understand that, you know,
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people in the public eye could possibly be, you know, actually human with actual lives and like emotions when they see whatever, you know, I let them on to see because I, you know, am like a public figure.
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I feel like they kind of take that as, oh, this is, that s her life.
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You know, that s all that they are.
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But behind closed doors, it s like, I m, I deal with it, you know, the depth of life as just as anyone else would.
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And so a relationship and a breakup for me is just as real as love is for anyone else.
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And I feel like people forget that.
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So I feel like that s hard with having to deal with everyone s opinions and comments and all this stuff.
4
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that comes with that, but as well as nonstop constantly seeing, you know, pictures or videos and videos like, you know, just anything about me and my past relationship and like all of that stuff.
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I feel like, you know, growing up in high school when I first had my boyfriend and everyone started getting in like relationships, like it was like a rule.
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Like when you break up with someone, like you delete their number, like you unfollow them on Instagram.
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Like you don t look at them, you don t talk to them, like you don t hang out with them.
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Like it s like a out of sight, out of mind type thing.
4
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You know, it helps you get, you need that period where it s like, they re gone, you know, and you can get over them easier.
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We ll like,
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It s impossible for me.
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It s everywhere.
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And so I feel like that s hard, you know, that constantly being brought up.
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I mean, how could you expect anyone to properly move on and get over a relationship that was so deep and intense when it s constantly talked about, constantly brought up in my life?
4
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It s hard not to mention I have a song with one of my exes, which is, you know, it s just it s kind of.
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It s so different.
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It s so different.
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And yeah, I feel like, you know, regular breakup through having to deal with a breakup with the public is always going to be hard.
4
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And, you know, they re both hard, but I feel like having the media vault is 100% a lot more difficult.
4
Yeah.
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How did you come up with the eight stages of a breakup?
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Oh my god, this is so funny.
4
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But I was listening to... So a lot of the times I m very intentional and I...
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I m very thought out when it comes to every little thing that I do, especially with music.
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But this whole eight stages of a heartbreak and breakup thing actually came after it was done.
4
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I was listening from top to bottom through my entire EP after it was mixed and mastered.
4
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And I was kind of like, you know what?
4
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This is kind of like going through all eight stages of a breakup, because I was like, instead of the seven stages of grief, this is like eight stages, because there s eight songs, of a breakup and the grief of a relationship.
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And I was with my dean, and they were like, whoa, it s kind of cool.
4
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And I was like, yeah, and so it all makes sense sometimes.
4
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I plan things out before, sometimes things just magically fall into place and make sense after.
4
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But yeah.
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I love it.
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I love it.
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I think when we start recognizing there s stages and phases to anything.
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Oh yeah.
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It helps us so much as humans where we realize it s not just all one big thing.
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there s actually changes in how we feel.
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What s the, what have you found to be the hardest stage in a breakup for you personally?
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Or like, what s, what s the stage that you find the most challenging?
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I feel like they re all really hard, but I feel like the one, I think that I, I called this one the desperate stage.
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And I just made a video about it cause I have this song called Motel Whore.
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And I was like, this one represents the desperate stage of a breakup and it s,
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It s kind of like that bargaining stage where you just try and do whatever you can to get that person back in your life, no matter what costs and like however you can.
4
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So, yeah, it s when like you break up with them and then you re at the point where it s like you just want them in your life, that you re willing to do whatever it is to keep them in your life somehow, even though it hurts you because you know the way that you want them in your life is the way that you had them before in that relationship.
4
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but now it s like it s not that and so you kind of end up hurting yourself more because you re you know putting yourself back in that place but also knowing that like you re gonna end up leaving heartbroken again because it s a lot harder when you know you try and be with that person whether it s like friends or
4
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just like hooking up or any of that stuff when there s like actual real love and connection on your part still but it s like and you try to convince yourself like oh like this is going to get them back like our relationship is going to be like you know how it was before but it doesn t happen and then it crushes you even more.
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I feel like that s the hardest stage when you just become very desperate for any ounce of attention that you can get
4
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from that person because it ends up breaking your heart even more.
4
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You know, you didn t, you could skip that stage and, you know, fully like lead on the path of healing the way that you should.
4
SPEAKER_00
But I feel like that s like the one stage where we kind of like trip up the stairs and we re like, oh God, yeah, we made it harder for ourselves.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s well said.
4
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I can agree more that that really resonates because I think we re living in that dream of like what it could have been and what it should be.
4
SPEAKER_01
And like,
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they must love me and I m going to get it back and I m going to win them over.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I mean, we waste so much time in that.
4
SPEAKER_01
What do you think is like the longest stage?
4
SPEAKER_01
What stage do you think you spend the most time in when you break up with someone where you re just like so much energy gets sucked out and being lost at a stage?
4
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trying to recover from the codependency part.
4
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Because, I mean, when you re in a relationship, I know I get so codependent on someone, you know, that s the person that you have always, you know, there s something that you go through, like you have that one person that you can talk to, cry to, they re always there for you.
4
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They become your comfort, you know, that s your safe place.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then when,
4
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the relationship s over, it s like you don t have that.
4
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You re left on your own.
4
SPEAKER_00
I feel like that was the longest stage for me to get over because I was so used to being so codependent on someone and, you know, having that comfort when it s all gone.
4
SPEAKER_00
Every time that I dealt with something that was hard for me, every time that I got upset, every time I felt alone, I couldn t help but want and like crave that person because I was used to having them during those times.
4
SPEAKER_00
and trying to escape from the codependency and learning how to love yourself and enjoy your own company and even just like coming to terms with the fact that like you can be that person for yourself, you know, and that you don t need anyone.
4
SPEAKER_00
I feel like that s the longest process, 100%.
4
SPEAKER_01
You re so right.
4
SPEAKER_01
What helped you personally in both those stages?
4
SPEAKER_01
So let s go back to the first stage, that stage of like, I m desperate, I ll do anything to get them back.
4
SPEAKER_01
You said that was the hardest stage.
4
SPEAKER_01
What helped you in your life
4
SPEAKER_01
break through that stage, because you re so right, it is the hardest, because it s the one where we have the most hope, but it s false hope.
4
SPEAKER_01
And it s the one where we also are living the most in dreamland in our minds.
4
SPEAKER_01
So it s so hard when that picture crumbles.
4
SPEAKER_01
What have you done?
4
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What s really worked for you?
4
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I think therapy was a big thing for me, and there was a moment during that time where I fully took the step to almost fully isolate myself, where I was only focused on myself and my healing.
4
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my music and things that made me happy.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I spent that time really trying to figure out, you know, who I am as a person and the things that I love and the things that help me.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so it kind of like
4
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You know that like point of relationship where like you start to like understand and like know that like person that you re with, you know, and you get closer with them.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like that very beginning.
4
SPEAKER_00
It was kind of like I started to go through that with myself.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so it kind of took me away from having to, you know, really struggle with the the breakup.
4
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I feel like you just got to fake it until you make it and just force yourself.
4
SPEAKER_00
And there s always going to be days, I mean,
5
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And like, I thought there was like a day where I was like, fine.
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And then two seconds later, I see something and I m bawling my eyes out, you know?
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And even like randomly, like, you know, months later, I m fully moved on, but I ll still get sad over things because like, love is such a strong feeling that never goes away, no matter like what happens or how things ended and you know,
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Any of that, like if you ever had true love for that person, you re always going to love them.
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It was always hard, but I think the second that I really started to prioritize myself and to really just like focus on myself and fixate on that rather than how much I miss that person, it helped.
5
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Yeah, that s, yeah, that s really.
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I hope that s going to help people.
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I hope it sits with people because you re right.
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It s just almost like you got to push through sometimes.
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It s not going to be easy.
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It s not going to make sense.
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But when you re in that longest phase and it s just getting drawn out, how do you even keep hope?
5
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And how do you even keep faith that I can have love again and that I do deserve to be loved?
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Because I think in that longest phase is where a lot of people get so broken down.
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that they re like, I m not lovable, I m not likable, I m not worthy, I m not attractive, I m not smart, whatever it may be that that person made me feel.
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Now it s like, I can t be all of those things because that stage is drawn out so much that it beats up your self esteem.
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Does that make sense?
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No, that was something that I struggled with for the longest time.
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And I think that the more that you keep yourself in that mindset, the hardest that it s going to be to get out of that because, yeah, of course, I mean, like when you start kind of like tearing yourself down and thinking about, you know, how difficult it is to find love again that you won t because no one s ever going to love you and all that stuff and you re worthless.
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everything that comes with that, it s going to keep you away from doing the proper healing and to actually want to heal.
5
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Because if you have that mindset, then it s like, what s the point of healing, you know, and getting better?
5
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I realized I got to a point where I was like, yeah, I m never going to fall in love again, or no one s ever going to love me.
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And then it got to the point where
5
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I was like, you know what, I don t care.
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I don t care to ever have a relationship.
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I m fine.
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Because every relationship, I mean, there s probably going to be a few trial and error ones until you find the person that you really end up being with.
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And so it s no guarantee that the next one that I get in a relationship with is going to be the one which would most likely end up in a heartbreak that in that moment, I m like, I cannot afford to go through again.
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So I don t even care to
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you know, be in a relationship or find love again.
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But then in therapy, I realized that it s that s not going to change unless you love yourself.
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I feel like loving yourself is like the biggest thing and like the most important thing.
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And I feel like everyone kind of neglects that because it s like it seems like something that s just not not like unnecessary, but we overlook it because like we are, you know, who we are and
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we give love to everyone around us because like that s life you know but I feel like a lot of the times we forget to look internally and the only way that you can give things to people is if you already have it within you and when I realized that even if like I want to be
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in a relationship and I want someone, I want to be in love, I m probably not capable to love someone as best as I can because I can t even love myself and I don t right now.
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And so, yeah, I feel like as soon as you just work on that self-love, that s when things start being easier because then you also get out of that mindset where you re like, you don t really need anyone, you know?
5
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And you couldn t be okay with, you know, not having to look, you know, and constantly like,
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think about wanting a relationship or like finding that person to be with.
5
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And you can just like spend, you know, nights alone without having to cry about it or wish that there was someone with you.
5
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But yeah, self-love, I feel like is the key.
5
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A new season of Bridgerton is here.
5
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And with it, a new season of Bridgerton, the official podcast.
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I m your host, Gabrielle Collins.
5
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And this season, we are bringing fans even deeper into the ton.
5
SPEAKER_00
Colin Bridgerton has returned from his travels abroad.
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SPEAKER_00
Is Betrothal written in the stars for the eligible bachelor?
5
SPEAKER_00
Meanwhile, the ton is reverberating with speculation of who holds Lady Whistledown s pen.
5
SPEAKER_00
We re discussing it all.
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I sit down with Nicola Coughlin, Luke Newton, Shonda Rhimes, and more to offer an exclusive peek behind the scenes of each episode of the new season.
5
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Watch season three of the Shondaland series on Netflix.
5
SPEAKER_00
Then,
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Fall in love all over again by listening to Bridgerton, the official podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
5
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Subscribe to catch a new episode every Thursday.
5
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how do you find things or how have you found things that you love about yourself?
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Because I think we live in a society that makes us love ourselves because other people love us.
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So it s like, if someone thinks you re attractive, then you think, oh yeah, I m attractive, this is good.
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Or if someone thinks you re really smart, then you re like, oh yeah, they think I m smart, so now I m smart.
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So much of our self value weirdly is placed on other people valuing us.
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How have you found things to really love about yourself?
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I agree with you fully, but how do you go that step further to be like, I really love this about myself, even if no one else sees it?
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I could never understand the things that I could possibly love about myself until the moment that I thought about my younger self, because that s still me.
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You know, the second that I started, you know, looking back on the person that I used to be and
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you know, even just like six-year-old me, I started to think about all the things that she would be so happy and proud of that I ve done, you know, today.
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That s when I started to, you know, find things that I actually could feel, you know, love for myself with and to feel proud of myself.
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uh for and all of those things and then I don t know and then sometimes you just kind of have to dig a little bit deeper because I feel like self-love is a lot less superficial than um you know any other love could possibly be um and it has to be really deep because it s like
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you know who you are as a person to the deepest core more than anyone else could, more than you can know other people in order to love them.
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So I feel like that s why it s tricky for us to love ourselves, because we know the ins and outs of us and the worst parts of us and the ugliest parts.
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And so we re worst critics.
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I feel like that s the hardest thing, but yeah, when I thought about it and I m like, okay, well, I ve been able to do the things that I did, which I never thought I was able to, like that s something that I should be proud of.
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The things that I ve gone through that I never thought that I could make it out of and my strength, like that s something that I should love myself for.
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and just have compassion for myself for even just the fact that like at the end of the day no matter all the things that I ve been through and no matter like how bad people have treated me like the fact that I m still a good person and I still have a good heart and I know that
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you know, more than anyone else could.
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That s the reason why I should love myself, you know.
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So I feel like it s just like little things.
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And I feel like it s just very important to just like sit down and really just like analyze yourself and to, you know, just take time to like understand you, which I feel like is something that I just learned how to do.
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But it s like it s really nice.
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Everyone who s listening, I want you to take a screenshot right now and I want you to listen to that part that Nessa just said again and again and again.
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It could even put you to sleep.
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It s so brilliant because everything you just said, that literally the last 30 seconds, I promise you, if you just listen to the last 30 seconds again and again and again, the point will become so clear because
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What you just said sums up an idea that I really believe in.
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I believe that self-care comes from comfort, but self-respect comes from discomfort.
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And you just said that when you look back at all the things you ve been through,
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And all the things you survived and all the things you ve done, that s what makes you love yourself.
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And I believe that everyone who s listening or watching today, they ve all been through hard things.
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Everyone s been through some sort of difficulty in their life.
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They re still alive, they re still breathing, they ve still held on to their good heart.
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They re still a good person.
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And that s what you really want to love yourself for.
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And when you learn to love yourself for that, you realize no one ever gave you that and no one can take it away.
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Exactly.
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And it s yours.
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Whereas all the other things, they ll come and go and people will change their mind, but this is something that s forever yours.
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You just summed it up really beautifully and I love the way you said it.
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I hope people will, honestly, I mean that, just repeat it again and again because it s just rewiring our thoughts to be like, that s why I m valuable.
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I m not valuable because of all these other things that people are saying.
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One thing you do that I love, you do,
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a burn box on stage where you get fans to write messages and then you burn them.
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That is so cool.
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I love that.
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That is the dopest thing I ve ever heard of.
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I was like, you need to do that at my next show.
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Where did that ritual come from?
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Walk me through.
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Did you used to do that yourself?
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Was that something you invented for the community?
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Like what, tell me where that came from because I love that.
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When I saw that I was like, this is amazing.
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Thank you.
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Um, well, the thing about my music is that it s very,
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it s very deep and meaningful.
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And I talk a lot about mental health and I know that a lot of the people that come to my shows are there because they have struggled and they relate deeply to my songs.
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You know, it s not just, I never want my shows and my tour to just be a show where it s, you know, just me playing, you know, their favorite songs.
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Like I want this to be like,
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not like a therapy session, but like a healing, you know, moment for everyone, like a bonding moment, something that s really real, something that they can walk away from and not only just remember the music, but the feeling that they ve gotten from it.
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And I also wanted to do something that was interactive and helpful and healing the same way.
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And I thought that doing a burn box could be cool.
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And it was also kind of the easiest thing that we could, you know, execute.
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for my show like at the time, but I mean like what better
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like, interactive thing to do, like, on stage than to have, you know, a bunch of my fans that are coming to the show and write on a little piece of paper things that they re struggling with, they want to let go of, get off their chest, and just, like, let, you know, just not bottle up anymore and just, like, get off their chest, write it down anonymously, put it in this burn box, and then watch it being burned on stage.
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You know, I feel like that there s something so
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powerful about that and I m so glad that we did it because it was it was you know most of their like favorite parts of the entire show and it s helped a lot of people and I even like I ve seen like people in the crowd they cry before while I m burning it and it s just like that s what like makes that s what makes my day and that s what motivates me to
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you know, even do the show and to like do what I m doing now because like that s the reason why I m doing it.
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And it s so pure and heartwarming just to see like how something like that, you know, that I thought could be like a little fun, like could actually like affect them like on a deep level.
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But yeah.
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Yeah, well, I mean, it seems like all your music and all the work you re doing is so healing focused.
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It seems like you re doing so much self-healing.
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It seems like the work you want your community to do is healing.
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I think it s, I mean, I think it s a genius idea to do on stage.
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It s, I think it s such a beautiful thing to have rituals that communities, your audience can come and do together.
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And I can only imagine the incredible experience people are having.
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You said that was the easiest thing you could do at this stage.
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What s like the craziest thing you want to do that you think would be super healing for everyone?
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Do you have like a vision for it?
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You don t have to.
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I was just wondering if there s something else.
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I ve had some pretty crazy ideas.
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Let me try and think.
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I just want to do a lot.
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I know that there s certain songs that I d love to just be able to get certain people
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from the crowd that really resonate or are struggling with something that has to do with that song and bring them up and have a moment with them.
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I would also love a point where I ever have a big enough show where I can actually have some of my fans tell their stories, because I think it s just as important for me to have a voice as it is for them.
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Because I ve said this before, it s like, I kind of use my music to be the voice for the voiceless.
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And so when I get to a point where I can do whatever the heck I want on stage, like, I want to give them their voice, you know?
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I want them to have the mic and I want them to say whatever they feel the need to.
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But yeah, I don t know.
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I feel like there s so many, like, cool things to do.
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But the Brin Vox is just, like, so awesome.
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And it also was, like, very disappointing for some venues that I couldn t do it in because it was a safety hazard.
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But yeah, and I also love fire.
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I think fire is fun too.
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No, I love the interactive element.
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Even in my show, we did a ton of interactive stuff.
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I set people up on first dates on stage.
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I love it.
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I had, what else did we do?
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I locked people in the caves for 15 minutes.
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They had to spend time alone without their phone.
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Oh my God.
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We were doing this all on stage.
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And I love that interactive element because I agree with you completely that people need to feel and experience this.
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It s not just like some idea.
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And you re right that people really do have a letting go, releasing energy in the room when everyone s doing it together.
6
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So I m excited to see what you do next.
6
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Like that s brilliant.
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I think combining music and that sort of a healing experience is super unique and really powerful.
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So I m excited for you to have bigger audiences, bigger venues and all of that to come to you, all of that to happen.
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One thing that
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comes to mind for me when we re talking about all of this with you is just, you ve done so much at such a young age, it seems like you re navigating it and doing it in the best way you possibly can with getting the help and reconnecting with your family, doing therapy.
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I mean, I m so happy that you ve been supported this young and you found that support because
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I need to meet people have been around in the industry for decades and they ve just found support or i meet people.
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Who young and kind of really gone off on a different path and there s very few people.
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your age who I think have found that, and that s really incredible to see.
6
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What do you think that young artists need in order to be supported in their journey of being a musician, an actor, an actress, whatever it may be?
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What do you think would be really useful for them, for people who are aspiring?
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Because I think everyone would want, everyone from the outside would look at your life and be like, I want that, I want to be that.
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what do you think they should be aware of in their journey and pursuit that could help them?
6
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I think that the biggest advice and the biggest thing that has helped me and that I could tell anyone is to be very vocal and honest and open and vulnerable, you know, to the closest people around you, to your team, to the people that you trust, because I think that s how I was able to create such a stable support system around me from the beginning.
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Because, you know,
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everyone knows the type of music that I talk about and everyone knows that I actually struggle with it as well.
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And so I feel like that s why it s me being so open and honest about, you know, the things that I struggle with and my needs and the things that I need help with.
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I think that s
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helped me be able to continue this because there s other people that are aware and in support of that as well.
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And I think like even if people don t really struggle with anyone, just being honest in yourself and never losing sight of that.
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I feel like I ve even had moments where I ve almost lost myself in this because it s so easy to get influenced and to try and figure out, you know, what
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who s the person that people want you to be and who what s the type of music or you know anything like that that people want from you um but that s not gonna do anything but hurt you and your career and um I was just I had like a conversation like not too long ago where
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It s like, yeah, like my dream and my goal is to be like one of the biggest artists ever.
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Of course, that s like what I m doing this for, but I m not never in my entire life going to sit down and release a song that I know is a hit or to go and write a song that I know is a hit that doesn t feel like me as an artist and isn t something that I relate to just so that, you know, it ll, you know, give me a step up in the career and maybe like,
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you know, create this like skyrocket process for me because it is a hit, you know, and it s something that would be good in the industry.
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I d rather build whatever I can by being myself because that s more, it s more like I d feel more proud doing that in a
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accomplishing things, just being myself and, you know, saying the things that I want to say and being real.
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I feel like that means the world to me more than just, you know, being an artist and releasing hits and being a person that, you know, it s I feel like it s just the easy way out a little bit.
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But I feel like because of how I started this and how I continue,
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To do all of this is what s gonna make me be able to do it for the rest of my life because I m not gonna get like trapped in this like facade or this crazy headspace.
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It s like everyone knows me who I am and this music helps me and probably just as much as it helps everyone out there.
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And so I feel very fortunate for that.
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So yeah, anyone that is inspiring to do this or needs any advice, I would just say to be themselves.
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That s incredible.
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You re definitely wise beyond your years and I wish you all the best from the bottom of my heart.
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Like, you know, for everything you just said, I think we need more art in the world that is made from a place of healing in order to help people.
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It can still be fun and exciting and interactive and entertaining and all of that, but it s made from that deeper place, which I feel like you re definitely trying to channel.
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We end every episode of On Purpose with a final five.
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These are the fast five.
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The questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.
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However, when I get intrigued, I always go off record, which is fine.
7
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We ll do that.
7
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So Nessa, these are your final five.
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The first question is, what is the best advice you ve ever heard or received?
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Let go and let God.
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I feel like that s 100% the best advice ever.
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Beautiful.
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All right, question two.
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What s the worst advice you ve ever heard or received?
7
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Text him.
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All right, go on, tell me more.
7
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Tell me more.
7
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You know, if you re just like in your head about like an ex or anything like that, and someone tells you, you know what, just text him.
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Do not listen.
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Do not, you know.
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I feel like there s a lot of advice that kind of just enables your bad habits.
7
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Just try to stay away from that.
7
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Got it.
7
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Great, great advice.
7
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So I m going to ask you, I m going to go slightly off piste here because I think you might have some good advice for people.
7
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Let s say I have a hypothetical friend.
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It s a real friend, but let s say I have a friend who is around your age and she deals with people pleasing.
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She becomes friends with guys who actually want to get with her, but then
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she doesn t like them in that way, but then she feels bad to tell them that.
7
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What should she do in that scenario?
7
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Why are you laughing?
7
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There s something going on here.
7
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I was like, this reminds me so much of myself.
7
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Oh, right.
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Oh, that s so funny.
7
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Great.
7
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So what advice would you give to my friend?
7
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It s a real story.
7
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So I m like, I m like actually asking when she listens to this, she s going to be like, Jay, how did you put me out?
7
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I think boundaries is like the biggest advice.
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And I feel like when you are a people pleaser and you re a very nice person, like at the core and, um, you only see like the good in people and you can t really like, it s easy to like, it s, it s easy to ignore any red flags.
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I feel like, um,
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Just try and set as many boundaries as yourself and just like protect yourself and just be cautious.
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I feel like just being cautious is the biggest thing because there are sticky situations that you can get into just because you re genuinely a nice person and everyone has different intentions than you.
7
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So I think slow, being slow and steady and cautious.
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Okay, great.
7
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Yeah.
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I don t know.
7
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Sometimes it s hard for me to give advice when I m like, I don t even know.
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That s why I m asking.
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That s why I m asking.
7
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I want to know what you would do.
7
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Question number three, what keeps you up at night?
7
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Honestly, anything, anything and everything.
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I could think about, you know, certain situations that are happening in my personal life or, you know, I get paranoid and have like anxiety about like with my family because they re so far from me now.
7
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Or I just start thinking about
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deep things like God and the universe and aliens and weird stuff like that, and if I m even human.
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But yeah, I think anything keeps me up at night in a weird way.
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Even sometimes like songwriting.
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I feel like I ve stayed up for hours before trying to write a song.
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Absolutely goes nowhere.
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I love it.
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Question number four.
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If someone needs to break up with someone, what is your best advice to the person doing the breaking up?
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sit them down and have a really nice respectful conversation about it and be as vocal and honest as you can and still have compassion and not try to let things get fired up or also stand your ground because if you already want to break up with them don t let them convince you otherwise and do so without cheating or being disloyal because it is not nice.
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I have this song that I wrote recently that was it s called leave me better than you found me.
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And so it s kind of like that s like my whole thing like about breakups.
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It s like if you re going to break up with someone like don t do all of the
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the yelling and the arguments and the cheating and the slamming the door before you leave at like when you break up like literally just have it be like a nice mature open conversation and like you know have it be a kiss goodbye rather than like a slam to the door out type thing you know uh don t cause any more trouble uh trouble and like pain than like you know you need to
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Yeah.
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Great advice.
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Great advice.
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There we go.
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All right.
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Fifth and final question.
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We ask this to every guest who s ever been on the show.
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If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
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Okay.
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This one seems so stupid.
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This is the first thing that came up in my head, but I think that if there was a law that where if you had to
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I feel like I m gonna sound like so like cringe and like cliche doing this but like if you see someone like in public that s like very like obviously going through it and like crying and like in pain like
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give them a hug, give them love.
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I feel like that is something that should be a law.
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I feel like nowadays there s so much hatred and separation in the world.
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I feel like we just need a lot more love.
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So if there was a law that was like, if you see someone that needs it, give them love and give them a hug.
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I feel like that would make the world a lot more of a better place.
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That s awesome, I love it.
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Nessa, everyone, Hell Is A Teenage Girl music is out right now.
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I hope anyone who s going through a breakup, been through a tough breakup, just wants to have good energy and good healing in their life should go listen to the music.
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I know that I ll be recommending it to everyone.
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Nessa, I m just so grateful to you for...
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You know even just talking to you has been so peaceful so calming and what s really wonderful is hearing someone who s obviously been through so much but able to express it in a really coherent way that s not easy like that s really tough and
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hear about all the work that you re doing on yourself and the therapy and the hypnotherapy and just reflecting and making music and expressing your art.
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All of that is just, I really appreciate it.
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And it s, it s wonderful to see, and thank you so much for all the hard work you re doing for yourself and then to share it with others as well.
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But even just hearing you speak, I m like, I hope everyone just listens to this.
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episode on repeat because they re going to get so much out of it.
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But Nessa, thank you so much.
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Everyone who s been listening or watching, whether you re walking your dog, whether you re cooking, whether you re at the gym, whether you re driving, whatever you re doing, make sure you tag Nessa and I on TikTok, on Instagram, on threads, on Twitter, on any platform you re using, letting us know what stood out to you, what stuck out to you, what you re practicing, what moments you re re-listening to.
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I love seeing what resonates with you.
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Maybe you re going to do your own burn box at home.
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Get it safely.
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Thank you so much for listening and watching.
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A huge thanks to Nessa for being here.
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Thank you.
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And thank you so much.
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That was awesome.
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Thank you.
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If you love this episode, you will enjoy my conversation with Meghan Trainor on breaking generational trauma and how to be confident from the inside out.
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My therapist told me stand in the mirror naked for five minutes.
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It was already tough for me to love my body, but after the C-section scar, with all the stretch marks, now I m looking at myself like I ve been hacked.
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But day three when I did it, I was like, you know what, her thighs are cute.
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like how to start planning for retirement, creating a healthy skincare routine, understanding when and how much to tip someone, and so much more.
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Let s learn about all of it and then some.
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Listen to Grown Up Stuff How to Adult on America s number one podcast network, iHeart.
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Open your free iHeart app and search Grown Up Stuff.