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SPEAKER_02
 To each they own, but I'm in my zone And I'm all by myself, I am not no clone I'm here with Lewis Howes, on the school of greatness We all about the real, never kickin' no fakeness Y'all know I got the rhymes that'll leave them shook It's H-Mack off the brain, never written in books Let's go!
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SPEAKER_00
 Welcome to the School of Greatness.
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SPEAKER_00
My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur.
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And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness.
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SPEAKER_00
Thanks for spending some time with me today.
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SPEAKER_00
Now let the class begin.
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SPEAKER_00
 So you wanna give me three words then?
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SPEAKER_01
Sure, yeah, give me three words.
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SPEAKER_01
Or whatever you are more comfortable with.
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SPEAKER_01
You can either give me three at the top, or you can just lob them to me as we go.
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SPEAKER_01
As we go?
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SPEAKER_01
Just as many as you want.
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SPEAKER_00
Jeez, I'll give you three at the top.
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SPEAKER_00
Okay, let's do that.
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SPEAKER_00
I don't know if I'm gonna be that creative.
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SPEAKER_00
I'm looking at Muhammad Ali, so does that count as one word?
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, of course, yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Muhammad Ali, Ohio.
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SPEAKER_00
Ohio, got it.
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SPEAKER_00
And...
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SPEAKER_00
 Love.
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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SPEAKER_01
Yes.
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SPEAKER_01
All right.
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SPEAKER_01
Muhammad Ali, Ohio, and love.
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SPEAKER_01
Those are the three words.
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SPEAKER_01
We rolling?
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
Let's go.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_02
 You got, you got, come on, yeah, check, look H-Mack off the top, I'm kickin' the raw free Like I'm swingin' in the ring with Muhammad Ali Yeah, I got the truth inside, I gotta state this Focus on Muhammad Ali, we talkin' greatness
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SPEAKER_02
 It's H-Mack when I spit, I'm stayin' locked in My lyrics swing kinda like if I was boxin' I make it happen, I'ma be a master today I be the greatest like cash is clay And speakin' of clay, I'ma mold these rhymes, I mold your brain Every time I'm holdin' mine, I make it happen H-Mack, I blow your mind with the verse Word to cash is clay, cause I built this from the earth Yeah, I make it happen, y'all know what I'm bout H-Mack gettin' busy when I'm all up on my route
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SPEAKER_02
 I'm coming off the tip with these fly flows I rock my shows from L.A.
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SPEAKER_02
to Ohio Anywhere we at, these mics roll, get thrown down I might have to rock a show up in your hometown This H-Mack, you know I got the truest style I mean, I'm on the School of Greatness with Lewis Howes All up in it, yo, we made it on the podcast H-Mack coming off the top with the raw blast The lyrics and information, win by every indication Yeah, about to get the TV show in syndication
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SPEAKER_02
 Every obstacle, we quick to rise above.
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And when I see another human being, I don't judge.
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I know we struggle, and that's where push comes to shove.
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So I spit it from my heart, and I represent love.
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SPEAKER_02
I know for people all around the planet, it ain't easy.
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SPEAKER_02
So I'd rather try to channel that L-O-V-E.
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_02
Y'all know I'm trying to help you understand.
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SPEAKER_02
 To anyone low, I'ma reach out my hand Knowing I can't win unless everybody's winning I wish I had that same mindset from the beginning It takes time, but over time by learning these lessons I expanded my mind, we call that progression It's love from the heart, love from the soul Love for these rhymes, love for these flows And I love to control the mic that I hold Rather have love for the soul than love for the platinum Love for the watch, love for the gold It's not about the material
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SPEAKER_02
 I be gettin' lyrical, Grand Imperial, H-Mack workin' a miracle, y'all know I had to come through right now, school of greatness, Harry Mack, Lewis, Miles.
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SPEAKER_02
Oh, snap!
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SPEAKER_00
How long were you doing the jazz drumming before you got into freestyle rapping?
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SPEAKER_01
Well, I started playing the drums at the same time that I started rapping.
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SPEAKER_01
They both came into my world when I was about 10 years old.
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SPEAKER_01
Okay.
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SPEAKER_01
And I started
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 performing both as a drummer and a rapper at some point in middle school.
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SPEAKER_01
So I did my first professional jazz gig at a farmer's market in Portland, Oregon, where I'm from.
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SPEAKER_01
I was part of a community youth jazz band up in Portland, and we got a gig
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SPEAKER_01
 I don't know if it paid now that I think about it.
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SPEAKER_01
Maybe I can't call it a professional gig, but I was 13 years old, you know, we played out at a farmer's market and then simultaneously I was rapping in a group that I had that started back when I was 11 or 12 years old with my best friends in middle school called State of Mind.
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SPEAKER_01
A rap group.
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SPEAKER_00
That's right.
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SPEAKER_00
In middle school.
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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SPEAKER_00
 Now I'm curious, how do you create confidence within yourself to do something that maybe you weren't supposed to be doing, freestyle rapping, and to do this in public for strangers a lot?
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SPEAKER_00
How do you get the confidence?
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SPEAKER_00
 Which which I think is one of the key things that a lot of people are missing in life in general Yeah on how to have confidence to ask someone out on a date or to go for the career They want but you like public speaking was the biggest fear for me Yeah, I'm up and you kind of have to do this.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah to express your talent.
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SPEAKER_00
How did you learn how to overcome the fear of?
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SPEAKER_00
Humiliation embarrassment looking silly messing up and gain that confidence man.
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SPEAKER_01
That's a great question I think
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SPEAKER_01
 One of the most important things for me is confidence comes through experience.
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SPEAKER_01
And I'm lucky in that I've been performing since I was a little kid.
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SPEAKER_01
My first instrument was the violin.
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SPEAKER_01
I started playing when I was seven years old.
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SPEAKER_01
And I'll always remember my first violin recital.
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SPEAKER_01
And the reason I'll always remember it is because I didn't play.
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SPEAKER_01
Because instead I just cried the entire time.
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SPEAKER_01
Because I was so scared.
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SPEAKER_01
How many people were there?
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SPEAKER_01
 Oh, all the parents and, you know, some grandparents and aunts and uncles and... 50 or 100 people?
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SPEAKER_00
Sure, yeah, 50 or 100 people.
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SPEAKER_00
Was it a school recital?
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SPEAKER_01
It was this place called the Community Music Center in Portland, where I'm from.
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SPEAKER_01
So that's where I took violin lessons and, you know, every quarter or so, the teacher would put on a recital for all the students.
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SPEAKER_00
So the first time you didn't play anything, you just stood there and cried?
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SPEAKER_01
 That was my first public performance opportunity.
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SPEAKER_01
I cried the whole time.
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SPEAKER_01
I didn't even actually make it onto the stage.
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SPEAKER_01
I just sat with my parents and cried.
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SPEAKER_01
The teacher kind of looked over and was like, it's not going to happen, right?
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SPEAKER_01
And my parents were like, yeah, it's probably not going to happen.
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SPEAKER_01
This guy won't stop crying.
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SPEAKER_01
So I say that just to say that.
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SPEAKER_01
 that I wasn't some kind of born performer.
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SPEAKER_01
The confidence that I have now wasn't gifted to me at birth by a long shot.
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SPEAKER_01
It's something that I've worked through over time and something that I still actually have to a large degree.
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SPEAKER_01
When I perform today, I still get nervous before I go out on stage.
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SPEAKER_01
Oh, definitely.
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SPEAKER_01
When we go out in public, like you're mentioning, and I have a series called Gorilla Bars on YouTube, which is essentially me going out in public and rapping for strangers.
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SPEAKER_01
 And I get very nervous at the beginning of those days, you know, less so now because I've done it so many times and I know that it's going to be OK.
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SPEAKER_01
You know, I have data that I can look back on.
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SPEAKER_01
I have videos.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, exactly.
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SPEAKER_01
I have results and the videos exist online.
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SPEAKER_01
And so at a certain point, you kind of have to look at that and say, OK, stop being crazy.
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SPEAKER_01
You know, it's going to be OK.
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SPEAKER_01
Right.
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SPEAKER_01
 But definitely that sort of feeling of nervousness, the increased heart rate, the shortness of breath, the feeling like this is crazy, why am I going to put myself out in these sort of situations, why am I going to expose myself to this kind of judgment is tough.
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SPEAKER_01
One other thing that comes to mind, you know, when you ask about
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SPEAKER_01
 how to sort of gain the confidence to do something that maybe, you know, you're not necessarily supposed to be doing or something that's destructive, you know, like going up to strangers in a public place and saying, hey, let me rap for you.
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SPEAKER_01
I feel very grateful that I started freestyling when I was a kid.
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I started when I was 10 or 11 years old.
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SPEAKER_01
And at that age, I think, at least for me, and I think for a lot of people, we're just a lot less judgmental of ourselves.
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SPEAKER_01
Less fearful.
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SPEAKER_00
 Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
Just goofing around, being silly, having fun, trying stuff.
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SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
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SPEAKER_01
Experimenting.
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SPEAKER_01
Right.
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SPEAKER_01
Like for me as a 10 year old, I'm in love with this music called hip hop, you know, at a visceral level.
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SPEAKER_01
I'm in love with the way that it makes me feel, you know, the low end of the bass and the drums smacking hard and this vocal that even though I don't necessarily understand what the rappers are talking about a lot of the time at that age, the way the message is delivered feels so important and it's just gripping.
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SPEAKER_01
 And so I'm in love with this music, and for me, as a 10-year-old at that time, it wasn't like some big decision that, oh, now I'm gonna start rapping.
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SPEAKER_01
It was like, yeah, of course I'm gonna play around and try to rap, you know?
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SPEAKER_01
I'm 10, and that sounds super fun to me, and I love this thing, and why would I not try my hand at it?
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SPEAKER_01
At that age, it's almost like finger painting.
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SPEAKER_01
 when you're in preschool or something.
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SPEAKER_01
No preschooler does a finger painting the whole time being like, oh, is this good?
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SPEAKER_01
Is anyone gonna like this?
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SPEAKER_01
I wonder, what's the point?
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SPEAKER_01
Why am I even doing this?
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SPEAKER_01
Maybe this isn't for me.
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SPEAKER_01
No preschooler is doing that while they're finger painting.
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SPEAKER_01
They're just getting messy and having fun being creative.
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 And so I think for anybody at any age, because somebody might be listening to this and saying, well, that's great, but I didn't start when I was 10.
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SPEAKER_01
And I've done a lot of teaching, both drum lessons and working with freestylers and aspiring rappers.
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I've taught a lot of private lessons and also done some group stuff in schools.
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 But when I'm working with people who are a little older, maybe in their 20s or 30s or even older than that, I think one really important thing to keep in mind is as much as possible, if you can try to channel that inner child when you're practicing and when you're in the beginning, when you're sort of getting comfortable with this idea of doing something that feels crazy, like doing a freestyle, your first ever freestyle, if you can take the pressure off and not judge it and start finger painting, make it like finger painting.
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Do something bad on purpose.
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SPEAKER_01
 You know what I mean?
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Don't try to be good, make a sound.
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SPEAKER_01
Why do you think it's so hard for people to be bad on purpose?
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SPEAKER_01
I think as we get older, as we grow up, I think especially probably in Western society, but in modern society in general.
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SPEAKER_01
 I think we get a lot of messaging along the way, whether it's from parents or teachers, that we kind of have to prove our worth through our output.
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SPEAKER_01
Like if you get a good grade, well, that's great.
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SPEAKER_01
You're going to be celebrated.
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SPEAKER_01
If you get a bad grade, well, now you're going to be in trouble.
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SPEAKER_01
And until you get that good grade, it's kind of like you have to earn that love in that moment.
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SPEAKER_01
 And we get those messages throughout our lives, and I feel like the pressure behind those messages only increases over time.
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SPEAKER_01
Now you gotta try to get into a college if that's the path you're on, and then you graduate from college and you have to enter the workforce, and you're not gonna be able to make a lot of money until you prove yourself and move up that structure.
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SPEAKER_01
There's just this sort of feeling that putting out something into the world that's not of the utmost quality is somehow gonna take away from your personal self-worth as a human being.
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SPEAKER_01
And that's not actually the case.
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SPEAKER_01
 I always would tell my students, it's important to remember that nobody is ever gonna get hurt by your bad freestyle.
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SPEAKER_01
You know what I mean?
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SPEAKER_01
And nobody's ever gonna die, not even close.
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SPEAKER_01
They're not even gonna feel any sense of pain whatsoever.
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SPEAKER_01
It won't cause any real world problem for any other human being on earth.
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SPEAKER_01
But why do we put the pain on ourselves when we fail or are embarrassed?
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SPEAKER_01
 Yeah, it's a good question, man.
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SPEAKER_01
I mean, I do think it's because of the way that society sort of puts these messages out to us that our self-worth is dependent on what we do.
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SPEAKER_01
And so people decide early on.
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SPEAKER_01
I also think another thing that goes along with this is the way that music is taught, and probably other art forms as well, or anything that might be under the umbrella of creative work,
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SPEAKER_01
 It's sort of taught in this way where you, OK, let's say you want to be a musician and you're a child.
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SPEAKER_01
Then often, very quickly, your parent will say, OK, well, maybe, but we're going to have to get you some music lessons.
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SPEAKER_01
We're going to have to get you with a professional so that you can learn the right way to be creative.
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SPEAKER_01
 Right.
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SPEAKER_01
When in reality, every every child is creative.
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SPEAKER_01
Like I was banging rhythms on my high chair tray, you know, and I didn't need anybody to give me permission to do that.
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SPEAKER_03
Sure.
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SPEAKER_01
And nobody.
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SPEAKER_01
And but what so often happens is the child is banging rhythms on the high chair tray and then the parent intervenes and says, oh, maybe you're interested in music.
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SPEAKER_01
Stop that, because that's probably not right.
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SPEAKER_01
Let's go structure it.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
 We'll get you with a professional who will show you the right way to do this.
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SPEAKER_01
And then so often what happens is maybe the student gets paired with a teacher, maybe it's not the best fit, or maybe it's not the best teacher, who knows?
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SPEAKER_01
Or maybe it's just the wrong time for that child to be learning in that particular way, and they struggle in those lessons.
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SPEAKER_01
 And they don't necessarily get very far.
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SPEAKER_01
And then they get frustrated, because suddenly what was a very intuitive expression of creativity is now, it's like, that's not it.
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SPEAKER_01
And you have to do this now, right?
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SPEAKER_01
Sure.
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SPEAKER_01
And so that's frustrating to a lot of young students, I think.
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SPEAKER_01
And then what ends up happening is they decide at that point, well, music's not for me.
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SPEAKER_01
Interesting.
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SPEAKER_01
 or this creative expression is not for me, or art or anything, or even somebody who wants to create a podcast or build out a business like you've done, I think a lot of people have already decided, well, I'm not creative, therefore I can't do that.
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SPEAKER_01
And I don't actually think that's the case at all.
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SPEAKER_01
I think, again, it's just this, from a very early age, you're getting these messages that there's a right way to be creative and a wrong way, and you have to be taught the right way.
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SPEAKER_01
 And and I think that sort of gatekeeping almost to creativity causes a lot of people to be turned off from it now Now, how did you learn to overcome failure then, you know with with?
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SPEAKER_00
Because you were into freestyle rapping when you were 10 12 13 in your teens Yeah, I didn't pursue that as the next thing for you.
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SPEAKER_00
You pursued jazz drumming.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, essentially and
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SPEAKER_00
 And then for what, about 10 years, you were doing like $50, $100 gigs for jazz drumming around LA trying to make a living.
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SPEAKER_00
Which you never really, let's say, made it financially.
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SPEAKER_00
But you were living the dream.
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SPEAKER_00
You were playing professionally.
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SPEAKER_00
You were getting paid to play in front of people, which is pretty sweet.
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SPEAKER_00
How did you learn to overcome the failures that would come?
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SPEAKER_01
 That's a great question.
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SPEAKER_01
You know what?
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SPEAKER_01
For me, I've always had such a strong passion for music my entire life that regardless of what happened in terms of my music career, so to speak,
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SPEAKER_01
 I feel like I've identified as a musician since I was very young.
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SPEAKER_01
My parents tell me stories about, you know, I used to love classic blues, Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf.
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SPEAKER_01
My dad would make me cassette tapes with those artists on them.
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SPEAKER_01
And I loved them as a kid.
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SPEAKER_01
And then there were times, like before I was even walking, Muddy Waters or Howlin' Wolf would come on the radio and it'd start vibrating.
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SPEAKER_01
 I don't remember that, but that's what they tell me.
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SPEAKER_01
I would crawl to the speaker, and like I said, I would play drums on my high chair tray.
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SPEAKER_01
I've always felt very connected to music.
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SPEAKER_01
 You know, violin was my first instrument.
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SPEAKER_01
Then I went to the drums.
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SPEAKER_01
Then I started rapping.
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SPEAKER_01
And there's been all these sort of different chapters in my life of how I've sort of expressed my musicality.
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SPEAKER_01
And it hasn't always been the same.
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SPEAKER_01
And it's morphed.
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SPEAKER_01
And it's changed.
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SPEAKER_01
And there have been times where, you know, I had to have a job that wasn't music.
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SPEAKER_01
You know, I worked at a call center for about four years.
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SPEAKER_01
Really?
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SPEAKER_01
Here in LA?
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SPEAKER_01
 Yeah at my alma mater at USC.
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SPEAKER_01
I called the alumni and asked for charity which was a very Challenging, you know in many ways soul-sucking job that actually taught me a lot though.
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SPEAKER_00
I think a lot of important I mean to ask for money as an artist is hard to do too.
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SPEAKER_00
Yes like to learn to sell Yourself.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah to sell your art your music.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, say buy a ticket you buy a CD whatever it is and
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SPEAKER_00
 That takes courage.
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SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
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SPEAKER_00
And most artists don't want to sell.
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SPEAKER_01
Right.
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SPEAKER_01
Right.
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SPEAKER_01
I think there's a stigma around selling as an artist a lot of the time.
0
SPEAKER_01
You know, there's this idea that you shouldn't have to promote yourself, which is totally crazy.
0
SPEAKER_01
Of course, you should promote yourself, you know, as a musician.
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SPEAKER_01
I mean, I'm a musician, but I'm also an entrepreneur.
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SPEAKER_01
You know, I want to do I'm so in love with music.
0
SPEAKER_01
I want it to be what I'm able to do full time with my life, you know.
0
SPEAKER_01
 And in order to be able to do that, I have to build a business around my music.
0
SPEAKER_01
So I think, yeah, learning how to ask for money, essentially, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
Learning how to promote, learning how to build rapport with strangers, learning how to network, lessons like that.
0
SPEAKER_01
And also learning how to, like you say, get comfortable with rejection.
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SPEAKER_01
I mean, working at that call center was a crash course, man.
0
SPEAKER_01
I used to be so uncomfortable on the phone.
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SPEAKER_01
How often were you getting rejected or said no to?
0
SPEAKER_01
 All day, all the time.
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SPEAKER_01
And the funny thing is, I was set up to call the music school, because that's the school that I went to.
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SPEAKER_01
Oh, and they got no money.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
They got no money.
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SPEAKER_01
Right.
0
SPEAKER_01
Or they're not working in music, and they spent a lot of money on a music degree, and now they're selling insurance, or whatever it might be, and maybe there's some resentment there.
0
SPEAKER_01
They're like, screw USC.
0
SPEAKER_01
Didn't get me anything.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
USC didn't help me.
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SPEAKER_01
I'll never donate back, and all those kinds of things.
0
SPEAKER_01
It was great for me.
0
SPEAKER_01
It was great for me, even though I didn't
0
SPEAKER_01
 really enjoy being there because I would rather be playing the drums or rapping.
0
SPEAKER_01
I gained so much from it.
0
SPEAKER_00
What were the three biggest lessons from being told no and rejection for four years at a call center?
0
SPEAKER_01
 I think the three biggest lessons, number one, I learned to just sort of let rejection roll over me.
0
SPEAKER_01
I learned to not take it personally.
0
SPEAKER_01
Because after spending even just a few days in a call center, you will learn that it's not personal, it's not about you, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
Rejection is the name of the game.
0
SPEAKER_01
You're gonna get rejected most of the time.
0
SPEAKER_01
 And then maybe one out of 20 calls, you'll get a donation, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
So the job is basically rejection.
0
SPEAKER_01
And so if you take that personally, you're not going to last more than a week.
0
SPEAKER_01
So I quickly learned to not take it personally.
0
SPEAKER_01
And that's probably the most important important lesson.
0
SPEAKER_01
And that's helped me in a lot of other areas of life as well.
0
SPEAKER_01
The second big lesson from the call center, I think, is
0
SPEAKER_01
 You don't know to what degree people can help you unless you ask.
0
SPEAKER_01
Give me an example.
0
SPEAKER_01
When I first started training for the job, they told me the first amount of money you're going to ask for is $250.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I couldn't believe that I would ask a stranger over the phone for that much money.
0
SPEAKER_01
And that's not some crazy amount of money.
0
SPEAKER_01
But for me in college at that time especially, and in general, just for a stranger on the phone to ask you for $250, it seemed crazy to me.
0
SPEAKER_01
 And so I was so intimidated just by that fact that I had to start the call by asking for $250.
0
SPEAKER_01
And sure enough.
0
SPEAKER_01
 you know, not every time, maybe not even every day, but every couple days, somebody would say, yeah, sure, I can donate $250.
0
SPEAKER_01
I enjoyed my time at USC.
0
SPEAKER_01
I'll do that.
0
SPEAKER_01
Here's my credit card info.
0
SPEAKER_01
And so I think, you know, we have these sort of like limiting beliefs, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
That, oh, no one would ever give $250.
0
SPEAKER_01
And granted, it wasn't, they weren't giving it to me, they were giving it to USC.
0
SPEAKER_01
But applying that now, you know, when I'm building a business and, you know,
0
SPEAKER_01
 It's like, I don't know to what degree my fans are willing to support or I don't know to what degree other people might be willing to join my team and support, you know, unless I ask.
0
SPEAKER_01
And if I have this belief in my head, like, well, nobody's going to do that.
0
SPEAKER_01
Nobody's going to come work for me as a full-time video editor.
0
SPEAKER_01
Why would they?
0
SPEAKER_01
Why me?
0
SPEAKER_01
Why would they do that?
0
SPEAKER_01
A lot of times we have these sort of self-doubt to these limiting beliefs.
0
SPEAKER_01
And so that's something that I got from the call center is that, you know, all you have to do is ask.
0
SPEAKER_01
And the worst that's going to happen is they'll say no.
0
SPEAKER_00
Right.
0
SPEAKER_01
And you don't have to take that personally.
0
SPEAKER_00
 and learn how to not take it personally.
0
SPEAKER_00
Okay, cool.
0
SPEAKER_00
What's the third thing?
0
SPEAKER_01
Well, the third biggest thing for me that I gained from the call center was essentially learning how to network with other people, learning how to talk to other people.
0
SPEAKER_01
 I wasn't anti-social necessarily.
0
SPEAKER_01
Were you introverted though?
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and I still am.
0
SPEAKER_01
There's the performer Harry Mack that goes out in public and asks people to freestyle for him.
0
SPEAKER_00
The extrovert who's the performer, but the rest of you is more of an introvert.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
At the end of the day, I prefer to read a book.
0
SPEAKER_01
You don't like people.
0
SPEAKER_01
 I love people but you know, I need a I need to recharge alone.
0
SPEAKER_00
Sure.
0
SPEAKER_00
It's a lot of energy.
0
SPEAKER_00
I'm sure yeah be that creative to Also overcome your fear every time if you're going out in public and talking to strangers and saying hey Do you want me to freestyle rap for you?
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, like get away from me.
0
SPEAKER_00
I'm trying to get to the store or whatever I don't know who you are.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah, it takes a lot of courage and energy and thought and creativity Absolutely, even if you've done it for decades, it still takes energy and effort.
0
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely
0
SPEAKER_01
 Absolutely.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it does.
0
SPEAKER_01
I mean, at the end of a day of shooting guerrilla bars where we're out in public doing what you just mentioned, I'm exhausted.
0
SPEAKER_01
Drained, probably.
0
SPEAKER_01
I'm completely drained.
0
SPEAKER_01
How long do you go for?
0
SPEAKER_00
It depends.
0
SPEAKER_00
We'll be out there for three or four hours, maybe.
0
SPEAKER_00
But it's the rejection, and then it's the highs, right?
0
SPEAKER_00
You get both sides of it, and it's managing the energy of both, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, and it's in this, if we get the yes, and we're able to do a performance, within that three minutes and 30 seconds of me performing, I'm giving everything.
0
SPEAKER_01
 You're in the zone.
0
SPEAKER_01
And such a high level of focus.
0
SPEAKER_01
I mean, it's very mentally taxing.
0
SPEAKER_01
Although it happens in a very short frame of time, it's a sprint.
0
SPEAKER_00
It's a mental sprint.
0
SPEAKER_00
I don't even know how you do this, but I'm assuming you've got...
0
SPEAKER_00
 I don't want to actually assume, but I would think that you would have a vocabulary of words that you know, here's 30 words that all rhyme, or 10 words that all rhyme, and there's somewhere in your mind, I think people call it like the mental castle or something, where there's places in your mind where these words can be stored, where you can tap into in different places in your mind and link together.
0
SPEAKER_00
And that is an incredible skill
0
SPEAKER_00
 that people can learn how to do, but it just takes a lot of effort and energy to master that.
0
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
0
SPEAKER_00
You see people doing that with like counting numbers or cards or names and memorizing things.
0
SPEAKER_00
It's like, it is a gift, man.
0
SPEAKER_01
Man, thank you.
0
SPEAKER_01
No, it's really a lot of fun and it's exactly how you described it.
0
SPEAKER_01
It's a vocabulary.
0
SPEAKER_01
You know, being a freestyler is completely different than
0
SPEAKER_01
 you know, if I were writing songs and making albums in a more traditional sort of format.
0
SPEAKER_01
Because in that sense, you're taking time to, you know, pen something and revise it, maybe get it to a place where you're happy with it, and then you're committing it to memory.
0
SPEAKER_01
And it's always essentially coming back out the same way.
0
SPEAKER_01
 What I'm doing is I'm attempting to develop a language, my own personal language and vocabulary.
0
SPEAKER_00
And adding music and tonality and all these different elements to make it rhythmic and pop and be unique, not just let me rhyme and monotone.
0
SPEAKER_00
 flow in a different way.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
And by the way, that's not to take away from the great songwriters of the genre as well, many of whom I love, you know, and have influenced the way that I rap.
0
SPEAKER_01
So I love Nas, you know, I love Kendrick Lamar, I love Eminem, I love, you know, Jay-Z, Biggie.
0
SPEAKER_01
 I love these artists and they're my heroes.
0
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, it's a different part of the brain and it's a different approach because my goal is to be able to rap about anything at any moment.
0
SPEAKER_01
So if we have a conversation and we touch on certain things or maybe you, you know, Lewis, you teach me something, drop a concept on me that I hadn't thought about before, you know.
0
SPEAKER_01
 I wanna be able to say, huh, you know, okay, let me put a beat on and rap about that.
0
SPEAKER_01
And the only way that I'll be able to do that successfully is if I have this vocabulary that I'm comfortable with.
0
SPEAKER_00
And it's- So how big of a vocabulary is it that you have?
0
SPEAKER_00
And are there different buckets of rhyming words that you put in there?
0
SPEAKER_00
Like, I'm just- Yes, 100%.
0
SPEAKER_00
I have no idea how this works.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I don't know exactly how large the vocabulary is.
0
SPEAKER_01
 it's funny people people will say to me like oh like you must be a genius you know like you have this insane vocabulary i don't actually think that's true like i know people who use way bigger college words than the conversation all the time i have to say what does that mean you know um so i don't think it's actually about the size of my like
0
SPEAKER_01
 regular vocabulary, how most people would talk about vocabulary, right?
0
SPEAKER_01
Like the words you know.
0
SPEAKER_01
But I think what I've practiced and the skill that serves me as a freestyler is that I have quick access and deep familiarity with the vocabulary that I do possess.
0
SPEAKER_01
So I know how to grab the words that I do use quick.
0
SPEAKER_01
 quickly and I can find the right ones for the given moment.
0
SPEAKER_01
And your question about rhyming buckets sort of is one way to think about it.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yes, 100%.
0
SPEAKER_01
Over time, the first time you try to freestyle about coffee, you might quickly discover you don't have one single word that rhymes with coffee.
0
SPEAKER_01
What rhymes with that?
0
SPEAKER_01
And that will manifest when you say, yo, I'm sitting here sipping on the coffee.
0
SPEAKER_01
 So that used to happen all the time.
0
SPEAKER_01
When I was young, oh yeah, my first freestyles were not good.
0
SPEAKER_01
I've practiced.
0
SPEAKER_01
I've gained my skills over time through practice.
0
SPEAKER_01
And then maybe you go home and think about it, what rhymes with coffee?
0
SPEAKER_01
And then eventually you think, oh, stop me.
0
SPEAKER_01
 can't nobody stop me that could be a useful rhyme with coffee and then eventually over time you have coffee and probably and watch me and cacophony as a slant stretch rhyme you know and not for free or whatever yeah exactly there you go yes yes so it's adding two words that make it rhyme maybe not one word or something yeah
0
SPEAKER_01
 Exactly, and you start to build that up with a range of words.
0
SPEAKER_01
And you start to commit them to memory the more that you use them.
0
SPEAKER_01
And so in that sense, it really is a language.
0
SPEAKER_01
I like to remind people, we're improvising right now.
0
SPEAKER_01
We're freestyling right now, utilizing our language.
0
SPEAKER_01
 And we're not overthinking it.
0
SPEAKER_01
We don't have a plan.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like, I don't know what you're gonna ask me.
0
SPEAKER_01
You don't know what I'm gonna say back.
0
SPEAKER_01
And many of the things- It's jazz.
0
SPEAKER_00
It's live jazz.
0
SPEAKER_01
It's live jazz.
0
SPEAKER_01
Or it's a freestyle cypher session.
0
SPEAKER_01
And what's so cool about that is like,
0
SPEAKER_01
 We're not completely reinventing the wheel with every single thing we say.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like if I sit down, you might say, hey, welcome to School of Greatness.
0
SPEAKER_01
I'm happy to have you here.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I'm going to say, oh, thanks, Louis.
0
SPEAKER_01
It's really an honor to be here.
0
SPEAKER_01
And sentences with basically that exact same structure have been said.
0
SPEAKER_01
 millions of times, you know?
0
SPEAKER_01
And it's the same when I'm freestyling.
0
SPEAKER_01
It's not that I'm completely creating from scratch every single time and trying to make something brand new.
0
SPEAKER_01
It's just the fact that I don't have a plan and I'm fully open to going in any direction and I'm gonna use the vocabulary that I do have and the words that I have and my fluency in this sort of language of rap to communicate to the best that I can in that moment what it is I'm trying to say.
0
SPEAKER_00
Right, it's really cool, man.
0
SPEAKER_00
 Thank you.
0
SPEAKER_00
But for how many years were you doing the jazz drumming for?
0
SPEAKER_01
From age 10 till... I mean professionally.
0
SPEAKER_00
Professionally, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_01
I went to school for jazz at USC.
0
SPEAKER_01
I graduated in 2012 and I gigged around LA from 2012 to 2017.
0
SPEAKER_01
Gotcha, okay.
0
SPEAKER_00
And then you decided to... were you still doing the freestyle rapping thing at the time?
0
SPEAKER_00
Just kind of like for fun with friends?
0
SPEAKER_01
 Yeah, I sort of fell victim to this thing that I think a lot of people might go through who go to college and earn a degree.
0
SPEAKER_01
My degree was in jazz studies, and I was a drummer on paper.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I did love playing the drums.
0
SPEAKER_01
I really did, and I love jazz music.
0
SPEAKER_01
I still do.
0
SPEAKER_01
 But my heart and my creative voice was really in hip-hop.
0
SPEAKER_01
Really?
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
Even before you went to USC?
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I think so.
0
SPEAKER_01
I think hip-hop is the first music that grabbed me directly.
0
SPEAKER_01
My dad was a jazz fan.
0
SPEAKER_01
 And he had this incredible collection of CDs and albums from the jazz greats, Miles Davis and Coltrane, and people like that.
0
SPEAKER_01
And he gifted that music to me.
0
SPEAKER_01
He shared that music with me, and that was an incredible gift.
0
SPEAKER_01
I'm really grateful that he did that.
0
SPEAKER_01
And I do love jazz.
0
SPEAKER_00
But it doesn't speak to your heart the same way hip hop does.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.