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SPEAKER_01
Hello.
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SPEAKER_01
Hi.
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Okay, this is our last episode of the year.
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SPEAKER_01
No.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
I feel sad.
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SPEAKER_01
I know, but we re not taking much time off.
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You re right.
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It s just a week.
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But it feels major.
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It s the last one of 2023.
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Yeah, it s so exciting.
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We started this this year, and we re, how many, like, we re like 21 or two episodes in.
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Okay.
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And it s fun.
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It feels like none of all, none of all.
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SPEAKER_00
It sounds like none, it feels like a lot of time has passed and no time has passed at the same time.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, per-uge.
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Create new way.
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How are you feeling about the holiday?
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SPEAKER_00
I feel this year I would like to just skip it.
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I m having those vibes.
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I m sure a lot of people feel—I mean, Christmas is notori—well, holidays are notoriously a time of depression.
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It brings up a lot.
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It s kind of like birthdays, but particularly with the holidays, it s this pressure to feel very happy.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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Very jolly and feel good about your family, feel good about yourself.
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SPEAKER_00
Sure.
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Your relationships, right?
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Like everything.
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And is it gonna— No, it s good.
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I mean, I m probably ready.
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Okay.
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So fast.
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Oh my God.
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Is it clean?
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SPEAKER_01
There s some down there.
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They should be clean.
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Do you see any?
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So, hard pivot.
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Hard pivot.
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We stopped to make tea.
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Yeah, we had to make tea, and then we started talking about stuff.
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Stuff.
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And now we have to discuss.
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So, we went and got coffee the other day.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
We went to work at a coffee shop.
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SPEAKER_01
Yes, that s true.
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Because I do want to be clear, it s not that we went just for coffee, because that would have been more absurd.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, okay.
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SPEAKER_00
I see.
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SPEAKER_01
Got it.
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I mean, okay.
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I still think it s funny though.
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SPEAKER_00
Okay.
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So you had coffee already?
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Is that what you re saying?
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I probably had already had a tea that morning, but I had to order something.
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Because you brought your own bagel too.
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Yeah.
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So that s why.
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You have to make up for it.
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Okay.
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So you re taking seats and then I go, okay, I ll go get us coffees.
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What do you want?
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And then you said they have this blueberry thing.
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Yeah.
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I don t know what it is, but if they say vanilla, you say yes.
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Yeah.
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Add vanilla.
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Add vanilla if they ask you.
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Yes.
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And then I was really nervous, but then when he asked me about the vanilla, then I knew I d passed the test.
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That s right.
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I d ordered the right thing.
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And then I brought it back to you—or he asked me the size, and I was like, the largest one you have.
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Which I feel like is what you re supposed to do when you re ordering.
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Not for yourself, but if you re ordering for someone and they didn t tell you the size, you get the biggest one.
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SPEAKER_00
That s fair.
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SPEAKER_00
I should have specified the size.
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SPEAKER_00
No, but I brought it back.
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And then we were there for a few hours.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, like three.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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It s an outside area.
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Everyone s doing work there.
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It s like, that s the vibe.
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Computer work.
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Were people doing work?
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Oh God, yeah.
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That whole place is full of people on their computers.
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SPEAKER_00
Okay.
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I was immersed.
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I didn t notice.
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Okay.
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So then, and then we finish up.
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Is it bad?
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SPEAKER_00
Is it bad?
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Oh my God.
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SPEAKER_00
What s in there?
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SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
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SPEAKER_01
There s all this debris.
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From the tea?
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SPEAKER_01
From my tea?
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SPEAKER_01
Oh, maybe it s from the tea.
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SPEAKER_01
Oh, that s fine.
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SPEAKER_01
Because I put the tea bag in there.
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I m just worried it s dip.
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SPEAKER_01
Well, there s dip all over this place, because Dax dips.
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So I m just going to pour it out just in case.
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SPEAKER_01
I can t drink dip.
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SPEAKER_01
It s not your fault.
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SPEAKER_00
I m going to redo it.
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SPEAKER_01
Okay, I ll do it.
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SPEAKER_00
No, no, no, no.
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SPEAKER_00
Well, there should still be water in there.
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Gross.
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Debris.
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It s probably tea, but I can t risk it.
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SPEAKER_00
No, you can t.
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Okay, I m back.
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Second tea.
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So much is happening.
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So much.
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Okay.
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Wow.
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Actually, Pin, okay?
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Do you think it s weird?
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So I drink hot water.
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I drink just plain hot water.
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I know, I know.
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I m so impressed by anyone who continues to listen.
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It s just so out of the place.
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Anyway, do you think it s weird that I drink hot water?
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SPEAKER_00
I don t.
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Okay.
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Because I am cold all the time.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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And I prefer hot water.
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Like there are times where I don t hydrate myself because I m like, I don t want to drink cold water.
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SPEAKER_00
Same.
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And so I think hot water is- Even lukewarm.
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It goes hot, lukewarm,
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Cold.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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Cold water is… Unless I m coming back from like a very strenuous hike or like sauna… But even then… I don t… Oh yeah.
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Sauna… Yes.
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You re right.
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That… But even then like… It s not my preference.
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And apparently, okay, so my friend Kat was on a date with this guy many years ago, and he refused to drink cold water on the date.
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And he kept bringing back the water.
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I know, and- Like returning the water?
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, returning the water.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
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And then he told her about how cold water is bad for you, and then lukewarm is what you re supposed to drink, and then he returned the water.
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And he was hot and nice, but she was like, I can t do this.
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SPEAKER_00
I can t.
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SPEAKER_00
That s a deal breaker.
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Returning water.
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SPEAKER_00
Returning water is the perfect- Also, just let it sit
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for a sec, it will get warm.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s a good point.
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SPEAKER_00
It feels like there might be other issues.
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SPEAKER_00
Controlling.
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SPEAKER_00
Yes, if you re doing that, which, you know, is the big thing.
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Everyone needs it in a way.
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SPEAKER_00
Well, we all want it.
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SPEAKER_00
We all want it, but it comes out in different ways for different people.
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Okay, so back to the blueberry.
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SPEAKER_00
Okay, so you ordered it for me.
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It was really sweet.
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SPEAKER_00
I ordered it.
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And then, as we know, you don t drink full drinks.
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And you have a history of drinking half of it over the course of many hours.
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By the time I ve drank like three, because I m a quick drinker.
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You re a slow drinker.
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And I ve never, I don t think in my life, ever thrown away a half drink drink.
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that I purchased.
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I don t think I would be like physically able to do that.
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But is that because a waste thing?
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Or I spent money so I have to?
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SPEAKER_00
Maybe.
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But there s some cost.
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It s like already been spent.
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If I don t like it, that s different.
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SPEAKER_00
Okay.
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But I have trouble not finishing things.
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Not just drinks, actually.
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Like food.
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And I eat it or I drink it quickly.
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I ve seen evidence to the contrary with food.
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SPEAKER_00
Well, at that coffee shop, that day, actually, I was thinking about it, because I was like, I didn t finish.
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Because I bought two pastries, and I wasn t going to eat two.
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So I ate half of each.
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But also, Easter egg pin, we are going to talk about your chicken.
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That s a different story, obviously.
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But even like, when we go to dinner, I m never like, wow, Liz eats all her food.
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Like, you don t.
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I do.
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You just don t notice.
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Because I think, wow, Monica doesn t finish her food.
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SPEAKER_00
No, I eat a lot of my food.
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SPEAKER_00
Remember we went to Little Dimes?
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We quote-unquote got the artichoke, and I ate the entire choke.
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SPEAKER_00
Well, you got the artichoke.
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And I said, will you split it with me?
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SPEAKER_01
No, you said, will you have some?
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And I said, I ll have some.
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You had one leaf.
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I know, because I didn t want the artichoke.
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I wanted you to get it.
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So I was like, sure, I ll eat one.
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But I ate the whole, that s a large, anyway.
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SPEAKER_00
I feel that I ate a whole pasta.
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SPEAKER_00
I also ate a pasta.
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SPEAKER_00
You didn t finish it.
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SPEAKER_00
I did.
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SPEAKER_00
Always gluten-free was bad.
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SPEAKER_00
I m sorry.
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SPEAKER_00
No hate, but I m trying the gluten-free lifestyle, and it s not the same.
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SPEAKER_00
So I ate three quarters of it.
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SPEAKER_00
But typically, if it was gluten, I would eat the whole— I d never, ever order pasta and not finish every bite.
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SPEAKER_00
How can you?
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SPEAKER_00
It s so good.
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SPEAKER_00
Okay, so that day with the drink, we gather our things, get ready to go, and I m going to throw out all my papers and stuff, and I m like, oh, I ll take yours, and then your drink is full.
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SPEAKER_00
It s the same, maybe one sip has been taking it, and it s much warmer than it was three hours ago, because it was a cold drink.
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SPEAKER_00
It was an ice.
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SPEAKER_00
It was an ice, and now it was a lukewarm coffee.
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SPEAKER_00
I drank one seventh of it.
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SPEAKER_00
Don t you think that s fair?
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SPEAKER_01
It was huge.
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SPEAKER_01
That s a big ass iced blueberry coffee.
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SPEAKER_01
It was like a soft drink.
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SPEAKER_01
Like a 7-Eleven big gulp.
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SPEAKER_01
Yes, not as big as a big gulp, but still.
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SPEAKER_01
Anyway, it was a huge drink, and I drank, I would say, one seventh of it, which is
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SPEAKER_01
normal for me for that drink because it s very sweet.
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SPEAKER_01
Okay.
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I like it a lot, which is why I get it.
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SPEAKER_01
I like to take little sips.
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SPEAKER_01
It s a treat.
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But I couldn t drink the whole thing.
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SPEAKER_01
It would be way too sweet.
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SPEAKER_01
Wow.
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SPEAKER_01
Now, I have a tangential question.
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Did you feel like it was offensive a little bit?
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SPEAKER_00
Because you bought me the coffee.
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SPEAKER_00
No, no, no, no, no.
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SPEAKER_00
Are you sure?
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SPEAKER_00
That s not what went through my head.
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SPEAKER_00
If I pay for it, it does go through my head.
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SPEAKER_00
Right.
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Because then I m like, you bought this and you re not drinking it and you re wasting your money.
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SPEAKER_00
But that s different.
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It doesn t count.
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SPEAKER_00
I mean, if it was a $500 drink and you—
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SPEAKER_00
just drink one sip and turn it back, I d be like... But I didn t really... I wonder if guys think about that on dates.
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SPEAKER_00
Well, not that women don t also pick up dates.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, we don t have to gender everything.
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SPEAKER_00
We don t, but... It s so hot, my water.
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SPEAKER_00
Is it?
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SPEAKER_00
And then he pays, and you don t like the thing, and you don t eat.
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If you have one drink, do guys feel offended?
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Or girls?
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Like, I don t want to gender it, because then we re like making it so hetero.
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Are they offended?
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I don t know.
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I m not.
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I haven t thought about this.
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I don t, it s because I don t live my life like that.
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I m pretty wasteful.
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SPEAKER_01
I m very wasteful, actually.
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I want that to be a New Year s resolution, but the other thing is- I do wish we had cameras.
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SPEAKER_00
That is a New Year s resolution in like immediate ground.
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SPEAKER_00
But I can t.
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And the reason I can t is because I do prioritize other things over that.
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One, I m not gonna choose discomfort over weight.
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So I m not gonna drink that whole thing not to be wasteful when I ll feel sick at the end of it.
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But I still wanna be able to indulge the way I want to, and so I do.
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Maybe that s bad, but it is the way I go about life.
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I feel fine having a small amount of a thing and then being done with it.
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Yeah.
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I can hear the comments of people being like, I m so entitled or whatever.
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Or like, I don t care about money.
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But I m really happy that I live like that, because I m pretty good at moderation.
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And I think that s why.
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I m not so stressed out about the choice, because I don t have to finish it.
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Do you know what I mean?
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I also feel that you re not like, like I ve been around people who, I don t even know if wasteful is really the term, but they, it s, is it opulent?
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SPEAKER_00
Or like, just, you know, who buy a lot and it doesn t matter if it, like, I remember, whatever, I was on this date, this was so many years ago.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, we ve ate, and then— And he was very much like this, like a very showy, or he needs to do big things and grand gestures and spend and— But he was also very sweet, and that wasn t his whole personality, but that s definitely how he like showed affection.
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So anyway, whatever, we have food, and then he s like, let s have dessert.
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And I was like, oh my god, I m so full.
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I can t.
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And he s like, okay, if you could just have one bite of any dessert, which one would it be?
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And then I named like three, like this one looks kind of good and like this one.
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SPEAKER_00
But then I was like, no, but I m not just gonna have one bite.
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SPEAKER_00
That s silly.
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SPEAKER_00
And then he ordered all three to have one bite.
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And to me, that is… Crazy.
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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I feel… Well, not crazy.
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SPEAKER_00
Obviously, you can do whatever you want, but that s wrong to me.
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SPEAKER_00
That s like, you don t care.
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SPEAKER_01
Is it like…
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Because when our parents would say they re starving children, that s what s wrong with it?
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SPEAKER_01
What s actually wrong with it?
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SPEAKER_01
I want to break it down.
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SPEAKER_00
Let s break it down.
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SPEAKER_00
My parents wouldn t be the starving children in Africa people.
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SPEAKER_00
Those were the lunch ladies would say that to us.
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SPEAKER_00
But my parents, and they still are like this.
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I am to them.
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SPEAKER_00
a wasteful New Yorker to go cups for my coffee, and to them, that s outrageous.
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SPEAKER_00
My family, I think it s a core value, and it goes beyond probably what you can imagine.
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SPEAKER_00
I mean, my dad was composting in the 90s.
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SPEAKER_00
If I threw out an eggshell in the garbage, I would get yelled at.
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SPEAKER_00
And if I answered anything like, it s gross, I don t want to put it out, or I don t want to, you know, I forgot.
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SPEAKER_00
It s like, I was told I was, you know,
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
What are they saying?
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SPEAKER_01
Because they re not saying frozen children.
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SPEAKER_01
In Arendelle.
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SPEAKER_01
If they re not saying hungry children, when they say you re bad, what is it connected to?
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SPEAKER_00
Commercialism.
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SPEAKER_00
Or sorry, it s a French word.
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SPEAKER_00
It s like material.
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SPEAKER_00
materialism.
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SPEAKER_00
But an eggshell is not materialism.
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SPEAKER_00
I think I m better than everyone else, that everyone else has a role in making sure that the planet sticks around for as long as possible, and to take care of our environment, and take care of our things and each other.
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SPEAKER_00
It s very individualist, I think, to them, or very selfish.
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And I think there s an element, this is a part that does, for me, ring true.
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When I get something that I feel is expensive,
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or that I m splurging, I do feel that because I feel that there are so many people who have so little.
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SPEAKER_00
Then I ll start doing the math of like, well, if I hadn t bought this pair of shoes, I could have given it to someone that could have made a bigger difference in their life than the shoes made in my life.
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SPEAKER_00
My parents don t really do that, but that s probably comes from something.
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SPEAKER_01
So when he orders the three desserts.
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Yeah.
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And you re like, that s wrong.
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SPEAKER_00
What s wrong about it is that we are living in a country where many children literally don t even have like breakfast in the morning.
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SPEAKER_00
So we re going to order three expensive desserts so that we can have one bite.
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SPEAKER_00
The personal gratification of that action is worth the waste.
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SPEAKER_00
Well, I know what you re going to say.
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SPEAKER_00
You re going to say, are those three desserts going to go to that homeless person?
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SPEAKER_00
Are they, you know?
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s exactly right.
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SPEAKER_01
You re pairing it as an either or and it s not.
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SPEAKER_01
But it is.
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SPEAKER_00
How?
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I think that the fact that we don t see our actions as connected to other people is the reason why we continue to live the way that we do and live in such inequality that we do.
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if we were able to see our actions as more connected, we wouldn t think, well, the homeless, because yeah, there s so many steps to the homeless person getting a house, being able to get into the restaurant, being able to get the dessert.
1
SPEAKER_00
But the reason why that person can t get into the restaurant is partially because of the rampant inequality that puts me in a situation where I can order three desserts and I m fine, and someone can t even get one meal.
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SPEAKER_01
Yes, I hear what you re saying, but there s not a situation where you not getting the dessert
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SPEAKER_01
I mean, there is a situation.
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If you had $100 only, and you were like, okay, I could give some of this away, or I could buy three desserts, and then you chose three desserts, in that case, of course, there s a finite amount.
1
SPEAKER_01
But my guess is, I don t know who this person is who ordered the three desserts, but if they re a generous person, they probably are giving away also money.
1
SPEAKER_01
Well, I don t know what they re doing, whatever.
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SPEAKER_01
Let s say that person you knew gave a ton of money away or did a lot of philanthropic stuff.
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SPEAKER_00
Would you be okay with it?
1
SPEAKER_00
I think that that would clash with his values.
1
SPEAKER_00
I would think, so you do value equality, but your actions aren t in alignment.
1
SPEAKER_01
Equality doesn t necessarily mean everyone has... Well, I mean, maybe to you it does.
1
SPEAKER_01
To me, it doesn t.
1
SPEAKER_01
To me, equality of opportunity is different than equality of stuff.
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t think we re ever going to live in a world where every single person has the exact same amount of stuff and the exact same amount of money.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I just don t think that s...
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, I don t want, I don t necessarily even think I want everyone to have the same.
1
SPEAKER_00
And again, I m very imperfect at this life philosophy, and that s why I end up feeling mostly guilty all the time.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I just think we should have a lower tolerance for the amount of rampant inequality that we witness and exist in all the time.
1
SPEAKER_00
That s actually the thing.
1
SPEAKER_00
I feel bothered by it.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I guess, yeah, me feeling bothered by it, you could argue, like, doesn t do anything.
1
SPEAKER_00
But I think if more people were, more things would be done.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think that we do tolerate a certain level of it.
1
SPEAKER_00
We just accept that that s just the way that things are.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I can t.
1
SPEAKER_00
When you think about just how we just opened the tap, we just wasted water.
1
SPEAKER_00
I know.
1
SPEAKER_00
And there are people just can t, like, do you ever think about, like, that boggles my mind.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, we just did a fact check where we were looking at deaths by diarrhea.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s so high.
1
SPEAKER_01
Of course, not in this country, but in other countries where they don t have clean water, which is a lot, but it s like, I think 1.7 million deaths.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s startling.
1
SPEAKER_01
But me feeling guilty doesn t change it.
1
SPEAKER_01
You can contribute stuff to change a thing, but
1
SPEAKER_00
The guilt will not do it.
1
SPEAKER_00
If the eight guys who have 90% of the money right now felt more guilty, we wouldn t have the level of inequality that we have.
1
SPEAKER_00
I don t know that that s fair or true.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s like Bill Gates is, he has so many initiatives to literally figure out diarrhea.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like when you watch his talk, it s impossible not to laugh at the amount of times he says diarrhea.
1
SPEAKER_01
People are putting money towards it.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s not a quick fix.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s not like, because we don t have diarrhea, they won t have it if we just do some money.
1
SPEAKER_01
Like, it s a different, fully different infrastructure.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think it s a little, what s the word?
1
SPEAKER_01
I feel like it s a little, do you think it s simplistic?
1
SPEAKER_01
I don t know that it s simplistic, but this is gonna sound really bad, and I don t think it s the right word, but there s something a little bit self-indulgent about constantly living in the world is bad, because you re just walking around like, the world is bad, and it s upsetting, and it s upsetting me, and I m upset.
1
SPEAKER_01
It almost becomes about, not you, Liz, but this in general, this like, again, kind of like, if we re making it race, like white tears a little bit.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s like, that s not,
1
SPEAKER_01
helping anything.
1
SPEAKER_01
There are things to do that can help, but you crying about it is actually not the thing.
1
SPEAKER_01
And that is sort of how I feel about a lot of things.
1
SPEAKER_01
Isn t the Three Desserts literally not an action?
1
SPEAKER_01
Because I m not saying- But it s not an action.
2
SPEAKER_00
that has a direct consequence.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re saying it s a frame of mind.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, the three desserts is like on the scale of actions that you re taking in your daily life might be, yeah, a sort of smaller action.
2
SPEAKER_00
But if that s paired, if that s, I m not saying just be sad and then order three desserts and waste all your money and be like, oh my God, so sad that the world is unequal.
2
SPEAKER_00
But if you re taking many actions in order to try and at least correct that inequality, I think that that
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t think that that s self-indulgent.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think it s noticing something that s making you uncomfortable and something that you don t like and trying to change it.
2
SPEAKER_00
I ll get really upset because I don t feel like I can really make a difference.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think the three desserts makes me feel like at least…
2
SPEAKER_00
There s something I can, yeah, I can t march over to Congress and make them change tax laws and get rid of all the lobbyists and the people who really actually run our government.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I can do things in my daily life that at least, I think it s that, you know?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I do understand it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I just think, I worry a little bit that if you ask people not to indulge in their own life because of other people framing it as
2
SPEAKER_01
an either or I don t think is smart.
2
SPEAKER_01
People will pick themselves every time.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so if you say it s not either or, you can have three desserts and you can help give, pay attention to what s going on, vote for the things that make everything more equal.
2
SPEAKER_01
If there s a prop that says,
2
SPEAKER_01
You can only order one dessert at dinner, and that means the extra desserts are gonna go to unhouse people.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes, vote for that.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I think telling people that things that make them feel good or happy or splurge comes at a cost, I just don t think it s helpful.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Because they won t.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then they ll be like, fuck that.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m not looking at that ever.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t care.
2
SPEAKER_01
I work hard.
2
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I this, this, this, this, this.
2
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Depends.
2
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I mean, we re humans.
2
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Like, we do that.
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Of course.
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It s so good for holiday shopping, because again, you want to get the really fancy, luxurious things, but you re saving so much money so you can buy.
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What I m seeing is a lot of similar to what you re talking about, which is a lot of people who are upset and annoyed with the state of the world.
2
SPEAKER_00
And my impulse is to try and help people see that they can be part of the solution.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I m not telling people like, don t spar, like don t
2
SPEAKER_00
You know, take away basic things that you need and want.
2
SPEAKER_00
But yeah, like, I mean, this is something I think about all the time, because I struggle with it a lot.
2
SPEAKER_00
And if I struggle with it, I, you know, often what you struggle with is often what, you know, other people are struggling too.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I m like, there s just so much to be upset about.
2
SPEAKER_00
And you don t want people to disengage, whether it s with spending or even politically, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
And just be like, well, then I won t vote and I won t, you know.
2
SPEAKER_00
But yeah, how do you manage?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I feel like it s emotional.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s like management of an emotion.
2
SPEAKER_01
It is.
2
SPEAKER_01
I do think anytime there s even a remote strand of shame, people can t handle it.
2
SPEAKER_01
People cannot handle feeling shame.
2
SPEAKER_01
So every time that gets injected in a conversation, you ve lost.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s over, you re done.
2
SPEAKER_01
And so I just think practically, it s just not a...
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and when you don t see the effects of your actions, I think that that s also the frustrating thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, I feel that we ve been with like recycling.
2
SPEAKER_00
And sometimes I ll feel it in myself.
2
SPEAKER_00
I ll be like, whatever.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like, I won t recycle this thing because like, what s the point?
2
SPEAKER_00
And that s when I go, Oh, no, this is, you know, not only may not recycle, but then I m like hopeless.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I think nothing matters.
2
SPEAKER_00
But also, I don t kind of blame people.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, also though, when you do start doing research on all of this stuff, it gets really fucked up.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then you are like, does anything matter?
2
SPEAKER_01
Because actually, yeah, it s true that that bottle is not getting recycled the way you think it is.
2
SPEAKER_01
When we had Trevor Noah on Armchair, he said something, he was like,
2
SPEAKER_01
people get blamed for things like not recycling or not, or like the way they engage on social media.
2
SPEAKER_01
And he was like, it s the institutions that we have to blame and hold accountable and like vote in a way that creates more accountability there because
2
SPEAKER_01
We can t be like, you re bad because you didn t recycle.
2
SPEAKER_01
No, it s a problem with our systems that are making a person in charge of this, and then it is not getting recycled.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
I don t know.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s complicated.
2
SPEAKER_01
We started at Blueberry.
2
SPEAKER_00
I know.
2
SPEAKER_00
We went—and just after saying like, this is—
2
SPEAKER_00
Just talking about nothing we get into the most.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s what we do.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s what we do.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s what we do.
2
SPEAKER_00
We should go back to blueberry vanilla coffees.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
I mean, but look at where we got from there.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s right.
2
SPEAKER_00
We went light, we went deep.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay, wait.
2
SPEAKER_00
What did I have a pin in?
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God, your chicken.
2
SPEAKER_01
Chicken.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_01
Tell everyone about your chicken.
2
SPEAKER_00
We went to- Craig s.
2
SPEAKER_00
Craig s.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that day my doctor broke the news to me that I have to start eating meat or else I m gonna die.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re not getting enough protein.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m not.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
All I eat is soy.
2
SPEAKER_00
All I eat is tofu.
2
SPEAKER_00
And apparently I m like allergic to it.
2
SPEAKER_00
I have to eat meat.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s really hard, but I did it with you because we can do hard things.
2
SPEAKER_00
We always do hard things together.
2
SPEAKER_00
True.
2
SPEAKER_00
We had a great waitress who helped us out with a lot of— She was so good and helpful.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, she gave us a lot of options, and we landed on the whole chicken, which feels counter maybe to things, but I did eat Charlie s chicken at Fourth of July, and so that made me think maybe chicken is something I can get into.
2
SPEAKER_00
And there were a lot of fries.
2
SPEAKER_00
We asked for mayo, and I ate—
2
SPEAKER_00
You ate a really small amount, but you did eat some.
2
SPEAKER_01
I did.
2
SPEAKER_01
I got it down, and you helped me through it.
2
SPEAKER_01
And have there been more encounters with meat since?
2
SPEAKER_01
So, okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
First of all, I brought home the chicken, and I cut in little pieces to put it into stuff.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then I did put it into a salad, but I— It s like I m a toddler.
2
SPEAKER_00
Or not a toddler, but you know when you re a kid, and like, you have to finish your whatever, and you—
2
SPEAKER_00
It s like death.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s what it feels like.
2
SPEAKER_00
So keeping it down and swallowing, like I have to like pinch my nose and sing a song.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s really bad.
2
SPEAKER_00
But then I ordered pizza and I was like, I m going to order chicken on the pizza.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m going to try that because I love pizza.
2
SPEAKER_00
But you also don t eat cheese.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t, but they had vegan cheese.
2
SPEAKER_00
They had gluten-free.
2
SPEAKER_00
I thought you just didn t like cheese.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t like cheese, but I also can t eat dairy.
2
SPEAKER_01
Right, but before even that dairy thing, you didn t eat cheese.
2
SPEAKER_00
I know.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s just, I wish I, I m so picky.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I ordered pizza, and then it came and I was eating a few bites and I was like, okay, I can do this.
2
SPEAKER_00
But then I started realizing that under the tomatoes, there was pepperoni that I didn t anticipate.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so then I got really, it s definitely mental.
2
SPEAKER_00
Like it s definitely mental.
3
SPEAKER_01
very nauseous.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so I gave the rest to my roommate.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then I couldn t really eat any more of the pizza.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_01
I googled, can I eat meat without chewing it?
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, will I still get the nutrients?
3
SPEAKER_01
And you don t.
3
SPEAKER_01
Or it s just not.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then I thought I could blend it, make some sort of drinking.
3
SPEAKER_01
I wish I could drink meat.
3
SPEAKER_01
I wish there was like a pill.
3
SPEAKER_01
Can you do like animal protein powder?
3
SPEAKER_01
I m doing one of those bovine thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like that was one of the things my doctor
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, but also you can just get animal whey protein powder.
3
SPEAKER_01
That has dairy.
3
SPEAKER_00
Whey?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
Hmm.
3
SPEAKER_00
Maybe.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I m working on it.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m working on my meat.
3
SPEAKER_01
Stay tuned.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, you re going to keep at it.
3
SPEAKER_01
There s a meal in Quebec called hot chicken.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s hot chicken, but we say it that way.
3
SPEAKER_01
Hot chicken?
3
SPEAKER_01
Or a chicken.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that I feel could be my gateway.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s two pieces of bread, a bunch of old, like leftover chicken slapped together and just pile of gravy and green peas on top of it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, is it hot?
3
SPEAKER_00
It is hot.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, hot chicken.
3
SPEAKER_00
Right.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like just spiced.
3
SPEAKER_00
No, is it hot?
3
SPEAKER_01
You mean hot temperature wise?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, it s like a hot chicken sandwich with a bunch of like dripping and gravy.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, gravy has gluten.
3
Fuck.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, the other thing is, I mean, I know like you have.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, no, it s rough around here.
3
SPEAKER_01
I wake up in the mornings, and I have nothing to look forward to.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m like, exactly, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like when we had Emily Oster on Race to 35, and we were like, we can t do anything while we re doing this egg freezing.
3
SPEAKER_00
And she was like, well, yeah, you have to do a cost-benefit analysis.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, having one glass of wine might have a teeny bit of an effect.
3
SPEAKER_00
She was like, but it probably won t.
3
SPEAKER_00
It could, but if it s reducing your stress or if you have so much stress around not having it, you re doing way worse.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s right.
3
SPEAKER_00
So this diet stuff is tricky because you re also just so stressed about the diet.
3
SPEAKER_00
I am.
3
SPEAKER_00
None of this can work or it can help.
3
SPEAKER_01
I wish there was a drink that...
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, like in the, this is how men think, which I never related to until this moment.
3
SPEAKER_01
So many men, food doesn t mean anything to them.
3
SPEAKER_01
They re like, I wish I could just take a pill and not eat.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, have you had guys tell you that?
3
SPEAKER_01
I haven t had so many men tell me this.
3
SPEAKER_01
It blows my mind every time, because I m like, food is the best part of the day.
3
SPEAKER_01
Once you re finished your meal, you re already thinking, planning for your next one, and that s what gets you through the day.
3
SPEAKER_01
But no, a lot of men just see it as like a thing they just have to do, or like a fully non-pleasurable activity.
3
SPEAKER_01
I ve now migrated to that camp.
3
SPEAKER_01
I wish there was just something so that I didn t have to think about it.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because when you have a lot of health issues, I m sure so many people who are listening do, it becomes a math calculation every time, and especially if you re not at home.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I m working through it, and hot chicken, I ll find gluten-free bread, I ll find gluten-free gravy, and I ll just eat that for the rest of my life.
3
SPEAKER_01
That was my 14-year-old self-dream.
3
SPEAKER_01
That sounds good.
3
SPEAKER_01
Sounds yummy.
3
SPEAKER_00
We have hot chicken here, but it s hot, flavored, it s spicy.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, hot chicken.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like it s a— Yeah, it s a thing.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, you can get Nashville hot chicken at places.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s a thing to get hot chicken.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, it s not a sandwich.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s not a sandwich.
3
SPEAKER_00
You can get it on a sandwich.
3
SPEAKER_00
The whole point— It s not hot temperature-wise.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s hot spicy.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t know why we call it.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, whoever, you know.
3
SPEAKER_01
Sounds good, though.
3
SPEAKER_01
It is yummy.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s a classic.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay, so let s do a couple questions.
3
SPEAKER_00
Last couple of questions of 2023.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, let s make it count.
3
SPEAKER_00
70 year old lonely man wants to be my friend.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m 21.
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, I love this already.
3
SPEAKER_00
This is from Callie.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ve been working at a cafe for almost two years and have developed relationships with many regulars.
3
SPEAKER_00
One in particular is a 70-ish year old man who is very lonely.
3
SPEAKER_00
I know he lives alone and doesn t have any family or seem to have friends.
3
SPEAKER_00
He s completely just a sweet, innocent old man.
3
SPEAKER_00
When I started serving at a different restaurant, I told all my regulars to come visit me.
3
SPEAKER_00
But when this particular regular came in, we started to chat and he asked if I would like to do something together.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I didn t know what to say, so I gave him my number. 
3
SPEAKER_00
Such a Liz thing to do.
3
SPEAKER_00
I immediately felt a shift after crossing this boundary, and I felt uncomfortable.
3
SPEAKER_00
Even though I m 99% sure there s nothing sexual about the relationship, he knows I m in a relationship.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t know what to do because my heart wrenches for him, and thinking about hurting his feelings makes me nauseous, but my gut also feels weird about starting a personal relationship.
3
SPEAKER_00
Help, I need the Sync Squad s guidance. 
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, no.
3
SPEAKER_00
I relate to this so hard.
3
SPEAKER_01
I gave another person my phone number after fucking four minutes.
3
SPEAKER_00
What do you mean?
3
SPEAKER_01
I went to Trader Joe s to get stuff, and this lady started talking to me.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s not men, it s always ladies.
3
SPEAKER_01
What did she talk about?
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t want to talk about it.
3
SPEAKER_01
You have to!
3
SPEAKER_01
And cut this out, because people are going to think I m nuts.
3
SPEAKER_01
get immersed in the moment.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I think like, oh my God, this person is so nice and kind.
3
SPEAKER_01
And there s a part of me that just wishes we lived in a world where you just live in community with people and you re like, oh, you re nice.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re doing cool things.
3
SPEAKER_01
If we didn t live in the age that we did, where we all live far away from each other and we re all in cars all the time, you would just run into people.
3
SPEAKER_01
But now it s like, how do you keep in touch?
3
SPEAKER_01
But do you want to?
3
SPEAKER_01
I think in the moment, look, I said, I ll give you my email, and then people go to phone number.
3
SPEAKER_00
But all you have to do is say, I m not comfortable giving out my phone number.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s so easy.
3
SPEAKER_00
I am keeping this in because this is important.
3
SPEAKER_00
By the way, and I ll meet you here.
3
SPEAKER_00
I gave someone my phone number.
3
SPEAKER_00
You did this week?
3
SPEAKER_00
No, like a while ago.
3
SPEAKER_00
She asked though, she asked specifically, and she knows my brother, kind of.
3
SPEAKER_00
I ran into this person on the street.
3
SPEAKER_00
She said, oh my gosh, are you Monica?
3
SPEAKER_00
I said, yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
She was like, I know your brother.
3
SPEAKER_00
And she said, how?
3
SPEAKER_00
And I was like, oh my gosh, how cool.
3
SPEAKER_00
Do you live in the neighborhood?
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I do.
3
SPEAKER_00
I d love to hang out.
3
SPEAKER_00
Can I get your number?
3
SPEAKER_00
And I gave it, and I regretted it.
3
SPEAKER_00
I really did, because then she texted me, and I m not gonna hang out with her.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m sure she s so nice.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s nothing to do with her.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s just— I m not going to.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m not— And you re not going to either.
3
SPEAKER_00
You have to be honest with yourself.
3
SPEAKER_00
You don t want to.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, let s look.
3
SPEAKER_01
I have 380 unread texts right now.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s not even a thing of, I don t really care.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m just— I don t— But there s a reason you have 380 unread texts.
3
SPEAKER_00
Because people are texting you.
3
SPEAKER_00
How many unread texts do you have?
3
SPEAKER_00
I have zero unread texts.
3
SPEAKER_00
I have zero.
3
SPEAKER_00
People don t text me unless they re in my life actively.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t do that.
3
SPEAKER_01
Most of these people are in my life, for the record.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
3
SPEAKER_01
You have a lot of people in your life.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I don t have the ability to respond to everything that comes at me.
3
SPEAKER_00
But it doesn t make you a bad person to say, I don t want to hang out with a stranger.
3
SPEAKER_00
It doesn t make you a bad person.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I feel like in your head it does, which is why you can t even say the words, I don t want to hang out with this person I met at Trader Joe s randomly.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
And in fact, it would be odd if every single person you came across, you were like, sure, I ll like build a relationship with them.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s like, that s not healthy either.
3
SPEAKER_00
You need, we have capacities.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes, that s the thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
You have zero unread texts.
3
SPEAKER_01
Zero.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I have 32,000 emails.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I have zero unread texts.
3
SPEAKER_00
I also have 32,000 emails.
3
SPEAKER_01
Emails don t even count anymore.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t think in 2023, if you write someone an email, you might get a response, but no one s obligated to respond to emails.
3
SPEAKER_01
There s too many.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
I understand.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s sad, especially when it s an older person.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like, ugh.
3
SPEAKER_00
It just does break your heart.
3
SPEAKER_00
But she has a gut feeling, and she needs to listen to it.
3
SPEAKER_01
I worked in bars.
3
SPEAKER_01
This happened, okay?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it is very important that you never hang out with them.
3
SPEAKER_01
Sometimes even regulars will become very entitled to you, even at the bar.
3
SPEAKER_01
Place of work.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that would happen a lot, even if I wouldn t cross the— I don t think I ever actually gave my number to, like, clients or stuff like that, but I really— Sorry, it sounds like I m a—
3
SPEAKER_01
In French we say… Patron.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, patron.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think we say it differently.
3
SPEAKER_01
But it sounds like I m, you know… So, I had people come in and they feel that they have a special relationship with you.
3
SPEAKER_01
And in some instances, they do, right?
3
SPEAKER_01
But they ll demand a lot more of your time and attention.
3
SPEAKER_01
I would be careful not even to really do too much of that.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you cannot feel that you owe anyone anything at your job.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay, I would say this.
3
SPEAKER_00
If he texts you, I mean, at this point, it s too late.
3
SPEAKER_00
You gave the number, so if he texts, it s fine.
3
SPEAKER_00
If he texts you, you say, why don t you just blame it on your boyfriend?
3
SPEAKER_00
I was gonna literally say that.
3
SPEAKER_00
So easy.
3
SPEAKER_01
I blame my imaginary boyfriend all the time.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m sure your boyfriend also would be fine with it if you, you know, I m really sorry my boyfriend s not comfortable with me engaging.
3
SPEAKER_00
Engaging, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Looking forward to seeing you next time you re at the blah, blah, blah.
3
SPEAKER_00
Keep it very minimal.
3
SPEAKER_00
Cordial.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
For yourself, because you already feel a little bit uncomfortable, like really honor how you re feeling.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
And don t, you could have more of a boundary with this person even than you have before.
3
SPEAKER_01
I think that s totally acceptable and might actually, again, make your life a little easier.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because even though you re trying to be nice, when the message isn t clear for that person, it actually will only make
3
SPEAKER_01
things harder for them.
3
SPEAKER_01
And that helps me when I feel like I m being mean or something like that.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, no, this actually is better for the person.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like me being overtly nice
4
SPEAKER_00
will lead to them having expectations that won t get met, and that actually is the less kind thing to do.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, totally.
4
SPEAKER_01
I just want everyone to get a little bit more comfortable and practice.
4
SPEAKER_01
Because it never feels good in the moment, but it feels immediately good once you ve said, I m sorry I can t, or I m sorry I don t feel comfortable doing this.
4
SPEAKER_01
You will feel
4
SPEAKER_01
so good about yourself for sticking up for yourself.
4
SPEAKER_01
And also most of the time, the other person really respects you knowing yourself and sticking up for yourself and having a boundary, especially in the workplace that s been studied, that when people put up boundaries, they actually get more respect.
4
SPEAKER_01
Of course.
4
SPEAKER_01
From their bosses and peers and stuff.
4
SPEAKER_01
So it s just really important to practice.
4
SPEAKER_01
But of course, she s just trying to be nice.
4
SPEAKER_01
But yeah, I think when he texts you,
4
SPEAKER_01
You either blame it on the boyfriend or you say, I m so sorry.
4
SPEAKER_01
I should have done this earlier.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m just not comfortable engaging via text.
4
SPEAKER_00
But I look forward to seeing you at blah, blah, blah.
4
SPEAKER_00
And even don t blame the boyfriend.
4
SPEAKER_00
You can blame it on work and say like, it actually crossed the boundary for me to take your— I shouldn t have done it.
4
SPEAKER_00
And even again, put it on you like, oh, I apologize.
4
SPEAKER_00
I shouldn t have given you my number.
4
SPEAKER_00
Looking forward to the next blah, blah, blah.
4
SPEAKER_00
But you end it with like a positive of like, you re still gonna be friendly, but... Exactly.
4
SPEAKER_00
It ll feel great.
4
SPEAKER_00
You re right, that in the moment, it feels like the most terrifying thing in the world.
4
SPEAKER_00
Because I found that if I don t do it, even if I think, oh, it s fine, I m just gonna avoid it, or I m just gonna, you re just carrying it around.
4
SPEAKER_01
Exactly, and then you have, you ll feel icky, and in a personal relationship, if this is happening, you ll feel resentful.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s like the boundaries are there to protect everyone, and mainly to protect the relationship.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yes, that s true.
4
SPEAKER_01
Boundaries queen.
4
21.
4
SPEAKER_00
She s so young.
4
SPEAKER_00
If it was, because also this can happen, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
I ve been in situations where I ve joined a group, this volunteering thing, and one of the people there, we did have a special friendship.
4
SPEAKER_00
We did see each other outside of that, and we re still friends, but it didn t feel wrong in my body.
4
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
4
SPEAKER_00
Right?
4
SPEAKER_00
And the fact that you re immediately like, oop, that s all you need to know.
4
SPEAKER_00
And it s important to listen to that.
4
SPEAKER_01
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4
SPEAKER_01
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SPEAKER_01
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4
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
4
SPEAKER_01
I can t stop obsessing over my boyfriend s best friend s divorce.
4
SPEAKER_01
Ooh.
4
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
4
SPEAKER_01
These are great.
4
SPEAKER_01
Anonymous.
4
SPEAKER_01
Hi, ladies.
4
SPEAKER_01
I ve been with my boyfriend for almost three years.
4
SPEAKER_01
Recently, one of his best friends cheated on his wife.
4
SPEAKER_01
Recently, one of his...
4
SPEAKER_01
Okay, recently one of his best friends cheated on his wife.
4
SPEAKER_01
They got married last year.
4
SPEAKER_01
My boyfriend was in the wedding and we regularly grab dinner or have game nights with them.
4
SPEAKER_01
Her and I aren t that close.
4
SPEAKER_01
We only ever hang out when it s the four of us, but she s a great person and we get along.
4
SPEAKER_01
My boyfriend and I sort of both got dragged into it early on when my boyfriend s friend came over to talk about his new girlfriend before he told his wife.
4
SPEAKER_01
Then his wife came over after to talk to me about it.
4
SPEAKER_01
She was devastated and I had to not divulge too much information even though I knew the other side.
4
SPEAKER_01
Since the initial cheating, not even a month ago, they have separated and he has started fully dating this other woman, the one he cheated on her with, pretty heavily.
4
SPEAKER_01
Within the friend group, which started with the boys growing up together and us girls are all kind of add-ons or add-ins,
4
SPEAKER_01
No one seems to be that upset with him for cheating on his wife and now bringing around a new girl in less than a month.
4
SPEAKER_01
Jokes are made at his expense, everyone laughs, and it just kind of gets brushed off.
4
SPEAKER_01
But for some reason, I can t do that.
4
SPEAKER_01
Morally, I know what s wrong.
4
SPEAKER_01
She s a good person and she s hurting, and I would be too if I was in her shoes.
4
SPEAKER_01
Because he was in the friend group first before her, I know he will stick around and she won t.
4
SPEAKER_01
But I just can t get over the fact that no one is upset about this.
4
SPEAKER_01
The other woman who knew he was married has already been invited to an event later this month,
4
SPEAKER_01
and they go out to dinner publicly in our not-giant-but-not-super-small-town.
4
SPEAKER_01
When he comes to our house, he s always texting and smiling at his phone and taking videos of what we re all doing to share with her, and I just don t want to be a part of it.
4
SPEAKER_01
When he s around, he shows no remorse and justifies his actions, and it irks me.
4
SPEAKER_01
I know cheating isn t the end of the world, but I can t stop obsessing over their upcoming divorce, and I think my boyfriend is getting annoyed with me.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s not my place to reach out to his ex-wife and see how she s doing.
4
SPEAKER_01
That would be adding drama to the situation.
4
SPEAKER_01
Nor is it my place to tell my boyfriend his friend can t be around.
4
SPEAKER_01
But I hurt for her because she s a human being and I know she was devastated.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I just don t like that he s being cruel and everyone acting like they re fine with it to his face.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s not my relationship, so really none of my business.
4
SPEAKER_01
But I guess I would hope people would stand up for what s right for me.
4
SPEAKER_01
Am I obsessing over something that is 100% not my business, or is it normal to hold on to compassion and hurt for someone in a tough situation, regardless what they mean to you and want justice on their behalf?
4
SPEAKER_01
Thanks, ladies.
4
SPEAKER_01
I love the show.
4
SPEAKER_00
I relate so much to these questions.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, these are great.
4
SPEAKER_01
I have a thought.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_01
The reason you re so activated is because you re worried that if that happened to you, no one would have your back.
4
SPEAKER_01
No one would be there for you.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I can relate to that too.
4
SPEAKER_01
This thing happened to me and why is everyone just okay with it?
4
SPEAKER_01
And nobody is saying anything or sticking up for me.
4
SPEAKER_01
And it s not
4
SPEAKER_01
This is going to sound so brutal and harsh.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s not about you.
4
SPEAKER_01
And so you can have relationships with whoever you want.
4
SPEAKER_01
You don t personally have to hang out with them if you don t want, but you can t set a boundary for anyone else.
4
SPEAKER_01
You can t tell your boyfriend to not hang out with them.
4
SPEAKER_01
You can t tell your other friends to be mad.
4
SPEAKER_01
I know from experience, it s really unhealthy because they won t.
4
SPEAKER_01
They re their own people.
4
SPEAKER_01
They have their own opinions and feelings that you
4
SPEAKER_01
can t control and have nothing to do with you and trying to will make you go crazy and make you obsess, which is where you re at.
4
SPEAKER_01
So it s really separating yourself from the situation.
4
SPEAKER_00
I like totally disagree, but I,
4
SPEAKER_00
I think you re right, but I understand entirely.
4
SPEAKER_00
I relate to that feeling.
4
SPEAKER_00
I ve never been in that.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m trying to think if I ve been in that exact situation.
4
SPEAKER_00
Probably not.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s probably some projection.
4
SPEAKER_00
But to me, it s that she has values, and this is not aligning with her values.
4
SPEAKER_00
But she s not living it.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yes, but she s friends with all these people.
4
SPEAKER_00
I fully understand why this could be wrong to feel upset on behalf of a woman that you hardly know and not know the full extent of the situation.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think that we make a lot of assumptions around cheating, but the fact that he has no remorse and he thinks that everything s okay and he didn t do anything wrong.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that would bother me because it s like, oh, I value
4
SPEAKER_00
honesty and things that aren t being respected.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so, am I really friends with these people?
4
SPEAKER_00
Is my boyfriend also aligned with what I thought he would be aligned with?
4
SPEAKER_00
To me, it is less about this guy and more about probably her and her feelings about it and probably with her boyfriend.
4
SPEAKER_00
Not to analyze her, but I wonder if her boyfriend was more upset and was feeling the same way that she was feeling, maybe this wouldn t be as bad.
4
SPEAKER_00
Totally.
4
SPEAKER_01
But that s what I mean.
4
SPEAKER_01
You can t control the way other people are handling a situation.
4
SPEAKER_01
She can say, I don t like this person.
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t like the way he acts.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s all she can do.
4
SPEAKER_01
And I think to then place
4
SPEAKER_01
your own values on other people?
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, she s not placing her own values.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like if you re with a group of friends and they all start hunting, and you re like, wait, I don t think hunting is good.
4
SPEAKER_00
And all of a sudden, they re all doing something that doesn t fit with you.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think that s also, it s okay to have those feelings, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
And to be confused by that and to want to know, is it that we were on completely different pages?
4
SPEAKER_00
Again, I don t think she s trying to control.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think she s trying to make sense.
4
SPEAKER_00
of her discomfort.
4
SPEAKER_01
I don t think she s trying to control.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m trying to give her a solution, which is if you want to stay friends with all these people, that s the question you need to ask yourself.
4
SPEAKER_01
If the answer is yes, you just have to accept whatever people s values are, or it s no.
4
SPEAKER_00
You can
4
SPEAKER_00
talk through things.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s not like I think you can work through things, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
And I think this also seems like it s like her boyfriend s friend group.
4
SPEAKER_00
So I think that complicates it.
4
SPEAKER_01
Of course, you can talk things through.
4
SPEAKER_01
But I think if you re ever in a position where you re trying to convince someone else that they should be upset about something that you re upset about, that s not healthy.
4
SPEAKER_01
Trying to convince someone to be upset about something doesn t go well ever.
5
SPEAKER_01
they re not.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then again, sort of back to the original thing we were talking about earlier, then they feel shamed.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like, oh, you think I m bad because I don t feel the way you feel.
5
SPEAKER_01
And people have different feelings on these things.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I think
5
SPEAKER_01
This is for her to work out.
5
SPEAKER_01
To incorporate the other people is not going to get her the result, which is that everyone s now upset.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, they might not be upset, but they could explain.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, so she s either like loses all her friends or she stops being upset.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, being upset over something you can t change is...
5
SPEAKER_00
No, but it s… Then you have a conversation about it.
5
SPEAKER_00
Again, I m putting myself in her shoes and like, if my boyfriend is feeling very differently about something, I would want to talk about it with him and try and, you know, not make him upset, but try and understand where he s coming from.
5
SPEAKER_00
Talk through my discomfort with the situation.
5
SPEAKER_00
and not go like, you should be upset, but be like, I m really uncomfortable.
5
SPEAKER_00
I find it really hard to hang out with everybody when this is happening.
5
SPEAKER_00
Can we work through this?
5
SPEAKER_00
Or can you help me understand?
5
SPEAKER_00
Because I can t make sense of the situation and I m having trouble with it.
5
SPEAKER_00
And maybe again, through talking about it, maybe she ll realize that everyone is upset or everyone knows something that she doesn t know that s like, actually she cheated on him too.
5
SPEAKER_00
So that s why it s like, I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_00
But I feel that just leaving her to feel, you know, her feelings in isolation from everybody and just either stop talking to all of them or stop feeling what she s feeling is like a bad place to put her in, no?
5
SPEAKER_01
Their feelings on a third party situation are affecting her.
5
SPEAKER_01
She can only take care of her own feelings and they re tied to these other people s feelings.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so and that is Entanglement.
5
SPEAKER_01
I do think you re right that she should have a conversation with her boyfriend Because that I think is where a lot of this stem.
5
SPEAKER_01
So there s probably a lot of fear Yeah, and she can just say hey, I want to talk to you about this.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m scared and
5
SPEAKER_01
based on your reaction to this.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like if it happened to me, you would behave that way.
5
SPEAKER_01
And that makes me feel really sad and uncomfortable.
5
SPEAKER_01
And have that conversation, a vulnerable conversation about your fear around this with the person that you ve committed to.
5
SPEAKER_01
Anytime someone cheats who s in your circle, it causes fear for everyone.
5
SPEAKER_01
Everything immediately becomes destabilized.
5
SPEAKER_01
And you start seeing life as scary.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s like, oh my God, this could happen at any moment.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I thought they were so happy.
5
SPEAKER_01
And we were just at the wedding only a year ago.
5
SPEAKER_01
And now here we are.
5
SPEAKER_01
And how could this happen?
5
SPEAKER_01
And could this happen to me?
5
SPEAKER_01
Understanding that that s actually what s happening and then trying to figure that out in your own partnership, I think is the only way you will feel better.
5
SPEAKER_01
If you felt better just because everyone else
5
SPEAKER_01
was like, oh yeah, you re right, this is really bad.
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We shouldn t be friends with him anymore.
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That s not real.
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They have different opinions on it.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
I would encourage her to try and turn people against him.
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SPEAKER_00
I think what I think would be useful for her is to think about what her feelings are about the situation.
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SPEAKER_00
And I think your point is right.
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SPEAKER_00
It stirs up a lot of feelings and a lot of fears.
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SPEAKER_00
And yeah, she can have that conversation in order to stay in the group or yes, spend less time in the group if that s what she wants to do.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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If it s like every time you re there, you re like, I don t like this, then that s something real.
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You don t have to be there.
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It s a really hard situation.
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And when bombs go off in groups, it s always a hard thing to deal with.
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SPEAKER_01
But thank you for writing in.
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And I think a lot of people can probably relate.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
Should we do one more since it s last of the year?
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SPEAKER_01
Okay.
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SPEAKER_01
Well, do you want to go out on an intense?
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SPEAKER_00
Maybe like a happy one.
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SPEAKER_00
I don t know, I don t have any happy ones.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, people don t really write in when they re having a great day.
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SPEAKER_01
Okay, we re gonna go here.
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SPEAKER_01
How to feel about being ghosted after abortion.
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SPEAKER_01
Hi Monica and Liz, I met a guy who travels with the pro team, but not an athlete, so lives in another city.
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We never technically dated, but went out when he was in town multiple times and also chatted on and off when he wasn t in town.
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Vibes were always amazing.
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SPEAKER_01
However, on our last hookup, I wound up pregnant.
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We decided to terminate the pregnancy.
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I knew it wasn t right to keep a baby just because I wanted a relationship with the guy and he wasn t ready for a kid.
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I ended up going through the whole process alone since he lived in another city.
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SPEAKER_01
He would check in and we had a few calls during that time.
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SPEAKER_01
I felt we were getting closer because of the shared experience.
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SPEAKER_01
He kept saying how appreciative he was of how I was handling the situation that he owed me big time, like a steak dinner the next time we would see each other.
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SPEAKER_01
I guess I got my hopes up.
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SPEAKER_01
After it was all said and done, after the termination, he got really distant.
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SPEAKER_01
Eventually, when he was coming to my city again, I reached out to see if he wanted to meet.
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SPEAKER_01
He ghosted me.
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SPEAKER_01
He would keep checking my stories but ghosted me again when I followed up.
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SPEAKER_01
I m so hurt by it all because the whole experience was so traumatic as I ended up having complications a month later.
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SPEAKER_01
It was the second most distressing event in my life and this person never had to bear any repercussions physically or emotionally.
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SPEAKER_01
I feel alone, hurt, and finding it hard to let go of someone who was part of such a monumental time of my adult life.
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SPEAKER_01
It s hard to talk about with anyone because of the delicate situation that came before it.
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SPEAKER_01
I did decide to remove him from my life, unfollow, remove on social media, etc., which was a huge step for me to accomplish, but I m finding it extremely hard to open up myself to dating anyone or even being physical at all.
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SPEAKER_01
I have yet to have sex again, and it s been nearly a year since the hookup that led to the termination.
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SPEAKER_01
Do you have any advice on how to move forward with this?
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SPEAKER_01
I met a nice guy and I don t know if I should tell him why I m so slow to get physical.
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SPEAKER_01
Also, any advice on moving past someone that decided they don t want to be in your life anymore?
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SPEAKER_01
Thanks so much.
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SPEAKER_01
Appreciate your love and help because this has been weighing on me for so long.
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SPEAKER_01
And yes, I m already in therapy. 
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SPEAKER_01
Okay, well, that s good.
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SPEAKER_01
Oh man, so tough.
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SPEAKER_00
It s so hard to be a woman.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
It s just, we bear so much and so many of the consequences.
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SPEAKER_00
There s a huge biological inequality when it comes to like mating, right?
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SPEAKER_00
And just having sex.
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SPEAKER_00
My first initial, if you were my friend, I would just be like, Venmo him for the abortion.
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SPEAKER_00
That s what I would tell you to do.
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SPEAKER_00
And you don t talk about whether the financials were even split.
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SPEAKER_00
Or I think in many cases the guy should pay for the abortion.
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SPEAKER_00
Because you have to go through the emotional, physical, all of the consequences.
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SPEAKER_00
So the least they can do is actually pay.
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SPEAKER_00
And many men have paid for abortions.
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SPEAKER_00
I have a stinking suspicion that many men in Congress who pass anti-abortion laws have paid for many abortions.
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SPEAKER_00
Yes.
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SPEAKER_00
It s very enraging to live in the world that we live in and to feel your collateral damage in that.
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SPEAKER_00
First of all, I think it s great that you re in therapy.
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SPEAKER_00
If I were your friend, I would ask you, like, what s the story you re telling yourself?
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SPEAKER_00
Because my sense is that the story that you re telling yourself is one that is wrapped in your self-worth, or something that you did, or something that you did wrong, and that s why he, quote unquote, doesn t want to be in your life.
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SPEAKER_00
Thank God.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh my God.
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SPEAKER_00
He doesn t want to, quote unquote.
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SPEAKER_00
Dodged a bullet.
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dodge a bullet, even though you may not feel this way right now, guaranteed that a few months or a few years from now, you re going to look back and just be so thankful that the trash took out itself, so to speak.
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SPEAKER_00
And I would encourage you with your therapist, hopefully this is something you re working on, to create a different story for yourself.
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SPEAKER_00
because the story that you re telling yourself right now is not helpful and it s also probably not true.
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SPEAKER_00
For sure.
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SPEAKER_00
And giving him so much power.
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SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
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SPEAKER_00
That he gets to choose if he s in your life.
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SPEAKER_00
Looking at your stories but not texting you, like, this guy s a child.
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SPEAKER_00
Like, this guy is not a man.
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SPEAKER_00
Sometimes I feel like women will say that to each other and it can just make you feel worse because you re like, but like, I like this guy who treats me, you know, badly.
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SPEAKER_00
But you probably see the best in him.
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SPEAKER_00
You probably see the best in people.
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SPEAKER_00
And that s why you see his potential.
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SPEAKER_00
But this man is not meeting his potential in any way.
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SPEAKER_01
You re living in what could have been, but he showed you what was going to be, which was going to be bad.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
Because he s not capable of being there for you in the way that you need in a partner.
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SPEAKER_01
So he showed you what the future was.
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SPEAKER_01
So instead of like, oh, but it could have been so great.
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SPEAKER_01
You already have the answer that he couldn t be that.
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SPEAKER_00
This is why we need the right to abortion.
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SPEAKER_00
This is a literal case, right?
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SPEAKER_00
Having an abortion and the entire process, especially in the climate that we re in, I don t know what state she s in, right?
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SPEAKER_00
There s so many things.
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SPEAKER_00
You re a fucking badass.
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SPEAKER_00
This is why we need the right to abortion.
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SPEAKER_00
This is why we need to preserve that right because there are so many men who are not ready to be fathers or will never be ready to be fathers.
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SPEAKER_00
Women shouldn t have to bear the brunt.
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SPEAKER_01
I also, you definitely don t have to tell the new person why you don t want to be physical.
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SPEAKER_01
Unless you feel like you want to.
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SPEAKER_01
But don t feel pressured into that.
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SPEAKER_01
You can just say, I just need to take this really slow.
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SPEAKER_01
And you don t have to give any explanations.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00
You took such a brave and amazing and important decision for yourself and for your well-being and for the rest of your life.
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SPEAKER_00
I feel like I want her to really live in that.
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SPEAKER_00
And yeah, I would bring it up if you want to.
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SPEAKER_00
It s very sensitive.
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SPEAKER_01
So I would share it only if you feel safe to.
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SPEAKER_01
like you feel that that person can receive that information.
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SPEAKER_01
So I think you should really trust a person before you want to share it or before you do share.
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SPEAKER_01
it, and then sharing that and hearing the reaction from whoever, if you really like them, will also give you information, ton of information about that person.
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SPEAKER_01
All right.
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SPEAKER_01
Well, I think that is going to be it.
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SPEAKER_01
We will be gone for a week, and I hope everyone has a wonderful holiday season.
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SPEAKER_01
Try not to let the gloom get you.
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SPEAKER_01
Make the cookies.
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SPEAKER_01
Do the fun stuff.
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SPEAKER_01
Go get fun drinks.
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SPEAKER_01
You have more agency than you think in how you feel, so you can make it festive.
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SPEAKER_00
Or you can just watch Netflix.
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SPEAKER_00
Do whatever.
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SPEAKER_00
Rest and read books.
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SPEAKER_00
It can look like whatever you want it to look like.
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SPEAKER_00
I remember last year, like, Be Real.
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SPEAKER_00
You probably don t know what that is.
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SPEAKER_01
Oh, the app.
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SPEAKER_00
It had a moment last year, and some people might still be using it.
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SPEAKER_00
But it s very much like in the moment where you get prompted and you have to take a photo.
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SPEAKER_00
You can t, there s no filters.
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SPEAKER_00
There s no, you know, oh, I ll wait until I m doing something really amazing.
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SPEAKER_00
And I remember seeing just the contrast between the Instagram posts of holidays and then the be reals, which was like, everyone s just watching TV.
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SPEAKER_00
Like everyone s posting like these amazing, and you re making up a whole idea of how other people s holidays going based on their Instagram posts, but their be real is like everyone s just watching holiday movies in their pajamas.
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SPEAKER_01
I m going to put out that I want people to enjoy this time.
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SPEAKER_01
Whatever that means to you, enjoy this time.
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SPEAKER_01
And we will see you in 2024.
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SPEAKER_01
2024 is a very pleasing number.
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SPEAKER_01
It sounds good.
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SPEAKER_01
It feels synced.
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SPEAKER_01
It does.
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SPEAKER_01
2 plus 2, 4.
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SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
6
2024.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
It s going to be good.
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SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
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SPEAKER_01
All right.
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SPEAKER_01
Love you.