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Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert, Experts on Expert.
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I m Dan Shepard, and I m joined by Monica Padman.
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Hi.
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Rare one today.
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Bodybuilding.
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Bodybuilding.
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Boy, Kumail and Rob McElhenney have got to be all ears for this one.
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I hope so.
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If they don t listen to this episode, our friendship s over.
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Oh no, okay.
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Should I warn them?
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I feel like I should side text them.
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SPEAKER_04
You might need to, because it won t be the real test I need it to be if I text them.
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Yeah, it won t.
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Yeah.
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Phil Heath.
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I would imagine a lot of armchairs have never heard that name, which is funny because he s very much a Jordan in his given sport, which is bodybuilding.
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Phil Heath is a professional bodybuilder.
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who has won the Mr. Olympia seven times.
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Which is crazy.
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There s two eights and then there s him.
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Yeah, pretty cool.
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The eighth, of course, I talk about endlessly on here.
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He comes up so much.
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We re gonna have to interview him as well.
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I would love to.
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Ronnie Coleman.
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Ronnie Coleman.
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It was actually fun to hear Phil have so many thoughts about Ronnie Coleman.
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But at any rate, Phil Heath has a new documentary out now called Breaking Olympia, which is the Phil Heath story.
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Fascinating tale.
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You ll hear a bunch of it here today.
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And enjoy the pictures.
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Just really go through those pictures and try to comprehend how tiny your boy looks next to Phil Heath.
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And me.
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You re in danger.
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But he was very nice.
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Yeah.
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I didn t feel in danger.
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No, he was a sweetheart.
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He was very nice to my children.
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Please enjoy Phil Heath.
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She s an object
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I m from Michigan, so... Oh, okay, we just moved there.
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Oh, no way!
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Wait, what?
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We just moved to Michigan, so... No!
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Originally from Seattle.
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My wife s originally from the Bay Area.
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So we live in Royal Oak.
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No way!
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Yeah.
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Oh my god!
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Yeah.
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That s about the coolest place you can live in.
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That s what everybody keeps telling us, so we re happy.
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We re like right there near Birmingham.
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Have you tried Coney Dog s yet?
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SPEAKER_00
I haven t tried that yet.
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SPEAKER_04
You haven t?
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, you got a whole... Well, we just keep driving by it.
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Every 20 feet, right?
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Yeah, yeah.
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Are there lines and stuff always?
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No, there s so many, Monica.
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Well, you were there.
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They outnumber McDonald s by like ten to one.
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Yeah, so there s religions.
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You re either a national person or you re a Lafayette person.
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Got it.
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You have to pick your... You re a Kirby s person.
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You have to pick your... Your team is like everything, yeah.
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You can t just eat a hot dog.
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You gotta declare who you are.
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I like to think of myself as a pony dog expert.
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No, that s...
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That s dope, man.
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Here s your mic.
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Is there anything else you would like?
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SPEAKER_00
No, this is great.
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SPEAKER_00
You don t want coffee?
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SPEAKER_00
My wife just told me I m too skinned out already.
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She s like, yeah, no more.
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But also that s kind of a role.
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It s kind of astounding to watch you guys work.
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You re a team.
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Yes.
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And half of her day is preparing your insane diet regimen.
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Yeah.
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Which makes sense.
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You guys have a family business and part of it is like how many calories a day?
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To be quite honest, I stopped counting.
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I just go by the meal because I think when you start having this number like, oh, I eat 6,000 calories a day, that becomes very daunting, I think.
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Yeah, for sure.
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When you just say, this is the meal, this many grams of carbs, this many grams of protein, it s just a lot easier.
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You say in the doc that you were eating every two hours.
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Yeah, every two, two and a half hours I was eating.
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So depending on what time I woke up and what time I went to bed, it could be up to eight times.
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And how much at a time?
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The most between protein and carbs, a pound and a half.
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Your plate would be a pound and a half between those two.
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So how many grams of protein was that?
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Like 75 grams per meal.
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Times seven.
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Eight.
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Yeah, seven if not eight.
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So it was a lot.
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Oh my goodness.
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Right, so obviously your fiance.
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Are you married now?
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We re married now.
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So in the doc, when it was filmed, we were engaged.
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And had been for quite a while, right?
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SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah.
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Yeah.
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For how long?
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We were engaged over six years.
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I know that for sure.
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So it was too long.
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Do you think the doc at all shamed you into like, all right, I got to fucking get that?
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No, not at all.
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It was having an ex-wife.
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That s what made it quite difficult.
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So anyone that has been married before that has that quote unquote baggage, you kind of are like, let s just tread lightly on this.
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I m being fair to my ex.
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I don t need to bash her or anything like that because I expect her not to do that to me.
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But, you know, you just want to have things to be cool and
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Eventually we realized like, just go get married.
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Like, you know, after COVID, you re like, I m not wasting any more time.
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Well, there is some merit to not getting married.
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Now I say that as someone who s been married for a while, but we were interviewing Goldie Hawn recently and you know, her and Kurt Russell, they never got married.
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Oh, they didn t?
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SPEAKER_04
No, they re not married.
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They re boyfriend, girlfriend.
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They ve been together.
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At the time we interviewed, was it maybe 30 years at that point?
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And I even said to her, do you think if you had been married, you would have gotten divorced at some point?
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And she s like, yes.
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So in some weird way,
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There is a little merit to not getting married because then you can just have a really shitty patch and you don t have to like get divorced over it.
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It doesn t feel so existential.
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Like, well, now I got to make this big, huge life decision, like a divorce.
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Yeah.
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Cause you re married and when you re having shitty times, as all couples do, you start going like, and now this is for the rest of my life.
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So you add this extra layer.
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Yes.
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It really is unnecessary.
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And you re more married to the state than to each other.
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Well, I ll tell you a funny one really quick.
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So when my wife and I got married, I at the time had more money than her in the bank and I m nuts about money.
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Like I grew up broke and it s a thing.
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I don t have a healthy relationship with it.
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She goes, would you want a prenup in my mind?
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I m like, yes, I want a fucking prenup so bad.
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But then I go, no, I don t want a prenup.
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Got married, then jokes on her cause she got in frozen and all of a sudden she s got way more money.
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So you just don t know.
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It is interesting, though.
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I think it scares people now.
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I talked to some younger adults.
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It s not even on their radar.
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They don t even care.
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I mean, they re trying to screw everybody.
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Like these dating apps and stuff.
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I get that part because I can only imagine if I was living that life.
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There s no such thing as delayed gratification for someone under 30 years old right now.
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No.
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For us that are over 30, delayed gratification is worth it.
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Ironically, yes.
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In every single sector of your life, if there s this one, you go like, no, this should be super easy and immediate and then work out.
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If it would be easy, everybody would be a champion.
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But then you would have nothing to look forward to.
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And within bodybuilding, you may feel great after that first workout, even if you got your ass kicked.
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But I don t look as strong as Phil Heath or like Arnold Schwarzenegger.
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When is that going to happen?
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And I think that s why some people reverted back to those negative patterns that have purchased the January 1st membership.
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Yes.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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The resolutions are starting to evaporate.
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Then it really comes down to a deeper conviction, recognizing like, okay, this pattern does not serve me.
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I need to really submit and say, you know what?
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Enough is enough.
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Whether it be alcohol, whether it be sex, drugs, gambling, whatever it is, just being angry.
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This does not serve this person who I claim and declare I m going to be.
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Yeah, that s the rough part.
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It s hard.
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Like in AA we say, I got sick of people judging me for my actions and not my intentions.
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Yeah.
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You can say you re whoever you are, but we kind of have the results in front of us.
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You didn t show up for work three days in a row and you ve been blacked out for a while.
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Let s go back.
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Cause we have some similarities.
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You and I, single mom.
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How old were your parents when?
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So my parents divorced around three.
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Same.
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Wow.
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So we were on our own for a little bit.
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Do you have brothers and sisters?
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SPEAKER_00
No, I was raised as an only child.
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I still remember I was in an apartment.
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Something happened.
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Obviously, there was a nasty argument.
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And I remember being with my mom in the guest bedroom.
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She was just crying.
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She was just rocking me to sleep.
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She was singing.
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I think she s singing to herself more than she s singing to me.
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And I never saw that place again after that day.
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SPEAKER_00
Wow.
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SPEAKER_00
Wow.
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So once morning came, I guess we just left.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_04
So at least it s alluded to in the doc.
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SPEAKER_04
And both of our dads have died prematurely.
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And around the same time, 14 for you?
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Yeah, it ll be 10 years on the 29th.
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SPEAKER_04
But alcoholism s in the mix.
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SPEAKER_04
By the way, your dad s way better looking than my dad, but my dad had fucking rhythm.
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SPEAKER_04
He made moves, like he drove a Corvette, he dressed right, girls liked him, and your dad was a fucking fox.
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He was a stud.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, our dads are probably kicking it right now, dude.
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They re like, oh yeah, you got it going on, I got it going on, like hey.
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I do need to say your father is much better looking.
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Your father is a fucking 10.
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SPEAKER_00
It s so funny.
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Because when you re dating, and I share pictures of my father with my now wife, she was like, wow, he s really handsome.
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And then her mom got quiet.
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SPEAKER_00
Her parents are still together.
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SPEAKER_00
My father-in-law s like, yeah.
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We get it.
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SPEAKER_00
We do, yeah.
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But he looked like a movie star, man.
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SPEAKER_00
Really?
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
He s always dapper.
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SPEAKER_00
He just had style.
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SPEAKER_00
And he would be the one that would always make sure, if I m dressed up for an event, pocket squares got to be on point, cuff links, everything.
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SPEAKER_00
He d be the one rocking Lucchesis, snake skin boots.
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SPEAKER_00
He had it all, man.
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Yeah going on what brought them to Seattle.
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So my mom grew up in a little town called Zachary, Louisiana My dad was from Dallas Fort Worth area So probably just a more liberal town but no military because no end up in there because the Navy maybe yeah, usually but I just believe that everybody just wanted a different start deep south There was obviously racism.
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I mean all kind of shit was going on.
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My stepfather was from a place called Huntsville, Alabama He s going on 91.
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So that means
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He was born in 1933.
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Come on, the things that he probably had to see in Alabama?
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He watched all Jim Crow come up.
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So they all were like, let s go up north.
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Let s go further west.
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Let s just get the hell out of here.
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And in fact, when we were filming Breaking Olympia, you have to go through all your old effects.
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So I was able to find old pictures of my biological parents.
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To think that they were partying in the 70s, you would think, oh, they re just with a bunch of black folks.
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SPEAKER_02
It s like, no, no, no, no.
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It was all races in Seattle.
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So I think it was more safe.
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Everybody just felt comfortable.
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Yeah, way more liberal.
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I think that s probably why they moved there.
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And what d they do for a living there?
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So my mom worked in cargo services for a company called Sealand at the time that later changed names into Horizon Lines, CSX Lines.
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They got acquired by Mattson.
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SPEAKER_02
She started off as a clerk, worked all the way up to upper level management.
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Let s be honest, minority woman, telling longshoremen at the port what to do.
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SPEAKER_01
Wow.
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So she would work late night on Wednesdays and Fridays because those were the days that those ships had to leave.
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So she would work at the port of Tacoma, Washington.
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So those containers, she would have to make sure that whatever s coming in, proper manifest, whatever s going out, she would wait until the last container got on that barge.
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SPEAKER_02
So she...
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Carried yourself with a lot of pride and respect and accountability because those are things that have to get to where they re supposed to be.
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SPEAKER_02
And being an entrepreneur, you know, I had a supplement company along with my wife.
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SPEAKER_02
You learn when you get product and they re supposed to go to Europe or Asia, who is doing those things.
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You learn about real deadlines.
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SPEAKER_00
Not like, uh, I think I got to get this project done sometime in the next few weeks.
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SPEAKER_02
And it doesn t matter about your feelings either.
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SPEAKER_02
So her having a deadline and having to effectively communicate with people that may not like the way she looks.
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And let s be honest, there s plenty of males that don t like taking directions from a female.
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SPEAKER_02
Plenty s being generous.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, exactly.
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99%.
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SPEAKER_01
It s not easy.
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SPEAKER_00
I see it all the time.
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SPEAKER_00
Well, you ve got misogyny, but then you also just have, we ve all been raised by moms.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, don t tell me what to do.
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SPEAKER_00
Like triggers some weird, your mother s telling you what to do.
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SPEAKER_00
I just have to tell you, cause my mom s inside visiting right now.
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SPEAKER_00
So my mom started when she left my dad night shift janitor at general motors and then worked your way up into the fleet.
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SPEAKER_00
Then became a manager of all the fleet.
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SPEAKER_00
Same exact shit.
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SPEAKER_00
I had to deal with all the dudes.
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SPEAKER_00
We re like living in parallel.
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SPEAKER_00
And the amount of shit she had to take and also be a boss and how to play the fucking game.
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SPEAKER_00
There you go.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh man, you got to do your job.
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SPEAKER_00
Perfect.
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SPEAKER_00
And then you got to deal with every dude hitting on you.
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SPEAKER_00
That s just part of every other thing you re dealing with.
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SPEAKER_02
What were her nights?
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SPEAKER_02
Like when she got home, was she just quiet?
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SPEAKER_00
Well, she had a TV or was it like a drink?
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SPEAKER_00
Well, this is what I was going to ask you about.
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SPEAKER_00
So I had a lot of stepdads.
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SPEAKER_00
So it was usually coming home or the stepdad was supposed to pick her up.
1
SPEAKER_00
We only have one car, but he s blocked out.
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SPEAKER_00
He s abusive.
1
SPEAKER_00
So we got an abusive dude in the house.
1
SPEAKER_00
We got a baby.
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SPEAKER_00
There s three of us.
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SPEAKER_00
I m writing about it right now.
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SPEAKER_00
I don t know how that woman kept moving forward.
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SPEAKER_00
Probably because of you guys.
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SPEAKER_00
What was your stepdad s scenario like?
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SPEAKER_02
My stepdad worked at a NBC affiliate.
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SPEAKER_02
So he worked at King 5 in Seattle, Washington.
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SPEAKER_02
He was a TV engineer.
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SPEAKER_02
That was back in the day, obviously, when you had like 30 people in a news station.
1
SPEAKER_02
But he worked in the control room.
1
SPEAKER_02
He worked behind the cameras.
1
SPEAKER_02
He did all that stuff.
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SPEAKER_00
And how old were you when he came on the scene?
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SPEAKER_02
I was three and a half.
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SPEAKER_02
Okay, so really quick after.
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SPEAKER_02
Almost like right away.
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SPEAKER_02
In fact, my mom and my stepdad met at a going away party for a mutual friend.
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SPEAKER_02
And my cousin was supposed to look after me and got called in for work.
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SPEAKER_02
And so she told my now stepdad, like, Hey, I can t come.
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SPEAKER_02
He was like, Oh, bring them.
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SPEAKER_01
We ll just put him in the bedroom, you know what I mean?
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SPEAKER_02
I was like, I got TV and stuff.
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SPEAKER_02
He was like, he ll be fine.
1
SPEAKER_02
And then I guess they just hit it off.
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SPEAKER_02
Next thing you know, I remember seeing a piece of luggage and like a bunch of Safeway bags, like brown paper bags.
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SPEAKER_02
And those were my clothes.
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SPEAKER_02
We didn t have much.
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SPEAKER_02
And I m like, I guess this is where we re living now.
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SPEAKER_02
Not right away, but I m only three.
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SPEAKER_02
So I can only remember snippets.
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SPEAKER_02
I think she chose the best responsible adult that she could hang with, party with.
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, he was much older than her though.
1
SPEAKER_02
Like how much older?
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SPEAKER_02
A lot.
1
17.
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SPEAKER_00
As an adult now, I m like, damn mom, what the fuck is going on?
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, but again, it sounds like she had your best interests very much in mind.
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SPEAKER_00
Maybe she wanted to be taken care of in a way.
1
SPEAKER_02
Her being a career woman, she admired a man who had his stuff together.
1
SPEAKER_02
You know, they could create more abundance financially, which they both did.
1
SPEAKER_02
He respected my mom.
1
SPEAKER_02
I saw them argue, but never physical.
1
SPEAKER_02
They did both drink quite a bit.
1
SPEAKER_02
So mom did too.
1
SPEAKER_02
Mom came home every night drinking a Manhattan on the rocks, watching Days of Our Lives, you know, on VHS.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Set her timer to record it during the day.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
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SPEAKER_00
Then there s a time change.
1
SPEAKER_00
You re like, fuck, I didn t get my Days of Our Lives.
1
SPEAKER_02
All that stuff, man.
1
SPEAKER_02
So I learned pretty quick, alcohol was always in the house.
1
SPEAKER_02
For me, it was more, that s what adults do.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s not what kids do.
1
SPEAKER_02
And so later on, when I would have friends over, they d be like, dude, do you have a pair of ski beer in the fridge, in the garage?
1
SPEAKER_02
Let s go snag one.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I m like,
1
SPEAKER_01
I m not getting to my ass beat for you.
1
SPEAKER_02
What are you talking about?
1
SPEAKER_02
I think because it was that accessible, the Jack Daniels was in the linen closet next to the car keys.
1
SPEAKER_02
It was ever present.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
So everything was cool.
1
SPEAKER_00
Did you delineate some difference between dad and mom and stepdads drinking when you would go to your dad s on the weekend?
1
SPEAKER_00
By comparison, was dad s drinking more out of control than mom s?
1
SPEAKER_00
It s hard to say, because he didn t do it really in front of me.
1
SPEAKER_02
Oh, that s nice.
1
SPEAKER_02
He did smoke cigarettes, and that was always fucking annoying.
1
SPEAKER_02
In the car too, right?
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, like, after dinner, mint, he would say.
1
SPEAKER_02
You know, like, after dinner, mint, son.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I m like, okay, so that means he s going out.
1
SPEAKER_02
He didn t really do it in the car much because he probably did a couple of times my mom was like flipping out on him.
1
SPEAKER_02
I give my mom and my stepdad credit because they both smoked cigarettes and I don t recall them ever needing to go do a patch or anything.
1
SPEAKER_02
They just stopped.
1
SPEAKER_01
No kidding.
1
SPEAKER_02
So they were responsible to a degree.
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, that was back in the day.
1
SPEAKER_02
The bar was low.
1
SPEAKER_02
Come on.
1
SPEAKER_02
You could drive after drinking a pitcher or two of beer.
1
SPEAKER_02
We used to go to a fish joint called Skipper s in Seattle.
1
SPEAKER_02
So it d be like Long John Silvers, high quality seafood, deep fried, and they would just continually bring over a pitcher of beer.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I always noticed that my parents would just laugh louder and louder.
1
SPEAKER_02
As a kid, you re just happy because you re like, okay, everything s cool.
1
SPEAKER_01
They re happy.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I m getting home and my ass is asleep.
1
SPEAKER_02
The minute I get in the backseat of the car, I m out.
1
SPEAKER_02
I m the first person on the plane.
1
SPEAKER_02
Before they even decide to offer drinks, I m out.
1
SPEAKER_02
Right.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s weirdly telling about your childhood.
1
SPEAKER_02
That does mean you felt safe.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I feel safe.
1
SPEAKER_02
They didn t give me a reason not to.
1
SPEAKER_02
There was no car wrecks.
1
SPEAKER_02
There was none of that.
1
SPEAKER_02
There was no DUIs.
1
SPEAKER_01
There s none of that.
1
SPEAKER_01
No real wreckage.
1
SPEAKER_02
No, if anything, it was just them enjoying each other s company, maybe being a little too loud.
1
SPEAKER_02
But I lived in a house where they debate, debate, debate on everything.
1
SPEAKER_02
So you re going to get loud.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
You re just going to get loud.
1
SPEAKER_02
So my stepdad s friends would come over and, you know, we watched the fights back in the day.
1
SPEAKER_02
You watched Mike Tyson fight watching pay-per-view.
1
SPEAKER_02
Everything was loud.
1
SPEAKER_02
So being in a silent house was like, what s that?
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, when I m watching the doc, which by the way, I loved breaking Olympia, just to remind everyone.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now watch it with my 10-year-old who you just met.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, man.
1
SPEAKER_00
And she fucking loved it.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, she did?
1
SPEAKER_00
She wanted to meet you.
1
SPEAKER_00
She don t want to meet anyone.
1
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
1
SPEAKER_00
Everyone s in here.
1
SPEAKER_00
She s only asked to meet a few people and she wanted to meet you.
1
SPEAKER_00
She loved it.
1
SPEAKER_00
I loved it.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I am trying to, I m trying to figure out.
1
SPEAKER_00
how this is an answer to something in childhood, this pursuit.
1
SPEAKER_00
My first instinct would be, because I have this big chip on my shoulder, which is, again, violent stepdads.
1
SPEAKER_00
I feel in danger a lot.
1
SPEAKER_00
I want to grow up and get big and get tough, and I want to be able to defend myself.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m scared a lot.
1
SPEAKER_00
So I m hearing about your school, and I m like, well, there s a little bit of a clue.
1
SPEAKER_00
Similar thing, just a very violent town and people fighting nonstop.
1
SPEAKER_00
Where you went to school, Rainier.
1
SPEAKER_02
Rainier Beach was the high school that some people that were in more affluent communities would be like, you went there?
1
SPEAKER_02
Right.
1
SPEAKER_02
Little context, we were playing basketball against Seattle Prep, so fancy, right?
1
SPEAKER_02
We play them at home.
1
SPEAKER_02
They re a private school, but they re now asking the Seattle Public School System to fund buses for all their fans to come to watch us play.
1
SPEAKER_02
And their superintendent s like, why should we supply you buses when you guys can just drive there?
1
SPEAKER_02
They said, oh, because after we beat them, we don t want them vandalizing our nice vehicles.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God.
1
SPEAKER_02
Could you imagine them saying this in the frickin  Seattle Times?
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God.
1
SPEAKER_02
So my coach, Mike Bathia, shout out to Mike Bathia.
1
SPEAKER_02
He s still there.
1
SPEAKER_02
And this is the team you went to state with?
1
SPEAKER_02
Oh yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
Coach Bathia also works at Boeing.
1
SPEAKER_02
I still remember it, man.
1
SPEAKER_02
We re getting ready for practice.
1
SPEAKER_02
He comes in with the newspaper.
1
SPEAKER_02
Coach Bathia, God bless him, man, but he was one of those guys at that time, we called him Bobby Mike.
1
SPEAKER_00
As in Bobby Knight.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
He let it rip.
1
SPEAKER_02
Oh, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
So you don t know what you re gonna get.
1
SPEAKER_02
Sure, sure, sure.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, he had a hard day at Boeing.
1
SPEAKER_00
Mercurial.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_02
Like, oh, there s layoffs at Boeing?
1
SPEAKER_02
Oh, man, we re gonna run today.
1
SPEAKER_02
I m in the real world.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, so he s got this newspaper.
1
SPEAKER_02
Heath, read this shit.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I m reading, and I m like, what the fuck?
1
SPEAKER_00
They really said this.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, I would be offended and be like, you re probably right, too.
1
SPEAKER_02
But so here s the thing about that.
1
SPEAKER_02
We weren t like that.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
1
SPEAKER_02
Like you would think that.
1
SPEAKER_02
We d fuck our own shit up, you know?
1
SPEAKER_02
But no, it just would not happen.
1
SPEAKER_02
So I remember looking at everybody on the team.
1
SPEAKER_02
I m like, what do y all want to do about it?
1
SPEAKER_02
I m going to kick the shit out of these guys now.
1
SPEAKER_02
I still remember we beat them by 33 points.
1
SPEAKER_02
Wow.
1
SPEAKER_02
And it was a known thing in the community, like, don t do nothing.
1
SPEAKER_02
Just whoop their ass and just wave at them, saying, get the fuck out of here.
1
SPEAKER_02
That was so gratifying.
1
SPEAKER_02
It was so good.
1
SPEAKER_02
But at the same time, that was the high school I went to.
1
SPEAKER_02
People looked down upon us.
1
SPEAKER_02
They didn t expect us to become anything.
1
SPEAKER_02
Well, you had a shooting and a dance.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yep.
1
SPEAKER_02
First high school dance friend.
2
SPEAKER_01
brother got shot in the face six times, about 12 yards away from me.
2
SPEAKER_01
Obviously, that s catastrophic.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re not supposed to see these type of things in real life.
2
SPEAKER_01
Innocence gone.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s not like you can file it into, well, that ll never happen again.
2
SPEAKER_01
No, it s reality.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Cops, in that moment, were allowing those two kids to fight, thinking, disagreement, knuckle up, we re good.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because that s what everybody says online, like, why can t they just knuckle up and just be done with it, catch a fade, and let them move on?
2
SPEAKER_01
No, the kid came back, got into it again, the guy got the best of him, and now it s the embarrassment.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because everybody s laughing.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s nothing more dangerous.
2
SPEAKER_01
That embarrassment obviously did a number on him, and he decided to take matters into his own hands, and it was scary as hell.
2
SPEAKER_01
But the problem was during that, you freeze.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then you turn and run.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then you realize you re banging on someone s car as they re driving off.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, why was I thinking that they would stop and say, come on in?
2
SPEAKER_01
They re like, no, we re getting the hell out of this parking lot.
2
SPEAKER_01
We re going to Skippers.
2
SPEAKER_01
We re going to get some deep fried fish.
2
SPEAKER_00
No shit.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then you re trying to run your ass off.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then to go to a person that s working off duty security at a local Safeway.
2
SPEAKER_01
And they re like, what the fuck you want me to do?
2
SPEAKER_01
What?
2
SPEAKER_01
You re like, wait a minute.
2
SPEAKER_01
So you re security, you re not going to do anything.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, what do you want me to do?
2
SPEAKER_01
It s over.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
2
SPEAKER_01
You would think, okay, someone s going to rat this guy out.
2
SPEAKER_01
The justice system is going to figure this out.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh no.
2
SPEAKER_01
The streets figured that out within a week.
2
SPEAKER_01
So that dude got shot.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, of course.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s just those things that you learn very quick.
2
SPEAKER_01
Life is not what you think it is, dude.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
Now you and I have this in common too.
2
SPEAKER_00
So we see Conan the Barbarian.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s life altering for me.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know that whole thing exists.
2
SPEAKER_00
I see him pushing that wooden wheel around over and over.
2
SPEAKER_00
Did you have fear at that time?
2
SPEAKER_00
Did that look appealing to you in a way that I could be safe if I look like that?
2
SPEAKER_01
Not growing up.
2
SPEAKER_01
Growing up, it was more just fascinating over the fact that this guy looked like a freaking superhero.
2
SPEAKER_01
My thing was more focused on basketball.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know what I really loved growing up was those action films with martial arts.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh sure, blood sport and above the law.
2
SPEAKER_01
Dude, you know Van Dam competed as a bodybuilder at one point.
2
SPEAKER_01
That doesn t surprise me.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know Sean Connery did too.
2
SPEAKER_01
He won Mr. Universe in the 60s.
2
SPEAKER_01
He won something like that, Mr. Europe or something.
2
SPEAKER_01
Van Dam was like Mr. Belgium or something like that.
2
SPEAKER_01
Mr. Belvedere.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, my favorite Jean-Claude Van Damme film, other than Bloodsport and Kickboxer, you got those two, was No Retreat, No Surrender.
2
SPEAKER_01
Have you seen that?
2
SPEAKER_00
Remember that?
2
SPEAKER_01
He was the villain.
2
SPEAKER_01
The first scene of him walking into the dojo and just demoralizing that sensei.
2
SPEAKER_00
He just beat the brakes off of this guy.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, this dude is for real.
2
SPEAKER_01
The slicked back hair.
2
SPEAKER_01
I looked at that and was like, I gotta take karate lessons.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because if you gotta go against someone like that one day, you re fucked.
2
SPEAKER_01
And back then Karate Kid was a big film.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah, we all these fantasies.
2
SPEAKER_01
We would learn some thing and then we would be invincible.
2
SPEAKER_01
Growing up in Seattle, Washington, especially during the 80s, you had to know martial arts.
2
SPEAKER_01
You wanted to learn it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because of Bruce Lee influence, because he went to University of Washington, all that.
2
SPEAKER_01
I remember my mom and I, once we split from my father, moved in with my stepdad.
2
SPEAKER_01
Being a new kid on the block, I mean, you re gonna get tested.
2
SPEAKER_01
I got my ass whooped like the first week.
2
SPEAKER_01
And my stepdad was like, uh-uh, that s not happening.
2
SPEAKER_01
Back in the day, you know, you come home with a bloody nose or something.
2
SPEAKER_01
Your dad, let alone your guardian, they re not going to tolerate this because they know that this has to end.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it ll keep happening.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s going to keep happening.
2
SPEAKER_01
And they teach you.
2
SPEAKER_01
So he grabbed me by my shirt.
2
SPEAKER_01
He walked me down two blocks and knocked on this guy s door.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that became my new sensei that afternoon.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I m glad that that happened.
2
SPEAKER_01
because it taught me respect, bowing before you enter the dojo, taking your shoes off, knowing how to be still and know how to meditate, and just being able to exercise this controlled aggression through whether it be katas, which are forms, and sparring, and knowing that your intention through sparring isn t always to obviously kill the opponent that you re practicing with, and you knew that whoever wasn t in your class, they would always say, don t practice this at home with your friends.
2
SPEAKER_01
So they taught you respect.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that s how I grew up.
2
SPEAKER_01
So then later on with basketball, I was taught that controlled aggression.
2
SPEAKER_01
But then I had a couple of coaches like Coach Mike Bathia and another coach, Jason Basket, who were like, that s cool and everything, but we need this aggression to come out on the basketball court.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because you re too short.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re athletic, but you re timid as fuck.
2
SPEAKER_01
We need that guy to come out.
2
SPEAKER_01
We need to see some emotion and being an only child and pretty reserved and quiet.
2
SPEAKER_00
I really want to know your demeanor in high school.
2
SPEAKER_01
I want everybody to get along.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m the peacemaker.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re not trying to out alpha dudes.
2
SPEAKER_01
No.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was the guy that lacked confidence.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was the guy that didn t ask out the girl who I really wanted to ask out.
2
SPEAKER_01
I might ve been friends with her friend and then just like kind of like settling.
2
SPEAKER_01
It seems like you re a pretty sweet kid.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I d say so.
2
SPEAKER_01
I had a couple of friends growing up that had a lot more confidence and more swagger and I just kind of cowered away and was like,
2
SPEAKER_01
Alright, well that s the reason why they like him because he s more confident.
2
SPEAKER_01
Even when I got into my pro career in bodybuilding, I remember already having a cover of Flex magazine.
2
SPEAKER_01
I already had the spotlight on me being a 2005 Mr. USA going for his pro debut in Denver.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like I m, I feel
2
SPEAKER_01
fan of half these guys that I read about in the magazine, but not looking in the mirror realizing, I m about to beat these guys today.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I was just being almost too nice.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then my coach at the time, Hany Rambod, and the senior editor of Flex magazine, Peter McGuff, they both saw me and they said, what the fuck are you doing, dude?
2
SPEAKER_01
You got to turn this on.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re going to lose because of your lack of confidence.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I remember the lack of confidence I once had playing basketball that re-entered in bodybuilding initially.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then once I was able to flip that switch,
2
SPEAKER_01
of saying, no, it s time to rock and roll, Phil.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re good enough to win.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then I m like, I am.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then I look in the mirror, I am.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then I accepted it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then I ran with it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
So you go to state on this basketball team in high school, you guys win state.
2
SPEAKER_00
You then go to Denver for basketball, play D1.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re on a scholarship.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you get there, and you re a freshman, so you re not playing a ton.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then sophomore year, you re hoping to make some real gains and some strides.
2
SPEAKER_00
You kind of hit a wall, or you get to a point where you re like, I m just not really becoming this thing I ve been fantasizing about.
2
SPEAKER_00
Can we say this is depression number one?
2
SPEAKER_01
This is depression number one, for sure, because I had turned down other scholarships just to go to this school because I was the guy that signed early senior year in high school.
2
SPEAKER_01
So before my first high school game, I already had a scholarship.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think that was more of my parents doing than anything.
2
SPEAKER_00
Also maybe a lack of confidence.
2
SPEAKER_00
You want to take the bird in the hand.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re not willing to risk it.
2
SPEAKER_00
But again, this is my parents.
2
SPEAKER_01
They re like, this is what you do.
2
SPEAKER_01
Take it.
2
SPEAKER_01
They really like you.
2
SPEAKER_01
They call us all the time.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I don t think they knew the whole recruiting process.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, no one has any experience with this.
2
SPEAKER_01
And who are you going to call to find out?
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, now they do.
2
SPEAKER_01
But back in 1997, they didn t.
2
SPEAKER_00
They treat every kid like they re Allen Iverson.
2
SPEAKER_00
And they get everyone believing they re Allen Iverson.
2
SPEAKER_01
until you get on campus, and then the coach is kind of like, let s change this on this kid.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then they realize where the kid s going to fall in place.
2
SPEAKER_01
And sophomore year, I had a really good preseason, actually.
2
SPEAKER_01
Scored high.
2
SPEAKER_01
I remember hedging a screen, and I remember getting injured.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I wouldn t say that that was the reason for me not playing anymore.
2
SPEAKER_01
But it was one of those situations where you definitely didn t help your cause, because any college athlete understands this.
2
SPEAKER_01
The minute you get hurt, there s another guy in line.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, right.
2
SPEAKER_01
The coaches already got your replacement.
2
SPEAKER_01
They got to put in somebody and now you got to rehab and while you re rehabbing that person s getting more game reps than you are.
2
SPEAKER_01
The minute you get in in the game, you re going to fuck it up because you don t have the same game reps.
2
SPEAKER_01
No matter how many times you ve practiced, you don t have the muscle memory.
2
SPEAKER_01
You just don t have it like the speed of the game.
2
SPEAKER_01
You got to get in the flow.
2
SPEAKER_01
And if you re only playing two, three minutes at a time, it doesn t work, but you play all four years, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
School ends.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re coming to terms, and I think this is the part I d love to delve into a lot, because this is how I also want to end it.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s really tricky in life when you have an identity.
2
SPEAKER_00
And for you, it had been, I guess, eight years at that point.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m a basketball player.
2
SPEAKER_00
I know what the finish line is.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s the NBA.
2
SPEAKER_00
And this crazy reality, all of a sudden,
2
SPEAKER_00
I m not, other than I might play for fun.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I might play in a pro-am or try to get on that overseas trip.
2
SPEAKER_01
That just didn t make sense to me.
2
SPEAKER_00
In your 20s, it s already scary.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re like, who am I going to be as an adult?
2
SPEAKER_00
What am I pursuing?
2
SPEAKER_00
And then to have the thing that you are certain of disappear so quickly is fucking brutal.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you had a real rough time with it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was also facing the reality of the fact that I had friends that were already in the NBA.
2
SPEAKER_01
And playing at the University of Denver, every opposing team that was going against the Denver Nuggets practiced at our university.
2
SPEAKER_01
I saw Kobe Bryant fresh out the gate.
2
SPEAKER_01
I saw Shaquille O Neal.
2
SPEAKER_01
I saw Nick Van Axel playing for the Nuggets.
2
SPEAKER_01
And you re getting a taste.
2
SPEAKER_01
Wow, look at these guys.
2
SPEAKER_01
Man, he s making jump shots like it s nothing.
2
SPEAKER_01
Check out his footwork.
2
SPEAKER_01
Who stays in after practice?
2
SPEAKER_01
Who s early?
2
SPEAKER_01
Who s late?
2
SPEAKER_01
How does he walk?
2
SPEAKER_01
Every athlete has a walk, probably like every actor has a certain strut.
2
SPEAKER_01
And you re like mesmerized by this.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then you realize that ain t you.
2
SPEAKER_01
You can only go as far as God said you re going to go.
2
SPEAKER_01
And at that time, you can t see the bigger picture.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re the kid that used to sleep with his basketball the night before the game.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re the one that would over-prepare.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re the one that was always undersized, that played with a chip on his shoulder, and you just did not get the minutes that you felt you were deserving of.
2
SPEAKER_01
And your depression sets in, and you realize, what the hell am I going to do?
2
SPEAKER_01
I will say fortunately for me, I was sitting next to a guy that was competing in amateur bodybuilding.
2
SPEAKER_01
Was he a roommate?
2
SPEAKER_01
He just was a classmate.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was in a programming class.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oracle 9i class, doing all this shit, and I m looking at his laptop.
3
SPEAKER_00
He s got Ronnie Coleman, Jay Cutler, all these guys.
3
SPEAKER_00
I got Brooke Burke on my laptop, you know?
3
SPEAKER_00
I m like, what the hell s going on here, bro?
3
SPEAKER_00
And then I just realized by him explaining it to me, this is what I am into.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m into working out for aesthetics and performance, and you re just been functional fitness for basketball.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I was always muscular as a basketball player.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, these pictures of you as a basketball player, we have a good start.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re pretty overly muscular.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, for Hooper?
3
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
3
SPEAKER_01
You have some good genes.
3
SPEAKER_00
My friends back home, they d be like, look at the buff midget.
3
SPEAKER_00
Adoringly called you.
3
SPEAKER_00
When I would take the shooting jacket off in college, people would laugh.
3
SPEAKER_00
They d be like, who the fuck is this guy?
3
SPEAKER_00
Cause you know, the student section is usually right behind you and they re just riding you.
3
SPEAKER_00
They re like, we didn t know Denver had a football team.
3
SPEAKER_00
Where d you get this guy?
3
SPEAKER_00
And then they re like, wait a minute.
3
SPEAKER_00
Why is his legs like this?
3
SPEAKER_00
He can dunk?
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, when your identity is tied to that and you start comparing yourself to other people who did make it, and that was my problem.
3
SPEAKER_00
And when you see those hoop dreams just not work out, you tend to forget what is working out.
3
SPEAKER_00
And what was working out was the fact that I still had a scholarship at a prestigious university.
3
SPEAKER_00
Everything s paid for, even the fifth year.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I m not showing gratitude for that.
3
SPEAKER_00
I only want to play.
3
SPEAKER_00
So during that fifth year, I had to recognize what was working out for me.
3
SPEAKER_00
And this new sport of bodybuilding, April 4th, 2003, I did my first amateur show, won everything.
3
SPEAKER_00
Hold on, though.
3
SPEAKER_00
You have a drinking spell in there.
3
SPEAKER_00
I didn t drink until I turned 21.
3
SPEAKER_00
I didn t do any, that was freaking boring.
3
SPEAKER_01
But was it because basketball?
3
SPEAKER_00
It was a combination of everything.
3
SPEAKER_00
I didn t want to screw a good thing up with basketball.
3
SPEAKER_00
At the time, I just didn t feel like I needed to party to have a good time.
3
SPEAKER_00
Honestly, I wanted to be around the guys and hang out with the girls.
3
SPEAKER_00
That was good enough for me.
3
SPEAKER_00
But then once you turn 21, they re like, here.
3
SPEAKER_00
Let s party.
3
SPEAKER_00
We actually played on my 21st birthday.
3
SPEAKER_00
So we played against Colorado State over in Fort Collins, and we lost.
3
SPEAKER_00
Of course we did.
3
SPEAKER_00
We lost a lot.
3
SPEAKER_00
So the whole goal was to play up there, win, and throw a party.
3
SPEAKER_00
As corny as it may sound today, I just wanted to go to Dave & Buster s without my fake ID anymore.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right, right.
3
SPEAKER_00
Because you had to be over 21.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I was living in a basketball house, it was like five of us.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it s just a thing to do on off days from playing hoops.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I didn t think of it as a coping mechanism.
3
SPEAKER_00
If anything, I thought it was something that brought us together.
3
SPEAKER_00
And you re just laughing, you re telling jokes, talking trash.
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, it helps boys be kind of emotional with each other, which they can t normally.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re drunk, you can say to your friend, like, I fucking love you.
3
SPEAKER_01
You can t say that sober.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think for boys in particular, you re just craving it so much.
3
SPEAKER_01
And this thing allows you to be really close with each other in a way that feels quite nice.
3
SPEAKER_00
It was, but at the same time, I did realize that waking up the next day, having to go to practice was not fun.
3
SPEAKER_00
And that had to get.
3
SPEAKER_00
cut off at some point.
3
SPEAKER_00
It was our senior season.
3
SPEAKER_00
We played in the Sunbelt Conference just on one road trip.
3
SPEAKER_00
We would play South Alabama, so we d play in Mobile.
3
SPEAKER_00
We would then drive 45 minutes to go play University of New Orleans.
3
SPEAKER_00
Then we d drive up to play Louisiana Lafayette and Louisiana Tech and then fly out.
3
SPEAKER_00
There s Mardi Gras going on in New Orleans during these months, dude.
3
SPEAKER_00
You should stay at this Marriott right off of Canal and Bourbon.
3
SPEAKER_00
And coach would be like, stay in your fucking room.
3
SPEAKER_00
The freaking Coach USA driver took us out one night, okay?
3
SPEAKER_00
And we just used that per diem to go party, man, having hurricanes and hand grenades.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then you recognize that this is getting out of hand.
3
SPEAKER_00
There was a couple of teammates that got into some bad trouble.
3
SPEAKER_00
One had to take time off from the team because now you re mixing pain meds with that.
3
SPEAKER_00
You start to see the negative effects of it.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s escalating.
3
SPEAKER_00
I recognize that.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I will say, I had the ability to stop.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was very lucky.
3
SPEAKER_00
I know a lot of other people couldn t stop.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s why bodybuilding worked out so well for me, because you can t be a rock star and a bodybuilder.
3
SPEAKER_00
Because when I did my first show,
3
SPEAKER_00
And I won, I drank all night, and came out that next morning bloated as hell.
3
SPEAKER_00
Those type of carbs from beers just don t work right after you ve been depleting for so long.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I was embarrassed, because I didn t look the part.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I was like, I m not going to do that again.
3
SPEAKER_00
I should have more respect for my health.
3
SPEAKER_00
So bodybuilding for me, it always made sense to say, OK, for four months out of the year when I m training for competition, there is none of that.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I actually liked that, because first of all, it was working.
3
SPEAKER_00
And second of all, it reminded me that I was doing something that very few people can do.
3
SPEAKER_00
Maybe that sounds arrogant, but I think a lot of people need to learn self-control.
3
SPEAKER_00
I can still go out and go have a beer later.
3
SPEAKER_00
I d be like, yeah, maybe one.
3
SPEAKER_00
And maybe I ll only drink half of that.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you were to ask my wife, how is Phil when you guys go out to a nice dinner and there s dessert on the table?
3
SPEAKER_00
She ll tell you, Phil will leave half of that shit on the table on purpose, just to prove to himself that he doesn t have to do it, but he can do it.
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, okay, so this is what I want to suggest.
3
SPEAKER_01
So we had Letterman on, he hasn t drank for the last 30 years or something.
3
SPEAKER_01
He quit because he was an alcoholic, but he never went to AA.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I said, do you think it s possible that you didn t need AA because you had another drug stepped in?
3
SPEAKER_01
And he said, a hundred percent.
3
SPEAKER_01
Every night I had a live audience.
3
SPEAKER_01
To get the body you got, to train like you did, to do what needs to be done, which I don t think people really broadly have an understanding of, you have to be fucking addicted to it.
3
SPEAKER_01
It has to be an obsession and an addiction.
3
SPEAKER_01
I imagine genetically you re predisposed to be an addict with your parents.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I just wonder if you found the addiction that didn t take you down.
3
SPEAKER_00
Is there a drug of looking fantastic?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
How does that make you feel?
3
SPEAKER_00
Wonderful.
3
SPEAKER_00
But there s a competitive aspect about it.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s what really got me going.
3
SPEAKER_00
because you know how many people I know that could probably train as hard or train harder than me?
3
SPEAKER_00
Quite a few.
3
SPEAKER_00
But they can t diet, and train, and do cardio, and say no to people, and communicate with their spouse, and communicate with their friends and family, and then have curveballs thrown at their asses with life happening, with people dying, or friends fucking them over, or business, media requests.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m doing these appearances right now, and I ve been traveling all year, which is dope, but my back is fucking hurting right now.
3
SPEAKER_00
You do it.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s our bad couch, I m sorry.
3
SPEAKER_00
No, no, no, you re fine.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m being transparent.
3
SPEAKER_00
Hey, Phil, you signed up for this.
3
SPEAKER_00
You signed up also for the unknown.
3
SPEAKER_00
You signed up for the fact that everything isn t always going to be in your favor, but you can make it that way if you stay committed to your purpose.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then just knowing that if it was easy, everybody would be good.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it always felt great being on a bodybuilding stage and that person standing next to me knows they fucked up.
3
SPEAKER_00
knows that they didn t train as hard, knows that they made a mistake.
3
SPEAKER_00
They didn t cut right.
3
SPEAKER_00
They took a chance of, oh, I m going to eat pizza and do a cheat meal because last time I did it, it made me fuller, made me drier and harder.
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, that was last time.
3
SPEAKER_00
You tried that shit this time, instead of getting 5% better, you got 20% worse.
3
SPEAKER_00
All you had to do is just stay committed to the process of eating this bland-ass meal for like six more hours.
3
SPEAKER_00
Maybe you would have won those 0.1%
3
SPEAKER_00
opportunities that many of us miss because of the lack of discipline at the most opportune time.
3
SPEAKER_00
Still to this day, I thrive in those situations.
3
SPEAKER_00
There s more skulls that I got to collect.
3
SPEAKER_00
There s more titles that I must have.
3
SPEAKER_00
There s more adversity that I must be willing to go through that I don t even know what s going to happen.
3
SPEAKER_00
I didn t know that my dad was going to die when I was competing.
3
SPEAKER_00
I didn t know I was going to get a divorce.
3
SPEAKER_00
You have friends that don t like the fact that you re going through that.
3
SPEAKER_00
You have the media that s fucking with you.
3
SPEAKER_01
We re getting more and more isolated.
3
SPEAKER_01
Winning is not the quickest road to friendship.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s like we had Sean White on here.
3
SPEAKER_01
You would think he was loved in the snowboard community.
3
SPEAKER_01
He was hated.
3
SPEAKER_01
When he would show up, they d be like, fuck, now we re fighting for a second.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s not fun for them.
3
SPEAKER_01
They ve been trying all year.
3
SPEAKER_01
Right.
3
SPEAKER_01
Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.
3
SPEAKER_01
Let s go through the meteoric rise.
3
SPEAKER_01
You start competing.
3
SPEAKER_01
And if I understood the doc correctly, you never didn t win.
3
SPEAKER_01
Correct.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m watching.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m like, did I hear that?
3
SPEAKER_00
It s pretty wild.
3
SPEAKER_00
So like I did my first show, it was the NPC Northern Colorado is in Boulder, Colorado.
3
SPEAKER_00
I did the novice in the open overall.
3
SPEAKER_00
I won both.
3
SPEAKER_00
I did the Mr. Colorado two months later.
3
SPEAKER_00
I won my weight class, but not the overall.
3
SPEAKER_00
So technically I didn t win the entire thing, but I was undefeated as an amateur, so to speak, because I never lost a weight division.
3
SPEAKER_00
But then I came back that following year, won the Mr. Colorado, then went to the Junior Nationals, won that, got signed with Flex magazine, Muscle & Fitness, and then won the Mr. USA that following month in July of 05, with the cover of Flex that same night.
3
SPEAKER_00
When you get signed to Flex, what did that mean?
3
SPEAKER_00
That means you re exclusive.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I can appear in multiple magazines.
3
SPEAKER_00
They ll have contests, photographers, but training, my mindset, you know, my words, my image and likeness will only be featured in muscle and fitness and flex.
3
SPEAKER_00
Is that a yearly contract?
3
SPEAKER_01
It was always two years.
3
SPEAKER_01
And is it enough to pay for everything?
3
SPEAKER_01
Cause you have to train and eat all day long.
3
SPEAKER_01
You can t do anything else.
3
SPEAKER_01
No.
3
SPEAKER_01
How Ronnie Coleman was a cop, I don t understand.
3
SPEAKER_00
I believe talking to Ronnie about it, he competed through his third Mr. Olympia title as a police officer.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I know he loved it.
3
SPEAKER_00
He s his own thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
We gotta talk about him.
3
SPEAKER_00
He s a freak.
3
SPEAKER_00
I know firsthand what that travel schedule s like.
3
SPEAKER_00
Once your travel schedule goes through the roof, like well over 100,000 miles a year, you have to quit your day job.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, I was working at a Bali Total Fitness as a retail store manager, and I was catching shit.
3
SPEAKER_00
But when you re traveling every weekend to do guest appearances, autograph signings.
3
SPEAKER_00
We kind of touched on it, but now would be a good time.
3
SPEAKER_00
Your life at that time.
4
SPEAKER_00
is you re training, I imagine, twice a day?
4
SPEAKER_00
Twice a day, hour and a half.
4
SPEAKER_00
So three hours a day, but you got to eat every two hours.
4
SPEAKER_00
And it takes you a minute to eat because you re fucking pounding.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
You re rubbing, man.
4
SPEAKER_00
To have a normal job and eat the way you re supposed to is almost impossible.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s why you work at a gym.
4
SPEAKER_00
Right.
4
SPEAKER_00
No one s going to freak out if they see you eating.
4
SPEAKER_00
But you imagine being Ronnie Coleman s partner in his car and like he s driving around in the squad car and he s got a fucking whole roast chicken that he s got to get down in between the next
4
SPEAKER_01
That s why I didn t have a partner.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s no way I could even focus smelling all this chicken.
4
SPEAKER_00
So when you got this Flex magazine contract, you can live on that?
4
SPEAKER_01
I did.
4
SPEAKER_01
I knew that it would lead to other things.
4
SPEAKER_01
So normally, it s different nowadays, but when you turn pro, especially you re Mr. USA,
4
SPEAKER_01
you would automatically get that exclusive contract with a magazine.
4
SPEAKER_01
Back then it was Flex, Muscular Development, or Ironman.
4
SPEAKER_01
Then you would get a supplement sponsor also.
4
SPEAKER_01
So I didn t have both right away.
4
SPEAKER_01
A lot of people did, but I was getting paid so much from Weider with the publications that it was almost as if I was getting a supplement contract as well.
4
SPEAKER_01
So they bump my pay up pretty nicely.
4
SPEAKER_01
So therefore I did not need to work that following year in 06 when I won my first two pro shows my stock went up tremendously because I already proven myself That was when I first signed a supplement contract probably beneficial that you had waited that long.
4
SPEAKER_00
You had a lot more leverage Oh, yeah, had you been stuck in one at the beginning?
4
SPEAKER_00
You re correct.
4
SPEAKER_00
Those are
4
SPEAKER_00
hundreds of thousands of dollars contracts or can they be millions of dollars?
4
SPEAKER_00
I was the first one.
4
SPEAKER_00
That was a million.
4
SPEAKER_01
Not then, but it grew into that.
4
SPEAKER_01
So I, along with, I know Jay was almost a million.
4
SPEAKER_01
I know Ronnie was close.
4
SPEAKER_01
He might ve hit that, but I can confirm that I was the first on paper that was over a hundred a month.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s awesome.
4
SPEAKER_01
It was a great feeling to know that that was possible.
4
SPEAKER_01
Obviously it took a shit ton of work just to get there because it wasn t right out the gate.
4
SPEAKER_01
Like that doesn t happen.
4
SPEAKER_01
And especially nowadays, for anyone thinking that you re going to get a million dollar supplement contract, it ain t happening.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s almost worse today because of social media algorithms, that data.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, they could pay 16 influencers with a aggregate following that beats the one person.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m always advocating for the pro.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, the real deal.
4
SPEAKER_01
Because, yeah, you can find some kids.
4
SPEAKER_01
I get it.
4
SPEAKER_01
I can t knock the TikTok hustle.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m happy for anyone making money doing it.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m glad, but at the same time, they re not the same.
4
SPEAKER_01
A pro is different than a casual observer.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yes, you have a line at an expo.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yes, you have millions of followers, maybe, but don t you fucking dare compare yourself to someone that will literally put it on the line in front of judges that adjudicate them.
4
SPEAKER_01
You re not the same.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, exactly.
4
SPEAKER_01
But it s a wild time for our sport because there s plenty of pros now that I do believe are more influencer than competitor.
4
SPEAKER_01
They re forced to now.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s part of the business.
4
SPEAKER_00
Actors, same thing.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s all muddy now.
4
SPEAKER_00
Okay, but we got to explain to Monica the importance of Mr. Olympia.
4
SPEAKER_00
It transcends every other event.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s the Olympics.
4
SPEAKER_00
Mr. Olympia is it.
4
SPEAKER_00
Arnold won seven.
4
SPEAKER_01
Is it once a year?
4
SPEAKER_01
Once a year.
4
SPEAKER_01
OK.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s our Super Bowl of bodybuilding.
4
SPEAKER_01
So anyone that will say, oh, yeah, my friend, he s a bodybuilder.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s like, OK, what do they want?
4
SPEAKER_01
You just cut the bullshit.
4
SPEAKER_01
And if they say they won the Olympia because I ve had people say this, oh, yeah, my friend, he won the Olympia.
4
SPEAKER_01
What s his name?
4
SPEAKER_01
Was it the amateur Olympia?
4
SPEAKER_01
Because it might have been that shit.
4
SPEAKER_01
Because there s only one winner.
4
SPEAKER_00
per category, yes.
4
SPEAKER_00
But Arnold is Arnold because he won seven.
4
SPEAKER_00
Got it.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that was unheard of and impossible, and he was the gold standard.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then this fucking freak came along, Ronnie Coleman, who, by the way, have you watched his documentary?
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s beautiful, and I want to talk to you about that.
4
SPEAKER_00
Again, I have very little knowledge of this world, but I see what this man did and the sweetness of this man and the way he trained, and he won eight, Monica.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, wow.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I don t think there have been a run of black winners either.
4
SPEAKER_01
So there was Chris Dickerson, who s black, and then Lee Haney, who was black, and Lee Haney actually won eight.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
So Lee Haney won eight after Arnold.
4
SPEAKER_01
So then I scrap my observation.
4
SPEAKER_01
No, but the reason why Ronnie Coleman is so special, not that Lee Haney isn t, Ronnie was a former college football player at Gremlin State, majored in accounting.
4
SPEAKER_01
Saddest part of the doc.
4
SPEAKER_01
They were not going to hire a black guy to be an accountant in the Deep South.
4
SPEAKER_00
Ronnie s such a sweet guy.
4
SPEAKER_00
He s justifying it.
4
SPEAKER_00
They all said I needed some work experience, but it s like, how out of college?
4
SPEAKER_00
How do you get it?
4
SPEAKER_00
That s a profession.
4
SPEAKER_00
But he s so kind and sweet.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like, no, Ronnie, that was fucking racism.
4
SPEAKER_01
Mad cum laude.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_01
You re given these milestones that you have to achieve so you ll be treated equally and he does it and they move the fucking goalpost again.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s heartbreaking.
4
SPEAKER_01
So it s definitely heartbreaking because he s now delivering pizzas and newspapers.
4
SPEAKER_01
A college standout academically.
4
SPEAKER_01
With a degree in accounting, he didn t just talk shit about other majors.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s accounting.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like we all need one.
4
SPEAKER_00
And he wanted to be an accountant and they literally wouldn t let him and he delivers pizzas and then he becomes a cop and then he starts training and he s a monster.
4
SPEAKER_00
Now, in hindsight, Monica, this was not the way to do it.
4
SPEAKER_00
He was powerlifting prior.
4
SPEAKER_00
Being a football player, I mean, the guy was already jacked.
4
SPEAKER_00
His warm-up for squats would be like 500 pounds.
4
SPEAKER_01
This guy is out-training everybody.
4
SPEAKER_01
He could have been like a world-class powerlifter.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh, for sure, because he was on that path.
4
SPEAKER_01
But if you look at some of the old videos of him powerlifting, he looked like a bodybuilder.
4
SPEAKER_01
I believe in his story, Brian Dobson, he owned Metroflex in Arlington and gave Ronnie an opportunity to have a free gym membership if he did a bodybuilding competition.
4
SPEAKER_01
So Ronnie was like, well, I don t want to pay.
4
SPEAKER_01
So I guess I ll do it.
4
SPEAKER_01
Ronnie just becomes this monster.
4
SPEAKER_00
He also pushes his sport in a way.
4
SPEAKER_00
I would imagine Arnold when he s winning those, what is he about 240?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it was like mid two forties and tall.
4
SPEAKER_00
So six one ish Ronnie comes along and Ronnie starts winning.
4
SPEAKER_00
Mr. Olympia is at 300.
4
SPEAKER_00
This has never been seen.
4
SPEAKER_00
He s a freak.
4
SPEAKER_00
He was a problem.
4
SPEAKER_01
Meaning, you want to go against the guys like Flex Wheeler, Sean Ray, like these more aesthetic, just beautiful, round, sculpted physiques.
4
SPEAKER_01
Marvel superheroes, they have all this definition, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
Ronnie had all that.
4
SPEAKER_01
He was 5 11 , long arms, long legs, but round and could out-condition.
4
SPEAKER_01
He s making everybody look like they re in 720p and he s 4K.
4
SPEAKER_01
With the roundness, it s just more muscle per square inch.
4
SPEAKER_01
The muscle now jumps out at you and you re like,
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh, shit.
4
SPEAKER_01
I can see this muscle on an anatomy chart, but this is a human being that stands amongst us.
4
SPEAKER_01
And he could outlift you.
4
SPEAKER_01
You look at guys like Dorian Yates, who is out of Birmingham, England, and he was known for just hardcore training, and he could outwork anyone.
4
SPEAKER_01
It sucks because we have to talk about this.
4
SPEAKER_01
With bodybuilding, people talk about race.
4
SPEAKER_01
So they say white guys can t beat black guys, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
But Dorian did.
4
SPEAKER_01
He won six Mr. Olympias.
4
SPEAKER_01
His muscles were sculpted.
4
SPEAKER_01
They were hard, just grainy.
4
SPEAKER_01
Looked like granite.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then Lee Haney was more round, but when Ronnie came, he had the best of both.
4
SPEAKER_01
And that s what made him so formidable.
4
SPEAKER_00
But race comes up in that doc, which is black dudes have a harder time building calves is the stereotype.
4
SPEAKER_01
But that was in there, and Ronnie s like, oh shit, I gotta murder these calves So interesting It is interesting because it s a sport where when you turn pro, you re known for like one strength Arnold s chess Right, but when you win the Olympia, you re known for the least amount of weaknesses
4
SPEAKER_01
Not your strength.
4
SPEAKER_01
Especially when you repeat over and over again.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s kind of like any other sport.
4
SPEAKER_01
At some point in time, we nitpick the shit out of the best competitor.
4
SPEAKER_01
But that means you re the best.
4
SPEAKER_01
That means you re the standard.
4
SPEAKER_01
But when it comes to being Mr. Olympia, Arnold won seven, Kenny won eight, Ronnie won eight, I won seven.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s the Mount Rushmore.
4
SPEAKER_01
And now we get to transfer those same qualities into business, into life.
4
SPEAKER_00
But I got to interject some stuff.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s some intangibles too, because Arnold had just so much charisma.
4
SPEAKER_00
Two bodies are dead equal.
4
SPEAKER_00
He s winning.
4
SPEAKER_00
He has charisma.
4
SPEAKER_00
He proved it.
4
SPEAKER_00
He is a movie star.
4
SPEAKER_00
You have a lot of charisma.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, thanks.
4
SPEAKER_00
So charisma s in the mix.
4
SPEAKER_00
You see some guys up there and I m watching this last night.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m a lay person.
4
SPEAKER_00
I can t really tell this or that, but just like acting, Phil looks like he loves this job.
4
SPEAKER_00
He s happy.
4
SPEAKER_00
He s got a smile.
4
SPEAKER_00
He s up there to show off and other dudes are up there and they don t have that personality innately.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s a lot of different things that are going into the stew.
4
SPEAKER_00
As a viewer, you enjoy watching someone more than you enjoy watching another person.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think it plays a role, especially if it s close.
4
SPEAKER_01
You always look at a professional that makes the hardest thing look easy.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
If it looks daunting, then it s like, this guy s struggling.
4
SPEAKER_01
And some people like to see that, but not when you re supposed to give a performance.
4
SPEAKER_01
I enjoyed every minute of it.
4
SPEAKER_01
I enjoyed the competition more than anything.
4
SPEAKER_01
There was also money involved.
4
SPEAKER_01
There s sponsorships, there s legacy, there s enough of this
4
SPEAKER_01
fucking diet that I am like, I ve had it.
4
SPEAKER_01
Like when you re on stage, you re like, okay, this is it.
4
SPEAKER_01
I ate all that food.
4
SPEAKER_01
I did all that freaking cardio.
4
SPEAKER_01
I said no to everything.
4
SPEAKER_01
I know I did everything right.
4
SPEAKER_01
See, there s some delusion that comes into this sport as well, because especially nowadays, everybody s telling you how great you are on social media, the overindulgence of taking the pictures.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then you re posting, posting, posting to get more likes, likes, likes.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then the fan will say,
4
SPEAKER_01
He doesn t look like that on stage.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s like, yeah, dumbass, but the competitor should know better.
4
SPEAKER_01
The competitor should know that the pictures I take in this natural lighting, without the oil, without the bronzer, without standing next to another competitor.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s everything.
4
SPEAKER_01
You learn that watching the doc.
4
SPEAKER_01
Elevated on a platform, the parallax between left and right where the judges sit.
4
SPEAKER_01
You have to go
5
SPEAKER_00
through all these different intangibles and realize that, man, I probably shouldn t have posted as much.
5
SPEAKER_00
I should have just posted just enough to keep them engaged.
5
SPEAKER_00
Maybe I should have posted with just a t-shirt on and just talk to them.
5
SPEAKER_00
Or better yet, maybe I saved those photographs, like Phil Heath did, his entire career, and you saw the docs, so you got to see my very first selfie.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
He starts doing this thing.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s very scientific.
5
SPEAKER_01
As soon as he starts bodybuilding, at first he s like, I m going to take a picture once a month.
5
SPEAKER_01
Then he s like, I m going to take a picture once a week.
5
SPEAKER_01
Then he s like, no, I m going to take a picture every time I live.
5
SPEAKER_01
So I can actually be objective about this.
5
SPEAKER_01
He would draw on these pictures.
5
SPEAKER_01
These calves need to look like this.
5
SPEAKER_00
It was scientific.
5
SPEAKER_00
You have to know where you re going, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
You have to figure this out.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it s not just, oh yeah, it s about the destination.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s like, I got to know every freaking day that I m getting closer.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I have to explain to someone one day that this is how I freaking did it, how my blueprint worked for me.
5
SPEAKER_00
And now I can be of service to many other people that say, Hey, I want to be a bodybuilder.
5
SPEAKER_00
I want to do this.
5
SPEAKER_00
I want to do that.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m like, okay, well, are you willing to do these things?
5
SPEAKER_00
Because that s what it s going to require.
5
SPEAKER_00
Otherwise you re going to pay someone to make sure they do these things for you.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, you re coaching it, honey.
5
SPEAKER_01
He s like, oh, he s my favorite guy to coach because he came out of the world of sports.
5
SPEAKER_01
He s used to having a coach go like, no, no, this sucks.
5
SPEAKER_01
You got to work on this.
5
SPEAKER_01
Here s a weakness.
5
SPEAKER_01
The coach s worst problem is the guy that s uncoachable.
5
SPEAKER_01
We ve all seen this.
5
SPEAKER_01
Unfortunately, this is me.
5
SPEAKER_01
This is my character defect.
5
SPEAKER_00
You re just like, fuck this.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m too embarrassed.
5
SPEAKER_01
If you point out something, I get too embarrassed.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then you shut down?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s terrible.
5
SPEAKER_01
This is my weakness.
5
SPEAKER_01
I think I could have been really good at a lot of things if I could just receive instruction.
5
SPEAKER_01
Maybe it was just the person though.
5
SPEAKER_01
I think it s me.
5
SPEAKER_01
Younger brother syndrome.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, at least you raise your hand and you know what it is.
5
SPEAKER_01
A lot of people live in delusion.
5
SPEAKER_00
Big weakness of mine.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s still working out for him.
5
SPEAKER_01
He s doing okay.
5
SPEAKER_00
Life s okay, right?
5
SPEAKER_01
Okay, so the story is so good.
5
SPEAKER_01
People will love taking this ride.
5
SPEAKER_01
Your first Olympia, you come in third.
5
SPEAKER_01
You re against Jay Cutler.
5
SPEAKER_01
You guys are buddies.
5
SPEAKER_01
2011, you start winning, and then you just win 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016.
5
SPEAKER_01
Is it getting scary?
5
2017.
5
SPEAKER_01
Scary like how?
5
SPEAKER_01
Every time you come back, you re like, it s mine to lose.
5
SPEAKER_01
I don t want to disrespect anyone he was competing against because he had a lot of good competition in that.
5
SPEAKER_01
But in the same way when you watched Arnold, like if you watch Pumping Iron, even if you don t know, it s pretty fucking obvious.
5
SPEAKER_01
Then of course, it s a great story.
5
SPEAKER_01
He s got this hernia.
5
SPEAKER_01
It fucks up his entire abdomen.
5
SPEAKER_01
He s got to get surgery and it destroys you.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then even when I m watching your comeback in 2020, of course I m rooting for you.
5
SPEAKER_01
You re the hero of my movie.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I m looking and I m like, you ve done a good job on the abs, but that ship sailed.
5
SPEAKER_00
And that s the problem that the athlete has to remember.
5
SPEAKER_00
You re being compared against your old self.
5
SPEAKER_00
To you.
5
SPEAKER_00
Which is fucked up because you re supposed to be compared to the people you re standing next to.
5
SPEAKER_00
When Michael Jordan came back and he played for the Wizards,
5
SPEAKER_00
Still at all-star numbers, but we re like, yeah, but he s not like MJ.
5
SPEAKER_00
He s shitting me.
5
SPEAKER_00
He s still playing at a high level, but they only criticize the best for me in that particular show.
5
SPEAKER_00
So I had 27 month layout between 2018 Olympia and 2020 Olympia.
5
SPEAKER_00
because of the surgery.
5
SPEAKER_00
And during that time, I hadn t seen Hany, especially during COVID.
5
SPEAKER_00
He had lost his father.
5
SPEAKER_00
I just know in my heart, he was in his own funk and he just did not want to leave.
5
SPEAKER_00
He didn t travel.
5
SPEAKER_00
Normally he would travel, we d meet up, we d figure these things out.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I m not making excuses.
5
SPEAKER_00
These are just things that happen that normally wouldn t.
5
SPEAKER_00
And we missed.
5
SPEAKER_00
It was the one time in my freaking career
5
SPEAKER_00
where the diet toward the end, some decisions were made, and when you miss in this sport, you lose.
5
SPEAKER_00
It just sucks.
5
SPEAKER_00
The meticulousness of it is insane.
5
SPEAKER_00
It is insane.
5
SPEAKER_00
The water drop.
5
SPEAKER_01
Water drop.
5
SPEAKER_00
The water drop means normally when you re training for a competition, you want to keep your body hydrated.
5
SPEAKER_00
So you re drinking, for me, a gallon and a half to two gallons of water per day.
5
SPEAKER_00
You re splitting it up.
5
SPEAKER_00
You re not just drinking all at once.
5
SPEAKER_00
Chugging.
5
SPEAKER_00
I have like a 25-ounce shaker cup, and I would just fill that up, and I d drink that like every 90 minutes.
5
SPEAKER_00
So I had it on a clock.
5
SPEAKER_00
and you re running through the freaking bathroom.
5
SPEAKER_01
This whole day is getting through it.
5
SPEAKER_01
Give her an example.
5
SPEAKER_01
What s your weight at before you start cutting and then on the stage?
5
SPEAKER_00
So I d be 280 pounds.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m 5 9 , and I get all the way down to 246, 248.
5
SPEAKER_01
From the water and the pee?
5
SPEAKER_00
No, no, no, no.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s just from the diet alone.
5
SPEAKER_00
So like right before the show, I d be low 250s, and then we would call it drop the hammer, do like a water depletion.
5
SPEAKER_00
Diuretics?
5
SPEAKER_00
We play around with that a little bit, but unfortunately, diuretics can kill you.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s blood pressure meds.
5
SPEAKER_00
You give that to people that have excessive fluids, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
So where bodybuilders F up their bodies, especially their physique, how it looks, typical person would say, oh yeah, just continue to drink your water however you want, eat within certain parameters, you can still salt your food, just take the diuretics, man, you ll be fine.
5
SPEAKER_00
You don t wanna do that because if you miss, you re gonna look like you never died a day in your life and you re creating a huge freaking problem that you do not wanna be going to the hospital.
5
SPEAKER_00
for this dehydration, and then your body rebounds, and then it s even 10 times worse.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then you become holding water.
5
SPEAKER_00
You re messing up your kidneys at this point.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s just stupid.
5
SPEAKER_00
So our thing was, if we got to over-diet a little bit, maybe lose a couple pounds of muscle just to get through that extra layer of fat, that marbling of fat, so be it.
5
SPEAKER_00
Because then,
5
SPEAKER_00
When you do the water depletion, so as you re going from two gallons to a gallon and a half to one gallon to half a gallon, you re increasing your carbohydrates because it takes a certain amount of water to process one carb.
5
SPEAKER_00
You gotta be a chemist.
5
SPEAKER_00
So you re doing this for, and then you realize, wait a minute, if I time this right, I don t need a diuretic, which in fact will keep your blood pressure correct, so then you can get a pump.
5
SPEAKER_00
But if you screw up and you rely on the diuretics, low blood pressure,
5
SPEAKER_00
How are you going to get a pump?
5
SPEAKER_00
So these guys, they say, oh, I look flat.
5
SPEAKER_00
So now they re overeating.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then as you re doing that, your stomach gets bloated because of the fact that you got too much food in your system without enough water and you haven t taken a shit.
5
SPEAKER_00
So therefore, you know, people think it s always because of this growth hormone or insulin or whatever it is.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s like, no, dude, the guy hasn t taken a poop.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s simpler than that.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it s.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s very simple.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s like the guy s bloated because he s trying to eat all this food because he knows that it s going to help with the glycogen storage and it s going to make his muscles pop.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s just a complete disaster.
5
SPEAKER_00
So like in 2020, it just didn t work out for me.
5
SPEAKER_00
And normally if I missed a little bit, I could rebound on that Saturday night because it s a two day comp.
5
SPEAKER_00
But this time it was just like, yeah, of course, everybody thinks they should have placed at least one slot higher.
5
SPEAKER_00
I still think I could have got second.
5
SPEAKER_00
But even then, it doesn t matter.
5
SPEAKER_00
At the end of the day, it s the Olympia or nothing.
5
SPEAKER_00
And the best part about it, and you ll see this in breaking the Olympia, is that in 2008, I did my first Michigan Olympia.
5
SPEAKER_00
I placed third.
5
SPEAKER_00
In 2020, I placed third.
5
SPEAKER_01
I know you don t like it, but on the outside, for a story, it s nice and neat.
5
SPEAKER_01
There s something about bookending that, that s kind of sweet.
5
SPEAKER_01
I like it.
5
SPEAKER_01
I came to grips with that right away.
5
SPEAKER_01
I didn t know how much of it was performative or how sincere it was, but you seemed to take it pretty well.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, I had to because we had already been filming Breaking Olympia years prior.
5
SPEAKER_00
And in 2019, we were done.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then COVID happened.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, I just watched the 2019 Olympia.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I thought right then and there, I could have won that.
5
SPEAKER_00
COVID.
5
SPEAKER_00
This is an antagonist that I kind of need.
5
SPEAKER_00
So what if I win that?
5
SPEAKER_00
Because there s those type of people like a John Elway that wins the two Super Bowls and rise off in the sunset.
5
SPEAKER_00
If I had friends that were like, dude, you already won seven, you re tired of Schwarzenegger, you can coin that and walk away.
5
SPEAKER_00
And end on top.
5
SPEAKER_00
And end on top, because the average person would say, I would have just ended on top.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I d say, yeah, you fucking would have.
5
SPEAKER_00
And in fact, you would have probably stopped at one.
5
SPEAKER_00
Right.
5
SPEAKER_00
Because of the risk of the unknown, and finding out who the fuck you really are, and knowing that someone may get left behind.
5
SPEAKER_00
and all of the stress and the pressure and the sleepless nights in the early mornings.
5
SPEAKER_00
But to me, it was all worth it because at least I could say two times I went for number eight.
5
SPEAKER_00
Right now in bodybuilding, there s no one in the world that can say, I m going to try to tie the all-time record.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s going to take some time.
5
SPEAKER_00
So I wanted to give my best on a shot.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I had a friend in Dwayne Johnson.
5
SPEAKER_00
He and I had some intimate conversations about his career in wrestling, how he had to step away at one point to focus on other things.
5
SPEAKER_00
And what that meant.
5
SPEAKER_01
By the way, it s also worth pointing out, he has the same inciting incident as you and Ronnie and everyone, which is Ronnie s football career didn t work out, your basketball and The Rock s football career didn t work out.
5
SPEAKER_01
And we pivoted and we leveraged it.
5
SPEAKER_01
This is a great time to say it.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I said it to my 10 year old, because you re watching all these guys, Jay Cutler s in it a lot, who won four times.
5
SPEAKER_01
Ronnie Coleman s in it.
5
SPEAKER_01
You re in it.
5
SPEAKER_01
They go to The Rock.
5
SPEAKER_01
I said out loud, I m like, oh my God, The Rock looks small, doesn t he?
5
SPEAKER_01
And Lincoln s like, oh my God, he does.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m like, oh my God, this is fucking insane that you just adjust to what you re seeing.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then they show the rock and he kind of looked normal.
5
SPEAKER_01
That is so weird.
5
SPEAKER_01
He s not a normal dude, trust me.
5
SPEAKER_00
This guy ain t normal, man.
5
SPEAKER_00
No!
5
SPEAKER_00
He s a big dude.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes!
5
SPEAKER_00
We trained together at Iron Paradise.
5
SPEAKER_00
I feel very privileged to say that I trained there with them.
5
SPEAKER_00
You re probably dying to get down to Black Mold Paradise just below me.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, Dex has Black Mold Paradise downstairs.
5
SPEAKER_00
I don t want that.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yes, you re going into Black Mold and you re gonna get those spores.
5
SPEAKER_00
No, I don t want that.
5
SPEAKER_00
But yeah, it s wild because we re all just trying to be the best versions of ourselves through life s challenges.
5
SPEAKER_00
And in Breaking Olympia, I mean, you re able to see myself, but then also, like you said, I mean, you get to hear from other athletes in there.
5
SPEAKER_00
We all have to give up something, and it s all to be remembered.
5
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, I m really glad you re really well versed in the Ronnie Coleman doc because we had seen it in the other day.
5
SPEAKER_01
I ve had a lot of people I ve gotten to ask this question to the real takeaway for me of the Coleman doc is you re watching him wake up at four and go to the gym and he can t walk and he has to train still.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I love him, but I m watching that and I go,
6
SPEAKER_00
Man, our identities are so tricky.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
This man might kill himself because he can t be small.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t even think it s the size aspect.
6
SPEAKER_01
I just think, actually, I know that Ronnie Coleman loves being Mr. Olympia.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s what drove him.
6
SPEAKER_00
Well, it saved him also.
6
SPEAKER_01
I d say so.
6
SPEAKER_01
He inspired all of us through his body of work.
6
SPEAKER_01
This is a man in 2004 that guest posed.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s called the NPC Rocky Mountain Championships in Denver, Colorado at East High School.
6
SPEAKER_01
I saw him there signing autographs in the morning.
6
SPEAKER_01
I waited two hours then and decided, okay, I ll see him at the night show.
6
SPEAKER_01
I got to go get something to eat.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I waited two and a half more hours to get his autograph that night.
6
SPEAKER_01
I made sure I was the last person.
6
SPEAKER_01
I just wanted to be the last guy.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I bought four 8x10 autographs from him.
6
SPEAKER_01
It wasn t one of those moments where I was like, you ll know my name one day.
6
SPEAKER_01
It wasn t even about that.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m just a fucking fan.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I m just observing like how he carried himself as a professional, how he smiled and answered questions.
6
SPEAKER_01
And lo and behold, that following year, obviously I turned pro and I ended up having to cover Flex.
6
SPEAKER_01
I ended up watching him compete for number eight in 05 in Las Vegas, only to figure out that Hany Rambod was one of his best friends.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I had met Hany a month prior and we just clicked right away.
6
SPEAKER_01
So Hany saw me at an after party, decided to say, Hey, come hang out with us.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m like,
6
SPEAKER_01
I get to hang out with Ronnie fucking Coleman after you just won number eight.
6
SPEAKER_01
And to fast forward and seeing Ronnie Coleman at my after party, seeing Ronnie Coleman guest pose and then slowly on the decline with his hips, with his neck and back.
6
SPEAKER_01
He s had, I guess, 12 back surgeries.
6
SPEAKER_01
This hardware for back surgery, it s got to be specific for a person s size, but I don t think they could take into account his type of muscle.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, they re not designing shit for a guy that s 300 pounds of muscle.
6
SPEAKER_01
They needed some vibranium.
6
SPEAKER_01
They needed something futuristic because I know having two hernia surgeries that my second one was worse than the first one and then when they put that mesh in but I had titanium staples in mine and second time I popped one of the staples out through my own skin.
6
SPEAKER_01
I had to go back into surgery for 20 minutes just to get it pulled out.
6
SPEAKER_01
So I know if that can happen to me on that small scale, I can only imagine Ronnie.
6
SPEAKER_01
Cause Ronnie had a surgery and within 90 minutes, two hours later, they throw him back in because he already broke through the heartwork.
6
SPEAKER_01
His body is just different than anyone else in the fucking world.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I ve watched it.
6
SPEAKER_01
I never got to compete against him, but I got to see him up close competing against Jay Cutler.
6
SPEAKER_01
I was there when he won his eighth.
6
SPEAKER_01
I was there when he lost to Jay and the torch was passed on.
6
SPEAKER_01
I was there when Ronnie Coleman retired on stage.
6
SPEAKER_01
There was not a dry eye in that place.
6
SPEAKER_01
He was the best steward of that.
6
SPEAKER_01
God bless Ronnie Coleman, man, because he ultimately just loved being Mr. Olympia, and that s why he still trains.
6
SPEAKER_00
When you re watching, I m going to make you go deep.
6
SPEAKER_00
It is heartbreaking to watch him hurt himself.
6
SPEAKER_00
You don t see him hurt himself in the gym.
6
SPEAKER_01
You just know that s not good for the back and what he s dealing with.
6
SPEAKER_01
You don t think of it like that.
6
SPEAKER_01
You watch him squat 800 pounds.
6
SPEAKER_01
And he does it for more than one rep.
6
SPEAKER_01
He puts on a squat suit.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s during the Costa Redemption.
6
SPEAKER_01
So Ronnie Coleman had won the 2002 Mr. Olympia.
6
SPEAKER_01
There was a guy by the name of Gunter Schlierkamp who got fifth, who then went on tour, I want to say like a month later, and beat Ronnie Coleman at the GNC show of strength.
6
SPEAKER_01
Anytime that happens,
6
SPEAKER_01
Everybody thinks he s vulnerable.
6
SPEAKER_01
Ronnie Coleman can be beaten.
6
SPEAKER_01
What did Ronnie Coleman do?
6
SPEAKER_01
He went back in the gym and said, that shit ain t ever gonna happen again.
6
SPEAKER_01
And that s when he did this DVD called The Cost of Redemption.
6
SPEAKER_01
You need to fucking watch this.
6
SPEAKER_01
He did the most uncanny weight.
6
SPEAKER_01
In one leg session, this guy s doing 800 pound squat.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think he got it for three.
6
SPEAKER_01
He said he could have got it for more.
6
SPEAKER_01
And then he did like a 2,300 pound leg press.
6
SPEAKER_01
And he s doing this for a set of 10 during the same.
6
SPEAKER_01
This workout will never be duplicated because you might be able to do the workout, but you won t look like him while doing it.
6
SPEAKER_01
You won t have that muscle.
6
SPEAKER_01
You might just be a strong ass dude.
6
SPEAKER_01
You d be like one of these strong men.
6
SPEAKER_01
But you wouldn t have the definition.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think those are the workouts collectively over time that you re going to have compression.
6
SPEAKER_01
He slipped a disc in one of his back workouts.
6
SPEAKER_01
And of course that happens.
6
SPEAKER_01
He didn t have the same recovery protocol.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think that he would have had maybe today.
6
SPEAKER_00
Jay Cutler s in the dock and he said, look, we do it differently now.
6
SPEAKER_00
We don t do the heavyweight.
6
SPEAKER_00
We do more reps.
6
SPEAKER_00
Still heavy.
6
SPEAKER_01
Just for context for everybody.
6
SPEAKER_01
Like it s still fucking heavy.
6
SPEAKER_01
We re not doing 800 pound squat, but we re not Ronnie Coleman.
6
SPEAKER_01
No, Ronnie Coleman s in a league of his own.
6
SPEAKER_01
You know, you re taking like your best lift.
6
SPEAKER_01
Let s say you re saying, Oh man, I could bench 500 pounds.
6
SPEAKER_01
He s like 500 pounds.
6
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
6
SPEAKER_01
I ll do that for 12.
6
SPEAKER_01
I can only do that for a single.
6
SPEAKER_01
All in one workout.
6
SPEAKER_01
He could do like 200 pound dumbbell presses in one hand.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s not just one exercise.
6
SPEAKER_01
He s doing that plus incline dumbbell press.
6
SPEAKER_01
He s a superhero.
6
SPEAKER_01
No bullshit He is a superhero you ask him.
6
SPEAKER_01
Would you change up anything?
6
SPEAKER_00
He says no He seems to be at peace with it But I guess on the outside what I wanted to say is like, you know, you d be loved by everyone no matter what size you were I would want him to hear that and believe that and
6
SPEAKER_01
You think that s what it was, though, or just the pursuit of, I m going to go as far as I can?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, maybe.
6
SPEAKER_00
Maybe I m totally wrong.
6
SPEAKER_00
I think that s what it was.
6
SPEAKER_00
I just know what it s like for me to have an identity, and that s why people like me.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I m wrong all the time.
6
SPEAKER_00
Turns out people like me for way different reasons than I think.
6
SPEAKER_00
That could be part of it, maybe.
6
SPEAKER_00
I have to ask them.
6
SPEAKER_01
But I will say that Ronnie Coleman has still one of the longest queues at an expo you ll ever see.
6
SPEAKER_00
So even with him in a wheelchair, he s also eating Oxy80s like fucking M&Ms.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I m an ex-opiate addict.
6
SPEAKER_00
The amount of fucking opiates he has to be on to exist, it s not ideal.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s not ideal.
6
SPEAKER_01
You can tell there s a point in time where you re doing interviews and speech is definitely compromised.
6
SPEAKER_00
How old is he?
6
SPEAKER_00
He s paying a price.
6
SPEAKER_01
Is he turning?
6
59?
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, he s turning 60.
6
SPEAKER_01
Big birthday year.
6
SPEAKER_01
Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.
6
SPEAKER_00
I ask you all this because you have this huge transition that you re in the middle of.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I m wondering what stuff is hard for you.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like, A, let s just go through, you had a regiment that was so time consuming that there wasn t space for you to be wandering.
6
SPEAKER_00
Right.
6
SPEAKER_00
What should I be doing?
6
SPEAKER_00
There was no time for that.
6
SPEAKER_00
You now have this time to contemplate where you re at in life, which can lead to depression.
6
SPEAKER_00
There s all this stuff.
6
SPEAKER_00
You are the best.
6
SPEAKER_00
Now you re retired.
6
SPEAKER_00
How big do you stay?
6
SPEAKER_00
This is a question you have to be wondering.
6
SPEAKER_00
I have to imagine for you, it s really heavy on your plate.
6
SPEAKER_01
When I decided to do a bodybuilding show, I think of every freaking scenario, every permutation possible.
6
SPEAKER_01
I have to, because it s not just me involved, it s my wife involved, it s friends, it s family, people who you lean on for assistance, for resources.
6
SPEAKER_01
I know in my whole being, I could compete and be highly competitive at the Olympia level, if not win another one.
6
SPEAKER_01
I have to fight that demon every time I go to the gym.
6
SPEAKER_01
So it was to a point where I have not been to the gym
6
SPEAKER_01
Ladies and gentlemen, I haven t been to the gym for one consecutive month since I trained for that last show.
6
SPEAKER_01
Part of it was because I needed to know who I was aside from the weightlifting.
6
SPEAKER_01
So like we re talking about going deep.
6
SPEAKER_01
I had to figure this out because majority of people go to the gym as a band-aid for their problems.
6
SPEAKER_01
Why not just rip the Band-Aid off and see who you really are?
6
SPEAKER_01
But that s the problem.
6
SPEAKER_01
People may lack the discipline or the space to then not go into complete darkness and drugs, alcohol, women, gambling, just mistreating your whole soul.
6
SPEAKER_01
And yeah, I had moments where I was unsure of myself.
6
SPEAKER_01
I know that I m supposed to be this massive entrepreneur.
6
SPEAKER_01
I know I m supposed to be this public global speaker.
6
SPEAKER_01
I ve done that even while I was competing.
6
SPEAKER_01
But now I m talking about perseverance in a different way.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m reapplying what I know.
6
SPEAKER_01
And knowing that I have a great future, but oh shit, I m starting to feel like I m back in this basketball scenario again.
6
SPEAKER_01
So let s not allow it to happen.
6
SPEAKER_01
Let s now unpack everything.
6
SPEAKER_01
This is going to take a lot of fucking time.
6
SPEAKER_01
Thank God for breaking Olympia.
6
SPEAKER_01
We ended up doing more interviews because you realize that you re not going deep enough.
6
SPEAKER_01
And although it costs money, it was worth it because I wanted to be my most vulnerable, authentic self for the viewers because I needed them to see me as a man.
6
SPEAKER_01
I needed people to see me beyond just a bodybuilder.
6
SPEAKER_01
I needed them to understand that this is not a story about protein shakes and steroids.
6
SPEAKER_01
This is about a man s journey to find himself and love himself through the hardest battles of his life.
6
SPEAKER_00
Well, my favorite stuff is you copying to the Instagram addiction, how easily you get ensnared in it.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m like, oh man, I relate to that.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
I know about reading comments and clapping back and going, why on earth am I giving that person attention?
6
SPEAKER_00
When there s all these people that said they loved you that you just hearted.
6
SPEAKER_01
You know, I got millions of people that love me and I don t care about that, but I care about this jackass living in mom s basement.
6
SPEAKER_01
Or maybe he s just a person that doesn t live in mom s basement.
6
SPEAKER_01
I don t know what his life is.
6
SPEAKER_01
We don t know.
6
SPEAKER_01
So we don t need to care.
6
SPEAKER_01
Right.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s because, yeah, I carry insecurity.
6
SPEAKER_01
But you know, it s funny when people say, oh, you re insecure.
6
SPEAKER_01
Fuck yeah, I am.
6
SPEAKER_01
Really want to know why?
6
SPEAKER_01
Because I give a shit.
6
SPEAKER_01
I twist these different definitions like, oh, you re insecure.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
That keeps me going.
6
SPEAKER_01
That keeps me not satisfied.
6
SPEAKER_01
See, you re.
7
SPEAKER_01
Security got you in a box.
7
SPEAKER_01
You re comfortable.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s why you don t have what you truly desire.
7
SPEAKER_01
Because you re scared because you know that on the outside of that secure box is insecurity, is the unknown, is the problems, is the shit that you got to deal with.
7
SPEAKER_01
And removing bodybuilding for me allowed me an opportunity, just like COVID.
7
SPEAKER_01
When COVID hit, what did people do?
7
SPEAKER_01
They drank, domestic violence increased, bad habits and bad patterns increased.
7
SPEAKER_01
For me, I looked at it as an opportunity to realize, okay, Phil, you have a lot of demons, dude.
7
SPEAKER_01
You re not going to the gym and you re like scratching.
7
SPEAKER_01
You re an addict.
7
SPEAKER_01
You need to go to the gym.
7
SPEAKER_01
When times got rough, I d tell my wife, I need to go to the gym.
7
SPEAKER_01
I need to go to the gym.
7
SPEAKER_01
She d be like, no, you have these things you got to do.
7
SPEAKER_01
You know, you re coming out of body.
7
SPEAKER_01
And then I had to sit with it and be calm.
7
SPEAKER_01
And I had to get on my knees and just scream, pound the pavement.
7
SPEAKER_01
What is my purpose?
7
SPEAKER_01
What am I supposed to do right now?
7
SPEAKER_01
I know what it takes to be Mr. Olympia.
7
SPEAKER_01
I don t know what it takes to be Phil Heath.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s just different.
7
SPEAKER_01
So like, what does this mean?
7
SPEAKER_01
Who am I supposed to impact?
7
SPEAKER_01
And as you re saying these things, you already fucking have the answer.
7
SPEAKER_01
You re just too afraid to let this other part go.
7
SPEAKER_01
And then realize that me letting go of basketball allowed me to become a better bodybuilder because I was able to bring
7
SPEAKER_01
All the attributes that got me to be a division one athlete into bodybuilding, being a self starter, being raised as an only child.
7
SPEAKER_01
No one had to tell me how to train being coachable.
7
SPEAKER_01
I got to use it to my advantage.
7
SPEAKER_01
Now I have to do the same thing with life.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m going to add though, a lot of people wrestle with this.
7
SPEAKER_00
A lot of people, they re the vice president of a company and that s how they relate to everyone.
7
SPEAKER_00
And that feels good.
7
SPEAKER_00
I get it.
7
SPEAKER_00
When they walk out on the street, it s not that everywhere they went, people knew they were a vice president.
7
SPEAKER_00
So when they quit being a vice president, it s not that everyone s going to visually be able to look at them.
7
SPEAKER_00
So you ve had this, I would say it s very compounded identity wise, is that you re enormous.
7
SPEAKER_00
You have a very visual representation of your identity, more than a lawyer has or a doctor.
7
SPEAKER_00
So I think it s very compounded for you.
7
SPEAKER_00
I can t imagine when I m 62 and I have spaghetti arms.
7
SPEAKER_00
I am assuming for you, it s got to be a thousand X of what I even wrestle with.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s quite relative.
7
SPEAKER_01
But then again, that s a lot of energy, dude.
7
SPEAKER_01
I got to compare myself to seven times.
7
SPEAKER_01
Like, wasn t that the whole point, Phil?
7
SPEAKER_01
Well, we
7
SPEAKER_00
We know that intellectually, but then there s an emotional side of us.
7
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s still eight years old.
7
SPEAKER_00
What I m really curious about is how do you see your body going forward?
7
SPEAKER_00
What s the smallest you could be where you wouldn t be like, oh my God, I ve evaporated.
7
SPEAKER_01
Probably when I m dying, I guess, you know, that s how I look at it.
7
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I had a succession plan.
7
SPEAKER_01
By the time you re 45, you re probably going to weigh this.
7
SPEAKER_01
When you re 50, you re going to weigh this.
7
SPEAKER_01
When you re 55, you re going to weigh this.
7
SPEAKER_01
And now it s more, you can weigh whatever you want as long as your blood work says this.
7
SPEAKER_01
Oh, that s great.
7
SPEAKER_01
Your physical says this.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s all that matters because those numbers don t lie.
7
SPEAKER_01
Like if your cholesterol is high, it don t matter if you re 190 or 290.
7
SPEAKER_01
You need to see your calcium heart score.
7
SPEAKER_01
You need to do all that shit.
7
SPEAKER_01
But I will say me being 280 pounds, it requires so much effort that I recognize that s not necessary to be an iconic figure in the sport of bodybuilding.
7
SPEAKER_01
More people see me happier.
7
SPEAKER_01
You re probably more fun to go to dinner with now.
7
SPEAKER_01
I was always fun to go out with.
7
SPEAKER_01
I think the problem was that recently I heard an interview with David Goggins and David Goggins was talking about how he has this stare and people think that he s just being a dick when really he ain t even thinking about you.
7
SPEAKER_01
You re not even in the room.
7
SPEAKER_01
He s thinking about everything else he s got to do.
7
SPEAKER_01
So I ve been doing that for my whole adult life.
7
SPEAKER_01
So I think by being misunderstood, that s what people got.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s like the late Kobe Bryant.
7
SPEAKER_01
He had that stare too.
7
SPEAKER_01
He could be sitting on the bench and he s already hyper focusing on what he needs to do.
7
SPEAKER_01
And you have Chris Rock in the background.
7
SPEAKER_01
There s a video.
7
SPEAKER_01
of Chris Rock just talking to Kobe during a game and Kobe s just like locked in.
7
SPEAKER_01
He doesn t even budge.
7
SPEAKER_01
I understand that.
7
SPEAKER_01
I know what that silence is like in the midst of competition where the decibels are over a hundred and you hear nothing but your own heart and what you need to fucking do to get the job done.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s so freaking powerful, but my obligation is to my greater purpose.
7
SPEAKER_01
My greater purpose is to be able to share the fact that you can transition away from the sport of bodybuilding
7
SPEAKER_01
looking at guys like Arnold as your muse and saying, if I could just come close to that, that would feel freaking great.
7
SPEAKER_01
I ve been so fortunate to train next to Arnold.
7
SPEAKER_01
I never trained with him when I was competing, but to go to his show in Ohio, to go to his show recently in England, and his people hit me up and say, Arnold would like to train with you.
7
SPEAKER_01
Fuck yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
This is sick.
7
SPEAKER_01
This is so much fun.
7
SPEAKER_01
And to be acknowledged as also a seven time, I get to share that.
7
SPEAKER_01
I now get to build on a relationship like that.
7
SPEAKER_01
I don t need to go back to be somebody.
7
SPEAKER_01
I already am.
7
SPEAKER_00
You didn t lose it.
7
SPEAKER_00
Right.
7
SPEAKER_01
It didn t go away.
7
SPEAKER_01
No, but the mindset, the passion.
7
SPEAKER_00
I ve been around Arnold a lot as well.
7
SPEAKER_00
The one thing I really hope you can take from him is when you re around Arnold, he is not 260 anymore.
7
SPEAKER_00
He s an older man.
7
SPEAKER_00
He is still the barbarian to me.
7
SPEAKER_00
You re so right.
7
SPEAKER_00
But you don t assume that for yourself.
7
SPEAKER_00
You don t give yourself that same grace, which is like, no, no, when I m with Arnold, I m like, that s Conan the Barbarian.
7
SPEAKER_01
He s in really good shape and he s having fun and he s doing his thing.
7
SPEAKER_00
He s not what he was, but he is always what he was to me, because I love him.
7
SPEAKER_00
This one s going to be the hardest, but I need you to know where I m coming from beforehand.
7
SPEAKER_00
I am so pro bodybuilding.
7
SPEAKER_00
I love it.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m not someone that s like- Oh, lay it on me.
7
SPEAKER_00
Okay, okay.
7
SPEAKER_00
And this is about retirement or the new identity.
7
SPEAKER_00
So I m on testosterone.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m probably going to take it the rest of my life.
7
SPEAKER_00
I love how I feel on it.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m way more energetic.
7
SPEAKER_00
Probably better to be around.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
I started six years ago.
7
SPEAKER_00
I was ready to retire.
7
SPEAKER_00
And then I started taking it.
7
SPEAKER_00
And then we started this show.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I just love how it makes me feel.
7
SPEAKER_00
Now, that s got to be in the mix.
7
SPEAKER_00
How are you deciding what you ll hang on to chemically?
7
SPEAKER_01
Oh, that s easy.
7
SPEAKER_01
I was fortunate to get with a company called Transcend.
7
SPEAKER_01
out of Auburn Hills, Michigan, and their main focus was to help people stay optimal.
7
SPEAKER_01
And I never partnered with a company of any sorts when it comes to hormones ever in my career, because I never believed that they were doing things the right way.
7
SPEAKER_00
And with these guys... Well, it s a very tricky thing, because I ve had a lot of actors in here that are clearly on a lot of stuff.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I don t bring it up because they re not trying to tell a kid they should do what they did.
7
SPEAKER_00
I understand the pressure.
7
SPEAKER_00
And it s very hard to be honest about it.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m one of the few people to tell you I m on testosterone.
7
SPEAKER_00
Almost no actor will tell you that.
7
SPEAKER_01
You want to know what my goal was when I turned pro back in the day?
7
SPEAKER_01
Was that one day we could have this conversation openly and not have it be so dark and- Stigmatized.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
You want to be optimal, right?
7
SPEAKER_01
So this is what you do.
7
SPEAKER_01
We re not saying that, first and foremost, just because you take testosterone, you re going to be Ronnie Coleman.
7
SPEAKER_01
You re going to be Phil Heath.
7
SPEAKER_01
Get the fuck out of here with that right away.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s the problem because you get guys that are not committed, not disciplined, don t have the genetics, don t have the work ethic, and would say,
7
SPEAKER_01
Well, if I did that, I would be like him.
7
SPEAKER_00
My tiny nothingness.
7
SPEAKER_00
I have dudes go like, yeah, if I was on testosterone, I m like, yeah, I also eat very specifically.
7
SPEAKER_00
I also work out six days a week.
7
SPEAKER_00
These are guys that like, they gotta stop.
7
SPEAKER_00
They think you can take this and look great.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I m like, give it a shot.
7
SPEAKER_00
Literally give it a shot, right?
7
SPEAKER_01
So me working with Transcend helps address a lot of those things and bring better awareness.
7
SPEAKER_01
So now I m on the other side of it.
7
SPEAKER_00
Well, cause you have different goals now.
7
SPEAKER_00
There was a protocol you had when you were Mr. Olympia that clearly as a retiree, and is that hard to say goodbye to?
7
SPEAKER_01
It s not hard at all because once you say you re done, you also realize what s ahead and what s ahead is greater health.
7
SPEAKER_01
Because what s the thing that happens when you turn pro?
7
SPEAKER_01
Oh, he s on all this stuff.
7
SPEAKER_01
And everybody thinks that they know what you re taking.
7
SPEAKER_01
When in fact, I took way less than you guys probably ever could imagine.
7
SPEAKER_01
There were certain compounds that I never even used.
7
SPEAKER_01
Just because you did it, doesn t mean that I did it.
7
SPEAKER_01
And it s all speculation.
7
SPEAKER_01
And there s guys that claim natty status and they clearly aren t.
7
SPEAKER_01
So you re better off just saying, I did what I did.
7
SPEAKER_01
You don t know what I did, but the results mattered.
7
SPEAKER_01
And my skin texture looks very nice and clean.
7
SPEAKER_01
You didn t see me all rashed out.
7
SPEAKER_01
Acne all over your back.
7
SPEAKER_01
That and the fact that you don t see all bumps and lumps in my physique.
7
SPEAKER_01
The muscle fibers still have its own integrity.
7
SPEAKER_01
If I flex my bicep right now, you see lines in there that you ain t gonna see from other people.
7
SPEAKER_01
And that s because I did things a certain way and I was able to use peptides that help reduce inflammation.
7
SPEAKER_01
I had those two hernia surgeries, so I needed something to get rid of that.
7
SPEAKER_01
I needed something to help with my gut microbiome.
7
SPEAKER_01
You got your second brain and your gut.
7
SPEAKER_01
So of course, me traveling around the world,
7
SPEAKER_01
I ve eaten everything in sight, have had intestinal parasites.
7
SPEAKER_01
I ve had all that.
7
SPEAKER_01
You need certain medications to help clear that out.
7
SPEAKER_01
Also, I had long COVID.
7
SPEAKER_01
I had COVID pneumonia.
7
SPEAKER_01
I was in the hospital for a week.
7
SPEAKER_01
So your cognitive delay is definitely apparent.
7
SPEAKER_01
I did remdesivir.
7
SPEAKER_01
I did all that shit just to get out of there.
7
SPEAKER_01
I was in bad shape.
7
SPEAKER_01
So to know that I m with a company now that I can have medications prescribed to me, that I can take with me everywhere, that are gonna help me stay optimal, help me have better mental clarity.
7
SPEAKER_01
I was not as clear as I am right now speaking with you with this type of verbiage three years ago.
7
SPEAKER_01
I had a torn MCL, I need to get back in the game.
7
SPEAKER_01
I have a company that can monitor these things and I have licensed wellness specialists along with my own specific doctor that I work with.
7
SPEAKER_01
So I do panels every three months.
7
SPEAKER_01
And fortunately for me, when I was competing, I always did panels.
7
SPEAKER_01
I did full Kim panel.
7
SPEAKER_01
I was the one that was spending more money than your bro at the gym.
7
SPEAKER_01
Just doing the bro science of like, Oh yeah, I m taking testosterone.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m doing EQ.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m doing trend.
7
SPEAKER_01
First and foremost, I did my first few competitions clean against guys that weren t.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s what taught me that I could beat a lot of people.
7
SPEAKER_01
I was regular saying.
8
SPEAKER_00
and beating Super Saiyans, man, like I was already that dude.
8
SPEAKER_00
I now promote a company that says, look, before you decide to make this jump, let s, at the very least, look at your blood work and see if you re even deficient.
8
SPEAKER_00
Because a lot of people are just doing, especially kids.
8
SPEAKER_01
It wasn t even optimal, right?
8
SPEAKER_01
They go way above anything that would be helpful.
8
SPEAKER_00
You got kids on TikTok taking testosterone, taking Tremorone and stuff like that.
8
SPEAKER_00
They don t even need it.
8
SPEAKER_00
And they don t even know.
8
SPEAKER_00
And I ve said this time and time again, and I feel like this is my calling to tell these younger people.
8
SPEAKER_00
First of all, I got to tell the parents, you need to be more active in your kids  lives.
8
SPEAKER_00
You need to follow who they follow and what they re watching, just like how you would on the television.
8
SPEAKER_00
You need to know what they re liking on social media.
8
SPEAKER_00
because that ll give you a clear indication as to what the hell they re up to.
8
SPEAKER_00
So if they re liking certain people that produce social media content that have drugs involved, that are not prescribed, obviously, because you have to go to a doctor to go get these things.
8
SPEAKER_00
First of all, you re committing a crime.
8
SPEAKER_00
So you gotta know that part.
8
SPEAKER_00
And then the education part about it.
8
SPEAKER_00
If some people says, well, it s just a little testosterone this 20 year old s taking, it s like, but why is he taking it?
8
SPEAKER_00
Now we have to address the different psychological issue.
8
SPEAKER_00
We have to understand why does that matter?
8
SPEAKER_00
Is it because of the fact that this influencer over here is making a million dollars because he looks a certain way?
8
SPEAKER_00
Do you like Lane Norton by chance?
8
SPEAKER_00
Do you follow Lane?
8
SPEAKER_00
Oh, Bio Lane?
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_00
He s funny, dude.
8
SPEAKER_01
I love him.
8
SPEAKER_00
I ve become a greater fan of Lane over the years because he makes it his mission to just debate.
8
SPEAKER_00
And we need that.
8
SPEAKER_00
Annie is science first.
8
SPEAKER_00
For me, I don t have obviously that background, but I do have my own body to say like, for me, this is what worked.
8
SPEAKER_00
As a 44 year old male, I ll be 45 at the end of the year.
8
SPEAKER_00
I can use less and get more based on what s currently available through great company.
8
SPEAKER_00
understanding there s more science as far as the timing of things, just like there s nutrient timing with supplements, there s timing with certain medications.
8
SPEAKER_00
Once you can put all the pieces together, you can really make something magical happen, something very beautiful.
8
SPEAKER_00
So my advice to a lot of people that want to get into the hormones and stuff is that first of all, you got to get your blood work done.
8
SPEAKER_00
We already got to do that.
8
SPEAKER_00
And most guys don t want to do that because they re going to be told some things they don t want to hear.
8
SPEAKER_00
They re going to be told that your A1C is high.
8
SPEAKER_00
You know, you may be pre-diabetic, you drink too much, or you smoke too many cigarettes.
8
SPEAKER_00
So you can t just say, okay, I m going to get on testosterone.
8
SPEAKER_00
I m going to buy some stuff from some dealer at a gym, which is fucking illegal.
8
SPEAKER_00
And it s very reckless.
8
SPEAKER_00
You re just going to damage your body.
8
SPEAKER_00
Now for kids, you re fucking stupid.
8
SPEAKER_00
And I m saying this as your big brother, I want to put my arms around these kids, these young,
8
SPEAKER_00
18, 19, 20, 22 year old guys, PED, performance enhancing drug.
8
SPEAKER_00
They re not even competing in anything.
8
SPEAKER_00
So they re just doing it just to be doing it.
8
SPEAKER_00
And they re doing it just for social media.
8
SPEAKER_00
So that s not what champions do.
8
SPEAKER_00
What champions do, they figure out their diet, exhausting every other option.
8
SPEAKER_00
They are looking at delay gratification.
8
SPEAKER_00
They re understanding
8
SPEAKER_00
Recovery modalities.
8
SPEAKER_00
Here s one for you.
8
SPEAKER_00
How many influencers do you see online?
8
SPEAKER_00
Talk about the diet, the training.
8
SPEAKER_00
They can talk about PDs, but what s their recovery protocol?
8
SPEAKER_00
Not just cold plunges.
8
SPEAKER_00
We re talking about like real recovery protocols.
8
SPEAKER_00
We re talking about the infrared sauna.
8
SPEAKER_00
We re talking about the Vitaris 320, you know, the hyperbaric therapy.
8
SPEAKER_00
We re talking about DRX 9000 traction tables so that you don t have the compression that Ronnie Coleman had.
8
SPEAKER_00
We re talking about MLS laser therapy that actually helps stimulate the collagen production around the body parts.
8
SPEAKER_00
So then you have more collagen production, therefore more vasodilation.
8
SPEAKER_00
You know, you can actually inhibit more healing.
8
SPEAKER_00
Shockwave therapies, kind of the same thing.
8
SPEAKER_00
See, these are all the things that I was fucking doing.
8
SPEAKER_00
I m treating this body like an F1 car.
8
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
8
SPEAKER_00
You took it right out of my mouth.
8
SPEAKER_00
It s F1 all day because you got to know every little detail and you got to know why they work and how they work in certain sequence.
8
SPEAKER_00
And that s why you re able to see someone like myself in Breaking Olympia win all those titles.
8
SPEAKER_00
I m actually going to be training not for the Olympia, but for the Olympia.
8
SPEAKER_00
It s the 60th Mr. Olympia this year.
8
SPEAKER_00
I ve been commentating the Olympia for the last two years, and I m actually the same weekend as the Olympia, which will be back in Las Vegas.
8
SPEAKER_00
I m going to be inducted into the International Sports Hall of Fame.
8
SPEAKER_00
So I have this idea.
8
SPEAKER_00
that with Breaking Olympia releasing now, people are going to want to see what s going on.
8
SPEAKER_00
I got a lot of cool things ahead.
8
SPEAKER_00
I just think it would be funny as hell if I m commentating the show and I look kind of ripped.
8
SPEAKER_00
You know, imagine doing a pre-show and I just strip.
8
SPEAKER_00
I m like, this is what they need.
8
SPEAKER_00
They need the claws.
8
SPEAKER_00
They need the calves.
8
SPEAKER_00
I m black and I got calves.
8
SPEAKER_00
You need this.
8
SPEAKER_00
You need the lines on the biceps.
8
SPEAKER_00
This is for the viewers.
8
SPEAKER_00
Now, I m kind of putting myself out there even saying this on podcasts, but those are those things I m thinking, Phil, you don t have to do that.
8
SPEAKER_00
But you need goals.
8
SPEAKER_00
And I wouldn t be the competition Phil that people have seen.
8
SPEAKER_00
I want to show the transition, because no disrespect to eight-time Ronnie Coleman, people think that s what s going to happen to every person.
8
SPEAKER_00
I can be the example of that not being the case.
8
SPEAKER_00
Jay Culler, perfect example.
8
SPEAKER_00
So I think it s important to teach other guys, because I now implore a lot of other IFBB pro bodybuilders to create a plan.
8
SPEAKER_00
Be honest with yourself and say, look, man, what s your career earnings looking like right now?
8
SPEAKER_00
If majority of guys, not the women, because the income is not why they do it.
8
SPEAKER_00
A lot of women that compete, they may not make as much on stage, but they can make more online because girls will buy leggings, merch nonstop over guys.
8
SPEAKER_00
But with guys, I want them to just take a sheet of paper and write down their career earnings and then ask themselves how much money would they like to make.
8
SPEAKER_00
And what do they make with their sponsors?
8
SPEAKER_00
And then go through that hero s journey of saying, you re a bodybuilder, but you re also other things and list those other things.
8
SPEAKER_00
And those got to be your goals too.
8
SPEAKER_01
You got to fill that enormous void that s left behind.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_00
Otherwise you re going to be like Mickey Rourke in the wrestler.
8
SPEAKER_00
Like you re going to be that guy that just keeps coming back.
8
SPEAKER_00
And those judges got to move someone up and move someone down.
8
SPEAKER_00
We need a new story.
8
SPEAKER_00
They can t keep you up there forever.
8
SPEAKER_00
So your life expectancy, just the stress alone of doing shows, man, you re giving up stuff.
8
SPEAKER_00
You want to get to a point where maybe you re in your early forties like myself and realize I can still apply this crazy semi narcissistic
8
SPEAKER_00
attitude to something more productive that can serve a greater purpose.
8
SPEAKER_00
And technically my nickname is The Gift.
8
SPEAKER_00
Where am I giving?
8
SPEAKER_00
If I can give service, like even in this podcast, I m happy.
8
SPEAKER_00
If I can be of service to some person at a children s hospital, I m happy.
8
SPEAKER_00
If I can create a product or a service that s going to make you better, more confident, I m happy.
8
SPEAKER_00
Also having this documentary, every time I watch it, I tear up.
8
SPEAKER_00
To be able to see your life told like that, and it s worthy of that.
8
SPEAKER_01
And it has all my friends in it.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_00
Even guys that I didn t like.
8
SPEAKER_00
I didn t like Kai Green.
8
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I love Kai.
8
SPEAKER_01
That s a sweet story.
8
SPEAKER_00
Did you like the rivalry?
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
I had no idea it existed.
8
SPEAKER_01
I had seen Kai in other documentaries and I just liked his spirit.
8
SPEAKER_01
He seems like so sweet.
8
SPEAKER_01
Also, I didn t realize he even had that side.
8
SPEAKER_01
You guys are like pushing each other on stage.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
that called you, that shows his character?
8
SPEAKER_00
It was really impressive.
8
SPEAKER_00
That was a moment I ll never forget.
8
SPEAKER_00
And I remember telling my wife, I said, you know what s wild is that he was the only one.
8
SPEAKER_00
And I still feel this way.
8
SPEAKER_00
I would be the one, knock on wood, God forbid something bad happened to him.
8
SPEAKER_00
I d be by his bed.
8
SPEAKER_00
Because it s honor.
8
SPEAKER_00
Honor and respect go a long way with me.
8
SPEAKER_00
And he and I elevated the sport in a different way during the drop off with the magazines and the influx of social media.
8
SPEAKER_00
It was just incredible.
8
SPEAKER_00
Incredible.
8
SPEAKER_00
No, it s getting like UFC fight style the motion the shit talking Could you imagine if we would have fabricated some of that leaned in like if we would have leaned in real hard on that by the time I think that could have happened.
8
SPEAKER_00
He had moved away.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, there was so much more meat on that bone Yeah, no, it s crazy.
8
SPEAKER_01
You got the real sense like are these dudes gonna fight on stage or what?
8
SPEAKER_01
Are they gonna flex what s happening?
8
SPEAKER_01
What is this tournament about now?
8
SPEAKER_00
And if you walked in your house right now, I d be like get this fucker out of here
8
SPEAKER_00
We would say that, but no furniture would be moved.
8
SPEAKER_00
But it s just great to know someone that wanted something so bad that you can relate to.
8
SPEAKER_01
That s the thing is your enemy happens to also be the one of 10 dudes on planet earth that know exactly what your experience is.
8
SPEAKER_01
You re rivals, but it s bullshit.
8
SPEAKER_01
You guys have more in common than any two people standing anywhere on planet earth.
8
SPEAKER_00
It s like what Magneto and Professor X. You can t really be friends, but you can sit down, maybe have a chat.
8
SPEAKER_01
Well, Phil, this has been awesome.
8
SPEAKER_01
I love the documentary, Breaking Olympia.
8
SPEAKER_01
When does it come out?
8
SPEAKER_01
March 26th.
8
SPEAKER_00
Everywhere but Netflix.
8
SPEAKER_00
You got to watch it.
8
SPEAKER_00
I m pumping this up because I m just so happy.
8
SPEAKER_01
No, it s great.
8
SPEAKER_01
And my daughter loved it.
8
SPEAKER_00
There you go.
8
SPEAKER_01
I got the best endorsement because she came out and wanted to flex.
8
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
8
SPEAKER_00
She was pumped, man.
8
SPEAKER_00
She hit the most muscular.
8
SPEAKER_01
I know.
8
SPEAKER_01
She loved it.
8
SPEAKER_01
She s athletic.
8
SPEAKER_01
All right, well, Phil, what a pleasure talking to you.
8
SPEAKER_01
I wish you luck with everything and can t wait to watch this incredible transition that you re right in the middle of.
8
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
8
SPEAKER_01
Stay tuned to hear Miss Monica correct all the facts that were wrong.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s okay though, we all make mistakes.
8
SPEAKER_01
All right, we re ready?
8
SPEAKER_01
We re ready.
8
SPEAKER_01
Okay, perfect.
8
SPEAKER_01
You sleepy?
8
SPEAKER_01
I just got a little sleepy.
8
SPEAKER_01
I just had a yawn.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, the sun is not out, it s supposed to come out.
8
SPEAKER_01
Do you know that sun never once came out in seven days in Austin?
8
SPEAKER_01
Really?
8
SPEAKER_01
No, never.
8
SPEAKER_01
It was the most overcast I ve ever seen any place for seven days straight.
8
SPEAKER_01
That s weird.
8
SPEAKER_01
Resulting, though, in one good lightning storm on Saturday night.
8
SPEAKER_01
That s fun.
8
SPEAKER_01
That s really fun.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
It just, it says it s sunny.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
And that s a lie.
8
SPEAKER_01
That s a lie.
8
SPEAKER_01
Hmm, let me see if mine says sunny.
8
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, mine says literally the word sunny first thing that pops up.
8
SPEAKER_01
Bright sun.
8
SPEAKER_01
And that s not what we got outside.
8
SPEAKER_01
So much brightness of sun and it s a lie.
8
SPEAKER_01
It also says, it says it s unhealthy for sensitive groups right now.
8
SPEAKER_01
And that s me.
8
SPEAKER_01
That s weird.
9
SPEAKER_00
because it s been cool and overcast.
9
SPEAKER_00
Doesn t it feel like good air?
9
SPEAKER_00
I wonder if that s including all the pollen in the air.
9
SPEAKER_01
Good thing I m wearing sunscreen.
9
SPEAKER_01
So do you wear sunscreen every day?
9
SPEAKER_00
No, I don t.
9
SPEAKER_00
If I m going to be very, very exposed, I ll do my face and just my right arm with all my tattoos.
9
SPEAKER_01
That s if you re like out in the sun.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and more than just, like if I hike, no.
9
SPEAKER_00
No, I know.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh, people are gonna blast me for this.
9
SPEAKER_00
We ready?
9
SPEAKER_01
I m ready.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay, let s start with the fact that there was just no such thing as sunblock until 60 years ago.
9
SPEAKER_00
So somehow humans were living just fine.
9
SPEAKER_00
And then you might go, well, they were getting skin cancer a lot.
9
SPEAKER_01
Probably.
9
SPEAKER_01
They didn t know it was skin cancer.
9
SPEAKER_01
They just died.
9
SPEAKER_00
Well, that s true.
9
SPEAKER_00
I just, sometimes I have a hard time accepting that, like, we have to have this thing that we ve never ever had.
9
SPEAKER_00
Does that make any sense?
9
SPEAKER_00
Before you blast me.
9
SPEAKER_00
I m going to blast you on that.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay, but hold on.
9
SPEAKER_00
People didn t even have hats.
9
SPEAKER_00
They didn t have hats.
9
SPEAKER_00
They didn t have sunglasses.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, but people died.
9
SPEAKER_00
They lived outside.
9
SPEAKER_00
All I m saying is you have to recognize we were designed to be outside in the sun all day long without sunblock.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, for 30 years.
9
SPEAKER_00
No.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
No.
9
SPEAKER_01
People died or much younger.
9
SPEAKER_00
We have talked about this.
9
SPEAKER_00
That s a very misleading thing that gets bandied about.
9
SPEAKER_00
People lived till their 70s all the time.
9
SPEAKER_00
The infant mortality rate was so bad that it cuts the overall length of age in half.
9
SPEAKER_00
So if you were to get rid of the people that died before 10 years old, then looked at how long people lived at any point in human history, they re living to 60 and 70 still.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s very misleading.
9
SPEAKER_01
Well, whatever.
9
SPEAKER_00
You know, sometimes we go like, well, we have to have this thing.
9
SPEAKER_00
And it s like, well, it s okay to rewind like 100 years.
9
SPEAKER_00
No, we actually didn t have this thing, and we never have had this thing.
9
SPEAKER_00
And so the notion that we have to have it.
9
SPEAKER_00
Now, is it beneficial?
9
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
9
SPEAKER_00
Does it reduce skin cancer?
9
SPEAKER_00
I bet.
9
SPEAKER_00
But also, are almost all of us low in vitamin D?
9
SPEAKER_00
Yes, everyone I know that gets a blood panel finds out they re low in vitamin D.
9
SPEAKER_00
So that seems to be kind of pandemic levels of low vitamin D. So I go like, you re tossing up, do you want to be low in vitamin D your whole life or mitigate the chance of getting skin cancer?
9
SPEAKER_00
I don t know if there s been long enough term look at all this to see which one s worse.
9
SPEAKER_00
All that to say, I don t let myself get burnt.
9
SPEAKER_00
I never get burnt, ever.
9
SPEAKER_00
So however I m doing it, I m planning it pretty well.
9
SPEAKER_00
Like if I know I m gonna be outside for five hours, I ll put sunblock on.
9
SPEAKER_00
But if I take a hike and I m out for 90 minutes, I don t get burnt in that time.
9
SPEAKER_00
All right, let her rip.
9
SPEAKER_00
I ll sure hear about it in the comments.
9
SPEAKER_01
I mean, it helps with skin cancer, but also just your skin.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think I would have less wrinkles and would age more gracefully if I never let my face get tan.
9
SPEAKER_00
I acknowledge that.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s a huge part of skincare.
9
SPEAKER_00
People are super into skincare, like the sun s the devil.
9
SPEAKER_01
Exactly, yeah, it is.
9
SPEAKER_00
People are like, oh my God, I gotta get out of the sun.
9
SPEAKER_00
Which again, I just gotta remind everyone, we lived outside.
9
SPEAKER_00
We re like every animal.
9
SPEAKER_00
People didn t look young.
9
SPEAKER_01
Agreed.
9
SPEAKER_01
Our society is pretty obsessed with staying youthful and looking youthful.
9
SPEAKER_00
Agreed, agreed.
9
SPEAKER_01
Whether that s right or wrong, that is what a lot of us want.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I ll just observe some people that they re outdoors and they re getting sun on their face and you would think they were like an albino mole that lives underground.
9
SPEAKER_00
You are designed to live outside.
9
SPEAKER_00
Just throwing that out there as a reminder.
9
SPEAKER_01
I brought this up because I myself am not very good about sunscreen.
9
SPEAKER_00
Well, no, I feel like if I had your skin color, I would wear scum sunscreen because I would like to be a little tan.
9
SPEAKER_00
I look way better, a little tan.
9
SPEAKER_00
So if I m going to live in 50 sunblock, my face is going to be ghostly white with yellow spots all over it and Brown freckles and mess.
9
SPEAKER_00
But if I was had your base skin color, then maybe I wouldn t care as much.
9
SPEAKER_01
Well, I struggle, you know, it s like you wanna find a sunscreen that s not gonna break you out or that s for me the issue.
9
SPEAKER_01
So I skip it a lot because I m scared it s gonna mess my skin up.
9
SPEAKER_01
But I found one I m currently using that I like.
9
SPEAKER_01
It has a tint.
9
SPEAKER_01
You can also use tinted sunscreen so you get a little tint.
9
SPEAKER_00
Well, I use tinted Vicky Becky.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, moisturizer.
9
SPEAKER_01
There might be SPF in that.
9
SPEAKER_01
There might be.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh, well then I wear it.
9
SPEAKER_01
Okay, great.
9
SPEAKER_00
Let s assume so.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so I found a new one, and I m giving it a whirl.
9
SPEAKER_01
I m being better about it.
9
SPEAKER_00
Now wait, look, I know someone s gonna be listening who s lost a loved one to skin cancer, and they re gonna be so upset that I m saying this out loud.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, probably.
9
SPEAKER_00
Now, am I gonna dig myself deeper by pointing this out?
9
SPEAKER_01
Who do you wanna be in this world?
9
SPEAKER_00
Myself.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
9
SPEAKER_00
That s my dedication.
9
SPEAKER_01
Great.
9
SPEAKER_00
So, so myself speaking, yeah, if you lost a loved one to skin cancer, of course you would be very upset to hear someone be lackadaisical about it or not take it seriously.
9
SPEAKER_00
But I would, I just have to push back and go, but also more people died in car accidents.
9
SPEAKER_00
So we really do, we pick.
9
SPEAKER_01
But it s not about more people die versus, it s not, it s not zero sum.
9
SPEAKER_01
You can take care of your skin and wear sunscreen has nothing to do with car accidents.
9
SPEAKER_00
I m pointing out the paradox that people have lost someone they love to skin cancer.
9
SPEAKER_00
They feel like they should be telling people to always wear skin block.
9
SPEAKER_00
I acknowledge it.
9
SPEAKER_00
I d be the same, I m sure.
9
SPEAKER_00
But if you lose someone in a car accident, you don t tell everyone, you know, don t drive a car.
9
SPEAKER_01
You probably say you should wear a seatbelt.
9
SPEAKER_01
If you lost someone you love in a car accident, my guess is that you have strong feelings about seatbelts, and probably strong feelings about- But I mean, you can die with a seatbelt on.
9
SPEAKER_01
You can, but it s a lot safer, it s a lot less likely if you re while wearing a seatbelt, same with the sunscreen.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay, so then let s, you don t like that example.
9
SPEAKER_00
For me, people that die in car accidents die with seatbelts on.
9
SPEAKER_01
that a lot don t, a lot don t, a lot do.
9
SPEAKER_01
The preventative nature of a seatbelt can happen.
9
SPEAKER_00
I m just saying, you can wear a seatbelt and still die in a car accident.
9
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
9
SPEAKER_00
It doesn t inoculate you from death.
9
SPEAKER_01
You can wear sunscreen and get skin cancer.
9
SPEAKER_01
The whole point is helping your chances.
9
SPEAKER_00
Right, and then I m just saying, we go through the list and it s like, well, we d also be at heart disease way before we would be at skin cancer for total deaths.
9
SPEAKER_00
And so I don t like,
9
SPEAKER_00
Because my father died of heart disease and cancer, take your pick, they both happened at the same time.
9
SPEAKER_00
I don t like tap anyone on the shoulder who s eating too much fat and go like, hey, you know, my dad died of heart disease.
9
SPEAKER_00
You re going to get heart disease.
9
SPEAKER_01
Well, if that person is saying out loud, it doesn t matter, you might say that.
9
SPEAKER_01
You re painting a very specific circumstance where you are declaring something out loud, so you are inviting that.
9
SPEAKER_00
Here s exactly what I m saying.
9
SPEAKER_00
If you look at the five biggest killers in life, we don t ever feel entitled to tell those people not to do the things that lead to those five biggest killers.
9
SPEAKER_00
People aren t randomly policing each other online about what they re eating or that they re driving in a car or that they re doing any number of the many high probability sources of death.
9
SPEAKER_01
Well, I disagree.
9
SPEAKER_01
I think people are very vocal about very vocal about what people should be eating, what people shouldn t be eating.
9
SPEAKER_01
And also don t text and drive and don t like it s there s a lot of that out there, I see.
9
SPEAKER_01
But also, I agree.
9
SPEAKER_01
I don t think it s a great thing to just be constantly like.
9
SPEAKER_01
hey, watch out for this, this happened to me.
9
SPEAKER_01
Hey, watch out for this, this happened to me.
9
SPEAKER_01
But if someone is actively saying something to me that I know someone in my life died because of this, I would feel compelled to do that.
9
SPEAKER_01
I wouldn t just be putting it out there for no reason.
9
SPEAKER_01
In this specific case, you re speaking on sunscreen.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I guess I m probably not, I m not conveying the point I m making very well, clearly.
9
SPEAKER_00
I guess maybe if I were already actively making tons of decisions to prevent the most likely ways of dying, it would make sense that I would then get down to the 11th and 12th and the 15th and the 16th most likely.
9
SPEAKER_00
We re just looking at odds, and I m a logical human being who s trying to prevent my untimely death.
9
SPEAKER_00
The smartest way to go about that would go, what kills people the most?
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay, so I ve got a game plan for that.
9
SPEAKER_00
What kills people the second most?
9
SPEAKER_00
I got a game plan for that, right?
9
SPEAKER_00
I think a lot of people have pretty thorough game plans for number 28.
9
SPEAKER_01
It s being positioned as...
9
SPEAKER_01
You only have time for like four.
9
SPEAKER_01
So you re prioritizing, but you don t have to prioritize.
9
SPEAKER_00
Well, if you were logical, if you were just hardcore logic, you would start with the most likely thing to kill you.
9
SPEAKER_01
You can do it all.
9
SPEAKER_01
You can do all of it.
9
SPEAKER_01
Well, can you?
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
What is like taking 14 seconds to put sunscreen on in the morning going to do like,
10
SPEAKER_01
It has nothing to do with the other things.
10
SPEAKER_01
You can then do the other things.
10
SPEAKER_00
True, true.
10
SPEAKER_01
For the things that you think that are much higher on the list.
10
SPEAKER_00
I concede to that.
10
SPEAKER_00
I guess my point is I can see someone getting very wound up about me not using sunblock and not me driving a car.
10
SPEAKER_01
Sure.
10
SPEAKER_00
Which I do think there s some interesting
10
SPEAKER_00
I don t want to say hypocrisy there, but there is some interesting thing that s happening.
10
SPEAKER_01
I think if people are, are going to get on your case, specifically you for not wearing sunblock, like, you know, maybe relax.
10
SPEAKER_01
Cause it s not your, it s not your body who cares, but I feel that if you re saying sunblock doesn t matter, then that is going to cause someone to say something.
10
SPEAKER_00
No, I m not advising anyone to not wear sunblock.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_00
Everyone wear sunblock, and don t drive in a car, and don t eat saturated fat, and don t do, like, I can list the million things we shouldn t do if we wanna increase our odds of making it to 100, I guess.
10
SPEAKER_01
It s just risk reward.
10
SPEAKER_01
Driving in a car, the risk is worth it to most people.
10
SPEAKER_01
There s no risk to wearing sunscreen.
10
SPEAKER_01
There s nothing wrong with it.
10
SPEAKER_00
Well, for me, unless you re chronically low vitamin D and you re on all these vitamin D supplements that seem to barely move the needle, and I think, well, what if we got it the traditional way, which is the sun?
10
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
10
SPEAKER_01
Well, anyway, I found a new one that s pretty good.
10
SPEAKER_00
A sunblock you like?
10
SPEAKER_01
That I m liking.
10
SPEAKER_01
Face.
10
SPEAKER_00
I like goop the most.
10
SPEAKER_00
Super goop.
10
SPEAKER_00
Super goop.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yep.
10
SPEAKER_01
Super goop is great.
10
SPEAKER_00
I love that.
10
SPEAKER_00
It feels very nice going on.
10
SPEAKER_00
It is.
10
SPEAKER_00
When I wear it, I like wearing it actually.
10
SPEAKER_00
It feels good.
10
SPEAKER_00
I have the clear one though.
10
SPEAKER_01
Some people I see put on sunscreen with a brush.
10
SPEAKER_01
Oh.
10
SPEAKER_01
And I want to start trying that.
10
SPEAKER_00
They paint it on.
10
SPEAKER_00
We do that with the boys.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s a thing for kids to make it more.
10
SPEAKER_00
I don t want to over my hands too.
10
SPEAKER_01
But they like it because it feels really nice.
10
SPEAKER_01
So it s like more palatable because kids don t like wearing sunscreen.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you don t want to hear your mom or dad s hands on your face, but a nice paint brush.
10
SPEAKER_00
Beautiful brush.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_01
Well, more makeup brush.
10
SPEAKER_01
You could do a paint brush, but yeah.
10
SPEAKER_00
Oh, okay.
10
SPEAKER_01
Because that s more fluffy and nice on the skin.
10
SPEAKER_01
But I think I want to start trying that because I think I ll like it.
10
SPEAKER_01
So what else about, oh, do you want to tell, do you want to reveal your date?
10
SPEAKER_00
Oh, sure.
10
SPEAKER_00
I doubt he would mind.
10
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
10
SPEAKER_00
But yeah, my date was with Matthew McConaughey, which was, um, it was a first for me to ask someone out on a date.
10
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
10
SPEAKER_00
So just to recap, yeah, we ve interviewed him twice.
10
SPEAKER_00
That went very well, but that s just an interview and over zoom, I think both times, right?
10
SPEAKER_00
And then only the one time that I was around him at this camping trip for whatever, we talked for an hour.
10
SPEAKER_00
But I was in Austin, and I d been wanting really bad to go see Andrew Schultz do stand-up.
10
SPEAKER_00
And also I follow Andrew on Instagram and I was just seeing all of these incredible venues he s selling out.
10
SPEAKER_00
And I was just so happy for him.
10
SPEAKER_00
He like sold out the forum, which is fucking incredible for a standup.
10
SPEAKER_00
So impressive.
10
SPEAKER_00
So I had randomly just sent him an Instagram message like blown away by how well you re doing.
10
SPEAKER_00
And he s like, you got to come to a show.
10
SPEAKER_00
So then I decided to just look on his website and then lo and behold, he happened to be playing Friday night in Austin.
10
SPEAKER_00
Impossible.
10
SPEAKER_00
So I go, Oh my God, I m going to be in Austin.
10
SPEAKER_00
I want to come see you in Austin.
10
SPEAKER_00
He s like, great.
10
SPEAKER_00
How many tickets do you need?
10
SPEAKER_00
And I m like, bro, I think it s just going to be me.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_00
I m fine with, I m 49.
10
SPEAKER_00
Also, there is a tinge of like, am I a, I m a dork.
10
SPEAKER_00
Like, I m telling this guy, Andrew, who I don t really know, who naturally I would want to think I m cool.
10
SPEAKER_00
Like, no, I m gonna be rolling solo to this comedy show.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, me and you talked about this.
10
SPEAKER_01
I think this is so interesting that you have a hangup about going somewhere by yourself.
10
SPEAKER_00
Well, what s interesting is I love going places by myself.
10
SPEAKER_00
So I love going out to eat by myself.
10
SPEAKER_00
I love going to the movies by myself.
10
SPEAKER_00
Something about letting this dude know that I didn t know a single person in Austin that I would be coming by myself felt pathetic.
10
SPEAKER_01
I don t, I just really don t think it is at all.
10
SPEAKER_00
Okay, great.
10
SPEAKER_00
I d like to think it wasn t and he didn t think that, but I felt silly going, I think I m coming by myself.
10
SPEAKER_00
But then I said, actually, if you can give me a plus one, I ll take it.
10
SPEAKER_00
And Kate, cause I do have some friends in Austin.
10
SPEAKER_00
So I go, maybe I ll figure it out.
10
SPEAKER_00
And then I don t know why it just crossed my mind.
10
SPEAKER_00
I m like, well, McConaughey lives in Austin.
10
SPEAKER_00
I ve always wanted to hang out with him just in real life.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_00
I m gonna like, and I don t have his info.
10
SPEAKER_00
So I like ask Emma, she ll ask the publicist if he wants my email so I can invite him to this thing.
10
SPEAKER_00
So it goes through them, comes back, here s his email.
10
SPEAKER_00
I email him, hey, I m gonna go see this comedian Andrew Schultz.
10
SPEAKER_00
He writes back, perfect.
10
SPEAKER_00
Well, let me do it.
10
SPEAKER_00
He s like, perfect.
10
SPEAKER_00
I m going to be landing in Austin Friday with the fam.
10
SPEAKER_00
Let s do it.
10
SPEAKER_00
Green light.
10
SPEAKER_00
He even gave me a green light.
10
SPEAKER_00
So anyways, he says he s in.
10
SPEAKER_00
And then what was really funny is as then that day approaches, it was I had two tickets for us.
10
SPEAKER_00
And then it was like, hey, do you have seats?
10
SPEAKER_00
Like, of course I have seats, I invited you.
10
SPEAKER_00
Can you imagine if I didn t even have seats?
10
SPEAKER_01
Sure, that s embarrassing.
10
SPEAKER_00
But then I was like, do you want to sit in the suite?
10
SPEAKER_00
I forget why he said we could sit in the suite.
10
SPEAKER_00
And I wrote like, hey, whatever you would want to do, I m down.
10
SPEAKER_00
And then he s like, great, I ll pick you up.
10
SPEAKER_00
So then it flipped to he was taking me on a date.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
10
SPEAKER_00
Which of course, because he s so alpha, he s like, listen, I m going to hang with you, but I m taking you on a date.
10
SPEAKER_00
So I ll pick you up at your hotel.
10
SPEAKER_00
We ll sit in a suite and we ll do this right.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_00
So on the way to the, well, I just got to say, it s textbook McConaughey.
10
SPEAKER_00
I come out of the hotel.
10
SPEAKER_00
He s like, I m down here, white Lincoln Navigator.
10
SPEAKER_00
Of course.
10
SPEAKER_01
Of course.
10
SPEAKER_00
Of course.
10
SPEAKER_00
On brand.
10
SPEAKER_00
Mr. Dykes, Mr. Dykes.
10
SPEAKER_00
He s out of the Navigator just hanging.
10
SPEAKER_00
He s talking to valet dudes.
10
SPEAKER_00
He s such a mayor of wherever he s at.
10
SPEAKER_00
And I m like, oh, this is great.
10
SPEAKER_00
On the way to the comedy show, he tells me that he basically built this arena we re going to.
10
SPEAKER_00
He put together UT with some investors.
10
SPEAKER_00
He worked with the architect.
10
SPEAKER_00
He knows this thing, but he hasn t been.
10
SPEAKER_01
Oh, first time.
10
SPEAKER_00
And he s like, he s really excited to go to this building he basically built, but he s never been to.
10
SPEAKER_00
So of course we arrive and it s like the whole staff knows he s like, he s the founder of this thing.
10
SPEAKER_00
And so, yeah, we go to this really fun suite that s got like a bar and food and it s awesome.
10
SPEAKER_00
Show goes on, it s great.
10
SPEAKER_00
He, Andrew is so fucking funny.
10
SPEAKER_01
Great.
10
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God, is he good.
10
SPEAKER_00
Everyone should go see Andrew Schultz.
10
SPEAKER_00
He s so fucking funny.
10
SPEAKER_00
And I bawled.
10
SPEAKER_00
There was a moment, so he shows a video of his little baby he just had.
10
SPEAKER_00
And they went through IVF and the whole thing.
10
SPEAKER_00
So it s the whole journey.
10
SPEAKER_00
And it s this really beautiful video.
10
SPEAKER_00
And now I m full crying.
10
SPEAKER_00
And I m on my first date with McConaughey.
10
SPEAKER_00
And I m just not sure how that s gonna go down.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I m crying.
10
SPEAKER_00
And by the way, I think I was making an effort not to.
10
SPEAKER_00
Couldn t help it.
10
SPEAKER_00
Was just crying.
10
SPEAKER_00
I think he caught a peep of that.
10
SPEAKER_00
I think he noticed I was over there.
10
SPEAKER_01
But he was respectful.
10
SPEAKER_01
He didn t say anything.
10
SPEAKER_00
He didn t stand up and point at me.
10
SPEAKER_00
Fucking wimp.
10
SPEAKER_00
P-word.
10
SPEAKER_00
Crying because he likes babies.
10
SPEAKER_00
Anyways, he loved Schultz.
10
SPEAKER_00
He and I had a real good chuckle at the same line, which is always so fun when you realize you both deal with the same thing.
10
SPEAKER_00
At any rate, then we went backstage, hung with Andrew, a couple of the other comedians that were also great.
10
SPEAKER_00
And then, so it was a good date, but we didn t, you know, we didn t get any like a ton of one-on-one time.
10
SPEAKER_00
And then we re leaving and he goes, should we grab a steak?
10
SPEAKER_00
And I m like, fuck yes, let s grab a steak.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s just like music, music.
10
SPEAKER_00
And it s exactly what I wanted to do with him.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_00
So it s 1025.
10
SPEAKER_00
He asked his driver, Domingo?
10
SPEAKER_00
It s clearly his driver for a long time.
10
SPEAKER_00
Oh, he wasn t driving.
10
SPEAKER_00
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
10
SPEAKER_00
He had a driver.
10
SPEAKER_00
He s like, where can we get a steak?
10
SPEAKER_00
Where s open?
10
SPEAKER_00
And he s like, oh, I think we could make it to Lambert s.
10
SPEAKER_00
Go to Lambert s.
10
SPEAKER_00
It s closing.
10
SPEAKER_00
We walk in.
10
SPEAKER_00
He is Mickey Mouse in Austin.
10
SPEAKER_00
He s like being with Mickey Mouse in Disneyland in Austin.
10
SPEAKER_00
He s the god of Austin.
10
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
10
SPEAKER_00
Staff is immediately blown away, McConaughey s there.
10
SPEAKER_00
That s huge, yeah.
10
SPEAKER_01
So he d never been there before.
10
SPEAKER_01
It wasn t like his spot.
10
SPEAKER_00
It wasn t his spot.
10
SPEAKER_00
I don t know if he had ever been there or not.
10
SPEAKER_00
But it went from, God, I hope they let us in, because they re closing, till everyone was very excited he was there.
10
SPEAKER_00
So great.
10
SPEAKER_00
It s the vibe we want.
10
SPEAKER_00
He orders for us.
10
SPEAKER_00
Again, I m totally on a date.
10
SPEAKER_01
But that, okay, you re on like a date from the 50s though.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
10
SPEAKER_01
It s like, if someone ordered for me, I d be like, no, I didn t make an order.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yes, and let me tell you, it felt great.
10
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
10
SPEAKER_00
He was, because when we walked in, he s like, we re going to get some steak.
10
SPEAKER_00
You like, you like ribeye?
10
SPEAKER_00
And I m like, oh, I fucking ribeye is my steak.
10
SPEAKER_00
He s like, you like skirt steak?
10
SPEAKER_00
I m like, yeah.
10
SPEAKER_00
He s like.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I like anything you like.
10
SPEAKER_00
And so, but it was all the stuff I like.
10
SPEAKER_00
He s like, you want salad?
10
SPEAKER_00
And so he orders us a wedge to split.
10
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
10
SPEAKER_00
and a big side of coleslaw which is my favorite got in his spit no no because it was split before it arrived okay but he also ordered a ton of coleslaw
11
SPEAKER_01
which is my favorite thing to pair with meat.
11
SPEAKER_01
You ve seen me do this a million times.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yes, you like it.
11
SPEAKER_01
So at any rate, these steaks were so fucking good.
11
SPEAKER_01
The wedge was so good.
11
SPEAKER_01
And then we really had a 10 out of 10 date.
11
SPEAKER_00
That s great.
11
SPEAKER_01
We were screaming, laughing.
11
SPEAKER_01
I was calling him out for fun things that I thought we had in common, and it was really, it was an enchanted night.
11
SPEAKER_00
And he dropped you off.
11
SPEAKER_00
Of course he dropped me off.
11
SPEAKER_01
And you guys kissed in the car.
11
SPEAKER_01
We didn t kiss, but I woulda.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I think we wrapped things up around midnight or something.
11
SPEAKER_00
Nice.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it was really fun.
11
SPEAKER_01
I hope to God we get to do it again.
11
SPEAKER_00
I m sure you will.
11
SPEAKER_00
Did he text you the next day and say like, hey, that was fun?
11
SPEAKER_01
I text him.
11
SPEAKER_01
I was thirsty.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s a little thirsty.
11
SPEAKER_00
What d you say?
11
SPEAKER_01
That s where I am confident.
11
SPEAKER_01
I know the right thing to do is to wait for him to text me.
11
SPEAKER_00
I m just joking.
11
SPEAKER_01
I ve been on a date, but no, I know there s rules, but that s where I am confident.
11
SPEAKER_01
I go, Oh yeah, I know the rules, but I know this person likes me.
11
SPEAKER_01
I m going to reach out.
11
SPEAKER_01
I also think like, yes, as a man, you re trying to navigate, like there s all these weird.
11
SPEAKER_01
I m just being honest about what the fear, both of us growing up in the 70s, I think there s all these things that you were afraid would make you gay.
11
SPEAKER_01
Here s where I am very comfortable.
11
SPEAKER_01
I will be the first man to act in a way that potentially scares other men.
11
SPEAKER_00
Okay, yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
Right?
11
SPEAKER_01
I ll tell them I love them.
11
SPEAKER_01
I ll tell them about my fears and my feelings.
11
SPEAKER_00
They like their body.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I ll tell them how good looking they are.
11
SPEAKER_01
I m aware of those things, and I push past all those things.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
So again, I m like, yeah, I m just going to tell him.
11
SPEAKER_01
I m like, what a fucking great night.
11
SPEAKER_01
That steak was a party.
11
SPEAKER_01
Had so much fun.
11
SPEAKER_01
Hope we get to do it again.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
And he wrote back, like, comedy, great, blah, blah, blah, great steak, 100%, perfect night, right?
11
SPEAKER_00
Green lights.
11
SPEAKER_01
Green lights.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
It s just funny because again, male friendship versus female friendship is so fascinating because we have none of this.
11
SPEAKER_01
There is absolutely no fear of being too overly intimate.
11
SPEAKER_01
I hate it.
11
SPEAKER_01
I m telling you, I hate it.
11
SPEAKER_00
I know, I know.
11
SPEAKER_00
But I just think it s funny because you keep referring to this as a date, which is funny.
11
SPEAKER_00
And it s, I know you re saying that to be funny.
11
SPEAKER_00
Anytime I m hanging out with a girlfriend or even meeting a new girlfriend, like Kate, like hanging out with Kate, I would never refer to it as a date or even make the, it wouldn t even be a funny joke.
11
SPEAKER_00
Right.
11
SPEAKER_00
Because like girls just hang out.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
All the time.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
So it s just interesting.
11
SPEAKER_01
It is, it is.
11
SPEAKER_01
We re trapped.
11
SPEAKER_00
But it s good.
11
SPEAKER_00
You re making moves.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
Well, that s fun.
11
SPEAKER_00
It was really.
11
SPEAKER_00
I m glad you had that experience.
11
SPEAKER_01
But I will say, it was a very interesting trip in total.
11
SPEAKER_00
Mm, let s hear.
11
SPEAKER_00
You were in Austin for a full week.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I was in Austin for a full week, which was scheduled to be Kristen flying in, and then her schedule changed, and then she had to cancel.
11
SPEAKER_01
So it was this very, very rare occurrence where I had basically a week to myself.
11
SPEAKER_01
I had, like, whatever, the race to go to, I had a track day to go to, I had a podcast to record, and then I wanted to do this comedy show.
11
SPEAKER_01
But other than that, it was just me hanging, going to Barton Springs.
11
SPEAKER_01
And I don t think I m fully synthesized what my conclusions about all of it were, but there were a lot of really interesting realities that simmered up.
11
SPEAKER_01
Here s what I kept getting confronted with is like, I look forward to being by myself so much, right?
11
SPEAKER_01
I don t have to deal with anybody s anything.
11
SPEAKER_01
I don t have to worry about anybody, whatever.
11
SPEAKER_01
My schedule, I get to do whatever I m in the mood to do.
11
SPEAKER_01
That sounds appealing.
11
SPEAKER_01
I get to eat and blah, blah, blah.
11
SPEAKER_01
All of it sounds so fun and in my mind it s so fun.
11
SPEAKER_01
But then when I was doing it, I was like, eh, this isn t that fun.
11
SPEAKER_01
It s not very fun.
11
SPEAKER_01
It wasn t very fun.
11
SPEAKER_01
Much of it.
11
SPEAKER_01
The motorcycle stuff was, the date with McConaughey was, in the podcast, but then the other five days, not fun.
11
SPEAKER_00
Huh.
11
SPEAKER_01
Not un-fun.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
But I just was like, hmm.
11
SPEAKER_01
All these fantasies I have, like, oh, I like not working.
11
SPEAKER_01
I don t like not working.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
I need a break from my family.
11
SPEAKER_01
I don t really want a break from my family.
11
SPEAKER_01
It made me like think how much I, well, first is how much I enjoy my girls so much.
11
SPEAKER_01
Like, oh my God, so much.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
To the point where I was like, yeah, I don t think I ever want to break ever again.
11
SPEAKER_01
It was just very illuminating about how much actual joy and fulfillment I get from that.
11
SPEAKER_01
Almost I needed the absence of it to really kind of see how much I really need those little shits.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that makes sense.
11
SPEAKER_00
That makes sense.
11
SPEAKER_00
But you don t feel that as much when you re like, when you were on your trip with Aaron skiing, or did you, or did you feel that like in India?
11
SPEAKER_01
No, you re right.
11
SPEAKER_01
If I m like sharing it with another friend, then yeah, that s definitely, it s definitely different.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, being by yourself is a very specific feeling.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and it s funny, because I have this kind of romantic memory of having lived by myself for different periods of my life.
11
SPEAKER_01
And I did in those times get into fun routines I had.
11
SPEAKER_01
And I remember being very joyous just living in the old house by myself.
11
SPEAKER_01
And I found a way to love that.
11
SPEAKER_01
And so I think I have kind of some exaggerated nostalgia for that.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
that I don t think I really have anymore.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s great.
11
SPEAKER_01
And then I was just really also mulling over the future and work and identity.
11
SPEAKER_01
It was a lot of time for me to just be hanging and thinking.
11
SPEAKER_01
I think in summation, like a lot of the trip I felt scared.
11
SPEAKER_01
I felt like, I guess it was Jonah Nolan that was on that was talking about how fragile our sense of self is.
11
SPEAKER_01
I was really feeling that fragility.
11
SPEAKER_01
I was like, all these things that I kind of comfort myself with, which is like, I do this for a job.
11
SPEAKER_01
I make this amount of money.
11
SPEAKER_01
I m here on these days.
11
SPEAKER_01
I m blah, blah, blah.
11
SPEAKER_01
In the absence of all that.
11
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, oh, what if I m a guy who just goes to Barton Springs?
11
SPEAKER_01
Could I even live with that version of myself?
11
SPEAKER_01
And when are we gonna figure out how to be fine if that s all I am?
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
Well, everyone s gonna have to start doing this because eventually, I mean, AI is gonna make all of us think about this.
11
SPEAKER_00
There won t be jobs.
11
SPEAKER_00
There will be, what is your life without these identity markers?
11
SPEAKER_00
You re just a person.
11
SPEAKER_01
I know.
11
SPEAKER_01
I wish I felt better about being just the person I am.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
And I guess it made me aspire to.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
I kind of like, yeah, there were a couple of things I thought I would get more committed to now that I m home.
11
SPEAKER_01
I think more of the Buddhism exploration.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
Something, there was something pivotal.
11
SPEAKER_00
That s great.
11
SPEAKER_01
I also guess, I m also 49.
11
SPEAKER_01
Halfway to 50 and always these kind of decade markers end up being, you start thinking about, yeah, where you wanna go and what you wanna do.
11
SPEAKER_01
But your trip was super social, so you probably didn t go through any of that crazy thoughts.
11
SPEAKER_00
I do so many trips by myself, so much.
11
SPEAKER_01
But yours sounded just like a big party.
11
SPEAKER_00
This one was much more social than they normally are, but it wasn t better to me because it was.
11
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
11
SPEAKER_00
I guess you just adapt to your surroundings and your circumstances.
11
SPEAKER_00
There are moments of longing and loneliness.
11
SPEAKER_00
but there are also lots of moments.
11
SPEAKER_00
I m glad I m by myself.
11
SPEAKER_00
I m glad I m making my own decisions.
11
SPEAKER_00
I m glad I m whatever.
11
SPEAKER_00
So it just goes both ways, I guess.
11
SPEAKER_00
Like whatever you re in, you want pieces of the other thing.
11
SPEAKER_00
But I guess that s sort of what you re saying is you, you re realizing you don t need those pieces.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
I think my overall observation at the end of the week was none of my fantasies are as good as my real life.
11
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that s literally the dream.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
And I, I need to learn how to focus on that.
11
SPEAKER_01
That s what I realized.
11
SPEAKER_01
Like I need to, yeah, I just need to be present in this current life I have on any given moment because it s fantastic and there s really nothing better and there s no elation awaiting for me anywhere and everything s groovy and
11
SPEAKER_01
Like I don t know, maybe it s time to dial back the romantic meter a bit.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
The like wanderlusty romantic meter.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
Of like every adventure I need to be on and so, but I don t know, I ll have another trip, it ll be different and then I ll feel differently after that one.
11
SPEAKER_00
But that s a good takeaway I think, or an interesting one.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
I think that s good.
11
SPEAKER_00
You ll have to keep us updated on your.
11
SPEAKER_00
evolving thoughts on it.
11
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
11
SPEAKER_00
Um, okay.
11
SPEAKER_00
This is for Phil Heath.
11
SPEAKER_00
There s not very many facts.
11
SPEAKER_00
Sean Connery, what did he win?
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
He competed in Mr. Universe.
11
SPEAKER_00
Mr. Universe.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
but he didn t win.
12
SPEAKER_01
He got third in the junior division in 1953.
12
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
12
SPEAKER_00
Third in the junior division.
12
SPEAKER_00
So I may be a heightened that a little bit.
12
SPEAKER_00
I think I claimed he won.
12
SPEAKER_01
Oh wow.
12
SPEAKER_01
Um, and then Van Damme, uh, yeah, Mr. Belgium, he also competed, but then he was called that.
12
SPEAKER_00
Oh, Mr. Belgium.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
Again, it sounds so much like Mr. Belvedere.
12
SPEAKER_01
It does.
12
SPEAKER_00
Mr. Belgium doesn t sound that sexy, does it?
12
SPEAKER_00
No disrespect, but for some reason, even like Mr. Spain sounds pretty good, but Mr. Belgium.
12
SPEAKER_01
Oh really?
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
Which do you think sounds coolest and what s just worse?
12
SPEAKER_01
I kind of like Belgium for a sounding country.
12
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
12
SPEAKER_00
Mr. Belgium.
12
SPEAKER_01
It sounds like classy.
12
SPEAKER_01
It sounds a little classy.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
Oh, by the way, if we talked about the jinx, there s a part two.
12
SPEAKER_01
We haven t talked about it, but I saw that.
12
SPEAKER_00
Did you start it?
12
SPEAKER_01
It s on already?
12
SPEAKER_00
The first episode came out yesterday.
12
SPEAKER_00
I haven t started it, but I m so excited.
12
SPEAKER_01
I am too, I m scared.
12
SPEAKER_00
I hope it captures some of the same magic as the first one.
12
SPEAKER_00
I do.
12
SPEAKER_01
I know.
12
SPEAKER_01
There s a little bit of me, I mean, I think it s gonna be great, I m so, so excited, but I m also like, it was so perfect.
12
SPEAKER_00
You re scared to go back.
12
SPEAKER_01
And do you need, like,
12
SPEAKER_01
Again, some of what you re talking about a little bit, can t that just be perfect?
12
SPEAKER_00
Right.
12
SPEAKER_00
Why?
12
SPEAKER_00
Revisit.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but I guess I know why, because of the trial, and we want to know more.
12
SPEAKER_01
So it ll be, yeah, I m gonna start it, I forgot.
12
SPEAKER_00
But it would be easy to think that the first jinx was really made by the fact that he was saying, he was still on mic saying all the burping.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
It was so tremendous before that point.
12
SPEAKER_01
Of course, it s a very well done doc.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, because the next one can t have that great moment that we all loved, but it was really stellar until then anyways.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, he s great.
12
SPEAKER_01
I mean, Andrew Jarecki is amazing and makes great stuff, so it s gonna be good.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I might re-watch the first one.
12
SPEAKER_01
We talked about watching Tyson fight, and it was weird, ding, ding, ding, because when I was in, I went to, I also saw my parents on this trip, and my brother, and my brother s friend was there for a lunch, and he, him and my dad got in this really long conversation about boxing, which was fun.
12
SPEAKER_00
And your dad likes boxing?
12
SPEAKER_01
Yes, I mean he, I don t know if he likes it, he just like knows a little stuff.
12
SPEAKER_00
Do you feel like raw ball boys are supposed to know just a little bit about boxing?
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I guess so.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think we re supposed to know.
12
SPEAKER_00
I know kind of a lot about boxing, but it makes sense, because I m.
12
SPEAKER_00
Transitioning into UFC a little bit now.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think now it s all about UFC, which I m largely in the dark about.
12
SPEAKER_01
Well, there was a big fight, a big boxing match on Saturday.
12
SPEAKER_00
With Tyson and?
12
SPEAKER_00
No, not with Tyson.
12
SPEAKER_00
Uh-oh.
12
SPEAKER_01
But there was a big one.
12
SPEAKER_00
Oh, okay, because Tyson s gonna fight.
12
SPEAKER_01
I know, one of the Pauls.
12
SPEAKER_00
Jake Paul.
12
SPEAKER_00
Jake Paul.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
But it s an exhibition, so it s not a real fight.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I m just like, what s going on?
12
SPEAKER_00
I wish it were a real fight.
12
SPEAKER_00
It d be really fun.
12
SPEAKER_01
I thought it was.
12
SPEAKER_00
It s not.
12
SPEAKER_00
It s an exhibition.
12
SPEAKER_00
Oh.
12
SPEAKER_01
Well, I want to have him on.
12
SPEAKER_00
Me too.
12
SPEAKER_01
Maybe he ll come on before the fight or after.
12
SPEAKER_00
Or during.
12
SPEAKER_00
I m sure he could do it during.
12
SPEAKER_00
That d be great.
12
SPEAKER_00
He d be fine to handle Jake Paul.
12
SPEAKER_00
He can do it all.
12
SPEAKER_01
We talk a little bit about how young people aren t getting married, you know, as we already know this, but it s just true.
12
SPEAKER_01
It s declining like crazy.
12
SPEAKER_00
You think that s good or bad?
12
SPEAKER_01
I mean, for population, it s bad.
12
SPEAKER_01
But I don t know.
12
SPEAKER_00
I mean, we ve already theorized on this many times.
12
SPEAKER_00
But who was I just talking to?
12
SPEAKER_00
Oh, Ange, while we were at Barton Springs.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, just the future leading towards more and more people live by themselves, a solitary life.
12
SPEAKER_00
Something fundamentally about us being such social animals feels like maybe that s not the direction.
12
SPEAKER_01
I don t feel that I live a solitary life.
12
SPEAKER_00
Right.
12
SPEAKER_01
I have a very social life, but it s not.
12
SPEAKER_01
Cohabitating.
12
SPEAKER_01
Whether there s a partner there or not.
12
SPEAKER_01
I don t think you have to, I mean, there s a missing out on a level of intimacy.
12
SPEAKER_01
So that s sad, I guess, but it s not like bad for the world.
12
SPEAKER_00
I don t even mean, you know, what s funny is I m not even thinking about actually, if I m being honest, about the solitariness of it.
12
SPEAKER_00
I just,
12
SPEAKER_00
I think people are probably at their best if they re forced to compromise a lot.
12
SPEAKER_01
You are.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
True.
12
SPEAKER_01
I mean, and in some ways everyone is, but I think there are a lot of places in life to have that work and there s a bunch.
12
SPEAKER_01
And I think some people need to be pushed there a little more than others.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I need a lot of that, I guess.
12
SPEAKER_01
But also, yeah, yeah, it is important.
12
SPEAKER_01
It s an important skill, but it s an important skill, I think, for being connected and being social.
12
SPEAKER_01
So it s all sort of tying back into the same thing.
12
SPEAKER_00
I m very locked in my own experience, which is like, when I get everything I want, I m not happy.
12
SPEAKER_01
For sure.
12
SPEAKER_00
And when I am regularly inconvenienced by other people, I m a lot happier.
12
SPEAKER_00
So that s the perspective I m trapped in.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I think that s fair.
12
SPEAKER_00
And I just wonder how common that is.
12
SPEAKER_01
I mean, we know from a million people on the show how important social connection is in life.
12
SPEAKER_01
And if you are someone who s just unwilling to compromise in general, you probably won t have any at all, whether they re a romantic partner or a friend.
12
SPEAKER_01
So yeah, it is important.
12
SPEAKER_01
That s it.
12
SPEAKER_00
That s it.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, bodybuilding.
12
SPEAKER_01
Bodybuilding.
12
SPEAKER_01
You know, when we were recording this halfway through, I thought, what is bodybuilding?
12
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
12
SPEAKER_01
And I don t know that I know.
12
SPEAKER_00
Well, it s just putting as much muscle mass on a human as you can.
12
SPEAKER_01
Right, but then the competitions are just like looking at their bodies, right?
12
SPEAKER_00
Yes, and if you were to watch this doc, again, because I watch it with Lincoln and then maybe halfway through, I think Kristen joined, and so Lincoln didn t want to watch it, the bodybuilding, but of course, it s a very well-made doc and you get into the competition, but you would be able to pick who the winner was.
12
SPEAKER_00
That s probably what you re having a hard time imagining, right?
12
SPEAKER_00
Like how can you tell what s, they re just all enormous.
12
SPEAKER_00
But you can see that like, oh, they re enormous, but it is like the muscle chart in the doctor s office.
12
SPEAKER_00
Like I can see every single muscle.
12
SPEAKER_00
And then this other person, yeah, they re bigger, but I can t really see all this stuff.
12
SPEAKER_00
Or, oh, their shoulders look way wider than their butt and their legs.
12
SPEAKER_00
Like you do start seeing like this proportional thing that that becomes kind of obvious.
12
SPEAKER_00
And then like how cut and defined they are becomes really obvious.
12
SPEAKER_00
And weirdly, I would say all the ones that he won, he was the clear winner.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s so crazy.
12
SPEAKER_00
It is.
12
SPEAKER_01
But also I guess I thought maybe bodybuilding had something to do with like during the competition you lifted stuff.
12
SPEAKER_00
Oh.
12
SPEAKER_01
But it s not, it s just a full physical appearance.
12
SPEAKER_00
All aesthetic.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
100% aesthetic.
12
SPEAKER_01
It s pretty fascinating.
12
SPEAKER_00
Not that anyone will care, but if there s any boys in the audience that are like, they re like me.
12
SPEAKER_00
Like you watch them on TV, they look crazy, but they also are next to each other.
12
SPEAKER_00
So they look like there s, I don t know, a lot of them.
12
SPEAKER_01
It s in contact.
12
SPEAKER_00
I was saying that what s crazy is in the doc, the rock looks at like normal size, which is really interesting.
12
SPEAKER_00
But for my friends who lift weights and are into this stuff, when they ve said like, what was it like being around Phil?
12
SPEAKER_00
It s the tricep.
12
SPEAKER_00
This is what you just do not see on a real human being.
12
SPEAKER_00
I don t know if you notice it, but when he was like talking, this chunk of muscle under his arm was the size of my thigh.
12
SPEAKER_00
You just don t even see someone s tricep.
12
SPEAKER_00
Like that was one of there s like, okay, well that is something that is like,
12
SPEAKER_00
18 standard deviations above a normal.
12
SPEAKER_00
That s where it got obvious.
12
SPEAKER_00
Like, what s the difference between them and just a very built big guy you might see at a, at the beach.
12
SPEAKER_00
And it s that it s like, you don t ever see someone with a tricep that big size of a thigh.
12
SPEAKER_01
Well, no, you don t.
12
SPEAKER_00
You really don t.
12
SPEAKER_01
You normally don t.
12
SPEAKER_00
Of all the sports, man, it s all day.
12
SPEAKER_01
It s a full dedication, yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I mean, no other sport has the eating component in the way that this one does.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, probably not.
12
SPEAKER_00
Or it s like they said, they re eating seven hours a day.
12
SPEAKER_00
And it has to be such an enormous amount of protein.
12
SPEAKER_00
No one can stomach it.
12
SPEAKER_00
It s just impossible.
12
SPEAKER_00
So they re doing the activity three hours a day, but then they re also eating seven hours a day.
12
SPEAKER_00
I just don t know what other endeavor is that all consuming.
12
SPEAKER_00
It s wild.
12
SPEAKER_00
You want a knee jerk, say it s insane, right?
12
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I have my own opinions on.
12
SPEAKER_00
Because when you watch an Olympic skier, you re like, well, I guess that has the purpose of going down this hill very quickly or because there s some ostensible purpose to it, doing a 1480 out of a half pipe 25, but all of it s completely abstract and useless.
12
SPEAKER_00
Like no one needs to do three flips off the top of a half pipe lip.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yep.
12
SPEAKER_00
But for some reason, those pursuits seem completely.
13
SPEAKER_00
normal, right?
13
SPEAKER_00
Or more normal.
13
SPEAKER_01
They feel.
13
SPEAKER_00
Like I think these people still deal with the fact that the average person thinks they re freaks.
13
SPEAKER_01
Sure.
13
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
13
SPEAKER_00
When it is identical to all these other things, it s just like the outcomes difference.
13
SPEAKER_00
Like you re kind of trying to value outcome, but all the outcomes are pretty useless in real life.
13
SPEAKER_01
I guess so.
13
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
13
SPEAKER_01
One feels crazier.
13
SPEAKER_01
Not crazy.
13
SPEAKER_01
It feels, um.
13
SPEAKER_00
I have a hunch of what could be triggering for you.
13
SPEAKER_00
It seems to epitomize masculinity.
13
SPEAKER_00
And just masculinity in general is kind of a scary- Actually, no, I actually find it- Not.
13
SPEAKER_01
Not masculine at all.
13
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
13
SPEAKER_01
The obsession with food and body and looking like the very specific, it actually to me, I don t feel that.
13
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
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SPEAKER_01
But I think devoting so much to just having people look at you, I guess because that s what I was like, I thought like you were doing something.
13
SPEAKER_01
feels a little shallow, I guess.
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SPEAKER_00
Well, the competition is like endless flexing in all these poses.
13
SPEAKER_00
Right, right.
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SPEAKER_00
Like, you know, it is hours of demonstration.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Like, you would be a ballet dancer.
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SPEAKER_00
Like, here s the routine.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Watch it with your eyes.
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SPEAKER_00
Mm-hmm.
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SPEAKER_00
Hope you enjoy.
13
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
It s all made up.
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SPEAKER_01
All this value s made up, yeah.
13
SPEAKER_01
But it was, it s interesting.
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SPEAKER_01
It s definitely a world I don t know a lot about or know anything about.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
Obviously I didn t even know what it was.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Really?
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SPEAKER_00
I think it s still fringe.
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SPEAKER_00
And I think without Schwarzenegger it would even be back like still in the forties where people really were like, Oh, they re free.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
Probably.
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SPEAKER_00
He helped I think normalize it.
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SPEAKER_00
It is very interesting of all the things that the aliens are watching the monkeys do.
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SPEAKER_00
They re like, wow, these monkeys are trying to get three times the size of the other monkeys.
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SPEAKER_01
But then to just go like stand on a platform.
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SPEAKER_00
For the other monkeys to look at and go like, oh my God.
13
SPEAKER_01
Right, pretty nuts.
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SPEAKER_00
Alrighty.
13
SPEAKER_00
All right, love you.
13
SPEAKER_00
Love you.