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I m David Farrier, a New Zealander accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick.
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Now, we ve done a few food episodes in this show because, let s face it, Americans love eating.
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From pizza to hot dogs to burgers, America is as passionate about its diet as it is about its flag.
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But there s been an important food item missing from the flightless bird food chain.
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A hole, so to speak.
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A donut hole, if you will.
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It s a cold hard fact that Americans eat over 10 billion doughnuts every year.
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Each American listening to this podcast will gobble down an average of 63 doughnuts each over the coming year.
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I wanted to understand America s relationship to the doughnut, from the giant chains to the smaller stand-alone stores.
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I wanted to know if cops really do feast on doughnuts all day, and why Biafleck is always snapped with handfuls of Dunkin  Donuts products in public, like some kind of doughnut goblin.
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Get ready to fry up some dough and cover it in massive amounts of sugar.
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Because this is the Donuts Episode.
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Do you have strong feelings on doughnuts, Monica?
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Do you eat a lot of doughnuts?
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Do you eat 60 plus a year?
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That is a staggering statistic.
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I mean, that means people are eating over one a week.
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Yeah, people love a donut.
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I don t eat a donut for a long time, but then when I do eat them, I eat a lot at once.
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So I probably do eat about one a week on average, actually.
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No, you do?
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Well, yeah, when I eat it, I ll have 10 at a time, you know?
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If I m having a donut once every two months, I ll have like 10 or 20.
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I ll just gobble them down.
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Oh my gosh.
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I do.
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I mean, I love a donut.
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Who doesn t?
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What s not to like about it?
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It s sort of, though, I will say in some ways it is like cereal in that America has made it a breakfast item and it s a cake.
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That s all it is in the shape of a circle.
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And yet we like eat it for breakfast.
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Yeah, that s a remarkable thing.
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I didn t sort of thought about that.
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America is good at taking what should be a dessert.
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and making it a breakfast.
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They flip it.
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That s so savvy.
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It is savvy from a marketing corporate perspective, and it s so horrifying health wise.
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I mean, yeah, sugar is a great fuel to start your day with.
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A few times I have started a day with a donut.
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Generally, it s been a bad day.
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It hasn t gone well.
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You get the crash, all those carbs.
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It s a bad time.
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What is your favorite, not place, I m sure we ll get into that, but what is your favorite donut?
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What do you order if all the donuts are on the menu?
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I just like a simple, what do you call it?
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I just want like a little chocolate topping, like a chocolate glaze, really basic.
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Yeah.
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Just a chocolate glaze.
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And I m happy.
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I don t want any filling in the middle of my donut.
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That s too much.
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I just want that dough and I want a bit of chalk.
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What about you?
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My favorite of all time, I have two, is a blueberry donut or a chocolate cake donut.
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Oh, it s so good.
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Dunkin  Donuts.
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I think all time favorite is their chocolate cake donut.
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My God, that s the one.
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Look, spoiler alert, but I do talk to the boss of Dunkin  later in the documentary.
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What?
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Yeah.
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So that s coming up.
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Were you starstruck?
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I was, I liked all the people at Duncan.
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They were really fun to interact with.
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And this is actually quite annoying because spoiler alert, I m in New Zealand at the moment because I ve had to come back here to get my visa renewed.
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So I m looking at a very American topic as I m coming in from afar.
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But the problem is I was going to get donuts delivered to all of us today.
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If we re recording in the attic, Duncan was going to come to the party and just give us all this stuff.
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So I m really sorry.
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Wait, Duncan, the man was going to come?
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Not the man, the company.
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The company was going to come and deliver donuts to all of us.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I probably should have done this even though I m not there.
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It would have been a kind gesture.
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It probably shows how selfish I am.
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It would have been generous.
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Oh, but I thought we re not all together.
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So I didn t make that happen.
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And I m real.
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I ll make it up to you later in the year somehow.
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Okay.
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It does feel a little bit wrong morally that we aren t eating donuts or they re not in our presence.
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We can t smell them right now.
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I mean, I ll probably have to get one today after we record this.
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I m sure.
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I think we will probably need to get some donuts after this, to be honest.
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Wow.
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I can t believe you met Mr. Duncan himself.
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I imagine he looks like the guy from Home Alone 2.
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who works at the shop where he gives the two turtle dove ornaments to Kevin.
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Oh, that kindest looking old man of all time.
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Yeah, and actually he owns the store and he s also like a billionaire.
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You don t know it because he s just so kind.
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Oh, big Home Alone fan over here.
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I didn t pick you for a Home Alone 2 fan, actually.
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Really?
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Home Alone s my favorite Christmas movie.
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Oh, it s really good.
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I watched as a Christmas movie last year, Gremlins.
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That s a good Christmas movie.
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I forgot that a big part of that takes place at Christmas.
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And it s also incredibly depraved.
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Movies for kids used to be so scary.
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Like, there s a scene in Gremlins where the mum is just going around throwing gremlins into kitchen, um,
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What do you call them?
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We call them insincorators in New Zealand.
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We ve had this debate before.
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A garbage disposal, into a blender, into a microwave.
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There s a gremlin that flashes people?
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This is a movie for kids.
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It s kind of crazy.
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Can gremlins not die?
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I haven t seen it.
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You can kill a gremlin.
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Yeah, you kill them by putting them in a blender, typically, or a microwave or something like that.
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But you haven t seen gremlins?
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No.
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Hey, Monica, this Christmas, so many months away, but we ve got to get you to watch Gremlins.
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It s an all time classic.
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They start as these cute little tiny creatures, but then if they eat after midnight or if they get water on them, they turn into these horrible, conniving, awful creatures and they rampage around this Christmassy town.
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Can they turn back good?
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No, once they ve gone evil, they re pure evil.
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Once that s happened.
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Yeah.
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And they also, they procreate if they get wet.
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The good ones procreate.
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So you ve got like 20 cute ones, but then if those cute ones eat after midnight, they turn into the horrible ones.
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It gets out of control quickly.
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Okay.
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Before we get into donuts, we have to talk about the thing I know you don t want to talk about, but it was your birthday.
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You are 40 now.
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Happy birthday.
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How does it feel?
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Yeah.
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How old did you say I was?
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40.
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Aren t you?
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Or are you 41?
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Or are you 39?
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I turned 41.
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Oh, you were 40 last year.
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Yeah.
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So it s bad.
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It feels bad.
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Wait, why did I think this was going to be so, I feel like me and you talked and you were so upset about this birthday.
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Yeah, I was because I ve crossed over into now the stretch to 50.
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40 was fine.
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It was like, I m four zero.
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41 is nine years from 50.
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And that is a huge, huge, huge problem to me because 50 is a real problem for me personally, not insulting anyone 50 or over, but for me, I m not happy about it.
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Yeah, 41 feels infinitely worse.
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And everyone, for your 40th, everyone s sort of excited and they re on board and you can party.
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You can t party for 41.
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It s almost a bit sad, you know?
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You didn t party?
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What did you do?
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I was at my mum and dad s in Whangarei and it was very quiet.
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We just had a really mellow time.
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Mum made me a birthday cake and a Christmas cake.
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at the same time, which is nice because he s acknowledging my birthday.
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Because usually, you know, if you re a Christmas baby, it s going back a bit now, actually.
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But yeah, the memories are all flooding back.
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Yeah, usually people are ignored when their birthday is on Christmas Day.
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But my mum made a special effort to make a Christmas cake and a birthday cake.
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I m a very lucky boy.
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You re the luckiest little boy.
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But what kind of cake did you get?
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This is sort of circling back to donuts.
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What kind of cake was the birthday cake and then what kind was the Christmas?
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You would have liked the birthday cake because it was a chocolate, very simple, beautiful chocolate, foamy sort of texture, not too moist, not too dry, beautiful chocolate icing.
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And with one of those little happy birthday signs kind of like squished into the top of the cake.
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Did it say happy birthday Davey?
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No, just happy birthday.
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Few candles, not 41 candles.
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That would have been insulting.
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And then the Christmas cake was your classic fruitcake.
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You know, mum starts making it, you know, halfway through the year.
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What do you mean?
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Well, I think with fruitcake, you got to like brew it a bit, don t you?
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You ve got the fruit, you re mixing it all up.
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My mum makes it in advance.
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It s a big deal.
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she makes it in june i don t understand what you re saying is it frozen how do you how does she do this and not spoil yeah no i think actually look to be honest i m not but i think she does freeze it she makes it early and then she freezes it and then she dethors it and something
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in that process, she thinks makes it a better texture and a better cake.
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Or maybe the fruit she s using is of a certain season or something.
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I gotta be honest, I haven t thought about this a lot.
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I just know she always starts making this cake in June and it s like, by the time Christmas rolls around, it s really, really delicious.
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Okay.
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Well, in an upcoming episode, we need to get your mom on the horn and we need to learn about this Christmas cake.
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The most exciting thing about my mom s Christmas cake is that, you know, most Christmas cake, fruitcake has sort of an almondy icing on top.
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I m actually not all that familiar with fruitcake.
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I mean, I know it s, it is a thing, but I don t know much about it.
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It s not big in the Padman household.
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It s usually an almond topping.
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My mum is like, screw that.
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Almond s horrible in a topping.
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We re not doing almonds.
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And she just makes this beautiful, sweet, buttery white icing to like put on top.
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And it s the best Christmas cake you ll ever have.
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Wow.
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And I do want to try this.
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Well, bring some back, bring a frozen chunk back for you on the plane.
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Defrost it over a week.
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Do it.
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Do it.
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I just had a brand new thought.
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I ve never thought this before.
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Holy shit.
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Got a brand new thought coming in.
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It s rare as a human to have a brand new thought.
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They usually like remodeled thoughts.
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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It s cruel what we do to people with the candles on birthdays, where we put the amount of candles for your birthday, because it starts to become impossible and you already are feeling old.
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And so when you can t do it, it s just reiterating that you re old.
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You don t have the breath you used to have.
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It s awful.
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Why do we do that?
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Yeah, you re right.
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And it s either if you do use, so say 41, 41 candles, it looks ridiculous.
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There s no cake.
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You can t see the cake through the candles.
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So then it gets a bit pathetic.
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And someone was probably one candle on, or maybe like three.
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And that feels sad.
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You get the numbered candles.
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You get the number.
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Yeah.
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That feels always like a cheat.
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But I get it.
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Or you do like a four, you do four singles and then one single.
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Oh gosh.
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Have you ever like been to a kid s birthday recently and there s like a cake you actually want to eat and then the kid, the parents give it to the kid to blow out, which is awful.
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And the kid is just spitting.
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Spitting all over it.
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Just everywhere.
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They ve got no control.
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And you re like, I m not eating that cake now.
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I m out.
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Snot comes out.
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Yeah, horrific.
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It s disgusting.
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They shouldn t let kids blow out their own candles.
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They should make David do it.
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Mature adult that doesn t spit everywhere.
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I do have one important doughnut question for you guys.
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Do you prefer yeast or cake doughnuts?
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Oh, I m a yeasty boy.
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I like cake.
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I m team cake too.
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Really?
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You know, I like that yeastiness.
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That s interesting.
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But I do love Krispy Kreme.
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Ding, ding, ding, whatever episode from a long time ago where we brought up Krispy Kreme randomly and then ate some.
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Was it the Amish episode?
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I think it was.
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Yeah, it was Amish.
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Yeah, Amish and their donuts.
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Wow.
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Good memory.
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Okay.
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So listen to that too.
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Do a double header on this for donuts.
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All right.
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Let s crank into this little documentary into the world of delicious donuts.
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Yum.
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Yum, yum.
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When do you start baking?
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I start at 1 o clock in the morning until 6.30 we re done.
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What are your best ones?
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The best one is Reese s peanut butter.
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I m at a California donut store, and I ve just been told their best donut is their Reese s Pieces donut.
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Funnily enough, I d been researching Reese s Pieces for an episode about American candy, and my head was brimming with Reese s Pieces facts.
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Invented in 1978, based on the Buttercup s version from 1928, got huge because they featured an E.T.
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Anyway, here were Reese s Pieces, on a donut.
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It s called Flightless Bird, and it s just about different parts of American culture.
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How long have you worked here for?
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13 years.
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What s your favourite doughnut?
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Reese s peanut butter and snicker bar.
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Alright, I m looking forward to it.
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I d come to this store to research doughnuts.
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With me, Andrew, a friend from New Zealand.
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Andrew s a fitness freak and hates things like battered dough and sugar.
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This is his nightmare.
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I sort of need to have my eyes opened to the doughnut experience.
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Then there s Lauren, an American who grew up surrounded by doughnuts.
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I love the donut.
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It s very classic.
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We used to get them as a family on weekend mornings, which was quite nice.
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These are the yeasted donuts, which are the big puffy ones.
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And I like a denser cake donut.
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I thought they were all yeasted.
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I think they all technically have yeast, but like...
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I like a cruller or a buttermilk bar.
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Andrew, my New Zealand cohort, how are you feeling about the situation?
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I m approaching this with some trepidation, having a low tolerance of sugar, but I have the Snickers donut.
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I ve taken my first bite and I can see this sort of melted kind of Snickers
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like an entire Snickers bar inserted into the middle.
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The three of us had agreed to drive around all morning and eat different doughnuts at different stores, but I could already see a flaw in our plan.
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Doughnuts are filling.
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I had a feeling this might be our last stop, especially because we d started with the most sugary nightmares available.
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That does make me think, too.
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L.A.
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is so notoriously a svelte culture, a wellness place.
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We are gluten-free and vegan and so obsessed with our bodies and our figures, and yet the donut is very central to L.A.
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culinary history.
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and to US culinary history.
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While different cultures have been frying dough for hundreds of years, it s thought the actual doughnut can be traced back to the Dutch who came to New York in the 1600s and started frying smaller bits of dough.
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But it wouldn t be until 1850 that an American sailor would stab a doughnut onto one of the spokes of his steering wheel, accidentally inventing the doughnut hole.
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This revelation meant that donuts could be made bigger, because with a hole in the middle they cook all the way through and wouldn t have a disgusting undercooked center.
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They became big with American soldiers during World War I in the trenches.
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Easy to make, delicious to consume.
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National Donut Day came about because of World War I. It was created by the Salvation Army in 1938 to honor members who d served donuts to soldiers during the war.
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Now National Donut Day is celebrated on the first Friday of June every year.
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And Lauren tells me the whole thing about cops loving donuts isn t just in the movies.
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To Americans listening, you probably know this already, but to this New Zealander, I d figured it was just a joke.
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But as I ve discovered making this show, things I grew up thinking were a joke about America are just real things.
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Like cops eating donuts.
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That s a real thing, because they re 24 hours.
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So when you re on your shift and you re just cruising around town and you need a little pick-me-up, you get your little caffeine to keep you going.
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You walk in.
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Often they have the air of authority.
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The donuts are cheap anyway.
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I think often they re kind of gifted to the cops that come in.
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And if you need a place to kind of hang out, one or two booths on a main drag with a big window, you can just kind of sit, have a nice little break, but still be on the clock.
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We d eaten a few doughnuts each at the California doughnut store, and Andrew had given up.
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This is about the time that I make a kale salad at home, you know.
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And here I am with you two, eating another chocolate doughnut.
1
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I thanked Cindy for the doughnuts.
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She s behind the counter today, especially the Reese s Pieces one.
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SPEAKER_05
This was an amazing doughnut, so thank you so much.
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You re welcome.
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SPEAKER_01
I hope to see you again, okay?
1
SPEAKER_05
I abandoned my friends and go and meet up with Emily Tang.
1
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She s originally from the Bay Area and grew up working in her parents  donut shop.
1
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I wanted to meet Emily to better understand the donut situation in America, which for her started when her parents Ying and Sang moved to the US.
1
SPEAKER_00
My mom came in her late 20s.
1
SPEAKER_00
Her and my father met in China, and then she immigrated here, and first day in the U.S.
1
SPEAKER_00
was at the donut shop, essentially.
1
SPEAKER_00
And then my father, he s ethnically Chinese and Cambodian, born in Cambodia, immigrated to the U.S.
1
SPEAKER_00
as a refugee due to the Khmer Rouge and the Cambodian genocide in the late 1970s.
1
SPEAKER_00
So a very common business that a lot of Cambodian Americans got into because it was sort of a community-built
1
SPEAKER_00
internship where a lot of folks, mainly guys, would start waking up, go learn how to make donuts, collect money, kind of save up, lease a donut shop, rent a donut shop, buy a donut shop from another relative, and start building their own small business.
1
SPEAKER_00
Everyone in the family is involved.
1
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The kids are folding the pink boxes.
1
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The dad and the mom are behind the counter.
1
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So that s kind of how my parents got into it.
1
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Her parent s store, Best Donuts, is in Santa Clara, so today in Los Angeles we ve met up at another mom and pop store called Tasty Donuts and Cafe.
1
SPEAKER_05
Emily knows a lot about donuts because she grew up with them, but also she now runs an Instagram account called Pink Box Stories, bringing attention to Cambodian Americans who we have to thank for the iconic pink donut box.
2
SPEAKER_01
The story goes that in the 80s, a Cambodian refugee was expanding his doughnut chain and was looking for cheaper boxes than the typical white ones.
2
SPEAKER_01
The supplier offered him one very cheap colour.
2
SPEAKER_03
And at the time it was only pink because someone wanted red and they already made all these red boxes for a different business and such and the pinks were scraps running through to get the remaining colour out before they changed the colour.
2
SPEAKER_03
So they re like, we ll go with this pink one.
2
SPEAKER_01
Pink took off, and now it s the norm.
2
SPEAKER_01
Emily also tells me there s a kind of coastal divide of donut shops, where the East Coast has more franchises like Krispy Kreme and Dunkin , where the West Coast tends to have more mom and pop stores, many owned and operated by Cambodian Americans.
2
SPEAKER_01
How many donuts would you have consumed in your life, do you think?
2
SPEAKER_03
Maybe 100 or so.
2
SPEAKER_03
I m not a huge sweet tooth.
2
SPEAKER_03
My dad will actually have a donut a day, mainly to taste how his recipe is.
2
SPEAKER_03
But they re also both sweet tooths, so they will eat it almost all the time.
2
SPEAKER_03
I ll just eat it to, like, provide a review, or if it s super fresh.
2
SPEAKER_03
I ve had, like, peak donuts where they re straight out of the fryer.
2
SPEAKER_03
The main category is the raised donut, which is a fluffier dough.
2
SPEAKER_03
It has yeast.
2
SPEAKER_03
And then off of that are all the denser donuts.
2
SPEAKER_03
So the old fashions, the cake donuts, a buttermilk bar.
2
SPEAKER_03
And then some really old-school shops will have the French cruller, which is a very soft donut.
2
SPEAKER_03
It s more sponge-like, very egg-heavy.
2
SPEAKER_03
And now we see the evolution of, like, the trendier donuts.
2
SPEAKER_03
I see behind you there s a panda-looking donut.
2
SPEAKER_03
The cronut is also a new one.
2
SPEAKER_03
I think the most extreme donut I ve ever seen.
2
SPEAKER_03
This was somewhere in New York.
2
SPEAKER_03
It was a maple bacon donut, and stuck to its side was a syringe of whiskey.
2
SPEAKER_01
We ve been eating donuts this whole time, by the way.
2
SPEAKER_01
They re really good.
2
SPEAKER_01
Johnny, who runs this place, comes over to check in.
2
SPEAKER_00
We ve been here since 2014, but we were across the street since 91.
2
SPEAKER_01
We end up talking to Johnny for a while, who insists on giving us more free donuts, while telling us that maybe things are changing a little in these smaller family-run stores.
2
SPEAKER_01
The next generation of donut makers have other things on their mind.
2
SPEAKER_00
They don t want to keep it.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s too much work.
2
SPEAKER_00
Too much work.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you have no baker, you have to bake yourself.
2
SPEAKER_00
Times are changing.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s just that the new immigrants that s coming in, it s a different lifestyle.
2
SPEAKER_00
A lot of them, they re switching to a lot of Uber drivers now.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, because of all the internet and the next phase, everything is switching.
2
SPEAKER_00
The jobs, the careers, everything is all evolving.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he says that while a box is the perfect device for holding doughnuts, in a way, the doughnut store itself ends up feeling like a box for those making them.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think a lot of people just want more freedom to roam around rather than be stuck in a box.
2
SPEAKER_01
If anything, this just makes me want to support smaller stores even more.
2
SPEAKER_01
Places like this one, Tasty Donuts, which I can assure you lives up to its name.
2
SPEAKER_01
Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird.
2
SPEAKER_01
We ll be right back after a word from our sponsors.
2
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Support for Flightless Bird comes from AG1.
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Now, there s a few relationships that I m proud of in my life.
2
SPEAKER_01
One s with Hayden, I ve talked about him before.
2
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2
SPEAKER_01
Both of them, like, they re not simple relationships.
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2
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So yeah, I ate a lot of donuts for that section with my buddies.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, very lucky to make this show.
2
SPEAKER_01
I can sort of roll around eating and recording people while I do.
2
SPEAKER_04
I thought that was so lovely.
2
SPEAKER_04
I loved hearing those backstories.
2
SPEAKER_04
I didn t know that about the pink box.
2
SPEAKER_04
That was
2
SPEAKER_04
Very sweet.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it was just like the end of a run where the red was running out and they just had this other color that no one wanted and they rolled with that.
2
SPEAKER_01
And now everything, yeah, you just associate pink, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
I feel like you go to Universal Studios and you get that big touristy box of donuts and it comes in a big pink carton.
2
SPEAKER_04
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_04
I never really thought of it as being an establishment that a lot of immigrants sort of flock to.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Donuts especially.
2
SPEAKER_01
I can t remember what the exact stats are, but so many of those mom and pop donut stores, especially in California, are Cambodian run.
2
SPEAKER_01
There was a story, I think in the LA Times the other day about this really iconic one in Echo Park.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think the landlord sold the building and they re having to move, and the whole community grew up getting their donuts there, so they ve made this GoFundMe campaign to try and help them keep their donut store, because they make the best donuts in Echo Park.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I think that s the interesting thing about donuts, and in the next part of the doc we get into the more corporate side, but yeah, there s a big corporatized world.
2
SPEAKER_01
I guess it s like coffee, right?
2
SPEAKER_01
You ve got Starbucks with all the chain, and then you ve got these cute little stores, and both of them kind of have their own weird charms, you know?
2
SPEAKER_02
Well, there s a third bucket that s kind of trending, too, is the trendy, fancy artisanal donuts.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yes, the fancy boys.
2
SPEAKER_01
I reached out to a lot of the trendy ones for this.
2
SPEAKER_01
None of them got back to me.
2
SPEAKER_01
They re too trendy.
2
SPEAKER_01
They re too trendy for this podcast.
2
SPEAKER_01
In their minds, they re probably like, we ve got enough customers.
2
SPEAKER_01
We don t need to talk about it.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, we ve got our Instagram account.
2
SPEAKER_04
But also that s just culture right now.
2
SPEAKER_04
Everything is artisanal.
2
SPEAKER_04
There has to be a fancy version of everything.
2
SPEAKER_02
Have you had sidecar donuts?
2
SPEAKER_04
I have, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_04
They re very good.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think you took me there, Rob, and they were friggin  delicious.
2
SPEAKER_01
I just remembered a bad thing I did where...
2
SPEAKER_01
This was years ago.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was staying at someone else s house before I d found a place to live in LA.
2
SPEAKER_01
And a giant box of voodoo doughnuts arrived at my door.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s that store that they re like crazy sweet additions.
2
SPEAKER_01
And a big box of them arrived and I just assumed they were for me.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I ate them.
2
SPEAKER_01
Just sat there and ate them all.
2
SPEAKER_01
Sort of forgetting that I was living with someone else.
2
SPEAKER_01
And they came home and they were like, where are those doughnuts that were delivered?
2
SPEAKER_01
They were for my friend s birthday that we re going to later on.
2
SPEAKER_01
We re going to take the doughnuts there.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I felt really bad about that.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so when it came around to that person s birthday again, again, did you not go that day?
2
SPEAKER_01
No.
2
SPEAKER_01
So we sorted something out for that day.
2
SPEAKER_01
But then when that person had like another event on, I felt, of course, everyone at the party was like, David ate your doughnuts.
2
SPEAKER_01
David ate your doughnuts.
2
SPEAKER_01
Everyone teased me.
2
SPEAKER_01
I felt sick.
2
SPEAKER_01
You ate like a dozen of them?
2
SPEAKER_01
No, not all of them.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ate maybe six and a half or seven.
2
SPEAKER_01
I felt bad.
2
SPEAKER_01
At one time?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I m very hungry.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m growing.
2
SPEAKER_01
So the next time that person had an event, they knew that I d eaten their donuts last time.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I went and got some new donuts from Voodoo Donuts to take to that person s house.
2
SPEAKER_01
But then I was sitting there on the bench and I was like, oh my God, I just want a donut.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I ate them too.
2
SPEAKER_04
You re kidding.
2
SPEAKER_04
David, how old were you?
2
SPEAKER_01
Back then, I d say 38.
3
SPEAKER_02
39.
3
SPEAKER_02
This is unacceptable behavior.
3
SPEAKER_02
No.
3
SPEAKER_05
No, there s a complete lack of self-control.
3
SPEAKER_05
It s childlike.
3
SPEAKER_05
It s awful.
3
SPEAKER_05
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_05
And so I ve never gotten this person their donuts.
3
SPEAKER_05
Cause whenever I try and get them, I just eat them.
3
SPEAKER_02
This is like another egg to the head.
3
SPEAKER_02
It s insanity.
3
SPEAKER_01
Do you know the story of Voodoo Donuts?
3
SPEAKER_01
No.
3
SPEAKER_01
That was the original trendy donut shop in Portland from 20 years ago.
3
SPEAKER_05
Really?
3
SPEAKER_05
So it was like a little trendy one and it just got big?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it was like 20 years ago when they got opened.
3
SPEAKER_01
And whenever you go to Portland, you had to go there and it was always lines around the block for their donuts.
3
SPEAKER_01
And they did the cock and balls donut and
3
SPEAKER_01
cereal on top of it and... Right, they re like a naughty doughnut place.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think they ve opened some since in LA.
3
SPEAKER_05
There s apparently, there s an amazing documentary on Netflix that I embarrassingly haven t seen called The Doughnut King, which is a lot about these Cambodian refugees who have made doughnuts such a big thing.
3
SPEAKER_05
Apparently it s a really beautiful doc, but if you like this episode, that s probably a good thing to watch.
3
SPEAKER_05
Okay, should we get into the other side of donuts?
3
SPEAKER_05
The big giant, you re driving along the freeway and you get off and there s the don t, you know, reliable donut store.
3
SPEAKER_05
It s always there.
3
SPEAKER_05
The chain.
3
SPEAKER_02
The sign is on.
3
SPEAKER_05
Beckoning you.
3
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, I ll take that exit.
3
SPEAKER_05
Yeah, let s get into this.
3
SPEAKER_05
Let s get into it.
3
SPEAKER_03
Ben Affleck, the star s legendary love of Dunkin  Donuts, just hit a whole new level.
3
SPEAKER_03
He s always photographed with a little Dunkin  coffee.
3
SPEAKER_03
Tuesday, Ben was spotted serving cups of the New England brew at Medford, Massachusetts drive-thru.
3
SPEAKER_05
I d be cursed for all eternity and banished to the lower depths of hell by Monica if I didn t turn my sights towards Dunkin , the chain loved by actor Ben Affleck.
3
SPEAKER_05
Emily from earlier on had mentioned to me how the East Coast was defined by bigger franchise chains.
3
SPEAKER_05
So of course it s time to turn to Duncan.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think, you can quote me, donuts are sexy again.
3
SPEAKER_05
And I m not here to fuck around, so I went straight to the top.
3
SPEAKER_00
So my name is Scott Murphy.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m the president of Dunkin .
3
SPEAKER_00
Been here about 20 years, and we are the franchisor of Dunkin .
3
SPEAKER_00
Almost 10,000 restaurants here in the United States.
3
SPEAKER_00
Another 4,000 outside the United States.
3
SPEAKER_00
But obviously a leader in drip coffee, in donuts, in bagels, in all sorts of categories across the food and beverage spectrum.
3
SPEAKER_05
What are the defining aspects that make Dunkin  Dunkin ?
3
SPEAKER_05
Because there s a lot of places in America that sell coffee, a lot of places that sell donuts.
3
SPEAKER_05
What s the whole Dunkin  thing?
3
SPEAKER_00
The whole Dunkin  thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s a great question and I think it s a really deep answer.
3
SPEAKER_00
Dunkin s been around for 70 years and it s one of these great brands that have found a way to stay relevant and to stay in the conversation with America.
3
SPEAKER_00
and to really grow with people.
3
SPEAKER_00
So if you are traveling around America and talking to people, a lot of them will reminisce about their early childhood, getting a donut with their father after a baseball game or with their mother before church or after church, that type of thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then they ll talk about in high school when they started getting a coffee coolata or something like that.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then they ll talk about in college they migrated to hot coffee for an all-nighter before an exam.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then cold brew recently and some of these products.
3
SPEAKER_00
So it s a brand that has stayed with people throughout their lives.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then the second thing I d say about this brand is we don t take ourselves too seriously.
3
SPEAKER_00
We certainly take the quality of our donuts and our coffee seriously, but it s a brand that humor is very much at the center of it, but we re sort of your reliable partner that s there with you.
3
SPEAKER_00
And we know that not every day is going to be great, but if we can give you that sort of brief moment to start your day the right way and give you the energy, then that s what we re going to do.
3
SPEAKER_05
Good lord, Americans are really good at making you feel patriotic about everything.
3
SPEAKER_05
In this case, a bit of dough with a hole in the middle.
3
SPEAKER_05
And what s the balance between the doughnut aspect and the coffee aspect?
3
SPEAKER_05
Because obviously Dunkin  Donuts, I mean even in the name, it s got doughnuts.
3
SPEAKER_05
Are you meant to be dunking them in the coffee?
3
SPEAKER_05
What s the fusion between the coffee and the doughnuts?
3
SPEAKER_05
Or is that just a good breakfast?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I mean, I think it s how it originally started and our donuts even had that little handle, that little bump out on the donut.
3
SPEAKER_00
You were meant to hold it and dunk it in your coffee.
3
SPEAKER_05
Are people still doing that or is that a practice that s generally not happening in America?
3
SPEAKER_05
I ve never seen it done now that I think about it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, we don t do too much of it now, but I will tell you, everyone remembers it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And some people still certainly dunk their donuts in their coffee.
3
SPEAKER_00
In 2018, we dropped the name Donuts from the name.
3
SPEAKER_00
So now we just go by Dunkin , and mostly because that s how America was referring to us.
3
SPEAKER_00
We re on our way to Dunkin .
3
SPEAKER_00
And it was also a nod to, while donuts are an important part of our legacy, certainly, the future is probably more around beverages and certainly ice beverages when we think about that next generation consumer.
3
SPEAKER_05
I hadn t even noticed it was no longer called Dunkin  Donuts, just Dunkin , a donut store without donut in its name.
3
SPEAKER_05
Scott tells me the first store was opened in Quincy, Massachusetts in 1950, which was actually a rebrand of another donut place called Open Kettle.
3
SPEAKER_05
The idea was to serve blue-collar workers only what they needed, two things, donuts and coffee.
3
SPEAKER_05
It was eventually franchised, and today it sits in the hands of franchisees like Sue Andrade.
3
SPEAKER_05
She s run a Dunkin  store for the last 26 years.
3
SPEAKER_05
It s in her blood.
3
SPEAKER_02
My dad s been in the business for about 52 years.
3
SPEAKER_02
And then he sold to me and my brother.
3
SPEAKER_02
So as I graduated from high school, I worked at Dunkin  behind the counter since I was 12.
3
SPEAKER_02
Back then, there weren t any labor laws against that.
3
SPEAKER_02
And it s been wonderful.
3
SPEAKER_02
So there are now four generations of this family that is in this business today.
3
SPEAKER_02
You would be amazed at the uniforms that we have collected through the years.
3
SPEAKER_02
I actually brought one into a meeting a couple of months ago and it was like the donut tree.
3
SPEAKER_02
So literally it s a little beige dress that has donut trees on them.
3
SPEAKER_02
It started with the pink striped shirts.
3
SPEAKER_02
They went to the donut trees and now we re in jeans and t-shirts.
3
SPEAKER_05
Do you think it ll go on for like another generation in your family?
3
SPEAKER_02
I think so.
3
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_02
My kids are still a little bit younger, so I don t know what they re going to be doing, but the legacy that s been created is truly amazing.
3
SPEAKER_05
I guess it s your job now to probably start slowly indoctrinating your kids, you know, giving them little bits of doughnut and little bits of coffee now and then.
3
SPEAKER_02
Oh, they love doughnuts, let me tell you, and coffee.
3
SPEAKER_05
Generations of Duncan franchisees selling doughnuts and coffee to generations of Americans.
3
SPEAKER_05
I guess that s where their slogan comes from.
3
SPEAKER_00
Probably 10 or 15 years ago, when we came up with America runs on Dunkin, the slogan, and we were contemplating going west, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
We were very much a Northeast donut company.
3
SPEAKER_00
And the question was, could we expand our footprint and go to California and other places?
3
SPEAKER_00
We looked at a lot of the demographics and the rub on Dunkin was it was very much a blue collar brand.
3
SPEAKER_00
It was for the landscapers and the teachers and those types of people.
3
SPEAKER_00
We went to go do the demographics, and then we realized it s actually not demographics that are important, but it s the psychographics.
3
SPEAKER_00
Dunkin  is a brand that s not just for a certain type of people, but it s for people that want good quality products at a decent price, served quickly, and they kind of have a lot to do in their day, and they just want to get in and get out.
3
SPEAKER_00
with low friction.
3
SPEAKER_00
And guess what?
3
SPEAKER_00
Those people certainly are janitors and landscapers, but they re also hosts of podcasts.
3
SPEAKER_00
They are presidents.
3
SPEAKER_00
They are lawyers.
3
SPEAKER_00
And that aspect exists across the entire United States.
3
SPEAKER_00
And what we realize is Duncan serves the red politics.
3
SPEAKER_00
It serves the blue politics.
3
SPEAKER_00
It serves everyone.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s very much a coffee and a product for everyone.
3
SPEAKER_05
I could tell I was being indoctrinated, indoctrinated into the world of Duncan.
3
SPEAKER_05
I mean, it happens to all of us.
3
SPEAKER_05
One day Ben Affleck is spotted struggling with handfuls of Duncan coffees, the next he s fronting their entire ad campaign.
3
SPEAKER_04
Things with Duncan are going well.
3
SPEAKER_04
Big promotion.
3
SPEAKER_04
Made me brand ambassador.
3
SPEAKER_04
We gotta come up with a drink name, but it s not easy, right?
3
SPEAKER_04
Nowadays with social media, the kids, it s gotta be authentic.
3
SPEAKER_00
I would argue Ben has been our sort of number one fan for the last 20 years.
3
SPEAKER_00
And we ve never actually had a relationship with him.
3
SPEAKER_00
He was just a fan.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, he grew up in Boston and Cambridge.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I actually think who he is, is an exact archetype of who that Duncan customer is.
3
SPEAKER_00
He s moved out West, local boy, done well.
3
SPEAKER_00
He s an Oscar winning, obviously, writer, director, actor, all those types of things.
3
SPEAKER_00
But at the heart of it, he just loves a great product.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so he loves our iced coffee.
3
SPEAKER_00
He loves our donuts.
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SPEAKER_00
And it s something that has stuck with him from his childhood.
3
SPEAKER_00
He goes to the one out in California all the time.
3
SPEAKER_00
And we talked to him about doing something together just because it seemed obvious.
3
SPEAKER_00
And that s when we ended up filming the Super Bowl commercial that had him and obviously his wife, Jennifer Lopez, in it as well.
3
SPEAKER_05
If you missed it, the ad has Ben Affleck taking orders at a Dunkin  drive-thru.
3
SPEAKER_05
Hidden camera style.
3
SPEAKER_05
And of course people are surprised when they turn the corner and see it s Ben Affleck serving them.
3
SPEAKER_05
Jennifer Lopez drives up, annoyed her husband s been gone all day.
3
SPEAKER_00
It came out incredibly well, 7 billion media impressions, rated the number one 32nd ad in the Super Bowl.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it was all his idea of how to do a behind the scenes hidden camera while he works the drive through.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I think people really related to it because they associate Ben with Duncan.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so it made sense.
4
SPEAKER_00
but Ben, just like Duncan, doesn t take himself too seriously.
4
SPEAKER_00
He s a little frazzled in the ad, but he s having fun with it, and it worked out really well.
4
SPEAKER_02
My journey into the world of donuts is coming to an end.
4
SPEAKER_02
And honestly, I ve eaten a lot of donuts along the way.
4
SPEAKER_02
I don t feel all that great, so it s probably good I wrap up.
4
SPEAKER_02
Before I leave Scott to go and do whatever it is that presidents of massive donut chains do, I let him tell me his most important Duncan fact.
4
SPEAKER_00
Given your fascination with donuts, I would let people in on a little known fact that munchkins, which are our donut holes, the spherical donuts, that it s approximately 4.3 munchkins that make up a single donut in terms of their mass.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so it s like these miniature candy bars that are out there.
4
SPEAKER_00
Everyone feels good when they just have one, but that you end up sort of having multiple.
4
SPEAKER_00
So you can have about 4.3 is your break even comparison
4
SPEAKER_00
to having a traditional donut.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I think that s a highly guarded secret in the vaults of Dunkin  headquarters here, but now you and your listeners will know the true ratio.
4
SPEAKER_02
The donuts come a long way since the sailor accidentally invented the donut hole.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I guess these days, we re back to eating the hole as well.
4
SPEAKER_02
Donuts now come in a variety of shapes and sizes, with toppings and fillings that boggle the mind.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I like that between giant chains like Dunkin , and smaller mom-and-pop stores like Best Donuts and Tasty Donuts, you re never far away from a fried ring of dough.
4
SPEAKER_02
10 billion of them guzzled down every year.
4
SPEAKER_02
10 billion, Monica.
4
SPEAKER_02
I still can t get my head around that number.
4
SPEAKER_01
What a journey.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I m so pleased.
4
SPEAKER_02
We were recording this over Zoom and I was looking at your face whenever Ben Affleck was being talked about.
4
SPEAKER_02
You kind of had this like glow and this expression on your face.
4
SPEAKER_02
It was really beautiful to see.
4
SPEAKER_02
It was like contentment.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it makes me happy.
4
SPEAKER_01
He is.
4
SPEAKER_01
He is a good old boy from Boston.
4
SPEAKER_01
He is.
4
SPEAKER_01
He just is.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, he s so good.
4
SPEAKER_01
I thought that was a genius move.
4
SPEAKER_01
Him totally embracing this Duncan connection that everyone had all these horrible memes about him and just so rude.
4
SPEAKER_01
And he s like, fuck it.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m taking it.
4
SPEAKER_02
There s certain commercials that come about in such an organic way.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I guess brands try and fake that sometimes, but you can never fake it.
4
SPEAKER_02
And nothing makes me laugh more still, in a really good hearted way.
4
SPEAKER_02
We ve all struggled with like a thing of coffees and too much in our hands.
4
SPEAKER_02
And just seeing an A-lister have that same struggle that the rest of us have, it s just eternally funny.
4
SPEAKER_02
And his facial expressions as things fall out of his hands.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s great.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s hard.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s hard to be a donut guy.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I hadn t actually watched that Super Bowl ad until recently, and when people catch Ben Affleck in the window, it s just a good moment, you know?
4
SPEAKER_01
That was what I dreamed of.
4
SPEAKER_01
Just driving up to a Dunkin Donuts and Ben is working in the... That is like probably something I actually had a fantasy about.
4
SPEAKER_02
So actually probably another topic for this podcast is the drive-thru because being back in New Zealand, I ve sort of really remembered we don t look, I mean, maybe it s popped up in some cities here.
4
SPEAKER_02
I haven t noticed it.
4
SPEAKER_02
Like you can t really do a drive-thru Starbucks.
4
SPEAKER_02
They don t have a drive-thru bank.
4
SPEAKER_02
We do drive-thru McDonald s and fast food, but it hasn t expanded to other things like doughnuts and coffee.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I love that.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
That d be a great episode.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
Why get out of the car?
4
SPEAKER_02
Stay in the car.
4
SPEAKER_02
Just stay in there all day.
4
SPEAKER_01
We are a country of convenience, if nothing else.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
And we love you for it.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
Do you miss us?
4
SPEAKER_02
I know I miss you.
4
SPEAKER_02
I do.
4
SPEAKER_02
I do miss you.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s I mean, I m in this weird sort of reverse purgatory and I ll do an episode about this where I m now waiting for my visa interview.
4
SPEAKER_02
So I ve filled in all my paperwork, paid the lawyers some money.
4
SPEAKER_02
Now I have to wait for my interview and then I ll go into the embassy here in Auckland, New Zealand.
4
SPEAKER_02
And they ll quiz me about why am I coming?
4
SPEAKER_02
I have to explain this podcast to them.
4
SPEAKER_02
I do a podcast called Flightless Bird.
4
SPEAKER_02
That can be a little ad pitch, a little sales pitch for them.
4
SPEAKER_02
We ll get one more listener from the embassy.
4
SPEAKER_02
And then they take my passport away to put the visa in it.
4
SPEAKER_02
But it s unclear when you re getting the passport back.
4
SPEAKER_02
My point is I m kind of stuck in New Zealand in a weird purgatory, which is nice because it s, you know, at the moment it s summer and it s beautiful, but I do miss America.
4
SPEAKER_02
I miss my buddies.
4
SPEAKER_02
I miss you, believe it or not.
4
SPEAKER_02
I miss you guys.
4
SPEAKER_01
Believe it.
4
SPEAKER_02
I want to be back.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_02
I want to be back in the crazy, you know, New Zealand s too beautiful here.
4
SPEAKER_02
I want to be back in the madness of the U S the muck.
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, we miss you too.
4
SPEAKER_01
And we hope your interview goes well.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
Maybe play them some clips, maybe play them this Ben Affleck clip.
4
SPEAKER_01
It makes people smile.
4
SPEAKER_02
Maybe I could take this in.
4
SPEAKER_02
That s a good idea.
4
SPEAKER_02
And I can sort of really sell it to them.
4
SPEAKER_02
And there ll be a big queue of people behind me at the embassy so they can hear them as well.
4
SPEAKER_02
That s one thing about these visa interviews.
4
SPEAKER_02
You re in this big room and you can listen to what everyone s being quizzed about.
4
SPEAKER_02
And it s some of it s really personal.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s like, why do you need to be in America?
4
SPEAKER_02
And some of them are pleading there to get over for a wedding or to see a relative.
4
SPEAKER_02
There ll be some guy who s desperately trying to explain his business venture that he s trying to get to America for fumbling with paper.
4
SPEAKER_02
is, yeah, it s like a really wild environment to be in.
4
SPEAKER_01
Are you allowed to take your mic in there?
4
SPEAKER_02
Oh no, it s like going through airport security.
4
SPEAKER_02
I wish I could record in there.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, they take your phone off you.
4
SPEAKER_02
They take any recording devices off you.
4
SPEAKER_02
It s really, really sad.
4
SPEAKER_02
I have got a ticket booked for Halberton here in New Zealand.
4
SPEAKER_02
Do you know Lord of the Rings?
4
SPEAKER_02
Have you heard of that film before?
4
SPEAKER_01
I ve heard of it.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_02
So in New Zealand, about a two hour drive from Auckland, where I am, they ve kept one of the sets of Hobbiton going and there s little hobbits in there and little hobbit houses and you can pay a ticket and go along.
4
SPEAKER_02
I m going to probably jump on the bus and take a bus ride to Hobbiton.
4
SPEAKER_02
Cause I noticed when I was flying over to New Zealand, so many people on the plane were watching Lord of the Rings.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh, they were getting in the spirit.
4
SPEAKER_02
People do that apparently when they come to New Zealand now.
4
SPEAKER_02
And so I figured I ll go to Hobbiton and have a look around and maybe record some audio there.
4
SPEAKER_01
I love it.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I can t wait.
4
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it ll be good.
4
SPEAKER_02
It ll be good.
4
SPEAKER_02
But in the meantime, let s all go and eat donuts.
4
SPEAKER_01
Donut day.
4
SPEAKER_02
Donut day.
4
SPEAKER_02
Rob, go and eat your trendy sidecar donuts.
4
SPEAKER_02
I ll go and find whatever donuts they have here in New Zealand.
4
SPEAKER_02
And Monica, we know where you re going.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know exactly.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think you are 14% more American and 14% more Cambodian.
4
SPEAKER_02
Thank you.
4
SPEAKER_02
This is nice.
4
SPEAKER_02
This is like taking the show in a different direction.
4
SPEAKER_02
We need to chase these stats actually with the ups and downs and see how American I ve become because I haven t been keeping a track of this quite chaotic system we re using.
4
SPEAKER_01
I know.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
Someone should go do that.
4
SPEAKER_01
Let us know in the comments.
4
SPEAKER_02
All right.
4
SPEAKER_02
I ll see you guys soon.
4
SPEAKER_02
See you next week.
4
SPEAKER_02
Bye.
4
Okay.