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At just 24 years old, Andrew Hosier Byrne captured the world s attention with his hit song, Take Me to Church.
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Today, we ll explore how he navigated the immense success and pressure that followed and whether he experienced imposter syndrome amidst the praise.
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Andrew will also share his insights on balancing the desire to serve his audience while staying true to his art and how he learned to prioritize his passion for music over chasing chart rankings.
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I m Lewis Howes, and this is The School of Greatness.
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Now let s dive into today s episode with Hosier.
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I honestly felt I was never going to write another song.
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Really?
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Yeah, sometimes you re in a pandemic.
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And I hit this kind of wall where I couldn t move forward.
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And I felt I d written my very last song.
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He first made noise with his breakout single we were all obsessed with, Take Me to Church, earning a rare diamond certification.
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And since then, it has become one of the top 30 most streamed songs ever on Spotify.
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Please welcome singer-songwriter Hosier.
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So I was absolutely at war with myself constantly.
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Really?
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Yeah, yeah.
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How did that look like on a daily basis?
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What would that mean?
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It s like I couldn t have a thought without an opposing thought, you know?
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So it s like my brain was kind of split in two.
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I d have a thought and then a thought to combat with that.
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The artist s question of, OK, like, it s knowing that art has such potential to heal.
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It s easier to just, once you make the conversation with yourself, well, what am I trying to make sense of?
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within myself.
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It s quite paralyzing to be confronted with.
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The great, great question of will this heal somebody?
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Will this fix this thing?
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Maybe music is special in that you can discover a song at any time.
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You can discover an artist from the 80s or 70s, 50s, but you gain what you create in that moment as you discover it.
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It s something that s spontaneous and it s happening.
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What is the biggest thing you still struggle with today?
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Really great questions, but very challenging ones.
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But yeah, I kind of want to phone a friend.
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Welcome back, everyone at the School of Greatness.
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Very excited about our guest.
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We have the inspiring, iconic Andrew Hozier Byrne in the house.
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My man.
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Hey, thank you so much for having me.
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So glad that you re here.
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I remember about 10, 11 years ago when Take Me to Church came out, and it was kind of the anthem for the world, I feel like.
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It was on repeat, on my playlist, on everyone s playlist.
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And it really catapulted you into another level of success, stardom, financial gain, and opportunities.
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You know, one of the most downloaded or one of the most streamed songs of all time on Spotify, 13 times platinum, diamond certified, Grammy nominated.
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I mean, every type of award you could get, you received or were nominated for at a very young age.
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22, I believe, right?
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A little bit older.
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I think it was 24.
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24.
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OK, so 24.
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I m curious, if I would ve had that much fame, success, money at 24, I think I would ve, my ego would ve got the best of me.
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I would ve probably, I don t know, done things that I would ve been ashamed of later in life.
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I probably would ve like, I don t know, just not been the best person with that much.
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Everyone tell me you re incredible, you re a gift to the world, you re successful.
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How did you navigate success that early and the pressure
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to live up to some potential at 24 when the world was watching and listening to you?
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Yeah.
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I think, thank you.
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I think, first of all, give yourself some credit.
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I think you navigated very gracefully.
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When you re in that situation, it is there s something of your makeup or your ingredients just steers you, hopefully, in the right way.
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But what I will say is that I had
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really good, I had good friends around me, you know, I had a grounded sense around me, I had a very grounded upbringing.
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Some of this is maybe cultural and some of this is personal.
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The cultural side of it, being Irish, I was naturally suspicious of kind words being said about me or to me, you know, at a time when, especially coming to a city like this, or at a time when, yeah, the song was making the rounds and it was a hit.
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And you get a lot of attention.
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And I think my natural response to that oftentimes was not suspicion necessarily, but a kind of a guarded skepticism.
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So you didn t buy into your own hype.
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Yeah, that was it.
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That s the way of putting it.
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And some of that s personal as well, too.
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I m not great at receiving praise, working on that as time goes on, as life moves on.
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So I never internalized it.
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I never internalized the noise around the success of the song as something that I would graft onto my person.
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That s something that I think hopefully stood to me.
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I could maybe have done with
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Pat myself on the back once.
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Did you not give yourself the credit?
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Were you just kind of like, well, it s still not good enough, or I should be better, or I need to do it again?
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Yeah, it was more that I felt, maybe I had, I felt like I hadn t, because it was the first song I d ever released.
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Gosh, that s crazy, man.
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Yeah.
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So it felt like and it s a song I just like I threw together in my in my parents attic.
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I had moved back to I d moved back home from living in Dublin.
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And I realized I did not have, you know, it was like that point where I was like, OK, long term, I can t keep paying this rent.
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I m going to move back if I m going to be a musician.
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I was staying with my parents for a brief time.
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And then, yeah, I just threw the song together in my attic.
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And like, what, a day, a couple hours, a few days?
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To be fair, I was writing that song for like lyrically for over a year.
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So I had been sitting on this egg, this like lyrical thing.
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But it came together musically rather fast.
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But maybe there was some part of me that felt like, have I earned this?
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Have I been doing this for 10 years?
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And I ve been sitting, I ve been obviously stewing over writing music.
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I ve been writing songs for years at that point.
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I wasn t sharing them with the world, but I d been writing them to myself and for myself.
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And I had been, for a couple of years, doing sort of open mic stuff, working on other people s projects.
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But it felt very quick and very early.
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So there was an imposter syndrome thing, for sure.
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Yeah, of course.
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Yeah, big time.
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So that s probably another thing that I was like, OK, yeah, maybe I felt I had more to do.
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Like you hadn t proved yourself enough and done the reps enough?
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Maybe, yeah.
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But you were doing open mic for a couple of years, you said.
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I think I saw you were in a choir for a while, an orchestra choir for a while as well.
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So you had been in music.
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I think I learned that you picked up a guitar at 15.
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So at that time, about nine years, at least, of guitar, singing, songwriting, open mics.
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So it wasn t that you just started the year before.
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True, true.
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And as time goes on, I m able to sort of look back and go, no, you know what?
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And part of that is that s a personal journey of going, no, it happened because I worked like a dog, you know?
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and to bring that song to where it got to.
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At the time, I wasn t present in that.
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Really?
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I don t think so.
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So in those first, I guess, six months after the song is released and you start to see this meteoric rise on the song s success, where you re getting invited to all the awards ceremonies, you re performing on stages with other big names now,
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And everyone wants to talk to you or interview you.
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What is going through your mind?
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Are you thinking, I m not deserving of this or I m not worthy of this?
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Or are you thinking I m an imposter?
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I don t know.
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I think there s some switch in your brain as soon as somebody says, like, you know, I love your song or I love your...
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you know, great work on that or whatever, there s some switch in your brain that just, like this little psychic wall goes up and the compliment, the whatever, the noise, the glitter and the roar of that moment just hits against that wall and falls away.
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Really?
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I think so, yeah.
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I think, so it s a... If you had that, you know, that wall,
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Did you feel like it helped you in managing the pressure then because you weren t believing all of it quickly?
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Maybe so.
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Maybe so.
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There might be a coping mechanism to it in that it s the flip side of that is that, okay, you can shrug off then the pressure to be this thing rather than internalize
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this being whatever that everyone else is experiencing around you as yourself that you don t necessarily experience.
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And yeah, you don t have to deal with the weight of that or the pressure of that or the
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the duality of that.
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Maybe you re just like, I don t know what you re all talking about.
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You know, I don t know what the hype is and maybe that makes it easier.
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So there might be a coping element to it.
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Yeah.
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I feel like there s, there must be such a pressure for artists on that type of a platform and stage to create meaning around life for humanity, to have the answers to society s problems, to,
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help people heal with their pain and their problems.
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Do you ever felt like you were put in a position to try to, you know, answer the world s problems through your art too quickly before you actually lived life enough?
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It s such a broad... It s such a deep, broad question about, like, about art or... It s not necessarily its purpose, you know, or its...
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it s potential, maybe, you know, and the artist s question of, okay, like it s knowing that art has such potential to heal and to comfort and to offer a reflection or offer a new perspective or a new
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window into meaning, especially around suffering.
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And there s plenty of that in the world.
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I think that that can be a challenge maybe for any artist to, even before they step into the creation of a work, is, and I ve definitely felt this, is that you are confronted with the potential of that work.
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And that is,
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it s very difficult.
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And I think it s, it s easier to just, once you make the conversation with yourself as to, okay, well, what am I trying to make sense of within myself?
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What is coming up?
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What, you know, if I pull on this rope, what comes up from the well?
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You know, what s in that bucket?
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And then, okay, to,
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to try and feel that, get a sense of that.
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I think that s maybe, that s the starting place.
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I think it s quite paralyzing to be confronted with the great, great question of, will this heal somebody?
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Will this fix this thing?
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That s impossible.
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And there is some part of you at some point, and I think, I don t know if you re in any way a sort of somebody who tends to care deeply for people or is in any way a people pleaser or is trying to fix people s problems around you.
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There is this, you re like, oh, no, this must be all things to all people.
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And part of the challenge, I think, is letting go of that.
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So when you write that, you know, I m assuming you d written many songs before, take me to church, you know, growing up, you re writing songs, but that was the first one that you kind of released into the world, I guess, right?
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Were you thinking ever, how is this going to impact others when you write a song and put it out in the world?
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Are you thinking more, this is how this impacts me, and I just want to share that with others?
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It was a little bit of both.
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I think there was two things.
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There was one thing I wanted.
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I wanted the song to speak to the legacy of that institution, of the institutionalised Roman Catholic Church, specifically in Ireland.
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I didn t think that that song was going to have an international audience.
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I didn t even think that that song was going to have, like, a broad Irish audience.
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I wrote this song as an unsigned, unknown, you know, artist.
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who was just, I suppose there was an anger behind this.
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It was, this is the, you know, knowing and even did not know the extent of the legacy of that institution.
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You know, we had like a few years after its release, we re still, if you re familiar with
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with essentially a grave site that they found in a town called Toom in Galway, where you d been.
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I won t go into it now, but like all sorts of stuff with that legacy.
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So what I was just trying to process was
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the questions of the personal and the intimate and the romantic and the sexual, and trying to take back what is divine in those things, take back what we might consider sacred in those things, wrestling them back from the
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from an institution whose legacy is so harmful.
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So it was more that, you know.
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But there was never... There was a thought, as I was writing it, that there will be very, very few people
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who will see what I m doing here in this song and will appreciate it.
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But I thought it was like... Locals in Ireland or something.
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A small audience.
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A pump crowd who s like, you re gonna go sing an open mic for and sing this song.
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Yeah, it would be... I was proud of the song.
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But beyond that, it was more in conversation with me.
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And a lot of those lyrics I had in a notebook that had kept with me for a year at that point.
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Yeah.
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I had interviewed many bestselling authors, a handful who sold five, 10 million copies of their book.
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I had Liz Gilbert on one time, she wrote the book Eat, Pray, Love, and she did a famous TED talk about how
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you know, how to grapple with her best work or her most known work potentially being behind her.
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Like, because she sold 10 million copies, it was this global movie, it was like this phenomenon that took off in the world when she wrote it.
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And how to navigate life after potentially what could be the biggest success you could ever have.
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She was like, I probably won t write a book again that does another 10 million copies.
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It s very rare to do that.
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Have you ever thought about that of like just how to navigate a long career with such a big hit early on and not let needing to chase downloads or streams or charts be the driver for you, like your first single?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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It s a tricky one.
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And if it doesn t do that well, like, am I a failure or is something wrong?
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Do you ever think about that?
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Yeah.
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You know what?
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It s something that you gain.
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It s like a relationship thing as time goes on.
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I m kind of laughing to myself.
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A member of my label team who s been with me since the very beginning, Betsy, is next door.
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So she s going to hear me talk now about it.
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Yeah, I don t care about strength.
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No, no, no.
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Like, yeah, it s you.
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Of course, you love that the work is is seen or heard by as many ears as possible if they connect with it.
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I think there is and there is one part of you maybe that would love that.
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I think as time goes on and even then,
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even 10 years ago, I recognize that, and this is maybe what s most important to me, is that the music that I want to make and the music that I feel moved to make does not necessarily belong in the spaces of the top 10.
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Music that is geared towards social spaces and hearty atmospheres.
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Music that is like oftentimes points towards like an aspirational sort of whatever it is.
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A lot of the time it s club life or it s music that celebrates or engages in like a kind of a conspicuous consuming of life and its pleasures, etc.
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You know, but one that isn t.
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But
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I can t, it would be a bit silly of me to be all woe is me and want to write songs about, you know, whatever, the Roman Catholic Church or songs that, you know, the legacy of colonialism or occupation or something like that and go, why?
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Why isn t this in the clubs?
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It s just that I don t necessarily feel aligned, and I m okay with that.
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But this is why I feel so lucky.
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So I m very much at peace.
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Um, with it not being, those are as well, those are oftentimes those are external, those are external validation.
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Again, it s that thing of like, um, when I was in that, I also wasn t fulfilled in any sort of like by that external validation in a very, in a personal way.
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Yes, there s all of these, you know, it s great and there s wonderful opportunities, but
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I wasn t getting, from that external validation, I wasn t getting a voice in my head saying, oh yeah, now I ve arrived and now I feel good about myself.
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This would be the same for anybody.
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I m sure you re probably the very same.
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So reminding myself of that.
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you know, helps.
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But then also, just to know that, and this is where I feel incredibly fortunate, I feel like I want for nothing, is that I can write, I write songs, I feel on my own terms with stuff that does, you know, move me or I feel moved to write.
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It s not exactly subject material all the time that says, come on in, this is easygoing, like listening, you know, and playing around with, like, literary influences, like from centuries ago.
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And yes, I still see that I m selling more tickets now than I was when tickets were a hit.
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Really?
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Yeah.
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I m selling far more tickets for shows.
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Go, man.
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It s cool.
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selling more a decade later after, you know, your first big hit.
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I think part of it is time.
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Part of it is there s a whole new generation of people now that are exploring the work who are maybe 10 years, 11 years old when my first songs came out.
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And they were listening to it then.
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And they were listening to it.
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And it s like, cool, they were listening to it when they were 10 or 11 in the car as they were being driven to school.
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What s nuts to me is that they re buying tickets to come to the shows now.
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That s amazing.
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Yeah.
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And I feel really fortunate.
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I feel incredibly blessed at that.
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And I think part of it is that maybe it s just the nature of song is that it s hopefully that the work is lasting and people have had 10 years to gain a relationship with the music and it has been part of their lives for 10 years.
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And in that way,
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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It s, you know, and maybe music is special in that we can, you can discover a song at any time, you know, you can discover an artist from the eighties or seventies, fifties, but you gain what you create in that moment as you discover it is something that s spontaneous and it s happening now.
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You create a memory, you create a relationship with that work and that s of the moment.
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And if you could buy tickets to go and see that artist now, you would, you know, it s so true.
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Yeah, it s interesting as you re saying this I m reflecting on my childhood like my my parents would play when we go on like a Trip or something like driving through to go skiing or whatever we re camping or something They would play the Beatles a lot, you know a season of time where they d play the Beatles and I was like Oh, I didn t know who the Beatles were
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until I did know who they were because they started playing it.
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And then I got to hear all these songs and I was like, wow, this is so fascinating.
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And, you know, whatever, 40 years later, then these songs were hits.
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Yeah.
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I discover them.
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Totally.
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Totally.
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And probably have a relationship with those songs in the same way that somebody did in the 60s in some regards.
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Isn t that interesting?
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You know, yeah, I think I found that when I was rediscovering a lot of music that my dad would have played in the house that I was unaware of.
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When I was like in my teens listening to like 12 bar blueses, I had a feeling of like, oh, this is what home, listening to this music, like this feels like home to me.
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But there was something that was nearly like
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I had been listening to like classic rock and roll, like blues music, 12 and eight bar blueses.
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He was in a blues band.
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He was covering blues music.
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There was always tapes.
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He had like these tapes of the material that his band was working on and stuff like from before I was born.
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But I did notice that the music that
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that just was always playing in the house.
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I had no conscious awareness of it when it was being played.
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But then when I was a teenager.
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It was just in the background.
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It was in the background, yeah.
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But I was able to, I forged this relationship with it that I just felt very comfortable with at home with.
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I don t know.
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Yeah, I think that can be powerful too.
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You know what I mean?
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Yeah, I think the relationship you form, they say that when we evolved into the beings that we are, that our auditory senses evolved long before our visual.
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So I think there s something about hearing things, about listening to things, there s something quite deep in it.
2
SPEAKER_00
We hear our parents  voices long before we see them.
2
SPEAKER_00
And so in some regards, I mean, we hear music before we engage in any other type of artistic medium.
2
SPEAKER_00
We re listening to music.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_01
In the boom.
2
SPEAKER_01
Even before we understand it, we re hearing it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
I m curious, in the last decade, what has been the biggest transformation you ve seen within yourself through this journey of success and experience and making all this art?
2
SPEAKER_01
And what is the biggest thing you still struggle with today?
2
SPEAKER_01
Great questions, but like very challenging ones and and so the biggest thing you ve learned about yourself and and the biggest challenge or struggle you have today.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, even with the success that you ve created
2
SPEAKER_01
It s a school of greatness, Andrew.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, yeah, totally.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s right, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, got to expect those great questions, you know?
2
SPEAKER_00
But yeah, I kind of want to phone a friend.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think stuff I ve learned about myself is... I mean, I ve done a lot of personal work.
2
SPEAKER_00
I used to think that...
2
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realizing that creating, maybe this is one thing I can offer, that being creative and creating.
2
SPEAKER_00
And my relationship with myself was also, you know, my relationship with the work is very often dependent on my relationship with myself.
2
SPEAKER_00
What do you mean by that?
2
SPEAKER_00
It s a thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s like whether it s self-doubt or it s self-criticism, an internal monologue that is largely negative.
2
SPEAKER_00
and something I took for granted my whole life.
2
SPEAKER_00
It didn t catch up with me until a couple of years ago when I realised I honestly felt I was never going to write another song.
2
SPEAKER_00
Really?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, sometimes during the pandemic.
2
SPEAKER_00
I hit this kind of wall where I couldn t move forward anymore and I felt I d written my very last song.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I had to come round to, OK, no, this is just, it s the same voices, but they re just louder now because there s nothing to distract me.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I think that was, in the pandemic, that was part of it.
2
SPEAKER_01
You weren t able to tour, you weren t able to go out and distract yourself.
2
SPEAKER_01
Not that tour is a distraction, but you had to sit still now and hear everything coming in.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
And in some ways, tour is a magnificent distraction.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s a job in which you re constantly putting out fires, you know.
2
SPEAKER_00
And every day is another little crisis, you know.
2
SPEAKER_00
And, you know, I d still get, I won t say, would you call it stage fright?
2
SPEAKER_00
But, like, I m still having to regulate my body constantly.
2
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
2
SPEAKER_00
Every day is like... Really?
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh yeah, ten minutes before stage.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I can t do this.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Come on.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s an element of like nerves and like I m not able to do this.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s so funny.
2
SPEAKER_00
I was joking with some of the band and this is maybe a magician thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
We had a few weeks break.
2
SPEAKER_00
I was a month into a couple of weeks after break and I was trying to think
2
SPEAKER_00
Now, this is maybe because a lot of playing is muscle memory.
2
SPEAKER_00
You don t think about when it s automatic.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I was trying to think to myself, like, how do I play that song on guitar?
2
SPEAKER_00
Visualize or I couldn t visualize a fretboard.
2
SPEAKER_00
I couldn t visualize finger movement.
2
SPEAKER_00
But there is always this creeping voice that s
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s, look, it s immaterial.
2
SPEAKER_00
You find your way around it, you step over it, you know, and you ground yourself and stuff.
2
SPEAKER_00
But creatively, I think when you are
2
SPEAKER_00
exactly as you describe, there was no distractions, like during the pandemic.
2
SPEAKER_00
But tour is, there s plenty.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s always something to do, whether it s press, promo, meetings.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m oftentimes releasing music at the same time.
2
SPEAKER_00
So that s looking at artwork, video edits.
2
SPEAKER_00
Mix is mastering.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I m constantly, I ll be honest, like constantly a little bit overwhelmed, like just a little bit under overwhelmed.
2
SPEAKER_00
The nose is like... You re on the line.
2
SPEAKER_00
There s a nostril.
2
SPEAKER_00
I can barely breathe.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
And part of me, you know, it s also realizing, okay, is this, is this by design?
2
SPEAKER_00
Am I trying to keep myself up here?
2
SPEAKER_00
Interesting.
2
SPEAKER_00
Because you didn t want to face yourself maybe.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Or you just, yeah, you operate, operate well in that space or at least you function in that way.
2
SPEAKER_00
But yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
It is not well, but you re like, you re operating.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
You re operating or you re, you re,
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, you re operating, you re getting everything that needs to be done done.
2
SPEAKER_01
So pandemic hits and that all stops and you have to face yourself.
2
SPEAKER_01
I guess so, yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
What was the biggest fear that came to you when you weren t able to go on tour, you weren t seeing people and you had to turn around and face the parts of you that maybe you weren t aware of yet?
2
SPEAKER_00
I can t recall exactly if it was a feeling of fear.
2
SPEAKER_00
There was a feeling of maybe sorrow that came with it.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s just a lowness, you know what I mean?
2
SPEAKER_00
I think anybody who s maybe prone to sort of depressive episodes or is, you know, and will be familiar with it, but it s this kind of, I just slowed down in all, in all, in all forms.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I just felt no route.
2
SPEAKER_00
I saw no, um, ability to, to write nor it was an any, any attempt to make it.
2
SPEAKER_00
was seemed impossible.
2
SPEAKER_00
I also fully believe, and this is a funny thing about when you re in that mindset, I
3
SPEAKER_00
belief that I could not, I did not know how to write a song, despite all evidence against it.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was like, oh no, I actually don t know how to do this.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so... How many songs have you written at this point?
3
SPEAKER_00
Oh, like, you know, maybe probably, you know, over a hundred or, you know, obviously ones that don t get released.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like, yeah, but like, it s something I do all the time, but there s something enters into the mind.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then I realize it s like, oh no, this has nothing to do with this.
3
SPEAKER_00
This is something else.
3
SPEAKER_00
So, again, it s about relationship itself, you know?
3
SPEAKER_00
And so that was something I learned.
3
SPEAKER_00
What was your relationship with yourself like?
3
SPEAKER_00
I think I didn t have much of one, you know, so, and it was more just realizing, OK, I m going to have to cultivate a very positive relationship with myself, you know, and actually kind of put, you know, begin to address
3
SPEAKER_00
the root of some of this stuff and put an arm around myself.
3
SPEAKER_00
So that was the beginning of one of the more significant changes in my life, I would say, is tending to actually, you know, by the time I was 30, actually like tending to, let s say, mental health and a relationship with self.
3
SPEAKER_00
which I had just avoided doing, you know, because I felt maybe I could work my way around it.
3
SPEAKER_00
But once you can t run anymore, I d sometimes describe it as the hamster wheel had to stop spinning, you know what I mean?
3
SPEAKER_00
And so then you re forced to sit in your little cage, you know what I mean?
3
SPEAKER_00
And kind of look around and take it in and go, okay, I made something not right about this.
3
SPEAKER_01
what is the thing that you realized about your identity with yourself or your relationship to yourself when you no longer were chasing or on tour or distracted by facing yourself?
3
SPEAKER_00
I think it was, I d say you could say it was defined by, I had largely a combative relationship with myself.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I was absolutely at war with myself constantly.
3
SPEAKER_01
How did that look like on a daily basis?
3
SPEAKER_01
What would that mean?
3
SPEAKER_00
It s like I couldn t have a thought without an opposing thought, you know?
3
SPEAKER_00
So it s like my brain was kind of split in two, that I d have a thought and then a thought to combat with that.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, no, that s not real.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s not true.
3
SPEAKER_01
This is the truth.
3
SPEAKER_01
This is real.
3
SPEAKER_00
And back and forth.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
At times, I m like, I guess like your state, you know, you re not always, sometimes you re a seven, some days are a three, some days are a nine, some days are, you know.
3
SPEAKER_00
And creatively, it s like, that could really slow me down because it s like, I think this is a nice idea.
3
SPEAKER_00
I think this is beautiful.
3
SPEAKER_00
No, it s not.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I couldn t hold one thought at the same time oftentimes.
3
SPEAKER_00
So it was challenging.
3
SPEAKER_00
I won t go into the nitty and the gritty of my whole experience, but that s probably for another, you know.
3
SPEAKER_00
But no, it definitely put roadblocks up.
3
SPEAKER_00
So that was a big change when I started to address that.
3
SPEAKER_01
how did you navigate the process?
3
SPEAKER_01
And I m assuming there wasn t, I mean, I don t know, correct me if I m wrong, but I don t know if in Ireland growing up, there was a lot of talk around mental health and having a good relationship with yourself and a healthy identity.
3
SPEAKER_01
And, you know, I don t know if there was or not, but how did you learn to develop that then during that time without having any of those skills or tools for the first 30 years of your life?
3
SPEAKER_00
There wasn t, there wasn t really, you know.
3
SPEAKER_00
And especially, it s not something even, I mean, most of my parents  generation would have had any sort of, not really, you know.
3
SPEAKER_00
Not in a kind of a, this is something we can talk about.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s a day-to-day thing, you know.
3
SPEAKER_01
Can I suck it up and let s not talk about it and keep moving forward and just, everything s good?
3
SPEAKER_00
Very 1970s.
3
SPEAKER_00
But I m very grateful to sort of, to have access to be more present in the day-to-day with my actual lived experiences as opposed to just,
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, just having this kind of... Wild man.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I m really grateful you re talking about this because I wrote a whole book called The Mask of Masculinity.
3
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
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SPEAKER_01
Seven years ago now, yeah, where... Because growing up, I felt like I had to be, you know, this strong man.
3
SPEAKER_01
I could never cry.
3
SPEAKER_01
I could never show my emotions in school, sports.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it tormented me inside.
3
SPEAKER_01
You know, it tormented me emotionally.
3
SPEAKER_01
feeling like I had to wear a mask to fit in and belong, but it wasn t my truest authentic self.
3
SPEAKER_01
And when I hit about 30, that s when I started to unwind and start to navigate the therapy myself and reflect and heal.
3
SPEAKER_01
And it was extremely challenging.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s probably the hardest thing I ve ever done is to let go of those masks and open myself up to myself
3
SPEAKER_01
turn around and look at all the parts of me that I was ashamed of or afraid of or scared of or insecure of and actually acknowledge them and look at them and start to heal the little boy inside of me that still had a lot of guards up and fears and insecurities and doubts and shame and angers and resentments and all these different things that I was not proud of.
3
SPEAKER_01
and started to integrate my current self with my younger self.
3
SPEAKER_01
Does it?
3
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And mend the wounds, the emotional or psychological wounds that were stored in the body and the nervous system.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, to create alignment.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
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With the present and the now.
3
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And it was the most challenging thing I ve ever done in my life, but it set me free.
3
SPEAKER_01
And as I m sure you re in right now, healing is a journey.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I m 10 years deep in the healing work, and I ve never felt more free, also knowing that you can t just stop doing the work.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, I still go to therapy every month.
3
SPEAKER_01
I still show up and allow myself to talk about it and process things in a healthy, conscious way.
3
SPEAKER_01
in a safe way.
3
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And I think it s really inspiring to hear you talking about this, because I can only imagine the amount of pressures that artists feel to create art.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I think a lot of artists tend to create from pain or suffering, it seems like, rather than peace and joy.
3
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But it s probably challenging because you re sharing it with the world, but you re also still need to deal with it yourself.
3
SPEAKER_01
And just a probably a messy process.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
The whole sharing from or writing from also let me just I just want to address it s like
3
SPEAKER_00
Thank you.
3
SPEAKER_00
Thank you for sharing that.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it s beautiful.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s also very similar to what you describe.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I think 30 also took me 30 years of living in a way where I realized I can t do this anymore.
3
SPEAKER_00
I can t live like this anymore.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I ve waited too long to feel like I can cope.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know what I mean?
3
SPEAKER_01
It isn t interesting that no amount of success or money or fame will give you that peace or freedom that you re looking for.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, 100%.
3
SPEAKER_00
Isn t that interesting?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I think a lot of people... I don t think that s what you were doing.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t think you were chasing that.
3
SPEAKER_01
You were being an artist and it took off.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I think a lot of people in society and the world are looking to accelerate their career, to have more status, to make more money, to have, you know, flashier things or success to fulfill a part of them that is insecure or afraid or doubting something.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
3
SPEAKER_01
And the more...
3
SPEAKER_01
I did that, and the more others do that, it doesn t solve the problem.
3
SPEAKER_00
You still have to turn around and look at yourself at some point.
3
SPEAKER_00
Totally.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I think it s largely unconscious, this driving, you know what I mean?
3
SPEAKER_00
But that sort of thing of drive.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I do think about this a lot, whether
3
SPEAKER_00
would I be driven to be, you know, because surely the work, it s this question, surely the work is enough.
3
SPEAKER_00
Like if I just loved songs and I just wanted to write them, do I need everybody to hear them?
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, what s the part of... Why go on tour?
3
SPEAKER_01
Why do this?
3
SPEAKER_00
Why do that?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know, why did I need it?
3
SPEAKER_00
So there is, I sometimes wonder, you know, what part of me needed to be witnessed, you know, or what, you know, and I think a lot of
3
SPEAKER_00
people who are driven towards work in the public view.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I m not saying everybody, I m just saying generally, I think you might be correct in that.
3
SPEAKER_00
All of us are driven in some way from maybe some unobserved place that in some way that all of us think, okay, if I get this thing or I do this thing, all my problems will be solved.
3
SPEAKER_00
We all imagine this picture in our heads of
3
SPEAKER_00
that arrival point that just never comes.
3
SPEAKER_00
Or you get there, you ll see the picture and it ll align with the picture in your mind.
4
SPEAKER_01
but the feeling is not there.
4
SPEAKER_01
Or it s still not enough.
4
SPEAKER_01
You still want more.
4
SPEAKER_01
Are you still comparing to what your peer might be doing?
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh, they re getting this opportunity, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, totally.
4
SPEAKER_00
And it s something you shared about that thing.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s kind of that self-parenting thing of gaining relationship with yourself as a child.
4
SPEAKER_00
And a friend of mine once described it quite beautifully, I have to say, of like,
4
SPEAKER_00
getting to this point in that process of then looking out from some moment of their life and just pausing to remind themselves to invite their child to watch it with them and to stand in space, whether through the window of their home or at some event that they were at, and to imagine in their mind s eye that their child was there and to say, hey, look, you know, look where we are.
4
SPEAKER_00
You did this, you know.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I m quite moved by that, just to bring your child into that and go like... Because sometimes there s this sort of switch that happens where we think, no, I took myself away from these circumstances and I did all of this on my own.
4
SPEAKER_00
But to turn around to your kid and say, hey,
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, I want you to see this and how great you did, you know, and how you did this, you know, and we did this together.
4
SPEAKER_00
Isn t this cool?
4
SPEAKER_00
And just to let your kid sort of smile at that.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s beautiful.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I think that is a life changing relationship thing, you know, I think with yourself, if you can do that.
4
SPEAKER_00
But again, yeah, I mean, I had no language for this until I was after... A few years ago.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, until a couple of years ago.
4
SPEAKER_00
So I m still... Why my reluctance also to speak too much on it is because I m so early in it, you know.
4
SPEAKER_01
Wow, man, this is beautiful.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m so happy you re talking about this, though.
4
SPEAKER_01
And don t feel like you need to open up about things here or anywhere.
4
SPEAKER_01
until you feel you ve processed things enough.
4
SPEAKER_01
And you may never need to do that publicly either.
4
SPEAKER_01
It s just... I appreciate it.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s not a pressure here for that in any way.
4
SPEAKER_01
But it sounds like you are in a journey of creating a healthy relationship with self.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s what I m hearing you say.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think so.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think so.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m realising that it s also imperative for the work I want to make.
4
SPEAKER_00
And it s also, it s like to not do it.
4
SPEAKER_00
I think when you start on that, by the time you re ready to sort of do your own little work on yourself, you re ready to realise that not doing this isn t an option, you know, or it s an option, but you ve done that, you know what I mean?
4
SPEAKER_00
Or for what s ahead of you and what it is that you want for your life and you feel
4
SPEAKER_00
the experience of living that you would like to get to.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like you realize, okay, I just kind of have to do this.
4
SPEAKER_01
What do you think, Andrew, is available for you emotionally, internally, and externally in the world as you continue to navigate this healing journey for yourself?
4
SPEAKER_01
What do you feel like is available for you or your mission?
4
SPEAKER_00
I think this is maybe necessary for the work as well too, for being creative.
4
SPEAKER_00
I just want to walk and step with myself in a way that feels aligned with myself and aligned with the work.
4
SPEAKER_00
I guess to feel at peace in whatever the work is that needs to be made.
4
SPEAKER_01
Have you ever been out of alignment with yourself in this last decade with anything you ve created or opportunities you ve said yes to where you felt afterwards, that s not really what I wanted to do?
4
SPEAKER_01
But I did it for ego or because whatever reason.
4
SPEAKER_00
It happens.
4
SPEAKER_00
I won t give examples.
4
SPEAKER_00
It happens.
4
SPEAKER_00
Or you catch yourself.
4
SPEAKER_00
You catch yourself in a thought of like, yeah, there s always this sort of one more stone to turn.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, it s like I always approached things with like, leave no stone unturned.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like, you know, just do everything.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Every opportunity.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
A little bit.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
That can be draining and exhausting.
4
SPEAKER_00
It can be draining, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
And learning to say no to stuff is something that I m still cultivating a relationship with or a habit of.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, or I m a real, and I think this is, I m proud of this trait in myself, but that extra hour that I ll put in or that extra 30 minutes or that extra hour, I can focus, hyper focus on something in those last few, you know, but what happens is sometimes I ll agree to do something.
4
SPEAKER_00
I ll be fully in my mind of like, I do want to do this.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like, will you do a little bit extra here and add more rather than take this break while I use this time to work?
4
SPEAKER_00
And it s like,
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I ll do that.
4
SPEAKER_00
I ll do that.
4
SPEAKER_00
And then afterwards, I realized, OK, why am I feeling exhausted?
4
SPEAKER_00
Why am I burnt out?
4
SPEAKER_00
And now I can t function.
4
SPEAKER_00
I can t work as I want to work.
4
SPEAKER_00
So I do want to address, hopefully, my favorite past.
4
SPEAKER_01
This has been a powerful section.
4
SPEAKER_01
So I m grateful we re talking about this.
4
SPEAKER_01
But I have a question about a couple of the things around your performance experience.
4
SPEAKER_01
I feel like, I hope they get to come watch you perform live sometime because I feel like it s a spiritual experience for the audience to watch what you do.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m curious for you, what has been the most spiritual experience you ve had while performing on stage where you felt like
4
SPEAKER_01
Something is different here.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m feeling something different.
4
SPEAKER_01
There s an energy that is elevated at a different level than I ve ever been to.
4
SPEAKER_01
Or maybe I m seeing myself from a different place.
4
SPEAKER_01
Or I m forgetting the words, but I m singing the words.
4
SPEAKER_01
Was there ever a spiritual experience for you that was so big and awe-inspiring while performing?
4
SPEAKER_00
There s definitely moving experiences.
4
SPEAKER_00
I was going to joke that I think the spiritual experience is to be in the crowd.
4
SPEAKER_00
I ve been in shows and I ve been in such elation.
4
SPEAKER_00
I ve been so ecstatic and kind of lifted by being in crowd energy and all enjoying the same thing.
4
SPEAKER_00
And maybe I was going to make a joke.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s like the preacher is the least spiritual of all people.
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, the person at the top, everyone else is engaging in the spiritual experience.
4
SPEAKER_00
The half preacher is, I m just kidding.
4
SPEAKER_00
But I think when I m on stage, there s a kind of a flow state, you know, that you hope to come into.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s another thing where it s like calming my mind.
4
SPEAKER_00
And this is all connected.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s all connected with mental health.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s all connected with like wellness, but then also like mindfulness as well, too.
4
SPEAKER_00
And mindfulness was a big change for me.
4
SPEAKER_00
It was realizing how many conversations were going on, how unpleasant my mind was, you know, even sometimes when I was on stage and wanting to just.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, it can happen.
4
SPEAKER_00
It can happen.
4
SPEAKER_00
And realizing I
4
SPEAKER_00
you know, remaining grounded on stage, remaining present on stage.
4
SPEAKER_00
So meditating before a show is, I find, really, really helpful.
4
SPEAKER_00
How would you get distracted on stage before?
4
SPEAKER_00
It can happen where, again, if I m releasing music, there s a lot of emails that I haven t answered.
4
SPEAKER_01
Right before you re like, oh, thinking about it.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
But you could be on stage in the middle of a song playing a chord and singing lyrics.
4
SPEAKER_00
And in your mind, I m not present in that.
4
SPEAKER_00
I m thinking it s happened where I m like, I didn t email back.
4
SPEAKER_00
Come on.
4
SPEAKER_00
Really?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
100%.
4
SPEAKER_00
Holy cow.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Oh, no.
4
SPEAKER_00
You re doing laundry lists in your head while you re in the middle of, like, singing a song and the crowd are doing their thing.
4
SPEAKER_00
How is that even possible?
4
SPEAKER_01
I mean, how can you create a performance while thinking about the email you got to send to Larry and management or something?
4
SPEAKER_00
It s not great.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I think the show, my worry is that the show, I think because it s muscle memory, that you just can do it.
4
SPEAKER_00
But you don t feel great about the show because you weren t present.
4
SPEAKER_00
So it s been a while now since I would.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s when my mind was totally just like haywire.
4
SPEAKER_00
So mindfulness, meditation and stuff.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I m super happy.
4
SPEAKER_00
That helps you keep you present now on stage.
4
SPEAKER_00
On stage, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
So as for spiritual experience, definitely.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, I was in Mexico recently.
4
SPEAKER_00
We just did a show in Mexico.
4
SPEAKER_00
Where, which city?
4
SPEAKER_00
Mexico City.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh man, I ve been going back and forth.
4
SPEAKER_01
My fiancé s Mexican, so I ve been going back and forth a lot.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yes, congratulations.
4
SPEAKER_00
Thanks, man.
4
SPEAKER_00
Thanks.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, Mexico s beautiful.
4
SPEAKER_00
I love it, man.
4
SPEAKER_00
Mexico City s incredible, right?
4
SPEAKER_00
Yes, yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
I love it.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s beautiful, and the people are just so wonderful.
4
SPEAKER_00
I have never, and no disrespect to any other audience, but there is something special about a Mexican audience like that.
4
SPEAKER_00
Now, we have a tour and they re touring South America.
4
SPEAKER_00
Here that Central and South America are incredible audiences.
4
SPEAKER_01
We have a YouTube channel in Spanish with over a million subscribers in Spanish that
5
SPEAKER_00
This will be dubbed in Spanish as well.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, really?
5
SPEAKER_00
And Portuguese.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, wow.
5
SPEAKER_00
So the Spanish channel watching or listening right now, I m sure they re all typing in the chat, this is incredible.
5
SPEAKER_00
They re going to love you saying Mexico s amazing.
5
SPEAKER_01
I m delighted.
5
SPEAKER_01
And it s absolutely true.
5
SPEAKER_01
I think I said it on, there s something special.
5
SPEAKER_01
There is a passion.
5
SPEAKER_01
There is an energy.
5
SPEAKER_01
There is.
5
SPEAKER_01
But to be in a city or a country that is not primarily English speaking and to hear your words, to be so far from home and hear your words sang back to you.
5
SPEAKER_01
My first gig in Mexico City was very, very same in that songs were being sang to me louder than had ever been sang in other primarily English speaking territories.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I was stunned by it.
5
SPEAKER_01
I was absolutely staggered by it.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it s not their first language.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so when my first gig in Mexico, I was like, this is nuts.
5
SPEAKER_01
I d never heard a crowd singing this song.
5
SPEAKER_01
I can t remember which song it was, but some songs crowds will sing it to, some not so much.
5
SPEAKER_01
I was staggered by it.
5
SPEAKER_01
So this time around, it was just a few days ago, like last week.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, man.
5
SPEAKER_00
If I d have known, I would have gone to him.
5
SPEAKER_01
Not at all.
5
SPEAKER_01
But performing a song called Cherry Wine and the crowd had done something really sweet.
5
SPEAKER_01
They d handed out these red pieces of paper to put in front of their phone lights.
5
SPEAKER_01
So the song was called Cherry Wine.
5
SPEAKER_01
So they had all these kind of cherry red kind of cards that they lit the auditorium with and with their phones and they were just singing the song back, like louder than really I d ever heard it.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I just had one of those moments where I was absolutely present.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I sort of at the same time was just like, this is nuts.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like I wrote this song.
5
SPEAKER_01
I think I brought myself back to I was maybe 22 when I wrote that song.
5
SPEAKER_01
And and I just kind of reminding myself, it s like I wrote this once and I played it like to, you know, a little bar and I remember the first time playing this live, like I just was brought back to, you know, I was present in two moments of like of
5
SPEAKER_01
the beginning of that song and writing it first and performing it first and just now.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I was just, I was really moved by it.
5
SPEAKER_01
I kind of had to, you know, I was quite touched by that support and that love.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so, yeah, there s moments where, I don t know if you d call it spiritual necessarily, but just overwhelmingly fulfilling, you know, overwhelmingly
5
SPEAKER_00
good feeling.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s beautiful.
5
SPEAKER_00
That seems like a spiritual experience for me, man.
5
SPEAKER_00
You almost like leaped in time, 14 years, I guess, thinking about when you were writing this in your parents  attic or wherever you were at the time, playing it at a pub for 17 people.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
And now people screaming it across the world back at you.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
I was grateful also after the fact that I still could be, that feeling was still fresh for me.
5
SPEAKER_01
And then I could allow myself into going, you know what, this is really sweet, and I m really enjoying this.
5
SPEAKER_00
How do you keep it fresh when you re doing 100, 200 tour nights a year, singing the same songs over and over for over a decade?
5
SPEAKER_00
How do you stay present when it s not new for you, even though it might be new for someone else?
5
SPEAKER_01
I think that the challenge is staying present.
5
SPEAKER_01
And honestly, if you can stay present, this is, it s like the same where your morning, all of us have to get up out of bed.
5
SPEAKER_01
All of us probably get up, brush our teeth, we ll make coffee, we ll whatever, get in the car and go to work, whatever, you know what I mean?
5
SPEAKER_01
Or like go about our day.
5
SPEAKER_01
You know, I don t, I don t commute necessarily, but like we all have that little, you know,
5
SPEAKER_01
We all have that thing where it s like those parts of the day which are so commonplace to us that we do them in auto mode.
5
SPEAKER_01
And if you can steer the brain into presence and your experience of that drive to work
5
SPEAKER_01
wherever your appointment, your errands, is going to be like so much more engaging.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s going to be an experience in and of itself.
5
SPEAKER_01
You ll actually experience the world around you.
5
SPEAKER_01
This is so easy.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s so much easier said than done, you know, when you re talking about mindfulness.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I think on stage, if I can be present in a song, it doesn t matter if I m truly present in that moment and I m letting
5
SPEAKER_01
the energy of the crowd kind of come through to me and through me and the energy of the song, whatever, if I m kind of allowing a flow of that and I m present in it, it doesn t really matter if I ve sang that, you know, a hundred times or a thousand times or whatever, five times.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s like I m just present in it.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I think that s it s a challenge.
5
SPEAKER_00
Wow.
5
SPEAKER_00
We had Rick Rubin on recently, who is a big producer.
5
SPEAKER_00
He s Rick Rubin, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Wrote a big book on creativity.
5
SPEAKER_01
I listened to the episode as well, by the way.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, he s inspiring.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, Rick Rubin is... Have you met him?
5
SPEAKER_00
I have never met Rick Rubin.
5
SPEAKER_00
He s inspiring, man.
5
SPEAKER_00
What a force.
5
SPEAKER_00
He was mentioning something about, you know, an artist should really be thinking about writing art for themselves as if it was their own diary, their own journal.
5
SPEAKER_00
and not writing art or making art for an audience, but making it for themselves, and being willing to reveal it to the audience without the insecurity or concern of their own intimate thoughts and feelings around their piece of art, which is probably one of the hardest things to do, is putting out your soul that you re really making for you, but wanting others to experience it
5
SPEAKER_00
without being worried about criticism.
5
SPEAKER_00
How do you navigate putting art out there and being like, oh, I hope people like this and they don t give me negative feedback versus people are going to like it or hate it or whatever, they re going to respond to it.
5
SPEAKER_00
How do you navigate you feeling good about it, no matter what happens to it in the world?
5
SPEAKER_01
I will say before releasing,
5
SPEAKER_01
It s not so much a fear, but there s this sort of, there s this, maybe I don t experience actually where the fear is coming from, but there s a terrible unease.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I think usually before releasing an album, there s this awful purge of cortisol that happens.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I ve talked to a lot of artists about this, where you re in tears before it happens and you re exhausted.
5
SPEAKER_01
And there s catharsis that you d hoped you would get from it.
5
SPEAKER_01
never arrives, you know.
5
SPEAKER_01
So there is that.
5
SPEAKER_01
I think there has to be, maybe there s just, there is some resource that you pull from that brings you to a place where you are in absolute commitment to
5
SPEAKER_01
the fact that the work needs to exist.
5
SPEAKER_01
It doesn t matter what anybody has to say.
5
SPEAKER_01
The song wants to be written.
5
SPEAKER_01
The song has, in some ways, and I sometimes think of it like this when an idea comes through, the song is asking to be written.
5
SPEAKER_01
It feels ready to be worked on.
5
SPEAKER_01
And to deny that is kind of, it s going against your nature, what you know you kind of have to do, what you have decided you re here to do.
5
SPEAKER_01
And so there s something that is willing to be made.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s willing itself to be made through you.
5
SPEAKER_01
And it s like you either do it or don t.
5
SPEAKER_01
But don t, sorry, excuse me, don t get annoyed when somebody else has the idea.
5
SPEAKER_01
Because a lot of parallel thinking in the world as well, too.
5
SPEAKER_01
And someone else is going to put something similar out.
5
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
And that actually happens.
5
SPEAKER_01
I mean, artists talk about this.
5
SPEAKER_01
I ve certainly experienced it.
5
SPEAKER_01
You have an idea for a song, and six months later, you hear it on the radio, and somebody else has played with the themes that you were thinking of.
5
SPEAKER_01
And we re all living in similar societies.
5
SPEAKER_01
So a lot of parallel thinking comes in because we all have very similar stimulus, whatever it is.
5
SPEAKER_01
you have to, there has to, I don t know, there is a resource that you pull from that is just, you know, that needs to be made.
5
SPEAKER_00
Like, what was it like, you know, when you came out with your first song that was a mega hit?
5
SPEAKER_00
What was the feeling before that launched?
5
SPEAKER_00
Versus, you know, the most recent, Unreal on Earth, you know, is the feeling still the same?
5
SPEAKER_00
You know, 12 years later, is there a different feeling at this season of life as an artist?
5
SPEAKER_00
Um, you know, before you launched the recent album.
5
SPEAKER_01
And the feeling on the first song, I was so like, I was such an unknown and that I just was watching its, its uptake slowly.
5
SPEAKER_01
But surely there was these moments where, okay, it was reaching another audience.
5
SPEAKER_01
So it s like, Oh my God, it s like, that s a video has been seen by 10,000 people.
5
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God, that was a huge deal for me at the time.
5
SPEAKER_01
And
6
SPEAKER_00
I think it was like on the first page of Reddit or something, which at the time was like, you know.
6
SPEAKER_00
Huge.
6
SPEAKER_00
It was huge, you know.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then it was starting to be played, I think some of the earliest, I think one of the first radio stations that played it in the States was like Alabama Mountain Radio.
6
SPEAKER_00
And it was being shazammed and we were watching, like somebody was telling me, oh yeah, it s just been shazammed in like parts of the world, parts of the States that I d never been to the States.
6
SPEAKER_00
I d never thought that I would be
6
SPEAKER_00
where the music would be heard.
6
SPEAKER_00
At this point, people in Ireland didn t know that I was an Irish artist, you know.
6
SPEAKER_00
Really?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, honestly.
6
SPEAKER_00
I think the song had started to be played on Irish radio, but they assumed that I was like an American import, you know, that I wasn t.
6
SPEAKER_00
They didn t know that I was from Ireland because I hadn t been releasing music all that long.
6
SPEAKER_00
And then there was this kind of dark sort of gospel rock sound, you know, in that song.
6
SPEAKER_00
This kind of swampy sort of vibe.
6
SPEAKER_00
And yeah, so it s different.
6
SPEAKER_00
I think sometimes you miss being the underdog a little bit.
6
SPEAKER_00
There s a lot to be said for having... Something to that feeling, right?
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, having nothing to lose.
6
SPEAKER_00
The naive, like, oh, this is really exciting.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, exactly.
6
SPEAKER_00
And feeling like every inch you gain is a huge deal and is a big win and you ve nothing to lose.
6
SPEAKER_00
you have, you can prove everything, but also if nothing happens, it s like, it s okay, you know, go away, come back when you re, when you re ready, you know what I mean?
6
SPEAKER_00
But it s, so it s trying to maintain that.
6
SPEAKER_00
Maybe there s, there s something to be, you can still maintain that sort of mindset a little bit of like, I think when you, and this is also maybe something that you can,
6
SPEAKER_00
good to practice or to investigate or think about is when the stakes seem higher or you ve like on your second or third release, you feel like if it doesn t do something for you that it s somehow, you know, it could be a success by the metrics of what you would think beforehand or anyone else s, but you create this idea of
6
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
6
SPEAKER_00
You just, you want more from it or, you know, so that s... How do you navigate that?
6
SPEAKER_01
Like when you launch, you know, an album and it doesn t do the numbers in your mind, you re like, well, I hope it does this many downloads or streams in the first month or year.
6
SPEAKER_01
If it doesn t do that, or if it does do that, how do you navigate that expectation?
6
SPEAKER_00
I think it s always just about, I try to just bring myself right back to, because you do, and you look, you work with, you partner up with business, like labels and stuff like that.
6
SPEAKER_01
And they want it to win.
6
SPEAKER_00
You know, yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
And they re competitive by nature.
6
SPEAKER_00
And it s great that you have a team that thinks like that, that wants to bring your work to a large audience.
6
SPEAKER_00
And there s a lot of different ways that different artists will think about this, independent artists maybe, you know.
6
SPEAKER_00
What I have settled on is that if I believe in the work, I want to give it every chance that it can reach as many years as possible and let those years decide.
6
SPEAKER_00
And I just try to bring it back to the work.
6
SPEAKER_00
Do I believe in it?
6
SPEAKER_00
If I believe in it and I love it,
6
SPEAKER_00
enough that I feel it s worth releasing, it s worth being out in the world.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m at peace with it whether somebody listens to it or it doesn t.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m at peace with it if nobody listens to it.
6
SPEAKER_00
There s some songs that I m quite proud of such that if they weren t heard by a hundred people, I would say that song is still of the quality that I wanted it to be on.
6
SPEAKER_00
The quality of the work doesn t change whether it s listened to, listened by
6
SPEAKER_00
a million people or a billion times, or it s listened by a thousand people or a hundred people or ten people, the quality of the work doesn t change.
6
SPEAKER_00
So I just try to bring it down to, am I happy with its quality?
6
SPEAKER_01
That s beautiful.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think that s a good lesson for any artist or author or anyone.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s like, are you happy with the quality?
6
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
6
SPEAKER_01
If you have a career or a business around it, sure, you want to figure out a way to make money and survive, but I think you have to be proud of the quality of work, no matter if it sells millions of copies or one copy.
6
SPEAKER_01
Totally.
6
SPEAKER_01
Totally.
6
SPEAKER_01
Does it represent you?
6
SPEAKER_01
That s beautiful.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
Man, Andrew, there s a lot I would love to talk more about with you.
6
SPEAKER_01
We ll have to have you back on another time.
6
SPEAKER_01
But I want people to check out your new album, Unreal on Earth.
6
SPEAKER_01
I want them to come to watch you live on Tourman, which I m going to do one of these days.
6
SPEAKER_01
Please do.
6
SPEAKER_01
They can go to hosier.com for your tour dates and everything like that.
6
SPEAKER_01
Is that right?
6
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
6
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
Tour dates.
6
SPEAKER_01
Unfortunately, not many shows left.
6
SPEAKER_01
You can get notified when you do do more.
6
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
6
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
6
SPEAKER_01
But they can listen to music.
6
SPEAKER_01
You re on YouTube, Instagram, social media everywhere.
6
SPEAKER_01
How s your everywhere?
6
SPEAKER_01
How else can we be of service to you and support you today?
6
SPEAKER_00
Oh, my goodness.
6
SPEAKER_00
I think you ve been great.
6
SPEAKER_00
You ve given me a huge amount to think about and offered wonderful space for reflection.
6
SPEAKER_00
But not at all.
6
SPEAKER_00
No.
6
SPEAKER_00
You ve just been your wonderful self.
6
SPEAKER_00
Thanks.
6
SPEAKER_00
Appreciate it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
6
SPEAKER_00
Thank you for inviting me in.
6
SPEAKER_00
Of course.
6
SPEAKER_01
Leading always with a very, very open heart.
6
SPEAKER_01
Of course, man.
6
SPEAKER_01
We re doing it together, man.
6
SPEAKER_01
I ve got two final questions for you.
6
SPEAKER_01
But I want people to go to your website.
6
SPEAKER_01
Where s the best place to listen to your music?
6
SPEAKER_01
Is it Spotify?
6
SPEAKER_01
Is it on your website?
6
SPEAKER_01
Where do you recommend people listen?
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, you can listen on Spotify, you can listen on Tidal.
6
SPEAKER_01
Where s your preferred place?
6
SPEAKER_00
Does it matter?
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, the sound quality on Tidal is better.
6
SPEAKER_00
I m sorry, Spotify.
6
SPEAKER_00
Look, it just is.
6
SPEAKER_00
And, you know, like vinyl is obviously going to be the best.
6
SPEAKER_00
I mean, honestly, I don t really mind, I think, anywhere that people want to listen to it, if they enjoy it, if they re vibing with it.
6
SPEAKER_00
Thrill.
6
SPEAKER_01
Anyway, yeah, yeah.
6
SPEAKER_01
Share with your friends, listen to it, share with your kids.
6
SPEAKER_01
Before I ask these final two questions, Andrew, I want to acknowledge you, because I know it s hard for you to receive compliments, but I want to acknowledge you for the journey you re on.
6
SPEAKER_01
I think
6
SPEAKER_01
I think artists have a big opportunity to inspire and impact, but I also think there s a lot of pressure for artists to be the perfect role model and say all the perfect things all the time, especially at younger ages.
6
SPEAKER_01
So I want to acknowledge you for your journey of being true to yourself and sharing your art with the world, having the courage to make art and put it out there, even if it s nervous for you, even if you get scared before you go on stage, and you keep showing up for the little Andrew in you, the current Andrew in you,
6
SPEAKER_01
and for the audiences that love the art that you ve created for yourself.
6
SPEAKER_01
So I want to acknowledge you for your journey and being willing to reflect and look within over these last few years for yourself and allowing yourself to heal or navigate whatever emotions you re feeling so hopefully you can continue to serve in a bigger way to humanity and yourself and your friends for many years to come.
6
SPEAKER_01
So I acknowledge you for all of it, Andrew.
6
SPEAKER_01
And just really, really great to meet you and pleasure to have you on.
6
SPEAKER_01
You too.
6
SPEAKER_01
You too.
6
SPEAKER_01
Of course.
6
SPEAKER_01
Okay, two final questions.
6
SPEAKER_01
This is called The Three Truths.
6
SPEAKER_01
It s a hypothetical scenario.
6
SPEAKER_01
Imagine you get to live as long as you want, but it s your last day on Earth.
6
SPEAKER_01
Live as long as I want, but it s the last day on Earth?
6
SPEAKER_01
So you re 100, you re 200, however old you want to be.
6
SPEAKER_01
We re going into the future.
6
SPEAKER_01
And you get to create all your dreams.
6
SPEAKER_01
They all come true.
6
SPEAKER_01
You make the art, you have the family, the lifestyle, whatever it is you want to have, you create it.
6
SPEAKER_01
But for whatever reason, on this final day of life, you have to take all of your work with you.
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So all of your music, we don t have access to it anymore.
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This conversation, gone.
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Hypothetical.
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Anything you create, for whatever reason, you got to take it with you to the next place when you pass on.
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Hypothetical scenario.
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But you get to leave behind in this final day three lessons, three things you know to be true and you feel is true for you that you would leave with the world.
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And this is all we have to remember you by, your content.
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If you can, like you went back in time when you were on stage thinking of that song that you wrote 10, 12 years prior, and you felt that time playing it in the pub for the first time on stage 12 years later when everyone s screaming it back to you.
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If you can jump forward,
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Seventy eighty a hundred years to the final day and think about all the lessons you ll have learned What would be those three lessons or truths for you?
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I m gonna finish with an easy question So easy, oh my god, I was like and three lessons or three truths and
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I would say one is, is to, and this is difficult for a lot of people, I think, in, in the kind of hyper real spaces or the, or the, what like spaces like social media and stuff like that, you know, um, is, is remembering that each human being that you are witnessing their lived experience is as, is as,
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is as authentic and as deep and as real as your own.
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That their suffering and their internal narrative, whatever, whether they ve done their healing or they haven t done their healing yet, that they re experiencing a lived experience that is as deep, at times as dark and as frightening as your own.
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And the reality of that
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Yeah, just to remind yourself of the reality of that.
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I would like to say that at the same time, and this is something I kind of borrow from this Seamus Heaney s Nobel, when he won the Nobel Prize in his speech, it s a beautiful lecture.
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It s called Crediting Poetry.
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and he references a massacre from Northern Ireland.
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And in this he s referencing a massacre that took place.
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And he talks about a poem and what the poem knows essentially.
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in the same way that the poem can credit, it bears witness to, in this one instance, it can bear witness to, bears witness to and knows a massacre is going to happen in its telling of this story.
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It also must and can at the same time bear witness to and credit the gentleness in this instance of the comforting of one person, the squeeze of a hand,
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In this instance, I encourage anybody to read his crediting poetry lecture, this I Will Not Abandon You squeeze of the hand that happens between these two co-workers just before the massacre takes place.
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And so he describes this beautifully as at the same time that the work can credit, and we often do, we credit and we bear witness to and we represent and we tell the story of
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of the horror and the hatred and the massacre.
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At the same time, we can, and maybe it s imperative that we credit that there is the squeeze of the hand.
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There is the tear that comes from a place of love and comes from a place of compassion and empathy.
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So it s, you know, I would say the actuality
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of love, the actuality of solidarity, not in any sort of wishy-washy, sort of airy-fairy type thing.
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We don t question the actuality of violence.
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We don t question the actuality of hatred.
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We don t really take seriously the actuality of solidarity that we think of it in the sort of lofty political terms, but it s like the love that you have for your neighbour or your spouse or your child or your best friend that s showing up for people that I won t abandon you in this, you know.
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And in the same way that a work can credit one, it can and must credit the other.
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That s a beautiful thought that I would say that there s a truth in that.
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We re in a limited space.
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We re on a limited rock here.
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I often think that the ways that we go about and deal in business, we work with different people in business.
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And there is in this moment a kind of a perpetual
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And look, I don t want to get too political, but we sometimes think in terms of this sort of secular trance of the perpetual growth model.
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We re on a limited space here.
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There is a commons that we all share in the world, that it is, and I think
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Um, I just think it s, it s a, there is a huge amount still of investigation and really like investment into the thinking of, of viewing the world as a, as a commons, as a shared space that we just have to have to, um, that we can t just extract from, that we ll have to arrive at some point to some sustainability practice.
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Be that sustainable economics, sustainable resource management, et cetera.
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That s something that.
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really, and again, it s in the abstract, increasingly not in the abstract, but I get so sad at the idea of, for what humanity is and how far, the chance of this earth becoming what it s become.
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Us as human beings, us evolving into this, to have awareness, to have meaning, to have a sense.
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And the fact that we could actually be at risk of, potentially, to the point where
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you know, we consume ourselves into some sort of, into some dark age or into an extinction event, you know, it s like really very sad.
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Overconsumption of everything, yeah.
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Yeah, it just makes me very, very sad that we could lose
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Yeah, the progress of society as we know it.
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So yeah, I think that was one other thing.
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I probably had something far more nice.
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It s all good, man.
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More artistic to say than that.
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But yeah, that s that.
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It s all good.
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It s beautiful, man.
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Andrew, final question for you.
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What is your definition of greatness?
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I think, again, it s a tricky one for me.
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And it is a commitment to
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one s mode of being that is, it s a mode of being.
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It s a commitment to an alignment of the heart and the mind and the spirit in either the work that you make, in the way that you deal with people, in the way that you engage with your community,
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And I think it s one that is, to me, I have no sheer definition, but it s one that is marked with a
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a mode of grace and good faith.
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Look, it s not always easy, but I think if you can bring that to the work that you re making or the engagements that you re having in the day to day, good faith and good grace with people around you.
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And in some form of alignment with your heart, mind and body, great.
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I think that is, if you can maintain that mode of being, I think we all know people who ve managed to do that.
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And there s people in our lives that we witness sometimes and we re like, wow, you know what, that s a really great person.
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And it may not be that they are
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you know, on the way to some sort of what we imagine to be success or something like that, or some sort of like global or international sense of, you know, it s not that they re achieving some outrageous monetary or financial success, but there is in their being something that we just, we can t help but admire that they are either in their community or in their family, to their friends, in their place of work.
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that there is something undeniably great about that person.
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And I think those, to me, are some of the markers of it.
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Andrew.
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There you go.
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My man.
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Andrew, thanks for being here, brother.
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Thank you very much.
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Really appreciate it.
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Powerful, man.
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I hope you enjoyed today s episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness.
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Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today s episode with all the important links.
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And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel.
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exclusively on Apple Podcasts.
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Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well.
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Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review.
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I really love hearing feedback from you, and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward.
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And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately, that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.
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And now, it s time to go out there and do something great.