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The following is a conversation with Mark Normand, a New York comedian who has a way with words that is often both dark and hilarious.
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Let that be a warning, dear friends, to proceed with caution and to wear protection.
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You may, in fact, need it.
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He has a special on his YouTube called Out to Lunch and a new special on Netflix as part of the Stand Up Season 3 series I recommend you watch.
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And now a quick two-second mention of each sponsor.
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Check them out in the description.
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It s the best way to support this podcast.
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First is Calm, a meditation app.
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Second is Insight Tracker, a service I use to track my biological data.
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Third is Onnit, a nutrition supplement and fitness company.
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Fourth is Grammarly, a service I use to check spelling, grammar, and readability.
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And fifth is Roka, my favorite sunglasses and prescription glasses.
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So the choice is health,
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eloquence or style.
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Choose wisely my friends.
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And now onto the full ad reads.
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As always, no ads in the middle.
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I try to make these interesting, but if you skip them, please still check out the sponsors.
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I enjoy their stuff.
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Maybe you will too.
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This show is brought to you by Calm, a meditation and mental wellness app.
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Over 100 million people around the world use Calm to take care of their minds.
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You may hear in my voice a bit of a melancholy tone.
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I ve been going through some rough times.
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That s how life is.
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There s ups and downs.
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Sometimes it s just even throughout the day, hour to hour, minute to minute, and you just gotta ride it.
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Sometimes, during a bit of the low times, you have to do an ad read, like I m doing now, and it s all okay, it s all great.
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And I think guided meditation, meditation in general, is a great way to reflect on that up and down of life, to breathe, to find yourself, to find your breath, to find your mind, in the time of trouble, in the time of chaos, in the time of sadness, in the time of ecstatic bliss,
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to find a calmness.
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Anyway, if you go to calm.com slash lex, you get a limited time offer of 40% off a Calm Premium subscription, which includes hundreds of hours of programming.
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Once again, that s calm.com slash lex.
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Calm, like C-A-L-M.com slash lex.
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This show is also brought to you by Insight Tracker, a service I use to track biological data.
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SPEAKER_02
They have a bunch of plans, most of which include a blood test.
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They give you a lot of information that you can then make decisions based on.
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They have algorithms that analyze your blood data, DNA data, and fitness tracker data to provide you with a clear picture of what s going on inside you and offer you science-backed recommendations for positive diet and lifestyle changes.
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Andrew Huberman talks a lot about it.
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He uses it.
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He recommends it.
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David Sinclair as well.
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They actually had a conversation together recently on the Huberman Lab podcast that you should definitely listen to.
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Anyway, in terms of insight tracker, I love this idea.
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It feels like the future.
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Why the heck would you be making decisions for your lifestyle, for your health?
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based on kind of generic population data.
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It should be based on your unique longitudinal data measured over time.
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It s obvious, and it s sad that it s not done widespread, and it s obvious to me that it s going to be done in the future, so InsideTracker is the right tool to sort of step into the future with.
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For a limited time, you can get 25% off the entire InsideTracker store if you go to insidetracker.com slash lex.
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That s insidetracker.com slash lex.
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This episode is brought to you by Onnit, nutrition, supplement, and fitness company.
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They make AlphaBrain, which is a nootropic that helps support memory, mental speed, and focus.
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I use it as a boost when thinking through a difficult problem.
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Stepping into a deep work session, and I know it s going to be an especially, whether it s design, whether it s programming, whether it s thinking through a difficult problem, if I know it s going to be a rough one.
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And by rough, I mean there s a lot of dead ends we have to go down.
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a particular trajectory and then there s going to be a dead end and you have to backtrack, that s just such a frustrating process.
0
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So to maintain focus, to maintain clarity of thinking and a patience, it just helps me to take an alpha brain in those cases.
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I don t rely on it, I take it when I need that extra super boost.
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Clears the mind, helps maintain focus.
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Anyway, go to lexfriedman.com on it to get up to 10% off AlphaBrain.
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That s lexfriedman.com on it.
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This show is brought to you by Grammarly, a writing assistant tool that checks spelling, grammar, sentence structure, and readability.
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Grammarly Premium, the version you pay for, and the one they really hope you sign up for, offers a bunch of extra features.
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My favorite is the Clarity Check, which helps detect rambling, overcomplicated chaos that many of us can descend to.
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Whenever I mention this part, I usually love to bring up James Joyce, one of the greatest writers of the 20th century, the author of Ulysses and Finnegan s Wake, both books that I ve read and understood none of.
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In contrast, the short stories by James Joyce
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I think it s called The Dead.
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So The Dead is the final short story in the book of short stories that s called The Dead.
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Those are understandable and those are brilliant.
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One of my favorite short stories ever is The Dead.
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I should probably talk about it at some point.
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It has love, it has jealousy, it has that melancholy feeling when you ponder the passing of all the millions lives around you, plus nature.
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Something about snow and pausing to reflect on life in a melancholy way.
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Robert Frost with the stopping in the woods on a snowy evening.
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Is that the right name?
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Miles to go before I sleep.
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Miles to go before I sleep.
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I remember spending quite a long time interpreting that poem.
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It s a powerful one.
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Anyway, Grammarly is available on basically any platform in major sites and apps.
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Do more than just spell check.
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Get your point across more effectively, like Robert Frost versus James Joyce with Grammarly Premium.
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Get 20% off Grammarly Premium by signing up at grammarly.com slash lex.
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That s 20% off at grammarly.com slash lex.
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This show is also brought to you by Roka, the makers of glasses and sunglasses that I love wearing for their design, feel, and innovation on material, optics, and grips, but most importantly is that they re super sexy.
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Function is one thing, but sex appeal is another.
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Roko was started by two all-American swimmers from Stanford and was born out of an obsession with performance.
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Two words I love, obsession and performance.
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I actually met one of said swimmers, Rob.
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They have an amazing facility here in Austin.
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He s an incredible human being.
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Just, I don t know, one of those people that just brings a smile to your face.
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So much energy.
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Also is just a fun person to work out with.
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He can just really push you to your limit.
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Anyway, the sunglasses are designed to be active in.
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They re extremely lightweight.
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The grip is comfortable but strong and the style is classy.
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So it holds up in all conditions when I m wearing a suit or wearing running gear in extreme heat or in the...
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Cold, I guess you can say, but it s not really a winter compared to Boston winter, but holds up in all conditions.
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Check them out for both prescription glasses and sunglasses at Roka.com and enter code Lex to save 20% off on your first order.
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That s Roka.com and enter code Lex.
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This is the Lex Friedman podcast, and here is my conversation with Mark Normand.
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I asked him, Dylan, about Bukowski first, so let me continue on that tradition and ask you about something that Charles Bukowski said about love.
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Wait, are we rolling?
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Yes.
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Oh, geez, no hello, no nothing.
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Nope.
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I thought I was robotic.
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Bukowski said, love is a fog that burns away with the first daylight of reality.
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So, Mark Norman, let me first ask you about love.
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What are your thoughts about love?
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You talk about your relationships quite a bit.
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Do you think love can last?
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I do, but I think it s work.
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Everybody wants love to be this pre-packaged, perfect, euphoric thing, but you gotta
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It s like a good body, you know?
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We re all born with a good body, but you gotta keep it in shape, and it s the same with a loving relationship.
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Nobody wants to do the work, that s the problem.
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You talked about, I think you told a story about being unfaithful to a previous girlfriend or something like that.
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I think the story goes that,
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you were like drifting apart.
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Who were you talking to, Bert Kreischer maybe or something like that?
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Oh yeah, we were high school sweethearts, dated for like 12 years and then... So that wasn t love anymore, that was more like... It was comfort, it was routine.
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And we just slipped into that kind of married life autopilot world and...
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I tried to break up, I think, and it didn t take.
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It was one of those things.
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Our lives are just so baked in.
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And then I think I cheated and she caught me and it was ugly.
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And then we went to therapy to try to work it out, but it s much like a car that gets into a wreck.
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The door just never closed the same.
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You know what I mean?
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Yeah.
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So what are your thoughts about then commitment, like outside of love, marriage?
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I think it s an antiquated idea.
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I think it s kind of silly and unrealistic.
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And I think we re coming out of that as we get all polyamorous and non-binary and queefy and all this stuff.
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I think we re slowly moving away from that.
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But I think a lot of the ladies, more majority women like marriage, like the idea of it.
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Like I m a fiance now or whatever you call it, I m engaged.
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And I mean, she is just,
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Woo-wee, going hog wild.
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She s loving it.
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She s got the dress thing, pick a venue, flower, and she s deep in, whereas I feel guilty, because I m just like, ah, jeez.
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Is it planned already?
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When s the wedding?
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You see Squid Game?
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I m just living life.
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Yeah.
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It s planned.
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It s in New Orleans.
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I m from there.
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And it s next year.
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Are you married?
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No, single.
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Virgin?
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Of course, yeah.
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I can t imagine.
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I bet you d be great in bed.
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You re ripped.
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You have the best hairline in podcasting.
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Yeah, I don t know.
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I haven t tried yet, so we ll have to see.
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All right, well, let me know.
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Pretty big hog on you?
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Yeah, I could see you packing a crazy, crazy tool downtown.
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Does that matter for girls?
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Apparently, yeah.
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That s all I hear about.
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Okay, New Orleans.
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You grew up in New Orleans?
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Yeah, born and raised.
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Treme, outside the French Quarter.
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You ever been?
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Yeah.
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Don t remember it.
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Oh, you drink?
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Yeah, I drink.
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Of course I drink.
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I don t know.
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I can t tell if you have fun.
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No, not really.
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But Russian, I mean, Russian, of course, I drink vodka, all that kind of stuff.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Yes.
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I don t know.
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Vodka.
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Beer was just labeled an alcoholic beverage in 2011.
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Fun fact.
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What do you mean?
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In Russia.
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It was just drinks.
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It was just like apple juice before.
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It finally got declared legally as an alcoholic beverage.
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which means you can regulate it, that kind of thing.
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Ah, I guess so.
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Yeah.
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See, that s where your brain goes.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
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I just go, oh, these fucking Ruskies are- I didn t even know there was rules about drinking.
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This is good, I m learning about Russia from you.
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So what s the difficult memory experience from childhood in New Orleans that made you the man you are today?
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I don t know if it made me the man, but geez, I had a lot of,
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guffles in the neighborhood.
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I was the white kid in the neighborhood.
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So I was automatically the odd man out, the minority, the weirdo, the dork, the dweeb, the honky.
0
SPEAKER_00
So just a lot of memories of getting slapped in the face by guys and just having to take it, because there s five guys there.
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And they d be like, oh, look, you didn t even fight back.
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And you re like, well, what am I going to do, hit you and then get beat up by these guys?
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So a lot of that stuff was
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Big bummer, growing up, got robbed all the time, lost a lot of bicycles, had a bicycle taken from under me, that was pretty brutal.
0
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These kids pulled up, you know, they re like 17, and I was 13, and I had a face paint on, like I had a, not black face, but I was at a summer camp, and I had a rainbow face painted on me, we were helping kids that day, so I let them put paint on me.
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And so now I m riding home.
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What a mark.
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SPEAKER_00
What a goober I am.
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SPEAKER_00
I m riding home and these guys see me a mile away.
0
SPEAKER_00
I m a sitting duck and they go, we can take his bike.
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SPEAKER_00
He s got a fucking rainbow on his cheek.
0
SPEAKER_00
So they just go, hey, you know, like cut in front of you.
0
SPEAKER_00
They go, let me try your bike.
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I go, I m good.
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SPEAKER_00
I m good.
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SPEAKER_00
I knew what they wanted.
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And they go, let me try the bike.
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And then they just pushed me and took the bike.
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SPEAKER_00
So stuff like that was really shaping the insecurity, the self-worth.
0
SPEAKER_02
They did, because I ve been mugged when I was younger, too.
0
SPEAKER_00
Really?
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SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it changes your view of human nature a little bit.
0
SPEAKER_00
For sure.
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You go, wow, I didn t know people could be this mean, this cruel, inconsiderate.
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SPEAKER_00
I m always worried about it.
0
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Did I fart too much?
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Am I annoying?
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Am I pissing this guy off?
0
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But what a way to live.
0
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I want the bike.
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I m taking it.
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Fuck his feelings.
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For me, that quickly turned into realizing that that s just a temporary phase that those folks are in.
0
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They have a capacity to be good.
0
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For some reason, for me, that was a motivation to see, can we discover, can we incentivize them to find a better path in life?
0
SPEAKER_02
I wasn t all, I don t know, Gandhi about it.
0
SPEAKER_02
Of course, I was pissed and all those kinds of things, but I don t know, it seemed,
0
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like just the kind of thing you might do when you re younger.
0
SPEAKER_00
You hope.
0
SPEAKER_00
But this is adult crime, obviously.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I know.
0
SPEAKER_02
But yeah, exactly.
0
SPEAKER_02
And then it solidifies, and then you re beyond saving at some point.
0
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But it s like there s always an opportunity to make a better life for yourself, to become a better version of yourself.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and I remember coming home crying with no bike.
0
SPEAKER_00
And my mom, she s my parents are like liberal to a fault, you know, where they were like, oh, well, they need it.
0
SPEAKER_00
They re poor kids in the neighborhood, you know, like, all right.
0
SPEAKER_00
But I also like I have a bicycle that I ride around, you know, and I also like to live in an area that s not just, you know, riddled with theft and vandalism.
0
SPEAKER_00
But they were like, oh, they need it.
0
SPEAKER_00
And then it was it was a moot point.
0
SPEAKER_00
We just moved on.
0
SPEAKER_00
So I remember very young being like, all right, I got to figure my shit out.
0
SPEAKER_02
Okay, so you said you were beat up quite a bit, like bullying and stuff?
0
SPEAKER_00
Pushed around, I was never hospitalized or anything, but you know, you get a black guy here and there and a bloody nose, stuff like that.
0
SPEAKER_00
And it was just the outnumbered thing.
0
SPEAKER_00
The violence didn t really bother me, because you re just kids, you re boys.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
But it was the predatory, let s get him, you know, we can take him down, he s, you know, he s an easy target.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s what kills you, the mental part.
0
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, until you actually said it, I didn t realize.
0
SPEAKER_02
I ve been in, what do you call them, scuffles.
0
SPEAKER_02
And there s just one that stands out to me where, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
Let s hear it, Fatty.
0
SPEAKER_00
Bring it on.
0
SPEAKER_00
And you do jujitsu and all that stuff, right?
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s right.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I can see the guns through the suit.
0
SPEAKER_00
You re like John Wick.
0
SPEAKER_02
All right.
0
SPEAKER_00
All right.
0
SPEAKER_02
Well, I used to have now you re going to start making fun of me.
0
SPEAKER_02
I used to have long hair for for like a couple of years.
0
SPEAKER_02
I was in a band playing music and stuff like that.
0
SPEAKER_02
And there s like most of the fights I ve been in were basically one on one, maybe a little bit like a little
0
SPEAKER_02
extra stuff, but not outnumbered.
0
SPEAKER_02
And this one particular time, I ve learned a lot of lessons, but one of them was, there was a fight started between me and this other person, and then his buddies, I guess, were there.
0
SPEAKER_00
Uh-oh.
1
SPEAKER_02
as opposed to breaking it up or letting it happen, one of them grabbed my hair.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s the first time anybody grabbed, used my hair in a fight, which I ve since then realized that that s actually a really powerful grip and a powerful weapon.
1
SPEAKER_03
Oh, very vulnerable of you.
1
SPEAKER_02
And then my head got pulled back and they pulled me down to the ground.
1
SPEAKER_02
I couldn t do anything.
1
SPEAKER_02
I remember being exceptionally frustrated.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_02
That was the feeling like, I can t do anything here.
1
SPEAKER_02
I m trapped.
1
SPEAKER_02
And then they were just like kicking me and hitting me and stuff like that.
1
SPEAKER_02
And the outnumbered part of it, because I always kind of remember the trapped part because I just hated from a fighting grappling perspective, how like, the feeling was this isn t fair.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yes, that s what it is.
1
SPEAKER_03
It s a deep, deep unfairness.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_03
That you just can t, you can t win.
1
SPEAKER_03
The mob wins.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, the mob wins.
1
SPEAKER_03
Scary stuff, but it makes a man out of you in a weird way that builds character.
1
SPEAKER_03
You realize life isn t fair early and you go on from there.
1
SPEAKER_03
So there s something there.
1
SPEAKER_03
And look at you today.
1
SPEAKER_03
They re probably eating out of a dumpster at a Krispy Kreme and you re here.
1
SPEAKER_03
Got eight podcasts.
1
SPEAKER_03
You re doing great talking to giant titans of the industry.
1
SPEAKER_02
No, I do remember returning home that night.
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, you said you were crying.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s really formative.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s the point at which you get to decide, what do I make of this moment?
1
SPEAKER_02
Especially when you re younger, maybe it s not presented to you that way, but some of the greatest people in history were bullied in these kinds of ways, and they made something of themselves in this moment.
1
SPEAKER_02
Like, bullied by life in some kind of way.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s like an opportunity for growth.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s weird, but like, hardship, even in small doses, is like an opportunity for growth.
1
SPEAKER_03
Totally.
1
SPEAKER_03
I mean, look at Richard Pryor.
1
SPEAKER_03
They say he s labeled as the best comedian of all time.
1
SPEAKER_03
Grew up in a whorehouse, watched his mom get plowed by these guys in the middle of Indiana, I want to say.
1
SPEAKER_03
And just, who had a harder life?
1
SPEAKER_03
Who would suck dick for drugs?
1
SPEAKER_03
All this stuff growing up, beat up.
1
SPEAKER_03
And then the weird thing is, oops, sorry, that s my birth control alarm.
1
SPEAKER_03
And then the whole world is trying to get rid of bullying, but we still do bullying, but now it s accepted bullying.
1
SPEAKER_03
It s very strange.
1
SPEAKER_02
So you re a proponent of beating kids up, is that what you re saying?
1
SPEAKER_03
Yes, and sex with them.
1
SPEAKER_02
All right.
1
SPEAKER_03
But no.
1
SPEAKER_03
I just think it s part of life and it s horrible.
1
SPEAKER_03
It s like rain.
1
SPEAKER_03
You gotta have it.
1
SPEAKER_03
Look, a rainy day is a bummer, you know, but you need it.
1
SPEAKER_03
And I think it s similar to that.
1
SPEAKER_02
What was your relationship like with your mom and your dad?
1
SPEAKER_02
What are some memorable moments with them?
1
SPEAKER_02
What did you learn from them?
1
SPEAKER_03
Good parents.
1
SPEAKER_03
They re giving, thoughtful.
1
SPEAKER_03
A little out to lunch.
1
SPEAKER_03
You know, they were workaholics, so it was hard to get a lot out of them.
1
SPEAKER_03
And my dad was kind of an angry dad.
1
SPEAKER_03
I think he just had like a weird childhood and he s just trying to make it and he s trying to provide, but it s hard.
1
SPEAKER_03
And we live in this horrible neighborhood and we re getting robbed all the time.
1
SPEAKER_03
So life was kind of coming down on him all the time.
1
SPEAKER_03
So then he ll take it out on you or whoever, he would snap.
1
SPEAKER_03
But great parents, they cared, they put us first, but there wasn t a lot of,
1
SPEAKER_03
I don t know, you ever go to a friend s house as a kid and there s like a picture of a ski trip, and you re like, ski trip?
1
SPEAKER_03
What the hell is that about?
1
SPEAKER_03
I wasn t on to that.
1
SPEAKER_03
And smart, very smart people, but I don t know how well they were at socializing.
1
SPEAKER_02
So you never like bonded with them like on a deep human level?
1
SPEAKER_03
There was some bonding, but rarely deep.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it was just almost coworker.
1
SPEAKER_03
Hey, cold out, huh?
1
SPEAKER_02
What?
1
SPEAKER_03
It s cold out, huh?
1
SPEAKER_02
Oh yeah, like that kind of stuff.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah, gotcha.
1
SPEAKER_03
It would get there a little bit, but it would, my parents would, and I hope they never saw this, but they would do a thing where, my dad especially would do a thing where he would, he knew how to cut you down right to the bone.
1
SPEAKER_03
And so after a while you re like, I m not even gonna interact with this guy because he can get you so well.
1
SPEAKER_03
One time we were at a Thanksgiving, some kind of family event, and all the cousins are there, and I remember I was holding court.
1
SPEAKER_03
I was a young boy finding my comedic legs in this weird, tumultuous sea we call a family, and I was killing.
1
SPEAKER_03
And my dad comes out and he goes, what are you, holding court?
1
SPEAKER_03
And I was like, ah, and I felt like I was this big.
1
SPEAKER_03
I just shrunk down.
1
SPEAKER_03
He just nailed it.
1
SPEAKER_03
Cause in my head, I m like, I m holding court.
1
SPEAKER_03
Look at me.
1
SPEAKER_03
I got the whole room.
1
SPEAKER_03
And he goes, what are you, what are you holding court here?
1
SPEAKER_03
Like who the hell do you think you are?
1
SPEAKER_03
And I was like, he s right.
1
SPEAKER_03
I shouldn t be holding court.
1
SPEAKER_03
Who the fuck am I?
1
SPEAKER_03
I m nobody.
1
SPEAKER_03
So stuff like that.
1
SPEAKER_02
Was he aware of that you think?
1
SPEAKER_03
He wasn t, he wasn t.
1
SPEAKER_03
I don t think he was, but.
1
SPEAKER_02
Do you give parents a pass when they re unaware of the destructive?
1
SPEAKER_02
Like, is it better when they re unaware?
1
SPEAKER_02
Because it seems like that s the way.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s true.
1
SPEAKER_02
That s the way parents often fail, is they re not intentionally malevolent.
1
SPEAKER_02
They re just like clueless.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, it s a bittersweet thing, because you re like, well, okay, he s not malicious, he s not trying to hurt me, but also,
1
SPEAKER_03
He doesn t know he hurt me.
1
SPEAKER_03
I don t know, it s tough, because if he was trying to hurt you, I guess that would be worse.
1
SPEAKER_02
So you re the fully baked Mark Norman cake at this point.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it s a shitty cake.
1
SPEAKER_03
Fruit salad.
1
SPEAKER_02
You know, the sense of self-worth you mentioned.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think in your comedy, there s a sense like you hate yourself.
1
SPEAKER_02
You think?
1
SPEAKER_03
I didn t know if that came through.
1
SPEAKER_03
Shit, I was trying to hide that part.
1
SPEAKER_03
God damn it.
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, when you like, in the privacy of your mind, are you able to love yourself or is it mostly self-hate?
1
SPEAKER_03
Jeez, what happened to this podcast?
1
SPEAKER_03
I didn t know it was on Dr. Phil.
1
SPEAKER_02
Dr. Phil.
1
SPEAKER_03
I thought we were gonna talk about engineering and climate change and rockets.
1
SPEAKER_02
We ll get there.
1
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_02
Starts with love, goes to rockets.
1
SPEAKER_03
All right, I like that.
1
SPEAKER_03
I like that s a T-shirt.
1
SPEAKER_03
What s the question?
1
SPEAKER_03
Sorry.
1
SPEAKER_03
Do I feel love?
1
SPEAKER_02
No, no.
1
SPEAKER_03
Do I love myself?
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
Like this engine of being self-critical, of just being constantly anxious about how the world perceives you, these kinds of things, is this something that you just go to for comedy, or is this who you are as a human being?
1
SPEAKER_03
I think I don t want to explore it.
1
SPEAKER_03
I think I get around it.
1
SPEAKER_03
You know, I tap dance around it, but I get it out a little with my act, maybe, because I can t do it.
1
SPEAKER_03
I m not doing it in real life, so I ll get out this no love
1
SPEAKER_03
Not loving myself, I don t know, who wants to love themself?
1
SPEAKER_03
Everybody s always like, you gotta love yourself, and then when you meet somebody who does love yourself, you re like, I fucking hate this guy.
1
SPEAKER_03
Don t you hate the guy who s upset?
1
SPEAKER_03
I m great, I m awesome, life is good.
1
SPEAKER_03
You re like, ah, this guy sucks.
1
SPEAKER_03
I d rather an insecure guy.
1
SPEAKER_03
So maybe I wanna stay insecure.
1
SPEAKER_03
Maybe I don t wanna find this love for myself.
1
SPEAKER_02
Well, okay, so self-love, like just appreciating who you are or like appreciating the moment or being grateful doesn t have to express itself by the guy saying, I m awesome.
1
SPEAKER_00
True.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s more just like humility.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s just like walking calmly through the world and just being grateful to be alive, that kind of thing.
1
SPEAKER_02
And like, oh, being appreciative of all the accomplishments that you made so far.
1
SPEAKER_02
I say all this because mostly I m extremely self-critical in everything I do.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
And so.
1
SPEAKER_02
And I kind of enjoy it.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think it s a nice little engine that it makes it fun.
1
SPEAKER_02
It makes life fun.
1
SPEAKER_02
Because it s like, if you hate everything you do, like you ve done in the past, that gives you like, all right, we can do better.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_03
But that s the key is making itself critical.
1
SPEAKER_03
Always trying to get better.
1
SPEAKER_03
I could change this.
1
SPEAKER_03
I could tweak this.
1
SPEAKER_03
I can improve this.
1
SPEAKER_03
When you just go, I hate that I do this.
1
SPEAKER_03
I suck.
1
SPEAKER_03
You just shut down.
1
SPEAKER_03
So that s the key is always being productive with the criticism.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, and the basics of life, I m just grateful for it, to be alive.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s nice to couple that with some criticism.
1
SPEAKER_03
Two legs, again, the hairline, the hog, the muscles, the world.
1
SPEAKER_03
You got a good brain on you.
1
SPEAKER_03
I mean, you re lucky.
1
SPEAKER_03
You re in the top, you know, most people are fat as shit at Burger King right now hitting their kids.
1
SPEAKER_03
You re in a Ramada hotel sitting with a low-level comedian.
1
SPEAKER_02
For the record, I ate McDonald s last night.
1
SPEAKER_03
Oh, all right, well, you re human.
1
SPEAKER_02
Well, just so you know, this is not me defending, I m not sponsored by McDonald s, but I mostly eat meat, and there s nothing wrong with the beef they have.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s actually one of the easiest ways late at night.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think it s horse, I don t know if it s actually cow.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s actually rats, yeah, you re right.
1
SPEAKER_03
But hey, it s just meat, I m a meat guy myself.
1
SPEAKER_03
They say in 20 years, we re gonna look back and go, can you believe people ate meat?
1
SPEAKER_03
It s gonna be like slavery.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, there s some ethical difficult things with factory farming.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, so let s ride it out now while we still got it.
1
SPEAKER_02
And now it s on record.
1
SPEAKER_02
Tom Waits says something about New York.
1
SPEAKER_02
You like Tom Waits?
1
SPEAKER_03
I think he s underrated.
1
SPEAKER_03
I think he s got great.
1
SPEAKER_03
He s got a great.
1
SPEAKER_03
He s great at quips and quotes.
1
SPEAKER_03
Check him out on YouTube.
1
SPEAKER_03
He s got some montages and super cuts of him being hilarious.
1
SPEAKER_02
What does he say about.
1
SPEAKER_02
I d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
1
SPEAKER_03
That was the one.
1
SPEAKER_03
That was the one that sold me.
1
SPEAKER_03
I was like, this guy s awesome.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, but his music is, he s just a genius musician.
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
Anyway, he was talking about New York.
1
SPEAKER_02
I was walking around these, I m in New York right now.
1
SPEAKER_02
We re in New York right now.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s still a magical city to me.
1
SPEAKER_02
A lot of people are quite cynical about it, about the state of things, but.
1
SPEAKER_02
Rogan.
1
SPEAKER_02
Not like Michael Malice, like a lot of friends of mine.
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, San Francisco, New York, there s something about the pandemic where people have become quite cynical about the place they are and they try to escape.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s interesting.
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, they re asking some difficult questions about what they are in life.
1
SPEAKER_02
They re having like a self-imposed midlife crisis.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s good, I think, for everybody to go through this process, but I think, I hope New York reemerges.
1
SPEAKER_02
It will.
1
SPEAKER_02
As the flourishing place for the weirdos.
1
SPEAKER_02
Anyway, Tom Waits said, New York, of course,
1
SPEAKER_02
is to be in endless surreal situations where a $50,000 gunmetal Mercedes pulls up in a puddle of blood and outsteps a 25-carat blonde with a $2 wristwatch.
1
SPEAKER_02
And he goes, he keeps going on.
1
SPEAKER_02
So like it s like a...
1
SPEAKER_03
That s like bars, he s like a rapper.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, he s good.
1
SPEAKER_02
But basically just the absurdity of it all.
1
SPEAKER_02
Lots of money, lots of weirdos, degenerates and dreamers and the whole mix of it.
1
SPEAKER_02
Do you think that s an accurate description of what New York is today?
1
SPEAKER_02
Is there still place for the weirdos and just the interesting artists, the edgy, the comedians, the creators, the entrepreneurs, as opposed to Wall Street, as opposed to rich folk and then hopeless folk?
1
SPEAKER_03
Yeah, I think it s definitely changed a lot.
1
SPEAKER_03
There s a tiny corner for us weirdo artists.
1
SPEAKER_03
New York used to be where you went to make it as a painter or whatever, a comedian or a singer, and there were all these dives and shitboxes and all these places you could go, and now it s more Pink Berries and Subway sandwiches and Chase Banks.
1
SPEAKER_03
So it s definitely lost a lot of its creative edge.
1
SPEAKER_03
It s just money, money keeps coming in, and now you see all these comedians move to Nashville, Austin, Denver, whatever.
1
SPEAKER_03
It doesn t have the power it used to have of like, you gotta be here if you wanna make it.
1
SPEAKER_03
That s definitely gone.
1
SPEAKER_03
So that hurt the city a lot.
1
SPEAKER_03
The city is way more soulless.
1
SPEAKER_03
When I moved here in 07, I mean, not only did I get mugged three times in the first year, but it was a hub of like, it felt like things were happening here, you know?
1
SPEAKER_03
It was an energy, it was electricity.
1
SPEAKER_03
And we still have the electricity, but it s also maybe just because it s Times Square, there s Soho, there s Wall Street.
1
SPEAKER_03
So we got the staples, but there is a little bit of that, it s almost like a marriage.
1
SPEAKER_03
Like, yeah, we re in love, but it s not as passionate as it once was.
1
SPEAKER_03
That s how I would equate New York.
1
SPEAKER_02
What gives you hope?
1
SPEAKER_02
You re pretty hopeful about it though.
1
SPEAKER_03
I m hopeful just because I know it s magical and I think it has to be.
1
SPEAKER_03
I mean, it s the epicenter of America.
1
SPEAKER_03
This is where the immigrants came and this is where the stock market is and the entertainment industry, a lot of it is here.
1
SPEAKER_03
I think it s gonna happen, but something like the bottom has to fall out, and then people have to move back here and all that.
1
SPEAKER_03
So the corporations are kind of fucking us.
1
SPEAKER_03
They re just buying everything.
1
SPEAKER_02
Well, that s true for everything.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s true for Austin probably as well.
1
SPEAKER_02
People are just buying out land and all that kind of stuff.
1
SPEAKER_03
You always hear of Hemingway and Dali, and all these guys went to Paris.
1
SPEAKER_03
in the 20s or whatever that was, I get it now.
1
SPEAKER_03
I used to be like, why do these guys go to Paris?
1
SPEAKER_03
Why do these artists?
1
SPEAKER_03
And now I get it, because it s freer there.
1
SPEAKER_03
That s why Austin became like that Paris, where everybody s like, I got to get out of LA.
1
SPEAKER_03
I m going there.
1
SPEAKER_03
But we came back from that.
1
SPEAKER_03
The 70s were wild, and 90s were cool.
1
SPEAKER_03
So maybe it ll come back.
1
SPEAKER_03
Might just take a decade.
1
SPEAKER_02
Well, that s how stories are told.
1
SPEAKER_02
There s always pockets of Paris within New York.
1
SPEAKER_02
True, true.
1
SPEAKER_02
There s just an opportunity to let your weird flourish is there in New York, I m sure.
1
SPEAKER_03
It s there, you gotta find it.
1
SPEAKER_03
Before it was front and center.
1
SPEAKER_02
What s your favorite thing about New York?
1
SPEAKER_02
Things just like... I mean, how long is this pod?
1
SPEAKER_03
I could go on.
1
SPEAKER_03
It s too much to put into one hour.
1
SPEAKER_03
We ve got other questions, but I love that one neighborhood is wildly different than the next.
1
SPEAKER_03
I m in Little Italy, and then you take four steps, now I m in Chinatown.
1
SPEAKER_03
I mean, and then the history there, and then the stories, and the food, and the culture, and all that.
1
SPEAKER_03
And then you go 10 feet over here, now you re in Brooklyn, and this is insane, it s a whole other world.
1
SPEAKER_03
And it s almost like a little America in one,
1
SPEAKER_03
you know a city and it s great and just the fact that they pulled it off like 5th Avenue goes way up and you re like there s a billionaire s house next to a hobo and this is a black guy who s fighting with a Cuban guy and an Asian guy is trying to get in the middle of them and the cabbies from the Middle East and
1
SPEAKER_03
There s so many beautiful women here, and there s so many brilliant minds here, and the pace is great, it keeps people moving.
1
SPEAKER_03
I mean, it just, you can t beat it.
1
SPEAKER_03
And the city will fuck you in the ass too, don t get me wrong.
1
SPEAKER_03
You land at JFK and you re like, oh god, I got mugged.
1
SPEAKER_03
My Uber driver called me a homo.
1
SPEAKER_03
I stepped in human shit.
1
SPEAKER_03
Where the fuck am I?
1
SPEAKER_03
So yeah, it s bad news, but that bad news, it s almost like the bullying.
1
SPEAKER_03
It kills you in a weird way, but it makes you stronger and you build more layers and layers and layers.
1
SPEAKER_03
That s why some new guy, some hayseed from Milwaukee shows up.
1
SPEAKER_03
You ve been here 10 years and you go, let me help you out, because you got addressed.
1
SPEAKER_03
You re gonna get your ass kicked for like six months.
1
SPEAKER_03
but I know the rope s a little, and I think you need a little of that.
1
SPEAKER_03
If the treadmill s not on, you re not gonna run.
1
SPEAKER_03
New York, the treadmill s on, so it just makes you run, and it makes you better, and look, it wears on you.
1
SPEAKER_03
You probably lose 10 years of your life living in New York versus Indianapolis, but it s a better life.
1
SPEAKER_02
Have you seen 25th Hour?
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it s been a while.
1
SPEAKER_02
Spike Lee joint?
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, Spike Lee joint.
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, Ed Norton.
1
SPEAKER_02
There s a whole monologue there about New York.
1
SPEAKER_02
but they re talking about just, he has like a mix.
1
SPEAKER_02
There s like melancholy music, I think, or just a melancholy feel to the whole thing, but there s an anger and a disgust with the city.
1
SPEAKER_02
But through the anger and the disgust comes out like a love for the city.
1
SPEAKER_02
Same with, was Taxi Driver in New York?
1
SPEAKER_03
Oh yeah, it s crazy.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, so like that, there s something about, what is that?
1
SPEAKER_01
What is that grit of the city that pushes you down?
1
SPEAKER_03
Well, that s the beauty of the city is it s this tribal human nature, like the sex shops and fistfights and racism and all this tension, but yet it s the epicenter of technology and finance and sophistication on Fifth Avenue, so you get that,
1
SPEAKER_03
Juxtaposish it s kind of like in Boston.
1
SPEAKER_03
You go to Boston.
1
SPEAKER_03
They got MIT.
1
SPEAKER_03
They got Hobbit They got all this shit and then they got the fishermen the blue-collar douchebags the Irish guys the immigrants, you know and you get that mix of like Insanely smart with wicked piss and these these two worlds and that s what that s a good thing It s like what a black guy fucks an Asian lady.
1
SPEAKER_03
That s a good-looking kid
2
SPEAKER_01
You get a mix, you know, we re mixing two totally different things, they re coming together and it makes it, it s like peanut butter and chocolate.
2
SPEAKER_00
Peanut butter and chocolate, I ve never tried that.
2
SPEAKER_00
What?
2
SPEAKER_00
Peanut butter, maybe I have.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m talking about Reese s, man.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like Reese s, yeah, yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, it s the best candy.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Without the fakeness of LA, without the kind of, with the facade.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, LA s tough.
2
SPEAKER_00
What s the difference between LA comedy and New York comedy to you?
2
SPEAKER_01
I think one place you kind of go to make it and be discovered and be loved, and one place you go, you can get all that in New York too, but I think in New York, it s more of a school, a bootcamp of comedy.
2
SPEAKER_01
Let s make great comedy.
2
SPEAKER_01
Let s make original comedy.
2
SPEAKER_01
Let s watch the other guys and gals who are at the show at the clubs and learn from them and try to hang out with them and absorb some of them.
2
SPEAKER_01
And in LA, it s like.
2
SPEAKER_01
When am I on, I m next, get out of my way.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m the star here.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m a bigger star than you.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, this guy s actually a big star.
2
SPEAKER_01
I gotta outwork, you know, it s just a lot of that instead of like, damn, that was funny, I gotta be that funny.
2
SPEAKER_01
Damn, I wish I had a joke.
2
SPEAKER_01
And look, I don t wanna speak for L.A.
2
SPEAKER_01
Comics, because there s, you know, Bill Burr, Anthony Jeselnik, these brilliant L.A.
2
SPEAKER_01
comics, but they all cut their teeth in New York, just saying.
2
SPEAKER_01
Then they moved to L.A.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s a good point.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know, Ali Wong, all these people, killer comics, but New York started New York, moved to New York.
2
SPEAKER_00
There is something about comics that stay in New York for a long time, though, like Dave Vitello.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, you know about Dave?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, he wants to do this podcast.
2
SPEAKER_00
He does?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I m a huge fan of Dave Vitello.
2
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_00
But it s like, he almost like he doesn t
2
SPEAKER_00
want to make it.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, you probably know him, but like, it feels like you just, maybe it s romanticizing it, but you re like, you almost just love the art of comedy of like becoming funnier, crafting the jokes, becoming funnier than the other comics, like competing with each other kind of thing, not over like money or fame or any of that, just purely the comedy of it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Totally that s Dave.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s him in a nut.
2
SPEAKER_01
He s like that guy in the movies in the 80s action movies where they re like they go up to a Creek in Montana and some guys living in a cabin and he s sharpening a stick and they go The Russians are coming.
2
SPEAKER_01
They re invading.
2
SPEAKER_01
We need you.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re the best commando and he s like I gave that up, man I m done with that lifestyle.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re the best we need you and he has to suit up eventually, you know He looks at a picture of his dead wife and he goes fuck it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m going
2
SPEAKER_01
And then they, you know, fight the Rooskies.
2
SPEAKER_01
But he s that guy.
2
SPEAKER_01
He just is gifted.
2
SPEAKER_01
He s like got a gift from Allah and he s the best.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, a lot of comics give him props.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s always surprising to me.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s surprising to me because he hasn t really made it big.
2
SPEAKER_00
He did.
2
SPEAKER_01
In the 90s, he was huge.
2
SPEAKER_01
He had his own TV show.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that show was awesome.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I mean, as big as I think he deserves to be.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, that s art.
2
SPEAKER_01
The mainstream shit is always the worst.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s like McDonald s versus some hole in the wall.
2
SPEAKER_01
I know I m shitting on McDonald s again.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s good, and you know, certain comics we could name are good, but the delicacy is going to be less talked about and less household namey than the mainstream hacky shit.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s funny because he hasn t, I think he was on Joe Rogan s show once, maybe?
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, once or twice.
2
SPEAKER_00
And he was with somebody else.
2
SPEAKER_01
Jeff Ross?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, he might have been with Jeff Ross.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah, because they did that like two mics thing, whatever.
2
SPEAKER_00
Two mics, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
But he s the quickest guy.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s no one funnier.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, him and you, you re super quick.
2
SPEAKER_00
Your recent appearance on Rogue One is hilarious.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, thanks.
2
SPEAKER_00
Just so fast.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re on with Ari and... Shane Gillis.
2
SPEAKER_01
Shane Gillis.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that was fun.
2
SPEAKER_00
We re going back in January.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know when this comes out.
2
SPEAKER_00
This will never come out.
2
SPEAKER_01
Neither will you.
2
SPEAKER_00
We re having fun.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yep.
2
SPEAKER_00
All right.
2
SPEAKER_00
So what does it feel like to bomb in stand-up comedy?
2
SPEAKER_00
Like to fail?
2
SPEAKER_00
Maybe the psychology of it first.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, just take me through it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because you were talking about being outnumbered in a fight, just being beat up.
2
SPEAKER_01
Very similar.
2
SPEAKER_01
By the way, this is like a no eye contact off.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
I like catching clips.
2
SPEAKER_00
We re both uncomfortable with it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s great.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s kind of nice to be with my people.
2
SPEAKER_01
But yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Do you need a sheet of paper to look at?
2
SPEAKER_01
I m going.
2
SPEAKER_01
I got a good sweet spot right there.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s a nightmare, but it s part of it.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s the validation, too, is the worst part.
2
SPEAKER_01
Cause you know, whenever you do comedy and kill, you can be a great comic, but even David Tell, these brilliant guys, they feel like they re getting, you feel like you re getting away with something.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t have a day job, I m telling jokes for a living, I m talking about my dick up here and they re fucking loving me and they call me a genius and all this, I m talking about my sack, you know?
2
SPEAKER_01
And it s great, it makes people happy and it s funny, but.
2
SPEAKER_01
That bombing when you bomb you go your first thought is like yeah you re right at first you re like.
2
SPEAKER_01
Fuck you got what you don t like this shit and then you just start going in you re like maybe isn t that good maybe they re right i do suck i knew i sucked i should become a mailman you know and it stinks and it feel you feel alone and you feel like.
2
SPEAKER_01
You wasted their time, and then you re like, what was I thinking?
2
SPEAKER_01
I could be a comedian.
2
SPEAKER_01
What the fuck?
2
SPEAKER_01
Who am I?
2
SPEAKER_01
Eddie Murphy?
2
SPEAKER_01
What am I doing here?
2
SPEAKER_01
So it s a lot of just spiraling out of horrible thoughts.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I also love that it hurts so bad.
2
SPEAKER_01
Bombing fucking hurts, because now everybody doesn t do it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think a lot more people could do comedy, probably, and figure it out.
2
SPEAKER_01
But the bombing is so brutal that it keeps
2
SPEAKER_01
One time I went to Minneapolis, I was like, this is a great city.
2
SPEAKER_01
The sun is shining.
2
SPEAKER_01
Why isn t this city packed?
2
SPEAKER_01
And they re like, because the winters are so bad, and we love it because it keeps everybody out.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I feel the same about comedy.
2
SPEAKER_01
The bombs are so brutal.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ve had bombs where I m in bed.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m just staring at the ceiling like, what the fuck was that?
2
SPEAKER_01
You have PTSD.
2
SPEAKER_01
I bombed at an arena once, 20,000 people.
2
SPEAKER_01
I did 30 minutes to silence.
2
SPEAKER_00
So it s not just like one joke fails.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
They start piling on like it s irrecoverable.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
And one joke failing is very common.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like a lot of audience don t even notice that bomb, because you know, you got so many jokes in a row, you can sandwich a good one, then a bad one, then a good one.
2
SPEAKER_01
But when you bomb, it s almost like they chose, we don t like you.
2
SPEAKER_01
Nothing you say will redeem yourself.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it s hard to get out of.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s like being pulled down by your hair.
2
SPEAKER_01
You can t get back.
2
SPEAKER_01
I can t win this fight no matter what.
2
SPEAKER_00
Can you get him back by acknowledging the elephant in the room?
2
SPEAKER_01
That helps, but they re still gonna go, that was funny when he made fun of it, but he sucks.
2
SPEAKER_00
He still sucks.
2
SPEAKER_00
He still sucks.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s the worst part.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re going, no, this is good.
2
SPEAKER_01
You guys just don t like me.
2
SPEAKER_01
Just because you don t like me doesn t mean I m bad.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I like going to open mics a lot, just listening because
2
SPEAKER_00
First of all, I think the audience in Open Mic, at least the ones I ve been to, is mostly, I guess, other comedians, or at least people who don t seem to wanna laugh at anything.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so, I just love it, because it s human nature and perseverance that is best.
2
SPEAKER_00
But here s comedians, like clearly, this is mostly in Austin, they have a dream.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, why would you get up there?
2
SPEAKER_01
Maybe some weird, you know,
2
SPEAKER_01
New Year s Resolution bullshit, but for the most part, it s people who want to be comedians.
2
SPEAKER_00
A lot of the open micers are people who clearly have done this for quite a long time already, at least a year or two, maybe five years, and they re often not very funny.
2
SPEAKER_00
the just bombing in front of an audience of like 20, where they re just sitting there, like, almost like mocking them with their eyes, or maybe, and I don t know, and they still push through, they still like, as if they re doing an arena and everybody s laughing.
2
SPEAKER_00
They still got that energy trying, almost like to an audience,
2
SPEAKER_00
that doesn t exist, like an audience of their dreams.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because I guess that you have to do that to keep the energy of the act going.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s just so beautiful to watch them try it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And also what happens, open mic, I don t know, five minutes, whatever they do, they walk off and then walk back off stage.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you can t, who do they look at?
2
SPEAKER_00
Do you make eye contact with people?
2
SPEAKER_01
You look at your phone, you look at your feet, you just zone out.
2
SPEAKER_01
You kinda, woo, you kinda go white.
2
SPEAKER_01
You just hear a white noise and go out.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s tough.
2
SPEAKER_01
But you need a little delusion to be a comedian.
2
SPEAKER_01
To get into it, it takes a little bit of delusion.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, you think you can do this?
2
SPEAKER_01
You got 10 years ahead of you of hell, and you re up for this?
2
SPEAKER_01
And most comics, we see a horrible crowd, and we see our friend bomb, and we go, yeah, he s bombing, but I ll get him.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ll get him.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then you don t get him.
2
SPEAKER_01
But that s human nature, too, is like, they don t like him, but they ll like me.
2
SPEAKER_01
And you need a little of that to keep going as a comedian.
2
SPEAKER_01
But you don t want too much delusion because then you re a psycho.
2
SPEAKER_01
But you need a little.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, a psycho could be good for a comedy.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s true, too.
2
SPEAKER_00
A lot of psychos.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mentioned to you offline that I talked to Elon, and we talked about doing stand-up.
2
SPEAKER_00
He s thinking maybe do a few minutes of stand-up.
2
SPEAKER_01
I was going to say, if you need a coach, Elon, I got you.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, maybe you should move to Austin to coach him full-time.
2
SPEAKER_00
Ah, hopefully he can fly me in.
2
SPEAKER_00
So what advice would you give to somebody who wants to try to do five minutes, like the early steps of trying to go to an open mic and say something funny?
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, that s the irony of comedy is, I don t know if it s irony, but it s like the beginning is the hardest part.
2
SPEAKER_01
Usually the beginning is the easy part.
2
SPEAKER_01
Hey, I m playing this level of Mario.
2
SPEAKER_01
I d start, I d jump over one Koopa Troopa, whatever.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then the end is like, Jesus Christ, I got 30 guys coming at me.
2
SPEAKER_01
Comedy is the opposite.
2
SPEAKER_01
The beginning is like.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s a gauntlet.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s just obstacles, and it s like you said, open mics.
2
SPEAKER_01
I watch these famous comedians on Netflix, and you go, this would all bomb on an open mic.
2
SPEAKER_01
They re killing in Radio City.
2
SPEAKER_01
This would bomb on an open mic.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s the weird part.
2
SPEAKER_01
So it s almost like you have to go through hell just to get to the promised land.
2
SPEAKER_01
And I would say,
2
SPEAKER_01
Rehearse the shit out of it, because you re gonna get frazzled up there.
2
SPEAKER_01
Everybody thinks, oh, this is good material.
2
SPEAKER_01
But you also forget about the other part of delivering it, having confidence, being likable, having timing, having a cadence, figuring out who you are, figuring out what the audience thinks you are or how they perceive you.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because you can go up there and say all this, but they go, that s the guy, he s clearly gay.
2
SPEAKER_01
Why is he acting like he s not gay?
2
SPEAKER_01
That s all, now they re not listening to the joke.
2
SPEAKER_01
So you gotta know how you look.
2
SPEAKER_01
And it s just repetition, repetition.
2
SPEAKER_01
And bombing is not failure.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s what you ve got to remember.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, look, if you do a killer hour and then you take it to Netflix and bomb, you re fucked up.
2
SPEAKER_01
But bombing is not failure.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s just data.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s going, oh, OK, I ve got to retool that.
2
SPEAKER_01
That didn t work.
2
SPEAKER_01
Something s wrong there.
2
SPEAKER_01
I missed a word there.
2
SPEAKER_01
So you ve got to treat the act almost like ingredients
2
SPEAKER_01
cooking in a dish, you know, like, oh, that, I put too many eggs in, take an egg out.
2
SPEAKER_01
You gotta treat it like that.
2
SPEAKER_01
And look, when you pull a bad cake out of an oven, you go, I fucked up.
2
SPEAKER_01
But it doesn t hurt your feelings.
2
SPEAKER_01
But when you bomb and fuck up, it hurts your feelings.
2
SPEAKER_01
So you gotta factor that in too.
2
SPEAKER_01
Your feeling s gonna be hurt.
2
SPEAKER_01
And just almost be a robot and just keep going towards that open mic.
2
SPEAKER_01
You know how scary an open mic is?
2
SPEAKER_01
Bombing sucks, but bombing in front of other comedians is way worse.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because they know what just happened.
2
SPEAKER_01
And they could have saved you, and they didn t.
2
SPEAKER_01
So it s way worse.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that they re gonna be your quote-unquote friends.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, exactly.
2
SPEAKER_00
For this journey.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, no, these are evil people mostly.
2
SPEAKER_01
Twisted, fucked up people.
2
SPEAKER_00
Can you tell in those early days, let s just talk about that, at the open mic level, that a joke is gonna be good on paper?
2
SPEAKER_00
I ll give you my experience.
2
SPEAKER_00
Maybe you can be my coach in this particular moment.
2
SPEAKER_01
You re like Larry Nassar.
2
SPEAKER_00
All right.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s fun, huh?
2
SPEAKER_01
Joking, everybody.
2
SPEAKER_01
I hope nobody takes it seriously.
2
SPEAKER_00
I now have an amazing team of folks who help me with editing, and they re now currently sweating.
2
SPEAKER_01
You gotta leave that one in.
2
SPEAKER_01
That was quick.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that was pretty good.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ll eat that one.
2
SPEAKER_00
That was good.
2
SPEAKER_00
All right, so going in front of an audience, just even to give a lecture terrifies me, which I ve done, but open mic, I mean, that to me, perhaps that s why I like going to open mics and listening is because it terrifies me so much, that idea of,
2
SPEAKER_00
going up there and bombing, I mean, it s scary.
2
SPEAKER_00
And to do even like one minute, to be honest, is scary.
2
SPEAKER_00
And five minutes, I m also watched enough open mics to realize that five minutes is a long time.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it depends on your comedy, but if you re doing fast stuff, five minutes is a really long time.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, it s eternity.
2
SPEAKER_00
I guess with a long story, two is a long time because if the story s not, you re building up to something.
2
SPEAKER_00
If the story s gonna fail, you just spent all that time telling the story that completely went flat, got nothing.
2
SPEAKER_00
I guess if you have a series of jokes, you can at least try to recover and do the Mitch Hedberg thing where like, all right, I ll cross that off.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, I m able to, I ve tried to write a few things and I m able to tell that it s really bad.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, that s better than most.
2
SPEAKER_01
Most people s egos kick in and go, no, this is good.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, see, I m able to introspect that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, it seems funny.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I guess the thing I m looking for is original.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, there s easy stuff.
2
SPEAKER_00
that you think is funny, but to me, originality is the thing you should be looking for, because then that s what actually becomes funny.
2
SPEAKER_00
Or rather, if it s original,
2
SPEAKER_00
even if it bombs, that feels like more a beautiful art creation that you did, like at least you swung for it, like you did something unique, because like even with open mic your first five minutes, there s so many, just go to enough open mics, you ll hear like all the, there s like a list of jokes that you just go to.
2
SPEAKER_00
First of all, you can make fun of the fact that
2
SPEAKER_00
you re at open mic, that you re doing this the first time and so on.
2
SPEAKER_00
You could do a lot of stuff where you make fun of your appearance in some way and so on.
2
SPEAKER_00
But yeah, you could do that.
2
SPEAKER_00
That takes actually, that s way harder than people realize to do it in an original way.
2
SPEAKER_00
To present who you are as a person very quickly enough to then put that person down in front of everybody else.
2
SPEAKER_00
So you have to reveal the,
2
SPEAKER_01
The audience is like that, because they go, he knows what we re thinking.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, exactly.
2
SPEAKER_00
But do it again in an original way.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so when I m trying to write stuff, not that I ve tried long, it s like 30 minutes, but enough to see like, oh shit, to write something original is really difficult.
2
SPEAKER_01
It is, but do you got a bit, anything?
2
SPEAKER_00
No, I don t.
2
SPEAKER_01
You didn t write any one line or anything?
2
SPEAKER_00
For this, no.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, just in general, ever in your life, ever written a joke?
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh, okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, but I don t have anything in my mind popped up.
2
SPEAKER_00
So the jokes that I ve written have more, like, for some reason, my mind goes to, like, dark places.
2
SPEAKER_00
So, you know, like,
2
SPEAKER_00
and not actually dark in the Mark Norman dark because you go really dark to where it s like almost absurd.
2
SPEAKER_00
My natural inclination is to go to like a dark historical place like Hitler and Stalin and almost, so go to that place and then talk about something absurd there.
2
SPEAKER_00
So like don t go like,
2
SPEAKER_00
like all the way, I don t know, I don t wanna give examples because it ll be clipped, but the Mark Norman style, look it up, he has a special on his YouTube, that kind, I want to almost explore the dark aspects of human nature more kind of.
2
SPEAKER_00
connected to actual historical figures, that s the inclination.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, I don t know, Nature s Metal, the Instagram channel that explores the darkness of nature, like something there.
2
SPEAKER_01
See, that s good that you already
3
SPEAKER_01
know that you ve kind of gotten to the core of your comedy already, and that s interesting.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s a step ahead.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I can hear, with most things that I do in life, I can hear the music from a distance in myself, like, okay, if you have anything, this is the direction it ll be without actually knowing exactly all the steps.
3
SPEAKER_00
And that s a nice motivation to be like, all right, well, if you do this for a long time, maybe you ll have a chance to get there.
3
SPEAKER_00
But you have to, that s where it s a feature to be super self-critical, I think.
3
SPEAKER_00
But then that s why it s fucking terrifying to walk up to a stage, stand there,
3
SPEAKER_00
and probably forget everything.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s the other part nobody thinks about.
3
SPEAKER_01
Just goes right out of your head.
3
SPEAKER_01
You go fight or flight.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s ugly.
3
SPEAKER_01
My first years were horrific bombing, horrific stammering, horrific not remembering the punchline.
3
SPEAKER_01
Maybe you got a setup going and they re kind of on board and you re like, ah, how s that?
3
SPEAKER_01
Camera out goes.
3
SPEAKER_01
And you just hate yourself.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s a nightmare.
3
SPEAKER_01
But you ve already kind of, maybe if you haven t done stand-up or whatever, but you kind of know your voice.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s pretty advanced.
3
SPEAKER_00
So you re not trying to be somebody else, I guess.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Just for having done like podcasts and lecture and that helps you.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve embarrassed.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve already done some of the work of the standups do, which is embarrass yourself in front of others for prolonged periods of time.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I ve done that without actually developing the funny.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right, right, right.
3
SPEAKER_00
but maybe the funny just is not that difficult to develop.
3
SPEAKER_00
No, it s super difficult, of course, but I mean, maybe the essential work of a stand-up comedian is just the embarrassment of finding who you are.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s a part of it, for sure.
3
SPEAKER_01
In the beginning, you re like, water bottle, what s funny about water bottle?
3
SPEAKER_01
I m a funny guy, I can make this funny, but that s not it.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s your shit, your shit, your dark stuff.
3
SPEAKER_01
For me,
3
SPEAKER_01
I tend to gravitate towards dark, but in a weird way where, you know, people will say like, hey, don t objectify women.
3
SPEAKER_01
But then they go, Caitlyn Jenner s beautiful.
3
SPEAKER_01
And you re like, well, wait, I know something s off here.
3
SPEAKER_01
Why can you objectify her, but not the supermodel?
3
SPEAKER_01
So what s going on there?
3
SPEAKER_01
And I like to play with that.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I have this joke where I say Caitlyn Jenner
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, women go, Caitlyn Jenner s beautiful, beautiful woman.
3
SPEAKER_01
I go, well, you look like her.
3
SPEAKER_01
And they go, fuck you.
3
SPEAKER_01
And you re like, there s a lot of truth there.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I like exploring that kind of, oh, you re trying to get one over on me, or you re lying to yourself, or what are we doing here?
3
SPEAKER_01
And I like that kind of comedy.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t see color.
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, I m black.
3
SPEAKER_01
No, you re not.
3
SPEAKER_01
Ah.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, that s fun, because you re lying.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, okay, so like big time comedians, such as yourself, don t like to think of yourself in this way.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, this is like where you over philosophize comedy, but.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, definitely.
3
SPEAKER_00
It seems like comedians.
3
SPEAKER_01
Don t say important, nothing worse than a comedian who thinks they re important.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so I was going, I was trying to find, as I was trying to say these words, I realized how cliche it is and how uninteresting it is.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m going to just... But there is something... I m worried this whole thing is uninteresting.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m like, who cares about comedy?
3
SPEAKER_01
There s like six comics on the planet.
3
SPEAKER_01
Nobody cares.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
I trust you in the pilot seat.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know what you re doing.
3
SPEAKER_01
You got listeners.
3
SPEAKER_00
They ve tuned out long ago.
3
SPEAKER_01
Look at Dan Carlin on here, huh?
3
SPEAKER_01
Is he around?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, we were just going back and forth on Twitter just now, I m a huge fan.
3
SPEAKER_00
He was on here before, he ll be back.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve been actually really trying to volunteer myself aggressively with Dan Carlin for like a Russian episode where I could speak Russian.
3
SPEAKER_00
There s certain documents, I talked with Jaco about this too, certain things,
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I just love the challenge of bringing Russian documents that I can read in Russian and then can translate and can try to capture the depth of the writing in the Russian language and communicate to the American audience.
3
SPEAKER_00
So much is lost in translation.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like there s so much pain and poetry in the Russian language.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s just connected to the culture.
3
SPEAKER_00
Every language, not every language, but,
3
SPEAKER_00
many languages are uniquely able to capture the culture of the people.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, in some way, they re the representation of the culture of the people.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so Russian is definitely that.
3
SPEAKER_00
It represents the full history and culture of the 20th century with all the atrocities, all the broken promises, all those kinds of things.
3
SPEAKER_01
Norm says Russian literature is, it s the most tapped into human existence than anything else.
3
SPEAKER_01
Norm.
3
SPEAKER_01
McDonald.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Big, big Russian literature guy.
3
SPEAKER_01
Dostoevsky, all that shit.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s funny that there is a gap with comedians, too.
3
SPEAKER_00
There s a culture of Russian comedy, like stand-up comedians that are totally- Is that right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t know these Russians.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I don t know today.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, oh, okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, more from the 80s and 90s, and there was a- Yakov.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s all I know.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s not, so there s like, of course, that s...
3
SPEAKER_01
I ve never seen you that offended.
3
SPEAKER_00
No, no, no, it s not offended, there s a different, there s like the kinesins and the, there s the edgy.
3
SPEAKER_01
Is that Russian?
3
SPEAKER_00
What do you mean?
3
SPEAKER_01
Wait, I thought you said there was Russian comics.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, Russian, I mean, I m comparing that.
3
SPEAKER_00
Or style.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m giving you like a style of darkness, like that s the kind of people that kind of challenge.
3
SPEAKER_00
I see.
3
SPEAKER_00
they give, again, this is to how important comedians are, is they give a voice to people where in the Soviet Union you really can t express your opposition to the government.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so comedians are exceptionally important there.
3
SPEAKER_00
for just, I don t know, channeling the anger.
3
SPEAKER_00
Even when sometimes it s not the actual opposition to the government.
3
SPEAKER_00
They re just channeling the anger, the frustration with the absurdity of life.
3
SPEAKER_00
you know, when there s a shortage of food, shortage of jobs, the absurdity of the bureaucracy, like a top-heavy government, just all of that can only sometimes be expressed with dark, absurd humor.
3
SPEAKER_00
And actually, why there s a culture of that kind of humor, you gather around the table with vodka, and all you can do is just,
3
SPEAKER_01
Talk shit and just be offensive, say horrible shit, ball bust.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I make school shooting jokes and people go, how do you do that?
3
SPEAKER_01
I m like, well, maybe that s how I deal with it.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, like how come I gotta empathize the way you do?
3
SPEAKER_01
Maybe we re different.
3
SPEAKER_00
All right, so now let s skip the whole open mic thing and crafting jokes.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s tough.
3
SPEAKER_00
Kerouac said, one day I will find the right words and they will be simple.
3
SPEAKER_00
When do you know the joke is done, it s perfect?
3
SPEAKER_00
You re somebody that does really sharp, fast jokes well.
3
SPEAKER_00
So there s somebody, I don t know, I don t know who you see yourself in the same school as.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re darker and faster than Hedberg, I think, in terms of just, I don t know, the turns you take.
3
SPEAKER_01
Hey thanks i appreciate it i think i got some norm mcdonald and maybe that s right you know obviously norm but chris rock was huge for me chris road like nineties chris rock was like.
3
SPEAKER_01
I didn t know you could do jokes like that i always love george carlin and groucho marx and bill murray as so many different types of comedy but when i saw the bigger and blacker bring the pain i was like.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God, this like, it hit me.
3
SPEAKER_01
So that was big.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then Norm s just like the funniest guy on the planet.
3
SPEAKER_01
So him being the smartest guy in the room, but acting dumb was great.
3
SPEAKER_01
So yeah, Chris Rock has that way of cutting to the bullshit, which I mentioned earlier.
3
SPEAKER_01
I like that cutting through the bullshit kind of style of comedy.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because you kind of go, oh, I m not crazy.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s what I thought too.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was too scared to say it, but I thought that.
3
SPEAKER_01
And he s saying it in a room where people are laughing.
3
SPEAKER_01
Maybe I m not an idiot.
3
SPEAKER_01
So that helped me.
3
SPEAKER_00
So it s observational, but not Jerry Seinfeld observational.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like going to the darker thing within society.
3
SPEAKER_01
Sounds so great, but I like him too, but seeing it, doing it about stuff like in your life, society.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, race, gender, government, politics, all that kind of stuff.
3
SPEAKER_01
Exactly, exactly.
3
SPEAKER_01
Sex, human emotions, jealousy, whatever it is, that s the good stuff.
3
SPEAKER_00
How d you feel when Norm passed away?
3
SPEAKER_01
Ah, that was a bummer because he was, you know, what, 61?
3
SPEAKER_01
And I just didn t see it.
3
SPEAKER_01
coming and I just, I ve watched so many hours of his stuff and I ve met him and he s like, he was like this comedic bar.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, hey, we got Norm, you know, there s so much shit comedy.
3
SPEAKER_01
Then you see Norm and you re like, this is next level.
3
SPEAKER_01
This is savant type shit.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then to lose him is like, ah, Norm had 20 more years at least of just content and content and thoughts and his point of view.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that s, we ll never get that.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that sucks.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, there is something about artists, like Jimi Hendrix dying too early.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like, you wonder.
3
SPEAKER_00
What was next?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, what was next?
3
SPEAKER_00
But then part of it is like, you know, it all ends for all of us and it s like walking away early is, it s kind of admirable.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s almost like, I did a pretty good job.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m good with that.
3
SPEAKER_00
And especially the way he did, which is not telling anybody.
3
SPEAKER_01
Nine years, his best friends didn t even know.
3
SPEAKER_01
And in this world of victimhood and I need clicks and I need people to love me, he got canceled and yelled at and in trouble and he could have pulled that cancer card and he never did.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, the integrity on this motherfucker.
3
SPEAKER_00
Did you get a chance to interact with him?
3
SPEAKER_00
How often did you meet him?
3
SPEAKER_01
I met him once at the Comedy Cellar, and we chatted for five minutes, and then he went on and did the Letterman set that he did.
3
SPEAKER_01
He was running the Letterman set.
3
SPEAKER_01
Sweet guy, nice guy.
3
SPEAKER_01
I didn t know him that well, but he s just brilliant.
3
SPEAKER_01
I also love a brilliant guy who does stupid stuff.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s a fun little combo there.
3
SPEAKER_01
Silly guys who are actually brilliant also,
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, like Louis C.K.
3
SPEAKER_01
is a brilliant comic, and he ll do a joke about farting on a kid.
3
SPEAKER_01
And you re like, that s great that he still finds farts funny, and he s also this comedic genius guy.
3
SPEAKER_00
I like that.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
And doesn t really acknowledge the genius.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
I like smart people, they re silly.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes, that s a good combo.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like you said, Elon is silly.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, super silly.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s great.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because we taught, we teach kids like, hey, put that down, stop that, quit cutting up, quit horsing around.
3
SPEAKER_01
But maybe that s some kind of sign of brilliance there.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, being like childlike and silly is a kind of wisdom.
3
SPEAKER_00
I feel like those people are way wiser than the people that, no offense to me, wear a suit and take themselves way too seriously.
3
SPEAKER_01
No, but you got a spark in you.
3
SPEAKER_01
You got a little, what s the word?
3
SPEAKER_01
Not elf, imp.
3
SPEAKER_01
A little imp in you.
3
SPEAKER_01
Give that a go.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know what imp?
3
SPEAKER_00
Little mischievous.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like a little- Is that a Tolkien character, imp?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, might be.
3
SPEAKER_00
An imp is a European mythological being similar to a fairy or a demon.
3
SPEAKER_00
You call me a fairy?
3
SPEAKER_00
Frequently.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay, similar to a fairy or a demon.
3
SPEAKER_00
I feel like that s a big leap.
3
SPEAKER_01
Big leap.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s not a great info bio there.
3
SPEAKER_00
Frequently described in folklore and superstition, the word may perhaps derive from the term imp, spelled with a Y, used to denote a young grafted tree.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s a little mischievous.
3
SPEAKER_01
You got a twinkle.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re the serious buttoned up guy, but this is a twinkle.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s a twinkle.
3
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
3
SPEAKER_01
And the audience can see the twinkle, and that s why you resonate, I think.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m sorry.
3
SPEAKER_00
Deep analysis by Mark Norman, psychological analysis.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay, but then back to the crafting of the joke, you said Chris Rock and Norm Macdonald, like what for you, how do you know when the joke is like done?
3
SPEAKER_00
Are there some jokes where you re like are proud of like, wow, that s well done.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, the joke is done, it s a tough question, because there s so many different kinds of jokes.
3
SPEAKER_01
There s what we call a chunk, which is a big idea with a bunch of jokes in the middle of it, and then a big crescendo at the end.
3
SPEAKER_01
Or there s a one-liner, or there s a tag of a joke that s also a joke.
3
SPEAKER_01
So the jokes come in different, like I have a joke where I say, I met my girl on that Jewish app.
3
SPEAKER_01
What s that Jewish app called?
3
SPEAKER_01
PayPal.
3
Nice.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s what the reaction you want from the crowd.
3
SPEAKER_01
But it s a fun turn, because you say your thing, and then I hit you with a misdirect.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that s what a joke is.
3
SPEAKER_01
A joke is basically me saying something that makes sense, but you didn t see it coming.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that s a perfect example of that.
3
SPEAKER_01
So that joke took forever to figure out, by the way.
3
SPEAKER_00
But you have to go to different services like PayPal.
3
SPEAKER_00
Venmo.
3
SPEAKER_00
What s funniest?
3
SPEAKER_01
Exactly, and I figured PayPal is funny because it has the word pay in it.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Venmo, it s also not really a good word.
3
SPEAKER_01
Venmo, PayPal.
3
SPEAKER_01
It just hits better.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, PayPal is funnier somehow.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s funnier somehow, and that s the beauty of comedy.
3
SPEAKER_01
There s a weird little magic into it.
3
SPEAKER_01
You can get technical all day and formulaic, but there s still that little bit of fairy dust that you don t know why this is funnier.
3
SPEAKER_00
Or imp dust.
3
SPEAKER_01
Imp dust.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
The why.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
So you know what joke is done when it kills and it, there s a roundness to a joke when you feel like this is buttoned up, this is done here.
3
SPEAKER_00
Is simplicity the right word there?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Is it like you re chopping stuff away or you re adding stuff?
3
SPEAKER_00
Like what does it feel like?
3
SPEAKER_01
Simplicity is always the best angle.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, you can get real high concept with a joke and still make it work, but the simpler, the better.
3
SPEAKER_01
I saw Dave Chappelle on stage once and Chris Rock and Demetri Martin were in the back.
3
SPEAKER_01
watching in awe.
3
SPEAKER_01
And Dave Chappelle, I can t remember the joke, but he said something about sex or women.
3
SPEAKER_01
And Demetri Martin goes, eh, it s a little easy.
3
SPEAKER_01
And Chris Rock goes, that s why it s good.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I remember hearing that as a young comic, like, ah, I m getting this like, you know, comedy lesson right here for these two titans.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so that was fun.
3
SPEAKER_01
Simple is key.
3
SPEAKER_00
So the easy is okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s such a weird, I think I remember,
3
SPEAKER_00
reading or hearing Eminem say something about maybe the song Slim Shady, one of the songs, he s like, I knew it was going to be good because it got like really repetitive and annoying very quickly or something like that.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that s the sort of the music equivalent of
3
SPEAKER_00
It s too easy.
3
SPEAKER_00
If it s super catchy, as a musician, you might get very quickly bored of it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Or as you re creating it, no, it s too easy.
3
SPEAKER_00
There needs to be some more complexity to it.
3
SPEAKER_01
I like complexity, but the best guys who are the ones who make complex shit look simple.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, you ever heard that Ben Franklin story, where he s talking to his friend, his friend s like, I m gonna start a hat store.
3
SPEAKER_01
So he puts a sign out, it says, hats for sale, $12.
3
SPEAKER_01
And Ben Franklin looks at it, he goes, well, you don t need the $12, because all they need to know is that you got hats for sale.
3
SPEAKER_01
He s like, all right, so he loses the $12, makes a new sign, hats for sale.
3
SPEAKER_01
And he goes, you don t really need for sale, because it s a business, people can put that together.
3
SPEAKER_01
So he just goes, all right, he makes a new sign, it says hats.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then Ben Franklin s like,
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, you don t really need the word hat.
3
SPEAKER_01
You can just put a picture of a hat.
3
SPEAKER_01
And he made a new sandwich with a picture of a hat and it like helped the business or something.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s like some old wives tale or whatever.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I think about that all the time when I m writing.
3
SPEAKER_00
I thought this was going to like, there was no sign.
3
SPEAKER_00
It went like super like- Oh, maybe.
3
SPEAKER_01
That could work too.
3
SPEAKER_00
As a comedian, so I m a fan of yours.
3
SPEAKER_00
I really enjoy you in conversations.
3
SPEAKER_00
Wow, now?
3
SPEAKER_00
I m getting nothing out of you.
3
SPEAKER_00
All right, I can t tell.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, like emotion?
3
SPEAKER_00
You re tough not to read.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m cold inside.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, just the quickness you have.
3
SPEAKER_00
Obviously, you re also a great stand-up comedian.
3
SPEAKER_00
What s your favorite medium to shine in?
3
SPEAKER_00
So you have a podcast yourself, an excellent podcast.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re often the podcast guest, which is always fun to listen to, how you re gonna deal with the different people.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re great on Rogan.
3
SPEAKER_00
What do you enjoy most?
3
SPEAKER_01
Podcasts are great because you can, you can stretch out a little more.
3
SPEAKER_01
You can breathe a little, you know, with a standup set, I like to be like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
3
SPEAKER_01
But podcasts are great because it s conversational.
3
SPEAKER_01
So you can be, it s almost like you re being funny with your friends.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
This is a piece, this is a presentation.
4
SPEAKER_01
But I think the podcast is great, but you don t get the reaction.
4
SPEAKER_01
Unless the host is laughing, you can t hear the guy in his car in New Jersey driving to work going, ah!
4
SPEAKER_01
Every now and then I ll read a comment like, I spit out my coffee when you said this, and I m like.
4
SPEAKER_01
But it s not immediate, you want the immediate, so stand up will always be number one, but there s no better feeling than killing in a room of people who don t know who you are, strangers, you re in the middle of nowhere, you left your wife at home, you left your kids, you left your house, you re in the middle of bumfuck Dickville and murdering for these hillbilly nobody whatever it is.
4
SPEAKER_01
and they re slinging their beers and cheering you on and they carry you out and you fuck some fat lady and you leave and you get back to your hotel and you go, holy shit, what was that?
4
SPEAKER_01
No one will ever know about it, just lost in the ether.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s the best feeling.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
Killing in obscurity, as Bill Burr would say.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, this is one of the things that sucks about giving lectures.
4
SPEAKER_00
at universities, or giving lectures in general, is when you look at the audience, several hundred students, they all have a bored look on their face.
4
SPEAKER_00
My face now probably looks bored, but I m actually excited to be talking to you.
4
SPEAKER_00
But there s something about just...
4
SPEAKER_00
There s something about a comedy called, maybe this is the contingent of laughter, but it gives people the freedom to just laugh, to remove that facade of, you don t have to pretend like you don t care.
4
SPEAKER_00
If you care, you can show it, and you can have fun with it.
4
SPEAKER_00
Probably liquor is helpful too.
4
SPEAKER_01
It helps, for sure.
4
SPEAKER_01
But there is a, especially, and that s why comedy I think is so popular right now, because
4
SPEAKER_01
HR is up our ass.
4
SPEAKER_01
We re scared of old tweets that might come back to haunt us.
4
SPEAKER_01
What did I say on that interview?
4
SPEAKER_01
Even people at offices are like, I put something on Facebook in 1999 that was about fat tits that I liked.
4
SPEAKER_01
Should I get rid of that?
4
SPEAKER_01
Even people say like, there s no cancel, whatever.
4
SPEAKER_01
There is something in the air right now that wasn t there before.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s the video, I m a Karen, I got caught at Trader Joe, whatever it is, people rat on each other now, everybody s tattletailing because they want the clicks.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s a horrible society we ve crafted.
4
SPEAKER_01
Stand-up comedy gets you to come out, and now people do it at stand-up shows too, sadly, but it gets you to come out and let that inhibition down.
4
SPEAKER_01
Because we re all human, we ve all had the fucked up thoughts like, man, that guy s fat as shit.
4
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t mean you hate the guy, it doesn t mean you hate fat people, it doesn t mean you re fat shaming, but you can t say that at the office.
4
SPEAKER_01
You can t go, Bob, you re fat as shit.
4
SPEAKER_01
You ll get fired for body shaming.
4
SPEAKER_01
But at the club, you go, that guy s fat as shit, and the crowd goes, he is fat as shit.
4
SPEAKER_01
And it s this weird cathartic thing, because all we do is tamp shit down.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s kind of like you ever meet a girl who s like all prim and proper in the bedroom.
4
SPEAKER_01
She s like, put a lamp up my ass.
4
SPEAKER_01
Ah, you know, whatever it is.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s because we got to get it out.
4
SPEAKER_01
We re all repressed in some way.
4
SPEAKER_00
So I guess what you re saying is comedy is important.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_01
Callback.
4
SPEAKER_01
All right.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well played, sir.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
What do you think about Austin?
4
SPEAKER_00
What do you think about the comedy scene in Austin?
4
SPEAKER_00
We talked about LA and New York.
4
SPEAKER_00
What do you think about what Joe s trying to create there?
4
SPEAKER_00
So I should say that the reason I moved to Austin, I have this dream of, it wouldn t be funny if I said this dream of becoming a comedian.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s an audience, at least.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s true.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, I always said you can hear the music in the distance.
4
SPEAKER_00
I have this dream around robotics and artificial intelligence, whether it s a company, whether it s something else, that was just pulling me to, I actually wanted to move to San Francisco, and then all my friends in San Francisco said, no, it s the wrong place.
4
SPEAKER_00
At this time, the cynicism there is just not conducive to like,
4
SPEAKER_00
taking big leaps into the unknown, excited about the future kind of thing.
4
SPEAKER_00
And Austin was that, for me in particular with Elon Musk, but also just the energy that everybody had, including Joe, the excitement about the future.
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t care if Austin burns to the ground and it actually is a complete failure, being excited about the future seems to be, like optimism about the future seems to be the thing
4
SPEAKER_00
that actually makes that future happen, makes a great future happen.
4
SPEAKER_00
So it s always cool for me to see Joe super excited about creating a culture in Austin, making it a comedy hub.
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t want to overstate it, but he, I mean, I think he really believes it ll be a very big place for comedy in the United States in general, in the world.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so just even believing that, that s powerful.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like, you start to make it, you start to make it happen.
4
SPEAKER_00
That energy is there.
4
SPEAKER_00
Anyway, so, but that s for me from just an outsider watching the fun of it.
4
SPEAKER_00
I should also mention for less of an outsider, more insider in the martial arts world,
4
SPEAKER_00
partially probably because of Joe, I m not sure, like John Donahuer, Gordon Ryan, the B team, all those folks, those are, that might be gibberish to you, but those are like some of the greatest grapplers and martial artists of all time.
4
SPEAKER_00
So it s also becoming this hub of martial arts.
4
SPEAKER_00
So the whole thing is just beautiful.
4
SPEAKER_00
Anyway, what are your thoughts about that scene?
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, there s a lot, lot here, a lot of things to mention.
4
SPEAKER_01
One, I think Joe did do that to a degree, you know, like all these people, Segura lives there now, a lot of comics live there.
4
SPEAKER_01
He s opening clubs, other clubs are opening.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think it s happening.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s the other thing is people go, everybody s moving to Austin.
4
SPEAKER_01
Austin s the new hub.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then they look at their watch and they go, five minutes went by, nothing changed.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s going to take
4
SPEAKER_01
years, but everybody wants it now, now, now.
4
SPEAKER_01
What?
4
SPEAKER_01
Awesome.
4
SPEAKER_01
There s no industry there.
4
SPEAKER_01
There s no Netflix, whatever.
4
SPEAKER_01
And you re like, yeah, I know, but it needs a minute.
4
SPEAKER_01
You can t just do this overnight.
4
SPEAKER_01
So people forget that.
4
SPEAKER_01
So it could happen huge.
4
SPEAKER_01
Just give it some time.
4
SPEAKER_01
I mean, he s opening a club.
4
SPEAKER_01
I went and saw it.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s incredible.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s so perfect for comedy.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s every detail.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s incredible.
4
SPEAKER_01
So it could happen still.
4
SPEAKER_01
I do think
4
SPEAKER_01
where there s a little biting off more than they can chew with Austin, because it s not that big.
4
SPEAKER_00
And it s spread out, I mean, yeah, it s not big, and the infrastructure s not quite there to support it.
4
SPEAKER_00
But it has a lot of, you know, comparing from the tech side, it has a lot of land to expand into, so it might become this... That helps.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like you re basically establishing, it s kind of like New York, you re establishing these whole neighborhoods.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
And you have the freedom to do that because there s a lot of space on all sides.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
4
SPEAKER_01
OK, so that helps.
4
SPEAKER_01
So, again, maybe some time.
4
SPEAKER_01
I do agree with that new hope that s kind of built into human beings of like, let s go to America.
4
SPEAKER_01
Let s go to Utopia.
4
SPEAKER_01
We even have it with space.
4
SPEAKER_01
Let s go to Mars.
4
SPEAKER_01
We got to see what s over there.
4
SPEAKER_01
And it s just red, dusty bullshit, but you still got to go.
4
SPEAKER_01
So I m with you on that about this new hope, this new land.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I think that is beautiful.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I think there s a lot of haters.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think there s a lot of naysayers who hate change, who hate anything new.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then I think you got to go, hey, that hurts.
4
SPEAKER_01
That sucks.
4
SPEAKER_01
Blow me, Dickless.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m trying something.
4
SPEAKER_01
You re a loser.
4
SPEAKER_01
Stop hating on me.
4
SPEAKER_01
I mean, how many people hate Elon Musk, you know?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s hilarious.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, there s some of the criticism on Austin.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like a fad.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like a lot of people are really people are excited about Austin.
4
SPEAKER_00
And somehow that s like it s like when Green Day became famous.
4
SPEAKER_00
You no longer want to be a fan of Green Day.
4
SPEAKER_00
But to me like this.
4
SPEAKER_01
Austin was already a cool town.
4
SPEAKER_01
Every comic five years ago was like, ooh, I got Austin this weekend, I can t wait.
4
SPEAKER_01
So it already had a buzz, but some people think maybe the buzz was the cool part, the fact that it was this off-the-beaten-path city, and now I get to visit it and then leave.
4
SPEAKER_01
But I think it could still be this comedy tech booming place.
4
SPEAKER_01
It just will take some time, and people want it right now.
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, on the tech side,
4
SPEAKER_00
It s already there.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s getting there very fast.
4
SPEAKER_00
So, I mean, Elon s really pushing that with the factory.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s just a huge number of people are moving there with jobs, like you re already starting.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then the opportunities to launch new companies is just incredible.
4
SPEAKER_00
I guess it s not right now.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like within months, within a year, that kind of thing.
4
SPEAKER_00
But like, it s an opportunity to just start to build shit in a new place.
4
SPEAKER_00
And it s cool.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s kind of like, you know, go to Mars.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like you get to start over.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I like the hope aspect.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think that s huge for people.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I m all for it.
4
SPEAKER_01
I hope it works out.
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t know if it will.
4
SPEAKER_01
But I don t know anything about economies and city planning and all that shit.
4
SPEAKER_01
It might be too early to say, but I hope it works.
4
SPEAKER_00
Are you still talking about Austin or Mars?
4
SPEAKER_01
Austin.
4
SPEAKER_01
Mars is, there s nothing there.
4
SPEAKER_01
There s no vagina there.
4
SPEAKER_01
There s no food there.
4
SPEAKER_01
There s no water there.
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
4
SPEAKER_01
It seems, I get space travel.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think it s important, but I don t know Mars is really gonna move the needle.
4
SPEAKER_00
So what are your thoughts about Elon Musk and SpaceX and launching rockets into space?
4
SPEAKER_01
I think it s all good because you could say, hey, we could just feed everybody.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I was like, yeah, that s true.
4
SPEAKER_01
By the way, these guys give a ton of money to like philanthropy shit that nobody cares about.
4
SPEAKER_01
By the way, you know, it s weird, like he could feed the Nigeria and with pocket change of his and you re like, well, maybe he has, you know, like I heard Bill Gates gave back so much money, he saved six million lives.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but that s a reverse Holocaust, by the way.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s pretty good.
4
SPEAKER_01
What have you done?
4
SPEAKER_01
You re a barista.
4
SPEAKER_01
So.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, I just think space travel is good because you learn about the place you re living in from going to space.
4
SPEAKER_01
It kind of helps you learn about this more.
4
SPEAKER_01
You could say, what s the point of going to this other there?
4
SPEAKER_01
But it does help, I think.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, doing difficult things in the engineering space seems to be a way to develop, as almost like an accident, as a side effect of doing a really difficult thing in a team of brilliant people, you develop things like the internet.
4
SPEAKER_00
And you could argue that the internet maybe is not so good for society.
4
SPEAKER_00
No, I m just kidding.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s good and bad.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
But it s like a pull-up.
4
SPEAKER_01
You re trying to get your bicep going, but hey, before you know it, you got decent forearms.
4
SPEAKER_01
But you weren t working on the four arms, you wanted the bi, but you got the four.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I think that s kind of what space travel is.
4
SPEAKER_00
I like how this pivoted into a workout routine advice.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m trying to get an analogy going here.
4
SPEAKER_00
All right, they work pretty well.
4
SPEAKER_00
I ll take it.
4
SPEAKER_00
All right.
4
SPEAKER_00
What are your thoughts about, since I m a robotics person, I d be curious to see what,
4
SPEAKER_00
Do you think about the space at all about, first of all, autonomous vehicles with Tesla Autopilot and Waymo self-driving car?
4
SPEAKER_00
I m not sure if you re familiar with all the autonomous vehicles and so on.
4
SPEAKER_00
So those are robots on wheels.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then there s also legged robots.
4
SPEAKER_00
So next time you re in Austin, you get to meet some of the legged robots I ve been working on.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I find those kind of,
4
SPEAKER_00
a fascinating way to explore the nature of intelligence in our computers, but also explore our own intelligence, and also explore our own, like, what makes us connect to other living beings, whether it s dogs, cats, or other humans.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like, there s some magic there that s beyond just intelligence.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like, when I have the robot dog, there s some aspect to it that,
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t know, brings me joy in a way that a dog does, in a way that a good friend does.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I m not sure if that s some kind of anthropomorphism, like where I m projecting my hopes for what this thing is.
4
SPEAKER_00
But it s kind of built in.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s just a source of joy.
4
SPEAKER_00
Maybe it s connected to the fact that there s just like a loneliness within all of us, within me, and it s just nice to have other things in your life
4
SPEAKER_00
that move, that recognize you, that kind of thing.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I suppose it s nice to even just have a plant.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it is.
4
SPEAKER_01
Plant goes a long way.
4
SPEAKER_01
You see a guy with plants in his apartment, it changes the apartment because they re alive.
4
SPEAKER_01
You got to water them.
4
SPEAKER_01
You got to put sun on them.
4
SPEAKER_01
So, yeah, I think there s something there.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I think you can see people s reactions when you show them advanced technology like these dog robots or these robots that dance and shit.
4
SPEAKER_01
People are like,
4
SPEAKER_01
What the fuck?
4
SPEAKER_01
It hits home in some way, whether it s fear or you want to fuck them, clearly, whatever it is.
4
SPEAKER_01
But it does connect with you in some way.
4
SPEAKER_01
So I m with you.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I think this is why I don t think robots will take over.
4
SPEAKER_01
You always hear that robot.
4
SPEAKER_01
They re making them too advanced.
4
SPEAKER_01
They re going to wipe us out, blah, blah, blah.
4
SPEAKER_01
If robots get at human emotions,
4
SPEAKER_01
That is scary, because they could get mad at us and kill us, and they re stronger, and they don t need sleep, they don t need food, they don t need water, they don t get jealous.
4
SPEAKER_01
But if they have emotions, then I think we can dominate them, because who knows emotions better than us?
4
SPEAKER_01
We ve got thousands of years of evolutionary emotional bullshit.
4
SPEAKER_01
We can go, hey, robot, I heard your wife fucked that Black and Decker, huh?
4
SPEAKER_01
They re gonna crumble.
4
SPEAKER_01
We can bully them.
4
SPEAKER_00
Emotionally manipulated robots.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yes, that s when we ll win.
4
SPEAKER_01
Right now, they could kill us.
4
SPEAKER_01
They could just, we d all die.
4
SPEAKER_01
Then we shoot them back.
4
SPEAKER_01
Bing, bing, bing, bing.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s no good.
4
SPEAKER_01
But if they do get emotions, then we can go, hey, you look like hell.
4
SPEAKER_01
What is that, a rusty bolt?
4
SPEAKER_01
Hey, you re dropping some oil there, you know, you loser.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think we could win if they do get emotions.
4
SPEAKER_00
This goes back to your father being able to undercut you with a single word.
4
SPEAKER_01
You re right.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so we re the creators of the robots and then the robots will just, you would say the exact thing where the robot would be like, that son of a bitch.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then he goes back to his hole and just sits there miserable.
4
SPEAKER_01
Right, yeah, hardware looks more like software to me.
4
SPEAKER_01
You can t get it up.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yada, yada, yada.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
But I m not worried about robots.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I think self, what do you think about the self-driving cars?
4
SPEAKER_01
Is that just wiping out the horse and buggy?
4
SPEAKER_01
Isn t that just progression of technology?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, so I don t know if you ve driven in a Tesla, for example.
4
SPEAKER_01
I have, I wrote in the passenger, I drive it.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, there s several stages in that.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think the problem s way harder than people realize, and for quite a while, it ll just make driving more pleasant.
4
SPEAKER_00
It ll make it...
4
SPEAKER_00
less stressful, it ll take over some of the boring bits for you and make it easier.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s something that happens actually when the car is driving for you in the following way.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s staying in the lane, it s keeping distance to the car in front of you, maybe it s changing lanes.
4
SPEAKER_00
it allows you to relax a little bit.
4
SPEAKER_00
You still have to be alert, but you become like a passenger and you get to take in the world.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, somehow that s more relaxing without making you necessarily bored more.
4
SPEAKER_00
It energizes you more.
4
SPEAKER_00
So I just think it makes the driving experience more pleasant.
4
SPEAKER_00
But when you actually fully automate cars, when you can just completely tune out and start reading a book or go to sleep, that might change.
4
SPEAKER_00
society in ways we don t even understand because you ll have, I mean, it ll probably change the nature of roads because the cars, because now you can be super productive.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so it no longer quite matters to you as much how long it takes to get from point A to point B.
4
SPEAKER_00
because you re not wasting that time, you just continue working.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like public transit that comes to you.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so there will be maybe less roads and bigger roads and it ll just change the nature of how we get from point A to point B. But then couple that also with the fact that we seem to be more and more comfortable existing in the digital world.
4
SPEAKER_00
So maybe we won t wanna go outside more and more, we ll just interact with each other virtually.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I don t mean Zoom meetings, I mean just in other ways that s more fulfilling than a Zoom meeting.
4
SPEAKER_00
But then maybe not, because there s something deeply uncompelling about Zoom meetings.
4
SPEAKER_00
Podcasts that are remote, unless they re super information dense, at least to me as a podcast fan, kinda suck.
4
SPEAKER_01
They suck.
4
SPEAKER_01
There s no connect.
4
SPEAKER_01
It goes back to the dog thing with the zoom.
4
SPEAKER_01
There s no connection.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and we re not, you know, I don t understand why we re not even making eye contact, but it s something there.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s in the room.
4
SPEAKER_01
There s pheromones and that s like out of our understanding.
4
SPEAKER_01
Probably just some kind of weird biological.
5
SPEAKER_00
You know you ever have Cheerios in a bowl?
5
SPEAKER_00
The Cheerios tend to...
5
SPEAKER_00
They tend to go together.
5
SPEAKER_00
You see a cluster of Cheerios.
5
SPEAKER_00
They re never really hanging out on the other side, and that s kind of how people are in real life.
5
SPEAKER_01
I wonder what the physics of that is.
5
SPEAKER_01
So they come together and they stick.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s something with molecules.
5
SPEAKER_00
I don t know, I can t remember what it was.
5
SPEAKER_00
But it was fascinating, and I think that s how people are.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I think you try to write a TV show or craft a movie with your team, Zoom, nothing there.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s like phone sex versus penetration.
5
SPEAKER_00
One day you ll learn that.
5
SPEAKER_01
I know nothing of either the, I look forward, because I think there s a phone sex Netflix documentary that, there s a show or something like that that is really popular that I want to go watch, so at least I can learn about that.
5
SPEAKER_00
Okay, I could send you some links.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh, on the internet?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
But yeah, self-driving car, I think it s just inevitable, it s coming, and these truckers are gonna have to figure something out.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I mean, that s an under-understood industry, actually, because there s not, there s a lot of trucking jobs, and people don t wanna, well, people don t wanna actually take them anymore because it s such a difficult job, so it won t have, or a lot of people believe it won t have as big of a negative impact as folks anticipate.
5
SPEAKER_01
There ll be other automation, I think they ll have a huge impact.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, for sure.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, you already see it in McDonald s.
5
SPEAKER_00
You go to the beep, beep, beep.
5
SPEAKER_00
Why do you want to get yelled at by the heavyset woman of color, you know, for making a bad order when you can just, you know, hit the screen?
5
SPEAKER_00
But those interactions, I think, are human.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that s part of life.
5
SPEAKER_00
So it is scary taking away everything.
5
SPEAKER_00
How long till we re not fucking?
5
SPEAKER_00
That s coming, too.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Then there s gonna have two types of people.
5
SPEAKER_00
Are you a fuck in real life or are you a digital fuck person?
5
SPEAKER_00
I m a digital, I like real fucking, sorry, we can t date.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s coming.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, there s also the reproduction side of sex, which is like with genetic engineering, you ll be able to specify a little bit of details.
5
SPEAKER_01
I talked to Jamie Marazzo about that, like where you can,
5
SPEAKER_01
specify like, you know, it ll start with like, I want my child not to have
5
SPEAKER_01
like a high likelihood of diabetes or something like that.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then you just get to specify intelligence, you just get to specify those kinds of parameters until you re basically trying to create a perfect human and you lose some of the magic or the flaws that make us who we are.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I m pretty sure in the full lineup of humans, so let me give you some information.
5
SPEAKER_00
Lay it off, I m sorry, break it down.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m sure you researched this thoroughly, but a male of the human species, the Homo sapien, produces 500 billion sperm cells in a lifetime.
5
SPEAKER_01
So that s all, some more than others.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s all genetically unique humans that you could produce.
5
SPEAKER_01
So even across those 500 billion, you can select.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so- What do you mean, like abort some?
5
SPEAKER_01
No, you can choose which of them you want.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, just imagine all the genetic possibilities that are there, like all the possible, like you won the race.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_00
Shocking.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, this is a winner.
5
SPEAKER_00
You won all the 500 billion?
5
SPEAKER_01
You have to imagine what the competition was.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, just tards all day long.
5
SPEAKER_00
Handicap.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, so it s not actually the fastest sperm or like it s I think a lot of his timing and luck is what it seems like.
5
SPEAKER_01
There s actual papers on this, and I ve actually been reading them.
5
SPEAKER_00
I hope so.
5
SPEAKER_01
So it s not just like the fastest sperm to the egg.
5
SPEAKER_01
OK, there s a timing thing.
5
SPEAKER_01
So you were just lucky.
5
SPEAKER_00
All right.
5
SPEAKER_01
I believe that.
5
SPEAKER_01
So it s interesting to think about, like once you re able to specify
5
SPEAKER_01
some parameters of what your child is like, how that changes the nature of even just like the intimacy of two humans getting together and making, creating together a child.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, it changes it.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s almost like, I don t know, it becomes like a factory line of some kind.
5
SPEAKER_00
if you don t meet naturally.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, if you don t meet naturally, and then you don t, and you get to optimize your child, then it s some like you have to consider utilitarian type of things, like what s good for society, and it ll probably be regulation about what kind of children you can have or not.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like your child cannot have an IQ below this or above this or something like that.
5
SPEAKER_01
Your child cannot.
5
SPEAKER_00
We already kind of do that.
5
SPEAKER_00
VIP clubs like I you re kind of ugly or women go.
5
SPEAKER_00
Hey, he s not tall enough.
5
SPEAKER_00
We kind of do it a little yeah, especially sexually Yeah, we do can t get on the roller coaster if you re this short, whatever it is, you know, we do it in some capacity but here this would be like
5
SPEAKER_01
fully transparent and to a degree that is hard to imagine.
5
SPEAKER_01
The way we currently do it, you can at least get around it.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_01
You can at least trick your way onto the roller coaster, even if you re short.
5
SPEAKER_00
Right.
5
SPEAKER_00
Or the fat guy can get rich so he can get laid.
5
SPEAKER_00
There s other ways.
5
SPEAKER_01
At the risk of asking the totally wrong person this question, what advice would you give to young people today in high school and college about how to have a successful career or career they re proud of or maybe have a life that they re proud of?
5
SPEAKER_00
Well first of all you gotta be, you gotta want a life you re proud of, not everybody has any integrity, a lot of people just want short money, I wanna feel good, look good, right now, I wanna do Molly, boom I ll feel good, you know, but you should,
5
SPEAKER_00
Space it out you should it s almost like saving money so you can use it later nobody wants to save money what they say like eleven percent of america actually has money saved a thousand dollars or some shit is wildly low.
5
SPEAKER_00
Everybody wants it now now we got immediate gratification i think.
5
SPEAKER_00
The key to happiness and satisfaction is working for something, even if it s like a baby.
5
SPEAKER_00
If you could have a baby in five minutes, if a woman, you jizzed in her and she had a baby, five minutes, boom, newborn, healthy, I think you d be more likely to throw it away.
5
SPEAKER_00
if you could make it that quick.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s the fact that you spent nine months backbreaking the labor, the lactating, the ripped placenta and the hymen or whatever the fuck.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s what makes you love it.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I think it s the same with comedy or making money or whatever.
5
SPEAKER_00
Look at these kids who like child stars.
5
SPEAKER_00
They all become heroin addicts at like 22 because they ve just, their sensors are burned out, their pleasure sensors.
5
SPEAKER_00
You didn t have to earn it.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think earning it is a big part of life and always try to do better, try to do more, try to learn new things.
5
SPEAKER_00
Hey, I m bored.
5
SPEAKER_00
Life sucks.
5
SPEAKER_00
Play the piano then, you chooch.
5
SPEAKER_00
But you won t do it because it takes effort and failure and all that.
5
SPEAKER_00
But that s the good part.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I know it s hard to see.
5
SPEAKER_00
So I think that s a good key to life is work hard at something you care about and then love the result.
5
SPEAKER_00
The hard work, the journey is actually,
5
SPEAKER_00
way more important than just getting something.
5
SPEAKER_00
Everybody wants to go on Amazon, I got a package, then you feel good for 10 seconds and, all right, let s go on Amazon again.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then it s just a dumb cycle of you being...
5
SPEAKER_00
disgusting and gluttonous, so work for it.
5
SPEAKER_00
Everybody wants to take steroids and just boop, I m buff.
5
SPEAKER_00
Why d you point at me?
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, I m just saying.
5
SPEAKER_00
Because I m Russian or what?
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, I saw the Icarus.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
But no, I m not saying you re on roids, I m just saying you d be way bigger.
5
SPEAKER_00
But I m just saying, you know, work for something.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then I would also, young people, eat shit early.
5
SPEAKER_00
eat shit early i know a guy who can get canceled or whatever and he had an out early but he tried to get by me try to ride it.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it all came crumbling down but if you eat early like yeah i fucked up i did that whatever was.
5
SPEAKER_00
He would ve just kind of been shit on for a month, and then it would ve gone away.
5
SPEAKER_00
But now it s his whole identity, and that sucks.
5
SPEAKER_00
So eat shit early, and I know it s hard to see, what do I mean early?
5
SPEAKER_00
I m in the present.
5
SPEAKER_00
But look ahead, look back, this time will pass.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, look at high school.
5
SPEAKER_00
High school was the biggest thing in our lives.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God, this exam.
5
SPEAKER_00
Susie Q hates me.
5
SPEAKER_00
The football player beat me up.
5
SPEAKER_00
Ah, I ll never recover.
5
SPEAKER_00
Now you don t even think about high school.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s just a blip in your dumb life, you know?
5
SPEAKER_00
And that s what this is now.
5
SPEAKER_00
This ll just be a blip.
5
SPEAKER_00
So remember that and work towards something and work hard and care about the result.
5
SPEAKER_00
If the result isn t good, try it again.
5
SPEAKER_00
And failure is not always bad.
5
SPEAKER_00
We look at failure as this end all, be all.
5
SPEAKER_00
My life s over, I failed.
5
SPEAKER_00
But failure s really just learning.
5
SPEAKER_00
So that s something.
5
SPEAKER_01
So in summary, eat shit early and eat shit often.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_01
All right, Mark Norman.
5
SPEAKER_01
Eat ass.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s escalated quickly.
5
SPEAKER_01
All right, I have a list of random questions for you.
5
SPEAKER_01
What activities make you lose track of time?
5
SPEAKER_01
Ooh.
5
SPEAKER_01
Just have that, go into that zone.
5
SPEAKER_01
You have this happiness, contentment about you that you just truly enjoy.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think a good conversation, like I ll sit at the comedy cellar with friends, maybe a little whiskey s flowing, and when you re really just vibing and inhib, inhib, inhibity?
5
SPEAKER_01
You can do it.
5
SPEAKER_00
What is it?
5
SPEAKER_00
Inhibited.
5
SPEAKER_00
Inhibited.
5
SPEAKER_00
Uninhibited.
5
SPEAKER_01
Uninhibited.
5
SPEAKER_00
When you re just vibing and you re uninhibited and you re saying crazy shit and you re laughing and you re not worried, am I seeming cool right now?
5
SPEAKER_00
Am I seeming likable?
5
SPEAKER_00
When you re just you 100% and it s all coming out of you and then they re saying stuff and you go back and forth and you feel that excitement.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, they re talking, but I want to say my thing.
5
SPEAKER_00
And you get all keyed up.
5
SPEAKER_00
I love that.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I look at my watch, I m like, fuck, it s three in the morning.
5
SPEAKER_00
We ve been talking for five hours.
5
SPEAKER_00
So I love that, that makes the time fly by.
5
SPEAKER_00
Also I bought a, speaking of self-driving cars, I bought a 1973 BMW car and it s classic and it s stick shift and it s grizzly and gritty and rusty and it s a bucket of bolts, but I love driving it.
5
SPEAKER_01
Bucket of bolts.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
You and Tom Waits are poets.
5
SPEAKER_01
Have you taken like a long trip anywhere, like road trip in your life or with this BMW?
5
SPEAKER_00
Not with it, it s pretty new, but I will.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s a new 97.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s new to me.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it just, it goes in the face of everything we re doing now.
5
SPEAKER_00
Everything is digital, everything is automated, everything is hands-off, everything is delivered.
5
SPEAKER_00
And this is the most hands-on thing in the world.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I am dialed in, man.
5
SPEAKER_00
I got the tachometer, I keep an eye on that.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I put the wrong gear in, shit.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, it s about to stall, put some gas, put some clutch.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it s all just,
5
SPEAKER_00
brain power and staying in focus and all that.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it s the opposite of tweeting and texting and watching porn or whatever.
5
SPEAKER_00
So I almost needed that in my life.
5
SPEAKER_00
So I bought this car just to have this little exercise.
5
SPEAKER_01
I hope you don t mind that I m just trying out random questions I wrote on you that are completely insane.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m a guinea pig, jizz in my face.
5
SPEAKER_00
Bring it on, baby!
5
SPEAKER_01
This would be edited down to five minutes.
5
SPEAKER_01
If everyone on Earth disappeared and it was just you left, what would your days look like?
5
SPEAKER_01
What would you do?
5
SPEAKER_00
That s tough, because I m already an introvert, and I try to avoid people mostly.
5
SPEAKER_00
I like a one-on-one, but crowds and all that is tough.
5
SPEAKER_00
So basically unchanged?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s what I was going to say.
5
SPEAKER_00
But then that s the irony, is I would be so sad to not talk to anybody.
5
SPEAKER_00
So it s this weird, bittersweet thing.
5
SPEAKER_00
But I don t know what I would do, man.
5
SPEAKER_00
I guess it s kind of like when you re hungover, you just go into the primal survival mode.
5
SPEAKER_00
I gotta get food, I need water, I m horny, jerk off, you know, you just go, you re not like playing the piano or painting or at the gym.
5
SPEAKER_00
So I think I would just go into urges man, primal urges, find food, store food.
5
SPEAKER_00
Am I safe?
5
SPEAKER_00
Make weapons.
5
SPEAKER_00
Build a shelter that I can t get attacked in.
5
SPEAKER_00
I would go all survival mode.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then once I maybe realized if I was safe or not, there s no wild roaming dogs, I would start exploring and maybe somehow get a vehicle and I would try to expand and that would be it.
5
SPEAKER_00
And maybe I d journal.
5
SPEAKER_01
Exploring to what?
5
SPEAKER_01
To try to find new experiences?
5
SPEAKER_00
New life.
5
SPEAKER_00
Maybe there is another guy out there.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh, so always there s a possibility.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, hope.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then maybe there s a better place I could live.
5
SPEAKER_00
Let s find that and then moving on.
5
SPEAKER_00
Then maybe there s more food over here.
5
SPEAKER_00
So yeah, the hope would drive me.
5
SPEAKER_00
But it would be bleak and sad and horrible also.
5
SPEAKER_01
So what you re saying is you really want other people to be there so you can hide from them.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yes, yes, well said.
5
SPEAKER_01
All right, what s an item on your bucket list that you haven t done yet?
5
SPEAKER_01
Think about something you d be very upset if you died and you haven t done.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, I m terrified of having kids, you know, just because I m a child myself and I m selfish and lazy in a way.
5
SPEAKER_00
So kids are like, this is your whole life now.
5
SPEAKER_00
This is it.
5
SPEAKER_00
You gotta not let this thing die.
5
SPEAKER_00
You gotta love it.
5
SPEAKER_00
You gotta raise it.
5
SPEAKER_00
So kids scare the shit out of me, but I also feel like if I don t have them, I ll regret it.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, you ve seen so many people like you who are fundamentally changed by kids.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like it s a source, it s a source of, like a deep source of happiness, even though you didn t anticipate it.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
So you like, you penciled it into your bucket list.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yes, yes.
5
SPEAKER_01
It might be on there, okay.
5
SPEAKER_01
You want kids?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, well, I want kids.
5
SPEAKER_01
I wanna get married.
5
SPEAKER_01
I wanna have kids.
5
SPEAKER_01
I kind of,
5
SPEAKER_01
I don t like choice, so in the following way, I appreciate the value of scarcity and the power of scarcity.
5
SPEAKER_01
I don t like the modern dating culture.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s not some religious thing or whatever.
5
SPEAKER_01
I just like one girl for a long time, or at least swinging for that always, like swinging for the fences.
5
SPEAKER_00
But you could be swinging right now.
5
SPEAKER_01
There s a different use of the word swinging.
5
SPEAKER_00
Sure, sure.
5
SPEAKER_00
But I m saying, you could be, you look great, you re handsome.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, thank you.
5
SPEAKER_00
Muscular.
5
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
5
SPEAKER_00
You get the job done, so I feel like you wouldn t leave without an orgasm on her.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but I just like to, you know, about furries, I like to dress up as animals and I just have trouble finding others who like the same.
5
SPEAKER_00
They re up there, I could show you some chat rooms.
5
SPEAKER_01
You re also my coach for the internet, okay.
5
SPEAKER_01
What are you most afraid of?
5
SPEAKER_00
I guess on Unlived Life, I was a big fan growing up of like wild guys, you know, like these Teddy Roosevelt s who would go out and hunt lions and like bar fighting guys.
5
SPEAKER_00
I was obsessed with Hunter S. Thompson types.
5
SPEAKER_00
And look.
5
SPEAKER_00
This is what I love about guys like, who s a good example?
5
SPEAKER_00
Like Hemingway.
5
SPEAKER_00
Hemingway was the manliest guy.
5
SPEAKER_00
He had the rifle and the elephant gun and the whiskey and the writing and the women and the fistfights.
5
SPEAKER_00
But people forget that the other side of that coin is I m sure he was in a lot of hotel rooms weeping.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m sure he was lonely as fuck.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m sure he had some wicked hangovers.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, he killed himself for Christ s sake.
5
SPEAKER_00
So obviously he was dealing with something.
5
SPEAKER_00
So the key to me is having this adventurous life living to the fullest doing crazy shit scaring yourself but also not killing yourself like also not hating cuz i used to party a lot hard i used to.
5
SPEAKER_00
Bang a lot of gals, and the flip side is like, this girl hates you now, or you got herpes, or you re hungover, or your mom is like, where are you?
5
SPEAKER_00
You never call me anymore.
5
SPEAKER_00
You re like, oh, my mom, let Ty go with my mom.
5
SPEAKER_00
I got to connect.
5
SPEAKER_00
So there s a horrible side to the party animal.
5
SPEAKER_00
The Keith Richards we don t see is not pretty.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, he s already weird looking, but he s partying, he s smoking, he s living, but there s another side of that coin.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I think the key to life is living that fucking crazy, awesome, badass life and also having some, you know, meaning and a little bit of, what s the word?
5
SPEAKER_00
Not just not killing yourself, not going sad, not being depressed.
5
SPEAKER_00
There s a medium there, a sweet spot.
5
SPEAKER_00
Does that make sense?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so taking big leaps and Hemingway grabbing life by the balls, but at the same time not crushing the balls.
5
SPEAKER_01
Does that metaphor work at all?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, perfect.
5
SPEAKER_00
Look, Evel Knievel, we all know him.
5
SPEAKER_00
What a badass, fearless, oh man, what a cool dude.
5
SPEAKER_00
He s got balls.
6
SPEAKER_00
of steel, but he also lived like the back half of his life in a fucking Barca lounger where his legs were made of steel and he couldn t see straight and his dick didn t work.
6
SPEAKER_00
So, you know what I mean?
6
SPEAKER_00
You gotta have a balance, but you still want the balance.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m willing to take a little bit of shit for a little bit of fun, but you don t wanna go too hard.
6
SPEAKER_01
You gotta still risk it.
6
SPEAKER_01
I mean, Hunter S. Thompson, it didn t end well.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
But it was quite a ride.
6
SPEAKER_00
Quite all right.
6
SPEAKER_01
What small act of kindness were you once shown that you will never forget?
6
SPEAKER_00
Wow, that s a great question.
6
SPEAKER_01
I just wrote these for the guinea pig.
6
SPEAKER_01
You re the guinea pig.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s great.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s a keeper.
6
SPEAKER_00
Keep that question.
6
SPEAKER_01
This is where we re like workshopping questions here.
6
SPEAKER_00
All right, I ll take it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Now you re open biking.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
This is your version.
6
SPEAKER_00
Let s see.
6
SPEAKER_00
There s a couple of ladies in high school who were kind enough to hand job me.
6
SPEAKER_00
That was nice, which I really appreciate.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t think women know how much that means to us.
6
SPEAKER_00
Women are like, oh, I m not a piece of meat or whatever.
6
SPEAKER_00
And you re like, I know, but if you just gave me a hand job, it would make my world.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s like telling a kid he s smart or loved.
6
SPEAKER_01
See, most people mention a math teacher in middle school that inspired them to get into science.
6
SPEAKER_01
You give a shout out to the thing.
6
SPEAKER_00
Well, that s part of it.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s not the nicest, but I m just saying that goes a long way.
6
SPEAKER_00
All right.
6
SPEAKER_00
Let s see.
6
SPEAKER_00
Kindness.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s a great question.
6
SPEAKER_00
I want to give you a good answer.
6
SPEAKER_00
I got lost when I was like six.
6
SPEAKER_00
I was walking around my dad and I zoned out and went away.
6
SPEAKER_00
And next thing you know, I don t know where I am.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m in a neighborhood.
6
SPEAKER_00
This old guy finds me crying on a lawn somewhere and he goes, come inside.
6
SPEAKER_00
And he tried to call my parents and nothing came of it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Eventually they found me after like nine hours, cops were there, the FBI is out there, fucking helicopters.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I guess, you know, that s nice.
6
SPEAKER_00
This old guy took me in for a couple hours and just sat me down and kept me safe.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s something.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh, how about Enos, my transvestite nanny?
6
SPEAKER_00
Very kind.
6
SPEAKER_00
He did you hear about this?
6
SPEAKER_00
No.
6
SPEAKER_00
OK, we had this transvestite nanny who was like a drag queen, but it was in the 90s, so it was weird.
6
SPEAKER_00
It was new.
6
SPEAKER_00
And my bike got stolen and he
6
SPEAKER_00
You know, my parents are like, yeah, what are you gonna do?
6
SPEAKER_00
They re poor kids, you know?
6
SPEAKER_00
And he was like, fuck it, we re gonna go get that bike.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, this guy s in a wig and high heels, big black guy.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I m like, ah, what are you gonna do?
6
SPEAKER_00
You know, it s gone.
6
SPEAKER_00
And he s like, no, we re gonna go get it.
6
SPEAKER_00
So we got in the van and drove around my neighborhood, saw the kids fucking with the bike, you know, five street toughs.
6
SPEAKER_00
And he goes, all right,
6
SPEAKER_00
You wanna come out, or should I just do this? 
6
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, you do it, I m terrified, what are you, crazy?
6
SPEAKER_00
And he got out of the van in full, you know, heels and wig, and he went up to these guys and they went off, oh my god, look at this fucking guy, homo, faggot, all this shit, you know, it s the 90s.
6
SPEAKER_00
And he just stared at them long enough to where they were kinda like, alright, well I guess we re gonna fight you now.
6
SPEAKER_00
And he goes, that s not your bike.
6
SPEAKER_00
And they go, what are you going to do about it?
6
SPEAKER_00
And he puts his hand on the middle of the bike, and they didn t do anything.
6
SPEAKER_00
And he just picked it up and said, that s what I thought.
6
SPEAKER_00
Put the bike over his shoulder, slid the van door open, threw the bike in, and we drove off.
6
SPEAKER_01
Somebody stuck up for you.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, they had tools.
6
SPEAKER_00
They could have fucking tuned him up.
6
SPEAKER_00
Two seconds.
6
SPEAKER_01
That actually takes courage.
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah, real courage.
6
SPEAKER_01
And then the reason you do and act like that is that makes a kid like you feel like there s somebody on your side.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s powerful.
6
SPEAKER_00
Someone on your side is big.
6
SPEAKER_00
Is big.
6
SPEAKER_00
That goes a long way.
6
SPEAKER_00
Especially when they have the risk of getting their ass kicked or their job taken away or whatever it is.
6
SPEAKER_01
Now we re gonna get philosophical, maybe a little bit emotional.
6
SPEAKER_01
Would you rather lose all your old memories or never be able to make new ones?
6
SPEAKER_00
It s a tough one, but I d go easy answer, make new ones.
6
SPEAKER_01
But don t you think all the shitty things that happened to you?
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh, so my hard drive is wiped clean.
6
SPEAKER_00
Is it memories or is it how every memory affected me?
6
SPEAKER_00
Two.
6
SPEAKER_01
I mean, this is a very- Why do they go hand in hand?
6
SPEAKER_01
I think the reality about memories is you replay them often.
6
SPEAKER_01
You go back to them, even when you re not aware of it, you really go back often.
6
SPEAKER_00
And they change, you change them too.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you change them to suit your understanding of the world.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
6
SPEAKER_01
And so the dark view you have, both the hope and the cynicism you have about the world is so deeply grounded in the,
6
SPEAKER_01
in the memories, that you re basically, I would say if you erase all memories, I think you re really starting over.
6
SPEAKER_01
With maybe the wisdom of how the world works, but not your, so much of your personality is gone.
6
SPEAKER_01
You would really, it d be interesting how your comedy would change.
6
SPEAKER_01
Maybe you would have a good sense of timing, you have a good sense of like the writing process maybe, but like,
6
SPEAKER_00
No, you re making some good points, but let me ask you this.
6
SPEAKER_00
Let s say I go to Lake Cuomo with my girlfriend.
6
SPEAKER_00
Now, I wipe the memory, or I keep my old memories.
6
SPEAKER_00
Let s say I go to the Tuscany with the lady.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
I just won t remember that?
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but you get to experience it in the moment.
6
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
6
SPEAKER_01
You ll get to enjoy it.
6
SPEAKER_01
Can I look at a photo of it?
6
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
6
SPEAKER_00
What the hell is this?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, exactly.
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh, fascinating.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s exact.
6
SPEAKER_01
The rules are pretty simple.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I think everyone knows how the rules go.
6
SPEAKER_01
So you would.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
So what?
6
SPEAKER_00
Well, I was going to say start new ones, but then I realized I wouldn t be who I was without them.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s what you re saying.
6
SPEAKER_00
So I guess I d keep them because I am 38.
6
SPEAKER_00
So I ve gotten a good chunk out of life.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
And let s be honest.
6
SPEAKER_01
How many years do you have left?
6
SPEAKER_00
I know.
6
SPEAKER_00
Right.
6
SPEAKER_00
I got AIDS.
6
SPEAKER_01
Is it better to have loved?
6
SPEAKER_01
Okay, this question is ridiculous.
6
SPEAKER_01
Is it better to have loved and lost or to have never loved at all?
6
SPEAKER_01
It sounds cliche, but there s a question.
6
SPEAKER_00
Definitely better to loss.
6
SPEAKER_01
So you enjoy the ups and downs.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s life.
6
SPEAKER_00
Sun and rain, baby.
6
SPEAKER_01
I kinda like both, the whole thing.
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The loss, every time you lose something, it really makes you distinctly realize how much you valued it.
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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SPEAKER_01
Like in my, when I m sad, like when I m feeling alone, and I m sitting there alone at home, and I wish I could hang out with somebody, that s like a realization how awesome people are.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
So it s like the missing, the, yeah.
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We don t have a lot of that in life anymore, because we can have anything we want immediately.
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So the missing has gone away, which again, drives down the joy of having it.
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SPEAKER_00
So I think you re right, you need both.
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So like you said, you have a condition that, a terminal condition, not many years left.
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Do you think about your mortality?
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You think about that?
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All day, every day.
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Are you afraid?
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SPEAKER_00
Not afraid, because it s inevitable, so it s more like, how are we gonna handle this?
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SPEAKER_00
It s like the winter is coming, let s stock up on some fucking nuts.
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But the existential nature of it, like the fact that this ride ends, what the hell are you doing any of this for?
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Satisfaction, happiness.
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Short term, but there is a presumption there that it kind of goes on forever.
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I think if you truly think about the fact that it ends,
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Your brain almost shuts it down.
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Yeah, there s some kind of protective switch that just goes off.
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I mean, that s why the Stoics encourage people to meditate on death, because it somehow reorganizes your priorities.
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It helps you, like, holy shit, this ends, make the most of the day.
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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SPEAKER_01
It s just a nice thing, but still, you can t quite comprehend that the thing ends.
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Little things to you know people go like oh, we got a layover between our flights.
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It s an hour What are we gonna do for an hour?
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SPEAKER_00
It s like what do you mean?
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SPEAKER_00
What are you gonna?
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Do for an hour?
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You re gonna kill an hour.
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SPEAKER_00
Let s kill.
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SPEAKER_00
How are we gonna kill this hour?
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This is part of your life.
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SPEAKER_00
You re just trying to get rid of it.
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SPEAKER_00
You re just trying to kill it.
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SPEAKER_00
That always blew my mind.
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SPEAKER_00
Like, hey, fuck it.
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SPEAKER_00
Let s hit the airport bar.
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SPEAKER_00
Let s get a candy bar or something.
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SPEAKER_00
Anything with bar.
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SPEAKER_00
But it s just, you ve got to live.
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SPEAKER_00
I hate this.
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SPEAKER_00
Like, how are we going to burn?
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, the bar didn t open for 15 minutes.
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SPEAKER_00
What are we going to do?
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SPEAKER_00
Well, we got 15 minutes.
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SPEAKER_00
The world is our oyster.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, make the most of it.
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And like you said, in modern day, actually the boredom is a gift.
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When you re waiting for something, that s a gift.
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You get to be with your thoughts.
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SPEAKER_01
Those are the same thoughts you ll have when you re in your deathbed.
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There won t be a...
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You won t be scrolling TikTok on your deathbed.
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SPEAKER_00
I hope not, Jesus.
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SPEAKER_01
You d be a lot more, actually, maybe you would be.
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SPEAKER_00
What a sad existence.
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SPEAKER_01
Because it would be a good, like, content creators would be like, ooh, I m dying, this would be good content.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I want to be able to film the exact moment it goes, beep!
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SPEAKER_00
Last words, I wonder what my last words will be.
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SPEAKER_01
It s a good way to end the account with a bang.
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SPEAKER_00
Yep, I like that.
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SPEAKER_00
Well, you know, have you ever seen that meme where the old guy in bed goes, I wish I had tweeted more, you know, and then he dies.
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SPEAKER_00
It s so true.
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SPEAKER_00
Could be the future.
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SPEAKER_01
What do you think is the meaning of life?
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SPEAKER_00
I don t think there is one.
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SPEAKER_00
Everybody always throws that out there.
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SPEAKER_00
There isn t a meaning.
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SPEAKER_00
I think we re here.
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SPEAKER_00
We re lucky to be here.
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SPEAKER_00
I think there s no afterlife.
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SPEAKER_00
There s no heaven.
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SPEAKER_00
That s all shit we tell ourselves to feel better.
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SPEAKER_00
And I think you gotta just, it s like saying, what is the meaning of this food I made?
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SPEAKER_00
Well, it s just, you enjoy the food.
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SPEAKER_00
You try to get the most out of it.
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SPEAKER_00
You built the food.
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SPEAKER_00
You prepared it.
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SPEAKER_00
So just get what you can out of it.
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SPEAKER_00
Don t die.
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SPEAKER_00
And try to make it last as long as possible.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, but you look at Earth, it s like four billion years old.
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SPEAKER_01
And life started early on, like, like simple cell bacteria life, like a one billion years in.
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SPEAKER_01
And then it started like having lots of aggressive interaction.
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Eventually, there s predator and prey and sex, lots of sex.
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Lots of sex, lots of violence.
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SPEAKER_01
And then through natural selection, there s just a whole evolutionary process of animals that have loved and lost and murdered and gotten murdered and all that kind of stuff.
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And it s somehow led to human civilization.
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SPEAKER_01
We re super busy trying to create things and creating beautiful art, creating beautiful comedy.
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SPEAKER_01
Just always creating something new.
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SPEAKER_01
It feels like it s tending towards something.
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SPEAKER_00
It s not dying.
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SPEAKER_00
If you die tomorrow, you still have all these hours of pods.
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SPEAKER_00
So it s kind of, you think you re cheating death in a subconscious way, I think.
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SPEAKER_01
Right.
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SPEAKER_01
You know who Ernest Becker is?
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SPEAKER_01
I ve heard the name.
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SPEAKER_01
It s a book called The Now of Death, this idea that if you don t acknowledge
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SPEAKER_00
Books on my shelf.
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SPEAKER_01
Girls love it.
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SPEAKER_01
Really?
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SPEAKER_01
Like Dostoevsky.
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SPEAKER_01
No, I m just saying.
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SPEAKER_01
You want to bring Tolstoy, Dostoevsky.
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SPEAKER_01
Russian literature, back to norm.
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SPEAKER_01
It s good to bring to, because no American has read any Russian literature, but they all appreciate it if you bring it.
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SPEAKER_01
And it s not like they re going to ask you any legitimate questions because they haven t read it.
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SPEAKER_01
So you can always pretend like you ve read it.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s a little dense.
6
SPEAKER_01
Can we get a shortened version?
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SPEAKER_00
Yes, or make a movie with, you know, Ben Stiller that I can just go, oh, this is based on, what is it, Life and Death?
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SPEAKER_00
No, what s the one?
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SPEAKER_00
War and Peace.
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SPEAKER_00
War and Peace, yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so Ernest Becker s theory, and there s this whole terror management theory that basically says that, like, our terror of death, our fear of death is one of the
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SPEAKER_01
central creative forces of the human condition.
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SPEAKER_01
It s the reason we re trying to, yeah, cheat death.
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SPEAKER_01
We re trying to delude ourselves that somehow we can become immortal through our art.
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SPEAKER_01
That s why you ve uploaded your special to YouTube, because you think your special will outlive all of human civilization.
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SPEAKER_01
You think YouTube will outlive all of human civilization.
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SPEAKER_00
I could go in tomorrow.
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SPEAKER_01
That can go away tomorrow.
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SPEAKER_01
All of this can go away.
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SPEAKER_01
So I m truly grateful, Mr. Mark Norman, that you would spend your very valuable time with me today, even though it could all go away.
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SPEAKER_01
This could be the last day of our lives.
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SPEAKER_01
And won t you be quite upset that this is how you spent it?
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SPEAKER_00
Ah, yeah, in your hotel room.
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SPEAKER_00
What am I?
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SPEAKER_00
You re like Harvey Weinstein here.
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SPEAKER_00
You heard me up, and now I feel fucked.
6
SPEAKER_01
Just wait what we have ready for you after the podcast is over.
6
SPEAKER_01
All right, brother, thanks so much for talking today.
6
SPEAKER_00
Thank you, it was great.
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SPEAKER_00
Comedy.
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SPEAKER_01
Thanks for listening to this conversation with Mark Normand.
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SPEAKER_01
To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description.
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SPEAKER_01
And now let me leave you with some words from Mark Normand himself on his Twitter, which you should definitely follow because it s hilarious.
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SPEAKER_01
The worst thing about getting Omicron for Christmas is you know it was regifted.
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SPEAKER_01
Thank you for listening, and hope to see you next time.