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Happy Valentine s Day!
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SPEAKER_00
Valentine s!
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It s nice and crisp.
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SPEAKER_00
What is your perfect weather?
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SPEAKER_00
I mean, in Celsius?
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SPEAKER_00
Oh, 20.
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SPEAKER_00
Which is?
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SPEAKER_00
Pretty much today.
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SPEAKER_00
So what is that, like 60?
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SPEAKER_00
That sounds about right.
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SPEAKER_01
You still do Celsius, even though you ve been here for this long?
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SPEAKER_00
It s really the last frontier.
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SPEAKER_00
I know that 80 feels warm, but not hot.
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SPEAKER_00
Okay.
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SPEAKER_00
It s currently 57 degrees out.
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SPEAKER_00
Oh wow, so we were right.
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SPEAKER_00
Around 60 you like.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and it s a little lower than 20 actually right now.
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SPEAKER_00
So that makes sense.
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SPEAKER_01
What s your ideal temp?
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SPEAKER_01
My ideal temp is 78.
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SPEAKER_01
I like it hot.
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SPEAKER_00
I like it hot too, but I like layers.
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SPEAKER_00
I feel like if it s 20, especially an LA 20 is different than anywhere else 20 or 60.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, sure.
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SPEAKER_00
But you re cozy.
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SPEAKER_01
I can wear my cozy clothes.
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SPEAKER_01
That s true.
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SPEAKER_01
I feel like I wear sweaters and sweatpants and stuff even when it s hot.
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SPEAKER_00
I think both of our body temperatures run low if we get cold easily.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, definitely, definitely, definitely.
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SPEAKER_00
How s your week?
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SPEAKER_00
It s good.
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SPEAKER_00
What s been going on?
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SPEAKER_00
I don t even know.
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SPEAKER_00
Well, we can t talk about Super Bowl, but…
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SPEAKER_00
Maybe we could if there s something to talk about.
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SPEAKER_00
Did you watch the whole thing?
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SPEAKER_00
I did.
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SPEAKER_00
And I learned the rules.
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SPEAKER_00
That s great.
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SPEAKER_00
The Swifties, We ve Done Something Right, or Tailspin as really— I mean, that s kind of a huge theme right now, that girls watch it with their dads for the first time and, like, we re into football for the first time.
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SPEAKER_00
I couldn t watch by the end.
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SPEAKER_00
I was too nervous for the players.
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SPEAKER_01
You were stressed.
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SPEAKER_01
You got into it.
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SPEAKER_00
I got into it.
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SPEAKER_00
That s great.
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SPEAKER_00
And then I saw them with a little confetti falling on them and the ones that lost and I was like, that s why I don t do this.
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SPEAKER_00
It was hard.
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SPEAKER_01
Did you get into it?
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SPEAKER_01
No.
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SPEAKER_01
I went to a friend s to watch it and then I mainly sat outside.
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SPEAKER_01
We were just chatting.
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SPEAKER_01
This was a big party.
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SPEAKER_01
And...
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SPEAKER_01
Then I went home after halftime to work.
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SPEAKER_01
I assumed, wrongly, I assumed the Chiefs were going to lose based on when I left.
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SPEAKER_01
And so when I just randomly looked it up, I was like, oh, it got good.
0
SPEAKER_01
No, it did.
0
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, which is a bummer that I didn t stick it out.
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SPEAKER_01
but I ve been catching up on the commercials.
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SPEAKER_01
I saw my boyfriend s had a commercial.
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SPEAKER_01
Yes, they did.
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SPEAKER_01
Which was really exciting.
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SPEAKER_01
And it was Sim because today we put out an episode of Flightless Bird of Donut.
0
SPEAKER_01
Right.
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SPEAKER_00
That was my dad did that.
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SPEAKER_01
for sure.
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SPEAKER_00
He s been doing a lot.
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SPEAKER_00
He s been working hard lately.
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SPEAKER_01
He s been busy.
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SPEAKER_01
How s your week?
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SPEAKER_01
My week has been good.
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SPEAKER_01
Let s see.
0
SPEAKER_01
Since we did our concerts, what has happened?
0
SPEAKER_01
I had dinner with, oh, Anthony.
0
SPEAKER_01
Shout out, Anthony.
0
SPEAKER_01
A belated little birthday thing for him.
0
SPEAKER_01
I was bringing up what we talked about last week, which he obviously didn t hear because he doesn t listen, which was basically this lean Dion Taylor Swift thing and just how everyone s looking for every little problem.
0
SPEAKER_01
And we were talking about that.
0
SPEAKER_01
We were talking about, in general, just podcasts and guests.
0
SPEAKER_01
And he said, did you see the thing Tina Fey said?
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SPEAKER_01
Oh.
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SPEAKER_01
Did you see?
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SPEAKER_01
I did.
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SPEAKER_01
Oh, on Bo and Yang s podcast.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, on Bo and Yang.
0
SPEAKER_00
And I want to play it.
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SPEAKER_00
Good idea.
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SPEAKER_00
Also, I was like, Tina Fey, my timeline.
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SPEAKER_00
I love it.
0
SPEAKER_00
I ll take it.
0
SPEAKER_02
I don t think so, honey.
0
SPEAKER_02
Bowen Yang giving his real opinions about movies on this podcast.
0
SPEAKER_02
I regret to inform you that you are too famous now, sir.
0
SPEAKER_02
What s gonna happen?
0
SPEAKER_02
You having a problem with salt burn?
0
SPEAKER_02
Quiet luxury.
0
SPEAKER_02
Keep it to yourself, because what are you gonna do when Emerald Fennel calls you about her next project, where you play Carrie Mulligan s coworker in the bridal section of Harrods, and then act three takes a sexually violent turn, and you have to pretend to be surprised by that turn.
0
SPEAKER_02
You hang out with Ariana and Spongebob, now that is your life.
0
SPEAKER_02
Okay, and Matt Rogers, I can tell you, you got about one year left, and then you, yes, learn from my mistakes, learn from Ayo.
0
SPEAKER_02
Podcasts are forever.
0
SPEAKER_02
Authenticity is dangerous and expensive.
0
SPEAKER_02
I don t think so, honey.
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SPEAKER_01
I mean, I love her more than anything.
0
SPEAKER_01
And she s right, but wow, the line authenticity is dangerous and expensive.
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SPEAKER_01
It s so honest, and it is so depressing.
0
SPEAKER_00
Tina Fey, I don t know her personally, so I m totally making up a story here that could be wrong, but her last really in-the-spotlight moment, where I feel like there was a shift since then, was the whole sheet cake SNL bit.
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SPEAKER_00
Do you remember that?
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SPEAKER_00
During the Trump years?
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SPEAKER_00
And she did a sketch on SNL where she s just eating cake.
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SPEAKER_00
I don t remember the details of it.
0
SPEAKER_00
It was either like, I can t deal with the world, basically.
0
SPEAKER_00
I can t go to another protest.
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SPEAKER_00
I m just going to eat cake, basically.
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SPEAKER_00
You know?
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a joke about the overwhelm that a lot of people were feeling.
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SPEAKER_00
And it s SNL, and she s literally eating cake.
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SPEAKER_00
You know, it s her job.
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SPEAKER_00
And so there was this huge backlash at the time saying, this is white women who have the luxury.
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SPEAKER_00
I mean, I never jumped on that bandwagon.
0
SPEAKER_00
Like, I just— Oh, this is white women who are choosing to opt out?
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SPEAKER_00
White women have the privilege to be able to eat cake and not do anything.
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SPEAKER_00
People of color don t, which obviously is an important idea.
0
SPEAKER_00
I m not sure taking it out on Tina Fey— On an SNL sketch.
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SPEAKER_00
Yeah, and honestly, I feel that since then, she has not really been in the spotlight in the same way that she was before that.
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SPEAKER_00
I feel like it s been a long time.
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SPEAKER_01
I mean, I think she s been very smart and kind of calculated her whole career about this.
0
SPEAKER_01
Like she ll go on Seth and she ll go on like her friend shows and stuff and do small bits, but I ve never known her to
0
SPEAKER_01
be very forward-facing about something or an opinion.
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SPEAKER_00
She was pretty, I mean, to be fair, like even I, so I did women s studies.
0
SPEAKER_00
I did an entire term paper on 30 Rock, like how 30 Rock embodied post-feminist theory.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s using art to do it.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s a much different thing.
0
SPEAKER_00
Well, even on SNL.
0
SPEAKER_00
But again, that s not her.
0
SPEAKER_00
Her as a comedian.
0
SPEAKER_00
On SNL, she, like the report, the- Weekend Update, yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
Weekend Update, they re not playing characters necessarily.
0
SPEAKER_01
But anyway, I get what you mean.
0
SPEAKER_01
It is different than going on a podcast and talking about a movie or your opinion on something.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
0
SPEAKER_00
I just viewed her as a very outspoken feminist figure before that.
0
SPEAKER_00
And then after that, she just was not front-facing.
0
SPEAKER_00
Again, not that she was the most outspoken person that was speaking out on all things, but I did feel that that was like a shift.
0
SPEAKER_00
And again, I think that when I heard that podcast interview, I was like,
0
SPEAKER_00
that probably was like a lesson for her.
0
SPEAKER_00
To me, that speaks to that moment for her.
0
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, we don t know.
0
SPEAKER_01
She probably won t come on to talk about it.
0
SPEAKER_01
But I think what she said is really correct.
0
SPEAKER_01
But only if you care about
0
SPEAKER_01
Like, she s saying, like, what happens if Emeril calls you?
0
SPEAKER_01
You have to decide you don t care if she calls.
0
SPEAKER_01
That s the thing.
0
SPEAKER_01
I guess you have to have enough security in your position in this world, which she has, to just say, like, fuck it.
0
SPEAKER_01
I don t care if anyone else ever calls me again.
0
SPEAKER_01
I ll still do stuff, or I ll put stuff out, or I will be in charge of my life and my thoughts.
0
SPEAKER_01
But I can t care about climbing in this business.
0
SPEAKER_01
And once you give that up, I think authenticity is not expensive or dangerous.
0
SPEAKER_01
It s just authenticity.
0
SPEAKER_00
That s a really interesting question, right?
0
SPEAKER_00
Like, can we be authentic anymore?
0
SPEAKER_00
And how expensive is it?
0
SPEAKER_00
I certainly feel like I can be less authentic than I was like five years ago.
0
SPEAKER_00
In a short amount of time, I think that we ve turned on each other and expected so much out of people.
0
SPEAKER_00
And there s so much more scrutiny and the precision with which we analyze people and that we re constantly being watched.
0
SPEAKER_01
That s the thing.
0
SPEAKER_01
You almost have to, you can t care about getting picked apart or getting, which will inevitably happen if you say what you think.
0
SPEAKER_01
So it s deciding not to care.
0
SPEAKER_01
And it is the thing that got Trump elected.
0
SPEAKER_00
It s already going to bring up Trump.
0
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
0
SPEAKER_01
What got him elected is a lot of people thinking like, well, you fucking can t say anything.
0
SPEAKER_01
You can t say what you feel.
0
SPEAKER_01
And this guy is giving me an outlet to say what I feel.
0
SPEAKER_01
So I m doing it.
0
SPEAKER_01
I just wish there was a more bird s-eye-view outlook on some of this picking apart of our own.
0
SPEAKER_00
Of like people that we know are fundamentally good.
0
SPEAKER_01
I think it s a different story if it s someone that s not fundamentally bad, but that is doing it on purpose or... Making actively bad decisions that hurt people is a different thing than picking apart people for no reason and for your own entertainment and saying like,
0
SPEAKER_01
That s bad to say or you shouldn t say that and then that just makes those people go away or go in the opposite direction.
0
SPEAKER_00
We re gonna find out.
0
SPEAKER_01
I know.
0
SPEAKER_00
Scary.
0
SPEAKER_00
Would you feel like you can be authentic?
0
SPEAKER_00
For the most part, yes, I do.
0
SPEAKER_01
Who knows?
0
SPEAKER_01
Who knows?
1
SPEAKER_02
Life is long, and I m not that old, but I don t know.
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, there are definitely things I feel that I can t say.
1
SPEAKER_02
Say them.
1
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
1
SPEAKER_02
Let s say all the things.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_02
So I guess in some ways that s true.
1
SPEAKER_02
But I also feel like we don t have to have an opinion on everything.
1
SPEAKER_02
That part.
1
SPEAKER_02
I also don t need to say everything, I think.
1
SPEAKER_02
I wonder if that s a millennial trait.
1
SPEAKER_02
Because I remember being in school and being taught to have an opinion.
1
SPEAKER_02
We d read a section of something, and then we d write our opinion about it.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think that s very good, especially for women.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s giving agency and saying, you re allowed to have thoughts on this, and you should have a thought on this.
1
SPEAKER_02
You should decide something about this.
1
SPEAKER_02
I think maybe us growing up like that has put us in this position now with all these external, you know, monsters like social media and things that have caused the opinion meter to just be at 100 at all times because there s so many things to have an opinion on and we re trained to.
1
SPEAKER_02
I mean, this is like a generous take that we re just programmed to have an opinion because we were taught to.
1
SPEAKER_01
To me, the problem is not that people have opinions.
1
SPEAKER_01
The problem is that we think that having different opinions is bad.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think having different opinions is great.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, exactly.
1
SPEAKER_01
And if we re talking about term papers and, like, being in high school, like, we were encouraged to debate.
1
SPEAKER_01
We were encouraged to talk things out and to be able to argue respectfully.
1
SPEAKER_01
And now it s like any disagreement is viewed as this horrible thing and, again, can lead to horrible things, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
Like people losing jobs and friendships ending and all these things, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
And so what I m trying to do right now is really increase my capacity for discomfort.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I feel that my ability to tolerate someone who has a different opinion than me, it s really bad.
1
SPEAKER_01
I think a lot of this started like 10 years ago.
1
SPEAKER_01
I just feel like I had a different brain in 2015.
1
SPEAKER_01
It was just not as— More open?
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, or it wasn t life-ending if someone had a different stance on something.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I think that there was more gray areas, more nuance.
1
SPEAKER_01
And again, we always reminisce and we remember the past being like much better than it was, but I do think that it s just been hyper-polarized.
1
SPEAKER_01
And I mean, we all have this bias where we remember information that confirms our opinions.
1
SPEAKER_01
More than information than doesn t.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, confirmation bias.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s real.
1
SPEAKER_01
And so you have to kind of actively fight that.
1
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
1
SPEAKER_01
I m trying to do that on a personal level.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s hard.
1
SPEAKER_01
And like with dating, it s okay that this person has a really different view.
1
SPEAKER_01
Again, I m not going to tolerate someone, you know, having an opinion that dehumanizes me or something like that, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
Right.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I m really trying to be open.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I think we have been conflating opinions and values.
1
SPEAKER_02
Right.
1
SPEAKER_02
Because people are allowed to have different opinions.
1
SPEAKER_02
I do think if you re dating someone or you re spending a lot of time around someone, it s okay to hope that they share your values.
1
SPEAKER_02
And in fact, I think that s fundamental to what s going to be a long lasting relationship.
1
SPEAKER_02
You have to know that values are shared, but opinions fluctuate and change so much within that.
1
SPEAKER_02
We think they re the same thing and they re not.
1
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
1
SPEAKER_01
There s this thing of we think that our errors
1
SPEAKER_01
are not our intention.
1
SPEAKER_01
And we think that other people s errors are their intention, like they deliberately, you know, and we make up reasons without even knowing it.
1
SPEAKER_01
It s mostly subconscious.
1
SPEAKER_01
Oh, this person believes this because of all these things.
1
SPEAKER_01
But in many cases, it s just the same value, but a flipped way to sort of approach that value.
1
SPEAKER_01
And that means you have to ask questions and like actually want to listen to the answer.
1
SPEAKER_01
I was doing all this research about like, are we are in our avoidant era, just the increase, like there s literally been an increase in like avoidantly attached people.
1
SPEAKER_01
And we re less tolerant than our grandparents were.
1
SPEAKER_01
There s like data really to support these feelings that we re feeling.
1
SPEAKER_01
But I think just knowing that it s happening helps us have strategies in order to address it and hopefully change it.
1
SPEAKER_02
I want to call Jess.
1
SPEAKER_02
We re going to do part two of pens because he didn t pick up and it s important that he speak for himself.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s been on my mind.
1
SPEAKER_02
Ready?
1
SPEAKER_02
Let s see if he ll pick up.
1
SPEAKER_02
Hi, you picked up.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yay.
1
SPEAKER_02
We re recording and I wanted you to speak on the pens because you didn t get a chance to last week.
1
SPEAKER_02
I didn t want to put words in your mouth.
1
SPEAKER_00
Hi, Liz.
1
SPEAKER_00
Hi, Jess.
1
SPEAKER_00
It s not even about the money.
1
SPEAKER_00
We only get three pens.
1
SPEAKER_00
And every single time newer servers ask managers for another pen, they roll their eyes and we get shamed for it.
1
SPEAKER_00
You re losing your pens.
1
SPEAKER_00
You re not handling your payments correctly.
1
SPEAKER_00
You re not grabbing your checks.
1
SPEAKER_00
So every time someone steals one of our pens, it s annoying.
1
SPEAKER_00
And plenty of times guests have asked me, I love this pen, may I have it?
1
SPEAKER_00
And every single time I say yes.
1
SPEAKER_00
I just want consent, Monica.
1
SPEAKER_00
I know.
1
SPEAKER_02
I know you do, but your restaurant is my favorite restaurant, so I don t wanna poo-poo it, but that feels like an issue with management.
1
SPEAKER_00
I m gonna stop you right there.
1
SPEAKER_00
If a billion dollar company is doing that, you don t think that the smaller restaurants that are making half as much money as us are?
1
SPEAKER_00
I went to corporate and I bought 400 pens for $300 and gave them out to people because I love pens and I hate that we don t get pens enough.
1
SPEAKER_02
You did that because you were afraid of your bosses.
1
SPEAKER_02
They didn t say, buy pens.
1
SPEAKER_02
You did that because you didn t want pens taken and then for you to then get in trouble, which I totally understand, but I think that s like Stockholm syndrome.
1
SPEAKER_02
No restaurant, especially one of the level and caliber and money that your restaurant has, should be shaming the employee for the pen getting taken.
1
SPEAKER_02
I don t think the hotel, the front desk at the hotel, like who s getting in trouble at the hotel when the patron takes the pen?
1
SPEAKER_02
It s no one s responsibility.
1
SPEAKER_02
I wonder, do we know anybody else who works in restaurants?
1
SPEAKER_02
Because you re in a specific one that I feel like is potentially an anomaly.
1
SPEAKER_02
They have their own culture.
1
SPEAKER_02
Exactly.
1
SPEAKER_02
And so I wonder, like, do you know anyone?
1
SPEAKER_00
I ve had a friend that was a waiter.
1
SPEAKER_00
for a long time and a GM.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think all corporations count their money.
1
SPEAKER_00
Whether it is $400 for pens, whether it s $30 for straws, for its paper napkins, every single dollar has to be accounted for.
1
SPEAKER_00
And a pen is a pen, whether it s a dollar.
1
SPEAKER_02
But I m saying, why aren t they incorporating that into the cost?
1
SPEAKER_02
Like all businesses do.
1
SPEAKER_02
You have sunk costs, and that should be one.
1
SPEAKER_02
It is.
1
SPEAKER_02
Well, then they can t be mad.
1
SPEAKER_00
Well, I am not going to speak for my company.
1
SPEAKER_00
I think that many people at my restaurant take my company for granted.
1
SPEAKER_00
Who cares?
1
SPEAKER_00
They have a lot of money.
1
SPEAKER_00
Let s just take this right.
1
SPEAKER_00
Let s just take these straws.
1
SPEAKER_00
Pens grow on trees.
1
SPEAKER_02
No one says that.
1
SPEAKER_02
I ve never heard anyone say Pens and Crunchies.
1
SPEAKER_00
But now I m taking the corporate stance on this where I think some restaurants are restaurant smart and some restaurants are corporate smart.
1
SPEAKER_00
And I do buy into people lose their ties.
1
SPEAKER_00
They lose their tie clips.
1
SPEAKER_00
They lose their pens.
1
SPEAKER_00
They left them in the car.
1
SPEAKER_00
Like over and over and over again, people are irresponsible.
1
SPEAKER_00
So on top of that, when guests take them, it s annoying.
1
SPEAKER_02
Support for synced comes from open.
1
SPEAKER_02
We ve been talking about this.
1
SPEAKER_02
Breath work is really important.
1
SPEAKER_02
I ve been trying to incorporate it a lot more, especially before bed because I have not been sleeping well.
1
SPEAKER_02
And so I ve been doing the stillness for sleep class, which is five minutes, which is easy because I get really, I feel very, it s very daunting to think about like doing like a 20 or 30 minute meditation or something, but this is quick.
1
SPEAKER_02
It just gets you connected to your breath, and I found it very helpful before bed.
1
SPEAKER_01
I love their yoga classes.
1
SPEAKER_01
I did their morning flow class, and now I m kind of addicted to it every morning because I kind of need it to shake up my morning routine.
1
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, they have a great community of people all doing it together, and it s really nice because there s breath work, meditation, and fitness.
1
SPEAKER_02
So you kind of are getting all the things that you need to start your day or end your day all in one place.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s really, really great.
1
SPEAKER_02
If you want to get on our daily routine, you can get 30 days free of open by visiting withopen.com slash synced.
1
SPEAKER_02
Again, 30 days free by visiting withopen.com slash synced.
1
SPEAKER_02
S-Y-N-C-E-D.
1
SPEAKER_02
We are supported by Curology.
1
SPEAKER_02
Look, skin is everything.
1
SPEAKER_02
It s like a one-to-one correlation to confidence for me anyway.
1
SPEAKER_02
And if you re noticing like things start to happen on your face, acne, aging, it can be all-consuming.
1
SPEAKER_02
And that s why I really, really like Curology because it is a personalized prescription, a skincare program, really.
1
SPEAKER_02
The products are made to address your problem area.
1
SPEAKER_01
What I love is that you literally fill out a quiz, right?
1
SPEAKER_01
You tell them exactly how your skin is because the amount of products that I ve bought thinking that, again, they look great or work great for someone else s skin, and then you try them on yourself.
2
SPEAKER_01
and, you know, your skin reacts to it, or it makes things worse, or it makes you break out, it s actually a great way to actually save money on skincare, because you know that you re getting exactly what s right for you.
2
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For a limited time, you can get your first Curology skincare box for just $5 when you go to curology.com slash synced.
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Go to curology.com slash synced for this free offer.
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That s curology, C-U-R-O-L-O-G-Y dot com slash synced.
2
SPEAKER_02
S-Y-N-C-E-D.
2
SPEAKER_02
Trial is 30 days.
2
SPEAKER_02
Applies only to your first box.
2
SPEAKER_02
Subject to consultation.
2
SPEAKER_02
New subscribers only.
2
SPEAKER_01
I mean, I have a lot of thoughts because I worked at a bar where they weighed the almonds.
2
SPEAKER_01
It was a microbrewery, and so we served almonds and they weighed them so that if you put too much in the bowl, it would come off of you.
2
SPEAKER_01
You gave too many away.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_01
It was a way to kind of...
2
SPEAKER_01
But again, I kind of relate to Jess where there s a certain level of once you re in the culture, you do kind of buy into it.
2
SPEAKER_01
Of course.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ve done that.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
So I remember sometimes my friends, even who worked at other places, they re like, they weigh the food.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like, that s crazy.
2
SPEAKER_01
And then take it out of your check if there s like too much.
2
SPEAKER_01
But I just thought like, oh, no, but almonds are really expensive.
2
SPEAKER_01
And like, they re really good.
2
SPEAKER_01
And like, you have to put in the right amount.
2
SPEAKER_01
And like, it s sort of like if no one takes the pens and everything works, you kind of have to absorb it or else you don t.
2
SPEAKER_02
Well, you can t survive in a culture that you re constantly bucking.
2
SPEAKER_02
I mean, I do think that s true.
2
SPEAKER_02
This isn t a diss on anything.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s just— But Liz, you believe that pens should be allowed to be taken, unless they re personals.
2
SPEAKER_01
If they re personals, you can.
2
SPEAKER_01
Again, hotels, you take it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think that s like a no-brainer.
2
SPEAKER_01
You take all the toiletries or else you re losing money.
2
SPEAKER_01
But in a restaurant, I don t know if I would assume that I can take it.
2
SPEAKER_02
I agree.
2
SPEAKER_02
Hotels, to me, is a no-brainer.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s absolutely part of the cost.
2
SPEAKER_02
But you just disagreed with me on that.
2
SPEAKER_02
What?
2
SPEAKER_00
No, I don t go to hotels as much as you, so I don t know the culture, and I feel like I ve taken
2
SPEAKER_02
You re allowed to, like, they are replacing them daily, but I agree at a restaurant, it s more gray, and I think it might be restaurant to restaurant.
2
SPEAKER_02
Can we agree on that?
2
SPEAKER_00
This mom took three of my pens, and I go, oh, did you see the pens?
2
SPEAKER_00
And the mom was already in the car, and the son was like, I didn t see them.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then I was like, oh, no biggie.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I smiled.
2
SPEAKER_00
Then he came back.
2
SPEAKER_00
He had gone to the car and asked his moms for the pens back.
2
SPEAKER_00
And that didn t make me feel
2
SPEAKER_00
little sad.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
That s not because that is not the responsibility of that kid to not have to manage the mom s pens.
2
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I also just said, did you see the pens?
2
SPEAKER_00
All I did was ask where the pens were.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
Why d she have three pens?
2
SPEAKER_00
Because they split the check.
2
SPEAKER_02
They took all that.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s weird if you re one person taking three pens, but if you split the check and everyone takes the pen, I could see how that could happen.
2
SPEAKER_02
And it would spread.
2
SPEAKER_02
Like, if one person takes it, then the other people think it s okay.
2
SPEAKER_02
Because also, Jess, I forget, does your pen say the name of the restaurant on it?
2
SPEAKER_02
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
It does.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, some don t.
2
SPEAKER_00
It depends.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, it depends.
2
SPEAKER_02
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_02
It depends.
2
SPEAKER_02
All right, well, I just wanted you to be able to speak on this as an expert and someone in the field.
2
SPEAKER_00
I see all sides.
2
SPEAKER_00
I don t think you re wrong.
2
SPEAKER_00
I do think it s a gray area.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I do think, because I have one foot in the door as a trainer and a leader at that restaurant, and also one in the foot of the door where I m just a server and I get it.
2
SPEAKER_00
Wait, can I ask- But I also do see irresponsibility
2
SPEAKER_00
with servers, they separate that themselves.
2
SPEAKER_00
And they say, us and them.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, corporate has that money, or the restaurant can do that, or they can afford it.
2
SPEAKER_00
And it s we can afford it.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s us.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah, I see what you mean.
2
SPEAKER_00
Or of a group where like, no, those pens that you re losing is our money, not their money.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
I mean, it depends on how the company s treating the employees, though.
2
SPEAKER_02
It s top down.
2
SPEAKER_02
You have to make your employees feel like you re a family in order to get that from them.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I see both sides on that too, because yes, I think we re a little bit fear-based at our place, but it also makes people tighten up.
2
SPEAKER_00
I think this manager s hanging out with servers and sleeping with them and being really cool.
2
SPEAKER_00
We re really fun.
2
SPEAKER_00
And oh my God, don t worry about the pens.
2
SPEAKER_00
That guest complaint doesn t matter.
2
SPEAKER_00
We re cool.
2
SPEAKER_00
Let s go to get a beer.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s also toxic.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, there s a balance.
2
SPEAKER_01
Okay, Liz, you re going to ask a question.
2
SPEAKER_01
Well, this has been on my mind.
2
SPEAKER_01
So is it rude to make the server split the bill between four people?
2
SPEAKER_01
Like if four people are having dinner and not just split it four ways, but actually be like, I want to pay for what I ate.
2
SPEAKER_01
No, you can t do that.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, that s a great question, Liz.
2
SPEAKER_00
Right?
2
SPEAKER_01
Because I ve been with a group of people who have a tendency to do this and I always just feel, because I remember being a waitress, I didn t make each person, like you make a table, right?
2
SPEAKER_02
You split it evenly or mainly one person pays and then you Venmo.
2
SPEAKER_02
I mean, you can still end up doing that, right?
2
SPEAKER_02
Where you re splitting it, you pay for what you ve bought, but you don t put that on the server.
2
SPEAKER_00
Well, people do.
2
SPEAKER_00
That s a problem, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Right.
2
SPEAKER_00
I will say, I don t mind it so much.
2
SPEAKER_00
I joke and I say, okay, one year of college, wish me luck.
2
SPEAKER_00
And they always laugh because I have to figure out each person ordered.
2
SPEAKER_00
But it does get tricky if you ve got a spinach dip.
2
SPEAKER_00
Whose does that go on?
2
SPEAKER_00
So what I do is I give them a pen.
2
SPEAKER_00
I go just write one, two, three, four.
2
SPEAKER_00
on all of the items, and then I ll separate it for you.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, that s good.
2
SPEAKER_02
Wait, so some people say, here are our cards.
2
SPEAKER_02
You figure out?
2
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
2
SPEAKER_00
They re putting in the cards.
2
SPEAKER_00
They say, can you just separate it for what we got?
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, my God.
2
SPEAKER_00
That happens.
2
SPEAKER_00
And I look at them, and I go, yeah, I think I can.
2
SPEAKER_00
But some of these things, you guys all share.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
Who has the cheese toast?
2
SPEAKER_00
Who has the cobbler?
2
SPEAKER_00
Who has the spinach chip?
2
SPEAKER_00
Here s a pen.
2
SPEAKER_00
You write down one, two, three, four.
2
SPEAKER_00
And they re like, OK.
2
SPEAKER_01
That s absurd.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ve never seen that.
2
SPEAKER_01
I need to intervene.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s become normal.
2
SPEAKER_01
Someone in the group was like, oh, yeah, my friend s a waitress.
2
SPEAKER_01
And she said, it s not harder.
2
SPEAKER_01
In my head, I was like, it is.
2
SPEAKER_01
But maybe I was like, maybe there s a different system in America, because I never was a waitress here.
2
SPEAKER_00
It is harder.
2
SPEAKER_02
Of course it s harder than running one card or even four cards the same.
2
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
We have an equal pay button.
2
SPEAKER_00
So you just pray for equal pay and it just does it for you.
2
SPEAKER_00
It s really easy.
2
SPEAKER_00
But I had six separate checks and also they wanted to pay for two meals at another table.
2
SPEAKER_00
So I had to go down to the other table and go, what did you order?
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh shit.
2
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
2
SPEAKER_00
So then I had to separate the salmon and the Coke and then move it over to my table.
2
SPEAKER_00
And then I had to separate it six times.
2
SPEAKER_02
Oh, God.
2
SPEAKER_02
Remember Jess?
2
SPEAKER_02
Because he does that joke about the college.
2
SPEAKER_02
Anna, Julia, Jess, and I were at a restaurant, and Jess tried to transfer the joke over, and he said, did you go to college?
2
SPEAKER_02
I did not transfer.
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh my God, I m so embarrassed.
2
SPEAKER_00
First of all, I was a little bummed.
2
SPEAKER_00
Second of all, you didn t understand my joke.
2
SPEAKER_02
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_02
No one would understand that joke with no context.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think what happened is maybe we were probably asking for something and then it was, did you go to college?
2
SPEAKER_00
Oh, my God.
2
SPEAKER_00
No, I m gonna check the tapes because I think it was a four-way split, which is kind of a thing.
2
SPEAKER_00
I m saying, you went to college, right?
2
SPEAKER_00
Or something like that.
2
SPEAKER_00
I knew it.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think it was a straight-up ass.
2
SPEAKER_02
You might have to call Ana.
2
SPEAKER_02
Anyway, okay, that s it.
2
SPEAKER_02
Thank you for weighing in.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_00
I love you guys so much.
2
SPEAKER_02
Love you.
2
SPEAKER_02
Bye.
2
SPEAKER_00
Love you.
2
SPEAKER_01
Tip your server.
2
SPEAKER_01
Don t make them swipe the bill.
2
SPEAKER_01
Oh my God.
2
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_01
So you ve been in that?
2
SPEAKER_01
It s been like a new thing I ve noticed with the group, and I need to stop it.
2
SPEAKER_01
I need to intervene.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ve never.
2
SPEAKER_01
I ve never.
2
SPEAKER_01
We can t make them do that.
2
SPEAKER_02
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
I think at this stage in life, like in college, we did a lot of like the last four digits of the card dash this amount, and we d figure it all out and write it.
2
SPEAKER_02
But now that s ridiculous.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
doing that anymore.
2
SPEAKER_01
We have Venmo.
2
SPEAKER_01
Like one person takes the tip.
2
SPEAKER_01
There s a way to kind of... Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
Wow.
2
SPEAKER_02
Report back on how this goes over.
2
SPEAKER_01
I think if I m firm enough, and because I was in the field at one point, I can use that as like, guys, this is shitty.
2
SPEAKER_01
It s hard when people have different standards of opinion.
2
SPEAKER_02
It all circles back to that.
2
SPEAKER_02
Opinions, but this also is values.
2
SPEAKER_02
Because at a restaurant, there s implied status between the patron and the server.
2
SPEAKER_02
And so if you re taking advantage of the server, to me, that s a values issue.
2
SPEAKER_01
Unless if you think it s as, again, if this lie that it s as easy and someone has told them that and they believe it, then it allows them to- Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_02
think they re doing anything wrong.
2
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
2
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
2
SPEAKER_01
But when I m on a date or with anyone who like does express that, it s really hard.
2
SPEAKER_02
I feel like you re actually pretty good about this.
2
SPEAKER_02
I get pretty codependent in restaurant situations.
2
SPEAKER_02
I am not returning a meal really.
2
SPEAKER_01
Never.
2
SPEAKER_01
No.
2
SPEAKER_01
That surprises me though.
2
SPEAKER_02
But I think I ve seen you not return a meal, but you get specific.
2
SPEAKER_02
Can you replace
3
SPEAKER_00
or can I have this, or can I, you re not annoying, but you re specific about your asks.
3
SPEAKER_00
And I am not.
3
SPEAKER_00
I m like even, okay, so me and you went to, we went to brunch and I was there early.
3
SPEAKER_00
It was a packed place.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I felt a little stressed because the hostess asked, is your full party here?
3
SPEAKER_00
And I said, no, she s on her way.
3
SPEAKER_00
And she said, okay.
3
SPEAKER_00
And she said, do you have the podcast?
3
SPEAKER_00
And she was very sweet.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so she sat me and then I got in my head that if she hadn t known me, she would have said, your whole party has to be here.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I got a little anxious that she was like giving me something.
3
SPEAKER_00
And so I ordered my drink.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then we were waiting for you and I felt, I was feeling anxious and the server came back and I said, I ll order her drink, but I couldn t remember your order.
3
SPEAKER_00
So I ordered what I thought was right, which was matcha latte with regular milk.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then he brought it and then you texted me that it was almond milk and I was like,
3
SPEAKER_00
But I was like, I ll never return that.
3
SPEAKER_00
I was like, I ll drink it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then he came, you know, you arrived, the server came back and you said, I ll have a matcha latte.
3
SPEAKER_00
And he pointed to the one and I said, ah, I messed it up.
3
SPEAKER_00
I gave the wrong order, but I ll drink it.
3
SPEAKER_00
And he was like, no, I ll like, he was happy to replace it.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s true.
3
SPEAKER_00
No, like that s my mistake.
3
SPEAKER_00
And it s my mistake if I ordered the wrong temper.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
3
SPEAKER_00
I just like, I don t feel comfortable asking for specifics at restaurants.
3
SPEAKER_01
If I wasn t not allowed to eat dairy, I would have done it.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t eat meat.
3
SPEAKER_01
And if they put bacon in the thing and I m like, I literally can t eat it.
3
SPEAKER_01
But if I didn t specify it and it said bacon, and I didn t tell them to take it out, I m not going to return it.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so it s happened to me many times where I ll be with someone, I ll be like, oh fuck, there s bacon in this.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then sometimes they ll be like, is everything okay?
3
SPEAKER_01
And I m like, and I will lie.
3
SPEAKER_01
I will be like, everything s great.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like, I m just not that hungry.
3
SPEAKER_01
Can I get it in a box?
3
SPEAKER_01
And then I ll give it to someone or the person I m with.
3
SPEAKER_01
But if I specified it and they said yes, and if it s just a taste thing, I would do it.
3
SPEAKER_01
But if it s something I can t eat, it s just like, I can t.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I think that s better, right?
3
SPEAKER_00
Especially, yes, if you ve specified and something comes out wrong, I think it s totally fine.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s just a weird personal thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
I feel embarrassed.
3
SPEAKER_01
Me too.
3
SPEAKER_01
Me too.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I was at Alcove the other day and just working and this woman next to us, next to me, me and my computer, us, got this plate, some sort of breakfast item, pancake situation.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m not really paying attention, but I m clocking it like they bring it.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then she catches the waiter.
3
SPEAKER_01
She s like, hey, this is like cold.
3
SPEAKER_01
Can you give me a new one?
3
SPEAKER_01
I m already like, oh, God, I would probably never do that.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then the woman brings her back her thing, and she says something else is wrong.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then she brings her back that pancake item, and then she returns it again.
3
SPEAKER_01
She s like, it s still cold.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, my God.
3
SPEAKER_01
And I at that moment, I was like, I m having trouble just being in their vicinity.
3
SPEAKER_01
the courage it would take for me to be able to do that.
3
SPEAKER_00
What if it s just a cold dish?
3
SPEAKER_01
That s what I thought.
3
SPEAKER_01
I was just like, eat it, dude.
3
SPEAKER_01
But then I noticed that the guy behind the counter who was doing the coffees felt very bad and then like brought her a free thing.
3
SPEAKER_01
And then he noticed that she like didn t finish something, didn t eat a lot of it.
3
SPEAKER_01
And she s like, no, no, I m just really not that hungry.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like I just got it to taste it.
3
SPEAKER_01
But this guy was like, would you want a free dessert?
3
SPEAKER_01
Like he gave her this free dessert.
3
SPEAKER_01
So she got rewarded for what I think would just be mortifying.
3
SPEAKER_01
But it stressed me out to just be around it.
3
SPEAKER_00
Support for SYNCT comes from needed.
3
SPEAKER_00
Pregnancy and postpartum are some of the most nutritionally demanding times in a woman s life.
3
SPEAKER_00
I mean, these babies are just, they re sucking everything up.
3
SPEAKER_00
They re sucking everything up.
3
SPEAKER_00
And a mom and her baby s health, now and for years to come, is influenced by her nutrient status.
3
SPEAKER_00
Proper nutrition, getting the proper nutrients, is critical to the fertility journey through postpartum.
3
SPEAKER_00
We know this from experience.
3
SPEAKER_00
like vitamins, the things were taken in.
3
SPEAKER_00
It definitely, for me with Race to 35 and doing two egg freezings, the second time I did it, I had a lot more additional nutrients and it changed the outcome.
3
SPEAKER_00
It like really, really makes a difference.
3
SPEAKER_01
And most prenatal vitamins include bare minimum nutrition based on an outdated guidance and stale research.
3
SPEAKER_01
And we learned all about this in Register 35.
3
SPEAKER_01
All this research happened so long ago.
3
SPEAKER_01
Things haven t been updated and changed.
3
SPEAKER_01
And so we really deserve to thrive, not just survive.
3
SPEAKER_01
And NEADDED offers radically better nutritional products, education, advocacy.
3
SPEAKER_00
So head over to thisisneeded.com and use code SYNC, S-Y-N-C, for 20% off your first month of needed products.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s thisisneeded.com and use code SYNC for 20% off your first month of needed products.
3
SPEAKER_00
We are supported by Quince.
3
SPEAKER_00
I just did a closet clean out and I was generous and I gave my leather jacket away.
3
SPEAKER_00
I gave it to my friend, Amy, and it looks so good on her.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s so cute.
3
SPEAKER_00
People were over yesterday and they were trying it on.
3
SPEAKER_00
Everyone was going crazy for it.
3
SPEAKER_00
They re like, oh my gosh, it s so cute because it s also casual.
3
SPEAKER_00
It has like a fleece hoodie underneath it sort of attached.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s really, really, it s very cool.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re passing it around.
3
SPEAKER_00
You re passing the love around.
3
SPEAKER_00
You know what else they have that I want?
3
SPEAKER_00
I haven t got it yet, but I really want is the packing cubes.
3
SPEAKER_01
Those are a game changer.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
I m so bad at packing.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yes.
3
SPEAKER_01
My favorite thing about Quince is just that the products are high end, like luxury, but not the prices.
3
SPEAKER_01
Exactly.
3
SPEAKER_01
Like they have 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters for 50 bucks, organic cotton sweaters, washable silk tops.
3
SPEAKER_01
They even have 14 karat gold jewelry.
3
SPEAKER_01
And the best part is that all Quince items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands.
3
SPEAKER_01
Indulge in affordable luxury, go to quince.com slash sync for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.
3
SPEAKER_01
That s q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash sync to get free shipping and 365 day returns.
3
SPEAKER_01
quince.com slash s-y-n-c.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay, let s do some questions.
3
SPEAKER_00
Okay, how do you know if it s chivalry or patriarchy?
3
SPEAKER_00
This is from Annie.
3
SPEAKER_00
I work in a very male-dominated workplace.
3
SPEAKER_00
In a recent discussion about a work trip, it was brought up that the vice president of my department wouldn t feel comfortable in a car with myself or other women by themselves.
3
SPEAKER_00
I feel like this is subtle discrimination.
3
SPEAKER_00
This is a relationship business, and the fact that a man could get on one time with the VP in any situation while I can t seems like just another way to limit opportunities.
3
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When I bring it up, my point is quickly dismissed, and I m told I m overthinking it, but I also feel like that s a bit of gaslighting and male privilege.
3
SPEAKER_00
I would love your perspective on navigating this tricky workplace topic. 
3
SPEAKER_00
That s 100% patriarchy.
3
SPEAKER_01
Oh, my God.
3
SPEAKER_01
Can t be in the car?
3
SPEAKER_01
What s wrong with him?
3
SPEAKER_01
He can t be in a car with a woman?
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, he s gonna...
3
SPEAKER_01
needs to fix.
3
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, that s his issue.
3
SPEAKER_00
That s, yeah.
3
SPEAKER_00
It s his issue, but it sucks because he s in power.
3
SPEAKER_00
He s the vice president.
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So he gets to make that decision.
3
SPEAKER_00
And then it is so imbalanced and so unfair that a man just gets that one-on-one time, which makes a huge difference in business to have these like relationships and more time with the guy up top.
3
SPEAKER_00
What s so funny is that
3
SPEAKER_01
He s vice president, and Mike Pence famously, he was vice president, also had a rule where he couldn t have dinner with women or couldn t partake in any kind of after work activity, networking, whatever you call it, with the other gender.
3
SPEAKER_01
You re literally limiting the freedom of the other gender and the opportunities as a cover for trying to avoid sexist encounters.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s like putting this invisible shield between you and women instead of just addressing your own sexism or the misogyny that would lead you to do something wrong.
3
SPEAKER_01
if you were along with a woman.
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SPEAKER_00
It s almost like a kid that says, like, well, I m just not going to do it at all then.
3
SPEAKER_00
If I can t be sexist, then I m just not going to do it.
3
SPEAKER_00
No, the goal is that you just aren t sexist or don t behave in a way that makes women feel uncomfortable.
3
SPEAKER_00
This is really hard.
3
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It sucks because she s brought it up and it s getting dismissed.
3
SPEAKER_00
I don t know what to do about that.
3
SPEAKER_01
I would file an HR complaint.
3
SPEAKER_01
I don t know how big this company is.
3
SPEAKER_00
Against the vice president?
3
SPEAKER_01
I mean, you can, but I...
3
you
3
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I don t know how much that s going to do.
3
SPEAKER_01
Sure.
3
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HR works for the company.
3
SPEAKER_01
It s not like an all be all, and it won t fix everything.
3
SPEAKER_01
But I do think that they also get scared about complaints, and that s something you could, again, file a discrimination suit for, and they re afraid of those things.
3
SPEAKER_01
So I would at least file a complaint and just say, this is a rule.
3
SPEAKER_01
Because again, the fact that it s an official rule actually plays against them.
3
SPEAKER_01
If this was just something that was kind of informally done, it would be harder for you to have a case against them.
3
SPEAKER_01
But if this is an official- Well, it s not.
3
SPEAKER_00
It says, it was brought up that the vice president of my department wouldn t feel comfortable in a car with myself or other women by themselves.
3
SPEAKER_00
It doesn t feel like it s a rule rule.
3
SPEAKER_00
It seems like that s his personal rules, so it won t happen.
3
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, so I would send an email.
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SPEAKER_01
I would just put things in writing, either to the supervisor, not maybe to the vice president, but whoever on the team told you that and be like, I just want to make sure I understood things correctly because this feels...
4
SPEAKER_00
You could even, again, give them the benefit of the doubt and be like, I know this company stands for equality and the promotion and empowerment of women and wouldn t deny them opportunities based on discrimination, so I probably misunderstood.
4
SPEAKER_00
Is there a reason why only men get to ride in the car or whatever?
4
SPEAKER_00
I would just come in from a generous perspective.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I think that s a good way to start.
4
SPEAKER_01
But it sounds like she did this.
4
SPEAKER_01
She said, when I bring it up, my point is quickly dismissed and I told I m overthinking it.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m sure that will be the email response back.
4
SPEAKER_01
I do think putting it in writing is not a bad thing.
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But sometimes, I don t know, this is a demoralizing answer, but I don t think it s going to change there.
4
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I think part of it is
4
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Maybe finding an exit strategy eventually or like understanding your exit strategy and moving to a company where that type of culture doesn t exist.
4
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Because these boys clubs, it s so hard to change from the inside and people, I think, get overwhelmed trying to do that.
4
SPEAKER_01
And maybe what s best for you is to go and find an environment where this doesn t exist.
4
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or is less.
4
SPEAKER_01
I mean, it exists almost everywhere, but where it s less and it s less explicit like this.
4
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And you can even like when you go into your next job interview, I think it s powerful to say, you know, I was at this company and this was part of the culture.
4
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I m wondering if it s part of the culture here because I m not interested in that.
4
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Also, that s like a badass thing to say and I think people will really respect it.
4
SPEAKER_01
But sometimes you have to leave a situation.
4
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You can t hope the situation changes.
4
SPEAKER_01
Right.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, there s two options.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s both, probably.
4
SPEAKER_00
Try and do something.
4
SPEAKER_00
And again, then if you do want to work somewhere else or you are figuring out your plan B, you can be more bold and make complaints.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s not allowed to be retribution, but you can be less worried about that happening if you are creating a contingency plan.
4
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I don t know what her job means to her.
4
SPEAKER_00
There s probably things that she likes about it.
4
SPEAKER_00
Well, of course.
4
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That s why this is hard.
4
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It s not easy to just leave a job and get a new job.
4
SPEAKER_01
That s inherently the problem with this patriarchy, right?
4
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Like, maybe your job s really good, and you re probably being told that you re lucky to be there, and you might be.
4
SPEAKER_01
But it s uncomfortable to say this out loud.
4
SPEAKER_01
You have to choose.
4
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Is it worth it?
4
SPEAKER_01
Because, yes.
4
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put in the complaint.
4
SPEAKER_01
Again, I don t know the culture there.
4
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There are circumstances where I would not feel comfortable doing that.
4
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I know it would come back to me in subtle ways where I just would be like, that s not worth it.
4
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So it s understanding what you re getting, make a pros and cons list, and if it s worth it to you to stay in this environment for your own future and yourself.
4
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then do it with acceptance that this is the culture.
4
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And if it s not, then I think look for a way out.
4
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It doesn t have to be like, tomorrow I m quitting.
4
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It s just develop a strategy for eventual departure.
4
SPEAKER_00
I also think don t take this all on your own or don t put this all on your own shoulders.
4
SPEAKER_00
I do remember I worked at a company where it wasn t that level or sort of explicit rules, but women were getting cut off.
4
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Women s ideas weren t being
4
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taken as seriously.
4
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And what we started doing is we got together as women, not outwardly because of that sexism, but we started just banding together more.
4
SPEAKER_00
And there s women, insert company, dinners, where we would go out once a month, and then we d all get together and talk.
4
SPEAKER_00
And obviously, a lot of these things would come up.
4
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And so then we also just had each other s backs more.
4
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That s nice.
4
SPEAKER_00
I like that.
4
SPEAKER_00
And change the culture together.
4
SPEAKER_00
Because again, male-dominated spaces are hard, especially if women are the minority.
4
SPEAKER_00
But the more there are of you working towards something, the more you can actually shift the culture and make it unacceptable for them to continue doing that.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s one thing if they re getting one question, but if another woman amplifies your question, says, no, actually, I don t think she s overthinking it.
4
SPEAKER_00
It makes me uncomfortable, too.
4
SPEAKER_00
Then they have a problem, and then they can t ignore it or sort of brush it under a rug.
4
SPEAKER_00
So I would find and connect with other women at your office.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, I wonder how many there are.
4
SPEAKER_00
A lot of companies now even have women s networks, like big corporate, sometimes even have established initiatives.
4
SPEAKER_00
But yeah, just even just grab coffee and like go hang out with them and bring it up to them so that you don t feel alone.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, that s a good idea.
4
SPEAKER_01
Okay, great.
4
SPEAKER_01
Oh, God.
4
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
4
SPEAKER_01
How do I get over my husband comparing me to a baboon?
4
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This is from Laurel.
4
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Tonight at dinner, I randomly brought up the topic of, quote, spirit animals.
4
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Granted, I m not Native American and was using it in the more generic sense of what animals share similar traits.
4
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I told my husband his animal was a walrus, studious, nautical, not overtly aggressive, but with a reserved sense of power.
4
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He said mine was a baboon.
4
SPEAKER_01
When pressed to explain, he said baboons are smart and beautiful.
4
SPEAKER_01
He s not a total dummy, as in prophecies.
4
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I explained that I found this deeply offensive.
4
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Baboons are not notoriously liked or seen as attractive or feminine animals.
4
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Plus, I m already a primate, so it was kind of a lazy choice.
4
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He eventually landed on Fox, but the damage was done.
4
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He apologized, but seemed more frustrated with me as if I asked a trick question to intentionally trap him.
4
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I cried in the bathroom when we got home.
4
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I know this is silly, I do, but how do I get over this and not let it damage my relationship or my self-esteem?
4
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Having a hard time just letting go.
4
SPEAKER_00
I feel like this isn t about the baboon.
4
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Walrus seems worse than baboon.
4
SPEAKER_01
They re pretty equally... Yeah, not great.
4
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Not attractive.
4
SPEAKER_01
But look, I think you have to take him at face value.
4
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He says to him, they re smart and beautiful.
4
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It d be one thing if he was like,
4
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You re like a baboon.
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Like, you re, like, stocky and, like, a lot of hair.
4
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And the traits he s associating are positive.
4
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I feel bad saying this to Laurel, but I would feel that you trapped me.
4
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If you asked me specifically, and I gave you my honest opinion, and then you got really upset.
4
SPEAKER_01
Which, by the way, I do this to Dax all the time.
4
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Like, on the show, I m constantly trying to get him to, like, say what animal I am, and say the name that I would be if I was a boy.
4
SPEAKER_01
Like, I m always asking, and then I m always like,
4
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That s a horrible answer, but I can t take it personally because one, I trust that he has me in high regard.
4
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So whatever he s going to say is coming from that place, and he s not there to tear me down.
4
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And I think you should remember that.
4
SPEAKER_00
unless you don t feel that way.
4
SPEAKER_00
If it s touching a nerve in that way, maybe it s touching a nerve that s not really about the baboon.
4
SPEAKER_00
It s about, we don t know judging from your letter, but that there s a suspicion that you have, or an opinion that you have of yourself, that now you re kind of projecting onto him because of the baboon thing.
4
SPEAKER_00
This is what happens when I do it.
4
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I feel ugly, and I want him to prove to me that I m wrong, right?
4
SPEAKER_01
And when he says, chinchilla,
4
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my expectation was that he was, I was going to feel so good after, and then he s just being honest.
4
SPEAKER_01
And that s my issue.
4
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If I felt great, I wouldn t give a fuck what he said.
4
SPEAKER_00
I mean, this is a weird example, but I feel like if I gave an animal to a guy, let s say like, you re like a chipmunk because you re like sweet and like he would, because of masculinity standards, he would take it personally.
4
SPEAKER_00
I wouldn t have thought about it, but I can understand how he would be upset.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I think the reverse is true, where he just didn t think
4
SPEAKER_00
You know, he didn t think it wasn t feminine.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
4
SPEAKER_00
Sometimes I think we also have these disconnects between genders, and if a woman had said that to you, maybe it would actually mean something different than a man.
4
SPEAKER_00
And so, again, knowing what his intention was, I think, is the most important thing.
4
SPEAKER_01
In my experience, these types of questions never go well.
4
SPEAKER_01
They just never do.
4
SPEAKER_01
We need to stop asking.
4
SPEAKER_00
That s true.
4
SPEAKER_00
I did have a friend when she was like, don t ask him a question that you don t, you re not prepared to hear the answer to.
4
SPEAKER_00
And I remember that was like, oh yeah, I gotta sometimes bear some of the responsibility.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, it s a two-way.
4
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Anyway, I m really sorry this did affect your self-esteem, but I think that s something unique.
4
SPEAKER_00
Nicole, yeah, coming from inside the house.
4
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, exactly.
4
SPEAKER_01
Yeah, exactly.
4
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
4
SPEAKER_01
This is the one I was supposed to start with last time because it might be long.
4
SPEAKER_01
Okay.
4
SPEAKER_01
Let s try.
4
SPEAKER_01
My husband isn t the most typically masculine, and sometimes I don t love it.
4
SPEAKER_01
How would you handle this?
4
SPEAKER_01
Anonymous.
4
SPEAKER_01
Hi Monica and Liz, I married a very smart, attractive, funny, and sensitive man.
4
SPEAKER_01
We have a pretty great relationship.
4
SPEAKER_01
He s not typically masculine and has what would be considered feminine interests and hobbies.
4
SPEAKER_01
He s a great conversationalist and gets along with all of my girlfriends.
4
SPEAKER_01
He s sensitive and listens to me.
4
SPEAKER_01
However, sometimes when I see him in an athletic environment with other men and he doesn t fit in, I feel so unattracted to him and a little embarrassed.
4
SPEAKER_01
He s such a sweetie, but he just can t kick it with the guys the way I know he really wants to develop more male friendships.
4
SPEAKER_01
I m the sportier one in the relationship and often find myself outdoing him in almost every sport we participate in, and I m really not that athletic.
4
SPEAKER_01
What would you do if you found yourself feeling embarrassed?
4
SPEAKER_01
I felt so guilty for feeling this way the other day that it made me cry.
4
SPEAKER_01
I really don t want to subscribe to traditional gender stereotypes, but athletic strong men are hot.
4
SPEAKER_01
Also, how can I help him make friends in these environments? 
4
SPEAKER_01
Love the honesty.
4
SPEAKER_01
If you remember, I think I talked about this in the first or second episode, I wanted to call this podcast Mr. Jones after Bradley Cooper s character in Burnt because
5
SPEAKER_00
He was a total dick.
5
SPEAKER_00
He was awful.
5
SPEAKER_00
And it was hot.
5
SPEAKER_00
And the reconciliation of that when you re a feminist woman.
5
SPEAKER_00
is very hard to say, like, wait, this person s doing all the things that I know are wrong, yet I m attracted.
5
SPEAKER_00
That leaves you feeling very disoriented.
5
SPEAKER_00
And to me, that s very similar to this, where you picked a person who meets your values and sometimes that like bumps up with our primal attraction to masculinity.
5
SPEAKER_00
Also, like, go easy on yourself.
5
SPEAKER_00
We ve been programmed to like it.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s going to happen.
5
SPEAKER_00
You re going to bump up against it a little bit.
5
SPEAKER_01
To me, it s akin to, like, your husband liking a porn star, like, you know, or seeing a woman with giant fake boobs and being attracted to that, even though he loves you and he s with you for a million more important reasons than that.
5
SPEAKER_01
I think we give so much meaning to it, and I totally relate to Anonymous, where I freak out about it when this shows up in my life, too, where I ll judge a guy for all kinds of things that our society expects them to be like.
5
SPEAKER_01
I think we give so much meaning to it when men also like these feminine ideals, even though those aren t the women that they choose long-term relationships with.
5
SPEAKER_01
I think it s not as deep as we think it is.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think it s deep if you are embarrassed by your partner, and what you re embarrassed about is something you know in your head goes against your values.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think it s actually extremely deep.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s a very hard thing to reconcile two things happening at once, and when you know to be true versus what your body is feeling.
5
SPEAKER_01
But I guess my point is more of the suffering is coming from her feeling shame about what she s feeling, as opposed to the feeling of, oh, this isn t attractive to me, or, oh, this guy on the court playing with him is more attractive to me in this moment.
5
SPEAKER_01
I think that she s giving it meaning and feeling a lot of shame about the fact that she s feeling it.
5
SPEAKER_01
And to me, that s where the source of the suffering and the discontent is coming from.
5
SPEAKER_01
If she were to accept that these passing
5
SPEAKER_01
feelings exist and will exist, but not give them too much meaning and to not ascribe meaning that then she turns on herself that there s something wrong with her, that she s feeling it.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s what I mean by it s not that deep.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like, we can overthink that and again, create a story about it and like, oh, I must be this horrible person or I must be sexist.
5
SPEAKER_01
And it s like, no, I have like, I m a human being.
5
SPEAKER_01
And I choose differently who I want for a long-term partner than who I want to hook up with in a one-night stand.
5
SPEAKER_00
I think that you can go easy on yourself, understand that this is baked in, and it s extremely normal to feel that way.
5
SPEAKER_00
And remember that we re not all the things.
5
SPEAKER_00
There s no one who has every single piece.
5
SPEAKER_00
There really isn t the perfection of like masculinity meets femininity.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s going to be imbalanced one way or the other, and you made a choice.
5
SPEAKER_00
to choose the personality traits that you like, that s going to get you much further in the long run.
5
SPEAKER_00
So I think you definitely did the right thing.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
And the feelings will come up and you can just feel them.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
And then it s like, it s okay.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s okay.
5
SPEAKER_00
It s okay.
5
SPEAKER_00
Everyone s embarrassed by something also of their partner.
5
SPEAKER_00
Also, the opposite, like when they re so masculine, and I know, I know.
5
SPEAKER_00
I don t want to talk about that though, because I don t want to perpetuate a thing, but like...
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_00
Anyway, no one has all the things, and so we have to understand that.
5
SPEAKER_01
And sports might not be his, you know, I think she asked a second question about how to help him have more male friendships.
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh, with the male friends, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
And sports might not be his thing.
5
SPEAKER_01
The place.
5
SPEAKER_01
And that s fine.
5
SPEAKER_01
There are so many guys who don t like sports.
5
SPEAKER_01
There s so many guys who aren t into it.
5
SPEAKER_01
That s embarrassing, seeing a guy trying to be someone he s not.
5
SPEAKER_01
Whereas if he just leans to like, I don t care about sports.
5
SPEAKER_01
I don t even understand what they re doing.
5
SPEAKER_01
Like, let s, you know, but encouraging him to meet men and meet men, meet different people in different ways.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, it sounds like he wants more male friendships.
5
SPEAKER_00
I have a friend who also wants more male friendships, who s man.
5
SPEAKER_00
And male friendships are really important.
5
SPEAKER_00
So I agree.
5
SPEAKER_00
Pivot the place.
5
SPEAKER_00
Don t put it in a sports environment.
5
SPEAKER_00
Maybe it s like a book club or something.
5
SPEAKER_00
I don t know.
5
SPEAKER_00
Or volunteering at something that there s actual interest in.
5
SPEAKER_01
There s other places.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yes.
5
SPEAKER_01
And other things to bond over.
5
SPEAKER_01
Yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Sports might not be...
5
SPEAKER_00
Especially if you don t care about it.
5
SPEAKER_00
You re not ever going to find a good male friendship there because you guys actually don t share.
5
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
5
SPEAKER_00
You don t have that like and comment.
5
SPEAKER_00
So it won t even work.
5
SPEAKER_00
It won t even work.
5
SPEAKER_00
Exactly.
5
SPEAKER_00
So maybe like diversifying where the friendships happen.
5
SPEAKER_00
Okay.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, I think that s going to be it for today.
5
SPEAKER_00
Did anyone ever call you a name of an animal that you didn t like?
5
SPEAKER_01
Probably.
5
SPEAKER_01
I can t recall.
5
SPEAKER_01
Often I get monkey.
5
SPEAKER_01
I do identify a lot with monkeys.
5
SPEAKER_01
And see, I like that because I think monkeys are playful and intelligent.
5
SPEAKER_01
Again, baboons are fucking smart.
5
SPEAKER_01
Monkeys are my favorite animal, but I ve had that thing.
5
SPEAKER_01
of like asking a question that you just know— you don t want to know the answer to.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s not even just setting someone else in a trap.
5
SPEAKER_01
It s like trapping yourself.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, I mean, there are so many like, who would you date if you weren t dating me?
5
SPEAKER_00
Oh my gosh.
5
SPEAKER_00
Or even the Hall Pass question.
5
SPEAKER_00
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
5
SPEAKER_00
You have to be ready for that.
5
SPEAKER_00
for whatever you re going to hear.
5
SPEAKER_00
You might hear the name of a person who s, well, it could go either way.
5
SPEAKER_00
One who looks just like you, which I think is flattering, but also you could be like, oh, they have a type and that s weird.
5
SPEAKER_00
Or someone who s so different from you and then that feels upsetting because that s your ideal and you don t have your ideal.
5
SPEAKER_00
You know, it s just like, be careful out there.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
5
SPEAKER_01
Once I did ask one of my ex-boyfriends, I was like, so wait, have you ever actually been to a strip club?
5
SPEAKER_01
He went into an entire story about how he fell in love with a stripper, and I was like, dissociating.
5
SPEAKER_01
It was not—it was so hard for me to get it out of my head.
5
SPEAKER_01
And he gave me all these details, and I was like, what have I done?
5
SPEAKER_00
So yeah, just— A lot of it is knowing yourself, like knowing what you can hear and what you can t hear.
5
SPEAKER_00
Right.
5
SPEAKER_00
That s his experience.
5
SPEAKER_00
Totally.
5
SPEAKER_00
Right?
5
SPEAKER_00
And so like, you re not looking back.
5
SPEAKER_00
I m like, okay.
5
SPEAKER_00
Very interesting.
5
SPEAKER_00
All right.
5
SPEAKER_00
Well, great job, everyone.
5
SPEAKER_00
Yeah, these were great questions.
5
SPEAKER_00
We ll see you next week.
5
SPEAKER_00
Bye.