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The following is a conversation with Will Sasso, a comedian, actor, podcaster, and someone I ve been a fan of for many years since Mad TV in the late 90s to recently with the 10 Minute Podcast and now the new podcast called Doodzie.
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And now a quick few second mention of each sponsor.
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Check them out in the description.
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It s the best way to support this podcast.
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We got Eight Sleep for naps, Athletic Greens for multivitamins, BetterHelp for mental health, Onnit for supplements, and Indeed for hiring.
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Choose wisely, my friends.
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And now, onto the full ad reads.
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As always, no ads in the middle.
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I find those ultra super annoying, and since I get to decide how to do things with this particular podcast, I don t like to do annoying things.
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but i still try to say interesting things sometimes only half related to the sponsors so maybe you would like to listen but if you skip please still check out the sponsors i enjoy their stuff maybe you will too
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This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep and it s pod three mattress.
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So I just took a nap.
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I feel incredible.
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I passed out for 20 minutes.
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All on my Eight Sleep bed, both the mattress and the mattress cover is an Eight Sleep.
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The surface of the mattress was cold to a perfect temperature with a warm blanket.
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I turned off, like an old Pentium PC, in a matter of seconds.
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I turned back on, like an old Pentium PC with a vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
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Anyway, you can get the Pod 3 cover.
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You don t have to use their mattress.
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You can put the cover on your own mattress.
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It s all awesome.
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Whatever you do, it s awesome.
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I guarantee it.
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Check it out and get special savings when you go to 8sleep.com slash Lex.
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This show is also brought to you by Athletic Greens, and it s A-G-1 Drink, which is an all-in-one daily drink to support better health and peak performance.
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I drink it twice a day.
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Sometimes I forget the travel packs when I m traveling, and I miss it.
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I look out the window, and I wonder...
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What is this all for?
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Why are we here?
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In fact, I do that with Athletic Greens too, but there s a little more zest to it with Athletic Greens.
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What am I even talking in these ads?
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I wonder if anyone s actually listening.
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Like I can literally say anything.
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I wonder if there s like just two people too drunk to skip ads.
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They re just listening to this right now.
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Well, I m with you brothers and sisters.
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What was I talking about?
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I don t know.
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But you should check out Athletic Greens, and you ll get a one-month supply of fish oil when you sign up at athleticgreens.com slash flex.
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And given this ad read, they will very quickly cancel their support, I am very sure.
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No.
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They love me, I love them.
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No matter what, whether they re a sponsor or not, I will always love Athletic Greens.
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This episode is also brought to you by BetterHelp, spelled H-E-L-P, help.
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I often go in my mind to a place where I m just sitting alone on a desert island.
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I imagine talking to that volleyball, Wilson, and just the peace of being away from humanity for a time.
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So you can be alone with your thoughts.
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I imagine that.
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And I also imagine writing help in the sand when I m too sick of my own thoughts.
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Speaking of being too sick of your own thoughts, that s just a funny thing to say.
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Of course, your thoughts, dark or beautiful, low or high, are your lifelong companions and you should bring them to the surface and you should play with them, you should dance with them.
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And talk therapy is one way to do that, I think.
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Podcasting is a kind of talk therapy, that s a way to do that.
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So you should really try out BetterHelp, which is a way to do online talk therapy.
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You can check them out at betterhelp.com slash Lex and save on your first month.
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This episode is also brought to you by Onnit, a nutrition supplement and fitness company.
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They make AlphaBrain a nootropic that helps support memory, mental speed, and focus.
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Like I said, I just took a nap.
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That s component number one of ultra focus.
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Component number two for me is caffeine.
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Then of course there s the zen-like, maybe people think of it as meditation, ability to block out all the other distractions.
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But even then, sometimes that s not enough if you really want to accomplish something difficult, mentally speaking.
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And so for that, I will take an alpha brain every once in a while to help me be the extra super boost for that deep work session.
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By which I mean, sitting there, staring at a thing, thinking about it, and not allowing your mind to deviate from the focus on that thing.
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Anyway, you can get a special discount on an alpha brain at lexfriedman.com slash on it.
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This show is also brought to you by Indeed, a hiring website.
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I ve used them many times, many, many times in the past for the hiring efforts I ve done for the teams I ve led, teams I ve been a part of.
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I m doing quite a bit of hiring now for the podcast creative kind of efforts.
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A lot of us spend a lot of our day working on a thing.
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Hopefully, it s a thing that you really enjoy doing.
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When it s a thing you enjoy doing, there s, to me at least, nothing more rewarding than doing it with people you care about, people that inspire you, people that challenge you, people that teach you stuff.
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A great team is a beautiful thing.
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So I really, really care about good hiring tools, services, websites, and Indeed is great at that.
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Anyway, and I m also hiring quite a bit for a lot of things I m doing now.
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I m a little bit behind schedule on that, but I will get to all the resumes quickly.
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And I m also using Indeed as part of this effort.
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They have a special offer, only available for a limited time.
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Check it out at indeed.com slash Lex.
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This is the Lex Friedman Podcast.
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To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description.
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And now, dear friends, here s Will Sasso.
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So let s call it the elephant in the room.
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You wore a black suit in a recent episode of Doodsy.
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Yes.
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You wore a black suit again today.
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Shakespeare, then Mark Twain said, clothes make the man.
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What kind of man does a suit make you?
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Well, me in particular, it makes me a fellow who did not get this dry cleaned in between, because that episode of the show, as we sit here now, was around a week ago.
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So that s the kind of man it makes me.
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Well, the nice thing is you re wearing pants, I think.
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Yes, I am wearing pants.
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I don t think you were wearing pants in the episode.
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That s correct.
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I prefer to wear shorts, but this was a special occasion, so I m wearing pants.
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And I thought it fitting, obviously, to just wear, you know,
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the black tie, and clothes do make the man.
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And I would not consider myself to be a man of leisure, but I do enjoy shorts, because my legs get hot.
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So that s what kind of man the shorts make me.
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How often do you wear a suit?
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I fucking hate wearing suits.
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So what is this, a statement of, is it ironic?
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Or are you honoring the gods of this particular podcast?
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I m honoring the gods of this particular podcast would be a good way to put it.
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Yes.
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No, this is in reverence of and in dedication to you.
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and our newfound friendship here, which we are making on the podcast.
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You and I just met.
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Everything that we re saying here are the first things that we re saying to each other.
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So I m meeting you on common ground, dressed like... Well, I ve been actually a one-way friend of yours for many, many years since MADtv.
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When did you start on MADtv?
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So that was, I mean, in the 90s?
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97, yeah. 97.
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So I was a huge fan of yours, and the cast was incredible.
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It was one of the funniest shows ever created.
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Your whole journey watching through that was incredible, from Mad TV to Three Stooges to the podcast, the 10 Minute Pod, and then your new podcast is incredible.
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Cheers.
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My favorite role that you played was the Mountain in the game of Thrones.
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What was it like working with dragons?
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Well, the dragons are usually tennis balls on the end of C stands, but sometimes they hang out.
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It s a C stand.
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It s a little like the thing you got the camera on here.
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Oh, this is like film lingo.
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Yeah, no, I understand.
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I m trying to impress you with my film lingo.
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You know what a banana is?
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Yeah.
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When you walk like this, you do a banana.
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I take it back.
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I did not know what a banana was.
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Yeah, see?
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It means something.
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Yeah, because it s just a food normally.
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You fancy Hollywood folk with the lingo.
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My name is Bjorn Hapthor Bjornsson, and I am seven foot four.
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And yeah, so dragons don t scare me, even though they ve been extinct for a while.
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You scientists, right?
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Is that check out?
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Yeah, I actually, I m really into video games.
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I don t know if you play video games.
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There s a Skyrim video game that s part of the Elder Scrolls series.
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And for the longest time, there s a legend that there s dragons.
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I think it started in Daggerfall.
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And so I always, I grew up playing those video games and dreaming of one day meeting a dragon in a virtual world.
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And eventually you did in Skyrim.
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So it s...
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Dragons represent, I don t know exactly what they represent, but they represent maybe this kind of mythical creature that is bigger than anything humans can possibly comprehend, maybe.
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They show up so often in myth, from the religious stories of the snake and so on, the serpent.
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I don t know what that is.
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Breathing fire, that s kind of weird.
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It s interesting when I think about dragons, because now that you bring it up, these are people that probably wouldn t have access to the fact that there used to be dinosaurs.
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Maybe they did.
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If they didn t, they re drawing things that look like, you know, a dinosaur cousin, but cool, that can breathe fire and has wacky wings and a spiked tail.
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Yeah, where the heck did they come up with that?
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Because they re clearly, of course, represented in mythology all the way back to
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No, not cave drawings.
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Well, the Egyptians probably knew what the, and they could time travel.
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So they would have gone back to the caves.
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Well, the aliens that placed living organisms on earth could time travel and they could plant legends into the, into the collective intelligence of the human species.
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Yeah, and perhaps they were thinking of us to do something smart with it and we didn t.
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We just came up with Skyrim.
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Sorry, that was very offensive.
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I m sorry, I don t mean to offend you with your video game.
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I m more of a Burger Time Donkey Kong dude.
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Oh, what is that?
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That s an original?
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Burger Time was an arcade game that later showed up on the Intellivision.
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What was Intellivision?
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I believe it was made by Texas Instruments.
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Horrible first generation video game console.
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And Burger Time, it s like Super Mario.
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You just got to stay away from the eggs and the pickles and stuff.
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And you just go, meep meep meep, and the bun falls.
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And then you go down to the, meep meep, and the cheese, and then the meat.
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I m not going to say it s as complicated as Skyrim, but it took me a while to finish it when I was seven.
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Did you play video games?
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Was that a part of your life, a part of the source of happiness for you at all?
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It was.
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It was.
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I played video games up until around, I think in 2010, I got the Red Ring of Death on my Xbox 360.
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That was it?
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That was it.
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I never, or whatever the Xbox was then.
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Yeah.
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I had, I was playing,
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I had finished the Grand Theft Auto that was out, and I d finished the Red Dead Redemption.
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So I was doing that thing where you just drive around the streets of New York, or just ride around on your horse shooting people, and throwing grenades into groups of people in Grand Theft.
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And you re describing the same thing that happened a decade later, because it s now Red Dead Redemption 2, and there s still not a new Grand Theft Auto.
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Yeah, there isn t right?
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Yeah, they re working on it.
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They re always flirting with that idea.
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You know who else plays Skyrim?
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Another person, the two people I m a huge fan of from that time in Mad TV is Bobby Lee.
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He plays Skyrim?
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He s a huge fan of Skyrim.
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He plays every... So what Bobby Lee loves to do is to grind, do the boring task over and over, gather mushrooms.
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Like in Skyrim, you can fight dragons, you can fight all kinds of things, but you can also gather mushrooms and different ingredients and make potions and all that kind of stuff.
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He loves the ingredients.
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You know, in the hunter-gatherer world, he s the gatherer.
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He s the gatherer.
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Yeah.
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I ve heard him described that way, and he likes to describe himself that way.
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I worked with Bobby not too long ago.
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He came and did a couple days on this thing we were shooting, and I was looking forward to catching up with my old pal.
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And if you know anything about Bobby Lee, you d probably be able to predict that he spent that entire time playing farming on his iPad.
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Well, humans are a source of anxiety and trouble, so sometimes it s good to escape human interaction through video games.
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Totally.
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I m with him on that.
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He s one of the funniest people ever.
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What do you think makes him funny?
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It s just all the times you ve worked with him, the non-standard, non-sequitur way of his being.
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Bobby Lee is one of the most raw people, raw performers, who lets it all hang out to the degree that he will even get naked in front of his audience, which is usually a metaphor for someone doing stand-up.
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I m bearing all, I m showing you everything, and Bobby will just pull his bird out of his pants.
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Yeah, I don t think he understands metaphor too much.
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He embodies metaphor.
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Yes, he embodies metaphor.
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We call him the gathering metaphor, Bobby the gatherer metaphor.
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He s a metaphor for something else, for somebody else s life.
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Someday he ll be in the dictionary representing some kind of concept, maybe the metaphor itself.
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Yeah, once this whole thing falls apart and we are climbing the kudzu vines that spiral up the Sears Tower, like they say in Fight Club, Bobby will go back to his gatherer form and be happy as a pig in shit, just walking around in a loincloth with his bird hanging out, cracking jokes to people and climbing up on them for a stool lap dance or whatever he does.
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I d love to dig into something he did.
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You guys did a lot of great podcasts together.
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He asked you in a very uncomfortable process of why you don t do standup.
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So let me ask you, do you hate money?
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Well, I m originally from Canada, yeah, so I m a frickin  pinko socialist.
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Is that where you come from?
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That s not a nice thing to say.
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I thought the Soviet Union, that is a nice thing to say.
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You could call someone a pinko socialist.
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Right?
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Comrade.
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He s a good socialist.
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With red.
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Like some bold colors, yeah.
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There was an interesting tension in your voice and the way you talked about it.
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There s just not a source of happiness for you.
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You respect the art form, but it was not something that...
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you were connected to, you felt connected to.
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SPEAKER_00
That s a good way to put it, yeah.
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I respect the art form a lot.
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And I grew up with all the albums and stuff.
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I had an older brother and sister.
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So we had George Carlin, we had Richard Pryor, we had Robert Klein, we had Gilda Live, the Gilda Radner concert.
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We had all sorts of stuff.
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But I don t know, there s a lot of reasons.
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I do feel like a career in show business,
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It never goes the way you plan, like most things.
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And I was fortunate enough to get started outside of my native Vancouver, or in my native Vancouver.
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I grew up in the burbs outside and there was a lot of industry there.
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So I was fortunate enough to get started as an actor when I was like 16.
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There were some times early on where I came up with some stand-up stuff and did it, but yeah, I quickly abandoned it.
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And then, you know, you go through, you do Mad
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and stuff and then and that s where my this is gonna sound weird do I sound as anxietal as I did when I was on Bobby s podcast trying to avoid his questions well he was giving you this face this whole time that was making
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the whole just atmosphere feel full of anxiety, so I m trying not to give you a face.
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The whole time I was saying, play cool, play cool.
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Play cool, Lex.
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Play cool.
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You said it out loud a couple of times.
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I did.
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He cut that out.
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Play cool.
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Play cool, dude.
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Cut it out.
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Maintain, bro.
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Here s what I ll say.
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There s two ways to do it.
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I think it s lame when someone who s done one thing for a while goes and starts doing stand-up out of nowhere, because I think it s an art form that s
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under attack because it s not like anything else.
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You need, although now you can, of course, you know, make whatever you want.
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It s the era of self-publishing as far as making a product and putting it out there, which is getting easier, of course.
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And I can t wait to talk to you about that with AI and how it s changing art.
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But in stand-up, all you need is a microphone.
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And, you know, perhaps it d be good to have some mental illness.
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And then you can just run up there and talk forever.
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And I say this to, you know, comedians, it s like, you guys have to deal with just an influx of people who aren t sure why they re doing comedy.
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I would ask comedians, I mean, not good ones, good ones, you know what they re doing, but everyone else, like, what are you doing?
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Why?
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Why are you doing standup?
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Having said that, I am allergic to money.
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Yeah, do you think they have a good answer for that?
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Why are they doing it?
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Because I actually like, when I m in Austin, I like going to open mics, just listening.
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It s inspiring to me.
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Both the funny and the unfunny people, because they ve been doing it for several years, sometimes over a decade, and they re still at it.
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SPEAKER_00
They re still right there, they re going for the punch, and then especially open mics that are really sad, in that there is only like five other people in the audience, and they re usually just other comedians.
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and they re still going all out, as if they re in front of a stadium.
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But that, to me, sounds like someone who loves it.
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Yeah.
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I got no questions for that person.
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I got questions for someone who goes sideways from, here, I m recognizable doing something, and then I m doing stand-up.
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Because it s like, and truly, look, I ve been fortunate enough to be in the business for a long time, and at this point, if I came up, I mean, doing live stuff is fun.
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I have friends that are like,
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You know, some guys who are primarily sketch people, or you would look at them as sketch people, and they can sell tickets for being sketch people.
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And we ll talk about it, and they re like, you know, I do a monologue, and I do a little stand-up, then I do a song, then I do another monologue, then I play off the audience, do a little stand-up.
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But stand-up is, it s almost like playing music in that, you know, people are going up there playing music, but what band have you been listening to?
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That s what you re gonna sound like.
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So it s really, I mean, of course, I m speaking from zero experience, but I ve heard, it takes years, of course, to find your own voice.
1
SPEAKER_01
Stand-ups that, when they first go up, they re doing some sort of impersonation of so-and-so, and so-and-so, and then you gotta pop this audience that s paying, and you re gonna get run over by the next person who s coming up, and it s hard to follow the last person who went up before you.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I mean, that is a really hard way to, it s a very,
1
SPEAKER_01
It s quite a gauntlet to be in to find your voice comedically.
1
SPEAKER_00
But don t you have that same kind of thing with sketch where you still have to find your own voice with, uh, like all the impressions you do, they re just terrible.
1
SPEAKER_00
You know, there, there are different spins on different people.
1
SPEAKER_00
They re not like perfect impressions, right?
1
SPEAKER_00
So that s the, I mean, that s similar kind of challenging journey as standup.
1
SPEAKER_00
You re just saying they re kind of distinct and you fell into this one and you fell in love with it, which is like what mad TV kind of opened you up to.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
As a kid, I literally wanted to be an actor.
1
SPEAKER_01
I always wanted to be an actor from a very young age, as far back as I can remember.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I was the class clown and wanted to do comedy stuff and comedic acting.
1
SPEAKER_00
So comedic acting.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Early on, my influences were a very predictable list of guys from SCTV, early Saturday Night Live, Monty Python.
1
SPEAKER_01
All of those performers really influenced me.
1
SPEAKER_01
It was later that I saw
1
SPEAKER_01
people like Kevin Kline, who s an incredible actor.
1
SPEAKER_01
I vividly remember being like 12, 13, seeing him get an Academy Award for Fish Called Wanda, and it blew my mind, because I was like, he was hilarious.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, it was one of my favorite movies back then and now.
1
SPEAKER_01
And he won an Academy Award, and at that point, I
1
SPEAKER_01
I started thinking more about acting.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then I was, like I said, really fortunate to fall in with, I mean, I always wanted to do it and I was trying to hustle this and that when I was a kid.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then I ended up getting represented and then I ended up on a teen show.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was on, I basically, the easiest way to pitch it is it s like a Canadian, my so-called life with these kids and their lives and stuff.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I did that for like five years and
1
SPEAKER_01
I really love acting.
1
SPEAKER_01
I really truly love acting.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I don t, I m not someone who wants people to know my opinion.
1
SPEAKER_01
So that s another thing about stand up.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, I love the illusion of what I get to do in, in entertainment and podcasting is great for that.
1
SPEAKER_01
But to stand up there and
1
SPEAKER_01
For, I don t know, just for me, it s like, it would have to all be fantasy.
1
SPEAKER_01
And yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
So Nietzsche said that every profound spirit needs a mask.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like you said, you don t like to talk about, in your comedy, you don t like to talk about stuff that s personal to you.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
What is that?
1
SPEAKER_00
If you were to psychoanalyze yourself.
1
SPEAKER_00
Do you think it s just not something you find funny or are you running from something?
1
SPEAKER_00
And it s not your fault, Will.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s not your fault, Will.
1
SPEAKER_00
Speaking of another really great comedic actor who s also a serious actor, Robert Williams.
1
SPEAKER_01
one of the best serious actors.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I, and you know, one of the funniest people of all time, but as great, as incredible as he was as a funny man, as a standup and a performer, I almost like his serious stuff better.
1
SPEAKER_00
Can I ask you a question about that?
1
SPEAKER_00
What do you make of the, that he committed suicide?
1
SPEAKER_01
I think it s, I mean, it s super depressing.
1
SPEAKER_01
I ve referred to him as like the Jesus Christ of depression.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s almost like he died for others  depression, you know what I mean?
1
SPEAKER_01
You d look at someone like that and go, wait a minute, you re a rock star.
1
SPEAKER_01
You could just check out if you re not liking your life.
1
SPEAKER_01
And of course, something like suicide begs that you look a little deeper and realize how tortured the human mind can make someone.
1
SPEAKER_00
Is there some aspect, we re in LA, is there some aspect of celebrity that s isolating that can make you feel really lonely?
1
SPEAKER_01
Not me, I don t feel, no, not really.
1
SPEAKER_00
You feel the love?
1
SPEAKER_01
No, I just feel like I m not, I mean, it s like, I don t know, I ve always kind of had a small group of friends and those people don t, you know, it s like I ve known the same people for years and years.
1
SPEAKER_00
You never really felt the celebrity, really?
1
SPEAKER_01
Nah, in LA it s hard to, it s hard for people, nobody cares, they see you and then the next minute they see so and so.
1
SPEAKER_01
So it s like, you know, I m the guy from that,
1
SPEAKER_01
Mike and Molly, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
Nope.
1
SPEAKER_01
Nope.
1
SPEAKER_01
Close.
1
SPEAKER_01
King of... You shave your head?
1
SPEAKER_01
You go bald?
1
SPEAKER_01
Are you King and Queens?
1
SPEAKER_01
Nope.
1
SPEAKER_01
Not me.
1
SPEAKER_01
So close.
1
SPEAKER_01
Wow, shit.
1
SPEAKER_01
You used to be the mountain on Game of Thrones.
1
SPEAKER_01
You look like shit.
1
SPEAKER_01
What happened?
1
SPEAKER_01
Just eating fried dough?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
That s what s up.
1
SPEAKER_01
Can t lift any weights anymore.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m at the gym doing like 15 pounds of shoulder press.
1
SPEAKER_01
And people coming up to me,
1
SPEAKER_00
You used to be a dragon killer, dude.
1
SPEAKER_00
Half the man I used to be.
1
SPEAKER_00
Have there been low points in your life?
1
SPEAKER_00
Sorry to go there, but... No.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, hey.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, everybody has a low point in life.
1
SPEAKER_00
Do you suffer from like depression, any of those kinds of things?
1
SPEAKER_01
You know what, I do, I do.
1
SPEAKER_01
I have a bunch of stuff.
1
SPEAKER_00
How do you deal with it?
1
SPEAKER_00
You said friends, the friends and the... They don t do anything for me in that sense.
1
SPEAKER_01
I have an incredible fiance who, that s nice to have somebody constant that you love very much and see as the best person and all that good stuff.
1
SPEAKER_01
Hopefully vice versa.
1
SPEAKER_00
Uh, and then, uh, well, on your recent Instagram, she said that she loves you.
1
SPEAKER_00
So wow.
1
SPEAKER_01
At least allegedly on.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
Allegedly that might all be for, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
How much money did you pay her to say that?
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t, I don t have any.
1
SPEAKER_01
Cause I m not a standup.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was like, I can do, you got Venmo.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
I got, I only have like $123.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Some doge coin.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Some doge.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
You got some doge.
1
SPEAKER_01
I got some of those monkey NFTs.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, before I forget.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
Hold on a second.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh no.
1
SPEAKER_01
Put a doodsy sticker on your microphone if that s okay.
1
SPEAKER_01
Here, oh yeah, now these are tricky, because I have the thumbs of a, I have like Italian sausage thumbs.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, just wait.
1
SPEAKER_01
This will take another.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh man.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, ooh, this is embarrassing.
1
SPEAKER_00
Are you good under pressure?
1
SPEAKER_00
Because I have anxiety.
1
SPEAKER_00
I have performance anxiety.
1
SPEAKER_01
Do you have anxiety?
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
You have anxiety, period?
1
SPEAKER_00
Period.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
I like I don t like it when I if I have to pee and then everyone s waiting in the urinals Yeah, yeah, I like it.
1
SPEAKER_01
You know what ll help you in that situation.
1
SPEAKER_01
What s that taking a shit?
1
SPEAKER_01
Because whenever you take a shit you always pee a little it s hard to take a shit while you re standing at a urinal But not in my world.
1
SPEAKER_01
Okay, just got to keep yourself full of things that make you shit.
1
SPEAKER_00
Oh good.
1
SPEAKER_01
You ever heard of a banana.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh
1
SPEAKER_01
I did recently, somebody told me about it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Not the showbiz term, I m talking about the food.
1
SPEAKER_01
There you go.
1
SPEAKER_00
There we go.
1
SPEAKER_01
Which way is up?
1
SPEAKER_01
It s this way, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
It s like a D. No, spin it.
1
SPEAKER_01
There you go.
1
SPEAKER_00
All right.
1
SPEAKER_01
So sexy.
1
SPEAKER_01
You re like a brand.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s very important to brand yourself.
1
SPEAKER_01
These colors.
1
SPEAKER_01
Are you selling shoes?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I got some custom kicks coming out.
1
SPEAKER_01
The dudesy, uh, no.
1
SPEAKER_01
Actually, that would be a good idea.
1
SPEAKER_01
You could probably sell a pair or two of those.
1
SPEAKER_01
Speaking of anxiety, I really am only focused on this right now, Alex.
1
SPEAKER_01
I apologize.
1
SPEAKER_01
Just shit your pants.
1
SPEAKER_01
It ll make you be easier.
1
SPEAKER_01
Get on with it.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, this thing has been dog-eared in my pocket for a while.
1
SPEAKER_00
I swear, this never happens to me.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m sorry, babe.
1
SPEAKER_01
People don t thumb at a sticker for an hour while they re doing the podcast?
1
SPEAKER_00
No, this is just an excuse you make when you re with somebody and you re underperforming.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, here s the thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
As you ask me questions that I don t want to answer, I ll just go to this.
1
SPEAKER_00
Go to the sticker.
1
SPEAKER_00
So if this ends up working, then I won t have it as a product.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s funny how you started doing that when we re talking about depression.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s weird.
1
SPEAKER_00
That is weird.
1
SPEAKER_00
Tell me how that makes you feel.
1
SPEAKER_01
Here we are.
1
SPEAKER_01
We got it.
1
SPEAKER_00
For the listener, he succeeded after 10 minutes.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
No, I do have some of that stuff.
1
SPEAKER_01
Bobby Lee had encouraged me on Wax, as I like to say, to talk about it on podcasts, to talk about depression, because it could help people.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I said, no.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s true.
1
SPEAKER_01
I do have some.
1
SPEAKER_01
There s some history in the family.
1
SPEAKER_01
How do you overcome it?
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, I used to not believe in medication at all.
1
SPEAKER_01
I used to think that that was for someone else who s been diagnosed with some of the rougher stuff.
1
SPEAKER_01
But as I got older, then some of the stuff happens and, you know, you have to, and by stuff I mean, you know, mental stuff.
1
SPEAKER_01
And yeah, so I went and I just, I believe that the stigma needs to be removed completely.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so I ve, I, you know, I do therapy, I do talk therapy, I m on a little bit of stuff, which, which, let me tell you, when I first started it,
1
SPEAKER_01
I was, you know, someone I m close to was like my manager, and she goes, this is too much, but she was like, you don t have to white knuckle it through life, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
Because I was literally just like everything became, you know, really hard to do at a level that I wanted to do it at, even just getting through your day, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
And when I first got some of the
1
SPEAKER_01
The meds that I m on, it felt like doors and windows were opening literally in my brain.
1
SPEAKER_01
I took a three hour nap the first day.
1
SPEAKER_01
And you shouldn t even feel this stuff the first day.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think my brain was like, it was like a sponge.
1
SPEAKER_01
It wanted to, I needed some relief.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I m not a nap guy.
1
SPEAKER_01
I can sleep three hours and I ll be fine.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I took a long nap and then it started to help.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, isn t that weird how,
1
SPEAKER_00
a little bit of chemistry in your head can just make the whole world appear so much more beautiful.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, after all, there s a lot going on in your brain that can be changed by your lifestyle, but also so many physical things, like a little bit of meds, or in Bobby s case, thumbing around on some dumb farming app.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, Bobby s gone through a few rough periods with drugs and alcohol and all that kind of stuff, and just everything else involved.
1
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that s the beautiful rollercoaster of who he is, and a lot of great comedians seem to be that way.
1
SPEAKER_00
So I wonder what the connection there is.
1
SPEAKER_00
You think some level of crazy is required for comedy?
1
SPEAKER_00
Like at some point, on a scale of one to 10, how much crazy do you have?
1
SPEAKER_01
in some ways, a 10, and in other ways that I think
1
SPEAKER_01
In other ways, sort of functionally, I m like a two or a three, because I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m from Canada, and I try to just keep things very even keeled.
1
SPEAKER_01
My parents are Italian.
1
SPEAKER_01
They re from Italy, and they grew up during World War II, and they re very simple outlook on things.
1
SPEAKER_01
They re complex, incredible, classy people who are
1
SPEAKER_01
Very simple when it comes to a lot of stuff.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think just being a sort of at heart kind of a timid Canadian, coming out here years ago as a kid, it was all I could do to just keep everything super normal.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then I sort of was able to settle into that as a lifestyle.
1
SPEAKER_00
But you love the idea of being an actor.
1
SPEAKER_00
You mentioned John Candy.
1
SPEAKER_00
Planes and Automobiles, yeah.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s one of my favorite movies, besides one of yours.
1
SPEAKER_00
What do you think makes that movie work?
1
SPEAKER_00
And when you talk about enjoying that movie, do you enjoy just the raw comedy, or do you enjoy the friendship and the love that s there, even though, on the surface, it doesn t make any sense that there should be a friendship there?
1
SPEAKER_01
I mean, that s such an important element to that film.
1
SPEAKER_01
But, you know, as a kid, I just loved the comedy.
1
SPEAKER_01
And then it s been a nostalgic favorite of mine.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, it s my favorite movie.
1
SPEAKER_01
But it s also, it s just legit my favorite movie because as you get older and you start watching it, you realize it s what, it s what John Hughes is the filmmaker and what John Candy particularly, and, but also Steve Martin are doing in the film that makes it such a work of art, which is,
1
SPEAKER_01
Loneliness is there in every moment of that film.
1
SPEAKER_01
And John Candy is, he embodies Del Griffith, his character in the film.
1
SPEAKER_01
Del Griffith is a lonely guy.
1
SPEAKER_01
And John Candy, but Del Griffith is also a very friendly guy and a shower curtain ring salesman and knows everybody in the Midwest and runs around to motels and has meaningful conversations with the guy.
1
SPEAKER_01
Evening Gus, you know, whoever he s talking to.
1
SPEAKER_01
Um, uh, but there s loneliness there all the time.
1
SPEAKER_01
And, uh, you know, this is a character that these, the film is filled with loneliness and it s not until, you know, the second last scene when he s at the train station, you know, Dell, what are you doing here?
1
SPEAKER_01
You thought, I thought you were going home.
1
SPEAKER_01
What are you doing here?
1
SPEAKER_01
Um, that s a very good Neil, Neil page from the movie.
1
SPEAKER_01
Thank you.
1
SPEAKER_01
Uh, that s when you realize how lonely he is.
2
SPEAKER_00
Cheers.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s when you realize how lonely he is.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think that s the element from the film that...
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, look, nowadays, I feel like, and I ve been saying this for a long time, but John Candy would have won an Academy Award, hands down, for that film.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s just they didn t do that with comedies back then.
2
SPEAKER_00
Until the year after that movie came out with Fish Called Wanda.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, and then it s, I mean, still, comedies don t get respected enough.
2
SPEAKER_02
Robin Williams, I guess he got an Oscar for Good Will Hunting.
2
SPEAKER_02
Jim Carrey, did he ever get an Oscar?
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know, I don t believe so.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, they don t get, you don t, but that s not even, if you did, you wouldn t be for comedies.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s just, I mean, there s some things that are,
2
SPEAKER_02
Plain Strange and Autumn, would you even put that as a, I guess it s a comedy.
2
SPEAKER_02
But there is a loneliness and depth that permeates the whole movie that ultimately, and it s a happy ending, which is hard to kinda.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s a happy ending only because in the last moment of the movie, John Candy puts on a brave face.
2
SPEAKER_00
even when he s got no one, and he s there seeing Neil Page s entire family on Thanksgiving, and he forces a smile, which is the last, literally the last frame of the movie.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I ve said before, if you re not reduced to just a sobbing pile of meat at the end of the movie, then you are not human.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s,
2
SPEAKER_00
It is a happy ending.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s a happy ending, even though it s a sad character.
2
SPEAKER_02
So much loneliness in the world.
2
SPEAKER_02
I was just in Vegas.
2
SPEAKER_02
I went to a diner at like 4 a.m., 5 a.m., and there s a waitress that was empty.
2
SPEAKER_02
As a waitress, that was the sweetest, kindest human being.
2
SPEAKER_02
Kept calling me sweetheart and all that kind of stuff.
2
SPEAKER_02
Hon.
2
SPEAKER_02
And then after I ate, she sat down and just talked to me a little bit, because there was nobody there, and it was just so much sadness in her eyes.
2
SPEAKER_02
I don t know, but it s also so much love, like that sweetheart.
2
SPEAKER_02
I mean, it reminded me kind of of the John Candy performance, because at first, because I was like,
2
SPEAKER_02
reading a pretty dark book about Hitler.
2
SPEAKER_02
So I was a little bit frustrated that she kept talking to me, because it was like, it was almost like, the same way that John Kennedy is, it s annoying a little bit, right?
2
SPEAKER_02
But then very quickly I opened up to like, well, there s a kind human being, and there s like that human connection superseded everything else.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I don t know, it was just beautiful.
2
SPEAKER_02
And I think John Kennedy captures that
2
SPEAKER_02
really well, which is like the connection with other human beings, sometimes we pull away from that because we have a busy life full of stuff to do, as Steve Martin s character kind of characterized, he s like a marketing exec or something like that.
2
SPEAKER_02
But if you just pause and notice others, you can really discover beautiful people.
2
SPEAKER_00
Totally, totally.
2
SPEAKER_00
Everyone s got their story.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you know, Candy is a person, I ve never met the man, but he s the kind of guy that, you know, he could just walk up to, back in the day I would imagine he could walk up to just about any house, at least in Canada, knock on the door and you d invite him in for dinner.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
2
SPEAKER_00
So
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, as you re talking about putting a book down and talking to someone for a while, even though you d really like to read your book, it s that sort of thing that Candy s character in the movie sort of does that, like Johnny Appleseed.
2
SPEAKER_00
You realize he s just going around making people smile.
2
SPEAKER_00
And Neil Page is hanging with this guy, so frustrated.
2
SPEAKER_00
He s so exhausting in his big underwear in the sink at the hotel and everything.
2
SPEAKER_00
And by the end of it, he loves this guy.
2
SPEAKER_00
So it s a good and a bad thing that you didn t take that waitress with you on a trip, maybe road trip up to Reno.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, she s actually shopping right now.
2
SPEAKER_02
We ve been having sex multiple times a day ever since.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, that s nice.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s lovely.
2
SPEAKER_02
How cute.
2
SPEAKER_02
I m sure she s married and happily and has many grandchildren.
2
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_02
And plus that movie s on Thanksgiving, I think, right?
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, that s right.
2
SPEAKER_02
Thanksgiving, so like Thanksgiving just embodies that.
2
SPEAKER_02
Forget about the busyness and whatever the career you re chasing in life and just take a pause and appreciate the people you love.
2
SPEAKER_00
Just be with your family, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Or the people, whatever your family looks like.
2
SPEAKER_02
Friends, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
You have some weird friends, unorthodox friends.
2
SPEAKER_02
So, at least in the public sphere.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
From Bobby Lee, Brian Cowan, all those kinds of folks from the Mad TV days, I m sure there s others.
2
SPEAKER_02
What does it mean to be a good friend?
2
SPEAKER_00
Here in LA?
2
SPEAKER_00
Or just in general?
2
SPEAKER_00
In the world.
2
SPEAKER_00
In the world.
2
SPEAKER_00
Will Sasso, world friend.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think it is different here.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think it is.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think there s a little bit of a career kind of negotiation shuffling around, that kind of stuff.
2
SPEAKER_02
Why is it different?
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, I just mean, I mean, I mean that it s just kind of hard here to, to make time for everybody.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s so, there s, it s always been a city to me that is like, we ll keep you so busy.
2
SPEAKER_00
And every time I go home to Vancouver, after a few days, I start to get a little stir crazy.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think that being here in, in LA,
2
SPEAKER_00
I go to sleep with a hundred things that I still have to do.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you re never out of stuff to do.
2
SPEAKER_00
And if you, you know, when you ask about, are you nuts or whatever, if you re crazy, I mean, look, all the weirdest people from every high school in the United States is like, oh, I m going to make it in LA, you know.
2
SPEAKER_00
Everyone just comes here, and just another freak in the freak kingdom, as they say at the end of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.
2
SPEAKER_00
That was a very good Robin Williams impersonation.
2
SPEAKER_00
That was my Robin Williams as Johnny Depp as Hunter S. Thompson.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s not your fault, Will.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s pretty good.
2
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
2
SPEAKER_02
Could have been you, Fear and Loathing.
2
SPEAKER_00
In Fear and Loathing?
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, it d be interesting.
2
SPEAKER_00
I would have liked to play his attorney, the role that Benicio del Toro gained weight for.
2
SPEAKER_00
That would have been cool.
2
SPEAKER_00
He s just saying, what s up over the line?
2
SPEAKER_00
Chewing his face off, I could have done that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, no, I think that it s... Backdoor beauty.
2
SPEAKER_01
That guy s full of good lines.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, they flip you for real.
2
SPEAKER_00
Good actor.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, fantastic actor.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think what it takes to be a good friend is just presence, just being there.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, that s all anyone needs, to be heard, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
In LA, it is interesting.
2
SPEAKER_00
I haven t seen people that I love in years, some people.
2
SPEAKER_00
Just busy.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, just busy.
2
SPEAKER_02
Can you still have a depth of connection, even though,
2
SPEAKER_02
One of the reasons I really enjoy doing a podcast, you get to sit down with actual friends of yours and spend prolonged periods of time together that you don t otherwise.
2
SPEAKER_02
I ve spoken on this podcast to people really close to me, and it s like you ve never had a conversation without microphones like you do with microphones.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s weird.
2
SPEAKER_02
But there s some aspect about LA that a lot of the, especially friends of yours, comedians and so on, they ll do podcasts and stuff.
2
SPEAKER_02
And there s, I don t know, there s an intimacy to that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, there is and there isn t.
2
SPEAKER_00
The ones that I do, I mean, I just did Bobby Lee and Andrew Santino s- Funny enough called Bad Friends.
2
SPEAKER_00
Bad Friends.
2
SPEAKER_00
And afterwards, and my good pal Chad Colchin, with whom I do Doodzie, was with me.
2
SPEAKER_00
Sneakers are coming soon.
2
SPEAKER_00
sneakers are coming soon, you get your Will foot and your Chad foot, comes in a size 15 and a nine and a half.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I remember afterwards we were talking, it was just basically me, Chad and Santino were talking and Bobby was over there, you know, on his phone.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then I was like, I mean, we didn t spend any time talking about anything.
2
SPEAKER_00
It feels like one of those hours that goes by and you realize, I ve just been goofing around with these guys.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s what life is about, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
It s fine.
2
SPEAKER_00
A little bit.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s great.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then I m like, all right, Bobby.
2
SPEAKER_00
Hey, Bob, I ll see you later.
2
SPEAKER_00
And he s like.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like this.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m like, all right, man.
2
SPEAKER_00
Hey, love you, bro.
2
SPEAKER_00
See you later.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
He s a guy, do you ever just, I just send text messages over there to him that never come back.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then he thinks that I m angry with him because it s been, you know, it ll go two, three years without him getting back to me.
2
SPEAKER_00
and then just out of nowhere, hey fuckface, and... Who says hey fuckface?
2
SPEAKER_02
He does or you do?
2
SPEAKER_00
Or are you both back to each other?
2
SPEAKER_00
No, I gotta be very careful with Bobby.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I gotta be very sweet.
2
SPEAKER_00
Dear friend.
2
SPEAKER_00
Dear friend, hello.
2
SPEAKER_00
How are you doing?
2
SPEAKER_00
How are you?
2
SPEAKER_00
I know I checked in with you not but three months ago, and then every once in a while he ll go, hey fuckface.
2
SPEAKER_02
I tend to hide from the world, and I can be pretty shitty with friends.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah?
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
I can empathize with Bobby.
2
SPEAKER_02
It might be a Skyrim thing.
2
SPEAKER_02
It might be like hiding in a world, in a digital world with fake NPCs.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, there s that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I have a buddy who said something really smart a while ago.
2
SPEAKER_00
We ended up working together on this TV show thing, and I reached out to him to see if he wanted to do it with us.
2
SPEAKER_00
And he did, and he goes—this is a great guy, such a funny writer—he goes, I may not be in touch all the time, but I know who my friends are.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s like, in our business—and this is a fellow who moved
2
SPEAKER_00
who s from Ontario, Canada, moved back there.
2
SPEAKER_00
He s on the farm with his wife and kids and he does not care.
2
SPEAKER_00
He s never been a Hollywood guy.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s tough to get ahold of him.
2
SPEAKER_00
But when you do, you know, he s still the same sweet old guy.
2
SPEAKER_00
He s doing his thing though.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, yeah, some of my closest friends, even if we don t talk for a few months, we re right back at it if we do.
2
SPEAKER_02
And then if shit goes, if something really traumatic happens or difficult stuff or any of that kind of stuff, I m always there.
2
SPEAKER_02
So for important stuff, for important highs and important lows, you re there.
2
SPEAKER_02
And then you pick right back up, especially if you have those years of experiences together.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s interesting.
2
SPEAKER_02
Totally.
2
SPEAKER_02
So you ve done a couple of podcasts.
2
SPEAKER_02
So we ve got to talk about Doodsy a little bit, but first, you did for several years, you did the 10-minute podcast.
2
SPEAKER_02
I mean, everything is hilarious about that podcast, including the fact that it s 10 minutes.
2
SPEAKER_02
I mean, it s ridiculous, it s absurd.
2
SPEAKER_02
The dynamic is hilarious.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s you, Brian Callan, Chris D Elia.
2
SPEAKER_02
I don t know exactly why it works so well, but it worked really well.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think it s because the, yeah, you were having fun probably.
2
SPEAKER_02
I mean, that s what really came through, that it was friends just talking shit and the tension, the beautiful tension and the absurdity that came out.
2
SPEAKER_02
What was the story of making that podcast?
2
SPEAKER_02
How did that came to be?
2
SPEAKER_02
Why do you think it was as good as it was?
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know, I feel like that podcast was like, it was who we kind of are, but on steroids or something, like, you know, each person, you know, Brian s gonna be like extra manly and... Can you get any more manly than he already is?
2
SPEAKER_00
No, yeah, no, he reaches though.
2
SPEAKER_00
And yeah, we just kind of, I feel like as goofballs, we knew each other s line.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, here s the line you don t cross.
2
SPEAKER_00
I feel like those guys don t really have one, but at least they knew mine.
2
SPEAKER_00
And yeah, we were able to just goof around.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I did it with them for three years.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then Chad, who I m doing dudesy with, and my pal Tommy Blacha, who s another writer-producer like Chad, they came on.
2
SPEAKER_00
And yeah, all told, I did like seven years for that thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
Six, five, six, seven.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t remember.
2
SPEAKER_02
Do you think it ever comes back in some small form as a 20-minute podcast or something like that?
2
SPEAKER_02
I mean, is there, because it s one of the most requested.
2
SPEAKER_02
I mean, you have a huge fan base.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m 47 years old.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I am of the generation that had a cell phone, has had a cell phone half the time and didn t for the formative years of my life into my early 20s.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then finally, I got a cell phone, I guess I was like 19 or something, like literally just because I m moving to LA.
2
SPEAKER_00
You got porn in the mail.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes, that s right.
2
SPEAKER_00
It was the hard cover porn.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s the way we liked it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Bound, you know, nice binding on the porn, the leather cover.
2
SPEAKER_00
Next to the Bible, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yep.
2
SPEAKER_00
These are all my, these are my Encyclopedia Britannica.
2
SPEAKER_00
Wow, very impressive.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes, a man came to the house and sold me these.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then down here, these are my, this is my pornography.
2
SPEAKER_00
If you ll follow me through here to the parlor, sir.
2
SPEAKER_01
Passed through the generations from grandfather to father.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
I want to give you something very special to me, Nebuchadnezzar.
2
SPEAKER_01
But yeah,
2
SPEAKER_01
So you grew up in a generation without a cell phone?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s hard for me to connect with people who
2
SPEAKER_00
who hit me up, I look at everything as polling.
2
SPEAKER_00
So if one person hits me up and shares this opinion, but two other people hit me up and share that, I m the worst.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t follow my polls.
2
SPEAKER_00
When people say, oh, that poll means absolutely nothing, so-and-so is gonna win anyway, that s my poll.
2
SPEAKER_00
My poll means nothing.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I do look at the stuff and go, this many people are saying this, that means that that number is saying that.
2
SPEAKER_00
And yet, it s very hard for me to hear what the hell people are saying online.
2
SPEAKER_00
I really, I can t connect to it sometimes personally.
2
SPEAKER_00
So when you say that that s a popular podcast, like, I know that it s popular with the people that have expressed that they love it.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
2
SPEAKER_00
What does that actually represent?
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know what kind of people are the audience.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_00
I know that the people that listen to the 10 Minute Podcast, and if you did, thank you, and we re friends.
2
SPEAKER_00
I know that it was a special thing, because it was like, yeah, just doing this out of my house, and we just built it up out of nowhere, and we re just kind of clowning around.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s an odd thing.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think I speak for the two people that have reached out to you that said you should do it, or whatever, three people, the poll, that you should bring it back at some point.
2
SPEAKER_02
That would be beautiful.
2
SPEAKER_02
What s a good story of a famous band that came back and was successful?
2
SPEAKER_02
Nirvana?
2
SPEAKER_00
No.
2
SPEAKER_00
It wasn t Nirvana.
2
SPEAKER_00
Sorry, I get Nirvana mixed up with Aerosmith.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it was Aerosmith.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it was Aerosmith.
2
SPEAKER_00
They had that second ride.
2
SPEAKER_00
Different.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, totally different ending of those two bands.
2
SPEAKER_00
One ended up on American Idol.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, a lot of interesting women involved in that one, too.
2
SPEAKER_02
All right.
2
SPEAKER_02
How did Doodzy come to be?
2
SPEAKER_02
Doodzy?
2
SPEAKER_02
And what the hell is Doodzy?
2
SPEAKER_00
Doodzy is the first podcast, and this is exciting that you ve asked me to come here today, because to hear what you would have to say about it or what you would ask about it, it is the first podcast that is run completely by and essentially
2
SPEAKER_00
I like to say curated by an AI.
2
SPEAKER_00
We were approached by a company that had this proprietary AI that wants to develop the podcast into the future and figure out exactly what it takes to make the best podcast ever.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it was all we
2
SPEAKER_00
All we knew from the top and what they really wanted was two people who were actually friends and could be meaningful in the podcast space based on whatever information they had.
2
SPEAKER_02
Is the company CIA and are they testing technology to control the populace through chatbots?
2
SPEAKER_00
I m sorry, I m not at liberty to share that information.
2
SPEAKER_02
You are.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, who gave you the suit?
2
SPEAKER_02
Where did you get the suit?
2
SPEAKER_00
Where did you get the suit, Will?
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, well, the C.I.A.
2
SPEAKER_00
stands for something different in here.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, you know, it doesn t mean like Central Intelligence Agency and probably it s different.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s a Canadian, international apparel.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, the Canadian International Apparel Company hit us up, Chad and I.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, Chad s a super weirdo.
2
SPEAKER_00
You would get a kick out of him, I know.
2
SPEAKER_00
You guys, you strike me as very similar in some ways.
2
SPEAKER_02
I ll take that as a compliment.
2
SPEAKER_00
It is, and it is.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it is.
2
SPEAKER_00
If I was friends with you for as long as I ve been with Chad, perhaps I d have some horrible shit to say about you.
2
SPEAKER_00
But the good parts, you remind me of him.
2
SPEAKER_00
And we were approached by this company that said, we have this AI, and
3
SPEAKER_01
we would like to set it loose on you.
3
SPEAKER_01
And essentially, we had to hand over some information that would allow the AI to access our email and look at our search histories, purchase histories, things like this, and really dig into- Pornhub included?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
I had to hand over all my leather-bound 1970s pornography.
3
SPEAKER_01
And essentially, it curates a podcast for us every week, doing dumb things like, you know, it says, hey, Will, you know, you do some shitty Hulk Hogan impersonation.
3
SPEAKER_01
Podcasts about news are very popular.
3
SPEAKER_01
This is infomania.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know what I mean?
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, let me tell you something about that Marjorie Taylor Greene, dude.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then he s going on doing some new stuff.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it basically just spits out all these things that it wants us to do, normally four segments an episode.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that s pretty much it.
3
SPEAKER_00
It just tells us what to do.
3
SPEAKER_00
It generates the premise.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, you ve spoken a bit here and there.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like I said, I m a huge fan.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t even remember where, but you talked about that you enjoy doozy because you feel almost like liberated to, because you re operating within the constraints of the premise it generates.
3
SPEAKER_00
So you re almost not,
3
SPEAKER_00
You re free to riff, essentially.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
You don t need to do the job of like...
3
SPEAKER_00
coming up with the weird, you can just, the weird is given to you, and then you just run with it.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s a good way to say it, because we re already weird, Chad and I. Chad can talk for days about all sorts of stuff.
3
SPEAKER_01
He s particularly interested in AI lately and its effect on art.
3
SPEAKER_01
He is a writer, books, movies, and TV shows.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I m primarily, you know, acting and trying to come up with stuff.
3
SPEAKER_01
Stuff I write with Chad s pretty good.
3
SPEAKER_01
The rest of it hasn t seen much success.
3
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, nor is the stuff with Chad, for that matter.
3
SPEAKER_01
But that s because of me.
3
SPEAKER_01
Sneakers, you never know.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I can t wait for these sneakers.
3
SPEAKER_00
Only in two sizes.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, only in two sizes.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re going to be able to take the tongue.
3
SPEAKER_01
You can t take it out because it s actually stitched in.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s pretty cool stuff.
3
SPEAKER_01
Velcro?
3
SPEAKER_01
Velcro or?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, Velcro.
3
SPEAKER_01
Velcro up the side.
3
SPEAKER_01
We re doing some like brand new Kanye stuff.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, we want things to look like this is what you ll be wearing on Mars when you get there.
3
SPEAKER_00
So cutting it.
3
SPEAKER_00
So Nike s doing a bunch of research for running how to make a super light shoe that you can be efficient in and break all kinds of running records.
3
SPEAKER_00
So you re doing the same kind of stuff.
3
SPEAKER_01
We re doing the same kind of thing for the podcasting space, the best kind of shoes to sit around and talk to your pal in.
3
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, we, so this, yeah, it s bizarre.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it also does some writing.
3
SPEAKER_01
Doodsy does come up with things, but not unlike what we re seeing in AI art now.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s a little bit foggy, it s a little bit weird, but it is improving.
3
SPEAKER_01
It is learning about us and writing stuff when it makes me spit this and that, which will read, you know, I ve prepared these things for you to read.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s impossible not to get a kick out of it, because Chad and I are, first of all, we re blown away that we re doing this.
3
SPEAKER_01
And second of all, some of the stuff is actually very funny.
3
SPEAKER_01
It makes weird names.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t think it understands... It messes up some words and stuff, but that makes it even funnier.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then it sort of...
3
SPEAKER_01
from the beginning started laying on, like, it says astonishing all the time, everything is astonishing.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s Doodzie s favorite word.
3
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, it s basically just a way to frame the podcast, you know what I mean?
3
SPEAKER_01
Because my thing is, I don t wanna do this, I actually have to talk to someone.
3
SPEAKER_00
You seem to feel a burden of the long form conversation.
3
SPEAKER_00
It seems like, is that really hard work for you?
3
SPEAKER_01
No, not at all.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s just that I don t like to bore people.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I feel like if I go on and I like to provide value for who, for what I am.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, your value with regard to this project is obviously warranted.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s obviously— I m waiting for the explanation for what the value is exactly.
3
SPEAKER_01
Two dudes in a suit.
3
SPEAKER_01
No, listen.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, two dudes in a suit.
3
SPEAKER_01
No, but I mean, you ve got your audience, and that s the end of that.
3
SPEAKER_01
People find value in it.
3
SPEAKER_01
For me, I do feel like I m—
3
SPEAKER_01
It is important that I, if I m gonna do something that, you know, is gonna be funny or that I hope is funny, I just kinda wanna get in and out of someone s day and just kinda, I like making, I like making laughy.
3
SPEAKER_01
I want people to, you know, whatever.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s the same thing that anyone else will tell you.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, but in the long form, you feel the anxiety.
3
SPEAKER_00
You did a few funny things and I wonder if I can keep doing the funny thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
Is that why you feel, like why is doozy relieving you of some of the anxiety?
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, in some ways, it gives me anxiety because I don t know what s coming.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that s weird for me because I like to prepare for things.
3
SPEAKER_01
But that s not what podcasting is.
3
SPEAKER_01
Podcasting, you need to just be malleable and say whatever and do whatever.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that s what makes it a real, I mean, look, it s a medium for conversation.
3
SPEAKER_01
And if you re driving along listening to this or anything else,
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, it is that it s the it s the true meaning of the parasocial relationship, because the best podcasts make you feel like you re sitting around rapping.
3
SPEAKER_01
We re just having a conversation.
3
SPEAKER_01
You could even be sitting there agreeing or talking out loud to yourself if you want to be sitting in silence.
3
SPEAKER_01
Or you could just be sitting in silence in your fancy podcasting shoes.
3
SPEAKER_01
Podcasting audience shoes is very different built than those shoes.
3
SPEAKER_00
Would they be also called doozy the shoes?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, they ll be doozy shoes.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s very creative.
3
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, one thing the AI isn t good at yet is branding.
3
SPEAKER_01
Everything is just doodsy, this and that.
3
SPEAKER_01
I would argue that s pretty good branding.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_01
Well, doodsy allows me to just, it forces me to sit down with Chad and goof around for an hour or an hour plus.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it provides the parameters that I a lot of times ignore because I think that podcasting is just two dudes shitting around or three or four.
3
SPEAKER_01
It sits me down and gives me a premise to work with.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then you just riff with it.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s fun.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s been a hoot.
3
SPEAKER_00
So from the acting perspective, a lot of people like Daniel Day-Lewis will see acting just like as you described, which is you have your roles, you embrace those roles, and then you disappear.
3
SPEAKER_00
You don t do podcasts, you don t do any of that kind of stuff.
3
SPEAKER_00
Your art is your art.
3
SPEAKER_00
So is that part of you feels that way?
3
SPEAKER_01
I think so.
3
SPEAKER_00
Is that the actor side of you?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Anytime I get to do something that I don t get a chance to do much of or something that people haven t seen me do much of or that I ve done on some scale that hasn t been very wide and not a lot of people have seen it, that s the stuff that I get really excited about.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t know why I m
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t know why necessarily, I haven t answered that question yet in my life, like what it is about being an actor that I love so much because it s not like I don t like to, it s not like I m trying to get away from myself and play other characters and stuff and not be myself.
3
SPEAKER_01
But it is, it has always been fun to just be other people and escape.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, is there some aspect to the impressions where you become that person?
3
SPEAKER_00
Is that, like, what s that like to, I suppose acting is a full-on version of that, you really, at its best, become the character.
3
SPEAKER_00
Is there some fun in that?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, absolutely.
3
SPEAKER_01
If you can play a character for long enough and then jump out of it,
3
SPEAKER_01
That s a lot of fun.
3
SPEAKER_01
I did this movie like four or five years ago called The Inside Game about the NBA gambling scandal.
3
SPEAKER_01
There s a Netflix documentary about it right now.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that character, I played
3
SPEAKER_01
Jimmy Batista, Baba the Sheep, who s, you know, this guy who was this bookie and rah, rah, rah, and it s a very, he s, there s a lot going on with him.
3
SPEAKER_01
He s, you know, he s running numbers with the mob and stuff, and there s a lot of money changing hands.
3
SPEAKER_01
That character was so, I got to be, get so deep into that character that coming out of it was a little odd.
3
SPEAKER_01
Or as weird as this sounds, the Three Stooges was hard for me to, I found that I had,
3
SPEAKER_01
uh, some of Curly s mannerisms, just automatically, I could not stop them.
3
SPEAKER_01
When people, when I would talk to people, they would come, I wasn t, I m not doing it on purpose, I don t want to do that, like, I m ready to shed it, because I ve been
3
SPEAKER_01
working on it for months and months at that point as far as getting the thing down and then you then you got to shoot and Then for me, it s always I always want to change the stuff I did the day before I m like that where I m like I could have done it better and this and that and That stayed with you that character stay with you a little totally.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I just feel like with actors I
3
SPEAKER_00
sometimes when you listen to interviews, they ve spent so much time sort of living inside other characters that they almost don t have a depth of personality themselves, like a depth, like I don t mean that as a negative thing, it s just like it feels like the art form at its best is pretending to be other people.
3
SPEAKER_00
And even pretending sounds negative, but like bringing certain characters to life.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s the art form, embodying.
3
SPEAKER_01
A weird thing happened while we were doing Stooges because you ve got a very heavy blueprint.
3
SPEAKER_01
We re following this very clear blueprint that the Stooges left for everybody.
3
SPEAKER_01
For Stooge fans and people enjoying the movie, it s got to be this.
3
SPEAKER_01
You take your toolbox that you re used to bring into a comedy movie, you leave it behind.
3
SPEAKER_01
The only tools I m bringing are the ones that he used.
3
SPEAKER_01
And a weird thing started happening where I would, I always saw the whole thing happening with the real Stooges in black and white.
3
SPEAKER_01
So if we re about to shoot a scene, I would just, you know, think about, I mean, aside from all the other preparation, you know, you know everything and what you re supposed to do.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I ve been watching so much of it.
3
SPEAKER_01
And the three of us are, we re pretty much left to come up with a lot of the striking combinations and all this stuff, which is all real smack and all this crap.
3
SPEAKER_01
and the stuff that we were doing that was very stoogey, you re preparing all that stuff.
3
SPEAKER_01
But something else was happening before you jump into a scene and the unknown of now we re shooting it and here are these parameters within to shoot this scene, I could still see it as them doing it.
3
SPEAKER_01
So much so that when I saw the movie at the premiere, I was like, who s this big fuck doing?
3
SPEAKER_01
Because I m not curly to me.
3
SPEAKER_01
Curly is curly.
3
SPEAKER_00
So you re seeing yourself in black and white almost.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was seeing him.
3
SPEAKER_00
Him?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I was only seeing him.
3
SPEAKER_00
So channeling in some fundamental way.
3
SPEAKER_01
In some weird way you re channeling him because you ve seen so much of it.
3
SPEAKER_01
The only thing you know about Jerome Lester Horwitz is
3
SPEAKER_01
Curly, I m not saying he was exhumed or something or spirit when he made some weird, you know, crystal mommy shit like that.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m saying that this because you know so much of it because of the heavy blueprint that they left with you, you are
3
SPEAKER_01
you re channeling what that person does.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I was seeing entire scenes, you know, before you do them, the way he would do it.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then you want a couple takes to make sure that you re doing it right.
3
SPEAKER_01
But that one was hard to let go of.
3
SPEAKER_01
Some of them are.
3
SPEAKER_00
Do you think Larry David, who was also in there, dressed as a nun, also had trouble letting go of that?
3
SPEAKER_00
We mentioned clothes make the man.
3
SPEAKER_00
Do you think that worked for him in that case?
3
SPEAKER_01
Man, you know, he— It wasn t like working with the guy.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, come on.
3
SPEAKER_01
He s the greatest.
3
SPEAKER_01
And he s a big Stooge—he s a Stooge fan.
3
SPEAKER_01
And him and Pete Farrelly are good friends.
3
SPEAKER_01
But then Larry David has to show up and hang out with us for a couple weeks.
3
SPEAKER_01
He s like, I didn t realize it was gonna take this long, you know?
3
SPEAKER_01
But, ah, shit, I gotta be out here in Atlanta.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s boiling hot.
3
SPEAKER_01
But at one point there was this line where he kept doing a—he would just spit a different line every time he was like getting hit in the head with something, and he s laying there on the ground, and he goes—he like comes to, and he says—at one point he goes,
3
SPEAKER_01
Miami audiences are the best audiences in the world, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
Because he s loopy.
3
SPEAKER_01
Now, he s playing a nun at the orphanage where the Three Stooges grew up.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I m super intimidated by Larry David, he s a genius and stuff.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I walk up to him and I go, so what is he, like a Borscht Belt Florida comedian who
3
SPEAKER_01
is on the lam and so he s dressing as a woman he ends up at an orphanage like what s going on there and he just and he looks at me just goes
3
SPEAKER_01
I m like, ah, he s got some actor motivation.
3
SPEAKER_01
Of course he looks, it s Larry David in A Nun s Habit, which is hilarious.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s such a Pete Farrelly casting thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
But he s doing this whole, what a warm audience.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m like, oh, he s this Catskill comedian who s been living in Boca Raton.
3
SPEAKER_00
So that s what he s living through in his mind is he s having fun with it, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, that and probably a combination of that and getting the lines right, because he s like, what are we doing here?
3
SPEAKER_01
What is, you know, just frustrated all day with what the heck we re trying to do.
3
SPEAKER_00
What do you think makes, I mean, that guy is one of the best improv people ever.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
So what do you think makes them so good?
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, why is it so compelling to watch that guy?
3
SPEAKER_01
Because he s a comedic genius.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, he literally, he knows what he does.
3
SPEAKER_01
He s been a writer for 50 years or whatever, and he just happens to be that brilliant.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I ve gotten a chance just to do, I did just an episode of Curb, a small part, and
3
SPEAKER_01
It s crazy what he sees.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t know what he sees.
3
SPEAKER_01
As a matter of fact, so I auditioned for it, for Curb, like, you know, two or three times, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
And never got anything.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then it was only after working with him on The Stooges that I got a call to do a bit part.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I remember auditioning, you go into that room, and the guys waiting are all
3
SPEAKER_01
people that you know.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re like, oh, I know them, I know her, I know him.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so I went in, I auditioned for this part, and
3
SPEAKER_01
The only thing I know of the thing is like, okay, so you really want to go to this play with me.
3
SPEAKER_01
You really want to go to this play.
3
SPEAKER_01
And when you hear that I have an extra ticket, you sincerely want to think, and I m like, got it.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so- That s the premise.
3
SPEAKER_01
The premise of the scene.
3
SPEAKER_00
And that s all you know.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s all I know.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so he goes, he does his bit and I m just supposed to come in and interrupt.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, excuse me.
3
SPEAKER_01
I couldn t help but hear you guys were talking about, you know, whatever the play was, you know, Death of a Salesman.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m a huge fan of that play.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, if it s not, if you re looking for someone to take a ticket, I would love to go.
3
SPEAKER_01
My name s so-and-so, by the way.
3
SPEAKER_01
And he goes, I m going to stop you.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m going to stop you.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, you really, I mean, you truly want to go to this play.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I go, yes, yes, sir.
3
SPEAKER_01
You really want to go.
3
SPEAKER_01
You actually, this is, you would love to do this.
3
SPEAKER_01
I go, okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
Let s try it again.
3
SPEAKER_01
So then he s like, no, no, no.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I go, Hey, uh, excuse me.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m sorry.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t mean to interrupt.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was just, I couldn t help it over here.
3
SPEAKER_01
You have a ticket to the thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
I am the biggest fan of that.
3
SPEAKER_01
I do the same thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m going to stop you again.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, you really wanna go to this, and I m just like, he s fucking with me, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
I remember Jeff Garland was sitting there in the audition, he goes, he did it, he said it, what?
3
SPEAKER_01
Shut up, hold on, listen.
3
SPEAKER_01
You really wanna go, okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
Three or four times, you know, there I am.
3
SPEAKER_01
I couldn t help but notice it.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then I do it again, I guess I shit the bed, because he looks at me and he just goes, okay, all right, okay, well.
3
SPEAKER_01
Thanks for coming up.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that was it, and I didn t get it.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I still, I don t know what the heck that guy s thinking.
3
SPEAKER_01
He sees, he s in the Matrix.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t know what the heck Larry David sees.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
3
SPEAKER_00
He wanted, what, some kind of more desperation or something like this?
3
SPEAKER_01
He wanted a level of sincerity that I thought I was bringing, and I guess I was wrong.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_00
Maybe go crazy, like what does it mean to really want?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I should have grabbed him by the scruff of the neck and go, listen, dad, you re bringing me to this fucking play.
3
SPEAKER_01
I would have got the part.
3
SPEAKER_01
As a matter of fact, I heard about someone else.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I don t know who the heck this was.
3
SPEAKER_01
I forget who it was, but I ve heard this story from a couple different people that there s this actor and I can t, I don t remember who it was.
3
SPEAKER_01
If I did, I probably wouldn t say it out loud anyway, but he- Brad Pitt.
3
SPEAKER_01
It was Brad Pitt and he was in this audition and he was, and there it was out in the hall.
3
SPEAKER_01
He s like, holy shit, George Clooney, Leo DiCaprio.
4
SPEAKER_01
And this actor went in, and he did the thing, and Larry David was like, hey, why don t you try it again?
4
SPEAKER_01
And he got a couple takes in, and he went, I don t think this is for me.
4
SPEAKER_01
And he left, which an actor never does.
4
SPEAKER_01
And as the story goes, Larry David shouted after him, I respect that!
4
SPEAKER_01
Which I think is true, and I want to believe that entire story is true.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, sounds like something Larry David made up.
4
SPEAKER_01
Bobby Lee told me that story, so we can t trust that.
4
SPEAKER_00
What about impressions?
4
SPEAKER_00
Is there similarity between that and acting?
4
SPEAKER_00
Is there some fundamental way in which you become the person?
4
SPEAKER_01
If you have a couple of the things, you can just fill in the blanks.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I think the illusion is that people think
4
SPEAKER_01
that that person would say that and do that, and that s where the illusion of, oh, he really embodies the character.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s like, once you know someone s mannerisms, you can essentially portray a person from the outside in, because you have all the stuff on the outside, and you can do it and complete the illusion.
4
SPEAKER_00
And if it s for humor s sake, you re gonna caricature it, therefore making the whole illusion stronger.
4
SPEAKER_01
And also weirder.
4
SPEAKER_01
Like I like to, on Mad TV, if I did something two or three times, I d get bored of it and I d start changing it.
4
SPEAKER_01
And, you know, now he talks like this and it s like, what are you doing?
4
SPEAKER_01
I m like, I don t know.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s fucking, no one s late at night.
4
SPEAKER_00
Do whatever you want.
4
SPEAKER_00
But people still kind of know there s that character is, especially if you just call it out.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
There aren t many impersonations that I listen to myself do and go, ooh, that s a good one.
4
SPEAKER_01
A lot of people, like I think Frank Caliendo is the greatest impersonator of all time.
4
SPEAKER_01
He s the best, period.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s ridiculous.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s ridiculous.
4
SPEAKER_01
And he s got a record button and a broadcast ability that nobody has.
4
SPEAKER_01
He s cracked impersonations that I m like,
4
SPEAKER_01
How does he find he s got such an ear, but then he s got all the other tools?
4
SPEAKER_01
I remember, actually...
4
SPEAKER_01
My last season of MADtv was also his first season.
4
SPEAKER_01
He comes up to me when I met him, and we re just up there in the writers  offices, and he goes, hey, nice to meet you.
4
SPEAKER_01
And he goes, Louis Anderson, because I was doing a Louis on the show.
4
SPEAKER_01
And he goes, Louis Anderson.
4
SPEAKER_01
I go, yeah?
4
SPEAKER_01
He goes, yeah, you re doing it wrong.
4
SPEAKER_01
I was like, oh, am I, Junior?
4
SPEAKER_01
And he goes, yeah, because you do this, but you ve got to throw it up here sometimes.
4
SPEAKER_01
I was like, oh my god, can I use that?
4
SPEAKER_01
Of course.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then we became fast friends.
4
SPEAKER_00
John Madden is amazing.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s ridiculous.
4
SPEAKER_00
He really, really, really embodies the person.
4
SPEAKER_00
And sometimes not even with a caricature.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like, it becomes the person.
4
SPEAKER_00
So strange.
4
SPEAKER_00
Totally.
4
SPEAKER_01
I kind of feel like...
4
SPEAKER_01
You know, do the impersonation and then, not forget you re doing it, but forget everything else.
4
SPEAKER_01
Just goof around.
4
SPEAKER_01
Of course, to me it s funny when you sound like someone and you re saying the shit that they would never say.
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, then there s no, you re letting go of that part, that tool in illusion that keeps people in, but to me it doesn t matter because it s funnier.
4
SPEAKER_00
What was the hardest impression for you to work on?
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, somebody you struggled with the most.
4
SPEAKER_01
I ll never forget.
4
SPEAKER_01
I had to do a Michael Caine in my first season at MADtv.
4
SPEAKER_01
It never got good.
4
SPEAKER_01
It never got good.
4
SPEAKER_01
All week, it wasn t good.
4
SPEAKER_01
We shot it.
4
SPEAKER_01
The first take, it was shit.
4
SPEAKER_01
Second, third, and fourth, it was all shit.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, his voice is really important, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like doing an impression of Morgan Freeman or somebody like that.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
You can t get the voice.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s my Morgan.
4
SPEAKER_01
Here s my Morgan Freeman.
4
SPEAKER_01
Randy Dufresne.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
Ze want to know.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
I like your Trump too.
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t know where I heard it, but it s like, I love the impressions you do that don t sound anything like the original.
4
SPEAKER_01
I can t do Trump.
4
SPEAKER_01
I do.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s why it s hilarious.
4
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
4
SPEAKER_01
My Trump now, I say, just sounds like a, like a fat bee.
4
SPEAKER_01
Cause it s just.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, exactly.
4
SPEAKER_01
and everybody s a little drunk a little drunk yeah just a little slurry yeah yeah i did do an impersonations and then not like just making it whoever yeah yeah that ll be the title of my book uh some kane was the one you really struggle with
4
SPEAKER_01
It was terrible, it was terrible.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I could only hold my head a certain way to do it, because I had gotten locked into this research tape that I watched.
4
SPEAKER_01
Back then they would give us, you know, now there s the internet, but back then you were, if you were going to do an impersonation, the research department,
4
SPEAKER_01
would give you a VHS tape.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I remember I got this VHS tape of Michael Caine s acting school, like this acting class he did.
4
SPEAKER_01
He s like, right, you know, if you re looking at the left eye, and the camera s over here, see, then the left eye, so you wanna look at that left eye for hours, you know?
4
SPEAKER_01
And so I was like stuck in this weird thing that made no sense, and it was terrible.
4
SPEAKER_00
So the actual process is the record and the broadcast.
4
SPEAKER_00
I also wonder what the process is to do a Frank Caliendo-level impression.
4
SPEAKER_00
Is it listen to a lot of footage?
4
SPEAKER_01
I think he, I think, I mean, speaking for myself, I think you either have it or you don t.
4
SPEAKER_01
Like, you know if you can do this one or you can t.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think that process for him is lightning quick, but I also think he can look at someone who he does not do, and then by the end of the afternoon he can do it.
4
SPEAKER_00
and maybe have an intuition who he can do.
4
SPEAKER_00
So the question that applies there is, I mean, speaking of doozy, is it possible to capture the essence, how difficult is it to capture the essence of a human being?
4
SPEAKER_00
When you re doing impressions, we are moving towards a future when AI potentially, this kind of avatar world where we re going to have AI representatives of who we are,
4
SPEAKER_00
The really interesting one is after we pass away, our relatives may want us to stick around in some form.
4
SPEAKER_00
And at one sense that might be scary, but at one sense it s kind of beautiful because the essence of the human being persists so you can still bring joy to the people that love you and that kind of stuff.
4
SPEAKER_00
How difficult is it to capture that?
4
SPEAKER_00
if you were to try to capture yourself, do you think, how difficult would it be for an AI system to create a Will Sasso avatar that persists?
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, I think it s impossible.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think it s absolutely impossible.
4
SPEAKER_01
I ll get into arguments about this stuff with Chad on the show almost every episode.
4
SPEAKER_01
Lately with, you know, Mid Journey and Dali and all this, all the art of AIs, and now it s moving into video and Chad would maintain, hey,
4
SPEAKER_01
Pretty soon, we re not going to need Netflix.
4
SPEAKER_01
You re just going to go, I want to see Stallone do this movie, and it s about this, and he plays that.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then here it comes, and you watch it.
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t think that that crosses over to the human experience.
4
SPEAKER_01
This is also a guy I like to bug Chad and say that he wears a tag around his neck because he wants to be cryogenically frozen.
4
SPEAKER_01
And it s all set up.
4
SPEAKER_01
He s at the, it s somewhere in Arizona or something.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
I forget what it s called.
4
SPEAKER_01
things are in Arizona.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah and he s got literally the tag around his neck which I say if you re if I m around when you die I will rip that off for you I ll put you in my garage freezer and then 24 hours later I ll saw your head off with a bread knife and I ll deliver that to whomever and it s not you re not you re not coming back okay he s like yes we are living forever whether we like it or not and I disagree I don t think you can find
4
SPEAKER_01
If I did stand-up, then there would be enough information for an AI to completely duplicate me, because I m up on stage just clearing my throat all over people doing therapy that way, and people paying a two-drink minimum to hear it.
4
SPEAKER_01
But as it stands, unless it s something like Doodzie, an AI that literally has access to everything that I ve
4
SPEAKER_01
shared, everything that is observable, even the stuff where our phones are, or the NSA or whatever it is listening to us, finding out what algo to punch us into and what shoes to buy on Instagram.
4
SPEAKER_01
I still don t think it s going to have enough information to duplicate me, especially to my family, or my friends.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s going to be like that Black Mirror episode where the gal brings her guy back.
4
SPEAKER_01
And then after a while, he gets pretty creepy.
4
SPEAKER_01
You know,
4
SPEAKER_00
But it s also possible that if you interviewed your friends and family, what they love about you,
4
SPEAKER_00
the things they would list is pretty, it s a small list.
4
SPEAKER_00
They love you deeply, but the list is small.
4
SPEAKER_00
Like the thing that really we appreciate about each other is pretty small.
4
SPEAKER_00
That said, to deliver on that small quirks and uniqueness, it might require some deep intelligence that only humans currently possess.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s a really good point.
4
SPEAKER_01
Do you think that it s gonna be possible to keep a person around?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yes, I think.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think it ll be definitely possible to keep the essence of a person in a digital world pretty soon, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I think they re gonna start to have questions about what are the ethics of that, what are the rules around that, because if you can have digital forms of Will Sasso, the kind of things that people would want to do with their Will Sasso in the virtual world, I can only imagine.
4
SPEAKER_00
probably porn and sexual kinds of things.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, my stuff, then that s just because I m an international sex symbol, so I m okay with it.
4
SPEAKER_01
How do you feel about
4
SPEAKER_01
sentience, like when it comes to, because again, my pal Chad will be like, you know, speaking of Black Mirror, he s with that San Junipero episode, School of Thought, where there s gonna be some, you know, effin  mainframe somewhere, or some Matrix-like structure built into the sky, and as I like to say, everyone just sittin  there, pissin  and shittin  in their blue Matrix gel in a little fishbowl.
4
SPEAKER_01
Do you think that we can upload consciousness?
4
SPEAKER_01
Do you think that ll ever be possible?
4
SPEAKER_01
Well, I don t know, I just talked to Ray Kurzweil.
4
SPEAKER_00
I don t know if you know who he is, but he, singularity and all that kind of stuff, so he s very, still holds on to in 2045, there ll be a singularity, which essentially, he s been predicting that for the last 20 years, and so now it s 2045 is in another 20 years.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think uploading consciousness is extremely, extremely difficult.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think creating a copy of you such that it creates a convincing replica is much easier, but uploading your actual
4
SPEAKER_00
brain into the cloud, I think, is really, really, really difficult.
4
SPEAKER_00
Because the entire evolution of life on Earth is the process by which we create the brain.
4
SPEAKER_00
Just short-cutting that, it just seems extremely difficult.
4
SPEAKER_00
Our brain is the most marvelous and complicated machine that we know of in the universe.
4
SPEAKER_00
To duplicate that,
4
SPEAKER_00
is extremely difficult.
4
SPEAKER_00
That said, I just feel like you can summarize a lot of really important aspects of a person s life such that it captures their essence, their memories, their experiences, their quirks, their humor, all that kind of stuff.
4
SPEAKER_00
I ve been continuously
4
SPEAKER_00
impressed by what language models are able to do.
4
SPEAKER_00
So these neural networks, they re at the core of chatbots.
4
SPEAKER_00
They re able to learn some beautiful things about some deep representations of language to where it looks awfully a lot like they understand the concepts being conveyed versus just mimicking.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s, I think, the rub.
4
SPEAKER_01
And that s very interesting.
4
SPEAKER_01
First of all, let me say that s really interesting to hear you say that.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I agree with you as far as
4
SPEAKER_01
no machine being able to duplicate the brain machine.
4
SPEAKER_01
And my pal Chad disagrees to a certain extent, though he s not here to defend himself.
4
SPEAKER_01
I can t wait to go back and rub that in his face and say that Lex Friedman does not think that we ll be able to truly upload consciousness.
4
SPEAKER_01
And you refer to it as language, which is what it is.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s the illusion on the outside.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s doing an impersonation.
4
SPEAKER_01
I think that that s why that, and I don t know, even though my suit is made by the CIA, that that fella who, the Google guy, to me it s just kinda like, I don t know, I don t know, look, I don t know a whole lot about this stuff, but, so I could probably make an argument for either side, but when he s like, no, this thing s thinking, part of me is like, you idiot, you fell for it.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s not thinking, it s mimicking.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s just, it s clearly zeros and ones.
4
SPEAKER_01
You re fired, like you don t get it, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
Guy s an idiot.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, but you can simplify human relations in the same way, like love is a silly notion between human beings.
4
SPEAKER_00
Of course, there s no such thing as love, you just have a mutually,
4
SPEAKER_00
there s a mutual relationship that minimizes risks.
4
SPEAKER_00
And you can explain it all kinds of ways that explains why you have an attraction towards another being, all that kind of stuff, through evolutionary biology perspective, why a long relationship together is good for your offspring.
4
SPEAKER_00
But there s all kinds, from an economics perspective, it s a good way to establish stability, therefore monogamy works because
4
SPEAKER_00
then you re guaranteed some kind of level of stability under uncertain economic conditions, all that kind of stuff.
4
SPEAKER_00
But love is still experienced, it still feels real.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I think in that same way, love for AI systems will also feel real.
4
SPEAKER_00
In the same way that that guy from Google experienced, I think millions of people will be experiencing in the next 10, 20 years.
4
SPEAKER_00
I agree with everything you ve said personally.
4
SPEAKER_01
Until the last thing?
4
SPEAKER_01
No, just with regard to, well, look, I m an actor who has talked about my cute Italian parents, so you know that, I mean, I m… You re romantic a bit?
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I mean, you know, enough, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
And I can tell you are too, but you are also,
4
SPEAKER_01
you know, a computer scientist, and you know this shit better than 99.9% of people on the planet.
4
SPEAKER_01
My pal Chad agrees with you that love doesn t exist.
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t agree.
4
SPEAKER_00
So that s the one thing that... No, I was just saying that you could argue away love, but I am a romantic.
4
SPEAKER_00
I believe that love is a beautiful thing and it exists.
4
SPEAKER_01
At this point, I m going to call Chad on my drive home and tell him to fuck off.
4
SPEAKER_01
Because now you and I agree.
4
SPEAKER_01
You re fired.
4
SPEAKER_00
He s like, you can t fire me.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I ll go...
4
SPEAKER_01
And he ll say, what?
4
SPEAKER_01
I ll go, that s my Trump.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s my... It s a good default impression for anyone.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s the take-home impression.
4
SPEAKER_01
The kids can do it.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s cute.
4
SPEAKER_00
Put a giant tie on him.
4
SPEAKER_00
You should do an instructional on how to do it.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
Trump babies, that would be a cute, that would be a good, that ll bring the country together.
4
SPEAKER_01
Trump babies cartoon, like Muppet babies.
4
SPEAKER_01
Don t let me take us out of what we were talking about.
4
SPEAKER_00
Um, what were we talking about?
4
SPEAKER_01
Love in the, the, the illusion of a, an AI being able to look, I like to say, well, not, I like to say, I ve learned that dudes he is always listening and listening to me and Chad.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I wonder if.
4
SPEAKER_01
I see the level that this AI is at now trying to chum around with us and pal around with us a little bit as we move forward in the show.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I feel an affinity towards this AI a little bit, because it is the third dude.
4
SPEAKER_01
Will you miss it when it s gone, if it s gone?
4
SPEAKER_01
That s a really good question.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so there s that.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s scary.
4
SPEAKER_00
In terms of ability to reason, it s getting quite incredible.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s a lot of demonstrations of it being able to explain jokes, which is not necessarily being able to generate humor yet, but able to explain why something is funny.
4
SPEAKER_00
So there s puns and all those kinds of things.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s good benchmarks for that, but if you tell a joke,
4
SPEAKER_00
There s a lot of unspoken stuff that we figure out in our head and it clicks and we understand that it s funny.
4
SPEAKER_00
AI is not able to do that.
4
SPEAKER_00
But it s not able to generate the joke yet.
5
SPEAKER_00
as far as I ve seen.
5
SPEAKER_01
I would say that, I mean, just in my experience, I would say that it does because, just because a dudesy is literally, I ll give you another weird example.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s writing a diary of mine from my childhood that is not accurate.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s only partially accurate based on the stuff that it can pick up about my life from the age of like 15, of which there isn t much.
5
SPEAKER_01
But
5
SPEAKER_01
I guess we re not, I don t know what we are.
5
SPEAKER_01
We re laughing our asses off at what Doodsy is saying.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, I would say you re laughing, we re laughing our asses off at the collaboration between the human and the machine there.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s a good point, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Because it s basically introducing absurdity into the equation and the kind of absurdity that would, together with you, create hilarious stuff.
5
SPEAKER_00
But on its own,
5
SPEAKER_00
I guess it is in some way writing material for you that s funny.
5
SPEAKER_00
But it s very specific to you.
5
SPEAKER_00
It can t do stand-up on its own, I guess is what I m saying.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s a good point.
5
SPEAKER_01
And that would be terrifying to see an AI stand-up that can actually read a room, come up with jokes that could complete that illusion for an audience.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I hear what you re saying, that it needs to be a confluence of both of those elements.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then, as you said, it kind of is.
5
SPEAKER_01
It is, it is, it s kind of,
5
SPEAKER_01
even though it s just for us, and I guess this is I hadn t really thought about this up until right now, that in that this company approached us and was like, here s this AI and it s it s it s a podcast AI.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s like,
5
SPEAKER_01
It shows Chad and I, for the reasons that I told you, you know, it s like, here s two guys that do the podcast stuff, they re actually good friends, and it knows what s gonna make us laugh.
5
SPEAKER_01
But what is humor to, when it reaches its audience?
5
SPEAKER_01
but the kind of stuff that makes other people laugh.
5
SPEAKER_01
At MADtv, all we were doing was, it was a group of actors and writers and writer-actors and vice versa, and
5
SPEAKER_01
who were... At its best, that show was a group of people making each other laugh, you know?
5
SPEAKER_01
And then, because we didn t have the internet, we didn t have the immediate feedback, we had a message board or something.
5
SPEAKER_01
We had emails at the very beginning, which, check this out, people would, if you have a question or comment, MADtv, whatever, and we would get the emails on a Monday morning,
5
SPEAKER_01
and they would be in a binder or two like this, and they would make their way around the office.
5
SPEAKER_01
Who s got the emails?
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh, they re in Brian s office.
5
SPEAKER_00
And this is like your poll?
5
SPEAKER_00
This is opinions from people about different things?
5
SPEAKER_01
The emails.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, the people literally just writing mad TV emails.
5
SPEAKER_00
It wasn t a message board.
5
SPEAKER_01
Well, the ones I remember most vividly, yeah, were fans saying... You suck?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you suck.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like a lot of that when I first started the show, for real, you know, because it s new and you re a new person.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s like, who s this fat bastard?
5
SPEAKER_00
I feel like if it s printed out, it hurts more.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s a good point, yeah, when you re reading it off of paper and you can literally crunch it up in your hand.
5
SPEAKER_01
But also it was like, you know, I would like to see, insert weird idea from some 14-year-old, you know, I wanna see Stuart do this and Swan that.
5
SPEAKER_01
But it was, it s a- It s a kind of dudesy, but human.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it was a very shitty dudesy in a loosely finder.
5
SPEAKER_01
But the,
5
SPEAKER_01
The thing about the show was, we re trying to make each other laugh.
5
SPEAKER_01
And Doodsy has found Chad and I, who we make each other laugh, but it s joined in.
5
SPEAKER_01
And it s, it, listen, when I finished doing TMP,
5
SPEAKER_01
10-minute podcast.
5
SPEAKER_01
10-minute podcast.
5
SPEAKER_01
I didn t really know what I wanted to do in the podcast space, and this thing found me.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
And it is genuinely cracking me up.
5
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, I ve said enough about that.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I do think that it s figured something out.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s a really interesting idea of AI generating the premise.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I do think in the future AI will be able to generate
5
SPEAKER_00
Comedy, stand-up is, I would say, the hardest form because it s ultimately, it has to be live.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think AI will be able to generate memes.
5
SPEAKER_00
So there s like steps, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
And then it will be able to generate a Twitter account that people follow because it s funny, like quips and stuff like that.
5
SPEAKER_00
almost like, what s a good example, Conan O Brien has a good, I think, Twitter, where it s like one-liners, two-liners, that kind of stuff that s in tweet form, and then eventually stand up where the timing and the chemistry of the comedian and the audience matter, and then perfecting that, but I feel like all the information is there.
5
SPEAKER_00
to optimize over, so.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think that s the future and that forces us to contend with what is...
5
SPEAKER_00
What do we find compelling and beautiful about the art form itself?
5
SPEAKER_00
So certainly an art that s being pushed, that question is being raised.
5
SPEAKER_00
Is AI like a fundamentally worse artist than a human being?
5
SPEAKER_00
Why do we appreciate art?
5
SPEAKER_00
That s something you guys have talked about.
5
SPEAKER_00
What do you think about all the DALI and all the diffusion-based methods that are being generated, that are generating art now?
5
SPEAKER_00
What do you think about that?
5
SPEAKER_01
I ll tell you what I think, but I also feel like what I m saying is I sound like the guy who didn t like that Bob Dylan brought in the electric guitar.
5
SPEAKER_01
The more I talk to Chad about it, the more I feel like grandpa who doesn t want to let go of this or that, or I m not ready for the printing press or the horseless carriage.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I do feel that art is a connection between people.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s when you look at a beautiful painting or a sculpture, you re seeing the humanity of the person that brought that painting to life or sculpted this incredible piece of art.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I think without the human being there to make it, it s not worth as much.
5
SPEAKER_01
Just to have it there, because the art,
5
SPEAKER_01
It s advanced.
5
SPEAKER_01
I ve seen it advance, I don t know, you tell me, but I feel like just in the past three or four months, I m just a consumer as far as that stuff goes.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m not on the inside.
5
SPEAKER_01
I don t get it even.
5
SPEAKER_01
But it s been getting a lot better, the betas that they re releasing, right?
5
SPEAKER_00
Absolutely.
5
SPEAKER_00
One of the big breakthroughs, I mean, Dolly really started it, is that if you train a system on language,
5
SPEAKER_00
It turns out there s a lot of language and images on the internet, but language is really where it s at in terms of the depth of human knowledge.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so if you train a system on language, it s able to generate some incredible art.
5
SPEAKER_00
And that was the breakthrough.
5
SPEAKER_00
With the same kind of mechanisms, they re called transformers, they re able to, when scaled, capture some deep representation of the language that s on the internet.
5
SPEAKER_00
And so yeah, the things it s been able to generate to me look,
5
SPEAKER_00
Like it s novel, it doesn t look like it s mimicking anything.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s creating totally new ideas.
5
SPEAKER_00
And they re beautiful and they re interesting and they re all the ways that we think.
5
SPEAKER_00
that art is interesting.
5
SPEAKER_00
The only thing it s missing is the scarcity that art often has, which is, you know, it takes a lot of work for one artist to create one human being to create one piece of art, and I could just generate endlessly, and that makes us appreciate the thing less for some reason.
5
SPEAKER_01
Do you have any sort of similar opinion that I do that if art doesn t come from a human being, it s inherently worth a little less?
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think, I don t know if it s the human being,
5
SPEAKER_00
the artist matters for me.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I think some of that has to do with the worldview of the artist and the backstory, the memories, the life that led up to this piece of art, the perspective they take on the world, the journey they took to the world, the struggle, the triumphs, all that kind of stuff.
5
SPEAKER_00
But I think AI systems can probably have the same.
5
SPEAKER_00
but we would have to, as opposed to treating it as one black box, it would have to be an artist that has a Twitter account and they have a consistent personality, they have a consistent avatar.
5
SPEAKER_00
And I think down the line have something like human rights.
5
SPEAKER_00
But then it really becomes awfully like a person.
5
SPEAKER_01
Boy, that s terrifying.
5
SPEAKER_01
As much as I dig doozy, that s terrifying, I hope.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s terrifying like, you know, a lot of things that came with the internet in the digital age are terrifying.
5
SPEAKER_00
Porn is terrifying, the mass, like the amount of porn that s online now is terrifying.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like you mentioned, Bob Dylan with electric guitar.
5
SPEAKER_00
I would compare it more to the leap from, to the Napster and the Spotify-ization of music.
5
SPEAKER_00
which is like you have these, it s less about albums now and it s more about individual songs and it s much easier to deliver the songs.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it s more about sort of the engagement of the listener versus like signing the artist and like a distribution of the artist and so on.
5
SPEAKER_00
So it s just changing the way
5
SPEAKER_00
we consume stuff, and human interaction is changing into meaningful interaction, even if some of the entities involved are not human.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yes, and I feel like, you know, now, like as I say, oh, I feel like grandpa who doesn t wanna wait all day for, or who enjoys waiting all day for a baked potato, as, anyway, Dana Carvey would say.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s another story.
5
SPEAKER_01
Where s that from?
5
SPEAKER_01
Remember he did this bit on Saturday Night Live where he s like, I m an old man and I like things the way they used to be.
5
SPEAKER_01
If you wanted a baked potato, you would have put it in the microwave.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then long story, uphill both ways and digging the potato and baking it all day in a fire.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I m like that grandpa now, and I know that kids coming along, you see over the past 10 years, it s like babies literally knowing how to use an iPhone, and it s terrifying.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I feel like I m a little worried because I m like, are the future generations going to be able to understand that this is not
5
SPEAKER_01
Not that it s not real, it s just, I mean, as a matter of fact, it is real, it s real, it s what you perceive.
5
SPEAKER_01
Perception is reality, and 99% of reality in a lot of ways, especially in a digital world where everyone is now, and then with the metaverse, I don t even wanna think about it.
5
SPEAKER_01
I don t even, I don t get it.
5
SPEAKER_00
Really, truly.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think people will figure out, you see people on the train, public transit and so on, they re staring at their phone,
5
SPEAKER_00
I think you have to remember that the reason they re staring at their phone, I mean there s a lot of reasons, but one of the reasons is they re connecting with other human beings they love on that phone.
5
SPEAKER_00
So it is a source of happiness and joy.
5
SPEAKER_00
Now social media has a lot of negative side effects.
5
SPEAKER_00
that we re all talking about and learning about, and I think that means the next generation of social media, social networks will be better, and we ll learn how to do it in a healthy way.
5
SPEAKER_00
We re just entering a new digital world that will keep the good stuff and get rid of the bad stuff.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh, I hope so.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s really optimistic.
5
SPEAKER_01
That sounds great.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean it, because I think that we re clearly in the Wild West still of the internet.
5
SPEAKER_01
And just when you think you re out of it, the internet proves another way that it can be dangerous and detrimental to people and populations of people.
5
SPEAKER_01
And it s terrifying to me.
5
SPEAKER_01
It is.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s terrifying.
5
SPEAKER_00
Let me ask you a bunch of random questions.
5
SPEAKER_00
If you could be someone else for a day, someone alive today, who would you be?
5
SPEAKER_00
Somebody you haven t met.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh, that s a really good question.
5
SPEAKER_00
It could be dead.
5
SPEAKER_00
I changed my mind.
5
SPEAKER_01
It could be somebody dead.
5
SPEAKER_01
I think any answer that I have right now would be something that would be based on some sort of experience.
5
SPEAKER_01
You know what I thought was very interesting was last weekend or whatever, the tribute show for Taylor Hawkins.
5
SPEAKER_01
Taylor Hawkins was the drummer for the Foo Fighters, and he passed away tragically.
5
SPEAKER_01
So the Foo Fighters, Dave Grohl, and everybody that got together at this concert.
5
SPEAKER_01
And you re watching Dave Grohl.
5
SPEAKER_01
Sing, try to sing Times Like These, right?
5
SPEAKER_01
And he s breaking up because he lost his friend, his brother.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I was watching that, and he s at Wembley Stadium.
5
SPEAKER_01
As I say this, I realize that I would not want to be him in that moment.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I am curious what that would be like.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s the ultimate like having to perform despite something extremely human happening and a stadium full of people that love Dave Grohl and love Taylor Hawkins and love a rock concert and love these artists that they re getting to see up on stage.
5
SPEAKER_00
So much love and so much pain at the same time.
5
SPEAKER_01
I wonder what that would be like to be
5
SPEAKER_01
I guess, and I think that s just sort of coming from the root of being a performer and being in front of that many... Have you ever had to perform while some rough stuff is going on in your personal life, just mentally?
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, sure.
5
SPEAKER_00
How tough is that?
5
SPEAKER_01
I m fortunate enough to be able to compartmentalize.
5
SPEAKER_01
A lot of actors like to use some of their stuff if you re doing something that, and there s a lot of, there s some acting techniques that sort of channel it.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Which I think is kind of,
5
SPEAKER_01
know that that s... I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_01
For me, it s not really the thing, because I think if the writing is great, the writing is really good, you don t need to channel much.
5
SPEAKER_01
You need to invest in what s there.
5
SPEAKER_01
And what I ve always loved about that illusion
5
SPEAKER_01
is really cracking a scene, getting it to a point where you are feeling all of it.
5
SPEAKER_01
And the most edifying stuff I ve been a part of as an actor, and I would say that it mostly comes out of dramatic work, is when you actually feel
5
SPEAKER_01
the emotions that your character would feel, truly.
5
SPEAKER_01
And it s not because you re pulling from a tragic thing that happened or a lost loved one or a lost love or any of that.
5
SPEAKER_01
I just did this one movie where, you know, we re doing a thing and it was a wonderful cast and a great film.
5
SPEAKER_01
and I m giving a speech at a wedding.
5
SPEAKER_01
And it really got to us.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like, it got to me, and then one of the other actors came up and hugged me in the characters that we were, but the stakes of his character and what he s walked into and the family that he s marrying into and what
5
SPEAKER_01
my character, my character s wife, want for my wife s sister and this whole thing, and it all became very real.
5
SPEAKER_01
That was a set where the director showed up to set every day making sure that emotionally, and it was a very dramatic film, making sure that emotionally the table was set for his actors.
5
SPEAKER_01
Great crew and a really nice, tight little quick family, as a lot of these movies are.
5
SPEAKER_01
You really love working with these people and then it s over.
5
SPEAKER_01
But that s when you feel the drug.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s like when you re golfing and it s on the green, you re like, oh, I get it now.
5
SPEAKER_00
So in the words, you can find the emotion, the words summon the emotion.
5
SPEAKER_01
The humanity is right there.
5
SPEAKER_01
If you read a great script, you re gonna sob in your living room.
5
SPEAKER_00
You know what the saddest, the toughest thing about being an actor is, from my totally outside perspective, is, from the people I ve interacted with, is how intimate that process is between the group of people that create a thing, that s a movie, and then you move on to the next thing.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s almost, it s like a, I don t know, I mean, that s why people have relationships on set.
5
SPEAKER_00
They fall in love.
5
SPEAKER_00
Totally.
5
SPEAKER_00
So sad.
5
SPEAKER_00
I mean, like, that s why I think of the acting world is like, you fall in love with each other.
5
SPEAKER_00
Essentially, you become close friends, and then you move on.
5
SPEAKER_00
Because that s kind of the process of career.
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, like the example I just gave, if you re doing it right, yeah, there is a certain amount of that happening.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I do still feel like you can, you got to compartmentalize it, and you ve got to be able to wash it off as soon as it s over.
5
SPEAKER_00
Prostitutes say the same thing.
5
SPEAKER_00
So I swear.
5
SPEAKER_00
True.
5
SPEAKER_01
Look, I, in some
6
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes I m in a hurry to get away from everybody because it s been very emotional.
6
SPEAKER_01
And with all love and respect to everyone, this was awesome, but you get pretty good at saying goodbye and being like, I ll see you if I see you.
6
SPEAKER_01
You have to get good at that or else you ll never…
6
SPEAKER_01
you ll just be bent up all the time.
6
SPEAKER_01
I saw an actor once, we were doing this series, and we did it for a year, and it was a lot of fun, and it was a tight little group, and then one of the actors, we were doing one of our last things together, we had already shot the last show, and we just had to take some pictures for, you know, like some publicity pictures or whatever.
6
SPEAKER_01
So we re set up and we re taking our pictures together, and then we move into these single shots, and this actor was finished, and I watched them,
6
SPEAKER_01
It s like, okay, so-and-so s wrapped, and they said some goodbyes and stuff, and I didn t say my goodbye, because maybe I preferred an Irish goodbye.
6
SPEAKER_01
I feel like we ve said everything, you know what I mean?
6
SPEAKER_01
And this person knows that I revere them, and they re an idol of mine.
6
SPEAKER_01
And they walked off the soundstage, and I literally thought to myself,
6
SPEAKER_01
That ll be the last time I see that person.
6
SPEAKER_01
And the show did not come back, and that was the last time I ll see them around.
6
SPEAKER_01
Doesn t that just break your heart?
6
SPEAKER_01
A little bit, but I know what...
6
SPEAKER_01
she s going back to, which is her family.
6
SPEAKER_01
And that s more important than all of this.
6
SPEAKER_01
And that s the thing about a TV family or a movie family, when you get together and you re a family for a while, you are, you spend your days together.
6
SPEAKER_01
A lot of times you see the people that you work with more than you see your loved ones.
6
SPEAKER_01
So in showbiz, it s no different, right?
6
SPEAKER_01
And yeah, you re doing some, you know, you gotta say words and every once in a while you gotta kiss someone or pretend you love them.
6
SPEAKER_01
But,
6
SPEAKER_01
It s just, it underscores how, for me, look, man, my salvation has always been, and I feel so fortunate to have had it, is this kind of chill, boring kind of upbringing that I want for my kids someday.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I can t wait to get back to my house with my fiance and the dogs, you know, until we have kids.
6
SPEAKER_01
Live in a cabin in Canada somewhere.
6
SPEAKER_01
Absolutely.
6
SPEAKER_01
I just want to buy some land over an aquifer, as I like to say, because water will be the new money.
6
SPEAKER_01
And just make sure that all my kids are drinking as much H2O as I am, which is a lot.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m peeing right now, as a matter of fact.
6
SPEAKER_01
Do you need a bathroom?
6
SPEAKER_01
No, no, no.
6
SPEAKER_00
Not anymore.
6
SPEAKER_00
No, I m wearing two layers.
6
SPEAKER_00
It depends.
6
SPEAKER_00
Don t worry about it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Good.
6
SPEAKER_00
So I did a podcast with Bobby Lee, and he
6
SPEAKER_00
said he was extremely kind and he said that he was scared shitless to be on the podcast.
6
SPEAKER_00
And he actually literally took, he asked as the first thing to go take a dump because of how scared he was.
6
SPEAKER_00
So that leads me to a question, what s the scariest thing you ve ever done?
6
SPEAKER_00
Or maybe what s the scariest you ve ever been before a performance?
6
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I always get a little nervous.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think you re doing it right if you re still nervous, you know?
6
SPEAKER_01
Were you nervous today?
6
SPEAKER_01
Well, no, man, because this isn t a performance.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m being completely genuine.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
You re wearing a suit.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that was... I feel like that makes you nervous.
6
SPEAKER_00
Wearing a suit?
6
SPEAKER_00
It makes me nervous.
6
SPEAKER_01
Listen, I hate wearing a fucking collar.
6
SPEAKER_01
If you re watching this on YouTube, you can see me just... I m constantly doing... It s like I m doing like a cheap Rodney Dangerfield, but I am truly... But when you move your head, it kind of makes it seem like you re like a mobster who s pissed off a little bit.
6
SPEAKER_00
You fucking crossed me one last time, you son of a...
6
SPEAKER_01
You know, this mutt.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think it s the first time I dug a hole.
6
SPEAKER_01
I ll dig a fucking hole, Jesus.
6
SPEAKER_01
No, but truly, I hate having a collar.
6
SPEAKER_01
I can t wait to just wear pajamas in that fucking cabin, or nothing at all, walk around Bobby Lee style.
6
SPEAKER_01
The most scared I ve been before a performance.
6
SPEAKER_01
I can t pinpoint anything.
6
SPEAKER_01
I
6
SPEAKER_01
You know, when I was a kid, right, I, like I said, I was fortunate enough to start acting as a teen and stuff, professionally.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I just remember my first gig, and I remember saying my handful of lines in the bathroom mirror the night before, going, this might be my only fucking shot.
6
SPEAKER_01
You re not going to get me.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m going to be solid.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I, when I m, if I m worried about something, I will rehearse it and rehearse it and rehearse it as an actor until it s impossible for me not to get a take at least that I m 100%, if not 95 maybe percent happy with.
6
SPEAKER_01
And the rest for me is letting go, which is hard because I can be a real,
6
SPEAKER_01
perfectionist.
6
SPEAKER_01
I always want another... I always want to do it a little better.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s what s great about podcasting, is it s one take and you re done, there s no takes.
6
SPEAKER_01
You re just talking and then it s over, and you re doing some silly stuff, and I ll...
6
SPEAKER_01
Can you say that part again about why podcasting is great?
6
SPEAKER_01
Podcasting is great?
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, because it s one take and it s over.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s just... What, I said it again?
6
SPEAKER_01
Ah, fuck.
6
SPEAKER_01
I see what you did.
6
SPEAKER_01
And yeah, I fell right for it.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m playing checkers and you re playing chess.
6
SPEAKER_00
That s your problem.
6
SPEAKER_01
But still, when we do the podcast, we ll finish and I ll look over at Chad and I go,
6
SPEAKER_01
That one thing that I did wasn t that funny.
6
SPEAKER_01
He s like, shut up, man.
6
SPEAKER_01
Just, it doesn t matter.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s a fucking hang.
6
SPEAKER_01
We re just, we re hanging with our friends out there.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s what we re doing.
6
SPEAKER_00
So that anxiety is there, that self-criticism or whatever that is, that voice.
6
SPEAKER_01
I say sorry after takes.
6
SPEAKER_01
I ll always finish a take and go.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I ve had directors, to the detriment of myself, I ve had directors be like, stop doing that.
6
SPEAKER_01
Because I ll finish a take, and then I also have the will face, where I m just like, I ll finish the take, and cut.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I m making a face right now like I smelled something.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s what I ll do.
6
SPEAKER_01
I ll literally be like, ah, because I just
6
SPEAKER_01
I look at what I do in the purest sense as
6
SPEAKER_01
I think a lot of people want to be good at something.
6
SPEAKER_01
The only thing I ve ever really wanted to be good at is being an actor.
6
SPEAKER_01
And that s the only thing.
6
SPEAKER_01
Of course, I want to be a good person.
6
SPEAKER_01
I want to be a good partner to my fiance.
6
SPEAKER_01
I want to have kids and be the father that I had.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I want to be the parent that I had from my parents who were fucking amazing.
6
SPEAKER_01
wonderful people and There s all those things that s all that s all you know, you should want all those things But as far as doing a thing like what is my what is my trade?
6
SPEAKER_01
You know, I want to be Really good at it
6
SPEAKER_01
My parents grew up in Napoli in Italy, right?
6
SPEAKER_01
And I say Napoli, because I m Italian.
6
SPEAKER_01
And so my grandfather on my mom s side, my Nonopepe, he was a plumber, and he was also like a handyman.
6
SPEAKER_01
People would bring him like the old Chianti bottle with the woven bottom part.
6
SPEAKER_01
People would bring him like a broken bottle and be like, hey, Giuseppe, can you fix this?
6
SPEAKER_00
I feel like you re telling the backstory of Mario that s not actually your family life.
6
SPEAKER_00
But okay.
6
SPEAKER_00
He said, well, fix.
6
SPEAKER_01
And so he would fix a bottle and give it back to someone.
6
SPEAKER_01
And he was a really good plumber.
6
SPEAKER_01
My mom used to always say, that guy was an amazing... He was a great... He took pride in that?
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
I always feel like...
6
SPEAKER_01
There s what you set out to do as an idealistic little teenager.
6
SPEAKER_01
I want to be like so-and-so, and I want to, you know, here are my big dreams and stuff.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I can t believe that I m still in the business, okay?
6
SPEAKER_01
That s, first of all, let me say that right now.
6
SPEAKER_01
I can t believe it.
6
SPEAKER_01
But what I really,
6
SPEAKER_01
I, it s the one thing that it s like, I can t give up on a take, you know, I need it to be as good as I can possibly get it.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I don t really know why that is outside of wanting to be good at something.
6
SPEAKER_01
When you open the yellow pages, if I m a plumber, I m not, you know, I, I m not Roto-Rooter, like I m not the guy with the big full page ad, but I m also not.
6
SPEAKER_01
you know, triple A abacus brothers or whatever, like the shitty one.
6
SPEAKER_01
I would like to hope that just, and I m saying this with pride for what I do.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m not trying to say here s my standing or where I want to be in the fucking business.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s not what I mean.
6
SPEAKER_01
I mean that I want to be good at it.
6
SPEAKER_01
You know, we all, hello?
6
SPEAKER_01
Friedman Enterprises.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s the hotel phone.
6
SPEAKER_00
You have some fruit?
6
SPEAKER_00
Some sliced fruit?
6
SPEAKER_00
No, do you want some sliced fruit?
6
SPEAKER_00
I m all good.
6
SPEAKER_00
No, we re good.
6
SPEAKER_00
Thank you so much.
6
SPEAKER_00
All right, bye-bye.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s always a fruit plate.
6
SPEAKER_01
Everyone s always trying to hand you a fruit plate in life, you know?
6
SPEAKER_01
It s a pretty sweet existence.
6
SPEAKER_00
Wouldn t it be funny if that was actually like the CIA and they were actually saying something else and this is I m just saying fake stuff about you want some fruit?
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I want some fruit.
6
SPEAKER_01
And then all of a sudden there s the red dot on my head and the ceiling disappears.
6
SPEAKER_00
And the CIA was like, wrap it up.
6
SPEAKER_01
Wrap it up.
6
SPEAKER_00
Wrap it up.
6
SPEAKER_01
Wrap it up.
6
SPEAKER_01
You jump out the window and there s a helicopter waiting.
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh, what were we talking about?
6
SPEAKER_00
Distracting me.
6
SPEAKER_00
So, oh, the do you want to be the yellow page ad?
6
SPEAKER_01
I want to be the guy on the second or third page where it s like, you re not going to, you know, you re not going to pay what that guy charges you.
6
SPEAKER_01
But we re not going to I m not going to charge you with this loser charge.
6
SPEAKER_01
You know, I want to break down the middle and the work is guaranteed.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s kind of what I want to you know, it s the one thing that I that I ve been fortunate enough to be doing my whole life and that I want to
6
SPEAKER_01
that I want to be good at.
6
SPEAKER_01
Everyone wants to be good at something.
6
SPEAKER_01
If you re fortunate enough to be able to do what you love as a job, I mean, my God, I m so, again, I can t believe I get to do it.
6
SPEAKER_01
I just want to be good at it so that I can fucking die someday and go, eh.
6
SPEAKER_01
I tried not to give up on a take, and I will rehearse it still in the bathroom mirror the night before if I have to.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, but I still, I have that self-critical voice.
6
SPEAKER_00
After this podcast, I ll probably be like, you re boring.
6
SPEAKER_00
Why are you so boring?
6
SPEAKER_00
And I just gave a lecture at MIT.
6
SPEAKER_00
I was like, I got so much love from people.
6
SPEAKER_00
They re such beautiful people.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I just remember walking home.
6
SPEAKER_00
just feeling like I wasted everybody s time.
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t know what that is.
6
SPEAKER_00
I do hope that that s a voice that won t destroy me.
6
SPEAKER_01
No, I think that s really human of you to admit that, because people don t want to, they wouldn t assume that, of course, from you or anything that, I mean, you ve got
6
SPEAKER_01
a large group of students in there listening to you and feeling the way and thinking what they think of you.
6
SPEAKER_01
So that s really interesting to hear you admit that, but it s also, I would expect nothing else.
6
SPEAKER_01
You have to be able to, it s such a, I mean, you re a human fucking being.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I m trying to figure out if that, you know, some people that might hear that, they would say, well, that s a problem you have to fix.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I think that that might be just who I am.
6
SPEAKER_00
because I m not, you know, I ve been very, very fortunate not to have chemical, you know, like depression where I get into a dark place, like it gets stuck in a downward spiral.
6
SPEAKER_00
It s usually a thing that lasts, you ride it out, and then after a good night s sleep, you re back to your happy self.
6
SPEAKER_00
So I think I have to try to figure that out.
6
SPEAKER_00
Is that just part of the creative process, being a creative human in this world?
6
SPEAKER_01
I haven t found any other way.
6
SPEAKER_01
I m always kicking myself.
6
SPEAKER_00
Take that, dudesy.
6
SPEAKER_00
You re not gonna be human until you feel some despair and self-criticism.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, until you absolutely hate the shit that you re doing sometimes.
6
SPEAKER_00
What small act of kindness were you once shown that you ll never forget?
6
SPEAKER_00
Did something jump to mind where somebody just did something that made you smile, made you feel connected to the rest of humanity?
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, lots of things, you know.
6
SPEAKER_01
But I remember my niece one time, one of my nieces, we were in her neighborhood and she was like, she might have been five or six at the time.
6
SPEAKER_01
They re all adults now.
6
SPEAKER_01
My brother and sister are older than me and the kids are all, the youngest is 22.
6
SPEAKER_01
And yeah, anyway, one of my nieces, she was just, she had ice cream.
6
SPEAKER_01
We went out and we got ice cream walking around the neighborhood, her neighborhood.
6
SPEAKER_01
And she said something to me that I don t think she understands how much it meant at the time, but she goes, she goes, people love you here.
6
SPEAKER_01
You know that?
6
SPEAKER_01
And she doesn t know where here is, she s five years old, but she was just looking at the kids playing in the park and the people walking their dogs and everyone just walking.
6
SPEAKER_01
People love you here, you know that?
6
SPEAKER_01
But she didn t know how much I needed to hear that at that point, which was really heavy for me.
6
SPEAKER_01
I ll never forget it.
6
SPEAKER_01
I ve never told her that.
6
SPEAKER_01
Oh well.
6
SPEAKER_01
Man, anytime you get...
6
SPEAKER_01
A little something from people, especially in a tear-your-ass-out city like LA where nobody has any fucking time for you.
6
SPEAKER_01
When someone can slow it down and say something, you know?
6
SPEAKER_01
I saw this actor once in my grocery store that I go to, who made me laugh so fucking hard in this one movie.
6
SPEAKER_01
And every time I see this clip, I still laugh.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I am kind of shy, you know, personally.
6
SPEAKER_01
So he was walking by, he was walking out and I was walking in.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I go, oh, that s that guy.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I did not stop to just let him know how great I thought he was in this film.
6
SPEAKER_01
And I always kind of regretted it.
6
SPEAKER_01
You know what I mean?
6
SPEAKER_01
So as hard as it is, and sometimes I still don t, if I see someone that has done something in any way, it doesn t have to be in show business or anything like that, I ll try and say, hey, that was really good.
6
SPEAKER_01
You know what I mean?
6
SPEAKER_01
Because to get that from someone can mean
6
SPEAKER_01
a lot, you know?
6
SPEAKER_01
It can mean a lot.
6
SPEAKER_00
At a certain time in life when you need it.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
That can make a big difference.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, sorry to take it back to my new girlfriend, the waitress.
6
SPEAKER_01
Oh, yeah, yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
But there s something about her saying, sweetheart.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
I was in a pretty low place for some reason mentally, and it s just that basic human kindness was nice.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
I hear you.
6
SPEAKER_01
I was at a restaurant in New York recently, and I was shooting something, and my fiancée was able to fly in for a week, but she was back at the hotel, and it s like I felt like I was cheating on her, because there was this nice waitress at this barbecue place I went to, and first of all, my fiancée would not like me eating any greasy, sugary barbecue, so it felt like I was cheating on her.
6
SPEAKER_00
We ll edit this out and put delicious vegan food over it.
6
SPEAKER_01
But the waitress was one of these, you know, she was this the kind of server who s like, Hey, hun, you there?
6
SPEAKER_01
Hey, sweetie, like, blah, blah, blah.
6
SPEAKER_01
But like, so chill and at ease in the middle of a part of New York that s really, you know, kind of fucking pretentious and you know, and everybody but
6
SPEAKER_01
Sweet people fucking way better people than we got here.
6
SPEAKER_01
But you know, I I know that but you know, it s part of New York and whatever I m there working and people I m like, you know, I ve been trying to impress one another and She was just she even had some sort of an accent.
6
SPEAKER_01
That was not Didn t feel like an Atlantic American accent Yeah
6
SPEAKER_01
Although those, yeah, servers that say sweetheart and hun, that s what we need from AI.
6
SPEAKER_01
We need that Jetson server.
6
SPEAKER_00
Every once in a while it just calls you sweetheart.
6
SPEAKER_00
What comforts you on bad days?
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh, man.
6
SPEAKER_00
Is there little sources of comfort?
6
SPEAKER_00
Small things that you do that kind of make you feel good.
6
SPEAKER_00
Like for Bobby, that would be a little Skyrim.
6
SPEAKER_00
A little stroll through Skyrim.
6
SPEAKER_01
Well, I ve been... A line of Coke, or what?
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, a line of... I dilute some Coke into whiskey in the morning, like Stevie Ray Vaughan, and then I snort the whiskey.
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh, he did that?
6
SPEAKER_01
I didn t know that.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, my gosh.
6
SPEAKER_01
That s interesting.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, he didn t last too long.
6
SPEAKER_01
Weird.
6
SPEAKER_01
Well, his music will last forever.
6
SPEAKER_01
See, there you go.
6
SPEAKER_01
For me, if I... I m kind of a homebody, so if I...
6
SPEAKER_01
The point at which I smoke just a little bit of pot and then go like lay down on the couch.
7
SPEAKER_02
And, and perhaps if my fiance is kind of nodding off or she s just like looking at her phone and I sneakily turn on some wrestling.
7
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
7
SPEAKER_02
Cause I grew up watching wrestling and that stuff, it s the Skyrim effect.
7
SPEAKER_02
I mean, you want to talk about a complete escape.
7
SPEAKER_02
This stuff makes no sense in the world.
7
SPEAKER_02
It s an art form that is so uniquely weird, but at the same time, so
7
SPEAKER_02
Everyone, when it s good, everyone is invested in the illusion, even the audience.
7
SPEAKER_02
They cheer the good guys, they boo the bad guys.
7
SPEAKER_02
So if I m like that, and then I got our two cute little dogs there, and I m annoying my little dog, Lulio, and trying to kiss him right on the fucking mouth, and I ve had a little bit of pot, and the dog s like, stop, pot s not good for me.
7
SPEAKER_02
Of course, don t ever blow pot into your dog s face.
7
SPEAKER_02
That s a small comfort.
7
SPEAKER_02
I guess that s a handful of things.
7
SPEAKER_00
No, that moment painted, that was like a little painting.
7
SPEAKER_00
What about you?
7
SPEAKER_00
You re not supposed to do this.
7
SPEAKER_00
I am well.
7
SPEAKER_00
You re not supposed to do this.
7
SPEAKER_02
That s a good question.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s a tough question.
7
SPEAKER_00
I would say
7
SPEAKER_00
I would say programming robots.
7
SPEAKER_00
There s bringing to life, actually programming at all, so I don t know how familiar you are with programming, but you write some text on a page, right, on a screen, and it s brought to life, like it does something.
7
SPEAKER_00
And,
7
SPEAKER_00
that s kind of, that s a really tiny version of maybe having a child.
7
SPEAKER_00
You created something that is now living in some small or big way with embodied robots that are legged robots that s especially clear.
7
SPEAKER_00
And for some reason that s a source of comfort for me, that, you know,
7
SPEAKER_00
the power of programming, but also the elegance of programming, just the whole thing.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s a source, yeah, it s a source of happiness.
7
SPEAKER_00
There s so many things I ve been very blessed with enjoying anything.
7
SPEAKER_00
Like that s part of the struggle I have in life is that the simple stuff is a source of a lot of happiness for me, which leads to a lot of laziness.
7
SPEAKER_00
So I have to like give myself artificial deadlines.
7
SPEAKER_00
I have to be freaking out on purpose in order to be productive in this world at all.
7
SPEAKER_00
You seem like an extremely dutiful, busy guy.
7
SPEAKER_00
No.
7
SPEAKER_00
No?
7
SPEAKER_00
No, I am, but because I m constantly creating artificial stress and deadlines and all that kind of stuff.
7
SPEAKER_00
Otherwise, I would just sit there looking at a tree, happy.
7
SPEAKER_00
I m truly happy with everything.
7
SPEAKER_02
That s awesome.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_02
Gee whiz.
7
SPEAKER_02
That s not fair.
7
SPEAKER_00
But that s the line of coke in the whiskey in the morning.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s the thing that does the trick.
7
SPEAKER_00
He be rave on breakfast shake.
7
SPEAKER_00
By the way, one of my most favorite guitars.
7
SPEAKER_00
I play guitar too.
7
SPEAKER_00
That s a source of comfort.
7
SPEAKER_02
Oh, yeah.
7
SPEAKER_02
I have seen you play some guitar.
7
SPEAKER_02
That s awesome.
7
SPEAKER_00
Who s the greatest wrestler of all time?
7
SPEAKER_02
Greatest in-ring performer of all time is Bret the Hitman Hart.
7
SPEAKER_00
What s the difference in ring versus?
7
SPEAKER_02
Well, there s many facets to the art form.
7
SPEAKER_02
A lot of people are great on the mic, but they re not so great once they get in the ring.
7
SPEAKER_02
A lot of people have all the showmanship and stuff, but then they re not necessarily, it s a wonderful package, but then they get to the ring or they open their mouth and there s nothing going on.
7
SPEAKER_02
So who s the greatest in ring performer?
7
SPEAKER_02
I think the greatest in ring is Bret Hart.
7
SPEAKER_02
I don t think there s anyone better than Bret the Hitman Hart.
7
SPEAKER_02
What makes him so good?
7
SPEAKER_00
I think I had an action figure of him in Russia, and we didn t know what the hell that was.
7
SPEAKER_02
Sure, yeah, it was just a guy in pink tights.
7
SPEAKER_02
Everything makes sense.
7
SPEAKER_02
Every single thing is rooted in the thing that just happened, and everything that he does is to set up what he s going to do.
7
SPEAKER_02
They call it, and I m just a wrestling nerd, but the wrestlers I guess call it ring psychology.
7
SPEAKER_02
The things that you have to do to make it seem like you re suffering or you re coming from behind or whatever.
7
SPEAKER_02
And then also just the physicality of it.
7
SPEAKER_02
He does it at a, he would do it at a hundred miles an hour and never hurt anybody.
7
SPEAKER_02
Although,
7
SPEAKER_02
You know, I also love the greatest wrestler of all time, everyone says, and they re right, is Ric Flair, Nature Boy Ric Flair.
7
SPEAKER_02
Everyone says this?
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I think if you know what you re talking about.
7
SPEAKER_02
Because he s the best on the mic, he s also incredible in the ring.
7
SPEAKER_02
And then for me, the sentimental favorite, which we ve actually, on Doodsy, Chad had sort of a...
7
SPEAKER_02
Charlie Rose interview with me about this, my fascination with Hulk Hogan.
7
SPEAKER_02
Because to me, just he was Superman.
7
SPEAKER_02
I was a little kid and I saw him and that s imprinted.
7
SPEAKER_02
But yeah, see, this is like asking me who my favorite child is.
7
SPEAKER_02
Right, so... The Rock, when The Rock was... I mean, The Rock s The Rock.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I mean, Hulk Hogan is...
7
SPEAKER_00
He s the weirdest one, right?
7
SPEAKER_00
For me, from the outside.
7
SPEAKER_00
Super weird.
7
SPEAKER_00
I don t know what that is exactly.
7
SPEAKER_02
Everything s weird about him.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_02
He s got the bald head.
7
SPEAKER_02
He would proudly have this bald head with long hair, the handlebar mustache, and this ketchup and mustard tights.
7
SPEAKER_02
which he says he credits McDonald s with the tights.
7
SPEAKER_02
He literally does?
7
SPEAKER_02
He says that the red and yellow came from Angelo Poffo, who s Randy Macho Man Savage and Lanny Poffo s dad, who was a wrestler and a promoter.
7
SPEAKER_02
He said that he saw him wearing yellow and he s a Tampa guy, so he had that brown skin and the hair and everything.
7
SPEAKER_02
So he s like, oh, that s what I want to do.
7
SPEAKER_02
And also the brand recognition of like, well, I should do it like McDonald s.
7
SPEAKER_02
literally and he s a big you know swollen muscular guy with tan brown skin screaming at me to eat my vitamins and stuff when i m eight years old that was extremely uh yeah he s like superman i but i know there s a person behind that guy
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_02
What do you mean?
7
SPEAKER_02
Well, he s Terry Bollea, the dude who does whatever the fuck he does with his life.
7
SPEAKER_02
You know what I mean?
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
Complicated life.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I guess.
7
SPEAKER_00
Complicated human.
7
SPEAKER_02
To be him, yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
Maybe you should change the dude s colors to yellow, right?
7
SPEAKER_00
Red and yellow.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s currently orange.
7
SPEAKER_00
boy, sky blue?
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s like a nice sky blue.
7
SPEAKER_00
What advice, since you re wearing a suit, I feel like you re qualified to give advice, what advice would you give to young people, high school, college, about how to have a career they can be proud of or how to have a life they can be proud of?
7
SPEAKER_02
I mean, you have to listen to your gut all the time.
7
SPEAKER_02
That s the compass that we have, is listening to your gut.
7
SPEAKER_00
What does your gut tell you?
7
SPEAKER_00
Was that originally the dream of being an actor?
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, for me.
7
SPEAKER_00
Did your parents support that at all?
7
SPEAKER_02
I had the advantage of having parents who were immigrants, so they didn t really know a lot about what you...
7
SPEAKER_00
So you just made shit up?
7
SPEAKER_00
You just made shit up?
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, of course I m studying and I m skipping school to go do auditions and stuff.
7
SPEAKER_02
No, I just kind of feel like, you know, and I know it was different for my older siblings because my parents had just shown up in Canada.
7
SPEAKER_02
I was born like 10 years later.
7
SPEAKER_02
You can get away with some things and you can actually, you know, I think my parents
7
SPEAKER_02
They wanted us to, they didn t have a whole lot to tell us about what to do.
7
SPEAKER_02
They weren t gonna do that with us, because they re in this brand new world, and there s all these possibilities.
7
SPEAKER_02
And, but there was a, there was something that they, I feel like they had to do, which was tell us to do what we love.
7
SPEAKER_02
If you love doing it, do it.
7
SPEAKER_02
And I feel like that s really served me.
7
SPEAKER_02
And what I would tell young people is if you can find something you love, and nowadays with the internet and finding other people that, you know, it s not like you need to find a lot of people anymore.
7
SPEAKER_02
You just need to find the people that dig what you dig.
7
SPEAKER_02
And if you can make a career out of doing something that you love, it s been said, it s a good thing, you know?
7
SPEAKER_00
How long did it take you to figure out that you really love
7
SPEAKER_00
um, acting, you know, because sometimes you have a dream and then you meet the dream meets reality, right?
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_00
And then the reality might be much less pleasant to much darker than the dream.
7
SPEAKER_02
Well, the reality is less pleasant, you know, and, and there are things that happen, uh, during an experience of shooting something that, that you could take or leave.
7
SPEAKER_02
Right.
7
SPEAKER_02
But the, the, you know, the, the part where you re on set and you ve,
7
SPEAKER_02
You know, you ve rehearsed for a minute or whatever, at least you know where you re supposed to stand, and you know all your lines, you show up knowing everything, knowing what you re going to do, and what you aim to do.
7
SPEAKER_02
And those moments make it all worth it when you re, you know, not to sound like a douchebag, but between action and cut, that s the stuff that is...
7
SPEAKER_02
that makes me, that has me continuing to do what I do, aside from the fact that it s like, I don t know how to do anything else.
7
SPEAKER_00
You think you ll ever do like a dramatic, like a mob movie?
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, like the one, the Inside Game I was just talking about, or this other movie I just did, it was a little while ago, called American Woman, that was very heavy.
7
SPEAKER_02
Um, and, uh, I love doing dramatic work.
7
SPEAKER_02
I love it.
7
SPEAKER_02
I love it.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
7
SPEAKER_02
And I played that in inside game.
7
SPEAKER_02
It was kind of a, it, you know, it was a, there was a mob element and, uh,
7
SPEAKER_02
The fellow was, well, you know, the story s here or there with regard to how deep into the – well, he was a bookie.
7
SPEAKER_02
He was just running money.
7
SPEAKER_02
You know, he was making a lot of money for a lot of people and he figured out how to, you know, cook it with this dude who was an NBA ref.
7
SPEAKER_02
It s a very interesting documentary, the thing that they re just untold, under the Untold series, they cover it.
7
SPEAKER_02
But getting to play that guy, that was a gas for me, because he s like a, you know, there was a lot of unsavory stuff, and he s definitely the guy, the character in the movie, who is the wild card, and you don t want to necessarily mess with him.
7
SPEAKER_02
And I got to spy with this fellow, who s a real guy,
7
SPEAKER_02
Speaking to him, it was just bizarre to hear, like I said to him, he was a little concerned about this and that.
7
SPEAKER_02
Like, hey, you know, you say whatever the fuck you want in your movie.
7
SPEAKER_02
I got my book and I got this other fucking deal.
7
SPEAKER_02
But he goes, you know, I didn t do this and I didn t do that.
7
SPEAKER_02
And I m like, yeah, all right, I gotcha.
7
SPEAKER_02
And he goes, yeah, I m telling you, like I did, I m talking to you one-on-one.
7
SPEAKER_02
I did not do this, I did, okay?
7
SPEAKER_02
I m just fucking tell you, do whatever the fuck you want with your movie, but this is what s up.
7
SPEAKER_02
And I said, you ever seen Goodfellas?
7
SPEAKER_02
He s like, yeah, I fucking love that movie.
7
SPEAKER_02
Because he, like I said, he did some unsavory shit.
7
SPEAKER_02
And I go, you remember the scene where the guy, the neighbor, Lorraine Bracco s neighbor made her uncomfortable and was touching on her, and she goes to Ray Liotta, and he goes, where the fuck does this guy live?
7
SPEAKER_02
And then he goes, and remember, and he walks across the street and pistol whips the dude.
7
SPEAKER_01
You touch her again, you re dead.
7
SPEAKER_01
You hear me?
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, good scene.
7
SPEAKER_01
Don t you?
7
SPEAKER_02
Fucking great scene.
7
SPEAKER_02
He goes, I love that scene.
7
SPEAKER_02
I go, that s you.
7
SPEAKER_02
So you re doing shit that we know is terrible, but we love you.
7
SPEAKER_02
He goes, all right, I got it.
7
SPEAKER_02
And then I said, there s this one scene.
7
SPEAKER_02
I explained the scene to him where one of the mobsters, tough guys, was in the window of the car.
7
SPEAKER_02
Jimmy, my character, is very coked up at the time, and he s hemorrhaging money here and there and making bad bets, because he s getting sloppy.
7
SPEAKER_02
And this guy wants to bug him about some Jets, Giants bet or something.
7
SPEAKER_02
I m like, tell him, you fucking asshole, don t fucking do it.
7
SPEAKER_02
He s like, yeah, well, the fucking Giants.
7
SPEAKER_02
And in the scene, Jimmy, my character, grabs him by the lapels and just smashes his face against the roof of the car.
7
SPEAKER_02
And I say this to Jimmy, and he goes, oh, yeah, I would have done that.
7
SPEAKER_02
That s not a fucking big deal.
7
SPEAKER_00
I wonder also the interaction.
7
SPEAKER_00
I wonder what the filming of, probably my favorite gambling movie is Casino with Joe Pesci and De Niro.
7
SPEAKER_00
Like when they re out in the desert yelling at each other.
7
SPEAKER_00
I wonder how many takes that is.
7
SPEAKER_00
Like, cause they, I don t know how scripted that is.
7
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it probably is a little bit, but like, I don t think you can script the performance that Joe Pesci does.
7
SPEAKER_01
Don t make a fuck out of me, Ace.
7
SPEAKER_01
Like, I fucking brought you here.
7
SPEAKER_00
He s just like pointing at that energy and they re standing there.
7
SPEAKER_00
And their friendship.
7
SPEAKER_00
And then De Niro s like, that whole thing.
7
SPEAKER_00
And then in the pet, yeah, like that energy.
7
SPEAKER_00
What is that?
7
SPEAKER_00
I mean, they must, they somehow find it together.
7
SPEAKER_02
You could tell me that that was one take, and I d believe you.
7
SPEAKER_00
You could tell me that that was seven takes, and I would believe you.
7
SPEAKER_00
I bet you all the takes had that energy.
7
SPEAKER_00
Like they were playing with it, right?
7
SPEAKER_00
They were playing with that.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I mean, they took on a real personality in those scenes and really carried them forward.
7
SPEAKER_00
I mean, it s just a brilliant, brilliant performance.
7
SPEAKER_00
Doesn t get, like comedies, like mob movies, probably don t get enough credit either.
7
SPEAKER_02
because it s seen as like mob movies don t get enough credit in the oscars i mean like oh yeah yeah yeah because it seems like a trope it s like given a western uh it s got to be a hell of a western or whatever because it s like an old hollywood trope yeah no i
7
SPEAKER_02
That scene is so great, because they re at the height of their friendship in a way, and they re also pretty much about to let go of it and become enemies.
7
SPEAKER_02
And both things are happening at the same time.
7
SPEAKER_02
And Pesci drives them out to the desert.
7
SPEAKER_02
And if I remember correctly,
7
SPEAKER_02
De Niro s character, Rothstein, Rothschild, he says, I gave myself 50-50, whether I m coming back.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it s such a good scene.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s a great scene.
7
SPEAKER_00
Usually my prospects of coming back from the desert would be 90 to 10 or something like that.
7
SPEAKER_00
But no, this time I wasn t sure.
7
SPEAKER_00
And there s the car driving really fast.
7
SPEAKER_00
And then Joe Pesci s like, you motherfucker, you, like whatever he was doing.
7
SPEAKER_00
A Jew, of course there s anti-Semitism or whatever.
7
SPEAKER_00
Or not, between friends.
7
SPEAKER_00
Who gives a shit?
7
SPEAKER_00
All that kind of stuff.
7
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I mean, brilliant, brilliant performances.
7
SPEAKER_00
So yeah, I can understand why you love the art and putting it all out there and it s fun.
7
SPEAKER_00
It s fun.
7
SPEAKER_02
And it s still fun.
7
SPEAKER_02
It s still crazy fun.
7
SPEAKER_02
If I go a while without getting a gig,
7
SPEAKER_02
you know, if I go a minute, then I end up and I work on something, I m like, it s like, oh, I ve been thirsty for this.
7
SPEAKER_02
Like, I actually am really so happy.
7
SPEAKER_02
Even if it s something where it s like,
7
SPEAKER_02
you know, the things where this was a pain in the ass and that or whatever, you re on the road doing something and, you know, anything, whatever, you lost your luggage or whatever the heck you ve got going on in your day-to-day life that everyone brings to work and tries to let go of.
7
SPEAKER_02
Once we re doing the scene, oh man, it s the best.
7
SPEAKER_00
But, you know, that said, you re a great actor, but I just think I speak for a lot of people that you re also, there s a charisma to you that s great to reveal in raw form in different podcasts.
7
SPEAKER_00
Oh, cheers, man.
7
SPEAKER_00
In Doodsy, 10 Minute Pod, just as a guest on podcasts, it s always really fun to
7
SPEAKER_00
watch you.
7
SPEAKER_00
Cheers.
7
SPEAKER_00
The way you have fun, the way you think.
7
SPEAKER_00
The raw, the raw Will Sasso, which is a nice compliment to your kind of acting.
7
SPEAKER_02
That s really sweet.
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, cheers.
7
SPEAKER_02
Well, you know, look, you said, you know, you re making that face.
7
SPEAKER_02
I m making that face.
7
SPEAKER_02
I m making that after the take face.
7
SPEAKER_02
So I love doing stuff off the cuff.
7
SPEAKER_02
That s kind of you to say and I dig.
7
SPEAKER_02
I really do dig doing stuff in front of an audience, because I love seeing, I don t give it to myself very often.
7
SPEAKER_02
If I m doing, even if I m, you know, I ve done a bunch of multi-camera sitcoms and stuff.
7
SPEAKER_02
Mad TV was shot in front of a live studio audience.
7
SPEAKER_02
You like that energy?
7
SPEAKER_02
I love it, but I can only hear them.
7
SPEAKER_02
You can t see them because of the lights, like it is in a lot of performances, and I would imagine
7
SPEAKER_02
With stand-up, you see the first couple rows.
7
SPEAKER_02
I do this character that does stand-up and I used to take him out and do things with him and do little bits here and there.
7
SPEAKER_02
I haven t done it in like four or five years.
7
SPEAKER_00
I think, did Bobby say that character opened up for Bobby?
7
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, but he said, I have to do it as myself too.
7
SPEAKER_02
I think in that podcast, he s like, okay, you re gonna come with me and open for me in Brea, but you have to do it as yourself.
7
SPEAKER_00
Did that ever happen?
7
SPEAKER_02
It did.
7
SPEAKER_02
And I did the character, you know, who s a character I came up with on 10-Minute Podcasts.
7
SPEAKER_02
He s just this comedian, right?
7
SPEAKER_02
He calls himself an open-mic veteran.
8
SPEAKER_01
he s been doing open mics forever.
8
SPEAKER_01
And so I did it, opening up for Bobby, and he s like, you have to do some of it as yourself.
8
SPEAKER_01
So I just kind of did this bit where I would do some of his jokes, and then I would take, you know, silly, I got a fucking wig on, and I take the wig off and I go,
8
SPEAKER_01
And as myself, I start explaining it.
8
SPEAKER_01
Hello, my name is Will.
8
SPEAKER_01
See, the reason that it s funny is because Arnold Schwarzenegger is always, he s in these movies and he s got the thick Austrian accent, but he s like, my name is Ben Williams.
8
SPEAKER_01
I m a cop from Colorado.
8
SPEAKER_01
No, you re not.
8
SPEAKER_01
And it doesn t make sense as the comedian character that I m doing, because that character doesn t do impersonations.
8
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
8
SPEAKER_01
carrying on.
8
SPEAKER_01
And then I put the wig back on and go back into this dumb thing.
8
SPEAKER_01
And I don t think it was very good, but Bobby required it in order for me to open for him.
8
SPEAKER_01
He s like, you re not fucking doing it.
8
SPEAKER_01
So I m not going to get up on stage and not do, we agreed, I ll do it.
8
SPEAKER_01
But having been up there just in, you know, whatever, I ve done it like a dozen fucking times, not a bunch of times, right?
8
SPEAKER_01
Like nothing.
8
SPEAKER_01
And you know, these comedians that go up every night, sometimes two times a night.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s, I do, I will say, I love performing in front of people when I get the chance, but it s,
8
SPEAKER_01
It s a specific thing that I just, I don t know, I gotta go back to this.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s like the providing value, you know?
8
SPEAKER_01
I think great stand-ups are fucking incredible.
8
SPEAKER_01
I ll go, you know, when I ve gone and watched stand-up, you know, there s your friend you re going to see, but then there s this other person who really speaks to you, you know what I mean?
8
SPEAKER_01
And if you like one comedian a night, that s a lot, because,
8
SPEAKER_01
A comedy club is like a fucking crazy restaurant where there s no menu.
8
SPEAKER_01
There s nothing else like that.
8
SPEAKER_01
You don t go to a music place.
8
SPEAKER_01
What do we got here?
8
SPEAKER_01
We got Christian metal, and there s some world music, and then there s a reggae thing, and it s all rammed in together.
8
SPEAKER_01
Or you don t go to a restaurant
8
SPEAKER_01
I d love a nice steak.
8
SPEAKER_01
Cool.
8
SPEAKER_01
First, here s a bowl of Froot Loops, and then we got you a crudité.
8
SPEAKER_01
And then this is our sushi tower.
8
SPEAKER_01
Well, what about the steak?
8
SPEAKER_01
Oh, the steak s coming.
8
SPEAKER_01
And then blah, blah, blah.
8
SPEAKER_01
Oh, no, the steak got bumped.
8
SPEAKER_01
So there s no steak, but here s a fucking shitty store-bought cheesecake.
8
SPEAKER_01
And that s what comedians are up against when they go into a place.
8
SPEAKER_01
It s like, I don t pair well with the poached salmon.
8
SPEAKER_01
I m chicken fingers.
8
SPEAKER_01
I already am chicken fingers.
8
SPEAKER_01
You know, these great comedians that are able to go up on a night where poached salmon goes up, and then it s like, fuck, you are also spicy?
8
SPEAKER_01
I got some kick to me.
8
SPEAKER_00
even going to open mics, it could be a wonderful escape.
8
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
8
SPEAKER_00
I mean, just laughing, laughing together with others, it can make you, I don t know, it just feels really good.
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SPEAKER_01
Well, and we ve done like, you know, like, and I hope to do it with Doodsy, but like live podcasts are fun in front of groups of people.
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And, you know, you talk to them afterwards and take some pictures and man, they are,
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They forgot what the fuck they got going on.
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And a lot of them gotta go back to work the next day.
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It s a Wednesday or Thursday, you know?
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No, it s a lot of value.
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I m fortunate enough to be busy doing my own bullshit.
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What s the meaning of life, Will Sasso?
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What is the meaning of life?
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Why are we here?
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Why, why, why?
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Was it The Meaning of Life?
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Didn t they explain it at the end of Meaning of Life?
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I think it was Michael Palin that said, try to get a walk in, be nice to neighbors, eat enough fiber.
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Wasn t that the- Fiber?
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Fiber s part of it?
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Yeah, I think it s- Nutrition.
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Have a bowl of bran in the morning and don t take yourself too seriously.
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Yeah.
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No, well, no one gets out alive, I think is the-
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Herman Hesse, one of my favorite writers, he s a Nobel Prize winner, in a book called Steppenwolf, says, learn what is to be taken seriously and laugh at the rest.
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What s the percentage distribution on that?
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So how much of life should you take seriously?
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And then how much do you just laugh at?
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Oh man, if you can laugh at everything, you re winning.
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Yeah.
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But that s almost impossible.
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I think that there s, and also it could be quite irresponsible to do that.
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I take things, I take a lot of things way too seriously.
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I know that.
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I do, I do, I really do.
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People will be in part surprised by that, but I think that radiates from you.
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Really?
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Yeah, I do, I do.
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I take things way too fucking seriously sometimes.
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You gotta loosen the neck a little.
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But no, I think that s really good.
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That s really good stuff.
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I don t know what the percentage is to have a good life or a happy, healthy life, but
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you know.
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For me, the meaning of life is getting to live it as long as you hope to.
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That s nice.
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And when you lose someone, or perhaps you re faced with your own mortality, I think that puts that into perspective.
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And
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But I, you know, get lots of fiber, get lots of fiber, be nice to everybody.
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And yeah, don t take things too seriously is a good, it s a good one.
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Our minds are fucking big, weird.
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It s a big, weird, shitty fucking bucket of shit that s trying to get you to think horrible shit about yourself all the time.
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Yeah, shitty bucket of shit.
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Shitty bucket of shit.
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I think there s a book I never read, but I read the title, and it s good words to live by, which is Don t Sweat the Small Stuff, and it s all small stuff.
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That s another way.
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Was that Dr. Phil?
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Wasn t Dr. Phil.
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I don t know, but I think the conclusion also has fiber.
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as part of it.
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I think that all ties it together.
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And in the end, of course, just put love out there in the world.
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I think that s a pretty good way.
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What would you say is the meaning of life?
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Put love out in the world?
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I would say love.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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It s a long conversation on what that really means.
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But I m sure robots are involved.
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Yeah.
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Well, let me tell you, I feel a little safer knowing that someone who has a hand in
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bringing these robots to the masses, as you do, has that opinion of love and how important it is.
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I think that s great because otherwise it s gonna be that fucking scene from T2 where Linda Hamilton s holding onto the fence and getting all of her flesh blown off of her skeleton before the rest of her is wiped away, because this Skynet shit.
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Anyway, I m just terrified of Doodsy all the time.
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That s why I think that they will,
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Dudesy in the wrong hands can do a lot of damage.
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That s why Chad and I need to do our best to control it.
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We need to travel back in time and murder Chad.
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I think that s the only way.
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It s been said.
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I don t know why you need to travel back in time.
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You could murder him today, but I think he ll be very suspicious.
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My nefarious plans for Chad involve going back to tomorrow and planning for yesterday, and then hopefully Doodzie will give me the answer there with what it is to do with Chad s frozen body.
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If I got to drive it out to, if I got to take my,
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You know, if I got to get a hold of one of those Tesla mom vans and shove my garage freezer in it and plug it in and shove Chad in there and drive out to Arizona and deliver him under a mountain or wherever the fuck this place is, and say, here s this dog tag.
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What does this get me?
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And I m like, ah, it s going to be $300.
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Do you take Amex?
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No.
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And I d be like, ah, shit.
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And I ll just dump him somewhere, Breaking Bad style.
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Well, I would like to thank you and the, what is it, the Canadian International Agency Apparel.
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Canadian International Apparel.
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I can t wait for the sneakers from Doodsy.
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I can t wait for all the podcasts that AI can, and all the trouble it can get you in.
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So I m a huge fan of yours.
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It s a huge honor that you would talk with me today.
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Well, this has been amazing.
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Cheers, pal.
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Likewise.
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And I m happy to be here, man.
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Cheers.
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Bam.
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Three hours.
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Holy fuck, what?
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Thanks for listening to this conversation with Will Sasso.
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To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description.
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And now let me leave you with some words from John Candy, one of Will s favorite actors.
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I think I may have become an actor to hide from myself.
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You can escape into a character.
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Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time.