0
SPEAKER_01
Oh, my God.
0
SPEAKER_01
Are you?
0
SPEAKER_00
Are you in the closet?
0
SPEAKER_00
I am.
0
SPEAKER_00
The listeners who listen to the other shows are very familiar that when I m home, I am in the basement because sound is much better down here.
0
SPEAKER_00
It s not how I envisioned it.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s a mess.
0
SPEAKER_00
This is just one of the rooms, but it s like a storage room.
0
SPEAKER_00
So it has all these like extra cooking things.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
I think if your basement doesn t look like that, I don t trust you.
0
SPEAKER_00
This is the storage closet and it definitely reads as such.
0
SPEAKER_00
In the closet.
0
SPEAKER_00
I love it.
0
SPEAKER_00
How are you?
0
SPEAKER_00
I m good.
0
SPEAKER_00
Trip is good.
0
SPEAKER_00
Was in New York and now I m here at home.
0
SPEAKER_00
You know how it is.
0
SPEAKER_00
I mean,
0
SPEAKER_01
I know exactly.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s a rollercoaster.
0
SPEAKER_01
Well, it s not even a rollercoaster because the rollercoaster would involve that there s not just an extreme high and an extreme low.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I feel like that s what being home is.
0
SPEAKER_01
This is the most wonderful thing ever.
0
SPEAKER_01
I love my family.
0
SPEAKER_01
I can t believe I don t get to see them more often.
0
SPEAKER_01
And then two and a half minutes later,
0
SPEAKER_00
run out.
0
SPEAKER_00
It is so funny.
0
SPEAKER_00
Today, I feel fine.
0
SPEAKER_00
But the day I came into Atlanta and then yesterday, I ve been so tired for some reason and just exhausted and feeling so depleted.
0
SPEAKER_00
I feel fine today or more, more normal.
0
SPEAKER_00
But it was funny because, you know, a few minutes in, my mom s like, you look beat.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, why are you saying that?
0
SPEAKER_00
Even though, of course, that s how I felt.
0
SPEAKER_00
I was.
0
SPEAKER_00
But why d you have to say it?
0
SPEAKER_00
And we were at my grandparents yesterday and my grandmother was like, Monica, you look different.
0
SPEAKER_00
First of all, she said I look taller, which that was really exciting.
0
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh, my God.
0
SPEAKER_00
Cool.
0
SPEAKER_00
Maybe I m getting taller.
0
SPEAKER_00
I should measure myself.
0
SPEAKER_01
The comments from family members, just the gamut.
0
SPEAKER_01
But I ve never heard taller.
0
SPEAKER_00
Me either.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I said, well, maybe it s just my shoes.
0
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I wasn t really wearing heels or anything, but maybe I don t know.
0
SPEAKER_00
And then and then she said that she thought maybe I looked thinner.
0
SPEAKER_00
And then my mom was like, well, she s she s tired.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, oh, my God, stop.
0
SPEAKER_01
Everyone stop right now.
0
SPEAKER_01
I was going to laugh and say, well, you look taller.
0
SPEAKER_01
Is it, is, you know, it s, it s a remix.
0
SPEAKER_01
It eventually gets to weight.
0
SPEAKER_01
You re like a turkey and they re like trying to wait.
0
SPEAKER_01
You re like, she s lost some weight or she s putting on some weight.
0
SPEAKER_01
For me, my feeling is just an assessment of how I am.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like if I showed up 40 pounds heavier, they d be like, she s doing great.
0
SPEAKER_01
And immediately assume that that s a good thing.
0
SPEAKER_01
And then obviously the reverse.
0
SPEAKER_01
I think it s like a mom thing of like, they don t know what s going on in your life, really, right?
0
SPEAKER_00
I know, I know.
0
SPEAKER_01
But then they suddenly have like a marker and they re trying to connect with you around that.
0
SPEAKER_01
But it s, yeah, it can be very like judgy or again, just like you re getting comments.
0
SPEAKER_00
It s just so different than how I live my life normally.
0
SPEAKER_00
And so I forget that it s such an adjustment when I m here.
0
SPEAKER_00
And it feels like last time I was here,
0
SPEAKER_00
was a really, really good trip.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I didn t have much of this.
0
SPEAKER_00
It must have been me.
0
SPEAKER_00
I must have been in a different place or something.
0
SPEAKER_00
There s no way they were different.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s true.
0
SPEAKER_00
But still, I was just like, oh, my God, how am I going to make it through this?
0
SPEAKER_00
Because then, of course, then, like, an hour later, this huge, like, debate at the dinner table, and not about current events, luckily, but about some other family stuff.
0
SPEAKER_00
And it was just getting so, like, angry and heated, but not, like, in a way that was gonna...
0
SPEAKER_00
last more than four minutes, but still, I just felt like I can t behave like this in real life.
0
SPEAKER_00
And so this makes me feel so out of sorts to be back in it.
0
SPEAKER_01
Right.
0
SPEAKER_01
I was on a family FaceTime last night, and it did get into an argument.
0
SPEAKER_01
Current events.
0
SPEAKER_01
About current events.
0
SPEAKER_01
And when I was 11, I was hearing my parents fight so much.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, they re getting a divorce.
0
SPEAKER_01
And then I went downstairs and I was like, I know what s going on.
0
SPEAKER_01
I understand.
0
SPEAKER_01
I m 11.
0
SPEAKER_01
And they were like, no, no, no, we re not fighting.
0
SPEAKER_01
We re fighting about something in the news.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, what is it?
0
SPEAKER_01
And it was Israel, Palestine.
0
SPEAKER_01
No, it was.
0
SPEAKER_01
It was not a fun phone call.
0
SPEAKER_01
It was them like grabbing the phone away from each other.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, Lord.
0
SPEAKER_01
But yes, I think families just let it all hang out.
0
SPEAKER_00
in such a crazy way that you can t do.
0
SPEAKER_00
It feels unacceptable.
0
SPEAKER_00
I mean, there s so many things that are happening that I just am like, guys, don t you see this as unacceptable behavior?
0
SPEAKER_00
Like no one can get away with this in real life.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I think maybe we ve talked about this a bit.
0
SPEAKER_00
Having grown up in that,
0
SPEAKER_00
I do have a lot of fear that if I end up in a marriage that I ll do that or something, because I really don t like it.
0
SPEAKER_00
I don t like essentially taking everyone for granted.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s what it is.
0
SPEAKER_00
It s like we ll just say whatever the fuck we want, however the fuck we want to.
0
SPEAKER_00
And a little bit is I do think some of it is cultural.
0
SPEAKER_00
I do try to excuse a piece of it based on that.
0
SPEAKER_00
But it s out of this level of safety that s like so ingrained.
0
SPEAKER_00
Right.
0
SPEAKER_00
It s like the way, I guess, like a kid often talks to their parents.
0
SPEAKER_00
But I don t want that in a relationship.
0
SPEAKER_00
And since that s been modeled, I have fear around that.
0
SPEAKER_01
But you also talk to your parents like that, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
We roll our eyes.
0
SPEAKER_01
I think we both are lucky to have really
0
SPEAKER_01
healthy relationships with our family overall, even though there are things that happen and it s not perfect.
0
SPEAKER_01
But I ll get mad at them for doing stuff like that to me.
0
SPEAKER_01
But then I also realized I still sometimes interact with them like I m still a teenager.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, for sure.
0
SPEAKER_01
I revert there pretty easily, especially when they become this way.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s like we all revert to 1994 and we re all playing our little roles.
0
SPEAKER_00
I mean more I m worried about when I get married.
0
SPEAKER_00
I m not worried about this.
0
SPEAKER_00
Like this is established, right?
0
SPEAKER_00
This is the way it is.
0
SPEAKER_00
I do my best and sometimes I do better than others.
0
SPEAKER_00
I think for them too, truly.
0
SPEAKER_00
But it s the way I grew up and the way that s been modeled them, their relationship.
0
SPEAKER_00
I worry that if I get married, I ll do that.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I really, really, really don t want to because I think it s really not, it s just not how I want to be in a partnership.
0
SPEAKER_00
at all.
0
SPEAKER_00
And so that scares me a little.
0
SPEAKER_01
I understand that.
0
SPEAKER_01
And we learned from our parents, there are things that we want to keep and then there are things that we would want to change.
0
SPEAKER_01
So did they with their own parents, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
You kind of get a fresh new start when you start your own family.
0
SPEAKER_01
But people just repeat.
0
SPEAKER_01
I see it.
0
SPEAKER_01
And also, once you ve been with someone for that long,
0
SPEAKER_01
My parents have been together for over 35 years.
0
SPEAKER_01
There s no frame of reference for me with a relationship.
0
SPEAKER_01
Not that I haven t been in a relationship for several years, but still, that s nothing compared to 35.
0
SPEAKER_01
Can we expect anything else from them?
0
SPEAKER_01
They re fully themselves and it s nuts a little bit to see.
0
SPEAKER_01
There s something beautiful about it too, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
Imagine being with someone where you literally don t hold back anything and they know everything about you.
0
SPEAKER_01
Because even if you ve tried to keep things secret,
0
SPEAKER_00
It s pretty hard.
0
SPEAKER_00
But it s not even secret.
0
SPEAKER_00
I think it s a secret.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s the wrong word.
0
SPEAKER_00
You shouldn t be able to just act on your worst self all the time.
0
SPEAKER_00
I don t think that s good.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I do think with some of these types of relationships that are so long, they do that.
0
SPEAKER_00
I just, I just really don t like it at all.
0
SPEAKER_01
Well, hopefully you find someone who can see your worst self because that s the thing.
0
SPEAKER_01
Alain de Botton wrote this big article in 2016.
0
SPEAKER_01
It was like the most viral article that year, right, of why you ll marry the wrong person.
0
SPEAKER_01
And it s this whole idea that we go on dates
0
SPEAKER_01
Trying to find positive things that we have in common, like, oh, you also love to go to the museum and you also love the environment or whatever.
0
SPEAKER_01
And not that those things don t matter, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
If you have nothing in common, it might be a hard relationship, but that he said you should go on a first date and figure out what makes you nuts.
0
SPEAKER_01
and then figure out if you can tolerate it in the other person.
0
SPEAKER_01
And in order to be able to tell someone what makes you nuts, you need to know what makes you nuts.
0
SPEAKER_01
And when I meet someone who doesn t know what their thing is, that s where I get worried because I m like, I m going to learn it and then I ll have to show it to you and then you ll be mad at me.
0
SPEAKER_01
And maybe it s an unrealistic expectation of love, but someone seeing, yeah, hearing your worst joke and then laughing anyways, right, or loving you anyways is kind of it.
0
SPEAKER_01
But you can t, yeah, you can t
0
SPEAKER_01
take them for granted and expose them to all of your toxic behaviors.
0
SPEAKER_00
But the idea that they will never see them.
0
SPEAKER_00
A hundred percent.
0
SPEAKER_00
They re going to see them.
0
SPEAKER_00
But I think there can be a sense of, well, there s no reason for me to work on myself.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think you should be constantly working on your issues and the problems that you have and your behaviors that are toxic or bad or harmful.
1
SPEAKER_01
And when you have that level of safety, I think it can be easy to not and no one s asking you to, or if they are, they re screaming it.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s always enlightening when you re around your family.
1
SPEAKER_01
Family of origin.
1
SPEAKER_00
Is it been nice to be in your childhood room?
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, I saw this tweet.
1
SPEAKER_00
It was like, when you do therapy from your bedroom, it s like live from the crime scene.
1
SPEAKER_00
A hundred percent.
1
SPEAKER_00
I love that.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, wait.
1
SPEAKER_01
Speaking of that, hold on.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think I have therapy tomorrow, but I have to.
1
SPEAKER_01
What time is it there?
1
SPEAKER_01
It s 820.
1
SPEAKER_01
I know the time difference is.
1
SPEAKER_01
I have to cancel within 24 hours.
1
SPEAKER_00
You literally canceling therapy in the middle of our.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s hard because I never know what my schedule will be when I m here.
1
SPEAKER_01
Sorry.
1
SPEAKER_00
No, do it.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s very important.
1
SPEAKER_00
If I miss a therapy session or like I don t show up, it s hours and hours of guilt.
1
SPEAKER_00
I get very, I don t know why I get so weird, but it happened to me once.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, more than we re like, you forgot.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like I really forgot.
1
SPEAKER_00
It was like waking up out of a fever dream.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like I was like, and I was like, I told her I was so sore.
1
SPEAKER_00
And she was like, it s OK.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
I just enough.
1
SPEAKER_01
But it s weird.
1
SPEAKER_01
Wait.
1
SPEAKER_01
So then this is kind of interesting.
1
SPEAKER_01
Do you think you have some codependency with your therapist?
1
SPEAKER_01
For sure.
1
SPEAKER_00
You do.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, I don t know how deep I can go into this, but my therapist has known me since I m eight years old through my mom.
1
SPEAKER_00
And so she is
1
SPEAKER_00
in many ways, not like a second mother, but she feels like she s part of my family.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I know a lot of people will go, what?
1
SPEAKER_00
You all have the same therapist?
1
SPEAKER_00
They think that that s weird and shouldn t happen.
1
SPEAKER_00
But just given the dynamic and the things that happened in our family, it s actually really helpful to have someone who knows everything, who literally was there.
1
SPEAKER_00
It just means I have less
1
SPEAKER_00
Here s a PowerPoint.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I actually think that because there are things that she knows that I don t even know, it s complicated.
1
SPEAKER_00
But now having worked through certain things with my mom, I wasn t in therapy as a kid, you know, it was the nineties, that was crazy.
1
SPEAKER_00
But there are things that she did actually to directly help my mom be a mom to me.
1
SPEAKER_00
So it s very moving her place kind of in our family, but you don t have a codependent relationship with your therapist.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t think so.
1
SPEAKER_01
I really think I have a healthy relationship with her.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know, I had, this is funny, this therapist I currently have, I ve had for two years.
1
SPEAKER_01
I had another therapist before who was great, but there was some specific needs I needed to address that I knew she had experience in a very specific thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
But it s really funny because I do have codependency slash guilt around the original therapist.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Because I stopped going to her.
1
SPEAKER_01
I didn t have a conversation.
1
SPEAKER_01
You didn t?
1
SPEAKER_01
No, because I also wasn t at that point in time.
1
SPEAKER_01
I wasn t seeing her regularly.
1
SPEAKER_01
I wasn t seeing her like weekly.
1
SPEAKER_01
It was kind of more emergency by the end.
1
SPEAKER_01
So it didn t feel necessary.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I have a friend who knows her.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like as a friend?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so sometimes I just feel like, oh God, I wonder if she thinks I m bad because I didn t have a conversation or I wonder if the therapist is upset by that.
1
SPEAKER_01
But also
1
SPEAKER_01
I truly believe in practicality.
1
SPEAKER_01
A therapist can t be mad about that.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like that s actually their job is to understand people s needs change and are affected and that they maybe don t owe you that, especially if it s every if it s the way it was.
1
SPEAKER_01
I guess if you re seeing someone every week, maybe, although not really.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s not like if all of a sudden I started a new general practitioner.
1
SPEAKER_01
You re not telling your original practitioner, I m moving somewhere else.
1
SPEAKER_01
You just do it.
1
SPEAKER_01
But we have this different sense with the therapist because they know so much about you.
1
SPEAKER_01
But it s funny because they know so much about you, but you don t know anything.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, you do in your case.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
She doesn t share a lot.
1
SPEAKER_00
I feel like psychiatrists weirdly share a lot.
1
SPEAKER_00
And you re like, well, it s like a weird thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
Psychiatrists are interesting.
1
SPEAKER_01
But there s this intimacy that comes with therapy.
1
SPEAKER_01
But it s funny because I think if you are doing it sort of correctly, the intimacy is one-sided.
1
SPEAKER_01
You shouldn t feel that you owe that.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s part of the thing you re working on to begin with is like boundaries and not all of that stuff.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_01
I just find it so funny.
1
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, the original therapist, the OT.
1
SPEAKER_01
OT?
1
SPEAKER_01
I do have some guilt about.
1
SPEAKER_00
She s really cool.
1
SPEAKER_00
So my take on it is that she definitely not that you did anything wrong, but I think she definitely thinks about you because
1
SPEAKER_00
Therapists are people too.
1
SPEAKER_00
I ve learned it through being in therapy that, you know, at one point, you know, I was talking about a situation where there was someone in my life that was not very helpful.
1
SPEAKER_00
She was like, well, who in your life like would be, you know, which is a great thing a therapist can do or a friend, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
If you have a friend that s telling you about a problem, a very, you know, difficult relationship, it s about like, okay, let s look at relationships where you do feel like you can be yourself.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I started naming people.
1
SPEAKER_00
I named you, I m sure.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then she was kind of waiting, like,
1
SPEAKER_00
For her?
1
SPEAKER_00
No.
1
SPEAKER_00
But it wasn t a, it wasn t even a ego thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think she just wanted to know that she was a helpful person in my life, but she didn t even come up in my head.
1
SPEAKER_00
Cause I m like, you re not.
1
SPEAKER_00
My friend.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
She can t be your friend.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s not, I, sorry.
1
SPEAKER_00
And now I m, you know, I m totally paraphrasing.
1
SPEAKER_00
See, now you re getting worried that she s going to listen and be upset.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
I only have an OT and I want to keep my OT.
1
SPEAKER_00
But no, I think she said like, who is supportive or who are voices, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
That, that are, you know, and that s when I realized like, oh, and even at one point I was like, you re only saying this because you re my therapist.
1
SPEAKER_00
She was saying something positive about me and my life or whatever.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I don t actually do this a lot where I don t really defy her in that way.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think that s, I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t think that s helpful.
1
SPEAKER_00
But in that moment I was kind of like, yeah, but like, and she was like, Elizabeth, she calls me Elizabeth.
1
SPEAKER_00
She was like, Elizabeth, do you think that I work with people that I don t like that?
1
SPEAKER_00
I m just lying about liking you because you pay me as opposed to like, do you think I could really talk to you every, every week if I didn t delight in who you are and think these things about you?
1
SPEAKER_00
Like, and that was also a helpful moment where again, therapists are people.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then have you had friends who have fallen in love with their therapist?
1
SPEAKER_00
I know three people who had to quit their therapist because they started falling in love with them.
1
SPEAKER_00
And one of them was in a full relationship and she was aware that this was not real, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
Because she s like, I don t know him, but he s cute and he listens to me.
1
SPEAKER_00
And she had to stop.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I think she ended up telling him, but I would think that there are a lot of therapists who...
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, some people stop calling you and it might be because they ve literally fallen in love with you or they don t like you.
1
SPEAKER_00
But from the therapist s standpoint, they don t know.
1
SPEAKER_00
It doesn t have to be that.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s not you either are in love with them or you don t like them.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s a horrible way to look at it.
1
SPEAKER_01
No, it s it s I think we ve hit the limit here of what we can do together.
1
SPEAKER_01
They are people.
1
SPEAKER_01
But in my head, they would have the feeling right.
1
SPEAKER_01
They d have the feeling of,
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, God, what happened to her?
1
SPEAKER_01
She didn t like me.
1
SPEAKER_01
And oh, no.
1
SPEAKER_01
Of course, my hope for a lot of reasons is that they have the tools, what they would then tell somebody else, what they would tell a client, which is it s not about me.
1
SPEAKER_01
Obviously, they re here for help.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s why they re here.
1
SPEAKER_01
They re not here to be my friend.
1
SPEAKER_01
They re not here to have this intimate relationship.
1
SPEAKER_01
They re here to get help.
1
SPEAKER_01
I wouldn t want you to be here if it s not working.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I would hope that after the initial human thoughts, they d have the professional thoughts.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think my current therapist, my CT, would do that.
1
SPEAKER_01
She would have that line of thinking.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s why I actually do feel very safe with her.
1
SPEAKER_01
She s so level-headed.
1
SPEAKER_01
and systematic in her thinking while understanding, again, the human thought and then following that up with a more objective thought.
1
SPEAKER_01
Right.
1
SPEAKER_01
She s so good.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know, I don t know, but okay, I probably have to cut this.
1
SPEAKER_01
No.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, I don t know because I don t know how revealing it is for the O.T.
1
SPEAKER_01
But my friend who knows the O.T.
1
SPEAKER_01
posted something recently with her and had commented that she s been upset for three years and she doesn t know why.
1
SPEAKER_01
No, no, no, no, no, no.
1
SPEAKER_01
They had been together on like some sort of trip or something.
1
SPEAKER_01
And they were talking about some meals and like how her friend made this meal.
1
SPEAKER_01
I saw this and and thought, oh, my God, I really want to make that.
1
SPEAKER_01
I really want to make that.
1
SPEAKER_01
I really need the recipe.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I asked my friend.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I don t know if that was rude.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s so funny because I also have a story I probably can t share, but like an ex of mine.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s definitely a red flag if you re trying to fix them with your therapist.
1
SPEAKER_00
That wasn t really my responsibility.
2
SPEAKER_01
But my ex ended up seeing my therapist for several months and I knew that it was helpful while we were together.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then my therapist was like, he ghosted me and she clearly felt hurt by it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Interesting.
2
SPEAKER_01
So my theory is everyone s a person.
2
SPEAKER_01
And even if you have the tools and you re going to get out of it, your first reaction might be you re still human.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, I agree.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s what I m saying.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think you have the reaction, but I would hope that you d follow it up with the tools.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes, I think the OTs are okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, they re fine.
2
SPEAKER_00
They ll make it.
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It tastes a little bit like Rice Krispie Squares.
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That s a kind of aftertaste.
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But it doesn t taste like much.
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And they have flavored ones too that taste really good.
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We re learning more and more and more obviously that gut health is kind of
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It affects your mind, like it can affect depression.
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Any other updates?
2
SPEAKER_01
I haven t seen you in a bit.
2
SPEAKER_01
Anything to share?
2
SPEAKER_01
I joined the apps again.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s like a fall move.
2
SPEAKER_01
Fall boyfriend?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I m on the hunt.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, passively.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I thought, you know what?
2
SPEAKER_01
The weather s getting... I mean, the weather s not even getting colder.
2
SPEAKER_01
I just need the fall to arrive.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t really want to go on dates, but I feel like I need a crush.
2
SPEAKER_01
I basically had a crush and then I can t say what they did.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, it s boner shrinker.
2
SPEAKER_01
But also, it was a dangerous crush.
2
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_01
There were already flags.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, flags is an understatement of the year.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
OK, so you had a crush and now that s not a crush anymore.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I just think I have too much space in my head right now.
2
SPEAKER_01
I just need a crush.
2
SPEAKER_01
And there was a whole theory out there that you should always have five crushes.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, my God.
2
SPEAKER_01
Monica, Liz, listen, though, five crushes is not five people that you re actively going on dates with.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s not what I m recommending at all.
2
SPEAKER_01
Five crushes is one person that s at work and you think it s kind of cute.
2
SPEAKER_01
or your barista that serves you your, you know, little coffee every morning.
2
SPEAKER_01
The jog walker that you run into sometimes not at 9.30 at night during the day.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you have issues with codependency or again, that you zero in on, because I zero in on people too much sometimes.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I see.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re trying to diversify as opposed to like, just like removing the level of love addiction.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes, because what happens when you are so fixated on one relationship, quote unquote, working out is that you ll end up doing things or changing yourself or trying to change them, doing all of the fun behaviors that make your life a living hell.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so one of the things that actually is recommended for people who have codependency is like actually to date several people.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t like dating several people.
2
SPEAKER_01
I find that exhausting, but I think it s good to have like a wide array of cuties.
2
SPEAKER_00
OK, I m not going to fully reject that because I think there s merit.
2
SPEAKER_00
I do think it s too exhausting to be just on a constant like, who do I like?
2
SPEAKER_00
And I do think it s love addicty personally to just be like, oh, my God, this person s cute.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, my God, I like that.
2
SPEAKER_00
I like that.
2
SPEAKER_00
I like that.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s to me overwhelming and exhausting.
2
SPEAKER_00
But look, we re also different people.
2
SPEAKER_00
And what serves me is not necessarily what s going to serve
2
SPEAKER_01
Totally.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think for some people, I totally agree.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think for me, it just means I m not, I m actually not being love addict-y.
2
SPEAKER_01
If I have a few people that I find interesting or with who there might be, it s not even potential.
2
SPEAKER_01
It means I m not overly focused on one specific relationship.
2
SPEAKER_01
Obviously there s a ranking, like the cute person that you saw at the post office isn t like a person that maybe you ve actually been on a date with.
2
SPEAKER_01
For me, it creates
2
SPEAKER_01
this framing of there s so many possibilities.
2
SPEAKER_01
And one thing not working out doesn t mean that, you know, your life s over.
2
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_01
But that s my tendency.
2
SPEAKER_01
And for you, it might be something completely different.
2
SPEAKER_01
So this might actually create more problems.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
How interesting.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Five crushes.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s like a theory.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think it was this woman that again, I should just Google it, but I think it s of the same school of thought that if you re single and you re open and you want to be in that vibration, it s giving one compliment to a stranger every day, genderless, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Like it s not about, Oh, I m going to give them a compliment so that we get married.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s just changing your mindset of just being open and being interested, seeing good in others.
2
SPEAKER_00
I like, I do like that.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m not going to do it, but I like it.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m going to do it this week.
2
SPEAKER_00
I ll tell you how it s fundamentally changed my life.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
2
SPEAKER_00
Write down the compliments because I want to hear what they are.
2
SPEAKER_00
Actually, really do it so that we can talk about it next week.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay, great.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay, let s do some questions.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
This is from Mary.
2
SPEAKER_00
How do I not get jealous of other friends  friendships?
2
SPEAKER_00
My friend just got engaged and I m so over the moon for both her and her fiance.
2
SPEAKER_00
We are 25, so they are the first of our friends.
2
SPEAKER_00
We were chatting about having an engagement party and she said she wanted to wait until her other best friend was free to come travel to our city, which sounded fair until she picked a weekend that I m away traveling.
2
SPEAKER_00
I get that it s not about me and sometimes things like this happen, especially on short notice, but I am hurt.
2
SPEAKER_00
This feels like I am clearly second tier.
2
SPEAKER_00
How do you stay happy for your friend and not let your feelings get in the way?
2
SPEAKER_00
And how do you manage jealousy over other friends  friendships?
2
SPEAKER_01
It s a good question.
2
SPEAKER_01
Really good question.
2
SPEAKER_01
I just think weddings, just life events.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s one of the things that makes growing up really, really fascinating to me because that s when you find out that you might not be as important to someone as you thought that you were.
2
SPEAKER_01
And again, I m not saying that this is even remotely the case in this situation, or you can learn that you re more important to someone
2
SPEAKER_01
than you actually were.
2
SPEAKER_01
I remember once not even thinking I d be maybe even invited to my friend s wedding because we were very close at one point, but we kind of lived separate lives.
2
SPEAKER_01
And she was like, do you want to be my bridesmaid?
2
SPEAKER_01
And I remember being like, wow, I m so happy.
2
SPEAKER_01
And of course, but I didn t even... And so that was, again, a readjustment of, okay, you perceive this relationship in this way, I d perceived it differently.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it doesn t mean that one perception is right.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s just where they are at that time.
2
SPEAKER_01
And their decision is also based on so many other factors that you don t even really know about.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I think it s normal, again, like our original question, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Or OTs of just taking it personally and believing that the actions of someone else are directly related to how they view you, your value to them, your closeness, your proximity, your intimacy.
2
SPEAKER_01
But in reality, other people s actions, just like yours, really, really, really about them and particularly with a wedding.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ve never organized a wedding.
2
SPEAKER_01
I hope I never have to because it looks so stressful.
2
SPEAKER_01
And difficult.
2
SPEAKER_01
And part of it is, you know, I m really bad at logistics and details.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like I m having a housewarming and I ve given half of the people an invite that says Friday and the other half Saturday.
2
SPEAKER_01
And people are like, is it Friday?
2
SPEAKER_01
And I m realizing I m probably going to have two housewarmings, honestly.
2
SPEAKER_01
No.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God.
2
SPEAKER_01
I did.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay, Liz.
3
SPEAKER_00
Actually, this is so funny because you sent the invites out via text.
3
SPEAKER_00
I did.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it was confusing because I was in New York with Molly and I got your text.
3
SPEAKER_00
You sent to me and three friends and, you know, we responded.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then Molly was like, oh, did you get a text from Liz?
3
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then I was like, wait, why is Molly on a different text?
3
SPEAKER_00
Can you explain?
3
SPEAKER_01
We don t have a group chat with Molly.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so I knew that we had a group chat.
3
SPEAKER_01
So basically I was trying to streamline the process.
3
SPEAKER_01
So you were just like going through your text.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
I know that we have a little group that we go to drinks.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so I was like, Oh, I ll send it to all of them so that they all have it.
3
SPEAKER_01
I knew that you were traveling too.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, I didn t want to flood you.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I decided to actually do it that way so that
3
SPEAKER_01
And see, like you could have thought, oh, she didn t send me to me first, which I don t even know.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, no, no, no, no.
3
SPEAKER_00
That wasn t the question.
3
SPEAKER_00
I definitely didn t think you were sending it to me personally.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was just like, what s happening?
3
SPEAKER_00
She s sending out one by ones.
3
SPEAKER_00
But then this was a group.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then I guess like, yeah, on your behalf, I was like, oh, God, this feels chaotic.
3
SPEAKER_00
It is.
3
SPEAKER_00
It still is.
3
SPEAKER_00
It will be.
3
SPEAKER_01
So is it Friday or Saturday?
3
SPEAKER_01
It s Friday.
3
SPEAKER_01
OK.
3
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, this is why I don t organize things.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s not my core talent.
3
SPEAKER_01
So that part for a wedding, definitely it scares me.
3
SPEAKER_01
But then also the emotional thing, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Where people do feel things about the decisions that you re going to make.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so I want to validate Mary s feelings because I totally relate.
3
SPEAKER_01
That would be really difficult for me.
3
SPEAKER_01
I also think that having empathy for the friend and not as a thing of what you re feeling is not reasonable or valid, but understanding her position of having to organize the biggest party of all her friends and family and the pressure.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I think it s like wedding brain.
3
SPEAKER_01
A lot of your decisions actually are difficult and involve so many factors that you as an attendee don t know about.
3
SPEAKER_01
So not to assign too much intention to her decisions.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s okay to feel the things that you re feeling, but
3
SPEAKER_01
Try not to believe the reason that you think she s doing it is the reason that she s doing it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I have a kind of specific take on this because I ve only lost one friendship in my life and it ended because I made new friends.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was still very good friends with this person, but I made new some other friends or I should say I got close to some friends and it bothered her a lot and she could kind of not get over it.
3
SPEAKER_00
It ended that friendship.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it really upset me because she was so hung up on my relationship with these other people as opposed to my relationship with her.
3
SPEAKER_00
I kept saying, you keep asking about that relationship, but me and you can hang out.
3
SPEAKER_00
Me and you can have a very strong relationship, but you re so focused on this other thing that we can t.
3
SPEAKER_00
That really bummed me out and actually was telling me, you actually don t care that much about our personal friendship.
3
SPEAKER_00
You care about the larger thing and the larger group.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, OK, well, if you don t want to prioritize me and you.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s all I care.
3
SPEAKER_00
I care about having individual strong relationships.
3
SPEAKER_00
And for Mary, I would say I think a little bit is reframing.
3
SPEAKER_00
And of course, it s going to hurt your feelings.
3
SPEAKER_00
Of course, these things do.
3
SPEAKER_00
And and like you said, it s OK to feel it.
3
SPEAKER_00
But then I think it s about you evaluating your personal relationship with this person.
3
SPEAKER_00
Are you happy with it?
3
SPEAKER_00
And do you feel that it s strong, you re one-on-one?
3
SPEAKER_00
If you do, that kind of has to be enough.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you feel like this is a relationship that serves me and it feels equal and whole and fun and good and healthy, then you kind of have to remove the other people and the other pieces and be happy with what it is.
3
SPEAKER_00
Because once you start comparing to other people and making it about that, you ve no longer made it about the actual thing, which is your friendship.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I know it s hard to do, but I think it s imperative to do because it will lead to a demise if you start doing all this comparison.
3
SPEAKER_00
You have to evaluate for yourself.
3
SPEAKER_00
Is it strong in your head?
3
SPEAKER_00
And if it is, that s all you need.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that if you re in a friendship where it doesn t feel strong or you constantly feel insecure about where you stand or not where you stand, but you know what I mean?
3
SPEAKER_01
Like there s a lot of this happening.
3
SPEAKER_01
Maybe that s something to, again, spend more time thinking about and it can be something internal for you or maybe it is something in the friendship that s not working.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, or maybe that friendship is going to have limitations, as most do, by the way.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s not, you know, I think we do go through life a lot thinking our friends, in the same way we do with romantic partners, they have to be all the things and they have to be perfect and they have to be there for us at all times and be so devoted and check every single box.
3
SPEAKER_00
of loyalty and they don t all look like that.
3
SPEAKER_00
They can be lots of different types of things.
3
SPEAKER_00
You just have to know what it is and be okay with it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And both people have to be okay with it, I think.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it s funny because there s a whole trend right now on social where men are kind of saying, you know, why do women have so many ex best friends, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Why do you know?
3
SPEAKER_01
Because there s a whole coming from the Roman Empire.
3
SPEAKER_01
I ll do a PowerPoint of the last month of TikTok trends.
3
SPEAKER_01
you know, that women s Roman Empire is their ex best friend.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, wow.
3
SPEAKER_01
When I talk to women, they all go, Oh, yeah, it s very common.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think it s women s body count is how many friendships have ended.
3
SPEAKER_01
So the reaction has been a lot of men saying, Well, why are women s friendships so volatile?
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, why?
3
SPEAKER_01
Why are you guys doing you know,
3
SPEAKER_01
Men s friendships last longer clearly than women s because men don t do this.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then women have been reacting saying it s because we have really intimate friendships and we really know each other and it s not just a long-term acquaintance.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I will say that I do think there s a happy medium between those two things.
3
SPEAKER_01
I have been at my worst when I have expected my friends to what you re talking about, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Which is have the demands that I would have like a romantic partner.
3
SPEAKER_01
They re not your partner.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s more what I mean.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, nobody can be all the things.
3
SPEAKER_01
But, but I also think sometimes I m speaking from personal experience, sometimes women, they don t even realize that they re doing it, but they re putting the kind of responsibility that they would put on a partner on their friends.
3
SPEAKER_01
And there are so many times in my life where I would have needed a friend to be there at a certain moment and they weren t able to be there.
3
SPEAKER_01
and recognizing that they have their full life, there s a whole range of reasons why they weren t available at that time, and they just weren t available, and maybe they will be at a different point, and maybe I won t be available when they want me to be available, that it s not this fixed
3
SPEAKER_01
thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
And the more I think you can actually adapt and understand and have compassion for yourself for what you need and have compassion for the other person and what they need in that moment.
3
SPEAKER_01
That has allowed actually a lot of my friendships to really survive and to thrive.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s hard.
3
SPEAKER_01
It means taking a beat.
3
SPEAKER_00
It definitely does.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like me and my walk home from Kara.
3
SPEAKER_00
Why?
3
SPEAKER_00
Because it s the recognition like, OK, a lot of people can t be here right now to save me.
3
SPEAKER_00
And that s OK.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s not that people are abandoning me.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s that they can t.
3
SPEAKER_00
It doesn t mean they love me more or less.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s just this is the reality that people have stuff and lives and things.
3
SPEAKER_00
OK, I don t totally agree because I literally could have come with my razor.
3
SPEAKER_00
But Liz, that would not have worked.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, that s actually a great point.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I love you so much for wanting so badly to be someone who could have fixed that situation.
3
SPEAKER_00
But let s be realistic.
3
SPEAKER_00
You don t have a car.
3
SPEAKER_00
You couldn t.
3
SPEAKER_00
And that doesn t mean you re not an insanely good friend.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s just the reality.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, that s my that s the point.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s a reality that Callie is a baby.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s not a choice.
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SPEAKER_00
Like, you know, there s some there s some realities.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right.
3
SPEAKER_01
Great question.
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SPEAKER_01
I think the more we can actually be open about these questions, because it s also so hard to admit this.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s so hard to say you re feeling jealous, especially with your friend that s getting married.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, you re like, I m such an asshole.
3
SPEAKER_01
But actually, Mary, like acknowledging this, writing a letter about it, you ve already done half of the work.
3
SPEAKER_01
The more we can actually do that, I think the better our friendships will be.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I agree.
3
SPEAKER_00
One last thing I ll say is if you re feeling insecure about a friendship, first and foremost, the thing to do is spend more one on one time with them, like strengthen that relationship if you want to and don t make it about anyone else.
3
SPEAKER_00
OK, let s see.
3
SPEAKER_00
OK, how do you know how many dates to go on when there s no spark?
3
SPEAKER_00
My friends and I are single, and I m gonna go ahead and say not the best daters.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know the kind who will get on hinge, go on a date or two with a guy, decide he s not right, then delete the app for a few months till we decide we wanna try again, or let s face it, until we decide we want attention.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes, love the honesty.
3
SPEAKER_00
Totally.
3
SPEAKER_00
Anyway, none of us has left any of those dates feeling a spark.
3
SPEAKER_00
Some dates are an obvious no, but there are plenty of in-betweens.
3
SPEAKER_00
They were fine, attractive enough, nice enough,
4
SPEAKER_00
but not great enough to necessarily feel excited to see them again.
4
SPEAKER_00
So how do you know how much effort to put in before deciding they re not a good match?
4
SPEAKER_00
Should there be some sort of date minimum in case they re just shy or haven t opened up yet?
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SPEAKER_00
Do you think one date is enough and it s onto the next one?
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SPEAKER_00
Is the spark real when you re 30 plus?
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SPEAKER_01
I literally was just thinking about this.
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SPEAKER_01
I m excited about this question.
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SPEAKER_01
Go.
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SPEAKER_00
No, you go because you probably have a better.
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SPEAKER_00
Well, no, I m such a bad person to answer this because I am like one and done.
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SPEAKER_00
That s not true.
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SPEAKER_00
I m one and done.
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SPEAKER_00
If actually, yeah, I am.
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SPEAKER_00
I am fairly one and done if I m just like, yeah, that was that was fine.
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SPEAKER_00
I will sometimes force myself like I ll be like, well, I have to go out again because they were nice.
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SPEAKER_00
And like, I guess I should.
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SPEAKER_00
And so I will.
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SPEAKER_00
But none of those things ever.
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SPEAKER_00
Even let s say we hang out three times.
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SPEAKER_00
It s never growing or changing.
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SPEAKER_00
And so at that point, I m like, no, but I could have said no after the first time and save myself some time.
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SPEAKER_00
So I don t know.
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SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
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SPEAKER_00
This is for me.
4
SPEAKER_00
This one is hard.
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SPEAKER_00
I relate.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
I want to be more like you again this week.
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SPEAKER_01
I was like, I got to be one and done.
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SPEAKER_01
I d let things run too long.
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SPEAKER_01
And when I clearly kind of knew that it wasn t.
4
SPEAKER_01
But I understand also going on more dates and wanting like wanting something to work out and also wanting not
4
SPEAKER_01
Not to give people a chance, but, because then there s the whole thing about, they tell you, you re not supposed to feel fireworks.
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SPEAKER_01
And if you feel really attracted to them, that s bad.
4
SPEAKER_01
And so sometimes I found it very hard to differentiate between, is this someone healthy?
4
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
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SPEAKER_01
You ve said that to me where I ve been like, I don t know, I m just, and you re like, well, is it just because they re not nuts?
4
SPEAKER_01
They re not taking you on a fun ride.
4
SPEAKER_01
They re just steady.
4
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
4
SPEAKER_01
And one of my best relationships by far, I went on seven dates with him before I even kissed him.
4
SPEAKER_01
A friend set us up.
4
SPEAKER_01
After the first date, I was like, I m not dating this person anymore.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I called him because I felt like, you know, we got set up.
4
SPEAKER_01
I can t just send a text.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then on the phone call where I was calling to tell him I didn t want to go any more dates, I ended up agreeing to the next date.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then again, and he kept being like, do you still want to do this?
4
SPEAKER_01
Like he was great.
4
SPEAKER_01
Like he was very self-aware and could notice that I was like needed to go really slow.
4
SPEAKER_01
And in the end we were together for two years.
4
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
4
SPEAKER_01
And now I recognize I was scared.
4
SPEAKER_01
He was very available and that in many ways was kind of terrifying.
4
SPEAKER_01
So it s hard because yeah, you wonder, am I going to make a bad decision?
4
SPEAKER_01
Could love grow?
4
SPEAKER_01
So I definitely get the dilemma.
4
SPEAKER_01
Also trust yourself and trust your gut, particularly I think on the apps.
4
SPEAKER_01
If it s someone that again, you got introduced to or someone you know background about and you know that there s all these common things like, yeah, maybe go on a second date that maybe you wouldn t.
4
SPEAKER_01
But now when it comes to kind of total strangers, I m like, believe your gut and it s just not the right fit.
4
SPEAKER_01
Another advice that I found really useful and I come back to very often is the job of the first date is just to figure out if you want to go on a second date.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then the job on the second date is just to figure out if you want to go on a third date.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s not to figure out if this is the love of your life.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s good advice.
4
SPEAKER_01
And that rule has kind of helped me.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s not that you re going on a date with someone that s awful to you.
4
SPEAKER_01
No.
4
SPEAKER_01
But if you re not excited, it isn t the right fit.
4
SPEAKER_01
And you have to go on so many dates to feel the right fit.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think that I end up blaming myself, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
I go, I should feel excited about this person, but you don t.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that s fine.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that is what it is.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Also, I was talking to someone about this recently.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think it s just really good to know what you ultimately want.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I don t mean like characteristics.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, do you want to get married and or do you really want to have a family?
4
SPEAKER_00
And like, do you know that some people know that they re 100 percent?
4
SPEAKER_00
I want this in my life.
4
SPEAKER_00
I need this.
4
SPEAKER_00
I do think if that s your goal, you have to give people a little more time.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think if you re more in the middle, like me, where I sort of feel like I m not so sure if that s something I need in my life, then, of course, I m way more willing to be like, well, this person is not interesting enough for me to spend time with, so I m not going to.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think it actually makes it harder when you re in a position like me, who s just like, I m not sure what I need or want.
4
SPEAKER_00
But if you do know that you want a romantic partner, you want a family or whatever, you do have to make decisions based on that.
4
SPEAKER_00
And you probably, in my opinion, have to give people a little bit more leash.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I also think that men tend to be more simple when it comes to dating.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I don t mean that in a pejorative.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think that so often women like the I should be attracted to him thing.
4
SPEAKER_01
Men don t do that.
4
SPEAKER_01
I know.
4
SPEAKER_01
They just they re not and they re not.
4
SPEAKER_01
And women, it s like we kind of gaslight ourselves, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
With this idea of, you know, I should want to be with him.
4
SPEAKER_01
And it s like, no, but you don t.
4
SPEAKER_01
And that s okay.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think being a little bit more, not even like primitive, I m not even talking about physically, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
But that you re just not attracted to them as a person, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
You think they re great and nice, but you don t have that romantic connection.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think men are quicker at just being like, we don t have it.
4
SPEAKER_01
And, and that s it.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
And part of it is because I do think, you know, I ve heard this so many times in reference to women.
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t really hear it towards men, even though maybe it s happening and I just am totally missing it.
4
SPEAKER_00
But women get pegged a lot of being so picky.
4
SPEAKER_00
People have said that about me, like, you re just so picky.
4
SPEAKER_00
And of course, I m so fucking picky.
4
SPEAKER_00
When is there another time in life to be picky but choosing your partner?
4
SPEAKER_00
And it is a pejorative that people have placed on, I think, a lot of women.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I reject it.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s great.
4
SPEAKER_00
I love it.
4
SPEAKER_00
So wait, where are you falling?
4
SPEAKER_00
You re like 50-50?
4
SPEAKER_00
On what?
4
SPEAKER_00
On like what you want.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s kind of how I always feel where it s I want someone who I find additive, who brings something to the table that I don t currently have in my life that s comforting and great and safe and whatever.
4
SPEAKER_00
But also I can live without it.
4
SPEAKER_00
I do know that.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think that makes a huge difference.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think if you re someone who really and there s so many and it s great who know that they need a family that I think changes your trajectory of dating.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m so jealous of you.
4
SPEAKER_01
I wish.
4
SPEAKER_01
No, it s just different.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you re right.
4
SPEAKER_01
And again, it s my job to also let go of it and not let it take over.
4
SPEAKER_01
But you know, sometimes I just wish I could date like in my 20s, right, where it was just dating whoever and not really thinking about things long term.
4
SPEAKER_01
And sometimes that s been my advice to myself, where if I m overthinking it, I m like, how would I date if I was my 20s, as opposed to like, based on one conversation deciding if this
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, material and dating is weird.
4
SPEAKER_01
And, and, you know, I think I ve said this before, but I just wish we had more opportunities to be like, there are certain people that I ve been on dates with where I m like, if we worked at the same office, or if we went to the same church, right, all things that I don t even currently have, seeing them in a repeated context, that s not them trying out.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, and me trying out, but that maybe in a different context, it would end up becoming that way.
4
SPEAKER_01
I do wish that modern life was more conducive to meeting a wider array of people, honestly.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, it can be if you you can join classes, you can start, you know, you can open up.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m tired.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, exactly.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m tired.
4
SPEAKER_00
At the end of the day, I don t want to go out.
4
SPEAKER_00
cuddle.
4
SPEAKER_00
I know.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I get it.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that s the older you get.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, the less energy you have.
4
SPEAKER_00
And also the less patience you have for wasting your time.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think that s also part of it is just when she says 30 plus Yeah, once you get over
4
SPEAKER_00
that age, your life is getting settled.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know yourself.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I had so much more tolerance for dating.
4
SPEAKER_01
I love the people I was dating in my, I mean, love some of them.
4
SPEAKER_01
Most of them were great, but I knew myself less.
4
SPEAKER_01
I wasn t as specific about what I wanted.
4
SPEAKER_01
The beauty of your twenties and just youth in general.
4
SPEAKER_01
And again, we are still young.
4
SPEAKER_01
There s still so much unfolding and that s unpredictable, but I guess I missed that.
4
SPEAKER_01
It feels more playful and innocent and
4
SPEAKER_01
Curious, as opposed to, I feel like dating in your 30s is really its own thing.
4
SPEAKER_01
People don t really have chill.
4
SPEAKER_01
Part of what makes dating fun is just having fun and being open to play and to discovery.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think it s challenging.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, I think that might be all for today.
4
SPEAKER_00
From my storage closet and from you in your bed, we did it.
4
SPEAKER_00
We did it.
4
SPEAKER_00
And we ll be back together for next epi.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I can t wait for you to be back.
4
SPEAKER_00
All right.
4
SPEAKER_00
See you next week.
4
SPEAKER_00
Bye.