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Shop skinnyconfidential.com.
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She s a lifestyle blogger extraordinaire.
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Fantastic.
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And he s a serial entrepreneur.
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A very smart cookie.
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And now Lauren Everts and Michael Bostick are bringing you along for the ride.
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Get ready for some major realness.
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Welcome to The Skinny Confidential, him and her.
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Aha!
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Actors are different because they re playing a role.
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I m just me.
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So they think that they know me because they now know my life.
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So whereas like, you might not go up to like Kylie Jenner or Timothee Chalamet because there s like space between you that is inherent because actors is different because there s like, you re not meeting them.
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You re meeting the role that they played.
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Don t get me wrong.
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I m grateful.
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And it s, there s nothing better than someone wanting to take their picture with me.
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I m so honored.
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It is just interesting how like, there s just no boundaries for some people.
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Hope you guys had the most amazing Thanksgiving.
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Welcome back to The Him and Her Show.
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Today s a fun one with lots of twists and turns.
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We have Jenna Lyons.
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You may recognize her from her J Crew days.
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But now, she is an American fashion designer, businesswoman, and television personality.
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I think she is the star of Bravo s Real Housewives of New York City.
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She s a real breakout star, and she s also recently launched Lovescene, a false eyelash beauty brand.
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She s the CEO and co-creator of the company, and she s just major in New York.
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She talks a lot about her childhood, what inspired her to join Real Housewives.
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She talks about J.Crew, how to create a timeless wardrobe.
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She really, really covers all the things in this episode.
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This is one of those ones that I m going to go back and listen to because I liked it so much.
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And she s quirky, she s fun, she s beautiful, and she s living life on her own terms.
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I love it.
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Jenna Lyons, welcome to The Him and Her Show.
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This is the skinny confidential Him and Her.
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Jenna fucking Lyons is on the show.
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I am so excited.
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It s really funny because the way that I was introduced to you, and I want to see if you remember this, is you did an article, and I can t remember the publication, about what your day was like.
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Okay.
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This is six million years ago.
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So long ago.
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I ve done many of those.
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And I m obsessed with people s like morning routine and nighttime routine.
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And you walked us through like your whole morning and your whole day and your whole night.
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And this is a long time ago.
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I want to say it s like maybe 10, 12 years ago.
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Okay.
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And I was so inspired by you because there wasn t a lot of women that had that fluidity in their life.
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And it was very entrepreneurial at the time.
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Wow.
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I hope I can find the article.
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I don t know which one that was.
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What did I say?
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It was a big article.
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I m going to try to find it.
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Okay.
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It was just interesting how you walked us through your day and like you seemed like you had flexibility in your calendar.
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And now to see you on housewives is full circle.
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So, but I want to get like the lay of the land with you because you ve had a very eclectic, interesting life.
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Okay, that s a good way to put it.
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Yeah, I think the first thing we do is go back.
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You were born with a syndrome.
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Genetic disorder.
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Explain that.
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So I have what s called incontinentia pigmenti, and it s a genetic disorder that affects the skin, the teeth, and the hair.
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And so my teeth were conicular when I was growing up, which means like cones.
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I have huge bald spots in the back of my head.
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I have scars all over, discoloration in my skin.
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It was not that fun growing up.
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People, kids are mean, and particularly with your teeth, my teeth were, you know,
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Every time you open your mouth, having conicular teeth is not so fun.
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It was hard to hide.
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Like my skin I could cover up, my hair I could put in a ponytail, but my teeth were really hard to hide.
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And so I got teased mercilessly.
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Did you feel like you had to constantly hide all these things from other people?
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Oh, yeah.
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I mean, I didn t totally understand the extent of it until I got into like seventh grade when like boys and being cute and like all that stuff started to come into the picture.
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Prior to that, I didn t really get it.
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I remember, you know, I d be in a, you know, an assembly at school and I d hear the kids behind me going, Oh my God, look at her hair.
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Why is she bald?
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Or I d
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I was standing in line at Knott s Berry Farm and I heard the girls behind me go, look at her skin.
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What is that?
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Wait, is that that s so gross.
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Oh, my God.
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And like those are the kinds of things that would play in my head.
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And so it like, yeah, you start to hide.
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It s interesting because I feel like that wouldn t fly now.
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I think it would.
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I think it goes, you said it s done quietly.
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Yeah.
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People, I mean, I think kids are cruel.
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Kids are cruel.
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And I mean, listen, bullying happens all over the place.
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I mean, you see people like, and it happens in other ways where people do it, like, you know, group chats.
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And I mean, that kind of stuff happens.
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People are not that accepting of things that are different than them.
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When you were growing up with this, did your parents give you context of what was happening or did they kind of not know what to do either?
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I don t think my mom and my father wasn t really there.
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My mom didn t really know what to do.
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And I think, and it s interesting now looking back, it s like my, you know, I ve learned a lot.
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I m getting older about how to handle things with myself and my own child.
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And I remember my mom saying like, don t worry, you re beautiful.
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Don t listen to them, which basically is like,
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ignoring someone s feelings and trying to make, and that s actually the last thing you re supposed to do.
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But my mom didn t know.
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You know, she had no idea.
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No one told her.
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And also, my genetic disorder is so rare.
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Like, she didn t have anybody else to talk to.
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And she also, my mom had Asperger s, so she didn t, her social skills were off.
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She didn t, like, she just didn t care what anybody else thought.
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So she was like, why would you care?
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You know, it was hard.
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It was definitely, she didn t have any resources.
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Nobody talked about bullying back then.
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Because with Asperger s, we have a friend that has Asperger s and I ve learned spending time with her that it s like, there s very few gray areas.
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Is that a good way to?
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And the thing I ve learned, and I have to be really careful talking about this because I have spoken a little bit about it and I ve gotten a lot of feedback from people who, it is a spectrum situation and it s not a one size fits all.
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What my mother experienced and what I experienced with her is a lack of ability to make connections and a lack of empathy.
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She did not, like if I skinned my knee, she was like, okay, let s go wash it off.
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It wasn t like, oh my, I m crying.
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And she was like, it was very much like situational, like let s take care of the problem.
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But there wasn t a connection to my emotions and my sadness or my fear.
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She couldn t identify with that.
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So she didn t know how to handle it.
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And again, this is specifically my mother.
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It s not a general, everyone, it manifests differently for everyone.
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And so, yeah, it was hard.
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I think she saw that I was suffering.
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She just didn t get it.
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She didn t know what to do.
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Yeah, and as a child, I imagine that s hard because you model a lot of your parents  emotional responses, so if you re not getting it.
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That was great for my relationships.
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Yeah, it did really well for me.
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When you were little, did you know that something was amiss, or did you not have any idea until you got older?
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I didn t know, I remember going to like my friend s houses and I would see that like their moms were like cuddly and wanted to hang out with them and we re having friends over and like there were dinner parties and you know guests over and we didn t have any of that in our house and it was very quiet and you know it was also my mother was a piano teacher so we weren t allowed to have television or music because she was teaching and the house was small and so
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I knew that my house was different, but I didn t really understand why.
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I just thought it was because my mom was a piano teacher.
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I associated the quiet and the lack of boisterous energy because it was her job, and then it wasn t until I got older that I started to understand.
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I didn t know my mother had it until she was 74.
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She was at my house and a friend of mine was going to leave who had been trying to make eye contact with her and say, OK, well, I m leaving now.
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It was so nice to meet you.
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And my mom just put her head down.
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She was like, it was nice meeting you.
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And I m like, Mom, he wants to give you a hug and say goodbye.
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She s like, well, you know, I have Asperger s.
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And I was like, OK.
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No, I didn t.
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And it just kind of came, stumbled out.
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And she, you know, and again, I only talk about this now because she s passed.
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So it s like I never spoke about it before.
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But, you know, she she d taken some tests and like every box she checked and she realized that and
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I think it was helpful for her to know because I think she felt bad.
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She knew something was off.
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She didn t know what was wrong.
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She had no idea.
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She d never been diagnosed.
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helpful for you when she said that kind of a relief?
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It was helpful.
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I also think like I was angry at my mom, you know, I think I was really I felt bad that she like I knew she didn t I didn t think she liked me.
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She was very not very nice to me.
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She was always putting me down and I was it was hard and I kind of pulled away from her because I remember going home and every time I would leave
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home, I would feel depressed.
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I m like, why do I always feel so sad when I go home?
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And so I had pulled away from her and it gave me a lot of tenderness and, and like much, I was able to, I m so happy I found out before she passed because I was able to find grace with her and not harbor so much resentment.
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I feel like you grow up as a person when you do find grace for your parents and you have empathy.
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And even when you become a mother, you start to understand why some decisions were made that you couldn t understand.
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And it s, there is a relief about it.
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I think that you find a lot of strength within, within the moments of your childhood that are, that are hard.
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I mean, I certainly have.
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And I think that it s really helped me to become stronger, more resilient.
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Listen, obviously there s, there s things that aren t good about it.
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Well, it s like that Tony Robbins thing, and I m going to butcher this, where he s like, hey, the two brothers, and one of them is very successful, and one of them is not successful.
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And he says, well, why are you so successful?
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He s like, my dad was an alcoholic who beat me.
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And they go, well, why are you a failure?
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My dad was an alcoholic, and he beat me.
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And it s like, you kind of have two choices.
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And it comes to, I mean, it s hard to your point.
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But at the end of the day, you re the one that makes the choice.
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Yeah, I think also some people are born with different tools in their tool chest.
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Like not everybody is able to pull up.
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Like I have so much tenderness for people who can t.
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You know, I think it is a gift and you are super lucky.
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And I think Brynn is like, it s not, it s not like everyone is able to.
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And I ve seen that so much with friends and I have friends who s, you know, who, you know, brother and sister and like one of them is doing really well and the other one s not and they have the same exact upbringing.
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And it s like the other one just couldn t, they couldn t pull up.
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And it s sometimes,
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It s hard.
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It s really interesting to see, you know, now being a parent, like, I think I m so different with my son than I think I would have been had I not had that experience because I m over.
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I mean, I tell him I m proud of him, like, literally, he s like, I know, mom, I know.
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You know, I don t think my mom ever told me she was proud of me.
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But it s like I do it all the time.
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What are you guys smiling about?
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I just think that s cute.
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I think that s cute that you tell him that.
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He s going to grow up and he s really going to appreciate that.
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I hope so.
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What are things that you besides that that you do differently as a parent now?
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Like how have you used everything in your past to make you feel like you re being a better version?
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I mean, I think there are things that I remember really distinctly that I just will, like, are lines I won t cross.
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Meaning, like, I will never, my mom used to do, like, little digs.
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Like, oh, well, you know, you re just doing that for attention.
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Or, oh, well, you just want, you know, somebody to notice you.
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Like, little things like that.
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And they added up for me.
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And I remember those so much more distinctly than anything else that was positive.
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So, like, I don t, I will never, ever say to him, like, I ve heard parents say, like, oh, you just ruined it.
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Why did you ruin that?
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Or, I just will, I will never, it will never come out of my mouth.
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I don t really yell.
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I ll sit him down and be like, hey, I want you to understand.
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Here s why I felt that way.
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Here s why I m upset and try to explain it to him because my mom never did that with me.
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I had no idea what s going on half the time.
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It was just like radio silence.
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And so I am very, you know, that being said.
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I do think like he s probably not seeing, you know, I don t get angry and he s not as attuned to people getting angry.
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I mean, that s going to be interesting to see.
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Like, I m obviously not perfect.
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I m figuring it out.
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But I have made very specific choices about never to ever, ever tell him that he s like not valuable in some way or not good at something.
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It s like never happens.
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It s interesting because even as young as three, I see my daughter looking at my reaction when something bad happens.
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Like, for instance, like if, you know, she knocks over the coffee and it spills all over the white couch.
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You laugh, right?
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Yeah, she s looking.
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She s watching my reaction.
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And then when it happens again, if it s something I do or he does, she ll use the verbiage that I use.
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Like it s it s crazy.
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Like I.
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I have thought, for myself as a parent, that I want to say, oh, it s OK.
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It s an accident.
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Just diffuse it.
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It s OK.
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If it s an accident, I m not going to scream or yell or berate her.
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And I ve noticed now when he does something or I do something, like we spill something, she ll say, it s OK.
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It s an accident.
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And I m like, oh, my God, they re like a parrot.
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Yep.
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I mean, there s no question that stuff imprints so deeply.
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It s shocking and so young.
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I mean, three years old.
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It is shocking.
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But it also makes you understand like how people who are abused end up abusing.
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It s like it s so written in their code.
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Yes, that s so true.
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And it s amazing when someone who has a really hard upbringing has managed to flip that story because it s hard.
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It s like it s ingrained.
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It s in there.
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It s hard to break it.
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Yeah.
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And what is your relationship with your brother like?
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I mean, I adore my brother.
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He s like the sweetest person on the planet.
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He s also super hot.
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Is he single?
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I mean, he s not single.
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Everyone is obsessed with him and it s so cute.
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It s one of those things where because we grew up in such a non-communicative household, my brother and I don t really talk.
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Like, I would do anything for him.
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I would jump in front of a bus for him.
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I know he would do the same for me.
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Like we are, we have been there for each other in any moment of any time, whatever was going on.
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But we just don t like, I mean, he doesn t even answer my texts.
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Yeah, but I have to text his wife.
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That s your way, though, of how you guys grew up.
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It s where you guys are comfortable.
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That makes sense to me that sometimes you guys don t answer each other s text.
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It makes sense.
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Oh, I mean, ever.
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It s yeah, it s comfortable.
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I mean, I have just I have to like, but if I DM them a funny meme, I have to send it to his wife, too.
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And like I on his birthday, I sent him a voicemail and a video and a FaceTime.
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And I literally never heard from him.
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And I finally had to call his wife and say,
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Did he get it?
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And does he say he got it?
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Yeah.
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She s like, you know, he just doesn t look.
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It s hard to text back.
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It s hard to keep up with all of it.
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No, I m on your brother s side.
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Are you?
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Are you bad at it?
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I m not a good texter.
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What form of communication do you use the most?
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To be honest with you, I really don t want to communicate after I m done working because there s so much work done on the phone.
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I know.
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I d rather communicate in person.
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I fully agree.
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But that s I mean, are your friends easily around you?
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Is it like that?
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Uh, sometimes, but sometimes not.
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I m, I m kind of like your brother.
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Do you get in like, do your friends give you a hard time?
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Yeah, I get in trouble all the time, especially as a woman.
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But we re probably both the worst.
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We re probably both the worst on text.
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I m better on email and text for surprisingly.
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Really?
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I think the texts come in so fast.
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There s like the lot.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, at one point there was like 800 unread on my phone cause I just, I couldn t get through them and I gave up and then I just went through and mass deleted all of them without looking.
1
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
1
SPEAKER_01
Because I figured if it gets back, it s probably important, but I just couldn t... We could be doing this show and 40 could come through because... It s three hours or it s two hours, whatever.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s from one person with eight messages.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s a little absurd.
1
SPEAKER_01
People don t have a good text etiquette, I feel.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh, there s no question.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, I think we didn t, I mean, it s funny because I was watching something not too long ago and they were talking about the fact like when cars first came out, there was, you know, they didn t have seatbelts and they were, you know, sometimes they exploded because they were, over time things have improved.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like that technology was introduced and it was improved over time.
1
SPEAKER_00
There are airbags, there are seatbelts, they re required, all these things.
1
SPEAKER_00
And the fact of the matter is, you know, text and email and all these things, like they re new technologies and we haven t really safety-proofed them for adults or kids.
1
SPEAKER_00
And we re just kind of,
1
SPEAKER_00
winging it.
1
SPEAKER_02
And it s hard to be like seatbelt boundaries.
1
SPEAKER_00
I know.
1
SPEAKER_00
Right.
1
SPEAKER_00
I also I want a car seat.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_02
I want a car seat.
1
SPEAKER_01
My dad was kind of a crazy guy.
1
SPEAKER_01
He was younger, but he tells me these stories about when, you know, he was younger and he would one day just like up and bail out and go to Europe for three months.
1
SPEAKER_01
what he said was the coolest thing, which is different now.
1
SPEAKER_01
He s like, nobody knew where he was.
1
SPEAKER_01
It wasn t really a way to get a hold of him.
1
SPEAKER_01
You couldn t follow what he was doing.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then he d come back three months later, and there d be all these stories, and you d have to connect with people.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think that it s great that we re so connected, but I also sometimes think it maybe is not so great at times.
1
SPEAKER_00
You can t disappear.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s really, I think, and I think it is in a place and a time when you re so connected to everything, being able to disappear is...
1
SPEAKER_00
Pretty magical.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, there s this place called Vivamar, which is in Austria that I go to with my girlfriend.
1
SPEAKER_02
Oh, here he goes.
1
SPEAKER_02
He s taking notes.
1
SPEAKER_02
Go ahead.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m obsessed.
1
SPEAKER_00
And basically it s like a total, it s a complete reset and it s all like medical spa stuff.
1
SPEAKER_00
And like, you know, it s, and they completely redo your gut.
1
SPEAKER_00
And they basically are like, it s a no phone place.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, you can have, but it s really no one s on their phone and it is.
2
SPEAKER_00
an absolute gift.
2
SPEAKER_01
Are you doing like facials and like meeting with a doctor?
2
SPEAKER_01
Like everything.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s not like anything that s here in the United States.
2
SPEAKER_00
So it is a combination of beauty and wellness and doctors.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so basically they will look at everything from what your food intake is, what kind of allergies you have, what your blood oxygen level is, what your blood, you know, like do a blood scan, do everything.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then they will recommend all kinds of treatments, both beauty and health.
2
SPEAKER_00
and just take care of you for like, you have to go for at least seven days.
2
SPEAKER_00
I usually, I recommend 12.
2
SPEAKER_00
It is, and then the food is completely non-alcohol, alkaline.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s incredible.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you leave there feeling like half your size and like your energy is out of your, out of control and you feel so much better.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s a detox, it s a perfect detox.
2
SPEAKER_00
I highly recommend it for anyone who has a kind of crazy life.
2
SPEAKER_00
I would love to do that.
2
SPEAKER_02
There s a story I haven t told on the podcast, but then when I look back on this memory, it s a little different for Lauren because she was so postpartum, but right at the beginning of the pandemic, before the pandemic was announced, there was this weird cuss period.
2
SPEAKER_02
Remember that time when people didn t really know what was going on?
2
SPEAKER_00
I just thought it was going to be for the summer.
2
SPEAKER_00
How could we all forget?
2
SPEAKER_00
We all face dramatic stress.
2
SPEAKER_00
I know.
2
SPEAKER_02
I worked on this deal and then I closed this deal for these businesses.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I was like, hey, we re going to go out to the desert in Palm Springs.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I let loose.
2
SPEAKER_02
And it was me and Lauren and our closest friend and our kid.
2
SPEAKER_02
And it was just this little bubble.
2
SPEAKER_02
We went to go relax.
2
SPEAKER_02
And literally the day we got there, the pandemic was announced.
2
SPEAKER_02
And what happened was,
2
SPEAKER_02
Well, nobody knew we were there.
2
SPEAKER_02
And then the city ordinance passed and said, Hey, nobody s allowed to do any rentals.
2
SPEAKER_02
And the guy that I was renting the house from called me.
2
SPEAKER_02
He s like, listen, we can t have anybody.
2
SPEAKER_02
Nobody can come.
2
SPEAKER_02
If you want to stay here, I ll let you stay here for the whole month for like a hundred bucks a night.
2
SPEAKER_02
And it was a nice place.
2
SPEAKER_02
And so we stayed out there for a month.
2
SPEAKER_02
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_02
Nobody knew we were there.
2
SPEAKER_02
Nobody was trying to reach us.
2
SPEAKER_02
Nobody could come there.
2
SPEAKER_02
And it was just this tiny little bubble, but nobody was communicating.
2
SPEAKER_02
And it was one of the best times ever because nobody was on the phones.
2
SPEAKER_02
And we were just out there.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I started thinking, this is what it used to be like before people were so connected on this thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s really frightening to me.
2
SPEAKER_00
And with my son,
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, we were talking about, like, do we do something where it s like, the phone goes into a basket on Saturday morning and it doesn t, and you get to check it at noon and you get to check it at four and it stays in, like, a friend of mine, Emily, does this and she s like, and I m so wanting to, it s so fucking hard.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s really hard.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I mean, I have a rule like no phones at the table does not matter.
2
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely, you cannot have your phone at the dinner table.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s a good rule.
2
SPEAKER_00
Ever.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that is, and we live by it.
2
SPEAKER_00
My son will not, like he will not pull his phone out the table.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s nothing worse than seeing a couple sitting across from each other at a restaurant and they re like in their phones.
2
SPEAKER_00
The worst.
2
SPEAKER_00
That is the worst.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s the, I m like, what are you?
2
SPEAKER_00
What are you doing?
2
SPEAKER_01
I also think with what you and I do, I find it to be way more interesting when I meet someone who s super entrepreneurial and driven and they put their phone down.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s it s it s unexpected.
2
SPEAKER_01
When I when I go out to eat with someone, my phone is in my purse.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t.
2
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
2
SPEAKER_01
And also like enough is enough.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, it s also if you re sitting across from someone like, I m sorry, like I owe you my attention and my eye contact.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s like basic level respect.
2
SPEAKER_00
And again, if I want to share something with you on my phone or show you a picture, that s one thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
Or maybe just take a quick snap, put it away.
2
SPEAKER_00
But honestly, I m like really I m not into it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s funny because now, you know, with this new television show that I ve been on, it s like hard to hide, you know, and I m in the middle of I ve been in the middle of a deep conversation and someone has come up to me and said, can I take a picture with you?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I m like,
2
SPEAKER_00
And I ve said to them, I ve said, I m in the middle of a conversation.
2
SPEAKER_00
Can you give me a minute?
2
SPEAKER_01
Do you actually say that?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
If I m, if I am in the middle of a conversation and I m talking to someone, I will absolutely say that.
2
SPEAKER_00
So what do they say?
2
SPEAKER_00
They usually will say, some people will say, oh, I m sorry to bother you.
2
SPEAKER_00
And they ll walk off or some people will wait.
2
SPEAKER_00
I ve had every version of it.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s, it sounds like you re really good at setting boundaries.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, I m terrible.
2
SPEAKER_01
But that s a boundary that you just told me.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s just one of them, but it s not, I m not good with a lot.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you aren t, not great.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, I m getting better, but I m not great.
2
SPEAKER_02
But I feel like because, I mean, you ve had such an eclectic career, but it s interesting.
2
SPEAKER_02
I feel a lot of people that do what you do now, they don t really know how to handle that experience.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like you obviously don t want to be rude or mean, but also you have to have some kind of healthy boundaries and be treated as a person.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think it s less about me.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s about the person I m talking with.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, one time I was like having like,
2
SPEAKER_00
kind of a serious conversation with someone on the street who I used to work with, and we hadn t seen each other in a long time, and they were going through a rough time, and they were like, oh, it s so good.
2
SPEAKER_00
I used to be their boss, so we were in this intimate conversation, and I was talking to them about their new situation and what s going on, and this person was emotional, not crying, but just like, we were in it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I do think there s a certain amount of emotional IQ, which we talked about earlier, it s like, read the room.
2
SPEAKER_00
This is not an appropriate time.
2
SPEAKER_00
When someone is deep in someone else s space and standing close and talking, it s intimate.
2
SPEAKER_00
maybe is not the time and it doesn t mean I m like grateful when people ask don t get me wrong and it s lovely but I also think there is this idea like people sometimes I think have this sense of familiarity because they know you right and I get it at the same time I m like hey
2
SPEAKER_01
You also are very recognizable.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like it s the glasses and you have this like and I m tall chic look and you re tall and it s very it s a very specific beautiful look.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I can imagine it s hard for you to now be famous.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I feel like you ve always been known, but how is this different?
2
SPEAKER_01
This is different.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s different.
2
SPEAKER_02
Every time we have someone that comes on from a show, a property like this, we control this environment.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s safe.
2
SPEAKER_02
We can produce what we want.
2
SPEAKER_02
People know us, but it s not so mainstream.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I think even with some actors and celebrities that are doing more of the traditional stuff, you know them and you see them.
2
SPEAKER_02
But I think in the world of reality TV,
2
SPEAKER_02
People feel one very entitled to any opinion whatsoever and to be able to voice that opinion and also feel because you signed up for this, they re entitled to your time.
2
SPEAKER_00
Completely.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I also think, you know, actors are different because they re playing a role.
2
SPEAKER_00
What s different about this is that I m just me.
2
SPEAKER_00
So they think that they know me because they now know my life.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so, whereas like, you might not go up to like Kylie Jenner or Timothee Chalamet because they are, there s like a space between you that is inherent because they re not, you re not, and Kylie Jenner, she s on that show, but like actors is different because there s like, you re not meeting them.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re meeting like,
2
SPEAKER_00
the role that they played.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s so again, don t get me wrong.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m grateful.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s there s nothing better than someone wanting to take their picture with me.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m so honored.
2
SPEAKER_00
It is just interesting how, like, there s just no boundaries for some people.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think, too, the show has so much history and fans like it s like I have watched all the seasons of every single franchise.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ll tell you why I like it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think that my business life is so chaotic to be able to come home and watch other chaos in a way is like a therapeutic way for me to just tune out my brain.
2
SPEAKER_01
Do you watch it together?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, he watches.
2
SPEAKER_02
I m not as like if it s on and I m with her then I will.
2
SPEAKER_01
I love it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t have
2
SPEAKER_01
any guy that says they re not paying attention in my life so it s kind of like interesting but any guy that says when that s on that like they don t want i mean you can t draw your eyes away from some of the stuff that goes on on these shows it is fascinating i get sucked in i start yelling i m like why are you doing that i m obsessed with human nature and i m just like obsessed with the whole the whole like dynamic
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I don t have like I m not around like a ton of women like that.
2
SPEAKER_01
So to like watch it unfold with alcohol is like wild.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I also think there s an inspiring part about it because a lot of the housewives have some really incredible things going on.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, it hits a lot of points.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s interesting that I think.
2
SPEAKER_00
Would you have favorite one?
2
SPEAKER_01
I love New York, New York, New York, Beverly Hills to New York, Beverly Hills.
2
SPEAKER_02
Because there s nothing like the attitude of New Yorkers.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s blunt.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think New Jersey s close because it s just so chaotic, but I think like New York, I think all of the women that come together on the shows and all the backgrounds, it s so eclectic and so different.
2
SPEAKER_01
I also like seeing you guys  houses and your closets and your shoes and your bed.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, it s just like, I just, it s just like a thing.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s like such a nice way to like, it s almost like meditative.
2
SPEAKER_02
Would you ever do it?
2
SPEAKER_01
I m too boring.
2
SPEAKER_02
I ll tell you why.
2
SPEAKER_01
What are they going to film me doing?
2
SPEAKER_01
What are they going to film me doing watching Housewives?
2
SPEAKER_02
Jenna, here s what I said about this.
2
SPEAKER_02
I don t think it ever works out for the men.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think there s very few men that have been able to go on these properties.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think women don t like to see men in women s business in the fights.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t think
3
SPEAKER_01
they want to see them defending their wives or getting in the squabbles with other husbands.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think we keep saying this on this show.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was watching Steve Harvey and he was talking about a marriage and the marriage should be a closed circle between two people and they should go through their issues.
3
SPEAKER_01
When you invite the world and everyone s commenting on you, you re inviting a certain kind of energy.
3
SPEAKER_02
Trust me, she knows.
3
SPEAKER_02
A hundred percent.
3
SPEAKER_02
I agree.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I think for the men in particular, there s very few that have come out looking good.
3
SPEAKER_00
I agree.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think it s a really delicate balance to strike.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I, you know, listen, I, I think everyone goes into this.
3
SPEAKER_00
What you can t understand, like what no one can understand and myself included is like, you, you are putting yourself out there, but you re, you ve no idea what parts of you are going to get selected.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re not in the editing room.
3
SPEAKER_00
So you don t know how, like, you know what it s like.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you take an excerpt of anything, it can be turned into something.
3
SPEAKER_00
So you re putting your faith into something.
3
SPEAKER_00
And like, at the end of the day, the goal is to create
3
SPEAKER_00
like drama and energy and tension and all of those things and laughter.
3
SPEAKER_00
But, you know, that s you are serving yourself on a silver platter and it is a massive risk.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I think when you enter into it as a couple, it is just the layers of complexity go way up.
3
SPEAKER_02
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I have learned so much about the gut and how important it is to take care of the gut.
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SPEAKER_02
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SPEAKER_02
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SPEAKER_02
I ve interviewed the founder, I think like three times.
3
SPEAKER_02
I ve learned all about this specific probiotic from a microbiologist.
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SPEAKER_02
It s one of the only ones that actually survives the trip to the gut.
3
SPEAKER_02
So much so that I actually like went into a deep dive of their products.
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SPEAKER_02
And I also really like their psychobiotic which goes in tandem with the probiotic.
3
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Both these things are so good for your immune system and your gut.
3
SPEAKER_02
What I do for my kids you guys is I take the Just Thrive probiotic.
3
SPEAKER_02
And I crack it open, and I put it in a smoothie.
3
SPEAKER_02
I even do it on my dog food sometimes.
3
SPEAKER_02
I am all about a good probiotic.
3
SPEAKER_02
If you re not taking care of your gut, I would definitely look into it and make it a priority, because the gut is where a lot of things start.
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SPEAKER_02
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You can get 20% off a 90-day bottle of Just Thrive Probiotic, the one I take, and Just Calm at justthrivehealth.com with promo code SKINNY90.
3
SPEAKER_01
To your point about like pulling a sliver, I know exactly what s like that.
3
SPEAKER_01
And listen, they ll cut up this show and we ll get those slivers.
3
SPEAKER_01
But at the end of the day, I will also release the full version to give the context so that if somebody ever says, I mean, well, you know, clean it up.
3
SPEAKER_01
But if somebody says, Michael said this and I didn t like it.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, no, I could share the full context, but maybe with you on the show, they re never going to show that full context and you re just, you re at the mercy of that.
3
SPEAKER_00
For sure.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it s like, you know, we ve all had parts of our story being told and it gets interpreted and people then make comments about it and say things and it s like, there s more there, but it doesn t really matter.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s just a show.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I think that s the part that gets lost.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
Because at the end of the day, it s like, it s hard to separate the part that s like, yes, this is your life, but it s a show.
3
SPEAKER_00
And let s be real, this isn t my entire life.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re seeing a sliver.
3
SPEAKER_00
And obviously, I m being protective of my private life as much as I possibly can.
3
SPEAKER_00
And as much as I m sharing, I m also being protective.
3
SPEAKER_00
And obviously, everyone wants vulnerability and you want to know everything.
3
SPEAKER_02
But they can t know everything.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right.
3
SPEAKER_02
Let s be real.
3
SPEAKER_02
And by the way, no one shows everything.
3
SPEAKER_00
It would have to be a show only about one person for every, I mean, no, and honestly, like, let s talk about boring.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I m the most boring one on the show, like, and I know the girls have, like, they re like, you don t carry your weight.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m like, I m sorry.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, without them, like, they re the sparkly, like, I m like, they re the sparkly stars.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m the one who, like, sits in the corner, like,
3
SPEAKER_02
Isn t it interesting how she thinks that?
3
SPEAKER_00
No, it s so true.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think that s so interesting.
3
SPEAKER_00
I feel like you re the star of the show.
3
SPEAKER_00
Thank you, but if you really watch, watch, no, really watch.
3
SPEAKER_00
Watch with a different lens and watch with a lens and listen to what I say versus what they say.
3
SPEAKER_00
I am like in reaction.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m in reaction to them.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m oftentimes replaying back off of them.
3
SPEAKER_02
But you re like the narrator.
3
SPEAKER_00
But that s all in retrospect.
3
SPEAKER_00
Think about it.
3
SPEAKER_00
They re the ones on screen doing all that.
3
SPEAKER_00
And as a narrator, I m doing that by myself in a studio and I m being asked questions.
3
SPEAKER_00
When you think about it, they re the ones carrying the show.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s not me.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I know this.
3
SPEAKER_00
I say it to them all the time.
3
SPEAKER_00
They say it to me too.
3
SPEAKER_02
I ll tell you what you are.
3
SPEAKER_02
You re the voice of reason.
3
SPEAKER_02
Listen, I ve got the Housewives down to a formula.
3
SPEAKER_02
There has to be a voice of reason.
3
SPEAKER_02
Lisa Vanderpump was the voice of reason for Beverly Hills.
3
SPEAKER_02
And she was like, she made the quips like you need that sort of character to be the conductor of the show.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that s the voice of reason of New Jersey.
3
SPEAKER_02
The voice of reason of New Jersey.
3
SPEAKER_02
That s a tough one.
3
SPEAKER_02
I have I d have to think about that, Michael.
3
SPEAKER_02
You ll have to get back to me.
3
SPEAKER_02
Maybe Melissa Gorga a little bit.
3
SPEAKER_02
I mean, I think this
4
SPEAKER_01
New York and Beverly Hills have a strong narrator.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know who s narrating the show.
4
SPEAKER_00
What do you think of the Kyle and Morgan thing?
4
SPEAKER_00
I m very excited about this.
4
SPEAKER_00
I want to believe that she s coming over to my team.
4
SPEAKER_02
Well, this is a little bit dicey for us because we have a personal relationship there.
4
SPEAKER_00
Okay, sorry.
4
SPEAKER_02
We could talk about it.
4
SPEAKER_01
So, no, I think... We re really good friends with Farrah.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I think that... What I personally think is I can understand, and I told Michael this, why there s a lot of women
4
SPEAKER_01
who are late in life lesbians.
4
SPEAKER_01
I actually really understand it.
4
SPEAKER_02
Are they late in life lesbians or they lesbians are entirely- Either way, either way.
4
SPEAKER_00
I can understand both sides.
4
SPEAKER_01
I can understand always being a lesbian or late in life, but I m speaking directly to late in life because listen, we get tired of your shit.
4
SPEAKER_01
What is wrong with you?
4
SPEAKER_01
I think that if Michael and I broke up and I was older, I m gonna say like, let s say I was like 45.
4
Okay, okay.
4
SPEAKER_02
I love that there s a marker.
4
SPEAKER_02
She s mapped this out, this is very specific.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I find someone who is not gonna come with all the shit that guys come with, because they come with a lot.
4
SPEAKER_01
So do women.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that s correct, Jenna.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but there s something sensual and easy about women.
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t you know, I think like women being desired It s like I also think that there s this construct that is really hard to place but I see it having now been on the other side and dating women is that Women make assumptions of what men want and it s not always what they actually you know I think and what I mean by that is I find that since I have not
4
SPEAKER_00
been playing to men, I get more attention from men than I did when I was straight.
4
SPEAKER_00
What I mean by that is when there was an undertone that I wanted their attention, I did not get it.
4
SPEAKER_00
And when I no longer wanted it,
4
SPEAKER_00
I got tons of it.
4
SPEAKER_01
I. Oh, my God.
4
SPEAKER_01
This is the this is the tip, guys.
4
SPEAKER_01
Everyone who s listening.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh, this is what I say.
4
SPEAKER_01
All you have to do with every single man is ignore him.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s literally that easy.
4
SPEAKER_01
Just ignore them.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, if you look at them and think of their only your only source of fun with them is this friend.
4
SPEAKER_00
And like there s zero like and you just like as soon as I didn t want to date them, I would start talking to them like they were going to be a friend and I would engage with them and look them in the eye in the same way I would a girl or a guy like a girl or a friend.
4
SPEAKER_00
It doesn t complete.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I m telling you,
4
SPEAKER_00
I got picked up all the time.
4
SPEAKER_00
It was an immediate switch.
4
SPEAKER_00
I could not believe it.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I think also there was a safety because it was like there wasn t this idea that I was coming after them.
4
SPEAKER_00
So any kind of advances I made or advances meaning, you know, being warm, it was okay.
4
SPEAKER_00
It wasn t scary and I wasn t scared and I didn t have any expectations and I didn t care whether I saw them and it was an immediate switch.
4
SPEAKER_01
So what has been the other differences between being married to a man and dating women?
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, there s a lot.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, first of all, sex is right.
4
SPEAKER_00
Is it better?
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, OK, first of all, I want to just say this is no commentary on male and female sex.
4
SPEAKER_00
This is for me specifically.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I think part of it is because I grew up like I when I was growing up and you see it in movies.
4
SPEAKER_00
I just watched that movie.
4
SPEAKER_00
Call me by your name again.
4
SPEAKER_00
And you know, I ve seen that movie.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, you guys.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s the hottest, most beautiful film I ve ever seen.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I got to see it.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s Timothee Chalamet.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s one of his it s an army hammer.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s one of the most.
4
SPEAKER_00
Tender love stories you will ever see it s the hottest film and it s what Timothee Chalamet that was his breakout film Okay, so it s worth watching you and it s the sweetest sexiest thing I ve ever seen but anyway He has you know sex with a young girl and after he finishes he goes over and that s all
4
SPEAKER_00
All I ever knew was once the guy comes, it s over.
4
SPEAKER_00
I thought that that s what it was for years and years and years.
4
SPEAKER_00
And truthfully, I was not wrong.
4
SPEAKER_00
I experienced that not with everyone.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m not saying across the board, but that was primarily how I thought it went down.
4
SPEAKER_00
And there wasn t this automatic assumption that I was going to
4
SPEAKER_00
have an orgasm.
4
SPEAKER_00
That just wasn t part of it.
4
SPEAKER_00
And with women, that is, it s obvious.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like, there s no question both of you are going to get there and no one is stopping until that happens.
4
SPEAKER_00
Whereas that is not culturally the way it is with men and women.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m not saying that men don t finish, I m not, that s not, it s not a general statement, but that s a lot of what I was, was brought up to see.
4
SPEAKER_00
And that s what I ve seen in movies and porn and all the other ways I ve,
4
SPEAKER_00
witnessed sex and I was like, oh shit, that sucks.
4
SPEAKER_00
Again, there are plenty of men out there that know what s up, but there are a lot.
4
SPEAKER_01
So are you saying though that after a woman finishes, that she doesn t just roll over?
4
SPEAKER_01
There s more interaction after sex?
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, and also saying like the reciprocosity of making sure that both finish, like a lot of men just don t do that.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, there are many times that I would have sex with a man and not come.
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t think I could do that.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s not, that s some bullshit.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, you re also married and you have a wonderful, loving, tender relationship.
4
SPEAKER_00
You guys are very connected.
4
SPEAKER_01
I haven t been dating for a while.
4
SPEAKER_00
But if you talk to, when you start to talk to women and you really talk to them, there are many women who don t come or they have to make themselves come.
4
SPEAKER_01
I have a tip if anyone s in a relationship and they re, they re a boyfriend or the guy they re dating or their husband.
4
SPEAKER_01
isn t like letting, I don t know if letting is the right word.
4
SPEAKER_00
No, not letting, I mean making sure it happens.
4
SPEAKER_01
Making sure it happens.
4
SPEAKER_01
Get a vibrator.
4
SPEAKER_01
Which by the way, Jenna, we did not mention this.
4
SPEAKER_01
No, bring a vibrator in.
4
SPEAKER_01
No, no, no, no, no, no.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
4
SPEAKER_01
Jenna, I don t mean get a vibrator alone.
4
SPEAKER_01
I mean bring a vibrator in the bedroom.
4
SPEAKER_00
No, no, no, talk about it and learn how to do it together.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, okay, talk about it too.
4
SPEAKER_00
Talk about what makes it.
4
SPEAKER_00
If someone is not very smart, just bring a vibrator.
4
SPEAKER_02
I never mentioned this to you, but we did start a sex business together that is a little bit of a side work.
4
SPEAKER_02
We have to send you some stuff.
4
SPEAKER_00
OK, great.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m all for that.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think it s also like I wasn t brought up to talk about it.
4
SPEAKER_00
I didn t know how to talk about it.
4
SPEAKER_00
I wasn t I was never encouraged to.
4
SPEAKER_00
And also, I think, you know, with women, like if something isn t working, it s like, oh, do you not like that?
4
SPEAKER_00
Am I in the wrong spot?
4
SPEAKER_00
Can I do it fast or slow or whatever?
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like this.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s a completely normal dialogue.
4
SPEAKER_01
Verbal.
4
SPEAKER_00
Whereas with men, I think if I if they weren t something wasn t working, I think there was a sense of shame that like they weren t doing it right.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I didn t want to make them feel bad or I would feel bad if it was taking too long.
4
SPEAKER_00
So I was like, oh, don t worry about you know, it s like I was
4
SPEAKER_00
I just, the way that I came up in that world, I didn t have the language to say, like, oh, would you do it slower?
4
SPEAKER_00
Would you do that?
4
SPEAKER_00
Or would you move that?
4
SPEAKER_00
Or, oh, like, and I just, I didn t do it.
4
SPEAKER_00
So, like, again, this is my experience.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m not saying in general about men don t know, but I m just saying that was a very different experience for me.
4
SPEAKER_00
It seems like there s no ego involved.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, you re both dealing with the same situation.
4
SPEAKER_00
You both know.
4
SPEAKER_00
And with a woman, it s a little bit harder.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like, with a man, you know, there s a pretty straightforward way to get them off.
4
SPEAKER_00
With a woman, it s a little less clear.
4
SPEAKER_00
And particularly if you re two women, it s like you have to kind of figure it out and you got to know each other s bodies and it takes a second.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so you both know that that s what s up.
4
SPEAKER_00
So there s no confusion about talking about it.
4
SPEAKER_01
What about dating?
4
SPEAKER_01
How is the dating?
4
SPEAKER_00
I ve never really dated, which is so funny.
4
SPEAKER_01
But like when you re around women versus men, like the conversation, what s the differences from a loving perspective?
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I would say that there is a lot more because you mentioned, you re on a similar wavelength and you have the same issues and you know your sensitivities.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think there s a
4
SPEAKER_00
I think that there s definitely, what I ve experienced is a little bit more understanding and tenderness, and there s not that same sense of embarrassment or shame, particularly in little things.
4
SPEAKER_00
I remember how anxiety ridden I would get if I hadn t waxed myself, or if I didn t, anything physical, or if I was like, oh my God, I have a little cellulite.
4
SPEAKER_00
I would get so worked up with a man.
4
SPEAKER_00
And again, doesn t mean that they were feeling that way, but it was my,
4
SPEAKER_00
way that I came to the table of like, I thought, oh, you don t think I m perfect, so I m not attractive to you anymore.
4
SPEAKER_00
Or like that, I would spin that in my head.
4
SPEAKER_00
Whereas like with women, you don t make that same assumption, or at least I don t, because we re both going, we re both in the same boat and we kind of know what s up.
4
SPEAKER_00
And again, this is like, it s just, I think, a little bit of what you come to the table with.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s not that the man is doing anything wrong.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s just like, culturally, that s the way I came up in the world and that s the stuff I bring to the table.
4
SPEAKER_00
And it made me like, it made it hard, you know, and it s just, it s really different.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, I don t think this idea, you said this earlier, like do people come out later?
4
SPEAKER_00
Are they always lesbians?
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
4
SPEAKER_00
I honestly think one of the things that s challenging is, and one of the reasons that I ve been more open about it, is like I never saw an out woman my entire growing up.
4
SPEAKER_00
The only person I ever saw that was out was Ellen DeGeneres and Rachel Maddow, like literally, and then a few soccer players more recently.
4
SPEAKER_02
What was interesting for me personally is my aunt was out.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, really?
4
SPEAKER_02
And I went to my first gay wedding when I was like four or five years old.
4
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
4
SPEAKER_02
And she married a woman.
4
SPEAKER_02
Wow.
4
SPEAKER_02
And what s...
5
SPEAKER_02
State?
5
SPEAKER_02
In California, in San Diego.
5
SPEAKER_02
And I guess, like, looking back, I never thought about it until, like, I ve had more of these conversations, but it was probably, like, pretty formative in the sense that, like, it wasn t strange for me because, like, that s what I saw.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s amazing.
5
SPEAKER_01
I would go stay at their house and be like, I m going to my… That s a very rare experience, though, to be four years old and see that.
5
SPEAKER_01
So amazing.
5
SPEAKER_02
I m going to my aunt s house.
5
SPEAKER_02
I was like, I m going to my aunt s house every Thanksgiving and every Christmas.
5
SPEAKER_02
And she ended up getting divorced, but then got with another woman.
5
SPEAKER_02
And so, like, I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_02
I guess, like, I saw that and I understood it.
5
SPEAKER_00
But I also think the thing that I think that s there s there s it s there s understanding but I think it s also like seeing something that looks like you like on the only gay women I ever saw in public were very butch and I wasn t that person and so I didn t identify I never thought it could be me because I was like oh I don t that doesn t feel familiar to me so I m can t be part of that group like it just didn t
5
SPEAKER_00
It didn t even register.
5
SPEAKER_02
I ll tell you this, though, too, about her.
5
SPEAKER_02
And I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_02
I hope I don t say this wrong or butchered to me at that age.
5
SPEAKER_02
There was no possibility ever that she that I could ever see her with a man.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, interesting.
5
SPEAKER_02
Like there was like I don t know how to explain it.
5
SPEAKER_02
But just like as a kid, like it didn t even like there was no possibility that I would ever even assume that she could be with a man.
5
SPEAKER_02
Does that make sense?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes, it does.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it totally does.
5
SPEAKER_00
But I think that speaks a little bit to what I m talking about is like, I didn t sit so definitively in that category.
5
SPEAKER_00
I was feminine.
5
SPEAKER_00
I liked wearing heels and red lipstick and jewelry.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I didn t fit into the physical iconography that I was seeing around me.
5
SPEAKER_00
That was what a gay woman looked like.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so I was like, oh, I m not.
5
SPEAKER_00
I didn t.
5
SPEAKER_00
It just never even crossed my mind that I would even sit.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it wasn t until I met
5
SPEAKER_00
you know, someone in later in life who I was like, oh, you kind of look like me and I m attracted to you.
5
SPEAKER_00
And how weird is this and what s going on with me?
5
SPEAKER_00
It was like not even online for me prior to that.
5
SPEAKER_01
So you you didn t realize you wanted to date women until you met a specific person.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh, that s interesting.
5
SPEAKER_01
So you didn t like get out of your marriage and say, you know, I d like to meet a woman.
5
SPEAKER_00
No, no idea.
5
SPEAKER_01
So it just happened naturally and organically.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I was terrified.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, imagine, like, I ve never done any of the things that you can imagine go on.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, I was like, I had no idea what I was doing.
5
SPEAKER_00
I was absolutely terrified.
5
SPEAKER_00
And, you know, then she knew that.
5
SPEAKER_02
Men are good at imagining that, I will say.
5
SPEAKER_00
I know.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s probably the one thing that I get asked about the most.
5
SPEAKER_01
Do you get a lot of DMs from girls hitting on you now?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, since I ve been publicly out in a relationship, not as much, but when I was obviously single a lot.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so what do you do?
5
SPEAKER_00
You respond.
5
SPEAKER_00
What do you do?
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I think during the pandemic I responded because I was sitting by myself in the apartment.
5
SPEAKER_00
I was like, sure, let s talk.
5
SPEAKER_00
And, you know, I mean, it depends.
5
SPEAKER_00
It also like, you know, if somebody is private, I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_00
But if there s something, you know, it s.
5
SPEAKER_00
Ultimately, it was all during the pandemic, so I couldn t meet any of these people anyway, so it was sort of safe.
5
SPEAKER_00
I was just sitting in my living room, having random DMs with people.
5
SPEAKER_00
No, I haven t really, I don t actually engage and go on dates.
5
SPEAKER_01
When you re going through all of this and you also have such a big business and you have such a beautiful career, what is the decider factor for you to go on Real Housewives?
5
SPEAKER_02
That was meant to be my question.
5
SPEAKER_02
I wanted to know, I always want to know the motivations of why, like, quote unquote, when people have their stuff going on on paper, the motivation.
5
SPEAKER_00
It was really, it was kind of straightforward.
5
SPEAKER_00
I was, you know, have this brand love scene and
5
SPEAKER_00
We were in Target and we had about, we were in a thousand stores and the places where people knew us, like the places where people knew who I was or knew what Love Scene was, we were flying off the shelves.
5
SPEAKER_00
But the places where people didn t know who I was, the product wasn t moving as quickly.
5
SPEAKER_00
And Target was like, listen, we need you to think about how you can help market this brand.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, what am I going to do that s national?
5
SPEAKER_00
You know, we were small.
5
SPEAKER_00
We didn t have a ton of
5
SPEAKER_00
cash to spend on a marketing ploy.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so I was like, what can I do?
5
SPEAKER_00
And then randomly I got a DM from the people at Real Housewives and it was like, Andy wants us to talk to you.
5
SPEAKER_00
Would you talk?
5
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, sure.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it was completely random.
5
SPEAKER_00
I didn t expect anything to happen.
5
SPEAKER_00
And as I was going through the conversation, I m in the same time having these conversations with Target of like, what can you do?
5
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, well, maybe this is the answer.
5
SPEAKER_00
And therein lies the answer.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it worked.
5
SPEAKER_01
Did you know it was going to be the reboot or did you think it was like Luann, Sonia, Ramona?
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, no, no.
5
SPEAKER_00
They told me it was a reboot.
5
SPEAKER_00
I would not have gone on the show and nothing against them.
5
SPEAKER_00
It just there was no place for me in that show.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I also think, you know, that show to me didn t necessarily represent New York as New York is today.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I think what s nice about the group now is like, yeah, it s so much more diverse in age, ethnicity, vibe and, you know,
5
SPEAKER_00
where people live even.
5
SPEAKER_00
Before it was about being on the Upper East Side and it was all these women that had very similar lifestyles and this is very different.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I totally agree with you.
5
SPEAKER_01
It feels youthful, it feels fresh.
5
SPEAKER_00
And you know, even just having someone on the show who s an actual influencer.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s so funny we all watch Psy because she actually knows what the hell she s doing.
5
SPEAKER_00
All of us, I mean, I ve never been an influencer.
5
SPEAKER_00
I go to a party and people are like, did you get any pictures?
5
SPEAKER_00
I was like,
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, I took a picture of, you know, maybe a screen grab of something I looked at yesterday and I m like, I didn t take any pictures.
5
SPEAKER_00
I went to an event last night and they said, how did your pictures come out?
5
SPEAKER_00
And I m like, I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m going to ask Athena how her pictures are.
5
SPEAKER_00
I can borrow them because I m like terrible with that shit.
5
SPEAKER_00
But Sai is like on it.
5
SPEAKER_00
She knows what she s doing.
5
SPEAKER_00
And like, that s cool.
5
SPEAKER_01
As you guys know, I launched a pink humidifier with canopy.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I m obsessed with humidifiers because it makes your skin so supple and plump while you sleep.
5
SPEAKER_01
I use mine all the time.
5
SPEAKER_01
In fact, my son just got sick like a week ago, and I had my canopy humidifier in his room.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s like the chicest, most beautiful humidifier you ve ever seen, like ever.
5
SPEAKER_01
And recently, they just launched Canopy s new filtered showerhead.
5
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So if you re looking to filter your water, they have you covered.
5
SPEAKER_01
Canopy s known for their beauty hacks and reimagined devices, and they have really given the showerhead a makeover.
5
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Everything is dermatologist recommended for your skin.
5
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They have three stage filtration.
5
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So everything that s coming through your shower head is clean, filtered, beautiful water, which is amazing for dry, itchy scalp.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s amazing for rashes on your legs.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s even amazing for acne.
5
SPEAKER_01
I have learned all about hard water and I ve learned that a lot of dry, irritated skin comes from bad water.
5
SPEAKER_01
So if you don t have a filter on your shower head, I would highly recommend it because a lot of our water has a lot of added chlorine in it.
5
SPEAKER_01
So definitely head over to getcanopy.co.
5
SPEAKER_01
You save $25 on your Canopy Filtered Showerhead purchase today with Canopy s hassle-free filter subscription.
5
SPEAKER_01
I also personally would for sure get the humidifier.
5
SPEAKER_01
It is so good.
5
SPEAKER_01
And even better, our listeners can use code SKINNY at checkout to save an additional 10% off your Canopy purchase.
5
SPEAKER_01
Hurry, your hair and skin will thank you.
5
SPEAKER_01
Let s talk about Weight Watchers.
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Weight Watchers is the number one doctor-recommended weight management program and the trusted authority in evidence-based weight health.
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Beyond the science, joining Weight Watchers means you become part of a powerful, passionate community.
5
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They re all about community there.
5
SPEAKER_01
We got to learn all about that when we had the CEO on our podcast.
5
SPEAKER_01
The company s purpose is to always inspire healthy habits and lasting weight loss.
5
SPEAKER_01
So how they do this is they focus on behavior change, nutrition, science, and real connections while never giving up on the food that we all love.
5
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Personally, I really love how they ve evolved their approach to weight loss over the years.
5
SPEAKER_01
And they re really like with the times, which I appreciate.
5
SPEAKER_01
Weight Watchers has helped millions of members on their journeys over the years.
5
SPEAKER_01
And recently, they ve launched Weight Watchers Clinic.
5
SPEAKER_01
And this provides support to even more people across the weight health spectrum.
5
SPEAKER_01
Most importantly, I think that Weight Watchers knows that weight management is not a one-size-fits-all thing.
5
SPEAKER_01
There are behavioral and biological factors to consider, so they really have a multifaceted approach when it comes to losing weight.
5
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Head to www.com slash TSC to see if you qualify.
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If you do, use our code TSC25 to get your first month free.
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Plus, you get $25 off your second month.
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That s www.com slash TSC.
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This episode of The Skinny Confidential is brought to you by the new L Oreal Paris Bright Reveal Dark Spot Serum and Broad Spectrum SPF 50 Daily Lotion.
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Dark spots, game over.
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We had Dr. Chris.
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He s a dermatologist, top rated.
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He s all over TikTok.
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I asked him on the podcast what his favorite drugstore recommendations were, and he mentioned these two products.
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I have to tell you that I have never related more to a housewife in all the billions of years that I ve watched the show than when you left the house to not sleep over and when you wanted to go on your own flight a day early first class.
6
SPEAKER_01
Thank you.
6
SPEAKER_01
Thank you.
6
SPEAKER_02
I never related more, Lauren.
6
SPEAKER_01
No.
6
SPEAKER_01
Why?
6
SPEAKER_01
Why is that?
6
SPEAKER_01
You don t agree with that.
6
SPEAKER_01
My personality is that exact.
6
SPEAKER_02
Oh, no, no, no.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m a I m not a sleepover girl.
6
SPEAKER_01
I don t want to sleep over at someone s house.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s just not my shtick.
6
SPEAKER_01
I feel like.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m married.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m a mother.
6
SPEAKER_01
I don t want to sleep at someone s house.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s nothing mean.
6
SPEAKER_01
I don t want to sleep at the royal family s house.
6
SPEAKER_01
I don t want to sleep over at someone s house.
6
SPEAKER_01
I want my own space in my own room.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I kind of don t want to take a flight with someone either because I feel like I can get work done.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I d like to be left alone and have a glass of champagne and get there and be refreshed.
6
SPEAKER_01
always, you know, I m not a big bachelorette party person.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s just, I m very self-aware of who I am.
6
SPEAKER_01
And there was a visceral reaction to you not wanting to go with the group.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I ve felt that before from people who
6
SPEAKER_01
want to do sleepovers, and they re projecting what they like onto me.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s interesting.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I think there was a couple of times where those kinds of things happen, where people, what their desires were and the way they wanted something to go, it didn t fit with mine.
6
SPEAKER_00
And they were sort of like, you know, even just wanting me to dress up and saying, like, oh, you should wear sexier clothes.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m like, well, what I think is sexy may not be what you think is sexy.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I love you in that, like, super fitted, like, sparkly dress.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like, by all means, have at it.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s just not me.
6
SPEAKER_00
And it s interesting because it s like that wanting me to fit into like what their vision is.
6
SPEAKER_00
Well, sorority.
6
SPEAKER_00
And well, it s just their, it s what, what makes, you know, and I get it.
6
SPEAKER_00
And the reason is, it s because they, that s what men like to see.
6
SPEAKER_00
Men want girls in skinny tight dresses, but their boobs look hot and they look skinny.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like we get it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like, I m sorry, but you, would you not back me up on that a little bit?
6
SPEAKER_02
I think at times.
6
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_02
But I was going to say like, and one of my things I was going to maybe talk about this now is like,
6
SPEAKER_02
When I see the way you re dressed and the way you re put together, I immediately can recognize.
6
SPEAKER_02
I might not have the greatest style, but I have taste.
6
SPEAKER_02
I m like, that is somebody who s put together.
6
SPEAKER_01
No, Michael s a little different.
6
SPEAKER_01
Michael s a little different.
6
SPEAKER_01
He s the wrong guy to ask because Michael loves taste.
6
SPEAKER_01
He loves the cut.
6
SPEAKER_01
I can recognize taste.
6
SPEAKER_01
If something s not altered on my body, right, he wants the alter.
6
SPEAKER_01
He s a little different.
6
SPEAKER_02
I actually will look sometimes at the way some women are dressed, and if it s a little too basic B, I kind of don t.
6
SPEAKER_01
This is the wrong audience.
6
SPEAKER_02
appreciate the dress up.
6
SPEAKER_01
He s a bigger brat than me.
6
SPEAKER_01
No, I love that.
6
SPEAKER_02
They re put together, you got style.
6
SPEAKER_01
I can see.
6
SPEAKER_01
He would pick your look any day over, like, really.
6
SPEAKER_00
No, but what I m saying is I would not pick your- Okay, but in general though, would you say that men like women to be that very feminine, sort of hot girl?
6
SPEAKER_02
Listen, this show, men are really getting hit on this show.
6
SPEAKER_00
No, no, no.
6
SPEAKER_00
I want to be clear.
6
SPEAKER_00
I want to be clear though.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t think there s anything wrong with that.
6
SPEAKER_02
We like to appreciate the figure of a beautiful woman to say it diplomatically.
6
SPEAKER_00
I get it.
6
SPEAKER_00
And honestly, so do I. Like, please.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like, I love it when Brynn comes in.
6
SPEAKER_01
What you re saying is that because they think that that look is sexy, they re projecting what they think onto you.
6
SPEAKER_00
They were like, yes, they put me in that black dress and they were like, we want to dress you.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I get it.
6
SPEAKER_00
It was fun.
6
SPEAKER_00
It was a fun dress up, but it was interesting to me that for them, they were like, you need to show your body more.
6
SPEAKER_00
You need to look like this.
6
SPEAKER_02
You just can t look like the women that pour out of a Vegas nightclub at 2 a.m.
6
SPEAKER_02
Do you know the look I m talking about?
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh please, I ve seen every version of this.
6
SPEAKER_02
I m gonna get fucking destroyed for saying that.
6
SPEAKER_01
No you re not, it s true.
6
SPEAKER_01
I just think that that was a very interesting thing for me to watch because in all groups like that, I m you, where it s like
6
SPEAKER_01
I need my space.
6
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s nothing against anyone.
6
SPEAKER_00
Listen, it was really hard for me because I felt badly.
6
SPEAKER_00
Never in a million years did it occur to me that me going early was going to be a thing.
6
SPEAKER_01
Because it wouldn t be a thing if anyone did it to you.
6
SPEAKER_01
You wouldn t give a shit.
6
SPEAKER_01
God, I would be like, please take care of yourself.
6
SPEAKER_00
Do whatever you need to do.
6
SPEAKER_00
I am excited to see you whenever you re ready.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like, I m here.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like, great.
6
SPEAKER_00
It did not occur to me.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then I felt bad.
6
SPEAKER_00
I was like, shit, I didn t, like, the last thing I wanted to do was make them feel like I didn t want to be with them.
6
SPEAKER_00
I just was like, I want to go down and get a tan.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s also like, if you look at them, like,
6
SPEAKER_00
Gorgeous Britain.
6
SPEAKER_00
They all have the most perfect skin you ve ever seen on the planet.
6
SPEAKER_00
And they re all tan.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t have nice skin and I m not tan.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m the whitest girl on the planet.
6
SPEAKER_00
And like, so when I don t look tan, my scars show up a lot more.
6
SPEAKER_00
And that s why, and on camera, they get picked up.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like, if you take a picture of my skin, if you look at it like this, it s one thing.
6
SPEAKER_00
If you take a picture of it, the camera, for some reason, picks up all of the different colors in my skin and magnifies them.
6
SPEAKER_00
And that s why I like to get tan.
6
SPEAKER_01
I never noticed it once.
6
SPEAKER_00
Because I was tan.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think you look amazing.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I also cover up.
6
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
6
SPEAKER_00
But I cover up.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t, I m not, I was not, I was in a wetsuit.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like you never saw it.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but I don t think anyone s looking at that.
6
SPEAKER_01
You re so sharp and smart and beautiful.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t think people... Well, they don t look at it because I hide it carefully.
6
SPEAKER_00
No, because on camera, it really comes out.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m telling you.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, listen, you are gorgeous and you obviously take care of yourself and you re very conscious about the way you look.
6
SPEAKER_00
If something bothered you about your body, you would hide it.
6
100%.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I understand that.
6
SPEAKER_01
I also think that
6
SPEAKER_01
You asked me would I ever do the show.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think the hardest thing about the show is the girl strips.
6
SPEAKER_01
That would, that would make me sweat for days because it s going away for three days with a lot of women and a lot of drama and a lot of dynamic and whose room is this?
6
SPEAKER_01
It s easier to just get a hotel room down the street, but it s almost like you can t because that s the show.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_02
We ve been talking a lot about how difficult men are, but I will say,
6
SPEAKER_02
I have never encountered a situation where me or any of my friends gave a shit what kind of flight or how someone got somewhere or if they slept over or not.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t think men are difficult.
6
SPEAKER_00
I think that women want men s attention and women want men.
6
SPEAKER_00
They want to be adored and they want to be...
6
SPEAKER_00
We spend so much time trying to get your attention.
6
SPEAKER_00
And the fact of the matter is, we don t really understand the cues sometimes.
6
SPEAKER_00
I grew up with the complete wrong idea of how to get your attention.
6
SPEAKER_00
And it s just interesting to me.
6
SPEAKER_00
I have found a totally different love and adoration for men in this part of my life where I m not seeking their sexual attention.
6
SPEAKER_00
Cause I get a totally different version.
6
SPEAKER_00
I get a much like, because I m in it, but it s the signals that I m sending.
6
SPEAKER_00
The men haven t changed, but I changed.
6
SPEAKER_02
I grew up with two sisters and I say this all the time.
6
SPEAKER_02
Like my advice to them was always like, if you re interested in someone, like don t show so much interest all the time because, and I also think that, you know, we are wired, I think as men to like, we really enjoy the pursuit and the chase.
6
SPEAKER_02
And I d like in a little bit of denial is not the worst.
6
SPEAKER_02
Right.
6
SPEAKER_02
I think it s.
6
SPEAKER_02
just like how we re wired a bit.
6
SPEAKER_02
When Lauren ignored me for 10, 15 years.
6
SPEAKER_00
And also you don t have to play games.
6
SPEAKER_00
You can just be straightforward.
6
SPEAKER_00
You can just say, hey, do you want to hang out on Friday?
6
SPEAKER_00
And if they say no, great.
6
SPEAKER_00
Don t overthink it too.
6
SPEAKER_00
I think there s a lot of game playing and I think that also enters into it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Analyzing.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
And like, okay, I m going to wait
7
SPEAKER_00
two days to call them and then I m going to see if he texts me.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m like, oh my God, like it just just either if you want to see someone be like, oh, hey, do you want to do something on Friday?
7
SPEAKER_00
Like also, I think sometimes men appreciate when you re just like straightforward and not like, oh, waiting for them to call by the phone.
7
SPEAKER_00
Oh, well, what are you doing?
7
SPEAKER_00
It s like, oh, God, it s exhausting.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, we re kind of like just big, dumb animals.
7
SPEAKER_01
We re like, I don t like the games being played and we don t know that the game.
7
SPEAKER_00
I know.
7
SPEAKER_00
I know.
7
SPEAKER_00
We re like over here playing some game and like we re the only one.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s overcomplicating it.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, like Lauren s like, you know, she always used to tell me, oh, I played this game with you.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m like, I don t, I was not aware of a game.
7
SPEAKER_02
My game worked.
7
SPEAKER_02
I don t even know the sport is happening.
7
SPEAKER_02
I love a game.
7
SPEAKER_02
I love a game.
7
SPEAKER_02
I still play games 10 years in.
7
SPEAKER_02
Did you know that?
7
SPEAKER_01
Ignore his calls.
7
SPEAKER_02
Wait, do you really?
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, all the time.
7
SPEAKER_01
Did you know that she does that?
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but what I, why I don t, why I m so confident in the relationship with my wife.
7
SPEAKER_01
is I m sure she has endless options and possibilities.
7
SPEAKER_02
Glad you know it.
7
SPEAKER_01
But I look at her and I m like, let s find the poor motherfucker that can go and deal with this shit all the time.
7
SPEAKER_00
Good luck, Lauren.
7
SPEAKER_00
You guys are so sweet.
7
SPEAKER_01
That guy would last or that girl would last three days.
7
SPEAKER_01
The games would start happening.
7
SPEAKER_02
No one can deal with you either.
7
SPEAKER_02
It s fine.
7
SPEAKER_02
You really ignore his calls all the time.
7
SPEAKER_02
I ignore texts.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, she does with me all the time.
7
SPEAKER_02
If he acts up, I block him.
7
SPEAKER_02
I play games all the time.
7
SPEAKER_00
She will block me.
7
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yep.
7
SPEAKER_00
No.
7
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God, I love you even more.
7
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
7
SPEAKER_00
And you re still, you don t, do you do it to her?
7
SPEAKER_00
No.
7
SPEAKER_00
No, but like.
7
SPEAKER_01
But I mean, I don t know.
7
SPEAKER_01
I think like it doesn t offend me and I don t care.
7
SPEAKER_01
And I know where I stand with my, yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
And I like, so I was explaining this to Wolf yesterday.
7
SPEAKER_01
I fell in love with the person that my wife is and that s who I desire and find exciting.
7
SPEAKER_01
And I wouldn t want her to not be that.
7
SPEAKER_01
And when people comment like, oh, I wouldn t do this.
7
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, well, that s fine for you.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s your relationship.
7
SPEAKER_01
Like good luck.
7
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
7
SPEAKER_01
I think the thing about a successful relationship is, and again, why I don t think it s good to invite everybody else in, is what works in a relationship should just be applied to that relationship.
7
SPEAKER_00
Totally.
7
SPEAKER_00
What do you guys fight about the most?
7
SPEAKER_02
Me being late.
7
SPEAKER_02
time management, his impatience.
7
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
7
SPEAKER_00
Do you agree with this so far?
7
SPEAKER_00
I could be impatient.
7
SPEAKER_02
His bluntness, his delivery.
7
SPEAKER_02
My delivery can be blunt.
7
SPEAKER_01
That s a big one.
7
SPEAKER_02
The delivery.
7
SPEAKER_02
The delivery needs a softer landing.
7
SPEAKER_01
I grew up with a half Japanese mother.
7
SPEAKER_01
My grandma s full Japanese.
7
SPEAKER_00
Really?
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
You don t look like you have any Japanese in you at all.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I know.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m a bunch of stuff, but there was no tenderness around the delivery, if that makes sense.
7
SPEAKER_00
Believe me, I work with someone who s Korean, and we joke about it all the time because the things that come out of her mouth, she s like, it s my mother.
7
SPEAKER_00
I just can t help it.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s my mother.
7
SPEAKER_00
And it s the cutest thing.
7
SPEAKER_00
And I adore her, but it s funny.
7
SPEAKER_00
Her delivery is like, buh, buh, buh, buh, buh.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s just very direct.
7
SPEAKER_00
And there is no like sort of sugarcoating anything.
7
SPEAKER_00
And here I am like adding 75 words to like make something land softer.
7
SPEAKER_00
And she s like, what are you talking about?
7
SPEAKER_01
I have not learned the art of kind of not sharing exactly how I feel.
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He ll learn.
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It ll be as well.
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When you go from doing what you did at J.Crew to being the entrepreneur, and I think you were an entrepreneur within J.Crew, but I think now you re like really like letting your personality fly with Lovestein.
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What was that like?
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Was that a transition?
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I mean, in so many ways, and I think I have stumbled and gotten up and stumbled and gotten up.
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I mean, I think.
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You know, I went from having a corporate life and structure and sort of a real rhythm, and I knew where, you know, I knew who to call for everything, and everyone picked up my phone call.
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And when I asked for something to get like, you know, I could I was, you know, had a really big job and I was moving a lot of different parts.
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And I went from having like
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a tiny team, no one to change the toilet paper in the bathroom, who s in charge of the Con Edison bill, is that me?
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Little things like filing for a patent.
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I was really my fish out of water.
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Also fundraising, things that I just never done before.
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It s been hard, I will not lie.
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I went from having three assistants and people who worked in the PR and handled everything for me and all of a sudden I didn t have anyone taking care of me.
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How big was your team at J.Crew when you were at the height of it?
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I, my team was 870 something.
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And you have to understand, Michael, like she was responsible.
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I m just going to brag for you for a second of getting J Cruz pieces on some of the biggest, most like amazing celebrity.
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I m aware.
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I ve done my research.
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Like, yeah, like it was like you, you had this finesse about you of not only to create these beautiful pieces, but then to, like you said, get them on the right people in the right spaces.
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It s almost like you were influencer marketing before influencer marketing was a thing.
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Well, the thing I think people don t totally understand is that J.Crew is three brands.
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So it s J.Crew, Madewell, and Factory.
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So I had three different design teams, three different marketing teams.
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It was massive.
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So I was the president of all three of those.
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So it was just a massive job.
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And I was spending, I mean, my schedule was from 830 and went to six o clock, no breaks.
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And then I would go home and then I would be on the phone again.
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you know, till it was just constant.
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So I was exhausted all the time.
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And I think, you know, I didn t stop to, like, actually be creative.
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I think I was literally just was talking to someone this morning about this.
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It s like I never had any time to be creative.
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And that s why I left.
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I think that that s the biggest difference in my life now is like I get to be creative in a way that I haven t in a really long time.
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It s so much better.
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I like it better.
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I m much happier now.
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Yeah.
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It s so interesting that you go from having a team of 800 with three assistants and all the things that check all the boxes that society thinks we need to check to doing it on your own terms, how you want it.
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Maybe it s a smaller operation, but you just have space and time in your calendar to be creative and fluid.
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It s makes you happier.
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Less is more.
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Yeah, exactly.
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And I think we talked earlier about what is success, someone being successful.
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And what I labeled a success back then versus now is completely different.
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I don t have a corner office.
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I don t have all of the trappings.
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I don t get huge bonuses.
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But I literally can have a conversation and look someone in the eye and hear what they say and remember it later.
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And I can go to breakfast this morning and come here and do this podcast and I ll go home and I ll walk.
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I might stop in a store on the way home and I ll grab a coffee and I ll get to wander a little bit.
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And I don t have that kind of like treadmill vibe to my life, which it was soul crushing.
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I was exhausted.
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It s a relief.
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Oh my God, so much so.
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I literally just saw one of the people this morning on my way here.
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I ran into a girl who used to work there and she just left and she was like practically in tears.
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She s like, I am so excited to like have free time and to have my life back.
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And it s true.
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It s like working in a corporate job.
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It s like intense.
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I don t know if you ve ever, have you ever worked in a corporate environment?
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I ve never worked in a corporate environment.
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I ve always wanted to, to
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work for myself.
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I don t think I would be very good at being told what I ve always wondered when you reach that level, I guess, of those heights in a corporate environment.
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And then now you re doing what you re doing now as an entrepreneur, which environment is more stressful because I. Oh, that one is way more stressful.
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The corporate environment.
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Oh, my God.
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I mean, it doesn t mean I don t have stresses now, but.
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That.
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The hard part is like now like in the relationship to it is like I get to look at every single decision and understand it fully and I don t have to go and ask 8 million people how to fix something.
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If I believe something is the right idea I can sit with it and it s my own and I move forward or I don t.
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There what s challenging is if I may believe that this is the right way to go but now I have to bring all these other people along with me and if
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if they don t see, if we re not seeing eye to eye, it s just a, it s like a horn lock.
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And then where do you go from that?
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And then you have all these people looking at you, wanting you to, you know, you re, you ve so many, there s so much riding on every decision.
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There s so many people whose lives you re responsible for.
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There s so many people on your team who are, don t like their boss, think they should get more money, want to raise, just had a baby, can t find a nanny.
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Like there s just so much complication to all of the staffing that those things become bigger than like anything else.
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And it s so hard.
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It s one of the main reasons, like when we ever talk about business that I caution people against actually running a business, they really want it because what they, I think people focus on the product or the revenue or the service or the things.
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But what I say is when you become responsible for other people s well
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well-being and they re looking to you to make smart decisions so that their life is not impacted in a negative way.
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That s the type of stuff like managing a business.
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I m sure as you know, during the pandemic, which killed us and listen, there s always difficult times, but it,
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I could not make a bunch of selfish decisions that would only impact, like every decision is going to have an impact on someone else s life.
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And I think that s the stress that people don t talk about enough, whether it s in a corporate environment or an entrepreneur.
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When you re somebody working in a system, you re thinking about, of course, the team, but it s mostly your well-being.
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When you re responsible for a lot of people, that is different than being responsible for even the revenue or the dollars.
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It s just a whole thing.
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It s so intense.
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And the thing is, if you re
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If you ve worked in any kind of environment where you actually have a creative endeavor, you know that team is everything.
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You are nothing without the people who you work with.
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The quality of what you do has everything to do with the quality of the people that are on your team.
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And so then you care about them, and then you really get drawn in and sucked into whatever problem is happening.
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And it could be
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You know, I ve, listen, I ve had every myriad of problems you could possibly imagine.
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And it s, you know, it takes so much emotional energy and it takes it away from the rest of your life.
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Whatever emotional energy goes into your job, I find it was draining my emotional energy at home.
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And it was really hard.
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I don t think I could, I don t see myself ever going back to that type of role because I just don t think I want to live my life that way anymore.
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Where can everyone find you, support what you re doing?
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Pimp yourself out.
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You can find me at JennaLyonsNYC or at Lovescene.com.
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Thank you for coming on.
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You can come back anytime.
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Thank you both.
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Seriously, because I could have talked to you about a hundred different things.
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Same.
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I think you guys are awesome.
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And I m so enamored by your relationship.
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It s so nice to see.
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I m really touched by it.
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I go and sob in the bathroom after every show.
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Please do.
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It s very nice.
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Thank you.
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Thank you, Jenna.
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Thanks for coming on.