0
SPEAKER_00
I m a writer and endings are difficult.
0
SPEAKER_00
When I think about the ending of this story, I keep trying to find something poetic to put here in this final episode.
0
SPEAKER_00
Something that wraps it up neatly and puts a pretty bow on it because I want closure.
0
SPEAKER_00
Because I want to put it away.
0
SPEAKER_00
I ve been living in this story that this is the year that made me how I am.
0
SPEAKER_00
I ve said plenty about how losing Alicia affected me.
0
SPEAKER_00
Some part of me still wants Alicia to see me as someone special.
0
SPEAKER_00
But beyond losing Alicia, I can t deny that the way that our basketball season ended still means a lot to me.
0
SPEAKER_00
The irony is maybe even because of doing this show, now I do an NBA show.
0
SPEAKER_00
I m working with a couple of my high school teammates on that
0
SPEAKER_00
Doing this has resurrected basketball in my life to some extent.
0
SPEAKER_00
I can t put it down.
0
SPEAKER_00
I m still chasing the high of what it felt like to run with these guys on a state finalist basketball team.
0
SPEAKER_01
I remember how hard it was for people to get in.
0
SPEAKER_01
Because if you came to that game 30 minutes before tip, you weren t getting in.
0
SPEAKER_01
You know what I m saying?
0
SPEAKER_01
Like, the place was full.
0
SPEAKER_03
The gym was packed.
0
SPEAKER_03
It was jumping through the roof.
0
SPEAKER_03
It s 640.
0
SPEAKER_03
Our lines is tight.
0
SPEAKER_03
We are dunking on the rim, skying.
0
SPEAKER_03
You got the girls screaming your name.
0
SPEAKER_04
It s packed.
0
SPEAKER_04
Every home game.
0
SPEAKER_04
But just even going back to layup lines, you have to get in there because the layup lines was the show too.
0
SPEAKER_04
I m dunking crazy.
0
SPEAKER_03
I m dunking crazy.
0
SPEAKER_03
I m dunking crazy.
0
SPEAKER_04
And you peek your head to the opposite team, they looking at us to see what kind of dunks we doing.
0
SPEAKER_04
So we already got them before tip off.
0
SPEAKER_00
We went something like 30-2 on this run.
0
SPEAKER_00
We were whooping ass.
0
SPEAKER_00
There was a force of energy around us.
0
SPEAKER_00
It was a run to Comcast.
0
SPEAKER_00
We would break the huddle and say, one, two, three, Comcast, before each game.
0
SPEAKER_00
Listen to Theo talk about it.
0
SPEAKER_00
What do you remember from our experience going to Comcast?
0
SPEAKER_00
And what is Comcast?
0
SPEAKER_02
Comcast is like the big finals tournament like you ve seen on Hoop Dreams.
0
SPEAKER_02
We were fighting to be the best team in the state from our division.
0
SPEAKER_02
So when we get to Comcast, we won the first game against Largo, which was a big deal.
0
SPEAKER_02
I remember them talking, basically, you know Montgomery County team about to beat us.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s right.
0
SPEAKER_00
And we did beat that ass.
0
SPEAKER_02
We beat that ass.
0
SPEAKER_02
So the confidence is on 1,000 right now.
0
SPEAKER_02
We re feeling like, we re going to win the states.
0
SPEAKER_02
Just like we had unfinished business shirts at the beginning of the year, we knew we were supposed to win States.
0
SPEAKER_02
And I think one of the two times I cried in high school was losing at Comcast in the second game in States.
0
SPEAKER_02
Looking back, I still think we could have won that game.
0
SPEAKER_00
We made a run to the state championship and we lost.
0
SPEAKER_00
Fucking lost.
0
SPEAKER_00
Still kills me every day.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I mean, 40-year-olds are going to listen to this and be like, why are these dudes in their early 30s still hurt by this?
0
SPEAKER_00
Because you ve never been there.
0
SPEAKER_00
Right.
0
SPEAKER_00
It felt like it had the wrong ending.
0
SPEAKER_00
What did you learn from that adventure of going all the way to the top of the mountain and then falling off at the very top?
0
SPEAKER_03
I ll never forget leaving out the locker room.
0
SPEAKER_03
I was just in tears.
0
SPEAKER_03
I felt like we were just the best around, without question.
0
SPEAKER_04
One thing that comes to mind when I think about that game is just legacy.
0
SPEAKER_04
If you look back at Blake 05, second, are you kidding me?
0
SPEAKER_04
That s our legacy.
0
SPEAKER_04
When you walk into the gym, you re going to see the banner that don t say state champions.
0
SPEAKER_04
And I see that often because I worked at Blake, the building.
0
SPEAKER_04
as much as we want to tell guys that we were the champions, we re not.
0
SPEAKER_04
We re not the champions.
0
SPEAKER_00
Show me, where s your hardware?
0
SPEAKER_04
Right, where s your ring?
0
SPEAKER_04
And it hurts to this day that I m not sitting here at this round table with four rings right here.
0
SPEAKER_04
That s right.
0
SPEAKER_00
This was probably one of the first moments where I realized that how I was supposed to feel was not how I felt.
0
SPEAKER_00
I certainly felt disappointed that I wasn t gonna leave this experience with a championship ring, one that I no doubt would still be wearing to this day.
0
SPEAKER_00
It probably would get cooler year over year as I get older and look less and less like an athlete.
0
SPEAKER_00
But some of my teammates were devastated.
0
SPEAKER_00
They were sweaty.
0
SPEAKER_00
They had been out there on the floor.
0
SPEAKER_00
I still had my warm-up on.
0
SPEAKER_00
I felt flat.
0
SPEAKER_00
I felt unhelpful.
0
SPEAKER_00
I didn t feel what they felt.
0
SPEAKER_00
I felt like a phony.
0
SPEAKER_00
Felt like I was faking sadness.
0
SPEAKER_00
What I really felt was individual scarcity, sometimes part of a team and sometimes part of an entourage, sometimes a part of a culture and sometimes a hanger on.
0
SPEAKER_00
I wasn t on the floor.
0
SPEAKER_00
And that killed me because the man I looked up to the most, my father, he was always on the floor in high school.
0
SPEAKER_00
And basketball was our language.
0
SPEAKER_00
It was how we communicated.
0
SPEAKER_00
It was how we could understand each other.
0
SPEAKER_00
There was a particular night we had gone down to the Sugar Bowl.
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh, New Orleans.
0
SPEAKER_00
For the band, right?
0
SPEAKER_00
And as I remember it,
0
SPEAKER_00
we didn t give Coach Pigram a lot of notice that we were going down there because we knew Coach Pigram would sit me if he knew I was going to be taking time off.
0
SPEAKER_00
So when I came back, it was hard for me to get back into the rotation.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I remember one particular night I didn t play and you were upset probably the most,
0
SPEAKER_00
honestly the most frustrated that I ve seen you around basketball.
0
SPEAKER_00
And for context, I m going to tell everybody, you played ball in college.
0
SPEAKER_00
Basketball was a tool for you that did a lot in your life.
0
SPEAKER_00
So it s very important to you.
0
SPEAKER_00
But do you remember that night?
0
SPEAKER_00
I do.
0
SPEAKER_00
Can you describe that night and what was really going on?
0
SPEAKER_05
There was a game that I know it s going to be played by everybody but you.
0
SPEAKER_05
And I just remember talking to Coach Pilgrim afterwards.
0
SPEAKER_05
And what he told me was Chad never told me that he was going to the Sugar Bowl.
0
SPEAKER_05
So I think he was trying to be a coach and saying, just not show up.
0
SPEAKER_05
So yeah, but in my case, having played basketball, I ve been a point guard for my high school team, playing in college, always having control over my playing time.
0
SPEAKER_05
I mean, I m not trying to boast, but I was one of the best point guards in the city of Detroit.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_05
I knew what I could do, and I was not going to be benched.
0
SPEAKER_05
But to see your son not get a chance to show his skills, that s hurtful to a father.
0
SPEAKER_05
But at the same time, I never wanted basketball to be something that you felt like it s all or nothing, which is why we had you do so many other things.
0
SPEAKER_00
I don t want to bear down too much into this moment because it was a tough moment.
0
SPEAKER_00
And if you would rather this not go on the record, that is fine.
0
SPEAKER_00
But I do remember it was, I think, the first and only time I ever saw tears in your eyes.
0
SPEAKER_00
I think you were sad and angry.
0
SPEAKER_00
We were in the car together.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I remember that.
0
SPEAKER_00
In the garage.
0
SPEAKER_00
It was so human.
0
SPEAKER_00
Honestly, Dad, that s one of my fondest memories of you.
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh, really?
0
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
0
SPEAKER_00
I should have cried more often.
0
SPEAKER_00
Well, I felt like you were letting me in.
0
SPEAKER_00
And it was so real.
0
SPEAKER_00
It gave me permission to feel sad and angry, which sometimes I m going to feel.
0
SPEAKER_00
It made me as a kid feel like in that moment, I was like, man, I wish I could fix this for him, which is probably what you felt as a dad all the time for your kids, but it was just so human.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I ve always wanted to tell you, I really respected you in that moment because you were vulnerable.
0
SPEAKER_00
You showed it.
0
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_05
Well, it was one of those moments where
0
SPEAKER_05
I just felt for you.
0
SPEAKER_05
I didn t want you to be disappointed.
0
SPEAKER_05
I didn t want you to feel like you weren t given an opportunity that you had earned because you worked real hard.
0
SPEAKER_05
I mean, it was spontaneous.
0
SPEAKER_05
It just happened because I just felt so sad for you.
0
SPEAKER_00
The only time I have seen my dad cry was after a game in which I did not get to play, and he was very frustrated and very disappointed.
0
SPEAKER_00
So on one hand, I felt like it s kind of the coach s fault that he s crying, but it s really my fault.
0
SPEAKER_00
If I was better, if I was taller, if I was faster, if I had more skill, I would be out there and my dad wouldn t be crying.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I ve only seen him cry once.
0
SPEAKER_00
That leaves a mark.
0
SPEAKER_00
My dad wanted it so much for me, and he had put so much into it for me.
0
SPEAKER_00
And sports, I m talking about you, me, a lot of us.
0
SPEAKER_00
It was like our lives in a lot of ways.
0
SPEAKER_00
It was a job on top of school.
0
SPEAKER_00
And then it was also, I m probably the best person on this team at a lot of things, and none of those things matter.
0
SPEAKER_00
Like, the only thing that matters is who throws the alley-oop and who catches it.
0
SPEAKER_00
It doesn t matter that I can play the trumpet.
0
SPEAKER_00
It doesn t matter that I can write.
0
SPEAKER_00
Nobody knows.
0
SPEAKER_00
Nobody cares.
0
SPEAKER_00
And it s weird to be a part of something great and not be the catalyst for it.
0
SPEAKER_00
It s making me wonder, just as an example, would I rather be a writer on a show that wins an Emmy or have my own show that has a very small audience and nobody gives a shit about?
0
SPEAKER_00
and a lot of times I feel like honestly the latter is what I would rather have.
0
SPEAKER_00
I can t stop seeing myself as the skinny,
1
SPEAKER_00
short 10th man on the bench who couldn t go out there and put any kind of an impact on the actual game.
1
SPEAKER_00
I run into some of our younger guys who went to Springbrook.
1
SPEAKER_00
They won the chip.
1
SPEAKER_00
And even still, there s a respect.
1
SPEAKER_00
There s a presence that they command because they finished the job.
1
SPEAKER_00
We didn t finish the job.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I m still out here.
1
SPEAKER_00
I wrote a book, but I didn t make the New York Times bestsellers list.
1
SPEAKER_00
I made a podcast that got nominated for the thing, but it didn t win the thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
I sold a TV show that didn t get greenlit.
1
SPEAKER_00
There s a story that I tell myself that who I was as a 16-year-old, that s who I am now.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m still the guy who gets to the room but doesn t get the trophy.
1
SPEAKER_00
As much as I want the trophy, whatever that trophy is, what I want more is I just want to quiet that story in my head.
1
SPEAKER_00
I want that way more than I want the trophy.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t want to lose the memory of that season.
1
SPEAKER_00
I would love to lose the memory of that day.
1
SPEAKER_00
But even as I say that, I m like, if you woke up tomorrow without that memory, how would you feel?
1
SPEAKER_00
I would feel incomplete.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think that closes the book on the basketball elements of this, but there s still not finality here because so much as I feel a wanting to have the driver come and sit down with me and talk through the moments of that night, he did that already.
1
SPEAKER_00
He put it in that book for Alicia s mom, which was, I would say, incredibly gracious of him.
1
SPEAKER_00
I can understand why he doesn t want to come up here 20 years later and have this conversation with me again.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was ready to sort of close the book here.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I spoke to Dax and Monica, the other executive producers on this show.
1
SPEAKER_00
And every time we would submit one of these episodes, Dax and Monica would FaceTime me.
1
SPEAKER_00
And on almost every single episode, it was enthusiasm about what we d made, some ideas on how to tweak.
1
SPEAKER_00
And on episode eight, it was different.
1
SPEAKER_00
It was like a halt.
1
SPEAKER_00
There s something very important that s missing here.
1
SPEAKER_00
You don t get to make this show end where the punchline is, this is how Chad got closure and got to move on with his life.
1
SPEAKER_00
The point is not just to get something off of your chest.
1
SPEAKER_00
The point at the end of this, and these are their words, this needs to be a gesture.
1
SPEAKER_00
There s somebody missing here.
1
SPEAKER_00
And this person s story was missing the whole time.
1
SPEAKER_00
It was missing 20 years ago.
1
SPEAKER_00
It just like, poof, it just fucking disappeared.
1
SPEAKER_00
The person disappeared.
1
SPEAKER_00
Not the deceased, but the stabber.
1
SPEAKER_00
And she s a part of this too.
1
SPEAKER_00
She was doing teenager shit.
1
SPEAKER_00
She dated somebody on the football team.
1
SPEAKER_00
There was an issue with another girl in the parking lot.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was there.
1
SPEAKER_00
I had dating issues at that time.
1
SPEAKER_00
You heard my boy say, I could have got put down in front of my ex-girlfriend s house because I was popping off so crazy at a guy.
1
SPEAKER_00
We were all living this life, this frenetic, teenage, chaotic, hormonal life.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we were living it expansively.
1
SPEAKER_00
And what happened is, with the most distinct and human level of respect to the deceased and to her family, what happened is a teenager on the other side of this thing did something stupid and afraid, and she stabbed somebody, and that person was gone in minutes.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then they were both gone.
1
SPEAKER_00
The court s named the stabber Juliana.
1
SPEAKER_00
We can t lose her in this story.
1
SPEAKER_00
This story needs to be a gesture of grace to her as well.
1
SPEAKER_00
So let s go back to the facts for a minute.
1
SPEAKER_00
Here s part of the Washington Post article that came out after the incident.
1
SPEAKER_00
A 15-year-old girl was charged yesterday with second-degree murder in the death of a Montgomery County ninth-grade girl, who was stabbed after a high school football game Friday night, police said.
1
SPEAKER_00
Kenesha Neal, 15, died after being knifed in the parking lot of James Hubert Blake High School about 8.30 p.m., police said, during a fight between two groups of girls.
1
SPEAKER_00
Authorities would not release the suspect s name because she was charged as a juvenile, but they said she was an only resident who attended Sherwood High School in Sandy Spring.
1
SPEAKER_00
She s being held at a youth detention facility in Rockville.
1
SPEAKER_00
The whole time that I have been working on this project, this has always been the fear point, the dark spot.
1
SPEAKER_00
That person, she is out there somewhere, presumably back home where my people live.
1
SPEAKER_00
As we searched for her, I felt every time I asked someone, do you know anybody who knows something?
1
SPEAKER_00
Do you know someone who might know someone who might know someone?
1
SPEAKER_00
There was always a little, just a, ah, just kind of a, and I didn t want to push it because I just feel her.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t want to live in my worst moment for the rest of my life.
1
SPEAKER_00
But there s no way around it, man.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s that conflict of what do I owe myself?
1
SPEAKER_00
What do I owe my hometown?
1
SPEAKER_00
What do I owe this woman?
1
SPEAKER_00
What do I owe the craft as a writer, storyteller, journalist, whatever I m doing here?
1
SPEAKER_00
It s been conflict the whole way through.
1
SPEAKER_00
And there s been some moments where Dax and Monica have asked me, can you open up this conversation with this person?
1
SPEAKER_00
And I ve pushed back in some moments because I don t know if I want that in this.
1
SPEAKER_00
But on this one, they re right.
1
SPEAKER_00
You tried to talk to the driver and he didn t want to talk.
1
SPEAKER_00
You got to try to talk to the girl who did this.
1
SPEAKER_00
And when they said that, I felt this charge of energy.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was like, I m going to find her today.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I warned Dax and Monica every which way that I don t think I m going to be able to find her.
1
SPEAKER_00
I ve already seen that people aren t trying to tell me where she s at.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I knew I had to look.
1
SPEAKER_00
First, I called Principal Goodman.
1
SPEAKER_00
She said she thought she could connect me to one of the teachers at Sherwood.
1
SPEAKER_00
And for whatever reason, when she said Sherwood, it was like this light flashed in my head.
1
SPEAKER_00
Sherwood High School is synonymous with a guy who played quarterback at that school.
1
SPEAKER_00
He was also the shooting guard on the basketball team.
1
SPEAKER_00
When you think of a high school superstar, it s this guy.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then it clicked that one of my best friends plays on a men s basketball league with that other dude.
1
SPEAKER_00
So I texted my friend and he reached out to that guy, the guy who was leading Sherwood in whooping our ass that night when the stabbing happened.
1
SPEAKER_00
And it so happens that he had dated the young lady who committed that stabbing.
1
SPEAKER_00
And they re still in contact.
1
SPEAKER_00
He said he was willing to come talk.
1
SPEAKER_00
He was going to tell me about what happened that night, what happened thereafter, and what happened to quote unquote Juliana and who she became thereafter and what it was like for her being in detention and their relationship now.
1
SPEAKER_00
I told the guy, I said, hey man, I m so excited.
1
SPEAKER_00
I was going to tell him, yo man, I looked up to you back then.
1
SPEAKER_00
On some level, I was like, I can t even believe I have this guy s number.
1
SPEAKER_00
This dude was such an athletic hero around where we re from.
1
SPEAKER_00
I couldn t even believe I was going to get to interview him.
1
SPEAKER_00
At the end of the conversation, I said, hey, you know, if y all are still in contact, you and this woman, quote unquote, Juliana, then when you get in touch with her to tell her you re going to do this, could you ask her if she ll come on as well?
1
SPEAKER_00
He s like, yeah, I ll ask her.
1
SPEAKER_00
I got you, bro.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, I got you.
1
SPEAKER_00
Just the coolest, most polite dude in the world.
1
SPEAKER_00
That night, I researched what I could find about Juliana as a person.
1
SPEAKER_00
I found an appeals case document that mentions what she was like during her time inside juvenile detention.
1
SPEAKER_00
It said, Juliana continues to excel in the program and she s doing exceptionally well both behaviorally and academically.
1
SPEAKER_00
The entire treatment team has stated that it is a pleasure to work with Juliana and that she is a leader and a great help to the staff and the other girls in the program.
1
SPEAKER_00
Juliana has poured her energy into her education.
1
SPEAKER_00
She earned the credits necessary to graduate from high school.
1
SPEAKER_00
She competed in the Department of Juvenile Services Oratorical Contest and won first place.
1
SPEAKER_00
She is currently studying to take the SAT.
1
SPEAKER_00
I could see myself, like, if I were ever in there, objective one would be figuring out how to survive in there, and objective two would be figuring out how to learn and keep being creative.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is a good student.
1
SPEAKER_00
This is a person who wanted to learn and was good at performing.
1
SPEAKER_00
If that s who you are, that s what you are.
1
SPEAKER_00
It doesn t matter if you re in a jail cell.
1
SPEAKER_00
You re gonna do what you have to do.
1
SPEAKER_00
Her psychiatrist then wrote this to the court.
1
SPEAKER_00
Prior to the killing in September, Juliana had no history of delinquent behavior.
1
SPEAKER_00
She was an honor student with no involvement in antisocial activities.
1
SPEAKER_00
She enjoyed the role of peacemaker when others would squabble.
1
SPEAKER_00
She reported a close relationship with her mother and sister.
1
SPEAKER_00
Indeed, her mother visits twice weekly, never misses a visitation time.
1
SPEAKER_00
Juliana has not abused drugs.
1
SPEAKER_00
In essence, she displayed none of the risk factors for delinquency.
1
SPEAKER_00
Talking about the killing has been very difficult for Juliana.
1
SPEAKER_00
She s been very tearful.
1
SPEAKER_00
She clearly feels very badly about what happened.
1
SPEAKER_00
She continues to suffer from guilt.
1
SPEAKER_00
At this point, she is still struggling to figure out how she s going to live with her involvement in the killing.
1
SPEAKER_00
Clearly, her behavior during the incident does not fit with her values.
1
SPEAKER_00
She is able to acknowledge that she feared for her life during the incident and that she might have been killed had she not used the knife.
1
SPEAKER_00
However, she reports that the guilt is so difficult to bear that she wishes she had never had the knife, even though it might mean that she would have been killed.
1
SPEAKER_00
Giuliana s behavior on the unit has been
2
SPEAKER_01
exemplary.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ve seen enough of Giuliana s to believe that she represents no risk to the community.
2
SPEAKER_01
The next morning, about 9 a.m., I got a text from my guy.
2
SPEAKER_01
It said, morning bro.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I reached out to her and as I thought, she s not open to speaking about it.
2
SPEAKER_01
She was also a little concerned about this project as well and doesn t really want me to speak on her at all either.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I think if there s any other topics or anything you need me to speak on, that s fine.
2
SPEAKER_01
But out of respect for her, I don t want to touch any of this stuff regarding the incident.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I called him.
2
SPEAKER_01
I wanted to respect what he was saying.
2
SPEAKER_01
I wanted to respect what she was saying.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I felt like I have just this one last modicum of journalistic responsibility.
2
SPEAKER_01
I have to ask him, Hey man, how about if you just come on and we just talk about what it was like for you to lose someone you were close to, to the juvenile system.
2
SPEAKER_01
No dice.
2
SPEAKER_01
Kind as hell, polite, but solid.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s my friend.
2
SPEAKER_01
I care about her.
2
SPEAKER_01
She asked me to stay off of this.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I m going to stay off of this.
2
SPEAKER_01
When I hung up the phone, I was disappointed because it was like, ah, this thing that just felt like it fell on my lap, this perfect moment, it s gone.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m standing in my kitchen.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m looking at the phone.
2
SPEAKER_01
I called Monica to tell her about this.
2
SPEAKER_01
And the mandate here was make this project some act or gesture of kindness to this person who committed a crime, served out her punishment and wants to go on with her life.
2
SPEAKER_01
When her psychiatrist took the stand during her appeal case, the psychiatrist said this, a person s character is determined on what they do every day.
2
SPEAKER_01
And certainly there are extraordinary circumstances that people can come across in their life in which they would engage in behaviors that are atypical for them.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it s my assessment that that s what happened here, that we have a girl who was in a situation that was extraordinary and engaged in a behavior which is not typical for her.
2
SPEAKER_01
Something extraordinary had happened.
2
SPEAKER_01
And what s interesting is that extraordinary circumstance felt distinctly un-extraordinary at that point in time at my high school.
2
SPEAKER_01
Principal Goodman called them popcorn fights.
2
SPEAKER_01
There were fights like that busting open every week at the football game, all over the place.
2
SPEAKER_01
There were dozens of them.
2
SPEAKER_01
It could have been any one of us.
2
SPEAKER_01
Her atypical behavior kept her locked up from September 2005 until her release in June 2008.
2
SPEAKER_01
And from what I hear, she has a job, she has a life.
2
SPEAKER_01
She did everything she needed to do to move on.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so has the driver, you know, cause something extraordinary happened to him too.
2
SPEAKER_01
And the driver was friends with Rob Klimko back in high school.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I recently found out they re still in touch.
2
SPEAKER_01
So have you been around him as an adult?
2
SPEAKER_01
Why did you have his phone number?
2
SPEAKER_01
Do you know him?
2
SPEAKER_01
What s your contact with him today?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, he was my realtor.
2
SPEAKER_01
He sold me my house two years ago.
2
SPEAKER_01
Were you able to observe anything about how he is today as an adult?
2
SPEAKER_01
Did he seem fine?
2
SPEAKER_01
Did he seem adjusted?
2
SPEAKER_00
I reached out to him because I followed him on Instagram and I saw that he was selling houses.
2
SPEAKER_00
And he seemed to have a good relationship with his clients.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I was a little bit curious about what he was like as an adult, honestly.
2
SPEAKER_00
And if there was a window to talk about what happened, because I m a journalist, I was interested in talking about that.
2
SPEAKER_00
But there wasn t.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think he s very careful about that.
2
SPEAKER_00
He kept it very professional.
2
SPEAKER_00
We talked a little bit about back in the day, but he s not a back in the day guy.
2
SPEAKER_00
Now I m guessing, but if you go through something like that, I think you just kind of put up a wall and that would explain why maybe he had some awareness of you in high school, but he wouldn t now.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and you are a journalist, which is why it s both why I know that you probably hyperanalyze this interaction and also why I know you re going to be careful to be thoughtful and responsible about how you psychoanalyze this person.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I really do want to know, what did you observe about the man?
2
SPEAKER_01
Did it match the kid that you knew 20 years ago?
2
SPEAKER_01
Was it the same guy?
2
SPEAKER_01
Did it feel like you could have guessed this is who this person would be today?
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, there was a guy who, you know, he wore the baggy black jeans and kind of hung out with some guys that you knew you could get weed from.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t think I imagined him being like a buttoned up realtor, you know.
2
SPEAKER_00
who s always on time and has all your questions answered about the properties.
2
SPEAKER_00
So no, he wasn t the kid I would imagine.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you asked me what he was gonna be like when I knew him in high school before everything that happened, I would not have said that he would be like this person that I met two years ago.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I don t wanna read too much into that because we re all so much different than we were in high school.
2
SPEAKER_00
I graduated from Blake High School with a 2.1 GPA.
2
SPEAKER_00
Nobody thought that I would be a journalist with any success, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
So, you know, it could be that different things happened to him that have nothing to do with the Leachia Bettencourt.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, we all grew up in different ways and for different reasons.
2
SPEAKER_01
I really just am trying to get a sense of, by anyone who s been around him as an adult, who is he?
2
SPEAKER_01
What s he like?
2
SPEAKER_01
What kind of vibe did he have?
2
SPEAKER_01
It sounds like he seemed professional.
2
SPEAKER_01
It sounds like he seemed pleasant.
2
SPEAKER_01
Did you guys have any kind of human
2
SPEAKER_01
interaction, connection?
2
SPEAKER_01
Did you get a sense for, is he happy?
2
SPEAKER_01
Is he sad?
2
SPEAKER_01
Is he, like all of us, kind of up and down every day?
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
I couldn t speak to whether or not he was happy or sad.
2
SPEAKER_00
He pulled up in a silver convertible.
2
SPEAKER_00
He still loves cars.
2
SPEAKER_00
And he was pretty matter of fact in terms of his interactions with me.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, he wanted to make this happen for Dana and I. And I think he did appreciate that I knew him from childhood and reached out to him.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t imagine that there s a whole bunch of people that went to Blake High School who hang out with.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so I think there was a level of appreciation there with the familiarity, but there was a wall.
2
SPEAKER_00
He was not going to let us get into what happened.
2
SPEAKER_01
The driver who you heard Rob Klimko say helped him and his family buy a house.
2
SPEAKER_01
He s helping people.
2
SPEAKER_01
He s helping families have a home.
2
SPEAKER_01
He s helping families be families.
2
SPEAKER_01
Alicia s mom said it to me in our conversation.
2
SPEAKER_01
Dax and Monica said it to me in a different way.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think what they re telling me is I m not supposed to, quote unquote, leave it behind.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m supposed to turn it into something that can be a gift to somebody else.
2
SPEAKER_01
The way Alicia s mom put it is
2
SPEAKER_02
I do believe that things are connected.
2
SPEAKER_02
We re all connected in this world, one way or another.
2
SPEAKER_02
And when you re confronted with something as the death of a best friend, it s about what you do with it.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s not about what happened to you.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s about what you do with what happened to you.
2
SPEAKER_02
And that s Rabbi Koshner, not my words.
2
SPEAKER_02
So maybe it s this podcast.
2
SPEAKER_02
I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_02
Maybe something else.
2
SPEAKER_02
But we re all connected.
2
SPEAKER_01
I hope that the thing that is good that comes out of this is the people where I m from feel seen if they want to be seen, feel remembered if they want to be remembered, and that wherever we can find the capacity to extend empathy to each other for whatever part we played in that year, I hope we can do that.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I guess that extends more widely to whoever s out there that s going to listen to this.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s a lot of young people
2
SPEAKER_01
more and more now than ever, who are living with shame and guilt and sadness and broken self-images because the things that they do now are available for public consumption forever.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I hope that we can find a way to give them some grace, give them a break, let them fuck up, let them be people, and then let them move on with their lives.
2
SPEAKER_01
to the driver.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you ever want to tell this story through your eyes, if you ever want to tell someone what it s like to be a teenager who commits an act and then has to live with that for the rest of their lives, I am here.
2
SPEAKER_01
And if you never, ever, ever want to talk about it ever again, you will never, ever hear from me.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s a promise.
2
SPEAKER_01
Juliana, if you re out there and you hear this, I just connect to you.
2
SPEAKER_01
I feel you.
2
SPEAKER_01
I would have been that kid in the same spot doing the oratory contest, trying to figure out, scrambling, how do I get my life back to what it was going to be?
2
SPEAKER_01
Even though I m trying to close the book and say goodbye to this year, we re all still writing this story by the way that we live our lives.
2
SPEAKER_01
There are people around us all the time who are just like the driver, just like Juliana, just like the families, still trying to find peace in something that happened so long ago.
2
SPEAKER_01
The lesson for me is that every day I m encountering someone like that.
2
SPEAKER_01
And if I can just give them one moment of peace by the way I treat them, maybe that helps them close the book.
2
SPEAKER_02
Thank you for inviting me to do this.
2
SPEAKER_02
I m very honored
3
SPEAKER_02
It was really fun remembering a lot of things that we haven t talked about in a long time.
3
SPEAKER_02
I went through all yearbooks last night and you re just a treasure.
3
SPEAKER_02
So congratulations to you.
3
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re a treasure.
3
SPEAKER_01
Thank you.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was laughing the other day because I did some interview thing and
3
SPEAKER_01
The Hollywood folk, at the end of everything, they always tell each other they love each other.
3
SPEAKER_01
Do they?
3
SPEAKER_01
And sometimes I m like, you just met this person, you know, 10 seconds ago.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I actually do love you.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re my mama.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know I love you for sure.