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Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert, Experts on Expert.
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I m Buck Rogers and I m joined by Monica Lightyear.
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Hi.
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Today we have Dr. James Doughty.
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He is a Stanford neurosurgeon, a serial entrepreneur, and a best-selling author.
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His books include Into the Magic Shop and a new book out right now called Mind Magic, The Neuroscience of Manifestation and How It Changes Everything.
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It was a very fascinating topic.
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And a little backstory is required.
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BTS.
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BTS.
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So, I can t remember how much of this we ve already said in the past.
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It doesn t matter.
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It s important for this interview.
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We got our calendar days mixed up.
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Yeah.
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An entire day s work was put on a Thursday that actually was supposed to be on a Wednesday.
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Yes.
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And we were already recording Armchair Anonymous that Wednesday.
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Yep.
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And we were midway through talking to someone and Rob all of a sudden said,
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Oh my God, our expert for tomorrow just texted me that he s five minutes away.
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And I was like, well, tell him he s here a day early, blah, blah, blah.
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And then Rob was typing around and stuff, and then all of a sudden Rob said, no, it s us, which has never happened to us.
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So Tiffany Haddish was the same day.
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From Monday.
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Yeah, and James was that day too.
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Yes, it was so stressful.
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So we salvaged the armchair anonymous, and then James was nice enough to come back.
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Yes, so this was his second time to the attic.
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Yes, and we felt terrible.
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I m proud of the fact that this is the first time this has happened.
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I m shocked it is.
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Yeah, but boy, did we feel stupid.
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Yeah, we did.
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So anyways, that s the backstory of James arriving.
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So let s just start with thanking him for coming back.
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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Please enjoy Dr. James Doty.
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This is the best bagel place in the world.
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What s it called?
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Orange bagels.
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And the line is six miles long, but Rob somehow has it dialed in.
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He has some hookup there.
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Yeah, my friends own it.
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Yeah, that s a pretty good hookup.
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That ll help.
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It s actually better than owning it.
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Yeah.
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It s like having a friend with a truck.
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You get access, but you don t have to deal with the details.
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No headaches, just the fun food.
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All right, well, if you re ready, I m ready to start chatting.
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Boy, thank you, Rob, for that courage bagel.
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So tasty.
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And did you get Jim a fun drink, too, from Maru?
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Yeah.
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The other thing is Maru is the coffee shop here in town, which also has a line two miles long.
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And of course, Rob also has a connection there.
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Got a sweater from each, too.
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Really?
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Wow.
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This is a lot.
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Sweater from Courage and... Oh, from each?
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Oh, wow.
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They have sweaters now at Maru?
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That s where we stood in...
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No, it does not.
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Oh, wow.
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Oh my god, I need that.
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Oh, that s right.
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Cream top.
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That s incredible.
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I ll give that to my wife.
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Well, thank you.
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No, I bet if you wear that on campus, all of a sudden they ll be like...
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Oh, shit.
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I didn t know Jim.
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It kind of sounds like a little bit of a sexual innuendo, though.
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So on campus, I don t know.
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Actually, that somehow connected in my mind.
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I was reading some article on, what do they call it?
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Death Scroll.
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Doom scrolling.
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And it said, man with largest penis in the UK doesn t want surgery.
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No surgery, I m good.
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Yes.
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I wonder how that would be known that he has the largest penis in the UK.
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Is it on his census?
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Like maybe in Sweden where the health data is in a database?
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I was trying to figure that out because you know it s not like something you just go around and wear a t-shirt that says I have a huge penis.
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Yeah.
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And also, not a standard part of a physical.
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It s not like the doctor s ever like, well, we gotta get this penis measurement for your jaw.
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Were there dimensions in the article?
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Yes.
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No, there wasn t.
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What did they say?
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There was.
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12 inches by, I think, eight or something like that.
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12 by eight?
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No.
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Wow.
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It didn t show it.
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Sadly.
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12 inches!
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He went to Oxford, actually, and he s sort of a nerd.
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And he s not a big guy.
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And he s not handsome.
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So he probably looks even bigger than him.
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He s not handsome.
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No, no.
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Not like us.
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Sure, sure, sure.
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He s no Rob, that s for sure.
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That s why Rob has access to all of these things.
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Exactly.
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You know, what s also relevant, since we re on this train of thought, is it s standard that you up it by like 20%.
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If you re six inches, you would say that you re seven and a half.
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Just like height.
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And now women unfortunately have adjusted their thing, right?
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Their boyfriends have been telling them it s this.
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So he probably has to lead with like, I have 14 and a half inches, I d imagine.
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Look, no one wants that.
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There s probably the smallest of subset of women that are interested.
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Like anything.
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I mean, there s always this 5% over here.
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Thank God for the internet for him.
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But this is unfortunately the problem with comparison, which is so common with males and females.
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OK, boy, we could start in so many places.
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First and foremost, you come to us by way of Jon Hamm, which is interesting.
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How did you guys come to know one another?
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Actually, it s interesting.
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He has an agent.
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I don t know if you know him.
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Got him Ryan Ibushi.
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Never met him.
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So I wrote a book that came out in 2016 called Into the Magic Shop, a neurosurgeon s quest to discover the mysteries of the brain and the secrets of the heart.
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It is a memoir that includes contemplative practice, meditation and neuroscience.
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That ended up being a New York Times bestseller.
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It was a bestseller in eight countries.
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And in fact, have you heard of this group called BTS?
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Oh, yeah.
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Oh, the band.
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Yeah, so they used it as the basis for their third album.
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No way!
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Yeah, their album is called Love Yourself, Tear, and the third song is Magic Shop.
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When you listen to that song, do you see the connective tissue or are you like, I don t understand?
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It s in fucking Korean.
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So you re not connecting so much.
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But the words are very nice because BTS is very focused on emotions and caring for others.
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They re very focused on mental health, doing the right thing.
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And that s probably why the book resonated with them.
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Yeah.
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So then I m assuming Ham stumbles across the book.
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Ryan Ibushi read the book.
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He says it s his favorite book.
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He distributed to all his clients at CAA.
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Then John got interested, we met, and then we decided to do a movie.
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And so he s had sort of the rights or toying with that for a few years.
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A docu-series or a narrative?
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Actually about the book itself and my life experience.
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Okay, so where did you grow up?
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I grew up early on in Ashland, Kentucky, but then we moved to Lancaster, California.
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At what age?
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Seven or eight.
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And we also moved around in various and sundry other locations.
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Do you have memories?
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One of my great fascinations is the culture of honor or the culture of pride that is prevalent in Kentucky.
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My whole family s from Kentucky.
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They migrated to Detroit.
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Many of my neighbors had that same culture of pride.
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Very, very retaliatory group, trending high on the violence scale, a lot of fighting, a lot of standing your ground.
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Were you old enough to have yet observed all that?
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I did not observe it, but it s interesting you say that because I had an older brother who was a year and a half older and he was gay early on.
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He was out?
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Well, he couldn t hide it.
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Yeah.
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And he was a brilliant guy, but he would be bullied all the time.
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And I was bigger than him.
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So I would always be his defense.
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Yeah.
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So when trouble would happen in the household, my father was an alcoholic.
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My mother had had a stroke when I was a child.
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So she was paralyzed, had a seizure disorder, chronically depressed, attempted suicide.
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We were on public assistance as a child.
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But what would happen is my brother, if there was any stuff going on, he would go hide in his room and close the door.
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Yeah.
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So I would have to be the guy who either go to the bar or call the ambulance, go with the ambulance to the hospital.
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you had to get responsible very quick.
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Yep.
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Obviously, it s an unfair burden for a child, and it fucks you up in a variety of different ways.
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Who we become as adults is a manifestation of the baggage we carry from our childhoods.
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And actually, when we talk about, let s say, changing our lives, you can t change your life unless you face your background and the drivers of your behavior.
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Because, I m sure you ve experienced, you keep making the same decisions, and you start to go, I don t understand why this keeps happening.
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Yeah, expecting a different result.
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And it s because you have a subconscious driver that has been embedded in you.
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As an example, if you ve had an abusive parent and then they abuse you and then they hug you and tell you they love you, you get this whole fuck up between love and abuse.
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Yeah, you connect the two.
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It s horribly unfortunate.
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The abuse is obviously horrendous, but you re constantly being won back over, which is also wonderful.
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And so your expectation of love is also quite heightened.
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I also think it fucks you up on the other side of the scale, which is like I get this intense rebuilding and repair because some adult is in shame and winning you back over and spoiling you and hugging you and apologizing.
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And so
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Normal kids aren t getting that side of the spectrum either.
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So it s just very bipolar and extreme on both ends.
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So it s like when you re experiencing probably normal love, it s not even registering because that s not what you associate with it.
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But I think you re in a really unique position.
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Increasingly, we re starting
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to understand that it s not just your memories.
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There is circuitry formed from a childhood like this.
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There is adaptive properties that arise in the brain that you will then carry with you.
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You will have an exaggerated immune system for life.
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Tell us what happens physiologically.
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When you re constantly activating your sympathetic nervous system, of course, which is your flight, fight, or fear response, you re trying to decrease, and so you do all of these things.
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Your brain doesn t develop completely until you re in your mid-20s, and certainly when you re a very young child, 7, 8, 9, 10, I mean, this is a very formative period, and there s a whole body of knowledge about attachment theory, bonding, and that can go awry, and the circuitry can get...
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screwed up.
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Now, the wonderful thing is that you can change your brain.
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I mean, your brain has an incredible power to change.
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But if you never learn that reality or how to do that, then you re sort of locked in.
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And what happens to a lot of people is they keep looking for something outside of themselves to help them change them.
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And it doesn t work for most people, even for myself.
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I mean, my whole life, I ve sort of kept looking for a father figure and, you know, it never came.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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You want that senior person who says, you know, you re OK, you re doing a good job.
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Keep at it.
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I m proud of you.
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Or, hey, listen, here s some advice.
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Or let me introduce you to somebody.
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Because if you grow up in poverty and you don t have access to mentors or financial resources, even your parents, they can t help you.
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Well, you re stuck.
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And if you re an intelligent kid, it s torture.
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Because frankly, you look around at other children who have more traditional, and I hate to say that because
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Most of the people I read across have actually had fucked up childhood, you know, we keep looking at people.
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Yeah Yeah, it s like you learn molesting figures and you re like, oh shit.
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Yes, the majority of us you learn physical violence in the house It s the majority of us, you know, it s so funny The only person who I ve ever met who seemingly had really a perfect life was an Indian kid.
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I met a
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Really?
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And I met him on a plane and we were both heading to the Kentucky Derby.
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But it was so funny because his father was an engineer and immigrated to somewhere in Pennsylvania.
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He started there at like three, lived there his entire life, and he has like six or eight friends who he s grown up with.
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Nobody moved from the block.
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They all stayed connected.
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They were all friends.
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They still remain friends.
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And he s in his early 40s.
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He expects stability.
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Yes, what happens to people who don t have that environment?
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You re always wondering what the subtext is versus if you re with people who care about you, who you trust, you just naturally assume everybody s looking out for your best interests and cares about you.
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It s such a preferred way to go through life, assuming that.
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Cause it s not going to have an impact.
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Like I ve lied to myself over the years.
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Like, no, no, no.
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I m great.
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I m a bullshit detector.
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It doesn t yield any positive results.
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Life is what it is.
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You re going to get X amount of con artists in your life.
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You just either live expecting that or it happens occasionally.
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Well, the problem is people have a tendency to project those types of fears or anxiety or expect failure or expect people to take advantage of them, and that becomes reality for them.
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Yes.
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You ve led us directly to the theme of your book.
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Yeah, and therein lies the problem.
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Now, the great thing is there are Tibetan monks, and I m sure you ve heard of Wim Hof, have the ability to control what are typically subconscious or unconscious behaviors of your body.
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You can control your body temperature, you control your heart rate.
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And in fact, I ve been a meditator for a very long time.
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I mean, I can drop my heart rate 20, 25 beats just through thinking about it.
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So you can do it, but obviously it takes
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work.
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And in fact, there s a fellow named Mathieu Ricard, who s a Buddhist monk.
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Some people have called him the happiest man in the world because he s been a compassion meditator.
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But the thing is, under an MRI, you can sit there and say, I want you to be empathic.
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And there s certain areas of the brain that will light up, but you can sit there and say, I want you to be 25% empathic.
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No way.
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Or 75%.
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And you ll see the metabolism in those areas.
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Now, the problem is, if you say, I want to be empathic, or I want you to be empathic, you have to take on the emotional state of another, and in this context, suffering.
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So you can imagine, actually, that s very painful to do.
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because you re taking on that emotional state.
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But yeah, there are people who can actually do that.
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And if you also take it to the next level and say, I want to be compassionate, I care for others, I want the best for others, you will see the pleasure and reward centers in your brain activate.
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Okay.
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So along your journey, Lancaster couldn t have been, I mean, I don t want to be disparaging the Lancaster.
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I go there often.
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I ve been disparaging.
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But I can t imagine the environment improved all that much.
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I just can t imagine it was a bounty of support and wonder up there.
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Was dad present?
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Well, as you know, you can be physically present, but not mentally present.
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If you re an alcoholic and that s the driver.
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As an example, he would get a job, and then there would always be something that would occur.
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And then he would go on a binge.
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Then he d disappear for days to weeks.
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Then, of course, he would come back and be very apologetic and sorry and shamed.
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And then it would start.
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And of course, you can never predict when that s going to happen because of the chaos and uncertainty that activates your sympathetic nervous system, right?
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You re in a constant state of turmoil.
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People talk about post-traumatic stress disorder related to military veterans, but this happens to children.
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When children grow up in these types of environments of uncertainty and chaos, they re always anxious and stressed.
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Their muscles are always tightened because there is no ability to predict what s going to happen.
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And as a result, you have all the negative effects of engaging your sympathetic nervous system.
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And the thing is that when that system s engaged, this part of your brain called your executive control network, which is in your frontal areas, that gives you access to memories, experiences to make discerning or thoughtful decisions.
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If you re in a constant state of trauma and worry, that actually shuts down because you re only trying to survive.
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So you re finding the quickest solution.
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That s what s so insidious about it is it puts your thinking in an area of your brain that prevents you from using the tool you need most to get out of it.
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It s very detrimental.
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And of course, you have all the other secondary effects because it impairs your cardiac function and impairs your immune system.
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Insulin even.
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Yeah.
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And the expression of stress hormones like cortisol and the expression of inflammatory proteins, which are associated with chronic disease states.
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So it can be horrible on a long-term basis, because our sympathetic nervous system has been with us throughout our evolution as a species, but it was never meant to be chronically turned on.
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Yeah, you explain in the book, Life on the Serengeti, which some people will be familiar with.
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But yeah, what would be a normal percentage of activation in hunting and gathering life?
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Probably be less than once a day.
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But the thing is, it would happen, and then either you survive or you don t.
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Right.
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And then it goes away.
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It s not just lingering.
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No.
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Well, the problems of pre-civilized society were very acute.
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There was an animal.
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There wasn t like a bad credit score that s slowly sinking the entire ship over the course of years, right?
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It s like the threat is so elongated now.
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And that s what s so unfortunate because not only do you have, as an example, the need to support yourself, which in modern society requires a job, but you have to feed your family, you have to pay rent and also care for children.
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And this is what s so disturbing on some level is you see over the last few decades, and I would suggest probably since Reagan, where there is an attempt to remove a social safety net for people.
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And of course, it s horrible because if you don t have anything and there s nobody who can help you, there s no shelters, there s no food banks.
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Now, of course, there
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are, but there s not enough.
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And frankly, the problem is, too, we have a minimum wage, although it s recently increased in California.
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But can you imagine raising a family on $7.25 an hour?
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No, not possible.
1
SPEAKER_00
And that means both parents have to work.
1
SPEAKER_00
And who takes care of the children?
1
SPEAKER_00
They did a study.
1
SPEAKER_00
Average discretionary income in all comers is only $400.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s not talking about poor people.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s talking about the average amount.
1
SPEAKER_00
So you can see how the very nature of living in modern society is horrible.
1
SPEAKER_01
OK, so somehow you get yourself to UC Irvine.
1
SPEAKER_01
Did you see that as like, OK, that is going to be my way out of this entire experience?
1
SPEAKER_01
Did you even have lofty goals like that?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
I had a physician come to my class in fourth grade, and he so impressed me because he just exuded kindness.
1
SPEAKER_00
And when you ask him a question, he looked at you, he treated you like an equal and it made you feel good.
1
SPEAKER_00
And he was talking about how it s a privilege to be a doctor, to care for people.
1
SPEAKER_00
So that had a huge impact.
1
SPEAKER_00
Now, saying you re going to be a doctor and actually having it happen, two completely different things.
1
SPEAKER_00
So that was always in the back of my mind, I want to be a doctor.
1
SPEAKER_00
But how I ended up at Irvine is as follows.
1
SPEAKER_00
I had no clue that there was actually the timeframes associated with applying to college.
1
SPEAKER_00
The way I found out was I was at a science class and there was a girl next to me and she was filling out her application.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I looked at her and I said, Oh, what are you doing?
1
SPEAKER_00
She said, I m filling out college application.
1
SPEAKER_00
I go, Oh,
1
SPEAKER_01
It was complete news to me.
1
SPEAKER_00
I said, well, where are you going?
1
SPEAKER_00
And she said, I m going to UC Irvine.
1
SPEAKER_00
And she looked at me, she said, where are you going?
1
SPEAKER_00
I said, UC Irvine.
1
SPEAKER_00
And she said, well, you haven t filled out your application.
1
SPEAKER_00
I said, no, I didn t get it.
1
SPEAKER_00
And she said, well, I have an extra one.
1
SPEAKER_00
I applied to one college.
1
SPEAKER_00
Were you a good student in high school?
1
SPEAKER_00
I was a good student when I was
2
SPEAKER_00
a good student.
2
SPEAKER_00
If I m tied up with issues at home.
2
SPEAKER_00
Everything else suffers.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, because you don t have a place to study.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s always a TV on, there s smoke filling the room, there are fights.
2
SPEAKER_00
I had the potential to be a good student and I could be a good student.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s always interesting because you ll see kids from more affluent environment.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I m not complaining that somebody s affluent took me wrong.
2
SPEAKER_00
But, you know, they have their own room, quiet place to study.
2
SPEAKER_00
Parents can pay for tutors.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, they get the SAT prep thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes, yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
They re not worried about, do my shoes have holes in them?
2
SPEAKER_01
Is there electricity, all these basic things?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
After Irvine, you go to Tulane, and you do go to medical school at Tulane.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then this is a fun detour, and I want to know what motivated it.
2
SPEAKER_01
You end up doing your residency for neurosurgery at Walter Reed.
2
SPEAKER_01
How did that come about?
2
SPEAKER_01
And then how do you end up in the military?
2
SPEAKER_01
Really quick, if I m graduating from medical school, I m like, where are the Porsches?
2
SPEAKER_00
Get me to the Porsches as quick as possible.
2
SPEAKER_00
The problem is Tulane was a private school You can either take loans and end up about a hundred fifty thousand or two hundred thousand in debt then Yeah, or you could join the military and then you don t have any debt So you did it for the what we would have called the GI Bill of Rights
2
SPEAKER_00
They called it a health profession scholarship, but backtracking to Tulane, I had to leave college multiple times to deal with family issues.
2
SPEAKER_00
I had friends in college and nothing is worse than you tell a friend or even a loved one, you know, I have an aspiration to be a doctor.
2
SPEAKER_00
I go, you re never going to do that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Look at your grade point average.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s a joke.
2
SPEAKER_00
So when I applied to med school, my grade point average was 2.53.
2
SPEAKER_00
Now the average grade point average at that time was 3.79.
2
SPEAKER_00
2.5 doesn t sound med school-bound, if I m being honest.
2
SPEAKER_00
We used to have a pre-med committee, so you had to go before the pre-med committee and they would write a letter.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I go to the secretary and I say, I want an appointment with the pre-med committee, so I get my letter.
2
SPEAKER_00
And she looks at me and she says, I m not giving you an appointment.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I said, why?
2
SPEAKER_00
And she said, because it s a waste of everyone s time.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
I said, well, I appreciate what you re saying, but I m not leaving here until you give me that appointment.
2
SPEAKER_00
And she did.
2
SPEAKER_00
Now, you remember those photographs of Putin sitting at one end of a table and you have these people at the other end?
2
SPEAKER_00
So I walk into this room and there are three people at the end of the table and the guy in charge, he has my file and he takes it and he throws it on the table.
2
SPEAKER_00
And he says, say what you have to say so we can get this over with.
2
SPEAKER_00
How cruel to a young person, inexperienced.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I looked at the guy and I said, I m not going to allow you to objectify me to a great point.
2
SPEAKER_00
I proceeded to lecture him for 20 minutes and the two other people with him.
2
SPEAKER_00
And at the end of it, they were all crying because it s easy to objectify somebody because you don t have to deal with the emotional issues.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re separating yourself.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you force them to look at you as a human being, they can t look away.
2
SPEAKER_01
And by the way, if you hear someone s story, it becomes increasingly impossible to not see that they re a person.
2
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_00
As I was leaving that, the woman who refused to give me the book, she says, listen, I think this will really help you.
2
SPEAKER_00
And she gave me a brochure.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it was for a summer research and educational program at Tulane for socioeconomically disadvantaged students and minority students.
2
SPEAKER_00
And she looks at me, she said, you know, the deadline has passed, but I don t think that will have any impact for you.
2
SPEAKER_00
Uh-huh.
2
SPEAKER_00
So what happened is they ended up giving me the highest letter of recommendation and then I talked my way into the summer program and I applied to one medical school and that was Tulane and Actually, I didn t graduate from college initially from UC Irvine, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, it came a couple years later because they let me transfer some courses So I got in with the 2.53 and no degree.
2
SPEAKER_00
No degree Wow
2
SPEAKER_01
Wow, oh my gosh.
2
SPEAKER_01
You could have written that book, too.
2
SPEAKER_01
That could also have been your book.
2
SPEAKER_01
How to go to med school with a 2.5 and no degree.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, that only happens to one person.
2
SPEAKER_00
But none of us have the ability to judge someone s ability to accomplish something.
2
SPEAKER_00
So if you were to fast forward, Tulane is in New Orleans, and after Hurricane Katrina, New Orleans flooded.
2
SPEAKER_00
So the med school closed for a couple years.
2
SPEAKER_00
The students went to Houston, to Baylor, to continue.
2
SPEAKER_00
The dean actually resigned.
2
SPEAKER_00
Library was destroyed.
2
SPEAKER_00
So, if you fast forward, they were looking for a new dean because the guy resigned.
2
SPEAKER_00
They had a guy from Harvard who wanted to come, but he wanted an endowed chair.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I don t know if you know how endowed chairs work.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, what is that?
2
SPEAKER_00
In academic institutions, having an endowed chair means there s a donor who comes forward, puts in several million dollars, the chair is named after him, that money goes into an endowment, and that person is able to spend the revenue from that investment.
2
SPEAKER_00
for equipment, their lab, whatever it is.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I ended up rebuilding the library and endowing the dean s chair.
2
SPEAKER_00
So the dean to this day is the Doty professor, and I m on the board of governors.
2
SPEAKER_00
It was a great honor for me because I was also asked, because there s something called the White Coat Ceremony, where for the incoming medical students, they have a physician speak who exemplifies nominally the highest ideals of medicine.
2
SPEAKER_00
So they asked me to give that lecture.
2
SPEAKER_00
Again, none of us can predict someone s ability to have an impact.
2
SPEAKER_00
What happens is people create these limited beliefs about what s possible for them, and they re held prisoner by it.
2
SPEAKER_00
So how you escape that is really the key.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
We re going to fast forward a bit.
2
SPEAKER_01
I want to get to the next, what feels like the pivotal part of your own story, which is, yeah, you go to medical school, you train at Children s Hospital, you get pediatric
2
SPEAKER_01
certification, you become an inventor, you take a job at Stanford at some point.
2
SPEAKER_01
I feel like the really, for me, important part now is kind of the dot-com era and what happens to your life in that phase of now being an established voice in this world.
2
SPEAKER_01
You are a part of a startup, CyberKnife.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re doing a lot of things.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re realizing all of the goals that someone might have that goes to medical school.
2
SPEAKER_01
And at a certain point, this is very fortuitous.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s a lot of abundance.
2
SPEAKER_01
What is that ride like, that middle section of your life?
2
SPEAKER_00
Let me take a step back because we talked about the title of my first book, which was Into the Magic Shop, which tells my story from being a 12 year old.
2
SPEAKER_00
But it was walking into a magic shop, that s the title.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I met a woman there who was one of these people who had this radiant presence about her.
2
SPEAKER_00
She looked at you like she cared.
2
SPEAKER_00
She looked you in the eye.
2
SPEAKER_00
She was in no way demeaning to you because of your age or how you looked.
2
SPEAKER_00
It turned out she was the owner s mother.
2
SPEAKER_01
Can I say something really quick?
2
SPEAKER_01
Sure.
2
SPEAKER_01
What s so heartbreaking and so obvious already, all of your stories, all of these mile markers, someone took the time to look at you.
2
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yep.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s fucking heartbreaking.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that s all it takes.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s pretty simple.
2
SPEAKER_00
And the reality is everybody has the capability to do that if they just take the time.
2
SPEAKER_01
You can get stuck in your life tallying how much you ve received that.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I think at a certain age and in a certain evolution, you have to flip that to like, how many people am I looking at and giving that to?
2
SPEAKER_01
Because that one s actually far more fulfilling.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s where we ll get to.
2
SPEAKER_00
So what happened is this woman took the time.
2
SPEAKER_00
She said, I really like you.
2
SPEAKER_00
And again, she created what we call a sense of psychological safety where I had a calmness about me.
2
SPEAKER_00
I wasn t tense.
2
SPEAKER_00
I wasn t anxious.
2
SPEAKER_00
And she said, listen, I m here for another six weeks.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you show up every day, I ll teach you something.
2
SPEAKER_00
And she taught me a meditation practice that included a self-compassion practice and how to change your negative narrative and also to look through a different lens.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because when you beat yourself up all the time, you re hypercritical of everyone else.
2
SPEAKER_01
Let s really drill in on that.
2
SPEAKER_01
You can only extend as much compassion to others as you re extending to yourself.
2
SPEAKER_00
When you think of yourself badly or you do bad things, there s this transference towards others.
2
SPEAKER_00
And we see this with one specifically of our political candidates.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s funny you say that because I give this example all the time.
2
SPEAKER_00
And this relates to Viktor Frankl.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know if you ve read
2
SPEAKER_00
It just came up on Chris Pine.
2
SPEAKER_00
We just had an episode where this came up, how weird.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s called Man s Search for Meaning.
2
SPEAKER_00
But there s a statement in there that s very relative, and it s one I use as an example, is between stimulus and response, there is a pause, and within that pause lies your freedom.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s how do you extend the pause, because we re so reactive.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I give this example so often about driving.
2
SPEAKER_00
Somebody cuts you off, you assume they re rude, they re selfish.
2
SPEAKER_00
But if you change the narrative to say, this is a husband, they re in the car, the wife s nine months pregnant, her water s broke, he s getting her to the hospital, you go, fuck.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes, let me help you.
2
SPEAKER_00
But it shows you how in a microsecond you can change and have a completely different response.
2
SPEAKER_00
So the key is, how do you train yourself not to have that reactive response?
2
SPEAKER_00
And I do pretty good with that.
2
SPEAKER_00
I am certainly not perfect.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ll add a piece to it that was a stumbling block for me, which is, I m also caught in a loop of, I won t be duped, I won t be taken advantage of, I won t be bullied, I won t be subjugated, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
This gets back to your Kentucky.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
So in that moment where I m deciding what to do, the way I think I m defending myself would be to not allow this, to tell this guy to get out of the car.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m going to knock you the fuck out.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re never going to do that.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m going to teach you a lesson.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m going to protect everyone else from the same behavior.
2
SPEAKER_01
It never occurs to me, or in the past never occurred to me, that the very greatest thing I could do for myself is give that benefit of the doubt because now I don t have a cortisol dump.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m not in adrenaline.
2
SPEAKER_01
Forget that guy.
2
SPEAKER_01
My victory is a huge loss for me.
2
SPEAKER_00
The huge loss for you is actually your victory in the sense that you re not activating yourself.
2
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_01
I had to redefine what it means to be conquered.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, it s not even being conquered.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s acceptance and it s not having a reaction to that acceptance because it s not failure.
2
SPEAKER_00
Frankly, it s irrelevant.
2
SPEAKER_00
I have had some people
3
SPEAKER_00
like all of us, who ve done horrible things.
3
SPEAKER_00
In fact, I just went through a very painful situation with an individual who literally was trying to destroy my professional career out of jealousy.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was the chief of service and had reprimanded him multiple times.
3
SPEAKER_00
So he basically plotted how to destroy
3
SPEAKER_00
my career.
3
SPEAKER_00
It was very painful and it caused a lot of stress for me even though I meditate and try to control that.
3
SPEAKER_00
But you know, especially when you ve built a career, let s say in medicine, where you re highly respected and then near the end of your career somebody s trying to disparage you for complete bullshit.
3
SPEAKER_00
It ultimately got completely resolved.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I m not angry at him.
3
SPEAKER_00
I feel sorry for him and I refuse to go down that path now, obviously I had to defend myself But this is the challenge for all of us because they re always going to be these ups and downs So the key is how do you have?
3
SPEAKER_00
Equanimity or this evenness of temperament as you go through life because they re always going to be the ups and downs Yeah, yeah the woman in the magic shop.
3
SPEAKER_01
Why was she so well versed in all of this?
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, that s a good question.
3
SPEAKER_00
Remember I was 12, so I wasn t an investigative reporter.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah
3
SPEAKER_00
She was in her 50s.
3
SPEAKER_00
I have to assume that she had somehow ended up in Haight-Ashbury during the 60s and had some insights into meditation.
3
SPEAKER_00
Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.
3
SPEAKER_01
You had a toolkit already.
3
SPEAKER_01
You were successful in exploiting it, but you were focused on a very specific thing, which is the material.
3
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_00
Because again, if you come from poverty and you buy into the Western capitalist narrative, it s wealth, power, position, and then you equate that with success and happiness.
3
SPEAKER_00
I did get everything that was on my list.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, I had the cars, I had the house, I was flying around in private jets.
3
SPEAKER_00
Where was the private island?
3
SPEAKER_00
It was in New Zealand.
3
SPEAKER_00
It was beautiful.
3
SPEAKER_00
It was between North and South Island, and it was 6,500 acres.
3
SPEAKER_00
Can you imagine?
3
SPEAKER_00
Wait, you had your own private island?
3
SPEAKER_00
Well, I was buying it when everything collapsed, but yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
He had a mansion overlooking Newport Bay.
3
SPEAKER_01
He had every cool car.
3
SPEAKER_01
Wait, and this is just because of medicine?
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, he was a part of this company Cyberknife.
3
SPEAKER_01
He was an angel investor.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was the dot-com era.
3
SPEAKER_01
Look, he has access to all of the people creating all of the things we re going to use by virtue of where you re at.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so I ended up being very successful.
3
SPEAKER_00
So here s the problem, of course, I did get everything.
3
SPEAKER_00
In fact, on my list was a Rolex watch, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
So, you know, and a Porsche, this mansion, and being a millionaire, et cetera, et cetera.
3
SPEAKER_00
As a neurosurgeon, we re among the highest paid physicians, so we make more than 99% of people.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I was also a successful entrepreneur and investor.
3
SPEAKER_00
When the dot-com thing happened, I lost, when the crash came, almost $80 million in six weeks.
3
SPEAKER_00
Six weeks?
3
SPEAKER_00
Six weeks, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh my.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay, hold on, don t blow through this at all.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God.
3
SPEAKER_01
I regularly play out what that feels like.
3
SPEAKER_01
And you have lived through it.
3
SPEAKER_01
I have a very, very unhealthy relationship with money.
3
SPEAKER_01
It represents safety in a way that it actually can t make you safe.
3
SPEAKER_01
I fetishized it.
3
SPEAKER_01
I coveted it.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was going to result in all of my problems being solved.
3
SPEAKER_01
I have such fear of scarcity.
3
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t matter how much I get.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m terrified.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so basically you lived through my greatest nightmare.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I looked at it actually differently at the end of the day.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I had borrowed $15 million because when you had that much in stock in a public company, even though you were restricted from selling it... You could borrow against it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I borrowed $15 million and I bought this penthouse and all the various and sundry cars and things.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was now $3 million in the hole after selling everything.
3
SPEAKER_00
And actually, I had no retirement.
3
SPEAKER_00
What happens is two people become your best friends.
3
SPEAKER_00
One is your banker.
3
SPEAKER_01
What age were you when this happened?
3
SPEAKER_00
I was 42, 43.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, wow.
3
SPEAKER_00
So he called me and basically said, when are you paying us back?
3
SPEAKER_00
And then I had to deal with my lawyer because I had all these different things going on.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I had made some commitments to charity, but they were really primarily for tax things.
3
SPEAKER_00
It wasn t because I was like a great guy.
3
SPEAKER_00
I d still like to think I m a pretty good guy, but it was for tax planning.
3
SPEAKER_00
So he said, look, Jim, it turns out we did not file the final paperwork.
3
SPEAKER_00
You don t have to give any of that stock away.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was talking to a company, AccuAid, that hadn t gone public.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I went through this period of reflection.
3
SPEAKER_00
What did I miss here in terms of the lessons that Ruth had taught me?
3
SPEAKER_00
And the reason was, every action I was doing was for external affirmation.
3
SPEAKER_00
You d climb a mountain and then you d wait for people to go, hey, you re a great guy, with the hopes that that fills the emptiness and the shame and insecurity you have.
3
SPEAKER_00
To be honest with you, at the height of all of this, I had all these friends going, God, Jim, you re living the life, man.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was more miserable than I had ever been in my entire life.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so when I lost everything, though, I said, what the fuck happened here?
3
SPEAKER_00
And what I realized was every action I was doing was about me.
3
SPEAKER_00
I want this.
3
SPEAKER_00
And this is the classic woo woo pseudoscience narrative of the secret.
3
SPEAKER_00
The universe should give you whatever you want and you deserve it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And if you want to be a millionaire, that s great.
3
SPEAKER_00
The problem is that is a dead end to unhappiness, period.
3
SPEAKER_00
When it s all about you, it has a huge negative effect on your physiology and your brain function.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it s not who we really are.
3
SPEAKER_00
Who we really are are the people who focus on being of service to others.
3
SPEAKER_00
And after that period of reflection, I told the attorney, I said, go ahead and give it all away.
3
SPEAKER_00
So that ended up being $30 billion.
3
SPEAKER_00
29 million bucks and yeah donation, but it was an incredible gift to me because what it did was you re talking about scarcity I was no longer worried about being poor because what was driving me was the insecurity of not having anything and It liberated me.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was no longer attached to that and
3
SPEAKER_00
Now, I don t want to imply that losing all that money, I was suddenly on the street.
3
SPEAKER_00
In fact, Oprah was going to do a story because there was an article in the Wall Street Journal.
3
SPEAKER_00
We saw you lost all this money.
3
SPEAKER_00
You gave all this money away.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, are you living in your car?
3
SPEAKER_00
I said, look, I m a neurosurgeon.
3
SPEAKER_00
My worst day is I m doing fine.
3
SPEAKER_00
But what I tell people is I went from rags to riches and back to rags, essentially.
3
SPEAKER_00
But the greatest gift I got and the thing that actually gave me a different type of riches was I ended up founding the Center at Stanford, which studies compassion and altruism.
3
SPEAKER_00
The Dalai Lama ended up being the founding benefactor.
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He and I became friends.
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I became chairman of the Dalai Lama Foundation.
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Then this led to me meeting Desmond Tutu, Thich Nhat Hanh, Eckhart Tolle, Byron Katie, Alma the Hugging Saint, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Saad Guru.
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Being able to hang out and be friends with some of the leading spiritual leaders in the world and to see how they look at the world.
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which is through the lens of caring, compassion, love, non-judgment, it was an incredible gift to me.
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And it made me look through the lens of how can I be of service?
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And if you look through the lens of how can I be of service, it changes several things.
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One, there s a difference between often, as we re talking about, what we think we want or need, and typically, like I said, chasing what society defines as success, but also when you look through that lens,
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you change what you realize is important.
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So you go from what we call hedonic happiness, which is the things, like Porsche s, and of course that s shallow and transient, if you want to call that happiness.
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If you look through the lens of compassion and being of service,
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That shifts things completely.
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It is deep, it is meaning, it is long-lasting, and it gives you purpose.
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And that s what we re designed to do, because that s how we evolved as a species.
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Our offspring need to be cared for.
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We have an imperative that makes us care.
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And when we care, this results in the release of certain neurotransmitters, such as oxytocin and others, which are the bonding or the love hormone.
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When you re of service to others, it stops you ruminating about yourself and the issues you have.
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And so all of these things are very powerful.
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And I think that s the fundamental message in this new book.
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Yes.
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So the new book is Mind Magic, How the Neuroscience of Manifestation Can Change Your Life.
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So let s define manifestation, and then we re going to link it to some physiological things, and we re going to link it to some science, which I think will be a great relief to skeptics and cynics like myself.
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I can t believe that of you.
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I m not a cynic, but I m a skeptic.
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How would we define manifestation?
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It s the ability to embed an intention such that it has the greatest likelihood to occur.
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And I was curious because a concept we re very fond of on this show and a lot of our guests are and people are familiar with is we talk a lot about our story.
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the power of our story and who we are and what s happening in the world we re in.
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And then what that invites in, of course, is confirmation bias, right?
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So if my story is I always get taken advantage of, I am only scanning for moments where people are trying to take advantage of me and I m excluding all of the contrary data that would suggest, no, a lot of people are not trying to take advantage of me.
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They re trying to help me.
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And so I think of our story is a version of manifestation and I m always policing myself on what story I m telling because the story I tell is the one that ll come true because I will not see any contrary information and I will only see proof of my story.
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How are those things related or how do they differ?
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They re related in the sense of essentially what you re doing is you are embedding your confirmation bias into your brain and then it seeks
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out ways to confirm what you wanted to confirm.
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Now, of course, if you don t have self-awareness and insight, that can be very pathologic.
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And you may get confirmation of you being a jerk and thinking everybody s out to get you, but that s not going to make you happy in any way.
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And again, it gets back to the negative narrative you have about yourself, because you re basically saying everybody s out to screw me, which, of course, activates your sympathetic nervous system because you re always looking around.
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And as a result, yes, you can have that intention manifest as a truth because the brain has no ability to determine truth from non-truth, only what you believe.
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So it happens.
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The problem is for many people who it s all about me, what I want, it s the same type of thing because people who are in that mindset, they re insecure, they have shame, they re afraid, and they re trying to bolster themselves.
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So by having things,
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The problem is that when that s your mind frame, that actually has a negative effect on those parts of the brain which are associated with actually manifesting, versus if you re looking at it through the lens of compassion, caring for others, that is when you shift from the sympathetic nervous system to the parasympathetic nervous system.
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That is when you are stimulating your reward and pleasure centers, and it s when your physiology is working at its best, and that includes brain physiology.
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This is your rest and digest state.
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Correct.
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Getting back to the brain though, so there are basically four networks or cognitive brain networks that interact.
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And if you re stressed, one of the most important, which is your executive control function, and we talked about this in relation to the guy who cut you off.
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Yeah.
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it gets shut down and it decreases your options.
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But that is the CEO that actually makes the action of responding to your attention happen.
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So then that impairs it.
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And that s not to say you can t be a jerk or selfish and manifest something.
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It s just not the best way to do it.
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And it s not healthy for you.
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Those areas of the brain are what we call our default mode network.
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And that s activated when we are daydreaming or mind-wandering.
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It s self-referential, who you are, painting the picture of how you define yourself.
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But that s also where you have dreams and aspirations.
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So you have to then embed that there.
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You have to pick who you want to be.
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Yeah.
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But then the next question is, well, how do you get there?
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So you have to have the ability to embed, or what we call value tag, that intention so that it gets into your subconscious.
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That then affects what we call your salience network and your attention network.
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And what happens then is that once you ve made it salient, then it puts your subconscious in the position of like a bloodhound trying to find situations that actually will help you manifest.
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But it also narrows what you re focused on, your attention.
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So once your attention is focused on that intention, then the bloodhound goes to work.
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And once it then goes to work, then that allows the CEO to make it happen.
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Here is an example for you.
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I m sure you ve been to a party and it s noisy.
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If somebody says your name though, you immediately turn.
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Well, why is that?
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Because who you are, your name is one of the most deeply embedded things within you.
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So you turn to it.
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Well, if you embed your intention correctly, what happens is, I ll give you a recent example.
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There s a project I m working on.
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You know, it s not commonly talked about.
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And I was at a coffee shop, completely noise.
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You can hardly hear anything.
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Yet I heard two people talking about exactly what I was trying to do.
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Well, I would never have paid attention to that if it had not been tagged and that led to me going over and reducing myself and having a conversation and now we re working together that s bonkers the Subconscious as I understand it.
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It s like taking in the enormous block of stimuli that s all around and then it s filtering and deciding what s gonna make it into your consciousness and
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Yes, and I would say all of us are manifesting all the time.
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The reality is, though, most of us do it inefficiently and unintentionally because today s going to be a great day, you know, this is going to happen.
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Well, that s in a way manifesting versus doing it in a very systematic way that embeds that intention.
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And it has to be done where there s repetition because what fires together wires together.
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So through repetition, you create and strengthen neural pathways.
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And this is why this idea of manifestation, which is in popular culture and wrapped in pseudoscience and woo-woo, there are certain techniques that have been learned experientially over time.
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And those are, as an example, writing it down, reading it silently, reading it aloud, visualizing it.
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And those are the things that strengthen those pathways, but you have to do the work.
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When I was a kid, I literally made this list of 10 things, and I would go through that exercise at least 10, 20, 30 times a day, every day.
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And so that s the way to do it.
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But again, if they re all about you, actually it may happen, but it s not in your best interest to happen.
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And if you want it to maximally happen, you have to activate, as an example, the executive control network, so it does have the ability to act versus being impaired by your own stress and anxiety.
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What have we been told about manifestation that s wrong?
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The popular narrative is it s about you.
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The secret, there s a classic example.
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It s you ask for a million dollars, you should get a million dollars.
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You throw it out into the universe and you have this thing called the law of attraction.
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So if you put positivity out there, you re going to get what you want.
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The challenge with that is it oftentimes, then if you don t get it, it says, well, you did something wrong.
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You re a loser.
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You can t manifest.
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And that s not the case at all.
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There is nobody out in the universe who cares about you.
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In fact, Jon Hamm was on your show.
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He and I were talking about this, and he responded to the first sentence of my book, which is, the universe doesn t give a fuck about you.
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And he said, well, at best, it s indifferent.
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And it s true.
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There is no magic person or father figure that s going to save you.
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And this is where we give our agency away.
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Because so often we re waiting for somebody to say it s okay or you can do it.
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That s not a horrible thing when you get encouragement from somebody.
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But if everything in your belief system is such that you have to have that, then you re giving your own internal power away.
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And you have so much power that you don t appreciate.
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And we talked about compassion and this idea of self-compassion.
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We have what s called negativity bias in the sense that when we were on the Savannah in Africa or the Serengeti, we were always on the lookout for negative events because they put us at risk.
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And this is why we also in the modern world, we don t see good news channels and we have the same bias that gets into our head about negative statements about us.
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And so when we repeat, I can t, it is not possible, I am not worthy, that becomes truth.
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And so then you ve created a limited belief system.
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And this is what I used to do.
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And what I would say is I was building my own prison brick by brick and the walls got higher and they got darker.
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And it was hard to even think about escaping because once they get so high and it s so narrow and dark in there, you don t know what to do.
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But when you realize that you have immense power within yourself, then things can change.
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Now, the challenge there is, and I m sure you ve probably met people like this, there s nothing worse than a reformed reformer.
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You know, it s like the guy, I m morbidly obese.
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Now I run 20 miles every day.
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And if you don t do it, you re a loser.
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Nobody s a loser.
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All of us have different experiences.
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We re in no place to judge people because what happens is you re picking a narrow slot that has worked for you.
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And now you feel you re able to look down at others and tell people they re losers.
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Nobody s a loser.
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Nobody wants to be poor.
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Nobody wants to be obese.
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Everybody is worthy.
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Everybody has dignity.
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And when you interact with people in that way,
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It s much more effective than listening to somebody tell you, well, if you don t do this, man, and it s really unfortunate.
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And there s a well-worn pattern among humans is we really are prone to proselytize.
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And I really do want to look at that through the anthropological lens.
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Like, what is it about the moment you ve done something, almost the very next thought is proselytizing about it.
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And I wanna know what it s served.
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It could be nice.
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Yeah, there is some, like, I m gonna pass on a cultural tool that s gonna help survival.
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It probably was beneficial.
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I m like, oh my god, you guys, I just dipped my arrow in this frog s back and I barely grazed the antelope and it s dead.
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I learned how to do this, you can do it too.
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Yes, it s been co-opted somehow.
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But this is our ego at work, right?
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And this is actually a detriment to so many of us.
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And we see it within religion.
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Well, I m a Christian and you re not.
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Obviously, you re praying to the wrong God.
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Now, it s interesting because the reality is, and I don t know if you know Karen Armstrong, she won the TED Prize in 08.
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No.
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She s a former nun.
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She s written a number of books about religion.
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And she s a great writer.
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But she also started something called the Charter for Compassion.
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She met with 19 spiritual and religious leaders, and they all agreed that at the core of every religion is compassion and the golden rule.
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And what has happened is from when we lived as a nuclear family, then we lived in tribes, we knew from experience that being kind, compassionate actually increases your ability to survive.
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We knew that, but then we started wrapping it around a dogma related to our culture.
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And that s how religions, or some people could argue how religions, were created.
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But again, unfortunately, the natural thing about humans, and it s actually related to this tribal instinct, is to say, my tribe is better than your tribe, and we re against you.
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And it leads to all sorts of problems in life, because we are no longer in a tribal society in the sense that it is a global community.
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And when we try to isolate ourselves, it s to the detriment of us.
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And of course, obviously, the detriment to so many people in the world.
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Yeah, the trajectory is getting scarier.
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and scarier.
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Well, yeah, we re seeing it.
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Okay, so manifesting is broken up into six parts and you ve already touched on a few of them.
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What you give your attention to is very valuable.
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I want to go through some of them.
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How did desires play into a manifesting plan?
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We talked about being self-oriented.
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You have to understand what are the desires that are actually beneficial for you and ultimately beneficial for others, because that s how you activate these cognitive brain networks to work their best.
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So you have to be careful what you re asking for.
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I have had these discussions where somebody will say to me, so are you telling me that to manifest, you have to live as a pauper, be poor, and forsake everything, and help everybody?
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And that s not what I m saying at all.
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The difference is that, yes, I live in a very nice house.
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Yes, I m very blessed and I have access to things that I m thankful for.
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I have no attachment to them.
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If they are all gone tomorrow, I will be just fine.
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This is the difference because if you look at it from the other perspective, people s identities are wrapped up in those things, and if they lose them, they re terrified.
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Well, that in and of itself is worthy of evaluating why you would pick certain things.
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Like anything that could be taken from you in two seconds, you would think, oh, maybe not the best thing to hang my identity on.
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It just makes it very fragile.
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Well, but that s the life of so many people in Western society.
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But I lost everything.
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I was liberated.
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If everything ends tomorrow, I cannot complain about anything.
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We are very fortunate to even be sitting here.
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This all has to do about mindset, because that sets the tone of your life.
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How do you see the world?
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How do you see your place in the world?
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What is your job in the world?
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And when you can connect with that and feel this energy that you are of service to people and you re trying to model yourself on, how can I be the best person?
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We talk about how one person can change somebody s life.
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If you look at the lens like that, you cannot not be happy.
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People come up and go, how are you doing today?
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I say, if I wake up in the morning, I m the happiest person in the world.
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Yeah.
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There is an order, though, and I think the order is really relevant because I m sure there s a lot of people that are going like, yeah, yeah, I kind of relate.
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I got the job I wanted.
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We bought the house.
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We got the boat.
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Check, check, check.
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And I m kind of feeling directionless, purposeless, empty.
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I think it s a pervasive feeling.
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I would love for you to walk us through Enola s story as kind of an ordering of events when you think about how you might approach this.
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This is an interesting young lady.
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She s from Sri Lanka.
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She is from an immigrant family.
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They were probably middle class or maybe above middle class.
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The dad was a microbiologist, so he was fine.
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Yeah.
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Well, but then they moved here and he, I think, drove a cab and she worked as a care worker, but very low pay.
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So their circumstances were essentially poverty.
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And they looked to the daughter as sort of the savior.
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She s going to be the successful one.
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She s going to make things happen.
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Expressively said to her, you have got to do this.
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Yes.
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And so what happens there is now it s not her wish.
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She is trying to live up to her parents  wish to become a doctor.
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And these cultures are basically two jobs.
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You either become a doctor or you become an engineer.
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She was attached to that.
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So she was doing an action, which was to become a doctor, but it was not through the mindset of how can I be of service to help people?
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It s I have to do this to make my parents happy and live up to their expectation.
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And justify all this
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suffering.
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In an interesting way, it s the same parallel to a gambling addict who the lie is, I just have to get to zero.
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So it s like, I just got to neutralize all this suffering.
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Or guilt.
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It s a lot of guilt.
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They gave up everything.
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Yeah.
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And so she was suffering.
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But when you suffer, that creates anxiety, it creates pain, it creates fear.
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And then that s the worst thing you need when you have to take exams or perform.
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And unfortunately, she did not perform and she applied to med school three times.
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Now, the interesting thing about my first book is that as a result, I get emails from people like this very frequently.
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And for whatever reason, what she wrote me struck me because she said, I read your book.
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It was very powerful to me.
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Can you help me?
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And we ended up having conversations on the phone and talking about how she needs to change how she sees the world.
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not anxiety about living up to her parents  expectations.
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Do you want to be a doctor?
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And if you want to be a doctor, that means you re being of service to people, you re caring about people, and that is the most important thing.
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And when you focus on that and do these different types of meditative practices, which is fundamentally a significant part of the lessons we re talking about, then it will decrease your anxiety, it will decrease your fear.
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Well, so you had health problems as a result
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Living in the arousal state, the flight or fight, her body was attacking itself.
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She couldn t possibly have studied for the MCAT or done anything.
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I think it s an important step one for people who are imagining approaching this.
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You need to get into the parasympathetic system.
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That s step one.
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But also exactly what you said.
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What is the point?
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I think this is a lot of people in college and was sort of me in a lot of classes in college.
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I just want to get the A and be done with it.
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But if you think I want to learn this, you re going to look at it in such a different way.
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It s not about passing the test.
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It s about actually understanding something.
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We ve talked about this difference between Monica and I, which is I was out here to be a comedian, but I was going to UCLA so my mom would pay my rent.
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I wasn t getting a job.
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I literally was like, what s interesting?
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Oh, cool.
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Anthropology is weird.
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I have retained almost everything I learned there because I was there to learn.
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My son goes to a very, very competitive public school in Silicon Valley.
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Both of my boys did.
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But the thing is that these kids are, I don t know if brainwashed is the right word, they re told that their value is them performing.
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You have to get an A, and it becomes a zero-sum game.
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It s I have to win, therefore somebody has to lose.
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The problem is that you re not accepting a child for who they are.
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You re translated into your child s mind that their value is in getting an A.
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And it s a very horrible, pathologic, stressful thing, because if you don t get that A, then you re worthless.
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And at my son s school, there are multiple suicides.
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Yeah, it s a big thing.
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Yeah, because of this exact same thing.
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It s not only immigrant parents, it s the subset of parents who also have gone to Harvard and Yale or Stanford.
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You re the elite.
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Yes, and they inculcate that you have to perform because you re from us.
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We re a family that performs.
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Now, there s some people who are up to the challenge, but it also leads to an immense amount of stress.
5
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The other thing is, if you look at what s happened in a number of elite colleges, and maybe not so elite, is cheating.
5
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It s not about integrity and doing the right thing.
5
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It s about how do I get an A and what do I have to do to get the A?
5
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And if it s you ll do anything, then cheating is just another part.
5
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And the horrible thing about that is it s not like, oh, well, I just cheated on this test in middle school.
5
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It s I cheated on a test in middle school.
5
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I figured out what I had to do to take advantage of the situation in high school.
5
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Oh, now I m applying for a job.
5
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How can I manipulate that situation or cheat if necessary?
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And it goes on and on.
5
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This doesn t go away when you create these types of habits or ways to see the world.
5
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And when you re doing it that way, of course, it s a very selfish, narcissistic behavior.
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And you are lying to yourself the whole ride.
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You re like, I m going to cheat in high school to get into college.
5
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And then we re there.
5
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That was the thing.
5
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But then you re there and you find out, oh, no, there s a new objective, which is to go to grad school.
5
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OK, then I m going to cheat just to get to there.
5
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It just never ends.
5
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And then you re in your job and there s performance ratings and you re going to manipulate that system.
5
SPEAKER_01
Now, the interesting thing is we all lie.
5
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All of us lie to ourselves.
5
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It s the foundation of intelligence, deception.
5
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Well, yeah.
5
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Having some degree of self-awareness, you have to be cognizant of the fact that you re painting a picture of how you want to be perceived, but how you think you are.
5
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But I can t tell you the number of situations where I ve met extraordinarily wealthy people who have a perception of how great they are.
5
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One is they ll sit there and go, well, I m a philanthropist.
5
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Well, you re worth several billion dollars and you gave $5,000.
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Or that the nature of their success had to do, and I can t tell you the number of people I ve met, and I d love your opinion, where they sit there and say, I made it on my own.
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Nobody helped me, except my father had this high position and he got me this internship.
5
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And through that, I got this.
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So having that degree of self-awareness and humility to understand, even in my own circumstance, even though I had a challenging background, I was white.
5
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Oh yeah, and tall.
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And good-looking.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And you ve already, in your story, you ve credited a bunch of people having helped you.
5
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I feel like you, of all people, could say, I did it on my own.
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And even you are like, no, I didn t.
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That is looking at this through a lens of truth, hopefully.
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None of us has gotten anywhere without somebody helping us.
5
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Exactly.
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And if you don t acknowledge that, then you re lying to yourself.
5
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We all need other people.
5
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Now, this is an interesting reality, though.
5
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The higher you go up on the socioeconomic scale, the interesting thing is these people lose their empathy.
5
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And the reason they lose their empathy is for most of us in society, we need to rely on other people to help us.
5
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Whatever that is.
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If you re at this high level, everybody is replaceable.
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Well, they didn t do what I asked them to do.
5
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You re out of here.
5
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There s a subset of people who want to be around power and they ll do anything, but the people in power, they will replace you in a heartbeat if you don t go along with them.
5
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And this is a very unfortunate thing because again, if they look through the lens of empathy, compassion, you would do all these things because I don t know what you do with a billion dollars or 5 billion or 10 or a hundred billion.
5
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Yet there s so many areas in the world, or even in the United States, where even a fraction of that amount of money could have a huge, huge impact.
6
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Impact on another human beings life.
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That should be the biggest thing on your mind And this isn t saying you don t have your car or your garage full of cars you live in the mansion But comparative to their wealth that s like a minuscule part.
6
SPEAKER_00
Did you watch the Phil Stutz documentary by chance?
6
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Yeah, is that
6
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Seth Rogen?
6
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
6
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No.
6
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No, Jonah.
6
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Jonah, yes, yes, yeah, yeah.
6
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It s very common.
6
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I even went along with it for a second.
6
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Yeah, yeah.
6
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I get completely, and I have to keep remembering in my mind the two of them, and I don t know why I get confused.
6
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But do you remember, and he s drawing all these fun pictures, and one of them is that web of interconnected dependence on one another.
6
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And that was a real moment for me because I didn t feel like I was getting the support I wanted.
6
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My thought was, well, I will transcend needing anyone.
6
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That ll be the solution as I will be this monolith that creates and provides and does all the stuff, not recognizing what you re robbing yourself of the human experience and the joy of the interconnected and interdependence.
6
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And I had to really go, oh, wow, we strive to rely on other people.
6
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That s counterintuitive to my selfish reptilian brain.
6
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I think you re right, it s not unnatural to want to be an obelisk who stands there and is impenetrable.
6
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The problem is, just as you said, first of all, it s not possible, but second of all, it robs you.
6
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And this is also the nature of attachment.
6
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I mean, the greatest cause of suffering is attachment and craving.
6
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And the problem is there s a subset of people
6
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who are so focused on, let s say, becoming the monolith, that they forget that getting there, actually, that is where all the action happens.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s where the life experience is.
6
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That s where you get wisdom.
6
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That s where you get joy.
6
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Focus solely on that goal.
6
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and you get to the goal, there s nobody there with you.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s lonely and it has zero value.
6
SPEAKER_01
And yet we have so many people in business, they ll go, you know, I ve worked 30 years to get here and I ve had three divorces.
6
SPEAKER_01
My kids hate me.
6
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And yet I live in this 20,000 square foot home.
6
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I have all these cars.
6
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Given myself diabetes and a lopsided heart.
6
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Yes.
6
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Well, and you probably engage in a lot of very negative behaviors.
6
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To soothe.
6
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Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.
6
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What is the alphabet of the heart and how does it help guide us?
6
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Actually, I talk about that in the first book.
6
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I was talking about getting into Tulane and giving this talk to the incoming medical students, which is the white coat ceremony.
6
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They give you a white coat, you take the oath of Hippocrates the weekend before, and then there s a inspirational speaker.
6
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And I was that speaker.
6
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It was an extraordinary honor to be asked to do that.
6
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You know, in medical school, you have to learn all these mnemonics to remember stuff.
6
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So I was saying, can I create a mnemonic that can inspire these students not only to be good doctors, but good human beings, that is something easy to remember and that relates to my own personal journey?
6
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So I came up with this alphabet of the heart, and it s a letter C through L. And actually, this is a practice I do as part of my meditative practice, which I go through.
6
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So it s C, compassion for self and others.
6
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D, recognizing the dignity of every person.
6
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E, practicing equanimity or evenness of temperament.
6
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Elaborate on that one.
6
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We were talking about this reactivity as an example in the context of somebody cutting you off, right?
6
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If you re able to maintain an evenness of temperament regardless of the circumstances, as an example, let s say you have an attachment to a goal and you don t get that goal, people can be devastated.
6
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But if you re able to let go of that and understand
6
SPEAKER_00
I want to know who gets this ringtone, because I ve heard a couple different ringtones, and this one s specific.
6
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It s my spousal unit.
6
SPEAKER_00
There you go.
6
SPEAKER_00
I had a hunch this one was more relevant than the others.
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I didn t put an airplane on it.
6
SPEAKER_01
My wife is going to go, why didn t you answer the phone?
6
SPEAKER_00
You started that interview an hour and 35 minutes ago.
6
SPEAKER_00
There s no way you re still in there.
6
SPEAKER_00
What the fuck are you doing in there?
6
SPEAKER_00
Has it turned into an orgy?
6
SPEAKER_00
Well, she d probably believe that.
6
SPEAKER_00
Well, when you get rid of the cream top sweatshirt, for sure.
6
SPEAKER_01
You guys are sick bastards.
6
SPEAKER_01
Anyway.
6
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Where were we at?
6
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Equanimity.
6
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Oh, equanimity.
6
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So, the thing is that when you re attached to a goal and you don t attain it, then that causes suffering and unhappiness.
6
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Well, if you understand that you should not have attachment to that, you should enjoy the experience, you should enjoy trying, but the world doesn t end if you don t get that.
6
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But people always want to live in that space of, oh, I accomplished this, I m getting all these accolades, it makes me feel good.
6
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Well, we cannot always be in that state.
6
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You have to accept that reality.
6
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The other side of the coin is
6
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just as accomplishment is transitory, or these goals oftentimes, so is disappointment.
6
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We re going to have ups and downs in our lives, and nobody wants to be unhappy or have bad things happen to them.
6
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That is the nature of life.
6
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But if you really closely examine it, like the other side, accomplishing things, you can t always live there.
6
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It s transitory.
6
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That is the same way with downtimes.
6
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Unfortunately, people will translate that
6
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the experience they re having is lasting forever, which then leads, of course, to rumination, depression, and sometimes suicide.
6
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But if you look at it from the perspective of it being transitory, you don t get lost there either.
6
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You have this evenness of temperament, understanding and appreciating each part, because while the accomplishing part or achieving
6
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is wonderful, it doesn t really often give you the sense of purpose or meaning necessarily, especially if it s a focused, I want type of thing.
6
SPEAKER_01
Versus the down times though, if you examine that, where do you learn your greatest wisdom?
6
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Where do you see how resilient you are?
6
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Where do you see you have the powers within?
6
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And this is when oftentimes you survive a difficult challenge.
6
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And that s what gives most people an immense amount of knowledge, insight.
6
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So you don t want that not to happen.
6
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You don t want it to last forever though.
6
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So having the sense of
6
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evenness of temperament, enjoying the good times but not getting lost in them, and the same with the down times.
6
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It s interesting.
6
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I have the modern art boot at the end of my pool.
6
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It doesn t have a head.
6
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It s modern.
6
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Yeah, very.
6
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Too modern.
6
SPEAKER_01
It looks nice.
6
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But it s also holding a persimmon.
6
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The purpose of that is to remind me of two things.
6
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One is the tendency for us all to get lost in our head.
6
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So by it not having a head, it sort of forces me to be in my heart.
6
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But the other part is to recognize that a persimmon, it s like pain and suffering.
6
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It starts out hard and bitter, but if you re patient,
6
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over time, it becomes soft and sweet.
6
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And so that metaphor makes me appreciate even the downtimes.
6
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So equanimity, F is forgiveness.
6
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A thing that s very common is so many of us attach an emotion to either an experience or a negative interaction with the person.
6
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And the problem is if you don t let that go, every time you think of that experience or that person, it actually stimulates your sympathetic nervous system and makes you suffer.
6
SPEAKER_00
In AA, we say resentments are like drinking poison, hoping your enemy dies.
6
SPEAKER_01
I know those statements from AA.
6
SPEAKER_00
By the way, there s been 12 I just silenced myself and didn t say, but yes, it s incredible how littered the big book is with Buddhist stuff.
6
SPEAKER_00
I still have the same sponsor I ve had for...
6
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28 years.
6
SPEAKER_00
No kidding.
6
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Yeah.
6
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Do you fear he s going to die and what will happen then?
6
SPEAKER_00
Thanks for bringing that up.
6
SPEAKER_00
I never thought of that before.
6
SPEAKER_00
Don t worry.
6
SPEAKER_00
There s only a temporary fear.
6
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It ll pass just like your good times.
6
SPEAKER_01
No, no, no.
6
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Well, anything is possible, but he s been an incredible blessing for me.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, gee, gratitude.
6
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We know from a variety of studies that having a gratitude journal, writing down three things every day that you have gratitude for has a huge positive impact.
6
SPEAKER_00
I think it s important, Ed, too, they can be very inane.
6
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People think they have to list something incredibly profound, but like this is a Stutz encouragement.
6
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Anything, you re happy there s milk in the fridge.
6
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It doesn t have to be profound.
6
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It s just the act of putting your thoughts in that part of your brain.
6
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I remind myself 50% of the world s population lives on less than $2.50 a day.
6
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And so everything I feel blessed by.
6
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The other is humility, and this in some ways relates to dignity in the sense that recognizing you re no better than any other person.
6
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And unfortunately, as an example, being a neurosurgeon, being at Stanford, that can, for some people, become an ego trip.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I always tell people, I can always tell the good doctors.
6
SPEAKER_01
The good doctors come in and they know the nurse s name.
6
SPEAKER_01
They also honor the people who are sweeping the floors, people who are changing the bedpans and the sheets.
6
SPEAKER_01
The way people treat their assistants in this world.
6
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That s exactly right.
6
SPEAKER_01
And even in the operating room, the way I look at it is I cannot do my job without these people.
6
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They re a critical aspect.
6
SPEAKER_01
And in fact, if something happens in the OR, I always point at myself first.
6
SPEAKER_01
You know, there are people who raise their voice and they ll throw instruments and say, you idiot.
6
SPEAKER_01
If you have not directed the people in the correct way,
6
SPEAKER_01
honored who they are, understand who they are, have painted a picture of what you want to accomplish.
6
SPEAKER_01
Everything is your fault, period.
6
SPEAKER_01
That also humbles you because if you say it s all my fault, I can t scream at people.
6
SPEAKER_01
So I try to look at it that way.
6
SPEAKER_01
And then I is having integrity or values that bounds your behavior.
6
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Justice, I use that in the sense of our obligation and our particular positions to care for the vulnerable.
6
SPEAKER_01
Then K is kindness.
6
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So you don t have to suffer.
6
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You simply need to be a human being just to care
7
SPEAKER_02
for another person for no reason.
7
SPEAKER_02
And all of this is contained by love.
7
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Which of those, D through L, is hardest for you?
7
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Be honest, Jim.
7
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You bastard.
7
SPEAKER_02
Which one of those do you give yourself a C on?
7
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I think Kevin, humility.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s a hard one.
7
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I ve been blessed on some level to have done some things that people compliment me on, but I have to remind myself, yes, that s wonderful, but the talents that I have did not magically come because of me.
7
SPEAKER_02
They re a product of a whole variety of circumstances.
7
SPEAKER_02
And this is what s sad is people are being honored for things they did nothing to get.
7
SPEAKER_02
And even people who ve done certain types of accomplishments, let s say athletes, I appreciate that, but that doesn t also make you more important than anybody else.
7
SPEAKER_02
Do you know Robert Sapolsky?
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, we just had him on recently.
7
SPEAKER_02
Oh, you know, I have a podcast called into the magic shop.
7
SPEAKER_02
Oh, how do you know that?
7
SPEAKER_02
Well, why the hell not?
7
SPEAKER_02
Anyway, he and I were talking about free will and one of the arguments of course is that we didn t choose what we got and so why are we bragging or thinking we re particularly judgmental behaves my favorite book ever, but the new one pisses me off to no end and
7
SPEAKER_00
But why?
7
SPEAKER_00
That tenant is so real.
7
SPEAKER_01
To make it binary, there s no free will or there is free will.
7
SPEAKER_01
I think it s maybe a spectrum of free will and maybe it s down to 8%.
7
SPEAKER_01
I do not believe the future is predictable, even if we know the placement of every atom in the universe.
7
SPEAKER_02
If we did, it is.
7
SPEAKER_02
But we don t.
7
SPEAKER_01
So we can t.
7
SPEAKER_01
But I get where you re coming from.
7
SPEAKER_01
There s divergence.
7
SPEAKER_01
There s a lot of principles that interfere.
7
SPEAKER_01
He s a fucking beast, though.
7
SPEAKER_02
He is brilliant.
7
SPEAKER_02
We had a very wonderful conversation.
7
SPEAKER_01
OK, so this is interesting.
7
SPEAKER_01
Do you find that humility is hardest when you re intimidated?
7
SPEAKER_01
So Sapolsky is a triggering person to me.
7
SPEAKER_01
Like I read Behave and I go, how did this man become the premier expert on baboon societies?
7
SPEAKER_01
And he s not an anthropologist.
7
SPEAKER_01
He spent 33 years.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yes, and he is the number one expert on this.
7
SPEAKER_01
And that s not even his field.
7
SPEAKER_01
The intellect is enormous.
7
SPEAKER_01
And so when I sit with him, it brings up insecurities of me, the dyslexic kid s going to be talking to him.
7
SPEAKER_01
There s all this stuff.
7
SPEAKER_01
And then what seems like an easy antidote is now to bolster myself with all these other terrible qualities I have that I would elevate.
7
SPEAKER_01
Well, no, I can because of X, Y, and Z. Like, do you find that certain situations make humility harder to achieve because you feel fearful or threatened?
7
SPEAKER_02
Now, this may sound strange to you.
7
SPEAKER_02
I just don t care because I have been blessed by having experiences with some of the major spiritual religious leaders, political leaders, the John Hams of the world.
7
SPEAKER_01
Are we calling him a spiritual leader?
7
SPEAKER_01
Maybe we shouldn t go that far.
7
SPEAKER_01
He was phenomenal in season five of Fargo, but I don t know if I m going to bring my existential crises to him.
7
SPEAKER_02
But my point is, they re just human beings.
7
SPEAKER_02
And having spent time with many of the religious and spiritual leaders, people like worship these people.
7
SPEAKER_02
I go, what the?
7
SPEAKER_02
They re human beings.
7
SPEAKER_02
And frankly, being in the inner circle, if you will, on some level, they re just as fucked up as all of us.
7
SPEAKER_02
So somehow attributing like there s something special here.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yes, they may be special in this realm.
7
SPEAKER_01
coming full circle to attribution error, which is by practicing never feeling superior to anyone else and recognizing everyone s intrinsic value, you re weirdly affording him to have that view of you.
7
SPEAKER_01
You re reaping one of the benefits of your practice because you re going, well, I m not talking to the guy with an eighth grade education feeling superior because I refuse to let myself do that.
7
SPEAKER_01
So I m not even open to the notion that Sapolsky is going to be talking to me going, what a dumb motherfucker.
7
SPEAKER_01
Why did I come down here?
7
SPEAKER_01
kind of comes full circle to being in traffic.
7
SPEAKER_01
And if I cut people off, I m going to have to have the worst interpretation of being cut off.
7
SPEAKER_02
And the thing is, I have this unique experience of being able to converse with anybody and we re all the same and I don t get lost.
7
SPEAKER_02
Now, I will use that knife for dickheads.
7
SPEAKER_02
Somebody who comes up to you and starts trying to tell you how important they are or jack around.
7
SPEAKER_02
I mean, I can be a real dickhead.
7
SPEAKER_01
You can be a cervic.
7
SPEAKER_02
Well, most neurosurgeons have the ability to be complete fucking assholes.
7
SPEAKER_01
Listen, we ve interviewed a lot of surgeons and there is a fucking type.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
7
SPEAKER_02
The difference I have, and this may be self-serving, is that I did not decide to be a neurosurgeon until late.
7
SPEAKER_02
I was going to be a family doctor.
7
SPEAKER_02
And the reason I was going to be a family doctor is I had this naive notion that I would
7
SPEAKER_02
do pediatrics, deliver babies, take care of older people.
7
SPEAKER_02
But the only place you can do that, because you re held to the standard of the specialist in whatever community you re in, well, you can t possibly know as much as somebody fully trained, board certified in something.
7
SPEAKER_02
And so I realized that the only place I could actually do that was like in rural Alaska, and I did not want to go to rural Alaska.
7
SPEAKER_01
Although it was a great TV show.
7
SPEAKER_01
northern exposure.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yes, but the other thing was that I actually met some neurosurgeons in the army actually when I was doing my internship who so inspired me because I was gonna actually do general surgery become a plastic surgeon and then do cranial facial surgery on children to reconstruct their faces and that s really what I wanted to do but after 10 years of training my wife informed me that she was fucking tired.
7
SPEAKER_00
Sure, that s a long time.
7
SPEAKER_01
Are you becoming more and more specialized and going nowhere?
7
SPEAKER_02
I had done neurosurgery and I said, well, I ll just be a neurosurgeon.
7
SPEAKER_02
I ll stop there.
7
SPEAKER_02
But I thoroughly enjoyed it and was very good at it.
7
SPEAKER_02
And so I have no regrets whatsoever.
7
SPEAKER_02
And in fact, I ended up doing craniofacial surgery with a plastic surgeon, but my path wasn t to be a surgeon.
7
SPEAKER_02
So I would like to believe that I didn t become that person.
7
SPEAKER_02
But I will assure you there is at least a few people who will say, Jim Doty s an asshole.
7
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
7
SPEAKER_01
You haven t lived if there isn t a handful of folks.
7
SPEAKER_00
But I m with you.
7
SPEAKER_00
I agree based on this.
7
SPEAKER_00
I mean, we ve done six and a half years of this and we have people like you multiple times a week.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s crazy.
7
SPEAKER_00
But my takeaway is never, oh my God, we re so stupid or we re not worthy.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s, oh, everyone is special and everyone is not special.
7
SPEAKER_00
Everyone is the same.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_01
The aphorism is you are unique and special just like everyone else.
7
SPEAKER_02
If you look at the world through that lens, it always keeps you humble and it makes you understand everyone is special.
7
SPEAKER_02
And if you treat people that way, again, one of the big things in my life that I learned when I changed the energy that I put out to people, because I used to be very critical because of my own insecurities and I would be judgmental when I changed how I looked at the world and had a sense of openness, caring, and understanding that everyone s suffering.
7
SPEAKER_02
Actually, it changed how people interacted with me.
7
SPEAKER_02
And what people don t appreciate is that we have a certain vibrational energy, and of course that also heads off some people in the woo-woo side of the house, but we do.
7
SPEAKER_02
And our hearts actually put out energy about five or six feet outside of our bodies, and it can be responded to by other people.
7
SPEAKER_02
How you carry yourself, how you look at the world, affects other people around you.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and create your own ecosystem, kind of.
7
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
7
SPEAKER_01
Well, Dr. James Doty, this has been a real pleasure.
7
SPEAKER_01
I hope everyone checks out Mind Magic, How the Neuroscience of Manifestation Can Change Your Life, and I definitely understand why Jon Hamm s a huge fan.
7
SPEAKER_01
I will say, I just want to thank you personally, because as I already said, self-proclaimed skeptic,
7
SPEAKER_01
I m enjoying so much people connecting these things that are kind of old and robust and true.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m newly into Buddhism, but it s shocking just since I ve been reading about it, how much of it surfaces in all these other conversations.
7
SPEAKER_01
We re talking to a memory expert.
7
SPEAKER_01
We re talking about the context that you re in will affect how you retrieve your memories.
7
SPEAKER_01
It ll alter your memories, right?
7
SPEAKER_01
And this is all Buddhism.
7
SPEAKER_01
There is no consciousness.
7
SPEAKER_01
There is consciousness arising out of a given context, which is ever changing.
7
SPEAKER_01
And so I m really delighted when people like you are linking the science to it.
7
SPEAKER_01
I think it just will help get people over the hurdle, myself included.
7
SPEAKER_01
It s very comforting to know like, no, no, we re looking at the brain in an fMRI and this is happening.
7
SPEAKER_01
This isn t woo.
7
SPEAKER_02
Well, and this is the challenge, is people attach woo-woo and pseudoscience, so they ll say a statement that in part is true, and then they ll add all this baggage to it, and then they ll push that out there.
7
SPEAKER_02
My belief is if we can honestly lay it out there as it is, and also how to get rid of the woo-woo stuff, make you understand how it works best, and I think in terms of manifestation, it s really important because this book is really about the power of your mind to change your life.
7
SPEAKER_02
And there is no other magic beyond that.
7
SPEAKER_02
Your mind has immense power.
7
SPEAKER_02
You just have to understand how it works.
7
SPEAKER_02
And you can actually manifest an incredible amount of things.
7
SPEAKER_02
Now, that being said, I don t want to sit there and imply that, well, if you do this, everything you want will come true.
7
SPEAKER_02
There are some forces, either systemically in our society, that may prevent things.
7
SPEAKER_02
There may be other competing interests.
7
SPEAKER_02
You may not have clarity about what it is you really want.
7
SPEAKER_01
I think that s a big one, by the way.
7
SPEAKER_01
I have friends who are like, I want a family.
7
SPEAKER_01
I m like, do you?
7
SPEAKER_01
Because everything you re doing is kind of contrary to that goal.
7
SPEAKER_02
This gets back to what are you manifesting today?
7
SPEAKER_02
And if you look at their path and they ve never looked at it, they don t understand what it is that s driving them.
7
SPEAKER_02
Because making a statement like that typically is in response to if you re with somebody who has a family and they re happy and they go, oh, well, I sort of want that.
7
SPEAKER_02
But they don t really want that.
7
SPEAKER_02
They want something else.
7
SPEAKER_02
Now, most people, frankly, want the easy way out.
7
SPEAKER_02
The brain is lazy.
7
SPEAKER_01
Well, let s call it efficient.
7
SPEAKER_01
It wants to expend the least amount of energy possible.
7
SPEAKER_02
That typically is repeating the same habits you ve done.
7
SPEAKER_02
So you have to put the work in it, even though the first sentence says the universe doesn t give a fuck about you.
7
SPEAKER_02
I would also say God only helps those who help themselves.
8
SPEAKER_00
to show up, you have to do the practice, you have to be motivated, and you have to understand the power.
8
SPEAKER_00
And I think, though, one of the other things just to throw out there is you don t need to read this book and go, oh, I m going to do this tomorrow, it s going to happen, I m going to get everything I want.
8
SPEAKER_00
The best way is to start with baby steps, do a few exercises that show you the power you have to change your habits, which is what we re talking about.
8
SPEAKER_00
How do you create a habit?
8
SPEAKER_00
If you do these baby steps and you do a few things, go, oh, OK, I get it.
8
SPEAKER_00
And then you do more.
8
SPEAKER_00
And it s like learning how to run a marathon.
8
SPEAKER_00
You don t run a marathon by running a marathon.
8
SPEAKER_00
You run a marathon by getting up at six and walking around the block at first.
8
SPEAKER_01
I just love how perfectly infused the entire book is with all of the science that s happening.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s like we get into any one of these six things.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s immediately accompanied by what s happening in your brain and what system is enacted.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s very, very concrete and very well rooted.
8
SPEAKER_00
Well, and I think the other part that s nice, at least for me, is to connect it with stories of people.
8
SPEAKER_00
And you mentioned Anula, but there s actually a story about Jim Carrey in there and others.
8
SPEAKER_00
Because these are things that so many of us face until we understand that we somehow think it s about us.
8
SPEAKER_00
And then we realize it s really not about us, it s about how can we be of service.
8
SPEAKER_00
Then a light goes on and go, oh, wow, here are all the positive things I can get while still getting what it is that I really need.
8
SPEAKER_00
And most people, if you ask them deeply, they want a sense of meaning and purpose in their lives in this period of time, which is very short that we re on this planet.
8
SPEAKER_01
Back to AA, service just relieves you yourself.
8
SPEAKER_01
And wow, the result of that s actually pleasant, counterintuitive.
8
SPEAKER_00
Well, and just as a final point, not to forget that every one of us every day has the ability to improve the life of at least one other person.
8
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, that s a great way to end it.
8
SPEAKER_01
Jim, thank you so much.
8
SPEAKER_01
This has been a blast.
8
SPEAKER_01
Again, everyone check out Mind Magic.
8
SPEAKER_01
I hope we get to talk to you again.
8
SPEAKER_01
You will.
8
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
8
SPEAKER_03
We won t cancel on you last minute next time.
8
SPEAKER_01
I don t believe you sons of bitches.
8
SPEAKER_01
Fool me once, shame on you.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
8
SPEAKER_01
All right, be well.
8
SPEAKER_01
We hope you enjoyed this episode.
8
SPEAKER_01
Unfortunately, they made some mistakes.
8
SPEAKER_02
I want to be a baby panda, just for one day.
8
SPEAKER_01
They re like, have a built-in airbag or something.
8
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, they re jelly.
8
SPEAKER_01
They do not care.
8
SPEAKER_01
They re so stupid.
8
SPEAKER_01
And I don t know, it s funny, an animal s never been more linked to anything to me than them and China.
8
SPEAKER_03
Right.
8
SPEAKER_01
And I can t help but watch them and then also pair that up with my global stereotype of the Chinese, which is like very hardworking.
8
SPEAKER_03
Right.
8
SPEAKER_01
And on it.
8
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
And then their kind of spirit animal or their signature animal is this lazy goofball that s like falling out of trees and stuff.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s really funny.
8
SPEAKER_03
I guess it s mixed messes.
8
SPEAKER_01
It d be like somehow if Sweden s national animal was a miniature something.
8
SPEAKER_03
Sure, a mouse.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s like, oh, these people are known for being inordinately tall.
8
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
And then they have like a miniature gorilla.
8
SPEAKER_02
That s fun.
8
SPEAKER_01
Or something.
8
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, a pygmy.
8
SPEAKER_01
Do you think about the Chinese of it when you re looking at the pandas?
8
SPEAKER_01
Like, you know they re in China.
8
SPEAKER_03
I know they re in China, I guess, but mainly the only reason I notice is often the accounts are
8
SPEAKER_01
written in Mandarin or... Right.
8
SPEAKER_03
They re, they re not English.
8
SPEAKER_03
And so I guess it reminds me of that.
8
SPEAKER_01
Oh, speaking of which similar, you know, the auto suggestions that it sends to you, which by the way, I m in favor of, I don t know if people like that or don t like that.
8
SPEAKER_03
I sometimes don t like it sometimes too.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s pretty spot on for me.
8
SPEAKER_03
On Instagram.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
But of course, what s clear is I m, I m definitely changing the algorithm because I send you those panda ones.
8
SPEAKER_01
And then now it s just like, every time I sign on, there s more and more pandas.
8
SPEAKER_01
My feed s going to be entirely pandas, which I don t, I like them, but I don t want that either.
8
SPEAKER_03
Why?
8
SPEAKER_03
So happy.
8
SPEAKER_01
Well, it s because it would take the place of some of the other stuff.
8
SPEAKER_01
And here we go.
8
SPEAKER_01
So I also get a lot of motorcycle videos.
8
SPEAKER_03
Sure.
8
SPEAKER_01
And I get a lot of these.
8
SPEAKER_03
That s mixed messes.
8
SPEAKER_03
You have a lot of pandas, occasional bar fight.
8
SPEAKER_01
I like those too.
8
SPEAKER_01
Um, but so among the motorcycle stuff is like the stuff I m accustomed to, like motorcycle racing, dirt bikes, but then there s also all these videos that are like basically bicycles with engines on them and guys racing them.
8
SPEAKER_01
And it s all Indian.
8
SPEAKER_03
Oh, do you think it s cause they know you went to India?
8
SPEAKER_03
So now they know you re kind of interested in India.
8
SPEAKER_01
Well, certainly it s building on the motorcycle interest, but yeah, maybe it cross pollinated with my recent interest in India.
8
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
But again, very unique to the region.
8
SPEAKER_01
All these regions have a kind of signature motor sportsy thing.
8
SPEAKER_03
Really?
8
SPEAKER_01
They do.
8
SPEAKER_01
Like say the whole Middle East area is mostly these like really
8
SPEAKER_01
totally dorky pedestrian looking tiny SUVs or like utility pickup trucks.
8
SPEAKER_03
Okay.
8
SPEAKER_01
But they have put like 2000 horsepower turbo motors in them to climb sand dunes.
8
SPEAKER_01
They re so specific, like you don t see these anywhere else in the world.
8
SPEAKER_03
Interesting.
8
SPEAKER_01
And they re everywhere.
8
SPEAKER_01
And then also big in the Middle East is like drifting these super boring looking passenger cars with guys hanging out of the window.
8
SPEAKER_01
That s very unique to the region.
8
SPEAKER_01
Last one in that region is driving the Jeeps on two wheels is a big thing over there.
8
SPEAKER_01
They ll be on the highway.
8
SPEAKER_01
They re on two wheels.
8
SPEAKER_01
The guys that are better at it, they ll have guys.
8
SPEAKER_01
This is true.
8
SPEAKER_01
One of the videos, it s a Jeep driving on two wheels.
8
SPEAKER_03
That means the top front wheels are up.
8
SPEAKER_01
No, front right wheel and rear right wheel, on its side.
8
SPEAKER_03
Oh.
8
SPEAKER_01
Right, not doing a wheelie or driving on the front wheels, but driving complete, like Dukes of Hazzard, sideways.
8
SPEAKER_01
Weird.
8
SPEAKER_01
So the car s leaning like this, right?
8
SPEAKER_01
And then guys in the passenger window and passenger rear, windows down, come out of the Jeep, take the tires off of the tires that are in the air, trade them, put them back on, and then it drives.
8
SPEAKER_01
And this is all done on a public road.
8
SPEAKER_01
What?
8
SPEAKER_01
It s not closed.
8
SPEAKER_01
So they re running and- No, they re hanging up the window, so the Jeep is tilted up on its side.
8
SPEAKER_03
But is it driving?
8
SPEAKER_01
Yes, it s flying down the highway.
8
SPEAKER_01
So they re hanging up the window of the passenger seat, leaning over, unbolting the wheels, taking them off, trading them, putting them back on, and then they come back in the window, and then the guy driving puts it back on four wheels.
8
SPEAKER_03
This is very dangerous.
8
SPEAKER_01
On a public road.
8
SPEAKER_03
Wow.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you re only gonna see that in the Middle East.
8
SPEAKER_01
Cool.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
Scandinavia has a thing.
8
SPEAKER_01
I know we ve run its course.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s the last one I ll tell you about.
8
SPEAKER_01
What is it?
8
SPEAKER_01
Their unique thing is they love these crazy hill climbs, but like the hills are impossibly steep.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s always the sides of a quarry, like a rock quarry that s been dug out.
8
SPEAKER_01
And they have these four wheel drive Jeeps again with these like monstrous nitro fucking supercharged 2000 horsepower motors.
8
SPEAKER_01
and they re at the bottom of the quarry, and then they just fucking floor it, and they just scream up the top, and they re almost like straight up and down and getting to the lip of it, and you re only seeing that in Scandinavia.
8
SPEAKER_01
I kinda like the regional.
8
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, that s fun.
8
SPEAKER_01
It is.
8
SPEAKER_03
Unique.
8
SPEAKER_03
Well, because people have to play in their environments.
8
SPEAKER_03
Are you letting your beard grow out?
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I m surprised you noticed.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I haven t shaved since I went to Austin for no particular reason.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it looks different.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, better or worse, be honest.
8
SPEAKER_03
No, no, I don t think better or worse.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s not better or worse, it s just different.
8
SPEAKER_03
But it s just, I can tell.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you know, it s because I haven t had a haircut in a while either.
8
SPEAKER_01
So when I let my hair grow longer, I tend to let my beard grow longer as well.
8
SPEAKER_01
Interesting.
8
SPEAKER_01
Like proportionally, I feel like.
8
SPEAKER_03
So are you gonna grow out your hair?
8
SPEAKER_01
I have no clue what I m doing with my hair.
8
SPEAKER_01
I just simply haven t got it cut.
8
SPEAKER_03
Okay.
8
SPEAKER_01
What I like about it is way more gray comes out and it kind of is back to my punk rock roots where it s like, I d have some of my hair dyed, but it s my body s just doing it for me now.
8
SPEAKER_03
Well, I got kind of nervous when you walked up because I saw your beard.
8
SPEAKER_03
Uh-huh.
8
SPEAKER_03
But I didn t notice your beard on whenever I saw you last, which was probably- Two days ago.
8
SPEAKER_03
Thursday, yeah.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
8
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, so I think it grew a lot this weekend.
8
SPEAKER_01
Maybe.
8
SPEAKER_03
And I knew you were dealing with a sick kid, so I thought maybe you were sick and the beard had to do with you being sick.
8
SPEAKER_01
and was protecting me, grew faster to insulate me.
8
SPEAKER_03
Or you were so sick, your body was making hair.
8
SPEAKER_01
And my nails grew out really long.
8
SPEAKER_01
Now one thing, it s been a while since I did let my beard get a little longer, and what I m pretty certain of, I d have to go back and look at pictures, it seems to have degrayed a bit.
8
SPEAKER_03
Really?
8
SPEAKER_01
Which I know is not possible, but do you remember?
8
SPEAKER_03
It s possible.
8
SPEAKER_01
Because it s certainly gray, but I feel like it used to be grayer when I grew it out, which I don t know how that could have possibly happened.
8
SPEAKER_01
Maybe my hair is just gobbling up all the gray ingredient and now, I don t know.
8
SPEAKER_03
I mean, I think, isn t it like it s dead now?
8
SPEAKER_03
So it s gonna be gray.
8
SPEAKER_01
Well, it s growing.
8
SPEAKER_03
I know, I don t understand gray hair.
8
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I don t either.
8
SPEAKER_03
It s supposed to be dead, but then yet it does.
8
SPEAKER_01
No, it just loses its pigment.
8
SPEAKER_03
But I think it s also dead.
8
SPEAKER_03
That s why some of them are like curly and wonky and spry.
9
SPEAKER_00
On this topic, are you ladies envious at all that like we have so much to play with just to keep things novel?
9
SPEAKER_00
Like I can just decide, yeah, I m going to change the total look of my face over the next month and a half and grow this preposterous.
9
SPEAKER_01
Um, no, because I think we have that with makeup.
9
SPEAKER_01
Oh, like we can play with our face a lot.
9
SPEAKER_01
I mean, men can too, of course, but women can make all kinds of different looks with makeup.
9
SPEAKER_01
I feel like you guys are actually more limited.
9
SPEAKER_01
All you have is the beard.
9
SPEAKER_00
He has the hair.
9
SPEAKER_00
Do I want hair on my head or hair on my face as well?
9
SPEAKER_00
Also, I m timing this completely wrong as I usually do.
9
SPEAKER_00
This is always, I don t know why I do this, but I generally have short hair when it s cold.
9
SPEAKER_00
And then I ll tend to grow my hair out, my beard out when it s hot and it s backwards.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
But here I am inclined to let everything grow for a while and it s getting warmer and warmer.
9
SPEAKER_00
And I don t know why that s my mistake.
9
SPEAKER_01
I think long hair for summer is nice.
9
SPEAKER_01
Oh, okay.
9
SPEAKER_00
Great.
9
SPEAKER_01
I think sometimes women like having long hair for summer.
9
SPEAKER_01
That s a huge general mistake.
9
SPEAKER_00
Well you said sometimes.
9
SPEAKER_00
My girls both just got their hair cut off.
9
SPEAKER_01
Well, I don t know about the younger Jen.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, we can t speak on that.
9
SPEAKER_01
I can t speak on that.
9
SPEAKER_01
But my Jen, mainly me and Callie.
9
SPEAKER_00
You like it long in the summer.
9
SPEAKER_01
I always like it long, my hair s long.
9
SPEAKER_01
But Callie would often grow her hair out for the summer.
9
SPEAKER_00
For a bathing suit look?
9
SPEAKER_01
It s kind of like mermaid-y look.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh, sure, sure.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s gotta be linked to a bathing suit somehow, right?
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, like maybe it s like it covers your boobs.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh, okay.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh, so she s not wearing a top.
9
SPEAKER_00
If you decide to take your top off.
9
SPEAKER_01
If you want to sunbathe, but cover up your nipples.
9
SPEAKER_00
But can women really make that much of a change?
9
SPEAKER_00
It takes a minute.
9
SPEAKER_00
Right.
9
SPEAKER_00
Like if you go, I m going to grow my hair long for the summer, it s probably only going to be 5% longer.
9
SPEAKER_00
Whereas for me, like my hair is currently twice as long as it was a month ago, proportionally, because it was so short.
9
SPEAKER_01
Right.
9
SPEAKER_00
But you re, Callie s going to go from like 11 inches of hair to 12 inches of hair for the summer is interesting.
9
SPEAKER_01
No, no, no.
9
SPEAKER_01
She, because Callie has had a lot of hair looks in her life.
9
SPEAKER_01
She s kind of more like you, I guess.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
9
SPEAKER_00
Remember we said that.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
And you re, it s getting, I guess, proven over and over.
9
SPEAKER_00
I m going to let you prove it though.
9
SPEAKER_01
She s, yeah, she s played with a lot of looks.
9
SPEAKER_00
What I pointed out for the listener was.
9
SPEAKER_01
Oh, it was on here.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh, it was.
9
SPEAKER_01
But do it again.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh, just, I think it s interesting that people pair up in, I think, a mutually beneficial way, which is you re very risk adverse, and Callie, at least from my understanding of her, she trends high on the risk.
9
SPEAKER_00
Like, she s a little more risky than you.
9
SPEAKER_00
She s more risky than me.
9
SPEAKER_00
So she probably pulls you along into some places, and then you ve probably tempered her riskiness.
9
SPEAKER_00
No?
9
SPEAKER_01
I don t think.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
9
SPEAKER_00
Well, at any rate, all I observed is that I feel like Callie and I in some way fulfill the same role in your life.
9
SPEAKER_01
You were saying that Aaron and I and Charlie were similar.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yep.
9
SPEAKER_01
Three of your close friends were similar.
9
SPEAKER_01
And then you said, and it kind of makes sense because maybe Callie and I are similar and I pushed back, but I guess we re finding- The more you think about it.
9
SPEAKER_01
I guess we re finding a couple more crossovers, one being
9
SPEAKER_01
The hair.
9
SPEAKER_01
But she... You know, when I had my astrology reading, my astrologer said it s good for me to be around water signs, and she s a water sign.
9
SPEAKER_00
Oh, okay.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
9
SPEAKER_01
Because it s very different for me.
9
SPEAKER_00
While we re on the topic of Callie, I have had such a arms distance connection to her just through you.
9
SPEAKER_00
And so I know very little about her, but what s fun about being on this connections thread.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you get to see her.
9
SPEAKER_00
I get to see her more.
9
SPEAKER_00
And when I m seen, and I m sure you ve observed this with Aaron and I, which is like, oh, we have a similar sense of humor.
9
SPEAKER_00
And so what I m learning is that Callie s really quite clever.
9
SPEAKER_01
So clever.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yes, and I didn t know that.
9
SPEAKER_00
I haven t interacted with her enough.
9
SPEAKER_01
My best friend wouldn t be anything but.
9
SPEAKER_00
Great.
9
SPEAKER_01
Right?
9
SPEAKER_01
But really, she s my Erin.
9
SPEAKER_00
I know, Solveig.
9
SPEAKER_01
So my best of all time is gonna be cool.
9
SPEAKER_00
Well, I knew she was cool.
9
SPEAKER_00
Okay, that s obvious just from looking at her and I knew she had an aesthetic if you go to her Instagram page, it s very beautiful Yeah, what I didn t know is that she s very funny clever So the one that really got me the other day was when she said that she felt like we were communicating with oh you liked that
9
SPEAKER_00
I loved that.
9
SPEAKER_00
Did you see I had a follow-up that was like, or maybe it s a dead relative.
9
SPEAKER_00
Like she was saying that she thought that there was a pattern being placed in connections that was someone communicating with us from outer space.
9
SPEAKER_00
And that s such a unique, abstract, funny thought that I really liked.
9
SPEAKER_01
She s not very, this is the first time I m having this revelation.
9
SPEAKER_01
I don t think Callie is a people pleaser.
9
SPEAKER_00
Right, or even an approval junkie.
9
SPEAKER_01
Exactly, I don t think she needs it.
9
SPEAKER_00
Right, that s what I m saying.
9
SPEAKER_00
There s an economy to when she is witty.
9
SPEAKER_00
So she s not someone going for a joke all the time.
9
SPEAKER_00
There s no neediness to her, which is very appealing.
9
SPEAKER_01
I feel that about Aaron.
9
SPEAKER_00
Totally.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s like when the time s right, he lets it rip, but there s no neediness.
9
SPEAKER_00
Anywho, it s been fun.
9
SPEAKER_01
Now, do you think,
9
SPEAKER_01
What do you think about me and her?
9
SPEAKER_01
Like, what have you seen?
9
SPEAKER_00
Well, once I saw this side of her, I m like, oh, I get it.
9
SPEAKER_00
I bet their text chains to each other are fantastic.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
Do you think it s similar or do you?
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
You re both very, very clever, mildly sarcastic.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
I, like you say, with Nate and probably with Aaron, I have no idea
9
SPEAKER_01
no sense of competition with Callie.
9
SPEAKER_00
Right.
9
SPEAKER_01
At all.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
But there are people in my life with varying degrees of that, because that s very human.
9
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, there s none with her.
9
SPEAKER_01
It s a very safe relationship.
9
SPEAKER_00
I get it.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s also a little bit what Phineas was saying, which is when you truly love somebody, you re genuinely happy to see them get approval and be shined on.
9
SPEAKER_01
I know, but I think that s a little basic.
9
SPEAKER_01
Like, I think you can really love someone and it s still be, there can be triggers.
9
SPEAKER_01
And it s not normally about the other person, it s just you, right?
9
SPEAKER_01
It s about whatever you re going through.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, but I would argue maybe those triggers and those character defects that are preventing you from rooting for the person would be a good measure of how much you actually love them.
9
SPEAKER_00
It would say that to me that your baggage is standing in the way of you actually loving them truly.
9
SPEAKER_01
I guess so.
9
SPEAKER_01
I think though, I think you can,
9
SPEAKER_01
be 100% rooting for someone and want only the best for them and get jealous.
9
SPEAKER_01
Like, I think that s very human and I don t think there s actually a problem with that.
9
SPEAKER_01
As long as you re not like, I don t want it for them.
9
SPEAKER_01
I don t want it.
9
SPEAKER_01
It s just things can bring up for you like, I want that.
9
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I ve experienced it on my side, and I ve been on the other side of that, and I think it s fine.
9
SPEAKER_01
I understand if there s jealousy that comes into play, as long as they re not, like, upset by my success.
9
SPEAKER_01
I understand if it s, like, triggering something in them that they don t have and want.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
9
SPEAKER_01
You know what I mean?
9
SPEAKER_00
I know what you mean.
9
SPEAKER_00
I m not sure that I agree with you, but I do know what you mean.
9
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
9
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, so I think it s funny because I know you think you and Aaron have that I mean you obviously have a cohesive sense of humor like you you balance you like
9
SPEAKER_00
We get into a rhythm with one another and we build on each other and we have the exact same, very specific thing that we love to build on.
9
SPEAKER_01
That you like and enjoy.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yes, now like, yes, if you meet Aaron at a bar and you meet me at a bar and the kind of ways he ll be funny and the kind of way, probably independently are different.
9
SPEAKER_01
Right.
9
SPEAKER_00
But when we re together, they kind of fuse in this, there becomes a third sense of humor that he and I own collectively.
9
SPEAKER_01
Totally, totally.
9
SPEAKER_01
I think that s common in friendships.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
9
SPEAKER_00
And it s always when he s here that I m reminded how much I enjoy that silly zone he and I live in.
9
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so fun.
9
SPEAKER_00
It s so fun.
9
SPEAKER_00
I m in a good spell right now.
9
SPEAKER_00
I just hiked with David Walton.
9
SPEAKER_01
Oh, nice.
9
SPEAKER_00
He s another person who I just have this deep, when I m with him, it s just this feeling of joy.
9
SPEAKER_01
Oh, that s nice.
9
SPEAKER_00
And symmetry between whatever we re just, it s a very easy balance between the two of us.
9
SPEAKER_00
That s great.
9
SPEAKER_00
But also a rough weekend.
9
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, very sick child.
9
SPEAKER_01
That s sad.
9
SPEAKER_00
He had a sick kid too.
9
SPEAKER_00
What s that?
9
SPEAKER_00
Calvin was sick too.
9
SPEAKER_00
Really?
9
SPEAKER_00
Yep.
9
SPEAKER_00
So Friday night, first Lincoln came in and she had a nightmare.
9
SPEAKER_00
So Kristen went and laid with her in the middle bedroom and then Delta came in.
9
SPEAKER_00
She was crying and she s super sick.
9
SPEAKER_00
So she laid down next to me and she started snoring.
9
SPEAKER_00
It can t even be called a snore.
9
SPEAKER_00
This is what it sounded like.
9
SPEAKER_01
Oh, God.
9
SPEAKER_01
Oh, like you think she was.
10
SPEAKER_02
I was worried.
10
SPEAKER_02
It sounded like she had sleep apnea.
10
SPEAKER_00
Right.
10
SPEAKER_02
Cause her nose was just 100% clogged.
10
SPEAKER_02
She couldn t breathe through it, but she was trying to breathe through it.
10
SPEAKER_02
So then she was breathing through her mouth.
10
SPEAKER_02
So it was just insane amount of noise coming up next to me.
10
SPEAKER_00
Oh man.
10
SPEAKER_02
And so I put on my noise canceling headphones and I m trying to sleep next to her.
10
SPEAKER_00
Your safety blanket.
10
SPEAKER_02
It sounds like there s a grizzly bear mauling a deer next to me.
10
SPEAKER_02
And then every 20 minutes she starts crying in her sleep because her throat is sore from breathing through her mouth.
10
SPEAKER_02
So then she s just crying, but she s still asleep.
10
SPEAKER_00
Oh no.
10
SPEAKER_02
Because you cry for 20 minutes and then.
10
SPEAKER_00
Oh.
10
SPEAKER_02
And so it was, I mean, I felt like I had been captured by the Taliban and this was one of these ways that they sleep deprive you to make you crazy and give up secrets.
10
SPEAKER_02
Like it felt more than just, it felt,
10
SPEAKER_02
It felt like calculated and yeah, it felt like torture.
10
SPEAKER_02
It felt like.
10
SPEAKER_00
It does feel.
10
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
10
SPEAKER_00
The snort when snoring, when you re in that zone and someone is snoring.
10
SPEAKER_02
Aaron s snoring in the motor home.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_00
It feels aggressive.
10
SPEAKER_00
It feels hostile.
10
SPEAKER_00
It feels.
10
SPEAKER_00
pointed in on purpose and they re doing it to you.
10
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
10
SPEAKER_02
But then you add in the crying, which is of course, I love her and I m not going to be able to just like, listen to her whimper and cry.
10
SPEAKER_02
So it s like, it was this great back and forth between like,
10
SPEAKER_02
wanting to put a pillow over her face and murder her, because the noise was so loud.
10
SPEAKER_02
And then this crying and tenderness where I was trying, wanting to nurture her, mixed with her, what we call starfishing, which all night long she throws her body around and spins around in the bed.
10
SPEAKER_02
So it was like, there was a physical assault.
10
SPEAKER_02
There was, it was so much going on.
10
SPEAKER_02
So of course I woke up Saturday and I was like, I m not sure we got anything done last night, restoratively.
10
SPEAKER_02
And then Lincoln went to the cute, first of all, this is so cute, went with pals to Malibu to the beach.
10
SPEAKER_02
Oh my God.
10
SPEAKER_00
That is so adult.
10
SPEAKER_02
I think it was one of the, it was like a kid, one of the kids  birthday parties, so he had like, he had a little volleyball, then it turned into they played football.
10
SPEAKER_02
Cute.
10
SPEAKER_02
And she rode with, you know, a friend and her mom.
10
SPEAKER_00
She did, she got picked up.
10
SPEAKER_02
She got picked up, which is rare.
10
SPEAKER_02
So she had like a whole excursion, it felt very Malibu Barbie, like she was going out to the beach.
10
SPEAKER_00
It does.
10
SPEAKER_02
It was a terrible day too.
10
SPEAKER_02
It was like 60 degrees and cloudy.
10
SPEAKER_00
I was yucky on Saturday.
10
SPEAKER_02
She got in the ocean anyways.
10
SPEAKER_02
God bless her.
10
SPEAKER_02
So she was gone the whole day.
10
SPEAKER_02
So then it was just Delta and she was in just the foulest mood.
10
SPEAKER_02
And she was insistent on going to the park.
10
SPEAKER_02
And she wanted to go to a very specific park.
10
SPEAKER_00
Even though she was sick?
10
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
10
SPEAKER_02
And you re like, this is not a... You don t want to be at a park.
10
SPEAKER_02
Let s get you in front of the TV and have you pass out.
10
SPEAKER_02
But we went to the park.
10
SPEAKER_02
On the way there, we watched a semi smash a car.
10
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
10
SPEAKER_02
Yes, it was the craziest fucking thing.
10
SPEAKER_00
Scary.
10
SPEAKER_02
It was all I could do to not get involved.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_02
This dude, you know on Los Feliz Boulevard, right at the 101, that intersection with Riverside and that, this semi was in the very far right lane.
10
SPEAKER_02
And then as it s coming through the intersection, it starts trying to merge over into the other lane.
10
SPEAKER_02
And then I look, I m like, why s this guy gotta get in that other lane?
10
SPEAKER_02
Now all the traffic s packed up.
10
SPEAKER_02
And then I m like,
10
SPEAKER_02
Oh, this motherfucker is going to try to make a left turn across four lanes from the right lane because he got off at the wrong exit.
10
SPEAKER_02
And I m basically, I m like on it because I m in the left turn lane.
10
SPEAKER_02
I m even thinking about going directly in front of him so he can t do this, but then it would have pinched traffic even worse.
10
SPEAKER_02
And I m like, not your job to be the sheriff.
10
SPEAKER_02
Very hard for me not to get involved.
10
SPEAKER_02
And sure enough, he just goes.
10
SPEAKER_02
I m waving to him.
10
SPEAKER_02
Dude, you can t go.
10
SPEAKER_02
There s cars all next to the just fucking goes plows through a car in the intersection.
10
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
10
SPEAKER_02
And then takes down off down Riverside.
10
SPEAKER_01
What?
10
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
10
SPEAKER_02
I watched the car spin.
10
SPEAKER_02
And I think, well, they re definitely going to follow the semi and get its license plate number.
10
SPEAKER_02
They then went in the opposite direction and blasted out of there with a totaled car.
10
SPEAKER_02
What?
10
SPEAKER_02
So I m like, what did we just see?
10
SPEAKER_02
Does that person not have a license?
10
SPEAKER_02
Are they in a stolen car?
10
SPEAKER_02
Did they not have insurance?
10
SPEAKER_02
What the fuck?
10
SPEAKER_02
And these two were made in heaven.
10
SPEAKER_02
This guy just drove over a car with a semi and they ran.
10
SPEAKER_00
That s weird.
10
SPEAKER_02
So it was a weird omen right before you get to the park.
10
SPEAKER_02
Get to the park.
10
SPEAKER_02
She didn t want to be there.
10
SPEAKER_02
We set up all the bullshit.
10
SPEAKER_02
She looks at the thing for five minutes.
10
SPEAKER_02
She s like, I want to go home after we leave.
10
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
10
SPEAKER_02
It was just one of those days.
10
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, sure.
10
SPEAKER_02
But, highlight, we then that night went to see, well, Friday night we saw Bill Burr at the Hollywood Bowl.
10
SPEAKER_00
Oh, cool.
10
SPEAKER_02
Because it s Netflix is a joke weekend.
10
SPEAKER_00
Oh, nice.
10
SPEAKER_02
And Kristen s doing a show for Netflix, so we had access to all these tickets.
10
SPEAKER_02
So we went to Bill Burr Friday night, and then Saturday we went and saw Shane Gillis at The Greek.
10
SPEAKER_00
Oh, wow.
10
SPEAKER_02
And I gotta say,
10
SPEAKER_02
might be the best stand-up show I ve ever seen.
10
SPEAKER_02
It was unreal, I know.
10
SPEAKER_02
Best comedian of all time?
10
SPEAKER_02
Well, no, that s Richard Pryor.
10
SPEAKER_02
So it was great, you loved it.
10
SPEAKER_02
And Letterman, and who else did we say?
10
SPEAKER_02
Bill Murray, Jerry Seinfeld.
10
SPEAKER_02
At any rate, it was incredible.
10
SPEAKER_02
Great.
10
SPEAKER_02
It was so good, I can t believe how good.
10
SPEAKER_02
He is just, and you know what it is, talking with Dave on the walk today, because Dave s starting to do stand-up, 75% of it
10
SPEAKER_02
is how comfortable is that human being standing in front of all the people on stage?
10
SPEAKER_02
It s so infectious.
10
SPEAKER_02
Like when they have that complete calmness and steadiness and confidence, like that does so much to the lifting.
10
SPEAKER_02
And I gotta say, I don t know if I ve ever seen someone just so comfortable sitting there telling stories on stage.
10
SPEAKER_02
It was just wonderful.
10
SPEAKER_00
Fun.
10
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it was really fun.
10
SPEAKER_02
Your weekend, go.
10
SPEAKER_00
On Friday, we did drive by Bob s Big Boy, and Bob was gone.
10
SPEAKER_02
What do you mean?
10
SPEAKER_00
You know, the Big Bob?
10
SPEAKER_02
The Big Big Boy.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, the Big Boy.
10
SPEAKER_02
The Big Boy, in his overalls.
10
SPEAKER_00
Is his name Bob?
10
SPEAKER_02
No, Bob is the franchisee.
10
SPEAKER_02
I thought his name was Bob.
10
SPEAKER_02
Big Boy is the restaurant change, like McDonald s.
10
SPEAKER_02
But in Michigan, most of them are owned by Elias Brothers.
10
SPEAKER_02
So it would say Elias Brothers Big Boy.
10
SPEAKER_02
Here it s Bob s, Bob s Big Boy.
10
SPEAKER_02
They varied state to state.
10
SPEAKER_00
I m bummed.
10
SPEAKER_02
Isn t that wild?
10
SPEAKER_00
I thought his name was Bob.
10
SPEAKER_02
No, he s Big Boy.
10
SPEAKER_00
I thought he was Bob Big Boy.
10
SPEAKER_02
Then it should be big boy, Bob.
10
SPEAKER_00
No.
10
SPEAKER_02
Like if there was a big boy named Bob, that s worth earmark that.
10
SPEAKER_00
OK.
10
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I think he ll be big boy, Bob.
10
SPEAKER_02
But it s Bob s big boy, Bob s McDonald s.
10
SPEAKER_00
Fuck, I feel like I never even knew it.
10
SPEAKER_01
The statue was down though, you said?
10
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_01
They retired him, apparently.
10
SPEAKER_00
What do you mean?
10
SPEAKER_01
Oh, was he problematic?
10
SPEAKER_01
The new mascot, a little blonde girl named Dolly.
10
SPEAKER_00
No!
10
SPEAKER_01
Guys, how the fuck you gonna rename Big Boy Dolly?
10
SPEAKER_00
Wait, are you serious?
10
SPEAKER_01
The iconic Big Boy mascot is getting the boot after almost 90 years.
10
SPEAKER_00
No!
10
SPEAKER_02
What a dumb fucking decision.
10
SPEAKER_01
Still be named Big Boy, but a new mascot will be introduced.
10
SPEAKER_01
It ll be named Big Boy, but there ll be a little girl named Dolly.
10
SPEAKER_02
What?
10
SPEAKER_02
Who on earth greenlit this idea?
10
SPEAKER_00
Also, why?
10
SPEAKER_00
I mean, oh my God.
10
SPEAKER_02
They re like, we gotta keep up with the times.
10
SPEAKER_00
But then why wouldn t they change the name?
10
SPEAKER_02
To Little Dollies.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_00
Wait, we thought this was some sort of prank.
10
SPEAKER_02
Well, the big boy statue has been stolen multiple times.
10
SPEAKER_02
It is a common prank.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, we thought it was Burbank High.
10
SPEAKER_00
We blamed it on Burbank High.
10
SPEAKER_02
That would make sense.
10
SPEAKER_00
Fuck, wait till I tell everyone this.
10
SPEAKER_02
Were the old cars still there?
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
10
SPEAKER_02
Now everything is crumbled.
10
SPEAKER_02
What are they thinking?
10
SPEAKER_02
You can t have a restaurant named Big Boy and then switch to a girl.
10
SPEAKER_00
To a little dolly.
10
SPEAKER_02
Oh my God, are they trying to keep up with something?
10
SPEAKER_00
It sounds like they are, but they re not doing a good job in general, because then you should just change the whole thing.
10
SPEAKER_02
Scrap everything.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_02
Oh my God.
10
SPEAKER_02
Okay, well, I don t wanna get too hung up on that.
10
SPEAKER_00
I m shocked.
10
SPEAKER_01
It says he hasn t been canceled for bad behavior.
10
SPEAKER_00
Is Dolly Bob s wife like?
10
SPEAKER_02
Well, there is cartoons.
10
SPEAKER_02
There s like a whole cartoon series with Big Boy in it, like on the mats.
10
SPEAKER_02
when you did Big Boys, they had cartoons and known characters.
10
SPEAKER_02
She clearly was probably one of the characters in the Big Boy comic strip.
10
SPEAKER_00
So then what are they doing?
10
SPEAKER_02
I don t, guys, this is insane.
10
SPEAKER_02
I think they re just desperate.
10
SPEAKER_02
I guess I feel sad that they re getting desperate.
10
SPEAKER_00
No, the iconic Big Boys, oh!
10
SPEAKER_00
Oh, this was 2020.
10
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that s when most of this was happening.
10
SPEAKER_00
That s what you re seeing?
10
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
10
SPEAKER_00
Oh.
10
SPEAKER_02
And they just now got around to it four years later.
10
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that doesn t make sense, because it s,
10
SPEAKER_00
It says Bob s Big Boy recently announced a new mascot, a more obscure character from the nearly century-old diner s history, to help launch a new item.
10
SPEAKER_00
The blonde ponytail Dolly, who made her first appearance in Bob s Big Boy canon via the restaurant chain s comic books, is now the face of the brand in a limited-run fried chicken sandwich, but not everywhere.
10
SPEAKER_00
It says the Downey location s staying the course with Big Boy.
10
SPEAKER_00
I don t think this is why
10
SPEAKER_00
Bob was missing.
10
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
10
SPEAKER_00
I think this was a miss.
10
SPEAKER_02
We got quick to conclude.
10
SPEAKER_02
We d quick to jump into conclusions.
10
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
10
SPEAKER_00
All right.
10
Anywho.
11
SPEAKER_00
big boys okay at the Shane Gillis concert first arriving walking through a big crowd of people and a big dude is with a gal and he comes up to me and he s big intimidating looking he steps right into my face he goes you eat ass what yes no yes
11
SPEAKER_00
And my first thought was like, oh, this dude wants to get down right now.
11
SPEAKER_00
Like he s coming right at me and I m looking at him, but then he has half a smile on his face.
11
SPEAKER_00
And I realized, oh my God, he s talking about chips.
11
SPEAKER_00
You eat ass.
11
SPEAKER_00
Everyone eats ass.
11
SPEAKER_00
Everyone does not eat everyone s ass.
11
SPEAKER_00
He s, he is to me, but it,
11
SPEAKER_00
It was a crazy four seconds where I m like a stranger stepping up to me and it s go time right now.
11
SPEAKER_00
Didn t bump into him.
11
SPEAKER_00
Didn t whatever.
11
SPEAKER_00
And then I was like, oh my God.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yes, of course I eat ass fist bump.
11
SPEAKER_00
Everyone s happy.
11
SPEAKER_00
We walk away.
11
SPEAKER_00
I kind of got, I created my own problem here.
11
SPEAKER_01
If you had punched him.
11
SPEAKER_00
I literally thought that, like what if I just panicked and fucking cold cocked him and then he s on the ground and then it hit me, he loved chips.
11
SPEAKER_00
I would have been like completely devastated.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, this is a good lesson.
11
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God, Kristen watched the whole thing happen.
11
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
11
SPEAKER_00
You eat ass, stranger right in your face, big guy.
11
SPEAKER_01
That s crazy.
11
SPEAKER_01
Okay, well, this is for James.
11
SPEAKER_00
This is for James.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
11
SPEAKER_00
Our neurosurgeon neuroscience professor.
11
SPEAKER_00
Compassion.
11
SPEAKER_00
Compassion.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
11
SPEAKER_00
Manifesting.
11
SPEAKER_01
Okay, so he said that BTS, the band.
11
SPEAKER_00
The Korean band.
11
SPEAKER_01
Mm-hmm, made a song based on his book.
11
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yes, yes, yes.
11
SPEAKER_01
Magic Shop.
11
SPEAKER_01
So I have it.
11
SPEAKER_00
Oh, you have a taste of it.
11
SPEAKER_00
Well, make sure you hold up to the mouth of the singers on screen.
11
SPEAKER_00
How does Dodie know this is about his song?
11
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
11
SPEAKER_01
It says magic.
11
SPEAKER_01
It s called magic.
11
SPEAKER_00
Oh, Coldplay s got a song called magic, too.
11
SPEAKER_01
Oh, stop.
11
SPEAKER_01
I ll let you hear it.
11
SPEAKER_01
I ll let you hear it.
11
SPEAKER_01
What did I do?
11
SPEAKER_00
I said I d win.
11
SPEAKER_00
I couldn t believe it.
11
SPEAKER_00
Will I be able to win?
11
SPEAKER_00
Did we make this miracle, not a miracle?
11
I m here.
11
You came to me.
11
SPEAKER_00
I heard I do believe in galaxy.
11
SPEAKER_00
Is there a little bit of English in there too?
11
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
11
SPEAKER_00
All right.
11
SPEAKER_00
That sounded good.
11
SPEAKER_00
I can see why they re a hit.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
It s very catchy.
11
SPEAKER_01
They re a big deal.
11
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
11
SPEAKER_01
So then he said.
11
SPEAKER_00
Another thing he said.
11
SPEAKER_01
He also said, well, I looked up the average pay of a neurosurgeon.
11
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
11
SPEAKER_01
It s by state.
11
SPEAKER_00
It s highly regional, isn t it?
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
So it says in California, it says annual salary top earners is 394,761.
11
SPEAKER_01
Seems a little lower than I thought.
11
SPEAKER_01
Me too.
11
SPEAKER_01
I think of a neurosurgeon as making millions a year.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
Every time I look these up, they re very confusing.
11
SPEAKER_00
I feel like because it s an average, somehow, I just don t know.
11
SPEAKER_00
Because you listen to like Dr. Death.
11
SPEAKER_01
Wait, on salary.com, it says the average neurosurgeon salary in LA.
11
SPEAKER_01
is 754,000.
11
SPEAKER_00
That sounds a lot more.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
Because I remember leaving high school and learning that the highest paid career at that moment was an anesthesiologist that was 700 grand.
11
SPEAKER_00
And that was in 93.
11
SPEAKER_00
Right.
11
SPEAKER_01
Also, I think that was not real.
11
SPEAKER_00
And also I know these doctors around LA, they have, they live in $12 million houses.
11
SPEAKER_00
They re clearly making millions a year.
11
SPEAKER_00
I sure wish Dodie would have told us exactly what he made.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, he didn t.
11
SPEAKER_00
He just... He said he s doing fine.
11
SPEAKER_01
In this episode, he brings up equanimity.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
11
SPEAKER_01
And equanimity is one of my favorite words.
11
SPEAKER_00
Talk about it more, because I just recently looked it up.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
I had it wrong, kind of.
11
SPEAKER_01
Oh, you did?
11
SPEAKER_00
I thought of it more as equality.
11
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah, no.
11
SPEAKER_00
But it s not, it s nothing, it s an emotional state.
11
SPEAKER_01
It s like ease.
11
SPEAKER_00
Contentment.
11
SPEAKER_01
Peace.
11
SPEAKER_01
I first learned about it, though, because Dave Chappelle had a special called Equanimity and the Bird Revelation.
11
SPEAKER_00
Oh.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
That s where you fell in love with it?
11
SPEAKER_01
That s when I first found it, and then I liked it, and I looked it up, and then I forgot what it meant, and I looked it up again, and I forgot what it meant, and I looked it up again, and then I committed it to memory.
11
SPEAKER_00
That s what they say.
11
SPEAKER_00
If you want to own a word, forget it three times.
11
SPEAKER_01
They do say that.
11
SPEAKER_00
That s the popular saying.
11
SPEAKER_01
Today on Connections, we both made.
11
SPEAKER_00
A blender.
11
SPEAKER_01
Same blender.
11
SPEAKER_00
It was the same blender?
11
SPEAKER_01
There s no way for me to know if it s the same blender, but it s the same.
11
SPEAKER_00
Color.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_01
All green and one purple.
11
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I bet it was the same.
11
SPEAKER_00
It was like maybe handful.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
One of those.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
Handful.
11
SPEAKER_00
They were, I had never used, I ve never heard a handful used in the way they were.
11
SPEAKER_01
Oh really?
11
SPEAKER_01
I have.
11
SPEAKER_01
There s such a handful.
11
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I have.
11
SPEAKER_00
You re right.
11
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
Thanks for correcting.
11
SPEAKER_01
Why not?
11
SPEAKER_00
Why not?
11
SPEAKER_00
Oh, should we admit what we thought?
11
SPEAKER_01
Oh.
11
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s very gross.
11
SPEAKER_01
It s so gross.
11
SPEAKER_00
It s so gross.
11
SPEAKER_01
And it s not true.
11
I don t know.
11
SPEAKER_01
It s not, but let s say.
11
SPEAKER_00
Okay, three of the 12 words, one was ace.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that one s a stretch.
11
SPEAKER_00
Armchair expert, that s the abbreviation.
11
SPEAKER_01
I know, but not very many people are thinking about it like that, but okay, okay.
11
SPEAKER_00
Ace.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
Expert.
11
SPEAKER_01
Dax.
11
SPEAKER_00
Dax and soulmate.
11
SPEAKER_01
Dax was not one, but yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
It wasn t.
11
SPEAKER_01
Soulmate, expert, and ace.
11
SPEAKER_00
And ace.
11
SPEAKER_00
And then I thought, could she be, but listen, I wouldn t have ever had this crazy thought if we hadn t just talked about her for a very long time.
11
SPEAKER_00
Every day, yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
And I run into people often that we talk about.
11
SPEAKER_00
It generally gets to them.
11
SPEAKER_00
That s why I m very careful.
11
SPEAKER_01
It can get to people.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
11
SPEAKER_00
How we talk about anyone.
11
SPEAKER_00
Cause it can get to them.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
So when I saw that, I thought, well, we just really did an hour on why not?
11
SPEAKER_00
Is it possible?
11
SPEAKER_00
She s winking back.
11
SPEAKER_01
Right.
11
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
11
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
11
SPEAKER_01
So I side texted you in the morning and I said, expert and soulmate are on.
11
SPEAKER_00
You missed Ace.
11
SPEAKER_00
That s what was crazy to me.
11
SPEAKER_01
Well I saw it, but that to me felt like a stretch.
11
SPEAKER_00
A lot of people call it Ace.
11
SPEAKER_00
Rob, don t you associate Ace with our show?
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
I see it in the comments a lot.
11
SPEAKER_00
People call it Ace.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
I like AE better.
11
SPEAKER_00
I generally say AE as well.
11
SPEAKER_00
If I m like too lazy to say it, I say AE.
11
SPEAKER_00
Like, oh, the AE shows are on these days and then.
11
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
11
SPEAKER_00
But ace is really, really common.
11
SPEAKER_01
Okay, okay, okay.
11
SPEAKER_00
And it s very, it s the most accurate.
11
SPEAKER_00
Well, actually it s not.
11
SPEAKER_00
It s when people have armchairs, two words.
11
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
11
SPEAKER_00
Right.
11
SPEAKER_01
It s inaccurate, but that s fine.
11
SPEAKER_01
I also saw it, but I thought that s narcissistic to look at that and think it s connected.
11
SPEAKER_00
Yes, it s problematic.
11
SPEAKER_00
I owned it, and then I put it on the chain.
11
SPEAKER_00
I hadn t read yours.
11
SPEAKER_01
That s what I wanna say, that s what I wanna say.
11
SPEAKER_01
So I sent to you, oh wow,
11
SPEAKER_01
soulmate and expert are on today s connections.
11
SPEAKER_01
And I thought that was just gonna be like a fun little sidebar for us.
11
SPEAKER_01
Great.
11
SPEAKER_01
Then you on the chain, you bring it to the chain.
11
SPEAKER_01
And then I was like, oh no.
11
SPEAKER_00
Well, hold on a second though.
11
SPEAKER_00
So you know what happened for me is I do connections before I look at my texts.
11
SPEAKER_00
I don t look at texts, period.
11
SPEAKER_00
I don t open it up.
11
SPEAKER_00
I finish journaling.
11
SPEAKER_00
I go straight to the toilet and open up connections.
11
SPEAKER_00
Or if I have to post, I post, then I open up Connections.
11
SPEAKER_00
At the end of Connections, I look at my text, and then I look at my email.
11
SPEAKER_00
That s the order.
11
SPEAKER_00
So what I first did is Connections, and then I immediately send my results.
11
SPEAKER_00
So now I m sending a text to everybody.
11
SPEAKER_00
I still haven t looked at my text.
11
SPEAKER_00
And then I write, and I own it.
11
SPEAKER_00
I say, at the risk of sounding really narcissistic, I feel like Wino winked at us today.
11
SPEAKER_00
I was relieved to say Max said he thought it.
11
SPEAKER_01
I was so nervous about what any of them were going to say.
11
SPEAKER_00
I knew you would be.
11
SPEAKER_01
And Max did then a nice thing and said... I don t think that s Max s personality.
11
SPEAKER_01
No, he...
11
SPEAKER_00
I m feeling bad for me.
11
SPEAKER_00
No, for me.
11
SPEAKER_00
Why would he feel bad for you?
11
SPEAKER_00
I m the one who said it.
11
SPEAKER_01
But it s about both of us.
11
SPEAKER_01
So he probably.
11
SPEAKER_00
Well, I was the only one that was being a narcissist.
11
SPEAKER_01
I know, but.
11
SPEAKER_00
So if he was relieving my narcissism.
11
SPEAKER_01
But he couldn t be like, no, it includes both of us.
11
SPEAKER_01
It s a nice thing.
11
SPEAKER_01
I think, look.
11
SPEAKER_00
Listen, I acknowledge that it was I know I know also I think and see now why now You ve if you were intending to wink at us and have fun now You ve fucked up my whole life because now I sound like a complete narcissist Monica thinks I embarrassed a lot
12
SPEAKER_00
both of us in the chain.
12
SPEAKER_00
So do better, like hit it right on the nose next time, please.
12
SPEAKER_01
I, that s how I felt.
12
SPEAKER_00
I was like, we even give her the words right now, implant dyslexic.
12
SPEAKER_01
I thought if cheerleading.
12
SPEAKER_01
If Cherry was on there, it would have been a bullseye, it would have been a duh.
12
SPEAKER_00
A duh, duh, duh.
12
SPEAKER_01
Even if the words didn t go together, in fact, they probably shouldn t go together, right?
12
SPEAKER_00
No, they wouldn t go together.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
We don t deserve that, I wanna be clear.
12
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
12
SPEAKER_00
We don t deserve to be a category.
12
SPEAKER_00
Right.
12
SPEAKER_00
I don t think that at all.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yes, I agree, but it s just, it s like.
12
SPEAKER_00
Wink, wink.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
Wyna plays too.
12
SPEAKER_01
I don t, I just think Cherry would have been more.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_01
And Dax and Monica would have been pretty clear.
12
SPEAKER_00
No, you can t put that on there.
12
SPEAKER_00
That won t work for anything.
12
SPEAKER_00
No, Monica could, because if it was Monica.
12
SPEAKER_00
Friends.
12
SPEAKER_00
No.
12
SPEAKER_00
Well, yeah, that could work, but it would be Monica, then it would be Wedding, then it would be Saturate,
12
SPEAKER_00
And then it would be sunshine.
12
SPEAKER_00
It would be beginning with days of the week.
12
SPEAKER_01
Oh, which she did do that once.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yes, so M-O-N for Monica would be Monday.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but she didn t do Monica that day.
12
SPEAKER_00
She didn t do Monica.
12
SPEAKER_00
So here s what you need to do.
12
SPEAKER_00
Dyslexia, Monica.
12
SPEAKER_01
Carrie.
12
SPEAKER_00
What if she does narcissist?
12
SPEAKER_01
She can if that, yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
She should.
12
SPEAKER_00
But what I think was a sweet wink has now ruined my reputation.
12
SPEAKER_01
No, it was fine.
12
SPEAKER_01
I just was also like, why couldn t that just be a sidebar between me and you?
12
SPEAKER_01
Because then it s not risking narcissism or arrogance if it s just between us.
12
SPEAKER_01
But when you bring it to the world, then it is.
12
SPEAKER_00
But this is the thing, and this is where we differ.
12
SPEAKER_00
I m not terribly ashamed of my thoughts.
12
SPEAKER_00
Like, I don t think I need to hide that.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s fair.
12
SPEAKER_00
Like, that s the truth of what I thought.
12
SPEAKER_00
And if you think I m a bad person or narcissist because of it,
12
SPEAKER_00
I can live with that.
12
SPEAKER_00
Like, I d rather just share my real thoughts with this group I like sharing my thoughts with on the puzzle that day.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I get that.
12
SPEAKER_00
And I ll take the risk, I guess.
12
SPEAKER_00
But regardless, she needs to be a little clearer so that, because this has happened a couple times, at least with other podcasts.
12
SPEAKER_00
We ve had like back and forths.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_01
No, it s possible.
12
SPEAKER_01
That s why I sent it to you.
12
SPEAKER_01
I was saying, hey, this is interesting, but I wouldn t have said that to them.
12
SPEAKER_00
but you re dealing with much more 20-year friendship constraints than I am because this is an old friendship circle.
12
SPEAKER_00
I think you re probably more mindful of never seeming like you ve gotten too big for your britches.
12
SPEAKER_01
That might be true.
12
SPEAKER_00
Because it would tinker with an existing dynamic.
12
SPEAKER_01
That s probably true.
12
SPEAKER_00
I think I m a really good participant.
12
SPEAKER_01
You are, you are, you are.
12
SPEAKER_00
I m trying to make everyone shine, and when it s my day to shine, I m gonna let it shine on me.
12
SPEAKER_00
When Wynna winks.
12
SPEAKER_00
We don t know it.
12
SPEAKER_00
I also was good to include them, because it s true, what we were talking about Wynna involved them.
12
SPEAKER_01
It does involve them.
12
SPEAKER_00
So if it was a wink, they had some ownership over it, truthfully.
12
SPEAKER_01
I agree.
12
SPEAKER_00
So I wanted them to share in that, like, guys, I think we may have Wynna, it was definitely like, guys, we may have Wynna s ear, guys, us.
12
SPEAKER_01
I know, I agree.
12
SPEAKER_01
I don t think you did anything wrong or I don t think you did a bad job.
12
SPEAKER_01
I just didn t understand it because we re different.
12
SPEAKER_01
And we re different in a way that I m not above the thought.
12
SPEAKER_01
That s what I m saying.
12
SPEAKER_01
I had the same thought.
12
SPEAKER_01
That s why I shared it with you.
12
SPEAKER_01
But I am picking and choosing when to share those thoughts and when not to.
12
SPEAKER_01
And I do think you re right.
12
SPEAKER_01
I probably, maybe the old existing friendship dynamic, but also just in general, I think I m a little more in my head about humility.
12
SPEAKER_01
In general.
12
SPEAKER_00
So that you ll get, because you ll get excluded.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s old.
12
SPEAKER_01
It s like old stuff.
12
SPEAKER_01
I don t want a tall poppy, I guess.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, tall poppy.
12
SPEAKER_00
And I m already the tallest in that group.
12
SPEAKER_00
So it s like, I can t even be small poppy.
12
SPEAKER_01
You are, but it s close.
12
SPEAKER_00
Don t even suggest it.
12
SPEAKER_01
Okay, I won t suggest it.
12
SPEAKER_00
because I ll be over there in the next five.
12
SPEAKER_01
I think you guys are the same height.
12
SPEAKER_00
Well, I thought you were going to say, I think you re the second tallest.
12
SPEAKER_01
Well, you might be.
12
SPEAKER_00
Listen, I m the first to say Max has better thighs than me.
12
SPEAKER_01
Should I ask how tall he is?
12
SPEAKER_00
So it s not like I m not giving it up where it deserves to be given up, but Max is not taller than me.
12
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
12
SPEAKER_01
I m just going to, oh, I forgot.
12
SPEAKER_01
I turned my phone off.
12
SPEAKER_01
Do you want me to hit the chain?
12
SPEAKER_01
Can you send to the connections chain?
12
SPEAKER_00
Max, how tall are you?
12
SPEAKER_00
Great, great, great.
12
SPEAKER_00
Hi guys.
12
SPEAKER_00
Come, uh, we re having a bit of a debate.
12
SPEAKER_00
No, I don t need to say all that.
12
SPEAKER_00
That s triggering.
12
SPEAKER_00
That s me.
12
SPEAKER_00
Tall popping.
12
SPEAKER_00
I m just going to say, Hey, come a max or Cali come a how tall is max?
12
SPEAKER_00
Question mark.
12
SPEAKER_00
Okay, TBD, but I m pretty sure he s- My first question if I were Max or Callie is why?
12
SPEAKER_01
Well, of course.
12
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_01
We ll tell them after.
12
SPEAKER_01
Anywho, so how did we get on?
12
SPEAKER_01
Okay, so Wyna, if you want to do 6-2, that s also- That won t work either, Monica.
12
SPEAKER_00
I feel like I need to explain how the game works.
12
SPEAKER_01
I m doing pretty good for someone who doesn t understand the game.
12
SPEAKER_01
Six, two, five feet and a half inch.
12
SPEAKER_00
A Virgo, Capricorn.
12
SPEAKER_01
Oh yeah, Pisces.
12
SPEAKER_00
Who s Pisces?
12
SPEAKER_01
Callie.
12
SPEAKER_00
Okay, the second work.
12
SPEAKER_00
And by the way, they re not on Armchair Expert.
12
SPEAKER_00
I m sorry, but it s not a nod to our chain.
12
SPEAKER_00
It s a nod to the show.
12
SPEAKER_01
Why can t it be a nod to the chain?
12
SPEAKER_00
Oh, fuck.
12
SPEAKER_00
Netflix, then it s law firm, Max s law firm.
12
SPEAKER_00
This is nuts.
12
SPEAKER_01
That would be great.
12
SPEAKER_01
Ace, Netflix, Shapiro, and whatever.
12
SPEAKER_00
Hoffman, Shapiro, Galaxy, and Suns.
12
SPEAKER_01
Maybe we do, okay, we re getting really off.
12
SPEAKER_00
Okay, anyway.
12
SPEAKER_00
Everyone stop listening.
12
SPEAKER_01
Anywho, humility, humility, ding, ding, ding, James.
12
SPEAKER_00
Humility.
12
SPEAKER_00
We talk about it.
12
SPEAKER_00
Okay, yeah.
12
SPEAKER_00
We re not displaying a lot of it.
12
SPEAKER_01
Well, I like to keep my arrogance to- Confined.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, confined.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
12
SPEAKER_01
Oil subsidies.
12
SPEAKER_01
Every year, oil, gas, and coal companies harvest billions of dollars in federal subsidies.
12
SPEAKER_01
And Walmart, giant retailer, has received more than $1 billion in economic development subsidies from state and local governments across the country.
12
SPEAKER_00
I think he was also adding into that that they re supplementing their employees  life through Medicare and food stamps and stuff.
12
SPEAKER_00
I think he was saying that a lot of the employees are also on government assistance because they don t make enough money.
12
SPEAKER_00
So he sees that as a subsidy as well.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, he s basically saying these companies that make so much money, their workers aren t getting paid enough.
12
SPEAKER_00
And then the government has to step in.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
12
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
12
SPEAKER_01
He said that a heart puts out energy five to six feet outside your body.
12
SPEAKER_01
And there is a psychology today article that says the heart s energy is said to reach about three feet outside the physical body.
12
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
12
SPEAKER_01
Oh, what d they say?
12
SPEAKER_01
Six.
12
SPEAKER_00
This is a lie.
12
SPEAKER_01
It s not, it s not.
12
SPEAKER_00
This is a, this is shameful.
12
SPEAKER_00
They re claiming he s six, four.
12
SPEAKER_01
I think he is.
12
SPEAKER_00
And then Max wrote and a half.
12
SPEAKER_00
No.
12
SPEAKER_01
Dax, I. I don t think that s.
12
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
12
SPEAKER_00
Okay, we ll see.
12
SPEAKER_01
I m sorry.
12
SPEAKER_00
I m never going to.
12
SPEAKER_00
Well, and what I know now is I m never going to see him again intentionally.
12
SPEAKER_00
So I can live in my fantasy.
12
SPEAKER_00
I will say, you want to put second tallest as I want to be clear about this.
12
SPEAKER_00
I actually, I don t give a fuck who s taller than me or not.
12
SPEAKER_00
I really don t, but I really remember when I meet people that are taller than me.
12
SPEAKER_00
Cause I rarely meet people that are taller than me.
12
SPEAKER_00
That s just a matter of fact.
12
SPEAKER_00
It s very rare that I m talking to someone looking up at them, but I just was with Walton.
12
SPEAKER_00
Walton s taller than me.
12
SPEAKER_00
And it s very memorable.
12
SPEAKER_01
He s just not, he s not that much.
12
SPEAKER_01
He s just a tiny bit.
12
SPEAKER_01
So to you, you were probably like, we re at the same height.
12
SPEAKER_00
To be honest, we only hung out in a field.
12
SPEAKER_00
Ask him his shoe size.
12
SPEAKER_00
I may have been standing a little uphill because it was uneven field.
12
SPEAKER_00
So maybe it s on me.
12
SPEAKER_00
Maybe I was just like, he was in a little bit of a depression and I was standing up on a little bit of a taller bit of grass, soil.
12
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, well, Callie s taller than me, and you re taller than me, and Max is taller than me, and Robbie s taller than me.
12
SPEAKER_00
You would never remember that someone s taller than you, because just everyone s taller than you.
12
SPEAKER_00
But I bet you remember people who are shorter than you.
12
SPEAKER_00
Does that stick out?
12
SPEAKER_01
Okay, yes, but actually, if someone s exactly my height, I also think they re shorter than me, because I m so used to everyone being taller than me.
12
SPEAKER_00
Right, so if you re just even looking level, it feels tall.
12
SPEAKER_00
It s weird.
12
SPEAKER_01
Well, glad we cleared that.
12
SPEAKER_01
That was a good fact to clear up.
12
SPEAKER_00
I m just gonna write to them, that didn t go my way.
12
SPEAKER_01
okay well i think that s gonna be it that s gonna cover everything oh you know what i really liked what and i guess this is a ding ding ding to your
13
SPEAKER_02
story about the semi and you not getting involved.
13
SPEAKER_02
He says between stimulus and response, there s a pause and within that pause lies your freedom.
13
SPEAKER_02
And the goal is to extend that pause.
13
SPEAKER_02
And I really liked that.
13
SPEAKER_00
It s really good.
13
SPEAKER_00
It s really good.
13
SPEAKER_00
It s funny because when that semi thing happened, it really shook Kristen up.
13
SPEAKER_00
She s like, I really didn t like that because it was loud and it was scary.
13
SPEAKER_02
Scary, yeah.
13
SPEAKER_00
And I was just really conscious of the fact of how different our perspectives in life and the roles we ve assigned ourselves.
13
SPEAKER_00
So she very much saw herself as someone that could get run over by a semi.
13
SPEAKER_00
And I very much am like, there s a man acting out of control.
13
SPEAKER_00
It s my job to stop it.
13
SPEAKER_00
It s so weird.
13
SPEAKER_00
It s the same event.
13
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, of course.
13
SPEAKER_00
And we re having way different like- What did Delta, how did she feel about it?
13
SPEAKER_00
She was in a fucking cold coma.
13
SPEAKER_00
What happened?
13
SPEAKER_00
She made us explain it like 20 times and we were annoyed because we were already annoyed and everyone was at wit s end.
13
SPEAKER_00
Oh boy.
13
SPEAKER_00
It was a harbinger of bad things.
13
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I, that s, like, one time outside of All Time, this guy had, like, this crazy road rage and he got out of his car and he bent, remember?
13
SPEAKER_00
I remember this, yeah.
13
SPEAKER_02
And it really scared me so much for, like, I m still scared of it.
13
SPEAKER_00
Right.
13
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and I had a different frustration with it.
13
SPEAKER_00
I was like, oh, I fucking blew it.
13
SPEAKER_00
I could ve stopped that.
13
SPEAKER_00
I was supposed to stop that.
13
SPEAKER_00
I saw that coming.
13
SPEAKER_00
It was my job to stop that.
13
SPEAKER_02
I bet it was, Max probably feels that way because he s so tall.
13
SPEAKER_00
Shut up.
13
SPEAKER_00
Shut your mouth.
13
SPEAKER_02
All right, well, that s it love you