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I find that when you go on those journeys, there s something about the badness in it that you have to face in yourself, and it s whether you take the lesson.
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And if you don t take that lesson, you will meet it again.
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Oscar-winning actor.
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Writer, director, producer.
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Please welcome Daniel Kanuya!
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Anything I m doing now, I ve been told I can t do.
0
SPEAKER_05
I ve been told I can t act.
0
SPEAKER_05
I ve got to talk to some people, and they were like, you ain t gonna make it.
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SPEAKER_05
I was like, well, I think I can.
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Before we jump into this episode, I d like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed.
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The number one health and wellness podcast.
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Jay Shetty.
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Jay Shetty.
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Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose.
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Thank you so much for coming back to listen to another episode.
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Today s guest is an actor, a writer, producer.
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SPEAKER_04
You ll know him from so many of his blockbuster successes.
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I can t wait for you to listen to this interview with Daniel Kaluuya.
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I always like starting with this question because I think I m intrigued to see where you take it.
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SPEAKER_04
What would you say is your earliest childhood memory that defines who you are today?
0
SPEAKER_05
There s one, yeah, there was one.
0
SPEAKER_05
I grew up quite a fat kid, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_05
And then we used to go scouts, cubs and scouts.
0
SPEAKER_05
You go into like, I don t know, some random place in the countryside, go into a camping or something.
0
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And then like, there s potholes, you know about potholes?
0
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Where you go in there, boom, boom, boom.
0
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It s like, I m running through this pothole, yeah.
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And then like, I m doing this pothole, boom, boom, going in.
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And like, everyone starts laughing, cause I m fat.
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SPEAKER_05
There was like, oh, like, Dan s not gonna fit, Dan s not gonna fit.
0
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And I got in there, and then halfway through, it gets narrower and narrower.
0
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And I proper didn t, and they looked in, bunch of kids were like, I must ve been,
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Nine, eight, they were like, he s filled with the whole thing.
0
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They re just laughing, laughing, laughing, laughing, laughing.
0
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And then I was like, all right, cool.
0
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I can t really go back.
0
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So it s only really, and I m actually have filled it.
0
SPEAKER_05
So then I was like, all right, cool.
0
SPEAKER_05
And I just found a way to, I was just like, I knew how to like change my body and go, I m gonna get out.
0
SPEAKER_05
I m gonna do it.
0
SPEAKER_05
I m gonna do it.
0
SPEAKER_05
I m gonna do it.
0
SPEAKER_05
I m gonna do it.
0
SPEAKER_05
And then I realized they were laughing.
0
SPEAKER_05
And then as I was getting closer and closer to the exit, they just stopped laughing.
0
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They stopped laughing.
0
SPEAKER_05
They stopped laughing.
0
SPEAKER_05
And then by the end they clapped.
0
SPEAKER_05
And I think after that, I was like, right, yeah.
0
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I don t know, I look back and go, I think it really changed how I saw everything in my life.
0
SPEAKER_05
I go, bruv, what are you to me?
0
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You know what I m saying?
0
SPEAKER_05
It s like, I kind of felt, had that energy.
0
SPEAKER_05
I was like, just push through, just do what you re supposed to do.
0
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Just do what you re supposed to do and you ll get to the end.
0
SPEAKER_05
And people that will say things, that will tell you, say you re weird, say you re odd, by the end of it, not that they ll clap, you can make them,
0
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I don t know, it doesn t matter about them.
0
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It just matters about you getting there.
0
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Do you know what I m saying?
0
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And I think a few years ago before then, I really cared about the clap.
0
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I really cared, like, I m gonna make you clap.
0
SPEAKER_05
I m pissed, but I m gonna make you clap.
0
SPEAKER_05
I think in that moment, I saw my character.
0
SPEAKER_05
I saw what I m actually about in that moment.
0
SPEAKER_05
And yeah, and then they just respected me.
0
SPEAKER_05
At the end of it, it was what, I gained respect.
0
SPEAKER_05
So yeah.
0
SPEAKER_04
Yeah, and you think that that still applies today?
0
SPEAKER_05
In all ways, yeah man.
0
SPEAKER_05
Do you know how many people say you can t do something?
0
SPEAKER_05
Everything s made up.
0
SPEAKER_05
It doesn t even make sense.
0
SPEAKER_04
What have you been told that you couldn t do?
0
SPEAKER_05
Name it.
0
SPEAKER_05
Like anything I m doing now, I ve been told I can t do.
0
SPEAKER_05
I ve been told I can t act.
0
SPEAKER_05
I wouldn t be able to make a career out of it.
0
SPEAKER_05
Connections is on Parkway, like in Camden.
0
SPEAKER_05
They were saying, yeah, they were like saying, and my mum was just stressed, like, she said, you want to act?
0
SPEAKER_05
God, they could talk to some people, and they were like, you ain t gonna make it.
0
SPEAKER_05
I said, well, I think I can.
0
SPEAKER_05
I must have been 15.
0
SPEAKER_05
I said, can you not?
0
SPEAKER_05
She said, no, no, no.
0
SPEAKER_05
So it s all that kind of stuff, like you re consistently kind of told that like, it won t happen.
0
SPEAKER_05
And I just didn t believe that.
0
SPEAKER_05
So that s why I really would keep it secret, what I was doing and my dreams and my hopes, I think hopes like what I see, like if I can see it, that means I can do it.
0
SPEAKER_05
So it s more that, like everything like you re told you can t do, even like being away from race, even the class that I ve come from, like they re saying, oh, you can t do that.
0
SPEAKER_05
I m like, what are you talking about?
0
SPEAKER_05
It s nuts.
0
SPEAKER_05
Like I just, I ve always just been like, but then that was very much the mentality of my school.
0
SPEAKER_05
Like it was like, all right, cool.
0
SPEAKER_05
You ain t got money.
0
SPEAKER_05
All right, cool.
0
SPEAKER_05
Let s sell chocolate bars.
0
SPEAKER_05
All right, cool.
0
SPEAKER_05
Let s sell crisps.
0
SPEAKER_05
All right, cool.
0
SPEAKER_05
It s just like, you got to make it work no matter what.
0
SPEAKER_05
So I ve always come, I feel like I ve come from that cloth.
0
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_04
Did you find that keeping it secret was useful?
0
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, cause it meant that I was able to fail in private and just grow at my own pace and have it and understand basic what it was.
0
SPEAKER_05
I realized in hindsight and active and right and all this kind of stuff.
0
SPEAKER_05
I realized I found what it meant to me.
0
SPEAKER_05
I found what my definition of it is.
0
SPEAKER_05
I found my style.
0
SPEAKER_05
I found what I liked.
0
SPEAKER_05
That was, so it was mine.
0
SPEAKER_05
It wasn t like, oh, I got it from here.
0
SPEAKER_05
I got it from there.
0
SPEAKER_05
It was, no, this is what I think.
0
SPEAKER_05
This is how I ve got to this.
0
SPEAKER_05
So that s like why I m happy I did it.
0
SPEAKER_05
Cause I felt like in hindsight, I felt I was a bit too ahead of people that I was around in terms of what I was focused on.
0
SPEAKER_05
Cause it s quite odd if I think about, think back, I was like, yeah, no, I m gonna do this.
0
SPEAKER_05
Is that what you mean?
0
SPEAKER_05
It s like no one in my family s doing it.
0
SPEAKER_05
No one s doing it.
0
SPEAKER_05
But I just think I can.
0
SPEAKER_05
So I think it s that, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_04
Where did that belief come from at that age, at 15, to go, I can, even though no one s saying it?
0
SPEAKER_04
Where did that inspiration come from?
0
SPEAKER_04
Was it from what you were watching?
0
SPEAKER_05
I was watching Fresh Prince, I was watching Wayne s Brothers, I was watching like, I don t know, Sponge, no, Sponge was a bit past my... Simpsons maybe?
0
SPEAKER_05
Simpsons, Ed, Edd n Eddy, like I was watching live.
0
SPEAKER_04
Ed, Edd n Eddy.
0
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, I was watching live, like do I say that?
0
SPEAKER_05
I wasn t really like, I don t know, I just believed, I don t know, I just kind of was like,
0
SPEAKER_05
No, I don t believe you.
0
SPEAKER_05
I don t know you.
0
SPEAKER_05
Like back in the day, I was like, I remember John Major.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was like, they said he told me to do something.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m like, but I don t know him.
1
SPEAKER_01
How can someone I don t know tell me what to do?
1
SPEAKER_01
Kind of nuts.
1
SPEAKER_01
If I know somebody, like Jermaine is like, so that s why I was like, I just always.
1
SPEAKER_01
No, I realized, I think I just, I m blessed I have faith.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think I just have faith.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I realized, I read something the other day, and I think the difference between faith and delusion is God.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I m not saying like, oh God, it s just like, I just have faith.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like I just had faith.
1
SPEAKER_01
I just believed.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think maybe I saw my family.
1
SPEAKER_01
doing amazing things, like not an amazing things in a sense that like making something work or going on for a holiday or they just didn t accept.
1
SPEAKER_01
They were actually done, like say they wanted to act.
1
SPEAKER_01
All right, cool, you can t afford that, but we can do this.
1
SPEAKER_01
They just pushed on.
1
SPEAKER_01
They didn t let the environment or the boundaries define what they thought was possible in their mind.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I think it was that bit.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I love that.
1
SPEAKER_02
I love hearing that your parents were saying, yes, and it wasn t like, no, but it was yes, and right.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s just like, yo, what, like, how are we going to like, how are we going to do this?
1
SPEAKER_01
She would challenge me, always challenge me.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then I said, oh, yeah, this is this is this.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I realized she was just like, I m trying to test me if I really believed in it.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then again, I probably
1
SPEAKER_01
I needed that, I did need that, because I needed to know it for my, I was aware of it.
1
SPEAKER_01
So then I was like, cool, this is what s gonna happen.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then she go, okay, I believe you.
1
SPEAKER_01
All right, cool, let s go.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, this is the way, I know this is the way, I know I can make it work.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I think it was just like,
1
SPEAKER_01
I just believed, I don t know where it comes from.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think it s just a gift and I just try and honor it and try and do good with it.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t try and like, I intellectualize it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Do you know what I m saying?
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I get that, man.
1
SPEAKER_02
I get that.
1
SPEAKER_02
That makes sense.
1
SPEAKER_02
And obviously like I heard, I was watching your Hot Ones, which I loved.
1
SPEAKER_02
And on there you talked about how like you wrote your first piece when you were nine years old.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I was thinking it s amazing now because with the work that you re doing now with the kitchen and like production and writing, like you re kind of almost doing this full circle piece.
1
SPEAKER_02
Why was writing where you started?
1
SPEAKER_02
Because I don t think a lot of people know that.
1
SPEAKER_02
Like I didn t know that as well.
1
SPEAKER_02
Like I ve discovered you as an actor and loved your work, but like what was it about writing that drew you to it at nine years old?
1
SPEAKER_02
And tell us about that piece too.
1
SPEAKER_01
I know, I don t know, I was at school one time.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s before this play competition, which is what I won at nine.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was at school one time and the teacher told me to write something and in my heart I knew.
1
SPEAKER_01
I know I could do this sick and I wrote something.
1
SPEAKER_01
I thought it was amazing, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
And the teacher gave me a rubbish grade.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m like, you re wrong.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think you re wrong.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, I really like this.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then like that competition, it was just basically like, it was a playwriting course.
1
SPEAKER_01
They come to your school in Camden.
1
SPEAKER_01
Roy Williams, who s a really big playwright now was a teacher then.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then like a teacher shamed me and was like, oh, like, like Daniel, you re messing about.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was mischievous, like you re messing about.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m like, nah, I don t like this one.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then so I was like, all right, cool.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, all right, cool, I ll show you, I ll show you.
1
SPEAKER_01
Then I wrote this play, it s based on Keenan and Kel, about these guys that work in the shop.
1
SPEAKER_01
And they just had a friendship.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then like, I got to the next round.
1
SPEAKER_01
It was a couple of us in the next round.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then I was just right.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then those guys, Jonathan Siddle and Roy were like,
1
SPEAKER_01
I knew, at that time they knew, I felt like they knew I had something, cause I just felt the energy in them.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was like, yeah, I ll just, this is what I think.
1
SPEAKER_01
Cause how do you feel?
1
SPEAKER_01
I was like, I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then like, then I won it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Then my whole school year came to Hampstead Theatre, I watch it.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s in my arsenal top, I got a picture and I m just flexing.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then like, and then yeah, I mean, they told me like, keep going, keep going.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m like, I m going to play out.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m not going to, right.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then I did a play for Ray Williams  Sucker Punch when I was 21.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I remember he told me after it, yeah, he was like, yeah, do you know that the teachers didn t want to pick you?
1
SPEAKER_01
They were like, don t, he s too bad.
1
SPEAKER_01
Don t, he s too bad.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then Ray was like, I m definitely going to pick him.
1
SPEAKER_01
So it was just, that was the kind of like, I had that antagonistic energy in class, but I just, I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_01
I just, I knew how to, I knew dialogue.
1
SPEAKER_01
I knew how people spoke.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I think a lot of it s to do because I was like, in my family, I didn t speak my language.
1
SPEAKER_01
So then I would like sit at family events and then I m like watching.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I can see that in hindsight.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like I would observe and I would like peace and I know how to pick tone and energy and I feel it cause I have to, you know what I m saying?
1
SPEAKER_01
So I think that s where it came from.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then I stopped and I picked it back up at 16 to get back in the game.
1
SPEAKER_01
But during that time I got into acting and I got into improv which is actually writing on your feet.
1
SPEAKER_01
So then I was honing that skillset.
1
SPEAKER_01
So when I got back to play writing again, it was easy.
1
SPEAKER_02
Tell us about some of the improv, because I feel like that s such a fascinating skill.
1
SPEAKER_02
I love how you said writing on your feet.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s a cool way of thinking about it.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I feel like improv almost demands so much from an artist in a way that other work doesn t.
1
SPEAKER_02
How would you, is there like a funny moment of improv that you did with a group or something, a story that you went through that you re like, oh, I remember that.
1
SPEAKER_02
And that was a moment where I was like, oh, I can write on my feet.
1
SPEAKER_02
I can actually do this.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think we was messing about in class and then Evelyn taught me and Marcus
1
SPEAKER_00
They were just like, you guys are messing about.
1
SPEAKER_01
He s in the community class, Anashe, he s in the community class.
1
SPEAKER_01
Then if you re good enough, you get to the YPs, young professionals.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then like, he was just like, oh, like you guys don t get it.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then they went on stage and they just acted.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I watched it and I was like, copy.
1
SPEAKER_01
I get it.
1
SPEAKER_01
I understand what you re doing.
1
SPEAKER_01
I understand.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then after that point, I got it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Cause I needed to see it to go, all right, cool.
1
SPEAKER_01
I ll get you, I ll get you, I ll get you.
1
SPEAKER_01
What I love about it is that you just let it go.
1
SPEAKER_01
You re not holding on.
1
SPEAKER_01
I have moments that my friends remind me if I see them go, oh yeah, I remember when you brought out that iron.
1
SPEAKER_01
Do you know what I mean?
1
SPEAKER_01
As a prop.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I just had this rule is like, once you re in your head, you re dead.
1
SPEAKER_01
So you just got, and also is like, it s like what you said, like improv is yes and.
1
SPEAKER_01
So you can t reject.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know what I m saying?
1
SPEAKER_01
So it s just like, if someone says something crazy, you just gotta go with it.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know what I mean?
1
SPEAKER_01
And you go, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then also, if someone doesn t know how to do it, I learned how to drive it.
1
SPEAKER_01
So say if you didn t know how to do it, I d be like, yeah, why are you nodding like that?
1
SPEAKER_02
Why are you nodding like that?
1
SPEAKER_02
Because I m agreeing with you.
1
SPEAKER_01
About what?
1
SPEAKER_02
I m agreeing with you based on what you said about... What exactly did I say then?
1
SPEAKER_02
And then you clock hard to like... And that s real dialogue too, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
Exactly, because you re listening.
1
SPEAKER_01
Because you re interrupting and listening, you re not just... Then by doing that, you re playing a character that doesn t listen.
1
SPEAKER_01
or listens too closely that they don t, they re hearing and not listening.
1
SPEAKER_01
They re trying to find, and then so you re building that character through those interactions and then you re honing it through the interactions and then you land, all right, cool, bang.
1
SPEAKER_01
So it s like.
1
SPEAKER_01
So that s how I kind of learned how to do it.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s more that, yeah, don t know.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s hard to like describe like that.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
I don t know why I m going down this road, but you mentioned it and I m listening.
1
SPEAKER_02
So I was like, you said you re an Arsenal fan.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, go on.
1
SPEAKER_02
I m a United fan.
1
SPEAKER_02
You ve been an Arsenal fan forever.
1
SPEAKER_02
What s been your favorite team at Arsenal over the years?
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, man.
1
SPEAKER_01
I d have to say like,
1
SPEAKER_01
My favorite was Adams, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
Keone, over Mars, that was crazy.
1
SPEAKER_01
That was like, but that s when I fell in love.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was like, these are my guys.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like everyone was just, everyone was just firing.
1
SPEAKER_01
So I just, I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_01
And also it was my local team in it.
1
SPEAKER_01
So then it was just like,
1
SPEAKER_01
It s as if we won a cup, the area was happy.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, it s not like, that s where it came from.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s like, so there was a time when we didn t win a cup for nine years and then we did FA Cup and I watched it at Holloway and all that kind of stuff.
1
SPEAKER_01
And the next day it was like, it was all Arsenal fans outside the windows, people like, you know, in their dusty vans, the right and stuff in their dusty vans.
1
SPEAKER_01
It was just, everyone was happy.
1
SPEAKER_01
Even if you weren t an Arsenal fan, you were just, the area was happy.
1
SPEAKER_01
So it was, that was the, it was a close connection.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t know, it was cool the fact that I could go to games, like obviously the Card and Cup games, because all the other games were hard to get.
1
SPEAKER_01
I went to Martin Keown Testimony, actually.
1
SPEAKER_01
But like, it was like, it was like, I don t know, you just felt like a community.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like when they scored high, the upper table just rocked.
1
SPEAKER_01
and you think it would break.
1
SPEAKER_01
So it was a bit of danger, you know what I m saying?
1
SPEAKER_01
It was just like, and then my mom s friend used to give me tickets when she went away.
1
SPEAKER_01
So then I watched like wicked games or rubbish games, but I was part of it from like young, you know what I mean?
1
SPEAKER_01
You could get a ticket, even if you couldn t afford it, you know what I mean?
1
SPEAKER_01
So I just fell in love with it during that age, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
And you had a lot of happy days, but I think you had a lot of unhappy days as well.
1
SPEAKER_02
Stress, bro.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t want to put people out there, this is a public forum, but it was stress.
1
SPEAKER_01
It was stress, but like,
1
SPEAKER_01
I can, I m very, I see that I m a very child of Venga.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like I can see I m very stubborn.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like a lot of how Arsenal is, is in me.
1
SPEAKER_01
I feel like, cause it s not, it s bigger than just football.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like they have a philosophy, do you know what I mean?
1
SPEAKER_01
They have a style, that era had a style.
1
SPEAKER_01
They had a style and I just respected it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Do you know what I m saying?
2
SPEAKER_01
And I just, and I think it s going to a school in Islington and the Islington team is the one.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then you re like literally looking at the sun in the paper the next day in school and then it s the invincibles.
2
SPEAKER_01
And they re talking about your local team.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think it makes you think like, we re the guys.
2
SPEAKER_01
At such a formative age, do you know what I mean?
2
SPEAKER_01
So I think it s a bit of that.
2
SPEAKER_02
Well, that s where I struggled because, so I always say this, that every Indian person that moved to England in like the 70s and 80s, i.e.
2
SPEAKER_02
my dad, they only support Manchester United or Liverpool because those were the big clubs at the time.
2
SPEAKER_02
Those are the clubs winning everything.
2
SPEAKER_02
And so I support United because of that.
2
SPEAKER_02
I never lived in Manchester.
2
SPEAKER_02
And so I never had a happy day in the town because I used to almost have to like shy away from saying I was a United fan because I lived right in between Highbury and Spurs.
2
SPEAKER_01
So that s where I grew up, in Wood Green, like right in between.
2
SPEAKER_02
And so I never got to go out and celebrate in the town because I didn t live in Manchester.
2
SPEAKER_02
And so I always like grew up in fear of like, I can t tell anyone what I follow and like what I do.
2
SPEAKER_01
Why isn t there a lot of Indian players in football?
2
SPEAKER_02
I ve always wanted to ask this.
2
SPEAKER_02
That s a great question, you know, and I think it s because a lot of parents don t, you know, if an Indian kid told their parent they wanted to be a football player, I mean, I just got to look at these two and go, what do you think the parents would have said?
2
SPEAKER_02
What do you think the parents would have said?
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, definitely not, no matter how good they were.
2
SPEAKER_02
I was telling Rasa B, one of our mates, I m calling him out here, his kid s supposedly quite decent at football.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I told him yesterday, I was like, mate, you gotta let this kid chase football, chase the dream.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I don t know if, as a culture, I think our parents worked so hard and they wanted us to have safety.
2
SPEAKER_02
And so they didn t want the kids to do anything that felt unsafe.
2
SPEAKER_02
So acting would also be a no-go.
2
SPEAKER_02
You don t see that many South Asian people in acting.
2
SPEAKER_02
I mean, it s growing now for sure, especially the London scene.
2
SPEAKER_02
acting, media, anything that was uncertain or unsafe, Indian parents generally were like, no.
2
SPEAKER_02
They didn t want us to be a part of it because they just wanted us to not have the struggle they did.
2
SPEAKER_02
And so they wanted us to feel safety, security.
2
SPEAKER_02
And so if you can get a good job, right, that makes sense.
2
SPEAKER_02
If you could get a good job that paid the bills, took care of you, they were happy.
2
SPEAKER_02
They just wanted you to be safe.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m interested in like how cultural values dictate what the paths are, because the demographics, they should be lost.
2
SPEAKER_01
If you look at it as demographically, do you know what I m saying?
2
SPEAKER_00
The Therapy for Black Girls podcast is an NAACP and Webby Award winning podcast dedicated to all things mental health, personal development, and all of the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves.
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SPEAKER_00
Here, we have the conversations that help Black women decipher how their pasts inform who they are today.
2
SPEAKER_00
and use that information to decide who they want to be moving forward.
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SPEAKER_00
We chat about things like how to establish routines that center self-care, what burnout looks and feels like, and defining what aspects of our lives are making us happy and what parts are holding us back.
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I m your host, Dr. Joy Harden-Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia.
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SPEAKER_00
And I can t wait for you to join the conversation every Wednesday.
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Listen to the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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SPEAKER_00
Take good care, and we ll see you there.
2
SPEAKER_05
Get emotional with me, Radhi Devlukia, in my new podcast, A Really Good Cry.
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We re going to talk about and go through all the things that are sometimes difficult to process alone.
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SPEAKER_05
We re going to go over how to regulate your emotions, diving deep into holistic personal development, and just building your mindset to have a happier, healthier life.
2
SPEAKER_05
We re going to be talking with some of my best friends.
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I didn t know we were going to go there.
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people that I admire.
2
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When we say listen to your body, really tune in to what s going on.
2
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Authors of books that have changed my life.
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Now you re talking about sympathy, which is different than empathy.
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And basically have conversations that can help us get through this crazy thing we call life.
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I already believe in myself.
2
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2
SPEAKER_05
And so when people give me an opportunity, I m just like,
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Oh great, you see me too!
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We ll laugh together, we ll cry together, and find a way through all of our emotions.
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Never forget, it s okay to cry, as long as you make it a really good one.
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Listen to A Really Good Cry with Radhi Devlukia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
2
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When you find that bright spot to help you get through your day, it s powerful.
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That s where The Bright Side comes in.
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A new daily podcast from Hello Sunshine that s bringing you a daily dose of joy.
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And I m Simone Boyce.
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Listen, both Danielle and I are reporters.
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We ve covered the news and we know the world can feel heavy, but The Bright Side podcast is a space to have a little fun, to learn something new and get into some friendly debates.
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That s right, join us five days a week to see how life can look from the bright side.
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We ll hear from celebrities, authors, experts, and listeners like you.
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Whether it s relationships, friend advice, or figuring out how to navigate life s transitions, we ll talk through it all together.
2
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Listen to The Bright Side from Hello Sunshine every weekday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, everyone plays at school and then it gets called off.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like I remember with my parents too, it s like, they want you to play, they want you to be sporty, but they don t want you to take it that seriously.
2
SPEAKER_02
I had friends at my school that were amazing at cricket, like incredible cricket players that were playing for England under 21s, England under 18s, and then went off to be accountants because their parents wouldn t let them, you know, follow the dream.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s really interesting seeing who pushes back through that as well.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like some people just go, no, I m going to try anyway.
2
SPEAKER_02
And some people fold and let it go.
2
SPEAKER_02
But I m hoping it changes.
2
SPEAKER_02
I m hoping it changes.
2
SPEAKER_02
What were some cultural things that you think held you back?
2
SPEAKER_02
I mean, you ve talked a bit about the racism you experienced.
2
SPEAKER_02
You know, for me, when I was hearing about that, I thought that doesn t sound easy when you add it to the other bullying and shaming you were talking about earlier.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like, what was it like navigating that?
2
SPEAKER_02
Well, you talked about what, from what I ve heard, what you ve talked about is like, it took you a long time to realize that you felt darker than the people that you were around.
2
SPEAKER_02
And so there was this whole, and you felt that they made you feel bad for that.
2
SPEAKER_01
When I got into secondary, and that was more predominantly black school, is when I realized that I was darker than the average black person that I grew up around or I was around.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then they would tell me.
2
SPEAKER_01
It was a kind of culture shock, but then I was darker than a lot of people in my family.
2
SPEAKER_01
So then it was even, that made me feel a bit different.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so then I was just like, oh yeah, I don t really know what s going on.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then, but then obviously like,
2
SPEAKER_01
At that age, you re going through racism, but you re in a predominantly black space.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re not, you re going through colorism.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then like, you go out of it and then, I mean like, got good grades and then start going to a different school, like more middle class, upper class school, then you deal with, you see racism.
2
SPEAKER_01
But you see people do things, you re like, what s that?
2
SPEAKER_01
That s weird.
2
SPEAKER_01
What s that?
2
SPEAKER_01
What s weird?
2
SPEAKER_01
You haven t really felt like you re, you ve got the right to go, oh, that s that.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know what I m saying?
2
SPEAKER_01
And you ain t got no one to talk to that understands what s happening.
2
SPEAKER_01
then it just started getting a bit more, the more, the more like kind of more into the workforce, the more that you would face it.
2
SPEAKER_01
And the more asleep people are to it and you go call it out.
2
SPEAKER_01
What I used to say is that like, cause one time I was getting, not getting roles cause of acting and that, cause of, and then I was like, oh yeah, I was making all these excuses.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then my agent at the time was Irish.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he was like, yeah, well, Daniel s cause you re black.
2
SPEAKER_01
I said, what do you mean?
2
SPEAKER_01
He said, it s because you re black.
2
SPEAKER_01
He said, it doesn t happen to anyone else.
2
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t matter, you should be black.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, allowed to kind of like accept it.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then I would tell people it was racism and they kind of wouldn t believe me.
2
SPEAKER_01
Then when I said, oh, my Irish agent said it, they re like, oh, is it?
2
SPEAKER_01
So I realized when you re black, you feel, you don t have the disease,
2
SPEAKER_01
but you feel the symptoms, but you re not allowed to diagnose it.
2
SPEAKER_01
It has to be someone outside of yourself that says, that s what s happening.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that means it s more valid.
2
SPEAKER_01
Do you know what I m saying?
2
SPEAKER_01
Usually the people that it s come from, because you re seen as too biased because you have the symptoms.
2
SPEAKER_01
So that s what I realized about it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like you re just going for it.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re like, oh, right.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s kind of nuts.
2
SPEAKER_01
I can t really even say it.
2
SPEAKER_01
And that s what subconscious going on.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, if I say it, you re like, oh, he s saying, oh.
2
SPEAKER_01
he s got a chip on his shoulder.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s what it is, you got a chip on your shoulder, bro.
2
SPEAKER_01
Man, you know chips on my shoulder, bro.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, do you know what I mean?
2
SPEAKER_01
It s nuts.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, it s nuts what he was saying.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s like, it s common.
2
SPEAKER_01
And people are like, and so I think that s what it is.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re like just navigating all of those things.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, so it took me a long time to figure it out.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m still figuring it out.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I feel like that s something that you don t ever figure out, because it s like, I love how you described that, never heard it described like that, but the idea of how, because you have the symptoms, you can t be the one to diagnose it, but you can t be the one to express it, which feels so difficult, because it s almost like, this is my reality, but you need someone else to validate your reality.
2
SPEAKER_02
And that is a really interesting prison to live in.
2
SPEAKER_01
All right, cool, so Jay,
3
SPEAKER_00
What do you love in life?
3
SPEAKER_00
What do I love?
3
SPEAKER_00
Away from like the family.
3
SPEAKER_00
What do you love?
3
SPEAKER_00
Football.
3
SPEAKER_00
Football.
3
SPEAKER_00
Imagine my comment when they go, J, why do people don t like football?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I d be like, yeah, I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_00
So when people go, why do people don t like black people?
3
SPEAKER_00
Why would I know?
3
SPEAKER_00
So then that s what I m saying.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like, there s something, it s gaslighting.
3
SPEAKER_00
Cause it s like, I don t, how am I supposed to, but then when I initiate it and say, this has happened, I m not believed, but then I m supposed to report about it when it s happening to me from there to justify what they re doing.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s a whole, like, it doesn t really make sense what s happening.
3
SPEAKER_00
If I go, this was happening, no, that s not true.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then they ll have a whole,
3
SPEAKER_00
lawyer or someone like a professor that has a dossier.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then now if he says it, because he wrote 80 pages of waffle, they believe him.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I told you, you re just saying that his word is worth more than mine.
3
SPEAKER_00
And that is racism.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ll say this, it s not worth, it s just not worth anything to you.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I had to really learn that my word is worth something to me, to me.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so then like, I just, I just moved like that.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I just don t really like kind of engage with the narratives.
3
SPEAKER_00
Cause it s just people just making up things that protect what they like about it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Cause you only, things are kept because they like something about it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Cause they didn t know get rid of it.
3
SPEAKER_00
It would change the culture.
3
SPEAKER_00
You ve seen how they change other things.
3
SPEAKER_00
You change the culture.
3
SPEAKER_00
There s something that protects.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I find when I m talking to you, I find that you ve kind of really worked on like making peace with how you feel about yourself and how you feel about your views and how you feel about your art.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like there seems to be this autonomy and independence in saying, as you were saying earlier, even when you were given a bad grade, you were like, no, no, but I know this is good.
3
SPEAKER_01
And even what you were saying before where you were like, it gave you space to fail in private because you were like, no, no, I know that I m working on myself.
3
SPEAKER_01
So it feels like you ve really worked on having this internal peace.
3
SPEAKER_01
How hard is that as your career kind of does the opposite, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
So it s like you re getting more and more focused on giving yourself peace, which is an amazing skill.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like I m loving to see it on display and I know everyone s going to appreciate seeing it.
3
SPEAKER_01
and at the same time it s like you re doing bigger and bigger things so you re more and more exposed to other people s opinions.
3
SPEAKER_01
How have you managed to or how are you managing to continue to kind of hold on to that core of that nine-year-old and that 15-year-old?
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, like, I think I always just have it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, it s just mine.
3
SPEAKER_00
So it s not something, but I think it s like, what happens is, is how I ve done things that causes a ruckus or chaos in my sphere.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so like, you just gotta accept that you re a bit chaotic.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like, there s something, that doesn t mean that s you, but there s something there that you have to look at.
3
SPEAKER_00
If it s nuts like that, you have to look, all right, cool.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, where is that?
3
SPEAKER_00
What s that?
3
SPEAKER_00
And then you get closer to being cool with it or then it will quiet down.
3
SPEAKER_00
But there s something that I m not looking at.
3
SPEAKER_00
If it goes a bit mad or you care too much what people think, do you know what I m saying?
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like, you have to accept that.
3
SPEAKER_00
Just go, all right, cool.
3
SPEAKER_00
Why is that?
3
SPEAKER_00
What s happening there?
3
SPEAKER_00
I feel like, but yeah, no, it s been, last few years, it s been wild.
3
SPEAKER_00
But like, it s been like, I ve done it in a very quiet way.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s been wild in a sense, like what happens and stuff like that.
3
SPEAKER_00
But that s what happens.
3
SPEAKER_00
The narratives that I ve been a part of are powerful.
3
SPEAKER_00
And like, and decisions I ve made to like stand on things that I believe in or even basically, like a lot of the, I know what I like and I like what I like.
3
SPEAKER_00
If people don t like it, I m like,
3
SPEAKER_00
If I care, I would wanna know why you don t like it.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I like what I like and I stand on decisions I make and I think then that spreads.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t know, maybe that s a bit different to how people handle their careers in this day and age.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I don t know, but that s just me guessing.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t have a big landscape on what every decision people are making.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, what does it feel like to see some of those nine-year-old, 15-year-old dreams come true?
3
SPEAKER_01
What does that feel like in reality?
3
SPEAKER_01
What does that actually look like?
3
SPEAKER_00
Calm.
3
SPEAKER_00
Normal.
3
SPEAKER_00
I knew it.
3
SPEAKER_00
I know it.
3
SPEAKER_00
The minute I get the idea, I m like, all right, cool, there, boom.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s when I get excited.
3
SPEAKER_00
Are we on?
3
SPEAKER_00
Now let s work to it.
3
SPEAKER_00
So when you re working to it, when you get there, it costs so much, you know, it costs so much.
3
SPEAKER_00
If you want something that like you really want, the price is so high that you re just a bit like, all right, cool.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re not seeing it as for the sheen that you saw in the perspective at 15 at nine.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re seeing it, all right, that cost me this, that cost me that.
3
SPEAKER_00
I had to wake up four AM here, I had to do this, that there, I had to grind here, I had to do this, I had to do this.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re seeing the cost it takes.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re feeling the cost it takes.
3
SPEAKER_00
So when you land and arrive, all right, cool, there was turbulence.
3
SPEAKER_02
Oh yeah, you got here.
3
SPEAKER_00
I did.
3
SPEAKER_00
You just did.
3
SPEAKER_00
Do you know what I m saying?
3
SPEAKER_00
And then, but the excitement comes from like feeling like you can do it before you see all of it.
3
SPEAKER_00
That makes sense.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like the full kind of picture.
3
SPEAKER_00
Cause you re only seeing the good.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s why you go there.
3
SPEAKER_00
But then like everything s balanced.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s all it is.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s not like it s bad.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s just like, it s everything.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I love that statement you just said.
3
SPEAKER_01
You only see the good, that s why you go there.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then when you go there, you see all of it, but you realize that all of it was part of getting you there.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was never possible to get there without everything else.
3
SPEAKER_00
It was never- And part of it, you re only seeing the good, because that entices you.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like what people say about sex, how sex is a way for your genes to keep going.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like the body has created this organism to keep going, so then you have this pleasure out of it.
3
SPEAKER_00
So it s like, it s kind of like, oh, you got, oh yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then when you go in there, I m not saying sex is bad, sex is great.
3
SPEAKER_00
But like, you go to full of it, you go and see fullness of it.
3
SPEAKER_00
I find that when you go on those journeys, yeah, there s something about the badness in it that you have to face in yourself.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it s whether you take the lesson.
3
SPEAKER_00
And if you don t take that lesson, you will meet it again.
3
SPEAKER_00
You will meet it again until it lets you go.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then when you meet and accept it, sometimes you realize, well, I ve realized that like, oh, I don t even want that good now.
3
SPEAKER_00
Part of it was me figuring out something in me that I didn t really know that I wanted to figure out.
3
SPEAKER_00
Do you know what I m saying?
3
SPEAKER_00
But that was probably the majority of it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Do you know what I m saying?
3
SPEAKER_00
And the sex impulse told you, go there.
3
SPEAKER_00
Do you know what I m saying?
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like, do that.
3
SPEAKER_01
When did you get, you said when you haven t, I m gonna do a little bad impersonation, but you re like, when you get the idea, it s like, boom.
3
SPEAKER_01
So where s the, where s the, when did you get the idea for the kitchen?
3
SPEAKER_01
And like, cause I know that project s taken a long time to come to life, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
Like eight years or something, seven?
3
10.
3
SPEAKER_00
10.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
All right.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve got the idea in a barbershop in Holloway.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve seen the barbershop and then like these guys were talking about taking stuff, like,
3
SPEAKER_00
He s highest, a million pound highest.
3
SPEAKER_00
And this is Daniel Vaughn, they were talking.
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, they were talking about actually doing this.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, they were just chatting.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m like, these guys are talking.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then like this, and they were saying, something was on TV and they were like, yeah, that s us, that s us.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then I was like, right, that s us.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then in that moment, I was like, I d love to see that film.
3
SPEAKER_00
Of people like going into like diamond shores, stores and like robbing stuff.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was like, I d love to see that.
3
SPEAKER_00
Just in the barbershop chilling.
3
SPEAKER_00
Cause like my barber just kept on putting appointments before me, even though I made an appointment.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I ll be sitting there the whole half a day.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then like, so then I was like, oh, I d love to see that.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then like, and then I never saw him again, ever.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, what happened to him?
3
SPEAKER_00
And he s like, yeah, he went.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then like, I was like, oh, I couldn t shake it.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was like, it was thrilling, but there was a cost.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I must have been like 22 in a barbershop, like chilling.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was like, there s something about that.
3
SPEAKER_00
Then I did a bit more research and I realized that like, oh,
3
SPEAKER_00
They re getting paid like, they ve been stealing millions of pounds worth of diamonds, but they re getting paid 200 pound.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was like, signing that.
3
SPEAKER_00
That says where we re at in this world and what s going on in London, where they don t even know the value of what they re robbing.
3
SPEAKER_00
They think it s worth 200 and they re willing to risk their life and their freedom for it.
3
SPEAKER_00
I wanna know what s going on there.
3
SPEAKER_00
I just kept digging.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I just would go down there and then I m like, where I grew up, like how we grew up, like, obviously you do like the professional jobs, like you do like Harry and Paul and the Psychovilles and then that, but then I would have like a whole other career where we just make YouTube videos and we just compete with people and just make stuff.
3
SPEAKER_00
So then there was a time when like, cause I wrote on skins and stuff.
3
SPEAKER_00
There was a time when I went to do meetings and talk about what my ideas were.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, I m tired of these coffees, man.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so then I was like, and I got the team together, a director and a producer and that, that we was building with.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then like, and then I was like, hey, let s just make it.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I asked my barber,
3
SPEAKER_00
He s in the film actually.
3
SPEAKER_00
Is he a barber in the film?
3
SPEAKER_00
No, no, no.
3
SPEAKER_01
He s just in the film constantly.
3
SPEAKER_00
He s one of the residents.
3
SPEAKER_00
He s one of the main residents.
3
SPEAKER_00
But this is why.
4
SPEAKER_02
This is why, so I went to barber, he closed on Wednesdays.
4
SPEAKER_02
So I was like, hey, bro, like, I beg you, let s use your shop.
4
SPEAKER_02
Because basically it started as reservoir dogs in the barbershop.
4
SPEAKER_02
So then I was like, hey, like, can we use your shop to shoot?
4
SPEAKER_02
He s like, yeah, yeah, of course, of course, of course, of course, of course.
4
SPEAKER_02
Then I like paying people.
4
SPEAKER_02
He said, I have a free.
4
SPEAKER_02
I was like, nah, man, like, please.
4
SPEAKER_02
And then he was like, obviously he didn t have a budget.
4
SPEAKER_02
I think it d be like 200 pound each and we just shot something.
4
SPEAKER_02
I got a new actors and that s why they need a new crew.
4
SPEAKER_02
And then like, and he was like, don t cut me out of this.
4
SPEAKER_02
Don t cut me out of this. 
4
SPEAKER_02
I was like, nah, bro, I ve got you.
4
SPEAKER_02
He s like, nah, when it blows, keep me in, I need to stay involved.
4
SPEAKER_02
I said, nah, I ve got you, I ve got you.
4
SPEAKER_02
So that s how it kind of started and then it evolved.
4
SPEAKER_02
It kept on evolving from then.
4
SPEAKER_01
Wow, I love that.
4
SPEAKER_01
I love hearing how ideas come about.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I appreciate that you have that memory.
4
SPEAKER_01
Did you actually sit down with people who d done those heists?
4
SPEAKER_01
Or did you meet some people who d actually gone through with it?
4
SPEAKER_02
I met a couple of guys that did stuff like that.
4
SPEAKER_02
And it was just like, I think I went there and it was pretty simple.
4
SPEAKER_02
For me, it was about the mentality.
4
SPEAKER_02
Which I knew, I understood.
4
SPEAKER_02
But it was like kind of being around the people and understanding, just like hanging with them, hanging with them.
4
SPEAKER_02
And the people that are like in the news, and that s why I said I chilled with them.
4
SPEAKER_02
And it was like, this is Daniel.
4
SPEAKER_02
But I think them kind of guys like,
4
SPEAKER_02
We understand each other.
4
SPEAKER_02
Cause I kind of go into the industry like, all right, listen, I m just doing what I want.
4
SPEAKER_02
Like, I m just going to go in there.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I think that s how, that s the energy that they have.
4
SPEAKER_02
But yeah, no, they were, they re interesting people.
4
SPEAKER_01
What did you learn about them?
4
SPEAKER_01
Do you feel they were just, they re just trying to survive or they re trying to, or they sold a dream or what s kind of motivating them to do that?
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
4
SPEAKER_02
I think they just do it.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s part of their operation, it s what they do, it s what they know, it s their reality, that s what they know.
4
SPEAKER_02
That s how they ve chosen five, whether they ve been the older brother or been the only boy in the family or whatever the reason is that they ve gone down that path, they did it and they have a level of intelligence.
4
SPEAKER_02
That means they ve been able to organize an operation and talk to people and communicate and this and that.
4
SPEAKER_02
They re like, but that s...
4
SPEAKER_02
They re just doing that in this realm.
4
SPEAKER_02
And it s like, I found how they think more interesting than what they do.
4
SPEAKER_02
And that s what I wanted to explore in this.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s like exposing the thought and the principles behind how they live and what their values are and why and how it is connected to,
4
SPEAKER_02
And if people are really true to it, so basically like someone like Staples in the film, he doesn t do anything criminal to per se.
4
SPEAKER_02
But it s like, he has the mentality and the values.
4
SPEAKER_02
Do you know what I m saying?
4
SPEAKER_02
It s like, he s this guy, he thinks the enemy isn t the other postcode or the other block.
4
SPEAKER_02
The enemy is the system.
4
SPEAKER_02
And he engages with them how we would see a kid like that engage with the other block and the postcode.
4
SPEAKER_02
He goes, it s you lot.
4
SPEAKER_02
And he just engages in like that.
4
SPEAKER_02
That s a powerful energy.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s a powerful mentality.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s a leader.
4
SPEAKER_02
So I kind of was just interested in that and how those people think and how that can be, how can motor and a kind of like a cultural identity.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I felt that kind of like London had that energy of like, bro, we do what we want.
4
SPEAKER_02
Like if you re really from there, if you re really from there, and I feel you have that energy, but you re just a monk and that, you know what I mean?
4
SPEAKER_02
You re like Zen.
4
SPEAKER_02
But you re like, hey, it s me.
4
SPEAKER_02
But you re doing it for good things.
4
SPEAKER_02
But it s like, I think London, I always felt London was a special city.
4
SPEAKER_02
A very special city, but sometimes our humility and the class ceiling stops us from like doing what we want to do.
4
SPEAKER_02
People are like, oh, there s a glass ceiling.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I m like, it s made of glass.
4
SPEAKER_00
You could break it.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s not like, it s just made me get something.
4
SPEAKER_02
I mean, and I feel like what I was around was basically what I grew up around was that mentality.
4
SPEAKER_02
We re going to make it work.
4
SPEAKER_02
We re going to make it happen.
4
SPEAKER_02
And not in an arrogant way.
4
SPEAKER_02
We just, cause we want it to happen.
4
SPEAKER_02
We just, we mean it.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s sincerity.
4
SPEAKER_02
We mean it.
4
SPEAKER_02
We just want it to happen.
4
SPEAKER_02
And like, it s more than us.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I feel like London, and then I ve researched about London, about the blitz and how the mentality of like,
4
SPEAKER_02
when London was bombed for the first time, how like people were scared and then after it, they were like, oh, we survived.
4
SPEAKER_02
And how it built a resilience in the city, like a kind of resilience that I feel like is still here.
4
SPEAKER_02
But because of the class system and that keep calm, carry on mentality, we kind of squash it and like,
4
SPEAKER_02
like a very like regional with our dreams.
4
SPEAKER_02
We think, oh yeah, if we got this, then that s enough.
4
SPEAKER_02
Because said person said, that s all you can get.
4
SPEAKER_02
Who is this person?
4
SPEAKER_02
That s how I feel.
4
SPEAKER_02
Who are you to limit me?
4
SPEAKER_02
That doesn t make sense to me.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, do you think people are scared to dream or is it scared to, or they re accepting a limit or what, how would you articulate?
4
SPEAKER_02
One of the big moments I had, one of the big breakthroughs I feel in a script was like, I randomly like, so like, I think Black Mirror was like 22.
4
SPEAKER_02
Four years later, like it blew in America, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, huge, it s still, I mean.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s not, it went nuts in America.
4
SPEAKER_00
Netflix wasn t a thing.
4
SPEAKER_02
So I did this TV show and then I did a thing that crossed over in America.
4
SPEAKER_02
So I was in New York and then like, it was years after I did it.
4
SPEAKER_02
It was made with a Pacquiao fight right then.
4
SPEAKER_02
So I had a photo shoot.
4
SPEAKER_02
So I stayed at a photo shoot and then I was like, oh, I ve got to watch the fight here.
4
SPEAKER_02
So I stayed in this flat in Bed-Stuy and I was chilling.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I was in New York, like I was in New York.
4
SPEAKER_02
I went to the church, went to the brunch.
4
SPEAKER_02
I was going everywhere.
4
SPEAKER_02
I was rolling, went to the parties, went to everywhere.
4
SPEAKER_02
And then I was like, and I was, I don t know, I was walking around and there s a massive poster of Biggie in Brooklyn.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I looked at it, I was like, they really love themselves.
4
SPEAKER_02
This is someone that s come from there and they ve pushed that.
4
SPEAKER_02
I don t think London would, we wouldn t see our heroes of now on that pedestal, on that platform.
4
SPEAKER_02
We wouldn t see them as who they are majority of the time.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s like, huh, I came back home and I used to like go Cali pool, but I used to run from my place to go Cali pool.
4
SPEAKER_02
I used to get a lot of things from my jogs.
4
SPEAKER_02
So I d run there, it s a 10 minute jog and I would look around, I m like, the same demographic as New York, literally, same demographic.
4
SPEAKER_02
What s the difference?
4
SPEAKER_02
Why does New York feel like New York, New York, and then London feels, and I was just running around, I was like, these guys don t believe in themselves.
4
SPEAKER_02
I m gonna believe myself.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I think my career shifted, but also I think the, I just feel, I want that for London.
4
SPEAKER_02
I want that, we re global.
4
SPEAKER_02
We re playing world-class rent.
4
SPEAKER_02
I want world-class results from the city.
4
SPEAKER_02
Do you understand?
4
SPEAKER_02
So like, but for whatever reason, we re just like going, no, no, no.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s like, I just don t, I don t believe in that.
4
SPEAKER_02
I don t believe in that.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I feel like New Yorkers just,
4
SPEAKER_02
decide with us.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I think if Londoners decide with us, I think everything will flourish.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I think a lot of it came from that.
4
SPEAKER_02
If we re being honest about who we are, as opposed to kind of hiding and kind of suppressing and kind of keep calm, carry on sheen, that we re pretending to be, where we re actually as a culture, very quite cocky.
4
SPEAKER_02
or sure about who we are, what we stand for.
4
SPEAKER_02
Even the fact that like when you grow up in London, like you really still stay hanging out with your friends that you grew up with.
4
SPEAKER_02
Do you know what I m saying?
4
SPEAKER_02
It s like, it s your, because that s what it is.
4
SPEAKER_02
Do you know what I mean?
4
SPEAKER_02
And that s a level of conviction and values that I feel we re not honest about publicly.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I wanted more for London.
4
SPEAKER_04
Tune in to the new podcast, Stories from the Village of Nothing Much, like easy listening, but for fiction.
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SPEAKER_04
If you ve overdosed on bad news, we invite you into a world where the glimmers of goodness in everyday life are all around you.
4
SPEAKER_04
I m Katherine Nicolai, and you might know me from the Bedtime Story podcast, Nothing Much Happens.
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I m an architect of cozy, and I invite you to come spend some time where everyone is welcome and kindness is the default.
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When you tune in, you ll hear stories about bakeries and walks in the woods, a favorite booth at the diner on a blustery autumn day, cats and dogs, unrescued goats and donkeys, old houses, bookshops, beaches where kites fly, and pretty stones are found.
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Listen, relax, enjoy.
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Listen to stories from the Village of Nothing Much on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
4
SPEAKER_03
Something that makes me crazy is when people say, well, I had this career before, but it was a waste.
4
SPEAKER_03
And that s where the perspective shift comes.
4
SPEAKER_03
That it s not a waste, that everything you ve done has built you to where you are now.
4
SPEAKER_03
This is She Pivots.
4
SPEAKER_03
the podcast where we explore the inspiring pivots women have made and dig deeper into the personal reasons behind them.
4
SPEAKER_03
Join me, Emily Tisch Sussman, every Wednesday on She Pivots as I sit down with inspiring women
5
SPEAKER_00
like Misty Copeland, Brooke Shields, Vanessa Hudgens, and so many more.
5
SPEAKER_00
We dive into how these women made their pivot and their mindset shifts that happened as a result.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s a podcast about women, their stories, and how their pivot became their success.
5
SPEAKER_00
Listen to She Pivots on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
5
SPEAKER_03
When the Taliban banned music in Afghanistan, millions were plunged into silence.
5
SPEAKER_03
Radios were smashed.
5
SPEAKER_03
Cassettes burned.
5
SPEAKER_03
You could be beaten or jailed or killed for breaking the rules.
5
SPEAKER_03
And yet, Afghans did it anyway.
5
SPEAKER_03
This is the story of how a group of people brought music back to Afghanistan by creating their own version of American Idol.
5
SPEAKER_03
The danger they endured.
5
SPEAKER_02
They said my head should be cut off.
5
SPEAKER_03
The joy they brought to the nation.
5
SPEAKER_04
You re free completely.
5
SPEAKER_03
No one is there to destroy you.
5
SPEAKER_03
I m John Legend.
5
SPEAKER_03
Listen to Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I love that, man.
5
SPEAKER_01
I relate to so much of that as someone who considers myself through and through London, born, raised, university, school, everything.
5
SPEAKER_01
All my best friends are here, you know, and obviously I don t live here anymore.
5
SPEAKER_01
But when I m back, it s like to me, yeah, London raised me and you have that kind of affinity to the city in such a special way.
5
SPEAKER_01
But yeah I feel similar to you that I feel often people think if you if you dream bigger or you think beyond or you are pursuing the limitless it s almost seen as less than it s seen as like no no no don t don t try that like that s it s not worth it it s not worth it or when we feel we have to
5
SPEAKER_01
present ourselves to others.
5
SPEAKER_01
We re like, no, no, you shouldn t even have to do that.
5
SPEAKER_01
It should just happen.
5
SPEAKER_01
And it s like, well, no, sometimes it takes a bit of work and convincing and pushing the boundaries as you re saying as well.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so I can relate to all of that.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I feel the same way.
5
SPEAKER_01
I feel the same way.
5
SPEAKER_01
London is fully global and London has so much incredible talent in all these different industries.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I think it needs to be shared globally too.
5
SPEAKER_01
We don t need to stay just here.
5
SPEAKER_02
I don t think so.
5
SPEAKER_02
I think we ve got a lot to say and we ve got interest and perspective.
5
SPEAKER_02
And I just wanna, I want more of it.
5
SPEAKER_02
A lot of time I do things, I was like, come on then.
5
SPEAKER_02
And I may mess it up, but at least I went for it.
5
SPEAKER_02
At least I went for it and I believed in it.
5
SPEAKER_02
And then hopefully someone after me refine it.
5
SPEAKER_02
So then I can learn something and I ll go for it.
5
SPEAKER_02
Do you mean it s like, that s the whole point.
5
SPEAKER_02
That s the whole point.
5
SPEAKER_02
Like, just go for it.
5
SPEAKER_02
It s not about you.
5
SPEAKER_02
It s about your ideas, what you can hear and what you can let through.
5
SPEAKER_02
That s what this is, man.
5
SPEAKER_02
And so what are you doing?
5
SPEAKER_02
What are you listening to?
5
SPEAKER_02
What radio station are you listening to?
5
SPEAKER_02
What ideas are you letting out?
5
SPEAKER_02
That s how I see it.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
How do you get, I m interested, I loved how you talked about how the idea for the kitchen formed.
5
SPEAKER_01
How do you get curious and critique your own ideas?
5
SPEAKER_01
Because I m sure you have ideas popping at you all the time.
5
SPEAKER_01
How do you kind of like filter it down to be like, oh, this is an idea that I really love versus I m going to park that, I m going to take that from here.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like walk me through what s happening in your mind.
5
SPEAKER_01
Because I feel like when you do have an idea that you re sure of and you go, yeah, that s the one, it seems so clear.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I m guessing you have a million ideas before you get that
5
SPEAKER_02
It s clear when you know it s clear.
5
SPEAKER_02
I think in that time, it s like, before the true clarity, you can t, it s like, you just can t shake it off.
5
SPEAKER_02
You can t stop thinking about it.
5
SPEAKER_02
You can t stop thinking about it.
5
SPEAKER_02
You can t stop thinking about it.
5
SPEAKER_02
You keep going, you keep going, keep going.
5
SPEAKER_02
And then it goes, oh, I got to do it.
5
SPEAKER_02
And what I really, truly, there s loads of ideas, but like,
5
SPEAKER_02
But I read like, like loads of ideas, but then like, someone ends up doing it.
5
SPEAKER_02
Like, do you know what I mean?
5
SPEAKER_02
It s like, and then you re like, and I, when someone ends up doing it, I get really happy.
5
SPEAKER_02
I m like, oh cool, I don t have to do it.
5
SPEAKER_02
They did it.
5
SPEAKER_02
Like, I don t see it as mine.
5
SPEAKER_02
I see it as what I hear and what I can see.
5
SPEAKER_02
Like, I think Noel Gallagher said in an interview one time, like, in Desert Island Disc and that, he said, like, they asked him about, like, I can t remember, one of them songs he made.
5
SPEAKER_02
They were like, what s it like?
5
SPEAKER_02
He said, it s like fishing.
5
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And you go in there by the shore and you re just waiting, and you re just waiting, and you re just whoa.
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You feel me?
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Or Michael Jackson described it one time where, like, he was saying how, like, he was writing
5
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He s writing a song and they were like, oh, Michael, go bed, you re tired.
5
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He s like, I can t.
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He said, Michael, go bed.
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I can t, why?
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And he was like, I can t because if I go bed, God will give the song to Prince.
5
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And you get it, it s not like...
5
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it s not mine, it s what my expertise, my hours, my perspective, I may have an idea, but I m not the right, haven t had the right upbringing to really actualize it.
5
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Like it s all these factors that come to you letting it through, do you know what I m saying?
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So I could see things, I go, yeah, that s a great idea, but I m not, that s not,
5
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I m not sure if I m able to give that.
5
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So a lot of time when I act in that, how I define it a lot of time is there s stuff I wanna say and there s stuff I wanna help people say.
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Acting is me helping someone say something because I m like, oh, I really wanna say that too, but I haven t got time to like get there.
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Do you know what I m saying?
5
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So I m like, cool, I ll just.
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I hope you say it because I believe it.
5
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So like, well, this is like, okay, now stuff I ve realized, oh, I m the one that is supposed to say this.
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I can say this.
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And then you have to check yourself and go, how much are you thinking about yourself?
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How big is your mentality?
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Or like, it could be limiting or like, you mean it s like, there s a whole process.
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That s why it s taken me time.
5
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But I think,
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When I did Skins, when I wrote on Skins, I had the thing that in my career, I was like, all right, cool.
5
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Do I wanna be a great singer or do I wanna sing great songs?
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Yeah, and I think my career shifted when I was like, I wanna sing great songs.
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And then I realized in that process, you become a great singer.
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So when Skins, when you re inheriting characters, you re singing a great song, essentially.
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And then I realized in this process, I ve had to learn how to make a song.
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You know what I m saying?
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How I like to create a character, how I like to create relationship design, how I like to create structure, like you have to learn all that in order to get to the standard that I like.
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You know what I m saying?
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You can release it.
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But I wouldn t, cause I just, I have a high standard for myself and the stuff I like.
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And I want me and my friends to like what I make or what I help someone make.
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I love what you said, man, and it s so interesting.
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When I m listening to someone speak on the podcast, I m always just trying to sense what energy connects everything they re saying, and every time you speak, the way you answer stuff is counterintuitive in a good way because I hear peace and calm through all of it.
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Even for you to just say right now that when someone makes something that I had an idea about, you accept that with peace, that, oh, that s not my idea, it wasn t meant to be mine.
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where a lot of us see someone make an idea come that we maybe one day had randomly and we re like, they did my idea.
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Like, I wish, you know, I could have been the person or whatever.
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We often feel a bit of competitiveness, comparison.
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And you have actually the opposite where it s a sense of peace and like, actually that s great for them, good for them.
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And- I m happy they made it because I want to see it.
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I want to see it.
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Like, I want to see it.
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Like, and it s the reality of like, oh yeah, to be to, well, I m the one to make the idea in that certain kind of level that cost a lot.
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Like, so if someone does it and they wanted to pay the price, I m gonna sit front row and be a fan of it.
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You know what I m saying?
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Like back then I d buy the DVD, you know what I m saying?
5
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I would like, I would support it because I m just happy it exists.
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I m just happy, I just want things to exist.
5
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I think the world that we kind of come into is really fake.
5
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Everyone s just saying, this is this, this is that.
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I m like, it s just people decided that.
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I just decided something different.
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And I think other people just decide something different.
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And I love seeing people make decisions.
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I know you know this and I hope you know this, that is beautiful man.
5
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That mindset is top-notch.
5
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That s another level of thinking.
5
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I wouldn t see it that way, but I hear you, I accept that.
5
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I m learning how to say thank you.
5
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Appreciate that.
5
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I m just saying it to you.
5
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I love that because I think if we could all live in that way where we could all be happy for bringing things into existence, whether it s brought by us or brought by others, that s a beautiful state to live in.
5
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To make something that doesn t exist to exist is incredible.
5
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I think it s insane.
5
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So I used to have this mentality back in the day, we used to think I was like,
5
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I thought I was nuts or whatever.
5
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But like, but like, be like, I mean, Thomas said, oh, you can t do this.
5
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I m like, a man and a woman have sex, yeah?
5
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And they make a baby.
5
SPEAKER_02
That is so incredible.
5
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like I just like I just don t you think that s the most insane but we got really difficult to have like it s really difficult for us it s a really difficult thing it s a difficult process it s all these other thousand guys trying to get in there too like I just I just
6
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I don t know, it makes me, I celebrate simple things.
6
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Like I remember in school I used to look up in the sky, I can t lie, this interview is making me realize I was a special kid.
6
SPEAKER_00
But I look at the sky, I go, bro, like, don t you think it s sick that planes can fly?
6
SPEAKER_00
I d be like, it s so heavy.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s so heavy, there s so many people, there s so many bags.
6
SPEAKER_00
What s going on?
6
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Like, can t we just go and let this plane go?
6
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what s going on here, this is wild.
6
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And I just was full, I just think that s one of the most amazing things ever.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like, that s why I always wanted to fly on a Concorde and I never got around to it because it got done by the time I got there.
6
SPEAKER_00
But even at a fast, there was a faster one?
6
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
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Like, do you know what I mean?
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It s just like, it s a wow because it s common.
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It doesn t mean it s still not wow.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I think because there s a lot of it, people then disregard the specialness because there s a lot of it.
6
SPEAKER_00
I just don t do that.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, we ve lost that experience of awe and fascination when you have things that surprise you because everything around you is making the most difficult things look easy.
6
SPEAKER_01
AI, VR, like, I mean, today, you know, you could go on and on, like, everything s becoming so accessible.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and the edit art of this kitchen, we call it Island.
6
SPEAKER_00
When you re staying in Is, this is what it is, like, and then like, so when you re in Island,
6
SPEAKER_00
That is amazing, because that, a big metal box that has 300 people with like 800 kilos of luggage going from San Francisco to London is incredible.
6
SPEAKER_00
That is amazing.
6
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And I just kind of, I always go, where am I?
6
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I m in Islam.
6
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Am I there?
6
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Am I there?
6
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Because then you re in just perception land or whatever you think it is or whatever your past pain or whatever, all this crap.
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh crap, it s valid.
6
SPEAKER_00
But like, it s just staying that is.
6
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It s powerful.
6
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With your mindset and the amount of calm and peace there is in your life, internally, internally, you re thinking like a monk, honestly.
6
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Are you serious?
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, because it s the mindset piece, man.
6
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It s the mindset.
6
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I m not guessing, it s the mindset piece.
6
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Every question I ve asked you, the things that have come out of your mouth are peace and calm.
6
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It s come naturally, it s not like you re trying to be Zen.
6
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It s just coming out because that s where you re trying to live.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s what it means in the modern day where we re not trying to live a particular monk life in that sense externally, but there s a sense of peace within, there s a sense of calm within.
6
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I love seeing it in other people.
6
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I always say
6
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One of the other people I saw during an interview was Kobe Bryant.
6
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Like when I sat with him and I interviewed him, he had so much gravitas and so much calm and zen around him.
6
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And he wasn t spewing like verses or trying to sound, you know, spiritual.
6
SPEAKER_01
He wasn t doing that, same way as you re not doing that, but it was a natural part about their presence.
6
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So I respect that.
6
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I love seeing it in other people.
6
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Thank you so much.
6
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I appreciate it.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I mean that.
6
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I want to dive into and I love this idea about what is and what isn t and what could have been, what should have been, what would have been and a lot of us live in that what if.
6
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If someone s listening right now and they re listening to you and I know this for a fact anyone who s listened to you this far today if you re still listening to the episode which I know you are
6
SPEAKER_01
I know that people are going to be moved, I know people are going to be inspired, I know there s a lot of people going to be going, oh my god I didn t know he d been through all of that and you know like skins and like just writing and the challenges and the stress.
6
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What would you like people to know about you that maybe you think they don t know or understand about you that maybe you ve never really been able to talk about or share or express?
6
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I don t know, cause I don t, I struggle with like my perception.
6
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Like I don t really, cause a lot of the fame, it s not like I chose to be this famous.
6
SPEAKER_00
It kind of came as a product of the work and it was a surprise product.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like I did a film and then a year later I was at the Oscars.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, so it was like, it was about all.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m not really, I think I get the vibe where I m like, people don t get me.
6
SPEAKER_00
in America anyway, and then in England, I think people do get me, but they still, cause they get me, they don t understand how I ve done it.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m not really, I ll keep it real.
6
SPEAKER_00
I ve learned how to not be as invested in how people perceive me, but I just not invested in it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Cause then you re consistently
6
SPEAKER_00
Like I curated, like I ve been there.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s like, I m not sitting there, like mine s holier than thou.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like I ve been there, I ve been in there trying to, trying to look a certain way.
6
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You know what I mean?
6
SPEAKER_00
Like, I was just like, well, was I happy or not?
6
SPEAKER_00
So like, I don t know.
6
SPEAKER_00
But if I, from you, if you want to go ask questions and I ll be open to, and I ll be able to elaborate, I would love to, do you know what I m saying?
6
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But for me, I don t go like,
6
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Because if I ve really engaged with people s mentality, I could not get to where I ve got to.
6
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I could not get to where I ve got to.
6
SPEAKER_00
So a lot of that is in that.
6
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Of that kind of being so like, that s what I think.
6
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Do you know what I m saying?
6
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But I m open at the same time as well.
6
SPEAKER_01
Do you know what I m saying?
6
SPEAKER_01
No, no, no, I get what you re saying.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I think that it s tricky because you re right that you can either get so lost in cultivating and crafting and curating
6
SPEAKER_01
how you re perceived and then still people won t perceive you that way, even if you do all of that.
6
SPEAKER_01
Or you can kind of let it go and it kind of flows in its own direction and then you ve made peace with that, which I think is probably the healthier option because at least you can live and breathe.
6
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I ll give you an example, right?
6
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So I was, I remember like I didn t really, like I came in this game, like I didn t watch films.
6
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I watched like Batman and Robin.
6
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So I m not really, I was just living life.
6
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Do you know what I m saying?
6
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I m a kid.
6
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Talking about Val Kilmer.
6
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Yeah, yeah.
6
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We re talking like George Clooney.
6
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Do you know what I m saying?
6
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We were talking like that.
6
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I m watching life, like films that come out, you know what I mean?
6
SPEAKER_00
So when I got into the industry, I was like talking about this art house, from this art house, from this, this, this, this, that and the other.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I remember HMV had this deal where you can like buy one pound, two pound films.
6
SPEAKER_00
So I just buy loads of films and I would just watch all the people that people spoke about that.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like the legends, like Meryl Streep, Dorothy Lewis, like Shane Meadows, Patti Constantine, like all these people that people were like around that time, around 07, that people were just obsessed about.
6
SPEAKER_00
But a lot of watch time watching and then I would go, oh, like, all right, cool, I ll watch your acting performance.
6
SPEAKER_00
All right, okay, that s, you re clearly really good at what you do.
6
SPEAKER_00
But, so what?
6
SPEAKER_00
Like, what for?
6
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
6
SPEAKER_00
And I realized I cared more about that than how great you were at something that was aimless or purposeless.
6
SPEAKER_00
Then I realized great didn t mean anything.
6
SPEAKER_00
Being really great at your job, being really good didn t mean it had no emotion to it.
6
SPEAKER_00
So I suppose it was really great.
6
SPEAKER_00
Then obviously I d watched all those films and I went for that.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then what happens when you go for that, it s a bit of a prison.
6
SPEAKER_00
Then you watch your work back and you re just critiquing yourself.
6
SPEAKER_00
You re not enjoying it.
6
SPEAKER_00
You re just critiquing, critiquing in your head, in your head, in your head, in your head.
6
SPEAKER_00
Then I had to go, yo, I can t keep doing this.
6
SPEAKER_00
I can t, every time I do a job, just kind of.
6
SPEAKER_00
Cause I m always, I always used to be that improv, like think about the whole week.
6
SPEAKER_00
I ll do it improv and the whole week I should have done this.
6
SPEAKER_00
I should have done that.
6
SPEAKER_00
I should have done this, this, this.
6
SPEAKER_00
All right, next week I m gonna go this.
6
SPEAKER_00
I messed up.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then, and I was like, this isn t, this isn t enjoyable.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then I got to a place where I was like, oh, don t try and be good.
6
SPEAKER_00
Try and be honest.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like what I say, truth is what happened.
6
SPEAKER_00
Honesty is how you feel about what happened.
6
SPEAKER_00
So that s how I felt like I was just like, yo, like this is how, this is what I feel like.
6
SPEAKER_00
The minute I go for something that s honest, I ll do something at work.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then a year later you watch it back and you re in a completely different space than you was a year ago.
6
SPEAKER_00
And you wouldn t have done it that way.
6
SPEAKER_00
But I just go, that s how I felt.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s the honesty at that point.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s how I felt.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s where I was at.
6
SPEAKER_00
If I can t, it s not now.
6
SPEAKER_00
Time is as important as you.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like, it s not like, the time is there.
6
SPEAKER_00
The time, like, the time where you was at got you there.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, a lot of jobs is like, I m the best person for the job after the job.
6
SPEAKER_00
Do you know what I m saying?
6
SPEAKER_00
It s like, and you have to make peace.
6
SPEAKER_00
You grew cause you learned how to do it.
6
SPEAKER_00
And now you go, if you give me now and it s like a annoying thing to be in.
6
SPEAKER_00
So, but it s like, you have to go with it.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s how I felt.
6
SPEAKER_00
I was honest.
6
SPEAKER_00
If I was honest, I can always walk away and go put my head up like that s how I felt.
6
SPEAKER_00
And so that s what I go for.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like in terms of everything I go, yo,
6
SPEAKER_00
It s where I m at, man, it s how I feel, man.
6
SPEAKER_00
And if I say something different for years later, like, oh, you know, yeah, I grew in it.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s like, I went through something and then my mentality and my something shift, I changed my mind.
6
SPEAKER_00
So it s not like, that s how really what I engage with now is just going, you know, like,
6
SPEAKER_00
any other like micromanagement of my perception, I m too meticulous for me to really go in that lane.
6
SPEAKER_00
Cause then I will really micromanage it.
6
SPEAKER_00
So then I was like, well, let s just be real.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then, and people that get it will get it, people that don t,
7
SPEAKER_05
they re supposed to do.
7
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I mean, I m glad I asked that question because I love where you took it.
7
SPEAKER_03
And I think what I m intrigued by what you said is what are the projects that you re now, and I don t mean specifics, like I don t need you to name stuff that you re working on, but what is it that you want your work to mean today as you are writing, as you re producing, as you re now in charge of the story?
7
SPEAKER_03
Obviously, you ve been selective over roles you ve played, but I mean, now that you re telling your own stories, writing your own stories, producing them, which you ve been doing since day one,
7
SPEAKER_03
but now doing it at this level, what do you want it to mean?
7
SPEAKER_03
What do you want people to feel?
7
SPEAKER_03
What are the things you d like people to feel?
7
SPEAKER_05
I don t think I can manage it, yeah?
7
SPEAKER_05
Because that will rob them from their experience, right?
7
SPEAKER_05
But what I want people to feel about the stuff I make, write and produce and direct, anything I do in my life, yeah, is to go, someone to take it in,
7
SPEAKER_05
call their friend and go, hey, you seen this?
7
SPEAKER_05
This is mad.
7
SPEAKER_05
And they get points from their friend because they have shared something that, you know what I m saying?
7
SPEAKER_05
It s like, there s a song that s amazing and you re like, this is mad.
7
SPEAKER_05
And then now forever,
7
SPEAKER_05
Like you re going, oh, I introduced you to that.
7
SPEAKER_05
You feel like, yeah, like I got that.
7
SPEAKER_05
Like I want my work to feel like that.
7
SPEAKER_05
I want it to feel, to share it.
7
SPEAKER_05
There s an excitement.
7
SPEAKER_05
There s like, it s a crackle to it.
7
SPEAKER_05
Like I want there to be like, I want it to be shareable.
7
SPEAKER_05
Cause I do think sometimes in a lot of work is there s stuff you share and there s stuff you don t.
7
SPEAKER_05
It could be as good, as great as you want.
7
SPEAKER_05
The stuff that you want to share, the stuff you don t want to share.
7
SPEAKER_05
It s a lot of depressing stuff I do not want to share, but they are excellent.
7
SPEAKER_05
It s incredible.
7
SPEAKER_05
I mean, and you take it, what you take into for whatever reason.
7
SPEAKER_05
And I do love the fact that people go, yo, this is, this makes me feel something.
7
SPEAKER_05
This makes me, this makes me want to move.
7
SPEAKER_05
You know what it is?
7
SPEAKER_05
I want to make music that makes people want to dance.
7
SPEAKER_05
And how, what I mean by that is like, kind of like you can t intellectualize why someone dances.
7
SPEAKER_05
You know what I m saying?
7
SPEAKER_05
It s just, they do, they move.
7
SPEAKER_05
I mean, I want to just move people, move people to go, I m gonna do that.
7
SPEAKER_05
Or I want to do this.
7
SPEAKER_05
like I wanna share this, I wanna, there s something that comes after it.
7
SPEAKER_05
That means you, that s bigger than any adjective.
7
SPEAKER_05
You know what I m saying?
7
SPEAKER_05
Because a lot of times, a lot of people s feelings are just adjectives.
7
SPEAKER_05
They re stuff that you say on Twitter.
7
SPEAKER_05
They re not stuff that s what you re actually feeling.
7
SPEAKER_05
So that s where I m at really.
7
SPEAKER_03
Great answer, man, great answer.
7
SPEAKER_03
The reason why I love that is when I first made my first ever video and people said, why did you make it?
7
SPEAKER_03
I said, because I wanted someone to send it to their friend and say,
7
SPEAKER_03
That s what we were talking about.
7
SPEAKER_03
That s what we were talking about.
7
SPEAKER_03
And I didn t know how to, we didn t know how to, but that video helped explain what I was going through.
7
SPEAKER_03
But Daniel, you ve been amazing.
7
SPEAKER_03
I ve got a final five.
7
SPEAKER_03
We do this with every guest.
7
SPEAKER_03
These final five have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.
7
SPEAKER_03
So Daniel, these are your final five.
7
SPEAKER_03
The first question is what is the best advice you ve ever heard, received or given?
7
SPEAKER_05
I ve got one professionally, but I ve got one personally.
7
SPEAKER_05
I used to reject it as a kid, this advice, but now I m older, I get the more I m realizing how much is my mom is always saying everything matters.
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Everything little matters.
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And I would let out, I wouldn t focus on details.
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I wouldn t focus on details.
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And then now I m old, I m realizing the detail isn t about the detail, this is about what it says about you and how easily you can show up on everything else if you just practice simple details.
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And she goes, everything little matters.
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She says, everything little matters.
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I think that.
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I love that.
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That s great, man.
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We never had that and I fully agree.
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All right, question number two.
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What is the worst advice you ve ever heard, received or given?
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I can t remember specific, but I can remember how it made me feel and how I reacted to it in my head when they said it, when they basically were just saying, accept less.
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Basically what the principle was.
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And I think I just erase it when people say that.
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I go, you know, you re not supposed to like, you know, this or that person deserves, basically they re basing that person deserves more.
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I think everyone deserves more.
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I love that.
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Do you know what I mean?
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It s not like, I just believe.
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So if you decide that you want more than you can get, if you don t, then chill.
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Do you know what I mean?
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It s not like, and I feel like when people are communicating, subconsciously communicating a hierarchy that they win out of, that doesn t benefit me, I just go, you re chatting rubbish.
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But like, I think it s accept less.
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Love that.
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All right, question number three.
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What s the first thing you do when you wake up and the last thing you do when you go to bed?
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Pray, pray.
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What s the prayer?
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Just thanks.
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Thanks.
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I got into that.
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I used to, as my mum, as a kid, she made me read the Bible every night.
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Used to read a proverb a day, you know, they got like 31 chapters in there.
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I used to read it as a kid.
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And then I don t know, I got into a place.
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I was just like, nah, man.
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There was one time I had to audition.
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I really wanted this audition.
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I weren t really on there with that.
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And I really wanted this audition.
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I just prayed.
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Who am I chatting to?
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What is going on here?
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I was in New York.
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I remember I really wanted it.
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Why did I feel to do that?
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And I just ignored it and just kind of carried on my life.
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It was like 2016, 2015.
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I was like, yeah.
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And then like, I think I got to a place and I was like, you know what?
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It makes me just stay.
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Yeah, man.
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Thanks.
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Focus on what I thank and like what I m grateful for.
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And then like humility.
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Cause my ego can get wild sometimes.
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So it teaches me how to just chill and listen to myself.
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Yeah.
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I think God s in you.
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I don t think it s God s above you.
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It s not big brother, 1984.
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I love that.
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I m going to take that as question four because I followed up.
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Fifth and final question.
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If you could create one law in the world that everyone had to follow, what would it be?
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If you have been proven in one way, shape or form to hate someone or a group of people, your punishment is to live with them for a year.
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anyone, even like Twitter hate, anything.
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Go on then.
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You do your, that s like nine to five or whatever, boom, boom, boom.
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You go live with them for a year and just be in there.
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I think that s just off top, I really like it.
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Yeah, that s a great answer, man.
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Yeah, I like that a lot.
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Yeah, that s all that is.
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I like that you went there.
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That s a great answer.
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That s dope.
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Thank you, man.
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If you love this episode, you ll really enjoy my episode with Selena Gomez on befriending your inner critic and how to speak to yourself with more compassion.
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My fears are only going to continue to show me what I m capable of.
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The more that I face my fears, the more that I feel I m gaining strength, I m gaining wisdom, and I just want to keep doing that.
7
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Parents, if you ve ever experienced bedtime battles with the kids, I m gonna let you into a little secret.
7
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The Koala Moon podcast has revolutionized over 20 million bedtimes, with parents like you calling it life-changing and the perfect nighttime routine.
7
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With original kids  bedtime stories and cozy sleep meditations, every episode has been specially designed to make bedtimes a dream.
7
SPEAKER_02
Listen to Koala Moon on the iHeartRadio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
7
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Hey, everybody, welcome to Across Generations, where the voices of Black women unite.
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I m your host, Tiffany Cross.
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Join me and be a part of sisterhood, friendship, wisdom, and laughter.
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We gather a seasoned elder, myself as the middle generation, and a vibrant young soul for engaging intergenerational conversations, prepare to engage or hear perspectives that literally no one else has had.
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Listen to Across Generations podcasts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
7
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The Black Effect presents Family Therapy, and I m your host, Elliot Connick.
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Jay is the woman in this dynamic who is currently co-parenting two young boys with her former partner, David.
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David, he is a leader.
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He just don t want to leave me.
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But how do you lead a woman?
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How do you lead in a relationship?
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Like, what s the blue part?
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David, you just asked the most important question.
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Listen to Family Therapy on the Black Effect podcast network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.