0
SPEAKER_00
I panicked last night.
0
SPEAKER_00
What d you panic about?
0
SPEAKER_00
The double date, the turnaround.
0
SPEAKER_00
Did you deliver?
0
SPEAKER_00
I think I have a few options for you.
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh, this is incredible.
0
SPEAKER_01
Okay, so for the listener, this is BTS.
0
SPEAKER_01
We had a really fast turnover for last week s episode.
0
SPEAKER_01
So actually we re recording this just a few days after we recorded last week s.
0
SPEAKER_01
So Liz only had a couple days to make magic happen.
0
SPEAKER_00
I tried to re-download Hinge and I m logged out.
0
SPEAKER_00
So honestly, Universe is probably like, no.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, because that s not the route I want.
0
SPEAKER_00
Well, I was desperate.
0
SPEAKER_00
I obviously don t want it to be all dating apps, but last night it dawned on me.
0
SPEAKER_00
I was like, I got to put in some work.
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh, this is great.
0
SPEAKER_00
So it s not my favorite.
0
SPEAKER_00
It s not ideal?
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s not my ideal because I would typically put 10 to 14 hours into this, but I had less time.
0
SPEAKER_00
So I just did a lot of reach-outs.
0
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
0
SPEAKER_00
And some of them are no longer in LA.
0
SPEAKER_00
How desperate did you get?
0
SPEAKER_00
I did ask friends that already sent me up or don t tend to send me up.
0
SPEAKER_00
I did one reach-out just so you know.
0
SPEAKER_00
You did?
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it didn t pan out.
0
SPEAKER_00
That would be the plot twist.
0
SPEAKER_00
I know.
0
SPEAKER_00
Is that you are the, oh my god.
0
SPEAKER_00
I hope I m not, I don t do a terrible job that that s what happens, but there was one matchmaking.
0
SPEAKER_00
Heather s boyfriend has set me up a few times and he had talked about this guy and I d gotten like a bad LinkedIn screenshot, but I wasn t like insistent around it and so I circled back and now it s happening.
0
SPEAKER_00
I m obviously going to make it conditional on him bringing a friend.
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God.
0
SPEAKER_01
But he seems cute and great.
0
SPEAKER_00
Okay, tell me a little bit about him.
0
SPEAKER_00
He might be in finance.
0
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
0
SPEAKER_00
What s the age range?
0
SPEAKER_00
Usually the age range is in the 40s.
0
SPEAKER_00
Okay, I like this.
0
SPEAKER_00
So an older gentleman.
0
SPEAKER_00
And usually he sets me up, honestly, they re like solid.
0
SPEAKER_00
One of the guys that he set me up with lives in New York and I would have done a turnaround.
0
SPEAKER_00
What do we call that coming back to a person?
0
SPEAKER_00
We should give that a name.
0
SPEAKER_00
A return?
0
SPEAKER_00
A great return purchase?
0
SPEAKER_01
A return purchase.
0
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
0
SPEAKER_00
I mean, return purchase is funny.
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
0
SPEAKER_00
You would do that?
0
SPEAKER_00
I would do that for you.
0
SPEAKER_00
And he s great.
0
SPEAKER_00
But again, if this was a New York episode, no problem.
0
SPEAKER_00
I would have 10 people.
0
SPEAKER_00
L.A.
0
SPEAKER_00
 s a little tougher.
0
SPEAKER_00
And anyone who s dated in L.A.
0
SPEAKER_00
knows it s rough.
0
SPEAKER_00
So I have that guy.
0
SPEAKER_00
I do have a person from a dating app who s 50.
0
SPEAKER_00
I know a little higher up than we want to go, but seems very cool and like interesting and he s cute.
0
SPEAKER_00
And what s his job-ish?
0
SPEAKER_00
What s the... Industry?
0
SPEAKER_00
Industry, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
This is not how I would want things to go.
0
SPEAKER_00
I take this very seriously, you know, and I m...
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh, wait, I have a third one that I m actually excited.
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh, wait, I have a fourth one, too.
0
SPEAKER_00
So... This is me with, like, no time.
0
SPEAKER_00
Okay, first of all, he lives in Malibu, which, like, signifies a certain level.
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh, no, but also way too far away.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s, like, New York.
0
SPEAKER_01
It is.
0
SPEAKER_01
But remember what we re doing.
0
SPEAKER_01
This one is for you.
0
SPEAKER_01
This person we re picking is for— No, this is for you.
0
SPEAKER_01
I wouldn t— Wait, what?
0
SPEAKER_01
No, the whole point is that you re picking a person for you and then he s bringing a friend.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
0
SPEAKER_00
But to be TBH, I wouldn t be actively, like, pursuing these people.
0
SPEAKER_00
We need to pick people.
0
SPEAKER_00
The whole point is... Well, I think this is good because sometimes the people that I really want to go on dates with are kind of toxic and the ones that I m like, whatever, they can be healthier.
0
SPEAKER_00
So I think this is good.
0
SPEAKER_00
Then this goes back to what I just said.
0
SPEAKER_01
So we re picking a person for you.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
And then you will tell them, bring a single friend.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
0
SPEAKER_00
So that guy s an entrepreneur.
0
SPEAKER_00
Seems like we would honestly have a good night.
0
SPEAKER_00
And then there s this like Danish guy.
0
SPEAKER_00
We have a few friends in common.
0
SPEAKER_00
Someone I kind of had a thing with, but I think he teaches him tennis, so it s not like they re friends.
0
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
0
SPEAKER_00
It s weird.
0
SPEAKER_00
And he s a tennis coach slash therapist.
0
SPEAKER_00
Wait, go.
0
SPEAKER_00
Hold on.
0
SPEAKER_00
Which feels super great for us because that s kind of two of our core goals for the summer.
0
SPEAKER_00
Well, it was last summer.
0
SPEAKER_00
This would accomplish a lot of things for us.
0
SPEAKER_01
If we all go on a date together, we can t then take tennis from him if we don t like him.
0
SPEAKER_00
It could be a tennis date.
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God, this would be my dream.
0
SPEAKER_00
It would be a doubles game.
0
SPEAKER_00
You and your date and me and my date.
0
SPEAKER_01
But we don t know tennis yet.
0
SPEAKER_00
He s a tennis coach, so he ll teach us.
0
SPEAKER_01
We ll get a free lesson.
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh boy.
0
SPEAKER_01
You re adding a lot of layers onto an already complex sitch.
0
SPEAKER_01
I think we need to keep this first date dinner normal.
0
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
0
SPEAKER_01
Easy.
0
SPEAKER_01
But if we want to pick him, then maybe we could move on to tennis if we like him.
0
SPEAKER_00
But then it s like, if the date is bad, at least we learned tennis.
0
SPEAKER_01
I don t think we re going to learn tennis in one day, just FYI.
0
SPEAKER_01
I also think, how will it be a date if we are just playing tennis the whole time?
0
SPEAKER_00
Because that s the ideal date.
0
SPEAKER_00
You re not focused on the date, you re focused on the third thing.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s my whole theory about dates.
0
SPEAKER_00
The worst dates are the one where you re like,
0
SPEAKER_00
I only have me to talk about.
0
SPEAKER_00
Whereas like, oh, we re playing tennis.
0
SPEAKER_00
We re engaging on a third thing that has nothing to do with either of us.
0
SPEAKER_00
And you re getting to know how they play, how they are in BED.
0
SPEAKER_00
Like you re seeing... Excuse me?
0
SPEAKER_01
No one in the whole world should judge how I am in the BED based on tennis that I don t know how to play.
0
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely not.
0
SPEAKER_00
We should post videos of you playing tennis.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I don t know how to play.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s the whole point of why you need to take a real lesson.
0
SPEAKER_00
But maybe once you have this, you know...
0
SPEAKER_00
I feel so stressed out by you today.
0
SPEAKER_00
My God.
0
SPEAKER_00
But for guys and sports, any guy who doesn t know how to play sports, that s fine.
0
SPEAKER_00
But when he knows how to play well, you re like, alright.
0
SPEAKER_00
It gives you a sense of how they re going to be in the bedroom.
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God.
0
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
0
SPEAKER_00
Is there anything that you, in the wild, see a man do that has nothing to do with intimacy or sex?
0
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
0
SPEAKER_00
That when you see them do that, you re like, you re probably great.
0
SPEAKER_00
In bed.
0
SPEAKER_01
That s a great question.
0
SPEAKER_01
I guess, to me, if someone s showing confidence in any way, I sort of translate that over.
0
SPEAKER_01
I think, oh, they re probably confident because they know what they re doing.
0
SPEAKER_01
There s a lot of ways, I guess, to show that.
0
SPEAKER_01
I m trying to think what s like a good example.
0
SPEAKER_00
Well, the way that a man walks or enters a room.
0
SPEAKER_01
I mean more in the way they re treating other people.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like if they have to one-up, I generally think that person s actually insecure.
0
SPEAKER_01
Right.
0
SPEAKER_00
What about, have you seen the guys doing cooking videos online?
0
SPEAKER_00
Like Ryan s video?
0
SPEAKER_00
The opposite.
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh, they re like really good at it?
0
SPEAKER_00
It s very titillating.
0
SPEAKER_00
They ll like slap the salmon and then like spit a little bit on the... Oh my god, we re so different.
0
SPEAKER_00
Do you know what I m talking about?
0
SPEAKER_01
Okay, we re gonna... I don t know what s happening today.
0
SPEAKER_01
I feel... We re not synced.
0
SPEAKER_01
We re not synced today.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s okay.
0
SPEAKER_01
That s gonna happen.
0
SPEAKER_01
But listen, hold on.
0
SPEAKER_01
This is really important.
0
SPEAKER_01
I kind of know what you mean, okay?
0
SPEAKER_01
Because I do think a man who knows how to cook is hot.
0
SPEAKER_01
But I also have the other thing where I think certain men who think they re great at cooking or who are on these videos spitting on stuff and whatever.
0
SPEAKER_01
That is such a turnoff.
0
SPEAKER_01
They are trying so hard.
0
SPEAKER_01
There s a lot of arrogance in the chef-ing world.
0
SPEAKER_01
Because, you know, I m an Alice in Roman gal.
0
SPEAKER_01
She sometimes will say things like, ugh, men who cook love this.
0
SPEAKER_01
And it s always pretentious and trying.
0
SPEAKER_01
So I m on her page with that.
0
SPEAKER_00
I think there s two kinds of men and food videos.
0
SPEAKER_00
There are these guys who are intentionally, I mean it s, I ll show you one of them.
0
SPEAKER_00
It s on purpose?
0
SPEAKER_00
It s so sexual.
0
SPEAKER_00
Like it s almost like the food is just an excuse.
0
SPEAKER_00
You re watching and you re like, how is this legal?
0
SPEAKER_00
Like this shouldn t be.
0
SPEAKER_00
It s so overt and then there s some videos of guys.
0
SPEAKER_00
You ll be like, oh I found this recipe I m gonna make this sandwich or like and they re not trying but they re so hot like and then all of the comments will be flooded with women being like Oh my god, and the guy didn t do it on purpose, but the way he s eating the same.
0
SPEAKER_01
Oh my god, like Liz He definitely is doing it on purpose.
0
SPEAKER_01
No, no, no better at it than me.
0
SPEAKER_00
No other guy.
0
SPEAKER_00
No, no No, it s it s I m it s like a semi one right now.
0
SPEAKER_00
Okay, I ll find it.
0
SPEAKER_00
I think I saved it
0
SPEAKER_01
I want to live play it.
0
SPEAKER_00
Okay, well we should do a live reaction to you watching both and posting on social.
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh, maybe that s the social.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
0
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
0
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
0
SPEAKER_00
Okay, we ll do that.
0
SPEAKER_00
We ll do that.
0
SPEAKER_00
Where were we?
0
SPEAKER_00
But like I was watching, okay, so you ve told me so many times to watch Ocean s Eleven.
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
And so I decided to watch it last night.
0
SPEAKER_00
I don t know if it s like
0
SPEAKER_00
I m ovulating or like something in my cycle, but the amount of shots of Brad Pitt with like something in his mouth.
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh, no, that s the whole every scene he s eating.
0
SPEAKER_00
And it s hot.
0
SPEAKER_00
Like it s like he s so he s so hot and like eating a lot.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I m like, is this how men feel like those scenes with women and whipped cream or whatever, which I don t get or I don t get I don t when it s so overt, it s over the top.
0
SPEAKER_00
And this is not obviously.
1
SPEAKER_00
it s just he s cool and he s like he like is not trying to be sexy but there s yeah I was like feeling a lot of feelings.
1
SPEAKER_00
What a movie.
1
SPEAKER_00
Did you like it?
1
SPEAKER_00
I loved it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Isn t it good?
1
SPEAKER_00
It s really good.
1
SPEAKER_00
I didn t finish it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh god.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I know I have really bad ADD.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t even know what I started doing.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I m like halfway through and I really loved it, and I will finish it, and I thought it was great.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s all our favorite guys.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s the hottest guys.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, at their hottest time.
1
SPEAKER_01
They re so good.
1
SPEAKER_01
Okay, two things.
1
SPEAKER_01
One, this leads me to—we talked about this on a fact check, but I m going to ask you.
1
SPEAKER_01
This is Callie s first date question, and it s really good, okay?
1
SPEAKER_01
She asked people—I got the exact phrasing, so I need to figure it out.
1
SPEAKER_01
God, we text a lot.
1
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_01
She asked people, if you had to participate in an organized crime, what would be your crime of choice?
1
SPEAKER_01
That feels like a trick question.
1
SPEAKER_01
No, it will say a lot.
1
SPEAKER_01
It will.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, we should ask our guys this, but also you tell me.
1
SPEAKER_00
Probably like a chip stealing conspiracy, like stealing a bunch of snacks.
1
SPEAKER_00
I would be down with that.
1
SPEAKER_00
So just like robbing a convenience store?
1
SPEAKER_00
I would want to rob the bad guy, like the big guys.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you want to rob Frito-Lay?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
and redistribute to the masses.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh god, so you re like Robin Hooding this?
1
SPEAKER_00
No, okay, well I ll keep a lot for myself and it s a purely selfish endeavor.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_00
My dream when I was little was for my parents to own a convenience store because then I could have access to chips anytime I want.
1
SPEAKER_00
I thought about chips a lot.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
We ve talked about this.
1
SPEAKER_01
We ve definitely talked about it.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t think we ve really gotten deep on it though.
1
SPEAKER_01
Do we need to?
1
SPEAKER_01
I kind of want to because it s really interesting.
1
SPEAKER_01
What was it specifically about chips?
1
SPEAKER_01
Or what was the moment that you first had a chip?
1
SPEAKER_00
There s home videos of me as a literal toddler, where like my dad will be filming my sister on the monkey bars, and then he ll be like, Elizabeth!
1
SPEAKER_00
And then it s like me, somehow, I m not even walking yet, but I ve managed to get to a chip bag and I m eating chips.
1
SPEAKER_00
He s worried because you can t, you ll choke on them.
1
SPEAKER_00
Choke or, I mean, many reasons.
1
SPEAKER_00
Or maybe that s my second bag, you know, and I m two and a half.
1
SPEAKER_00
And even like random videos, I always have something in my, like I m always eating.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m snacking.
1
SPEAKER_00
Snacking was like a lifestyle, a definite like hobby and safe place for me.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean food and particularly snacks became also this like, totally.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like it was my way to like go to my happy place.
1
SPEAKER_00
And like have control?
1
SPEAKER_00
I think it was happiness and like relief.
1
SPEAKER_00
And me and Kat, one of our first crimes, coming back to crimes, was going
1
SPEAKER_00
to the bodega, basically, like Le Depardnage, our version, and lying to our parents about it and saying like, we re just gonna go to the park, and then we went to buy chips.
1
SPEAKER_00
And Kat was candy, and like I was salty and she was sweet, which was perfect, because we never needed whatever the other was.
1
SPEAKER_00
You don t want to share.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, there was never any sharing.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, this is the sad part of like, I have like memories of being in my room alone a lot, and then like having a bag of chips, and then feeling good, but then feeling bad afterwards, too.
1
SPEAKER_00
It was this thing I loved, but that I also loved too much, and I knew I loved it too much.
1
SPEAKER_00
You knew that you had an attachment that was sort of a problem.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, a compulsion that I couldn t stop when I wanted to stop.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_00
But chips end.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes, and that would be heartbreaking.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then I would be like, oh, I ll save some so I have some left and I wouldn t be able to do it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, again, we ve been through this, but I think it s one of the least talked about things that if you grew up with dysfunction, you have an eating disorder.
1
SPEAKER_00
And like most likely because it s so available to kids as a form of soothing.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s a way to take care of yourself.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s a thing you can do for yourself when there s not that much you can really do.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s nourishment.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
And if you re not getting it in other emotional places, I guess that makes sense.
1
SPEAKER_00
Totally.
1
SPEAKER_00
Did you have an attachment to food or like a certain kind of food?
1
SPEAKER_01
Cookies, I guess.
1
SPEAKER_01
Not really.
1
SPEAKER_01
I also have to credit my parents a bit.
1
SPEAKER_01
I didn t, I think we talked about this in the last episode, where you were saying, were you an ingredients family?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
We were not.
1
SPEAKER_01
We had all the stuff.
1
SPEAKER_01
We had the fruit roll-ups and the Dunker.
1
SPEAKER_01
We had it.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s my memory of it anyway, is there wasn t scarcity.
1
SPEAKER_00
You just had Dunkaroos?
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God.
1
SPEAKER_00
In your house?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
At all times?
1
SPEAKER_01
Not at all times, but we had them and I choked on a Dunkaroo.
1
SPEAKER_01
My God.
1
SPEAKER_01
And it was really traumatic.
1
SPEAKER_01
Wait, why?
1
SPEAKER_01
My mom had to like, kind of Heimlich.
1
SPEAKER_01
It came out before she had the full Heimlich, but... Oh my God.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s why you don t have an attachment.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, maybe.
1
SPEAKER_01
It turned out to be physically dangerous, which sugar is?
1
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s so scary.
1
SPEAKER_01
Was it a vanilla one or a chocolate one?
1
SPEAKER_01
A chocolate, I ll never forget.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I loved them so much.
1
SPEAKER_01
Were you able to eat them afterwards?
1
SPEAKER_00
Probably.
1
SPEAKER_01
I probably was.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I still love cookies.
1
SPEAKER_01
But in my head, I choked on like a big chunk of the icing, but that doesn t really make sense.
1
SPEAKER_00
It would because it fuses, or like it would be hard.
1
SPEAKER_00
The icing was hard, and so then it s just a lot, I mean, it checks.
1
SPEAKER_00
Then it s lodged in your throat.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, but it was full choking, like you can t make noise.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh no, Monica.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it was scary.
1
SPEAKER_01
Every time I think about that, I am reminded that I need to learn the Heimlich and relearn CPR.
1
SPEAKER_01
Do you want to learn it now?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, you know how to do it to yourself when you re alone, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
That s very important because as a single woman.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think you told me, but I kind of forgot.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay, so to anyone who s listening, if you are choking and you re alone somewhere, you grab a book, preferably like an atlas.
1
SPEAKER_01
An atlas?
1
SPEAKER_01
Sorry, sorry.
1
SPEAKER_01
No one in the library saw that.
1
SPEAKER_01
No one in the continental United States slash in 2024 has an atlas.
1
SPEAKER_00
OK, you re right.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like a coffee table book, like something that s just heavy, heavy, like obviously grab anything that you can or any book that you can.
1
SPEAKER_00
But the larger and the thicker, the better.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you put it right at your, oh, I don t know, plexus.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, you re saying solar plexus.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
OK.
1
SPEAKER_01
Do you mean like right under the boob?
1
SPEAKER_00
Under the first rib, basically.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m like, OK, I want to make sure I get it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Wait, can you Google it?
1
SPEAKER_00
I think you mean sternum.
1
SPEAKER_00
Sternum, yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
I know, but nobody knows where that really is.
1
SPEAKER_00
So there must be a thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
The breastbone?
1
SPEAKER_00
Give yourself a hemlock, just so we have like a name.
1
SPEAKER_00
Slightly above your navel.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay, that s your belly button.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, almost like in the middle of your stomach, basically.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay, okay.
1
SPEAKER_00
Slightly above your navel.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you place the book there, and then you run in direction of the closest, I mean, a table would be the best.
1
SPEAKER_00
even a wall will work, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Because then you re, basically you re creating a force that pushes it out.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you do it as many times, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Like the first time it might not work, but you just keep doing it.
1
SPEAKER_00
I know, I m, do you think about choking?
1
SPEAKER_00
I think about it.
1
SPEAKER_00
I do think all the time.
1
SPEAKER_00
Fuck.
1
SPEAKER_00
Supplements?
1
SPEAKER_00
I have to take so many supplements and every time I do a prayer, I m like, all right.
1
SPEAKER_00
Cause I take a bunch of pills.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, me too, but I never think about it with supplements.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh no, now I m gonna.
1
SPEAKER_01
Sorry, sorry.
1
SPEAKER_00
This says to use a fist.
1
SPEAKER_00
Really?
1
SPEAKER_00
Your own fist?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and then put your hand on it.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think the book is probably better because doing it yourself, you probably can t do it in the same kind of force as you would running into a wall.
1
SPEAKER_00
You want to do a J, basically.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, if you re doing the Hamlet to someone, you put your fist and then the hand over your fist, and then you re positioning your fist right above the navel, and then you re doing a J, like going inside of them like a J, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
I see.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you re just doing that as many times.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I hate this conversation.
1
SPEAKER_00
I know.
1
SPEAKER_01
I really don t like it.
1
SPEAKER_00
And if it s a baby, you wanna do the baby.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
1
SPEAKER_00
But if it s a baby, I mean it s hard to explain actually.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well you have to now.
1
SPEAKER_00
Okay, okay, okay.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God.
1
SPEAKER_00
If it s a baby you wanna, and this is under I think two or three, you wanna take the baby and basically put their stomach on your forearm.
1
SPEAKER_00
Turn them upside down.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you have their cheeks in your hand basically.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you are hitting the middle of their back in sort of a chopping motion, but that s like, what s that?
1
SPEAKER_00
Angled.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you re going pretty hard and that will create enough force.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh my god.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s like how many times can you knock on wood?
1
SPEAKER_00
I haven t even...
1
SPEAKER_00
I just feel like, please, can I never have to do that?
1
SPEAKER_00
But now that you know how to do it, it would be great for you to be there because you could save them.
1
SPEAKER_00
No, I don t want to do it.
1
SPEAKER_00
You d be great at it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh my god, Liz, stop.
1
SPEAKER_00
I get really, because I was a lifeguard, something happens to my brain, which I m like, I m not saying I m the best, but like, I wouldn t expect myself to be good under stress, and particularly that high level stress, but for some reason, I become like Mission Impossible.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m like so zeroed in.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that adds up.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s like when you tried to save the woman.
1
SPEAKER_01
You do get in zones.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, in the zone.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you ve had to do it?
1
SPEAKER_00
I ve never had to do CPR, knock on wood.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I ve had to intervene, like people drowning.
1
SPEAKER_00
And one time with Kat, with the two girls that were like drowning each other.
1
SPEAKER_01
Ugh.
1
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_01
I forget how we got on here.
1
SPEAKER_01
Heimlich.
1
SPEAKER_00
Dunkaroos.
1
SPEAKER_00
Double date.
1
SPEAKER_01
Double date, but there was something in between.
1
SPEAKER_01
Your crime.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, my God.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
The crime.
1
SPEAKER_01
The crime.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then we ll get back to the double date.
1
SPEAKER_01
So, my crime is in Ocean s Eleven.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s what made me think about this, is I want to be part of a big heist where there s multiple people involved.
1
SPEAKER_01
I also really like an art heist.
1
SPEAKER_01
So, I kind of want Ocean s Eleven in the art world.
1
SPEAKER_01
I would watch that movie.
2
SPEAKER_01
movie.
2
SPEAKER_01
I would watch you.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I would want like a live stream camera on you at all times.
2
SPEAKER_01
You would be so good at it.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re very sneaky.
2
SPEAKER_02
I wonder what, what part would I, who would I be?
2
SPEAKER_02
And who would you be?
2
SPEAKER_02
In Oceans 11, we have these characters and they play really different roles.
2
SPEAKER_02
Who do you think you d be?
2
SPEAKER_01
Man, I really wish I finished it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I d probably be the manipulative one.
2
SPEAKER_02
They re all manipulative.
2
SPEAKER_02
ripping off a casino.
2
SPEAKER_02
They just have different skills.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like, Matt Damon is like a lifter or whatever.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like, he can just, like, quickly steal things from people.
2
SPEAKER_02
George is the mastermind, right?
2
SPEAKER_02
Then Brad is kind of the front man a little bit.
2
SPEAKER_02
And logistics.
2
SPEAKER_02
I mean, they re both kind of logistics.
2
SPEAKER_02
But then, like, Don Cheadle is the ammunition guy or whatever.
2
SPEAKER_02
Then there s the contortionist.
2
SPEAKER_02
That s the initial thought, is like, I m small so I could fit into small places.
2
SPEAKER_02
But I think I m probably better served in a face-to-face manipulation.
2
SPEAKER_02
I feel like you re Brad.
2
SPEAKER_02
Me too.
2
SPEAKER_02
I could see you being a kind of contortionist, though.
2
SPEAKER_02
Because you have to jump from this thing.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, actually, no.
2
SPEAKER_02
Because when you jumped over that hole and then you didn t land.
2
SPEAKER_01
I would take risks.
2
SPEAKER_01
I am physical.
2
SPEAKER_01
If there was a physical thing, like I can get in the zone and get it done.
2
SPEAKER_01
I kind of think like you could be the amazing Yen.
2
SPEAKER_01
I feel like you are Brad because you could be in charge of everything.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think I could run logistics.
2
SPEAKER_01
And also like you re so smart.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was still like, no you are like even in the Dan video so many people were like how did Monica know like in the video you can tell immediately that you knew Dan was lying and like it took me like an extra couple of seconds but like your face like you just have a spidey sense doesn t even begin you just know stuff I feel like before the stuff knows
2
SPEAKER_02
I agree with you.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think I have a very strong intuition, and I have a strong Spidey sense about people.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think I can read people and machines, I guess.
2
SPEAKER_02
But you already knew what to do, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
You were like, oh, he s bullshitting, and then you had already made a plan in like a matter of fractions of a second.
2
SPEAKER_02
I m best served where I can be overseeing and then diverting.
2
SPEAKER_02
Hey, that person feels not right, or he s on to us, and we gotta pivot.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then creating a new plan, and then everyone s gonna do what you do, and it s gonna work.
2
SPEAKER_02
There s also getaway driver.
2
SPEAKER_02
That s not us, I don t think.
2
SPEAKER_02
You re a good driver.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, definitely not you.
2
SPEAKER_02
No, God, no.
2
SPEAKER_02
I would be so bad as a getaway driver.
2
SPEAKER_00
Remember when we couldn t remember where you parked and we went up and down the hills?
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, my God.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
Driving, no.
2
SPEAKER_02
Support for Cynct comes from Vegamour.
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2
SPEAKER_01
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2
SPEAKER_01
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SPEAKER_01
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With using Vegamour, it s back.
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After placing your order, select podcast in the survey and select our show in the dropdown menu that follows.
2
SPEAKER_02
Anywho, okay.
2
SPEAKER_02
So back to our double date.
2
SPEAKER_02
So we have a Danish tennis therapist, an entrepreneur.
2
SPEAKER_02
An older entrepreneur.
2
SPEAKER_02
Who is a LinkedIn guy.
2
SPEAKER_02
Someone who s on LinkedIn.
2
SPEAKER_02
And then you had a fourth one?
2
SPEAKER_01
Well I have a fourth one that would be a twist, but it s a woman.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh.
2
SPEAKER_01
And she would obviously have to bring a guy.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that could be kind of funny.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh that s interesting.
2
SPEAKER_02
Is she on one of your dating apps?
2
SPEAKER_02
She s on my dating app and I ve for years kind of ignored.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s a twist.
2
SPEAKER_01
I like it though.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean we know
2
SPEAKER_01
It s just gonna be a better date.
2
SPEAKER_01
For you?
2
SPEAKER_01
With a guy, there s more chances of it being a bad time.
2
SPEAKER_01
Of you getting offended by something they re gonna say, or they re not asking you questions, or whereas, like, with a woman— Do you want to date this woman?
2
SPEAKER_01
Maybe, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
No, I m, like, interested.
2
SPEAKER_01
We have a lot to choose from.
2
SPEAKER_01
I know.
2
SPEAKER_01
We could do all four.
2
SPEAKER_02
And remind me about the Danish tennis guy.
2
SPEAKER_02
He was from an app as well.
2
SPEAKER_01
He s from an app.
2
SPEAKER_01
We have all these friends in common.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, right.
2
SPEAKER_01
One of them being someone I was involved with.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know when you see the friends in common and it s like a green flag.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re like, oh, these are— Cool people.
2
SPEAKER_01
Cool people.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_01
He s Danish.
2
SPEAKER_01
I just feel like it s fun.
2
SPEAKER_02
All right.
2
SPEAKER_02
I mean, but I also like the idea of the older entrepreneur.
2
SPEAKER_02
He s been recommended.
2
SPEAKER_02
That s the LinkedIn guy.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, do you want to do three?
2
SPEAKER_02
Let s pick one today.
2
SPEAKER_02
Let s start with one.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think we should start with the LinkedIn guy.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
The friend of your friend.
2
SPEAKER_02
OK, great.
2
SPEAKER_02
LinkedIn guy?
2
SPEAKER_01
Just cause he has a profile He does have an Instagram but it s private like he s not really on Instagram which to me is at this point yes like the best and so it s kind of cool that he s on LinkedIn
2
SPEAKER_00
LinkedIn is where we get the most info about him.
2
SPEAKER_00
He s a LinkedIn influencer.
2
SPEAKER_01
Let s move forward with LinkedIn.
2
SPEAKER_01
Should we use LinkedIn as like a dating app?
2
SPEAKER_01
When you think about it, that s all the information we need.
2
SPEAKER_01
I like personality stuff.
2
SPEAKER_02
I don t like just knowing where someone works.
2
SPEAKER_01
I know, but okay I mean, you can, you can use it I m logged out, I can t get into my LinkedIn How will you reach him?
2
SPEAKER_02
We re set up Yeah, we re set up This is dead in the water, we lost our platform
2
SPEAKER_02
Okay, great.
2
SPEAKER_02
So TBD on date with LinkedIn guy and friend.
2
SPEAKER_02
Did we hit all our pins?
2
SPEAKER_02
You re in a chip scheme.
2
SPEAKER_02
I m art heist.
2
SPEAKER_02
Would you enjoy being a criminal?
2
SPEAKER_02
Like if it was available to you?
2
SPEAKER_02
So Callie and I talked about this.
2
SPEAKER_02
She has like a fantasy about this a little bit.
2
SPEAKER_02
She finds this very romantic.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh.
2
SPEAKER_02
The idea of organized crime.
2
SPEAKER_02
Or being a part of, like, something naughty.
2
SPEAKER_02
But I don t generally think of it as exciting or cool or fun.
2
SPEAKER_02
Because I m scared.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m a scared person.
2
SPEAKER_02
You don t love breaking the rules.
2
SPEAKER_02
I don t.
2
SPEAKER_02
But that s why, when it s an Ocean s 11, it s like a big friend event.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
And then I like it.
2
SPEAKER_02
If it s an ensemble cast, then I enjoy that.
2
SPEAKER_02
A solo thievery is not for me.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s just nothing s worth it.
2
SPEAKER_02
Right.
2
SPEAKER_02
The whole fun of it is to do it with your pals.
2
SPEAKER_02
You d chip steal by yourself, probably.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I shoplifted.
2
SPEAKER_01
By yourself?
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, I did it with friends.
2
SPEAKER_01
It started with a friend and then I kind of did it on my own and got caught with Kat and Kat didn t know.
2
SPEAKER_01
Was it chips?
2
SPEAKER_01
It was.
2
SPEAKER_01
It would make sense.
2
SPEAKER_01
It would.
2
SPEAKER_01
I wish.
2
SPEAKER_01
It didn t even steal what you wanted.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it was hair clips.
2
SPEAKER_01
So very.
3
SPEAKER_00
1999 core.
3
SPEAKER_00
Was it from Claire s?
3
SPEAKER_00
It was, yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
Our version is Ardenne.
3
SPEAKER_00
I know.
3
SPEAKER_00
I still shop there now.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like Dunkaroos, I went right back.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I m torn because it doesn t, it actually, the fact that I shoplifted doesn t make sense to me.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t think I love breaking rules.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God, I had a boyfriend that kind of shoplifted.
3
SPEAKER_00
Now I m like, I m not thinking about that for a long time.
3
SPEAKER_00
It was like the very toxic.
3
SPEAKER_00
Before?
3
SPEAKER_00
In my 20s.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was in a very serious relationship with someone who would kind of engage in a lot of rule breaking in a way that was like, again, made sense afterwards.
3
SPEAKER_00
Sociopath.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
It was an abusive relationship.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it made me very uncomfortable because even when I would ask him, please don t, it like really stresses me out because I literally got caught.
3
SPEAKER_00
He would still do it.
3
SPEAKER_00
It stressed me out so much.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I think the shoplifting thing is that I was so young, like I would never do it now,
3
SPEAKER_00
You would have to, even if you paid me, I don t think I would take the risk.
3
SPEAKER_00
But there was something about that age where I think I just literally, I don t know, there was like a big misunderstanding of the consequences.
3
SPEAKER_00
But did you get a little high from it?
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God, I loved it.
3
SPEAKER_00
It started just with like, oh cool, I got away with it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then I got addicted to that.
3
SPEAKER_01
This is interesting because I don t think of you as a rule breaker or anything, but I think you do, you like
3
SPEAKER_01
unknown situations.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s true.
3
SPEAKER_01
Hence are the double date.
3
SPEAKER_01
Right.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like it doesn t not add up.
3
SPEAKER_00
Look, if I were recruited, if someone was like, we re going to do this, you re not going to have to worry about rent.
3
SPEAKER_00
If someone pitched me on it and that I like them, I would probably.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think you.
3
SPEAKER_00
First, I d be scared.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then if we did it once and it went well and I like and like probably just keep doing it.
3
SPEAKER_00
I wouldn t want, like, people to get killed.
3
SPEAKER_00
I could probably justify in my mind if we were stealing from people who deserve to be- Big corporations.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
Who deserve to be- Even though I- You disagree.
3
SPEAKER_00
I disagree.
3
SPEAKER_00
You do.
3
SPEAKER_00
You do.
3
SPEAKER_01
Me and you, we feel differently on this, but that s okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
What if you find out, though, that I have a big stake in Frito-Lay?
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, you ruined my life.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I wouldn t like that.
3
SPEAKER_01
No.
3
SPEAKER_01
You don t know who you re affecting.
3
SPEAKER_01
It could be someone else s Monica.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re right.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, oh, hello there.
3
SPEAKER_01
We have a guest in the attic.
3
SPEAKER_01
What are you guys doing up in there?
3
SPEAKER_01
We re recording.
3
SPEAKER_02
No, I ain t in.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh.
3
SPEAKER_01
We re talking about organized crime.
3
SPEAKER_02
Oh my gosh, one of my favorite topics.
3
SPEAKER_01
Remember, on a fact check, we talked about this, and I couldn t figure out the phrasing.
3
SPEAKER_01
Callie s first day question.
3
SPEAKER_02
Oh, yeah, right, right, right, right.
3
SPEAKER_01
And the phrasing is, if you were a part of an organized crime, what would it be?
3
SPEAKER_03
Family or organization?
3
SPEAKER_01
Not necessarily.
3
SPEAKER_01
So you went mob.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, of course.
3
SPEAKER_01
But, you know, I went art heist.
3
SPEAKER_01
Liz is in a big chips.
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SPEAKER_01
She s stealing from Frito-Lay.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think we have to close the, is the door closed?
3
SPEAKER_03
Oh, man, it s packed.
3
SPEAKER_01
It never closes now.
3
SPEAKER_03
Oh, man, this place is really going hard.
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SPEAKER_03
The Empire s crumbling.
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SPEAKER_01
No it s not.
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SPEAKER_03
It s the late days of Rome.
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SPEAKER_01
Maybe somebody else s organized crime is to take us down.
3
SPEAKER_03
Oh, a lot of people would be incentivized.
3
SPEAKER_01
Sure.
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SPEAKER_01
Anyways, she s taking down Frito-Lays.
3
SPEAKER_03
I got kind of excited that you were saying she had just co-opted the plot of Chips.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, sorry.
3
SPEAKER_03
And I would have felt very flattered by that.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_03
But now we re just talking regular old potato chips.
3
SPEAKER_00
Sorry.
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SPEAKER_00
But don t be careful.
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SPEAKER_00
They re a big part of her life.
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SPEAKER_03
Is that your very favorite food group?
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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SPEAKER_00
That was how I got immediate relief and, like, happiness and connection.
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SPEAKER_03
Regulation.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay, I feel like I had that via TV, but did you have full access to TV all the time?
3
SPEAKER_01
No, and even the fact that you had access to Dunkaroos.
3
SPEAKER_03
Is Dunkaroos Dunkin  Donuts?
3
SPEAKER_01
No, it s the snack food.
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SPEAKER_01
It had a little bit of icing and then these small cookies.
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SPEAKER_01
Cookies.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh.
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SPEAKER_01
In the shape of dinosaurs.
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SPEAKER_03
And they were called Dunkaroos?
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SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_03
Oh, and you were encouraged to dunk them in milk?
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SPEAKER_03
Is that the reason it was?
3
SPEAKER_00
No, in the icing.
3
SPEAKER_00
In the icing.
3
SPEAKER_03
Oh, okay.
3
SPEAKER_03
Sorry, the icing was separate.
3
SPEAKER_03
I thought it was already on.
3
SPEAKER_00
No, you would dip it, and it was called a snack, but it was really just a dessert.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I have a theory that the kids who weren t allowed to have sweets in the house, or chips, or Dunkaroos, it became this contraband.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, it became the drug of choice, because it was like, I can t— Forbidden fruit.
3
SPEAKER_00
I can have it.
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SPEAKER_00
And so maybe that s why you don t think it s, like, if you have a bag of chips in front of you, like, you can think about something else.
3
SPEAKER_00
I can t, because I m like, oh my God, they re chips.
3
SPEAKER_03
I relate deeply to that, because we would be with my mom at my house for two weeks straight.
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SPEAKER_03
We had a gallon of milk, and then you got a box of cereal for those two weeks.
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SPEAKER_03
She had to make it last.
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SPEAKER_03
No soda, no chips, no cookies.
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SPEAKER_03
We d go to my father s house, who was a bachelor, and it was just stocked full of every soda, every chip.
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SPEAKER_03
We were allowed to order pizza.
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SPEAKER_03
So my brother and I were like people exiting the desert after months and months.
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SPEAKER_03
And we like learned to eat that way.
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SPEAKER_03
Like, oh shit.
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SPEAKER_01
It s a scarcity mentality.
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SPEAKER_03
Devour.
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SPEAKER_03
And he and I both have this capacity to overindulge in a way that I think has to have something to do with that.
3
SPEAKER_03
Or we d go to my grandparents and they had the same kind of loot.
3
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
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SPEAKER_00
And you have no scarcity mentality.
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SPEAKER_03
She s abundance.
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SPEAKER_01
Food?
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SPEAKER_01
I don t really.
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SPEAKER_01
Also because I, as we ve talked about so many times, I m extremely wasteful.
3
SPEAKER_01
So if I don t finish something, I feel in my head, I can buy this again tomorrow.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t have to eat this right now because I can have it again tomorrow if I want.
3
SPEAKER_01
Unless I m in another state.
3
SPEAKER_01
So like when I m in New York, I eat
3
SPEAKER_01
so much more than I do when I m home, because it is scarcity mentality.
3
SPEAKER_01
I can only have this restaurant when I m in New York, and it s so rare, so I have to eat all the pasta.
3
SPEAKER_03
You have acute scarcity, and we have chronic scarcity.
3
SPEAKER_01
Right.
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SPEAKER_01
I think I have practical scarcity mentality.
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SPEAKER_01
It s like it actually is... Is true.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
That you re not gonna come back.
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SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
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SPEAKER_00
Because I, at dinner in New York, you were kind of going to my pace and I was like, oh my god, this is so exciting.
3
SPEAKER_00
We were sharing fries and eating cake and you got like all the desserts and I was like, oh my god, I don t feel like I m eating the entire thing and I gotta like slow down.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think this is dysmorphic.
3
SPEAKER_01
You order small, you ordered like taquitos.
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SPEAKER_01
I eat quick and I eat like it s about to fall off the table.
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SPEAKER_01
As someone who s eaten with you a lot, I ve never felt that ever.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s funny.
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SPEAKER_01
I feel that.
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SPEAKER_01
And I wonder why you feel that.
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SPEAKER_01
It must come from old days.
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SPEAKER_00
I m a little self-conscious when we re sharing things because you don t… You re like going to take one bite and then talk for… And then I m like, this is going to be embarrassing where I m going to overeat and then she s going to notice and… Like I… Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_03
Also, maybe I wonder if we share this, which is like, Monica, if you re sharing any given dish with somebody, it doesn t enact this like panic, does it?
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SPEAKER_03
Like if you re sharing, if there s like eight pieces of pizza, in fact, that s a bad example, because clearly both people get four.
3
SPEAKER_03
It s when something s kind of loosey goosey, or you re taking scoops out of something, or it s artichoke dip.
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SPEAKER_01
Yes.
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SPEAKER_03
When you re sharing, do you start thinking like, oh fuck, I got to get my share.
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SPEAKER_01
I generally don t have that.
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SPEAKER_01
Again, because I know if I didn t get enough, I can say, can we get one more?
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SPEAKER_01
Can we get one more?
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SPEAKER_01
And I pay normally in these cases.
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SPEAKER_01
So I feel fine about that.
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SPEAKER_01
But for the most part, I don t have that.
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SPEAKER_01
My brother actually with him, I have it.
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SPEAKER_03
So I was gonna suggest that, so your sibling was so much younger than you, you were so dominant.
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SPEAKER_03
My brother was five years older, so it was like someone shot a starter pistol, and it was like, go!
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_03
And he could out-consume me, and I wasn t gonna get my share, and it was unjust.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_03
But I do wanna enter yet another thing into this debate, which is my children, who if any two people have grown up in abundance, it s them.
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SPEAKER_03
There is always multiples of anything they would ever want, but Delta,
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SPEAKER_03
Has it.
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SPEAKER_03
If Lincoln goes and grabs a fry off her plate, she s like, you have to ask me.
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SPEAKER_03
Like she panics.
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SPEAKER_01
Is that more a respect thing though?
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SPEAKER_03
We talk about it quite a lot and she shares her feelings, which you know she s quite articulate at doing.
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SPEAKER_03
And no, she has this genetic scarcity thing.
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SPEAKER_03
So it s interesting.
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SPEAKER_00
Me and my sister is the same thing.
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SPEAKER_00
I m Delta and my sister s Lincoln.
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SPEAKER_00
All of you are talking about birth order as well.
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SPEAKER_03
Sure.
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SPEAKER_03
Right.
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SPEAKER_01
Younger.
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SPEAKER_01
And that I think has something to do with it.
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SPEAKER_01
But also Delta is not scarcity mentality at all when it comes to like money or if she shares shit all the time.
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SPEAKER_01
Like she s always like giving off her little squishy, you know, she like she s not hoarding of the things she cares about.
3
SPEAKER_01
So maybe it s specifically food.
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SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I was gonna say, I don t think those things are mutually exclusive because I would think of myself as quite generous and sharing as well.
3
SPEAKER_03
But food, Monica, what you were saying, like, yeah, I ll order an artichoke dip.
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SPEAKER_03
And then if I need another one, I ll order that.
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SPEAKER_03
That s very logical.
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SPEAKER_03
Clearly, I could do that too.
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SPEAKER_03
Weirdly, here s how I have to do that.
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SPEAKER_03
I actually have to do that beforehand.
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SPEAKER_03
So if I m going to go through drive-thru and I want french fries and I ask everyone in the car what they want and no one wants fries, I say, if you guys are going to start asking for my fries, I d rather just buy you fries.
3
SPEAKER_03
No, we re not going to want them.
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SPEAKER_03
I know they re going to.
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SPEAKER_03
So I preemptively order two fries.
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SPEAKER_03
I can t like, so if I even had the inkling that someone was going to eat more than half of the spinach artichoke dip, I d have to order two from the get go.
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SPEAKER_03
Cause I can t even be at ease while it s happening.
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SPEAKER_00
I did that literally on Friday.
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SPEAKER_00
I ordered, I wanted fries.
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SPEAKER_00
I was at this group dinner and I ordered two because I was like, I don t want, and then they didn t even eat their fries.
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SPEAKER_00
And again, I was like, I don t understand how you don t like their fries in front of you and don t eat them.
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SPEAKER_00
And so I ended up eating both.
3
SPEAKER_03
How about this?
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SPEAKER_03
I m such a routine person.
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SPEAKER_03
So in the morning I brew my coffee.
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SPEAKER_03
It sits with a lid on it while I meditate.
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SPEAKER_00
and then I m allowed to start drinking it as I start journaling.
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SPEAKER_00
And I m only allowed that one cup of coffee in that setting.
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SPEAKER_00
And occasionally, Kristen will walk by and she ll like smell the coffee and she ll go, oh, can I have a sip?
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SPEAKER_00
And I go, sure.
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SPEAKER_02
Oh my God, Max.
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SPEAKER_00
And you guys, it s like insufferably painful.
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SPEAKER_00
Why?
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SPEAKER_00
Because she takes a sip and I m like, the whole thing s fucked up now.
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SPEAKER_00
It s already not enough.
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SPEAKER_00
I m already on a diet for the coffee and now it s less than even the,
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SPEAKER_02
And it s painful.
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SPEAKER_02
You hear, right?
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SPEAKER_02
I know you do.
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SPEAKER_00
I m telling it knowing it s ridiculous.
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SPEAKER_00
I know, I know.
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SPEAKER_02
It s because, and this is across the board of everything we re talking about, it s a stranglehold on life.
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SPEAKER_02
It s like, oh my God, if this goes even slightly off kilter, the whole thing s fucked up.
4
SPEAKER_02
That s not reality.
4
SPEAKER_02
Things go off kilter all the time.
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SPEAKER_02
Everything s fine.
4
SPEAKER_00
That is an objective truth.
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SPEAKER_02
But I m saying you gotta practice that.
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SPEAKER_00
Well, surely, I hope I ve gotten better.
4
SPEAKER_00
But again, if you grow up and a lot of really unexpected turns are happening all the time, and your baseline is expecting the shoe to drop, and for some crazy step backwards to happen,
4
SPEAKER_00
You start getting really controlling about these little things and you get very superstitious.
4
SPEAKER_00
Athletes are all this way.
4
SPEAKER_00
Any endeavor where there s a high probability of failure, I think you get increasingly more controlling and superstitious.
4
SPEAKER_02
I get where it comes from, and I have compassion for that, tons.
4
SPEAKER_02
But also now, it s just about... Transcending all that?
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, like that s over.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I don t desire to have my morning ruined by giving someone one sip of my coffee.
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SPEAKER_00
I see the absurdity, and it s not comfortable, and I m not proud of this behavior.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s also certain people, I don t think Kristen does this, but certain people do trigger these very specific emotions.
4
SPEAKER_02
And so, like I said, my brother will trigger something that no one else on earth will trigger.
4
SPEAKER_02
And he does that.
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SPEAKER_02
When we re at like a dinner and he s just eating off the shared thing and not paying attention at all to the amount everyone else is getting, I have my own story about him.
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SPEAKER_02
He s not paying attention.
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SPEAKER_00
He s not conscientious.
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SPEAKER_02
Exactly.
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SPEAKER_02
Which he is, but I have this idea about him from being a child.
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SPEAKER_00
A baby.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_02
That is not fair to him, but that I project in all of our circumstances and all of our interactions.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I have that with some other people in my life as well.
4
SPEAKER_02
So it s not really how I feel blanketly, but certain people will just shine a light.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
And food is so like,
4
SPEAKER_01
primitive.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s the part that feels maybe uncontrollable or reveals kind of the most primitive parts of us.
4
SPEAKER_01
I mean, with sex, it s the number one.
4
SPEAKER_01
Food is more important than sex, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
You ll die out of food before you die from not having sex.
4
SPEAKER_00
Speak for yourself.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s kind of a funny joke, Monica.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s fine.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know what I learned this week?
4
SPEAKER_01
Of all of the senses, touch is the only one that is necessary for survival.
4
SPEAKER_01
You won t die if you lose your sight, or obviously it can create obstacles, but touch, you will die.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s like the most essential.
4
SPEAKER_00
How did this conversation start?
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, it was the Callie question.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s a good first date question.
4
SPEAKER_02
Look what happens.
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SPEAKER_00
This is the perfect place to ask, because it feels very gendered.
4
SPEAKER_00
Murder.
4
SPEAKER_02
Mm, very gendered, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
When you think of these crimes that you might commit, does the thought of killing a very, very bad person, is it undesirable, neutral, or desirable?
4
SPEAKER_02
How bad are they?
4
SPEAKER_02
What have they done?
4
SPEAKER_00
Like Hitler, Stalin, Putin.
4
SPEAKER_00
Right now, when you present me with the notion, like when you say to me, Dax, we ve arranged this, you can go into a eight by eight room with Vladimir Putin,
4
SPEAKER_00
you have an hour and nothing will be held against you.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m very excited about that proposition.
4
SPEAKER_00
I would love to kill that man and get him the fuck away from all the humans that he s destroying.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like I actually desire that in a way I would desire any other pleasurable thing.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I m wondering if you guys have that gear.
4
SPEAKER_02
I mean, I want them, there are people I wish were no longer living.
4
SPEAKER_02
Do I wanna be the person doing it?
4
SPEAKER_02
I have no desire for that.
4
SPEAKER_02
The act of killing is undesirable.
4
SPEAKER_00
What if it s you hit a switch and like a comically big cartoon anvil falls on his head and you just had to hit the switch?
4
SPEAKER_02
I just know it does not matter how bad a person is.
4
SPEAKER_02
If I know I m responsible for anyone s death on this earth,
4
SPEAKER_02
That would be hard for me.
4
SPEAKER_00
In my mind, it s so clearly framed.
4
SPEAKER_00
I d be responsible for saving literally a million people.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s a very few acts you could do in life where you d be saving a million people.
4
SPEAKER_02
I know.
4
SPEAKER_02
I want that.
4
SPEAKER_01
I want somebody else to do it.
4
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
4
SPEAKER_01
Even if you think about the person you hate the most in the whole entire world?
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t hate very many people.
4
SPEAKER_01
Or what if, like, it was, like, my rapist?
4
SPEAKER_01
Or like someone had done harm to... Delta.
4
SPEAKER_01
Delta.
4
SPEAKER_01
What if like a man had hurt Delta?
4
SPEAKER_01
Because that to me like triggers that bear moment.
4
SPEAKER_02
Well, if I saw it, I would kill them.
4
SPEAKER_02
If I could stop a thing... With a murder.
4
SPEAKER_02
With a murder.
4
SPEAKER_02
If I was like walking in on that and I could kill the person, yes, I would.
4
SPEAKER_02
But it s like after the fact, because I just really just rather them just go to jail for life.
4
SPEAKER_00
I remember having an audition for The Last Airbender, one of these movies I hadn t read any of the books, I didn t understand any of it.
4
SPEAKER_00
And the vernacular was so sci-fi, I didn t know what I was saying.
4
SPEAKER_00
I could not relate.
4
SPEAKER_00
But it was a moment where I had caught the person and I was basically gonna torture them, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
And none of it made sense.
4
SPEAKER_00
I couldn t figure out how to do this.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then all of a sudden I just had the idea, and this was before Osama bin Laden had been killed.
4
SPEAKER_00
I was like, ooh, what would my disposition be like if I was in a room with Osama bin Laden
4
SPEAKER_00
tied to a chair.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I realized quickly, it would be elation.
4
SPEAKER_00
I would enjoy so much that I have you.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then I was like, oh, I kind of understand how to do this.
4
SPEAKER_00
But anyways, in thinking of that, I was really kind of recognizing that there are certain people that it d be beyond just doing a service.
4
SPEAKER_00
I d actually be quite excited to exact justice on them.
4
SPEAKER_01
Me too.
4
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I also like revenge.
4
SPEAKER_00
Jonah Nolan was here and he was saying like one of the most classic archetypal American stories we love is revenge.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s why he wrote Memento.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s a bad side of us.
4
SPEAKER_02
It also is weird coming from you because I feel like the reason I m not like that is because
4
SPEAKER_02
of being close to you.
4
SPEAKER_02
Over time, understanding people in a different way, and that everyone has a reason they are the way they are.
4
SPEAKER_02
I put a lot less blame on people in general, so I don t have this sense of like, they re innately bad, or I should enact revenge on this person.
4
SPEAKER_02
I m like, I m lucky that I m not.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s more, I just feel more gratitude now, and it s definitely from knowing you.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m happy to hear that.
4
SPEAKER_00
And by the way, no, no, no, no.
4
SPEAKER_00
But listen, I think we re still in lockstep.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like, I am actually not in favor of a punitive jail system.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
That we re not trying to rehabilitate them or we re not removing them just for the safety of other people.
4
SPEAKER_00
But there s this third category, which is like, we re going to make them suffer because they made us suffer.
4
SPEAKER_00
I actually disagree with that.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I agree with you.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s like,
4
SPEAKER_00
on this huge spectrum of personality types or people types on planet Earth.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, 97% of them I m not judgmental of, and I m not seeking justice or revenge.
4
SPEAKER_00
But I definitely believe that there is a set of people whose true objective is to cause as much suffering and pain and annihilation.
4
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And the protector in me goes like, that person has to be removed.
4
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I am with you on, I want that person removed.
4
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But would I get personal pleasure?
4
SPEAKER_02
No.
4
SPEAKER_02
And would I even get... Oh, God.
5
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God, this is going to sound so bad.
5
SPEAKER_02
This is going to be good.
5
SPEAKER_01
And people are probably going to be mad at me for this, but it s the truth.
5
SPEAKER_01
When Osama bin Laden, when he was killed, I was relieved.
5
SPEAKER_02
They couldn t plot anymore.
5
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I was really glad that Obama carried that out.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I was on a plane.
5
SPEAKER_01
We like landed and they announced it.
5
Wow.
5
SPEAKER_01
It was cheering.
5
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s not my reaction to that.
5
SPEAKER_02
Right.
5
SPEAKER_02
It felt like a Colosseum style.
5
SPEAKER_01
A bit.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s like, I know, like, evil, but I don t believe in evil deeply, so it s hard for me to just rejoice.
5
SPEAKER_01
I just will never rejoice over someone s death, even if I hate them.
5
SPEAKER_02
That s a good quality.
5
SPEAKER_01
Maybe now that I m thinking about it, there s a sense when everyone is in that mode, everyone s cheering over someone s demise, there s always a sense of, what if that was me?
5
SPEAKER_01
Or that could be me?
5
SPEAKER_01
And of course it can t, I m not gonna, I m not gonna like Osama bin Laden the world.
5
SPEAKER_00
You have so much empathy, you like identify with Osama bin Laden.
5
SPEAKER_02
You re very much on to something.
5
SPEAKER_02
It scares me.
5
SPEAKER_02
Implicit in the cheering was, he was other.
5
SPEAKER_02
It would have been more complicated.
5
SPEAKER_02
Like, I don t think people, when Timothy McVeigh was killed, they didn t cheer.
5
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They should have.
5
SPEAKER_02
So if I were you and I were brown in this country, I d go, that s a little adjacent to them getting into a crowd mentality and going, you know what, all these brown people need to go.
5
SPEAKER_01
Exactly, like at any moment, could everyone decide to turn on me.
5
SPEAKER_00
And even there was criticism, when they killed Gaddafi, there was criticism, like, just the photos that were released of him, bloody, like, that if it had been a white man, they wouldn t have published these kinds of accounts, and there s a dehumanizing quality to it.
5
SPEAKER_00
And again, cheering.
5
SPEAKER_00
I understand the impulse.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, in a way, we re doing what they did to us.
5
SPEAKER_00
Exactly!
5
SPEAKER_00
We re not being the bigger person.
5
SPEAKER_00
There s a hypocrisy as well.
5
SPEAKER_00
They cheered death, and now we re cheering.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s a really good point.
5
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I think I was lucky in this way.
5
SPEAKER_02
I was in Bleaker Street Pizza, whatever that is, 7th and Bleaker Street or something.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I passed it the other day.
5
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All of a sudden we heard cheering from like a bar next door.
5
SPEAKER_02
And so my first thought was like, oh, someone just won the Stanley Cup or some football game or some soccer.
5
SPEAKER_00
Someone won something.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_02
That s appropriate time to cheer.
5
SPEAKER_02
And then it started spreading.
5
SPEAKER_02
And it started spreading to such a degree that we left Bleaker Street to go look at the TV
5
SPEAKER_02
From where I was standing, I don t know, 30 blocks from the attack.
5
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I loved it.
5
SPEAKER_02
It felt like for New Yorkers, it was this very cathartic release of, oh good, that person did pay for the pain they caused all of us.
5
SPEAKER_02
And I guess I didn t even let myself imagine it was happening around the country.
5
SPEAKER_02
Of course it was, now that you say it, or on an airplane.
5
SPEAKER_02
But for me, I was like in New York.
5
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I was happy for those people.
5
SPEAKER_02
It was like this huge release they had been carrying that this person was still out there.
5
SPEAKER_01
What you just said is interesting, right?
5
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there were people that cheered when the towers went down, and that s just their circumstance.
5
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Like, a lot of people are born into some crazy circumstances that lead them to this place where they re excited about a takedown of us, and then, I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_01
Where were you when Osama Bin Laden was killed?
5
SPEAKER_00
In Denmark, I think.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, wow.
5
SPEAKER_00
It was 2011.
5
SPEAKER_00
No, so I was in London.
5
SPEAKER_00
I don t really recall.
5
SPEAKER_00
You weren t in the United States.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Not yet.
5
SPEAKER_00
Everyone was talking about it there, but— Or maybe— I feel like I was on a Greyhound bus on my way to— Like, I— I was in transit, and I remember seeing— There were, like, celebrations at the— You know, outside the White House or something, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
Like— And then the situation photo— But there was no cheering.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think that was very American.
5
SPEAKER_00
People were shouting, like, USA, USA, outside the White House.
5
SPEAKER_00
I feel like I remember that and thinking that was weird.
5
SPEAKER_00
Also, like, you didn t do, like, I don t know, it s like a sports match.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yes, it became sports.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it was us against them.
5
SPEAKER_01
Anyway.
5
SPEAKER_01
Okay, I think we should do some questions.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
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Okay, this is relevant with our guest.
5
SPEAKER_01
How do I adapt to my newly sober bestie who not only changed the vibes but also triggers me?
5
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This is from Emily.
5
SPEAKER_01
Hi Liz and Monica, longtime listener, first time caller.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m writing for help with an evolving relationship.
5
SPEAKER_01
I have a kindred spirit friendship that is going on 10 years now.
5
SPEAKER_01
She s a fellow Libra and someone who I met and instantly connected with deeply.
5
SPEAKER_01
We were like sisters and our convos were always so intense and mostly healing.
5
SPEAKER_01
Over the past four years, she s gone through some trauma on her side and as a result has decided to stop drinking.
5
SPEAKER_01
She s the first to admit she had no problem with the hooch, but thought she d give it up to see if that helped her overall mood, marriage, and mental state.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m proud of her for doing this, but also have to admit our hangouts have changed.
5
SPEAKER_01
Having wine and gabbing was a big part of our friendship, but not the center of it.
5
SPEAKER_01
We were always going on adventures, traveling, and seeing concerts, but now everything feels a bit more muted.
5
SPEAKER_01
She shares less, leaves early, and in some ways seems to act a bit superior for not drinking.
5
SPEAKER_01
I feel triggered by this and a bit judged.
5
SPEAKER_01
I have a great, casual relationship with drinking, so I can t envision why someone would give it up if they didn t need to.
5
SPEAKER_01
A Sunday Funday is a blast.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I also have sober family members, so I should be cool with this.
5
SPEAKER_01
That said, why am I so sad that I may never have another cocktail with her again?
5
SPEAKER_01
Am I rude in feeling it s performative?
5
SPEAKER_01
I know I should be supportive, but things have changed and I feel sad about it.
5
SPEAKER_01
I miss her old hangs.
5
SPEAKER_01
Am I a total dick?
5
SPEAKER_01
No, you re not a total dick.
5
SPEAKER_01
No.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s hard when major pieces of a friendship shift.
5
SPEAKER_01
I ve thought about this.
5
SPEAKER_01
Me too.
5
SPEAKER_01
Although we drank and then you stopped.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Do you think it changed our hangs?
5
SPEAKER_00
It didn t change it for me, but I was like, is she still going to want to hang out as much?
5
SPEAKER_00
This might be wrong, but I felt like maybe I didn t get invited as much.
5
SPEAKER_00
If you guys were going out, more in group, not one-on-one, but I was like, oh, they re getting drinks, and so then they re probably not gonna invite me.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think you get invited maybe less.
5
SPEAKER_00
My gut reaction to that is maybe she wasn t that interesting.
5
SPEAKER_00
It seems like you really liked her when she was drinking, and now you might just not get along.
5
SPEAKER_00
She might not be as interesting as you thought she was.
5
SPEAKER_00
Because if I m drinking or not drinking, it didn t change my relationships.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it surprised me, actually.
5
SPEAKER_00
I thought I would be having less fun, but I wasn t.
5
SPEAKER_01
But you stay out, even for you, don t you think it changed?
5
SPEAKER_01
You leave when you re ready to leave, which is at a normal time, earlier than people who are drinking.
5
SPEAKER_02
For sure.
5
SPEAKER_02
You re getting further and further adrift in the experience that people are having.
5
SPEAKER_02
But it took me 10 years to do what when you met me I did.
5
SPEAKER_02
Well, maybe not 10 years, maybe six or seven years, I felt this obligation to hang as late as I always did and prove that I hadn t become lame or this or that.
5
SPEAKER_02
And it was Andrew Panay who I became friends with him and Andrew has never drank in his life.
5
SPEAKER_02
So like observing how he s like, the bar is a terrible hang after 9pm.
5
SPEAKER_02
I don t want to be there.
5
SPEAKER_02
Everyone s repeating themselves and they re like really effusive and they don t even mean it the next day.
5
SPEAKER_02
And to see the clarity by which he was evaluating the situation without any of the baggage, I was like,
5
SPEAKER_02
Oh yeah, that s the anatomic truth of the situation.
5
SPEAKER_02
I no longer need to feel like I ve become a stick in the mud because it s not enjoyable to me.
5
SPEAKER_02
The thing I hear most in there, and I hope she doesn t feel attacked by this, is, I feel judged, she s superior.
5
SPEAKER_02
Those are your issues.
5
SPEAKER_02
So, if your friend stopped eating vegetables, and every time you were out, you were eating vegetables and she wasn t, you would never feel judged by it.
5
SPEAKER_02
You would never feel like she thought she was superior because you know
5
SPEAKER_02
Your truth is vegetables are nothing to feel ashamed of.
5
SPEAKER_02
So to me, it s a little bit telling that you would so easily feel judged or that someone could feel superior.
5
SPEAKER_02
It makes me have a little suspicion that you yourself aren t dead certain on your conviction about it.
5
SPEAKER_01
That makes sense to me, but it can feel odd to be drinking
5
SPEAKER_01
when somebody else is not, it does feel like there are more eyes on you.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like, I ve noticed that.
5
SPEAKER_01
Not with you, but if I m around people who are sober, not drinking, and others are, I m hyper-aware of their, like, kind of clocking.
5
SPEAKER_02
nobody s really even thinking about your drinking.
5
SPEAKER_02
Unless they themselves have some really complicated situation with it and they have recently quit and they re struggling with it.
5
SPEAKER_02
But like, I have no idea what glass of wine you re on.
5
SPEAKER_02
I never think in my head ever, oh, she s drinking or she s not drinking.
5
SPEAKER_02
I don t think about it at all, but I think it s quite easy to feel like or assume other people are thinking that.
5
SPEAKER_02
It s just really presuming to know a lot about what the other person s thinking.
5
SPEAKER_02
And if you guys are best friends of 10 years, you should be in a place that you could say, I m feeling really judged or that you feel superior and you can have this talk.
5
SPEAKER_02
My hunch is she s going to go, no, I m just not on that elevated dopamine level with you.
5
SPEAKER_02
So I m not as effusive, but nothing s going on.
5
SPEAKER_00
I do think that there s something going on.
5
SPEAKER_00
Maybe it s extremely online.
5
SPEAKER_00
There is this superiority.
5
SPEAKER_00
Shaming.
5
SPEAKER_00
I became sober and, you know, there s someone like pushing it on you.
5
SPEAKER_00
Callie s sober.
5
SPEAKER_00
There s like a new face.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_00
And you can totally not drink and that s awesome and it s great that it s had all these amazing effects in your life.
5
SPEAKER_00
You re not saying you should do it too, but the subtext is that you re better and what you re doing or you re choosing to do is sort of better than other people.
5
SPEAKER_00
So maybe there s an error
6
SPEAKER_01
of that going on.
6
SPEAKER_01
Maybe she s taking it in from, like, the culture, but it s not specific to that friendship.
6
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I think it s, like, an interesting question.
6
SPEAKER_01
It is.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like, should people be encouraging other people to be sober?
6
SPEAKER_00
No.
6
SPEAKER_02
Well, I don t think this person is, by the way, but just now we re on, like, an interesting tangent.
6
SPEAKER_00
And again, we are filling in some blanks.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like if someone s posting, like day 39 of sober, my skin s never looked better.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like you are interpreting that as them telling you, you should do it.
6
SPEAKER_00
But unless they re saying everyone should do this, or I don t know why people do this, you are just inferring a lot.
6
SPEAKER_00
So it gets really tricky.
6
SPEAKER_00
I think we re really susceptible to feeling judged and feeling less than, but I think that s because we re all judging ourselves quite harshly and we re really hard on ourselves.
6
SPEAKER_02
But also, just getting back to her feelings, I think it s totally, totally normal to be sad when a friendship dynamic changes.
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah.
6
SPEAKER_02
It s extremely disturbing.
6
SPEAKER_02
Like, it... Scary.
6
SPEAKER_02
It s scary.
6
SPEAKER_02
It shakes the foundation of your life.
6
SPEAKER_02
Like, it s hard.
6
SPEAKER_02
I really sympathize with that.
6
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_02
Maybe you talk to her and it gets resolved and it s fine.
6
SPEAKER_02
But if you are feeling uncomfortable drinking around her, maybe that isn t the person you go to drinks with when they can t drink.
6
SPEAKER_00
You don t invite your friend to your bowling league if they don t bowl.
6
SPEAKER_02
Exactly.
6
SPEAKER_02
And do other stuff that is still fulfilling to both of you where you re not going to get triggered in this way.
6
SPEAKER_00
I ve told you the story when we were all at Aaron s house and they ran up to get beer and we were probably 23 or 4 out in the middle of nowhere and then two of the dudes came back on foot and they re like, oh, we got pulled over Aaron got arrested for DUI.
6
SPEAKER_00
And my truth in that moment was, oh no, Aaron s going to quit drinking.
6
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
This is what happens.
6
SPEAKER_00
You get a DUI and you quit drinking.
6
SPEAKER_00
He called from the police station so we could pick him up.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I m like, you okay?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
Pause.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I go, are you going to quit drinking?
6
SPEAKER_00
And he goes, fuck no.
6
SPEAKER_00
I was like, oh my God.
6
SPEAKER_00
Thank God.
6
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m going to come pick you up.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that s the truth of where I was at, which is like, this is our thing.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s a big part of our foundation.
6
SPEAKER_00
Now, with all that said, I was sober, or I had not drank for 15 years while he still did.
6
SPEAKER_00
And we still talked and hung out and loved each other.
6
SPEAKER_00
Definitely, we couldn t go down these roads we had in the past.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then whatever, now he s sober, so who knows?
6
SPEAKER_00
I remember having a full panic about his DUI, selfishly, just that he was not gonna drink anymore.
6
SPEAKER_02
I thought, like, okay, if I decide to stop drinking, how is that gonna affect some of the relationships in my life that involve a lot of drinking?
6
SPEAKER_02
It s real.
6
SPEAKER_02
It is real.
6
SPEAKER_02
And it will affect.
6
SPEAKER_02
Yes, exactly.
6
SPEAKER_02
Like, that s just the truth.
6
SPEAKER_02
So, I think it s okay to be sad and you re not a dick.
6
SPEAKER_02
It sucks when things change.
6
SPEAKER_02
And friendships morph all the time.
6
SPEAKER_02
It s hard.
6
SPEAKER_02
Right.
6
SPEAKER_02
Okay, let s do one more.
6
SPEAKER_00
I like this format.
6
SPEAKER_02
Really good questions.
6
SPEAKER_00
Really.
6
SPEAKER_00
Hey y all, really great questions.
6
SPEAKER_02
Such a gift.
6
SPEAKER_02
Oh.
6
SPEAKER_00
Is it a sexy one?
6
SPEAKER_02
No, it s kind of funny.
6
SPEAKER_02
Okay, do I tell my partner that I don t like his new laugh?
6
SPEAKER_02
This is from Katie.
6
SPEAKER_02
New laugh?
6
SPEAKER_02
This is from Katie.
6
SPEAKER_02
Hi Liz and Monica, thanks for reading.
6
SPEAKER_02
Your show is so special and helps me feel connected to a long distance bestie.
6
SPEAKER_02
We both listen and then share our thoughts regularly.
6
SPEAKER_02
Oh, that s so sweet.
6
SPEAKER_02
Anyway, I m happily partnered with my boyfriend of four years.
6
SPEAKER_02
We just bought a house together, and I feel truly grateful to know and to be able to love him.
6
SPEAKER_02
He s incredibly smart, thoughtful, funny, and attractive.
6
SPEAKER_02
However, I ve noticed in the last few months that his laugh has changed and that it sounds exactly like his best friend s laugh.
6
SPEAKER_02
They spend time each week on the phone while playing video games, et cetera, and I think he s unknowingly started to parrot, take on this new characteristic more and more over time.
6
SPEAKER_02
I don t like the laugh, maybe because it sounds less genuine or maybe because it s a very distinctive sound and reminds me of his friend.
6
SPEAKER_02
Do I tell him?
6
SPEAKER_02
How do I bring it up without hurting his feelings or being rude about his friend?
6
SPEAKER_02
XOXO, appreciate any advice you can offer.
6
SPEAKER_00
Do you know, Monica, 1 in 20 of the comments that I read on our feed are about people going, at what point did Monica and Dax develop the same laugh?
6
SPEAKER_00
I read it today.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, people are like, when did their laugh become the same laugh?
6
SPEAKER_02
Oh, that s weird.
6
SPEAKER_02
I don t notice that at all.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t either, but I can t imagine 1 in 20 people are lying.
6
SPEAKER_02
I think I have different laughs.
6
SPEAKER_02
Remember when we had Jimmy Fallon on and he said I have multiple laughs and he could like do them.
6
SPEAKER_01
Oh, wow.
6
SPEAKER_02
Your laughs have multitudes.
6
SPEAKER_01
My laugh often has changed over the years with, again, who I m hanging out with the most.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I ll notice it and I think it s so cute.
6
SPEAKER_00
It is.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s beautiful.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s so cute that you start laughing like
6
SPEAKER_00
You re sharing a language.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_02
I know, but I m gonna take, okay, I could definitely see myself being rubbed really the wrong way by this situation.
6
SPEAKER_02
One, if it s in a new lap that I find actually just sounds annoying, that s gonna be hard for me.
6
SPEAKER_02
But also, I would feel what you re saying, Dax.
6
SPEAKER_02
Like, you re just becoming another person so easily.
6
SPEAKER_02
You re taking on this other person s trait.
6
SPEAKER_02
It s scary.
6
SPEAKER_02
And it is a little scary, and it s a little like,
6
SPEAKER_02
unattractive when someone is so malleable.
6
SPEAKER_02
And it s like, who are you though?
6
SPEAKER_02
If your laugh can change just from being around that person or if you re, because this happens a lot too, right?
6
SPEAKER_02
Where you re around someone a lot and you start taking on each other s like words and phrases.
6
SPEAKER_00
You get the famlicon going.
6
SPEAKER_02
Familect, yes.
6
SPEAKER_02
That s Wendy s word.
6
SPEAKER_02
It s sweet if you re in it, but it is not sweet if you re on the outside of it.
6
SPEAKER_02
Well, for one, you might feel left out, so that could be a piece of it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yes, I think it speaks to your insecurity of going like, oh, this person s forming a special thing with somebody.
6
SPEAKER_00
They re evolving to match them.
6
SPEAKER_00
They re not evolving to match me.
6
SPEAKER_02
To match me, yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
Well, would you agree with this?
6
SPEAKER_00
The perfect human that doesn t exist, but the totally self-actualized, very self-confident, their own self-esteem,
6
SPEAKER_00
A laugh is a laugh.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t know that you can say one s annoying and one s not.
6
SPEAKER_02
No, some are annoying sounding.
6
SPEAKER_00
Listen, some people have objectively insane laughs, but when you love them, you actually love it more.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s true, that s true.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t think you could ever say objectively a laugh is good or bad, right?
6
SPEAKER_00
That s right, that s right, yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s like, what s attached to it?
6
SPEAKER_00
And I think for you, Monica, that makes so much sense.
6
SPEAKER_00
I could definitely see how you, that that would be a reaction.
6
SPEAKER_00
Because it s scary that this person
6
SPEAKER_02
That s the perfect way to say it.
6
SPEAKER_02
Well, I think you have baggage around, when is the shoe gonna drop?
6
SPEAKER_02
An unstable environment.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_02
I do too.
6
SPEAKER_02
Not in my family home.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yes, you desire great security.
6
SPEAKER_02
I had a lot of, when am I gonna get dropped?
6
SPEAKER_02
When am I gonna get excluded?
6
SPEAKER_02
When am I gonna- Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_02
And at any moment, it can happen.
6
SPEAKER_02
And so I also walk through the world with that same thinking.
6
SPEAKER_02
And so I need safety.
6
SPEAKER_02
I need security.
6
SPEAKER_02
I need to know this is the person.
6
SPEAKER_02
If all of a sudden they start laughing weird and saying weird stuff, it makes me feel unstable.
6
SPEAKER_00
A thousand percent.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I m totally sympathetic to it and compassionate.
6
SPEAKER_00
I just think it s really fun.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s really, I love hearing the questions and I love talking about them because when they re not your issue, to me, they feel very clear.
6
SPEAKER_00
And it reminds me, it s like all my issues with other people are my issues.
6
SPEAKER_00
They re my insecurities.
6
SPEAKER_00
Really people s behavior is like so neutral.
6
SPEAKER_01
There s a whole episode of Friends about it.
6
SPEAKER_01
Chandler s laugh, right?
6
SPEAKER_01
That he has a work laugh, and then it really bothers her, and then it s like a whole episode.
6
SPEAKER_01
And the subtext in that episode is like, she feels like he s a different person, that he s different than what he presents to her.
6
SPEAKER_01
He s laughing at jokes that she doesn t think are funny.
6
SPEAKER_02
Or that he doesn t normally or wouldn t.
6
SPEAKER_01
And it s kind of early in their relationship, and she has to kind of adjust to the work him.
6
SPEAKER_01
Basically, it s not about the laugh.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s about his identity, right?
6
SPEAKER_01
he s a little bit different when he s around work people than he is with her, and so she has to kind of take that in and sort of accept it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Well, you know an extreme example of it that I experienced a couple times, which is really illuminating, is I ve had Black friends who code switched in front of me, and I had this moment where I was like, oh my God, do I know the real person?
6
SPEAKER_00
Are they putting on this facade for me, and that s the real them, and I don t actually have access to the real them?
6
SPEAKER_00
What it really did is just flare up all this insecurity in me that because I m not black, I won t really know the real them or I won t share the thing they share.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I thought the thing we had was very real and legit.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then of course realizing like, that s all my fear that maybe this person isn t gonna like me in a way I hope they would.
6
SPEAKER_00
Have you had that?
6
SPEAKER_01
I have two friends that aren t white and I was friends with both of them separately.
6
SPEAKER_01
And now we ve been hanging out, the three of us, and I m like, oh, have I just not really... And then if I m not there, how is it?
6
SPEAKER_00
And you feel guilt somehow?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yes, of course.
6
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, like, oh my God, this person thinks I won t like them if they re not this... Or I don t know if it s as conscious as that.
6
SPEAKER_02
I think it s more, there s something when you re around someone who has the same background as you, it s not, I m going to code switch or I m going to switch into this mode.
6
SPEAKER_02
It s just the pheromones.
6
SPEAKER_00
Well, right.
6
SPEAKER_00
And the truth is like having not seen the friends episode, but I m sure Monica, she would be inclined to go though.
6
SPEAKER_00
The work laugh is phony.
6
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
6
SPEAKER_02
That s what happens.
6
SPEAKER_00
Or conversely, even more scary, the me laugh is phony and that s the real laugh.
6
SPEAKER_00
But of course people are just multifaceted.
7
SPEAKER_00
And all of them are genuine and real.
7
SPEAKER_01
I had dinner with Elizabeth and Andy last night, and Elizabeth had listened to our episode with Patrick, the diagnosed sociopath, and she said that she appreciated that I was during it.
7
SPEAKER_01
I was like, oh, God, am I a sociopath?
7
SPEAKER_01
Because I do that.
7
SPEAKER_01
I wear masks.
7
SPEAKER_01
Again, not consciously, but my relationship with every single person is different.
7
SPEAKER_01
So I m going to be
7
SPEAKER_01
slightly different in every situation.
7
SPEAKER_01
I think that s normal.
7
SPEAKER_01
Then she said, Andy is not like that at all.
7
SPEAKER_01
Because she was saying she s like that.
7
SPEAKER_01
But then Andy s just who he is... No matter where he s at.
7
SPEAKER_01
No matter what.
7
SPEAKER_00
This makes me think of something for the first time.
7
SPEAKER_00
So we had all this growing stress of me joining your connections group.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
There were some hurdles.
7
SPEAKER_01
I heard about it.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
What I never considered, and I don t know if you have, is like, so you had a lot of anxiety about it, understandably, and we talked about all that, that s all been hashed out.
7
SPEAKER_00
But what might be interesting is, I wonder if there was any voice in your head that was like, oh boy, he s gonna observe me in this other context where I m a different person.
7
SPEAKER_00
It was all focused on me mostly, but I wonder if any of it was also you, like, I ve gotta now bridge who I am with him and who I am with my childhood friends.
7
SPEAKER_01
Maybe.
7
SPEAKER_00
I have some of that with you.
7
SPEAKER_00
Like if Aaron, the three of us are together, I am dialing back for sure some stuff that I know would offend you or make you feel scared.
7
SPEAKER_00
Not only am I altering it, but I m also have two degrees of anxiety that Aaron won t know that that s something that shouldn t be said.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m dealing with a totally different culture in Detroit.
7
SPEAKER_00
And so, yeah, when I mash these together, I have a little anxiety.
7
SPEAKER_01
so many pins, but I would hope you wouldn t say something that would offend me, not just because I was there.
7
SPEAKER_01
My hope is that me being in your life is just going to make you less likely to do that.
7
SPEAKER_01
Is that totally not real?
7
SPEAKER_00
I can see that that would be your desire, but also you and I disagree on something.
7
SPEAKER_00
Like I just saw Andrew Schultz comedy.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s spectacular.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s so racist.
7
SPEAKER_00
But there s something about his intention and his awareness of all of it and his actual friendship group and who he s touring with.
7
SPEAKER_00
Like he s walking the walk.
7
SPEAKER_00
He enjoys the stereotypes of the different neighborhoods he grew up in.
7
SPEAKER_00
All of his friends mutually agree to it and enjoy it together.
7
SPEAKER_00
I enjoy it.
7
SPEAKER_00
You don t enjoy it.
7
SPEAKER_00
I don t feel like a racist because I laugh at that.
7
SPEAKER_00
But I know that you and I are never gonna watch Andrew Schultz and you re never gonna laugh the way I do at him.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s just scary.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I understand the stakes are higher for you.
7
SPEAKER_00
And it s a privilege that I can consume it without that.
7
SPEAKER_00
But to me, there s a bunch of funny stuff that still has to do with our racial differences, our sex differences, all these things.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s still very amusing to me.
7
SPEAKER_00
But I know that s never gonna be something you re gonna enjoy or laugh at.
7
SPEAKER_00
And so, of course, I m not gonna want Aaron to bring in some bit of comedy we both enjoy that you re not gonna enjoy.
7
SPEAKER_00
Does that make sense?
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
Your preference would be that I don t even think Andrew Schultz is funny.
7
SPEAKER_01
Or that you can see it a bit differently when you have someone in your life.
7
SPEAKER_01
I mean, by the way, I don t know anything about Andrew Schultz.
7
SPEAKER_01
Maybe I would find it super funny.
7
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
7
SPEAKER_01
But in general, because as we said earlier, I feel that my perspective on life
7
SPEAKER_01
is different based on our proximity.
7
SPEAKER_01
And I would hope that it would be- Reciprocated?
7
SPEAKER_01
Reciprocated, yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
And it very much has.
7
SPEAKER_01
In your life, the thing I m bringing to the table is a race thing.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it has changed me dramatically and there s a ton of things I ve altered my behavior and I would not feel good doing anymore But just to specifically talk about Andrew Schultz because I think it s relevant He s performing in Taiwan to 8,000 Taiwanese and he is talking about if he get invaded by China that we re gonna have to come help and he says to them guys will be happy to help and
7
SPEAKER_00
I m a little nervous about us knowing who s who.
7
SPEAKER_00
The level of laughter among the Taiwanese is enormous.
7
SPEAKER_00
So I m not seeing a victim there.
7
SPEAKER_00
Now, if he was telling that joke to all white Americans saying, we re going to have to go to Taiwan to bail them out of China, how are we going to know the difference?
7
SPEAKER_00
The fact that he brings it right to their doorstep, they like it a lot.
7
SPEAKER_00
They re dying laughing and he s doing a ton of stereotype jokes directly to them.
7
SPEAKER_00
And they enjoy it as I enjoy watching Barbie and getting made fun of for being a man.
7
SPEAKER_00
I recognize that I m in a position of power where it s easier for me to laugh at myself.
7
SPEAKER_00
But the point is, is that Andrew goes to all these people and does it directly to their face and they love it and they come by.
7
SPEAKER_01
Laughing at yourself is different than laughing at others.
7
SPEAKER_00
But he s not Taiwanese, but he can still make an observation for them that they themselves find very funny.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s fine.
7
SPEAKER_01
That doesn t bother me.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yes, it would bother me if he was in a room full of white people making that joke.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s, to me, racist.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m only pointing out that, like, you have a relationship with it that I respect and I honor.
7
SPEAKER_00
And then someone else that s Indian is going to have a totally different level of what they think is offensive or that they might enjoy.
7
SPEAKER_00
And so I don t think there s a baseline of how everyone is taking it.
7
SPEAKER_00
By the way, all these Taiwanese people, they re the majority.
7
SPEAKER_00
He s talking to them in their country.
7
SPEAKER_00
They re the majority.
7
SPEAKER_00
They aren t the oppressed.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s what I m saying, though.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m agreeing with you that his joke there is fine.
7
SPEAKER_01
His joke, if he did that in America with a bunch of white people, if he made that same joke, like you said,
7
SPEAKER_01
is not fine.
7
SPEAKER_02
But if most of his audience is white Americans, then, like, he is making the joke, right?
7
SPEAKER_02
Like, the physical audience is Taiwanese people, but the audience for the special is Americans, right?
7
SPEAKER_00
Well, I don t know.
7
SPEAKER_00
I mean, clearly he s huge in Taiwan.
7
SPEAKER_00
He tours the world and he s huge everywhere.
7
SPEAKER_00
He sells out 15,000 seat theaters around here.
7
SPEAKER_00
And his thing is, when he came to the forum and he s in Hollywood, he blasts Hollywood.
7
SPEAKER_00
He s lined it all up, all the things we do that are silly, that are worth making fun of, and he just blasts us, and everyone in the audience that s from Hollywood is laughing at themselves, which is very cathartic and fun.
7
SPEAKER_00
And then he goes over to Boston, he calls them fucking racist, and he lets them have it about their stereotype.
7
SPEAKER_00
And the people there genuinely are getting a lot of joy out of it.
7
SPEAKER_00
Now, all these things just on paper, you re not allowed to do.
7
SPEAKER_00
And by the way,
7
SPEAKER_00
A ton of comedians trying to do the same thing and they suck and it s not working.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s very fascinating.
7
SPEAKER_00
They re doing similar material, but there s something about the intention.
7
SPEAKER_00
There s something about being in on it with them, living amongst, there s just so much nuance in it.
7
SPEAKER_00
And so it s interesting, like if you were Taiwanese and we were best friends and that stuff made you uncomfortable, I would respect that.
7
SPEAKER_00
But yet then I m looking at this group of people who clearly loves him, bought tickets to him and is going to buy tickets to him over and over again.
7
SPEAKER_00
I can t say to them, them wrong for loving being made fun of by him.
7
SPEAKER_00
I just think it s very complicated and I think there s room for like, I got no problem adjusting how I am to not hurt someone I love s feelings.
7
SPEAKER_00
But I don t think the commitment would be that I pretend I don t think that routine he did was funny.
7
SPEAKER_02
Well, what have you learned from being friends with Monica?
7
SPEAKER_02
What has changed?
7
SPEAKER_00
Oh, there s so many.
7
SPEAKER_00
The reality of the singular representation being Apu and how traumatic that was for everyone and there was a child during that, I can see the pain.
7
SPEAKER_00
I can see the dynamic of her being the only brown person in a group and someone makes a joke.
7
SPEAKER_00
that makes her very uncomfortable and then she has to let them off the hook and soften their guilt and nurture them after they ve done this thing.
7
SPEAKER_00
I see that whole cycle and it s a heartbreaking bummer.
7
SPEAKER_00
And of course I go back in my mind, I play these times where that happened a bunch around me and I just didn t do anything, say anything, think anything about it.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s changed how I raise my kids.
7
SPEAKER_00
I think there s a ton of stuff that I ve become very sympathetic to.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
Do you feel like there s ever been a time where I m not there?
7
SPEAKER_01
That you re involved in something or you see something that you in your head is like, ooh.
7
SPEAKER_01
that s probably not good, that you wouldn t have thought was not good before.
7
SPEAKER_00
For sure.
7
SPEAKER_00
And also, let me say, again, this is the line we re talking about.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s like, I see some comedians trying to do what Schultz does, and they can t.
7
SPEAKER_00
I see the other people do it, and I m like, no, they re just hateful.
7
SPEAKER_00
You can sense it.
7
SPEAKER_00
So I think, and you might disagree with me on this, but I can delineate between someone saying something funny
7
SPEAKER_00
And someone saying something mean-spirited and disparaging and with the underlying superiority.
7
SPEAKER_01
I can, too.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s the point of living as a minority.
7
SPEAKER_01
You figure out what s hateful and what s not because a lot of things are coming at you.
7
SPEAKER_01
But the problem is, it s not about the actual person.
7
SPEAKER_01
Like, again, Andrew Schultz, I don t know.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s hard for me to speak on him because I just don t know anything about him other than that Taylor Swift video, which I liked.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s why I specifically sent you that one.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
And I m sure I would find a ton of his stuff very funny.
7
SPEAKER_01
You know, when Chappelle left The Chappelle Show.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
And he had been doing all this extremely racial comedy.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, black KKK member.
7
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
7
SPEAKER_01
And like, he loved it.
7
SPEAKER_01
He didn t have a problem with it.
7
SPEAKER_01
He said the reason he had to leave is he was able to hear the sound of the laughter of the white people in the room, and he recognized it.
8
SPEAKER_01
oh, he can make those jokes and he knows what s behind it, but that person who s laughing doesn t and is now extrapolating all the worst parts of it.
8
SPEAKER_01
And that s the problem with some of this comedy, which again, I can find very funny, but I can see in the audience and I can hear the laughter of people who don t get the layers of it and are just now using it as racist fodder.
8
SPEAKER_00
This is like the age old Howard Stern debate.
8
SPEAKER_00
And he himself and Gary Delibonte on the show will acknowledge this, which is like, they re doing a very elevated thing, but yes, it s appealing to this very simple guttural thing.
8
SPEAKER_00
And sometimes they re at gas stations and someone yells something and they go, they aren t getting it.
8
SPEAKER_01
that can be dangerous.
8
SPEAKER_00
My position on that is that person s that person.
8
SPEAKER_00
We re blaming Stern that they re misinterpreting Stern.
8
SPEAKER_00
I disagree.
8
SPEAKER_00
They re that way.
8
SPEAKER_00
They re going to find whatever dog whistle-y thing they re going to find.
8
SPEAKER_00
And to hang it on somebody who is clearly doing something intentional, I don t know that I agree that they have to be responsible for the worst person interpreting it the worst way.
8
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I agree with you there.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s just how are people choosing to use their
8
SPEAKER_01
platforms and it can be funny and it can be comedic and you can have parts of that.
8
SPEAKER_01
But as long as I hope you as a comedian can recognize, Oh, there are people here who are not getting it.
8
SPEAKER_01
And so for those people, is there a way for me to try to position this so that they do, or if you don t give a fuck, you don t give a fuck.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_00
It might be more about, do you think you have that power to make that person a different person?
8
SPEAKER_00
Cause I think that s beyond the limits of what we can do.
8
SPEAKER_02
I mean, some people do comedy in order to change minds, and if it s a minority of people who just don t get it, but to Dave Chappelle s point, if you re hearing that laughter louder, then it says something about your comedy or what you re doing.
8
SPEAKER_02
He s like, I can t be a part of this.
8
SPEAKER_00
As I remember him retelling it, yeah, he was in the editing room and he actually was like, they re laughing in the wrong place.
8
SPEAKER_00
They re laughing at this part that s actually not the funny part of it.
8
SPEAKER_00
They re just laughing at the thing that s ostensibly racist.
8
SPEAKER_00
You can get really broad with it and go like, yes, somebody has murdered someone to Blackbird by Beatles for whatever reason they got out of Blackbird that they should murder someone or all the assassins who have been reading Catcher in the Rye when they caught them.
8
SPEAKER_01
That s not the same as someone making funny but on the line racist jokes and then racists are like, yeah, that s different than extrapolating from Blackbird.
8
SPEAKER_00
Well, what I m saying is that someone, well, not someone, several people read Catcher in the Rye and were like, we need to assassinate this famous person.
8
SPEAKER_00
I can t blame Catcher in the Rye for that.
8
SPEAKER_00
I gotta blame the people that took that from Catcher in the Rye.
8
SPEAKER_00
It s not the same.
8
SPEAKER_00
Okay, that s apples to oranges.
8
SPEAKER_00
I guess I m just talking about like art in the interpretation of art.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but when your art is part of it is making racist jokes or racial jokes.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s just more dangerous.
8
SPEAKER_01
Like there was something in Catcher in the Rye.
8
SPEAKER_01
I don t know, but it wasn t explicit enough that any one of us can read it and be like, I get it.
8
SPEAKER_01
We don t get it.
8
SPEAKER_01
Right.
8
SPEAKER_01
But we get how these jokes would make someone racist or make someone s beliefs.
8
SPEAKER_01
get more indoctrinated.
8
SPEAKER_02
But if you re going to be towing that line, you have a higher responsibility, I think, to make sure that your art is good and that it s airtight and that people don t misinterpret it.
8
SPEAKER_02
Again, I haven t seen the special either, but I would hope that he s going the extra mile in order to make good comedy that can t be misinterpreted.
8
SPEAKER_02
I think the better that you are at it, the less people will be confused about what it means.
8
SPEAKER_01
I mean, he s the one who texted me.
8
SPEAKER_01
I know.
8
SPEAKER_01
You had an Andrew Schultz event.
8
SPEAKER_01
I had an Andrew Schultz event.
8
SPEAKER_00
He texted you?
8
SPEAKER_00
Oh, you went on a date.
8
SPEAKER_00
We never went on a date.
8
SPEAKER_00
Oh, you didn t go on a date.
8
SPEAKER_02
No, but because he texted me, white men don t get enough credit for inventing feminism.
8
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
That s a good joke.
8
SPEAKER_02
It wasn t a joke, though.
8
SPEAKER_02
We, like, got into a whole— Anyway, whatever.
8
SPEAKER_02
We re friendly and seen each other since, but I kind of want to watch it.
8
SPEAKER_02
I have to watch it in order to know how I feel about it.
8
SPEAKER_01
Well, anyway, did we answer it?
8
SPEAKER_01
No.
8
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
8
SPEAKER_01
Are we still on the laugh?
8
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
8
SPEAKER_01
I thought we did.
8
SPEAKER_01
We did.
8
SPEAKER_01
Well, her question is, should she say anything?
8
SPEAKER_01
I think it s worth mentioning.
8
SPEAKER_01
What would you say?
8
SPEAKER_02
I would make a joke.
8
SPEAKER_02
I knew you were going to say that.
8
SPEAKER_02
I always want to make jokes at things, which is not healthy.
8
SPEAKER_02
I knew you were going to say, like, passive aggressively make a joke about it.
8
SPEAKER_02
No, just laugh about it.
8
SPEAKER_02
Be like, oh my God, your laugh is so funny.
8
SPEAKER_02
Like, did your laugh change?
8
SPEAKER_02
Like, I would just make it light and then go from there.
8
SPEAKER_02
Because it is, like, silly, you know?
8
SPEAKER_02
And I think making it super serious— I mean, I think your answer is great What I would probably do is make a joke about it
8
SPEAKER_00
And then I would get defensive.
8
SPEAKER_00
I d feel stupid.
8
SPEAKER_00
You ve just made fun of my new laugh.
8
SPEAKER_00
This thing I m doing to be closer to this person I like.
8
SPEAKER_00
Now I m embarrassed and self-conscious.
8
SPEAKER_00
And my reaction is like, okay, I can t do that laugh around her.
8
SPEAKER_00
So now you ve set up a situation where it s like, I ve created a boundary where you re not going to be yourself.
8
SPEAKER_00
There are safe zones of being you and there are not safe zones being you.
8
SPEAKER_00
And so your big victory is he ll still have the laugh, just not around you.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
I would say either bring it up or just understand what s happening with you and then let it go.
8
SPEAKER_01
Agreed.
8
SPEAKER_00
It could be just I accept that this is his laugh and I see it for what it is and he wants to be closer to this guy.
8
SPEAKER_01
I can t believe our laughs have morphed.
8
SPEAKER_00
One in 20 people believe they re identical.
8
SPEAKER_01
That is so bizarre.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
I think it happens.
8
SPEAKER_01
I think it s cute.
8
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s also just musical.
8
SPEAKER_00
You re fusing a bit.
8
SPEAKER_00
It s nice.
8
SPEAKER_01
I wonder if it happens, though, when we re apart.
8
SPEAKER_01
Or is it just that when actual laughter is happening, it s morphing?
8
SPEAKER_00
By the way, there s probably like a deep evolution instinct to match and mimic your in-group.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, for sure.
8
SPEAKER_00
We all do it.
8
SPEAKER_01
Because you don t want to like stand out.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, like if you re in a playground and your laugh is like, and that s your real laugh, you re out.
8
SPEAKER_00
You re fucking gone.
8
SPEAKER_00
You are, you are dead.
8
SPEAKER_00
No one s ever gonna tell you a joke again.
8
SPEAKER_00
It s like survival.
8
SPEAKER_01
Ew, ew, ew.
8
SPEAKER_01
Well.
8
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
8
SPEAKER_00
See, look how nervous you guys are.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I don t like it.
8
SPEAKER_00
There s like a ram in here or something.
8
SPEAKER_01
Oh man.
8
SPEAKER_01
All right.
8
SPEAKER_01
Well, that is it for today.
8
SPEAKER_01
Thank you, Dax, for joining us.
8
SPEAKER_00
I have a little anxiety might the whole thing about Andrew Schultz hurt your feelings.
8
SPEAKER_01
Oh, no, it didn t.
8
SPEAKER_00
OK.
8
SPEAKER_01
I thought you re going to see that anxiety that people might be upset and they might.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, people will be upset.
8
SPEAKER_01
That s fine.
8
SPEAKER_01
This is the way it all goes.
8
SPEAKER_01
And it s good to have different opinions in this world.
8
SPEAKER_01
I stand by that.
8
SPEAKER_01
Okay, next week we re going on a double date.
8
SPEAKER_00
Fun.
8
SPEAKER_01
And it s very up in the air.
8
SPEAKER_00
Both people blind?
8
SPEAKER_01
Yes, Liz is picking a person and then telling them to bring a single friend.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
8
SPEAKER_01
So that s how this is going.
8
SPEAKER_01
We picked Liz s person today.
8
SPEAKER_00
Okay, but have you already been on a date with the person?
8
SPEAKER_00
No.
8
SPEAKER_00
Okay, great.
8
SPEAKER_00
So it is a first date for you and a first date for the lucky bachelor who s joining.
8
SPEAKER_01
So, I don t know if we ll get to this by the time we record again.
8
SPEAKER_00
This is a great idea.
8
SPEAKER_02
Right?
8
SPEAKER_00
Isn t it kind of fun?
8
SPEAKER_00
It s a great idea.
8
SPEAKER_02
If someone plays tennis and he s an instructor slash therapist and we go on that date, shouldn t we play tennis, do a doubles match as a first date?
8
SPEAKER_02
Isn t that fun?
8
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
8
SPEAKER_00
No, that would be like inviting the date to do a podcast with Monica.
8
SPEAKER_00
Oh, it s his job.
8
SPEAKER_00
Like, watch me be fucking great at something.
8
SPEAKER_00
and you feel completely insecure and shitty.
8
SPEAKER_00
And I m in a position of like authority.
8
SPEAKER_00
I know why that appeals to you with your kink.
8
SPEAKER_00
That s quite obvious.
8
SPEAKER_00
Very transparent.
8
SPEAKER_01
But also I don t think you can talk well.
8
SPEAKER_01
I think just in general, it s a bad idea.
8
SPEAKER_00
The only version that Monica would be up for is go sit in a professor s classroom.
8
SPEAKER_00
That s the date where she would just observe the professor be sexy.
8
SPEAKER_01
Oh, okay.
8
SPEAKER_01
He makes me take a test.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_00
Oh, with your shirt off.
8
SPEAKER_01
All right, well, if there s any professors out there who want to engage in this activity.
8
SPEAKER_00
But this is a brilliant idea.
8
SPEAKER_01
I know, I m excited.
8
SPEAKER_00
I ve heard you several times say what you often like about certain boys is that you re yourself around them.
8
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
8
SPEAKER_00
So to me, it s like a shortcut to your primary connection will be one that keeps you yourself.
8
SPEAKER_01
I know.
8
SPEAKER_01
I think it ll be great.
8
SPEAKER_01
I think we re going to marry these people.
8
SPEAKER_01
I hope so.
8
SPEAKER_00
The only, all right, now I m going to predict a potential conflict ahead, which is what s also interesting is you re going to see each other on a date.
8
SPEAKER_00
you re not gonna be able to help but go like, oh, Liz does that thing.
8
SPEAKER_01
Well, it s like the laugh.
8
SPEAKER_00
And then Liz, yes.
8
SPEAKER_01
Maybe we have a date laugh.
8
SPEAKER_01
Date Liz and date Monica.
8
SPEAKER_00
That s right.
8
SPEAKER_00
And you might be going like, Monica s being more bristly than she really is.
8
SPEAKER_00
Why isn t she being more open?
8
SPEAKER_00
These are my predictions of what might happen.
8
SPEAKER_00
And then you ll come back in here and you ll rehash this date.
8
SPEAKER_00
And ostensibly it ll be about these guys, but I think ultimately it s probably going to be about your guys  date personas.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
8
SPEAKER_00
I love that.
8
SPEAKER_01
Not very many people get the privilege of seeing someone else s date persona.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s true.
8
SPEAKER_01
I ve never seen anyone else s date persona.
8
SPEAKER_01
All right.
8
SPEAKER_01
Well, anyway, not sure if this will happen by the time- Why do you want to end this?
8
SPEAKER_00
This is so fun.
8
SPEAKER_00
Why are you trying to land the plane?
8
SPEAKER_00
We just hit 30,000 feet.
8
SPEAKER_00
I don t want to go to bed.
8
SPEAKER_01
So you.
8
SPEAKER_01
We were in the airport in Austin or India or something.
8
SPEAKER_01
It was silent for like seven seconds.
8
SPEAKER_01
Not long at all.
8
SPEAKER_01
And Dax said, what else can I talk about?
8
SPEAKER_01
It s very endearing it was a moment where I really was like, this is a little boy this little boy
9
SPEAKER_00
He s in a big gray body, but he is an eight-year-old boy.
9
SPEAKER_00
Mom!
9
SPEAKER_00
What else can we talk about?
9
SPEAKER_00
I used to drive my parents crazy in the car because I would just talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and I just wanted to keep talking and at one point my mom was like, no more talking.
9
SPEAKER_00
Well, you found both of your dream jobs.
9
SPEAKER_00
You re right, you re right.
9
SPEAKER_00
It totally fits.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s such a gift.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay, well we are wrapping it up and we will be back next week.
9
SPEAKER_00
Maybe we ll have been on the date, maybe not, but it s coming.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s coming.
9
SPEAKER_00
Alright, see you next week.
9
SPEAKER_00
Bye.
9
SPEAKER_00
Winter is coming.